Court filing
Public version of Exhibit A-03 — Brooks v. Thomson Reuters Corporation (Dkt. 151.3)
Filed January 26, 2023 in Brooks v. Thomson Reuters Corporation; one of 127 filings from this case.
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2023-01-26 |
U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California · No. 3:21-cv-01418-EMC · Doc. 151-3 · 2023-01-26 · Docket on CourtListener
Full text
EXHIBIT A-3
Case 3:21-cv-01418-EMC Document 151-3 Filed 01/26/23 Page 1 of 32
8/18/2022
Cat Brooks and Rasheed Shabazz, et al. v. Thomson Reuters Corp.
Rasheed Shabazz
Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2022
202-232-0646
Page 1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION
______________________________
CAT BROOKS and RASHEED SHABAZZ)
individually and on behalf of )
all others similarly situated,)
)
Plaintiffs, )
) Case No.:
v. ) 3:21-cv-1418-EMC
)
THOMSON REUTERS CORPORATION, )
)
Defendant. )
______________________________)
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL -- ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
DEPOSITION OF RASHEED SHABAZZ
AUGUST 18, 2022
9:12 a.m.
505 Howard Street, Suite 1000
San Francisco, California
REPORTED BY:
Siew G. Ung
CSR No. 13994, RPR, CSR
______________________________________________________
DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
Washington, D.C. 20036
(202) 232-0646
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APPEARANCES:
2
3
For PLAINTIFFS:
4
GIBBS LAW GROUP LLP
5
MARK TROUTMAN, ESQ.
6
EZEKIEL S. WALD, ESQ. (telephonic)
7
ANDRE MURA, ESQ. (telephonic)
8
1111 Broadway, Suite 2100
9
Oakland, California 94607
10
510.350.9700
11
Mht@classlawgroup.com
12
Zsw@classlawgroup.com
13
Amm@classlawgroup.com
14
15
For DEFENDANT:
16
PERKINS COIE LLP
17
NICOLA C. MENALDO, ESQ.
18
KAYLA LINDGREN, ESQ.
19
1201 Third Avenue, Suite 4900
20
Seattle, Washington 98101
206.359.8000
21
NMenaldo@perkinscoie.com
KLindgren@perkinscoie.com
22
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1
(Discussion held off the record.)
2
(Recess taken.)
3
BY MS. MENALDO:
4
Q. So we were talking about your journalism
5
before the break. Do you consult public records in the
6
course of research --
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. -- for your journalism? Yes.
9
Do you consult public records for reasons
10
other than journalistic activities?
11
A. Yes.
12
Q. Briefly, what other reasons do you have for
13
consulting public records?
14
A. The genealogy example that I previously
15
shared, as well as for academic research.
16
Q. I am going to show you --
17
A. Excuse me.
18
Q. -- what is being marked as Exhibit 2.
19
(Whereupon, Exhibit 2 was marked for
20
identification.)
21
BY MS. MENALDO:
22
Q. Do you recognize this document? Did you --
4
Q. So we were talking about your journalism
5
before the break. Do you consult public records in the
6
course of research --
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. -- for your journalism? Yes.
9
Do you consult public records for reasons
10
other than journalistic activities?
11
A. Yes.
12
Q. Briefly, what other reasons do you have for
13
consulting public records?
14
A. The genealogy example that I previously
15
shared, as well as for academic research.
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page there?
2
A. Oh, yes. Yes, ma'am.
3
Q. And -- and you did in fact make that request?
4
A. I did.
5
Q. Okay. What are historic demographics?
6
A. I was interested in understanding - so I think
7
I mentioned the swimming pool --
8
Q. Yeah.
9
A. -- example earlier. So I was interested in
10
understanding who was the membership at the sort of --
11
like the collective membership of this -- this group,
12
the APSA. So the -- the accusations that are being made
13
publicly by people is that it's basically all -- it's
14
been a whites-only swimming pool place.
