Small Business and the Clean Energy Economy: Lowering Costs and Increasing Resilience (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, September 13, 2024)
Summary
The printed record of S. Hrg. 118–526, a field hearing of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship titled Small Business and the Clean Energy Economy: Lowering Costs and Increasing Resilience, held September 13, 2024 at the University of New Hampshire at Manchester and printed in 2025. The committee met at 10:36 a.m. with Chair Jeanne Shaheen presiding as the only senator present. Four witnesses testified: Sarah Waring, State Director for Vermont and New Hampshire at USDA Rural Development; Sam Evans-Brown, Executive Director of Clean Energy NH; Dan Weeks, Vice President for Business Development at ReVision Energy, Nashua; and Melissa Florio, President of Ambix Manufacturing, Freedom, NH. Statements for the record came from Ranking Member Joni Ernst and State Senator Rebecca Perkins Kwoka. The hearing adjourned at 11:54 a.m.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Small Business and the Clean Energy Economy: Lowering Costs and Increasing Resilience (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, September 13, 2024).”
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S. Hrg. 118–526
SMALL BUSINESS AND THE CLEAN ENERGY
ECONOMY: LOWERING COSTS AND
INCREASING RESILIENCE
FIELD HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
SEPTEMBER 13, 2024
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
57–903 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado TED BUDD, North Carolina
SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
MEREDITH WEST, Republican Staff Director
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CONTENTS
SEPTEMBER 13, 2024
Page
WITNESSES
Ms. Sarah Waring, State Director, Vermont and New Hampshire USDA,
Rural Development, Montpelier, VT ................................................................... 4
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 7
Mr. Sam Evans-Brown, Executive Director, Clean Energy NH, Concord, NH .. 10
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 12
Mr. Dan Weeks, Vice President, Business Development, ReVision Energy,
Nashua, NH .......................................................................................................... 19
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 22
Ms. Melissa Florio, President, Ambix Manufacturing, Freedom, NH ................. 32
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 35
ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
Ranking Member Joni Ernst
Statement dated September 13, 2024 ............................................................. 47
Rebecca Perkins Kwoka, New Hampshire State Senator
Statement dated September 12, 2024 ............................................................. 49
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SMALL BUSINESS AND THE CLEAN ENERGY
ECONOMY: LOWERING COSTS AND INCREAS-
ING RESILIENCE
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2024
U.S. SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:36 a.m., in Univer-
sity of New Hampshire at Manchester, Pandora Mill Building,
Room 201, 88 Commercial Street, Manchester, NH 03101, Hon.
Jeanne Shaheen, chairman of the committee, presiding.
Present: Senator Shaheen [presiding].
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHAHEEN
The CHAIRMAN. Good morning. I am Jeanne Shaheen. I am cur-
rently the chair of the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Com-
mittee in the Senate.
And I am so excited to be able to be doing this hearing in New
Hampshire with a number of our small business owners in New
Hampshire who have worked on energy issues, as well as with
some Government folks who are here to talk about what is avail-
able for resources for small businesses.
So, thank you all for joining us. I will officially open the hearing
as soon as we hear from Dean Decelle who heads UNH Man-
chester, and we are so delighted to have you host this morning.
Mr. DECELLE. Thank you, Senator.
[Technical problems.]
Mr. DECELLE. For those of you who have not been here before,
this is the University of New Hampshire’s urban campus. We are
home to about 1,000 graduate and undergraduate students here on
campus. We have been here in the Millyard, this building in par-
ticular, since 2015. It is part of the university’s commitment to sup-
port of students that want to attend their college education closer
to home.
We are in general a commuter school that serves students that
have complicated life stories. They work, they have families. And
so we occupy, we think, a special space in the higher education in-
frastructure here. We also consider ourselves a gathering space. So
we support K through 12 student outreach programs. We also, at
the other end of the spectrum, deploy continuing education pro-
grams for adult learners. So we have a New Hampshire extension
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office here.
(1)
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We also have the Osher Lifelong Learning Institute. We really
see a spectrum of learners not limited to college learners. So this
kind of conversation is something that we really are proud to sup-
port.
This conversation in particular holds a special spot for me. Be-
fore being here in higher ed, I spent several years running a re-
newable energy company down in Cambridge, Massachusetts. So
this—there’s more. [Laughter.]
Mr. DECELLE. So I hope you have a great conversation. I am
looking forward to listening in to it as well. And enjoy your morn-
ing. Thanks. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRMAN. The Senate Committee on Small Business and
Entrepreneurship will come to order. It is really an honor to be
here today, and we very much appreciate Dean Decelle’s remarks
and hosting us this morning.
I want to welcome our witnesses who I will introduce officially
in a few minutes, but I want to introduce some of the folks who
are making this hearing possible this morning. And I think some
of you have attended other small business hearings that we have
held in New Hampshire, but for those of you who haven’t, this is
just like a hearing in Washington, DC.
We have the staff from the committee who have come up to make
sure that we take notes, that everything is conducted properly. All
of the testimony will go into the committee’s record and will be
shared with the other members of the committee. And so, anything
that is done here will be done just as if we were in Washington,
DC.
So with that in mind, let me introduce some of the people from
the committee who are making this possible. And you will see how
many people it takes to do some of this. First, I want to introduce
Sean Moore, who is the staff director for the committee. He works
for the majority because we are divided into majority and minority
on the committee as we are on all committees.
Sujin Kim, who is with the majority staff. Sebastian Rojas, who
is also with the majority staff. Kathryn Eden, who is the chief
clerk. Kathryn, there you are. And then from the minority staff, we
have Meredith West, who is the minority staff director. Thanks for
joining us. And Corey Cooke, who is also with the minority staff,
who actually went to UNH law, right? So, it’s nice to have all of
you here.
Thank you, and particularly nice for them to be here in New
Hampshire at this time of year, right. I also want to introduce
some of the folks from my personal staff who it is important, I
think, for all of you to know. Tina Kasim works with small busi-
ness issues with the staff. She is in the back of the room.
Elizabeth McKenna, who is on my energy staff, is here. Raise
your hand so everybody knows how to find you at the end of this
hearing. Jen Hughes is doing communications, so she will be tak-
ing pictures if you see her with the camera. John Jarvis is the head
of operations for our offices, in the back.
And Will Garrity Binger is here from Washington. He does small
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business issues on the Washington staff. And Janelle DiLuccia does
energy issues on the Washington staff. She is also here. And Robin
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Hwang, who I think is here someplace. Where is he? Okay, good.
He is signing people in.
So any of them, feel free if you have questions or there is some-
thing that you think our office could help with, please contact us
and let us know. Now, to get back to the official remarks. Today,
we are going to discuss an issue that I think is of real importance
to small business. It is important to all of us but small businesses
because they are on the cutting edge and often it is more of a con-
cern for them.
We are going to talk about energy efficiency and reducing energy
costs for small businesses. It is an issue that I have been very in-
terested in since before I was Governor. Particularly energy effi-
ciency, because I think efficiency is the cheapest, fastest way to
deal with our energy needs.
And now, as the drivers of our economy, small businesses feel the
squeeze of increasing costs first. They are especially vulnerable to
market volatility. And as we saw after Russia invaded Ukraine in
2022, it is a particular challenge.
In 2021, Congress passed what we call the bipartisan infrastruc-
ture law that really invests in clean energy in a way that we had
not to the same extent in the past. It includes a robust energy
workforce and a cleaner, more reliable electric grid.
