Help Wanted: Exploring How Alternative Paths to Student Debt Can Help to Strengthen Small Business (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, April 26, 2023)

Summary

Transcript of an April 26, 2023 hearing of the House Small Business Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development, Small Business Committee Document Number 118-010. Chairman Marc Molinaro presided over a session on trades, apprenticeships and other paths to work that avoid student debt. Witnesses were Patrice Lee Onwuka of the Independent Women's Forum, Meloni Raney of TEXO, The Construction Association, Bruno Schickel of Schickel Construction and Eric Elzy of the United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters. The subcommittee met from 10:05 a.m. to 11:10 a.m. and the appendix carries the four prepared statements.

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“Help Wanted: Exploring How Alternative Paths to Student Debt Can Help to Strengthen Small Business (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, April 26, 2023).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/help-wanted-exploring-how-alternative-paths-to-student-debt-can-help-t-09bf48d68d/, SHA-256 eec609cbf3177bf0ccaca0a2cad590f5ff81f4ee87763bea2506134211f63236.

Full text

HELP WANTED: EXPLORING HOW ALTERNATIVE
PATHS TO STUDENT DEBT CAN HELP TO
STRENGTHEN SMALL BUSINESS

HEARING
BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION,
ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE
DEVELOPMENT
OF THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION

HEARING HELD
APRIL 26, 2023

Small Business Committee Document Number 118–010
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov

U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
51–877 WASHINGTON : 2023
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TRACEY MANN, Kansas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARC MOLINARO, New York
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
ELI CRANE, Arizona
AARON BEAN, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
NICK LALOTA, New York
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
JUDY CHU, California
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire

BEN JOHNSON, Majority Staff Director
MELISSA JUNG, Minority Staff Director

(II)
CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Marc Molinaro ................................................................................................ 1
Hon. Morgan McGarvey .......................................................................................... 3

WITNESSES
Ms. Patrice Lee Onwuka, Director, Center for Economic Opportunity, Inde-
pendent Women’s Forum, Winchester, VA ........................................................ 7
Mrs. Meloni Raney, President and Chief Executive Officer, TEXO, The Con-
struction Association, Dallas, TX ........................................................................ 9
Mr. Bruno Schickel, President, Schickel Construction, Dryden, NY ................... 11
Mr. Eric Elzy, Assistant Business Manager, United Association of Plumbers
and Pipefitters, Louisville, KY ............................................................................ 12

APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mrs. Meloni Raney, President and Chief Executive Officer, TEXO, The
Construction Association, Dallas, TX .......................................................... 23
Ms. Patrice Lee Onwuka, Director, Center for Economic Opportunity,
Independent Women’s Forum, Winchester, VA .......................................... 29
Mr. Bruno Schickel, President, Schickel Construction, Dryden, NY ........... 38
Mr. Eric Elzy, Assistant Business Manager, United Association of Plumb-
ers and Pipefitters, Louisville, KY .............................................................. 43
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
None.

(III)
HELP WANTED: EXPLORING HOW ALTER-
NATIVE PATHS TO STUDENT DEBT CAN
HELP TO STRENGTHEN SMALL BUSINESS

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2023

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION,
ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Marcus J. Molinaro
[chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Williams, Ellzey, Molinaro, McGarvey,
and Pappas.
[Prayer.]
Mr. WILLIAMS. All rise please for opening prayer. Heavenly Fa-
ther, God of all people, thank You for the opportunity today to
speak what we believe and ask great questions and help this great
country. We are in a position this week alone to do great things
for not only our country, our States we come from, but the world.
Be with us as we go forward. In Your name we pray, Amen.
Chairman MOLINARO. Join us in the pledge.
ALL. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of
America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under
God, indivisible, with liberty small and justice for all.
Chairman MOLINARO. I wanted to do that for a while. Good
morning, everyone. I would like to call the Committee on Small
Business to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to de-
clare a recess of the Committee at any time. The Committee is here
today to hear testimony about alternatives paths to student debt,
specifically surrounding career and technical education, and how it
can strengthen small businesses. I thank you all for being here to
testify, and I would like to recognize myself for some opening com-
ments.
First, again, good morning, and thanks for joining us today. I
want to thank our witnesses for joining today. Your time here is
extremely appreciated, and I look forward to your testimony. I am
very glad to have a constituent of mine, Mr. Bruno Schickel, the
owner of Schickel Construction, as one of our witnesses today, join-
ing a good number of others. Mr. Schickel, thank you for your time
and traveling from Ithaca, New York, to Washington, D.C., to share
your perspective on the various issues that our small business own-
ers currently face.
(1)
2

Today, the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and
Workforce Development hearing will focus on several critical issues
that are holding mainstream America back.
First, there is no denying that small businesses, both in my dis-
trict and, of course, every district across this country, are suffering
from a workforce shortage crisis. As we travel around Upstate New
York—and I know my colleagues as they travel around their dis-
tricts, we continue to hear from local businesses about how they
cannot find enough people to work. Despite offering higher wages,
cash bonuses, or other incentives, they still are unable to attract
workers.
Small businesses have limited resources at their disposal to re-
cruit and retain the workforce they need. Every unfilled position
represents a missed opportunity for small business to serve its
local community, increase their bottom line, and grow their oper-
ation. This shortage is often exacerbated in rural communities, like
the ones I represent.
This inability to fill jobs not only impacts storefronts on main
street, but also employers of skilled trade workers. This includes
our construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and so many
more. With a shortage of available workers, employers are having
difficulty finding qualified employees to fill open positions due to
increased competition for available workers and having to offer
higher wages to retain them.
According to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, of the top 20 occu-
pations projected to see the biggest change in employment over the
next 10 years, the majority are in careers that require training be-
yond high school, but less than a 4-year degree. This means that
millions of individuals who did not possess a 4-year degree could
have well-paid careers and obtain the necessary skills to fill these
jobs likely without needing to step onto a college campus. This is
all happening as the cost of a traditional
4-year education continues to climb, reaching record highs.
This rise in cost of 4-year degrees have saddled nearly 43 million
Americans with student loan debt equating to over $1.7 trillion. As
a result, we are left to confront a massive student debt crisis and
massive workforce shortage in skilled trades across the country.
We should be promoting alternative education paths that are
both more affordable, and oftentimes more efficient than a typical
4-year college degree, such as registered apprenticeship trade
schools and more. In our current economic environment, we have
to think practically and encourage our young people, in particular,
to aspire to achieve success.
As a former county executive in Dutchess County, New York, I
have had firsthand experience creating training programs and see-
ing the benefits that these programs provide students. Under my
tenure, we worked with various not-for-profit agencies, community
centers, and other programs to help promote youth workforce de-
velopment programs and overall worker readiness skills. This gave
students the skills they needed to go into various professions, in-
cluding skilled labor jobs.
One great alternative pathway to a 4-year degree is career and
technical education. In addition to being shorter and less expensive
than a traditional 4-year degree, CTE represents a complete range
3

