SBA's Hurricane Helene Response: One Year Later (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, September 22, 2025)
Summary
The printed record of S. Hrg. 119–331, a field hearing of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship titled SBA's Hurricane Helene Response: One Year Later, held September 22, 2025 at the Henderson County Historic Courthouse, 1 Historic Courthouse Square, and printed in 2026. The committee met at 2:01 p.m. with Senator Ted Budd of North Carolina presiding as the only senator present. Four witnesses testified: Rebecca K. McCall, County Commissioner, Henderson County; Peter O'Leary, Mayor of Chimney Rock Village; David N. Jackson, President and CEO of the Boone Area Chamber of Commerce; and James Chris Stallings, Associate Administrator of the U.S. Small Business Administration. Each witness's prepared statement and responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Markey follow in the record.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“SBA's Hurricane Helene Response: One Year Later (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, September 22, 2025).”
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S. HRG. 119–331
SBA’S HURRICANE HELENE RESPONSE: ONE YEAR
LATER
FIELD HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
SEPTEMBER 22, 2025
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63–079 WASHINGTON : 2026
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Chair
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts, Ranking Member
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
RAND PAUL, Kentucky JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
TODD YOUNG, Indiana CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
TED BUDD, North Carolina JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
JON HUSTED, Ohio
MEREDITH WEST, Republican Staff Director
SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
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CONTENTS
SEPTEMBER 22, 2025
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
The Honorable Ted Budd, U.S. Senator from North Carolina ............................. 1
WITNESSES
The Honorable Rebecca K. McCall, County Commissioner, Henderson County,
North Carolina ..................................................................................................... 3
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 5
The Honorable Peter O’Leary, Mayor, Chimney Rock Village, North Carolina . 8
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 10
Mr. David N. Jackson, President and CEO, Boone Area Chamber of Com-
merce, Boone, North Carolina ............................................................................. 11
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 13
Mr. James ‘‘Chris’’ Stallings, Associate Administrator, U.S. Small Business
Administration ..................................................................................................... 26
Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 29
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
The Honorable Rebecca K. McCall
Responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Markey ................. 37
The Honorable Peter O’Leary
Responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Markey ................. 38
Mr. David N. Jackson
Responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Markey ................. 39
Mr. James ‘‘Chris’’ Stallings
Responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Markey ................. 41
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SBA’S HURRICANE HELENE RESPONSE: ONE
YEAR LATER
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2025
UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:01 p.m., in Hender-
son County Historic Courthouse, 1 Historic Courthouse Square,
Hon. Tedd Budd, presiding.
Present: Senator Budd.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BUDD
Senator BUDD. Good afternoon, everyone. I call the Committee on
Small Business and Entrepreneurship to order. Today’s hearing
comes in a somber moment. Almost one year ago today, Hurricane
Helene made landfall in Florida before continuing northward and
devastating Western North Carolina.
Many of us here today personally experienced the devastation
that storm brought. Many areas were hit with high winds, and re-
ceived 20 to 30 or more inches of rain, leading to catastrophic flood-
ing and mudslides that tragically claimed the lives of 108 North
Carolinians. Altogether, a total of 11 states were impacted, and He-
lene caused almost $80 billion in damage, making it one of the
worst hurricanes to hit the United States, ranking alongside Hurri-
cane Sandy and Hurricane Katrina.
Here in North Carolina, 39 counties were eligible for federal as-
sistance following the storm. Those counties comprised 40 percent
of the state’s population and 45 percent of the state’s GDP. In the
aftermath, our state’s disaster survivors started down the chal-
lenging road of rebuilding.
I want to say how proud I am of our state for coming together
in this time of need and the sheer tenacity of everyone out here in
Western North Carolina, who lent a hand and helped folks in dire
straits. Frankly, I wish the same could have been said for our fed-
eral government, but unfortunately, under President Biden, they
were unprepared and asleep at the wheel.
The Small Business Administration, or the SBA, provides dis-
aster loans and have been crucial to many Americans recovering
from natural disasters, and North Carolinians in the wake of He-
lene were no different. The SBA gives eligible individuals access to
disaster recovery loans up to $500,000, and eligible businesses
loans up to $2 million for physical damage and economic injury.
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These loans help restore homes to their pre-disaster condition,
and help businesses replace equipment and maintain payroll. Un-
fortunately, due to the blunders of the Biden’s SBA, too many
North Carolinians were unable to find the help they needed to sim-
ply rebuild and regain their livelihoods.
The prior administration mismanaged the SBA’s Disaster Loan
Program by issuing irresponsible rules and dramatically increasing
the cost of making and administering disaster loans. Moreover, as
SBA drew closer to exhausting the funds it had on hand for these
loans. The staff at the wheel of the Biden Administration failed in
one of their most basic duties, and that is notifying Congress that
funding was running low. This led to an unacceptable 66-day short-
fall, lasting from October 12th through December 20th of last year.
Here in North Carolina, 97 percent of business loan applicants
were impacted by the shortfall. For more than two months, the fed-
eral government left survivors in North Carolina on their own with
nothing but bootstraps and their community to assist in rebuilding.
We must ensure that a crisis like this will never happen again.
This SBA program is instrumental in the rebuilding process, and
once it was back to working, it has served over 3,500 North Caro-
linians following Hurricane Helene. And that’s why, earlier this
year, I introduced the Disaster Loan Accountability and Reform Act
to create more safeguards against a future shortfall.
This bill would require annual appropriations to SBA’s disaster
loan program, inform Congress when funds are low, and increase
reporting to Congress. I want to thank my colleagues on the Small
Business Committee for working in a bipartisan manner to get this
bill through committee.
I’m grateful for the many changes the Trump Administration has
made to address the problems in this program since January, in-
cluding improvements to reporting, local coordination, and con-
stituent services. However, we’re still recovering from the after-
math of Helene. It’s critical to understand the impacts of the short-
fall last year, and what steps can be taken to further safeguard dis-
aster survivors after being left without aid again.
Returning Western North Carolina to normal following Helene
hinges on our federal government and its agencies working in co-
ordination with one another. I will continue to engage with each of
our cabinet agencies to ensure our federal government is respon-
sive to the needs of Western North Carolina.
I want to thank our witnesses on both panels today, and I’m hon-
ored that you’ve decided to join us to speak on the efficacy and
unity of SBA’s programs and ways to improve. I look forward to
your testimony. And before we start our testimony, I ask unani-
mous consent that the witnesses’s full statements be included in
the record. Without objection, so ordered.
For a quick run of show, I want to note that each of the wit-
nesses will have five minutes to give their remarks, and then, we’ll
turn to questions. I’ll introduce each of you, and then recognize you
for five minutes for your testimony. And we do have two panels
today. So, after our first panel, we’ll take a brief moment to let
them and get up, and we’ll have our second panel seated.
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And we’ll now proceed with our first panel. We’ll start with Com-
missioner Rebecca McCall, who currently serves as a Henderson
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County Commissioner. Commissioner McCall was sworn in on De-
cember 3rd, 2018, and is serving in her second term as Commis-
sioner. She served as the Chair of the Henderson County Board of
Commissioners when Hurricane Helene hit Western North Caro-
lina.
She’s a Henderson County native, and holds a bachelor’s degree
in business administration for Montreat College. We thank you for
being here, and you’re recognized for five minutes for your testi-
mony.
