Perspectives from Main Street: Raising the Wage (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, February 24, 2021)
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The printed record of a hearing of the House Small Business Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and Regulations, Small Business Committee Document Number 117-004, titled Perspectives from Main Street: Raising the Wage, held February 24, 2021 in the 117th Congress. Opening statements are by Representatives Dean Phillips and Beth Van Duyne. The witnesses are Dr. Heidi Shierholz of the Economic Policy Institute, John Puckett of Punch Pizza, Rebecca Hamilton of W.S. Badger Company and Rachel Greszler of The Heritage Foundation. The appendix holds their prepared statements and additional material for the record, including a Congressional Budget Office item.
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“Perspectives from Main Street: Raising the Wage (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, February 24, 2021).”
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PERSPECTIVES FROM MAIN STREET: RAISING THE
WAGE
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT,
INVESTIGATIONS, AND REGULATIONS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
HEARING HELD
FEBRUARY 24, 2021
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–004
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
43–447 WASHINGTON : 2021
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Dean Phillips .................................................................................................. 1
Hon. Beth Van Duyne ............................................................................................. 3
WITNESSES
Dr. Heidi Shierholz, Senior Economist and Director of Policy, Economic Policy
Institute, Washington, DC .................................................................................. 7
Mr. John Puckett, Co-CEO, Punch Pizza, St. Paul, MN ...................................... 8
Ms. Rebecca Hamilton, Co-CEO, W.S. Badger Company, Gilsum, NH ............... 10
Ms. Rachel Greszler, Research Fellow in Economics, Budget and Entitle-
ments, The Heritage Foundation, Washington, DC .......................................... 12
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Dr. Heidi Shierholz, Senior Economist and Director of Policy, Economic
Policy Institute, Washington, DC ................................................................ 40
Mr. John Puckett, Co-CEO, Punch Pizza, St. Paul, MN ............................... 46
Ms. Rebecca Hamilton, Co-CEO, W.S. Badger Company, Gilsum, NH ....... 48
Ms. Rachel Greszler, Research Fellow in Economics, Budget and Entitle-
ments, The Heritage Foundation, Washington, DC ................................... 52
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
A&P Master Images ......................................................................................... 72
ATR Coalition Letter ........................................................................................ 73
Boyer’s Food Markets Inc. ............................................................................... 77
Casey Waits Testimony .................................................................................... 79
Congressional Budget Office ............................................................................ 80
Council for Citizens Against Government Waste (CCAGW) ......................... 97
Eureka Pizza Co. .............................................................................................. 99
FASTSIGNS ...................................................................................................... 100
Fleet & Farm Supply/Ace Hardware .............................................................. 101
Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association ................................................. 103
FreedomWorks .................................................................................................. 104
Gary Siebert Testimony ................................................................................... 107
International Franchise Association (IFA) ..................................................... 108
Mad Hatter Restaurant & Bakery .................................................................. 110
Maddens Resort ................................................................................................ 111
Mark Klinger Testimony .................................................................................. 112
Marshall Street Bar & Grill and The Union Tavern ..................................... 113
Missouri Farm Bureau Federation ................................................................. 114
National Restaurant Association ..................................................................... 115
NFIB Research Center Study .......................................................................... 117
NFIB Letter ...................................................................................................... 164
Raise the Wage Act of 2021 Coalition Opposition Letter .............................. 166
Rangaire Manufacturing Company, LP .......................................................... 169
Rick Knoebels Testimony ................................................................................. 171
Rohrbach Brewing Co. ...................................................................................... 173
Rosario Longo Testimony ................................................................................. 174
Rosebud Tractor ................................................................................................ 175
Sal and Jerrys Bakery ..................................................................................... 177
SBE Council Letter .......................................................................................... 178
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IV
Page
Additional Material for the Record—Continued
Sergio’s Family Restaurants ............................................................................ 180
Stephanie Figueroa Testimony ........................................................................ 181
54th Street Grill & Bar .................................................................................... 182
Urban Air Adventure Park .............................................................................. 183
U.S. Chamber of Commerce Small Business .................................................. 185
Zanz Mexican Restaurant ................................................................................ 190
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PERSPECTIVES FROM MAIN STREET: RAISING
THE WAGE
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2021
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT,
INVESTIGATIONS, AND REGULATIONS,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:01 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Dean Phillips [chair-
man of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Phillips, Craig, Chu, Evans, Davids,
Van Duyne, Hagedorn, Meuser, Donalds, and Fitzgerald.
Also Present: Representatives Velázquez, Tenney, Luetkemeyer,
Bourdeaux, and Young Kim.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Good morning, everybody. I want to call
the meeting to order and thank everybody for joining us today. I
also want to thank our witnesses in particular for taking time out
of their busy schedules to be with us.
First, I want to go over some important requirements, most of
which you already know. But beginning by saying that the stand-
ing House and Committee Rules and Practices will continue to
apply during hybrid proceedings.
All members are reminded that they are expected to adhere to
these standing rules, including decorum. House regulations require
members to be visible through a video connection throughout the
proceeding, so please keep your cameras on. Also, please remember
to remain muted until you are recognized so that we can minimize
background noise. If you have to participate in another meeting,
please exit this one and log in later.
In the event that a member encounters technical issues that pre-
vent them from being recognized for their questioning, I will simply
move to the next available member of the same party and I will
recognize that member at the next appropriate time slot provided
that they have returned to the proceeding.
For those members physically present in the Committee room
today, we will also be following the health and safety guidelines
issued by the attending physician. That includes social distancing
and especially the use of masks. Members and staff are expected
to wear masks at all times while in the hearing room, and I thank
you in advance for your commitment to a safe environment to all
here today.
It is an honor to Chair this Subcommittee and to provide a plat-
form for listening to and supporting small businesses across Amer-
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ica. Though our members may disagree on occasion on matters of
policy, I want to make it clear that we work for you, the small busi-
ness owners present today, and the small business owners across
the country pursuing the American Dream.
I look forward to conducting this hearing and this year’s work in
a productive and bipartisan manner with Ranking Member Van
Duyne.
Since the implementation of the New Deal in the 1930s, Con-
gress has been tasked with determining from our collective belief
of what is fair and what is right, a standard of living under which
no working American citizen should fall. An essential part of this
floor is the minimum wage, which was intended to ensure that the
least advantaged workers in America can provide for themselves,
let alone for their families. But over the past decades, this floor has
significantly eroded in value despite a modest increase to $7.25 per
hour in 2009.
Meanwhile, Washington is caught in partisan gridlock and un-
able to provide the leadership so desperately needed to resolve the
issue despite overwhelming public support for addressing it. It is
my core belief that all working Americans who live on the wages
that they earn be paid one on which they can survive. It is not just
good for humanity, it is good for our economy because consumption
is the engine of our economy and money in people’s pockets is its
fuel.
Unfortunately, the current minimum wage falls well below the
poverty line for a family of two or more. I cannot imagine that any-
body in this room or participating today would say that it is fair
and just for any American relying on a full-time wage to survive
to earn only $15,000 per year. That cannot make rent. That cannot
pay for food. It cannot pay for healthcare. It cannot pay for
childcare, and it surely cannot pay for education in any region of
our country.
But, as I said during our markup just 2 weeks ago, I am troubled
that the Raise the Wage Act was included in this COVID relief
package without more opportunities for small business voices to be
heard and thoughtful members of Congress on both sides of the
aisle to offer constructive feedback and amendments.
And that is why we were here today, my friends. I am certain
that all of us in this room have heard from small businesses and
hard-working people in our districts about the impacts, both the
positive impacts and the negative impacts that this policy change
would have.
In my office, we heard from Ken, the owner of the original Pan-
cake House in Plymouth, Minnesota, one of my favorite joints. Like
so many businesses which rely on public gathering to succeed, he
is barely hanging on. His restaurant, like all restaurants, runs on
thin margins during even the best of times and Ken is deeply con-
cerned that a $15 minimum wage will mean that he has to cut jobs
if he hopes to stay open.
I take these concerns seriously, and they are guiding how we will
conduct this hearing today. However, we cannot ignore the benefits
that our economy would reap from raising the minimum wage. We
often hear from small firms how hard it is to attract and retain
skilled workers, and experts say that this policy could help. Studies
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also suggest it can make workers more productive and boost mo-
rale.
According to the CBO, the policy at it is written would likely
raise wages for 27 million Americans, raise almost 1 million out of
poverty, and increase the aggregate wages for low wage workers in
American by over $300 billion over the next decade. These newly
empowered workers will live in turn to support local businesses
and our entire economy.
It is also essential that we address this through a racial and gen-
der equity lens. Women and minorities would disproportionately
benefit from a $15 minimum wage, which would close pay gaps
based on both race and gender.
Unfortunately, the same CBO study also projects that this policy
as it is written could cost up to 1.4 million American jobs, and in-
tuition tell us it would also result in the loss of a number of small
businesses, both of which are consequences which I find as unac-
ceptable as they are preventable.
It is our duty on this Committee to listen to the voices of small
businesses and support them accordingly. And while we may dis-
agree on whether to increase the minimum wage or by how much
or in what manner, I hope and I expect that we will come together
for a cordial, productive, and even provocative hearing that will
serve the best interests of small businesses, their employees, and
our communities.
Lastly, and most importantly, I ask that we use our time today
to identify ways in which we can mitigate the negative impacts of
such a policy while maximizing the positive impacts of raising
wages for millions of Americans. As I said 2 weeks ago and I will
say it again right now, livable wages, thriving businesses, and job
growth are not mutually exclusive options. So let’s work together
to achieve that trifecta beginning with today’s hearing.
And with that, I will yield to the Ranking Member, Ms. Van
Duyne for her opening statement.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
Before I begin, I would like to thank Ranking Member Luetke-
meyer and my colleagues on the Subcommittee for the opportunity
to serve as Ranking Member on the Subcommittee of Oversight, In-
vestigations, and Regulations, and I look forward to working with
each and every one of you in this capacity.
Small businesses shuttered, American families struggling to pay
their rent, livelihoods destroyed. These are the devastating con-
sequences we witnessed as a result of this pandemic and along
with it forced lockdowns all across the country. Fortunately, in my
state of Texas, we were able to open back up quickly, giving mil-
lions of small business owners the opportunity to keep their doors
open and to fight to protect the businesses that they have invested
their lives in.
But what we are here to discuss today, a Federal, nationwide
mandate to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour will put us
right back to where we were months ago—American jobs destroyed,
small businesses forced to close their doors, and life savings gone
to waste. I cannot think of anything more devastating in a time
when our small businesses are barely getting back on their feet.
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And Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for your comments on
wanting to take this slower, getting as much input from small busi-
nesses that will affect as possible, I really appreciate that. And you
had actually quoted from the Congressional Budget Office, the non-
partisan Congressional Budget Office that estimated that an in-
crease in the minimum wage to $15 an hour would lead to a loss
of 1.4 million jobs by 2025. And of those 1.4 million workers dis-
placed, the CBO estimated that 700,000, half of those workers,
would fall out of the labor force entirely.
And make no mistake, this top down, ‘‘one size fits all’’ mandate
will impact our small businesses the most. These ‘‘mom and pop’’
shops already operate on thin margins. The local Main Street res-
taurants, hardware stores, hair salons, and florists are the heart-
beat of our communities, and they simply cannot absorb this man-
dated increase by any way.
And not to mention a wage mandate takes away any variation
in discretion that an entrepreneur has to scale his or her business
to the area in which it operates. Whether that is in my home state
of Texas or the Chairman’s home state of Minnesota, why should
a waitress at a busy restaurant in the heart of New York City
where the average rent for a one-bedroom apartment is $2,475 a
month be forced to make the exact same amount as a waitress in
Billings, Montana, where the average rent for a one-bedroom apart-
ment is $678 a month?
The Federal government does not and cannot know what is best
for each town across America, and this ‘‘one size fits all’’ mandate
fails to recognize the diversity and uniqueness of our townships,
towns, cities, and metropolitan communities.
What I cannot seem to wrap my head around is the American
workers who will be impacted the most by this reckless policy. My
colleagues who support this proposal claim this will help our lower
to middle class, our single moms. And as a single mother myself
who was a waitress back in the day, I sit here wondering what
these single moms will do when the local restaurant or hair salon
where they work is forced to close their doors because they simply
cannot pay their employees $15 an hour. Or when businesses have
to choose between shutting down or replacing their workers with
automation.
As one of my colleagues across the aisle said over the weekend,
we do not want those businesses. That is his message to our ‘‘mom
and pop’’ shops struggling to keep their doors open right now—if
you cannot afford to $15 an hour, we do not want you. Let that
sink in for a minute.
After being selected to serve on this Committee, I was eager to
sit down with local business owners across North Texas to hear
firsthand what is working and what is not working. Where they
need government to get out of the way. And they were all crystal
clear. Increasing the minimum wage will have a disastrous impact
on their business. In fact, many were confident they would have to
close their doors immediately.
And what does that mean for American workers? From young
workers to single moms, our working families will be hit hardest
by this policy.
