Court filing
TRANSCRIPT filed as to Defendant Richard Ayvazyan, Marietta Terabelian, Artur… — USA v. Ayvazyan et al (Dkt. 678)
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Central District of California |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2021-07-09 |
U.S. District Court for the Central District of California · No. 2:20-cr-00579-SVW · Doc. 678 · 2021-07-09 · Docket on CourtListener
Summary
A reporter's transcript of proceedings on day eight of the jury trial in United States v. Richard Ayvazyan, et al., No. 2:20-cr-00579-SVW, held June 25, 2021 in Los Angeles before Judge Stephen V. Wilson of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, Western Division, and filed July 9, 2021 as Document 678. The index lists no witnesses and no exhibits for the session. The court excuses the alternate jurors, sends the jury to deliberate, and hears the government's request to break out the two objects of each of the two conspiracy counts, counts 1 and 26, on the verdict form, which the court declines. Counsel also object to alias references remaining in the redacted indictment and move to strike them as surplusage. On a jury note the court proposes a Pinkerton instruction, citing United States v. Lothian and Levine v. United States. The transcript runs 36 pages.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
Full text
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA - WESTERN DIVISION
HONORABLE STEPHEN V. WILSON
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE PRESIDING
- - -
United States of America,
)
PLAINTIFF, )
)
VS. ) NO. CR 20-579 SVW
)
Richard Ayvazyan, et al.,
)
DEFENDANT, )
___________________________________)
REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
JURY TRIAL - DAY EIGHT
VOLUME 1 - A.M./P.M. SESSION
FRIDAY, JUNE 25, 2021
_____________________________________
KATIE E. THIBODEAUX, CSR 9858
U.S. Official Court Reporter
Suite 4311
350 West 1st Street
Los Angeles, CA 90012
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APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
BY: CATHERINE SUN AHN, AUSA
-and- SCOTT PAETTY, AUSA
312 North Spring Street
Twelfth Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90012
-and-
Christopher Fenton
US Department of Justice
1400 New York Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530
FOR DEFENDANT R. AYVAZYAN:
Ashwin J. Ram
Steptoe and Johnson LLP
633 West 5th Street
Suite 1900
Los Angeles, CA 90071
Meghan Newcomer
Steptoe and Johnson LLP
1114 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10036
Michael A. Keough
Steptoe and Johnson LLP
1 Market Street
Spear Tower Suite 3900
San Francisco, CA 94105
Nicholas P. Silverman
Steptoe and Johnson LLP
1330 Connecticut Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20036
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APPEARANCES (Cont'd):
FOR DEFENDANT TERABELIAN:
John Lewis Littrell
Bienert Katzman Littrell Williams LLP
903 Calle Amanecer
Suite 350
San Clemente, CA 92673
Ryan Vaughan Fraser
Bienert Katzman Littrell Williams LLP
601 West 5th Street
Suite 720
Los Angeles, CA 90071
FOR DEFENDANT ARTUR AYVAZYAN:
Jennifer J. Wirsching
1935 Alpha Road
Suite 216
Glendale, CA 91208
Thomas A. Mesereau, Jr.
Mesereau Law Group
10100 Santa Monica Boulevard
Suite 300
Los Angeles, CA 90067
FOR DEFENDANT VAHE DADYAN:
Peter Johnson
Law Office of Peter Johnson
409 North Pacific Coast Highway
Suite 651
Redondo Beach, CA 90277
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I N D E X
WITNESS NAME PAGE
(None.)
EXHIBIT I.D. IN EVID.
(None.)
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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, JUNE 25, 2021
9:26 A.M.
- - - - -
(The following proceedings were held in the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Good morning. Everyone is present,
the parties and counsel. The jury is present. The
alternates are here also; correct?
THE CLERK: Yes, they are all in the back row.
THE COURT: With regard to the alternates, the
alternates are where?
THE CLERK: In the back row there, your Honor.
THE COURT: I see. Thank you for your
participation in the trial. You have performed a
valuable role, being punctual, attentive, and you
performed your civic duties in the proper way. And on
behalf of the parties and counsel and the court, I want
to thank you all. But under the rules I can't allow you
to deliberate unless we have an unforeseen problem with
one of the 12 jurors.
So I am going to dismiss you with this
reservation that you be on call and available in the
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event, unlikely, in the event that we have to call you
back.
Is that okay? And thank you once again. If
you have any -- you didn't go to the jury room; correct?
I see. Nobody did. So you don't have any things in the
jury room; correct? You have all your personal
belongings?
All right. Then, thank you again. Don't talk
to anyone else at home or access anything because you may
be asked to come back. Unlikely, but you may be asked to
come back so keep my admonitions in mind.
Would you leave your notebooks if you took any
notes at your seat.
Yes, sir?
THE JUROR: Mine is left in the deliberation room,
your Honor.
THE CLERK: It can stay there.
THE COURT: Before I ask the jury to go back to
the jury room, would you go back first, retrieve your
book, and, then, after you leave the jury room, then the
other jurors can enter. Would that be okay.
THE JUROR: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: You can leave your notebooks in the
jury assembly room, and, then, if you are called, we can
give you your jury notes. And, if you are not, we will
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shred those notes. Okay. Thank you very much.
(The alternate jurors exited the courtroom.)
THE COURT: With the other jurors, I am going to
ask the jurors to deliberate.
Anyone have any objection?
MR. LITTRELL: No, your Honor.
MR. MESEREAU: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: Members of the jury, we will soon give
you a copy of the jury instructions, the indictment and
all the exhibits which have been received in evidence.
Would you retire to the jury room and begin
your deliberations. Thank you.
(The following proceedings were held outside the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Someone had an issue with the verdict
form? What was the comment?
MS. AHN: Yes, your Honor. It was really just to
the two conspiracy counts, counts 1 and 26.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. AHN: Each of those have two objects.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. AHN: So I would ask that it be broken out so
it is clear which object the jury is finding guilty as
to.
So, for example, for count 1 --
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THE COURT: Why is that necessary?
MS. AHN: Because otherwise it will be unclear
whether or not they found, for example, defendant Richard
Ayvazyan guilty of count 1 because of conspiracy to
commit wire fraud or because of conspiracy to commit bank
fraud or both, for example.
THE COURT: But the instruction says that the
jurors have to agree on the same object.
MS. AHN: Yes, your Honor, but it won't be clear
which object that is.
THE COURT: Why does it have to be clear if the
jury is instructed that they all have to agree on the
same object.
THE COURT: If they return a verdict, I mean the
verdict form is not a detailed questionnaire of how they
went about deciding each issue. It is essentially -- it
says follow the instructions, consider the evidence and
then check the box, whatever you conclude. Why is that
necessary?