And there are key provisions in that legislation that I worked on
with Rob Portman, who was then a Senator from Ohio. He and I
had worked on that legislation for a decade. When we negotiated
the bipartisan infrastructure law, we were able to get many of the
provisions in there to address energy efficiency, to address electric
vehicle infrastructure, to help us revitalize brownfield sites, and ul-
timately, hopefully create more good paying jobs in our commu-
nities.
A year later, Congress passed the most significant climate legis-
lation in history, which is designed to dramatically reduce green-
house gas emissions and invest in clean energy generation. That
act invests nearly $370 billion in clean energy through expanded
tax credits and funding for programs like the Rural Energy for
America Program.
And we have a number of folks here who we are going to talk
about a little later who can help put people in touch with some of
those resources that are available. But the programs are aimed di-
rectly at small businesses and at farms in States like New Hamp-
shire, where we have a big rural part of our economy.
Clean and efficient energy benefits everyone across all parts of
New Hampshire, and for small businesses, it can slash energy bills
while keeping up profits and keeping our communities vibrant. It
also helps insulate small businesses from increasing costs. And
what we are seeing more and more is severe weather from climate
change. We see that here in New Hampshire. We see it around the
world.
They are beginning to affect energy prices everywhere. And
again, small businesses are the first to be affected by some of those
higher energy prices. That’s why it is so important to make sure
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that our small businesses can access the resources that are avail-
able to help with affordable, clean energy.
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There are a lot of tools and opportunities that are available to
our small businesses to cut costs and transition to clean energy.
And following today’s hearing, we will have representatives from
several federally supported agencies and State, we have a number
of State organizations with us as well, who we are going to talk
about what is available to small businesses.
They are here to try and answer your questions and to be help-
ful. So, thank you again to our witnesses for joining us and for your
testimony today and for being part of this discussion. And now I
will begin and introduce each of our witnesses. First, Sarah
Waring, who is on the far right, is the State Director for Vermont
and New Hampshire at the United States Department of Agri-
culture Rural Development, or USDA RD.
I am sure that all of you get very frustrated with some of the
acronyms, so I will try not to use them. But in her role, Ms. Waring
administers a number of key rural development programs, includ-
ing the highly successful Rural Energy for America Program, or
REA. We are so delighted that you are here with us, Sarah, and
looking forward to hearing your testimony.
Next to Sarah is Sam Evans-Brown, who is the Executive Direc-
tor at Clean Energy New Hampshire. It is an advocacy organiza-
tion that is working to move the State toward a cleaner and more
resilient energy future. Clean Energy New Hampshire also pro-
vides technical assistance to small businesses on how to transition
to clean energy and lower their energy costs.
Mr. Evans-Brown grew up in the Lakes region of the Granite
State, and he spent over 10 years as a podcast host and radio jour-
nalist with New Hampshire Public Radio before joining Clean En-
ergy New Hampshire. So you should be able to know how to get
the word out about this.
Next to Sam is Dan Weeks, who is Vice President of Business
Development at ReVision Energy. ReVision is an employee owned,
Certified B Corp solar installation company. They work directly
with small firms to help them secure funding for their clean energy
transition and complete their solar installations.
Mr. Weeks is a 12th generation Granite Stater. That has got to
be close to a record setting, Dan. And he has over seven years of
experience at ReVision, leading and working with commercial and
institutional partners to accelerate the clean energy transition.
And finally is Melissa Florio, who is President of Ambix Manu-
facturing. It is a small business in the White Mountains who pro-
vides plastic engineering and custom contact injection molding
manufacturing. And I am sure she will explain it much better than
I when we get to her testimony.
She also serves on the Small Business Administration’s Office of
the National Ombudsman Regulatory Fairness Board for Region
One, a very important role. So again, thank you all for being here,
and I will ask Sarah to begin.
STATEMENT OF SARAH WARING, STATE DIRECTOR, VERMONT
AND NEW HAMPSHIRE, USDA RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MONT-
PELIER, VERMONT
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Ms. WARING. Chairwoman Shaheen, and for the entire Senate
Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, it is an honor
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to be here today and to provide testimony on this really important
issue for New Hampshire businesses and for rural America, low-
ering energy costs and putting money back in the pockets of our
entrepreneurs. It is a crucial discussion, and I am honored to be
a part of the hearing.
My name is Sarah Waring. I am the Rural Development State
Director for New Hampshire, the Granite State, and Vermont, the
Green Mountain State. And first, I would like to offer my heartfelt
condolences to the communities in Grafton and Coös County, who
are still struggling to recover from flooding events this summer,
and for our farmers and producers who are managing the impacts
of last year’s devastating May frost.
For as long as it takes, the Biden-Harris Administration and
USDA Rural Development and our sister agencies will deploy every
resource we have to be able to help rebuild and recover in New
Hampshire.
As I mentioned, our jurisdiction covers two States, and both of
those States are pretty rural. So 70 percent of New Hampshire
residents and 90 percent of Vermonters live in communities with
fewer than 5,000 people. Both States have heavily weighted em-
ployment percentages towards educational services, health care,
and social services, which is why small business development is so
important in our region.
According to the SBA, there are over 130,000 small businesses
operating in New Hampshire as of last year, and that employs
about 49 percent of our State’s workforce. Today, I will focus on one
of our flagship programs that lowers costs for those small busi-
nesses, but I want to first take a moment to tell you a little bit
about how our agency injects money directly into rural commu-
nities through housing, infrastructure development, and business
support.
We have over 70 grant and loan programs and products available
that we offer nationwide. Over the last five years, we have invested
roughly $1.3 billion in the Twin States, and that translates to more
than 3,400 families with safe housing, 570 businesses supported
and lowering their costs, and 260 community institutions, from
town halls and transfer stations to high schools and hospitals that
have been built or modernized.
Today, my focus is on the rural Energy for America or REAP pro-
gram. The Biden-Harris Administration’s historic and bipartisan
Inflation Reduction Act saw significant changes to that program
that has created an incredible response from our customers. REAP
offers two pathways to funding, one for renewable energy projects
and the others for energy efficiency projects. Under the Inflation
Reduction Act, these program elements doubled.
The grant match went from just 25 percent of total project cost
to 50 percent, and the dollar amounts went from $250,000 for an
energy efficiency project, to $500,000, or $500,000 to $1 million for
renewable energy projects. Since the beginning of the Biden-Harris
Administration, USDA Rural Development has invested in 7,566
REAP projects in America for a total of $2.2 billion across the coun-
try.
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And on average, the projects lower energy costs for businesses
and recipients by about $25,000 annually, and they create enough
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clean energy to power 630,000 households each year. I want to
share just two stories from New Hampshire. A Place to Grow is a
nature based childcare, founded and franchised in Brentwood by
Jen Legere. In 2018, she applied for two small REAP grants, one
to weatherize her building and one for installing solar.
With these combined projects, she saved her childcare business
around $6,000 a year. Another good example is the Candia First
Stoppe, which is a unique country store, gas station, truck stop,
restaurant, and event space where co-owners Joe Sobol and Craig
St. Peter jumped at the chance for nearly $838,000 grant in late
2023, which will install a 561.6 kilowatt solar array. This system
will translate to more than $133,000 in annual savings for their
business.
So whether the projects are large or small, they are ultimately
making a big difference on the bottom line for our small busi-
nesses. I also want to celebrate our technical assistance partners,
the New Hampshire Community Development Finance Authority,
who is here today, Clean Energy New Hampshire, who is here
today, have worked alongside Rural Development for years, sup-
porting businesses and communities alike to navigate Federal
funding.
