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Realizing the Vision of Parren Mitchell— Untapping the Potential of Minority and Women Contracting (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, May 19, 2021)

Summary

S. HRG. 117–209, the printed record of a hearing titled Realizing the Vision of Parren Mitchell—Untapping the Potential of Minority and Women Contracting before the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, held May 19, 2021 in the 117th Congress and printed in 2022. The committee met at 2:30 p.m. in Room 301 of the Russell Senate Office Building with Chairman Ben Cardin presiding. The two witnesses are Rosa Q. Caldas, President and CEO of ZemiTek, LLC, and Euripides Rubio, President and CEO of Ops Tech Alliance, LLC. The contents list their testimony and prepared statements, a National Urban League letter dated May 19, 2021, and each witness's responses to questions submitted by Senators Hirono and Young.

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Cite this document

“Realizing the Vision of Parren Mitchell— Untapping the Potential of Minority and Women Contracting (Senate Small Business Committee hearing, May 19, 2021).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/realizing-the-vision-of-parren-mitchell-untapping-the-potential-of-min-db7bf0460b/, SHA-256 83eb817f480fc6d0ce94f96ed24a8c075b0cf6bb115468c61f477aeb7c7e52b8.

Full text

                                                                                                                                                     S. HRG. 117–209

                                                                          REALIZING THE VISION OF PARREN MITCHELL—
                                                                                 UNTAPPING THE POTENTIAL OF
                                                                              MINORITY AND WOMEN CONTRACTING



                                                                                                          HEARING
                                                                                                                 BEFORE THE


                                                                              COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                 AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
                                                                                                                    OF THE


                                                                                           UNITED STATES SENATE
                                                                                   ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                                               FIRST SESSION


                                                                                                                MAY 19, 2021


                                                                              Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship




                                                                                                                   (
                                                                                       Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov




                                                                                                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                                                           46–998 PDF                          WASHINGTON : 2022




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                                                                              COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP

                                                                                           ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS



                                                                                       BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland, Chairman
                                                                                         RAND PAUL, Kentucky, Ranking Member
                                                                     MARIA CANTWELL, Washington             MARCO RUBIO, Florida
                                                                     JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire          JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
                                                                     EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts        TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
                                                                     CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey             JONI ERNST, Iowa
                                                                     CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware         JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
                                                                     MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii                TODD YOUNG, Indiana
                                                                     TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois              JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
                                                                     JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                    JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
                                                                     JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado            ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
                                                                                          SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
                                                                                       WILLIAM HENDERSON, Republican Staff Director




                                                                                                                         (II)




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                                                                                                             C O N T E N T S

                                                                                                                    OPENING STATEMENTS
                                                                                                                                                                                                Page
                                                                     Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., Chairman, a U.S. Senator from Maryland ..............                                              1

                                                                                                                             WITNESSES
                                                                     Caldas, Ms. Rosa Q., President and CEO, ZemiTek, LLC, Bethesda, MD .........                                                 4
                                                                     Rubio, Mr. Euripides ‘‘Ruby’’, President and CEO, Ops Tech Alliance, LLC,
                                                                       Bowie, MD ............................................................................................................    11

                                                                                      ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
                                                                     Caldas, Ms. Rosa Q.
                                                                         Testimony ..........................................................................................................     4
                                                                         Prepared statement ..........................................................................................            6
                                                                         Responses to questions submitted by Senators Hirono and Young ..............                                            36
                                                                     Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L.
                                                                         Opening statement ...........................................................................................            1
                                                                     National Urban League
                                                                         Letter dated May 19, 2021 ...............................................................................               32
                                                                     Rubio, Mr. Euripides ‘‘Ruby’’
                                                                         Testimony ..........................................................................................................    11
                                                                         Prepared statement ..........................................................................................           13
                                                                         Responses to questions submitted by Senators Hirono and Young ..............                                            41




                                                                                                                                  (III)




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                                                                                  REALIZING THE VISION OF
                                                                                    PARREN MITCHELL—
                                                                                UNTAPPING THE POTENTIAL OF
                                                                             MINORITY AND WOMEN CONTRACTING

                                                                                                  WEDNESDAY, MAY 19, 2021

                                                                                                 UNITED STATES SENATE,
                                                                                              COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                                         AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
                                                                                                                    Washington, DC.
                                                                       The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m., in Room
                                                                     301, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Ben Cardin, Chairman of
                                                                     the Committee, presiding.
                                                                       Present: Senators Cardin, Shaheen, Hirono, Rosen, Hickenlooper,
                                                                     Scott, Young, Hawley, and Marshall.
                                                                             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN,
                                                                               CHAIRMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND
                                                                        Chairman CARDIN. Good afternoon and welcome to this com-
                                                                     mittee hearing of the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Com-
                                                                     mittee. I want to thank all of you for joining on this important and
                                                                     timely hearing on the role the Federal Government must play in
                                                                     supporting minority and women-owned businesses that supply our
                                                                     government with goods and services.
                                                                        The title of today’s hearing respects my late friend and mentor,
                                                                     Congressman Parren J. Mitchell. Congressman Mitchell was the
                                                                     first African American elected to Congress from the State of Mary-
                                                                     land. He rose to become chairman of the Small Business Com-
                                                                     mittee in the House of Representatives. He advanced opportunities
                                                                     for minority small businesses, including the first minority set-aside
                                                                     passed by Congress.
                                                                        In addition to being the first African American elected to the
                                                                     U.S. Congress from Maryland, Congressman Mitchell also created
                                                                     the first set-aside minority program. It was created in 1977 when
                                                                     he successfully attached an amendment to a $4 billion public works
                                                                     bill that required State and local government to set aside 10 per-
                                                                     cent of the funds for minority-owned businesses.
                                                                        Congressman Mitchell called the amendment his proudest con-
                                                                     gressional accomplishment. Congressman Mitchell understood that
                                                                     any plan to strengthen the wealth of America must include entre-
                                                                     preneurship, and that the U.S. Federal Government, the largest
                                                                     purchaser of goods and services in the world, has an important role
                                                                     to play in this effort by ensuring that small businesses owned by
                                                                     members of historically disadvantaged communities, including mi-
                                                                                                                         (1)




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                                                                                                                         2

