Sustainable Forestry's Role in Climate Solutions (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, September 29, 2021)
Summary
The printed record of a hearing, Sustainable Forestry's Role in Climate Solutions, held September 29, 2021 by the Subcommittee on Underserved, Agricultural, and Rural Business Development of the House Committee on Small Business, Small Business Committee Document Number 117–033. Hon. Jared Golden and Hon. Jim Hagedorn gave opening statements. Four witnesses testified: Dana Doran, Executive Director of the Professional Logging Contractors of Maine, Augusta, ME; Dr. Adam Daigneault, Associate Professor of Forest Policy and Economics at the University of Maine, Orono, ME; Mark Thibodeau, Regional Manager of ReEnergy Stratton LLC, Carrabassett Valley, ME; and Scott Dane, Executive Director of the American Logger Council, Gilbert, MN. The appendix carries their prepared statements and additional material from the American Loggers Council.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Sustainable Forestry's Role in Climate Solutions (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, September 29, 2021).”
Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/sustainable-forestry-s-role-in-climate-solutions-house-small-business-9e7fa9dbf9/
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SUSTAINABLE FORESTRY’S ROLE IN CLIMATE
SOLUTIONS
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED,
AGRICULTURAL, AND RURAL BUSINESS
DEVELOPMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
HEARING HELD
SEPTEMBER 29, 2021
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–033
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
45–582 WASHINGTON : 2021
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
TROY CARTER, Louisiana
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Jared Golden ................................................................................................... 1
Hon. Jim Hagedorn ................................................................................................. 3
WITNESSES
Mr. Dana Doran, Executive Director, Professional Logging Contractors of
Maine, Augusta, ME ............................................................................................ 7
Dr. Adam Daigneault, Associate Professor of Forest Policy and Economics,
University of Maine, Orono, ME ......................................................................... 9
Mr. Mark Thibodeau, Regional Manager, ReEnergy Stratton LLC,
Carrabassett Valley, ME ..................................................................................... 11
Mr. Scott Dane, Executive Director, American Logger Council, Gilbert, MN .... 13
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mr. Dana Doran, Executive Director, Professional Logging Contractors
of Maine, Augusta, ME ................................................................................. 31
Dr. Adam Daigneault, Associate Professor of Forest Policy and Econom-
ics, University of Maine, Orono, ME ........................................................... 35
Mr. Mark Thibodeau, Regional Manager, ReEnergy Stratton LLC,
Carrabassett Valley, ME .............................................................................. 41
Mr. Scott Dane, Executive Director, American Logger Council, Gilbert,
MN ................................................................................................................. 46
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
American Loggers Council ............................................................................... 52
Biomass and Carbon Neutrality ...................................................................... 58
Future Logging Careers Act ............................................................................ 62
Grandfathering Roads Being Transferred to the Interstate System ............ 65
Interstate Route Corridor Legislation ............................................................ 67
Mill Closure Due to Federal Timber Supply .................................................. 68
National Policy of Forest Management and Wildlife Press Release ............ 71
Outdoor Recreation Roundtable (ORR) ........................................................... 73
RFS Congressional and EPA letters ............................................................... 75
Safe Routes Act ................................................................................................. 79
Sustainable Forestry Initiative Statement ..................................................... 83
(III)
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SUSTAINABLE FORESTRY’S ROLE IN CLIMATE
SOLUTIONS
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 2021
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED,
AGRICULTURAL, AND RURAL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:04 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jared Golden [chair-
man of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Golden, Carter, Delgado, Williams,
Hagedorn, Stauber, and Salazar.
Chairman GOLDEN. Good morning, everyone. I call this hearing
to order.
And, without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a re-
cess at any time.
I am going to begin in noting some important requirements. Let
me first say that standing House and Committee rules and practice
continue to apply during hybrid proceedings.
All Members are reminded that they are expected to adhere to
standing rules, including the rules of decorum. House regulations
require Members to be visible through a video connection through-
out the proceedings, so keep your cameras on. Also, please remem-
ber to remain muted until you are recognized, in order to minimize
background noise. If you have to participate in another proceeding,
exit this one and log back in later.
In the event a Member encounters technical issues that prevent
them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
next available Member of the same party, and I will recognize that
Member at the next appropriate time slot, provided they have re-
turned to the proceeding.
For Members and staff physically present in the Committee room
today, in accordance with the attending physician’s most recent
guidance, Members and staff who attend this hybrid hearing in
person will be required to wear a mask in the hearing room. Fur-
thermore, all Members and staff who have not been fully vac-
cinated must maintain 6-foot social distancing. With that said,
Members will be allowed to briefly remove their masks if they have
been recognized to speak. That includes those who are here with
us testifying today, as well Mr. Dane.
I will now do a quick brief opening statement, kind of brief; we
will see.
(1)
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In the State of Maine, we are home to a strong logging and forest
products industry, and it has been that way throughout our his-
tory. Thousands of Mainers make their living in the woods or in
mills, making things out of wood fiber.
The industry has faced tough times in recent decades for a vari-
ety of reasons, from trade policies, outsourcing of jobs, demand
slumps, and more. The loggers and other forest products workers,
many of them small businesses, love what they do, and they have
kept at it as a way of making a good living and as a way of life.
That is important because small businesses in the forest products
industry and the sustainable forestry they practice in Maine are
primed to play an important role in the growth of renewable energy
in combatting climate change in the years to come. It is a great op-
portunity for small businesses in rural heavily forested States like
Maine and for the communities that they call home.
America’s forests and woodlands are vast. These natural re-
sources cover about a third of the country and nearly 90 percent
of my State. These forests house diverse wildlife, improve air and
water quality, sequester carbon dioxide, and provide critical re-
sources for the U.S. and countries worldwide. Sustainable forestry
seeks to manage forests to support the natural forest resources and
ecosystem services we need now and in the future. These practices
include protecting forests from wildfire, pests, and diseases, and
preserving forests.
I am proud to say my home State of Maine has many landowners
and businesses that use these practices. We have a healthy forest
as a result.
Sustainable forestry can also help combat the impact of climate
change, which has already begun to hurt forest health across the
country. Unpredictable temperature changes, drought, fire, and
invasive pests pose a fundamental threat to our beloved woodlands.
Fortunately, sustainable forestry can maintain and restore car-
bon sequestration in forests, helping to fight climate change and
keep our forests intact. The people doing this sustainable forestry
are often small businesses. As I said, they are logging operators,
forest products companies, biomass facilities, and many more.
These are folks who create jobs and keep their local economies
moving, while keeping our forests healthy and contributing to ef-
forts to mitigate climate change.
And as we are seeing, the market for the products that sustain-
able forestry produces is full of potential. Woody biomass, such as
waste from logging and milling, can be used in industrial applica-
tions to produce steam and electricity, reducing the use of fossil
fuels. Cross-laminated timber is being used in buildings in the U.S.
and across the world. And innovative new forest products hit the
market every year.
Keeping our forests healthy helps to promote sustainability, ad-
dress climate change, and ensure that small businesses and work-
ers in rural areas share in the economic benefits.
As Congress looks to address and mitigate the negative sides of
climate change and bolster American small businesses with the bi-
partisan infrastructure bill and other legislation, we should support
industries that help on both fronts.
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I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how policies
can be put together here in Congress that will help them to be suc-
cessful businesses, as businessowners, that will help them to con-
tinue to make a living the way that they choose and enjoy while
also taking part in good sustainable forestry that makes for a
healthy forest.
I would now like to yield to Mr. Stauber who is—I am sorry, I
am not yielding to Mr. Stauber for opening statements; rather, rec-
ognizing Ranking Member Hagedorn for his opening statement.
And it is a real pleasure to be here with you today. Thanks for
joining us. And I was very glad to find out you would be attending
this morning.
Mr. HAGEDORN. I thank you, Chairman. Appreciate you hold-
ing this hearing. And I look forward to the witnesses’ accounts. You
could have yield to Mr. Stauber. He is quite an expert on these
issues, and I look forward to hearing some of his comments in just
a little bit.
Minnesota, like many places around the country, home to some
beautiful forests and provide us incredible scenery, but also some
awesome products that we use every day and we rely on every day.
And this hearing is a lot about how we can help small businesses
to continue to provide those types of products to the American peo-
ple. And let’s face it, there are distinct similarities in the economic
challenges facing small businesses in any rural economy, whether
it be agriculture, forestry, mining, or whatever sector. All rural
economies are vital and important to the health of our country, and
forest product sector is no different.
Forest products make up about 1.5 percent of the total U.S. econ-
omy and contribute about 5 percent of America’s total manufac-
turing output. That is quite large when you think about it. And for
many rural States, timber is the economic cornerstone contributing
a substantial amount of employment income.
The timber provides higher than average wages, a variety of op-
portunities for employment, manufacturing sales, and a host of
other economic opportunities, all contributing to a robust and dy-
namic rural forest economy.
Rural forest economies depend on the tireless efforts of small
businesses executing forest management practices day in and day
out. Historically, the timber industry has—primarily consists of
small, multigenerational, family-owned businesses with less than
20 employees. People would think they are actually probably big
companies. Not so. The margins generated by these businesses are
slim. Just 1 to 3 percent on average. And they assume millions of
dollars in bank loans for expensive logging equipment on top of
daily operating needs.
So, you know, there is a lot at risk, a lot at play. Our small busi-
nesses are on the hook, and still those margins are very small. We
have to do what we can to help.
This places significant financial pressure on small businesses to
harvest timber year-round. Unfortunately, current events have ex-
acerbated the economic challenges these small businesses are al-
ready facing in this industry. The COVID-19 pandemic shuttered
schools, offices, and other industries reliant on paper. Pandemic-re-
lated closures of essential links and forestry supply chain, such as
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mills and other wood consumers, have placed timber harvesters
and haulers in a vise, threatening their incomes.