STATEMENT OF MRS. REBECCA K. MCCALL, COUNTY COMMIS-
SIONER, HENDERSON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS,
HENDERSONVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA
Mrs. MCCALL. Thank you for having me. September 27th, 2024,
will be a day we long remember in Henderson County and Western
North Carolina. Hurricane Helene hit us with full force. Not only
was there enormous amount of rainfall that resulted in flooding as
deep as 30 feet in some areas, there were also 2,000 landslides, 80
of which were in Henderson County. The landslides uprooted giant
trees and dislodged mammoth boulders that took out everything in
its path. In the Hickory Nut Gorge area, the river grew three times
wider than normal. Homes and businesses along the river were
washed away, as well as the land they once stood on. The power
outages that lasted up to two weeks in most areas registered to one
and a half million in the multi-county area. With 95 percent of
Henderson County affected, more than 425 miles of roads and 200-
plus bridges were severely damaged in Henderson County alone.
All of this has left an impact on our businesses. Those that were
not severely damaged by flooding or fallen trees were still affected
by power outages and, most importantly, loss of business because
there were no customers. Even after power was restored, the water
receded and the main roads opened up, we were left with the clean-
up and rebuilding that continues today, one year later. As a result,
many businesses lost weeks of sales.
Having been a small business owner, I’m aware that one week
of slow business is tolerable, two weeks is concerning but three
weeks and beyond can be devastating. There was also the ripple
down effect where loss of sales led to loss of inventory purchases,
which affects other businesses, layoffs of employees, and for the
county, reduced sales tax income.
Within a few days, organizations showed up to offer assistance.
SBA was one of those. We quickly established a disaster relief cen-
ter (DRC). SBA had a presence at the DRC to answer questions
and assist in application filing for loans. Once we opened those
doors, SBA representatives were there to speak with residents
about the possibility of loans to rebuild. Our staff conveyed how
SBA was there, eager and ready to assist those in need. The staff
who manned the table were friendly, accommodating, and helpful.
We commend SBA on their presence and willingness to help, and
are grateful for their continued support all these many months
later. The benefits of the SBA program, though, are numbered. The
paperwork is straightforward and the low-interest rate terms are
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favorable. But when asking people why they didn’t apply, the big-
gest issue we heard was that these are loans, not grants. While re-
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covering, many individuals and businesses didn’t feel comfortable
taking on another loan that they would have to pay back, especially
as they were uncertain about their source of income in the coming
months. Some businesses chose not to reopen. Some have closed
after reopening. Some are still undergoing repairs. Some embraced
the opportunity to become better than they were before and are
thriving once more but still working to make up the loss. Even nine
months after the storm, half of the businesses in Western North
Carolina were still earning 20 percent less than they were before
Helene. The damage to small businesses in the county is hard to
quantify, but we do know that across Western North Carolina, 96
percent were impacted. This includes 83 percent that had to close
for some period of time. In Henderson County, specifically, of 130
businesses we have data on, over $9 million has been reported in
damages.
Henderson County’s economy changed completely in the after-
math of the storm. The infrastructure of the region was not capable
of supporting the usual fall tourists, and the local businesses suf-
fered a loss of revenue with $10.5 million lost in the agritourism
business alone. While our TDA did a great job reminding folks that
there were areas of the county open for business, we lost over $4
million in stored apples that were ready for distribution. The hesi-
tancy to use SBA loans for some of these losses speaks to locals’
fear of taking on debt in such a challenging economic situation.
Adjustments to the SBA, including the addition of grant opportu-
nities or loan forgiveness for businesses rebuilding and continuing
to operate post-natural disaster would have increased the number
of businesses turning to SBA for assistance.
In conclusion, we are extremely grateful for the role SBA played
in our recovery from Hurricane Helene. We have learned many les-
sons from the storm of how to be better prepared to support busi-
nesses in the wake of natural disasters, and we hope that we can
work together with the SBA to implement these changes to better
support our future disasters. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mrs. McCall follows.]
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Senator BUDD. Thank you, Commissioner. Now we turn to Mayor
Peter O’Leary. Peter is the owner of Bubba O’Leary’s General
Store, and also serves as the mayor of Chimney Rock Village.
Mayor O’Leary has owned Bubba O’Leary’s General Store with his
wife, Ann, for 33 years. And thank you for being here, and you’re
recognized for five minutes for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MR. PETER O’LEARY, OWNER, BUBBA
O’LEARY’S GENERAL STORE & MAYOR, CHIMNEY ROCK VIL-
LAGE, CHIMNEY ROCK, NORTH CAROLINA
Mr. O’LEARY. Thank you, Senator. As you said, I’m a small busi-
ness owner in Chimney Rock Village. I own three retail buildings.
Two of them operate as the general store and one of them I rent
out to another small business owner.
Hurricane Helene severely damaged two of my buildings and
completely destroyed the other one. The buildings were assessed at
some point by SBA after we filled out an application for assistance
in October of ’24. And I was not notified when the assessment was
done, but I did receive a phone call shortly after that November
6th, 2024, from an SBA staffer with questions about our applica-
tion. We were approved shortly after that, and everything seemed
to be going extremely well.
Our application to SBA is for the funding to rebuild the de-
stroyed building. My other buildings and contents were also in-
cluded, and we did need that financial assistance to do some re-
pairs and replace contents in both of them as well.
We knew at the time that no funds were available, and we were
told that when we filled out the application. But we were assured
that funds would be available soon, and they were, I believe, in
January. So, we were excited to move forward.
Our issues started after that, basically, in February of 2025,
when I started reaching out to the SBA officers to answer their
questions, but also try to get my questions answered. Every few
weeks, I would receive a notification that my case manager had
been changed. I would then try to reach out with a phone call and/
or email to my new case manager with questions, but would not
hear from them or would get a very slow response. Then after a
few weeks, I would be notified that I had a new case manager
came. It became very frustrating.
Over about a six-month period, I had five different case man-
agers. During this time there were several requests for information
from SBA, which raised many questions from me about their proce-
dures, and how much I would be allowed to borrow, and other
issues. Many times, I would have questions and would reach out
to the case manager and not get the information I needed.
My impression of the process was that many of these case man-
agers were not correctly trained or did not have the experience
needed to respond to my questions. I have worked in a previous life
as a bank loan officer and are very familiar with commercial lend-
ing. It was frustrating to try and make building plans and business
decisions based on information I was told, and then be notified that
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something had changed or was not being allowed. This would re-
quire me to attempt to clarify information and ask questions, but
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a lot of times I wouldn’t get a timely response, or I’d have to deal
with a new case manager and bring them up to speed.
The whole process has now worked out, thankfully, but it did
take about seven to eight months, longer than it realistically
should in my opinion. I’ve heard similar stories from other busi-
nesses in Chimney Rock Village who have been very frustrated
with the length of time necessary for their SBA applications to be
processed, and the confusing information that’s given to them re-
garding their applications and requests for funding.
So, I’ll just reiterate that I believe there’s a lack of training, and
I think that’s really the main issue that I noticed as a business
owner is that people are not able to respond to the questions, espe-
cially in a timely manner. And I just feel like with better manage-
ment, maybe that problem could be solved. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. O’Leary follows.]
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Senator BUDD. Now, we turn to David Jackson, who serves as
President and CEO of the Boone Area of Chamber of Commerce in
Boone, North Carolina. And earlier this year, Mr. Jackson was rec-
ognized as a Community Advocate of the Year by North Carolina
Rural Center. He holds a Bachelor of Science from Appalachian
State University. It’s a great school. We thank you for being here,
and you’re recognized for five minutes for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MR. DAVID M. JACKSON, PRESIDENT & CEO,
BOONE AREA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, BOONE, NORTH
CAROLINA
Mr. JACKSON. Thank you, it’s great to see a fellow Mountaineer
here as well today. Senator, thank you for bringing this Committee
to Western North Carolina, and spending time in this beautiful
area of the state. In the testimony that I submitted, I detailed
some of the positive aspects of the response with SBA and FEMA
in the wave of Hurricane Helene, along with opportunities for im-
provement.
