Nomination of Kelly Loeffler to Be Administrator of the Small Business Association (S. Hrg. 119–18)
Summary
The Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, chaired by Joni Ernst, met on January 29, 2025 (S. Hrg. 119–18) to consider President Trump's nomination of former Senator Kelly Loeffler of Georgia to lead the Small Business Administration. Loeffler testified that a PPP loan that "we helped" Dockside Seafood in Savannah get saved the jobs of 35 Georgians, and pledged, if confirmed, to cut red tape and to crack down on fraud with a zero-tolerance policy. Ranking Member Edward J. Markey described a budget office memo as directing agencies to cut off all federal spending outside of payments to individuals and asked whether that action was lawful; Loeffler disagreed with the premise of the question.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Nomination of Kelly Loeffler to Be Administrator of the Small Business Association (S. Hrg. 119–18).”
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S. HRG. 119–18
NOMINATION OF THE HONORABLE
KELLY LOEFFLER TO BE ADMINISTRATOR
OF THE SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JANUARY 29, 2025
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
59–472 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Chair
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts, Ranking Member
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
RAND PAUL, Kentucky JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
TODD YOUNG, Indiana CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
TED BUDD, North Carolina JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
JON HUSTED, Ohio
MEREDITH WEST, Republican Staff Director
SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
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CONTENTS
WITNESS
Page
The Honorable Kelly Loeffler of Georgia ............................................................... 14
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 17
COMMITTEE INSERT
Ernst, Senator Joni
Letter dated January 21, 2025 ........................................................................ 4
ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
Angel Capital Association
Letter dated January 29, 2025 ........................................................................ 20
Association of Women’s Business Centers
Letter ................................................................................................................. 21
Economic and Community Development Institute
Letter dated December 5, 2024 ....................................................................... 22
Ernst, Senator Joni
Minority Report dated November 14, 2023 .................................................... 23
Georgia Public Policy Corporation
Letter dated January 22, 2025 ........................................................................ 42
Independent Community Bankers of America
Letter dated January 14, 2025 ........................................................................ 43
Independent Women’s Voice
Letter dated January 15, 2025 ........................................................................ 44
International Franchise Association
Letter dated January 21, 2025 ........................................................................ 45
Job Creators Network
Letter dated January 18, 2025 ........................................................................ 46
Kemp, Governor Brian P., State of Georgia
Letter dated January 29, 2025 ........................................................................ 48
National Asian Pacific Islander American Chamber of Commerce and Entre-
preneurship
Letter dated February 3, 2025 ........................................................................ 49
National Association of Development Companies
Letter dated January 17, 2025 ........................................................................ 50
National Association of Development Companies
Letter dated January 21, 2025 ........................................................................ 51
National Association of Government Guaranteed Lenders
Letter dated January 20, 2025 ........................................................................ 52
National Restaurant Association
Letter dated January 24, 2025 ........................................................................ 53
National Retail Federation
Letter dated January 17, 2025 ........................................................................ 55
National Small Business Association
Letter dated January 28, 2025 ........................................................................ 56
Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council
Letter dated January 18, 2025 ........................................................................ 57
Small Business Development Centers
Letter dated January 13, 2025 ........................................................................ 59
Small Business Investor Alliance
Letter dated January 17, 2025 ........................................................................ 60
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Society for Human Resource Management
Letter dated February 5, 2025 ........................................................................ 62
(III)
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IV
Page
U.S. Black Chambers, Inc.
Letter dated December 9, 2024 ....................................................................... 64
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
The Honorable Kelly Loeffler of Georgia
Responses to questions submitted by Chair Ernst, Ranking Member Mar-
key, and Senators Risch, Young, Cantwell, Shaheen, Booker, Hirono,
Rosen and Hickenlooper ............................................................................... 91
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NOMINATION HEARING
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 29, 2025
UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:33 p.m., in Room
428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Joni Ernst, Chair of the
Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Ernst [presiding], Risch, Scott, Young, Hawley,
Budd, Curtis, Justice, Husted, Markey, Cantwell, Shaheen, Coons,
Hirono, Rosen, Hickenlooper, and Schiff.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST
The CHAIR. I call the Committee on Small Business and Entre-
preneurship to order. I want to welcome everyone to the first hear-
ing of the committee in this Congress. I am excited to assume the
role of chair and serve as the voice for our small businesses.
The purpose of today’s hearing is to consider President Trump’s
nominee to lead the Small Business Administration, former Sen-
ator Kelly Loeffler. I’d like to welcome you here today and thank
you for your willingness to serve.
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you very much, Senator.
The CHAIR. I’m also delighted to welcome the committee’s new
Ranking Member, Senator Markey. He has been an esteemed mem-
ber of the committee for nearly 12 years. We both recognize the im-
portance of our nation’s small businesses, innovation and pro-
moting national security, particularly through the SBIR/STTR Pro-
gram. And I’m excited to continue the bipartisan working relation-
ship of our committee.
I would also like to welcome back our returning members and
provide a warm welcome to all of our new members to the Com-
mittee, Senators Curtis, Justice, Husted, and Schiff. I am looking
forward to working with everyone, and I expect a very productive
term, where we focus on the most pressing issues facing small busi-
nesses, including tax and regulatory relief to ensure entrepreneurs
thrive.
Just to give a quick run of show, I’m going to make a brief open-
ing statement, then I’ll turn to the Ranking Member Markey to do
the same. Following that, we have Senator Scott and Senator Britt
who will introduce our nominee. Then, we’ll administer the oath,
which is required. After the oath, Senator Loeffler will be recog-
nized for an opening statement, followed by questions from our
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members, alternating between each side. I now recognize myself for
five minutes for purposes of an opening statement.
Senator Loeffler, as I already said, welcome to the committee and
thank you for your willingness to serve in this role. I greatly appre-
ciate the time you’ve spent meeting with me and my colleagues
prior to this hearing.
I want to take a minute to recognize some of your family here
supporting you today. First, your husband Jeff. Thank you, Jeff, for
being here. Next, your brother Brian and his family, who I under-
stand traveled to Washington, DC from their farm in Illinois. And
also, your parents, Don, and Lynda, who are watching the hearing
from their home in Florida today. We appreciate you all making
the trip here and tuning in to this important hearing.
As a former member of this body, you understand the importance
of the Senate’s advice and consent process, and I appreciate that
you have fully embraced the committee’s standard, yet extensive,
vetting of your experience and background in advance of today’s
hearing and our upcoming vote on your confirmation.
As a successful businesswoman, it is abundantly clear that you
truly understand what it takes to be an entrepreneur. Throughout
your distinguished career, you’ve risen through the ranks of mul-
tiple companies due to your determination and grit, and you’ve
started many successful businesses yourself.
Most importantly, you understand what it means to be overrun
by Washington’s bureaucratic overreach, and the government must
instead get out of business’s way so they thrive. Small businesses
and their advocates are excited for your leadership.
The Committee has received several letters of support for Sen-
ator Loeffler’s nomination. The mission of the SBA is to aid small
businesses to ensure economic prosperity and free competition. Tra-
ditionally, SBA administrators’ programs and services fall into
three main buckets: there’s counseling, contracting and access to
capital.
While SBA once may have been characterized as a smaller agen-
cy, Covid small business programs made SBA a household name,
as the agency received a whopping $1.1 trillion in taxpayer funding
to assist small businesses during the pandemic. With that funding
came big responsibilities and our main concern, the SBA under the
prior administration failed to live up to its mission. I believe sub-
stantial reforms must be made to get the SBA back in shape, and
that is going to require strong leadership.
The Biden Administration decided to turn a blind eye to Covid
fraud and delinquencies refusing to properly collect outstanding
debt and fraudulent funds, which has huge implications to the tax-
payer. Reports have indicated SBA charged off about $18.6 billion
worth of EIDL loans in fiscal year 2024. Not once during the Biden
Administration was the SBA able to provide an accounting of their
loans receivable and loans guarantees, which meant that the Gov-
ernment Accountability Office hasn’t been able to even issue a fi-
nancial audit of the agency since fiscal year 2020.
SBA also completely mismanaged and misinformed Congress last
year regarding its disaster loan account, resulting in a shortfall
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lasting 66 days. An unacceptable failure for the disaster victims in
North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, and Florida. I
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do appreciate that once the account was funded, SBA staff worked
around the clock, including over the holidays to get the money out
to disaster victims. But I never want to see that situation unfold
again.
While SBA is failing, it also appears that its workforce continues
to stay at home, while it’s more than 246,000 square foot, Wash-
ington, DC headquarters sits empty. The GAO found that even if
everyone did show up to work in person, the SBA’s building space
would still only be 67 percent utilized, which is a complete waste
of taxpayer money. That is why I introduced a bill to relocate 30
percent of the headquarters workforce to the SBA district offices
across the country and cut 30 percent of office space.
The SBA has been completely out of touch with the real-world
challenges of entrepreneurs, and while the Biden Administration
simultaneously let SBA employees stay home, they also added posi-
tions in Washington, DC, while stripping offices in Iowa, New
Hampshire, Utah, and other states. I would like to work with you,
Senator Loeffler, on ways to ensure SBA is effectively utilizing its
personnel and ensuring that small businesses in all parts of Amer-
ica are able to access SBA programs if they need them.
I’ve detailed these concerns and others regarding the mess you
have to clean up from the Biden Administration, and potential
landmines you will encounter in a letter to President Trump on day
one of his new administration. I ask unanimous consent to enter
this letter into the record. Without objection, so ordered.
[The information referred to follows:]
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The CHAIR. In Iowa, Main Street is in trouble, and I hear from
my colleagues that this is true in their states across America.
Small businesses are the lifeblood of our rural communities and for
too long under the Biden Administration, they’ve been crushed
with red tape and woke program requirements, with no one caring
about how that affects the day-to-day operations.
I see a great opportunity for the Trump administration and you
Kelly, to revitalize small businesses in America. Thank you again
for being here and I look forward to your testimony. I now recog-
nize Ranking Member Markey for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR MARKEY
Senator MARKEY. Thank you, Madam Chair, and congratulations
to you. And welcome, to everyone here. I’d like to take a moment
to welcome the newest members of the committee, on the majority
it’s Senator Curtis and Justice and Husted. Congratulations. And
on the minority is Senator Schiff from California. I look forward to
working with all of you.
Senator Schiff, I extend my sympathies to you and the people of
California. It’s devastating to see the horrific damage caused by re-
cent fires in your state. We stand with you in these challenging
times.
But unfortunately, climate disasters like those in California and
that damage that was caused by just Hurricane Milton and Hurri-
cane Helene, in a three-week period, in September and October of
last year, it caused—those three storms cost 500 billion dollars’
worth of damage, much to small businesses. That’s more than half
of the defense budget of the United States. That’s the damage
caused by three storms in a very brief period of time and not count-
ing all the other damages they have caused.
And it’s only going to get worse, and more expensive unless we
invest in long-term solutions to keep communities safe. We need to
provide resources for small businesses in places such as California
and the southeastern states to recover, to adapt and to innovate.
And I was looking forward to this hearing to discuss work together
on behalf of America’s 34 million small businesses, including more
than 722,000 small businesses in Massachusetts. We have 7 million
people in Massachusetts and 722,000 small businesses. That’s our
state’s identity, it is small businesses.