Now, the Energy Circuit Rider Program, which Sam will talk
more about, has been significantly expanded through Inflation Re-
duction Act, REAP technical assistance grants, where they work
hand in hand with businesses to gain access to our funding. How-
ever, our supply has not met the demand, and the numbers tell the
story.
In New Hampshire, we received 26 applications in 2022, 54 ap-
plications in 2023, and as of today, 84 applications in 2024. New
Hampshire customers alone this year are requesting $21 million of
energy improvements and renewable energy projects. When we in-
clude our Vermont applications, the demand has jumped 100 per-
cent in 2023 and now an additional 68 percent in ’24.
Furthermore, REAP is one of dozens of other business, housing,
and utility programs that our agency offers that can address en-
ergy costs and energy transition. Accommodating and adapting to
our increased portfolio, both in number of programs as well as
changes in those program funding levels, has been incredibly dif-
ficult for our small staff.
In closing today, my key points are this, our programs are effec-
tive in driving down costs for small businesses. Your work, Sen-
ator, getting the Inflation Reduction Act passed has been trans-
formational, and the Biden-Harris Administration has mobilized
our agency to act on that transformation.
Our staff work incredibly well, but only as far as the capacity we
have to process applications. And our partners on the ground offer-
ing technical assistance are crucial resources for our small business
owners and farmers.
I want to thank you for the time today and we look forward to
continuing to work with you and your staff for the State of New
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Hampshire.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Waring follows:]
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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much for your testimony. Sam.
STATEMENT OF SAM EVANS-BROWN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
CLEAN ENERGY NEW HAMPSHIRE, CONCORD, NEW HAMP-
SHIRE
Mr. EVANS-BROWN. Thank you, Chairwoman Shaheen, for invit-
ing me. It truly is an honor. I will confess, I don’t think I even real-
ized how much of a big deal this was until I arrived here today.
So I really appreciate everyone for bearing with me as this is cer-
tainly my first time sitting up in a chair like this.
Clean Energy New Hampshire is, as you have just heard, a re-
cipient of the REAP technical assistance grant. If you have not spo-
ken to them already, Gabe and Katherine, Gabe Chelius and Kath-
erine Cusack are there on the right. They are the real experts in
this program, and I encourage anyone who is interested to read the
written testimony that they were extremely helpful in preparing
that has more details in terms of what we have to say about the
programs.
I think I will take a moment here just to talk about what we
think is needed to really move the needle towards a clean energy
future, which is an easy button. I think small businesses, as well
as regular folks, and municipal governments need an easy button
in order to figure out how to pursue these types of projects and one
simply does not exist.
If you have a fossil fuel fired boiler in your building and it fails,
the easy button is you call a contractor and that contractor replaces
a like with like on an emergency basis, and that is overwhelmingly
what happens out in the world.
And if you want to pursue one of the types of projects that we
assist communities and small businesses with, you are in for a
quite a journey. So when I started in 2021, we had Melissa
Elander, who was our first energy circuit writer.
She had been—her position had been created in a partnership
with the New Hampshire Charitable Foundation after an extensive
process where the question was asked, why is it that communities
do not pursue energy efficiency investments if these investments
pay for themselves? And the answer was, it is complicated.
The funding landscape is confusing, and it is not easy to figure
this out. And so, Melissa’s position was created in an attempt to
be the easy button for low income, rural communities in Northern
New Hampshire. I benefited from all of that work.
And when I started at Clean Energy New Hampshire, over-
whelmingly what I heard was we need more people like Melissa out
in communities, and that is what we are endeavoring to do at
Clean Energy New Hampshire.
The Energy Circuit Rider team now has seven employees. We
have four employees who are helping drive municipal projects, and
Gabe and Katherine who are helping with small businesses. So we
are attempting to build that easy button, and we do so in partner-
ship with all of our—all of the other actors in this space.
So great companies like Provision Energy, like the Energy Effi-
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ciency Contractors who are experts in the New Hampshire Saves
programs, like CDFA who know how to work on community facili-
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ties, as well as many lenders and other providers of services in this
space. That said, it is still not easy.
What I have heard in talking to Gabe and Katherine that—was
that the problems can be as prosaic as sitting down next to a small
business owner and walking them through the same.gov website as
they try to get themselves a Federal funding code, which is not a
process that is as easy as you would like it to be, and that by itself
can be a barrier to pursuing a grant that can make or break the
economics of a project that you are hoping to pursue.
And it is not the only hurdle. Each of these programs is subject
to their own somewhat arcane cost-benefits test and understanding
the types of measures that are likely to be successful or to be fund-
ed through the various programs really requires an expert in order
to know in advance if you are going to be successful.
And to drill down on that, I too consider myself an expert in
these programs, but it was not until crafting the written testimony
that I submitted that I really understood at a slightly more granu-
lar level how complicated it really is, and it was really Gabe and
Katherine who have been doing this now for a year with small
businesses who informed me the types of measures that are likely
to be funded by the various funding streams.
So New Hampshire Saves, good for refrigeration and lighting and
motors, not great for weatherization. REAP–TAG, sometimes you
struggle to have an efficiency project get funding through REAP–
TAG because of the way the payback period is calculated in REAP–
TAG.
REAP unfortunately does not take into account the actual rate
structure that small businesses pay where they are subject to a de-
mand charge. So any benefits in reducing a demand charge are not
considered in the payback period calculation. And all of these are
impediments to getting projects done that I think that we need to
think really hard about how we get over them.
That said, these funding sources are crucial. They are absolutely
crucial. And there are many businesses that would not be consid-
ering pursuing any project other than replacing like with like if it
were not for these funding streams.
And so, I encourage the Senate to think really hard about how
to streamline the delivery of these funding streams, but also how
we defend them into—going forward into the future until we find
ourselves in a place where the market has transformed to such a
degree that the easy button is being delivered by private services,
which I think is where we all hope we’ll wind up. With that, I will
cease.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Evans-Brown follows:]
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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Dan.
STATEMENT OF DAN WEEKS, VICE PRESIDENT, BUSINESS DE-
VELOPMENT, REVISION ENERGY, NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Mr. WEEKS. Good morning. Thank you so much, Chairwoman
Shaheen. Dan Weeks with ReVision Energy and it is an honor to
be here. Also my first rodeo alongside Sarah, Sam, and Melissa. I
am one of the co-owners at ReVision Energy, and while I enjoy—
get to enjoy sitting here in a nice air conditioned room, I definitely
want to tip my hat to my co-owners who are out on rooftops today.
It is a perfect fall day, although it I think it will reach up into
the 80s. Not our usual back when I was a kid at least in Sep-
tember, and they are out there in all weather, all days of the year
installing the clean energy future that is core to our mission, which
is to make life better by building our just and equitable electric fu-
ture.
ReVision is honored to work with and the team that I lead in our
commercial business is honored to work with dozens at any given
time of small businesses and independent businesses around New
Hampshire, and we are proud ourselves to be a small, independent,
and employee owned business with offices just up the highway in
Brentwood, as well as in the Upper Valley.
As has been stated already, New Hampshire businesses do face
significant costs, both in terms of direct costs from electricity and
other energy needs, and increasingly as we are coming to realize
the indirect costs of climate damage.
I am glad that Sarah mentioned the floods that have been so se-
vere most recently in the North country, in New Hampshire, where
my family comes from, and driving those streets just this past sum-
mer has been a stark reminder not just of the costs that towns bear
in terms of infrastructure damage as roads and bridges wash out,
but also businesses that are getting flooded and having to deal
with these ever rising energy inputs.
