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The Role of Community Navigators in Reaching Underserved Businesses (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, March 18, 2021)

Summary

Printed record of a hearing of the House Committee on Small Business, Subcommittee on Underserved, Agricultural, and Rural Business Development, held March 18, 2021, titled The Role of Community Navigators in Reaching Underserved Businesses, Small Business Committee Document Number 117–006. Opening statements came from Hon. Jared Golden and Hon. Jim Hagedorn. Witnesses were Rebecca Shi, executive director of the American Business Immigration Coalition; Bridget Weston, chief executive officer of the Service Corps of Retired Executives (SCORE); Pilar Guzman Zavala, chief executive officer of Half Moon Empanadas; and Bruce Strong, state director of the Minnesota Small Business Development Center. The appendix prints their statements, answers to questions from Golden, and additional material from America's SBDC Missouri.

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“The Role of Community Navigators in Reaching Underserved Businesses (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, March 18, 2021).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/the-role-of-community-navigators-in-reaching-underserved-businesses-ho-aa5fe0b234/, SHA-256 2b55671e0b1d8d2794915c5658d24fc11c09a07621ccb21247527d8b6b36f6dd.

Full text

                                                                     THE ROLE OF COMMUNITY NAVIGATORS IN
                                                                       REACHING UNDERSERVED BUSINESSES


                                                                                                  HEARING
                                                                                                         BEFORE THE


                                                                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED,
                                                                            AGRICULTURAL,
                                                                   AND RURAL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
                                                                                                            OF THE


                                                                       COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                              UNITED STATES
                                                                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
                                                                             ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                                       FIRST SESSION


                                                                                                       HEARING HELD
                                                                                                       MARCH 18, 2021




                                                                                Small Business Committee Document Number 117–006
                                                                                  Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov

                                                                                           U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                                                    43–802                             WASHINGTON : 2021




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                                                                                    HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                       NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                                                                                                JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                                                                                                JASON CROW, Colorado
                                                                                               SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                                                                                              KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                                                                                              DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                                                                                               MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
                                                                                           CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
                                                                                                 JUDY CHU, California
                                                                                            DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                                                                                            ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
                                                                                          CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                                                                                                ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                                                                                               ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
                                                                                    BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
                                                                                               ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                                                                                              JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
                                                                                              PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                                                                                              DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                                                                                             CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
                                                                                           ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
                                                                                                YOUNG KIM, California
                                                                                               BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                                                                                               BYRON DONALDS, Florida
                                                                                               MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                                                                                            SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

                                                                                          MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
                                                                                     ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
                                                                                             DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director




                                                                                                                  (II)




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                                                                                                            CONTENTS
                                                                                                         OPENING STATEMENTS
                                                                                                                                                                                         Page
                                                              Hon. Jared Golden ...................................................................................................        1
                                                              Hon. Jim Hagedorn .................................................................................................          3

                                                                                                                    WITNESSES
                                                              Ms. Rebecca Shi, Executive Director, American Business Immigration Coali-
                                                               tion, Chicago, IL ...................................................................................................       6
                                                              Ms. Bridget Weston, Chief Executive Officer, Service Corps of Retired Execu-
                                                               tives (SCORE), Herndon, VA ..............................................................................                   7
                                                              Ms. Pilar Guzman Zavala, Chief Executive Officer, Half Moon Empanadas,
                                                               Miami, FL .............................................................................................................     9
                                                              Mr. Bruce Strong, State Director, Minnesota Small Business Development
                                                               Center (SBDC), St. Paul, MN .............................................................................                  11

                                                                                                                     APPENDIX
                                                              Prepared Statements:
                                                                  Ms. Rebecca Shi, Executive Director, American Business Immigration
                                                                    Coalition, Chicago, IL ...................................................................................            29
                                                                  Ms. Bridget Weston, Chief Executive Officer, Service Corps of Retired
                                                                    Executives (SCORE), Herndon, VA .............................................................                         34
                                                                  Ms. Pilar Guzman Zavala, Chief Executive Officer, Half Moon
                                                                    Empanadas, Miami, FL ................................................................................                 45
                                                                  Mr. Bruce Strong, State Director, Minnesota Small Business Develop-
                                                                    ment Center (SBDC), St. Paul, MN ............................................................                         47
                                                              Questions and Answers for the Record:
                                                                  Questions from Hon. Jared Golden to Ms. Bridget Weston and Answers
                                                                    from Ms. Bridget Weston .............................................................................                 50
                                                                  Questions from Hon. Jared Golden to Ms. Rebecca Shi and Answers
                                                                    from Ms. Rebecca Shi ...................................................................................              52
                                                                  Questions from Hon. Jared Golden to Mr. Bruce Strong and Answers
                                                                    from Mr. Bruce Strong .................................................................................               58
                                                              Additional Material for the Record:
                                                                  America’s SBDC Missouri ................................................................................                59




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                                                                   THE ROLE OF COMMUNITY NAVIGATORS IN
                                                                     REACHING UNDERSERVED BUSINESSES


                                                                                           THURSDAY, MARCH 18, 2021

                                                                                  HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                                                                  COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
                                                                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED, AGRICULTURAL,
                                                                                       AND RURAL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT,
                                                                                                                Washington, DC.
                                                                 The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room
                                                              2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jared Golden [chair-
                                                              man of the Subcommittee] presiding.
                                                                 Present: Representatives Golden, Crow, Delgado, Hagedorn, Wil-
                                                              liams, Stauber, Tenney, and Salazar.
                                                                 Also Present: Representative Luetkemeyer.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. I call this hearing to order.
                                                                 I want to make sure to note a couple of important requirements
                                                              before we get going. Let me first say that standing House and com-
                                                              mittee rules and practice continue to apply during hybrid pro-
                                                              ceedings. All Members are reminded that they are expected to ad-
                                                              here to these standing rules, including decorum.
                                                                 House regulations require Members to be visible through a video
                                                              connection throughout the proceedings, so please keep your cam-
                                                              eras on. Also please remember to remain muted until recognized to
                                                              minimize background noise. If you have to participate in another
                                                              proceeding, please exit this one and log back in later. In the event
                                                              a Member encounters technical issues that prevent them from
                                                              being recognized for questions I will move to the next available
                                                              Member of the same party and recognize that Member at the next
                                                              appropriate time slot provided they have returned to the pro-
                                                              ceeding.
                                                                 For those Members physically present in the Committee room
                                                              today, we will also be following health and safety guidelines issued
                                                              by the House attending physician. That includes social distancing
                                                              and the use of masks. Members and staff are expected to wear
                                                              masks at all times while in the hearing room. And I thank you in
                                                              advance for your commitment to a safe environment for all here
                                                              today.
                                                                 I am proud to serve as Chair of this Subcommittee.
                                                                 Underserved, agricultural, and rural small businesses have expe-
                                                              rienced some of the harshest outcomes of the COVID-19 pandemic.
                                                              The road to recovery they face is long and we should ensure to ad-
                                                              vance policies that will prioritize them so that they are not left be-
                                                              hind. I hope to use this Subcommittee’s first hearing during the
                                                                                                                  (1)




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                                                                                                                  2

                                                              117th Congress to examine the newly created Community Navi-
                                                              gator Program.
                                                                 Throughout the COVID crisis large numbers of minority-owned
                                                              and rural small businesses found themselves on the outside looking
                                                              in when trying to access emergency relief. During the early days
                                                              of the Paycheck Protection Program and Economic Injury Disaster
                                                              Loan Advances, large financial institutions often prioritized larger
                                                              customers at the expense of underserved rural small businesses.
                                                              This lack of access to relief added insult to injury for small busi-
                                                              nesses bearing the brunt of the pandemic’s economic impact.
                                                                 When COVID struck, many small businesses in rural areas were
                                                              still financially and structurally rebounding from the Great Reces-
                                                              sion. During 2020 slow rural population growth and declining labor
                                                              force participation led to a much slower employment rate in rural
                                                              areas than elsewhere. Rural businesses also face a lack of access
                                                              to capital in general, as well as broadband connectivity, making
                                                              pivoting to digital offerings and adapting to the COVID business
                                                              environment much more difficult.
                                                                 Minority-owned businesses have also been devastated by this cri-
                                                              sis. Last year the number of actively working self-employed busi-
                                                              ness owners fell dramatically across the black, Hispanic, and Asian
                                                              American communities. And minority-owned firms that had been
                                                              fortunate enough to avoid closure faced harsher financial conditions
                                                              and have less cash on hand than white firms do.
                                                                 These are the realities that led to the creation of the Community
                                                              Navigator Program. Congress authorized the program as part of
                                                              the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021. It will provide $100 million
                                                              for grants to organizations to participate in the program and $75
                                                              million to support outreach and education. The funding for edu-
                                                              cation and outreach will go towards offering services in the 10 most
                                                              common languages other than English, making improvements to
                                                              the SBA’s website, implementing immediate campaign to educate
                                                              underserved communities, and establishing an SBA call center.
                                                                 The Community Navigator Program will supply grants to tradi-
                                                              tional business assistance organizations, like small business devel-
                                                              opment centers, women’s business centers, and its core chapters.
                                                              These institutions have deep ties to the communities they operate
                                                              in and will engage trusted, culturally knowledgeable partners to
                                                              conduct targeted outreach to specific sectors of the small business
                                                              community.
                                                                 This outreach can manifest in various ways, including hiring
                                                              dedicated staff to focus on these individual communities, or
                                                              partnering with specialized community organizations and chambers
                                                              of commerce via a hub and spoke model. The Community Navigator
                                                              Program seeks to engage with underserved communities by pro-
                                                              viding technical assistance and enhanced outreach.
                                                                 For this program to meet its stated goal Congress must closely
                                                              monitor its roll out and work with the Administration to make the
                                                              program operate as effectively as possible. That is why this hearing
                                                              today is important.
                                                                 I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the potential
                                                              impact of the program on underserved and rural small businesses
                                                              and ways the Subcommittee can ensure as many small businesses
                                                              benefit as possible.




