Court filing
Deposition of Ryan Klaassen — Klaassen v. Indiana University
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Indiana |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2021-07-12 |
U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Indiana · No. 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC · Doc. 31-21 · 2021-07-12 · Docket on CourtListener
Summary
Excerpts from the deposition of Ryan Klaassen, taken July 1, 2021 by remote videoconference in Klaassen v. The Trustees of Indiana University, Case No. 1:21-cv-00238, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Indiana, and filed July 12, 2021 as document 31-21. Anne K. Ricchiuto examines the witness for the university, with Melena S. Siebert appearing for the plaintiffs. In his testimony the witness states that he is the lead plaintiff, describes the suit as directed at the university's religious and medical exemption requirements and its policy, says he reviewed the Complaint once after it was filed, and identifies himself as an incoming sophomore. The index lists two deposition exhibits, a signed verification and the Verified Complaint for Declaratory and Injunctive Relief. The filing is 16 pages and closes with an affidavit referring to a transcript of Pages 1 to 62.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
Full text
1 (Pages 1 to 4)
Page 1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA
FORT WAYNE DIVISION
RYAN KLAASSEN, JAIME CARINI, )
D.J.B., by and through his )
next friend and father, )
DANIEL G. BAUMGARTNER, )
ASHLEE MORRIS, SETH CROWDER, )
MACEY POLICKA, MARGARET ROTH, )
and NATALIE SPERAZZA, )
)
Plaintiffs, )
) CASE NO.
-vs- ) 1:21-cv-00238
)
THE TRUSTEES OF INDIANA )
UNIVERSITY, )
)
Defendant. )
DEPOSITION OF RYAN KLAASSEN
July 1, 2021
Remote oral deposition of RYAN KLAASSEN,
commencing at 6:29 p.m., on the above date, before
CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968, Registered
Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter
and Notary Public.
GOLKOW LITIGATION SERVICES
877.370.3377 ph / 917.591.5672 fax
deps@golkow.com
Page 3
1
I N D E X
2
RYAN KLAASSEN EXAMINATION
3
BY MS. RICCHIUTO.............. 4
BY MS. SIEBERT................ 44
4
BY MS. RICCHIUTO.............. 53
5
6
7
E X H I B I T S
8
KLAASSEN DEPOSITION EXHIBIT MARKED FOR ID
9
No. 1 Signed Verification 14
10
No. 2 Verified Complaint for 35
Declaratory and Injunctive
11
Relief
12
13
14
15
16
17
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Page 2
1
APPEARANCES
All Parties Appearing Via Zoom Videoconference
2
3
ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS:
4
THE BOPP LAW FIRM
1 South 6th Street
5
Terre Haute, Indiana 47807
812-232-2434
6
BY: MELENA S. SIEBERT, ESQ.
msiebert@bopplaw.com
7
8
9
10
ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
11
FAEGRE DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP
300 North Meridian Street, Suite 2500
12
Indianapolis, Indiana 46204
317-237-0300
13
BY: ANNE K. RICCHIUTO, ESQ.
anne.ricchiuto@faegredrinker.com
14
15
16
ALSO PRESENT:
17
JOHN KLAASSEN
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19
20
REPORTED BY: CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968
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Page 4
1
THE REPORTER: All parties to this deposition
2
are appearing remotely and have agreed to the
3
witness being sworn in remotely.
4
Due to the nature of remote reporting,
5
please pause briefly before speaking to ensure all
6
parties are heard completely.
7
Counsel will be noted on the
8
stenographic record.
9
Counsel, do you so stipulate to the
10
remote swearing in of the witness?
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MS. SIEBERT: Plaintiffs' counsel does, yes.
12
MS. RICCHIUTO: IU does.
13
(WHEREUPON, the witness was duly
14
sworn.)
15
RYAN KLAASSEN,
16
called as a witness herein, having been first duly
17
sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
18
EXAMINATION
19
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
20
Q. Hi, Ryan. My name is Anne Ricchiuto. I
21
am an attorney representing IU in this lawsuit.
22
Before we begin I just have a couple of more
23
reminders.
24
If any of us have technical issues while
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 1 of 16
2 (Pages 5 to 8)
Page 5
1
we're doing this in this interesting way today, can
2
we make a deal that we'll all, you know, try to get
3
back together as quickly as we can and get our
4
setups fixed and make sure that we can all hear one
5
another. We want everybody to be able to hear and
6
see everything. So, if you have a problem, you let
7
us know and we'll do the same.
8
Does that work for you?
9
A. Yes, that works.
10
Q. How old are you, Ryan?
11
A. I am 19 years old.
12
Q. Okay. And who is that that you have
13
sitting with you?
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A. This is my father.
15
Q. What's his name?
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A. John Klaassen.
17
Q. Okay. So, it's a little bit unusual for
18
you to have someone with you during your
19
deposition. We've agreed that that's acceptable
20
under the circumstances.
21
The only thing I want to ask you is that
22
if you feel like for some reason you want to talk
23
to your lawyer or your dad, I need you to tell me
24
that.
Page 7
1
question that I ask you, I'm going to assume that
2
you understood it.
3
Does that work for you?
4
A. Yep.
5
Q. And the other thing, for first-time
6
deposition givers, is we have got our intrepid
7
Court Reporter up here. At least for me she's on
8
the top of the screen. She is typing down what we
9
say.
10
We have to make sure that we do a good
11
job of speaking to each other audibly so that she
12
can get it down. So, nods and uh-huhs and things
13
that we would all naturally do make her job really
14
hard. I will remind you and you remind me, okay,
15
if we don't, if we are not speaking in a way that
16
she will be able to take it down.
17
Does that work for you too?
18
A. It does.
19
Q. The last thing before we get started
20
that I want to make sure that you know is that your
21
attorney from time to time may decide that she has
22
an objection to a question that I ask you. That's
23
perfectly fine. She is allowed to do that. When
24
she does that, generally you will still answer the
Page 6
1
I'm going to expect that you're not, you
2
know, texting or instant messaging or doing
3
anything that I am not aware of other than talking
4
to me and participating in the deposition.
5
Does that work for you?
6
A. Yes, it does.
7
Q. Okay. Have you ever had your deposition
8
taken before?
9
A. I have not.
10
Q. Okay. I'll briefly go over the process.
11
This is my opportunity to just ask some questions
12
and get a little bit better understanding of your
13
position in this case.
14
So, I know that it's a little bit
15
confusing because your dad is with you, but my
16
questions are for you and I'm interested in your --
17
your specific answers to the questions.
18
Do you have any notes or documents with
19
you?