Compounding the problem are recent increases in operational ex-
penses due to skyrocketing inflation, such as the rising cost of fuel,
which has culminated in a 10 to 40 percent loss in revenue for
many small businesses compared to the same timeframe in 2019.
Small businesses in the timber industry are also grappling with
significant, longer-term economic consequences stemming from the
recent heavy wildfire activity. Small businesses lost valuable log-
ging equipment, suffered from idle operations, and saw their in-
comes go up literally in smoke as millions of acres of revenue-gen-
erating timber were badly burned or damaged. These losses will be
felt for generations, as it takes decades for lands to be rehabilitated
and new growth to mature for harvest.
Congress must work in bipartisan fashion to help better serve
the forestry industry. One bill out there, H.R. 2612, the RESTORE
Act, introduced by my friend, Congressman Doug LaMalfa of Cali-
fornia, would allow for landscape sale of management projects to
give foresters a more reliable access to federal timber, which often
gets tied up with unnecessary litigation. This is especially impor-
tant to the countless number of foresters who depend on a reliable
source of federal timber and serve as partners in the Forest Service
efforts to properly manage our forestlands to prevent fires.
Congressman LaMalfa offered the RESTORE ACT as an amend-
ment to the agriculture bill. I was there and voted for it, but unfor-
tunately it was blocked by the majority.
To close, I would like to highlight just one more challenge facing
small businesses in the American forestry industry, namely, its
aging and declining workforce. The Bureau of Labor Statistics
projects that over 7,000 openings for logging workers, on average
for each year over the next decade—so 7,000 jobs open each year
for—during this next decade. This logging has been characterized
as difficult, dirty, dangerous, and even declining. However, the
adoption of modern technology is attempting to disrupt this percep-
tion, creating a more high-tech working environment from qualified
and skilled tradesmen to mechanical engineers.
I hope from the testimony of our esteemed panel we will learn
more about how we can reignite interest in this noble profession,
grasp a better understanding of the economic realities, and try to
have some good government policies in order to further their busi-
nesses.
With that, I yield back.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
I would like to take a moment to explain how the hearing will
now proceed. Each witness has 5 minutes to provide a statement,
and each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for questions.
Please ensure that your microphone is on when you begin speaking
and that you return to mute when finished.
We will now quickly introduce our witnesses.
Our first witness is Mr. Dana Doran, executive director of the
Professional Logging Contractors of Maine. Prior to representing
Maine’s independent logging contractors, he served with both pub-
lic and private organizations, including the U.S. Department of
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Labor, the Maine Department of Labor, Central Maine Power Com-
pany, and Kennebec Valley Community College.
Thank you for joining us today, Dana.
Our second witness is Dr. Adam Daigneault—you will have to
forgive me if I mispronounce this, sir—associate professor of Forest
Policy and Economics at the University of Maine. He is the head
of the UMaine Forest Policy and Economics Lab. His research fo-
cuses on a wide range of issues, including freshwater management,
climate change mitigation and adaptation, and assessing the socio-
economic impacts of environmental policy on the natural resource
sectors.
Thank you for joining us today.
And I can tell you they do amazing work, the University of
Maine, and they are great partners with folks like the logging con-
tractors and the forest products industry in the State.
Our third witness is Mr. Mark Thibodeau, regional manager for
ReEnergy Biomass Operations in Maine. ReEnergy’s bioenergy fa-
cilities transform sustainably sourced woody biomass, other wood
waste, and other organic residues into renewable clean energy that
provides power to thousands of homes and businesses in Maine.
Mr. Thibodeau is a lifelong Mainer and a graduate of the Maine
Maritime Academy.
Thanks for joining us today.
And Mr. Stauber will now introduce the minority witness.
Mr. STAUBER. Well, thank you, Chairman Golden and Ranking
Member Hagedorn, for your leadership on this Committee. It has
been wonderful to work with you.
You know, northern Minnesota is blessed to have a rich forest
landscape and a robust logging and milling industry, acting as a
keystone of our State’s economic engine. Therefore, I look forward
to the discussion ahead of us today on the role of small business
and forest management and carbon sequestration.
First of all, forest management, and especially logging, means so-
lutions. Forest management is a solution to preventing and miti-
gating wildfires. Forest management is a solution to ensuring sus-
tainable public lands. Forest management is a solution in facili-
tating recreation. Forest management is a solution for economic de-
velopment and job creation. And forest management is a solution
to sequestration of carbon.
And all of these solutions through forest management is driven
by the small business community. In my district and nationwide,
tens of thousands of loggers work in private, county, State, and fed-
erally owned forests, creating jobs and finding solutions. So let’s be
clear, so-called climate solutions are impossible without logging
and forest management.
For example, in Minnesota and throughout the nation, our
loggers plant three trees for every one harvested. As we all know,
these living trees sequester carbon and, towards the end of their
lifecycle, create more jobs. On the other hand, a dead tree that falls
into the woods isn’t just a proverb; it emits carbon into the atmos-
phere and provides fuel for wildfires, multiplying its carbon inten-
sity.
Our forests sequester 15 percent of American’s carbon each year.
But this is impossible without the proactive management and re-
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forestation efforts of small logging companies throughout our na-
tion. However, our logging businesses are discouraged due to this
administration’s mounting crisis and poor policymaking.
And here are several examples. Transportation fuel costs are up
exponentially. Why? This administration opted to ban domestic oil
and gas development and instead rely on OPEC to provide the
fuels our small business truckers need to move the product to mar-
ket. Skyrocketing energy prices and economic shutdowns endanger
mills, meaning fewer markets for logs and timber products. Pas-
sage of big land bills and amendments that take federal lands com-
pletely offline mean our loggers can’t proactively manage our for-
ests, they can’t clear dead trees, and they can’t help to prevent
wildfires.
Furthermore, older loggers are aging out of this profession. And
because there is more land offline and fewer markets than ever be-
fore, the younger generation doesn’t see the promise of those future
logging jobs.
Burdensome regulations for public land management, coupled
with lawsuit after lawsuit from activist groups, complicate project
permitting and tie up projects in legal costs.
Moreover, this administration’s nominee to lead the Bureau of
Land Management endangers the lives of loggers. In Idaho, with
tree spiking, a form of eco-terrorism, illustrating further hostility
to these small business loggers. I don’t know of a way to discourage
logging more than to nominate someone who willfully put lives of
loggers at stake as a leader of one of our largest land management
agencies.
So in order for responsible forest management to continue, we
need to support policies that encourage instead of discourage log-
ging. We need cheap, reliable energy for transportation and the
powering of our mills. We need to expedite the process for compli-
ance. We need to reform our broken NEPA process and keep
loggers in the woods, not in the courtroom.
We need to pass my own bill, the Healthy Forests for Hunters
Act, which streamlines environmental reviews for timber projects
on federal land that benefit wildlife habitat, simultaneously sup-
porting forest management and boosting hunting opportunities na-
tionwide. And we need to vote against land packages and amend-
ments that halt responsible management.
We need to encourage loggers to grow into the profession with ro-
bust workforce—with a robust workforce, pipelines, and adminis-
trators of land management agencies that aren’t a threat to our
small business and our logging community.
If we do these things, we will empower our small business
loggers and truckers to do what they do best, which is manage our
forests, find solutions, including climate solutions.
With all that said, I am pleased to introduce a constituent of
mine as the Republican witness today. Scott Dane currently serves
as the executive director of the American Loggers Council, which
represents nearly 10,000 small businesses and 50,000 employees
and spans 30 States. Prior to this role, Scott served as executive
director of the Minnesota Associated Contract Loggers and Truck-
ers, our State’s association representing the small businesses that
play a key role in northern Minnesota’s economy.
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There are few who can speak with more authority than Scott on
timber and transportation. As he tells us in his opening remark,
our loggers are key to forest health and a thriving economy. As a
once-in-a-half-a-century wildfire raged across northern Minnesota,
the loggers Scott represents played a key role in creating fire
breaks and working to mitigate the damage.
Scott, thank you for your advocacy, and thank you to the loggers
for their hard work, and their families. I look forward to your testi-
mony.
Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
I am now going to go to our witness testimony. And we will begin
with Mr. Doran, who is recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF MR. DANA DORAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
PROFESSIONAL LOGGING CONTRACTORS OF MAINE, AU-
GUSTA, ME; DR. ADAM DAIGNEAULT, ASSOCIATE PRO-
FESSOR OF FOREST POLICY AND ECONOMICS, UNIVERSITY
OF MAINE, ORONO, ME; MR. MARK THIBODEAU, REGIONAL
MANAGER, REENERGY STRATTON LLC, CARRABASSETT VAL-
LEY, ME; AND MR. SCOTT DANE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
AMERICAN LOGGER COUNCIL, GILBERT, MN
STATEMENT OF DANA DORAN
Mr. DORAN. Good morning, Chairman Golden, Ranking Member
Hagedorn, and Members of the Committee on Small Business, Sub-
committee on Underserved, Agricultural, and Rural Development.
My name is Dana Doran, and I am the executive director of the
Professional Logging Contractors of Maine.
The PLC of Maine is the voice of independent logging and associ-
ated trucking contractors throughout the State of Maine. Our orga-
nization was formed in 1995 to provide contractors with a voice in
a rapidly changing forest industry. I appreciate the opportunity to
speak before you today.
As of 2017, logging and trucking contractors in Maine employed
over 3,900 people directly and were indirectly responsible for the
creation of an additional 5,400 jobs. This employment and the in-
vestments that contractors make contribute more than $620 million
to our State’s economy each year. Our membership, which includes
about 210 contractor Members, employs over 2,500 people and is
responsible for 80 percent of Maine’s annual timber harvest.
