Court filing
Deposition of Margaret Roth — Klaassen v. Indiana University
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Indiana |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2021-07-12 |
U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Indiana · No. 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC · Doc. 31-27 · 2021-07-12 · Docket on CourtListener
Summary
Excerpts from the remote oral deposition of plaintiff Margaret Roth, taken July 1, 2021 in Klaassen v. The Trustees of Indiana University, No. 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Indiana, Fort Wayne Division, and filed July 12, 2021 as Doc. 31-27. The transcript records examination by Ms. Ricchiuto for the university and by Ms. Siebert for the plaintiffs, with an index listing two marked exhibits, a signed verification and the verified complaint for declaratory and injunctive relief. The deponent is questioned about how she came to join the lawsuit, her registration at the Bloomington campus, whether she would attend if the injunction were not granted, and the sources of her stated concerns about the COVID-19 vaccine. The excerpt closes with a signed affidavit page and a lawyer's notes page. The docket copy is 16 pages.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
Full text
1 (Pages 1 to 4)
Page 1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA
FORT WAYNE DIVISION
RYAN KLAASSEN, JAIME CARINI, )
D.J.B., by and through his )
next friend and father, )
DANIEL G. BAUMGARTNER, )
ASHLEE MORRIS, SETH CROWDER, )
MACEY POLICKA, MARGARET ROTH, )
and NATALIE SPERAZZA, )
)
Plaintiffs, )
) CASE NO.
-vs- ) 1:21-cv-00238
)
THE TRUSTEES OF INDIANA )
UNIVERSITY, )
)
Defendant. )
DEPOSITION OF MARGARET ROTH
July 1, 2021
Remote oral deposition of MARGARET ROTH,
commencing at 4:33 p.m., on the above date, before
CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968, Registered
Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter
and Notary Public.
GOLKOW LITIGATION SERVICES
877.370.3377 ph / 917.591.5672 fax
deps@golkow.com
Page 3
1
I N D E X
2
MARGARET ROTH EXAMINATION
3
BY MS. RICCHIUTO.............. 4
BY MS. SIEBERT................ 47
4
BY MS. RICCHIUTO.............. 52
BY MS. SIEBERT................ 55
5
6
7
8
E X H I B I T S
9
ROTH DEPOSITION EXHIBIT MARKED FOR ID
10
No. 1 Signed Verification 18
11
No. 2 Verified Complaint for 19
Declaratory and Injunctive
12
Relief
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 2
1
APPEARANCES
All Parties Appearing Via Zoom Videoconference
2
3
ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS:
4
THE BOPP LAW FIRM
1 South 6th Street
5
Terre Haute, Indiana 47807
812-232-2434
6
BY: MELENA S. SIEBERT, ESQ.
msiebert@bopplaw.com
7
8
9
10
ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
11
FAEGRE DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP
300 North Meridian Street, Suite 2500
12
Indianapolis, Indiana 46204
317-237-0300
13
BY: ANNE K. RICCHIUTO, ESQ.
anne.ricchiuto@faegredrinker.com
14
15
16
ALSO PRESENT:
17
MICHELE ROTH
18
19
20
REPORTED BY: CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968
21
22
23
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Page 4
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THE REPORTER: All parties to this deposition
2
are appearing remotely and have agreed to the
3
witness being sworn in remotely.
4
Due to the nature of remote reporting,
5
please pause briefly before speaking to ensure all
6
parties are heard completely.
7
Counsel will be noted on the
8
stenographic record.
9
Counsel, do you so stipulate to the
10
remote swearing in of the witness?
11
MS. SIEBERT: Plaintiffs' counsel does.
12
MS. RICCHIUTO: IU does.
13
(WHEREUPON, the witness was duly
14
sworn.)
15
MARGARET ROTH,
16
called as a witness herein, having been first duly
17
sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
18
EXAMINATION
19
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
20
Q. Hi, Margaret. My name is Anne
21
Ricchiuto. I'm a lawyer for IU, and I'm defending
22
them in this lawsuit that you are one of the
23
Plaintiffs in.
24
The other note I want to make about
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 1 of 16
2 (Pages 5 to 8)
Page 5
1
technical issues, I know you've already had one and
2
we all have them all the time. So, if anything
3
else happens, we will just kind of notify each
4
other and stay in touch and get connected back
5
together as quickly as we can.
6
Does that work for you?
7
A. Yep.
8
Q. Okay. Is there anybody in the room with
9
you on your end?
10
A. Yes. My stepmother.
11
Q. Okay. Hello.
12
And that's just fine. We were -- we
13
were aware that that was a possibility.
14
The one thing I just want to say,
15
Margaret, is if there is a time that you want to
16
talk to her for some reason or talk to your lawyer,
17
I need you to tell me that.
18
And can you make a commitment that
19
you're not going to text or use any chat feature or
20
otherwise communicate with her while you're
21
testifying?
22
A. Yes.
23
Q. Okay. Have you ever had your deposition
24
taken before?
Page 7
1
her out by making sure that our answers are
2
audible.
3
So, nods and head shakes and "uh-huh"
4
and "uh-uh," things that we would do in normal
5
conversation, we have to try to make sure not to do
6
because that makes Corey's job harder.
7
So, if I ask you a question, I'm going
8
to ask you to answer me audibly.
9
Does that work for you?
10
A. That works.
11
Q. Okay. The last thing I want to let you
12
know is that it's possible that your attorney will
13
have an objection to a question that I ask you, and
14
that's just fine if she does.
15
For the most part you're going to go
16
ahead and answer the question anyway unless she
17
specifically instructs you not to. So, I just want
18
to let you know that it's possible that she could
19
have an objection, and that's perfectly fine.
20
Will you please state your name for the
21
record, Margaret.
22
A. My name is Margaret Roth.
23
Q. Tell me about the lawsuit that we're
24
here to talk about today.
Page 6
1
A. I have not.
2
Q. Okay. So, I'll briefly go over the
3
process. This is just some time for me to ask you
4
some questions and just learn a little bit more
5
about your position in this case.
6
You understand you're under oath to
7
testify truthfully today, correct?
8
A. Yes.
9
Q. And I will pose questions to you and
10
I'll be interested in whatever your answers are to
11
those. There aren't right or wrong answers. I'm
12
just trying to understand what your view is.
13
Do you have any notes or documents there
14
with you?
15
A. Nope.
16
Q. Okay. If you -- if I ask you a question
17
and you don't understand it, which happens from
18
time to time, I want you to tell me or ask me to
19
rephrase it. If you answer a question that I ask
20
you, I'm going to assume that you understood it.
21
So, if you don't understand it, please let me know.
