Skill, Upskill, and Reskill: Analyzing New Investments in Workforce Development (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, March 31, 2022)
Summary
The printed record of a hearing, Skill, Upskill, and Reskill: Analyzing New Investments in Workforce Development, held March 31, 2022 by the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development of the House Committee on Small Business, Small Business Committee Document Number 117–049. Hon. Jason Crow and Hon. Young Kim gave opening statements. Four witnesses testified: Gerald Lee Arnold, Business Manager of Denver Pipefitters Local #208, for the Denver Pipefitters Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee; Dr. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, President of the Community College of Aurora, CO; Joseph W. Kane, Fellow at The Brookings Institution; and Diane Benck of West Side Tractor Sales Co., Lisle, IL, for the Associated Equipment Distributors. The appendix carries their prepared statements and answers for the record from Mathematica Policy Research.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Skill, Upskill, and Reskill: Analyzing New Investments in Workforce Development (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, March 31, 2022).”
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SKILL, UPSKILL, AND RESKILL: ANALYZING NEW
INVESTMENTS IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION,
ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE
DEVELOPMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
HEARING HELD
MARCH 31, 2022
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–049
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
46–948 WASHINGTON : 2022
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
TROY CARTER, Louisiana
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Jason Crow ...................................................................................................... 1
Hon. Young Kim ...................................................................................................... 2
WITNESSES
Mr. Gerald Lee Arnold, Business Manager & Financial Secretary Treasurer,
Denver Pipefitters Local #208, Denver, CO, testifying on behalf of the
Denver Pipefitters Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee ......................... 5
Dr. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, Ed.D., President, Community College of Aurora,
Aurora, CO ............................................................................................................ 7
Mr. Joseph W. Kane, Fellow, The Brookings Institution, Washington, DC ....... 9
Ms. Diane Benck, General Operations Manager and Owner, West Side Trac-
tor Sales Co., Lisle, IL, testifying on behalf of the Associated Equipment
Distributors ........................................................................................................... 11
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mr. Gerald Lee Arnold, Business Manager & Financial Secretary Treas-
urer, Denver Pipefitters Local #208, Denver, CO, testifying on behalf
of the Denver Pipefitters Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee ....... 29
Dr. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, Ed.D., President, Community College of Au-
rora, Aurora, CO ........................................................................................... 33
Mr. Joseph W. Kane, Fellow, The Brookings Institution, Washington,
DC .................................................................................................................. 38
Ms. Diane Benck, General Operations Manager and Owner, West Side
Tractor Sales Co., Lisle, IL, testifying on behalf of the Associated
Equipment Distributors ................................................................................ 45
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
Mathematica Policy Research .......................................................................... 48
Additional Material for the Record:
None.
(III)
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SKILL, UPSKILL, AND RESKILL: ANALYZING
NEW INVESTMENTS IN WORKFORCE
DEVELOPMENT
THURSDAY, MARCH 31, 2022
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION, ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:04 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jason Crow [chairman
of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Crow, Davids, Houlahan, Phillips,
Young Kim, Williams, Tenney, and Garbarino.
Chairman CROW. Good morning. I call this hearing to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
any time.
I would like to begin by noting some important requirements.
Standing House and Committee rules and practice will continue to
apply during hybrid proceedings. All Members are reminded that
they are expected to adhere to these rules, including decorum.
House regulations require Members to be visible through a video
connection throughout the proceeding, so please keep your cameras
on. Also, please remember to remain muted until you are recog-
nized to minimize background noise.
In the event a Member encounters technical issues that prevent
them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
next available Member of the same party and I will recognize that
Member at the next appropriate time slot provided they have re-
turned to the proceeding.
The onset of the COVID-19 pandemic created one of the most sig-
nificant upheavals in the history of the American labor force. Be-
tween February and April of 2020, the U.S. economy shut 22 mil-
lion jobs and the unemployment rate skyrocketed from 3.5 percent
to 14.8 percent. Congress stepped in to pass the CARES Act,
stopped the economy’s freefall and provided support throughout the
pandemic. This quick action, combined with the American Rescue
Plan, paved the way for one of the fastest recoveries from a reces-
sion in our nation’s history.
In 2021, the U.S. economy added 6.6 million jobs, the most on
record. Considering the deep wounds of the pandemic, this is a
monumental achievement. While we have recovered most of the
jobs lost during the pandemic, our country is in the middle of an
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ongoing labor shortage. This shortage is complex in its origin and
we cannot attribute it to any one factor. The pandemic upended life
as we know it. It slowed legal immigration, caused a wave of early
retirements, and forced many to exit the job market out of concerns
for their health or family obligations. All of these factors have con-
tributed to the shortage we are seeing today.
The labor shortage impacts all businesses, but it particularly
concerns our nation’s entrepreneurs. But there is more to this than
appear lack of workers. For many small firms, a general lack of ap-
plicants is not the problem. Instead, they are not finding qualified
candidates, workers with the proper skills to do the job and do it
well.
Guaranteeing an adequate number of skilled workers in the
labor force could be the first step to smoothing out this rough labor
market. Fortunately, we have many established tools at our dis-
posal to accomplish this goal. For example, initiatives like work-
force boards, apprenticeships, community college, and career and
technical education can help us upskill the American labor force.
But as it stands, these initiatives are not getting the funding
they need. Over the past decade alone, the workforce system has
seen a nearly 20 percent decline in federal funding when adjusted
for inflation. I think we are seeing the impacts of this underinvest-
ment in today’s economy.
Fortunately, the Biden administration has made a commitment
to reversing this trend. Workforce development expansion, improve-
ment in funding are prominent features of the bipartisan Infra-
structure Investment and Jobs Act. The infrastructure law allows
states to obligate funds from programs like the National Highway
Performance Program toward workforce development activities.
The law provides grants for programs that train and certify work-
ers on the installation of energy-efficient technologies in partner-
ship with labor unions and employers. The law also includes the
Digital Equity Act of 2021, which creates two new grant programs
that provide funds that develop digital equity plans and help get
people the requisite skills to compete in today’s economy.
Lastly, the overwhelming majority of funds in IIJA are subject
to Davis-Bacon requirements to ensure workers are paid a fair
wage. These are excellent developments but we must find more
ways to modernize the American labor force.
So today, I hope we can take a close look at existing programs
and discuss new initiatives to expand our country’s pool of skilled
workers. By investing in workforce development, we can help ease
our current labor shortage and position American workers to thrive
in the future.
I would now like yield to the Ranking Member, Ms. Young Kim,
for her opening statement.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman Crow. I want to thank
you for holding this very important topical hearing, and I want to
thank all of our witnesses joining us virtually today and testifying
before us.
Our entrepreneurs are our nation’s job creators. Their innovative
products and services fuel our economies and communities. They
take risks. They train employees. And they provide two-thirds of all
jobs. The new jobs.
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As a small business owner, I know the adversities and obstacles
that small businesses must overcome to succeed. The hurdles small
businesses are facing right now are high. Inflation is soaring, sup-
ply chains are in chaos, and regulations are mounting. Small busi-
nesses are also facing historic job openings and labor shortages. Re-
cent job numbers show positive growth as we reopen from the pan-
demic and mandates come to an end. However, the current job
market contains 1.14 million less employed workers than prior to
the pandemic. And main street still struggles to find employees.
The most recent job openings and labor turnover summary re-
ported 11.3 million job openings and recent surveys report over half
of all small business owners are having trouble finding qualified
people to hire compared to a year ago.
NFIB surveys also indicate historically large numbers of small
businesses are struggling to increase their workforce despite almost
half of all employers raising wages. Furthermore, 22 percent of
small business owners reported labor costs as the top business
problem, just two points below December’s 48-year record high.
These staffing shortages have a direct impact on our economy. Sev-
enty-seven percent of small business owners reported that staffing
shortages are resulting in significant to mild lost sales opportuni-
ties. Small businesses do not just need to fill open positions but
they also need qualified and skilled workers. In February, 61 per-
cent of small businesses reported hiring or trying to hire employ-
ees, and an astounding 93 percent of those small employers hiring
or trying to hire reported few or no qualified applicants for those
open positions. Inaction is not an option as small business place
Help Wanted signs on their doors and innovation is stifled due to
a lack of workers.
The Small Business Entrepreneurship Council found that just 5
percent of small business owners agree that Congress’s policies are
helping the economy and small business. Only 5 percent. We must
change that and enact pro-growth policies that support small busi-
nesses in meeting their workforce needs and consumer demand.
Republican Members on this Committee have solutions. I am
proud to have introduced the bipartisan H.R. 6450, the SCORE for
Small Business Act of 2022. The SCORE program provides
mentorship, education, and training opportunities for small busi-
nesses. Recently, SCORE has hosted webinars for small business
owners on adapting to the trends transforming the workforce. By
authorizing and modernizing this important program, we can en-
sure that SBA’s resource partners are prepared to help entre-
preneurs meet their business needs, including labor and workforce
development.