Thank you very much again for providing me the opportunity to
testify on behalf of our membership in the state regarding sustain-
able forestry’s role in climate solutions. Thanks as well for recog-
nizing the work of our national partner with the American Loggers
Council and having Mr. Dane before you today.
Whether it is here in Maine or across the United States, the tim-
ber harvesting community is a vital part of the responsible man-
agement of our nation’s forests, as well as a vital partner in cre-
ating solutions for preservation of our climate.
Many on this Committee might find it odd for a trade association
that represents loggers and truckers in the state, typically a con-
servative group, to stand before you today to discuss how timber
harvesting can be part of the solution and not part of the problem
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as it relates to climate change. With that in mind, I can say with
great honesty that this perception is not reality when it comes to
Maine’s logging and trucking community.
Over the last 20 years, we have learned to recognize and prepare
for our role in climate mitigation through our work on the ground.
We have been accustomed to wildly changing weather patterns,
mud seasons that extend not just weeks but months, and the influ-
ence of invasive species and pests in the forest. As a result, the
timber harvesting community has been required to adapt quickly.
Two decades ago, our Members could work between 46 and 52
weeks a year. Mud season was restricted to the months of April
and May, but now, our members are limited to work between 38
and 44 weeks per year. It is clear to Maine’s legacy industry that
climate and weather patterns have indeed changed, and this
change is adding cost and lowering profitability.
During the same time, there has been an ad hoc approach to
both technology and public policy. While well intended public policy
changes for the respective mandates have brought about positive
change on one side, I can tell you that they have had a negative
impact upon our industry.
One primary example of this is the use of tier 4 engines, which
has been mandated by both Congress and the federal government.
While the technology has been positive in terms of curbing emis-
sions, and we have fully adopted it, it has also added cost in terms
of 25 to 50 percent to every piece of equipment used in this indus-
try over the last 10 years.
Loggers and truckers are price takers and have no ability to
charge more for the work that they do. And so it is our opinion that
changes like this can have a positive impact, but you have got to
take into consideration the negative impacts at the same time.
Loggers and truckers were never included in the discussions that
took place in Congress related to this policy change, and, therefore,
we just ask that going forward we are included for any future
changes that take place.
From a state perspective, I would like to touch upon what Maine
has done in terms of a leadership role. Our current Governor, Gov-
ernor Janet Mills, has created a climate council as well as a forest
carbon task force. I have been a Member of both the climate council
as well as the forest carbon task force over the last two years.
In terms of the Mills administration climate action plan, it has
been very obvious that forests are part of a carbon storage and cli-
mate mitigation strategy, especially timber harvesting contractors.
But, there must be incentives to promote high-quality, on-the-
ground performance by loggers and investment in low-impact har-
vesting equipment. To achieve both goals, contractors must work to
reduce emissions and minimize impacts, but there must be finan-
cial incentives to do so.
Here in Maine, we have something called the Direct Link Loan
Program, which has been funded by U.S. EPA water quality fund-
ing. It has been a help to lower the cost of harvesting equipment,
but at the same time we don’t have enough funding. And I would
ask this Committee to consider including more funding for that
program and making it a statewide—excuse me, a nationwide pro-
gram.
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Lastly, our Master Logger Program, which we created here in the
State of Maine back in the year 2000, which is the world’s only
third-party certification program for logging contractors, has now
been adopted in 19 other States and has been adopted in three
other foreign countries and is on target to expand to an additional
three other foreign countries in the future. It is similar to the For-
est Stewardship Council as well as in addition to the Sustainable
Forestry Initiative.
And I would ask that Congress take a hard, fast look at this and
try to adopt it for federal agencies, federal forests. We would like
to see the federal government actually adopt it as a requirement
for working on federal forests, not just forest management stand-
ards with SFI and FSC, but also look at third-party certification for
timber harvesting contractors at the same time.
In my written testimony today, you will see the benefits of the
Master Logger Program, where it has been adopted, why it is so
important, and why third-party certification of logging companies
and not just training for loggers is more important in the long run.
So, with that, I think I have come to the end of my testimony.
I am happy to answer any questions at the end of the hearing by
any Members.
And, again, I would like to thank Congressman Golden and
Ranking Member Hagedorn for inviting me today and participating
before the Committee. Thanks very much. Appreciate your time.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
Dana, you got to see if you can screen-share some photos of me
on some of the equipment up there for the Members down here,
driving around, you know, learning a thing or two.
But it is a great program he was talking about. We will have
more time to talk about it later.
Next up—I am not going to do you the disservice of butchering
your last name. Adam, you are up. And you can call me Jared any-
time.
You are still on mute.
STATEMENT OF ADAM DAIGNEAULT
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. My apologies.
All right. Thank you, Chairman Jared Golden, Ranking Member
Hagedorn, and Members of this Subcommittee, for holding this
hearing today and the opportunity to testify on this important
topic. My name is Dr. Adam Daigneault, or Daigneault—as our
namesake comes from your hometown of Lewiston, Jared—and I
am an associate professor of Forest Policy and Economics here at
University of Maine. I have been working on issues related to for-
est management economics and policy for nearly two decades.
Forests across the globe are highly valued for their diverse eco-
system services, including timber, fiber, and fuel resources, carbon
sequestration, freshwater habitat, recreation, and cultural values.
As noted by Member Hagedorn’s opening remarks, across the
U.S., forest-related businesses support at least 3 million jobs and
generate around 5 percent of total manufacturing GDP. However,
forest resources across the country face increasing pressures from
shifting markets, land use change, policy, and climate change.
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U.S. forest systems, ecosystems, and the wood they produce are
a large carbon sink. Our forest sector removes more than 12 per-
cent of annual greenhouse gas emissions. And while forest carbon
stocks are increasing in this country, it is uncertain if this trend
will persist with changing socioeconomic and climatic conditions.
Thus, forests have an immense potential to help mitigate climate
change if landowners are provided adequate incentives and tech-
nical assistance.
Forest carbon is a low-cost climate solution, and nationwide se-
quester rates could double with the proper incentives. For example,
Maine’s forest and wood products already remove about 70 percent
of the State’s annual greenhouse gas emissions, expect to be a huge
contributor to achieving their net-zero emissions target by 2045.
Sustainable forest management and harvests are key to enhanc-
ing forest carbon sinks. Without this, forests grow slower, are less
resilient to climate change, and sequester carbon at lower rates.
And a wide range of sustainable forest management practices
should be used to promote climate solutions while maintaining tim-
ber supply. These include quickly regenerating sites with climate
change resistant species, reducing the risk of loss to natural dis-
turbance, conducting treatments to increase growth, and using effi-
cient, climate-friendly harvesting practices.
Markets are really key to maintaining the health and sustain-
ability of our forests. Finding new uses for wood and supporting
rural communities to ensure vibrant workforce can improve forest
health. Robust and stable timber markets enable to carefully plan
harvest of trees that allow forests to have appropriate stocking lev-
els, balanced age classes, and species diversity.
Continued research and development into new and more efficient
uses of wood are critical to supporting our rural economies. These
include wood bioenergy, biofuels, mass timber, nanocellulose-based
products, and bioplastics. The University of Maine is researching
many of these innovations thanks to grants from the USDA, DOE,
NSF, and more.
As noted, markets play a key role also in keeping forests as for-
ests. Land is a commodity, and low-value land risks being con-
verted to alternative uses. We need to promote markets for all
grades of wood and forest uses that will help maintain or increase
its value, incentivize management, and reduce deforestation.
Timber harvesting is necessary to meet both societal needs and
mitigate climate change. Nearly 20 percent of our forest carbon is
in harvested wood products, which can be substituted for emis-
sions-intensive materials like steel and concrete. Incentivizing
practices that maintain our increased harvest and carbon will be
a win-win for society and the climate.
Wood-based bioenergy is part of the climate solution. Bioenergy
markets increase forest value and incentivize removal of wood that
otherwise dies and releases carbon. Putting this to use can reduce
fossil fuel emissions. A federal renewable energy standard for
sustainably harvested biomass would improve low-grade wood mar-
kets.
Several federal programs could be utilized to incentivize forest
management and enhance carbon sinks. These include the USDA’s
Natural Resources Conservation Service programs like EQIP and
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CSP, and the U.S. Forest Service’s Forest Stewardship, Forest Leg-
acy, and Forest Inventory Analysis programs, to name a few. En-
hancing these programs can improve forest conditions and wood
utilization, thereby increasing both carbon stocks and the flow of
timber products.
Additional funding must be devoted to reducing the risk of wild-
fire and other natural disturbances. Maintaining or increasing fed-
eral tax incentives, like the management and reforestation deduc-
tions, will incentivize landowners to actively manage their land for
timber, carbon, and other co-benefits. We must continue to support
research and economic development in the forest products and land
management sectors through federal grants from the USDA, DOE,
NSF, EDA, and others.
The opportunities and challenges for sustainably managing our
forests for timber, carbon, and other ecosystem services are notably
complex. Given the recent changes to our forest ecosystems in the
wood products sector, there is more need than ever to employ the
very best science to inform decision-making. We must continue to
research and promote opportunities that simultaneously improve
the resilience of our forests and the rural economies and people
who depend on this key natural resource.
Thank you again for the opportunity to speak on this topic. I in-
vite you all to visit Maine and see all the great things that are
going on at our universities and working forests to implement sus-
tainable forest management and grow our forest economy.
And, Representative Golden, I look forward to seeing you again
in December at the Millinocket Marathon.