22
The Court Reporter is taking down what
23
we say. You can't see her hands, but they are
24
moving really quickly. And, so, we need to help
Page 8
1
A. We are -- well, I'm personally objecting
2
to getting the vaccine. I don't know what to say.
3
Q. Okay. That's okay. That's okay.
4
Is there anything else that you -- that
5
caused you to want to be part of this lawsuit?
6
A. I wanted to be part of this lawsuit to
7
defend other people's rights to not get the
8
vaccine.
9
Q. Okay.
10
A. I wanted to protect my future health, my
11
future ability to have children.
12
Q. Okay. We'll talk more about those
13
things a little bit later.
14
How did you learn about the opportunity
15
to be part of this lawsuit?
16
A. My father and my stepmother presented it
17
to me and told me that it would be an option to
18
pursue going to IU.
19
Q. Do you know how they found out about it?
20
A. Not specifically, no.
21
Q. Okay. Were they recommending that you
22
become involved as a Plaintiff?
23
A. No. I volunteered.
24
Q. When you said it was an option to attend
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 2 of 16
3 (Pages 9 to 12)
Page 9
1
IU, what do you mean by that?
2
A. I mean that if we can't get this to go
3
through that I will not be attending Indiana
4
University.
5
Q. So, if your injunction is not granted,
6
you will not attend starting in August?
7
A. Most likely, yes.
8
Q. So, you might attend?
9
A. Can I speak to my lawyer?
10
Q. Not while a question is pending. I need
11
you to answer the question, and then you can talk
12
to her.
13
A. Can you say that again then, please.
14
Q. Sure. I'm just trying to understand if
15
the injunction is not granted whether you will
16
attend IU in August or not.
17
A. If the injunction is not granted, then I
18
will not be attending IU.
19
Q. Have you registered for classes already?
20
A. I have.
21
Q. Do you have living arrangements? What
22
campus are you going to go to, Margaret?
23
A. Bloomington.
24
Q. Do you have living arrangements signed
Page 11
1
Q. Or why did your lawyers ask you to sign
2
that, do you know?
3
A. I don't quite remember.
4
Q. Okay. Do you know if you signed it
5
before or after the lawsuit was filed?
6
A. I don't remember.
7
Q. Do you know if you read the lawsuit
8
before or after it was filed?
9
A. I don't remember.
10
Q. Okay. I think, Margaret, that you
11
said -- I want to call you Michele because that's
12
what's on your Zoom name. So, if I do that, I'm
13
sorry.
14
Margaret, I think that you said that you
15
have not been vaccinated, is that right?
16
A. That's correct.
17
Q. Do you have any plans to get vaccinated?
18
A. No.
19
Q. Why not?
20
A. Because there are already numerous --
21
sorry. My jaw is a little stiff.
22
Q. That's okay.
23
A. There are already numerous complications
24
that people have been experiencing that I do not
Page 10
1
up down there?
2
A. I have applied, but they haven't been
3
released.
4
Q. Okay. So, is it your testimony that you
5
will withdraw entirely from IU if the injunction is
6
not granted?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. What will you do this fall instead?
9
A. I'll either attend a community college
10
or find another college that would be
11
accommodating.
12
Q. Did you -- the paper that gets filed to
13
have a lawsuit is called a Complaint. Did you read
14
that -- have you seen it?
15
A. I believe so, yes.
16
Q. Okay. Do you know if you saw it before
17
or after it was filed?
18
A. I don't know specifically.
19
Q. Okay. Do you remember signing something
20
called a verification page?
21
A. Yes.
22
Q. Do you have an understanding of what
23
that verification page did?
24
A. I don't quite remember.
Page 12
1
wish to risk happening to me. It has not been
2
tested over a lengthy amount of time. It's only
3
been out for a few months. So, no one knows the
4
long-term effects.
5
There are threats to fertility. There
6
is threats with heart conditions. There is
7
cancer-causing -- excuse me. There is possibility
8
that it could enhance the probability of cancer,
9
and we've had a long history of cancer in my family
10
and I don't want to risk that.
11
From what I've seen, there is less risk
12
to getting COVID, especially at my age, than to put
13
something that I don't know what it is into my
14
body.
15
Q. Okay. I want to talk about some of
16
those things that you just said a little bit more,
17
Margaret.
18
You gave me a list of concerns that you
19
have about the COVID-19 vaccine. Can you tell me
20
generally where does your understanding come from
21
that allows you to give me that list of concerns?
22
A. Personal research as well as reports
23
from America's frontline doctors, reports from
24
doctors that are being silenced, just statistics
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 3 of 16
4 (Pages 13 to 16)
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1
that have come out about all of the complications
2
that people have been experiencing.
3
Q. Okay. And that information, are those
4
things that you've read or seen somewhere?
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. Were they on the Internet or at a
7
library or somewhere else?
8
A. Internet, scanned documents, webinars
9
that we've listened to.
10
Q. Webinars with your lawyers or with
11
others?
12
A. Well, I guess I don't mean webinars.
13
But just conversations that I've listened to
14
between doctors and other people.
15
Q. Can you give me an example of a
16
conversation that you've listened to between
17
doctors?
18
A. I don't remember specifically.
19
Q. Was that something that was in person
20
where you saw doctors conversing with one another?
21
A. No.
22
Q. Was it a video?
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. A video online?
Page 15
1
told you that those are risks for
2
you. Is that correct?
3
A. Not personally, but I don't
4
believe that I need someone to tell
5
me that.)
6
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
7
Q. Okay. So, you're comfortable -- do I
8
understand you to be saying, Margaret, that you're
9
comfortable with what you've read online in terms
10
of understanding the risks of the vaccine and you
11
don't feel like you need to consult with any
12
medical professional? Is that fair?
13
A. Yes, that's fair. I mean, doctors are
14
just humans too, and no one really knows anything
15
about this vaccine specifically. So, even if
16
someone is telling me it's good for me, then I
17
believe I can personally say that it's not good for
18
me just based on the information that has been
19
released.
20
Q. Have you -- you've told me about some
21
information that you've looked at telling you that
22
it's not good for you.
23
Have you read any information that
24
expresses a different view, that expresses a view
Page 14
1
A. Yes.
2
Q. Okay. Have you talked to any physician
3
about any of the concerns that you just listed for
4
me?
5
A. No, not personally.
6
Q. No physician has ever told you that
7
those are risks for you. Is that correct?
8
A. Not personally, but I don't believe that
9
I need someone to tell me that.
10
Q. Okay.
11
MS. SIEBERT: Anne, I'm sorry. Can we take
12
just a two-minute break here?
13
MS. RICCHIUTO: Yes, absolutely.
