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Supporting Small Entities through Investments in the National Infrastructure: Broadband (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, June 16, 2021)

Summary

The printed record of a hearing, Supporting Small Entities Through Investments in the National Infrastructure: Broadband, held June 16, 2021 by the Subcommittee on Underserved, Agricultural, and Rural Development of the House Committee on Small Business, Small Business Committee Document Number 117–019. Hon. Jared Golden and Hon. Jim Hagedorn gave opening statements. Four witnesses testified: Peggy Schaffer, Executive Director of the ConnectMaine Authority, Augusta, ME; Dan Sullivan, President of Downeast Broadband Utility, Calais, ME; Matt Dunne, Founder and Executive Director of the Center on Rural Innovation, Hartland, VT; and Tim Waibel, President of the Minnesota Corn Growers Association. The appendix carries their prepared statements and material from the Missouri Farm Bureau, the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council and Ranking Member Hagedorn.

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Cite this document

“Supporting Small Entities through Investments in the National Infrastructure: Broadband (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, June 16, 2021).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/supporting-small-entities-through-investments-in-the-national-infrastr-7af0a58fa3/, SHA-256 d4b282e7dada8f69597702e420f80707c354a9e8f826eca2333309f43007db88.

Full text

                                                              SUPPORTING   SMALL    ENTITIES   THROUGH
                                                                INVESTMENTS IN THE NATIONAL INFRASTRUC-
                                                                TURE: BROADBAND


                                                                                                  HEARING
                                                                                                         BEFORE THE


                                                                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED,
                                                                        AGRICULTURAL, AND RURAL
                                                                             DEVELOPMENT
                                                                                                            OF THE


                                                                       COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                              UNITED STATES
                                                                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
                                                                             ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                                       FIRST SESSION


                                                                                                       HEARING HELD
                                                                                                        JUNE 16, 2021




                                                                                Small Business Committee Document Number 117–019
                                                                                  Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov


                                                                                           U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                                                    44–823                             WASHINGTON : 2021




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                                                                                    HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                       NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                                                                                                JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                                                                                                JASON CROW, Colorado
                                                                                               SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                                                                                              KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                                                                                              DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                                                                                               MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
                                                                                           CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
                                                                                               TROY CARTER, Louisiana
                                                                                                 JUDY CHU, California
                                                                                            DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                                                                                            ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
                                                                                          CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                                                                                                ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                                                                                               ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
                                                                                    BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
                                                                                               ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                                                                                              JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
                                                                                              PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                                                                                              DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                                                                                             CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
                                                                                           ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
                                                                                                YOUNG KIM, California
                                                                                               BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                                                                                               BYRON DONALDS, Florida
                                                                                               MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                                                                                            SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

                                                                                          MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
                                                                                     ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
                                                                                             DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director




                                                                                                                  (II)




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                                                                                                              CONTENTS
                                                                                                           OPENING STATEMENTS
                                                                                                                                                                                              Page
                                                              Hon. Jared Golden ...................................................................................................             1
                                                              Hon. Jim Hagedorn .................................................................................................               2

                                                                                                                      WITNESSES
                                                              Ms. Peggy Schaffer, Executive Director, ConnectMaine Authority, Augusta,
                                                               ME .........................................................................................................................     5
                                                              Mr. Dan Sullivan, President, Downeast Broadband Utility, Calais, ME ............                                                  6
                                                              Mr. Matt Dunne, Founder and Executive Director, Center on Rural Innova-
                                                               tion, Hartland, VT ................................................................................................              9
                                                              Mr. Tim Waibel, President, Minnesota Corn Growers Association, Burnsville,
                                                               MN .........................................................................................................................    10

                                                                                                                       APPENDIX
                                                              Prepared Statements:
                                                                  Ms. Peggy Schaffer, Executive Director, ConnectMaine Authority, Au-
                                                                    gusta, ME ......................................................................................................           30
                                                                  Mr. Dan Sullivan, President, Downeast Broadband Utility, Calais, ME ....                                                     37
                                                                  Mr. Matt Dunne, Founder and Executive Director, Center on Rural Inno-
                                                                    vation, Hartland, VT .....................................................................................                 46
                                                                  Mr. Tim Waibel, President, Minnesota Corn Growers Association, Burns-
                                                                    ville, MN ........................................................................................................         54
                                                              Questions for the Record:
                                                                  None.
                                                              Answers for the Record:
                                                                  None.
                                                              Additional Material for the Record:
                                                                  Missouri Farm Bureau Federation .................................................................                            60
                                                                  SBE - Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council .....................................                                        62
                                                                  Statement of Ranking Member Jim Hagedorn ..............................................                                      65




                                                                                                                              (III)




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                                                              SUPPORTING SMALL ENTITIES THROUGH
                                                               INVESTMENTS IN THE NATIONAL INFRA-
                                                               STRUCTURE: BROADBAND

                                                                                           WEDNESDAY, JUNE 16, 2021

                                                                                  HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                                                                   COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
                                                                                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON UNDERSERVED,
                                                                       AGRICULTURAL, AND RURAL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT,
                                                                                                               Washington, DC.
                                                                The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room
                                                              2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jared Golden [chair-
                                                              man of the Subcommittee] presiding.
                                                                Present: Representatives Golden, Carter, Delgado, Luetkemeyer,
                                                              Williams, Hagedorn, Stauber, Tenney, and Salazar.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. Good morning. I call this hearing to order.
                                                                Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
                                                              any time. Let me begin by saying standing House Committee rules
                                                              and practice continue to apply during hybrid proceedings. All mem-
                                                              bers are reminded that they are expected to adhere to these stand-
                                                              ing rules, including decorum. House regulations require members
                                                              to be visible through a video connection throughout the proceedings
                                                              so please keep your cameras on. Also, please remember to remain
                                                              muted, unless you are recognized, in order to minimize background
                                                              noise. And if you have to participate in another proceeding, please
                                                              exit this one and log back in later.
                                                                In the event a member encounters technical issues that prevent
                                                              them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
                                                              next available member of the same party, and we will recognize
                                                              that member at the next appropriate time slot, provided they re-
                                                              turn to the proceeding.
                                                                For those members and staff physically present in the committee
                                                              room today, we will continue to follow the most recent OAP guid-
                                                              ance. Masks are no longer required in our meeting space for Mem-
                                                              bers and staff who are vaccinated. All Members and staff who have
                                                              not been are asked to wear masks and socially distance. I sincerely
                                                              hope we all do our part to protect each other and our staff.
                                                                In 2020, COVID-19 widened the digital divide and highlighted
                                                              the importance of reliable and affordable broadband for American
                                                              small businesses. Many small businesses shifted operations online
                                                              to stay connected to their customers as people stayed home to slow
                                                              the spread of virus. This digital adaptation proved to be crucial to
                                                              small business success. According to a survey by the Connected
                                                              Commerce Council, 72 percent of small businesses increased their
                                                                                                                  (1)




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                                                              use of digital tools during the COVID-19 crisis. Unfortunately,
                                                              small businesses without reliable broadband access proved to be at
                                                              a significant disadvantage when it came to this digital transition.
                                                                 As a Representative of one of most rural districts in the country,
                                                              I heard firsthand from many entrepreneurs about the struggles,
                                                              the lack of access to high-speed broadband created during the pan-
                                                              demic. Although I would also note that that was a conversation
                                                              that I had often with small business owners and many others
                                                              around the district even prior to the pandemic.
                                                                 In my home State, roughly half of all road miles are considered
                                                              unserved or underserved by broadband infrastructure. Statistics
                                                              like these are not unique to Maine’s Second Congressional District.
                                                              Unfortunately, many communities across the country also struggle
                                                              to access broadband at benchmark speeds. Broadband subscriptions
                                                              continue to grow. However, rural and Tribal areas lag behind
                                                              urban and suburban areas in broadband deployment. As a result,
                                                              at least 25 million Americans still lack access to high-speed inter-
                                                              net, many of which live in remote and rural parts of our country.
                                                              This is known as the digital divide. Factors like low population
                                                              densities, rugged terrain and fewer subscribers to spread deploy-
                                                              ment costs among have contributed to a lack of investment in
                                                              broadband networks by private companies.
                                                                 Without access to high-speed broadband, small firms in these
                                                              areas are at a significant disadvantage. From connecting with con-
                                                              sumers to filling orders, a broadband connection is essential to the
                                                              day-to-day operations of many Main Street businesses. This lack of
                                                              access to high-speed broadband has proven to be an economic drain
                                                              on many communities, impacting individual success in education,
                                                              wealth, and access to opportunity.
                                                                 It is vital to the economic health of communities across the coun-
                                                              try and the Nation as a whole that we close the digital divide. As
                                                              Congress considers legislative work to revitalize infrastructure, we
                                                              have an opportunity to make the investment in broadband access.
                                                                 Meeting this opportunity will require Congress and the adminis-
                                                              tration to work closely with State and local stakeholders and invest
                                                              the resources necessary to make universally available broadband a
                                                              reality. I hope that today’s hearing marks the beginning of a good
                                                              conversation between Committee members and stakeholders dedi-
                                                              cated to closing the digital divide and empowering small busi-
                                                              nesses.
                                                                 I will now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Hagedorn, for his
                                                              opening statement.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that.
                                                                 And it has been a few weeks, we have been on break. And on
                                                              behalf of our members, we would just like to congratulate you and
                                                              your wife on the birth of your new daughter and glad to hear ev-
                                                              erybody is healthy and doing well.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for holding
                                                              this hearing. It is very important. I am excited to hear from the
                                                              witnesses, particularly Tim Waibel, who resident of southern Min-
                                                              nesota. And it is going to be a great hearing on an important issue.
                                                                 As a member of both the House Small Business Committee and
                                                              Agriculture Committee, broadband infrastructure has been a top




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                                                              priority since being elected to Congress. According to USDA’s Cen-
                                                              sus of Agriculture, nearly 20 percent of the constituents in my con-
                                                              gressional district lack reliable internet service. Unfortunately,
                                                              without reliable high-speed internet, many constituents and busi-
                                                              nesses are at a disadvantage. Under the previous administration,
                                                              significant investments were made, such as the American
                                                              Broadband Initiative, which stimulated increased private sector in-
                                                              volvement in broadband infrastructure, and it was a bridge to the
                                                              gap in rural America. However, despite significant advances, many
                                                              rural and Tribal areas still have limited or no access to broadband
                                                              capabilities.
                                                                 The digital divide has only grown wider as broadband deploy-
                                                              ment in urban areas continues to outpace deployment in rural
                                                              areas. Congress must work to find solutions to address this digital
                                                              divide.
                                                                 While we can all agree that providing small businesses with the
                                                              tools and resources necessary to thrive, examining policies to help
                                                              businesses get back on their feet is a priority. One way that we can
                                                              ensure that we meet this goal is to have better broadband
                                                              connectivity, which has been found it be a key aspect in increased
                                                              economic growth for rural businesses. In fact, according to a study
                                                              by the Congressional Research Service, broadband access in adop-
                                                              tion in rural areas is linked to increased job and population
                                                              growth, higher rates of new business formation, increased home
                                                              values, and lower unemployment rates. Industries, such as agri-
                                                              culture and healthcare, which are vital to rural America, have in-
                                                              creasingly relied upon broadband connectivity as technology capa-
                                                              bilities have developed. Telemedicine has provided many benefits to
                                                              rural communities during the pandemic and also has become a reli-
                                                              able way to ensure rural areas receive timely quality healthcare.
                                                              The continued expansion and modernization of telemedicine capa-
                                                              bilities will be essential to ensuring rural communities that they
                                                              have the equal access to high quality care.
                                                                 Additionally, many small businesses, farmers and ranchers in
                                                              southern Minnesota are increasingly relying upon technology as
                                                              they seek to strategically decrease input, such as fertilizer and fuel,
                                                              while simultaneously increasing yields.
                                                                 Without the availability of high-speed internet, they would not be
                                                              able to keep pace with modern technology. Programs such as the
                                                              ReConnect Pilot Program, which was authorized in the 2018 farm
                                                              bill, have helped build out broadband infrastructure in rural areas
                                                              that lack broadband access. This has helped make significant ad-
                                                              vancements in broadband infrastructure in my district and many
                                                              others across the Nation. I was proud to support additional legisla-
                                                              tive efforts in the CARES Act and Consolidated Appropriations Act
                                                              of 2021, which appropriated more dollars like ReConnect, and it
                                                              helped to make progress.
                                                                 I am going to submit the rest of my statement for the record. I
                                                              want to keep us on time. Thank you for holding the hearing. I look
                                                              forward to hearing from the witnesses.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Hagedorn.
                                                                 Just a quick moment to explain how the hearing will proceed.
                                                              Each witness has 5 minutes to provide a statement, and each Com-
                                                              mittee member will have 5 minutes for questions. Please ensure