15
Q. Hmm.
16
A. And I don't know if that's completely
17
accurate. So I requested this information to see if
18
they had anything about who their membership was to be
19
able to assess that claim.
20
Q. So you asked for personal information about
21
members of this organization to assess whether or not a
22
claim about the organization being a whites-only
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organization was true?
2
MR. TROUTMAN: Objection to form.
3
You can answer.
4
THE WITNESS: Can you rephrase the question?
5
BY MS. MENALDO:
6
Q. Do you consider race, gender, et cetera, to be
7
personal information?
8
A. I think depending on the scale.
9
Q. So something is personal information if it's
10
collected on a large scale, but not personal information
11
if it's not?
12
A. That's why people ID the -- the -- what is
13
it -- de-identify information. So, for example, the
14
United States Census Bureau collects information every
15
ten years, ACS every few years, and you can get
16
neighborhood demographics at the census track level and
17
some information at the block level or the block group
18
level, but you can't get it at the block level, and that
19
is because there's concerns about that level of personal
20
information being shared. So historically, of course,
21
we have the example of, you know, the United States
22
using that data on the Japanese to put them in the
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concentration camps during World War II.
2
Q. So race and gender, et cetera, can be personal
3
information if it's tied to other individually
4
identifying information?
5
A. I think certainly. And then I imagine -- I
6
don't know how different people consider it, but people
7
with different racial identities, people who -- who have
8
passed, if you're familiar with the former practice of
9
people essentially pretending to be of one racial group
10
to escape something or whatever, or the same thing for
11
people with different gender identities. So there's
12
people who might be trans and who are outed, and they
13
did not ask anybody what their pronoun or -- or oth- --
14
or to -- to ask them that information, and then that
15
forces them to reveal their gender identity where it may
16
have been personal for them.
17
So I just say that to say it may be personal
18
for different people, and then other people they are not
19
tripping off of --
20
THE REPORTER: Other people they are not
21
tripping off of --
22
THE WITNESS: They're not as concerned.
2
Q. So race and gender, et cetera, can be personal
3
information if it's tied to other individually
4
identifying information?
5
A. I think certainly. And then I imagine -- I
6
don't know how different people consider it, but people
7
with different racial identities, people who -- who have
8
passed, if you're familiar with the former practice of
9
people essentially pretending to be of one racial group
10
to escape something or whatever, or the same thing for
11
people with different gender identities. So there's
12
people who might be trans and who are outed, and they
13
did not ask anybody what their pronoun or -- or oth- --
14
or to -- to ask them that information, and then that
15
forces them to reveal their gender identity where it may
16
have been personal for them.
17
So I just say that to say it may be personal
18
for different people, and then other people they are not
19
tripping off of --
20
THE REPORTER: Other people they are not
21
tripping off of --
22
THE WITNESS: They're not as concerned.
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BY MS. MENALDO:
2
Q. So I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
3
I'm just trying to kind of make sure I understand your
4
answer.
5
A. Yeah, sure.
6
Q. So race, gender, et cetera, might be personal
7
information for some people but not for other people?
8
A. Perhaps.
9
Q. Okay. Did you receive a response to this
10
public records access request?
11
A. I did.
12
Q. Did it include the information that you asked
13
for?
14
A. No.
15
Q. What did the response say?
16
A. This information was not being collected by
17
the swimming pool association and the City of Alameda,
18
who I made the request from. They didn't have that --
19
access to that.
20
Q. Okay. Do you think that in certain
21
circumstances -- perhaps like this one -- it might be
22
more important, because of the way that you're using
1
BY MS. MENALDO:
2
Q. So I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
3
I'm just trying to kind of make sure I understand your
4
answer.
5
A. Yeah, sure.
6
Q. So race, gender, et cetera, might be personal
7
information for some people but not for other people?
8
A. Perhaps.
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A. Yes.
2
Q. And it includes some professional history.
3
Does that history look accurate to you?
4
A. At the time, yes.
5
Q. Okay. And it also has some information about
6
your personal life, that you're a yoga teacher, a
7
triathlete, a word traveler, you live with your two
8
cats, Safiya and Geronmio.
