Pandemic Darlings The pandemic economy, in original documents
Home Source documents Review of SBA Entrepreneurial Development Programs and Initiatives (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, February 1, 2022)

Review of SBA Entrepreneurial Development Programs and Initiatives (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, February 1, 2022)

Summary

S. HRG. 117–241, the printed record of a hearing titled Review of SBA Entrepreneurial Development Programs and Initiatives before the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, held February 1, 2022 in the 117th Congress. The contents list opening statements by Chairman Benjamin L. Cardin and Ranking Member Rand Paul. Panel 1 is Mark Madrid, Associate Administrator of the SBA's Office of Entrepreneurial Development. Panel 2 is C.E. Rowe of America's SBDC, Michael Hendrix of the Manhattan Institute, Corinne Hodges of the Association of Women's Business Centers, Chris Edwards of the Cato Institute, Bridget Weston of SCORE and Hannah Cox of the Foundation for Economic Education. The appendix lists testimony, prepared statements and responses to questions submitted by Senators.

Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used

Cite this document

“Review of SBA Entrepreneurial Development Programs and Initiatives (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, February 1, 2022).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/review-of-sba-entrepreneurial-development-programs-and-initiatives-sen-ec5c9bac78/, SHA-256 d05d3e918629fdc749430cace7bde58429d3387bb586d894a60d92ec3d2ff92e.

Full text

                                                                                                                                                      S. HRG. 117–241

                                                                              REVIEW OF SBA ENTREPRENEURIAL
                                                                           DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS AND INITIATIVES



                                                                                                          HEARING
                                                                                                                 BEFORE THE


                                                                              COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                 AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
                                                                                                                    OF THE


                                                                                           UNITED STATES SENATE
                                                                                   ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                                               SECOND SESSION


                                                                                                           FEBRUARY 1, 2022


                                                                             Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship




                                                                                                                    (
                                                                                       Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov




                                                                                                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                                                          47–360 PDF                           WASHINGTON : 2022




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488    PO 00000   Frm 00001    Fmt 5011   Sfmt 5011   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                              COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP

                                                                                           ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS



                                                                                      BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland, Chairman
                                                                                         RAND PAUL, Kentucky, Ranking Member
                                                                    MARIA CANTWELL, Washington             MARCO RUBIO, Florida
                                                                    JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire          JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
                                                                    EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts        TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
                                                                    CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey             JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                                                    CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware         JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
                                                                    MAZIE HIRONO, Hawaii                   TODD YOUNG, Indiana
                                                                    TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois              JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                                                    JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                    JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
                                                                    JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado            ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
                                                                                          SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
                                                                                      WILLIAM HENDERSON, Republican Staff Director




                                                                                                                     (II)




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00002   Fmt 5904   Sfmt 5904   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                             C O N T E N T S

                                                                                                                    OPENING STATEMENTS
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Page
                                                                    Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., Chairman, a U.S. Senator from Maryland ..............                                                1
                                                                    Paul, Hon. Rand, Ranking Member, a U.S. Senator from Kentucky ..................                                              12

                                                                                                                            WITNESSES

                                                                                                                              Panel 1
                                                                    Madrid, Mr. Mark, Associate Administrator, Office of Entrepreneurial Devel-
                                                                     opment, U.S. Small Business Administration, Washington DC .......................                                             4

                                                                                                                              Panel 2
                                                                    Rowe, Mr. C.E. ‘‘Tee’’, President and CEO, America’s SBDC, Burke, VA ..........                                               26
                                                                    Hendrix, Mr. Michael, Senior Fellow, Manhattan Institute, New York, NY ......                                                 40
                                                                    Hodges, Ms. Corinne, CEO, Association of Women’s Business Centers, Wash-
                                                                      ington DC ..............................................................................................................    48
                                                                    Edwards, Mr. Chris, Director of Tax Policy Studies, Cato Institute, Wash-
                                                                      ington, DC .............................................................................................................    59
                                                                    Weston, Ms. Bridget, CEO, SCORE, Herndon, VA ...............................................                                  71
                                                                    Cox, Ms. Hannah, Brand Ambassador, Foundation for Economic Education,
                                                                      Co-Founder and Host, BASEDPolitics, Atlanta, GA .........................................                                   85

                                                                                      ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
                                                                    Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L.
                                                                        Opening statement ...........................................................................................              1
                                                                    Cox, Ms. Hannah
                                                                        Testimony ..........................................................................................................      85
                                                                        Prepared statement ..........................................................................................             87
                                                                    Edwards, Mr. Chris
                                                                        Testimony ..........................................................................................................      59
                                                                        Prepared statement ..........................................................................................             61
                                                                    Hendrix, Mr. Michael
                                                                        Testimony ..........................................................................................................      40
                                                                        Prepared statement ..........................................................................................             42
                                                                    Hodges, Ms. Corinne
                                                                        Testimony ..........................................................................................................      48
                                                                        Prepared statement ..........................................................................................             50
                                                                        Responses to questions submitted by Senators Hirono, Hickenlooper, and
                                                                          Marshall .........................................................................................................     124
                                                                    Madrid, Mr. Mark
                                                                        Testimony ..........................................................................................................       4
                                                                        Prepared statement ..........................................................................................              6
                                                                        Responses to questions submitted by Chairman Cardin and Senators
                                                                          Hirono, Hickenlooper, Young, and Marshall ..............................................                               100
                                                                    Paul, Hon. Rand
                                                                        Opening statement ...........................................................................................             12
                                                                    Rowe, Mr. C.E. ‘‘Tee’’
                                                                        Testimony ..........................................................................................................      26
                                                                        Prepared statement ..........................................................................................             29
                                                                        Responses to questions submitted by Senators Hirono, Hickenlooper, and
                                                                          Marshall .........................................................................................................     114

                                                                                                                                  (III)




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488     PO 00000       Frm 00003       Fmt 5904      Sfmt 5904      C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT                  47360
                                                                                                                                  IV
                                                                                                                                                                                              Page
                                                                    Weston, Ms. Bridget
                                                                       Testimony ..........................................................................................................    71
                                                                       Prepared statement ..........................................................................................           73
                                                                       Responses to questions submitted by Senator Marshall ...............................                                   128




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488     PO 00000      Frm 00004       Fmt 5904     Sfmt 5904      C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT                 47360
                                                                        REVIEW OF SBA ENTREPRENEURIAL
                                                                     DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS AND INITIATIVES

                                                                                                  TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2022

                                                                                               UNITED STATES SENATE,
                                                                                           COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                                      AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
                                                                                                                  Washington, DC.
                                                                      The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:31 p.m., in Room
                                                                    SR–301, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Ben Cardin, Chair-
                                                                    man of the Committee, presiding.
                                                                      Present: Senators Cardin, Cantwell, Shaheen, Coons, Hirono,
                                                                    Rosen, Hickenlooper, Paul, Scott, Ernst, Inhofe, Young, Hawley,
                                                                    and Marshall.
                                                                            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN,
                                                                              CHAIRMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. The Small Business and Entrepreneurship
                                                                    Committee will come to order.
                                                                       Senator Paul will be here shortly. He said it was okay for us to
                                                                    start the hearing.
                                                                       We have two panels today, and there is currently a vote on the
                                                                    floor of the United States Senate, and there will be a second vote.
                                                                    So we will have some interruptions. We are going to try to keep
                                                                    the hearing moving throughout the process so that members will
                                                                    be floating in and out. So I hope everyone understands that.
                                                                       This is a hearing to review the SBA’s entrepreneurial develop-
                                                                    ment programs and initiatives, and it is a great pleasure to wel-
                                                                    come the Associate Administrator, Office of Entrepreneurial Devel-
                                                                    opment in the Small Business Administration, Mark Madrid.
                                                                       It is nice to have you with us today.
                                                                       The programs that come under Mr. Madrid’s administration are
                                                                    critical to the support of small businesses. We are talking about the
                                                                    Small Business Development Centers Program, which is one of the
                                                                    principal resources available to small business in our community.
                                                                    We are talking about the Women’s Business Centers that are again
                                                                    critically important, particularly for underserved and disadvan-
                                                                    taged women-owned small businesses. And then, the services that
                                                                    come under the Office of Entrepreneurship Education, which is an
                                                                    array of programs that all provide essential services to our small
                                                                    business, from the SCORE program, which is one of our mentoring
                                                                    programs that involve a lot of volunteers, to the brand new Com-
                                                                    munity Navigator Pilot Program that was approved under the
                                                                    American Rescue Plan, the online learning centers, the Regional
                                                                    Innovation Clusters, and the Emerging Leaders Initiative. And the
                                                                                                                     (1)




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00005   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         2

                                                                    list goes on and on and on. These are programs that help entre-
                                                                    preneurs start and grow successful businesses, and mentoring and
                                                                    training and access to resources otherwise difficult to obtain, and
                                                                    COVID–19 has really underscored the importance of all of these
                                                                    programs.
                                                                       We know small businesses provide the greater innovation into
                                                                    our economy and the job growth that we need to grow our economy,
                                                                    but we also know that they operate on razor-thin margins. So they
                                                                    do not have the resources to hire high-priced business consultants
                                                                    to do their work as far as finding out what the right avenue is to
                                                                    get the help that they need. The resource partners come in here
                                                                    and fill the void, and that is why these programs were established.
                                                                    They are the lifeline.
                                                                       And I think small—thank the Small Business Administration for
                                                                    new resource partners in the State of Maryland, the Veterans Busi-
                                                                    ness Outreach Center that opened during this past year and two
                                                                    new Women’s Business Centers located in my State.
                                                                       Let me just give you one example why these resource partners
                                                                    are critically important, and I will talk about the Small Business
                                                                    Development Centers. Last November, with the help of the Mary-
                                                                    land Southern Region Small Business Development Center, oper-
                                                                    ated by the College of Southern Maryland, the Salinas family
                                                                    opened a Hispanic grocery store in Waldorf, one of the fastest grow-
                                                                    ing communities in our State. The SBDC helped them develop their
                                                                    brand, secured financing, and established their operations. The
                                                                    family wanted to create a store that genuinely connected with cus-
                                                                    tomers and catered to their needs, and they have done so success-
                                                                    fully. For entrepreneurs like the Salinas family, access to these
                                                                    programs can be the difference between success and failure. The
                                                                    SBDC was critical to the startup of that company.
                                                                       Data shows that small businesses created by entrepreneurs who
                                                                    receive at least three hours of SBA counseling have a higher sur-
                                                                    vival rate than small businesses created by entrepreneurs who re-
                                                                    ceive less counseling or not at all. Because of this strong record of
                                                                    success and impact, Senators Shaheen, Collins, Rubio, and I in-
                                                                    cluded a provision in the CARES Act to provide the SBA entrepre-
                                                                    neurial development programs with $265 million to increase their
                                                                    capacity to serve more small businesses, and I hope we will have
                                                                    a chance during this hearing to learn how that $265 million has
                                                                    been allocated and what progress we have as a result of those addi-
                                                                    tional funds. The funds help the programs deepen their expertise
                                                                    to help small businesses understand, prepare for, and mitigate the
                                                                    effects of the pandemic on supply chains, distribution, and overall
                                                                    business operations.
                                                                       President Joe Biden’s American Rescue Plan went even further
                                                                    than the CARES Act by establishing a Community Navigator Pilot
                                                                    Program that has created a holistic network to eliminate barriers
                                                                    entrepreneurs face in assessing the support they need. This is a
                                                                    new program, and again, we welcome your—this hearing where we
                                                                    have a chance to delve into how that program has worked. The pro-
                                                                    gram was launched on December 1st of last year, and I am looking
                                                                    forward to receiving the updates on the progress.
                                                                       Thanks to the additional capacity, expertise, and connectivity the
                                                                    SBA has developed during the pandemic, it was able to support the




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00006   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         3

                                                                    record-breaking surge of entrepreneurships that have occurred dur-
                                                                    ing the pandemic. This is an amazing success story. We have seen
                                                                    record numbers of new small businesses during this pandemic,
                                                                    again showing the creativity and innovation of small business own-
                                                                    ers.
                                                                       The U.S. Census Bureau reports that 4.4 million new businesses
                                                                    created in 2020 is the highest total on record and represents a 24
                                                                    percent increase from 2019 as well as a 51 percent increase above
                                                                    the annual average between 2010 and 2019.
                                                                       Entrepreneurs in Black and Hispanic communities are driving
                                                                    the surge. They are outpacing the other businesses. So we are
                                                                    reaching the traditionally underserved. The data is showing a 38
                                                                    percent increase in the number of new Black business owners be-
                                                                    tween February 2020 and August 2021.
                                                                       As we shift our focus to the years ahead and Building Back Bet-
                                                                    ter, the SBA must be well equipped to support these entrepreneurs
                                                                    and emerging markets. This is especially important in Maryland,
                                                                    which has the highest concentration of minority-owned businesses
                                                                    in the country as well as one of the strongest innovation sectors in
                                                                    the country due to the presence of SBA resource partners as well
                                                                    as many renowned public and private research institutions.
                                                                       I am looking forward to learning more from all our witnesses
                                                                    about how we can build stronger partnerships between the SBA
                                                                    and underserved areas, especially with our Nation’s Historically
                                                                    Black Colleges and Universities and minority serving institutions.
                                                                    HBCUs are a vital part of Maryland’s entrepreneurial ecosystem,
                                                                    with Bowie State University hosting an innovation center and Mor-
                                                                    gan State University hosting one of the Women’s Business Centers
                                                                    that opened during the pandemic. Our State has successfully lever-
                                                                    aged these institutions’ relationships with minority communities to
                                                                    get these critical services to entrepreneurs who would benefit from
                                                                    them the most.
                                                                       As the American economy continues to recover, we must ensure
                                                                    that all communities are able to partake in the recovery, and it is
                                                                    clear that entrepreneurship will play a very large role in that ef-
                                                                    fort. I hope to leave this hearing with a much better understanding
                                                                    of the best policies that we could put forward to maximize the op-
                                                                    portunity and produce a truly inclusive recovery by supporting the
                                                                    SBA entrepreneurial development programs.
                                                                       With that, we will start with our first panel, and let me now for-
                                                                    mally introduce the Associate Administrator of the Small Business
                                                                    Administration, Mark Madrid. Mark serves as the Associate Ad-
                                                                    ministrator for the Office of Entrepreneurial Development at the
                                                                    U.S. Small Business Administration. In this role, Mr. Madrid leads
                                                                    the OED, which is the SBA’s technical assistance arm, with a na-
                                                                    tional resource network including the Small Business Development
                                                                    Centers, Women’s Business Centers, SCORE, and the Office of En-
                                                                    trepreneurship Education.
                                                                       Mr. Madrid previously served as CEO of Latino Business Action
                                                                    Network at Stanford University and was named the 2019 Silicon
                                                                    Valley Nonprofit CEO of the Year by the Silicon Valley Business
                                                                    Journal. He is an Honorary Colonel of the United States Army and
                                                                    a Jefferson Award Recipient.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00007   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         4

