Growing the Small Business Supplier Base in Government Contracting (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, October 13, 2021)

Summary

Transcript of the House Small Business Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure hearing Growing the Small Business Supplier Base in Government Contracting, on October 13, 2021, published as Small Business Committee Document Number 117–036. Representatives Kweisi Mfume and Maria Salazar gave opening statements. Witnesses were Alba Alemán of Citizant, Inc. for the U.S. Women's Chamber of Commerce, Lynn Ann Casey of Arc Aspicio, Victor Holt of V-Tech Solutions, Inc. for the HUBZone Council, and Sophia Tong of T and T Consulting Services Inc. for the Montgomery County Chamber of Commerce. The appendix carries questions from Hon. Fitzgerald and Hon. Mfume with responses from Tong, and material from the National Veteran Small Business Coalition.

Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used

Cite this document

“Growing the Small Business Supplier Base in Government Contracting (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, October 13, 2021).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/growing-the-small-business-supplier-base-in-government-contracting-hou-c9f1740a93/, SHA-256 d7d0e00c8034d9bc395790a03f4079e3ff619ce17c2c5cdc755c076759d5fba5.

Full text

GROWING THE SMALL BUSINESS SUPPLIER BASE
IN GOVERNMENT CONTRACTING

HEARING
BEFORE THE

SUBMITTEE ON CONTRACTING AND
INFRASTRUCTURE
OF THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION

HEARING HELD
OCTOBER 13, 2021

Small Business Committee Document Number 117–036
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov

U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
45–780 WASHINGTON : 2022

SBD026 with DISTILLER
Congress.#13
VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 5011 Sfmt 5011 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
TROY CARTER, Louisiana
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director

(II)

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Kweisi Mfume ................................................................................................. 1
Hon. Maria Salazar ................................................................................................. 3

WITNESSES
Ms. Alba Alemán, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Citizant, Inc., Chan-
tilly, VA, testifying on behalf of the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce ... 5
Ms. Lynn Ann Casey, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arc Aspicio,
Washington, DC ................................................................................................... 7
Mr. Victor Holt, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, V-Tech Solutions, Inc.,
Silver Spring, MD, testifying on behalf of the HUBZone Council ................... 8
Ms. Sophia Tong, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, T and T Consulting
Services Inc., Falls Church, VA, testifying on behalf of the Montgomery
County Chamber of Commerce ........................................................................... 10

APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Ms. Alba Alemán, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Citizant, Inc.,
Chantilly, VA, testifying on behalf of the U.S. Women’s Chamber of
Commerce ...................................................................................................... 26
Ms. Lynn Ann Casey, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, Arc Aspicio,
Washington, DC ............................................................................................ 32
Mr. Victor Holt, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, V-Tech Solutions,
Inc., Silver Spring, MD, testifying on behalf of the HUBZone Council .... 36
Ms. Sophia Tong, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, T and T Con-
sulting Services Inc., Falls Church, VA, testifying on behalf of the
Montgomery County Chamber of Commerce .............................................. 43
Questions and Answers for the Record:
Questions from Hon. Fitzgerald and Responses from Ms. Tong ................... 51
Question from Hon. Mfume and Response from Ms. Tong ........................... 55
Additional Material for the Record:
National Veteran Small Business Coalition ................................................... 56

(III)

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 0486 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 0486 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
GROWING THE SMALL BUSINESS SUPPLIER
BASE IN GOVERNMENT CONTRACTING

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2021

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONTRACTING AND INFRASTRUCTURE,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 12:04 p.m., via Zoom,
Hon. Kweisi Mfume [chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Mfume, Newman, Andy Kim,
Hagedorn, Stauber, Meuser, Salazar, and Fitzgerald.
Chairman MFUME. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I want
to call the Subcommittee to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
any time today.
I would like to begin by noting some important requirements. Let
me begin by saying that the standing House Committee rules will
be in practice today and will apply during these remote pro-
ceedings. All Members are reminded that they are expected to ad-
here to these standing rules, including decorum when they are, in
fact, participating in any remote event.
With that said, the technology that we are utilizing today re-
quires us to make some small modifications to ensure that Mem-
bers can fully participate in these hearings. House regulations re-
quire Members to be visible through a video connection throughout
the proceedings, so please keep your cameras on. If you have to
participate in another proceeding, please exit and then log back in
later.
In the event that a Member encounters technical issues that pre-
vent them from being recognized for their questioning, I will then
move to the next available Member of the same party and will rec-
ognize that Member at the next appropriate time slot provided that
is that they have returned to the proceedings.
Should a Member be interrupted by technical issues, I will recog-
nize that Member at the next appropriate spot for the remainder
of their time once those issues have, in fact, been resolved. In the
event that a witness loses connectivity during testimony or ques-
tioning, I will preserve their time as staff attempts to address
whatever technical issue may be at hand. I may need to recess the
proceedings to provide time for witnesses to reconnect. And finally,
please remember to remain muted until you are recognized to be
able to minimize background noise.
In accordance with staff rules, staff has been advised to mute
participants only in the event that there is inadvertent background
(1)

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
2

noise. Should a Member be recognized, they obviously then must
unmute themselves to seek recognition again at the appropriate
time.
I want to thank all of you for participating in this meeting, this
hearing, and to say that you that I am hoping that we make a
great deal of progress as we get through the day and all that we
have to do.
The United States Government is the largest purchaser of goods
and services in the world. In fiscal 2020 alone, federal agencies ob-
ligated more than $650 billion in federal contracts. They did that
through their buying power because the federal government is
uniquely positioned to incentivize the economy and strengthen the
industrial base. Thus, it really is vital that small businesses then
have ample opportunity to compete in this space.
When small firms have the ability to compete and then win fed-
eral contracts, American entrepreneurs and the federal government
all benefit. Unfortunately, the federal small business supplier base
has shrunk a staggering 40 percent over the last decade. This de-
cline means less opportunity then for small businesses to support
livelihoods and to support the communities that they, in fact, serve.
Now, while this decrease cannot be attributed to any one factor,
it is safe I think to say that Category Management has been a driv-
ing force behind the decline of the number of small firms serving
as federal prime contractors.
Category Management, or CM as it is known, is a government-
wide procurement initiative that involves buying common goods
and services as a single enterprise. The intended goal as we know
of the initiative is to eliminate redundancies, increase efficiencies,
and deliver more savings by leveraging the federal government’s
buying power.
Now, these are all worthy goals, but the policy has resulted in
pushing small businesses in many instances out of the federal pro-
curement space. Category Management discourages the use of indi-
vidual contracts and consolidates requirements into large con-
tracting vehicles, leading to less competition and then ultimately
fewer contracting opportunities.
In 2020, GAO issued a report showing that while dollars and
contract actions have grown for small businesses within the CM
initiative, the overall number of small businesses and vendors re-
ceiving awards had, in fact, declined.
So to put it mildly, I think it is fair to say that a select number
of small businesses were able to navigate and benefit this complex
system, while many others were pushed out altogether.
In fiscal year 2016, 92,000-plus small businesses provided com-
mon products compared to just 79,114 of those same businesses in
3 years, a drop of 17 percent in that 36 month period. If this trend
persists, it will have a severe consequence, both for the federal gov-
ernment and for the small business base. Fewer small businesses
will lead to less innovation, higher costs, and then ultimately a
weaker supply chain.
So I think it is not a stretch for me to say that all Members of
this Committee believe in bringing in more efficiency and less re-
dundancy to our procurement system. Yet, we cannot advance