Thank you.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Professor Daigneault. Did I get
that one better? Getting closer?
So, actually, growing up, I always wondered why my great-
grandmother called me ‘‘Jerod’’. And they came down out of like
Chicoutimi, to the Lewiston area. But the French-speaking tradi-
tion stopped with my mother’s generation, at least with me, but it
sounded familiar, Lewiston area.
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Yeah, it is the same for me as well, but——
Chairman GOLDEN. Absolutely. By the way, I am not sure that
I have a half marathon in me. That was a brutal race. That was
a cold day. And I had a good time, and it was for a great cause.
And you want to talk about an old mill town, very, very much re-
lated to this.
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Yeah. And it is an excellent way to—you
know, innovative ways that people are trying to, you know, prop
up the rural communities.
Chairman GOLDEN. Yeah, that is right. Absolutely. Thanks,
Professor.
Next, we will hear from Mr. Thibodeau.
STATEMENT OF MARK THIBODEAU
Mr. THIBODEAU. All right. Good morning, Chairman Jared
Golden, Ranking Member Jim Hagedorn, and Members of the Sub-
committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to
discuss sustainable forestry’s role as a climate solution. I will be
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speaking specifically to wood energy as a climate solution this
morning.
My name is Mark Thibodeau. I am a lifelong Mainer, and I am
a graduate of Maine Maritime Academy with a degree in marine
systems engineering. I live in Maine’s Second Congressional Dis-
trict, and I serve as regional manager for the energy biomass oper-
ations. I have managed five biomass power plants in Maine in the
course of my career as well as five in California.
In Maine, ReEnergy operates two biomass power facilities, both
in the Second Congressional District. We operate a 39-megawatt fa-
cility in Livermore Falls and a 48-megawatt facility in Stratton. We
use sustainably harvested forest and mill residue as fuel to gen-
erate baseloaded renewable electricity. I like to stress the
baseloaded portion of that.
The Stratton facility supplies—also supplies and provides elec-
tricity directly to the adjacent lumber mill. Our wood ash from the
Stratton facility is also used by more than a hundred Maine farms
as a soil amendment for balancing soil pH and enhancing nutrient
levels, and has also been approved as an organic fertilizer.
ReEnergy also operates a 60-megawatt biomass power facility in
New York, the ReEnergy Black River facility, which is located in-
side the fence at the U.S. Army installation of Fort Drum. That
plant provides all the post’s electricity from behind the meter, cre-
ating inner security and resiliency.
And, lastly, we operate a 50-megawatt Albany Green Energy fa-
cility that is a 50-megawatt biomass heat-and-power facility located
in Albany, Georgia. This facility supplies electricity to Georgia
Power and steam to Proctor & Gamble and a nearby Marine Corps
Logistics Base.
I would like to discuss how biomass energy supports sustainable
forestry. Sustainable forestry is an important contributor to miti-
gating climate change and reducing the risk of wildfire. When for-
ested lands are maintained and harvested in a sustainable way,
the forest continues to grow and consume atmospheric carbon.
Wood markets and wood utilization are essential to forest main-
tenance. Without an outlet for owners to sell their harvested wood,
the owners are more likely to sell the land for other uses.
Biomass product is an important component of the larger wood
market. After the higher value fiber is sold to make lumber, fur-
niture, or paper, the landowner is left with lower value fiber like
tops, the limbs, and thinnings that cannot easily be made into
other wood products. When these leftovers or residues are sold to
a biomass power facility, the landowner is able to further capitalize
on that harvest, and the unusable fibers go toward generating
baseloaded renewable energy.
The biomass power facilities are located primarily in rural areas
with active forests and/or agricultural economies. In some areas,
biomass power facilities are actively involved in the reduction of
catastrophic wildfires by repurposing forest debris that is very haz-
ardous during wildfire season.
Our fuel suppliers follow best management practices that ensure
sustainable forest management. In all of our communities, forest
growth greatly exceeds removals.
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What are some of the carbon benefits of biomass? Energy gen-
erated from biomass is recognized as having carbon benefits by
most scientists as well as many environmental organizations and
regulators. This is because the carbon released by biomass power
generation is already part of the carbon cycle circulating between
the atmosphere and the biosphere. Thus, like other types of renew-
able energy, including wind, solar, geothermal, and hydro, biomass
energy production displaces greenhouse gas emissions that would
have been produced had that energy been generated from fossil
fuels.
Even though the combustion of biomass generates biogenic emis-
sions of CO2 on a gross basis, when the lifecycle benefits of bio-
mass are calculated, the net emissions for biomass are considered
neutral or negligible, depending on the type of biomass. My written
testimony provides much more information on the carbon benefits
of biomass.
With respect to federal policy issues, we are active Members of
the Biomass Power Association, and it often seems to us that bio-
mass power is the least understood renewable energy resource. We
have been working for years to urge the Environmental Protection
Agency to implement the electricity portion of the renewable fuel
standard and activate its biomass pathways, for an example, and
to address definitional interpretations of the term ‘‘biomass’’ in the
Renewable Fuel Standard.
Without equitable policy support, it can become difficult for bio-
mass to serve as a robust part of the country’s renewable energy
portfolio. We have been trying to address tax inequities that
prioritize the growth of other renewable technologies at the ex-
pense of biomass and other baseloads.
Regarding the role of biomass in underserved communities, there
are many underserved communities across the country that rely on
forestry for income, with biomass being part of their revenue
stream. For example, Native Americans are the largest owners of
commercial forestry resource in the United States, controlling 16
million acres of forestland. Some of our fuel at our facilities here
in Maine comes from Tribal land managed by the Penobscot nation.
My written testimony provides additional examples of underserved
communities involved in the forestry sector.
So, with that, I appreciate the opportunity to provide testimony
today to the Committee, and I thank you for your public service.
Please feel free to contact me at anytime with questions or con-
cerns.
And as always, Representative Golden, you are always welcome
for a plant tour, as well as any other Members.
Thank you.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. And now we will hear from Mr.
Dane.
STATEMENT OF SCOTT DANE
Mr. DANE. Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Hagedorn, and
esteemed Committee Members of the Subcommittee on Under-
served, Agricultural, and Rural Business Development, I appear
before you today on behalf of the American Loggers Council, a non-
profit timber industry trade association representing 30 States, to
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address the role that forest industry performs in supporting sus-
tainable forestry and the contribution that healthy managed forests
provide in addressing climate issues.
Put simply, loggers ensure healthy forests. As a Minnesota DNR
commissioner told a prior governor, Governor, the Minnesota DNR
doesn’t manage the forests; the loggers do it for us. Public and pri-
vate land managers cannot accomplish their healthy forest objec-
tives without loggers. Healthy forests depend upon a healthy, sta-
ble, sustainable timber industry. You can have both, but you can-
not have one, healthy forests, without the other—loggers.
The logging industry represents jobs in rural America. Although
the timber resource continues to increase, logging capacity con-
tinues to decrease. This is the result of minimal profit margins,
high capital investment requirements, forest products, mill clo-
sures—or forest product mill closure due to shifting markets, in-
cluding the COVID pandemic, for traditional forest products such
as paper, and workforce development challenges.
For the most part, loggers have not seen much, if any, increase
in the delivered price for wood sold to mills in the last 10 years.
While they are in the same period, equipment costs have increased
30 percent, insurance premiums have increased 20 percent, and,
recently, fuel prices have increased 50 percent. When lumber prices
skyrocketed this year, most loggers did not see any benefit, and in
some cases actually experienced price cuts.
From a workforce development perspective, the timber industry
workforce is aging, with the median age being well over 50 years
old. The workforce is predicted to continue to decline by 14 percent
over the next 8 years.
Logging is difficult and dangerous work, but those risks should
not reflect it in the wages and benefits paid. Logging is not com-
petitive with other comparable industries, and younger workers are
not entering the logging industry at the rate that older workers are
leaving.
One of the greatest challenges is transportation. There is not
enough trucking capacity to meet the demand. Additionally, insur-
ance rates in some regions are $10,000 to $15,000 per truck per
year. Trucking is the weak link in the timber industry supply
chain.
The American Loggers Council has submitted a briefing paper as
part of our full testimony that addresses these challenges, and pro-
poses legislative and policy changes that would provide assistance
in resolving some of these issues.
However, this is about more than rural agricultural jobs. Healthy
forests are vital to addressing climate change and, particularly,
carbon sequestration. Nothing absorbs and stores more carbon than
forests. That is why the global Trillion Tree Initiative was joined
by the United States in recognition of the carbon sequestration role
that trees provide.
We need young, healthy, diverse, and growing forests, not over-
mature, dead, diseased, and dying trees, and certainly not burning
forests. Older forests absorb and sequester two-thirds less carbon
than younger forests. If we don’t agree upon that, then the timber
industry will have limited opportunity to contribute to sustainable
forestry as part of carbon sequestration and climate solutions.
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Poor forest management does not create healthy forests, but in-
stead negates the potentially positive benefits that would otherwise
be achieved from sustainable forestry practices. This is evident in
the increase in wildfires in the U.S. and around the world. Global
wildfire carbon dioxide emissions are at record highs.
The Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service of the EU found
that burning forests released 1.3 gigatons of carbon dioxide last
month alone; the highest since the organization began measure-
ments in 2003. The U.S. was a leading contributor. Scientists are
concerned that areas with dense vegetation, including many of our
national forests, have become the source—are becoming a source
rather than a sink of greenhouse gases.
A recent study that the U.S. Forest Service participated in ac-
knowledged that a warming climate has extended the wildfire for
obvious reasons. However, the study found that climate change ac-
counts for just 14 percent of the influence of more destructive
wildfires, while noting that live fuel was the largest factor account-
ing for 53 percent.
