Court filing
Jury Trial Transcript, Day 3 (October 27, 2022) — United States v. Adedayo Ilori
Summary
A transcript of jury trial proceedings for October 27, 2022 in United States of America v. Adedayo Ilori, 21 Cr. 746 (MKV), before Hon. Mary Kay Vyskocil in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. It is Doc. 96, filed November 18, 2022, and runs to 256 pages. Before the jury enters, the government gives time estimates for its remaining witnesses and says it expects to rest its case in chief the next day, and the court and counsel agree that one witness will be called outside the presence of the jury so any claim of privilege can be addressed. The jury then returns and a special agent resumes direct examination about location data for a cell phone, including a map in evidence as Government Exhibit 571 plotting the phone's location between midnight and 5:00 AM. He describes GPS data, cell tower location data and a cell site simulator.
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No. 1:21-cr-00746-MKV · Doc. 96 · Docket on CourtListener
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Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ------------------------------x 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 4 v. 5 ADEDAYO ILORI, 6 Defendant. ------------------------------x Filed 11/18/22 Page 1 of 256 21 Cr. 746 (MKV) Jury Trial 7 New York, N.Y. October 27, 2022 9:30 a.m. 8 9 10 Before: 11 HON. MARY KAY VYSKOCIL, 12 District Judge 13 APPEARANCES 14 15 16 17 18 DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: JULIANA N. MURRAY, ESQ. DAVID R. FELTON, ESQ. Assistant United States Attorneys 19 BRILL LEGAL GROUP, P.C. Attorneys for Defendant BY: PETER E. BRILL, ESQ. 20 ALSO PRESENT: ISABEL LOFTUS, Paralegal Specialist, USAO 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 250 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 1 (Case called; appearances noted) 2 THE COURT: Page 2 of 256 251 I am told one of our jurors just arrived. 3 It is the same juror who was late yesterday, so I will again 4 admonish them. 5 train issues, so as soon as they get here, we'll get going. 6 But I thought, first, let me just check, is there anything new 7 this morning? And another juror called and is en route having 8 MS. MURRAY: No, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Is there an update about Mr. Recaimer? 10 MS. MURRAY: Yes. 11 12 13 14 The Marshals have confirmed he is all set to be produced tomorrow. THE COURT: Okay. So we were told, we got a call late yesterday that some kind of order from the Court was required. MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. My understanding from 15 speaking with the Marshals and speaking with our office is that 16 there was some disconnect between the Marshal's office and the 17 Bureau of Prisons with respect to whether Mr. Recaimer was a 18 government witness or a defense witness. 19 respect to a separation order -- Also, an issue with 20 THE COURT: Yes. 21 MS. MURRAY: -- and just how the different facilities 22 transport individuals. 23 THE COURT: Are they in the same facility now? 24 MS. MURRAY: They are, and they're under a separation 25 order, so the Marshals have arranged so they are on a separate SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 3 of 256 1 transport so they are not on the same transport back from the 2 court, so we're all set for tomorrow. 3 THE COURT: And the order was entered by whom? 4 MS. MURRAY: It is a request from our office, and 5 6 7 8 252 formally approved from the Marshals. THE COURT: Okay. The suggestion we got last night was someone from your office said that I had to enter an order. MS. MURRAY: I understand there was a disconnect, and 9 I will get back -- 10 THE COURT: As long as it's all worked out. 11 MS. MURRAY: Yes. 12 THE COURT: Mr. Brill, you are comfortable with this? 13 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 14 Mr. Greenwald is available tomorrow. He said if there 15 was a mistake, he would be okay today, but that doesn't seem to 16 be the case. 17 more specific timeframe -- 18 THE COURT: So -- but as the day goes on, if I can give him a It's really a question of when the 19 Marshals get him here. 20 thing, we can tell the jurors and they can be a little later 21 tomorrow. 22 If the Marshals get him here first So we'll see how it progresses, but I don't know how 23 soon the Marshals are going to get him here. 24 coming in the morning? 25 MS. MURRAY: I believe so. Like, is he If I may have a moment, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 4 of 256 253 Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Sure. Yes. 3 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. We expect that he will 4 be here around the normal 9:00 a.m. time. 5 asked for him to be produced. 6 THE COURT: Okay. That's what time we So in the normal course. So that might make sense then that 7 Mr. Greenwald come first thing in the morning, and we'll tell 8 the jurors 9:45 or something like that. 9 them too much later because they're taking the liberty of being 10 late anyway. 11 MS. MURRAY: I don't want to tell On the timing point, your Honor, if we 12 can check in at the end of the day so, to the extent we can 13 check in with Mr. Greenwald, and Mr. Recamier is testifying, we 14 would prefer to have that -- the government's case in order. 15 THE COURT: Yes. So on timing, I was under the 16 impression Special Agent Lidsky was your last witness, but you 17 have six more witnesses after that. 18 estimates on those witnesses? 19 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 20 THE COURT: Is next Elizabeth Palmer? 21 MS. MURRAY: Yes, that's correct. 22 THE COURT: How long are you estimating? 23 MS. MURRAY: Estimating about an hour for her. 24 THE COURT: Samantha Aaron? 25 MS. MURRAY: About 20 minutes. So can you give me SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 1 THE COURT: Thank you. 2 Who is Elizabeth Palmer? 3 MS. MURRAY: 4 Filed 11/18/22 Page 5 of 256 254 Elizabeth Palmer is a forensic analyst who is going to be doing financial analysis. 5 THE COURT: Samantha Aaron? 6 MS. MURRAY: Samantha Aaron is an employee at M&T 8 THE COURT: Randy Martin, how long? 9 MS. MURRAY: Around 15 to 20 minutes, also an employee 7 10 Bank. at M&T Bank. 11 THE COURT: And Robert Bateman? 12 MS. MURRAY: About 15 to 20 minutes. 13 estate agent. 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 MS. MURRAY: Around 15 minutes. 16 He's a real Jamieson, William Jamieson? He is another identity theft victim. 17 THE COURT: Damjan Hezir? 18 MS. MURRAY: He's a witness -- he is going to be 19 testifying in brief about the searches and arrest, but 20 otherwise he will bring in the bulk of our electronic evidence, 21 so we expect his direct to go two to three hours. 22 final witness. 23 24 25 He's our THE COURT: So you're clearly going to spill over into MS. MURRAY: I believe the government's case in chief Monday. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 6 of 256 1 will be finished tomorrow, subject to cross of course and the 2 length of cross. 3 THE COURT: All right. Subject to cross, then I'm 4 going to hold you to finishing tomorrow, because I told a 5 number of these jurors that this wasn't going to spill into 6 next week, so you need to keep things moving. 7 MS. MURRAY: If I may clarify, your Honor, when you 8 say finish tomorrow, I think there was a misunderstanding on 9 the government's part. 10 would finish our case in chief, not when -- We understood you to be asking when we 11 THE COURT: I mean your case in chief. 12 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 13 255 We certainly believe we will be in a position to rest tomorrow. 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 MR. BRILL: No. 16 THE COURT: Then we're just waiting for our last juror 17 18 19 Anything from you, Mr. Brill? Thank you, your Honor. and I'll be back when we have everybody. MS. MURRAY: Okay. Just one more point of clarification. That assumes of course no unexpected juror delays. 20 THE COURT: I understand. 21 MS. MURRAY: But if it's 30 to 45 minutes -- 22 THE COURT: No, that's out of everybody's control. 23 MS. MURRAY: Thank you. 24 THE COURT: Thank you. 25 All right. Ms. Dempsey, you'll let me know when we're SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 7 of 256 ready. I'm sorry. I did think of one more thing, but Ms. Dempsey can check anyway and let us know where we're at. 4 You can sit. 5 So let me just mention what the issue is. 6 to confirm everybody's on the same page here with respect to 7 Mr. Recamier. 8 the jury obviously. 9 put, and he or Mr. Greenwald will tell us if he's invoking. 10 And then depending on the questioning and all, I'll rule on 11 whether I'm going to compel him. 12 13 You can sit. I just want We're going to call him outside the presence of You'll put whatever questions you want to The government has said you're not going to immunize him, right? 14 MS. MURRAY: That is correct. 15 THE COURT: I just want to be clear, we're all in 16 agreement the jury does not learn that you wished to call 17 Mr. Recamier. 18 MR. BRILL: 19 One thing I'm not clear on, I've never been in a Yes, your Honor. 20 situation where counsel is allowed to invoke on behalf of the 21 person testifying. 22 THE COURT: 23 24 25 256 He can say it, but, I mean, his counsel's going to say it, and he's going to agree presumably. MR. BRILL: Right. I was hoping to at least hear it from him. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 8 of 256 1 THE COURT: 2 wished to call him? 3 MR. BRILL: That's the rules. 4 THE COURT: It is the rule, but I just wanted to 5 257 But you agree the jury does not learn you confirm it on the record. 6 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 7 MS. MURRAY: It's confirmed by the government as well. 8 THE COURT: All right. 9 10 I'm told the juror is present, so Ms. Dempsey will bring the jury out. Thank you. (Continued on next page) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 9 of 256 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Please be seated, everyone. 3 All right. Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. 4 you for being here. 5 ask you, please, you need to do better. 6 258 Thank For those of you who were late, I have to I promised people we were going to work through to try 7 to complete the trial as quickly as possible, and the delays 8 that we've had are going to create issues. 9 better, please. So you need to do All right? 10 I'm trying to keep things to a relatively short time 11 frame, and it's just not fair to your fellow jurors or to the 12 parties, all right? 13 So enough said on that front. 14 Ms. Murray. 15 MS. MURRAY: 16 The government calls Special Agent Lidsky to continue Yes. 17 his testimony. 18 HARRY LIDSKY, resumed. 19 DIRECT EXAMINATION 20 THE COURT: 21 THE WITNESS: 22 THE COURT: 23 remain under oath. Thank you, your Honor. Good morning, Special Agent Lidsky. Good morning, Your Honor. All right. 24 THE WITNESS: 25 THE COURT: Sir, and I remind you that you Thank you, your Honor. If you would please have a seat. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Ms. Murray. 2 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 10 of 256 259 Thank you, your Honor. 3 BY MS. MURRAY: 4 Q. Good morning, Special Agent Lidsky. 5 A. Good morning. 6 Q. Where we left off yesterday we were talking about some data 7 reflecting the location of the 0642 cell phone. 8 pick up there. 9 MS. MURRAY: I'm going to Ms. Loftus, if you could please publish 10 what's in evidence as Government Exhibit 571. 11 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, this is a map on which you -- 12 MS. MURRAY: 13 JUROR: Can the jury see it? No. 14 A. I don't have it yet either. 15 Q. This is a map on which is plotted the location information 16 for the 0642 phone between the hours of midnight and 5:00 AM. 17 And when we left off, you were telling us, based on 18 your training and experience, what, if anything, the location 19 of the phone at 5:00 AM indicates to you. 20 A. 21 reveal the place where somebody is sleeping, possibly somewhere 22 they live, but where the phone is each and every evening. 23 Q. 24 pursued any additional electronic surveillance on the 0642 25 phone other than the GPS warrant we've discussed? For me, at least a majority of investigations, this would Did there come a time during your investigation when you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 11 of 256 260 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What additional type of electronic surveillance technique 3 did you pursue? 4 A. 5 and eventually advanced to what's known as a cell site 6 simulator location based tracking tool as an investigative step 7 as well. 8 Q. 9 subject to warrant? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Can you explain what a cell site simulator is? 12 A. So it's a device that is capable of -- it's a tool that's 13 capable of identifying a much more precise location of a mobile 14 device, of a mobile phone in this case. 15 that we see on the map in St. Albans, it may give us a five to 16 15 block radius as a search area. 17 that's a lot of people. 18 So in addition to the GPS data, cell tower location data, And is that an investigative technique that you pursued That also requires a search warrant. So where this circle As you know, in New York, It gives us an area, but it doesn't get granular 19 enough where we can identify a house. And since I'm chasing a 20 phone to try to identify whose pocket it's in, I need more 21 precise data in order to be successful. 22 simulator is a tool that can identify in good conditions a 23 house or a building or a -- you know, a row of houses, if 24 they're connected. 25 Q. The cell site And did there come a time when you activated or deployed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 12 of 256 261 1 the cell site simulator? 2 A. Yes, we did. 3 Q. What geographic area were you in approximately when you 4 deployed that tool? 5 A. 6 guidance. 7 T-Mobile is able to provide some more -- it's more precise than 8 what we see here on the map, but it's not precise enough to 9 identify a house. 10 more precise figures, that is what the cell site simulators use 11 to really pinpoint their search. 12 three-to-four block radius to start in, and from there they 13 just dial it in. We used the range here on the map as our -- as our initial We also had the service provider in this case. But with that additional data that has the So that gave them a 14 Well, I can get into how the tool works from a 15 layman's perspective, which is all I am on this, but -- 16 Q. First, when did you perform the cell site simulator? 17 A. Very early morning hours of September 8th, 2021. 18 Q. And why at all did you deploy the tool at that time in the 19 very early morning hours? 20 A. 21 we had reasonable likelihood to believe that the phone would be 22 present between the hours of 12:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. 23 Number two, it's a lot easier for us as law 24 enforcement to perform surveillance like this, both electronic 25 and physical at a time when people are asleep. Well, for one, as you see on the map, we know the phone or It allows us to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 13 of 256 262 1 go undetected, which is what we try to do in a covert 2 investigation. 3 Q. 4 simulator tool? 5 A. 6 the phone was located. 7 Q. And what happened next? 8 A. After that, we performed additional investigative 9 techniques to confirm our -- you know, what we had found, what 10 the tool directed us, to include additional physical 11 surveillance, writing down license plates of the cars that were 12 in the driveways of the residence or, in this case, residences, 13 because it was primarily two, but could also be one on either 14 end of that. And, at the time, we were still covert on this. What, if anything, did you learn from the cell site We were able to identify a range of houses where we believe 15 So it ended up being four addresses. So, took the license plates down, and I went from 16 there. Also, conducted research on the house the same way that 17 I conducted research at the front end on the real John Herttua 18 and determined, based on what I was finding, that I didn't 19 think he was involved. 20 I did similar type research on these residences, see 21 who lives there, who might stay there, who owns the residence, 22 things like that. 23 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, at this time I'd like to pass 24 out a binder to the Court, the defense, and Special Agent 25 Lidsky. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Murray. 1 2 A. 3 Page 14 of 256 Thank you. THE COURT: Thank you. 4 Q. 5 government exhibits in it. 6 been marked for identification as Government Exhibits 500 7 through 502. 8 when you're finished. 9 263 Special Agent Lidsky, that binder has a number of If you can please turn to what's Look through those exhibits, and then look at me Do you recognize Government Exhibits 500 through 502? 10 A. I do. 11 Q. What are they? 12 A. These are photographs. 13 Q. Are those photographs fair and accurate representations of 14 locations that were relevant to your investigation? 15 A. 16 17 Yes, they are. MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibits 500, 501, and 502. 18 MR. BRILL: No objection. 19 THE COURT: They'll be admitted. 20 (Government's Exhibits 500, 501, and 502 received in 21 evidence) 22 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 23 Government Exhibit 501. 24 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, what is shown in this photograph? 25 A. These are the residences where the cell site simulator SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 15 of 256 264 1 indicated the phone was most likely contained. 2 Q. 3 surveillance in this approximate location? 4 A. 5 series of addresses, immediately after we were done using the 6 tool, around 2:00 a.m., I came through and wrote down the 7 license plate numbers of the cars that were in the driveways 8 here or parked immediately out in front, just hoping one would 9 be associated. 10 Q. 11 license plate information for in St. Albans on September 8, 12 2021 became relevant to your investigation? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What kind of vehicle or vehicles that you recorded the 15 license plate information for became relevant? 16 A. There was a black Mitsubishi Outlander SUV. 17 Q. So we'll comment back to that car in a moment. 18 And you mentioned that you conducted additional Yes. So once we had these addresses identified, or the Did there come a time when any of the vehicles you recorded MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, you can take it down, please. 19 Q. Turning your attention to September 8th, 2021, but now 20 several hours after you employed the cell site simulator tool. 21 What were you doing that was relevant to your investigation 22 that day? 23 A. 24 physical surveillance. 25 Q. I was back out in the area of St. Albans conducting And you mentioned surveillance, can you describe what you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 16 of 256 265 1 mean by physical surveillance? 2 A. 3 involves you going out and looking for actual events or things 4 of relevancy to the investigation. 5 surveillance tools are helpful. 6 phone was in St. Albans, but until I see somebody with a phone 7 or if I'm looking for a car, until I see the car, the 8 electronic tools are only so good. 9 combined. 10 Physical surveillance is what we refer to as activity that So the electronic In this case, they told me the So surveillance needs to be The electronic surveillance is a tool, an aid, it 11 helps guide where we conduct physical surveillance, but from a 12 law enforcement perspective, we need to see what's happening. 13 It gives us leads. 14 logically we might go into a store and try to get records 15 afterwards. 16 human, just good old police work. 17 Q. 18 establish your surveillance? 19 A. 20 street address that we had generated from using the cell site 21 simulator. 22 Q. 23 in St. Albans that day? 24 A. I saw a car which stuck out to me. 25 Q. Why, if at all, did you notice that particular car? If we see a target go into a store, So it's a necessary component that involves the And at that time on September 8, 2021, where did you In the area of St. Albans Greens, but now focusing on the And what, if anything, do you recall from your surveillance SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 17 of 256 266 1 A. So it was a white Jeep Grand Cherokee with Maryland tags, 2 and the reason it stuck out to me was I have a white Jeep Grand 3 Cherokee personally, and I'm from Virginia. 4 see someone on the street wearing the same sweater or tie you 5 have, you kind of just recognize it that, oh, yeah, I've got 6 that. 7 Q. 8 became relevant to your investigation? 9 A. There did. 10 Q. When was that? 11 A. Later that day on September 8, 2021. 12 Q. And at that later time on September 8, 2021, what were you 13 doing? 14 A. 15 the ongoing electronic surveillance. 16 Q. 17 that physical surveillance? 18 A. This was in lower Manhattan on Eighth Street. 19 Q. Why were you in that location? 20 A. The phone was pinging in that location. 21 GPS points we had received from T-Mobile showed that vehicle -- 22 or the phone, rather, located on Eighth Street somewhere 23 between Lafayette and Broadway. 24 Q. That's the 0642 phone, correct? 25 A. Correct. So, like, if you That's the only reason it stuck out. Did there come a time when a white Jeep Grand Cherokee Again, conducting physical surveillance in conjunction with And in that later time in the day where were you conducting The most current SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 18 of 256 267 1 Q. How did a white Jeep Grand Cherokee become relevant as you 2 were conducting physical surveillance that day? 3 A. So as I -- my partner and I were on foot. We were walking 4 towards the area where the ping location was. And as we turned 5 from Lafayette on Eighth Street towards Broadway, I observed a 6 white Jeep Grand Cherokee with Maryland tags parked on the 7 north side of Eighth Street. 8 wow, that's the second time I have seen a white Jeep Grand 9 Cherokee with Maryland tags in New York today. 10 Q. 11 to your investigation. 12 A. 13 We got to the corner of Broadway. 14 data, and waited for another ping to come in from T-Mobile. 15 They come every 15 minutes. 16 was still right around us, right on the area of Eighth Street, 17 so we were standing on the corner looking, and we observed an 18 individual that I recognized from the investigation. 19 Q. 20 investigation? 21 A. 22 from Coinbase that we looked at earlier, or yesterday rather, I 23 saw an individual that matches that person who I thought was 24 the same person. 25 Q. And I remarked to my colleague, What did you observe next, if anything, that was relevant We continued walking on Eighth Street towards Broadway. We checked the location And a ping showed that the phone How did you recognize that individual from the Based on the photos we'd received, particularly the ones Now, at that point in your investigation, did you have an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 19 of 256 268 1 understanding of the identity of the individual from the 2 Coinbase photos? 3 A. I did not. 4 Q. And at that point in your investigation, did you have an 5 understanding of the identity of the individual you observed 6 during surveillance who appeared to match the individual from 7 the Coinbase photos? 8 A. I did not. 9 Q. At that point in your investigation, was the individual 10 depicted in the Coinbase photos a target of your investigation? 11 A. Yes, he was. 12 Q. So on that day, what, if anything, did you see that 13 individual do? 14 A. 15 He proceeded to walk eastbound on Eighth Street from Broadway, 16 across Broadway on Eighth towards Lafayette, and he got into 17 the front passenger seat of the white Jeep Grand Cherokee that 18 I had noted as we walked by it. 19 Q. 20 that individual got into the front passenger seat of that white 21 Jeep Grand Cherokee? 22 A. 23 lights came on. 24 one other person in the car. 25 wheel. So we -- after observing the individual, we watched him. How, if at all, was it relevant to your investigation that Well, so for a couple of reasons. After he did, the brake So immediately I recognize there's at least Somebody has to be behind the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 20 of 256 269 Just also, you know, just sort of mental processing, 2 it doesn't strike me as maybe like an Uber or a Lyft or a taxi, 3 because he's getting into the front seat. 4 initial reaction is, hey, this is another potential lead. 5 car may be important. 6 important. 7 So, you know, my The The second person in the car may be You know, we don't know what's going on completely 8 yet, and investigations, you know, at this stage, or early on, 9 they're kind of like a funnel, right. 10 top layer, it's wide. 11 of information we possibly can, and then filter that to what's 12 important. 13 So at the beginning, the Every -- we're out to collect every bit And so at this stage, we're still looking for all of 14 the information, any lead. Any possible event that might take 15 us further is what we were after. 16 reaction, and that's a standard move in investigations. 17 it became important to us. 18 Q. 19 and the brake lights come on, what happened next? 20 A. 21 we kind of came up with a quick plan. 22 down the license plate number. 23 towards it and past it with the hopes of getting a look at the 24 driver. 25 Q. So that was my initial And so After you observed the individual get in the passenger seat So because we were on foot, it was just my partner and I, I was going to write My partner was going to walk On that day, did you observe the driver of the Jeep Grand SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 21 of 256 270 1 Cherokee? 2 A. I did not. 3 Q. What additional investigative steps, if any, did you take 4 with respect to that white Jeep Grand Cherokee? 5 A. 6 car, which was down around Fourth Street. 7 opened up my laptop and I was able to check the registration 8 information through the Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles. 9 Q. What, if anything, did you learn about that Jeep? 10 A. I learned it was an Avis rental car. 11 Q. Did there come a time you requested records relating to a 12 white Jeep Grand Cherokee from Avis? 13 A. I did. 14 Q. Did you receive records in response? 15 A. I did. 16 Q. What, if anything, did you learn from those records about 17 that white Jeep Grand Cherokee relevant to your investigation? 18 A. 19 I think or a week. 20 recorded by Avis or Avis Budget Group included the renter's 21 information, including a driver's license number. So after I write down the license plate, I ran down to my And once there, I The rental car was overdue for return by a period of weeks 22 The -- part of the records that was So given this was an identity fraud case, I ran that 23 license number through -- I believe it was a Pennsylvania 24 license. 25 Vehicles system and found out it was a fake license. I ran that through the Pennsylvania Department Motor SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 22 of 256 271 So after that, I researched the real individual 2 through -- who happened to be from Pennsylvania as well, found 3 his real license, his real license photo, and, you know, 4 identified him as another potential identity theft victim or 5 likely identity theft victim. 6 Q. 7 number listed in those records and determined it was a fake 8 license, what do you mean by that? 9 license based on running that information? 10 A. 11 Pennsylvania. 12 licenses, if you put in a number, even if it's an old license 13 that's expired, it will come up. 14 it. 15 And just to clarify, when you say you ran the license What do you mean by fake So just not real, not issued from the Commonwealth of The DMV websites, we all, for all of our IDs, They will show a record of If they don't have it on file at all, it means it was 16 never issued. It's not legitimate from -- you know, from that 17 Department of Motor Vehicles. 18 it's not what it purports to be. 19 Q. 20 you believe to be another potential victim of identity theft, 21 who are you referring to there? 22 A. Mr. Gerald Brown. 23 Q. And was that the named renter of the white Jeep Grand 24 Cherokee in the Avis records? 25 A. So, you know, whatever it is, When you say that you identified the true individual who It was. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 23 of 256 272 Ms. Loftus, if you could please publish 2 again what's in evidence as Government Exhibit 501. 3 Q. 4 location in St. Albans that you identified through various 5 methods, including the use of the cell site simulator. 6 mentioned a vehicle from your St. Albans surveillance at this 7 approximate location became relevant to your investigation. 8 Around when was that? 9 A. Around September 20, 2021. 10 Q. Now, turning your attention to that week of September 20, 11 2021, did you take any investigative steps that week? 12 A. Special Agent Lidsky, this is, again, the approximate And you Yes, we did. 13 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take that 14 down. 15 Q. Focusing on September 20, 2021, what happened that day? 16 A. So I had brought in a number of additional agents from some 17 of my offices around the country, and the goal that week was to 18 intensify our physical surveillance, try to get in a position 19 where we could observe some of the activity going on with debit 20 cards or financial transactions associated with the stolen 21 money or the fraudulently obtained money using the tools we 22 had, the tracking of the phone, the GPS ping, so that we, you 23 know, use that, put ourselves in a position and try to observe 24 something. 25 We did it on September 8. My partner and I, we were SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 24 of 256 1 able to see the person we were looking for from the Coinbase 2 photos. 3 were in maybe a better position to follow this car that we've 4 now identified or expanded it beyond just writing down a 5 license number. 6 Q. And on September 20, 2021, where were you? 7 A. So we arrived -- we had traveled up from Washington, D.C. 8 in the morning, around midday. 9 afternoon. 10 from out of town. 11 had never been in the New York subway. 273 So we wanted to repeat that with more people so we So it was later in the So my surveillance team members, most of them were They weren't familiar with the area. Some 12 So I took them all up to the area -- we traveled up 13 from downtown, went in subway and came up from Eighth Street. 14 My goal was to show everybody where we had observed the car, 15 where we had observed the target of our investigation, explain 16 to them -- you know, show them the area we would be working in 17 that week. 18 And so as we're on Eighth Street and I'm explaining 19 all of it to them, and this is where we saw the car, and this 20 is the direction from which we saw the individual walking, I 21 observed a black Mitsubishi Outlander parked on the curb on 22 Eight Street, just west of Broadway a few -- you know, sort of 23 the mid block, sort of double parked or on the side of the 24 road. 25 Q. And once you observed that Mitsubishi, what investigative SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 25 of 256 274 1 steps did you take, if any? 2 A. 3 and I saw the ping was close to our area. 4 intended to actually be surveillance, I was merely trying to 5 give my out-of-town team members a bit of area familiarization. 6 And so I had not intended to, you know, conduct So I checked my phone for the late tested T-Mobile ping, And this wasn't 7 surveillance. 8 there were like seven of us. 9 appropriately. 10 a vehicle. 11 probably look like cops, and I don't want to be spotted when 12 I'm conducting surveillance. 13 So my plan quickly was, okay, let's -- you know, We were not dressed We didn't have communications. We didn't have And by not dressed appropriately, I mean we So I quickly said, okay, we're going to exit back into 14 the subway. 15 to cross Broadway and kind of do a right little button hook 16 down the steps into the subway. 17 We're going to go across the street. We're going In doing so, it allowed me to get close enough to see 18 the license plate of the vehicle and confirm that it was the 19 same Mitsubishi Outlander that I had observed on Dunlop Avenue 20 the very early morning of September 8. 21 Q. 22 referring to the area of St. Albans that we've been discussing? 23 A. 24 25 And to be clear, when you refer to the Dunlop area, are you That's correct. The black Mitsubishi was parked in the driveway of 18326 Dunlop Avenue, in St. Albans and Queens, New York. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 26 of 256 275 1 Q. 2 the Mitsubishi on your way to the subway, were you able to look 3 into the Mitsubishi? 4 A. 5 surveillance, there's always a chance if I can see them, they 6 can see me. 7 And focusing again on September 20, 2021, when you passed Again, not trying to -- you know, when I see somebody on And I'm pretty conservative. In this investigation especially, I'm chasing ghosts. 8 I have very limited opportunities to follow these, you know, 9 tenuous tracks at best, you know, this phone, following the 10 money, the debit card, things like that. 11 anything. So I don't risk 12 So I kind of -- you know, with a hat on probably or 13 with my hat down low I could maybe do glancing observation, 14 just to see what I can. 15 plate of course, and I did get a chance to scan into the 16 vehicle just briefly. 17 passenger seat, front passenger seat of the car. 18 Q. 19 determine the identity of the individual in the front passenger 20 seat of that Mitsubishi? 21 A. I was not. 22 Q. Were you able to determine anyone in the front driver's 23 seat of that car? 24 A. 25 It's possible there was. I focused on confirming the license And I do recall seeing just a man in the Based on your observation that day, were you able to Just an adult white male. I don't recall seeing anyone in the front driver's seat. Again, with my quick view, with my SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 27 of 256 276 1 focus on the license plate, you know, everything else was kind 2 of a bonus I could see, so I don't recall seeing anybody in the 3 driver's seat. 4 Q. 5 I want to focus now on September 22, 2021. What happened that day that was relevant to your 6 investigation? 7 A. 8 with the electronic surveillance, with the goal to hopefully 9 observe something relevant. 10 MS. MURRAY: So we were again conducting physical surveillance, combined Ms. Loftus, can you please publish what's 11 in evidence as Government Exhibit 500. 12 Q. 13 Exhibit 500? 14 A. 15 or cafe on Fourth and Lafayette here in lower Manhattan. 16 Q. 17 investigation? 18 A. 19 were analyzing lots of records in addition to all of this 20 surveillance activity. 21 that received the fraudulently obtained PPP loan, the 22 transaction records showed a number of transactions at this 23 establishment, sometimes multiple times per week, almost daily. 24 But almost weekly we saw transactions at this coffee shop. 25 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, what is reflected in Government This is a street view photograph of La Colombe Coffee Shop How, if at all, was this location relevant to your So we had -- through the course of our investigation, we The financial records from the account Let's take a took at some of those transactions. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 28 of 256 Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 2 Government Exhibit 102, which is in evidence. 3 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, what is this? 4 A. This is an account information sheet provided by Capital 5 One. 6 Q. What is the name of the account holder? 7 A. Jonathan A. Herttua and BRS Consulting Corp. 8 Q. And is this the account that received the BRS Consulting 9 Corp PPP funds? 10 A. It is. 11 Q. Can you read the last four digits of the debit card 12 associated with this account? 13 A. 14 277 5953. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please turn to page 15 50. This is an account statement for that account for the 16 period of May 1st, 2021, to May 28, 2021. 17 please zoom in on the transactions on May 19th. 18 Q. 19 reported in this account on May 19? 20 A. A deposit of $531,218. 21 Q. What was the source of that deposit? 22 A. SBA PPP loan. 23 Q. In the name of what entity or person? 24 A. BRS Consulting Corp. 25 Q. And then looking at the next entry in this account And if we could There are two. Special Agent Lidsky, can you please read the transactions SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 29 of 256 1 statement, what does that reflect? 2 A. That reflects a withdrawal of $25,000 to Coinbase. 3 Q. And in what name? 4 A. Jonathan Herttua. 5 MS. MURRAY: 6 Q. 7 of 2021. Ms. Loftus, please turn to page 62. This is an account statement for the same account for July 8 Do you see any purchases on this account statement 9 that you were aware of from your investigation? 10 A. I do. 11 MS. MURRAY: And, Ms. Loftus, if we could please zoom 12 in on the top half or so of this account statement. 13 Q. 14 that? 15 A. 16 York. Looking at the first entry on July 23, can you please read Debit card purchase at La Colombe, NoHo, New York, New 17 MS. MURRAY: And, Ms. Loftus, if you could zoom out 18 and then zoom in on the bottom portion of this account 19 statement, please. 20 Q. 21 7-30, what does that transaction reflect? 22 A. 23 Herttua. The second to last entry here on -- the first entry on A deposit from Coinbase I think in the name of Jonathan 24 25 278 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take that down. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 30 of 256 279 1 Q. So turning again to September 22, 2021, did you conduct 2 physical surveillance of La Colombe Coffee Shop on that day? 3 A. I did. 4 Q. Why did you conduct surveillance at that location? 5 A. So, again, based on our analysis of the material that we 6 had, you know, the September -- started in July, so we had 7 roughly a month and a half, two months' of data, and if I see 8 weekly if not multi times during the week transactions at La 9 Colombe on Fourth and Lafayette -- you know, people are 10 creatures of habit, right, so I figure if I have a week of 11 surveillance and I focus on this coffee shop, odds are in my 12 favor that I'll get lucky and one of these days the person 13 holding this debit card and making these transactions will come 14 up into the coffee shop. 15 Q. 16 physical surveillance with electronic surveillance of the 0642 17 phone? 18 A. 19 investigation. 20 Q. 21 identify anything relevant to your investigation during your 22 surveillance? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What was that? 25 A. So, again, with the benefit of knowing the times the person And, at this point, were you continuing to combine your We were. Electronic surveillance ran throughout the On September 22, did there come a time you were able to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 31 of 256 280 1 comes in, we can see when the phone leaves the house, so we do 2 have a leg up. 3 coffee shops for 12 hours a day just hoping to get lucky. It's, you know, not like we are sitting in 4 So knowing the time frame, looking at the history and 5 the pattern, we set up surveillance inside the coffee shop and 6 around the coffee shop on the morning of September 22, and we 7 let things sort of play out. 8 MS. MURRAY: 9 Your Honor, at this time the government would like to offer two stipulations between the parties. 10 THE COURT: Go ahead. 11 MS. MURRAY: The first is marked for identification as 12 Government Exhibit 7. 