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
3

these goals at the expense of small businesses, which are still, and
will always be, the backbone of our economy.
That is why we must ensure that the implementation of this ini-
tiative does not run counter to the protections afforded to small
businesses under the Small Business Act. And so I look forward to
the hearing. I look forward to our panel today, to be able to talk
about the challenges that Category Management continues to pose
for small businesses and what, in fact, this Subcommittee and what
Congress can do.
With that, I would like to yield to the Ranking Minority Member,
Ms. Salazar of Florida for her opening statement.
Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Yes, thank you, Chairman, for being here with us
and for giving me the opportunity to talk to the rest of the Sub-
committee. I appreciate you holding this hearing to support greater
small business participation in federal government contracting.
As I explained to you, I wanted to do it in person. It is a lot more
warmer and you can definitely share more thoughts but I under-
stand that now is the time to do as we are doing. Hopefully, next
time we will be able to do it in person in Washington.
So small businesses are critical to our nation’s security, innova-
tion, and the economy. And because of this, the federal government
needs a strong small business supplier base. We don’t have a
strong the small business supplier base, and it is the federal gov-
ernment’s fault.
In the last decade, the number of small contractors shrank by
nearly 40 percent. Let me say it again. We have lost over one-third
of our small contractors in less than 10 years. If that does not
shock us, let me tell you more. In the last 15 years, the number
of new entrants to the federal marketplace declined by nearly 80
percent. Clearly, the federal procurement environment has become
so hostile to new small businesses that they just do not even try.
We need to act now to stop this axis and we at the federal level
need to figure out what is happening. For instance, we need to re-
evaluate the government’s use of what you call contract bundling.
That happens when several small contractors are combined into
one unnecessarily large contract.
Another problem is what we call Category Management. That is
when contractors are grouped together in categories, but this leads
to picking winners and losers and that is not our job at the federal
level. That is the marketplace job.
To be fair, Category Management has worked, and as of recent,
small business contracts can now be classified as a Tier 1 contract,
an upgrade from before.
Category Management can also be useful to track federal pur-
chasing habits, identify efficiencies, and keep contracting costs
down.
With that said, we cannot be naive when it es to how this will
impact our small business suppliers. I want to give you an exam-
ple. The government is increasing spending towards Best-in-Class
(BIC) contracts, which according to the government are the pre-
ferred and recommended contracting method. But these contracting
methods at this hour are only benefitting a few contractors from
above the rest, stifling competition, and reducing opportunities. In

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
4

other words, the current category’s management efforts appear to
be benefitting the few to the detriment of many. And the end result
is the federal government, while it is desperately looking to save
a few pennies, is destroying the small business supplier space.
Let me share another example. The Office of Management and
Budget, the OMB, eliminated one whole category of contracts called
the Tier 0 contracts. They celebrated this as a major success. They
said that it would only impact 5 percent of small businesses. But
let me tell you something. There was another fact check conducted
by the Government Accountability Office that it said that that new
bracket eliminated thousands of opportunities for small businesses
that had been eliminated by the Category Management. In other
words, it does not work.
I promised my constituents in District 27 that one of my goals
from this office, the Congressional Office, was to make thousands
and thousands of them, thousands of small business owners ven-
dors of the federal government and it has not happened.
So let me conclude with this thought. The decline of small busi-
ness federal contractors to inflate directly to healthy competition
and innovation. This comes on the heels of another staff job report
in September, last month. The United States economy added only
200,000 new jobs compared to the 500,000 that were affected. So
the federal government must do a lot more to provide opportunities
for the small businesses in this country.
I thank you. I would like to thank the witnesses for their expert
testimony today, and I yield back.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Ms. Salazar. The
gentlewoman yields back.
I would like to take a moment now to explain how this hearing
will, in fact, proceed. Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide
a statement and each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for
questions. Please ensure as I mentioned earlier that your micro-
phone is on when you begin speaking and that you return to mute
when you finish.
With that said, I would like to introduce the order of our wit-
nesses.
Our first witness is Ms. Alba Alemán. And I hope I am pro-
nouncing that correctly, the founder and CEO of Citizant, Inc., lo-
cated in Chantilly, Virginia. Citizant is a certified, woman-owned
business and a former 8(a) firm. The company specializes in cre-
ating solutions to complex government IT challenges, including ap-
plication development, testing, automatization, enterprise, data
management, and quality process improvement. Ms. Alemán has
led Citizant through 22 years of successful service delivery on mis-
sion critical government programs. Welcome, Ms. Alemán.
Our next witness will be Lynn Ann Casey, the founder and CEO
of Arc Aspicio, a certified woman-owned small business. Arc Aspicio
is a consulting absolutions company that provides and solves prob-
lems I should say by applying integrated capabilities in strategy,
design, data, capital, behavioral science, and in technology. Ms.
Casey founded Arc Aspicio in 2004 and has a proud career of driv-
ing innovation for government agencies. Welcome, Ms. Casey.
Our third witness today will be Mr. Victor Holt, founder and
CEO of V-Tech Solutions, Inc. V-tech is a HUBZone 1 certified

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
5

former 8(a) veteran-owned small business that offers technology,
information, and a wide range of professional services. Mr. Holt
founded V-Tech in 2000 after serving in the United States Air
Force and working in the private sector for Lockheed Martin, Nor-
throp Grumman, and Hewlett Packard. We appreciate your time
and expertise, Mr. Holt. Welcome to you as well.
I will now yield to the Ranking Member to introduce our final
witness. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Our final witness is Sophia Tong. She is the founder and chief
executive officer of T&T Consulting Services, Inc., a woman-owned
small business. Ms. Tong is also a graduate of the Small Business
Administration’s 8(a) program. Under her leadership, T&T has
grown from a small two-person business in 2004 to over 100 em-
ployees at this time. Under Ms. Tong’s direction, T&T has achieved
numerous, difficult to obtain, certifications in both a diverse array
of federal government and commercial clients. Ms. Tong holds over
15 years of experience in software engineering and project man-
ager. She has earned a Master of Science in Computer Science from
the University of Maryland and her Bachelor of Science in Com-
puter Science and Information Engineering from the National
Chiao Tung University in Taiwan. She is a certified project man-
ager professional and also information technology infrastructure li-
brary certificate. Due to her hard work and exemplary leadership
skills, Ms. Tong has received many accolades, including the 2008
American Business Awards Executive of the Year Award, the
Washington Business Journal 2019 Minority Business Leader
Award, and the 2019 Small Business Administration’s Small
Businessperson of the Year in Northern Virginia. Ms. Tong, I look
forward to hearing your testimony and I yield back. Welcome.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you, Ms. Salazar.
Ms. Alemán, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. Please pro-
ceed.
STATEMENTS OF ALBA ALEMÁN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
AND FOUNDER, CITIZANT, INC.; LYNN ANN CASEY, CHIEF EX-
ECUTIVE OFFICER AND FOUNDER, ARC ASPICIO; VICTOR
HOLT, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER AND FOUNDER, V-TECH
SOLUTIONS, INC.; SOPHIA TONG, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFI-
CER AND FOUNDER, T AND T CONSULTING SERVICES, INC.