MS. AHN: I think that I am not going to say that
it is absolutely necessary because I agree with your
Honor that the instructions are clear. I think it just
makes for a clearer record, your Honor.
THE COURT: I mean, I don't know why it makes for
a clearer record. I have never done that. I mean,
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because I have never done it doesn't mean it isn't to be
considered, but the whole notion of a jury trial is that
the jury follows the instructions and reaches a verdict.
MS. AHN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: I am inclined to leave it as it is.
Any statement from the defense?
MR. RAM: Yes, your Honor. I would suggest
leaving it as it is. If this was a situation where, you
know, like post-Skillings honest services is an object
and wire fraud is an object, and there is an issue on
appeal, with honest services, I can understand that.
That is not an issue in this case.
THE COURT: No. I think so.
MR. RAM: To the extent we are making any
modifications to this verdict form, I would ask for a
specific unanimity instruction on which conspiracy the
jury is finding. Something like that would actually make
sense in light of what we have heard in this case.
THE COURT: The instructions say that.
MR. RAM: No. No. Specific unanimity as to which
conspiracy. So the jury has heard -- and which scheme.
So they have heard evidence and argument related to there
being more than one agreement; right?
THE COURT: Oh.
MR. RAM: If we were going to do something, I
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would do that. But thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Recess from 9:35 to 10:44 a.m.)
(The following proceedings were held outside the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: We are present with parties and
counsel.
I have looked at the redacted indictment, and
it appears to me to be redacted as I instructed.
Does anyone think otherwise?
MR. LITTRELL: Yes, your Honor. I see a number of
aliases and AKAs still in the indictment.
THE COURT: Where?
MR. LITTRELL: I will go to the lecturn.
THE COURT: Yes. Please.
MR. LITTRELL: Here we go.
THE COURT: Just give me a page number. I have
the redacted indictment in my hand.
MR. LITTRELL: So page 2 in three places.
THE COURT: Page 2, did you say?
MR. LITTRELL: Yes.
MS. AHN: I think you may have the old version.
MR. LITTRELL: I'm sorry. I do have the old
version. I will go to the paragraphs.
So the first example is on page 6.
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THE COURT: One second. Let me get to it. Where
on page 6?
MR. LITTRELL: Page 6, Paragraph 22. It is on the
screen in front of you if that is helpful.
THE COURT: Line 22?
MR. LITTRELL: Yes. Paragraph 22. It says
"defendant R. Ayvazian controlled or was a signatory in
his legal name or using one of his aliases on the
following bank accounts." So it is stating the fact of
an alias as if it was sort of an established fact.
THE COURT: It is not. This is the indictment.
That is the government's theory, and that is how the
indictment came down. My concern was that in the caption
as the indictment was presented initially to me, they had
under the names AKA as though that was, you know, fact.
It is different than the body. If they say he was using
an alias.
If that is your objection, I am going to
reject it.
MR. LITTRELL: I suppose I would settle for using
an alias.
THE COURT: I am not going to change the
indictment. That is the indictment, and the indictment
is what it is. If the indictment accuses someone of
using an alias in connection with a loan, that is the way
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the indictment reads.
My concern was in the caption making it seem
like it was a done deal.
MR. LITTRELL: Understood, your Honor. Just for
the record I would make a motion --
THE COURT: All right. You have made your motion.
MR. LITTRELL: -- as surplusage under Federal Rule
of Procedure 7(d) referencing aliases.
THE COURT: You have made your motion.
Send this indictment to the jury.
MR. JOHNSON: Your Honor, on behalf of Vahe
Dadyan, we would join that objection.
THE COURT: All right. Everybody joins.
(Recess from 10:49 to 3:03 p.m.)
(The following proceedings were held outside the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: We are present with the parties and
counsel. We have received jury note, I think it is
No. 1. I can't read the writing of the juror. It is in
red, but, anyway, you have read the note. I will mark it
as court's Exhibit 1.
I have a thought about how to respond. Would
you be interested in my thought first before I hear from
you?
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, your Honor.
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THE COURT: My thought was to read the Pinkerton
instruction -- I think that is what they are getting
at -- with this caveat: After I read Pinkerton, I would
say "the defendant is criminally liable for any
underlying substantive offenses committed by the
co-conspirators during the defendant's membership in the
conspiracy. A defendant cannot be held liable for
substantive offenses committed before joining the
conspiracy."
That is a correct statement of the law, and I
looked it up. There are two cases, US versus Lothian,
976 F.2d, 1257, Ninth Circuit, and Levine versus United
States, Supreme Court case 383 U.S. 265, 1966 which holds
that a defendant cannot be liable for substantive
offenses committed before joining the conspiracy. But I
think that is the best I can do. I can't tell them how
much or whatever. I mean, there is no case that says
that, and it would be wrong for me to infer anything. So
I think --
Bring them back.
Yes. Mr. Johnson.
MR. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I would like an
opportunity to speak about whether the court's proposal
is an appropriate proposal. I am considering a different
proposal.
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THE COURT: That is why I called you here.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.
THE COURT: I am open to any suggestion. I didn't
hear anything. That is why I said get the jury. If you
have something to say, you are welcome to say it.
MR. JOHNSON: May I just have a moment to confer
with other defense counsel?
THE COURT: Yes. Do you need some time? Do you
want some time? I will leave and come back.
MR. LITTRELL: I don't think we need a lot of
time.
MR. SILVERMAN: He does not think that he needs a
lot of time, your Honor.
(Defense counsel confer.)
MR. JOHNSON: Your Honor, can the court repeat the
instruction that it is proposing?
THE COURT: Yes. I re-read the Pinkerton
instruction to them, and then say "a defendant is
criminally liable for any underlying substantive offenses
committed by co-conspirators during the defendant's
membership in the conspiracy. A defendant cannot be held
liable for substantive offenses committed" -- I think I
just noticed something. Give me a second.
Instead of saying "is," I am going to say "may
be" because that seems wrong.
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"A defendant may be criminally liable for any
underlying substantive offenses committed by
co-conspirators during the defendant's membership in the
conspiracy." This is after I read Pinkerton.
And, then, finally, "a defendant cannot be
held liable for substantive offenses committed before
joining the conspiracy."
MR. LITTRELL: One suggestion that we just, as you
reed it out, a defendant may be criminally liable for
substantive offenses that are foreseeable during that
person's membership in the conspiracy.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. LITTRELL: During and in furtherance.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. JOHNSON: I am having a problem.
THE COURT: What was that?
MR. JOHNSON: I was actually directing that to my
co-counsel. Not to the court.
MR. LITTRELL: I think we might see it
differently.