Additionally, my colleague, Vice Ranking Member Williams, has
bipartisan legislation to utilize the Small Business Development
Centers and Women’s Business Centers to assist small businesses
in hiring career and technical education graduates.
There is no ‘‘one size fits all’’ solution to meet the diverse de-
mands of our unique small business communities. However, I am
confident that we can work together to empower small businesses
with resources to address the skills gap, promote career and tech-
nical education opportunities, encourage apprenticeships, and re-
store the small business economy so our job creators can prosper.
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I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today and I hope
to work with my colleagues to find real solutions to support our
small businesses in finding labor and closing the skills gap.
Thank you, Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Young Kim. The gentlelady
yields back.
I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing will
proceed. Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide a statement
and each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for questions.
Please ensure that your microphone is on when you begin speaking
and that you return to mute when finished.
With that, I would like to introduce our first witness.
Our first witness is Mr. Gerald Arnold. As the business manager
since 2017 and a Member of the Joint Apprenticeship Training
Committee since 2008, he has worked to enhance recruitment,
training, and retention of union pipefitters. His leadership of edu-
cational efforts in the trade has earned him several appointments
by state and city leaders, including a 3-year appointment by the
governor of Colorado in 2019 to the Business Experiential Learning
Commission in which he guides development of a youth apprentice-
ship program. Thank you, Mr. Arnold. I look forward to your testi-
mony.
Our next witness is Dr. Mordecai Brownlee, the sixth president
of the Community College of Aurora in my district. During his ten-
ure, he has focused on creating initiatives that lift up lower-income
members of our community and prepare them for careers. In 2020,
Dr. Brownlee was featured by EdTech Magazine as one of the 30
Most Interesting Voices in Higher Education who are shaping the
conversation around educational technology and information tech-
nology. In 2022, he was featured by Diverse Issues in Higher Edu-
cation Magazine as a new school leader representing the next gen-
eration of college presidents. Thank you, Dr. Brownlee for being
here today.
Our third witness is Mr. Joseph Kane, a fellow at the Brookings
Institution. His work focuses on a wide array of infrastructure
issues, including transportation and water infrastructure. Recently,
his work has explored transportation and placemaking, climate in-
vestment and the challenges and opportunities facing the country’s
infrastructure workforce and its essential workforce more broadly.
Prior to Brookings, Mr. Kane was an economist at the U.S. Bureau
of Labor Statistics. Thank you, Mr. Kane. I look forward to your
testimony.
And I will now yield to the Ranking Member to introduce our
final witness.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
Our fourth witness is Ms. Diane Benck, general operations man-
ager and owner of West Side Tractor Sales Company who is testi-
fying today on behalf of the Associated Equipment Distributors.
West Side Tractor Sales Company, a John Deere construction
equipment dealer, has been in business for an impressive 58 years
and has 11 locations across Illinois and Indiana. West Side Tractor
Sales Company is also a family-owned business. While Ms. Bank
and her two brothers are the second generation of the family in the
business, the third generation is already involved in the company.
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I understand Ms. Benck takes pride in coaching and training the
next generation to have the same success and growth as her and
her brothers. She is also very active in a variety of industry-related
associations. She served two terms on the Associated Equipment
Distributors Board of Directors before becoming the first female
volunteer leader of the association in 2018 when she was inaugu-
rated as Chairwoman. She is currently on the AED Foundation’s
Board of Directors, which focuses on workforce development and at-
tracting skilled workers to the industry. Ms. Benck has also twice
served as president of the John Deere Construction Dealer Associa-
tion. I know Ms. Benck’s experience as a small business owner and
vast knowledge on workforce development issues will be extremely
beneficial to our hearing today.
So, Ms. Benck, I thank you for the time to join us today and for
taking the time to testify. I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Young Kim.
And I will remind the witness to keep to the 5 minutes. Ms.
Young Kim and I run a tight ship on the Small Business Com-
mittee and we ask that people stay within their time. There is a
clock on the screen to help you with that effort to prevent you from
being gaveled out. So, with that I thank all the witness for being
here today. And Mr. Arnold, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF GERALD LEE ARNOLD, BUSINESS MANAGER
& FINANCIAL SECRETARY TREASURER, DENVER PIPE-
FITTERS LOCAL #208; MORDECAI IAN BROWNLEE, ED.D.,
PRESIDENT, COMMUNITY COLLEGE OF AURORA; JOSEPH W.
KANE, FELLOW, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION; DIANE
BENCK, GENERAL OPERATIONS MANAGER AND OWNER,
WEST SIDE TRACTOR SALES CO.
STATEMENT OF GERALD LEE ARNOLD
Mr. ARNOLD. Thank you, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member
Young Kim, and Members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the
opportunity to testify in front of you this morning to talk about reg-
istered apprenticeship programs, and specifically our program that
we operate here in Denver, Colorado.
During the introduction, it was noted that I currently serve as
the business manager at Denver Pipefitters Local 208. I also have
the pleasure of recently being elected as the district vice president
for our International Union, the United Association of Pipefitters,
Plumbers, HVAC Service Technicians, Sprinkler Fitters, and
Pipeliners.
My experience has been one as an actual apprentice. So, I served
my apprenticeship from 2003 until 2008 working for a contractor
called Murphy Company during that entire 5 years and really just
enjoyed every single second of the opportunity. I was extremely
thankful for getting the chance to learn how to become a profes-
sional pipefitter and I wanted to give back as soon as I completed
my apprenticeship program. I had the opportunity to become an in-
structor here in our program teaching mostly welding classes to
3rd, 4th, and 5th year apprentices. So, I basically took the summer
off after I completed my apprenticeship program and came back the
following school year. Instead of being a student, I became an in-
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structor and really enjoyed the 7 years getting a chance to teach
our apprentices.
After that, I had the opportunity to be hired and took the posi-
tion of training director in charge of the day-to-day operations of
our registered apprentice program, continuing education and cer-
tification programs that we do here as part of the training depart-
ment.
In 2017, I was elected by our membership to serve as their busi-
ness manager and continued to play an integral role as the sec-
retary of our Joint Apprentice Training Committee that oversees
and guides the overall operations of the training program here at
Local 208. We are excited because we have 230-plus apprentices
currently in our program somewhere along the 5-year program and
we continue to see those numbers increase. Apprentice programs,
I think, are the most effective way for training construction profes-
sionals, specifically my experience being with pipefitters on both
the construction and HVAC service side. And the reasons for that
is being able to partner the on-the-job training with related in-
struction given in the classroom this allows those apprentices to
have the full experience. We try to duplicate what they will en-
counter on a jobsite and out here in the classroom provide a safe
space for apprentices to make mistakes. Most people learn much
more from their mistakes than they do from their successes. Unfor-
tunately, you cannot allow that to happen when you are on a cus-
tomer’s property as we are building their equipment or safety is a
concern. So, we want to have properly-trained, qualified
journeypersons overseeing that on-the-job portion but allow that
safe space down here in the classroom to have folks make mistakes
and learn from it. No matter how much you try, you cannot dupli-
cate every possible scenario a construction pipefitter or an HVAC
service technician would run into on a jobsite because not every
building is the same. Each system is designed for that particular
building the way it was engineered, the way the architecture was
completed to make that kind of a special system. And while sys-
tems have similar faults and need similar types of repairs, having
that on-the-job component partnered with the classroom training
really does prepare them for any possible scenario they could run
into as a qualified journeyperson as they continue their career.
The tremendous benefit that I think our model provides specifi-
cally to small businesses is our contractors of all sizes have the
same access to the great training program and it is based off of an
hourly training contribution. While we utilize the multi-employer,
it is an 80 cents per manhour contribution into our ERISA-gov-
erned training trust fund. And so, while we have contractors that
have hundreds of employees, the vast majority of our employers
have 30 or less employees. They are small shops, and there is no
way they would have the resources and the capital needed to un-
dertake a large training effort like we have at our apprenticeship
program here at Local 208.
So, I looked at our list. I actually printed out a report this morn-
ing, and I am pleased to say that we have 80 percent of our con-
tractors, like I said, have less than 30 employees. So, Air Tech Me-
chanical for one was at the top of my report because it goes alpha-
betical order. They have 12 members working for them. And out of
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those 12 members, two of them are apprentices and one of them
is a pipe tradesman that is an entry level position really to get
some experience and decide whether or not they want to pursue the
whole career and apply for the apprenticeship program.
And so, we enjoy about a $1.8 million annual operating budget
for the training program, and those contractors, like I said, have
the same access that our large contractors with 400-plus members
may be working for them right now.
Because it is directly related to the amount of employees they
have and the amount of work that they are performing, it makes
it an equitable access for not only our employers but also our ap-
prentices. The apprentices do not have to face any kind of personal
financial burden. They get compensated for on-the-job training——
Chairman CROW. Mr. Arnold, Mr. Arnold, you are over the 5
minute time so I am going to have to stop you here but we can fin-
ish up during the question and answer period as we dive into it
with the members. Thank you very much.