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                                                              that your microphone is on when you begin speaking and that you
                                                              return to mute when finished.
                                                                 Now we will introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Ms.
                                                              Peggy Schaffer, executive director of the Connect Maine Authority,
                                                              located in Augusta, Maine. She previously served as the small busi-
                                                              ness advocate for the Secretary of State’s Office and served as the
                                                              Co-Chair of the Maine Broadband Coalition, a statewide group ad-
                                                              vocating for high-speed broadband.
                                                                 On behalf of my district and the State of Maine, we thank you
                                                              for your dedication and welcome you to the Committee.
                                                                 Our second witness is Mr. Dan Sullivan, president of the
                                                              Downeast Broadband Utility located in Calais, Maine. Mr. Sullivan
                                                              has more than 40 years of experience in information technology, in-
                                                              cluding as a small business owner and IT director from one of the
                                                              region’s largest employers. Downeast Broadband Utility, also
                                                              known as DBU, is the first and only operating municipal
                                                              broadband utility in the State of Maine. The network is owned by
                                                              the city of Calais and the towns of Baileyville and Alexander.
                                                                 Welcome, Mr. Sullivan.
                                                                 Our third witness is Mr. Matt Dunne, founder and executive di-
                                                              rector of the Center on Rural Innovation located in Hartland,
                                                              Vermont. Launched in 2017, the center is a social enterprise com-
                                                              mitted to supporting resilient economic development in rural Amer-
                                                              ica. Their sister organization—I am sorry. CORI’s sister organiza-
                                                              tion, Rural Innovation Strategies, provides strategic consulting to
                                                              bring prosperity and investment to rural areas in the digital age.
                                                              Mr. Dunne served in the Vermont State legislature, AmeriCorps,
                                                              and Google’s Community Affairs Division. He holds is B.A. from
                                                              Brown University and is a lifelong Vermonter who lives on a 100-
                                                              acre farm where he was raised.
                                                                 Welcome, Mr. Dunne.
                                                                 And the Ranking Member, Mr. Hagedorn, will introduce his wit-
                                                              ness.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 Our fourth and final witness is Tim Waibel, president of the Min-
                                                              nesota Corn Growers Association, one of the largest grassroots
                                                              farm organizations in the country. Mr. Waibel, who hails from
                                                              Courtland, Minnesota, in our congressional district in southern
                                                              Minnesota is also a farmer with his wife and two sons. They grow
                                                              corn, soybeans, and they raise hogs. Mr. Waibel has been on the
                                                              State board of directors for the Minnesota Corn Growers Associa-
                                                              tion for 9 years, serving in a variety of leadership capacities, in-
                                                              cluding first vice president, treasurer, secretary, and now presi-
                                                              dent. I think he has cornered the market there on the corn grow-
                                                              ers. His lifelong experience is not only a producer but advocate for
                                                              the agriculture industry in general. And he will be extremely bene-
                                                              ficial to our hearing today. And thank you, Mr. Waibel, for testi-
                                                              fying and sharing your experience with us.
                                                                 Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
                                                                 We will now go to opening remarks from our witnesses.
                                                                 With that, I will recognize Ms. Schaffer for 5 minutes.




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                                                              STATEMENTS OF PEGGY SCHAFFER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
                                                               CONNECTMAINE AUTHORITY, AUGUSTA, ME; DAN SULLIVAN,
                                                               PRESIDENT, DOWNEAST BROADBAND UTILITY, CALAIS, ME;
                                                               MATT DUNNE, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CEN-
                                                               TER ON RURAL INNOVATION, HARTLAND, VT; AND TIM
                                                               WAIBEL, PRESIDENT, MINNESOTA CORN GROWERS ASSOCIA-
                                                               TION, BURNSVILLE, MN.
                                                                                     STATEMENT OF PEGGY SCHAFFER
                                                                Ms. SCHAFFER. Good morning. I am Peggy Schaffer, executive
                                                              director of Connect Maine Authority. And I wish to thank you for
                                                              this invitation to testify in front of the Committee House Small
                                                              Business Subcommittee on Underserved Agricultural and Rural
                                                              Development to talk about supporting small industries through in-
                                                              vestments in broadband infrastructure.
                                                                Congressional support for bringing high-quality broadband to ev-
                                                              eryone in this country, rural and urban, is central to solving this
                                                              problem. Connect Maine is a quasi-independent authority charged
                                                              with bringing broadband to everyone in the State of Maine and
                                                              making sure they can use it. Connect Maine was created in 2007
                                                              with a budget of about $1.5 million. We have two grant programs.
                                                              One is for community planning, and one is for infrastructure. Over
                                                              the past 12 years, we have provided about $12 million in infra-
                                                              structure grants to ISP, attracting about $15 million in match from
                                                              companies and communities.
                                                                Last summer, Maine voters approved a $15 million infrastruc-
                                                              ture bond, and just this past month, we awarded $8.6 million of
                                                              those funds to 20 projects that will serve 8,500 households, match-
                                                              ing $16 million in company and community funds.
                                                                In 2016, we started our community planning process. These are
                                                              small grants that help communities plan how to expand broadband
                                                              service in their area. Over 160 communities engaged this in process
                                                              so far. In Maine and nationally, broadband infrastructure is a road-
                                                              by-road battle. Where you live really matters. A neighbor half mile
                                                              from you might have good service, but bringing that same service
                                                              to your end of the road might cost $30,000 or more. Identifying
                                                              these gaps is an essential part of the community planning process.
                                                                Because of the well-known problems with the accuracy of the
                                                              FCC data, many States have undertaken their own efforts to get
                                                              better data. Georgia, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Washington, Min-
                                                              nesota, Maine have all developed our own mapping and data lay-
                                                              ers. These are just the few States frustrated with the inability to
                                                              understand who has service and who does not.
                                                                Broadband is a very personal service. It is how you connect with
                                                              your family, healthcare, education, grocery shopping, and work.
                                                              Maine communities, in fact communities across the country, realize
                                                              that high-quality broadband connection is central to their future.
                                                              Broadband is the lifeline for every community in this country, large
                                                              or small. Our planning grants act like sticky tape. It gives the com-
                                                              munity something to grab on to and helps the ISP see a viable
                                                              business case to bring broadband to that area. Once people begin
                                                              talking with their neighbors about this critical infrastructure, they
                                                              realize that everyone in their community needs to have access to
                                                              the service and they understand the importance of affordability.




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                                                              This deep granular drive into what communities want drives State
                                                              plans and data. It is also why so many small ISPs have aggres-
                                                              sively expanded their footprint with fiber. Providers and commu-
                                                              nities seek solutions that will outlive the costs incurred. No longer
                                                              are we investing in infrastructure that will need to be rebuilt in
                                                              20 years. We have found several programs are ill-suited to meet
                                                              community needs or interests in Maine. Examples of this are the
                                                              USDA grants through ReConnect and the recent FCC Rural Devel-
                                                              opment Digital Opportunity Fund.
                                                                 Four projects were awarded ReConnect grants in early 2020.
                                                              These are small projects that should be a 6- to 8-month build. None
                                                              of these projects have started because of the bureaucracy one the
                                                              USDA. If these projects had been funded through a straight grant,
                                                              they would have been lit and serving people right now, not some
                                                              time in 2022. Projects all across the country are having similar
                                                              unneeded delays. There is one small community in Lincoln County
                                                              that was denied a USDA grant because their area was auctioned
                                                              off in satellite service in the FCC’s RDOF auction. They are now
                                                              not eligible for any other Federal funding. The town has been
                                                              working for 3 years to develop a solution to bringing affordable
                                                              service to everyone. Federal funding should not block that effort.
                                                                 If broadband infrastructure is going to achieve its promise, we
                                                              need to make sure Federal funds flow to the solutions these com-
                                                              munities want. That is why the community—the Capital Projects
                                                              Fund and the American Rescue Plan is so exciting. It puts the
                                                              funds closest to community efforts through a State program. States
                                                              have proven they are up to the task of efficiently and effectively de-
                                                              livering the use of these funds to build that infrastructure. Sixteen
                                                              States awarded $644 million in the Coronavirus Relief Fund to
                                                              build out networks that were lit in under 6 months. The American
                                                              Jobs Plan also offers great promise to close this connectivity and
                                                              affordability gap, but it really, really matters how the funds for in-
                                                              frastructure are distributed and who owns the infrastructure.
                                                              There are hundreds of successful models of public-private partner-
                                                              ships to build this infrastructure. There is no one model because
                                                              there is no one solution. It requires a flexible strategy, and flexible
                                                              strategies are just not what the Federal Government does well.
                                                                 State broadband programs have proven their worth. Our under-
                                                              standing of the problems, the locations, and our ability to craft so-
                                                              lutions that fit our communities is central to our effectiveness.
                                                              Funding for the infrastructure through the American Jobs Plan
                                                              should flow through State and State programs to provide the great-
                                                              est benefit and the fastest affordable connectivity to Maine people.
                                                                 Thank you for your time and consideration. I would be happy to
                                                              answer your questions.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Ms. Schaffer.
                                                                 Mr. Sullivan, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
                                                                                       STATEMENT OF DAN SULLIVAN
                                                                Mr. SULLIVAN. Good morning, Congressman Golden and Rank-
                                                              ing Member Hagedorn. Thank you very much for this opportunity
                                                              to discuss the DBU project.
                                                                My name is Dan Sullivan. As mentioned, I was former IT direc-
                                                              tor at the Woodland Pulp and St. Croix Tissue pulp mills in