Last May, I had the opportunity to fly over and survey the after-
math of wildfires in California. A video of the helicopter survey was
produced and is included in my full testimony for the Congres-
sional Record. If that video does not initiate an honest, science-
based dialogue to develop a new national policy on forest manage-
ment, wildfire mitigation, timber salvage, and restoration, nothing
will.
Sustainable forestry practiced and performed by the American
timber and forest products industry is part of a solution in meeting
the objectives of climate initiatives. However, it is entirely depend-
ent on the rural jobs that the timber and forest products industries
provide. The timber industry, healthy forests, and rural jobs are
the climate solution.
Thank you. I look forward to answering your questions.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you all very much for your opening
statements here.
We are going to get to the Q&A portion now, and I will go ahead
and kick things off with my 5 minutes.
I think both Mr. Dane and Doran talked a little bit about some
of the pandemic-driven related struggles of the logging industry
over the last year. And as you both know, no doubt the Maine dele-
gation in particular, although we have certainly had allies here in
Congress, to get additional support for loggers and logging truck
drivers that have been struggling through the COVID-19 pandemic.
Could you talk a little bit about how the COVID-19 pandemic im-
pacted the timber industry and why relief was needed for these
small businesses at the same time that consumers were seeing
higher lumber prices? In addition, can you talk about the success
to date of the program? I know they haven’t closed out the applica-
tions, but what do you expect in regards to the overall success of
the program? And what are you concerned about as you look for-
ward over the next year?
And I think we can start with Mr. Doran. Mr. Dane, if we have
some time, you can comment.
Mr. DORAN. Sure. I would be happy to. Thank you, Chairman
Golden, Jared. And I do have photos of you. If you would like me
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to screen-share, I would be happy to put them up so there is actual
proof of your work in the woods. I will look for your discretion on
that.
So in terms of your question, you know, starting with the pan-
demic and the impact. So in 2020, you know, we saw, basically, the
pandemic start before it even came to the United States. As a re-
sult of the pandemic and its impact upon China and the Far East,
we started to see markets start to close or be reduced as far back
as January of 2020, and it just dissipated from there, between pulp
and paper impacts, saw log products, obviously, disruption of de-
mand paper products, whether it is in office buildings or res-
taurants, et cetera. In 2020, our Members saw a drop of between
30 and 50 percent, and that has just compounded over the last 18
months.
You alluded to what has happened with saw log markets. All of
you read the headlines of sky-high lumber prices. I can tell you
firsthand that here in the state, it wasn’t a supply and demand
issue. The log yards were full, and so there was a very high supply
from the contractors that provide those solid log products to manu-
facturers. And then, obviously, demand was sky high. So it was not
a simple supply and demand issue. Money literally just did not
trickle down to the supply chain.
So we have been hit by a double whammy, so to speak. We are
very, very thankful for the work of our Maine delegation, especially
Jared Golden and Senator Susan Collins, and the rest of our dele-
gation, for providing the pandemic assistance for timber harvest, as
in haulers, that was included in the omnibus appropriations bill
that passed Congress back in December of 2020, and finally hit the
street by USDA in late July of this year.
Maine has taken the lead with respect to applications in that
program. We are nearing nearly 300 applications. So we are
pleased to see that folks are taking advantage of it. We don’t know
yet, you know, how much they have applied for and how much of
the $200 million is actually going to get to them.
I will say this, the agricultural community and fishing commu-
nity has seen nearly $30 billion of aid. The logging community,
which has never had a handout or a hand up, so to speak, by the
federal government is only going to get about $200 million nation-
wide. It is a pittance.
You know, again, we are not looking for the federal government
to bail out every contractor, but this funding is certainly going to
help. But, you can tell by the impacts that I am giving you that
it is not going to do a tremendous amount, but it is going to help
those in need to get to the other side of this.
So I will allow Mr. Dane to reflect nationally, but those are the
impacts here in the State.
Mr. DANE. Thank you, Chairman. Real quick, yeah, the—from
my estimation to this point, the funding eligibility across our na-
tion will exceed the $200 million appropriation, which is a testi-
mony to the need for the funding that was out there and every-
thing else.
How did the pandemic impact the industry directly? Interestingly
enough, Congressman Stauber’s district had a mill announce a clo-
sure about 15 months ago directly related to the impacts of the
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drop and demand for paper products in the offices and schools and
that type of thing and permanently closed that mill, as well as an-
other mill in Wisconsin that permanently closed, that accounted for
20 percent of the timber consumption in Wisconsin alone. So it had
direct and indirect impacts. The assistance has proven helpful.
Chairman GOLDEN. Well, I am out of time, but I am going to
just take a little bit of privilege. Any estimate at all on what the
actual eligibility demand would look like if every logging contractor
that needed help ended up getting some?
Mr. DANE. Chairman Golden, yes, the U.S. Forest Service con-
ducted a study of the financial impacts as a result of the pandemic
and estimated just slightly over $1 billion. The American Loggers
Council did a survey with a consultant that estimated a $1.8 billion
negative impact directly resulting from the pandemic. So, yeah,
those are a couple of estimates of the entire fiscal financial impact.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. I will certainly have another
round of questions later.
Mr. Hagedorn, you are recognized.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dane, we will kind of stay with you. So listening to your tes-
timony, it is clear that, as Congressman Stauber brought up, this
forest management is very important. If we don’t manage the for-
ests properly, we are in big trouble on a number of fronts. And it
seems interesting to me that a lot of times you get into States like
California where they have a lot of fires and it doesn’t seem to be
that the forests are managed properly, and a lot of that is extreme
environmentalists getting involved, either at the political level or
at the grassroots level, and preventing people from going in there
and basically cultivating the forest.
I represent a farm area. I grew up on a farm. And, you know,
forest products is just another crop. So I would have it over at the
Agriculture Department and everything else.
So it is kind of interesting that they don’t let you go in and do
what you need to do in order to protect the forests. And then when
they burn down, they say, look at it, it is all climate change. But
then according to your statistics, no, it is not. It is about 8 to 1 or
7 to 1, not doing proper management.
So getting into it, though, you have lots of things going on that
are cutting into your bottom line, driving up your costs; obviously,
inflation, things of that nature, policies, and just bad government
policies. I think there are some bad government policies on the ho-
rizon that might hurt your small businesses. We are looking at the
majority party raising taxes again that may be making it more dif-
ficult for businesses to expense their items in current years and
things of that nature.
The tax reform bill that was passed under President Trump, I
think, helped most of your Members. Would you not agree with
that?
Mr. DANE. Mr. Hagedorn, absolutely, I would agree with that.
As Congressman Stauber mentioned, the margins are typically 1 to
3 percent. Any increase in taxes on this capital-intensive industry
would cut into that. As marginal as it is, that in the industry can-
not afford to absorb additional increases in expenses.
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Mr. HAGEDORN. You don’t know of any Members that are ask-
ing for their taxes to be increased at this point, right?
Mr. DANE. No, sir.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Secondly, let’s look at these big government
items. You know, regulations at the federal level can affect you.
Energy costs, you brought that up. And, you know, what is going
on in the climate change arena, those things are going to drive up
the cost of energy, make our energy less reliable. That can’t help
your bottom line.
And then you get into some of these EPA requirements on your
heavy equipment and trucks. And I think it was brought up by tes-
timony in one of the others where you go from tier 3 to tier 4, and
the difference might be this much, just this much more in trying
to clean up the environment, but the cost is enormous to industries
and driving up consumer costs.
Can you address that a little bit?
Mr. DANE. Well, my counterpart, Mr. Doran, did reference that,
and he is correct. The cost of going to tier 4 has had a lot of unin-
tended consequences, negative consequences, first and foremost, by
adding tens of thousands of dollars to the prices of a truck alone
or equipment, so that is a problem. Dealing with the servicing on
those systems that tier 4 requires, it brings out service technicians
out that are driving more out to the equipment.
So I think when you are taking all the indirect impacts, it would
be marginal, at best, that there would be any environmental im-
provements associated with the tier 4 equipment.
Mr. HAGEDORN. And then you brought up a point about how
important the trucking industry is to your industry or combined in
many ways, and now you don’t—you have a shortage of drivers, not
enough trucks on the road at a time. My understanding is, at any
one time in the United States, each day there might be a thousand
big trucks on the side of the road because of these tier 4 require-
ments, and they just shut down and you have to get technicians
out. There are no technicians, you know. A lot of these places are
offering up $10,000 bonuses for technicians to start.
One of the pieces of legislation that I have is the American Work-
force Empowerment Act that says that if families have saved for
college education for their kids, that they should be able to use that
money, not just for 4-year college, but for technical school, certifi-
cate programs, the training for these types of things, you know.
People are going to do the diagnostics on the truck and then the
purchase of tools and equipment.
Do you think that would be the type of legislation, anything to
get more people in the trades and more people into the dirty jobs,
as I think Mike Rowe refers to them?
Mr. DANE. Mr. Hagedorn, absolutely, that is one of our biggest
challenges. We are having a conference in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho,
next week. One of the seminars is on workforce development. And
my counterpart in Maine will be speaking on that, Mr. Doran. They
developed a great program in Maine to enter the pipeline for work-
ers in the timber industry.
Mr. HAGEDORN. If we do have a second round, maybe we can
talk with him a little bit more about that. Thank you.
I yield back.
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Chairman GOLDEN. Next up, we will recognize Rep. Troy Carter
from Louisiana.
Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
My question is for Dr. Daigneault. I am interested to hear more
about the climate solutions that forest provides. Forests provide
important ecosystems services such as sequestering carbon. Forests
products, by their very nature, are comprised of carbon and durable
wood products, storing carbon for years.
