Court filing
Judgment — United States v. Tracy D. Wade (Dkt. 274, S.D. Fla. No. 0:23-cr-60173)
Filed May 22, 2025 in United States v. Tracy D. Wade; one of 133 filings from this case.
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2025-05-22 |
U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida · No. 0:23-cr-60173-KMW · Doc. 274 · 2025-05-22 · Docket on CourtListener
Full text
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 23-CR-60173-KMW UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, vs. CAROLYN DENISE WADE and TRACY D. WADE, Defendants. _______________________________ ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) Fort Lauderdale, Florida July 15, 2024 Pages 1 to 54 TRANSCRIPT OF GARCIA/RULE 44(C) HEARING HELD BEFORE THE HONORABLE JARED M. STRAUSS UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE FOR THE GOVERNMENT: ALICIA SHICK, AUSA United States Attorney's Office ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS: DARYL E. WILCOX, ESQ. LANCE W. STEINBEISSER, FCRR, RPR, FPR-C Transcriber United States District Court 400 North Miami Avenue Miami, Florida 33128 305.523.5633 Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography from a digital audio recording; transcript produced by computer-aided transcription. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 1 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 2 (Call to the Order of the Court.) THE COURT: This is Tracy D. Wade. It's Case Number 23-60173. Could I please have your appearance from the Government? MS. SHICK: Good morning, Your Honor, Alicia Shick on behalf of the United States. THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Shick. And on behalf of the defense. MR. WILCOX: Good morning, Your Honor. Daryl Wilcox on behalf of Tracy D. Wade. He's present in court, seated in the gallery. THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Wilcox. Good morning, Mr. Wade. So, Mr. Wilcox, we're here for a report re: counsel and arraignment. What's the status of your representation for Mr. Wade? MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, we have not yet filed a permanent appearance, but we can do so by the end of business today. THE COURT: Okay. All right. But you plan on filing the permanent appearance? MR. WILCOX: Absolutely. THE COURT: Okay. Then what I'd like to do -- Ms. Shick, Mr. Snider had indicated at the time of Mr. Wade's Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 2 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 3 initial appearance the Government would be moving for a Garcia hearing if Mr. Wilcox was going to represent both Mr. Wade and Mrs. Wade. Is that still the Government's position? MS. SHICK: Yes, Your Honor. And to that point, Mr. Snider had planned to be here today, but he was detained in Texas and his flight got canceled. So he's currently either on the plane or about to board another plane. He had asked, with the Court's permission -- I had spoken to Mr. Wilcox about it, but he objected. I'm not sure why -- but he wanted to continue the Garcia hearing until tomorrow only because he has the most information about any potential or actual conflict that might exist between the parties. I have some information from what I was able to get from him this morning, but I didn't know he wasn't going to be appearing until, again, an hour ago. THE COURT: Sure. MS. SHICK: So that was his request, that if we're going to move forward with a permanent appearance by Mr. Wilcox that we continue the Garcia hearing by one day. THE COURT: Okay. And, Mr. Wilcox, what's your position on -- MR. WILCOX: Well, let me first tell you why we didn't want a continuance to tomorrow, because my clients would like to get it done today. THE COURT: Sure. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 3 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 4 MR. WILCOX: That's the only reason. With respect to -- did she mention anything about an independent counsel advising Mr. Wade because we're -- I don't see the necessity -- MS. SHICK: I haven't mentioned it yet, Your Honor. I mean, that was Mr. Snider's request because -- and I do have a case to hand up to Your Honor that Judge Goodman had done a very detailed colloquy between a husband and wife on a Garcia hearing. And even in that case where there was no actual conflict, the individuals had independent counsel to advise them of a potential conflict. So the Government certainly doesn't object to joint representation. The objection is, if they're going to do it, he really needs to understand what it is that he's waiving. And my understanding is that Ms. Wade already went to trial. He testified in her favor -- THE COURT: Right. MS. SHICK: -- so, at best, he's a witness in her favor and now he's an indicted coconspirator. So clearly that changes the name of the game here. And he needs to be aware that throughout the course of the trial certainly conflicts can come up. If there's going to be a "he said, she said," if it's going to be "I'm going to blame you and you're going to blame me," I mean, I don't know how a counsel jointly could represent both parties in that instance. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 4 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 5 In Goodman's case, which I have here -- and I'll just cite just for the record, and I can hand it up to the Court. It's United States versus Robaina, R-O-B-A-I-N-A. It's 2013, WL 3243368. MR. WILCOX: Excuse me. MS. SHICK: Yeah. MR. WILCOX: Is it a published opinion? MS. SHICK: It's a nonreported -- MR. WILCOX: Okay. MS. SHICK: -- but it was Judge Goodman's. It was really just more of a guide for Judge Strauss if he wanted to see how that was handled and -- THE COURT: Certainly the colloquy, I think -- the Garcia hearing colloquy certainly requires that the Court offer the defendants independent counsel to advise them on the issue and for exactly the reasons the Government's mentioning. Is it your position, Ms. Shick, that offering that is insufficient and the Court actually has to appoint counsel for them, or is it enough to simply advise them that independent counsel is available should they want to consult with independent counsel? MS. SHICK: I think it's the latter, Judge. I don't think there's any actual requirement. I think it's up to the parties. But I think Mr. Snider's position was he was very Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 5 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 6 uncomfortable given the fact that Mr. Wade was a witness in favor of his wife at the prior trial. He intimated to me that he believed there might be an actual conflict that exists, which didn't exist in the other case in front of Judge Goodman, although Judge Goodman did go through all the hypotheticals of potentially what could happen. So whether there was an actual conflict or not, I think that's something, again, that Mr. Snider can speak more intelligently about that. THE COURT: Right. MS. SHICK: I wasn't at the trial, so I don't know. THE COURT: The -- I guess what I'm wondering is my impression was that at least for most of the Garcia hearing the Government is excused while the Court colloquies the defendant. So is there -- how does that affect whether we need to wait for Mr. Snider to be able to appear? MS. SHICK: I -- Your Honor, I confess it's been a long time since I've done a Garcia hearing. THE COURT: Me too. That's why I'm asking. MS. SHICK: It was about -- maybe over a decade ago. I don't remember if I was present or not. And Your Honor might be right. And if that's the case, then I would have to, I think, in all good conscience withdraw the objection because if we're not even going to be here, then what is the point? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 6 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 7 I think Mr. Snider just really wanted to make sure there was a very good record of a colloquy, and that was what he was concerned about. I mean, obviously we don't have any stake in it, one way or the other. But I think in the sense that if it goes forward and problems arise later -- you know, Judge Goodman had pointed out what if one defendant decides to testify and the other doesn't? Even though the jury is not supposed to hold that against them, they might. And you have -- to the same lawyer. They're wondering why is one testifying and why is one not. So I think because it was wrought with so many potential problems that he just wanted to make sure that he would be here to answer Your Honor's questions if you had any. Now, if we're not required to be here, then I don't think I can stay when I don't think I can take that position. But if we're allowed to be here, I think that that was why he wanted to be present in case something would come up, if Your Honor had a question about the prior testimony or any testimony, that he'd able to add that. And the other thing, the reason being is that I didn't see any prejudice, since they're both out on bond, to continuing on Monday. THE COURT: I guess the prejudice -- what is the prejudice, Mr. Wilcox? MR. WILCOX: No. I just said the only reason that we Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 7 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 8 didn't want to hold it over for another day for Mr. Snider is that my client didn't want to have to come back to court. THE COURT: They've already come here -- MR. WILCOX: Yeah, and are here today, and they would like to resolve it today. Let me say this, Your Honor. As far as making the Court aware of the potential conflict and whether or not AUSA Snider can be here during that colloquy, certainly the Government can submit something in writing proffering what the conflict -- potential conflict may be. THE COURT: Well, I understand that. I guess the issue is that -- the whole point of the Garcia hearing is for the Court to be satisfied that if the defendants are both -- both want to go forward with joint representation -- dual representation, I should say, that they're both making a fully informed decision and that -- and the -- I think what Ms. Shick is saying is that in order for the Court to really have that thorough conversation with the defendants, I need to know, as best as I can, what that conflict is. I certainly reviewed the docket beforehand. I certainly saw that Mr. Wade had testified at Ms. Wade's first trial, which I think creates the obvious potential for a conflict that Ms. Shick has raised. I don't know if there's something else evidentiary -- I don't know what the content of his testimony was, if it was a -- and this is completely Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 8 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 9 hypothetical. I don't know if it was "I did everything. She had nothing to do with it," which would obviously create potentially something of a bigger conflict than a "neither of us had anything to do with it," something of that nature. And so I guess it's that the input from Mr. Snider could be helpful. I guess what we could do is this -- because, candidly, I communicated with Judge Williams about whether we should go forward with the Garcia hearing if you did enter a permanent appearance, and she asked me to do that because she wants to get this case moving. And so what I think I'd like to do is this. First of all, I'm going to take another case before we do any of the Garcia hearing. What I'll do is I'm going to conduct a colloquy with Mr. -- Ms. Wade is here also; is that correct? MR. WILCOX: That's correct, Your