However, we find ourselves in a new reality, where the programs
across government can be cut in a moment’s notice with a cryptic
two-page memo, leaving lawmakers and American families alike
scrambling, to figure out whether the government is open for busi-
ness. Can a new business owner looking to open her beauty salon,
expects to close on an SBA loan and get her money on schedule?
Yesterday we heard conflicting answers out of the White House,
and I can only imagine what that uncertainty does to a first-time
small business trying to meet its expenses, unacceptable. We can’t
allow a plumber or a childcare provider in everytown America,
someone that may have spent their entire life working for someone
else and is ready to invest in themselves, to question whether their
government will keep its word and stand behind them.
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Apparently, we also live in a new reality where more than a
dozen Inspector Generals, can be fired without notice or cause, in
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clear violation of the law that required a 30 days’ notice. Mike
Ware, the Inspector General at SBA, was illegally fired by Presi-
dent Trump on Friday night while he was at dinner with his wife.
Inspector General Ware has earned bipartisan respect for his can-
dor, for his meticulousness, and his tireless work ethic over 34
years of service. And because of his work, he was elected to actu-
ally chair the governmentwide council of Inspectors General.
Having independent oversight at SBA is more important than
ever given the breadth of its work. And I might add here, that
under Mike Ware’s leadership as SBA’s Inspector General, he col-
lected $9 billion in Covid-related fraud. Mike Ware did that job,
and he is the chair of all Inspectors General, for the record, and
got fired on Friday night, illegally with no notice, just wrong.
Our job on this committee is to support small businesses and cre-
ate a ruthless Darwinian marketplace that would bring a smile to
Adam Smith. Massachusetts is one of the wealthiest states in
America per person. So, we believe in capitalism, but we also be-
lieve in fairness. I want to ensure that every enterprising kid with
a million-dollar idea has the chance to fairly to compete in the mar-
ketplace.
We can promote innovation and competition by strengthening
programs like SBIR, or the Small Business Innovation Research
program and STTR, the Small Business Technology Transfer Pro-
gram, which help bring many innovative ideas to life.
In Massachusetts, small businesses have won more than $8 bil-
lion in SBIR awards and over $722 million in STTR awards. As
Ranking Member, I want to work together with Chair Ernst to
strengthen SBIR and STTR, keep businesses in Massachusetts and
Iowa or across our country, keep them competitive and build on the
small business boom that was created under the Biden Harris Ad-
ministration.
Under President Biden’s leadership, we saw a record 21 million
new business applications, support for more than $1.2 trillion in
loans and grants, to more than 13 million small businesses, 13 mil-
lion small businesses, and a record amount of federal contracting
dollars for small businesses, including small disadvantaged busi-
nesses. We need to keep that momentum up, and I just am looking
forward to these next couple of years.
Senator Loeffler, thank you for joining us today and I know we
share a belief that access to capital in underserved areas is vital
and I look forward to hearing your vision for America’s small busi-
nesses. In particular, I’m eager to hear how you plan to promote
competition, innovation, and job creation. It’s an absolute critical
part of our economy and as we know, a vision without funding is
an hallucination, so we just have to make sure that we keep these
programs intact, protected and flowing for everyone. So, I thank
you, Madam Chair. I look forward to this hearing.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Ranking Member Markey. And next, I
would like to recognize Senator Britt from the great State of Ala-
bama to introduce our nominee. Senator Britt, you’re recognized.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR BRITT
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Senator BRITT. Thank you, Chair Ernst, and Ranking Member
Markey, and members of the committee. It is an honor to be here
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with you today to introduce my friend. She’s President Trump’s
nominee to be Administrator of the Small Business Administration,
former United States Senator Kelly Loeffler. A prolific job creator,
an entrepreneur, and a quintessential American success story.
Kelly grew up on a family farm, became the first in her family
to earn a college degree and worked her way up to the highest lev-
els of business. She joined Intercontinental Exchange when it had
under 100 employees, and then spent nearly 20 years building it
into a global powerhouse and a Fortune 500 company.
She went on to found Bakkt, and as its CEO and first employee,
she laid the foundation to take the company public in just three
years. Since leaving the Senate in 2001, she’s devoted her time to
running a voter registration nonprofit.
To me, the most striking and most impressive part of Kelly’s
story is this; she gave up a successful career in the private sector
to serve the Senate, and donated every single paycheck while she
was here to charity. And now, that she’s made the decision to serve
the American people once again, when confirmed, if confirmed,
which I believe you will be and strongly, hopefully in a bipartisan
fashion. With her signature selflessness, she will once again donate
her salary to charity.
Kelly is the perfect choice to lead the SBA, and I want you to
understand why this matters to me. First off, 99.4 percent of the
businesses in the great State of Alabama are small. So, what you
do matters. And I’m also the daughter of two small business own-
ers, and so I have seen the struggles of my parents firsthand.
You’ve seen that when people get in these rooms in DC and cre-
ate big, burdensome regulation, the truth is they hit the little guy
the hardest. And you get it, you’ve lived it and you’re ready to fight
for these individuals. You’re ready to fight for the American dream,
you have a proven track record in delivering efficiency, account-
ability, and results driven leadership. And she wants to empower
every entrepreneur with the resources and support they need to
pursue what they believe they can.
In closing, I’d like to say I have absolute confidence in Kelly’s
ability to strengthen our main streets, to figure out how we get
capital to underserved communities, to figure out how we roll back
red tape and let people do what they do best, job creators soar and
achieve the American dream. Helping our small businesses thrive
like never before is what I’m confident she will do.
So, thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to each and
every one of you, and thank you for giving her the utmost credence
because she’s who we need in this role as the next SBA adminis-
trator. Thank you.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Britt. And next, we will have
Senator Tim Scott here at the dais to introduce the Honorable
Kelly Loeffler. And Senator Scott, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT
Senator SCOTT. Thank you, Chairwoman Ernst, Ranking member
Markey and members of the committee. And it’s my honor to be
here today to introduce President Trump’s nominee to serve as Ad-
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ministrator of the Small Business Administration, my friend Kelly
Loeffler from the great State of Georgia. I agreed to introduce Kelly
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today because her path like mine, to success and the U.S. Senate
defied all odds. She’s standing before you because she loves the
Lord, she has an amazing work ethic, and frankly, she loves her
country as much as anyone I’ve ever met.
Small business in rural America run through the thread of the
Loeffler family. I love the story of her family. She’s a fourth-gen-
eration farmer. Her grandfather had an eighth-grade education,
her father a high school education. She worked so hard, that lit-
erally her hard work and her strong value system made her the
first college graduate and then later she earned her MBA. Her
story is frankly a story of remarkable success and one that we
should all be thankful that America continues to create all across
the country.
And one of the things that we oftentimes think of when we think
about success and the American dream is home ownership. For me,
the American Dream was achieved through small business, of hav-
ing someone to be the Administrator of the SBA who understands
and appreciates small business, I have a great passion for people
like that.
Someone who’s not only—you are at the top of the food chain in
business, but frankly, I prefer the part of your story that starts
with a woman working her way at minimum wage jobs and work-
ing your way up that ladder, that we spend so much time talking
about the top of the ladder, that we forget that most of us have to
climb that ladder rung by rung by rung. And you’ve done a mar-
velous job of doing that.
One of the things I’d like to celebrate about her time in the
United States Senate after being appointed in Georgia was that,
during the pandemic we worked closely on relief for families and
businesses across the South. We fought to improve access to the
CARES funds to keep Main Street alive.
You and I fought together to stop bad actors from taking advan-
tage of fraudulent loans. And we backed President Trump’s efforts
to move supply chains from overseas, cut regulations, lower taxes,
and empower American entrepreneurs to succeed. By the end of
your term, you had passed half a dozen bills into law and delivered
$47 billion of relief funds to Georgia, to their employees, and to
their small businesses.
Kelly’s career has been nothing short of amazing, proving that
the American dream can be achieved through hard work, faith,
with the right leaders in place. Kelly Loeffler is the right leader to
put in place as the Administrator at the SBA. Her proven track
record is why we can have great confidence that the SBA will re-
turn to the gold standard under your leadership.
I’ll just stop there with my prepared remarks and simply say
that as a small business owner for 15 years, I have great con-
fidence in your ability to do the job. To my fellow members of this
committee, I hope that you’ll hear her out, but I’m also asking for
you to vote for her, because it is time for us to right the ship, to
focus on the underserved communities around this country, and to
make sure that every single ZIP Code in this nation has strong,
powerful, small businesses. Because without small businesses, we
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will have high unemployment and low enthusiasm. Thank you for
your time.
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The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Scott, for that kind introduction.
Now, I will note that the vote has started. So, if we have members
further down the dais that would like to go vote now, please do so.
Ms. Loeffler, if you would, please rise. We’ll swear you in.
Okay. Ms. Loeffler, raise your right hand. And this is the tradi-
tion of the committee to swear in our nominees. So, we are swear-
ing in today Kelly Loeffler to be Administrator of the SBA. Please
answer the following questions. Do you solemnly swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Senator LOEFFLER. I do.
The CHAIR. Should you be confirmed as Administrator, are you
willing to appear and testify before any duly constituted Committee
of Congress when requested to do so?
Senator LOEFFLER. Yes.
The CHAIR. Good. Okay. Are you willing to provide such informa-
tion as requested by any such committee?
Senator LOEFFLER. I am.
The CHAIR. Thank you. You may go ahead and take your seat,
Ms. Loeffler, and you are now recognized for five minutes to pro-
vide your opening statement to the committee.
TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE KELLY LOEFFLER, NOMINEE
TO BE ADMINISTRATOR, SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you, Chair Ernst. And let me just say
it’s a distinct honor to be here today. Chair Ernst, Ranking Mem-
ber Markey, and members of the committee, it’s truly an honor to
be before you today as President Trump’s nominee for the Adminis-
trator of the Small Business Administration.
I’m as humbled to be here today as I was serving alongside many
of you in the U.S. Senate, and I’ve appreciated the opportunity to
meet with nearly every member of this distinguished committee in
recent weeks.
I’m especially grateful to President Trump for entrusting me
with the privilege and responsibility of serving America’s 34 million
small businesses. There is no stronger advocate for these job cre-
ators than our President, and I share his commitment. If con-
firmed, I will work tirelessly with him to make small business
great again.
I want to thank my incredible husband Jeff, my wonderful family
and friends who have joined us here today and in person and via
broadcast. Most importantly, I give all thanks and glory to God.
As someone who has spent my life working in small businesses,
starting them, growing them, and helping them succeed—I know
that small business is big business for America. They comprise 99
percent of all businesses, they create two out of every three new
jobs and employ nearly half of the private sector workforce. They
are the opportunity and innovation engines that drive prosperity
and growth and they power the American economy as much as they
power the American dream.
In his first term, President Trump made historic strides to em-
power job creators and job seekers alike, driving small business for-
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mation, a blue-collar boom. And through historic tax cuts, trade
deals and deregulation, his agenda created 7 million new jobs, de-
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15
livered historically low poverty and record employment for minority
communities.
His first term accomplishments were so great that following the
2024 election, small business optimism recorded its largest jump
since 1980. That was more than two months before he even took
office.
Small business is in my DNA. I grew up as the fourth generation
on our family’s farm in Illinois. My wonderful parents, Don and
Lynda didn’t have degrees, but they had faith and grit. They
worked relentlessly to sustain our farm and small trucking com-
pany, risking everything to provide for us while navigating volatile
commodity markets and complex regulations and facing countless
day-to-day challenges.