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                                                              Baileyville. I have also been in technology for 40-plus years and
                                                              now presently am the president of Downeast Broadband Utility.
                                                                 Calais and Baileyville had a problem: terrible expensive
                                                              broadband options. The towns agreed to ban together by way of the
                                                              local agreement to explore economic development ideas, and fiber
                                                              came to the forefront. We had discussions with local leaders and
                                                              our citizens, rotary clubs, chambers of commerce, town meetings.
                                                              We hung posters. We did everything we could think of to bring peo-
                                                              ple into the room to discuss what could or could not be done.
                                                                 It was the overall decision by all these groups that we would
                                                              look, search out a fiber-to-home solution for our two towns. So the
                                                              two towns agreed to fund a feasibility study to see if this was even
                                                              possible. The results came back and said, yes, it indeed was. So the
                                                              towns again funded the cost to build the construction to see how
                                                              much it would cost to do it. We had unanimous support from both
                                                              the towns.
                                                                 The network is paid for by subscribers to the network, not taxes
                                                              raised. That is the beauty of this financial model. The need in
                                                              these towns is so great and people want it so bad that our sub-
                                                              scriber rate is going through the roof. So this will be paid for by
                                                              the people who buy the service, not by the citizens of these towns.
                                                              But, uniquely, the citizens of these towns will actually own the in-
                                                              frastructure.
                                                                 We began construction in 2018 and completed in 2020. Then the
                                                              town of Alexander—which is next to Alexander, asked to join us.
                                                              We approved them. They are now being constructed. They will
                                                              probably be completed the end of December. Just last week, I met
                                                              with Indian Township, our local Indian reservation. They have too
                                                              voted to join DBU and are now proceeding with that. Construction
                                                              will begin shortly.
                                                                 On top of that, 2 days ago, Princeton contacted me. I had a meet-
                                                              ing with them. They too have voted unanimously to try to join
                                                              DBU, and the town of Cooper will be doing the same thing in July.
                                                              So you can obviously see there is an awful lot of demand out.
                                                                 So why did we do this? We did it because our existing ISP op-
                                                              tions were insufficient, unreliable, expensive, and in many cases
                                                              not even available. We approached the existing ISPs and offered to
                                                              help them fund a buildout to bring fiber to our towns, businesses,
                                                              and homes. They refused. They weren’t interested. So local busi-
                                                              nesses and residents universally complained about how slow and
                                                              expensive broadband was.
                                                                 And Washington County’s largest employer, St. Croix Tissue and
                                                              Woodland Pulp, where I worked for many years, was very inter-
                                                              ested in this solution. And I would like to read a brief statement
                                                              by the mill’s manager. He said, quote: Affordable access to symmet-
                                                              rical broadband via fiber is a game changer for our area. It has in-
                                                              creased property values, facilitated remote work and learning,
                                                              while attracting new residents to our communities. From my per-
                                                              spective as an executive at Washington County’s largest employer,
                                                              fiber-based broadband has proven to be a valuable recruiting tool
                                                              to attract technical talent to our area and business. In addition, it
                                                              has helped our employees to effectively work remotely through this
                                                              pandemic. Prior to the founding of the Downeast Broadband Util-




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                                                              ity, our area’s access to this vital service was completely insuffi-
                                                              cient, unquote.
                                                                 We knew from our research that a fully fiber network was what
                                                              we needed to do here to build a future-proof solution for our area.
                                                              And Maine’s home rule provision in Maine’s Constitution allowed
                                                              us to proceed with that. So we tapped into our Yankee spirit, and
                                                              DBU was born.
                                                                 What did we build? This is a mouthful, but we built an open ac-
                                                              cess, dark fiber, home-run network. Each subscriber receives a sin-
                                                              gle dedicated fiber to their home or business. This ensures had a
                                                              100-plus year future-proof solution. Science has not yet reached fi-
                                                              ber’s capacity limits. They don’t know how fast they can make it
                                                              work. And once the fiber is installed on these poles when tech-
                                                              nology changes, and the technology improves, only the laser equip-
                                                              ment in our communication cabinets have to be upgraded. The ex-
                                                              isting fiber cable will be viable for those 100-plus years.
                                                                 As a contrast, cell towers need to be climbed and satellites re-
                                                              launched to keep up with changes in technology. These tech-
                                                              nologies do not provide a future-proof model, are impractical, ex-
                                                              pensive, contribute to mountains of space junk. And all these costs
                                                              are passed down to the consumer.
                                                                 Now our network is open to all ISPs, even the ones that turned
                                                              us down. We basically turned their argument of low-density popu-
                                                              lation not being an affordable way to do this upside down because
                                                              we paid for the construction, the maintenance, and the operating
                                                              costs. We have taken three legs off their stool to provide this serv-
                                                              ice, and they are welcome to join us, and I hope they do.
                                                                 DBU is a utility much like roads, water, sewer. And it is owned
                                                              by citizens of these towns. We determined about a 30 percent tick
                                                              rate from Calais and Baileyville will make the plan viable. We are
                                                              presently at 23 percent in the midst of the pandemic and soon ex-
                                                              pect to pass 30 percent and beyond. We estimate Alexander and In-
                                                              dian Township to a 80 to 90 percent tick rate as their broadband
                                                              situation is more dire. And here is the real caveat to all of this, the
                                                              caveat to the ability of benefits, the base fiber internet package for
                                                              the by 100/100 megabit connection is $59.95 with no set up fees,
                                                              no router fees, no contract fees. And no data caps. In the poorest
                                                              county in the State of Maine, we have the fastest internet in the
                                                              world at the most reliable cost.
                                                                 So, in conclusion, I would like to say, Maine and our Nation have
                                                              paid for inadequate solutions to our country’s dismal broadband for
                                                              decades, only to be still treading water and, in some instances,
                                                              drowning. An undeniable fact is that fiber is the most future-proof,
                                                              cost-effective way to build ubiquitous broadband for our Nation for
                                                              the next 100-plus years. Municipalities owning that physical net-
                                                              work not only ensures competition but lowers cost, provides faster,
                                                              more reliable speeds, and it solves the problem. The backbone of
                                                              the internet is fiber. The middle mile is fiber. It has only been this
                                                              last mile to the business and consumer that has been relegated to
                                                              copper or, even worse, wireless, and only because it is more profit-
                                                              able for cable and phone companies to keep using their 19th cen-
                                                              tury technologies rather than investing completing this fiber net-
                                                              work. These companies are private and deserve to invest their dol-
                                                              lars as they see fit.




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                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Mr. Sullivan.
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. We have no argument with that. It is our posi-
                                                              tion that taxpayer funds need to be—I am almost done—need to be
                                                              100 percent directed towards finishing the home solution. We really
                                                              appreciate your Subcommittee’s work on this. We hope that we can
                                                              contribute with you to help solve this problem for Maine and the
                                                              Nation.
                                                                 I will take any questions that may be out there. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Perfect. Thank you.
                                                                 Next we will recognize Mr. Dunne.
                                                                 Mr. Dunne, you are muted still.
                                                                                           STATEMENT OF MATT DUNNE
                                                                 Mr. DUNNE. Apologies.
                                                                 Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Hagedorn, and members of
                                                              the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity. My name is Matt
                                                              Dunne, and I am the founder and executive director of Center on
                                                              Rural Innovation, known as CORI, a nonprofit action tank started
                                                              in 2017 to close the rural opportunity gap. Today, we are working
                                                              with a network of small towns across the country to help them be-
                                                              come successful in economic development and entrepreneurship in
                                                              the 21st century. This ranges from helping communities build
                                                              world-class broadband, facilitating technology training, supporting
                                                              accelerator programs, and investing in scalable small businesses.
                                                                 The rural urban divide that has emerged since the Great Reces-
                                                              sion was driven by automation, globalization, and a decline in rural
                                                              entrepreneurship. By January of 2020, before the pandemic, less
                                                              than half of all rural counties had returned to their pre-recession
                                                              employment levels as rural businesses, large and small, struggled
                                                              to regain solid footing. The COVID-19 shutdown only exacerbated
                                                              the problem for many rural small businesses, particularly those de-
                                                              pendent on tourism.
                                                                 Driving this divide was the fact that high-paying, resilient digital
                                                              economy jobs like computer programmers, cybersecurity analysts,
                                                              IT specialists, and others are not distributed equally across the
                                                              country. Rural America represents 15 percent of our nation’s work-
                                                              force but only 5 percent of the digital economy jobs. It doesn’t have
                                                              to be this way. In the age of the internet, there should be no limit
                                                              to where digital economy jobs and startups can take place.
                                                                 The pandemic has only reinforced what we in rural America al-
                                                              ready knew: Broadband is critical infrastructure. It is as vital to
                                                              equity and prosperity as electricity and transportation. For busi-
                                                              nesses, it was nothing short of a lifeline as Main Street companies
                                                              tried to quickly shift to online ordering and delivery. While some
                                                              businesses and workers could pivot to e-commerce or transition to
                                                              remote work, unequal broadband access left the rest, so many of
                                                              them in underserved rural areas, struggling to get by. But our
                                                              awareness of the issue has created a moment in time that resem-
                                                              bles one our nation faced nearly a century ago, when leaders real-
                                                              ized that unequal access to electricity prevented regions of the
                                                              country from being able to thrive.
                                                                 The good news is that like the rural electrification effort, there
                                                              are models for bringing world-class broadband to rural places like
                                                              the one that Mr. Sullivan has been so deeply involved with. In fact,




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                                                              at least 10 million rural Americans already live in Census tracts
                                                              with gigabit-speed broadband. These communities built networks
                                                              well beyond the FCC minimum standards for broadband because
                                                              they understood that level of service is already on its way to be-
                                                              coming obsolete. As a result, they are ready to participate in the
                                                              digital economy of today and meet the demands of the future. They
                                                              invested in the infrastructure that can do both.
                                                                 The question before us now is, are we going to go do what is nec-
                                                              essary to generate broadband that supports the businesses of today
                                                              and tomorrow? Without it, millions of underserved rural Americans
                                                              and small businesses can’t engage with streaming content, cloud-
                                                              based services, and video conferencing applications that have be-
                                                              come part of everyday life. That is why it is critical that future
                                                              funding should prioritize delivering a minimum of 100 megabits
                                                              per second upload and download speeds and building networks ca-
                                                              pable of scaling to a gigabit or more. To do otherwise is only setting
                                                              ourselves up for a rural-urban divide that reemerges 5 years from
                                                              now despite a massive infrastructure investment.
                                                                 COVID has opened people’s eyes to the possibility of working
                                                              where they want to live rather than living where they need to
                                                              work, including an incredible return to small-town America. But
                                                              this is only possible if rural areas can achieve the same internet
                                                              speeds as their urban counterparts. Doing so would enable entre-
                                                              preneurs and small businesses in rural places to access markets
                                                              anywhere in the world and be resilient to events like the pandemic
                                                              that forced so much activity online.
                                                                 We at CORI know plenty of small towns that are proving this is
                                                              possible, places that invested in gigabit-speed internet broadband
                                                              or are leveraging their current broadband to make successful busi-
                                                              nesses emerge. In Taos, New Mexico, a program to help local busi-
                                                              nesses build e-commerce websites during the pandemic helped
                                                              some see revenue increases by 10 percent. In Wilson, North Caro-
                                                              lina, a former auto repair specialist developed a software platform
                                                              called Shyft Auto to solve the inefficiencies he knows plague the
                                                              service shops everywhere. They are receiving investment and are
                                                              growing. In Red Wing, Minnesota, the robotics company Poultry
                                                              Patrol was able to test its prototype in the field thanks to the
                                                              upload and, download speeds possible with the region’s high-speed
                                                              broadband network.
                                                                 This is a moment unlike any we have seen before in the internet
                                                              age. The funding currently being considered to boost broadband de-
                                                              ployment expansion is vital to ensure every innovator and small
                                                              business person can take part in the digital revolution and reach
                                                              their full potential wherever they live.
                                                                 Thank you for your time and consideration of this important
                                                              issue. And I am happy to take any questions you may have.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 And, finally, Mr. Waibel, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                                                                                           STATEMENT OF TIM WAIBEL
                                                                Mr. WAIBEL. Thank you, Chairman Golden, Ranking Member
                                                              Hagedorn, and the members of this subcommittee. Thank you for
                                                              holding this hearing and letting me testify.