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                                                                With that, I will now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr.
                                                              Hagedorn, for his opening statement.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratu-
                                                              lations on your appointment as Chair of this Subcommittee. And on
                                                              behalf of the Republican Members and myself we look forward to
                                                              working with you during this Congress to especially help our small
                                                              businesses and those in the rural communities and the agricultural
                                                              sector.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. I very much look forward to working with
                                                              you too and I am blessed to be two Congresses in a row working
                                                              on a Subcommittee with a Member from Minnesota. And you got
                                                              the other one sitting right in front of you.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. And I know Congressman Stauber had a good
                                                              working relationship with you as well.
                                                                So small businesses from all sectors of the economy have turned
                                                              to the U.S. Small Business Administration programs for relief dur-
                                                              ing the COVID-19 pandemic. Following the launch of the Paycheck
                                                              Protection Program created by Congress in March of last year, the
                                                              SBA processed more than 14 years-worth of loans in less than 14
                                                              days, serving or assisting over 50 million small business jobs dur-
                                                              ing the program’s first run. That is just unbelievable when you
                                                              think about it, the amount of work and loans that were run
                                                              through in such a short period of time.
                                                                The success of recovery programs like PPP is undeniable. How-
                                                              ever, there is no doubt that inconsistent guidance, burdensome pa-
                                                              perwork, and administrative holes and delays have caused confu-
                                                              sion for small businesses looking to utilize these programs. As
                                                              Democrats continue to exploit the COVID-19 pandemic as an ex-
                                                              cuse to ram through their massive spending package and create
                                                              new government programs, I believe Congress should focus on tar-
                                                              geted and efficient relief that will aid small businesses as we re-
                                                              open the economy.
                                                                The partisan $1.9 trillion so called American Rescue Plan Act of
                                                              2021 directed the SBA to establish a Community Navigator Pilot
                                                              Program. This program will issue grants or contracts with non-
                                                              profits, resource partners, states, and localities, providing free as-
                                                              sistance and resources to small businesses for programs made
                                                              available during the COVID-19 pandemic. It is my hope that any
                                                              new program created by Congress will aid existing SBA resource
                                                              partners in their outreach to all communities and not duplicate
                                                              current efforts.
                                                                Southern Minnesota is home to a diverse group of small busi-
                                                              nesses. In my district it is important that rural communities have
                                                              the resources needed to contribute to the food supply, fuel rural
                                                              America, and support other local businesses.
                                                                As we move past the pandemic it is critical that we ensure farm-
                                                              ers and ranchers have access to the resources needed to maintain
                                                              operations. To support rural communities and agricultural small
                                                              businesses, I have introduced H.R. 1411, the Bipartisan PPP Flexi-
                                                              bility for Farmers and Ranchers Act, which would allow farmers
                                                              and ranchers categorized as partnerships to utilize gross income
                                                              when calculating PPP loans. I hope the Members will support me
                                                              on that bill. I think it can really help over 100,000 farm partner-
                                                              ships as we move forward.




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                                                                 Today’s hearing will explore the role of community navigators in
                                                              researching underserved communities. I look forward to hearing
                                                              from our witnesses on the outreach completed by existing SBA re-
                                                              source partners, like small business development centers, during
                                                              the pandemic and how they have reached underserved areas, in-
                                                              cluding remote and rural communities. I look forward to discussing
                                                              the Community Navigator pilot program’s objectives and
                                                              deliverables in addition to the standards which the navigators will
                                                              need to uphold.
                                                                 Congress has appropriated $175 million for this program and we
                                                              must ensure that we be proper stewards of the taxpayers’ dollars
                                                              and that the Navigator program yields beneficial results for small
                                                              businesses.
                                                                 With the economy in recovery and egregious and arbitrary lock
                                                              downs finally coming to an end, new and existing federal COVID
                                                              tools, such as the Community Navigator pilot program, need to be
                                                              closely examined to determine the most effective, economical, and
                                                              efficient next steps.
                                                                 Thank you for being here today to discuss this important topic.
                                                              I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Hagedorn.
                                                                 Very quickly I will explain how this hearing will proceed. Each
                                                              witness will have 5 minutes to provide a statement and each Com-
                                                              mittee Member will have 5 minutes for questions. Please ensure
                                                              your microphone is on when you begin speaking and that you re-
                                                              turn to mute when finished.
                                                                 With that, let us introduce our witnesses.
                                                                 Our first witness today is Ms. Rebecca Shi, executive director of
                                                              the American Business Immigration Coalition. As executive direc-
                                                              tor of ABIC Ms. Shi works directly with a steering committee of
                                                              over 350 CEOs, university presidents, chambers of commerce, and
                                                              immigrant advocates to support the passage of pro immigrant pol-
                                                              icy at the state and federal levels.
                                                                 Welcome, Ms. Shi.
                                                                 Our second witness—one moment. Just for one second. Our sec-
                                                              ond witness is Ms. Bridget Weston. Ms. Weston is the CEO of
                                                              SCORE. As CEO Ms. Weston provides executive leadership and
                                                              works directly and collaboratively with the board of directors to es-
                                                              tablish the vision and direction of SCORE.
                                                                 In her 10 years with the organization she has developed an in
                                                              depth understanding of the needs and challenges facing SCORE’s
                                                              staff, its 300 chapters, and over 10,000 volunteers.
                                                                 Welcome back, Ms. Weston.
                                                                 I would now like to yield to Ms. Salazar to introduce our third
                                                              witness.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity.
                                                                 And I would like to introduce my constituent, Ms. Pilar Guzman
                                                              Zavala. Ms. Zavala is a small business owner in the City of Miami
                                                              that I represent and the CEO of Half Moon Empanadas, an Argen-
                                                              tinian style restaurant based in my district. She is also a mentor
                                                              for women entrepreneurs in the City of Miami with the WIN Lab
                                                              Miami from Babson College and the Florida International Univer-
                                                              sity StartUP program.




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                                                                She is a Ricardo Salinas Scholarship recipient for the Aspen In-
                                                              stitute and a Young American Leaders Program Fellow from the
                                                              Harvard School of Business.
                                                                Additionally, Ms. Zavala is a Venture Cafe board Member and a
                                                              Miami leadership and a Miami fellow graduate.
                                                                Small businesses are the foundation of our community. And dur-
                                                              ing these difficult times our local job creators have been absolutely
                                                              devastated. I am committed to restoring our economy and deliv-
                                                              ering much needed COVID relief for our struggling small business
                                                              owners in South Florida.
                                                                Ms. Zavala’s story is truly one of the American dream, just like
                                                              mine. But her story is also one of the trials and tribulations. And
                                                              we look forward to hearing from your experiences, Ms. Zavala.
                                                                Thank you so much for joining us today and to all of you for
                                                              doing everything you are doing for our community. Your deter-
                                                              mination over the last year is an example to all of us small busi-
                                                              ness owners. And I specifically and my staff are looking forward to
                                                              visiting Half Moon Empanadas on our next trip to Miami.
                                                                Thank you, Ms. Zavala. I yield back.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Congresswoman Salazar.
                                                                With snow still on the ground in Maine and I am guessing in
                                                              Minnesota too, the background in Florida there looks pretty warm
                                                              and looks nice.
                                                                But thank you for the introduction and welcome to Ms. Zavala.
                                                                And I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr.
                                                              Hagedorn, to introduce our final witness.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                Our next witness is Bruce Strong, who I believe you have met
                                                              in the past and have worked with. And you were highly com-
                                                              plementary of his previous testimony. I am looking forward to
                                                              today.
                                                                Mr. Strong is the State Director for the Minnesota Small Busi-
                                                              ness Development Center Network. He has extensive experience in
                                                              community and economic development and in the mortgage lending
                                                              and banking industries. Mr. Strong is an Air Force veteran and
                                                              graduated summa cum laude from National College with a degree
                                                              in business administration and marketing.
                                                                Yesterday, on March 17, the nation celebrated Small Business
                                                              Development Centers Day. Small business development centers
                                                              provide valuable resources to our small business constituents
                                                              across the country. And I thank Mr. Strong and his SBDC col-
                                                              leagues for their critical work to promote entrepreneurship, small
                                                              business growth, and the U.S. economy.
                                                                Mr. Strong, thank you for joining us today and thank you for
                                                              your service to our great country.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Hagedorn.
                                                                Thank you all for joining us today. And why don’t we begin with
                                                              opening statements from our witnesses. First I will recognize Ms.
                                                              Shi for 5 minutes.




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                                                                                                                  6
                                                              STATEMENTS OF REBECCA SHI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMER-
                                                               ICAN BUSINESS IMMIGRATION COALITION; BRIDGET WES-
                                                               TON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SERVICE CORPS OF RE-
                                                               TIRED EXECUTIVES (SCORE); PILAR GUZMAN ZAVALA, CHIEF
                                                               EXECUTIVE OFFICER, HALF MOON EMPANADAS; BRUCE
                                                               STRONG, STATE DIRECTOR, MINNESOTA SMALL BUSINESS
                                                               DEVELOPMENT CENTER (SBDC)
                                                                                           STATEMENT OF REBECCA SHI
                                                                 Ms. SHI. Good morning, Chairman Golden, Ranking Member
                                                              Hagedorn. My name is Rebecca Shi and I am the executive director
                                                              of the American Business Immigration Coalition.
                                                                 ABIC believes that the economy recovery of our nation’s small
                                                              and underserved businesses is necessary to ensure our nation’s re-
                                                              covery from the COVID-19 pandemic. Small business owners, espe-
                                                              cially African American, immigrant, rural, and other underserved
                                                              and isolated businesses are the engines of their local economies.
                                                                 ABIC is a bipartisan coalition of 1,200 employers, CEOs, and
                                                              business associations across 13 states, including Florida, Texas,
                                                              Maine, Colorado, New York, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Illinois, Mas-
                                                              sachusetts, Wisconsin, North and South Carolina. Over the last 11
                                                              months ABIC created and implemented a small business recovery
                                                              technical assistance program, leveraging a community navigator
                                                              model. This program provides one-to-one technical assistance for
                                                              small, underserved minority-owned businesses and growers to ac-
                                                              cess critical resources, including but not limited to the Paycheck
                                                              Protection program, federal and state small business loans and
                                                              grants.
                                                                 ABIC thanks Congress and President Biden for including $100
                                                              million for community navigators in the American Recovery. We
                                                              also thank Chairman Ben Cardin, Senators Marco Rubio and
                                                              Susan Collins, and Chairwoman Nydia Velázquez for working tire-
                                                              lessly over the last 11 months to make improvements to the PPP,
                                                              especially for the smallest borrowers, growers, and their lenders,
                                                              like CDFIs and MDIs.
                                                                 The community navigator model utilizes local nonprofits or
                                                              501(c)(3)s in a complementary non-competitive fashion with exist-
                                                              ing SBA technical assistance programs, like SBDCs, the NDCs, and
                                                              SCORE. The unparalleled magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic
                                                              forced shutdowns and disproportionate impact of small minority-
                                                              owned rural business and growers required a comprehensive, com-
                                                              mon sense, grassroots response. This community navigator model
                                                              we utilize in Illinois, Florida, Texas, and South Carolina to assist
                                                              growers, black and immigrant entrepreneurs.
                                                                 This program assisted Pilar Guzman, whom you will hear later,
                                                              introduced by Congresswoman Salazar, the owner of Half Moon
                                                              Empanadas. We also assisted Chalmers Carr, the owner of Titan
                                                              Farms, the largest peach grower in the country, based in South
                                                              Carolina. He was denied a PPP loan by his bank because they did
                                                              not understand how to calculate his 1,200 H2A workers. And
                                                              Stacey Armstrong, an African American woman entrepreneur, a
                                                              single mother, who employees less than 10 people at her gourmet
                                                              popcorn shop, and she was denied a PPP first because her bank
                                                              prioritized larger firms.