It’s where my Midwestern work ethic was ingrained, working in
our soybean fields, and waiting tables at local restaurants, pre-
paring me for a lifetime of growing and starting businesses. I be-
came the first in my family to graduate college, later earned my
MBA and became the only CFA ever to serve in Congress.
Since then, I helped grow a startup into a Fortune 500 company.
For 10 years, I co-owned a WNBA team. I later launched a finan-
cial tech company as the founding CEO and first employee. I recall
managing budgets in excel spreadsheets, hiring my first team
member and working with regulators, as much as I recall ringing
the bell when two of those companies went public.
In the Senate, I strongly supported President Trump’s historic
agenda and pandemic response. Having spent years as a small
business owner, I made it my mission to serve as their voice. I
spent much of 2020 delivering relief-traveling the state of Georgia
and meeting with Main Street entrepreneurs like Eric and Rachel
from Dockside Seafood in Savannah, they were struggling to navi-
gate the PPP program. The loan that we helped them get didn’t
just save the restaurant, it saved the jobs of 35 Georgians. And I’m
so proud to say that they’re still in business today.
Now, no matter the business, the challenges are consistent—from
managing inflation and capital to hiring a skilled workforce and
weathering uncertainty. Job creators in the last four years have
faced rising demands to comply with new rules, often drafted with
unknown cost and consequence. This regulatory complexity crushes
growth, picks winners and losers, and denies opportunity to those
who dare to dream of a better future.
If I have the honor of being confirmed, I’ll leverage my decades
of business experience to champion America’s entrepreneurs. We’ll
cut red tape and modernize this agency while restoring the ac-
countability and transparency that taxpayers deserve. I will crack
down on fraud with a zero-tolerance policy while shifting SBA’s
focus from Washington, DC back to Main Street, across America.
And if confirmed, I’ll collaborate across government and the pri-
vate sector to deliver efficiency and results. Importantly, we will re-
sponsibly and urgently meet the challenge of disaster relief. I am
committed to serving all who are impacted from North Carolina to
California to Hawaii.
Each taxpayer dollar entrusted to the SBA should have an eco-
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nomic multiplier effect, delivering productive capital to grow manu-
facturing, strengthen rural communities, create jobs, and develop
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16
critical technologies like AI and chips. I believe we must continue
to empower entrepreneurs from all walks of life, including women
and veterans.
Above all, the SBA’s founding mission needs urgent restoration:
empowering small businesses, and growing our economy. That’s ex-
actly what the America First agenda does—by ending inflation, cut-
ting taxes, unleashing American energy dominance, slashing regu-
lation, and reining in waste, fraud, and abuse across government.
In the last four years, small businesses have lost ground bur-
dened by inflation, big government regulation and uncertainty that
threatens the very existence of Main Street. President Trump’s
proven agenda will restore the small business economy marking a
return to ‘‘Made in America’’—with a golden era of prosperity and
growth.
At the SBA, that means meeting today’s dynamic challenges
alongside America’s entrepreneurs, not by sitting in Washington or
working from home. We will honor their jobs by doing ours.
Small businesses are the risk takers, job creators, taxpayers,
innovators, and the providers of first jobs. To former waitresses
like me, they represent the best of American free enterprise. Like
President Trump, I’ve signed the front of a paycheck. We both un-
derstand there is nothing ‘‘small’’ about small business.
Chair Ernst, Ranking Member Markey, and committee members:
thank you for your dedication to small business. I welcome your
questions and I would be honored to earn your support to serve as
the next Administrator of the Small Business Administration.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Senator Loeffler follows.]
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The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Loeffler for your testimony. Be-
fore we move to questions, the committee has received several let-
ters of support for Senator Loeffler’s nomination, and I ask unani-
mous consent to enter into the record letters of support from the
following organizations.
America’s Small Business Development Centers, Independent
Community Bankers of America, Independent Women’s Forum, Job
Creators Network, National Association of Development Compa-
nies, National Retail Federation, Small Business Investor Alliance,
Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council, National Associa-
tion of Government Guaranteed Lenders, International Franchise
Association, National Restaurant Association, Georgia Public Policy
Foundation, Governor of Georgia—Brian Kemp, Association of
Women’s Business Centers, Economic and Community Develop-
ment Institute, U.S. Black Chambers Incorporated, and the Na-
tional Small Business Association.
[The information referred to follows:]
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The CHAIR. Without objection, so ordered.
So, at this time, we will go ahead and move on to questions. So,
I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions.
Senator Loeffler, in our conversation, you made it clear that
given your time in the Senate, you understand the role of Congress.
You denoted given your business experiences, you’d view us as your
board and the taxpayers as your shareholders, with responsibilities
to all of us to ensure the SBA moves forward in the right direction.
Unfortunately, the Biden Administration did not share this view.
I repeatedly requested information and those requests were ignored
or fumbled. Can you commit to provide this committee with the
documents and information at requests in a timely manner?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely Chair Ernst. I look forward to a
collaborative and responsive relationship.
The CHAIR. Yes, and I think that is essential to a good partner-
ship between Congress, the Small Business Administration, and
our constituencies. That’s who we serve. So, thank you for that.
Last year, SBA failed to alert or provide the committee with in-
formation before the agency ran out of funding for its disaster as-
sistance program. Can you commit to more transparent, timely,
and forthright dialogue between the SBA and this committee
should you become administrator?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely, Chair Ernst. This should never
happen again under my watch, it will not and we will work to
make sure that we have all the controls in place.
The CHAIR. Thank you for that answer. I’d like to move on to
your goals and vision for the agency. Now, we know that it’s ex-
tremely important to me that we right size the SBA and get it on
a clear course to deliver its mission. Within your first 100 days as
administrator, what would be your primary goals and objectives to
get the SBA back on track?
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you for the question, Chair Ernst. And
I too enjoyed the time that we were able to spend together with you
and your staff. I think your leadership of this committee is critical
and I appreciate the work that you’ve done to date.
I look forward to working with this entire committee toward the
aims of restoring the Small Business Administration, to serving
small businesses and supporting economic growth in this country,
that’s our North Star. In order to do that, we must have account-
ability at this agency—it’s in dire need of restoration, and that
starts with shoring up the financial situation.
The fact that this agency has not been able to pass an audit for
four years is a disgrace. We must make sure that we are account-
able to taxpayers, that our programs are solvent and working to-
ward the aims of serving small businesses. So, obviously, we’re
going to get our financial house in order and do it quickly.
And we’re going to do that, in addition to making sure the pro-
grams are working for small businesses and taxpayers, we know
that the core (7a) loan program is in need of oversight in terms of
understanding the rising delinquencies and defaults. We will take
a hard look at that. We will make sure that the disaster funds are
resourced and accounted for, and that there are no more situations
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disaster relief.
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And then finally, we are certainly going to get this agency back
to work. I am grateful for President Trump’s rapid action through
his executive order to return to work. We’re going to make sure
that we have people at work committed to the success of small
businesses that have a heart for small business, but also have that
sense of accountability to taxpayers.
The CHAIR. Thank you so much for that. And as you talk about
the audit, we know that we need transparency within the Small
Business Administration, and hearing that is music to my ears. I
began my elected career representing the taxpayers of Montgomery
County as their county auditor. And I’m just excited to know that
you will follow through on that commitment.
As you know, I also serve as the Chair of the Senate DOGE Cau-
cus, and we have a public mandate and a very rare opportunity to
expose and roll back programs for what they truly are, multimillion
dollar boondoggles. SBA is not immune to this, which provides us
extraordinary opportunity to streamline and disrupt the bureauc-
racies and their status quo. Will you commit to examining pro-
grams to root out fraudulent actors?
Senator LOEFFLER. This is critical because we’re over four years
past Covid. The last administration took a pass on rooting out
fraud in these programs. I appreciate your work and your legisla-
tion, continuing Covid collections to make sure that we go after
those that want to defraud the government. As I said, we’ll have
a zero-tolerance policy toward fraud, but also toward waste and
abuse. And we will root that out within the agency and those that
seek to exploit the programs.
The CHAIR. Very good. Thank you very much, Senator Loeffler.
At this time, I will turn the gavel over to Senator Curtis while I
go vote. And I will recognize Ranking Member Markey for your
questions.
Senator MARKEY. Thank you, Madam Chair, very much. On Mon-
day night, President Trump’s budget office issued a memo that di-
rected agencies to cut off all federal spending outside of payments
to individuals. The Trump Administration issued this order even
though this spending was authorized and appropriated by Congress
and intended to benefit the American people.
So, my first question is very straightforward, do you believe that
this action by the President to cut off federal funding, authorized
and appropriated by Congress, was lawful?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I disagree with the premise of your
question because the money was certainly with regard to the agen-
cy’s discretionary in many cases. But I fully agree with President
Trump’s decision to stop wasteful spend spending, it resulted in a
landslide victory that many Americans were waiting for relief
against excessive government spending that has——
Senator MARKEY. He froze all programs. He did not freeze pro-
grams that had waste, fraud, and abuse. He froze all programs. Do
you think that’s lawful that he can freeze all programs?
Senator LOEFFLER. With all due respect, I completely disagree.
Not all programs were frozen at all. He, specifically in the OMB,
called out programs related to illegal DEI programs and programs
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that effectively linked to the Green New Deal that picks winners
and losers. And so, I think Americans breathed the sigh of relief
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when they saw that the waste, fraud, and abuse is going to get out
of this government.
Senator MARKEY. Wait, no, no. On the next day, OMB did put
out a statement saying, funds for small businesses are not subject
to the order. So, he did not single out all these programs, initially.
They were under this cloud of freezing all programs, it had to be
clarified. And that’s good for small businesses, but only for now.
This uncertainty, the cloud, which was placed over the head of
small businesses across the country, that could return at any mo-
ment. It’s just a dangerous precedent that the President set.
I hope that you would hold President Trump to upholding the
law. And if President Trump asked you to do anything illegal or
unconstitutional in your role as SBA administrator, would you say
no?
Senator LOEFFLER. Ranking Member Markey, the President is
not going to ask me to do that. I’m not going to create a hypo-
thetical situation here. I will faithfully uphold the law and Presi-
dent Trump is fighting for Americans.
Senator MARKEY. The President has already acted illegally twice
in the last five days. He fired Inspector——
Senator LOEFFLER. I respectfully disagree.
Senator MARKEY. He fired the Inspector General, that was illegal
under the law. He froze all funding on Monday night, that was also
against the law. So, it’s not as though he won’t ask you to do some-
thing illegal, unconstitutional. He’s been doing it all week. And this
is the first week. So, let me move on. Since its creation in 1982——
Senator LOEFFLER. Ranking Member, Markey, if I could, just for
the record, note that these were not illegal actions. I support the
President’s actions, it’s in his right to select the members of the ex-
ecutive branch, that’s what he was doing and he certainly is in the
right to stop wasteful spending as the President.
Senator MARKEY. No, no. The President violated a statute by fir-
ing the Inspector General. It requires 30 days’ notice, it’s a statute
passed by Congress, signed by a President. It’s a violation of law.
He does not have the ability to be a King, or a dictator. He has
to follow the law, Senator.
