Exhibit 6 to the Mura Declaration - Public Version of ECF No.… — Brooks v. Thomson Reuters Corporation (Dkt. 148.5)

Record facts

U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California · No. 3:21-cv-01418-EMC · Doc. 148-5 · 2022-12-14 · Docket on CourtListener

Full text

EXHIBIT 6
(Redacted)
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 1 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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     UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE
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       NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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           SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION
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 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
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CAT BROOKS and RASHEED SHABAZZ, individually
and on behalf of all others similarly situated,
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         Plaintiffs,
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    vs.            Case No.  3:21-cv-1418-EMC
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THOMSON REUTERS CORPORATION,
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         Defendant.
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 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
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           *****  CONFIDENTIAL *****
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REMOTE VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF PAUL GODLEWSKI
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                 May 6, 2022
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           10:00 a.m. to 6:36 p.m.
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         REPORTED BY ANITA KORNBURGER
       REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTER
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          *****  CONFIDENTIAL  *****
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 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
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Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 2 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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                A P P E A R A N C E S
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GIBBS LAW GROUP LLP, by
Mr. Ezekiel S. Wald
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Mr. Andre Mura
Mr. Mark Troutman
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1111 Broadway, Suite 2100
Oakland, California 94607
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510-350-9700
zsw@classlawgroup.com
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Appearing by videoconference on behalf of the
Plaintiffs.
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SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY
 8
OVERSIGHT PROJECT, by
Mr. Albert Fox Cahn (pro hac vice)
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40 Rector Street, 9th Floor
New York, NY 10006
10
albert@stopspying.org
Appearing by videoconference on behalf of the
11
Plaintiffs.
12
PERKINS COIE LLP, by
Ms. Susan Fahringer
13
Ms. Nicola Menaldo
Mr. Hayden Schottlaender
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1201 Third Avenue, Suite 4900
Seattle, Washington 98101-3099
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sfahringer@perkinscoie.com
Appearing by videoconference on behalf of the
16
Defendant.
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ALSO PRESENT:  Jon Olson - Thomson Reuters
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                      I N D E X
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20
Examination by                        Page
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Mr. Wald. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
22
23
24
25
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 3 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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     Q.   Was it in the last year?
 2
     A.   I would assume, based on the most recent
 3
date that I can see.
 4
     Q.   The current position at the top under
 5
Progressive Career Path says 2021.  Is that still
 6
your position today?
 7
     A.   No.
 8
     Q.   What is your position today?
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     A.   Senior director of marketing, outbound
10
product marketing.
11
     Q.   On the top of this document, under your
12
name, it has your work e-mail and then it has a
13
phone number.  Is that your work phone number?
14
     A.   That's my personal number.
15
     Q.   Your personal number.  And then next to
16
your personal number there's a black box.  It looks
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like something was crossed out.  Do you know what
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was crossed out?
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     A.   I can't recall.
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     Q.   Did you cross it out?
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     A.   No.
22
     Q.   Did you ask for it to be crossed out?
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     A.   No.
24
     Q.   Does it look to you like it might be an
25
address?
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 4 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 33
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developing strategies that help bring the CLEAR
 2
product to its customers in order to ultimately
 3
increase revenue and sales?
 4
     A.   To bring a product to customers so they
 5
can become more efficient with the challenges that
 6
we are faced with so that, yes, Thomson Reuters,
 7
could have a successful product line.
 8
     Q.   It also says here you drove the go to
 9
market launch for Abogado.com; is that right?
10
     A.   Yes.
11
     Q.   Does CLEAR work with international
12
companies?
13
     A.   No.  But I'm curious as to why you asked
14
about Abogado.com and then back to CLEAR.
15
     Q.   It looks here like you work with some
16
relationships with organizations that might focus
17
on customer groups that could include non-United
18
States residents; is that right?
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     A.   Abogado.com is a FindLaw-related
20
solution.  It has nothing to do with CLEAR.
21
     Q.   So CLEAR's customers are entirely United
22
States based?
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     A.   That is correct.
24
     Q.   And then it says you led the operational
25
and executional integration of Pondera 2020
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 5 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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BY MR. WALD:
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     Q.   Can you tell me how CLEAR is used for
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contact tracing?
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     A.   I don't know how it's used, other than
 5
speculating that it has to do with connecting data
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points.
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     Q.   What sort of data points would CLEAR
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connect to assist with contact tracing?
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     A.   The same ones we talked about before with
10
names and addresses.
11
     Q.   Knowing names and addresses would help
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contact trace?
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     A.   That would be my assumption.  But again,
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I'm not technically aware of how that works.
15
     Q.   Do you know if CLEAR has location data?
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     A.   As in addresses?
17
     Q.   More precise than addresses, as in
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individual locations at given periods of time.
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          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
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          THE WITNESS:  I don't -- well, I don't
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believe the CLEAR product does itself.
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BY MR. WALD:
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     Q.   You don't believe the CLEAR product has
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information on an individual's location at a given
25
point in time?
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 6 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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     A.   Again, this is my ignorance of the
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licenses that we have with other organizations,
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et cetera, so I don't know if that CLEAR product
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itself has that type of information or that we are
 5
able to -- or if we are able to -- well, I know we
 6
 7
  