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                                                                 Each of these of entrepreneurs was ultimately assisted in getting
                                                              a PPP loan by a community navigator and the self-help federal
                                                              Credit Union, a CDFI that understands how to work with small
                                                              and rural businesses.
                                                                 Through this model ABIC directly assisted 219 small businesses
                                                              and growers to receive over $8.1 million in PPP loans with an aver-
                                                              age amount of $37,000. This community navigator model was later
                                                              adopted by the State of Illinois’ Department of Commerce and the
                                                              Cook County Illinois Economic Recovery Initiative to disperse local
                                                              business recovery grants allocated by the CARES Act. The State of
                                                              Illinois awarded $88 million in business recovery grants to black,
                                                              rural, and immigrant entrepreneurs.
                                                                 I have a chart that I submitted as evidence just to show that
                                                              using the community navigator model we were able to ramp up ac-
                                                              cess to these grants to small, minority-owned, and rural businesses.
                                                                 A couple of things I just wanted to point out, that as the navi-
                                                              gator model ramped up from October to December of 2020, black
                                                              participation increased by 25 percent and Latino participation in-
                                                              creased between 30 and 46 percent. Over half of the applications
                                                              for black and Hispanic applicants were received in November and
                                                              December as a result of the navigator’s program technical assist-
                                                              ance. And over two-thirds, nearly 70 percent of our Spanish appli-
                                                              cations came in November and December as the navigators did out-
                                                              reach and document preparation for these borrowers.
                                                                 In sum, our community navigators had over 20,000 applications
                                                              by the end of October and throughout the rest of December and we
                                                              were able to award, as I said, up to $88 million.
                                                                 The last thing that I would just mention is the mechanics of this
                                                              navigator model. It is a hub and spoke model. The hub is the lead
                                                              nonprofit responsible for capacity building, train the trainers. The
                                                              spokes are the grassroots nonprofits, sort of your boots on the
                                                              ground conducting direct technical assistance, document prepara-
                                                              tion for the businesses. A successful hub and spoke system creates
                                                              an assembly line that feeds directly into a financial institution, a
                                                              CDFI, and the goal is that the application is in excellent shape by
                                                              the time it is received by that financial institution, so we can en-
                                                              sure efficiency in processing at scale.
                                                                 The second piece is there is a high accountability structure to
                                                              this model. As you all know, nearly every CDFI, or financial insti-
                                                              tution sends a processing number to the PPP applicant when the
                                                              application has been received. And so what we require is not just,
                                                              you know, general outreach or numbers of emails sent or just
                                                              webinars, we ask that each navigator must demonstrate the re-
                                                              ceipts for the outreach so that we know that money is getting de-
                                                              posited in the banks.
                                                                 So I will just wrap up and just say thank you very much for the
                                                              opportunity to testify on behalf of this model.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 Ms. Weston, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
                                                                                     STATEMENT OF BRIDGET WESTON
                                                                Ms. WESTON. Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Hagedorn,
                                                              and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity
                                                              to offer testimony today.




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                                                                 SCORE is the nation’s largest network of volunteer business
                                                              mentors, with more than 10,000 volunteers across 240 chapters, of-
                                                              fering free and confidential advice and educational workshops to
                                                              small business owners.
                                                                 Founded in 1964 as a resource partner of the SBA, SCORE has
                                                              helped more than 11 million entrepreneurs to start, grow, or trou-
                                                              bleshoot their small business. Last year SCORE helped its clients
                                                              to start over 45,000 new businesses and create nearly 75,000 new
                                                              jobs. And despite the challenging business climate of this pan-
                                                              demic, SCORE helped 89 percent of our clients stay in business
                                                              throughout the year. SCORE is the most effective, efficient busi-
                                                              ness formation and job creation engine funded by the federal gov-
                                                              ernment.
                                                                 In 2020, our costs to create a new job was $156 and $259 to cre-
                                                              ate a new business. And for every one dollar appropriated to
                                                              SCORE, our clients return $67 in new federal tax revenue, further
                                                              demonstrating that SCORE is a good steward of the federal dollar.
                                                                 SCORE volunteers are the life blood of our organization and are
                                                              passionate about helping small businesses succeed. Our volunteers
                                                              come from all across the country with diverse backgrounds and ex-
                                                              perience in different industries. Our core services are mentoring,
                                                              educational workshops, and online resources. Last year, SCORE
                                                              volunteers held over 315,000 mentoring sessions, guiding and sup-
                                                              porting our clients through the tremendous challenges brought on
                                                              by the pandemic.
                                                                 Many business owners told us they would to have applied for a
                                                              PPP or an IDA loan without a SCORE mentor to walk them
                                                              through the process. And our high rates of client satisfaction are
                                                              captured by our net promoter score of 87, with 70 being considered
                                                              excellent.
                                                                 In addition to mentoring, SCORE provides virtual webinars on
                                                              our website and our SCORE chapters offer local workshops that
                                                              are in person or virtual. These workshops drew over 464,000
                                                              attendees last year.
                                                                 Knowing that the pandemic has hit some businesses harder than
                                                              others, one of SCORE’s key areas of focus is fostering diversity, eq-
                                                              uity, and inclusion, both for clients and volunteers. Women and mi-
                                                              nority volunteers climbed to 38 percent of total volunteers last
                                                              year, and this 5 percent increase represents the single biggest an-
                                                              nual growth since we began tracking these metrics in 2012.
                                                              SCORE currently serves a diverse range of small business owners;
                                                              60 percent of our clients are women and 46 percent are minorities.
                                                              Early this year we launched SCORE for black entrepreneurs as
                                                              part of our SCORE For All initiative, to help serve disadvantaged
                                                              businesses. We plan to add more SCORE For All campaigns to help
                                                              these businesses survive and thrive, supporting women, rural en-
                                                              trepreneurs, veterans, the 50 and older community, and disabled
                                                              entrepreneurs.
                                                                 SCORE is working harder than ever to reach underserved entre-
                                                              preneurs, leveraging our community relationships nationally and
                                                              locally. National partnerships include the BIPOC Support Founda-
                                                              tion, Women Entrepreneurs Grow Global, and the Latino Coalition
                                                              who introduce SCORE to new communities of small business own-
                                                              ers. Across the nation our SCORE chapters are already operating




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                                                              as effective community navigators by working in local communities
                                                              to help underserved business owners. For example, over the past
                                                              year SCORE Cleveland has rededicated itself to bring its services
                                                              to the minority business community. The chapter has partnered
                                                              with leading nonprofits that target these communities and services
                                                              have more than doubled over last year.
                                                                When the pandemic hit, SCORE pivoted to deliver virtual men-
                                                              toring and education without missing a day of service. And we ac-
                                                              commodated a 30 percent increase in services last year without any
                                                              increase in funding. Now, we are at capacity and will not be able
                                                              to grow without additional resources. Based on SCORE’s continued
                                                              demonstrated impact, increased demand for services, and our plans
                                                              to reach more business owners in underserved and disadvantaged
                                                              communities, SCORE is respectfully respecting an increase, a $9.5
                                                              million in funding, for a total FY2 appropriation of $21.7 million.
                                                              That additional funding would be spent to increase mentoring and
                                                              education by reducing the administrative burden on volunteers,
                                                              provide more direct funding to local chapters for community out-
                                                              reach, and focus to help more underserved businesses.
                                                                With this relatively small investment we can provide even great-
                                                              er value to the business owners and the economy. The increased
                                                              funding would allow us to deliver more than half a million client
                                                              services, with a projected outcome of 100,000 additional new busi-
                                                              nesses started or jobs created.
                                                                SCORE’s mentoring and education are critical to helping small
                                                              businesses overcome their challenges and succeed. SCORE stands
                                                              ready to help our nation’s most vulnerable small business owners
                                                              so they can keep their doors open and keep people employed.
                                                                Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to your
                                                              questions.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                Ms. Zavala, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
                                                                                 STATEMENT OF PILAR GUZMAN ZAVALA
                                                                Ms. ZAVALA. Hello. Hi, everybody. It is an honor to be speaking
                                                              with you all today. Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to lis-
                                                              ten to my story. I think it is a story that reflects, you know, the
                                                              reality of many small businesses like mine.
                                                                Thank you, Congresswoman Salazar, for that kind introduction.
                                                              I am here in Miami, 77 degrees. But so my name is Pilar Guzman
                                                              Zavala and I am the CEO of Half Moon Empanadas. I represent
                                                              one of the almost, you know, more than 30 billion small businesses
                                                              in America. I also represent today the minority in every sense, you
                                                              know, I am a woman, I am Hispanic, I am an immigrant. And now
                                                              my company is in an industry where there have been so much suf-
                                                              fering and torture that I am also one of the, you know, minority
                                                              restaurants that are still open.
                                                                You know, I came to America from Mexico when I was 22 years
                                                              old, right after college. I went to Georgetown School of Foreign
                                                              Service because I wanted to understand how to create economic de-
                                                              velopment, how to elevate poverty. Little did I know back then that
                                                              I would end up creating, you know, an impact as an entrepreneur
                                                              in Miami and that my dreams will become clear in a, you know,
                                                              in a new food category in America with empanadas, and that this