Dr. Brownlee, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MORDECAI IAN BROWNLEE
Mr. BROWNLEE. Good morning. And thank you for this oppor-
tunity, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young Kim, and Mem-
bers of the Subcommittee, my name is Mordecai Brownlee, and I
am the proud president of the Community College of Aurora.
CCA is part of the Colorado Community College System and
serves over 10,000 students annually. At the onset of the pandemic,
our enrollment dropped 12 percent. However, I am proud to share
that our college has rallied hard for our students, and to date have
recaptured 7 percent of that loss and we won’t stop until all stu-
dents have been accounted for.
Uniquely, our institution serves in the most diverse region of the
state and student demographics represent that reality accordingly.
As a federally designated Hispanic Serving Institution and Minor-
ity Serving Institution, 64 percent of our students identify as stu-
dents of color, 51 percent of our students are Pell grant eligible,
and 50 percent of our students are first-generation college students.
With five continents and over 90 countries represented at our insti-
tution, we are proud to serve a rich and diverse student body that
includes the state’s largest immigrant population.
It is also important to note that our small business owners with-
in our area represent this rich diversity as well. Community col-
leges, like ours, stand on the front lines and in service to the most
disadvantaged students and those hardest impacted due to the
pandemic through our mission of open-access, affordable, high-
quality postsecondary education, and workforce training. Through
partnerships with community organizations, such as our Aurora
Chamber of Commerce, Aurora Economic Development Council,
Arapahoe/Douglas County Workforce Development Council, and the
BuildStrong Academy, CCA is utilizing data and feedback provided
by small businesses and large industries to re-envision and trans-
form our student learning experiences. Intended to train displaced
workers, nontraditional adult students, and first-time-in-college
students, these efforts seek to upskill or reskill to obtain industry-
recognized credentials that align in-demand, high-wage occupa-
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8
tions. Currently, we are designing new programs in healthcare, re-
newable energy, and construction management, and offer hybrid,
online, and in-person instruction outside the typical working hours
to accommodate our students’ varied schedules.
Our students are directly impacted by the various socioeconomic
challenges that face other metropolitan communities around the
nation. Lack of reliable transportation, childcare, broadband access,
and a supportive network have historically created barriers to a
quality education and the obtainment of their dreams. Listening to
the voice of our students, CCA has worked in hand with our stu-
dent body to eliminate barriers and provide resources to promote
equitable access and opportunities for our students.
Take, for example, Victoria Browning. Prior to attending CCA,
Victoria held a full-time job earning $14 an hour to support her two
young children, while struggling to address thousands of dollars in
student debt. Thanks to a grant created by the U.S. Department
of Labor, the Strengthening Working Families Initiative at CCA of-
fered students like Victoria childcare, college counseling, and career
support. Or, take for example our Asegurando Learning Program.
To address the equity gap in student achievement between stu-
dents of color and their white peers, CCA was awarded a Title V
grant from the U.S. Department of Education. From there, our
Asegurando Learning Community was born. Recently, CCA estab-
lished a new division within the college to focus strategically on the
placement of students into career mentorships, internships,
externships, and apprenticeships to level the playing field among
those who have access to supportive networks and those who are
not as privileged.
Supports at the federal level are critical for our continued suc-
cess. Pell Grant financing for very short-term programs, and fund
increases for TRIO, Minority Serving Institutions and the nation’s
Hispanic-Serving Institutions could dramatically transform institu-
tions. Such transformation would provide the resources to create
and sustain efforts aimed to retool and upskill the workforce nec-
essary to power small businesses and industries while helping our
most struggling students finance college.
Additionally, our workforce programs, while innovative and re-
sponsive, are expensive to operate. For example, programs in
healthcare and advanced manufacturing are in great demand; but
are also among the most expensive programs to offer. To maintain
our roles as leading providers of workforce training and maintain
affordability for students, it is critical that we make meaningful in-
vestments in career and technical education infrastructure at com-
munity colleges. Dedicated community college job-training pro-
grams, like those originally included in the Build Back Better Act,
would fund these critical efforts.
In conclusion, in today’s culture where the call for innovation and
increased efficiencies are abundant, community colleges cannot af-
ford to be viewed as inefficient and nonresponsive. Our community
small businesses and industry partners are depending on us to be
responsive to their needs. Our students are depending on us to cre-
ate an environment where equitable student success is fostered and
every barrier towards the fulfillment of that success is removed.
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The Community College of Aurora stands ready to meet these
needs for years to come.
Thank you and I look forward to answering any questions you
may have.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Dr. Brownlee.
Mr. Kane, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH W. KANE
Mr. KANE. Good morning, Members of the Committee. Thank
you for this opportunity. My name is Joseph Kane, and I am a fel-
low at the Brookings Institution. The purpose of my remarks today
is to frame specific challenges and opportunities facing the coun-
try’s infrastructure workforce, includingthe potential to expand ca-
reer pathways.
As you know, workers have faced an increasingly polarized labor
market during the pandemic and over the last few decades. Middle-
skill jobs, which typically require more than a high school diploma
but less than a 4-year college degree have grown slowly. At the
same time, the country’s infrastructure, including transportation,
water, energy, and broadband has increasingly faced gaps in in-
vestment. That is not only true when it comes to physical upgrades
but also when it comes to preparing a skilled workforce to con-
struct, operate, and maintain all these systems.
However, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act offers an
unprecedented opportunity to address these gaps and accelerate
momentum around careers that pay higher wages, require shorter
term credentials, and need a new generation of talent. To maximize
this opportunity, federal, state, and local leaders cannot just create
short-term jobs, mainly construction jobs, for the same people. They
need to be ready to harness funding in ways that expand opportu-
nities to more workers—women and men, the unemployed and un-
deremployed, and younger students and adult learners across a
broad range of positions in the skilled trades and other in-demand
fields. They need to focus on creating an infrastructure talent pipe-
line that can offer more sustained opportunity to workers and pro-
vide greater certainty to employers, including small businesses.
The country’s infrastructure workforce challenges primarily cen-
ter around a lack of visibility and flexibility. Addressing these chal-
lenges begins with acknowledging the variety of infrastructure ca-
reer pathways nationally. In 2019, before the pandemic hit, more
than 17 million workers, or nearly 1 out of every 10 workers were
employed in infrastructure across 91 different occupations. A basic
challenge facing infrastructure employers, including utilities, trans-
portation agencies, and engineering firms, is a lack of awareness
among Americans that these careers even exist. This obscurity con-
tinues even as infrastructure jobs offer more competitive, equitable
wages paying 30 percent more to workers at lower ends of the wage
spectrum, in other words, workers with the least amount of experi-
ence who are just starting their careers.
Prospective workers may also lack awareness of and easy access
to the training needed for these careers, which tend to emphasize
work-based learning opportunities. As a result, there are training
and retention gaps. Nearly a quarter of all infrastructure workers
will need to be replaced over the next decade. But some occupa-
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tions are expected to see 10 percent or more of their workers leave
each year on average. That is especially the case for infrastructure
jobs with older workers near retirement or they have the continued
struggles reaching younger students, women, people of color, and
other individuals.
Addressing these challenges hinges on proactive federal leader-
ship to ensure greater visibility and flexibility. That does not mean
filling one type of job in one place, but rather having multiple entry
points available for more people in more places. This flexibility
matters because many unemployed and low-wage workers in hospi-
tality, retail, and other industries following the pandemic need to
transition to better jobs, which will require many branching path-
ways.
Expanded financial and technical capacity around regional plan-
ning and employer engagement is a must, as is an expanded focus
on future-looking skills development and flexible training opportu-
nities.
For example, employers can partner directly with community col-
leges and other educational institutions to help students gain the
necessary skills and qualifications to be hired. Federal leaders
could support such collaborations and sector partnerships through
expanded funding and technical assistance as part of competitive
grants in the infrastructure law. Apprentice and pre-apprenticeship
programs offer another earn and learn opportunity. Beyond addi-
tional federal funding for apprenticeships, expanding the Work Op-
portunity Tax Credit could further incentivize employers to test
new approaches.
Above all, the ultimate reach and impact of any new federal
funding must ensure there are flexible training opportunities.
Programs focused on younger workers, particularly those out of
school, out of work, and facing other social and economic disadvan-
tages, can grow the infrastructure workforce. Service-based learn-
ing opportunities and expanded Pell grant eligibility for short-term
job training are two ways that federal leaders could address these
youth workforce needs. Of course, many other nontraditional and
underrepresented workers, including women, people of color, and
middle-aged workers can realize greater opportunity in this sector.
Enhancing existing federal efforts, such as the women in appren-
ticeship and nontraditional occupations grant program could help
community-based organizations provide more accessible on ramps.