I’d like to build on those comments this afternoon, by first reit-
erating sincere gratitude for the SBA and FEMA field agents that
arrived in our communities to staff the business and disaster re-
source centers. These workers left their families to come assist
ours. They brought empathy and compassion along with the seal of
the United States government, and they helped our citizens and
business owners understand a language and a process that was
new, confusing, and at times, very frustrating.
These agents were the conduit for over $85,000,000 in allocated
funding through SBA businesses and EIDL loans in Severity 1
Counties as defined by the Economic Development Partnership of
North Carolina (EDPNC) and their Helene Business Loss Assess-
ment Report. That represents just more than half of the dollars
that have been allocated to Western North Carolina to support our
small businesses after the storm. The estimated economic loss in
the fourth quarter of last year for the region was calculated in that
same EDPNC report at $1,800,000,000. The philanthropic dollars
that have been raised nearly match the SBA’s deployed loan pay-
outs, but don’t come close to satisfying the loss of revenue, or sta-
bility, our small businesses saw disappear over the course of about
72 hours.
$1,800,000,000 in loss cannot be absorbed just through loans to
the businesses that lost inventory, revenue predictability, staffing,
and core infrastructure. Many of those impacted businesses were
not finished paying off COVID-era loans when the storm hit and
the thought of more debt was daunting and simply not economi-
cally responsible. So, some just closed.
These small businesses are the heartbeat of the economy your
Committee aspires to support. We need diversity and available dis-
aster funding for businesses to restore savings, to supplement
losses not covered by insurance, and to restore economic stability
for our local governments, all of which suffered sales and occu-
pancy tax declines during one of the most profitable quarters of our
calendar.
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Philanthropic support for businesses has come from fundraising
from a number of organizations, individual donors, and local cham-
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bers of commerce. The Boone Area Chamber Foundation has raised
over $1,300,000 in hurricane relief, the majority of which has been
deployed through Business Disaster Resiliency Grants across
Watauga, Ashe, and Avery counties.
We will release a fourth round of that funding next month, cen-
tered mostly around storm-related revenue loss. Chambers across
Western North Carolina have worked with partners to generate
north of $6,000,000 in direct business disaster support grants.
Partners like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Mountain BizWorks,
Dogwood Health Trust through a partnership with Governor Stein
and the North Carolina General Assembly, made grant funds avail-
able.
To small businesses, the economic ramifications of this region
would be far greater if not for those efforts, but don’t come close
to covering the loss. As I bring my remarks to a close, I offer our
collective partnership. My chamber colleagues and I are eager to
participate in conversations about what our business community
has experienced.
We’re eager to strategize and create a small business disaster
support playbook that can be replicated in communities like ours
across the state and the country. We feel strongly that funding
must come from blended sources, and it must feature creative ave-
nues for deployment. As we see, not all programs fit all businesses.
We’re ready to help the SBA lean into their preparedness culture
that they’ve tried to create, but honestly hasn’t gotten the traction
it deserves because, frankly, that’s not how our society is wired. We
encourage you to bet on small businesses. It’s the Main Street cof-
fee shops, the outfitters, the art galleries, the retailers that make
our communities different than suburbia.
Many visitors use the Blue Ridge Parkway as their escape, and
I thank you and your staff for your leadership in prioritizing park-
way repairs and balancing the timing of that work along with the
Great American Outdoors Act projects that our region whole-
heartedly supports; work that will keep the parkway available for
generations to come. There is no more unique connector of our com-
munities than the Blue Ridge Parkway, and the $1,300,000,000 of
annual economic impact this national park generates is essential
for our region’s economic prosperity.
I conclude with this comment from a local business owner in
Watauga County that summarizes the mood of the moment, and
certainly, captures some of what we felt collectively during the two
months that you referenced a moment ago, that last year, SBA was
without disaster funding.
He said, ‘‘While I recognized the challenges our leaders face, I re-
mind them that business is not about a vote. It’s not about the next
election. It’s about our lives. And I’d like them to recognize that we
represent a real and meaningful part of our economy.’’
Thank you for your opportunity to speak today, and look forward
to additional questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Jackson follows.]
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Senator BUDD. Thank you. And I thank each of you for your tes-
timony. I recognize myself for some questions. As we’re coming up
on the one-year anniversary that’s actually this Thursday night
into Friday the 27th, we’re all reflecting on the horrors that were
brought by the storm. And the scars left by Helene are innumer-
able, but I’m proud of how we’re coming together as a community
to support each other in rebuilding after the storm. So, with this
in mind, would you walk us through the immediate aftermath of
the storm and what the federal response was like on the ground?
Commissioner McCall, let’s start with you.
Mrs. MCCALL. Well, frankly, I wasn’t even thinking about the
federal government at the time. I was thinking about how to get
from my house to downtown because every road was blocked by ei-
ther fallen trees, or fallen power lines, or flooded, or one way or
the other. It took hours, and hours, and hours, to clear a path just
to get from one spot to another. But we did come together, and we
did take care of each other, and our EMS was amazing. They had
prepared days ahead of time, and they were in prominent locations
so that they could respond quickly. And our fire departments had
gone door to door previously, days before to evacuate people that
we thought needed to be out of harm’s way and that saved many,
many, many lives. We were setting up shelters; we were looking for
generators; we were doing everything that we could think of just
to survive. I’m going to tell on our county manager; he broke into
Ingles and took food off the shelves just to take our EMS facility
so that those people would have something to eat. But then we saw
a response from numerous organizations. It was volunteers, it was
nonprofits, it was churches, it was people coming from all over
bringing things, and bringing food trucks, and helping us get
through each day, one day at a time. FEMA did show up. SBA
showed up maybe a week, I think it was a week later. It’s hard to
put in my mind the time elements, but everybody did start to come.
They had to learn the lay of the land, though. They were unfa-
miliar with who we were, and what was going on. But they were
here, they wanted to help, they wanted to respond. But we felt a
little bit like we needed to—they expected us to cater to them, and
we did not have time to do that. So, we said, you know, here’s what
it is. Figure it out yourself. Tell us what you need. We’ll find the
best way to help you get what you need. So, we did set up a dis-
tribution or a disaster relief center. We turned our college parking
lot over to FEMA, and they set up all of their places to stay there.
They took it over. I remember seeing all these trucks show up, and
it was like a convoy of trucks, and they were pulling these trailers
that looked like shower trailers. And I was going, ‘‘They’re here.
The shower trailers are here.’’ But they were only for FEMA em-
ployees. They weren’t for our public. So, we had to wait for others
to show up. But like I said, they came, they did their thing, they
went door to door, they put flyers on doors. But it was more, we
took care of ourselves, we took care of each other, and that’s how
we got through this, and that’s how we’re continuing to get through
this.
Senator BUDD. Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Mayor?
