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Utilization of Small Contractors in the Infrastructure Plan (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, June 10, 2021)

Summary

Printed record of a hearing of the House Committee on Small Business, Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure, held June 10, 2021, titled Utilization of Small Contractors in the Infrastructure Plan, Small Business Committee Document Number 117–017. Opening statements came from Hon. Kweisi Mfume and Hon. Maria Salazar. Witnesses were Sheila Ohrenberg, national president of Women Construction Owners and Executives; Ralph Thomas III, executive director emeritus of the National Association of Minority Contractors; Josh Bone, executive director of ELECTRI International, testifying for the National Electrical Contractors Association; and Dr. Annie Mecias-Murphy of JA&M Developing Corp., testifying for the Associated Builders and Contractors. The appendix prints their prepared statements and answers to questions from Hon. Scott Fitzgerald.

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“Utilization of Small Contractors in the Infrastructure Plan (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, June 10, 2021).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/utilization-of-small-contractors-in-the-infrastructure-plan-house-smal-3cd30d814b/, SHA-256 c471274d4bcfc9c6b36279c39c1a26ea1678f50aed9a8ebab8e6de8c9b5757f0.

Full text

                                                                   UTILIZATION OF SMALL CONTRACTORS IN THE
                                                                             INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN


                                                                                                  HEARING
                                                                                                         BEFORE THE


                                                                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONTRACTING AND
                                                                           INFRASTRUCTURE
                                                                                                            OF THE


                                                                        COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                               UNITED STATES
                                                                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
                                                                                ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                                       FIRST SESSION


                                                                                                       HEARING HELD
                                                                                                        JUNE 10, 2021




                                                                                 Small Business Committee Document Number 117–017
                                                                                   Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov



                                                                                           U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                                                    44–750                             WASHINGTON : 2021




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                                                                                    HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                       NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                                                                                                JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                                                                                                JASON CROW, Colorado
                                                                                               SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                                                                                              KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                                                                                              DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                                                                                               MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
                                                                                           CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
                                                                                               TROY CARTER, Louisiana
                                                                                                 JUDY CHU, California
                                                                                            DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                                                                                            ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
                                                                                          CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                                                                                                ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                                                                                               ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
                                                                                    BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
                                                                                               ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                                                                                              JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
                                                                                              PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                                                                                              DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                                                                                             CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
                                                                                           ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
                                                                                                YOUNG KIM, California
                                                                                               BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                                                                                               BYRON DONALDS, Florida
                                                                                               MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                                                                                            SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

                                                                                           MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
                                                                                      ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
                                                                                              DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director




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                                                                                                             CONTENTS
                                                                                                           OPENING STATEMENTS
                                                                                                                                                                                            Page
                                                              Hon. Kweisi Mfume .................................................................................................             1
                                                              Hon. Maria Salazar .................................................................................................            3

                                                                                                                     WITNESSES
                                                              Ms. Sheila Ohrenberg, National President, Women Construction Owners and
                                                                Executives (WCOE), President, Sorella Group, Kansas City, KS ....................                                             7
                                                              Mr. Ralph Thomas III, Executive Director Emeritus, National Association
                                                                of Minority Contractors (NAMC), Attorney, Law Offices of Ralph C. Thomas
                                                                III PLLC, Washington, DC ..................................................................................                   9
                                                              Mr. Josh Bone, Executive Director, ELECTRI International, Washington, DC,
                                                                testifying on behalf of the National Electrical Contractors Association
                                                                (NECA) ..................................................................................................................    10
                                                              Dr. Annie Mecias-Murphy, Co-Owner & President, JA&M Developing Corp.,
                                                                Pembroke Pines, FL, testifying on behalf of the Associated Builders and
                                                                Contractors in her role as the Treasurer and Board Member of the Florida
                                                                First Coast Chapter .............................................................................................            12

                                                                                                                      APPENDIX
                                                              Prepared Statements:
                                                                  Ms. Sheila Ohrenberg, National President, Women Construction Owners
                                                                    and Executives (WCOE), President, Sorella Group, Kansas City, KS .....                                                   30
                                                                  Mr. Ralph Thomas III, Executive Director Emeritus, National Association
                                                                    of Minority Contractors (NAMC), Attorney, Law Offices of Ralph C.
                                                                    Thomas III PLLC, Washington, DC ............................................................                             35
                                                                  Mr. Josh Bone, Executive Director, ELECTRI International, Washington,
                                                                    DC, testifying on behalf of the National Electrical Contractors Associa-
                                                                    tion (NECA) ...................................................................................................          42
                                                                  Dr. Annie Mecias-Murphy, Co-Owner & President, JA&M Developing
                                                                    Corp., Pembroke Pines, FL, testifying on behalf of the Association
                                                                    Builders and Contractors in her role as the Treasurer and Board Mem-
                                                                    ber of the Florida First Coast Chapter .......................................................                           53
                                                              Questions and Answers for the Record:
                                                                  Questions from Hon. Scott Fitzgerald to Ms. Sheila Ohrenberg and An-
                                                                    swers from Ms. Sheila Ohrenberg ...............................................................                          61
                                                                  Questions from Hon. Kweisi Mfume and Hon. Scott Fitzgerald to Ms.
                                                                    Annie Mecias-Murphy and Answers from Ms. Annie Mecias-Murphy .....                                                       63
                                                              Additional Material for the Record:
                                                                  Direct Steel LLC ...............................................................................................           73




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                                                                   UTILIZATION OF SMALL CONTRACTORS IN
                                                                         THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN


                                                                                            THURSDAY, JUNE 10, 2021

                                                                                   HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                                                                    COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
                                                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONTRACTING AND INFRASTRUCTURE,
                                                                                                                   Washington, DC.
                                                                 The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:01 p.m., via Zoom,
                                                              Hon. Kweisi Mfume [chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
                                                                 Present: Representatives Mfume, Newman, Andy Kim,
                                                              Hagedorn, Stauber, Meuser, Salazar, and Fitzgerald.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to
                                                              call to order this hearing today of the Subcommittee on Infrastruc-
                                                              ture and Contracting.
                                                                 And I would like to thank, first of all, all of the Members on both
                                                              sides of the aisle who thought it important enough to be with us.
                                                              There is a lot going on today, and I can appreciate that.
                                                                 Without objection, the Chair is authorized, as most of you know,
                                                              to declare a recess at any time.
                                                                 And let me begin by saying that standing House committee rules
                                                              and practices will continue to apply during the remote proceedings.
                                                              All Members are reminded that they are expected to adhere to
                                                              those standing rules, including decorum, when they are partici-
                                                              pating in any remote event such as this.
                                                                 With that said, the technology that we are using today requires
                                                              us to make small changes and modifications from time to time to
                                                              ensure that Members can fully participate in these proceedings.
                                                                 House regulations require Members to be visible through a video
                                                              connection throughout the proceeding, so I would respectfully ask
                                                              that everyone keep their cameras on. If you have to participate in
                                                              another proceeding, please exit and then log back in later at a time
                                                              convenient for you.
                                                                 In the event that a Member encounters technical issues that pre-
                                                              vent them from being recognized for their questioning, I will then
                                                              move to the next available Member of the same party, and I will
                                                              recognize the other Member at the next appropriate time slot, pro-
                                                              vided, that is, that they have returned back to the proceeding.
                                                                 Should a Member’s time be interrupted by technical issues, I will
                                                              recognize that Member at the next appropriate spot for the remain-
                                                              der of their time once the issues have, in fact, been resolved.
                                                                 And in the event that a witness loses connectivity during testi-
                                                              mony or questioning, I will preserve their time as staff seeks to ad-
                                                              dress the technical issue. In that event, I may need to recess the
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                                                              proceedings to provide time for the witness then themselves to re-
                                                              connect.
                                                                And, finally, please remember to remain muted until you are rec-
                                                              ognized in order to minimize the amount of background noise that
                                                              oftentimes accompanies these Zoom meetings.
                                                                In accordance with rules, staff has been advised to mute partici-
                                                              pants only in the event if there is inadequate background noise—
                                                              or overwhelming background noise, I should say. And should a
                                                              Member wish to be recognized, they then just should unmute them-
                                                              selves and seek recognition at, of course, the appropriate time.
                                                                At this time, the Chair would like to recognize himself for an
                                                              opening statement.
                                                                Infrastructure helps to form the foundation of our nation. Every
                                                              day, Americans across the country rely on infrastructure to com-
                                                              mute to work, to access clean water, and to communicate with one
                                                              another. But despite infrastructure’s fundamental importance to
                                                              our country, it has become an afterthought in many respects over
                                                              the past several decades.
                                                                The U.S., as we all know, is the wealthiest country globally, but
                                                              we are ranked 13th worldwide when it comes to the quality of our
                                                              infrastructure. Fortunately, there is a wide consensus, which is bi-
                                                              partisan, that the current state of American infrastructure is, in
                                                              fact, unsustainable.
                                                                That is why in April, President Biden introduced the American
                                                              Jobs Plan. The plan would revitalize the American infrastructure
                                                              through major investments and federal funding over the next dec-
                                                              ade.
                                                                The job plan would fix highways, repair bridges, improve air-
                                                              ports, water ports, expand transit and rail into new communities.
                                                              It would also eliminate lead water pipes and improve high-speed
                                                              broadband, upgrade our schools and federal buildings, and so
                                                              much, much more.
                                                                By all accounts, this plan, we believe, truly represents a new vi-
                                                              sion for America, one through which by rebuilding with purpose we
                                                              take care of the environment, further enhance equity, and create
                                                              the basis for a stronger economic future.
                                                                In this respect, an investment in infrastructure would be a sig-
                                                              nificant benefit to small firms. Small businesses, as we all know,
                                                              rely on infrastructure systems daily to increase their access to con-
                                                              sumers and suppliers, to boost business operations, and create new
                                                              demand for their goods and for their many services.
                                                                Infrastructure investment would also be a boon for the millions
                                                              of small businesses that directly and indirectly support the devel-
                                                              opment, modernization, and the maintenance of many facets of in-
                                                              frastructure.
                                                                In the construction industry alone, it is estimated that there are
                                                              3 million small businesses employing over 82 percent of all U.S.
                                                              employees in that one sector. Put simply, an investment in infra-
                                                              structure is indeed an investment in small business.
                                                                Currently, there are an array of federal measures in place to en-
                                                              sure small businesses can participate in the procurement process
                                                              and receive their fair share of contracting dollars. For instance, a
                                                              governmentwide goal requires that 23 percent of all eligible con-
                                                              tracting—or prime contracting dollars be spent with small busi-