Honor. THE COURT: I'm going to pass their case for a moment. I'm going to conduct the colloquy, have the Garcia hearing with both of them, based on what my understanding of what the potential conflict is. If -- Ms. Shick -- I'm going to hold off on making a finding and submitting a -- or issuing an order on it. If Mr. Snider wants to submit additional information that I not might be aware of that gives me pause to think, you know what, there's something else we really didn't explore that needs to get done, then -- then perhaps we need to bring them back in. If that's not the case, then I Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 9 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 10 think I can issue an order without bringing them back in. How does that sound to both of you? Ms. Shick, does that make sense to you? MS. SHICK: It makes sense. The only thing that I would be concerned about is I won't be here. So would he have access to -- if we wanted to get it transcribed before he -- because I guess, otherwise, he could just independently, I guess, write to Your Honor about what he sees as a potential conflict -- THE COURT: Right. What I would envision is that if Mr. Snider wants to write a more formal motion where he explains what his concerns are and if when I see that I say, "Wait a minute. That's something that I haven't thought of that I think is a particular problem, that really needs to be addressed" -- you know, obviously, he will not have a transcript. That's the whole point -- MS. SHICK: Right. THE COURT: -- of excusing the Government. So I think if he raises something that to me creates a -- you know, a real glaring hole that I think, you know what, we really do need to address that a little further, then it may be cause to bring -- to bring in another hearing. Obviously, I think, Mr. Wilcox, that's not -- if the alternative was if the Government filed a motion and we had to set another hearing some other time, then they'd end up having Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 10 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 11 to come back anyway. At least what I'm proposing, we can try to get done as much as we can with them both here. And if we feel like it's fulsome enough, then -- then we can move forward without them having to come back. Does that make sense? MR. WILCOX: Yes, Your Honor. MS. SHICK: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. So what I'm going to do is we're going to pass Mr. Wade and Ms. Wade because I also need to -- for Mrs. Wade, I think we also need to arraign her on the superseding indictment, but we're going to pass that for the moment. Let me take Mr. -- (Recess taken.) THE COURT: Let me recall United States of America versus Carolyn Denise Wade and Tracy D. Wade, Case Number 23-60173. And I think the way to proceed is this. Let me do this. So -- and let me explain to them what's going on. All right. So there are a couple of things that we intend to accomplish here. So, Mr. and Mrs. Wade, as I understand, you are contemplating having dual or joint representation during your case, meaning that you'd both be represented by the same attorney or attorneys. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 11 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 12 I need to address that issue with you because there is at least the potential and perhaps even an actual conflict of interest in having the same attorneys represent you. And so we need to have a hearing for me to discuss that with you, make sure you understand the consequences of your decisions and the issue that that raises. Assuming that -- we also at some point need to have a -- assuming that counsel stays the same, we need to conduct an arraignment on the superseding indictment actually for both -- for both Mr. and Mrs. Wade. So what I would like to do is, the Government is making a motion asking for the Garcia hearing. Ms. Shick, if you have anything further that you'd like to state on the record as to what creates the actual potential conflict, I'm certainly happy to hear that -- or anything else you feel you need to put before the Court. Once you've done that, I'll excuse the Government and I'll conduct the Garcia colloquy with Mr. and Mrs. Wade. And then, depending on how that turns out, I may ask you to come back in and -- if we can proceed with our other proceedings. Does that make sense, Ms. Shick? MS. SHICK: Yes, Your Honor. And I've spoken to AUSA Snider, who is still currently stuck in Texas but should be leaving at some point today -- Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 12 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 13 THE COURT: Famous last words. MS. SHICK: Yes, exactly. THE COURT: We may never see him again. MS. SHICK: I did convey Your Honor's suggestion to allow him to supplement the record before any final decision is made, and he was very amenable to doing that. The only thing I can say, in the notes that he sent me, he had expressed that during the testimony there was some inclination that -- he was not admitting guilt but that there was some -- there was some testimony about him taking more of the responsibility and alleviating responsibility on his wife. I can't go as far as to say that he actually stated, "I did this; she did nothing," but that was sort of the implication that I was getting. But Mr. Wilcox, who was there at the trial, indicated that that was not the case. So I'm not the best person to talk about it, so that's why I had suggested that Mr. Snider be able to address the Court about that when the time comes. As far as conducting the hearing, obviously, I'll be excused, but I think because AUSA Snider has indicated his desire to address the Court in a motion -- some written supplement -- that if the Court could wait until making a final decision and then thereby we can conclude the other proceedings, like arraignment and that -- THE COURT: Did Mr. Snider indicate when he -- when Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 13 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 14 he thinks he would be able to make such a filing? MS. SHICK: So he didn't, but I told him I would try to get him as much time as possible but understanding that this is something that Your Honor and Judge Williams want to expedite, not have linger forever. I kind of intimated that it would be something soon, like this week -- THE COURT: Sure. MS. SHICK: -- but hopefully he'll get back and be able to do that today. THE COURT: Okay. So what I'm going to ask is I'll give Mr. Snider until the end of Wednesday -- MS. SHICK: Okay. THE COURT: -- to file any either motion or further proffer, whatever form he thinks is necessary to do that. I will certainly not make any findings before then, and I'll consider that before we make any further order or report and recommendation for Judge Williams to consider. MS. SHICK: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. So that being said, I'm going to excuse the Government now. So if Ms. Shick and any other representatives of the United States or US Attorney's Office -- if you could please leave the courtroom, and we'll let you know when you're allowed back in. Mr. Wilcox, does anyone else need to be excused Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 14 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 15 from -- MR. WILCOX: I'm looking, Your Honor. Your Honor, now, I know that you excused the Government, but does that mean the -- THE COURT: I'm sorry. Hold on one second, Mr. Wilcox. Actually, if I could ask -- you know, I'm sorry for anyone else who's waiting but if -- I do need to -- I think I do need to clear the courtroom in order to do this. So anyone for our remaining case, if you could please leave -- and are not here with Mr. and Mrs. Wade, if you could please leave the courtroom so that we can -- MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, the gentleman in the white shirt is my legal assistant. THE COURT: Okay. MR. WILCOX: Okay. THE COURT: And I will say for court personnel, if there are court interns that are present, you can certainly stay. Mr. Wilcox, I assume that's okay with you if any court personnel or interns or law clerks stay? MR. WILCOX: That's fine, Your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Wallace -- I'm sorry. Mr. Wilcox, I would like Mr. Wallace with the Public Defender's Office to stay because Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 15 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 16 he would be the independent counsel that I would appoint should either -- MR. WILCOX: Certainly, Your Honor. THE COURT: You're okay with that? MR. WILCOX: Certainly. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. All right. So -- MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, I wanted to ask -- are we going to seal the transcript here or -- THE COURT: I think that's -- yes, I think that's how it would proceed. Is that your experience, Mr. Wilcox? MR. WILCOX: No, I'm just making -- if we're excusing the Government, it doesn't make sense if we don't also seal the transcript. THE COURT: Right. And I will order that from this point to the conclusion of our colloquy the hearing should be sealed in order to protect the attorney-client privilege of both Mr. and Mrs. Wade. All right. So, as I said before, Mr. Wade and Mrs. Wade -- I'm sorry. Ms. Wade, would you prefer me to use Ms. or Mrs.? Do you have a preference? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. I'll try to articulate as best as I can because I want to make sure you each understand who I'm Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 16 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 17 speaking to. As I said before, I understand that you are contemplating joint representation in this case. In other words, having the same attorney or attorneys representing both of you. Mr. Wilcox is already representing Ms. Wade, and he's proposing to enter a permanent appearance to represent Mr. Wade as well. MR. WILCOX: If I could just interject, Your Honor. THE COURT: Yes. MR. WILCOX: It would not only be myself but it would also be attorney Johnny McCray, Jr. THE COURT: Yes. And I was going to get to that. Thank you, Mr. Wilcox. So I'm talking to you both about -- Mr. Wilcox and Johnny McCray, Jr., are currently representing Ms. Wade. They're proposing to enter a permanent appearance to represent Mr. Wade as well. Your choice of counsel to represent you is very, very important for both of you. The Government is charging you here with some serious offenses. They carry some serious potential consequences if you are convicted. And your lawyer is the only person who is going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with you at a trial. And so it's incredibly important that that person have your best Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 17 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 18 interest at heart. This hearing is about you making that choice of who your counsel is going to be and being fully aware of the circumstances and the consequences of that choice. As I said, the choice of counsel is one of the most important decisions that you have in your case, and it's one that you want to get right. Our system wants you to make an informed decision about that choice. If you make a poor but informed decision, you're the one that has to live with the consequences. And it's my job to make sure you are making a fully informed choice. Although the Court recognizes that you have an interest in having counsel of your choice, that choice is not an absolute choice. And the orderly administration of justice can overcome your right to choose your counsel if there's either an actual or even the showing of a serious potential conflict of interest for your counsel. In other words, the Court has an independent interest in ensuring that criminal trials are conducted within ethical standards of the legal profession and that legal proceedings appear fair to everyone who observes them, thus maintaining public confidence in the courts. So I'm going to ask you some questions and also talk to you about some of the possible disadvantages of joint representation that you really should consider before making Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 18 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 19 this choice. If at any point you don't understand what I'm saying, please let me know so I can rephrase it or try to explain something better. Okay? Also, if at any time you want to talk to your lawyer, talk to Mr. Wilcox about a question, please do that. Do you understand that, Ms. McCray -- excuse me -- Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: And, Mr. Wade, do you understand that as well? MR. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Also, I want both of you to understand that at any time I can appoint an independent lawyer at no cost to you to advise you during this hearing. Do you understand that? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Wade, do you understand that? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. Mr. Wade, do you understand? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Let me make it very clear. Mr. Wilcox is a fine, excellent defense attorney. This is nothing about Mr. Wilcox personally -- or Mr. McCray, for that matter. The kinds of conflicts that I'm going to talk to you about would arise regardless of who you're proposing would represent the two of you together. And so while the Court has Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 19 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 20 the utmost faith in Mr. Wilcox and Mr. McCray in both their skills and their ethics, there are certain conflicts that are simply inherent in dual representation, and those are some of the things I need to talk to you about today. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: If you find you need more time to think about this decision or to consult with another lawyer, whether that's someone I appoint for you or someone that you want to go and find and talk to or think about hiring yourself, we can absolutely reschedule this hearing for another day. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Mr. Wade, do you understand that? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: In other words, I know you've been waiting patiently here. I know we were talking before about, you know, could we do this today rather than have you come back another day. I fully understand everyone's busy schedules and not wanting to come back to court more than you have to, but I need to emphasize again this is a really important decision here, and I don't want either of you to feel like you are rushed into making this decision. So the Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 20 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 21 Court is absolutely fine with giving you additional time if you need to think about this decision or consult with another lawyer. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: I need to ask both of you a couple of questions about your background to make sure that the Court can be confident that you are making -- you're able to make an informed decision. So first, I need to put both of you under oath. Can you both raise your right hand. (Defendant, TRACY D. WADE, duly sworn.) (Defendant, CAROLYN DENISE WADE, duly sworn.) THE COURT: Okay. Put your hands down. Ms. Wade, I'm going to address you first. How old are you, ma'am? MS. WADE: 49. THE COURT: Okay. How far did you go in school? MS. WADE: High school diploma. THE COURT: Are you able to read and understand English fluently? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Have you ever been treated for any mental Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 21 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 22 illness or addiction to any controlled substance? MS. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Are you under the influence of any drugs or alcohol right now? MS. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Have you taken any medication whatsoever, whether that's prescription or over the counter, within the last 24 hours? MS. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Do you feel like you understand what's happening today? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Anything affecting your ability to either understand my questions or the proceedings or what's going on here today? MS. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Do you feel that you are thinking clearly and able to make a serious and consequential choice today? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: All right. Mr. Wilcox, do you have any reason to doubt Ms. McCray -- I keep saying McCray. I'm sorry about that -- Ms. Wade's competency or ability to make a fully informed decision today? MR. WILCOX: No, I do not, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 22 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 23 Mr. Wade, I'm going to ask you the same questions. How old are you, sir? MR. WADE: 51. THE COURT: How far did you go in school, sir? MR. WADE: Associate's in college. THE COURT: Okay. Are you able to speak and understand and read English fluently? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Have you ever been treated for any mental illness or addiction to any controlled substances? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Are you the under the influence of any drugs or alcohol right now? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Have you taken any medication whatsoever today, either prescription or over the counter, within the last 24 hours? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Okay. What sort of medication was that? MR. WADE: Cholesterol and blood pressure. THE COURT: Does that affect your ability to think clearly in any way? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Do you feel like you are able to think clearly here today? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 23 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 24 MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you understand what is happening here today? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Is anything affecting your ability to understand what's going on, to think clearly, or to make a consequential decision here today? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: And, Mr. Wilcox, again, do you have any questions or doubts about Mr. McCray's ability -- MR. WILCOX: Mr. Wade's. THE COURT: God, I keep doing that. I'm so sorry -- Mr. Wade's competency to make an informed decision here today? MR. WILCOX: No, I do not, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. I do find that each defendant is fully competent and capable of making an important decision, and therefore we will proceed with our colloquy. Now, as I said before, you're each facing some very serious charges. Those charges include conspiracy to commit wire fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy to make false statements to the Small Business Administration, and making a false statement to the Small Business Administration. These are felony offenses. If convicted, you could be sentenced up to a maximum of 20 years in prison for conspiracy to commit wire fraud, 20 years in prison for wire Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 24 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 25 fraud, five years in prison for conspiracy to make false statements to the Small Business Administration, and two years in prison for each count of false statement to the Small Business Administration. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Under the United States Constitution, you each have the absolute right to effective assistance of counsel. When one lawyer represents two or more defendants in the same case, it can create a conflict of interest that denies you your right to effective assistance of counsel. That's because the lawyer may have trouble representing all defendants with the same fairness. Such conflicts are always a potential problem because different defendants may have different degrees of involvement or may want to pursue different strategies at trial or at sentencing. Each of you has the right to a lawyer who represents you and only you, a lawyer who has only your best interests in mind. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: And do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 25 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 26 THE COURT: So let me talk to you about some of the ways in which a conflict could arise in your case. First, your lawyer could be inhibited from conducting an independent investigation. He may learn something from a confidential interview of one of you that would help the other one of you, but he can't use it because he owes an attorney-client privilege to each of you. In other words, something he learns from one of you, he can't use to help the other because he's learned of it in confidence. Second, the Government may offer some type of immunity or lesser sentence to one of you for cooperating with them against others, including potentially the other one of you. Your lawyer ought to advise you about the wisdom of accepting or rejecting that offer, but a lawyer representing both of you can't really do that since it would hurt the other client. In other words, if one of you doing one action would hurt the other, he can't both advise you -- you know, if something is in, say, Ms. Wade's interest but it would hurt Mr. Wade, he can't both fully protect Mr. Wade's interests while fully advising Ms. Wade what's the best thing to do in her interest. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Mr. Wade, do you understand that? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 26 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 27 MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Dual representation can also affect your lawyer's ability to negotiate a plea. Plea negotiations are different and even more difficult when negotiating for more than one person's interest. Let me give you an example. One thing you may have talked about with your attorney is the sentencing guidelines that might affect what kind of sentence might get imposed if you are convicted in the case. And perhaps one of you wants to argue to the Government that you should get a reduction in sentence for having a minor role. That may require you to argue to the Government that you were less culpable than another defendant, including the other one of you, but your lawyer can't make that argument to the Government or negotiate that deal with the Government without implicitly harming, potentially, the other person in their negotiations with the Government. In other words, when -- in trying to get one of you the best deal that they could, your lawyer may not be able to represent the other person's best interests in full. Do you understand that, Ms. McCray? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor -- Wade. THE COURT: Ms. Wade. Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 27 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 28 THE COURT: Dual representation could also be a problem in jury selection. Let's say there may be jurors that may appear more favorable to, say, Ms. Wade and more harmful to Mr. Wade, or vice versa. So there could be jurors that Ms. Wade wants to keep on the jury but that Mr. Wade would be better off trying to strike. Or, again, vice versa, maybe there are people that Mr. Wade wants to strike and Ms. Wade wants to keep. It's hard to come up with every possible scenario, but you're a husband and wife. Let's say there could be -- you know, one attorney might think, you know what, for -- it helps Ms. Wade to have as many wives and mothers on the jury as possible because they're going to be sympathetic to her or, you know, maybe there are women who have been mistreated by their husbands or tricked into something -- and again, Mr. Wade, I'm not suggesting you did any of that. I'm just saying hypothetical scenarios. And that kind of person might be really sympathetic to Ms. Wade but less sympathetic to Mr. Wade. Your attorney can't both try to keep those people for Ms. Wade and strike them for Mr. Wade and pursue both of your interests fully. Do you understand what I'm explaining, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Mr. Wade, do you understand? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 28 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 29 MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Similarly, there may be different strategies that would benefit each of you at trial that your attorney can't pursue at the same time. One big one that you heard the Government talking about -- and is one I really need to talk to you about -- is the decision about testifying in your own defense. You both have the absolute right to choose not to testify at your trial. You also have the absolute right to choose to testify if you want to, and that's often one of the biggest decisions that a defendant has to make in a case. And, you know, Mr. Wilcox will tell you there are a lot of things that go into that decision, pro and con, one way or the other. If one of you chooses to testify, your lawyer should question each witness as thoroughly and completely as possible in order to fully and fairly represent you, but that would lead to a situation where -- and I'm just going to take the example because I know, Mr. Wade, you testified at Ms. Wade's first trial. So if Mr. Wade is testifying, Mr. Wilcox and Mr. McCray have the obligation to question you as thoroughly as possible in Ms. Wade's interest, but they can't necessarily do that because, one, that may implicate things that Mr. Wade has told them in confidence, again, within that attorney-client relationship, or it might -- they can't pursue something that's going to hurt Mr. Wade in order to help Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 29 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 30 Ms. Wade, and vice versa. Do you understand what I'm saying, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Mr. Wade, do you understand what I'm saying? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Similarly, even if the decision -- if testifying may help your case but hurt the other defendant's case, your lawyer may have a difficult time advising you whether you may wish to testify. Again, for example, Mr. Wade, again, you testified at Ms. Wade's first trial. That ended in a mistrial. I'm not sure whether -- that was because of a hung jury, I'm assuming, or -- MR. WILCOX: Hung jury, yes. THE COURT: Oh, it was a hung jury, Mr. Wilcox. Thank you. So, Mr. Wade, your testimony may have been beneficial to Ms. Wade to -- I believe you were called by the defense. It may have helped her defense. At a trial where you are also a defendant, it may not be in your interest to testify where you are going to be cross-examined by the Government. That may especially be true if there's the risk that you say something slightly differently at a second trial than you did at the first trial. That comes with some real risks to you. But a lawyer who is representing both of you may have a Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 30 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 31 difficult time telling you "don't testify" when he knows that your testimony might help Ms. Wade. Do you understand that? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: And, Ms. Wade, do you understand that as well? The same thing goes for you. If you -- you know, your lawyer may need to discourage Mr. Wade from testifying again even though that's not necessarily in your best interest. Do you understand that? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Similarly, the Government alluded to this before. The Court absolutely instructs and will absolutely instruct at your trial that if either of you chooses not to testify, that fact cannot be held against you, and the jury will be instructed that way. But if one of you testifies and the other one doesn't, the jury may wonder why that's happening or they may hear only one side of the story and not yours. A lawyer who's representing both of you can't necessarily help each of you navigate that decision as well as if you had an independent attorney advising you. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: And do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: As I alluded to you before, if your case Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 31 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 32 gets to a sentencing, if you are convicted or if you plead guilty and you get to a sentencing, the problems potentially continue. For example, like I said before, a frequent strategy at -- I'm sorry. I skipped something. Let's hold off on getting to sentencing. Let's go back to talking about what strategy to pursue at trial because it's not just about whether one of you is going to testify or not but, again, there may be differences in strategy or about how to assess particular pieces of evidence. For example, typically or frequently -- I should say frequently in a multi-defendant trial, one strategy is for one defendant to blame the other defendants or to say that they may be guilty but I'm not or I'm less culpable than what the others did. But a lawyer representing both of you can't really make that argument because Mr. Wade's attorney can't be arguing, "Well, Ms. Wade may be guilty but I'm not" because he also owes a duty to Ms. Wade and vice versa. Similarly, if there's a piece of evidence that maybe helps one of you but hurts the other of you, your lawyer has to decide do I object to that piece of evidence and try to keep it out to help Ms. Wade, do I not object to it and let it in to help Mr. Wade, or even do I emphasize it later in an argument or do I de-emphasize it? Again, those are places where your interests don't necessarily align, and having an independent attorney looking out for your interests might be Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 32 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 33 better for you. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Okay. I had started talking about sentencing before. Let me turn back to that. Again, a lot of times what happens in a case if you get to sentencing with multiple defendants is that at sentencing your attorney wants to argue, "I'm less culpable than some of the other people. I played a minor role and shouldn't get as harsh of a sentence," or, you know, comparatively you're less at fault. But with dual representation, that makes that argument virtually impossible because, again, just as with many of the other things that we've been discussing, your attorney can't harm one of you in order to help the other. Or if he does, then one of you is not getting the benefit of an attorney fully representing your interest. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: All right. Ms. Wade, do you understand each of these potential conflicts that I've explained to you? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 33 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 34 MS. WADE: I do, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you have any questions about any of them that you want to ask me? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Mr. Wade, do you understand each of these potential conflicts that I've explained to you? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you have any questions that you want to ask me about? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: All right. Mr. Wilcox, can you explain to me how you can assure the Court that there will be no conflict that will result in a lack of effective assistance or result in any other prejudice to either Mr. or Ms. Wade? MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, could you repeat that again for me? THE COURT: Sure. How can you assure the Court that there will be no conflict here that will lead to a lack of effective assistance of counsel in the case? MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, because I was present at Ms. Wade's first trial that resulted in a mistrial, our defense primarily is based on a third party who incidentally is going to be arraigned or have her initial appearance today. THE COURT: Yes. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 34 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 35 MR. WILCOX: And it is not a situation where the defendants are pointing fingers at each other. THE COURT: Well, I understand that is the current intention, Mr. Wilcox, but I mean, you know better than anyone that things can evolve, testimony can change, maybe consideration of evidence -- MR. WILCOX: What I can say, Your Honor, is if things do change, if circumstances do change and I see that there's an unavoidable conflict, I certainly will make that known to the Court and would ask that -- and either have one of them retain separate counsel or ask the Court to appoint the federal public defender. THE COURT: Okay. Is the evidence the same against both Mr. and Ms. Wade? MR. WILCOX: I believe there's a separate loan that's charged in the indictment with respect to Mr. Wade. THE COURT: Okay. In terms of who identifies them as being involved or communications, you know, between -- alleged communications between them and the witnesses, is that -- MR. WILCOX: I'm not sure I followed you with that. THE COURT: I guess what I'm asking is, as you understand the evidence, was the communication between them -- the alleged communication between them and third parties or alleged communication between them and the Small Business Administration -- was that all with one of them? Was it with Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 35 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 36 both of them? How does the evidence compare there? MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, both of them had communication with the Small Business Administration or the agency or -- I believe there was a -- there's an entity, I think is the best word, that was facilitating their loan on behalf of the Small Business Administration, and both of them had had communication with that entity. THE COURT: What about -- as I understand it, I think there's someone who's alleged to have assisted them with preparing the loans. MR. WILCOX: That's correct. And that person is going