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Mr. O’LEARY. Well, the initial response was certainly much more
local. As Commissioner said, the volunteer fire departments did a
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fantastic job, the county officials. We had a lot of out-of-town peo-
ple and just local citizens, for that matter, bring equipment in to
help out. SBA and FEMA did show up well. FEMA more specifi-
cally, but it was the very early—I don’t mean to cast too many as-
persions on, but the very early was more like almost a PR-type ap-
pearance for FEMA. But they did show up and start going around
and assessing the damage. But I think one thing you have to sort
of keep in mind is that it’s kind of a multi-layered approach. I
mean, local obviously is going to be the first ones to respond. And,
honestly, in my opinion, the federal government, FEMA, SBA, their
response does come several weeks and maybe even several months
later as you’re trying to rebuild more. The biggest problem that we
had, and I’ll switch my mayor hat, was there is a tremendous
amount of cleanup that has to be done after an event like this right
away. And you can’t wait for—you can’t even wait a day. I mean,
people need to have roads cleared, driveways cleared, access for
safety, and you know, just for the well-being of the public. So, that
falls on the local governments. It falls on Chimney Rock Village, for
example. But the problem that we faced was that’s extremely ex-
pensive for a small community like ours. And FEMA is set up basi-
cally as a reimbursement agency for those types of things. And that
moves extremely slow. So, I think a lot of your small communities
faced a huge financial crunch trying to pay these local contractors
who are doing a phenomenal job of cleaning, but then you turn
around for funding to pay for that from FEMA, and it takes quite
a bit of time. And I hope that—I do understand that maybe some
changes are being made along those lines, but for as far as the fed-
eral response, that’s really the biggest hurdle that I saw was just
the way that the funding goes to reimburse the communities. It
maybe should be funding up front for some of these immediate
needs.
Senator BUDD. I think it’s helpful.
Mr. JACKSON. Yeah. So, I’ll start this off in a couple of different
ways. First off, I remember our FEMA administrator’s name, Jake
Kwiatkowski. He was the first person to reach out to us. I found
out very quickly that in order to get FEMA or SBA staff into the
community, that required a reservation authorization number from
the hotel. If they were going to come, and stay, and be deployed,
that that confirmation number was what triggered the deployment.
So, our office ended up coordinating about 100 different federal per-
sonnel for the local area that way, and we were glad to be able to
do so. And I’m appreciative that because of the storm’s impact on
the football game, we had enough hotel space for that to occur.
There was some additional confusion about the setup of the Busi-
ness Resource Center and the Disaster Resource Center. They were
co-located in a facility that we managed, which we were happy to
do. But who was taking the lead on that? And that’s where Jake
was able to come in and say, you know, here is the process. That
facility had to be inspected twice by two different agencies before
full deployment could occur. And that ended up taking a few extra
days to get that resource up. I will say, though, that the staff that
we had in Boone, working out of that center, seemed to be specifi-
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cally trained for some key things. And I go back to Jake for a sec-
ond. He was a former firefighter with a background in building,
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planning, and inspections. That became incredibly helpful dealing
with the impact of the disaster that we had on our side. And again,
I mentioned it in my testimony, the fact that the folks that got de-
ployed were disaster survivors. We had folks from Houston, Puerto
Rico, Florida, that were able to teach a language that people did
not understand and brought some compassion along with that. So,
that part of our experience was very helpful. Our FEMA staff and
SBA staff got in line with our emergency management very quick-
ly. And Will Holt was able to make a lot of the decisions and make
sure that there were people that were going out with those folks.
Because one of the first things that was shared with us was that
this disaster brought a topographical challenge that nobody had
ever seen before. And they just didn’t know where to go or how to
access some of those areas. So, that I would totally agree with, our
local responders were essential in making sure that the federal re-
sponse could get deployed accurately.
Senator BUDD. That’s very helpful. You know, Mr. Mayor, when
you were speaking, it reminded me of Ronald Reagan’s nine famous
words, ‘‘I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.’’ But hope-
fully, with some reforms, we can actually be a little more helpful.
This is very good, appreciate that. You know, as a lot of you know,
the Biden Administration made a number of changes to SBA’s dis-
aster loan program, including increasing the unsecured loan limit
and changing the ‘‘credit elsewhere’’ standards. These changes, cou-
pled with a lack of Congressional notifications when funding for the
disaster loan program was almost exhausted, led to a 66-day short-
fall in the program. And this is just days after the storm in early
October. During the shortfall in North Carolina alone, over 900
businesses were left waiting to receive loan approvals and disburse-
ments, thus delaying their recovery by over two months. Mr.
O’Leary, can you talk about the impacts that shortfall had on your
business and community?
Mr. O’LEARY. Well, it affected people’s planning. I guess, for the
individual businesses. We were, like I said, able to get the applica-
tions done fairly quickly. So, that response was good. And then,
even the follow-up to me personally was pretty quick, I thought.
And I was approved for the loans that they said, but they said
there’s no money. So, that was extremely frustrating. And then
when you’re working with—obviously, you have to work with a
builder if you’re rebuilding, or you know, spending the money in
some fashion. And those people are asking what your plans are or
when you can start, and you don’t know. There’s just so much un-
certainty.
Senator BUDD. Do you know how long after the storm of Sep-
tember 27th that you actually began the paperwork process?
Mr. O’LEARY. We did in, probably, mid-October. I don’t know the
exact date, but yeah, mid-October. And we were actually approved,
I did have an interview on November 6th, and shortly after that,
our application was approved, but approved and no funding.
Senator BUDD. Which didn’t happen until earlier this year of
2025, the funding. In North Carolina, we’re entrepreneurs at heart,
including in rebuilding. Mr. Jackson, the Boone Area Chamber of
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Commerce set up its own program, I think you addressed that a
few moments ago, for business resiliency grants. Could you talk
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more about how these grants bridge the gap during this time with
no SBA funding, and how it continues to help recovery today?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes. Thank you for acknowledging that. There was
no gap to bridge. It was the money. We were very quick to find out
that through the delay process, and the SBA loan program, cer-
tainly that happened, as you mentioned right after the storm was
over. We found also that the timing of insurance payouts that
weren’t coming, it seemed like everything was a negative answer.
The State of North Carolina was working through the General As-
sembly on their own ideas around grants, but nobody’s got any-
thing that looks like that, from a governmental standpoint, that is
a true grant. I think one of the unfortunate things about the timing
of this, too, is that this disaster occurred close enough to the
COVID pandemic that that’s what people were looking for. The
amount of times I heard, ‘‘Are we going to get a PPP loan? Are we
going to get something that behaves like that?’’ And the behavior,
yes, that makes a lot of sense. Some sort of forgivable loan that has
some performance tied to it could have been the right recipe. But
without that, not only our Chamber, but chambers across the re-
gion, and other partners like Mountain BizWorks, and others, had
no other choice but to try to get the philanthropic dollars. And
that’s where, I think, there’s a silver lining here in just finding out
how much people care about our region. Those dollars came in from
all over the country, all over the world for that matter. And they
were small, they were large payouts, they were philanthropic agen-
cies that got behind that work, but they wanted to see the small
communities that we all represent here survive this. So, we were
able to put together an initial payout of $206,000 that went directly
to our early childhood businesses and the families that have kids
in those programs. We paid off tuition for the month of October, be-
cause we knew that families needed some money to make quick re-
pairs, but we needed that industry stabilized. Soon after that,
we’ve deployed a little over $1,000,000 dollars now in grants—
small end, $500, top end, about $25,000. But you hear from busi-
nesses that had the foundation of their business knocked off, the
building off of the foundation, or major infrastructure hurdles, that
a $25,000 grant’s not going to touch. So, it gets back to the broader
picture of how we are looking at business in terms of the disaster.
We’ve got good programs for the individuals. A lot of these individ-
uals have family businesses that are almost symbiotic. And that’s
where we are eager to have some conversation about what comes
next, and how can we have something that’s readily available
deployable by communities for these instances.