13 agreed by and between the United States of America by Damian 14 Williams, United States Attorney for the Southern District of 15 New York, Juliana N. Murray and David R. Felton, Assistant 16 United States Attorneys, and Adedayo Ilori by his attorney, 17 Peter Brill, that on or about March 4, 2020, Adedayo Ilori was 18 arrested and was charged in the Southern District of New York 19 with conspiracy to commit wire fraud, wire fraud, aggravated 20 identity theft, and conspiracy to commit money laundering, the, 21 quote, 2020 case. It reads: It is hereby stipulated and 22 The charges in the 2020 case involved Adedayo Ilori's 23 participation in a scheme to submit fraudulent applications to 24 obtain bank loans. 25 identities of companies and individuals, and involved falsified These applications used the stolen SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 32 of 256 financial statements. 2 On or about April 8, 2021, Adedayo Ilori pleaded 3 guilty in a 2020 case, and during a plea of guilty to the 4 charge of conspiring to commit wire fraud. 5 government offers Government Exhibit 7 into evidence. 6 7 THE COURT: All right. Your Honor, the It will be received in evidence. 8 (Government Exhibit 7 received in evidence) 9 So remember, ladies and gentlemen, I told you that a 10 stipulation between the parties is evidence, and the facts to 11 which they have stipulated are agreed by the parties to be 12 true. 13 14 MS. MURRAY: And, your Honor, I'd like to offer an additional stipulation at this time. 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 MS. MURRAY: This is marked for identification 17 Government Exhibit 8. 18 281 Thank you. It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and between the 19 United States of America, by Damian Williams, United States 20 Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Juliana N. 21 Murray and David R. Felton, Assistant United States Attorneys, 22 Adedayo Ilori, by his attorney Peter Brill, that if called as a 23 witness, a custodian of records at the office of the Clerk of 24 Court for the United States District Court for the Southern 25 District of New York, the, quote, Clerk's Office would state as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 33 of 256 1 follows: 2 keeping practices of the clerk's office, which is located in 3 Manhattan. 4 an appearance bond issued in case United States v. Adedayo 5 Ilori, 20 MAG 2482 on or about March 6, 2020, the, quote, 6 appearance bond. 7 setting conditions of release and advice of penalties and 8 sanctions is signed by Adedayo Ilori, the defendant. 9 282 The custodian of records is familiar with the record Government Exhibit 70 is a true and correct copy of The appearance bond, which includes an order It is further stipulated and agreed that between in or 10 about March, 2020, and in or about October, 2021, Adedayo 11 Ilori, the defendant, was released under conditions of bail 12 imposed pursuant to Title 18, United States Code chapter 207. 13 It is further stipulated and agreed that this stipulation, 14 which is marked as Government Exhibit 8, and Government Exhibit 15 70 may be received into evidence as government exhibits at 16 trial. 17 18 Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibits 8 and 70. 19 THE COURT: Mr. Brill? Nothing? 20 MR. BRILL: No, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: All right. So the stipulation will be 22 received, as will Exhibit Number 70, which the parties have 23 stipulated is admissible. 24 (Government Exhibit 70 received in evidence) 25 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 Government Exhibit 70. 2 Q. 3 just talking about. Page 34 of 256 283 Special Agent Lidsky, this is an appearance bond that I was 4 Can you read for us who is listed on this appearance 5 bond as the defendant? 6 A. Adedayo Ilori. 7 MS. MURRAY: And if we could zoom in on the second 8 page beginning with the portion "I the defendant" through to 9 that signature. 10 Q. Do you see a signature on this page, Special Agent Lidsky? 11 A. I do. 12 Q. What is the name that is indicated under the signature? 13 A. Adedayo Ilori. 14 Q. And on what date was this bond signed? 15 A. March 6, 2020. 16 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take that 17 down. 18 Q. 19 electronic and physical surveillance at the La Colombe 20 location, what, if anything, did you observe relating to that 21 location that was relevant to your investigation? 22 A. 23 from St. Albans towards lower Manhattan, and, again, with the 24 15-minute increments, you know, a vehicle in good condition at 25 least can travel pretty far in 15 minutes. Returning to September 22, 2021, when you were conducting So the -- the T-Mobile ping of the phone had been tracking So I think the last SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 35 of 256 284 1 thing we had was on or about one of the bridges here in Lower 2 Manhattan. 3 Williamsburg, but it appeared the phone was heading into Lower 4 Manhattan. 5 I don't recall if it was the Manhattan Bridge or So I advised the team that was the latest ping. It 6 could probably get to where we were around La Colombe before 7 the next ping came in, so, you know, now would be a good time 8 to pay attention, take your last restroom break, and get your 9 eyes up on what we're looking for. 10 Q. 11 surveillance when you observed any individual relevant to your 12 investigation as a target or person of interest? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Can you describe what happened? 15 A. So at -- because we had seen the black Mitsubishi, we knew 16 -- obviously we knew the license plate number, because that had 17 given us a -- we had a residence in part because of the cell 18 site simulator, and now even further reduced because we had 19 another vehicle of interest, so we had -- we -- you know, we 20 sort of knew what we were looking for at this point. And did there come a time on that day during your 21 At about the time I think a ping came in that showed 22 it right around the coffee shop. My surveillance material 23 member from inside advised there is a black Mitsubishi at the 24 light. 25 individual now walking towards La Colombe and entering the It's now parking on Lafayette, and there's an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 36 of 256 285 1 store. 2 Q. 3 Colombe location in furtherance of your investigative systems? 4 A. 5 black Mitsubishi Outlander make a purchase and leave. Did there come a time you collected records from that La Yes. 6 Immediately after we observed the occupant of the MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you publish what is in 7 evidence as Government Exhibit 291 and turn to page 7. 8 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, do you recognize this? 9 A. I do. 10 Q. What is it? 11 A. This is a payment receipt or a summary of a purchase from 12 the La Colombe Coffee Shop or cafe at Fourth and Lafayette. 13 Q. 14 reflected in this receipt, was that the approximate date and 15 time of your surveillance on that day, September 22, 2021? 16 A. Yes, it was. 17 Q. What is the name of the person on the bank card that was 18 used for this transaction? 19 A. Jonathan Herttua. 20 Q. And what are the last four digits of the card that was used 21 for this transaction? 22 A. 5953. 23 Q. During your investigation, did there come a time you 24 identified the bank account associated with this card? 25 A. And looking at the date and time of the transaction Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 37 of 256 1 Q. 2 one that received the PPP loan funds for BRS Consulting Corp? 3 A. And is that the bank account we've already discussed, the It is. 4 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if you could publish 5 Government Exhibit 102 that's in evidence. 6 Q. 7 number? 8 A. The whole thing or the last four? 9 Q. The last four. 10 A. 5953. 11 Q. Thank you. Again, Special Agent Lidsky, can you read the debit card Thank you. 12 MS. MURRAY: 13 If we could please publish Government Exhibit 292, Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. 14 which is also in evidence. 15 Q. 16 This reflects certain transactions -- 17 286 Special Agent Lidsky, this is another La Colombe record. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if you could go to page 3. 18 Q. In the last column on this page do you see the last four 19 digits of a card reflected? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. What are those digits? 22 A. 5953. 23 Q. Is this the same card we've been discussing associated with 24 the BRS Consulting Chase account? 25 A. It is. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 38 of 256 Ms. Loftus, if we could please go to the 2 first page again, please. 3 Q. 4 particular card, what was the approximate date range of those 5 transactions reflected in that regard? 6 A. From on or about May 21, 2021, to 9-22-2021. 7 Q. And just looking at the top three, what concentration is 8 that of transactions or visits to La Colombe during that time 9 period? 10 A. 11 For the transactions made at La Colombe using that During that week, it was every day at that point. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, please publish Government 12 298, which is in evidence. 13 Colombe records. 14 287 This is a video clip from La (Video played) 15 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, looking at this video clip, do you 16 see anyone depicted in this video who was or became relevant to 17 your investigation? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. Who is that? 20 A. Adedayo Ilori. 21 Q. And where is he at present in this clip? 22 A. He's second in line near the register, with the associate 23 wearing a yellow head scarf or bandanna, something. 24 Q. 25 watching this clip progress? And can you describe what he appears to be doing as we're SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 39 of 256 Now he's just waiting, kind of looking around. 288 1 A. He's looked 2 outside a couple of times. 3 Q. And now he's approaching the cash register, correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. Can you describe what appears to be in his hand and what he 6 appears to be doing? 7 A. 8 customer facing piece, and now it looks like he's just inserted 9 a card into a payment machine. 10 Q. He is at the cash register right now. His right hand is just waiting by the register or the And now he's just removed it. Thank you. 11 MS. MURRAY: 12 Ms. Loftus, can you please publish what is in evidence 13 Ms. Loftus, we can take that down. as Government Exhibit 570. 14 This is the map of location data for the 0426 phone. 15 Q. 16 had identified specific special high frequently areas for the 17 location data of the 0426 phone. 18 that is depicted near the top left of the map. 19 annotation that says, MomaPS1. 20 When we looked at this yesterday, Special Agent Lidsky, you I want to focus on the area It's near an Do you see that? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. Can you circle that area, pleas, for the jury so we can all 23 focus on the right area of the map. 24 25 During your investigation, did you conduct any investigation in this area that is depicted in this map and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 40 of 256 289 1 appears to be a high frequency area for the 0426 phone? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. What area of New York is reflected in that portion of the 4 map? 5 A. Long Island City. 6 Q. Aside from the 0642 ping location, what additional 7 evidence, if any, did you identify during your investigation 8 that pointed you to Long Island City? 9 A. 10 meters in this area, and also we had learned of an IP address 11 as well that brought us in this area. 12 Q. What is an IP address? 13 A. IP stands for internet protocol address, and that is a 14 unique address, at least for a time, that's assigned to every 15 device connected to the internet. 16 our computers, anything that connects to the internet at the 17 instant it connects gets a unique IP assigned for -- you know, 18 for whatever you want to do on the internet. 19 Q. 20 investigation that contained an IP address that appeared to 21 relate to your investigation? 22 A. 23 money flowed laterally, as I talked about yesterday, and went 24 to different accounts or investment places, a lot of those, 25 especially the online institutions, capture the IP address of There were a number of debit card transactions for parking So all of our phones, all of What records, if anything, did you identify during your So, as we were obtaining various financial records, as the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 41 of 256 1 users when they engage in part to prevent fraud and track 2 various things. 3 or more accounts. 4 290 So we did see this IP address pop up with one MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please take this 5 down and now publish Government Exhibit 351, which is in 6 evidence. 7 This is a Robinhood record. 8 portion, please, the very bottom portion -- 9 Q. What is the name of the customer on this Robinhood account? 10 A. Jonathan Herttua. 11 Q. And what phone number was provided for Jonathan Herttua? 12 A. 646-575-0642. 13 MS. MURRAY: Zooming in on the bottom Ms. Loftus, if we could now please 14 publish Exhibit 354(a), which is data from the Robinhood 15 records that are in evidence as Government Exhibit 354. 16 reflects data that has been filtered by a certain client IP 17 address. 18 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, can you read the IP reflected? 19 A. 67.245.59.23. 20 Q. Can you read the city name associated with that address? 21 A. Queens. 22 Q. What is the time stamp and the date range of these IP 23 connections as reflected in the Robinhood records? 24 A. June 12, 2021, between 22:55, or 10:55 p.m., and 10:56 p.m. 25 Q. And based on your review of the Robinhood records, are you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 This Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 42 of 256 291 1 aware whether those time stamps are in Eastern Time or a 2 different time zone? 3 A. I believe UTC time. 4 Q. Can you describe what that is? 5 A. Universal coordinated time is sort of like Greenwich Mean 6 Time or Zulu Time in the military, just what the world I guess 7 has adopted from the same zone to which we all adjust to or 8 from. 9 or four, five hours behind depending on if we've fallen back or 10 sprung ahead. Here in the west coast we're either four hours behind it 11 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, 344-B, which again is 12 additional date from Robinhood records in evidence as 13 Government Exhibit 354 that has been filtered for the same IP 14 address. 15 Q. 16 reflected for these IP connections to the Robinhood account 17 from the IP address? 18 A. These run from June 26 to June 29, 2021. 19 Q. Did you observe additional connections to that 76 -- 20 67.245.59.23 IP address in the Robinhood account beyond those 21 that we've reviewed? 22 A. 23 Special Agent Lidsky, what are the date and time ranges I believe we may have. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 24 Government Exhibit 241, which is in evidence. 25 Charter Communications record. This is a If we could Zoom in on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 43 of 256 292 1 content. Thank you. 2 Q. 3 address listed as the target for the records request here? 4 A. 67.245.59.23. 5 Q. Who is the listed subscriber for that IP address? 6 A. Mark Heffron. 7 Q. And what is the service address? 8 A. 4441 Purves, or Purves Street, apartment 1805, Long Island 9 City, New York 11101. 10 Q. And the user name? 11 A. MarkHeffron92@gmail.com. 12 Q. Looking down at the method of payment -- Focusing on the top, Special Agent Lidsky, what is the IP 13 MS. MURRAY: And, Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in on 14 this portion. Ms. Loftus, through to the end of the document. 15 Q. 16 listed. 17 listed here for this particular IP account or IP address? 18 A. 19 credit card, with the last four numbers of 5953. 20 Q. 21 the third line from the bottom -- bottom, do you see this 22 target IP address we've been discussing? 23 A. I do. 24 Q. What was the date range that this IP address was subscribed 25 to this particular subscriber? Focusing on the method of payment, there are three items Can you identify for us the second method of payment It's listed as CC, which I assume is an abbreviation for And then looking at the other detail section IP history, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 A. 2 know if that's eastern coast or UTC. 3 2021, at 12:05. Page 44 of 256 It was first assigned on May 7, 2021, at 2:22 a.m. 4 MS. MURRAY: I don't And it ended on July 27, Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take that 5 down. 6 Q. 7 a time where you identified 4441 Purves Street as a potential 8 area of interest in your investigation? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. When was that? 11 A. Starting the same week of the surveillance, September 22. 12 Q. Did there come a time when you requested records relating 13 to that location and specifically to apartment 1805, which we 14 just saw on that IP subscriber record? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What kind of records did you suggest relating to that 17 apartment? 18 A. 19 documents, payment information, background records, anything, 20 anything they had related to the lease of that apartment. 21 293 Special Agent Lidsky, aside from IP records, did there come All the records associated with the lease, to include lease MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 22 Government Exhibit 301, which is in evidence. 23 zoom in on the top portion, please. 24 landlord records. 25 Q. And if we could These are tenant and Special Agent Lidsky, what is the date of this lease? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 45 of 256 1 A. April 28, 2021. 2 Q. And looking down at the address, and then further below 3 that apartment and use -- 4 MS. MURRAY: The next address, please, Ms. Loftus. 5 Thank you. 6 Q. 7 lease relate to? 8 A. 9 1805. 10 Q. Who is listed as the purported tenant of that apartment? 11 A. Mark S. Heffron. 12 And then the apartment below that, what location does this 4441 Purves Street, Long Island City, New York, apartment MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please turn to 13 page 40 and focus on the larger block of text, please. 14 Q. 15 to be Mark Heffron authorized to occupy the apartment 1805 16 under this lease? 17 A. 18 294 Special Agent Lidsky, what date was the person purporting May 1st, 2021. MS. MURRAY: And, Ms. Loftus, if you could please turn 19 to the next page and zoom in on the driver's license that we 20 see in this photograph. 21 Q. 22 this New York driver's license which was in the tenant records 23 for 1805? 24 A. Mark S. Heffron. 25 Q. At this time in the investigations, what did you think Special Agent Lidsky, what is the name of the person on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 46 of 256 295 1 about this individual depicted in this driver's license scan or 2 photo was, in fact, Mark Heffron? 3 A. I was highly suspect that this was Mark S. Heffron. 4 Q. Why is that? 5 A. Because this is the same individual I had seen as Jonathan 6 Herttua at Coinbase, so I assumed and was later confirmed that 7 this was not Mark S. Heffron. 8 Q. 9 the identity information reflected on this purported New York 10 state driver's license? 11 A. 12 of Motor Vehicles, was not surprised to learn that this was a 13 not valid, not issued license from New York. 14 the real Mark S. Heffron, pulled up his DMV photo, and 15 confirmed yet another identity theft victim. What investigative steps did you take, if any, regarding So I ran this ID no. 492330086 through New York Department 16 MS. MURRAY: Then I located Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. 17 Thank you. 18 Q. 19 Street building? 20 A. I did. 21 Q. Did you request video surveillance for any dates or times 22 in particular? 23 A. 24 and it's large for volume on a disc, so we try to narrow it 25 down as best as possible. Did you also obtain video surveillance from the 4441 Purves Yes. But also, as much -- pulling video can be a bit much, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 47 of 256 296 So we did try to coordinate through certain dates, 2 events, things like that, and only request the video so we can 3 be least intrusive on the management there by filtering it to 4 pertinent dates and times. 5 Q. 6 pertinent dates or times? 7 A. 8 in the area, based on some event-driven data. 9 10 Now, if at all, did you identify what could have been Based on surveillance activity, based on the phone pinging MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government would like to offer at this time a stipulation between the parties. 11 THE COURT: You may proceed. 12 MS. MURRAY: This is marked for identification as 13 Government Exhibit 4. 14 and between the United States of America by Damian Williams, 15 United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, 16 Juliana N. Murray and David R. Felton, Assistant United States 17 Attorneys, and Adedayo Ilori, by his attorney, Peter Brill, 18 that, if called as a witness, a custodian of records at 19 ManageGo, LLC, ManageGo, would state as follows: 20 It is hereby stipulated and agreed by The custodian of records is familiar with the record 21 keeping practices of ManageGo, which is a software platform for 22 property managers that integrates services, including payments, 23 maintenance, concierge services, leasing and rental screening 24 and security. 25 Government Exhibit 304 through 328 consists of true SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 48 of 256 297 1 and correct copies of surveillance video taken in a hallway on 2 the 18th floor of a rental property located at Halo LIC, 4441 3 Purves Street, Long Island City, 11101. 4 was recorded and coordinated universal time, UTC, which was 5 four hours ahead of Eastern Daylight Time, EDT, which was the 6 local time zone in New York City from March 14, 2021, at 2:00 7 a.m. EDT to November 7, 2021, at 2:00 a.m. EDT. 8 The surveillance video Accordingly, the surveillance video was taken on the 9 following dates and times. 10 government exhibit and the corresponding date and time range of 11 that video surveillance. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I'm now going to read in the Government Exhibit 304, Friday, May 7, 2021, 3:45:04 p.m. to 3:46:20 p.m. Government Exhibit 305, Friday, May 7, 2021, 5:01:57 p.m. to 5:05:42 p.m. Government Exhibit 306, Saturday, June 26, 2021, 5:41:00 p.m. to 5:41:35 p.m. And for the court reporter, these are all Eastern Daylight Time. Government Exhibit 307, Saturday, June 26, 2021, 5:58:48 p.m. to 6:00:05 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 308, Saturday, June 26, 2021, from 6:22:50 p.m. to 6:23:17 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 309, Saturday, June 26, 2021, from 7:48:23 p.m. to 7:48:35 p.m. EDT. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 49 of 256 298 Government Exhibit 310, Saturday, June 26, 2021, from 9:43:35 p.m. to 9:50:46 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 311, Wednesday, July 7, 2021, from 3:33:18 p.m. to 3:33:49 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 312, Wednesday, July 7, 2021, from 5:00:35 p.m. to 5:00:53 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 313, Wednesday, July 7, 2021, 5:26:57 p.m. to 5:2810 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 314, Wednesday, July 7, 2021, from 5:44:32 p.m. to 5:45:01 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 315, Wednesday, July 7, 2021, from 8:22:32 p.m. to 8:22:50 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 316, Wednesday, July 14, 2021, from 6:23:35 p.m. to 6:24:06 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 317, Wednesday, July 14, 2021, from 6:30:14 p.m. to 6:31:01 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 318, Wednesday July 14, 2021, from 6:42:37 p.m. to 6:42:48 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 319, Wednesday, July 14, 2021, from 7:22:52 p.m. to 7:23:25 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 320, Wednesday, July 14, 2021, from 9:10:30 p.m. to 9:11:01 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 321, Wednesday, July 21st, 2021, from 3:30:45 p.m. to 3:35:33 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 322, Wednesday July 21st, 2021, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 6:19:25 p.m. to 6:19:49 p.m. EDT. Government Exhibit 324, Wednesday, July 21, 2021, from 7:19:47 p.m. to 7:20:12 p.m. EDT. 6 7 Government Exhibit 325, Wednesday, July 21, 2021, from 9:10:02 p.m. to 9:10:28 p.m. EDT. 8 9 Government Exhibit 326, Wednesday, August 11, 2021, from 8:36:14 p.m. to 8:37:09 p.m. EDT. 10 11 Government Exhibit 327, Wednesday, September 15, 2021, from 7:11:20 p.m. to 7:11:37 p.m. EDT. 12 13 And Government Exhibit 328, Thursday, September 23rd, 2021, from 7:46:34 p.m. to 7:46:59 p.m. EDT. 14 Your Honor, the government offers this stipulation, 15 Government Exhibit 4, into evidence. 16 referenced have already been admitted. 17 The underlying records THE COURT: All right. 19 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 20 THE COURT: All right. 21 I assume no objection, Mr. Brill? 22 MR. BRILL: 23 (Government Exhibit 4 received in evidence) 18 299 Government Exhibit 323, Wednesday, July 21, 2021, from 4 5 Page 50 of 256 from 3:51:14 p.m. to 3:51:45 p.m. EDT. 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT May I please see the first page? 24 Q. 25 surveillance. It will be received. No objection. All right, Special Agent Lidsky, let's look at some of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 51 of 256 Ms. Loftus, can up play Government 2 Exhibit 324, which the parties have agreed was taken on the 3 18th floor of the 4441 Purves Street building between 4 approximately 7:19 and 7:20 p.m. on July 21, 2021. 5 note that the time stamp of the parties' stipulation is 6 accurate. 7 time zone. 8 Q. 9 again for you. 10 A. 11 apartment. And I would The UTC time stamp on the video was off for that Who do we see in this video, Mr. Lidsky? And we'll play it We see Mr. Ilori coming down the hall and entering into an 12 MS. MURRAY: If you could please play it again, 13 Ms. Loftus. 14 Q. 15 angle? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And this is at approximately 7:19 to 7:20 p.m. on 18 July 21st. 19 A. 20 apartment. 21 300 So is that toward the right, walking toward the camera What does he appear to be doing here? He's carrying a bag and unlocking the door and entering the MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you now please play 22 Government Exhibit 325, which the parties have agreed is from 23 the same camera and on the same day, July 21, 2021. 24 Q. Can you describe what we're seeing in this video. 25 A. I see Mr. Ilori and who I believe to be the second SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 52 of 256 301 1 gentleman from the Coinbase photo and the ID photos leaving the 2 same apartment. 3 MS. MURRAY: If we could play the beginning portion of 4 that again, Ms. Loftus. 5 Q. 6 investigation, standing here today, can you describe who you 7 think to be reflected in this video? 8 A. 9 apartment. Special Agent Lidsky, based on what you know now, in your I think it's Mr. Ilori and Mr. Recamier leaving the 10 11 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take that down. 12 Can you please now publish what is in evidence as 13 Government Exhibit 231. 14 Q. 15 that was selected in the course of the investigation. 16 at the top portion of this Charles Schwab record, what is the 17 name that this letter is addressed to? 18 A. Jonathan Herttua. 19 Q. And the address that this was sent to? 20 A. 64 Bleecker Street, Suite 188, New York, New York. Special Agent Lidsky, this is a record from Charles Schwab 21 MS. MURRAY: 22 the next page. 23 Q. 24 account? 25 A. Looking Ms. Loftus, if you could please turn to What email address is associated with this Charles Schwab Herttuajonathan1957@gmail.com. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 2 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 53 of 256 302 Ms. Loftus, if you could now please publish what's in evidence as Government's 232. 3 This is going to be another of the Charles Schwab 4 records that was provided in the course of the investigation. 5 If we could zoom out just a bit on this document, please. 6 Q. 7 activity on that Charles Schwab account, the account associated 8 with Herttuajonathan1957@gmail.com and Jonathan Herttua. Special Agent Lidsky, this shows certain IP connections for 9 I want to bring your attention -- 10 MS. MURRAY: Seventh row, Ms. Loftus. The IP 11 connection on 7-21-2021. 12 Q. 13 the Charles Schwab Jonathan Herttua -- 14 A. July 21, 2021, at 8:27 p.m. 15 Q. And what was the IP address that was used for that 16 connection to the Charles Schwab account in the name of 17 Jonathan Herttua at 8:27 p.m. on July 21, 2021? 18 A. 67.245.59.23. 19 Q. Thank you. 20 Can you read the date and time for that IP connection for MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can we please next play 21 another of the videos from the surveillance. This is 22 Government Exhibit 309 in evidence, which the parties stipulate 23 is from the same camera and was recorded on the same date, 24 which is June 26, 2021, at approximately 7:48 p.m. 25 Q. Can you describe what we're observing here, Special Agent SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 54 of 256 303 1 Lidsky? 2 A. 3 the door, and now walking down the hallway towards the camera. I see Mr. Ilori and a woman leaving the apartment, locking 4 MS. MURRAY: And, Ms. Loftus, can we please play 5 Government Exhibit 308, another video which the parties 6 stipulated, taken at the same location between approximately 7 6:22 p.m. and 6:23 p.m. on June 26. 8 Q. 9 see here? 10 A. 11 apartment. 12 he has some luggage and she has a yoga mat -- I don't know what 13 that is. 14 Q. 15 p.m. on June 26, 2021, we observe Mr. Ilori and another 16 individual entering the Purves Street apartment, and they leave 17 at approximately 7:48 p.m. that day? 18 A. So this was earlier in the evening. Mr. Lidsky, what do we I see Mr. Ilori and the same female arriving at the He's unlocking the door. They have some luggage or So I took this out of turn, but is it correct around 6:23 Correct. 19 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, pull up Exhibit 344-B. 20 Again, these are certain Robinhood account records. 21 Q. 22 67.245.59.23. 23 Charter Communications records and subscribed to apartment 24 1805. 25 used to connect to the Jonathan Herttua account on that day? This is focused on that same IP address as we said, the That's the IP address that was associated in the Looking at June 26, 2021, what time was this address SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 55 of 256 1 A. In UTC time, at 11:35 or 23:35. 2 Q. And what would that be in Eastern Time for this time of 3 year? 4 A. Four hours earlier, so 7:35. 5 Q. Thank you. 6 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. 7 THE COURT: Ms. Murray, can you find a convenient 8 304 breaking point, please? 9 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 10 and then it's a perfect time. 11 THE COURT: One further question Sure. 12 Q. Aside from the videos we've observed together, was the 13 defendant Adedayo Ilori captured on this surveillance camera at 14 other dates and times? 15 A. Yes, he was. 16 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: All right. We'll take our morning recess 18 now. 19 here at 11:10. 20 not discuss the case while we're on break. 21 It's 11:00. We can break. So if everyone would please plan to be back Please leave your notebook on your seats and do Special Agent Lidsky, I remind you you remain under 22 oath, and please do not discuss your testimony with anyone 23 while we're in recess. 24 A. 25 Of course. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 2 (Jury not present) 3 (Continued on next page) Page 56 of 256 All rise for the jury. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 305 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 306 1 THE COURT: 2 You may step down, sir. 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: AUSA Murray, are you on track? 5 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 6 THE COURT: How much longer do you think you need to 7 go with Special Agent Lidsky? 8 MS. MURRAY: I'm just estimating, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Yes. 10 MS. MURRAY: Under an hour would be my guess, your 12 THE COURT: All right. 13 MS. MURRAY: And the next portion of testimony will 11 Okay. Page 57 of 256 Please be seated. Thank you. Honor. 14 include certain physical exhibits. 15 will ask to approach the witness, and then we also do intend to 16 then retrieve those once he's authenticated them and show them 17 using the ELMO to the jury. 18 THE COURT: 19 Okay. We have marked those. And you have made them available to Mr. Brill and Mr. Ilori? 20 MS. MURRAY: 21 received those items. Yes, and also scans of them, so they have 22 THE COURT: All set, Mr. Brill? 23 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: All right. 25 We minutes then. I'll see everyone in about ten Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 (Recess) 2 THE COURT: 3 Are we ready for the jury? 4 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: All right. 6 Page 58 of 256 307 Please be seated. Ms. Dempsey, you may bring the jurors out. 7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 8 THE COURT: 9 That way we'll be ready to go. 10 THE WITNESS: 11 (Continued on next page) Yes, your Honor. You may take the stand, Agent Lidsky. Yes, your Honor. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: 3 Ms. Murray. All right. Page 59 of 256 Please be seated, everyone. 4 BY MS. MURRAY: 5 Q. 6 in this case. 7 identify the defendant as involved in this scheme and also 8 identified the 4441 Purves Street, apartment 1805, in Long 9 Island City. Special Agent Lidsky, let's turn back to your investigation You've testified about how you were able to 10 I want to focus on early October 2021. 11 anything, happened in early October in this investigation? 12 A. 13 started executing other search warrants. 14 Q. 15 collecting further records from various different companies? 16 A. 17 308 We conducted additional investigative steps. What, if We also Now, did those additional investigative steps include They did. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 18 Government Exhibit 331, which is in evidence. 19 Q. Do you recognize this? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. I'm focusing in on the top portion of this document from 22 the top through -- on both sides to the middle of the document. 23 What car does this relate to? 24 A. A 2021 Mercedes Benz. 25 Q. Looking at this document, are you able to determine when SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 60 of 256 309 the car was leased? 2 You might have to go to date -- excuse me, top, 3 middle. The date. 4 A. Yes, nine -- September 27, 2021. 5 Q. I'm looking at the upper right portion of this document 6 next to the description. 7 Mercedes? 8 A. What is the stated value of this $137,306.68. 9 MS. MURRAY: 10 bottom of this screen, please. 11 "leased to" at the bottom of the government sticker. 12 could zoom in on that, please. 13 Q. Who is this leased to? 14 A. Etudia Software Engineering in the name of Thomas J. 15 Hockenberry. 16 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could scroll to the Of the page, please. There's a If we Ms. Loftus, can you please turn to page 17 44. 18 Q. 19 Mercedes records? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. What's the name of the person on this Pennsylvania driver's 22 license card? 23 A. Thomas J. Hockenberry. 24 Q. And what, if anything, do you notice about the photograph 25 of this individual shown on this Thomas J. Hockenberry driver's Do you see this image, Special Agent Lidsky, from the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 61 of 256 310 1 license? 2 A. 3 know to be at this point in the investigation -- I didn't know 4 -- but Chris Recamier. 5 Q. 6 Mercedes, what, if anything, did you do to investigate the 7 information reflected on this driver's license? 8 A. 9 listed here. 10 Motor Vehicles, learned that it was not valid, not a real 11 license listed by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. 12 researched the real Thomas J. Hockenberry, found him in 13 Pennsylvania. 14 victim of the identity theft. 15 Q. 16 It's the same one I'd seen beginning at Coinbase, who I now At some point after you received these records from So the same checks. I took the driver's license number I ran it through the Pennsylvania Department of Then I Found his photo as well and confirmed another Thank you. MS. MURRAY: We can take this down. 17 Q. Again, focusing on the October period in the investigation, 18 during that time period, did you personally observe the 19 defendant driving any car or cars? 20 A. I did. 21 Q. What car or cars did you observe the defendant driving. 22 A. A white 2021 Mercedes Benz S-580. 23 Q. And based on the record we just looked at, what, if 24 anything, were you able to determine about the white Mercedes 25 you observed the defendant driving was the same white Mercedes SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 62 of 256 311 1 that was leased to Etudia Software, Thomas J. Hockenberry? 2 A. 3 York, I guess this is the standard, but after acquiring a new 4 vehicle, the license plate will continue to come back to the 5 dealership for at least a period of time. 6 this was only about a week, the license plate was still coming 7 back to Silver Star Motors, which lead me to go over there and 8 obtain these records. 9 Q. 10 October 7, 2021. 11 A. 12 Street. 13 Q. Why were you at that particular location at that time? 14 A. At this point I had obtained a search warrant or was 15 anticipating obtaining a search warrant just waiting for the 16 final approval to conduct a search of that -- of the apartment 17 1805. 18 Q. 19 on that search warrant, what, if anything, did you observe that 20 was relevant to your investigation? 21 A. 22 Street, walked down the street, and got into the Mercedes, the 23 white Mercedes. 24 had surveillance members watching it, and we observed him get 25 into it and drive off. It was the same. The license plate of the car -- in New And I guess because I'd like to turn your attention to the evening of Where were you that evening? I was out in Long Island City in the vicinity of Purves And as you were at that location waiting for final approval Mr. Ilori left the Halo apartment building at 4441 Purves Obviously we knew the car, we knew the tag, we SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 63 of 256 1 Q. What area of the white Mercedes did Mr. Ilori get into? 2 A. He got into the driver's seat. 3 occupant, got in and left. 4 Q. 5 fact obtain a search warrant to search apartment 1805 at 4441 6 Purves Street? 7 A. I did around the same time. 8 Q. Did you execute the search warrant? 9 A. I did. 10 Q. And to be clear, when I say execute the search warrant, 11 what does that mean? 12 A. 13 this case was knocking on the door. 14 Q. 15 1805? 16 A. 17 answered the door. 18 Q. 19 Recamier answered the door on that night, what, if anything, 20 did he say to you? 21 A. 22 myself. 23 come in, and I informed him that we had both a search warrant 24 for the apartment and that other -- other events would be 25 transpiring. 312 He was the only one, only Now, did there come a time that evening when you did in It means begin the search, physically take a step, which in So that night, what happened when you arrived at apartment I was greeted by who I now know to be Mr. Recamier, who Sure. Would you like me to go into -- When that individual who you now know to be Chris I simply asked, Mr. Heffron? He said, yes. I had one other agent with me. I identified I asked if we could SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 64 of 256 313 I basically informed him that he would be placed under 2 arrest before the end of the evening, and I gave him enough 3 information to sort of know what this is about. 