of career fields across the entire economy and is driven by the
needs and demands of employers.
Preparing students with technical skills needed to obtain higher
paying jobs, in-demand jobs, will prove to be crucial to bridging our
nation’s skills and workforce gap. And as policymakers, we must
improve our understanding of workforce issues so we can prepare
the next generation of workers and our small businesses that rely
on these workers for success.
I know today’s hearing can help shape how Congress can work
to promote these vital alternate paths to education, and by doing
so, we will be working to solve our nation’s workforce shortage cri-
sis, while promoting less expensive, but oftentimes more successful
educational opportunities.
I am very excited to have a diverse group of small business own-
ers, some of whom have gone through CTE and other training pro-
grams. Today, our witnesses will have the opportunity to share
their stories, current economic and workforce challenges, and how
CTE and apprenticeship programs help them to become the busi-
ness owners they are today. And so, again, I want to thank all of
you for being here with us, and I look forward to today’s conversa-
tion. And with that, I will yield to my distinguished Ranking Mem-
ber from Kentucky, Mr. McGarvey.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that.
I echo your words. And thank you for holding this vital hearing on
alternative educational paths that can develop our nation’s work-
force.
As you introduced one of your constituents who is here today, I
would also like to introduce one of my constituents here today, Mr.
Erik Elzy, who is a plumber and pipefitter with Local 502 in the
great Louisville, Kentucky. And he and I have talked about this a
lot over the years. It is an honor to have you here to share those
insights with the Committee.
As we all know across this country, whether it is in New York,
whether it is in Kentucky, our nation is experiencing a workforce
shortage. Just last February, there were only 5.9 million unem-
ployed people, and there were 9.9 million job openings. It means
even if every person unemployed went to work, there would be 4
million job openings in this country.
Small businesses are really and truly feeling this labor shortage
as much or more than anyone else. Everywhere I go in my district
and talk to people, and I say what is the number one concern?
They say it is getting and keeping the right people here.
As a result, I think these workforce development solutions are
key. They are what we need to help businesses find the skilled
labor they need, and will prepare Americans for a better future.
They will do it without requiring individuals to make a substantial
financial investment towards their education. That is why it is so
important that we are talking about these other ways to get people
employed, to get people into the skilled trades for good-paying jobs
where we know we have openings.
So today, we will explore the workforce development programs
from the lens of the construction sector, where these programs
have been extremely successful in teaching people in apprentice-
4

ship programs and getting people into the trade trades and to
work.
It is estimated that in 2023 alone, the construction industry will
have to recruit 546,000 workers on top of its regular pace of hiring,
just to keep up with the demand. And, as we implement the Infra-
structure Investment and Jobs Act over the next decade, that de-
mand for workers is only going to continue to grow.
So whether we are talking about apprenticeships, career and
technical education, or any other workforce development initiative,
it is imperative that we look for ways to incentivize their use and
make them more attractive to new demographics of workers.
Congress’ investments in infrastructure will create more jobs and
reach far beyond the construction sector. So we need to figure out
ways to extend these programs into areas of our economy that have
not traditionally been covered by these efforts.
Finally, and most important for this Committee, we need to en-
sure that workforce development programs are accessible to small
employers because they are the ones who stand to benefit most.
Last Congress, this Committee focused on this topic with a series
of hearings. Today’s hearing and the introduction of two bipartisan
bills to improve the understanding and utilization of vital work-
force pipeline programs confirm this remains a priority for the new
majority.
I look forward to listening to the testimony of all of our wit-
nesses, which will help inform our current and future efforts to
build a strong pipeline of skilled workers. And I look forward to
working with my colleagues to build a stronger, more robust work-
force. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. At this point,
I would like to recognize the Chairman of the Small Business Com-
mittee, Mr. Roger Williams from Texas, for his opening remarks.
Mr. Chairman?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate it. Good
morning to all of you. We appreciate you coming here. I, too, am
a small business owner back in Texas. So we are all talking to the
choir here as we proceed to do some great things. And I want to
thank my colleague, Marc Molinaro, for holding today’s Sub-
committee hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that.
And in my district in Texas and across the country, there are far
too many windows plastered with Help Wanted signs. This has
been especially challenging for many industries that require spe-
cialized skills from workers plumbers, electricians, and so many
more. Our economy does not work without skilled workers. And I
can tell you we need welders in Texas. So send them our way. We
need them badly.
And not only are these vital trades struggling to fill open posi-
tions, they also can’t keep up with replacing retiree workers. And
for every worker entering the skilled workforce, five are leaving.
This is simply unsustainable for an economy like ours. And there
are too many young people who feel like they have no other choice
but to attend a 4-year college and incur tens of thousands of dollars
in debt. And the ones that don’t—in Texas, we have 100,000 kids
every year dropping out of school in the ninth grade. Imagine that.
Because they are losing hope. They don’t think they can be a doc-
5

tor, architect, or whatever. So we need to make sure that they
know there is opportunities out there that can get them into some
opportunities to do great things.
So college, we all know, isn’t for everybody. And there are other
learning avenues that can help young people pursue a rewarding
career. So we cannot address the underlying issues in education
with a one-size-fits-all strategy. And I hope today’s discussion,
which I know it will, can shine a light on how important these al-
ternate paths of education are to both small businesses, our na-
tion’s youth, and the future of our country. And that is the most
important thing. A check from a job is much better than a check
from the government, and we need to fix that.
So with that, thank you, Chairman Molinaro, and I yield back
my time. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You said that
better and more brief than I did.
Mr. WILLIAMS. I can be brief as long as you were.
Chairman MOLINARO. That is right. You make up for it. Let’s
begin by introducing our witnesses. It is my honor to introduce our
first, Patrice Onwuka. Ms. Onwuka is the Director of the Center
for Economic Opportunity at the Independent Women’s Forum.
Leading a national women’s organization that is dedicated to devel-
oping and furthering policies that enhance women’s freedom, oppor-
tunities, and overall well-being. The organization celebrates wom-
en’s accomplishments and works to expand opportunities for
women by supporting policies that include cutting down and bur-
densome federal regulations. Ms. Onwuka has over a decade of ex-
perience working on economic, technological, philanthropic, and
criminal justice system issues.
In addition to her work at the Independent Women’s Forum, Ms.
Onwuka cohosts WMAL FM’s morning show O’Connor & Company,
the leading talk radio station in the D.C. area every Friday.
Ms. Onwuka is also involved in several philanthropic groups, in-
cluding serving as a senior fellow with the Alliance for Charitable
Excellence, a project of the philanthropy roundtable, and as Tony
Blankley’s fellow at the Steamboat Institute—did I get it all.
Born in the Caribbean, Ms. Onwuka grew up in Boston after im-
migrating with her family. She holds a bachelor’s in economics and
political science from Tufts University, as well as a master’s in
international relations from Boston College. Her expertise and pas-
sion to furthering opportunities for women make her an excellent
voice to hear from today.
Ms. Onwuka, thank you for joining us this morning, and we look
forward to the conversation that we will have.
At this point, I would like to recognize my colleague, Mr. Ellzey
from Texas, to introduce his constituent who is appearing before us
today.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is all my honor to
introduce my first witness, Mrs. Meloni Raney. Ms. Meloni Raney
is the President and CEO of TEXO, a Texas-based construction as-
sociation.
Founded in 2009, TEXO was created to build a strong and vi-
brant construction community in north and east Texas. Comprised
of over 300 Members who contribute over $15 billion to the greater
6