As you know, the sustainability is an issue that is very impor-
tant to me. I would love to hear your thoughts on what can be done
and what else is happening in the area of bolstering climate solu-
tions through our forestry.
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Yes. Thank you, Representative Carter. So
some sort of big solutions that are often referred to when you think
about utilizing forests are sort of three-tiered. So one is keeping
forests as forests, so effort that we can put into conserve forests but
not necessarily in a pure preservation perspective, but to ensure
that it is not converted to alternative uses such as, you know, strip
malls and things like that.
Another one is to basically improve the forest management on
forests that are already out there. So what can we do—and a lot
of the things that we have discussed today is what can we do to
incentivize landowners to get into the woods more, better treat the
land that they have, and implement different practices to get what
we call ideal stocking levels so that trees basically have space and
resources to grow.
And the third one is to basically take sort of marginal land that
might be not best utilized and figure out how to reforest that area,
to essentially expand the footprint that we can.
All three of those are proving to be very cost effective if you sort
of compare the level of sort of incentive that you might have to pro-
vide to a landowner relative to, you know, electrifying our transpor-
tation system or putting in solar panels or something like that.
The key also is the healthier that we can get our forests by going
in and managing and sort of freeing up space and allowing trees
to grow faster, taller, wider, is that that will allow us also to basi-
cally utilize a higher proportion of the wood into what you noted
as sort of durable wood products, right. And so the longer—the
more—so the faster we can get trees to grow larger, taller,
straighter, healthier, the more that we can basically convert that
into 2 by 4s, furniture, other things that could be basically storing
that carbon for decades, even when it is removed from the stump,
thereby also allowing sort of the opportunity for the next genera-
tion of forests to sort of grow in its place and continue to sequester
more carbon.
Mr. CARTER. Let me just do a followup, Doc. My time is going
to run out. But I just want to ask one follow-up question that—how
do working forests differ from forests under conservation, and do
they play different roles in terms of sustainability and climate solu-
tions? What is the difference between the two and the roles they
play?
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Sure. So in a place like Maine, Maine, about
20 percent of forests are actually under some sort of condition of
what we would consider conservation. But in Maine, 85 percent of
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that forest that is under conservation is actually also designated as
what we would call working forests. So they might be owned by
conservation groups or they might be actually, you know, owned by
family forest companies that basically want to have their land con-
served in the sense that they don’t want it to be converted to alter-
native uses, but they still want to manage that land for timber
products, wildlife habitat, clean air, clean water. And so they might
take a slightly different perspective than say, you know, a pure
commercial landowner to some degree, but they are still managing
for multiple uses of which timber is a strong part of it.
So we really have to be careful when we say ‘‘conservation’’ and
not align that purely with preservation or not basically doing any
sort of management or harvesting from that land. A lot of con-
served forest is still what we would consider working forest.
Mr. CARTER. And is there competition between the two? Is
there a conflict there?
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Not necessarily. There might be that the
landowners that have their land under conservation might have
different objectives than what you might want to think of as a sort
of pure commercial landowner or forestry company, but everyone
tends to acknowledge that harvesting is part of the solution, right.
But it is just part of one of many sort of suite of services that we
can get from how we manage our land.
The key is that we have to think about this from very much a
landscape perspective and sort of commercial landowners, small
family landowners, conservation landowners, they all can sort of
work together to help get—sort of meet society’s needs at large.
Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Okay. I see my time is up. I yield. Thank
you very much.
Chairman GOLDEN. We will now recognize Representative
Roger Williams from Texas 25.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the
witnesses for coming here today.
And my first question is for Mr. Dane. As you know, forestry-re-
lated small businesses are crucial to providing jobs and revenue to
our communities, and we have talked a lot about that today. When
I talk to loggers and lumbermen back in Texas, I constantly hear
concerns surrounding the labor shortage.
Recently, I met with a second-generation, family-owned small
business in your industry from my district who told me that they
are struggling to keep up with current demand because of many of
their workers have decided not to return to work and the X genera-
tions are joining in the forestry, and they are not doing that. So
the federal government should be encouraging individuals to get
back to the workforce rather than incentivizing them not to work
and stay at home.
So, Mr. Dane, can you speak more on how the labor shortage is
affecting the small businesses that your organization represents?
And, secondly, is there a specific policy that made the labor short-
age worse in the last year and a half?
Mr. DANE. Mr. Williams, thank you very much for the question.
And I was just down in Texas a couple of months ago visiting with
your timber industry down there. It is a great organization.
Mr. WILLIAMS. It is a great State too, isn’t it?
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Mr. DANE. Absolutely, sir. I have got a survey here that the
American Loggers Council did in 2019, actually, before the pan-
demic, which references that 97 percent of those surveyed said it
is virtually impossible to replace or add new hires to their oper-
ations. That is an ongoing problem that we have.
Now, with the added—I will be honest with you. With the added
unemployment benefits, I was talking to a logger in International
Falls, Minnesota, that said he is going to have to give his guys a
raise to offset the additional unemployment that they are receiving
to entice them to come back to work. So it is a problem.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Competition and access to capital play a funda-
mental role in our economy, and the government must not impede
entrepreneurship and innovation but, rather, ensure that American
small businesses can succeed and grow without unnecessary gov-
ernment interference, and you just touched on that. Paying people
not to work is too much of an interference.
Burdensome regulations have real impacts on small business
owners and the communities who depend on them. I am a small
business owner, have been for over 50 years, and I know how ex-
cessive regulations can hinder growth and competition. We work—
I am in the car business. We work on the same margins you do,
so any movement one way or the other is tough on the industry.
And we do not need a top-down, one-size-fits-all approach, but,
rather, a properly regulated economy that creates opportunity for
everybody.
So, again, is the logging industry properly regulated, do you
think, and do you have concerns that the new focus on the green
policy regulations will be harmful to the competitiveness and prof-
itability of your Members?
Mr. DANE. From a regulatory perspective, I am happy to say
that at local, State, county levels, the regulation is not really exces-
sive. But when you get to the federal level, it is extremely burden-
some. The NEPA requirements and the ESA requirements have
been weaponized by those that want to just stall and litigate na-
tional forest management plans.
Mr. WILLIAMS. So you have all the regulations you need to deal
with right now, don’t you?
Mr. DANE. We do not need any further regulations, Mr. Wil-
liams.
Mr. WILLIAMS. All right. Thank you.
Small businesses are finally beginning to recover from COVID-
19 pandemic, and the last thing they need is for Congress and
President Biden to raise taxes. We have talked about that. Raising
taxes in this time is crazy, and the infrastructure bills that Demo-
crats are pushing forward and attempting to pass this week will
raise the corporate tax rate and drive up inflation, making goods
and services more expensive. That is the bottom line.
Despite the White House claim that this will cost nothing, which
is a complete lie in my mind, the cost will inevitably be passed on
to individuals or businesses, and many businesses can’t pass it on
to individuals, so they have to eat it, and they have to let people
off to pay for it. So increasing taxes will cause businesses to hire
less people and invest less back in the economy.
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So, Mr. Dane, quickly, can you discuss how tax increases would
impact the small businesses that you represent? And if taxes are
increased and your margins remain the same, which probably
would not be, would that mean passing the cost on to the con-
sumer?
Mr. DANE. Well, I would like to answer the last part of that
question first. Loggers do not have the ability to pass on that cost
to consumers. Loggers are paid based on what the mills determine,
and as Mr. Doran referenced, dictate will be paid. And so it is one
of the only industries in the country that I am aware of that you
don’t have the opportunity to tell your consumer what you are
going to sell them the product for. They tell you what they are
going to buy it for. So they don’t have that opportunity.
Second, these are small businesses, and some are corporations,
so that increased corporate rate would directly impact these family
businesses.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. Stay the course. There is help com-
ing.
I yield my time back.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
I will now recognize Rep. Pete Stauber from Minnesota 8.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Dane, for appearing
here. I am going to put you on the spot. My good friend from Texas
just says Texas is a great State. Texas or Minnesota?
Mr. DANE. Minnesota in the summertime.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here.
You know, we talked about the loggers and our truckers at the
forefront of responsible management. You know, how is the sky-
rocketing cost of fuels for transportation and energy affect a small
logging and trucking businesses?
And I will just share with you. I was at a logging site just west
of Grand Rapids, you know, Rajala Timber, and they talked about
the cost for fuel and energy to run the machines. How has that af-
fected—how is it affecting the industry and the ability to move for-
ward?
Mr. DANE. I will give you a quick example, Congressman
Stauber. You know, Scheff Logging in Marcell, Minnesota, I think
their fuel expenses are about a million dollars a year, maybe 1.2,
1.3. You add 50 percent—yeah, 50 percent increase in fuel cost
right there, you are talking a half a million dollars for one company
alone. So it definitely is a burden to the industry and one that is
unfortunate that has occurred in the last 8 months.
Mr. STAUBER. You know, also in your testimony, Scott, you dis-
cussed the Trillion Trees Initiative, which is embodied in a bill in-
troduced by my colleague, Representative Westerman. How do the
reforms in that bill, such as streamlining NEPA, make it easier for
your industry to do its job and, in turn, support forest health and
carbon sequestration?
Mr. DANE. Well, let’s go back to the Trillion Tree Initiative,
which is a global initiative to plant a trillion trees around the
world to, you know, absorb more carbon. It makes a lot of sense.
When it comes to the NEPA reforms that are necessary—that are
critically necessary, that are hampering forest management at the
federal level, I was at a meeting, and I think they were talking
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about at one time a NEPA report was about 75 pages long. Now
it is 600, 700 pages long.
I was out there in California. We took a helicopter tour of the
aftermath of the wildfires in May. We were up there for 6 hours.