THE COURT: I mean I can take your thoughts
individually and collectively. However, you want to do
it.
MR. JOHNSON: I think it is probably appropriate
that we think through things.
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THE COURT: All right. If you want to think
through things, I will give you some time.
(Recess from 3:10 to 3:20 p.m.)
(The following proceedings were held outside the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Okay. I will hear the defendant's
suggestion.
MR. LITTRELL: Your Honor, what all defendants
agree, and I think the government agrees that the jury
should be instructed using the correct statement of law
that the court recited that is not in the instructions.
We all agree on that.
THE COURT: What do you mean by that?
MR. LITTRELL: So the court cited some cases and
gave sort of an extra layer of instruction about not
being liable for acts that predated one's membership.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. LITTRELL: We all agree that the court should
reed that to the jury.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. LITTRELL: There is some disagreement on the
rest. I think the defense position is that the court
should not single out any other instruction or read the
Pinkerton instruction. Just give that correct statement
of the law. And I know Mr. Mesereau would like the court
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to also read the reasonable doubt instruction as well.
THE COURT: I see. What is the government's view?
MR. FENTON: So, your Honor, we agree with your
initial recommendation which is to read the Pinkerton
instruction and then read the correct statement of law.
We think that in addition to that, it would be
appropriate to remind the jury that all of the
instructions should be considered and they should be
considered equally.
MR. LITTRELL: I think the only disagreement,
then, is whether the Pinkerton instruction should be read
on its own.
MR. JOHNSON: And I can articulate, your Honor,
that highlighting the Pinkerton instruction is really
anticipating or trying to predict what the jury may be
thinking, and I don't want to highlight one instruction
over another.
I think that having the correct statement of
the law is appropriate and also advising them to
generally review these instructions again.
This is Peter Johnson on behalf of Mr. Vahe
Dadyan.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. RAM: Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
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MR. RAM: One other approach is --
THE COURT: I know your suggestion --
(Laughter.)
THE COURT: -- is that you want a unanimity
instruction on multiple conspiracies. You believe that
the Freudian interpretation of what they wrote is that
they are now thinking about multiple conspiracies.
Is that it?
MR. RAM: No. So my proposal would be advise them
that you shouldn't focus on -- consider all the
instructions equally, the last piece that the government
proposed. Start with that. Then read the conspiracy
instructions implicated by their question. Then give
them the correct statement of the law as you read it and
then read the reasonable doubt instruction.
THE COURT: Well, I am not going to read
reasonable doubt because that is not what they asked
about.
The first part of the note says "if someone is
guilty of a conspiracy, how much of an active participant
must they be in the specific acts of wire fraud."
Look, the best way I think I can answer this
is to -- is to read the Pinkerton and then add just the
last sentence of what I said, "a defendant cannot be held
liable for substantive offenses before joining the
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conspiracy."
That is the best I can do. And then I will
tell them to consider all the instructions in deciding
the case.
All right. Bring me the jury.
MR. LITTRELL: I just want to make sure it
predates that defendant's joining of the conspiracy. The
court just read --
THE COURT: Okay. That is a good suggestion.
Cannot be held liable for acts committed before that
defendant's -- before that defendant -- before a
defendant joined the conspiracy.
I can't say that. Doesn't make sense. Say
committed before a defendant which focuses then on each
defendant.
MR. LITTRELL: But --
THE COURT: Before a particular defendant joined
the conspiracy.
MR. LITTRELL: I worry that --
MS. AHN: I'm sorry, your Honor. Do you mind
re-reading the sentencing again?
THE COURT: Gosh. The way I have it now, "a
defendant cannot be held liable for substantive offenses
committed before joining the conspiracy."
What is unclear about that?
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MR. LITTRELL: Actually, that is not bad. That is
fine.
THE COURT: It is clear.
Bring the jury in. No more. No more. That
is it.
(The following proceedings were held in the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Members of the jury, I received a note
from your foreperson. I have read the note, and I can't
engage in a colloquy with you. That is just not allowed.
So the best way I think I can answer your
question is the way I am going to answer it. But you
should, of course, as I have said many times, not read
into anything I say in this response as any indication of
what you should do. That is a matter entirely up to you.
But, in answering your question as best I can,
I will do it as follows: I am going to refer again to
Instruction 23.
Each member of a conspiracy is responsible for
the actions of the other conspirators performed during
the course of and in furtherance of the conspiracy. If
one member of a conspiracy commits a crime in furtherance
of a conspiracy, the other members have also, under the
law, committed the crime. Therefore, you may find a
defendant guilty of the crime charged in the indictment
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if the government has proved each of the following
elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
First, someone committed the crime; second,
that person was a member of a conspiracy charged in the
indictment; third, that person performed the crime in
furtherance of that conspiracy; fourth, that person and
the defendant were members of that same conspiracy at the
time that the crime was committed; and, fifth, the crime
fell within the scope of that conspiracy and could
reasonably have been foreseen by the defendant to be a
necessary or natural consequence of the conspiracy. A
defendant cannot be held liable for substantive offenses
committed before joining the conspiracy.
And, again, as I told you, you should consider
all the instructions in reaching your verdict.
So that is the best I can do. I hope it
helps. You are now to continue your deliberations.
Thank you.
(The following proceedings were held outside the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Did the lawyers see the other note,
Paul? Maybe we should give them a chance to see the
other note and the government, and then I will get back
to them.
(Recess from 3:35 to 3:50 p.m.)
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THE COURT: Okay. We received jury Note 2. Here
is how I propose to respond to it, and then I will get
your input:
At this point, you should continue your
deliberations. The court can accept a partial verdict
but only if further deliberations would not enable you to
reach a verdict on the remaining counts as to defendants.
So at this time, I encourage you to further deliberate.
Any thoughts?
MR. FENTON: Your Honor, the government
believes -- we would agree that you should direct the
jury to continue to deliberate, but we would not include
those additional -- anything beyond just directing them
to continue to deliberate at this early stage.
THE COURT: I shouldn't say anything about I can
accept a partial verdict?
MR. FENTON: No. Not at this time.
THE COURT: Yes. What is your view? I mean that
is the question. I am not answering their question by
telling them to further deliberate.
MR. JOHNSON: Your Honor, this is Peter Johnson.
I only speak for Vahe Dadyan.
I agree with the court's proposed instruction.
I would ask, also ask that the court send back a written
instruction as to the last sentence that the court added
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to the Pinkerton instruction because --
THE COURT: Say that again. I am not
understanding you.
MR. JOHNSON: The court added a sentence to the
Pinkerton instruction.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. JOHNSON: But the court only advised the jury
that it was re-reading the Pinkerton instruction at 23.