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                                                                 My name is Tim Waibel. I am a farmer from Courtland, Min-
                                                              nesota. It is a town of 611 in Representative Hagedorn’s district.
                                                              My wife and I have raised five children. We have six grandchildren
                                                              and are looking forward to three more coming in 2021. My wife and
                                                              I both feel blessed that we have been raised in rural America, and
                                                              we want them same blessings for future generation. I know that
                                                              many of you share this feeling.
                                                                 The pandemic has taught us a lot of lessons. One is that people
                                                              living in the cities grew to appreciate the advantages of living in
                                                              rural America, and many picked up stakes and moved here. Over
                                                              the years, I have been saddened to see our communities raise won-
                                                              derful kids only to see them go off to college and never return to
                                                              raise their families here, instead moving to the cities and suburbs.
                                                              A town like Courtland has suffered due this and not just economi-
                                                              cally; we have lost a lot of talent. And I think that those of us who
                                                              have lost—excuse me. I think that those who have lost to the cities
                                                              we have also been deprived of some life-enriching experiences that
                                                              only a small town can provide. So the thought that at least some
                                                              silver lining might come with this tragedy of the pandemic may be
                                                              a rebirth of towns like Courtland, which brings me to my second
                                                              lesson.
                                                                 We have all heard stories remote learning. While there is more
                                                              of it, I am speaking here on the issue on the heart of availability
                                                              of broadband. Kids growing up in rural areas who do not have ac-
                                                              cess to decent internet service are at a disadvantage. Senator Klo-
                                                              buchar mentioned that one student went to a local liquor store
                                                              parking lot because that was the only place that they could get
                                                              internet service. This is not an isolated problem. It is a problem for
                                                              anyone who lives and works in rural American communities be-
                                                              cause it impacts education, business, healthcare, and even farming.
                                                              Lack of high-speed internet access is a serious obstacle to the re-
                                                              birth of rural America I am hoping for. I am gratified at this time
                                                              when there is so much partisanship, that there is a bipartisan con-
                                                              sensus on the need to look into significant new investment in
                                                              broadband.
                                                                 But as you know, throwing money at a problem doesn’t always
                                                              fix it. Billions of dollars have been spent on expanding broadband
                                                              internet, but efforts have still come up short. So I hope that you
                                                              will take into account a few points from my perspective as a life-
                                                              long rural resident. First, it matters who is providing the
                                                              broadband to our rural communities? Do they have a real stake in
                                                              rural America? Do they have a proven track record in serving rural
                                                              America? And do think have boots on the ground to get the job
                                                              done?
                                                                 From my vantage point, the Department of Agriculture and rural
                                                              electric cooperatives and similar entities with a long history of
                                                              working with the USDA check these boxes. But that is not where
                                                              the lion’s share of the Federal dollars have gone. Billions have gone
                                                              to other Federal agencies to stand up programs using other
                                                              broadband providers that are often protected from competition,
                                                              even if they provide substandard service. My understanding is that
                                                              there is an interest by some in standing up another Federal pro-
                                                              gram, but I do not believe we are going to get any different results
                                                              than we have had going down the same path.




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                                                                 There is fierce competition amongst various agencies and pro-
                                                              viders in regard to who gets to carry the important mission. But
                                                              addressing the needs of rural America, including broadband, is a
                                                              mission of the USDA, rural electrics, and the like. And, yet, the
                                                              dollars that we have spent have paled in comparison to the dollars
                                                              under other programs where the providers do not check all the
                                                              boxes that I mentioned earlier. Had FDR taken this approach for
                                                              rural electrification, God knows how long it would have taken to
                                                              get power to our farms.
                                                                 I would like to recognize Representative G.T. Thompson, who has
                                                              brought a very thoughtful bipartisan broadband bill that is worth
                                                              your consideration because it recognizes the points that I am mak-
                                                              ing here today. The second point is there are gaping holes on the
                                                              map in terms of people with zero service. But there are also even
                                                              more holes in the map where people have terrible broadband serv-
                                                              ice and pay an arm and a leg. I feel I fit in that category. Both
                                                              problems need to be addressed. Setting high goals for service in
                                                              this process will be important. And if the providers are not meeting
                                                              the goal, they ought to open it up for competition.
                                                                 And, finally, in my perspective as a farmer, remember that it is
                                                              not just about location served, but it is areas served. Why is that
                                                              important? Because my farm not only needs the kind of internet
                                                              that a business needs in town, we also have mobile offices. My trac-
                                                              tor, combines, and so on and so forth talk back and forth where I
                                                              need to be able to upload data as I work the fields. This is a vital
                                                              efficiency in providing food, fuel, and fiber, but is also critical in
                                                              caring for the natural resources promoting soil health, clean air,
                                                              water, and the reduction of CO2. Agriculture amounts for a very
                                                              small percentage of CO2 emissions and is already sequestering car-
                                                              bon, but we are glad to help sequester carbon using tools voluntary
                                                              incentive-based tools. One such tool is high-speed internet.
                                                                 So, as you carry out the important work in this issue, I hope my
                                                              perspectives are helpful. Thank you for letting me testify. If you
                                                              have any questions, I can try and answer.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, sir.
                                                                 And I appreciate each of you for being here today to talk about
                                                              connecting rural America.
                                                                 We will now move to 5-minute questions. And I will begin by rec-
                                                              ognizing myself.
                                                                 Mr. Waibel, I would just point out, I think you probably have a
                                                              lot in common with Mr. Sullivan, who also talked about the high
                                                              cost of some of these programs that have not been nearly as effec-
                                                              tive as they should be in delivering good access, the kind of access
                                                              that you have spoken about and that Mr. Sullivan has also talked
                                                              about.
                                                                 I had to note too, sitting here, Pete, thinking last Congress, we
                                                              held a field hearing—you held in Minnesota, and Jim joined us. I
                                                              forget the town. What town were we in?
                                                                 Voice. [Inaudible.]
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Stauber. That is hilarious.
                                                                 The economic case for doing something here speaks for itself. I
                                                              will just say we were at a machine precision—precision machining
                                                              shop there where they were talking about how they couldn’t really
                                                              expand the business and in fact might have to move it into a more




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                                                              suburban or rural area if they didn’t have access to broadband. So
                                                              it is about protecting jobs and creating the opportunity to expand.
                                                                 And then Congressman Stauber came up to Maine. And we had
                                                              very similar conversations about how important this is in rural
                                                              Maine. So a lot of similarities between the two.
                                                                 Mr. Sullivan, I thought I would just start with you. Maybe you
                                                              could take a little time and get more indepth about what are the
                                                              issues that we came across in your community in looking at some
                                                              of the Federal programs that are out there, Federal dollars, grants,
                                                              and other things that just weren’t workable in Calais and
                                                              Baileyville, and as a result, why did you end up going with this
                                                              very local solution?
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. I think it was alluded to by some of the other
                                                              speakers. Some of the Federal programs are quite onerous and
                                                              time-consuming in order to be able to make something happen.
                                                              And there is a lot of abilities to trip along the way. And the need
                                                              was so dire in our area that we decided to—we had such unani-
                                                              mous support from the citizens to be able to go and finance this
                                                              operation; we decided to proceed ahead with it, rather than wait
                                                              out the infrastructure rules. To Peggy’s point, there is a lot of road-
                                                              blocks in the way there that kind of slow these projects down.
                                                                 And also I will say that the Federal description of broadband, for
                                                              years, they have been at this 25/3 number, which is completely in-
                                                              accurate. That is not broadband by any stretch of the imagination.
                                                              So we decided to try to step over those hurdles, if possible, and we
                                                              were able to do it.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. I appreciate that.
                                                                 I don’t know if was you, Ms. Schaffer, who had in your written
                                                              testimony or maybe it was someone else, the example of Cranberry
                                                              Isles, where there is such a—first, a Federal agency comes and an-
                                                              nounces that there is going to be broadband brought to the commu-
                                                              nity through a grant, and then, years later, it is not there. I think
                                                              Senator Collins from Maine has been working on finally getting a
                                                              solution. But in the interim, they took it upon themselves to fix it,
                                                              I am sure working with the State. But could you talk a little bit
                                                              about that but also just think about what Dan said? What other
                                                              examples do you have out there of inefficiencies or just bureaucracy
                                                              of those programs being unworkable, and how have you helped?
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. Well, I think one—the place you went to visit
                                                              when you did your field visit was Roque Bluffs, and they got a
                                                              USDA grant in I think it was December of 2019, official announce-
                                                              ment in early 2020. They still have not built a thing. It is not that
                                                              big a town. I think the bill was under a million dollars. They have
                                                              been hit by roadblock by roadblock. And it is just when you look
                                                              at—if you compare that, for instance, to Cranberry Isles, who really
                                                              started out on their own, and then USDA came in late with the
                                                              funding. Cranberry is built. It was built before the USDA funding
                                                              came through. And now there is this discussion about who pays for
                                                              what. But the process of the USDA does not really work for small
                                                              towns. It really doesn’t work for municipal networks. It doesn’t
                                                              work. And part of that is it is a one-size-fits-all solution. So, wheth-
                                                              er you are building a $20 million grant network or whether you are
                                                              building a million-dollar network, they don’t downsize it in a way




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                                                              that makes it or right size it in a way that makes it work for small
                                                              towns. And so that for us has been a major barrier.
                                                                 The other barrier for the USDA funds is they have been—you
                                                              have to have a service of under 10/1 to be qualified. And one of the
                                                              things I frequently say is you have to go through the willies to get
                                                              to the wags (ph). So sometimes you have to serve people who have
                                                              some level of service before you get to people who have gotten little
                                                              service. And the USDA’s standard of 10/1, which is lower even than
                                                              the FCC, which is just unacceptable, it doesn’t recognize that. And
                                                              it also sentences people who have—who are just a little better than
                                                              10/1 to nothing, to no support and no help. And that kind of struc-
                                                              ture doesn’t work when you are trying to bring service to rural
                                                              America.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. So we will dig in a little further
                                                              on some of these things, but it sounds like you are calling for great-
                                                              er flexibility in these programs at the very least.
                                                                 With that, I will turn it over for 5 minutes to Mr. Hagedorn.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with you.
                                                              And this is just basic infrastructure issue. It is quality of life for
                                                              the folks in rural areas. We need to make sure all Americans have
                                                              the same access and opportunities.
                                                                 And my friend Mr. Waibel from southern Minnesota makes a
                                                              good point. I mean, if we don’t have these types of services, it is
                                                              going to be hard to retain the folks in our rural communities and
                                                              certainly to attract them in, even if we have great jobs and that
                                                              type of thing.
                                                                 Mr. Waibel, really quickly if you could help some of the folks un-
                                                              derstand exactly what the farmers go through and their needs are
                                                              in the digital age. I know for instance, hog operators might have
                                                              an automated system to feed their hogs which would obviously re-
                                                              quire a lot of work on the internet. But when you do your duties,
                                                              your planning and things like that, can you kind of fill us in about
                                                              what is going on out there and why you need a good broadband
                                                              connection?
                                                                 Mr. WAIBEL. Certainly. Thank you will for the question. So, in
                                                              the fall, when we harvest, we work with certain vendors, fertilizer
                                                              people, so on and so forth, that they can follow us in the field, and
                                                              they know exactly when we are done harvesting a field so they can
                                                              come and spread fertilizer and so on and so forth. There is no
                                                              phone calls. They know exactly what needs to be spread because
                                                              of prior meetings and so on and so forth. So it just saves a lot of
                                                              time in that aspect. And the same way with information shared by
                                                              our harvesting machines, it goes directly to people that we work
                                                              with. They know exactly what we have seen and they can dig deep-
                                                              er into it. So certainly if we need to change something for the com-
                                                              ing year on an application we can do so real quick and a lot of
                                                              things. Everything is connected now on the farms. It is amazing.
                                                              I never thought I would witness something like that in my lifetime.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. I agree with you. When you talk about, espe-
                                                              cially in rural communities, you trust the USDA, you trust the
                                                              local companies, the REAs and others to deliver the services that
                                                              has been your experience. Do you want to go further on that, or
                                                              has enough been said?