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                                                              immigrant that has a hard time speaking in English in Georgetown
                                                              would end up picking the President of the United States.
                                                                 You know, Half Moon Empanadas, it is a small business in
                                                              Miami with a concept of empanadas. Before the pandemic—we
                                                              have been in business 12 years, before the pandemic was had 14
                                                              stores open. The Miami Airport, the University of Miami, different
                                                              non-traditional locations here. And, you know, our story wasn’t
                                                              easy. We took us—from the beginning, it took us 7 years to get a
                                                              paycheck from our company. We did everything wrong and we al-
                                                              most went bankrupt. It took us 10 banks locally to actually get us
                                                              our first financing for our store in the airport. So I do know what
                                                              it is to go through a financial system and understand how that
                                                              works.
                                                                 You know, when COVID hit, it was literally a year ago, March
                                                              13. That week we saw all of our stores closed. In a week, every-
                                                              thing was like what happened. It was really scary and I see how
                                                              great and how blessed we are to live in this country because we
                                                              were able to apply to PPP. It took us three banks. It took us three
                                                              banks to get noes because the large fund was not very—it was not
                                                              responsive. The medium bank was overwhelmed. And so I—thanks
                                                              to the community navigator, I was able to get, you know, the sup-
                                                              port that we needed. You know, they connected us with a local
                                                              bank that approved us quickly. I think 2 days we were approved.
                                                              This helped us to stay afloat and keep our salaries, you know, peo-
                                                              ple in payroll. And because I am also a mentor here in the commu-
                                                              nity, and I am part of a network of businesses, I joined the effort,
                                                              too. And we were able to help with ABIC, with Becca’s team and
                                                              Impact Fund here in Miami, other women and Hispanic-owned
                                                              companies, to get the support. From processing documentation and
                                                              gathering paperwork. We actually got a lot of these businesses ap-
                                                              proved for PPP.
                                                                 And so besides the PPP, we though we entrepreneurs don’t stop
                                                              we don’t like to stay still. You know, we didn’t stop there as a com-
                                                              pany. We did not only rely on help of the government, we re-
                                                              invented ourselves, we became a restaurant in Miami making
                                                              meals for seniors through our Miami-Dade County contract and we
                                                              started our efforts in the digital space, you know, to send
                                                              empanadas locally and nationally.
                                                                 So when I think about this whole year, I actually was thinking
                                                              about [inaudible]. It must have been so hard for all you guys, gov-
                                                              ernment officials, you know, trying to figure out what to do and
                                                              coming up with an entire package to save our economy and our
                                                              community. So I wanted to at least to take 2 seconds to thank you
                                                              for the work you have done and for the effort, because it truly has
                                                              made a difference in many businesses like mine.
                                                                 I had the honor to speak to President Biden twice in the last
                                                              month. On our first call, you know, I raised my hand. My husband
                                                              could not believe that I actually interrupted the President and I
                                                              said could I please give you a suggestion. And my suggestion to
                                                              him was please remember that the small businesses are not the
                                                              large 300 businesses, it is—there are a lot of tiny businesses that
                                                              are what I consider truly a small, of one, five, ten, twenty people,
                                                              and that we need to focus on that because we are—we sustain the
                                                              economy.




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                                                                 So as we speak today, I am opening one store in Congresswoman
                                                              Salazar’s district. I cannot express to you how challenging it has
                                                              been to open that store, because of COVID, because how hard it
                                                              has been to hire. It is just really difficult compared to before. But
                                                              I am a believer and I believe change is possible and I truly believe
                                                              that challenges bring opportunities. And so I think this whole crisis
                                                              has shown us, you know, all of us how to work together and how
                                                              to actually focus on the things that really matter.
                                                                 I am thankful for President Biden’s leadership and for you guys’
                                                              leadership, for Congress to approve, you know, the help. I do be-
                                                              lieve that this Community Navigator Program was helpful to me
                                                              and to many here locally and that we should, you know, continue
                                                              to do this kind of work.
                                                                 Thank you so much for your time and your support.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 And finally we will recognize Mr. Strong for 5 minutes.
                                                                                       STATEMENT OF BRUCE STRONG
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. Thank you, Chairman Golden. Thanks also to
                                                              Ranking Member Jim Hagedorn and Member Pete Stauber, who
                                                              are both from the great State of Minnesota, where I live and work.
                                                              I would also like to recognize Nydia Velázquez, Chairwoman of the
                                                              House Small Business Committee, Ranking Member Blaine
                                                              Luetkemeyer, and Representatives Angie Craig and Dean Phillips,
                                                              who are also from Minnesota, for their many years of service and
                                                              tireless support of small businesses throughout the country.
                                                                 My name is Bruce Strong and I am the state director of the Min-
                                                              nesota Small Business Development Network, or SBDC.
                                                                 SBDCs have been operating throughout the country for more
                                                              than 40 years and in Minnesota alone during that time we’ve pro-
                                                              vided more than 960,000 professional consulting hours to help
                                                              95,000 clients start 5,200 businesses, helped more than 80,000 ex-
                                                              isting businesses, and helped them all to secure $3.2 billion in new
                                                              business capital. Since March of last year our staff has worked tire-
                                                              lessly and literally day and night to double the number of clients
                                                              that we served in a typical year in response to the COVID pan-
                                                              demic. Demand for SBDC assistance skyrocketed as business own-
                                                              ers needed help with applications for the PPP and EIDL loan pro-
                                                              grams, or to reimagine their businesses due to government-ordered
                                                              shutdowns.
                                                                 Recently the U.S. Small Business Administration introduced the
                                                              Community Navigators Program. They state the intent of the pro-
                                                              gram is to broaden and intensify outreach and technical assistance
                                                              to targeted sectors of the small business community, including per-
                                                              sons with disabilities, women, veterans, and/or those in minority,
                                                              immigrant, rural, or other underserved communities using a hub
                                                              and spoke delivery model. We don’t yet have the details as to ex-
                                                              actly how the program will operate, but several SBDCs, including
                                                              Minnesota, are working with SBA on a pilot of the program to
                                                              build models for the future of this effort. A total of $175 million has
                                                              been allocated to the program under the American Rescue Plan.
                                                              This is a significant sum and we are pleased to be working with
                                                              SBA to develop the program. Assuming, that is, there is no require-
                                                              ment to provide matching funds for the program.




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                                                                 SBDCs have long worked with other community organizations to
                                                              reach rural and underserved markets, but like other businesses,
                                                              the pandemic forced us to reimagine our own business model. To
                                                              continue meeting the surge in demand, we are creating even more
                                                              partnerships between the SBDC and local community organiza-
                                                              tions. In Minnesota, for instance, we just signed a contract with
                                                              First Children’s Finance to provide specialized assistance to new
                                                              and existing childcare businesses. We are working to complete a
                                                              similar contract with the African Development Center to increase
                                                              their services throughout the state, and I am seeking to create
                                                              even more partnerships.
                                                                 The Northern California SBDC has just launched a new
                                                              inclusivity project that provides a simple but effective approach to
                                                              reach out to the black and African community there. It goes beyond
                                                              simply providing outreach by creating an actual challenge for the
                                                              SBDC and local partners to provide real social change to obtain
                                                              capital and start new black-owned businesses. The project has seen
                                                              tremendous early success and was met with great enthusiasm
                                                              when presented to SBDC state directors across the country just
                                                              last week. So much so, that we will be soon adopting this project
                                                              for implementation in America’s SBDCs everywhere.
                                                                 America’s SBDC wishes to express strong support for the Com-
                                                              munity Navigators Program and we envision it will fit perfectly
                                                              into these plans. We are particularly supportive of the outreach
                                                              portion of the funding. SBDCs have too long been a ‘‘best-kept se-
                                                              cret’’. We have been prohibited from marketing our services and
                                                              that has truly hampered our outreach. That prohibition has only
                                                              recently been lifted by the SBA. The Community Navigator Pro-
                                                              gram will ensure that entrepreneurship education reaches all parts
                                                              of the small business community, and it will go a long way to help
                                                              our efforts to reopen the economy.
                                                                 Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you to all of our witnesses and we
                                                              appreciate all the testimony that you shared with us.
                                                                 I will now move to questions and I will begin by recognizing my-
                                                              self for 5 minutes.
                                                                 I think I will begin with Mr. Strong. I did want to point out that
                                                              I agree with Mr. Hagedorn that the PPP program worked well. For
                                                              that matter, I agree with pretty much everyone that has joined us
                                                              and testified today about that as well. I also look forward to hear-
                                                              ing a little bit about H.R. 1411, your bill on PPP in support of farm
                                                              partnerships. Last Congress you joined me, Congressman
                                                              Hagedorn, in cosponsoring the SBDC Reauthorization legislation,
                                                              which we passed through the House. Did not get taken up by the
                                                              Small Business Committee in the Senate, so hopefully we can con-
                                                              tinue that work in this congress, but.
                                                                 Mr. Strong, obviously there are some who might naturally con-
                                                              clude that some of the groups out there, like SBDCs or SCORE,
                                                              could view the creation of a new program such as this one as poten-
                                                              tially duplicative or in competition with the services you provide.
                                                              You just ended up by putting forward really an endorsement of the
                                                              program. So I wanted to give you the opportunity to say a little bit
                                                              more about the potential effects of the program, how you think it
                                                              will interact with SBDCs. And also if you have any concerns that




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                                                              should be avoided in order to make sure that the programs are
                                                              really complementary.
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. Thank you, Chairman Golden.
                                                                 I don’t view the program as being duplicative or competitive with
                                                              what we are already doing. Rather, I view it as being complemen-
                                                              tary to what we are already doing. As I mentioned, we have long
                                                              had partnerships with other local organizations to help broaden the
                                                              reach of the SBDC and particularly to provide deep reach into
                                                              those markets that have typically been underserved. We have
                                                              worked with the Metropolitan Economic Development Association,
                                                              or MEDA, with the Neighborhood Development Center, with other
                                                              local nonprofit groups and specifically those that serve communities
                                                              and communities of color.
                                                                 So, again, I believe that the Navigator Program will help us
                                                              reach even more community organizations and partner with more
                                                              organizations as we have recently done with the African Develop-
                                                              ment Center and First Children’s Finance here in Minnesota.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much. And you made a
                                                              great point, by the way about previous prohibitions on marketing
                                                              and outreach. What good are these services to businesses if they
                                                              don’t know that they exist in the first place. So look forward to con-
                                                              tinue to work with the SBDCs and SCORE and others on fixing
                                                              that problem in this Congress as well.
                                                                 Next I guess I would direct a question to Ms. Weston from
                                                              SCORE.
                                                                 Through your work with underserved and rural small business
                                                              owners and entrepreneurs, what resources and technical support
                                                              are most often requested? And how do you think this new partner-
                                                              ship with the Community Navigator Program can help address
                                                              these?
                                                                 Ms. WESTON. Thank you for the question, Chairman.
                                                                 And with SCORE mentors seeing tens of thousands of small
                                                              business owners each year we really do have a pulse on what the
                                                              challenges that small business owners are facing. In our mentoring
                                                              sessions the common themes that our mentors hear do relate to
                                                              funding. Do these small business have position funding or cash
                                                              flow, and, along those lines too, attracting and retaining customers.
                                                              Those are the two biggest challenges that we see.
                                                                 With SCORE partnering across the country with local commu-
                                                              nity partners, as well as nationally with some of the partnerships
                                                              I had mentioned previously, it helps connect those business owners
                                                              struggling with funding opportunities, access to capital, cash flow
                                                              questions, or customer questions with those people that have been
                                                              there, done that expertise. We have seen that the PPP and EIDL
                                                              programs were more successful when they were partnered with a
                                                              mentor like SCORE, SBDC. And we want these new federally fund-
                                                              ed opportunities, which are extremely valuable to these business
                                                              owners, be able to take advantage of it. And SCORE mentors are
                                                              ready to help those most vulnerable business owners navigate. The
                                                              key is to make sure that they are connected to those disadvantaged
                                                              and underserved communities.
                                                                 We are doing that already across SCORE chapters. Maine, for ex-
                                                              ample, partners with a number or organizations like the USDA,
                                                              the Maine Farmland Trust, to make sure that that one-on-one busi-