What some jurors might go back and look at is that that
language is actually not in there.
THE COURT: Is not in where?
MR. JOHNSON: Not back there with them.
THE COURT: But I told them. That wasn't
complicated. I think it is adequate. Okay. All right.
I am going to -- do any of defendants have any objection
to the way I am going to read the note?
MR. MESEREAU: Tom Mesereau on behalf of Artur
Ayvazian. We like the court's suggested language.
MR. LITTRELL: Same for Mary Terabelian.
THE COURT: Okay. I am going to do it. I am
going to actually write this out. I am trying to use my
best penmanship.
MR. FRASER: Your Honor, Ryan Fraser on behalf of
Marietta Terabelian. In following up to the request that
was made on behalf of Vahe Dadyan, as an alternative to
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sending back in writing the final sentence of the court's
response to the first jury question, if the court would
perhaps specifically identify the last sentence as being
in addition to the Pinkerton charge, I think that will
assist the jury.
THE COURT: All right. Let me get this out, and I
will --
MR. FRASER: Thank you.
THE COURT: I am not going to say anything further
about the first note. No one made that suggestion at the
time, and I think my answer was clear and I am not going
to muddle it further.
Send this back to the jury, Paul, and have the
lawyers stand by.
(Court and clerk confer.)
MR. LITTRELL: Your Honor, can we take a look at
the note before it goes back?
THE COURT: Okay. Take a look at it.
(Recess from 3:57 to 4:41 p.m.)
(The following proceedings were held outside the
presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: I did tell the jury -- they asked if
they could continue to 6:00. I said okay. You may all
be seated. Thank you.
The reason I asked you to come here is in the
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event there is a guilty verdict, frankly, I have never
had the experience of, to my memory, of a criminal
forfeiture following a verdict.
And let me ask the government, first, what is
involved with that? I mean, how do you make the
presentation?
MR. BOYLE: Assuming the jury returns a verdict
and convicts at least one count that touches on property
subject to forfeiture --
THE COURT: Which count is that again?
MR. BOYLE: All of the counts in the indictment
with the exception of the last money laundering counts of
the indictment.
THE COURT: All right. On the possibility of
that, what happens on -- how do you present that part of
it.
MR. BOYLE: Yes, your Honor. The first thing we
would ask is that the court give an immediate jury
instruction to the jury telling them that there is
another phase to trial so that they don't just disappear.
THE COURT: I mean that is a given. So go from
there.
MR. BOYLE: And we submitted a proposed jury
instruction a couple of weeks back.
THE COURT: But is it just a jury instruction? Is
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that all there is to do?
MR. BOYLE: No, your Honor. The government is
then -- well, the government and the defense are then
entitled to put on additional evidence that didn't come
in during the guilt phase.
In this case, I don't believe that would be
more than maybe 30 minutes. The government expects to
put Ms. Robinson, the summary witness, back on to explain
some additional summary charts. Maybe 20 to 30 minutes
of direct. I can't predict cross. The defendant would
then have their opportunity to put on evidence they want
to.
THE COURT: What evidence -- what type of evidence
is usually presented by defendants in these cases?
MR. BOYLE: They are entitled to put on evidence.
THE COURT: Somebody is getting up so you have an
idea --
MR. RAM: Right. So the big picture, evidence the
defense would put on challenges the nexus between the
property alleged in the bill of particulars versus the
counts of conviction and things that would chip away from
the nexus.
So, for example, one of the pieces of property
that the court is aware of is $450,000 in cash. So the
question is what nexus can the government show that would
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connect this 450,000 in cash specifically to the count of
conviction.
THE COURT: Is that the money that was tossed
during the search?
MR. RAM: Correct. So the proceedings generally
go as if the evidence presented in the underlying trial
is essentially incorporated into the forfeiture
proceeding, and the defense and government would provide
additional evidence through witnesses or charts.
THE COURT: Well, the government says it will
produce additional evidence through this accountant
Robinson, and they anticipate it being a half-hour or so.
Do you anticipate cross-examining her?
MR. RAM: We do. And we would probably put on
affirmative evidence as well with specific items of
property, and, then, there would be both -- and there
would be a closing argument.
THE COURT: I see. And just roughly how long do
you think it would -- your presentation would take?
MR. RAM: To be honest, I really don't know. I am
not in a position to inform the court. I think,
realistically, we would start the proceedings next week,
and it just depends on what the counts of conviction are
and the property linked to those counts. It could be
very short. It could be a longer process. Because we
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have to defend the nexus on each specific piece of
property that is subject to forfeiture.
THE COURT: Isn't it more argument, or is it more
evidence?
MR. RAM: It is both, your Honor. So, for
example, let's say this -- the gold coin you saw. If a
store owner comes in and says I sold them that gold coin
in 2019, it cannot -- if there is a reasonable debate of
was that coin from 2019 or -- that is the nexus.
THE COURT: Is that just a hypothetical?
MR. RAM: That was a hypothetical. But that is
essentially what is involved in a forfeiture mini trial.
THE COURT: I see. And, then, there is a jury
instruction, I guess; right? Have the parties agreed on
a jury instruction?
MR. RAM: We have not agreed yet. I have not even
looked at the forfeiture instructions. I was planning on
winning, but, in case, that doesn't happen I will take a
look at the forfeiture instructions with counsel.
MR. BOYLE: And I will represent to the court that
the forfeiture jury instructions that we submitted, they
were mostly based on a -- we obviously can't predict what
counts will result in convictions if any. So we would
certainly need to amend those forfeiture jury
instructions to match the actual counts.
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THE COURT: Would the substance of the instruction
be the same.
MR. BOYLE: I don't expect there would be
significant changes other than certain jury instructions
pertain to certain counts of conviction so, for example,
if the defendants were not convicted of money laundering,
we would remove that jury instruction. But the
instructions themselves would not be substantially
changed.
THE COURT: Now, I was focused on the instructions
for the trial. I can't remember reviewing that
instruction. Did you include that in the packet, or is
that something new?
MS. AHN: Yes, your Honor. It was included in the
government's first set of proposed jury instructions.
THE COURT: I see. If you proposed it, then we
have it. Okay.
I just signed the jury note with one word.
Yes.
(Recess at 4:50 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE
I hereby certify that pursuant to Section 753, Title 28,
United States Code, the foregoing is a true and correct
transcript of the stenographically reported proceedings held
in the above-entitled matter and that the transcript page
format is in conformance with the regulations of the
Judicial Conference of the United States.