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                                                              nesses, while other goals exist for specific subsets of small contrac-
                                                              tors at the prime and at the subcontracting level.
                                                                 Other policies include the creation of contracting programs ad-
                                                              ministered by the SBA that reserve contracts for underserved small
                                                              businesses through set-aside and sole-source opportunities.
                                                                 And, finally, there are contracting programs implemented at the
                                                              State and local level whenever federal assistance is involved, such
                                                              as the case in the Department of Transportation’s Disadvantaged
                                                              Business Enterprise Program.
                                                                 The DBE Program is designed to enable women and minority
                                                              small firms to compete for federal contracts led by State and local
                                                              agencies. It is the Department of Transportation’s most important
                                                              tool for remedying many of the effects of discrimination and lev-
                                                              eling the playing field for transportation-related projects.
                                                                 All of these programs are the well-being of the small business
                                                              community and help, obviously, guarantee that small businesses
                                                              will have a seat at the table when it comes to contracting.
                                                                 And so in light of the American Jobs Plan and the thousands of
                                                              contracting opportunities it will create, I hope that today’s hearing
                                                              gives us a chance to look closer at these programs which I believe
                                                              are crucial to maximize small business participation and con-
                                                              tracting at the local, state, and federal level.
                                                                 I am also looking forward to hearing from our expert witnesses
                                                              on ways that Congress can leverage infrastructure investment to
                                                              meet the needs of small businesses across our country.
                                                                 I would like now, if I might, to yield respectfully to the Ranking
                                                              Member of this Subcommittee, Ms. Salazar, the gentlewoman from
                                                              the State of Florida, for her opening statement.
                                                                 Ms. Salazar, you are recognized.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Wonderful to see you
                                                              and the rest of my colleagues. And holding this hearing is ex-
                                                              tremely important because we are at a critical time of economic re-
                                                              covery from the pandemic and our small business should be driving
                                                              this recovery.
                                                                 Infrastructure is the vehicle. In south Florida, we understand
                                                              this dynamic, that our economy is linked to miles of coastline. One
                                                              of America’s largest ports is in District No. 27. We have major U.S.
                                                              highways and an international airport in my district.
                                                                 Infrastructure is fundamental to our daily lives. We rely on it to
                                                              go to work and to provide for our families. We spend valuable time
                                                              going from place to place, from here to there. When it works, it im-
                                                              proves our lives and it makes it a lot more enjoyable. But when
                                                              highways are congested or public transit is delayed, it is not only
                                                              frustrating, as I am sure you know, but it hurts our productivity
                                                              and our economic growth.
                                                                 I think we can all agree that our aging infrastructure needs a
                                                              major upgrade, and we must maintain our focus on improving the
                                                              nation’s core infrastructure system. I urge my colleagues across the
                                                              aisle to work with us towards this goal.
                                                                 Where we disagree, I believe, is on the definition of infrastruc-
                                                              ture. Unfortunately, President Biden’s plan is not about infrastruc-
                                                              ture at all, or very little. For example, the plan the President has
                                                              proposed expands Medicaid coverage for home care. Medicare is




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                                                              fantastic for my constituents, but it has nothing to do with infra-
                                                              structure.
                                                                 It puts billions and billions into social justice and violence pre-
                                                              vention programs. That is fantastic, but it has nothing to do with
                                                              infrastructure.
                                                                 It provides $12 billion to college infrastructure. I think education
                                                              is key—the more you learn, the more you earn—but it has nothing
                                                              to do with infrastructure.
                                                                 $180 billion for research and development. For what? I don’t
                                                              think research has anything to do with infrastructure.
                                                                 With only a fraction of those moneys related to infrastructure, it
                                                              makes it really hard for us to understand and to agree with this
                                                              bill the way it has been presented.
                                                                 These issues may be fine for Congress to consider at another
                                                              time, but we need to be honest with the American people, with
                                                              your constituents and mine. The administration is trying to fool us
                                                              into believing that this wish list, which we agree with but has
                                                              nothing to do with infrastructure, should be part of this bill.
                                                                 Now, to small business and contracting. If the goal of today’s
                                                              hearing is to discuss the utilization of small contractors in the
                                                              President’s package, we must understand the barriers that are im-
                                                              posed on small business owners.
                                                                 Small business operates best when the government does not
                                                              stand in the way. Most things work best when government does not
                                                              interfere. However, unfortunately, this package subjects the small
                                                              business to an extended new set of rules, restrictions, restrictive
                                                              labor rules, like the PRO Act, and other regulatory requirements
                                                              that would end independent contracting, the franchise industry,
                                                              and sharing the economy the way we know it now.
                                                                 In addition to these job-killing regulations, the President has
                                                              proposed to pay for this multi-trillion dollar plan on the backs of
                                                              the small businesses through tax increases. At least 1 million small
                                                              businesses will get a tax increase through this proposal.
                                                                 The foundation of any infrastructure project is the construction
                                                              business—and we have a lot down here in Miami—and the major-
                                                              ity of the builders and the contractors or people that build build-
                                                              ings are small businesses.
                                                                 In the construction industry, we have a labor shortage, as you
                                                              know, and there are already difficulties hiring workers, not only in
                                                              construction, but in welding and electricians, all types of manufac-
                                                              turing-related jobs.
                                                                 According to the Associated General Contractors of America, 81
                                                              percent of construction firms are having trouble finding people.
                                                              There are more jobs than hands. And 72 percent anticipate labor
                                                              shortages to be the big hurdle this coming year.
                                                                 I think, Mr. Chairman, that I look forward to hearing the testi-
                                                              monies of the witnesses today, and I would love to work across the
                                                              aisle and make this a reality for all Americans.
                                                                 I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Ms. Salazar.
                                                                 The Ranking Member yields back. We appreciate your comments,
                                                              and as I said before, obviously, appreciate your participation in this
                                                              hearing.




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                                                                 I would like to take a moment, if I might, to do a couple things.
                                                              All Committee Members have opening statements, I assume, and
                                                              if they are prepared, we would ask that they be submitted, without
                                                              objection, for the formal record. Obviously, those statements take
                                                              longer than 5 minutes, and so the revise and extend provision
                                                              would apply here.
                                                                 I would also like to take a moment to explain how this remote
                                                              hearing will proceed. Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide
                                                              a statement, and each committee Member will receive 5 minutes
                                                              for questions. Please ensure that your microphone is on, not like
                                                              mine a moment ago, and that when you begin speaking, and after
                                                              you finish, you return to the mute option.
                                                                 I would like to now introduce our witnesses, as they are prepared
                                                              to give their testimony. And, again, on behalf of all Members of
                                                              this Committee, we appreciate your willingness to be here today.
                                                                 Our first witness is Ms. Sheila Ohrenberg, the president of
                                                              Women Construction Owners and Executives. She is also president
                                                              of Sorella Group, Incorporated, a specialty contractor offering full
                                                              carpentry service and product supply and installation nationwide.
                                                                 Under Ms. Ohrenberg’s leadership, Sorella Group has earned
                                                              multiple awards, including the American Subcontractor 2012 Asso-
                                                              ciated Member Award, and Kansas City American Subcontractor
                                                              2013 Subcontractor of the Year Award.
                                                                 Welcome to you, Ms. Sheila Ohrenberg. Thank you for being a
                                                              witness, and thank you for being here.
                                                                 Our second witness is Mr. Ralph Thomas III, who is the execu-
                                                              tive director emeritus of the National Association of Minority Con-
                                                              tractors. He is also a contracts litigator, who focuses his practice
                                                              on legal issues affecting small businesses. And for more than a dec-
                                                              ade, Mr. Thomas has served as the associate administrator for the
                                                              Office of Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization at the Na-
                                                              tional Aeronautics and Space Administration in Washington.
                                                                 He received his JD from Harvard Law School and his bachelor’s
                                                              of arts degree with honors from the University of California at
                                                              Berkeley.
                                                                 Mr. Thomas, we welcome you as well, and we will get to you in
                                                              just a moment.
                                                                 Our third witness today is Mr. Josh Bone. Mr. Bone is the execu-
                                                              tive director of ELECTRI International, a foundation established
                                                              by the National Electrical Contractors Association in 1989, dedi-
                                                              cated to conducting research and educating electrical contracting
                                                              industry workers and businesses.
                                                                 Mr. Bone also served as the director of industry and innovation
                                                              for NECA. He holds a bachelor’s degree in industrial engineering
                                                              from Southern Poly Tech State University.
                                                                 Welcome, of course, Mr. Bone, to you as well.
                                                                 And now, I would like to yield back to our Ranking Member, Ms.
                                                              Salazar of Florida, to introduce our final witness.
                                                                 Ms. Salazar.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 I would like to welcome our final witness, who is also from south
                                                              Florida, my district, Mrs. Annie Mecias-Murphy. Mrs. Mecias-Mur-
                                                              phy is the co-owner and president of JA&M, a developing corpora-




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                                                              tion. This is a family-owned operation, started by Mrs. Mecias’ fa-
                                                              ther over 45 years ago.
                                                                 Under her leadership, the company has grown into a very well-
                                                              established and dependable company, earning the trust of many cli-
                                                              ents in the private and in the public sector.
                                                                 Her government clients extend over several departments and
                                                              communities, like the Broward County Aviation Department,
                                                              Miami-Dade County, the Florida Division of Highway Safety and
                                                              Motor Vehicles, and the City of Miami.
                                                                 As a testament of her outstanding leadership, her company has
                                                              won the Excellence in Construction Award given by the Associated
                                                              Builders and Contractors of East Coast Chapter in 2017.
                                                                 Mrs. Mecias herself was honored as one of the top 50 women
                                                              business leaders in Florida, and in 2014, she was named VIP
                                                              Woman of the Year for her outstanding dedication to her profes-
                                                              sion. She has also been selected this year as one of the top 100
                                                              leaders in construction by the World Real Estate and Construction
                                                              Forum.
                                                                 Giving back to her community and investing in the lives of young
                                                              people in my district, having taught in high school and university
                                                              for more than 20 years, she also serves on the board of Boys and
                                                              Girls Club of Broward County.
                                                                 In addition to her many professional and personal achievements,
                                                              Mrs. Mecias serves as a treasurer and board member of the South
                                                              Florida Chapter of Associated Builders and Contractors, or ABC,
                                                              whose on behalf she is testifying today. ABC is a national construc-
                                                              tion industry trade association representing over 20,000 members.
                                                                 Mrs. Mecias, thank you for being here with us, for your partici-
                                                              pation, and we look forward to hearing your testimony.
                                                                 I yield back now, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you, Ms. Salazar.
                                                                 And, Mrs. Mecias, welcome again to you, and thank you, like the
                                                              others, for being here with us today.
                                                                 We will begin now our testimony from the witnesses, and the
                                                              Chair will recognize Ms. Ohrenberg for 5 minutes. Please feel free
                                                              to proceed.