I wanted to keep with the theme that Sam mentioned, and I will
let my more detailed testimony speak for itself, but to draw a cou-
ple of key themes, and in particularly the challenges to implemen-
tation of what are proven commercialized technologies at this point,
particularly when it comes to a category of—and I will focus on
solar technology, although we also do energy storage, and EV
charging, and thermal solutions.
But particularly in the case of solar energy when it comes to
shared community solar projects or off site projects, which frankly
are often the only way that small, very small businesses, as well
as families can benefit from the clean energy transition because
many of them, many of those 130,000 small businesses registered
in the State of New Hampshire, don’t own their own facilities and
don’t have an opportunity to install on-site. But first, a word on
what is available to small businesses today.
Thanks in large part to the Inflation Reduction Act and other
Federal incentives for small businesses that do own their roof and
have a solar suitable facility, because of the 43 percent decline in
the cost of solar technology over the last 10 years, because of the
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continuation of Federal incentives, which were supposed to be just
a 10 percent tax credit here in 2024.
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20
But thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act were returned to their
historic level of 30 percent with the opportunity for bonus tax cred-
its in certain cases, the combination of increasing efficiency, low-
ering cost of the technology, and continued and enhanced Federal
incentives does mean that if a small business in New Hampshire
owns their roof, chances are they can offset most or all of their en-
ergy needs and they can do so at a very reasonable return on in-
vestment, typically about a 10 year payback, sometimes as low as
7 years, with an internal rate of return somewhere north of 10 per-
cent very often, which is better than the stock market most years.
And by doing so, as we already heard from Sarah, they can save
$16,000 a year or more, depending on what their current energy
spend is. It is a tremendous opportunity, and we have been blessed
to work with over 1,000 small businesses and other commercial
customers, along with nearly 20,000 residential customers over the
last 21 years.
So for onsite applications, the technology has proven the permit-
ting and interconnection are generally manageable, and the sav-
ings are very real. However, as noted, most New Hampshire small
businesses just don’t have the opportunity to install on their own
facility, and they look to, and we hear from them very often want-
ing to find some way to participate in the energy transition.
The natural solution, which our company by virtue of operating
in neighboring States as well as New Hampshire, has been able to
put in place over the last 10 plus years is community or shared
solar farms.
And I want to briefly mention three key challenges that I think
the Federal Government can help to overcome, although they are
in particular challenges we face at the local and State level, that
are unfortunately impeding the development of offsite community
solar farms in New Hampshire, even as other States are many
years ahead.
The first set of challenges relates to net metering, which is a
State level policy. But to put it in practical terms, the retail cost
of electricity, if you take the average rate over the last three years,
for small businesses in New Hampshire is about $0.18 per kilowatt
hour. If you are offsetting your power needs on site, you are getting
close to that for retail rate.
However, if you are getting your energy from a shared commu-
nity solar project by virtue of New Hampshire’s net metering stat-
ute, you are getting just 10.4 cents today. Not only is that a little
more than half of the total rate, the retail rate, it is also about half
of the empirical value of solar, as New Hampshire’s Department of
Energy has determined through value of distributed resources
studies that they have completed and is also about half of the rate
in other States where we are seeing community solar take off.
So net metering is a real challenge, and it is further made more
difficult by the fact that we have an arbitrary cap of 1 megawatt
on the size of projects that can serve small businesses or families
or nonprofits in New Hampshire. Economies of scale are terribly
important in these projects.
A second hurdle is around permitting, and I mentioned econo-
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mies of scale because there are fixed costs that any offsite project
must bear. Typically at least $100,000 just in obtaining State per-
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mits. For New Hampshire, the threshold for requiring those per-
mits is about 2 acres. In other States, it is about 20 acres for that
very high level of permitting diligence that is required and that
brings significant costs.
And then finally around interconnection, which I could spend all
day on, but historically, it has taken weeks or months to obtain
interconnection agreements, and those have cost a few thousand
dollars in initial studies.
Today, for especially offsite projects, it is taking multiple years,
and the cost of studies alone are generally $25,000 to $50,000, with
interconnection upgrades anywhere from $100,000 to $1 million.
The CHAIRMAN. Dan, just explain very briefly what interconnec-
tion—what you are talking about when you say interconnection——
Mr. WEEKS. Yes. Thank you, Senator.
The CHAIRMAN [continuing]. For those people who might not
know.
Mr. WEEKS. So these projects are by default grid tied, meaning
that they are delivering their electrons directly to the utility grid.
And the utilities, whose primary and very important job is to
maintain a reliable, resilient grid are often using that opportunity,
you might say, to contribute to other beneficial upgrades.
So in New Hampshire, where we don’t have any State inter-
connection rules, they can require a number of upgrades which are
generally not required for comparable projects in other States. Re-
closers, other protective devices, which is what brings the cost to
$500,000, or $1 million, or more. So those are three challenges.
And just to wrap up, as I noted, in spite of these challenges, this
is an exciting time in the renewable energy industry in New Hamp-
shire. About $180 million was invested in just solar in New Hamp-
shire last year. Our total installed capacity, about 280 megawatts.
Sam can correct me there.
Although that is—unfortunately pales in comparison to what we
see South of the border at over 5,000 megawatts of deployed solar
in more than 1,100 in Maine. So there is a lot of room to grow. And
the final note, I would say is while we have over 1,000 people
working in the solar industry today in New Hampshire, about 100
at ReVision, the potential to grow that is enormous.
And one way in which ReVision has been focused on the work-
force challenge is about seven years ago, we established the first
in-house electrical apprenticeship program at a U.S. solar company.
So far, we have graduated—in a couple of weeks we will grad-
uate I think our 60th or maybe 65th electricians here in New
Hampshire, which we are very proud of. And it is a program that
we are desperate to expand with support from Department of
Labor and others because we believe electricians will save the
world.
So, I will conclude in again tipping my hat to my colleagues who
are out on rooftops today getting the job done. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Weeks follows:]
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32
The CHAIRMAN. Thanks very much, Dan. Melissa.
STATEMENT OF MELISSA FLORIO, PRESIDENT, AMBIX
MANUFACTURING FREEDOM, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Ms. FLORIO. Hello, everyone. Okay. So, first of all, thank you,
Madam Chairman, and all the members of the committee for hold-
ing this hearing and allow me the opportunity to share with you
our journey to sustainability with regards to our reliance on the
electric grid.
I will try my best to explain plastics injection molding, now that
you have thrown that on me and please bear with me. I have spent
the last few days in D.C. As Senator Shaheen said, one of my roles
is as—Fairness Regulatory Board, and we just had our annual
meeting. It was only two days, but I felt like two weeks.
We had so much squished into those two days. So Ambix Manu-
facturing, we are one of the 33 million small businesses here in the
United States, and we were founded in 2008 up in the White
Mountains of New Hampshire. And we provide plastics engineering
and custom contract and plastics injection molding.
So if you imagine the olden days when you would play with your
Play-Doh and you would have your Play-Doh in your whatever it
might be, in your device and you would squeeze it and out would
come your shape, that is kind of in a nutshell what we do. We
would close loop injection molders that are all electric machines,
and we heat up our resin sometimes to 500 °F with a lot of auxil-
iaries.
We color our resins on site and do all fancy things with them.
They get into a barrel through a feeder. They get—that feeder
screw barrel pushes them into our injection mold. The water cools
the mold, opens the mold, pops out the part. So that is essentially
what injection molding is for plastics and there is all different
types. There is extrusions. There is ceramic. But we do plastic in-
jection molding.