Date: June 27, 2021
/s/ Katie Thibodeaux, CSR No. 9858, RPR, CRR
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MR. BOYLE: [8] 25/6 25/10
25/16 25/22 26/1 26/14 28/19
29/2
MR. FENTON: [3] 17/2 22/9
22/16
MR. FRASER: [2] 23/22 24/7
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MR. LITTRELL: [27]
MR. MESEREAU: [2] 7/6 23/16
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19/19 29/13
THE CLERK: [3] 5/11 5/14
6/16
THE COURT: [86]
THE JUROR: [2] 6/14 6/21
$
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deliberations [4] 7/12 21/17
22/5 22/6
DEPARTMENT [2] 2/4 2/9
depends [1] 27/23
detailed [1] 8/15
did [5] 6/5 10/20 21/21
24/22 29/12
didn't [3] 6/4 14/3 26/4
different [2] 11/16 13/24
differently [1] 15/20
direct [2] 22/11 26/10
directing [2] 15/17 22/13
disagreement [2] 16/21 17/10
disappear [1] 25/20
dismiss [1] 5/24
DISTRICT [3] 1/1 1/2 1/4
DIVISION [1] 1/2
do [21]
does [3] 8/11 10/10 14/12
doesn't [3] 9/1 19/13 28/18
don't [9] 6/5 6/8 8/24 14/10
17/16 25/20 26/6 27/20 29/3
done [3] 8/25 9/1 12/3
doubt [4] 17/1 18/15 18/17
21/2
down [1] 11/13
during [8] 13/6 14/20 15/3
15/10 15/13 20/20 26/5 27/4
duties [1] 5/19
E
each [6] 7/20 8/16 19/14
20/19 21/1 28/1
early [1] 22/14
EIGHT [1] 1/15
elements [1] 21/2
else [1] 6/9
enable [1] 22/6
encourage [1] 22/8
engage [1] 20/10
enter [1] 6/21
entirely [1] 20/15
entitled [3] 26/4 26/15 30/7
equally [2] 17/9 18/11
essentially [3] 8/16 27/7
28/12
established [1] 11/10
et [1] 1/9
even [1] 28/16
event [3] 6/1 6/1 25/1
Everybody [1] 12/13
Everyone [1] 5/9
EVID [1] 4/6
evidence [14] 7/10 8/17 9/22
26/4 26/11 26/13 26/13 26/15
26/18 27/6 27/9 27/11 27/15
28/4
examining [1] 27/13
example [7] 7/25 8/3 8/6
10/25 26/23 28/6 29/5
exception [1] 25/12
EXHIBIT [2] 4/6 12/21
exhibits [1] 7/10
exited [1] 7/2
expect [1] 29/3
expects [1] 26/7
experience [1] 25/2
explain [1] 26/8
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extent [1] 9/14
extra [1] 16/15
F
F.2d [1] 13/12
fact [3] 11/9 11/10 11/15
Federal [1] 12/7
fell [1] 21/9
Fenton [1] 2/9
fifth [1] 21/8
final [1] 24/1
finally [1] 15/5
find [1] 20/24
finding [2] 7/23 9/17
fine [1] 20/2
first [10] 6/19 10/25 12/23
18/19 21/3 24/2 24/10 25/4
25/17 29/15
Floor [1] 2/6
focus [1] 18/10
focused [1] 29/10
focuses [1] 19/14
follow [1] 8/17
following [12] 5/7 7/13 10/4
11/9 12/15 16/4 20/6 21/1
21/19 23/24 24/20 25/3
follows [2] 9/3 20/17
foregoing [1] 30/5
foreperson [1] 20/9
foreseeable [1] 15/10
foreseen [1] 21/10
forfeiture [9] 25/3 25/9
27/7 28/2 28/12 28/17 28/19
28/21 28/24
form [3] 7/16 8/15 9/15
format [1] 30/8
found [1] 8/3
fourth [1] 21/6
Francisco [1] 2/21
frankly [1] 25/1
Fraser [2] 3/7 23/23
fraud [4] 8/5 8/6 9/10 18/21
Freudian [1] 18/6
FRIDAY [2] 1/17 5/1
front [1] 11/4
further [5] 22/6 22/8 22/20
24/9 24/12
furtherance [4] 15/13 20/21
20/22 21/6
G
gave [1] 16/15
generally [2] 17/20 27/5
get [5] 11/1 14/4 21/23 22/2
24/6
getting [2] 13/2 26/16
give [9] 6/25 7/8 10/17
14/23 16/2 16/24 18/13 21/22
25/18
given [1] 25/21
Glendale [1] 3/13
go [9] 6/4 6/18 6/19 10/14
10/16 10/24 23/9 25/21 27/6
goes [1] 24/17
going [16]
gold [2] 28/6 28/7
good [2] 5/9 19/9
Gosh [1] 19/22
government [12] 16/9 18/11
21/1 21/23 22/10 25/4 26/2
26/3 26/7 26/25 27/8 27/10
government's [3] 11/12 17/2
29/15
Group [1] 3/15
guess [1] 28/14
guilt [1] 26/5
guilty [5] 7/23 8/4 18/20
20/25 25/1
H
had [3] 7/15 11/14 25/2
half [1] 27/12
half-hour [1] 27/12
hand [1] 10/18
happen [1] 28/18
happens [1] 25/15
has [2] 9/21 21/1
have [42]
having [2] 15/15 17/18
he [3] 11/16 14/12 14/12
hear [3] 12/23 14/4 16/6
heard [3] 9/18 9/21 9/22
held [16]
helpful [1] 11/4
helps [1] 21/17
her [1] 27/13
here [5] 5/11 10/16 14/1
22/1 24/25
hereby [1] 30/4
highlight [1] 17/16
highlighting [1] 17/14
Highway [1] 3/20
his [2] 11/8 11/8
holds [1] 13/13
home [1] 6/9
honest [3] 9/9 9/11 27/20
Honor [32]
HONORABLE [1] 1/3
hope [1] 21/16
hour [1] 27/12
how [9] 8/15 11/12 12/22
13/16 18/20 22/2 25/5 25/15
27/18
However [1] 15/22
hypothetical [2] 28/10 28/11
I
I'm [2] 10/23 19/20
I.D [1] 4/6
idea [1] 26/17
identify [1] 24/3
immediate [1] 25/18
implicated [1] 18/13
inclined [1] 9/5
include [2] 22/12 29/12
included [1] 29/14
incorporated [1] 27/7
