Saluting Service: Supporting Veteran Owned Small Businesses (House Small Business Committee hearing, May 24, 2023)
Summary
The printed record of a House Committee on Small Business hearing, Saluting Service: Supporting Veteran Owned Small Businesses, held May 24, 2023, Small Business Committee Document Number 118–014. The committee met at 2:01 p.m. in Room 2360 of the Rayburn House Office Building with Chairman Roger Williams presiding; Williams and Ranking Member Nydia Velázquez gave opening statements. Four veteran business owners testified: Taylor Burks of Rost Landscaping, Columbia, MO; Grant Quezada of Founding Fathers Collective, Prescott, AZ; Liberty Weaver of Breakable Hearts LLC, Fernandina Beach, FL; and Michael Hyacinthe of Wimage, Grand Rapids, MI. The appendix adds a statement from Marine Corps veteran Cheston Syma. Closing the hearing, Representative Ellzey suggested a pilot program for peer counseling of veterans leaving service. The committee adjourned at 4:17 p.m.
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SALUTING SERVICE: SUPPORTING VETERAN
OWNED SMALL BUSINESSES
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
HEARING HELD
MAY 24, 2023
Small Business Committee Document Number 118–014
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
52–171 WASHINGTON : 2023
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TRACEY MANN, Kansas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARC MOLINARO, New York
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
ELI CRANE, Arizona
AARON BEAN, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
NICK LALOTA, New York
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
JUDY CHU, California
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
BEN JOHNSON, Majority Staff Director
MELISSA JUNG, Minority Staff Director
(II)
CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Roger Williams ................................................................................................ 1
Hon. Nydia Velázquez ............................................................................................. 2
WITNESSES
Mr. Taylor Burks, President and General Manager, Rost Landscaping, Colum-
bia, MO ................................................................................................................. 6
Mr. Grant Quezada, Founder, Founding Fathers Collective, Prescott, AZ ......... 8
Ms. Liberty Weaver, Owner, Breakable Hearts LLC, Fernandina Beach, FL ... 9
Mr. Michael Hyacinthe, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wimage, Grand
Rapids, MI ............................................................................................................ 11
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mr. Taylor Burks, President and General Manager, Rost Landscaping,
Columbia, MO ............................................................................................... 47
Mr. Grant Quezada, Founder, Founding Fathers Collective, Prescott, AZ . 49
Ms. Liberty Weaver, Owner, Breakable Hearts LLC, Fernandina Beach,
FL ................................................................................................................... 51
Mr. Michael Hyacinthe, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Wimage,
Grand Rapids, MI ......................................................................................... 54
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
Mr. Cheston Syma, Marine Corps Veteran and Small Business Owner ..... 56
(III)
SALUTING SERVICE: SUPPORTING VETERAN-
OWNED SMALL BUSINESSES
WEDNESDAY, MAY 24, 2023
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:01 p.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams [chair-
man of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Williams, Luetkemeyer, Stauber,
Meuser, Van Duyne, Mann, Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, Crane, Bean,
Hunt, LaLota, Velázquez, Golden, Mfume, McGarvey,
Gluesenkamp Perez, Scholten, Thanedar, Chu, Davids, and Pappas.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank the
witnesses for being here. And I now call the Committee on Small
Business to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of
the Committee at any time.
And I now recognize myself for my opening statement.
Welcome to today’s hearing, which will focus on supporting vet-
eran-owned small businesses.
Without our brave men and women serving in the Armed Forces,
we would not be the country that we are today. Their service and
willingness to pay the ultimate sacrifice are what always allows us
here at home to carry on with our daily lives through everything
from going to work and school to helping with our kids’ little league
games and everything in between. Our servicemembers run to-
wards danger, defend our God-given freedoms in faraway lands,
and protect us from those who seek to do us harm.
Simply put, those who have served on the front lines to protect
our nation are beacons of hope for our country, not only in the
present but for the future generations of leaders, and serve as an
example for others to follow in their footsteps.
For the last 12 years, I have had the pleasure of representing the
great place in Texas, Fort Cavazos, formerly known as Fort Hood.
This is the largest military base in the country, and it is called
home by over 30,000 Active Duty servicemembers. It is an honor
every time I meet with them there, as they come from all walks
of life, from all corners of our country.
When I visit the base and sit down with our soldiers, it is inspir-
ing to hear these people’s stories and what they want to accomplish
once they finish their military service. They and their families are
nothing short of extraordinary. Their drive, dedication, and work
(1)
2
ethic are all attributes we should all strive to have and all of which
make our society a much better place.
As they protect us and allow us to pursue our American Dreams,
we have a responsibility to help them do the same after their serv-
ice is complete. Military servicemembers are natural leaders who
play a vital role in our economy. Our nation’s heroes own close to
2 million businesses, nearly all of which are small businesses, and
are 45 percent more likely to be self-employed than non-veterans.
The federal government offers an array of programs that support
servicemembers and their families if they are interested in creating
their own small business.
One of those programs is the Small Business Administration’s
Boots to Business initiative, which provides entrepreneurship
training to transitioning servicemembers to help them reenter the
workforce and give them the tools to start their own business.
Since the program’s inception in 2013, over 150,000
servicemembers, veterans, and military spouses have participated
in the Boots to Business program.
I was fortunate enough to see firsthand the work this program
does when I visited Fort Cavazos with Administrator Guzman this
past March to listen to the amazing business ideas that many of
our servicemembers have today.
Our nation’s brave servicemen and servicewomen are truly the
bedrock of our country and put their lives on the line to defend our
Constitution and freedom around the world.
To conclude, I hope today’s hearing can further assist our coun-
try’s servicemen and -women in their transition to civilian life and
to help them pursue their dreams here at home.
God bless you all, and thank you for all you have done for our
country.
With that, I yield to our distinguished Ranking Member from
New York, Ms. Velázquez.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today and to the
Chairman for convening this hearing as we near Memorial Day, a
time when our nation collectively honors the ultimate sacrifice
made by so many in service to our country.
Today, we turn our focus to those brave men and women who,
having completed their military service, continue to serve our na-
tion. Every year, more than 200,000 servicemembers transition to
civilian life, carrying with them the invaluable skills and experi-
ences gained during their years of service. Their unwavering cour-
age, astute decision-making, and exceptional leadership abilities
are enormous assets for starting a business.
Our military members are not only among the most well-
equipped to overcome obstacles in resource-constrained environ-
ments, but they have also recognized entrepreneurship as a power-
ful form of social and economic service.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, over 2.4 million veteran
business owners employ more than 5.7 million Americans and con-
tribute approximately $1.2 trillion annually to our GDP.
By all measures, veteran entrepreneurs are an integral part of
our economic engine. By expanding entrepreneurial opportunities
3
for transitioning servicemembers, we foster wealth creation and
community development.
In past hearings, we have discussed the unfortunate decline in
self-employment rates among veterans, but there are some encour-
aging signs this may be reversing. Just as new business applica-
tions have surged by over 10 million in the past 2 years, one survey
found that the share of businesses started by veterans nearly dou-
bled, from 5.4 percent in 2019 to 10.7 percent.
This is a tremendous achievement, but it does not mean the job
is done. Veterans face more barriers to accessing capital, navi-
gating the resources available to them, and finding adequate men-
tors.
That is why the SBA has a range of programs to support veteran
entrepreneurs, like the Boots to Business program, which this
Committee voted yesterday to codify, and Veteran Business Out-
reach Centers that provided training to over 58,000 veteran small-
business owners throughout 2022.
Two weeks ago, we heard from witnesses about the benefits of
the Veteran Institute for Procurement, a program designed specifi-
cally to educate veterans on how to do business with the federal
government from start to finish.
Unfortunately, budget cuts demanded by Republicans in their
‘‘Default on America Act’’ would reduce the SBA’s budget by 22 per-
cent. This dramatic cut will significantly impact the ability to ad-
minister SBA programs benefiting millions of veterans.
I encourage my colleagues to consider the consequences of the
draconian cuts they are demanding while they hold our economy
hostage. This does nothing but harm our country’s veterans and
veteran entrepreneurs. I hope we can come to a resolution without
causing deep economic consequences.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Ranking Member.
And before we get started, we are going to ask the military to
adjust again, okay? Our clocks aren’t working, that are in front of
you. So we’ve got two timers back here. I will watch the time. As
we get close to 5 minutes, I will give you a tap, and you will know
where you are, okay? So thank you for that.
I now have the pleasure of recognizing my esteemed colleagues
to introduce our witnesses, all of which are from Member states.
I now recognize my colleague Mr. Alford from Missouri to intro-
duce his constituent who is appearing before us today.
Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Well, it is really my distinct pleasure and honor for me to have
Lieutenant Commander Taylor Burks testifying before us today as
we discuss two very important issues to this country and Missouri’s
Fourth Congressional District—veterans and small business.
Taylor Burks currently serves as the president and general man-
ager of Rost, Inc., located in Columbia, Missouri. Founded by Tim
and Toby Rost in 1985, Rost prides itself on creating vivid land-
scape designs for central Missourians.
Prior to working for Rost, Taylor served our State in various ca-
pacities. He was a director for the University of Missouri System,
appointed by the Governor in 2017 to serve as Boone County’s
4
clerk, and a director for the Missouri Department of Labor and In-
dustrial Relations.
Taylor has also served our country for 16 years in the U.S. Navy
in both Active Duty and the Reserves, earning numerous awards
such as the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Joint Commenda-
tion Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, Navy
and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, and the Military Out-
standing Volunteer Service Medal.
He continues to serve as a lieutenant commander in the Navy
Reserve. As a fifth-generation Missourian who grew up on his fam-
ily’s cattle farm, it clearly runs through Taylor’s veins—service
does indeed.
Mr. Chairman, if you will indulge me just a short time more in
this introduction, on a personal note, Taylor Burks was a formi-
dable opponent in our Republican primary for this seat. We became
friends early on, encouraging one another, proving that politics
does not have to be a nasty business.
He is a brother in Christ, and Proverbs 27:17 says, ‘‘So as iron
sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.’’
Taylor, thank you for sharpening me, and thank you for your
service. I look forward to your testimony, sir.
Commander BURKS. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Alford.
I now recognize my colleague Mr. Crane from Arizona to intro-
duce his constituent who is appearing before us today.
Mr. CRANE. Our next witness here today with us is a good
friend of mine, Mr. Grant Quezada.
Mr. Quezada is the co-founder of Founding Fathers Collective in
my district, Arizona’s Second Congressional District, in Prescott,
Arizona.
A veteran of the United States Army, who served for 8 years, did
six tours as an Army Ranger—for those of you guys that don’t
know, that is like a Navy SEAL but JV version—Mr. Quezada
began his business venture in 2014 when he opened the John Han-
cock Barbershop, providing a working environment to benefit fellow
veterans and create a unique experience for his community.
Following the success of the John Hancock Barbershop, he co-
founded Founding Fathers Collective, the parent company which
owns and operates 6 different entities, employing 65 people, and
contributing to the thriving tourism industry in Prescott. In 2022,
Founding Fathers Collective won the W.O. Lawton Award for Busi-
ness Leadership, beating out over 300 nominees selected nation-
wide.
Mr. Quezada, I speak for the whole Committee when I say, thank
you for all you have done for our country. And we are looking for-
ward to the conversation ahead.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Crane.
I now recognize my colleague Mr. Bean from Florida to introduce
his constituent who is appearing before us today.
Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. A very good
afternoon to you.
And good afternoon, Small Business Committee.
I do have the special honor to introduce a special guest who—
welcome to everybody.
5
But in addition to having the most patriotic name ever, Liberty
Weaver is the owner of Breakable Hearts, LLC, located in my
hometown of Fernandina Beach, which, of course, is located in the
free State of Florida. Prior to starting Breakable Hearts, Ms. Wea-
ver proudly served her country in the United States Air Force.
Breakable Hearts was founded in 2021 by Ms. Weaver and her
mother, Megan, who is in the audience today—a proud mom.
Breakable Hearts is a baking company that specializes—get this—
in making delectable desserts, including their famous cake in the
shape of a heart that contains gifts inside the cake. Some say that
is genius; I call it delicious.
Starting a small business, especially during the challenging
times of the pandemic, has made Ms. Weaver far too aware of the
issues that lack of capital can have on an aspiring business and
makes her a valuable voice to hear from today.
We got to spend a few minutes before. She is ready to talk, and
she has got things to say, and we are going to hear them.
Ms. Weaver is a graduate of the Community College of the Air
Force, received a Bachelor of Applied Science degree in psychology
from the University of Maryland, and received a master’s degree
from Pepperdine University Graduate School of Education in psy-
chology.
Ms. Weaver, Liberty—let’s call you Liberty—Liberty, thank you
for coming and having the courage to share your story. We are glad
to have you here.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Bean.
And I now recognize the Ranking Member from New York, Ms.
Velázquez, to briefly introduce our last witness appearing before us
today.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I would now like to yield to Representative Scholten, Rank-
ing Member of our Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastruc-
ture, from Michigan, to introduce our final witness.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Well, thank you so much.
Our final witness today is a constituent of mine, Mr. Michael
Hyacinthe, who is an amazing veteran entrepreneur based in
Grand Rapids.
Michael is an 8-year U.S. Navy veteran, who served as a U.S.
Navy Seabee. After exiting the military, he became a recognized
entrepreneur, including his role as co-founder and Chairman of
HAS HEART, an organization aimed at helping service-disabled
veterans find a creative outlet.
He is also CEO and founder of Wimage, a children’s media com-
pany dedicated to fostering learning and exploration through new
technological innovation. I have had the pleasure of touring
Wimage, and I can speak firsthand of the amazing work that Mi-
chael is doing.