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                                                              STATEMENTS OF MS. SHEILA OHRENBERG, NATIONAL PRESI-
                                                               DENT, WOMEN CONSTRUCTION OWNERS AND EXECUTIVES
                                                               (WCOE), PRESIDENT, SORELLA GROUP, KANSAS CITY, KS;
                                                               MR. RALPH THOMAS III, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR EMERITUS,
                                                               NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MINORITY CONTRACTORS
                                                               (NAMC), ATTORNEY, LAW OFFICES OF RALPH C. THOMAS III
                                                               PLLC, WASHINGTON, DC; MR. JOSH BONE, EXECUTIVE DI-
                                                               RECTOR, ELECTRI INTERNATIONAL, WASHINGTON, DC, TES-
                                                               TIFYING ON BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CON-
                                                               TRACTORS ASSOCIATION (NECA); AND DR. ANNIE MECIAS-
                                                               MURPHY, CO-OWNER & PRESIDENT, JA&M DEVELOPING
                                                               CORP., PEMBROKE PINES, FL, TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF
                                                               THE ASSOCIATED BUILDERS AND CONTRACTORS IN HER
                                                               ROLE AS THE TREASURER AND BOARD MEMBER OF THE
                                                               FLORIDA FIRST COAST CHAPTER

                                                                                   STATEMENT OF SHEILA OHRENBERG
                                                                 Ms. OHRENBERG. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Ranking
                                                              Member, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for holding
                                                              this hearing today.
                                                                 As a small business owner and the president of Women Con-
                                                              struction Owners and Executives, I appreciate your commitment to
                                                              ensuring that all categories of small business owners will benefit
                                                              from the major infrastructure package being debated.
                                                                 I am Sheila Ohrenberg, the president of Sorella Group. I founded
                                                              the company in 2006 in my hometown of Kansas City, Kansas. It
                                                              has grown considerably over the past 15 years to a full service,
                                                              merit shop, carpentry company, performing private and public
                                                              work in 23 States, including 5 significant new airports and addi-
                                                              tions.
                                                                 I am pleased to be representing WCOE, one of the only national
                                                              associations representing women owners in the construction indus-
                                                              try.
                                                                 Eleven women started WCOE in 1983 with a goal to help our
                                                              members grow and prosper. We are dedicated to creating a level
                                                              playing field for women-owned firms in the construction industry.
                                                                 Our membership is comprised of nonunion, union, small- and me-
                                                              dium-sized companies that perform work and provide supplies in
                                                              every aspect of construction. We are all eager to assist, maintain,
                                                              modernize our crumbling infrastructure.
                                                                 This plan is essential to every business. The past 16 months
                                                              have been challenging for everyone, especially small businesses. An
                                                              infusion of federal infrastructure projects would generate con-
                                                              tracting opportunities for small businesses that would create back-
                                                              log, jobs, company growth, thus improving our communities.
                                                                 We anticipate direct federal contracts as well as grants and fed-
                                                              erally assisted programs that go to State and local governments.
                                                              These programs make up many of the set-aside and DBE contracts
                                                              that are vital to WCOE members.
                                                                 Small businesses are absolutely necessary to our economy, but
                                                              women-owned small businesses, minority, and veteran-owned busi-
                                                              nesses continue to face barriers to success. This is true in federal
                                                              and private marketplace.




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                                                                 The federal contracting programs Congress has put in place to
                                                              provide greater opportunities for small business are still necessary
                                                              today.
                                                                 The cost of financing, bonding, and insuring projects is dispropor-
                                                              tionately high for small businesses, especially women business
                                                              owners. WCOE members share stories of many of the same bar-
                                                              riers faced by women that started our organization almost 40 years
                                                              ago.
                                                                 The WOSB program 5 percent goal was implemented in 1996.
                                                              This goal has only been met in 2015 and 2019. That is twice in 25
                                                              years, despite the fact that approximately 13 percent of construc-
                                                              tion companies are women-owned.
                                                                 The 2021 CSR report details the WOSB program usage has in-
                                                              creased, but the WOSB set-asides and sole-source awards are still
                                                              not meeting the goals. I think we can do better.
                                                                 We can create incentives to meet the goals and consequences for
                                                              never meeting them. We can make up for the 23 years that we
                                                              missed the goals by increasing the statutory goals above 5 percent
                                                              for WOSBs.
                                                                 We can require more transparency through the SBA Procure-
                                                              ment Scorecard by including how many WOSB programs are
                                                              awarded, along with the value of the contracts by each agency, bet-
                                                              ter coordination of agency resources for women business owners.
                                                              And this can be done by including the bill being introduced next
                                                              week by Representative Meng. This will ensure the Interagency
                                                              Committee on Women’s Business Enterprises meets regularly.
                                                                 A bold infrastructure package will be a great vehicle to increase
                                                              contracting opportunities for disadvantaged businesses for whom
                                                              the playing field is not yet level. The robust funding and the cur-
                                                              rent programs alone are just not enough. We need to protect the
                                                              stability of our small businesses.
                                                                 WCOE works alongside other construction industry coalitions for
                                                              legislation contracting reform. We need to ensure payment protec-
                                                              tions for all construction projects by requiring payment and per-
                                                              formance bonds, including private-public partnerships.
                                                                 We need to pass House bill 2949, the legislation would exclude
                                                              the threshold for construction contracts that must be bonded under
                                                              the Miller Act.
                                                                 Change order reform is necessary. Did you know that change or-
                                                              ders do not typically get paid till the completion of the project? It
                                                              is costly and can be detrimental to small businesses.
                                                                 These programs should not be viewed as the cost of doing busi-
                                                              ness. They should not be viewed as a burden. And the program
                                                              should be designed to educate, train, and advance women that were
                                                              willing to take the leap into business ownership and the American
                                                              Dream.
                                                                 WCOE hopes to continue to work with you to support future gen-
                                                              erations of women business owners.
                                                                 I appreciate your time.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Ms. Ohrenberg. We
                                                              appreciate your time, and we will obviously be getting back to you
                                                              with questions, comments, and observations in just a moment.
                                                                 The Chair would like to recognize Mr. Thomas now for 5 min-
                                                              utes.




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                                                                   Mr. Thomas, feel free to proceed.
                                                                                     STATEMENT OF RALPH THOMAS III
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and other ladies
                                                              and gentleman of the Committee.
                                                                 And, Mr. Chair, it is nice to see you again. It seems like decades
                                                              ago I testified before other Committees and Subcommittees that
                                                              you Chaired, so welcome back.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. [Inaudible.]
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. My name is—and my name is still Ralph C.
                                                              Thomas III, and I am testifying today on behalf of the National As-
                                                              sociation of Minority Contractors. We are a group that was formed
                                                              in 1969, and that makes us 52 years old and the oldest trade asso-
                                                              ciation representing minority contractors in the U.S. We have chap-
                                                              ters and affiliates all over the country, and we represent the inter-
                                                              ests of, not only our members, but the 100,000 minority contractors
                                                              across the United States right now.
                                                                 Now, the inclusion of minority contractors or DBEs, disadvan-
                                                              taged business enterprises, in the rebuilding of America’s infra-
                                                              structure is particularly important to ensuring that America is op-
                                                              erating at the full, productive capacity of its citizenry. Needless to
                                                              say, NAMC and minority contractors look very much forward to
                                                              playing a significant role in the upgrading of this nation’s infra-
                                                              structure.
                                                                 Now, my full testimony is already in the record, so I am not
                                                              going to repeat that, but I will summarize very quickly some of the
                                                              topics that we are interested in and why we are interested in it.
                                                                 First of all, we really are interested in this new plan because of
                                                              the benefits that it offers minority contractors. The federal infusion
                                                              of funds—of new funds to build roads, bridges, highways, airways,
                                                              et cetera, minority contractors are already involved in that. That
                                                              is what we do, but we need more of it. We need to build our capital
                                                              base so that we can do more.
                                                                 We have a vehicle right now through the U.S. Department of
                                                              Transportation, the DBE Program, the Disadvantaged Business
                                                              Enterprise Program, which requires 10 percent of the transpor-
                                                              tation project funds to be expended with disadvantaged business
                                                              enterprises.
                                                                 In order to make this new capital infusion work, we have got to
                                                              do better in the program. Right now, 23 of the 50 States are not
                                                              meeting the 10 percent floor, and we need—but we are very en-
                                                              couraged by the comments of Secretary Buttigieg.
                                                                 In a recent hearing that he testified in, he said he is going to
                                                              make this a much more robust program, that he is going to make
                                                              it a priority, and he is going to ensure that contractors, disadvan-
                                                              taged businesses, can do a wider range of contracts.
                                                                 Now, we are also interested in the workforce part of this infra-
                                                              structure plan. The DOT had a workforce element in it in 2017, but
                                                              for 2018, it doesn’t. And that has hurt us. It is said that for every
                                                              billion dollars that DOT spends on workforce development, that
                                                              13,000 jobs are created. So we are interested in that.
                                                                 We think that the impact of a successful program—a successful
                                                              DBE program that will get us more capital, will be good for ex-
                                                              panding, first of all, doing better—we can hire better people. We




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                                                              can make more investments on technology and equipment. We can
                                                              hire better people, and that has so much of a social impact in terms
                                                              of a happier group of people. You know, we can hire more people.
                                                                 So we look forward to working closely with, not only the DOT
                                                              and the Secretary, but also with this Committee to hammer out
                                                              any kinks that we see in implementing DBE inclusion in this new
                                                              infrastructure plan.
                                                                 Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Mr. Thomas. And we
                                                              appreciate your testimony, and we recognize that there is a fuller
                                                              set of that in the remarks that you submitted, to be revised and
                                                              extended.
                                                                 But let me just say, it is good to see you also. It has been many,
                                                              many years. And when you say it seems like decades, it is because
                                                              it was decades. It was the late eighties and the early nineties that
                                                              you would come before this Committee and others and give testi-
                                                              mony, and I was happy to be one of the Chairpersons and happy
                                                              always to receive it. Thank you, sir, very much for your remarks.
                                                                 I would like to now turn and yield to Mr. Bone, who has been
                                                              patiently waiting.
                                                                 Mr. Bone, you are recognized for 5 minutes, and you may feel
                                                              free to proceed.
                                                                                           STATEMENT OF JOSH BONE
                                                                 Mr. BONE. Thank you, Chairman Mfume and Ranking Member
                                                              Salazar, the Members of the Subcommittee, for inviting me to tes-
                                                              tify on behalf of ELECTRI International and the Electrical Con-
                                                              tractors Association, NECA. We greatly appreciate the opportunity
                                                              to submit a statement for the record to the Subcommittee on Con-
                                                              tracting and Infrastructure.
                                                                 My name is Josh Bone. I am the executive director of ELECTRI
                                                              International. ELECTRI is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization es-
                                                              tablished with support from NECA. Our mission is to help elec-
                                                              trical contractors, large and small, meet today’s demands and to-
                                                              morrow’s challenges by transforming our commission research into
                                                              useful education, talent-initiative programs, as well as practical
                                                              publications.
                                                                 The work for ELECTRI is simplified by NECA’s network of 4,000
                                                              contractor members consisting of nearly 3,200 small businesses.
                                                              NECA is the voice of a $170 billion electrical construction industry
                                                              that brings power, light, and communication technologies to build-
                                                              ings and communities across the U.S.
                                                                 ELECTRI, along with NECA, recognizes the key role small busi-
                                                              nesses will play in any infrastructure package. It cannot be stated
                                                              strongly enough, the infrastructure of this country is deteriorating.
                                                              Thankfully, Congress and the current administration have shown
                                                              a clear and urgent understanding of this need.
                                                                 To that end, we view the American Jobs Plan as a culmination
                                                              of generations’ worth of conversations on how to address our aging
                                                              and lacking infrastructure. That said, this plan is the first step of
                                                              many in moving the country forward.
                                                                 There is no question, after the volatility created by COVID-19
                                                              pandemic, small businesses must be prioritized by any infrastruc-
                                                              ture package. Across the construction industry, we have witnessed