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                                                              ness mentoring service is provided to make sure they have the best
                                                              opportunity for success.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much for that. And I hear
                                                              repeatedly from business owners in Maine about how valuable the
                                                              programs and services offered by SCORE are in starting businesses
                                                              and making tough decision to keep them going as well. So thank
                                                              you for that partnership in Maine.
                                                                 My time has expired and the Ranking Member, Mr. Hagedorn,
                                                              is now recognized for 5 minutes.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 You know, I was listening to testimony, especially from Ms. Shi
                                                              and Ms. Zavala, and they were saying how important it is to make
                                                              sure that our small businesses, all of them, have access to espe-
                                                              cially Paycheck Protection Program and everything else needed in
                                                              order to get, especially at this time, from one side of the
                                                              Coronavirus to the other. And so I think the work of the Com-
                                                              mittee, led by our Committee Chairwoman Velázquez and ranking
                                                              Republican Luetkemeyer, was—and you, Mr. Chairman as well,
                                                              and many Members of this Subcommittee, all of them, I think to
                                                              extend the Paycheck Protection Program by 60 days, that bill that
                                                              was just passed this week, pretty important. So hopefully we can
                                                              work with our Senate colleagues and get that done and make sure
                                                              that all of our businesses are cared for and have proper access to
                                                              the program.
                                                                 So, you know, Mr. Strong, I listened to your testimony. It is very
                                                              good. And I certainly am supportive of small business development
                                                              centers and women’s business centers, veteran’s business center,
                                                              SCORE, you know, all of it. But you said you think this is more
                                                              of a cooperative deal, these navigators, it is not going to be com-
                                                              petition with you. What do you foresee them going out and basi-
                                                              cally bringing the business back to you? Is that kind of the con-
                                                              cept? Or could you, you know, let me know what your thoughts are
                                                              on that?
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. Sure. Thank you, Representative Hagedorn and
                                                              Chairman Golden for that question.
                                                                 Again, the vision for the delivery is a hub and spoke model. In
                                                              my estimation that is the SBDC acting as the hub and these local
                                                              community partners acting as the spokes. That is similar to how
                                                              our model has worked in the past. Oftentimes, particularly with
                                                              communities of color, underserved markets and rural markets,
                                                              folks really want to talk to somebody from their own community.
                                                              They want someone that looks like them that can identify with
                                                              them, and that is the strength in my estimation of the community
                                                              partners in this hub and spoke and approach.
                                                                 So I do believe it is going to be effective. I think the outreach can
                                                              actually be a combination of that provided by the hub, by the
                                                              SBDC, to make sure that folks are aware that the Community
                                                              Navigator Program exists and what it does, but then also those
                                                              local partners who can reach out specifically to the groups within
                                                              their local markets and bring clients into the program that way as
                                                              well.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you. I do really appreciate the work
                                                              that you do on behalf of Minnesotans and have spoken to many of




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                                                              your clients over the last several years who have been, you know,
                                                              very much aided by the work that you perform.
                                                                And during the Obama Administration we had Obamacare and
                                                              we had these community navigators then and there were some
                                                              problems with, you know, fraud and just other types of things. Are
                                                              there standards in place do you think with the Small Business Ad-
                                                              ministration that we can make sure that these folks are going to
                                                              be trained up properly and we won’t have any legal or ethical prob-
                                                              lems?
                                                                Mr. Strong, that is for you again.
                                                                Mr. STRONG. Representative Hagedorn, yes, I do—I believe SBA
                                                              does a great job of oversight of the program that we currently run,
                                                              our regular core program that has been in operation for 40 years.
                                                              They have strong measures in terms of metrics and goals that we
                                                              must achieve under that program. I believe the same will be true
                                                              under the Navigator Program. And as long as we have a clear ob-
                                                              jective as to what this program is to do and what it is to accom-
                                                              plish, I am fully confident that the SBDCs will absolutely come to
                                                              bat and make sure this program is successful, that it meets the ac-
                                                              tual challenges. That is already being demonstrated most recently
                                                              in this Northern California SBDC program.
                                                                So, absolutely, I believe we will—once we set clear objectives and
                                                              metrics for the program, we will be able to accomplish them.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. I hope Members on both sides would make
                                                              sure we do the proper oversight and follow up on that and make
                                                              sure what you are saying is going to work out.
                                                                Lastly, real quickly, on broadband access—and I will stay with
                                                              you, Mr. Strong, since we only have about 30 seconds—how impor-
                                                              tant it is that we make sure that folks, not just in rural commu-
                                                              nities, but all across the country, wherever they might be, have ac-
                                                              cess to broadband and high speed access in order to do their work
                                                              and to market their businesses and so forth?
                                                                Mr. STRONG. Thanks again for that question, Representative
                                                              Hagedorn.
                                                                Clearly the COVID pandemic underlined the importance of a
                                                              strong broadband network. When we are all confined to our homes
                                                              and required to work from our homes, without a strong broadband
                                                              network, we are sunk. And that is why I believe that support for
                                                              broadband funding is critical. Here in Minnesota the legislature is
                                                              contemplating large scale programs to improve and increase the
                                                              broadband network. I hope that the same—I trust the same is hap-
                                                              pening in other states across the country and I hope nationally we
                                                              can come to a broadband program that helps provide a stronger
                                                              network across the entire country.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you. I am out of time. Appreciate it.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. The gentleman’s time has ex-
                                                              pired. The gentleman yields back.
                                                                I will now recognize Representative Jason Crow, Chairman of the
                                                              Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce De-
                                                              velopment.
                                                                Mr. CROW. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you to all the wit-
                                                              nesses for coming in today. Really great testimony and really good
                                                              information for us to look at these programs and how to better im-
                                                              prove them.




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                                                                You know, when I think about the Community Navigator Pro-
                                                              gram I am reminded of this program in my district where the City
                                                              of Aurora actually partners with the local nonprofit, the Village Ex-
                                                              change Center; has a program called the Natural Helpers Program
                                                              where immigrants and refugees who have been here longer actually
                                                              help fellow immigrants and refugees who have recently arrived ac-
                                                              tually navigate nonprofit resources and find their way around the
                                                              community and better integrate it. And I think it is within that
                                                              spirit that the Community Navigator pilot program is trying to
                                                              help our underserved businesses the most.
                                                                So in that vein, starting with Ms. Shi, Ms. Shi, can you just tell
                                                              me your thoughts on what types of private, nonprofit that are best
                                                              suited to serve as community navigators?
                                                                Ms. SHI. Thank you so much for the question, Congressman.
                                                                We had the same experience at the start of the pandemic. After
                                                              the Paycheck Protection Program was rolled out, immigrant owned
                                                              businesses, refugee owned businesses, black owned businesses, you
                                                              know, came to us and they had not heard about these other SBA
                                                              programs or SBDCs. And so we trained local nonprofits, so non-
                                                              profits that they know in their community, that perhaps that they
                                                              have gone there for English classes or citizenship classes. And so
                                                              they started doing the one-to-one document preparation, outreach,
                                                              and education about the PPP and [Audio malfunction.]. Sometimes
                                                              you can open [Audio malfunction.] and, as you know, unique SBA
                                                              processes where there will be a host of hand holding and to get
                                                              them access [Audio malfunction.] three lenders that denied her
                                                              until we had a navigator that assisted her. And Pilar is much more
                                                              sophisticated compared to some of our small businesses and sole
                                                              proprietors [Audio malfunction.] to do this kind of work for the
                                                              ones that have the grassroots [Audio malfunction.] to our busi-
                                                              nesses, our sole proprietors, to all [Audio malfunction.] say do you
                                                              know about these programs [Audio malfunction.]. And thanks to all
                                                              of you [Audio malfunction.] PPP, but also be retroactive [Audio
                                                              malfunction.]. This is the kind of outreach that is important and
                                                              one they are made aware of the program, then our navigators like
                                                              hold their hand and go through the entire document preparation
                                                              for them. You know, because of the pandemic, for a lot of these
                                                              smallest businesses, this is their first interaction with a govern-
                                                              ment loan or a grant program, right. And so, you know, they are
                                                              afraid, they are concerned and it is—you know, we all know if you
                                                              check the wrong box, right, that affects your credit score. And then,
                                                              you know, getting them access to a lender.
                                                                So I would say the best types of nonprofits are not so much—you
                                                              know, in our experience, the ones that have done this work before,
                                                              but really are willing to get in the gutter and be on the ground and
                                                              hold the hands of our small businesses and get them through from
                                                              the beginning to the end. And we have a very, very rigorous ac-
                                                              countability measure. Because like with Pilar, we need to show
                                                              that the money—so.
                                                                Mr. CROW. Ms. Shi, I will—yeah, I will stop you there. I want
                                                              to give Ms. Zavala an opportunity to weigh in as well. But I appre-
                                                              ciate that perspective and your thoughts on that very much.
                                                                Ms. Zavala, any thoughts on what you think would be the best
                                                              nonprofits that could perform these types of services?