economy, TEXO is one of the largest construction trade association
in Texas and one of the largest in the country.
Since Ms. Raney joined TEXO in 2013, she has played a key role
in growing the association where she led member programs and
service efforts until being promoted to President and CEO in 2015.
A graduate of VOU, in Oklahoma, Ms. Raney majored in architec-
ture and minored in construction science management.
In 2016, Ms. Raney was an honoree at 40 Under 40 in the coun-
try for Building, Design, and Construction’s National Magazine
Award. She has also been an active Member of the Foundation for
Young Women’s Leadership Committee in Fort Worth for over a
decade, with a focus on STEM education.
With her extensive experience and passion for advancing the con-
struction industry, Ms. Raney is well-situated to provide important
insight into how we can strengthen workforce development in
America.
Ms. Raney, thank you for joining us this morning. I am looking
forward to our conversation.
Mr. Elzy, you are missing a couple of letters. I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Ellzey. And with that,
let me introduce today’s third witness and a constituent of mine,
Mr. Bruno Schickel. Mr. Schickel is the president of Schickel Con-
struction, a small business located in Dryden, New York. Founded
in 1985, Schickel Construction has worked on over 200 residential
commercial and like commercial projects in Tompkins County, in-
cluding Ithaca, New York, and at Trumansburg, Hector, and Au-
rora.
Mr. Schickel employs 15 people at his company, and has well
over 30 years of experience in the construction industry. His com-
pany works on everything from dream houses to cottage commu-
nities and rental properties that have garnered universal acclaim.
In addition to helming his own business, Mr. Schickel served as
president of the local Builders Association as well as president of
the New York State Builders Association, and as national vice
president of the National Association of Home Builders.
His experience working on a diverse set of projects as well as his
passion for the construction industry makes Mr. Schickel an excel-
lent witness for us here today, and to hear from on the evolving
challenges facing his industry, particularly, with workforce devel-
opment.
Mr. Schickel, I appreciate you being here. Thank you for joining
us this morning. We look forward to our conversation. And with
that, let me recognize again Ranking Member Mr. McGarvey to in-
troduce the minority’s witness for today’s hearing.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And for
Mr. Erik Elzy, there might be a few letters missing, but I know no-
tice the haircut’s hereditary.
Our final witness today is Mr. Erik Elzy, assistant business man-
ager for the United Association of Plumbers, Pipefitters, and Serv-
ice Technician and Local 502 here in Louisville, Kentucky. Origi-
nally trained through Local 502’s apprenticeship program, Mr. Elzy
has been a journeyman plumber for more than 20 years. For more
than a decade, he has also been heavily involved in educating other
professionals in his field, serving both as an instructor and as a
7

training coordinator where he was responsible for approximately
350 trainees.
Mr. Elzy has been appointed to the Kentucky State AFL-CIO
General Executive Board and the Kentucky Department of Hous-
ing, Building, and Construction Advisory Committee. He also
serves as the vice president for the Greater Louisville Building and
Construction Trades Council.
Mr. Elzy is also a friend. And I have been out to his facility,
watched the respect he has and on the people he has trained and
people whose lives he has changed. He does an amazing job in
what he does for his field and our community. And I am so proud
to have him representing our hometown and Local 502 here in
Washington, D.C.
Thank you for being here, Mr. Elzy, and I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. I just remind my colleagues not to call
into question the follicly-challenged. I am just saying, regardless of
last names.
So we appreciate you all being here. Thanks, Mr. McGarvey.
Before recognizing the other witnesses for your testimony, I just
want to remind you that your oral testimony is restricted to 5 min-
utes in length. There will be a little red light in front of you. And
when that light clicks on, if you would not mind concluding your
comments and beginning to wrap up. Otherwise, they have given
me a modestly-sized gavel to make use of only if necessary. And
with that, I now recognize Ms. Onwuka for her 5-minute opening
remarks. Thank you.

STATEMENTS OF PATRICE LEE ONWUKA, DIRECTOR, INDE-
PENDENT WOMEN’S FORUM, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC OP-
PORTUNITY; MELONI RANEY, PRESIDENT AND CEO, TEXO,
THE CONSTRUCTION ASSOCIATION; BRUNO SCHICKEL,
PRESIDENT, SCHICKEL CONSTRUCTION; ERIK ELZY, ASSIST-
ANT BUSINESS MANAGER, UNITED ASSOCIATION OF PLUMB-
ERS AND PIPEFITTERS.

STATEMENT OF PATRICE LEE ONWUKA
Ms. ONWUKA. Thank you so much, Chairman. Thank you,
Ranking Member, and the Committee Members who are here. My
name is Patrice Onwuka, and I am the director of the Center for
Economic Opportunity at Independent Women’s Forum.
You know, we advocate for policies that enhance people’s free-
doms and opportunities, as well as their well-being as the Chair-
man mentioned. So I will give you a broad picture of where we are
in the economy when it comes to labor force challenges.
Today, more Americans hold a college degree than ever before.
However, fewer students are coming from lower-, middle-, and
working-class backgrounds. Both younger and older adults feel the
pressure to pursue higher education, and unfortunately are accu-
mulating high debt to fund it. However, employers and workers in-
creasingly question the value of degrees in terms of the costs and
workforce preparedness. Some 70 million workers actually don’t
possess a college degree at all, and their labor force outcomes are
being challenged right now.
8

Now, we have a pandemic labor market that is beginning to ease,
but employers are still grappling with widespread, long-term labor
shortages, driven by cultural and demographic changes that as well
as well-intentioned policies that have limited opportunities. So I
will explain a little bit further.
Now, as we have heard today, American businesses are facing an
unprecedented challenge, stemming from labor shortages. We have
got 9.9 million open positions, 5.8 million unemployed Americans,
there is a mismatch there. Labor force participation, interestingly,
is below prepandemic levels and below pre-Great Recession levels.
So people are falling out of the labor force. This is stunting eco-
nomic growth for small businesses.
According to the National Federation of Independent Business, 1
in 3 small business owners has openings for skilled workers, and
1 in 5 has openings for unskilled workers.
The national implications are very obvious: Productivity, growth,
supply chain, all of these interrelated factors are affected by this
labor shortage. However, we see these labor shortages more pro-
nounced in some industries more than others. The skill, the tech-
nical occupations, these are middle-scale jobs that deliver middle-
scale and middle-class opportunities and lifestyles. And very often,
they don’t require a college degree necessarily.
You will hear from my colleagues on the panel who are immersed
day-to-day in the construction industry, for example, where there
is a half a million gap of workers. But as I researched, it is not
limited just to the trades. All of these industries across the econ-
omy are suffering.
So how did we get here? Well, I will posit three different forces:
Number one, the every-kid-to-college movement. This education
evolution imagined a fully college-educated workforce. But this is
a one-size-fits-all approach that doesn’t take into consequence the
unintended consequences. It stigmatized the trades, directed stu-
dents away from entry-level careers in industries that can actually
deliver middle-class lifestyles with ample opportunities and entre-
preneurship’s potential, which a lot of young people love without
the debt.
The cost of college became untethered from the value of the de-
grees, and unfortunately we have got to acknowledge this. Govern-
ment-subsidized student loans are fueling this increase in college
cost today.
Number two, we have heard a little bit about the retirements.
About 10,000 baby boomers reach retirement age every day in the
United States. According to the Census Bureau, by 2030, the entire
generation will have retired. Potentially. But this creates opportu-
nities, obviously. It also creates a loss of knowledge and experience.
And then the third big force: Degree inflation. This is the pro-
liferation of degree requirements for jobs that didn’t have those re-
quirements before. Very often, employers routinely use college de-
grees to screen out applicants.
According to Harvard Business School, 61 percent of employers
polled rejected applicants who had relevant skills and experience
because they didn’t have a degree. Talk about a barrier to oppor-
tunity. Men have been hurt by degree inflation, and Blacks and
9