STATEMENT OF ALBA ALEMÁN
Ms. ALEMÁN. Good morning, Chairman Mfume, Ranking Mem-
ber Salazar, and Members of the House Small Business Committee,
Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure. Thank you for
the opportunity to speak with you today about the topic of Category
Management.
My name is Alba Alemán, and I am the founder and CEO of
Citizant, Inc., a small government services firm based in Chantilly,
Virginia. We employ nearly 200 professionals who support federal
agencies in 27 states. I am an active Member of the Women’s
Chamber of Commerce and serve on their Category Management
Task Force. Citizant has been in business since 1999 and we have
weathered many storms—Y2K, 9-11, Katrina, numerous govern-

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
6

ment shutdowns, continuing resolutions, administration and policy
changes, and the Budget Control Act of 2011. Through all of these
national emergencies and disruptions, we have diligently continued
to serve important missions at the IRS, Department of Defense,
Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Justice,
just to name a few.
The purpose of my testimony today is to share my first-hand in-
sights about the detrimental impact that Category Management is
having on the small business supplier base. Category Management
has disproportionally stripped small, minority, and woman-owned
businesses from access to federal contracts. It is responsible for the
erosion of 30 percent of my own business in the last 2 years. It has
widened the gap between small and large contractors to the det-
riment of our economy and has reduced the availability of innova-
tive cost-effective solutions for our government.
Recent executive orders introduced a concept called ‘‘Tiered
Spending’’ under which federal procurement departments are
forced to use a small handful of government-wide contract vehicles,
Best-in-Class contract vehicles. These BICs, like Alliant 2, VETS 2,
and OASIS, account for hundreds of billions of dollars of spend
among very small groups of prequalified contractors. And of these
vehicles, only VETS 2 and OASIS provide a swimlane for a handful
of small, minority, and women-owned businesses.
Category Management and Tiered Spending rules create signifi-
cant problems for small businesses. Whereas large contractors have
the experience and credentials to qualify for nearly every single
BIC, small businesses are hard-pressed to qualify for even one.
Competing for these BIC contracts requires a small business to
have already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on certifi-
cations, have tens of millions of dollars in prior contracts, and meet
dozens of other requirements that only the largest businesses
would ever have.
Here is a sobering statistic. Only .0001 percent of small busi-
nesses—that is, 1 in 100,000—have access to 100 percent of the
BIC spending. And these ‘‘small businesses’’ are not small by most
industry standards. They sometimes have $100 million in revenue,
have been around for decades, and have thousands of employees.
Of the tens of thousands of small businesses who might want to
pursue a BIC contract, only a few dozen will ever receive an award.
The small businesses that do not earn a seat at the table in a BIC
contract are effectively barred from competing during the 10-year
life of that contract.
At the end of the day, the steering of government spending to
large businesses results in a loss of millions of small business jobs.
Large businesses are offshoring many of the jobs won on govern-
ment contracts including BICs. With a concentration of contracting
in the hands of fewer, larger businesses, the government loses the
benefit of competition to lower prices. Furthermore, when large
businesses subcontract to small companies, they mark up our serv-
ices by 25 to 40 percent without additional value to the govern-
ment.
Innovation is stifled. And let’s face it, most of the innovation in
today’s economy comes from small businesses and entrepreneurs.
And the hollowing out of small businesses in our industrial sup-

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
7

plier base creates National Security risks in countless industry sec-
tors.
As an immigrant, I am not deterred by hard work or challenging
times. I view it as my honor and responsibility to shoulder and pro-
tect the future of a vibrant, small business ecosystem in the U.S.
And I am encouraged by the protections for small businesses in-
cluded in the National Defense Authorization Act, including exemp-
tions from Category Management for small business in all socio
economic categories. Provisions like these are absolutely essential
to protecting the viability of America’s small business contractors
who have already been pressed to their limits.
I am immensely grateful for the opportunity to address this Sub-
committee and for the work that you do to preserve diversity and
inclusion in our federal government supplier base.
I will gladly answer any questions. Thank you so very much.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very, very much, Ms. Alemán.
We appreciate your testimony.
Ms. Casey, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF LYNN ANN CASEY
Ms. CASEY. Chairman Mfume, Ranking Member Salazar, and
Members of the Committee. Thank you for the invitation.
My name is Lynn Ann Casey. I am the founder and CEO of Arc
Aspicio, a woman-owned small business that has provided innova-
tive professional services to the federal government since 2008.
I am also a Member of the Board of Directors of the Professional
Services Council and work often with other small businesses who
serve the federal government and this topic is of particular impor-
tance to me.
Category Management is an urgent issue for my company and
other small businesses since it is contributing to the trend of de-
creasing the small business supplier base and running counter to
the purpose of the Small Business Act.
In my testimony, I plan to offer some ideas and potential solu-
tions to help grow the supplier base. All of my remarks refer to
professional services rather than any items or products.
While Category Management does help increase procurement ef-
ficiencies, our company has seen it reduce the number of small
businesses and the number of opportunities that are available for
companies like mine to compete on. This in turn reduces innovation
that small businesses bring.
In terms of the challenges of Category Management, we have
been competing as a subcontractor and a prime contractor with the
federal government for 13 years who are very experienced. We have
been on several Category Management Best-in-Class vehicles, and
despite our extensive experience and exceptional performance, we
have only won one of those. And that is after spending hundreds
of thousands of dollars.
We are also a mentor to another small business in a Small Busi-
ness Administration Mentor Protégé program under an 8(a) pro-
gram. So both Arc Aspicio and our protégé, which are very different
in the stages of maturity in our company, have seen a significant
reduction in the number and size, as well as the scope of opportuni-
ties for us available to compete and pursue competitively. We love

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
8

hard work and we love to compete. We just want the opportunity
to compete.
Many new and recompete contract opportunities for Arc Aspicio
have moved to Best-in-Class contract vehicles where we were not
a prime contractor and therefore, could not pursue the work.
Agencies have raised significant concerns about not being able to
allow their incumbent small businesses to bid for their recompetes
competitively. Allowing small businesses to recompete on follow-on
contracts after successfully delivering to the government should be
a regular practice in small businesses. And yet, Category Manage-
ment does not allow this competition and it prohibits innovation,
competition, and it does not allow for continuous improvement.
In addition to fewer opportunities to pursue, it is very difficult
for small businesses to compete and win Tier 3 BIC contracts. You
have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars’ worth of certifi-
cations and these BIC contracts often disproportionately favor
small businesses who have extensive experience and certifications
with the Department of Defense.
And yet, many other departments outside of DoD use these vehi-
cles but they cannot get access to their current small business con-
tractors. As a result, there are fewer small businesses, there is less
competition, and while the revenue to small businesses may be in-
creasing, it is to a much smaller base of small businesses. So ulti-
mately, very small businesses are getting acquired or are just drop-
ping out of the market and we are dramatically reducing the small
business supplier base.
There are four potential ideas that I suggest and provide addi-
tional information in my written testimony. I would encourage the
Committee to explore looking at Category Management for Spend
Under Management (SUM) and exempting small business goals
from the Spend Under Management to expand the opportunities for
set-aside contracts.
Legislation to increase simplified acquisition thresholds from
$250,000 to $1 million or more is another idea. Considering legisla-
tion or policy to allow the GSA Multiple Award Schedules for pro-
fessional services contracts to be a BIC is another solution.
Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify today and I
welcome further questions on my testimony. Thank you to the
Committee.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Ms. Casey. We appre-
ciate your testimony.
Mr. Holt, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF VICTOR HOLT
Mr. HOLT. Thank you, Chair Mfume, Ranking Member Salazar,
and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the invitation to
testify today.
I am Victor P. Holt, president and CEO of V-Tech Solutions, Inc.
As a minority veteran-owned HUBZone firm, we provide health,
technology, and professional services. We most recently celebrated
our 21st anniversary.
Today, I testify as the Vice Chair of the HUBZone Contractors
National Council. The Council is a nonprofit trade association that
provides information and support for companies and individuals in-