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                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Yes. Thank you for the question.
                                                                 I saw that the CDFIs, the small—really small one branch, you
                                                              know, banks, the Axiom—which now I think it is a different
                                                              name—those are organizations that are close to the small—what I
                                                              mean when I say close is they understand the issues they have
                                                              with not having the perfect P&L, right. I have a perfect P&L. I
                                                              didn’t have it 10 years ago. So understanding—I think what is good
                                                              about working with the local organizations is that they understand
                                                              how to work on the context of that small business, which banks
                                                              don’t understand.
                                                                 So and I think the issue of—you know, it is an issue of capacity.
                                                              There is a lot of—there is the SBA, but is there the capacity to
                                                              serve all of these? I think the numbers show that there is not the
                                                              capacity. We need more.
                                                                 Mr. CROW. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I am out of time, but
                                                              really, really great thoughts.
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you.
                                                                 Mr. CROW. Thank you very much.
                                                                 Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. The gentleman yields.
                                                                 I will now recognize Representative Roger Williams, Vice Rank-
                                                              ing Member of the full Committee.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your
                                                              leadership. Ranking Member, thank you. And our witnesses, thank
                                                              all of you for being here today.
                                                                 I am a small business owner myself. I have been in business 50
                                                              years and still have my business and employ hundreds of people
                                                              back in Texas. And I appreciate your stories. They are just so—
                                                              they show the power of this great country.
                                                                 Attending a trade school and learning a skill can be just as valu-
                                                              able as going to a traditional four year college. I am a strong advo-
                                                              cate of career and technical education programs and push back
                                                              against the belief that a college degree is necessary to get ahead
                                                              in America. If someone learns a skill they are on their way to even-
                                                              tually translating their abilities into starting their own small busi-
                                                              ness. However, learning how to run a small business is not easy
                                                              task, as we all know.
                                                                 So my question, to start out with, Ms. Weston, you touched a lit-
                                                              tle bit about this earlier, but maybe you can go deeper, can you dis-
                                                              cuss some of the largest challenges you see from young entre-
                                                              preneurs who come to your organization wanting to take a chance
                                                              and start their own businesses and how any way the SBA can bet-
                                                              ter utilize resources to spur new business creation? Because at the
                                                              end of the day, risk and reward is the American dream.
                                                                 Ms. WESTON. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
                                                                 And we know at SCORE that being an entrepreneur or a small
                                                              business owner—and you know this too—is challenging under the
                                                              best of circumstances. And this year has been hard on everyone.
                                                                 SCORE has data that there are some groups of businesses that
                                                              have struggled more than others, but being a business owner and
                                                              an entrepreneur you feel that you have to be that person who does
                                                              everything, that you—you know, you are the Jack or Jill of all
                                                              trades and you have to wear all of the hats. What SCORE and
                                                              SBDC and other organizations that provide technical support do, is




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                                                              we are that step by step guide to these businesses that help them
                                                              fill those gaps when they don’t have that information on the P&L,
                                                              like small business centers do. You might be an expert as, you
                                                              know, a plumber or a hair stylist, but you don’t necessarily have
                                                              that knowledge about how to do your accounting. That is where
                                                              SCORE and the SBA resources come into play. SCORE stands
                                                              ready for small business support for everyone. Some business own-
                                                              ers do have unique challenges. We have been talking about histori-
                                                              cally under-represented groups and rural business owners and
                                                              there are some needs that those groups have a greater need for,
                                                              and we can address those too.
                                                                 The important thing is, with 30 million small business owners
                                                              out there that we as the resource partners and the technical assist-
                                                              ance, get out there, get the word out, connect with these commu-
                                                              nity organizations that have the reach into those communities so
                                                              that these business owners know SCORE and other resource part-
                                                              ners are here to help and provide that support. And when the busi-
                                                              ness owner steps away and uses a mentor to answer those ques-
                                                              tions, they are much more likely to successful.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. That is great. I think your support find there
                                                              is a big difference between the sale of dollar and the gross of dollar.
                                                              So thank you for helping on that.
                                                                 Secondly, I think the Navigator Program has the potential to
                                                              help a large number of small businesses realize the resources that
                                                              they have at their disposal. However, in the past, there have been
                                                              some serious issues of fraud, and we have talked about that this
                                                              morning, and of leaking sensitive consumer information that led to
                                                              some security threats against individuals.
                                                                 Since we just allocated $100 million to this program, we must
                                                              make sure that we are making good—or being good stewards of
                                                              taxpayer dollars and not repeating the mistakes of the past.
                                                                 So, Ms. Shi, for you can you discuss what safeguards the SBA
                                                              should put in place to ensure that this program is not opening
                                                              itself up to waste, fraud, and abuse?
                                                                 Ms. SHI. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much, Congress-
                                                              man, for that question. And that is extremely important.
                                                                 So when we ran the navigator model in several states, including
                                                              Texas, Florida, and South Carolina, we asked all of our navigators
                                                              to show receipts for the PPP received by their small businesses. So
                                                              that is part of our accountability structure. You know, I think it
                                                              is very easy just to send a whole bunch of emails and do a webinar
                                                              and say that, you know, we assisted businesses, right, but we actu-
                                                              ally—especially during this global pandemic as our businesses are
                                                              struggling—we need to see that these funds are getting into the
                                                              bank accounts of our small businesses as well as staying with them
                                                              to go through the forgiveness process to turn the loan into a grant.
                                                              So that is number one.
                                                                 And number two is working with a trusted CDFI—and the I—
                                                              or financial institution, to make sure that, you know, all the Ts are
                                                              crossed, Is are dotted. And, you know, as we know with our finan-
                                                              cial institutions, there are also multiple layers of assurance and ac-
                                                              countability.
                                                                 But, so that is extremely important to us and this is taxpayer
                                                              dollars and these are the local engines of our economy. And so we




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                                                              need to make sure that these funds are getting to the folks that
                                                              need it the most.
                                                                Mr. WILLIAMS. Okay. Thank you to the witness. And I yield my
                                                              time back.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. The gentleman yields.
                                                                I will now recognize Representative Pete Stauber from Min-
                                                              nesota’s 8th District.
                                                                Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thanks to all the wit-
                                                              nesses for providing the testimony today.
                                                                And, Mr. Strong, thanks once again for coming to our Small
                                                              Business Committee hearing and testifying. I am sure all the Min-
                                                              nesota Members really appreciate you coming here again and giv-
                                                              ing us quality time.
                                                                I would just like to give you a moment to share what worked for
                                                              the Minnesota SBDCs, what has it looked like during the pan-
                                                              demic, and how has it changed from what you had done prior to
                                                              the pandemic?
                                                                Mr. STRONG. Thank you, Representative Stauber. Thank you
                                                              for those kind words.
                                                                What has changed for us is the sheer volume of the questions
                                                              and the demand that we are receiving from the public. Obviously
                                                              the Paycheck Protection Program and the EIDL loan programs
                                                              were critical to those small businesses that were most affected as
                                                              a result of the pandemic. And helping those businesses wade
                                                              through the myriad regulations for both programs, both the PPP
                                                              and EIDL loan programs, and the changing requirements that oc-
                                                              curred during the launch of those programs, just caused so much
                                                              confusion in the marketplace. We spent a great deal of time just
                                                              trying to decipher those changes ourselves and then interpret those
                                                              changes to the small business community so that we could most ef-
                                                              fectively help them apply for their loan, or help them apply for for-
                                                              giveness under the Paycheck Protection Program. We are still to
                                                              some extent struggling with issues regarding that. And this latest
                                                              deadline of the Paycheck Protection Program expiring and hope-
                                                              fully being extended just kind of creates ripples throughout that
                                                              program.
                                                                As Chairman Golden stated, SBA processed 14 years-worth of
                                                              loan applications in a 14-day period of time.
                                                                Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Strong——
                                                                Mr. STRONG. That, you know, by itself is going to cause prob-
                                                              lems.
                                                                Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Strong, I want to just thank you and your
                                                              organization for helping out the small businesses and helping with
                                                              the lending institutions, because when we passed that legislation
                                                              there were some blind spots. And when we knew better, we did bet-
                                                              ter with the flexibility portion afterwards.
                                                                Mr. Strong, prior to the pandemic northern Minnesota was
                                                              plagued with a childcare desert. The situation got worse during the
                                                              pandemic. In your testimony you mentioned that Minnesota SBDC
                                                              signed a contract with First Children’s Finance to provide special-
                                                              ized assistance to new and existing childcare businesses.
                                                                Can you elaborate on this? On the work you are doing?
                                                                Mr. STRONG. Certainly. Thank you again for the question.




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                                                                 First Children’s Finance has been around for a long time. They
                                                              are a nonprofit group, they are a CDFI as well. They specialize in
                                                              helping childcare businesses with all of the nuances, the legisla-
                                                              tion, and the requirements that are expected of a childcare busi-
                                                              ness. And so partnering with them the SBDC will help broaden—
                                                              the outreach will help broaden their outreach. It helps bring fund-
                                                              ing to them so they can pay additional counselors to come along-
                                                              side. But it also helps the SBDC because we can help with the
                                                              business aspect of running a childcare business, even though we
                                                              may not necessarily understand all of the nuances of those require-
                                                              ments.
                                                                 And you are exactly right, the childcare industry was struggling
                                                              even pre-COVID. In Minnesota we found that small businesses
                                                              were unable to grow because their employees weren’t able to find
                                                              adequate childcare, particularly in rural markets.
                                                                 We are hoping and trusting—we believe that partnering with
                                                              First Children’s Finance will be of great benefit to the SBDC and
                                                              all Minnesota businesses.
                                                                 Mr. STAUBER. And, Mr. Strong, I think that is really great
                                                              news because we know when there is adequate, secure childcare
                                                              that benefits the economy, especially coming out of this COVID cri-
                                                              sis. We want to make sure that the workforce is there to be had
                                                              and having safe, secure childcare is certainly a priority.
                                                                 So, Mr. Strong, once again, thank you for your testimony, and we
                                                              will see you shortly.
                                                                 And, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. The gentleman yields.
                                                                 I will now recognize Representative Claudia Tenney from New
                                                              York’s 22nd.
                                                                 Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
                                                              Ranking Member Hagedorn, and the witnesses as well. Great to
                                                              hear from all of you. And thank you for holding this important
                                                              hearing.
                                                                 Obviously the COVID-19 situation has been challenging for all of
                                                              us, all Americans, and especially our small business community,
                                                              which are truly the backbone of our economy. And I can’t empha-
                                                              size that enough. As a small business owner in New York’s 22nd
                                                              District, over 94 percent of the workforce in my district come from
                                                              small businesses. So our community’s success, our economic suc-
                                                              cess, depends on the success of our small businesses.
                                                                 Last week I launched a small business outreach tour to meet
                                                              with business leaders and employers across the 22nd District. So
                                                              far I have met with over 30 businesses, have spoken with hundreds
                                                              in the past, and have had the opportunity to discuss their priorities
                                                              and their needs for relief and recovery.
                                                                 The two common questions that I get are what programs and re-
                                                              sources are available and, second, how do we navigate some of
                                                              these cumbersome applications processes and rules. And I know as
                                                              a business owner, also as an attorney, federal programs, you know,
                                                              have helped thousands of businesses in my state, particularly in
                                                              our underserved and rural communities, which my district is. We
                                                              must continue to reach out to these underserved communities and
                                                              educate our employers on how to use these resources and their em-