indication [1] 20/14
indictment [17]
individually [1] 15/22
infer [1] 13/18
inform [1] 27/21
initial [1] 17/4
initially [1] 11/14
input [1] 22/3
Instead [1] 14/24
instructed [3] 8/12 10/9
16/10
instruction [29]
instructions [20]
interested [1] 12/23
interpretation [1] 18/6
involved [2] 25/5 28/12
is [117]
isn't [2] 9/1 28/3
issue [4] 7/15 8/16 9/10
9/12
it [73]
items [1] 27/15
its [1] 17/12
J
Jennifer [1] 3/12
John [1] 3/4
Johnson [9] 2/14 2/17 2/19
2/22 3/19 3/20 13/21 17/21
22/21
join [1] 12/12
joined [2] 19/12 19/17
joining [7] 13/8 13/15 15/7
18/25 19/7 19/24 21/13
joins [1] 12/13
Jr [1] 3/14
JUDGE [1] 1/4
Judicial [1] 30/9
JUNE [3] 1/17 5/1 30/10
juror [1] 12/19
jurors [7] 5/23 6/21 7/2 7/3
7/4 8/8 23/9
jury [56]
just [19]
JUSTICE [2] 2/4 2/9
K
KATIE [2] 1/21 30/12
Katzman [2] 3/4 3/7
keep [1] 6/11
Keough [1] 2/19
know [6] 8/24 9/9 11/15
16/25 18/2 27/20
L
language [2] 23/10 23/18
last [5] 18/11 18/24 22/25
24/3 25/12
Laughter [1] 18/3
laundering [2] 25/12 29/6
law [9] 3/15 3/20 13/10
16/10 16/25 17/5 17/19 18/14
20/24
lawyers [2] 21/21 24/14
layer [1] 16/15
least [1] 25/8
leave [5] 6/12 6/20 6/23 9/5
14/9
leaving [1] 9/8
lecturn [1] 10/14
left [1] 6/15
legal [1] 11/8
let [3] 11/1 24/6 25/4
let's [1] 28/6
Levine [1] 13/12
Lewis [1] 3/4
liable [13] 13/4 13/7 13/14
14/19 14/22 15/1 15/6 15/9
16/16 18/25 19/10 19/23
21/12
light [1] 9/18
like [6] 9/9 9/17 12/3 13/22
16/25 23/18
Line [1] 11/5
Line 22 [1] 11/5
linked [1] 27/24
Littrell [3] 3/4 3/4 3/7
LLP [6] 2/14 2/17 2/19 2/22
3/4 3/7
loan [1] 11/25
long [1] 27/18
longer [1] 27/25
look [5] 18/22 23/9 24/16
24/18 28/19
looked [3] 10/8 13/11 28/17
LOS [7] 1/14 1/23 2/7 2/15
3/9 3/16 5/1
lot [2] 14/10 14/13
Lothian [1] 13/11
M
made [4] 12/6 12/9 23/25
24/10
make [5] 9/17 12/5 19/6
19/13 25/5
makes [2] 8/23 8/24
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making [2] 9/14 12/2
many [1] 20/13
Marietta [1] 23/24
mark [1] 12/20
Market [1] 2/20
Mary [1] 23/19
match [1] 28/25
matter [2] 20/15 30/7
may [10] 6/9 6/10 10/22 14/6
14/24 15/1 15/9 17/15 20/24
24/23
maybe [3] 21/22 26/7 26/9
me [9] 10/9 10/17 11/1 11/14
13/18 14/23 19/5 24/6 25/4
mean [10] 8/14 8/24 8/25 9/1
13/17 15/21 16/13 22/18 25/5
25/21
Meghan [1] 2/16
member [3] 20/19 20/22 21/4
members [4] 7/8 20/8 20/23
21/7
membership [5] 13/6 14/21
15/3 15/11 16/16
memory [1] 25/2
Mesereau [4] 3/14 3/15 16/25
23/17
Michael [1] 2/19
might [2] 15/19 23/9
mind [2] 6/11 19/20
Mine [1] 6/15
mini [1] 28/12
minutes [2] 26/7 26/9
modifications [1] 9/15
moment [1] 14/6
money [3] 25/12 27/3 29/6
Monica [1] 3/15
more [6] 9/23 20/4 20/4 26/7
28/3 28/3
morning [1] 5/9
mostly [1] 28/22
motion [3] 12/5 12/6 12/9
Mr. [3] 13/21 16/25 17/21
Mr. Johnson [1] 13/21
Mr. Mesereau [1] 16/25
Mr. Vahe [1] 17/21
Ms. [1] 26/8
Ms. Robinson [1] 26/8
much [3] 7/1 13/17 18/20
muddle [1] 24/12
multiple [2] 18/5 18/7
must [1] 18/21
my [11] 6/11 10/18 11/13
12/2 12/23 13/1 15/17 18/9
23/21 24/11 25/2
N
name [2] 4/3 11/8
names [1] 11/15
natural [1] 21/11
necessary [4] 8/1 8/19 8/21
21/11
need [3] 14/8 14/10 28/24
needs [1] 14/12
never [3] 8/25 9/1 25/1
new [3] 2/10 2/18 29/13
Newcomer [1] 2/16
next [1] 27/22
nexus [5] 26/19 26/22 26/25
28/1 28/9
Nicholas [1] 2/22
Ninth [1] 13/12
no [14] 1/8 7/6 7/7 9/13
9/20 9/20 13/17 18/9 20/4
20/4 22/17 24/10 26/2 30/12
No. [1] 12/19
No. 1 [1] 12/19
Nobody [1] 6/5
None [2] 4/4 4/7
North [2] 2/6 3/20
not [32]
note [12] 12/18 12/20 18/19
20/8 20/9 21/21 21/23 22/1
23/16 24/10 24/17 29/18
notebooks [2] 6/12 6/23
notes [3] 6/13 6/25 7/1
noticed [1] 14/23
notion [1] 9/2
now [4] 18/7 19/22 21/17
29/10
number [2] 10/11 10/17
NW [2] 2/10 2/23
NY [1] 2/18
O
object [6] 7/23 8/8 8/10
8/13 9/9 9/10
objection [4] 7/5 11/18
12/12 23/15
objects [1] 7/20
obviously [1] 28/22
offenses [11] 13/5 13/8
13/15 14/19 14/22 15/2 15/6
15/10 18/25 19/23 21/12
OFFICE [2] 2/4 3/20
Official [1] 1/21
Oh [1] 9/24
okay [14] 6/3 6/21 7/1 10/2
15/12 15/14 16/6 19/9 22/1
23/14 23/20 24/18 24/23
29/17
old [2] 10/22 10/23
once [1] 6/3
one [12] 5/23 9/23 11/1 11/8
15/8 17/16 18/1 20/22 24/10
25/8 26/23 29/18
one's [1] 16/16
only [4] 17/10 22/6 22/22
23/7
open [1] 14/3
opportunity [2] 13/23 26/11