                                                                      Mr. Madrid, it is a pleasure to have you here, and you may pro-
                                                                    ceed. Your full testimony will be made part of our record.
                                                                    STATEMENT OF MARK MADRID, ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR,
                                                                     OFFICE OF ENTREPRENEURIAL DEVELOPMENT, U.S. SMALL
                                                                     BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, WASHINGTON, DC
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Great afternoon, Chairman Cardin, Ranking Mem-
                                                                    ber Paul, and distinguished members of the Committee. Thank you
                                                                    for the invitation to discuss the SBA’s Office of Entrepreneurial De-
                                                                    velopment (OED). I am energized to be here.
                                                                       Our mission is to help small businesses start, grow, and expand
                                                                    by providing quality training, counseling, and access to resources.
                                                                    We achieve this through the Resource Partner Network, grants, the
                                                                    Community Navigator Pilot Program, and entrepreneurship edu-
                                                                    cation. We are honored to spearhead this portfolio under the excep-
                                                                    tional and strong leadership of Administrator Isabella Casillas
                                                                    Guzman.
                                                                       I am a product of entrepreneurship. Like many of our U.S. small
                                                                    business owners, my dad was unrelenting in changing the course
                                                                    of our family’s destination as he built his welding business from
                                                                    the ground up in the Texas Panhandle. We are proud of my dad
                                                                    for his evolution from hoeing cotton in the cotton fields to being his
                                                                    own boss. Mi Papa (my dad) died from COVID–19. Thus, I consider
                                                                    supporting small businesses like my father’s during this time the
                                                                    honor of a lifetime, and I have a proven track record of doing so
                                                                    on the ground.
                                                                       The last two years have tested America’s entrepreneurs. Yet, I
                                                                    am proud to report that entrepreneurship, as you mentioned, Sen-
                                                                    ator Cardin, is booming in 2021; 5.4 million Americans took that
                                                                    courageous American step of starting a business in 2021. This
                                                                    record pace of new business creation is a credit to the thriving en-
                                                                    trepreneurial spirit in this country, resilient in the face of a global
                                                                    pandemic. It is also thanks to the strong emergency support pro-
                                                                    vided by Congress.
                                                                       OED is honoring that investment through action. The millions of
                                                                    new businesses are as diverse as they are numerous and so is the
                                                                    range of their counseling needs. Some small businesses benefit
                                                                    most from women-specific counseling. Others need an experienced
                                                                    business mentor. Yet, others need technical assistance from a uni-
                                                                    versity setting or an organization with strong community ties.
                                                                       OED’s newest program, the Community Navigator Pilot Pro-
                                                                    gram, is designed to close resource gaps for small businesses in
                                                                    urban and rural America, including those owned by veterans,
                                                                    women, and socially and economically disadvantaged individuals.
                                                                    Funded by the American Rescue Plan, it provides $100 million in
                                                                    grants to 51 rigorously selected grantees that work with hundreds
                                                                    of community organizations to connect U.S. small businesses to
                                                                    SBA and Federal, State, and local resources.
                                                                       SBA’s resource partners are also ultimately critical. Small Busi-
                                                                    ness Development Centers have tremendous reach via 62 lead cen-
                                                                    ters and over 900 service centers. SBDCs utilized $192 million in
                                                                    CARES Act funding to train over 818,000 clients and jumpstart
                                                                    over 26,000 new small businesses in 2021. One of those clients is
                                                                    Saskia Foley. She is the CEO of Radius Corporation in Kutztown,




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00008   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         5

                                                                    Pennsylvania. I had the opportunity to visit Saskia. Radius makes
                                                                    sustainable toothbrushes. And because of the Kutztown SBDC,
                                                                    Saskia was able to access an Economic Injury Disaster Loan and
                                                                    two draws of PPP, enabling Saskia to retain her 29 employees and
                                                                    to compete with major brands on Walmart shelves.
                                                                       Our network of Women’s Business Centers also creates gateways
                                                                    for women entrepreneurs. The $48 million in CARES Act funding
                                                                    enabled WBCs to assist more than 87,000 small businesses and
                                                                    help start over 3,300 new small businesses in 2021.
                                                                       SCORE is another resilient technical assistance pillar, with over
                                                                    10,000 volunteer mentors working through 250 chapters. In 2021,
                                                                    SCORE mentored over 570,000 clients.
                                                                       Through our Office of Entrepreneurship Education, we deliver an
                                                                    expansive e-learning and in-person training portfolio to small busi-
                                                                    nesses, including the underserved, underrepresented, and
                                                                    underaccessed. OEE’s portfolio includes the Emerging Leaders Ini-
                                                                    tiative. In December, we graduated 759 small business owners
                                                                    from this intensive executive-style program, and multimonth, I
                                                                    may add. Collectively, these leaders, small business owners, ac-
                                                                    count for over $1.2 billion in annual gross revenues. This program
                                                                    represents why we do what we do in OED.
                                                                       Finally, we are proud to support small businesses in Indian
                                                                    Country through the Office of Native American Affairs.
                                                                       America’s small businesses are tenacious, and we admire their
                                                                    resilience and their optimism. We are honored, as you are, to sup-
                                                                    port them as they recover, persist, and thrive. And we share your
                                                                    commitment to entrepreneurs and strengthening the support we
                                                                    provide them, collectively, particularly at this inflection point. I,
                                                                    and the strong team at OED and the SBA, look forward to further
                                                                    collaborating with you. Thank you.
                                                                       [The prepared statement of Mr. Madrid follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00009   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         6




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 001 here 47360.001


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00010   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         7




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 002 here 47360.002


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00011   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         8




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 003 here 47360.003


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00012   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                         9




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 004 here 47360.004


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00013   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     10




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 005 here 47360.005


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00014   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     11




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 006 here 47360.006


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00015   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     12

                                                                      Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Mr. Madrid, for your testimony
                                                                    but more importantly for your service.
                                                                      At this time, I will recognize the Ranking Member, Senator Paul,
                                                                    for any comments he may want to make.
                                                                                       OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RAND PAUL,
                                                                                          A U.S. SENATOR FROM KENTUCKY
                                                                       Senator PAUL. As we review the tumultuous first year of the
                                                                    Biden SBA, some trends have emerged. Time and time again, the
                                                                    SBA has conducted itself in a manner to prefer one set of Ameri-
                                                                    cans over others. Whether it is the unconstitutional way the SBA
                                                                    tried to distribute Restaurant Revitalization Fund money through
                                                                    the use of racial and gender quotas, until they were struck down
                                                                    by the Judiciary, or it is the awarding of Community Navigator
                                                                    Program money to many organizations that overwhelmingly donate
                                                                    to Democrats and the Democratic Party, the SBA seems more fo-
                                                                    cused on political virtue signaling rather than fulfilling its mission,
                                                                    helping American small business thrive. Such a focus is uncon-
                                                                    scionable when the Federal Government all but demanded the ces-
                                                                    sation of economic activity, putting the livelihoods of small busi-
                                                                    ness owners and their employees at risk.
                                                                       While the SBA’s mind was elsewhere, the Agency allowed much
                                                                    of the Office of Entrepreneurial Development’s core function to rot
                                                                    from within. Emblematic of that rot is a recent report from the In-
                                                                    spector General. The report looked at what SBA did with $25 mil-
                                                                    lion allocated to develop a website for small businesses to learn
                                                                    about Federal COVID programs and to fund training on those pro-
                                                                    grams for mentors. Turns out, less than 1 percent of small busi-
                                                                    nesses accessed the website during 2020, and just 62 of 14,000
                                                                    counselors received any training at all.
                                                                       Simply put, as is so often the case, government is doing more
                                                                    harm than good. According to SBA’s own polling of entrepreneurs’
                                                                    experiences, over two-thirds of entrepreneurs were unconvinced
                                                                    that the services they received from SBA resource partners bene-
                                                                    fited their bottom lines. The irony, that a government agency de-
                                                                    voted to help small businesses thrive in the marketplace cannot
                                                                    satisfy its customers, should not be lost on anyone.
                                                                       The SBA’s resource partners can tout their aggregated, rather
                                                                    than their client-specific, data and anecdotal success stories, but
                                                                    the clients have spoken. The resource partners provided largely
                                                                    useless advice. For every three, quote unquote, success stories they
                                                                    cite, data suggest there are roughly seven stories of failure. Frank-
                                                                    ly, I am not surprised.
                                                                       The idea that bureaucrats from a government that incessantly
                                                                    demands compliance with burdensome and costly regulations would
                                                                    then deign to educate the innovators and entrepreneurs of this
                                                                    country on how to run a business is, frankly, absurd. The best
                                                                    thing Federal, State, and local governments can do is get out of the
                                                                    way, lift the burdensome regulations creating barriers to entry for
                                                                    pre-venture and seed stage entrepreneurs, ease the cost of attempt-
                                                                    ing to untangle the extensive web of compliance rules existing en-
                                                                    trepreneurs face, and most of all, stop needlessly shutting down or
                                                                    restricting businesses through lockdowns and vaccine passports.
                                                                    Only then would government truly allow small business to thrive.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00016   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     13

                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Let me thank Senator Paul for his coopera-
                                                                    tion in putting together this hearing.
                                                                       We will now go to approximately five-minute rounds of ques-
                                                                    tioning. As I have indicated earlier, there is a vote on, on the floor
                                                                    of the Senate. So members will need to come in and out, and we
                                                                    will try to keep the hearing moving forward. With that in mind, let
                                                                    me start the questioning.
                                                                       Mr. Madrid, as I indicated, under the CARES Act, bipartisan
                                                                    support, the entrepreneurship programs were given several hun-
                                                                    dred millions of dollars of additional resources. Now, when I take
                                                                    a look at the results and see the significant increase in small busi-
                                                                    ness growth during the pandemic, that gives me a degree of con-
                                                                    fidence that we were helpful, particularly during a pandemic, when
                                                                    we know that the valuable help that the resource partners can give
                                                                    can help small businesses that otherwise would not have been able
                                                                    to get that type of assistance.
                                                                       So I still believe we have a major need in regards to emerging
                                                                    markets, and I know that is an area of focus that you have within
                                                                    your division. There has been legislation and efforts by the admin-
                                                                    istration, as well as members of Congress, to do an uplift program,
                                                                    to develop ways that we can work with the HBCUs and minority-
                                                                    serving institutions, in order to try to help emerging technologies
                                                                    and companies to be able to get the type of initial help that they
                                                                    need.
                                                                       My question to you is: What additional support do you need in
                                                                    order to provide opportunities for traditionally underserved com-
                                                                    munities so that they can take advantage of the opportunities that
                                                                    are emerging in America?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you, Chairman Cardin. As a point of ref-
                                                                    erence, just to look at the CARES Act funding results—and I am
                                                                    glad to see the resource partners here—between SCORE, the
                                                                    SBDCs, and the Women’s Business Centers: With the SBDCs, dur-
                                                                    ing the period that we are taking about, particularly through the
                                                                    pandemic, over 800,000 clients served; 26,000 new businesses start-
                                                                    ed. With the WBCs, 87,000 clients served; 3,300 new businesses.
                                                                    And with SCORE, over 570 clients mentored. And so that is ex-
                                                                    traordinary.
                                                                       And I do echo your sentiment about the booming entrepreneur-
                                                                    ship, with over 5.4 million new applications and starts in 2021,
                                                                    which is a record by a million.
                                                                       So these resources I—when you were asking your question, I
                                                                    wrote the name, Yaeli. Yaeli is a bread manufacturer in Miami,
                                                                    Florida, and she owns a company called Anny’s Bread Factory, spe-
                                                                    cializing in brioche rolls. And she—her goal a couple years ago was
                                                                    just to get—meet the $250,000, you know, annual gross revenue
                                                                    mark. And when she did, she turned to the local district office, and
                                                                    they told her about the Emerging Leaders Program which is under
                                                                    the purview of OED.
                                                                       She took that program because she qualified, and in the process
                                                                    she met the Florida International University (FIU) SBDC. And I
                                                                    am glad that she did because she secured counseling and one-on-
                                                                    one coaching and she was able, through the pandemic, because of
                                                                    this support system, to access an EIDL loan. And under this ad-
                                                                    ministration, that loan carried to the $500,000 mark. And because




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00017   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     14

                                                                    of that she was able to put bread on the shelves in the likes of Tar-
                                                                    get and grocery chains quicker than the big brands and now she
                                                                    is developing protein bread.
                                                                       So that is the spirit of entrepreneurship and why these resources
                                                                    are so critical. Think about 5.4 million new Yaelis across the coun-
                                                                    try and Puerto Rico, and we need to support them with these re-
                                                                    source partners and the Community Navigator Pilot Program.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Well, I appreciate that answer. I want to—the
                                                                    other area that additional resources were provided was for the
                                                                    Navigator program. This is new. We had not had this before. And
                                                                    the administration just recently announced the implementation of
                                                                    the Navigator program by using a hub-and-spoke system with
                                                                    three-tier participation.
                                                                       And I have looked at the 51 hubs that have been selected and
                                                                    see a good variety of nonprofit-type entities that are marshaling
                                                                    the Federal funds and then reach out for partners in local commu-
                                                                    nities, so sometimes as small as just one county, sometimes a
                                                                    State. In my State of Maryland, oh, I think we have somewhere
                                                                    around 10 spokes that are currently operating under 4 national
                                                                    hubs.
                                                                       You have had now a little bit of time to assess how the program
                                                                    is working. It was originally conceived in order to direct small busi-
                                                                    nesses to where they could get the help they needed with the tools
                                                                    that are available under—for small businesses, which sometimes
                                                                    would be SBA, but sometimes it is local government; sometimes it
                                                                    is private sector help. Can you share with us the initial assessment
                                                                    of how the Navigator program is operating?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you, Chairman Cardin. The boots are on the
                                                                    ground I am happy to report. And thank you for mentioning the
                                                                    coverage in Maryland. We have coverage in 50 states and Puerto
                                                                    Rico through the Navigators with the hub-and-spoke system. The
                                                                    51 grantees represent not only geographic diversity but diversity in
                                                                    coverage and sectors served.
                                                                       We have rural America covered through the likes of such like the
                                                                    Abilene Chamber of Commerce, for instance, and we have our di-
                                                                    versity segments. We are so proud of that work. We have Tier 1
                                                                    grantees with the National Urban League, with the United States
                                                                    Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, U.S. Black Chambers. We have
                                                                    the Institute of Veterans and Military Families out of Syracuse
                                                                    serving military, you know, veteran entrepreneurs and their
                                                                    spouses. We have the Oweesta Corporation serving small busi-
                                                                    nesses in Indian Country, the U.S. Pan Asian American Chamber
                                                                    focusing on the AAPI community. Also, women entrepreneurs are
                                                                    being served, rural entrepreneurs. So we are very, very excited.
                                                                       And I will give you an example with the Institute of Veterans
                                                                    and Military Families (IVMF) in Syracuse. All they are doing is
                                                                    scaling the support that they have given. One in particular, a vet-
                                                                    eran opened a business recently to help other veterans with bene-
                                                                    fits, and he turned to the IVMF to scale that business. And we are
                                                                    happy to report that it is working and that is the type of services
                                                                    that will be rendered by IVMF with multiple states.
                                                                       And when you look at the State of Maryland, we are excited
                                                                    about the Disability Institute. Who does not want to serve disabled
                                                                    small business owners? And so that focus of the Disability Institute




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00018   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     15

                                                                    in their mind, they issued to us and shared with us that until now
                                                                    disability small businesses felt invisible. So that is an example of
                                                                    the work that is being done on the ground.
                                                                       We have other examples. Recently, I did travel to Abilene, Texas,
                                                                    and took a look at their footprint in terms of the spoke arrange-
                                                                    ment that they have with the Cisco Community College there, and
                                                                    they are looking specifically in that area as well to serve women-
                                                                    owned businesses and also the veterans at that base. And we were
                                                                    also delighted to have the Abilene Black Chamber of Commerce.
                                                                    That is the second oldest Black Chamber in the State of Texas.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. So let me follow-up just briefly on this as far
                                                                    as how the accountability works. You mentioned National Dis-
                                                                    ability Institute. They are one of the hub grantees. They have a
                                                                    spoke in Maryland, Griffin-Hammis Associates. How does that rela-
                                                                    tionship work as far as the accountability to make sure the services
                                                                    are really going as intended?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Absolutely. Thank you for the question, Senator
                                                                    Cardin. So we have a robust technology platform that is real-time
                                                                    that is between the spokes and the hubs. The hubs are the
                                                                    aggregator of the data that is reported back to our team at the Of-
                                                                    fice of Entrepreneurship Education and grants management team
                                                                    there and our grants management specialists and supporting team.
                                                                    So this is real-time data that is being supported and aggregated
                                                                    through the hubs, and the hubs are submitting the data to us for
                                                                    evaluation. And that will be done every quarter, but we also have
                                                                    real-time acquisition of that data.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                       Senator Paul.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. Do you believe the taxpayer has a right to know
                                                                    how you spend their money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Senator Dr. Paul, thank you for that question. We—
                                                                    in the Office of Entrepreneurial Development, our purview is help-
                                                                    ing our small businesses navigate through their taxes. We are not
                                                                    in tax policy.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. No, no, we are not talking about tax policy. I am
                                                                    talking about the citizens. Do the citizens of the United States
                                                                    have a right to know how you are spending their money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Well, in our area, we are focused on developing en-
                                                                    trepreneurs.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. No, no. This is a transparency question. Do you
                                                                    think the citizens of the United States, through their representa-
                                                                    tives, have a right to get information from you and your depart-
                                                                    ment about how you are spending the money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We—my purview is to assist our resource partner
                                                                    network and the Community Navigator——
                                                                       Senator PAUL. It is a sort of a ‘‘yes’’ or ‘‘no.’’ I do not think you
                                                                    are getting the question. It is a real simple question. The answer
                                                                    is ‘‘yes, of course, the citizens do,’’ but you cannot say that?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. I can attest to what we are doing at the Office of
                                                                    Entrepreneurial Development.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. No. But, I mean, it is a more general question. Do
                                                                    the citizens of the United States have the right to know how you
                                                                    are spending their money?




