Court filing
Transcript of Cross Examination of Kyle Decicco — USA v. Crowther (Dkt. 130, M.D. Fla. No. 2:20-mj-01094, docketed in No. 2:20-cr-00114)
Filed March 30, 2021 in USA v. Crowther; one of 318 filings from this case.
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2021-03-30 |
U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida · No. 2:20-cr-00114 · Doc. 130 · 2021-03-30 · Docket on CourtListener
Full text
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
FORT MYERS DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Fort Myers, Florida
)
) Case 2:20-CR-114-FtM-66MRM
Plaintiff )
) Wednesday, March 24, 2021
vs. )
) 10:05 a.m. to 11:55 a.m.
CASEY DAVID CROWTHER, )
) Courtroom 5D
Defendant )
_______________________________)
TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL CROSS EXAMINATION OF KYLE DECICCO
HELD BEFORE THE HONORABLE JOHN E. STEELE,
United States District Court Judge
Official Court Reporter:
Jeffrey G. Thomas, RPR, CRR
2110 First Street, Suite 2-194
Fort Myers, FL 33901
Telephone: (239) 461-2033
(Proceedings reported by Stenotype; Transcript produced by
computer-aided transcription.)
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 1 of 48 PageID 835
2
A P P E A R A N C E S
COUNSEL FOR GOVERNMENT:
United States Attorney's Office
Middle District of Florida
United States Courthouse
2110 First Street
Room 3-137
Fort Myers, FL 33901
(239)461-2200
BY: TRENT REICHLING, ESQ.
MICHAEL V. LEEMAN, ESQ.
COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT:
FisherBroyles LLP
2390 Tamiami Trail North
Suite 100
Naples, FL 34103
BY: NICOLE HUGHES WAID, ESQ
BRIAN E. DICKERSON, ESQ.
* * *
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 2 of 48 PageID 836
3
I N D E X
March 24, 2021 Vol. Page
1
4
Preliminary Discussions
- - -
WITNESSES FOR GOVERNMENT
WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOIR DIRE
NAME Vol. Pg. Vol. Pg. Vol. Pg. Vol. Pg. Vol. Pg.
Kyle Decicco
1
4
1
6
1
7
1
45
- - -
DEFENSE EXHIBITS ADMITTED
Vol. Page
1
9
Defendant's Exhibit I Admitted
1
21
Defendant's Exhibit E17 Admitted
1
42
Defendant's Exhibit J Admitted
- - -
Vol. Page
1
48
Certificate of Court Reporter
* * *
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 3 of 48 PageID 837
4
DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
* * * P R O C E E D I N G S * * *
- - -
MR. DICKERSON: May I proceed, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. DICKERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Hello, Mr. DeCicco. How are you doing?
A
Good. Good morning.
Q
My name is Brian Dickerson. I'm counsel for
Mr. Crowther. I'm going to ask you some questions based on the
government's questions that they asked you. If you can't hear
my question, just let me know, with the shields and everything.
I'll restate it, or try to make it more clear, or louder. I
just want you to hear what I'm saying, and for you to
understand what I'm asking. Okay?
A
Yes.
Q
Fair?
A
Fair.
Q
All right. I understand that Sanibel Captiva Bank --
and you guys go by the abbreviation SanCap; is that right?
A
Yes.
Q
So if I say SanCap, that's what I'm talking about.
SanCap issued a loan to Target Roofing pursuant to the
PPP program; correct?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 4 of 48 PageID 838
5
DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Yes.
Q
And that was a one-percent loan between SanCap and
Target Roofing; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And that was that $2,000 figure that we'll pull up here
shortly. And do you know the loan number by chance?
A
$2 million figure?
Q
2,087,000.
A
Yes.
MR. DICKERSON: If I may approach and grab the other
exhibit?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. DICKERSON: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
(Counsel provides evidence to the witness.)
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
I've showed you what's been previously marked as
Defendant's Exhibit I. Can you take some time to read that --
I mean just review it to see what it is, count the pages, and
see if you're familiar with it at all?
A
This is the large -- rather large loan application
package that we've discussed earlier on, signed several times
by myself and Mr. Crowther.
MR. DICKERSON: Okay. One second.
Your Honor? Provide you a copy?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 5 of 48 PageID 839
6
KYLE DECICCO - VOIR DIRE/LEEMAN
THE COURT: That's fine.
(Mr. Dickerson provides the Court with a copy of
Defendant's Exhibit I.)
MR. DICKERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
So when you were mentioning, when the government was
bringing you single documents, you kept talking about a loan
package?
A
Yes.
Q
Is that the loan package?
A
Yes. It appears to be the complete loan package of, I
can't remember, 50 pages or so.
Q
So is that a fair and accurate depiction of the loan
package that Sanibel Captiva Community Bank had with Target
Roofing, which is executed on April 14th, 2020?
A
It is.
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, the defense would move
Exhibit I into evidence.
THE COURT: Any objections?
MR. LEEMAN: Your Honor, may I briefly voir dire the
witness?
THE COURT: You may.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MR. LEEMAN:
Q
Mr. DeCicco, your answer was that it appears to be the
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 6 of 48 PageID 840
7
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
complete loan package? Have you seen this exact exhibit before
you've come in here today?
A
I have digital copies of it saved on my desktop on my
computer, so I would say yes.
Q
Well, I'm asking you, there are multiple documents in
here. Have you reviewed them all and compared them against
whatever files you have at the bank?
A
I've reviewed every document that we have at the bank.
Q
And have you compared it to what you have in front of
you here?
A
No.
MR. LEEMAN: Your Honor, I'm not certain -- well, the
government doesn't believe that that is a sufficient set of
knowledge to establish that these are, in fact, the loan
documents.