Senator LOEFFLER. I believe there’s precedent for this in his right
as the head of the executive.
Senator MARKEY. Now, let me move on to SBIR which has had
staggering success across the country and especially in Massachu-
setts. Overall, Massachusetts has received over 26,000 SBIR and
STTR awards, $9 billion in funding. And I strongly believe in these
programs and their potential for just supercharging our economy as
those programs have in Massachusetts and states all across the
country.
And when I met with you, you mentioned that SBIR awards
should be awarded on a merit basis. And I agree wholeheartedly
that merit drives innovation. So, will you commit to working with
me and the committee to ensuring that any SBIR/STTR reauthor-
ization effort maintains a merit-based process and does not limit
innovation?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely, Ranking Member, Markey, if I
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have the honor of being confirmed, I will look forward to working
with you. And I know we have a lot of common ground in support
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of small businesses, particularly the SBIR. And for those watching,
it’s the Small Business Innovation Research program that allows
the United States to be at the forefront of technological, biomedical,
and other types of national security related technology research
and innovation that is so important to this country. Thank you.
Senator MARKEY. Okay. Thank you.
Senator CURTIS [presiding]. Thank you. And now I will yield five
minutes to myself. And I’m so pleased, Senator to have you with
us and we’ll call you Senator, at least for now. When you came into
my office, I really appreciated the connection we made about small
businesses in our own lives, and in your family’s lives.
And like many of the members here, we can all identify with the
statistics in our state, I don’t think they’re very different, in mine,
its 99 percent are small business, over half of all the employees in
the state are small business. And it’s such an important part of our
economy, yet they often lack resources and don’t have some of the
advantages of larger businesses.
And one of the things we discussed when you were in my office
is how to best hook up the resources of your administration with
those small businesses in our state. You were generous, if I remem-
ber correctly, to offer to come out to our state, and I’m getting a
nod ahead, so I’m going to take a yes for that. And I think as part
of that, not just you coming out, but helping educate my small
businesses about what’s available to them and how they can access
those. So, we’ll look forward to your visit.
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you, Senator. I’m very excited about
visiting your town, I’m excited to have you in the Senate and ap-
preciated meeting with you and your staff in the basement office.
I used to have a basement office. It’s a great way to start. [Laugh-
ter.]
Senator CURTIS. It’s like a small business, right?
Senator LOEFFLER. That’s right. It’s a small business.
Senator CURTIS. I think we talked about—I had a small business
before I came here. My father was a small business owner. My
grandfather was a small business owner. My daughters and chil-
dren have small businesses. And one of the things that I don’t
think America realizes is that most of these small businesses strug-
gle just to keep the lights on, right? It’s hard paycheck to paycheck.
They don’t have a lot of money to do a lot of things other people
do. Part of that is they don’t have the money for lawyers and attor-
neys to deal with the excessive regulations that sometimes we can
put on them here from Washington, DC. And as a result, I believe
regulations are disproportionately hard on small businesses.
So, share with me for a minute what you can do to lighten this
burden and how do we make sure here in Washington that we’re
not the biggest problem with small businesses?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, thank you for recognizing that vital
issue to America’s 34 million small businesses many who have
fewer than nine employees. And, you know, in answering your
question, I’d like to speak to small businesses in saying you have
someone that, if confirmed, will understand what it’s like to have
a small business—to worry about meeting payroll, let alone paying
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the bills for the small business, particularly with the setbacks that
small businesses have had in the last four years, losing about 10
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percent on the top line revenue while seeing their costs increase by
20 percent due to inflation.
So, small businesses have lost ground. Now, the SBA can be a
way of helping small businesses combat what has been a tough
four years if we deploy the resources appropriately and prudently
so that the small businesses who need it most have access to that,
be it through capital, be it through technical assistance or other
ways of supporting entrepreneurship in this country, which is so
vital to our advancement on a global stage, but also within our
local communities.
These are the businesses that sponsor the softball teams. These
are the businesses that provide that first job, and they’re the ones
that never work from home. They show up, they turn out their
commitments to their customers, and that’s absolutely what we’re
going to do at the SBA.
Senator CURTIS. Great. I appreciate that. Looking forward to
working with you on that. Kind of a sister to that would be just
federal policy in general and we know we’re going to be talking
about tariffs in the upcoming days. Once again, these are dis-
proportionately hard on small businesses, and we had this con-
versation in my office too, would love to invite you to work with
the administration and the Senate as we move into a world where
tariffs are real reality, to figure out how to help small businesses
accommodate better to those tariffs’, things like a different runway
timeframe and when those hit the small businesses.
Can you just comment on how we can deal with our small busi-
nesses and what might be one of their most difficult challenges?
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you, Senator. If I have the honor of
being confirmed, I will be a voice for small business. But let me as-
sure you, there is no bigger small business champion than Presi-
dent Trump. He will make sure that small business has a voice at
the table. But I also think it’s important that we look at the data
and not the hyperbole that happens sometimes in the media.
President Trump was successful in implementing tariffs in his
first term, but also successful at keeping inflation right around
that 2 percent mark, which really, you know, some facts that the
media always overlooks. So, you have my commitment that small
businesses will be considered in all the decisions we make. And
that’s something that I know firsthand from President Trump. He
is their biggest advocate.
Senator CURTIS. I think I should yield my time. Thank you.
[Laughter.]
The CHAIR. And thank you Senator Curtis for manning the chair.
I now recognize Senator Hirono.
Senator HIRONO. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mrs. Loeffler, wel-
come. As part of my responsibility as a member of this committee,
as well as all the other committees on which I sit, I ask the fol-
lowing two initial questions of all nominees who come before any
of my committees. So, I’ll ask you, since you became a legal adult,
have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or com-
mitted any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual na-
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ture?
Senator LOEFFLER. No, Senator.
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Senator HIRONO. Have you ever faced discipline or entered into
a settlement relating to this kind of conduct?
Senator LOEFFLER. No, Senator.
Senator HIRONO. During the pandemic, you opposed Planned
Parenthood Health Centers receiving PPP Loans for ideological rea-
sons even though, like other nonprofits, they were eligible for loans
as later determined by SBAs own inspector general. Last week, the
President fired the IG without proper notice as required by law.
And it’s clear that President Trump believes he can do whatever
he wants. As the Administrator, should you be confirmed, would
you commit to implementing SBA programs in a fair and impartial
manner?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator Hirono, let me first say, I hope that
we could be able to meet, I’d requested several meetings. I keep the
people of Maui in my prayers. I know that they’re still struggling
through the disaster that occurred about 18 months ago, and I
hope that we can work together.
But let me correct with all due respect both premises of your
question. I objected to the Planned Parenthood receipt of Covid re-
lief loans because they did not fit the parameters of the program
because of the affiliation——
Senator HIRONO. Actually, Mrs. Loeffler, you do know that the
IG took a contrary position. So, all I’m asking is whether you can
be fair and impartial in being the administrator of SBA, a very im-
portant position. As you say, there are so many small businesses
throughout our country. So, just a simple affirmation that you can
do so is what I’m asking.
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I will faithfully uphold all of the
laws and ethics rules.
Senator HIRONO. Well, the thing is that, as I mentioned with
President Trump, the laws that he likes are the ones he likes, and
then the ones he doesn’t like, he considers them to be illegal. But
I will move on.
As a Senator, you co-sponsored the resolution, recognizing Brian
Sicknick, the U.S. Capitol police officer, who was brutally attacked
during the January 6th insurrection and who later died. As a re-
sult, last week, the President issued blanket pardons for the Janu-
ary 6th Insurrectionists, including those responsible for attacking
Officer Sicknick. Do you agree with the President’s decision to par-
don these violent offenders? Yes, or no?
Senator LOEFFLER. Yes, Senator. I strongly support President’s
pardon. These individuals were denied due process and it’s time to
get past political persecution in this country. That’s what Ameri-
cans voted for.
Senator HIRONO. Mrs. Loeffler, they were not denied due process
because they were tried and found guilty, and some of them even
admitted their guilt. So, I am disappointed that you agree that
these violent, basically criminals, should be pardoned.
Then, we get to the Lahaina Wildfire. In 2023, Lahaina experi-
enced wildfires that devastated the entire community, including
schools, homes, businesses, and more. Key to their recovery has
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been what I’ve described as the federal family of agencies, which
of course includes FEMA and SBA.
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Last week, the President proposed eliminating FEMA and he
said, ‘‘Let the states take care of the tornadoes and the hurricanes
and all of the other things that happen’’. So, I have seen the devas-
tation in Lahaina and the rural FEMA and SBA played in the re-
covery. The SBA itself provided hundreds of millions of dollars in
loans to help the Lahaina recover. It would be a huge mistake to
eliminate SBAs role in disaster response and relief, and have states
fend for themselves.
Do you agree with the President’s recent comments that states
should be left to fend for themselves during and after natural dis-
asters? That’s another yes or no question.
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I disagree with the premise. The
President strongly supports disaster relief. He was on the ground
just last week in North Carolina.
I also mentioned Hawaii in my opening remarks, that we do sup-
port the continued relief there.
Senator HIRONO. So, you support the continuing involvement of
the SBA in recovery.
Senator LOEFFLER. Yes. And the President’s been clear that indi-
vidual assistance will not be paused.
Senator HIRONO. I’m glad you do and that you support the con-
tinuing role, important role of SBA. When you were running for
U.S. Senate, you——
The CHAIR. The Senator’s time has expired,
Senator HIRONO. Time flies. Are you having a second round?
The CHAIR. We can do a second round. Yes.
Senator HIRONO. If not, I’ll certainly submit questions for the
record. Thank you.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Hirono. Next, I will recognize
Senator Budd for five minutes of questions.
Senator BUDD. Thank you, Chair, Senator Loeffler, congratula-
tions on your nomination. Thanks to your family and your friends
for being here and for leaving your role in private work twice to
serve our country. So, thank you for what you’re willing to do.
Your state and my state and several others have gone through
quite a lot since late September with Hurricane Helene. In the mo-
ments where I wasn’t in Western North Carolina myself, I was able
to see—if I was able to look up and see a television. It was you
standing there, I believe it was in Valdosta with President Trump,
committing that if he were reelected, he would support. He’s lived
up to that. He’s been back to Western North Carolina. I believe
he’s our rebuilder-in-chief.
So, one of the things that we saw was that the SBA under Presi-
dent Biden, it failed to notify Congress in a timely manner about
the depletion of the Disaster Relief Fund and didn’t fulfill their re-
porting requirements along the way. So, if confirmed, how would
you ensure timely and accurate reporting to Congress regarding
disaster loan account balances and funding needs? And how would
you address the transparency failures that we saw during the
Biden Administration?
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you for this important question, Sen-
ator. And let me assure you, my prayers are with the people of
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Western North Carolina. I know the President was there recently,
and is truly the rebuilder-in-chief, as are many private enterprises
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72
in your own state, Samaritan’s Purse, and I thank them for their
dedication across the Southeast. And my prayers are with the peo-
ple of Georgia and all impacted.
But let me say what happened on October 15th, when Congress
was shocked by the news that despite assurances two days earlier,
the disaster relief funding had run out. Now, in business, this
would never be tolerated. And we see examples of this everywhere
within this agency that I know we’re all trying to get our arms
around and make a quick correction on.
You have my commitment that we will ensure that disaster relief
funding is there for hardworking Americans when they need it.