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                                                                Mr. WAIBEL. I do believe the reason why I am a big fan of the
                                                              REAs is because of the fact we have local boards, local people that
                                                              we know that serve on these boards. And they are going to look out
                                                              for, number one, the most cost-effective ways to deliver that service
                                                              and, number two, what is good for the community.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. Ms. Schaffer, if I understand you, you are
                                                              criticizing USDA and others because they are trying to focus most
                                                              of their attention on making sure everybody is at a basic level so
                                                              they have some level of service. I think if you take the moneys and
                                                              start spreading them around in order that everybody has 100/100
                                                              or whatever before people can get to some decent level of line
                                                              speeds, that wouldn’t seem fair to me. What do you say to that?
                                                                Ms. SCHAFFER. You know, there is—so you can figure this out
                                                              through scoring on a grant process. So, instead of defining in the
                                                              application of who is eligible and who is not, you can give extra
                                                              points to a project that starts at essentially nothing and brings
                                                              them up to something. And that kind of process allows for you to
                                                              actually build out to more of the communities and make sure that
                                                              all the communities are on an equal footing.
                                                                And so I think when you define it in your eligibility standards,
                                                              you limit who is eligible. But if you can do it through a scoring
                                                              process of giving more points in an application for people who are
                                                              serving people who have worse service than others, then you can
                                                              accomplish the same thing, but you also get to serve more of that
                                                              community. So, instead of bringing a tiny little piece of that com-
                                                              munity to the modern world, you can bring the entire community
                                                              up. And I think to me, that is the important piece thinking about,
                                                              not just in the eligibility but really looking at how you score these
                                                              projects. And that gets rid of some of this concern about what is
                                                              traditionally called overbuilding.
                                                                I will say, in this country, we have much more interested
                                                              policywise in preventing people from getting two kinds of service
                                                              than making sure everybody has a service. So that is what when
                                                              you limit it to 25/3 or 10/1, that is what you end up doing.
                                                                Mr. HAGEDORN. It just seems to me that people who have no
                                                              service—I mean, this is why the government is involved in this.
                                                              This is why we are all together in a bipartisan fashion, we want
                                                              to make sure people have some level of basic service. And I think
                                                              that is where we should focus our attention. If we can get people
                                                              to higher speeds down the road, that is all well and good. And
                                                              maybe a private sector and others will help us out a little bit more,
                                                              but I think what Mr. Waibel and others have been saying, and I
                                                              agree with, that we should focus on those who have no connectivity
                                                              or have speed so slow, that they really aren’t able to compete and
                                                              participate like the vast majority of the people across the country.
                                                                So, with that, I yield back. Thanks, sir.
                                                                Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                Next, we will recognize Representative Roger Williams, Vice
                                                              Ranking Member of the Committee.
                                                                Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
                                                                Throughout my district in Texas, I constantly hear from constitu-
                                                              ents about unreliable or complete lack of internet, and that is in
                                                              Texas. Unfortunately, many of the Federal broadband dollars are
                                                              invested in the areas with the lowest cost of deployment, rather




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                                                              than the areas most in need. This has led to many rural areas of
                                                              the country continually being left behind in the digital economy as
                                                              we have heard this hearing. That is why I have introduced the bi-
                                                              partisan Eliminate the Digital Divide Act, that would give money
                                                              directly to the States to decide where the greatest need is for their
                                                              constituents.
                                                                 So, Mr. Waibel, thank you for being here. I too, I don’t have an
                                                              operation as large of yours, but we have calf, cow in Texas and a
                                                              few pigs so I appreciate what you are doing. In your testimony, you
                                                              discussed the disparities between urban and rural areas relating to
                                                              access to high-speed internet. Can you discuss the challenges your
                                                              community—and you have done that a little bit today—your com-
                                                              munity faces due to the lack of connectivity and how it puts them
                                                              as an economic disadvantage compared to your urban counterparts?
                                                                 Mr. WAIBEL. Certainly. So, if I would go 30 miles to the east
                                                              of here, we have a community of about 60,000 people. And certainly
                                                              the businesses, when I go down there for whether it be parts or
                                                              questions at my local FSA office, their internet service is just boom.
                                                              And it is there whereas when I am at home here with my service,
                                                              it—a lot of folks know that that there are times it will take me an
                                                              hour to get an email into my computer at home here. And that is
                                                              extremely frustrating. And I think, when we look at rural America,
                                                              we need to be on a level playing field. This to me is the most im-
                                                              portant thing for the future of my boys farming with us or all my
                                                              kids and my grandchildren to stay up to speed with whether it be
                                                              a town of 60,000 people or whether it be a town of 611 people, we
                                                              need to be on the same playing field. This is going to set the future
                                                              growth for our areas and the businesses that will hopefully estab-
                                                              lish and stay here in these small communities.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. I agree with that.
                                                                 When we hear about small businesses adjusting to the digital
                                                              economy, many of us think about brick-and-mortar retail stores
                                                              creating an Online presence. However, one of the greatest bene-
                                                              ficiaries of connected technology has been the agricultural industry.
                                                              We have seen new innovations that have the potential to increase
                                                              harvest yields, make watering schedules more efficient, and can
                                                              update machinery automatically. All these advancements can help
                                                              us better secure our food supply chain and properly feed our Na-
                                                              tion. Unfortunately, if we continue to leave the rural parts of our
                                                              country behind as we have heard, our farmers will not be table to
                                                              experience the benefits of these new technologies.
                                                                 So, Mr. Waibel, again how does access to broadband improve
                                                              your day-to-day business as a farmer? And what concerns do you
                                                              have in the future of farming, if the divide is not closed? You
                                                              touched on that a little bit, but I think that is important.
                                                                 Mr. WAIBEL. Yes, correct. You know, so, when I look at the
                                                              whole operation, we are moving, we are in this digital age, and I
                                                              think we are probably more—even though it seems like we are into
                                                              it a long ways, I think the future is only going to demand more of
                                                              it. And we use it just for everything. And it is only going to get
                                                              more and more.
                                                                 For those of you that aren’t that familiar with farming, when we
                                                              go into the field, we push a button, our boundaries are in the field,
                                                              and the tractor takes over and does what it needs to do. You are




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                                                              just in there for the ride basically and so on and so forth. So these
                                                              types of situations, the more advanced our implements get and the
                                                              more advanced our suppliers are, the more we are going to need
                                                              to continue to have these high-speed updates that it doesn’t take
                                                              us an hour to get something; it takes us a minute, a second to get
                                                              it. And that is where I think we really lack in rural America is the
                                                              fact that we really need to get this sped up.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you.
                                                                 Real quick, access to broadband is no longer a luxury but a ne-
                                                              cessity. Big corporate providers have shown that the economics of
                                                              connecting some of the most rural communities simply do not work.
                                                              If we want to provide internet to these communities, we need to
                                                              look for ways the Federal Government can better utilize the public-
                                                              private partnerships. By leveraging public funding through private
                                                              execution, we can tackle rural broadband infrastructure and close
                                                              the digital divide.
                                                                 So, Mr. Sullivan, real quick, what barriers typically keep private
                                                              citizens from entering into these partnerships? And how can we
                                                              incentivize them to participate in Federal grants such as the USDA
                                                              ReConnect Program to build out broadband infrastructure in rural
                                                              communities?
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. What has basically been happening is it is very
                                                              difficult with some providers to work with them. In that type of ar-
                                                              rangement, which is basically what has been happening in Maine
                                                              and across the Nation now for quite some time is a lot of the exist-
                                                              ing providers have been receiving Federal and State subsidies to
                                                              improve broadband. But they are not improving it to the level that
                                                              it will in my 5 minute speech here about trying to make it future
                                                              proof so that when we do these investments once, we don’t do them
                                                              multiple times because that is what has been happening. The exist-
                                                              ing ISPs are only going to put as much of their money in as they
                                                              can keep their costs as low as possible to keep their stockholders
                                                              happy. We understand that. That is how America works. But by in-
                                                              vesting public dollars with these partnerships without having mini-
                                                              mums. They ought to have some standards that say we aren’t going
                                                              to give money unless you can provide a 100/100 fiber connection be-
                                                              cause we know that connection can be upgraded, as others have
                                                              said, to a gig, to 10 gig, to 100 gig. I mean, that piece of investment
                                                              will always be there. So it is important that when these ISPs are
                                                              brought into a room, that they understand that. This is how we
                                                              need to focus the dollars that are coming from the public because
                                                              it should be there to serve the public.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. All right.
                                                                 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. My time is up. I turn to
                                                              you.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, sir.
                                                                 We will next recognize Representative Troy Carter from Lou-
                                                              isiana too.
                                                                 Mr. CARTER. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for
                                                              the opportunity. And either of you can take a stab at the question.
                                                              I hail there Louisiana where we have a fairly substantial amount
                                                              of our rural areas that are in fact challenged as relates to
                                                              broadband. And we know that, under the current guise of COVID,
                                                              COVID taught us that we will be relying much more on distant