THE COURT: Do you care to be heard?
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, he just said that he has
them on his computer, it looks like the loan documents, the
entire package. We are providing the total loan package, not
single documents. I can ask further questions of Mr. DeCicco.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Mr. DeCicco, take your time if you want, review that,
and let me know if there's anything in that loan package before
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 7 of 48 PageID 841
8
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
you that does not look like part of the loan package between
Sanibel Captiva Community Bank and Target Roofing.
(Witness examines evidence.)
A
Promissory note is there. Fee disclosure page is there.
CARES Act disclosure is there. Statement regarding lobbying.
Borrower certification. The SBA Form 1050 that we discussed
earlier, which is the settlement statement, which attachment
that we discussed earlier. The borrower resolution that we
discussed earlier. The business purpose certificate that we
discussed earlier. Anti-coercion insurance acknowledgment.
Further assurance for compliance agreement. Representation
notice and acknowledgment. The loan agreement that we
discussed earlier. A W-9 form, standard tax document. A
reporting acknowledgment. Receipt of this document.
Additional documents for equal employment opportunity, equal
treatment of clients. Standard -- looks like standard
documents included in the package.
And then this looks to be part of the SBA Paycheck
Protection Program forgiveness. A notice of forgiveness
document. Another acknowledgment of receipt. Compliance
agreement. And a loan forgiveness affidavit that we discussed
earlier.
Q
And if you could, at the top of the pages, is there a
designation, top left, as far as DocuSign, like a heading?
A
Yes, there is.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 8 of 48 PageID 842
9
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
And what is that?
A
I'm not an expert with DocuSign. Again, that was a
third-party company that we utilized to facilitate signing over
a thousand of these loans in a very short period of time.
Q
And so looking -- reviewing that entire documentation
right there, and the header at the top, does that make you
believe that is the loan package when you look at, as well, at
the cover page? What's the cover page say?
A
That is our cover page that we utilized. That is
actually the field where we inputted each one of those
documents, and it auto-populated through the loan document
page -- package.
Q
Do you have any concern that that is not the loan
package between Sanibel Captiva Community Bank and Target
Roofing?
A
I would say it's accurate.
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, we'd move it into
evidence.
MR. LEEMAN: No further objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Defense Exhibit I will be admitted and
may be published.
(Defendant's Exhibit I admitted.)
(Evidence was published via the projector.)
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
So when we look at this loan, the loan number, the SCCB
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 9 of 48 PageID 843
10
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
loan number, that is . . . .
A
That is the loan number as it appears on our books on
our bank's system.
Q
Sanibel Captiva Community Bank's loan number?
A
Yes.
Q
And the SBA loan number, that's the loan number assigned
by the SBA for this loan.
A
Correct.
Q
So with regard -- I'm going to just call it 0251, the
last four digits; is that right?
A
Yes.
Q
All right. With regard to loan 0251, term's one percent
interest?
A
Yes.
Q
And if you need to look at it, I'll pull each page up,
but two-year maturity rate?
A
Two, which actually could be changed to five.
Q
Why is that?
A
Because the SBA provided additional further guidance
later on down the road.
Q
So a subsequent interim final rule changes?
A
Yes. One of many.
Q
When you say one of the many, how many were there?
A
Roughly 50. But I'm not an expert on every one of them.
Q
And did you have the time to review every one of them?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 10 of 48 PageID
844
11
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Not in their entirety.
Q
Okay. So this is the contractual documents between
Sanibel Captiva Bank and Target Roofing.
A
Yes.
Q
These proceeds, the 2,098,700, are Sanibel Captiva
Community Bank proceeds; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
Have there been any SBA loan proceeds with regard to
this loan?
A
Any SBA proceeds.
Q
So Target Roofing with this loan.
A
That is a Sanibel Captiva Community Bank loan guaranteed
by the SBA.
Q
Right. So there have been no SBA loan proceeds used for
this Loan 3330251.
A
Correct.
Q
Thank you. With regard to this loan, we'll get to the
documents, you've mentioned cover period a couple of times.
Did that change?
A
It did.
Q
What's your understanding of how that changed?
A
It's changed a few times since the program originated in
April of 2020. At first it was an eight-week period that the
funds must be used during. Then it changed to 24 weeks. And
now it could be used between eight weeks and 24 weeks.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 11 of 48 PageID
845
12
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
So again all these changing rules.
A
Yes.
Q
When is the first payment due on this loan, if you know?
A
I believe we set all the maturity dates out
seven months, on a specific date in April so it would just be
easier for the bank to facilitate those all with our loan
operations department.
Q
So seven months from this April?
A
Seven months from . . . . Excuse me. Seven months from
April of 2020.
Q
Okay.
A
And then, later on, what happened was is that we got
more, guidance where we can extend that a different period of
time until the loan was either applied for forgiveness or
wasn't applied for forgiveness, and then it became -- had to
become a repay back as the loan terms of the loan in the loan
agreement suggest.
Q
All right. Can you speak up a little bit?
A
I'm sorry.
Q
Say that again?
A
Can you ask the question again, please?
Q
Yup. So I mean when is the loan payment due? The first
loan payment on the Sanibel Captiva lone, when is the first
payment due?
A
We set the loan payments, I believe, to be due
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 12 of 48 PageID
846
13
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
seven months after the origination of the loan.
Q
Okay. So, with regard to the original loan, it would
have been seven months after April 14th, 2020.
A
Yes.
Q
And then that has changed.
A
It got extended.
Q
And how did it get extended?
A
We internally did that at the bank.
Q
Okay. Were there any IFRs, interim final rules, that
said that a time period after either the cover period
terminates or a loan forgiveness application is filed?