And I look forward to your feedback on how the response has been
so that we can strengthen the program and having the trans-
parency so that this committee is routinely apprised of the status
of the agency across all vectors that we’re serving the American
people on.
Senator BUDD. Thank you for that. So, the SBA disaster loan
program, you know, it’s critical in supporting small businesses, as
you’ve mentioned in a few of your earlier remarks and also being
there to help communities during crises. But we have recent disas-
ters like Hawaii or for us, Helene, that really revealed a lot of real
shortcomings in the SBAs management and oversight of its dis-
aster loan portfolio.
So, these have led to funding shortfalls, lack of transparency, ad-
ministrative inefficiency that really hindered a timely disaster re-
sponse and recovery. The people of Western North Carolina, I know
of North Georgia as well, they felt these failures firsthand when
they needed assistance. Most instead, they were left waiting due to
the SBA’s mismanagement during a time of dire need.
So, Senator, will you commit to working with my office, and this
committee to address these shortcomings and ensure that the SBA
is fully prepared to respond effectively to the needs of businesses
in North Georgia, Western North Carolina, and the other states
that are in need from disasters?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely Senator, you have my commit-
ment. Thank you.
Senator BUDD. Senator, the numbers paint a troubling picture
for small businesses. You know, there was a survey from 2023–
2024. It was the Intuit QuickBooks Small Business Index, and it
says that small businesses employment declined over 51,000 jobs.
And it also said that revenue fell on average for those businesses
about $12,000, that’s a lot for a small business. So, and that’s also
the steepest year over year decline since the Obama administration
of 2015.
That same time, the 2024 Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business
Voices survey revealed that 77 percent of small businesses are
deeply concerned about their ability to access the capital that they
need to operate reliably. So, as you know, small businesses, it
makes up the bulk of our economy. I think President Trump has
said small business is big business. So, and this level of decline is,
I would imagine, you would think as well is it’s unacceptable. So,
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under President Trump’s leadership, how can we expect to see a
new golden age for our small businesses?
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Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely. Thank you for that question, be-
cause President Trump is restoring the golden era for all Ameri-
cans by strengthening our economy, making our country more safe
and secure, and ensuring wasteful taxpayer spending is not driving
up inflation. Inflation is the number one problem, not only facing
families, but small businesses. They’re looking at 20 percent higher
costs on at least 10 percent lower revenues. That’s an
unsustainable situation for our employers who are putting it all on
the line. And small businesses have my commitment that I will
have their back.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Budd. I now recognize Senator
Schiff for five minutes of questions.
Senator SCHIFF. Thank you, Madam Chair. It’s an honor to serve
on this committee and represent California’s 4.2 million small busi-
nesses, including tech, startups, nonprofits, childcare centers, rural
businesses, the arts and entertainment industry, and women and
minority owned businesses. That number is growing daily, and I
am very proud to represent these incredible business owners,
innovators, and hardworking employees. Senator Loeffler, I appre-
ciated the conversation that we had last week. I think it was last
week. The weeks have seemed endless these days.
As you know very well, horrific wildfires and high winds have
ravaged California over the last month, displacing thousands of
families and destroying homes, schools, community centers, places
of worship, and countless small businesses. As these fires have im-
pacted the livelihood of innumerable Californians, it is crucial that
we know California will have the full support of the federal govern-
ment to respond, to recover, and to rebuild. And we must rebuild
resiliently.
The SBA provides disaster assistance for homeowners, renters,
nonprofits, and businesses of all sizes affected by natural disasters.
I got to see this really in operation, visiting the Discovery Resource
Centers in Los Angeles, in Westwood, and in Pasadena. SBA was
on hand in large numbers to help small business owners and home-
owners find what resources were available to them to help them re-
cover and rebuild.
I do want to echo the concern raised by my colleague, Senator
Markey, about the freeze on federal funding. I know there has been
a subsequent statement saying that the freeze order has been lift-
ed, but not the freeze. None of us really know how to make heads
or tails of that. But what concerns me is that even if the adminis-
tration says that help to individuals will not be affected by this, if
federal funding to SBA is curtailed, then it means SBA cannot
make loans to individuals and to small businesses. And at a time
when California’s desperately need that help, any delay, any uncer-
tainty will just add additional injury.
I’ve also been distressed by some of the calls to condition funding
to California. California has contributed more to the recovery of
other states than any other state of the Union. And I want to ask
you, first of all, to recommit to something we discussed privately,
and that is to ensuring if confirmed, that all states, not just Cali-
fornia, but all states, receive speedy relief for disaster victims and
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survivors without regard for whether a state is red or blue, or
green, or yellow, or anything else. Are you committed to in a color-
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74
blind political-affiliation blind way, make sure that SBA assistance
is speedily provided to small businesses in every state?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I appreciated our time in being in
your office and discussing this important matter. Obviously, my
prayers are with California, but our efforts will be there, as well
as President Trump demonstrated by his first official trip.
Typically, Presidents might fly outside the country. He went to
California. He immediately appointed a task force, getting the very
capable, Rick Grenell, involved. I think the President’s actions have
demonstrated his support for disaster relief. He’s done it effectively
in in his last term, and I will support his efforts and leadership to
ensure the people of California have the resources they need under
President Trump’s leadership.
Senator SCHIFF. Well, let me just say I was grateful the Presi-
dent came to Los Angeles. I felt that if he saw the damage, he
could not help but be moved, and I think and hope that he was.
I am concerned, though, about some of the statements he has made
about tying disaster assistance to the passage of completely unre-
lated voter ID laws, or frankly, any other unrelated policy matter.
Let me also raise the need to, not just with respect to the dis-
aster in California, but elsewhere, make sure that the SBA is pro-
ceeding a pace with a sense of urgency, that it is efficiently and ef-
fectively processing loan applications. I realize the balance is dif-
ficult because you have to avoid fraud, and there was massive
fraud among some who were applying for Covid relief. We do not
want to see that repeated, but nevertheless, we don’t want to see
excessive delays either.
Frankly, I think firing the inspector general harms the ability to
fare out waste, and fraud, and abuse. But are you committed to
doing everything you can to provide speedy attention to SBA appli-
cations while providing at the same time safeguards to avoid
fraud?
Senator LOEFFLER. Yes, I am Senator. Thank you.
Senator SCHIFF. Thank you, Madam Chair—or Mr. Chairman?
Senator HAWLEY [presiding]. Thank you very much, Senator. On
behalf of the chair, I’ll recognize myself. Senator Loeffler, it’s great
to see you. Thank you for being willing to do this job. As you and
I discussed when we met in my office, I loved serving with you. You
were a terrific Senator, and I’m just so glad that you’re willing to
do this job. It’s going to be a great, great service to our country.
Let me just ask you a question or two, to start with, about the
priorities at SBA. I noticed that on day one of his administration,
the last President issued an executive order directing federal agen-
cies to adopt a broad racial equity agenda. And that was particu-
larly a focus of SBA over the last four years.
In fact, according to one report, by far, the largest program that
uses racial preferences in the federal government is the 8(a) Pro-
gram run by SBA. To be eligible for it, companies had to show var-
ious racial and other characteristics in order to access funding. A
federal court in Tennessee ruled it unconstitutional. Another fed-
eral court struck down a similar requirement, also administered by
SBA, the Restaurant Revitalization Fund.
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Here’s my question to you. President Trump has now, thankfully,
with his own executive order, said we’re going to put a stop to
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these DEI programs. How do you see implementing that at SBA,
and will you get SBA refocused on actually helping small busi-
nesses no matter who the owner is, no matter where they are?
There’ll be no tipping of the scales in order to fit some bureaucrat’s
agenda. We’re going to help those in need, get them stood up. We’re
going to execute on the mission of SBA. Tell us what you’ll do
about that?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, thank you. Thank you, and I appre-
ciate the time we spent in your office discussing these matters. Im-
portantly, President Trump’s EO overturns a divisive and illegal
DEI program that was spread throughout the government, and
particularly within the SBA. This will allow us to reduce the bur-
dens on small business for costly implementation of needless pro-
grams.
But moreover, I think the best way we can serve small busi-
nesses is making SBA lending available to all who qualify, as op-
posed to picking winners and losers, and pitting Americans against
one another. So, you have my full commitment that we will root
that out and make sure that it is broadly available to all who qual-
ify.
Senator HAWLEY. That’s a fantastic answer. I’m glad to hear it.
And let me just ask you about another priority. While the last ad-
ministration’s Small Business Administration was focused on this
DEI agenda, what it was not doing was helping people in rural
areas of the country, like most of my state.
In Fiscal Year 2024, just to take one example, SBA made 103,000
loans. Only 12,000 of those went to rural businesses. That’s just
over 12 percent of SBA’s $56 billion in capital last fiscal year. Only
$6 billion went to rural businesses. That’s just 11 percent there.
You want to talk about inequity? There’s an imbalance between
urban and rural.
And listen, we’ve got urban centers in my state as well. I’m all
for small businesses in urban centers getting what they qualify for.
But would you agree with me that our small businesses in rural
America are extremely important? They’re often the lifeblood of our
communities. Like, the small town where I grew up, 4,000 people,
relies on small businesses.
What will you do to make sure that small business in rural
America is a priority? That they’re getting access to the funds that
they qualify for, and we’re doing everything we can to help these
small businesses revitalize these communities?
Senator LOEFFLER. Well, Senator, not only do I agree with you,
I’ve lived it. I was raised in a family of fourth generation small
business. My nearest town had 600 people in it, and my high school
had 8 small towns. Many of my fellow students, parents, were
small business owners. I saw the hard work that they did, the com-
plexity of dealing with increased federal regulation even back then.
And we have to ensure that small businesses in rural commu-
nities are getting the support they need. I understand it firsthand.
And I know that we can do better, and we will do better because
this is an area that we can grow in terms of bringing manufac-
turing, ‘‘Made in America’’, again, can come back driven by rural
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America and paying attention to people that have been forgotten
about. That’s what President Trump does. He remembers the for-
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gotten men and women working so hard in this country to make
it work.
Senator HAWLEY. Fantastic. Well, I welcome your focus on this.
I look forward to working with you. Let me ask you just about
fraud, and waste, and abuse. And you’ve talked about this some.
I think your answers have been very heartening. You remember,
in fact, you referenced it at the height of the pandemic. Congress
enacted this so-called CARES Act to provide very necessary relief
to millions of Americans. We also, at the same time, created, how-
ever, a Special Inspector General to monitor any fraud and abuse
in that program.
Now, for reasons that continue to elude me, the last administra-
tion, the last President when he came to office, almost immediately
limited the remit of this Special Inspector General, then tried to ef-
fectively defund it. And now, we find out hundreds of billions of
dollars were wasted or fraudulently dispersed, or not properly paid
back under these programs.
Would you agree with me that we need the Special Inspector
General, SIGPR, we need that office to be properly funded. We
need it to be given the jurisdictional authority that it deserves.
Senator Ernst has a bill to make sure that SIGPR gets that juris-
dictional authority. Would you support that? And can you talk to
us about the need to be rooting out fraud, and abuse, and corrup-
tion?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely. Senator, if I’m confirmed, I look
forward to working with this committee to have a higher standard
of accountability, to act with more urgency, to have a zero-tolerance
policy with regard to fraud, and to making taxpayers whole. We
have to get back to that accountability and getting those funds
back into taxpayer hands as soon as possible.