4 of the other names that I'd now become familiar with. 5 -- you know, so he pretty much knew. 6 Q. 7 asked him to confirm his identity, how did he identify himself? 8 A. 9 stepped in. 10 warrant. 11 some of the other names that I'd come to see, Mr. Hockenberry? 12 I said, listen, here's the thing, you're going to be arrested. 13 You will be brought down and booked. I dropped some And he And just to be clear, when you identified yourself and you Yeah. So I told him, I said, Mr. Heffron, you know, we I said who I was, why I was there, we had a search I said, do you prefer Mr. Herttua? Do you prefer 14 If you're booked as John Doe, generally, you know, 15 until the government knows who you are, even though it's not 16 our call but my experience is that the Court will not release 17 people, and generally we figure out anyway. 18 running fingerprints, we're going to find out who you are. 19 So at that point, you know, I said, if you want to 20 make it a little bit easier on both of us, I'd appreciate if 21 you told me who you really are. 22 just his name, Chris Recamier, date of birth, and Social 23 Security number. 24 Q. 25 encountered the individual who you recognized to be a known Once we start And he agreed and wrote down At the time that you knocked on the door of 1805 and first SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 65 of 256 1 target of your investigation, at that time did you know his 2 true identity? 3 A. I did not. 4 Q. Can you describe what happened next after you entered 5 apartment 1805 and began the search? 6 A. 7 Obviously we checked to make sure there was no other -- no 8 persons in the apartment. 9 living room was devoid of any furniture I think except for a 10 stool and a lamp. 11 or kitchen counter. 12 multi-function printer. 13 stacks, laptops -- I think a couple of laptops, a tablet. Yes. 14 314 So as we came in, I kind of took a look around. It was sparsely furnished. The There was a large computer on kitchen island There was a shredder. There was a There were a number of document Then in the bedroom there's like an air mattress on a 15 frame. 16 Q. 17 what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibits 18 580 through 595. 19 then look up at me when you're finished. 20 Special Agent Lidsky, in the binder before you, you have If you could please take a look at those and Special Agent Lidsky, do you recognize those? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. What are they? 23 A. These are photos that we took both of the apartment and 24 some of the things that we observed during the search, before 25 and during the search. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 66 of 256 1 Q. 2 the appearance of apartment 1805 and/or the contents of 3 apartment 1805 on October 7, 2021? 4 A. Are those photographs fair and accurate representations of They are. 5 6 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibits 580 through 595. 7 MR. BRILL: No objection. 8 THE COURT: They'll be admitted in evidence. 9 (Government's Exhibits 580 through 595 received in 10 evidence) 11 12 315 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish Government Exhibit 581. 13 Is the jury able to see that? 14 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, can you describe what we're looking 15 at here? 16 A. 17 a shredder, the waste basket, and behind that is a 18 multi-function printer/scanner with some documents stacked on 19 top and a couple stacks of documents on the floor. This is the living room area of the apartment, you can see 20 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can we turn to Government 21 Exhibit 592, please? 22 Q. Can you describe what's shown here? 23 A. These are some of the documents on the floor. 24 been laid out by us in our search and photographed in place. 25 stack of the documents, you take a picture of the top, you only SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 They've just A Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 67 of 256 1 see the top, so we tend to spread them out just to show what 2 was there. 3 MS. MURRAY: 316 Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in on the 4 middle document in this set just to see if we can better 5 identify. 6 Q. 7 be numbers on the top left. 8 are those? 9 A. Looking at those two files in the middle, there appear to What type of documents, if any, IRS forms 1120. 10 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can we now turn to Government 11 Exhibit 594? 12 Q. What is shown here? 13 A. Shredded documents. 14 Q. And it appears that the top of this shredder has been taken 15 off the shredder; is that right? 16 A. 17 was anything inside. 18 Q. 19 executed your search? 20 A. 21 Yes. We took the top of the shredder off to see if there And where was this located in apartment 1805 when you In the living room against the wall. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. 22 Thank you. 23 Q. 24 apartment 1805 during your search? 25 A. What other sort of physical items did you recover from We found notebooks. We found a couple of debit cards, an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 68 of 256 1 ID card, multiple phones, as well as tablets, articles of 2 clothing. 3 MS. MURRAY: 317 Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 4 Government Exhibit 588. 5 Q. Can you describe for us what we're looking at here, please? 6 A. This was in -- this is a photograph of the contents of one 7 of the kitchen drawers that we opened. 8 Q. And 580, please, Ms. Loftus. 9 A. This is an Air France luggage tag that was also located in 10 the apartment. What is shown here? 11 MS. MURRAY: 12 luggage tag, please. 13 Q. 14 what does that say, Special Agent Lidsky? 15 A. 16 Chris. 17 18 Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in on that Focusing on the written words that are on this luggage tag, M. Heffron, no. 1805, and then parenthetically the name MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, may I approach the witness with physical evidence? 19 THE COURT: You may. 20 MS. MURRAY: I'll show Mr. Brill first. 21 THE COURT: Please. 22 Q. 23 for identification as Government Exhibit 10, Government Exhibit 24 11, and Government Exhibit 13. 25 Special Agent Lidsky, I'm handing you what's been marked Focusing first on Government Exhibit 10, do you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 69 of 256 318 1 recognize the contents of Government Exhibit 10? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. What is it? 4 A. It's a set of keys and a key fob. 5 Q. And turning to Government Exhibit 11, what does Government 6 Exhibit 11 contain? 7 A. 8 check, and I believe there might be either a business card or a 9 medical ID card in here as well. 10 Q. 11 would facilitate your review. 12 A. 13 Street, maybe an access card, debit card, and another debit 14 card, a New Jersey driver's license, and a check. 15 Q. 16 Exhibit 13? 17 A. 18 we just saw in the photo. 19 Q. 20 11 and 13, from where were those items recovered? 21 A. 22 City. 23 Q. 24 marked for identification Government's Exhibit 550 through 555. 25 These are debit cards and ID, and there's a folded up And you're welcome to take the items out of the bag if that Debit card, debit card, a money card, Halo, 4441 Purves And then Government Exhibit 13, do you recognize Government I do. That's a red notebook that was found in the drawer Focusing on these three exhibits, Government Exhibits 10, All from the apartment, 1805 Purves Street, in New York Special Agent Lidsky, you have in your binder what's been If you could please take a look at those and look up SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 70 of 256 319 at me when you finish reviewing. 2 Thank you. 3 Do you recognize those? 4 A. I do. 5 Q. What are they? 6 A. They are copies of a number of documents that we recovered 7 from -- during our search at apartment 1805. 8 Q. 9 you recovered from -- certain of the items that you recovered 10 from the Purves Street apartment, including Government Exhibits 11 11 and 13? 12 A. 13 Are they a fair and accurate reflection of the items that They are. MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, at this time the government 14 offers Government Exhibits 10, 11 and 13, which are physical 15 evidence, as well as Government Exhibits 550 through 555. 16 MR. BRILL: No objection. 17 THE COURT: They'll be received in evidence. 18 (Government's Exhibits 10, 11, 13, 550 through 555 19 received in evidence) 20 MS. MURRAY: Thank you. 21 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, starting with Government Exhibit 10, 22 that's one of the physical items that you have, can you take 23 that item out of the evidence bag and hold it up to the jury 24 and explain what Government Exhibit 10 is? 25 A. It's a key. I believe the key to the apartment. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 And a key Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 71 of 256 320 1 fob, which I -- I'm not sure exactly what it controls, if it's 2 elevator access or after-hours access through the front door or 3 garage. 4 Apartments. 5 Q. 6 the jury what those items are in Government Exhibit 11? 7 A. 8 debit cards, a money card, a Halo license -- or Halo LIC, 9 excuse me. 10 affiliated with the apartment. 11 check in the name Etudia Software Engineering, and a New Jersey 12 driver's license in the name of Jonathan Herttua. 13 Q. 14 so I can show them to the jury a little bit more closely. 15 Government Exhibit 10 as well, please. 16 But, also, it's from the apartment building, the Halo Turning now to Government Exhibit 11, can you explain to These were the debit cards that I described, a number of Again, I assume it's some sort of an access card Debit card, a check, a blank Special Agent Lidsky, I'd like to come take those from you Thank you. So starting with Government Exhibit 10, this is the 17 keys and key fob that you described. 18 appear to be looking inside the light. Just give me a moment. 19 THE COURT: I think it swivels, doesn't it? 20 MS. MURRAY: Far better. 21 And Thank you, your Honor. I appreciate that. 22 THE COURT: There you go. 23 Q. So Special Agent Lidsky, are you able to see this? 24 A. I am. 25 Q. I'm going to zoom just a bit more. Bear with me. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 It's I Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 72 of 256 hard to see here. 2 And perhaps I'll let you do it, but there appears to 3 be some numbers written on the bottom of this key fob. 4 would be right on the bottom portion near where the keys 5 connect. 6 look at it and read those numbers for the jury, please? 7 8 321 It If I hand this exhibit back to you, can you take a THE COURT: I think the whole arm goes down, too. But it's fine for you to give them back to the witness. 9 MS. MURRAY: Let me see if I can do it, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: It might also be upside down, the key fob. 11 Q. Here. I'm going to hand this back to you for a moment. 12 I'm going to reset that. 13 THE COURT: 14 to try to help, feel free. 15 but when it doesn't -- 16 Q. 17 key fob, Special Agent Lidsky? 18 A. I can, with a degree of challenge. 19 Q. If you could read that, we can try to aid with this 20 technology in a moment. 21 A. I believe it's 16733 or 15733. 22 Q. All right. 23 A. Or 8733. 24 Q. We'll work that out. 25 In the meantime, Mr. Felton, if you want Technology is great when it works, Are you able to see the numbers that are on that particular I think it's a six. I'm going to now attempt to show the jury Government SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 73 of 256 1 Exhibit -- some items from Government Exhibit 11. 2 two of the cards that were recovered from 1805 Purves Street. 3 Focusing, sir, on the card to the left, this is a TD 322 These are 4 Bank debit card. Could you please read to us the name on that 5 card? 6 A. Christopher Buettner. 7 Q. And then on the right what are we looking at there? 8 A. The New Jersey driver's license or fake New Jersey driver's 9 license with the name Jonathan Herttua. 10 Q. 11 Jersey driver's license? 12 A. Chris Recamier. 13 Q. Then I'm going to show you the check that was recovered. 14 Looking at this check, what is the name of the company or 15 individual that this account is associated with? 16 A. Etudia Software Engineering, Inc. 17 Q. Now, focusing on Government Exhibit 13, which is the 18 notebook that was recovered from Purves Street, can you please 19 take that out of the bag and just hold it up for the jury? And whose photo, if any, do you recognize from that New 20 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 21 Government Exhibit 554. 22 Q. 23 drawer. 24 from? 25 A. And, Special Agent Lidsky, you showed us the photo of the Where in the apartment did you recover this notebook I believe it's the kitchen. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 Q. 2 of the contents of Government Exhibit 13. 3 us through just a few of those. 4 MS. MURRAY: Page 74 of 256 323 Now, Government Exhibit 554 contains photographs or scans I want you to walk If we could go to page two, please, 5 Ms. Loftus, and if you could zoom in on the content. 6 Q. 7 that were relevant to your investigation? 8 A. I do. 9 Q. What names? 10 A. Well, the two that stand out most pointedly, Thomas J. 11 Hockenberry and Gerald Brown. 12 name on the lease of the Mercedes Benz. 13 person who rented the white Jeep Cherokee. 14 Q. 15 Thomas J. Hockenberry as an example, what type of information 16 is on this page? 17 A. 18 and where or where not he may have had bank accounts. 19 Q. 20 that right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Can you read that? 23 A. 11 Stalion Road in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, 17015. 24 Q. Based on your training and experience, what, if anything, 25 do the numbers on the next line appear to represent? Do you recognize any names from this page of that notebook Thomas J. Hockenberry is the Gerald Brown was the Focusing on all of the information on this page but taking What I believe to be notes about potentially his credit, And looking at this, there appears to be an address; is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 75 of 256 324 1 A. Mr. Hockenberry's Social Security number and date of birth. 2 Q. And then there's some annotations over on the right. 3 you identify the first line that's listed, the title of that 4 column? 5 A. Chase. 6 Q. What does the next column appear to indicate? 7 A. TD. 8 Q. What word or words were written for the Thomas J. 9 Hockenberry entry in this column? 10 A. Good. 11 Can Good. MS. MURRAY: If we could go to page five, please, 12 Ms. Loftus. Zoom in on content again. 13 Q. What is reflected on this page of the notebook? 14 A. It looks like a list of -- well, it's names of companies, 15 or brands, and numbers. 16 Q. 17 that? 18 A. And looking at the second entry I'll call it, can you read Molton Brown, 200. 19 MS. MURRAY: If we can go to page 13, please, 20 Ms. Loftus, and focus on the content. 21 Q. 22 name? 23 A. Gerald M. Hanson. 24 Q. And does there appear to be a number written associated 25 with Mr. Hanson? Looking at the top name that's listed here, what is that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 A. There does. 2 Q. What do you understand that reflects? 3 A. Mr. Hanson's Social Security number. 4 MS. MURRAY: Page 76 of 256 325 And now page 30, please, Ms. Loftus. 5 Q. 6 please read that? 7 A. These are good for both Chase and TD. 8 Q. And in looking down the page, it appears to be additional 9 identifiers, including for the Thomas J. Hockenberry data; is 10 that correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. So based on your training and experience and involvement in 13 this investigation, do you have an understanding what that 14 phrase, "these are good for both Chase and TD" indicates? 15 A. I do. 16 Q. What is that understanding? 17 A. That these notes reflect research that was done to ensure 18 that Mr. Hockenberry doesn't have an existing account at either 19 Chase or TD, because if the real Thomas Hockenberry has an 20 account there, you know, the bank would say, Mr. Hockenberry, 21 you already have an account. 22 being clear, not banking at either institution. 23 Looking at the top two lines of this notebook page, can you MS. MURRAY: So it's -- I interpret this as Ms. Loftus, can you please take that down 24 and publish Government Exhibit 550. 25 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, this is another item that -- or scan SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 77 of 256 326 1 of another item that was recovered from the apartment. 2 recognize any of the names or words written on this page from 3 your investigation? 4 A. I do. 5 Q. I'm looking at the bottom left quadrant in particular. 6 appears that there is a line around four of those names. 7 if anything, is the annotation next to those names? 8 A. 9 Do you It What, The word "passport." MS. MURRAY: Now, if you could publish 551, please, 10 Ms. Loftus. 11 Q. 12 any names of entities or other words that were relevant to your 13 investigation on this page? 14 A. I do. 15 Q. Just focusing on the first four lines, were any of the 16 information in the first four lines relevant to your 17 investigation? 18 A. Yes, they were. 19 Q. And can you read to the best of your ability what is 20 written in those two -- first four lines? 21 A. 22 HSBC; BRS Consulting Corp, dollar sign, M&T, dollar sign, HSBC, 23 and with check marks next to each. 24 25 Again, a document recovered from the apartment. Do you see Mula Apps, Chase; AppsSensible.com, Chase; M2 Gold Jets, MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you now publish Government Exhibit 555. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 78 of 256 1 Q. 2 photograph of the item that we saw in Government Exhibit 581, 3 which was recovered from this search at 1805 Purves Street? 4 A. 327 Special Agent Lidsky, looking at this page, is this a It is. 5 MS. MURRAY: 6 exhibit, please, Ms. Loftus. 7 of this document, which was recovered from 1805 Purves Street. 8 Q. What is this? 9 A. This is a lease agreement from -- between Silver Star 10 Motors and Mr. Hockenberry and Etudia Software Engineering for 11 the lease of the Mercedes S-580. 12 Q. 13 Mercedes, does this document which was recovered from the 1805 14 apartment relate to the same car that you observed Mr. Ilori 15 driving? 16 A. Yes, it does. 17 Q. Thank you. 18 And if we could turn to page 14 of this And zooming in on the top portion Based on your review of this and the records received from MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. 19 Q. I'd like to turn now to October 8, 2021, the day after the 20 Purves Street search. 21 with the investigation? 22 A. 23 in St. Albans, Queens, New York. 24 Q. 25 that day? What did you do that day in connection I set up surveillance out in the area of -- the Dunlop area Why were you conducting surveillance in that location on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 79 of 256 328 1 A. I was waiting for Mr. Ilori to exit his home. 2 Q. And just to be clear, is that location the approximate 3 location you had identified through, among other things, your 4 cell site simulator for the 0624 phone? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. And also the location where you had observed the Mitsubishi 7 that was relevant to your investigation? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. So on October 8, 2021, when you were at that location, did 10 you have an understanding of the location of the 0642 phone at 11 that time from your electronic surveillance? 12 A. It was pinging in the area of St. Albans, Queens, New York. 13 Q. So tell us what you saw that morning. 14 A. So we set up surveillance on the Mercedes itself. 15 Mercedes was parked just around the corner from Dunlop, and we 16 set up in a place where we could see if anybody came out and 17 got in the Mercedes. 18 Q. And what, if anything, did you see? 19 A. We observed Mr. Ilori come out and enter the car. 20 Q. What part of the car did Mr. Ilori enter? 21 A. He was alone. 22 Q. What did you do next? 23 A. We pulled up in front of him. 24 me, and we came out and I spoke with Mr. Ilori. 25 driver's side. So the He entered the driver's seat of the car. I had two other agents with I went to the I was identified pretty overtly as a police SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 80 of 256 329 officer at that point. 2 I said, Mr. Ilori, we have a warrant to search your 3 person. 4 Q. 5 on physical surveillance at the location the morning of October 6 8, 2021, is it correct you had a warrant that authorized you to 7 search something? 8 A. 9 before for the apartment, it also gave us authority to search 10 Mr. Ilori's person, but because Mr. Ilori had left the 11 apartment, we were only able to execute half of it on the night 12 of the 7th. 13 And I asked him to step out of the car, which he did. And so to back up for a moment, when you were setting up or I did. So the same search warrant I had for the night That is the apartment search. So the other half of the warrant had gone unexecuted, 14 and that's what we intended to do on the morning of the 8th. 15 Q. And did you in fact search Mr. Ilori's person that morning? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. Generally speaking what sort of items did you recover from 18 Mr. Ilori's person? 19 A. 20 cellular telephones, some other documentation, the key to the 21 Mercedes, also a key to the Halo apartment, and a key fob for 22 the Halo apartment building. 23 Q. 24 person that morning, did you conduct a search of anything else? 25 A. Multiple debit cards, a business card, an ID card, multiple Special Agent Lidsky, in addition to searching Mr. Ilori's We ended up also searching the Mercedes itself. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 81 of 256 1 Q. And what, if anything, did you recover from the Mercedes? 2 A. A cell phone, additional debit cards, and two photo IDs, 3 two driver's licenses. 4 5 MS. MURRAY: 330 Your Honor, at this time I'd like to approach the witness with another two physical exhibits. 6 THE COURT: That's fine. 7 Q. I'm going to first return these to you, Special Agent 8 Lidsky, Government Exhibit 11. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, I'm handing you what's been marked 11 for identification as Government Exhibits 23 and 22. 12 recognize the contents of Government Exhibit 22 to begin with? 13 A. I do. 14 Q. What do you recognize those contents to be? 15 A. These are some of the items or the items that we seized at 16 least as evidence from Mr. Ilori's person. 17 what he was holding or what was in his pockets, on his body. 18 Q. 19 contents of Government Exhibit 23? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. What is in Government Exhibit 23? 22 A. These are items that were recovered from the trunk of the 23 Mercedes Benz. Thank you. Do you That is from either And looking at Government Exhibit 23, do you recognize the 24 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers 25 Government Exhibits 22 and 23. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 82 of 256 331 1 MR. BRILL: No objection. 2 THE COURT: They'll be received. 3 (Government's Exhibits 22 and 23 received in evidence) 4 Q. 5 please, Special Agent Lidsky, to what's been marked for 6 identification in your binder as Governments Exhibits 630, 660, 7 661, 671, 520 through 526, and 530 through 532. 8 take a look at those and look up when you're finished. 9 A. I think I got them all. 10 Q. Do you recognize those, Special Agent Lidsky? 11 A. I do. 12 Q. What are they? 13 A. They're photos of the items I was just describing that were 14 seized in St. Albans. 15 Q. 16 conducted from the defendant Adedayo Ilori or the Mercedes Benz 17 on the morning of October 8th, 2021? 18 A. 19 As I attempt to work the technology, I would direct you I'd ask you to Are they fair and accurate photographs of items that were Yes, they are. MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers 20 Government Exhibits 630, 660, 661, 671, 520 through 526, and 21 530 through 532. 22 THE COURT: Mr. Brill? 23 MR. BRILL: Just one moment, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Sure. 25 MR. BRILL: No objection. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Sorry. Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 83 of 256 332 1 THE COURT: 2 (Government's Exhibits 630, 660, 661, 671, 520 through 3 They will be received in evidence. 526, 530 through 532 received in evidence) 4 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. 5 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, starting with Government Exhibit 22, 6 this is the key fob that was on Mr. Ilori's person at the time 7 of the arrest. 8 9 I'm going to try this again. We're just going to do it the old fashioned way. 10 Looking at this key fob, there are letters and then 11 numbers printed on the bottom. 12 you, and if you could read them for the jury. 13 THE COURT: All right. If I could please hand that to And after the witness looks at 14 it and reads it into the record, you may pass it around to the 15 jurors. 16 MS. MURRAY: 17 A. It's actually -- 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. -- over there. 20 28084. 21 Q. 22 23 Q. Do you want a magnifying glass? Oh, we have a magnifying glass. THE COURT: Q. I believe it's 28084 or 2 -- I think it's Do you want to take another look? THE COURT: 24 25 Thank you. Thank you, your Honor. My eyesight is not what it used to be. Thank you, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 A. Thank you, your Honor. 2 Q. Thank you, Special Agent Lidsky. MS. MURRAY: 4 You're welcome to pass it around. A. 333 28884. 3 5 Page 84 of 256 I'll pass this to the jury. They might need this, too. 6 THE COURT: Yes, you can pass it with that. 7 Is there any objection, Mr. Brill? 8 MR. BRILL: No, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 10 Q. 11 recovered from Mr. Ilori's person, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. I want to look at a few of the other items that were 14 recovered from Mr. Ilori's person. 15 A. I do. 16 Q. Focusing first on the one on the left, are you able to see 17 the name associated with that business debit account? 18 A. I am. 19 Q. What is the name on that account? 20 A. Jonathan Herttua and Mula Apps Corp. 21 Q. And then looking on the right on the business debit account 22 again, what is the name associated with that business debit 23 account? 24 A. 25 So Special Agent Lidsky, 28884 is the number on the key fob Do you see these two items? Jonathan Herttua and AppSensible.com, LLC. MR. BRILL: Your Honor, can the government identify SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 85 of 256 those for the record? 2 THE COURT: Yes. 3 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, these are contained in 4 334 Government Exhibit 22. 5 THE COURT: Thank you. 6 MS. MURRAY: And Government Exhibit 22 contained items 7 recovered from Mr. Ilori's person. 8 Q. 9 contained within Government Exhibit 22 recovered from 10 Mr. Ilori's person. 11 And here as well, Special Agent Lidsky, another item What are we looking at here? 12 A. This is a Spark business debit card in the name of BRS 13 Consulting Corp and Jonathan A. Herttua. 14 Q. And the last four digits on this debit card? 15 A. 5953. 16 Q. Is this the debit card that we have identified transactions 17 being conducted with over the course of the records we've 18 reviewed today? 19 A. It is. 20 Q. And then one last card for you. 21 22, items recovered from Mr. Ilori's person. 22 see this? 23 A. I am. 24 Q. What does this appear to be? 25 A. A business card. Again, Government Exhibit Are you able to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 86 of 256 335 1 Q. And what is the font that's printed on this portion of the 2 card? 3 A. Dfine by Dayo Ilori. 4 Q. And I'm going to turn to the back. 5 that? 6 A. Yes, I am. 7 Q. What does this say? 8 A. On the top it says "Dfine yourself." 9 that, but immediately under the logo I see the name Dayo Ilori, 10 so it looks like www.Dfinebydayoilori.com. 11 Q. What is the name listed at the bottom? 12 A. Dayo Ilori. 13 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, in addition to the items in 14 Government Exhibit 22, some of which we've just looked at, what 15 else, if anything, did you recover from the person of Mr. Ilori 16 at the time of his arrest? 17 A. 18 that or he was in the car. 19 Q. 20 electronic devices from Mr. Ilori's person? 21 A. 22 person. Are you able to see I can't read under I believe he was holding the key to the Mercedes, either What about electronic devices? We did multiple cell phones. 23 MS. MURRAY: 24 which is in evidence. 25 Q. Did you recover any I believe three on his Ms. Loftus, can you publish Exhibit 660, Special Agent Lidsky, does this reflect one of the phones SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 87 of 256 336 1 that you recovered from the defendant when you searched him on 2 October 8, 2021? 3 A. It does. 4 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you now please publish 5 Government Exhibit 661, which is in evidence? 6 Q. 7 defendant? 8 A. It is. 9 Q. Now, Special Agent Lidsky, for this particular phone, an 10 iPhone 12, what, if anything, did you do with this iPhone 12 11 when you recovered it from the defendant's person? 12 A. 13 Mr. Ilori's face. 14 Q. 15 that. 16 A. 17 with them, have a face unlock feature. 18 part of our search warrant to compel Mr. Ilori to look at the 19 phone when we held it up, which he did of course. 20 did, it unlocked. Is this another phone that you recovered from the We unlocked it using the defendant's face, using I ask you to describe for the jury how you were able to do Sure. So, now, a lot of iPhones, for anyone not familiar We had a court order as 21 MS. MURRAY: 22 publish Government Exhibit 671. 23 Q. 24 recovered from the defendant on October 8, 2021? 25 A. And when we And, Ms. Loftus, if you could now please Special Agent Lidsky, is this another phone that you It is. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT 1 Q. What type of phone is this? 2 A. A Motorola. Page 88 of 256 3 MS. MURRAY: 4 Your Honor, at this time the government offers a 5 337 Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. stipulation between the parties. 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 MS. MURRAY: It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and 8 between the United States America by Damian Williams, United 9 States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Juliana 10 N. Murray and David R. Felton, Assistant United States 11 Attorneys, and Adedayo Ilori, by his attorney, Peter Brill, 12 that if called as a witness, a custodian of records as at Goose 13 Property Management, LLC, Goose Property, would state as 14 follows: 15 The custodian of records is familiar with the record 16 keeping processes of Goose Property, which is a company that 17 provides property management services to residential rental 18 buildings, including, among others location -- pardon, 19 including, among other locations, Brooklyn and Long Island 20 City. 21 On or about August 6, 2021, the manager of the rental 22 property located at Halo LIC, 4441 Purves Street, apartment 23 1805, Long Island City, 11101, apartment 1805, entered 24 apartment 1805 in connection with a maintenance issue. 25 Government Exhibit 284 is a true and correct copy of a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 89 of 256 338 1 photograph taken at apartment 1805 on or about August 6, 2021. 2 Government Exhibit 282 is a true and correct copy of a screen 3 shot of part of the tenant portal related to apartment 1805 and 4 a tenancy of, quote, Mark Heffron, which is spelled 5 H-e-f-r-o-n. 6 number described as, quote, card number assigned to each of the 7 two key fobs issued for apartment 1805 between on or about 8 May 1, 2021, and on or about October 8, 2021. 9 This screen shot shows the electronic key fob Government Exhibit 283 is a true and correct copy of a 10 receipt for the purchase of an additional electronic key fob 11 for apartment 1805 on or about May 31, 2021, purchased by, 12 quote, Mark Heffron, here spelled H-e-f-f-r-o-n, using a visa 13 credit card ending in 2230. 14 It is further stipulated and agreed that this 15 stipulation, which is marked Government Exhibit 5, and 16 Government Exhibits 282 through 284 may be received into 17 evidence as government exhibits at trial. 18 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, at this time the government 19 offers Government Exhibit 5 and Government Exhibits 282 through 20 284. 21 MR. BRILL: No objection. 22 THE COURT: They will be received in evidence. 23 (Government's Exhibits 5, 282 through 284 received in 24 25 evidence) THE COURT: Ms. Murray, you might want to retrieve -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 90 of 256 1 MS. MURRAY: 2 JUROR: 3 THE COURT: I just don't want evidence to be lost. 4 MS. MURRAY: I appreciate it. 5 THE COURT: Thank you. 6 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 339 Yes, and thank you, your Honor. Here you go. Thank you. 7 Government Exhibit 282. 8 Q. 9 portal relating to apartment 1805, and in the table you see 10 here it identifies two different card numbers. 11 that? 12 A. Special Agent Lidsky, this is a screen shot from the tenant Do you see I do. 13 MS. MURRAY: If we could focus on those, please, 14 Ms. Loftus. 15 Q. 16 is? 17 A. 28884. 18 Q. And then looking at the key fob that you have, which is in 19 Government Exhibit 22, items recovered from Mr. Ilori's person 20 on October 8th, can you read the number that is printed on that 21 key fob? 22 A. 28884. 23 Q. And, Special Agent Lidsky, we are going to give you another 24 shot at Government Exhibit 10. 25 from apartment 1805 on October 7, 2021. Looking at the first, can you read what that card number That's the key fob recovered SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 91 of 256 340 Can you please look at that and read any number that 2 you see printed on that particular key fob? 3 A. 16733. 4 Q. And, Special Agent Lidsky, looking at Government Exhibit 5 282, which are records from Goose Property Management for 6 apartment 1805, do you see another card number for a key fob 7 issued for that apartment? 8 A. 16733. 9 Q. Just a few more items I want to walk through with you from 10 these various items, Special Agent Lidsky. 11 12 MS. MURRAY: You can take that down. Thank you, Ms. Loftus. 13 If you could please publish Government Exhibits 521 14 and 522 side by side. 15 Q. 16 you recovered from the 1805 apartment at Purves Street. 17 you please describe for the jury what we're look at in these 18 exhibits? 19 A. This is a business card, Dfine by Dayo Ilori business card. 20 Q. What, if anything, are you able to determine by this 21 business card as compared to the business card in Exhibit 22 22 which was recovered from the defendant's person? 23 A. 24 the same -- you know, two separate business cards of the same 25 thing. Special Agent Lidsky, these are photographs of items that Can It looks to be the same -- not the same business card but SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 Q. 2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 92 of 256 341 Thank you. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, you can take that down. 3 Q. 4 the day that you searched Mr. Ilori's person and the white 5 Mercedes, what, if anything, did you recover from the front 6 area of that car? 7 A. Another mobile device, another mobile phone. 8 Q. What type of phone? 9 A. It was a Samsung I believe. 10 Q. And where was that Samsung located in the Mercedes? 11 A. It was in the center console adjacent to the driver's seat. 12 And, Special Agent Lidsky, turning back to October 8, 2021, MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please show Special 13 Agent Lidsky what is marked for identification as Government 14 Exhibit 750, show that to the Court, the defense, and Special 15 Agent Lidsky, please. 16 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, do you recognize this? 17 A. I do. 18 Q. What is it? 19 A. This is a chart with a summary of loans, government loans, 20 PPP loans, EIDL loans, both received, funded and attempted. 21 Q. 22 summarize information contained within voluminous records? 23 A. It does. 24 Q. Is the chart reflected here accurate? 25 A. It is. Does Government Exhibit 750 summarize voluminous -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 93 of 256 1 Q. How do you know it's accurate? 2 A. I obtained all of these records, I reviewed all of these 3 records, and I've double checked. 4 Q. 5 on cited in Government Exhibit 750? 6 A. And are the source documents that this summary chart relied They are. 7 8 342 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 750. 9 THE COURT: Mr. Brill? 10 MR. BRILL: No objection, Your Honor. 11 THE COURT: It will be received. 12 (Government Exhibit 750 received in evidence) 13 MS. MURRAY: Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Loftus, can you please publish to the 14 jury. 15 Q. 16 loans that are reflected on this summary chart in Government 17 Exhibit 750? 18 A. 19 represent applications for pandemic relief funding, some of 20 which were funded and received cash and some of which were 21 denied. 22 Q. 23 anything were you able to determine during your investigation 24 about whether the individuals listed here as associated with 25 these loans were in fact the individuals who submitted Special Agent Lidsky, how did you select the particular So these were identified as loan -- all of these I think And focusing on the person column for a moment, what if SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - DIRECT Page 94 of 256 343 1 applications for these loans? 2 A. 3 theft for the purpose of applying for these loans. 4 Q. 5 contents of this chart represent? 6 A. 7 the monies were disbursed into bank accounts. 8 Q. 9 face, what are those loans? 10 A. 11 funded. 12 Q. 13 the dollar amount of the total number of loans that were either 14 attempted or actually funded in the names of these identity 15 theft victims? 16 A. $10,047,745. 17 Q. And what was the dollar amount associated with the approved 18 and funded loans for these identity theft victims? 19 A. $1,024,625. 20 Q. And just to be clear, are all of the loans reflected on 21 this summary chart and all of the identity theft victims, are 22 all of those related to our investigation related to who you 23 determined to be Chris Recamier and Adedayo Ilori, among 24 others? 25 A. That all of these names listed were victims of identity And what if anything does the bold face type within the Those represent five loans that were actually funded where And for the other loans reflected here that are not in bold Those were the applications that were denied and not Looking at the bottom of this summary chart, can you read They are. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 1 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 95 of 256 344 You can take that down, Ms. Loftus. 2 Q. On October 8, 2021, after you searched Mr. Ilori's person 3 and the Mercedes, what if anything did do you with respect to 4 Mr. Ilori? 5 A. I placed him under arrest. 6 MS. MURRAY: Just a moment, your Honor, please. 7 THE COURT: Yes. 8 MS. MURRAY: Nothing further, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 Mr. Brill, cross-examination? 11 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 12 MS. MURRAY: If I may just collect the evidence for a 14 THE COURT: Oh, yes. 15 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: Mr. Brill, while she's doing that, just to 13 Thank you. Thank you. moment. 