other [10] 6/21 7/3 14/7
16/23 18/1 20/20 20/23 21/21
21/23 29/4
otherwise [2] 8/2 10/10
out [5] 7/22 15/9 16/23
23/21 24/6
outside [6] 7/13 10/4 12/15
16/4 21/19 24/20
over [1] 17/17
own [1] 17/12
owner [1] 28/7
P
p.m [6] 1/16 12/14 16/3
21/25 24/19 29/20
Pacific [1] 3/20
packet [1] 29/12
PAETTY [1] 2/5
page [8] 4/3 10/17 10/19
10/20 10/25 11/2 11/3 30/7
Paragraph [2] 11/3 11/6
Paragraph 22 [2] 11/3 11/6
paragraphs [1] 10/24
part [2] 18/19 25/15
partial [2] 22/5 22/16
participant [1] 18/20
participation [1] 5/17
particular [1] 19/17
particulars [1] 26/20
parties [5] 5/10 5/20 10/6
12/17 28/14
Paul [2] 21/22 24/13
penmanship [1] 23/22
performed [4] 5/17 5/19
20/20 21/5
perhaps [1] 24/3
person [3] 21/4 21/5 21/6
person's [1] 15/11
personal [1] 6/6
pertain [1] 29/5
Peter [4] 3/19 3/20 17/21
22/21
phase [2] 25/20 26/5
picture [1] 26/18
piece [2] 18/11 28/1
pieces [1] 26/23
Pinkerton [13] 13/1 13/3
14/17 15/4 16/24 17/4 17/11
17/14 18/23 23/1 23/5 23/8
24/4
places [1] 10/19
PLAINTIFF [2] 1/7 2/3
planning [1] 28/17
Please [1] 10/15
point [1] 22/4
position [2] 16/22 27/21
possibility [1] 25/14
post [1] 9/9
post-Skillings [1] 9/9
predated [1] 16/16
predates [1] 19/7
predict [3] 17/15 26/10
28/22
presence [8] 5/8 7/14 10/5
12/16 16/5 20/7 21/20 24/21
present [5] 5/9 5/10 10/6
12/17 25/15
presentation [2] 25/6 27/19
presented [3] 11/14 26/14
27/6
PRESIDING [1] 1/4
probably [2] 15/24 27/14
problem [2] 5/22 15/15
Procedure [1] 12/8
proceeding [1] 27/8
proceedings [12] 1/13 5/7
7/13 10/4 12/15 16/4 20/6
21/19 24/20 27/5 27/22 30/6
process [1] 27/25
produce [1] 27/11
proper [1] 5/19
property [6] 25/8 26/20
26/23 27/16 27/24 28/2
proposal [4] 13/23 13/24
13/25 18/9
propose [1] 22/2
proposed [5] 18/12 22/23
25/23 29/15 29/16
proposing [1] 14/16
proved [1] 21/1
provide [1] 27/8
punctual [1] 5/18
pursuant [1] 30/4
put [6] 26/4 26/8 26/11
26/15 26/19 27/14
Q
question [7] 18/13 20/12
20/16 22/19 22/19 24/2 26/25
questionnaire [1] 8/15
R
Ram [1] 2/13
re [3] 14/17 19/21 23/8
re-read [1] 14/17
re-reading [2] 19/21 23/8
reach [1] 22/7
reaches [1] 9/3
reaching [1] 21/15
read [20]
reading [2] 19/21 23/8
reads [1] 12/1
realistically [1] 27/22
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really [3] 7/17 17/14 27/20
reason [1] 24/25
reasonable [5] 17/1 18/15
18/17 21/2 28/8
reasonably [1] 21/10
received [4] 7/10 12/18 20/8
22/1
Recess [6] 10/3 12/14 16/3
21/25 24/19 29/20
recited [1] 16/11
recommendation [1] 17/4
record [3] 8/23 8/25 12/5
red [1] 12/20
redacted [3] 10/8 10/9 10/18
Redondo [1] 3/21
reed [2] 15/9 16/19
refer [1] 20/17
referencing [1] 12/8
regard [1] 5/13
regulations [1] 30/8
reject [1] 11/19
related [1] 9/22
remaining [1] 22/7
remember [1] 29/11
remind [1] 17/7
remove [1] 29/7
repeat [1] 14/15
reported [1] 30/6
Reporter [1] 1/21
REPORTER'S [1] 1/13
represent [1] 28/20
request [1] 23/24
reservation [1] 5/25
respond [2] 12/22 22/2
response [2] 20/14 24/2
responsible [1] 20/19
rest [1] 16/22
result [1] 28/23
retire [1] 7/11
retrieve [1] 6/19
return [1] 8/14
returns [1] 25/7
review [1] 17/20
reviewing [1] 29/11
Richard [2] 1/9 8/3
right [12] 6/8 9/23 12/6
12/13 16/1 17/23 19/5 23/14
24/6 25/14 26/18 28/14
Road [1] 3/12
Robinson [2] 26/8 27/12
role [1] 5/18
room [7] 6/4 6/6 6/15 6/19
6/20 6/24 7/11
roughly [1] 27/18
row [2] 5/12 5/15
RPR [1] 30/12
Rule [1] 12/7
rules [1] 5/21
Ryan [2] 3/7 23/23
S
said [4] 14/4 18/24 20/13
24/23
same [5] 8/8 8/13 21/7 23/19
29/2
San [2] 2/21 3/6
Santa [1] 3/15
saw [1] 28/6
say [16]
saying [1] 14/24
says [7] 8/7 8/17 11/6 13/17
18/19 27/10 28/7
scheme [1] 9/21
scope [1] 21/9
SCOTT [1] 2/5
screen [1] 11/4
search [1] 27/4
seat [1] 6/13
seated [1] 24/24
second [3] 11/1 14/23 21/3
Section [1] 30/4
see [10] 5/16 6/5 10/11
15/19 17/2 21/21 21/22 27/18
28/13 29/16
seem [1] 12/2
seems [1] 14/25
send [3] 12/10 22/24 24/13
sending [1] 24/1
sense [2] 9/18 19/13
sentence [5] 18/24 22/25
23/4 24/1 24/3
sentencing [1] 19/21
services [2] 9/9 9/11
SESSION [1] 1/16
set [1] 29/15
settle [1] 11/20
short [1] 27/25
should [12] 16/10 16/18
16/23 17/8 17/8 17/11 20/13
20/15 21/14 21/22 22/4 22/11
shouldn't [2] 18/10 22/15
show [1] 26/25
shred [1] 7/1
signatory [1] 11/7
signed [1] 29/18