Within Wimage, he serves as the executive producer for ‘‘Wimee’s
Words,’’ an educational children’s show broadcasted in 24 PBS
markets and other platforms. He has his original Wimee prototype
here with him today, right behind him. I know my two boys are
big fans.
6
Finally, he is a lead facilitator and founding Member of the Vet-
eran Entrepreneurship Lab at Grand Valley State University,
where he helps other veterans start and grow businesses.
His entrepreneurial journey gained him national recognition by
outlets like Inc. Magazine and the Grand Rapids Business Journal.
Most recently, he was recognized as a Top 10 Admired Leader of
2022 by Industry Era Magazine.
Thank you for joining us today, Michael. We look forward to your
testimony.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Thank you.
And before I recognize the witnesses, I would like to remind
them again that your oral testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in
length. And if you see the light turn red—we have already been
through that—we will run it for the gavel so you will know where
you are. So we will handle that.
I now recognize Mr. Burks for his 5-minute opening remarks.
STATEMENTS OF LIEUTENANT COMMANDER TAYLOR BURKS,
PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER, ROST LANDSCAPING;
SERGEANT FIRST CLASS GRANT QUEZADA, FOUNDER,
FOUNDING FATHERS COLLECTIVE; E5 STAFF SERGEANT
LIBERTY WEAVER, OWNER, BREAKABLE HEARTS, LLC; AND
PETTY OFFICER SECOND CLASS MICHAEL HYACINTHE, CEO
AND FOUNDER, WIMAGE
STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT COMMANDER TAYLOR BURKS
Commander BURKS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the honor
and privilege to be here and speak on behalf of my fellow residents
of Missouri’s Fourth District but also veterans in small business.
I also appreciate the heartwarming introduction from my Con-
gressman, Mr. Alford. I think he read my bio and intro pretty well
because he heard it a thousand times in 2022.
But if anyone knows Mr. Alford, you know the first time he
meets you, he looks up to you, and after that, you grow to look up
to him. He has the heart for service that I have grown to admire
and respect, and love him and his beautiful wife, Leslie, his kids.
And so I am honored to have him as my Congressman here, but
also the connection to speak to small business and the issues facing
veterans.
I am Taylor Burks. I am the president of Rost, Incorporated, and
the general manager of Midway Golf, Games, Events & 44 Tavern
in Columbia, Missouri. I am a former director of labor standards
for the State of Missouri under Governor Mike Parson and have
served 16 years now in the United States Navy, both Active Duty
and the Reserves.
I have served overseas a number of times for this country, and
I firmly believe and have spoken repeatedly that the United States
military is our number-one career-skills program that we can offer
young people in this country.
After my career in public service, Tim and Toby Rost approached
me to discuss stepping into their chief executive role for their fam-
ily-owned company. It was founded 38 years ago by Tim Rost when
he was a college student at the University of Missouri. The con-
7
tractor skipped out on a job. The general contractor approached
him, said, ‘‘Can you finish it?’’ He did, and his company was found-
ed that way.
Thirty-eight years later, they have five divisions, phenomenal di-
visions—not just landscaping design and construction. We have
tree farms, we have retail centers, wholesale centers, and we have
expanded into entertainment and outdoor sports.
Our initial conversations with the Rosts centered around expand-
ing their entertainment business with indoor golf bays, a res-
taurant, and an events center at Midway, which is part of Colum-
bia, Missouri. And they needed an executive to do that.
After that expansion, our company’s strategy focuses on the next
generation of ownership and leadership at Rost, Incorporated,
whenever they decide to step back from their daily roles within the
company that they founded nearly 40 years ago.
In this conversation about how they continue their family busi-
ness, my experience as an accountant, logistician, and labor profes-
sional were high on their priority list for anybody. And good luck
finding that mix. I didn’t plan it. I stumbled upon each step of my
career in doing that.
Not least of these priorities are because of the automation, the
supply chain, and the H-2B visa issues that we face in the indus-
tries that we work in and we provide for mid-Missouri.
What sealed the deal for Tim and Toby Rost was my service as
an officer in the United States Navy. You learn resiliency, you
learn character, you learn the soft skills in the military that I and
veterans bring to the table. In short, the Navy opened the door to
small-business entrepreneurship for me, made possible through a
family’s vision for the future of their own business.
Like many servicemembers leaving the military, my experience
transitioning out of Active Duty was challenging. I went through
Transition GPS for the Navy in 2014 while I was at business school
at Washington University in St. Louis, which, itself, was paid for
through the Post-9/11 GI Bill’s Yellow Ribbon Program.
Transition GPS gave me the opportunity to think about how I
translate my service into civilian-speak. And it was frustrating for
me because, of the over 60 jobs I applied for, the response was gen-
erally that I am overqualified. Common to servicemembers who are
leaving, my sailors who are transitioning out of Active Duty tell me
the same thing, that they get approached and told, you are over-
qualified; the Navy or the military has taught you too much.
Where I found success was my own ability to connect with my
own community leaders, business owners in mid-Missouri. Those
connections, determination, and hard work gave me my first oppor-
tunity at entrepreneurship. I am blessed that the Rosts had a vi-
sion for their company and they chose me to include in their stra-
tegic planning for the future ownership of Rost, Inc.
The second issue that I hope that we discuss today is what hap-
pens to the tens of thousands of small and medium-size businesses
whose owners approach their own retirement and no succession
planning in place. Veterans have an opportunity to transition and
step into these businesses, many of them in the trades which
servicemembers learn during their military service, but may have
8
a gulf between connecting that entrepreneurship with their skills
as they leave the Navy.
In short, the military prepares us for success. Transition pro-
grams are invaluable to the veterans who are moving to civilian
life, but barriers to entrepreneurship can be lowered further so
that veterans of today can enjoy the same opportunities that pre-
vious post-war veterans’ generations saw for their veterans.
I appreciate the chance to talk about that today. I look forward
to our conversation.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.
And I now recognize Mr. Quezada for his 5-minute opening re-
marks.
STATEMENT OF SERGEANT FIRST CLASS GRANT QUEZADA
Sergeant QUEZADA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ladies and
gentlemen. My name is Grant Quezada. I am here today to rep-
resent several businesses under the parent company of Founding
Fathers Collective.
I stand before you as a proud United States Army veteran, hav-
ing served our country over 17 years now. I am a service-connected
disabled special operations veteran; have six deployments to Iraq
and Afghanistan. I left Active Duty after 8 years, and the last 9
years I have stayed in the Arizona National Guard.
In addition to my military service, I have ventured into the busi-
ness world. Upon returning to Arizona in 2014 with my wife and
children, I opened John Hancock Barbershop. I grew that from one
location to two and nine shares in 14 months and doubled revenue
for roughly 4 years, until I partnered with an Air Force veteran
friend of mine from childhood in 2018.
We purchased a 12,000-square-foot piece of property downtown,
and, amidst the challenging times of COVID, we opened October of
2020. We proudly opened Founding Fathers Collective. And within
that single location, we have seven businesses under-roof that we
own and operate.
I am honored to share that our entrepreneurial efforts have been
recognized by Salon Today; it is a prestigious industry publication.
John Hancock Barbershop was featured in Salon Today as a Top
10 Salon and Barbershop in the United States, a testament to our
commitment to excellence and customer satisfaction.
Furthermore, in 2018, John Hancock Barbershop was voted the
number-one veteran business of the year for the State of Arizona
through NACOG, or Northern Arizona Council of Governments.
In 2022, Founding Fathers Collective was humbly chosen out of
300 other participants at a national level to receive the W.O.
Lawton Business Leadership Award. This award honors businesses
that have demonstrated exceptional growth and community impact.
This recognition reinforces our dedication to not only building suc-
cessful enterprises but also positively contributing to the commu-
nities we serve.
Myself and my business partner have spent the last 8 years of
being back within the business—or, within our community of Pres-
cott and have sat on multiple boards and committees throughout
the community, to include the YMCA and several other nonprofits.
9
And we continue to instill that within our leadership within our
organization. So we employ about 60 or so employees within our
businesses, and, at the top level, many of our leaders and man-
agers sit on other nonprofits within the community as a way to
give back to Prescott and the surrounding areas.
However, amidst our accomplishments, it is important to address
the challenges faced by veterans transitioning into entrepreneur-
ship. While we appreciate the well-intentioned government pro-
grams such as Small Business Administration and the Office of
Veteran Business Development, it has been a little disheartening
to find that a lot of these programs often present barriers or red
tape or some bureaucratic hurdles when seeking assistance
through those means.
Fortunately, we have found a lot of support through fellow busi-
ness leaders and entrepreneurs within our community and
throughout the State. We have been able to navigate the pitfalls
that often come with starting and growing a business. And it is the
belief and guidance of these individuals that have helped us over-
come obstacles and achieve our goals as of today.
I stand before this esteemed Committee—or, I guess I sit, real-
ly—to shed light on the experiences of veterans within the business
world and urge you to consider streamlining government assistance
programs that are out there to encourage veterans to step into
business and leadership and entrepreneurship.
By reducing barriers and fostering collaboration with community-
based organizations, we can create an environment that supports
the entrepreneurial ambitions of veterans. This will not only ben-
efit individual veterans but also contribute to the growth and pros-
perity of our community as a whole.
In conclusion, I am grateful for the opportunity to share my jour-
ney and the success of Founding Fathers Collective with you today.
As veterans, we have demonstrated our commitment to serving our
country, and now we seek to serve our communities through entre-
preneurship. I kindly request your support in ensuring that our
transition into the business world is met with necessary resources,
streamlined processes, and partnerships that can help us thrive.
The last thing I would like to add, to set the record straight: Yes,
I am an Army Ranger, and even though my friend over here, Eli
Crane, or Congressman Crane, has luscious locks, normally they
get lost out in the woods and a Ranger regiment has to come and
save them. So here I am again making sure that effort succeeds.
Mr. CRANE. Good answer.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
I now recognize Ms. Weaver for her 5-minute opening remarks.
STATEMENT OF E5 STAFF SERGEANT LIBERTY WEAVER
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Chairman Williams, Congressman
Bean, and distinguished Members of the Committee on Small Busi-
ness, thank you for inviting me here today to discuss the success
and challenges that entrepreneurs face.
My name is Liberty Weaver. I am the owner of Breakable
Hearts, LLC. Breakable Hearts is a dessert catering company that
provides beautiful, upscale desserts for weddings and events. We
provide our services to southeast Georgia and northeast Florida.
10
We are based out of Fernandina Beach, Florida, in Nassau County,
and we have been operating since February of 2021.
I joined the Air Force back in 2009 directly out of high school.
I was assigned as a 4Y0X2, which is a dental laboratory technician.
And, no, I did not clean teeth; I actually made them. In the 6-1/
2 years that I served, I became a subject-matter expert in pediatric
removable orthodontic appliances.
And, although I was set to go far, I did have to end my time in
the military short, exiting as a staff sergeant. Transitioning out of
the military was scary, but I was very optimistic. I was pregnant,
writing a patent for an invention, and I thought that would—it
would retire me. And I was going to school.
When exiting the military, I took the class Boots to Business. It
was interesting, encouraging, and very, very informational. And it
actually sparked a little fire in me that maybe one day I could start
my own business.
Once I was out, everything that I had just learned seemed to get
locked away while I proceeded to embark on this new journey of
motherhood, education, and living in the middle-of-nowhere Ger-
many, also known as Hohenfels, if any of you are familiar.
When we moved back to the States, I was excited. I had a new
degree, I knew the language, and I had this thought that I was
going to get this amazing job with all the information I had
learned.
Wrong. The only experience I had was what I had learned in the
military—so, my very niche job. And without the experience to
work in the career choice that I desired, I used the experience from
the military to land a job in dental. I was hired as a removable ap-
pliance manager in Richmond, Virginia. And it wasn’t long after
working there that I started to feel stuck. I started to feel like my
dreams and my goals that I was qualified to do were slipping away.
In this day and age, a bachelor’s degree, in my opinion, is equiva-
lent to a high school diploma. And with the feeling of my life wast-
ing away, I started a new career in marketing, where I had the
human interaction and got to utilize things I had learned in school.
And then COVID happened, and everything got shut down. And
I am sure all of you guys are aware that there was this looming
sense of death and sickness over all of us. So I did what any nor-
mal person would do. I packed up my bags—was very used to doing
that—and I moved closer to my family in Florida with my daughter
and my husband, who was just recently medically retired from the
Army.
Without the option to work, I decided to go back to school. I got
accepted to Pepperdine University in the fall of 2020 and grad-
uated with my master’s degree in June of 2022. And, in the mean-
time, I had another baby and I started my business from home.
And you guys might ask, like, why the sudden career change? As
I was nearing the end of my degree, I had a lot of discussions with
all of my teachers, who all said the same thing. In pursuit of my
dreams that I was going towards, I needed experience that I still
did not have. I had the education, but I lacked the experience.
So I decided, I am just going to do something that keeps me
home. I have two kids, and that is what makes sense. I was dis-
11
heartened, but I was tired of fighting the system. So, thus, Break-
able Hearts was formed.
I opened Breakable Hearts with my mom, who is back there. We
had no idea what we were doing or how we were going to do it,
but we were determined. I drew on all the strengths that I had de-
veloped while in the military, such as leadership, management, and
attention to detail.
We soared. We have only actively been in business for 2-1/2
years, and we have been awarded the Couple’s Choice Award 2022,
Best of Zola 2023, Best Rising Star Bakery of 2023, and we have
been published in numerous magazines and articles.
So why am I here? We have hit a growth stopping point. We
have maxed out the capacity of our time and space for the numbers
of orders we are receiving. We reached out to our small SBA lend-
er, who told us that, to move forward, we needed to complete a list
of tasks to apply for a loan and that we should investigate grants,
because our main setback is the capital.