20
A. I do not.
21
Q. Okay. If at any point I ask you a
22
question that you don't understand, which believe
23
me will happen, please let me know so that I can
24
try to ask you a better question. If you answer a
Page 8
1
question that's been asked unless she specifically
2
tells you not to. Okay?
3
A. Okay.
4
Q. Good job with the nod and then the
5
"Okay." You're a fast learner. It's odd to get
6
used to, for sure.
7
Ryan, what did you do to prepare to be
8
deposed this evening?
9
A. I took part in a meeting with my lawyer
10
as well as I had my father help me prepare, like
11
come up with questions that might be asked of me so
12
I had them in mind.
13
Q. Did you come up with answers that you'd
14
give if you got the questions that you thought you
15
might get?
16
A. I did form general ways to go with it
17
because the questions won't be exact.
18
Q. We'll see, right? Now I'm kind of
19
curious. I kind of want you to tell me like "That
20
was one we guessed."
21
MS. SIEBERT: I feel like we need a buzzer.
22
MS. RICCHIUTO: Right. Like "That was one."
23
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
24
Q. And you know what I forgot to have you
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 2 of 16
3 (Pages 9 to 12)
Page 9
1
do is state your name for the record.
2
A. My name is Ryan Klaassen.
3
Q. Klaassen, is that how you say it?
4
A. Yep, Klaassen.
5
Q. I'm so impressed by double vowels. I
6
was like I can't wait to see how you say it.
7
Okay. Tell me -- so, other than the
8
meeting with your lawyers, was that a Zoom meeting?
9
A. It was on the --
10
Q. Some kind of electronic?
11
A. Yes.
12
Q. Blue Jean?
13
A. Blue Jean, yes. That's what it was.
14
Q. Jim likes Blue Jean. I do know that.
15
So, other than that electronic meeting
16
you had with your lawyers, were there other
17
Plaintiffs present at that meeting?
18
A. There were.
19
Q. Have you ever talked to or met any of
20
the other Plaintiffs outside of that meeting or any
21
other meeting with your lawyers?
22
A. I have not.
23
Q. Tell me, do you know that other people
24
have been deposed in this case?
Page 11
1
A. Well, my -- I had -- I've never really
2
interacted with lawyers before or anything like
3
that. So, initially it was my -- my dad who
4
brought it to Jim, and him and Jim kind of started
5
talking with me as well and we -- initially it was
6
my dad's idea because I'm still kind of becoming an
7
adult and I don't think, hey, I'm going to sue
8
somebody.
9
But this is my case and our case with
10
the other Plaintiffs as well, and that's kind of
11
how it came to be and -- yep.
12
Q. So, when your dad brought the idea to
13
you, was it something that you were immediately
14
interested in doing, suing IU?
15
A. Yeah, it was. It's not something I
16
would like to have to do, but I feel it is
17
necessary in this circumstance.
18
Q. Is there any significance to you
19
being -- you mentioned you're the lead Plaintiff.
20
Is there anything special or significant about
21
that?
22
A. Jim hasn't told me anything about being
23
of any specific importance or anything.
24
Q. Were you the first one signed up, do you
Page 10
1
A. I haven't been told when other people
2
are -- have been taking their depositions.
3
Q. Have you seen a transcript or a list of
4
questions that I've asked to other Plaintiffs?
5
A. I have not.
6
Q. Tell me about the lawsuit that we're
7
going to talk about this evening.
8
A. Well, the lawsuit that's been formed has
9
multiple Plaintiffs. I am the lead Plaintiff. And
10
it is basically describing how the religious
11
exemption and how the extra requirements for
12
exemptions as well as some medical exemptions and
13
generally the policy that IU has enacted right now
14
is -- should not be continued and is illegal.
15
(Clarification requested by the
16
reporter.)
17
THE WITNESS: Illegal.
18
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
19
Q. Okay. Anything else you want to tell me
20
about the lawsuit that we're going to talk about
21
tonight?
22
A. Not particularly. I think I hit the
23
gist of it.
24
Q. How did you come to be a Plaintiff?
Page 12
1
know?
2
A. I am not sure.
3
Q. When you mentioned that your dad brought
4
the issue to Jim, I think you said, is Jim somebody
5
that your family knows?
6
A. Not personally, but we have heard about
7
him from other cases he has done.
8
Q. How have you heard about him?
9
A. I guess other cases he's done. He's
10
worked with other people. Cases have gone to the
11
Supreme Court. Just generally heard about them,
12
read about them, some fairly large rulings.
13
Q. Can you give me any examples of a large
14
ruling?
15
A. Nothing comes to mind at the moment.
16
Q. How long ago was it that your dad
17
contacted Jim about this case?
18
A. I don't know specifically.
19
Q. Have you heard of an organization called
20
IU Families for Choice, Not Mandates?
21
A. I have never heard of that.
22
Q. Have you ever been involved in any other
23
litigation? I think you said no, right?
24
A. Correct.
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 3 of 16
4 (Pages 13 to 16)
Page 13
1
Q. Did you review the Complaint in this
2
case? That's the name for the document that sort
3
of starts the lawsuit.
4
A. I have reviewed that, yes.
5
Q. How many times have you reviewed it?
6
A. I went over it I think only once.
7
Q. Was that before or after it was filed?
8
A. It was after it was filed.
9
Q. Did you look at the exhibits to it?
10
Have you reviewed all the exhibits?
11
A. I did briefly look at them.
12
Q. When was that?
13
A. Probably -- I don't remember
14
specifically.
15
Q. Do you remember signing a document for
16
the lawyers to file with the lawsuit?
17
A. Not in my specific memory at this time.
18
Q. Okay. Do you have access to the
19
software that Melena would have sent you a link to?
20
A. I do. I don't think I got that, though.
21
What was it called?
22
MS. RICCHIUTO: We are going to go off the
23
record for a minute so we can get him set up.
24
MS. SIEBERT: Sure.
Page 15
1
Q. What does that document mean? Why did
2
your lawyers have you sign that?
3
A. I was -- I had to sign it because I had
4
to verify that I have to tell the truth when I am
5
called to testify.
6
I have to obviously tell them I am a
7
resident of Indiana and -- and I have to verify
8
that there are penalties -- that I understand that
9
there are penalties if I lie under oath.
10
Q. Okay. It looks like it's dated June the
11
16th. I will just tell you that the lawsuit was
12
filed on June 21. And you told me that you
13
reviewed the lawsuit after it was filed, right?
14
A. I did.
15
Q. So, you signed this document at a time
16
when you had not yet reviewed the lawsuit. Is that
17
correct?
18
A. That is correct.
19
Q. You are -- am I -- do I have this right,
20
are you an incoming sophomore, Ryan?
