Harnessing the Power of Immigrant-Owned Businesses to Build Back Better (House Small Business Committee hearing, April 28, 2021)
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Transcript of the House Committee on Small Business hearing Harnessing the Power of Immigrant-Owned Businesses to Build Back Better, on April 28, 2021, published as Small Business Committee Document Number 117–009. Chairwoman Nydia Velázquez and Ranking Member Blaine Luetkemeyer gave opening statements. Witnesses were David Dyssegaard Kallick of the Fiscal Policy Institute, Daniel Fitzgerald of the San Diego & Imperial Small Business Development Center Network, Jaja Chen of Waco Cha, LLC, and Jose Ponce of Re/Max Gold. The appendix adds material from Boundless Immigration Inc., an FWD.US report on immigrant competitive advantage, the Latino Landscape Network and NVCA.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Harnessing the Power of Immigrant-Owned Businesses to Build Back Better (House Small Business Committee hearing, April 28, 2021).”
Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/harnessing-the-power-of-immigrant-owned-businesses-to-build-back-bette-6f1384cdf1/
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HARNESSING THE POWER OF IMMIGRANT-OWNED
BUSINESSES TO BUILD BACK BETTER
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
HEARING HELD
APRIL 28, 2021
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–009
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44–562 WASHINGTON : 2021
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Nydia Velázquez ............................................................................................. 1
Hon. Blaine Luetkemeyer ....................................................................................... 3
WITNESSES
Mr. David Dyssegaard Kallick, Director of Immigration Research Initiative,
Fiscal Policy Institute, Latham, NY ................................................................... 5
Mr. Daniel Fitzgerald, Acting Regional Director, San Diego & Imperial Small
Business Development Center (SBDC) Network, Southwestern Community
College, National City, CA .................................................................................. 7
Ms. Jaja Chen, Co-Owner & Chief of Strategic Initiatives & Business Partner-
ships, Waco Cha, LLC, Waco, TX ....................................................................... 9
Mr. Jose Ponce, President, Re/Max Gold, Fenton, MO ......................................... 11
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mr. David Dyssegaard Kallick, Director of Immigration Research Initia-
tive, Fiscal Policy Institute, Latham, NY ................................................... 35
Mr. Daniel Fitzgerald, Acting Regional Director, San Diego & Imperial
Small Business Development Center (SBDC) Network, Southwestern
Community College, National City, CA ...................................................... 38
Ms. Jaja Chen, Co-Owner & Chief of Strategic Initiatives & Business
Partnerships, Waco Cha, LLC, Waco, TX ................................................... 41
Mr. Jose Ponce, President, Re/Max Gold, Fenton, MO ................................. 44
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
Boundless Immigration Inc. ............................................................................. 46
FWD.US Immigrant Competitive Advantage Report .................................... 48
Latino Landscape Network (LLN) .................................................................. 61
National Venture Capital Asociation (NVCA) ................................................ 63
Sayuri Tsuchitani Statement .......................................................................... 71
(III)
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HARNESSING THE POWER OF IMMIGRANT-
OWNED BUSINESSES TO BUILD BACK BETTER
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2021
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 12:15 p.m., via tele-
conference. Hon. Nydia Velázquez [chairwoman of the Committee]
presiding.
Present: Representatives Velázquez, Crow, Mfume, Phillips,
Newman, Bourdeaux, Chu, Evans, Delgado, Houlahan, Mr. Kim of
New Jersey, Craig, Schneider, Luetkemeyer, Williams, Hagedorn,
Stauber, Ms. Young Kim of California, Van Duyne, Salazar, and
Fitzgerald.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Good afternoon. I call this hearing to
order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
any time.
I want to thank everyone, especially our witnesses for joining us
today for our Committee’s remote hearing. I want to make sure to
note some important requirements.
Let me begin by saying that standing House and Committee
rules and practice will continue to apply during remote pro-
ceedings. All Members are reminded that they are expected to ad-
here to these standing rules including decorum when they are par-
ticipating in any remote event.
With that said, the technology we are utilizing today requires us
to make some small modifications to ensure that Members can fully
participate in these proceedings. House regulations require Mem-
bers to be visible through a video connection throughout the pro-
ceeding, so please keep your cameras on. If you participate in an-
other proceeding, please exit and log back in later.
In the event a Member encounters technical issues that prevent
them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
next available Member of the same party and I will recognize that
Member at the next appropriate time slot provided they have re-
turned to the proceeding.
Should a Member’s time be interrupted by technical issues, I will
recognize that Member at the next appropriate spot for the remain-
der of their time once their issues have been resolved. In the event
a witness loses connectivity during testimony or questioning, I will
reserve their time as staff address the technical issue. I may need
to recess the proceedings to provide time for the witness to recon-
nect.
(1)
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Finally, remember to remain muted until you are recognized to
minimize background noise like right now.
In accordance with the rules established under H.R. 965, staff
have been advised to mute participants on the event there is inad-
vertent background noise. Should a Member wish to be recognized,
they must unmute themselves and seek recognition at the appro-
priate time.
Today’s hearing serves as a reminder that the immigrant story
is the American story. For centuries, the United States has wel-
comed immigrants from all around the world. These migrants often
risk their safety and well-being to get here. They cross vast
deserts, tumultuous oceans, and rough terrain, all in the pursuit of
a better life and the American dream.
In turn, these immigrants have made our country better. For
generations, they have fueled American small businesses and em-
bodied the entrepreneurial spirit that helps make our country
great. Immigrant entrepreneurs are a dynamic group, starting
businesses at a higher rate than the general population and ac-
counting for 28 percent of main street business owners. These im-
migrant business owners run many of the institutions that serve
as the pillar of local communities. They own over 50 percent of
businesses that supply necessities, like gas stations, drycleaners,
laundromats, and grocery stores.
These entrepreneurs are force multipliers in local economies.
They buy local products, create local jobs, and make communities
more attractive places to live. Immigrants also have an outside im-
pact in the world of big business. Immigrants founded 44 percent
of 2020 Fortune 500 companies, employing more than 13.7 million
people worldwide.
Despite the great success that immigrant entrepreneurs have en-
joyed, 2020 presented monumental setbacks and obstacles. The
pandemic closed immigrant-owned businesses at disproportionate
rates. At its lowest point in April 2020, COVID has lowered the
number of active immigrant business owners by approximately 36
percent. In other words, we lost over a million immigrant business
owners between February and April. The pandemic created new
challenges for immigrant entrepreneurs, but it also exacerbated fa-
miliar obstacles that have haunted them for a long time.
When it comes to foundational areas like business mentorship
and accessing capital, immigrants are at a disadvantage. Immi-
grants often lack the professional networks used by many entre-
preneurs for guidance and support. They also struggle to access the
capital needed to start and run a business. Whether due to poor
credit history, limited financial literacy, or a lack of access to main-
stream financial services, immigrant-owned firms have a harder
time obtaining the funding needed to be successful.
The SBA offers resources for immigrant entrepreneurs to combat
this obstacle. SBA resource partners, like SBDCs, WBCs, and
SCORE, counsel and advise immigrant businesses so they can over-
come these barriers. Community development financial institutions
offer lending and microlending to service low- to moderate-income
borrowers from diverse backgrounds. These organizations do vital
work. But the road to recovery is long and we must do more to sup-
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port immigrant businesses. If our economy is to recover, we need
immigrant businesses operating at full strength.
As was the case in the aftermath of the Great Recession, the
businesses that suffered the most during COVID will play a signifi-
cant role in our recovery, as inncreased vaccination diminished the
severity of the public health crisis and aided the return to nor-
malcy. New businesses started by immigrants will drive local eco-
nomic growth.
Our witnesses today are a testament to what is possible when
immigrant business owners receive adequate support. I look for-
ward to hearing your testimony and discussing how we can harness
the power of immigrant entrepreneurs to help rebuild our economy.
I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Luetke-
meyer, for his opening statement.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you
for holding this hearing, especially to discuss the unique issues im-
migrant-owned small businesses face.
Each of us have immigrant-owned small businesses in our dis-
tricts that are highly integral to our communities. The ability to
start anew, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and own a small
business are all key aspects of the American dream that many im-
migrants are seeking in the United States.
However, immigrant small businesses face the same difficult
tasks as all small businesses face—how to survive the pandemic
and having to deal with the daunting deliverable tax policies and
over regulatory policies looming over their heads. This is not good
for any small firm.
No matter how you slice it, higher taxes are a burden for small
businesses, both the owners and their employees. A mandatory
higher minimum wage and excessive, unnecessary regulations are
a burden for small businesses, small business owners, and their
customers. The continuance of stringent COVID-19 mandates is
burdensome to small business owners and their employees and
their customers. If I sound like a broken record, that is intentional.
The list of liberal policies that this administration and this major-
ity want to enact that will have adverse effect on small businesses
goes on and on and on.
While no one can deny that the pandemic’s emergency period is
unparalleled, what we can cling to is the knowledge that prior to
COVID-19, small businesses were operating at historic levels. We
know that because of the previous administration’s policies, and
specifically the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, small businesses’ optimism
reached record heights and the unemployment rate to an impres-
sive 3.5 percent. When small businesses have this optimism, cou-
pled with lower taxes and fewer regulations, they are more com-
fortable taking risks and our communities receive new innovations
that make the world a better place and a safer place. These are the
characteristics that drive our economy forward and keep Main
Street afloat.
To get back to our pre-COVID-19 small business environment,
we must reject these new liberal policies and continue the previous
administration’s pro-growth policies focused on tax reform and tar-
geted, smart regulation. These are commonsense principles that
allow small businesses to invest their hard-earned dollars as they
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see fit. Unfortunately, the Biden administration and the left’s eco-
nomic policies, along with the COVID-19 protective measures that
continue to hold small businesses back, cause this group to face un-
precedented challenges. Once busy Main Streets remain dormant
in locations that continue these harsh measures instituted by state
and local governments.
However, state and local governments that have lifted mandates
have seen small businesses begin to fight their way back to the
busy Main Streets of the pre-pandemic days. As the initial emer-
gency period wore on, we know Congress worked diligently as a bi-
cameral, bipartisan nature to begin the PPP and EIDL programs.
In addition, Congress extended the Debt Relief program for new
and existing 7(a), 504, and microloans. Bipartisan congressional ef-
forts also created the Shuttered Venue Operators Grant Program
for venues, theaters, and museums. These programs have aided
small businesses in every congressional district. They have helped
all business owners of all backgrounds without limiting access to
specific groups.