Members of the Committee, I believe there are enormous chal-
lenges facing our infrastructure workforce, but also enormous op-
portunities. Admittedly, the issues that I described today only
scratch the surface of the issue. But as conversations evolve in the
coming months, I want to emphasize the opportunity you and other
leaders have to further refine and test potential applications of any
new funding. To not simply reinforce existing and inequitable
workforce gaps, but to create stronger pathways for all prospective
workers. Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Kane.
Ms. Benck, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
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STATEMENT OF DIANE BENCK
Ms. BENCK. Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young Kim, and
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, my name is Diane
Benck and it is my pleasure to appear before you today as a small
business owner directly impacted by the skilled workforce shortage
and on behalf of Associated Equipment Dealers (AED), the inter-
national trade association representing companies that sell, rent,
service, manufacture construction, agricultural farm, mining, en-
ergy, material handling, and industrial equipment.
I am the general operations manager and co-owner of West Side
Tractor, a full-service John Deere construction and forestry equip-
ment dealer.
You know, I would like to say that my family story is really the
story of the American dream. My father, who grew up with noth-
ing, joined the Air Force during the Korean War. The Air Force
gave him technical skills and education so that when his service
was done, he went to work as a technician for a John Deere dealer-
ship. My parents dreamed of having their own business, so when
a territory for John Deere opened, they put every penny they had
and created something of their own.
If we fast-forward 60 years to today, we have 11 locations, ap-
proximately 35 employees, and my brothers and myself are work-
ing towards passing the business now to the third generation of
family members.
As a small family-owned, capital-intensive business, we have a
lot of challenges right now, from supply chain issues, inflation, and
ever-changing regulatory and tax environment. But the greatest
need is right where my father started his career in the technical
trades. And whether you are Wagner Equipment in Aurora, Colo-
rado, or BJF Corporation in Placentia, California, you cannot find
skilled workers, particularly to serve as diesel service techs.
According to the A.D. Foundation Commission study, the equip-
ment industry foregoes at least $2.4 billion in lost revenue annu-
ally due to the inability to find skilled service technicians. That is
money that could be used to further expand our businesses and cre-
ate more jobs and economic activity.
It is also important to understand that if equipment dealers do
not have the skilled workforce needed to repair and maintain
heavy equipment, construction projects are delayed costing our cus-
tomers in lost time and money. It truly creates inefficiencies up
and down the supply chain.
Most service technicians attend a 2-year technical college degree
program that focuses on heavy equipment technology. Tradition-
ally, the occupation was stereotyped as dirty. However, with recent
innovations, today’s heavy equipment is on the cutting edge of tech-
nology requiring technicians to work with computers to diagnose
and fix problems.
In fact, when you include technical education with our manufac-
turer mandated and in-house training, a typical service technician
logs similar classroom hours to someone with a bachelor’s degree
from a university without crippling student loan debt.
These are very well paid positions that are truly careers. At West
Side Tractor, our apprentices start at more than $22 an hour and
quickly escalate to $45 an hour within 4 years, not include com-
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prehensive benefits and other incentives. We could easily increase
our technician workforce by 20 percent if we could find qualified
workers. A.D. is doing exceptional work accrediting heavy machin-
ery technology programs at high schools and colleges, as well as
educating parents, teachers, students, and guidance counselors
about the well-paying, rewarding careers in the equipment indus-
try. Yet, we continue to push our kids to pursue 4-year degrees
when there are millions upon millions of jobs in the skilled trades
open which require taking on minimal debt and an opportunity to
work towards that American dream that has worked so well for my
family.
The problem is not unique to equipment dealers. Our manufac-
turers do not have the workers to build the equipment and our cus-
tomers do not have the skilled workforce to operate the equipment.
Meanwhile, infrastructure projects await, particularly after passage
of the bipartisan infrastructure bill.
To address this issue, the country must provide increased fund-
ing to career and technical education programs to build the pipe-
line of skilled workers and incentivize students to pursue alter-
natives to 4-year degrees. The skilled workforce shortage continues
to be the equipment industry’s greatest challenge. It hinders
growth and economic opportunity, creates inefficiencies, and im-
pacts the country’s competitiveness. As a nation, it is imperative
that we steer the next generation to careers in the skilled trades
and align public policy and investments to growing this important
workforce for our future.
Thank you for the honor for appearing before you today and I
look forward to any questions you may have.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Benck. I appreciate your testi-
mony.
Thank you to all the witness for being here today.
I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
Starting with Mr. Arnold, Mr. Arnold, I had a chance to recently
visit with you all at Pipefitters Local 208 in Denver and we had
a discussion about the United Associations of Veterans and Piping
Program. I have been a long-time veterans advocate and one of the
issues we have always struggled with is that gap between when
someone takes off the uniform to when their veterans benefits start
to flow and how we often lose so many veterans who fall through
the cracks during that gap period. But your VIP program is ex-
tremely innovative in that it closes that gap and it starts the train-
ing while they are still in uniform so it is a seamless transition.
So, could you just tell a little bit about that program, what you
have learned about it and how effective it has been in helping our
veterans and helping the trades and the workforce?
Mr. ARNOLD. Thank you, Chairman Crow.
Yes, I ran out of time there but I do appreciate the question. Our
Veterans in Piping Program really works well for everybody in-
volved. So, the United Association started that program years ago.
It is now operating on eight different bases across the country. And
what it allows is while military personnel are still active duty, they
are allowed to take 18 weeks of accelerated training in either weld-
ing, HVAC service, or sprinkler fitting. And the nice part is be-
cause that training takes place while they are still active duty,
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they are still receiving their pay and benefits from their time in the
service, and then they complete that training prior to mustering
out of the service. And towards the end of the training, they are
allowed to pick the location of their choice. And so whatever ap-
prenticeship program that they want to enter in the United Asso-
ciation, they get to go back to the area of the country that they
would like to live along with starting their career and they get
what we call direct entry into the program of their choice. And so,
because that is seamlessly happening, we are allowed to tell them
exactly what the wage is going to be, provide employment
verification letters so they have the documentation they need to
apply for mortgages or if they are going to rent an apartment or
a house, their family has some idea of what they are going to be
looking at doing. They know they have full health insurance bene-
fits. And so, it really makes it a nice transition. They receive 1
year’s credit for the 18 weeks of accelerated training they received
during their time in the military and then they are automatically
qualified to start receiving their GI Bill benefits due to being ac-
cepted into the registered apprenticeship program. So those GI Bill
benefits work based off their on-the-job training hours and they re-
ceive the highest amount at the very beginning where they are
learning the lowest wage as a first-year apprentice obviously makes
a percentage of a qualified journeyperson. And then that pay in-
creases as their skill and knowledge increases. So, it really makes
it a nice transition for the individual and it also helps us as an in-
dustry. The skillsets that they bring, their sense of responsibility
and accountability. Everything really our employers are looking for.
And so, it has been a great partnership.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Just an example of
frankly how our labor unions are really leading the way. You know,
it is a brotherhood and sisterhood, not just an organization, and I
think that culture translates really well for a lot of our veterans
and your ability to do that. And I would like to see these programs
expand. I think the other trade unions are uniquely qualified to ac-
tually expand these into the service and help our veterans transi-
tion. And I appreciate your leadership in that regard.
Dr. Brownlee, in the minute that I have left I would like you to
comment briefly on your community college’s work with local busi-
ness development centers and how we can expand those relation-
ships and how they are doing.
Mr. BROWNLEE. Thank you so much for that question there,
Chairman Crow. And what I would just say is, again, as you heard
me talk about our various Chamber of Commerce, Arapahoe/Doug-
las Workforce Council, the work that we are doing with the various
entities here, in our service area of the Community College of Au-
rora is just critical conversations that we are having to ensure that
the workforce meets the various shortages that are being experi-
enced. We certainly all heard about the great resignation or the
great recalibration. Essentially, we are just having conversations
about how to retool and upskill our community individuals, our
adult learners, as well as our traditional age students to create
new opportunities, new career pathways to ensure the growth and
sustainability of our communities. I am excited about the conversa-
tions that we have been having with our industry partners to cre-
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ate new pipelines of training, on job training and opportunities,
and it just creates, again, as we think social and economic mobility,
it certainly excites us here at the Community College of Aurora to
be a part of this advancement of our communities. Thank you, sir.
Chairman CROW. Thank you so much, Dr. Brownlee.
My time has expired.
The Ranking Member, Ms. Young Kim, is now recognized for 5
minutes.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
Ms. Benck, I am pleasantly delighted to hear that your father
served in the Korean War. And so, please, offer my deepest appre-
ciation for his service. As an immigrant from South Korea, obvi-
ously, I have a very soft spot when it comes to thanking, especially
all the veterans, but especially Korean War veterans. So, my hat
is off to you, your father. And your father has founded this family-
owned business which you are now taking over and your family
and your children are also taking over. So, it is really important
because all of our witnesses are job creators in our nation. But
most importantly, supporting our veteran-owned, women-owned,
and also minority-owned businesses are something that Chairman
Crow and I and Members of this Committee are passionately sup-
portive of.