We toured 3 million acres of burned land—3 million acres of
burned land. And when you look down and you see what is going
on in privately owned and managed land, they are salvaging the
timber, they are restoring the land, they are replanting on there.
If you look at the adjacent federally managed timber, nothing is
happening. No salvage is going on. No reclamation is going on. And
that is all because of all the NEPA requirements that just are used
to hamper forest management.
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Dane, if you had one request from the EPA
for your industry, maybe two requests, what would they be? How
can the EPA help your industry with decisions?
Mr. DANE. Congressman Stauber, thank you for asking. I think
that would probably be a question that the Chairman would also
like to hear. And I know Dana Doran and myself have been work-
ing for 3 years, at least, with the EPA on the biofuels and the re-
newable fuel standard and feedstock eligibility.
The EPA has misinterpreted the RFS. Their interpretation is
contrary to all other public and private timber management organi-
zations, and that is impeding the development of renewable fuels
from forest-based feedstock. They need to accept those pathways
that were talked about for feedstock to be eligible for RFS and RIN
credits, and we have got hundreds of millions of dollars prepared
to be invested in this new technology which, again, goes back to re-
newable fuels but forest-based.
If we could overcome that, there would be a new plant built in
Minnesota, your district. There would be a new plant built in
Maine, and there is a plant being built right now in Oregon. It is
a $330 million plant that would also benefit from the EPA acknowl-
edging that their interpretation of eligible feedstock is incorrect.
Mr. STAUBER. Well, thank you. In light of my short amount of
time, I do know that Chair Golden and Ranking Member Hagedorn
and I, we have all discussed that, and it is a priority, I know, for
the Chair and Ranking Member, and I stand with them in helping
with the solution.
Scott Dane, thanks for your expert testimony. On behalf of all
Minnesotans, and in particular northern Minnesota, thanks for
your prior work with the ACLT. Tremendous. And your knowledge
is really appreciated on this Committee. Thank you very much.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thanks for highlighting that. That was a
really important exchange right there.
I am going to move into a second round.
I am going to start with Professor Daigneault. There has been
some talk and focus on carbon markets as a way for small family
forest owners to generate additional income out of their land. Do
you believe that this is currently viable for small family forest own-
ers? Do these carbon markets help to support forest ecosystems?
Can they be a part of advancing climate mitigation solutions, but
just as importantly, will they help or hurt forest products econo-
mies? And is the answer dependent on how the policy is structured
or not?
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Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Right. Thank you, Representative Golden.
Lots there to unpack.
Thinking of just markets at large, right, carbon markets, they
are part of the solution, but it might not be part of the solution for
everybody. It does—it will provide sort of a diversified income
stream to ideally promote more forest management, but the policies
themselves has to be structured in a way that does that.
A lot of sort of existing carbon markets that focus on forest car-
bon tend to penalize those who are understocked but have the po-
tential to grow and basically reward a lot of those that are over-
stocked in the sense that they have a lot of carbon on the ground
compared to maybe the average forest.
The other thing that it does is it tends to—it is getting involved,
particularly in carbon markets, is very time consuming, resource
intensive, requires third-party audits and things like that that can
make it really cost prohibitive for particularly the sort of small and
family forest landowners. There are some organizations, like Amer-
ican Forest Foundation and Nature Conservancy, are working to
develop programs that specifically target those that own, you know,
less than a thousand acres, but they are still pretty nascent from
that perspective.
So, again, I think there are opportunities there, but I don’t think
it is the full solution. I think just, you know, saying that if we cre-
ate a bunch of carbon markets and create some ways that people
can buy, sell, and trade offsets are going to necessarily open up,
you know, the forest to all these—to all this sort of management
innovation, I think it is part of the solution. But I still think there
are other aspects that we need to take in account, particularly
that—you know, the duration that people have to enter into these
markets, the sort of complexity of how some of these things work
can make it more prohibitive than maybe, you know, what someone
like myself teaches in theory in an economics course.
Chairman GOLDEN. An excellent point. I appreciate that. And
I know someone sitting next to me said we could have a whole
hearing about that subject.
But I wanted to ask, then, from the perspective of going from the
classroom to on the street, Dana, maybe you could talk a little. I
mean, I have seen that some of these programs are structured in
ways that would probably be of concern to loggers and the Forest
Products Council, but is there also, you know, something good here
potentially if it means that more people are going to engage in for-
est growth? And does it give landowners another tool in the tool-
box? What is your feedback on this?
Mr. DORAN. You know, thanks for the question, Jared. And I
have got a picture behind me of you operating a stroke delimber,
by the way, and that is you also on the skidder. So I just wanted
to make sure folks knew that was there and you actually did it.
In terms of carbon markets, you know, I think carbon markets
scare loggers quite a bit, because, you know, carbon markets gen-
erally are a reduction of the annual timber harvest or the annual
cut, but we feel like it can be structured in a way that we make
sure that we actually weed the forest, remove the low-value wood,
and we can still conduct the same type of forest management with-
out an impact to the contractor. But that is something that has to
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be mandated up front, and it really truly is a partnership between
the landowner and the carbon market and even the logging con-
tractor.
As I mentioned in my testimony, you know, we created a third-
party certification program for logging contractors 20 years ago
called the Master Logger Program. And the Master Logger Pro-
gram is a third-party audit of the harvest. Professor Daigneault
mentioned, the cost to the landowner, but there has to be a third-
party audit to provide assurances and verification of the work one
on the ground. I think, you know, we provide a pathway to try to
mitigate that cost. And also, so you achieve the landowner point of
view, you achieve the market capability, keep their land forested,
because they are receiving a revenue forecast, and keep the con-
tractor as part of that with the work that they are doing on the
ground.
So I think there is a path forward, but you have got to make sure
that you have markets for low-value wood, whether that is bio-
mass, or it is finding other markets for low-value wood. And then
the contractors are part of that. And if we can develop a system
like that that increases forest management, produces higher level
products, greater markets, I think everybody shares in the pros-
perity. But that—that is a big nut that we have to crack.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you both.
Do you have any follow-up questions?
Mr. HAGEDORN. I will just ask one, if that is okay.
So, Mr. Doran and Mr. Dane, I will kind of throw this out at you.
Just so people understand a little bit better, I mean, we all experi-
ence one way or another these incredible increases in lumber costs.
I mean, people had their houses go up $40,000 to build, and people
put off projects and everything else. But you say your industry
doesn’t really benefit from that.
Can you explain to folks how it works and why that didn’t trickle
down to you?
And I am just kind of curious. I mean, again, the farming and
ag-based folks that I work with have to deal with meat packers, for
instance, the livestock people. And they sometimes think that the
meat packers are making a lot of money at the grocery stores and
everything else selling their meat, but the farmer—it doesn’t al-
ways get to the actual livestock farmer. Maybe that is similar here.
So I would be interested in your response.
Mr. DANE. Mr. Hagedorn, real quick. In my opinion, it was, for
lack of a better word, gouging that was occurring within the mar-
kets because of demand. At the same time, there is an increase in
forested land because the CRP maturing and that type of thing, so
the supply was abundant. There was an increase in logging capac-
ity with mills shutting down and stuff, so that infrastructure was
also abundant. So the mills could afford to dictate, again, the price.
I talked to a logger in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, the other day,
and he said that the mill told him, we are not cutting your price;
we are just paying you less. So it is a mill-controlled market right
there, and that is one of the reasons that the trickle down has not
occurred.
But I think my counterpart, Mr. Doran, would also have good in-
formation to share.
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Mr. DORAN. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Hagedorn. I appreciate the
question, and Scott is spot on. You know, it is interesting, in the
spring of this year, so let’s say January to April, there were tre-
mendous amount of reports nationally, the Wall Street Journal and
New York Times, on the cost of lumber and kind of the breakdown
of who was making the money. And I will tell you, the logging con-
tractors, and the landowners for that matter, were not seeing any
of the benefits. You know, we would communicate obviously with
our Membership, but we are also talking to the landowner commu-
nity, and there were a lot of folks who would talk to a logging con-
tractor and say, oh, you must be getting rich right now; you have
got to be able to pass that along. And they are just honestly saying,
no, we are not, we are not getting any of this, and neither are you,
and that was the bottom line.
And it is interesting, we issued an opinion piece in one of our
statewide newspapers back in April of this year, basically calling
into question what was happening both here in the state but also
nationally as to where the money was going. And, you know, I am
not going to point the finger at one piece of this. There are a lot
of players that are involved, you know, from the mills to the retail-
ers to the wood brokers in between. I will tell you, there are also
large cooperatives who buy materials on behalf of retailers. They
are all involved.
And so anywhere from retail to manufacturers, that is where the
money was, and it wasn’t just one piece of that that was making
the money. But I will tell you, none of it was trickling down.
But after we issued that opinion piece, we saw an increase in
pricing that was paid to the contractors and to the landowners. So
it is funny what happens sometimes when you get punched in the
eye. There is a noticeable change that took place. Obviously, this
summer, the commodity markets have changed. Lumber prices
have come down in many respects. There has been, you know, a
change in pricing. But a lot of the public attention has, I think, in-
fluenced where money has trickled and what has happened to over-
all pricing.
But Mr. Dane is absolutely correct. There was gouging at a high
level between those areas that I identified for you.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Okay. Well, I appreciate that. It just seems
like you are in a little bit of a precarious spot. You can’t control
your destiny in many ways. But the one thing that can always help
you is to make sure that we have downward pressure on cost of
production, to make sure that you can meet your bottom line, that
whether—whatever money you are going to get from the mills, you
can try to keep the cost of production low.