9
Is that accurate?
10
A. That's correct.
11
Q. And with apologies for asking you the same
12
question again --
13
A. It's all right.
14
Q. -- would you consider this more personal
15
information at the bottom of this profile to be your
16
personal information?
17
A. Absolutely. I have two black cats. Every
18
Friday, the 13th, it's like, man, don't let nobody do
19
nothing weird to my kittens. Well, they're not kittens
20
anymore, but yeah.
21
Q. In fact, you have a Tumblr about your two
22
cats. Is that true?
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A. I don't recall. I may have shared that with
2
my -- my Tumblr folks.
3
Q. Okay. I have one more exhibit and then I
4
think we can take a -- a break.
5
I'm sharing with you what's been marked as
6
Exhibit 22.
7
(Whereupon, Exhibit 22 was marked for
8
identification.)
9
BY MS. MENALDO:
10
Q. Do you recognize this document?
11
A. Yes.
12
Q. The "To" line says "To Rasheed Shabazz, from
13
Peter Hegarty," sent on December 13th, 2017.
14
Does this appear to be an email that you
15
received from Peter on that date?
16
A. Yeah.
17
Q. And this appears to be related to the movement
18
you described earlier to rename Haight Elementary
19
School, correct?
20
A. That's right.
21
Q. About halfway down the first page it says "For
22
immediate release."
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Is this a press release?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. Okay. And did you draft this press release?
4
A. I did.
5
Q. Did you do that to try to get media attention
6
on this issue?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. Were you hoping it would be published and
9
disseminated broadly?
10
A. Within Alameda, which was the intended
11
audience. That's why I sent it to Peter Hegarty and to
12
the Alameda Sun.
13
Q. Okay. And the press release includes a number
14
of quotes from you on -- I can refer you to the -- the
15
bottom of the first page, towards the top of the second
16
page and towards the bottom of the second page. Are
17
those accurate quotes from you?
18
A. Yes.
19
Q. Do you consider those quotations to be
20
personal information?
21
A. No.
22
Q. Under what circumstances do you try to get the
1
Is this a press release?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. Okay. And did you draft this press release?
4
A. I did.
5
Q. Did you do that to try to get media attention
6
on this issue?
7
A. Yes.
22
Q. Under what circumstances do you try to get the
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media attention on -- on your personal or professional
2
accomplishments?
3
A. Hmm. I think similar to the point I raised
4
earlier about my story of housing insecurity and how
5
that's influenced my research career trajectory. I
6
think there are some instances where I might care for
7
something about to the extent that I will use my story,
8
maybe my name, where I say maybe both, maybe my story
9
and maybe my name to highlight an issue.
10
In this instance with the school, because I
11
had initiated this process and some misinformation had
12
began to spread on some Alameda social media, I was
13
willing to draft this and share this with Pete and
14
Dennis. Peter's -- he passed away -- the reporter at
15
the Alameda Journal, and then he's former editor of the
16
Alameda Sun.
17
But yeah, so I think as far as -- in each of
18
those instances, that's been like on this dossier
19
action -- or this compilation of things -- and some
20
things, you know, I -- that I chose to share at one
21
point. I think in these different instances, like my
22
story could be useful, perhaps, to inspire someone else
1
media attention on -- on your personal or professional
2
accomplishments?
3
A. Hmm. I think similar to the point I raised
4
earlier about my story of housing insecurity and how
5
that's influenced my research career trajectory. I
6
think there are some instances where I might care for
7
something about to the extent that I will use my story,
8
maybe my name, where I say maybe both, maybe my story
9
and maybe my name to highlight an issue.
10
In this instance with the school, because I
11
had initiated this process and some misinformation had
12
began to spread on some Alameda social media, I was
13
willing to draft this and share this with Pete and
14
Dennis. Peter's -- he passed away -- the reporter at
15
the Alameda Journal, and then he's former editor of the
16
Alameda Sun.