to be appearing before the Court shortly. THE COURT: And was the communication with that person -- was that all done with all three of them together or was that person communicating with Ms. Wade or was that person communicating with Mr. Wade? MR. WILCOX: My best recollection from the evidence introduced at the last trial was that she had -- this third person did not communicate with both of them simultaneously at any time. THE COURT: Okay. So is there a possibility, though, that -- you know, that something that this third party said to, hypothetically, Ms. Wade but not Mr. Wade could create -- MR. WILCOX: Or vice versa. THE COURT: -- or vice versa -- could create a Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 36 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 37 conflict of, well, she might have known about it but he didn't, or he might have known that but she didn't? Doesn't that present that possibility -- MR. WILCOX: Yes, it does, Your Honor. And quite frankly, I can't parse that out right now. I mean, I don't -- THE COURT: Okay. MR. WILCOX: -- have that strong of a recollection of what occurred in the previous trial. Quite candidly, Your Honor, I filed a notice of appearance to assist Mr. McCray sort of like at the eleventh hour, and so I -- my recollection of the facts of the trial, as I've explained, that the person that the defense was focusing on or saying that was responsible for any wrongdoing is the person that -- is a third party that will be appearing before the Court this afternoon -- well, short -- yeah, this afternoon. Yes. THE COURT: Without getting into -- let me ask this. Are there any issues regarding marital privilege here, without telling me about any specific statements -- MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, I just don't know. I mean, that's the honest answer. I can't answer that question. THE COURT: Right. Well, I guess that is the issue of are there statements that one of your clients would have made to the other that might be helpful but that can't be -- that one of your clients would prevent the other from testifying about? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 37 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 38 MR. WILCOX: Again, Your Honor, I can't say at this time. In the last trial, Mr. Wade was not a defendant. He did testify. My recollection of his testimony was that this third party -- he knew the third party before Ms. Wade knew the third party, and the third party got -- got involved with Ms. Wade because of the third party's relationship with Mr. Wade. And that's my best recollection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Have you -- without getting into any of the details of the discussions you've had, have you fully discussed the ramifications of dual representation with each of your clients? MR. WILCOX: Mr. McCray has. THE COURT: Mr. McCray has. MR. WILCOX: Yes. THE COURT: And based on those discussions, do you believe that you've addressed some of the potential conflicts here and understanding why they should or shouldn't be of concern? MR. WILCOX: Your Honor, I've also had conversations with Mr. and Mrs. Wade also, and they do understand -- based on my conversation with them, they do understand the potential for conflict. And if any additional situation -- if the circumstances change, if there's some new evidence or some new circumstances when we can't avoid having a conflict, I can always tell the Court that I will advise them that they should Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 38 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 39 probably have -- one of them should seek another counsel and, if not, ask the Court to appoint the federal public defender and that's about all I can say. THE COURT: Let me ask this. Can you tell me how -- how are counsel's fees being paid? MR. WILCOX: Excuse me? THE COURT: How are the fees being paid? In other words, I understand -- this is what I'm ultimately trying to get at, and I want to address this with each of you too. MR. WILCOX: My understanding is that they are jointly paying Mr. McCray and I. THE COURT: Okay. What I want -- what I want each of you, Mr. Wade and Mrs. Wade, to understand, I understand hiring an attorney is very expensive, and I can imagine as a couple pooling your resources to pay for counsel seems like -- just like you pool your resources for probably a lot of things in your lives to afford them, it seems like a good idea. What I want each of you to understand, though, is that if either of you wanted independent counsel and there's not enough money between you to pay for two sets of attorneys that the Court can appoint counsel for one of you free of charge. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Absolutely, sir. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 39 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 40 THE COURT: In other words, I want to make sure you understand that if it's a matter of, you know, I really think I should have someone else but we're already -- we're already paying for Mr. Wilcox and Mr. McCray. We can't go out and pay for someone else. I don't want to do that. I can't. So I'm just going to -- we're just going to stick with what we've got because we can't afford someone else, that that shouldn't be a consideration because the Court can appoint someone else if you wanted. Do you understand that, Ms. Wade? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Wade? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Okay. All right. Mr. Wilcox, anything else that you wanted to represent to the Court? MR. WILCOX: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Then what I'm going to do -- I'm now going to ask you, Ms. Wade, whether you're waiving your right to separate counsel despite the potential conflicts we've discussed, and then I'm going to ask the same questions of Mr. Wade. Okay? Ms. Wade, do you understand that you have the right to your own counsel that represents you and only you? Do you understand that? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 40 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 41 THE COURT: Do you understand that if you could not afford a separate attorney, I could appoint an attorney for you at no cost? MS. WADE: I understand, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you understand that if you waive the potential conflicts we've discussed here today and waive your right to your own separate counsel and if the Court accepts your waiver, you will not be able to raise these conflicts on appeal if the case does not turn out as well as you wish? MS. WADE: I understand, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you have any questions about anything that we've discussed here today? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Would you like the opportunity to consult with an independent counsel appointed free of charge on this important matter before making your decision? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you need any more time to think about this decision? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Or do you want any time to speak to an independent attorney before making this decision? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you want to proceed with Mr. Wilcox and with Mr. McCray as your counsel knowing that they will Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 41 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 42 also represent Mr. Wade and that, as a result, conflicts between you and Mr. Wade may occur? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you believe you're fully aware of the potential conflicts that may occur? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you now waive any such conflicts of interest? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you make this waiver freely and voluntarily? MS. WADE: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Has anybody promised you anything in return for this waiver? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Has anybody threatened you in any way either directly or indirectly to make you enter this waiver? MS. WADE: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Mr. Wade, I'm going to ask you a similar set of questions now. Do you understand that you have the right to your own counsel that represents you and only you? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you understand that if you could not afford a separate attorney, I could appoint an attorney for Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 42 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 43 you at no cost? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you understand that if you waive the potential conflict we have discussed and waive your right to your own separate counsel and if the Court accepts that waiver, you will not be able to raise these conflicts on appeal if the case does not turn out as well as you wish? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you have any questions about anything we've talked about here today? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Would you like the opportunity to consult with an independent counsel appointed free of charge on this important matter before making your decision? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Do you feel like you need more time to think about your decision? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Do you want to proceed with Mr. Wilcox and Mr. McCray, knowing that they will represent Ms. Wade and that, as a result, conflicts between and you Ms. Wade may occur? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you believe you're fully aware of the potential conflicts that may occur? Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 43 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 44 MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you waive any such conflicts of interest? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Do you make this waiver freely and voluntarily? MR. WADE: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Has anybody promised you anything in return for this waiver? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: Has anybody threatened you in any way either directly or indirectly to enter into this waiver? MR. WADE: No, sir. THE COURT: I find based on the information presented today that both Mr. Wade and Ms. Wade are fully informed and competent to proceed. Understanding that conflicts may exist, each wishes to have Mr. Wilcox and Mr. McCray represent them as counsel of choice, and each is freely, knowingly, and voluntarily waiving any conflicts. As I said earlier, I am going to wait to see what else the Government wishes to proffer to me later this week that may present another wrinkle or issue that I haven't addressed with you that I may find is necessary to address with you before I order that your waivers be accepted. If that happens, I'll ask you to come back so I can Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 44 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 45 discuss with you further. Otherwise, if I think we've fully addressed all the issues that we need to, I will enter an order that your waivers be accepted and that you be allowed to proceed with Mr. Wilcox and Mr. McCray representing both of you. What I'd like to do is I'm going to call the Government back in and we're going to proceed with an arraignment for both of you on the superseding indictment that needs to be on the record with the Government. If for whatever reason we later determine that there needs to be a further hearing, we can always -- and one of you ends up getting other counsel, we can always redo the arraignment at that point. Does that make sense to you, Mr. Wilcox? MR. WILCOX: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: I'm going to -- you've both been very patient. Thank you for your time. If you hold on one second, I'm going to ask my courtroom deputy to invite everyone else back in. We'll open the record back up and we can proceed with our arraignments. MS. WADE: Do we stay here? THE COURT: Why don't you just stay right there. Hold on a second. Mr. and Mrs. Wade, Mr. Wilcox is going to give you an affidavit to read over and sign. It discusses some of the Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 45 of 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 46 exact same things that we've just addressed. I want you to read them very carefully. And if you're still in agreement with them, sign them and hand them up. Okay? (Recording ended.) CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript of the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. The transcript was prepared to the best of my ability from a digital audio recording of the proceedings provided by the Court. DATE: 21st of May, 2025 /s/Lance W. Steinbeisser Transcriber United States District Court Southern District of Florida Miami, Florida Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 46 of 54 / /s/Lance [1] - 46:10 1 1 [1] - 1:8 15 [1] - 1:5 2 20 [2] - 24:24, 24:25 2013 [1] - 5:3 2024 [1] - 1:5 2025 [1] - 46:10 21st [1] - 46:10 23-60173 [2] - 2:3, 11:17 23-CR-60173-KMW [1] - 1:3 24 [2] - 22:8, 23:17 3 305.523.5633 [1] - 1:21 3243368 [1] - 5:4 33128 [1] - 1:21 4 400 [1] - 1:20 46 [1] - 1:8 49 [1] - 21:19 5 51 [1] - 23:3 A ability [7] - 22:13, 22:22, 23:21, 24:5, 24:10, 27:3, 46:8 able [14] - 3:13, 6:17, 7:19, 13:17, 14:1, 14:9, 21:10, 21:22, 22:18, 23:6, 23:24, 27:19, 41:8, 43:6 above-entitled [1] - 46:7 absolute [4] - 18:14, 25:10, 29:7, 29:8 absolutely [6] - 2:23, 20:13, 21:1, 31:12, 39:25 accepted [2] - 44:24, 45:3 accepting [1] - 26:15 accepts [2] - 41:7, 43:5 access [1] - 10:6 accomplish [1] - 11:21 action [1] - 26:17 actual [8] - 3:12, 4:9, 5:24, 6:3, 6:7, 12:2, 12:14, 18:16 add [1] - 7:19 addiction [2] - 22:1, 23:10 additional [3] - 9:21, 21:1, 38:22 address [7] - 10:21, 12:1, 13:17, 13:21, 21:17, 39:9, 44:23 addressed [5] - 10:15, 38:16, 44:22, 45:2, 46:1 administration [1] - 18:14 Administration [7] - 24:21, 24:22, 25:2, 25:4, 35:25, 36:3, 36:6 admitting [1] - 13:9 advise [7] - 4:10, 5:16, 5:20, 19:13, 26:14, 26:18, 38:25 advising [4] - 4:3, 26:21, 30:9, 31:20 affect [4] - 6:16, 23:21, 27:2, 27:8 affecting [2] - 22:13, 24:5 affidavit [1] - 45:25 afford [4] - 39:17, 40:7, 41:2, 42:25 afternoon [2] - 37:15 agency [1] - 36:4 ago [2] - 3:15, 6:21 agreement [1] - 46:2 aided [1] - 1:24 alcohol [2] - 22:4, 23:13 ALICIA [1] - 1:14 Alicia [1] - 2:6 align [1] - 32:24 alleged [4] - 35:18, 35:23, 35:24, 36:9 alleviating [1] - 13:11 allow [1] - 13:5 allowed [3] - 7:16, 14:24, 45:3 alluded [2] - 31:11, 31:25 alternative [1] - 10:24 amenable [1] - 13:6 AMERICA [1] - 1:4 America [1] - 11:15 answer [3] - 7:13, 37:20 anyway [1] - 11:1 appeal [2] - 41:9, 43:7 appear [3] - 6:17, 18:20, 28:3 appearance [10] - 2:4, 2:19, 2:22, 3:1, 3:18, 9:9, 17:7, 17:17, 34:24, 37:9 appearing [3] - 3:15, 36:12, 37:14 appoint [10] - 5:19, 16:1, 19:12, 20:11, 35:11, 39:2, 39:21, 40:8, 41:2, 42:25 appointed [2] - 41:15, 43:13 argue [3] - 27:10, 27:12, 33:10 arguing [1] - 32:16 argument [4] - 27:14, 32:15, 32:23, 33:14 arise [3] - 7:5, 19:24, 26:2 arraign [1] - 11:10 arraigned [1] - 34:24 arraignment [5] - 2:16, 12:9, 13:24, 45:8, 45:13 arraignments [1] - 45:20 articulate [1] - 16:24 assess [1] - 32:8 assist [1] - 37:9 assistance [4] - 25:10, 25:13, 34:13, 34:19 assistant [1] - 15:14 assisted [1] - 36:9 associate's [1] - 23:5 assume [1] - 15:20 assuming [3] - 12:7, 12:8, 30:13 assure [2] - 34:12, 34:18 attorney [23] - 11:25, 16:17, 17:4, 17:12, 19:21, 26:7, 27:7, 28:11, 28:20, 29:4, 29:24, 31:20, 32:15, 32:25, 33:10, 33:16, 33:18, 39:14, 41:2, 41:22, 42:25 Attorney's [2] - 1:14, 14:22 attorney-client [3] - 16:17, 26:7, 29:24 attorneys [4] - 11:25, 12:3, 17:4, 39:20 audio [2] - 1:24, 46:8 AUSA [4] - 1:14, 8:8, 12:23, 13:20 available [1] - 5:21 Avenue [1] - 1:20 avoid [1] - 38:24 aware [6] - 4:20, 8:7, 9:22, 18:3, 42:4, 43:24 B background [1] - 21:9 based [5] - 9:18, 34:23, 38:15, 38:20, 44:14 BEFORE [1] - 1:11 beforehand [1] - 8:20 behalf [4] - 2:7, 2:9, 2:11, 36:6 BEHALF [1] - 1:16 beneficial [1] - 30:17 benefit [2] - 29:3, 33:18 best [14] - 4:18, 8:19, 13:16, 16:24, 17:25, 25:20, 26:21, 27:19, 27:20, 31:8, 36:5, 36:17, 38:7, 46:8 better [4] - 19:3, 28:6, 33:1, 35:4 between [10] - 3:12, 4:8, 35:18, 35:19, 35:22, 35:23, 35:24, 39:20, 42:2, 43:21 big [1] - 29:4 bigger [1] - 9:3 biggest [1] - 29:10 blame [3] - 4:23, 4:24, 32:12 blood [1] - 23:20 board [1] - 3:7 bond [1] - 7:21 bring [3] - 9:25, 10:22 bringing [1] - 10:1 business [1] - 2:19 Business [7] - 24:21, 24:22, 25:2, 25:4, Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 47 35:24, 36:3, 36:6 busy [1] - 20:21 C canceled [1] - 3:6 candidly [2] - 9:7, 37:8 cannot [1] - 31:14 capable [1] - 24:16 carefully [1] - 46:2 Carolyn [1] - 11:16 CAROLYN [2] - 1:7, 21:15 carry [1] - 17:21 case [26] - 4:7, 4:9, 5:1, 6:4, 6:23, 7:17, 9:10, 9:12, 9:16, 9:25, 11:24, 13:15, 15:10, 17:3, 18:6, 25:12, 26:2, 27:9, 29:11, 30:8, 30:9, 31:25, 33:8, 34:20, 41:9, 43:7 Case [2] - 2:2, 11:16 CASE [1] - 1:3 certain [1] - 20:2 certainly [13] - 4:12, 4:21, 5:14, 5:15, 8:8, 8:20, 8:21, 12:15, 14:15, 15:18, 16:3, 16:5, 35:9 CERTIFICATE [1] - 46:5 certify [1] - 46:7 change [4] - 35:5, 35:8, 38:23 changes [1] - 4:20 charge [3] - 39:22, 41:15, 43:13 charged [1] - 35:16 charges [2] - 24:19 charging [1] - 17:20 choice [12] - 17:19, 18:2, 18:4, 18:5, 18:8, 18:11, 18:13, 18:14, 19:1, 22:18, 44:18 cholesterol [1] - 23:20 choose [3] - 18:15, 29:7, 29:9 chooses [2] - 29:14, 31:13 circumstances [4] - 18:3, 35:8, 38:23, 38:24 cite [1] - 5:2 Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 47 of 54 clear [2] - 15:9, 19:20 clearly [5] - 4:19, 22:17, 23:22, 23:25, 24:6 clerks [1] - 15:21 client [5] - 8:2, 16:17, 26:7, 26:17, 29:24 clients [4] - 3:23, 37:22, 37:24, 38:11 coconspirator [1] - 4:19 college [1] - 23:5 colloquies [1] - 6:14 colloquy [10] - 4:8, 5:14, 5:15, 7:2, 8:8, 9:14, 9:17, 12:18, 16:16, 24:17 commit [2] - 24:19, 24:25 communicate [1] - 36:19 communicated [1] - 9:7 communicating [2] - 36:15, 36:16 communication [6] - 35:22, 35:23, 35:24, 36:3, 36:7, 36:13 communications [2] - 35:18, 35:19 comparatively [1] - 33:13 compare [1] - 36:1 competency [2] - 22:22, 24:13 competent [2] - 24:16, 44:16 completely [2] - 8:25, 29:15 computer [1] - 1:24 computer-aided [1] - 1:24 con [1] - 29:12 concern [1] - 38:18 concerned [2] - 7:3, 10:5 concerns [1] - 10:12 conclude [1] - 13:23 conclusion [1] - 16:16 conduct [4] - 9:13, 9:17, 12:8, 12:17 conducted [1] - 18:19 conducting [2] - 13:19, 26:3 confess [1] - 6:18 confidence [3] - 18:21, 26:9, 29:23 confident [1] - 21:10 confidential [1] - 26:5 conflict [25] - 3:12, 4:10, 4:11, 6:3, 6:7, 8:7, 8:10, 8:19, 8:23, 9:3, 9:19, 10:9, 12:2, 12:15, 18:17, 25:12, 26:2, 34:13, 34:19, 35:9, 37:1, 38:22, 38:24, 43:4 conflicts [19] - 4:21, 19:23, 20:2, 25:16, 33:25, 34:6, 38:16, 40:19, 41:6, 41:8, 42:1, 42:5, 42:7, 43:6, 43:21, 43:25, 44:2, 44:16, 44:19 conscience [1] - 6:24 consequences [4] - 12:5, 17:22, 18:3, 18:10 consequential [2] - 22:18, 24:7 consider [3] - 14:16, 14:17, 18:25 consideration [2] - 35:6, 40:8 conspiracy [4] - 24:19, 24:20, 24:25, 25:1 Constitution [1] - 25:9 consult [5] - 5:21, 20:10, 21:2, 41:14, 43:12 contemplating [2] - 11:23, 17:3 content [1] - 8:24 continuance [1] - 3:23 continue [3] - 3:10, 3:19, 32:3 continuing [1] - 7:22 controlled [2] - 22:1, 23:10 conversation [2] - 8:18, 38:21 conversations [1] - 38:19 convey [1] - 13:4 convicted [4] - 17:22, 24:23, 27:9, 32:1 cooperating [1] - 26:11 correct [4] - 9:14, 9:15, 36:11, 46:7 cost [3] - 19:13, 41:3, 43:1 COUNSEL [1] - 1:10 counsel [34] - 2:15, 4:3, 4:10, 4:24, 5:16, 5:19, 5:21, 5:22, 12:8, 16:1, 17:19, 18:2, 18:5, 18:13, 18:15, 18:17, 25:11, 25:13, 34:20, 35:11, 39:1, 39:15, 39:19, 39:21, 40:19, 40:23, 41:7, 41:15, 41:25, 42:22, 43:5, 43:13, 44:18, 45:12 counsel's [1] - 39:5 count [1] - 25:3 counter [2] - 22:7, 23:16 couple [3] - 11:20, 21:8, 39:15 course [1] - 4:21 COURT [150] - 1:1, 2:2, 2:8, 2:13, 2:21, 2:24, 3:16, 3:20, 3:25, 4:17, 5:14, 6:10, 6:12, 6:20, 7:23, 8:3, 8:11, 9:16, 10:10, 10:18, 11:8, 11:15, 13:1, 13:3, 13:25, 14:7, 14:10, 14:13, 14:19, 15:5, 15:15, 15:17, 15:23, 16:4, 16:6, 16:10, 16:15, 16:24, 17:10, 17:13, 19:8, 19:11, 19:16, 19:20, 20:7, 20:9, 20:16, 20:18, 21:6, 21:8, 21:16, 21:20, 21:22, 21:25, 22:3, 22:6, 22:10, 22:13, 22:17, 22:20, 22:25, 23:4, 23:6, 23:9, 23:12, 23:15, 23:19, 23:21, 23:24, 24:2, 24:5, 24:9, 24:12, 24:15, 25:7, 25:9, 25:24, 26:1, 26:25, 27:2, 27:23, 28:1, 28:25, 29:2, 30:4, 30:7, 30:15, 31:5, 31:11, 31:23, 31:25, 33:4, 33:6, 33:22, 33:24, 34:2, 34:5, 34:8, 34:11, 34:17, 34:25, 35:3, 35:13, 35:17, 35:21, 36:8, 36:13, 36:21, 36:25, 37:6, 37:16, 37:21, 38:8, 38:13, 38:15, 39:4, 39:7, 39:12, 39:24, 40:1, 40:12, 40:14, 40:17, 41:1, 41:5, 41:11, 41:14, 41:18, 41:21, 41:24, 42:4, 42:7, 42:10, 42:13, 42:16, 42:19, 42:24, 43:3, 43:9, 43:12, 43:16, 43:19, 43:24, 44:2, 44:5, 44:8, 44:11, 44:14, 45:16, 45:22 court [6] - 2:11, 8:2, 15:17, 15:18, 15:21, 20:22 Court [34] - 1:20, 2:1, 5:2, 5:15, 5:19, 6:14, 8:7, 8:13, 8:17, 12:16, 13:17, 13:21, 13:22, 18:12, 18:18, 19:25, 21:1, 21:9, 31:12, 34:12, 34:18, 35:10, 35:11, 36:12, 37:14, 38:25, 39:2, 39:21, 40:8, 40:15, 41:7, 43:5, 46:9, 46:11 Court's [1] - 3:8 courtroom [4] - 14:23, 15:9, 15:12, 45:18 courts [1] - 18:22 create [4] - 9:2, 25:12, 36:23, 36:25 creates [3] - 8:22, 10:19, 12:14 criminal [1] - 18:18 cross [1] - 30:21 cross-examined [1] - 30:21 culpable [3] - 27:12, 32:13, 33:10 current [1] - 35:3 D DARYL [1] - 1:17 Daryl [1] - 2:10 DATE [1] - 46:10 de [1] - 32:23 de-emphasize [1] - 32:23 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 48 deal [2] - 27:15, 27:19 decade [1] - 6:21 decide [1] - 32:20 decides [1] - 7:6 decision [23] - 8:16, 13:5, 13:23, 18:8, 18:9, 20:10, 20:24, 20:25, 21:2, 21:11, 22:23, 24:7, 24:13, 24:17, 29:6, 29:12, 30:7, 31:19, 41:16, 41:19, 41:22, 43:14, 43:17 decisions [3] - 12:5, 18:6, 29:10 Defendant [2] - 21:14, 21:15 defendant [9] - 6:15, 7:6, 24:15, 27:13, 29:10, 30:20, 32:11, 32:12, 38:2 defendant's [1] - 30:8 defendants [9] - 5:16, 8:13, 8:18, 25:11, 25:15, 25:17, 32:12, 33:9, 35:2 Defendants [1] - 1:9 DEFENDANTS [1] - 1:16 defender [2] - 35:12, 39:2 Defender's [1] - 15:25 defense [7] - 2:9, 19:21, 29:7, 30:18, 30:19, 34:23, 37:12 degrees [1] - 25:17 denies [1] - 25:13 DENISE [2] - 1:7, 21:15 Denise [1] - 11:16 deputy [1] - 45:18 desire [1] - 13:21 despite [1] - 40:19 detailed [1] - 4:8 details [1] - 38:9 detained [1] - 3:5 determine [1] - 45:10 differences [1] - 32:8 different [5] - 25:17, 25:18, 27:4, 29:2 differently [1] - 30:23 difficult [3] - 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13:1 far [5] - 8:6, 13:12, 13:19, 21:20, 23:4 fault [1] - 33:13 favor [3] - 4:16, 4:19, 6:2 favorable [1] - 28:3 FCRR [1] - 1:19 federal [2] - 35:12, 39:2 fees [2] - 39:5, 39:7 felony [1] - 24:23 file [1] - 14:13 filed [3] - 2:18, 10:24, 37:9 filing [2] - 2:21, 14:1 final [2] - 13:5, 13:23 findings [1] - 14:15 fine [3] - 15:22, 19:21, 21:1 fingers [1] - 35:2 first [10] - 3:22, 8:21, 9:11, 