Hispanics, people who don’t necessarily have high college gradua-
tion rates, also suffer.
Employers, though, pay the price as well. Middle-scale jobs that
are difficult to fill, feeding this worker shortage, and wage-inflation
drives up the cost for business because you have to spend more to
attract high-degree earners.
Unfortunately, a degree is not also or always a signal of the soft
skills that you may be looking for. So what can we do? With my
last 39 seconds, I have got some policy solutions, but I will just
name them.
Number one, we have got to fight degree inflation. And this is
already underway, but there are opportunities for Congress and
lawmakers at every level to participate, on a bipartisan force.
Number two, reform excessive credentialing. Credentialing can
be great. It can be a great alternative, but it can also be a barrier
to opportunity. Again, there is bipartisan agreement there.
And number three, protecting independent contracting. Many
young people want to be their own small business owners. They
should be allowed to do so. And there are ways for Congress as well
as States to protect that. Government policies can be well-intended,
but they can create barriers to opportunity. And that is where we
want to stop that. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you for that very much.
And with that I would like to recognize Ms. Raney for her 5-
minute remarks.
STATEMENT OF MELONI RANEY
Mrs. RANEY. Chairman Molinaro, Ranking Member McGarvey,
and Members of the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneur-
ship, and Workforce Development. Thank you for inviting me to
testify on the importance of a well-trained workforce for the con-
struction industry and the value of a career in the industry.
My name is Meloni Raney. I have spent my career in the con-
struction industry, beginning as an architect, and now as president
and CEO of TEXO, the largest commercial contractors association
in Texas, representing construction member companies that do
more than $14 billion of work annually in the Dallas-Fort Worth
region.
I am testifying on behalf of the Associated General Contractors
of America, AGC, the leading association in the construction indus-
try representing more than 27,000 firms.
The country is experiencing the greatest labor shortage in gen-
erations, with acute shortages in the construction industry. The
good news is the industry is making great investments and local
workforce development, and Congress can help. Recent federal in-
frastructure investments in combination with expected private sec-
tor investments will provide many future workers with good-paying
jobs and long careers, if we can find a way to encourage more peo-
ple to pursue construction careers.
Congress can help put more high school and college graduates
into high-paying construction careers by increasing funding and
local flexibility. Doing so will not only provide essential construc-
tion skills, but also serve as valuable recruiting tools by signaling
to students and young adults that construction is a career path
10

worth considering. By giving construction the starring role in re-
building the economy, a new generation of workers can be brought
into the construction trades for careers where they can economi-
cally advance and prosper.
According to an AGC Autodesk 2022 Workforce Survey, construc-
tion workforce shortages risk undermining infrastructure projects
as most contractors struggle to fill open positions. According to the
JOLT Survey from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, contractors
wanted to hire more than twice as many workers as they were able
to hire. In Texas, the industry struggles to fill positions for record-
sized projects. The reason firms have difficulty finding workers,
even though hourly pay in construction averages 19 percent or
more than the overall private sector is the country has essentially
dismantled the once robust pipeline for recruiting and preparing
new construction workers.
In Texas, TEXO has prioritized recruiting workers to the con-
struction industry and providing a skilled workforce. The multi-
faceted tactics include workforce development initiatives and craft-
training programs.
The TEXO Foundation is active in Dallas-Fort Worth area
schools connecting students to the industry, and much of its suc-
cess is due to involvement of employers. The Construction Edu-
cation Foundation, the craft training arm of TEXO, has over 2,600
students enrolled in training programs with 140 participating em-
ployers across eight trades.
The earn-and-learn model offers graduates a recognized creden-
tial that certifies proficiency in one of eight trades. The partici-
pants are paid by an employer. Employers gain access to a skilled
talent pool that improves productivity and reduces turnover. Mean-
while, new workers learn valuable and portable skills without hav-
ing to accumulate college debt. Instead, employers bear much of
the cost for training. This is a very different model than our cur-
rent approach to collegiate education where students bear most of
the cost regardless of employment prospects.
Federal officials are spending far more to encourage new workers
to go to college instead of pursuing rewarding careers in construc-
tion. For every dollar the federal government spends urging stu-
dents to enroll in college and enter the service sector, it invests 20
cents in career and technical education. This higher education bias
is doing a disservice to our nation’s youth by encouraging a mas-
sive accumulation of debt that doesn’t often lead to a career in
their field of study.
CTE programs are among the most valuable education programs.
However, programs are expensive to administer and fund with
cost-intensive classrooms, and equipment and quality instructors in
short supply.
Finally, recent major infrastructure investments from Congress,
such as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, the Inflation
Reduction Act, and the CHIPS Act, are intended to address many
documented needs. However, some other programs are imposing
workforce requirements that further limit the ability of construc-
tion contractors to perform their work.
Imposing arbitrary workforce requirements that further narrow
the pools of workers that qualify to work on federal infrastructure
11

projects will only make it harder, longer, and costlier for these
projects to be built.
Thank you again for inviting AGC to testify before the Com-
mittee today, and I look forward to answering any questions you
have.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mrs. Raney.
And now, Mr. Schickel, for 5 minutes opening comments.

STATEMENT OF BRUNO SCHICKEL
Mr. SCHICKEL. Good morning. I am an owner of a small busi-
ness in the Ithaca, New York, area. My company, Schickel Con-
struction, specializes in residential and light commercial work.
Now, I am the first person in my family in many generations to
have not gone to college. Being the ninth child of 13 children, I
think my parents were relieved when I decided to take a different
path, given the financial burdens of college tuition. I would like to
say that going to college is not the only way to get an education,
it just happens to be the easier way, but the more expensive way.
I attended shop class in high school, and I built a lot of great fur-
niture then. I wanted to make things. I did not want to go to col-
lege. After high school, I joined the carpenters’ union and did resi-
dential construction for a while. Then over the next 10 years, I
worked for a variety of different companies in on-the-job training.
At 28, I decided that I was ready to go out on my own, and I
started my own company in 1984, and I have consistently employed
10 to 15 people for the past 39 years.
Recently, I polled my employees to see how many went to shop
class in high school. Sixty percent of them did. Hands-on and on-
the-job training is how I learned the construction industry. I would
like to say that anybody can learn how to build a house, hands-on,
but not everybody can easily learn how to run a business.
I learned how to run a business by attending the annual Inter-
national Builders’ Show sponsored by NAHB, or the National Asso-
ciation of Home Builders. Every year, I would take part in their
seminars that they had to offer.
There is little difference between the unemployment rate of
workers that get a college degree and workers that don’t, but there
is a big difference in their debt burden. This debt burden sets
young people back decades in terms of their economic security.
Now, if you go back to the mid-eighties, early eighties, I was hir-
ing for a construction company, and we had workers lined up out
the door, literally, looking for work. Fast forward to 2008 and 2009,
that recession, I was lucky if I would get one or two applicants a
week. Now the situation currently is literally nobody will apply.
And sometimes I just simply give up altogether and just stop try-
ing.
In my mind, we have a short-term problem and we have a long-
term problem. The short-term problem is we are facing a historic
labor shortage right now. Everyone reports the same problem.
There is nobody to hire. Just think about how much more our econ-
omy could be expanding and growing if businesses could hire the
people they need. I know my business, personally, could increase
20 or 30 percent, easily.
12