17
But yeah, so I think as far as -- in each of
18
those instances, that's been like on this dossier
19
action -- or this compilation of things -- and some
20
things, you know, I -- that I chose to share at one
21
point. I think in these different instances, like my
22
story could be useful, perhaps, to inspire someone else
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to want to go to school, to want to pursue journalism.
2
So I mean it's cool to get some, like, pats on the back
3
sometimes. I'm not as interested in that personally,
4
opposed to, like, getting stuff done.
5
So if I got to make a quote -- like Peter
6
would always -- well, I won't get to it. He was always
7
like, well, who's the person who -- because he's trying
8
to attribute, you know, a quote to somebody -- not with
9
the rename Haight, but rename Jackson. It was always
10
like we need somebody to attribute the quote to. I'm
11
like, Well, it's a collective, it's not an individual.
12
So anyway, in some -- I'm saying this to say
13
in some instances, I would choose to share information
14
about myself or to make -- share my opinion about
15
something in order to further a cause. And in this
16
instance, like getting rid of this racist old government
17
was important to me.
18
Q. Okay. So -- so you'll sometimes seek media
19
attention to gain visibility on issues that you care
20
about?
21
A. Not for me individually. I'm a little bit
22
more go talk to this person, maybe you should talk to
1
to want to go to school, to want to pursue journalism.
2
So I mean it's cool to get some, like, pats on the back
3
sometimes. I'm not as interested in that personally,
4
opposed to, like, getting stuff done.
5
So if I got to make a quote -- like Peter
6
would always -- well, I won't get to it. He was always
7
like, well, who's the person who -- because he's trying
8
to attribute, you know, a quote to somebody -- not with
9
the rename Haight, but rename Jackson. It was always
10
like we need somebody to attribute the quote to. I'm
11
like, Well, it's a collective, it's not an individual.
12
So anyway, in some -- I'm saying this to say
13
in some instances, I would choose to share information
14
about myself or to make -- share my opinion about
15
something in order to further a cause. And in this
16
instance, like getting rid of this racist old government
17
was important to me.
18
Q. Okay. So -- so you'll sometimes seek media
19
attention to gain visibility on issues that you care
20
about?
21
A. Not for me individually. I'm a little bit
22
more go talk to this person, maybe you should talk to
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that person.
2
To utilize media to raise attention to
3
something, yes. Seek media attention for myself, no.
4
Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say you've gained
5
some prominence in your hometown of Alameda?
6
A. Gosh.
7
MR. TROUTMAN: Objection to form.
8
You can answer.
9
THE WITNESS: Okay.
10
BY MS. MENALDO:
11
Q. Do you understand the question?
12
A. I do, I do. It's -- it's -- it's a -- a legit
13
question. It's just -- or partially legit. Um, yeah,
14
there are some people who know my name and think they
15
know me. I'm trying --
16
Q. Would it be fair to say you have gained some
17
notoriety for your accomplishments?
18
A. Probably to a lesser extent, yeah.
19
Q. Last question before the break. Do you -- do
20
you feel like you have control over your information
21
after you've made it public?
22
A. Some and not others.
1
that person.
2
To utilize media to raise attention to
3
something, yes. Seek media attention for myself, no.
4
Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say you've gained
5
some prominence in your hometown of Alameda?
6
A. Gosh.
7
MR. TROUTMAN: Objection to form.
8
You can answer.
9
THE WITNESS: Okay.
10
BY MS. MENALDO:
11
Q. Do you understand the question?
12
A. I do, I do. It's -- it's -- it's a -- a legit
13
question. It's just -- or partially legit. Um, yeah,
14
there are some people who know my name and think they
15
know me. I'm trying --
16
Q. Would it be fair to say you have gained some
17
notoriety for your accomplishments?
18
A. Probably to a lesser extent, yeah.
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of anyone, other than you and Ms. Brooks, who've had a
2
CLEAR report run on them?
3
A. No, not that I recall.
4
Q. When were you first aware that at least one
5
search had been run on your name or other identifying
6
information on CLEAR?