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And do not just take my word for it. Over the last few weeks,
our Committee has received testimony from small business owners
all across the country explaining how this Federal mandate would
decimate their businesses and their livelihoods along with it.
And I would like to ask for unanimous consent to be able to enter
these statements into the congressional record.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
I would also like to take a moment to share testimony we re-
ceived from Ian MacLean, president and owner of Highland Land-
scaping in my district of Southlake, Texas, and the Chair of the
U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Small Business Council. Here is what
he had to say about how legislation that would increase the Fed-
eral minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $15 per hour would af-
fect his business. Before we started hearing about Congress’s plan
to raise the Federal minimum wage, we had begun exploring solu-
tions to growing wages in our industry such as robotic mowing sys-
tems and purchasing more machinery to do more of the labor work
on the construction side. In order to mitigate the effects of a min-
imum wage hike, we would fast-track those solutions and eliminate
most of our entry-level and less-skilled labor positions. Unfortu-
nately, this would eliminate our ability to provide youth jobs,
entry-level jobs, and summer jobs. And as a small business owner,
I take great pride in creating and sustaining jobs for people who
can then provide for their families. I believe most small business
owners do as well. During the pandemic, I was able to create new
jobs. With news of a potential wage hike, I am now making prep-
arations to move in the opposite direction. Small business is the
biggest job creator in the United States and the driving force of our
economy. A wage hike to $15 per hour would cause small business
owners like me to not only stop creating jobs but to eliminate jobs.’’
Mr. Chairman, I truly believe each and every one of us here,
from our colleagues to our witnesses to our small business owners,
want the same thing. We want to see our small businesses make
it out of this pandemic. We want to see working families lifted up.
And we want to advance policies that will give every American a
shot at living their American Dream. I look forward to finding
ways to work across the aisle to accomplish these goals, but a ‘‘one
size fits all’’ minimum wage mandate is not the answer.
I thank all of the witnesses for joining us today, and I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Van Duyne.
And I would like to take a moment before we begin to explain
how this hearing will proceed. Each witness will have 5 minutes
to provide a statement, and each Committee member will have 5
minutes for questions. Please ensure that your microphone is on
when you begin speaking and that you return to mute when you
are finished.
With that, I will begin by introducing our witnesses.
Our first today is Dr. Heidi Shierholz, senior economist and di-
rector of Policy at the Economic Policy Institute. From 2014 to
2017, she served the Obama administration as the chief economist
at the Department of Labor where she and other department lead-
ers worked to develop and execute initiatives to boost workers’
rights, wages, and benefits. Her research and insights are routinely
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used to shape policy proposals and inform news coverage in many
broadcasts, radio, print, and online news outlets. She received her
M.A. and PhD in Economics from the University of Michigan, and
her policy focuses include labor policy, wage inequality, unemploy-
ment insurance, minimum wage, and many others.
So a heartfelt welcome to Dr. Shierholz, and we look forward to
your testimony today.
Our next witness is John Puckett, co-owner and CEO of Punch
Neapolitan Pizza, an 11-store restaurant company headquartered
in St. Paul, Minnesota that recently celebrated its 25th year in
business. John has always been a fierce advocate for investing in
his own employees and creating career path opportunities for ev-
erybody. In 2014, Punch was recognized by President Obama in the
State of the Union Address for paying starting wages significantly
above the industry average. Prior to Punch, John cofounded and
grew Caribou Coffee into a significant retail brand across the coun-
try. He has an MBA from the Tuck School of Business and a BA
from Dartmouth University.
Thank you, John, for being here today, and I look forward to
your testimony as well.
Our third witness today is Ms. Rebecca Hamilton, a second gen-
eration owner and co-CEO at Badger, a natural and organic per-
sonal care manufacturer known for its unique company philosophy,
pioneering family friendly benefits, and B Corp community engage-
ment. In addition to her role as co-CEO, she has spoken at the
White House, addressed the UN Convention on Biological Diver-
sity, and testified before Congress on behalf of safer cosmetics. Re-
cently, she was appointed to the National Women’s Business Coun-
cil, a nonpartisan Federal advisory Committee, and we thank you,
too, Rebecca, for being here and look forward to your testimony.
With that I will yield to the Ranking Member to introduce our
fourth and final witness.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
Our next witness is Rachel Greszler. Ms. Greszler is a research
fellow in Economics, Budget, and Entitlements at the Grover M.
Hermann Center for the Federal Budget at the Heritage Founda-
tion. Since joining the staff at the Heritage Foundation in 2013,
Ms. Greszler has concentrated her research and findings on numer-
ous areas of labor, Social Security, pension, and employment poli-
cies. Given her extensive knowledge and research, she has also
been a frequent witness on Capitol Hill providing testimony on
many of these topics. Her latest research focuses on the minimum
wage and its impact on childcare costs. Prior to joining the Herit-
age Foundation, Ms. Greszler was on staff at the Joint Economic
Committee.
Ms. Greszler, welcome back to Capitol Hill. We appreciate you
and the other witnesses for joining us today as we explore this
critically important topic and we look forward to your testimony.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Van Duyne.
And we will begin with Dr. Shierholz. You are recognized for 5
minutes for your opening statement.
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STATEMENTS OF DR. HEIDI SHIERHOLZ, SENIOR ECONOMIST
AND DIRECTOR OF POLICY, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE;
JOHN PUCKETT, CO-CEO, PUNCH PIZZA; REBECCA HAM-
ILTON, CO-CEO, W.S. BADGER COMPANY; RACHEL GRESZLER,
RESEARCH FELLOW IN ECONOMICS, BUDGET AND ENTITLE-
MENTS, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION
STATEMENT OF HEIDI SHIERHOLZ
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Thank you. Chairman Phillips, Ranking Mem-
ber Van Duyne, and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for
the opportunity to testify on the importance of increasing the min-
imum wage to $15 an hour by 2025.
I want to start by talking about the well-documented, enormous
benefits of a $15 minimum wage. My colleagues at EPI have esti-
mated that increasing the minimum wage to $15 in 2025 will gen-
erate $107 billion in higher wages for low-wage workers. And
CBO’s recent analysis shows that $15 in 2025 will make low-in-
come people as a group unambiguously better off. The total income
of low-income people would rise, income inequality would shrink,
and nearly a million people will be pulled out of poverty. And from
a prior CBO analysis, we know that roughly half of those pulled
out of poverty by a $15 minimum wage will be children.
Research also shows that by providing families with higher in-
comes, minimum wage increases have improved infant health, they
have reduced child abuse, and they have reduced teen pregnancy.
And then particularly important in this moment, essential and
frontline workers make up the majority of those who would benefit
from a $15 minimum wage. More than a third of those working in
residential or nursing care facilities would see their pay increase.
Forty-two percent of workers in grocery stores would see a raise.
More than four in 10 janitors and housekeeping cleaners would
benefit. Ten million workers in healthcare, education, construction,
and manufacturing would see a raise.
And $15 in 2025 would not just reduce overall income inequality;
it will reduce inequality by race and gender as well. So due to
things like occupational segregation, discrimination, and other im-
pacts of structural racism and sexism, women and Black and His-
panic men are more concentrated in low-wage jobs and would see
disproportionate gains from this increase.
Raising the minimum wage is long overdue. Workers today who
are paid the current Federal minimum wage are paid more than
30 percent less in inflation-adjusted terms than their counterparts
were paid 53 years ago. And this is despite the fact that the econo-
my’s capacity to deliver higher wages, which is measured by labor
productivity, that capacity more than doubled over that period.
Had the minimum wage kept pace with productivity growth since
1968, it would be over $23 in 2025. So a $15 minimum wage in
2025 simply means that low-wage workers are able to share in a
small portion of the country’s growth over the last half century.
Another key thing to note is that we can raise the minimum
wage to $15 in 2025 with little to no job loss. Minimum wages are
one of the most well-studied topis in economics, and although there
sometimes appears to be a great deal of controversy about the size
of employment effects on the minimum wage, the weight of the evi-
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dence clearly shows that minimum wage increases have worked ex-
actly as intended by raising wages without big, negative con-
sequences. So comprehensive reviews of the academic literature on
the employment effects of minimum wage increases have found
that the typical academic study of the employment effect of min-
imum wage increases finds little to no impact on employment. And
relevant, for the increase that we are talking about now, research
also shows that the highest Federal minimum wages the U.S. has
ever experienced, the minimum wages of the late 1960s, they also
significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-
wage workers.
So that brings up the question, how is this possible? How can
minimum wages be raised without causing employers to have to lay
off workers? And I will list a couple of reasons here.
For one, businesses find that raising wages increases produc-
tivity. It improves morale and reduces turnover. Workers with
more income have less chaos in their lives. They are more likely
to have access to reliable transportation to work, to steady
childcare, and to healthcare, and all of those things. Reduce absen-
teeism and turnover. Turnover is hugely expensive for firms. Re-
search finds that a typical cost of turnover is 20 percent of the posi-
tion’s annual salary. So a reduction in turnover and an increase in
productivity help businesses recoup some of the increased costs of
the higher wages.
And another key thing is that businesses also see an increase in
demand for their goods and services when the minimum wage goes
up. Low-wage workers are those who are the most spending con-
strained. They cannot buy all the things they need. So when you
raise the minimum wage, you are getting money into the hands of
people who are the most likely to have no choice but to spend it,
and that increases demand which is very good for business.
And I will leave it there for now and just end by saying that the
failure to adequately raise the minimum wage has denied workers
significant improvements in their standard of living. It has in-
creased poverty and inequality. By raising the Federal minimum
wage to $15 by 2025, we will finally deliver a much-needed boost
to this country’s lowest paid workers.
And I look very forward to answering any questions that you
may have.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Dr. Shierholz.
Mr. Puckett, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your open-
ing statement.
STATEMENT OF JOHN PUCKETT
Mr. PUCKETT. Thank you, Chairman Phillips. And good morn-
ing from sunny and warm Minneapolis, Minnesota this morning.
We appreciate the chance to talk about what our company has
learned from paying our employees more.
I am John Puckett. I am the co-owner of Punch. We are a 25-
year-old business located in the Twin Cities in Minnesota. We em-
ploy almost 300 people at our company and we operate 11 pizze-
rias. Prior to joining Punch and helping grow that company, my
wife and I started Caribou Coffee, which is today the second largest
coffee retailer in the country, and I think of significance, we started
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Caribou Coffee with an SBA loan 30 years ago. So thank you 30
years later for the support of Congress to help small businesses.
Everybody knows how competitive the pizza industry is. It may
be the most competitive part of the restaurant business. And every-
body thinks that is going to survive that their pizza is the best.
Our pizza is made in a 1,000 degree wood-burning ovens. Our top-
pings melt in the oven—fresh mozzarella, crushed tomatoes, olive
oil, sea salt. We think our pizza cannot be beat.
But our secret ingredient is our people, our fantastic employees.
And when we ask our customers why they come back to Punch,
they tell us two things. They say it is the quality of your food, but
very closely or tied with that answer is it is our engaged employ-
ees, our friendly employees. And we think when you walk into a
Punch store versus our competition, you can tell our employees like
what they are doing and they feel a part of something that they
are proud of.
Part of our strategy with people is to pay our employees more.
As you mentioned, we were featured in the State of the Union Ad-
dress in 2014 for paying our employees more, and today our aver-
age starting wage is $13 an hour and our average employee earns
$15 an hour, and this excludes management, and earns an addi-
tional $5 an hour in tips. And we are really in the fast food, quick
service industry. So that is a remarkable number when you add
those two together. Our average hourly employee earns over $20 an
hour at Punch Pizza. And we think it is one of the largest, if not
the largest in the quick service industry.
Another key part of our people strategy, it is not just what they
earn when they start. If we could, we would have everyone move
on beyond starting wages. We offer several different skill levels and
increased pay and make training and development a priority of our
business. In addition, we promote most of our managers from our
hourly workforce, and these are jobs that start at over $50,000 a
year and grow up to $100,000 a year. And I think it is important
to note that we have zero educational or accreditation requirements
for these manager positions.
Our turnover is significantly better than the industry average
and pay is a part of it, but it is not all part of it. Advancement op-
portunities are important. Employees need to believe in the leader-
ship of their store and of the company and of the mission of the
company, and we find that providing the best quality tools to do
the job and having excellent work processes lead to higher reten-
tion as well as pay.
This strategy does come at a cost. We earn less money than the
companies that we study that are publicly traded, that we can
track their labor expense. So we are giving up profit margin in the
short and near term, we think for our longer term strategy of hav-
ing our business both survive and thrive in the future from having
better employees and having more engaged employees.
To close, I just want to talk about the biggest challenge that
small businesses like Punch face. We reconfigured our operations
to have socially distanced and keep our employees safe. And we are
very proud that we have had zero workplace infections. But that
has come at a cost to sales. We lost over $1 million last year and
we are losing tens of thousands of dollars a month this winter. And
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we expect to lose that until we are able to safely reopen our dining
rooms. We are hopeful given the increased rate of vaccinations that
the restaurant business and Punch will return to more normalcy
later this spring and summer, but it has been a challenge like no
business has ever faced in the restaurant industry in our lifetime.
