Veteran Entrepreneurship: From Service to Small Business Success (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, November 15, 2023)
Summary
Printed record of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship hearing of November 15, 2023, Veteran Entrepreneurship: From Service to Small Business Success, S. Hrg. 118–233, published in 2026. Chair Jeanne Shaheen and Ranking Member Joni Ernst gave the opening statements. Witnesses were Col. Tim Green, USAF (Ret), acting associate administrator of the SBA's Office of Veterans Business Development; Dr. Mike Haynie of Syracuse University's Institute for Veterans and Military Families; Lisa Shimkat, state director of America's SBDC Iowa; Chris Guerrette, owner of Lickee's & Chewy's Candies & Creamery; and Dustin Rhoades, CEO of Ability Tech. The record adds a letter dated November 14, 2023 from the National Association of Federally-Insured Credit Unions and responses to questions from Senators Booker and Risch.
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“Veteran Entrepreneurship: From Service to Small Business Success (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, November 15, 2023).”
Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/veteran-entrepreneurship-from-service-to-small-business-success-senate-bd491892a8/
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S. HRG. 118–233
VETERAN ENTREPRENEURSHIP:
FROM SERVICE TO SMALL BUSINESS SUCCESS
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
NOVEMBER 15, 2023
Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63–160 WASHINGTON : 2026
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada TED BUDD, North Carolina
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
MEREDITH WEST, Republican Staff Director
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CONTENTS
November 15, 2023
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Jeanne Shaheen, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire .......................................... 1
Joni Ernst, U.S. Senator from Iowa ....................................................................... 2
WITNESSES
Col. Tim Green, USAF (Ret), Acting Associate Administrator, Office of Vet-
erans Business Development, U.S. Small Business Administration, Wash-
ington, DC ............................................................................................................. 4
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 7
Dr. Mike Haynie, Vice Chancellor, Syracuse University, Director, Institute
for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF), Syracuse, NY .............................. 12
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 14
Ms. Lisa Shimkat, State Director, America’s SBDC Iowa, Ames, IA .................. 19
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 21
Mr. Chris Guerrette, Owner and CEO, Lickee’s & Chewy’s Candies & Cream-
ery Dover, NH ...................................................................................................... 25
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 27
Mr. Dustin Rhoades, CEO and Owner, Ability Tech, Sioux City, IA .................. 29
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 31
ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
National Association of Federally-Insured Credit Unions ...................................
Letter Dated November 14, 2023 .................................................................... 52
Senator Jeanne Shaheen .........................................................................................
Opening Statement ........................................................................................... 54
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
Col. Tim Green, USAF (Ret) ...................................................................................
Responses to questions submitted by Senators Booker and Risch ............... 57
Mr. Chris Guerette ..................................................................................................
Responses to questions submitted by Senator Booker .................................. 65
Dr. Mike Haynie ......................................................................................................
Responses to questions submitted by Senators Booker, Hirono and Risch . 67
Mr. Dustin Rhoades .................................................................................................
Responses to questions submitted by Senator Booker .................................. 72
Ms. Lisa Shimkat .....................................................................................................
Responses to questions submitted by Senator Booker .................................. 75
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VETERAN ENTREPRENEURSHIP: FROM
SERVICE TO SMALL BUSINESS SUCCESS
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2023
UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:38 p.m., in Room
428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jeanne Shaheen, chair-
man of the committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Shaheen [presiding], Cardin, Hirono,
Duckworth, Rosen, Hickenlooper, Ernst, Young, and Hawley.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHAHEEN
Chair SHAHEEN. Good afternoon. The Senate committee on Small
Business and Entrepreneurship will come to order.
I am really honored to welcome everyone today. And of course,
because it is Wednesday and we are having a hearing, we have
votes. So, we have finished the first one, so I expect members to—
Senator Hickenlooper hasn’t voted yet.
Okay. So, as you can imagine, people will come and go while they
finish this vote. Hopefully, we are only going to have one before the
hearing ends, so we should be able to hear from all of you and have
a chance for questions.
Today, the committee is going to conduct a hearing on the state
of veteran entrepreneurship and how we can work together to sup-
port our nation’s veterans and their small business goals. I want
to welcome our witnesses.
Thank you for joining us today. I am really anxious to hear about
your experiences and what you can share with us about what we
need to do to better support veterans and their small business aspi-
rations. I want to extend a special welcome to Chris Guerrette and
the folks from New Hampshire who are here. I have been to Chris’s
shop, so I know what great candy he provides.
We are going to introduce all of our presenters in just a few min-
utes, but I want to begin just by making some brief points about
veteran owned businesses and their impact on the U.S. economy.
There are approximately 1.8 million veteran owned businesses in
the United States. They produce an estimated $1.2 trillion, with a
T, in revenue.
They employ approximately 5.2 million people, and they support
over $232 billion in annual payroll. And through their military
service, veterans often have the can do approach that makes them
really good entrepreneurs.
Their discipline, tenacity, and leadership abilities may be the
reason that veterans are more likely to pursue entrepreneurship
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compared to their civilian counterparts. But of course, veterans are
not immune to the struggles that face civilian small business own-
ers. Access to capital, mentoring networks continue to be a chal-
lenge, regardless of military service.
I think there is more we can do to support our veterans, and that
is part of what this hearing is about. I am committed to working
with Ranking Member Ernst and my colleagues on the committee
to provide the support, including access to capital, counseling, tech-
nical assistance to the tens of thousands of veterans who aspire to
start their own businesses.
I have a longer statement that I will introduce for the record
without opposition and look forward to the witness testimony. And
now, I will yield to Ranking Member Ernst for her opening state-
ment.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST
Senator ERNST. Oh, thank you. And good afternoon to our wit-
nesses. Thank you very much for being here.
And thank you, Chair Shaheen. Coming out of our Veterans Day
weekend, and I hope everybody was able to celebrate that day with
their loved ones, I am grateful for the opportunity to examine how
the Small Business Administration can better serve our 1.7 veteran
owned small businesses.
As a combat veteran and a retired Lieutenant Colonel in the
Iowa Army National Guard, I want to take a moment to thank our
country’s veterans for their selfless service. I also want to recognize
the families of those who have served.
In the Senate, I focused on ensuring our veterans have access to
critical mental health services, and I am committed to holding the
VA and other agencies accountable for recent telework practices
that have created major department failures and have left calls
from our veterans unanswered.
As a Ranking Member of this committee, I am charged with en-
suring our veterans’ small businesses, especially in our rural areas,
have access to the more than $25 million in technical services and
resources provided by the SBA’s Veterans Business Development
Office. Veteran entrepreneurs are found in every segment of our
economy.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s annual business survey,
over 99 percent of all veteran owned businesses are small busi-
nesses. In 2019, my home State of Iowa had over 16,000 veteran
owned businesses. It is critical rural and Midwestern veteran
owned small businesses have a fair shot accessing SBA resources.
My bill with a fellow veteran, Senator Duckworth, to reauthorize
the SBA’s Boots to Business Program is pending Senate passage.
It also includes language that will ensure every service member
population, including the National Guard, is equally weighted
when SBA determines where to place new veteran business out-
reach centers.
In addition, I have fought to reduce fraud and stop stolen valor
in the SBA’s service Disabled Veteran Owned Small Business Con-
tracting Program by including in the National Defense Authoriza-
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tion Act a provision that encourages agencies to award more Fed-
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eral contracts to certified veteran owned small businesses, discour-
aging awards made to self-certified firms.
Veteran entrepreneurs and small business owners are an impor-
tant piece of our communities, and I am looking forward to hearing
from all of you about the challenges faced by veteran small busi-
ness owners and exploring how SBA can better meet your needs.
So, thank you, Madam Chair. It is great to be with you again
today.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you very much, Senator Ernst. And I will
now introduce our five witnesses. First is retired Colonel Timothy
Green. He is the Acting Associate Administrator of SBA’s Office of
Veterans Business Development, or OVBD.
We always love acronyms here in Washington. As Acting Asso-
ciate Administrator, Colonel Green is responsible for leading the
OVBD team. We like them because that way we can use them in-
stead of the full name afterwards.
And formulating, implementing, promoting policies and programs
that equip veterans, service members, and military spouse owned
small businesses with counseling and training, access to capital,
and contracting opportunities. Colonel Green retired from the U.S.
Air Force in June of 2012 after serving on active duty for nearly
28 years.
He holds a BBA, an MBA, and a master’s degree in National Se-
curity Strategy from the National War College. Thank you for
being here. Next, we have Dr. Michael Haynie, who is the Vice
Chancellor for Strategic Initiatives and Innovation and Founder
and Executive Director of the Institute for Veterans and Military
Families, or IVMF.
An Executive Director, Barnes Professor of Entrepreneurship at
Syracuse University, Dr. Haynie is one of the foremost experts on
veteran entrepreneurship in the U.S.. Prior to joining Syracuse
University, Dr. Haynie served as an officer in the U.S. Air Force
for 14 years.
Chris Guerrette is the owner of Lickee’s & Chewy’s Candies &
Creamery, located in Dover, New Hampshire, which is also right
next to where I live, so I know it well. He is an Air Force veteran
who grew up with a love for candy, which has only increased as
he has tried treats from around the world.
His candies and creamery store, Lickee’s & Chewy’s, is an hom-
age to an old military slang term for sweets. Senator Ernst obvi-
ously knows that—yes. [Laughter.]