While these grant and loan opportunities have been vital in
keeping small businesses afloat during the emergency period, these
programs do require diligent oversight. The December COVID re-
lief bill alone delivered $325 billion to the Nation’s smallest and
hardest-hit businesses and industries. But realize, when billions of
taxpayer dollars are being used, we must insist that they are used
prudently. As I have said before, this Committee must ensure that
American taxpayer dollars are safeguarded and protected.
I look forward to the testimony of our witnesses today and thank
them for joining us. It is my hope that with your voices, we can
take the American dream, put it back into play, and return to a
pro-growth economy, rather than the destructive pro-regulation
path we are on now. Advancing all small business interests must
continue to be a priority of this Committee.
Madam Chair, with that I yield back.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Luetkemeyer. The
gentleman yields back.
I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing will
proceed. Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide a statement,
and each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for questions.
Please ensure that your microphone is on when you begin speaking
and that you return to mute when finished.
With that, I would now like to introduce our witnesses.
Our first witness is Mr. David Kallick, Deputy Director of the
Fiscal Policy Institute and Director of the institute’s immigration
research. He is the author of numerous studies of the economic and
fiscal aspect of immigration at the national, state, and local level.
In addition to his work at the Fiscal Policy Institute, he is a Vis-
iting Assistant Professor at the Pratt Institute’s Graduate School
for City and Regional Planning.
Welcome, Mr. Kallick.
Our second witness is Mr. Daniel Fitzgerald, who works for
Southwestern Community College as the Acting Regional Director
for the San Diego Imperial SBDC Regional Network. He also over-
sees the San Diego and Imperial Women’s Business Center and is
the Fiscal Agent for the California Women’s Business Center Net-
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work. For over 20 years, Daniel has been a prominent fixture in
the small business communities of San Diego County and Imperial
County. His leadership has made a significant impact on thousands
of businesses and multiple industries throughout the state of Cali-
fornia. Welcome.
Our third witness is Ms. Jaja Chen. Ms. Chen is Co-Owner and
Chief of Strategic Initiatives and Business Partnerships of Waco
Cha, LLC, a bubble tea company based in Waco, Texas. She is also
a licensed clinical social worker supervisor specializing in trauma,
burnout, and perinatal mental health through her private practice.
She received both her Bachelor’s and Master of Social Work
through the Diana Garland School of Social Work at Baylor Uni-
versity. Welcome.
Now I would like to yield to our Ranking Member to introduce
our final witness.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chair.
It is indeed my pleasure to introduce one of my constituents from
Fenton, Missouri, Mr. Jose Ponce, a very successful real estate
agent with Re/Max St. Louis Gold Homes for over 19 years. As a
successful Hispanic entrepreneur, Jose serves as a mentor to young
real estate agents and offers his assistance to the Hispanic commu-
nity through his bilingual services. He continues to advocate for
the St. Louis community and business owners everywhere. He has
been named a 30 under 30 recipient from the St. Louis Business
Journal and has been featured in several St. Louis Business Jour-
nals. In December 2016, he began the new owner of Re/Max Gold
and currently has five offices, 22 satellite offices, 66 agents, and a
referral company, Gold Realty, in which he oversees as president.
Outside of his business, Jose was a professional boxer and con-
tinues to work with local fighters and co-owns Sweat Gym in Clay-
ton, Missouri.
Mr. Ponce, thank you for being with us today. I look forward to
your testimony. And I know as a small business owner you are tak-
ing that same fighting spirit from your younger days to your own
business and to this Committee today. Thank you very much.
And Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Mr. Kallick, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF DAVID DYSSEGAARD KALLICK, DIRECTOR OF
IMMIGRATION RESEARCH INITIATIVE, FISCAL POLICY IN-
STITUTE; DANIEL FITZGERALD, ACTING REGIONAL DIREC-
TOR, SAN DIEGO & IMPERIAL SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOP-
MENT CENTER (SBDC), NETWORK, SOUTHWESTERN COMMU-
NITY COLLEGE; JAJA CHEN, CO-OWNER & CHIEF OF STRA-
TEGIC INITIATIVES & BUSINESS PARTNERSHIPS, WACO CHA,
LLC; JOSE PONCE, PRESIDENT, RE/MAX GOLD
STATEMENT OF DAVID DYSSEGAARD KALLICK
Mr. KALLICK. Thank you for the introduction, and thanks for
inviting me.
There are plenty of issues that are controversial about immi-
grants, but one thing we can say with a great deal of certainty is
that immigrants are highly entrepreneurial. I am going to talk
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today about a particular nexus, the immigrant entrepreneurship,
and the rebuilding of the U.S. economy after their COVID pan-
demic.
What will America’s Main Streets look like as we return to living
our lives without fear of COVID-19? Hopefully soon.
It is not hard to imagine two rather different scenarios. On the
one hand, a Main Street-centered rebuilding could pick up on some
of the innovations we have seen during the COVID period: outdoor
restaurants, expanded pedestrian areas, bike paths that have
transformed many downtowns and urban centers in very positive
ways. This scenario would entail Main Streets as vibrant places
where people meet, walk around, and poke into locally owned
stores and restaurants.
On the other hand, is I would say an equally likely scenario that
is much more centered on online and outskirts rebuilding and
leaves Main Streets relatively empty. That scenario is centered
around Amazon and other online retailers selling us most of what
we buy, big box stores drawing customers away from Main Streets
and towards the outskirts of town, and restaurants that are fran-
chised and look much the same everywhere. To put it a little dif-
ferently, once we can go to stores and restaurants, what small busi-
nesses will be there for us to go to?
Here is where immigrants come in. Immigrants are, in general,
more likely to be business owners but they are far more likely to
be owners of independent Main Street businesses, the shops and
services that are the backbones of neighborhoods around the coun-
try.
In a report that the Fiscal Policy Institute published together
with the American Society/Council of the Americas, we found that
immigrants make up 16 percent of the labor force, 18 percent of
small business owners, and 28 percent of Main Street business
owners. So that is a number you also heard from Representative
Velázquez. Twenty-eight percent of all of the Main Street busi-
nesses around the country are owned by immigrants.
Immigrants also play a big role in the growth of Main Street
businesses. There are 31 major metro areas where immigrant busi-
ness owners represent all of the net growth in Main Street busi-
ness ownership between 2000 and 2013. Among them are New
York, Chicago, Houston, or Washington metro areas. Maybe no big
surprise there. But there are also areas where immigrants make
up a smaller share of the overall population, yet still make up all
of the net gain in the number of Main Street business owners. For
example, Baltimore, Detroit, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Birmingham,
and Buffalo metro areas.
So, to some extent, I can make a prediction. I can predict that,
as in the past, immigrants will play a central role in this revitaliza-
tion of America’s Main Streets after COVID.
But policy will matter. Immigrants faced extraordinary chal-
lenges over this past year. They were more exposed to COVID than
the population overall, and immigrants got sick and died in dis-
proportionate numbers. The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP)
was the most important support for small businesses in the pan-
demic recession, but it well known that people of color and immi-
grants were far less likely to benefit from the PPP loans. Industries
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and geographic areas where immigrants are prevalent are very
often the same as those that were hardest hit by the pandemic re-
cession.
So, as we build back—‘‘build back better’’, if you like—Congress
should be thinking about how to correct that imbalance and nur-
ture the growth that immigrant businesses have always been a
part of.
To name just one example, will help for a small business depend
on a relationship to a big bank or will businesses that do their
banking with a Community Development Finance Institution also
get aid? Or businesses that may not have a banking relationship
at all?
I am not here today to propose a fully fleshed-out view of how
the rebuilding can happen. But I would like to underline what
seems to me an important fork in the road ahead. One path leads
to a rebuilding that is centered around Main Streets. Another is
dominated by online shopping, big box stores, chains, and fran-
chises. All of these kinds of businesses have their place, but it
would be a pity, to my mind, if the big boxes wind up with a bigger
share of our economy than they would have if it had not been for
COVID.
Thank you for having me.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Now we recognize Mr. Fitzgerald for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF DANIEL FITZGERALD
Mr. FITZGERALD. Thank you. It is an honor to speak today on
a topic that is so very important to me.
Living and working along the US-Mexican border and in a city
of immigrants in San Diego, I have seen many times over the en-
trepreneurial energy in recent migrants to the U.S. The passion,
creativity, and work ethic needed for successful entrepreneurs is so
very common in people who have fought to come to the U.S. My
name is Daniel Fitzgerald and I serve as the acting regional direc-
tor for the San Diego and Imperial Small Business Development
Center (SBDC) Network, hosted by Southwestern Community Col-
lege District. As one of the 62 SBDC networks funded by the U.S.
Small Business Administration, our work in the southernmost part
of California is to assist small business owners to grow and to help
entrepreneurs to start their business. Of course over the past 13
plus months our work has been primarily focused on helping small
business owners retain their business by accessing Federal, state,
and local disaster assistance. Beyond the capital assistance, a lot
of work has been to help small business owners navigate the
changing public health rules and still be able to reach their cus-
tomers.
The variety of COVID capital assistance programs has been crit-
ical to the survivability of small business. However, access to the
programs was varied. In our region, two of the largest barriers
faced were confusion over the different programs and access to in-
formation in their own language. Our SBDC Network has the ca-
pacity to serve in over 15 different languages. A significant portion
of our team is fluent in Spanish, but the other common languages
include Arabic, Vietnamese, Swahili, Korean, Farsi, Tagalog, Man-
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darin, and Somali. Since the onset of the pandemic, our network
has provided over 2,000 hours of one-on-one counseling in a lan-
guage other than English. We have also provided many webinars
for PPP, EIDL, and state and local capital programs in Spanish,
Arabic, and other languages. This has been critical to help
businessowners access capital.
When the first PPP deadline was approaching last June, an
owner of a nail salon was put in contact with us. She primarily
speaks Vietnamese. One of our advisors went to her business, dis-
covered her email inbox was full and she had not been receiving
emails for 2 months. He worked with her to put together her finan-
cial records, worked with a local lender, and she was able to get
her PPP loan. This is one of many examples of the hands-on, in-
language assistance we at the SBDC provide to recent migrants
during the pandemic.
Beyond the response and relief efforts the COVID-19 pandemic
has necessitated, the San Diego and Imperial SBDC Network has
an ongoing commitment to supporting small businessowners and
entrepreneurs who are immigrants. For many years, our program-
ming has provided support, in particular for small business owners
from Latin America who primarily speak Spanish.