To close, I would like to thank you all for the incredible lifeline
Congress gave small businesses like Punch with the Paycheck Pro-
tection Program. There is not a doubt in my mind that Punch, nor
most small, independent restaurants could have survived without
that lifeline. So all of our employees greatly appreciate that.
And I look forward to answering any questions you have later in
the meeting.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Puckett.
And now, Ms. Hamilton, you are recognized for 5 minutes for
your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF REBECCA HAMILTON
Ms. HAMILTON. Thank you, Chairman Phillips and distin-
guished members of the House Subcommittee on Oversight, Inves-
tigations, and Regulations for this opportunity to testify in support
of raising the Federal minimum wage.
My name is Rebecca Hamilton, and I am the co-CEO and family
owner of the W.S. Badger Company, a small cosmetic and drug
manufacturer located in rural New Hampshire. I also serve on the
National Women’s Business Council, a nonpartisan Federal advi-
sory committee advocating for women-owned businesses.
Badger was founded in 1995 in our family kitchen by my car-
penter father who created a simple balm to soothe his cracked
hands. Today, my sister and I lead the company alongside our
mother, where we employ 90 people and manufacture over 100
body care products and sunscreens which are sold throughout the
United States and in 26 countries worldwide.
Badger has been recognized by Forbes as a leading small com-
pany and as the New Hampshire Business of the Year.
Throughout our 25-year history, fair pay has helped our business
to succeed and grow. Our lowest starting wage is $15 per hour. We
also provide a range of benefits from day one, and I think that our
fair pay business model has helped us to attract and retain excel-
lent staff, while supporting the health of our community and keep-
ing us successful into second generation family ownership, even as
many other businesses in our region have struggled.
New Hampshire is unique, and that is one of the only states in
New England still following the current Federal minimum wage of
$7.25 per hour. For businesses, this low wage floor makes it harder
to hire and retain employees, build our customer base, and grow.
Furthermore, it undermines regional economic development.
We participated in a working group in New Hampshire of a num-
ber of businesses and healthcare providers examining the relation-
ship between our region’s low wage floor and poor health outcomes.
We found that an hourly age below $15 was inadequate to main-
tain a safe and decent standard of living in our region, and that
is in a rural region, and that it could not sufficiently meet a per-
son’s food, housing, transportation, and healthcare needs.
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New Hampshire has struggled to attract and retain a young
workforce. A 2018 survey found that younger workers see New
Hampshire as lacking in job career opportunities. Several years ago
we also participated in a series of workforce development meetings
where business owners, educators, researchers, and local govern-
ment officials examined a further concern with attracting a more
qualified and talented workforce. And what we found was inter-
esting. This is something that stood out to me is that Badger stood
apart from many of these other businesses in our region because
we did not struggle with developing our workforce. Our approach
to paying a base wage of $15 an hour, combined with compelling
benefits set us in a much stronger economic position. This approach
has enabled us to spend virtually zero dollars on recruitment while
retaining an engaged and committed workforce for the past 25
years.
Recruiting and training a new employee involves thousands of
dollars and dozens of hours in nonproductive costs. It has been esti-
mated that turnover costs are about 20 percent of an annual salary
or higher. By retaining experienced staff, we see increased produc-
tivity, less waste, and fewer errors, which is very important in a
manufacturing facility. This further saves us considerable money
and time. The more we can retain already trained staff, the more
money we save, the more reliable our staff, the better our produc-
tivity. The success of our business is directly tied to the dedication
of our staff.
Good pay and benefits also boost morale. When we treat our em-
ployees well, they care more about our business success. In a recent
employee engagement survey conducted by the Employee Engage-
ment Group, 100 percent of employees surveyed at Badger felt that
their managers respected their work-life balance and 82 percent re-
ported feeling highly engaged. What we have seen is that having
engaged in motivated staff has helped us to innovate for success in
the long run.
Our experience in New Hampshire is an excellent case study for
how low wages do not help small businesses in regions compete.
Rather, low wages hold back businesses and economic growth and
hamper employee and community health and well-being. Raising
the minimum wage is vital to help us recover from the pandemic
and build a stronger economy.
In our consumer-driven economy, businesses like mine depend on
customers who can afford our products and services. Raising the
minimum wage will put more money in the hands of working peo-
ple who will spend it at businesses in New Hampshire and across
the country. Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025
will provide a more solid-level playing field for small and large
companies. It will help small businesses succeed, and it is an in-
vestment in our Nation’s workforce that will pay in great dividends
now and in the future.
Thank you for your time.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Hamilton.
And Ms. Greszler, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your
opening statement.
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STATEMENT OF RACHEL GRESZLER
Ms. GRESZLER. Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for
the opportunity to testify today.
As someone who started out my career earning the minimum
wage washing dishes and making pizzas and then the sub-min-
imum wage waiting tables, I can attest to the value, especially for
young workers, of minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage jobs are
steppingstones, not careers, and that is why young workers fill
most minimum wage jobs. $7.25 an hour is not sufficient to support
a family, but fortunately, single parents earning the minimum
wage make up only 0.1 percent of all workers, and in that case, the
Earned Income Tax Credit brings the true minimum to about $10
per hour.
I think everyone here agrees that rising incomes are a great
thing, especially for low-income workers. But lawmakers cannot
create higher income; they can only redistribute it. And despite
pretty clear evidence and basic laws of economics, there has been
debate over whether a $15 minimum wage would cost jobs or have
negative impacts. Those economic studies can be complicated, but
for anyone who doubts that doubling the minimum wage will cause
substantial disruption and harm, consider what would happen if
your mortgage payment or rent were to double. That would likely
require a lot of changes, and sometimes those changes end up hurt-
ing the people they are aiming to help.
For example, Mae Martinez’s husband got a $4 per hour raise
but then her family lost $2,200 per month in childcare subsidies,
forcing Ms. Martinez to stop her daytime college classes and stay
at home with her kids.
Families without subsidies would also be hurt. I estimate that a
$15 per hour minimum wage would increase the cost of childcare
by 21 percent on average across the U.S., with 30 percent or great-
er increases in 10 states. This can make childcare unaffordable for
millions of families, especially those in low-cost areas.
And this is one example of why a ‘‘one size fits all’’ national min-
imum wage is unjust. It is one thing if high-cost areas like D.C.
or Seattle want to hike their minimum wages. At least then work-
ers can go outside the city as some have had to do. But what works
in D.C. is unlikely to work in D’Iberville, Mississippi. In fact, $15
in Mississippi would be like a nearly $36 minimum wage in D.C.
I would like to now share some of the voice of Main Street em-
ployers who have aptly explained the unintended consequences of
a $15 minimum wage. Bryn Hornsby is an Air Force veteran who
owns two nursing homes in rural Mississippi. For him, a $15 min-
imum wage would require substantial, but unlikely increases in
Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements. And even so, then their
private customers cannot afford to pay any higher rates. As Mr.
Hornsby said, ‘‘COVID has already brought us to our knees finan-
cially. Any increase in the minimum wage would be a death knell
for us and many other small nursing home operators.’’
Gary Armstrong co-owns seven frozen yogurt shops across three
states and he enjoys providing entry-level jobs for teenagers. He
says, ‘‘We see ourselves as mentors in basic business operations
and customer service skills.’’ But Mr. Armstrong said that any sig-
nificant minimum wage increase would cause them to eliminate
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many of those jobs and raise prices in an attempt to keep their
doors open.
Susannah Koteen owns Lido Harlem and Bixi Harlem res-
taurants in New York City. Ms. Koteen explains, ‘‘The hospitality
industry is one of the few careers left that one can make a good
living and move up quickly without a college education.’’ Think of
the millions of jobs that are involved in this business from front of
the house, in the kitchen, to farms, delivery drivers, sanitation
companies, food and beverage distributors. Ms. Koteen has already
had to cut hours and jobs because of New York’s hike in the tipped
minimum wage to $10 per hour, and she said that a $15 per hour
minimum would force many small and independently-owned busi-
nesses to close their doors or completely change the way they do
business.
Betsy LeRoy owns Pizza by Elizabeths in Delaware, and she
served and staunchly supports President Biden. She explains, ‘‘It
would be difficult to absorb any increase in labor costs right now,
much less the steep increase Mr. Biden has proposed. Even in good
times, our profit margins were low. Today, our profit margins are
nonexistent, as is our ability to increase prices.’’ She said a $15
minimum wage would be a death knell to her industry and she
asked President Biden to ‘‘save my restaurant from the good inten-
tions of progressive policymakers.’’
These examples show that policymakers cannot mandate higher
wages into existence without hurting many of the people they want
to help. But there are better ways to help workers achieve higher
incomes without hurting others, such as expanding alternative edu-
cation opportunities, like apprenticeships, reforming occupational
licensing laws so that it is easier and less costly for workers to use
their talents to earn an income, and by protecting workers’ rights
to contract and earn income through flexible and independent jobs.
Thank you.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Greszler. And thank you
to all our witnesses. We appreciate everything you have shared
with us and look forward to a thoughtful and productive hearing.
I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
Dr. Shierholz, I will start with you. A report published by your
colleagues at the Economic Policy Institute in January of last year,
2020, argued that policy discussions often treat the Earned Income
Tax Credit (EITC) expansion and minimum wage increases as al-
ternatives of which we should simply choose just one. But in re-
ality, of course, the paper argues also that ‘‘the two policies are
complementary and may be more effective in combination than ei-
ther is on its own.’’
So before I move on, I would like to ask for unanimous consent
to insert this report from EPI into the Committee record.
Without objection, the letter will be inserted.
So my question, Dr. Shierholz is, please speak to how tax provi-
sions like the EITC and the Payroll Tax Credit can, and perhaps
should be used to balance the burden placed on small businesses
that would result from higher wages.
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. So this is a really important topic. For exam-
ple, the EITC and strong minimum wages are often presented as
being in opposition but they are absolutely companion pieces. The
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EITC in particular is just an incredibly important program, but one
fundamental issue with it is that because workers get the EITC,
they will actually accept lower based wages from employers. And
this means employers actually capture a meaningful chunk of ex-
penditures on the EITC. So a strong minimum wage is hugely im-
portant in this context because it limits the amount of EITC ex-
penditures that employers can capture. So it is just these two
pieces go hand in hand. At this point it is definitely a both/and. We
should both increase the EITC and increase minimum wages to $15
in 2025.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Okay, thank you.
I also want to follow up with Ms. Greszler. In your written testi-
mony, you discuss how the EITC essentially ensures that parents
do not earn a true minimum wage and that gains from the EITC
would phase out as workers earn more. So could you expand a little
bit on how those two notions, the two policies would interact and
what conditions in the labor market would need to be present to
maximize the EITC’s usefulness and describe how it might be
modified to boost the economic security of low wage workers?
Ms. GRESZLER. Yeah, I think this is an example where we have
these good policy aims but then there are consequences to them as
well. And so the consequence with the Earned Income Tax Credit
is, of course, that it has to phase out eventually over time. And
when you are phasing out, that is a lower rate that individuals are
earning. And when you talk about increasing the minimum wage,
that is going to impact a fair number of single parents who are
earning lower wages. Even if it is above the $7.25, this could poten-
tially push them into the phaseout zone of the Earned Income Tax
Credit. And whereas they might have been getting a 35 or 40 per-
cent subsidy on their wages previously, now they would be getting
21 percent lower than their actual stated wage because of that
phaseout. And so it is tricky here to find the right balance between
those things. But I think that the point is that we do have a pro-
gram that is specifically aimed at working parents, and that is dif-
ferent than the minimum wage which affects everybody, including
teenagers and the people who need to get their foot into the door.
And that is kind of the basis here is that the minimum wage needs
to be the bottom rungs on the career ladder so that people can step
in and they can climb their way up. And we do not want to cut
those off for tens of millions of Americans.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Okay, thank you.
I have got about a minute left. Mr. Puckett, one area that I think
we have failed to investigate and consider much is how a policy
like this will surely help millions, tens of millions of Americans at
the lowest wage scale. But how would it affect an entity like Punch
Pizza with 300 people, I think you mentioned seven tiers of pay.
How would this increase ultimately affect the entire wage inflation
issue, if you will, at a company like Punch?
Mr. PUCKETT. Thank you, Chairman Phillips. That is a good
question. And we are really experiencing that today. As you prob-
ably know, about half our stores are in Minneapolis-St. Paul mar-
kets and both of those markets will be going to $15 an hour in the
next 18 to 30 months. And we do offer a significant boost to wage
above our starting wage. And thus far, we have handled that and
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encouraged that increase in our employee skills. But it is a signifi-
cant inflation. Our total labor cost is about 40 percent of sales.
The flip side is we think advancement and giving our employees
a chance to build a career. The alternative to that is not very good.
A job with no career or no advancement. So we are trying to figure
it out. And we look forward to having customers in our dining
rooms and business restored so we can get back to more normalcy.
But it is definitely a challenge. And as anything at Punch, we have
a saying on our wall, ‘‘Figure it out.’’ We are going to figure it out.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Here, here. Thank you, Mr. Puckett.