                                                                     norities and women, are able to do business with government agen-
                                                                     cies.
                                                                        This hearing is timely because President Biden’s American Jobs
                                                                     Plan proposes a once-in-a-generation investment in our Nation’s in-
                                                                     frastructure across all types. Addressing equity for underserved
                                                                     and disadvantaged communities must be a focus in all of these en-
                                                                     deavors.
                                                                        So today we will focus on the programs within SBA that help
                                                                     level the playing field for minority- and women-owned businesses,
                                                                     including the 8(a) Business Development Program and the Woman-
                                                                     Owned Small Business Program. The motivation behind my com-
                                                                     mitment to ensuring that the Federal Government is providing con-
                                                                     tracting opportunities for minority- and women-owned businesses
                                                                     is twofold. First, I want to ensure that the Federal Government is
                                                                     providing small businesses with the opportunity to compete for
                                                                     Federal contracts on a level playing field with large corporations.
                                                                     And secondly, Federal contracting is a vital part of the economy in
                                                                     my home State of Maryland, where Federal Government con-
                                                                     tracting spending accounts for 8 percent of our annual GDP and
                                                                     supports thousands of jobs to help families into the middle class.
                                                                        Congress passed the Small Business Act to ensure the preserva-
                                                                     tion and expansion of a level playing field for small businesses be-
                                                                     cause by doing so it is vital to the security of this Nation. The
                                                                     COVID–19 pandemic has shown us all how true these words are.
                                                                     In the past year, the Small Business Administration has delivered
                                                                     more than $1 trillion in aide to our Nation’s smallest businesses in
                                                                     order to prevent the dire economic consequences. I am proud that
                                                                     my amendment to extend the nine-year limit for participation in
                                                                     the 8(a) program to 10 years was included in the Fiscal Year 2021
                                                                     NDAA bill. That measure will provide small businesses in the pro-
                                                                     gram during the pandemic with an additional year of eligibility.
                                                                        Small businesses are where innovation happens in our economy,
                                                                     and this committee has discussed many times in the past years
                                                                     that we must ensure we provide our small businesses with the sup-
                                                                     port they need to compete in the global marketplace. In 1997, Con-
                                                                     gress set goals for the Federal Government to spend 23 percent of
                                                                     all contracting dollars with small businesses. In Fiscal Year 2019,
                                                                     the Small Business Federal Procurement Scorecard showed that
                                                                     the Federal Government exceeded its small business contracting
                                                                     goals during that fiscal year, awarding 26.5 percent of all Federal
                                                                     contracts to small businesses.
                                                                        The total value of the contracts was $132.9 billion, representing
                                                                     a 10 percent increase from the previous fiscal year. The Scorecard
                                                                     showed that the Federal Government exceeded its goals in three of
                                                                     the four associated economic categories, including women-owned
                                                                     small businesses, the second time in the history of the Scorecard
                                                                     that the Federal Government hit its 5 percent goal for that pro-
                                                                     gram.
                                                                        While I’m pleased that the Federal agencies are meeting most of
                                                                     their contracting goals, I have seen recent concerning data showing
                                                                     that we are shrinking the number of contractors that are partici-
                                                                     pating in the program. A recent report by Bloomberg Government
                                                                     found that the number of Federal contractors working on unclassi-
                                                                     fied contracts is at a 10-year low despite a steady rise in Federal




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                                                                     Government contracting spending over the same period of time. So
                                                                     there are less businesses participating even though we have a
                                                                     growth in small businesses.
                                                                        In Fiscal Year 2016, for example, more than 120,000 small busi-
                                                                     nesses contracted with the Federal Government, but in Fiscal Year
                                                                     2019 that number had dropped to under 103,000 small businesses.
                                                                     That means that while contracts are getting bigger and bigger, we
                                                                     are creating an insular club where fewer and fewer businesses suc-
                                                                     cessfully compete for government contracts, creating a less competi-
                                                                     tive marketplace in the process.
                                                                        Predictably, our Nation’s small businesses are bearing the brunt
                                                                     of the decline. According to the report, the Federal Government did
                                                                     business with 32 percent less small vendors in Fiscal Year 2018
                                                                     than it did in Fiscal Year 2009. For a comparison, the number of
                                                                     large vendors fell by only 4 percent.
                                                                        So today I am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses.
                                                                     They’re both Maryland entrepreneurs whose businesses have bene-
                                                                     fited from the 8(a) and women-owned small business program.
                                                                        Rosa Caldas is President and Chief Executive Officer of ZemiTek,
                                                                     an 8(a) and woman-owned certified small business headquartered
                                                                     in Bethesda, Maryland; and Euripides ‘‘Ruby’’ Rubio is President
                                                                     and Chief Executive Officer of Ops Tech Alliance, an 8(a) and serv-
                                                                     ice disabled veteran-owned small business, certified, headquartered
                                                                     also in Bethesda. Bethesda is getting very well represented here
                                                                     today.
                                                                        Mr. Rubio is also a graduate from the Bowie Business Innovation
                                                                     Center 8(a) Accelerator and the Veterans Institute for Procurement
                                                                     program, which are both successful programs in Maryland that can
                                                                     serve as a model for the Nation as we seek to support small busi-
                                                                     ness contractors.
                                                                        I do want to acknowledge the work of Barbara Ashe with regards
                                                                     to the VIP program because it’s a unique program. It was created
                                                                     under the sponsorship of the Montgomery County Chamber of
                                                                     Commerce. That’s Montgomery County, Maryland. It was a na-
                                                                     tional program to help veteran small businesses, and it’s been very
                                                                     successful, helping over 1,600 veteran-owned small businesses to
                                                                     date. One of those companies is represented by one of our wit-
                                                                     nesses today.
                                                                        So I’m also looking forward to learning from Ms. Caldas and Mr.
                                                                     Rubio about what aspects of the 8(a) and the woman-owned small
                                                                     business programs are working well, as well as the areas we need
                                                                     to improve for more small businesses to successfully compete for
                                                                     Federal contracts.
                                                                        President Biden’s American Jobs Plan seeks to invest more than
                                                                     $2 trillion in our Nation’s infrastructure, so now is the time to im-
                                                                     prove the 8(a) and woman-owned small business programs so
                                                                     woman- and minority-owned small businesses have the support
                                                                     they need to participate in a once-in-a-generation opportunity.
                                                                        I know that Senator Paul, the ranking Republican member, will
                                                                     be joining us shortly. He asked us to proceed with the witnesses,
                                                                     so we’ll do exactly that. We’ll go in the order in which I first ac-
                                                                     knowledged our witnesses.
                                                                        So, Ms. Caldas, we’ll start with you.




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                                                                           STATEMENT OF ROSA Q. CALDAS, PRESIDENT AND CEO,
                                                                                     ZEMITEK, LLC, BETHESDA, MD
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Chairman Cardin,
                                                                     we don’t have here Ranking Member Paul, and members of the
                                                                     committee. It is an honor to meet you and to be invited to speak
                                                                     at this committee.
                                                                        My name is Rosa Caldas. I am the President and CEO of
                                                                     ZemiTek, an 8(a) and woman-owned small business located in Be-
                                                                     thesda, Maryland. Thank you for the opportunity to speak at to-
                                                                     day’s hearing.
                                                                        My experience supporting the Federal Government dates back to
                                                                     1995, when I began managing projects for Federal contractors. I
                                                                     founded ZemiTek in 2007 because I felt I could do a better job sup-
                                                                     porting the government and providing a better and more nurturing
                                                                     environment for my employees.
                                                                        In 2008, ZemiTek was accepted as part of the Montgomery Coun-
                                                                     ty Business Innovation Center, and I briefly entered the HUBZone
                                                                     program. During our first eight years, most of our work was
                                                                     through small purchase orders and subcontract work. During this
                                                                     period, we experienced difficulties in gaining access to funding, lim-
                                                                     iting our ability to grow.
                                                                        In 2015, we won our first significant prime contract award by
                                                                     leveraging a partnership with a more experienced large business.
                                                                     In 2017, we secured our GSA schedules, entered the SBA Mentor–
                                                                     Protégé program, and formed a joint venture with our mentor. We
                                                                     obtained a GSA Best-in-Class OASIS schedule in 2020 through our
                                                                     joint venture. We now have over 70 employees, as well as many
                                                                     consultants.
                                                                        The small business set-aside programs are critical for the devel-
                                                                     opment of small businesses, for economic development, and for pro-
                                                                     viding innovation and flexibility to the Federal Government buyers.
                                                                     We sincerely believe the small business contracting goals are due
                                                                     for upward revision.
                                                                        The Federal Government small business goals have not been in-
                                                                     creased in over 24 years, and the WSB goal has not been increased
                                                                     since its inception.
                                                                        Goals are important and effective in keeping the Federal Govern-
                                                                     ment accountable. We are grateful for ZemiTek’s opportunity to
                                                                     participate in the 8(a) program. It is important for potential par-
                                                                     ticipants to make sure they fully understand the Federal con-
                                                                     tracting landscape to fully benefit from the limited timeframe of
                                                                     the program. ZemiTek made a conscious decision to delay submit-
                                                                     ting our application until we were ready.
                                                                        The 8(a) program does have some challenges. For example, the
                                                                     sole source cap is long overdue for an increase. It needs to be ad-
                                                                     justed for the increasing average size of contracts. The maximum
                                                                     total contract value for a sole-source 8(a) award is $4 million. Mak-
                                                                     ing it an annual cap of $4 million will be preferable. But at the
                                                                     very least, the cap should be doubled.
                                                                        More resources need to be provided to the SBA, its three offices.
                                                                     Business Opportunity especially carries an overwhelming workload
                                                                     and often focuses more on compliance rather than business devel-
                                                                     opment. SBA district offices could benefit from an increase in staff-
                                                                     ing, as well as more consistent training.