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                                                              small contractors building their businesses around niche markets
                                                              to be more competitive, whether it be in areas like the creation of
                                                              microgrids, electrical vehicle charging stations, low-voltage tech-
                                                              nologies, or otherwise.
                                                                 Small contractors need to stay at the forefront of advancing tech-
                                                              nologies in order to remain competitive. Although this has yielded
                                                              positive growth for small businesses, many still face what seems to
                                                              be an insurmountable challenge: access to capital. The risks posed
                                                              by lack of capital is compounded with negative factors, such as de-
                                                              layed payment practices and fluctuating material costs.
                                                                 First and foremost, delays in payment are rampant in the con-
                                                              struction industry, especially to subcontractors. This has the capa-
                                                              bility of crippling small businesses that are unable to balance their
                                                              books and anticipate exposure for upcoming projects. Small con-
                                                              tractors need prompt payment support and enforcement when it
                                                              comes to working on larger projects like those identified by the
                                                              American Jobs Plan.
                                                                 In addition, the risk assumed by small business contractors can-
                                                              not be understated, with many subcontractors recounting stories of
                                                              offering their homes as collateral for various loans or bonding.
                                                                 The recent fluctuation in material costs has presented new chal-
                                                              lenges. The main concern for electrical contractors is the rising cost
                                                              of copper, which has increased nearly 90 percent since this time
                                                              last year.
                                                                 There is no denying that the broad federal investment offered by
                                                              the American Jobs Plan will not stretch as far when construction
                                                              materials cost exponentially more. To make matters worse, a small
                                                              business contractor typically holds their estimated price to a con-
                                                              tract owner for 90 days, while material suppliers hold that esti-
                                                              mate to their contractors for 7 to 10 days; in some cases, less.
                                                                 Many of our industry electrical contractors never stopped work-
                                                              ing throughout the pandemic. Because of this, our workforce de-
                                                              mands never slowed. Our industry must hire and train over
                                                              100,000 electricians to meet the workforce demands across the
                                                              country.
                                                                 The gold standard for meeting this need was established over 70
                                                              years ago by NECA and the IBEW. The National Joint Apprentice-
                                                              ship Training Program, the NJATC, today invests over $100 mil-
                                                              lion annually and receives no direct federal funding.
                                                                 The program’s rigorous training methods require 8,000 hours of
                                                              on-the-job training and 900 hours of classroom time, and this is
                                                              what it takes to create a qualified and capable journeyperson.
                                                                 In my time at ELECTRI, I have had the pleasure to travel this
                                                              country and meet the small business owners employing the men
                                                              and women of the electrical construction industry who should, and
                                                              hopefully will, be tasked with rebuilding this nation.
                                                                 In the face of constant risk, competition, and an overwhelming
                                                              workforce need, they come to work every day, striving to succeed.
                                                              Efforts like the American Jobs Plan and others proposed by Con-
                                                              gress offer these businesses a promising future.
                                                                 On behalf of ELECTRI International and NECA, I want to thank
                                                              you again for the opportunity to testify at this very important hear-
                                                              ing. I applaud the Committee’s unwavering efforts to support and
                                                              advocate for small businesses across the country.




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                                                                Thank you.
                                                                Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, sir.
                                                                I am going to ask staff to do not mute me unless I mute myself,
                                                              because trying to find the unmute button can be problematic, obvi-
                                                              ously, from time to time.
                                                                I am going to thank again and welcome Mrs. Mecias-Murphy for
                                                              being with us. I know the Ranking Member properly introduced
                                                              her, but I want to thank her.
                                                                It is always hard being the caboose on a train, but it is your
                                                              time, and we hope that you will proceed accordingly. You are recog-
                                                              nized for the next 5 minutes. Go right ahead.
                                                                                 STATEMENT OF ANNIE MECIAS-MURPHY
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Chairman Mfume, Ranking Member
                                                              Salazar, and Members of the U.S. House Small Business Sub-
                                                              committee on Contracting and Infrastructure, thank you so much
                                                              for holding this hearing on the utilization of small contractors in
                                                              the infrastructure plan and inviting me to be with you today.
                                                                 My name is Dr. Annie Mecias-Murphy, and I am the co-owner
                                                              and president of JA&M Developing Corp. We are a family-owned
                                                              construction business and contractor, performing work in the pri-
                                                              vate and public sectors, serving the south Florida market. JA&M
                                                              is a small- and women-owned business with 26 full-time employees.
                                                                 I am testifying today on behalf of the Associated Builders and
                                                              Contractors, a national construction industry trade association es-
                                                              tablished in 1950, that represents more than 21,000 members
                                                              across the country.
                                                                 I am currently on the ABC Florida East Coast Chapter board of
                                                              directors, serving as the treasurer.
                                                                 It is because of the construction industry that I am able to be
                                                              here to share my story with you today. I was born to immigrant
                                                              parents who chose to flee religious and political persecution by the
                                                              Cuban Government just 90 miles from Florida. It is because of
                                                              their bravery and a belief in greater freedom that I have the oppor-
                                                              tunities I do in this country, to own and operate a business in the
                                                              construction industry.
                                                                 When my father came to this country in 1969, he entered the
                                                              construction workforce with nothing except the clothes on his back.
                                                              Construction was part of our daily lives while I was growing up.
                                                                 While my initial focus was a career in education, eventually
                                                              earning my doctorate in philosophy and working in the teaching
                                                              and counseling field for close to 15 years, I assisted my father with
                                                              his construction company. However, it wasn’t until 2005 that my
                                                              siblings and I founded JA&M. It was then that our family came to-
                                                              gether to work full time in the construction industry.
                                                                 Today, I would like to share how a significant investment in
                                                              America’s infrastructure would impact my small business and
                                                              other businesses like mine in the construction industry.
                                                                 I also would like to provide a word of caution to the Sub-
                                                              committee and to urge Congress to avoid enacting restrictive poli-
                                                              cies referenced President Biden’s American Jobs Plan, like the Pro-
                                                              tecting the Right to Organize, or the PRO Act; government-man-
                                                              dated project labor agreements, or PLAs; and just a one-size-fits-
                                                              all approach to our workforce development. The inclusion of these




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                                                              policies and others like them would significantly limit the success
                                                              of any potential infrastructure bill, as they would prevent qualified
                                                              merit shop contractors from participating in rebuilding their com-
                                                              munities.
                                                                 Finally, I would also like to highlight the negative impact that
                                                              proposed tax increases from the majority in Congress and the
                                                              White House would have on small- and family-owned businesses.
                                                                 As a small business in the construction industry, an ongoing
                                                              challenge that we have is hiring the skilled workforce we need to
                                                              be competitive. And we are not alone, as there are hundreds of
                                                              thousands of open construction jobs right now.
                                                                 Any infrastructure proposal should make it easier for private em-
                                                              ployers to train tomorrow’s construction workforce through a vari-
                                                              ety of workforce development options, including industry-tested and
                                                              recognized craft training programs and registered apprenticeship
                                                              models.
                                                                 Unfortunately, President Biden’s American Jobs Plan urges Con-
                                                              gress to tie infrastructure investments funded under this plan to
                                                              the restrictive policies that I referenced before, which would limit
                                                              the pipeline of workers entering the industry.
                                                                 I would call on Congress to reject these policies as the current
                                                              shortage of workers would only be exasperated by an increase in
                                                              the money spent on infrastructure. Importantly, Congress must re-
                                                              alize that most small businesses in the construction industry are
                                                              not signatory to a construction union.
                                                                 These policies are likely to increase costs, reduce job creation, de-
                                                              crease the number of infrastructure projects, and discourage the
                                                              merit shop construction industry and their skilled local workforce
                                                              from competing for taxpayer-funded construction projects.
                                                                 I urge Congress to consider investing in America’s infrastructure
                                                              and ensuring that small construction businesses are not excluded
                                                              from the competitive bidding process for federal infrastructure
                                                              projects.
                                                                 While I do appreciate the conversation taking place and a public
                                                              commitment to infrastructure improvements, it is my under-
                                                              standing that only a small percentage of the funds in the American
                                                              Jobs Plan are allocated toward the construction of physical infra-
                                                              structure.
                                                                 The construction industry can help lead America’s economic re-
                                                              surgence, and Congress should not allow this to become a missed
                                                              opportunity.
                                                                 So in conclusion, construction is an industry that gave my family
                                                              its start. It was our shining light of opportunity, and continues to
                                                              provide for my family and my employees.
                                                                 It has been an industry that has allowed us also to give back,
                                                              to improve the life of others, and to become a supporting role in
                                                              our local community. The industry has responded to the skilled
                                                              work shortage by increasing wage rates and improving benefit
                                                              packages.
                                                                 In Florida, we are fortunate to participate in partnerships be-
                                                              tween the Associated Builders and Contractors and groups like the
                                                              Boys and Girls Clubs where we can speak to students about the
                                                              benefits of a career in construction.




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                                                                 Through an all-of-the-above approach to pre-apprenticeship and
                                                              apprenticeship programs, we continue to work to expand the num-
                                                              bers of people educated and upskilled in the trades.
                                                                 The American Dream and construction industry, they go to-
                                                              gether. It is through construction that we can provide for our fam-
                                                              ily, create jobs for workers, and give back to our communities.
                                                                 If enacted, I cannot imagine what this plan would mean for all
                                                              the families that depend on JA&M, let alone all the millions of
                                                              families around the country that depend on small business for their
                                                              survival.
                                                                 I plead with you to help us preserve the construction industry for
                                                              the next generation. Without you, there may not be a future for
                                                              countless potential craft professionals.
                                                                 I thank you for your time and consideration of this testimony as
                                                              a representation of a small, merit shop contractor, and I look for-
                                                              ward to answering any questions you may have.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Mrs. Mecias-Murphy.
                                                              I appreciate your comments. And the fact that we have divergent
                                                              views on this bill that all of us are looking forward hopefully to the
                                                              same bright future, a future with good results, is what drives this
                                                              committee.
                                                                 This is really sausage-making in the process, so it is not pretty,
                                                              but we will find a way to make the sausage hopefully, eventually,
                                                              and to deliver something very important on infrastructure.
                                                                 I want to thank all of you who have shared your time with us.
                                                              And I want to begin the questioning by recognizing myself for 5
                                                              minutes.
                                                                 And I would like to start with Ms. Ohrenberg. I read in your tes-
                                                              timony that a single million dollar contract is different from 40
                                                              $25,000 contracts. Now, they both equate to the same dollar
                                                              amount.
                                                                 My assumption is, and I hope you can expand on this, that there
                                                              are inherent benefits in wielding million dollar contracts for small
                                                              businesses that sometimes people in the larger society may not un-
                                                              derstand and what that does to enhance the growth of a small
                                                              business, as opposed to 40 $25,000 contracts that you referenced.
                                                                 Ms. OHRENBERG. Correct. So one single project is going to re-
                                                              quire, from an internal office staff, a project manager. So if you
                                                              break those all up into 40 different contracts, you have to have 40
                                                              different project managers.
                                                                 It takes as much resources, from an office perspective, to manage
                                                              one $25,000 project as it does a million dollar project, from an ac-
                                                              counting, from project management, superintendents. So if we have
                                                              to divide our staff up against 40 jobs instead of just one job, then
                                                              we have to have 40 times more staff, and that is very difficult for
                                                              a small business to be able to staff that many types of projects.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. And does it enhance bonding requirements?
                                                              Does it create, in addition to that, a better perception with primes
                                                              or with the government?
                                                                 I am just trying to get to the heart of understanding all of it. I
                                                              do recognize the need to hire a bunch of different people for project
                                                              management, but are there some inherent benefits there also?