17 give you a sense of timing, I'd like to go to between 12:45 and 18 1:00, so whenever you get to a convenient breaking point, you 19 can let me know, okay? 20 MR. BRILL: (Nodding head up and down.) 21 CROSS-EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. BRILL: 23 Q. Good afternoon, Agent Lidsky. 24 A. Good afternoon, Counselor. 25 Q. Let's just start kind of toward the end. When you searched SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 96 of 256 345 1 this apartment at Purves Street, would it be fair to say that 2 the only thing you found connecting Mr. Ilori to that apartment 3 was a -- that black and gold business card that we saw? 4 A. By name and discounting the surveillance video? 5 Q. Just based upon the search. 6 A. So, yeah, tangible items? 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. I -- well, without getting into computer forensics, yes, 9 the only thing I found with his name on it is the business card 10 I believe. 11 Q. 12 medical records it looked like, correct? 13 A. I do believe we found some medical records, yes. 14 Q. And those had actually the name of Chris Recamier on them, 15 right? 16 A. Yes, they did. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And even though it said the name Heffron on it, it also 20 said the name Chris on it? 21 A. It did parenthetically, underneath. 22 Q. When you showed up at the apartment to search Mr. Recamier 23 was there, correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Okay. Okay. When you did search the apartment, you found some And you found that Air France luggage tag? And he answered to the name Heffron or appeared to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 97 of 256 346 1 understand that you were referring to him from your 2 perspective? 3 A. He did. 4 Q. When -- 5 A. I'm sorry, sir. 6 Q. That's okay. 7 A. Yes, he did. 8 Q. And would it be fair to say that in that notebook that you 9 found, each -- there's an entry in that notebook that 10 corresponded to each of the loans that you ultimately 11 determined to be fraudulent, a name or some other identifying 12 information that corresponded to each of those loans? 13 A. 14 names, and notes, yes. 15 Q. 16 was living in that apartment? 17 A. 18 an office honestly than a residence. 19 Q. There was a bed there, right? 20 A. There was a bed there, but there wasn't much furniture at 21 all. 22 There was a bathroom. 23 Q. 24 was related to Mr. Recamier? 25 A. In sum, I believe, yes, we did find the names, company Okay. Was there any indication that more than one person It's hard for me to say. I -- I viewed it more as a -- as The living room was pretty much devoid. Okay. There was a bed. There was a limited amount of clothes. Did you find anything else of a personal nature that We did find some other items, yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 98 of 256 347 1 Q. What types of items? 2 A. I mean, he actually had some Chris Recamier identification 3 on him. 4 card or benefits card, maybe something like that. 5 there was also, as Mr. Brill mentioned, some health paperwork 6 and maybe some other mail items. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I believe. 9 I didn't collect as evidence. 10 Q. I think it was a New York state -- either a medical I think I'm not as familiar with the -- you know, stuff Understood. 11 And then what about just with regard to indications of 12 people living there? 13 apartment, right? 14 A. There was, yes. 15 Q. Toiletries and things like that in the bathroom? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Was there anything in the refrigerator? 18 A. I don't remember looking in the refrigerator. 19 of my colleagues did, but there were -- there were I think 20 items, you know, prepare for stay, you know, that could be 21 considered useful for staying overnight, Yes. 22 Q. 23 that, right? 24 A. It did, yes. 25 Q. All right. Okay. There was a bathroom I assume in this I'm sure one The bed had sheets on it, had a pillow, things like So the fact that maybe somebody was working out SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 99 of 256 348 1 of the apartment didn't preclude the idea that, you know, 2 Mr. Recamier was living there, correct? 3 A. No. 4 Q. And just jumping topics slightly, over the course of your 5 investigation, you indicated -- and obviously we saw some of 6 it, that you looked at surveillance video, the comings and 7 goings of people in that apartment, right? 8 A. We did. 9 Q. And how many -- if you can recall, and I don't know if you 10 have an exact number, but how many times did you see 11 Mr. Recamier entering that apartment over the course of the 12 time that you surveilled it or looked at the video 13 surveillance? 14 A. 15 sort of event driven, and a lot of those events related to the 16 IP address use, where we saw an IP address at a time for one of 17 the log-ins to the accounts. 18 videos. They could have co-existed. So the video was -- as I testified earlier, the video was That's when we focused on the 19 I don't recall offhand, so, you know, that's a long 20 way of saying I didn't watch the video each day to see when 21 somebody came, when somebody left. 22 did see Mr. Recamier coming and going to the apartment alone. 23 Q. 24 when you are looking at the videos from the hallway, you're 25 looking at them only based upon records that you saw that Okay. All right. There were videos where I So just so we're clear, for the record, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 100 of 256 349 1 someone is logging into the Robinhood account, right? 2 A. 3 to log-ins. 4 before certain events would drive which video we requested, the 5 IP address was a large part of one, because I wasn't as 6 concerned about necessarily who was in the apartment and when, 7 rather when if somebody was there and committing -- you know, 8 doing something in furtherance of the fraud I was 9 investigating. 10 Q. 11 video. 12 events trigger your -- you, know, that next step, let me look 13 at the video? 14 A. 15 day of type event. 16 Q. 17 going to need you to define those terms. Not just the Robinhood account and not just contemporaneous Okay. That was most of the events -- when I mentioned So there are events that cause you to look at the Some of them are logging into Robinhood. Could have been a surveillance event. Okay. 18 What other It could have been a I don't -- none jump out. So hold on. Let me -- you used two terms. I'm What is a surveillance event? 19 A. So if we -- I believe we got video on a day where we saw 20 Mr. Recamier and Mr. Ilori exiting the apartment, so that's -- 21 it wasn't from a floor itself, but it was surveillance video 22 from outside, just to confirm what they were wearing, if we 23 could see a car they got into, things like that. 24 Q. 25 concept? And a day of event, is that similar? Is that a different SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 101 of 256 350 1 A. So I think we got video from maybe the day of they were 2 moving in. 3 like October 7, before we went in, when Mr. -- when we observed 4 Mr. Ilori leaving, but things like that would be what I 5 consider sort of a day of. 6 Q. 7 were the investigator who's responsible for getting most if not 8 all of the subpoena returns from the various 56 companies with 9 respect to this case? 10 A. Majority, yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 records, correct? 13 A. 14 that one, but -- 15 Q. Okay. And you reviewed the information you received back? 16 A. I did. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. So just using say Robinhood as one example, how 18 many, if you recall, interactions did -- from the accounts that 19 you subpoenaed were there? 20 log-ins or interactions were there that you got back from 21 Robinhood? 22 A. I don't recall offhand. 23 Q. Would it be fair to say it was in the nature of thousands 24 of individual interactions? 25 A. Okay. I don't recall if we got video from the night of, Sorry for the -- And just generally, would it be fair to say that you So you subpoenaed Robinhood and Coinbase for their We did as a team. I don't remember e-mailing or faxing How many individual, you know, I'd have to look at the records. I wouldn't guess that high. There were a lot. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 I would say Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MARDILO1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 LIDSKY - CROSS Page 102 of 256 351 1 hundreds, and it could possibly be thousands, yes. 2 Q. 3 you weren't basing it off of the hundreds or possibly thousands 4 of individual interactions. 5 that's triggering you to go and look at the video, correct? 6 A. 7 1805 in Purves Street. 8 account was accessed from the apartment that drove our request 9 for surveillance video from the apartment. 10 (Continued on next page) Okay. Right. And so just to be clear, when you pulled the video, It was -- there was something else So the IP address was associated with apartment So it's only records that showed the 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross 1 BY MR. BRILL: 2 Q. 3 just sticking to Robinhood? Page 103 of 256 352 And did you get surveillance video for every interaction, 4 And let me go back for one second. There are other accounts with different companies that 5 are also being accessed from your investigation from that 6 Purves Street apartment, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. So let's just stick with Robinhood just so we can narrow it 9 down a little bit. 10 hallway for every single one of those interactions that reflect 11 that IP address, right? 12 A. 13 some had dated back -- I want to say that the apartment 14 company, or the leasing company that provided the video did run 15 it to a historical date range. 16 May, they only had from June something forward. 17 requested all of them. 18 of video. You didn't get surveillance from the I want to say we requested all of them, I believe because MR. BRILL: 20 Exhibit 354, electronically? Okay. So I think we I don't think we received the universe 19 21 I want to say they didn't have Okay. Ms. Loftus, do you have access to Would we be able to expand the columns so we 22 can see what's in the column? 23 Q. 24 Lidsky, can you tell if this is the Robinhood interactions, or 25 some of them, at least? So with respect to this, just by looking at it, Agent SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 104 of 256 353 1 A. I don't see anything on here that confirms it's Robinhood, 2 but I think if this is the record that was -- then I'm happy -- 3 Q. 4 Robinhood record. 5 A. Okay. Then yes. 6 Q. Okay. And so you see the tabs on the bottom where USAO 7 5195 is currently highlighted? 8 A. I do. 9 Q. Do you know why they're separated like that; is it just 10 based upon month or something like that? 11 A. I'm guessing it's either month or account number or -- 12 Q. Don't guess. So it's previously been stipulated into evidence as a 13 MR. BRILL: Ms. Loftus, can you click on the next one, 14 5196, just so we can see. 15 Q. 16 right? 17 A. I do. 18 Q. So that's June, correct? 19 A. These are all June, yes. 20 Q. And then going back to 5195. So looking at 5196, you see the time stamp towards the 21 MR. BRILL: Ms. Loftus, can you click on that. Thank 22 you. 23 Q. You see these are July and early August, it looks like? 24 A. I do see that. 25 Q. All right. So based upon your prior review of these SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 105 of 256 1 transactions, would it be fair to say that it's probably 2 account -- like account statement periods? 3 A. 354 This might correspond to account statements, yes. 4 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: Overruled. 6 Q. Looking at the IP address, now on the left, now previously 7 you testified that IP addresses are corresponding to specific 8 devices; is that accurate? 9 A. That's my understanding, yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 the left, do you know, based upon your investigation, why the 12 last set of digits differs from transaction to transaction, 13 101, 39, 248, etc.? 14 A. 15 devices, as they connect, so if you're on your mobile device, 16 you have an IP address, as you move in a car or on the train 17 and you connect to a different tower, that IP address is likely 18 to change. 19 three digits before it also changing reflect, you know, just 20 different IP addresses being assigned at different times. 21 Q. 22 at Purves Street, did you recover any computers and mobile 23 devices from that apartment? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And what did you recover? And looking at the IP addresses that are listed on So IP addresses, they change, especially with mobile Okay. And so the last digit here changing, sometimes the So just to be clear, when you conducted your search SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 106 of 256 1 A. 2 all-in-one computer, and additional mobile phones. 3 Q. 4 if any, were used to access the Robinhood account? 5 A. 6 device accessed the account. 7 possible to correspond an IP address to a device. 8 Q. 9 addresses, I think, based upon what you testified to a little 10 bit earlier, this corresponds to a specific provider? 11 be the Purves Street apartment building provides that WiFi? 355 A number of laptops, a tablet, I believe, a large iMac And based upon your investigation, which of those devices, I don't recall if we were able to identify which particular Okay. The IP address -- it's not always But just looking at the 172.58 portion of these IP Would it 12 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Grounds? 14 MS. MURRAY: Foundation for this witness to know that 15 information. 16 THE COURT: Sustained. 17 MR. BRILL: I'll rephrase it. Thank you. 18 BY MR. BRILL: 19 Q. 20 your investigation? 21 A. I don't. 22 Q. Don't guess. 23 A. Thank you. 24 Q. Do you know just generally if residents of that apartment 25 building were provided with WiFi? Do you know what the 172.58 IP address reflects, based upon I have an idea, but I don't. Don't guess. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 107 of 256 1 A. I don't know if the building provided WiFi. 2 found a modem and router installed in the apartment. 3 Q. 4 of IP addresses that that modem and router provided to the 5 user? 6 A. The -- I don't know how it was configured, so -- 7 Q. Fine. 8 A. Thank you. 9 Q. The other IP address that you previously testified was 10 67.245.59.63. Okay. 11 I do know we Were you able to determine the IP address or range Like I said, no guessing. MR. BRILL: And Ms. Loftus, I want to bounce back to 12 this exhibit, but if we could just put up Exhibit 740 for one 13 second. 14 Q. You had previously testified -- 15 MR. BRILL: Oh. There we go. 16 Q. 17 point was associated with that IP address, 67.245.59.63. 18 can see it kind of towards the bottom of the page, correct? You had previously testified that this 0642 number at some 19 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, for a moment. You This exhibit 20 reflects information related to the 0642 number, not the IP 21 address. 22 exhibit. 23 24 25 356 I think Mr. Brill might be thinking of a different THE COURT: Overruled. I think he's referencing something in the middle of this document; am I correct? MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. I can ask the question SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 108 of 256 357 1 differently, just to clarify. 2 BY MR. BRILL: 3 Q. 4 says IP address, towards the bottom of the page, middle to the 5 bottom, you see that, right? 6 A. I see it, yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 associated with? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What was that? 11 A. The IP address for the apartment 1805. 12 Q. Is this -- the 67, is that the apartment IP address or is 13 that an IP address that was associated with something else? 14 A. 15 the Charter records to confirm. Did you testify earlier about what that was I believe it's the apartment address, but I have to look at MR. BRILL: 16 17 I believe you testified about this previously, but where it Okay. So going back to -- sorry, one second -- 354, the one we were just looking at. 18 There we go. And could we go over to the -- that next 19 tab, 5196. 20 Q. 21 appears, correct, at line 15, for example? 22 A. I see the -- I see line 15. 23 Q. Okay. 24 fair to say that the vast majority of interactions with the 25 Robinhood account are occurring from an IP address that begins Occasionally, throughout this document, that IP address So based upon a review of these records, would it be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 MS. MURRAY: 358 Objection, your Honor. Calls for characterization of "the vast majority." 4 5 Page 109 of 256 with 172? 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross THE COURT: The document is in evidence and it speaks for itself. 6 MR. BRILL: Okay. Thank you, your Honor. 7 Q. The 0642 phone that you were hunting at the beginning of 8 your investigation, I just want to ask you a little bit about 9 that. You start looking at this phone—-correct me if I'm 10 11 wrong—-not because you think that the individual -- I mean, at 12 the outset, you don't think that the individual who was using 13 that phone is engaged in criminal activity, it's just an 14 interesting data point that you're following up on, right? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Okay. 17 this phone number across a couple of different applications for 18 loans, right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 for loans as well, right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. 24 application that had I think three separate phone numbers on 25 it, correct? I wouldn't agree with that. So the -- you see this across a couple -- you see And you see other phone numbers across applications Do you see -- we had looked at one point at an Do you remember that? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 110 of 256 359 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. Okay. 3 example, do one or the other one of those appear across other 4 applications as well? 5 A. 6 think one of them may be -- yeah, I don't recall if they do. 7 There were some others that I did see across, but I -- I'd have 8 to -- I'd have to look at the records to confirm, to give you 9 numbers. 10 Q. 11 The other two phone numbers on that application, for I don't recall offhand. I'd have to look. I recall -- I Yeah, I don't want to get too bogged down in it. MR. BRILL: Could we look at Exhibit 570. 12 Q. This is the analysis that you testified that you had 13 conducted with regard to the 0642 phone number, right? 14 A. Yes, that's correct. 15 Q. Okay. 16 phone numbers that you saw throughout some of the fraudulent 17 applications? 18 A. I did not. 19 Q. What about this number stood out to you that made you do 20 this one and not the other ones? 21 A. 22 number that I had, so it was a logical place to begin, because 23 as the investigation continued, as Mr. Brill suggested, I did 24 find other numbers, but the 0642 number continued across a 25 number of the key accounts. Did you conduct the similar analysis with the other Well, at the onset of the investigation, it was the only It -- I would characterize it as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 recurring. 2 Q. 3 you had? Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Explain that to me, Agent. 4 Page 111 of 256 360 That was the only number that So where -- maybe I wasn't -- withdrawn. You only had that number from one fraudulent account 5 that you started out with; is that an accurate statement? 6 A. 7 PPP loan that started this investigation. 8 Q. 9 with it. 10 A. 11 have been a secondary number, but that was the one that was 12 first provided as part of the workup that we received from the 13 PRAC, the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee that 14 forwarded us this lead and asked us to investigate. 15 the number that was provided or that they had extracted from -- 16 from the loan information. 17 Q. 18 exhibit, Exhibit 570, T-Mobile is sending you both general 19 location information and some sort of number that tells you 20 the -- is it like a probability of how close that location is 21 to the actual phone? 22 A. 23 but it -- it has a -- it contains a number -- each ping, each 24 data point received from T-Mobile does have a number which 25 references its accuracy measured in meters, from, you know, Yes, I believe so. Okay. It was the number associated with the And that PPP loan only had one number associated Phone number? That's the one I do recall. There might That was And I think you testified that with respect to this Yes. Is that a correct summary? So they -- I don't know how exactly they phrase it, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 112 of 256 1 small to -- to large. 2 Q. 3 circles are more accurate than the large circles, correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. Okay. 6 the darker the circles and the smaller the circles -- well, 7 withdrawn. 8 So the small circles kind of maybe -- sorry. 361 The small And the darker, specifically to this chart, or map, The darker the circles would indicate more frequent 9 contact with that location, correct? 10 A. 11 a plot, and it just gets darker and darker progressively. 12 Q. 13 light pink until it gets darker. 14 A. 15 otherwise, it would be impossible to see the layers. 16 Q. 17 like—-whatever this is—-Weeksville or Weedsville Heritage 18 Center on the lower left? 19 very small dot. 20 A. I see -- 21 Q. I can draw on this. 22 A. Yeah, okay. 23 Q. Okay. 24 one I picked, right? 25 and to -- based upon what you just said, that would indicate That's correct. Okay. That is a plot on top of a plot on top of So the software is just putting light pink on top of Correct. Just to -- that's the way to visualize volume; Going through your investigation, did you look at locations It seems like it's a very dark and Look at that. I do see the dot. So, again, there's a few of those, but that's just These are very small and very dark dot, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 113 of 256 362 1 the person went there quite a bit and it was very accurate, 2 right? 3 A. 4 frequency. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I did not. 7 Q. You got somebody -- you've got the phone up here in 8 Manhattan, just south of Central Park, a little bit of a bigger 9 series of dots but also quite frequent, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. All right. 12 that determination either? 13 A. Not conclusively, no. 14 Q. Okay. 15 focused over here in the Jamaica area was because this was 16 between midnight and 5 a.m., right? 17 A. 18 map. 19 Q. Yes, I'd say that's reflective both of accuracy and So did you figure out what was over there? And would it be fair to say you didn't make The reason I think you explained to us why you It's also I believe the darkest shade of any point on the Did you put up like a color chart to see which was darker? 20 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Sustained. 22 Q. How did you determine that—-I don't know—-again, randomly, 23 this one here by the casino was somewhat -- was that not the 24 same shade as the one in Jamaica? 25 A. It -SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 114 of 256 363 1 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Sustained. 3 can see the color. 4 Q. 5 among other things, license plate numbers, right? 6 A. Are you referring to the night of -- 7 Q. Sorry. 8 well, first you go to the Jamaica area, but based upon this -- Everybody So you go there and you start taking down, To be clear, you go over to the Jamaica area -- MR. BRILL: 9 10 All right. It's argumentative. If we could just put up 571, Ms. Loftus. Thank you. 11 How do I clear? There we go. 12 Q. This is a fairly large geographic area, right, between 13 Jamaica and Hollis? 14 A. That is correct. 15 Q. All right. 16 St. Albans, but St. Albans is actually down here, right? 17 A. Yes, on the map, yes. 18 Q. So you have to get closer to the phone, right, so there's 19 other techniques that you start using? 20 A. That is correct. 21 Q. And would it be fair to say that the most effective 22 technique you used was the cell site stimulator -- simulator? 23 Excuse me. 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. All right. And you had previously testified about Does that go by another name colloquially? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 115 of 256 364 1 A. It does. 2 Q. Stingray? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 know? 6 A. 7 for devices generally or, if it's programmed to look for a 8 specific device, it can look for that as well. 9 communicating with the device it's looking for—-in this case, 10 the 0642 target phone—-once it finds it, it can tell from where 11 it is, it can tell that the signal is to its left and, based on 12 the signal strength, about how far. 13 doing concentric squares. 14 it's a mobile unit that operates out of a vehicle, so as it's 15 driving this way on the street, if it picks up a signal on its 16 left, it can say then how far, and then you take the next 17 street down behind that, and if that signal is also on the 18 left, that means it's between the two streets. 19 that other street it's on the right, that means it's still 20 further over. 21 left, left, left, closer, closer, closer, you end up finding 22 the, you know -- making a -- an assessment of where the device 23 is located. 24 Q. 25 the phone have to be making calls or using data for the And what does a Stingray device actually do, if you My understanding is it can operate two ways—-it can look All right. And by And so it works by kind of So as, you know -- if the unit is -- If coming down And so by doing that and saying, okay, it's So two questions from that. Number one, does SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 116 of 256 365 1 Stingray to be able to find it? 2 A. It does not. 3 Q. All right. 4 on the day you were looking? 5 phone or was it set to kind of just glob up every phone in the 6 neighborhood? 7 A. 8 have the IMEI of the device we were looking for, and the -- the 9 goal and my request was that it be programmed in so that we 10 only pick up on that one and don't, as you say, glob off the 11 other phones in the area. 12 Q. 13 for the record. 14 that's assigned to every phone, right? 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. It was part of the T-Mobile responsive documents that we 18 received. 19 Q. 20 is—-would that also have told you what type of phone it was? 21 A. 22 because sometimes phone providers can provide assigned 23 equipment. 24 I recall with others. 25 records. And number two, do you remember how it was set Was it set only to target that So I didn't operate the equipment particularly, but we did All right. So IM -- again, some stuff maybe just to define IMEI is a unique identifying number series How did you get the IMEI for this specific phone? And would that also have told you—-from T-Mobile, that I don't recall seeing that. The only reason I'm pausing is I've seen it more frequently with the iPhones than But I don't recall seeing it on these SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Okay. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 117 of 256 366 1 Q. And would it tell you who the subscriber was to the 2 phone? 3 A. It does. 4 Q. Do you remember who that was? 5 A. Jonathan Herttua. 6 Q. And so you get to St. Albans and you get more drilled down 7 to where this phone might be, right? 8 MS. MURRAY: 9 particular question. 10 MR. BRILL: Your Honor, could we have a time for this Sure. 11 Q. On the day that you're using the Stingray device, you get 12 to St. Albans at some point by following the directions of the 13 Stingray, right? 14 A. 15 life and the filter on the map in 571 that we see before us, so 16 we already knew the area. 17 more in between, I guess, the sort of inaccuracy of the larger 18 circle we see here but not as accurate as the Stingray. 19 have some records that fall in between that can be requested 20 for a week's time frame that's included in the search warrant. 21 So prior to deploying the Stingray, or the cell site simulator, 22 we obtained those records and provided that to the operators as 23 well. 24 blocks within St. Albans, but still larger than where we ended 25 up. We were already in St. Albans, just from the pattern of Additionally, T-Mobile can provide They So we had a tighter radius, maybe down to four or five SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross And how close does it get? Page 118 of 256 1 Q. 2 of like three houses. 3 were given or was it broader than that? 4 A. 5 notes—-was 183-28 or 183-26, but because they were attached 6 homes in pretty tight proximity to one another, they said it 7 could go down as far as 24 or up as high as 30, so adjoining 8 units. 9 but it goes back and over, it could, you know -- you could be 10 in 24, but you end up behind 26, if that makes sense. 11 Q. 12 actually has the phone that day, right? 13 A. On September 8th, no, I did not. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And is that phone in Mr. Ilori's possession at any point 17 that you see? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What day was that? 20 A. I inferred it was with him on September 22nd, the day we 21 looked at the surveillance video from the coffee shop. 22 tracked the 0642 phone into Manhattan, it arrived in the area 23 of the coffee shop, our surveillance visually identified 24 Mr. Ilori exiting a car, with no other occupants; he came in 25 and made the purchase with the 5953 debit card, and I believe It was. 367 You showed us a picture earlier Was that actually the range that you The range I recall giving—-I'd have to refer to my And not knowing the layout, you know, if you're in one And you don't conduct any sort of search to determine who And do you ever find that phone? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 As we Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 119 of 256 368 1 for the -- that was the first time in the investigation that we 2 saw the phone and the money actually coming together, which, 3 you know, as I said in the beginning, you follow the phone, 4 follow the money, to try to determine ownership, then now we 5 can see both -- 6 Q. 7 point but you don't see it in his possession, correct? 8 A. I don't see it. 9 Q. All right. 10 right? 11 A. We do not. 12 Q. When do you find the 0642 phone? 13 you find it? 14 A. 15 October 8th. 16 Q. Was the phone activated at that point? 17 A. I believe it was on, but I don't recall. 18 the notes, either my notes or some of my colleagues' notes. 19 20 So you inferred that was possibly in his possession at that You don't conduct a search on that day either, The actual phone, when do When we search Mr. Ilori's person on the morning of THE COURT: All right. Mr. Brill, we need to find a breaking point. 21 MR. BRILL: This is fine, Judge. 22 THE COURT: All right. 23 24 25 I'd have to check We can stop. Then we'll take our lunch recess now. Let me just remind you, Special Agent Lidsky, you remain under oath and should not discuss your testimony, now SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 120 of 256 369 that you're on cross, during the break, all right? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 THE COURT: Understood, Judge. Jurors, please leave your notebooks on 4 your chairs. 5 or do any research over the break. 6 back at 1:45. Have a good lunch break. All right? Do not discuss the case And I will see everyone Thank you. 7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 8 (Jury not present) 9 THE COURT: 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: Please be seated, everyone else. 12 All right. Is there anything we need to discuss, from 13 Rise for the jury. All right. You are excused, sir. Thank you, ma'am. the government? 14 MS. MURRAY: No, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: Mr. Brill? 16 MR. BRILL: No, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: Okay. 18 Great. All right. Everyone, have a good lunch and I'll see you back shortly before 1:45 then. 19 Thank you to our court reporters. 20 THE REPORTER: 21 (Luncheon recess) Thank you. 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 1:53 p.m. Page 121 of 256 3 (In open court; jury not present) 4 THE COURT: Are we ready to move forward? 5 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 6 THE COURT: Mr. Brill? 7 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Okay. Special Agent Lidsky, do you want 9 to come up here so we're ready to go. 10 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 11 (Jury present) 12 THE COURT: 13 I notice some of you are wearing coats. 14 THE JURORS: Yes. 15 THE COURT: Yes? 16 Thank you. Rise for the jury. All right. Please be seated, everyone. All right. Are you cold? Ms. Dempsey, can we see if we can -- 17 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 18 THE COURT: 19 370 know why. Yes. It is always very cold in here. I don't Maybe to keep us all awake. 20 Mr. Brill, are you ready to proceed? 21 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. Thank you. 22 BY MR. BRILL: 23 Q. Good afternoon again. 24 A. Good afternoon again. 25 Q. As you were conducting your investigation as you explained SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 122 of 256 371 1 to us, the images that kept popping up on IDs and screenshots 2 that you saw were all images of Chris Recamier, right; on the 3 driver's licenses, for example, on the Robinhood screenshot 4 identification, and other things of that nature, correct? 5 A. To the extent that we've discussed thus far, yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 fraudulent loan application with Mr. Ilori's photo on it? 8 A. Loan application? 9 Q. When you first saw Mr. Ilori that first time that you 10 described to us, you didn't know who he was, right? 11 A. At which time, please? 12 Q. The first time that you encountered him, during your first 13 surveillance that you described to us, the first time you 14 actually physically saw him. 15 A. 16 see him -- or I'm sorry, September 8th, I didn't physically see 17 him. 18 Q. 19 Was there ever an ID photo submitted along with any Not that I'm aware of, no. If you're talking about September 20th, I didn't physically All right. I'll withdraw the question. When you -- you said that when you saw -- when you 20 were with your team and you weren't actually conducting actual 21 surveillance, you saw one of the vehicles parked, correct? 22 A. That's correct, yes. 23 Q. Which one was that? 24 A. That was on September 20, 2021, and it was a black 25 Mitsubishi Outlander SUV. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 123 of 256 372 1 Q. There was nobody in the driver's seat then, correct? 2 A. Not one that I recall seeing. 3 where I didn't really, you know, get a chance to observe fully, 4 so it's possible there was somebody in the driver's seat and I 5 just -- I just didn't see if -- 6 Q. 7 you could see, on September 20th in the passenger's seat, 8 correct? 9 A. 10 visibility into anyone in the back seat. 11 Q. 12 you had seen either person associated with this investigation, 13 either Mr. -- withdrawn. 14 Again, that was the event And there was a white male that you could see, as far as Correct, in the front passenger's seat, and I had no Okay. Prior to that -- was September 20th the first time When was the first time you actually saw Mr. Recamier 15 in person with regard to this investigation? 16 A. I believe it was September the 8th. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. That was on Eighth Street around Broadway. 19 Q. And he was getting into the passenger side of a vehicle? 20 A. That's when I saw him walking on the street and he 21 eventually got into the front passenger seat of the white Jeep 22 Grand Cherokee. 23 Q. 24 Cherokee with the Maryland plates—-not to be confused with 25 yours—-you determined how as to who owned that vehicle? Okay. And just remind me of the context there. And just talking briefly about the white Jeep Grand SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 124 of 256 373 1 A. From running the license plate through Maryland Department 2 of Motor Vehicles, it came back to an Avis Budget Group 3 ownership, or -- 4 Q. 5 vehicle was rented? 6 A. 7 associated with that rental. 8 Q. 9 actually rented that vehicle? 10 A. 11 determined to be a fraudulent driver's license, fraudulent 12 information. 13 Q. 14 right? 15 A. The real Gerald Brown? 16 Q. Well, somewhere in his early 60s, right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. If you live to 120. 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. And the driver's license, though, reflected that age, or at 21 least that date of birth, right? 22 A. Yes, it was consistent with that, yes. 23 Q. All right. 24 male in his 30s, correct? 25 A. And did you investigate the circumstances of how that Yes. We submitted a subpoena for all of the records Could you determine, based upon your investigation, who It was rented under the name of Gerald Brown, but that was Sure. Gerald Brown was a middle-aged white male, though, Yes. Middle or -- I'd say middle. That's middle. Was not consistent with an African American It was not. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Page 125 of 256 374 1 Q. 2 obviously you were present here in court and heard some of the 3 testimony as well, was it your understanding that the policy of 4 Avis was not -- was to rent only to the person who was 5 reflected on the driver's license? 6 A. Yes, I do recall that. 7 Q. With respect to the Mercedes, who purchased that -- or 8 leased it, I should say? 9 A. 10 Hockenberry. 11 Q. 12 All right. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross And based upon your investigation, and The name was Etudia (ph) Software Engineering and Thomas J. And who, as reflected on the -- withdrawn. Was there an ID presented to Silver Star Mercedes from 13 the person purporting to be Thomas J. Hockenberry? 14 A. 15 included with the application or documents I received from 16 Mercedes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. There was, yes. 19 Q. And that was Mr. Recamier's picture? 20 A. It was Mr. Recamier's picture with Mr. Hockenberry's 21 information, yes. 22 Q. 23 leased that vehicle, the Mercedes, went through the actual 24 leasing process? 25 Yes, I assume it was presented. There was one in the -- And there was a picture with that? And based upon your investigation, was it Mr. Recamier who MS. MURRAY: Objection. Calls for speculation. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 126 of 256 375 1 Q. Let me be more precise. 2 A. Please. 3 Q. How deeply or how specifically did you get into the 4 investigation of how the Mercedes was leased? 5 A. 6 unable to get -- talk at length with the sales rep. 7 Q. Was there any surveillance video? 8 A. There was none that we were able to obtain. 9 Q. Okay. 10 who appears on the leasing paperwork is a white, middle-aged 11 male, right? 12 A. Yes, that's correct. 13 Q. Okay. 14 an African American male in his 30s, correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. In reviewing the video for the Purves Street apartment, did 17 you note the comings and -- the time of the comings and goings 18 of Mr. Recamier? 19 back and forth. 20 A. 21 what we reviewed, 'cause again, we were only reviewing 22 event-specific or certain dates and time snippets relevant to 23 the investigation, so we weren't looking for, you know, when 24 does somebody arrive, when is the last person going home, 25 things like that, so I'm not sure I could answer that to Thank you. Oh, we asked some questions of the dealership, but we were The simple question, I guess, is: The individual And again, not to, you know, be repetitive, but not Now you said you saw him on occasion coming I'm not sure I could -- I can't really answer that based on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 127 of 256 376 1 your -- fully. 