Chair SHAHEEN. Within months of retiring from the Air Force
and taking a civilian consulting job with the military, the candy
bar and creamery in his hometown was for sale.
Mr. Guerrette’s wife bought the shop, added hundreds of items,
and experienced over 50 percent year over year growth in the first
four years.
Mr. Guerrette has utilized several SBA resources and products
throughout his business development and expansion, and we look
forward to hearing more about his firsthand experience.
I also want to welcome the two witnesses who have been called
by the minority and we will yield to Ranking Member Ernst for the
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introduction.
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Senator ERNST. Once again, thank you, Madam Chair. And wel-
come to Colonel Green, Dr. Haynie, and Mr. Guerrette. Thank you
very much for joining us. I will now introduce my fellow Iowans
who have joined us today.
And the first is Ms. Lisa Shimkat. And Lisa serves as the State
Director for the Iowa Small Business Development Center. SBDC
provides business counseling for entrepreneurs and small business
owners at 15 centers across the State of Iowa.
Ms. Shimkat currently serves as the Board Chair of America’s
SBDC National Association Board and has served on the Iowa Eco-
nomic Development Authority Board since 2019. Ms. Shimkat has
also served on the Securities and Exchange Commission Advisory
Committee on Small and Emerging Companies.
She has earned several awards and recognitions for her out-
standing service to Iowa small businesses. Ms. Shimkat earned her
Associates of Arts at Iowa Central Community College before going
on to earn her bachelor’s degree and MBA from the most excellent
university in the universe, Iowa State University.
So, thank you very much for joining us, Lisa. Next, I will intro-
duce Mr. Dustin Rhoades, and Dustin is the Founder and Owner
of Ability Tech, which creates custom adaptive technology for indi-
viduals with disabilities. He founded Ability Tech after creating a
device enabling his son to play baseball.
And I first met Dustin and his son a number of months ago up
in Northwest Iowa, where I actually was able to play baseball. I
was catching a baseball thrown by his son with this device that he
created. It was just a truly wonderful evening, and Dustin, I am
so glad to have you here.
So, Dustin also leads the Ability Tech Foundation, a nonprofit or-
ganization supporting families and caretakers of individuals with
disabilities. A veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation
Enduring Freedom, Mr. Rhoades served four years in the United
States Marine Corps. He earned a degree in Computer Science and
Cybersecurity Engineering from Colorado Technical University.
Thank you to both of you for making the trip to Washington,
D.C. to share with this committee how we can better support our
veteran entrepreneurs and business owners in Iowa, as well as
across the country. So, I yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you for
convening this committee. I appreciate it.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you very much, Senator Ernst. Now we
will turn to our witnesses. We ask each of you to try and keep your
testimony within five minutes.
If you have longer that you would like to submit for the record,
we would be happy to take those as well. And, Colonel Green, we
are going to begin with you and go straight down the line.
STATEMENT OF COL. TIM GREEN, USAF (RET), ACTING ASSO-
CIATE ADMINISTRATOR, OFFICE OF VETERANS BUSINESS
DEVELOPMENT, U.S. SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION,
WASHINGTON, D.C.
Colonel GREEN. Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, mem-
bers of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify
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today on SBA’s efforts to empower veterans, service members, Na-
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tional Guard and Reserve members, and military spouses with the
tools to start, grow, and build resilience small businesses.
We are grateful for this committee’s continued support of SBA
programs that provide training and counseling, access to capital,
and Federal contracting opportunities to our nation’s heroes and
job creators. In 2019, I joined the SBA as a Deputy Associate Ad-
ministrator in the Office of Veterans Business Development.
Prior to SBA, I worked at the Department of Labor in their Vet-
erans Employment Training Service, where we focused on military
spouse and veteran employment issues. I retired from the Air Force
in 2012 after serving active duty for about 28 years.
SBA is dedicated to serving and highlighting the impact of Amer-
ica’s nearly 2 million veteran owned small businesses.
To honor them, we recently celebrated our 10th anniversary, Na-
tional Veterans Small Business Week, where we hosted about 250
events across the nation. These events highlighted and empowered
veteran and military spouse business owners in their local commu-
nities and connected them with local SBA resources.
Within our office, veteran business outreach centers, or VBOC,
are the cornerstone of our service delivery model. Last year, VBOC
served over 55,000 clients, and thanks to the support of this com-
mittee, our network has expanded from 22 to now 28 VBOCs. SBA
is also charged with assisting transitioning service members as
they prepare to leave military service.
SBA teaches the Boots to Business Program, which is an intro-
duction to entrepreneurship, as part of the Department of Defense
Transition Assistance Program. We teach it at 195 installations
worldwide.
Last year, we had over 21,000 individuals attending to Boots to
Business classes. And since that program was established in 2013,
with the help of IVMF, we have trained over 196,000 service mem-
bers, veterans, Guard and Reserve members, and military spouses.
We also have a version of Boots to Business called the Reboot,
which is taught to veterans, and Guard and Reserve members that
maybe have already separated in their local communities.
And we also recently launched a military spouse Pathway to
Business Training Program to help military spouses looking to
start their entrepreneurial journey. SBA facilitates access to capital
for veterans and small businesses through three loan programs, the
7(a), 504 micro loans.
And thanks to this committee, the SBA is able to waive the 7(a)
express loan upfront guarantee fee for veteran and military spouse
owned small businesses. SBA also helps veteran firms gain access
to contracting opportunities.
In Fiscal Year 2022, the Federal Government awarded 4.6 per-
cent of its prime contracts to service disabled veterans owned small
businesses, exceeding the 3 percent goal. In January, we imple-
mented the Veterans Small Business Certification Program di-
rected by Congress in the National Defense Authorization Act,
transferred the responsibility from the Department of Veterans Af-
fairs to SBA.
SBA Administrator Guzman refers to VetCert as the gold stand-
ard for veterans certification programs. We now have a streamlined
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process that makes it easier to apply and get your certification, and
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it is just not easier, it is faster. To date, we have certified well over
8,500 new veteran owned and service disabled, veteran owned
small businesses.
To ensure we are effectively serving veterans and small—small
business community, we convened two Federal advisory commit-
tees, both of them looking at how we can improve services for our
veteran clients.
I want to thank you today for the opportunity to testify and high-
light our mission in SBA’s Office of Veterans Business Develop-
ment and our continuing efforts to empower veterans, service mem-
bers, National Guard, Reserve members, military spouses.
We want to give them the tools to start, grow, and build resilient
small businesses. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Colonel Green follows.]
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Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you, Colonel Green. Dr. Haynie.
STATEMENT OF MIKE HAYNIE, VICE CHANCELLOR, SYRACUSE
UNIVERSITY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND
MILITARY FAMILIES (IVMF), SYRACUSE, NEW YORK
Dr. HAYNIE. Chairwoman Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst,
members of committee, thank you very much for the opportunity
to be here today. I have worked to advance the cause of military
spouse and veteran home business ownership for now close to 20
years.
And over that period, I deeply appreciated this committee’s com-
mitment to supporting entrepreneurial opportunity for our service
members, our veterans, and our military families. Your past ac-
tions have directly served to empower those who have served to
meaningfully leverage business ownership as a strategy to success-
fully transition from military to civilian life.
And as an example, I would like to commend Chairwoman
Shaheen’s bill, the Heroes Business Opportunity Act of 2023. Ac-
cess to capital is consistently year over year the top barrier to ven-
ture creation and growth that is identified by both research and by
veterans directly.
And I think this bill is positioned to enhance access to capital,
and both growth and startup capital by waiving the SBA guarantee
fee for 7(a) loans made to veteran small business businesses.
It is a commendable step, and I think if may law, will have an
enduring impact on the community that I serve. It is important
context, I think, for any discussion about veteran business owner-
ship to acknowledge the challenges associated with navigating that
transition from military to civilian life.
And given that challenge, research also clearly demonstrates that
multiple pathways to post service jobs and careers are critically im-
portant for our transitioning service members. And for a great
many veterans driven by an entrepreneurial spirit that I think is
cultivated through military service, the path they choose as busi-
ness ownership.
And demand for business ownership training and resources in
this community is strong and is increasing. You know, you heard
Tim mentioned, you know, my number was 194,000, but I just
learned 196,000 transitioning service members, veterans, and
spouses now through the Boots to Business Program, and that is
tremendous.
And while the SBA does stand at the forefront of our public sec-
tor efforts to empower veteran entrepreneurs through funding pro-
grams, mentorship opportunities, it is also true that the SBA can’t
do this alone.
I think public, private partnerships really have evolved to be-
come central to serving veterans via what is a proactive and really
needs driven ecosystem to ensure that the tailored solutions to the
many and diverse challenges that transitioning service members
and veterans face in the pursuit of entrepreneur opportunity are
addressed.
And, you know, as an example, the organization that I am here
to represent today, the D’Aniello Institute for Veterans and Mili-
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tary Families at Syracuse University, we have been a longtime and
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close partner to the SBA and currently operate a portfolio of busi-
ness ownership initiatives that include 11 different national train-
ing programs and 3 tailored information hubs, each of those de-
signed to meet veteran entrepreneurs where they are in the ven-
ture creation and growth lifecycle, and all offered at no cost to vet-
erans and military families.