So we are an ISO 9000 certified company. We have responsibility
to stakeholders as ISO 9000 certified company. We have to consider
risks to Federal, State, local governments, residents of our town,
our customers, our employees, and ensure that we are—always are
providing, you know, a quality part and continuing operations. So
for every potential new job at Ambix, we go through an assessment
process.
Do we have the capabilities to do the job or are they looking for
extrusion? Are they looking for injection molding? Do we have the
capacity? Can we provide a quality product? And most importantly,
can we compete on cost? It is always costs. We know the Ambix
team can provide a high quality product.
Our Ambix team has been with us for years, some decades. That
is not our problem. It is the wildcard is always cost. And in estab-
lishing Ambix, we were able to rely upon years of manufacturing
and engineering experience consulting around the globe to take
learned best practices and build our manufacturing floor to the
most efficient leading manufacturer that we could be, minimizing
waste.
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However, you know, we can’t eliminate all waste, and there are
some costs, but we were able to get ourselves at a level where we
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33
could compete with domestic manufacturers. But as you know,
Ambix and other small businesses aren’t competing just with do-
mestic manufacturers. We are competing on an international level
with manufacturers who are in countries that are subsidized by
their home country that allows them to undercut us on our price
points.
So over the years, we have picked off the low lying fruit, as any-
one would. We have brought in, you know—so let me just kind of
back up. So there are three main issues that we have is labor, raw
resin, and of course electricity because we run all electric ma-
chines. And so in doing so, we added automation and reduced that
labor cost, right.
As far as our resin cost prices, we were able to reduce only to
a certain extent because we aren’t that large domestic manufactur-
ers, so we don’t have railcars of resin coming into our backyard and
going into silos. So there is not so much room on the cost of resin
that we have wiggle room, but there is wiggle room with electricity.
So we did work with local, State, Federal programs, brought peo-
ple in, ask for recommendations on what we could do to improve
our facilities, and we implemented all of those, whether it be en-
ergy efficient lighting or upgrading our HVAC and machinery aux-
iliaries. So in doing so, however, we kept coming against the fact
that no matter what we did, that electricity was always going to
be a high aspect to our production costs that we provide on a piece
part price.
So we went and we actually researched numerous times with Re-
Vision Energy and looked at the possibility of what can we do to
offset those costs, and it was just never affordable for us. It just
was never going to be feasible. We don’t sit on this huge pile of
cash. You know, I would love to—I would love to sit on a huge pile
of cash. We don’t.
And when we do have any type of wiggle room, we usually invest
in our buildings, our machines, and our employees. So every time
we would do the analysis, we just would never make that break-
even point, if we had the cash flow, in order to make it happen.
In 2022, around August, we—that all changed when our elec-
tricity provider notified us that our electric rates were going to be
increasing 52 percent. And like I said, so our three components,
that third prong of electricity that was just going to cripple us. We
couldn’t pass those costs on to our customer. And so, we were really
facing, how do we do this? How do we—you know, we are going to
go out of business.
And that wasn’t an option for us because it wasn’t just our fami-
lies that we, you know, are worried about at night. I stay up at
night worrying about my employees’ families and their lives. So I
reached out to our local economic council, asked them what we
could do, and they got us in touch with USDA and Tracy.
And we learned through Tracy for about, I don’t even know how
many hours he was on the phone with us, he was wonderful, about
the REAP grant and the funding that was possible for us. And so,
with that, we began the work. We applied for the grant. And the
old adage that it takes a village is really true.
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As a small business, all the people in this room right now are
here to support us and it is hard as a small business to ask for that
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34
help. You just kind of think, I am going to put my head down and
I am going to make it work and it is going to happen.
But when you are going up against a 52 percent increase in elec-
tricity, that wasn’t a reality that we could face alone. So the Gov-
ernment programs and their support were integral to our success.
So many people held our hands through the process, from the
USDA to the CDFA, to our Economic Council. And as a result, in
December 2022 we received the REAP grant and we immediately
contacted ReVision Energy and said, let’s go and began the process
of constructing our system, which we do own our own building, so.
The system consists currently, they just finished this past June,
of 142 solar panels. We produce up to 100 kilowatts of power. It
just went live this summer and one of our engineers is like totally
geeking out on it. He has got the app, and he runs around showing
how many machines do we have running at this moment, how
much power are we making.
And on days like, for example, the weekend, we don’t run unless
it is—unless there has been a climate change impact and we need
to supply for the electric grid, ironically, then we are able to push
energy back into our grid.
So honestly, it is a good feeling being sustainable at this point.
We all know there are climate change incidents happening con-
stantly, even in the White Mountains, and to be able to be sustain-
able and be able—a steward to our environment for the future gen-
erations.
The system allows us to minimize climate change and the risks
on our operations from the electric grid, and most importantly, al-
lows us to remain competitive and continue our operations and pro-
vide a domestic choice to businesses still—by still being a viable in-
jection molder.
And when the envelope shows up, it is a nice feeling because one
just showed up last week and, you know, when we done the num-
bers, it would probably come up to a 42 percent increase of cost of
electricity, and we can rest assured that thanks to the REAP grant
and those solar panels on our roof, that that is not going to impact
our ability to provide that high quality, low cost product.
So in closing, I would just like to thank you again for holding
this hearing today, for listening to Ambix’s journey to achieving re-
newable energy at our property in Albany, New Hampshire.
And it is just—Congress supporting us with these lifesaving pro-
grams. It is really—it has been—we wouldn’t be sitting here today
as Ambix Manufacturing without them. I mean, we save approxi-
mately $75,000 a year for electricity.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Florio follows.]
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37
The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you very much, Melissa. And thank
you to all of our panelists for your testimony. I know that every-
body in the audience would really like to ask them a lot of ques-
tions, but sadly, under our hearing format, you are not allowed to
do that. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRMAN. I am the only one who gets to ask questions. We
should have had people running around the audience asking you to
write down any questions so I could do that. But we do have a
number of questions. And Melissa, I want to start with you because
how much—are you now producing all of the energy that it takes
to run your operation?
Ms. FLORIO. It is a depends answer. So if we are running all our
machines and auxiliaries, we can—we are about 65 percent that we
are able to just run on the renewable energies. If we are only run-
ning, you know, half of them, we are—all of this is under that um-
brella.
And like I said, so one of our engineers does run around and he
is like, it is a little cloudy out today, you know. But for the most
part, it is seeming to be, like I said, you know, because we have
only been live for about a month since that resource finally
changed over the meter. But what we can tell, we are—it is going
to be very beneficial to us to reduce our costs.
The CHAIRMAN. That is great. So as a company that is actually
not in the energy business, what would you say to other small busi-
nesses who are looking at their energy costs, who may not know
a lot about how to save money on energy, and what do you think
is the impediment and how would you suggest we encourage them
to look at finding some ways to lower their costs?
Ms. FLORIO. You know, honestly, it is getting them into events
such as this, other small businesses, where the resources are
around the room to explain what is available. You know, that is
how we learned years ago even about, you know, the energy effi-
cient analysis that that can be done on your plant.
You know, so we, you guys—oh gosh, you age yourself, but
maybe 12 years ago we had installed, you know, motion detector
lights. So, you know, all that kind of stuff, those low lying fruits
like I had said. So, you know, you could start there on those low
things where you can implement them.