21
A. That is correct. I am an incoming
22
sophomore.
23
Q. Did you live on campus last year?
24
A. I did.
Page 14
1
(WHEREUPON, discussion was had off
2
the record.)
3
MS. RICCHIUTO: Back on the record.
4
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
5
Q. Okay. So, Ryan, you have the exhibit
6
sharing platform pulled up in front of you, right?
7
A. I do.
8
Q. And do you see an Exhibit 1 there in the
9
folder?
10
A. I have it pulled up already.
11
(WHEREUPON, Klaassen Deposition
12
Exhibit No. 1 was marked for
13
identification: Signed
14
Verification.)
15
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
16
Q. Okay. So, that's a document that says
17
"Verification" on the top. Have you seen that
18
document before?
19
A. I have, and I do recognize that
20
signature. That's definitely mine.
21
Q. Okay. So, you -- you wrote your name
22
there on the top and then signed your name there at
23
the bottom?
24
A. Correct, I did.
Page 16
1
Q. Which campus do you go to I should say?
2
A. Bloomington.
3
Q. Are you planning to live on campus again
4
this fall?
5
A. I'm not.
6
Q. Where are you going to live?
7
A. I am planning to live off campus near
8
Bloomington.
9
Q. In a different city?
10
A. Off-campus apartments.
11
Q. Okay. So, in -- in Bloomington the
12
city, but off of the IU campus?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. Are you going to be living with friends?
15
A. I am, yeah.
16
Q. Okay. Have you signed a lease for that?
17
A. I have.
18
Q. Are you registered for classes for the
19
fall?
20
A. I am, yes.
21
Q. What do you study? What kind of classes
22
do you take?
23
A. I am -- I am studying for a degree in
24
biochemistry.
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 4 of 16
5 (Pages 17 to 20)
Page 17
1
Q. That is way over my head. So, good for
2
you.
3
Does that mean you're kind of a science
4
guy? Are you into science?
5
A. Very much so.
6
Q. What do you like about science?
7
A. I've always really been into math, but
8
not as much -- I've never -- okay. I never really
9
liked English class as a child, so I kind of went
10
towards the more math, science way. And that's
11
just how I ended up.
12
Q. Ryan, have you been vaccinated against
13
COVID-19?
14
A. I have not.
15
Q. Do you have any plans to be vaccinated
16
against COVID-19?
17
A. Not at this time.
18
Q. Have you ever considered it?
19
A. I have considered it a great deal.
20
Q. What would change your mind and cause
21
you to get the vaccine?
22
A. A few more years of evidence as to the
23
effects of it.
24
Q. The effects of the vaccine on the people
Page 19
1
Q. Can you tell me about that?
2
A. Right now for college-age people such as
3
myself or generally college-age people like myself,
4
people in the same group as me -- I know not all
5
people who go to college are my age.
6
But generally in my age group there is
7
very, very minimal risk to the virus itself to
8
those who are healthy, from what I understand.
9
And for the COVID-19 vaccine or vaccines
10
that are currently out right now, there seems to be
11
some doubt and insecurity about whether it is
12
perfectly safe for the human body to intake.
13
Q. Okay. I want to ask you some follow-ups
14
on that answer.
15
Who has doubt and insecurity about
16
whether it's safe?
17
MS. SIEBERT: Objection; speculation. Go
18
ahead and answer, though, Ryan.
19
BY THE WITNESS:
20
A. Of whom I know, many of my -- some of my
21
co-workers, friends as well as people I may know
22
that reside in other places.
23
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
24
Q. Do you know any medical professionals
Page 18
1
that take the vaccine. Is that what you mean?
2
A. That is correct. The possible effects
3
that we do not yet know.
4
Q. Okay. So, is there any circumstance
5
where you would get a COVID vaccine sooner than a
6
few years from now?
7
A. It is within a realm of possibility.
8
Q. What would need to happen for that to
9
take place?
10
A. Well, I said it is within a realm of
11
possibility. I don't know exactly what would need
12
to happen. But there are a few things. It would
13
have to be affirmed to me, and I am not completely
14
sure within a few-year time span which can or could
15
confirm or affirm those to me.
16
Q. Affirm what to you?
17
A. That it is completely safe and the risks
18
of the vaccine are well below the risks that I
19
would -- that would come to me if I encountered the
20
virus.
21
Q. Do you have an understanding right now
22
as to how you perceive those two risks compared to
23
one another?
24
A. I do have a relative understanding.
Page 20
1
who have doubt or insecurity about whether the
2
vaccine is safe?
3
A. I do.
4
Q. Okay. Who are those people?
5
A. I am not sure it would be right for me
6
to name them.
7
Q. Are they physicians that you know?
8
A. They are.
9
Q. And they have -- have they ever told you
10
anything about whether the COVID vaccine is safe?
11
A. They have never told me.
12
Q. Have you ever had -- how many people are
13
we talking about here?
14
A. One specifically that I know of and
15
others that I have heard about.
16
Q. How have you heard about the others?
17
A. I've heard about them online, sometimes
18
through the news media, through social media,
19
mostly.
20
Q. So, there's just one -- do I understand
21
you correctly there is just one physician that
22
you've talked to that's told you that there is
23
doubt and insecurity about whether the vaccine is
24
safe?
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 5 of 16
6 (Pages 21 to 24)
Page 21
1
A. I have not talked to them personally.
2
Q. Okay. I'm sorry. I thought you said
3
you knew somebody who --
4
A. I knew of somebody.
5
Q. Okay.
6
A. If I didn't make that clear, I
7
apologize.
8
Q. No, no. I might have misunderstood. I
9
might have misunderstood, Ryan. That's fine.
10
Is the medical professional that you're
11
thinking about, is he somebody that's involved in
12
the litigation?
13
A. They are not.
14
Q. Good job. It could be a woman. You got
15
me on that.
16
Okay. So, you also said that
17
college-age people are at very minimal risk from
18
getting sick from the virus. Where does that
19
understanding come from, Ryan?
20
A. It comes from -- my understanding of
21
that -- of people in my age group, which I
22
clarified earlier, are at minimal risk to the
23
virus. It comes from CDC-recorded numbers, which I
24
believe are in the lawsuit and are an exhibit.
Page 23
1
(Clarification requested by the
2
reporter.)
3
THE WITNESS: The lawsuit.
4
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
5
Q. Have you done your own research about
6
the risks to people in your age group from
7
contracting COVID?
8
A. I have.
9
Q. Tell me about that research.
10
A. Well, it was back probably when I -- not
11
probably. Definitely when I was -- it was
12
definitely during second semester of the 2020-2021
13
school year. So, just this past winter-spring,
14
somewhere in there.