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                                                              learning in classrooms, technology for businesses. And that neces-
                                                              sity brings the real attention to the fact that many parts of our
                                                              State and our country, but particularly the Second Congressional
                                                              District, we have issues with access to broadband from a basic
                                                              standpoint, but then when we juxtapose that with the reality of
                                                              poor people throughout our State, throughout our country that will
                                                              in fact—and I have heard the word several times ‘‘left behind’’
                                                              mentioned by some of my colleagues. What are the plans for obvi-
                                                              ously making sure that we have access to broadband in those areas
                                                              where there is no infrastructure? But, additionally, your thoughts
                                                              on how we level the playing field for our impoverished areas as
                                                              well. I am going to pick somebody, if somebody doesn’t jump in.
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. I think the piece we that do around on commu-
                                                              nity planning is a central element of this because it allows the com-
                                                              munity to understand the importance of affordability. I think
                                                              broadband has four pieces to it: the wire run by your house; can
                                                              you afford to connect to that wire; do you have a device; and do you
                                                              know how to use it? And when you began those community con-
                                                              versations, those last three pieces come in as a critical element of
                                                              it. And then you can design a network and pick a provider and pick
                                                              a partner that can give you that kind of connectivity. I think
                                                              Danny talked about how Downeast they have, they are providing
                                                              a high-quality service for about $60 per month. That is still
                                                              unaffordable to some families, but it begins to address sort of that
                                                              issue. And I think that that, to me, the critical piece about the com-
                                                              munity understanding and working with the provider and helping
                                                              to underwrite some of the infrastructure costs helps some of those
                                                              equations. But affordability is a key issue in this puzzle.
                                                                 Mr. CARTER. And what would you determine or think would be
                                                              the greatest barrier, from an educational standpoint, of informing
                                                              the public of their duty or their participation?
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. So do you mean participation in a planning
                                                              process or participation in getting internet?
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, you mentioned that a part of it was them
                                                              understanding and participating. So what is the greatest barrier to
                                                              that?
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. Some of that is really—and I think COVID has
                                                              resolved a little of this, is understanding what the internet can
                                                              bring to you. I mean, Tim has talked about farming. The USDA es-
                                                              timates that the farms with high-quality internet have about an 18
                                                              percent increase in capacity. So they are able to produce a lot more.
                                                              And that kind of activity can happen, as Matt talked about, on just
                                                              about every business level for tourism, businesses in those. And so
                                                              part of these conversations in the community is understanding the
                                                              needs of all of those businesses and making sure that the business
                                                              and people can engage in this understanding of what this service
                                                              can bring to your area.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. And I will tell you from Louisiana’s standpoint,
                                                              and I don’t think it is any different from many other places, but
                                                              certainly Louisiana we know now that broadband is a way of life.
                                                              It is not a luxury. It is not something you have as a one off. It is
                                                              essential. Yet we know that large swaths of our country, large
                                                              swaths of Louisiana do not have access to broadband, not just for




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                                                              education but also for daily use. We know that broadband in many
                                                              ways fuels our whole economy. It connects our world.
                                                                 So, as we go on through this discussion, Mr. Chairman, I would
                                                              Love to have further discussions on how we can advance those dis-
                                                              cussions, particularly around areas in those rural areas that have
                                                              really suffered. And COVID has taught us significantly what that
                                                              means to our economy and what it means it our world. So I thank
                                                              you all for your testimony and look forward to further discussion.
                                                                 I yield back.
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. I would like to weigh in on that for a second,
                                                              if possible.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Who was that?
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. I would like to weigh in on that point for just
                                                              a moment.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. He is out of time, but we will find a way
                                                              to work it in, Mr. Sullivan. The second round of questions, I will
                                                              just make a note.
                                                                 Next, we will recognize Representative Pete Stauber from Min-
                                                              nesota, Eighth District.
                                                                 Mr. STAUBER. I thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking
                                                              Member Hagedorn, for holding this hearing. And, to all the wit-
                                                              nesses who gave us their testimony, it is very, very valuable.
                                                                 I just have to reiterate what Mr. Waibel said a couple minutes
                                                              ago. He said, ‘‘Rural America must be placed on a level playing
                                                              field.’’
                                                                 Rural Representatives on both sides of the aisle have had it right
                                                              up to here with the lip service we have been given on expanding
                                                              broadband to rural communities. It is the time to do it right now.
                                                              We have the opportunity for investment, and rural America espe-
                                                              cially, as Congressman Carter just stated, has been extremely dev-
                                                              astated because of the lack of connectivity.
                                                                 Our hospitals need to be connected—our schools, our small busi-
                                                              nesses, and so many others in our rural communities—to get us on
                                                              that level and fair playing field so we can be connected, so we can
                                                              bring businesses to rural America.
                                                                 Mr. Waibel, in your testimony, you highlighted something that is
                                                              critical for people to understand. Our small towns and communities
                                                              in rural America have sat at a stark disadvantage for way too long.
                                                              It has left our kids at a disadvantage, and the studies—our seniors
                                                              at a disadvantage in their healthcare when we talk about tele-
                                                              health and telemedicine. And, for certain, our farmers are at a dis-
                                                              advantage for optimizing their yield.
                                                                 You also mentioned that not only do rural Americans lack access
                                                              to broadband; where some are lucky enough to have service, it is
                                                              inconsistent and expensive, and lack of competition means there is
                                                              nowhere else to turn.
                                                                 When we here in Congress are considering broadband invest-
                                                              ments and deployment options, we must be effective. Unfortu-
                                                              nately, in President Biden’s proposal, he prioritizes municipal
                                                              broadband networks or government-owned networks.
                                                                 In my home State of Minnesota, however, we have restrictions
                                                              against municipal broadband networks. In fact, 18 States total
                                                              have restrictions against such networks. I guess my constituents in
                                                              Minnesota’s Eighth Congressional District and Mr. Hagedorn’s con-




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                                                              stituents, like Mr. Waibel in Minnesota’s First Congressional Dis-
                                                              trict in Minnesota, and many other rural Americans take a back
                                                              seat under this piece of legislation. We count, and rural America
                                                              matters.
                                                                 So what is the good news? In the CARES Act and the consoli-
                                                              dated appropriations signed into law by President Trump, we were
                                                              able to get a lot of money out the door to help bridge the gap in
                                                              rural America. The money was unfettered by burdensome regula-
                                                              tion and helped stimulate private investment. This was a step in
                                                              the right direction.
                                                                 In these packages, a lot of different Federal agencies had been
                                                              tasked with the broadband deployment mission. This can be tricky
                                                              for some small businesses to navigate as we all know. That is why
                                                              I will soon be introducing the Small Business Broadband and
                                                              Emerging Information Technology Enhancement Act.
                                                                 This legislation will direct the Small Business Administration to
                                                              create a broadband coordinator position that will serve as the pri-
                                                              mary liaison to other Federal agencies involved in broadband de-
                                                              ployment and would identify and catalog tools, training, and best
                                                              practices for small businesses as it relates to broadband implemen-
                                                              tation and usage.
                                                                 It is my hope that legislation like mine and others will help bring
                                                              broadband investment to our rural communities, to that last mile
                                                              for economic development. The CARES Act gave us a great start,
                                                              and I think we need to take advantage of it.
                                                                 I know that Chair Golden and Ranking Member Hagedorn un-
                                                              derstand that. They both represent rural districts. And, Chair
                                                              Golden, as you alluded to, we did hear that we had a field hearing
                                                              on broadband development and deployment a year and a half ago.
                                                              In northern Minnesota and in upstate Maine, it was the same con-
                                                              cerns by our small businesses, our families, our family farmers,
                                                              and we have the opportunity right now to do it right.
                                                                 And, Mr. Waibel, I want to repeat what you said earlier. Rural
                                                              America must be put on a level and fair playing field now, and we
                                                              have the opportunity. And I know we have bipartisan support in
                                                              the Congress to do that, and I am looking forward to that.
                                                                 Mr. Chair, I yield back.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 Next, we are going to recognize Representative Antonio Delgado
                                                              from New York 19. I see him on the screen. I am not sure if he
                                                              has questions. We will give him 2 or 3 seconds here.
                                                                 All right. We will come back to him.
                                                                 Why don’t we move to another part of New York, Rep. Claudia
                                                              Tenney.
                                                                 Ms. TENNEY. Thank you so much, Chairman Golden and Rank-
                                                              ing Member Hagedorn, for holding this important meeting today,
                                                              and thank you to the witnesses for your time and your insight.
                                                                 As we have we have heard today, the internet connection can de-
                                                              termine your destiny, and nothing shapes our ability to access edu-
                                                              cation, healthcare, and employment opportunities like access to
                                                              rural broadband. The COVID-19 pandemic has only driven home
                                                              this point.
                                                                 Americans have never relied more heavily on reliable, accessible,
                                                              and affordable internet than they do today. Throughout New York’s




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                                                              22nd Congressional District, there are far too many communities
                                                              who do not have access to reliable broadband.
                                                                The digital divide is even more great when you consider our chil-
                                                              dren have less access to education, our seniors have less
                                                              connectivity with their doctors, and our business meetings are few
                                                              and far between because we are always spooling on our lack of ac-
                                                              cess to the internet.
                                                                And, to make matters worse—this, I think, is a critical issue—
                                                              upstate New York is subject to a broadband monopoly in New
                                                              York. New York State, under Governor Andrew Cuomo and the
                                                              State legislature, agreed to a cable consolidation plan under an
                                                              agreement with Spectrum, which they claimed that expanded im-
                                                              proved service. However, the State and New York State’s Public
                                                              Service Commission have absolutely failed to enforce the agree-
                                                              ment.
                                                                This has left too many rural customers in my district with non-
                                                              existent broadband service or service that is far too expensive. Just
                                                              this week alone, Spectrum has raised their rates seven times in
                                                              just a few years on New Yorkers.
                                                                The only solution is to increase competition in our internet mar-
                                                              ketplace. This means enacting policies that steer investment to
                                                              smaller upstart providers and reducing barriers to entry.
                                                                We must also encourage networks that can host multiple internet
                                                              service providers so someone’s geography does not limit their
                                                              choice. I think we can work on closing this internet gap and pro-
                                                              vide choice once and for all to upstate New Yorkers.
                                                                One thing I wanted to ask, I know, Ms. Schaffer, I wanted to ask
                                                              you this because you pointed out a couple important things about
                                                              getting access to internet. I just first wanted to ask you about how
                                                              the FCC data can—the data on broadband coverage and how it
                                                              speeds—affects speeds is inaccurate. These maps are often pivotal
                                                              to determine if a project is eligible for Federal funding.
                                                                This was raised to me in a recent broadband hearing I had in
                                                              my own town of Sherburne, New York, where our business is lo-
                                                              cated. From what your experience is, can Congress work with the
                                                              FCC to resolve this, and can we give some of this determination
                                                              on where we are going to allow speeds—can we give that back to
                                                              our local communities?
                                                                Ms. SCHAFFER. Yes and yes.
                                                                So the FCC map is based on advertised speed by Census block,
                                                              where one home in a Census block is served, then the entire Cen-
                                                              sus block is considered served. So that gives—you know, there are
                                                              Census blocks in rural America that are many hundreds of miles,
                                                              and if one location is served or could reasonably be served, then
                                                              that entire Census block is served, and it is no longer eligible for
                                                              any Federal funding.
                                                                That really puts a—you know, it—that shuts off an opportunity
                                                              for those—that area to get funding. They have to then rely on ei-
                                                              ther local funding or State funding to fill that hole. And really to
                                                              get these projects done, you need a capital stack. You need some
                                                              Federal money, you need some State money, you need some local
                                                              money, you need ISP money. That is really how rural America is
                                                              going to get served.