Fernando Miramontes came to our SBDC in Imperial County, a
farming area that borders with Mexico. As a migrant from Mexico
and having been in trucking for many years, he wanted to start his
own transportation company. Working with our SBDC advisor and
Accion (now Accessity), a local non-profit lender, he was able to
complete his business plan, do the required legal steps, and obtain
capital to purchase a truck to start his business. In 2018, thanks
to additional funding from the State of California and increased
funding from the SBA, we were able to expand our network of sub-
awarded service centers from four to eight. Two partners in par-
ticular were added to increase our SBDC Network’s reach into im-
migrant communities by awarding service center contracts to both
the Asian Business Association of San Diego and the International
Rescue Committee.
At the SBDC, we strive to provide both linguistically and cul-
turally correct training and counseling. Besides providing assist-
ance in the preferred language of the client, our SBDC advisors
also base assistance in knowledge and understanding of the busi-
ness environment and regulations in the country of origin. For ex-
ample, an SBDC advisor helping an entrepreneur start, helps them
understand and navigate the roles of different governmental enti-
ties in the U.S., such as how the county governs health codes, the
state governs sales tax, and the city will provide a business license.
Business owner Naw Say Phaw came to San Diego in 2014 as a
refugee from Malaysia. Upon resettling in San Diego, Naw Say
wanted to start her own business but had no previous experience
and was also unsure of the various licenses, permits and regula-
tions required on the local and state levels. IRC came to the inter-
national rescue community SBDC for help, and after receiving as-
sistance, including a small loan, AYA Mini Market was launched.
A major program at the San Diego and Imperial SBDC Network
is assisting entrepreneurs to start in-home childcare centers and
also to support childcare businesses to expand. The SBDC provides
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extensive childcare startup training, helping primarily women to
navigate the state rules to open a childcare center, then to work
with local organizations who provide vouchers for childcare for
working people in obtaining clients. These childcare providers sup-
port the community not just by having a business but providing
critical childcare for working parents by someone who is from their
own community, speaks their native language, and follows their
cultural norms.
Today, the SBDC programs also work to help the childcare busi-
nesses expand, including a program with the San Diego and Impe-
rial Women’s Business Center and Southwestern College’s Family
Studies department. And the SBDC works to help the businesses
develop into larger childcare centers, including Sarah and Rafat
Illaian who worked with our North San Diego SBDC to obtain a
$250,000 SBA-backed loan.
From childcare, to restaurants, to the Internet of things, the im-
migrant entrepreneur and small business owner is critical to cur-
rent and future of our small business ecosystem. As our economy
comes back from the COVID-19 pandemic, the passion, hard work,
and creativity of our immigrant communities can and will play a
critical part to helping our recovery to be inclusive and even better.
Thank you.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Daniel Fitzgerald.
Now we recognize Ms. Chen for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JAJA CHEN
Ms. CHEN. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Representative
Velázquez, Ranking Member Luetkemeyer, and distinguished mem-
bers of the Committee on Small Business. Thank you for the honor
providing testimony before the House Committee on Small Busi-
ness today.
My name is Jaja Chen and I am here today on behalf of my
small business, Waco Cha, representing the over 3.4 million immi-
grant-owned businesses in the U.S., approximately 2 million of
which are owned by an Asian American Pacific Islander (AAPI). I
am a daughter of Taiwanese immigrants. My parents are from a
small farm town on the East Coast of Hualian. My parents and an-
cestors are Hakka Chinese, HakkaYin, in which the literal trans-
lation means guest families. I come from a line of Hakka farmers,
educators, and business owners that worked hard and moved
across lands as guest people to pave the pathway for what we do
today.
As a child, I remember going to Asian supermarkets in Okla-
homa City with my mom to help her find ingredients to prepare
Taiwanese dishes. I observed how to make boba tea, dumplings,
and other delicious food at home. At the age of 13, I moved to
China with my parents as they returned overseas to work and I
completed high school in Taiwan and eventually moved to Waco,
Texas for college. My husband Devin Li, an immigrant first-genera-
tion from Guangzhou, China, and I met at Baylor University. After
I completed school, we got married and settled in Waco due to job
opportunities, I as a social worker and Devin as an engineering
high school teacher. Throughout our time in Waco post-graduation,
we enjoyed getting involved in the downtown community by sup-
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porting local small businesses. Devin’s students at a local Waco
ISD high school, the majority of whom identify as Hispanic or
Black, often voiced feelings of not belonging and thoughts of not
being able to see representation of their cultures within downtown
development.
As immigrants and children of Chinese and Taiwanese immi-
grants, Devin and I both resonate with this experience. In fact, we
would often drive on weekends to Dallas or Austin to stop by an
Asian grocery store, similar to what I did as a child with my mom,
and we hoped for Waco to one day have an authentic boba tea cafe.
Well, rather than hoping for this to one day happen, we were in-
spired to start a business that celebrates diversity and cultures. We
opened our Saturday morning Waco Cha popup tent in summer of
2018. That first year was filled with time spent educating our com-
munity about boba and Taiwanese and Chinese culture. We even
had one individual come up to us yelling that we are not truly
Texan and spit out the samples that we offered them.
After 1 year of popups, we upgraded from the tent to our mobile
tea truck, and then we grew our first storefront this past year in
downtown Waco alongside an additional launch of our Chinese
dumpling food concept in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. In
fact, the week that our boba tea shop was cleared by the Health
Department to open, was the week that Waco’s shelter-in-place
order was enacted. During the early months of the pandemic, we
had to quickly pivot our business. We delayed our new storefront
opening for about 3 months and took precautionary steps by shut-
ting down our operations when some team members had potential
COVID-19 exposures.
We also had many challenges navigating the SBA PPP process,
but despite this, our community and guests showed up to support
us by pre-purchasing gift cards to help us stay afloat, and many
also came regularly to show support as we used our mobile tea
truck to offer drinks.
Our values are lived out both within our team through the ways
we strive to represent our culture through our shop and products
and the ways we seek to hire diverse team members. Our culture
values hospitality and that really leads us to find deep joy in devel-
oping business partnerships. In fact, one of my greatest joys this
past year in our community work was partnering with the NAACP
to host nonpartisan voter registration booths on-site at our boba
tea shop.
As we continue growing in profit, we are also seeking to give
back to local nonprofits around us, and this has included contrib-
uting portions of our profits recently to support nonprofit funds
that benefit the AAPI community, particularly with the rise of anti-
Asian hate crimes within our nation. We now have 19 team mem-
bers on staff and look forward to continuing to grow our team as
we open our second boba tea shop in downtown Temple, Texas this
upcoming year.
I am thankful to the House of Representatives and Committee
members as you continue to highlight the gift of immigration, par-
ticularly as we recover from the COVID-19. Our lives in America
are enriched and our economy is stronger when we celebrate the
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diverse and rich perspectives, stories, and experiences of immi-
grants. Thank you.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Chen.
Now we recognize Mr. Ponce for 5 minutes.
Mr. Ponce, you may need to unmute.
STATEMENT OF JOSE PONCE
Mr. PONCE. Thank you, Madam Chair.
My name is Jose Ponce, an entrepreneur from the St. Louis re-
gion. I am honored to be before you and this Committee today to
speak about the challenges and opportunities in the Hispanic en-
trepreneur community.
I have invested and owned various businesses in the last 20
years. I am proud to be an Hispanic entrepreneur. Hispanic entre-
preneurs business ownership has surged in the past decade, out-
pacing any other ethnic group. According to the new study from the
Stanford Latino Entrepreneur Initiative in 2020, this study shows
that in the pat 10 years, Latino business owners have grown 34
percent compared to 1 percent for all other owners in the United
States.
This is good news and bad news in these numbers. As a culture,
Hispanics gravitate toward starting businesses and being their own
boss, creating a legacy for their families. But there are strong bar-
riers for growth. One extreme barrier is discrimination when it
comes to banks and lending. The recent study in 2020 that found
that 20 percent of Latino-owned businesses that applied to national
banks for loans over $100,000 received funding, compared with 50
percent of White-owned businesses. The discrepancy was even larg-
er when looking at firms with annual revenues over $1 million who
were requesting similar-size loans. Twenty-nine percent of Latino-
owned businesses go the loans versus 76 percent of White-owned
businesses. Even after controlling for business performance meas-
ures, the odds of loan approval from national banks were 60 per-
cent lower for Latino-owned businesses.
I have personally experienced this when I sought funding from
banks. For example, when I was purchasing my real estate com-
pany, I had to personally fund $350,000 of the $500,000 purchase
price. Even with my 20 years of experience, there has been times
that I was not able to acquire bigger opportunities because of the
barriers of bank funding.
I believe one problem may be the continued decline of inde-
pendent banks who many feel better understand the needs of the
local communities. The independent banks simply have a better
pulse on what is happening in their local community.
Loans from the bigger banks tend to be more concentrated on
high technology rather than traditional business. (That is on Bates
and Bradford, 2007.)
The Stanford study makes an especially important point. The
study states, ‘‘Latinos are going to be one-third of the population
in the future and their success will have an enormous impact on
the future economic success of the United States. If the Latino por-
tion of the economy is not more developed economically, the whole
economy will suffer.’’
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So how do we harness the power of the immigrant? Maybe it is
a better awareness of how the government can assist this commu-
nity, such as the Small Business Administration as stated earlier.
Possibly, the Hispanic community could be educated on how to le-
verage the existing Federal opportunity zones. Additionally, I be-
lieve the large banks need to be better educated on the benefits of
investing with Hispanic entrepreneurs and their busineses. Rela-
tionships between my fellow Hispanic entrepreneurs and tradi-
tional banks need to be strengthened. The old saying goes, ‘‘People
do business with people they know and like.’’
We have proven we are a community of hardworking entre-
preneurs. There are about 400,000 Latino-owned employer busi-
nesses in the United States before the panic. They generated near-
ly $500 billion in annual revenue and employed 3.4 million people.
We want the same equal opportunity to grow our businesses and
have access to capital when we have shown we have experience to
take on bigger opportunities that will fuel the U.S. economic en-
gine. We have the ‘‘can do’’ American spirit that historically built
this country.
Madam Chair, it has been an honor to speak to this Committee
today. Thank you.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Ponce.