A
Yes.
Q
And do you recall -- you know that specifically?
A
Not specifically, no.
Q
Okay. Do you know when this now loan first payment is
due?
A
Roughly November, 2021.
Q
Okay. Okay. So there's no loan payments up to this
point in time.
A
Correct.
Q
Has there been a forgiveness application filed by Target
Roofing for this loan to Sanibel Captiva Community Bank?
A
No.
Q
Has Sanibel Captiva Bank received any loan application
with forgiveness documents, like payroll, employee information,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 13 of 48 PageID
847
14
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
seeking forgiveness of this loan?
A
I don't believe so.
Q
And so, as it stands with Sanibel Captiva Community
Bank, this is a loan where the payments start November of 2021.
A
Correct.
Q
And if Target bank -- I mean Target Roofing wants to
apply for forgiveness, they still can.
A
Yes.
Q
Do you understand that, under the rules, the borrower
can still apply for forgiveness up to the last payment date of
the loan?
A
No.
Q
Okay.
A
I didn't understand that.
Q
All right.
A
And then the loan proceeds would be reimbursed? Is that
what you're saying?
Q
Based upon whether or not there is a forgiveness.
A
Okay.
Q
And it's your understanding that this -- since this is a
loan on Sanibel Captiva Bank's books and records, and on the
Target Roofing's loan --
A
This an asset of Sanibel Captiva Community Bank, and I'm
assuming it's carried as a liability on Target Roofing's
balance sheet.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 14 of 48 PageID
848
15
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
And that's what I'm getting at. When Sanibel Captiva
Bank is looking at Target Roofing, sole shareholder Casey
Crowther, this loan is looked at as a liability for them;
correct?
A
Yes.
Q
The bank hasn't defaulted Target Roofing on this loan;
correct?
A
No, we have not.
Q
Do you see the bank as a victim of this loan?
A
No.
Q
There's been no injury to the bank from this loan.
A
No.
Q
Do you feel there was any misrepresentations by Target
Roofing with regard to the SBA loan application?
A
No.
Q
No? I couldn't hear you, sir.
A
No.
Q
And I'm simply referring, if you can look to it,
Exhibit 6 and Exhibit 8.
A
The two applications?
Q
Correct. Do you see -- was there any misrepresentation
in those documents from Target Roofing?
A
No. The client, the borrower, filled out the
application just as every one of our customers did, or had to.
Q
And I'm going to get to that through those documents
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 15 of 48 PageID
849
16
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
specifically, so we'll get that in a second.
Has the SBA provided any notice to Sanibel Captiva Bank
that this guaranty by SBA is ineligible, or that the SBA will
not guarantee this loan?
A
No, they have not. Not to my knowledge.
Q
And let's go to your knowledge. You said before there's
one person above you at Sanibel Captiva Bank; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And you're the one in charge of the loans that were
disbursed based upon the CARES Act.
A
(Witness nods head up and down.)
Q
So if there's anybody else in the bank to know, it would
be you and one other person?
A
Correct.
Q
So you're not aware of that at all.
A
I'm not aware of it.
Q
Are you aware of any demand by the SBA for repayment of
the loan from Target Roofing to Sanibel Captiva Bank?
A
No, I'm not.
Q
Is Target Roofing in good standing with Sanibel Captiva
Bank?
A
Yes.
Q
Is Casey Crowther in good standing with Sanibel Captiva
Bank?
A
Yes.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 16 of 48 PageID
850
17
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
Now, you did mention that, through answering questions
from Mr. Leeman, that you had this meeting with Casey Crowther
in May of 2013.
A
Yes. Phone conversation?
Q
Yeah, your phone conversation. I know it wasn't a
personal meeting. A phone conversation.
In that phone conversation, was there also discussion
about selling of the Nalle Road property by Casey Crowther?
A
Yes, there was.
Q
And that Nalle Road property is his main residence;
correct?
A
It is.
Q
And what did you understand about that?
A
He also, in that time period, on that phone
conversation, said that, over the past several months, his
time -- times have changed, lifestyle changed a little bit,
that the family was considering moving their residence out to
Saint James City rather than being in North Fort Myers.
Q
Okay. You know that didn't happen though; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And going to your discovery of, as the government calls
it, the -- well, you actually said it, the rumor at Sanibel
Captiva Bank that a boat was purchased from the Target Roofing
account in April of -- I mean April of 2020; correct?
A
Yes.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 17 of 48 PageID
851
18
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
What did you do to confirm that rumor?
A
I looked at the accounts, I looked at the wire
information, I looked at where the wire was going. I actually
know the business of where that wire was going because,
actually, that's another customer of mine that owns that
specific dealership.
Q
And so you saw a wire going to Sara Bay Marina, and you
thought it was a purchase of what?
A
I assumed it was a purchase of a boat.
Q
It wasn't anything that was deceiving, it was money
going to a marina; correct?
A
That's correct.
Q
And you looked at the wire, and saw the marina, saw it
on the account, so you knew he purchased a boat.
A
I assumed so; yes.
Q
You made that assumption.
A
I made that assumption.
Q
I guess you could purchase something else from a marina
for that amount of money, but not much; correct?
A
I don't know what else they sell other than boats.
Q
Okay. And you also mentioned that you had known that
Casey Crowther had a history of buying and selling boats.
A
That's correct.
Q
And what is that knowledge?
A
Just, since he's been a customer of mine since 2017, I
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 18 of 48 PageID
852
19
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
could point back to three boats that he's bought and sold, and
he's articulated to me that he's made money on all of --
MR. LEEMAN: Objection, hearsay.
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, it's the defendant's
statement. We've already had -- the government asked this same
witness for the defendant's statement.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
You can answer, sir.