Senator HAWLEY. Very good. Thank you. And now, I’ll recognize
Senator Shaheen.
Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you. Congratulations, Senator Loeffler
on your nomination, and thank you for your willingness to serve.
Welcome to all your family and friends who are here with you this
afternoon.
New Hampshire, like many of the states represented on this
committee, has over 99 percent of its businesses who are small
businesses. I certainly agree with the fact that small businesses
are the lifeblood of this country. Two-thirds of jobs are created from
small businesses. My favorite statistic about our small businesses
is that they create 16 times more patents than large businesses.
So, it’s critical that we provide assistance to ensure that they
thrive.
Now, I heard from one of our businesses in New Hampshire yes-
terday that sells agricultural equipment to universities, and they
help research feed efficiency to help farmers. He was worried about
the halt to funding this week. So, the order that freezes spending
caused him to worry about his businesses. So, what would you say
to that business owner so that they’re reassured that their orders
are going to continue?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I appreciated the chance to meet
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with you in your office, and with your staff, and your leadership
in this committee as well.
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Certainly, the facts are that no individual assistance was or is
part of that pause. What the President is rightfully doing is ful-
filling his commitment that overwhelmingly Americans agree with,
which is to root out waste, fraud, and abuse in spending programs.
And it’s not uncommon for Presidents to come in and put a pause
on agency discretionary funds that could be contributing to the
problems we have with debt, with inflation.
And there’s no bigger champion of small businesses than Presi-
dent Trump. He’s told me, personally, that small business is big
business and he gets it. So, small businesses can be assured that
they will have a champion in me as well. Having been raised in a
small family business, I know the risks that small business opera-
tors bear every day, and we will ensure that they have a voice in
this administration, and they do.
Senator SHAHEEN. Well, I certainly agree that it’s reasonable to
review how programs are working, and that we all should be in
favor of getting rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. That doesn’t help
anybody. I think what’s unprecedented about the current situation
is the uncertainty that it creates for so many of the people who
benefit from those programs, and the fact that it’s so broad and far-
reaching.
I enjoyed the opportunity to meet with you, and thank you for
coming in and talking. One of the things that we discussed was the
importance of our field offices within the SBA. And I was pleased
that Chair Ernst mentioned the importance of ensuring that we
keep people in the field offices and not reduce those staff members,
because that’s where so much of the help for our small businesses
comes from.
So, can you reassure us that you will focus to make sure that the
district offices have the support they need and are able to staff up
in the way that helps our small businesses?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely. Senator, if confirmed, I can as-
sure you, we will put an emphasis on the field. And we have in the
SBA 10 regional offices and then 68 field district offices. And the
great aspect of this is we can be out with our entrepreneurs, with
our small businesses, not only delivering capital, but the technical
support and counseling that they need to succeed. Because we
know that when small businesses have the counseling and
mentorship that they need to fill in any gaps, they are more suc-
cessful.
And I’ve heard so many great stories from small businesses. I
know you hear them every day who rely on just that extra little
help to become successful. I’ve seen them in our own community.
So, you have my commitment. I look forward to visiting your state
as well.
Senator SHAHEEN. Good. Thank you. We look forward to having
you come to New Hampshire. One of the most important roles you
will have is as a spokesperson for small businesses. I was pleased
that President Trump continues to maintain the SBA adminis-
trator as a member of his cabinet. I think that’s very important.
And one of the issues that I’ve been proud to work on that I
think we need to continue to focus on for our small businesses is
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helping them access foreign markets. Because so many, 99 percent
of markets, are outside of the United States, but only about 3 per-
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cent of small and medium-sized businesses do business outside of
the United States.
I was proud to help create the State Trade Expansion Program,
the STEP program. I would hope that, again, you would commit to
continuing to support that program and helping our small busi-
nesses get into those international markets.
Senator LOEFFLER. Certainly. The STEP program is a very ap-
pealing program to understand how we can broaden our work with
exports, and small businesses can play a tremendous role there. I
look forward to working with you and the entire committee to see
where we can broaden the export program and make this more effi-
cient, and to deliver more wins for small businesses.
Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The CHAIR [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Shaheen. I’ll recog-
nize Senator Young for five minutes.
Senator YOUNG. Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome, Senator
Loeffler. It’s great to see you here today. And congrats once again
on this nomination. It’s good to see your husband, Jeff, a Hoosier,
fellow mid-westerner behind you as well.
When my father heard not only that I was elected to the United
States Senate, but that I was going to sit on the Small Business
Committee in the U.S. Senate, I can’t tell you how excited he was.
He perhaps perceived this to be known as the most powerful com-
mittee in the U.S. Senate. It’s not always known for that, but it
was the most important committee to my dad. Because when my
dad was getting started in the business, he relied on SBA support
loans in particular to help him grow his business. And for him, this
was the most important committee.
And there’s a certain wisdom to that as you travel around. As we
travel around our various states, we see that most jobs these days
are actually created, not by large enterprises, because those come
and those go—they’re great for ribbon cutting sometimes—but it’s
usually the smaller enterprises.
And to the extent we can optimize our policies so that more peo-
ple will start these small businesses and they grow into larger
businesses, that’s kind of the key to economic development. So,
really important post you’re going to be occupying here. If con-
firmed, how are you going to work to keep our small businesses
competitive today and resilient tomorrow? Kind of an open-ended
question.
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you, Senator. And I agree with your
dad. I think I couldn’t be more humbled by this awesome responsi-
bility for small businesses that power our local communities, that
do create two out of every three new jobs in America. That’s incred-
ibly powerful.
So, I think there’s a number of things we can do to make small
business more competitive. First of all, respecting that small busi-
ness is about free enterprise and it’s not about the government. So,
we have to look at ourselves and say, what are we doing within
this agency to make it harder for small businesses to access capital,
to access perhaps government contracting or counseling.
Are we there for them? A big part of that is getting everyone
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back in the office, off the golf course, into the office, being aligned
with our small businesses where they are on Main Street and not
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K Street. So, my focus is certainly going to be on the field activity.
Making sure everyone in the agency’s accountable, and making
sure the programs actually work for small business. We’ll be doing
a deep dive.
Senator YOUNG. So, I think, directionally, you’re absolutely on
the right course, and that’s the most important thing, at this point.
Do you have specific ideas about how SBA might be modernized
and improved under your leadership?
Senator LOEFFLER. Well, certainly, I don’t want to get ahead of
myself. If I have the honor of being confirmed, I would look at a
broad range of efficiency, both cost and technological efficiencies
that could be gained. I’ll be looking at organizational design. I’ll be
looking at skill sets and training that might be needed to deliver
our services to increase our response times to small businesses.
And we’ll be metrics driven. We’ll have goals, and we’ll be reporting
that out to this committee.
Senator YOUNG. Well, I think there are members of this com-
mittee, count me in, who want to help you and the rest of the ad-
ministration be successful as it relates to small businesses and the
Small Business Administration.
One of the things that you might consider doing is prioritizing
an incentive for new businesses and small businesses to adopt the
latest technologies. I just had a great exchange with Howard
Lutnick, the Secretary of Commerce nominee, and we emphasized
the importance of digital trade, which he strongly supports, unlike
unfortunately, the previous administration. But I think that’s en-
couraging.
But I’ve related to the Small Business Administration, I found
that many Hoosier small businesses rely on digital tools, but the
law doesn’t clearly state if these costs qualify within the 7(a) loan
program. So, if someone wants to buy an AI technology, for exam-
ple, it’s unclear if the law will include that. So, I’ve introduced leg-
islation along with Senators Rosen, Budd, and Shaheen, the Small
Business Technological Advancement Act that would clarify and
promote the purchase of digital tools with small businesses. If con-
firmed, would you be willing to work with me on this topic?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator Young, absolutely. If confirmed, I
would be. AI is at the forefront of both as President Trump said,
a wakeup call to American innovation, but potentially as tools for
automating small businesses, making them more efficient. And
whether it’s things like co-pilots or agents, I would support looking
at that as a solution.
Senator YOUNG. Well, thank you. And I will be submitting a
question for the record on another important topic I know to you
in our small businesses about how you intend to address bolstering
SBA’s cybersecurity infrastructure. Thanks so much.
The CHAIR. Very good. Thank you, Senator Young. Senator
Coons.
Senator COONS. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Senator.
Great to be with you, and thank you to your family and those who
are here to support you. As I hope you know, your predecessor in
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the this position, in the previous two administrations, I’ve had a
particularly strong working relationship with. SBA Administrator
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McMahon came to visit Delaware several times. We worked well to-
gether.
I would agree, my dad said the same thing, to Senator Young’s
comment. My dad started and ran a small manufacturing business,
and he thought this was the most exciting committee I could pos-
sibly be on. And it has been in the past, a very productive com-
mittee. My hope is that we will get back to churning out legislation
that works with you, that we will appropriately authorize and ap-
propriate funds, review funds and programs.
When we had a chance to meet two weeks ago, one of the pro-
grams I brought up was SCORE, which I suspect everyone knows,
was founded in Wilmington, Delaware, thus, my obsession with
SCORE. But I think one of the highest, federally-appropriated dol-
lar for actual impact programs in history. There’s more than 10,000
volunteers through SCORE who deliver roughly 4 million hours a
year of free business plan consulting.
SCORE clients return $59 in tax revenue for every dollar appro-
priated to SCORE. It needs to be reauthorized. We need to look at
it to ensure it’s operating well and that there’s accountability.
Would you support SCORE and its reauthorization, and work with
me to achieve a bipartisan reauthorization, if confirmed?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator Coons, I thank you for the time
shared in your office. I was also just delighted to hear now about
your dad’s sentiments. I agree. And I look forward to working with
you to review SCORE, see how it can be made more robust, and
to evaluating the program, and sharing all of that data with this
committee so that we have a very collaborative approach to ensur-
ing our efforts are making a difference for small businesses.
As you note, it’s definitely had an impact, and we want to make
sure that programs that work are made available to more entre-
preneurs.
Senator COONS. Well, those 10,000 volunteers help more than
300,000 entrepreneurs, so I’m very hopeful we can work together
on that.
A piece of legislation, Senator Rubio and I, now Secretary Rubio,
and I worked on for several Congresses was to help make sure that
SBIR grantees actually produce commercialized technology. About
half of SBIR awards lead to commercialize technology, but half
don’t. And this would specifically authorize some of the pre-market
scale up costs through SBIR. It’s called the RAMP for Innovators
Act.
The SBA plays a critical role in coordinating SBIR activities
across the whole government. I’d be interested in what your prior-
ities would be for SBIR as a program, and whether you would help
work with us on reauthorization and ensuring that it doesn’t just
fund endless research, but actually funds the leap to the market-
place.
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely, Senator. I think the Small Busi-
ness Innovation Research grants are critical to solving some of the
challenges America has in scaling our technological innovations
quickly. The program gives more dry powder and runway to these
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important technological breakthroughs, whether in the area of bio-
science technology, AI, drones, mission-critical things to our na-
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tional defense. That would not be possible without the support of
research institutions.
So, I look forward to collaborating with this entire committee on
the reauthorization and reviewing the program for where it can be
strengthened to produce more efficient results, and to highlighting
some of the wins to ensure that these are wins that generate a
powerful return on taxpayer investments.