We self-funded the business from the very beginning until the
business started paying for itself. We spent hours researching
grants and angel investors and even reached out to the Wounded
Warrior Project for any resources that they might have in connec-
tion for grants for veterans, women veterans, or small-business vet-
erans. And I found hundreds—but none that applied to me.
I tried to do my own research on funding a storefront, build-outs,
employees, and I hit a brick wall. I don’t have the capital to do it
myself, I don’t meet the criteria for a grant, and I can’t get a loan
without the capital for a downpayment. When I asked if there were
any veteran-specific SBA loans for women veteran—women veteran
programs, she let me know there was not.
And, at this point, I feel like I have maxed out my resources and
contacts to move forward. I remember Boots to Business listing
tons of resources for veterans, but I can’t recall them from 7 years
ago.
Why I am here today is to show you how a story like mine can
go from a thriving small business to a hobby very quickly. Without
the resources or connections to move forward, we are never going
to be able to take a home business to a local business.
Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. I now recognize Mr.
Hyacinthe for his 5-minute opening remarks.
STATEMENT OF PETTY OFFICER SECOND CLASS MICHAEL
HYACINTHE
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you.
Hello, honorable and esteemed Committee Members. My name is
Michael Hyacinthe. My twin brother and I are proud to have
served in the military. I served 8 years as a U.S. Navy Seabee, and
my twin served 20 years as a combat medic in the Army. I am
originally from the Bronx, New York, but I currently reside in
Grand Rapids, Michigan.
I am here today not solely because of my own abilities but be-
cause my faith has guided me here. I am here today because my
parents have instilled good values like hard work and sacrifice for
me to be here. I am here today because of my kids, whose hopes
12
and dreams for a better future have made it necessary for me to
be here. And, finally, I am here today because the Navy has devel-
oped me as a leader and helped me to see my full potential, pro-
viding a path for me to be here.
I come to you feeling hopeful because we remain the country
with the bravest heroes who are prepared to make the ultimate
sacrifice so that many of us can become entrepreneurs.
I think about the families I have been honored to know while
serving on the Casualty Assistance Team in the Bronx, New York.
I remember Corporal Daane DeBoer, a Grand Rapids Marine killed
in Afghanistan on his first deployment; he, along with the many
heroes that have inspired me to keep striving. And because of their
great sacrifice, I will never forget them. I will be forever in their
debt, and they will forever be a part of my story.
I separated from the military in 2005 but struggled to re-
integrate and feel accepted. I drove a New York City yellow cab for
2 years, looking for my next mission. Like many other veterans, we
come out different than we joined. We are older. Physical disabil-
ities or mental challenges may now be a part of our stories.
Mapping out my purpose proved challenging, but fortunately I
found an opportunity to become an entrepreneur in Grand Rapids,
Michigan. My first business venture involved helping wounded vet-
erans find healing through art. As a result of this mission, I
launched a nonprofit organization called HAS HEART to help vet-
erans and the creative community use art for expression, con-
necting, and healing.
My work with HAS HEART indirectly opened the door to launch-
ing a multimedia children’s company called Wimage, or ‘‘words to
images.’’ Wimage started as a tool to help veterans turn words into
images so that they could become independent creatives, but dur-
ing our testing, we saw an opportunity to help kids at an early age,
so we pivoted and began using the app to help kids improve their
literacy skills and help them to become visual storytellers.
But while developing the technology, we needed a kid-friendly
character, so we created Wimee, the lovable robot that you see be-
hind me. The success of the Wimee character took us into class-
rooms throughout Grand Rapids.
But, like everywhere in America, the pandemic disrupted our
work, so we needed to find another opportunity to engage children
at home. We created the Wimee show as an online tool. Our online
show, called ‘‘Wimee’s Words,’’ started in our basement, moved to
our attic, and quickly expanded to 20 national PBS markets, reach-
ing millions of households.
The success of our show helped us land a three-book deal with
Zonderkidz, an imprint of HarperCollins. We believe this oppor-
tunity will help Wimee to become a household name and continue
to inspire the next generation of creators, storytellers, and
innovators. Our first book, ‘‘Wimee Creates,’’ which I am holding,
launches July 18.
Like so many other veterans, my journey has been complex and
full of challenges. While I am very fortunate to share my story,
many other veterans still struggle with the lack of support, re-
sources, and funding.
13
Over the last century, our vets have helped to rebuild towns and
communities through entrepreneurship to help make America the
most successful economy in the world. But many veterans are still
left unsupported, or their ideas remain unheard.
To help these veterans, we would love to see organizations like
AAFES, the Navy Exchange, the Commissary, and the VA Can-
teens create opportunities for veteran entrepreneurs to pilot life-
style and consumer products through their retail systems, just like
the other big retailers do for underrepresented creators. This could
help veterans learn and develop a market for their prototypes by
offering a place for them to pilot their ideas. I personally would
love to introduce Wimee to kids and family members on military
bases.
Overall, we salute this body for your efforts to help veterans ex-
pand their entrepreneurial spirit. We are grateful for the Boots to
Business initiative.
However, more funding could go directly to veterans and seed
their ideas, like we have done through the Michigan Veterans En-
trepreneurship Lab in Grand Valley State University at Grand
Rapids, Michigan. Since many veterans, especially minority and fe-
male veterans, struggle with getting financial funding, we award
cash prizes to graduates through MVE.
The GI Bill could also be revamped and used as a financial tool
to help veterans start or launch their businesses, rather than lim-
iting the use of the funds strictly to educational programs.
Artist Vincent Van Gogh once said, ‘‘If you hear a voice within
you that says you cannot paint, then by all means paint. Then that
voice will be silenced.’’
Chairman WILLIAMS. Ten seconds.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Like Van Gogh, we need to empower
our veterans to pursue their ideas and imaginations.
Thank you for your time and your consideration. I especially
want to thank Congresswoman Hillary Scholten and Chairman
Williams for this opportunity to be a voice for our heroes.
Finally, I want to thank all who have supported me throughout
my journey in New York and Grand Rapids. I would not be here
without your prayers, love, and support. I am blessed and grateful.
And hooyah. Go, Navy Seabees.
Chairman WILLIAMS. I thank the witnesses.
And now we will move to the Member questions under the 5-
minute rule.
I will recognize myself for 5 minutes.
I mentioned this in my opening statement, but, back in March,
I had the pleasure of sitting in on a Boots to Business seminar at
Fort Cavazos with SBA Administrator Guzman. And while the Ad-
ministrator and I have very different political perspectives on how
the country should be run, we could both come together to see how
this program is beneficial to the servicemen and -women
transitioning out of their Active Duty status and into the private
sector.
And we listened to many of these young servicemembers who
were thinking about what they wanted to do once they no longer
had the structure in place for the military. There were people that
wanted to start industrial cleaning businesses, bakery shops, even
14
underwater welding operations. These individuals had the cre-
ativity and drive to be great entrepreneurs, and this training pro-
gram was meant to help them get their feet under them.
So, Ms. Weaver, you participated in the Boots to Business pro-
gram, as you said. What drove you to participate in the training
course? And what message did you have for current military mem-
bers that are considering participating in the program?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. I did take the class when I was
transitioning out through TAPS. And what inspired me to take it
was, at the time, I was patenting an invention, and so I thought
that I was going to be manufacturing, distributing this product,
and so I wanted to learn at that time about business. I wanted to
know, how do I transition? How do I go from boots to business? I
mean, that is what drew me in, that is what made me take the
class. I wanted to know, how do I, as a veteran, go back into the
civilian world and go, literally, from boots to business?
And I would recommend that class to absolutely anyone
transitioning out of the military. It had so much information, so
many resources. The only thing I would say is just the continuity
of it following after once you are out of the military.
Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Small-business owners are facing many
economic headwinds. From stubbornly high inflation to rising inter-
est rates, the margins of many businesses are being squeezed.
Another thing that can add to these hardships are overly burden-
some regulations. And I started asking the agencies some simple
questions whenever they propose a new rule: What is the number
of small businesses impacted by this rule, we ask. And how much
will these new requirements cost small businesses? And where can
the affected entities find the information on how to comply?
So, Mr. Burks, do you think all agencies should be able to answer
these simple questions? And can you discuss how your business
deals with regulations coming out of Washington?
Commander BURKS. Yes. That is really the tragedy and the
struggle with small-business owners, is that the number, the myr-
iad of regulations that come out of not just Washington, D.C. State
governments, local governments, zoning—commissions can be pret-
ty, I don’t know, tyrannical at the local level.
And a lot of small-business owners don’t even know when we are
running afoul of these regulations. You try to comply as best you
can, and what these agencies do is, they show up to prove a viola-
tion, rather than to help a small-business owner deal and navigate
their bureaucracy.
Chairman WILLIAMS. It would be better to have a partner than
an adversary, wouldn’t it?
Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. Absolutely.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Quezada, not only did you start your
own barbershop that has been successful in its own right, but you
also operate the space for other businesses to operate. And this is
a great way to employ some people and give other people the oppor-
tunity to live out the American Dream.
So how would you suggest newly returned veteran entrepreneurs
engage in their community?
15
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes. Thank you for that question, Mr. Wil-
liams.
So, with us, after 4 years of the barbershop, and partnering with
my buddy, Jesse Burke, our main focus was really due to service
within the community at large. So, both of us being veterans and,
kind of, within our blood, naturally being the service-minded indi-
viduals, like all of us up here, to our country, we really just had
the humility to get out of our own way and seek individuals within
the private sector that had already had it figured out or were fur-
ther along the business channels than we were and ask for help
and advice.
That really led to the ability for us to move forward and find the
success that we are at right now, and, in doing so, opening up one
business that, like I had mentioned before, now houses seven busi-
nesses that we own.
So, hope that suffices.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Hard work.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Open it up in the morning and close at
night.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Yeah.
I would now like to recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes
of questions.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hyacinthe, yesterday, this committee voted to codify the
Boots to Business program. Can you please comment briefly on the
value of the program based on the interactions you have with vet-
erans that have utilized the program?
I am really excited to hear you, Ms. Weaver, and to see how valu-
able the program was for you. I would like for you to comment on
anything that you feel should be added to the program or should
be changed regarding Boots to Business.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you for the question, Ranking
Member.
Yes, many of the veterans that I have had an opportunity to con-
nect with have had—find experiences in the Boots to Business ini-
tiative, with one ask: Many of them are looking for capital.
The main barrier—and I believe we all understand that—is ac-
cess to capital. That remains the biggest barrier to any veteran,
from ideation stage to launching an idea. It really requires re-
sources, mentorship. But, at some point, there has to be funding
behind it so that the education that the veterans have learned can
actually go out and be tested.
And that is what we have done with the initiative at Grand Val-
ley State University. And we teach the veterans, and then we
award them cash prizes so that they can take their ideas and go
out and seed them.
So, overall, Boots to Business is a great initiative. We would just
love to see that there is actually some capital supported to the vet-
erans.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Yes, Ms. Weaver.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Thank you.
16
The only thing—the class is amazing. It provides so many re-
sources. But when I got out of the Air Force, like I said in my testi-
mony, all of that information got put somewhere else while I navi-
gated my life as a civilian.
It would be nice if the information that we learned—we do get
a book to take home with us, but things get lost when you move
back to the United States from a different country or you are mov-
ing from State to State, you know, because my husband was still
Active Duty military at the time. And the continuity of it, the pro-
gram being available online or something like that, where—and the
networking connections that you make while you are in Boots to
Business, or the other people who facilitate the same ideas as you
in the class, it would be nice to have that continue once you get
out, once you move around.
Because, like most of us can say, we have lost so many connec-
tions throughout our military careers and as veterans, when people
uproot their lives and move. They move, and you lose connections.
And so that would be my suggestion. Thank you.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Mr. Quezada, your business is special because it focuses on work-
force and professional development. Did your experience in the
military and your transition help inspire this attitude toward busi-
ness?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, ma’am. So I learned really early on in
my military career and then transitioning into my civilian life and
within business the power of networking and the power of task del-
egating and allowing your team underneath you to fail or succeed,
finding their own autonomy within the organization that really
leverages their strengths and provides some level of joy or meaning
within their job.
So I started working with our local organization, which is
NACOG, Northern Arizona Council of Governments, which—there
are several other locations like that within the State of Arizona, to
include several other States, I believe all 50 States actually, within
the United States.
I found the most amount of success with working with them, be-
cause they are a local grant organization that has funds dedicated
from the federal government in order to come alongside and help
support local businesses, whether that be through sending some of
our team through further education or classes on job specifications
or, as they move upward into the business or organization at dif-
ferent levels, the support that comes alongside, where they will join
in and help us cover some of their salaries or pay for an extended
period of time.
So that relationship has been extremely helpful for us on our
end. And, you know, we took advantage of that and had an awe-
some partnership within our own community that really went out
of their way to work with us and other businesses like ours.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
My time has expired. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Luetkemeyer from
the great State of Missouri for 5 minutes.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17
Mr. Taylor—or, Mr. Burks, you talk in your testimony about the
GI Bill’s Yellow Ribbon Program and you had some frustrations
with that. Can you elaborate a little further on that, please?
Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. So the Yellow Ribbon Program
was a blessing. I would not have been able to afford a private insti-
tution like Washington University without that.
Where the gulf was is bringing and translating my military skills
for a, you know, at the time, new business school graduate to the
job market in St. Louis. And so, when you leave Active Duty—ex-
cuse me—when you join the military, you leave behind your family
support, and you build your new network in the military. Then you
leave the military, and you go back home and have to rebuild your
network again.
That was really the gulf that I saw through the Yellow Ribbon
Program. The education was phenomenal, and blessed to have it.