My time has expired, so now I will turn it to the Ranking Mem-
ber, Ms. Van Duyne for 5 minutes.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Greszler, can you talk to us a little bit about the second and
third layer effects of price increases due to an increase in the min-
imum wage?
Ms. GRESZLER. Certainly. So when employers have choices of
how to respond to these higher wage increases, one of the most nat-
ural ones is to raise prices. And so there are some industries where
they will be able to raise their prices—grocery stores, restaurants.
The Heritage Foundation estimated that a $15 per hour minimum
wage would increase prices at fast food restaurants by 38 percent.
But then there are also other industries that cannot raise their
prices. Childcare is one of those. It is highly regulated. There are
very strict child-to-teacher ratios, square footage-to-child ratios.
And there is really no room to reduce costs through labor, so they
would have to strictly increase their prices. But we already know
that childcare is extremely costly, even unaffordable to millions of
families, and I have estimated that just raising the minimum wage
to $15 per hour would increase the cost of childcare by 21 percent
across the U.S. And as I said, 10 states would have 30 percent or
larger increases. So we are talking about in some states families
would face an extra $6,000 per year for two children to attend
childcare. And of course, this leads to them having to make family
decisions. One worker might need to stay home. Somebody might
need to make more so that they can pay for childcare and then
they are spending less time with their children. So all of these
things just kind of spiral out of control.
And I think one other second order is that we are looking at the
immediate job losses and thinking of them. You know, 1.4 million,
2.7 million, whatever it is, but you are talking about a lot of young
workers who do not have an opportunity to get their foot in the
door. And studies have shown that teens who are exposed to higher
minimum wages have lower earnings in the future. And those who
actually work and are employed in minimum wage jobs have high-
er earnings because there is so much value to that experience. And
for some of them, it is the only way they get their foo tin the door.
As you pointed out, the CBO said that half of the people who lose
their jobs are going to give up looking for work in a few years from
now, and that is not what we want for society. I mean, the Amer-
ican Dream is not to come here and to live on government welfare
benefits and to just be sedentary. People want to work and to
produce things of value.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. I appreciate that.
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The cost of a dollar in Middle America is different than the cost
of a dollar on the Coasts. So how does creating a ‘‘one size fits all’’
minimum wage impact states differently?
Ms. GRESZLER. That is a great point is that the minimum wage
really should be a local wage. Not even a state wage. I grew up in
a very small town in Western New York State, 5 minutes from
Pennsylvania where you can still buy a good home for $60,000. And
so the cost of living just varies so much across the United States.
And as I was talking to some business owners, you know, about
their employees that are working there, some of them are very con-
tent earning the $10-$15 minimum wage range because that is a
decent living in some places, especially if you are in a two-income
household. And I just do not think that it is the role of lawmakers
in D.C. to say that we picked this one size that fits everybody. You
know, we saw in Seattle, they are already a high-cost area and
they are better able to absorb these higher minimum wages, but
even there, when they raised their minimum wage from $11 to $13
per hour, the studies showed that, yes, the employment effects
were not huge. They were slightly negative. But the biggest thing
was there was a shift. And so the lower experienced workers had
to go outside the city to find their jobs, whereas the companies just
started hiring and keeping the more experienced workers and it
made it harder for entry level workers to get their foot in the door.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. One of the most popular case studies on min-
imum wage came out of Seattle, Washington. Can you just describe
the impact that the minimum wage had on those Seattle workers?
Ms. GRESZLER. Yes. So it did slightly benefit the wages of the
workers who kept their jobs, and those were the more experienced
workers. But then there were less experienced workers who were
pushed outside of their jobs or who maybe had their hours cut and
had to go outside of Seattle to find more income and more job avail-
ability. And I think that that is an important thing to look at be-
cause when we are talking about on a national scale, that leaves
nowhere else for these workers and these businesses to go. And we
can look at websites like the Faces of 15 who document hundreds
of small businesses who have been affected by rising wage in-
creases, and a lot of them who have struggled to keep their doors
open have sometimes moved somewhere else. And we are cutting
off that opportunity by saying that $15 works across the entire
U.S. And actually, we are advantaging those places who have al-
ready gotten to $15 per hour because they have already been there
and they have higher costs of living, whereas, it is going to be the
lower cost of living areas who would be most devastated by this.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Great. Thank you very much, Ms. Greszler.
I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Now I would like to recognize the
gentlelady from New York, Chairwoman Nydia Velázquez, Chair-
woman of the Small Business Committee, for 5 minutes.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for
holding this important meeting, and the Ranking Member.
Dr. Shierholz, the last time we raised the minimum wage was in
2007 and it was only by a mere 65 cents. Can you walk us through
how the minimum wage has changed in value over time and what
effect this has had on workers and the economy?
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Chairman PHILLIPS. You have to unmute, please.
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. I am so sorry. I am that person in every room.
I guess hearings are just no exception.
Chairman PHILLIPS. We have all been there.
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. I will just say, okay, I will go quickly. I know
I am wasting time.
Workers today who earn $7.25 an hour are paid 30 percent less
in real terms than their counterparts were paid 53 years ago. We
have seen a dramatic erosion of the real value of the minimum
wage. At the same time, productivity growth has kept marching on.
Labor productivity has more than doubled over this period. And I
think I mentioned this in my original comments, but if minimum
wage increases just kept pace with productivity they would be over
$23 in 2025. So what we are seeing is that low-wage workers have
not shared in any of the country’s growth over the last half cen-
tury, meaning they have experienced much lower living standards
and higher poverty rates than our economy could have afforded
them. And a $15 minimum wage in 2025 would help reverse that.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. And can you please expand on the
positive impacts an increased minimum wage will have on small
businesses?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Yeah. So this is a really important question.
I think one of the things that we see with small businesses is they
are the folks, small businesses are people who are most likely to
work side by side with their low-wage employees. They know them.
They know their families. They know their children. They hired
them themselves. They really want to be able to give them a raise.
But when the Federal minimum wage is very low, when the overall
minimum wage is low, they cannot raise the minimum wages inde-
pendently because it puts them at a big disadvantage, a competi-
tive disadvantage to larger employers who can pay less. And so
raising the minimum wage actually allows them to pay their work-
ers more, to attract and retain the workers that they need. And
also as I mentioned before, it means they will face lower turnover
and a more productive workforce, not face high turnover costs. And
then a higher minimum wage means greater demand for their
goods and services. When you put money in the pockets of low-
wage workers, those are the workers who are very likely to have
no other choice but to immediately have to spend it. And that
means an increased demand for goods and services which is good
for business.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Mr. Puckett, you mentioned that most of your management hires
come from inhouse and you have a workforce development program
for employees that show promise. How has this benefitted your
business? And do you recommend that other businesses do similar,
something similar?
Mr. PUCKETT. I think it has been a vital part of our business
because it gives people a chance to build a career. We would like
to reward our top employees with a great job that they can, you
know, buy a house, send their kids to school, and being able to
offer that in the restaurant business where we do not even require
a high school GED to succeed. We just require passion, enthusiasm,
and reliability. So it is very important to our culture.
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I would not want to encourage my direct competition to do it. We
think it is so important but I think obviously it is a great thing for
businesses to offer a career from a starting hourly.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. And many have suggested that an
increase in the minimum wage is too much, too fast, but the Raise
the Wage Act increased the wage gradually and over a period of 4
years. If the bill passes and the first raise is on June 1st to $9.50,
will your business be impacted by this?
Mr. PUCKETT. Punch Pizza’s business will not. And really, we
are almost operating today like, I believe, your scheduled wages
would be in 2023 and 2024 given the very strong economy in Min-
nesota to pay more than our competitors pay. We are really start-
ing at $13 an hour already.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Madam Chair.
And now I recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, my friend,
Mr. Hagedorn, for 5 minutes.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Mr. Chairman and the Ranking Member,
thank you. I appreciate that.
I just think this is the wrong approach. This ‘‘one size fits all’’
deal as a mandate from Washington is not good. It certainly is not
good for a rural district like mine in southern Minnesota. And it
seems like if we want to build up folks’ wages and opportunities,
we should just look at what we did in the last 4 years with Presi-
dent Trump and Republican policies that made sense and worked.
Tax reform was excellent. Regulatory reform, less regulations, low-
cost energy, trade deals like USMCA. We have the strongest econ-
omy in our Nation’s history with the lowest recorded unemploy-
ment. And people who had ‘‘been left behind’’ in the past were
doing better than ever. I mean, I would like to see us not have $15
minimum wage as our goal. Fifty thousand dollar jobs is the goal.
And when you have like we did a year ago 1.2 million open jobs
and not even the people to fill them, you can guess what happens.
Wages go up. Businesses do everything they can to find good em-
ployees. And I think we just need to build the economy rather than
mandate from Washington.
But I think about how this works in my hometown. I go to the
grocery store there. There are a lot of young kids working in that
grocery store getting their start. I think you do a $15 minimum
wage in Blue Earth, Minnesota, you are going to be cutting some
staff. You are going to be cutting some opportunities. And it is
going to hurt that grocery store. It is going to put them in a posi-
tion, they are probably struggling already, it is a small community.
You know, they are not making the big bucks like some of the
stores up in Minneapolis and St. Paul. And you close that grocery
store in Blue Earth, Minnesota, you are going to destroy that city.
You are going to really undermine the whole community. We can-
not have that in our small communities. We need to defend them,
not put them in a position where they can go out of business.
Now, we talked to Bonnie Vetter, the Fleet and Farm and Ace
Supply in Fairmont and St. James, she says that this is going to
hurt them. They are going to have to drop employees. They are
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going to have to cut staff. I would like to put her letter in the
record if I could, Mr. Chairman with your consent.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Mr. HAGEDORN. And then, you know, I talked to my friend Wes
Otto who owns Zanz Restaurant up in Mankato. Small restaurant,
good tacos and all that stuff. And he writes they would have to re-
duce, with this $15 minimum wage, reduce staff by 20 percent and
raise food prices by 25 to 30 percent. And then he adds this, other
costs will more likely go up for our business such as vendor prices,
cleaning services, and window washers because those employees
are going to be paid more and those prices, those costs are going
to be passed along to this restaurant and that is going to put him
in a position of cutting staff or maybe going out of business. It is
not all good stuff.
I would like to put Mr. Otto’s letter in the record as well, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Mr. HAGEDORN. So I would ask Ms. Greszler, what Mr. Otto
says about driving up other costs, unintended consequences of this,
it is not just the direct cost that he has for labor but maybe other
costs for services. Does that square with you? Is that something
you could see on the horizon for businesses?
Ms. GRESZLER. I think absolutely this is going to drive up all
types of costs and that is clear when CBO said that it is not just
the 17 million impacted workers who would have higher wages but
10 million more above that. And it is the same thing that I heard
when talking to employers is it just cycles upward. And so while
some of the employers we have here today have a competitive ad-
vantage from paying higher wages, you lose that competitive ad-
vantage when everybody is paying that wage. And so therefore,
they have to increase their wages even higher to maintain those
workers because the reality is if everybody that is below 15 is
brought up to that 15 and you have some very experienced workers
who are making just as much as an entry level person, and they
are not going to want to keep that job anymore if they could go
take an easier one. And this really just cycles out of control.
And to your point at the beginning of the differences here across
the U.S., we are talking about an extremely high minimum wage
for some areas. And I think that Puerto Rico is a good example of
where we might be headed here. The $7.25 minimum wage for the
U.S., which applies to Puerto Rico, is over 70 percent of the median
wage there. Fifteen dollars per hour is the median wage in Mis-
sissippi. And across the entire U.S., we are getting close to that
percentage that it would be for Puerto Rico at 15. Well, Puerto Rico
has a 40 percent labor force participation rate. That is abysmally
low and it is nowhere near where we would want to be. That is 30
percent lower than the U.S. has right now. We do not want to push
all these people out of jobs and then have to supplement it with
something like a universal basic income and just all these costs
that are simply unaffordable. The economy will not work that way.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you.
I just think the better approach is to build up our economy. Do
the pro-growth policies that work. Help people that way. And these
arbitrary standards that we are going to impose across the Nation
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are going to destroy areas like rural southern Minnesota. And I do
not think it is in the best interest of the people. Thank you.
Chairman PHILLIPS. And now I recognize the gentlelady from
Minnesota, another friend from Minnesota, Representative Angie
Craig, for 5 minutes.
Ms. CRAIG. Thank you so much, Chairman Phillips. And con-
gratulations on your leadership here of the Subcommittee. I am
looking forward to working even more closely with my fellow Min-
nesotan here to help our small businesses across the state.
I am grateful for this hearing today and thank you for the wit-
nesses for sharing your experiences and your expertise.
The data today to me is clear. Raising the minimum wage gradu-
ally over the next several years would lift nearly a million people
out of poverty and significantly improve the quality of life for mil-
lions more.
As an advocate of small business, I do want to be sure we can
increase the minimum wage in a sustainable way for our Main
Street businesses, especially those that have been impacted by the
COVID-19 pandemic, mainly restaurants. I am a proud cosponsor
of the Restaurant Act and have pushed for the inclusion of a grant
program for restaurants in the American Rescue Plan that we ex-
pect to vote on later this week. That bill would include $25 billion
in grant money for a new SBA administered Restaurant Revitaliza-
tion Fund.