7
A. I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
8
Q. I'll start in a different place, actually.
9
A. Okay. It wasn't a rephrasing. It was just
10
following.
11
Q. Are you aware that a search has been run on
12
your name in CLEAR?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. And how did you become aware of that?
15
A. Yesterday I asked my attorneys and I was made
16
aware that a search had been run on me.
17
Q. Did you discuss that with anyone other than
18
your attorneys?
19
A. No.
20
Q. And you're referring to a deposition
21
preparation session with your attorneys yesterday?
22
A. Yes.
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Q. Okay. And the only people present at that
2
session were you and your attorneys?
3
A. That's correct.
4
Q. Who ran the searches of you in CLEAR?
5
A. I don't know.
6
Q. You don't know? Are --
7
A. I don't recall.
8
Q. Are you aware that one search was run by Quest
9
Research & Investigations?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. Who is Quest Research & Investigations? And
12
we can refer to them as QRI because that's a mouthful.
13
A. Okay. Another acronym.
14
Q. Or Quest.
15
A. Yeah. No, that's fine. Yeah, that was or is
16
the PI firm that was hired, retained by one of our
17
attorneys to utilize the software to see what -- I don't
18
know, see what information was there on -- on -- I just
19
learned the -- the full acronym, the consolidated thing,
20
CLEAR.
21
Q. And the -- Quest was hired by your counsel?
22
A. Yes.
11
Q. Who is Quest Research & Investigations? And
12
we can refer to them as QRI because that's a mouthful.
13
A. Okay. Another acronym.
14
Q. Or Quest.
15
A. Yeah. No, that's fine. Yeah, that was or is
16
the PI firm that was hired, retained by one of our
17
attorneys to utilize the software to see what -- I don't
18
know, see what information was there on -- on -- I just
19
learned the -- the full acronym, the consolidated thing,
20
CLEAR.
21
Q. And the -- Quest was hired by your counsel?
22
A. Yes.
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Q. And to help prepare for this case?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. You hesitated. You think there might have
4
been other reasons for hiring Quest other than to
5
prepare for this case?
6
A. They may have had a prior relationship with
7
them and trusted them, so that's why I took a breath, to
8
think if there was any other reason they may have hired
9
them.
10
Q. Okay. Were the searches run by Quest done
11
with your consent?
12
A. Yes.
13
Q. Do you object to the search having run on your
14
name?
15
A. I wanted to do it. I couldn't do it because
16
I'm an individual, and so I asked them to do it.
17
Q. Okay. Did you provide your consent to Quest
18
in writing or verbally?
19
A. I think it's in writing.
20
Q. What do you remember about that written
21
consent?
22
A. I don't recall much at this point. I believe
1
Q. And to help prepare for this case?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. You hesitated. You think there might have
4
been other reasons for hiring Quest other than to
5
prepare for this case?
6
A. They may have had a prior relationship with
7
them and trusted them, so that's why I took a breath, to
8
think if there was any other reason they may have hired
9
them.
10
Q. Okay. Were the searches run by Quest done
11
with your consent?
12
A. Yes.
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A. Attempt to, yes.
2
Q. Okay. And that's why you made your Instagram
3
account private?
4
A. Yes.
5
Q. Okay.
6
MR. TROUTMAN: Nicola, just for clarification
7
for the record, you haven't asked him or don't want him
8
to verify that, you know, all these postings are his on
9
these couple hundred pages, are you?
10
MS. MENALDO: Well, I asked him if this looked
11
like a fair and accurate account of his Instagram
12
account.
13
MR. TROUTMAN: And I think he identified it by
14
just looking at the first couple pages. I just -- if
15
there's something buried in here, I don't know if
16
somebody hacked him and posted something three years
17
ago, you know, if later on somehow his testimony is
18
going to be construed to approving that all these pages
19
or all these pictures were posted by him.
20
MS. MENALDO: I don't need him to verify that
21
every single post --
22
MR. TROUTMAN: Okay.