How do I take that and my experience and build an entirely new
network after being away from home for 8-plus years, or 20 years
if I was retiring? That is that frustration and difficulty and where
I hope that we can provide better support to recently transitioning
veterans.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. You have been involved with and continue
to be involved with multiple businesses. What are some of the com-
mon problems and concerns you have with running those busi-
nesses, especially with regulations, taxes, whatever the problem is?
Commander BURKS. Yeah. Uncertainty.
I think that, you know, we double our workforce in our indus-
try—agriculture, landscaping, retail wholesale of green products—
we double our workforce every year from March to November, and
we bring in a lot of legal guestworkers to the United States to do
that. Every year, it is a roll of the dice, how we are going to get
those guestworkers, where do we land on number of visas, or if it
goes through altogether. That uncertainty makes it difficult for us
to plan beyond a 12-month timeframe for budget projections, rev-
enue projections, future-year hiring, expansion plans.
That is a quick and easy answer that I can give you from my in-
dustry. I could tell you, with the entertainment side, the gulf in-
dustry, our outdoor sports complex, local regulations have bitten us
time and time again. And you can have an architect and you can
have the best team behind you, and then a bureaucrat from local
government shows up and says, ‘‘You can’t put a ball dispenser
there. It has to be over there.’’ Well, that costs you $20,000 to make
a change like that.
So, without a doubt, uncertainty throws, I think, each of us for
a curve, regardless of what your industry is, and being able to pre-
dict that. Beyond what our size is, we can’t have consultants and
staff to do everything for us. But that is where small business, re-
gardless of your veteran status, struggles.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Very good.
You know, we are here—first, thank all of you for your service.
It is interesting that we have this hearing 2 or 3 days here before
Memorial Day. So, you know, it is a special day remembering those
folks who have served our country and weren’t able to come back
home.
18
So I think it is very timely that we have all of you here to show
our respect for you, for the work that you have done, the job you
have done to be able to protect our country, serve our country. So
I just thank you.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
I now recognize Mr. Mfume from Maryland, the great State of
Maryland, for 5 minutes.
Mr. MFUME. Thank you, sir. It is a great State. I want to thank
you for holding this hearing, and I want to also thank Ms.
Velázquez, as the Ranking Member, for joining you in that effort.
And, as was said earlier, this is a significant time, as Memorial
Day approaches, and we have an opportunity to remember why we
celebrate Memorial Day, why it is so very important to our nation,
and why it is particularly important to those veterans who are still
with us on this side of creation and the remembrance that is so
very much a part of that.
I am happy to celebrate this coming Memorial Day, Mr. Chair-
man, recognizing that I have 120 veteran-owned businesses in my
congressional district. They provide a service or a product. They
are providing a great deal of assistance to the fabric, the economic
fabric, of the greater Baltimore area. And we salute them on more
occasions than one.
These businesses span several industries, including but not lim-
ited to construction companies, technology companies, government
contractors, food wholesalers, and et cetera. They contribute in a
way that we sometimes take for granted because there are so many
small businesses. And I want to, if I might, kind of delineate what
I see is a common thread in the fabric of opening and maintaining
a small business in this country.
And I would like to start, if I might, in thanking all of you, obvi-
ously.
But, Mr. Hyacinthe, can you just kind of walk me down your own
set of ideas? I know that a veteran-owned business is facing, in
many instances, some of the same problems that a woman-owned
business or a minority business faces. And it is not some of the ob-
vious things, like bonding issues or cash flow or market flexibility.
It tends to be the two giant impediments that have been with us
for years—a lack of access to capital, lack of access to credit.
And I would like to get your thoughts. I heard you say in your
testimony that you thought it might be a creative and expedient
way to deal with startup capital by being able to use excess or un-
used GI funds particularly as startup capital or maintenance cap-
ital. Can you talk about why that is important to you?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Yes. Thank you so much.
We are living in a digital age, and the jobs of this century re-
quire veterans to have access to capital. Fifty, you know, years ago,
when our World War II veterans came home, those jobs were pri-
marily technical, mechanical, and so that is where 50 percent of
our veterans were able to create jobs. But now these jobs that have
to be created require funding.
And so, while we are providing veterans the education—and in
many communities where I am from, many veterans who look like
me, the number-one thing that they tell you is that you need an
19
education to go get a—to start a business. However, when others
come back home who perhaps have access to resources, that edu-
cation is not the main element.
Mr. MFUME. Uh-huh.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Now, I am not eliminating the value
of education, because I do believe education is extremely important,
and it is what got me here. But the education without access to
capital, I believe, puts our veterans back at square one, trying to
figure out who they are, what they are doing, and trying to navi-
gate this very chaotic world of entrepreneurship.
Mr. MFUME. Yeah. We push back against lending institutions
also, reminding them that on the other side from capital is the abil-
ity to access credit and the need to extend credit lines, particularly
to veterans who are starting out.
I don’t have a lot of time, but I would ask if any of you would
share some thoughts on what you think might be done to better
make the SBA hear you, work with you, and help you to become
successful. Because I sense the thread in all of your testimonies
that there are inherent issues there, whether it is paperwork or
something else, that really causes you not to perform at your max-
imum level.
Anyone?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah, I will add that—so I live in a rural
community, about 45,000 people. The region as a whole is about
120,000 people. We have gone down the SBA route a couple dif-
ferent times with the 7(a) and the 504, and both times working
with the local bankers.
The local regional bankers are not as adept at working within
the construct of the SBA. And so, normally, the help that we had
to find was being pushed down to Phoenix and some of the larger
banks down there. Some of the larger, more national banks that
are——
Chairman WILLIAMS. Time is up.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Time is up? Okay.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
Mr. MFUME. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Meuser from Penn-
sylvania for 5 minutes.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
And thank you to our nation’s military veterans for being with
us, and current entrepreneurs. Your testimonies are inspiring,
truly, to all of us. Thank you, of course, for your service. And it is
just very interesting to hear about your businesses and your plans
and your trials and tribulations.
So, you know, let me start with Mr. Quezada.
May I call you ‘‘Sergeant’’?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir.
Mr. MEUSER. All right. Thank you, sir.
Sergeant QUEZADA. I haven’t been called that in a while.
Mr. MEUSER. Yeah.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah.
Mr. MEUSER. Well, I haven’t had the mistake of calling a ser-
geant ‘‘sir’’ in a while, so I haven’t gotten kicked in the butt. Yeah,
so——
20
Sergeant QUEZADA. All right.
Mr. MEUSER.—I can appreciate it. Or calling a ma’am a sir,
that gets you in trouble too.
So you are talking about your difficulties. You were mentioning
that in your opening testimony, and red tape, bureaucratic hurdles.
I mean, obviously, SBA, we are supposed to be here to make things
easier for you in setting up your businesses.
Share a little bit more about some specific examples perhaps.
And then maybe add what works, what has been provided to you
by the SBA, maybe even a local chamber, veterans services, that
has worked for you.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Sure.
So let me elaborate a little bit about what Founding Fathers is
first, because I know I said it is a barbershop. So we have a nine-
chair barbershop. We have the largest tap wall for beer in the
State of Arizona. We have a members-only speakeasy. We have a
cigar and whiskey lounge. We have a functional fitness gym.
We——
Mr. MEUSER. Could you give us the address of that place?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah. We have a jiu-jitsu academy, a coffee
shop, and a retail shop all in one facility.
So, when we bought the building and we had the entire concept,
our original pitch-deck was about 180 pages. We had to dwindle
that down to something more manageable, about 40 pages. We
shopped around our local market for about a month or two, and no-
body would—everybody came back with, ‘‘Hey, awesome idea, but
we are not going to provide funding for that.’’
I spent the next 10 months, on a weekly basis, going down to
Phoenix in order to search for capital down there within the Scotts-
dale area. And it was through a really good friend of mine, who is
a lieutenant colonel in the Army, who works within the financial
sector, that was willing to sacrifice a lot of his time and put me
in front of the right people, that we found the capital to tackle our
project. So that was about $4.5 million, we are at now.
And from the get-go and how we structured the entire business
and brand was very much focused on, how are we growing this
thing to scale and bringing this into other neighborhoods, B-class
markets, where we are offering, really, the hospitality focus? And
as myself and Jesse, my business partner, are very community-
minded and civic-driven, our core values are community, connec-
tion, and care. And so, how are we bringing people together
through these consolidated businesses under one roof?
I will go back to, the continued support that we have seen and
continually receive throughout our community has largely come
from individuals, other business leaders, and veteran business
owners who believe in what we are doing and have helped fund,
you know, largely in loans or other——
Mr. MEUSER. That takes time, as you were saying——
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir.
Mr. MEUSER.—coming back from service, making those sort of
contacts for the primary purpose of access to capital. Because the
hard work was in you, the plan was there, but the access to cap-
ital——
21
And, Commander, let me ask you, on the SBA 7(a) or 504, other
lending programs, none of that has been utilized or helpful to you?
Commander BURKS. No. Our success is with private equity. And
I think that the SBA loan programs are a little bit of a mirage
sometimes.
Especially if you have something that can be a meaningful busi-
ness idea, like Sergeant Quezada’s concept or what we do in Co-
lumbia—any business idea, you have to pitch the idea. And, as a
veteran, you can sell yourself and your skills and what you bring
to the table, but you have to sell the idea. And you are doing that
with private equity. That is where we have seen success.
Mr. MEUSER. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Sailor, I would like to just ask you, if you don’t mind, you
are talking about access to capital quite a bit. What are your
means, and what has your success been, and what has been the
lack thereof?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Awesome. Thank you so much for
the question.
It is earned revenue. That is how we have been able to monetize,
in addition with some friends and family as a startup venture.
But I join, you know, my fellow veterans here. While we com-
mend the efforts of the SBA, many times there has been a lot of
barriers, whether it is just the length in processing——
Sorry. We are running out of time. I am going to put in one last
question, and maybe you can provide it to me afterwards.
If you were sitting in my seat—and you almost were, Com-
mander—tell me what you would do if you were sitting in my seat.
And maybe you could send that to us in writing. Thank you.
I yield back, Chairman.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
I now recognize Ms. Scholten from the great State of Michigan
for 5 minutes.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
And thank you to all of our witnesses for coming today and for
your brave service to our country.
Data indicates that veteran entrepreneurs often start businesses
years after their separation from the military. Part of this is be-
cause many veterans face difficult transition times from military to
civilian life.
Michael, Mr. Hyacinthe, you talked in your testimony about the
great work happening in West Michigan in the Michigan Veterans
Entrepreneurship Lab at Grand Valley State University. This pro-
gram, like the SBA Boots to Business Program that I voted to cod-
ify yesterday, provides important support and resources to veteran
entrepreneurs.
So my question for you is, if you could just briefly elaborate on
GVSU’s Veteran Entrepreneurship Lab, how it has prepared you
and other veterans to start their small businesses. Specifically, if
you could talk about what impact this program has had on minor-
ity and female veterans.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Great question. Thank you so much
for the time and, of course, your service to our district.
Yeah, so the MVE Lab, which is the Michigan Veterans Entre-
preneurship Lab, launched in 2018 as a result of meeting with fel-
22
low student veterans at Grand Valley State University who wanted
to develop ideas to start businesses.
And so myself, in addition to our director, Shorouq Almallah, we
said let’s connect and let’s see if we can create a template that
would create education, which is a 10-week cohort that allows the
veterans to come into our classroom, learn the fundamentals of ide-
ation, business planning, and then business pitching. And the ma-
jority of our cohort members happen to be minority veterans as
well as women veterans.
And as we were doing some testing, we got some input from
them stating that this education is great, but the biggest thing that
we still will face is access to capital. And so we then decided to cre-
ate an opportunity where these veterans, once they have completed
the 10-week cohort, and we did a business pitch competition, we
would award $20,000 to the cohort.
And I am happy to say that, since 2018, we have graduated 200
veterans, and we have given away close to $250,000, nondiluted
capital, so that these veterans can go out and test their ideas after
they have been educated.
And I truly believe in the Boots to Business initiative. As we
have seen, a lot of the ideas that come to the MVE Lab started
from Boots to Business, but then these veterans needed another
place to continue their process with hopes of potentially getting
capital. And the data has shown us that once the veteran has been
educated and they have got access to capital, that is where the en-
trepreneurs truly are lasting.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much. That is really insightful.
My last question. As Ranking Member of the Small Business
Committee on Contracting and Infrastructure, I am committed to
ensuring that veteran-owned small businesses have the resources
that they need to succeed in the federal procurement process. So
many of the small businesses who engage in federal contracting is
in the defense space. No better small business owner than our vet-
erans to do that.
My question is to all of our witnesses. What barriers are there
in place that prevent veteran entrepreneurs from entering the fed-
eral contracting market, and how can this Committee work to re-
move those barriers?
Commander BURKS. Congresswoman, if I could speak on that.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Sure.
Commander BURKS. As a supply corps officer, I dealt with con-
tracting in my military career as well as at the university at State
of Missouri.
The complication of the contracting procurement process restricts
new people from entering it. You have to have a degree in that just
to try to navigate it. And my company has tried a couple of times.
It is on my strategic to-do list for Rost, Incorporated. But by and
large, there is a whole cadre, tens of thousands of federal con-
tracting officers, and as a small business owner, you can’t navigate
that.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. We would love to follow up.
And for our other witnesses, if you have thoughts, would like to
share any, please feel free to submit those in writing, as I know
we are running out of time.
23
And with that, I will yield back. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
I now recognize Mr. Alford from the great State of Missouri for
5 minutes.
Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks to our witnesses, once again, for being here today. Great
to see you. I know it is a pain to get here to Washington on your
own dime. It is an investment in what we are doing in this Com-
mittee. It is an investment in America. And I applaud you for doing
that, and I also applaud you for your service.
This is a really meaningful hearing for our district. I am proud
to sit on the House Armed Services Committee as well. Our district
has Whiteman Air Force Base, Fort Leonard Wood, really power-
house bases. We have a large veteran population as well because
of those bases.