With that, I want to turn my question to a leader in the res-
taurant industry and another fellow Minnesotan. It feels like it is
Minnesota Day on the Small Business Committee. Mr. Puckett,
thank you so much for being here today. Your positive contribu-
tions to the state of Minnesota and this industry are indisputable
and really evident in your testimony today. And to me and my staff
as well, we are all big fans of Punch Pizza back in Minnesota, espe-
cially your location in Eagan.
You talked in your testimony about the immense loss of revenue
your business has experienced due to the pandemic, which we
know is a trend across restaurants. Can you speak for just a
minute on how restaurants receiving grant dollars through the
SBA’s Revitalization Fund would help assist the industry in recov-
ering?
Mr. PUCKETT. Thank you so much for that good question. We
appreciate all you and your staff’s business as well back home in
Minnesota.
The grant programs, similar to the Paycheck Protection Program,
have enabled us to operate in this scary, frightening environment
but keep our employees safe and withstand some just frightening
losses. We never lost money. Punch even made money its first year
of business. It was successful. So to just keep jobs, keep our em-
ployees, keep our stores operating, keep our landlords paid, oper-
ating at a loss until we get back to more normalcy, the comfort and
the protection knowing that we are not going to go out of business
because of the Paycheck Protection Program, and I hope that you
are successful with the new restaurant program. That enables us
to tolerate the losses in cashflow and make sure our vendors are
being paid and our landlords and employees are being paid.
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Ms. CRAIG. Mr. Puckett, let me follow up back a little bit closer
to the topic and subject of this hearing today. I know Minnesota
has gradually raised the minimum wage in the last few years and
I know in your testimony you talked about the impact on talent
that you are able to recruit to your restaurants.
Minnesota has done what we are attempting to do somewhat at
the Federal level here already. Give us some sense of how you were
impacted by Minnesota’s minimum wage increase, and if so, what
were some of the tactics you used to navigate those impacts?
Mr. PUCKETT. Thank you for the question. Yes, as you know,
Minneapolis and St. Paul I believe were in the $10-$12 range at
present for minimum wage. And so it has forced us to stay above
that. And what we have also done is offer higher wages for cooks
than cashiers. So we have a range. So we are ranging from $12-
$15 an hour. And in general, for Punch, our cashiers are more part-
time students and our cooks are more people that are household
heads or their family is primarily responsible. So one of the ways
we have done it is also look for ways to grow sales. And expanding
digital sales, figuring out the takeout business has been one of the
maybe unintended benefits of COVID-19 is that we have been able
to survive with 100 percent takeout, and we think that coming out
of the pandemic that we will be able to retain more of that busi-
ness and hopefully continue to stay ahead of the minimum wage.
Ms. CRAIG. Mr. Puckett, thank you so much. Sadly, I am out of
time. And so with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you.
Now, I recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, my friend
Dan Meuser for 5 minutes.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I
thank the Ranking Member. Thank you to the witnesses here with
us today as well.
So we are hearing some theory, some data, and some from the
real world. I think this issue, its intent is fine. The intent is to try
to help. But the Federal government stepping in and saying I am
here to help on a macro level for every business in town throughout
the United States usually does not work out. The idea of helping
employees by telling employers what to pay them, President Biden
actually said that raising the minimum wage to $15 across the Na-
tion, regardless of the economic situation of the area, somehow that
is going to help businesses through this very difficult recovery.
So lets look at a little bit of the data. According to the Bureau
of Labor, 392,000, .48 percent of employees of workers in the work-
force make the minimum wage. Another 1.2 million are in that cat-
egory as well but they earn tips. So they make more, much more
than the minimum wage. Two-thirds of those who make minimum
wage within 9 months are out of the minimum wage category.
Eighty percent that make minimum wage are part time, and it is
estimated, and there are lots of reports on this, we have to agree
upon that, that nearly 67 percent of the job losses that occur, if we
move to $15, are between the ages of 16 to 24. Sixteen years of age
to 24. So that is when opportunity is being created. Right? So
again, there are reports from the CBO. They say 1.4 million jobs.
The NFIB states how damaging it will be. There was the Seattle
report from a couple years back.
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And I think all of us, I was in business for 25 years. Small busi-
ness, large business. If this would work, I think we would all sign
on and say lets go if this would actually do the things that theoreti-
cally we are hearing from economists that will take place. But
there is a real world out there and I live in it, and I still live in
it.
And Mr. Chairman, I have some testimony from the following
small businesses: Boyer’s Food, Knoebels Amusement Park in my
district, Luigi’s Brick Oven Pizza. Great pizza in Tamaqua.
Klinger’s Restaurants and Gary Seibert, who runs a Small Busi-
ness Resource Association. And Boyer’s Food has 374 full-time em-
ployees, 709 part-time. Their average wage is about $13. Super-
markets run on 1 percent margins. Okay? So doing this will force
them to raise prices and have a more difficult time than they have
already had. Knoebels is an amusement park that largely provides
for summer jobs during the season, seasonal. Every kid within 60
miles, young person, wants to work for Knoebels during the sum-
mer because they sit at a pool and watch people come down on log
flumes. And if we were to do this they would have to enormously
cut back. They are in Central Pennsylvania, not Austin, Texas or,
you know, New York City. Klinger, a restaurant, same sort of situ-
ation. They believe they would have 40 percent less business. They
would have to increase their prices and lose customers. And Luigi’s
says the same thing. He would have to increase his prices which
equals in the real world less customers. Increase the price, people
want less of it.
So I will ask Ms. Greszler this. Since our restaurants have had
the most difficult time during this pandemic and should be tar-
geted in the upcoming so-called Relief Package, what will this do,
Ms. Greszler, to restaurants applying this mandate on them?
Ms. GRESZLER. This is in the worst possible time that we could
put a new mandate on restaurants. They have already reduced
their employment by 20 to 30 percent during the pandemic. Dozens
of restaurants have gone out of business completely. Big name res-
taurants. I mean, hundreds, if not thousands across the United
States have. And so when Congress is looking at ways to help these
restaurants and other small businesses, this is not throwing them
a lifeline. This is throwing them a load of bricks. These businesses
are out there struggling to survive and they have the hope, espe-
cially as the vaccines are rolling out, that there is a future there
and that they will be able to recover. But jobs that are lost to a
$15 per hour minimum wage will not come back. Those are the
types of jobs that big companies like Amazon will be able to, you
know, automate out of existence, outsource to other companies. I
mean, these jobs will not come back and that is the sad reality here
is that we are talking about a completely different environment
where there are not opportunities for tens of millions of Americans,
especially young workers, to get their foot in the door.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you very much. I yield back, Mr. Chair-
man.
Chairman PHILLIPS. We will see if we cannot do a second round
of questioning, too, and come back, Mr. Meuser.
Now I recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Chu, for 5
minutes.
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Ms. CHU. Thank you.
Dr. Shierholz, your testimony discusses the importance of elimi-
nating the subminimum wage for tipped workers. In my home state
of California, tipped workers are paid the same minimum wage as
nontipped workers, at least $14 an hour, arising to $15 an hour by
next year. I am so proud of my state for leading the country by
raising the wage to $15 and for eliminating the harmful and dis-
criminatory subminimum wage for tipped workers. So these steps
have been a success.
Now, before the pandemic, our restaurant industry was robust
employing nearly 1.5 million people at over 75,000 establishments.
That includes an estimated 1,700 restaurants in my district alone.
What is the problem with the subminimum wage and what advan-
tages do tipped workers in states like California have over those
in states that have a subminimum wage, tipped wage which can be
as low as $2.13 an hour?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. The advantages in those seven states that do
not have a subminimum wage for tipped workers is enormous. So
one of the things we know is that tipped workers have much higher
poverty rates than nontipped workers but that difference is sub-
stantially lower in those states that have phased out their submin-
imum wage for tipped workers. What that means is that the sub-
minimum wage for tipped workers reduces living standards of
tipped workers. It raises poverty of tipped workers and doing away
with it could help reverse that.
I think one of the things that happens is people think of, you
know, people typically think of tipped workers as being servers in
fine dining establishments who actually bring in a lot of tips and
those people exist but they are a very small slice of tipped workers.
And we need to actually keep the big picture in mind.
Can I just make one little thing? There has been a lot of talk
about teenagers in this hearing and I just think it is useful to bring
some data to this. While people who would benefit from increasing
the minimum wage are frequently characterized as teenagers, that
stereotype is profoundly wrong. Only 1 in 10 people who would
benefit from raising the minimum wage to $15 in 2025 is a teen-
ager. I think teenagers should get decent wages but let’s actually
just be clear about who is really being impacted by this policy.
Ms. CHU. And I want to thank you for saying that because there
are those who are saying we do not have to raise the minimum
wage because these are just teens trying to earn extra money. But
as you said, that is not true; only 10 percent of them are teens. But
they also should earn a decent living from their work.
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Yeah. More than half of the people who would
see a raise are what are known as prime working age adults be-
tween the ages of 25 and 54 who provide a ton of the income that
their family needs to make ends meet. These jobs matter for these
people.
Ms. CHU. Exactly.
Dr. Shierholz, another thing that distresses me is the gender pay
gap. And women earn just 81 percent of the median weekly pay
earned by men. Women of color are even more disproportionately
affected. Black women earn 61 cents for every dollar earned by
men. Native American women, 58 cents. Latinas, 53 cents, and
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AAPI women, while they earn 85 cents. But the thing is that we
can close this wage gap. In California, women own 89 percent of
the median wage earned by men. And in fact, those states with the
smallest gender pay gap all have minimum wages that are above
the Federal minimum wage of $7.25.
So can you explain to us why a $15 minimum wage will reduce
the gender pay gap?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Yeah. No, that is a really important question.
We know like the CBO’s report shows that raising the minimum
wage to $15 in 2025 will reduce overall income inequality but it
will also reduce other kinds of inequality like gender pay gaps.
What we know is that due to the impacts of structural sexism,
women are more likely to be in jobs that are affected by a min-
imum wage increase. So that just mechanically mean that raising
the minimum wage is going to reduce gender wage gaps. It is a
very important tool to create a more equal economy along gender
lines than we have right now which is deeply unequal.
Ms. CHU. Yes. And the states with the largest gender pay gap
all follow the Federal minimum wage. I would point that out.
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. I did not know that.
Ms. CHU. And I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. The gentlelady from New York, Ms.
Tenney, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is an honor to be
on the Committee with you, and I hope to get to know you well.
I just wanted to speak as a small business owner, someone who
has lived through this minimum wage and the negative effects,
though well intentioned, it has been my experience as a business
owner that although I would love to pay all my employees the high-
est wage I could possibly pay, I also had to deal in a competitive
industry where my cost as a New York State business competing
across state lines was significantly difficult.
And I wanted to put into the record, Mr. Chairman, some testi-
mony and a letter from Amanda Potter, who runs a women-owned
business that she started with her husband. It is called AP Master
Images in Utica, New York. Mr. Potter had a really tough lifestyle
growing up in foster care and his wife Amanda led the charge to
really put forth this wonderful business. And has expressed deep
concern about raising the minimum wage and the effects it could
have on their company. She cites a few specific things. If I could
get that in the record I would greatly appreciate it.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you so much.
Among those, as I think many people do not realize, is that once
the minimum wage is increased, that also increases a lot of the
other expenses that go along with maintaining competitiveness and
having employees, such as the taxes, the healthcare insurance,
paid leave in New York State, and many other items. Ms. Potter
indicated to me in her testimony, and I will just summarize that
it costs them over $100,000 over the next 2 years just by the in-
crease in minimum wage in New York State. This made them less
competitive and unable to compete across state lines. But also, un-
able to compete for employees in some ways and also give advan-
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tages to employees who, for reasons, you know, are part-time and
just looking for part-time work.
And that is something I wanted to bring up and I wanted to ask
Dr. Shierholz if she could answer a question for me.
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Yes, wait, sorry. What was the question?
Ms. TENNEY. Yeah, I wanted to just ask you a question. You
indicated in your testimony that the $15 is the ideal wage that we
should move to now. And you also alluded to the fact that $23 per
hour is what the wage should be. And based on your testimony, can
you tell me why the wage should not go to $23 an hour instead of
just $15? And what economic reasons would you argue that we do
not need to go to $23 an hour today?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. That is a really good question. So one thing
obviously that even the $15 does not go to $15 today. It goes in five
steps by 2025. What that, $23, I am actually not suggesting that
that is necessarily where the minimum wage should be. What it
says to me is that there is a lot of wiggle room. Even above 15
where the economy could still afford to pay workers that little if
it had just kept up with productivity growth——
Ms. TENNEY. Just to reclaim my time for a minute. Can you tell
me, yeah, just I want to get a more precise answer. Why are you
not advocating for a $23 minimum wage, or even a $50 if it is such
a benefit? And why would it not be good either way? I mean, $50
would be even better, $23 would be even better. Twenty-three or
50 would be even better than a 15. So why would you not advocate
for those if it is going to be such a boon to the economy and it
would make it even across the board?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. I do not think that it would. I think we have
two key programs or two key things that deal with the issue of low
wages in this country. It is the minimum wage in broad terms, the
minimum wage and the EITC. Those things work together to make
sure that low-wage workers actually have enough to make ends
meet. And so a $15 minimum wage combined with a strong EITC
is the program that I would go for instead of trying to make it all
up with increasing the minimum wage.