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                                                                 And, you know, one of the things that I recommended in my tes-
                                                              timony is moving this new Federal funds directly to State programs
                                                              because State programs are much more responsive to what is hap-
                                                              pening.
                                                                 Our State has a standard—broadband standard of 100 over 100
                                                              and an unserved standard of 50 over 10. So we have recognized the
                                                              importance of connectivity. And, if Federal funding flows to States,
                                                              then States can really craft projects and with the local people that
                                                              meets the local solutions and deals with——
                                                                 Ms. TENNEY. Let me just——
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER.—many of these issues.
                                                                 Ms. TENNEY. Let me just reclaim my time for a minute, because
                                                              I am running short.
                                                                 I wanted to emphasize I am concerned about the situation in
                                                              New York State where we continue to put millions of dollars into
                                                              providing a virtual monopoly to Spectrum Cable, which has been
                                                              a huge problem. When I served in the State Assembly, there was
                                                              a former Congressman named Chris Gibson in my other district.
                                                                 We put tons of money into broadband, and it didn’t go anywhere
                                                              but to these large entities, and now we have a problem—continuing
                                                              to have a problem with rural broadband. My question is, how do
                                                              we get the local governments to be able to participate in this?
                                                                 And, also, the village of Sherburne has been designated as a test
                                                              site to allow this municipal concept that is part of the bill that—
                                                              the infrastructure bill President Biden has proposed, but also give
                                                              choice and an opportunity for our consumers to choose their inter-
                                                              net and to have actually access to broadband with minimal rates
                                                              of speed as determined by the last farm bill?
                                                                 I have run out of time. I apologize. I have to catch up with you
                                                              on another question.
                                                                 I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 With that, I think we are going to move to a second round.
                                                                 Mr. Hagedorn, do you have further questions?
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Yeah, sure.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Okay. Go ahead. I am going to ask some,
                                                              too, but I will let you go first.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. All right. Thank you, Chairman.
                                                                 I think I want to associate myself with Congressman Stauber’s
                                                              comments and, to a degree, also Representative Tenney’s comments
                                                              on the Biden proposal.
                                                                 I mean, from my standpoint, if you are going to have 18 States
                                                              that just can’t participate because they already have restrictions on
                                                              these municipal broadband networks, that is pretty darn serious.
                                                              I don’t know why they would put that forward when basically a
                                                              third of the country is shut out. I guess they are trying to be a lit-
                                                              tle top-down on that one. I disagree. So I think what Congressman
                                                              Stauber said there was right on target.
                                                                 And, also, the telemedicine, I mean, really, if we have seen any-
                                                              thing here in the last year, it is how that has expanded and the
                                                              need for it. And the hospitals and providers have really dug in, and
                                                              I think the people have accepted it. And so, from the standpoint of
                                                              Congress, we need to make sure that those reimbursements are




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                                                              there. I think this is one of the few good things that came out of
                                                              the coronavirus situation, is the advent of telemedicine.
                                                                 In the State of Minnesota, every once in a while, we have inclem-
                                                              ent weather, believe it or not. What about Maine? I think same
                                                              thing in Maine, right? And so, when that happens, it is easy to still
                                                              go see your doctor, but also makes it more efficient for them, sen-
                                                              iors, disabled, you name it.
                                                                 Mr. Waibel, what do you think about telemedicine? Has it taken
                                                              off a little bit in your community? Are you seeing more and more
                                                              of it? Will it help the people in the rural areas?
                                                                 Mr. WAIBEL. Absolutely. So one of my daughters is an RN at
                                                              a local senior citizens’ living place. And, anyway, you know, so that
                                                              was used quite a lot during the pandemic for her patients and cli-
                                                              ents where she works. And I think, you know—I even actually used
                                                              it, too, one time. And it is certainly—it is a great option to have
                                                              and something that, again, is going to be used more and more in
                                                              the future, I believe.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you.
                                                                 Mr. Dunne, in your studies and the work that you are doing, do
                                                              you see job migration going from urban areas to rural areas if we
                                                              can have them on par as far as digital connectivity?
                                                                 Mr. DUNNE. We absolutely have. There was a lot of movement
                                                              pretty early in the pandemic, and, as I think another witness men-
                                                              tioned, people realized, boy, you know, going back to small towns
                                                              might be a lot better than being shoehorned into larger cities.
                                                                 But they need to be able to continue their aspirational jobs.
                                                              Many times, unfortunately, the narrative has become, if you want
                                                              to stay in your, you know, the community that you love, you have
                                                              to give up that aspiration and those goals to be able to do things
                                                              on a national or global basis.
                                                                 If you have broadband, that is not the choice you have to make.
                                                              You know, the young people who have been supported by those
                                                              communities to be able to go off to college can come home and par-
                                                              ticipate and sometimes bring their jobs with them or create new
                                                              businesses based on the experiences that they have had both in
                                                              that community and in their experiences outside of it.
                                                                 So we do see this as a moment to reverse the population decline
                                                              that really we only saw for the first time in a generation in 2011,
                                                              2012, and 2013. Even the farm crisis didn’t lead to a net population
                                                              loss.
                                                                 So we are at a moment where we need to move quickly. COVID
                                                              has created that opportunity, but we need infrastructure like fu-
                                                              ture-proof broadband in order to make that a reality.
                                                                 Mr. HAGEDORN. I appreciate that.
                                                                 Mr. Sullivan, I want to ask you just a little bit more about your
                                                              experience. It is pretty fascinating.
                                                                 You are serving some rural communities, but what about the out-
                                                              lying areas where you may have farms. Are you also able to run
                                                              the fiber to those locations?
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes. When we started this project, we made the
                                                              commitment or the towns made the commitment that every single
                                                              person who had a telephone pole within reach of their home would
                                                              be served. So, right now, we have got about 99 percent of both
                                                              those towns are served. We have got two outlying areas similar to




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                                                              what you are talking about that we are working on right now. So,
                                                              by the end of this year, they will be connected as well.
                                                                  So we have got some stretches where we go 6, 7, 8 miles to get
                                                              one house.
                                                                  Mr. HAGEDORN. Well, if Congress wanted to help and make
                                                              what you do a demonstration project or expand it, what could the
                                                              Federal Government do in order to be helpful, other than maybe
                                                              get out of the way?
                                                                  Mr. SULLIVAN. I think a better understanding of, you know,
                                                              what is actually happening out there. And I am going to pick up
                                                              a couple of points, one from the Representative in New York about
                                                              the cable monopoly there.
                                                                  That situation is—was allowed to happen. Cable companies don’t
                                                              compete with anybody. They have got their own highways. They
                                                              just basically do what they want, so that is difficult for other ISPs
                                                              to come in. So competition doesn’t exist.
                                                                  That is another piece that is another important aspect to this, is
                                                              the—to the ranking committee member’s comment there about get-
                                                              ting some service to somebody or to everybody, I have been teach-
                                                              ing old and young and rich and poor for over 45 years, and I can
                                                              tell you, once you drag them over the digital divide, you get them
                                                              working, if you build them a network that doesn’t work, they are
                                                              frustrated, they are angry, and they won’t use it.
                                                                  It will cause more issues by giving them just something because
                                                              the way it works now, without symmetrical connections up and
                                                              down—there is more and more stuff being done with cloud-based
                                                              computing; you have got to have those uploads. And those copper-
                                                              based networks of cable, fixed wireless, satellite don’t have the ca-
                                                              pacity to do that, and you will basically be wasting money after
                                                              money has already been wasted.
                                                                  Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you. My time has expired. Appreciate
                                                              it.
                                                                  Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. I think Mr. Sullivan has talked
                                                              about that a lot. Nothing more frustrating than seeing your tax
                                                              dollars get put to some kind of internet solution, and then you still
                                                              get the spinning wheel, whether you are a student or a small busi-
                                                              ness owner.
                                                                  So, Representative Williams, did you want to ask further ques-
                                                              tions?
                                                                  Mr. WILLIAMS. Sure.
                                                                  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                  Ms. Schaffer, a recent article by the Technology Policy Institute
                                                              pointed out that, as the bar gets higher, more areas become eligible
                                                              for subsidies while the costs of serving the truly unserved in-
                                                              creases.
                                                                  Do you agree with this statement?
                                                                  Ms. SCHAFFER. Well, no. Actually, I mean, I think that—you
                                                              know, this is infrastructure that is going to last 50 years, so we
                                                              should build infrastructure that is going to meet the demands of
                                                              people for 50 years. And, as I said, when you look—you know, we
                                                              run a grant program, and, when you are looking at providing
                                                              grants, there are many, many ways through scoring that you can
                                                              really give advantage to areas that have really bad broadband.




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                                                                 But it is important when they build it, that they bring it up to
                                                              a standard that is going to be essentially future-proof, and that is
                                                              what we try to do with our grant program. So I think you can man-
                                                              age this pretty easily through a grant process to make sure that
                                                              the people who have the worst service have the best opportunity
                                                              in a competitive grant to get better service.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. Let me have a followup to you.
                                                                 How do we ensure that we continue to focus deployment for
                                                              unconnected areas rather than upgrading systems that are already
                                                              in place?
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. So, you know, one of the definitions of—when
                                                              you—even when the FCC defines 25/3 as served, people who have
                                                              less than 25/3, you know, are still eligible for that Federal funding.
                                                              So you are going to overbuild that network because we know it
                                                              doesn’t meet today’s standards.
                                                                 And so I think it is important when we look at this to under-
                                                              stand that, first off, the incumbent provider is the most likely to
                                                              build—to rebuild their network because they are there already. So
                                                              they have the customers, they have the structure, and so providing
                                                              opportunities for the incumbent provider to improve their service,
                                                              by overbuilding their own network, shall we say, with better serv-
                                                              ice, is really critical.
                                                                 And so that is part of trying to figure out how we get better serv-
                                                              ice to these people. It is not just—every time we are building net-
                                                              works, it is not like we are bringing—we are not often bringing in
                                                              a new provider. We are usually providing the small local incumbent
                                                              provider who has been there for a long, long time the ability to up-
                                                              grade service that they already have to the customers they already
                                                              have.
                                                                 So overbuilding is really about improving service to customer
                                                              bases. Sometimes that is the existing provider that does it. And, if
                                                              the existing provider doesn’t want to do it, then sometimes it is
                                                              bringing in a new provider. But it is making sure, at the end, with
                                                              Federal dollars and State dollars, taxpayer money, that you are
                                                              providing a service that can meet the needs of that area for now
                                                              and into the future.
                                                                 Mr. WILLIAMS. Okay. Thank you for your testimony, and I yield
                                                              the remaining time back to the Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, sir.
                                                                 Representative Carter, I think you want to give Mr. Sullivan a
                                                              little more time.
                                                                 Mr. CARTER. Yeah. Sorry. I think Mr. Sullivan indicated he
                                                              wanted to respond to one of my questions, but we were out of time.
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. Right. I was going back to the—to the idea
                                                              about—I kind of answered some of this previously, but we were
                                                              speaking about the rural areas and the poor areas where people,
                                                              you know, can’t afford the service even if it is there. It is important
                                                              that the service we do provide everybody in America is one that
                                                              works, and that is what I mentioned previously.
                                                                 That is what I was—kind of shoehorned in my answer to your
                                                              question when you ran out of time. But basically my answer to that
                                                              is that we need to build networks that work and that will work for
                                                              the next 50-plus years, as Peggy said. Doing something less than
                                                              that will just frustrate us 5 years down the road.