And like for the SBA, demand for these training opportunities
and navigation services is strong and continues to grow.
Over the past decade, the Institute for Veterans and Military
Families has provided entrepreneurship training to just over
70,000 transitioning service members, veterans, and spouses, and
just over 35,000 of that community have leverage the navigation
services that we offered—that we offer to help them identify re-
source partners in their own communities to get them to help they
need when they need it.
You know, importantly, I am an academic and I would be remiss
if I didn’t mention that we also each year conduct a national survey
of military affiliated entrepreneurs, which is the largest data collec-
tion outside of Government of the veteran business ownership com-
munity. And that research really does help us identify opportuni-
ties to do better.
And I think one of those, back to this issue of capital access,
there is an opportunity for us to do more and better. If you look
at our findings, what we realize is veteran military connected en-
trepreneurs are about 3.5 times more likely to encounter access to
capital barriers than their non-veteran counterparts pursuing busi-
ness ownership.
So, on this front, we do need to do more. And I think hopefully
our discussion will tease out some of those opportunities. I will
close just very quickly by stating something that I think everyone
in this room recognizes. The value proposition for doing this work
is very, very high. Chairwoman Shaheen, you mentioned the eco-
nomic contribution that this community makes in terms of sales,
and revenue, and employees.
I think there is also this idea of this community contributing now
that they have taken the uniform off to the economic freedom of
this country is clear and compelling, and it serves the values of citi-
zenship that really are the underpinnings of our all-volunteer mili-
tary. With that, I will close.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Haynie follows.]
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Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you. Very well said. Ms. Shimkat.
STATEMENT OF LISA SHIMKAT, STATE DIRECTOR,
AMERICA’S SBDC IOWA, AMES, IOWA
Ms. SHIMKAT. Chairwoman Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst,
and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for this
opportunity to testify today on the topic of veteran entrepreneur-
ship.
I want to speak to the opportunities and the challenges faced by
veterans when starting their own business, particularly in Iowa,
the Midwest. As you already know about America’s Small Business
Development centers, we are continually trying to work with each
of our 15 regional centers, and we are an outreach program of Iowa
State University, Ivy College of Business, and the Office of Eco-
nomic Development and Industry Relations.
The State of Iowa is committed to serving and empowering vet-
erans in their post-military career pursuits. We work closely with
Home Base Iowa, HBI, to enhance employment opportunities for
veterans, service members, and their spouses. The HBI program
has made significant strides in assisting veterans.
The collaboration spans 29 certified higher academic military
partners, the Champs Program, 129 designated communities, and
over 2,000 HBI businesses statewide. One of the programs to assist
veterans that we have started is the annual Iowa Veterans Entre-
preneurship Conference.
These are commendable and successful initiatives. They are criti-
cally important as veterans encounter unique challenges when at-
tempting to transition into entrepreneurship. There is certainly
more work that needs to be done, though. Another challenge for
veterans is a lack of adequate resources.
It is imperative to understand and to address the resource dis-
parities faced by veterans in rural areas. The SBA data reveals a
shortage of resources impacting the ability of veterans to access es-
sential support for their entrepreneurial endeavors. Veterans who
live in rural areas often lack access to resources, broadband chal-
lenges, etcetera.
While the vitality of rural communities is a priority, serving
those rural areas costs more due to travel and time. Increased
funding for programs performing significant rural outreach will
translate to expanded coverage in rural areas.
But I want to also note, sometimes it is not always more money,
but it is about encouraging different Federal agencies to work to-
gether and utilize the existing resources on the ground to extend
their own efforts at minimal cost to the taxpayers.
Veteran businesses employ more than 70,000 people and gen-
erate over $3 billion in annual sales in Iowa alone. Iowa’s thriving
veteran owned businesses underscore the resilience of veterans who
pursue entrepreneurial ventures. Despite the challenges, the suc-
cess rate of veteran owned businesses demonstrates the significant
contributions they make to economic growth and impact.
We are committed to maintaining this positive trajectory and in-
creasing the number of successes for our veteran entrepreneurs. To
do so, we do offer several considerations. Access to comprehensive
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Mirroring the U.S. Army Soldier for Life Initiative. Occupational
licensure reciprocity. Seek DOL approval to serve additional popu-
lations through the Jobs for Veterans State Grant Program. Early
access to entrepreneurship resources to get in front of servicemen
and women before they are on their way back home—to get in front
of them so we can talk about those resources earlier.
Streamline information organization. And the biggest one that I
wanted to point out specifically today was streamlining SBA pro-
grams and leveraging the SBDC network that is already on the
ground and has been a proven resource for small businesses.
To maximize the impact of SBA programs and reduce duplication
of services, there is a critical need for closer alignment and collabo-
ration among the initiatives. The SBDC network, with its extensive
reach and expertise, can serve as a robust base for various re-
sources and programs. Leverage the strength that is there.
Now, these suggestions aim to enhance the efficiency of existing
programs and partners. We partner with the APEX Program,
which is a DOD initiative that has been crucial for the success, and
it is about working together with those partners to help those en-
trepreneurs and see them thrive more quickly and have a stronger
business moving forward.
Ultimately, we want to create a more favorable environment for
veteran owned businesses to thrive. While Iowa and other States
have made substantial strides in supporting veteran entrepreneurs,
challenges do still persist, exacerbated by resource disparities.
By addressing these challenges, we can create an environment
where more veterans thrive as successful entrepreneurs. Thank
you for the opportunity today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Shimkat follows.]
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25
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you very much. Mr. Guerrette.
STATEMENT OF CHRIS GUERRETTE, OWNER AND CEO,
LICKEE’S & CHEWY’S CANDIES & CREAMERY, DOVER, NEW
HAMPSHIRE
Mr. GUERRETTE. Chairwoman Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst,
committee members, thank you for inviting me to testify today. It
is an honor to provide testimony on veteran entrepreneurship and
the Small Business Administration’s role in assisting veteran small
business owners.
I am a retired Air Force officer and the owner and creator of
Lickee’s & Chewy’s Candies & Creamery in Dover, New Hamp-
shire. It is a 5,000 square foot candy, ice cream, and chocolate shop
that hosts an average of 40,000 guests per year, employs 20 people,
6 of which I am proud to say are full time, and we currently are
expanding into an additional 5,000 square feet of space to build a
chocolate factory and warehouse as well.
None of this would have been possible without the support of the
SBA, the Small Business Development Center, my mentor, and the
programs that support veteran small business owners such as the
Boots to Business Program.
My journey began shortly after I retired from the Air Force in
2014, when a small shop in the town I lived in came up for sale.
Seeing as I love candy and because I always wanted to work for
myself, I decided to meet with the current owner just to see if there
was any reason not to buy the shop.
Needless to say, it was an easy choice, and in late 2014, my wife
and I took ownership of a small 500 square foot candy shop. At the
time, I was also working full time as a GS–13 Government em-
ployee at Hanscom Air Force Base.
So, my wife ran the shop during the day, and at night I would
come in and place orders, make chocolate, and work till midnight
taking care of things and putting out new displays. Long story
short, our sales grew and grew, and in September of 2016, I was
able to leave my Government job, which, you know, was a pretty
big surprise to everybody I worked with, and go full time candy,
as I like to call it, with grand plans to build a new, much larger
store.
My plan was to expand and build a new 5,000 square foot shop
that would become a destination. And thankfully, I was working
with an advisor from the New Hampshire’s SBA Small Business
Development Center, and we worked for months on the business
plan, funding options, and business design.
He helped to match me with banks in the area, apply for and se-
cure SBA loans to provide the capital necessary to get things going
that I needed to borrow. It turns out I borrowed about $250,000 for
construction expenses, equipment purchases, and inventory. Now,
granted, the 250,000 was a best guess-estimate, and as you can
imagine, there are often several unexpected expenses that come up
during the early stages of starting and growing a business, and our
actual startup costs ended up being closer to $350,000.
We paid for that with our own cash and credit, and those extra
expenses included construction costs, higher equipment costs, and
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several other items, including an SBA loan fee. It can be frus-
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26
trating and challenging to pay for fees and expenses for items that
do not directly result in creating profits for a small business when
they are starting.
It is one thing to pay for tangible items such as equipment or
construction that can lead directly to a result in increased business,
or at least in creating smoother business operations. But those fees
tend to deplete the capital and put a new business further behind
the eight ball, or further in the hole, before they even open their
front door.
Thankfully, our business took off and we were able to pay back
our loans and continue to grow. As a matter of fact, we have bor-
rowed other amounts from the SBA, another $55,000 a couple of
years ago to purchase more equipment, and that was done using
the SBA Express loan, where thankfully the fee was waived be-
cause cash flow is tight.
That was right in the middle of the COVID pandemic. The fre-
quent and multiple unexplained expenses when starting or growing
a business can be high and can definitely create barriers to starting
a business or even create a financial hardship under which a new
business will not succeed.
And in the event that is a veteran with perhaps 4, 6, or maybe
10 years of service who is relying on their new business to be suc-
cessful in order to make ends meet, then they will need all the help
they can get.
And I believe it is legislation such as the Heroes Business Oppor-
tunity Act that will waive the SBA guarantee fee for loans made
to veterans, that creates another tool to make it easier for veteran
owned businesses to access capital, and it will quietly but power-
fully help veteran owned small businesses succeed. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Guerrette follows.]