Ms. TENNEY. Okay. So thank you. So let me just summarize
your answer is that government needs to come in and determine
wages as opposed to the free market.
I just wanted to suggest another issue in terms of issues with the
minimum wage. There are also people who serve in a part-time ca-
pacity who now would lose their wages. One of the most compelling
testimonies I received from people on this issue before was from a
group of students who now would lose their summer jobs because
of the increase in minimum wage and less of them would be able
to work. So those were government-paid jobs. And I just want to
emphasize that we would love to all pay our employees more, but
unfortunately, inflation and the economy have prevented us from
being able to do that. But I want to thank the Chairman, and I
look forward to further discussion on this issue. Thank you so
much.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Now I recognize the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania, Mr. Evans, for 5 minutes.
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Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am going to have
to visit Minnesota to get some of Mr. Puckett’s pizza. I want to ask
him a question.
Do you think that retention rate would be 2.5 percent longer
than the industry average if you did not pay your workers more
than the minimum wage? And what are the benefits in terms of it
on the turnover rate, since you are in the real world?
Mr. PUCKETT. Thank you for our question, Representative
Evans.
I think pay is a key part of it. I think when you pay your people
well, it makes them feel valued. And that is why the pressure is
on Punch to figure out with the minimum wage increasing, can you
pay more than the minimum wage? Because I think there is a very
positive feedback loop of treating your people better than your com-
petitors are treating them. But pay is not it. Pay is not everything.
You need to have a company culture that they believe in. They
need to like their boss of the store or their boss in the office, like
myself. They need to believe in the product and think they are
making something great versus something average. All those
things I think contribute to people staying. But I think without a
doubt, when people feel good about their employer and feel well
taken care of, whether it is pay and benefits, retention increases.
Mr. EVANS. Ms. Hamilton, can you explain how using the Fair
Pay model has helped you retain employees and the fiscal benefit
it has brought?
Ms. HAMILTON. Absolutely. Well, we also, like Punch Pizza,
have a good starting base salary, and that is the basis of how we
structure our employment benefits here. And what we have found
is that by treating our employees well, by paying everyone a living
wage, people here are really engaged and we have an extremely
high retention rate. We have a lot of employees who have been
here between 10 and 20 years. Our average employee time here is
7-1/2 years. And what that allows us to have is to have a workforce
who is experienced. We have low error rates. We do not have to in-
vest money in recruitment. We have a productive workforce that
helps us to be creative, innovative, and successful.
Mr. EVANS. Thank you.
This is my last question. Dr. Shierholz, can you describe how a
large amount of income inequality might hurt the growth of the
economy?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Yeah, no, that is a very good question. So in-
come inequality hurts the growth, overall economic growth because
it means there is more money in the pockets of people who are not
spending constrained. They already have everything they want.
And so when you give them another dollar it does not actually
boost the economy and lead to an increase in demand for business
services. So if income inequality rises and you shift money from
low-wage workers who do spend every extra dollar they have be-
cause they have no choice, if you shift that money, redistribute it
through rising income inequality to highly-paid workers who are
less likely to spend it, it holds back the economy.
Mr. EVANS. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back. And we have to go have some pizza
there in Minnesota.
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Chairman PHILLIPS. I do not think there would be any objec-
tion, Mr. Evans.
And with that I recognize the Ranking Member of the Small
Business Committee, Mr. Luetkemeyer from Missouri, for 5 min-
utes.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And it is great
to be with everybody today. I think it is paramount we have this
debate and actually listen to small businesses on the ground that
they will be impacted by this type of mandate.
I would like to insert two letters from my constituents who are
small businesses themselves, the 54th Street Bar and Grill who
have written to us, as well as Rosebud Tractor from Rosebud, Mis-
souri, who is a tractor and implement dealer. They detail in their
letters the disaster that this thing is going to be to their businesses
which we will go into shortly.
I would also like to put into the record the report from the Con-
gressional Budget Office, which I think Congressman Meuser
noted, but I think it is important we put it in the record because
it gives the budgetary effect of the Raise the Wage Act, which is
what we are talking about, as well as the latest study from the
MFIB Research Center as of June 25th that talks about the effects
of the Wage Act on small business.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you.
Ms. Greszler, in your testimony you describe that there has been
a steep decline in workers earning a minimum wage. You men-
tioned that pro-growth policies assisted in this area. According to
a vast amount of research, small businesses are projecting opti-
mism and confidence prior to COVID-19. The unemployment rate
was at historic low levels before we were hit with the pandemic.
Can you describe in more detail how pro-growth policies assist
workers?
Ms. GRESZLER. Yes, thank you. I think this is a good point.
While the minimum wage has not risen for more than a decade, the
proportion of people who are earning the minimum wage has dra-
matically declined, 65 to 80 percent because most people are earn-
ing above that. And it is this combination of reducing unnecessary
regulations on businesses, allowing them to keep more of their
hard-earned dollars. When they have those extra resources, they
invest them in their workers. They can raise wages. They can pro-
vide additional training. They can provide additional benefits,
things like paid family leave. And all of this is why we saw just
over 3 years, between 2016 and 2019, the wages of the lowest in-
come earners, the 10th percentile of people who are making about
$10 per hour, their wages increased almost 15 percent over 3 years.
And that was far more than the median, and it was more than the
highest earners as well. And that is because when you have a posi-
tive environment that keeps opportunities open for people, that al-
lows the businesses to run their businesses as they see best and
not as policymakers in D.C. tell them they should do them, then
you see these rising wage gains, especially at the bottom.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you for that.
You know, the letters I have from my constituents really point
out, I think, the problem with the minimum wage situation here
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in that the Rosebud Tractor folks, they have a tractor and imple-
ment store where they not only sell new tractors but fix them.
Fifty-seven percent of their expenses are employee payroll, which
points to the fact when you increase over half of your expenses sig-
nificantly, it is going to amount to something. And for them it is
going to amount to about $190,000 more, even though they pay an
average wage in their business of $18.56.
With regards to the 54th Street Bar and Grill, they are going to
wind up losing about $425,000 after they raise the wages to the
minimum wage here which means they are going to have to raise
everything on their menu or go out of business. And we have al-
ready stressed the restaurant business with the COVID problem
enough. And in fact, here is an article out of Roll Call of all places
back on January 26th which says the restaurant industry already
wracked by COVID-19 now faces a minimum wage hike in which
they talk about one more blow to our restaurants. One more blow
to people who cannot afford one more blow. So why are we thinking
about this?
So I guess, Ms. Greszler, do you think this is a responsible thing
to do to put another burden on businesses like this that are really
struggling to add a minimum wage, another blow to them? How
would you react to that?
Ms. GRESZLER. No, I think this is reckless and tone deaf to the
realities and the struggles that these small businesses are facing
out there. And to potentially decimate entire industries by imple-
menting a ‘‘one size fits all’’ $15 minimum wage does not make any
sense. As some of the business owners here have attested to, a lot
of individuals work for small employers and there is real value in
that to having that relationship and feeling like you are a part of
something. And a lot of the restaurants and industry people are
working for smaller, independently-owned restaurants, and they
have that upward mobility opportunity. But as I said before, if we
implement a $15 minimum wage now, those jobs that are lost will
not be coming back and you are completely just devastating that
industry and those opportunities that are out there for people to
get their foot in the door and potentially stay in that industry and
be able to have a good career.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you for that. And I appreciate the
extra time by the Chairman. And I also would like to welcome Con-
gresswoman Tenney to the Committee. We are excited to have her
back in Congress, have her back on this Committee to be a very
valuable member, and I look forward to working with her over the
next 2 years.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Luetkemeyer.
And now I recognize the gentlelady from Kansas, Ms. Davids,
who is the Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth,
Tax, and Capital Access, for 5 minutes.
Ms. DAVIDS. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman.
Well, I am glad we are holding this hearing today. I represent
the 3rd Congressional District in Kansas, which is the Kansas City
Metro area. And we have a pretty vibrant entrepreneurial eco-
system in our area. And that is part of the reason that during my
time in Congress I have been committed to working on the Federal
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minimum wage issues that we are getting a chance to talk about
today so that we can help our hardworking Kansans, their families,
and also be mindful about our small business community.
We have heard it multiple times it has been over a decade since
we raised the minimum wage and the cost of living for folks has
certainly increased over that time. I do continue to be concerned
about the impact that our policy decisions that we make here in
Congress related to the minimum wage, what those impacts will be
on our small businesses who right now are facing an unprece-
dented economic crisis. And last Congress I pushed for a tax credit
to be included to help our small businesses cover increased ex-
penses. I was disappointed to see that it was excluded, but I was
also proud to support an amendment that was included commis-
sioning the study for what the impacts of the bill that we passed
would have so that we can get a clear understanding and make de-
cisions based on the evidence. So I am really glad that we are get-
ting the chance to hear from experts and small business owners
about an increased minimum wage today.
I want to start off with Mr. Puckett and Ms. Hamilton. I am curi-
ous about your thoughts on the impacts that the tax credits we
have been talking about would have on small businesses and, you
know, how helpful that might be in transitioning as the minimum
wage starts to go up.
Mr. PUCKETT. Go ahead, Ms. Hamilton.
Ms. HAMILTON. Thanks.
Well, I want to start by saying that with or without the tax cred-
it, I believe that raising the minimum wage would be beneficial for
our business and for our community here in New Hampshire where
we still follow the Federal minimum wage of $7.25. That said, if
there is a tax credit that can support our business and businesses
in our community in making that transition and it does not harm
the community members and employees then I think that would be
an all-around beneficial thing.
Mr. PUCKETT. I second that. Anything that can be done to help
small businesses weather this storm and make it through to the
other side, because small businesses really did not have the capital
structure that the big, big chain businesses did in our industry. So
anything that helps small businesses like Punch would be really
appreciated.
Ms. DAVIDS. And then I heard both of you talked a little bit
about the kind of longer term impacts, whether it is retention,
training, these kinds of things. Could you talk a little bit more
about just I guess how you envision, are these things that you talk
to your employees about when they come on board? Because I
imagine folks might even actually wonder why you are maybe pay-
ing the wages that you are paying at entry level jobs.
Mr. PUCKETT. One of the things that we are just starting to use
is the technology like we are using today to do job fairs. And we
are doing internal job fairs to explain all the opportunities our em-
ployees have from opening, from starting to grow. And then we also
do HR Week every 6 months and sit down with every employee and
talk about how they can grow with the company.
Ms. HAMILTON. Yeah, at Badger as well, when we onboard new
employees we talk about our pay structure and how that is integral
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to the decisions we make in our company and that we are com-
mitted to treating our employees fairly and to creating a good
work-life balance and supporting them to grow in our company.
And then additionally what I would say is that I had mentioned
earlier we have a really low attrition rate so that we have employ-
ees who stay here for a very long time and that has helped us to
be successful. We are now a second generation owned family busi-
ness. We have not ever had to take outside investing and that
comes from being a successful business, and a lot of the success
really comes back to the structure that we have created and how
we treat our employees.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you. I appreciate that. Just curious based
on some of the relationship conversation that was happening ear-
lier.
Chairman, I appreciate the hearing today and I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thanks, Ms. Davids.
And now I recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Donalds,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. DONALDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Really what I want to do here is read in a statement from a busi-
ness owner in my district. Her name is Stephanie Figueroa. She
owns three restaurants in Florida in my district called Fernandez
the Bull. Fernandez the Bull is a family-owned restaurant since
1985 that features traditional Cuban cuisine with a unique flair. I
go there often. It is amazing. I recommend it to anybody who comes
down. The quality, the consistency and the customer care that has
been at their establishment has made it one of Naples most pop-
ular restaurants. Fernandez the Bull is more than just a small
business; it is the American Dream. It started in the restaurant in-
dustry basically out of love for Cuban food. The owner actually
started as a server and she is now the proud owner of three res-
taurants. She employs 85 incredibly talented people throughout
southwest Florida. Some of these career servers, some of them
started as entry-level students and some of them are, yes, single
parents. All of them are family.
When she started her business, she had a pride of knowing many
of the opportunities that the company had created. It has been the
place where people have shared their griefs over meals, celebrated
victories over drinks, and proposed to love their life and so much
more. She loves to tell the story of one of her most treasured em-
ployees who started as a dishwasher and worked his way up to
being a manager. She thinks that young people who have come
there to work have learned customer service skills, problem-solving
skills, or they have learned that they had a passion for manage-
ment or the culinary arts.
Members of the Committee may not be aware but in the last
election cycle a constitutional amendment barely passed in the
State of Florida that puts us on a trajectory similar to the proposal.