14
MS. SIEBERT: Great.
15
MS. RICCHIUTO: No problem.
16
MS. SIEBERT: Margaret, if you can turn off
17
your microphone and camera, that would be great.
18
(WHEREUPON, a recess was had
19
from 4:45 to 4:47 p.m.)
20
MS. RICCHIUTO: Corey, will you remind me what
21
I asked last.
22
(WHEREUPON, the record was read
23
by the reporter as requested as
24
follows: Q. No physician has ever
Page 16
1
that the vaccine, for example, is safe and is
2
something that would be beneficial for you? Have
3
you read anything saying that?
4
A. Yes, I have, because just from the world
5
we live in, everyone is exposed to all those here's
6
why this is good for you, here's why you should
7
take this, here's why it won't pose any
8
complications.
9
But I just find those to be possibly
10
misleading because if someone else is telling me
11
what's good for my health and they don't know
12
personally what I've got -- what I've gone through
13
and what my family has gone through, then I don't
14
know if I can trust that.
15
Q. Okay. Do you have the same concern
16
about trusting information that's telling you that
17
it's not good for you?
18
A. I mean, I suppose so, but I wouldn't say
19
that it's telling me to not get it. It's telling
20
me here what's could happen if you get it and it's
21
your decision. Whereas all of the articles and
22
information, everything that's telling me why I
23
should get it is telling me you have to get it.
24
And I guess just the difference between that is the
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 4 of 16
5 (Pages 17 to 20)
Page 17
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option versus the mandate, which is scary.
2
Q. Okay. Do you have, Margaret, access to
3
your -- the link that Melena would have sent you to
4
look at a document with me?
5
A. Yeah, I think so.
6
Q. Okay. If you refresh that --
7
MS. MICHELE ROTH: Oops, did we just lose her?
8
THE WITNESS: No, she'll still there.
9
BY THE WITNESS:
10
A. We have it pulled up.
11
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
12
Q. Okay. Do you have your camera off
13
because you're looking at the screen?
14
A. Yeah, since we switched to the iPad, it
15
doesn't let you have multiple tabs open I don't
16
think.
17
Q. We will try to look at it and then maybe
18
come back together.
19
A. Okay.
20
Q. But I certainly want you to see the
21
document if I'm going to ask you about it.
22
Do you recognize this document that's
23
pulled up here that's going to be marked as
24
Exhibit 1, Margaret?
Page 19
1
Margaret, is this verification that you're looking
2
at, is that something that you signed?
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. Does seeing it remind you what the
5
purpose of it was?
6
A. Yes.
7
Q. And what was that?
8
A. The purpose for signing it?
9
Q. Yeah.
10
A. Verifying that I'll be truthful and that
11
I'll say everything that I need to say to state my
12
position.
13
Q. Okay. Okay. Now if you refresh, now I
14
hope you'll have -- I was going to even skip that
15
document and I botched it. I'm sorry for that,
16
everybody.
17
But if you can get -- let me know,
18
Margaret, when you're on page 44.
19
(WHEREUPON, Roth Deposition Exhibit
20
No. 2 was marked for
21
identification: Verified Complaint
22
for Declaratory and Injunctive
23
Relief.)
24
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
Page 18
1
A. Yes.
2
Q. Okay. Can you look at -- I think the
3
information about you start at paragraph -- starts
4
at paragraph 209.
5
You're free to look at anything else
6
that you want to in the document, but I'm going to
7
be specifically asking you about paragraphs 209 and
8
the next few paragraphs after that. That's on --
9
starts on page 44 of the document, if that helps
10
you find it.
11
MS. SIEBERT: Anne.
12
MS. RICCHIUTO: Yeah.
13
MS. SIEBERT: I'm sorry. The exhibit you have
14
is the verification form.
15
MS. RICCHIUTO: Well, that's not the right
16
one. Thank you, Melena.
17
MS. SIEBERT: You're welcome.
18
MS. RICCHIUTO: Sorry about that.
19
(WHEREUPON, Roth Deposition Exhibit
20
No. 1 was marked for
21
identification: Signed
22
Verification.)
23
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
24
Q. You know, now that we have it up,
Page 20
1
Q. Have you seen this document, the big
2
document?
3
A. I may have glanced over it, but I
4
haven't read it in depth.
5
Q. Let me know when you get to paragraph
6
209, when you have that in front of you.
7
A. We have that in front of us.
8
Q. Okay. It says that you are an incoming
9
freshman at IU. I gather that's correct?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. And then it talks about your objection
12
to taking the vaccine, and some of that is what we
13
just talked about.
14
Paragraph 209 also mentions "the
15
extremely minimal risk of COVID to all age groups,
16
especially her age group."
17
Can you tell me a little bit more about
18
your views about the risk of COVID starting with
19
your age group?
20
A. Just from hearing and seeing statistics
21
about it and personal experiences like friends
22
supposedly contracting COVID, the risks are what
23
seems to me to be like a cold and loss of taste and
24
smell and then they're fine.
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 5 of 16
6 (Pages 21 to 24)
Page 21
1
For my age group, I don't -- I think we
2
all still have great immune systems and we don't
3
need to introduce anything to alter the body's way
4
of fighting off COVID-19.
5
Q. Do some people not have as great of an
6
immune system as others?
7
A. Yes, that's true.
8
Q. Would those people benefit from the
9
vaccine, in your view?
10
A. I think that's their decision if they
11
want to take it. I don't know if it would help
12
them because I believe it hasn't been said that --
13
I don't know.
14
Q. Where does your understanding that
15
there's -- that there is a minimal risk of COVID to
16
all age groups?
17
A. Based on the fact that it's a 99.99 X
18
number survival rate.
19
Q. For -- survival -- that's your
20
understanding of the COVID survival rate?
21
A. Yes.
22
Q. Where does that number come from?
23
A. From just statistics that I see.
24
Q. Do you know where you've seen those
Page 23
1
Q. Okay. Paragraph 210 in the Complaint,
2
Margaret, contains some pretty personal information
3
about your family's health circumstances, and I
4
don't -- other than to say I'm sorry to read about
5
all of that and I know that has to be really hard
6
circumstances.
7
I don't need to ask you specifics about
8
any of those, but I just want to ask you a couple
9
of clarifying questions about that paragraph.
10
You mention I think two or three aunts
11
and a great-aunt. Are those family members family
12
members that are biologically related to you?
13
(Clarification requested by the
14
reporter.)
15
THE WITNESS: Yes. I can either look at the
16
document or I can have my camera on.
17
MS. RICCHIUTO: Melena, how do you feel about
18
her not looking at the document?