Senator BUDD. Thank you. The SBA’s Office of Inspector General
and the U.S. Government Accountability Office have both reported
that the SBA fails to effectively reach rural communities following
a disaster. After Hurricane Helene, these problems were only com-
pounded by downed telephone lines and little to no internet service.
Mr. O’Leary, you were not only a leader of the community, but you
were also a small business owner. So, how did you learn about
SBA’s products, especially in those early days, and what sort of
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outreach do they do in your community to let you know who they
were and how they could help?
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Mr. O’LEARY. We learned primarily about SBA through the
FEMA representative. So, if you were a business and you went to
the FEMA representative and filled out—they encouraged you to
fill out applications and we did, too. We encouraged all of our resi-
dents to fill them out. And if you were a business, they directed
you to SBA. Our problem was SBA didn’t have an office set up in
Chimney Rock Village. They were mostly set up—the two I remem-
ber were in Asheville and Hendersonville, which at the time, we
had to go—we couldn’t go directly there because, like you said, the
roads being out. So, we had to drive about an hour drive, an hour
and a half drive, to get to those offices. Eventually, they did send
some representatives down after—I can’t remember the exact time-
frame, but it would’ve been in the January or February timeframe,
that they sent SBA officers.
Senator BUDD. FEMA was in the early weeks?
Mr. O’LEARY. FEMA was much earlier. We had FEMA represent-
atives in mid-October that were down there talking to residents.
Senator BUDD. And so, in that early period, FEMA was telling
you about SBA, but it was months before SBA came to you?
Mr. O’LEARY. Right. And FEMA said, fill out a FEMA applica-
tion, but then if you were a business, you had to take that next
step and fill out an SBA application.
Senator BUDD. Thank you. The U.S. Small Business Administra-
tion provides loans to renters, homeowners, and businesses fol-
lowing a disaster. SBA established a field presence in North Caro-
lina shortly after the storm to provide in-person consultations for
these types of loans. We’ve talked about that just a second ago, al-
though it wasn’t always where the need was. So, Commissioner
McCall, I know that Hendersonville had an active recovery site
with multiple agencies. Do you think this was beneficial? And what
was your experience in coordinating with the federal resources?
Mrs. MCCALL. Yes, it was very beneficial. We were lucky enough
to find a place. It was previously had been a grocery store, so it
was a large space that we were able to separate and have FEMA
on one side, and our local nonprofits and other organizations on an-
other side. Even our DHS was there for a period of time for the
SNAP project. Having everything under one roof was helpful be-
cause people could come, and if they met with say, FEMA, and
FEMA said you needed to meet with SBA, then it was all right
there together. One of the problems that I think needs to be ad-
dressed is all the application filing. I mean, it is all the same gov-
ernment, and there were multiple applications that had to be filed.
And if you didn’t dot an I or cross the T, you were automatically
denied. I actually think this goes—there’s a movie about this—but
I actually believe that they’re trying to say no first, and get people
to appeal. And a lot of people didn’t know that they could appeal,
and so they just went away. But if anybody contacted me, I said
appeal, appeal, appeal again, appeal, appeal a third time, appeal
a fourth time. One of the organizations that was there represented
the Commissioner of Insurance for North Carolina, and insurance
really was concerning because the insurance denials were worse
than the FEMA denials, I believe. There was a family that I know
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of that their whole entire house flooded from raw sewage. And the
sewage came up from inside of the house. And they had flood insur-
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24
ance, but they were denied by their insurance company because the
sewage did not come in from outside. If it had come in from out-
side, then their insurance would’ve paid. So, they had to turn to
FEMA. Again, they were denied. I think they eventually got
$20,000 for their $400,000 house that had to be completely rebuilt
inside. And if it hadn’t been for our local churches and other orga-
nizations to help them, they probably would never have been able
to rebuild their house, but they’re back in it today. But it took
months, and months, and months, and months, to get there. But
I think having all those organizations together to support each
other, and especially a one-stop-shop for those who needed the help
was very beneficial.
Senator BUDD. Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. O’Leary, from
your testimony, it’s clear that you experienced a lot of problems on
the back end of your loan. Even once the shortfall ended and there
was the funding, I think we can all agree that a couple of weeks
is too long to wait for simple questions to be answered, and eight
months is too long to receive disbursements for your loan. So, how
did the long wait time impact your ability as a business to recover
from Helene plan for the future of your business?
Mr. O’LEARY. Well, it just put everything in limbo in the sense
that we couldn’t make firm plans. We thought that we were moving
forward with the funding. We thought we’d been approved, actu-
ally, right up front. And then, once the money became available, we
were asked to provide additional documentation. We were given ad-
ditional clarifications, and it became very confusing. And that’s
why there were so many questions that I had for my case man-
agers. And it just slowed the whole process down. I mean, it essen-
tially added a good six to seven months to our rebuild time. And
we are presently looking at receiving funding within the next cou-
ple of weeks and starting the building. But you know, we were hop-
ing to start back in March or April. And so, it’s just put that much
of a delay on it. So, for a seasonal business like Chimney Rock Vil-
lage, and a lot of Western North Carolina, we are seasonal, if you
don’t do it at the right time of year, then you’re liable to not only
miss this season, but maybe the next season. So, that’s why, of
course, for us, timing is very important. But you know, it could
have easily happened—this funding could have happened six
months ago if things had been moving a little faster.
Senator BUDD. That’s very helpful. Thank you. You know, our
second panel has the SBA’s Associate Administrator for the Office
of Disaster Recovery and Resilience. So, I’d like to ask two things
from each of you all while you’re still here, given that you’ve got
a unique opportunity to give feedback. First, what’s your top line
message to SBA about Hurricane Helene, specifically? And second,
if you could ask SBA to fix one thing, what would it be. Commis-
sioner, I’ll start with you. Now’s your chance.
Mrs. MCCALL. Make the process simpler, I think. We were speak-
ing earlier in the room we were waiting in, if anytime you go to—
well, Mr. Jackson brought up the example of FAFSA. FAFSA used
to be the hardest application to fill out ever made, but I helped my
granddaughter this year, and it was just a matter of minutes, and
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it was all complete. And because they were able to pull from all the
information that was already there, why can’t the process be as
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25
simple with other applications? But also, loans are great, but SBA
needs to look at it from the small business perspective, and realize
that these people needed help recovering, and they were already
paying off a mortgage. And if they lost the business, if the business
floated down the river, then there’s nothing left of that business to
even have a loan for. And then they’re stuck with that loan, and
then they’re facing the possibility of bankruptcy. So, there needs to
be a possibility of offering grants, or forgivable loans, or whatever
it is. But there’s got to be more to offer through the SBA than just
the loan.
Senator BUDD. Thank you. Mr. O’Leary?
Mr. O’LEARY. I would say I would echo that, simplify the process.
And by that, I mean also cover all the basics upfront. I mean, as
I said, I was a commercial loan officer years ago, and when you’re
approved for a loan, then you’re approved for the loan, and you
know up front what the money’s for. And I felt like things kept
changing, and that’s why I needed all these clarifications because
they approved me, and then they started kind of changing the rules
and saying, ‘‘Well, this doesn’t cover that, and it doesn’t cover this.’’
And it’s like, ‘‘Well, I thought it was approved.’’ So, I think simplify
the process, make sure you cover all those bases up front. And
then, the other thing I would just emphasize is the people that are
dealing with the public, just make sure they’re well trained. Just
train them in how to answer these questions and have a timeline
for when you get back to people with an answer. You know, it
shouldn’t be weeks to get an answer. It should be maybe a day or
two, if not a few hours.