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
9

terested in the HUBZone program. The HUBZone program pro-
vides economic assistance to historically underutilized business
zones by awarding federal contracts to HUBZone companies that
operate and employ workers who live in designated HUBZone
tracts. We would like to thank the Committee for its commitment
and support of small government contracting businesses. We also
thank you for highlighting the topic of Category Management.
This is a topic that the Council continues to be concerned about.
Council Chair, Shirley Bailey testified in 2018 before the Com-
mittee on this topic. Today, we are here again facing the same
bleak outlook as 2018. The cause for concern remains simple—
small business access to government contracts.
Small businesses are the engine that fuels the American econ-
omy. We bring growth, innovation, and employment opportunities.
We embody the promise, hope, and future of our country. However,
substantial challenges and barriers still exist. The Council con-
tinues to believe that Best-in-Class contracts create enormous bar-
riers for small businesses. As the government moves away from di-
rect award contracts, business opportunities decrease for the small
business community. The large buying contracts used in Category
Management require substantial resources to bid and win. These
contract requirements keep small businesses from competing. This
includes stringent past performance or other requirements that are
impossible for a small business to beat.
Subcontracting comes with its own challenges as well. This in-
cludes small margins and often alignment with a large or mid-size
prime based solely on cost. BIC vehicles also have a crippling effect
on small business competitive opportunities. Approximately 25,000
small businesses provide IT services to the government, but for the
OASIS Small Business Pool 1, only 30 slots are available. Addition-
ally, some Best-in-Class vehicles do not have on ramps. This re-
stricts the opportunities for future on ramping for small businesses.
Hence, shutting us out from high dollar contract opportunities.
According to Bloomberg Government, IT spending represented
more than half of the Best-in-Class market in FY20 with the Best-
in-Class spending goal of FY21 at approximately $48.4 billion. With
a large portion of IT spending going through these Best-in-Class
contracts, winning a recompete or direct award may be even more
challenging than before.
Category Management, when applied to broad acquisitions, does
not consider that innovation provides incredible value. Best-in-
Class should not resemble lowest price technically acceptable. We
hope the government does not mistake lowest cost for best value.
As to popularity of utilizing Best-in-Class contracts increases,
HUBZones and other small businesses have pure opportunities to
compete. In fact, the government has never met its goal to obligate
3 percent of the eligible prime contract dollars to the HUBZone
community. This represents 23 years of missed opportunities and
unawarded dollars to HUBZone companies that can train, employ,
and mentor constituents within your HUBZone tracts.
No one would disagree with the goals of efficient government by
and saving taxpayer money. However, we believe Category Man-
agement comes at a cost. It can restrict the ability of small busi-
nesses to grow through federal contracts. The Council urges the

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
10

Committee to exercise its authority to ensure the government’s pro-
curement policies, specifically Category Management, utilize small
businesses.
I thank you for the opportunity to speak today and look forward
to engaging in continued dialogue.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Mr. Holt. We appre-
ciate your testimony. We will be back to you, obviously.
Ms. Tong, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. Please proceed.
STATEMENT OF SOPHIA TONG
Ms. TONG. Chairman Mfume, Ranking Member Salazar, and
Members of the Subcommittee, I thank you for the opportunity to
testify before you today. My name is Sophia Tong. I am founder
and CEO of T and T Consulting Services, Inc. (T&T). We are lo-
cated in Falls Church, Virginia. T&T is a woman-owned small busi-
ness. We specialize in providing strategic IT solutions to the federal
government that allow them to successfully achieve their mission
objectives on time and within budget.
I am testifying today on behalf of the Montgomery County Cham-
ber of Commerce (MCCC) in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Today’s topic is very important for the small business contracting
community. The impact of Category Management is increasingly
evident in my industry and affecting our company. Agencies are
bundling contracts that were previously performed successfully by
small businesses, rolling them into large contracts and awarding
them to large businesses. The outcome of this action is killing
small suppliers like ours. There are countless examples of this in
the IT field.
For example, in August of this year, the Defense Health Agency
(DHA) awarded a large business a single award 10-year, $2 billion
blanket purchase agreement (BPA) to support the Military Health
System’s Enterprise IT Services Integrator requirement. By taking
this work and bundling it into a massive single award contract, a
monopoly is created, allowing the large business to control (and
raise) prices on the worked performed for the government. Large
businesses always claim there is no harm to the small business
supplier base as contract consolidation happens, because they will
hire the small businesses as subcontractors.
However, the fact is large firms often take substantial cuts.
Small businesses are usually given unrealistically low rates and it
makes it difficult to meet requirements, recruit, and retain re-
sources—the margins are too thin. Additionally, small business lost
the close relationship we had with the government client when we
were prime and now we have become subcontractors.
Another example, large businesses also use high rates they re-
ceive from the government to steal the workforce from small busi-
nesses. There are numerous instances where Members of my team
have been hired by large business that were awarded my previous
contract, all due to the consolidation efforts. Unfortunately, my ex-
perience is that government clients are unable to help in resolving
those disputes.
And the third one, primes have also bullied small businesses,
leveraging their existing network and relationships with govern-
ment clients to try to steal contracts from successfully performing

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
11

smalls. For example, we received a sole source contract to create
a minimum viable product (MVP) for an organization under DHA.
The contract is still ongoing, and the customers are very satisfied
with our performance. But, because the contract is very important
and could potentially become a very large contract, we were con-
tacted by many large businesses wanting to be a part of this effort.
One of them is Google. When Google found out we were not able
to bring them on the team, Google wrote a ‘‘letter of concern’’ to
DHA complaining that DHA awarded this contract to a small busi-
ness. This type of behavior is common and increasingly concerning.
Although we have grown to a larger small business, newer and
smaller entrants are particularly hard-hit with Category Manage-
ment. Even for mature, well-established small businesses with a di-
verse portfolio, like us, contract bundling and consolidation is hurt-
ing these businesses. The cost of getting on a Best-in-Class contract
is substantial and requires significant investments just to get a
slot. Category Management continues to shift an increasing num-
ber of dollars to large contract vehicles. Additionally, Category
Management has accelerated a decline in diversity of vendors with
large dollar amounts held only by a few companies.
The Chamber applauds inclusion of provision in the FY2022
NDAA by the Committee to combat the effects of Category Manage-
ment and any future bundling strategies. MCCC also understands
additional factors are contributing to the supplier base decline, in
addition to Category Management: increasing transparency and ac-
countability in subcontracting, as well as increasing R&D invest-
ment to maintaining and growing the small business supplier base.
In conclusion, small businesses are asking for equity, a fair
chance to compete for contracts. We are asking for actions from
this Committee to change the trajectory of contract consolidation
which in our view creates opportunities for large businesses but re-
sults in fewer opportunities for a small business like us. We need
your help and appreciate the opportunity to bring these issues be-
fore you today. Thank you.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Ms. Tong.
We are going to begin our questioning in just a minute. I want
to again thank all of the witnesses. I know you have much more
to say and hopefully you will get that opportunity as we go around
the table so to speak and have Members join in with questions.
I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Ms. Alemán, I would like to really just start with you. We all
know that the ultimate goal of Category Management is to increase
efficiencies and to decrease duplication and things that harm the
process. And yet, what we see as we have all heard today and
which many of you have given in your testimonies, has been an ad-
verse effect on small businesses.
Now, I know some of you, and I want to come to you in just a
moment, had some specific suggestions, but Ms. Alemán, what do
you think we can do to strike the right balance as the Congress
with oversight between the goals of Category Management and en-
suring that we still have a robust small business base?
Ms. ALEMÁN. Thank you. I think that the actions already taken
in the house version of the National Defense Authorization Act al-
ready addresses some of the important topics that we have been