Ms. Benck, your testimony references the many challenges of
being a small business owner, including inflation, supply chains,
and ever-changing tax and regulatory environment. So, could you
talk about how your business is managing with all of this economic
headwinds?
Ms. BENCK. Well, I have to say that, you know, I have been in
this business for 35 years and this has definitely been one of the
most challenging in a good way. We have never produced more
sales and our bottom line has never looked better. And it has never
been more frustrating or difficult because we cannot price tractors
next year. We do not know when we are going to get availability.
So, I mean, I have never seen the supply chain as disrupted as it
is. I mean, I hope as a country we can get this fixed. I know all
the construction equipment manufacturers are working hard but it
is super challenging to do business right now.
From a tax environment, you know, we always carry very large
rental fleets so we always have changing rules on depreciation or
like-kind exchange. And so, 1 minute, you know, we have these
hundreds of millions of dollars of rental fleets and then the tax
rules change and then we have to kind of regroup. The 100 percent
depreciation did sort of negate the like-kind exchange program
going away but, you know, we certainly have challenges for the
next couple of years as those depreciation amounts start to phase
out. But really, the biggest problem we have right now is this labor
shortage as I have discussed. You know, our capacity to serve our
customers is diminished because of not being able to hire anyone.
And technicians are number one on the list. But we also have had
a lot more struggles just hiring administrative people and sales-
men. And we have had very low turnover rates compared to some
of the other numbers that I have been reading about through this
whole great resignation. But it is definite more challenges right
now than I have ever seen in our history.
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Ms. YOUNG KIM. I know I heard that from your testimony, too.
I mean, the shortage of having the qualified technician workforce
is critically the biggest challenge in your industry and as is in all
industries because you mentioned the capacity to serve your cus-
tomers is deeply affected because you do not have the qualified
technicians. So, you testified that you could easily increase your
technician workforce by 20 percent if only you could find qualified
workers. So, talk more about how the current labor shortages have
impacted your business operation and revenue, as well as those
members of AED. I am sure you hear more and talk about this
every single day.
Ms. BENCK. You look at we are putting up growth and sales
numbers of 15-20 percent and our labor sales were only up 6 per-
cent. That would have easily been up 15 percent if we had the
number of people that we needed to have. And, you know, you hear
stories around the country of you call for a service call and it is
2 weeks before a technician can get there. In the meantime, that
tractor is sitting. And we are about ready to flood the entire indus-
try with more money through the new infrastructure bill. So, you
know, these challenges just become greater and greater and great-
er. And for us, we believe we really need to reach down into the
high school level because we all have worked with all the technical
programs that are out there but we need to get more kids inter-
ested in coming into the industry. And somehow, we have to get
down to a lower level, whether it is junior high or high school and
get the school administrators to really be focusing on letting stu-
dents and parents know about the great careers that are available.
As I said, a lot of my very skilled technicians make six figures
in the Chicago area. That is a really good wage for no college debt.
And we are just not getting that message across in that lower lev-
els of education to let people pursue those kind of careers.
We have a great recruiting for the military as well, kind of simi-
lar to what was just described. I think we have hired three or four
technicians where they work for us for free and get skills and then
they have been fantastic but there are not enough people coming
out of the military to fuel our true needs. And it is not just con-
struction equipment. It is automobile technicians, truck technicians
and all the other skilled trades that are out there.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Well, thank you so much.
My time is up. I yield back. Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
The gentlelady from Kansas, Ms. Davids, who is the Chairwoman
of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and Capital Access
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Chairman Crow and Ranking Member
Young Kim for holding this hearing today.
As we have heard in this hearing today and for the last few
years, our small businesses are facing serious challenges, including
workforce challenges that have been brought on by this pandemic
and, you know, what we are doing here is trying to focus on how
we can help folks enter or re-enter the workforce and get these
good-paying jobs we are hearing about. Community colleges are, of
course, a major player in helping individuals skill and upskill and
reskill, especially as it comes to these highly technical and long-
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lasting careers. In fact, in the Kansas 3rd, where I represent, I like
to say that we are kind of a hidden gem of a thriving community
college environment. I mean, I am a little bit biased. I might be
saying that because I am the product and proud alum of Johnson
County Community College. And I have had the chance to work a
lot with the Kansas City, Kansas Community College to secure
funding for an automated robotics lab and program that they have
so that students can train with like real life automation equipment
that is currently being used in the industry. And I think this is es-
pecially relevant given the conversation that we have been having
today.
I am curious, Dr. Brownlee, if you could share a bit about what
successes or maybe even concerns, I am not sure, you have seen in
developing some of the kind of custom curriculum for specific
trades or jobs. And then also, if there is like, what the mix of the
students that are looking at those various career choices or
reskilling. I am just curious about that.
Mr. BROWNLEE. Thank you for the question, Representative
Davids. And I will tell you, we are excited that you are a proud
product of community colleges, especially as we enter April, Com-
munity College Month. That is a great excitement to us.
But to your question, as we think about essentially in our service
area, our industry partners have been very responsive in wanting
to be at the table. We include industry partners through advisory
councils that help us to shape what are essentially the learning
outcomes that are associated with these jobs. As you heard one of
our fellow, the individuals giving the testimony talked about how
there are technicians that are needed in these various industries.
And so, we work with our partners to identify what are those
learning outcomes. A bit of the challenge really becomes those very
short-term programs. As we think about funding those programs is
where the true to concern to your question of the challenge comes
in is funding because depending upon the nature and the length of
that academic program or that workforce-related program, we are
talking about social and economic mobility, workforce-driven pro-
grams. So, 3, 4 week, 5 week programs, 9 week programs, this indi-
vidual can now take on a new career and pathway and be able to
provide for them and their families in a manner in which they
would not have been able to do previously. However, the funding
becomes a challenge. Based on the length of it, it may not be fund-
ed and carried by the Pell grant, and so that is where we really
need the help and the challenge.
In terms of those that we are seeing engage with these trainings,
everything from the traditional age—I think about the work that
we are doing out of Cherry Creek Schools, the great work they are
doing out of the Cherry Creek Innovation Center where they are
directly tying students into high-wage, in-demand pathways to
work over here at Aurora Public Schools. So, there are strong part-
nerships with the traditional age.
The adult working populations are noncredit programs is where
we continue to have opportunity, and to be very honest with you,
it comes down to funding. We need to be able to fund the very
short-term programs. Otherwise, these individuals are coming out
of pocket and they may have the means or may not have the
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means. And so hopefully, the conversations that now we are having
and we are seeing some return on, and that is our industry partner
saying, listen, let’s sponsor some of these individuals, especially
these adult working learners to be able to fund them in their edu-
cation. Creative partnerships. However, we have to think about
sustainability and the implications if we cannot find a sustainable
result.
Ms. DAVIDS. Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Brownlee.
And also, just thank you to our other witnesses for your testi-
mony.
Mr. Arnold, I am excited and impressed about the training pro-
gram that you all have. And Ms. Benck, I really appreciated your
comments about us looking into the younger populations.
Chairman, I will yield back now. Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
I will now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams,
also the Vice Ranking Member of the Committee.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you,
Ranking Member Young Kim. And I just want to say in full disclo-
sure, and especially to Ms. Benck, I am an automobile dealer. I
have been in the automobile business, Chevrolet, Dodge, Chrysler,
Jeep, Ram for 51 years. My family is in it and my grandchildren
are now in it. So, I really enjoyed your statements. And also, was
glad that you mentioned about some of the Trump tax cuts that we
had in 2016—they are still in force—that have helped make our
business pretty good.
You talked about inventory. I normally have 800 units on the
ground. This morning in my car dealerships I have 22. So, we know
about what it has done to our industry. But thank you for bringing
up about the importance of cutting taxes.
With all that being said, the Biden administration continues to
show their lack of understanding for the real issues American
small businesses are facing. Instead of creating opportunities for all
businesses, President Biden is pushing government mandates that
favor big labor and are both unfair and extremely costly to tax-
payers. They just mean more money. And last month, Biden signed
an executive officer mandating project labor agreements on federal
construction contracts exceeding $35 million, which funnels these
critical government contracts to unions and cuts out other private
companies from being competitive.
A recent report by the Association of Builders and Contractors
stated that 87.3 percent of the U.S. construction workforce does
not—I repeat, does not belong to a union. These businesses should
not be excluded from applying for government projects because
they are not unionized with burdensome fees and failing pension
plans. We should push back on the efforts to impose restrictive
labor requirements on taxpayer funded construction projects and
ensure open, fair, and competitive bidding for all Americans. And
it saves us money by doing that.