15
I -- it was all online research that I
16
did. I've been through a few research papers as
17
well as the CDC website just searching all over
18
there for information, stuff that I could find and
19
calculate in my head.
20
I can't remember anything specific that
21
I did because it was so long ago.
22
Q. What made you decide to do that
23
research?
24
A. Well, there are a lot of different
Page 22
1
Bless you.
2
Q. Thank you. I got the audio off in time
3
so I didn't blow everyone ears off.
4
So, those CDC numbers, Ryan, those are
5
numbers that reflect what?
6
A. I can't remember specifically at this
7
time.
8
Q. Are they numbers about people in your
9
age group that have died from COVID?
10
A. I can't recall specifically.
11
Q. Are they numbers about people who in
12
your age group who have gotten -- have been
13
hospitalized as a result of COVID?
14
A. As I said, I cannot recall specifically.
15
Q. Well, I get to try to see if I can jog
16
your memory. So, you got to bear with me, Ryan.
17
Are they numbers about people in your
18
age group who have been infected with COVID?
19
A. The possibility that it is one of those
20
questions or one of those is medium to high.
21
Q. Do you know where you saw these numbers?
22
A. I have seen them in a variety of
23
locations. I saw them on the CDC website as well
24
as in the lawsuit.
Page 24
1
opinions on what has been going on and the dangers,
2
safeties, things that we can do to combat the
3
virus. There has just been a lot of dissenting
4
opinion on all of that.
5
Q. Are you aware of, if you spent some time
6
on the CDC website, are you aware of what CDC
7
guidance is about vaccination for your age group?
8
A. I have not been on the website that
9
recently to completely understand what the
10
recommendation is.
11
Q. Do you know what CDC's conclusions are
12
about the risks to people in your age group from
13
getting the virus?
14
A. From my understanding, it is very
15
minimal.
16
Q. Do you know anything about the CDC's
17
conclusion about whether the vaccine is safe for
18
people in your age group?
19
A. I don't know specifically.
20
Q. I think you said that you have
21
co-workers. Where do you work, Ryan?
22
A. I work for the Town of Shipshewana.
23
Q. What do you do there?
24
A. I work in the Streets Department as an
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 6 of 16
7 (Pages 25 to 28)
Page 25
1
intern.
2
Q. Is that a summer position?
3
A. It is.
4
Q. Did you -- have you had any other jobs
5
before that?
6
A. I briefly worked at a local grocery
7
store.
8
Q. When was that?
9
A. It was July and part of August while I
10
was in high school after my sophomore year, but I
11
don't remember what year that was.
12
Q. Before the pandemic it sounds like?
13
A. Yes, yes.
14
Q. Okay. When you go to work at the -- for
15
the Town of Shipshewana, are you going into an
16
office building or do you have outdoor duties?
17
A. Well, since I work in the Streets, I
18
work outside most of the time.
19
Q. Okay. Are you required ever to wear a
20
mask in connection with that job?
21
A. I am not.
22
Q. Do you know -- do you live in
23
Shipshewana?
24
A. I do not.
Page 27
1
Q. While you were at school between
2
August of '20 and I guess recently, May of '21,
3
were you required to wear a mask at IU?
4
A. I was, in most places.
5
Q. Where did you not have to wear a mask?
6
A. Outside while I was by myself and/or
7
social distancing.
8
Q. Did you experience any harm from that
9
experience of wearing a mask at Bloomington last
10
school year?
11
A. Not while everyone else was wearing one,
12
no.
13
Q. Okay. What about testing, have you ever
14
been tested for COVID?
15
A. I have.
16
Q. How many times?
17
A. I don't think I can estimate that right
18
at this moment.
19
Q. Is that because the number is high?
20
A. It -- it is because it has been
21
happening since during the pandemic, and that is a
22
while ago.
23
Q. Do you remember the reason when you ever
24
had a first COVID test?
Page 26
1
Q. Do you happen to know if Shipshewana
2
ever required masking at any time since March of
3
2020?
4
A. At one point they did, yes.
5
Q. Let's talk a little bit about your
6
personal experience with masks.
7
You were -- you started your freshman
8
year, if I have this right, sort of five or so
9
months into the pandemic. Does that sound right?
10
A. I did start some months after the
11
pandemic started, that is correct.
12
Q. August of '20, is that when you started
13
college?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. And did you live in campus housing last
16
school year?
17
A. I started out as a freshman in campus --
18
on campus housing, yes.
19
Q. Did you live in it for the whole school
20
year?
21
A. I did.
22
Q. What dorm? Did you live in a dorm?
23
Where did you live?
24
A. I lived in Forest Quadrangle.
Page 28
1
A. My first COVID test was up here at home
2
in preparation to go down to IU.
3
Q. Okay. Have you -- and then were your
4
other COVID tests while you were at IU?
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. Were they required by IU?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. Have you ever had a COVID test that was
9
not required by IU?
10
A. I may have. I do not remember
11
specifically.
12
Q. Let me see if we can help you.
13
Have you ever had a COVID test -- where
14
is home? Where do you live, Ryan? Just what city?
15
I'm not coming to your house.
16
A. Rome City.
17
Q. Okay. So, have you ever had a COVID
18
test when you were in Rome City?
19
A. While I was living here, yes.
20
Q. Was that the test that you needed to go
21
down to IU or something else?
22
A. That was the test I needed to take to go
23
down to IU.
24
Q. Have you ever felt sick, thought you
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 7 of 16
8 (Pages 29 to 32)
Page 29
1
might have had COVID, and gotten a COVID test?
2
A. No.
3
Q. Have you ever had COVID?
4
A. Not to my knowledge.
5
Q. Have you ever had COVID symptoms?
6
A. There are a wide variety of symptoms
7
that could be -- that could be portrayed as COVID
8
symptoms. So, it is possible.
9
Q. Has there been a time since March of
10
2020 where you specifically suspected that you had
11
COVID?
12
A. No.
13
Q. Has anyone in your household had COVID
14
since March of 2020?
15
A. Yes.
16
Q. Did that person or persons get tested
17
for COVID at that time?
18
A. Yes.
19
Q. And those tests were positive?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. How many members of your household?
22
A. Three.
23
Q. How many people live there total?
24
A. Four.
Page 31
1
because you're just a busy guy when you're in
2
Rome City?
3
A. I am currently a very busy guy at the
4
moment.
5
Q. At the different times that the people
6
in your household had COVID, positive COVID tests,
7
did your family quarantine from others?
8
A. Yes.
9
Q. Does that mean that you stayed in your
10
house?