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
12

testifying on. For example, an amendment to the Small Business
Act included in the NDA states that all contracts awarded under
the relevant sections of the Small Business Act will be classified as
Tier 0. In essence, they will not be aligned to Category Manage-
ment principles and not be required to be enforced under Category
Management rules. And it further stipulates that these Tier 0 con-
tracts shall not be included in metrics related to Category Manage-
ment rules and that federal agencies shall not re-classify Tier 0
contracts to Tier 1, 2, or 3 without approval from the SBA adminis-
trator. This is a really important step to preventing future small
business awards from being rolled up into massive procurements
for large businesses as is currently being done with several of our
own task orders at the IRS.
As a metrics person, as a person who lives for numbers, I can
tell you that people will do what they are measured against. If you
measure them against what percentages they do in each of these
tiers, and Tier 0 is not an option for them, guess what? They are
not going to use Tier 0.
Chairman MFUME. Okay. Ms. Casey, you were specific in your
written testimony. You have four recommendations. Is it fair to as-
sume that all of these recommendations that you listed are still
very much needed and necessary? And if you would, could you kind
of prioritize them and let the Committee know what is the most
important or the second most important issue?
Ms. CASEY. Yes, of course. As Ms. Alemán just said, the number
one item would be to consider the language that allows small busi-
nesses and small business to be considered in Category Manage-
ment such that they would not get count against the metrics. And
so that would allow more small businesses to compete. So I agree
with that recommendation. And if that cannot be done, considering
that for professional services contracts, considering the GSA sched-
ules which are very successful for both new entrants and current
small businesses to win prime contracts should be considered be-
cause they are competitively awarded under GSA. And so they
should be considered under Category Management.
I would also strongly consider that you look at not only current
SBA increases in small business size standards but future in-
creases that keep the small business supplier base very healthy or
very important.
Chairman MFUME. Okay. I am going to quickly go to you, Mr.
Holt. You talked specifically about loss of competition, smaller mar-
gins. I think I also heard you say that someone from your firm or
that you associated with came before a similar hearing back in
2018 and that nothing has changed in many respects. Any specific
ideas? You have heard both Ms. Alemán and Ms. Casey. What are
your thoughts on what we can do and should do to be able to turn
this around?
Mr. HOLT. I echo what they say as far as more language as it
relates to the NDA for inclusion. One of the biggest challenges that
we face as small businesses, especially as it relates to Category
Management, Best-in-Class type contracts as a subcontractor is
playing with very, very razor thin margins where we are asked to
do a lot with a little. And it is sort of like sometimes just going
down the line to whatever company will sign up for that.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
13

So what we are looking at is how do we hold these primes that
we work with more accountable, understanding their pricing struc-
ture that you see on the procurement side and being able to say
this is fair and justified what they are doing with their small busi-
nesses, that small businesses will be able to perform. There will
not be any false starts on onboarding a small business, a subcon-
tractor in getting underway and showing good service delivery to
the federal government.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much, Mr. Holt.
Ms. Tong, I do not have any time left so I will try to hold off my
comments and questions for our next round. But thank you very
much for your patience.
As I said, my time is expired, so the Ranking Member, Ms. Sala-
zar of Florida, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to all
the witnesses.
I wanted to start with Ms. Tong. You mentioned, you said two
key words. That you were being bullied and that Google had writ-
ten a letter to an agency which I am sorry that I did not—maybe
I did not write the name correctly and I wanted you to expand on
the bullying situation. Who has been bullying you? And number
two, if you could expand on that initiative taken by Google, and to
what agency and what did the letter contain? Thank you, Ms.
Tong.
Ms. TONG. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about this
issue.
Yes, it was Google, the giant. This is a very important initiative
taken by DHA for an organization called Joint Pathology Center.
So DHA had conducted initiatives before and identified the solu-
tions they want for this effort. And we were picked to be the inte-
grator for this work. So Google called us and said we have talked
to the executive in DHA and they like our solution. So I told them
the solution was picked by DHA. All we have to do is to follow the
instruction they want and put together the team to perform this
work. So I told them. I said I will try to help them look for the fu-
ture but I just cannot take them to the team. So Google turned
around and sent a letter of concern to DHA complaining that why
did DHA award this contract to an 8(a) company? I do not know
the details of the letter because it was directly sent to a lawyer of
DHA. All I know is that the customer asked us what we had dis-
closed to Google, which I did not because we signed an NDA.
This is a very——
Ms. SALAZAR. So you signed an NDA but nonetheless, Google
had the information that it should have not had?
Ms. TONG. They got the information—and also, I think they
know something from their connection in the network in DHA. So
they come to me.
Ms. SALAZAR. Oh.
Ms. TONG. I just tell them I cannot tell them.
Ms. SALAZAR. DHA is working for Google then?
Ms. TONG. They did not get that for the effort. So this is the
way that DHA find out what could be possible solutions out there
for them. And then based on their response, they will decide what

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
14

are the solutions they would like to use for this effort. So Google
participated but was not selected.
Ms. SALAZAR. All right. And besides what you just described as
Google’s way of conducting itself against your interests, what other
bullying incidents have you felt or have you experienced in the last
while conducting your business as a small business owner?
Ms. TONG. So I have another contract as an example. We cre-
ated software that was very successful at the regional level. I was
able to convince the CIO to bring it to enterprise-wide and they are
very happy about it and would support this idea. But unfortu-
nately, they were told by the contracting and one of the organiza-
tions that managed the money, they told them, they say, no, we
cannot have more contracts. And I cannot say it is bullying but I
think they have connections with the large businesses. So the
award actually got pushed through a large business vehicle and it
is not even an IT contract vehicle. So our customer told them, say
we are the ones who create software and they were hoping that
they could leverage us for this effort. But the large business just
turned around and used the money to hire our people.
Ms. SALAZAR. All right. Very, very insightful information that
I am sure our Chairman is understanding that we definitely need
to do something about this and continue protecting people like you
all over the country that are being stolen not only their intellectual
property but their employees, people that you have invested time
and effort and energy into training for now to be then just stolen
away by the bigger guy.
Thank you. I think that my time is coming to an end. I will get
back to you in the second round. Thank you very much for sharing
that with us. I am sure that is not an experience that you have
only felt. I am sure there are thousands of other small business
owners all over the country that are experiencing the same thing.
Thank you, Ms. Tong.
Ms. TONG. Thank you.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you. The gentlewoman’s time is ex-
pired.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Kim
for 5 minutes.
Mr. KIM. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really appreciate it.
Mr. Holt, I wanted to start with you. In your testimony, you
noted that ‘‘with larger contracts being utilized by the federal gov-
ernment, subcontracting is more important than ever.’’ You identi-
fied better oversight of prime contractors’ compliance with subcon-
tracting plans as one solution. I have a legislation I am trying to
put forward called the Put Our Neighbors to Work Act, which was
also included in the House passed—which would require upcoming
DoD subcontracting opportunities to be posted publicly so local
small businesses have a better chance to compete.
One thing that we have come across that we feel like has been
helpful, for instance, are the procurement technical assistance cen-
ters (PTACs), like the one at the New Jersey Institute of Tech-
nology, which provides one-on-one counseling to help small busi-
nesses become subcontractors.
I wanted to ask your thoughts. What other strategies should we
be using to get more small businesses started in contracting? Be-

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
15

cause trying to figure out how to demystify the process and help
them understand what might be feasible. So I wanted to see if you
had other thoughts about the PTACs or about other opportunities.
Mr. HOLT. We happen to work with the PTAC, specifically DC
PTAC. And they are a great resource for what we have been able
to do and they have been instrumental with our growth as it re-
lates to having entry points into federal government introductions
as well as understanding certain programs that are out there. So
I would definitely push the PTAC as one of those resources for you.
In addition, the Putting Our Neighbors to Work, when you said
that I smiled because I always think of our neighbors as many dif-
ferent neighborhoods but me, as a HUBZone company, that is
something that I really embrace and the HUBZone Council em-
braces that where we are always looking at how do we get subcon-
tracting and prime opportunities put into the HUBZone arena.
HUBZone companies, and I say this probably more than anyone,
knows how to find these individuals, these neighbors that you
speak of that we can identify, train, employ, coach, and mentor
along their career journey and get them into gainful employment.
Currently, I have about 120 employees in Alabama with the major-
ity of them, 80 percent plus of them are in HUBZone communities.
And so when I think about that, working with various local agen-
cies, the Department of Employment Services, working with
PTACs, working with veteran organizations who they are always
looking at how do we find our returning heroes and our warfighters
employment. So those are some that come to mind.
Mr. KIM. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that, Mr. Holt.
I wanted to just open this up for anyone who might want to re-
spond. But another issue that I keep hearing over and over again
is about how small businesses often have fewer resources than
larger businesses in terms of navigating red tape and the bureauc-
racy that comes with contracting with federal gvernment. And that
obviously creates these barriers to entry for many qualified small
businesses from the very start. So I wanted to ask if any one of
you had any thoughts about whether or not there were targeted re-
forms that could be made to administrative burdens that would
allow accessibility for small businesses to enter the market and
whether or not you have any thoughts or some concrete thoughts
here about what it is that we can do.
So I will just kind of open that up if anybody has any thoughts
here.
Mr. HOLT. I will speak up real quickly. The HUBZone program
has never met its 3 percent goal requirements since inception, 23
years. There is a lot that can be done there. And I would offer to
work with you on that. The HUBZone Council would offer to work
with you on that.
Mr. KIM. Ms. Tong?
Ms. TONG. Yeah. I would like to suggest can we remove the J&A
requirement for HUBZone, women-owned and SDVOSB sole
source? Because right now, every time we try to do sole source for
those three categories, the contracting officer refuses to do so be-
cause it has to go through the lawyer for legal review and it takes
a long time. So even though we have the FAR saying that we are

