Full text
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
NAVY SEALS 1-3, et al.,
Plaintiffs,
v.
LLOYD AUSTIN, III, in his official capacity as
Secretary of Defense, et al.,
Defendants.
Case No. 4:21-cv-01236-O
DEFENDANTS’ APPENDIX IN SUPPORT OF THEIR
EMERGENCY MOTION TO SCHEDULE DEPOSITION
FOR JUNE 24, 2022 OR OTHER DATES THEREAFTER
Table of Appendix
Bates Stamps
Description
App001–App003
Attachment 1 - Second Declaration of Admiral William K. Lescher
App004–App026
Attachment 2 - Declaration of Amy E. Powell & Exhibits
App007–App019
Ex. A to Powell Declaration – Email Thread (May 2, 2022)
App020–App023
Ex. B to Powell Declaration – Notice of Deposition (April 25, 2022)
App024–App026
Ex. C to Powell Declaration – Letter from Amy Powell (April 29, 2022)
Dated: May 3, 2022
Respectfully submitted,
BRIAN M. BOYNTON
Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General
ALEXANDER K. HAAS
Director, Federal Programs Branch
ANTHONY J. COPPOLINO
Deputy Director
/s/Amy E. Powell
ANDREW E. CARMICHAEL (VA Bar. No. 76578)
AMY E. POWELL
Senior Trial Counsel
STUART J. ROBINSON
Senior Counsel
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ZACHARY A. AVALLONE
LIAM C. HOLLAND
Trial Attorney
United States Department of Justice
Civil Division, Federal Programs Branch
1100 L Street, N.W.
Washington, DC 20005
Tel: (202) 514-3346
Fax: (202) 616-8470
Email: Andrew.e.carmichael@usdoj.gov
Counsel for Defendants
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ATTACHMENT 1
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ATTACHMENT 2
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
NAVY SEALs 1-3, et al.,
Plaintiffs,
v.
LLOYD J. AUSTIN, III in his official capacity as
United States Secretary of Defense, et al.,
Defendants.
Case No. 4:21-cv-01236-O
DECLARATION OF AMY E. POWELL
1.
I am counsel for the Government in the above-captioned matter. I submit this
declaration based on personal knowledge and in support of the Defendants’ Emergency Motion to
Schedule Deposition for June 24, 2022, or Dates Thereafter.
2.
Attached as Exhibit A is a true and correct copy of an email thread among Plaintiffs’
and Defendants’ counsel in this matter. This email thread reflects that Plaintiffs’ counsel first
approached Defendants’ counsel about the deposition of the Vice Chief of Naval Operations
(“VCNO”) Admiral William K. Lescher by email dated April 1, 2022, that counsel for the parties
exchanged several emails about the proposed deposition over the next few days, and that counsel for
the parties spoke by telephone on April 6, 2022 about both the VCNO deposition and the
remaining Rule 26(f) issues.
3.
In the call on April 6, 2022, counsel for Defendants expressed skepticism that the
deposition of Admiral Lescher was appropriate at this time, and suggested that Plaintiffs serve a
proper subpoena so that we could discuss the specific request and rationale, and if necessary, brief
the issue in the proper forum.
4.
As reflected in Exhibit A, Plaintiffs did not comply with Defendants’ suggestion or
otherwise respond for almost three weeks. On April 25, 2022, Plaintiffs’ counsel served a Notice of
Deposition for the VCNO for May 4, 2022 in Fort Worth, TX. A true and correct copy of that
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Notice is attached as Exhibit B.
5.
As reflected in Exhibit A, I promptly responded the next day to state that
Defendants would likely need more time.
6.
On April 29, 2022, Defendants sent the letter attached as Exhibit C, offering
Admiral Lescher’s deposition on June 24, 2022 in Washington, DC.
7.
As reflected in Exhibit A, the parties conferred by telephone on May 2, 2022. Both
parties memorialized the call in emails on that thread. Plaintiffs’ counsel insisted that the deposition
of the VCNO must take place within 30 days and declined to withdraw or revise the existing
deposition notice for May 4, 2022 in Texas. See Ex. A. Plaintiffs’ counsel declined to offer an
explanation for why they believed the deposition of the VCNO must occur within 30 days or why
June 24, 2022 (or a later date) was not an acceptable date to conduct the deposition. Plaintiffs’
counsel also indicated that if the VCNO failed to offer an alternative date within 30 days, or appear
on Wednesday, they would seek sanctions.
8.
To date, the parties have exchanged initial disclosures but have conducted no other
discovery.
I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.
Executed this 3rd day of May, 2022, in Raleigh, NC.
/s/Amy E. Powell____________________
AMY E. POWELL
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EXHIBIT A
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From:
Powell, Amy (CIV)
To:
Andrew Stephens; Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV)
Cc:
Heather Hacker; Mike Berry; Danielle Runyan; Justin Butterfield; Holly Randall; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV);
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV); Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
Subject:
RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Date:
Monday, May 02, 2022 6:26:00 PM
Thanks, Andrew, I was just working on my own recap email, and I want to confer about a couple of
issues as well.