But to look at something big, and if they don’t have their own
roofs, that is a problem. Or, you know, if they are leasing and
someone will—is willing to do that. You know, knowing that—Re-
Vision Energy, they are clean energy, the USDA is there, and they
will take the time to explain the programs to you.
It is just getting over the hurdle of the small business owner ask-
ing for help and knowing that, well then—like I was shocked, like
there is help out there when we made that call, and it was a relief.
It was a relief.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Great. Thank you. So, Sam, can you follow
up on that and talk about how you start helping a business get
started in the process. So you hear from Ambix. What do you do
to start the process?
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Mr. EVANS-BROWN. Yes. So because I am not the person who di-
rectly provides that assistance, I will encourage anyone who is curi-
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38
ous to go talk to Gabe and Katherine because they can get you on
the journey.
But the long and short of it is we put you through an intake,
that we have an intake form on our website that asks some very
basic questions. And then, the first step is really to start gathering
together your energy bills.
Because larger businesses—and I am sure Ambix is a small busi-
ness, but we are really talking about businesses that are even
smaller, that are generally speaking, you know, often sole opera-
tors or just have a few staff. Those are the folks that often wind
up in our circle.
So it is—so it really is, we are just talking about getting a year’s
worth of your electric bills together so we can get a sense of how
much can be saved and that is where the journey really starts. De-
pending on the type of project that they are pursuing, often the
next step is to get an energy audit done and there are—CDFA does
have funding that can cover 75 percent of that cost.
And so, connecting them with those programs and sort of holding
their hand to get that accomplished. Then you get your scope of
work that says here is, you know, here is your target list of the
lowest hanging fruit and let’s go find, you know, match make with
the various funding streams that are available and determine the
best path forward for you.
And that actually is, I think, the thing that we are—that we
pride ourselves at Clean Energy New Hampshire in being able to
do is we try to be funding stream agnostic. Obviously we are the
technical assistance grant recipients at Clean Energy New Hamp-
shire, and so any time that we are spending helping a business
with REAP is as time well spent for us.
But that said, if REAP is not going to be a good fit for the project
that the business is looking for, we try to hand them off to whoever
the right service provider is, and then if needed, give a little pokes
and kicks along the way to make sure that that project keeps on
the track. So it is a lot of one on one and it is a lot of handholding.
The CHAIRMAN. And Dan, just to follow up as somebody who is
actually there, comes in probably after Sam and Clean Energy have
done that evaluation of what can be done. How do you help those
small businesses?
Mr. WEEKS. Thank you, Senator. There are a lot of small busi-
nesses out there, as we have heard. And so very often we will be
the first call that a business makes. And we have learned over the
years that to the extent we can replicate some of the great tech-
nical assistance that organizations like Clean Energy New Hamp-
shire and the agencies provide, that helps our customers, it helps
us make projects happen.
So at this point, I am leading our commercial business unit. I get
to work with a team of now very experienced commercial designers,
consultants who are well versed in the different technologies. Obvi-
ously I have focused on solar, but there is energy storage and EV
charging and thermal solutions for heating and cooling.
So that consultant will do that site visit, often just taking that
initial query. We will walk through the facility. We will inspect the
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roof. We will check the structural, check the roof age, or maybe
there is adjacent land.
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We will get into the electric panel, determine the capacity. We
will review the electric bills, and we will be able to provide then
a roadmap of options, solar being the most common, but oftentimes
businesses are looking for a broader electrification set of solutions
and then proceed step by step.
We are always thrilled when we can work with Clean Energy
New Hampshire and the USDA. Megan on my team I know is in
very common touch with your office there at USDA. And so, we
have also been honored to complete REAP applications for dozens
of projects, maybe up to 100 at this point over the years.
But it is—as Sam said, it is sitting down, understanding their
needs, trying to—because they are busy running the business. They
are expert in that. If we can lessen the load a bit and be expert
in the energy part of their challenge, that makes their life easier,
and it helps us because we are a construction company at the end
of the day, actually build projects.
The CHAIRMAN. So is the biggest impediment knowing what is
out there, having the capital to invest to go forward, the paper-
work? What—each of you, what do you think is the biggest chal-
lenge and how could we move the ball?
Ms. FLORIO. All of the above. It would be knowing it was out
there. And then once we did—I mean, we are a small business. We
do have our accountants that we have to provide all that informa-
tion, so we had it all in hand, but we didn’t know what was needed
until we did speak to USDA and Tracy.
And then with ReVision Energy, they walked us through every-
thing. You know, they handheld us through the whole process of,
give us your electric bills. And, you know, and so we would pdf
them off to them. Give us your—okay, here you go.
Give us your—and so, if we didn’t have that, we would have gave
up because there would have been a machine down, there would
have been something, and we just would have—we would have—
we just would have gave up.
You know, just because the paperwork is definitely an impedi-
ment. Like understanding the process is definitely an impediment.
And I consider myself an intelligent person but—I have some com-
mon sense to figure things out, but yeah, I would definitely say.
The CHAIRMAN. So Sarah, what can we do to make that easier?
Ms. WARING. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I would add that not only
is the capacity of the small business—often it is not their expertise
to walk through this sector. This is an entire sector, right, with
technologies that are underused or underutilized, and we have ex-
perts in the sector in an industry that, as Dan has said, is trying
to build its own workforce, right.
And is trying to build behind folks like them the workforce that
will come in and be able to do this on behalf of all of us so that
it is not just, as Sam sometimes says, it is not just affordable, it
is automatic, right.
So capacity for small businesses is one challenge. Capacity with-
in an agency is another challenge. I want to thank you and the del-
egation from Vermont and New Hampshire for recognizing that
staffing at Federal agencies is one of those issues that helps us to
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loosen the pipeline and get more projects over those final hurdles
of paperwork and environmental processing and so on.
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But I also want to share that time is sometimes an issue. We
have always had a delay between an application and the start of
construction, and that time period, particularly as you have heard
the number, the raw numbers of increases of applications, that
time delay sometimes puts businesses out an entire season or a
half a year from where they expected to start recouping those en-
ergy costs and savings.
There are a few other challenges that I think are important to
mention for the particular program that we run, and I am really
pleased that our other Federal agencies are here today and can
speak to businesses about their programs.
Our Rural Energy for America Program does not serve nonprofits
because it is a business, for profit business specific program. Simi-
larly, leasehold improvements, as Dan mentioned. When a small
business does not own its own asset that we can build on, we have
to really just think about their equipment that we can help with,
right.
We have to really narrow that window for how we can support
those small businesses that are leasing. And then the other chal-
lenge with many Federal programs is that for small businesses
that do not have cash flow, these are reimbursement based grants.
So the work needs to be done upfront, and the Federal cash
comes in later. And that is because we are stewarding taxpayer
dollars to make sure that the project is completed as planned and
that all of the metrics are met. That being said, it is often difficult
for our smallest businesses to front the cash, and that’s a chal-
lenge.
The CHAIRMAN. And—do you want to add to that, Dan?
Mr. WEEKS. Just briefly, thank you. I did want to underscore the
financing side of this. We are very concerned that REAP grants are
now timed out where in the last couple of weeks of applications
that I know your team will be very busily processing.
But that has been a game changer for especially small farms and
really small rural businesses that while the tax credit is great, you
can carry it back three years thanks to IRA and forward up to 20,
a lot of businesses just don’t have the profitability and therefore
the tax liability to be able to take the tax credit or only very slowly
over time and value of money, that is obviously diluted, therefore.
So having reaped grants has truly been a game changer, espe-
cially at that elevated 50 percent level. And we very much hope
there is a way to bring—to continue that program after September.