So, my question to you, Ms. Benck, you represent the construc-
tion industry. I represent the car industry. Can you elaborate on
how President Biden’s executive order will affect your member
companies?
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Ms. BENCK. Well, honestly, I work in a very heavily unionized
area. So, the Chicago area, you cannot function without being in
a labor union. So, I do not know if it has much impact in Illinois.
But I think in other parts of the country, just your 80 percent are
not in labor unions, I think that there is—I do not know if that is
the exact number, but I would not be surprised at that. So, I do
think the important thing here that we get our infrastructure re-
built and not focus so much on whether it goes through labor
unions. And I am a supporter of labor unions. Like I said, I have
two I am signatory to here in Chicago. It is just a reality of doing
business up here. But to do things, to make that a requirement
seems to kind of sabotage what we are trying to accomplish in
terms of rebuilding this country’s infrastructure for our future.
Mr. WILLIAMS. I agree with. Picking winners and losers is not
good. Even competition does work.
I have been in the car business for over 50 years as I have stated
and I know firsthand that we are always looking for more mechan-
ics. We have talked about that. More mechanics, more technicians
and other skilled workers. Our country is facing a growing skills
gap from younger generations that are not joining the vocational
workforce at high enough rates. So, business owners in all sectors
of the economy are in critical need of workers, especially skilled
workers. One way that we can work to address the skills gap is by
informing and encouraging students to join career technical edu-
cation programs. A traditional 4-year college degree is not for ev-
eryone and we found that to be true in this day and time. We need
to ensure students know that there are other high-demand oppor-
tunities that will provide them with a good-paying job and success-
ful career.
So again, Ms. Benck, you even stated that in your testimony that
a service technician at an equipment dealership can easily make up
to 6 figures, and that is true with my car dealerships. Providing
that vocational program sets students up to learn a skill which
they can master over the years and then hopefully turn into their
own small business like your sone day. The return on investment
for skilled workers is undeniable and it is critical that we continue
to expand and encourage CTE opportunities.
So quickly, Mr. Arnold, given your background in apprentice pro-
grams, how can we better educate high schoolers who might be on
the fence about paying for a 4-year degree that there are other op-
portunities out there and not as costly, and what are the best prac-
tices to recruit more students to put a vocational option for them
in the future?
Mr. ARNOLD. Thank you for the question, Representative.
Very quickly, I think we just need to do a better job of explaining
the benefits to both parents and students so everybody involved un-
derstands about the excellent opportunities. A lot of times, you
know, folks were told they had to go the traditional career or tradi-
tional education path to be successful and I do not think we did
a good enough job explaining the benefits, explaining the financial
burdens. Best practices, what we have seen starting to work better,
is actually utilizing our current apprentices. The folks in our pro-
gram that can relate to the younger populations better than say
myself or folks that have been in the industry for 30 or 40 years.
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Getting their peers and letting them know exactly what they are
experiencing right now as existing apprentices has seemed to make
a big difference.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.
And Mr. Chairman, I yield my time back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
I will now recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Phillips,
the Chairman of the Committee on Oversight, Investigations, and
Regulations for 5 minutes.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to all the wit-
nesses today. I am grateful for your testimony.
Ms. Benck, I want to thank you for your wonderful remarks
about your business and unions. I think that one can be both pro-
business and pro-worker. And I think your remarks are wonderful
and I encourage every business in this country to follow suit.
When I am back in the district, I have been doing a program
called At Work with Dean where I spend about 3 hours, do a 3-
hour shift at various small businesses in my district. And without
exception, all are saying that business is improving, very strong in
most cases. And all are also saying that the attraction and reten-
tion of employees is terribly difficult. So, I think we are all in
agreement on that.
Starting with you, Ms. Benck, we hear a lot of reasons why peo-
ple have left the workforce. I would love to hear from each of our
witnesses about why you think that is the case. Starting with you,
Ms. Benck. What is keeping people out of the workforce based on
your experience?
Ms. BENCK. Well, I think maybe we are a little bit different
than—first of all, we were essential workers so we never stopped
working. We have had may be little higher attrition rates but not
compared to other businesses. And part of it is because we are high
paying wages here. We are not, you know, hospitality or people,
you know, making $10-12 an hour where I think you are getting
a lot more turnover. And I would say I think that what I have seen
in our people is that they are just a little bit more sole searching.
Do I really want to do this the rest of my life? Do I really want
to be a technician? Do I want to live somewhere else in the coun-
try? Illinois has a lot of issues and we have had just two techni-
cians resign in the last couple of weeks who want to move down
to more southern states with lower tax rates. And lower real estate
taxes. So, like I said, I do not think our resignation rates have been
as significant as other industries but it is still certainly an issue
for us.
Mr. PHILLIPS. And do you have any belief that perhaps
childcare or immigration reform could provide a boost to the labor
force?
Ms. BENCK. Oh, absolutely. I think we need more immigration,
and if we could get young people who are coming into this country
and start to get them trained as technicians, they do a great job.
I know of some dealers who have flown to the Philippines and
brought a whole plane full of technicians back. That was in Can-
ada. I do not think we have that policy here in the United States
to allow that to happen. But that is what this country is, is a whole
bunch of immigrants. And I certainly would hope that we can bring
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more people in that would help with the skills gap problem that
we are having.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you. I wholeheartedly agree.
Dr. Brownlee, any thoughts from your perspective about what is
keeping people out of the workforce and how we might rectify it?
Mr. BROWNLEE. Thank you so much for that question, Rep-
resentative Phillips. What I would say is that as we think about,
again, the apprenticeships, the internships of small business own-
ers, really looking to revolutionize what we have looked at in terms
of opportunities previously and asking the question what brings
about relevance and messaging and opportunity now for our stu-
dents? And so, I think the creation of new opportunities. We were
talking with industry partners just a few weeks ago. Relooking at
these job descriptions. What can we do to create some transferrable
skill opportunities where we can retool and upskill and create
more? Certainly, there are challenges with transportation,
childcare. You mentioned it, Representative, and thank you for ac-
knowledging that. And just what have been challenges of the low
socioeconomic communities continue. But we are committed, and
we are grateful for the funding that we have been able to receive
through the various grants, Department of Education, you name it.
Even here in the State of Colorado through our CoC programs to
create more opportunity and close gaps. What has been a challenge
for folks in terms of funding their higher education.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
Mr. Kane, your thoughts on what is keeping folks out of the
workforce and what we might do to rectify it.
Mr. KANE. Thank you, Representative. Look, I think the chal-
lenge is some of these are new issues at play but also enduring
issues. And so, there are significant replacement needs across, in
particular, the infrastructure sector. There is a silver tsunami hit-
ting a lot of these positions. That has been true for a very, very
long time. And the sector is very traditional in good ways and bad
where there is an overemphasis on service provision, and often an
underemphasis on who are going to be those future workers that
are going to take on these roles? Even in the capital planning proc-
ess for these different agencies. You know, workers are kind of a
second concern I would argue compared to some of the physical up-
grades. And so, understanding that there needs to be more flexi-
bility and visibility as I said before, and particularly for younger
workers, younger students. I appreciate what was reflected in some
of the other testimony on that. But there need to be mentorships,
knowledge transfer as this older generation transitions out, that
the younger generation actually can take on and understand what
the nature of the work is and not just a simple credential in isola-
tion but actually a pathway where they can grow and learn.
Mr. PHILLIPS. I see we are out of time, Mr. Kane. I was hoping
to get to you, Mr. Arnold, but perhaps next time.
I yield back. Thanks.
Chairman CROW. The gentleman yields back.
I will now recognize the gentleman from Mr. New York, Mr.
Garbarino, for 5 minutes.
Mr. GARBARINO. Thank you, Chairman. And thank you to the
Ranking Member for hosting this hearing.
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I have a question. I will start with Ms. Benck and maybe Mr. Ar-
nold can add in to it. Ms. Benck, you run your own business. And
something I heard from my electrical contractors, I had a meeting
with them yesterday, and they talked about a lot of the women and
minority-owned businesses. And they said that right now under the
SBA—the federal government under the SBA size standards set
forth in their regulations that they used a gross revenue standard
when determining whether a woman or minority-owned business
can participate in these SBA programs. And since it is gross, are
you concerned that using that current standard and not updating
it based on increased cost of goods, increased cost of doing business
that certain businesses like yours or others might get knocked out
of the program prematurely just because of the way inflation is?
Ms. BENCK. I do not know exactly what the SBA standards are.
I certainly am very familiar with like the State of Illinois and City
of Chicago, State of Indiana standards. I would think that they run
pretty similar. But I think one of the really big problems of those
programs is that you graduate too quickly. The reality is there is
still a lack of MB, WB businesses out there to do construction
work. And all the states are putting in higher and higher percent-
ages that that work needs to be subcontracted. And there is just
not enough skilled people out there. I would much prefer to see
some more criteria put in as far as the number of minorities or
women in the workforce working on a particular job to me would
raise it better than selecting one specific customer or owner of a
company would be more effective. And also, what we have seen
over and over again is you get a very qualified minority contractor
and then everybody floods to them because they do a good job.