19
MS. SIEBERT: Let's for now, Margaret, since
20
she's looking at -- do you feel comfortable enough
21
that you know what is in paragraph 210 to answer
22
some questions about it?
23
THE WITNESS: I should be, yes.
24
MS. SIEBERT: Okay.
Page 22
1
statistics?
2
A. Not specifically.
3
Q. Are you aware of any statistics about
4
the death rate associated with COVID?
5
A. Not specifically.
6
Q. So, for example, are you aware that the
7
U.S. death toll is something around -- I think it's
8
around 600,000 people?
9
A. I wasn't aware of the specific number.
10
Q. Were you aware that anybody had died of
11
COVID?
12
A. Yes, I was aware of that.
13
Q. Were you aware that people of all
14
different ages have died of COVID?
15
A. Yes.
16
Q. Okay. Do you believe there's any age
17
group that for which COVID poses risks?
18
A. Can you say that again?
19
Q. Do you believe that COVID poses a health
20
risk for anybody?
21
A. I mean, if you have a weakened immune
22
system, if you're elderly, I believe that COVID-19
23
would pose issues just as much as the flu would,
24
just as much as common cold could.
Page 24
1
MS. RICCHIUTO: Otherwise it's okay with me if
2
she looks at it, you know, just while we are really
3
looking at the Complaint unless that's posing a
4
problem for Corey.
5
MS. SIEBERT: Margaret, let's do it this way.
6
Let's have your camera back on, but if at any point
7
Anne asks a question and you need to refer back to
8
the Complaint, then we'll kind of go back and
9
forth. Is that fair with everybody?
10
THE WITNESS: Okay.
11
MS. SIEBERT: Anne, are you okay with you?
12
MS. RICCHIUTO: I'm great with that.
13
MS. SIEBERT: Corey?
14
THE REPORTER: Yes.
15
MS. RICCHIUTO: If you want to look at the
16
document, we want you to be able to look at it. If
17
we were all together, I'd hand it to you and you
18
could hold it and we could look at one another at
19
the same time.
20
MS. SIEBERT: Just so you know, they tried
21
to -- their laptop was having some technical issues
22
because they weren't planning to use the iPad.
23
MS. RICCHIUTO: Go with the flow.
24
MS. SIEBERT: We'll try it this way.
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 6 of 16
7 (Pages 25 to 28)
Page 25
1
MS. RICCHIUTO: That's fine.
2
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
3
Q. Then that paragraph talks about some
4
skin reactions and rashes that you've had in the
5
past. Do you remember those being described in
6
there?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. And then you sort of sum up -- you've
9
got some medical history about your family, and
10
then you've got this information about your skin
11
issues. And then it says, "All of this makes it
12
much more likely that Ms. Roth will suffer adverse
13
reactions from the vaccine."
14
My question about that is what is the
15
basis for your understanding that your family
16
history and your skin -- your past skin issues make
17
you more likely to suffer adverse reactions from
18
the vaccine?
19
A. Just because I've suffered adverse
20
reactions from the tiniest thing, like any --
21
introducing any foreign substances could pose even
22
greater complications.
23
Q. Is that a conclusion that you've come to
24
or is that something that a doctor has told you?
Page 27
1
that. Is that accurate?
2
A. I believe so, yes.
3
Q. Okay. The next paragraph of your
4
Complaint says, "Additionally, asthma runs in
5
Miss Roth's family, so masks are also not an
6
acceptable alternative."
7
Do you have asthma, Margaret?
8
A. I do not have asthma that has presented.
9
Q. Have you ever been tested for asthma?
10
A. I don't remember.
11
Q. Which family members have asthma?
12
A. My father and my sister.
13
Q. And, so, on the basis of your father and
14
your sister having asthma, is that the basis for
15
your testimony or your allegation in the Complaint
16
that masks are not a -- not something that you can
17
wear or what do you -- what's your limitations with
18
respect to masks?
19
A. I mean, yes, there's the asthma portion,
20
but there's also a psychological portion that
21
accompanies it. If I were forced to wear a mask,
22
then I would almost definitely be segregated
23
against. I'd almost definitely be outcast. I
24
would essentially be wearing a scarlet letter as
Page 26
1
A. A doctor has not said that.
2
Q. Have you ever asked a doctor if your
3
family history or your skin conditions make it more
4
likely that you'll suffer adverse reactions from
5
the vaccine?
6
A. No.
7
Q. Did you apply for a medical exemption
8
from IU?
9
A. No.
10
Q. Why not?
11
A. Because IU would not allow it based on
12
their definition of what a medical exemption would
13
cover.
14
Q. What's your understanding of what it
15
would cover?
16
A. I don't quite remember what IU said.
17
Q. Did you look into it --
18
A. Yeah.
19
Q. -- to see if you thought you would
20
qualify?
21
A. I didn't personally look into it, but my
22
lawyers and my parents looked into it.
23
Q. And it sounds like your understanding is
24
whatever the criteria are, you don't qualify for
Page 28
1
they've been calling it and singling myself out.
2
Q. Okay. So, your concern -- I don't want
3
to -- I want you to tell me.
4
It sounds like you have a concern that
5
if you wore a mask at IU, then you would
6
potentially be treated differently. Is that what
7
you're saying?
8
A. Yes.
9
Q. Where does that understanding come from?
10
A. It comes from personal experience. It
11
comes from seeing others post about people on
12
social media. It comes from just how I view other
13
people who wear masks or don't.
14
Q. Let's start with that.
15
How do you view people who wear masks or
16
don't?
17
A. I -- I can't really say anything
18
specifically about that because everyone has their
19
own view and their own situation.
20
Q. Okay. Well, you said that a factor for
21
your concern that you'd be treated differently is
22
how you view people whether or not they wear a
23
mask, and I'm just trying to understand what that
24
means.
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 7 of 16
8 (Pages 29 to 32)
Page 29
1
A. I mean, it's -- my view has changed as
2
the COVID pandemic has changed. I don't know.
3
Q. What did your view used to be about
4
people that wear masks or didn't?
5
A. Well, my view has always been that it's
6
sort of silly, but if I find out that they think
7
it's protecting them, then that's good for them.
8
I don't think anyone should be forced to
9
wear a mask. There's been multiple studies that
10
show that masks aren't completely preventative.
11
Q. Are there any studies that show that
12
masks provide some preventative benefit?
13
A. I don't remember.
14
Q. Do you remember anything else about the
15
studies that said that they don't provide a benefit
16
or they don't provide I think you said a complete
17
benefit?
18
A. Or benefit at all. I've seen a few
19
studies that have said that. The particles of
20
COVID-19 are too small and get through masks
21
anyway.