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                                                                        We are very grateful to the Small Business Committee in allow-
                                                                     ing for a one-year extension in the 8(a) program. Twenty-twenty
                                                                     was a challenging year for all of us, as well as for small businesses.
                                                                     Normal business development, client engagement, and networking
                                                                     opportunities were reduced, and growth was difficult. We support
                                                                     the Mentor–Protégé program and have benefited from participa-
                                                                     tion. These formalized relationships allow us to benefit from our
                                                                     mentor’s guidance and improve our ability to pursue prime con-
                                                                     tracts. Protégés are limited to two mentors for the company, and
                                                                     we believe that allowing more than two mentors will help small
                                                                     businesses maximize their learning opportunities prior to gradua-
                                                                     tion.
                                                                        Category management poses serious and significant challenges
                                                                     for the small business community. Fewer and fewer requirements
                                                                     are being issued as a stand-alone contract, meaning fewer opportu-
                                                                     nities for small businesses. Consolidation and bundling of simple
                                                                     requirements and placing them on BICs further erodes the com-
                                                                     petitiveness of small businesses, as they often lack the capability
                                                                     to bid on the size and complex nature of the consolidated contract.
                                                                        With respect to the WSB program, we have found the certifi-
                                                                     cation process to be cumbersome, and we recommend increasing re-
                                                                     sources to the SBA to ensure that they are able to successfully
                                                                     manage the certification process. We also recommend implementing
                                                                     reciprocity between the 8(a) and WSB programs.
                                                                        Thank you so much for the opportunity to share my experience
                                                                     with you. I look forward to answering any questions you may have.
                                                                        [The prepared statement of Ms. Caldas follows:]




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                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Ms. Caldas, thank you very much for your
                                                                     testimony.
                                                                       We will now hear from Mr. Rubio from Bowie, Maryland, not Be-
                                                                     thesda, Maryland. I want to correct the record to make sure the
                                                                     great city of Bowie—the mayor is going to be with me tomorrow—
                                                                     got the right credit for Bowie.
                                                                       Mr. Rubio?
                                                                          STATEMENT OF EURIPIDES ‘‘RUBY’’ RUBIO, PRESIDENT AND
                                                                                CEO, OPS TECH ALLIANCE, LLC, BOWIE, MD
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. Good afternoon, Chairman Cardin and distinguished
                                                                     members of the committee. My name is Euripides Rubio, and I am
                                                                     the President and CEO of Ops Tech Alliance—OTA—a 100 percent
                                                                     Hispanic and service-disabled veteran-owned business located in
                                                                     Bowie, Maryland. As a minority and an advocate for service-dis-
                                                                     abled veterans in business, I thank you for the opportunity to con-
                                                                     tribute to the discussion of how we can best tap the incredible po-
                                                                     tential of our country’s minority and women contractors.
                                                                        My company, OTA, was formed to bridge the gap between oper-
                                                                     ations and technology. We provide training, cybersecurity products
                                                                     and services. With the increase of cyber threats to our Nation,
                                                                     OTA’s background enabled us to consistently produce excellent re-
                                                                     sults for our clients, and we’re very proud of that fact.
                                                                        We also made the Inc. 5000 list for fastest growing companies
                                                                     the last three years in a row. So we are moving at a good pace.
                                                                        I grew up poor with a strong mother who got us out of the
                                                                     projects and kept us on track. She got me to college, but because
                                                                     of financial constraints I had to drop out. So I was that one guy
                                                                     who went to the Army recruiter. He offered me $50 a month to
                                                                     jump out of planes, and I said ‘‘Where do I sign?’’ So I spent 23
                                                                     years in the Army with a career in Intelligence and Special Oper-
                                                                     ations.
                                                                        After my retirement I was eager to do something challenging, so
                                                                     in 2012 I registered OTA as a business. I invested all my retire-
                                                                     ment savings into this company. I even survived the 2013 govern-
                                                                     ment shutdown. But statistically, I was expected to fail.
                                                                        By 2014 I hired our first employee, and we got into our first con-
                                                                     tract. By the end of the year I was responsible for four families,
                                                                     not to mention my own. Our biggest problem was a delayed pay-
                                                                     ment by large prime companies. Of course, my employees could not
                                                                     wait 45 to 60 days to get paid, nor my bills.
                                                                        The current law doesn’t enforce oversight to ensure small busi-
                                                                     nesses are receiving prompt payment within 15 days. Faster pay-
                                                                     ment will not burden a large business, but it will make a world of
                                                                     difference for small companies.
                                                                        In 2015 we applied for the 8(a) program and got accepted, but
                                                                     I found that the reality was not what I expected. Our current cli-
                                                                     ents were not familiar with the program, and there was a lack of
                                                                     awareness and result to use the 8(a), at least in my line of work.
                                                                     So I ended up in the same position where I started from.
                                                                        It wasn’t until 2017 where we were searching for a business in-
                                                                     cubator, and that’s how we connected with Lisa Smith from the
                                                                     Bowie Innovation Center. They provided us with many resources,
                                                                     but more importantly the Bowie BIC 8(a) Accelerator program,