 8
 9
10
     Q.   And we spoke before about Pondera.  Do
11
you remember that?
12
     A.   Yes.
13
     Q.   Do you know if Pondera uses an
14
individual's WiFi connectivity to track their
15
location?
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     A.   I don't know that.
17
     Q.   Have you ever seen any discussion of
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Pondera using an individual's WiFi connectivity to
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track their location?
20
     A.   I'm not certain, but -- I couldn't
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confirm.  But if there's an e-mail or something
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that talks about it, that might, again, jog my
23
memory.  But I haven't been able -- I haven't
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worked a lot on the Pondera product other than the
25
initial setup behind the scenes, like I mentioned.
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 7 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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on your own?
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     A.   Not me, no.
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          MR. WALD:  We can take down plaintiff's
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exhibit, please.
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BY MR. WALD:
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     Q.   Does CLEAR track where the subject of a
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search is located?
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     A.   Do you mean like in real time?
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     Q.   In any sense that you understand to
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include location.
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          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
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          THE WITNESS:  I mean, CLEAR
13
doesn't -- CLEAR doesn't track people.
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BY MR. WALD:
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     Q.   Does CLEAR have information on the
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location of individuals who are the subject of
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searches through CLEAR?
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     A.   CLEAR has information about business and
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individuals and where they live or may have lived.
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     Q.   And have you ever seen -- excuse me.  Go
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ahead.
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     A.   No, I'm sorry.  I apologize.  I'm trying
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to understand, I guess, the definition of track.
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     Q.   Have you ever seen any information about
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how many individuals are searchable through CLEAR?
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 8 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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     A.   Yes.
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     Q.   Did you speak with your counsel about
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your testimony today?
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     A.   No.
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     Q.   Did you speak with anyone else during the
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break?
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     A.   No.
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     Q.   Before we took the break, I asked you
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whether you discussed individual privacy in your
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marketing materials.  Do you remember that?
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     A.   Yes.
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     Q.   And you said not in as many words; is
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that fair?
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     A.   Can I have that read back?  I want to
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make sure I understand the full context, please.
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     Q.   You said, "I don't know that we
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specifically call that out, but I know in our
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marketing materials for anything in the public, we
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have our FCRA language attached to the bottom of
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everything."
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     A.   Yes, I remember that.  Thank you.
22
     Q.   In your marketing materials, do you
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discuss how people can opt out of CLEAR?
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     A.   You mean users or people whose
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information would be in there?
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 9 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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     Q.   People whose information would be in the
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platform.
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     A.   Not in our marketing materials, I don't
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believe.
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     Q.   Do you know how people can opt out of
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being included in the CLEAR database?
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     A.   I don't know the exact process, but I
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know there is a process.
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     Q.   Have you seen any information about the
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success rate of opt-out requests?
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     A.   I have not.
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     Q.   Do you know if every opt-out request is
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processed in the same way?
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     A.   I do not know.
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     Q.   Do you know if users can report incorrect
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information that they find in CLEAR?
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          MS. FAHRINGER:  Could you read back -- or
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could you read back that question, please?
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BY MR. WALD:
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     Q.   Do you know if users can report incorrect
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information that they find in CLEAR?
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          MS. FAHRINGER:  Thank you.
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          THE WITNESS:  I'm not in charge of that
24
process, but again, I know there's a process.  So I
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don't know the answer to that question.
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 10 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 163
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that?
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     A.   Probably Sonya Southward.