The National Association of Home Builders estimated the next 2
years, we are short 2.2 million jobs. And without those, a million
homes won’t be built. Currently, this country has an unprecedented
number of jobs going unfilled. At the same time, we have an un-
precedented number of people not working and collecting govern-
ment benefits. Clearly, something is seriously out of whack.
The long-term problem, over the past 50 years, the workforce bal-
ance has shifted. Few people want to make things now. Too much
emphasis has been put on attending college and too little on the
rewards of jobs in the trades. Resources for vocational training and
technical training have declined. Many schools stop offering shop
classes altogether. The vocational tract has become the poor cousin
of the college tract. We need to restore some balance.
I would say that hands-on and on-the-job training is a good place
to start. Let’s bring back shop class to high schools. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Schickel.
And now for 5 minutes, the other Mr. Elzy.

STATEMENT OF ERIK ELZY
Mr. ELZY. Good morning, Committee Members. Thank you to
honor of speaking before you today. My name is Erik Elzy, and I
am a proud 26-year Member of the United Association of Plumbers,
Pipefitters, and HVACR Service Technicians, Local 502 in, Louis-
ville, Kentucky. I have held various positions in my local union, in-
cluding apprentice plumber, journeyman plumber, general foreman,
superintendent, apprentice instructor, training coordinator for
Local 502’s training center, instructor nationally for the United As-
sociation, And business representative, the job I currently hold.
I am here today to speak to you on the importance of apprentice-
ships in the construction industry, especially the industry that I
represent.
My experience started in 1997, as a registered apprentice. I
worked under the tutelage of many passionate, educated plumbers
and plumbing instructors for 5 years until I met the requirements
to graduate in 2002. The passion these Members have shown me
led me to return the passion to young men and women currently
making up Local 502’s membership as an apprentice instructor,
and as a training coordinator so that I could have a hands-on expe-
rience in their education. Some of these Members are still my men-
tors today, and I am forever indebted to them for the education
they provided to me when I was a young man.
I have been appointed to several boards representing Local 502
in the State of Kentucky, either by business manager or Governor
Andy Beshear. Some of these being Greater Louisville Building and
Construction Trades Council vice president, Kentucky State AFL-
CIO Executive Board Member, the Department of Housing, Build-
ings, and Construction Advisory Committee.
And I can assure you that among other topics covered in these
meetings or these committees, the conversation always seems to al-
ways find its way to worker shortages in the State of Kentucky. We
bounce ideas around the room on how each organization is plan-
ning on making sure manpower requests are met now and in the
future, which always includes apprenticeships.
13

Apprenticeships are required to register with the state in which
they are located as well as the Department of Labor. Thus having
them prove how money is spent, retention rates, provide curricu-
lums for approval, among other things. This helps ensure that reg-
istered apprenticeships meet required levels of quality, and that
Members’ contributions, or in some cases, federal and state grants
are used responsibly.
With my experience as an apprenticeship instructor and training
coordinator locally, I have personally witnessed how valuable the
education provided to our apprentices shows versus when someone
who has taken a 6-week course to pass a license exam or someone
who has some field education, but that is all they have shines
through.
Most union apprenticeships have earn-while-you-learn programs.
This allows the apprentice to take classroom, workshop learning,
and translate it into their field of work and vice versa. This is also
a great way to learn for someone who is more of a hands-on learner
all while maintaining full-time employment and benefits to provide
for themselves, and if applicable, to their families.
Apprenticeships have proven to be very beneficial to businesses,
both large and small. Larger businesses, in some cases, are capable
of developing in-house apprenticeships. While smaller businesses
may not be able to afford this type of training on their own.
In the case of Local 502, we partner with contractors that have
anywhere from 350 Local 502 Members down to just two Members.
We are able to help all contractors, notwithstanding their size, fol-
lowing one guiding principle: We train apprentices to perform a job
skill, not a job skill for a certain type of contractor.
Some smaller businesses in years past have been intimidated to
approach unions with a fear of cost of becoming a union contractor.
In recent years, Local 502 has seen a rise in smaller contractors
become a signatory to us. This is from the education that they are
receiving at our apprenticeship. We offer a class to every Member
on starting a new business and how Local 502 can assist in the fi-
nancial burden of someone just starting out. Since implementing
this class, we have had several Members take this class and have
had five new Members start businesses.
Recently, Congress enacted legislation regarding infrastructure.
This one bill will require hundreds of thousands of qualified work-
ers for the foreseeable future. One way Congress can help with this
shortage, I believe, is to help promote apprenticeships in the work-
force as a career choice the same way a 4-year degree is promoted.
In my profession, people have chosen to become a plumber, pipe-
fitter, or HVACR Service Technician. No different than choosing to
become a doctor or a lawyer. The education is different, but not less
important. In fact, in our opinions, the education is more important
to the health and safety of Americans.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. It
has truly been my honor and privilege.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Elzy. We appreciate you
all being here with us today. At this point, we will move on to
Members’ questions. And I would have like to yield myself 5 min-
utes to begin.
14