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                                                                     which included training, mentoring, and many resources to use the
                                                                     8(a) more efficiently.
                                                                       In the same year we were accepted to the Veterans Institute Pro-
                                                                     curement, the VIP, which was another great program, managed by
                                                                     Barbara Ashe, where we received very valuable training and net-
                                                                     working with veteran-owned companies.
                                                                       Without question, these two programs gave us a lot of insights
                                                                     in areas of business and client landscape that I couldn’t find any-
                                                                     where else.
                                                                       As a minority and a veteran-owned business, we have more grit
                                                                     and experience overcoming obstacles. However, the competitive
                                                                     landscape is extremely unpredictable. And, of course, I’m not even
                                                                     addressing the devastating effects that COVID–19 had on small
                                                                     businesses. If it weren’t for the PPP loan, I would not be sitting
                                                                     here talking to you today.
                                                                       In conclusion, I believe the following key steps, if implemented
                                                                     by the committee, will have the greatest impact.
                                                                       First, increase and enforce the contracting goals of the Federal
                                                                     Government and large prime contractors for minority small busi-
                                                                     nesses.
                                                                       Next, increase training for all government agencies on the actual
                                                                     process utilizing minority small businesses.
                                                                       Expand access and require minority businesses to graduate from
                                                                     programs like the Bowie BIC 8(a) Accelerator and VIP.
                                                                       Establish oversight to ensure that Federal agencies and prime
                                                                     contractors are paying minority small businesses within 15 days.
                                                                       And lastly, change the protest process. Protests are devastating
                                                                     the procurement system and wasting money and opportunities for
                                                                     minority small businesses.
                                                                       Thank you, distinguished members of the committee, for your
                                                                     time and attention to these issues. Minorities and women are clear-
                                                                     ly in the spotlight now, and I recommend focus on these matters
                                                                     more than ever. I’m honored to be here to speak on their behalf,
                                                                     and I’m ready for any questions you might have.
                                                                       [The prepared statement of Mr. Rubio follows:]




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                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Let me thank both of you for your testimony,
                                                                     and let me make this observation.
                                                                       The American Jobs Plan is really a once-in-a-generation oppor-
                                                                     tunity to make a significant investment in the infrastructure of our
                                                                     Nation. But we also have to make sure it’s opportunities for all
                                                                     businesses to participate in that infrastructure. So we need to oper-
                                                                     ate from the beginning with the opportunities for small businesses,
                                                                     particularly in the underserved communities, in the minority com-
                                                                     munities and women-owned small businesses.
                                                                       That’s one of the reasons for this hearing. You’ve made a lot of
                                                                     suggestions. We’re going to be looking at those suggestions. We’re
                                                                     in discussions with the Biden administration and with our House
                                                                     counterparts as to how we can ensure that the investment in infra-
                                                                     structure will be used to advance these goals, and I think you’ve
                                                                     given us a lot of good suggestions.
                                                                       I want to talk for just a moment about the Bowie Accelerator
                                                                     program. We’re very proud of what they do at Bowie. It’s one of the
                                                                     great examples, and it’s been extremely helpful. The VIP program
                                                                     that Barbara Ashe heads is one that I brag about all the time. It
                                                                     started with the resources of the local Chamber of Commerce in
                                                                     Maryland, in Montgomery County. It became a national model be-
                                                                     cause it served the national community of veterans, got a partner-
                                                                     ship with the Small Business Administration. We were pleased to
                                                                     promote that, and now it is truly the template for how we can pro-
                                                                     vide services to veterans in our Nation.
                                                                       So we’re proud of both of the programs that you all have referred
                                                                     to.
                                                                       I want to deal with raising the caps that you’ve talked about, so
                                                                     let me start with the sole source, because sole source is one of the
                                                                     great tools that allows for the contract really to be made with mi-
                                                                     nority businesses and women-owned businesses.
                                                                       Today, the cap on a multi-year contract is about $900,000 on sole
                                                                     source, which really takes you out of the prime contract area exclu-
                                                                     sively. So you deal with the abuses you’re talking about on prompt
                                                                     payment and all the other challenges you have in dealing with
                                                                     prime contractors.
                                                                       So just elaborate a little bit more for me how important it is in
                                                                     reality, what types of contracts are we talking about that you all
                                                                     could qualify for under sole source if that cap was raised.
                                                                       Either one who wants to start.
                                                                       Mr. RUBIO. Well, I can tell you, sir, Senator, that we missed op-
                                                                     portunities because of that cap. Like Ms. Caldas mentioned, it
                                                                     should be increased even yearly, because when you look at those
                                                                     numbers and the opportunities that are out there, the numbers are
                                                                     not keeping up with inflation, with the economy. So it definitely
                                                                     should be increased. When you look at these numbers, they haven’t
                                                                     changed in a long time, over 20 years. So I think it’s time.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. And when the contracting agency is limited
                                                                     by the size, they can’t put these contracts up for sole source even
                                                                     though they may be ideal for the sort of special attention that Con-
                                                                     gress intended.
                                                                       Ms. Caldas, do you want to add anything to that?
                                                                       Ms. CALDAS. Yes. I’m just going to provide a couple of examples.
                                                                     We have received a couple of sole source 8(a) contracts. The limit




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                                                                     was $4 million. And this is just to illustrate how important it is
                                                                     to increase the cap. One of our coding contracts is providing tech-
                                                                     nical support services to USAID and the Mission in Haiti. Because
                                                                     of all the security problems they have had in that country, they
                                                                     have had to rely more and more on contractors to provide service
                                                                     support.
                                                                        We received the contract sole source award, and because of this
                                                                     situation, we started deploying and providing technical assistance
                                                                     and staff, and this contract is less than a year old, and they al-
                                                                     ready have committed to around 80 percent of the ceiling of that
                                                                     contract. It takes time for the agencies to identify companies like
                                                                     us that have the technical expertise and have the knowledge to de-
                                                                     liver those services. They establish, they award the contract, and
                                                                     then they get themselves in a situation where they are reaching
                                                                     the cap and the ceiling very quickly, and they don’t have the flexi-
                                                                     bility to increase that ceiling.
                                                                        I think it’s very obvious that whatever—the contracts that were
                                                                     $4 million so many years ago, you cannot buy the same amount of
                                                                     services as you do today. But the reason for the sole source allows
                                                                     for an easier expedited process to issue these contracts, and it is
                                                                     not very straightforward for the agencies to understand if they
                                                                     have any flexibility to increase it and what is the next step.
                                                                        So I just wanted to illustrate one of the examples. That is the
                                                                     type of services that we provide, and it would be beneficial for 8(a)
                                                                     companies, but also beneficial for the Federal Government buyers.
                                                                        Chairman CARDIN. Let me ask one additional question, and that
                                                                     is that I was pleased, and you acknowledged in your testimony,
                                                                     that we extended the 8(a) program for an additional year as a re-
                                                                     sult of COVID–19 in the NDAA bill. But I want to talk about grad-
                                                                     uating out of the 8(a) and your ability to compete once you have
                                                                     completed the number of years of eligibility.
                                                                        We had the 7(j) technical assistance that’s supposed to be helping
                                                                     you transition off of the preference under the 8(a) program. Should
                                                                     we be looking at ways to strengthen the ability to deal with the
                                                                     transition off of 8(a)? Are there other issues that we should be look-
                                                                     ing at? Are there things that we can do to make it more resilient
                                                                     for small businesses that were 8(a) that no longer are?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Absolutely. Prior to forming my company, I sup-
                                                                     ported a small business, mid-size businesses, and I was also an em-
                                                                     ployee of large companies. The type of resources that large compa-
                                                                     nies have to compete for work cannot even compare to what a
                                                                     small business can do. So what happens is many of our small busi-
                                                                     ness company owners start worrying about the situation where you
                                                                     go from being a small business to other than small. Other than
                                                                     small could be a company that just graduated from their NIC code.
                                                                     It is a very difficult environment where a lot of small businesses
                                                                     don’t survive, or they start finding ways to stay small so they don’t
                                                                     enter the ‘‘valley of death,’’ like some companies mentioned, or they
                                                                     look for opportunities to be acquired because they know that they
                                                                     may not be able to compete in that environment.
                                                                        So there are several things that could be done. One of them is
                                                                     revising the size standard under NIC codes so a small business
                                                                     could take advantage of staying small a little bit longer while they
                                                                     strengthen their capabilities to graduate from that NIC code.