Senator BUDD. I think you mentioned there were six loan officers
in five months or so.
Mr. O’LEARY. Five case managers.
Senator BUDD. Five case managers.
Mr. O’LEARY. Yeah, over a six-month period, five case managers.
Senator BUDD. So, that added to the complexity, of course.
Mr. O’LEARY. I never knew who to contact.
Senator BUDD. Thank you. David.
Mr. JACKSON. So, my advice would be customer-forward relation-
ships. And, I emphasize the word relationships. And maybe this
was a little bit unique to our disaster, given the geographic region,
but I would echo or I would think that this would echo across the
country as well. We’ve got some deep-rooted Appalachia culture in
our region, where trust is earned. This is not a community where
you say, ‘‘Go call somebody on the phone,’’ especially, when the
phone is at work. Don’t call somebody on the phone, don’t log onto
a website and wait for your time in the queue. This is about a per-
son who’s in a center that you form a relationship with. And once
those relationships were able to be formed, we had some of the best
interaction with FEMA, the SBA, and any federal agency for that
matter. And then it all went away. I would consider the value of
customer-forward relationships, and how that can lead to the infor-
mation getting processed in a timely manner. I would echo the
process. I think that’s been well articulated. I would go back to my
one suggestion, being diversity in the products you offer—forgiv-
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able loans. I don’t think that anybody that’s been represented by
any of our communities has just come to this thing looking for a
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26
handout. They need a hand up into making sure that they have a
fighting chance to move forward. And that means there’s a meas-
ure of performance that I think that most businesses, most small
businesses, in our region are willing to understand that they have
to abide by. It’s not just take a check and go to the beach. It’s
here’s what can help me get my doors open again. Forgivable loans,
grants, that equals tax base. And it comes back to the customer
side of this. Again, taxpayers are customers, too. And I think that
if there were more tools that were available to help them get out
of the gates, they are the first ones that want to be a part of the
positive piece of recovery for all of our communities.
Senator BUDD. This has been great. Thank you all for being here
today. We appreciate your time. We appreciate your testimony.
We’re going to take a quick recess to allow our first panel to get
up and allow the table to be reset for the second panel.
[Recess.]
Senator BUDD. I call the Committee back to order. And we will
now proceed with our second panel. I’m pleased to welcome Mr.
Chris Stallings, who serves as the Associate Administrator for the
Office of Disaster Recovery and Resilience at the Small Business
Administration. Prior to his role at the SBA, Mr. Stallings served
as the director of the Georgia Emergency Management and Home-
land Security Agency. We thank you for being here, and you’re rec-
ognized for five minutes for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MR. CHRIS STALLINGS, ASSOCIATE ADMINIS-
TRATOR, OFFICE OF DISASTER RECOVERY & RESILIENCE,
U.S. SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, WASHINGTON, DC
Mr. STALLINGS. Chairman Budd, thank you for the opportunity
to testify today on behalf of the U.S. Small Business Administra-
tion, to discuss SBA’s recovery operations in response to Hurricane
Helene.
My name is Chris Stallings, and I have the pleasure of serving
as the Associate Administrator of SBA’s Office of Disaster Recovery
and Resilience. I bring nearly two decades of emergency manage-
ment and public safety experience to this role. Before joining the
SBA, I served as the Director of Emergency Management and
Homeland Security, leading the state’s responses to disasters, in-
cluding the COVID–19 Pandemic and Hurricane Helene, the very
storm that brings us here today.
As we gather in front of the Henderson County Historic Court-
house, I’m reminded of the incredible resolve Americans displayed
during the challenges brought by Hurricane Helene, which was one
of the most destructive storms to impact North Carolina and the
surrounding region. These were challenges I witnessed firsthand in
Georgia where communities were destroyed, and where families
and small businesses were devastated.
Under the leadership of Administrator Kelly Loeffler and at the
direction of the President, Donald J. Trump, the U.S. Small Busi-
ness Administration has improved its readiness to serve disaster-
impacted communities like these, and we have committed to taking
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the lessons learned from Hurricane Helene to ensure that the SBA
is always ready to provide reliable and robust disaster support.
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27
We are ready when disaster strikes, and we are committed to
serving as a trusted partner in recovery. And to that end, SBA con-
tinues to lean forward supporting long-term recovery and economic
relief for all Americans affected by disasters.
Since January the 20th, 2025, the SBA has restored our recovery
mission to begin and end with the survivor in mind. We have ele-
vated our regional recovery coordinators for rapid information shar-
ing and extended partnerships with local and state agencies to
maximize outreach and service delivery.
We have prioritized cross training with our Office of Field Oper-
ations to deputize more SBA personnel to assist with disaster re-
sponse. Most importantly, we have improved funding readiness to
prevent disruptions like those we saw during the Biden Adminis-
tration, which left thousands of Americans stranded without vital
relief.
SBA has expanded ground support to guarantee help is visible
and accessible to everyone. Through listening sessions with state
emergency management leaders and SBAs Office of Rural Affairs,
SBA has bolstered our recovery response to rural regions, deploying
mobile recovery vehicles, portable loan outreach centers, which
brings our team and the disaster assistance programs to the sur-
vivor, no matter how remote their location.
And in July, we ended a Biden-era regulation that banned the
SBA from providing disaster relief in the form of economic injury
disaster loans to faith-based organizations. SBA has also extended
the capacity of our disaster processing and disbursement center to
accelerate the release of funds after the loan is approved. Today,
the average approval time after submission is 14.83 days, down
from 17.73 days just a year ago.
During recovery operations for Helene, SBA mobilized 381 staff
across seven states, supporting 115 disaster recovery centers.
These centers which provide in-person assistance to residents, busi-
nesses, and nonprofits seeking federal disaster assistance were vis-
ited by over 27,000 disaster survivors, with SBA approving over
18,500 applications for a total of $1,700,000,000 in long-term recov-
ery funds, helping families rebuild homes, allowing small busi-
nesses to replace equipment and inventory, and fueling the local
economy recovery.
In North Carolina, SBA led economic stabilization efforts and de-
veloped the recovery needs assessment, and recovery support strat-
egy, which identifies specific needs of small businesses. Utilizing
available data, SBA provided targeted support through our re-
source partners fueling local economic recovery.
SBA has remained a key contributor in recovery initiatives,
which includes the Private Roads and Bridges Task Force holding
business recovery resource expos, and hosting mitigation funding
workshops, enabling survivors to use additional SBA funding as-
sistance to reduce the risk of future disaster damage.
Our agency remains focused on how we can continuously improve
and help the disaster survivor. The lessons learned during Hurri-
cane Helene were vast and have already been woven into SBA’s
mission to deliver disaster loan assistance through extensive part-
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nerships with local leaders, our own field apparatus, and a small
business community.
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28
In closing, thank you for your continued support of SBA’s dis-
aster recovery mission. Your partnership ensures that we deliver
timely and reliable assistance to families and small businesses
when they need it most. The SBA remains committed to helping
disaster-impacted communities rebuild stronger and more resilient
for the future.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions, sir.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Stallings follows.]
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Senator BUDD. Thank you for your testimony. I now recognize
myself for questions. Mr. Stallings, you’ve been in this position
since February of this year, and thank you for your willingness to
serve. While you were not in this role during the SBA’s initial re-
sponse to Helene, this afternoon, you were able to listen to the ex-
periences of individuals in businesses across Western North Caro-
lina in the aftermath of the hurricane. So, is there anything that
you’d like to say in response to their testimony and the discussion
we had previously?