We are also eagerly awaiting the results of debt vehicles, reduced
interest rates, etcetera under the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund.
Right now, the cost of capital, Wall Street—prime rate is 7.5 per-
cent. That is difficult to make projects——
The CHAIRMAN. We are waiting for that, too. [Laughter.]
Mr. WEEKS. So hopefully those interest rates are also coming
down as I think they are. But with these last couple of years, these
historically high rates, it has been difficult to finance, and getting
access to cheaper capital can make all the difference.
The CHAIRMAN. So I know that the SBA just announced a pro-
gram to try and focus more on financing for businesses that are in-
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terested in doing energy savings or green energy projects. Has
that—have you talked to anybody who is aware that that has hap-
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41
pened? And is there more that needs to be done to let people know
about that initiative? Yeah, Sam.
Mr. EVANS-BROWN. Well, I mean, I would simply ask, you know,
if you are at the owner of an ice cream shop in Bethlehem, you
know, how do you learn about a notice of Federal funding oppor-
tunity, right.
So it is—I think the answer to that is yes. And really, it comes
down to, in my opinion, just needing more boots on the ground that
are aware of and understand the funding landscape and that
doesn’t just have to be, you know, technical assistance providing
nonprofits like mine. I think what you have heard is that—and
really how I envision that this will all work in the future is that
it will actually be the businesses like ReVision and, you know, con-
struction companies that understand this landscape and are doing
that handholding.
So I think ReVision really is a model for how this—how the en-
ergy transition is going to happen. That they will become the easy
button for their clients. But really what that requires, it requires
all the service providers to want to get out of bed and do things
differently than they were doing the day before and really lean into
these new technologies.
The CHAIRMAN. And what is your experience in the private sector
in terms of financing? Have you—I know that it has been chal-
lenging to get community banks and other private sector financing
to take a look at the benefits that may come with energy savings
projects. I don’t know, Sarah, you want to respond to that?
Ms. WARING. Yes. Senator, thank you for that question. I men-
tioned in my testimony that there are a number of other programs
that Rural Development in particular has that can provide a part
of that capital stack.
One of the ones that I am most excited about is one that I hope
that very soon New Hampshire will have a pot of capital to be able
to play with. It is called the Rural Energy Savings Program.
The Rural Energy Savings Program is under our Rural Utilities
Service, and it is a re-lending program where we lend capital to a
utility, a green bank, or an eligible applicant through our de-lend-
ing programs, and they then re-lend that capital into the commu-
nity at 5 percent or below.
So always below market rate. It could be matched then with our
REAP grants. So what could happen is a small business could get
some of that low interest capital to support those startup costs and
those initial costs—could get the grant reimbursement for 50 per-
cent of their project. That capital investment and that injection
into our lending community is something that can then revolve and
revolve and revolve and stay here.
And so, what I am really excited about is that there are other
utility programs, there are other lending programs that allow the
Federal money not just to be invested once, but to be invested
again and again through a lender intermediary.
We are hopeful that we will be able to see some of that coming
to New Hampshire in the coming months. And I am really proud
of the fact that in addition to the REAP program, the RESP pro-
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gram and some of the others, we were able to just announce
around $7 billion in two of the electric programs nationwide.
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42
And those are the largest investment in electrification since
President Roosevelt, right—in rural electrification. So the agency is
really trying to move that Inflation Reduction Act funding on the
front end of the time period that we have as much as possible.
The CHAIRMAN. That is great. Let me just—I know Dan wants
to weigh in here, but let me also point out that SBDC, in addition
to the Community Development Finance Authority, are here. I
don’t know if—I thought somebody from SBA was—is here too. Yes,
thank you. I was looking right at you.
So they also can talk about some of these new financing mecha-
nisms that SBA is looking at to try and help small businesses. Dan,
you wanted to weigh in.
Mr. WEEKS. Thank you, Senator. Just one final comment on the
financing side. These federal, lower cost financing options can be
game changing, and they can be very difficult to navigate.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr. WEEKS. And we have—unfortunately, there is sometimes a
bit of a collective groan that goes across our team when we have
an opportunity to help a client obtain Federal funds. The compli-
ance requirements, especially around procurement—which is get-
ting better. Starting in early 2025, we will be meeting domestic
content requirements for many if not all of our solar projects,
which unlocks an additional 10 percent tax credit, which is terrific.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Explain that so that everybody knows.
Mr. WEEKS. Yes. Under the Inflation Reduction Act, it returned
the standard ITC investment tax credit to 30 percent instead of 10
percent or 0 for residential, and it also created bonus tax credit op-
portunities, a 10 percent additional tax credit if domestic content
starts at 45 percent.
The CHAIRMAN. And domestic content means?
Mr. WEEKS. Sorry, domestically manufactured. All of the manu-
factured goods, the solar panels, inverters, etcetera, need to be do-
mestically manufactured. The full supply chain is coming onshore,
which is tremendous, and all of the raw materials, the steel for
racking, etcetera, need to be 100 percent domestic.
So we will start meeting that next year and that will ease some
of the challenges. But I am thinking of a project down in Keene.
We have been waiting a year to get a waiver to unlock Federal
funds that are crucial to allow that project to go forward and we
just can’t get the status of that waiver.
The CHAIRMAN. And you need the waiver because there is not
enough domestic content?
Mr. WEEKS. Because today’s components aren’t quite at——
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr. WEEKS. And there are at least three different domestic pro-
curement thresholds. This is the Buy America Act.
The CHAIRMAN. Right. Right.
Mr. WEEKS. Buy America, Build America, BABA. So navigating
some of this has been a real pain point and it has unfortunately
discouraged some projects from going forward. I think it will get
better, but I would be remiss if I didn’t say from an implementa-
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tion standpoint, any time we can simplify, standardize, it will re-
sult in projects getting built.
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43
The CHAIRMAN. Yes. No, I appreciate that and the challenge. I
can remember the debate that we had over the whole domestic con-
tent, the Buy America provisions, and everybody wants those jobs
here in the United States.
But sometimes that creates other impediments that business has
to deal with. And so, the waiver provision was designed to try and
help address that. But as you point, it doesn’t always work, so.
Mr. WEEKS. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN. Let me, I want to go back to the Circuit Rider
issue, Sam, that you talked about, because as I think you are
aware, one of the things we tried to do was to make the Circuit
Riders a national initiative, because it has been so successful in
New Hampshire, and it provides such assistance.
And it is something we have heard as we have traveled around
the State from small businesses and from communities, actually.
And so, we had language that we had hoped to get into the farm
bill, which has been stalled in Congress, but our language didn’t
actually get in. But talk a little bit about what you think the abil-
ity to have that be more widespread would do for businesses and
for communities across the country.
Mr. EVANS-BROWN. Yes. I love getting to talk about the Circuit
Rider program, so happy to happy to take some time to do so.
We at Clean Energy New Hampshire have focused on municipal
projects because we think that community projects have the poten-
tial to be transformative beyond just the energy savings that ac-
crue to the taxpayers in that community, but also because they are
so high profile.
And generally speaking, so first of all, not only when you put
solar on the roof of a library or weatherize a fire department, not
only is there is that—a bigger facility that likely is going to get
more bang for the buck than going after, you know, a residential
project.
But it is a public investment that in New Hampshire in par-
ticular you then go to town meeting and there is a warrant article
that is going to have a fiscal note and every voter in that town is
going to be confronted with the beneficial economics of the clean
energy transition when they make that vote.