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00019   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     16

                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Dr. Paul, I can shine the light on what we are doing
                                                                    at OED and, you know, in terms of tax preparation, materials that
                                                                    we have——
                                                                       Senator PAUL. This is a really general question just on trans-
                                                                    parency. Do the citizens of the United States, through their rep-
                                                                    resentative, have the right to ask questions about how you are
                                                                    spending their money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. I am here to answer any questions that you have
                                                                    on the Office of Entrepreneurial Development.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. It is a ‘‘yes’’ or ‘‘no.’’ Can you acknowledge that,
                                                                    yes, citizens have a right and an expectation to know how their
                                                                    money is spent by organizations? That is why you come here. It is
                                                                    for oversight. It is a very general question. It is not accusing you
                                                                    of anything. It is just saying, do citizens have the right to know
                                                                    how you are spending their money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Dr. Paul, I would love to just shed some more light
                                                                    on the Office of Entrepreneurial Development.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. But you cannot answer whether or not citizens
                                                                    have the right to know how you are spending the money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. I would be happy to talk about our tax preparation
                                                                    classes with our resource partners.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. But you cannot acknowledge, yes or no, whether
                                                                    citizens have the right and the expectation, through their rep-
                                                                    resentatives, Republicans and Democrats, to ask you for informa-
                                                                    tion on how money is spent? That is a yes-or-no question. It is
                                                                    about—it is a very basic question about transparency, but I am not
                                                                    hearing you answer a ‘‘yes’’ or ‘‘no.’’
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Dr. Paul, I would love to tell you more about what
                                                                    we are doing at the Office of Entrepreneurial Development. I am
                                                                    energized to be here and talk about our programs throughout the
                                                                    country.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. But it sounds like you are obfuscating the issue
                                                                    and you are not willing to answer that there is sunlight and that
                                                                    you are open to any kind of scrutiny by representatives as to how
                                                                    you are spending the money. You do not believe that citizens have
                                                                    the right to understand how you are spending money and to ask
                                                                    questions through their representatives about how you spend the
                                                                    money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Dr. Paul, I am here to answer any questions that
                                                                    you have on——
                                                                       Senator PAUL. But I am asking you, do citizens have the right
                                                                    to know that, and you are giving me some other answer that is not
                                                                    an answer to the question. This is a question: Do citizens have the
                                                                    right to expect you to answer questions about how your money is
                                                                    spent?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Dr. Paul, I am here to answer any questions that
                                                                    you have on the fulfillment of our OED programs that include the
                                                                    resource partner footprint, the Community Navigator.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. Let the record show that the witness is refusing
                                                                    to answer a very basic question about transparency.
                                                                       The reason I ask this question is we sent you questions back in
                                                                    the beginning of the summer about the Community Navigator Pro-
                                                                    gram. These are not political questions that I know of. How many
                                                                    organizations applied for funds under the Community Navigators




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00020   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     17

                                                                    Program? That question was asked in the beginning of last sum-
                                                                    mer. We asked again in November, and we have not had answers.
                                                                    I think your staff decided to send us some piece of paper today or
                                                                    yesterday still not answering that question.
                                                                       What is the geographic distribution of states and localities cov-
                                                                    ered by each grantee?
                                                                       These are not even politically charged questions that we some-
                                                                    times encounter, but you cannot even answer whether or not citi-
                                                                    zens have an expectation to get answers from you, and then when
                                                                    we ask questions you do not answer them. That, to me, is serious
                                                                    breach of your duty as a civil servant.
                                                                       You cannot answer a question on sunlight, and then when we
                                                                    send you written questions of an objective nature you refuse to an-
                                                                    swer the question. You do not even respond to us. I mean, that is
                                                                    utterly contemptuous and disregarding of representative govern-
                                                                    ment.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Dr. Paul, we did answer your letter. So I would be
                                                                    happy to answer——
                                                                       Senator PAUL. When was the answer? When were the questions
                                                                    answered?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We will get back to your office, but I know that we
                                                                    answered.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. No. The questions that I just asked you, the two
                                                                    questions. We got something yesterday or today from your office,
                                                                    when you knew you were going to be here and have to answer
                                                                    some questions. You resisted for months sending any answer, but
                                                                    you still have not answered the two questions I just outlined. I do
                                                                    not believe we have got an answer for either one of those questions.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Well, Dr. Paul, we believe in transparency, and we
                                                                    did respond to your question.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. No more questions.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Let me point out I believe the Community
                                                                    Navigator Program started in December. So it is a relatively new
                                                                    program. So the information is just, I think, becoming available in
                                                                    a way that it is going to be meaningful for us to be able to obtain
                                                                    the type of information that Senator Paul has requested.
                                                                       Senator Hickenlooper.
                                                                       Senator HICKENLOOPER. There. Great. Thank you, Mr. Madrid,
                                                                    for appearing today but also for your extensive public service. And
                                                                    I think your father’s story is obviously an inspiration to you but I
                                                                    think can be an inspiration to all of us.
                                                                       We saw, somewhat surprisingly, a dramatic increase in entrepre-
                                                                    neurship during COVID, almost 24 percent. How are the entrepre-
                                                                    neurial development programs—how are they handling that, and
                                                                    how is—how are they supporting these new businesses?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Well, thank you, Senator, for your question. I mean,
                                                                    it is an entrepreneurship boom for sure, 5.4 million new businesses
                                                                    applications. And when you think about that ecosystem in conjunc-
                                                                    tion with the repeat customers of the SBA, those that were going
                                                                    to our resource partners, our SCORE chapters, our SBDCs and
                                                                    Women’s Business Centers, and then you think about the cus-
                                                                    tomers that came to the SBA for the first time during the pan-
                                                                    demic, so you have three ecosystems that were supported. And they




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00021   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     18

                                                                    need to be served just like I was mentioning the Yaelis of the
                                                                    world.
                                                                       And we have so many examples that small businesses—we all
                                                                    know that 20 percent of small businesses that are formed die in the
                                                                    first year. That is a fact. That data supports it. So we all need to
                                                                    work together to support them. After all, they do create almost half
                                                                    of our jobs, and that is just a resounding tick of new entrepreneur-
                                                                    ship in the midst of a global pandemic. So we look forward to sup-
                                                                    porting them through the networks that I have described.
                                                                       Senator HICKENLOOPER. Great. And I want to just kind of follow-
                                                                    up on that because I do know as a small business person myself.
                                                                    I spent 20 years in small business and did avail myself of an SBA
                                                                    504 loan and went through that whole process after, I guess, I had
                                                                    been in business three or four years. The thing that most surprised
                                                                    me—and I was tremendously, and unto this day, appreciative—was
                                                                    the counseling, that in the process of applying for a loan how much
                                                                    small business advice I got.
                                                                       My dad died when I was a little kid. I did not have any family
                                                                    members who were in business. I was really kind of—I mean, I had
                                                                    to go to the library on how to write a business plan. I did not—
                                                                    honestly, I was a geologist. I did not know what the word ‘‘pro
                                                                    forma’’ meant.
                                                                       And the staff at the Small Business Administration really bent
                                                                    over backward to make sure that not only did I understand the
                                                                    programs but that I thought, you know, they had concrete sugges-
                                                                    tions on how I might think about marketing and how I might think
                                                                    about expanding my business, which were invaluable. Part of their
                                                                    advice was about staffing, hiring personnel, and I think certainly
                                                                    when I—I opened in an abandoned part of downtown Denver, and
                                                                    we had a very diverse workforce.
                                                                       And I think today we see more and more women-owned busi-
                                                                    nesses, more and more minority-owned businesses also dealing
                                                                    with a diverse workforce and right now with real trouble, real chal-
                                                                    lenges in terms of their hiring. And one of those issues that I expe-
                                                                    rienced back then, and I think people are experiencing today, is the
                                                                    skills gap. And how do your entrepreneurial development programs
                                                                    address—or, how can we do a better job of addressing—the issue
                                                                    of reskilling? And how do we help people get those skills that allow
                                                                    you to upskill existing employees but actually make sure that in-
                                                                    coming employees have the necessary skills?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you, Senator, for that question. And I chuck-
                                                                    led at ‘‘pro forma’’ because I was also a business owner many years
                                                                    ago and I did not know what that meant either until I learned from
                                                                    going to one of these Small Business Development Centers.
                                                                       Upskilling and workforce development is critical. I was visiting
                                                                    with a small business owner in the Lehigh Valley area of Pennsyl-
                                                                    vania, in Reading, Pennsylvania, Johanny Cepeda, the owner of Mi
                                                                    Casa Su Casa. And she said: ‘‘Mark, when the COVID–19 hap-
                                                                    pened and lockdown happened, I had no idea how to transform my
                                                                    restaurant business into a digital business, whether I should go
                                                                    with one of the DoorDashes of the world. And that required edu-
                                                                    cation. That required technology.’’
                                                                       And so she talked about taking care of her workforce, keeping
                                                                    them safe. She talked about quality childcare and access to re-




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00022   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     19

                                                                    sources and also education. So all those buckets we fulfill at OED,
                                                                    whether it is the resource partners that pivoted to be virtual. Also,
                                                                    that is a rural area. So she was able to lean into the district office
                                                                    and the SBDC and that whole network, and now she is leaning into
                                                                    Community Navigators as well that will be servicing that service
                                                                    portfolio in that particular area.
                                                                       Senator HICKENLOOPER. Great. Thank you very much and thanks
                                                                    for all your work.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you.
                                                                       Senator HICKENLOOPER. Back to the Chair or the Ranking Mem-
                                                                    ber.
                                                                       Senator PAUL [presiding]. Senator Marshall is no longer here.
                                                                    Senator Ernst?
                                                                       Senator ERNST. Yes, thank you so much. First off, I just want to
                                                                    say that I really do appreciate the Small Business Administration’s
                                                                    programs, especially in the area of entrepreneurship, whether that
                                                                    is for our veterans or women that are looking for opportunities.
                                                                       But I do want to say I am a little dismayed at the lack of an an-
                                                                    swer to our Ranking Member, Mr. Madrid. We are accountable to
                                                                    our constituents. They provide taxpayer dollars for many of the
                                                                    programs, most of the programs at SBA. And it should be easy for
                                                                    us to state back to them that we believe in transparency and, yes,
                                                                    they should have the ability to know how their taxpayer dollars are
                                                                    being spent. I think it is incredibly important that we provide
                                                                    transparency to those folks so that we know we are watching out
                                                                    for their dollars at every opportunity.
                                                                       So over the last couple of weeks, I have been in Iowa and doing
                                                                    a 99-county tour that I do every single year. And many of those
                                                                    constituents are telling me that their small businesses are really
                                                                    struggling under the impact of inflation in their businesses, they
                                                                    are struggling with supply chain issues, this is hurting them, it is
                                                                    hurting their employees, it is hurting their families.
                                                                       So on February 10th, I will be introducing the PRICE Act, and
                                                                    that would require all proposed spending to include a report detail-
                                                                    ing the impact on inflation and household incomes to provide
                                                                    American families the economic stability they need against this ad-
                                                                    ministration’s reckless spending. So again, this is a transparency
                                                                    measure. We want people to know and understand how those tax-
                                                                    payer dollars are being spent.
                                                                       So what is the SBA doing to help these small businesses navi-
                                                                    gate these escalating prices and to prevent those costs from being
                                                                    passed along to consumers? How can the administration help us re-
                                                                    spond to inflation to help struggling small businesses?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you for your question, Senator. And I did in-
                                                                    vest some time in Fort Dodge, Iowa, visiting with the Iowa SBDC
                                                                    when they launched their Inclusivity for All Challenge, and it was
                                                                    an unbelievable honor to be there in the Des Moines area, in Fort
                                                                    Dodge, and visiting with those rural entrepreneurs.
                                                                       What I would say is our resource partner footprint, specifically
                                                                    some of the SBDCs on the ground are looking at prices, specifically
                                                                    through supply chain education. For example, we have an SBDC at
                                                                    Rutgers University that is looking at inventory management and
                                                                    making sure that the supply chain, along with the Made in Amer-
                                                                    ica Initiative, is driving down cost. And so we are excited about




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00023   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     20

                                                                    that work that is being done across our footprint, and that includes
                                                                    the Women’s Business Centers as well.
                                                                       Senator ERNST. And, thank you. And I think there is a lot of
                                                                    other ideas that we can come up as well. So we will continue work-
                                                                    ing on that.
                                                                       And so you did mention kind of Made in the USA. So maybe talk
                                                                    a little bit more about any assistance for helping those small busi-
                                                                    nesses source domestically produced alternatives as we are going
                                                                    through the supply chain issue?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Absolutely. Under President Biden’s leadership, we
                                                                    are looking at opening more ports and getting more inputs on the
                                                                    ground, specifically with our small business owners. And so that
                                                                    training that I talked about with the SBDCs are Rutgers Univer-
                                                                    sity is looking exactly at that, using—there is a motto: Get busi-
                                                                    ness for each other and do business with each other right here in
                                                                    the U.S.A. And so they are looking at, you know, peer-to-peer man-
                                                                    agement systems where they can drive down those costs. So that
                                                                    is an example of one of the efforts that is happening on the ground.
                                                                       Senator ERNST. One of the issues that I heard while I was in
                                                                    Iowa visiting a furniture manufacturer was the issue with the
                                                                    ports, and so I do think we have to have greater capacity at the
                                                                    ports. So while it is getting those ships in, unloading them, getting
                                                                    that cargo stored in containers there at those port yards—but what
                                                                    I am also hearing is the shortage of CDL drivers and then the abil-
                                                                    ity of drivers to go into those ports when they are nonunion driv-
                                                                    ers. Is that something that the SBA could be pushing with the Ad-
                                                                    ministration? Opening up those ports to all drivers.
                                                                       If you have a CDL, you have passed the requirements. So the ex-
                                                                    cuse that we had heard through this business, what they had been
                                                                    told is that nonunion drivers were not considered safe. So some of
                                                                    those ports were not allowing nonunion drivers to come in and pick
                                                                    up containers, which is exacerbating the supply chain issue.
                                                                       So I am a little concerned that this Administration needs to find
                                                                    other avenues of opening up the flow of goods to help our small
                                                                    businesses. Is that something that the SBA can communicate to
                                                                    the Administration?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We look forward to continuing to help our small
                                                                    businesses. We would love to hear from your office on this issue.
                                                                       Senator ERNST. Thank you. That is all I have.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. Senator Rosen by Zoom.
                                                                       Senator ROSEN. Yes, yes. Thank you, Ranking Member Paul. Ap-
                                                                    preciate you calling on me. Thank you for holding this important
                                                                    hearing to review the SBA’s entrepreneurial development programs
                                                                    and its initiatives, and I want to thank the witnesses here for the
                                                                    testimony today.
                                                                       I want to talk a little bit about support for startups because Ne-
                                                                    vada is home to more than 280,000 small businesses, which actu-
                                                                    ally make up over 99 percent of businesses in our State. Over the
                                                                    past two years, Nevada has seen a spike in new startups, creating
                                                                    jobs, of course, and great new economic opportunities. And accord-
                                                                    ing to the Economic Development Authority of Western Nevada,
                                                                    the Reno-Sparks Metro Area alone, nearly 100 startups have
                                                                    launched since the beginning of the pandemic.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00024   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     21