22
Q. Okay. So, one of the factors that you
23
gave me was how you view people. Another one was
24
posts that you've seen that gave you the impression
Page 31
1
Q. Did any of this experience happen at IU
2
Bloomington campus?
3
A. No.
4
Q. When you see someone wearing a mask, are
5
you able to tell if that person has been vaccinated
6
or not?
7
A. No.
8
Q. When the sort of world shut down in
9
March of 2020 last year, there were a lot of mask
10
mandates and orders. Some were State, some were
11
local.
12
Has there been any times since the
13
pandemic started in March of 2020 that you have
14
worn a mask for COVID purposes?
15
A. Yes.
16
Q. Can you tell me about those times?
17
A. I've been forced into wearing a mask
18
because of the mandates and such, although I didn't
19
want to.
20
Q. Can you give me some examples of where
21
you've worn a mask?
22
A. In school, at my work.
23
Q. Did you ever go shopping?
24
A. Yeah.
Page 30
1
that you would be treated differently if you wore a
2
mask at IU. Can you say more about what you meant
3
by that?
4
A. Well, just being on social media as
5
teenagers do, I've seen posts where people
6
criticize and berate others for either not wearing
7
masks or if someone is forced to wear a mask
8
because they're not -- they haven't gotten the
9
shot, people will also view them differently and
10
almost attack them.
11
Q. Do people who do get the shot ever get
12
attacked for having gotten the shot?
13
A. I suppose, yes, from others who -- yes.
14
Q. And then another factor that I think you
15
said was your personal experience, that these are
16
factors that led to your concern that you might be
17
treated differently at IU.
18
Can you tell me about that personal
19
experience that you were referencing?
20
A. That's just from hearing peers,
21
classmates, co-workers, whoever, talk about others
22
who are either not wearing masks or wearing masks
23
and just saying how they would act if they
24
interacted with that person I suppose.
Page 32
1
Q. When you go into a business that
2
requires masks, do you wear one?
3
A. If I have to, yes. Otherwise I'll do
4
online orders or online shopping.
5
Q. Well, have you ever gone to a store that
6
had a sign on the front that said "Masks required"
7
and not worn a mask in that store?
8
A. I don't remember.
9
Q. Do you go or did you -- I guess you're a
10
grad now. Did you go to public school or private
11
school?
12
A. Private.
13
Q. Were you guys on hybrid or full time?
14
How much time were you wearing a mask for school
15
during the school year last year?
16
A. Our schedule changed a lot. We went
17
from hybrid to all online, back to hybrid, in
18
person, hybrid. It was all over the place.
19
Q. Did you have to wear a mask any time you
20
were at the school building?
21
A. Yeah.
22
Q. About how often was that?
23
A. I mean --
24
Q. Understanding that it changed, but let's
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 8 of 16
9 (Pages 33 to 36)
Page 33
1
say like a hybrid week, how much would you be at
2
school?
3
A. It would be 14 to 21 hours about.
4
Q. In a week?
5
A. In a hybrid week.
6
Q. Okay. Where do you work?
7
A. I work at an ice cream store.
8
Q. How often do you do that?
9
A. Three to five times a week.
10
Q. How long have you had that job?
11
A. A little over two years.
12
Q. Did you work three to five times a week
13
even during the school year?
14
A. No.
15
Q. Those are kind of summer hours?
16
A. Yes.
17
Q. What about during the school year?
18
A. During the school year I worked about
19
once a week.
20
Q. And are you required to wear a mask
21
while you are working at the ice cream store?
22
A. Yes.
23
Q. Do you wear a mask while you're working
24
at the ice cream store?
Page 35
1
mean?
2
Q. Well, I don't know. If there were
3
something that had a different material that didn't
4
make you as hot or other things to accommodate
5
these experiences that you've had.
6
A. Then, yeah, I've tried different
7
materials.
8
Q. Other than what you told me earlier
9
about your concern that you might be treated
10
differently at Bloomington if you wear a mask, are
11
there other ways that you believe that you will be
12
harmed by wearing a mask at Bloomington?
13
A. I don't know specifically.
14
Q. Another part of your Complaint, and this
15
is in paragraph 211 -- and, again, if it doesn't
16
ring a bell, it's totally fine for you to look at
17
it.
18
It says, "Nor is repeated exposure to
19
the carcinogenic chemicals on the nasal testing
20
swabs, especially with her family history of
21
cancer."
22
And I want to ask you about the nasal
23
testing swabs. So, what's your understanding of
24
what carcinogenic chemicals are on nasal testing
Page 34
1
A. Most of the time.
2
Q. Have you ever considered quitting that
3
job so you didn't have to wear a mask?
4
A. Yes.
5
Q. But you're still employed there?
6
A. Yes.
7
Q. Okay. So, school, work, shopping.
8
Anywhere else that you can think of that you've
9
worn a mask in the last year?
10
A. Not really, no.
11
Q. Have you been harmed by that mask
12
wearing?
13
A. What do you mean by that?
14
Q. Have you experienced any physical harm
15
as a result of wearing a mask at school, work and
16
shopping?
17
A. I guess I could say just general
18
overheating, a little bit difficulty to breathe.
19
Q. Do those things happen every time you
20
wear a mask?
21
A. Yes.
22
Q. Have you tried different kinds of masks
23
to see if anything worked better for you?
24
A. What kinds of different masks do you
Page 36
1
swabs?
2
A. I don't know specifically, but I know
3
that it's substances that are potentially
4
carcinogenic, and I don't want that introduced into
5
my body.
6
Q. And how do you know? You said you know
7
that. How do you know?
8
A. Know what exactly?
9
Q. That there is something potentially
10
carcinogenic on swabs.
11
A. From -- I guess I don't know
12
specifically.
13
Q. Do you remember when you heard that or
14
where you heard that?
15
A. No.
16
Q. Has a physician ever told you that the
17
testing swabs are potentially carcinogenic?
18
A. Not personally.
19
Q. What do you mean by that?
20
A. I have never had a doctor tell me face
21
to face.
22
Q. Have you had a doctor tell you some
23
other way?
24
A. No.
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 9 of 16
10 (Pages 37 to 40)
Page 37
1
Q. Has anyone ever told you that being
2
tested for COVID will increase your risk for
3
cancer?
4
A. I've been told that there is a potential
5
risk.
6
Q. And who told you that?
7
A. My parents.
8
Q. Do you know where they got -- how they
9
learned that information?
10
MS. SIEBERT: Objection; hearsay. You can go
11
ahead and answer, though, Margaret.
12
BY THE WITNESS:
13
A. From their own research and -- yeah,
14
from their own research.