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                                                              ployees. It is also imperative to understand that these programs
                                                              need to be made simpler and easier to use because so many small
                                                              business owners are so busy running their businesses they really
                                                              don’t have time to hire compliance teams and teams of lawyers.
                                                              And I know that as my business was started over 75 years ago and
                                                              I have been one of the owners for over 35 years, so I understand
                                                              how complex this can be. And I really appreciate our witnesses.
                                                                  And my first question—and some of these have been answered—
                                                              I would like to address to Ms. Weston. And first I want to say
                                                              thank you so much for SCORE. I have—as a business owner also,
                                                              many of my colleagues have used SCORE and it has been a won-
                                                              derful asset to people in the business community. So I just wanted
                                                              to ask you, so many of these business owners have said this is—
                                                              getting the money and the Navigator Program has been so
                                                              daunting. What do you consider the biggest barrier and what rec-
                                                              ommendations do you have to fix those issues? Briefly, if you could.
                                                                  Ms. WESTON. Well, thank you so much for the question, Con-
                                                              gresswoman. And maybe one day you will consider becoming a
                                                              SCORE volunteer since you are a small business owner yourself.
                                                                  So one of the things that we heard from our clients, especially
                                                              as it relates to PPP and EIDL, was just that Congress acted so
                                                              quickly, there was such a drive to help these small business own-
                                                              ers, and when things were really done quickly there was confu-
                                                              sion—how to apply, who can apply for these loans, what that proc-
                                                              ess is. And so what SCORE was able to do is set up our small busi-
                                                              ness resilience program, which paired mentoring, check list, and
                                                              step-by-step guides that were industry specific to help these busi-
                                                              nesses navigate the challenges they are facing.
                                                                  So we saw nearly 600,000 people through that portal to help an-
                                                              swer questions in a timely, specific, guided fashion so that we could
                                                              get them to the right lender, the right program, the right resource.
                                                              What we have seen is that these guides, mentors from SCORE or
                                                              other resource programs, are what can really help make these fed-
                                                              erally funded programs successful. And the communication would
                                                              be helpful across lines collaborating with other resource partners
                                                              and other agencies.
                                                                  Ms. TENNEY. And as you say that, I know you recommend more
                                                              communication. We also have state programs that are now going
                                                              to be enhancing some of the federal programs. And so that is where
                                                              I consider SCORE would be a great resource for us to be able to
                                                              access them.
                                                                  Thank you, though. I appreciate that.
                                                                  And for Mr. Strong, I wanted to ask a question about childcare,
                                                              which is really important to me as a single mom, how important
                                                              it is to have reliable safe childcare. But Mr. Stauber hit that ques-
                                                              tion, but I was just going to ask you in looking at this model, a
                                                              lot of businesses—this pandemic is forcing everyone to reimagine
                                                              their business model. And in response to the demand, what would
                                                              you say for the SBDC, what could we implement in a rural setting
                                                              to help people in a pandemic for the future and how do we best
                                                              reach out to some of these people in rural settings? I am running
                                                              out of time, but if you could answer real quick, I would appreciate
                                                              it.
                                                                  Thank you.




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                                                                 I guess I will yield my time back. I am sorry.
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. I lost your audio. I couldn’t get the question.
                                                                 Ms. TENNEY. Mr. Chairman, we will address it in another meet-
                                                              ing.
                                                                 Thank you so much. We will catch up with you in a private set-
                                                              ting.
                                                                 Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. The gentlewoman yields. Sorry about the
                                                              technical difficulties. And we can submit it for the record if you
                                                              like.
                                                                 Ms. TENNEY. Absolutely. You need more broadband. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. That is the truth.
                                                                 I will now recognize the Ranking Member of the full Committee,
                                                              Blaine Luetkemeyer from Missouri’s 3rd Congressional District.
                                                                 Welcome, Ranking Member Luetkemeyer.
                                                                 Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you
                                                              all of the witnesses.
                                                                 I have been listening in my office and trying to keep a lot of balls
                                                              in the air this morning here. I apologize for getting here a little
                                                              late. But, you know, one of the things that concerns me are—that
                                                              I have been watching here is that, you know, I had a meeting this
                                                              week with an SBIC group, a small business investor, and they were
                                                              telling me that they were doing basically what the navigator pro-
                                                              posal in this CARES Act, or the funding bill, actually was doing.
                                                              So I mean I am curious—you know, they were trying to bring to-
                                                              gether all the different groups, whether the chamber or the librar-
                                                              ies—in fact is one of the groups they were talking about, as well
                                                              as historic and black colleges that they were working with and
                                                              some other partners. So if they are already doing this, is this really
                                                              necessary? What is your—can you explain to me? Mr. Strong, for
                                                              instance, can you give me the reason why this is a good deal? Or
                                                              should we continue it or change it around? Or what is your sugges-
                                                              tion here?
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. I am sorry, Congressman. I lost the last part of
                                                              your question.
                                                                 Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay. I was curious as to whether you be-
                                                              lieved—or what your opinion would be with regards to the neces-
                                                              sity of the Community Navigators pilot program here in the
                                                              COVID relief bill because I was talking with some folks in SBIC
                                                              this week and they do the same thing—some SBDC folks that are
                                                              doing the same thing.
                                                                 So are we duplicating services I guess is my question?
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. Well, thank you, Congressman. I appreciate the
                                                              question.
                                                                 And, again, it is going to be a challenge. It is always a challenge,
                                                              especially when Congress is trying to act in as robust a fashion as
                                                              they are. It seems like a lot of these programs are duplicative, but
                                                              I think it is simply going to help increase the outreach and the ef-
                                                              fectiveness of the partnerships between SCORE, the SBDCs, the
                                                              Women’s Business Centers, and all of their local community organi-
                                                              zations to provide even greater outreach into markets that haven’t
                                                              historically been very well served.
                                                                 We continue to hear about underserved markets, particularly in
                                                              communities of color and in rural markets. The more folks we can




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                                                              have out there helping the existing small businesses and potential
                                                              small businesses, I think the better.
                                                                 Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Can you explain to me who all is going to
                                                              qualify for this money and how they get it?
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. No, I am afraid I can’t. We haven’t gotten the de-
                                                              tails of the program yet. I have only seen it in concept form. We
                                                              are anxiously awaiting what the actual details of the program will
                                                              be, eligibility criteria, and more importantly, or just as importantly,
                                                              the metrics and goals that we hope to achieve through the pro-
                                                              gram. I think that speaks to your question about effective use of
                                                              this funding. We need to have clear cut goals, we need to have
                                                              clear cut eligibility, and we need to have clear cut metrics for the
                                                              outcomes of the program to evaluate its success.
                                                                 Mr. LUETKEMEYER. If we are delaying—and SBA has got a lot
                                                              of balls in the air right now. They have got a lot on their plate and
                                                              I am very concerned about that. I am working with them on a lot
                                                              of other issues right now. And if it is going to be a delay in getting
                                                              this information out, putting this program together, how worth-
                                                              while is it if you wait until September to get it done, for instance?
                                                              If we wait, you know, 4 or 5 months here, is it still going to be ef-
                                                              fective? Or is it—at that point we will be over the hump, so to
                                                              speak, such that it is not going to be necessary?
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. Thanks again, Congressman for the question.
                                                                 I believe that the problem with underserved markets has been
                                                              around a lot longer than the COVID pandemic. I think anything
                                                              that we can do to help increase outreach to those markets is going
                                                              to be beneficial. You know, if a delay—and hopefully it won’t be 4
                                                              or 5 months before we get clearer marching orders on the pilot pro-
                                                              gram isn’t necessarily going to have an overall impact on its effec-
                                                              tiveness.
                                                                 Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Just a quick question for you with regards
                                                              to the other programs that are out there. I am not sure you are
                                                              involved with them, but just to kind of get your opinion on them
                                                              real quickly. With regards to the restaurant program, for instance,
                                                              are you working with any of the groups? Do you think that is going
                                                              to be pretty impactful, those restaurant grants?
                                                                 Mr. STRONG. I don’t think there is a more important program
                                                              out there than the restaurant grants. But, again, we have seen ab-
                                                              solutely no details on what it will do or how it will work. But I can
                                                              tell you—and Minnesota is not unique here—the hospitality indus-
                                                              try has been decimated as a result of COVID and the required
                                                              business closures that took effect as a result of that.
                                                                 So absolutely we must provide some support to the restaurants
                                                              and hospitality industry.
                                                                 Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Well, I think the key—I thank the Chair-
                                                              man for his diligence here—but I think the key is going to be how
                                                              these grants are doled out, how they are applied for, and how
                                                              they—what kind of oversight is provided over them because I think
                                                              it is a situation that is ripe for fraud if we are not careful. And I
                                                              think hopefully you will work with us to provide some expertise in
                                                              this so we can find a way to minimize that.
                                                                 With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
                                                                 Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. The gentleman yields.




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                                                                 And we would now recognize Representative Maria Salazar from
                                                              Florida’s 27th for 5 minutes.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Yes, and thank you very much, Chairman.
                                                                 I want to congratulate Ms. Pilar Guzman because I think you are
                                                              the epitome of the American dream and we need more people like
                                                              you in this country. People that came with really not knowing any
                                                              English, as you said, but willing to work and to take advantage of
                                                              this fantastic American dream, or the American system that the
                                                              Founding Fathers put together for people like you and me. So I
                                                              think that we not only have love, but gratitude for this country.
                                                              And I am sure that you feel the same way.
                                                                 And, look, not only were you able to come, you were able to stay,
                                                              you learned the language, you went to school, and then you put to-
                                                              gether a business, came COVID, and the government gave you
                                                              money so you could keep that business. Where does that happen?
                                                              Nowhere else. Is that true? Nowhere else. And that is why I con-
                                                              gratulate you and I think that we Hispanic Americans, first gen-
                                                              eration, we should celebrate what a fantastic country we have. And
                                                              that is why I am in Congress, because—and you are in business—
                                                              because we want to keep this system for the future of our children.
                                                                 Am I right?
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Yes, I support that 100 percent.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. and I just wanted to ask you, in which way we
                                                              could spread the word and help other businesses like yours, specifi-
                                                              cally in our district, Miami and south Florida in order to—what
                                                              else do you think we could do in order to send a message and give
                                                              the info to people like you in order to continue living the American
                                                              dream?
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Yeah, thank you for that question, Congress-
                                                              woman.
                                                                 I think that it is crucial that we support groups like ABIC, like
                                                              Impact Fund here in Miami. I saw how hard it was for me, and
                                                              I am a little bit sophisticated in the sense of, you know, I have sys-
                                                              tems in place, I have, you know, financials in place. It is so hard
                                                              as a small business to understand what the PPP was, how to apply
                                                              to it. You know, the bank wasn’t replying. So, you know, ABIC in
                                                              that sense helped me connect to the opportunity because I couldn’t
                                                              get in. With all my network in Miami, I could not get the PPP. So
                                                              imagine the majority of the businesses that don’t have that net-
                                                              work, that are not mentors to other businesses, that don’t have the
                                                              community connections, they need ABIC, they need Impact Fund.
                                                                 And what I say is, you know, it is great with the SBA, you know,
                                                              has done, you know, during the crisis and before, but we must rec-
                                                              ognize that the numbers don’t lie. This is not about parties or emo-
                                                              tions, it is about numbers. And so we need to look at the numbers,
                                                              who is getting the finance help. And why is it that the under-
                                                              served, you know, communities don’t have that access to financing.
                                                              And in this case the PPP—the PPP just highlighted the systemic
                                                              problem we have.
                                                                 And so I think that one of the challenges is that we need more
                                                              technical assistance, we need more, you know, guidance in how to
                                                              getting a small loan, because we are lost. Access to information and
                                                              having these local partners working one-on-one with businesses
                                                              that already know them, it is important.