                                                                       Startups, we know, are an integral part of the American econ-
                                                                    omy, and they are increasingly becoming part of Nevada’s economic
                                                                    resurgence from the pandemic. And as a strong advocate for entre-
                                                                    preneurship, I want to ensure that this surge continues. So, Mr.
                                                                    Madrid, how is SBA encouraging new startups in the midst of the
                                                                    pandemic, and how can Congress help you improve the startup eco-
                                                                    system, particularly in the emerging startup markets beyond Sil-
                                                                    icon Valley, markets like Las Vegas and Reno?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I am happy
                                                                    to report that one of Administrator Guzman’s charges is to focus
                                                                    on innovative startups. So thank you for your question.
                                                                       Innovative startups. Given that stat of 5.4 new business applica-
                                                                    tions in 2021, which is 1 million more than the previous year and
                                                                    a record, this is absolutely essential when we look at the job cre-
                                                                    ation potential and also considering that 20 percent of new busi-
                                                                    nesses die in the first year. So we are excited.
                                                                       I am glad you mentioned, you know, Nevada there. We recently
                                                                    visited with an entrepreneur there that is in utilities. It is Live
                                                                    Electric. And she was a graduate of our Emerging Leaders Pro-
                                                                    gram, and she talked about her startup phase and the journey of
                                                                    becoming a woman-owned certified business and her journey in
                                                                    terms of procuring with the utilities companies. And she would not
                                                                    have been able to do it as quickly or as efficiently without the sup-
                                                                    port of the resource partners.
                                                                       And so we are excited to continue that storyline and the storyline
                                                                    that I mentioned with the 5.4 million potentially Yaelis of the
                                                                    world and their startup phase because we do not want one to fail,
                                                                    much less 20 percent.
                                                                       Senator ROSEN. Thank you. I want to move on and talk about ex-
                                                                    panding our program eligibility because, you know, there has been
                                                                    a lot of economic challenges brought on by the pandemic. It has
                                                                    been devastating for small businesses, of course, not just in Nevada
                                                                    but everywhere. But Nevada, we still have the second highest un-
                                                                    employment rate in the Nation. So for some of my constituents,
                                                                    without additional relief or at least access to the SBA’s traditional
                                                                    support programs, their businesses could end up closing their
                                                                    doors.
                                                                       It is why I have made a priority to expand SBA program eligi-
                                                                    bility to all small businesses in Nevada and nationwide. And last
                                                                    year, Senator Ernst, who was just before me, she and I have bipar-
                                                                    tisan legislation to allow nonprofit, small-business childcare pro-
                                                                    viders to participate in all SBA programs. I have also advocated for
                                                                    state-legal cannabis small businesses to receive equal support from
                                                                    the SBA.
                                                                       So again, Mr. Madrid, as the U.S. faces a childcare crisis, what
                                                                    can the SBA do to ensure that nonprofit childcare providers get the
                                                                    entrepreneurial development support that they need? And sepa-
                                                                    rately, in Nevada and so many other states, we do have legalized
                                                                    marijuana, and what can we do to ensure that legal businesses, in-
                                                                    cluding state-legal cannabis business, small businesses, can take
                                                                    advantage of these entrepreneurial programs as well?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for mentioning
                                                                    the criticality of childcare. We are very interested at the agency
                                                                    level to help small business and invest in working small businesses




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00025   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     22

                                                                    so that they can have quality and affordable childcare. Thank you
                                                                    for your efforts with childcare businesses specifically in Nevada.
                                                                    And we will continue to look at that. We would love to work with
                                                                    your office, of course.
                                                                       So thank you for mentioning that and overall just about your
                                                                    sentiments on startups and specifically taking a look at the coali-
                                                                    tion building that is taking place in Nevada. We feel that the re-
                                                                    source partners, with their nuanced specialty programs and build-
                                                                    ing coalitions together and creating a cross referral network, in-
                                                                    cluding the Community Navigators, is going to be essential. It is
                                                                    going to be essential in Nevada as well.
                                                                       Senator ROSEN. Thank you.
                                                                       I see my time is just about 10 seconds. So, Mr. Chair, I will yield
                                                                    back.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN [presiding]. Senator Hawley.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                       Thanks for being here, Mr. Madrid. Before I start, I do want to
                                                                    come back to I am flummoxed by your exchange with Senator Paul.
                                                                    I cannot understand your position on this. Why is it that you think
                                                                    that taxpayers should not be able to have an accounting of how you
                                                                    are spending money?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Senator Hawley, great to see you. We do believe in
                                                                    accountability and transparency.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. But that is not my question. My question is:
                                                                    Why don’t you think they should be able to see how you are spend-
                                                                    ing the money? It is their money, not your money. And I just do
                                                                    not understand. Why is it you think they should not receive an ac-
                                                                    counting of how your office is spending the money, how SBA is
                                                                    spending its money?
                                                                       What is the—there must be some philosophical objection here. I
                                                                    just do not understand what it is.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. You should be able to see everything that we report
                                                                    and through our public reporting. So we do believe in account-
                                                                    ability and transparency.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Oh, so you do think then that the public should
                                                                    be able to see what you spend and what you do. Is that right?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. I am replying in terms of our footprint at OED and
                                                                    our public reporting on our resource partners.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. So, okay, I got it. So the locus of your disagree-
                                                                    ment with Senator Paul is you just do not want to answer the
                                                                    questions he asked you. That is the real answer. Is that right?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Senator, thank you for your question. I am here
                                                                    to—you know, I am here to report on the Office of Entrepreneurial
                                                                    Development and my purview, and so that is what I will continue
                                                                    to do.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Yes, the reason I think it is so irritating, frank-
                                                                    ly, is because this administration and this SBA has repeatedly and
                                                                    consistently stonewalled this Committee, and in particular the Re-
                                                                    publicans on this Committee, for going on a solid year now. It is
                                                                    really extraordinary. So to have you come in here and say that you
                                                                    do not think that you ought to have to give an accounting for tax-
                                                                    payer money is really extraordinary.
                                                                       So I just want the record to reflect that, that I completely agree
                                                                    with Senator Paul and Senator Ernst that your position on this,




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00026   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     23

                                                                    this administration’s position on this, is just really frankly unbe-
                                                                    lievable, and I am startled that you are taking the positions you
                                                                    are.
                                                                       Let me ask you about some other accountability. For this fiscal
                                                                    year, fiscal year 2022 I should say, SBA submitted budget justifica-
                                                                    tions that request funding increases for most of the programs and
                                                                    initiatives that we are here to discuss. I want to know about some
                                                                    of the data, however, that has been published about how effective
                                                                    these various programs are.
                                                                       For example, Small Business Development Centers, according to
                                                                    data collected by the SBA’s Office of Entrepreneurial Development
                                                                    in their annual studies from 2003 to 2012, only 20 percent of pro-
                                                                    gram participants reported that the services they received enabled
                                                                    them to retain current staff, only 16 percent reported that services
                                                                    received enabled them to hire new staff, and only 29 percent of par-
                                                                    ticipants said that the services they received had a positive impact
                                                                    on their profit margin. So let me just ask you, Mr. Madrid, does
                                                                    the Office of Entrepreneurial Development continue to conduct an-
                                                                    nual studies of program participants to assess the impact and effec-
                                                                    tiveness of these programs?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We report on our outcomes and our goals, and that
                                                                    is standard per the statute. So we report on the metrics and the
                                                                    goals annually, and those are publicly available.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. But do you do studies to assess the impact of
                                                                    the programs? I mean, we know that SBA did from 2003 to 2012.
                                                                    My staff has not been able to find any reports published, I think,
                                                                    past 2012. So this is just a factual question. Do you conduct annual
                                                                    studies of your program participants to assess the impact or no?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Senator, we issue public reports. So we would be
                                                                    happy to work with your office on the data that we do have and
                                                                    the reporting that we do have.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. But do you conduct annual studies of program
                                                                    participants? That is my question.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We report on the data that is aggregated from our
                                                                    resource partners.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. So that is a ‘‘yes’’ or that is a ‘‘no?’’
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We can report on the——
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. When was the last time you published an an-
                                                                    nual study?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. We can work with your office to give you our report-
                                                                    ing that we have on our——
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. But when was the last time you published an an-
                                                                    nual—I am just trying—these are not gotcha questions. I am just
                                                                    trying to establish some basic questions—some basic facts so I can
                                                                    ask you some questions about them. So either you are not prepared
                                                                    or you are not here to answer my questions, which goes back to
                                                                    what we talked about earlier.
                                                                       So let us try again. When was the last time you published an an-
                                                                    nual report? And you can read the memo your staff keeps giving.
                                                                    Maybe we should have the staffer come testify. He seems to be the
                                                                    one who is giving you the answers. We could probably make room
                                                                    at the table. If somebody is willing to answer questions, I would
                                                                    love to hear from them. Go ahead.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00027   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     24

                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Senator, thank you for your question. We report
                                                                    publicly, annually, on the metrics that are per the statute, and we
                                                                    would be happy to work with your office to supply them, the most
                                                                    recent ones.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Okay. So those are—you survey the partici-
                                                                    pants of the program annually?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. This is the data that we receive through our re-
                                                                    source partners, like capital infusion, unique clients served, et
                                                                    cetera. We would be happy to work with your office——
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Well, have the performance metrics that you
                                                                    have seen, have they improved since the publication of the 2013 re-
                                                                    port?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. I am sorry?
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Have the performance metrics that you have
                                                                    seen—you say that you collect performance metrics.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Yes, they have. There are some of the metrics that
                                                                    have improved, and I would be happy to supply them to your office.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Give me—well, give them to me. I mean,
                                                                    what—so in 2012, only 20 percent of program participants said
                                                                    that the services they received helped them retain current staff. So
                                                                    what is the number now?
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. I can give you what we do have in terms of the cap-
                                                                    ital infusion, and I would be happy to work with your office.
                                                                       Senator HAWLEY. Okay. I wish I could say this was productive,
                                                                    but it is manifestly not. And I do not know what to say, Mr. Chair-
                                                                    man, other than that we will give you a bunch of questions for the
                                                                    record.
                                                                       But if we are going to have these hearings and be able to do any
                                                                    kind of oversight, you are going to have to prepare and you are
                                                                    going to have to come prepared to answer questions. And this per-
                                                                    formance today, frankly, is just ridiculous.
                                                                       Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Let me just reinforce a couple comments that
                                                                    have been made. First, every member of this Committee is entitled
                                                                    to as much information as we can get for oversight. We do believe
                                                                    in transparency, as Mr. Madrid has said, and we want to make
                                                                    sure that every member has access, as well as the taxpayers have
                                                                    access, as to how the programs at any Federal agency, including
                                                                    the Small Business Administration, is handled.
                                                                       I am aware of several requests that were made by the Minority
                                                                    for information from the Small Business Administration, and I am
                                                                    also aware of that information being made available to the Minor-
                                                                    ity members. Whenever I have been asked by the Minority for in-
                                                                    formation, I have tried to facilitate that information being made
                                                                    available, and I think we have been successful in getting that infor-
                                                                    mation to the Minority. So I just want to go on record to indicate
                                                                    that we have had cooperation from the Small Business Administra-
                                                                    tion in providing members of this Committee detailed information.
                                                                       Now admittedly, a lot of this is not involved in the entrepreneur-
                                                                    ship programs. This is other areas that have been more of interest
                                                                    to the Republican members. But in regards to the entrepreneurship
                                                                    programs, many of these are, as I said particularly on the Navi-
                                                                    gator program, a new program. And we do really want to oversight
                                                                    that, so we do want to make sure that we get timely information.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00028   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     25

                                                                       And let me just reinforce one of the messages from my Repub-
                                                                    lican colleagues. During the last administration, we had significant
                                                                    challenges in getting information as to how the new programs set
                                                                    up under the CARES Act were being administered, and we needed
                                                                    that information as we were adjusting the policy and deciding
                                                                    whether to replenish the funds. And we could not get that informa-
                                                                    tion. We knew there was something needed to be adjusted, but we
                                                                    did not have the specific information in order to do it even though
                                                                    we were certain that the SBA had that information. It just was not
                                                                    making it available to us. So as an effort to try to correct that, we
                                                                    actually put language in the statute to require timely information
                                                                    to Congress so that we could adjust policies.
                                                                       So this has been a constant challenge in regards to those who ad-
                                                                    minister the programs and getting information to Congress, and it
                                                                    is critically important that we get timely information so that if re-
                                                                    sources are needed or adjustments in policies are needed or some-
                                                                    thing is not going right, we can work together to make sure that
                                                                    the funds are used in a most cost-effective way.
                                                                       Let us be pretty clear about this. The SBA was charged during
                                                                    COVID–19 with an unprecedented amount of responsibilities. Over
                                                                    a trillion dollars of assistance was given out under the umbrella of
                                                                    the SBA. They had never before come anywhere close to that
                                                                    amount of money being allocated over multiple years. So this was
                                                                    a new challenge, and I think by and large we were very proud of
                                                                    the manner in which these programs were stood up, the amount of
                                                                    extraordinary work the staff put in to make sure these timely aids
                                                                    could be gotten.
                                                                       So I just really want to make it clear that despite some of the
                                                                    questions and the tone of the questions I do believe we have had
                                                                    cooperation from the SBA. I would like to see more timely informa-
                                                                    tion made available to us so that we can do our responsibility and
                                                                    would urge the administration to be sensitive not just to the In-
                                                                    spector General but to Congress to make sure that we get timely
                                                                    information in order to properly be able to review programs.
                                                                       With that, Mr. Madrid, thank you very much for your testimony,
                                                                    and we are going to turn now to the second panel.
                                                                       Mr. MADRID. Thank you very much.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. As I explained at the beginning of this hear-
                                                                    ing, there are votes going on, on the floor of the United States Sen-
                                                                    ate. So Senator Paul was kind enough to stay here so I could cast
                                                                    my vote. He is now back voting on the Senate floor.
                                                                       We have six witnesses on the second panel. I believe Senator
                                                                    Paul may wish to make some additional comments in regard to
                                                                    three of these witnesses that were invited at his request. So what
                                                                    I will do is give brief introductions for all six but recognize that
                                                                    Senator Paul may very well wish to supplement that in regards to
                                                                    the three witnesses that he invited to the panel.
                                                                       So let me welcome all six of our witnesses. What I will do is try
                                                                    to introduce this, if I can, in the order in which we will be asking
                                                                    you to speak.
                                                                       Our first witness will be ‘‘Tee’’ Rowe, who is the President and
                                                                    CEO of America’s Small Business Development Centers. Mr. Rowe
                                                                    has a long history of legislative and advocacy experience on behalf
                                                                    of the small business community. Prior to joining America’s SBDC,




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00029   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     26

                                                                    he served as the Associate Administrator for Congressional Legisla-
                                                                    tive Affairs for the United States Small Business Administration
                                                                    from 2005 to 2009.
                                                                       Next would be Mr. Michael Hendrix, who is a senior fellow and
                                                                    Director of State and Local Policy at the Manhattan Institute. His
                                                                    writings have appeared in various national publications, including
                                                                    the National Review, the City Journal, and National Affairs. He
                                                                    holds a master’s degree in international relations from the Univer-
                                                                    sity of St. Andrews.
                                                                       Our third witness would be Corinne Hodges, who joined the As-
                                                                    sociation of Women’s Business Centers as CEO in January 2019
                                                                    and is charged with bringing about enhanced sustainability and in-
                                                                    creased capacity to the Association and its members. Her imme-
                                                                    diate priority is the modernization and reauthorization—an issue I
                                                                    want to talk about—of the Women’s Business Center Program
                                                                    while building capacity throughout their growing network of 135
                                                                    Women’s Business Centers. She resides in beautiful Brunswick,
                                                                    Maryland, with her husband of 16 years and her 14 year old child.
                                                                       Our fourth witness is Chris Edwards. Chris Edwards is the Di-
                                                                    rector of Tax Policy Studies at CATO Institute and serves as a
                                                                    member of the Fiscal Future Commission of the National Academy
                                                                    of Sciences. Prior to joining CATO, he served as a senior economist
                                                                    at the Joint Economic Committee, a manager with
                                                                    PricewaterhouseCoopers, and an economist with the Tax Founda-
                                                                    tion. He holds a bachelor’s in economics from the University of Wa-
                                                                    terloo and a master’s in economics from George Mason.
                                                                       Our fifth witness is Bridget Weston. Bridget Weston is the CEO
                                                                    of the SCORE Association, where she provides executive leadership
                                                                    and works directly and collaboratively with the board of directors
                                                                    to establish the vision and direction of SCORE. Additionally, she
                                                                    has served as a member of the Futures Task Force that created
                                                                    SCORE’s vision for 2025 and has been a leader in the fiscal year
                                                                    2020 tactical plan for SCORE.
                                                                       And rounding out the panel is Hannah Cox, Content Manager
                                                                    and Brand Ambassador for the Foundation for Economic Education
                                                                    and the host of the podcast BASEDPolitics. Her work revolves
                                                                    around the defense of free markets, individual liberty, and limited
                                                                    government.
                                                                       Before turning to the witnesses, let me recognize the Ranking
                                                                    Member, Senator Paul, if he wants to make any comments in re-
                                                                    gards to these—he is fine, okay.
                                                                       I hope I did a good job introducing your witnesses. I did the best
                                                                    I could.
                                                                       We will start off with Mr. Rowe.