A
Since he's been a customer -- repeat what I just said?
Q
Yes. And come up more to the mike.
A
Since 2017, since he's been a customer of Sanibel
Captiva Community Bank, I can point back to three boats that I
know that he has told me . . . other than what he has told me,
that he has bought and sold and made money on.
Q
All right. And then you are aware of the sale of the
boat in March of 2020.
A
Yes.
Q
And tell --
A
That was one of the three that I just --
Q
That's what I was assuming. Tell me what you know about
that boat sale.
A
He told me he sold his boat.
Q
Did he tell you for how much?
A
Approximately?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 19 of 48 PageID
853
20
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
Yeah.
A
Three -- under $400,000.
Q
But around 400,000?
A
High three hundreds.
Q
And did Mr. Crowther actually ask to use the bank's
counting machine to count the cash that he received for that?
A
Yes, he did.
Q
And did he come in and use the bank's counting machine?
A
Yes, he did.
Q
And did you see the cash?
A
He did.
MR. DICKERSON: May I take one second, Your Honor?
(Defense counsel confers privately.)
(Mr. Dickerson confers with government counsel.)
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, may I approach the
witness?
THE COURT: You may.
(Counsel provides evidence to the witness.)
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Mr. DeCicco, I'm showing you what's been marked as
Defendant's Exhibit Number 17. Do you recognize that photo?
A
I recognize . . . the room. I recognize the office
furniture. I recognize a box of money.
Q
Is that the bank's counting machine?
A
It appears to be.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 20 of 48 PageID
854
21
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
And do you recall seeing this cash in this box?
A
I saw it more spread out over the desk.
Q
All right. If you look at the date on the top of the
picture -- don't have to say what it is -- does that date
coincide with when Casey Crowther took this money to Sanibel
Captiva Bank, where you were located, and had the cash counted?
A
Yes.
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, defense would move in
Defense Exhibit E17 into evidence.
THE COURT: E17. Any objections?
MR. LEEMAN: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: E17 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit E17 admitted.)
(Evidence was published via the projector.)
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
So, as you just discussed, that's the bank's cash
counting machine.
A
Yes.
Q
And that's the . . . the ladies and gentlemen of the
jury, couldn't see the picture while we were talking, I just
wanted to confirm. And that's the office and furniture at
Sanibel Captiva Bank?
A
That's the private office that I walked Mr. Crowther in,
and shut the door, and allowed him to use the cash counting
machine.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 21 of 48 PageID
855
22
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
And, when he came in, he had a box full of cash.
A
A closed box in the lobby.
Q
Do you know if those bands are from Sanibel Captiva
Bank? Can you tell?
A
I can't tell from that picture.
Q
That's all right. But you're confident this is in
Sanibel Captiva Bank, and that's the cash that was brought in
by Mr. Crowther to count on March 24th.
A
I am confident that that is the Sanibel Captiva office
room that I walked Mr. Crowther in and allowed him to use the
cash counting machine.
Q
And he had a box.
A
And he had a box.
Q
Of cash.
A
And then later, when he needed help, because it got
jammed, and he asked me to come in, there was cash laid out
that he was counting.
Q
Okay. So that's what he was using the machine for, to
count.
A
Yes.
Q
All right. And that is the cash from the sale of the
boat in -- the Yellow Fin boat in March of 2020.
A
That's what he told me the cash was for. From.
Q
Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Dickerson, why don't you find a
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 22 of 48 PageID
856
23
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
convenient place for a morning recess.
MR. DICKERSON: This would be perfect, Your Honor.
THE COURT: This works?
MR. DICKERSON: Yes.
THE COURT: Let's take about 15 minutes for a recess.
Again, please do not discuss the case among yourselves, or
allow anyone to discuss it with you or in your presence. About
15 minutes.
(At 10:32 a.m., the jury was escorted from the
courtroom.)
THE COURT: Be seated, please.
The two ladies sitting next to the man in the blue
shirt. You both raise your hands. During various testimony,
you started nodding your head in agreement with the testimony
of the witness. You may not do that. If you do it again, I
will have you removed from the courtroom. Okay?
All right. Fifteen minutes.
MR. DICKERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
(At 10:33 a.m., court was recessed.)
AFTER RECESS
(At 10:52 a.m., court was reconvened.)
THE COURT: Both sides ready for the jury?
MR. LEEMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
MS. WAID: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Have the jury step in, please.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 23 of 48 PageID
857
24
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
(At 10:54 a.m., the jury was escorted into the
courtroom.)
THE COURT: You may proceed.
MR. DICKERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
So my next line of questioning, Mr. DeCicco, so we can
have it flow, is I'm gonna talk about the individual loan
documents that the government showed you; and when I talk about
those documents, I just want you to confirm that document is
within Exhibit I, the defense exhibit, the loan packet. Okay?
A
Yes.
Q
Thank you. If you would look at Exhibit 6, confirm that
it's in the loan packet, and then I'll be talking to you about
questions about Exhibit 6.
And if I could publish Exhibit 6, please.
A
Exhibit 6 is the first loan application that was
recalled.
Q
Correct.
A
Can you point out to me where it would be in my package?
Q
It's not.
A
Okay.
Q
But I just wanted to confirm the applications are not
part of the loan packet for Sanibel Captiva Bank; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
It wasn't a trick question, I just wanted you to answer.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 24 of 48 PageID
858
25
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Still early.
Q
If you would, though, look at Exhibit 6.
Now, is it your understanding that, if Target Roofing
filed for forgiveness, and was granted forgiveness, then the
SBA proceeds would be paid to Sanibel Captiva Bank for the loan
forgiveness amount?
A
Correct.