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                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. And I thank you, because that is why I created
                                                              a prosperity center within my congressional office. And I am glad
                                                              that you are telling me that information is power. Because the
                                                              more info that we put out there into the community for people like
                                                              you—because like you said, that you had certain knowledge. There
                                                              are many other businesses that are not as sophisticated or have as
                                                              much information as you have.
                                                                 So thank you for that.
                                                                 I am not sure if I have to yield my time back or if I have a few
                                                              more minutes. I don’t have the——
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. You still have a minute to go if you would
                                                              like to ask another question.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. I could have—yeah.
                                                                 And now let me ask you this, what about the—like you were say-
                                                              ing, I have to definitely recognize the local people in the Impact
                                                              Fund, our local partners who are with the American Business Im-
                                                              migration Council, ABIC, to help you connect and to give you those
                                                              tools and that information, that technology or know that informa-
                                                              tion, basic knowledge in order to be able to navigate the system
                                                              and get to the money.
                                                                 Now, the info in Spanish, even though you were knowledgeable
                                                              in English, what else can we do for those people that also want to
                                                              live the American dream but still do not understand the literature
                                                              in English? What have you found out there? Do we need to promote
                                                              more material in Spanish?
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Yes. I mean I think that first we need to just have
                                                              the information available. You know, people were just lost in the
                                                              process. Like nobody knew what to do with the PPP. And so, yes,
                                                              it will be very helpful to have it in Spanish as, you know, the ma-
                                                              jority of our businesses here locally are Spanish speaker busi-
                                                              nesses. So certainly that is important and that is I think one of the
                                                              barriers for many of our businesses.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you very much for that info. Thank you
                                                              Ms. Guzman. Looking forward to meet you when I go down to
                                                              Miami.
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you, Congresswoman.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. I wish you a lot more success in opening up many
                                                              more Half Moon Empanadas shops.
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you.
                                                                 Ms. SALAZAR. I yield back. Thank you, Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
                                                                 I am going to ask a few more questions, so second round if Mem-
                                                              bers can bear with me. I certainly recognize if you are not able to
                                                              stick it out, however, Mr. Hagedorn, but if you do have more ques-
                                                              tions, I am happy to recognize you after.
                                                                 Thank you to the witnesses. Just a few more questions.
                                                                 One of them—I guess I will just follow up with you, Ms. Zavala,
                                                              because that was a really good exchange right there. You know,
                                                              early on in the pandemic my office was hearing from many, many
                                                              businesses who were very eager for help from EIDL, from PPP, had
                                                              a lot of questions. SBA staff were very busy working with the
                                                              Treasury trying to build the program, and as a result people were
                                                              really struggling to get information.




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                                                                 One of the things that the American Rescue Plan authorizes at
                                                              SBA is a call center, where business owners such as yourself could
                                                              call to get information, how do I apply, you know, what are the
                                                              guidelines, you know. Many people were very concerned about tak-
                                                              ing the loan not knowing how they might qualify for forgiveness.
                                                              These types of questions were everywhere. And as you said earlier,
                                                              people were very concerned.
                                                                 Do you think that having a call center that you could have called
                                                              at the beginning when you were contemplating the Paycheck Pro-
                                                              tection Program and things like EIDL, would have been helpful?
                                                              And would you have called it if it had existed?
                                                                 Ms. ZAVALA. Thank you for the question, Chairman.
                                                                 Yes. I mean I think that as the information is what was missing,
                                                              the access is what—sometimes people were lost. Even before the
                                                              pandemic, think about it, like where do you get financing. I get
                                                              those questions all the time when I do mentorship. I get texts from
                                                              companies, from people, I need support for this financing wise. Like
                                                              there is a lack of information. And so, yes, a call center—there was
                                                              an effort here in Miami led by the city Foundation where they put
                                                              together a website with like specific questions about where to get
                                                              the help during COVID, the loans or the individual help. And so,
                                                              of course, those are important efforts.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
                                                                 You know, I also wanted to say just thinking about the early
                                                              weeks and months of the pandemic and the emergency it caused
                                                              for a lot of small businesses, I actually had almost my entire team
                                                              establish what we called a task force completely focused on aiding
                                                              small businesses and accessing the EIDL and PPP. Even my D.C.
                                                              staff were on the phone lines trying to develop expertise to connect
                                                              business owners with assistance.
                                                                 And, you know, I think it was one of the beautiful things that
                                                              this Committee really took part in early on. Having had the PPP
                                                              established—it wasn’t perfect, we had to roll it out. And there was
                                                              a lot of great oversight done by the entire Committee that resulted
                                                              in follow on actions that improved the program over time and
                                                              more, you know, accurately targeted it where it needed to be to
                                                              have the biggest impact as time went on. A really important effort.
                                                                 And one thing I—you may be aware, maybe you are not—I actu-
                                                              ally voted against the American Rescue Plan, but as Chairman of
                                                              the Subcommittee I certainly intend to take part in that kind of
                                                              collaborative oversight to make sure that these programs are very
                                                              successful for all the businesses that are out there. Certainly there
                                                              is a lot of need that remains.
                                                                 So another question I wanted to ask for Ms. Shi, you ran the
                                                              pilot program on the Community Navigator Program in various dif-
                                                              ferent states, could you talk a little bit about some of the issues
                                                              you came across that SBA and this Committee should be aware of
                                                              in order to avoid those same mistakes occurring as the program
                                                              rolls out nationally?
                                                                 You are muted. I am sorry, ma’am. Go ahead, try again. Looks
                                                              like we may have some technical difficulties. We will submit that
                                                              one for the record.
                                                                 Ms. SHI. Is this better?
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Yes.




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                                                                 Ms. SHI. Oh, I am so sorry about that.
                                                                 Yes, so some of the issues that we identified were the access to
                                                              lenders, were for the sole proprietors, the Schedule C issues of not
                                                              being able to have a fuller relief through the calculating with the
                                                              gross income. And I would just say that because these were the
                                                              boots on ground, it sounds similar, Chairman, with your office. Al-
                                                              most seems like you had your whole team as navigators. But really
                                                              holding these small businesses’ hands to get these loans and then
                                                              helping to turn the loans into the grants were some of the issues
                                                              and that we reflected back to the Committee, to the Chairwoman
                                                              Velázquez—and thank you for her leadership on this—and to try
                                                              to get the program major improvements over time as we have seen.
                                                                 And just the other issue I think a couple of times that has come
                                                              up about the accountability and the anti fraud measures. The other
                                                              thing that we did in our program is to make sure the navigators
                                                              and organizations that weren’t producing, that were not helping
                                                              businesses get the money in the bank, were defunded from the pro-
                                                              gram, right. So that this is—we are in a pandemic, we are in an
                                                              emergency, we require high performance and that these businesses
                                                              like Pilar’s, and even smaller employers, do get the funds that they
                                                              deserve and do it quickly, so.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. My time has expired on the sec-
                                                              ond round. So I did want to make sure to offer an opportunity for
                                                              further questions to the Ranking Member.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. I have no more questions at this time. I would
                                                              be happy to yield to our Ranking Member for any further question.
                                                                 But thank you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Very good.
                                                                 Well, I want to thank all of our witnesses for joining us today
                                                              and all of the feedback that you provided. And certainly appreciate
                                                              you bearing with us through all the technical difficulties that exist
                                                              out there. Some people have commented on the side here more evi-
                                                              dence of the need for this Committee to stay focused on access to
                                                              high speed internet, particularly for small business owners all over
                                                              America. And I think I heard the Ranking Member comment he
                                                              looks forward to having everyone back in the Committee. I couldn’t
                                                              agree more.
                                                                 But, with that, just some closing remarks.
                                                                 You know, to the witnesses, your testimony today will be valu-
                                                              able as the Administration and this Committee moves forward to
                                                              stand up and fine tune the Community Navigator Program. For a
                                                              nearly a year COVID has hit underserved, agricultural, and rural
                                                              small businesses particularly hard. Congress has taken many steps
                                                              to make relief programs such as the Paycheck Protection Program,
                                                              EIDL, and others there for small businesses more accessible, equi-
                                                              table, and to ensure that our small businesses get the greatest, you
                                                              know, help out of this Congress and these programs as possible.
                                                              But certainly there is always room to continue to make improve-
                                                              ments.
                                                                 Today we have heard about the impact that this program could
                                                              have in underserved small businesses. That is why Committee
                                                              Members need to do everything we can to ensure that the program
                                                              is sped up and run effectively and efficiently without waste on get-
                                                              ting the help into the hands of those who need it the most.




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                                                                 So, with that, I look forward to continuing to work with my fel-
                                                              low Committee Members and the Committee staff as we take a
                                                              look at the roll out of this program and continue to support things
                                                              like the Paycheck Protection Program, as we just extended the abil-
                                                              ity of small businesses to access that program through the remain-
                                                              der of the month of March.
                                                                 With that, I think I will go ahead and close it out and ask unani-
                                                              mous consent that Members have 5 legislative days to submit
                                                              statements and supporting materials for the record. And, without
                                                              objection, so ordered.
                                                                 [Whereupon, at 11:34 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
                                                                 [Ms. Pilar Guzman Zavala did not submit her QFR’s in a timely
                                                              manner.]




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                                                                                                   APPENDIX




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