With respect to Admiral Lescher, to add to your memorialization, we also stated
that we are willing to offer additional days of availability, but that they
likely would be after the offered date in June, and confirmed that Admiral
Lescher is not available on the noticed date. You refused to withdraw or move
the noticed deposition in Texas unless additional days are provided. And refused to
move it in order to give the Court time to adjudicate a motion. We stated
that we would check for additional dates in May or June, but it is our current
understanding that he is not available, and that the deposition notice was
unreasonable in any case. We asked why it was urgent, especially in light of
his status as an apex official and the language in the 26(f) report regarding
phased discovery and depositions at mutually agreeable times. Admiral Lescher
is travelling and extremely busy, and it is unlikely that the parties will
agree on dates prior to the noticed date. Accordingly, we intend to file a
motion tomorrow to stay the deposition until June 24 (probably styled as an
emergency motion for a protective order). Please let us know as soon as
practicable Plaintiffs' position on the motion. (If Admiral Lescher's availability opens up
prior to or during briefing, we will let you know).
Second, with respect to the voluntary separations issue, we stated that anyone
who qualifies for voluntary separation may do so, but we do not see a way
under the current injunction to complete the involuntary separations of
current class members. You expressed concern about an "SJA" document that you
believed contained inaccurate information about the effect of the order. Without
seeing the document, we aren't sure what our position is, but we sent you a
copy of the current public NAVADMIN so that you can see the current guidance
with respect to separations. Voluntary separations under Navy regulations are
permitted; involuntary separations are not. If there are class members who
wish to separate but who do not qualify for voluntary separation, we may be able to
work with you to clarify the injunction so as to permit completion of
involuntary separations. Alternatively, the Court's order permits them to
withdraw their RARs, which would allow completion of the involuntary
separation as well.
From your description, I am concerned that the "SJA" document you described may be attorney-
client privileged. We could not tell from your description. Please send us a copy as soon as possible
so that we can determine whether to request its return.
App008
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From: Powell, Amy (CIV) <Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2022 3:48 PM
To: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>; Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV)
<Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Please see attached response. Happy to discuss if necessary.
Amy
Amy Elizabeth Powell
Senior Trial Counsel, Federal Programs Branch
Civil Division, Department of Justice
150 Fayetteville St, Suite 2100
Raleigh, NC 27601
Phone: 919-856-4013
Email: amy.powell@usdoj.gov
From: Powell, Amy (CIV)
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2022 11:30 AM
To: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>; Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV)
<Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Thank you, Andrew. We are looking into this issue, as well as the Admiral’s availability and will get
back to you soon. At a minimum, it is likely that we may need some more time.
Amy
From: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 3:25 PM
To: Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV) <Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>; Powell, Amy (CIV)
App010
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Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
We can use this conference line.
1-202-600-2533
Pin 96411427#
Best regards,
Drew
From: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 2:48 PM
To: Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV) <Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>; Powell, Amy (CIV)
<Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Yes that works.
Andrew
From: Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV) <Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 1:37 PM
To: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>; Powell, Amy (CIV) <Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Andrew,
Does 11:30 am EST work for you to discuss 26(f) issues?
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From: Powell, Amy (CIV) <Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 4:21 PM
To: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>; Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV)
<Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Andrew:
We really don’t know yet, and have not heard from Navy. Can you explain the urgency? We
don’t see any apparent urgency to a deposition of this nature?
From a DOJ perspective, it would be highly unusual for us to agree to deposition of an apex
official before discovery has even started. The parties have not filed a discovery plan or
commenced discovery. What basis do you see for any deposition now? And why an apex
official (as opposed to the dozen or so other officials who have submitted declarations in
connection with the PI and stay motions to date)?
Amy
Amy Elizabeth Powell
Senior Trial Counsel, Federal Programs Branch
Civil Division, Department of Justice
150 Fayetteville St, Suite 2100
Raleigh, NC 27601
Phone: 919-856-4013
Email: amy.powell@usdoj.gov
From: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2022 1:19 PM
To: Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV) <Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>; Powell, Amy (CIV)
<Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>; Snyder, Cassandra M (CIV) <Cassandra.M.Snyder@usdoj.gov>;
Avallone, Zachary A. (CIV) <Zachary.A.Avallone@usdoj.gov>; Yang, Catherine M (CIV)
<Catherine.M.Yang@usdoj.gov>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Drew,
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www.hackerstephens.com
This message contains information that may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or
authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, or disclose to anyone the message or any
information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by replying or by
phone at (512) 399-3022 and delete the message.
From: Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV) <Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 3:36 PM
To: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>; Powell, Amy (CIV)
<Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>; Enlow, Courtney D. (CIV) <Courtney.D.Enlow@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>;
Holly Randall <hrandall@firstliberty.org>
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs 1-26 v. Biden, 4:21-cv-01236-O
Andrew,
I will ask the Navy about that. He likely resides in Northern Virginia (EDVA) which would
require Plaintiffs to seek leave from that Court but I can confirm that.
Also, I think it would be helpful to pick back up our Rule 26(f) discussion. We originally put that
on hold because Plaintiffs planned to file a motion for class certification and a motion for a class
preliminary injunction. Now that the district court has resolved those matters we should resume
those discussions.