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
16

allowed to get a sole source but no one is doing that. Or very few
of them.
Mr. KIM. Great. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields
back.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Stauber, the gentleman from Min-
nesota, for 5 minutes.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And thanks to
all the witnesses.
This is for anyone on the panel. What hurdles must small busi-
nesses, particularly new small businesses that are just starting out
in the federal marketplace have to overcome to successfully partici-
pate in government contracts under Category Management? This is
for anybody on the panel.
Ms. CASEY. I am happy to take that, Mr. Stauber.
Gosh, to be a small business entry in the market and telling the
federal government is almost impossible. So to actually even learn
about all of the contract peoples and the experience that you need
to start applying for those contracts, it starts as a subcontractor.
So you need to find out opportunities to subcontract. But then you
need opportunities to prime contract. And there are fewer and
fewer opportunities to prime contract on GSA schedules than there
used to be. The GSA schedules used to provide a great opportunity
to subcontract to get you ready to bid on things like a GWAC or
a Best-in-Class vehicle. And so allowing more opportunities on the
schedules so that small businesses can get the prime contract expe-
rience they need to then be a credible prime for the Best-in-Class
vehicles is a critical pathway and very important.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much.
Is there anybody else on the panel that would like to tackle that
question or have comments on the question?
Ms. TONG. From my experience I found was very helpful for the
new entrants. They can enter into a Joint Venture with a larger
company and then through the large company they can get sole
source contracts or they can get subcontract opportunities to help
them to get started. That is how I helped my protégés.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much.
And Ms. Alemán, did you want to respond?
Ms. ALEMÁN. So the thing that I am look for today is the oppor-
tunity to create opportunities for small emerging companies. So one
of those is through mentorships. Historically, and we benefitted
from large businesses under the Department of Defense’s Mentor-
Protégé program. And SAIC at that time was our mentor. We
learned so much. They helped us with our certifications. But the
DoD Mentor-Protégé program funds those large businesses. Pro-
vides dollars for them to have staff to help us. So they are incented
to. That does not exist in the civilian space. So for those that are
working civilian, there is no funding for that. And quite frankly, as
a mentor to other small businesses in the Women’s Chamber of
Commerce, I find that our smalls are larger smalls, like the ones
represented here today, make better mentors to the small smalls
than the big companies because we get them. We are there every
Saturday and Sunday writing the proposal. We can hit each other

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
17

up on Teams. We are talking 24/7. We understand the world they
are living in and we are still facing some of those challenges. So
we are closer to the fire and we have a better shot at really helping
them. So providing funding for mentors would be ideal.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?
Chairman MFUME. Let’s see. It looks like you have got a minute
and one second.
Mr. STAUBER. Okay. You know, I think that the cost savings
for taxpayers, it is absolutely laudable. But it is clear that Cat-
egory Management is and has a punishing effect on some of our
small businesses. And so I would ask any of the panelists real
quick, what suggestions do you have to make our federal market-
place more accessible for small business participation? And just
give me one or two quick examples all three of you with the time
remaining. Thank you.
Ms. CASEY. I would suggest mandating that all of the agencies
use a forecast system to project out what their requirements are so
small businesses can pursue both subcontracting and prime oppor-
tunities and that is not consistent across agencies.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you.
Sophia?
Ms. TONG. So I would suggest to stop counting by the quota of
the sole source and set aside for small businesses for the Category
Management. And increase more sole source, more small business
set aside for us.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you.
Ms. Alemán, real quick.
Ms. ALEMÁN. Yeah. So for BICs like Alliant 2 that got canceled
for the small businesses, they only offered 80 seats at the table for
the 400 small business bidders. Percentage-wise, the 50 larges that
got it out of the 80 that bid does not make any sense. And why
GSA stuck to their ground on 80 when they had the opportunity
through the federal procurement process and the protest process to
increase the ceiling to 120 and they refused. They just canceled it
and they essentially locked out small businesses from that BIC ve-
hicle forever because they canceled the procurement. It is only open
for the larges.
Mr. STAUBER. Well, thank you very much.
Back to you, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you. The gentleman from Minnesota
yields back.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr.
Meuser, for 5 minutes.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our wit-
nesses very much. This is quite an important hearing. I have many
small businesses in my district throughout Pennsylvania going
through much of what you are all discussing and revealing. And it
is appreciated. And it matters. So hopefully we can take this infor-
mation and do something with it. That is what our role should be.
Oversight but also effectuate some improvements.
And Mr. Stauber’s last question on what we can do for you to
make contracting more accessible, efficient, transparent is a key
question here. So I noted that well.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
18

I would ask Lynn Ann Casey, in your original testimony or your
testimony here losing contracts, you have lost contracts, or all of
you have difficulty retaining contracts due to changes in class re-
quirements. And sometimes that happens sort of late in the game
or during the contracting process. Can you illustrate that a little
more and tell us, that just sounds like a very challenging situation
should a contract requirement change late in the game.
Ms. CASEY. Yes. Often we find out, we would like to compete
on a contract. We want to do that fairly. We are not asking to be
rewarded a contract without a competition. But we are finding out
later and later that our agencies are at the very end moving our
recompetes to these Best-in-Class vehicles without even clearly
communicating that to us. So we do not know where those opportu-
nities are going sometimes and we have to scramble at the last
minute to become a subcontractor to someone who is on those vehi-
cles. And that has happened to us multiple times, mostly because
of the department and agency-level procurement policies that re-
quire mandatory use for vehicles and for Category Management ve-
hicles. And so often we see those switching vehicles all the time so
we cannot even track them. We have had multiple contracts go to
large business instead of small on Category Management or to just
go onto a Category Management where we are not a prime con-
tractor and it does not happen all the time.
Mr. MEUSER. Is it explained to you why that occurs? Like the
agent that you are working with, they explain to you anything?
Ms. CASEY. No. Actually, at the department level, they will not
even publish what their policy is so we only find out about it by
talking to a contracting officer who says very little. They say they
cannot share a copy of the policy with us and they would like to
get an exception for the policy but they actually are afraid to put
their neck out and go talk to a fair exception process in their agen-
cies and they really do not have the information to explain it. They
just have to blindly follow the policy from their agencies.
Mr. MEUSER. Mr. Holt, does this seem like a fair process to
you?
Mr. HOLT. No, it is not. And it is a process that I have been af-
fected by. We had a Best-in-Class vehicle be a Stars 2—where we
were doing cybersecurity work with the Navy and there was a con-
tract that we enjoyed for almost 8 years. When the option period
was coming up they took it down to the wire. They did put it on
the street. There was no recompete and that week we were in-
formed that the small business work was no longer needed and I
saw 75 percent of my team absorbed in a prime who was already
doing work with that program office and they just took them on.
So, this is something that has affected us personally. And what
that did, that hit us, that was worth about $2.8 million a year in
revenue that walked out the door.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. I am glad to hear this. Sorry it occurred,
but glad to hear it.
I want to change subjects a little bit and ask about vaccine guid-
ance for federal contractors, both from those who provide product
and service. Have you in your view received guidance that is to go
into effect by December 8th, clear, understandable, comprehendible