Mr. Schickel, I want you to dive a little bit deeper into rural
America and upstate New York. Could you speak to a degree about
the specific challenges you face in recruiting and finding applicants
for work?
Mr. SCHICKEL. Thank you. I think the biggest problem right
now is that nobody is applying. It is a very vexing situation. Not
literally nobody is applying, but figuratively it is. I have hired a
couple of people recently that, you know, over maybe 3 or 4
months, some people did come forward. And I offered them a job,
and they never showed up. They literally never showed up for
work. Never called and never contacted. I am not sure why that is.
I think the balance is just out of whack. And I don’t know why that
is, but thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. So let’s dive a little bit. What, specifi-
cally, though, do you think is keeping folks from coming to work?
You know to be—with some detail, what are you hearing in cer-
tainly your area of the industry?
Mr. SCHICKEL. You know, it is a vexing question because
there—I think the assumption is that they are being well-re-
warded. The incentives not to work are so great or too generous
that the alternative of working is not attractive enough. That is
what I hear.
Chairman MOLINARO. And you can say it. In our State, there
are government supports that are discouraging people to reenter
the workforce.
Mr. SCHICKEL. Without question. Without question.
Chairman MOLINARO. Okay. Other than perhaps using those
tools to incentivize work, what could government’s role be to get
folks back, at least, again, rural New York in your line of work?
Mr. SCHICKEL. I think people have to understand that careers
in the trades are a very noble and good profession, and they pay
well. And I think it is a promotional thing. I think that so much
emphasis has been put on getting a college education. So many re-
sources are committed to that, and not enough is put on hands-on
work and making things. And I think that balance just has to be
changed. And that is the long-term goal or long-term challenge.
And then the short-term challenge is getting people to step for-
ward.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you. These are good actually a
segue for me to ask Ms. Raney a question. I often say my step dad’s
a brilliant mathematician. A brilliant mathematician, so long as he
is under the hood of a car. And test-taking and the challenge cer-
tainly in public school—I should probably say Skip Van Anden (ph)
was—is and remains a great mechanic. My dad doesn’t often get
in the Congressional Record anyway, so I should probably acknowl-
edge that.
But the challenge from high school and test-taking and so on was
overwhelming. And, ultimately, you know I will say, in his day,
and now, and certainly today, the demand to only learn a certain
way, to be educated a certain way is demoralizing. What your ef-
forts through the TEXO High School Outreach Committee, I think
is an important sort of connection in creating that pipeline.
Can you talk a little bit about what the Committee does and how
you might inspire young people to actually move down this path.
15

Mrs. RANEY. I can. I think that is what is so exciting about
what we are doing is we are taking people who have incredible ca-
reers in construction, and we are putting them in front of these
high school students who are—they are studying CTE, but they ac-
tually don’t know how to get into the industry. So there is a dis-
connect between you are studying CTE in high school, but you
don’t know how to go into the industry, and you don’t necessarily
know—there is a perception issue with construction, it is your last
resort. So if you fail at everything else, then you can get into con-
struction.
And so, we are putting people in front of them to change that
perception and give them hope that this is a bright career for you.
We show them the salary ranges. We show them people who have
progressed through the trades. We put people in front of them that
look like them, so that they know construction is open to anybody.
And so, we are giving them hope by getting in front of them early.
We start in middle school, and then we are with them all along the
high school journey, and we are bringing them into the industry.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you for that. I just think the one-
size-fits-all education structure is not only depleting the workforce,
it is demoralizing some of our brightest minds. I am grateful for
the work that you do. With that, my time has expired. I will recog-
nize Ranking Member McGarvey for your 5 minutes.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will start off
with a point of agreement where we shouldn’t have the one-size-
fits-all model. I think that is what we are doing here.
And, Mr. Schickel, I really appreciate what you said about show-
ing that the trades are a noble career. And I want to stress that.
What we are highlighting here today is it is not just a job, it is a
career in the trades where you can learn to do something, make
something, really contribute to our society, and provide a good life
for you and your family.
Mr. Elzy, I appreciate you being here today, for being such a
mentor and teacher in the trades and our community. We know
that apprenticeships offer an effective model of workforce develop-
ment, especially in the construction industry, where you do have to
have that hands-on training, Mr. Schickel.
Mr. Elzy, can you explain why these apprenticeships are so wide-
ly used in the construction industry and why apprenticeships out-
match other forms of training?
Mr. ELZY. Thank you. I think that when, in my situation, again,
we employ plumbers, pipefitters, HVACR service technicians. So
our contractors, when they call us and want—are looking for some-
one—they can call for a specialty—I want a plumber, apprentice,
first-year, 2nd-year, 3rd-year, 4th-year, 5th-year. Whatever year
you want, that is what we are going to send you. We are going to
send you that type of an apprentice in whatever trade that you are
looking for.
And I would like to also say, referring back to what she down
at the end said, I mean, you know, it is hard to reach these young
kids, too, and make them understand how to get into a field. So,
you know, we are doing a lot of outreach in these schools now, you
know, in the high school level with our coordinators, and showing
16

them what it is like to be plumber, a pipefitter, an HVACR service
technician, and where they can go with it.
Mr. MCGARVEY. And you mentioned businesses calling you ask-
ing for a certain thing. Well, one of the things you talked about in
your testimony was sometimes hesitancy of smaller contractors to
use union labor. But that recently, you have seen an uptick in
some of these contractors saying that they want to become a union.
Can you elaborate on that a little bit about the value of apprentice-
ships from the employer perspective and how that is helping with
the unions?
Mr. ELZY. Yeah, like the smaller contractors. Like I said in my
testimony, in the years past, smaller contractors were very leery of
saying I want to be a union contractor for the simple cost of the
fringe benefit package with the wages also. And it scared them
away thinking that there is another cost attached to it just to say
I am a union contractor. Well, there is not a cost attached to that.
You know, but in order to pay the wages in the fringe benefit pack-
ages, that does come at a cost. But you are getting a more well-
trained individual, and you can always have someone when you
need someone.
So what we have done is we have what is called a market recov-
ery fund that our Members have decided to start in order to grow
our local and our market share in our area. So if a Member de-
cides—or not just a Member, any small contractor in our area de-
cides, Hey, I want to be a union contractor, they come in, sit down
and talk to us, and we say, Hey, we can help you for the first 6
months to a year with your fringe benefits with this market recov-
ery fund, and we will help you get your feet on the ground and get
some money established for yourself before you—we don’t want to
see you fail. We want to see you succeed and stay a union con-
tractor for the next 100 years.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Your story is very compelling, too. You decided
to pursue a career in the trades and turned down a scholarship to
go to college. What made you change course, and how has pursuing
apprenticeship helped your professionally? And I guess, you know,
in the last couple of minutes, what advice do you have for young
people considering joining an apprenticeship program?
Mr. ELZY. I would say, I did go to college. I was on a baseball
scholarship. And it did not take me long to understand that I was
not a college student, I was a baseball player. And you can’t do
both. I mean, you have to do both at the same time. You can’t pick
one. You got to do both. So my grades were not good enough. My
baseball coach said, Hey, you are not going to be able to keep your
scholarship. And I was from a family that—God bless my dad. You
know, he worked hard, but he didn’t make a good living, and he
couldn’t afford to send me to school anymore. So I had to come back
and get a job. And I was actually found on a softball field. As a
college baseball playing slow pitch softball, you know, you are
found pretty easily.
So I was picked up by the union team, and the union team said,
Hey, would you like to be a preapprentice. And I didn’t know what
that was. They handed me a packet. They said take it home and
talk to your parents about it. I am a 19-year-old kid. I went home
17