Now I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. Thank you
so much to all the witnesses for your compelling stories and shar-
ing the important role that immigrants play in our economy.
Mr. Kallick, I would like to address my first question to you.
Immigrant-owned businesses were particularly important in the
recovery from the Great Recession, adding more than 200,000 jobs,
thousands of small businesses between the period of 2007 to 2014,
a period when the economy was shedding jobs. They may not have
fared as well given the nature of the COVID-19 pandemic. How do
we ensure these businesses are fully utilized for this recovery as
well?
Mr. KALLICK. Thank you for the question.
Yeah, I mean, I think it is instructive to think about the com-
parison to what happened after the Great Recession where I would
say I think it is right that the immigrant small businesses played
a big role in the revitalization after the Great Recession. I think
immigrants and people of color were also devastated during that
recession by home laws. And so I think there is a real danger to
my mind that the destruction of capital gains and of people’s
wealth, people of color, immigrants during the Great Recession,
they lost their homes. And during this recession they could be los-
ing their businesses. So I think we really need to pay a lot of atten-
tion to I think, you know, not the question of whether there is some
special program but how do we make sure that people are not ex-
cluded from the rebuilding process as they have been already in
various ways.
I think we heard a little bit of a thread going through everything
is the question of access to capital. And how do you make sure that
it is not just immigrants relying on big banks where they may not
have very good relationships to be able to get business loans.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Kallick.
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Ms. Chen, I see you and I hear you. I have the honor of rep-
resenting two Chinatowns in my district out of three here in New
York City. It is no secret that the public rhetoric around the
COVID-19 pandemic and China have fueled anti-Asian American
hate incidents. Have you or anyone you know experienced this
firsthand? Has it made you fear for the safety of your business or
your customers?
Ms. CHEN. Thank you, Chairwoman Velázquez, for that ques-
tion. In fact, last night I was at a protest on campus at Baylor Uni-
versity because just recently a student near campus was physically
assaulted and attacked and had racial slurs spoken against them
near campus. And so I was standing with the AAPI community last
night at this protest. I, myself, personally have not experienced the
physical attacks against me but I do have fears or concerns regard-
ing attacks potentially impacting my team members or even my
own business, especially as we are more outspoken and continue to
speak up and stand against this issue.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Any suggestions from your end that
we need to do in order to tone down this hateful rhetoric and build
better relationships with the AAPI community?
Ms. CHEN. Well, you know, outside of my work as a boba tea
entrepreneur, I am a trauma therapist and social worker. And so
with the rise of all the hate crimes, I personally have even seen a
rise of communities within the AAPI community seeking therapy.
And so I know that there is such a mass need for mental health
support and accessible support. And so I urge Congress to continue
funding advocacy centers or even local community mental health
centers that provide multilingual, multicultural services. And that
is particularly the case in places like Waco where it is a bit more
rural and so there is less funding opportunities, you know, in our
community for accessible mental health.
And in addition, I think it just starts with the leadership. Right?
It is important as leaders for us to stand and to speak against anti-
Asian hate crimes. And it really starts at the leadership setting
that tone with not just speaking about the importance of being
against these hate crimes but also having tangible policies or even
tangible evidence of, okay, this is what we are going to do be-
yond——
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. I have seen the economic
impact that this has had in our communities. I toured Chinatown
communities in Manhattan, lower Manhattan and in Brooklyn, and
saw how in the beginning they were closing their doors after 5:00
because they were really afraid of their lives and the safety of their
customers. We need to do better.
Mr. Fitzgerald, have you come into any interactions with commu-
nity navigators that we included as part of the PPP and EIDL and
if so, has that played any role in providing information to the busi-
nesses?
Mr. FITZGERALD. Absolutely. That was why a number of years
ago we expanded our network of service centers to include the
International Rescue Committee, which is a refugee resettlement
agency, which is very heavily embedded in communities in San
Diego, the Asian Business Association of San Diego, and of course
at Southwestern College, we are an Hispanic-serving institution
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and worked heavily in those communities. That is why language
services and being very intentional with who is our staff and work-
ing that really they are able to be able to work within the commu-
nity, be part of the community, and to be able to provide those
services.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. My time has now ex-
pired.
The Ranking Member, Mr. Luetkemeyer, is recognized for 5 min-
utes.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to start with Mr. Ponce. You know, Mr. Kallick
made the comment a minute ago that policy will matter as we re-
build the economy here. And I think along that line, President
Biden has pledged to repeal the Trump administration’s pro-busi-
ness Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. The administration lowered taxes and
reduced regulatory environment I believe generated a small busi-
ness economy that was filled with optimism and confidence. Small
business owners were investing in their employees, their compa-
nies, and their communities. As a result, the Nation saw historic
levels of unemployment and job creation.
As a small business owner, can you give me your thoughts on the
Biden tax plan?
Mr. PONCE. Yes, thank you, Representative Luetkemeyer.
You know, it is my understanding that there is going to be sub-
stantial cuts coming down the line and the increase in taxes. You
know, I can speak freely of my current economic view here locally
in our local market. The reality is what we had before within the
Trump administration, it allowed us to really excel and grow in our
diverse market being that we are in the Midwest. But right now
as we stand I feel that we need to really reimplement or rethink
through that process of allowing small business owners the oppor-
tunities and the capabilities to grow and succeed with the financial
opportunities that are out there that everyone else is able to ob-
tain. Thank you.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. To allow you to keep your own dollars
with tax cuts and be able to invest those as you saw fit, either in,
you know, buying another business or expanding your business,
more inventory, hiring more people, that allowed you to grow your
business as you saw fit and improve the entire community with you
investing in and growing your business I would say. Is that a fair
statement?
Mr. PONCE. That is a very fair statement. It gives me the flexi-
bility and it would give us really the flexibility to grow and con-
tinue to grow to the market share that we want to tackle.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So if those taxes are raised and you wind
up with increased regulation, it is going to suck money out of your
operating capital, out of your operating money to be able to do
those things and it is going to restrict your ability to grow I would
assume. Is that correct?
Mr. PONCE. It would definitely limit our growth. That is correct,
Representative Luetkemeyer.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Something else that sort of really piqued
my interest here is I serve on the Financial Services Committee as
well. I am the Ranking Member on Financial Institutions, which
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oversees the banks and credit unions and those folks. And so when
you talked about the inability of big banks to really address the im-
migrants’ basic needs for capital, that really struck a chord with
me because I am concerned the numbers will bear out, you made
the point about community banks. You know, your local bank that
is independently owned and run and basically they invest in the
community. And as a community grows, they grow, versus the big
bank which has a completely different business model. The num-
bers bear out that the smaller banks actually make more, signifi-
cantly more business models out of their deposit base than big
banks do. So it did not surprise me when you made that comment,
especially when it comes to beginning, you know, startup busi-
nesses, the capital. The big banks will be glad to take the business
once it is off and running but it is a little difficult to get that start-
up capital.
So I guess my question to you is, we have got some concerns with
the small business program because of some reports that we are
getting from the IG and the Government Accountability Office of
some problems there with regards to our ability to provide over-
sight. And I am considering looking at having the banks do more
of that.
So in your experience with the banks with regard, even to SBA
programs, were the small community banks able to deliver on those
dollars, on those programs in a way that it was giving you the in-
formation you needed and be able to give you the dollars that you
needed to be able to get through your startup and getting going
through the PPP program, things like that?
Mr. PONCE. Yes, Representative Luetkemeyer. The opportuni-
ties were given to me by the smaller, local banking institution that
actually understood and really read through my experience and my
vision of what I wanted to do with our company. They were not 100
percent onboard completely with funding. I had to, again, for exam-
ple, in the acquisition of this firm in 2016, you know, they gave me
some but not all. They wanted me to step up to the plate and put
my own skin in the game and it just turned out that I had to put
a substantial amount more skin in the game than the bank was
willing to savor on my end. But they were definitely much more re-
ceptive versus the bigger branch banking institutions out there.
They really looked at me as an individual, who I am and what I
envisioned of our operation but the bigger banks did not give me
the time nor the availability to sit down and understand exactly
what I wanted to do with our organization.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you for that. My time is about up.
Mr. Fitzgerald, in a world where you saw SBA as a guarantor
of loans and grants versus the direct lending or direct grantee, how
would you see the SBDC’s role in that? Is that something you could
see expand and be an initiator of those loans, for instance, or those
grants, for instance?
Mr. FITZGERALD. What we do is mainly help people navigate
the lending process, complete their applications, complete their
business plans so that way it is a much easier process for the lend-
er to be able to underwrite and help them understand what that
particular process is.
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Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Could you see it expand a role for you
though in that regard?
Mr. FITZGERALD. Always, because that is really what we focus
on is access to capital in a lot of ways.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman’s time has expired.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Now we recognize the gentleman
from Colorado, Mr. Crow, for 5 minutes.
Mr. CROW. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to all the
witnesses. This is an extremely important hearing for me in par-
ticular. I represent the most diverse district in the state of Colo-
rado, one of the most divers in the Nation where we are home to
many immigrants and refugees. I have over 160 languages spoken
in my district and about 20 percent of my constituents were actu-
ally born outside of the United States. And the comment earlier by
several of you that are immigrants and refugees, entrepreneurs,
resonates very strongly with me because I see so many of those
folks come here and they start businesses—restaurants, bakeries.
You know, the mom and pop shops on the corner are oftentimes
run by immigrants and refuges and it really is kind of like the life-
blood of our economy but actually makes our community a lot more
stronger and vibrant and a great place to live. So it is an extremely
important topic for me.
One issue that I would love you all to touch on, and this goes
back to the access to capital which, of course, is a common thread
throughout much of this. But, you know, I have folks who had been
business owners for decades back where they lived before they
came to the United States, and then when they immigrated here
or sought refugee status here, they are starting from scratch be-
cause their credit histories, their credit ratings do not translate
back from where they ran businesses to where they are now. So
they are starting from scratch and it is really a tough thing for
them to grow that.
Can you touch on, you know, how can we address that issue?
How can we be creative and innovative and give some folks some
credit for sometimes decades of business ownership so they are not
starting from ground zero again?
Maybe start with Mr. Kallick and then go to Mr. Daniel Fitz-
gerald.
Mr. KALLICK. Sure. Thanks for raising that.
So the report that I was referring to before is the report we did
about immigrant Main Street businesses. And one of the questions
we looked at was exactly that issue of what makes for better lend-
ing practices.