2 Q. 3 to search the apartment, around what time was that? 4 A. It was around 9:45 p.m. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. He was alone there. 7 Q. And based upon other aspects of your investigation, did you 8 determine that Mr. Recamier had been alone in the apartment on 9 other occasions? 10 A. Yes, that's a fair characterization. 11 Q. Who, based upon your investigation -- well, under what name 12 was the apartment rented? 13 A. Mark S. Heffron. 14 Q. And again, Mr. Heffron, according to the information 15 provided to the rental agency or company, was a white 16 middle-aged male, correct? 17 A. 18 the license, but the picture was obviously Mr. Recamier, and 19 the real Mark S. Heffron is a middle-aged white male. 20 Q. 21 Mr. Heffron was listed as the sole occupant of the apartment 22 when he rented it, right? 23 A. All right. When you encountered Mr. Recamier when you went And he was alone there? Well, yes, and he is. Okay. I don't recall race being listed on The person who -- Mr. Recamier, you know, posing as On the rental application? I believe, yes, that's correct. 24 MR. BRILL: One moment, please. 25 THE COURT: Sure. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 2 MR. BRILL: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 128 of 256 377 Ms. Loftus, could you put up Exhibit 530, please. I still have my circle up there from before. 3 4 BY MR. BRILL: 5 Q. 6 recovered from? 7 A. I'm sorry. 8 Q. Oh, I'm sorry. 9 A. It's coming up now. 10 Q. There you go. 11 A. These were recovered from the trunk of the Mercedes-Benz 12 the morning of September the 8th, 2021. 13 Q. 14 Mercedes? 15 A. 16 the surveillance team did either. 17 can't recall an instance where Mr. Recamier was also in the 18 Mercedes. 19 Q. How many different locations did you see the Mercedes in -- 20 A. Three come to mind. 21 Q. -- Manhattan? 22 A. Lower Manhattan; Long Island City; and in St. Albans, 23 Queens, New York. 24 Q. 25 Island City? Agent Lidsky, where, if you know, were these items I don't have anything on the screen. How many times did you observe Mr. Recamier in the I didn't at all, and I'm just thinking if any members of I'm not sure that we -- I So near the -- was that the Purves Street apartment in Long SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 129 of 256 1 A. 2 various places around the apartment. 3 Q. 4 driving Mr. Recamier? 5 A. I did not, no. 6 Q. But there was a previous instance I think we just talked 7 about where you saw that happening with the white Jeep, 8 correct? 9 A. 10 was unable to see the driver; and I saw the white male in the 11 passenger seat of the Mitsubishi Outlander, but I did not see 12 the driver. 13 Q. 14 me actually ask you that. 378 Yes, parked around, it's off-street parking there, so in Okay. So there was never a time when you saw Mr. Ilori Well, I saw Mr. Recamier getting into the white Jeep, but I So other than on video, that is, being -- withdrawn. 15 Let In what instances, if any, did you see Mr. Ilori and 16 Mr. Recamier together? 17 A. 18 things, but there were -- there was an instance where we 19 observed both gentlemen in a vehicle. 20 times enter and exit the apartment on Purves Street in Long 21 Island City. 22 was one. 23 Q. 24 vehicle, but you personally did not? 25 A. Surveillance, not me, and I don't want to get ahead of We saw them on multiple I can't recall another time. No, that's okay. I'm sorry if there And so you said "we saw them" in the I did not, no. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 130 of 256 1 Q. 2 saw later on, or is it just that someone told you? 3 A. There was surveillance that I was advised of, yes. 4 Q. That you saw, or someone told you? And was there some sort of surveillance of that that you 5 6 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. Asked and answered. 7 THE COURT: Overruled. 8 A. Like saw -- 9 Q. Well, did you actually -- so there's a question of, you 10 know, whether it's hearsay. 11 tell you about it? 12 A. I've seen pictures. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. The black Mitsubishi Outlander. 15 Q. From a different day than when you saw the white male who 16 you couldn't identify? 17 A. Yes. No, I think it was two days later. 18 Q. Okay. As part of your investigation, did you conduct any 19 sort of financial investigation into Mr. Ilori -- 20 A. Outside of the scope of this -- 21 Q. -- into his personal assets or holdings? 22 379 Did you see it or did someone just And what vehicle were they in? THE COURT: All right. I'm going to caution you each 23 to stop stepping on each other, all right? Let Mr. Brill 24 finish the question, and you need to let Special Agent Lidsky 25 finish his answer. A few times you've stepped on his answer. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross 1 MR. BRILL: I'm sorry. 2 THE COURT: All right? 3 THE WITNESS: Page 131 of 256 380 Yes, your Honor. 4 A. I'm sorry. Could you just repeat your full question. 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. Thank you. 7 Q. At any point during your investigation did you conduct a 8 financial investigation into Mr. Ilori's personal assets or 9 holdings? 10 A. I don't recall that we did, no. 11 Q. You said that -- or you referred to the home in St. Albans 12 as his home at one point; is that accurate? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you know who owns that home? 15 A. I don't know who owns it, no. 16 Q. Do you know if the -- does Mr. Ilori own it or rent it? 17 you know? 18 choice. 19 document that might be? Do I mean, does he -- as in -- I'm not giving you a I'm saying, does he even have his name on whatever 20 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Sustained. 22 MR. BRILL: I'll rephrase it. 23 Q. Do you know what Mr. Ilori's relationship is to that home? 24 A. I -- 25 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. Vague. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 THE COURT: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 132 of 256 381 Overruled. 2 A. I believe I do, but I'm not -- 3 Q. Without guessing. 4 A. Oh, without guessing. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. -- point. 7 Q. Based upon your investigation? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What do you believe his relationship is? 10 A. So my -- my belief is, based on what I've -- I've 11 researched, he has some kind of relationship, I believe spouse, 12 to the -- to a person that lives there. 13 "owns," because a lot of properties are owned by one person but 14 rented or leased to another. 15 But the vehicle registration comes back to a female at 183-26 16 Dunlop Avenue, and her information is also associated with that 17 property, and my understanding, or my belief, is that Mr. Ilori 18 is somehow related, I believe spousal, to the person who lives 19 there. 20 Q. 21 that Mr. Ilori might have? 22 A. I did not. 23 Q. Do you have any other information from any other source as 24 to whether Mr. Ilori contributes to paying, whether in rent or 25 in mortgage, to the home that you just referred to? I have some reference -- I'm tentative to say I'm not certain of the ownership. Did you obtain any financial records from any bank account SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 133 of 256 382 1 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Basis? 3 MS. MURRAY: Calls for speculation. 4 THE COURT: No, it doesn't. 5 other information. 6 A. 7 No, I do not. 8 Q. 9 about the extent of Mr. Ilori's assets? 10 A. I assume discounting what -- 11 Q. Well, understanding your belief that Mr. Ilori was involved 12 in this series of frauds, do you have -- so putting that aside, 13 obviously, do you have any information that there are things of 14 value in Mr. Ilori's name? 15 A. 16 investigation or the assets I've traced in this investigation, 17 I do not. I am not aware. 18 Q. And the assets that you traced in this investigation 19 are not in Mr. Ilori's name, correct? 20 A. They are not. 21 Q. They are in the names of individuals who, from what we've 22 seen, their identities have been stolen, correct? 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. Okay. 25 identities have been stolen, to the extent that you're able to It asks does he have any As to whether he financially contributes to the property? Do you have, based upon your investigation, any information So outside of the monies that I've traced in this Okay. And just to be clear, the individuals whose SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 134 of 256 383 1 connect them with a picture, that picture is of Mr. Recamier, 2 not of Mr. Ilori, correct? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. At any point did you see Mr. Ilori make any large -- 5 withdrawn as to large. 6 or withdrawals? 7 A. Visually obvious? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. I did not. 10 Q. Okay. 11 in the BRS Consulting, for example, the Capital One records, 12 there seemed to be some ATM transactions, correct? 13 A. There were, yes. 14 Q. From what I understand, ATMs take photos or video of people 15 at the ATM usually, right? 16 A. They do. 17 Q. All right. 18 any of the ATM transactions? 19 A. I did not. 20 Q. Did you at any point either get consent to search or secure 21 a search warrant for that home in St. Albans? 22 A. I did not. 23 Q. Do you have any information from any other source that 24 Mr. -- withdrawn -- that there were high-value objects in that 25 home? Did you see him make any bank deposits Throughout the financial records, there were some -- At any point did you secure photo or video from SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 135 of 256 384 1 A. I do not, no. 2 Q. Just to be thorough, with regard to the other residents of 3 that home, did you secure their financial information at any 4 point? 5 A. I did not. 6 Q. All right. 7 anyone related in any way to Mr. Ilori had significant assets 8 in their name? 9 A. 10 obtain those records, so I can't answer. 11 Q. 12 from any other source. 13 A. Oh, I'm sorry. 14 Q. Okay. 15 information to show that Mr. Ilori transferred funds from 16 some -- some funds that he controlled to friends or family of 17 his? 18 question. 19 A. Can you provide some additional context. 20 Q. Sure. 21 in control of assets as part of this fraud, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. All right. 24 from assets that you believe to be in Mr. Ilori's control to 25 other people, friends or family of Mr. Ilori? So do you have any information to show that I -- I'm unable to answer that. I didn't -- I didn't Well, I was asking you if you had any other information I do not. Again, just to be thorough, did you have any Again, discounting Mr. Recamier for the purpose of this It's understandably your position that Mr. Ilori was Based upon that, did you see transfers of funds SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 136 of 256 385 1 A. I did not, not with that direct connection, no. 2 Q. Did you recover any significant amounts of cash from any 3 place under Mr. Ilori's control? 4 A. I did not. 5 Q. Did you recover a significant amount of cash from Mr. Ilori 6 when you searched him? 7 A. No, I did not. 8 Q. And I asked kind of a similar version of this question, but 9 again, just to be thorough, did you recover or determine that 10 Mr. Ilori was in possession of any sort of luxury items or 11 luxury vehicles, anything of that nature, up to the point that 12 you arrested him? 13 A. Outside of the Mercedes-Benz, no. 14 Q. All right. 15 his name, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And (B) from what we can determine, was leased by somebody 18 else, a middle-aged white male, correct? 19 A. And the Mercedes-Benz, again, (A) was not in Per the paperwork, yes, correct. 20 MR. BRILL: Give me one second. 21 Q. Similar to the fraudulent loan applications, the bank 22 accounts, brokerage accounts, and other accounts that were 23 opened, to the extent that you could determine who opened them, 24 were they all opened by someone that was a middle-aged white 25 male? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross 1 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Sustained. 3 MR. BRILL: I'll rephrase it. Page 137 of 256 386 4 Q. 5 received what you believe to be fraudulently obtained funds in 6 this investigation? 7 A. I just have to do some quick math in my head. 8 Q. Take your time. 9 A. Well, I think maybe to get out -- for all of the ones where 10 I had visibility, where I had a photo identification to 11 accompany the application or initiation of the accounts, they 12 were all middle-aged white men. 13 Q. 14 accounts that you were able to determine, you were able to, 15 through some subpoenas, get login information for those 16 accounts, right? 17 A. Yes, that's correct. 18 Q. Okay. 19 for those accounts to the movements of Mr. Recamier and 20 Mr. Ilori. 21 22 23 How many accounts, if you can recall, did you determine Okay. And then with regard to the login activity for the And were you able to correlate the login information Well, I need to ask you a different question first. Let me withdraw that. You had previously testified that to your knowledge, 24 the login information that we looked at so far is correlated to 25 an IP address, right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross 1 A. 2 mind looking at one of the charts again. 3 seen a typo, in fact, but -- 4 Q. 5 Robinhood or the general one? 6 A. The general one, if possible. 7 Q. 740, I believe. Page 138 of 256 387 Yes, and I think if we're getting back to that, I wouldn't Sure. 8 Okay. I think I may have And you wanted to look at the one from Yeah. 9 A. Yeah, I think, when you brought this up earlier -- sorry to 10 take away from what you were just asking, but I think there's a 11 typo in that IP. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Yeah, if we could look at the Spectrum record to confirm. 14 But anyway, if you could repeat the -- 15 Q. Sure. 16 A. That IP address? 17 Q. No, no. 18 A. Yes, I'm sorry. 19 Q. And you testified earlier that there were a number of other 20 devices recovered from the apartment at Purves Street, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Were there any -- and there were some devices that you 23 testified were recovered from Mr. Ilori, right? 24 A. That is correct as well. 25 Q. Is that the entire universe of devices or were there I recall the last number being a 23. Well, we have other records that -- So this is with regard to a single phone, correct? So you look at the top here, links to -This correlates to the 0642 number, yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 139 of 256 388 1 devices recovered somewhere else? 2 A. 3 apartment, from Mr. Ilori, and then one from the trunk and one 4 from the console of the car. 5 Q. 6 this. 7 A. Yes, thank you. 8 Q. So at some point were you able to correlate logins to the 9 various accounts to the various devices or no? I believe that's all we got in this case from the Okay. I think we can take this down, right? We don't need Withdraw. 10 Earlier you had said that you couldn't necessarily 11 correlate a login to an actual device; is that fair to say? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. 14 device, were you at least able to correlate a login to an 15 account to an IP address? 16 A. Yes, if -- if I could explain a bit. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. So the IP addresses -- so T-Mobile, what we were just 19 looking at, were what's known as IPv4 formatting that's four 20 numbers. 21 tell us what device that was assigned to. 22 not there. 23 believe most of those -- I think 172 is a T-Mobile IP. 24 that correlates to the apartment is fixed to the apartment, so 25 I -- I don't know if I misunderstood you or that -- So without being able to correlate to an actual T-Mobile is not -- they don't have the ability to So the ability is It wasn't for lack of looking; it's not there. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 I The 67 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Q. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Page 140 of 256 389 It was just a general question, like does -- 2 THE COURT: Don't interrupt. 3 MR. BRILL: I'm sorry. I get excited sometimes. 4 A. So the IP address assigned to the apartment for the period 5 from May to July—-not recalling the exact dates—-that was 6 fixed. 7 broadcast on WiFi, you could plug into the router, you could -- 8 but that was a fixed address. 9 They can change daily; they can change -- mobile devices can 10 change hourly. 11 Robinhood or one of the other financials, whatever login 12 they -- they noted with the event, they wouldn't really 13 correlate that back to a device, and we were unable to as well. 14 So aside from the ones that come back to the apartment or 15 another fixed address, no, it's not -- I was not able to do it. 16 Q. 17 question. That was assigned to that apartment. Okay. It could be The mobile addresses change. So I -- I'm not sure I can -- so whatever So I'm sorry. Let me just ask a slightly clarifying 18 Can you at least narrow down location from an IP 19 address or that's not possible, from a mobile IP address? 20 A. Of the -- 21 Q. Of the device that's logging in. 22 A. So it's possible, in certain circumstances, yes. 23 Q. Okay. 24 a general location from where a device was logging in to these 25 accounts? Did you do that here? Did you attempt to determine SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 A. MS. MURRAY: 390 Your Honor, can we clarify either a device or these accounts, please. 4 THE COURT: Yes. 5 MR. BRILL: Sure. 6 Page 141 of 256 So -- 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Q. Can you break it down. We had a list -- 7 MR. BRILL: Let's just pull up the Robinhood for one 8 second, so we can just use something concrete. 9 believe? 10 Q. So the IP addresses are on the left, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Okay. 13 just ask you one thing while I remember it. 14 Was it 354, I I'm just going to use this as an example. MR. BRILL: Let me Ms. Loftus, could you just go forward 15 above 196 for a second. 16 Q. 17 on -- it was Exhibit 354-A, yeah, 354-A. 18 that up. 19 fact that three -- that this IP address was in Queens. 20 that actually mean that the IP address is in Queens or do you 21 know what that actually means? 22 A. 23 where it's derived from, but I -- I don't rely on these to -- I 24 just don't use this column. 25 Q. I was just noticing here, you had previously talked about, We don't have to put But you had basically -- there was highlighted the My understanding is these are approximated. Okay. All right. Does I'm not sure Because correct me if I'm wrong, but SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Page 142 of 256 391 Dorchester is in Boston? THE COURT: 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Cross Q. Is that your question? Is it in Boston, if you know? 4 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: If you know. 6 A. 7 one in the UK. 8 I think there is a Dorchester in Boston. I think there's I'm sure there are others. MR. BRILL: All right. So just to pop over briefly 9 now, if we could look at 354-A for one second. 10 Q. 11 quick question about it. 12 Clear. 13 Thank you. Just based upon what you just said, let me just ask you a 14 Q. 15 column where it says Queens in your investigations? 16 A. I did not in this investigation. 17 Q. Okay. 18 Would it be fair to say that you just don't rely on this Thank you. MR. BRILL: All right. Could we just pop back to 354, please. 19 Q. So just going back to my IP address question, 20 looking at the IP addresses on the left side here, this way, 21 from the 172 IP addresses you say you believe were assigned to 22 T-Mobile -- 23 A. I believe those are T-Mobile addresses, yes. 24 Q. And based upon that, is there any other information that 25 you derived from these IP addresses about the location of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect 1 devices when they logged in to Robinhood? 2 A. With the exception of line 15, no. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Page 143 of 256 392 Thank you. MR. BRILL: We can take that down. 5 Q. Based upon your investigation, would it be fair to say that 6 you do not have the ability to specifically say who was logging 7 in to any of the accounts in question that we've discussed so 8 far at any point, right? 9 but you don't know the individuals who did that, right? 10 A. No, I can't tell who was on the keyboard. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Sure. You could say the device is logged in Give me one more moment. 13 MR. BRILL: Okay. Thank you. 14 THE COURT: All right. 15 Redirect? 16 MS. MURRAY: 17 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 18 BY MS. MURRAY: 19 Q. 20 there. I have nothing further. Thank you, Mr. Brill. Yes, your Honor. Thank you. Special Agent Lidsky, I'd like to start near where we ended 21 First, you had identified during your 22 cross-examination that there was a typo in Government 23 Exhibit 740; is that correct? 24 A. 25 I believe there may have been, yes. MS. MURRAY: So Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 144 of 256 1 Government Exhibit 202, which is in evidence. 2 Q. 3 were discussing relating to the IP address in question. 4 you read the IP address listed there. 5 A. 6 And Special Agent Lidsky, this is an Apple record that we Can 67.245.59.23. MS. MURRAY: I'd like to approach the witness with 7 what I've marked for identification as Government 8 Exhibit 740-C, for corrected. 9 then I'll bring it to the witness. THE COURT: 10 393 I'm going to show Mr. Brill, and All right. 11 Q. 12 Exhibit 740-C and your review of the source records underlying 13 that summary chart, does Government Exhibit 740-C now correct 14 that typographical error? 15 A. 16 Special Agent Lidsky, based on your review of Government It does. Thank you. MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, I'd move to admit Government 17 Exhibit 740-C, which is the corrected version of the prior 18 Government Exhibit 740. 19 MR. BRILL: No objection. 20 THE COURT: All right. 21 (Government's Exhibit 740-C received in evidence) 22 MS. MURRAY: Thank you. 23 THE COURT: Is that replacing 740? 24 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Okay. It will be admitted. Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 145 of 256 394 1 BY MS. MURRAY: 2 Q. 3 some questions on cross-examination about Government 4 Exhibit 530, which was a summary chart, and in answering, I 5 believe you mentioned that you had searched the Mercedes on 6 September 8, 2021. 7 questions? 8 A. I do. 9 Q. So just to clarify, the date that you searched the Mercedes 10 was October 8, 2021; is that right? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. I want to go to the IPs again where Mr. Brill left off. 13 Special Agent Lidsky, a small point. Mr. Brill asked you Do you remember being asked those I'm sorry. The date is wrong. It was October 8th. Still looking at this exhibit, Government Exhibit 202, 14 so this reflects connections to an IP address, the 15 67.245.59.23, correct? 16 A. It does. 17 MS. MURRAY: 18 look at the period. 19 Q. 20 relating to? 21 A. 22 And Ms. Loftus, if we can go -- first What period are these connections or is this connection On this record, it's from June 29th to June 29th, 2021. MS. MURRAY: If we could go to the next page, please, 23 Ms. Loftus. 24 Q. 25 with this Apple account that connected via that IP address? And what was the customer name and email address associated SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 A. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 146 of 256 John Herttua, herttuajonathan1957@gmail.com. MS. MURRAY: 2 And the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. 3 Actually, the final page, please, page 4. 4 Q. 5 Apple account that connected to the Apple account via that IP 6 address? 7 A. And the phone number associated with that John Herttua 646-575-0642. 8 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if you could please now pull 9 up Government Exhibit 201. 10 in evidence. 11 Q. 12 this the same IP address that is connected via this Apple 13 account? 14 A. It is. 15 Q. And what date is this connection? 16 A. This was on May 7, 2021. This is another Apple record that's Looking at this, Special Agent Lidsky, can you tell us, is MS. MURRAY: 17 We could go to the next page, please, 18 Ms. Loftus. 19 Q. 20 this date? 21 A. The name of Dayo Ilori. 22 Q. What is the email address associated with that IP 23 connection? 24 A. 25 395 And what Apple account connected via that IP address on Dayodfine01@gmail.com. MS. MURRAY: If we could go to the next page, please, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 147 of 256 396 Ms. Loftus. Okay. 2 The final page. 3 Q. And on this final page, do we see here again reflected that 4 same IP address for this connection to a Dayo Ilori, Applicant? 5 A. Yes. 6 MS. MURRAY: You can take that down, Ms. Loftus. 7 Thank you. 8 Q. 9 questions about certain city or county or other geographical 10 information reflected in Robinhood records. 11 that? 12 A. I do. 13 Q. And you stated, I believe, that you don't rely on that 14 information in this investigation; was that right? 15 A. Now, Special Agent Lidsky, Mr. Brill had asked you some Do you recall That's correct. MS. MURRAY: 16 Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 17 Government Exhibit 241. And zoom in on the content. 18 Q. 19 is subscriber information for the actual IP address; is that 20 correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. And so this document reflects the actual location 23 information for that IP address; is that right? 24 A. Yes, it does. 25 Q. In this case what is the billing and service address for Now, Special Agent Lidsky, we looked at this before. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 This Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 that IP? 2 A. 3 Island City. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 148 of 256 397 The address is 4441 Purves Street, Apartment 1805, in Long 4 MS. MURRAY: And Ms. Loftus, if we could just look 5 down again and review the IP history. 6 brief earlier. 7 Q. 8 the 67.245.59.23, can you remind us again during what time 9 period that IP address was assigned to the Purves Street 10 apartment, 1805. 11 A. From May 7, 2021, to July 7, 2021. 12 Q. And May 7th is the date that we just observed that the Dayo 13 Ilori Apple account was connected to via this IP; is that 14 right? 15 A. Looking at the connection to this IP address of interest, That is correct. MS. MURRAY: 16 We did review this in You can take that down, Ms. Loftus. 17 Thank you. 18 Q. 19 cross-examination about the 0642 number and other numbers that 20 might have been potentially of interest in your investigation. 21 Do you recall that? 22 A. I do. 23 Q. And you indicated that that number was of interest to you 24 from the beginning of the investigation because it appeared on 25 the loan documentation that essentially started the Now, Special Agent Lidsky, you were asked some questions on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect 1 investigation; is that right? 2 A. Page 149 of 256 398 That is correct. MS. MURRAY: 3 Ms. Loftus, if we could publish 4 Government Exhibit 155, please, which is the loan application 5 in question, BRS Consulting. 6 And I'm not going to go through every page of the 7 document, but I just want to look briefly at the phone numbers 8 that are listed as associated with the borrower on this 9 application. So if we could zoom in, Ms. Loftus, on page 1, on the 10 11 phone number that's associated with Jonathan Herttua. 12 BY MS. MURRAY: 13 Q. What is that phone number? 14 A. 646-575-0642. 15 Q. And with the next couple of questions, for ease, if you 16 would like, if it's the same number, you can just say "the 0642 17 number." 18 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could go to page 6 of 19 this exhibit. 20 Q. And the mobile phone number there, Special Agent Lidsky? 21 A. 0642. 22 MS. MURRAY: 23 Perhaps I meant 8. 24 All right. 25 Q. Page 7, please, Ms. Loftus. Keep scrolling down. If we could go to page 13, please. And what is the phone number listed there as a business SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect 1 phone for BRS Consulting? 2 A. And finally, the next page, please, 4 Ms. Loftus. 5 Q. 6 Herttua, the owner of this company. 7 A. 8 And the phone number listed as associated with Jonathan 0642. MS. MURRAY: You can take that down. Thank you. 9 Q. 10 phone in connection with your investigation, which initiated 11 with this loan application, correct? 12 A. Because it was the number I saw, yes. 13 Q. So I'd like to look at Government Exhibit 372, the 14 subscriber records for this phone number. 15 399 0642. MS. MURRAY: 3 Page 150 of 256 So again, Special Agent Lidsky, you began to follow this And looking at this subscriber record, what is the 16 name of the listed subscriber? 17 A. Jonathan Herttua. 18 Q. And the activation date? 19 A. August 26, 2020. 20 Q. Now, Special Agent Lidsky, you were asked some questions on 21 cross-examination about what specific identifier or information 22 the control site simulator targeted. 23 A. I do. 24 Q. And I believe Mr. Brill had mentioned an IMEI number, and 25 you discussed that that was the target or the focus of the cell Do you recall that? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect 1 site simulator; is that right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. So looking down this page -- 4 MS. MURRAY: Page 151 of 256 If we could scroll down, Ms. Loftus. 400 Oh, 5 sorry. Scroll up, please. 6 Q. 7 if anything, is indicated there? 8 A. 0. 9 Q. Now, Special Agent Lidsky, your cell site simulator was a 10 warrant that was issued, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And do you recall which identifier or identifiers were 13 targeted by that warrant? 14 A. 15 that IMEI, but we discussed that unique identifier. 16 have been the IMSI, or the I-M-S-I, now that I'm looking at 17 these records. 18 Q. What is an IMSI? 19 A. It's another unique identifier, an International Mobile 20 Subscriber Identity, maybe. 21 definition. 22 Q. 23 recollection about what identifier specifically you targeted to 24 locate the 0642 phone using the cell site simulator? 25 A. -- there's an IMEI entry on the subscriber record. What, I think Mr. Brill and I discussed -- I may have mentioned That's okay. It may I'm sorry I don't have the Is there anything that would refresh your If I could see a copy of the warrant. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 152 of 256 1 MS. MURRAY: 2 If you could please publish for the witness, the Ms. Loftus, you could take this down. 3 Court, and Mr. Brill 3507-16-A. 4 Q. 5 Lidsky. 6 A. 7 Can you just take a quick look at that, Special Agent I see it. MS. MURRAY: You can take that down. Thank you. 8 Q. 9 you targeted for the cell site simulator? 10 A. It does. 11 Q. And what identifiers did you target? 12 A. It was the IMSI. 13 Q. And just to be clear, the IMSI for what? 14 A. For the 0642 phone. 15 Q. Is that the IMSI number that was reflected in Government 16 Exhibit 372, the subscriber records for the 0642 phone? 17 A. 18 love to see them side by side. 19 Q. 20 21 401 Does that refresh your recollection about what identifiers Well, since I've not done a great job of speculating, I'd Sure. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could pull up 3507-16-A alongside Government Exhibit 372. 22 THE COURT: And again, this is just for the witness? 23 MS. MURRAY: For purposes of -- yes, just the witness 24 25 and the parties, just for purposes of refreshing recollection. And you can take that down now. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect 1 BY MS. MURRAY: 2 Q. Have you had sufficient time to refresh? 3 A. Yes. 4 Page 153 of 256 Thank you. MS. MURRAY: We can take that down. 5 Q. 6 the 0642 number's IMSI as reflected in the subscriber 7 information? 8 A. It did. 9 Q. Now Mr. Brill asked you some questions about loan 10 applications and photos on IDs, and we had some discussion 11 about middle-aged people. 12 A. I do. 13 Q. Okay. 14 individual identities that were stolen and provided in 15 furtherance of the loans all contained pictures of 16 Mr. Recamier. 17 A. 18 402 So Special Agent Lidsky, did the cell site simulator target Do you recall that? And at one point Mr. Brill asked you if the Do you recall that? I do. MS. MURRAY: I'd like to look at Government 19 Exhibit 151 at page 17, please, Ms. Loftus. 20 Q. Special Agent Lidsky, do you recognize this? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. What is it? 23 A. This is another fake ID that was associated with another 24 PPP or EIDL loan that we hadn't discussed. 25 Q. So Special Agent Lidsky, this ID was submitted in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 154 of 256 403 1 connection with a loan application submitted in the name of M2 2 Gold Jet, and that was one of the loans that was on your loan 3 summary chart as being involved in your investigation. 4 recall that? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. And the individual who is shown in the photo on this ID, do 7 you recognize that to be Mr. Recamier? 8 A. I do not. 9 Q. Were you able to determine through your investigation, 10 based on the identifiers on this driver's license, that this 11 was a false ID or another case of identity theft? 12 A. Do you Yes, both. 13 MS. MURRAY: And if we could go to 160, please, 14 Ms. Loftus, page 43. 15 Q. Do you recognize this? 16 A. I do. 17 Q. What is it? 18 A. This is another ID that was associated with an application 19 for a government loan. 20 Q. 21 we looked at, which is to say one of the either funded or 22 attempted loans that was connected to this particular 23 investigation involving Mr. Recamier and Mr. Ilori? 24 A. It was. 25 Q. And looking at this image on this driver's license, And is that one of the loans that was on the summary chart SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 155 of 256 404 1 purported driver's license, is that an image of Mr. Recamier? 2 A. It is not. 3 Q. Based on your investigation into the identifiers reflected 4 on this particular driver's license, were you able to determine 5 that this was another fraudulent ID? 6 A. It is. 7 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take that 8 down. 9 Q. 10 believe that you referred to it on cross-examination as more of 11 an office than a home; is that correct? 12 A. I believe I said that, yes. 13 Q. Did you believe that somebody may have been living there, 14 however? 15 A. 16 were clothing -- 17 Q. And so -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Sorry. 20 A. I'm sorry. 21 Q. And so based on -- based on your search of that apartment, 22 on October 7, 2021, is it fair to say that you'd characterize 23 that as an apartment that was used in part as an office, based 24 on your training and experience? 25 A. With respect to the Purves Street apartment, 1805, I It was certainly possible. I mean, there was a bed, there That was on me. Yes, that would be a fair characterization. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect 1 Q. 2 when you executed the search. 3 MS. MURRAY: Page 156 of 256 405 I just want to take a look at the state of that apartment If you could pull up Government 4 Exhibit 582, please, Ms. Loftus. 5 Q. What part of the apartment does this photo show? 6 A. It shows the -- a corner of the living room and my leg. 7 Q. Do you recall whether there was a television or any 8 furniture in the living room of this apartment when you 9 executed the search? 10 A. 11 corner, not seen here, but aside from the lamp and the shredder 12 and the copier on the floor, or printer, that was it. 13 see the modem and the router and the speaker. 14 There was not. I believe there was a stool in the opposite MS. MURRAY: And if we could publish Government 15 Exhibit 584, please, Ms. Loftus. 16 581, perhaps. 17 Q. 18 described? 19 A. It is. 20 Q. Thank you. You can Is this the other side of the living room that you just 21 MS. MURRAY: We can take that down. 22 And if we could publish Government Exhibit 571. 23 Q. So Special Agent Lidsky, you were asked some questions on 24 cross-examination about seeing the comings and goings of 25 certain people into apartment 1805, both based on physical SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Redirect Page 157 of 256 406 1 surveillance and on the video surveillance that you collected. 2 Do you recall that? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. And based on your investigation, do you recall having seen 5 Mr. Ilori come and go from the apartment at various times? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. Now with respect to where Mr. Ilori or at least the user of 8 the 0642 phone slept, what, if anything, was your determination 9 or understanding of where the user of the 0642 phone slept each 10 night? 11 A. In the St. Albans area of Queens, New York. 12 Q. And that was your understanding based on in part electronic 13 surveillance; is that right? 14 A. Certainly in part. 15 Q. Now what is your understanding of who was arrested with the 16 0642 phone? 17 A. I'd say almost entirely. Mr. Ilori was. 18 MS. MURRAY: If you could take that down, please, 19 Ms. Loftus. 20 Q. 21 possession of the 0642 phone, what was Chris Recamier's status? 22 A. He was in jail. 23 Q. And when had he been arrested relative to Mr. Ilori's 24 arrest? 25 A. And at the time of the defendant's arrest, when he was in The night before, around October 7th. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Q. 2 apartment, 1805. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross Page 158 of 256 407 Just a few more questions about the Purves Street We reviewed the records from the leasing company and 3 4 observed that there had been two key fobs. Do you recall that? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. And with the assistance of a Court-provided magnifying 7 glass, we were able to see the numbers listed on those key 8 fobs. 9 A. I do. 10 Q. So one of the key fobs was found in apartment 1805 where 11 Chris Recamier was when you executed the search; is that right? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. And the number associated with that key fob matched one of 14 the key fobs assigned to the Mark Heffron lease on that 15 apartment 1805; is that right? 16 A. That is also correct. 17 Q. And the other key fob that was assigned to apartment 1805 18 was found on Mr. Ilori's person the day after Chris Recamier 19 was arrested; is that right? 20 A. That is also correct. 21 Q. And based on the leasing company's records, those were the 22 only two key fobs assigned to that apartment; is that correct? 23 A. Do you recall that? Yes. 24 MS. MURRAY: If I may just have a moment, your Honor? 25 THE COURT: Sure. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross Page 159 of 256 408 1 MS. MURRAY: No further redirect. Thank you. 2 THE COURT: All right. 3 Any further cross? 4 MR. BRILL: 5 RECROSS EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. BRILL: 7 Q. 8 Street apartment, were there other photos taken that we haven't 9 seen of the state of the apartment, for example, in the 10 bedroom? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And what was the state of the bedroom? 13 A. With regard to? 14 Q. Did it have furniture, for example? 15 A. It had a bed, which I think was an air mattress, on 16 something, maybe a bed stand, or I believe there was a 17 nightstand as well. 18 entirety of the evening. 19 pictures -- 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. -- and clarify. 22 Q. Were there clothes in the closet? 