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     Q.   If Thomson Reuters is notified that
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information in CLEAR is wrong, do they notify the
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subject of that information?
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     A.   I do not know.
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          MR. WALD:  We can take down plaintiff's
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Exhibit 16.
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BY MR. WALD:
10
     Q.   Do you know if people can change how
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their information is presented in CLEAR, either the
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order in which their information is shown or the
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format in which that information is shown?
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     A.   I do not know that.
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     Q.   Do you know if Thomson Reuters tells
16
people that their information is available through
17
CLEAR?
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     A.   Are you asking if Thomson Reuters
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proactively tells people that?
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     Q.   Yes.
21
     A.   Not that I'm aware of.
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     Q.   Do you know if Thomson Reuters notifies
23
individuals that their information was searched
24
through CLEAR?
25
     A.   I do not know.
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 11 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
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     Q.   Do you know who would?
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     A.   No.  I mean, again, all of those types of
 3
questions that I don't know about the product I
 4
would ask Kevin Appold.
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     Q.   Is it a challenge from a marketing
 6
perspective to make sure that people know that
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CLEAR exists?  I'm sorry, sir, I did not hear your
 8
answer.
 9
     A.   Yes.
10
     Q.   Do you think the general public knows
11
about CLEAR?
12
     A.   For the most part, no.
13
     Q.   What do you think the brand awareness of
14
CLEAR is?
15
          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
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          THE WITNESS:  If I may ask two questions?
17
One, are you asking currently?  And two, how should
18
I quantify that?
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BY MR. WALD:
20
     Q.   I'll strike the question.
21
             Plaintiffs will introduce as
22
Exhibit 17 a document labeled TR_BROOKS060007.
23
That document is now available in your folder.  And
24
please let me know when you're able to open it.
25
     A.   Okay, I have it open.
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 12 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 172
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instead of simply bringing you facts."
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     A.   Are we on 60008?
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     Q.   600008, yes.
 4
     A.   Oh, I see.  I had to scroll over.  I
 5
apologize.
 6
     Q.   Did I read that correctly?
 7
     A.   Yes.
 8
     Q.   What does that mean?
 9
          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
10
BY MR. WALD:
11
     Q.   I can specify.
12
     A.   Yes, please.
13
     Q.   What do you think it means to say CLEAR
14
helps you find answers instead of simply bringing
15
you facts?
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          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
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          THE WITNESS:  I think it means CLEAR
18
helps you make connections versus --
19
BY MR. WALD:
20
     Q.   Would you say --
21
     A.   -- just having a name, for example.
22
     Q.   So would you say that collection of
23
information available through CLEAR is more
24
valuable than the individual facts that comprise
25
that information?
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 13 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 173
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     A.   I think the value of CLEAR is, as I said
 2
earlier, is that it allows a user investigator to
 3
be more efficient.  Instead of having to go to
 4
seven places to find the information, they could go
 5
to one or fewer.
 6
     Q.   In the bottom left, do you see a section
 7
that says "Free training and support"?
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     A.   I do.
 9
     Q.   What if a customer wants to run a sample
10
search?
11
     A.   What if -- what if they want -- what do
12
you mean, what if they want to run a sample search?
13
     Q.   Let's say a customer needed support using
14
the person search, and they wanted to run a sample
15
to understand how it would work.  Is that something
16
that the support staff would be able to do?
17
     A.   The support staff will use -- excuse
18
me -- will use a Jane sample document as a sample
19
search, which is a fake entity to show the
20
functionality of the product.
21
     Q.   And Jane sample document is a sample
22
report that shows all of the possible information
23
on an individual for a fictionalized person; is
24
that right?
25
     A.   I couldn't tell you with certainty that
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 14 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 191
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     A.   Again, I'm not recognizing the document,
 2
but I have seen documents like this before.
 3
     Q.   Do you see at the top next to the number
 4
one it says "Current and accurate data"?
 5
     A.   I see that, yes.
 6
     Q.   And then there's a table below that.  And
 7
the bottom left column in that table says CLEAR
 8
examples?
 9
     A.   Yes.
10
     Q.   Can you tell me what a credit header is?
11
     A.   The best of my knowledge, it's the name
12
and address information at the top of a credit
13
report.
14
     Q.   Can you tell me what a reverse phone is?
15
     A.   I could not accurately describe that, no.
16
     Q.   Below that table there's a header that
17
says Thorough Data Results.  Do you see that?
18
     A.   Yes.
19
     Q.   And the top right cell in that table
20
says, "CLEAR is powered by billions of data points
21
and leverages cutting-edge public records
22
technology to bring all key content together in a
23
customizable dashboard."  Did I read that
24
correctly?
25
     A.   Yes, you did.
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 15 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 220
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     Q.   And do you think having more information
 2
available through CLEAR enhances the value of
 3
CLEAR?
 4
     A.   Yes, it does.
 5
     Q.   Do you think there's any specific
 6
information that enhances the value of CLEAR more
 7
than other information?
 8
     A.   I don't know that I could articulate
 9
anything specific.
10
     Q.   Have you done any market research on what
11
information customers or potential customers most
12
want to see?
13
     A.   There has been research to try to
14
understand that, yes.
15
     Q.   And does the number of people in the
16
CLEAR database enhance the value of CLEAR?
17
          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
18
          THE WITNESS:  The number of people
19
in -- the number of records in CLEAR would enhance
20
the value depending on the use case.
21
BY MR. WALD:
22
     Q.   What sorts of information has your market
23
research suggested your customers most want to see?
24
          MS. FAHRINGER:  Form.
25
          THE WITNESS:  I would have to look back
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 16 of 19