They get too big. They graduate out of the program.
Mr. GARBARINO. They hit a certain revenue standard and they
get graduated out?
Ms. BENCK. Yep.
Mr. GARBARINO. And then you are all stuck in the same posi-
tion as you just were.
Ms. BENCK. Yeah. And I know there has been discussion in the
State of Illinois of even taking those standards completely off.
Where that is right now I do not know but definitely for construc-
tion jobs I think, you know, a lot of times it is around $30 million
is pretty darn small. I mean, it costs a lot to do any kind of road
construction or trucking or whatever it is. That is pretty small.
Mr. GARBARINO. No, absolutely. I know the same thing in my
state of New York. A lot of projects cost that much.
Mr. Arnold, I am not sure, have you heard anything similar in
Colorado with some of your contractors? I know you probably work
very closely with them since you have the program that you cur-
rently run.
Mr. ARNOLD. Thank you, Representative. My experience really
has been more that the city and county of Denver has similar pro-
gram requirements and there is a lot of work going on at Denver
International Airport. It is a concern because it is based off gross
revenue. The cost of materials has gone up significantly and I
think labor costs will follow suit as you try to backfill the labor
needs. And so, I think it is worth taking a hard look at it. It makes
sense on the surface. You know, your gross revenue should be a re-
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flect of what type of profit margin that you make at the end of the
project. With the increase on the goods, if you look at a Chiller or
whatever piece of equipment that you are buying, materials, be-
cause they have increased so much and we still want to serve our
customers, I think the contractors are sharpening up the pencils.
And so that might mean that those profit margins are a little bit
thinner than they were in the past just to make sure that the
project goes forward, everything stays on budget. And so, it is more
of an examination and making sure that we are not graduating
those women and minority-owned contractors too quickly because
they need that support to really flourish long term.
Mr. GARBARINO. You touched a point that I was going to get
to next. Can you talk about how much materials have gone up and
what that is doing to the contractors that you work with?
Mr. ARNOLD. So right now we have not seen an effect on it as
far as projects being delayed or canceled but the material costs
have increased significantly. I attended strategic planning sessions
with our contractors actually this week, Monday and Tuesday, and
that was a large topic of discussion and whether or not they were
seeing actual projects delayed or canceled. Things are long lead
items right now and we have just seen huge increases on just the
raw materials that it takes to build these kinds of projects out. I
had a contractor tell me that they are looking at 60 weeks lead on
some of the equipment that they need for projects. So, it is going
to be a challenge I think coming up here in the near future.
Mr. GARBARINO. I appreciate the answer.
I am out of time so I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize the gentlelady from New York, Ms. Tenney, for
5 minutes.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Chairman Crow and Ranking Member
Young Kim, for holding this hearing today.
We hear a lot about the labor shortage facing our economy. Busi-
nesses of all sizes, including my business which is less than 100
employees. But we have been around for 76 years and we are expe-
riencing a real problem with getting workers. We are trying to ad-
vertise. We are doing extra incentives that we have not had to do
in the past in order to deal with the labor shortage that we have.
We are offering higher wages, expanded incentives as I said. And
this is happening not in just the southern tier and Central New
York, but it really happening all over our state as well. And prob-
ably all over the country.
As we know, this is a tight labor market. So, as the demand for
goods and services increases, so does the price. And so now we are
seeing higher prices and the cost of wages is rising. Americans are
receiving more money for their work which is a good thing, but this
creates this tension between the employers who obviously we like
to see a labor market where we can get more employees at a lower
rate, but at the same time, we love to pay our employees more be-
cause if we can charge more for our services, but with inflation af-
fecting us this has been a problem.
But I think government can respond to this. And I think one of
the things that we are seeing, and this is particularly true, is some
de-industrialized areas, we are seeing just an influx of supply of a
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cheap foreign labor that are often, especially in the tech industry,
and they are getting some of the benefits here that a lot of our
American companies are not. And I think this creates a disincen-
tive for employers to really invest in their workers and invest in
the technologies and the processes in the long-term growth that we
need to bring American workers back into the workforce. And so,
we have seen a lot of American workers kind of pushed to the side-
lines, many of them with skills that could be trailed but moving
unfortunately, maybe the lower skilled jobs are even choosing, un-
fortunately, not to do some of the jobs that we need them to do or
we could train them to do if we had a focus on the American labor
market. And also, on dealing with this issue.
And I think it is really important on the Small Business Com-
mittee that we are fighting for our small business community. And
especially, the employees of the small business community because
they are the heart of our businesses. They are the people that
make us grow. And in my business they are part of our family. I
mean, it is almost every year that we give out a 50-year pin to
someone who has worked in our business way back when my
grandfather hired them.
But to that, one of the things that I think has been really helpful
for us, and this is why I want to direct a question to Ms. Benck
and also to Mr. Brownlee from Aurora, we have wonderful commu-
nity colleges in Upstate New York and they have been providing
us with an opportunity to train a lot of our workforce. And this has
been a great situation. But in terms of job training, increased
wages and benefits and really focusing on a renewed commitment
to America workers and our communities, I think that is what we
need to start looking at.
And I wanted to again address my first question to Ms. Benck.
You raised the unfortunate issue of stigmas against skilled trade
in our country and this has been a barrier to entry particularly for
young people into stable, well-paying, long-term jobs. How, in your
opinion, does the frequent lack of career and technical training in
America’s secondary schools contribute to this phenomenon? If you
could just give us a brief, kind of restating what you have said in
the past.
Ms. BENCK. Well, I think it is a huge source of the problem. I
mean, it used to be when I was in high school, you know, there was
always a shop class; right? And those are gone out of most high
schools. So that is where AEDs putting their efforts now into
reaching back into those high schools that are still focusing on
technical trades and we are out there certifying them and orga-
nizing all the dealers in that specific area to get involved and ac-
tive so that we get those young people interested in our profession.
And I think the high schools need to do a much better job. And it
is not really just even the educational process. It is really the par-
ents that are a big problem. We have this view in this country that
everybody has got to go to college and if you do not send your kids
to college you are doing them a disservice. And unfortunately, I
think that has led to all of these very sometimes much higher pay-
ing jobs with no debt.
We have a little graph that we use at AED. It is based on aver-
ages. But it is literally like over $300,000 for the first 4 years of
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a young person’s life difference in cost of going to college and going
into debt versus going into one of our technician programs where
you get paid going along the way and you get out 2 years earlier
earning in a job. Three hundred thousand dollars in the first 4
years of someone’s life is absolutely enormous in terms of their
total economic future.
Ms. TENNEY. We could do a month on school loans and debt.
I hear about it a lot from students. But I urge them, as you said,
you have got a lot of trucks in the background in your screen there
and we are having a struggle getting a lot of people to become
truckers which is a great, well-paying job that is so necessary. And
we have had to employ some of our own people.
I just want to say, what do you think Congress——
Chairman CROW. The gentlelady’s time has expired.
Ms. TENNEY. That went quick. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
I will catch up with you in the next round.
Chairman CROW. Thank you.
So, we will start, while we are waiting on Ms. Houlahan from
Pennsylvania who is on her way to the hearing, I wanted to do a
follow up with Mr. Brownlee, Dr. Brownlee.
A little bit more on the students that you serve in Aurora, some
of those or many of those are underserved students. Can you touch
briefly on the impacts of transportation challenges and childcare
challenges that those students face when they are pursuing train-
ing, vocational, technical training at the Community College of Au-
rora?
Mr. BROWNLEE. Absolutely, Chair. Thank you, Chairman Crow
for the opportunity.
So, yes, as I shared earlier, 51 percent of our students are Pell
grant eligible and so as we think about low socioeconomic commu-
nities, over 90 countries represented here at the Community Col-
lege of Aurora so as we think about childcare, just as, for example,
60 percent of our students are female, so we think about the
amount of working mothers that we have here at the Community
College of Aurora, it tends to be a bit of a challenge and a barrier
for childcare, just available childcare. As we think about our serv-
ice area and the various challenges there are in some cases a 1 to
2 year waiting list just for individuals to be able to secure childcare
for themselves. And then that certainly becomes a barrier.
And so, as we think about transportation, broadband access, as
we have been working through the pandemic, it is one thing to
hand a student a laptop. It is a whole another thing to make an
assumption that that student has a home to plug that laptop into,
let alone has access, Internet access in their own private homes to
do the work of online education. And so, we are seeking and have
continued to find ways to have gap closures as we think about the
digital divide and providing Wi-Fi access. We certainly increased
our infrastructure here at the college at our locations. I have cre-
ated Wi-Fi accessible parking lots to create more access opportuni-
ties for our students. But certainly, certainly, certainly it has been
a challenge in our community to be able to meet the needs, create
workforce opportunities, and you are having to deal with just basic
food insecurities, housing insecurities, and the various challenges
that come about with low socioeconomic communities.