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29
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you very much. Mr. Rhoades.
STATEMENT OF DUSTIN RHOADES, CEO AND OWNER, ABILITY
TECH, SIOUX CITY, IOWA
Mr. RHOADES. Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and
members of the committee good afternoon and thank you for the
opportunity to testify today about the challenges and opportunities
facing veteran owned small businesses.
With profound gratitude, I stand before you as the CEO of Abil-
ity Tech, a company committed to revolutionizing accessibility
through innovative technology solutions. Our journey is deeply per-
sonal and began with my son, who was born missing 97 percent of
his brain.
In 2019, I created a piece of adaptive technology to enable him
to play baseball. That inspired us to start Ability Tech and created
adaptable technology for individuals from all walks of life. This,
coupled with a sincere aspiration to impact the lives of individuals
with disabilities, is what got us here today.
On our mission at Ability Tech is both simple and profound, to
serve each unique individual, to support the disabled community,
and importantly, to alleviate the financial burdens faced by fami-
lies dealing with disabilities. We understand that fixed income lim-
its that many of these families confront.
We believe that families and caregivers shouldn’t have to choose
between medical treatments, bills, therapies, or quality of life in-
ventions that could transform their world. At Ability Tech, we do
our best to build affordable, adaptive tech, and work with families
on a budget to ensure they can get the technology that they need.
Pursuing entrepreneurship as a veteran has its unique challenges.
To transition from military service to the unpredictable nature of
business world was a constant challenge. During the early days of
our venture, access to capital emerged as a hurdle, compounded by
our rural location and our niche nature of the adaptive technology
industry.
Convincing traditional lenders of the societal impact of our busi-
ness model became a mission in itself. Given the smaller percent-
age of the population composing our demographic, our journey has
been enriched by local resources, such as the Chamber of Com-
merce, the Small Business Development Centers, and the Iowa
State University Pappajohn Center for Entrepreneurship.
These entities have played a pivotal role in our growth, providing
essential guidance, networking opportunities, and resources. Yet
challenges persist, particularly in accessing capital and navigating
the intricate landscape of Government contracting. Government
contracting emerged as a pivotal part of our growth strategy.
Events like Senator Ernst’s Entrepreneur Expo in Iowa and Iowa
State University Pappajohn Center for Entrepreneurship, Iowa
Veterans Entrepreneurship Conference, opened our eyes to the pos-
sibilities within the Government contracting. However, the bureau-
cratic landscape, particularly dealing with the language and the
time commitment involved, demanded a steep learning curve.
We commend the efforts made to ensure that the taxpayer funds
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30
ther simplification and support, especially for smaller businesses.
The current economic inflation has impacted our business.
Rising costs across the board have led us to adapt our strategies
to navigate these economic challenges. Our operational costs, en-
compassing everything from raw materials to utilities, have in-
creased and directly impacted our bottom line, prompting a review
of our budgeting and expenditure strategies.
We have had to explore cost effective alternatives without com-
promising the quality of our products or our services. Our engage-
ment with the Small Business Development Center has been posi-
tive, facilitated by strong relationship with our local SBDC direc-
tor. However, we emphasize the need for more local tailored re-
sources for veteran owned businesses.
Initiatives like the Pappajohn Center Veteran Entrepreneurship
Conference have started addressing this gap, but at a State level,
but require further support and expansion. Our journey has been
enriched by the guidance and mentorship of other small business
owners who have walked a similar path.
Entities like the Siouxland Chamber of Commerce has played a
pivotal role in holding networking events and local business forms,
fostering connections within the business community.
Again, Senator Ernst’s Entrepreneurship Expo and the
Pappajohn Center Veterans Entrepreneurship Conference provided
invaluable opportunities for engagement, sharing experiences, and
receiving advice.
However, the ongoing challenges lies in finding seasoned mentors
who are more experienced or established business leaders who un-
derstand the need for support. Looking ahead, our biggest priority
is access to funding.
As an early stage small business operating out of our garage,
still the demand for our products outpace our capacity. In conclu-
sion, I urge the State—or the State—the Senate committee on
Small Businesses and Entrepreneurship to explore opportunities
for better supporting veteran entrepreneurs.
Strengthening small business, particularly those led by veterans,
require multiple approach, streamlined communication, tailored
training programs, flexible funding options. I hope, as we collec-
tively work together towards these goals, we pave the way for more
vibrant and resilient entrepreneurial landscape.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rhoades follows.]
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34
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you all very much for your very compel-
ling testimony. We will now have a round of five-minute questions
each. And Mr. Guerrette, I am going to start with you, since you
are from New Hampshire.
And you and Dr. Haynie did such a nice job of providing a com-
mercial on my legislation, the Heroes Business Opportunity Act. I
have to ask you about that.
You talked a little bit about this in your testimony, but talk
about why waiving the fees up front for 7(a) loans are really impor-
tant for entrepreneurs just starting out?
Mr. GUERRETTE. Yes. When I started the company, it was a kind
of a dream, and it was very much amounting to we are just going
to make it happen.
But at the same time, I did have kids still in high school and we
had to consider the fact that, you know, they were going to be
things to pay for down the road like college, and we didn’t know
how that was going to work out.
So, when I had to pay for fees and things that I just didn’t even
know existed—I will be honest, I didn’t know until a couple of
weeks ago when I did a little bit of research and found out I had
actually paid those fees.
You know, that is just more capital that went away. That fee was
almost $3,000. And when you are already borrowing $250,000 on
a hope or a dream, then that extra cost really made it, you know,
risky because, like I said, those are fees that are just being paid
to someone. They are not paying for a piece of equipment or inven-
tory that I can sell.
And in my business, when I am selling something that is $2, I
am keeping about $0.15 out of it. So, it is really tough to make up
that $3,000. That is a lot of things that have to be sold to make
up that—you know, that profit difference there.
So, I think if they were waived, especially if you are a smaller
company—and I would like to focus on the fact that a lot of vet-
erans owned businesses are folks that are not retired. I had the
lux—I say the luxury, you know, but I did do 25 years of military
service, of being somebody who had a retirement to back up my
personal expenses and use a little extra capital if necessary.
But if you are coming out of four, six years, you don’t have an
income and you are going to jump into a business, the last thing
you need is to have another $3,000 bill or $2,000 bill that doesn’t
go directly to getting that business off the ground.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you. We will use that endorsement as we
are moving the legislation. Colonel Green, virtually everybody who
has spoken has talked about the need to be aware of what re-
sources are available if they are thinking about starting a business.
You talked about the 100—and I think 196,000 people who had
been through the Boots to Business Program. Can you talk about
what percentage of people that is who were eligible for the pro-
gram? And how do we get the word out to more veterans about
what is available to them?
Colonel GREEN. Chair Shaheen, that is a great question. Thank
you very much for the opportunity. So, in our office, we want to
make sure that all of our customers are aware and make informed
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So, what really, we really try to do is make sure there is an
awareness of programs available, and—first of all, and then acces-
sibility of those programs, whether it be virtual or in person, and
then the ability to navigate those resources.
And the resources we are talking about, we are part of a net-
work, an ecosystem I could say, which includes small business de-
velopment centers, our veteran business outreach centers, women
business centers, and SCORE chapters. That is just part of the
SBA connected ecosystem.
We also have organizations like the Institute for Veteran and
Military Families that actually helped us develop the Boots to
Business curriculum back in 2013. Now, the Boots to Business Pro-
gram for active duty is pretty well laid out in the Department of
Defense’s Transition Assistance Program.
They are very aware of it as they go through. You know, it is an
optional, two-day course, but they are supposed to be providing
them opportunity to take that. The Reboot Program, where we
teach in the communities, that is where we really need the help of
our SBDCs, because we only have 28 VBOCs.
We need help of our resource partners to get the word out of
those opportunities of the, you know, taking that Boots to Business
Reboot. And then the military spouses, that Pathway to Business
Program I mentioned, that is a program that was rewritten to
focus—military spouses weren’t really feeling like Boots to Busi-
ness was for them, the naming convention, the graphics.
So, we redesigned that course to make it feel more military
spouse centric. And then, we just started teaching those classes in
August. And now, we have probably had 10 or 12 classes so far
with a few hundred military spouses signing up.
So, we are looking to slow rollout, but we are reaching out for
every opportunity to get the word out.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you. I know the timer says I have more
time, but I think I got additional time. So, I am going to stop and
turn it over to Senator—[technical problems].
Senator ERNST. Thank you, Madam Chair. And a big thanks to
all of our witnesses that are here today. We really appreciate your
testimony.
Mr. Rhoades, we will go ahead and start with you. Thanks for
joining us again. I really appreciate your testimony and thanks for
sharing your experience with Federal contracting as well. And you
mentioned a couple of times how the Entrepreneurship Expo and
the Pappajohn Center’s Veterans Entrepreneurship Conference
were helpful.
But what are the main deterrents or barriers to entry facing
small businesses seeking to break into Federal contracting, in your
experience?
Mr. RHOADES. Ranking Member Ernst, thank you for that ques-
tion. From my experience, it is the process to get started is very—
for small businesses, our biggest resources is our time.
And when you have to sit there and understand the language,
and what is needed, and gather those resources to apply, it is very
hard on our time. And that is where we have benefited a little bit
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We had somebody that was able to eventually sit down with us
and walk us through that process. But to be honest, if I did not
have that person, I believe that I would have probably given up on
the Government contracting side at that time. So, I think that is
the biggest barrier.