Q
If Target Roofing just doesn't pay the loan that we're
talking about, 0225, if they don't repay that loan, then SBA
would then pay Sanibel Captiva SBA loan proceeds for the loan
amount.
A
We would exercise the guaranty option with the SBA.
Q
And that guaranty option then does what?
A
Ensure that the SBA would repay us for the funds that we
lent to Target Roofing.
Q
Okay. And then that would be SBA loan proceeds that is
paid to Sanibel Captiva Bank. Correct?
A
Yes.
Q
All right. Exhibit 6, this is a SBA document; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
Form document.
A
Yes.
Q
Go Page 2. The government had you look at
representations and authorizations, and they had you read,
under, "I represent that," the third bullet point.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 25 of 48 PageID
859
26
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Yes.
Q
Are there any SBA loan proceeds involved, at all, with
regard to being paid to Target Roofing for this loan?
A
The proceeds of the loan is a loan with Sanibel Captiva
Community Bank loan funds.
Q
And that's what I'm getting at. They had you read the
third bullet point. Third bullet point, if you can read that,
sir?
A
"All SBA loan proceeds will be used only for business
purposes as specified in the loan application."
Q
There are no SBA loan proceeds in this loan; correct?
A
That's an SBA guaranteed loan. They are not loan
proceeds.
Q
All right. So that's correct?
A
That is correct.
Q
Thank you. And if you'd look now to Exhibit 8. That is
the second application; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And on these applications -- actually, I'm sorry. Go
back to six. I apologize. Do you know -- I heard -- you were
asked whether that is Casey Crowther's print name. Do you know
whether that's his signature?
A
I don't. I'm not an expert in signatures.
Q
And, in fact, I think you were exchanging e-mails with
Mr. Crowther that Mr. Crowther was having other people on his
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 26 of 48 PageID
860
27
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
team work on the application kind of like you were.
A
There were several people copied on that e-mail.
Q
Right. So you weren't working on this loan by yourself;
correct?
A
No.
Q
You had several people; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
How many people did you have working on it?
A
Mid thirties. About a third of our bank.
Q
Very hectic time period; right?
A
Yes.
Q
You guys also had the home refinance surge that was
going on at that same time?
A
Yes.
Q
Now going to eight. And again, this Exhibit 8 would not
be in the Sanibel Captiva loan package; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
On eight, going to that second page and that third
bullet point again, same language; right?
A
Yes.
Q
Same thing applies; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
Going to this signature, do you recognize that
signature?
A
Casey Crowther.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 27 of 48 PageID
861
28
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
Do you know it's Casey Crowther's?
A
Again, I'm not an expert in reading signatures.
Q
I know. I'm just asking. I understand. But again, do
you recall receiving an e-mail from someone at Casey Crowther's
office -- I know it's going back, a lot of people, a lot of
time. Do you recall receiving an e-mail from somebody on
April 13th with this loan application?
A
It may or may not have come directly to me. It probably
went to one of my staff members that was assigned to be the
relationship manager for Target Roofing during this time.
Q
All right. Go back, look right up there, maybe that
helps, the primary contact and e-mail address. To the right.
A
Brad.
Q
And who is Brad?
A
Brad, I believe, was comptroller, or CFO, or involved
with finance at Target.
Q
And do you remember communicating in e-mail back and
forth with Brad?
A
He was on the e-mail chain.
Q
All right. And so this application's April 13th;
correct?
A
Dated April 13th.
Q
And the loan closed on what date? And if you need to
look at Exhibit I, you can look at Exhibit I.
A
Thank you. Fourteenth.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 28 of 48 PageID
862
29
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
So it closed right back to back?
A
Very quickly after.
Q
Do you recall actually receiving this loan application
at the end of the day on the 13th, in an e-mail?
A
No.
Q
Now let's look at Government's Exhibit 9. And what is
that document, sir?
A
It's the promissory note associated with the loan
documents.
Q
And it's in Exhibit I?
A
It is in there.
Q
Okay. Thank you. And this is the document that the
bank had drafted?
A
We hired a third-party attorney that specialized in SBA
7(a) lending to provide us, and we paid for that service, for a
loan document package, which is Exhibit I.
Q
Okay. And, because this was a new program with . . .
whether it was going to be guarantied, or whether it was going
to be forgiven; correct?
A
Our bank did not have, nor did any bank have, any
specialty knowledge for creating a loan doc pack for an SBA PPP
program, because it never existed.
Q
Right.
A
And they gave us very little knowledge at that time
about how to fund the loan proceeds and how to create the loan
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 29 of 48 PageID
863
30
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
package. So, to the best of our ability, with the limited
information we had, that's the choice that myself and
management made. We hired a third-party attorney to create
those loan documents.
Q
And so you learned, what, on the 27th/28th, the CARES
Act, as far as the program being approved and passed by the
President; correct?
A
Of March?
Q
Yes.
A
Yes.
Q
And you had until about what, April 3rd, to start
implementing and accepting applications?
A
Correct.
Q
What was that time period like?
A
Pretty hectic. Not much sleep.
Q
Sorry? What did you say?
A
Pretty hectic, not much sleep, and funneling a lot of
requests, as you can imagine, from our clients, and non-clients
as well.
Q
And then you had to put the team together, it was your
duty to put the team together to be able to handle this influx
of work.
A
Yes.
Q
And you said was it 700 or 800 applicants that
petitioned you, Sanibel Captiva Bank received?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 30 of 48 PageID
864
31
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
In round one?
Q
Yes.
A
We did over 700 applications and approved loans, funded
loans. Nearly $70 million.
Q
All right. So round one, Sanibel Captiva loans out
$70 million.
A
Correct.
Q
In a very short amount of time period.
A
Yes.