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                                                                 Ms. OHRENBERG. A $25,000 project is not likely going to re-
                                                              quire a bond, but a larger one would. So you would be building
                                                              your bonding capacity by having larger projects.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you.
                                                                 And, Mr. Thomas, if I can come to you, I want to go specifically
                                                              to Amtrak and to kind of get your experience that you have had
                                                              representing contracting opportunities with Amtrak. They are set
                                                              to get quite a bit of support under this program. Can you talk
                                                              about that for just a moment?
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. [Inaudible.]
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. I think you are muted.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Thank you. Thank you. So I said all that for noth-
                                                              ing. No. Oh, well.
                                                                 What I mean is, you know, I was executive director of this orga-
                                                              nization in the eighties, in 1985. And there was a big, big project
                                                              with Amtrak, $2.2 billion to our project, and we had DBEs on the
                                                              contract, a lot of our members. And a study was done to test the
                                                              effectiveness, and, you know, it was a great report. It was docu-
                                                              mented that we performed within budget and on time. The goal
                                                              was 15 percent. The actual action was 17.8 percent. We got very
                                                              good reviews, and that is what you can do when you have the lead-
                                                              ership.
                                                                 The leadership at the time of Amtrak and DOT, they were com-
                                                              mitted to the project, and it did well. The excuses like, ‘‘we can’t
                                                              find them,’’ was just not made available. And so if we can have
                                                              that same kind of commitment today, I think we can have the
                                                              same results.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. So was the ‘‘we can’t find them’’ statement
                                                              meaning, we can’t find minority contractors qualified?
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Exactly. Well, it is the same excuse that we have
                                                              heard since I have been involved in the business, and it is not
                                                              something that can’t be resolved. You know, they used to do the
                                                              same thing at NASA. You know, at NASA, it is the most techno-
                                                              logical agency that there is probably in the world. And we also got
                                                              those excuses until we came up with a solution that worked for a
                                                              while.
                                                                 We would measure—we would get the needs of the prime con-
                                                              tractors, what they said they needed, and we would send them to
                                                              our list of contractors, of small, disadvantaged business contrac-
                                                              tors. And they would send their qualifications to these prime con-
                                                              tractors in the form that they ask it to be presented, and that re-
                                                              solved that problem right away.
                                                                 At one point for one project, they told us to stop sending them,
                                                              you know, so——
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Okay.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS.—so they are there. You can—you know, if you do
                                                              it right, you know, you will get the right person.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Okay. Maybe we can come back to that. My
                                                              time has expired.
                                                                 Mr. Bone and Mrs. Murphy, perhaps in the second round, I will
                                                              have an opportunity to pose a question to both of you. But right
                                                              now, I am going to yield to the Ranking Member, Ms. Salazar of
                                                              Florida, who is recognized now for 5 minutes.




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                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I am
                                                              very happy that you are willing to invite the other side of the aisle,
                                                              the minority party, to create the sausage. So we really want to
                                                              make it big, fat, and good for everybody to eat.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Okay.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. So I wanted to, first of all, recognize Mrs. Mecias
                                                              and thank you once again for being here with us. I have a couple
                                                              of questions, and I also, within my 5 minutes, I would like to ask
                                                              the other witnesses or the other guests.
                                                                 You know, Mrs. Mecias, that the Biden administration is pro-
                                                              posing to favor unionized workers over nonunionized workers. In
                                                              other words, the people that are not part of a union could be dis-
                                                              criminated by people like you in the construction industry.
                                                                 So I would like you to explain to us, give me an example, what
                                                              would this look like for a small business entrepreneur, minority-
                                                              oriented company like yours. What would this look like if this part
                                                              of the provision were to be accepted?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Thank you, Representative Salazar. It
                                                              pretty—what it does to my company, in particular, and a lot of
                                                              small businesses, it basically completely takes us out from being
                                                              able to bid, from the opportunities to be able to bid on any one of
                                                              these projects. Most than 80 percent of the workforce is nonunion.
                                                              We are a merit shop company, and therefore, we wouldn’t even
                                                              qualify at all.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. That bad?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Yes.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. All right. Now, what about the other side? You
                                                              know that your company is a very good example for what you ex-
                                                              plained to us the other day, that under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act,
                                                              that truly helped people like you and your employees, and one of
                                                              them, you were explaining to us, that was able to purchase their
                                                              first home because of the extra cash in their pocket, thanks to that
                                                              law.
                                                                 Now, if we see the opposite happening and you see, as you men-
                                                              tioned in your statements, that there is the possibility of taxes in-
                                                              creasing, give me, once again, a scenario, what would that look
                                                              like? What would that be—what type of effect will that have in a
                                                              small business, minority owner, entrepreneur like you are?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So, first of all, I would just like to ex-
                                                              plain, the excitement that comes across my desk when I get an em-
                                                              ployee verification form, which has not just been one, it has been
                                                              close to four employees that have purchased their first home, and
                                                              that to us is just super exciting.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. That is the American Dream.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Yes, yes. What would—I mean, we
                                                              have been able to give health insurance benefits and 401 benefits
                                                              for the first time since our company opened. We weren’t able to do
                                                              that before. And actually give higher bonuses.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Okay.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. If this tax increase were to occur, we
                                                              most likely would have to let go some of our employees, and I am
                                                              not sure if we would be able to offer the incentives that they so
                                                              well deserve if——




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                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you. I am going to cut you off because I
                                                              want to—we got your answer. But I want to go to Ms. Sheila and
                                                              Mr. Ralph Thomas.
                                                                 Just briefly, we sponsored, along with other Members of the
                                                              Committee, a bill, H.R. 3065, the Expanding Contracting Opportu-
                                                              nities for Small Business Act. And this bipartisan bill—and I am
                                                              very proud to be part of it—would praise the maximum threshold
                                                              for sole source from $5 million to $8 million for general contracts
                                                              and from $7 million to $10 million for manufacturing contracts.
                                                              What do you think about this, this initiative?
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Are you addressing me first?
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Yes, sir, absolutely. We have 45 seconds. You can
                                                              have it all.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Okay. Well—so, well, that—well, a lot of the
                                                              smaller businesses would love that, you know, in terms of because
                                                              it would create more opportunities. If you make the sole source
                                                              higher, then that means there will be more competition. So the
                                                              smaller companies would like that as well as the—you know, we
                                                              have a problem with manufacturing businesses, but, you know, in
                                                              terms of—there is a shortage of them. But for those that exist, I
                                                              am sure they would prefer the ability to do more work. And the
                                                              higher the sole source limit is, then they can compete for more
                                                              projects.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you.
                                                                 I yield back. My time is up. I will talk to you later on today. I
                                                              have a couple of other questions, but my time is up.
                                                                 Yield back to you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. [Inaudible.]
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Mr. Chairman, I think you are on mute.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Okay. Thank you.
                                                                 I am going to make my second request to staff, do not mute me.
                                                              Allow me to mute and unmute myself. It is hard sometimes locat-
                                                              ing the button I need. I don’t know if I can be any clearer than
                                                              that.
                                                                 Thank you very much for yielding back, Ms. Salazar.
                                                                 The Chair would like to recognize the distinguished gentlewoman
                                                              from Illinois, Ms. Newman, to proceed for the next 5 minutes. Go
                                                              right ahead, please.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Well, thank you, Chairman Mfume, and thank
                                                              you, Ranking Member Salazar. Good to see everybody today. I hope
                                                              everybody is enjoying the summer.
                                                                 I thought I would start by congratulating everyone, all of our
                                                              guests. You have all been through a heck of a year and really came
                                                              out on top, so congratulations.
                                                                 Mrs. Mecias-Murphy, I have run a couple small businesses, so
                                                              God bless, and thank you for employing folks. And we all have had
                                                              challenges but excited to move forward.
                                                                 I did want to correct the record on a couple comments that were
                                                              made. So I sit on the T&I Committee, and I am from the labor
                                                              movement. I am a former small business owner, ran a couple of
                                                              companies, as well as was a management consultant to both For-
                                                              tune 500 companies down to sole proprietor, so the whole spectrum
                                                              of folks, right, and got in the muck of it with process and ops and
                                                              facilities and on and on and on.




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                                                                 So, with all that, I just wanted to come back to you. At 4:15 this
                                                              morning, we finished the Surface Transportation Act, which is sep-
                                                              arate from the American Jobs Act.
                                                                 So I wanted to tell you—Annie, Sheila, Ralph, and Josh—that we
                                                              have a robust, over $500 billion plus act that is separate from the
                                                              American Jobs Act, which will include fixing bridges, fixing roads,
                                                              and making sure that housing goes up well, and that things are
                                                              funded across our nation that are civic infrastructure projects. So
                                                              look forward to that and enjoying all of that. I am excited the jobs
                                                              that that will produce.
                                                                 Now, the American Families Act, let’s just do a quick fact-check
                                                              on that, because we just got a fact sheet on that, so why don’t we
                                                              just share a little bit about that.
                                                                 So in the American Jobs Act, it includes housing, as well as tran-
                                                              sit agencies, rail, fixing roads and bridges, civic infrastructure, ret-
                                                              rograde housing, and on and on and on. So it is an infrastructure
                                                              bill, largely, and a jobs bill. I just wanted to clear that up for every-
                                                              body.
                                                                 So moving on, also with regard to the PRO Act, so given that I
                                                              have been actively involved in 30 years and have worked with over
                                                              50 municipalities in this nation, around labor movements, I just
                                                              want to assure you, Mrs. Mecias-Murphy, that in no town of those
                                                              50 did we have any negativity attached to PLAs and that kind of
                                                              thing. In fact, the exact opposite happened.
                                                                 In right-to-work—in those 33 right-to-work—or States, rather,
                                                              actually, the health incomes go down, incomes go down, the overall
                                                              income and tax income in a State goes down in all 33. So I just
                                                              wanted to clear that up for everybody.
                                                                 Now, Ralph, I have a couple questions for you. I am very excited
                                                              about what you said. I love workforce training. So wanted to find
                                                              out, can you share—by the way, congratulations on 52 years, way
                                                              to go. Can you share a little bit about what would be helpful to you
                                                              in terms of workforce training and development immediately to
                                                              help your organization?
                                                                 I loved your NASA analogy, and I am very well aware of how
                                                              that program works, so tell us more about what you would like to
                                                              see happen.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. [Inaudible.]
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Ooh, you are on mute, Mr. Thomas.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Okay. How is that?
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Great.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Yes, yes. Well, the first thing has already hap-
                                                              pened. I mean, what we see—I don’t know if this is in the program
                                                              that you just agreed to——
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Yeah.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS.—but we were happy to see projected more funds
                                                              for workforce development. Because we have to draw upon—and we
                                                              have to have it be diverse, because those are the employees that
                                                              we are dependent upon to draw from. And where there is no move
                                                              toward workforce development—and I don’t think there has been in
                                                              DOT since 2017 when it wasn’t re-funded——
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Yep.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS.—that leaves us in a bind, because where are we
                                                              going to get the people from, you know. And so we would like to