Mr. STALLINGS. First and foremost, we apologize for the funding
lapse that I can’t imagine what that sent shockwaves through the
community. The Biden Administration failed to communicate with
one another internally, and certainly with our members of Con-
gress. That’s something that we take very personal. I, just like
them, woke up at sunrise and I found out that, before sunrise, I’d
already lost 10 Georgians under my watch. I know the impact that
this storm has had, and I can say that we have made every step
through this process as customer-focused and as disaster survivor-
friendly as we can make it. Some of the heartburn that has been
laid out today is the heartburn I brought with me, because I, too,
saw these challenges in Georgia. I had to answer the phone to the
businessmen and women, and survivors there trying to explain why
their government, that they pay their taxes to, didn’t have enough
money to fund their need. So, I understand that. My heart hurt,
I was frustrated and when given the opportunity, I thought, if you
can’t beat them, let’s join them. I look forward to the opportunity
to come in under the leadership of Administrator Kelly Loeffler,
who brings a wealth of knowledge in business who says, ‘‘Chris, we
need to turn this back into what it should be, about the survivor.’’
And so, we leaned in heavy. And so, I just first want to apologize
for our lapse. We made the promise that we’re here to do every-
thing we can to learn from our mistakes and embrace them so that
we can build a better future for everyone else who experience simi-
lar situations.
Senator BUDD. Thank you very much, Mr. Stallings. I remember
those early days and the North Georgia coverage. It was our own
Franklin Graham from Samaritan’s Purse and former President,
soon to be President again, Trump, and now Administrator
Leoffler. Perhaps you were at that site, but I appreciate your work
there. We have to remember, while the lion’s share was Western
North Carolina, Georgia was tremendously impacted as well. So,
thank you for your work there. Specifically, I want to follow up on
Mr. O’Leary’s testimony that appears to have heard more recently.
I understand that you inherited a backlog from the prior adminis-
tration. So, what have you done to address the backlog?
Mr. STALLINGS. So, I think the first thing that was mentioned
was the separation of the disaster loan program from the Disaster
Recovery and Resilience branch. The first thing that Administrator
Loeffler has done is through our reorganization once complete,
she’s bringing that back together. That gives us the opportunity to
work that process completely from beginning to end. When talking
with our team, one of the first things I talked about and learned
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from our team was that those customer service reps that sat in
those disaster recovery centers that talked hand in hand with those
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32
survivors, had the ability to get that person to the submit button.
But once that application was submitted, they lost the ability to
have some of those back-office conversations and see where that
loan process was. Under the previous administration, there was a
focus on speed. Now, in my biography, if you read a little further
back, I was a state trooper, and when I stood on the firing line, I
couldn’t miss fast enough. I needed to be accurate with every round
that left my revolver or my firearm. What I would say is the pre-
vious administration focused on speed, but not accuracy. So, why
did someone experience maybe five loan officers? Well, the faster
I could get it off my desk, I met a metric. I’m a human; I want to
be treated as such. I’m bringing back through the leadership of Ad-
ministrator Loeffler and under the direction of our President, a
human element to the process; picking up the phone, talking one-
on-one. I grew up in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. I
understand and speak Appalachian. You don’t have to worry if they
like you or they hate you. Give them three seconds and read their
face, you’ll know. I think that is important in the process. How
would you want your loan treated when you call me? And I think
that’s the effort you deserve. So, one of the things we’re bringing
back is picking up the phone and bringing the human element. Yes,
technology’s great. It is wonderful to be approved in 15 minutes,
but it is an awful experience to be denied in 15 minutes and have
to wait weeks on a letter that tells you why. And it could be as
simple as mentioned in one of the applications, a mis-stroke of the
keyboard. I have a grandmother. I’m very fortunate, I have all of
my grandparents. I would never ask them to sit down on a com-
puter and fill out an application they’re not comfortable with. Part
of that human element is still keeping that pen-and-paper men-
tality, walking someone through that process slowly. I think that’s
so important, something that this administration is committed to
doing; bringing the human element back to the process, because
we’re dealing with folks who didn’t ask to be there. I promise you,
if we had went back on the 26th of September, and took a poll and
said, ‘‘Who’s willing to have their home or business destroyed by
generational flooding?’’, that not a single hand went up. We have
to keep that in our mind as we go through the process.
Senator BUDD. Thank you. This may be a continuation of that
prior answer, but under your leadership, the Office of Disaster Re-
sponse & Recovery has been hard at work undoing a lot of the mis-
takes from the prior Biden Administration. So, could you talk about
some of the changes you’ve made, and how it’s going to better serve
disaster victims?
Mr. STALLINGS. Yes, sir. Focusing on the individual, not a metric.
Not a, ‘‘Did I do well enough to get my performance evaluation
checked off because I approved or disapproved so many loans.’’
Also, the ability for our team to just sit down and look at where
we’re good. You know, it’s really easy to stand here, and thump our
chest, and talk about the areas that we’re good at. Everybody en-
joys that. But it is taking a moment to look and see our areas that
we’re not good and we need some improvement. Our customer serv-
ice needed improvement. One mandate that I’ve required is, once
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the reorganization is complete, every individual in my agency, that
falls under our disaster program, if you’ve never been deployed to
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33
a disaster scene, you have to go to one. And why is that important?
I thought I was an emergency manager in Georgia until I stood in
a disaster scene and saw the tear streaks through muddy faces,
and I saw children picking up their toys out of the mud in the
yard, and I saw families broken. And until someone experiences
that, unfortunately, you don’t really have compassion and under-
standing for what a person is going through. So, first mandate was
we’re putting every single individual in the field. You’ve got to go
stay, you’ve got to go work those disaster recovery centers, before
you go back, you’ll be truly sympathetic then to that disaster loan.
The second part is within our statutes. My focus is not speed of ap-
proval or denial, it is make the effort to get to yes. That is our
motto. What is our effort—get to yes. If we can get to ‘‘yes’’ legally
through our statutes, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t. These
are tax dollars paid by taxpayers, and they deserve the right to
have access to the resources that the federal government has prom-
ised that we would bring.
Senator BUDD. Thank you. So, for everyone here lucky enough
not to be steeped in SBA disaster loan funding and how the federal
government estimates funding requirements, the subsidy rate helps
Congress understand how much money the SBA needs to fund its
disaster program each and every year. In 2022, the subsidy rate
was 8.96 percent. By 2025, the subsidy rate more than doubled to
22.22 percent. A higher rate means the program costs more, and
the SBA should work with Congress to ensure the program won’t
run out of money during a disaster. So, Mr. Stallings, how does a
higher subsidy rate impact the number of loans you can make and
disaster survivors that you can assist?
Mr. STALLINGS. In easy language that even a guy who grew up
in Fannin County, Georgia, can understand; the higher the rate,
the less dollars I have. And so your $100,000,000 that you give me
just doesn’t go as far as it did. So, the more we can work together
to get that subsidy rate down the better chance we can to reach
more folks. It also prevents that funding lapse that fell under the
previous administration.
Senator BUDD. So, would you agree, Mr. Stallings, that this high-
er subsidy rate likely limited the number of loans that SBA was
able to make following Hurricane Helene?
Mr. STALLINGS. I would, sir.
Senator BUDD. Earlier this year, I introduced S. 300, the Dis-
aster Loan Accountability and Reform Act, or DLARA, for short.
The bill looks to make statutory changes to increase oversight, en-
sure that a funding shortfall like this never happens again. Mr.