Q
Was that just all April, or did that go past April?
A
I'm sure it was April and May.
Q
And it was first come first served; right?
A
Yes. There were actually two periods during round one.
Round one had 349 million of available -- billion, excuse me --
349 billion that did not last long, because the loan amounts
could go up to $10 million. And, as you can imagine, the
larger businesses took the vast amount of the money very
quickly. And then the government issued -- Congress approved
additional funds, and that dragged on a little bit longer,
until that ended. And I don't remember the date that that
ended.
Q
Okay. But safe to say that you had a rush with
everybody thinking this money was limited.
A
Yes. There was a rush at the beginning.
Q
And you don't have the loan documents, so you hire
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 31 of 48 PageID
865
32
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
outside counsel to draft these documents.
A
Yes; that was the decision that was made.
Q
And Exhibit 9 is one of these documents.
A
Yes.
Q
If you would, what does Paragraph 1 -- just read it to
the jury, make sure everybody can hear and see it.
A
Promise to pay?
Q
Yes.
A
"In return for the loan, borrower promises to pay the
order of lender the amount of $2,098,700.00 plus interest of
unpaid principal balance and all other amounts required by this
note."
Q
Standard loan note --
A
Very standard for a promissory note.
Q
And then the second paragraph, is that standard language
in a promissory note?
A
This was very specific to this program.
Q
Okay. And this is what you had as far, as received from
your counsel, as far as the language; correct?
A
They created this document.
Q
Right. And that's what I'm saying, your lawyer created
this document.
A
Yes.
Q
And what does that significantly say as far as
Paragraph 2?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 32 of 48 PageID
866
33
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Loan forgiveness?
Q
Yes.
A
"Borrower may apply to lender for forgiveness of the
amount due on this loan in the amount equal to the sum of the
following costs incurred by the borrower during the eight-week
period beginning on the date of first disbursement of this
loan."
Q
And then it has the A through D; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And then what is the last paragraph?
A
"The amount of loan forgiveness shall be calculated,
(and may be reduced,) in accordance with the requirement of the
Paycheck Protection Program, including provisions of
Section 1106 of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic
Security Act, the CARES Act, not more than 25 percent of the
amount forgiven can be attributed to non-payroll costs."
Q
So do you understand that provision to be, if somebody,
being an applicant, a borrower in this case, applies for
forgiveness, they're not required to, but they may; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And if they do apply for forgiveness, then it is
triggering the requirements of the Paycheck Protection Program,
and specifically that last paragraph you read.
A
That's what it says; yes.
Q
And so if somebody doesn't apply for forgiveness, that
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 33 of 48 PageID
867
34
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
paragraph, that section, doesn't even apply to that borrower.
A
Correct.
Q
And they're still responsible . . . .
A
For the loan. For the promissory note.
Q
Yeah, and Paragraph 1, promising to pay.
A
Correct.
MR. DICKERSON: Sorry, Your Honor. Hit the wrong
button.
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Reach for Government's Exhibit 14, please, sir. And
again review that and see if that document is within
Defendant's Exhibit I, the loan package.
A
The loan agreement, yes, it's in this package.
Q
And what -- tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
what this loan agreement is.
A
It spells out the terms of the loan.
Q
And at this point in time it was still a two-year
maturity; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
And that's why we have that term right there; correct?
A
That's correct.
Q
And that's changed.
A
Yes.
Q
To five years.
A
It has.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 34 of 48 PageID
868
35
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
But you don't need to have any writing to change the
loan agreement for that, that's just going to be because the
law has changed as it applies to five years.
A
That's how I understand it.
Q
Okay.
A
That the updates to the interim final rule supersede the
loan documents.
Q
Okay. Go to Page 2, Paragraph 2, under, "Loan." What's
your -- I mean, take your time to read it, I know you haven't
read it, but take your time to read it, and let me know when
you've completed it.
(Witness examines evidence.)
A
Speaks specifically about forgiveness and what that
process would look like if or when the borrower decides to
apply for forgiveness.
Q
And does it not state that . . . in which or all portion
loan proceeds, on the third sentence down, will be forgiven
provided the borrower has complied with all terms of the Act?
A
That's what it says.
Q
So again, not until that borrower actually submits for
forgiveness that application, the supporting documents are
submitted and approved, is there any SBA proceeds pursuant to
the CARES Act and the payment -- Paycheck Protection Program.
A
That's what it says; yes.
Q
For forgiveness, if you know, I'm sure you do, but what
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 35 of 48 PageID
869
36
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
is the process of what a borrower does to seek forgiveness?
A
At Sanibel Captiva Community Bank?
Q
Correct.
A
We have another third-party portal system of which the
borrower submits specific information that's requested, certain
basic information that's readily available. But the premise of
it is primarily submitting payroll records if they are
specifically only applying for forgiveness on payroll. If they
are providing -- or, excuse me, if they are requesting
forgiveness on that other 25 percent, which later changed to
40 percent, but if there are mortgage interest, or rent
expense, or items like that that they're applying for, then
they have to provide that information as well.
Q
The backup data.
A
The backup financial data to support the request that's
being made.
Q
So if a borrower were to file for forgiveness now, you
just mentioned it's 60 percent payroll, 40 percent the
non-payroll items.
A
Yes. There is another interim final rule that changed
that 75/25 split to 60/40.
Q
Okay. And then, after you have that third-party portal
accept the data, is it that third party reviewing for you, or
is there someone internally in the bank that's reviewing it?
A
Internal in the bank is reviewing. And then, once it
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 36 of 48 PageID
870
37
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
passes with us, we submit to the SBA.
Q
And then it's the SBA who then reviews it to determine
whether it's forgiven or not.
A
That is correct.