21:12, 21:17, 26:3, 29:19, 30:11, 30:24, 34:22 five [1] - 25:1 flight [1] - 3:6 FLORIDA [1] - 1:2 Florida [4] - 1:4, 1:21, 46:12, 46:12 fluently [2] - 21:23, 23:7 focusing [1] - 37:12 followed [1] - 35:20 FOR [1] - 1:13 foregoing [1] - 46:7 forever [1] - 14:5 form [1] - 14:14 formal [1] - 10:11 Fort [1] - 1:4 forward [5] - 3:18, 7:5, 8:14, 9:8, 11:4 FPR [1] - 1:19 FPR-C [1] - 1:19 frankly [1] - 37:5 fraud [4] - 24:20, 24:25, 25:1 free [3] - 39:21, 41:15, 43:13 freely [3] - 42:10, 44:5, 44:18 frequent [1] - 32:3 frequently [2] - 32:10, 32:11 front [1] - 6:4 full [1] - 27:20 fully [16] - 8:15, 18:2, 18:11, 20:21, 22:22, 24:16, 26:20, 26:21, 28:22, 29:16, 33:18, 38:10, 42:4, 43:24, 44:15, 45:1 fulsome [1] - 11:3 G gallery [1] - 2:12 game [1] - 4:20 Garcia [13] - 3:1, 3:10, 3:19, 4:8, 5:15, 6:13, 6:19, 8:12, 9:8, 9:13, 9:17, 12:11, 12:18 gentleman [1] - 15:13 given [1] - 6:1 glaring [1] - 10:20 God [1] - 24:12 Goodman [4] - 4:7, 6:5, 7:6 Goodman's [2] - 5:1, 5:11 Government [25] - 2:5, 3:1, 4:12, 6:14, 8:9, 10:18, 10:24, 12:11, 12:17, 14:20, 15:4, 16:13, 17:20, 26:10, 27:10, 27:12, 27:14, 27:15, 27:17, 29:5, 30:21, 31:11, 44:20, 45:7, 45:9 GOVERNMENT [1] - 1:13 Government's [2] - 3:3, 5:17 guess [9] - 6:12, 7:23, 8:11, 9:5, 9:6, 10:7, 10:8, 35:21, 37:21 guide [1] - 5:12 guidelines [1] - 27:7 guilt [1] - 13:9 guilty [3] - 32:2, 32:13, 32:16 H hand [4] - 4:7, 5:2, 21:13, 46:3 handled [1] - 5:13 hands [1] - 21:16 happy [1] - 12:15 hard [1] - 28:9 harm [1] - 33:16 harmful [1] - 28:3 harming [1] - 27:15 harsh [1] - 33:12 hear [2] - 12:15, Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 49 31:17 heard [1] - 29:5 hearing [21] - 3:2, 3:10, 3:19, 4:9, 5:15, 6:13, 6:19, 8:12, 9:8, 9:13, 9:18, 10:22, 10:25, 12:4, 12:12, 13:19, 16:16, 18:1, 19:13, 20:13, 45:11 HEARING [1] - 1:10 heart [1] - 18:1 held [1] - 31:14 HELD [1] - 1:11 help [9] - 26:5, 26:8, 29:25, 30:8, 31:2, 31:19, 32:21, 32:22, 33:17 helped [1] - 30:19 helpful [2] - 9:6, 37:23 helps [2] - 28:12, 32:19 high [1] - 21:21 hiring [2] - 20:12, 39:14 hold [7] - 7:8, 8:1, 9:20, 15:5, 32:4, 45:17, 45:23 hole [1] - 10:20 honest [1] - 37:20 Honor [67] - 2:6, 2:10, 2:18, 3:4, 4:5, 4:7, 6:18, 6:22, 7:17, 8:6, 9:15, 10:8, 11:6, 11:7, 12:22, 14:4, 14:18, 15:2, 15:3, 15:13, 15:22, 16:3, 16:8, 16:23, 17:9, 19:7, 19:10, 19:15, 22:24, 24:14, 25:6, 25:23, 25:25, 26:24, 27:22, 30:3, 33:3, 33:21, 34:1, 34:4, 34:15, 34:21, 35:7, 36:2, 37:4, 37:9, 37:19, 38:1, 38:7, 38:19, 39:23, 40:11, 40:16, 40:25, 41:4, 41:10, 41:13, 41:17, 41:20, 41:23, 42:3, 42:6, 42:9, 42:12, 42:15, 42:18, 45:15 Honor's [2] - 7:13, 13:4 HONORABLE [1] - 1:11 hopefully [1] - 14:8 Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 49 of 54 hour [2] - 3:15, 37:10 hours [2] - 22:8, 23:17 hung [3] - 30:13, 30:14, 30:15 hurt [5] - 26:16, 26:18, 26:19, 29:25, 30:8 hurts [1] - 32:19 husband [2] - 4:8, 28:10 husbands [1] - 28:15 hypothetical [2] - 9:1, 28:17 hypothetically [1] - 36:23 hypotheticals [1] - 6:6 I idea [1] - 39:17 identifies [1] - 35:17 illness [2] - 22:1, 23:10 imagine [1] - 39:14 immunity [1] - 26:11 implicate [1] - 29:22 implication [1] - 13:14 implicitly [1] - 27:15 important [7] - 17:20, 17:25, 18:6, 20:24, 24:16, 41:16, 43:14 imposed [1] - 27:8 impossible [1] - 33:14 impression [1] - 6:13 incidentally [1] - 34:23 inclination [1] - 13:8 include [1] - 24:19 including [2] - 26:12, 27:13 incredibly [1] - 17:25 independent [15] - 4:3, 4:10, 5:16, 5:20, 5:22, 16:1, 18:18, 19:12, 26:4, 31:20, 32:25, 39:19, 41:15, 41:22, 43:13 independently [1] - 10:7 indicate [1] - 13:25 indicated [3] - 2:25, 13:15, 13:20 indicted [1] - 4:19 indictment [4] - 11:11, 12:9, 35:16, 45:8 indirectly [2] - 42:17, 44:12 individuals [1] - 4:10 influence [2] - 22:3, 23:12 information [4] - 3:11, 3:13, 9:22, 44:14 informed [8] - 8:16, 18:8, 18:9, 18:11, 21:11, 22:23, 24:13, 44:15 inherent [1] - 20:3 inhibited [1] - 26:3 initial [2] - 3:1, 34:24 input [1] - 9:5 instance [1] - 4:25 instruct [1] - 31:13 instructed [1] - 31:15 instructs [1] - 31:12 insufficient [1] - 5:19 intelligently [1] - 6:8 intend [1] - 11:20 intention [1] - 35:4 interest [15] - 12:3, 18:1, 18:13, 18:17, 18:18, 25:12, 26:19, 26:22, 27:5, 29:21, 30:20, 31:8, 33:19, 42:8, 44:3 interests [6] - 25:21, 26:20, 27:20, 28:22, 32:24, 32:25 interject [1] - 17:9 interns [2] - 15:18, 15:21 interview [1] - 26:5 intimated [2] - 6:2, 14:5 introduced [1] - 36:18 investigation [1] - 26:4 invite [1] - 45:18 involved [2] - 35:18, 38:5 involvement [1] - 25:17 issue [7] - 5:17, 8:12, 10:1, 12:1, 12:6, 37:21, 44:22 issues [2] - 37:17, 45:2 issuing [1] - 9:20 J JARED [1] - 1:11 job [1] - 18:10 Johnny [2] - 17:12, 17:16 joint [5] - 4:12, 8:14, 11:23, 17:3, 18:24 jointly [2] - 4:24, 39:11 Jr [2] - 17:12, 17:16 Judge [10] - 4:7, 5:11, 5:12, 5:23, 6:4, 6:5, 7:6, 9:7, 14:4, 14:17 JUDGE [1] - 1:11 July [1] - 1:5 jurors [2] - 28:2, 28:5 jury [9] - 7:7, 28:2, 28:6, 28:13, 30:13, 30:14, 30:15, 31:14, 31:16 justice [1] - 18:14 K keep [6] - 22:21, 24:12, 28:5, 28:8, 28:20, 32:21 kind [3] - 14:5, 27:8, 28:18 kinds [1] - 19:23 knowing [2] - 41:25, 43:20 knowingly [1] - 44:18 known [3] - 35:9, 37:1, 37:2 knows [1] - 31:1 L lack [2] - 34:13, 34:19 LANCE [1] - 1:19 last [5] - 13:1, 22:8, 23:17, 36:18, 38:2 latter [1] - 5:23 Lauderdale [1] - 1:4 law [1] - 15:21 lawyer [22] - 7:9, 17:23, 19:4, 19:12, 20:10, 21:3, 25:11, 25:14, 25:19, 25:20, 26:3, 26:14, 26:15, 27:14, 27:19, 29:14, 30:9, 30:25, 31:7, 31:18, 32:14, 32:19 lawyer's [1] - 27:3 lead [2] - 29:17, 34:19 learn [1] - 26:4 learned [1] - 26:9 learns [1] - 26:8 least [3] - 6:13, 11:1, 12:2 leave [3] - 14:23, 15:11, 15:12 leaving [1] - 12:24 legal [3] - 15:14, 18:19, 18:20 less [5] - 27:12, 28:19, 32:13, 33:10, 33:13 lesser [1] - 26:11 linger [1] - 14:5 live [1] - 18:9 lives [1] - 39:17 loan [2] - 35:15, 36:5 loans [1] - 36:10 looking [2] - 15:2, 32:25 M ma'am [1] - 21:18 MAGISTRATE [1] - 1:11 maintaining [1] - 18:21 marital [1] - 37:17 matter [5] - 19:22, 40:2, 41:16, 43:14, 46:7 maximum [1] - 24:24 McCray [18] - 17:12, 17:16, 19:6, 19:22, 20:1, 22:21, 27:21, 29:20, 37:9, 38:12, 38:13, 39:11, 40:4, 41:25, 43:20, 44:17, 45:4 McCray's [1] - 24:10 mean [7] - 4:6, 4:24, 7:3, 15:4, 35:4, 37:5, 37:19 meaning [1] - 11:24 mechanical [1] - 1:23 medication [3] - 22:6, 23:15, 23:19 mental [2] - 21:25, 23:9 mention [1] - 4:2 mentioned [1] - 4:5 mentioning [1] - 5:17 Miami [3] - 1:20, 1:21, 46:12 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 50 might [15] - 3:12, 6:3, 6:23, 7:8, 9:22, 27:8, 28:12, 28:18, 29:24, 31:2, 32:25, 37:1, 37:2, 37:23 mind [1] - 25:21 minor [2] - 27:11, 33:11 minute [1] - 10:13 mistreated [1] - 28:15 mistrial [2] - 30:12, 34:22 moment [2] - 9:17, 11:12 Monday [1] - 7:22 money [1] - 39:20 morning [6] - 2:6, 2:8, 2:10, 2:13, 2:14, 3:14 most [3] - 3:11, 6:13, 18:5 mothers [1] - 28:13 motion [5] - 10:11, 10:24, 12:11, 13:21, 14:13 move [2] - 3:18, 11:3 moving [2] - 3:1, 9:10 MR [89] - 2:10, 2:18, 2:23, 3:22, 4:1, 5:6, 5:8, 5:10, 7:25, 8:4, 9:15, 11:6, 15:2, 15:13, 15:16, 15:22, 16:3, 16:5, 16:8, 16:12, 17:9, 17:11, 19:10, 19:19, 20:8, 20:17, 21:7, 22:24, 23:3, 23:5, 23:8, 23:11, 23:14, 23:18, 23:20, 23:23, 24:1, 24:4, 24:8, 24:11, 24:14, 25:8, 25:25, 27:1, 27:25, 29:1, 30:6, 30:14, 31:4, 31:24, 33:5, 33:23, 34:7, 34:10, 34:15, 34:21, 35:1, 35:7, 35:15, 35:20, 36:2, 36:11, 36:17, 36:24, 37:4, 37:7, 37:19, 38:1, 38:12, 38:14, 38:19, 39:6, 39:10, 39:25, 40:13, 40:16, 42:23, 43:2, 43:8, 43:11, 43:15, 43:18, 43:23, 44:1, 44:4, 44:7, 44:10, 44:13, 45:15 Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 50 of 54 MS [66] - 2:6, 3:4, 3:17, 4:5, 4:18, 5:7, 5:9, 5:11, 5:23, 6:11, 6:18, 6:21, 10:4, 10:17, 11:7, 12:22, 13:2, 13:4, 14:2, 14:8, 14:12, 14:18, 16:23, 19:7, 19:15, 19:17, 20:6, 20:15, 21:5, 21:19, 21:21, 21:24, 22:2, 22:5, 22:9, 22:12, 22:16, 22:19, 25:6, 25:23, 26:24, 27:22, 28:24, 30:3, 31:10, 31:22, 33:3, 33:21, 34:1, 34:4, 39:23, 40:11, 40:25, 41:4, 41:10, 41:13, 41:17, 41:20, 41:23, 42:3, 42:6, 42:9, 42:12, 42:15, 42:18, 45:21 multi [1] - 32:11 multi-defendant [1] - 32:11 multiple [1] - 33:9 N name [1] - 4:20 nature [1] - 9:4 navigate [1] - 31:19 necessarily [4] - 29:21, 31:8, 31:19, 32:24 necessary [2] - 14:14, 44:23 necessity [1] - 4:4 need [25] - 6:16, 8:18, 9:25, 10:21, 11:9, 11:10, 12:1, 12:4, 12:7, 12:8, 12:16, 14:25, 15:8, 15:9, 20:4, 20:9, 20:23, 21:2, 21:8, 21:12, 29:5, 31:7, 41:18, 43:16, 45:2 needs [6] - 4:14, 4:20, 9:24, 10:14, 45:9, 45:11 negotiate [2] - 27:3, 27:14 negotiating [1] - 27:4 negotiations [2] - 27:3, 27:16 never [1] - 13:3 new [2] - 38:23 NO [1] - 1:3 nonreported [1] - 5:9 North [1] - 1:20 notes [1] - 13:7 nothing [3] - 9:2, 13:13, 19:21 notice [1] - 37:9 Number [2] - 2:3, 11:17 O oath [1] - 21:12 object [3] - 4:12, 32:20, 32:21 objected [1] - 3:9 objection [2] - 4:13, 6:24 obligation [1] - 29:20 observes [1] - 18:21 obvious [1] - 8:22 obviously [5] - 7:3, 9:2, 10:15, 10:23, 13:19 occur [4] - 42:2, 42:5, 43:22, 43:25 occurred [1] - 37:8 OF [5] - 1:2, 1:4, 1:10, 1:16, 46:5 offenses [2] - 17:21, 24:23 offer [3] - 5:16, 26:10, 26:15 offering [1] - 5:18 Office [3] - 1:14, 14:22, 15:25 often [1] - 29:9 old [2] - 21:17, 23:2 ON [1] - 1:16 once [1] - 12:16 one [47] - 3:19, 7:4, 7:6, 7:9, 7:10, 15:5, 18:5, 18:6, 18:9, 25:11, 26:5, 26:6, 26:8, 26:11, 26:12, 26:17, 27:5, 27:6, 27:9, 27:13, 27:18, 28:11, 29:4, 29:5, 29:10, 29:12, 29:14, 29:22, 31:15, 31:16, 31:17, 32:7, 32:11, 32:19, 33:16, 33:17, 35:10, 35:25, 37:22, 37:24, 39:1, 39:21, 45:11, 45:17 open [1] - 45:19 opinion [1] - 5:8 opportunity [2] - 41:14, 43:12 Order [1] - 2:1 order [12] - 8:17, 9:21, 10:1, 14:16, 15:9, 16:15, 16:17, 29:16, 29:25, 33:17, 44:23, 45:3 orderly [1] - 18:14 otherwise [2] - 10:7, 45:1 ought [1] - 26:14 overcome [1] - 18:15 owes [2] - 26:6, 32:17 own [5] - 29:7, 40:23, 41:7, 42:21, 43:5 P pages [1] - 1:8 paid [2] - 39:5, 39:7 parse [1] - 37:5 particular [2] - 10:14, 32:9 parties [4] - 3:13, 4:25, 5:25, 35:23 party [7] - 34:23, 36:22, 37:14, 38:4, 38:5 party's [1] - 38:6 pass [3] - 9:16, 11:9, 11:11 patient [1] - 45:17 patiently [1] - 20:19 pause [1] - 9:22 pay [3] - 39:15, 39:20, 40:4 paying [2] - 39:11, 40:4 people [3] - 28:7, 28:20, 33:11 perhaps [3] - 9:24, 12:2, 27:9 permanent [6] - 2:19, 2:22, 3:18, 9:9, 17:7, 17:17 permission [1] - 3:8 person [12] - 13:16, 17:23, 17:25, 27:16, 28:18, 36:11, 36:14, 36:15, 36:19, 37:11, 37:13 person's [2] - 27:5, 27:20 personally [1] - 19:22 personnel [2] - 15:17, 15:21 piece [2] - 32:18, 32:20 pieces [1] - 32:9 places [1] - 32:23 Plaintiff [1] - 1:5 plan [1] - 2:21 plane [2] - 3:7 planned [1] - 3:5 played [1] - 33:11 plea [2] - 27:3 plead [1] - 32:1 point [9] - 3:4, 6:25, 8:12, 10:16, 12:7, 12:24, 16:16, 19:1, 45:13 pointed [1] - 7:6 pointing [1] - 35:2 pool [1] - 39:16 pooling [1] - 39:15 poor [1] - 18:8 position [5] - 3:3, 3:21, 5:18, 5:25, 7:15 possibility [2] - 36:21, 37:3 possible [6] - 14:3, 18:24, 28:9, 28:13, 29:15, 29:21 potential [22] - 3:12, 4:11, 7:12, 8:7, 8:10, 8:22, 9:19, 10:8, 12:2, 12:15, 17:22, 18:16, 25:16, 33:25, 34:6, 38:16, 38:21, 40:19, 41:6, 42:5, 43:4, 43:25 potentially [5] - 6:6, 9:3, 26:12, 27:16, 32:2 prefer [1] - 16:21 preference [1] - 16:22 prejudice [4] - 7:21, 7:23, 7:24, 34:14 prepared [1] - 46:8 preparing [1] - 36:10 prescription [2] - 22:7, 23:16 present [7] - 2:11, 6:22, 7:17, 15:18, 34:21, 37:3, 44:21 presented [1] - 44:14 pressure [1] - 23:20 prevent [1] - 37:24 previous [1] - 37:8 primarily [1] - 34:23 prison [4] - 24:24, 24:25, 25:1, 25:3 privilege [3] - 16:17, 26:7, 37:17 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 51 pro [1] - 29:12 problem [3] - 10:14, 25:16, 28:2 problems [3] - 7:5, 7:12, 32:2 proceed [10] - 11:18, 12:20, 