Does Wednesday work for Plaintiffs?
Best regards,
Drew
Drew Carmichael
Senior Trial Counsel | United States Department of Justice
Civil Division | Federal Programs Branch
Tel: (202) 514-3346
From: Andrew Stephens <andrew@hackerstephens.com>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2022 1:43 PM
To: Carmichael, Andrew E. (CIV) <Andrew.E.Carmichael@usdoj.gov>; Powell, Amy (CIV)
<Amy.Powell@usdoj.gov>; Enlow, Courtney D. (CIV) <Courtney.D.Enlow@usdoj.gov>
Cc: Heather Hacker <heather@hackerstephens.com>; Mike Berry <mberry@firstliberty.org>;
Danielle Runyan <drunyan@firstliberty.org>; Justin Butterfield <jbutterfield@firstliberty.org>; Holly
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EXHIBIT B
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
FORT WORTH DIVISION
U.S. NAVY SEALs 1-3; on behalf of
themselves and all others similarly situated;
U.S. NAVY EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE
DISPOSAL TECHNICIAN 1, on behalf of
himself and all others similarly situated; U.S.
NAVY SEALS 4-26; U.S. NAVY SPECIAL
WARFARE COMBATANT CRAFT
CREWMEN 1-5; and U.S. NAVY DIVERS
1-3,
Plaintiffs,
v.
LLOYD J. AUSTIN, III, in his official
capacity as United States Secretary of
Defense; UNITED STATES
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; CARLOS
DEL TORO, in his official capacity as
United States Secretary of the Navy,
Defendants.
Case No. 4:21-cv-01236-O
NOTICE OF DEPOSITION
To:
William K. Lescher
c/o Andrew Carmichael
United States Department of Justice
Civil Division, Federal Programs Branch
1100 L Street, N.W.
Washington, DC 20005
Please take notice that pursuant to Rule 30 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure,
Plaintiffs, by their attorneys, will take the deposition of William K. Lescher, in his official capacity
as Vice Chief of Naval Operations for the United States Department of Defense, before a Certified
Court Reporter. The deposition will take place on May 4, 2022, at 9:00 a.m. at 201 Main Street,
Suite 700, Fort Worth, Texas 76102.
The deposition will be stenographically and electronically recorded and will be used for
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discovery and/or evidentiary purposes to the full extent allowed by the Federal Rules of Civil
Procedure and the Federal Rules of Evidence.
Respectfully submitted this 25th day of April, 2022.
KELLY J. SHACKELFORD
Texas Bar No. 18070950
JEFFREY C. MATEER
Texas Bar No. 13185320
HIRAM S. SASSER, III
Texas Bar No. 24039157
DAVID J. HACKER
Texas Bar No. 24103323
MICHAEL D. BERRY
Texas Bar No. 24085835
JUSTIN BUTTERFIELD
Texas Bar No. 24062642
Danielle A. Runyan *
New Jersey Bar No. 027232004
Holly M. Randall *
Oklahoma Bar No. 34763
FIRST LIBERTY INSTITUTE
2001 W. Plano Pkwy., Ste. 1600
Plano, Texas 75075
Tel: (972) 941-4444
jmateer@firstliberty.org
hsasser@firstliberty.org
dhacker@firstliberty.org
mberry@firstliberty.org
jbutterfield@firstliberty.org
drunyan@firstliberty.org
hrandall@firstliberty.org
JORDAN E. PRATT
Florida Bar No. 100958* **
FIRST LIBERTY INSTITUTE
227 Pennsylvania Ave., SE
Washington, DC 20003
Tel: (972) 941-4444
jpratt@firstliberty.org
*Admitted pro hac vice.
** Not yet admitted to the D.C. Bar, but
admitted to practice law in Florida. Practicing
law in D.C. pursuant to D.C. Court of
Appeals Rule 49(c)(8) under the supervision
of an attorney admitted to the D.C. Bar.
/s/ Andrew B. Stephens
HEATHER GEBELIN HACKER
Texas Bar No. 24103325
ANDREW B. STEPHENS
Texas Bar No. 24079396
HACKER STEPHENS LLP
108 Wild Basin Road South, Suite 250
Austin, Texas 78746
Tel.: (512) 399-3022
heather@hackerstephens.com
andrew@hackerstephens.com
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
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CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I hereby certify that on April 25, 2022, I served the foregoing document on counsel of
record for each party.
/s/Andrew B. Stephens
ANDREW B. STEPHENS
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EXHIBIT C
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- 2 -
Going forward we propose that absent special circumstances, witness depositions take place
near their residence or duty station. We note that only one of the potential witnesses for either of the
parties (Navy SEAL 1) resides in the State of Texas and that the vast majority of the witnesses reside
in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, Virginia Beach, Virginia or San Diego, California. Our
proposal will minimize the burden for both parties’ witnesses. Defendants are also amenable to
conducting the depositions of witnesses in the same area on back to back days to minimize any travel
burdens on the attorneys.
Please let me know if you would like to meet and confer further on this issue.
Sincerely,
/s/
Amy E. Powell
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