Q
The bank, Sanibel Captiva Bank, they can't make the
final decision, they just make the recommendation on what the
bank has reviewed from the application for forgiveness
submission.
A
That is correct.
Q
If you would look at Exhibit 13. And is that document
in the loan packet?
A
Yes.
Q
And, with regard to that, is it the same -- this is a
business certificate saying that, if the monies are used for
the business purposes for the SBA Paycheck Protection Program,
then it can be forgiven?
A
Yes.
Q
Thank you.
Exhibit 10, please, sir. That is the CARES Act
disclosure; correct? That's what you have?
A
Yes.
Q
And is that within the Sanibel Captiva loan packet,
Exhibit I?
A
Yes.
Q
Now, the prosecutor had you read and look at
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 37 of 48 PageID
871
38
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Paragraph 10. Do you remember doing that, where it says
borrower will use proceeds for this PPP loan solely for?
A
Yes.
Q
Is that use tied to the CARES Act?
A
Is that use tied to the --
Q
That use, that limitation on use, tied to the CARES Act?
It's called a CARES Act disclosure?
A
It's in this disclosure, yes.
Q
So if the applicant, now the borrower, was going to
submit for forgiveness pursuant to the CARES Act --
A
Yes.
Q
-- then that's what they had to comply with.
A
That's correct.
Q
And it says borrower will use the proceeds; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
Paragraph 12. Just read that for yourself. And then
I'll ask you a question.
(Witness examines evidence.)
Q
Have you read it?
A
Yes.
Q
Paragraph 12, applying to if a borrower applied for
forgiveness, and used the proceeds improperly, what the SBA
would do?
A
Yes, it does.
Q
And it says there that the SBA will direct borrower to
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 38 of 48 PageID
872
39
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
repay those amounts; correct?
A
That's what it says; yes.
Q
And you're unaware of any demand, direction, by the SBA,
to Target Roofing, to repay any amount back to Sanibel Captiva
Bank.
A
Correct.
Q
Number 12. Government's Exhibit Number 12. Again,
review and let me know if that's in Exhibit I, the loan packet.
A
Settlement statement, yes, it is.
Q
And this is an SBA form; correct?
A
That's a standard Form 1050; yes.
Q
And again, the use of proceeds in Exhibit 12 is
discussing the use of proceeds if the borrower applied for
forgiveness.
A
Yes.
Q
I'm going to go to 149. Same exercise. Look at it and
let me know if it's in the packet.
A
Loan forgiveness affidavit. Yes, it's in the package.
Q
And again, this loan forgiveness affidavit is -- I mean,
this was signed at the time of the actual loan closing;
correct?
A
Correct.
Q
So there's been no submission of -- excuse me -- of loan
forgiveness request at this time.
A
No.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 39 of 48 PageID
873
40
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
But this is affirming that, if there is an application
for loan forgiveness, the person who executes this document is
aware of the responsibilities if they seek forgiveness.
A
Yes.
MR. DICKERSON: May I approach the witness,
Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
(Counsel provides evidence to the witness.)
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
I've shown you what's been marked as Exhibit J. Just
take your time and look at it. It's five pages?
A
Yes.
Q
Do you recognize that document?
A
I recognize it as a DocuSign, which is a third-party
secure signature company that we utilized for this program.
Q
And is that the DocuSign secured summary of when the
loan, Exhibit I, was executed?
A
Yes.
Q
And is this a document that Sanibel Captiva Bank
maintains in its normal course of business with the loan
application?
A
We have this maintained for all of our borrowers.
Q
Every borrower, period, if they used DocuSign.
A
If they used DocuSign. Which the vast majority of them
did.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 40 of 48 PageID
874
41
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
Q
And during this time process, we go back to April, 2014,
the question of were you inside, could you be with people, that
was an issue; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
As far as coming straight to the bank and having someone
do a closing in person.
A
That is correct.
Q
And was it that you -- the bank promoted using DocuSign
during this time period?
A
Yes. Absolutely. That, and I couldn't sign 800 sets of
documents in a very short period of time.
Q
Right. I was about ready to get to two things. Number
one, you couldn't be at every closing.
A
Correct.
Q
And were you even in the office, or were you working
from home during that time period?
A
I was in the office the entire time.
Q
You were working.
A
Yes.
Q
How about your staff, were they at home, or were they
working remotely?
A
It was a mixture.
Q
The manner used in Exhibit J, the DocuSign, was enabling
the bank to be able to get everybody to be able to participate
and execute these loans in a timely fashion.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 41 of 48 PageID
875
42
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Yes. And secure.
Q
And tell me about the secure part. I missed that.
That's a good point.
A
I'm not a -- I don't have . . . I'm not a specialist in
IT, by any means, but I know DocuSign is a secure way, and our
IT department of our bank worked with our attorneys to make
sure that we were doing it in a safe and secure way, and it was
allowable for the PPP program.
Q
The CARES Act actually said, for these loans, they could
be done electronically.
A
Yes, it does.
MR. DICKERSON: Your Honor, defense moves in
Exhibit J.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. LEEMAN: Your Honor, at this moment there is an
objection. It wasn't on the exhibit list. I also haven't
heard a proffer of relevance. That would be the objection at
the moment. We may withdraw it.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled. Exhibit J
will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit J admitted.)
MR. DICKERSON: May I publish, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. DICKERSON: Thank you.
(Evidence was published via the projector.)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 42 of 48 PageID
876
43
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Now, Mr. DeCicco, this is the document we're talking
about as far as the DocuSign; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
And it has the timestamp, signature as far as when
Mr. Casey Crowther signed this on behalf of Target Roofing;
correct?
A
Yes.
Q
And it shows . . . I'm not going to say. You tell me
what that timestamp means to you.