Senator COONS. Another concern I’ve expressed in previous Con-
gresses is the amount of federal contracting money that’s going to
small businesses. Small businesses continue to get a robust piece
of the total federal pie. I think it’s 28 percent, which exceeds the
target, but it’s for a smaller and smaller number of larger and larg-
er small business firms.
I’d also be interested in working with you to make sure that we
actually are contracting, federally, as broadly as possible to as
many small businesses as possible. I think as literally every col-
league has referenced, 98 percent of the businesses in my state,
even in the State of Delaware, which has a whole lot of incorpora-
tion are small businesses.
Would you work with me to make sure that we achieve those
goals in terms of small business contracting?
Senator LOEFFLER. Absolutely. Senator, I’ve confirmed I would
like to work with you on that. I do agree that this program is vital
for small businesses to have an awareness of and to have access
to the program. If the programs become too complex that only a se-
lect few can find their way in, that voids the program’s
foundational beginnings.
So, I would look forward to working with the entire committee
to ensure small businesses have an additional path to success. And
I also wanted to acknowledge Administrator McMahon and her
great work. And I hope that we can have the same constructive,
collaborative great relationship working for small businesses.
Thank you.
Senator COONS. I look forward to it. Thank you, Senator.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Coons. Senator Husted.
Senator HUSTED. Thank you, Chair Ernst, and Ranking Member,
and my fellow colleagues. Great to join you on the Small Business
Committee. And, Senator Loeffler, congratulations on your nomina-
tion, and look forward to supporting you when your nomination
comes to the Senate floor.
I know you are entering this job at a difficult time in the sense
that there have been a lot of questions about fraud that occurred
and loss of money that has occurred during the pandemic. And
there will be an expectation of accountability, which there should
be for every tax dollar we spend.
But at the same time, we know that speed is—you know, time
is money in business, and small businesses, particularly during a
time of natural disaster or when they’re just really trying to be
able to make ends meet, to keep the business open and they may
need help from the SBA. So, that time is also so very important.
So, just give me some insights and to the committee as to how
you expect to balance that accountability and speed?
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Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you, Senator. And thank you for mak-
ing time to meet in your first week here in the Senate. I enjoyed
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our conversation and know that small businesses have a champion
based on your work in Ohio for them.
You ask a critically important question about accountability of
these programs. Americans are expecting them to be there when
they need them. When they’re not, it creates yet another layer of
uncertainty at a time of devastation, or at least uncertainty if
you’re forming a small business.
So, certainly, what we need to do is have a review of these pro-
grams, what’s working, what’s not working, and make sure that it’s
data-driven. That we look holistically across the 7(a) program, the
Disaster Relief Program, and understanding what went wrong.
What are the parameters of the program? Where have we gone out-
side the parameters and why, and what work we might do with
Congress to strengthen these programs so that they’re accessible.
Obviously, Chair Ernst has pointed out rising delinquencies in
the 7(a) loan program, rising delayed payments or early defaults.
And these are the types of things that red flags should be put up
sooner. We need greater accountability in this agency, and cer-
tainly we can’t find out two days later when we had assurances
that there was a disaster fund ready for hurricane victims, that it’s
actually dry. That’s an abuse of taxpayer dollars and of the pro-
gram, and we need to get to the bottom of it.
So, you have my assurance that if confirmed, we will work close-
ly to be a steward of taxpayer dollars be accountable to this com-
mittee. And I know President Trump strongly supports the small
business community having the resources they need in an efficient
manner that respects taxpayer dollars.
Because, let’s face it, the 7(a) loan program, the bread-and-butter
loans that small businesses use to start, is meant to operate at a
zero subsidy. Meaning, taxpayers do not fund these programs. They
should pay for themselves when they operate appropriately, and
they generally do that. But we’re in a position right now as this
year starts that that may not happen. So, we need to investigate
that.
Senator HUSTED. Great. One more thought. One of the things
that I always talk to my team about is customer service. How do
we serve people well? Are we listening to our customer? And then,
what are they telling us, and how are we turning that information
back to into change enhancements? Things like that, that we can
do.
So, I’m interested in your thoughts on how you intend to do that,
and then encourage you to let us know what you learn so that we
can be better in what we do and how we serve those same cus-
tomers.
Senator LOEFFLER. This is an area that I really look forward to
getting into. The field program, the field operation that SBA has
could be incredibly powerful to increasing responsiveness, to tai-
loring programs that are more efficient, to deliver resources to
small businesses in a way that the original formation of the agen-
cy’s attempt was meant to do.
So, I think, first of all, getting people back to work, getting peo-
ple out in the field, tracking the data, and using that feedback loop.
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Looking at how long our case times are open, how long is a case
open when someone comes to us with a question? How long do they
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have to wait on the phone for someone to answer it? When you’re
a small business person, you don’t have any extra time. And I
think what small businesses want to know is that there are people
at this agency that understand the challenges and the complexities
that they already deal with. And this agency doesn’t need to be one
of them. So, we want to be part of the solution, not the problem.
Senator HUSTED. Great. Thank you.
The CHAIR. Wonderful. Thank you, and welcome to the com-
mittee. Senator Rosen, five minutes, please. Thank you.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you, Chair Ernst, Ranking Member Mar-
key, for holding this hearing. And Senator Loeffler, when you came
to the Senate, your office was a cross of mine from Russell. And
I appreciate your service to the nation. You know how this place
works and your willingness to serve again. And I, too, have had a
great relationship with all the past administrators under both ad-
ministrations because small business matters, and I look forward
to having the same ones with you.
In our discussions, we talked about the challenges and the re-
sources and just being able to get to the people who need it and
help them do what is their dream or their idea, really important.
So, Chair Ernst and I, we’ve had a bill out there for a while we
talked about a little bit, too. It’s on childcare, because childcare is
so important and the rising cost of childcare, severe shortage of af-
fordable options, they’re really financially squeezing. Not just Ne-
vada families, I would say families all over this country, urban and
rural.
And lack of access to childcare. It’s really a problem for small
business and parents alike. And it creates barriers for people who
want to start or even grow their business, right? And it makes it
difficult for small businesses sometimes to retain employees be-
cause they struggle to find affordable childcare. So, this is why we
know this crisis demands action.
And, yesterday, we reintroduced our bill, again, Chair Ernst and
I, the Small Business Childcare Investment Act. Our bipartisan bill
will increase the availability of affordable, high-quality childcare
for working families by allowing nonprofits, your boys and girls
clubs, your YMCA, your church, your mosque, your synagogue,
whatever that is. I’ve even talked to senior centers in rural areas.
They have a big footprint commercial kitchen. They said we’re a
place where the community, we could put up childcare, right?
And so, this program doesn’t cost anything. It just lets down the
guardrail so that nonprofits have the opportunity to apply for the
same resources. And now they can put this affordable childcare.
They’re nonprofit, they don’t need to make a profit. And we look
forward to getting it over the finish line as quickly as possible.
And so, can you discuss a little bit how you feel about the
childcare crisis, how it impacts small business, and are you open
to SBA expanding access to resources and loans to nonprofits?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, thank you for the question, and ap-
preciated our time together in your office to hear more about Ne-
vadans’ needs and how the SBA can be part of it. And I think
childcare is a relevant issue in every single state across this coun-
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try. Small businesses, particularly given the need to provide for
childcare for the owner—like, if you’re a small business owner or
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an employee, it cuts across every single person that touches a small
business.
And I think small businesses can be part of the solution. And I’d
love to work with you and Chair Ernst to review this potential so-
lution and to look at other ways that the SBA might support par-
ents and children as they work in small businesses. So, I look for-
ward to those conversations and the input of the rest of the com-
mittee as well.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you. And something we had a great talk
about was our veterans and how entrepreneurial they are, and how
much they take the things that they’ve learned at the military, and
they can translate those to things when they come home.
And so, Nevada, we are home to over 200,000 veterans and over
23,000 veteran-owned small businesses. And despite this, Nevada
was without, for the longest time, a dedicated in-state Veterans
Business Outreach Center, easier to say VBOC, until 2023, when
at my urging, we pushed the administration to have Nevada have
its first SBA VBOC. And our veterans, our transitioning service
members, they receive that tailored support they need. And like I
said, we talked about it with your own dad and how he started his
business. It was such a great story. So, I appreciate you shared
that with me.
So, in the Fiscal Year 2025 budget, SBA requested an increase
for veterans’ outreach underscoring the importance of VBOCs and
helping ease the transition from active duty to civilian life. So,
under your leadership what do you see as the future for the Vet-
erans Business Outreach Center and how it helps?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I couldn’t agree more. Our veterans
need the support of the SBA. And if confirmed, I would love to
work with all of you on how do we better support our veterans. As
I mentioned, my father learned truck driving skills in the Air Na-
tional Guard that resulted in our small trucking business. We
know that veterans have untapped potential that we can help un-
leash. I will commit to working with this committee and even
across this administration with Secretary Collins to ensure that
our veterans have the resources that they so deserve.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you. And I’ll submit the rest of my ques-
tions for the record, but they’re mostly on workforce development.
We had a good chance to talk about how we train people right
where they are, to give them the skills they need to stay in their
communities and build back those neighborhoods, and diners, and
all of that, wherever they are, and how important it is. So, I look
forward to hearing back from you and working with you.
Senator LOEFFLER. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Senator Rosen. And we will start a sec-
ond round of questions. I believe Senator Markey, our ranking
member, has another question. Thank you.
Senator MARKEY. Thank you. And one of the benefits of being
Chair or Ranking Member is all the other members leave, and they
don’t even know that there’s a hearing that continues, and we get
to ask more questions.
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So, earlier, one of the Republican Senators asked you, Senator,
about the DEI executive orders and mentioned the 8(a) business
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development program for socially and economically disadvantaged
small businesses, that it was deemed unconstitutional. It was not
deemed unconstitutional. The application process had to change
and the program continues.
So, with that clarification, earlier, you said, Senator, that Presi-
dent Trump’s executive order overturned DEI SBA programs. And,
again, 8(a) for socially and economically disadvantaged small busi-
nesses, it’s codified. So, in your opinion, does an executive order
overturn a law that was put on the books by this committee on a
bipartisan basis?
Senator LOEFFLER. Ranking Member Markey, thank you for the
question. I think the important thing to note here is I support
President Trump’s executive order overturning DEI programs, but
I’ve also committed——
Senator MARKEY. But can an executive order overturn——
Senator LOEFFLER [continuing]. To following the law——
Senator MARKEY. I’m sorry. Please, go on.
Senator LOEFFLER. Yes. I’ve committed to following the law. We
will work with the administration to ensure that all Americans
have access to the programs that exist in the Small Business Ad-
ministration under the law, and we’ll continue to keep this com-
mittee updated as to any modifications as we go.
Senator MARKEY. So, do you believe the law does, in fact—an ex-
ecutive order does, in fact, overturn a law passed by the House and
Senate, and signed by a President? Is that your conclusion that
President Trump is right and that all DEI programs are now re-
moved?
Senator LOEFFLER. Ranking Member Markey, I’ve committed to
you that I will uphold the law in all the programs, and we will
communicate any changes to the programs to this committee.
Senator MARKEY. You believe that, therefore, that you’re author-
ized to change DEI programs because of an executive order, even
though it’s statutorily mandated that those programs are on the
books?