The owner is a proud member of the Sunshine State and she is ac-
tually quite thankful that even during that election process that I
opposed the minimum wage that was on our ballot even though it
barely passed.
And her concerns are very clear. A Federal mandate of a $15
minimum wage is unreasonable and out of touch. It would actually
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shut down Main Street America. She believes that what it will ac-
tually do is that it will actually make some of her servers leave the
industry because of what it will do to the tip environment. Many
of her servers already make more than $15 an hour. The mandate
will intentionally cost many of her employees to lose income.
In short, Mr. Chairman, her belief is not only will it cause her
employees to lose this income, but it will also cause her to raise
prices in her establishment. It will increase the costs from vendors
in her establishment. And all that is going not be borne by the con-
sumer.
And I would like to enter in this letter from my constituent in
the record, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Mr. DONALDS. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
One of my questions I really had, and I was watching the testi-
mony from my office before I made it down to the Committee room,
but could any member, any one of the witnesses today, could they
actually speak to the actual costs a business would have to bear
with an artificial raising of the Federal minimum wage in such a
drastic manner as being purported in the proposal? Is there a wit-
ness that can speak to that?
Ms. GRESZLER. I would be happy to. When we were talking I
think earlier there was a mention of the grocery store and their
small profit margins and so I just quickly did a calculation there.
If you have a 1 percent profit margin and you go from a $7.25 wage
to a $15 per hour minimum wage, that employee, just paying them
that extra amount of money each day, they have to sell over $6,000
more in food. Maybe if it is a smaller percentage margin or a larger
percentage margin, we are still talking about thousands of dollars
more. And as you pointed out, Mr. Donalds, the tipped industry,
this is a 600 percent increase in the tipped minimum wage. And
make no mistake; there is no subminimum wage in the United
States. If you are making the ‘‘subminimum’’ wage and you earn
less than the actual minimum wage, your employer has to bring
those wages up. But the reality is that those tipped workers have
fought to overturn increase in the tipped minimum wage because
it has actually reduced their incomes in those areas. And so this
is just drastic assumptions that we are making that these employ-
ers can raise their prices or somehow pull this money out of who
knows where. But to say that we are going to allow employers to
pay their workers $15 per hour by mandating it, where is that
money coming from? Where are the thousands of dollars per work-
er in new sales going to come from?
Mr. DONALDS. Thank you so much.
And with the last 15 seconds, Mr. Chairman, what I will say is
one of my closest friends was in Seattle after they raised their min-
imum wage. A Subway sandwich that was $6.63 in Florida was
$11.83 in the City of Seattle. So the prices will go up on all Ameri-
cans.
I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Donalds.
Now I recognize the gentlelady from Georgia, Ms. Bourdeaux for
5 minutes.
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Ms. BOURDEAUX. Thank you so much, Chairman Phillips and
Ranking Member Van Duyne for holding this hearing to examine
the benefits and challenges to small businesses of raising the Fed-
eral minimum wage.
I firmly believe that we do need to raise the minimum wage in
this country to get it to a living wage. The current Federal min-
imum wage has not been raised since 2009 and at $7.25 an hour
it amounts to just around $15,000 per year. I personally have
worked for a minimum wage back in the 1980s when it was $3.25
an hour and I know how incredibly difficult it is to make ends meet
when you are working for this kind of very low wage and work two
jobs to try to just pay for rent and food and keep going. Luckily,
I was single and young at the time and so it was not catastrophic,
but if I had children this would be almost impossible to survive.
And now, far too many hardworking Georgians are working two
jobs, 60-plus hours a week, and really cannot make ends meet.
That being said, I definitely understand that we are increasing
this quickly and we need to think carefully about our small busi-
nesses and the ‘‘mom and pop’’ shops in particular throughout my
district. More than doubling the current Federal minimum wage
over the next 5 years, we are asking small businesses to really bear
the entire burden of getting us to a living wage. So I am very, very
interested in some of the proposals that are out there to try to soft-
en the burden on small businesses for doing this. One of the pro-
posals reported to be under consideration by some senators is to
complement the Federal minimum wage increase with a package of
small business tax cuts. I know we have some academic experts
here on this and I wanted to just ask, Dr. Shierholz, in your opin-
ion, are there policy proposals that we should be considering to
complement the wage hike and soften the blow to small businesses?
Are there any strategies in this respect that would be preferred one
versus another?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. So there are certainly plenty of targeted in-
vestments for small businesses in the COVID relief legislation, so
some of that is already totally on track. It has additional PPP
funds, targeted relief through the Economic Injury Disaster Loan
Program, targeted relief for restaurants, targeted relief for shut-
tered venues. So there is a lot already in there.
But I will say that minimum wage increases have certainly been
coupled with things like small business tax cuts in the past. I am
assuming that is under consideration here, too, though it is actu-
ally worth nothing that we saw a lot of business tax cuts in the
TCJA without a minimum wage increase.
Ms. BOURDEAUX. So some of those have already happened.
Just to follow up on that, the PPP and these Shuttered Venues
operations grants, things like that, those are temporary mainstays,
right, to get us through the COVID period. Are there longer term
policies that we should be looking at, you know, as we go about in-
creasing the minimum wage?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. That is a very fine question and I do not have
a complete answer so if others do I am totally up for hearing about
that. But I do think it is important to loop back around, that what
we know the literature shows us is that increasing the minimum
wage actually does not cause meaningful job loss. So keeping that
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as a backdrop, I think it does underscore that businesses in this
country are able, the empirical evidence shows they are able to ab-
sorb these costs. So I love all the stuff that is in the COVID relief
legislation. The efforts we talked about are a really good idea but
I do not think that we have to really go too far down that road be-
cause what we know is that businesses are able to increase these
wages, that is what the data show without negative consequences
on that.
Ms. BOURDEAUX. Okay, I have got a few more minutes. One
quick question about that. Why is that? You would assume, right,
if you are increasing wages in that way, but also, I think people
need to realize this feeds back into the economy because people
now have more money to spend and so they are buying new things.
Right? And you have this kind of circular benefit to raising the
wage. But do you have other insights on sort of why it is that this
does not lead to those kinds of problems?
Ms. SHIERHOLZ. Yes. I am glad you asked that. So we have
talked about a couple of things. Like, it reduces turnover and turn-
over is very expensive. So some of it is recouped that way. What
you just said, it boosts demand for goods and services. So that is
good for business. It increases revenues.
Another thing that is clear, and I think there has been a lot of
confusion about this in this hearing, is it is true that some of the
impact of minimum wage increases are passed along in the form
of higher prices. So that is another way that businesses help absorb
the impact of the higher labor costs.
But I just want to put that in context a little bit. Increasing the
minimum wage to $15 in 2025 will increase the total wages going
to low-wage workers by $107 billion. That is a lot, but total per-
sonal consumption expenditures annually in this country are over
$14 trillion. So that $107 billion is well under 1 percent of total
personal consumption expenditures. So even if the entire amount
were passed on in the form of higher prices which will not happen,
it would still have a barely perceptible effect on the overall price
level as it was phased in. And then after the phase-in happened
when we just had regular indexing, it would have zero effect on the
overall price level. So it is one way that businesses can absorb
some of the minimum wage costs but it is not at all a larger macro
problem.
Ms. BOURDEAUX. Thanks so much for your insights.
And I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman PHILLIPS. And now the gentleman from Wisconsin,
Mr. Fitzgerald is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, thank you to Mr. Puckett and Ms. Hamilton. You are
running much different types of businesses, are you not? One in-
volved obviously in pizza and the other one in hand balm and lo-
tions. So my question would be, and I think it is really negligent
of us not to continue to talk about this is a proposal that has come
up in the middle of the pandemic. And I think a lot of the studies
and any of the research that you have had, and I have seen many
of these going back to my days in the state legislature, you know,
have all been turned on their head as a result of COVID. So the
idea that, you know, while small businesses are literally closing
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day by day that this would even come up at this point is kind of
amazing to me. But here we are.
I was just going to say, in Wisconsin, the big three for us are
tourism, agriculture, and manufacturing. And for the most part,
small manufacturing, all very susceptible to changes in wages. And
I think that is not the case, obviously, in many other states. So it
is another thing that we have to be aware of.
The other industry I just say that could be directly affected, be-
cause there are always questions about trying to increase wages
without losing employees is assisted living. It is something that we
had worked on for many years in our state budgets, and it just
feels like that is another, you know, it is a necessary industry, ob-
viously, to take care of those individuals, but at the same time it
is susceptible to the back and forth of a small business. And these
are all things I think that need to be considered. And like I said,
just underscore the idea, we are in the middle of a pandemic and
businesses are completely in trouble right now. And the idea that
we would be talking about an increase in the minimum wage is
kind of ridiculous to me.
So I yield back. Thank you.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Now I recognize the gentlewoman from
California, Ms. Kim, for 5 minutes.
Ms. Kim?
Ms. KIM. Yes. I just unmuted myself. Thank you. Thank you,
Chairman Phillips and Ranking Member Van Duyne for hosting
this important hearing today. I look forward to working with both
of you and everyone else in the Committee to ensure our small
businesses have the tools and resources to overcome this pandemic.
This proposal to increase the minimum wage comes at a time
when many small businesses in California’s 39th District are strug-
gling to keep their doors open due to our state’s heavy-handed
lockdown.
So Chairman, I have a statement from Steven and Patricia
Bangos of Eureka Pizza. They are small business owners in my
39th District and I had a chance to visit with them and speak with
them. They are already running a razor think line with micro thin
margins for profit. And COVID-19 has already had a major impact
ranging from cost of goods to food costs. I would like to ask their
full statement to be entered into the record.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Without objection.
Ms. KIM. Thank you.
According to a study, approximately 62 percent of all small busi-
nesses think the worst of the pandemic is ahead of them, not be-
hind them. Instead of increasing costs for small businesses, we
should be looking to decrease costs and restore some of the eco-
nomic certainty that was lost due to the pandemic.
I would like to pose a question to Ms. Greszler. As a former busi-
ness owner myself and mother of four, I was troubled by the find-
ings in your study estimating that a $15 minimum wage would in-
crease the cost of childcare by an extra $3,728 in costs for a family
with two children. So can you please elaborate on how would an
increase of the Federal minimum wage to $15 result in higher
childcare costs?
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Ms. GRESZLER. Certainly. And so childcare is a little bit of a
unique industry in that they cannot use other options of reducing
the staff because of ratios and those things, and so they have to
pass all of those higher wages onto the customers. As I said, 21
percent across the U.S. but as high as 43 percent increase in costs
in Mississippi. And California, where you are, has actually already
dealt with this to some degree, and California’s Department of
Education looked at this impact and they said, while we agree that
$15 per hour, especially for childcare workers is morally the thing
that we should be doing, nevertheless, this is going to be dev-
astating for the childcare industry because childcare workers tend
to make lower than $15 per hour on average. And so you are in
this catch-22. You increase the prices and then people can no
longer afford childcare. And there has also been an experience in
California whereas a result of getting a wage increase, a family
earns more and now they lose hundreds, if not thousands of dollars
in childcare subsidies, as well as you have had the impact on the
childcare providers, those who accept subsidized clients will no
longer accept those lower rates when they have even higher costs.
And so this is an example where you are hurting the exact people
that we want to be helping.
Ms. KIM. Thank you for that.
I have another question to Ms. Greszler. In one of your reports
you mentioned that there are better ways to help workers achieve
lasting income gains. From your point of view, are there ways to
boost income without mandating an increase in the Federal min-
imum wage? And can you please elaborate on some of the ideas
that you propose?
Ms. GRESZLER. Yeah, and really the only way that you can
boost someone’s income permanently to have actual long-term
gains is to help them become more productive, to create more
things of value. And a $15 minimum wage creates an artificial
wage gain by taking it away from somebody else, but we would
rather just see these opportunities out there for people to have al-
ternative education, things like the apprenticeship programs that
you do not have to incur six figures of debt and get a 4-year college
degree. But nonetheless, will have a great career ahead of you. Re-
ducing the occupational licensing laws, things that say you have to
pay hundreds of dollars and go through all this training to be able
to arrange flowers or to braid hair. There is no reason that we
should have those barriers out there.
And then also, just keeping the opportunity out there for individ-
uals of all income levels, all education levels to use their skills to
go out and to be independent workers and to contract in whatever
way they would like. And I know this is particularly relevant as
well in California with AB5 shutting opportunities for a lot of
workers.
Ms. KIM. Thank you.
One last question. We often talk about the 1.4 million jobs that
could be lost——
Chairman PHILLIPS. Ms. Kim——
Ms. KIM.—but the CBO study.
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Chairman PHILLIPS.—your time is expired. We are going to go
to a second round, so perhaps if you want to stick around, but our
time is expired for right now.
Ms. KIM. Sure. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. And with that, we are going to move to a
second round of questioning. And I am going to begin by recog-
nizing myself for 5 minutes.
First, I have enjoyed this discussion, and it is exactly what I be-
lieve we needed. I also want to point out some facts. That of the
OECD countries, the United States currently ranks 14th of all the
countries with a minimum wage of $7.25. We are just below Slo-
venia and just ahead of Poland. Our neighbors to the north, Can-
ada, each province has a higher, significantly higher minimum
wage than we do in the United States, including Ontario at $14.25
Canadian, which based on current exchange rates is about $11.40.