One of the things that I thought was striking and surprised me
in some ways as we did the research was the issue seemed to me
not so much about widening the doors, sort of letting the people
qualify more, but it was more about, so in other words, like not
providing different terms but it was more about how do you make
sure that the lenders can have the time to really evaluate the po-
tential business, you know, borrowers? And so I think, you know,
the more that you can do to support community developing finance
institutions, community development corporations, sort of people
who can have individual relationships with business owners and,
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you know, figure out who is a good credit risk. It is not doing any-
body a favor if you lend people money and they cannot pay it back.
Right? That gets them in trouble but it also gets the bank or the
lender in trouble. So you really do want to say how do you evaluate
somebody’s credit worthiness? But I think what you are pointing
out is that immigrants and refugees in particular, you know, the
usual ways that we do that may not fit very well. So just being
able to look at somebody’s credit history is not a very good indi-
cator of that. So I would say invest the time really of the loan offi-
cers. And, I mean, I guess if I could say one more thing about that
I would say how do you make sure that you are really connecting
people with the kinds of business services that help them to grow
as they are doing the borrowing?
Mr. CROW. Thank you.
Mr. Fitzgerald, a short answer, because I would like to get Ms.
Chen’s view on that as well.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Absolutely. I just want to echo what Mr.
Kallick was speaking about and the need for microlenders and very
small business lenders. The continuation of the SBA Microlending
program is critical. But also looking at early loans that are based
on social credit which are kind of credit-building loans which are
very, very small are critical as well.
Mr. CROW. Thank you.
Ms. Chen, any thoughts on this?
Ms. CHEN. Yes. Because we were underfunded from the PPP, we
actually relied heavily on community support and had opportuni-
ties to apply through a local nonprofit for a KIVA Microfinance
Loan, actually. That was pretty recently. And so I think utilizing
microfinancing can actually be very critical for small businesses
like ourselves, especially programs like KIVA where there is 0 per-
cent interest and it does not rely on your credit to be able to access.
Instead, it is focusing more on social credit trustworthiness.
Mr. CROW. Thank you. I appreciate very much that view and for
everyone’s hard work.
I yield back, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. The gentleman yields
back.
Now we recognize the Vice Ranking Member Mr. Williams from
Texas for 5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the
witnesses. And thank you to our ranking Chairman for this.
As the owner of auto dealerships in Texas and a small business
owner, I know firsthand how devastating President Biden’s cor-
porate tax increase would be on Main Street America. You know,
raising taxes will only cause businesses to invest less in operations,
to hire few employees. They will cut employees so they can save
money to pay the increase in taxes. And I know when we cut taxes
under the Trump administration it caused the labor market to
tighten which was a good thing. We had to compete to attract
workers which led to higher wages for all employees.
So I know this story is not unique to just the car business. The
bottom line is all small businesses, regardless of ethnicity, will be
affected with any increase in the corporate tax rate. It is a disaster
when you raise taxes.
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So Mr. Ponce, as someone in the real estate market, can you ex-
plain—you have done a good job so far—of how President Biden’s
tax increase would affect your business and doing away with things
like the like-kind exchange, treating capital gains as ordinary in-
come, inflation, all that is going to be affected with you. How is it
going to affect your business?
Mr. PONCE. Thank you, Representative Williams.
I believe as stated earlier with Representative Luetkemeyer, if
the tax increase does assess itself, I feel that it will make it very
difficult for us to sustain our business due to the fact that we
would have to use literally our own financial resources and not
have the opportunity to really bridge the assistance of bigger banks
or anything of that nature to assist us and continue to grow. But
here in our local market there are too may weighing factors in my
honest opinion of how it is going to affect us. And the major one
is the growth. It is allowing us to continue to grow as a company.
And not only just in the real estate market but I would assert to
say, an strongly assert to say that in any type of business entity,
if they increase taxes it will definitely hinder our potential for
growth and our opportunity to really generate potential future rev-
enue for our industry.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you.
So what is good for small business is good for America. I believe
that. Most of us do.
We need to stop focusing on what increased government spend-
ing can do for Main Street America and shift our efforts to building
an economy that incentivizes entrepreneurship and grows what I
call the real economy, small business owners and not the govern-
ment’s economy.
So Mr. Fitzgerald, you mentioned the Small Business Develop-
ment Centers offer assistance to people who are looking to start or
expand their business. With COVID-19 bringing many unique chal-
lenges for businesses to confront moving forward, I want to ensure
that we are using these resources as effectively as possible. So can
you briefly talk about some of the ways the SBDCs should be
changing the way they assist small businesses as we are regaining
normalcy back in Texas. We are back to normal in Texas and we
should get America that way.
Mr. FITZGERALD. So right now we are still, of course, con-
tinuing to focus on the relief programs. The last month of PPP is
coming up but we are already beginning to see a strong increase
in entrepreneurship and business starts. So we are ramping up
again our programs on how to start a business, how we can go to
those programs, including newly expanding a lot on childcare busi-
nesses, as well as foodservice businesses. In addition, we have real-
ly continued to grow our services around the innovation economy
here in San Diego. We have a very strong life science sector and
that has continued to expand at which a number of immigrants
certainly work in that sector as well. And so basically getting back
to the core services that we were providing pre-pandemic is what
we need to do very, very soon as the relief programs begin to ex-
pire.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Okay. So when the pandemic began, large
stores were able to remain open while mom and pop shops were
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forced to shut their doors. I was very opposed to these orders since
the government should never pick winners and losers and be decid-
ing what businesses are essential and ones that are not and the
ones that can operate. Small franchise businesses of which I am
that and the mom and pop stores are the strength of this country
and of Main Street.
So Mr. Kallick, in your testimony you talked about some of the
long-term effects of the COVID lockdowns if we do not revitalize
Main Street America.
Can you go into a little more detail for the people listening today
on the long-term effects of COVID-19, how it could shift the com-
petitive landscape of the economy?
Mr. KALLICK. Sure. Thanks for the question. I think my con-
cern is that big businesses and some of the online businesses may
squeeze out the more locally oriented business. I would say that it
strikes me as unlikely. We do not know what the tax proposals are
in any detail but it is unlikely that the small businesses we are
talking about here are going to see really significant impacts from
those. They are aimed largely at wealthy people and corporations
that are making big profits. And I think what is really important
is creating a climate of confidence in downtown growth. I think
people need to be able to feel like they are, first of all, safe. They
can trust the government to tell them when it is okay and when
they can really go safely without feeling that there is a health risk.
And I think they have to feel like there is money in the economy
to be able to support the reopening and risking of small businesses.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman’s time has expired.
Now we recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Phillips
for 5 minutes.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to to-
day’s witnesses. I am quite encouraged that our Committee is hav-
ing this conversation today because most of us have foremothers
and forefathers who came to America, bringing the very same am-
bitions and seeking the very same opportunities and possibilities
that today’s immigrants seek for themselves and their families.
And I am one of those people. My great, great grandparents came
to the United States in the late 19th century, built successful busi-
nesses, and perhaps most importantly, shared that success, and we
continue to share that success with the very communities that
made it possible.
As you all know, some of America’s most innovative and
impactful enterprises were founded by immigrants. Even today,
Moderna, one of the companies leading the way in the COVID-19
vaccine was founded by an immigrant. eBay introduced the entire
world to ecommerce founded by immigrants. Tesla and SpaceX,
writing history in the energy and automobile and space sectors,
founded by an immigrant. The story of how these companies rose
to their position is really a uniquely American story and there are
stories of the United States welcoming talent. I stress welcoming
talent from all over the world. And that is why I am a significant
advocate and supporter of proposals throughout Congress to afford
more visas to foreign-born entrepreneurs who wish to develop their
companies in the U.S., provide jobs to Americans, and improve
communities.
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To my colleagues who are arguing for lower taxes, we all want
lower taxes. We also need better roads and bridges and airports
and electrical grid. We need a trained workforce. We need
healthcare for human beings so they can be productive employees.
And I ask all of us to unify behind the investments we need to
make and ways to pay for them.
Mr. Kallick, I will start with you. In your research relative to im-
migration, what impact have you found that immigrant entre-
preneurs have had on job growth and creation in the United
States?
Mr. KALLICK. Well, so certainly as you point out, I mean, very
significant in the overall economy. I think one particularly inter-
esting thing from our research was the sort of bread and butter of
economic growth which is that Main Street small business growth
and the way in which immigrants have often found kind of niches
that are unexplored or undeveloped within the economy.
I think something that was particularly surprising in our re-
search was how important that was in some cities that had seen
overall economic decline—Detroit, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cin-
cinnati—where immigrants were filling in those niches and helping
the local neighborhoods to grow. And I think that is in some ways
the story of some of the bigger metro areas as well but I would say
it is more striking in some ways and maybe more surprising in
some of those smaller metro areas.
Mr. PHILLIPS. I should ask if there are risks to the U.S. econ-
omy that we should be concerned about if Congress and the White
House do not take steps to increase the number of legal immi-
grants in the United States.
Mr. Kallick or any of our other witnesses, I would welcome your
perspective on that question. Anybody? All right.
Mr. KALLICK. I am happy to say something. I am happy to say
something on it. I do not want to be the only one talking but I
mean, I think, sure. I mean, look, I do not think that endless popu-
lation growth is necessarily always and in every case a good thing.
But I think having population decline is a real danger to the econ-
omy where we have in lots of cities, and we have seen this. We
have got a substantial amount of built infrastructure that is going
underutilized and if we do not have people who can revitalize that
and bring that back into productive use I think you see a real loss
to the overall economy. And a number of the metro areas, a num-
ber of the cities are just at that tipping point.
Within New York State—Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester, Albany—
every time the census comes out people are looking to see, you
know, is there a population decline or a little bit of finally popu-
lation increase. And without immigration I think we are not going
to see that population increase. And similarly, not the revitaliza-
tion of these cities.
Mr. PHILLIPS. I can tell you in my business career there are
two ways to grow enteprises—either find new consumers at home
and/or new opportunities to market products abroad. Many of you
are familiar with forward.us@wd.us. They published a report re-
cently in collaboration with George Mason University, that found
that the U.S. risks losing its status as the world’s largest economy
by 2030 if policymakers do not take steps to expand legal immigra-
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tion. That report, which I would like to enter into the record,
Madam Chair, found that current population trends and immigra-
tion levels will lead to the U.S. economy being only three-quarters
of the size of China by 2050.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Without objection.