Senator LOEFFLER. I support President Trump’s executive orders,
and we will ensure that we follow the law in the administration of
this SBA.
Senator MARKEY. Okay. Well, the Small Business Administration
administers a number of programs that aim to level the playing
field for entrepreneurs from underserved communities that have
faced historical barriers to small business ownership due to dis-
crimination and prejudice.
The programs that this committee has put on the books include
the service-disabled, veterans-owned small businesses, women’s
business centers, and 8(a) business development programs for the
disadvantaged. And these programs, and many others like them,
are codified into statute, and recent actions by President Trump
seek to rescind these so-called DEI initiatives.
But as Administrator, President Trump’s executive order would
also direct you to terminate diversity, equity, inclusion, and acces-
sibility positions at SBA. And in light of that, we just have to re-
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member that executive orders cannot change or rescind Congres-
sional mandates. We are the Article 1 branch of government.
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When those red coats were going down Massachusetts Avenue in
Massachusetts, and the Minutemen and women came out in Lex-
ington and Concord, they were saying no taxation without rep-
resentation. They already had a King. They could pick a Prime
Minister or a President, but they were going to have a House and
Senate, which is why we’re Article 1 in the Constitution. That’s
what the Minutemen and women all across our country were fight-
ing for.
And so, Trump might think he can overturn what we do here,
but that’s what the revolution was all about. It was about having
representation on this committee. And you may say that you’re
going to support him and that he’s the law, but he’s not the law.
And I just want to continue this conversation with you because I
just think that there has to be an understanding that supporting
women-owned businesses——
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I can assure you I will support——
Senator MARKEY. Do you believe supporting women-owned busi-
nesses is DEI?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I’ve never said that. Senator, I can
assure you that I will uphold the law. I was a women-owned busi-
ness. I had a majority, minority women-owned business for a dec-
ade. I understand the importance of it. By having a well-func-
tioning agency is the best way that we can assure that there is
more access to these programs by a diverse range of communities
without picking winners and losers. That’s what the American peo-
ple want. That’s why President Trump won in a landslide, because
the American people want fairness and merit brought back. And
you and I have discussed that in your office. That’s what this coun-
try’s about.
Senator MARKEY. But you do understand that it has to be the
Congress that changes the laws, it can’t be done by executive
order?
Senator LOEFFLER. Yes, Senator, I will uphold the law.
Senator MARKEY. Okay. Thank you.
The CHAIR. Thank you, Ranking Member Markey. And I’ll make
some comments to this discussion as well. And we know that there
are many programs that are codified. They are in law. And you will
uphold the law, and I appreciate that answer.
Unfortunately, what we did see during the Biden Administration
was through a lot of supplemental movement from the administra-
tion, they did put into place different DEI programs within the
SBA. So, the executive order is likely to immediately roll back the
Biden era DEI mandates that were supplemental, but those that
are not legally binding.
So, yes, I anticipate that you will follow the law, Senator Loef-
fler, should you be confirmed, and you’re well on your way. I will
assume your confirmation, not you. But again, there are many
things that President Biden took within his own action, his own
prerogative, within the SBA, that was not codified nor approved by
this committee.
So, we will ensure that you follow the law, Senator Loeffler. But
certainly, we can roll back the things that were unilaterally done
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by President Biden in the SBA. Thank you. And I will recognize
Senator Cantwell for five minutes.
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Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Chair Ernst, and congratulations
on taking over the chairmanship. Great to see you there, and look
forward really. Such a big integration between small businesses in
the State of Washington, and our military and Hanford cleanup.
And so, really great lessons that I think could be applied broader
to other areas of the government.
And great to see our new Ranking Member, Senator Markey. I
know I probably feeling ancient at the moment, but it’s not that
long ago when Senator Kerry was the chair of this committee, and
he brought a lot of energy to the SBIR and other important tech-
nology startup issues that were a big part of the discussion at that
time. So, look forward to working with both of you on the com-
mittee.
And it’s good to see my former colleague again, congratulations
on your nomination. You and I had a chance to talk briefly in the
office. I wanted to bring up a couple of things. One, we had this
question to Mr. Lutnick today at our Commerce hearing, but do
you support the Minority Business Development Authority?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, thank you for your time in your of-
fice. I enjoyed our conversation. Certainly, I appreciate that pro-
gram that the Commerce Department runs and see that there’s po-
tential for collaboration between SBA. I really do support working
across the administration to ensure our resources are utilized and
we don’t have overlap in our programs, and that they’re serving
Americans who need those services the most.
Senator CANTWELL. Thank you. And will you work with me to
make sure that the Department of Agriculture meets this same
small business, set aside challenge that DOD has so successfully
done, but in this case, the Department of Agriculture really isn’t
giving our small mills the access that they need. And so, will you
work with me to make sure that those important SBA issues are
addressed at the Department of Ag?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I appreciate our conversation about
your timber business. I think, if confirmed, I would look forward
to working with Secretary Rollins to ensure that we have a collabo-
rative relationship. I understand there was previously an MOU
with the Department of Agriculture and hope that we can collabo-
rate to support small businesses in that regard as well.
Senator CANTWELL. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And
when it comes to—let’s just carry that on. One of the reasons why
we want this infrastructure is because if you think about reducing
the fuel that we need, and some of the ideas like cross-laminated
timber, you need to have the mills in those regions. And so, to get
the mills, you have to have the agreement that you’re going to give
them some supply.
But now, look at the disaster we just saw in, you know, Cali-
fornia. And we realized the situation is—we already knew this in
the Northwest, we’ve had our share of pretty big dramatic fires.
But there was a border crossing issue in Sumas where a town was
flooded, and then a town of Malden where a fire wiped through the
town. You know, over 300,000 acres burned in wildfires in my
state, just in 2024.
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So, how do we make sure that we keep politics—I feel like so
much politics happened on federal funding in the last few years.
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How do we keep the politics out of it and disagreements, and make
sure—there was a case on the Malden Fire where it was delayed
for months about a disagreement between the President then and
our governor. And it took a new administration. And this was even
though Cathy McMorris Rodgers and I were working together to
say, let’s do these funds. And how will you help us make delivering
disaster assistance urgently without all this noise that we’re hear-
ing?
Senator LOEFFLER. Senator, I appreciate the question. And I
think, certainly, your state has had its share of disaster. You had
the bomb cyclone in November and ongoing recovery from that. I
think Americans were stunned by the politization of the hurricane
response under FEMA where they refused to go to homes with
Trump support, Trump signs in the front yards.
Americans want to see the end to that. We should not be politi-
cizing our disaster response. I think that that’s something that we
have to restore confidence in. And certainly, the SBA will be work-
ing with the Trump Administration to restore integrity to the relief
efforts.
Senator CANTWELL. I don’t know whether the chair has had this
issue, but probably because there’s disasters everywhere. And that
is this whole debate about the way the funding model works cur-
rently in taking care of communities who’ve experienced disasters.
The urban communities, because they have density, are taken
better care of. And the rural areas—although a rural community
is a rural community, Sumas is an example. It’s right by the bor-
der. It hangs together. If Sumas isn’t there, I’m not sure we can
sustain that border. What’ll happen is it’ll get closed down. And
then what? All the traffic will then have to go down I–5. So, it’s
a bad idea. Or in the Mukilteo, we had an economy that was dev-
astated and people were like, ‘‘No, we’re not going to help you be-
cause you don’t really have the same ratio.’’ I’m like, it’s a jug-
gernaut of an economy. Just because it doesn’t have density doesn’t
mean that it isn’t a big problem.
So, the GAO concluded that the SBA needs to recognize that
rural communities experience disasters differently—not really dif-
ferently. They’re devastated, just they’re not in the same density.
So, as we consider how to make SBA loans for small, vulnerable,
rural communities more viable, do you think businesses and home-
owners—we want them to return to these areas. We don’t want to
see a community—in our case, these are communities that sit on
close proximity to the Cascades, but they’re a huge tourism econ-
omy for the whole state. So, they have a big footprint.
So, what are your thoughts on how we implement this SBA
change, working with our colleagues to get a better recognition of
the economic impact that disadvantages rural communities?
Senator LOEFFLER. Well, Senator, I would love to work with you
on that, to visit your state, to understand the dynamics there. I
grew up in a rural community. I understand the unique character-
istics of delivering relief. I mean, we lived in the heartland, lived
through tornadoes, hailstorms, and other devastating efforts that of
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recovery together as a community. And often, the TV cameras
weren’t there. You’re recovering on your own.
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So, how can we better ensure that disaster relief isn’t based on,
as you mentioned, any politics or media profile, but where the re-
lief is sorely needed to prop up and strengthen the economic sta-
bility of that tax base of the community, the culture, the people,
the generations that live there, and the industry that it supports.
So, I’d love to work with you on that, if confirmed,
Senator CANTWELL. Thank you. Is my time expired, Madam
Chair?
The CHAIR. Yes.
Senator CANTWELL. Thank you so much. Sorry to go on. But
those are very important issues, and I so appreciate the oppor-
tunity to ask them and look forward to working on these with you.
The CHAIR. No, thank you, Senator Cantwell, and I would enjoy
working with you on that as well. Because, yes, in the State of
Iowa, we have had challenges with disaster recovery and the cost
to benefit ratio. We have struggled this with this for a very long
time because of our rural areas.
And just for the audience, if I can take the chair’s prerogative
here and share with you. We have many disasters, flooding, in par-
ticular in Iowa, where many restaurants and downtown rural com-
munities are destroyed. But the cost to benefit ratio is never high
enough for the federal government to come in and provide that
level of assistance.
However, if a restaurant on an Eastern or Western Coast, you
know, along the ocean is destroyed, well, of course the cost to ben-
efit ratio is going to be higher. The cost of that restaurant is much
higher. So, they are the ones that are likely to receive the disaster
assistance, but not those of us that are in the Midwest.
A home of one size in Iowa is much cheaper than a home on the
coast, but it’s still someone’s home. It’s still someone’s business. So,
I think that we have a lot of work to do in this area, and I’d be
happy to partner with you on that, Maria.
Senator CANTWELL. Well, thank you, Madam Chair. And I think
the added thing that people don’t realize is that it also is a econ-
omy that generates a lot of revenue for absolutely your state. It
could be an Ag economy, it could be a tourism economy, it could
be a community that offers something different.
But if you take that out of the middle of your state or wherever
it is because the ratio just hasn’t been addressed correctly, then
we’re losing out on that big economic picture. So, we have to get
people to realize that that relationship to the state overall should
somehow be considered in the ratio.
The CHAIR. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that input, Senator
Cantwell. And a number of issues were addressed today during this
really productive hearing. And thank you for being here, and I
want to thank President Trump for your nomination to the Small
Business Administration. I look forward to working with you upon
your confirmation into this position. And because there are no
other questions, I again want to thank you very much for your will-
ingness to serve, and to be here today, and for your family’s sup-
port of you in this position.
We are going to leave the record open until close of business to-
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morrow at 5:00 p.m. Thursday, January 30th, for members to sub-
mit questions for the record. And we will keep the record open for
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two weeks to edit statements, and submit letters, and any other
relevant materials. Without objection, so ordered. Senator Loeffler,
we would appreciate your prompt response to any additional ques-
tions that are submitted. With that, the Committee on Small Busi-
ness and Entrepreneurship stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:29 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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