and showed it to my dad. My dad told me I was an idiot if I didn’t
take advantage of this.
So 26 years later, here I am. And it has been great to me because
in my younger years as I talked about my mentors, you know, as
a 19-, 20-, 21-, 22-year-old kid, I didn’t care about a retirement. I
didn’t care about health benefits. But 26 years later, I have a pen-
sion that is going to provide for me and my wife. When I retire,
I am going to be eligible to retire at the age of 57. I mean, you can’t
hardly say that anymore in this day and age.
So this union, my education has provided very well for me and
my family for the last 26 years. And I am proud to say that I am
from that.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Elzy. I appreciate
your testimony. And like you stood out on the softball field, this is
a bipartisan Committee, but we have a partisan event on June 14,
which is a congressional baseball game. If you still have any eligi-
bility left, we can get you in.
Mr. WILLIAMS. It is hardball.
Mr. MCGARVEY. That is right. It is the hardball. I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. It is
hardball, and we also cannot recruit from the Committee. I think
it is in Ethics.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Okay. I thought I would try.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, though. A very good effort.
And with that, I would like to recognize Mr. Ellzey from Texas for
5 minutes.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being
here today. I love having my staff prepare all these questions. And
as I hear the conversation, I love where we end up going. And this
whole generation that we are talking about you guys are trying to
find to fill these jobs, there are a number of issues that have oc-
curred over the last 5 years that have led to a decline in our work-
force, and everybody is struggling from it. When I go try to find
folks to apply to the military academies, we can’t find them, to en-
list in the military, to become first responders, to—any number of
trades. And if we are going to talk about fathers, I would like to
say my father-in-law, Bob Hoback, is a master builder as well. So
he is now in the register. So he is proud. But it is really to find
these people.
And then COVID really kind of upset the apple cart, and then
video games did, too, and whatever they are doing online, and the
monitorization of the internet has made it difficult for you to find
that 18- to 22-year-old who you need right now. They are going to
probably stay with that path for the rest of their lives.
But it also occurs to me that we have a guidance counselor prob-
lem, I think, nationwide. It doesn’t matter what region you are in,
guidance counselors need to be finding these kids in school and say,
you know what, do you want to go to college? Well, yes, I do. Or,
no, I don’t. Well, in case you don’t, here he is where you need to
be going.
But to your point about wood shop, I think it was you that men-
tioned wood shop. Yeah, we need that stuff back in junior high and
show the people working with your hands and having a career for
18

your whole life is extremely important. So I will get to the ques-
tions now. So everything is a struggle to find folks.
Mrs. Raney, are you finding a light at the end of tunnel after we
have come out of COVID, moneys are starting to be pulled back,
and people are kind of looking around trying to find a job. Are we
seeing a light at the end of the tunnel? And if not, when do you
think we will see that?
Mrs. RANEY. I think we are seeing glimmers of light. We have
pockets of huge success stories coming from schools. If we are ac-
tive in the schools and we build relationships with these students
for 4 years, they were coming into our industry. So I can tell you
success—Congressman Williams talk about needing welders in the
State. We have a school that sends us about 25 welders every sin-
gle year. They graduate, and they come into our industry. But that
is a very specific school that we are targeted, and we are in part-
nership with for 4 years to get those graduates. So we are seeing
glimmers. What we have to do is make it a scalable approach.
DFW has 8 million people in our metroplex. It is a massive—there
is massive schools that we have to go find. So making that scalable
is what we have to do and continue to educate those counselors so
that they are pushing people into our programs.
Mr. ELLZEY. But you are starting to see it get better.
Mrs. RANEY. We are.
Mr. ELLZEY. Ms. Onwuka, what policy change do you believe
would have the most significant impact on fixing this labor force
shortage?
Ms. ONWUKA. Where do I begin?
Mr. ELLZEY. You have got 30 seconds to solve the whole world’s
problems.
Ms. ONWUKA. I know. I mean, I think, number one, related to
what we are talking about here which is just the pushback between
the every-kid-to-college movement. Part of the reason why guidance
counselors have been pushing kids to college is because there has
been some financial incentives, and there is this idea that schools
want to have a college graduation rate or a college participation
rate for their high school students going to college. And so, there
is some financial incentivize there. There is also just this idea that
we were sending lots of kids to college. That is changing. And I
think because we have $1.7 trillion in student loan debt, younger
people are recognizing that they don’t want to go down the path
that I as a millennial did and incur a lot of debt.
And so, what can we do? I talked about fighting degree inflation.
Absolutely. Private employers are getting rid of their degree re-
quirements for positions that they don’t need to see—that they
don’t need that. It has preceded the pandemic and accelerated dur-
ing the pandemic, which is great. Policymakers, state-level and fed-
eral, have an opportunity to look and take an audit of every single
open position and decide does this actually need a degree? Can this
job be done without that? We are seeing in States like Maryland—
I believe it is Utah and one other State where those governors de-
cided we are going to eliminate all degree requirements.
That opens up jobs for people who may have years of experience
in the workforce, but have been locked out of those positions. So
that is one way of attacking this problem.
19

Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Ellzey.
With that, I would like to recognize Mr. Pappas from New Hamp-
shire for 5 minutes.
Mr. PAPPAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I thank
our panel for their contributions for the discussion here today. I
think this is the most important conversation happening here on
the Hill here today. And I see this all across my district. I was at
a steel fabricator not too long ago in Cambian, New Hampshire, At-
lantic Bridge and Engineering. And they are obviously looking for
workers. They are utilizing every square inch of their facility as
they seek to scale up to meet the demand with respect to major
public works, projects, and a construction boom that we are seeing
in southern New Hampshire and the greater Boston area. But that
is good news, but it presents a serious challenge to this company
to be able to compete.
One thing I wanted to ask Mrs. Raney about is a career in tech-
nical education. You talked a little bit about building pipelines,
which are crucially important, that partnership between the pri-
vate sector and CTE programs is necessary to be able to highlight
the opportunities that are out there to young people. But, of course,
our CTE programs need funding, they need modern equipment,
they need adequate instruction to be able to facilitate the kind of
change that we need to see in this country.
So can you talk about a successful model in terms of a career in
technical education program, and the kind of partnership with the
private sector that is necessary?
Mrs. RANEY. Yeah, I think you actually just hit on one of the
biggest challenges we have is when these students—in the State of
Texas in 8th grade, you have to choose whether you are going to
go the CTE route in high school or a college-bound rate in high
school. So if you choose the CTE program, you choose a specific
thing you are going to study. So the construction labs are very ex-
pensive because the equipment is expensive. And then finding in-
structors, because the industry is hiring all of the instructors right
now.
So when we go in and partner with a school and supply the
equipment, and we help them find instructors, and we are phys-
ically in the classroom at least once a week or, you know, once
every couple of weeks, that is a partnership. And so, when those
students graduate, we are finding success. And then working at the
firms that are in those classrooms. So to us, it is a partnership
where the industry is physically recruiting middle school and high
school students and changing that perception of what it is like to
be in construction, and then they are hired out of high school to
join the apprenticeship training program. So there are pockets of
success stories we are seeing all across DFW.
Mr. PAPPAS. Yeah, well, thanks for those thoughts. And, Mr.
Elzy, I appreciate your presence here. And I think you did a great
job highlighting registered apprenticeship programs. And I have
gotten to know some in my district. I have met people who are
changing career paths mid-career. I met a woman who was a para-
professional; had trouble paying her bills. She was working in the
20