15
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
16
Q. Have your parents ever been tested for
17
COVID?
18
A. I don't know.
19
Q. Have you ever been tested for COVID?
20
A. No.
21
Q. If you were to be tested for COVID in
22
some way other than with a nasal swab, would you
23
have the same concern about being tested for COVID?
24
A. I don't know.
Page 39
1
A. I guess so.
2
Q. Have you ever had COVID or thought that
3
you had COVID?
4
A. I think so.
5
Q. How many times?
6
A. There was only one instance where we did
7
not know what I had. It was right before all of
8
the pandemic stuff started.
9
Q. So, sometime before March of 2020?
10
That's when kind of the big shutdown orders came.
11
A. I don't believe so, but I don't know the
12
exact date.
13
Q. Okay. What were your symptoms that you
14
had at that time?
15
A. My throat swelled up so much that I like
16
didn't have a chin. I believe I had at least one
17
fever. We double tested for strep, and it was not
18
strep. That's all I can remember.
19
Q. When you got tested for strep, did they
20
do that with one of those long swabs that they put
21
down your throat?
22
A. I don't remember.
23
Q. Have you ever been tested for strep any
24
other way than that?
Page 38
1
Q. Let's do some hypotheticals.
2
What if you could be tested for COVID
3
using a blood test?
4
A. I don't know, but that just seems
5
excessive.
6
Q. What if you could be tested for COVID by
7
some kind of -- seeing something that's on the palm
8
of your hand?
9
A. I don't know.
10
Q. Well, does that seem harmful to you?
11
Would you have the same concerns about harm?
12
A. It just depends on what it is.
13
Q. What about if you could be tested for
14
COVID using your saliva?
15
A. I don't know.
16
Q. Well, it sounds to me like your concern
17
about the swab is the swab's contact with your
18
body. Is that part of what you're concerned about
19
with the swab?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. So, if you could be tested for COVID in
22
a way where no testing implement had contact with
23
your body, would you feel that that was a less
24
risky way to be tested?
Page 40
1
A. I don't remember.
2
Q. How long were you sick that time that
3
you think you may have had COVID?
4
A. I don't remember.
5
Q. Are you experiencing -- did you
6
experience any symptoms later that you thought
7
might have been attributable to your possible COVID
8
infection?
9
A. No.
10
Q. During the time that you had those
11
symptoms, were you aware of the idea of
12
quarantining or staying home or wearing a mask or
13
was it sort of before we knew about all of that?
14
A. I don't remember, but I stayed home
15
because I was sick. So...
16
Q. Did you stay home for more than just the
17
days that you were sick?
18
A. I don't remember.
19
Q. Any other times that you thought you
20
might have had COVID?
21
A. I don't think so.
22
Q. Has anyone in your household had COVID?
23
A. I don't know.
24
Q. Has anyone in your household besides you
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 10 of 16
11 (Pages 41 to 44)
Page 41
1
had symptoms that are known to be associated with
2
COVID?
3
A. I don't remember.
4
Q. I was sorry to hear that it sounds like
5
you had some big dental work done this week,
6
although you look great.
7
A. Thanks.
8
Q. At the dentist's office -- was it a
9
dentist or surgeon or somewhere?
10
A. Oral surgeon.
11
Q. Okay. Were you required to wear a mask
12
at the oral surgeon's office?
13
A. No.
14
Q. Have you been required to wear a mask at
15
any kind of doctor or dental or other medical
16
building in the last year?
17
A. I don't remember.
18
Q. Were there any medications or anesthesia
19
involved with the dental procedure that you had
20
this week?
21
A. Yes.
22
Q. Did you do anything to investigate
23
whether those medications or anesthesia might
24
implicate any of the health concerns that you
Page 43
1
the mandate. And first I want to ask you, what do
2
you mean by the mandate there?
3
A. By the mandate, is that what you said?
4
Q. Yeah. Let me read it to you just so you
5
can have it. This is the sentence. This is in
6
paragraph 213 of the Complaint.
7
"Miss Roth also has a sincerely held
8
religious objection to IU's mandate."
9
And I --
10
A. I believe that's in reference to the
11
vaccination mandate. Sorry for interrupting.
12
Q. No. I am here to hear from you. So,
13
thank you for that answer.
14
So, you have a sincerely held religious
15
objection to receiving the COVID vaccine or being
16
required to receive the COVID vaccine or is it
17
something else?
18
A. Can you repeat that?
19
Q. I just want to understand what is your
20
objection specifically to.
21
A. It's an objection to being mandated to
22
receive something that possibly contains aborted
23
fetal cells.
24
Q. Okay. Where does the understanding come
Page 42
1
described to me before?
2
A. No, because they've been tested over a
3
longer period of time.
4
Q. Do you know what anesthesia or
5
medications that you had?
6
A. Not specifically, no.
7
Q. How do you know that they've been tested
8
over a longer period of time?
9
A. Because people have been getting their
10
wisdom teeth out for longer than people have been
11
getting the COVID-19. And, I mean, I watched a
12
video that was from at least 20 years ago talking
13
about it.
14
Q. Do you know if that -- the person in
15
that video received the same anesthesia or
16
medications that you did this week?
17
A. I don't know.
18
Q. Did you have any religious objection to
19
the treatment that you got this week for your
20
wisdom teeth?
21
A. No.
22
Q. Your Complaint in a different section
23
says that you have -- a different paragraph says
24
you have a sincerely held religious objection to
Page 44
1
from that -- do I take it that you believe that the
2
vaccine may have some kind of aborted fetal cells?
3
Or you tell me what's your understanding about
4
that.
5
A. From what I understand, it's possible
6
that one is produced using aborted fetal cells and
7
it's possible that one has aborted fetal cells
8
directly in it.
9
Q. Do you know which ones those are?
10
A. No.
11
Q. Have you ever tried to find out?
12
A. No.
13
Q. Are you aware that there's three kind of
14
generally available vaccines in the U.S.?
15
A. Yeah.
16
Q. So, you described two. Does that mean
17
that there's a third that you don't have a
18
religious objection to?
19
A. I don't know.
20
Q. Well, do you have a religious objection
21
to all three of the COVID vaccines?
22
A. I have a religious objection to the
23
possibility that there's aborted fetal cells in it
24
and if it's in one, then it's completely possible
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 11 of 16
12 (Pages 45 to 48)
Page 45
1
that it's in another, no matter if it's hidden or
2
not. And I don't want that in my body.
3
Q. If you were to learn that there was no
4
fetal cells involved in the production of the
5
vaccine or actually in the vaccine, would you still
6
have a religious objection to it?