This district is also very rural, as you know, Commander. And
it creates a lot of challenges, I think, having that mix of a large
veteran population and also a rural area. And it really compounds
the challenges faced by veterans trying to start a small business
in our district.
While the Small Business Administration has programs, as we
have talked about, helping veterans, they are not always utilized,
as we have already heard. And we need to find out why that is,
and how do we change them so they are utilized. Does the veteran
community know about these programs? Do we need to do a better
job advertising them? Or have veterans tried these and it just
doesn’t work out for whatever reason? What can the SBA do bet-
ter? What are some changes that we need to help with?
I believe it is this Committee’s job to create an environment for
small business owners to succeed. That is the key.
So I would like to start with you, Commander Burks. And I want
to follow up with Mr. Meuser’s question. I think it was a very im-
portant question. If you would like to go and answer that.
Why are you and other veterans not able to take advantage of
these programs?
Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. And I appreciate the question and
the chance to maybe dig a little deeper into that. And I am sure
my fellow veterans up here have ideas as well.
What we have seen at Rost, Inc., is that access to capital re-
quires certain guarantees. And there is no real certainty from us—
or excuse me—there is no real benefit to us to use the SBA loan
program. Where we have been successful, again, is private equity
investors in mid-Missouri who we go to, talk the idea, talk about
our idea, and they understand that either they or us are going to
guarantee that loan.
If Rost, Inc., was a new business, if we were starting up, not an
established business, those expansion ideas wouldn’t happen. You
know, our 10 million investment in a new outdoor entertainment
complex in mid-Missouri wouldn’t happen if I had to go to the SBA
for a loan guarantee. And that is the reality of it.
So I am happy to dig into Mr. Meuser’s request because I think
that we have some really good ideas up here on how those guaran-
tees could occur and improve that access to capital. It doesn’t have
24
to be grants. I mean, I am sure that is helpful. But that guarantee
so we can make these ideas come to fruition is better.
Mr. ALFORD. Anyone else on the panel?
Yes, sir.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Yes. Thank you so much for that
question.
Ultimately, I do believe that the SBA has become a systematic
machine, and it has lost the ability to understand the humanity be-
hind the ventures. That is where a person can go out to a private
equity, because while private equity can be, at times, challenging,
there still is a human behind it who is willing to hear the story
of this entrepreneur, who is willing to meet this entrepreneur, who
is willing to see the stories of how he has been able to struggle and
get to where he or she is at right now, thus providing them an op-
portunity to make a decision where that funding can come from.
Whereas, the SBA—we really don’t know who is behind the SBA
to make that connection.
And so if there is an opportunity to bring the connection local,
to have that one-on-one opportunity to meet their veterans and
hear our stories, perhaps there is an opportunity to make some
changes that some funding can start rolling to those who have
served our country.
Mr. ALFORD. To make it more relational between SBA and the
borrower?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Absolutely.
Mr. ALFORD. Taylor, would you like to comment?
Commander BURKS. Yeah. I mean, our regional banks—we have
phenomenal relationships with our regional banks in mid-Missouri,
and they have relationship managers that we work with for our
loans. And don’t know who I would go to for the SBA for a veteran-
specific loan program.
Mr. ALFORD. I think that is something we need to make better
in the SBA, and I am so glad I am on this Committee to try to help
along.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
I now recognize Mr. Thanedar from the great State of Michigan
for 5 minutes.
Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you, Chair.
Firstly, thank you all for your service and commitment to our
country. And as a fellow entrepreneur, I appreciate and love your
stories.
According to the Census Bureau, veteran-owned businesses com-
prise about 5.6 percent of all businesses. Like our witnesses here
today, veterans are reliable and resilient savers of small businesses
nationwide.
In Michigan, some of the best-ran businesses are veteran-owned,
including Detroit-based Wolverine Packing Company, which was
founded in 1937. A true testament of veteran leadership and re-
solve. However, the rate of entrepreneurship has significantly de-
creased over time. The need to increase the number of veteran-
owned businesses is long overdue.
Mr. Quezada, can you expand upon the ideas that went into your
first venture at the John Hancock Barbershop? What inspired you
25
to start your first business, and do you think the success you
gained there was aided by your experience in the military?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes. I am sure I am going to hear this from
Senator [sic] Crane. But prior to my special operations experience,
I was a hairdresser, and then went into the military and did that.
And when I got out, I went to barber school. So for me, when I
moved back to Prescott, it was very apparent that the niche was
in the barbershops. There was a lack of barbershops within my
community. There was about 11, and there was 160 salons. So that
was the direction I went. And as soon as I started the business, I
knew I needed to work myself out of that business as fast as pos-
sible, and it needed to have its own identity with the focus of
growth and a proper direction moving forward within the commu-
nity.
So from pretty much the genesis of that specific business, the in-
tention was always to remove myself, empower others, provide
solid careers for my team, and then continue to grow ongoing ven-
tures within the community. That really did come from the support
of other business leaders and owners within my community, largely
starting with—as I am cutting several of these gentlemen’s hair, of
course, I was able to build a lot of rapport and relationships with
them, and then through a couple years, very quickly continued to
move and grow into what Founding Fathers is now.
So I just highly recommend for veterans, as they step outside,
the power to really build relationships and rapport and have the
humility to ask for help. It really does come from a handshake and
looking somebody in the eye. I know that all of you up here, men
and women, that believe in the organization of what the SBA is,
but at some point too, it is a bureaucratic system. And I have seen
capital move just more quickly through the private sector because
a handshake goes a long way, so——
Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you. Thank you.
Also, it is commonly understood that hiring veterans is associ-
ated with great teamwork, a sense of duty, and accountability. Yet
according to Pew Research Center, only one in four veterans have
a job lined up after leaving the Armed Forces.
Ms. Weaver, you mentioned feeling stuck in your career after
transitioning out of the military, despite having a bachelor’s degree
and a unique skill set. Can you elaborate on how this Committee
may be able to better support veterans transitioning into the civil-
ian workforce?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Thank you for your question. I think
there—when I was doing my resume in TAPs when I was exiting
the military, we go our whole career learning to write bullet format
of all of our accomplishments, accolades, awards, everything like
that, and most of us in TAPs did the exact same thing on our re-
sume. You know, we have saved this much money, we have re-
duced this much error.
And we were—you know, while we were there, we were being
taught how to change to speak in civilian language. And I think
that goes a lot—and it could help a lot if we could learn how to
translate our skill set into the civilian language, because we really
only know how to communicate using military terms and acronyms
and everything like that.
26
Thank you.
Mr. THANEDAR. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Weaver.
I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Crane from the great
State of Arizona for 5 minutes.
Mr. CRANE. Thank you all for coming today. I really appreciate
it. I know I speak for the panel when I say that.
I want to ask a quick question, real quick, starting with Mr.
Burks.
Mr. Burks, would you say you are impressed with the efficiency
of the federal government? Yes or no?
Commander BURKS. No.
Mr. CRANE. Mr. Quezada, would you say you are impressed
with the efficiency?
Sergeant QUEZADA. No.
Mr. CRANE. Mrs. Weaver?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. No.
Mr. CRANE. Mr. Hyacinthe? Did I say that right, sir?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Hyacinthe, yes.
Mr. CRANE. Are you impressed with the efficiency of the federal
government?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I think it could be improved.
Mr. CRANE. Okay. Thank you. The reason I ask that question,
guys, is because when we talk about SBA lending money to vet-
erans, you guys realize where that money comes from, right? You
guys. The taxpayer.
Now, I have been a champion for veteran entrepreneurs since I
got out of the Navy, went on the show Shark Tank, and started my
veteran small business. But, you know, I want to encourage you
guys to keep at it, keep working hard. But I want to keep pushing
back on this Committee, you know, that thinks that we are going
to do a good job loaning money to veterans or to anybody else be-
cause, you know what? This town doesn’t do a good job at loaning
money to anybody.
And does anybody up on the panel know how much debt we have
in this country?
Mr. Quezada, do you have any idea?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Trillions.
Mr. CRANE. Thirty-two trillion. Yeah. All right. Now, I am going
to start with my questions real quick.
Mr. Burks mentioned the idea of veterans freshly out of military
buying up established businesses from business owners looking to
retire. I think that is a great thing. A friend of mine, Lynn Lowder,
has something called the Veteran Business Project. If you guys
want to check it out, it is veteranbusinessproject.org. That is what
these guys do for any veterans out there looking to do something
like that.
Next, I want to say, Mr. Hyacinthe, my brother from the Navy,
a Seabee, you guys are awesome, man. I saw you guys do so much
stuff. If you ever have a task that you need done, give it to a Sea-
bee.
Something you said, sir, rung true with me and loud and clear
with me. You said, sir, that you drove a cab for 2 years trying to
find your next mission. I thought that was really cool. And I think,
27
you know, it is one of the things—when I talk to other veterans
that I want to see successful, I want them to understand, because
a lot of veterans don’t understand how hard-wired we are for mis-
sion. And I know that it is important. I could hear it in your testi-
mony. And I am glad, brother, that you found one. And I know you
are going to help a lot of veterans, just because I see it in your
heart and I see it in your product.
My friend, Mr. Quezada, I have seen you do the same thing. You
have developed an amazing business. It is one of the coolest busi-
nesses I have ever been at, which is why I asked you here. It is
not because I enjoy your company at all, for that matter.
But, Mr. Quezada, I know that we have tough economic times
right now with record inflation, high interest rates, and labor
shortages. How have you navigated this economy and continued to
grow your business?
Sergeant QUEZADA. So first off, with the labor shortages, that
has never actually been a problem of ours, largely because we sac-
rifice in the high end when it comes to pay in order to pay even
our lowest wage earning employee a reasonable wage. I believe in
our business, everybody averages about $24 an hour. So it is pret-
ty—that is a pretty good wage for a hospitality job.
Our retention within the business sits at about 80 percent over
2.5 years. A lot of that goes into the backside support that we have
created when it comes to our professional development plans and
weekly and monthly, quarterly followups with each one of our team
members. We know that nobody is going to be working with us or
in hospitality the remainder of their life, and so the ability to step
back and allow for the freedom and the latitude for them to move
on and encourage them or even set them up for wins in their life
as they move forward. So that is—in having that, we weathered
COVID extremely well. We never had to break our hours or fire
any of our team. So that has been a tremendous blessing.
Speaking of the upcoming kind of economic forecast that we are
seeing over the next several quarters into probably Q2 of 2024, I
think really what you will end up seeing largely within the small
business community is probably an increase in price at some level
to offset the cost of what we have seen when it comes to higher
prices in gas or eggs on the shelf or any of the other areas where
we are seeing or feeling the crunch on an economic level within our
own pocketbooks.
Mr. CRANE. Are you guys having to raise your prices to keep up
with the inflation?
Sergeant QUEZADA. For everybody I believe it will be $2, but
for you I think it is 200. So yes.
Mr. CRANE. Real quick, Mr. Hyacinthe, what advice would you
give to veterans getting out of the military that want to be success-
ful?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I believe in mentorship. I believe
that there is an opportunity for them to understand where their
dreams may take them and find someone within that industry and
pursue that. Hard work, hustle, like the Seabees do.
Mr. CRANE. I yield back my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. I now recognize Ms. Chu from Cali-
fornia—the great State of California for 5 minutes.
28
Ms. CHU. Ms. Weaver, I followed your story with interest. You
served your country. You got a master’s degree. You raised a fam-
ily. And then you started to Breakable Hearts, this upscale dessert
company. So—and also, you won awards for it.
So I was dismayed when I heard you say that there weren’t vet-
eran-specific SBA loans, because there are. You know, there is
Community Advantage, which is a program that I want to get per-
manently authorized, but it is in existence now. And it is for people
who might not qualify for any other SBA loan. It is for traditionally
underserved business owners, veteran-owned business owners, mi-
nority and women-owned. And you qualify two ways, you know.
It has more flexible criteria for the loan, but you can get up to
$350,000 for anything from real estate purchases, business expan-
sion, equipment purchases, or working capital. And you don’t need
capital for a down payment.
So my question is, have you heard of this loan?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. No, I have not. I did ask my SBA lend-
er, a local to Nassau County, about any veteran-specific and, unfor-
tunately, I was told there was none, and then halted from the down
payment for the SBA loan that we were trying to work out all the
numbers to see if it was something.
But when you own a bakery, it is not just a place you can lease
with four walls and a door. You have to build out an entire com-
mercial kitchen. And so it just wasn’t something at this point in
time that we were able to move forward with.
Thank you.
Ms. CHU. But this kind of loan could help.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Yes. I will definitely look into it. Thank
you so much.
Ms. CHU. Okay. Please look into it. Okay. Absolutely.
Okay. I would like to ask Mr. Hyacinthe about this. I would like
to know how veterans in your life might react to the following
threats. House Republicans recently passed a partisan bill that will
cut all nondefense discretionary spending across the federal gov-
ernment by 22 percent. The VA says that this would result in 30
million fewer veteran outpatient visits and 81,000 jobs lost across
the Veterans Health Administration. It would worsen wait times
for benefits by eliminating 6,000 staff, and increase the disability
claims backlog by an estimated 134,000 claims.
Additionally, it would cut up to $565 million for upgrades to hos-
pitals and clinics and cut housing vouchers for as many as 50,000
veterans. Finally, it would take food assistance away from vet-
erans, deprive them of mental healthcare services, and eliminate
job training for homeless veterans.
And then there would be the cut to SBA services for veterans.
The SBA stated that these cuts would result in 295,000 fewer en-
trepreneurs and small businesses accessing free business coun-
seling at SBA resource partner groups such as the Veterans Busi-
ness Outreach Centers. Of course, that would negatively impact
thousands of veterans. SBA also stated it would not have sufficient
funding to fully support the Service-Disabled Veteran-Owned Small
Business Certification Program, which currently supports about
35,000 veterans.