school system, but she got trained up as a union carpenter and is
looking forward to a great lifetime in that industry.
So I am wondering if you can talk a little bit about some of the
barriers that people might face to access these programs. I know
a lot has been said about why people are on the sidelines for work-
force. I know, based on my conversations, that it is a number of
things that come into play. But how can we open up more of these
opportunities to folks who are either just starting out or mid-career
or are looking for a chance to get ahead and stay ahead?
Mr. ELZY. I know that Congress doesn’t promote, you know, 4-
year schools, colleges, and trade schools, but just a promotion. In
our area, what we are trying do is we are spending lots of money
advertising in our city. And Congressman McGarvey can probably
say, you can’t drive anywhere in the city of Louisville without see-
ing a billboard that says Local 502, or a commercial on television,
or a commercial on the radio that says Local 502. And, again, like
you said, that is just some people say, Well, what is Local 502?
So it is hard. It is a very difficult task to reach these young peo-
ple because for so long, they have been told the 4-year degree is
the way to go. So we are in a process, I think, of—the vocational
school is coming back around. And, you know, while it is coming
back around, these organizations like us need to take advantage of
being able to go and visit these schools, set up to these schools, and
get rid of the barriers, and make these kids understand that this
is a good living, good pay, good benefits. So the barriers—I guess
what you are trying to get me to answer is, you know, the barriers
are there, and I don’t really know the answer other than to con-
tinue to put it in front of their face. To continue to say, This is a
good living. Just because you are working in the heat and the cold,
and you are hot and sweaty and you are dirty doesn’t mean it is
not honorable, and you cannot provide for your families. Because
I am a testament that that is wrong. I used to be the dirty guy that
came home and played with my children in the yard with dirty
clothes on.
Mr. PAPPAS. Well, I think that is important then. Look, there
are a number of things we have to address as we build capacity
and skills in our workforce, including immigration, including the
addiction of mental health crisis that we are experiencing in this
country. But we also need to continue to work together on this
mindset shift. There is no one right path. And there are great ca-
reers out there in the trades. And so by working together and high-
lighting those opportunities and making sure we are getting to kids
early is a great way to do it. So thanks for your thoughts here
today. I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, sir. And with that, I would
have like to recognize Chairman Williams for 5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is great panel.
I appreciate all of you. And as mentioned earlier, back in Texas,
100,000 kids a year dropping out of the 9th grade. 100,000—that
is just in Texas alone. Losing hope, don’t think they can be some-
thing they don’t want to be. And I think we all hit it on the head
is that we need to promote this, because the truth of the matter
is we all know that once they get into career opportunities and do
some things, that they make more money than the guys that are—
21

that everybody thinks got money. And I remember back—remem-
ber the cold snap we had 2 years ago? Nobody that I know of, no-
body I know called the plumber or the welder or the carpenter and
said, How much are you going to charge me if you come out here?
It was zero degrees, for crying out loud. Just save me.
So there’s not many businesses like that. So we need to promote
that. And we need to make sure these kids understand that there
is a lot of hope after the 9th grade in these industries. And, you
know, a lot of them don’t even know that current technical current
education programs exist. And I know before I got here, I heard
somebody talk about the fact that plumbers—metal shop and wood
shop, you had to take that when I was in school in the fifties, and
we need to get back to that.
So, Mr. Raney, can elaborate on the work of TEXO to educate
young people about the opportunities that are out there. Oh, I am
sorry, Mrs. Raney. We flew up on the plane together.
Mrs. RANEY. We did. So TEXO Foundation is active in around
75 high schools in the Dallas, Fort Worth region. And we are work-
ing with around 7,000 students in the DFW area. And when you
look at how many ISDs, that is a small amount compared to how
many we have to go reach. But we are active on advisory councils.
We are active in the classrooms. Like I said earlier, we are chang-
ing the perception of what it is like to be in construction and show-
ing them a path forward.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Great. You are doing a good job.
Ms. Onwuka, you talked about how college is getting more ex-
pensive. We know that, right? And, yet, I haven’t seen any addi-
tional return on investment for students. So what is driving this
disconnect, do you think, in our education system?
Ms. ONWUKA. Well, the disconnect when it comes to every-kid-
to-college model is, from the cost standpoint, I think, you look at
funding. And part of it is just that the ability for students to access
federal funds, and the fact that the federal government really is
subsidizing the rising cost of college.
Let me give you an interesting statistic here. For every dollar
that the federal government puts into college in the subsidized
loans, colleges raise their cost by 60 cents. So, there is this cycle
of, well, you can charge more because the federal government is
going to subsidize. At the same time, young people feel, well, col-
lege is the only route, so I have got to take out the student loans.
And that is where you are getting the vicious cycle.
Mr. WILLIAMS. You know, I have got a bill that would have in-
formation about these programs on the Department of Education’s
website right before a student submits their paperwork to take out
student loans and make them aware that there is options out
there.
Ms. ONWUKA. Transparency, right.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Schickel, you have got a great story about
taking a leap of faith when you were 28 to start your own business
now. There is no universal path you can take to start your own
small business, we know that. But for all young people who are
nervous about going off on their own, starting a small business, can
you describe the steps you took to start your business all those
22

years, all those years ago, right, and how you learned the intrica-
cies of operating your own business?
Mr. SCHICKEL. Thank you. You know, I think—as I said in my
testimony, it is pretty easy, relatively easy to learn how to build
a house, but it is tough to run a business successfully. And I took
advantage of the educational opportunities every year that the Na-
tional Association of Home Builders provided with their annual
International Builders Show. It was a 3-day extravaganza of prob-
ably 100 to 150 different seminars that you can take about every
imaginable thing. And I really mind that for the knowledge and the
expertise and the networking that was available on those occa-
sions. And then every year, I just honed my skills and worked and
worked and worked to improve my abilities.
Mr. WILLIAMS. And you opened up in the morning, and you
locked it up at night, didn’t you?
Mr. SCHICKEL. Oh, absolutely.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, Ms. Onwuka, I will quickly here ask you
a question. Can you talk about credentialing issues that prevent
people from going into certain careers?
Ms. ONWUKA. Sure. Occupational licensing refers to just the li-
censes for someone to, you know, participate in any type of occupa-
tion. It is really a State-level issue. It is supposed to signal that
someone has the training or knowledge or education that they
need. Sometimes it can become a barrier to opportunity, particu-
larly, for immigrants, for people who have criminal records, which
a lot of young people have unfortunately today, and for women par-
ticularly, military spouses who cannot transfer their licenses from
State to State.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, my time is up. I will just say that the cir-
cle of an economy or a business or anything else is not completed
until you fill the gap of the people we are talking about. There will
always be an issue that we need to continue to fight. I yield back
my time back. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank
you for your leadership with the Small Business Committee and
your faith in this Subcommittee’s work.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here with us today.
I agree with Mr. Pappas, this perhaps is maybe one of the most im-
portant conversations occurring on the Hill. In order to rebuild the
American economy, we have to inspire folks not only to work, but
to achieve success, rather that is through the trades or developing
your own business, encouraging that, and breaking down some of
those obstacles is critically important.
So with that, without objection, Members have five legislative
days to submit additional materials and written questions for the
witnesses to the Chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses.
And at this point, I would ask witnesses to please respond prompt-
ly should that occur. And if there is no further business, without
objection, the Committee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:10 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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