Mr. PHILLIPS. I am sorry?
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Without objection.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you.
And that influx of legal immigrants would help keep entitlement
programs, like Social Security and Medicare from going insolvent,
something that we surely could all agree on.
I do see my time is expiring, Madam Chair. I yield back and
thank you again to our witnesses for being with us today.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
Now we recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Hagedorn.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the op-
portunity, and thanks for holding this hearing.
I guess at the start I would say we have to always remember the
United States is the most generous country in the world when it
comes to legal immigration. We bring in over a million people a
year and I think many of us would like to see that including merit-
based immigration so we can have more people that want to come
here and fulfill the American dream and continue this entrepre-
neurial spirit which flourishes in our system of free enterprise. And
I think at any point in our history we look back and whether it is
the Germans or the Italians immigrating or people fleeing Com-
munism in Cuba or folks coming here for economic opportunity,
whatever, folks have been able to flourish in this system and we
have to maintain our system, rather than go towards socialism.
I see some of this up front. My wife, Jennifer, was born in Korea.
She was adopted by two great people in Minnesota at a very young
age and brought to our country. Now one of the ways that she has
fulfilled the American dream is she is a retail small business
owner. Her business is up in Congressman Stauber’s district. Con-
gressman Stauber, of course, a member of our Committee. And I
think whether you are somebody that came to America and started
a business or you are somebody who has been here many, many
generations, we are all in the same boat. And what we need to do
is to make sure that we have a system with good government that
is going to allow people to have the best opportunity possible in
order to take their dreams and ideas and turn them into something
and keep growing. And that means, you know, if you look back the
last 4 years, we had that in our economy and it was a good econ-
omy for small businesses of any sort. We had tax reform, which
was very successful. Less regulations, and a lot of business owners
will tell you that is very important, particularly in the banking in-
dustry where you are talking about where community bankers
were wiped out because of bad regulations coming out of Dodd-
Frank.
And then you look at things like low-cost energy. Many busi-
nesses thrive because they can keep their costs downward and then
trade deals like USMCA and others.
But then you kind of look at the other side of the coin, bad gov-
ernment policies and how tough it can be on business. In the state
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of Minnesota, I would like to associate myself with Congressman
Williams’s statements about the lockdowns. In Minnesota, we had
lockdowns here where our governor used emergency powers to basi-
cally pick winners and losers and decide that the retail small busi-
ness owners had to shut down and the restaurants and everybody
else but the big box stores and the online only stores, they were
wide open. And they were getting all that business. On top of that
in Minnesota, we had businesses across the border at places like
South Dakota, Iowa, and Wisconsin, they were open. Our busi-
nesses were shut down. Our people were hurt. They are still strug-
gling with that to this day and probably will into the years to come.
That was not good.
Another bad government policy, and this one comes from Con-
gress, this one comes from the national group. What is going on
with unemployment compensation and the way we were throwing
out benefits and money to people during this COVID has made it
so people literally do better staying at home. They make more
money than if they go to work. And if you talk to any business
owner across this country for the most part, big, small, or other-
wise, they are having a really tough time finding people to work.
And a lot of that is because of bad policies put together by the Con-
gress, by the president, and we have got to stop that. We have to
get back to where we have people getting incentives to go back to
work, get into the private sector, do their jobs. Because we are
going to have business literally losing market share or going out
of business because they just cannot find a workforce, skilled or
otherwise. So I am part of those solutions in Congress. I hope we
can all join together and move that forward.
So Mr. Ponce, you are a small business owner. You have seen
some of this. I will just let you kind of respond to what I have been
saying.
Mr. PONCE. Thank you, Representative Hagedorn. You are 100
percent correct. As stated earlier by Representative Luetkemeyer,
in my bio, I also own a fitness facility in the Clayton area here in
the St. Louis market. And government, that may be that it is cur-
rently seen in our area, did just that. They unfortunately put us
in a position where small businesses were almost put out of extinc-
tion because of the way they decided on who stays open and who
does not. But the reality is there has got to be some equal share
or responsibility on all sides, you know, from local government to
national government. And in my opinion, here on a local level there
are many obstacles that we still have to overcome.
To your point, Representative Hagedorn, in regards to the unem-
ployment and the people that are currently rather wanting to stay
home versus going back to their normal jobs, that now that the op-
portunity is there they decide to stay home because they make
more money doing that instead of having to go to work, there has
got to be some clarification and there has got to be some type of
balance. You know, this government was built on immigrants as
everyone here on this panel and this Committee is well aware of.
And I am very thankful to say that I am one of those that is trying
to build my American dream here, but we definitely need the sup-
port of local government to allow us to continue to grow and not
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put us in positions where we have to be challenged day to day on
how to grow. Thank you.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Thank you. I appreciate your time.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman’s time has expired.
Now we recognize the gentlelady from Illinois, Ms. Newman, for
5 minutes.
Ms. NEWMAN. Well, thank you very much. Good afternoon, ev-
erybody. So pleased to be here. Thank you, Chairwoman, and
thank you, Ranking Member Luetkemeyer.
So a couple of things for the record, and I think it is important
to say that I think we all have had Econ 101 and many other econ
classes so that we know that our economy only grows when we
have more people being productive. So limiting the number of peo-
ple in this country is really a bad idea because we will not be as
productive. Our GDP will never grow. So that is one.
Two is that I just want to be clear for the record in writing that
we did not pick losers and winners. What we did do was provide
science and we provided great outline as to how people can stay
safe as they keep their businesses open. And so they can make
choices for themselves, their staff, and their customers. So pleased
that our government did that and continues to do that. And I am
so pleased small business is coming back.
As a former small business owner and someone that has a strong
advisory council in my district that I meet with once a month, I
hear about their challenges. And I am incredibly concerned.
So a few things. I do understand that President Biden’s plan
does not include small businesses all the way down with the 21 to
28 percent or whatever it might be. That most of the businesses
that we are talking about here would not be affected by the tax in-
crease. So let’s get that out there. We will learn more as the weeks
go on.
I also want to ask Mr. Ponce and Ms. Chen a couple of direct
questions about their businesses because I have asked this of hun-
dreds of small businesses in my district and I keep on getting two
answers. So I will tell you what the answers are but tell me if you
are hearing something differently.
So the first question for both of you is, are you both having trou-
ble with hiring folks? Meaning finding folks to work in your busi-
nesses.
And I will go to Ms. Chen first.
Ms. CHEN. So thank you for that question. Specifically for us,
we are not having trouble hiring. In fact, we have had a lot of indi-
viduals eager to work and even get off of unemployment, desiring
to go back into the workforce and are eager to serve. And I specifi-
cally am in the food and beverage industry in particular. And I
think part of why a lot of folks have wanted to work for us is be-
cause we have ensured that our company is going to be transparent
about safety and even continued requiring our customers, along
with our staff to wear masks despite the state of Texas mandates
that have lifted those.
Ms. NEWMAN. Right. Good. Well, I am so pleased to hear that.
And it is funny. When I do hear that there are workforce problems,
it is usually attached to childcare. So I think we are hearing con-
sistent things, is that people are dying to come back if they do not
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have childcare concerns, but when they have childcare concerns
they are having trouble getting back to work because there is no
where to put their children right now so that they can work. So
thank you for your answer.
And then Mr. Ponce, I will ask you the same thing. Are you hav-
ing labor workforce recruitment issues or are you not?
Mr. PONCE. Thank you for that question, Representative New-
man.
As stated earlier, within my industry, we are a little bit of a
unique industry. We are, obviously, in the real estate industry, so
we are not having that issue at the very moment, but I am in-
volved in other businesses that my fellow colleague and entre-
preneurs are having issues finding and hiring people due to the
fact of the local government’s issuance on how they are wanting to
return back to work but do not choose to because of the unemploy-
ment benefits that they are receiving.
Ms. NEWMAN. Okay. So you have not heard from any of them
that potentially it was childcare related.
And then I have one more question for you.
Mr. PONCE. Yes. This is mainly related to the restaurant indus-
try and the fitness industry that I am also well aware of in our
local market.
Ms. NEWMAN. Okay, I am sorry. So are you saying that the em-
ployees that are not coming back, it is not due to the fact that they
do not have the ability to have their children cared for while they
are at work?
Mr. PONCE. No, ma’ am. That is correct.
Ms. NEWMAN. Okay. Thank you for that answer.
And then my last question has to do with livable wage. Do you
think that it is interesting that you have just identified that, in
fact, people are not coming back because they are getting paid
more potentially by their current subsidies. Do you think that is in-
teresting in light of the fact that they are looking at going back to
a low wage that they cannot live on or they are temporarily getting
a lift and taking advantage of that until they can go back?
Mr. PONCE. I can confidently say, Representative Newman, that
within our local market, our local district, there is a lot of individ-
uals that are taking advantage of the benefits right now, the sub-
sidies that are given to them that gives them the option to decide
not to want to be gainfully employed but much rather want to be
under the unemployment benefits plan because the minimum wage
probably does not fare out to equate to what they are getting now.
There are plenty of businesses here, local businesses that have
signs on their windows looking for, in desperateness looking for in-
dividuals, even calling back previous employee that unfortunately
were had to let go due to the fact that when the quarantine and
the city getting involved in closing small businesses, it made a
huge impact to these individuals that decided to take it. So.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. Time has expired.
Mr. PONCE. Thank you.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentlelady from California, Ms.
Kim, is recognized for 5 minutes.
You need to unmute, Ms. Kim. We cannot hear you.
We will go to Mr. Stauber and then go back to Ms. Kim.
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The gentleman.
Mr. STAUBER. One second, Madam Chair. I am trying to get my
speaker up here.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
You know, first off, thanks for the witnesses being here. And my
questions are for Mr. Ponce. First, I want to acknowledge that in
your testimony you highlighted that lending was a huge barrier to
entry. Are there other hurdles such as minimum wage increase or
new taxes that worry entrepreneurs, as they try to overcome the
effects of this pandemic?
Mr. PONCE. Thank you, Representative Stauber.
I feel strongly that the challenges are banking and lending for
us. And also in the imminent future, the tax increase will definitely
be a major catastrophe on our end to continue to succeed in our
growth and our industry. Yes.
Mr. STAUBER. And then also in your testimony you highlight
the importance of educating our communities of the assistance the
government provides for entrepreneurs through the SBA. And can
you speak more specifically about your experience starting your
business, and did you know of SBA assistance or work with the
SBA resource partners such as the SBDCs?