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                                                                        Allowing more mentors in the Mentor–Protégé. As I mentioned
                                                                     in my testimony, small businesses can only have two through the
                                                                     life of the company, when mentors, and most of them are large
                                                                     businesses, can have three Protégés at the same time. So allowing
                                                                     for more mentors also gives the opportunity for small businesses to
                                                                     grow and learn more through the advice of those companies.
                                                                        So there are many, many other options out there that should be
                                                                     considered. Training is always good. But at the end, when you fin-
                                                                     ish the training, you need to find ways to have resources to com-
                                                                     pete in an environment where it’s just very, very hard to compete.
                                                                        Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. I appreciate that.
                                                                        Senator Hawley and Senator Scott have passed on questioning,
                                                                     so we’re up to Senator Marshall.
                                                                        Senator MARSHALL. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Chairman.
                                                                     Glad to be here, and welcome to our witnesses this afternoon as
                                                                     well.
                                                                        In today’s hearing we’re supposed to be talking about the
                                                                     HUBZone service, disabled and veteran-owned and woman-owned
                                                                     small business programs. Our staff and myself, we made a huge ef-
                                                                     fort to reach out to our minority Chambers, to small business own-
                                                                     ers, small business wannabe owners in economically distressed
                                                                     communities, and I certainly have not solved the puzzle yet.
                                                                        And as I interviewed people and listened, two big issues remain,
                                                                     among others, two that I’ve identified: access to capital, and really
                                                                     financial literacy. So I want to talk about access to capital for a
                                                                     second.
                                                                        What advice would you be giving to me to give to future small
                                                                     business owners when it comes to accessing capital? And in par-
                                                                     ticular, I want to know if you’ve had any experience with the CDFI,
                                                                     the Community Development Financial Institutions.
                                                                        I’ll ask each of you first, and ladies first, Ms. Caldas, please.
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Having access to capital is imperative. When we
                                                                     started and we reached out to one of the banks that we were work-
                                                                     ing with, the first thing they tell you is we want you to be in busi-
                                                                     ness for two years. Then you go back and knock at the door, it’s
                                                                     been two years and, oh, it just depends on how many contracts you
                                                                     have. When you have contracts, come back and show the bank, and
                                                                     the bank said, well, we want you to have multiple years.
                                                                        And in the meantime you have payroll, you have benefits to pay
                                                                     for your employees, and many of us do a couple of things: one,
                                                                     cashing in retirement and mortgage the house, just to make sure
                                                                     to keep the company moving; or using some services where you sell
                                                                     your invoices and pay very high interest so you can manage your
                                                                     cash.
                                                                        It has been helpful when we started winning prime contract
                                                                     work because some of the Federal agencies do pay us quickly. It
                                                                     is completely different when you are a subcontractor to large
                                                                     primes. Sometimes you get paid 60 days, 90 days, and payroll
                                                                     needs to be paid before the invoice goes out.
                                                                        So definitely there should be more resources dedicated to either
                                                                     some of these financial banks, working with the SBA and providing
                                                                     some ability for smaller companies to start being able to have ac-
                                                                     cess to borrow based on the work that they are doing and making




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                                                                     it easier to tap that capital. It is not that easy, and we all as small
                                                                     business owners have gone through that.
                                                                        Senator MARSHALL. Right. Mr. Rubio, I certainly understand it’s
                                                                     a challenge. That’s what I’m trying to get at. Have you had any ex-
                                                                     perience with CDFIs? And where are people getting access to cap-
                                                                     ital, woman-owned businesses, minority-owned businesses? Any ad-
                                                                     vice?
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. In my case, when I first started, I had to borrow
                                                                     money from friends and family, and a lot of people do that. Like
                                                                     she said, you show up to a bank and they say great story, great
                                                                     company, great contract, but you just got a contract, we’re not giv-
                                                                     ing you money.
                                                                        There was this thing we did not know about, the 7(a) SBA loan,
                                                                     and we actually got that. One bank, actually—we ended up with
                                                                     Sandy Spring, and they’re the ones that actually told us, hey, by
                                                                     the way, there’s an SBA-backed 7(a) program, and that saved our
                                                                     lives, actually. I got my first loan there. Of course, you also had
                                                                     to put in your house, your life insurance. I had to put everything
                                                                     in it, but that actually helped us a lot.
                                                                        Senator MARSHALL. Was that like a 5 percent down? Is that what
                                                                     that type of loan was?
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. Yes, there were some fees there, and since I was a
                                                                     veteran too, there were some things that were waived. But it was
                                                                     an easy—well, not an easy process, but definitely once we found
                                                                     out that that was available, we’re still in it today. The deal with
                                                                     that is there was no education. I had no idea that it existed.
                                                                        Going back to education, things like the VIP, the 8(a) Accel-
                                                                     erator—actually, I found out after the fact. I went to this course,
                                                                     this training, years into when I started the company, and I wish
                                                                     I would have done all that before even getting my certification. I
                                                                     regretted getting my 8(a) so early, and I was already three years
                                                                     into it. I wish I would have had this training before I did this.
                                                                        And the same thing with the money, the education. They brought
                                                                     the banks, they brought folks, CPAs who came in and talked to us.
                                                                     The deal with these programs is you actually have to sit there, and
                                                                     all these folks come in, and you can mentorship, you can ask ques-
                                                                     tions. It’s different from me sitting online and going through a
                                                                     class. It was more interactive, right? And you have folks who have
                                                                     actually done it.
                                                                        Senator MARSHALL. All right.
                                                                        Thank you, Chairman. I yield back.
                                                                        Chairman CARDIN. Senator Shaheen?
                                                                        Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                        And thank you both very much for being here and for your in-
                                                                     sights into what we could do to make these programs more effec-
                                                                     tive.
                                                                        One of the concerns that I’ve heard from a number of small busi-
                                                                     nesses in New Hampshire is the challenge of getting into Federal
                                                                     contracting. It requires a lot of paperwork, there’s bureaucracy, and
                                                                     they find it really challenging. I’ve also heard that they feel like
                                                                     the agencies that they may be talking to have businesses that
                                                                     they’ve done business with over the years, and so they’re not that
                                                                     welcoming to new small businesses that want to do work for them.