A
Exact time.
Q
Okay. What does that mean?
A
When he sent it and clicked those signature buttons.
Q
Okay. And then what does viewed and signed mean?
A
Can you point to it directly, please? Oh. Sorry.
Viewed means -- I'd assume that means when he opened the
document to view it. And signed it a very short period of time
after. It does not take long to sign electronically.
Q
So this is just open it, view it, and then you just go
through and you click it; correct?
A
If you choose to do it that way, yes.
Q
And then what I'm showing you right there, that is your
DocuSign electronic signature; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
And you access it on the same day, 4/14; correct?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 43 of 48 PageID
877
44
KYLE DECICCO - CROSS/DICKERSON
A
Yes.
Q
And then that's when you viewed it, and then that's when
you signed the document.
A
Yes.
Q
And same thing, you've been signing these things, you're
going through, getting them done, because you have so many to
do; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
And did you ever read the entire loan documentation, or
did you rely upon the bank's counsel, and he was telling you
what the documentation consisted of, and relied upon him?
A
I read the majority of them, but I did not read
everything word for word.
MR. DICKERSON: Okay.
May I have one second, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
(Mr. Dickerson and Ms. Waid confer privately.)
MR. DICKERSON: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
(Following Redirect Examination, the following
Cross-Examination took place:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
Any recross, Mr. Dickerson?
MR. DICKERSON: Yes, Your Honor. I'll be brief.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 44 of 48 PageID
878
45
KYLE DECICCO - RECROSS/DICKERSON
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Hello, sir. We discussed this before, but, based upon
the government's questions, I'm going to, in a second, get the
right exhibit -- Exhibit 10, CARES Act disclosure? May I have
it published, please?
(Evidence was published via the projector.)
BY MR. DICKERSON:
Q
Now, we talked about this is disclosing to the borrower
what the CARES Act is; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
And go down to Paragraph 11. That's talking about the
75/25, as far as what's needed for loan forgiveness; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
The CARES Act is discussing, if somebody submits for
forgiveness, this, right here, the CARES Act disclosure, is
what's allowable for forgiveness under the CARES Act; correct?
A
Yes.
Q
So it has nothing do with somebody buying a boat, or
misrepresenting a boat, if they've never filed for forgiveness,
because it's still just a loan; correct? Take your time. Read
it.
A
Based on that statement right there?
Q
Yes.
A
I'd say yes.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 45 of 48 PageID
879
46
KYLE DECICCO - RECROSS/DICKERSON
Q
Okay. So, now, if someone bought a boat, and applied
for forgiveness, and used the boat as forgiveness, that would
be violating this provision; correct?
A
I would certainly assume so.
Q
Yes. So this is specifically to the CARES Act,
disclosing to the borrower, if they applied for forgiveness
pursuant to the CARES Act, what they can use the funds for.
A
Yes.
Q
Thank you.
Exhibit 7. Reading the entire document, specifically
the top. The purpose of this is for the guaranty; correct?
The purpose of Sanibel Captiva Bank, yeah, look at it, sir.
Take your time. The purpose of seven, which this is your
lender application form, the purpose of this is so Sanibel
Captiva Bank, if there is either a forgiveness application or
the borrower defaults, the bank then has the guaranty; correct?
A
This accompanied every loan.
Q
Right.
A
These loans were done in accordance with the program so
that they would be guaranteed.
Q
Correct. And this is the bank's representation for the
guaranty.
A
Yes.
Q
And the only time that the Sanibel Captiva Bank can
invoke that guaranty is, one, if the borrower submits for
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 46 of 48 PageID
880
47
KYLE DECICCO - RECROSS/DICKERSON
forgiveness.
A
I'm trying to think of another situation where the bank
would invoke the guaranty prior --
Q
I'll rephrase my question, because there is more than
one. There is the loan forgiveness and if the borrower doesn't
pay.
A
That would be the next point. If the loan was not
forgiven, and the first payment was missed, we could invoke the
guaranty.
Q
And there have been no payments missed on this loan;
correct?
A
Correct.
Q
And there's been no forgiveness filed; correct?
A
Correct.
Q
So the guaranty doesn't kick in until one of those
things happen, either application for forgiveness, approval by
the bank, approval by SBA, then there's payment, being one;
correct?
A
I'm not a specialist to know if the loan is currently
guaranteed or if it is only guaranteed upon the two items that
you're talking about.
Q
Okay. But there are no SBA loan proceeds in this loan
at all.
A
The loan was funded out of liquidity of Sanibel Captiva
Community Bank.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 47 of 48 PageID
881
48
Q
Right. And Sanibel Captiva Community Bank does not
receive any proceeds from the SBA unless there is either a
forgiveness payment by SBA or a guaranty by SBA for this loan.
A
The bank received a loan origination fee from the SBA.
Q
Right. The bank received a fee, but that wasn't towards
this loan. This didn't fund the loan.
A
That is correct.
MR. DICKERSON: Okay. Nothing further, Your Honor.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
(Thereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the cross-examination of
Kyle DeCicco was concluded.)
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
CERTIFICATE
I CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE
TRANSCRIPT FROM THE ORIGINAL STENOGRAPHIC RECORD IN THE
ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER.
Dated this 25th day of March, 2021.
_
JEFFREY G. THOMAS, RPR, CRR
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 2:20-cr-00114-JES-M_M Document 130 Filed 03/30/21 Page 48 of 48 PageID
882File and source
- File
- gov.uscourts.flmd.381779.130.0.pdf
- Size
- 162,185 bytes
- SHA-256
- dbc28f59874dad668db0c2ab668d6ab2f9239f912d8cfbfd1e625cff948ead64
- Original
- PACER (login required)