7
A. I don't know.
8
Q. Was there any other basis for your
9
religious objection other than these potential
10
cells?
11
A. I don't know.
12
Q. Based on the objection that we just
13
talked about, did you file for religious exemption
14
from being vaccinated to attend IU Bloomington?
15
A. No.
16
Q. Why not?
17
A. Because if we filed for the religious
18
exemption, then I would still have to wear a mask
19
and submit to testing.
20
Q. If you filed for the religious exemption
21
and it were granted, are you aware that you would
22
not have to get the vaccine?
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. Do you have plans to seek an exemption
Page 47
1
being tested for COVID. I don't think that you
2
have told me that those concerns are religious
3
concerns, but I want to confirm that with you.
4
A. I don't think so.
5
Q. You don't think that you have a
6
religious objection to wearing a mask?
7
A. Yeah. I don't think so.
8
Q. And you don't have a religious objection
9
to being tested for COVID, correct?
10
A. Yeah. That's correct.
11
MS. RICCHIUTO: Can you give me one second.
12
I think that's all the questions I have
13
for now.
14
Melena, do you have any questions?
15
EXAMINATION
16
BY MS. SIEBERT:
17
Q. Margaret, I just have a couple of what I
18
think are fairly quick questions. Do you need a
19
break before we start?
20
A. I'm okay.
21
Q. Okay. All right. Just want to make
22
sure you're feeling okay. Okay.
23
Anne had asked you about some potential
24
harms from wearing a mask, and you had testified
Page 46
1
so that you don't have to get the vaccine?
2
A. I don't know.
3
Q. Well, it sounds like you qualify for
4
one. Do you agree with that?
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. But you haven't filed for one, correct?
7
A. That's correct.
8
Q. But you could, correct?
9
A. Yes.
10
Q. Your objections to masking and testing,
11
are those religious objections or are those
12
objections based on something else?
13
A. Can you say that again?
14
Q. Sure. I think we've established that
15
you have a sincerely held religious objection to
16
receiving the COVID vaccine. Do you agree with
17
that?
18
A. Yes.
19
Q. Or at least the COVID vaccines that do
20
or may contain cells or tissue that are of concern
21
to you, correct?
22
A. Correct.
23
Q. And you've also told me some reasons why
24
you have concerns about mask -- wearing a mask and
Page 48
1
about overheating, problems breathing.
2
Do you remember testifying to that?
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. Okay. All right. Do you think that you
5
will suffer any psychological harms from wearing a
6
mask?
7
A. By psychological concerns, can you like
8
explain that more?
9
Q. Sure. Gosh, how would I explain that?
10
I guess any harms that -- I'm thinking
11
of harms that aren't physical but more mental harms
12
that you might experience from having to wear a
13
mask.
14
MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection; leading.
15
BY THE WITNESS:
16
A. Well, if I were to have to wear a mask,
17
I can see not being able to make friends in
18
college. I could see them forcing me to live in a
19
different complex away from all the vaccinated
20
individuals.
21
So, essentially just everything that
22
comes with being an outcast and being sort of
23
marked as someone who isn't compliant.
24
BY MS. SIEBERT:
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 12 of 16
13 (Pages 49 to 52)
Page 49
1
Q. Okay. And I believe you testified that
2
over this past year you wore a mask in school and
3
various other locations, correct?
4
A. Yes.
5
Q. When you did that, when you wore a mask
6
over the past year, did it make -- did you suffer
7
any psychological harms from that over the past
8
year?
9
A. I mean, other than feeling like I wasn't
10
true to my own beliefs, I would say not
11
specifically, because at that time everyone was
12
required to wear masks and there was no
13
differentiation between those who were vaccinated
14
versus unvaccinated.
15
Q. Did wearing masks in school, do you
16
think it affected your education?
17
A. Yes.
18
Q. How so?
19
A. I remember even just on the first day
20
back, having to wear a mask, I couldn't concentrate
21
because it was so distracting being overheated and
22
thinking about wearing a mask and how it didn't go
23
along with my beliefs and just constantly either
24
pulling it down to take a drink or being told to
Page 51
1
barriers will be impacted by in the same way?
2
A. Yes.
3
MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection; speculation.
4
BY MS. SIEBERT:
5
Q. Do you think that some of these
6
psychological and mental harms that you've
7
testified to today are any less important than
8
your -- the physical harms that you've testified
9
to?
10
MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection.
11
BY THE WITNESS:
12
A. No.
13
MS. RICCHIUTO: Misstates the testimony.
14
BY THE WITNESS:
15
A. No.
16
BY MS. SIEBERT:
17
Q. You spoke that -- you testified earlier
18
regarding your oral surgery that you had this week.
19
Do you remember that?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. I'm glad you're feeling better. You're
22
kind of a rock star. I had wisdom teeth out, and I
23
looked like a chipmunk for a long time.
24
And you did testify that you took
Page 50
1
pull it back up or thinking about just wearing one
2
in general just distracted me from wearing a mask.
3
And I couldn't wear my glasses very well
4
because of the fog that occurs. So, I just gave up
5
with that. And, so, yes, it definitely affected my
6
learning.
7
Q. I wear glasses, so I feel your pain on
8
that.
9
Did it affect communication within your
10
education, wearing a mask?
11
MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection; leading.
12
BY THE WITNESS:
13
A. I think it definitely did. It was
14
difficult to understand some of my teachers. It
15
was difficult to participate in discussions,
16
especially with hybrid learning. It was difficult
17
to read people. Pretty much everything that comes
18
along with learning, visual and auditory. It
19
prevented a lot of those interactions.
20
BY MS. SIEBERT:
21
Q. If you -- if the mandate is still in
22
effect and you have to wear a mask this fall if you
23
choose to continue your education at IU, do you
24
anticipate that some of those same educational
Page 52
1
anesthesia before that surgery. Is that correct?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. At any point when you were contemplating
4
having the surgery or right beforehand, did you
5
feel coerced to take the anesthesia?
6
A. No, I chose to.
7
MS. SIEBERT: That's all I have.
8
MS. RICCHIUTO: Okay. I have a couple more
9
questions on those.
10
FURTHER EXAMINATION
11
BY MS. RICCHIUTO:
12
Q. With respect to your testimony,
13
Margaret, about wearing a mask at school and it
14
impacting communication, were your grades different
15
when you were wearing a mask than when you were
16
not?
17
A. I don't think there was a huge
18
difference. I think it's difficult to say because
19
it's different classes with junior year and senior
20
year.
21
My grades stayed pretty much at my same
22
grade level because of the work I put in outside of
23
class and -- well, that's all I have to say.