They also make certain exceptions for students, for servers, and for
those who work from home.
My question is to Ms. Greszler. I am curious how research rel-
ative to how the minimum wage in Canada affects the Canadian
economy vis-a-vis our very low wage here in the U.S.
Ms. GRESZLER. I have not looked specifically at that but I
would just point out that regardless of what the minimum wage is,
what matters is what people are actually making. And we have
seen in the United States that not only are people having higher
incomes and earning more but that we have also had a lower un-
employment rate. And so there are fewer people who are not able
to find jobs.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Do you have a sense of what the median
wage is in the United States versus Canada?
Ms. GRESZLER. I do not know Canada’s.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Okay.
Ms. GRESZLER. I believe the U.S. is around $25 per hour.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Okay. Perhaps the most important ques-
tion is, my hope was that this hearing results in some ideas and
ways to mitigate any potential policy effects. So if in fact, Ms.
Greszler, that this policy were to be instituted as written, what
would you argue would be the most important mitigating policies
that could prevent job losses and ensure that small businesses do
not close if this was enacted as written?
Ms. GRESZLER. I think the most important thing would be to
not implement a ‘‘one size fits all.’’ And so to have a provision in
there, much like the Federal government does for the general
schedule pay scale that has locality-based adjustments and to allow
state and local governments to tie it to their median wage in that
area so that you do not disproportionately impact those lower cost
areas.
Chairman PHILLIPS. But if it is enacted as written, which does
not provide for any of those opportunities, what would you propose
we consider to mitigate the effects?
Ms. GRESZLER. I do not have any good proposal there because
I think that the mitigation measures would be so large and con-
sequential for the long-term economy that it is not something that
we would want to do. We are talking about pitting small businesses
against big businesses, lower cost areas of living against higher
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cost areas of living. This is just not simply something that would
work well across the United States.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Okay. I will close my questioning back to
Mr. Puckett. Mr. Puckett, you are already paying essentially close
to this minimum wage, and by the time this was fully in effect 5
years hence, you would probably be over it. But based on your ex-
perience in business, building Caribou, building Punch, what would
you argue we should be looking at as we reflect on the potential
consequences? I think we would all agree that there are some bene-
fits and there will be some consequences. What would you like to
see us consider as some potential mitigating policies if we were to
enact this wage scale based on its current construct?
Mr. PUCKETT. Thank you for the question. We are blessed to
be operating in a great environment in the Twin Cities, very com-
petitive. So it has made us adapt and stay ahead of that for our
people strategy. I have sympathy for small businesses all across
the country in areas that this would be potentially a much bigger
jump than what Punch faces. So I do not have any specific policy
recommendations but I think considering the different needs and
rural versus urban, different parts of the country is certainly an
idea. I was curious how Canada’s system works. I do not know if
it is possible to differentiate people that are household heads or
this is their main source of living as a differentiation between
someone that is doing that or a part-time student. But those are
things that could be considered, I assume.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Well, thanks, Mr. Puckett. And I agree. I
think we should look to best practices as practice by some of our
peers around the world.
And with that, I will yield to Ms. Van Duyne, our Ranking Mem-
ber, for 5 minutes.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
I want to read just a quote from a letter that we had gotten from
Casey Watts, who is a business owner from Loaf’n Dog and Burger
Bar in Cleburne. He said, ‘‘COVID-19 crushed us at the Loaf’n Dog.
We were shuttered for most of the year until we could get deliv-
eries going and curbside pickup, but this was not enough. I did re-
ceive a PPP loan which allowed me to keep my employees but only
by the skin of our teeth. Now our business is facing a new ominous
challenge, a call for the $15 per hour minimum wage mandate. In
order to keep the doors open with a wage increase like this I would
have to raise many prices at least 100 percent across the board.
Perhaps in Destin or Houston, or D.C. or New York, a local joint
can charge $11 for a chili cheese dog but that is not going to fly
in Cleburne.’’
According to the most recent data from the Bureau of Labor Sta-
tistics, 392,000 workers made the prevailing minimum wage. So
these workers represent .48 percent of the hourly paid workers. Ac-
cording to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 17 percent were
teenagers, 26 percent were between the ages of 20 and 24, so a
total of 43 percent of those were under the age of 24. I think even
more enlightening is that single parents, single working parents,
hardly any of them actually earn the minimum wage. According to
a 2017 report by the GAO’s office, only .15 percent of workers in
the U.S. are single parents earning at or below the minimum wage.
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That is really important because I think a lot of the testimony that
we have heard today talks about having a living wage, a living
wage for families. But we have talked about increase. We have
talked about increases in food costs, at restaurants, increase in
healthcare. And I guess Ms. Greszler, with the impact of COVID-
19, the unstable school schedule over the last year, it just seems
like America’s single working parents, but more specifically single
working moms, are facing some real challenges. With all of these
different increases outside of just the minimum wage increase, how
do you think that this increasing the minimum wage would impact
working single moms?
Ms. GRESZLER. I think that one of the biggest impacts is going
to be on that childcare cost. For single mothers, it is not an option
whether or not to work, and yet, when you would be facing thou-
sands of dollars more in childcare costs per year, that is going to
put these women in a bind, all these working parents out there.
And it is just going to negate any of the potential benefits of having
those higher wages. And it is not just childcare, but there are rea-
sons that we have more targeted programs in the United States,
whether it is through food stamp benefits, childcare subsidies,
these things are aiming to help working parents who need them,
and the minimum wage is not aiming at those working parents.
And so the reality is that you just end up hurting the people that
you are trying to hurt out there. And also, you were bringing up
the small businesses out there who are being crushed. And I think
it is important to point out that these smaller businesses, they are
the same as households out there. And so if we were faced with
twice the rent or the mortgage payment, we would have to make
adjustments. The notion that these business owners can just dig
deep in their pockets and pay all this additional money is ludi-
crous. And I have heard from small business owners they are tak-
ing out lines of credit because they care so much about their work-
ers and they do not want to lay them off. They do not want to have
that single mother unable to pay her bills each month. And they
care about their workers. And these are not the businesses that we
want to be shutting down with a $15 ‘‘one size fits all’’ Federal
minimum wage.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you so much.
And Chairman, I yield back my time.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Van Duyne.
Any other members wish to ask questions before we proceed to
closing?
Not seeing any, we will proceed.
I want to thank everybody. I want to thank our witnesses for
joining us today and my fellow members. This was the kind of dis-
cussion that we need more of. I think it is fair to say that we all
agree we want to see Americans’ wages go up. We want to see more
jobs created, not fewer. And we want to see businesses thrive, espe-
cially small businesses that are the backbone of our economy and
the backbone of our communities.
And as many of you know, I have built businesses, some very
successful larger ones and currently own a small business that does
pay a $15 minimum wage. Not because the law requires it, not be-
cause it is easy; rather, it is a principle in which my partners and
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I believe. But I hear small businesses every single day. They are
concerned about this policy and I understand their concerns. I
know we all do. And I am grateful that we were able to give voice
to some of those concerns in today’s hearing.
We have got to consider options for raising wages for the least
advantaged in our country. I believe they have been denied that for
far too long and we have a responsibility. So I am committed to
working together with all of my colleagues, Democrats and Repub-
licans in a bipartisan fashion to build a better economy for our
small businesses and for the people that build them, employees and
owners.
I talk about the trifecta—higher wages, more jobs, and more
businesses. So I ask that we focus on that, not just obstruct and
not just demand that we not proceed; rather, come up with solu-
tions on how we can achieve all three because I do not believe they
are mutually exclusive. And I want to see American once again be
at the forefront. I want to see us be the fastest growing economy
and a country to which our peers look to for the best policy in the
world.
So with that I ask unanimous consent that members have 5 leg-
islative days to submit statements and supporting materials for the
record.
Without any objection, so ordered.
And if there is no further business before the Committee, we are
now adjourned. Thanks, everybody.
[Whereupon, at 12:08 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00120 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
117
Insert offset folio 117 here 43447.078
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00121 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
118
Insert offset folio 118 here 43447.079
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00122 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
119
Insert offset folio 119 here 43447.080
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00123 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
120
Insert offset folio 120 here 43447.081
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00124 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
121
Insert offset folio 121 here 43447.082
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00125 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
122
Insert offset folio 122 here 43447.083
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00126 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
123
Insert offset folio 123 here 43447.084
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00127 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
124
Insert offset folio 124 here 43447.085
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00128 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
125
Insert offset folio 125 here 43447.086
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00129 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
126
Insert offset folio 126 here 43447.087
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00130 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
127
Insert offset folio 127 here 43447.088
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00131 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
128
Insert offset folio 128 here 43447.089
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00132 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
129
Insert offset folio 129 here 43447.090
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00133 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
130
Insert offset folio 130 here 43447.091
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00134 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
131
Insert offset folio 131 here 43447.092
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00135 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
132
Insert offset folio 132 here 43447.093
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00136 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
133
Insert offset folio 133 here 43447.094
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00137 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
134
Insert offset folio 134 here 43447.095
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00138 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
135
Insert offset folio 135 here 43447.096
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00139 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
136
Insert offset folio 136 here 43447.097
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00140 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
137
Insert offset folio 137 here 43447.098
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00141 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
138
Insert offset folio 138 here 43447.099
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00142 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
139
Insert offset folio 139 here 43447.100
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00143 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
140
Insert offset folio 140 here 43447.101
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00144 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
141
Insert offset folio 141 here 43447.102
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00145 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
142
Insert offset folio 142 here 43447.103
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00146 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
143
Insert offset folio 143 here 43447.104
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00147 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
144
Insert offset folio 144 here 43447.105
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00148 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
145
Insert offset folio 145 here 43447.106
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00149 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
146
Insert offset folio 146 here 43447.107
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00150 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
147
Insert offset folio 147 here 43447.108
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00151 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
148
Insert offset folio 148 here 43447.109
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00152 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
149
Insert offset folio 149 here 43447.110
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00153 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
150
Insert offset folio 150 here 43447.111
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00154 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
151
Insert offset folio 151 here 43447.112
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00155 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
152
Insert offset folio 152 here 43447.113
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00156 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
153
Insert offset folio 153 here 43447.114
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00157 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
154
Insert offset folio 154 here 43447.115
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00158 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
155
Insert offset folio 155 here 43447.116
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00159 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
156
Insert offset folio 156 here 43447.117
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00160 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
157
Insert offset folio 157 here 43447.118
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00161 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
158
Insert offset folio 158 here 43447.119
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00162 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
159
Insert offset folio 159 here 43447.120
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00163 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
160
Insert offset folio 160 here 43447.121
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00164 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
161
Insert offset folio 161 here 43447.122
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00165 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
162
Insert offset folio 162 here 43447.123
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00166 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
163
Insert offset folio 163 here 43447.124
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00167 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
164
Insert offset folio 164 here 43447.125
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00168 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
165
Insert offset folio 165 here 43447.126
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00169 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
166
Insert offset folio 166 here 43447.127
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00170 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
167
Insert offset folio 167 here 43447.128
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00171 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
168
Insert offset folio 168 here 43447.129
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00172 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
169
Insert offset folio 169 here 43447.130
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00173 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
170
Insert offset folio 170 here 43447.131
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00174 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
171
Insert offset folio 171 here 43447.132
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00175 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
172
Insert offset folio 172 here 43447.133
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00176 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
173
Insert offset folio 173 here 43447.134
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00177 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
174
Insert offset folio 174 here 43447.135
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00178 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
175
Insert offset folio 175 here 43447.136
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00179 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
176
Insert offset folio 176 here 43447.137
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00180 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
177
Insert offset folio 177 here 43447.138
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00181 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
178
Insert offset folio 178 here 43447.139
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00182 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
179
Insert offset folio 179 here 43447.140
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00183 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
180
Insert offset folio 180 here 43447.141
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00184 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
181
Insert offset folio 181 here 43447.142
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00185 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
182
Insert offset folio 182 here 43447.143
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00186 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
183
Insert offset folio 183 here 43447.144
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00187 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
184
Insert offset folio 184 here 43447.145
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00188 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
185
Insert offset folio 185 here 43447.146
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00189 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
186
Insert offset folio 186 here 43447.147
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00190 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
187
Insert offset folio 187 here 43447.148
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00191 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
188
Insert offset folio 188 here 43447.149
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00192 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
189
Insert offset folio 189 here 43447.150
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00193 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
190
Æ
Insert offset folio 190 here 43447.151
SBD026 with DISTILLER
VerDate Mar 15 2010 12:20 Aug 10, 2021 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00194 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6011 F:\DOCS\43447.TXT DEBBIE
File and source
- File
- CHRG-117hhrg43447.pdf
- Size
- 61,449,915 bytes
- SHA-256
- 9e9f68cff24f4264a336172459c1c3bc6492d8d144f494c2cdf67447515510d5
- Our copy
- CHRG-117hhrg43447.pdf
- Original
- www.govinfo.gov