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                                                                        So I wonder, I think you talked a little bit about how you got into
                                                                     the programs, the SBA programs. But can you talk a little bit
                                                                     about what your experience was getting into Federal contracting
                                                                     and what was the break that allowed you to do that?
                                                                        Either one or both of you.
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. It helped me that I was already in the government.
                                                                     I was retired, so I understood the system, I was used to it. Net-
                                                                     working is a big, big piece to it, of course, for any business.
                                                                        The issue for me was that when I first came in I had to develop
                                                                     a business plan. And it’s not their fault, but when I went to the
                                                                     SBA office, the sample they gave me was actually a hot dog stand,
                                                                     and they were trying to simplify it for me. But that doesn’t com-
                                                                     pare to what you have to do in a Federal—Federal contracting is
                                                                     a different animal. I mean, the financials alone, when I first start-
                                                                     ed the company, you had to be DCAA compliant. Okay, what does
                                                                     that mean? There is actually a whole agency that does that.
                                                                        So there are a lot of things, a lot of rules and policies that you
                                                                     have to establish, for good reasons, but I don’t think the SBA is
                                                                     prepared—they don’t have, at least in my case, they didn’t have
                                                                     anybody that was actually Federal contracting experts. And again,
                                                                     going back to the training that we received, those guys that were
                                                                     there, those folks were important for me, in my experience.
                                                                        Senator SHAHEEN. Ms. Caldas?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Yes. Similarly, before I formed ZemiTek, I sup-
                                                                     ported the Federal Government as an employee of a small, mid-
                                                                     size, and large contractors. So I knew enough how to deliver work
                                                                     and understood the Federal contracting environment to an extent,
                                                                     because as a manager we didn’t have access to certain information.
                                                                     It was challenging. For the reasons he was mentioning, we saw a
                                                                     lot of 8(a) companies apply, but by the time they figured things out
                                                                     they were already three or four years into the program. So that’s
                                                                     why we decided to wait through our infrastructure, our accounting
                                                                     system, before we applied for the 8(a) program.
                                                                        Now, with regard to something you mentioned that helped us
                                                                     break into some of the agencies, because it is true, sometimes you
                                                                     are trying to provide support to some agencies and you don’t under-
                                                                     stand how they work. They have different language, and they have
                                                                     different missions. What worked for ZemiTek was looking for op-
                                                                     portunities where we could bring our experience as a subcontractor,
                                                                     and it gave us the opportunity to learn how that agency worked be-
                                                                     fore we tried to pursue work in that agency as a prime contractor.
                                                                     It would have been very difficult for us to win the work without
                                                                     having an understanding not only of the Federal contracting land-
                                                                     scape but specifically understanding of that Federal agency, what
                                                                     they buy, what are the rules and regulations, because besides the
                                                                     Federal regulations, each agency has some regulations that you
                                                                     just have to understand.
                                                                        So those two things worked for ZemiTek trying to tap into Fed-
                                                                     eral contracting.
                                                                        Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you. Can I ask you, too, about your cer-
                                                                     tification as a woman-owned small business? The rules are chang-
                                                                     ing, and as of October you’re no longer able to self-certify. I also
                                                                     understand that that’s off to a relatively slow start in terms of




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                                                                     helping women-owned small businesses understand how the new
                                                                     process is going to work.
                                                                        Part of the problem is you have something called the Rule of
                                                                     Two, where there have to be two women-owned small businesses
                                                                     who can compete for whatever the contract is, and part of the chal-
                                                                     lenge is we don’t have that many women-owned small businesses.
                                                                     So it’s sort of a Catch–22. Have you experienced anything similar
                                                                     to that?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. I’m going to answer your question in two parts, the
                                                                     certification, and opportunities for the women-owned.
                                                                        The certification process has changed, and the new system is
                                                                     cumbersome and is difficult to navigate. I have been applying to
                                                                     certifications since 2008. You go from the paper process, to a sys-
                                                                     tem process. When you had Certify it was working, and we got cer-
                                                                     tified in September 2020, and now they have a new system, and
                                                                     there is not a lot of support sometimes from the SBA to navigate
                                                                     the certification process to complete the new procedures that we
                                                                     need to do before our first year. When we certified in September
                                                                     with the Certify process, we have one year to then jump to the new
                                                                     system.
                                                                        So the process is difficult, and there is not a phone number of
                                                                     somebody you can call. You keep on sending emails and just trying
                                                                     to resolve the problems by yourself. So one is the certification.
                                                                        Regarding opportunities, I have seen a lot more opportunities for
                                                                     women-owned small business in the last couple of years, and there
                                                                     are so many years that we have supported the Federal contracting.
                                                                     One thing that we are dedicating resources and, as you mentioned,
                                                                     they need to do the research and prove that a small business can
                                                                     do the work. I do believe there are a lot of woman-owned small
                                                                     businesses that can do the work. Sometimes I think the agencies,
                                                                     it’s hard for them to find it, and it is also our responsibility as
                                                                     woman-owned small business to make the agencies know that we
                                                                     are out there.
                                                                        So one of the things that we are doing is any time an agency has
                                                                     a requirement that we think we can do the work and they have a
                                                                     request for information release, we are dedicating the resources to
                                                                     respond to that and to let them know we can do the work, and by
                                                                     the way, we are 8(a) and woman-owned. We have seen good results
                                                                     on that. Last year we pursued and won a contract that was a set-
                                                                     aside woman-owned using the GSA schedule, and this year we
                                                                     have seen one or two in the last few weeks that have been re-
                                                                     leased, set-aside woman-owned, using the GSA Best-in-Class
                                                                     OASIS.
                                                                        So something is happening. Things are changing. We are seeing
                                                                     more than we have seen before. But I just wanted to address the
                                                                     two things, the certification process and the number of opportuni-
                                                                     ties that are starting to go up for woman-owned small business set-
                                                                     aside.
                                                                        Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you. That’s very encouraging.
                                                                        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                        Chairman CARDIN. We’ll now go to Senator Hirono, who is with
                                                                     us through Webex. I understand she was here when the gavel was
                                                                     brought down, so I thank her for her patience.
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. Don’t let it happen again, Mr. Chairman.




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                                                                        [Laughter.]
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. Thank you very much.
                                                                        Have both of you gotten sole-source contracts?
                                                                        [Pause.]
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. Hello? Can you hear me?
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. Sole source you said?
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. Yes. Have both of you gotten sole-source con-
                                                                     tracts as 8(a)?
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. I have.
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Yes, I have.
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. Both of you. So, how does a company—for ex-
                                                                     ample, you’re just starting out, you’re in an 8(a), you have no track
                                                                     record. How do you qualify? How do you get the attention of SBA
                                                                     or any of the contracting entities if you don’t have a track record
                                                                     as a sole-source provider? I think, Ms. Caldas, you touched on that
                                                                     a little bit. How did you gain the attention of the contracting entity
                                                                     so that they could do a sole-source contract with you when you just
                                                                     started out?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Yes. As I mentioned before, we understood that
                                                                     challenge, so we did not enter the 8(a) program when we qualified.
                                                                     We only needed to be in business for two years when we applied
                                                                     for the program, and we were in our eighth year when we sub-
                                                                     mitted our application. So in the moment when we submitted for
                                                                     the 8(a) program, we already had some experience doing work as
                                                                     a subcontractor that we could pull forward when we were trying to
                                                                     pursue work to demonstrate that we could do that work.
                                                                        It took us several years more to get our—we have gotten three
                                                                     sole-source contracts, one really small with the Defense Innovation
                                                                     Unit of DOD, and two others providing technical assistance over-
                                                                     seas. But at the time that we were pursuing those, we had enough
                                                                     past performance and past experience to demonstrate that we could
                                                                     do the work.
                                                                        It is a little more difficult for new companies entering the 8(a)
                                                                     that don’t have that track record to be able to demonstrate that
                                                                     they can perform the work, so it makes it difficult for them to pur-
                                                                     sue 8(a) sole-source contracts.
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. So is the path you followed to be in getting sub-
                                                                     contracts so that you did have a track record, is that the usual
                                                                     path for 8(a)s who want to obtain sole-source contracts, Ms.
                                                                     Caldas?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. I don’t know if it is the usual path. I think the 8(a)
                                                                     is intended for 8(a) companies to be able to pursue those sole
                                                                     source when they are starting. But the reality is that when you are
                                                                     trying to pursue that work, you need to be able to demonstrate that
                                                                     you can do the work and that you have the capacity and the infra-
                                                                     structure to do the work. So I think it is a big mismatch in what
                                                                     is expected versus reality, and I think a lot of small businesses that
                                                                     join the 8(a) program think, okay, now I have 8(a), I can get a sole-
                                                                     source contract, and then find it difficult, taking several years, to
                                                                     be able to gain the experience that they need to pursue it. So that’s
                                                                     the reality.
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. That makes a lot of sense to me that a small
                                                                     business should have a track record if they hope to compete for a