11
A. I did stay in my house and they stayed
12
in the house. Well, one of them had COVID while
13
they were not at home, and they did not return
14
until they were done with it.
15
Q. Okay. The tests that you had while you
16
were a student at IU for COVID that they required
17
you to have, how were those tests performed?
18
A. They were a spit test where you would
19
spit in a vial up to a certain line and then you
20
would seal it, sanitize it and deposit it in the
21
tray after injecting a solution that I don't
22
remember what it was.
23
Q. So, nothing for those tests, if I
24
understand them correctly, nothing goes like into
Page 30
1
Q. So, it sounds like at that time, maybe
2
the rest of the people in your household tested
3
positive for COVID. You did not. Were you
4
residing with those three people at the time or
5
were you in Bloomington?
6
A. They were not all at the same time.
7
Q. Okay. So, at different times three
8
people in your household have had positive COVID
9
tests. Do I have that right?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. Okay. Did any of those positive COVID
12
tests occur while you were living in the home with
13
those other three people?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. And did you get tested at that time?
16
A. I did not.
17
Q. Did you wear a mask in your home at that
18
time?
19
A. I did not.
20
Q. Did your family members who had been
21
diagnosed with COVID wear a mask in the home?
22
A. I don't know because I was rarely ever
23
home.
24
Q. Because you were at Bloomington or
Page 32
1
your body, is that right?
2
A. Correct.
3
Q. Did you experience any harm as a result
4
of those number of COVID tests that are too many to
5
count?
6
A. They're not too many to count I'm sure,
7
but I don't remember when or where all of them were
8
or how many there were at this moment.
9
And I blanked on your question. What
10
was your question?
11
Q. No, you were correcting me on something
12
else.
13
My question was, have you experienced
14
any harm as a result of those COVID tests?
15
A. Physical harm, no. You can argue that
16
it took a long time because there were a lot of
17
people in the lines, yet I had to walk there.
18
Testing facilities were not generally close to my
19
dorm.
20
Q. Did you get to choose when you got
21
tested?
22
A. I did.
23
Q. Other than taking up time, any other
24
harm that you experienced as a result of being
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 8 of 16
9 (Pages 33 to 36)
Page 33
1
COVID tested at IU last semester?
2
A. Nope.
3
Q. Or last year I should say. Last school
4
year.
5
A. Still no.
6
Q. You had -- sorry. What did you say?
7
A. I said still no, just to clarify.
8
(Clarification requested by the
9
reporter.)
10
BY THE WITNESS:
11
A. Still no, I have not.
12
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
13
Q. Ryan, the Complaint in this lawsuit, and
14
I'm happy to show it to you if you'd like to see
15
it, it alleges that you have a sincerely held
16
religious objection to receiving the COVID vaccine.
17
Is that accurate?
18
A. That is accurate, yes.
19
Q. And you have been granted a religious
20
exemption from taking the vaccine to attend class
21
at IU. Is that correct?
22
A. I have, correct.
23
Q. So, you understand that that means that
24
you may move to Bloomington and attend classes in
Page 35
1
and that will be the Complaint.
2
(WHEREUPON, Klaassen Deposition
3
Exhibit No. 2 was marked for
4
identification: Verified Complaint
5
for Declaratory and Injunctive
6
Relief.)
7
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
8
Q. And we will want to look at -- you can
9
look at any part of it that you want to, Ryan. I
10
will tell you that the paragraphs that I'm looking
11
at that are specifically about you are on page 40,
12
and they are paragraphs 180 and 181.
13
You've seen this document before, I
14
gather?
15
A. I have.
16
Q. So, we just talked about the facts that
17
are contained in paragraph 180, that you have an
18
exemption for the vaccine; and then the paragraph I
19
was reading from is 181, that you object generally
20
to the extra requirements of masks and testing.
21
Are the objections that you have to
22
masking and testing, are those religious
23
objections?
24
A. They're not.
Page 34
1
person without being vaccinated, correct?
2
A. Correct.
3
Q. There are also allegations in the
4
Complaint about, what it says, "extra requirements
5
of masks and testing applied to him." That's you.
6
"He" -- and you can look at this document if it
7
would help you.
8
"He objects to these extra requirements
9
given their unreasonableness and the extremely
10
minimal risk of COVID to those in his age group."
11
MS. SIEBERT: Anne, I'm sorry. Can I
12
interrupt?
13
MS. RICCHIUTO: Yes.
14
MS. SIEBERT: I don't see that exhibit.
15
MS. RICCHIUTO: I didn't mark it, but I can.
16
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
17
Q. Ryan, would you like to see it?
18
MS. SIEBERT: Would you mind just so he can
19
pull it up.
20
MS. RICCHIUTO: Yes.
21
MS. SIEBERT: Ryan, after she does this, you
22
may just have to hit refresh and then another
23
exhibit should pop up that you could open.
24
MS. RICCHIUTO: And that will be Exhibit 2,
Page 36
1
Q. Okay. What are your objections to masks
2
and testing at IU?
3
A. For the objection to masking, it
4
would -- to me, it would be equivalent to putting a
5
mark on me because I would be one of the only --
6
not one of the only.
7
I would be one of the minority of people
8
wearing masks, and that would -- that would bring
9
in a possibility of being discriminated against
10
because I have to wear a mask and that would let
11
people know that I have not been vaccinated.
12
Q. How would it let people know that?
13
A. I have a very unique physical signature
14
on my face.
15
Q. Well, but IU doesn't have a prohibition
16
on people who are vaccinated wearing a mask, does
17
it?
18
A. It does not.
19
Q. So, you can't tell by looking at
20
someone, at Bloomington or anywhere, who is wearing
21
a mask whether they have or haven't been
22
vaccinated, can you?
23
A. People like to assume.
24
Q. What people?
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 9 of 16
10 (Pages 37 to 40)
Page 37
1
A. Human race.
2
Q. So, do I understand you to be testifying
3
that you believe that if you wear a mask in
4
Bloomington that people will assume that you're not
5
vaccinated?
6
A. That is what I believe.
7
Q. And then I think you said that there's a
8
possibility of what?
9
A. Discrimination.
10
Q. By whom?
11
A. Those who assume that I am not
12
vaccinated, correctly so, and that I may be
13
harassed as a result.
14
Q. Why would people assume that you're not
15
vaccinated?
16
A. Because I have a mask on and most of the
17
people who have masks on -- I can't assume that.
18
But people with masks on at IU in the fall may be
19
assumed to not have the vaccine.
20
Q. May be assumed by whom?
21
A. Anybody on an IU campus at any moment in
22
time.
23
Q. Okay. And that you also may be assumed
24
to be somebody who's vaccinated but has a family
Page 39
1
should be vaccinated?