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MS. MENALDO: -- was made by him if he can
2
verify that it generally looks like --
3
MR. TROUTMAN: Okay.
4
MS. MENALDO: -- what he remembers his
5
Instagram to look like and has no reason to believe that
6
it does have inaccuracies. I fully appreciate that you
7
may not have time right now to verify every single
8
image.
9
MR. TROUTMAN: Okay. Thank you.
10
THE WITNESS: Still just looking through.
11
MR. TROUTMAN: And Rasheed, I don't mean to
12
bog us down at all.
13
THE WITNESS: No, no, no. Yeah.
14
MR. TROUTMAN: I just want to make sure that
15
if there's something --
16
THE WITNESS: Within there --
17
MR. TROUTMAN: If you'd hacked ever, if
18
Instagram or Facebook has changed the content of your
19
account --
20
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
21
MR. TROUTMAN: -- you know, without looking at
22
every page -- and I -- I hope we don't have to look at
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500-plus pages, but...
2
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I got 3,500 posts. Go
3
through it at another time. Hmm.
4
BY MR. TROUTMAN:
5
Q. And you have a Twitter account as well?
6
A. I do.
7
Q. And you have thousands of followers?
8
A. I don't know the number of followers on it.
9
Q. Would you surprised if there were over 5,000?
10
A. No. I think it's like 5,000 or like close to
11
it or something. I don't know.
12
Q. Is it -- your Twitter account public?
13
A. Currently, yes.
14
Q. And do you ever post photos of yourself or
15
anyone else on Twitter?
16
A. I have.
17
Q. We spoke previously about your LinkedIn
18
account.
19
A. Yeah.
20
Q. Yeah.
21
A. Exhibit No. 1.
22
Q. So we've talked about LinkedIn, Facebook,
5
Q. And you have a Twitter account as well?
6
A. I do.
7
Q. And you have thousands of followers?
8
A. I don't know the number of followers on it.
9
Q. Would you surprised if there were over 5,000?
10
A. No. I think it's like 5,000 or like close to
11
it or something. I don't know.
12
Q. Is it -- your Twitter account public?
13
A. Currently, yes.
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Instagram and Twitter.
2
Are there any other accounts that you use
3
frequently in social media?
4
A. No. You mentioned my Tumblr earlier, but I
5
haven't looked at that for a while. And depending on
6
what you consider as a social media platform, YouTube.
7
Q. YouTube. You post videos to YouTube?
8
A. Not frequently.
9
Q. Are they videos of yourself or...
10
A. I have included like the -- the presentation
11
that you -- that you screenshotted, I believe that is on
12
my YouTube account.
13
Q. Okay. Has the public availability of your
14
information on your social media account and through the
15
other information that is available about you online
16
harmed you in any way?
17
A. How do you -- it's about how you -- how do you
18
define "harm"?
19
Q. I'll -- I'll let you define it however you'd
20
like.
21
A. Hmm. So I'm sorry, ask me that question one
22
more time.
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Q. Has the public availability of your personal
2
information on social media accounts and in other public
3
sources on the internet harmed you?
4
A. I think there's been some folks who have
5
attempted to harm me, but not necessarily like some of
6
the personal information --
7
THE REPORTER: Some of the personal
8
information?
9
THE WITNESS: Oh, I apologize.
10
THE REPORTER: I just didn't get the last two
11
words.
12
THE WITNESS: Yeah, the personal information
13
that I've shared. So for instance, you know, sharing
14
this photo of me with orange shorts and an orange hat in
15
high school, that one hasn't come back on me yet.
16
BY MS. MENALDO:
17
Q. So is your answer to the question yes or no?
18
A. No.
19
Q. No.
20
Do you use Google Alerts?
21
A. Yes.
22
Q. What Google Alerts do you have set up?
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A. I literally was snatched off the street at
2
this. I came late to court.
3
Q. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the end of your
4
response.
5
A. Sure, yeah. So I -- simple answer, yes.
6
Q. Okay. And the arrests in 2000 and 2001 are
7
not reflected on this report, correct?