Stallings, I’m pleased that some of the provisions in this bill, such
as the monthly disaster report, have already been addressed by the
Trump Administration. Can you explain what changes have been
made to disaster report and the importance of Congressional re-
porting?
Mr. STALLINGS. Yes, sir. So, per the Small Business Disaster Re-
sponse and Loan Improvement Act of 2008, there should have been
monthly reporting already occurring. We came in, looked at the re-
port, and the report was difficult, at best, to understand. We revi-
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talized the report, we changed it, we made it much easier to digest,
We made it easier to look at and regurgitate. I can give you the
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34
information on it, and it is easy to recall. It’s not just spreadsheet
after spreadsheet of trying to hide a mistake. By that, we’ve also
made a promise that it will come to Congress every month as it
should. We’ve been faithful to that promise already, and we’ve got
positive feedback on the changes that we’ve made. I think it was
extremely important, as someone that has worked with the federal
government, the transparency of it, showing where we stood. You
know, just give me my odds. I’ll fight from there. Tell me what I
have, and what I don’t have. I don’t like the word ‘‘maybe’’. And
this report that we’re doing takes away the maybes. I think it gives
us a lot of ‘‘yes’’ and ‘‘no’’. And so, the report itself was important.
It also, in your bill that you mentioned, sir, you talk about us
bringing the program back together. That was a Day 1 priority.
Once confirmed, Administrator Loeffler said we’ve got to bring that
back together. It just doesn’t make sense to have it torn apart. So,
bringing back that disaster loan apparatus together, I think, is ex-
tremely important as well.
Senator BUDD. Thanks. The SBA ran out of funding on October
16th, beginning a 66-day shortfall, which we discussed earlier. And
that lasted until December 21st. And this shortfall ended only after
Congress passed a supplemental appropriation, which provided the
SBA with an additional $2,300,000,000. DLARA would require the
SBA to submit a statement as part of its annual budget, detailing
the 10-year average cost of providing disaster loans and admin-
istering the program. Do you think incorporating the funding of
SBA’s disaster loan program in the regular appropriations process
could have helped avoid a similar shortfall in the future, or lessen
the need for supplemental appropriations?
Mr. STALLINGS. I think transparency between our agency and
Congress is extremely important, whether it’s with a monthly re-
port or the annual budget. I think the fact is, that we need to
maintain an open line of communication. We certainly enjoy our
work with the Small Business Committee, both the Senate and in
the House, and we promise to remain transparent. As long as Ad-
ministrator Loeffler is in her seat and I’m in mine, we promise to
make that relationship work.
Senator BUDD. So, I wish you were in your role five months ear-
lier, but one of the most concerning problems with the shortfall is
SBA failed to find the solutions in the moment. SBA wasn’t able
to stretch the limited funding they still had, to ensure that some
people got even a little bit of money while SBA waited for the full
amount to be approved by Congress. Having this flexibility during
disasters was an important lesson learned, and my bill will provide
the flexibility to the SBA Administrator to lower SBA’s loan obliga-
tions to the statutory unsecured loan limit of $14,000 when the dis-
aster subsidy account falls to under 10 percent. More simply, this
fix will allow the Administrator to ensure more people can at least
get a first portion of their loan so they can start rebuilding, rather
than making thousands of borrowers wait on the federal govern-
ment. Mr. Stallings, how will this flexibility increase the number
of constituents who could receive the funding?
Mr. STALLINGS. Well, first I have to brag on my Administrator.
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I don’t think President Trump could have made a better selection
by naming Administrator Loeffler to her seat. She comes with a
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35
business background, so she understands how to make dollars and
cents work. She understands that flexibility is key. And if that bill
is passed, I believe that—I don’t believe—I know that our agency
will be able to work with you, and your team, and the whole com-
mittee to ensure that that flexibility allows us to be nimble. I think
that most lessons that I ever learned in my emergency manage-
ment background was, give me a little of something—that beats all
of nothing. And so, if I can take a little of something and be flexi-
ble, it can get me down the road a little further.
Senator BUDD. That’s helpful. Thank you. Another challenge is
the whole-of-government approach to disasters and ensuring proper
interagency coordination. For many folks, the alphabet super agen-
cies involved in disaster recovery, it only hurts rather than helps.
Could you talk about your work alongside other federal partners to
ensure the process following disaster is more coordinated and
streamlined?
Mr. STALLINGS. So, I take great pride in communication, talking
with those agencies. It did not fall on deaf ears the aggravation of
the application—multiple agencies, multiple applications. We have
made it a priority to express our desire to see one application. And
I believe that is a future that needs to be funded and found quickly
in the federal government, is that there’s one place that an indi-
vidual can go. Business, homeowner, renter, private, nonprofit,
enter in their information, and then those in federal family should
be able to pull what information they need that’s applicable to their
program. So, I’m a big advocate of that. I believe simplifying it. The
disaster portfolio, whether it’s grant or loan, is different than the
7(a), or the 504, or any other operation that you would get from
SBA. Why is that? It’s the mindset in which someone is applying.
We have to take into consideration the mindset of the applicant.
What they’ve just experienced, what they’ve just faced, and keeping
it simple for them is a huge step in the process. So, sir, I’m a big
advocate of bringing those partners together. I’ve met with USDA,
I’ve met with FEMA, weve met with HUD, we’ve met with all the
federal family that would show up, and say; how can we better do
this? And I think the first step is that one application process.
Senator BUDD. You talked a lot about agencies, particularly SBA,
and how to improve. What would you recommend to Congress on
how to improve the process on our side, and how to better serve
taxpayers?
Mr. STALLINGS. I think more flexibility on the ground when our
team shows up. We are now making some changes to how we oper-
ate internally. As you mentioned earlier, and I believe in Panel 1,
the response is very important. But we’re not a response agency.
We’re a recovery agency, unfortunately. I spent a long time with
blue lights and sirens on a vehicle, and when I hear them, my
heart starts beating fast now. But it’s difficult to know that my role
sometimes is not to be there in the immediate. And so, we are lean-
ing forward in other ways. We’re starting to put our regional recov-
ery coordinators inside state operation centers where we can—so
that we could start talking then and whispering, ‘‘Hey, don’t forget
us. Let’s go ahead and start doing this. Let’s think about that.’’ The
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value of blue-sky conversations. You talked about earlier the role
of the government. Well, I think part of our response is knowing
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36
what tool to reach in the toolbox. You know, if the old adage, ‘‘If
the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.’’ Well, if
we can show someone else another tool, having some more blue-sky
day conversations. So, we’ve made a lot of strides. President
Trump’s intergovernmental affairs team has really given us an op-
portunity at SBA. They’ve set up a lot of phone calls on our behalf
so we can start talking to governors and governor staff. Myself, and
Administrator Loeffler have traveled a lot talking to these teams.
So, that going into a storm, you know, we’re there, you thought
about us in advance, you’re understanding the programs that we
do offer so that when it does go bad, unfortunately, you know
you’ve got a friend in us that you can call. That SBA has a myriad
of programs that we can bring to the table, and that you’re not try-
ing to scramble for solutions. There’s a solution you met months
ago called SBA, and we just want to be there to help.
Senator BUDD. Great. Thank you, Mr. Stallings. I have no fur-
ther questions, and that concludes this panel. I want to thank our
witnesses on both panels for being with us today. I ask unanimous
consent that the record of today’s hearing to remain open for two
weeks for members to submit questions, revise and extend their re-
marks, and submit additional information for the record.
Without objection, so ordered. With that, the Committee on
Small Business and Entrepreneurship stands adjourned. Thank
you.
[Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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