16:11, 24:17, 41:24, 43:19, 44:16, 45:4, 45:7, 45:19 Proceedings [1] - 1:23 proceedings [6] - 12:20, 13:24, 18:20, 22:14, 46:7, 46:8 produced [1] - 1:24 profession [1] - 18:20 proffer [2] - 14:14, 44:21 proffering [1] - 8:9 promised [2] - 42:13, 44:8 proposing [4] - 11:1, 17:7, 17:17, 19:24 protect [2] - 16:17, 26:20 provided [1] - 46:8 Public [1] - 15:25 public [3] - 18:21, 35:12, 39:2 published [1] - 5:8 pursue [5] - 25:18, 28:21, 29:4, 29:24, 32:6 put [3] - 12:16, 21:12, 21:16 Q questions [12] - 7:13, 18:23, 21:9, 22:14, 23:1, 24:10, 34:2, 34:8, 40:20, 41:11, 42:20, 43:9 quite [2] - 37:4, 37:8 R R-O-B-A-I-N-A [1] - 5:3 raise [3] - 21:13, 41:8, 43:6 raised [1] - 8:23 raises [2] - 10:19, 12:6 ramifications [1] - 38:10 Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 51 of 54 rather [1] - 20:20 re [1] - 2:15 read [4] - 21:22, 23:7, 45:25, 46:2 real [2] - 10:20, 30:24 really [14] - 4:14, 5:12, 7:1, 8:17, 9:23, 10:14, 10:20, 18:25, 20:23, 26:16, 28:18, 29:5, 32:15, 40:2 reason [5] - 4:1, 7:20, 7:25, 22:21, 45:10 reasons [1] - 5:17 Recess [1] - 11:14 recognizes [1] - 18:12 recollection [5] - 36:17, 37:7, 37:10, 38:3, 38:7 recommendation [1] - 14:17 record [7] - 5:2, 7:2, 12:14, 13:5, 45:9, 45:19, 46:7 recorded [1] - 1:23 recording [3] - 1:24, 46:4, 46:8 redo [1] - 45:12 reduction [1] - 27:10 regarding [1] - 37:17 regardless [1] - 19:24 rejecting [1] - 26:15 relationship [2] - 29:24, 38:6 remaining [1] - 15:10 remember [1] - 6:22 repeat [1] - 34:15 rephrase [1] - 19:2 report [2] - 2:15, 14:16 represent [13] - 3:2, 4:25, 12:3, 17:7, 17:17, 17:19, 19:25, 27:20, 29:16, 40:15, 42:1, 43:20, 44:17 representation [12] - 2:16, 4:13, 8:14, 8:15, 11:23, 17:3, 18:25, 20:3, 27:2, 28:1, 33:14, 38:10 representatives [1] - 14:21 represented [1] - 11:24 representing [10] - 17:4, 17:6, 17:16, 25:14, 26:15, 30:25, 31:18, 32:14, 33:18, 45:4 represents [4] - 25:11, 25:20, 40:23, 42:22 request [2] - 3:17, 4:6 require [1] - 27:11 required [1] - 7:14 requirement [1] - 5:24 requires [1] - 5:15 reschedule [1] - 20:13 resolve [1] - 8:5 resources [2] - 39:15, 39:16 respect [2] - 4:2, 35:16 responsibility [2] - 13:11 responsible [1] - 37:13 result [4] - 34:13, 34:14, 42:1, 43:21 resulted [1] - 34:22 retain [1] - 35:11 return [2] - 42:14, 44:9 reviewed [1] - 8:20 risk [1] - 30:22 risks [1] - 30:24 Robaina [1] - 5:3 role [2] - 27:11, 33:11 RPR [1] - 1:19 rushed [1] - 20:25 S satisfied [1] - 8:13 saw [1] - 8:21 scenario [1] - 28:9 scenarios [1] - 28:18 schedules [1] - 20:22 school [3] - 21:20, 21:21, 23:4 seal [2] - 16:9, 16:13 sealed [1] - 16:17 seated [1] - 2:11 second [5] - 15:5, 26:10, 30:23, 45:17, 45:23 see [7] - 4:4, 5:13, 7:21, 10:12, 13:3, 35:8, 44:20 seek [1] - 39:1 sees [1] - 10:8 selection [1] - 28:2 sense [7] - 7:4, 10:3, 10:4, 11:5, 12:21, 16:13, 45:14 sent [1] - 13:7 sentence [4] - 26:11, 27:8, 27:11, 33:12 sentenced [1] - 24:24 sentencing [8] - 25:19, 27:7, 32:1, 32:2, 32:5, 33:7, 33:9, 33:10 separate [7] - 35:11, 35:15, 40:19, 41:2, 41:7, 42:25, 43:5 serious [5] - 17:21, 18:16, 22:18, 24:19 set [2] - 10:25, 42:20 sets [1] - 39:20 SHICK [23] - 1:14, 2:6, 3:4, 3:17, 4:5, 4:18, 5:7, 5:9, 5:11, 5:23, 6:11, 6:18, 6:21, 10:4, 10:17, 11:7, 12:22, 13:2, 13:4, 14:2, 14:8, 14:12, 14:18 Shick [11] - 2:6, 2:8, 2:25, 5:18, 8:17, 8:23, 9:19, 10:3, 12:13, 12:21, 14:21 shirt [1] - 15:14 short [1] - 37:15 shortly [1] - 36:12 shoulder [2] - 17:24 showing [1] - 18:16 side [1] - 31:17 sign [2] - 45:25, 46:3 similar [1] - 42:20 similarly [4] - 29:2, 30:7, 31:11, 32:18 simply [2] - 5:20, 20:3 simultaneously [1] - 36:19 situation [3] - 29:17, 35:1, 38:22 skills [1] - 20:2 skipped [1] - 32:4 slightly [1] - 30:23 Small [7] - 24:21, 24:22, 25:2, 25:3, 35:24, 36:3, 36:6 Snider [15] - 2:25, 3:5, 6:8, 6:17, 7:1, 8:1, 8:8, 9:5, 9:21, 10:11, 12:23, 13:17, 13:20, 13:25, 14:11 Snider's [2] - 4:6, 5:25 someone [7] - 20:11, 36:9, 40:3, 40:5, 40:7, 40:8 soon [1] - 14:6 sorry [7] - 15:5, 15:7, 15:24, 16:20, 22:21, 24:12, 32:4 sort [3] - 13:13, 23:19, 37:10 sound [1] - 10:2 SOUTHERN [1] - 1:2 Southern [1] - 46:12 speaking [1] - 17:1 specific [1] - 37:18 spoken [2] - 3:9, 12:23 stake [1] - 7:4 standards [1] - 18:19 standing [1] - 17:24 started [1] - 33:6 state [1] - 12:14 statement [2] - 24:22, 25:3 statements [4] - 24:20, 25:2, 37:18, 37:22 STATES [3] - 1:1, 1:4, 1:11 States [8] - 1:14, 1:20, 2:7, 5:3, 11:15, 14:22, 25:9, 46:11 status [1] - 2:16 stay [6] - 7:15, 15:19, 15:21, 15:25, 45:21, 45:22 stays [1] - 12:8 Steinbeisser [1] - 46:10 STEINBEISSER [1] - 1:19 stenography [1] - 1:23 stick [1] - 40:6 still [3] - 3:3, 12:23, 46:2 story [1] - 31:17 strategies [2] - 25:18, 29:3 strategy [4] - 32:4, 32:6, 32:8, 32:11 Strauss [1] - 5:12 STRAUSS [1] - 1:11 strike [3] - 28:7, 28:8, 28:21 strong [1] - 37:7 stuck [1] - 12:24 submit [2] - 8:9, 9:21 submitting [1] - 9:20 substance [1] - 22:1 substances [1] - Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 52 23:10 suggested [1] - 13:17 suggesting [1] - 28:17 suggestion [1] - 13:4 superseding [3] - 11:11, 12:9, 45:8 supplement [2] - 13:5, 13:22 supposed [1] - 7:8 sworn [2] - 21:14, 21:15 sympathetic [3] - 28:14, 28:19 system [1] - 18:7 T terms [1] - 35:17 testified [4] - 4:16, 8:21, 29:18, 30:11 testifies [1] - 31:15 testify [10] - 7:7, 29:8, 29:9, 29:14, 30:10, 30:20, 31:1, 31:14, 32:7, 38:3 testifying [6] - 7:10, 29:6, 29:19, 30:8, 31:7, 37:25 testimony [9] - 7:18, 8:25, 13:8, 13:10, 30:17, 31:2, 35:5, 38:3 Texas [2] - 3:6, 12:24 THE [152] - 1:11, 1:13, 1:16, 2:2, 2:8, 2:13, 2:21, 2:24, 3:16, 3:20, 3:25, 4:17, 5:14, 6:10, 6:12, 6:20, 7:23, 8:3, 8:11, 9:16, 10:10, 10:18, 11:8, 11:15, 13:1, 13:3, 13:25, 14:7, 14:10, 14:13, 14:19, 15:5, 15:15, 15:17, 15:23, 16:4, 16:6, 16:10, 16:15, 16:24, 17:10, 17:13, 19:8, 19:11, 19:16, 19:20, 20:7, 20:9, 20:16, 20:18, 21:6, 21:8, 21:16, 21:20, 21:22, 21:25, 22:3, 22:6, 22:10, 22:13, 22:17, 22:20, 22:25, 23:4, 23:6, Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 52 of 54 23:9, 23:12, 23:15, 23:19, 23:21, 23:24, 24:2, 24:5, 24:9, 24:12, 24:15, 25:7, 25:9, 25:24, 26:1, 26:25, 27:2, 27:23, 28:1, 28:25, 29:2, 30:4, 30:7, 30:15, 31:5, 31:11, 31:23, 31:25, 33:4, 33:6, 33:22, 33:24, 34:2, 34:5, 34:8, 34:11, 34:17, 34:25, 35:3, 35:13, 35:17, 35:21, 36:8, 36:13, 36:21, 36:25, 37:6, 37:16, 37:21, 38:8, 38:13, 38:15, 39:4, 39:7, 39:12, 39:24, 40:1, 40:12, 40:14, 40:17, 41:1, 41:5, 41:11, 41:14, 41:18, 41:21, 41:24, 42:4, 42:7, 42:10, 42:13, 42:16, 42:19, 42:24, 43:3, 43:9, 43:12, 43:16, 43:19, 43:24, 44:2, 44:5, 44:8, 44:11, 44:14, 45:16, 45:22 thereby [1] - 13:23 therefore [1] - 24:17 they've [1] - 8:3 thinking [1] - 22:17 thinks [2] - 14:1, 14:14 third [10] - 34:23, 35:23, 36:18, 36:22, 37:14, 38:4, 38:5, 38:6 thorough [1] - 8:18 thoroughly [2] - 29:15, 29:20 threatened [2] - 42:16, 44:11 three [1] - 36:14 throughout [1] - 4:21 today [23] - 2:20, 3:5, 3:24, 8:4, 8:5, 12:25, 14:9, 20:4, 20:20, 22:11, 22:15, 22:18, 22:23, 23:16, 23:25, 24:3, 24:7, 24:13, 34:24, 41:6, 41:12, 43:10, 44:15 together [2] - 19:25, 36:14 tomorrow [2] - 3:11, 3:23 TRACY [2] - 1:7, 21:14 Tracy [3] - 2:2, 2:11, 11:16 transcribed [1] - 10:6 TRANSCRIBER [1] - 46:5 Transcriber [2] - 1:19, 46:11 transcript [6] - 1:24, 10:16, 16:9, 16:14, 46:7, 46:8 TRANSCRIPT [1] - 1:10 transcription [1] - 1:24 treated [2] - 21:25, 23:9 trial [23] - 4:15, 4:21, 6:2, 6:11, 8:22, 13:15, 17:24, 25:18, 29:3, 29:8, 29:19, 30:11, 30:19, 30:23, 30:24, 31:13, 32:6, 32:11, 34:22, 36:18, 37:8, 37:11, 38:2 trials [1] - 18:19 tricked [1] - 28:16 trouble [1] - 25:14 true [1] - 30:22 try [6] - 11:1, 14:2, 16:24, 19:2, 28:20, 32:20 trying [3] - 27:18, 28:6, 39:8 turn [3] - 33:7, 41:9, 43:7 turns [1] - 12:19 two [4] - 19:25, 25:2, 25:11, 39:20 type [1] - 26:10 typically [1] - 32:10 U ultimately [1] - 39:8 unavoidable [1] - 35:9 uncomfortable [1] - 6:1 under [4] - 21:12, 22:3, 23:12, 25:9 UNITED [3] - 1:1, 1:4, 1:11 United [8] - 1:14, 1:20, 2:7, 5:3, 11:15, 14:22, 25:9, 46:11 up [11] - 4:7, 4:22, 5:2, 5:24, 7:17, 10:25, 24:24, 28:9, 45:12, 45:19, 46:3 US [1] - 14:22 utmost [1] - 20:1 V versa [6] - 28:4, 28:7, 30:1, 32:17, 36:24, 36:25 versus [2] - 5:3, 11:16 vice [6] - 28:4, 28:7, 30:1, 32:17, 36:24, 36:25 virtually [1] - 33:14 voluntarily [3] - 42:11, 44:6, 44:19 vs [1] - 1:6 W Wade [119] - 2:2, 2:11, 2:14, 2:17, 3:2, 3:3, 4:3, 4:15, 6:1, 8:21, 9:14, 11:9, 11:10, 11:16, 11:22, 12:10, 12:18, 15:11, 16:18, 16:19, 16:20, 16:21, 17:6, 17:8, 17:16, 17:18, 19:6, 19:8, 19:16, 19:18, 20:5, 20:7, 20:14, 20:16, 21:4, 21:6, 21:17, 23:1, 25:5, 25:7, 25:22, 25:24, 26:20, 26:21, 26:23, 26:25, 27:22, 27:23, 27:24, 28:3, 28:4, 28:5, 28:6, 28:8, 28:12, 28:16, 28:19, 28:21, 28:23, 28:25, 29:18, 29:19, 29:22, 29:25, 30:1, 30:2, 30:4, 30:11, 30:17, 30:18, 31:2, 31:5, 31:7, 31:21, 31:23, 32:16, 32:17, 32:21, 32:22, 33:2, 33:4, 33:20, 33:22, 33:24, 34:5, 34:14, 35:14, 35:16, 36:15, 36:16, 36:23, 38:2, 38:4, 38:6, 38:7, 38:20, 39:13, 39:22, 39:24, 40:10, 40:12, 40:18, 40:21, 40:22, 42:1, 42:2, 42:19, 43:20, 43:21, 44:15, 45:24 WADE [90] - 1:7, 1:8, 16:23, 19:7, 19:10, 19:15, 19:17, 19:19, 20:6, 20:8, 20:15, 20:17, 21:5, 21:7, 21:14, 21:15, 21:19, 21:21, 21:24, 22:2, 22:5, 22:9, 22:12, 22:16, 22:19, 23:3, 23:5, 23:8, 23:11, 23:14, 23:18, 23:20, 23:23, 24:1, 24:4, 24:8, 25:6, 25:8, 25:23, 25:25, 26:24, 27:1, 27:22, 27:25, 28:24, 29:1, 30:3, 30:6, 31:4, 31:10, 31:22, 31:24, 33:3, 33:5, 33:21, 33:23, 34:1, 34:4, 34:7, 34:10, 39:23, 39:25, 40:11, 40:13, 40:25, 41:4, 41:10, 41:13, 41:17, 41:20, 41:23, 42:3, 42:6, 42:9, 42:12, 42:15, 42:18, 42:23, 43:2, 43:8, 43:11, 43:15, 43:18, 43:23, 44:1, 44:4, 44:7, 44:10, 44:13, 45:21 Wade's [12] - 2:25, 8:21, 22:22, 24:11, 24:13, 26:19, 26:20, 29:18, 29:21, 30:11, 32:15, 34:22 wait [3] - 6:17, 13:22, 44:20 Wait [1] - 10:13 waiting [2] - 15:8, 20:19 waive [6] - 41:5, 41:6, 42:7, 43:3, 43:4, 44:2 waiver [8] - 41:8, Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 53 42:10, 42:14, 42:17, 43:6, 44:5, 44:9, 44:12 waivers [2] - 44:23, 45:3 waiving [3] - 4:14, 40:18, 44:19 Wallace [2] - 15:24, 15:25 wants [9] - 9:10, 9:21, 10:11, 18:7, 27:9, 28:5, 28:8, 33:10 ways [1] - 26:2 Wednesday [1] - 14:11 week [2] - 14:6, 44:21 whatsoever [2] - 22:6, 23:15 white [1] - 15:13 whole [2] - 8:12, 10:16 wife [4] - 4:8, 6:2, 13:11, 28:10 Wilcox [37] - 2:10, 2:13, 2:15, 3:2, 3:9, 3:19, 3:21, 7:24, 10:23, 13:14, 14:25, 15:6, 15:20, 15:24, 16:11, 17:6, 17:14, 17:15, 19:5, 19:20, 19:22, 20:1, 22:20, 24:9, 29:11, 29:19, 30:15, 34:11, 35:4, 40:4, 40:14, 41:24, 43:19, 44:17, 45:4, 45:14, 45:24 WILCOX [48] - 1:17, 2:10, 2:18, 2:23, 3:22, 4:1, 5:6, 5:8, 5:10, 7:25, 8:4, 9:15, 11:6, 15:2, 15:13, 15:16, 15:22, 16:3, 16:5, 16:8, 16:12, 17:9, 17:11, 22:24, 24:11, 24:14, 30:14, 34:15, 34:21, 35:1, 35:7, 35:15, 35:20, 36:2, 36:11, 36:17, 36:24, 37:4, 37:7, 37:19, 38:1, 38:12, 38:14, 38:19, 39:6, 39:10, 40:16, 45:15 Williams [3] - 9:7, 14:4, 14:17 wire [4] - 24:20, 24:25 Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 53 of 54 Lance W. Steinbeisser - Federal Certified Realtime Reporter 54 wisdom [1] - 26:14 wish [3] - 30:10, 41:9, 43:7 wishes [2] - 44:17, 44:20 withdraw [1] - 6:24 witness [3] - 4:18, 6:1, 29:15 witnesses [1] - 35:19 wives [1] - 28:13 WL [1] - 5:4 women [1] - 28:15 wonder [1] - 31:16 wondering [2] - 6:12, 7:9 word [1] - 36:5 words [9] - 13:1, 17:4, 18:17, 20:18, 26:7, 26:17, 27:18, 39:8, 40:1 wrinkle [1] - 44:21 write [2] - 10:8, 10:11 writing [1] - 8:9 written [1] - 13:21 wrongdoing [1] - 37:13 wrought [1] - 7:11 Y years [4] - 24:24, 24:25, 25:1, 25:2 yourself [1] - 20:12 Case 0:23-cr-60173-KMW Document 274 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/22/2025 Page 54 of 54
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