23 A. There were some, yes. 24 Q. At some point did you become aware that there had been a 25 previous flood in the apartment? Thank you. Just a few. Agent Lidsky, with regard to the search of the Purves I was in the living room for almost the I'd have to -- I could look at the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross Page 160 of 256 409 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do you know, as a result of the flood, if there was any 3 damage to the apartment? 4 A. I don't know about the damage. 5 Q. Okay. 6 that we just looked at, first of all, both of them were still 7 middle-aged men, right? 8 A. They were. 9 Q. White men, right? 10 A. Yes, correct. 11 Q. Okay. 12 figure out who they were? 13 A. With regard to the IDs that were not of Mr. Recamier And as part of your investigation, did you ever I did not. 14 MR. BRILL: 15 Exhibit 201. 16 Q. 17 was just pulled up. 18 show? 19 20 Okay. Ms. Loftus, can we pull up This was something that we hadn't looked at before until it MS. MURRAY: Looking at this, what does this purport to Your Honor, objection to "purport." This is in evidence by stipulation of the parties. 21 MR. BRILL: Withdrawn. Sorry. 22 THE COURT: Rephrase, please, Mr. Brill. 23 MR. BRILL: Yes. 24 Q. What does it show? 25 A. This shows a sign-on to an Apple either iCloud or iTunes SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 account. 2 Q. Okay. Page 161 of 256 410 And the account was the -- MR. BRILL: 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross We can go down to the next page to show 4 that one. There we go. 5 Q. 6 associated with the iCloud account? 7 A. 8 the account that was logged into at the date and time from that 9 IP address on page 1. 10 Q. 11 associated with the iCloud account, not with the -- So this was the email address -- this is the email address I believe this is the email, customer name associated with Okay. So based upon your understanding, this was the email 12 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Let him finish. 14 question before you object. 15 Let him finish the Go ahead, Mr. Brill. 16 Q. -- not with the equipment in the apartment; is that fair to 17 say? 18 THE COURT: All right. Hold on. 19 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. 20 THE COURT: Overruled. 21 A. I'm sorry. Could you ask it one more time. 22 Q. Would it be fair to say that this email address, based upon 23 your understanding and your investigation, is the one 24 associated with the iCloud account, not with the equipment in 25 the apartment? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 2 MS. MURRAY: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross Your Honor, objection. 411 What equipment in the apartment? 3 THE COURT: 4 established an understanding. 5 MR. BRILL: 6 Page 162 of 256 Q. All right. 7 Now it's sustained. Okay. You haven't Thank you. So let me just go back to your previous answer. MR. BRILL: And let's scroll up to the first page 8 again just so we can all know what we're talking about. 9 Q. How was this document obtained? 10 A. From records provided by Apple in response to legal 11 service. 12 Q. 13 records? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And what did you ask for? 16 A. I would have to look at the records. 17 look at the records. 18 Q. 19 Apple confidential IDMS data, sign-on records related to IP 20 address, right? 21 A. 22 time, so I believe we asked them to show us any device that was 23 signed on to any Apple account connected with this IP which we 24 knew to be coming from 1805. 25 Q. Okay. Okay. And what did you ask? Did you ask for those Yeah, I'd have to Based upon what we're looking for here, it says I believe we asked Apple for -- again, we had a date and Okay. Based upon your personal experience, have you ever SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross Page 163 of 256 412 1 used a device, a mobile device, that uses a WiFi? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Have you ever gone to a friend's house and asked them what 4 their WiFi password was? 5 A. I have. 6 Q. Other than the fact that this device signed on to an Apple 7 server from this IP address, does it indicate anything else? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What else does it indicate? 10 A. It indicates what account was accessed and from what 11 device. 12 Q. All right. 13 So basically -- MR. BRILL: If you could scroll down to page 2. Thank 14 you. 15 Q. 16 logged into from the IP address associated with the apartment 17 on that day, correct? 18 A. I believe that is correct. 19 Q. Okay. -- it indicates that the -- this is the account that was 20 And just one other thing. I just wanted to try to see if you could explain or 21 clarify the amount of time. Let's just work backwards. 22 is the day that you search Mr. Ilori and find the 0642 phone on 23 him? 24 A. On the morning of October 8, 2021. 25 Q. October 8, 2021, right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 What Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Lidsky - Recross Page 164 of 256 413 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. 3 applications that you determined to be fraudulent, right? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. Okay. 6 uncovered as well, just so we have the full universe of items 7 that the -- that number is associated with? 8 A. 9 But I was only seeking records connected with the fraudulent 10 loans, so I -- 11 Q. 12 can. 13 A. 14 some. 15 Q. 16 today, it's limited -- the 0642 number in your investigation 17 was limited to, on the one hand, the telephone you found on 18 Mr. Ilori on October 8, 2021, right, so far? 19 A. Yes, I'm with you so far. 20 Q. On the other hand, some applications that you determined to 21 be fraudulent, correct? 22 A. 23 I don't remember if it was on a internet account or somewhere 24 else, but -- 25 Q. And the 0642 number is associated with certain And is it associated with other records that you I -- I don't recall other records. Okay. I just wanted to try to narrow it down as much as I Now you're jumping ahead of me. Okay. Yes. It may be possible. It's possible we found But based upon your recollection as you sit here Yes. Got me so far? It's possible there were some other accounts. Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 165 of 256 414 1 A. -- yes. 2 Q. As you sit here today, based upon your recollection, of 3 course, what is the last date associated with any document, any 4 application that contained that 0642 number, up to, of course, 5 October 8, 2021? 6 7 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor, unless the witness is able to answer that very broad question. 8 THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection only 9 because the documents that have been admitted into evidence are 10 in the record. 11 This isn't a memory test. MR. BRILL: I wasn't trying to test his memory, Judge. 12 I was just trying to get some additional information on that 13 issue. But -- 14 THE COURT: All I'm saying is, we have looked at many, 15 many documents throughout the course of this trial, and the 16 number is either on the documents or it isn't. 17 are themselves in evidence. 18 MR. BRILL: 19 All right. We'll get to it later. Thank you very much. 20 THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: Any redirect? 22 MS. MURRAY: No, your Honor. 23 recross. 24 you. 25 The documents Thank you. I believe that was There's nothing further with this witness. THE COURT: It was recross. Thank I'm asking if you had SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 166 of 256 anything further. 2 MS. MURRAY: Oh, no. 3 THE COURT: All right. 5 All right. You are excused, Special Agent Lidsky. 6 Thank you very much. 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 THE COURT: 4 415 Thank you, your Honor. Thank you. Please be seated then. Thank you, your Honor. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Judge. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll 11 take our afternoon break at this time. 12 please leave your notebooks, again, please don't discuss -- you 13 can leave, Special Agent, because I want you to leave before 14 the jurors so you're not -- I just remind you to 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE COURT: Thank you very much for your time. 17 I'm sorry. Please leave your notebooks on your Thank you. 18 chairs. 19 research over the break. 20 21 22 And as a reminder, don't discuss the case or do any If you can be back at 3:10, that would be much appreciated. Thank you. THE DEPUTY CLERK: Rise for the jury. 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 167 of 256 1 (Jury not present) 2 THE COURT: 3 Special Agent Lidsky, you are, of course, free to All right. Please be seated. 4 remain in the courtroom if you choose to. 5 kick you out. 6 jurors were walking. 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 416 I didn't mean to I just didn't want you to be walking as the No. Thank you, your Honor. All right. Do you have your next witness ready to go? 10 MS. MURRAY: Yes, we do, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: All right. 12 talk about in the interim? Is there anything we need to 13 MS. MURRAY: Nothing from the government. 14 MR. BRILL: No, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 you all in about ten minutes. Thank you. Thank you, all. So I'll see 17 (Recess) 18 (In open court; jury not present) 19 THE COURT: Please be seated. 20 All right. So I'm informed that we're going to have a 21 revised order of witnesses, correct? 22 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: So next up will be Samantha Aaron? 24 MS. MURRAY: That's correct, your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Then Randy Martin? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 168 of 256 417 1 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Then you reserve on whether you're doing 3 Mr. Bateman next or Mr. Jamieson next. 4 MS. MURRAY: That's correct. 5 THE COURT: Okay. 6 you, Mr. Brill? 7 MR. BRILL: No. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 And does that create any issues for They're all fairly straightforward. That's fine with you, though? know you were expecting Ms. Palmer to be up next. So you're -- 10 MR. BRILL: I'm flexible, Judge. 11 THE COURT: Okay. 13 All right. Are we ready for the jury then? 14 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: All right. 12 16 17 Great. Thank you. I I appreciate it. Ms. Dempsey will bring them out then. (Continued on next page) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: 3 You may be seated, everyone. MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government calls Samantha THE COURT: Good afternoon, Ms. Aaron. Aaron. 6 7 If you would come up and then just stand here in the witness stand, please. 8 Ah, I'm sorry. 9 Do we have everyone? 10 Yes. 11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 12 (Witness sworn) 13 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 14 Please spell and state your name for the record. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 We're one juror short. Thank you. Please raise your right hand. Thank you. Samantha Aaron. S-A-M-A-N-T-H-A, A-A-R-O-N. THE DEPUTY CLERK: 17 18 418 Thank you. 4 5 All right. Page 169 of 256 Thank you. Please be seated. SAMANTHA AARON, 19 called as a witness by the Government, 20 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 21 DIRECT EXAMINATION 22 BY MS. MURRAY: 23 Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Aaron. 24 A. Good afternoon. 25 Q. Where do you work? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 170 of 256 419 1 A. I work at M&T Bank in Brooklyn. 2 Q. Is M&T Bank a commercial bank? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Do you work in a particular department or group at M&T 5 Bank? 6 A. I work in retail section, in the branches. 7 Q. What is your current title? 8 A. I'm a senior relationship banker. 9 Q. What are your general responsibilities as a senior 10 relationship banker? 11 A. 12 and lines of credit, anything to do with banking for commercial 13 and consumer customers. 14 Q. 15 microphone. 16 A. Sure. 17 Q. How long have you worked at M&T bank? 18 A. Five years. 19 Q. Ms. Aaron, I'd like to direct your attention to a 20 particular business banking customer of yours. 21 a time when you met an individual named Jonathan Herttua or 22 Herttua? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. How did you understand to pronounce his name? 25 A. "Her-too-uh." I open business accounts, personal accounts, business lines And if you wouldn't mind just speaking a bit more into the Maybe moving forward. Thanks so much. Did there come SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 171 of 256 420 1 Q. Approximately when did you meet Mr. Herttua? 2 A. In 2020. 3 Q. Can you describe how you met Mr. Herttua. 4 A. Yes. 5 came in the bank. 6 HSBC was closing in that neighborhood. 7 at that time. 8 relationship with us. 9 Q. 10 at the time that you first met Mr. Herttua, that was at 50th 11 Street and 8th Avenue in Manhattan? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Can you describe generally what Mr. Herttua looked like. 14 A. He was a Caucasian man. 15 accent. 16 Q. 17 anything that you recall from the time or times that you met 18 him? 19 A. So are you -- is that the initial meeting or -- 20 Q. So initial meeting or subsequent meetings, focusing 21 specifically on either his appearance or any personal 22 characteristics that you noted. 23 A. 24 sweater -- scarf, with kind of like a Inspector Gadget kind of 25 coat kind of thing, and a hat on his head. I was at my -- I was in my office, and Mr. Herttua He was looking to open a new account because I was at 50th and 8th And he was looking to establish new banking And just to be clear, the branch that you were working in He came in, and he had a French Any other characteristics about him that you recall or Sure. He was my only French client. He wore a Burberry SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 172 of 256 421 1 Q. So focusing now on that first meeting with Mr. Herttua, can 2 you describe what happened during that meeting. 3 A. Our first meeting? 4 Q. Yes. 5 A. He came in and we spoke about the different type of 6 accounts. 7 open an account. 8 works and how we can help him, he decided that he would work 9 with me to -- to open that -- that bank account. 10 Q. 11 documentation is required to open a business bank account? 12 A. 13 filing receipts, proof of address, if it weren't on his 14 driver's license, and he brought that in. 15 Edison bill, which verified his address, because he -- at that 16 time he presented a New Jersey driver's license, and he was 17 living in Brooklyn, so I didn't have to ask for address 18 verification because he already knew I would need that, so he 19 brought that in with him. 20 Q. 21 he wanted to open an account under? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Ms. Aaron, did you in fact open a bank account in the name 24 of BRS Consulting for Mr. Herttua? 25 A. He came with -- with everything that I would need to So, you know, after explaining to him how it Generally speaking, what kind of information or We would need his formation documents, his articles, his He brought in a Con Now do you recall the name of Mr. Herttua's business that BRS Consulting. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 173 of 256 1 Q. What, if anything, did you do with the supporting 2 documentation that Mr. Herttua provided? 3 A. 4 business documents so that they can store it on the system. 5 Q. 6 speak with Mr. Herttua again regarding his business accounts? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. After that initial meeting did you meet with Mr. Herttua 9 again regarding his business account or any other banking 10 matters? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Approximately how many times did you meet or speak with 13 Mr. Herttua? 14 A. 15 didn't count them. 16 Q. 17 address on his M&T account? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What, if anything, do you recall about Mr. Herttua's 20 original mailing address on that account? 21 A. 22 Brooklyn, and then after he -- he called to let me know that 23 he's changed his address, so he brought a lease to show that 24 his address was now changed to Bleecker Street in Manhattan. 25 Q. They were submitted to our back office, which we send up Now after that initial meeting with Mr. Herttua did you I don't know. Maybe about ten times, perhaps. I -- I Now did there come a time when Mr. Herttua changed the Initially, when the account was opened, he was living in And what documentation, if any, is a customer required to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 422 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 174 of 256 1 provide to verify a change of address? 2 A. 3 would need. 4 Q. 5 additional account or accounts at M&T Bank? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Approximately when was that? 8 A. It was late 2020. 9 Q. Do you recall what kind of additional account Mr. Herttua 10 sought to open? 11 A. 12 development account. 13 Q. 14 open that account under? 15 A. Yes, it was Appserd. 16 Q. Can you spell that, if you know how. 17 A. I believe it's A-P-P-S-E-R-D. 18 Q. Thank you. 423 A utility bill, a lease, and those are the things that we Did there come a time when Mr. Herttua sought to open an Yes. It was a -- another business account, an app Do you recall the name of the business that he sought to 19 Now, Ms. Aaron, are you familiar with the Small 20 Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program, or PPP? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. At any point during your bank relationship with 23 Mr. Herttua, did you have any discussions with Mr. Herttua 24 about PPP? 25 A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 175 of 256 424 1 Q. Can you describe those discussions. 2 A. Sure. 3 branch, we were told to reach out to our business customers. 4 Mr. Herttua is one of mine, so I reached out to him, and I let 5 him know that we are now accepting applications and I'd be 6 happy to help him with it. 7 apply, and he did. 8 Q. 9 business account in the name of Appserd for Mr. Herttua? 10 A. I did. 11 Q. So after these conversations with Mr. Herttua about the PPP 12 loan opportunity, did there come a time when Mr. Herttua 13 submitted a PPP loan application to M&T? 14 A. He did. 15 Q. Do you recall which of the company accounts that loan 16 application was associated? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you recall the amount of the loan Mr. Herttua was 19 requesting? 20 A. I -- I don't recall the amount. 21 Q. Did there come a time when you reviewed the documentation 22 that Mr. Herttua had submitted in support of the Appserd PPP 23 loan application? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What, if anything, did you observe or do you recall about When we were accepting PPP applications in the And he assured me that he would And just to clarify one thing, did you in fact open a It was Appserd. He submitted his taxes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 176 of 256 425 1 Mr. Herttua's PPP loan application or the supporting 2 documentation? 3 A. 4 those applications, and I told her that my client would apply, 5 so when she saw the app, she called me over to take a look at 6 it just to make sure, and we noticed that the documents didn't 7 look right. 8 looked like they'd been altered. 9 writings over other writings. 10 due diligence. 11 Q. Can you describe what you mean by altered. 12 A. So if -- if we're looking at something and we see that 13 pieces of letters are sticking out or it looks like stuff has 14 been erased, you can see little dots on the paper where stuff 15 should have been. 16 of each other. 17 Q. 18 observed, was that on the tax documentation relating to Appserd 19 that Mr. Herttua submitted in support of his PPP application? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Aside from your supervisor, did there come a time when you 22 discussed Mr. Herttua's account with anyone else at M&T Bank? 23 A. No. 24 Q. After your discussion with your supervisor, did you attempt 25 to contact Mr. Herttua? So at that time my manager was in charge of looking over So when we zoom in on it, we notice that his taxes You can see that there were So we sent it down for further And then you see certain writings are on top That would mean that the document is altered. And with respect to these apparent alterations that you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 177 of 256 426 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Herttua about his 3 account or accounts after you had flagged the loan 4 documentation that you had reviewed? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did there come a time when law enforcement approached you 7 to discuss Mr. Herttua? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Approximately when was that? 10 A. Last year. 11 Q. Do you recall being shown photographs of several 12 individuals? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Were you able to identify one of the individuals in the 15 photographs you were shown as Mr. Herttua? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. How were you able to identify one of the photographs as the 18 person that you knew as Mr. Herttua? 19 A. 20 and based on his features, the slenderness of his face and what 21 I've seen, and also the -- the ID that he presented to me, that 22 was the guy that I -- that I chose. 23 I haven't spoken to him. Well, one of the photos had him with his signature scarf, MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please put up for the 24 witness, the Court, and the parties what's been marked for 25 identification as Government Exhibit 3519-0002. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 THE COURT: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 178 of 256 427 So Ms. Aaron, it should come up on your 2 screen that's in front of you, if you just give them a moment. 3 Right now only you and I and the lawyers can see this. 4 THE WITNESS: 5 THE COURT: 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay? Thank you. 7 BY MS. MURRAY: 8 Q. 9 that you had met with Mr. Herttua personally on several 10 occasions; is that right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you at any time during those meetings see him without a 13 mask, surgical or COVID-19 mask on his face? 14 A. 15 then I asked him to fix it, he took it off and he fixed it, and 16 that's how I saw his face. 17 Q. 18 anything on it; is that correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you also saw his ID -- 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- which had a photo of him. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Now looking at this document that's on your screen, do you 25 recognize this document? As we're waiting for that document to load, you mentioned So one time he came in and his mask was sliding down, and So you did observe his face without any kind of mask or SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Direct Page 179 of 256 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What do you recognize it to be? 3 A. I recognize it to be the photos that were shown to me by 4 the officers. 5 Q. 6 bottom right. 7 that signature? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Whose signature is it? 10 A. It's mine. There's a signature and date next to the photograph on the 11 12 428 There's an arrow coming down. MS. MURRAY: Do you recognize Your Honor, the government offers what's marked for identification as 3519-0002. 13 MR. BRILL: No objection. 14 THE COURT: It will be received. 15 (Government's Exhibit 3519-0002 received in evidence) 16 MS. MURRAY: May we publish? 17 THE COURT: You may. 18 MS. MURRAY: Thank you. 19 THE COURT: Can you all see? 20 JURORS: 21 MS. MURRAY: Yes. Thank you. 22 BY MS. MURRAY: 23 Q. 24 enforcement showed you in July of 2021; is that correct? 25 A. Ms. Aaron, you mentioned this was a set of photos that law Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Aaron - Cross Page 180 of 256 429 1 Q. And of the eight photos, can you just confirm for us that 2 the bottom right photo is the individual that you identified. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And just to clarify, again, you said that whenever you 5 spoke with Jonathan Herttua on the phone or in person, he had a 6 French accent; is that right? 7 A. As Jonathan, yes. Yes. 8 MS. MURRAY: You can take that down, Ms. Loftus. 9 I have nothing further, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: 11 Mr. Brill? 12 MR. BRILL: All right. Thank you. Briefly, your Honor. 13 CROSS EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. BRILL: 15 Q. Good afternoon, ma'am. 16 A. Good afternoon. 17 Q. Ms. Aaron, with Ms. Loftus's help, I'd just like you to 18 take a look at what's in evidence as Exhibit 141. 19 Do you see it there? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you recognize it? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And what do you recognize it to be? 24 A. That is the bank signature card. 25 Q. Okay. And was that the signature card that you assisted SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct 1 Mr. Herttua in filling out, if you know? 2 A. MR. BRILL: Okay. Could we scroll down to page 3 at the top. 5 And could we highlight the top portion. 6 All the way down to the signature line, please. 7 430 Yes, that is the signature card that he signed, yes. 3 4 Page 181 of 256 highlight. 8 I'm sorry. Perfect. Could we zoom in on it. Thank you. 9 BY MR. BRILL: 10 Q. Do you recognize this portion of the paperwork? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And what is it? 13 A. This is the other part of the signature card. 14 the -- I believe the resolution. 15 Q. 16 resolution? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And what is that phone number? 19 A. 646-575-0642. 20 Q. And who provided that phone number? 21 A. Mr. Herttua. Okay. Not This is And is there a phone number that is included in the 22 MR. BRILL: Thank you. I have nothing further. 23 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Brill. 24 MS. MURRAY: Nothing further, your Honor. 25 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Thank you very much, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Ms. Aaron. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 182 of 256 We appreciate your coming in. 2 THE WITNESS: 3 (Witness excused) 4 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government calls Randy 6 THE COURT: Thank you very much, ma'am. 7 Good afternoon, Mr. Martin. 5 431 Thank you. Martin. If you would, please, 8 just come stand here in the witness box, and once you're 9 situated, my courtroom deputy, Ms. Dempsey, will administer the 10 oath to you. Please stay standing. 11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 12 (Witness sworn) 13 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 14 your name for the record. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 17 Please raise your right hand. Thank you. Randy Martin. Thanks. Please state and spell R-A-N-D-Y, M-A-R-T-I-N. Please be seated. RANDY MARTIN, 18 called as a witness by the Government, 19 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 20 DIRECT EXAMINATION 21 BY MS. MURRAY: 22 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Martin. 23 A. Good afternoon. 24 Q. Where do you work? 25 A. M&T Bank. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 183 of 256 432 1 Q. Is M&T Bank a commercial bank? 2 A. It is. 3 Q. Do you work in a particular department or group at M&T 4 Bank? 5 A. I work in banking services risk management. 6 Q. What is your current title? 7 A. Risk team lead. 8 Q. What are your general responsibilities as a risk team lead? 9 A. My general responsibilities are first-line risk oversight 10 for operations. 11 Q. How long have you worked at M&T Bank? 12 A. Roughly 12½ years. 13 Q. Prior to your current position have you had any other 14 positions at M&T Bank? 15 A. I have. 16 Q. What are they? 17 A. Model risk manager and process improvement. 18 Q. And you mentioned your first-line risk in your current 19 role. 20 A. 21 risk is where I reside. We have oversight of frontline and 22 back office operations. Second-line risk is -- has oversight 23 over our program and how we administer it to the first line. 24 And third line is our audit department, which oversees the 25 entire bank. Can you describe M&T Bank's risk structure. M&T Bank has a three-tier risk structure. The first-line SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 184 of 256 433 1 Q. Mr. Martin, are you familiar with the Small Business 2 Administration's Paycheck Protection Program, or PPP? 3 A. I am, yes. 4 Q. Did there come a time when your work at M&T Bank on the 5 first-line risk involved analysis of PPP loan applications? 6 A. Yes, it did. 7 Q. Approximately when was that? 8 A. It was at the later half of the first and during the second 9 rounds of PPP loans. 10 Q. 11 second rounds of PPP loans. 12 A. 13 and there was a gap between them. 14 second half of the first round to start helping with risk 15 analysis, and then I worked fully through the second round of 16 lending. 17 Q. 18 the risk? 19 A. 20 identified potential red flags, and I would take a look at 21 those and determine whether or not those needed to be escalated 22 to our risk working group or if they seemed adequate to 23 continue in the process. 24 Q. 25 applications to you for your review? Can you describe generally what you mean by the first and So PPP, the program was available in two separate rounds, And I was brought in in the With respect to PPP loans, what was your role in evaluating My role was to review escalated applications where folks Now who then at M&T Bank would escalate PPP loan SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 185 of 256 So that could come from multiple places. It could come 434 1 A. 2 from frontline sales folks; it could come from a branch 3 employee, branch manager; it could also come from the folks in 4 the back office reviewing applications when they entered them 5 into our system. 6 Q. 7 PPP loan application was escalated for your review? 8 A. 9 application for the information that was on the application; I 10 would look at the attached documentation, if there was any; and 11 then I would also do a little bit of internet research just to 12 verify or validate the information that was on the application, 13 if I could. 14 Q. 15 review of PPP loan applications that were escalated to you? 16 A. 17 information seemed appropriate and adequate, I would return 18 that application back to whoever sent that escalation to me, 19 let them know that I've taken a look at it and determined that 20 it's okay to continue in the process. 21 potential red flags that were concerning to me, I would 22 escalate that to our internal risk team, which was a 23 cross-functional team of business folks, financial crimes, and 24 other experts to the bank. 25 Q. And generally speaking, what steps did you undertake when a So if something was escalated to me, I would review the What, if anything, did you do upon completion of your risk If they were escalated and I determined that the If I identified Mr. Martin, did you ever have contact with any PPP loan SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 186 of 256 435 1 applicant? 2 A. I never had -- I never had direct contact with anybody, no. 3 Q. Did there come a time when a PPP loan application for a 4 company called Appserd was escalated to you for your review? 5 A. 6 7 Yes. MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish Government Exhibit 156, which is in evidence. 8 And if we could take a look first at the overall 9 document. 10 Q. Mr. Martin, do you recognize this document? 11 A. This appears to be a PPP application. 12 MS. MURRAY: Now, Ms. Loftus, if you could please zoom 13 in on the top portion of this to begin. 14 Q. 15 this PPP loan application. 16 A. Appserd, Inc. 17 Q. And can you read the address below that, the business 18 address listed on this application. 19 A. 74 East 7th Street, Brooklyn, New York. 20 Q. Looking to the right, can you please read the primary 21 contact and the associated email address. 22 A. Jonathan Herttua. 23 Q. And the email address? 24 A. It is herttuajonathan1957@gmail.com. 25 Q. And then the business phone listed just above the email Can you please read the business legal name associated with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 187 of 256 436 1 address, please? 2 A. 646-575-0642. 3 Q. And then looking beneath the primary contact name, what is 4 the amount of the loan that was requested in this particular 5 application? 6 A. $4,409,560. 7 MS. MURRAY: 8 page 6. 9 Q. Ms. Loftus, can you please turn to Now focusing on the top portion -MS. MURRAY: 10 If we could zoom in. 11 Q. First of all, what type of document is this? 12 A. This appears to be a 940 tax document. 13 Q. And is this one of the documents that would have been 14 submitted by the applicant in support of the application? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And looking at this, what is the name listed on this 17 purported tax document? 18 A. Appserd, Inc. 19 Q. And the address associated with Appserd, Inc., on this tax 20 document? 21 A. 22 64 Bleecker Street, Suite 188, New York, New York. MS. MURRAY: And Ms. Loftus, if we could please turn 23 to page 10. 24 Q. And again, Mr. Martin, what type of document is this? 25 A. So this is a 941 tax document. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct 1 Q. 2 submitted in support of the application? 3 A. Page 188 of 256 437 Would this similarly have been one of the documents That is correct. 4 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can you please zoom in on the 5 top portion of this document. 6 Q. And what is the name listed on this purported tax document? 7 A. Appserd, Inc. 8 Q. What is the address listed for Appserd, Inc. on this 9 purported tax document? 10 A. 74 East 7th Street, Brooklyn, New York. 11 MS. MURRAY: If you could unhighlight those but stay 12 zoomed in, please, Ms. Loftus. 13 Q. 14 page that was relevant to your risk review of this application? 15 A. 16 numbers do not align. 17 which they would typically be entered in. Mr. Martin, what else, if anything, did you notice on this So looking at the Employer Identification Number, the They also seem to go over the boxes This is not typical. 18 Additionally, if you look at above the 5 and next to 19 the 4 in the Employer Identification Number and then above the 20 74 in the address and above the B in Brooklyn, there are 21 erroneous characters that do not match up with the information 22 that is on this application. 23 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could try to zoom in on 24 just a portion of that. 25 please. Let's focus on the 74 in the address, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 189 of 256 438 1 Q. So in this level of detail we see what just looks like a 2 line. 3 type of font or what type of information, if any, was above the 4 74? 5 A. 6 can clearly read it, and it is -- it is a different address 7 than this one that's on here. 8 Q. Based on your review, were you able to determine what Yeah. On the original documentation, when you zoom in, you So based on your review -MS. MURRAY: 9 And Ms. Loftus, thank you. You can zoom 10 out, but keep that page up, please. 11 Q. 12 this document, as you were reviewing for potential anomalies or 13 issues of concern, you were able to see that it appeared that 14 there was additional information on this purported tax 15 document; is that correct? 16 A. So based on your review, were there some indications on That is correct. MS. MURRAY: 17 Now, Ms. Loftus, can you please turn to 18 page 31 of Government Exhibit 156. 19 Q. What type of document is this, Mr. Martin? 20 A. So this is a Schedule C tax document. 21 Q. And looking at the top -- 22 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if you could please zoom in 23 on the top portion through to Section E. 24 Q. 25 as a supporting document in connection with the Appserd PPP And Mr. Martin, is this another document that was submitted SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 190 of 256 439 1 application? 2 A. That is correct. 3 Q. Now looking at this purported tax document, what, if 4 anything, did you notice on this page that was relevant to your 5 risk review? 6 A. 7 font as well as a whiteout, white covering of the line under -- 8 between Sections C and E. 9 Q. Why, if at all, did that draw attention? 10 A. Typically, filling this out, as you can see, on the two 11 lines above it, when you enter information, it doesn't cover 12 the bottom line. So on line C, Appserd, Inc. is bolded and in a different 13 MS. MURRAY: That drew attention. Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can zoom in 14 on that. 15 Q. 16 this loan, including but not limited to the examples that we 17 looked at today, what, if anything, did you conclude about the 18 application? 19 A. 20 warranted additional review by our risk working team. 21 Q. 22 relating to this loan application beyond just the documents 23 we've looked at? 24 A. 25 search for the company. Mr. Martin, based on your review of the documentation for After reviewing that information, I decided that this What additional information, if any, did you review So for this specific application, I did do some internet Beyond that, I'm not a hundred percent SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Martin - Direct Page 191 of 256 440 1 sure that I remember. 2 Q. 3 to the next level of risk review; is that correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. Do you recall whether this loan was approved? 6 A. This loan was not approved at M&T Bank. 7 Q. It was denied; is that correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And what, if anything, was the reason for the denial of 10 this loan request? 11 A. 12 tolerance. 13 Q. Can you explain what you mean by "risk tolerance." 14 A. We use that as a term when there are anomalies that we may 15 see or if a business does not meet the criteria that the bank 16 wants to do business with. 17 Q. 18 notified or were notified about the denial of their PPP loan 19 applications? 20 A. 21 describing that their application had not been approved and it 22 would typically have the reasoning behind that, which for this 23 case would have been outside of risk tolerance. 24 Q. 25 have in notifying applicants of a PPP loan rejection? After you concluded your review, you escalated this review I believe the reason was it was outside of the bank's risk And do you know how, if at all, potential borrowers are Typically a borrower would receive a letter in the mail And Mr. Martin, what role, if any, do you have or did you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 A. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 192 of 256 I had no -- no role in that. 2 MS. MURRAY: Just a moment, your Honor, please. 3 THE COURT: Yes. 4 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: All right. 6 Any cross, Mr. Brill? 7 MR. BRILL: One moment, your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Yes, sure. 9 MR. BRILL: Nothing, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: All right. 11 are excused. 12 coming in. (Witness excused) 14 MR. FELTON: 16 Nothing further. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. You Have a good rest of the day, and thank you for 13 15 441 Your Honor, the government calls William Jamieson. THE COURT: All right. Good afternoon, Mr. Jamieson. 17 If you would, please come stand here in the witness stand and 18 remain standing while my courtroom deputy Ms. Dempsey 19 administers the oath. Thank you. 20 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 21 (Witness sworn) 22 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 23 your name for the record. 