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I say that to all say, we also are grateful though for all the op-
portunities that have been provided from us from the U.S. Depart-
ment of Education and the U.S. Department of Labor, and certainly
here in the State of Colorado, to help us address these various
challenges for our students.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Dr. Brownlee.
I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Young Kim, for
5 minutes.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Sure. Thank you, Chairman.
And to our witnesses, as we continue to discuss the shortage in
skilled workforce and the need to bring in more qualified individ-
uals to work, could you, specifically Mr. Arnold and Ms. Benck in
your respective industries that you are in, can you talk about some
of the technical skills and qualifications you are looking for in an
employee and whether or not you anticipate those skills will be
changing in the next 5 to 10 years?
Ms. BENCK. Well, I guess I will go first. Oh, my God, the skill
levels that we are going to need in the future is a little bit fright-
ening when we look out 5 years from today. I mean, we are on the
verge of autonomous tractors. We have all the new fuel tech-
nologies that are coming, electrification, hydrogen, all kinds of
things that the manufacturers are working on today. So, the skill
level, like I said, right now our technicians really have a bachelor’s
degree in terms of the time that is put into their training, whether
it be from that 2-year technical program, and then what we do as
a dealership. But the skill levels and the different skills that are
going to be needed in the future are a little bit frightening and will
create a whole bunch of other challenges as we move into the fu-
ture.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Mr. Arnold? Mr. Arnold?
Mr. ARNOLD. Thank you, Ranking Member Young Kim.
The nice part I think right now is for somebody just looking to
enter into the apprenticeship program, all we really need is some-
body that has the good enough soft skills. A willingness to show up
to work, to be there on time, to work throughout their entire shift,
be productive, and learn from their mistakes. The training program
really is designed and engineered to make sure that at the comple-
tion of the 5-year program obtain all the certifications required to
be successful in the career. So, during that program they are going
to obtain welding certifications. Up front it is a big focus on safety,
so they are going to need OSHA 30-hour Safe Handling Refrig-
erants. And then all the various certifications that go along that is
needed by the industry, by our employers that communicate that
to us at our monthly JATC meetings.
I would agree with Ms. Benck that the future is going to involve
some changes and we are going to need to train folks on newer
technologies. Right now, we are focusing on making sure our mem-
bers are trained on variable refrigerant flow, variable refrigerant
volume systems which just were not all that common in the past.
Typically, you saw large scale hydronic systems with traditional
boilers and chillers. And so, some of that technology is already
starting to show itself and we have already engaged in that train-
ing. But where does hydrogen lead for building heat and in-home
heating? Geothermal is another viable technology that I could see
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used in the future. And so, what we want to do is continue to main-
tain that constant communication with our employers so they can
communicate exactly what our customers are looking for. What do
building owners want in their new buildings? And that way we can
adjust and be flexible to meet the industry needs.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you. It looks like Ms. Houlahan
showed up so I will yield my time.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
I will now recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms.
Houlahan, for 5 minutes.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. And apologies for being so late.
I appreciate the time of all of you all, and I appreciate all of your
testimonies today. And my questions are focusing on two areas.
One is on workforce development in the STEM area. And I want
to thank you as I mentioned for each of your testimonies in this
area. We need to very much swiftly address the workforce issues
that we are having, particularly in STEM and STEAM. I am an en-
gineer and so, of course, particularly interested in these issues.
And in specifically addressing the lack of gender diversity in these
fields.
So, one particularly important consideration is that which
women experience, and they experience significant challenges in re-
turning to the workforce after major life events. So, one in four
women tend to take a break in their career which is four times as
many women as men, and many of those women drop out of the
workforce as a result of that break in their career.
So, to Mr. Kane, in your testimony you emphasizer the need for
federal leadership to ensure greater flexibility to fill careers. Would
you be able to please elaborate on how providing funding for flexi-
ble workforce development opportunities, such as returnships that
would be created by the STEM Restart Act would help address the
workforce development and diversity challenges that our country
faces?
Mr. KANE. Yeah, Representative. You know, look, I think the re-
ality we are facing is startling where I think Mr. Brownlee said
that 60 percent of the candidates I think in his program, are about
60 percent women. In our research, under 15 percent of infrastruc-
ture workers are women. And so, there are huge gaps here even
for individuals who may get some of the credentials to actually
holding on to and filling these positions over time. And so, to the
extent that there is direct employer engagement, supportive serv-
ices as has already been talked about in terms of childcare, travel
assistance and so on, that is very important for women I would
argue in particular here. But I think flexibility also to the under-
standing as it relates to the skills conversation, you know, we can-
not just be looking at filling one type of job or one position but real-
ly revealing I think the pathways that can be quite nimble for pro-
spective workers, whether you are a woman, a person of color, or
so on. We need the 100 to 200 level skills here, too, that workers,
particularly as it relates to STEM, we found in our past research
that STEM skills are crucial, whether you are a water treatment
operator, whether you are a technician, whether you are an elec-
trician. These are common skills across so many of these different
occupations. And yet, the employers often are planning an isola-
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tion; right? They are often competing against each other. And from
the worker’s standpoint, they do not know, at least from the re-
search I have done, they do not know where to turn other than that
they are told to kind of train for one particular job with one em-
ployer. And that is just not the reality that is facing a lot of work-
ers now. And so, understanding how more and different types of
women, including women, can achieve those 100 to 200 level skills
is crucial. We have seen some innovative efforts across the country
that have tried to do this. The Infrastructure Academy concept is
one idea that has emerged in D.C. and also in Los Angeles on this
issue of creating a one-stop destination for workers, prospective
workers, for the younger workers, to actually understand what the
opportunities are and the skillsets that are needed, not just the in-
dividual credentials to fill these positions.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. And I look forward to following up
with you on Infrastructure Academy. The Infrastructure Academy
conversation because my follow-on question was going to be what
can we be doing to be more helpful, and what can the SBA be doing
as well?
With what remains of my time, I want to transition over to
stakeholder capitalism. I Co-Chair the Stakeholder Capitalism
Caucus with my friend and Representative Dean Phillips. And we
are trying to understand how businesses can better impact policies
to foster inclusion and generate longer lasting growth that benefits
all stakeholders rather than just exclusively the shareholders. We
believe that smarter business practices, such as providing work-
force development and career advancement, will be able to grow
businesses as well as grow people.
So, to all of you with the 47 seconds I have left, can any of you
speak to the importance of providing workforce development oppor-
tunities not only for the benefits of the individual but for the ben-
efit of the businesses at large?
Perhaps Mr. Brownlee.
Mr. BROWNLEE. Thank you very much, Representative.
I would say that stackable credentials now more than ever are
critical as we think about the advancements in workforce develop-
ment and training, we want to create very short-term programs
that can meet the needs of small businesses as quickly as possible
and create what can be a career growth trajectory for those individ-
uals towards increased opportunities for economic mobility for
them and their families. So, I would say stackable credentials, very
short-term credentials, and including very dynamic programs that
infuse industry experiences working with the likes of Mr. Arnold
and Ms. Benck to create these real-life experiences for students in
the classroom is critical.
Ms. HOULAHAN. I appreciate you all. It appears as though I
have run out of time and I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
I want to thank all of our witnesses again for being here today.
The current labor shortage is a top concern for American small
businesses. A business cannot thrive without properly skilled work-
ers. A drag on small businesses hinders our entire economy. Work-
force development can expand the pool of qualified candidates,
helping small firms fill their openings and grow their businesses.
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In turn, we can supply workers with the tools they need to get good
paying jobs and help them support their families. So, by
prioritizing workforce development, we can bolster small busi-
nesses, help American workers, and support communities.
And I also just wanted to make an additional comment on the
discussion that we had with Dr. Brownlee and the impact of afford-
able quality childcare on our workforce. One of the largest periods
of economic expansion in our nation’s history was after World War
II is large numbers of new workers entered our workforce. They
were largely women. Right now, we have millions of American
workers who cannot enter the workforce or cannot enter the work-
force at the right level because they cannot afford to or they just
cannot because they do not have childcare for their children. And
the bottom line is this actually disproportionately impacts women.
That is what the data show.
So, if we want to unleash vast swaths of economic activity and
grow our economy and help our businesses we will pass legislation
that will provide quality, affordable childcare to American families.
That is good for our economy. It is good for our families.
So, without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to submit
statements and supporting materials for the record.
And if there is no further business to come before the Committee,
without objection, we are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:29 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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File and source
- File
- CHRG-117hhrg46948.pdf
- Size
- 1,871,721 bytes
- SHA-256
- 161f5211ad6fff77745083d094c6c167c1040f525defb91434346b5eb01070d0
- Our copy
- CHRG-117hhrg46948.pdf
- Original
- www.govinfo.gov