Mr. PONCE. Thank you for that question, Representative
Stauber. It was in my past experience and I was unaware of these
opportunities that the local governments and national governments
were offering. I was aware of the SBA initiatives and the programs
that they had to offer but I did not have the direction nor the know
how to be able to get pointed in that direction. And I speak highly
within our local market and that is where I can really specialize
my questions, or my answers, rather. But in essence, to be very di-
rect here, we lack education within our community and the involve-
ment of these organizations for our communities. And that is where
I feel strongly that once we are aware of what opportunities are out
there for our businesses and our fellow entrepreneurs in the Latino
community, I can feel certain, being that I sit on the board of the
Hispanic Chamber of Commerce here locally in St. Louis, I see this
each and every day. And we try to guide now more so now because
of our past experience and our past leadership that had to deal
with the most difficult route possible to gain a business of their
own, now as we keep moving forward there is obviously more op-
portunities out there that the government allows us to research
and know and advise to. Now it is just bringing those people from
our community to those organizations. That is our challenge.
Thank you.
Mr. STAUBER. So, Mr. Ponce, give us some advice on how we
might better educate our communities on the opportunities avail-
able to them from your experience.
Mr. PONCE. Thank you. That is a very good question. I would
say please look at us as individuals and not as a number. And that
is truly factual even in our industry, if we can just please be looked
at as individuals and our credibility and our experience and that
endeavored business that will go a long way. And not look at us
as an actual number as such as these big bank branches do and
instead of putting in check marks they are just crossing the lines
and making sure they hit all avenues.
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It has been my experience that a lot of banking institutions here
on a local level look at a deal as how can we not get it approved
versus how can we get you to the approval, you know, stamp. You
know, maybe we cannot get approved at this very moment but let’s
show you what you need to do to get approved and that is the edu-
cational component that we lack. And that is the educational com-
ponent that we push within the local organizations that I am in-
volved in such as the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of St. Louis.
Thank you.
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Ponce, what I heard you say is personalize
the assistance and get to a yes because it is easy to say no in gov-
ernment. Would that be correct?
Mr. PONCE. That is 100 percent correct, Representative
Stauber.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Ponce, for your testimony.
And Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
Now we recognize the gentlelady from Georgia, Ms. Bourdeaux.
Ms. BOURDEAUX. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And
thanks to all the witnesses here today. Hopefully, you can hear me
okay. I see my Internet connection may not be great.
I represent one of the most diverse districts in the country with
immigrants from all over the world that help drive our economy in
Gwinnett and Forsyth counties. About a quarter of my constituents
were born outside of the United States. Many of these, of course,
as you all have noted, are entrepreneurs and operate lots of won-
derful mom and pop shops all over this district. And so our chal-
lenge is to figure out how to, of course, get them through the
COVID crisis and then get them off to a strong start on the other
side of this.
So just starting at the top with a question for Mr. Kallick. You
mentioned in your testimony concerns about the disproportionate
impact of COVID-19 on immigrant communities, the importance of
correcting that imbalance using small business relationships with
big banks versus CDFIs as an example.
In your view, how can Congress ensure that our immigrant-
owned businesses, which are these really wonderful but often small
and do not have those regular banking relationships, how do we
help them recover and build back better after the pandemic?
Mr. KALLICK. You know, I wish I had a more fully blown an-
swer for you. I think there are 1,000 steps along the way and as
you consider each one I would say it would be really important to
think about how is that going to affect the immigrant businesses,
the businesses owned by people of color who have been so some-
times deliberately I think, sometimes not deliberately but so ex-
cluded from other forms of aid. So I am not sure how to, you know,
I would be glad to come back another day and come with a series
of proposals. I do not really have one ready but I think it can be
part of the thinking every step of the way.
Ms. BOURDEAUX. I have heard about the microlending pro-
grams, things like that, and we are working with our Small Busi-
ness Development Center also to try to really improve and build on
the outreach to our immigrant businesses. Recently, I had an event
with over 60 restaurants from Georgia 7 who we saw last week
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with Isabel Guzman, the Small Business Administrator. And many
of those who showed up to this event were immigrant-owned res-
taurants and they were beginning to apply for and receive assist-
ance through the Restaurant Revitalization Fund. However, we
know that there are many other businesses that have not been able
to access any assistance over the past year. And so we are now
looking forward to the launch of the Community Navigator pilot
program on April 30. And it is my hope that this program will en-
able more immigrant-owned businesses to get the information and
resources that they need to help them recover and prosper in the
years to come.
That being said, you know, we are trying to figure out, you know,
what does this Community Navigator need to do? How are we
going to target that towards our small businesses in order to help
them be successful? And one of my colleagues at George State Uni-
versity did a study and talked about how a lot of resources were
really just oriented towards providing in-language services to folks.
And I was wondering, this is a question for Ms. Jaja Chen, what
would be some of the things that would really help people in the
Taiwanese or Chinese business community? You know, what could
the Small Business Administration do to help them get to the other
side of this crisis? We want them to provide services in language.
You know, have some of that kind of research. But are there other
things they could be doing that would help a business like yours
or your colleagues and peers in the community?
Ms. CHEN. Well, I think it is huge to really focus in on building
relationships with the grassroots organizations and community or-
ganizations like mutual aid groups that are already serving immi-
grant-owned populations. And so rather than revamping, creating
brand new programs, really starting to recognize, like there are so
many nonprofits and organizations already serving the immigrant-
owned population or immigrant-owned business population. So it is
important to really have the linkages. Right? The collaboration be-
tween the organizations and part of that is having the time, having
people to be able to build those linkages, build those relationships,
and to be able to ensure that there is that cultural competency that
has held out throughout that time in the relationship because it
comes down to someone having the relationship with someone to
know, oh, I can actually qualify for programs within the SBA. I
think many Chinese and Taiwanese business owners might not
even realize that they have the ability to apply for programs like
the PPP or Restaurant Revitalization Fund.
Ms. BOURDEAUX. I will just state we have this challenge, and
I will have to wrap up, between we have people with the cultural
knowledge and people with the small business knowledge. We have
got to find a way to bring those two groups together.
But thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back the
balance of my time.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
Now we recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Kim.
You need to unmute. We cannot hear you.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. I am joining by audio.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. We can hear you now.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Sorry about the technical difficulty here.
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So I wanted to thank the witnesses that are joining us today and
thank the Chair and the Ranking Member for holding this hearing.
You know, I am an immigrant myself and also a former small
business owner so the witnesses’ testimonies really resonate with
me. And as my family and I also strive to live the American dream,
I fully understand the importance of immigrant-owned businesses
in our community and the contributions they make.
According to a study from 2019, about 3.2 million immigrants
run their own small businesses making it one in every five entre-
preneurs in this country. And immigrant-owned businesses, they
employed almost 8 million across America. And I have the honor
of representing California’s 39th District, which is one of the most
diverse districts in California and also home to many small busi-
nesses owned by immigrants. Overall, here in California over 40
percent of businesses are started by immigrant entrepreneurs.
But unfortunately, many entrepreneurs in my district have been
negatively impacted due to one of the most onerous stay-at-home
restrictions in the country imposed by Sacramento.
You know, Mr. Ponce and Mr. Chen, just like as you, you are pol-
icymakers and legislators, I, too, have taken the time to speak to
many small businesses in my district. And one common theme I
hear is that they are unable to hire qualified workers. And I am
sure based on your experience investing and owning businesses,
you also see the same problem in your business and with your com-
munities.
So I want to ask you, Mr. Ponce, do you have any recommenda-
tions that could make it easier for businesses to find and hire
workers?
Mr. PONCE. Representative Young Kim, thank you so much for
your question.
Yes. You know, we have, I would say within the Latino commu-
nity, we do have a luxury where we are really utilizing our cham-
ber, our business chamber here locally to vet out and find and mar-
ket to potential future business entrepreneurs to even help gain
employment to start and understanding perhaps the business that
an individual would like to be involved in. Here my advice to be
more direct to your question is continue to help these organizations
and these foundations that allow and assist in gaining knowledge
and education to and getting it out there I should say to the future
employers and future business owners in our minority commu-
nities. I hope I did it justice to answer your question. I apologize.
Thank you.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Well, thank you, Mr. Ponce.
In response to Mr. Williams’s question earlier, you already stated
that it would not be prudent for our government to increase taxes
as it will quell business confidence in the American economy at this
point. So as a follow up to that and as our economy looks to recover
from the pandemic, what type of policies would instill business con-
fidence and incentivize new businesses to open?
Mr. PONCE. Yes, thank you. To be more direct to your question
I completely 100 percent stand behind the fact that we cannot in-
crease access. That is a major component to our issue. It will not
allow us to grow in the manner that we need to grow.
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Furthermore, we need local government authorities and local leg-
islature to really back the business and the local economy of busi-
ness to allow us to continue to grow. But adding more, you know,
more detriment to increase of taxes or limiting an opportunity to
open our doors during the reopening of the pandemic, that all has
to be looked at and really sought out with a fine-tooth comb. Thank
you.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Sure.
In the interest of time, let me ask a quick question to Mr. Kallick
and hope you have time to respond.
In several of the relief packages Congress passed over the last
year, the Committee ensured that the smallest of the small busi-
ness and those that rely on lending institutions like community de-
velopment financial institutions or CDFIs and small and inde-
pendent lenders have access to PPP and EIDL programs. So to
what do you attribute those businesses not being able to access the
programs given the specific carveouts that were already provided?
Mr. KALLICK. I think they were starting so far behind in doing
that that there was a real problem in catching up. I think that is
the extent of my understanding of it.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentlelady’s time has expired.
Now we recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Chu, for 5
minutes.
Ms. CHU. Ms. Chen, I appreciate you sharing your experience of
discrimination and talking about the fears prevalent in the Asian
American community during this year of rising anti-Asian hate
crimes across our country. I have been active in leading the effort
to fight anti-Asian hate crimes which increased with Trump’s usage
of the terms China virus, Wuhan virus, and Kung flu.
Last month, I led a delegation to Georgia to visit the three
Asian-owned small businesses where eight people were murdered,
six of them Asian women. Two weeks ago I met with President
Biden to discuss how the administration can work with the AAPI
community to put a stop to this hatred, and then last week the
Senate took a big step toward by passing the COVID-19 Hate
Crimes Act which will come to the House in May and contains the
text of my bill, the No Hate Act.