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                                                              see that. We would like to always be involved in that, in terms of
                                                              apprenticeships, in terms of—we like to be involved in the ground
                                                              floor, so that we can determine, you know, what the fields are that
                                                              are going to be developed so that we can, you know, get our folks
                                                              into those programs, into those programs and graduated from those
                                                              programs. I mean, because that provides the best—workforce devel-
                                                              opment provides the best training that I am aware of, so——
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. We are at the end of our time. And Mr. Mfume,
                                                              if I may at this time at the end, I would love a couple more ques-
                                                              tions if you have time. Thank you.
                                                                 And I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. Gentle-
                                                              woman yields back.
                                                                 The Chair would like to recognize the distinguished gentleman
                                                              from Minnesota, Mr. Hagedorn.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And I
                                                              know it is not your decision, but I think we have a solution to this
                                                              mute/unmute issue and it is, let’s start meeting in person, again,
                                                              and doing our job in Washington in our Committee room. You
                                                              know, we are watching NHL and NBA games played indoors with
                                                              10-, 20,000 people. I think we can squeeze 30 or 40 into a Com-
                                                              mittee room and do our job in person. That is just my opinion.
                                                                 Of course, I support infrastructure—roads, bridges, locks, dams,
                                                              trucks, rail, and pipelines. And I think, actually, the majority
                                                              might have to explain to us how they are for infrastructure, but
                                                              they want to shut down things like Keystone Pipeline. But that is
                                                              very important to our district in southern Minnesota, infrastruc-
                                                              ture. I am all for it. We have farmers that need to move their
                                                              grain. We have the Mayo clinic and other institutions of medicine
                                                              that receive samples and tissues from all around the world every
                                                              day. Small businesses and manufacturers, of course, depend upon
                                                              infrastructure and transportation to do their businesses and, hope-
                                                              fully, we can get together and have a bipartisan bill in order to
                                                              focus on those types of things.
                                                                 So Dr. Mecias-Murphy, I am going to throw out a couple of ideas
                                                              about how we can have some good government policies moving for-
                                                              ward, and maybe you can address them. One is the in the area of
                                                              the labor shortage. Some Members of Congress in my State, includ-
                                                              ing Representatives Emmer, Stauber, Fischbach, and myself have
                                                              written Governor Walz and said, you need to forego that extra $300
                                                              a week federal unemployment compensation and get back to reg-
                                                              ular order when someone doesn’t seek work or they refuse work
                                                              outright, they lose their benefits. They lose that compensation. You
                                                              need to push them into the workforce. That is the first idea.
                                                                 The second is, a bill that I have introduced, the American Work-
                                                              force Empowerment Act, H.R. 2691, which would enable families to
                                                              use 529 savings accounts for people not just to go to 4-year college,
                                                              but also go to vocational school and get certificates, go do those pro-
                                                              grams, and get into the trades and purchase equipment and tools
                                                              and things like that which would be necessary. We think that
                                                              would be good to help our skilled workforce.
                                                                 What are your thoughts about those two ideas?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So you have just hit an area aside from
                                                              construction that is just something that I am super passionate




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                                                              about. Our involvement and our partnership with the Boys and
                                                              Girls Clubs and ABC allows us to work on apprenticeship level be-
                                                              cause, as you know, kids in middle school and high school, they are
                                                              not always being said, Hey, the trades are a viable option. It is
                                                              something that can really work for you and can give you a good liv-
                                                              ing. It is a good first option.
                                                                So what we have been able to do is able to go into the Boys and
                                                              Girls Club, have different trades, different member companies from
                                                              ABC go in there and be able to show and expose the students. I
                                                              know not everybody has had the privilege to be able to see on a
                                                              daily basis growing up what the construction industry is like, but
                                                              going into these clubs and working with the middle and high school
                                                              students and being able to expose them, taking them on field trips,
                                                              providing internships for them has allotted exposure to them.
                                                                And over the last couple of years, there has actually been close
                                                              to 40 students that have graduated, and have actually been hired
                                                              with some of our member companies. An example, actually, is a
                                                              crane company. An 18-year-old just to start training was paid $20
                                                              an hour. And that is just to start training. And as they went up,
                                                              a crane operator can make high as $30, $40 an hour, depending on
                                                              their experience.
                                                                So anything that is going to help that aspect, especially with the
                                                              pre-apprenticeship, it is a little bit longer piece. But we have also
                                                              extended it to the family, to the parents of these kids that may not
                                                              have jobs that could actually start on the labor level, and labor
                                                              level starts at the $15 an hour.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. That is great. I have to reclaim my time——
                                                                Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So sorry about that.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN.—and I appreciate that very much what you
                                                              are doing. I would also like to point out that we talked a little bit
                                                              about—the witnesses did—about material cost and copper was
                                                              mentioned. And I think, you know, one of the things that goes on,
                                                              we are driving up the cost of things because they are in short sup-
                                                              ply, because the environmentalists, extremists won’t let us go and
                                                              get the copper and things like that in America.
                                                                In Congressman Stauber’s district, he is on this call right now,
                                                              up in northern Minnesota, they have a large supply of the nickel
                                                              and copper for the United States right up there, but he is having
                                                              a hard time, you know, getting through and getting those mines
                                                              open.
                                                                So I just want to commend Congressman Stauber for fighting for
                                                              his constituents and getting mining in America going. I certainly
                                                              support you, Congressman Stauber, every step of the way. O thank
                                                              you for what you are doing.
                                                                I yield back.
                                                                Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields
                                                              back.
                                                                The Chair recognizes, ironically, Mr. Stauber, for the next 5 min-
                                                              utes. Feel free to proceed. Thank you.
                                                                Mr. STAUBER. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. And there are times
                                                              I have trouble with my mute button too, so if we can be in the
                                                              same class. I appreciate Mr. Chair and our Ranking Member for
                                                              holding this important meeting. I also want to thank the witnesses




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                                                              for being part of the discussion. Your success and your conversa-
                                                              tions are very vital to all of us as we craft good legislation.
                                                                 Line 3 is a 340-mile pipeline replacement taking place in north-
                                                              ern Minnesota. Construction of the new Line 3 will not only help
                                                              in our efforts for energy independence, but will supply countless
                                                              jobs to small contractors in an area desperate for economic develop-
                                                              ment and modernize our energy infrastructure for the future.
                                                                 This project should be celebrated, yet just this week, thousands
                                                              of dangerous protesters, led by Democrat Party stalwarts like Jane
                                                              Fonda, are being bussed in from Hollywood and other coastal elite
                                                              cities and are causing harm to small contractors seeking to simply
                                                              do their jobs. In fact, nearly 50 union workers had to be evacuated
                                                              from their work site, including employees of the entire Native
                                                              American-owned and operated pipeline contractor Gordon Con-
                                                              struction.
                                                                 Dr. Mecias-Murphy, could you describe the danger and damage
                                                              that protesters would pose to your construction business if they
                                                              showed up to your sites and chained themselves to equipment,
                                                              punctured tires, damaged windshields, and other equipment? What
                                                              would that do to your small business?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Thank you, Representative Stauber, for
                                                              that question.
                                                                 First of all, when I read about that, I—it just truly really surged
                                                              in me just so much concern, and my heart really went out to that
                                                              business. If that would have happened to our business, first of all,
                                                              with safety being such an important and critical factor that for our
                                                              employees and for everyone around us, the first thing, obviously,
                                                              that would have come to mind is the concern for safety by these
                                                              protesters having gone in, having trespassed, having damaged
                                                              property, and having tied themselves to this equipment. But put-
                                                              ting that piece aside to a small business, I think folks might not
                                                              realize that sometimes a day of delay or just that—that the woman
                                                              is saying, Oh, it is just a day; it is not a big deal. In the construc-
                                                              tion industry with so many overlapping pieces and parts of the puz-
                                                              zle, that can delay you 2 weeks, 4 weeks. And what that does, espe-
                                                              cially for a small business, is that in your cash flow, you are having
                                                              to pay for all these different things, putting them up to speed to
                                                              try to have them work where they need to be back to the time that
                                                              you lost.
                                                                 And, then, not only that, put aside the small business piece, you
                                                              have workers that can’t go into work. You have then workers who
                                                              can’t get paid because they aren’t working. Their families aren’t
                                                              getting fed or paying their bills. You have done a domino effect
                                                              where maybe folks have been trying to prove a point. What they
                                                              have actually done is hurt the people that they are saying that
                                                              they are trying to help. They are affecting families and commu-
                                                              nities.
                                                                 Mr. STAUBER. So what I hear you saying is, it is devastating
                                                              for the small company; it is devastating for the workers; it is dev-
                                                              astating for the families, and it is devastating for the communities?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Absolutely. Yes, sir.
                                                                 Mr. STAUBER. Thank you. Thank you. To me it is actually
                                                              laughable to me that we are here today to discuss Joe Biden’s in-
                                                              frastructure plan, and how it will, quote, help small contractors.