significant [1] 29/4
Silverman [1] 2/22
single [1] 16/23
sir [1] 6/14
situation [1] 9/8
Skillings [1] 9/9
so [30]
sold [1] 28/7
some [7] 14/8 14/9 16/2
16/14 16/21 23/9 26/9
Somebody [1] 26/16
someone [4] 7/15 11/24 18/19
21/3
something [5] 9/17 9/25 14/5
14/23 29/13
soon [1] 7/8
sorry [2] 10/23 19/20
sort [2] 11/10 16/15
speak [2] 13/23 22/22
Spear [1] 2/20
specific [5] 9/16 9/20 18/21
27/15 28/1
specifically [2] 24/3 27/1
Spring [1] 2/6
stage [1] 22/14
stand [1] 24/14
start [2] 18/12 27/22
statement [7] 9/6 13/10
16/10 16/24 17/5 17/18 18/14
STATES [7] 1/1 1/4 1/6 2/3
13/13 30/5 30/9
stating [1] 11/9
stay [1] 6/17
stenographically [1] 30/6
STEPHEN [1] 1/3
Steptoe [4] 2/14 2/17 2/19
2/22
still [1] 10/12
store [1] 28/7
Street [5] 1/22 2/6 2/14
2/20 3/8
subject [2] 25/9 28/2
submitted [2] 25/23 28/21
substance [1] 29/1
substantially [1] 29/8
substantive [11] 13/5 13/8
13/14 14/19 14/22 15/2 15/6
15/10 18/25 19/23 21/12
suggest [1] 9/7
suggested [1] 23/18
suggestion [6] 14/3 15/8
16/7 18/2 19/9 24/10
Suite [8] 1/22 2/15 2/20 3/5
3/8 3/13 3/16 3/21
summary [2] 26/8 26/9
SUN [1] 2/5
suppose [1] 11/20
Supreme [1] 13/13
sure [1] 19/6
surplusage [1] 12/7
SVW [1] 1/8
T
take [5] 15/21 24/16 24/18
27/19 28/18
talk [1] 6/8
tell [3] 13/16 19/3 24/22
telling [2] 22/20 25/19
TERABELIAN [3] 3/3 23/19
23/24
than [4] 9/23 11/16 26/7
29/4
thank [11] 5/16 5/21 6/3 6/8
7/1 7/12 10/1 14/2 21/18
24/8 24/24
that [135]
their [3] 18/13 22/19 26/11
them [15] 13/16 13/20 14/18
17/19 18/9 18/14 19/3 21/22
21/24 22/13 22/20 23/12
23/13 25/19 28/7
themselves [1] 29/8
then [23]
theory [1] 11/12
there [18]
Therefore [1] 20/24
these [2] 17/20 26/14
they [21]
THIBODEAUX [2] 1/21 30/12
thing [1] 25/17
things [4] 6/5 15/25 16/2
26/21
think [28]
thinking [2] 17/16 18/7
third [1] 21/5
this [24]
Thomas [1] 3/14
those [5] 7/1 7/20 22/13
27/24 28/24
though [1] 11/15
thought [3] 12/22 12/23 13/1
thoughts [2] 15/21 22/9
three [1] 10/19
through [4] 15/25 16/2 27/9
27/11
time [9] 14/8 14/9 14/11
14/13 16/2 21/8 22/8 22/17
24/11
times [1] 20/13
Title [1] 30/4
told [2] 21/14 23/13
Tom [1] 23/17
took [1] 6/12
tossed [1] 27/3
touches [1] 25/8
Tower [1] 2/20
transcript [3] 1/13 30/6
30/7
trial [7] 1/15 5/17 9/2
25/20 27/6 28/12 29/11
true [1] 30/5
trying [2] 17/15 23/21
Twelfth [1] 2/6
two [3] 7/18 7/20 13/11
type [1] 26/13
U
U.S [4] 1/21 2/4 2/4 13/13
unanimity [3] 9/16 9/20 18/4
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U
unclear [2] 8/2 19/25
under [4] 5/21 11/15 12/7
20/23
underlying [4] 13/5 14/19
15/2 27/6
understand [1] 9/11
understanding [1] 23/3
Understood [1] 12/4
unforeseen [1] 5/22
UNITED [7] 1/1 1/4 1/6 2/3
13/12 30/5 30/9
unless [1] 5/22
unlikely [2] 6/1 6/10
up [4] 13/11 20/15 23/24
26/16
US [2] 2/9 13/11
use [1] 23/21
using [5] 11/8 11/16 11/20
11/25 16/10
usually [1] 26/14
V
VAHE [5] 3/18 12/11 17/21
22/22 23/25
valuable [1] 5/18
Vaughan [1] 3/7
verdict [12] 7/15 8/14 8/15
9/3 9/15 21/15 22/5 22/7
22/16 25/1 25/3 25/7
version [2] 10/22 10/24
versus [3] 13/11 13/12 26/20
very [2] 7/1 27/25
view [2] 17/2 22/18
VOLUME [1] 1/16
W
want [8] 5/20 14/9 15/22
16/1 17/16 18/4 19/6 26/11
was [25]
Washington [2] 2/10 2/23
wasn't [1] 23/13
way [7] 5/19 11/25 18/22
19/22 20/11 20/12 23/16
we [39]
week [1] 27/22
weeks [1] 25/24
welcome [1] 14/5
well [5] 17/1 18/16 26/3
27/10 27/15
went [1] 8/16
were [12] 5/7 7/13 9/25 10/4
12/15 16/4 20/6 21/7 21/19
24/20 28/22 29/6
West [3] 1/22 2/14 3/8
WESTERN [1] 1/2
what [24]
whatever [2] 8/18 13/17
where [5] 5/14 9/8 10/13
11/1 23/11
whether [3] 8/3 13/23 17/11
which [10] 7/10 7/23 8/10
9/16 9/20 9/21 13/13 17/4
19/14 25/10
whole [1] 9/2
why [6] 8/1 8/11 8/18 8/24
14/1 14/4
will [19]
Williams [2] 3/4 3/7
WILSON [1] 1/3
winning [1] 28/18
wire [3] 8/5 9/10 18/21
Wirsching [1] 3/12
within [1] 21/9
witness [2] 4/3 26/8
witnesses [1] 27/9
won't [1] 8/9
word [1] 29/18
worry [1] 19/19
would [42]
write [1] 23/21
writing [2] 12/19 24/1
written [1] 22/24
wrong [2] 13/18 14/25
wrote [1] 18/6
Y
Yes [25]
yet [1] 28/16
York [2] 2/10 2/18
you [82]
your [56]
Case 2:20-cr-00579-SVW Document 678 Filed 07/09/21 Page 36 of 36 Page ID
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