24 25 THE WITNESS: Please raise your right hand. Thank you. Please state and spell William Jamieson. W-I-L-L-I-A-M, J-A-M-I-E-S-O-N. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct 1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 Thank you. Page 193 of 256 442 Please be seated. Thank you. WILLIAM JAMIESON, 4 called as a witness by the Government, 5 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. FELTON: 8 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Jamieson. 9 A. Hi. 10 Q. How old are you? 11 A. 44 years old. 12 Q. Where do you currently live? 13 A. I live in Sandy Spring, Maryland. 14 Q. Do you live with anyone? 15 A. My son. 16 Q. How far did you go in school? 17 A. I have a bachelor's degree. 18 Q. What did you study? 19 A. Studied theater. 20 Q. What do you do for a living? 21 A. I currently am a freelance video and audio post-production 22 person. 23 Q. What sorts of stuff do you do? 24 A. I edit videos for some small businesses for like social 25 media use and edit podcasts, things like that. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct 1 Q. Mr. Jamieson, what is your full name? 2 A. William Alexander Jamieson. 3 Q. What is your date of birth? 4 A. July 27, 1978. 5 MR. FELTON: Page 194 of 256 443 Your Honor, I'd respectfully request that 6 the answer to the next question be under seal. 7 Q. Mr. Jamieson, what is your Social Security number? 8 A. XXX-XX-XXXX. 9 Q. Mr. Jamieson, did there come a time where you learned that 10 you were the victim of identity theft? 11 A. Yes, there did. 12 Q. Approximately when did that occur? 13 A. It was about a year ago. 14 Q. How did you learn that you were the victim of identity 15 theft? 16 A. 17 Lidsky. 18 Q. What did you understand from Mr. Lidsky? 19 A. He told me that my identity had been stolen and then used 20 to obtain a driver's license and I think rent an apartment and 21 possibly attempt to apply for some loans. 22 Q. 23 information? 24 A. 25 accounts and things like that were safe. I was contacted by an investigator for the DOJ named Harry What, if anything, did you do upon learning that Checked my credit report and made sure that all of my SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 195 of 256 1 Q. 2 you experiencing as a result of being the victim of identity 3 theft? 4 A. 5 claiming to be my landlord for an apartment I've never heard 6 of, so that was certainly of concern to me. 7 Q. 8 about? 9 A. In New York. 10 Q. Are you renting an apartment in New York City? 11 A. No, I am not. Now about a year later, what, if any, lingering effects are Just a few days ago I received a phone call from someone Where was the apartment located that you received this call 12 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 13 Government Exhibit 162, which is in evidence, and turn to 14 page 1. 15 If you could zoom in on the bottom of the page for 16 Owner Information. 17 Q. 18 screen? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. Do you recognize the name? 21 A. Yes. 22 different. 23 Q. What is the difference in the spelling? 24 A. In my name there is an "e" after the "i." 25 444 Mr. Jamieson, do you see the information that's on your It's my name, although the spelling is slightly MR. FELTON: If we could just please turn to the next SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 196 of 256 445 page, Ms. Loftus. If we could zoom in on the top of the page, please, 2 3 Ms. Loftus. 4 Q. Mr. Jamieson, do you recognize the Social Security number? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. How do you recognize it? 7 A. That is my Social Security number. 8 Q. Do you recognize the date of birth underneath it? 9 A. I do. MR. FELTON: 10 11 That's my date of birth. bit. Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom out a little And turn back to the first page. 12 If we just blow up the top left of the page. 13 I'm sorry. The top left, Ms. Loftus. 14 Q. 15 U.S. Small Business Administration on the top? 16 A. Yes, I do. 17 Q. Have you ever submitted an application to the U.S. Small 18 Business Administration? 19 A. 20 Mr. Jamieson, do you see that there's a reference to the No, I have not. MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, if you could zoom under the 21 Business Information also on this page. 22 Q. 23 says Jetaway Jets Corp.? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. Are you familiar with that company? Mr. Jamieson, do you see where under Business Legal Name it SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 197 of 256 446 1 A. No, I am not. 2 Q. A little further down, do you see where it says what the 3 gross revenues for the 12 months prior to the date of the 4 disaster? 5 A. I see. 6 Q. Could you read that number for the jury. 7 A. $3,120,156. 8 Q. And then the last entry on this zoomed-in portion where it 9 says the number of employees, do you see that, Mr. Jamieson? 10 A. I do. 11 Q. Could you please read that for the jury. 12 A. So number of employees as of January 31, 2020, is 11. 13 Q. Do you see where it notes that the business activity is in 14 transportation and the detailed business activity is airlines? 15 A. I do. 16 Q. Have you ever worked in the airline business? 17 A. I have not. 18 Q. Mr. Jamieson, do you see where it lists a primary business 19 address, a little further up on the screen? 20 A. I -- sorry. 21 Q. Do you recognize that address? 22 A. No, I do not. 23 Q. Do you see where it says a business email address? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. Do you recognize that address? Oh, yes, I do, yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 198 of 256 1 A. No, I don't. 2 Q. Do you notice anything about the spelling of the email 3 address? 4 A. 5 the "e" missing. Well, it appears to be using my name, although, again, with 6 7 447 MR. FELTON: please. Ms. Loftus, thank you. You can zoom out, And turn back to the second page. 8 And Ms. Loftus, you could actually blow up the text 9 where it refers to the banking information, about the midway 10 portion of the page. 11 Q. 12 is referenced? 13 A. I do. 14 Q. Do you recognize that account? 15 A. No, I do not. 16 Q. Have you ever had a Wells Fargo bank account? 17 A. No, I have not. 18 Q. Mr. Jamieson, what, if any, involvement did you have in 19 applying for the Small Business Administration loan we are 20 looking at? 21 A. None whatsoever. 22 Q. Did you authorize anyone to use your identity in this way? 23 A. No, I did not. 24 25 Mr. Jamieson, do you see where a Wells Fargo bank account MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, let's now publish Government Exhibit 341, please, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 199 of 256 And I'd ask that we zoom in to the Applicant 2 Information portion of the document. 3 Q. Mr. Jamieson, is this your handwriting? 4 A. No, it is not. 5 Q. Do you recognize the name? 6 A. I do. 7 Q. How do you recognize it? 8 A. That is my name spelled correctly. 9 Q. Do you recognize the Social Security number? 10 A. I do. 11 Q. How come? 12 A. That's my Social Security number. 13 Q. How about your date of birth? 14 A. That is my date of birth as well. 15 Q. Do you see where it lists a cellphone number? 16 A. I do. 17 Q. Do you recognize that? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 Q. That's not your phone number? 20 A. It is not my phone number. 21 Q. Has that ever been your phone number? 22 A. No, it has not. MR. FELTON: 23 24 25 If we could just zoom out, Ms. Loftus, please. And just blow up the top left and right, so just the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 448 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct Page 200 of 256 1 heading of this document. 2 Q. 3 for MySpace Real Estate NYC? 4 A. I do. 5 Q. Do you know what that is? 6 A. No, I don't. 7 Q. Do you see where it says Rental Application on the top 8 right? 9 A. I do. 10 Q. Did you apply for an apartment in New York City? 11 A. No, I have not. 449 Mr. Jamieson, do you see where on the left there's a logo 12 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please blow 13 out -- or zoom out. 14 the middle and zoom into that portion of the document, please, 15 Ms. Loftus. 16 Q. 17 is Amana Air Charters, LLC? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. And your occupation is air charter broker? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. And your annual income is $250,000 a year? 22 A. I do. 23 Q. Is any of that true? 24 A. Not at all. 25 Q. Have you ever been in what appears to be the transportation And if we turn to the Business section in Thank you. Mr. Jamieson, do you see where it states that your employer SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 business? 2 A. No, I haven't. 3 Q. Air chartering? 4 A. No. 5 6 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Jamieson - Direct MR. FELTON: Page 201 of 256 450 Ms. Loftus, if we could please turn to page 5 of this exhibit. 7 If you could just blow up this identification card. 8 Q. Mr. Jamieson, what identifying information, if any, do you 9 recognize here? 10 A. 11 see my birthdate. 12 Q. That in fact your birthdate? 13 A. That is my birthdate, yes. 14 Q. And that is in fact how you spell your name? 15 A. That is correct, yes. 16 Q. Including your middle initial? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Is that your address? 19 A. No, that is not my address. 20 Q. Are you 6-foot 2? 21 A. I am not. 22 Q. Is that your photograph? 23 A. No, it is not my photograph. 24 Q. Is this your driver's license? 25 A. This is not my driver's license. I see my full name and middle initial spelled correctly, I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 202 of 256 451 1 Q. Have you ever had a New York State driver's license? 2 A. No, I have not. 3 Q. Mr. Jamieson, what involvement did you have in applying for 4 an apartment from MySpace NYC? 5 A. None at all. 6 Q. Did you ever submit an apartment rental application to 7 MySpace NYC? 8 A. No, I have not. 9 Q. Did you authorize anyone to use your identity in this way? 10 A. No, I did not. 11 MR. FELTON: One moment, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Sure. 13 MR. FELTON: No further questions, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: All right. 15 Mr. Brill? 16 MR. BRILL: One moment, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: Yes. 18 MR. BRILL: Nothing, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: All right. 20 much, sir. You're excused. 21 help us with this case. 22 THE WITNESS: 23 (Witness excused) 24 MR. FELTON: 25 your Honor. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very We appreciate your coming in to Thank you. The government calls Elizabeth Palmer, Your Honor, the government has witness binders for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 2 3 4 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 203 of 256 452 this witness. THE COURT: All right. Terrific. You can hand it to Ms. Dempsey and she'll put it on the witness stand. Ms. Palmer, you can come up, please. Thank you for 5 being here. If you'd stand in the witness stand and just give 6 us a moment. Thank you. 7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 8 (Witness sworn) 9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 10 your name for the record. 11 12 THE WITNESS: Please raise your right hand. Thank you. Please state and spell Elizabeth Palmer. E-L-I-Z-A-B-E-T-H, P-A-L-M-E-R. 13 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Thank you. 14 THE COURT: 15 And if you would speak into the microphone when you're All right. Please be seated. Thank you, Ms. Palmer. 16 answering the questions, because the court reporter sitting 17 right next to you, she needs to get what you're saying, and our 18 jury needs to be able to hear you, all right? 19 Mr. Felton? 20 MR. FELTON: 21 Thank you. Thank you, your Honor. ELIZABETH PALMER, 22 called as a witness by the Government, 23 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 24 DIRECT EXAMINATION 25 BY MR. FELTON: SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 204 of 256 453 1 Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Palmer. 2 A. Good afternoon. 3 Q. Where do you work? 4 A. Department of Justice Office of Inspector General. 5 Q. What is that? 6 A. That is the internal investigation arm of the Department of 7 Justice. 8 Q. 9 Office of Inspector General? 10 A. I've been there about 10 of the last 13 years. 11 Q. What did you do in the other three years? 12 A. I worked as a program auditor for the Securities and 13 Exchange Commission Office of the Inspector General. 14 Q. What did that role involve? 15 A. That was doing program audits of offices and programs 16 within the Securities and Exchange Commission, 17 noninvestigative. 18 Q. 19 Office of Inspector General? 20 A. Senior forensic auditor in the investigations division. 21 Q. Could you, in lay terms, explain what that means. 22 A. Sure. 23 combines accounting knowledge with investigation skills to do 24 financial analysis using established methodologies that can be 25 presented in court. How long have you been with the Department of Justice What is your current title with the Department of Justice A forensic auditor or forensic accountant is one who So I do things like trace the flow of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 205 of 256 454 1 money and calculate damages against the government. 2 Q. 3 in your title? 4 A. 5 auditor. 6 Q. 7 specialized training in auditing? 8 A. 9 forensic examiner. 10 for work, education, and testing, and then also have continuing 11 professional education requirements every year. 12 Q. 13 asked to review bank and other financial records that are 14 associated with this case? 15 A. I have. 16 Q. Have you also been asked to prepare summary charts based on 17 your review of those records? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who requested that you prepare and review these summary 20 charts? 21 A. The prosecution team. 22 Q. You should have a binder in front of you that contains 23 exhibits, Government Exhibits 700 through 709. 24 that binder? 25 A. What, if anything, is the significance of the word "senior" That you have additional experience from a regular forensic Beyond your work experience, have you received any Yes. I'm a certified public accountant and a certified Those are -- they both have requirements In connection with your testimony today, have you been Do you have Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 206 of 256 455 1 Q. I'd ask you to please just take a moment and flip through 2 them and familiarize yourself with them and look up at me when 3 you're done. 4 Do you recognize those exhibits? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. How do you recognize them? 7 THE COURT: I don't think she looked up yet, did she? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: I did. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. 10 A. Yes, these are the exhibits that I put together. 11 these. 12 Q. In general, what are these exhibits? 13 A. These are summaries of the financial information that I 14 reviewed and analyzed. 15 Q. Did you create all of them? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Do they summarize certain information contained within 18 voluminous records? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. To your knowledge are the documents accurate? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. How do you know that they're accurate? 23 A. I -- I created these myself. 24 Q. Are the financial accounts that you relied on in creating 25 or verifying the charts listed in the charts themselves? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 I created Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 A. MR. FELTON: Your Honor, the government offers THE COURT: counsel. All right. I have a question for you, Are the source documents all in evidence? 6 MR. FELTON: Yes, your Honor. 7 THE COURT: All right. 8 MR. BRILL: No objection. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 Mr. Brill? These summary charts will be received in evidence. 11 12 456 Government Exhibits 700-709 into evidence. 4 5 Page 207 of 256 Yes. 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct (Government's Exhibits 700 through 709 received in evidence) 13 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 14 Government Exhibit 700. 15 BY MR. FELTON: 16 Q. Ms. Palmer, do you see this Government Exhibit? 17 A. Yes. 18 MR. FELTON: 19 JURORS: Can the jury all see it? Yes. 20 Q. Ms. Palmer, what does this chart show? 21 A. This is a summary chart of accounts that received five 22 government loans and the information about all those accounts. 23 Q. How many loans are reflected in this chart? 24 A. This represents five government loans. 25 Q. Could you just walk us through the first row as an example. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Sure. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 208 of 256 457 1 A. So this represents funds on November 10, 2020, into 2 an account in the name of Mula Apps Corp. at Chase Bank account 3 ending 8959, user name Jonathan Herttua. 4 government loan in the amount of $149,900. 5 Q. And how about the fifth row, the last row before the total? 6 A. Mm-hmm. 7 name of BRS Consulting Corp., at Capital One, account ending 8 8262, with the user name of Jonathan Herttua, into that account 9 was received a government loan in the amount of $531,218. 10 Q. 11 relied on in creating this document indicated? 12 A. 13 on." 14 Q. 15 five loans? 16 A. The total of the loans was $1,024,424. 17 Q. Let's take a look at the specifics at some of these loans. It received a Similarly, on May 19, 2021, into an account in the Where in this exhibit are the Government Exhibits that you They're in the bottom right corner, where it says "Based What is the total amount of money received across these 18 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 19 Government Exhibit 701, which is in evidence. 20 Q. 21 show? 22 A. 23 into the account and then the flow of funds from there out of 24 the account. 25 Q. Ms. Palmer, generally speaking, what does this document This is a flow chart showing the money coming in and -- And when you say into the account, which account are you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 209 of 256 458 1 referring to with respect to this exhibit? 2 A. 3 Mula Apps Corporation at Chase Bank ending 8959. 4 Q. 5 exhibit? 6 A. 7 the loan money, so it's the EIDL loan from SBA in the amount of 8 $149,900 that came in on November 10, 2020. 9 that money coming into the bank account there in green, at 10 Chase Bank, as I mentioned, Mula Apps Corporation, also in the 11 name of Jonathan Herttua, and then the three blue rectangles on 12 the bottom show the funds moving out of that account. 13 Q. 14 moment, but first let's take a quick look at the loan and bank 15 account reference here in that green box. Mm-hmm. This is an account there in green in the name of So at a high level, what is the red box showing in this So this there at the top in the red box, that represents This exhibit shows Ms. Palmer, we'll return to this in more detail in a MR. FELTON: 16 Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 17 Government Exhibit 160, which is in evidence. 18 Q. Ms. Palmer, do you see the name of this document? 19 A. Yes, this is a loan authorization and agreement. 20 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to 21 page 2. And if we could zoom in onto that first full paragraph 22 there. 23 Q. 24 Mula Apps Corp., and it lists an address in New York City, in 25 the amount of $150,000? Ms. Palmer, do you see where it says that this is a loan to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 A. MR. FELTON: 459 Ms. Loftus, could you please zoom out and turn to page 7. 4 5 Page 210 of 256 Yes. 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct And Ms. Loftus, I'd ask that you just blow up the signature portion of the document. 6 Thank you. 7 Q. Ms. Palmer, can you please read the signature of the person 8 who purportedly signed this loan on behalf of Mula Apps Corp. 9 A. This appears to be signed by Jonathan Lipow, Owner-Officer. 10 Q. And on what date? 11 A. On November 4, 2020. 12 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please now publish 13 Government Exhibit 113, which is also in evidence. 14 Q. Ms. Palmer, what does this document show? 15 A. This is the bank signature cards. 16 would have been created when the bank account was opened. 17 one of the opening account documents. 18 called a signature card. 19 Corporation, as you can see on the top left corner, and the 20 account number 8959 is across from that on the top right. 21 Q. And a few lines down, do you see where it says Date Opened? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What is the date opened? 24 A. August 6, 2020. 25 MR. FELTON: This is a document that It's It's -- again, it's This is in the name of Mula Apps And it's a little bit small, but maybe, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 211 of 256 1 Ms. Loftus, could we blow up the printed name, that bottom 2 portion across the whole row. 3 Q. What do you see under printed name, Ms. Palmer? 4 A. This has the name of Jonathan Herttua and he's listed as 5 president. 6 Q. And what date was this signed? 7 A. Signed on August 6, 2020. 8 Q. And do you see the list of telephone numbers there? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Could you read the last four digits of that second 11 telephone number. 12 A. It ends 0642. 13 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to 14 page 6. 15 Q. Now, Ms. Palmer, what generally is this document? 16 A. This is a bank statement, you can tell it's Chase Bank on 17 the top left corner, account ending 5989, you can see in the 18 top right corner, Mula Apps Corp. 19 20 460 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you just blow up maybe the top right just so the account number is more visible. 21 Thank you. And you can zoom out now. 22 I'd ask now that, Ms. Loftus, you blow up the Deposits 23 and Additions portion of the document. 24 Q. Ms. Palmer, do you see a deposit on November 10th? 25 A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 212 of 256 461 1 Q. Could you help explain what that is. 2 A. Sure. 3 You can see that in the first line of the description, that it 4 says SBA and Treas 310. 5 government payment. 6 that it says Mula Apps Corp. 7 deposit. On November 10th, we see this deposit for $149,900. That's an indicator that it's a In the third line, the middle, you can see That's the recipient of that 8 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, if you would please zoom out. 9 Now if you could blow up or zoom in on the ATM and 10 Debit Card Withdrawals, Ms. Loftus. Thank you. 11 Q. 12 on November 10th, from the time the deposit came in through the 13 bottom, what is happening with the deposits or with the 14 withdrawals here? 15 A. 16 just saw came in on November 10th, and between November 10th 17 and November 20th, we see several ATM withdrawals, a couple of 18 card purchases, but if you look at the amounts of the ATM 19 withdrawals, you see they're for usually around $3,000, 1,000, 20 2500. 21 several thousand dollars is coming out within ten days of that 22 government loan coming into this account. 23 Q. 24 include New York, New York -- 25 A. Now, Ms. Palmer, taking a look at this activity, starting Mm-hmm. So this represents about ten days. The money we They are at various locations around New York. And And when you note locations around New York, does that Mm-hmm. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Q. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 213 of 256 -- which is Manhattan? 2 3 please. 4 A. THE COURT: Hold on. You have to say yes or no, THE COURT: Thank you. Yes. 5 6 Q. For instance, what's the transaction on November 13th? 7 A. On November 13th, we see there toward the middle an ATM 8 withdrawal at 850 3rd Avenue, New York, for $3,000. 9 Q. 10 taking out cash at an ATM? 11 A. And an ATM withdrawal, is that correct that that's just Correct. 12 13 462 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to the next page. 14 Now if we could zoom in on the ATM and Debit Card 15 Withdrawals, including the total. 16 Q. 17 exhibit? 18 A. 19 Withdrawals for that period of November of 2020 of $44,029.65. 20 So in that 30 days or so, 20 days since the money came in, a 21 little over $44,000 came out. 22 Q. 23 November 20th through November 30th in this portion of the 24 exhibit? 25 A. Ms. Palmer, what is occurring in this portion of the This shows the total -- we see ATM and Debit Card And what's the nature of the transactions from This is ATM and Debit Card Withdrawals. That's, as we saw, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 mostly ATM cash withdrawals. 2 MR. FELTON: Page 214 of 256 Now if we could please zoom out, 3 Ms. Loftus, and then zoom in on the Electronic Withdrawals 4 portion of the exhibit. 5 Q. Ms. Palmer, could you help explain what's happening here. 6 A. Sure. 7 ATM withdrawals, so it's cash. 8 463 So the first section we just looked at was mostly Electronic withdrawals are going to be things like 9 wire transfers and other electronic transfers among bank 10 accounts. 11 are Zelle payments. 12 funds. 13 called East Coast Air Charter for $2,500 each. 14 some -- some large wire transfers coming out, starting on 15 November 24th, and on the 27th, and on the 30th. 16 Q. 17 example, what exactly is going on here? 18 A. 19 Wells Fargo, so that's a bank-to-bank money transfer. 20 tell that it's for $30,000 there on the right. 21 second line of the description you see that it's going to BRS 22 Consulting Corp. 23 Q. 24 we're looking at to a BRS Consulting Corp. entity? 25 A. So here, you can see the first half of this section That's a person-to-person transfer of They're going to individuals and to an organization We see also Just focusing you on the one on November 24th, by way of So we see on November 24th a domestic wire transfer to You can And then the So this is just transferring from the Chase entity that Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 Q. 2 November on this document? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And that's all outgoing activity? 5 A. Correct. 6 7 Page 215 of 256 464 Do you see total electronic withdrawals for the month of The total for November is $87,500. MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please turn back to page 6 of this exhibit. 8 And just zoom in on the Checking Summary portion. 9 Thank you. 10 Q. 11 in this one month, in the Mula Apps Corp. Chase account. 12 A. 13 balance of $0. 14 came into that account, and then in the sections that we just 15 covered, a little over 44,000 is out in ATM withdrawals and 16 other withdrawals, and 87,500 coming out in electronic 17 withdrawals. 18 little under 150,000 came in, and at the end of the month, we 19 have an ending balance of $18,308.35. 20 Q. 21 ending balance is just under $20,000? 22 A. Now, Ms. Palmer, could you explain in summary what occurred Sure. So again, this is November. In that month, you see a little over $149,900 So the ending balance -- starting balance of 0, So even with nearly $150,000 coming in that month, the Correct. MR. FELTON: 23 You see beginning Ms. Loftus, let's turn back to Government 24 Exhibit 701, which is in evidence. 25 Q. What is the time period for this document? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 216 of 256 465 1 A. This particular exhibit is reflecting transactions from 2 November 10th of the loan through the end of the account, 3 December 31, 2020. 4 Q. 5 the time period of the bank statement we were just talking 6 about? 7 A. 8 month, and this covers just about two months, a little short of 9 two months. 10 Q. 11 account before the loan came in? 12 A. 13 $29.54. 14 Q. Where was that indicated in your summary chart? 15 A. In the last line of the green square. 16 Q. Now in addition to the cash withdrawals, could you describe 17 other activity taking place with the loan proceeds. 18 A. 19 chart there show the major categories of where the money went. 20 So we have $75,000 that came out in cash withdrawals. 21 the right you see $8,000 in P-to-P. 22 transfers. 23 Zelle, for example. 24 controlled accounts. 25 Q. Just so we're clear, how does this time period compare to The bank statement covered all of November, so just one And what was the account balance in the Mula Apps Chase Before the loan came in on November 10th, the balance was Sure. So the three blue rectangles at the bottom of the Over on That's person-to-person Those are what we saw in the bank statement; like And then $80,100 in transfers to other What do you mean by other controlled accounts? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 217 of 256 466 1 A. I reviewed 23 bank accounts, bank statements for those 2 accounts, and reviewed the characteristics of those accounts, 3 and I found that all of those 23 accounts had at least one 4 characteristic in common with at least one other bank account 5 of those 23, and most of them -- many of them had more than one 6 characteristic in common. 7 on the account, either the individual person or the company, a 8 phone number, Social Security number, an address, the fact that 9 they received money from the same account, the fact that they 10 transferred money to other of these accounts. 11 accounts that I reviewed, I sort of characterize them as 12 controlled accounts, and when I'm referring to those transfers 13 in these charts, I'm referring to transfers among those 23 14 accounts. 15 Q. 16 document? 17 A. 18 account. So my charts are summary. 19 material. And so in addition to the $149,900 that we saw from 20 the loan, another 14,500 came in in this time period, and it's 21 listed there as transfers or P-to-P from other controlled 22 accounts. 23 coming out, that's money coming in from those other -- some of 24 those other 23 accounts back into this account ending in 8959. 25 Q. So those were things like the name So those 23 And what is that gray box on the middle left of the That shows another sort of material income into that I try to show what's So that's similar to what we saw. What we're seeing Ms. Palmer, is it fair to say that this exhibit summarizes SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 the flow of the Mula Apps EIDL loan? 2 A. Page 218 of 256 Yes. MR. FELTON: 3 Ms. Loftus, could we please just turn 4 back to Government Exhibit 700, the original summary exhibit. 5 Q. So we just discussed the first row of this exhibit? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Could you read the second row of this exhibit. 8 A. Sure. 9 organization called Safe Air Charter—-that was the account 10 name—-at Chase Bank, account ending 5103, the user name was 11 David Dilley, and that amount was also $149,900. 12 On November 30, 2020, another loan came in to an MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, let's please publish 13 Government Exhibit 161, which is in evidence. 14 Q. Ms. Palmer, what is this document? 15 A. This is another loan authorization and agreement. MR. FELTON: 16 Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to 17 page 2. 18 paragraph. 19 Q. 20 from the SBA to Safe Air Charter, LLC, with an address in 21 Bayside, New York, in the amount of $150,000? 22 A. Ms. Palmer, do you see where it says that this is a loan Yes. MR. FELTON: 23 24 25 And could you please zoom in on that first full Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to page 7. And Ms. Loftus, could you please zoom in on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 467 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 signature portion. Thank you. 2 Q. Ms. Palmer, who is the signatory of this document? 3 A. This appears to have been signed by John Krokes (ph), the 4 owner-officer. 5 Q. And on what date? 6 A. On November 23, 2020. 7 MR. FELTON: Page 219 of 256 Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 8 Government Exhibit 115, which is in evidence. 9 you. 10 Q. Ms. Palmer, what is the account title of this account? 11 A. This -- again, this is another bank signature card, as we 12 saw before. 13 LLC. 14 Q. And what is the date the account was opened? 15 A. September 25, 2020. 16 Q. And what is the contact person written on the bottom? 17 A. The name, the signature is -- appears to have been from 18 David W. Dilley, listed as member. 19 468 And -- thank This account is in the name of Safe Air Charter, MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to 20 page 10 of this exhibit. And if we could just zoom in on the 21 Deposits and Additions portion. 22 Q. Ms. Palmer, what is the deposit on November 30th? 23 A. This is a deposit on November 30th of $149,900. 24 see, again, that first line, SBA and Treas 310, indicating it's 25 the government deposit coming in. You can You can see in the third SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 220 of 256 469 1 line in the middle that says Safe Air Charter, LLC. 2 the recipient of the deposit. 3 Q. 4 what's that? 5 A. 6 payment from Mula Apps Corp. 7 P-to-P transactions I meant before, via Zelle, that's the name 8 of the app, and then it's coming from the Zelle account in the 9 name of Mula Apps Corp. for $2,500. And what about the transaction above that on November 18th; Just above that, you see it says quick pay with Zelle MR. FELTON: 10 That is So that's, again, where these Let's turn to Government Exhibit 702, 11 which is in evidence, Ms. Loftus. 12 Q. 13 Charter account before the loan came in? 14 A. 15 preloan balance was $1,000. 16 Q. 17 loan proceeds? 18 A. 19 EIDL loan from SBA coming in on November 30, 2020, for 20 $149,900, you see coming into that green rectangle account 21 ending 5103, Safe Air Charter, and then the three blue 22 rectangles, as before, represent where the money went. 23 this case we have $137,000 that was transferred to controlled 24 accounts, as I described earlier, $13,000 in cash and other 25 withdrawals, and $1,700 net P-to-P transfers. Ms. Palmer, what was the account balance in this Safe Air You can see there the bottom of the green rectangle, the And what, if anything, did you observe occurred with the So this flow chart again in the red rectangle showed the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 So in Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 221 of 256 470 1 Q. And just doing quick math, it seems the transactions in the 2 blue effectively are the same or exceed the transaction amounts 3 in the red; is that fair to say? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. So all the money that came in eventually came out? 6 A. Mm-hmm, yes. 7 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please go back to 8 Government Exhibit 700, that original summary chart. 9 Q. 10 document. 11 A. 12 Gold Jets, LLC, at HSBC Bank account ending 7974, with user 13 Jonathan Herttua, into that account went the government loan in 14 the amount of $172,573. Ms. Palmer, could you now read the third row of this Sure. 15 On March 22, 2021, into an account in the name of M2 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 16 Government Exhibit 150, which is in evidence. 17 Q. Ms. Palmer, could you read the title of this document. 18 A. Mm-hmm. 19 20 This is a SBA Paycheck Protection Loan document. MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to page 2. 21 And if you could zoom in on the table there. 22 Q. Ms. Palmer, what's listed as the approved loan amount? 23 A. $172,573. 24 25 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to the next page, which is part of the application form. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 222 of 256 471 And Ms. Loftus, if you could zoom in, I would say on 2 that sort of whole top portion. 3 Q. Ms. Palmer, what's the name of this business? 4 A. It is M2 Gold Jet, LLC. 5 Q. Who is listed as the primary contact in the middle? 6 A. Christopher Potash. 7 Q. How many employees are listed as working there? 8 A. 18. 9 Q. What's listed as the average monthly payroll? 10 A. $69,029.50. 11 Q. And then what's -- what does it say in that activity on the 12 right, that times 2.5 plus EIDL area? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. That's the amount of the requested loan? 15 A. Yes. Do you see that? That is the loan amount that is $172,573.75. This is the application form. 16 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, let's turn to page 5. 17 And if you could zoom in on the signature portion, on 18 the bottom. 19 Q. Ms. Palmer, who is the person who signed this document? 20 A. This appears to have been signed by Christopher Potash, 21 listed as CEO. 22 Q. And on what date? 23 A. On March 18, 2021. 24 25 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please now publish Government Exhibit 132, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 223 of 256 And could you just zoom in on the bank name and on the 2 company legal name. 3 Q. Ms. Palmer, what's the company legal name? 4 A. M2 Gold Jet, LLC. 5 MR. FELTON: And Ms. Loftus, if you could just zoom 6 out. 7 Q. What is the name of the transactional signer? 8 A. Jonathan Herttua, listed as the owner. And then zoom in on the name in the middle of the page. MR. FELTON: 9 10 472 Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to page 17. 11 And Ms. Loftus, could you zoom in on the account name 12 on the top left area. 13 Q. Ms. Palmer, what is the account name? 14 A. This is HSBC account in the name of M2 Gold Jet, LLC. 15 MR. FELTON: And Ms. Loftus, if you could zoom out and 16 then zoom in on the deposit activity. 17 Q. 18 on March 22, 2021, and describe for the jury what you're 19 observing there. 20 A. 21 different from the other ones. 22 withdrawals. 23 of numbers is on March 22nd, and it is for $172,573, and it's 24 listed as cash concentration Cross River Bank SBA loan. 25 Q. Ms. Palmer, could you direct your attention to the activity Sure. So you can tell this bank statement is a little bit It shows both deposits and The only deposit that we see on the left column What do you understand that to be referring to? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 224 of 256 473 1 A. That is the SBA loan of the application that we just saw 2 the government funding coming in. 3 Q. 4 what the account balance was? 5 A. 6 you can tell on the balance column that the balance before the 7 loan came in was $140. 8 Q. What happened on March 26, 2021? 9 A. On the 26th, we can see a large withdrawal coming out. 10 that's four days after the government loan came into this 11 account, you see in the first line of the March 26th 12 transaction, it says Appsensible.com, LLC, and the last four 13 digits of that account number right next to it, 6365. 14 it says on the second line, JPMorgan Chase Bank, and that is a 15 wire transfer. 16 Q. What else do you see occurring on March 26, 2021? 17 A. He has a couple of small debits for food purchases. 18 Q. Did any of those seem to have occurred on March 25th? Before that deposit was made, are you able to determine Sure. 19 So the transaction just before that on March 9th, So You see So we see $140,000 coming out of this account. MR. FELTON: Withdrawn, your Honor. 20 Q. Do you see where it says withdrawal on March 30, 2021? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Could you just please read the entry one row above that. 23 A. Sure. 24 York, New York, for $54.25. 25 Q. So on the 26th, I see a purchase at La Colombe, New Does it provide any other information about that La Colombe SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 225 of 256 1 location? 2 A. NoHo, New York. 3 Q. And does it say 0325 as well? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Going back to the reference to the Appsensible.com LLC 6 transfer, do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Are you familiar with that account? 