8
A. That's correct.
9
MS. MENALDO: And we can take a break now.
10
It's 5 o'clock.
11
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
12
(Recess taken.)
13
BY MS. MENALDO:
14
Q. Okay. Are you aware of any CLEAR reports with
15
your information that were provided to CLEAR customers
16
other than those provided to QRI?
17
A. I understand that there were other searches
18
that were run, but I don't know if the search ultimately
19
ends with this report.
20
Q. What do you know about the other searches that
21
were run?
22
A. That they happened.
14
Q. Okay. Are you aware of any CLEAR reports with
15
your information that were provided to CLEAR customers
16
other than those provided to QRI?
17
A. I understand that there were other searches
18
that were run, but I don't know if the search ultimately
19
ends with this report.
20
Q. What do you know about the other searches that
21
were run?
22
A. That they happened.
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Q. Do you know anything else about them?
2
A. I don't recall any specific detail.
3
Q. And did you learn about those searches before
4
or after you filed your complaint?
5
A. I believe aft- -- I mean -- but you mean the
6
searches besides QRI?
7
Q. Correct.
8
A. Yeah, I believe it was after.
9
Q. Are you aware of any CLEAR reports that have
10
been generated about any person other than you or
11
Ms. Brooks?
12
A. No.
13
Q. We were talking a little earlier about harm
14
and I -- and I want to sort of just wrap that up.
15
A. Sure.
16
Q. How would you describe how you were harmed?
17
Do you describe it as your privacy was invaded?
18
A. No.
19
MR. TROUTMAN: Objection to form.
20
You can answer.
21
BY MS. MENALDO:
22
Q. No?
1
Q. Do you know anything else about them?
2
A. I don't recall any specific detail.
3
Q. And did you learn about those searches before
4
or after you filed your complaint?
5
A. I believe aft- -- I mean -- but you mean the
6
searches besides QRI?
7
Q. Correct.
8
A. Yeah, I believe it was after.
9
Q. Are you aware of any CLEAR reports that have
10
been generated about any person other than you or
11
Ms. Brooks?
12
A. No.
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A. That's not how I describe it.
2
Q. Would you describe it as a loss of control of
3
information about you?
4
A. That's part of how I describe it.
5
Q. Would you describe it as the value of your
6
personal information decreasing?
7
A. I don't -- I don't know how I -- how I value
8
my personal information, meaning, I think, generally --
9
and this is a generalization -- value is often thought
10
of as some sort of, like, monetary value, opposed to,
11
like, I just value, like, this is information about me
12
and I want to be able to choose who I share it with.
13
Q. Do you believe that your personal information
14
has monetary value?
15
A. I believe my personal information has been
16
monetized.
17
Q. Have you ever attempted to sell your personal
18
information?
19
A. No, not that I -- not that I recall. I don't
20
think so.
21
Q. Did you lose any money as a result of the
22
allegations in your complaint?
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A. Can you rephrase the question?
2
Q. Would you describe your harm as having lost
3
money?
4
A. If CLEAR's getting money or Thomson Reuters is
5
getting money through CLEAR selling my information, and
6
I could have sold -- sold it if I had chosen to do so,
7
that's money that's not feeding my family.
8
Q. Do you think you could have sold your personal
9
information, had you chosen to do so?
10
A. I don't know how or where, but I'm sure
11
there's some sort of, I don't know, information exchange
12
I could have done that on. I wouldn't do it, though.
13
Q. Have you lost -- would you describe the harm
14
you suffered as having lost property?
15
A. Probably not. I -- just my thoughts around
16
conceptions of property.
17
Q. I'm talking about physical or real property.
18
A. I think still --
19
THE REPORTER: I still -- something --
20
THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry.
21
I know there's, like, a legal definition of
22
real property, and in urban planning that has a
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different conceptual understanding historically. So
2
that's why I'm just like I don't know how I can answer
3
that question.
4
BY MS. MENALDO:
5
Q. Okay. Do you consider your personal
6
information your property?