2
A. I think that is a fair assumption, yes.
3
Q. And that it's possible that those people
4
could harass other people who have been vaccinated?
5
A. I suppose that is true, yes.
6
Q. When you said that you're aware of
7
instances of people that have been harassed, are
8
those personal experiences that you've had?
9
A. They are not.
10
Q. Are they people that you know of
11
personally?
12
A. They are not.
13
Q. What are the instances -- where is the
14
information coming from in terms of instances of
15
people that have been harassed for not being
16
vaccinated?
17
A. This is mostly things that I see online
18
while I'm perusing the World Wide Web.
19
Q. Social media or something else?
20
A. Social media. I would like to say news
21
media as well, but I cannot say for sure on the
22
news media.
23
Q. Who are you concerned is going to harass
24
you, Ryan? Not like their name, Joe. But like
Page 38
1
member in a really high risk category. Is that
2
also a fair assumption when you see somebody
3
wearing a mask?
4
A. Can you repeat that?
5
Q. I'm trying to think of other reasons. I
6
think your testimony seems to be that everyone who
7
sees you is going to assume that you're not
8
vaccinated. Is that your belief?
9
A. Not everybody who sees me will assume I
10
am not vaccinated, but some people will most
11
likely; and there is a risk that goes with that
12
that I may be harassed because of it.
13
Q. Why would someone harass you for not
14
being vaccinated?
15
A. There have been instances of people -- I
16
can -- I don't recall specifically, but there have
17
been instances of people who have been harassed
18
because of not being vaccinated.
19
And there -- and there are some people
20
that believe everybody needs to be vaccinated and
21
are willing to harass people and annoy the heck out
22
of them until they get it.
23
Q. Do you think it's fair, Ryan, that there
24
are also some people that believe that nobody
Page 40
1
professors or the person at the lunch counter or
2
who are you concerned is going to harass you for
3
wearing a mask?
4
A. I am not concerned they are going to
5
harass me for wearing a mask. I am concerned they
6
are going to harass me because I am not vaccinated
7
and they assume that I am not vaccinated.
8
Q. Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
9
Who are you concerned could do that?
10
A. I am concerned professors may do that.
11
I am concerned that some students may do that as
12
well and possibly other staff.
13
Q. Is there a difference in your mind
14
between -- I think you said discrimination and
15
harassment. Are those different or the same to
16
you?
17
A. They are different but could be linked
18
together in some instances.
19
Q. What kind of discrimination are you
20
concerned that you might experience from not being
21
vaccinated?
22
A. Professors, albeit they shouldn't, might
23
slip in a bad grade here or there on a paper that
24
they grade. Students -- that would be
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 10 of 16
11 (Pages 41 to 44)
Page 41
1
discriminatory.
2
Students might physically, emotionally
3
and on social media harass me for not being
4
vaccinated. And the same for students goes for
5
other staff and even professors as well.
6
Q. Were you subject to any discrimination
7
or harassment last year at Bloomington related to
8
COVID precautions?
9
A. I was not.
10
Q. Why do you have a concern that that
11
would happen this year?
12
A. That is because much less people on
13
campus will be wearing masks, classes will be --
14
classes can be in person and will mostly be in
15
person, so you will have face to face with
16
professors, students alike, whether you make
17
friends with them or enemies.
18
Q. Anything else?
19
A. No.
20
Q. Is there any other harm that you believe
21
you will experience if you wear a mask and have
22
COVID tests this fall at Bloomington?
23
A. No.
24
Q. What are your plans with respect to
Page 43
1
Q. Are you aware of schools that don't
2
require any combination of those things?
3
A. I am.
4
Q. Can you give me an example?
5
A. Hillsdale College does not require the
6
vaccine, masking or asymptomatic testing.
7
Q. So, is that something you've looked
8
into, other options?
9
A. My family and I have been looking into a
10
few other options, yes.
11
Q. But you might -- you might still go to
12
Bloomington as planned this fall, is that right?
13
A. That all depends on the injunction and
14
the outcome.
15
Q. Well, if it's -- if your injunction is
16
granted, I assume you're going. Is that fair?
17
A. That is the plan.
18
Q. Okay. And if the injunction is denied,
19
it sounds like you might go and you might not. You
20
just don't know yet?
21
A. Correct.
22
MS. RICCHIUTO: Just give me one second, Ryan.
23
I think that can be all the questions
24
that I have for now, Mr. Klaassen. Melena might
Page 42
1
August if this injunction is not granted?
2
A. I am unsure about that.
3
Q. What does it depend on?
4
A. I'd have to discuss it with my family on
5
what I might do.
6
Q. Are you registered for classes? I think
7
you said yes, right?
8
A. Yes, I am registered for classes.
9
Q. And you've got an apartment or some kind
10
of lease, right?
11
A. Correct.
12
Q. Are you considering withdrawing from IU
13
if this injunction is not granted?
14
A. I am considering that.
15
Q. If you did withdraw from IU, what would
16
you do instead?
17
A. Since it is a bit late to be
18
transferring schools, at least in -- from my view,
19
from my point of view, I would find a job and work
20
until the next school year comes or maybe semester
21
and transfer to another school.
22
Q. Would that be a school that doesn't
23
require masking or testing?
24
A. Or the vaccine.
Page 44
1
have questions for you, and then I'll warn you if
2
she does, I probably do. And it's a whole thing.
3
We never tell anybody to expect it,
4
Melena, but we just keep going.
5
MS. SIEBERT: I know. Surprise.
6
Ryan, I do just have a couple
7
follow-ups, and then we'll see where we go from
8
there.
9
EXAMINATION
10
BY MS. SIEBERT:
11
Q. First, do you still have the Complaint
12
up in front of you, Ryan?
13
A. I do, yes.
14
Q. When you look at paragraphs 180 and 181,
15
are the facts that are stated in there in regards
16
to you, are they accurate?
17
A. They are.
18
Q. Do you recall looking either at these
19
specific paragraphs or discussing about the facts
20
in those paragraphs before this Complaint was
21
filed?
22
A. I do.
23
Q. Okay. So, I'd like you, if you could,
24
to turn back to the verification page, which was
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 11 of 16
12 (Pages 45 to 48)
Page 45
1
Exhibit 1.
2
A. Yep.
3
Q. Okay. And I just -- I want to clarify;
4
and if this is inaccurate, please just let me know.
5
Paragraph 3 of the verification, how I
6
interpret this is that you're verifying that the
7
factual statements in the Complaint that concerned
8
you are true and correct?
9
A. Um-hmm.
10
Q. Okay. So, did you review those facts
11
that were in the Complaint before you signed this
12
verification form?