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                                                                     sole-source contract. It’s probably something that the SBA should
                                                                     inform the 8(a) participants that that’s the reality of things.
                                                                        So how many years are you into the 8(a) program, Ms. Caldas?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Five years. We entered the year in 2016, but just
                                                                     so you can compare, the company is going to be 14 years old in a
                                                                     few months, and we’ve only been in the program for five years.
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. Yes. So I think that you are probably quite
                                                                     unique in how you have very strategically managed your company
                                                                     so that you are able to maximize your participation in the 8(a) pro-
                                                                     gram, so I commend you. And you have obviously grown your busi-
                                                                     ness to 70 employees. When you started, how many employees did
                                                                     you have?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. One, me.
                                                                        [Laughter.]
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. The first year was me, and then I had a second per-
                                                                     son part-time.
                                                                        Senator HIRONO. You should be a mentor. I think you said men-
                                                                     tors would be good.
                                                                        You mentioned the concern about the category management con-
                                                                     tracting model, and I’ve heard from other companies, other minor-
                                                                     ity-owned businesses that are concerned about the category man-
                                                                     agement contracting model because it means that there are fewer
                                                                     contracts to go around, which means fewer opportunities for minor-
                                                                     ity-owned businesses, particularly small businesses, of course. You
                                                                     have expressed some concerns about it. What should we be doing?
                                                                     Should we be getting away from this sort of contracting model?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. I think with the category management and the
                                                                     Best-in-Class, it’s a combination of issues. One, it is really hard to
                                                                     get in as a small business because, again, for you to be able to be
                                                                     successful and have one of those contract vehicles, everything is
                                                                     based on the scoring, and the scoring depends on how many con-
                                                                     tracts you have, what type of certifications you have. And the other
                                                                     thing is that those contracts don’t have a full open enrollment, so
                                                                     they are every five years, a small window for you to try to apply
                                                                     and enter.
                                                                        So a lot of companies are doing, and we were successful just by
                                                                     partnering with a large business. So we as a team, who score high
                                                                     enough to enter—to gain the vehicle. So that’s one thing.
                                                                        I think more agencies need to be educated about what is ex-
                                                                     pected to be done with category management, because what we
                                                                     have personally seen is that we need to meet our category manage-
                                                                     ment goals, and certain requirements that were performed by small
                                                                     businesses are being moved to either the unrestricted pool or
                                                                     they—and we have seen this a couple of times. I don’t know if it’s
                                                                     something that is happening frequently. They release the same re-
                                                                     quirement at the same time for the small business pool and the un-
                                                                     restricted pool, and at that point you are really not competing. It
                                                                     is really just too hard to compete when you know that the large
                                                                     business is also going for the same work.
                                                                        So it is challenging because then a lot of the newer small busi-
                                                                     nesses that don’t have that experience, it’s almost impossible to get
                                                                     into those vehicles. So it’s either facilitating that some small busi-
                                                                     nesses can really be part of it and opening the enrollment so we
                                                                     are not—I mean, we made an effort and we knew we only had one




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                                                                     chance, we have to do it with a large business because if we don’t
                                                                     do it now, we need to wait five more years. And then a lot of the
                                                                     requirements started to be consolidated and bundled. And because
                                                                     they are consolidated and bundled, they bundle a lot of small busi-
                                                                     ness requirements into a large requirement that they then release
                                                                     in the unrestricted pool.
                                                                       So I think it needs to be more visibility and oversight in how
                                                                     these plans are being implemented, because this is just reducing
                                                                     the contracts that are available for small businesses to pursue.
                                                                       Senator HIRONO. Mr. Rubio, do you share that perspective re-
                                                                     garding this kind of model for contracting?
                                                                       Mr. RUBIO. Yes, and I was also—it’s interesting because we had
                                                                     different experiences. I was in the JV also, in the mentorship pro-
                                                                     gram, and that was another lesson learned because there was not
                                                                     a match, and I wish I would have known a lot of things before I
                                                                     got into that. It’s kind of like a marriage. You get married. You see
                                                                     each other’s culture and financials and everything. So that did not
                                                                     work as well.
                                                                       As far as going back to the sole source piece, I just wanted to
                                                                     mention something, that I did have some issues with that, and it
                                                                     was that our clients—the deal with 8(a)s is that you have 8(a)s in
                                                                     specific areas, like I was supporting a very specific client in DOD,
                                                                     the Department of Defense, and they were not familiar with 8(a)s.
                                                                     They had no other 8(a). I was the first 8(a) that showed up, and
                                                                     I actually had a relationship with this client as far as doing other
                                                                     work for them. When it came to the point where we had to do a—
                                                                     we said, hey, let’s go, we’re an 8(a) now, and that’s what happened
                                                                     back in 2015. I got my 8(a) and said, okay, we have an 8(a), and
                                                                     they said we have no idea how to use you like that, let’s just keep
                                                                     doing what we were doing before. And we couldn’t actually grow
                                                                     any business we were doing with them because of that. So edu-
                                                                     cation on the government side definitely was an issue for us, and
                                                                     even for us, because I didn’t know how to tell them until years
                                                                     later, when I learned.
                                                                       So I did not wait, like you did. I should have.
                                                                       Senator HIRONO. Considering that——
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                       Senator HIRONO. Oh, I’m sorry. Considering that all contracting
                                                                     agencies I thought were supposed to have certain goals regarding
                                                                     minority-owned business contracting, the fact that some entities
                                                                     still don’t seem to know that, never heard of 8(a), that’s pretty as-
                                                                     tounding.
                                                                       Mr. Chairman, I think this idea, this concern about the category
                                                                     management contracting model, I hope that we can ask further
                                                                     questions about how that is being implemented and the impact on
                                                                     8(a)s and small businesses.
                                                                       Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
                                                                       Senator Rosen by Webex.
                                                                       Senator ROSEN. Thank you, Chairman Cardin. I appreciate you
                                                                     holding this important hearing on Federal contracting for minority
                                                                     and women-owned businesses.
                                                                       I really want to thank the witnesses here today, too, for your in-
                                                                     sightful testimony, for your hard work to build your business and