And then the other one is, once you get into it, is the bidding
process. It is very unfamiliar what happens next, what the steps
are to do next. And if you are awarded a contract, where to go from
there and things like that.
So clear direction or somebody to kind of—to point you in the
right direction.
Senator ERNST. That is really good. And it is probably not sur-
prising to you that I have maybe heard those same comments be-
fore, so. And I know I saw Colonel Green nodding his head as well.
And Tim, if you have additional comments that might build upon
what Dustin had shared as well.
Colonel GREEN. Thank you, Ranking Member Ernst, and thank
you for your service. Federal contracting is really, you know, chal-
lenging, I can say. One of the things that were written up in Insti-
tute for Veterans and Military families report was the challenge
with certification.
We took that one ahead on. We simplified the VetCert Program
to make it easier, faster. So that is one small piece. The other thing
is training. We do have a little bit of a cumbersome. It is a learning
curve that, you know, is a challenge.
And we do provide some funding to the Veteran Institute for Pro-
curement. And Mr. Cardin, or Senator Cardin is very aware of this
program, but they do have training for those that are looking to,
you know—existing businesses that are looking to grow into Fed-
eral contracting, increase their businesses.
And I know after the first year of their program, they are looking
at about a 50 percent—56 percent growth after one year in the Vet-
erans Institute for Procurement. So, I think that program has been
very successful for us, and we have been investing in promoting
that program across the country, and I know they have had
attendees from every State participate in that.
Senator ERNST. Great, great. No, thank you. We need more of
that. And for Ms. Shimkat as well, thanks again for being with us.
And in your testimony, you had highlighted the resource dispari-
ties impacting veterans, small business owners, and entrepreneurs
in Iowa and across the Midwest. So, two part question.
What can SBA do to better provide outreach and support our vet-
erans? And would you be supportive of enabling SBDCs to host vet-
erans business outreach centers? Because you mentioned the shar-
ing of capabilities.
Ms. SHIMKAT. So, let me answer the second part first. Having an
SBDC host VBOC, absolutely. And for many reasons, we spend a
lot of money on databases, for example, to be able to get informa-
tion.
So, when somebody does start their business, we are minimizing
that risk. We are helping them figure out, is there a market? Is
there somebody that is going to buy it after my family and friends
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Will there be somebody else? And that is what—we already have
access to those databases. We are already paying for it. And so, to
be able to start right there, that is saving some money on that as-
pect. Another one is we are already out in the communities. And
for anyone who has lived in a rural area or from a real estate, it
is trust.
And in the rural areas, having somebody, that local person, be-
cause you could have like a VBOC where they come in, they work
with them, and then they go back to where they are housed. But
the SBDC and other resource partners are living in that commu-
nity, and that is crucial.
For SBA, for better outreach, a couple of things that we could
look at is, and Colonel Green, retired Colonel Green spoke earlier,
and I offered to speak with him after this so we could talk about
let’s pull some of these resources together instead of having so
many programs in silos. We do this and here is our metrics. Guess
what? We are doing the same thing.
Now, there are many entrepreneurs out there that we need to
still get to. We can’t do it all in small business development cen-
ters. They can’t do it all as VBOCs. But working together, we can
have a larger impact and really reach more of those. So, I hope
that answers your question.
Senator ERNST. It does. Thanks so much, and I yield back. Thank
you.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you. Senator Cardin.
Senator CARDIN. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me thank all five
of our witnesses. Ms. Shimkat, I am going to follow up on the
SBDC and the VBOC.
Maryland is one of the newer veterans business outreach centers,
and it is co-located at College Park where the SBDC is located and
thank goodness they were co-located because they needed—the new
VBOC needed help and the SBDC was there to help.
And is that type of shared resources that I think give us the best
value for the dollars, so I just really want to underscore that. Colo-
nel Green I want to follow up on the point that you said. I am con-
cerned that we have under-resourced our services to our veterans.
28 centers in the nation to me is not enough, just—with the num-
ber of veterans we have, the geographies of our nation, we need
more resources.
So, one of my concerns is how do we get more resources into the
program? And thank you for mentioning the Veterans Institute for
Procurement. For the members of our committee, this was a pro-
gram started in maybe 15 years ago by the Montgomery County,
Maryland Chamber of Commerce. No public funds, private funds.
And this is a Montgomery County local chamber, they set up an
institute to help veterans with procurement and accepted veterans
throughout the entire country. So, it was a commitment to give
back to the community for those who have served our nation.
And it was a very successful model, and I thank the SBA for
picking it up, and becoming a partner, and providing some help.
And in this past cycle, Senator Van Hollen and I—it is helpful to
have the chairman of the subcommittee that has the SBA.
With Senator Van Hollen, we were able to get some help to the
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38
pacity as a result of it, and the waiting lists are there, the needs
are there.
So, I guess my question to you is, how do we get more resources
into these programs? Don’t throw back on me you need more
money. But how do we—we need to do a more effective job. You
talked about how you handle certification in a more efficient way.
In the women’s business center legislation that I authored, we
set up standards to improve quality through the process. Do we
need to do that with the VBOCs also? Or how do we expand the
capacity of the veterans centers to help our veteran community?
Colonel GREEN. Senator Cardin, that is a great question. We are,
you know, we are extremely proud of the work that the V–B-O–Cs,
or the VBOCs, are doing across the country, but there are 28 of
them.
If I had 54 of them, it would take a little pressure off, obviously.
But they—I think the key to that is really collaboration and part-
nerships. Many of the veteran business outreach centers have to
serve multiple States, so we have to figure out technology solutions
to make sure we are reaching our customers, especially our rural
customers, underserved.
But I think we do that through partnerships, leveraging the re-
sources of the Small Business Development Center. We have 68
district offices, and within those district offices at SBA, we have
veteran business development officers that coordinate directly with
our veteran business outreach staff.
So, we leverage them, as well as other partners. We provide some
grant funding. Again, the Institute for Veteran and Military Fami-
lies has the entrepreneurial boot camp for veterans. We have—they
help us teach our Boots to Business overseas. So, collaboration,
partnership is crucial. We do have a really strong relationship with
the American Legion.
We have a working agreement with them. The American Legion
helps us reach some of the rural communities, because if you drive
around any small town, you will see an American Legion post.
We partner with VFW, Disabled American Vets, anybody that
will help us get the word out. So, we try to leverage other organiza-
tions and—so we can get the word out about our VBOC Program.
Senator CARDIN. And I think you are doing a very effective job
with the resources that you have. But there are underserved com-
munities that it is very difficult to reach if they don’t have a part-
ner that you can partner with.
It makes it challenging for those communities, for veterans in
those communities to get the services they need. I think we need
to work together to figure out how we can fill up those gaps. Thank
you, Madam Chair.
Chair Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Cardin. Senator Hirono.
Senator HIRONO. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all for
testifying. Colonel Green, I am glad that you noted how important
it is to leverage the resources of the SBA and partner with a lot
of other community resources, especially probably in some of the
rural areas where access to the kind of support that a veteran
needs to start his or her own business might be more challenging.
So, that is a good thing. I did want to ask you. Recently, the
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West Maui town of Lahaina burned to the ground, and I know that
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there were veterans there. The SBA administrator, Guzman, who
came very shortly after the horrendous wildfire there, said that
there were about 700 or so small businesses registered, I suppose,
there that she was aware of.
Some of them had to be veteran owned. Do you—after disasters
like that, is there a way that SBA tracks the veterans in that area
who may have small businesses?
Colonel GREEN. Senator, that is a great question. We have
been—at SBA, we have been spending a lot of time focused on the
tragedy that took place in Hawaii.
We do have a veteran business outreach center in Honolulu, and
they have an extensive database that—they actually know all the
businesses that they have worked with, all the business that they
currently work with, and they are sharing that information
through—I guess they call it a BRAC, a disaster recovery assist-
ance center.
And so, there is participation there. SBA, they have taken a
whole of SBA approach. All of our offices meet on a regular basis.
We meet daily for a while now, on a weekly basis, to figure out how
we can really support those businesses as they recover from the
tragedy that took place.
Senator HIRONO. And I think that as we are experiencing more
of these kinds of natural disasters, and wildfires, and hurricanes,
there are a lot of these kinds of events that happen. That there are
probably lessons learned and ways that SBA can, you know, make
sure that you know which businesses are veteran owned, and to
have that in your database before a horrendous event like the Maui
wildfires occur.
And so, good. We noted that you have recently streamlined your
business certification process. Can you just give me an example of
something that was more complicated than necessary and how you
streamlined that? And what—I would like to hear a description of
what you consider streamlining.
Colonel GREEN. Yes. So, they did reduce the amount of forms you
had to fill out. And what is really exciting is under the Adminis-
trator, she has gone with my SBA program, which includes a loan
portal, as well as our certification program so far, and she is going
to add more.
So, as you go through other certification programs within SBA,
you will be able to use the same information. You won’t have to fill
it out each time you go through. Recently, we had a roundtable of
business owners hosted by the SBA Administrator, and we talked
about the certification program.
We went around and around. And the lesson they learned that
they told us they learned from that was the communication and the
marketing and the information provided to all the business owners
was outstanding.