So how do you think veterans in your life might react to that?
29
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I think veterans in my life and vet-
erans all over would look at that and see that as a negative. I
mean, it is really tough to truly understand and give veterans an
opportunity to be entrepreneurs if at first we don’t recognize the
mental and physical ailments that veterans come back with.
And so before we can allow a veteran to share their American
dream, we have to make sure that the veteran is able to heal, can
be connected with the community, and can be heard.
So I challenge all those in this Committee to take another look
at this bill, if this is actually something that is getting ready to be
put forward, to truly consider the veterans’ mental health because,
but for our mental health, we—it is tough for us to start a busi-
ness, create a family, run a family or run a job.
Ms. CHU. Thank you for that. And I know you run the Michigan
Veterans Entrepreneurship Lab, which is right in your community,
so easily accessible. We have Veteran Business Outreach Centers,
but some of them are not located in easily accessible places. In fact,
the one that is closest to my area of Los Angeles is 2 hours away.
So how important is it for it to be close by?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I think it has to be close by. And
perhaps should there be opportunities where there are some con-
nections with local entrepreneurship or incubators that houses this
awesome opportunity. So we need to be innovative in commu-
nicating——
Chairman WILLIAMS. Time is up.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE.—and getting this to our veterans.
Ms. CHU. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Now I would like to recognize Mr. Bean
from the great State of Florida for 5 minutes.
Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Let’s go to Liberty Weaver. Liberty Weaver, you have come up
with the genius plan of baking delectable goodies by putting some-
thing inside. Where did you come up with that idea? Where did
that come from?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is chocolate, by the way. It is not
cake.
Mr. BEAN. Okay. Of course.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is actually——
Mr. BEAN. Let’s be clear for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is chocolate.
Mr. BEAN. It is chocolate.
What are some of the things that your clients, people that—what
do they put in your goodies that you make for them?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Well, specifically, the breakable
heart——
Mr. BEAN. Yes.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER.—which is the name of the company. I
mean, they can put anything from jewelry, a gender reveal if they
are pregnant. They can put an ultrasound if they want to let a
loved one know that they are pregnant. You can put gift cards.
Anything under 7 inches will fit under a breakable heart.
Mr. BEAN. I gotcha. Is it true that if—is it true that if I wanted
to order one, I could go to breakableheartsllc.com? Is that true, Ms.
Weaver?
30
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Yes. Yes, very true.
Mr. BEAN. Very good. And you are also—you are on Facebook.
I have been looking at pictures of so many things that Breakable
Hearts makes.
Your challenge, right now, we talked a little—first of all, who is
with you, and what do they do? Your people that you brought with
you in the audience.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. My mom, Megan.
Mr. BEAN. All right.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. She is my co-owner with Breakable
Hearts, and my best friend, Chanel.
Mr. BEAN. Okay. Very good. They are excited to be with you.
What is the challenge right now? Breakable Hearts—is it space?
I know space is a challenge. Tell us about some of the challenges
you are facing right now.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. So raising capital for Breakable
Hearts. We have outgrown working from home. We have a lot of
clients who want to utilize our services, but we don’t have the em-
ployees.
And we have looked into getting loans into expanding and to
growing into a new space, but when you have a bakery, you have
to have employees. You have to have a commercial kitchen out-
fitted specifically for what you are baking. And you have to have
the right square footage for your space because you do have to have
a storefront. You have to have space for trucks to come drop off all
your product. Everything like that.
And that is extremely—I mean, maybe not in the 10 million
range, but for somebody like me who is just a small business trying
to grow into a space, it is expensive. And the down payment alone
is almost upwards of $100,000 to secure the loan. So it is not some-
thing financially feasible for me at this point, and I can’t find the
capital or the resources to get the capital to move forward.
Mr. BEAN. Very good. Is the Boots to Business, is that plan
working? Did you enjoy that? Is it helpful?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. I did enjoy it when I was in. I frankly,
cannot remember 7 years ago the information that I learned, and
I wish I had some way of retaining the information, because I am
sure there is a resource in there I could look up that maybe would
help me at this point.
Mr. BEAN. Gotcha.
Let me ask Commander Burks. Is it working? Boots to Business,
is it working or not working?
Commander BURKS. So I transitioned out of Active Duty prior
to Boots to Business being authorized. So I haven’t experienced
that program.
Mr. BEAN. But if there were a program that would help vet-
erans transcend and capture entrepreneurship leaving, you think
that would be a good thing?
Commander BURKS. Yeah. Certainly not opposed to the concept.
It sounds like it was reauthorized. What I would suggest is that
where we have all seen success is relationships. And if there is an
opportunity for us to foster those relationships transitioning out
with our local community, that is a better way for veterans to enter
entrepreneurship.
31
Mr. BEAN. Gotcha.
Quezada, working?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes, sir. Actually—so I believe I am in the
same boat with Mr. Burks. We never—I don’t believe that program
was around when I left Active Duty. It sounds like, from Ms. Wea-
ver, that obviously she got some traction early on, but over the
course of the last 7 years, 8 years, it has kind of waned a little bit.
I think one of the things that I believe all four of us would prob-
ably be in agreeance on is that, outside of this organization, the
SBA and the support that you are all trying to offer not just vet-
eran small businesses but small businesses in general, I think
there is a disconnect within the language.
Most of us are entrepreneurial minded and, you know, are in
pursuit of capital, but it tends to be most of the people that sit
across the table from us proverbially, whether it is here in D.C. or
a bank, don’t speak the same language. And so there is a dis-
connect when it comes to what we are looking for and how to get
it that way——
Mr. BEAN. So we have a little bit of work to do.
I have got just one brief moment. I want to give the last 20 sec-
onds to Ms. Weaver.
Ms. Weaver, if you could go back and give advice to yourself just
a few years ago getting out of the service, what would you tell
yourself, in 10 seconds or less?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. To network. To network with all the
people in the class and to put those resources somewhere where I
won’t lose them 7 years from now.
Mr. BEAN. Thank you.
Thank you all for your service, and thanks for coming forward
today. Well done.
I yield back.
Mr. ELLZEY. [Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Bean.
I now recognize Ms. Davids from Kansas for 5 minutes.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you.
Thank you to my colleagues, the Chairman, and Ranking Mem-
ber, for holding this hearing today. I am really glad that we are
getting a chance to hear from some of our veteran entrepreneurs.
I am an Army brat. My mom was in the Army for 20 years. She
was a drill sergeant, so I had to do push-ups. It is kind of a joke,
but not really.
So, you know, I think that some of what we have heard today
and some of what I think is so awesome about talking to veteran
entrepreneurs is that, when you think about mission or service,
sacrifice, dedication, I mean, the whole gamut, there are few people
that are better situated to become entrepreneurs than people who
are exiting service.
And so, you know, I have spent my time—I have only been—it
feels like 10 years, but it has been about 4 in Congress on the
Small Business Committee learning about programs like Boots to
Business or the Veteran Business Outreach Centers and training
programs and that sort of thing. I know that these are really valu-
able resources, but I think we have heard a bit about today how
either folks don’t know about them or they might be a bit too bu-
reaucratic and that sort of thing.
32
I do have a bill that I introduced in the last Congress and the
previous one before that called the SERV Act that actually—it is
a bipartisan bill. It addresses exactly these types of needs to under-
stand and make those resources better available.
I did learn something new today, that they are not avail—we
need to get them on—we need to get some of these resources on-
line, it sounds like. So that an alum of the Boots to Business Pro-
gram could make use of those resources.
But, Mr. Quezada, I did want to—you mentioned in your written
testimony and your verbal testimony that you experience some spe-
cific barriers. I was curious if you could kind of expand on those
barriers.
And then just real quick, because I have to—when I come to Ari-
zona next, I will have to come train, because I do jiu-jitsu and
would love to come.
Sergeant QUEZADA. You are in, young lady.
Yeah. So some of the barriers we face with the SBA, specifi-
cally—I believe at one point we tried for the 7(a) and then the 504.
We went through several months of the paperwork being pushed
forward, only to find out at the end—what we had started with the
conversation was to pretty much acquire about $4 million in cap-
ital. We got to the end about 3 months later, and we were told that
the best they could do was $350,000. And so we had wasted quite
a bit of time on that process talking with the bank, the bankers,
several institutions down in Phoenix. So that was slightly disheart-
ening.
And what they ended up finding, the reason was—was a pretty
basic one, which was, hey, we weren’t in business for 2 years yet,
and they somehow had not asked us that, told us that, up until
that point. And when we addressed that, that is kind of what we
got back. So it was quite a bit of ongoing conversations and sitting
down, taking time out of our day within the business to work with
different levels of bankers in the back-and-forth, so——
Ms. DAVIDS. Yeah. And then one of the things that I have
heard, and I just—because I am going to run out of time—is, in ad-
dition to finding out after you have already spent months going
through the process, that it sounds like what seems to be a very
simple piece of information was not made known to you. I also—
it sounds as though there might be barriers in terms of the level
of education.
And so sometimes we see this education versus experience. And
I just would love to follow up with you all after this hearing, be-
cause I do think that, while it might not be sitting in a classroom—
although sometimes it is—veterans, when they have exited service,
certainly have a wealth of experience and knowledge that is prob-
ably much more useful than a 4-year degree in some instances.
So would love to do followup about that specifically with you all.
And thank you for your time and your service.
Mr. ELLZEY. I now recognize Mr. Stauber from Minnesota for 5
minutes.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I just want to reiterate. As my colleagues stated, I want to thank
you all for your service. We have members of the military and vet-
33
erans on both sides of the aisle, and we are very appreciative of
their service. So when we say that, that comes from the heart.
And I want to be very parochial, and I don’t want to upset any
one of you or the veterans on either side of the aisle here. I get
to spend the rest of my life with the greatest veteran alive, and
that is my wife, who spent 25 years in the military, a retired com-
mand chief.
My colleague from California, in my mind, moments ago misled
you all. And I want to be very clear on this. Partisan politics does
not belong putting veteran against veteran or family against fam-
ily. I want to clear the air.
The Limit, Save, Grow Act does not cut veterans’ benefits. The
Limit, Save, Grow Act keeps VA spending in line with fiscal year
2022 levels, like it was just 5 months ago, levels that this President
and this administration applauded when originally passed. My col-
leagues on the other side of the aisle are distorting this fact around
funding levels set by the House Republicans and are simply mak-
ing this claim to undercut our ability to reasonably raise the debt
ceiling and protect our financial security. We will protect our vet-
erans and the care that you earned and were promised.
So with that being said, I am—your testimony is—I am happy
and then I am frustrated. When you talk about the SBA not being
friendly and when you say—I think, Sergeant, you said you can get
better results in the private sector. That is just—it shouldn’t be
that way.
My wife retired in 2010, and called the SBA and the VA for
small loans for a woman veteran. Zero results. So we went through
this as a family some of the things you went through. You are
the—you are the point people for veterans in this country and our
small businesses. You are the big part of the engine and the
innovators of our economy.
And so to hear you talk about the struggles when we have these
programs available. You see, we sit here every week. We talk about
the SBA and how good it can be, and we listen to the administra-
tors of the SBA talk about this, but you are boots on the ground.
You have told us, each and every one of you—when my colleague
Mr. Crane asked, are we doing it right? Can we do it better? Every
one of you said we are not doing it right. That is frustrating.
Lieutenant, in your comments, you talk about—you felt when
you were coming out of service, you were maybe overqualified. Now
as a businessowner, when you look for talent, has that been a ben-
efit for you? You know, you talk about being mission-specific. Tell
us about the benefits that you have——
Commander BURKS. Yeah, like—sir, like any veteran, I think
that my experience—I have grown and continued to learn on how
to translate that. I also believe that the younger veterans that I ex-
perience that come to Rost, Inc., or Midway, I just know and can
speak their language and help them translate.
So my individual experience on that is that, for younger vet-
erans, there is improvement. For older veterans—and I don’t con-
sider myself terribly old, but 16 years in the Navy, you start to be
the older guy on deck. And that is, older generations of veterans,
you know, 40 and above, may not have had the benefit of that. And
34
so how do they access that? Relationally, how do we loop them back
in to the same opportunities that younger veterans are seeing too?
Mr. STAUBER. Right. What I heard you say is the skills that the
veterans bring to the workplace are different than civilians. And I
think one of you mentioned about a 4-year degree.
I think, ma’am, you mentioned a 4-year degree is like a high
school diploma, what have you.
I just think that—I could talk—we could talk a long time, all of
us on both sides of the aisle, in our support for all of you. But I
think that we need to hear this.
And, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member, I appreciate you spend-
ing—number one, having this hearing, and then spending some
time with us talking about the real boots on the ground, where the
rubber meets the road, and being mission-specific to be able to be
successful and entrepreneurs in our great country. And you all
have made it greater because of your service.
And, ma’am, I want to particularly thank you for your service
coming into a male-dominated field and being successful.
Thank you for your service. And we greatly appreciate all of you.
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Stauber.
I now recognize Mr. Pappas from New Hampshire for 5 minutes.
Mr. PAPPAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
And I want to echo those comments, and just thank all of the
Members of our panel here today for your contributions to these
proceedings. I think it is critically important that we hear your
voices as part of our deliberations moving forward to understand
how we can course-correct, make things better, make things
streamlined, more accessible, especially when it comes to our vet-
eran business owners.
And I know that I learn a lot from going around my district and
meeting some great small business owners who are part of the vet-
eran community. I think of one that I met a couple years ago who
talked about his Boots to Business experience. He runs a letter-
press and a framing shop in Laconia, New Hampshire.