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                                                                     mentor others. What I want to say is that 99 percent of businesses
                                                                     in Nevada are small businesses, and so we understand their impor-
                                                                     tance not just to our community and to our families but, of course,
                                                                     to our states and country.
                                                                        Congress has historically worked to enhance the integration of
                                                                     our small businesses in the Federal contracting process. In Fiscal
                                                                     Year 2020, Nevada small businesses received over $500 million in
                                                                     Federal contracting dollars. More than $220 million was awarded
                                                                     to small disadvantaged businesses, minority-owned businesses that
                                                                     are also economically disadvantaged, but $157 million awarded to
                                                                     woman-owned small businesses.
                                                                        So I’m pleased that in recent years the Federal Government has
                                                                     met its goals on small business contracting; but, of course, there’s
                                                                     always room to improve minority- and women-owned businesses in
                                                                     Nevada and across the country.
                                                                        Ms. Caldas, can you tell me what you think we could do to im-
                                                                     prove not just the process but increase opportunities for women-
                                                                     owned businesses and just really increase the awareness that these
                                                                     things exist? And also do you think the resources that you needed
                                                                     were available to you through the process of seeking your opportu-
                                                                     nities? And what might you add, future resources that you think
                                                                     SBA could put in to help women and minorities and others in their
                                                                     quest to get their own small business going?
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Several things regarding the woman-owned small
                                                                     business. I think the process of getting certified should be stream-
                                                                     lined and should be easier. I mentioned in my testimony that we
                                                                     go through the process, for example, 8(a), we have proven that we
                                                                     are a U.S. citizen, that we belong to these groups, and that we
                                                                     have control of the business, and then we need to go through the
                                                                     same process to prove that we are woman-owned, controlled by a
                                                                     woman.
                                                                        So reciprocity between the 8(a) and the WSB. If we submit an
                                                                     application for the 8(a) and I already have proven that I am the
                                                                     sole owner, that you can get the WSB certification without having
                                                                     to go through the process is one thing.
                                                                        I think woman-owned small businesses need to receive some edu-
                                                                     cation in how to market to some of the agencies and have the re-
                                                                     sources available to respond to the requirements that agencies
                                                                     have to at least demonstrate that woman-owned small businesses
                                                                     out there are capable of doing that work.
                                                                        And I think at the same time agencies and government buyers
                                                                     and the contracting officers need to have a better understanding of
                                                                     setting aside work for woman-owned small businesses. Some agen-
                                                                     cies are doing better than others, and I think it’s just a matter of
                                                                     some education and training and understanding.
                                                                        Just playing devil’s advocate, sometimes the buyer needs to buy
                                                                     the services quickly, and they are going to go the fastest and easi-
                                                                     est way to do that. So if they have an ability and they have an un-
                                                                     derstanding of how to tap into the woman-owned small businesses
                                                                     out there, I think it’s just going to benefit both the agencies and
                                                                     also the companies that are owned by women.
                                                                        Senator ROSEN. Thank you. I think you’re right about improving
                                                                     outreach and awareness. That’s always an important factor.




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                                                                        Mr. Rubio, I want to thank you for your service to our country.
                                                                     Of course, in Nevada we’re proud to be home to over 225,000 vet-
                                                                     erans, and one in eight of our small businesses are veteran-owned.
                                                                     We also have one of the largest Latino populations per capita in
                                                                     the U.S., so really part of our small business ecosystem.
                                                                        So what do you think Congress can do to improve Federal Gov-
                                                                     ernment’s contracting numbers for veterans like yourself and being
                                                                     sure that there’s outreach and awareness? What do you think you
                                                                     can add in the short time I have left? Thank you.
                                                                        Mr. RUBIO. Thank you, thank you. It’s basically the same thing.
                                                                     Also with the certification, after going through the 8(a) process, I
                                                                     had to get certified as a WSB, and we had to go through exactly
                                                                     the same process, although you can self-certify. But in order to get
                                                                     that CVE, you had to go through the process.
                                                                        It’s education, going back to the same thing. The programs like
                                                                     VIP and the 8(a) Accelerator are things that we need. You need to
                                                                     get training like that before you get your certification because, like
                                                                     Ms. Caldas mentioned, you get your 8(a) or CVE and you go, okay,
                                                                     I’m ready, and crickets. Nobody comes or calls. You think that the
                                                                     phone is going to be ringing off the hook.
                                                                        And I get the part where we have to do marketing, we have to
                                                                     reach out to clients, but it’s education on both sides, because your
                                                                     clients, the clients you’ve been dealing with, they don’t even know
                                                                     how to use it.
                                                                        Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you. I think this has been really in-
                                                                     formative. Outreach and training on both sides, streamlining, du-
                                                                     plication in the process, that’s going to make it easier for everyone,
                                                                     and then hopefully more effective for small businesses to move for-
                                                                     ward.
                                                                        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                                                        Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
                                                                        You all have really put a lot before us, and we’re going to be tak-
                                                                     ing that into consideration. We did talk about the mentorship pro-
                                                                     grams and the limitations that are there with the way that it has
                                                                     been merged with the Protégé program, so we will be taking a look
                                                                     at that.
                                                                        We haven’t had a chance yet to talk about HUBZones. I under-
                                                                     stand, Ms. Caldas, you did participate in a HUBZone. I don’t know
                                                                     if you have any suggestions on how we could improve that program
                                                                     to make it more effective. We know it’s important, but we do get
                                                                     concerns as to whether that’s being most effectively designed in
                                                                     order to help underserved communities.
                                                                        Ms. CALDAS. Yes. We were HUBZone very briefly. We entered
                                                                     the HUBZone program in 2009. It is very difficult to qualify in the
                                                                     HUBZone and maintain it because of the requirement that 35 per-
                                                                     cent of your employees should also live in a HUBZone, and you
                                                                     cannot dictate where your employees are or where they’re going to
                                                                     move to.
                                                                        And then with the Census of 2010, a lot of companies like mine,
                                                                     zones change, and we lost the certification.
                                                                        So making it easier to maintain with the HUBZone would be one
                                                                     thing to take a look at.
                                                                        Also, make more opportunities available for HUBZone compa-
                                                                     nies. When we were in the HUBZone program, a lot of the require-




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                                                                     ments that were released under that program, we couldn’t find
                                                                     enough technical work aligned with what we were doing that we
                                                                     could pursue. What helped us was to be part of being a subcon-
                                                                     tractor because the large companies had to meet the goals of hav-
                                                                     ing a certain percentage of work contracted to HUBZone. So that’s
                                                                     the only thing that we were able to take advantage of when we had
                                                                     the HUBZone.
                                                                       So looking for opportunities for HUBZone companies that are
                                                                     really good opportunities for the companies to do the work. You
                                                                     don’t find a lot of IT work under HUBZone. I think I saw one a
                                                                     few months ago, and even though we were not HUBZone, I was
                                                                     just so happy to see that something real and tangible was really
                                                                     good work. More opportunities released under the HUBZone, but
                                                                     also facilitate the certification process. I know that there have been
                                                                     some changes lately in the HUBZone, but still the opportunities
                                                                     that are set aside for the HUBZone are very limited.
                                                                       Chairman CARDIN. Thank you.
                                                                       I know that Senator Hickenlooper was attempting to be here. He
                                                                     may have an opportunity to ask questions for the record if they’re
                                                                     asked.
                                                                       I want to thank both of you again for your testimonies. I can as-
                                                                     sure you we’re going to be following up on the points that you have
                                                                     raised, and I think we will have opportunities during this Congress
                                                                     to respond to many of the points that you brought to our com-
                                                                     mittee.
                                                                       So, in the legacy of Parren J. Mitchell, we’re going to be doing
                                                                     everything we can to make sure that the tools available to the SBA
                                                                     are there to serve the underserved communities, minority busi-
                                                                     nesses, woman-owned businesses, veteran-owned businesses, which
                                                                     Congress has intended to make sure it’s carried out to its fullest.
                                                                       And with that, the committee will stand adjourned. Thank you
                                                                     very much.
                                                                       Ms. CALDAS. Thank you.
                                                                       Mr. RUBIO. Thank you, Senator.
                                                                       [Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]




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