7
A. Yes. And my prerogative.
8
Q. Would you describe the harm you suffered as a
9
physical injury?
10
A. I don't think that's how, like, physical
11
injury's defined, so I don't know -- I don't know. That
12
sounds like a legal definition thing.
13
Q. I've given you a lot of examples of ways you
14
could describe your harm.
15
A. Yeah, yeah.
16
Q. Why don't you restate for me one more time how
17
you would describe the harm you suffered as a result of
18
the allegations made in your complaint?
19
A. Well, I appreciate it -- I appreciate, like,
20
the potential framework of how harm might be defined, of
21
like theft or property, physical harm or injury.
22
I want to say CLEAR sold my stuff and sold it
16
Q. Why don't you restate for me one more time how
17
you would describe the harm you suffered as a result of
18
the allegations made in your complaint?
19
A. Well, I appreciate it -- I appreciate, like,
20
the potential framework of how harm might be defined, of
21
like theft or property, physical harm or injury.
22
I want to say CLEAR sold my stuff and sold it
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on the data market. I don't know how inaccurate that is
2
because I don't know exactly how all of CLEAR, you know,
3
functions. It's still kind of an enigma. But the harm
4
is that Thomson Reuters has been collecting information
5
about me for however long, has gone back farther than I
6
may know because I don't know what's been produced since
7
2020, and it's making that information available to
8
whoever and I don't know who that is. I didn't say they
9
could do it. And I don't know how much my information
10
would be valued at. I feel priceless. I mentioned like
11
a zillion earlier. I don't know even know how many
12
zeros that is. But I think the harm at its core is just
13
this product being created and used to monetize my life
14
or representations of me.
15
And this information is not all public. It's
16
not even just compiling this information like you've
17
done. It's -- it seem -- looks like it's stuff that
18
they probably had to pay for, "they" meaning Thomson
19
Reuters. And then now they're packaging it to flip it.
20
It's like how people flip a house to sell. I feel like
21
my identity's being flipped to make money.
22
Q. And how does that harm you?
1
on the data market. I don't know how inaccurate that is
2
because I don't know exactly how all of CLEAR, you know,
3
functions. It's still kind of an enigma. But the harm
4
is that Thomson Reuters has been collecting information
5
about me for however long, has gone back farther than I
6
may know because I don't know what's been produced since
7
2020, and it's making that information available to
8
whoever and I don't know who that is. I didn't say they
9
could do it. And I don't know how much my information
10
would be valued at. I feel priceless. I mentioned like
11
a zillion earlier. I don't know even know how many
12
zeros that is. But I think the harm at its core is just
13
this product being created and used to monetize my life
14
or representations of me.
15
And this information is not all public. It's
16
not even just compiling this information like you've
17
done. It's -- it seem -- looks like it's stuff that
18
they probably had to pay for, "they" meaning Thomson
19
Reuters. And then now they're packaging it to flip it.
20
It's like how people flip a house to sell. I feel like
21
my identity's being flipped to make money.
22
Q. And how does that harm you?
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A. Hurts my feelings.
2
Q. Do you think that your description of the harm
3
you suffered is similar to how others would describe the
4
harm they suffered from CLEAR?
5
MR. TROUTMAN: Objection to form.
6
You can answer.
7
MS. MENALDO: I'll rephrase.
8
BY MS. MENALDO:
9
Q. Do you think everyone in California would be
10
impacted the same way that you have been impacted by the
11
inclusion of their information in CLEAR?
12
A. Yes. Now, would they describe it the same
13
way? I'd probably use unique terminology.
14
Q. Do you believe that the value of your personal
15
information has been reduced because of CLEAR?
16
A. I don't know.
17
Q. Do you believe you've lost control over the
18
ability to disseminate and sell your own data?
19
A. If I had the ability to sell, possibly. But I
20
think that CLEAR has taken control or has taken the
21
possibility of me having control over it.
22
Q. But you're not sure if you have the ability to
1
A. Hurts my feelings.
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