                                                                           STATEMENT OF C.E. ‘‘TEE’’ ROWE, PRESIDENT AND CEO,
                                                                                     AMERICA’S SBDC, BURKE, VA
                                                                      Mr. ROWE. Thank you, Chairman Cardin.
                                                                      Chairman CARDIN. I should point out, without objection, your full
                                                                    written testimony is being made part of the record. You may pro-
                                                                    ceed as you wish.
                                                                      Mr. ROWE. Thank you, Chairman Cardin, Ranking Member Paul,
                                                                    Senators. Thank you for inviting me to testify.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00030   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     27

                                                                       I am the President of America’s SBDC, the association of Small
                                                                    Business Development Centers. For over 40 years, SBDCs have
                                                                    been providing services to small business owners throughout the
                                                                    Nation. We operate out of our host institutions and operate state-
                                                                    wide. But while SBDCs may be headquartered at colleges and uni-
                                                                    versities, our centers are in the communities. That is why you will
                                                                    find SBDCs at the St. Mary’s County Economic Development Of-
                                                                    fice, the city hall in Berea, Kentucky, or the Boulder Public Li-
                                                                    brary.
                                                                       SBDCs help all small businesses at all stages. Roughly 50 per-
                                                                    cent of our clients are women, 10 percent of our clients are vet-
                                                                    erans, and minority clients comprise about 38 percent of our client
                                                                    base. In an average year, we provide over 1.5 million hours of coun-
                                                                    seling and training to over 500,000 small business owners and
                                                                    their employees, and that assistance has generated results. From
                                                                    1990 to 2020, our clients accessed $82 billion in capital, increased
                                                                    their sales by $144 billion, and created 4 million jobs, and that
                                                                    helped generate over $11 billion in tax revenue.
                                                                       And as I laid out in my written statement, we offer a wide vari-
                                                                    ety of assistance. So I would really like to just focus on a few
                                                                    things.
                                                                       First, our COVID pandemic response. Over the last year and a
                                                                    half, SBDCs have done over three years’ worth of work. We partici-
                                                                    pated in over 3,500 webinars and assisted over 315,000 people just
                                                                    in the first few months of the pandemic. Our networks opened new
                                                                    centers, like the nine in Pennsylvania, hired new advisors, and
                                                                    pivoted to provide specific services aimed at helping small busi-
                                                                    nesses weather the pandemic. We assisted them with billions in fi-
                                                                    nancing through PPP, EIDL, SVOG, and Restaurant Revitalization.
                                                                       And now, hopefully coming out, our client surveys show us that
                                                                    the most urgent need is finding new customers, which was also
                                                                    their most frequent challenge during the pandemic. Of course, they
                                                                    also still need help with strategic planning, digital marketing, sup-
                                                                    ply chain flexibility, and employee retention.
                                                                       Going forward, we see small businesses increasingly reliant on
                                                                    technology. That is why we teach cybersecurity as well as social
                                                                    media. We have based our cybersecurity program on the DOD Cy-
                                                                    bersecurity Maturity Model. The Delaware SBDC’s DatAssured
                                                                    Program covers all facets of that DOD guidance, to provide basic
                                                                    education for small businesses, and it was nationally recognized by
                                                                    the Department of Homeland Security and has been adopted by
                                                                    over a dozen SBDC networks.
                                                                       Now these changes are going to present significant challenges in
                                                                    communities, underserved communities, particularly with limited
                                                                    broadband access, and those are both urban and rural commu-
                                                                    nities. And to overcome that, SBDCs are increasing our outreach,
                                                                    working with Urban League chapters, Black and Hispanic Cham-
                                                                    bers, to ensure that we are reaching everyone. And we have centers
                                                                    at 21 Historically Black Colleges and Universities.
                                                                       And to further that effort, we have begun the Inclusivity Chal-
                                                                    lenge based on our Northern California SBDC’s Inclusivity Project.
                                                                    The Inclusivity Challenge is all about helping all entrepreneurs
                                                                    overcome impediments to their success. That effort is complemen-




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00031   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     28

                                                                    tary, we believe, to the Community Navigators Program. In fact,
                                                                    several SBDCs are already engaged in Community Navigators.
                                                                       We are dedicated to finding the most effective ways to deliver
                                                                    services to small business, and to that end we strongly support re-
                                                                    authorization of the entrepreneurial development programs. We
                                                                    think it is time to review and renew the commitment to assisting
                                                                    small business.
                                                                       I have one final item, and that is the need for collaboration and
                                                                    cooperation between all small business programs. Now our three
                                                                    programs work well together, but there are so many more across
                                                                    the Federal Government. And frankly, we need to integrate all
                                                                    those activities so we can all be more effective and cut out what
                                                                    I consider to be unnecessary friction and siloes.
                                                                       That concludes my testimony. I look forward to any questions
                                                                    you all might have. Thank you.
                                                                       [The prepared statement of Mr. Rowe follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00032   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     29




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 007 here 47360.007


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00033   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     30




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 008 here 47360.008


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00034   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     31




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 009 here 47360.009


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00035   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     32




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 010 here 47360.010


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00036   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     33




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 011 here 47360.011


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00037   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     34




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 012 here 47360.012


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00038   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     35




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 013 here 47360.013


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00039   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     36




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 014 here 47360.014


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00040   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     37




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 015 here 47360.015


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00041   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     38




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 016 here 47360.016


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00042   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     39




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 017 here 47360.017


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00043   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     40

                                                                          Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                          Michael Hendrix.

                                                                            STATEMENT OF MICHAEL HENDRIX, SENIOR FELLOW,
                                                                                 MANHATTAN INSTITUTE, NEW YORK, NY
                                                                       Mr. HENDRIX. Chairman Cardin, Ranking Member Paul, mem-
                                                                    bers of the Committee, thank you for the honor of participating in
                                                                    today’s hearing.
                                                                       My name is Michael Hendrix, and I serve at the Manhattan In-
                                                                    stitute. And today, I want to be clear at the outset. Entrepreneurial
                                                                    success makes the American dream a reality. New businesses cre-
                                                                    ate jobs, foster opportunity, help build vibrant communities, and
                                                                    empower marginalized Americans. And the SBA, through its re-
                                                                    source partners, has committed to assisting these entrepreneurs,
                                                                    and they should be applauded for their worthy mission.
                                                                       But my message today is also simple. The SBA’s entrepreneurial
                                                                    development programs and initiatives are too often opaque, ineffec-
                                                                    tive, and duplicative. We must find a better way to serve America’s
                                                                    entrepreneurs.
                                                                       First of all, the track record and oversight of the SBA’s entrepre-
                                                                    neurial development program is spotty at best. If these programs
                                                                    helping small businesses were small businesses themselves, they
                                                                    would have failed.
                                                                       I have visited these offices before. At one, at a startup hub, I was
                                                                    told my first step as a technology entrepreneur was to visit the li-
                                                                    brary to learn Microsoft Word and after that to write a business
                                                                    plan which I could design with MS Paint and clip art. Not only was
                                                                    this advice clearly out of date; it was also out of context.
                                                                       Worse yet, the SBA and their partners are barely keeping track
                                                                    of whether their work actually works. The SBA’s Inspector General
                                                                    has found again and again the Agency has poor oversight over its
                                                                    resource partners and the taxpayer dollars they are spending. For
                                                                    instance, they were not accurately measuring or reporting whether
                                                                    SCORE was achieving any goals or, quote, assessing whether the
                                                                    program achieved its intended purpose. I cannot imagine they
                                                                    would advise their clients to do the same, nor would I hope that
                                                                    they would recommend their own management practices.
                                                                       The SBA’s recent multimillion-dollar hub for educating small
                                                                    businesses during the COVID–19 pandemic ended up helping just
                                                                    1 percent of the businesses it was intended to serve. And out of
                                                                    14,000 resource partner counselors, only 62 completed any of the
                                                                    training intended to help them help businesses. Just 62 out of
                                                                    14,000.
                                                                       The SBA’s resource partner network is also duplicative, plain
                                                                    and simple. When the SBA program and programs like SCORE
                                                                    were launched, there were not many resources like them available,
                                                                    but there are now. Today, if you would like a free business plan,
                                                                    Google gives you 3.5 billion results. The Harvard Business Review
                                                                    will show you ‘‘How to Write a Winning Business Plan’’ alongside
                                                                    Google’s 57 million video results answering the same question. If
                                                                    you are in need of mentoring, there is a long list of organizations
                                                                    now ready to help. We see programs in the private sector helping
                                                                    entrepreneurs without the need for government subsidies.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00044   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     41

                                                                      Meanwhile, the Agency’s Small Business Development Centers,
                                                                    Women’s Business Centers, Veterans Centers, SCORE chapters,
                                                                    they all provide similar services, and that is according to the SBA’s
                                                                    own Inspector General. Many of these facilities are also located
                                                                    close to one another. For instance, 95 percent of Women’s Business
                                                                    Centers are within 25 miles or less of an SBDC or SCORE office.
                                                                    When the SBA’s own Inspector General came before this Com-
                                                                    mittee in 2011, she had a simple message, reduce this duplicative
                                                                    business counseling, and that is a quote.
                                                                      For nearly 60 years, the SBA’s entrepreneurial development pro-
                                                                    gram has yielded questionable results and mounting inefficiencies.
                                                                    During this same time, new business formation has plummeted,
                                                                    not risen. Yet, every new decade has brought new initiatives, new
                                                                    requests for new funding. The folks in these organizations are well-
                                                                    intentioned. They have a worthy mission. They are good people.
                                                                    But ideally, groups like SCORE and others should be able to stand
                                                                    on their own two feet without tens of millions of dollars in Federal
                                                                    subsidy. They should compete just as their clients must.
                                                                      Of course, ultimately, we must ask: Is the Federal Government
                                                                    best placed to offer entrepreneurs advice?
                                                                      Thank you.
                                                                      [The prepared statement of Mr. Hendrix follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00045   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     42




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 018 here 47360.018


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00046   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     43




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 019 here 47360.019


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00047   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     44




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 020 here 47360.020


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00048   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     45




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 021 here 47360.021


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00049   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     46




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 022 here 47360.022


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00050   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     47




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 023 here 47360.023


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00051   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     48

                                                                          Chairman CARDIN. Thank you for your testimony.
                                                                          We will now hear from Corinne Hodges.
                                                                          STATEMENT OF CORINNE HODGES, CEO, ASSOCIATION OF
                                                                              WOMEN’S BUSINESS CENTERS, WASHINGTON, DC
                                                                       Ms. HODGES. Thank you, Chair Cardin, Ranking Member Paul,
                                                                    and members of the Committee for convening today’s hearing. On
                                                                    behalf of 140 Women’s Business Center grantees and nearly
                                                                    100,000 entrepreneurs served by our network, I appreciate the op-
                                                                    portunity to share the ongoing efforts and benefits of our program
                                                                    in catalyzing women’s business ownership.
                                                                       The Committee needs no reminding that the success of the Amer-
                                                                    ican economy depends on a robust entrepreneurial system. By any
                                                                    metric—net new jobs, GDP, share of innovation—it is dynamic
                                                                    small businesses that drive economic growth, and women have con-
                                                                    tributed heavily to that growth for the past several decades.
                                                                       Since today’s hearing is intended to review the government sup-
                                                                    port of this sector and technical assistance, I am here to say that
                                                                    investing in women business owners through the Women’s Busi-
                                                                    ness Center Program is delivering well worth the return on invest-
                                                                    ment. Even with the COVID crisis, every Federal dollar invested
                                                                    in the Women’s Business Center Program in 2020, at least $2.28
                                                                    flowed back into the economy from $61,769,695 in business revenue
                                                                    generated by those served. As the front line of technical assistance
                                                                    for our Nation’s 13 million women business owners, we help start
                                                                    and grow their businesses by providing counseling, training, men-
                                                                    toring, networking opportunities, as well as access to capital.
                                                                       In years past, policymakers questioned investment of taxpayer
                                                                    dollars into the programs represented today. Indeed, one of my col-
                                                                    leagues on this panel suggests there is little need for our program
                                                                    thanks to other actors like philanthropy and State governments,
                                                                    which is helpful albeit inconsistent.
                                                                       So why should the government be involved in supporting busi-
                                                                    ness creation and growth? Well, simply put, it is the greatest eco-
                                                                    nomic imperative our country has. It is why entrepreneurship, com-
                                                                    merce, and intellectual property are cemented in the U.S. Constitu-
                                                                    tion. Now, in this defining moment of crisis and resilience, we
                                                                    should be doubling down on our investment, not shortchanging it.
                                                                       The critical support of Women’s Business Centers in the CARES
                                                                    Act, for which we are grateful to this Committee, was a perfect ex-
                                                                    periment. With additional funding, Women’s Business Centers’ im-
                                                                    pact skyrocketed across every metric, including a 36 percent in-
                                                                    crease in the number of clients served, despite the challenges that
                                                                    were presented to them in remote work. But beyond the macro-
                                                                    economic imperative, entrepreneurship is one of the most effective
                                                                    ways to close the wealth gap and produce longstanding
                                                                    generational wealth among women, minority groups, and veterans.
                                                                    So this dual benefit of the program far outweighs the relatively
                                                                    small investment in the context of the Federal budget.
                                                                       We must not overlook the importance of consistency that our pro-
                                                                    gram provides as a reliable source of counseling and support, no
                                                                    matter the circumstances. To best serve their communities, Wom-
                                                                    en’s Business Centers’ doors must remain open in the good times
                                                                    along with the bad.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00052   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     49