And what we have seen is that these projects pass, typically pass
by overwhelming margins in their community. And then you have
got solar on the roof of your town hall and there is very—there is
now a robust academic literature on how the seeing that in your
community every time you drive by has the effect of those individ-
uals in the community then wanting to consider that—making that
choice for their own residence.
So, we think that municipal projects are transformative, which
is why we have focused on the municipal space to begin. But, you
know, going back to my initial comment, what I have experienced
in my own personal life is that there is—this is needed at abso-
lutely every level.
And I am someone who I have spent my entire adult life study-
ing these issues and wanting to pursue sustainability in my own
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life. And I will tell you that even as someone who is, you know, cer-
tifiably obsessed with this stuff, it is not easy to do.
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44
I remember getting in an argument with an electrician who was
telling me I was installing the wrong plug standard for my electric
car charger and having to Google, sitting there in the garage to
show him that, yes, I want an Ima 1450, not the 630 as—you
know, as I ordered.
So, and just imagine if you are a regular person, an electrician
tells you are installing the wrong plug, they are just going to say,
okay. So, I think the, the, the world I am hoping we get to is one
where you don’t have to have that argument because we truly are
driving towards a transformed market where people don’t have to
figure this out. We can figure it out for them.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes. And I know that we are getting close to the
deadline that we gave to people for when we would stop the official
testifying, testimony, and open to the resource fair. But I wanted
to go back, Dan, to your testimony because you talked about three
key challenges.
Net metering, which has been a challenge since back when I was
in the State Senate, which has been in the 90s, so a long time ago.
This is a challenge that the Legislature and I, and I know we have
some Legislators in the room, so thank you for joining us. But this
is a challenge that the Legislature has been dealing with session
after session.
And I appreciate, I think we have representation from some of
the utilities in New Hampshire here, some of whom have been
more supportive of net metering, expanding net metering than oth-
ers.
But I just wanted to make sure that folks understand that this
is an issue that as we look at how we expand the localization of
energy, it is going to be more and more important. And to the ex-
tent that we haven’t addressed it in ways that encourage our uses
of a variety of energy sources, it gives us a disadvantage.
And several of you have talked about how we compare to some
of the other New England States on some of these issues. And so,
I think it is important to point out that some of these challenges,
we have got to—all of these challenges we have to work on to-
gether, but that is one that is really a threshold issue as we think
about how to expand the ability of small business to increase their
use of energy saving technologies. So, I don’t know if you want to
add to that.
Mr. WEEKS. Thank you so much for lifting that up, Senator. I
joined the ConVal solar car team in the 90s. It has been a passion
of mine for a while as well. And as I track New Hampshire’s
progress, I have to say that our net metering policy is the single
biggest factor that explains why in New Hampshire today, a little
over 1 percent of our electricity comes from the sun.
South of the border, it is 24 percent. Maine used to be the lag-
gard at half of 1 percent five years ago. They are now at 11 per-
cent. It is State policy that are determining that and that are caus-
ing us to unfortunately forego the thousands of good paying jobs,
the billions of dollars in private investment supported by Federal
tax credits that New Hampshire can realize if we can get this
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right, as well as some of the related challenges around, you know,
permitting and interconnection.
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45
Just I think it was on Tuesday this week got the frustrating
news that one of our projects that is actually going to support, in-
tended to support low income communities not too far from here
was blocked on the permitting front because there were some local
objections to how it looked.
And we are increasingly seeing that as solar farm is treated as
stringently, sometimes even more than a shopping mall in terms
of deemed 100 percent impervious surface, required to go through
a level of local and State and sometimes Federal permitting review
that just arguably isn’t appropriate to that type, mindful of the ac-
tual environmental impact and benefits.
So we are still at the very beginning of the energy transition in
New Hampshire, and working is a company that spans other
States, it is painfully apparent just how much of our own invest-
ment in new jobs are going across State lines. I really want to build
our team here more and more.
So, the final comment I would make is I do think while net me-
tering is a State policy issue, I do think there is a significant posi-
tive role the Federal Government could play.
The CHAIRMAN. Good. Talk about that a little more. [Laughter.]
Mr. WEEKS. Thank you. We are already seeing billions of dollars
on the related issue of interconnection flow into making substation
upgrades, it is happening in Massachusetts and other States, that
will enable that State to go from 24 percent to its eventual goals
of 100 percent, of which a significant part will be solar. Not all, but
a significant part.
Right now in New Hampshire, as I mentioned briefly, projects
can wait multiple years to commence studies, which then cost
$50,000 to $75,000 just to know if it will cost you a quarter of a
million, or a million or more dollars to interconnect.
The Federal Government can significantly reduce those costs to
help transition our grid from a 20th, even 19th century electric
grid, to a 21st century grid that is designed and capable of inte-
grating these distributed resources. That would be a game changer.
And likewise, I think perhaps, you know, incentivizing condi-
tioning Federal funds on State streamlining permitting processes
and perhaps even interconnection procedures. We see other places
where the cost of solar is a bulk a watt.
Australia is a great example. In the U.S., it is three bucks a
watt. It is small scale and most of that is soft costs. We have got
a lot of room to improve there.
The CHAIRMAN. We do. Clearly, as you all point out, we have a
lot to do in order to take advantage of the opportunities that exist,
and from paperwork to policies, and making sure that people un-
derstand what is out there to help them.
But I very much appreciate your willingness to be here today,
your contribution to this conversation, and it will go on because
there is clearly a lot that we have to do. And I want to officially
point out that the record will remain open for two weeks for addi-
tional questions and statements from the committee.
And I want to—I guess I have to—Sean, I need to close this out,
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do I, before we do the resource fair? Okay. So thank you all very
much for joining us. I will now officially declare this hearing closed.
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46
So but before you go, one of the exciting things about this morn-
ing is that we have so many staff from so many agencies, both fed-
eral, State, and nonprofit who are here to be able to provide some
assistance. And we did a similar kind of hearing early—back in the
spring on trade, and we had a resource fair at the end of that.
And one of the things that struck me the most, I wasn’t able to
stay for the resource discussion, but was how much of it was people
in the different organizations talking to each other. Because it is
not something that you all get to do on a regular basis sometimes.
And so, I think that is a real benefit, to have everybody in the
same room to know who the players are, and to be able to access
the information from them.
So let me really share with all of you how much I appreciate
your taking time this morning to be here. The—it is one of the ad-
vantages that we have in New Hampshire, that we do have the
ability to work closely together. And let me just recognize a number
of the organizations who are here. We have, along with Sarah, we
have USDA’s Rural Development staff. The EPA is here to talk
about tools like Energy Star for small businesses.
Clean Energy New Hampshire with Sam is here. We have the
Small Business Administration and the SBDCs who are here. They
assist not just on energy issues, but a whole range of small busi-
ness issues. We have the Department of Energy’s Onsite Energy
Technical Assistance Partnership here.
And the IRS is here, which as I said to them when I came in,
I really appreciate your being here because it is one of the top con-
stituent concerns, calls we get in our office.
We have the Community Development Finance Authority here,
as we talked about earlier. And I think you just—you told me we
have two other people who signed in at the last minute. Yes, DES
and New Hampshire Saves.
So, thank you so much to all of our resource partners for being
here today, for sharing with the people in the audience. And any-
thing that we can do to be helpful in getting the word out, I hope
you will let us know. And as I introduced all of my staff who are
in the room, let them know we will do everything we can to get the
word out.
So, again, thank you all so much for being here.
[Applause.]
[Whereupon, at 11:54 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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