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                                                              President Biden and his administration canceled thousands of jobs
                                                              already on the Keystone XL Pipeline earlier this year, in fact, with-
                                                              in 5 hours of his inauguration.
                                                                 It is the actions of this administration that empowers these ac-
                                                              tivists currently doing damage in my district and others through-
                                                              out the country.
                                                                 If President Biden wants to demonstrate that he is serious about
                                                              America’s infrastructure future, he will call on these activists to
                                                              stop their protesting at once so that our small contractors can get
                                                              back to work.
                                                                 And I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. The gentleman yields back.
                                                                 The Chair is deciding to do a second round and unless we are
                                                              joined by other members, it should probably go faster than the first
                                                              round, but I would like to begin and recognize myself for 5 minutes
                                                              and go to Mr. Bone.
                                                                 Mr. Bone, do recruitment strategies change based on the seg-
                                                              ment of the population that you are trying to attract? And I appre-
                                                              ciate all the work that you are doing with ELECTRI. Can you tell
                                                              us what strategies would you recommend in this bill as it goes for-
                                                              ward to recruit men—women, I should say, and minorities at a bet-
                                                              ter and higher rate than we have previously done?
                                                                 Mr. BONE. Absolutely. Thank you, Chairman Mfume. Yes, to be
                                                              successful, you have to use different methods to recruit. For me, I
                                                              have had the privilege in my career to work more closely with mi-
                                                              norities and women in construction as a construction technologist.
                                                              A lot of the thought leaders in the industry that have adopted new
                                                              technologies have had that opportunity in our industry. So—and
                                                              today, one of the things I have found for women in the industry,
                                                              is they bring a lot of great skill sets, and there is a lot of new tech-
                                                              nologies that enable them and empower them to work in this in-
                                                              dustry. I think there is a lot of misconceptions around the fact that
                                                              this industry is a male-driven industry. And we need to start at
                                                              early ages educating young girls in middle school, high school, and
                                                              even in the community and technical colleges, that this industry is
                                                              changing. We are adopting technology.
                                                                 What once was a very strenuous job today with exoskeletons and
                                                              equipment, and moving work off-site looks more like a manufac-
                                                              turing floor today on any—for a lot of these companies. So we are
                                                              doing a lot more off-site construction to help us deliver projects on
                                                              time and within budget.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you, Mr. Bone. And no matter what
                                                              kind of a bill we come up with, the electrical construction industry
                                                              is going to be significantly impacted.
                                                                 Mr. BONE. Absolutely.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Can you take a minute to talk about the im-
                                                              portance of unions in electrical construction and throughout that
                                                              industry?
                                                                 Mr. BONE. Yes. Now, ELECTRI is not affiliated with any
                                                              unions, but our friends at NECA have worked closely with IBEW
                                                              labor partners for over a 100 years without a single strike. So
                                                              NECA and our contractors take great pride in the skill level and
                                                              commitment of the workforce that we bring to the table.




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                                                                 I just, last week, was in Jacksonville, Florida, visiting a JTC that
                                                              had opened up a new systems integrator lab that takes these new
                                                              technologies, provides hands-on training installing new tech-
                                                              nologies like that are linked to software that connect sensors and
                                                              intelligent equipment that can help us invest in infrastructure that
                                                              is more sustainable, and it creates new types of skills and jobs that
                                                              are—that we can use for many years going forward.
                                                                 So it makes our—for small businesses that get involved with this
                                                              it provides an opportunity for them to create jobs that have long-
                                                              lasting impact to their small businesses.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you, sir.
                                                                 And Mr. Thomas, I want to slightly change the conversation and
                                                              go from the electrical industry back over to transportation. We
                                                              don’t know what is going to eventually come out of this Committee,
                                                              out of this Congress, but we hope that we are going to have a bill,
                                                              and whatever that bill is, I would like for you, based on your expe-
                                                              rience and counseling in serving small firms across the country,
                                                              what is, in your opinion, the biggest obstacle going forward that
                                                              has to be addressed in that bill to increase participation by minori-
                                                              ties in transportation projects.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Yes. We have to take a stronger approach to com-
                                                              pliance and enforcement. As I said, we have a 10 percent goal floor
                                                              for all the States, and 23 percent are not meeting it. Many of them
                                                              ask for waivers and, you know, whatnot, and, you know, by saying
                                                              they are not there. What we need to do is find something that, you
                                                              know—I think a lot of organizations like those here should be fund-
                                                              ed, to some extent, for the purpose of identifying eligible small con-
                                                              tractors, whether they be minority, or women, or otherwise dis-
                                                              advantaged, to identify them for the prime contractors and the
                                                              agencies.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you.
                                                                 Mr. THOMAS. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. I am almost at the
                                                              end of my time.
                                                                 I do want to get over to Ms. Mecias-Murphy one more time and
                                                              ask, what role do you think, Ms. Murphy, that the SBA contracting
                                                              programs and DBE Program ought to play now as we obviously
                                                              move toward infrastructure, but also, as we see businesses trying
                                                              to recover from this year-long pandemic? Any thoughts on those
                                                              lines?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. From hearing the conversations, I
                                                              would say that it is just making sure that whatever laws are in
                                                              place and goals, that they are followed.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Okay. I appreciate it. At some point in time,
                                                              maybe not here, but later, I would like to get all of you to comment
                                                              on the Prompt Payment Act and what prompt payment has done,
                                                              and is not doing with respect to small businesses, but my time is
                                                              expired.
                                                                 So let me, again, recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Salazar, of
                                                              Florida.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I think my
                                                              next question is for Mr. Bone. I was following your testimony, and
                                                              I am also very concerned, as you are, about the delays in payments
                                                              to subcontractors. I mean, if you don’t get the money, you may go




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                                                              under in a month or two. And I would like for you to expand a lit-
                                                              tle bit more on your suggestion regarding sending payment notices
                                                              and getting paid on time, if you can expand on that a little bit fur-
                                                              ther.
                                                                 Mr. BONE. Absolutely. Capital is king in the construction indus-
                                                              try. It is how businesses survive, and small contractors have lim-
                                                              ited amounts of capital. And what we have to ensure that when
                                                              you are a sub to a sub to a sub, and that happens very frequently
                                                              in these flow down policies on the larger projects that it becomes
                                                              even tougher to get paid.
                                                                 So the ability to fund your business and work off that capital to
                                                              pay your people is extremely tough for the smaller businesses that
                                                              flow down in that work. So the larger contracts that do sub out to
                                                              these small arsenal of contractors, it makes it much tougher for
                                                              them.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. So what do you suggest? What can we do in order
                                                              to help that sub of the sub of the sub, the one that has the small
                                                              business, entrepreneur that has three employees and needs that
                                                              money right away?
                                                                 Mr. BONE. We need to have opportunities to work with contracts
                                                              directly with those that are paying. So that it doesn’t have to go
                                                              through the process of a general contractor through the sub and
                                                              working back up through that flow. Representative Salazar, that is
                                                              the challenge that we face. So if it is—if we are waiting on pay if
                                                              paid or paid when paid, that language is what impacts our small
                                                              contractors more than anything else. We need to have the ability,
                                                              once we can prove we have done the work in a fair way, that the
                                                              contracts can ensure that our small contractors are being paid
                                                              promptly.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. And I would like to ask the same question to Ms.
                                                              Mecias. Just give me a scenario, an anecdote, where you have felt
                                                              exactly what Mr. Bone is describing?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Absolutely. You have the—especially
                                                              on federal contracts, you have a paid when paid clause and some-
                                                              times it is 60, 90, 120 days. And for a small business, that is com-
                                                              pletely detrimental. You have—I think in Florida, the sunshine—
                                                              there is Prompt Payment Act and the whole piece is that you get
                                                              paid promptly, but it is more of a theory than really a practice.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. A reality. Uh-huh. So, in which way Congress
                                                              could help that very small business owner get paid on time in a
                                                              fair fashion, the way that it needs to be done? Because from what
                                                              I am understanding here is that someone is taking advantage of
                                                              the small guy. So in which way—and specifically minority business
                                                              owners, that I am sure don’t have the protections that the big gen-
                                                              eral contractors have, so what can we do with the last—we have
                                                              a minute and a half, so I will yield to you.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So I can only speak from personal ex-
                                                              perience and my personal experience, usually the contractors that
                                                              I have worked with, we will get paid within 5 days of payment. So,
                                                              it is not on that end. Unfortunately, it is on the whole paperwork
                                                              bureaucratic component that gets stuck up on that level.
                                                                 Again, I am not at the time one with all the answers, but prob-
                                                              ably a quicker way of going through those leaps and hurdles and
                                                              trying to be a little bit more considering the small business, and




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                                                              the businesses and realizing that the quicker they are able to do
                                                              that processing, and be conscientious of that, and having a certain
                                                              timeline to do that, realize how big it really affects small busi-
                                                              nesses. And that really draws up the cost, because any federal
                                                              project that you know you are going to bid, you realize that you
                                                              have that in the back of your mind, that I am not going to get paid
                                                              for 60 or 90 days. So it does drive up the cost to the taxpayer as
                                                              well.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. I see. Very good point. Thank you.
                                                                 I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much. Gentlewoman’s time
                                                              has expired.
                                                                 I want to recognize Ms. Newman, but Ms. Newman, if you would
                                                              hold on for just a second. This whole issue of prompt payment,
                                                              which I think Mr. Bone referenced that we should just follow exist-
                                                              ing laws on this, underscores an important point. In 1996, when
                                                              the regs were written on this, enter the Prompt Payment Act. Any
                                                              agency that fails to pay within the required time would be liable
                                                              for the delinquent payment. So obviously if we know that the big-
                                                              gest hurdle and detriment to Black businesses, Latino businesses,
                                                              Asian businesses, women businesses is the lack of access to capital
                                                              and credit, prompt payment does play an extremely crucial role,
                                                              and it is maybe something that the full Committee on Small Busi-
                                                              ness decides to look at, and if not, I could try to find some way for
                                                              us to be able to do that, because it is a law that just has to be en-
                                                              forced.
                                                                 I am going to stop my filibuster, since I am on the House side
                                                              anyway, and yield to the distinguished gentlewoman from Illinois,
                                                              Ms. Newman, and thank her for hanging around to the end.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Well, thank you for putting together this great
                                                              conversation today, and, Chair Mfume, I will gladly volunteer to
                                                              work with you on that topic. I am a big fan of paying people on
                                                              time, and having it be predictable. I am seeing a thumbs up from
                                                              my friend, Ms. Salazar. So maybe all three of us could get together
                                                              and have a coffee over that. So look forward to that.
                                                                 Couple of things—first of all, Mr. Bone, thank you so much for
                                                              highlighting that. I think that is critical. But this goes—this, actu-
                                                              ally, proves my point about PLA. So interestingly—this is a fun lit-
                                                              tle data point—is that more than 80 percent of the time when there
                                                              is a PLA in place, that it requires whoever is engaged in the party
                                                              system, so whether there is a subcontractor, a contractor, a fran-
                                                              chiser, whatever it is, it requires a very specific payment chro-
                                                              nology and cadence on top of that federal law Mr. Mfume has
                                                              talked about.
                                                                 So PLAs are really good at enforcing those types of things, par-
                                                              ticularly when there is a union involved. And, by the way, I might
                                                              remind everybody that when you have a PLA, it doesn’t prevent
                                                              you from having nonunion help, it just requires and protects those
                                                              that are engaged in unions, and so that they have better benefits
                                                              and pay, et cetera, and that is safer.
                                                                 I also might add on PLA-based construction sites that more than
                                                              60 percent of those engagements, whether it is a GC contractor or
                                                              PLA/GC contractor, it is usually somewhere in the range of 66 (ph)
                                                              to 65 percent safer, there are fewer accidents, people are paid on