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
19

guidance on what type of vaccines or level of vaccination and all
that your employees must have in order to keep your contracts?
Ms. ALEMÁN. So we have already published a policy for our em-
ployees regarding that and provided them with timelines, options,
the path for obtaining legitimate exemptions. We have engaged
once the Executive Order was signed, within 2 weeks we engaged
legal counsel to develop how we would roll that out into our organi-
zation. We have been on all-hands calls with our employees. Every-
one that is vaccinated has uploaded their vaccine cards to a private
HR portal. And there are folks that will not get vaccinated that are
not exempt and they know that their last day with us will be De-
cember 8th.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
I will say though that I do hear from many small businesses that
have federal contracts that they do not understand clearly the vac-
cine requirements which they want to abide by but they do not
have the precise requirements.
I yield back. Thank you.
Chairman MFUME. Thank you very much. The gentleman from
Pennsylvania yields back.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitz-
gerald, for 5 minutes.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As somebody that was a former small business owner and a vet-
eran, you know, a lot of the questions today kind of nibble on the
edges of what is the big frustration. And it is the same today as
I think it has been for many years and that is having the technical
assistance available to navigate the federal system. And I know
personally, and I think if you talk to specifically a couple of indus-
tries, for the most part the sector, light manufacturing or certainly,
I was very familiar with the printing industry. And if you want a
federal contract, you either need to hire out professional services
that can navigate the federal system and the technical aspects of
all the specs that need to be met, or you need to hire somebody
that is full-time on staff that can work and navigate, like I said,
the entire system. So that is a frustration that has existed for
many years.
I would just say there is a couple of different angles I think that
could be helpful, and I would like maybe Ms. Tong could comment
on this and Mr. Holt for sure. If there were larger contractors that
were granted kind of a larger scope of what they could enter into
or what they could actually bid on and then the ancillary smaller
businesses, whether it is a tool and die shop down the street or cer-
tainly transportation services, if there was some way of enhancing
the synergy between those two entities, do you think that would be
helpful? Because that seems to be still missing out there in this
whole discussion. And I would offer that to Ms. Tong first.
Ms. TONG. Thank you. So I think the challenge for us to work-
ing with large businesses actually, they take a big cut on pass
through when they give it to us which makes it difficult for us. Yes,
they constantly engage small businesses but they just did not give
us the good rate to recruit talents to be able to have margin or to
work efficiently. And like us, T&T, we actually have like 15 con-
tract vehicles. We are able to bid and we see all the opportunities.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
20

But challenge is more like some of the opportunities get consoli-
dated, become a super huge contract and it is just not something
small business or even midsize companies can bid. That is the
main issue.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Holt, do you have any comment on that?
Mr. HOLT. Yes, sir. We actually have played on both sides of the
field. Right now we are working with a large, coming up on a year,
it has been a very enjoyable, enjoyable opportunity where they
have given us custodial responsibility for the services that we de-
liver with the appropriate rates. And that is an anomaly. That is
usually not the norm. And what the norm is is that depending on
the health and the needs of the prime, a lot of times when the task
order comes up for renewal or a recompete, they are going to ask
you to lower your rate. They are going to ask you how do you lower
your rate? And we have had it happen at mid-contract before
where I call it the bullying effect where the prime will come and
say, hey, is there any room? We need you to go down by X percent.
And, you know, we have held our ground on some and we have had
opportunities where we just have to walk away because we could
not do the business. So, you know, if there was a way to have more
compliance as it relates to the prime and how the government
looked into how they treated their subcontractors, I think it would
go a long way as it relates to compliance and oversight and ensur-
ing proper revenue shift as far as the pricing that is being pushed
down to us.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Very good. Thank you. Thank you.
In the limited amount of time that I have left, I just wanted to
touch on something that Congressman Meuser brought up earlier
and that is, Mr. Chairman, I think there is kind of a storm brewing
out there on the vaccination. There are so many different tentacles
that are kind of reaching in to the smaller businesses that do work
or are associated with specific types of sectors, whether they utilize
the U.S. Mail or they may have obviously DoD ties. And you know,
what was presented I think by the Biden Administration as some-
thing that was only going to affect corporations with 100 employees
or more, we are starting to hear, I am back in the district, that this
is reaching down much further than that and I would hope that
this Committee would use its voice to make sure we reach out to
the administration and make them aware of that because, like I
said, I think it is a storm that is brewing that could become a big
problem down the road.
So, and I would yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chairman MFUME. The gentleman from Wisconsin yields back.
The gentleman’s points are well taken and I will share them with
the larger Committee on Small Business that might want to pursue
that going forward.
We are going to pursue a second round of questioning and I will
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Can any of you or all of you talk to the fact about whether or
not you were not allowed to recompete at some point in time on a
contract and what was that like and how did you make out? Any-
one?
Ms. CASEY. I can speak to that, Mr. Mfume.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
21

Over the past 3 years, we have not been allowed to recompete
on at least seven different contracts worth probably well over $15
million of work where we were getting exceptional ratings from the
government on our performance. So it is really significantly affect-
ing us. It has been many, many contracts. What ultimately ends
up happening——
Mr. FITZGERALD. I am going to have to jump off now, so.
Chairman MFUME. Okay. So you will skip the second round?
Ms. CASEY. What ends up happening is we have to give up the
work and then our people who are doing work at that agency then
get hired by either the large contractor or the company on Category
Management that run the work. So it is hurting our long-term
workforce and it is hurting our long-term revenue, and it is places
where we were doing excellent performance. I am sure my fellow
panelists have seen similar things.
Chairman MFUME. And was there any effort to move you into
a Best-in-Class situation?
Ms. CASEY. Yes. Most of those were because they were moving
it from say a GSA schedule to a Best-in-Class vehicle or they were
moving it from a department-wide vehicle into a Best-in-Class vehi-
cle. So, yes, it was because of Category Management and Best-in-
Class.
Chairman MFUME. Now, I have heard the term ‘‘bullying’’ a
couple times today and it is interesting because I think what I am
really hearing is something that Mr. Holt referenced earlier and
that is the way primes treat subs and that there is apparently a
lack of best practices or a lack of guidelines. I mean, we put in
place a number of guidelines. If you are a prime in order to get a
sub you must do this, you must do that. There are a number of
things that have to be complied with.
Mr. Holt, am I talking out of school? Are you suggesting here
that there ought to be some sort of standards that we can put in
place even if we do it through report language? That would give
primes some sense that they are being watched in terms of how
they are treating subs to make sure this ‘‘bullying’’ phenomena
does not continue?
Mr. HOLT. Yes, sir. That is exactly what I am saying.
Chairman MFUME. And do you have any suggestions of what
those standards or guidelines should encompass?
Mr. HOLT. I think it should be part of their service level deliv-
eries being transparent with the government, as well as being
transparent with the subs that are supporting the primes, under-
standing what the expected revenue share is up front where a lot
of times primes, they will say, hey, we want you on this particular
opportunity. Give us your pricing. Give us this. Give us that. And
when you go to talk about workshare, they do not want to have
that conversation. That is taboo. And what usually can come out
of that is that they start using us as staff augmentation as opposed
to solutionists where we can really come in and provide something
that is of value, if you will, that we can create more effect from
this, more efficiency. And on the other side of the coin is for the
primes to partner with us as opposed to just push work down to
us that they may not want to do and that the margin may not be
big enough for them to put their own employees in.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
22