And so, Ms. Weaver, I appreciate your comments about that
being a window in time, right? And transition can be a very chaotic
time. There is a lot of information coming at you. And so now that
you are 7 years later, you know, you are finding it challenging to
be able to continue to draw on that experience during that period.
And so I am just wondering pretty simply—you have addressed
this already—but should we be considering ways to have a longer
term look and connection, not just to Boots on Business, but to op-
portunities that have been given to veterans as they transition out
of the military?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Thank you for your question. Abso-
lutely. There just needs to be continuity between when you take
the class and maybe 7 years down the road, maybe a year down
the road. If there was anything available—networking, education—
the Boots to Business was very basic in its approach to what vet-
erans need to know when they are exiting and what they are going
to need to start a business.
But when you are actually starting a business, there are a lot of
things you have no idea what to do. So writing a business plan,
35
doing a profit/loss analysis. You don’t learn any of that. They talk
about it. This is what you may need to know.
But maybe after the Boots to Business class and TAPs—which is
very constrained because of the time requirements—the follow-up
classes are things that you can take, are online seminars, are
teaching you profit/loss analysis, are teaching you how to write a
business plan, how to do a cost analysis of your goods during infla-
tion and stuff like that.
Thank you.
Mr. PAPPAS. Well, thanks for that. I come out of a family small
business experience, and our business has been open 106 years.
And when you have been around that long, there is some momen-
tum to it, but there is so much risk and challenge in opening a new
business. And I want to highlight some of the comments on entre-
preneurship, which I really appreciate.
And, Mr. Quezada, you talked about the collective that you
helped start, which is really incredible and terrific.
And I wanted to highlight one piece of legislation that I have in-
troduced this Congress. It is a 3-year pilot program that would be
overseen by SBA. It would enable hundreds of veterans to use their
GI benefits to pursue entrepreneurial training and educational op-
portunities to help advance their careers.
And I am just wondering if you can reflect on that in the short
description I have given you and talk about the need for SBA and
other agencies to really focus on entrepreneurship.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Well, I want to thank you very much for
pushing that forward. That sounds fantastic. I wish that was an
opportunity when I stepped into business 8 years ago. Hopefully,
that, I guess, moves forward. And outside of it passing, I hope you
guys figure out a way to streamline that to veterans that are get-
ting out in order for them to have access to that capital quickly and
use it, you know, where need be within their business ventures,
so——
Mr. PAPPAS. Yeah. Well, we appreciate all of your comments
here today. And I think one thing that is clear to this Committee
and to those of us who serve in Congress is that veterans have put
themselves on the line for this country, and they often put others
before themselves. That is part of their DNA.
And so when it comes to government agencies, whether it is SBA
or the Department of Veterans Affairs, we have got to make sure
that it is working for the end veteran, working for the end entre-
preneur and business leader, to make sure that these programs are
really geared and effective. And so your feedback is so valuable as
part of that.
So thank you, and I yield back my time.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Pappas.
I now recognize Mr. LaLota from New York for 5 minutes.
Mr. LALOTA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I represent New York’s First Congressional District, the eastern
end of Long Island. Proudly, we are the home to about 27,000 vet-
erans, a very high population for New York State.
My stepfather was a Navy man. My brother served 20 years in
the Marines. And the best job I ever had, including this one, was
being a naval officer where I got to serve alongside some awesome,
36
selfless, brave Americans. And I want to join my colleagues in
thanking you all for your service. Proudly, two of the four of you
are my former shipmates, so appreciate you guys leading the way.
While he is not here with us in person today, I would like to take
a moment to highlight somebody from my district, a veteran, a
small business owner, Stephen Hayduk. He is a Vietnam veteran,
a father, and a former Suffolk County Department of Public Works
commissioner. For almost 40 years, Mr. Hayduk has been at the
helm of Hayduk Engineering, a company renowned for delivering
exceptional, affordable service to its clients, and has served count-
less entrepreneurs.
But from Long Island back to this room, I want to again say
thanks so much for being here. Your testimony, like has been said
before, is helping us craft legislation and budgets and whatnot to
be able to help our veterans community. Our intention is to under-
stand your experiences, explore avenues to make your jobs easier,
to assist you, to uplift you and the entire veteran community. So
we appreciate you being here.
I personally have heard stories from many veteran small busi-
ness owners on difficulties they have encountered along the way,
specifically with the SBA: onerous collateral requirements, Byzan-
tine application processes, having to provide years of lengthy finan-
cial backgrounds. The SBA is supposed to be there to help, but
sometimes they miss the mark, and this Committee is supposed to
fill in that gap when the SBA misses the mark, and your testimony
helps us do that.
Mr. Burks, sir, to you first. I appreciate your service in the na-
tion’s finest branch, the Navy, of course.
Commander BURKS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LALOTA. In your testimony, you talked about unique bar-
riers to entrepreneurship for veterans. Can you share with the
Committee some of those roadblocks? And if you can, advise us on
how we can help clear some of those roadblocks.
Commander BURKS. Yes, sir. And we have talked a little bit—
or certain Members of this Committee have talked a little bit about
the length of small business connections in communities and how—
I have talked about veterans coming back don’t necessarily have
that initial network. So that is, you know, first and foremost what
that is.
I am proud of the United States Navy. I have heard in the past
year or so the United States Navy has added financial literacy to
incoming sailors so that they know from day one, one, the money
they have and the, you know, exotic dancer they meet is not a good
future financial investment. But two, the skills you are learning
can be translated at the end of your service, rather than wait till
the last 90 or 180 days to practice that when you are panicked and
have no clue where you are going next.
And so I think that is what the Navy is aware of, and I think
it seems like a good idea that should yield fruits for future veterans
to do that.
Mr. LALOTA. I may or may not have some leadership experience
with the issue you just pointed out.
Commander BURKS. I am sure you have with that pin.
Mr. LALOTA. Yeah.
37
Nevertheless, Sergeant Quezada, you in your testimony charac-
terized the SBA as wholly ineffective—well-intentioned, but wholly
ineffective. Can you share—help us out. Can you share with this
Committee what we can specifically do to help the SBA in its vet-
erans initiatives?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah. I will just revisit, where I think the
breakdown in communication lies is that, in the spirit of entrepre-
neurship, most individuals, if you are going to be in that type of
role pursuing business, you are very apt to take on risk, weigh the
cost of risk and reward, move forward, adapt, and overcome, and
everything else that goes into business.
However, I think on the other side of the aisle, when it comes
to individuals that are working within the SBA, in order to help
support us and other small business owners within the United
States, I think the breakdown comes where—I would assume most
of them have college educations, and they move straight into a job
in order to help support. And so that is where I was mentioning
the lack of or breakdown of communication because we are not
speaking the same language. And most of us are very used to
adapting, overcoming, and moving very fluidly, or hitting the walls
and finding how to get around or over the barriers, per se. And the
person on the other side who might be trying to help, they just—
they don’t understand kind of the pitfalls of what we are facing or
the urgency, per se. So I think that is——
Mr. LALOTA. One of my colleagues mentioned the GI Bill. Did
I hear you say that you would like to see that the GI Bill be ex-
panded for different uses rather than the traditional uses?
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yes. I think if veterans had the ability to
tap into their GI Bill, whatever that funding might be—let’s say
200 grand or $400,000—if they are able to tap into that and apply
that to a business venture as they leave the military—obviously,
there has to be certain parameters and guidelines, but I think that
is a phenomenal way for us to set them up for success and a win.
And then I would assume, if that bill passes, there needs to be
coaches involved or business individuals on that side that are going
to walk kind of hand-in-hand or at least, hey, you are checking
every 3 months or quarter, whatever it might be, 6 months, and
then making sure that you are there to support as they continue
to grow, and maybe the ability to release more funds as times be-
come available.
Mr. LALOTA. Awesome. Thanks for your testimony. I appreciate
your feedback. Thanks for your service.
I yield.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, shipmate.
I now recognize Mr. McGarvey from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank all of you all for being here today. Thank you very much
for your service.
I am from Kentucky, as the Chairman just said. It is the home
of both Fort Campbell and Fort Knox, where tens of thousands of
servicemembers are stationed, where many continue to live and
start businesses upon leaving the service.
In 2021, more than 20,000 veterans, servicemembers, and mili-
tary spouses participated in the Boots to Business Program. In
38
2022, participation declined to roughly 18,000. In 2023, participa-
tion is expected to decline another 5 percent. Take that statistic.
Now the next statistic. In 2018, the New York Federal Reserve
reported that veteran-owned businesses submitted more applica-
tions for loans, lines of credit, and cash advances than their non-
veteran counterparts. Yet 60 percent of veteran-owned businesses
reported obtaining less financing than requested and experienced
lower approval rates across the top three sources of credit: large
banks, small banks, and online lenders.
So looking at this right now, obviously, we want to help as many
veterans get back and, as you said, Mr. Hyacinthe, go on the next
mission. So kind of just following up on a lot of the questions you
have been asked today, starting with Mr. Meuser and others.
Given the decline in participation right now, the difficulty in ac-
cess to capital that we are seeing for veterans—I just will start
with you, Mr. Hyacinthe. What would you do if you were in our
seats to help both of these things and get more veterans into be-
coming entrepreneurs?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Thank you for that question. First,
I would ask you guys to keep doing what you are doing. This is
what it requires. Coming together. For veterans to truly get the
support that they need, we as a society, as a nation, as a body, as
a Committee, need to come together. So that is first and foremost.
Secondly, I believe in the ability to give veterans access to cap-
ital. And if these certain entities are not providing access to capital
or you see veterans declining, let’s find other initiatives that are
seeing a positive impact.
What we are doing in Michigan could be replicated in certain
places with other universities where the veterans are taught how
to start a business, ideate that, launch it, and then give them some
money to go and seed that. So we have opportunities to show that
educating and giving the veteran funding can work.
Mr. MCGARVEY. I appreciate that.
I will just go down the line, ask everybody the same question.
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. I don’t know if there is anything else
you can do other than what you are doing now, because this is ex-
actly what needs to be done. But I will say that when we go to
apply for loans and we go to apply for business credit, lines of cred-
it and stuff like that, although you guys understand that being a
veteran carries a lot of weight and comes with a lot of accolades
and leadership qualities and things like that, it is dropped when
you are applying for the loan. You know, now it is Breakable
Hearts is applying for the loan, not veteran-owned Breakable
Hearts is applying for the loan.
And so if there is any way to take the weight of, you know, the
qualifications and stuff for being a veteran—and that holds its
weight when you go to actually apply for these loans and things
like that—that would be my suggestion. Some way to do that.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you.
Sergeant QUEZADA. I will just mirror what they both said. I be-
lieve each one of you sitting here shows that you guys and gals ob-
viously care about veterans and small businesses and the healthy
synergy between our government and the private sector.
39
And so you continue to sit on this Committee and work together
to collaborate and come up with answers and solutions, ideally. So
thank you for doing that.
And I will pass it over to Mr. Burks.
Commander BURKS. Sir, thank you for the question. I think it
is a relevant question. And I would maybe carry the ideas that my
fellow veterans have shared.
So one—some notes I wrote down—I would advise strongly dis-
courage us using the Post-9/11 GI Bill as a block grant to veterans
not related to education. But it could be used for lenders to under-
stand as a loan guarantee that veterans with service who have—
would have access to this could utilize it in that way. You know,
it is the whole give a man a fish or teach a man to fish mentality.
And that is what the GI Bill is for.
The second part of that—and I really appreciate Staff Sergeant
Weaver’s idea—and that is your military service could be utilized
as experience in industry for lending standards, especially for
small- and medium-sized businesses that are related around trades
for what you are doing or what you are trying to procure.
If you are lookin—and I am concerned about businesses because
of the nature of my position. Businesses that are—the owners want
to retire, they have this trade experience, but they don’t have
somebody that they can pass it on to in the family or that they
could sell it to, and a young veteran who has this experience, if
that could be counted for them, would be enormous.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much.
I yield back.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey.
I now recognize Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez from Washington for 5
minutes, if she is ready.
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. ELLZEY. All right.
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
In the course of preparing for this hearing, my team spoke to
Jake Dailey of Toledo, Washington. Jake served as a combat medic
in Iraq, and carries that trauma that many veterans do.
As he describes it, when he came home, he found a unique ther-
apy in the outdoors as he learned how to use goats to rake the for-
est. And eventually, the veteran-owned startup Rake Force was
born.
Rake Force is a special purpose corporation that uses goats to eat
through excess biomass on the forest floor and prevent wildfire,
and return the forest to peak health. As the business grows, Jake
aims to hire and empower more veterans in Lewis County. As Jake
puts it, it is a win-win to manage forests in the West while also
giving meaningful, healing work to veterans.
Jake’s story reminds me of how veteran-owned small businesses
can have a multiplier effect in their community. One veteran suc-
cess empowers and heals an entire veteran community.
Mr. Hyacinthe, in your testimony, you mentioned how your first
small business was committed to healing veterans through art.
How can this Committee support veteran small business owners
that have a similar focus on bettering society and responding to the
unique issues that veterans face?
40
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. It is a great question. I think it is
a question to our current times.
When we look at the current iteration of industry, when we look
at, you know, the success of technology, automation, in addition to
the newly introduced ChatGPT, we need to allow veterans to be
creators. Feed them the opportunities where they are in positions
where they can be expressive, use their imagination.
Regarding what we did was we saw an impact with Has Heart
and how that impacted veterans through creativity and how that
connected and collaborated with veterans. We said, could we do the
same thing and apply it to children? So that is where we were able
to create the Wimage app, which converts words to images, and
now we have a show on PBS.
I think what makes veterans unique—similar to your colleague
or your constituent—is that he put himself in the position where
he was able to heal—A, healing, right? Veterans, can we heal
through the ventures that we are creating, and can we provide an
opportunity for other veterans to heal through this venture that we
started? And with that, can we expand it and empower other vet-
erans?