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                                                                 Mr. CARTER. But would you not agree that, in 2021, the infra-
                                                              structure for broadband is as essential as water, plumbing, elec-
                                                              tricity? I think we have to be realistic and talk about those things
                                                              that are meritorious of funding. And I don’t think we have the lux-
                                                              ury. This is not Republican or Democrat. If there is anything that
                                                              has ever been bipartisan, broadband for our country is certainly a
                                                              bipartisan issue that we can no longer afford to kick the can down
                                                              the road.
                                                                 I feel the frustration of many of my colleagues who have had it
                                                              up to their ears with shoddy broadband or no broadband at all.
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. Well, that is what we did with the Downeast
                                                              Broadband Utility, is we built a utility that is similar to roads, you
                                                              know, sewer, water. It is a piece of infrastructure that we know is
                                                              not going away. It is only going to get more and more used. It is
                                                              going to need more and more robust nature where—fiber will do
                                                              that. That is why we are such big proponents.
                                                                 And, if you look here in Maine—and this isn’t just Maine. I have
                                                              been contacted across this entire country by people that want to set
                                                              up competitive municipal networks where multiple ISPs come in
                                                              and fight for your business. It drives costs down. It improves serv-
                                                              ice. I mean, it is basically the American competitive way.
                                                                 We have allowed forever cable companies to monopolize. We have
                                                              enabled phone companies to monopolize. You know, we—the cable
                                                              company that—we have Spectrum in Maine. We don’t have
                                                              Comcast. They don’t fight with each other. Comcast says: Listen,
                                                              you take New Hampshire; and, Spectrum, you can have Maine.
                                                                 That doesn’t bring, you know, good service to our citizens. And
                                                              I—again, I said in my testimony, a private business should be al-
                                                              lowed to do what they want with their own money, but we are talk-
                                                              ing about our money, everybody in this room and everybody across
                                                              this country. And I think it is incumbent on all of us to be in the
                                                              room when these dollars are being talked about and not just have
                                                              the existing ISPs in there pulling the ears on legislators and people
                                                              who make the decisions.
                                                                 You have got to get the rank and file. Bring those farmers in.
                                                                 Mr. CARTER. Thank you.
                                                                 I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 Mr. Sullivan, I was actually going to ask just a followup on Mr.
                                                              Hagedorn. You talked about how you are getting service to every
                                                              door in your community, including, you know, the ones down the
                                                              long dirt driveways in the most rural of areas. But what about the
                                                              technology Mr. Waibel was talking about with tractors and such?
                                                                 Can we provide that type of coverage with fiber like what you
                                                              talk about, or is that a satellite-only solution?
                                                                 Mr. SULLIVAN. Oh, wouldn’t I—oh, I am so glad somebody
                                                              asked that question. I have been spouting this forever.
                                                                 If America put fiber on the telephone poles like we did electricity
                                                              to every single pole in this country, we could probably eliminate 80
                                                              percent of your ugly cell towers out there. You can run little mini
                                                              antennas. Cell towers always have to connect back to a fiber con-
                                                              nection. That is how it works. There is a few that use microwave,
                                                              but, by and large, it is all going back to fiber.




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                                                                 You can put the ubiquitous coverage all over your farms. You
                                                              could put them in your distant forests. You could put it across this
                                                              entire Nation. We just—we need to have a focus that says, Let’s
                                                              look at this like electricity. I know that is like—everybody is bored
                                                              to death with hearing that analogy. But it basically is it. We have
                                                              got to hang these fiber cables across the entire Nation, and we will
                                                              solve a multitude of problems.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 You know, this is a great—really is, I think, a helpful hearing.
                                                              There is a lot of proposals out there. I know—you know, there has
                                                              been some discussion about the Jobs Plan put out there by the
                                                              White House, but there is also some work being done in the Sen-
                                                              ate, and I think recently they announced—Mr. Waibel, you talked
                                                              about Representative Thompson’s bill. I haven’t seen it, so I will
                                                              have to look at that.
                                                                 And then I am a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus, and we
                                                              have got a different infrastructure proposal that includes some
                                                              broadband as well.
                                                                 So plenty of room for good compromise.
                                                                 Some of the stuff, like today, I mean, through what I have seen
                                                              in Calais and Baileyville, Maine, I have become a great believer in
                                                              what Mr. Sullivan has worked on with trying to empower localities
                                                              to take—empower themselves, owning that, you know, fiber for
                                                              themselves. And you have done it in a really unique way, like you
                                                              said, without raising taxes and without Federal dollars. It is locally
                                                              owned.
                                                                 Ms. Schaffer, I am impressed by the way that your organization
                                                              works with the State to leverage private and local matches, getting
                                                              the most out of the Federal dollars that are being sent into Maine.
                                                              So I think that is something important for us to look at as well.
                                                                 And I just had to quickly comment. When you were talking about
                                                              advertised speed, man, that is an old problem and one we talked
                                                              about in the last Congress, and hopefully we can continue to im-
                                                              prove upon that.
                                                                 I don’t—what is the solution there? Is it—I mean, obviously just
                                                              one firm, one house is the problem. Is it a percentage of people
                                                              served in the Census block have to have true access to advertised
                                                              speed? I mean, how would you unravel that problem?
                                                                 Ms. SCHAFFER. Well, first, I wouldn’t use advertised speed. I
                                                              would use actually delivered speed, because there is a big dif-
                                                              ference. What people can advertise and what they can deliver are
                                                              two—often two different numbers.
                                                                 And, really, one of the things that we know about broadband is
                                                              it is—you really need granular data. You need it down to the street
                                                              level. And Census block level is just not enough.
                                                                 One of the things that we are doing in Maine and they are doing
                                                              in Minnesota is we are doing a crowdsource speed testing to help
                                                              inform our data decisions as well as the other data that we are col-
                                                              lecting. The FCC is starting to do that kind of work, but it is really
                                                              important that you—when you look at that kind of data, you are
                                                              including a customer’s voice, you are including what they are actu-
                                                              ally getting at their house in the larger picture of what the data—
                                                              what the service is available.




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                                                                 So I would not do—I would not do advertised speeds. I would do
                                                              it at a—the closest you can get to the street level. And the other
                                                              piece is that you should really audit what companies are telling
                                                              you that they are—can provide. So they say they can provide X.
                                                              Are they actually providing it? And crowdsource speed testing is
                                                              one way you can do that.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
                                                                 You know, one thing I have to say about Maine that is unique
                                                              is, when we talk about small towns, like, we are talking about very
                                                              small towns. As you know, the largest community in Maine’s Sec-
                                                              ond Congressional District is Lewiston. That is, you know, about
                                                              30,000 people. That is our biggest population center.
                                                                 But there are, you know, 350 other towns, and some of them are
                                                              very small. So that is why we need that flexibility, I think. And
                                                              some of these programs are why, as you said, your organization can
                                                              be a good approach, or the one like Mr. Sullivan’s community has
                                                              taken upon themselves.
                                                                 But I wanted to ask quickly, last question for me anyway, Mr.
                                                              Dunne, I see that you—CORI is looking at doing work in
                                                              Waterville, Maine. How do you find and invest in communities as
                                                              part of the Rural Innovation Network, and as, I guess, a good ex-
                                                              ample, why Waterville?
                                                                 Mr. DUNNE. Sure. So Waterville is an extraordinary community,
                                                              as you know, that has gone through a transition from being a man-
                                                              ufacturing community to something else. And it was a tough tran-
                                                              sition when the textile mills closed and the like.
                                                                 But a group of leaders, including the Central Maine Growth
                                                              Council and some unofficial leaders who just redeveloped some of
                                                              those old mill buildings, created cowork spaces, and just started
                                                              making things happen on their own. And there has also been some
                                                              real leadership from Colby College. And your small, 4-year, you
                                                              know, liberal arts colleges don’t always step up to be engaged in
                                                              their community.
                                                                 Colby College really is, because they know it is critical to their
                                                              future, their ability to attract faculty in the future and to be a
                                                              world-class college.
                                                                 So, when we saw all those things coming together and the beau-
                                                              tiful cowork spaces, the redeveloped mill building that is where
                                                              Bricks is located, we saw an opportunity. We partnered with them
                                                              to help them put together a real strategy plan and to be able to
                                                              then apply for federal EDA funding through the Build to Scale pro-
                                                              gram, which they received.
                                                                 And so they got some state funding help. They got some federal
                                                              funding help. They got local energy that is happening, and they are
                                                              in the process of building a high-tech accelerator program for new
                                                              businesses. They are doing training programs. They are engaging
                                                              students and faculty and folks locally who are looking for new eco-
                                                              nomic opportunities.
                                                                 So they found us, and we have just been delighted. We are also
                                                              continuing other conversations with communities in Maine as well.
                                                                 Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. I appreciate that.
                                                                 Any further questions? All right.
                                                                 Well, I want to thank all of our witnesses again for joining us
                                                              today. Your testimony has highlighted how crucial reliable




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                                                              broadband access is just critical to the small businesses all over the
                                                              country, particularly in our rural areas. So the internet has revolu-
                                                              tionized the way that many small businesses operate. It has al-
                                                              lowed them to reach customers in new markets and save money via
                                                              new technologies.
                                                                 The longer certain small businesses don’t have reliable internet
                                                              access, unfortunately, the further they fall behind. That is why,
                                                              here in Congress, we need to work together to find solutions that
                                                              facilitate the expansion of broadband infrastructure.
                                                                 As we consider broadband infrastructure proposals, we have got
                                                              to look to update our digital infrastructure for the 21st century.
                                                                 I look forward to working with my colleagues in Congress on
                                                              closing the digital divide and evening the playing field for small
                                                              businesses.
                                                                 With that, I would ask unanimous consent that members have
                                                              five legislative days to submit statements and supporting materials
                                                              for the record.
                                                                 Without objection, so ordered.
                                                                 If there is no further business to come before the Committee, we
                                                              are adjourned.
                                                                 Thank you.
                                                                 [Whereupon, at 11:29 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]




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                                                                                                   APPENDIX




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                                                                                                              45




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                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00049   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              46




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 46 here 44823.017


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00050   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              47




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 47 here 44823.018


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00051   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              48




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 48 here 44823.019


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00052   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              49




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 49 here 44823.020


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00053   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              50




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 50 here 44823.021


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00054   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              51




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 51 here 44823.022


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00055   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              52




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 52 here 44823.023


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00056   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              53




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 53 here 44823.024


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00057   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              54




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 54 here 44823.025


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00058   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              55




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 55 here 44823.026


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00059   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              56




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 56 here 44823.027


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00060   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              57




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 57 here 44823.028


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00061   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              58




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 58 here 44823.029


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00062   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              59




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 59 here 44823.030


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00063   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              60




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 60 here 44823.031


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00064   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              61




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 61 here 44823.032


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00065   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              62




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 62 here 44823.033


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00066   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              63




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 63 here 44823.034


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00067   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              64




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 64 here 44823.035


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00068   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              65




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 65 here 44823.036


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00069   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              66




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 66 here 44823.037


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00070   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              67




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 67 here 44823.038


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00071   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6602   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE
                                                                                                              68




                                                                                                                  Æ




SBD026 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                      Insert offset folio 68 here 44823.039


                        VerDate Mar 15 2010   12:39 Sep 28, 2021   Jkt 000000   PO 00000   Frm 00072   Fmt 6602   Sfmt 6011   F:\DOCS\44823.TXT   DEBBIE


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CHRG-117hhrg44823.pdf
Size
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SHA-256
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Our copy
CHRG-117hhrg44823.pdf
Original
www.govinfo.gov
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