13
A. I did.
14
Q. Okay. So, earlier when you testified
15
that you did not read the Complaint before it was
16
filed, what did you mean by that?
17
A. I didn't personally read it, but both my
18
parents -- my parents had read it and had talked
19
with me about it.
20
Q. Okay. But you did read the facts that
21
regarded you?
22
A. I did not physically read them before I
23
signed.
24
Q. Okay. But you knew what they -- you
Page 47
1
BY THE WITNESS:
2
A. I do think that is a possibility.
3
BY MS. SIEBERT:
4
Q. Could you describe those or what the
5
possibilities might be there?
6
A. Well, the biggest thing that comes to
7
mind is having trouble making social connections
8
with professors and students and staff down at IU.
9
It might become a barrier -- it might impose a
10
barrier between me and making connections.
11
Q. Okay. I believe you testified that most
12
of your classes that you're signed up for are
13
scheduled to be in person. Is that true?
14
A. That is correct.
15
Q. For this fall semester?
16
A. That is correct.
17
Q. How do you think wearing a mask would
18
impact in-person classes for you personally?
19
A. Well, having to wear a mask inside
20
brings about the possibility of discriminations and
21
harassments that I had put forth beforehand.
22
But one class specifically that I am
23
taking, marching band, that would have a huge
24
impact on what I could do because I would have to
Page 46
1
were told what they were. Clarify for me what
2
happened there.
3
A. My parents had read the document over a
4
few times at that point and they had discussed with
5
me what it meant for me and what I was -- what --
6
what went into the suit.
7
Q. Okay. So, you were comfortable at that
8
point that you could verify that those facts were
9
true?
10
A. That is correct.
11
Q. Okay. All right.
12
MS. SIEBERT: And bless you, Anne. I saw you
13
sneeze again.
14
BY MS. SIEBERT:
15
Q. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that.
16
Thank you, Ryan.
17
Anne had asked you earlier about what
18
kind of harms you might have from the masks. Do
19
you recall her asking you that, from wearing a
20
mask?
21
A. I do.
22
Q. Okay. Do you think you would suffer any
23
psychological harms from wearing the mask?
24
MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection; leading.
Page 48
1
play an instrument and I can't do that with a mask
2
on. Or it -- let me clarify. It impairs my
3
ability to play.
4
Q. What do you play?
5
A. I play the trumpet.
6
Q. That was what my husband played. We met
7
in marching band in college. So, you are talking
8
to a former band geek here. So, good for you.
9
How does that even work? Is there an
10
exception? Do you play the trumpet through --
11
through the mask?
12
A. Well, for what we did for the fall of
13
2020 is we started off by using those disposable
14
masks, not the fabric ones.
15
Q. Okay.
16
A. That -- and we would cut a slit into the
17
middle of them and put our trumpet through them.
18
It didn't seem very effective.
19
Q. So -- I'm sorry. So, the -- was it --
20
I'm so sorry.
21
So, is it your understanding that the
22
point of a face mask during the pandemic is that
23
they are supposed to slow the spread of a
24
respiratory virus?
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 12 of 16
13 (Pages 49 to 52)
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1
A. That is what has been told.
2
Q. Okay. Do you think that cutting the
3
slit in a face mask lessens the effectiveness of a
4
face mask in spreading -- a potential spread of a
5
respiratory virus?
6
A. Pretty much so.
7
Q. Okay. Over the past year, have you had
8
conversations with people about COVID in general at
9
IU?
10
A. I have.
11
Q. Okay. That was an assumption I think we
12
can make about everyone, but just thought I'd ask.
13
What would you say in general from your
14
observation is the culture and attitude on IU's
15
campus toward people who might share similar
16
beliefs to you or to your beliefs about COVID and
17
the masking effectiveness and the vaccines and all
18
of that?
19
MS. RICCHIUTO: Object to form, vague,
20
compound.
21
BY MS. SIEBERT:
22
Q. Okay. Let me try and make that a better
23
question, Ryan.
24
In general what would you say based upon
Page 51
1
manner.
2
Q. Do you have any problem with people who
3
choose to take the vaccine?
4
A. I have no issue. I have no quarrel with
5
anybody who decides to take it.
6
Q. Have you had any conversations or
7
observed a culture on IU specifically over the past
8
school year that leads you to believe that people
9
who choose to take the vaccine would be looked down
10
upon?
11
MS. RICCHIUTO: Object to form.
12
BY THE WITNESS:
13
A. Can you repeat that, please?
14
BY MS. SIEBERT:
15
Q. Have you observed anything -- I may be
16
rephrasing this.
17
Over the past year on IU's campus, have
18
you observed anything that would lead you to
19
believe that people who choose to take the COVID
20
vaccine will be looked down upon?
21
A. Not to my recollection.
22
Q. Have you observed anything on IU's
23
campus over the past year that leads you to believe
24
that people who choose or refuse to take the
Page 50
1
your observations are the culture and attitude on
2
IU's campus about -- toward people who don't want
3
to wear a mask?
4
A. In general, it -- it's kind of -- it's a
5
split decision.
6
There are people who -- there are people
7
who absolutely rebuke anyone who doesn't -- or they
8
did in the 2020-2021 school year. There are people
9
that would absolutely rebuke anyone who didn't wear
10
a mask anywhere, even if it was outside by
11
yourself. There were certainly people who would do
12
that. And there were people who would do the same
13
thing if you did wear a mask outside.
14
But I think as we come into this
15
2021-2022 school year, one side of those, which is
16
the side of -- I'm sorry. I'm trying to think this
17
through in my own head right now.
18
Q. Please, take your time. You're fine.
19
A. I think the side of the spectrum where
20
people would rebuke you for anything if you did
21
anything without a mask at all would -- I -- I
22
firmly believe that they would come down on the
23
people who don't have their vaccines and would
24
harass and discriminate against them in the same
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1
vaccine will be looked down upon?
2
MS. RICCHIUTO: Object to form.
3
BY THE WITNESS:
4
A. I have seen some notions that might lead
5
you to think that, yes.
6
BY MS. SIEBERT:
7
Q. Can you tell me a little bit more about
8
that?
9
A. Specifically in the marching band, the
10
Marching Hundred that I took part in last fall,
11
fall of 2020, there was a lot of -- there's a lot
12
of hesitancy to do anything without a mask on. We
13
all had to completely change the way they've done
14
things in the past just to be able to do what we
15
were doing.
16
And I know there have been some
17
interactions within the instrumental groups that --
18
of a person harassing someone or voicing their
19
opinion upon them saying that they don't want to
20
take the vaccine.