24
Q. So, is that a no, wearing a mask did not
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 13 of 16
14 (Pages 53 to 56)
Page 53
1
impact your grades?
2
A. I would say it impacted in-person
3
grades, testing grades. But because of my efforts
4
outside of school without a mask on, my grades
5
didn't suffer terribly.
6
Q. When you were talking about things that
7
might happen if you had to wear a mask at
8
Bloomington, you said, "I could see not being able
9
to make friends. I could see living in a different
10
complex."
11
Are those things that have actually
12
happened or that you know will happen or things
13
that you are worried might happen?
14
A. Those are things that I'm worried might
15
happen, but I don't know if they will for certain.
16
Q. When you filled out your housing
17
paperwork for Bloomington, did it -- was there a
18
question about whether you've been vaccinated?
19
A. I don't remember.
20
Q. Has Bloomington told you that they're
21
going to house you differently depending upon
22
whether or not you're vaccinated?
23
A. I don't think so.
24
Q. So, that's just something that you've
Page 55
1
believe that I should be forced to wear one.
2
Q. So, when you wear one, you -- you what?
3
You think what?
4
A. I think that I shouldn't have to wear
5
one, and I just think about when I can take it off
6
or if I can take it off without anyone saying
7
anything to me.
8
MS. RICCHIUTO: I think that's all that I have
9
for you, Margaret.
10
MS. SIEBERT: Margaret, I have just one
11
follow-up from the follow-up.
12
FURTHER EXAMINATION
13
BY MS. SIEBERT:
14
Q. Do you think grades -- when you think
15
about the word "education" or you think about your
16
education, are the grades -- are grades the only
17
thing that matter to you?
18
A. No. I would say grades were a lot
19
different from education this year. I would say a
20
lot of teachers boosted the grades because they
21
knew that we weren't getting the same education, so
22
they would give us points, which wouldn't
23
necessarily reflect my education.
24
Q. Okay.
Page 54
1
come up with that if it happens, you wouldn't like
2
it but you don't know that it's going to happen.
3
Is that fair?
4
A. Yeah. I mean, they haven't released
5
housing, so I have no idea what could happen.
6
Q. When you are wearing a mask at your job
7
at the ice cream store, are you psychologically
8
harmed by that?
9
A. Can you elaborate on that?
10
Q. Well, your lawyer asked you about
11
psychological harm that you had experienced from
12
wearing a mask, and I'm trying to figure out if
13
that's always when you wear a mask or only certain
14
times that you wear a mask that you feel like you
15
are psychologically harmed?
16
A. I always feel I guess psychologically
17
harmed when I wear a mask because I'm not being
18
true to myself. I think it also depends on the
19
environment. Just depends on who is -- so that's
20
all I have to say.
21
Q. What do you mean that you're not being
22
true to yourself when you wear a mask?
23
A. I don't believe that they help in the
24
way that everyone thinks they help, and I don't
Page 56
1
MS. SIEBERT: That's all I have.
2
MS. RICCHIUTO: I don't have anything else.
3
Thank you, Margaret. Hope you continue to feel
4
good.
5
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
6
(Time noted: 5:47 p.m.)
7
FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NAUGHT
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 14 of 16
15 (Pages 57 to 60)
Page 57
1
I, CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968,
2
Registered Professional Reporter and Certified
Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify:
3
That previous to the commencement of the
examination of the witness, the witness was duly
4
sworn to testify the whole truth concerning the
matters herein;
5
That the foregoing deposition transcript
was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter
6
reduced to typewriting under my personal direction
and constitutes a true record of the testimony
7
given and the proceedings had;
That the said deposition was taken
8
before me at the time and place specified;
That the reading and signing by the
9
witness of the deposition transcript was agreed
upon as stated herein;
10
That I am not a relative or employee or
attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of
11
such attorney or counsel for any of the parties
hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in
12
the outcome of this action.
13
__________________________________
14
CORINNE T. MARUT, Certified Reporter
15
(The foregoing certification of this
16
transcript does not apply to any
reproduction of the same by any means, unless under
17
the direct control and/or supervision of the
certifying reporter.)
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 59
1
- - - - - -
E R R A T A
2
- - - - - -
3
4
PAGE LINE CHANGE
5
____ ____ ____________________________
6
REASON: ____________________________
7
____ ____ ____________________________
8
REASON: ____________________________
9
____ ____ ____________________________
10
REASON: ____________________________
11
____ ____ ____________________________
12
REASON: ____________________________
13
____ ____ ____________________________
14
REASON: ____________________________
15
____ ____ ____________________________
16
REASON: ____________________________
17
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18
REASON: ____________________________
19
____ ____ ____________________________
20
REASON: ____________________________
21
____ ____ ____________________________
22
REASON: ____________________________
23
____ ____ ____________________________
24
REASON: ____________________________
Page 58
1
INSTRUCTIONS TO WITNESS
2
3
Please read your deposition over
4
carefully and make any necessary corrections. You
5
should state the reason in the appropriate space on
6
the errata sheet for any corrections that are made.
7
After doing so, please sign the errata
8
sheet and date it.
9
You are signing same subject to the
10
changes you have noted on the errata sheet, which
11
will be attached to your deposition.
12
It is imperative that you return the
13
original errata sheet to the deposing attorney
14
within thirty (30) days of receipt of the
15
deposition transcript by you. If you fail to do
16
so, the deposition transcript may be deemed to be
17
accurate and may be used in court.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 60
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA
2
FORT WAYNE DIVISION
3
RYAN KLAASSEN, et al., )
4
)
Plaintiffs, )
5
) CASE NO.
-vs- ) 1:21-cv-00238
6
)
THE TRUSTEES OF INDIANA )
7
UNIVERSITY, )
)
8
Defendant. )
9
AFFIDAVIT
10
I, MARGARET ROTH, the undersigned
11
affiant, being first duly sworn, on oath say that
the testimony given at my deposition at the time
12
and place aforesaid is the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, and that I have read the
13
foregoing transcript consisting of Pages 1 to 61
inclusive, and do subscribe and make oath that the
14
same is a true, correct, and complete transcript of
my deposition so given as aforesaid, and includes
15
changes, if any, so made by me.
16
FURTHER AFFIANT SAITH NAUGHT.
17
_____________________________
18
AFFIANT, MARGARET ROTH
19
20
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me
21
this day of , A.D. 20 .
22
_____________________________________
23
Notary Public
24
USDC IN/ND case 1:21-cv-00238-DRL-SLC document 31-27 filed 07/12/21 page 15 of 16
16 (Page 61)
Page 61
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LAWYER'S NOTES
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____ ____ ____________________________
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