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                                                              time, and they tend to be not be overbudget, and they tend to be
                                                              on-time projects. So I understand there is some confusion around
                                                              PLAs, but it is not the boogie man as was suggested.
                                                                 So I guess I am going to turn it over to Ms. Mecias-Murphy and
                                                              tell me the top three things that frustrate you about PLAs.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Sure, Representative Newman. Thank
                                                              you for the opportunity to speak on that. I would say the biggest
                                                              part—it is not really that we are, you know, that I am antiunion
                                                              by any means; it is just basically that a lot of the mandates they
                                                              are not as good. They restrict someone like a merit shop company
                                                              to be able to bid on certain projects if these things aren’t in place.
                                                              That is number one. We just want fair all across the board.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Uh-huh.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Not—to this day, we are still in a coun-
                                                              try that is free, and, you know, we could pick whether we want to
                                                              be part of a union or not.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Sure.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So with that being said, a high concern
                                                              is, especially as the Representative from Minnesota had mentioned,
                                                              and that concern, there is new possible concerns regarding these
                                                              labor union—again, I don’t want to get into all the weeds piece. I
                                                              want to kind of stay very——
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Yeah. I—just to be clear, I just need—so I
                                                              haven’t—the first reason why PLA is bad. So if you can go back to
                                                              your first reason.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So the noncompetitive. Not being able
                                                              to compete—being able to be on a fair playing field as far as it re-
                                                              lates to this proposed bill. The second one, and with that is the
                                                              missed opportunities. The second one is if there is a—if there is a
                                                              project and there is a protest under this new act, even though it
                                                              may not deal with me as a subcontractor, those labor unions can
                                                              actually go on any one of my jobs and actually do that as well. And
                                                              that is a concern because that can really hurt my company person-
                                                              ally, and those that work for us as well.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. So you are saying that you don’t want anyone to
                                                              ever protest on any business ever?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. That is not what I said. That is not
                                                              what I said.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Okay. I am not sure how that syncs up with your
                                                              right to protest and your freedom of speech.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. No. I just said that that could really
                                                              hurt our company. That is all.
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. But it would anybody. So any business where
                                                              someone feels the need to protest, they have that right to do that,
                                                              as long as they are not physically harming people. So I guess that
                                                              is just a freedom of speech right to protest situation, not nec-
                                                              essarily, no one is targeting you, in other words.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. So the third point is the increased cost
                                                              that typically having unions on the job tend to have. I have seen
                                                              that in different projects in Florida. I don’t know. Maybe in your
                                                              State, or your area, it is a little bit different and maybe in your
                                                              experiences. But in Florida, the jobs have definitely gone up a lot
                                                              higher by using unions. You do have a more limited, especially in
                                                              Florida—and, again, I can only talk about Florida. It is a right-to-




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                                                              work State. More than 80 percent of the workers are nonunion, so
                                                              there is more competitive, and it does allow to have better pricing;
                                                              otherwise, when you have the PLAs and those agreements, there
                                                              are certain amounts that are required.
                                                                 So that is all I am saying as——
                                                                 Ms. NEWMAN. Okay. I just want to remind, for the record, that
                                                              right-to-work States, all 33 States, health outcomes are much far
                                                              worse, lower incomes overall, and lower wages. So I just want to
                                                              end with that, but thank you very much.
                                                                 And I yield back.
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Sure. Our offices can get back to you
                                                              as well, Representative Newman, with any additional questions
                                                              that you or the Committee may have.
                                                                 Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman
                                                              from Illinois yields back.
                                                                 The Chair recognizes the distinguished gentleman from Pennsyl-
                                                              vania, Mr. Meuser.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Happy to be with the
                                                              Committee here today, and thank you to the witnesses. I am, in
                                                              fact, joining a little bit late, but I did catch that exchange, which
                                                              I found fascinating. Ms. Murphy, I am going to ask you, and you
                                                              probably didn’t come here to get inquisitioned about whether or not
                                                              you are antiunion, but I will say that is certainly what it sounded
                                                              like. I, myself, am a Republican in a non-right-to-work State, Penn-
                                                              sylvania, and I am always favorable to the trades.
                                                                 I think our unions have some great apprenticeship programs,
                                                              and prevailing wage is something that we are all for, prevailing
                                                              wage plus when it is plus-plus, that tends to get in the way of
                                                              projects. So anything that is antigrowth and antidevelopment, I
                                                              think is certainly a matter of discussion. And I think the trades—
                                                              and it certainly sounded like you were trying to get this out, was—
                                                              deserve a seat at the table just like those who choose not to be part
                                                              of a trade or a union at that particular time. And PLAs, by the
                                                              way, are one of the [inaudible]. It is not an inclusionary propo-
                                                              sition, which is the reason that many companies have an issue
                                                              with it.
                                                                 So I would just ask in the PRO Act, to have it remove States’
                                                              rights such as the right to work is just unfair. States should be the
                                                              ones who determine such things and the idea that the PRO Act
                                                              calls for a secret ballot, or looks to remove the secret ballot, is quite
                                                              interesting as well, because we are not talking about fairness here;
                                                              we are talking about some other tactics that are simply inappro-
                                                              priate.
                                                                 So I appreciate where you are coming from, but at the same note,
                                                              we have got to figure out how businesses can move forward, wages
                                                              can stay high, and it is a very inclusionary atmosphere. But I will
                                                              just ask you related to the PRO Act, and this might be repetitive,
                                                              how will that affect your business if the PRO Act were to pass?
                                                                 Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Thank you, Representative. So I would
                                                              like to maybe focus on the taxes piece about the increase in taxes,
                                                              maybe, again, in this aspect as well, especially with all the benefits
                                                              and the growth that we have seen in the last couple of years.
                                                                 I guess the biggest piece about the Act is the taxes piece also,
                                                              that that concerns me. Because with—it just brings a lot of uncer-




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                                                              tainty to my company of what that would look like. Will I be able
                                                              to continue with the employees that we do have? Will we be able
                                                              to still provide the benefits that we do have?
                                                                And those are high—those are high concerns, as well as—I agree
                                                              with you on the secret ballots and all those other things, which
                                                              kind of surprised me. I didn’t really understand why that would be
                                                              in this kind of bill. All we are asking is for, like what you said, a
                                                              seat at the table and fairness all across the board for everyone.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Let me ask you this, Ms. Murphy: The idea of the
                                                              tax reductions that took place a couple of years ago had about a
                                                              20 percent reduction for small business. I have many friends who
                                                              have small businesses, and most of them told me they were able
                                                              to bring in more inventory, they were able to hire one or two more
                                                              people, they were able to expand their business. They did not say,
                                                              Hey, this is great. I am going to be making an extra $20,000 a
                                                              year.
                                                                What was your experience? What did you do with the tax relief
                                                              that took place?
                                                                Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. I immediately went back and it went
                                                              back into the employees. We were able to hire double the amount
                                                              of employees that we had before then. We were able to also give
                                                              raises, give very high bonuses, and be able to provide healthcare
                                                              and 401 plans for the first time.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. So you are a passthrough business, of course. If
                                                              that was changed, and that is a lot of talk, of course, about raising
                                                              the income tax, as well as eliminating small business relief, would
                                                              that reverse things for you, or how would you handle that, particu-
                                                              larly after recovering out of COVID?
                                                                Mrs. MECIAS-MURPHY. Yes, it would definitely affect our busi-
                                                              ness financially in a huge way, especially since with COVID, even
                                                              though the construction companies were still working, there was a
                                                              3- to 4-month delay. Let’s say we had projects that we were work-
                                                              ing on during COVID and we continued with those projects. But
                                                              then, there was a lot of bidding and a lot of projects got held, be-
                                                              cause the building departments were closed, plans weren’t being re-
                                                              viewed, or what have you.
                                                                So it is kind of now—I would say there is probably a 4- to 6
                                                              months that there weren’t any new projects being awarded, and
                                                              that had an effect as well, especially with COVID, and that would
                                                              just add on top of that situation.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                I yield back.
                                                                Chairman MFUME. Absolutely. The gentleman from Pennsylva-
                                                              nia’s time has expired.
                                                                In fact, all time has expired. And I want to personally, again,
                                                              thank all of our witnesses for being here today to have comments
                                                              on what we consider to be a very, very important subject, particu-
                                                              larly our new witnesses in the persons of Mr. Bone, Ms. Ohrenberg,
                                                              and Ms. Murphy, and our old friend, Mr. Thomas, who has joined
                                                              us, again, before this Committee.
                                                                We all agree, I think, that we have got to find ways to put the
                                                              funding of whatever we come up with as a Congress so that it
                                                              works for small businesses. Those businesses over the centuries




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                                                              helped to build this country. It is critical now, I think we will all
                                                              agree, that they have to help be a part of the rebuild.
                                                                It is my hope that this hearing shed light on existing programs
                                                              to ensure the participation of small firms in that procurement proc-
                                                              ess.
                                                                And as we consider infrastructure proposals, we have got to work
                                                              also to expand contracting opportunities, and provide small busi-
                                                              nesses with the resources they need to complete them.
                                                                So at this point, I would like to ask unanimous consent that
                                                              Members have 5 legislative days to submit statements and sup-
                                                              porting materials for their record. Without objection, it is so or-
                                                              dered.
                                                                And I want to thank, in particular, the Ranking Member, Ms.
                                                              Salazar, for joining us for what we both consider is, hopefully, a
                                                              step forward on this whole issue of contracting and infrastructure.
                                                                If there is no further business before the Committee, the Com-
                                                              mittee now does stand adjourned.
                                                                Thank you all very, very much.
                                                                [Whereupon, at 2:37 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]




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                                                                                                       APPENDIX




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SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 48 here 44750.019


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00052   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  49




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 49 here 44750.020


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00053   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  50




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 50 here 44750.021


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00054   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  51




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 51 here 44750.022


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00055   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  52




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 52 here 44750.023


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00056   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  53




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 53 here 44750.024


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00057   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  54




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 54 here 44750.025


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00058   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  55




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 55 here 44750.026


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00059   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  56




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 56 here 44750.027


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00060   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  57




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 57 here 44750.028


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00061   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  58




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 58 here 44750.029


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00062   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  59




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 59 here 44750.030


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00063   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  60




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 60 here 44750.031


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00064   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  61




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 61 here 44750.032


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00065   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  62




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 62 here 44750.033


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00066   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  63




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 63 here 44750.034


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00067   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  64




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 64 here 44750.035


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00068   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  65




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 65 here 44750.036


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00069   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  66




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 66 here 44750.037


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00070   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  67




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 67 here 44750.038


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00071   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  68




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 68 here 44750.039


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00072   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  69




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 69 here 44750.040


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00073   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  70




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 70 here 44750.041


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00074   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  71




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 71 here 44750.042


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00075   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  72




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 72 here 44750.043


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00076   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  73




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 73 here 44750.044


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00077   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  74




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 74 here 44750.045


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00078   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  75




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 75 here 44750.046


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00079   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  76




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 76 here 44750.047


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00080   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                                  77




                                                                                                                  Æ




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                       Insert offset folio 77 here 44750.048


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   15:06 Oct 19, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00081   Fmt 6602    Sfmt 6011   F:\DOCS\44750.TXT   DEBBIE


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CHRG-117hhrg44750.pdf
Original
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