                                                                      But that is not to say that programs should be etched in stone.
                                                                    Indeed, we are pleading for this Committee to modernize it. In the
                                                                    last Congress, legislation that would have better prepared Women’s
                                                                    Business Centers for COVID–19 passed the House, but it stalled in
                                                                    the Senate.
                                                                      We hope this Committee and its counterpart across the Capitol
                                                                    can address statutory anachronisms and flaws and bring our pro-
                                                                    gram literally into the 21st century. I urge this Committee to con-
                                                                    sider introduction of complementary legislation to the bipartisan
                                                                    bill recently introduced in the House of Representatives, H.R. 6441,
                                                                    the Women’s Business Centers Improvement Act of 2022, which ad-
                                                                    dresses longstanding requests of Women’s Business Centers, of this
                                                                    Committee, and of SBA. It increases the grant cap and indexes it
                                                                    to inflation and, finally, reauthorizes the program for fiscal years
                                                                    2022 through 2025.
                                                                      The bill addresses several deficiencies cited in OIG reports by
                                                                    strengthening coordination between AWBC and SBA and, most
                                                                    critically, creating an accreditation program to ensure uniform
                                                                    standards across the program. Notably, this is something our peer
                                                                    resource partner has; yet, it continues to be a disparity for women
                                                                    entrepreneurs.
                                                                      Women’s Business Centers not only survived the last two years
                                                                    but brought forward more than 170,000 women entrepreneurs and
                                                                    helped them leverage well over three-quarters of a billion dollars
                                                                    in capital, a significant contribution to the small business eco-
                                                                    system and the American economy. We are proud of our achieve-
                                                                    ments, and we urge Congress and this administration to continue
                                                                    to entrust us with this vital work. We stand ready to work with
                                                                    this Committee and pass much needed legislation to modernize the
                                                                    program.
                                                                      Thank you so much for this opportunity to testify, and I am
                                                                    happy to answer questions.
                                                                      [The prepared statement of Ms. Hodges follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00053   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     50




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 024 here 47360.024


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00054   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     51




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 025 here 47360.025


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00055   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     52




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 026 here 47360.026


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00056   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     53




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 027 here 47360.027


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00057   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     54




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 028 here 47360.028


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00058   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     55




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 029 here 47360.029


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00059   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     56




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 030 here 47360.030


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00060   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     57




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 031 here 47360.031


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00061   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     58




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 032 here 47360.032


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00062   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     59

                                                                          Chairman CARDIN. Thank you for your testimony.
                                                                          We will now go to Chris Edwards.
                                                                      STATEMENT OF CHRIS EDWARDS, DIRECTOR OF TAX POLICY
                                                                            STUDIES, CATO INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, DC
                                                                       Mr. EDWARDS. Thank you very much, Chairman Cardin and
                                                                    Ranking Member Paul.
                                                                       The Chairman is right that entrepreneurship is a bright spot in
                                                                    the economy. Since the summer of 2020, the number of U.S. busi-
                                                                    ness startups has soared. However, I am worried that rising infla-
                                                                    tion, possible tax and regulatory increases, could undermine this
                                                                    startup boom.
                                                                       Startups are crucial to the economy. They add competition. They
                                                                    drive innovation. And we are all agreed on that.
                                                                       I am skeptical that governments need to fund entrepreneurial
                                                                    development, however. Many private institutions, as Michael was
                                                                    talking about, fill similar functions as SBA’s entrepreneur pro-
                                                                    grams. For example, America has 335,000 angel investors, who are
                                                                    wealthy people that invest in startup businesses. Angels are in
                                                                    every city and town in the Nation, and they provide advice and
                                                                    guidance to entrepreneurs. So government can spur entrepreneur-
                                                                    ship with policies favorable to angel investment, and as I have
                                                                    written, low capital gains taxes are crucial to angel investors.
                                                                       Many private foundations fund entrepreneurship programs. The
                                                                    Kauffman Foundation spends $100 million a year on training for
                                                                    entrepreneurs. I noticed recently that the PNC Foundation, the
                                                                    banking company, recently gave $16 million to create the National
                                                                    Center for Entrepreneurship at Howard University, supporting
                                                                    Black entrepreneurship. The Blackstone Charitable Foundation,
                                                                    the Coleman Foundation, and many others spend millions of dol-
                                                                    lars a year on entrepreneurship programs focusing on disadvan-
                                                                    taged communities. The National Foundation for Teaching Entre-
                                                                    preneurship says that it reaches 100,000 students a year. Entrepre-
                                                                    neurship degrees and certificates are offered at over 500 colleges
                                                                    today. And as Michael touched on, there is a huge array of free en-
                                                                    trepreneurship courses online and on YouTube. So these growing
                                                                    efforts for entrepreneurial development cast doubt on the need for
                                                                    Federal involvement, I think.
                                                                       Let me switch over to regulations for a few minutes. Efforts to
                                                                    boost entrepreneurship, either by SBA or by the private sector, are
                                                                    undermined by barriers to startup. Economists generally agree that
                                                                    the regulatory barrier on small businesses is much larger relatively
                                                                    than on large businesses. Regular surveys of small business by
                                                                    CNBC, the NFIB, and others find that regulation is a major con-
                                                                    cern of small businesses although recently inflation has risen to the
                                                                    top concern of small businesses.
                                                                       I recently conducted a study on State and local regulations on
                                                                    startups, and I will give you a few examples of how regulations
                                                                    really undermine—can really undermine startups at the State and
                                                                    local levels.
                                                                       Occupational licensing. Most of us are aware of this issue. The
                                                                    share of U.S. jobs requiring an occupational license has risen from
                                                                    just 5 percent a few decades ago to over 20 percent today. Licenses
                                                                    cost time and money that young people with modest incomes may




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00063   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     60

                                                                    not be able to afford. So occupational licensing restrictions are re-
                                                                    strictions on startup businesses.
                                                                       Alcohol licensing. This is a really surprisingly big issue. Alcohol
                                                                    licensing is a big hurdle to restaurants startups. In my study, I
                                                                    found 18 states that strictly cap the number of liquor licenses in
                                                                    towns and cities. The caps can make restaurant startups very cost-
                                                                    ly or block them entirely. In these 18 states, entrepreneurs may
                                                                    have to pay literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a liq-
                                                                    uor license. Those high costs favor corporate restaurant chains over
                                                                    independent and moderate-income entrepreneurs. Cities with tight
                                                                    alcohol license caps can strangle economic development, particu-
                                                                    larly in poorer neighborhoods because in those neighborhoods the
                                                                    entrepreneurs cannot afford these expensive licenses. This is a big
                                                                    problem in New Jersey; it is a big problem in Massachusetts.
                                                                       There is, interestingly, a similar problem in some of the states
                                                                    that have legalized marijuana. California has tightly restricted its
                                                                    marijuana licenses. So if you do not have a lot of money or inside
                                                                    political connections, it is very hard to get a legal license for mari-
                                                                    juana in California.
                                                                       Home-based businesses are another issue. Millions of Americans
                                                                    run businesses out of their homes: daycare providers, small-scale
                                                                    food producers, artists, yoga teachers, many, many others. But
                                                                    local governments impose zoning rules that ban, restrict, or raise
                                                                    costs for home businesses. This is a particular problem for lower-
                                                                    income entrepreneurs because for them home businesses allow
                                                                    them to run a business and saving the cost from commuting, from
                                                                    rental commercial space, from getting childcare, and that sort of
                                                                    thing. So reforming local zoning laws to allow more home-based
                                                                    businesses would be a way to expand entrepreneurship.
                                                                       Finally, the connection between deregulation and entrepreneur-
                                                                    ship can be seen with the huge success of the craft beer industry
                                                                    in recent decades. And I note one of the members of your panel
                                                                    here, Senator Hickenlooper, of course, is a pioneer in the craft brew
                                                                    industry. President Jimmy Carter signed legislation in 1978 legal-
                                                                    izing home brewing. That was followed by many states deregu-
                                                                    lating the rules for brew pubs and allowing small, independent
                                                                    brewers to self-distribute to retailers. The number of breweries in
                                                                    America exploded from 100 in 1980 to more than 8,000 today. So,
                                                                    from nothing, the craft beer industry is now a $22 billion industry,
                                                                    thriving with entrepreneurship, and so that was a pro-entre-
                                                                    preneur, deregulatory success.
                                                                       Thank you very much.
                                                                       [The prepared statement of Mr. Edwards follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00064   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     61




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 033 here 47360.033


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00065   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     62




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 034 here 47360.034


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00066   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     63




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 035 here 47360.035


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00067   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     64




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 036 here 47360.036


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00068   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     65




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 037 here 47360.037


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00069   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     66




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 038 here 47360.038


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00070   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     67




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 039 here 47360.039


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00071   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     68




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 040 here 47360.040


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00072   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     69




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 041 here 47360.041


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00073   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     70




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 042 here 47360.042


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00074   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     71

                                                                          Chairman CARDIN. Thank you for your testimony.
                                                                          We will now go to Bridget Weston.
                                                                                        STATEMENT OF BRIDGET WESTON, CEO,
                                                                                              SCORE, HERNDON, VA
                                                                       Ms. WESTON. Chairman Cardin, Ranking Member Paul, and
                                                                    members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to offer
                                                                    testimony on SCORE’s impact, including our response to the
                                                                    COVID pandemic and the funding challenges we currently face in
                                                                    effectively serving American small businesses.
                                                                       SCORE is the Nation’s largest network of volunteer expert busi-
                                                                    ness mentors of which 100 percent are required to take our men-
                                                                    toring methodology course and annual code of ethics training.
                                                                    These 10,000 volunteers are offering free and confidential advice as
                                                                    well as educational workshops to current and aspiring small busi-
                                                                    ness owners. Founded in 1964 as a resource partner of the SBA,
                                                                    SCORE has now helped more than 11 million entrepreneurs start,
                                                                    grow, or troubleshoot their businesses.
                                                                       When the pandemic began in 2020, many more business owners
                                                                    reached out for SCORE’s help than ever before as evidenced by a
                                                                    30 percent increase in our services. We quickly pivoted to deliv-
                                                                    ering 100 percent virtual mentoring and education without missing
                                                                    a day of service. And during this time, SCORE sought much-need-
                                                                    ed additional funding from the CARES Act to support our efforts.
                                                                    However, we did not receive any additional dollars.
                                                                       We were not deterred. SCORE saw a critical need to help busi-
                                                                    ness owners navigate the challenges they are facing with the pan-
                                                                    demic. So we worked to launch the Small Business Resilience Hub.
                                                                    Two months after the pandemic hit, SCORE’s Small Business Re-
                                                                    silience Hub was available to help business owners navigate Fed-
                                                                    eral and local government programs, adapt to change, launch new
                                                                    businesses, and attract and retain clients, all using SCORE’s exist-
                                                                    ing resources and mentors. To date, this hub has had nearly
                                                                    900,000 visitors, and this is in addition to our website
                                                                    www.score.org, which reaches over 4 million people annually.
                                                                       Now many business owners told us they would not have applied
                                                                    for PPP or EIDL without a SCORE mentor to walk them through
                                                                    the process step by step. In fact in fiscal year 2020, the first year
                                                                    of the pandemic, SCORE delivered over 840,000 mentoring or edu-
                                                                    cational services. It is through these efforts that SCORE helped our
                                                                    clients to stay in business; 82 percent of our in business clients
                                                                    stayed open and added nearly 75,000 jobs. And we helped another
                                                                    45,000 businesses start.
                                                                       It was through our work with these business owners that
                                                                    SCORE saw firsthand how the pandemic significantly and nega-
                                                                    tively impacted small businesses, and the date SCORE collected
                                                                    shows that some businesses, such as Black- and Hispanic-owned,
                                                                    have been more negatively impacted than others. Because SCORE
                                                                    serves a diverse range of small business owners, with 60 percent
                                                                    of our clients being women and 46 percent minority, we knew
                                                                    SCORE was uniquely positioned to ramp up efforts to help those
                                                                    business owners most impacted. One of SCORE’s key areas of focus
                                                                    continues to be fostering diversity, equity, and inclusion both for
                                                                    clients and for volunteers. Expanding our volunteer corps to reflect




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00075   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     72

                                                                    the communities we serve has resulted in 40 percent of our volun-
                                                                    teers being women or minorities. With the support of SCORE, our
                                                                    volunteer strategic partnerships, both nationally and locally, we
                                                                    launched our SCORE for All Initiative to help disadvantaged busi-
                                                                    ness owners address their specific needs.
                                                                       SCORE was hopeful that the Community Navigator grant would
                                                                    help to amplify these successful programs. However, SCORE was
                                                                    not awarded a Community Navigator grant. Nevertheless, we know
                                                                    we must continue these efforts. SCORE has reached out to those
                                                                    who did receive Community Navigator awards and offered to sup-
                                                                    port in any way. We have already signed an MOU with the U.S.
                                                                    Hispanic Chamber of Commerce to be a part of their program.
                                                                       SCORE did all of this without any additional funding. Further
                                                                    complicating SCORE’s situation, SCORE has experienced problems
                                                                    with the SBA’s EDMIS system, culminating in recent EDMIS out-
                                                                    puts that have dramatically underestimated SCORE’s impact. The
                                                                    EDMIS reports do not reflect the SCORE data being entered into
                                                                    the system, which is different from SCORE’s salesforce-based sys-
                                                                    tem and our annual survey of client impact and engagement.
                                                                       SCORE has also been operating without any Federal funding for
                                                                    4 months as we are still waiting on our notice of award. We con-
                                                                    tinue to work closely with the SBA to resolve these issues but feel
                                                                    it is important to note these challenges limiting our ability to more
                                                                    fully deliver our mission.
                                                                       SCORE is proud of our ability to serve over 300,000 people each
                                                                    year, but these efforts are simply not sustainable at our current
                                                                    funding levels. It is why we continue to respectfully request an in-
                                                                    crease of $9.5 million in funding for a total appropriation of $21.7
                                                                    million. With this investment, we can provide even greater value
                                                                    to business owners and the economy. This increased funding would
                                                                    allow us deliver more than half a million additional client services
                                                                    with a projected outcome of 100 additional new businesses started
                                                                    or jobs created. SCORE volunteers and the small business centers
                                                                    they serve need to see a commitment to, and an investment made
                                                                    in, them so we can sustain SCORE’s efforts and help even more
                                                                    businesses survive and thrive.
                                                                       Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your questions.
                                                                       [The prepared statement of Ms. Weston follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00076   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     73




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 043 here 47360.043


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00077   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     74




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 044 here 47360.044


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00078   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     75




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 045 here 47360.045


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00079   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     76




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 046 here 47360.046


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00080   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     77




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 047 here 47360.047


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00081   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     78




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 048 here 47360.048


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00082   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     79




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 049 here 47360.049


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00083   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     80




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 050 here 47360.050


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00084   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     81




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 051 here 47360.051


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00085   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     82




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 052 here 47360.052


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00086   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     83




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 053 here 47360.053


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00087   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     84




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 054 here 47360.054


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00088   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     85

                                                                          Chairman CARDIN. Thank you for your testimony.
                                                                          Ms. Hannah Cox.