So, they hadn’t seen that before in a lot of rollouts for Federal
Government, and they were able to—they knew what was going on
with the certification. They knew when it was going to take place
and when they had to recertify, so.
Senator HIRONO. For any of the panelists, are there some unique
differences when you are dealing with a woman veteran versus a
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male veteran? Are there any unique elements that, for example,
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women veterans need? And are you meeting those needs? Anybody?
Yes, Ms. Shimkat.
Ms. SHIMKAT. Thank you for that question. The answer is it de-
pends, truthfully. There could be additional needs when it comes
to transportation, childcare. We could have different needs when it
comes to just the form of communication as well.
And the biggest thing that we do is focus on that communication,
figure out what is the root of what we need to work on first, put
a clear plan together, and then step by step working with veterans
of, you know, both genders so that we can figure out what do you
need.
Because sometimes coming into a conversation, here is what I
think I need, but in actuality, this is where we need to be. And I
think for us, having veterans on our staff is step number one. And
that has been huge for us to really take a step forward in the right
direction.
Senator HIRONO. And when you noted that, I think that for
women, since childcare still falls mainly on the woman, to have
specific ways that you are going to assist female veteran with
childcare. I just want to mention, Mr. Guerrette, I really love hear-
ing your candy story. My best to you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair SHAHEEN. Yes. Imagine Willy Wonka and you have got
Lickee’s & Chewy’s. Senator Hickenlooper was here earlier, so we
will go to him next.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. I am ready. Thank you all for being
here. Madam Chair, thank you for calling this. And, Chris, why
don’t we start with you? When I opened my first business, which
was a restaurant that brews its own beer.
I was a geologist, had been kicked to the curb. We had to explain
our business to banks that had never seen it before. And as is often
the case with a good idea for—an entrepreneur might have, it is
hard to put just in words what something—something people
haven’t experienced yet.
And that is why it is a good economic opportunity because no one
else is doing it. I think in a funny way, veterans face a similar
challenge in communicating to banks how their past military expe-
rience is going to translate to a successful business, right?
I spent a fair amount my time trying to describe in words what
the brewpub was and why a geologist would be especially suited for
that. So, what obstacles did you face when securing capital to start
the candy shop?
Mr. GUERRETTE. Thank you for that question, sir. We were a lit-
tle bit lucky, and that is because the first shop that we opened was
very small and we were able to purchase it with cash.
And when we continued to grow that, and thankfully my wife
worked there for a year while I was still a Government employee,
we were able to see growth there. And because of that growth and
the financial data we were able to show the banks from the growth
at the first store, they were happy to move forward with a small
loan.
Thankfully, the next location I was going to build wasn’t in the
millions of dollars. And, you know, so the $250,000 we needed to
borrow was reasonable relative to our current sales at our tiny lo-
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That being said, I did have to go to a couple of banks and provide
extensive amount of data on not only what we had for cash, but
collateral as well. And thankfully we had accumulated a little bit
of equipment.
But at the end of the day, probably the scariest thing was when
I had to sign on the bottom line saying I was personally responsible
for that $250,000 if things didn’t go well. So, that was the scariest
part for sure.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Yes. No, I did—I mean, I got turned
down by 33 banks and we had a commitment from the city and
county of Denver to give $125,000 if we could get $50,000 from a
bank.
And I got turned down by 33 banks, and we offered them—we
signed our houses. They tied the deeds to our house. They had
about 120—the stock, when I got laid off, I had some company—
my retirement benefits were in stock, and I had a partner who had
some stock. We had like $250,000 plus they got first right of all the
brewing equipment, the kitchen. They still wouldn’t, you know.
Mr. GUERRETTE. Exactly. Sure, I had the same situation. They
had—you know, I had to sign over basically everything I owned.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Yes, exactly.
Mr. GUERRETTE. My wife, she was really scared about the house.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Yes.
Mr. GUERRETTE. Well, I am retired, so we still have some income,
you know. They can’t take that.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Yes. Exactly.
Mr. GUERRETTE. It was a little scary, but thankfully, the banks
were very helpful, and it all worked out.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Dr. Haynie, upon leaving military serv-
ice, veterans with security clearances are sometimes led to believe
that their clearance is a sure ticket to success.
However, if prospective contracting opportunities that require se-
curity clearances are not advertised well, then veteran entre-
preneurs new to the contracting world may not know about the op-
portunity, even though they would qualify for it.
So, can you share your thoughts on ways that we could better
connect recently, newly become veterans, newly separated from the
military that still hold a—how can they still hold a security clear-
ance with classified contracting opportunities to put their qualifica-
tions to work?
Dr. HAYNIE. Thank you, Senator, for the question. It brings back
in listening to Mr. Rhoades’ response earlier.
I was an Air Force contracting officer while I was in service, so
I understand the pain uniquely. And if I am being very candid
here, I don’t recommend—you know, 70,000 veterans or so through
the programs that we run to help them become small business
owners, and I don’t recommend that they start with Government
contracting.
I would instead, and as a way to answer your question—that se-
curity clearance, however, is valuable. And, you know, my counsel,
my mentorship in a situation like that would be actually leverage
that clearance in the context of a firm that already has Govern-
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Build some experience such that you can leverage that past expe-
rience to then subsequently launch a business. But I wouldn’t rec-
ommend they start there, candidly.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. That is good advice. All right. I am out
of time somehow. It is impossible, but I have——
[Laughter.]
Senator HICKENLOOPER [continuing]. I have other questions I
will submit in writing, and you will get them some time and hope-
fully you can answer them—more at your leisure, right. Yield back
to the chair. Thank you.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you. We will do a second round of ques-
tions for anybody who was able to stay. Senator Duckworth.
Senator DUCKWORTH. Thank you, Chair Shaheen and Ranking
Member Ernst for holding this hearing today. Dr. Haynie, I would
like to direct my questions to you. Given your role in overseeing
the Institute for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse Uni-
versity, and its work administering the Boots to Business Program.
As you may know, for the past two Congresses, I have introduced
bipartisan legislation with Ranking Member Ernst called the Vet-
eran Entrepreneurship Training Act, which would codify the Boots
to Business Program into law.
I have long supported this program because of its successful
track record helping service members, veterans, and military
spouses to build critical small business development skills and pre-
pare them for professional success after military service.
Dr. Haynie, from your experience administering the Boots to
Business Program, how has the program contributed to the entre-
preneurial journey of the more than 194,000 veterans,
servicemembers, and spouses that have gone through the program
since 2013?
And can you share any positive outcomes you have witnessed in
your work?
Dr. HAYNIE. I can——
Senator DUCKWORTH. There is no better softball than that. And
that is like slow pitch—coming in off plate——
[Laughter.]
Dr. HAYNIE. And Senator, I will say if there is— there are few
people on the planet that are bigger evangelists for your legislation
than me. And it is a good way to start answering your question,
because when I started doing this work all the way back in 2006,
2007, there was no pathway out of the military for business owner-
ship.
As a matter of fact, service members transitioning from military
to civilian life were discouraged on a regular basis from pursue—
for pursuing entrepreneurship. And you know, so much has
changed since then.
And I think Boot to Business, what it does is it makes for an in-
formed consumer, is how I like to describe it. I think that is the
power in Boots to Business. And not just an informed consumer for
those that eventually go on to pursue business ownership, but an
informed consumer of those who, through Boots to Business, learn
that business ownership maybe isn’t a good fit for them, for their
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Those are metrics we don’t collect, and I wish we did, because
I think that there is real power in the program in helping individ-
uals also see that this isn’t a good fit for me, my family situation.
And because business ownership is not like going out and getting
a traditional job, if it doesn’t work out, you leave that job and find
another one.
You are putting, as you heard these stories, you are putting per-
sonal capital at risk, and you do want to be an informed consumer
of making that choice. That said, when you look at what has come
from Boots to Business, it is beyond powerful.
You know, about six years ago, my institute partnered with Inc.
Business Media and in the Inc. 5000 to create something called the
VET 100. This is an annual listing of the 100 fastest growing vet-
eran owned businesses in America.
The 2023, that 100 just came out, and there are—of those 100,
there are 25 veterans this year that are—that went through this
ecosystem. That their businesses were birthed through this Boots
to Business to partners, whether that is in procurement or pro-
grams at the IMF.
You know, and they are now running four, five, six years later,
the fastest growing, privately held veteran owned businesses in
America. You know, I think that is the power of the program and
the model and making informed consumers of those leaving mili-
tary service.
Senator DUCKWORTH. Thank you. Do you believe cementing the
program into statute would bring increased ability to program ad-
ministrators and future participants? And what more can SBA and
Congress do to expand opportunities for veterans, servicemembers,
and their spouses who are interested in small business entrepre-
neurship?
Dr. HAYNIE. So, I absolutely do. I couldn’t even wait for you to
finish asking me the question to say that I think the stability that
you describe is critical.
I think it also, you know, a question that Colonel Green was
asked earlier about getting the word out. I think one of the chal-
lenges, and it is not fair for me to say this, DOD isn’t in the room,
but it really is for DOD and, you know, the sergeants and captains
to make sure that folks transitioning are aware of the—that is the
first point of contact and first point of awareness.
And regularizing, if you will, Boots to Business will signal to
DOD that this is not something that year in and year out could go
away. It is a commitment of the country to the program, and I
think that would make all the difference.
Senator DUCKWORTH. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you, Senator Duckworth. Senator Rosen.
Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Mem-
ber Ernst. Thank you all for being here. I am going to submit a
question for the record building on this. If you are seeing trends
in particular sectors in your top 100, maybe that is something that
veterans should know about, too.
So, we will submit that for the record, because I want to talk
about something near and dear to my heart, which is the Veterans
Business Outreach Center. Obviously, we can maybe talk about
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those trends and what sectors, as we are getting the first ones in
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Nevada. Because we are home to more than 200,000 veterans, over
23,000 veteran own small businesses.
That is actually one in eight small businesses in our State, which
99 percent of businesses are small businesses. So, despite this, we
have been without a dedicated in-state veterans business outreach
center that is just for Nevada.
And so, the absence of an in-state VBOC, a one stop shop pro-
viding small business support to veterans, transitioning
servicemembers, and their families has really meant limited infor-
mation and resources for Nevada veterans looking to start or grow
a business.
And so, earlier this year, I called on the SBA to establish a
VBOC in Nevada to ensure that tailored support is provided to our
veterans and transitioning service members to address their
unique needs and concerns.
And I am so thrilled to report to the committee here today that
in April, the SBA authorized the establishment of a VBOC in Ne-
vada. There will be multiple locations, one Northern Nevada, one
Southern Nevada.
So, Colonel Green, can you speak to the importance of the vet-
erans business outreach centers and helping to ease the transition
from active duty to civilian life for veterans who want to start a
small business? And how can the VBOCs support the existing vet-
erans businesses and help them grow?
Colonel GREEN. Yes. Senator, thank you for the question. I know
we are excited about the Nevada VBOC. We did open one in Colo-
rado as well, so we are excited about those opportunities.
They were chosen because of data. When we looked at areas
where there was, you know, a lot of installations or there was a
lot of tap classes. There was—you know, we historically Boost to
Business.
So, there was a very thorough, data driven decision there to put
one in Nevada. And because there are a lot of veterans and veteran
owned small businesses, it will make a big impact in there.
Again, I think we have one in Nevada office with a satellite office
in Reno, and they are going to be able to expand their reach into
some of the rural areas. But again, you know, they are going to be
providing training and counseling, and partnerships is going to be
critical for them with the small business development centers.
Our district offices are already there. So, they have a great op-
portunity. And their primary role for a VBOC there, number one
role is teaching the Boots to Business Program at the installations,
at the National Guard and Reserve bases, and in other areas.
So, we are really excited to have one there. I think the Adminis-
trator is excited about it. She will be out as well.
Senator ROSEN. Yes, I am very excited. We are going to be doing
that soon. And you kind of led me into my next question, which I
will kind of shorten up a little bit because a lot of our businesses,
just like I see Colorado and Indiana, in our rural areas, and a third
of all of the veterans owned businesses in Nevada are in our rural
communities.
So, they are extremely frontier. They are very mountainous.
They face unique challenges, and they have much less access to in-
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person resources. So, to Dr. Haynie and then Ms. Shimkat, what
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is your experience reaching the veterans owned small businesses in
the rural areas? What can Congress do to help you fill in any of
those gaps so those folks who can’t just get to the city easily, how
do we support them?
Dr. HAYNIE. Just very briefly, it is again, from the research we
do, it is a significant challenge. Veterans looking to start and grow
a business in rural areas are significantly under resourced from the
perspective of those supportive services.
One of the things that we have done is create partnerships with
community colleges. Community colleges in many instances are in
those rural areas. They are great partners to us.
So, we took a program that we have been running for a long time
called the Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans Program, and
created a version of that that we are now offering through a con-
sortium of community colleges around the country.
Ms. SHIMKAT. I will start by echoing my colleague with the com-
munity colleges. We utilize the community college network for
training. That takes it off of our plate so then we can focus on the
direct one to one counseling.
We have 15 centers across the State. What we do, though, is we
also have 50 satellite offices that we have in partnership with the
Main Street Iowa Program, with the Chambers of Commerce. And
a struggle that we have, as you had mentioned, broadband. You
know, people say, well, you go to the rural areas, just do it online.
That doesn’t work. And so that is why we have to get out there.
We have to have that windshield time for our advisors to be one
on one with them. That is the biggest impact for us, is just being
able to utilize other partners and other resources, and that is prob-
ably the biggest answer I can give you.
Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you. We love our community col-
leges, and I can tell you we have been investing in broadband and
we are going to get it to every single home and every single com-
munity because we can’t function as a nation without it. So, thank
you—to Madam Chair——
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you, Senator Rosen. Senator Young.
Senator YOUNG. I thank our Chair and Ranking Member for
holding this important hearing, and thank you all, for our wit-
nesses, for serving our veterans in important ways. I have a lim-
ited amount of time, so I am going to try and focus on one distinct
barrier that many of our veterans are facing today. It is called a
contracting cliff.
Some of you may be familiar with this dynamic. If you look at
the current rules for Federal contractors, there is this clear chal-
lenge, when small businesses grow into mid-sized companies. They
suddenly find themselves ineligible for crucial set aside contracts,
and instead they face competition from major global firms.
This is the contracting cliff. It is not just a hurdle, it is a barrier
that is stopping small businesses from growing, and it is reducing
the diversity of our Federal marketplace at the same time.
So, Colonel Green, I ask you that, you know, based on your expe-
rience, given your understanding of veteran owned businesses, can
you discuss the specific challenges that the firms have identified,
encounter in retaining current Government contracts, and scaling
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And then additionally, how is the SBA currently equipped to help
these businesses navigate and overcome these obstacles?
Colonel GREEN. Senator, it is a great question. Federal con-
tracting is complicated. And I think you are referring to probably
to the 8(a) program that runs about——
Senator YOUNG. That is right. Yes, I am.
Colonel GREEN [continuing]. Nine years. We do have—we do run
across a lot of businesses that after they get to a certain size or
they run out of time, they do have challenges with getting other
contracts. That is a lot of the reason we refer them to like pro-
grams like the Veteran Institute for Procurement to help them
grow and expand to the next level. So, we know it is a challenge
and we will be taking—take it back and take even more of a look
at it.
Senator YOUNG. Well, I appreciate that. We see these sorts of
cliffs in other areas of public policy, and they always seem to lead
to various distortions, and they oftentimes lead to the opposite of
what you want to happen.
So, you know, you see them with respect to benefits cliffs. People
stop working so they can be eligible for certain Federal benefits.
The vast majority of my colleagues don’t want people to stop work-
ing. In this case, you don’t want people who establish a small vet-
erans owned business to be disincentivized from growing that busi-
ness. It is just sort of asinine.
And I suspect all of you agree. And I know you didn’t develop all
those provisions, but I am not coming to offer a mere lamentation,
though I have done that. I introduced a piece of legislation that I
think would fix this perverse anomaly.
It is called the Success Act. Senator Hickenlooper has also joined
me on this, and our aim is to tackle this contracting cliff dynamic.
To be brief, my bill would create a seven year off ramp to allow
growing businesses in the construction and engineering sectors to
keep competing for set aside contracts during their transition to
mid-size status. I am open to other solutions.
I think this one does the trick and is worth a try. And I want
to see, Mr. Green, though you may not be familiar with the spe-
cifics of the Success Act, I respect that, could you give us your
thoughts on how policies like an off ramp program could influence
growth in Federal contracting opportunities?
Colonel GREEN. Yes. Thank you again for the question. It does
seem like a reasonable approach to getting them off the program.
I know the program was designed to be a certain length of time,
to give them an opportunity to grow into their next level.
So, I—sir, I respectfully would have to take this back with my
Government contracting business development office. And that is,
the individual that runs that used to run our office, so he is very
familiar with veterans and veteran programs, and he is taking a
lot of these challenges head on.
So, we will take that back and give you a better answer.
Senator YOUNG. Please do. Thank you for that. Offer your con-
structive feedback, your critical feedback, whatever. And I am hop-
ing that together, perhaps, if you if you think there are deficiencies
in our approach, you can offer another approach, and maybe we
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So, thank you again to all of our witnesses for your service. And
Madam Chair, I yield back my two seconds, I think.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you. We will make good use of your two
seconds. Dr. Haynie, virtually everybody there has testified to the
challenge of accessing capital for veteran owned businesses. Are
there additional policy recommendations you have for the com-
mittee to help address access to capital?
Dr. HAYNIE. You know, so, yes. You know, I think, one, we need
to study the problem more than we have. We need to truly under-
stand the barriers from not just the perspective of veterans and
servicemember, but, you know, for lenders.
We need to understand this from the perspective of lenders. We
need to understand—and I think maybe more actionable in the
near term. You know, one of the big barriers we identify is the
credit history or lack of, of those leaving the service.
And, you know, a lot of folks like to jump to it is bad credit his-
tory, therefore they can’t get a loan. It is not always bad credit. A
lot of times it is just no credit history. You know, so the extent to
which on the DOD side, we can continue and emphasize financial
readiness and programs designed to support a credit history when
someone transitions from military service.
You know, the stories that have been shared by my fellow panel
members about, you know, background and experience. The reality
is when someone puts on the uniform, they put the rest of their life
on hold to serve.
And their peers are out there gaining relevant experience and in
industries where they are looking to start a business, therefore,
they can tell a different story to a lender than someone coming out
of the service that doesn’t have that same experience.