21
Q. Just out of curiosity, were you guys
22
able to march last year during halftime at football
23
games?
24
A. During halftime, no. We recorded our
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 13 of 16
14 (Pages 53 to 56)
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1
halftime shows.
2
Q. Okay. And then did they just play them
3
on like the Jumbotron or whatever during football
4
games?
5
A. I never got to see it on there. So, I
6
really don't know.
7
MS. SIEBERT: Okay. All right. I don't have
8
any other non-band-related questions. So --
9
MS. RICCHIUTO: I just have a couple, and two
10
of them are band-related, so I'll start with those.
11
FURTHER EXAMINATION
12
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
13
Q. It sounds to me, Ryan, like there were a
14
bunch of changes last year to the way that -- the
15
way that marching band typically would operate.
16
Does that sound accurate?
17
A. That does sound accurate.
18
Q. Do you attribute those changes to
19
anything except for an unprecedented pandemic that
20
we were all trying to work through the best we
21
could?
22
A. I believe that the choices that were
23
made were -- some of the choices that were made to
24
prepare for that were unprecedented with what we
Page 55
1
as an incoming freshman at that point. But it was
2
a change from what had happened in the past,
3
attested to by other members of the band that I had
4
talked to and gotten to know.
5
More of my life was spent at home during
6
the early stages of the pandemic. I became less
7
active.
8
Marching band that I did in my high
9
school did change. We didn't do any parades, and
10
we -- the Indiana State fair ended up being
11
canceled. So, we could not participate in the Band
12
Day competition there as well. That was canceled
13
partway through our marching band season.
14
Q. And those differences that you
15
experienced last year, those are all attributable
16
to the existence of the pandemic, correct?
17
A. Correct.
18
Q. You said you were planning to take
19
marching band again this fall. When you registered
20
for that class, were you asked whether you had been
21
or would be vaccinated before class starts?
22
A. I don't recall.
23
Q. You think you might have been asked
24
specifically in connection with your band
Page 54
1
were facing at that point in the pandemic.
2
Q. Let me ask it a different way.
3
I think you said something about they
4
changed the way that things were done with respect
5
to band. Is that right?
6
A. That is correct.
7
Q. Were there any changes that were made to
8
the way that things are done that were not
9
attributable to just the existence of the pandemic
10
generally?
11
A. It could be -- it -- it depends on
12
everybody's opinion. It could be argued that there
13
were some changes that were attributed -- not
14
attributed to the pandemic, but you could argue the
15
opposite way as well.
16
Q. Was band the only thing that changed for
17
you during the pandemic or did you experience
18
changes to other aspects of your life that you were
19
used to?
20
A. Classes that I was taking became all
21
online, which is a form of teaching that I do not
22
like at all.
23
Band didn't change for me because I had
24
never participated in the Marching Hundred before
Page 56
1
registration whether you had been vaccinated?
2
A. As I said, I don't recall.
3
Q. Has anybody contacted you on behalf of
4
the band and said that you will not be able to
5
participate in the band if you do not get
6
vaccinated?
7
A. Nobody has contacted me from the band
8
and said that.
9
Q. Okay. You talked about a concern that
10
wearing a mask could be a barrier to making
11
connections with others I think you said. Do you
12
remember saying that to Melena?
13
A. I do recall saying something similar.
14
Q. Okay. Last year when you were on campus
15
and you had to wear a mask, was that a barrier to
16
making connections with others?
17
A. It was not because we all had to. We
18
all had to wear masks.
19
Q. So, you believe that your experience
20
wearing a mask this fall will be different from
21
your experience wearing a mask last fall. Is that
22
correct?
23
A. That is correct.
24
MS. RICCHIUTO: I think that's all the
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 14 of 16
15 (Pages 57 to 60)
Page 57
1
questions that I have.
2
MS. SIEBERT: I don't have any more either.
3
(Time noted: 7:43 p.m.)
4
FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NAUGHT
5
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7
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10
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13
14
15
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19
20
21
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Page 59
1
INSTRUCTIONS TO WITNESS
2
3
Please read your deposition over
4
carefully and make any necessary corrections. You
5
should state the reason in the appropriate space on
6
the errata sheet for any corrections that are made.
7
After doing so, please sign the errata
8
sheet and date it.
9
You are signing same subject to the
10
changes you have noted on the errata sheet, which
11
will be attached to your deposition.
12
It is imperative that you return the
13
original errata sheet to the deposing attorney
14
within thirty (30) days of receipt of the
15
deposition transcript by you. If you fail to do
16
so, the deposition transcript may be deemed to be
17
accurate and may be used in court.
18
19
20
21
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Page 58
1
I, CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968,
2
Registered Professional Reporter and Certified
Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify:
3
That previous to the commencement of the
examination of the witness, the witness was duly
4
sworn to testify the whole truth concerning the
matters herein;
5
That the foregoing deposition transcript
was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter
6
reduced to typewriting under my personal direction
and constitutes a true record of the testimony
7
given and the proceedings had;
That the said deposition was taken
8
before me at the time and place specified;
That the reading and signing by the
9
witness of the deposition transcript was agreed
upon as stated herein;
10
That I am not a relative or employee or
attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of
11
such attorney or counsel for any of the parties
hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in
12
the outcome of this action.
13
__________________________________
14
CORINNE T. MARUT, Certified Reporter
15
(The foregoing certification of this
16
transcript does not apply to any
reproduction of the same by any means, unless under
17
the direct control and/or supervision of the
certifying reporter.)
18
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21
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PAGE LINE CHANGE
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REASON: ____________________________
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-21 filed 07/12/21 page 15 of 16
16 (Pages 61 to 62)
Page 61
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA
2
FORT WAYNE DIVISION
3
RYAN KLAASSEN, et al., )
4
)
Plaintiffs, )
5
) CASE NO.
-vs- ) 1:21-cv-00238
6
)
THE TRUSTEES OF INDIANA )
7
UNIVERSITY, )
)
8
Defendant. )
9
AFFIDAVIT
10
I, RYAN KLAASSEN, the undersigned
11
affiant, being first duly sworn, on oath say that
the testimony given at my deposition at the time
12
and place aforesaid is the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, and that I have read the
13
foregoing transcript consisting of Pages 1 to 62
inclusive, and do subscribe and make oath that the
14
same is a true, correct, and complete transcript of
my deposition so given as aforesaid, and includes
15
changes, if any, so made by me.
16
FURTHER AFFIANT SAITH NAUGHT.
17
_____________________________
18
AFFIANT, RYAN KLAASSEN
19
20
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me
21
this day of , A.D. 20 .
22
_____________________________________
23
Notary Public
24
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____ ____ ____________________________
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