CONFIDENTIAL - PAUL GODLEWSKI
Golkow Litigation Services
Page 248
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         I, ANITA KORNBURGER, Registered Professional
 5
    Reporter and Notary Public, do  hereby certify
 6
    that the preceding deposition was recorded by
 7
    me and reduced to writing under my personal
 8
    direction.
 9
        I further certify that said deposition was
10
    taken remotely, with all parties appearing by
11
    videoconference, on May 6, 2022, commencing at
12
    10:00 a.m. and concluding at 6:36 p.m.
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        I further certify that I am not a relative
14
    or employee or attorney or counsel of any of
15
    the parties, or a relative or employee of such
16
    attorney or counsel, or financially interested
17
    directly or indirectly in this action.
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        In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my
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    hand and affixed my seal of office at this
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    11th day of May,  2022.
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        __________________________________
    ANITA KORNBURGER, RPR - Notary
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       Commission #1166910800033
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My commission expires January 31, 2025.
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Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 17 of 19

- 1 - 
 
June 10, 2022 
 
 
 
Re: 
Brooks et al. v. Thomson Reuters Corporation, USDC Northern District of California 
- San Francisco Division Case No. 3:21-cv-01418-EMC: Defendant’s Deposition 
Errata (Paul Godlewski Deposition Transcript dated May 6, 2022) 
 
To whom it may concern:  
 
 
I, Paul Godlewski, have reviewed the transcript of my deposition in Brooks et al. v. 
Thomson Reuters Corporation, Case No. 3:21-cv-01418-EMC, taken on May 6, 2022. Attached 
hereto is a list of errata identified in the deposition transcript. 
 
 
 
___________________________ 
 
 
 
 
_______________ 
PAUL GODLEWSKI  
 
 
 
 
 
DATE 
 
 
 
 
6/10/2022
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 18 of 19

- 2 -
Godlewski Deposition Errata Sheet 
Page : 
Line(s) 
Existing Testimony 
Corrected Testimony 
Reason 
30:21 
“Basic, and as I alluded 
to earlier in my. . .”  
“Basically, and as I 
alluded to earlier in my. . 
.”  
Transcription error 
33:6 
“. . . we are faced with 
so that, yes, Thomson 
Reuters. . .” 
“. . . they are faced with 
so that, yes, Thomson 
Reuters. . .” 
Transcription error 
43:7 
“I’m sorry.” 
“I’m sorry, I can’t 
recall.” 
Transcription error 
63:21, 63:25, 
64:10, 64:13-
14 
“John Koske” / “John 
McKoske” 
“John Koski” 
Transcription error 
68:21 
“. . .access to that 
product as a marketer. . 
.” 
“. . .access to that process 
as a marketer. . .” 
Transcription error 
71:22 
“. . .but I’d to look at it 
in detail to answer 
specific. . .”  
“. . .but I’d like to look 
at it in detail to answer 
specific. . .”  
Transcription error 
100:6 
“Judge Tens’” 
“Judge Chen’s” 
Transcription error 
126:19 
“. . .a cell sheet of sorts. 
. .” 
“. . .a sellsheet of sorts. . 
.” 
Transcription error 
175:12 
“. . .I do not train.” 
“. . .I do not train 
customers.” 
Transcription error 
182:23-24 
“Well, Brook Martin, 
but he works for Kevin 
Appold.” 
Strike sentence: 
“Well, Brook Martin, but 
he works for Kevin 
Appold.” 
Transcription error 
with no known 
substitution.  
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC   Document 148-5   Filed 12/14/22   Page 19 of 19

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