So that also speaks to, you know, programs like DOD Skill
Bridge and continuing the opportunity for folks that do apprentice-
ships, if you will, as part of their transition so they can gain that
experience.
But it is a very complex problem, this problem of access to cap-
ital, for veterans and servicemembers.
Chair SHAHEEN. Well, your point about more study, I think is a
really important one. And this committee ought to look at that and
see how we can be helpful.
And, but one of the things that veterans do have are skills that
you have learned in the military, that you bring to a business, if
you start it. So, I don’t know, I thought Mr. Guerrette, Mr.
Rhoades, both of you talked about some of the challenges of getting
into business.
But can you talk about what skills you brought from the military
that you think were helpful as you were starting up your business?
Can start——
Mr. RHOADES. Yes, ma’am. Actually, I can speak to two things.
What I did bring—what I am actually missing.
So, leadership and management, definitely. As an officer, I had
been trained in multiple ways and I have been able to actually
transfer some of that leadership and management training to my
managers and teach them about leadership and management.
And so, that as well as just kind of the discipline that you get
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after being in the military for 25 years about kind of that work
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48
ethic and knowing that sometimes you are going to work 12, 14,
16 hours and that is just the way it is.
And so, it is like they say, you quit your 40-hour job, start your
own business so you can work 100 hours a week. And so, that hap-
pens sometimes, whether it is because I have to cover a shift or
just because that is the amount of work we have to do.
What I am missing and what I think I would like to go and
search out is marketing, you know, business management, some of
that. I have actually considered hiring somebody with a business
management degree because sometimes you get to the point, yes,
you are running this little business, but it has gotten a little bigger
than just a little business.
You know, it is a seven-figure business all of a sudden and you
are like, what should I really be doing right now? What should I
be focusing on?
And so, I think I would like to find avenues where I could learn
a little bit about marketing. I have taken classes at college on fi-
nances. But, you know, marketing and business management are
a couple of things I would like to search out in the future.
Chair SHAHEEN. So, Ms. Shimkat, can’t the SBDCs help with
that? Yes, I want Mr. Rhoades to answer, too, but I just
thought——
Ms. SHIMKAT. Absolutely. That is one of the things that espe-
cially—you know, we have 15 directors plus counselors out there
that have a lot of knowledge.
And one of the things that we have really tried to do internally
also is I have a director that is really focused on marketing, an-
other one that has the finance depth. Another one who is an attor-
ney, a CPA.
And guess what? They can work together. Similar to what I have
been talking about with some of the SBA programs. So yes, that
is definitely something we can help you out with. And I know for
a fact the folks in New Hampshire can do it as well.
Chair SHAHEEN. Yes, I know you know the SBDC at UNH. So,
I am sure you are familiar with that. Mr. Rhoades, do you want
to answer the other question?
Mr. RHOADES. Yes, I agree a lot here. You know, one of the skills
that wasn’t mentioned that I believe that I came out with was, you
know, the ability to adapt to change.
Because in the business world you may be thinking you are going
one way, then all of a sudden something happens and you got to
pivot, which I think is huge. But one of the biggest things, like it
was mentioned before, I don’t remember who said it was, when I
was getting out of the military, it was pretty frowned upon to want
to start your own business. And I hope that is starting to change.
And then, the other aspect of it is, is having somebody help you
translate the skills that you may have, that you just don’t know
that you have or gained in your military service, and how those can
help you outside, I think would be very beneficial as well.
Chair SHAHEEN. Yes, really important. Thank you both. I want
to—with the Ranking Member’s tolerance, I will ask a final ques-
tion of Colonel Green, because Senator Ernst and I both serve on
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the Armed Services committee and one of the things that we hear
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49
a lot about are the challenges that spouses of members in the mili-
tary have as they are supporting their spouse in their service.
And talk about, if you will, some of the ways in which SBA is
thinking about helping families and the spouses of veterans as they
are transitioning to civilian life.
Colonel GREEN. Chair Shaheen, this is probably one of the most
important subjects in my mind for us. With military spouses—
[technical problems]. My daughter, I will never forgive her because
she married a Marine. [Laughter.]
Colonel GREEN. She was a contractor for Ernst & Young in—
[technical problems]. Like, it was great money. So, she married
and—[technical problems].
So, what she did—part of the reason she is doing successful
now—[technical problems]—telework. She does financial stuff and
it kind of made sense. So, her story is good. Seven months on the
job. I told—before, I was 28 years in the military—[technical prob-
lems]—my wife was a teacher.
[Technical problems]—so all of those challenges hit home to me.
So, what we did recently was all about the military spouses. The
Halfway to Business Program I talked about earlier. The cur-
riculum is on spouses—[technical problems]. Partnerships are crit-
ical. We partner with the Department of Defense, the Military
Spouse Education and Career Opportunity Office.
And they have a great network of military spouses that can ei-
ther mentor, and you can go there for employment, or—[technical
problems]—includes entrepreneurship. We also partner—we are
trying to get the word out on all of our programs.
So, we try to partner with the Chamber of Commerce, has an
Amplify Program. Department of Labor has a transition program
for military spouses called Teams. We got our curriculum in there.
So, it is really important, I think. Military spouses are hard to
reach, and we are doing everything we can to reach them. And
when we do reach them, try to make it as effective as possible. But
it is still, it is a big challenge and will be a big challenge for the
future.
Chair SHAHEEN. Thank you very much. Senator Ernst.
Senator ERNST. Thank you. And if I could go back to you, Mr.
Rhoades, I really again, appreciate it. You mentioned the impor-
tance of networking and in-person connections, as well as the need
for seasoned mentors.
And, in your view, would you find it helpful to get mentorship
from just anyone? Or is it better for that veteran, small business
owner who understands the landscape you are navigating be a lit-
tle more helpful than just anyone?
Mr. RHOADES. Ranking Member, thank you. It is somebody that
has gone through it. Because I have done a lot of networking and
my problem that I have ran into is from being in a small rural
area, you have amazing business leaders, but all of them may not
know the landscape of—a veteran’s owned business may need. So,
it is finding that right mentor for your business structure, I would
say.
Senator ERNST. Thank you. I appreciate that. I do believe in hav-
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ing someone that has walked in your boots, provide that counseling
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50
and mentorship. I think if you can relate with someone that has
been there, done that, I do think it is important.
And that is whether it is veterans owned business or women
owned small business, whatever it might happen to be. Yes, so
thank you. I appreciate it.
And Colonel Green as well, and this has been tricky, and I have
heard it mentioned a little bit from some of the others here, but
I have been concerned about the Administration stripping our
States of the SBA district office support, but they are growing staff
here in Washington, D.C. headquarters.
And in Iowa alone, we have gone from 12 personnel down to 4
in a very big rural State, and that was 12 in 2015 and 4 today.
The ongoing remote work policies at headquarters further reduces
the SBA’s ability to serve small business owners.
So, we have seen this in many States. How does the Administra-
tion justify stripping Iowa, New Hampshire, and other States of
district office support while moving the positions to Washington,
D.C., and further complicating this, having folks here in D.C. often-
times teleworking, so they are not even in the office. Then, how
does that help our rural areas?
Colonel GREEN. Ranking Member Ernst, I appreciate the concern
you have with—I am really focused on serving veterans through
our programs. I can’t really speak to the district offices and how
they are managed.
We do have—we do get extremely strong support from the ad-
ministrator and for our programs serving veterans, and for the
VBOCs, and for the Boots to Business Program. So, I really can’t
comment, but I can take that question back for our Congressional
staff.
Senator ERNST. Yes, I appreciate that. Let’s—I will submit that
for the record. I just want to voice the concerns because we have
heard many times over from so many of us that are in rural areas
and how we have lost staffing in rural communities.
It is not just going to impact, you know, everyday Joe on the
street, but it is most certainly going to impact our veterans as well.
States like New Hampshire, States like Iowa. A lot of our veterans
members are also National Guardsmen and Reservists.
And oftentimes those numbers are not rolled up into the metrics
that SBA is looking for when they are placing VBOCs.
So, we do need to make sure that we are adequately representing
veterans, regardless of whether they were an active duty service
member or whether they are a veteran that is coming home from
a deployment and needing to start a new experience—whether that
is owning their own business or starting into a new job.
I know that many of the soldiers I served with had those com-
plications, coming home from those rapid deployments through the
global war on terrorism. So, we do need to make sure we are rep-
resenting all veterans to the best of our ability.
So, Madam Chair, I appreciate this panel. Wonderful service.
Thank you all so much for what you have done, and for being with
us today. And I am so glad that we have been able to focus really
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on our veterans community.
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And thanks for everything that you do for our veterans, and con-
gratulations to our business owners as well. Thank you for joining
us.
Chair SHAHEEN. Well, thank you very much, Senator Ernst. And
just for the record, let me point out that I share those concerns
about a reduction in staff in district offices, because our district of-
fices, our SBDC, our VBOCs, all of those centers that serve small
businesses are really critical and it is critical to be there in person
to have somebody that people can talk to.
To all of you, thank you so much for being here today, and for
the work that you do on behalf of our nation’s small businesses and
on behalf of the veterans community. We look forward to staying
in touch as we try and take some of the ideas that you have given
us today and think about how to translate those into legislation or
into better service for our veterans.
The record will remain open for two weeks because of the holi-
day, for additional questions and statements. And with that, the
committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 4:15 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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File and source
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