And I will just come back to it. It is these big things that some-
times government can really screw up and hurt you on—taxes, reg-
ulations, energy, trade, and equipment, in this case, with the way
the EPA jacked up the prices and made the equipment less reli-
able. In all those instances, government has an opportunity to im-
prove your bottom line or government has an opportunity to move
you towards being out of business. And I want you to know, I am
on the side of trying to help you build your bottom line, so we are
going to stand for those policies. Thanks for your testimony.
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Chairman GOLDEN. Speaking of regulations, I think Mr.
Stauber has a question.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Chair Golden.
I just have one additional question for Mr. Dane. You know,
there is a lot of talk about adding endangered species to the list
of endangered wildlife, et cetera. What does that do? You know,
how does that affect your industry?
I know in Congressman Golden’s area, you know, the lobsters are
having—they are having major issues, and I know in some parts
of even Minnesota. What does that—what is the economic impact
even prior to something being listed? What is the economic impact,
and how does your industry look at that?
Mr. DANE. Congressman Stauber, thank you very much. It is
ironic that we think about this issue from a Minnesota perspective,
and it is just one more tool that is going to be part of the arsenal
to allow those who want to litigate forest management to death to
utilize. And here is an example of it.
The Canadian lynx is—kind of goes back and forth. Is it going
to be in danger, is it not going to be endangered or threatened or
whatever else it is. So they track Canadian lynx. First of all, that
is just in Canada. They are not coming to Minnesota to mess up
our timberlands. No, just kidding there. But they tracked them.
And you know what they found out? The Canadian lynx traveled
on logging roads. They are not stupid. You know, they are not
going to go through the brush and everything else. They are going
to travel on logging roads.
So logging roads are not counterproductive to the Canadian lynx
habitat at all. But, again, once you get something on that list, you
can use it as a tool to interfere with forest management.
Mr. STAUBER. Yeah. That is what we have heard, I have heard
back home as well. And I think it is nationwide. And I think we
have to really take a healthy look at that and what we need to do
to really, I guess, stop the weaponization of the courts and allow
your industry to do what you do well: manage forests, bring great
jobs. You know as well as I do, in Minnesota, it is like a $10 billion
industry statewide. It is huge. And so we stand ready to help, as
Congressman Hagedorn stated, not only in Minnesota and Maine
but across this great nation.
So, with that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. Good question. The lobster in-
dustry has taken a big hit, and weaponization of the courts is, I
think, the perfect way to put it. That is a whole other topic right
there but one we are in the thick of in Maine.
I wanted to ask Mr. Thibodeau. I am sure you are aware that
there is a perception out there that burning wood for energy isn’t
the best use of forests and trees, particularly when it comes to car-
bon sequestration and climate solutions. I wanted to give you the
opportunity to talk about how ReEnergy uses fuel and where it
comes from and how using that wood for energy generation helps
ensure the continued health of forest land.
Mr. THIBODEAU. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Golden. Yeah, for-
est and mill residue that we use for generating renewable elec-
tricity at our facilities come from logging operations in mills near
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our power plants. The vast majority of that comes from within
about a 75-mile radius.
When forests and land are maintained and harvested in a sus-
tainable way, the forest continues to grow, and it grows healthier.
It continues to consume atmospheric carbons. So wood markets and
wood utilization are essential to forest maintenance. Without an
outlet for owners to sell their harvested wood, the owners are more
likely to sell their land for other uses.
If you think of the biomass energy industry as taking the left-
overs or the mill residues from forest operations, the low-value,
low-grade products are critical, as many of our other witnesses
have testified today, to promoting forest health. For example, cre-
ation of jobs from biomass industry as well as the economic output
of our facilities. We recently had an economist study our two facili-
ties in Maine, and they supported more than 360 jobs and had an
economic output of $95 million per year, on an annual basis. The
Stratton facility alone, where I am located, purchased fuel from
more than 58 Maine-based logging and trucking companies and
more than 19 different mills in the State of Maine. So that is sup-
porting that low-value market.
So there is a perception out there that burning wood is not the
best use of forests and trees, and I would agree with that. When
you think about the higher value markets for lumber mills, fur-
niture makers, paper, I would agree with that. However, you have
to make sure there is a clear line there that we are not cutting
down forests to make power. We are taking the leftovers, the re-
siduals that are left behind and from mill residues. In order to
make a 2 by 4, you have to debark that tree. That bark will come
to a biomass energy facility such as ours for power production.
Again, stressing baseload renewable power, biomass is one of the
only, along with geothermal, that is considered baseload renewable
power, which means, you know, we are producing power 24/7, no
matter how hot or cold it is, if it rains, if it is windy or not, or if
the sun is shining.
So thank you, Chairman Golden. Hopefully, that answered your
question.
Chairman GOLDEN. Yeah, of course. I am assuming, by the
way, you don’t have to go too far into it if you agree, that you are
in agreement with Mr. Dane about the importance of the RFS for
biomass.
Mr. THIBODEAU. Yeah, absolutely. I would echo Mr. Dane’s
sentiments exactly. The RFS is something that we have been work-
ing with very closely through the Biomass Power Association and
trying to activate those biomass pathways, kind of how I had men-
tioned in my testimony. It is really critical from a federal policy
issue for the biomass industry and to address the interpretation of
the term ‘‘biomass’’ as well.
You know, infrastructure that supports, you know, such things
as use of electric vehicles is very important to climate change. And
in terms of development and continued operation of renewable en-
ergy projects such as ours, that renewable fuel standard is really
critical. It will strengthen our potential role in the renewable fuel
standard. So we hope and expect the biomass electricity pathway
will become operational.
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Chairman GOLDEN. I know in Maine, we are really looking at
policies that could turn our State into a bit of an energy island
where we really can be producing, you know, and self-sufficient on
our own energy production, and biomass is certainly a part of that.
And we see it also helping small-scale manufacturers when they
are able to, you know, generate onsite, which has occurred in a few
places, but there are some tweaks that need to be made, I think,
to increase that. Dana and I always agree: We shouldn’t build a
public school in Maine that doesn’t have also some kind of biomass
boiler or something built into it. It is public expenditures. But all
of that depends also upon the future of having this forest resource
and making sure that it stays healthy.
So I guess my question is just to the professor. What types of
policies are you looking at, either private or public, looking into the
future to make sure that we have a healthy forest? I mean, do you
think we are going to need to introduce new forest species or is it
sustainable the way it is? I mean, what is your recommendation for
the forest products industry in Maine?
Mr. DAIGNEAULT. Yeah. So great question, Congressman. So
one thing to think about is that I think we have to acknowledge
that climate change is inevitable, right. We are already experi-
encing that, as Mr. Doran said, you know, how we have to harvest
and what species we are seeing. It is changing, right. And so we
have to do more to basically get that information out and help
those on the ground who are managing, logging, et cetera, handle
that and adapt accordingly.
In addition, you know, with that, we do need to acknowledge that
some species are going to grow faster than others, but at the same
time, you know, those aren’t necessarily basically the most desired
species, per se. Coupled with that, you know, as we noted, we
talked a little bit about carbon markets, but I think, again, we
need to come up with ways to basically get people in the woods and
managing from a whole suite of different opportunities. So that is
more incentives to do management, more—you know, more through
the USDA’s NRCS and other things that at least are facilitating
more management, more removal.
That goes—couples with what Mr. Thibodeau was saying where
we do need to basically have sort of robust markets for biomass,
which is going to help basically get some of that lower grade wood
out there, which is then going to increase and enhance the resil-
iency and health of our forests of what remains.
In addition, I have noted that, you know, what everyone has
talked about today is that we need to continue to find ways that
make it, again, profitable to want to do things in the woods, right,
and actively manage. And so I have noted at least that some of the
sort of federal tax incentives that have been out there, at one point
a couple years ago, they were considering dropping them. I think
keeping those were a huge boost or a very important aspect for, not
just the sort of logging and forestry community, but for climate
change at large.
And, lastly, I think we just—we also need to acknowledge that
the economy is changing, people’s needs are changing, and their
uses of wood products are changing. So by continuing to explore
other ways that we can use wood as substitutes for fossil-based
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products, you know, things that, you know, are more durable and
sort of meet the needs, you know, the consumption needs, that is
going to help put more value on the forest and in the woods that
we rely on, which is then going to help boost a lot of these commu-
nities that, you know, have a long heritage and history of relying
on our forest resources, you know, to make those communities
thrive.
We need to continue to push in that way and probably acknowl-
edge that maybe, you know, pulp and paper is not going to be the
solution for the next hundred years, but we still have an abundant
wood basket that can provide a lot of resources that we can take
advantage of.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
I think that is as good a place as any to wrap things up right
there.
I want to thank all the witnesses on the panel for joining us
today, and I want to thank all my colleagues for joining us and for
their good questions.
From the testimony and the exchange sought here, I think it is
clear the great benefits of the forest products industry and sustain-
able forestry can have for the country. And we all have a role to
play in contributing to a healthy forest, to mitigating climate
change, and to taking care of our local economies, making sure
they can be successful. So I believe it is our responsibility to sup-
port industries like those that we have in our forested States and
communities.
Protecting our environment doesn’t have to be bad for business,
and I think our witnesses proved today that that is certainly not
the case in places like Maine and Minnesota and a lot of others.
I know down south as well. Sustainable forestry provides positive
economic and social outcomes and meets the needs of the present
and we hope future generations as well.
So I look forward to working with my colleagues to advance poli-
cies to keep our forests healthy and continue to help small business
owners and the forest products industry.
So I would ask unanimous consent that Members have 5 legisla-
tive days to submit statements and supporting materials for the
record.
Without objection, so ordered.
And if there is no further business before the Committee, we are
adjourned. Thank you all very much.
[Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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