I am a strong believer in creativity and the arts, because I be-
lieve that giving veterans an opportunity to share their thoughts
and ideas, that is where innovation flourishes and that is where
community can find a place to come together.
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
Mr. Burks, thank you for your service and for taking the time to
speak with us today. I want to take a moment to emphasize some-
thing you said earlier in your opening remarks: That through your
military career, you developed some of the skills that make you a
great candidate for your current position.
I think it is incredibly important for us to recognize that our vet-
erans coming out of service have acquired critical career skills,
often beyond what could have been acquired in a 4-year college.
How can we better support veterans like yourself in identifying
those skills and connecting them with careers where they would be
valued?
Commander BURKS. Yeah. And I appreciate the question, Con-
gresswoman.
I am not sure that I am equipped to give you a ideal answer be-
yond what we have already spoken about. At my postgraduate edu-
cation, the veterans assistance program there was not connected to
Boots to Business. It was not connected to a lot of the newer re-
sources that are available.
But what I hope that this Committee hears from me consistently,
and that is relationships are what makes entrepreneurship suc-
cessful, and veterans need that assistance in connecting those rela-
tionships when we get back to our communities.
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
Mr. Quezada, thank you for your service and for taking the time
to speak with us today. I appreciate you raising the issues of bar-
riers and red tape in seeking assistance with government proc-
esses.
My husband and I own a small auto repair and a machine shop,
and we too have experienced these challenges of applying for some
41
of these programs where the dollars don’t go where they would
make the most sense, do the most value, but to the people who
have the patience to navigate an opaque system.
So I would love to hear more about your experiences and any ad-
vice you have for how we can specifically improve the experiences
of veterans applying for these programs.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Well, I will mirror what Mr. Burks said—
or, Burks, sorry. But everything for me, personally, as I have
grown my business, relies on relationships.
So I think, outside of the majority of veterans who are leaving
the military, they already have the proper skill set to adapt, to
overcome, to weather the storm, meet, you know, barriers head-on,
and figure, you know, a way to problem-solve or solution-base.
But I am a huge proponent of people and working with people
and relationships. So that is how I have gotten to the success we
have gotten to as a business.
Ms. GLUSENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez.
I now recognize Mr. Molinaro from New York for 5 minutes.
Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Quezada, I am actually going to get back to you, and I would
like to follow up on that question. But, very specifically, I just want
to offer some comments before I do. But I will give you some time
to think about it.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah.
Mr. MOLINARO. The challenges of accessing SBA assistance, in
particular for veterans’ business development, think about very
specifically some of the steps that we might take to streamline ac-
cess. And I recognize the value of building those relationships.
I just—I want to join my colleagues, certainly, in thanking all of
you for not only your testimony but your service. And I, certainly,
this weekend and every weekend, join my colleagues and every
American in expressing our thanks to the men and women who
have, continue, and will serve this country.
Veteran-owned businesses, as we recognize, are extremely impor-
tant in our communities. According to JPMorgan, about 25 percent
of transitioning servicemembers want to start a business, and yet
very few have the network or resources necessary to make that
happen.
I served the last 12 years as a county executive, where we iden-
tify the very specific barriers and challenges to veterans reentering
the workforce and then building their own business opportunities.
In particular, in order to access stable employment, we provided a
great amount of support in housing, education, counseling, mental
health services, and transportation. All those wraparound services,
in particular, very, very critical to enhancing access.
And so, Mr. Quezada, I will get back to very specifically the ques-
tion. Give us your thoughts on streamlining more opportunities and
access to SBA assistance and how we might do that. And I appre-
ciate the relationship-building, but what specifically might we do?
Sergeant QUEZADA. First off, I would like to know, I guess, out
of all the lending capabilities out there within the United States,
42
what does the SBA account for, percentage-wise, compared to every
other type of lending out there, for one.
And then, two, the assumption would be that every State is in
lockstep with how to work and determine or circumnavigate—actu-
ally, sorry—provide a cohesive answer or solution to veterans or to
small-business owners in order to access, you know, capital through
the SBA.
I don’t know if that is necessarily the case. I have talked to sev-
eral different bankers who have some wherewithal with the SBA,
whether it is a 7(a) or a 504 or some of the other capabilities out
there, but nobody seems to fully understand or have all the an-
swers. And I spent a couple different times just getting shuffled
around to different banking institutions through the State.
So there probably needs to be some type of baseline that every-
body understands clearly.
Mr. MOLINARO. State to State. So uniformity in State delivery,
at least within States’ delivery of access. Single point of contact, I
assume. And the ability to share information so that you are not
ping-ponging around from lender to lender and then through the
bureaucracy. That——
Sergeant QUEZADA. Correct.
Mr. MOLINARO.—is fair?
So there are U.S. companies that are making significant invest-
ment in building up veteran employment and entrepreneurship op-
portunities. Walmart, as we likely know, invests heavily in vet-
erans, hiring over half a million veterans as employees and spend-
ing now more than $10 billion with veteran-owned suppliers.
In my part of New York, Syracuse, New York, Syracuse Univer-
sity has spearheaded the creation of Coalition for Veteran-Owned
Businesses, which helps support veteran-, servicemember-, and
military-spouse-owned businesses by connecting them to education,
training, and other service supports. With the help of companies
like Walmart, Johnson & Johnson, and Lockheed Martin, the coali-
tion has provided over 13,000 veteran-owned small businesses with
opportunities.
In the last few seconds I have, it is important that companies
continue to make these sort of strategic investments and partner
to advance job opportunities with veteran-owned suppliers.
For any one of you, what are some of the ways that you think
industry, larger employers and businesses, could collaborate in a
similar way to help veteran-owned businesses like your own?
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. I can speak to that, and I think I ad-
dressed one specific issue in my opening statement.
I think AAFES, the Navy Exchange, the Commissary, the VA
Canteens, I think they have an important role to play in fostering
veterans in their venture and entrepreneurship pursuits.
We look at Liberty Weaver. Why can’t the Commissary create a
pilot program where individuals of her talents that have awesome
baking skills get an opportunity to create a line of baking goods in-
side the Commissary and pilot that? Why——
Mr. MOLINARO. So leveraging—I apologize. Just to allow—in 3
seconds or less—leveraging the power of the federal government.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Absolutely.
Mr. MOLINARO. Anyone else on the private side?
43
I am out. Mr. Chairman, I yield back to you.
Mr. ELLZEY. If you want a couple more minutes to expound on
that question, you may.
Mr. MOLINARO. I just wouldn’t mind if someone else—and I ap-
preciate what you had to say.
If one other witness——
Mr. ELLZEY. Go ahead. You have 2 more minutes.
Mr. MOLINARO. Well, I didn’t need them.
Okay, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Molinaro.
Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, sir.
Mr. ELLZEY. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
First of all, Petty Officer Hyacinthe, I feel like Wimee is staring
at me. And I don’t know if he is powered by AI or not, but he is
making me a little bit nervous. He has been staring at me for, like,
a half-hour. But I am glad you brought him with you.
None of you all were drafted. You all have a servant’s heart, and
you said, ‘‘Here am I. Send me.’’ And I hope that you have seen
from this panel today and the folks who have been up here, this
Committee actually cares about your success.
I know that you were all trained for at least 1 year in the chosen
profession that you had. I know supply school lasted a year, and
an advanced degree. You went through training your entire career
for spec ops. You did at least a year of training for dental training.
And Seabees are always training, because they are always creating
things.
The least we could do in our country is give you a hand-off from
the DOD to the VA without any break in service.
So, if we are willing to train you for at least a year, minimum,
regardless of your MOS or whatever training that you get for your
profession in the military—you get none of that on the way out, ab-
solutely zero. And what the DOD does, whether you have been in
combat or not, is, they chew you up, spit you out, and say, ‘‘Good
luck. Godspeed. Here is a 1-day TAP class. And there is the VA in
the corner. Good luck. Hope you get you some disability.’’
Ultimately, I think it is the responsibility of a bipartisan attempt
over the next few years of our Congress to ensure that the DOD—
who doesn’t, at this point, have to do anything for you once you are
gone—that the DOD not release you from Active Duty until you
have gotten a full work-up of your disability rating; a full psycho-
logical and mental evaluation, if you have seen combat, to get you
the care that you need; and then any training and transfer of the
skills that you currently have into the civilian world, be it a welder
or anything else. Right now, they don’t currently make sure that
you have that on the way out. But, also, if you intend to be an en-
trepreneur, to link you up with an SBA caseworker that can help
you on your way.
I am sure all four of you, as I have listened to your stories, prob-
ably didn’t figure you would end up where you are today, but you
have to at least have the opportunity to do so. Because that lost
year after you get out—and I don’t care if you are a lieutenant
commander or if you are an E5. I had 20 years in the Navy as a
Navy commander, and when I got out, I had no sense of where I
belonged. I had lost all my peers, I had lost all my family, except
44
for, you know, my wife and children. Obviously I had those. But
that sense of camaraderie that you have is completely gone, and
you are cut off from it. That is not right.
So we need to have a link-up between the DOD and the VA so
that you don’t lose that year. Because if you lose that year—espe-
cially if you are a young sailor or airman or soldier with a young
family, you have to get a job. If you don’t have that disability rat-
ing, you are not going to get a hiring preference. If you don’t have
that disability rating, you are not getting any money coming in. So
we need to do a better job of that.
So, at some point—I just want you to know I was a small-busi-
ness owner, and the pit in my stomach evinced itself when I saw
all the things that you have had to go through. And I wish you
every success.
And someday I want to come to Midway Games and challenge
you in axe-throwing.
Commander BURKS. Yes, sir.
Mr. ELLZEY. I will kick your tail.
Sergeant First Class Quezada, I want to come to Founding Fa-
thers and get a haircut. I need one today.
I am going to buy some chocolate for my bride from Breakable
Hearts. In fact, we were in Amelia Island just 2 weeks ago. I wish
I had known about your business then. I would have come by, be-
cause I am sure at some point there in that time I was in the dog-
house and needed to get out of it. So you are going to be my saving
grace.
And, of course, I want to come see Wimee the robot and your AI
training at some point and your cartoon at some point. I think it
is fabulous. Who would have thought that a Seabee would be doing
‘‘Wimee’s Words’’ and puppetry? But I am really happy that you
guys are all doing that.
In the few minutes we have left, Commander Burks, if you were
the guy that was now about to get out and you had one thing to
go back and do over again to get you to here, what would it be?
One thing you didn’t do that you needed from the DOD or the VA
or anything at all?
Commander BURKS. Yeah. I appreciate the thought on a better
pipeline between DOD and VA. Because my transition was rocky
for exactly the reasons you have talked about—mental health sup-
port, your loss of sense of identity when you leave Active Duty into
Reserves or civilian life or career. I had no clue. And I think that
I would have told myself getting into the Navy, it is going to be
rough getting out of the Navy.
Mr. ELLZEY. Ms. Weaver?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. It is rough. It is very rough.
Mr. ELLZEY. You can think about it.
Mr. Quezada?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. Okay. Come back to me.
Sergeant QUEZADA. Yeah, the one thing I continually rec-
ommend to young men and women who are going into the military
is, you know, be secure in your identity before you go in. Don’t
allow the military to dictate who you become. At some point, you
are going to leave, whether it is 2 years or 20 years. So, as you
leave, make sure you know who you are as an individual and
45
where you stand. And that helped me transition out when I did
pretty rapidly, to where I didn’t tie my identity to what I did in
the military.
So that was one thing.
And then, two, probably set up some type of, you know, short-
term and long-term goals, you know, 1-year to 5-years life map on
where they came from, where they are currently, where they think
they want to go, and don’t lose sight of that mission. So——
Mr. ELLZEY. Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Weaver?
Staff Sergeant WEAVER. That did inspire me. Thank you.
I would set up some type of financial planning. I know—I heard
earlier that the Navy is offering that now. That wasn’t available for
me when I was in the Air Force. But that would definitely set you
up for success when you are transitioning, because there are so
many unknowns. You don’t know if you are going to get disability.
You don’t know what job you are going to get or how money is
going to start coming in.
So that would be my advice.
Mr. ELLZEY. Close us out, Mr. Hyacinthe.
Petty Officer HYACINTHE. Hooyah.
Completely agree with my fellow veterans. I believe that transi-
tion is a very, very challenging transition, and that year—that year
can feel like 10 years.
But one thing I would give advice to, for veterans who are get-
ting out, is to find an organization to continue serving with. Habi-
tat for Humanity, Team Rubicon, Mission Continues—those are op-
portunities where veterans, while they are still trying to find their
mission, can perhaps continue to serve, to find that purpose.
And, at the same time, it just goes back to who we are: We are
servants. That is what we have been trained on. And if we can find
an opportunity to keep serving and, hopefully, throughout that mis-
sion, find our purpose.
That is my, you know, answer to your question.
Mr. ELLZEY. Well, that is all really good advice from all four of
you.
So I think we need a pilot program for peer counseling. Because,
as we get out, the peer counseling is what is missing, the family
feeling of people who have been there before. All four of you have
been there before. I would like to see more veterans who have gone
into small business being able to mentor and be a peer counselor
for those young men and women getting out and choosing to go
down your path.
Well, I have gone over my time, but nobody was there to tell me
I couldn’t. So I think we are pretty much done.
I would like to thank our witnesses for their testimony and ap-
pearing before us today. We are all very proud of you and want to
see you succeed.
So, without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to submit
additional materials and written questions for the witnesses to the
Chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses. And I ask the wit-
nesses to please respond promptly.
If there is no further business, without objection, the Committee
is adjourned.
46
[Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
47
APPENDIX
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