                                                                    STATEMENT OF HANNAH COX, BRAND AMBASSADOR, FOUNDA-
                                                                     TION FOR ECONOMIC EDUCATION, AND CO-FOUNDER AND
                                                                     HOST, BASEDPOLITICS, ATLANTA, GA
                                                                       Ms. COX. Thank you, Chairman Cardin, Ranking Member Sen-
                                                                    ator Paul, and members of the Committee.
                                                                       When I was born on December 30th of 1987, it was not yet legal
                                                                    for me as a woman to secure a business loan without a male co-
                                                                    signer in most states. That was merely 34 years ago. In 1963, when
                                                                    my mother was born, she could not yet obtain a credit card without
                                                                    a man. Women have faced unique challenges in this country, but
                                                                    they are challenges that we face because our government first
                                                                    upheld a system that treated us as second-class citizens under the
                                                                    law for centuries and erected financial barriers we have had to tear
                                                                    down. Due to this, we have some catching up to do in the business
                                                                    world.
                                                                       But since receiving equal financial footing, the number of
                                                                    women-owned businesses increased by 31 times, rising from
                                                                    402,000 businesses in 1972 to 12.3 million business, or 40 percent
                                                                    of all firms, by 2018.
                                                                       Today, women face the same struggles when it comes to entre-
                                                                    preneurship as men, struggles that, it must be pointed out, con-
                                                                    tinue to be created by our government and its meddling in the mar-
                                                                    ket. True feminism means the advocacy of women’s rights on the
                                                                    basis of the equality of the sexes. So I am here to advocate for men
                                                                    in business every bit as much as I am to advocate for women be-
                                                                    cause what the government is currently doing hurts all of us.
                                                                       What entrepreneurs need to be successful is not a government
                                                                    handout. What we need is for the government to get out of our
                                                                    way. Entrepreneurs are being choked to death by the Federal Gov-
                                                                    ernment’s expansive regulatory apparatus. Between 1995 and 2017
                                                                    alone, there were 88,899 rules and regulations implemented. Gov-
                                                                    ernment agencies and unelected bureaucrats have run amok and
                                                                    are throttling our economy while Congress fails to rein them in.
                                                                       As a result, business owners are forced to spend the bulk of their
                                                                    time jumping through legal hoops and wasting their profits on com-
                                                                    pliance. This is despite laws like the Small Business Regulatory
                                                                    Enforcement Fairness Act, which is supposed to ensure Federal
                                                                    agencies help small businesses comply with statutes and regula-
                                                                    tions. This has largely not happened, and American entrepreneurs
                                                                    receive little relief when it comes to maneuvering this framework.
                                                                       The Federal Government also makes it increasingly difficult to
                                                                    succeed in business as it renders our currency void through reck-
                                                                    less spending policies that drive the printing of new dollars and as
                                                                    it excessively taxes us at every turn. We are being pillaged by your
                                                                    policies.
                                                                       This includes the $4.9 trillion in new spending under the CARES
                                                                    Act, which led to rampant inflation. Prices have risen 7 percent,
                                                                    representing the largest increase in a 12-year period in the last 4
                                                                    decades. For entrepreneurs, that is a tremendous hidden tax. It is
                                                                    money they no longer have to hire, expand, or save. And it also




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00089   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     86

                                                                    means consumers have less money to spend. You have stacked the
                                                                    deck against us.
                                                                       Not only that, but the Federal Government continues to pick
                                                                    winners and losers, giving our tax dollars to big business competi-
                                                                    tors and rigging the playing field against entrepreneurs. You do
                                                                    this through subsidies, selective tax breaks, regulations, and pro-
                                                                    grams that prioritize some business owners over others. As one ex-
                                                                    ample, the Restaurant Revitalization Fund administered by the
                                                                    SBA prioritized awarding funds to small businesses owned by
                                                                    women, veterans, or disadvantaged individuals despite the fact
                                                                    that unconstitutional government lockdowns harmed all res-
                                                                    taurants.
                                                                       This is only scratching the surface when it comes to the ways
                                                                    that the Federal Government serves as a barrier to entrepreneur-
                                                                    ship. The Federal Government purports to promote competition
                                                                    and entrepreneurship with its right hand while its left is the pri-
                                                                    mary source strangling the free market. The Federal Government
                                                                    is one of the last entities that should oversee entrepreneurship pro-
                                                                    grams. And we have seen no numbers, no proof of efficacy in their
                                                                    work to counter that point.
                                                                       In fact, the research we have shows the opposite. The Office of
                                                                    Inspector General evaluated the SBA’s handling of the CARES Act
                                                                    grant to train, counsel, and educate small businesses on Federal re-
                                                                    sources. Under this grant, partners were given $18.6 million to cre-
                                                                    ate an informational and training hub. Yet, the Office’s report
                                                                    found that less than 1 percent of the 30 million small businesses
                                                                    this was intended for used the portal and only 62 of approximately
                                                                    14,000 resource partner counselors and mentors completed any of
                                                                    the training modules. That is a tremendous amount of our tax dol-
                                                                    lars being wasted, tax dollars that entrepreneurs could do a lot
                                                                    more with if they were left in our pockets.
                                                                       The SBA recently announced it intends to elevate the Office of
                                                                    Women’s Business Ownership, and in a statement on the reorga-
                                                                    nization staff claimed this was indicative of the Biden Harris ad-
                                                                    ministration prioritizing recovery for small businesses and address-
                                                                    ing longstanding inequities for women entrepreneurs. I find this of-
                                                                    fensive. You cannot claim that the Federal Government cares about
                                                                    female entrepreneurs after it worked to shut down our businesses,
                                                                    close schools, leaving women in the workforce scrambling for
                                                                    childcare, and mandated vaccines and COVID policies that have
                                                                    cost billions of dollars.
                                                                       The same is true as it always was. The government is the main
                                                                    roadblock to our success. The only role the Federal Government
                                                                    has to play in entrepreneurship is in removing the onerous burdens
                                                                    it has placed on the backs of every hardworking American. Women
                                                                    need the government to quit fantasizing itself our knight in shining
                                                                    armor when in reality it is more akin to a wicked stepmother lock-
                                                                    ing us away from opportunities. We need the government to re-
                                                                    move itself from the market so that we can actually take up space
                                                                    and use the dollars currently being wasted for innovation and
                                                                    growth.
                                                                       Thank you.
                                                                       [The prepared statement of Ms. Cox follows:]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00090   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     87




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 055 here 47360.055


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00091   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     88




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 056 here 47360.056


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00092   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     89

                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Let me thank all six of our witnesses for their
                                                                    patience and their testimony.
                                                                       With Senator Paul’s consent, I am going to go to Senator Inhofe
                                                                    first, who has a conflict on time.
                                                                       Senator INHOFE. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I
                                                                    appreciate that. It was very important for me to get over and ask
                                                                    a couple questions. Ironically, I got here just in time to hear Ms.
                                                                    Cox. I am not sure I need to do that now.
                                                                       However, I just want to make sure to emphasize the problems
                                                                    that we are having in my State of Oklahoma and other states are
                                                                    having the same types of problems. We talk about inflation up to
                                                                    7 percent, the highest it has been in 40 years, the small businesses
                                                                    that are having the effect of this. Is there anything that you can
                                                                    add?
                                                                       I actually have two questions I wanted to ask you. How would
                                                                    the radical spending plans only serve to hurt the small businesses
                                                                    and hinder entrepreneurship?
                                                                       Ms. COX. Thank you, Senator. It is important to remember that
                                                                    every dollar spent by the government is dollars that entrepreneurs
                                                                    do not get to keep in their pockets, that they could actually invest
                                                                    into their own companies, hire more people with, save. And so we
                                                                    continue to see this hurt small business across the country. They
                                                                    are demanding relief. I talk to small businesses and entrepreneurs
                                                                    across this country, and one of the main things they say they need
                                                                    are tax cuts or, at the very least, a simplification of the tax codes
                                                                    that they do not have to spend so much time jumping through
                                                                    hoops to meet compliance from the government.
                                                                       So I would suggest that the government look into those two
                                                                    items first and foremost. Secondarily, I suggest they quit spending
                                                                    money recklessly and give it back to the actual entrepreneurs who
                                                                    know, on the ground, how to invest the dollars better than the Fed-
                                                                    eral Government could from so far away.
                                                                       Senator INHOFE. And I think that pretty much addresses the sec-
                                                                    ond question I would ask on how can this administration advocate
                                                                    for policies that actually help benefit the playing field and ensure
                                                                    all entrepreneurs have a fair shot.
                                                                       Ms. COX. Yes, I would love to see an actual review of all the reg-
                                                                    ulations currently in play in various industries. I think it depends
                                                                    on which industry we are looking at, but if you examine any given
                                                                    one at a certain moment you are bound to find a number of ways
                                                                    the Federal Government is preventing entrepreneurship and hurt-
                                                                    ing small businesses.
                                                                       I will use one bill that comes to mind within the agriculture in-
                                                                    dustry right now. The PRIME Act is seeking to make it to where
                                                                    small farmers can merely just sell their meat without having to
                                                                    jump through the hoops the Federal Government has laid out for
                                                                    them to process their cows. That is a ridiculous burden on them
                                                                    that actually makes them lose money and have to kill their cows
                                                                    and waste product.
                                                                       That kind of thing can be found in virtually every industry in our
                                                                    economy, where the Federal Government has come in and put in
                                                                    silly requirements that people have to jump through merely just to
                                                                    do their job. So I would love to see the Biden administration actu-
                                                                    ally go through and figure out what those regulations are and start




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00093   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     90

                                                                    to remove some of these things so that people can just get back to
                                                                    work.
                                                                       Senator INHOFE. That is particularly a great statement to make
                                                                    from my State of Oklahoma because that is a problem I have heard
                                                                    from other people and it is serious. So I think we understand that
                                                                    these are serious problems that small states, ag states, are having
                                                                    problems with, and that is what this is all about. We have these
                                                                    people here. You have your own problems. And I appreciate those
                                                                    comments very much.
                                                                       And that is primarily the message I wanted to add, Mr. Chair-
                                                                    man. And both of you, I appreciate you. Thank you.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Inhofe.
                                                                       Let me again thank our witnesses. There is, you know, clearly
                                                                    different views. There is different views on this Committee, but
                                                                    what I like about this Small Business Committee is historically we
                                                                    have worked together in a bipartisan way in order to carry out our
                                                                    role in the United States Senate on behalf of small businesses.
                                                                       So during the pandemic, we got together, Democrats and Repub-
                                                                    licans, and we passed through this Committee and through over-
                                                                    whelming majorities on the floor of the Senate and House relief for
                                                                    small businesses that was unprecedented. And as I have traveled
                                                                    through the State of Maryland and I have traveled through this
                                                                    country—and I have heard the same thing from my Republican col-
                                                                    leagues—business after business said they would not be open today
                                                                    but for the help that was provided by Congress as a result of the
                                                                    COVID relief packages that we passed.
                                                                       So I just point that out, that we have this tradition of listening
                                                                    to each other. We have different views, and we respect each other’s
                                                                    views, and we try to come out with policies that are consensus poli-
                                                                    cies that represent the best interests for the small business com-
                                                                    munity.
                                                                       And I do think that we are getting to a consensus here among
                                                                    at least the witnesses that are before us today that Congress needs
                                                                    to speak in regards to the entrepreneurship programs. After all,
                                                                    the Small Business Development Center program was authorized
                                                                    in 1980 and has not been comprehensively reviewed by legislation
                                                                    since that time. The Women’s Business Centers was last reauthor-
                                                                    ized in 2005. The SCORE program goes back to 1997.
                                                                       So we should carry out our responsibility. It is one thing to say
                                                                    you do not have the resources you need, et cetera, or you think
                                                                    there is misuse of resources. If Congress has not acted—we are the
                                                                    policy arm. We have that responsibility. So I would suggest first
                                                                    that we really do have responsibility as a committee and as a Sen-
                                                                    ate to review these statutes and try to update them and feel what
                                                                    is best, listening to both Democrats and Republicans, and see
                                                                    whether we cannot come to what we think the current policy
                                                                    should be in regards to these resource partners.
                                                                       Now the question I am going to ask deals with a view that I have
                                                                    that may differ from Senator Paul and other members of this Com-
                                                                    mittee. I look at the commercial banks and their record of pro-
                                                                    viding assistance in disadvantaged communities, and it is not a
                                                                    good record. And we all agree that we want to use the talent in
                                                                    every community and the energy in every community to build not
                                                                    only personal wealth and accomplishment but also economic




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00094   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     91

                                                                    strength for our whole country. So it was for good reason that we
                                                                    established access to capital programs for disadvantaged commu-
                                                                    nities or for smaller businesses because the private sector was not
                                                                    providing that opportunity.
                                                                       So we developed the 7(a) program and the 504 program, the larg-
                                                                    est programs of access to capital through the SBA, but when you
                                                                    look at the record—and when I first came to the Senate in 2007
                                                                    I got the numbers in Maryland, and I was appalled because the
                                                                    number of 7(a) loans made in disadvantaged communities was so
                                                                    small compared to the demographics of small businesses located in
                                                                    disadvantaged communities. I knew we could do better.
                                                                       Now, yes, we did develop other programs such as the Community
                                                                    Advantage 7(a) program and the microloan programs, and they
                                                                    work much better; they do. There is much better participation in
                                                                    all communities in those programs. But I mention that because we
                                                                    want to provide opportunities to all communities.
                                                                       So as I look at our resource partners, I want to know what you
                                                                    are doing because you are the services that we are providing par-
                                                                    ticularly to the vulnerable small businesses. So tell me how your
                                                                    program is providing opportunities to small businesses who other-
                                                                    wise may not be given an opportunity to survive, how you are able
                                                                    to do that under an existing program, and if you need additional
                                                                    help, please let me know. Why don’t I start with Mr. Rowe in re-
                                                                    gards to the SBDCs?
                                                                       Mr. ROWE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I said in my testimony,
                                                                    we work with the Urban League and the Black and Hispanic
                                                                    Chambers. And I will tell you that, honestly, if we look at 7(a) and
                                                                    504 they came about not just because we were not—the banking
                                                                    community was not fulfilling its, you know, duty to the disadvan-
                                                                    taged communities. But they were also being hampered by things
                                                                    like the Basel policies, the Basel regulations, international banking
                                                                    regulations, and reserve requirements that, frankly, sit harder on
                                                                    community banks than they might on a big regional bank.
                                                                       And we are working now—and I will just throw this out because
                                                                    I agree with Ms. Cox. Today in D.C., our SBDC is holding—helping
                                                                    small businesses do their taxes today. And it is kind of sad that
                                                                    the tax system is so complicated that we have to help people pay
                                                                    their taxes. You know, you have got a situation where a small busi-
                                                                    ness owner who may have 1099 employees has to deal with 20 dif-
                                                                    ferent 1099s, and so then they have to fill out a 1096. And if they
                                                                    fill out that 1096, they cannot download that off of IRS’s website
                                                                    because if you try and download the form off their website it does
                                                                    not scan properly. So if you send it in to the IRS, you get penalized.
                                                                       So when we are—we are in the same boat when we are working
                                                                    with the disadvantaged communities, whether it is in the District
                                                                    or, you know, any community, in a rural community. Helping peo-
                                                                    ple speak ‘‘banker’’ sometimes is most of what we do, helping peo-
                                                                    ple understand what they have got to go through just to get a loan.
                                                                    You know.
                                                                       And we keep trying. We will keep pushing out with the Urban
                                                                    League, like I said, and through the HBCUs, through the Commu-
                                                                    nity Navigator Program, whether it is as a hub or a spoke, just be-
                                                                    cause we are trying to help everyone. But if I was going to say we
                                                                    were living in an uncomplicated world, I would be a flat-out liar.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00095   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     92

                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Ms. Hodges, how is the Women’s Business
                                                                    Center carrying out its mission to help underserved, disadvantaged
                                                                    businesses located in disadvantaged communities?
                                                                       Ms. HODGES. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, Women’s Business Cen-
                                                                    ters are inclusive. They are open for all, but we do reached the un-
                                                                    derserved. Of the individuals Women’s Business Centers served in
                                                                    2020, 70 percent were women; 56 percent of those that reported de-
                                                                    mographic data were people of color; and of those in 2020 who
                                                                    identified as people of color, 51 percent were African American, 33
                                                                    percent were Latinx, 10 percent were Asian, 2.7 percent were Na-
                                                                    tive American-Alaskan Native, 1.2 percent were Native Hawaiian.
                                                                    You get the idea here.
                                                                       So the Women’s Business Center Program continues to expand
                                                                    its reach. We have even added 24 new Women’s Business Centers
                                                                    just since March 2021. Now three of those were on campuses with
                                                                    Historically Black Colleges and Universities, one of those in your
                                                                    State of Maryland.
                                                                       We have some Women’s Business Centers who collect more ro-
                                                                    bust data, and those Women’s Business Centers are tracking that
                                                                    more than 90 percent of individuals served are represented by cat-
                                                                    egories of underrepresented or underserved, meaning women, mi-
                                                                    norities, or low-income households.
                                                                       And I would like to share an anecdote as well, if I could, which
                                                                    is that in the State of Kentucky, in Georgetown, an African Amer-
                                                                    ican, woman-owned business just in 2012 opened her business and
                                                                    explained to me in November she struggled to secure a $5,000
                                                                    startup loan without the signature of her husband and if not for
                                                                    the Women’s Business Center of Kentucky’s Lexington office she
                                                                    would not be in business today. She has since survived the COVID
                                                                    pandemic, has given birth to twins, and is on the top 10 bakery list
                                                                    with a business employing 12 employees.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                       Ms. Weston, on SCORE?
                                                                       Ms. WESTON. Thank you for the question. SCORE has always
                                                                    placed a high value on helping underserved business owners; 60
                                                                    percent of our clients are women, 46 percent minority, 11 percent
                                                                    veterans.
                                                                       We have formed strategic partnerships at the national and local
                                                                    levels to help reach and inform these underserved business owners
                                                                    of the resources available: U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce,
                                                                    the Latino Coalition, U.S. Black Chambers, BIPOC Support Foun-
                                                                    dation. And our 240 chapters, with 10,000 volunteers across the
                                                                    country, have formed partnerships at the local level with banks
                                                                    and credit unions, economic development centers, colleges and uni-
                                                                    versities, all with the intent of reaching these business owners and
                                                                    aspiring entrepreneurs who can benefit from the resources and
                                                                    guidance that SCORE provides.
                                                                       We were told and saw firsthand during the pandemic the prob-
                                                                    lems and the impact that this pandemic has had on all small busi-
                                                                    ness owners but some more negatively than others. We saw that
                                                                    Black and Hispanic business owners applied for more—for loans
                                                                    more often but received less.
                                                                       So what SCORE is doing is building and expanding our SCORE
                                                                    for All initiative, which brings unique content that speaks to their