I am so impressed that you have managed to grow your small
business so successfully when you faced not just the pandemic but
also anti-Asian discrimination. So can you talk about what you
have done to overcome these hurdles and run your business so suc-
cessfully? And what advice would you give to other AAPI small
businesses that have some fears and trepidation right now?
Ms. CHEN. Thank you, Representative Chu, for your work in
this AAPI community.
So specifically for us, we have an extensive community support.
I think Waco is a phenomenal community that really is seeking to
uplift diverse communities. And so as business owners, we have
been able to take part of organizations like the Hispanic Chamber,
African American Chamber, and they have provided such support
and even standing against the anti-Asian racism and hate crimes
throughout the country. And we have a lot of relationships that we
have been able to build with other community leaders and other
partnerships. And I think that is what has helped us to continue
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doing what we do. To recognize that we are not alone in this work
that we do even as a minority within our own community has been
huge to have that community care support.
In addition, I do want to put a plug that I, myself, and my hus-
band, have gotten therapy through this time. And so as a business
owner, being able to have access to therapy services was huge to
be able to continue working through our own trauma responses in
the midst of all that is going on nationally.
And so advice to business owners, I would say recognizing that
there are a lot of leaders and individuals who want to support your
work and so it is more of trying to find those allies and to be able
to find the business partnerships and the collaborations that are
going to continue pushing you forward in your work.
Ms. CHU. Thank you so much.
Mr. Kallick, we know that family ties strengthen immigrant com-
munities which in turn help us bolster the economy. Recently-ar-
rived immigrants represent 30 percent of new entrepreneurs, de-
spite the fact that they make up only 13 percent of the population.
So immigrants are building the small businesses here in the U.S.
which helps us all. And family-based immigrants make such huge
contributions to the U.S. economy. In fact, immigrant families help
businesses survive sometimes by pooling money or by providing
childcare. They are essential to it.
And that is why family-based immigrants have added $2 trillion
to the U.S. GDP in 2016. And that is why I introduced the Reunit-
ing Families Act, which addresses the family immigration visa
backlog and unifies immigrant families. And I am proud that this
is part of the proposed U.S. Citizenship Act which will reform our
immigration system in such a comprehensive way but also allow
more immigrants and families to build their businesses in our com-
munities.
So what does your research show about the impact of family-
based immigration in communities and small businesses? Do you
think a policy like the Reuniting Families Act, which is in the U.S.
Citizenship Act, could that help bolster economic development in
immigrant communities?
Mr. KALLICK. I do. I think we do very well in the United States
with the immigration that we get. And as you know, the primary
source of immigration is through family unification. So I think it
is quite striking how you can think about ways of shifting what im-
migrants might be coming here, but the reality is that immigrants
who have been coming to the United States make up for all of the
statistics you have been hearing so far and that is primarily fam-
ily-based immigration. Many of the entrepreneurs that you hear
about, you know, the sort of superstar entrepreneurs who start the
unicorn, the companies that become gigantic companies, they did
not come here as special immigrant visas in order to be entre-
preneurs. They came here as immigrants and then became entre-
preneurs.
Ms. CHU. Thank you. And I yield back.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
Now we recognize the gentlelady, Ms. Van Duyne from Texas for
5 minutes.
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Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chairman
Velázquez and Ranking Member Luetkemeyer. I appreciate the
hearings today.
Immigrants are some of America’s most entrepreneurial citizens,
and everyone benefits from the jobs their businesses create and the
services that they provide. While the Biden administration may
speak positively about small business owners and American entre-
preneurship, their actions continue to inflict unnecessary pain on
small business owners around the country. Continued encourage-
ment for COVID restrictions, tax increases, and luxurious unem-
ployment benefits all hamper small businesses’ ability to be able to
do even the most essential things.
I have heard from so many small businesses that have reached
out to me and my office to tell me that they are having trouble hir-
ing staff because they have to compete with the U.S. Government’s
seemly never-ending unemployment benefits. And as Young Kim
had mentioned earlier——
Ms. CHU. Well, Jaja Chen seemed to——
Ms. VAN DUYNE. We are hearing this over and over again. You
know, when I am back in the district I have gone out to res-
taurants, and these are either high-end, these are small immi-
grant-owned diners, and they are all telling me the same thing.
They cannot hire people because they are competing with the U.S.
Government handing out more money than these people are getting
paid on the job.
By the way, these are not only folks who are getting paid more
than a minimum wage but people who are getting $20, more than
that per hour, but they are having a hard time hiring people.
I talked to one business owner just last week who said he has
got 300 openings and cannot get people to apply. This is not really
helping our economy to open up at all, and I am sure that small
business owners, including those here with us today, do not want
government handouts. They want the government to get out of
their way so they can provide consumers with their products, their
services, and expertise.
The reason our immigrant small businesses have such great suc-
cess is not because of the government but rather because they have
that can-do mentality that this country was built on. The Federal
Government’s role is not to pick winners or losers but to allow the
greatest opportunity for our citizens to flourish no matter how
many generations a family has been here.
I appreciate all the stories that we have heard today but I am
also concerned about the small businesses not just in my district
but across the country and what they are seeing.
And Mr. Ponce—am I saying that? Is it Mr. Ponce or Mr. Ponce?
I would love to get your——
Mr. PONCE. Ponce.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. I would love to get your feedback on have you
seen any kind of negative or positive experience from the extending
of these luxurious unemployment benefits?
Mr. PONCE. Representative Van Duyne, thank you so much for
your question. And to better answer it, yes. Here in our local com-
munity and our local market you do find yourself noticing, as I no-
tice as a business owner, that the government is way too much in-
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volved in our small business practices and they do not allow us to,
you know, really, really grasp and grow as an entrepreneur. When
it comes to the unemployment versus the minimum wage, the un-
employment right now and the subsidies that people are I would
say quite frankly taking advantage of because the government al-
lows it, you know, yes, there is a big issue. We have local res-
taurants and colleagues that own them that are good friends of
mine that are having issues trying to reinstate employment with
the current people that were employed before but unfortunately,
because of the fact that unemployment is paying better if you will,
it makes it difficult for them to reattract the previous employee to
come back to work. It really does bring a challenge here I would
say here in our market to really help really get back and restabilize
as a business owner and as a company when you are actually hav-
ing to battle the government and their subsidies and their opportu-
nities to basically make it easier for them not to gain gainful em-
ployment. Thank you.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. I appreciate that.
You know, you have owned a small business now for the last 20
years having navigated the lending process. What do you wish you
knew then that you know now?
Mr. PONCE. Well, that is a very good question. I think honestly
if I had to start this all over again the only change that I would
make is I would definitely really educate myself on the whole bank-
ing policies and how banking works because I probably would have
took a step back and limit my pace of how I wanted to grow. I
would slow everything back down because I took a lot of risk grow-
ing and building my business, Representative Van Duyne. And if
I would have known what I know now I probably would not have
taken as much of the risk because I really thought that by building
this on my own and growing this business on my own and using
my own financial means it was going to give me the credibility to
really go to these big banks and these big institutions and begin
to raise capital to continue to grow our business. But unfortu-
nately, that was not the case.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman——
Mr. PONCE. Thank you.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much. I yield back.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentlelady’s time has expired.
Now we recognize the gentleman, Mr. Evans from Pennsylvania,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member.
Thank you for your leadership, Madam Chair, on this very impor-
tant subject. If anything is going to build back it is what we are
talking about today.
I would like to start with Mr. Daniel Fitzgerald. What can Con-
gress do more to make sure that our Small Business Development
Centers are fully prepared to help immigrants from all back-
grounds?
Mr. FITZGERALD. I think it is, continue to support the pro-
grams. What our experience was when were able to receive some
increased funding from the state of California was we were able to
expand more into the communities. That is when we were able to
add in International Rescue Committee and the Asian Business As-
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sociation. That coincided with the increase in funding that we re-
ceived at the same time from Congress as it has increased for small
business development centers. The reality is that the demand con-
tinues to outstrip the resource, but as we are able to get more re-
sources, we are able to hire more advisors that are part of the com-
munity that are linguistically and culturally correct. And that is
really what supports our efforts to be able to do it. We invest back
into the community, providing that type of individual work that
has been talked about with the business owner.
Mr. EVANS. What would you say are the most in-demand serv-
ices by immigrants that seek help at your business center?
Mr. FITZGERALD. Really what it is navigating the U.S. system.
That is either the lending and banking system, credit system, but
also the layers of government, understanding what is a county,
what is a city, and what are some of those differences. Or really
how the credit market works and how credit scoring works. And so
a lot of that is around how those particular systems work because
it literally is not something they are used to. And so we work with
them and that is why we also have what we call the culturally cor-
rect approach to it where if someone is from Mexico, if someone is
from Iraq, have advisors that are familiar or even are from those
countries to be able to create some information and be able to help
them understand how the U.S. systems works similarly to how it
worked from their country of origin and really be able to support
them. Really help them understand what they need to do. For ex-
ample, I need to go to the county to get a health permit. Or what
it is I need to do to make sure that, yes, I have a business banking
account. How is that different from my personal banking account?
And understanding that even small credit loans are able to help
build credit and establish credit which can then help them in the
future to be able to grow their business with even larger loans.
Mr. EVANS. I yield back my balance, Madam Chair. And thank
you for the opportunity. Thank you, sir.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Thank you.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
Now we recognize the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald.
Mr. FITZGERALD of Wisconsin. I am going to yield back,
Madam Chair. I do not have anything very specific right now.
Thank you very much.
Chairwoman VELÁZQUEZ. That concludes our hearing today.
I want to take this opportunity to thank all of our witnesses for
their testimony. Today you showcased the incredible power of im-
migrant-owned businesses and how vital they are to our recovery.
When it comes to entrepreneurship, immigrants are leading the
way. As business startup rates have dropped overall, immigrants
have filled the gap creating jobs and helping our economy keep
pace. COVID has devastated these same businesses. If we genu-
inely want to build back better, we must ensure they have the sup-
port need to recover. I hope that today’s hearing drove home the
importance of these businesses to our economy and will yield ac-
tions to help build them up. I look forward to collaborating with my
colleagues on both sides of the aisle as we work to harness the
power of these businesses and drive an equitable recovery.
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I would ask unanimous consent that Members have 5 legislative
days to submit statements and supporting materials for the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
If there is no further business to come before the Committee, we
are adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 2:04 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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File and source
- File
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- www.govinfo.gov