9 A. Yes. MR. FELTON: 10 474 Ms. Loftus, can you please publish 11 Government Exhibit 112, which is in evidence. 12 Q. Ms. Palmer, what account does this document relate to? 13 A. This is a Chase Bank account, signature document for an 14 account in the name of Appsensible.com, LLC, as you can see on 15 the top left. 16 ending 6365, so this is a document for the account that we just 17 saw referred to on the bank statement. 18 Q. 19 where it lists several telephone numbers? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Could you just read the last four digits of that second 22 telephone number. 23 A. 0642. 24 Q. And what is the printed name? 25 A. Jonathan Herttua listed as member. On the top right, you see the account number And if you see under printed name on the bottom, do you see SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 Q. 2 Date Opened? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What was that date? 5 A. November 27, 2020. MR. FELTON: And Ms. Loftus, can you please turn to page 12. 8 And Ms. Loftus, if you could just zoom in on the 9 Deposits and Additions portion. 10 Q. Now, Ms. Palmer, you see activity on March 26th? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What's occurring there? 13 A. So this is from a bank statement of that Appsensible.com 14 account we just mentioned. 15 March 26th, a deposit of $140,000 coming in. 16 the first line there it says via HSBC Bank into M2 Gold Jets. 17 LLC. 18 Appsensible.com. 19 the opposite end of the transaction we saw coming out of M2 20 Gold Jets. 21 account. 22 Q. 23 bit. 24 25 475 And then towards the top right do you see where it says 6 7 Page 226 of 256 And we show on November -- on You can see in And the second line, you see that it says That's the account receiving it. So this is This is showing it coming into the Appsensible.com Now we'll come back to this Chase Appsensible account in a MR. FELTON: For now, Ms. Loftus, could you please publish Government Exhibit 703, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 227 of 256 1 Q. 2 for? 3 A. 4 of transfers to other controlled accounts. 5 142. 6 Q. And what's the other 2,000? 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. How else were the M2 Gold Jet PPP loan proceeds used? 9 A. We see the 172,572 coming in in the red rectangle, coming 10 into the account in the green rectangle, and then in addition 11 to those transfers we just mentioned, $8,000 came out in net 12 cash withdrawal and $23,000 of other withdrawals. 13 Q. 14 was the account balance? 15 A. $140. 16 Q. Let's turn back to Government Exhibit 700, the original 17 summary exhibit. 18 476 Where in this document is the $140,000 transfer accounted In that bottom left blue rectangle where we have $142,000 That is 140 of this And before this PPP loan came in on March 22, 2021, what And could you please read the fourth row. 19 A. Sure. On March 25, 2021, to an account in the name of 20 Twinway Air Charter Corp., at Citibank ending 2606 with the 21 account of Gerald -- account user of Gerald Hanson. 22 deposited, $20,833. 23 MR. FELTON: It was Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 24 Government Exhibit 152, which is in evidence. 25 Q. Ms. Palmer, what is this document? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 228 of 256 1 A. This is a Small Business Administration promissory note. 2 Q. What is the amount of the loan? 3 A. $20,833. 4 Q. What is the name of the borrower? 5 A. Nathanal Salnick. 6 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to 7 page 10. 8 Q. Ms. Palmer, who signed for this loan? 9 A. It appears to be signed by Nathanal Salnick, sole 10 proprietor. 11 Q. On what date? 12 A. On March 23, 2021. 13 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to 14 page 11, the application. 15 Q. 16 name? 17 A. The business legal name is Nathanal Salnick. 18 Q. And do you see where it says d/b/a or trade name, if 19 applicable, up to the top and right of that? 20 A. 21 Twinway Air Charter. 22 Q. And what is listed as the total amount of gross income? 23 A. The gross income is listed as $890,395. 24 25 And Ms. Palmer, what is the name of the business legal Yes. So above that is, the business is doing business as MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish Government Exhibit 121, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 477 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 229 of 256 478 And could you please zoom in on the top 1/3 of this 2 page. 3 Q. 4 Citibank account, if you see that in the top right corner 5 there? 6 A. 7 Air Charter Corp. 8 Q. Who was listed as the primary contact on this document? 9 A. Gerald Hanson. 10 Q. And what appears to be the annual gross revenue listed on 11 this document? 12 A. Ms. Palmer, what is the business name associated with this This is an application from the business name of Twinway This lists $3 million as the annual gross revenue. 13 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, if we could keep this portion 14 of the exhibit up of Government Exhibit 121 and also publish 15 Government Exhibit 152 so that they're side by side. Thank you. 16 17 Q. Now, Ms. Palmer, are both of these documents relating to 18 Twinway Air Charters Corp.? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Does the document on the left, Government Exhibit 152, 21 claim that someone named Nathanal Salnick is the sole 22 proprietor and 100 percent owner of the business? 23 A. Yes, this page shows him as the borrower. 24 Q. Does Government Exhibit 121 instead list someone named 25 Gerald Hanson as the contact for the business? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 230 of 256 1 A. It does. 2 Q. On the left does Government Exhibit 152 -- 3 MR. FELTON: 4 page of Government Exhibit 152. 5 Yes, this page. 479 If we could just go to maybe the second Keep scrolling down, please. Thank you, Ms. Loftus. 6 Q. 7 11, that $890,395 is the business's total gross income? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. How about looking to the right, Government Exhibit 121, do 10 you see where it lists an annual gross revenue, in the top of 11 that document? 12 A. 13 Do you see where it says in Government Exhibit 152, page Yes, so the -MR. FELTON: Could we please just blow up the annual 14 gross revenue. Thank you. 15 Q. And what is that number listed as? 16 A. This is showing the bank -- the account application for the 17 bank shows Twinway Air Charter Corp. with an annual gross 18 revenue of $3 million, and the Paycheck Protection Program 19 application on the left for Twinway Air Charter shows the gross 20 income as just over $890,000. 21 MR. FELTON: 22 Government Exhibit 121 only. And if we could just now pull up And go to page 3, Ms. Loftus. And could you please zoom in on the account opening 23 24 information. 25 Q. Who is listed as the signature -- signatory here? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 A. 2 president. 3 Q. And on what date? 4 A. On September 28, 2020. Page 231 of 256 480 This appears to be signed by Gerald Hanson, listed as 5 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 6 Government Exhibit 704, which is in evidence. 7 Q. 8 being used? 9 A. 10 into that Citibank checking account ending in 2606 in the name 11 of Twinway Air Charter Corp., and the two major categories of 12 where the money went out of this account were $9,000 of 13 transfers to controlled accounts and $15,000 of cash 14 withdrawal. 15 Q. 16 in? 17 A. $125.59. 18 Q. And did ultimately more money leave the account than came 19 in from the PPP loan? 20 A. 21 22 Ms. Palmer, how did you observe the funds from this loan So this shows the PPP loan of $20,833 in the red coming And what was the preloan balance before the PPP loan came Yes. MR. FELTON: If we could just go back now to Government Exhibit 700. 23 Your Honor, in light of the timing, I would just 24 inquire of the Court if you'd like me to keep going or -- 25 THE COURT: I was trying to keep you going to get SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct through the five loans. MR. FELTON: 2 Page 232 of 256 Do you have more than that? I do. There are some exchanges between 3 the accounts and other summary charts. 4 loan, but there is maybe 20 minutes more after that. 5 6 THE COURT: All right. jury's preference is. So there is a fifth Let me just see what the We can go off the record. 7 (Discussion off the record) 8 THE COURT: 9 481 All right. Let's keep going. Thank you all very much. MR. FELTON: 10 Thank you, your Honor. 11 BY MR. FELTON: 12 Q. Now, Ms. Palmer, could you just read the fifth row here. 13 A. Sure. 14 an account in the name of BRS Consulting Corp., at Capital One, 15 account ending 8262, the account user of Jonathan Herttua was 16 deposited a loan in the amount of $531,218. The fifth line represents that on May 19, 2021, into MR. FELTON: 17 Ms. Loftus, could we please publish 18 Government Exhibit 154, which is in evidence, and turn to 19 page 3. 20 Q. Ms. Palmer, what is this document? 21 A. This is an SBA promissory note. 22 Q. And what is the loan amount? 23 A. $531,218. 24 Q. Who is the lender? 25 A. Capital One. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 Q. Who is the borrower? 2 A. BRS Consulting Corp. 3 Q. And what is the date? 4 A. May 15, 2021. 5 6 MR. FELTON: Page 233 of 256 482 Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to page 6. 7 And please zoom in on the signature area. 8 Q. Ms. Palmer, who is listed as the signer here? 9 A. This appears to have been signed by Jonathan Herttua, 10 listed as CEO, on May 16, 2021. 11 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could we please publish 12 Government Exhibit 705, which is in evidence. 13 Q. 14 exhibit. 15 A. 16 of $531,218 coming in in the red rectangle from the SBA, into 17 the Capital One checking account ending 8262 there in green, 18 and then three major areas where this money flowed was $406,000 19 into Coinbase, $100,000 to a specific named individual, and 20 $22,000 of transfers to controlled accounts and cash 21 withdrawals. 22 Q. 23 let's take a quick look at this Capital One account. 24 25 And Ms. Palmer, could you just walk us through this Sure. This is the BRS Consulting loan. We see the amount Before we look at Coinbase and some of that other activity, MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you publish Government Exhibit 102, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 234 of 256 1 Q. And Ms. Palmer, what is the name on this account? 2 A. Jonathan Herttua and BRS Consulting Corp. 3 Q. What are the last four digits of the debit card number? 4 A. 5953. 5 MR. FELTON: 6 And if we could just zoom in on the account detail 483 Ms. Loftus, let's turn to page 50. 7 information, the bottom half of the page. 8 Q. Ms. Palmer, do you see any withdrawals to Coinbase here? 9 A. I do. 10 to Coinbase; on May 20th, we see another $25,000 to Coinbase; 11 and on May 21st, another $24,800 to Coinbase. 12 Q. To your knowledge, what is Coinbase? 13 A. Coinbase is a virtual currency exchange, so virtual 14 currency, digital currency, cryptocurrencies -- probably heard 15 of Bitcoin. 16 people can open an account and buy and sell and send and 17 receive virtual currencies. 18 bank account, in this case this Capital One account, and you 19 can send money to that Coinbase account and also withdraw money 20 from Coinbase and put it back into your traditional bank 21 account. 22 I do. On May 19th, we see a withdrawal of $25,000 That's the main one. MR. FELTON: This is an exchange where So you connect it to a traditional Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can take the 23 exhibit off the screen. 24 Q. 25 accounts so far, and you've mentioned transfers to controlled Ms. Palmer, we've looked at a number of different bank SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 235 of 256 484 1 accounts. Approximately how many accounts again did you review 2 that transfers were made between? 3 A. I reviewed 23 accounts. 4 Q. Approximately how many transfers did you observe in total? 5 A. I counted over 140 transfers from one account to another 6 among those 23 accounts. 7 Q. And how long a time period, approximately? 8 A. In around a year. 9 Q. Let's go to Government Exhibit 102, which is in evidence, 10 the BRS Consulting account. 11 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, please turn to page 36. I'm 12 sorry. 13 Q. 14 December 2020? 15 A. 16 account that we just saw the money coming into. 17 2020, we see ATM withdrawals frequently. 18 4th, a thousand dollars; another thousand dollars on the 4th; 19 we see 2,000, 2,000, another $2,000, ATM withdrawals. 20 these are cash withdrawals. 21 withdrawal on December 8th. 22 Q. Do you see where it notes ATM withdrawals? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Where are those ATMs located? 25 A. We have -- they're all in New York. And Ms. Palmer, what sorts of transactions occurred in This is the bank statement for that BRS Consulting Corp. In December of So starting on the Again, I see also $9,000 customer SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 2 MR. FELTON: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 236 of 256 485 Let's turn to page 42 of this same exhibit. And if you could just zoom in on the account detail, 3 4 Ms. Loftus. 5 Q. 6 February 2021? 7 A. 8 coming in. 9 with a couple of ATM cash deposits for several thousand 10 dollars, over 8,000, over 4,000 coming in, we have a transfer 11 from another account, that's in one of these transfers among 12 the controlled accounts, more cash deposits. 13 and 10th, we see four more ATM cash deposits coming in of 14 several thousand dollars. 15 Q. And what about the withdrawals? 16 A. On the withdrawals side, we see money going out to 17 Coinbase. 18 $500, $15,000 going to Coinbase on the 8th, on the same day, 19 another $300 going to Coinbase. 20 MR. FELTON: What sorts of deposits does this account receive in So the same account, February 2021, we have cash deposits So you see in the Deposits/Credits column, starting On the 8th, 9th, So the 4th and 5th, we have two withdrawals for Let's go back to Government Exhibit 113, 21 the Mula Apps account, which is in evidence, Ms. Loftus. 22 let's turn to page 23. And If we could just zoom in on the checking summary. 23 24 Q. Ms. Palmer, what does this account summary show happens in 25 this account during this month? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 237 of 256 486 1 A. This shows the beginning balance of under $60 in the 2 account, we see a hundred -- a little over $165,000 coming in, 3 and then between the ATM debit card and electronic withdrawals, 4 about $165,000 coming out, leaving an ending balance of $40, a 5 little bit less than the beginning balance. 6 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could we zoom out and just 7 zoom in on the time frame on the top of this page. 8 Q. 9 this time period here of January 30th to February 26th, 2021? 10 A. 11 12 So does that activity summary you just mentioned refer to Yes. MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to the next page. 13 And zoom in on the Deposits and Additions. 14 Q. 15 What's happening there? 16 A. 17 of February, you see, just by looking at it, several ATM cash 18 deposits. 19 are clumped together. 20 Again, Ms. Palmer, what are the ATM cash deposits here? So this -- in a period from the 1st of February to the 26th They are different locations around New York. They So for example, on February 2nd, we have three ATM 21 cash deposits at the same location for over $2,000; on the 3rd, 22 we see several ATM cash deposits at at least three -- three 23 different locations, for several thousand dollars; and we see 24 repeated this pattern of several ATM cash deposits the same 25 days, and then over the month, you see how many locations. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 And Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 238 of 256 1 within this month, at the bottom you see a total of $165,000 2 being deposited in cash, mostly cash. 3 Q. 4 there are cash deposits at a Hillside Avenue location in 5 Jamaica, New York? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you also see other activity occurring at that Hillside 8 Avenue location in Jamaica, New York, on February 23rd? 9 A. On February 3rd, do you see where, among other locations, Yes. MR. FELTON: 10 11 Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to page 25. 12 And could you just zoom in on the electronic 13 withdrawals. 14 Q. Ms. Palmer, what's occurring here? 15 A. This shows two types of transactions. 16 first several transactions show transfers to another bank 17 account. 18 6365. 19 for $20,000, each within a matter of three days. 20 see on the February 8th we have two transfers to Coinbase for 21 $300 and for $50. They're all transferred to checking account ending MR. FELTON: And then we And Ms. Loftus, if we could go down to the next page. And just zoom in on the top, Electronic Withdrawals 24 25 So the beginning of You see the amounts varying from $25,000 and two of them 22 23 487 portion. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 239 of 256 488 1 Q. Ms. Palmer, is this just a continuation of additional 2 electronic withdrawals in that month? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What, if anything, do you notice about the account number 5 of those transactions from February 11th through February 24th? 6 A. These are all transfers to account ending 6365. 7 Q. Is that the same account number we saw on the previous 8 page? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you know what that account is? 11 A. That's the Appsensible.com, LLC account. 12 MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please display that 13 Appsensible 6365 account, Government Exhibit 112, which was 14 previously displayed and is in evidence. 15 And could you just -- thank you, Ms. Loftus. 16 Q. What are the last four digits of the account number, 17 Ms. Palmer? 18 A. 6365. 19 Q. What's the account title? 20 A. Appsensible.com, LLC. 21 Q. And if you look at the printed name, what is that? 22 A. It appears to have been signed by Jonathan Herttua as 23 member. 24 Q. 25 telephone number? And again, what are the last four digits of that second SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 A. Page 240 of 256 489 0642. MR. FELTON: 2 3 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Ms. Loftus, could we please turn to page 12. 4 And zoom in to the Deposits and Additions portion. 5 Q. Ms. Palmer, what deposits came in this month? 6 A. In this month you see three transfers coming in from 7 account ending 8959 for 18,000, 3,000, and $20,100; and then we 8 also see, on the 26th, from HSBC Bank, $140,000 coming in that 9 we looked at before. 10 MR. FELTON: 11 Ms. Loftus, can you turn to the next page, page 13. 12 And zoom in on the Electronic Withdrawals portion. 13 Q. Now, Ms. Palmer, what electronic withdrawals took place 14 here? 15 A. 16 month of March after all that money had just come in that we 17 just looked at, so we see online transfers to other accounts, 18 we see money going out to account 8959 for a thousand dollars, 19 $50,000. 20 March 4th, you see $20,000 going out; March 17th, another 21 20,000; and on March 29th, $50,000 going to Robinhood. 22 Q. What is Robinhood, to your knowledge? 23 A. Robinhood is an investment platform. 24 you can buy and sell cryptocurrencies; you can also buy and 25 sell the more traditional stocks. Okay. So these are the withdrawals that came out in the And we also see three transfers out to Robinhood. On Similar to Coinbase, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct 1 Q. 2 nontraditional accounts that you reviewed? 3 A. 4 of regular checking and savings accounts. 5 we mentioned, Robinhood, and Charles Schwab. 6 Q. Page 241 of 256 490 Ms. Palmer, what were the main investment accounts or Sure. There are three that we looked at that were outside So the Coinbase that Ms. Loftus, could you please publish Government? 7 MR. FELTON: 8 that is in evidence. Exhibit 252, which is a Coinbase record And once it's opened, please zoom in to the top left. 9 10 Actually, no, that's fine. 11 Q. Ms. Palmer, do you see the name of the user? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And an email? 14 A. Mm-hmm. 15 Q. And a date and time it was created? 16 A. This shows that the Coinbase account was created on 17 January 8, 2021. 18 It says Jonathan Herttua. Appserdinc@gmail.com. MR. FELTON: 19 50, please. 20 Q. 21 Roe 50? 22 A. What are the last four digits of that phone number there in 0642. MR. FELTON: 23 Ms. Loftus, could you scroll down to row If you could also scroll down to rows 60 24 through 62, Ms. Loftus. 25 Q. What bank accounts, Ms. Palmer, were cited here? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 242 of 256 491 1 A. 2 mentioned, you can connect your regular banking account to 3 Coinbase, and so this shows the Chase account ending 8959, and 4 the Capital One account ending 8262. 5 This shows that, attached to the Coinbase account, as I MR. FELTON: And if we, Ms. Loftus, scroll up to rows 6 23, 25, and 26. 7 Q. 8 verified? 9 A. 10 driver's license and photo identification in the name of 11 Jonathan Herttua. 12 Ms. Palmer, how, if at all, does this account appear to be This appears that Coinbase verified the account with MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 13 Government Exhibit 253, which is in evidence, which is a 14 Coinbase file associated with the account we were just looking 15 at. Could you zoom in on the photograph. 16 17 Q. Ms. Palmer, what does this appear to be? 18 A. This is the image that Coinbase provided related to that 19 line in Excel we just saw. 20 in the name of Jonathan Herttua. 21 Q. 22 is that your understanding? 23 A. 24 25 This is a New Jersey identification And this was submitted for account verification purposes; Correct. MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to Government Exhibit 351, which is in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Q. Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 243 of 256 492 And this is a record from Robinhood, Ms. Palmer. MR. FELTON: 2 Ms. Loftus, could you zoom in on the left 3 side, bottom half. 4 Q. 5 user. 6 A. Sure. 7 Q. And what are the last four digits of the phone number 8 listed there? 9 A. Ms. Palmer, can you please read the name of the account It's Jonathan Herttua. 0642. MR. FELTON: 10 Ms. Loftus, could you please turn to 11 page 7. And zoom in just the text, please. 12 Q. 13 Robinhood account? 14 A. 15 account. 16 Q. And who is the bank account holder name? 17 A. Jonathan Herttua. Ms. Palmer, what bank account is associated with the The bank account ending 6365, which is the Appsensible.com 18 MR. FELTON: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. 19 Could you please publish Government Exhibit 708, which 20 is also in evidence. 21 Q. 22 at this document, please walk us through what this shows. 23 A. 24 that we just talked about. 25 of the SBA money coming in, over $1,024,000, from November 20th All right. Sure. So Ms. Palmer, taking a step back, just looking So this is a summary flow chart of all that money The red rectangle shows the total SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Palmer - Direct Page 244 of 256 493 1 to May -- from November 2020 through May 2021, going into those 2 five recipient bank accounts that we discussed, detailed in the 3 green. 4 The first movement that we've discussed most, a lot of this 5 detail, shows the major categories, starting from the left, 6 500,000 went to Coinbase, 570,000 was transferred to other 7 accounts, $30,000 went to Charles Schwab, $100,000 went to a 8 named individual, and 14,500 went to unidentified recipients or 9 other accounts. And this shows sort of two layers of movement of money. In that second darker blue layer discussing 10 11 specifically those transfers to controlled accounts, I 12 mentioned before how there were over 140 transfers among all 13 these accounts. 14 230,000 went to Robinhood, 115,000 were continued transfers to 15 other accounts, 1,000 more went to Coinbase, 10,000 more went 16 to Charles Schwab, and 5,000 more to unidentified other 17 recipients or accounts. 18 Q. 19 stems from transfers to controlled accounts row or entry 20 thereto, right? 21 A. 22 $570,000 in the lighter blue line. 23 Q. 24 to controlled accounts but not the five recipient accounts 25 directly. So of that $570,000, the money moved again and And so I'm clear, this bottom row in darker blue, that all Correct. So the darker blue is all coming out of the So Robinhood, for instance, only comes out of the transfers SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Filed 11/18/22 Page 245 of 256 494 1 A. 2 are in that -- were the ones that received money directly, 3 right, and we showed before that money went to the 4 Appsensible.com account indirectly from the SBA accounts, as 5 through these five, and then from there, 230 went into 6 Robinhood. 7 Correct. Document 96 So the green accounts that we discussed in detail MR. FELTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish 8 Government Exhibit 709. Final exhibit. 9 Q. Ms. Palmer, what are you trying to show with this exhibit? 10 A. This is just another visual to show you in general where 11 all that money went. 12 government money that went into these five accounts, at the end 13 of the day, over $480,000, 47 percent or so, went to Coinbase, 14 230,000 into Robinhood, again, that $100,000 to individual, and 15 the sort of the smaller categories, 40,000 going into Schwab 16 and other just -- almost $60,000 of net cash withdrawals. 17 of all that million dollars, $1,024,000, 69 percent of it or so 18 went to Coinbase and Robinhood, a few $10,000 in debit 19 purchases. So of the over million dollars of So 20 MR. FELTON: One moment, your Honor? 21 THE COURT: Sure. 22 MR. FELTON: No further questions. 23 THE COURT: All right. 24 All right. So we're going to break for the day now. 25 Thank you. We'll pick up with cross in the morning. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 246 of 256 1 Ms. Palmer, you remain under oath, so please do not 2 discuss your testimony with anybody over the evening recess. 3 All right? 4 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for sticking 5 with us so we could finish up the direct. 6 notebooks either on your chairs or in the jury assembly room, 7 whichever you'd prefer. 8 discuss the case. 9 And please have a good evening, everyone. Please leave your And I remind you again please do not Please do not do any research on the case. So just to update you, our expectation is that we will 10 11 finish the evidence tomorrow. 12 to give you my instructions on the law tomorrow, although I 13 can't guarantee that. 14 expectation. And once I do that, then you'll begin 15 deliberating. All right? But that is our hope and our much. Thank you very 9:30 tomorrow morning. 18 (Jury not present) 19 THE COURT: 20 It's my hope that I will be able So have a good evening, everybody. 16 17 Thank you. All right. Ms. Palmer, you may step down. And everyone else, please be seated. 21 Do we have any updates with respect to Mr. Recamier? 22 MS. MURRAY: 23 coming tomorrow, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: 25 495 He's confirmed with the Marshals to be Okay. All right. So you've told Mr. Greenwald in the morning, Mr. Brill? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 MR. BRILL: Filed 11/18/22 I did, your Honor. Page 247 of 256 Just, I guess we 2 should figure out exactly what I should tell him now. 3 Government has a couple more witnesses, it looks like. 4 5 THE COURT: 496 Well, I think after this there's one remaining witness, right? 6 MS. MURRAY: Mr. Bateman was one of the short 7 witnesses today. We moved Ms. Palmer up to try to get her 8 direct completed. Mr. Bateman is going to be maybe 15 to 20 9 minutes, and then Special Agent Hezir is the government's last 10 witness and, as I mentioned, maybe two and a half to three 11 hours, at most. 12 lot of electronic evidence. 13 as possible, and we'll see how we're able to slim that down, if 14 at all. 15 He's a summary witness. THE COURT: He's bringing in a But we will move as expeditiously You probably want to work on it a little 16 bit tonight because as I said, the evidence needs to conclude 17 tomorrow. 18 19 20 21 22 MS. MURRAY: Yes. Understood, your Honor. Are you anticipating closing arguments tomorrow as well? THE COURT: I had hoped, but it doesn't look like that's likely to happen. MS. MURRAY: Okay. I just wanted to clarify. The 23 government's case in chief, we will certainly rest tomorrow. 24 There's no question. 25 THE COURT: Yes. But there is more to the case, as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 248 of 256 1 you know, and as we've been discussing, you represented you 2 thought the week would suffice. 3 you can do tonight. 4 MS. MURRAY: 497 So you might want to see what Just -- and I apologize, your Honor. I'm 5 just not maybe following. 6 in chief and the defense case ends tomorrow, is it the Court's 7 contemplation that closing arguments would also be completed 8 tomorrow as part of the evidence? THE COURT: 9 But if the government ends its case Well, I think you need to be prepared to 10 go, because I just can't gauge how long things are going to go 11 based on the representations that you're making to me. 12 So the next question I have, though, is: 13 assuming Mr. Recamier gets here tomorrow morning, are you 14 wanting to continue with all of the government's case and then 15 deal with this issue of whether he's going to invoke? 16 thought was that we would deal with him first thing in the 17 morning. 18 If he's not, then I suppose it creates an issue for the 19 Marshals. 20 you're ready for him. 21 Mr. Brill, Or my If he's going to invoke, we might as well know that. We'll have to have him in a holding cell until MR. BRILL: I'll certainly be guided by the Court, 22 your Honor. I think the government had previously stated a 23 preference to finish its case before we dealt with that, but 24 obviously that's -- we defer to you. 25 unclear about what the government's estimate is. I just still am a little SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 The cross of Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 249 of 256 this witness is not going to be very long. 2 THE COURT: Okay. 3 MR. BRILL: So then the question is really in terms 4 498 of -- Bateman I understand will be quite short. 5 THE COURT: And then they told me two and a half to 6 three hours, and I'm suggesting they need to try to crisp it 7 up. 8 MS. MURRAY: Understood, your Honor. We will do what 9 we can. 10 significant electronic evidence tied directly to Mr. Ilori and 11 devices that were recovered from him at his arrest, but we 12 certainly will. 13 This is an important summary witness who's bringing in In any event, given the timing, barring an unforeseen 14 delay with the jury and/or if we handle Mr. Recamier in the 15 morning and that starts us off late, the government fully 16 believes it will be resting before lunchtime. MR. BRILL: So it's probably going to be right at 19 THE COURT: Seems like it. 20 MS. MURRAY: That's correct. 21 MR. BRILL: So I can either tell Mr. Greenwald to be 17 18 lunch. 22 here first thing and then the jury will be waiting, assuming 23 they get here on time. 24 25 THE COURT: Well, that's why I've told them 9:30 and thought -SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 2 3 MR. BRILL: Document 96 Right. Filed 11/18/22 Page 250 of 256 Or we can deal with it at the lunch hour. THE COURT: Maybe the Marshals can help me with this. 4 I mean, I assume he's being brought here in the morning, that 5 you don't have an option for him to show up in the afternoon. 6 THE MARSHAL: 7 THE COURT: That's normally the case, your Honor. That's normally the case. 8 you able to just hold him then? 9 THE MARSHAL: 10 11 I would believe so. Yeah. So are I'll check with management and get back to the AUSA and let them know. THE COURT: That's really the determinative factor, 12 Mr. Brill. 13 government's case and get it finished. 14 499 If he can wait, then we can proceed with the MR. BRILL: Generally when I have afternoon 15 appearances, my clients are usually produced in the morning and 16 just sit here. 17 THE COURT: Just? 18 MR. BRILL: Sit here. 19 THE COURT: Sit here. All right. So I'm fine doing 20 that if that's your preference, and then you can tell 21 Mr. Greenwald to be here right after the lunch break tomorrow 22 and we'll deal with this. 23 24 25 MR. BRILL: Maybe I'll tell him just to be here at 1 so in case if they rest, we might be able to hit it right then. THE COURT: Sure. That's fine. And then we'll deal SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 251 of 256 1 with that issue. 2 understanding there is no other evidence that the defense 3 wishes to offer, right? 4 5 500 And if he's going to invoke, then it's my MR. BRILL: Obviously Mr. Ilori always has the option, and I have to consult with him -- 6 THE COURT: Of course. 7 MR. BRILL: -- at the very end -- 8 THE COURT: Yes. 9 MR. BRILL: -- and then ask the Court to make a brief 11 THE COURT: Absolutely. 12 MR. BRILL: Thank you, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: But then if that's what transpires, if the 10 Yes. inquiry. 14 government finishes its case right before lunch and then we 15 deal with Mr. Recamier and he invokes, and Mr. Ilori opts not 16 to testify, you should be prepared to go into summations. 17 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. And just to be clear, 18 so then after lunch, after Mr. Recamier invokes, presumably, we 19 would do the charge conference and then summations? 20 THE COURT: Yes. Well, the one thing -- that's the 21 next thing I want to talk to you all about. It's my 22 understanding that the proposed charges as I have them now are 23 on consent, correct? 24 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 25 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 1 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 252 of 256 THE COURT: All right. So you ought to be looking at 501 2 them tonight to see if there are any modifications you want to 3 propose, including you have bracketed things saying "if 4 applicable." 5 the close of the case, but I think you have a general sense. 6 And let me know where we're at. 7 charging conference, which doesn't need to be very long, unless 8 there are some new problems. 9 MS. MURRAY: 10 11 Obviously you don't know fully until we get to But yes, then we'll have a Correct? Yes, your Honor. We will absolutely be prepared for summations tomorrow. THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Brill, is that accurate in 12 terms of what you're envisioning? 13 for a very long charging conference. 14 MR. BRILL: Agreed. 15 THE COURT: Okay. 16 17 We don't foresee any. In other words, not a need All right. So that's the tentative game plan for tomorrow. All right. I really would like to finish with at 18 least what you need to do tomorrow. 19 jury, you heard me tell them, I'd like to try to charge them. 20 I'm not convinced that's going to happen, but we'll see. 21 MS. MURRAY: Understood. If I could charge the Again, your Honor, we do 22 anticipate that we will be resting by lunch, and given that 23 there aren't so many variables with just a very short witness 24 and a known witness, I have no reason to believe we won't be 25 able to do that, barring anything unforeseen. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 THE COURT: All right. So that's where we're at. 1 Page 253 of 256 502 I 2 mean, my only reason for kind of holding off on the Greenwald 3 issue is if we have some of the jurors late in the morning, we 4 could deal with this in the morning. 5 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, one proposal, if I may, 6 subject to obviously the Court and the court reporters' 7 availability, we'd be happy to start earlier than 9:30, if 8 Mr. Recamier were available and if we could try to handle -THE COURT: 9 10 9:30. I doubt he's going to get here before Is that likely? 11 THE MARSHAL: It's unlikely. 12 THE COURT: Yeah. 13 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: I mean, you know, in theory we could do That's what I assumed. 15 the charging conference, but I shouldn't really do that till 16 you finish with your evidence. 17 there's anything we can accomplish. 18 I appreciate the thought, but I don't really know what we can 19 do before 9:30. 20 is prepared to be. 21 deal with that issue, so that we don't lose more time. 22 23 So I don't really know that I thought about that, and So I don't know how cooperative Mr. Greenwald But as I say, if a juror is late, we could MR. BRILL: I think I just have to inquire (A) if he can come at 1 -- 24 THE COURT: 25 he can come at 9:30. Well, better yet, why don't you inquire if SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV MAR1ILO2 1 2 MR. BRILL: Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 254 of 256 503 That's what he was prepared to do previously. THE COURT: 3 Or 9:00 even, and go as soon as we're all 4 here and ready in case some of the jurors aren't here, and then 5 would he be willing to leave and come back at 1 if we're ready 6 to move forward with the actual evidence. 7 an imposition on him. 8 MR. BRILL: I can ask. 9 THE COURT: Okay. 10 I mean, I know it's And then if you just let us know, Mr. Brill. 11 MR. BRILL: Yes, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: All right. I appreciate it. I'm just 13 trying to make maximum use of each minute of the time we have 14 available. 15 All right. So then we'll stand adjourned, and we'll 16 wait to hear from you, Mr. Brill, on how flexible Mr. Greenwald 17 will be. Okay? Thank you very much. 18 ALL COUNSEL: 19 THE COURT: 20 (Adjourned to October 28, 2022, at 9:30 a.m.) Thank you, your Honor. Have a good night, everyone. 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV Document 96 1 Filed 11/18/22 Page 255 of 256 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 2 Examination of: Page 3 HARRY LIDSKY 4 Direct By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . . 258 5 Cross By Mr. Brill . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 344 6 Redirect By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . 392 7 Recross By Mr. Brill . . . . . . . . . . . . . 408 8 SAMANTHA AARON 9 Direct By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . . 418 10 Cross By Mr. Brill . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 429 11 RANDY MARTIN 12 Direct By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . . 431 13 WILLIAM JAMIESON 14 Direct By Mr. Felton . . . . . . . . . . . . . 442 15 ELIZABETH PALMER 16 Direct By Mr. Felton . . . . . . . . . . . . . 452 GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS 17 18 Exhibit No. 19 500, 501, and 502 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 263 20 580 through 595 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 315 21 10, 11, 13, 550 through 555 22 22 and 23 23 630, 660, 661, 671, 520 . . . . . . . . . . . 332 24 25 Received . . . . . . . . 319 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 331 through 526, 530 through 532 5, 282 through 284 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 338 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 504 Case 1:21-cr-00746-MKV Document 96 Filed 11/18/22 Page 256 of 256 1 700 through 709 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 299 3 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 281 4 70 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 282 5 740-C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 393 6 750 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 342 7 3519-0002 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 456 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 428 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 505
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