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00096   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     93

                                                                    specific needs—financial literacy, broadband, whatever it is de-
                                                                    pending on that specific market—to help them increase their
                                                                    chances of success. We heard that these programs can be confusing
                                                                    and overwhelming and that they would not have applied for them
                                                                    without a SCORE mentor guiding them along the way. And we
                                                                    hope to be able to expand this program and continue to make, you
                                                                    know, more of an effort for these underserved communities, hope-
                                                                    fully with more funding from Congress.
                                                                      Chairman CARDIN. And just concluding, Mr. Edwards, I want to
                                                                    agree with you in regards to the regulatory burdens that can pre-
                                                                    vent smaller entrepreneurs from entering a field. We need to look
                                                                    at that.
                                                                      And you gave the craft brewing industry as a good example, and
                                                                    I agree with you completely, and I am proud of legislation I have
                                                                    authored to make it easier for craft brewers to be able to survive.
                                                                    And I cannot match Senator Hickenlooper for owning a brewery,
                                                                    but I will match any member of Congress for the number of craft
                                                                    brewers I have been to and enjoyed. It is my normal Friday after-
                                                                    noon visit to a Maryland business was always going to be a craft
                                                                    brewery or a winery on a Friday afternoon.
                                                                      So I thank you for that point because I do think the regulatory
                                                                    environment, the tax environment, is a very important point for en-
                                                                    couraging small business entrepreneurs, and I thank you for that.
                                                                      Mr. EDWARDS. Can I add a comment on that? I talked about
                                                                    some areas where regulation, I do think, has a disproportionate
                                                                    negative impact on lower-income and disadvantaged communities:
                                                                    the alcohol licensing and marijuana licensing, the occupational li-
                                                                    censing, the home-based businesses.
                                                                      I think the SBA could serve a really positive role here. It has an
                                                                    Office of Advocacy, the SBA—I assume that you have oversight
                                                                    over it—that, you know, their role is to examine other government
                                                                    rules and regulations and to find out what is too onerous. And in
                                                                    fact, I mean for example, I discussed home based businesses. They
                                                                    did a fantastic report a decade or so ago about home-based busi-
                                                                    nesses and some of the burdens that they face from local govern-
                                                                    ment zoning. So I think that reinvigorating that office would be a
                                                                    great way, you know, to shine a light on some of these regulations
                                                                    that disproportionately hurt some communities.
                                                                      Chairman CARDIN. Good suggestion. There is no question that
                                                                    particularly those with less capital have very little opportunity to
                                                                    contest a lot of these issues or compete for licenses. I think your
                                                                    point is well taken.
                                                                      Senator Paul?
                                                                      Senator PAUL. I think Mr. Edwards makes a good point. You
                                                                    know, one of the examples they often use is for hair-braiding. They
                                                                    are often immigrants to our country, many from Africa or Jamaica.
                                                                    And States put them out of business with $1,500 licensure, and you
                                                                    got to go two years to learn how to braid hair. And it is like, really,
                                                                    you think the customer cannot decide whether you can braid hair
                                                                    well or not? But that runs throughout our economy, and a lot of
                                                                    those are State laws.
                                                                      But there have been some good groups. Institute for Justice has
                                                                    fought a lot of these cases over time and has won quite a few of
                                                                    them.




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00097   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     94

                                                                       But absolutely, regulations. When you think about it, the richer
                                                                    I am the more I can evade a regulation. In fact, people talk about
                                                                    it as rent-seeking. So the big corporations love regulation often.
                                                                    They come to us. They do not want the craft brewers. So the big
                                                                    people come to us. They are all for regulating the small guy at a
                                                                    business. But I think too often we do not look at how regulations—
                                                                    removing them would actually disproportionately help lower-wage
                                                                    and people who have historically had more trouble getting loans.
                                                                       Mr. Hendrix, on the—often capitalism is sort of described as cre-
                                                                    ative destruction, that to get a loan, to stay in business, you know,
                                                                    only the best survive. I mean, it really is this strong sort of you
                                                                    have to make a profit.
                                                                       And there is a definite difference between sort of a government
                                                                    extending a loan and a private entity extending a loan. And the
                                                                    private entity, if they keep making mistakes, will not have any
                                                                    more money to loan. The government seems to have an infinite
                                                                    amount. Can you describe that a little bit, the difference between
                                                                    private and public loans and how one may breed more excellence
                                                                    or better results?
                                                                       Mr. HENDRIX. The private sector is built around finding the right
                                                                    sort of businesses to invest in and finding the right partners to
                                                                    help grow the economy, to grow those businesses to serve cus-
                                                                    tomers. And banks, financial institutions, community institutions,
                                                                    they are best placed to do that.
                                                                       The government has certainly extended help to many businesses
                                                                    over the years, but their track of finding winners, good businesses,
                                                                    ones that will stay afloat is spotty at best. And they also do not
                                                                    have a clear mission of what sort of businesses they are supposed
                                                                    to serve. It is sort of all over the place. It is scattershot.
                                                                       So what we should be doing is helping the businesses that do
                                                                    exist, the banks that do exist, the community institutions that are
                                                                    built to serve their neighbors, helping them to do their job rather
                                                                    than competing with them when we know our track record is not
                                                                    good.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. Same question, Mr. Edwards, and any kind of dis-
                                                                    advantages to leaving this role to government as far as other busi-
                                                                    nesses that do not get funded.
                                                                       Mr. EDWARDS. One thing I am worried about, you know, with all
                                                                    of these issues is government crowd-out. When the government en-
                                                                    ters an area, they tend to push out, you know, private sector solu-
                                                                    tions. And I think with the SBA loan guarantees, you know, either
                                                                    they are just replacing stuff that the private sector generally would
                                                                    have done itself or they are extending loans probably to people that
                                                                    maybe should not get the loans. We saw that with the housing cri-
                                                                    sis over a decade ago.
                                                                       So as Michael said, you know, the private sector lenders want to
                                                                    lend. That is how they earn a return.
                                                                       And you know, I went into detail about—in my testimony, my
                                                                    written testimony, about angel investors. There is 300,000 of them
                                                                    out there in America, in every town and city. They are looking for
                                                                    young entrepreneurs to invest in, and they will invest, and they
                                                                    will hold their investment for 5 or 10 years, waiting patiently for
                                                                    returns. It is a very risky business. And so it is fantastic, you
                                                                    know, it seems to me, that a lot of wealthy people do this very




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00098   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     95

                                                                    high-risk investment, take these chances on unknown entre-
                                                                    preneurs.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. When there is a feedback loop, you get informa-
                                                                    tion and you make decisions based on the information. Are they
                                                                    profitable? Did I make a mistake here? Did I do a good investment
                                                                    or a bad investment? You give more to the good investments; you
                                                                    give less to the bad investments. That does not exist in govern-
                                                                    ment, and so that is sort of the problem.
                                                                       And government can do the wrong thing for decades. I mean, I
                                                                    remember William Proxmire talking about them spending $50,000
                                                                    on a study to see what makes people happy. That was 50 years
                                                                    ago. Congress just funded a study last year wanting to know if you
                                                                    take selfies and look at the selfie of yourself smiling if that makes
                                                                    you happy. We have been doing it for 70 years. The learning curve
                                                                    is really steep around here.
                                                                       Ms. Cox, I appreciate you putting forward some of the legal im-
                                                                    pediments that did exist for women at one time, and I think it is
                                                                    important to remember that both with gender and race there were
                                                                    legal impediments to people in business. I think, unfortunately, as
                                                                    we have removed those, people keep thinking something else has
                                                                    to be done, something else has to be done. But are you aware of
                                                                    a legal or systemic bias against women in business that currently
                                                                    exists?
                                                                       Ms. COX. No, I am not aware of any bias that currently exists.
                                                                    If there is any bias, it is in our favor. I continue to see women get
                                                                    elevated as if we need special favors from the government or we
                                                                    need help.
                                                                       Again, we do not need special favors. We do not need government
                                                                    to give us money. We need the same thing as male entrepreneurs.
                                                                    We need them to get out of our way so that we can compete and
                                                                    actually live in a meritocracy.
                                                                       I am a strong believer in capitalism, but we have a problem
                                                                    where a certain number of entrepreneurs, a certain number of busi-
                                                                    nesses are expected to actually compete in the market and then
                                                                    others get bailouts from the government, others get regulatory in-
                                                                    sulation from competitors and then some get special handouts like
                                                                    we see under these SBA grants. And I think that is offensive, and
                                                                    I think Americans are increasingly fed up with that system, where
                                                                    their tax dollars are taken from them and given to others. That is
                                                                    not a society that will stand for long.
                                                                       Senator PAUL. You know, I think if you talk to many women in
                                                                    corporate America or African Americans in corporate America, you
                                                                    actually find that even without government telling the businesses
                                                                    what to do businesses are actually very eager to advance African
                                                                    Americans who are in the business place, as well as women. And
                                                                    I think we get stuck in statistics, you know, of how many CEOs
                                                                    there are or this or that. But really, as far as impediments, I do
                                                                    not think there are legal impediments.
                                                                       And so I think if you wanted to make the loan program more effi-
                                                                    cient you just would not have women’s centers at all. Just judge
                                                                    people—we could have human business centers. You know. I mean,
                                                                    I do not think we really—I think it is demeaning, actually, to
                                                                    women or people of race to think somehow that you are inferior or
                                                                    incapable of doing exactly the same work. And so I think we are




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00099   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     96

                                                                    like 40 years beyond the time when we should be judging people
                                                                    on the color of their skin or their gender. We really should be, you
                                                                    know, proud of judging people equally before the law. You know,
                                                                    equality before the law.
                                                                       But I appreciate you all coming today, and that is all the ques-
                                                                    tions I have.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. I want to ask one additional ques-
                                                                    tion, if I might. In response to the resource partners reaching out
                                                                    to disadvantaged communities, you mentioned, at least one or two
                                                                    of you, the partnerships with HBCUs. And we have Women’s Busi-
                                                                    ness Centers located at HBCUs. We have in the other programs di-
                                                                    rect partnerships with HBCUs. In Maryland, we have four HBCUs
                                                                    that are all involved in entrepreneurship programs in order to ex-
                                                                    pose their students to the opportunities of entrepreneurship.
                                                                       So I want to just hear from you briefly, if I might, how relevant
                                                                    or important it is to utilize the HBCUs in trying to carry out your
                                                                    missions of entrepreneurship. Again, I will start off with Mr. Rowe.
                                                                       Mr. ROWE. I think it is absolutely essential. We work with, I
                                                                    think—what did I say? Twenty-one different HBCUs in 14 different
                                                                    states. They are a valuable part of our effort to make sure that we
                                                                    are fulfilling our statutory mission, which is to serve everyone in
                                                                    the State or region that the SBDC is assisting.
                                                                       And the HBCUs are a valuable tool for us in part of what we do,
                                                                    which is pedagogy on entrepreneurship. We are working regularly
                                                                    with programs, for example in Alaska, K through 12, just to teach
                                                                    kids about having a business, what it means. So we think it is ab-
                                                                    solutely essential to work with the HBCUs.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Ms. Hodges, I know that Morgan State Uni-
                                                                    versity has an entrepreneurship center and recently coupled that
                                                                    with the Women’s Business Center.
                                                                       Ms. HODGES. Yes, sir, that makes six now Women’s Business
                                                                    Centers located on Historically Black College and University cam-
                                                                    puses. We find it is incredibly important for Women’s Business
                                                                    Centers to be available everywhere potential businesses are, inclu-
                                                                    sive of places like HBCUs and minority-serving institutions. We
                                                                    just really need to be accessible and available to all women entre-
                                                                    preneurs, especially minority groups. I mentioned the three that
                                                                    had opened previously, and you know, we would like to see contin-
                                                                    ued growth in that area in the future.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                       Ms. Weston?
                                                                       Ms. WESTON. SCORE has recently formed a relationship with
                                                                    Tougaloo Foundation, a research and development foundation,
                                                                    which is a collaboration of HBCUs across the country. We are
                                                                    working with them to make sure that HBCUs have access to
                                                                    SCORE mentors and our educational materials regardless of where
                                                                    they are in the country. Many of the local HBCUs do partner with
                                                                    our SCORE chapters and have used our educational materials and
                                                                    courses as well as helped us be an avenue to let people know about
                                                                    the mentors and resources that SCORE brings to these—to anyone
                                                                    looking to start or grow a small business.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                       Senator Paul?
                                                                       [No audible response.]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00100   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                     97

                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Well, once again, let me thank our witnesses.
                                                                    I think your testimony will help us as we move forward in regards
                                                                    to legislative oversight and action.
                                                                       So with that, the Committee will stand adjourned, with our
                                                                    thanks.
                                                                       [Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00101   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00102   Fmt 6633   Sfmt 6633   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                             APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED




                                                                                                                     (99)




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER

                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00103   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    100




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 057 here 47360.057


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00104   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    101




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 058 here 47360.058


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00105   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    102




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 059 here 47360.059


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00106   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    103




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 060 here 47360.060


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00107   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    104




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 061 here 47360.061


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00108   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    105




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 062 here 47360.062


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00109   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    106




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 063 here 47360.063


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00110   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    107




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 064 here 47360.064


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00111   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    108




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 065 here 47360.065


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00112   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    109




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 066 here 47360.066


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00113   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    110




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 067 here 47360.067


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00114   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    111




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 068 here 47360.068


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00115   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    112




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 069 here 47360.069


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00116   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    113




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 070 here 47360.070


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00117   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    114




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 071 here 47360.071


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00118   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    115




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 072 here 47360.072


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00119   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    116




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 073 here 47360.073


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00120   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    117




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 074 here 47360.074


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00121   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    118




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 075 here 47360.075


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00122   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    119




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 076 here 47360.076


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00123   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    120




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 077 here 47360.077


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00124   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    121




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 078 here 47360.078


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00125   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    122




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 079 here 47360.079


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00126   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    123




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 080 here 47360.080


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00127   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    124




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 081 here 47360.081


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00128   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    125




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 082 here 47360.082


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00129   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    126




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 083 here 47360.083


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00130   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    127




OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 084 here 47360.084


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00131   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6601   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360
                                                                                                                    128




                                                                                                                     Æ



OPDS05-437224 with DISTILLER                                                                                                                                                     Insert offset folio 085 here 47360.085


                               VerDate Sep 11 2014   08:43 May 17, 2022   Jkt 045488   PO 00000   Frm 00132   Fmt 6601   Sfmt 6611   C:\JANICE_WIP\SBE\47360\47360.TXT   47360


File and source

File
CHRG-117shrg47360.pdf
Size
30,236,807 bytes
SHA-256
d05d3e918629fdc749430cace7bde58429d3387bb586d894a60d92ec3d2ff92e
Our copy
CHRG-117shrg47360.pdf
Original
www.govinfo.gov
Back to top