Chairman MFUME. Okay. My time is short.
Ms. Tong, you had mentioned also your not so pleasant experi-
ence with Google and you heard Mr. Holt. Any suggestions you
may have also to kind of prevent that from occurring in the future?
Ms. TONG. Yes. So I think right now, government only look at
the percentage they sub out to the sub or small business but they
never look at the financial numbers in terms of how much will the
money pass down to small business. Or do they even offer to pass
down the escalation to the subs? For some cases, we cannot ask es-
calation for rate adjustment, our rate over the year remains the
same but you know that people’s salaries are going to increase over
a year. So things like that. If government can look at more num-
bers, or even use cost plus type of contract i.e. base on what is the
actual cost they hire the sub and then they just give them incen-
tives or the profit, I think it will help so they do not have to cut
our rate in order to meet their financial goal.
Chairman MFUME. Okay. Thank you very much. My time has
expired.
The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Salazar of Flor-
ida, for 5 minutes.
Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And this goes for any
of the witnesses and any of the speakers. I would like to hear your
experiences. I have heard from some of you this term of ‘‘buying
your staff and intellectual property for pennies on the dollar.’’ I
know that Ms. Tong spoke about it but I would like to hear Ms.
Alemán or Ms. Casey, if there are any examples that you want to
share with us specifically when another bigger contractor stole
from you precious employees after you had trained them and in-
vested money, time, and energy in keeping them.
So, Ms. Alemán or Ms. Casey or Ms. Tong. Let’s start with you,
Ms. Alemán. I am not sure if you want to share with us. Do you
have examples where we can illustrate this practice is happening
right now? Please do so.
Ms. ALEMÁN. Yes. This is a very recent example at the IRS. We
have developed an award-winning solution for Dev Sec Ops, CICD
pipeline, onboarding, saving the IRS 27,000 to 30,000 hours a year
for the automation we have done and we have accelerated that
with a patent pending unique solution that we have actually pat-
ented and won a national and international award for. It was so
critical to their filing season that they gave us, they issued us
under the women-owned procurement preference, they issued us a
sole source contract last year to continue our work because our
large agency-wide vehicle got shut down by a BIC. And that was
full and open and it got shut down by the BICs. So they issued us
this wonderful 2-year contract, sole source, base and option. Come
September at the end of our base year, we still had an option
where they did not need to reprocure. Instead of exercising our op-
tion year which they need the support we provide, they bundled a
series of large contracts into something like a $120, $200 million
contract. So they bundled it and they said, ‘‘No, no. Everything
goes under that now. So you have got to go talk to them.’’ So we
did. We went to the prime, Maximus, who said, ‘‘Oh, no, we do not
have space for you on our team.’’ This is after award, knowing that
our work would be shut down. Then they sent us, they batted us

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
23

over, this is the bullying part but it is almost like collusion. They
batted us over to their key subcontractor which we all know
Deloitte is not a small. So Maximus and Deloitte, both of them tell-
ing each other in the background, ‘‘no, no, no, do not hire them.’’
Meanwhile, calling every single one of our employees on that con-
tract and now the government is calling our employees. The gov-
ernment. The federal employees are calling our employees saying,
‘‘Go, please go. We cannot shut down your work. We need it.’’ We
have been off the contract for 3 weeks and the pipeline has been
shut down.
So I am looking forward to January when filing season kicks off
and they are not able to launch this because my employees refused
to go. So they are sitting on my bench now which is totally fine be-
cause that is on me. That is the kind of decisions we small business
owners make. We choose where our money goes. We choose to in-
vest our profits in our people. And that is why they do not leave
during a shutdown, during COVID, during contract transitions.
They do not go because of that. So that is not only predatory but
they are also positioned to steal our intellectual property.
Ms. SALAZAR. Absolutely. This cannot happen and I thank you
very much for sharing this testimony.
Chairman, you have been listening to this. We have got to stop
this somehow. That is what we are here for. The government can-
not be stealing away from the private sector. So thank you, Ms.
Alemán.
I think I have a couple of more minutes. Ms. Casey, would you
like to share some of your experiences with us?
Ms. CASEY. I, too, have had similar experiences where large
businesses have signed subcontracts with us and have given us a
workshare. Say 30 percent of the work is supposed to be performed
by Arc Aspicio. And if we are lucky, we will get 5 to 10 percent of
that revenue and nobody holds the prime accountable. And there
is no way, you know, they have a lot of lawyers and there is no
way we can kind of argue with them about standing forward with
their teaming agreements. But they use our teaming agreements to
actually win the contracts in the first place. So they say we are
going to team with Arc Aspicio. They are going to do all this work
and then afterwards they do not do that and I, too, have had simi-
lar experiences where a large prime contractor has literally taken
one of my employees, given that employee to one of the other small
businesses on the contract, and on Friday they leave us and they
say that person will not work there and on Monday they are there
working on the same contract for another small business.
Ms. SALAZAR. Incredible.
Ms. CASEY. Unbelievable.
Ms. SALAZAR. Unbelievable.
Thank you very much for sharing, both of you, and I am sure
that we will, we are going to take action into this. And thanks once
again. I have to yield back. I do not have any more time.
Chairman MFUME. The gentlewoman yields back.
The Chair recognizes again the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
Mr. Meuser, for 5 minutes.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00027 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
24

Mr. MEUSER. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. Thanks, every-
one, again, for all this important information. I agree with Ms.
Salazar. We certainly need to help them and act upon it.
So in a couple of the testimonies and in the discussion that just
took place, you know, Ms. Alemán referred to as predatory Joint
Ventures between large and small firms and that has been dis-
cussed. But I want to delve into that a little bit further here where
these larger firms will set up subsidiaries or just new companies
and set up Joint Ventures. And therefore, are able to capture con-
tracts that they would not normally be able to capture. So large
companies can do that and then perhaps undercut along the way.
I mean, that is capitalism to an extent; right? I mean, if you can
do something better you are going to be able to sell it for less, but
when you are engaged in a deliberate, truly manipulative manner
that is not outlined in a contract. It does not state, hey, if you want
to get a small business contract or a minority-owned contract or a
veteran-owned contract, you cannot just set up a company with
those people as owners and therefore now you are eligible. I mean,
that is just clearly against the grain and inappropriate and should
not be done and perhaps should be illegal.
Is that something that, now, you have all been mentioning it but
I will go to Lynn Ann Casey. Ms. Casey, is that something that
small businesses experience related to federal contracts?
Ms. CASEY. I would say that there are certain situations where
large business prims enter into Joint Ventures. And I would call
them serial Joint Ventures where they do it over and over and
over. I think Joint Ventures are a good thing for small businesses,
especially under the mentoring programs but I would look to
maybe limit how often a large business can enter into those Joint
Ventures and whether they are serial Joint Ventures and therefore,
preventing other small businesses from benefitting.
Mr. MEUSER. Yes. It has to be a legitimate Joint Venture, not
just a spinoff.
Would someone else like to comment on that?
Ms. TONG. Yeah, can I? So my situation is my mentor, they ac-
tually have so many protégés which makes our Joint Venture was
not as fruitful as I wish it would be because just with us it is a
food fight within us. So I want to echo what Ms. Casey said. Limit
the number of protégés they can have because we can only have
two mentors but they can have at a minimum three at the same
time within SBA and not to mention other agencies like DoD or
Treasury.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you.
Ms. Alemán or anyone else care to comment?
Ms. ALEMÁN. So I am a big fan of capitalism. I am a Cuban-
American immigrant. This is what my parents brought me here to
this country to do. I believe in America, freedom, the opportunities
it provides. I will live and die by that. And I can tell you that I
hear the pain in Lynn Ann and Victor and Sophia’s voice because
we have all been there. And any small business owner that you put
in front of a room and you say, oh, has this ever happened to you,
the intent of Joint Ventures is a good one. Just like Category Man-
agement. It is a good one. It is to relieve the pressure of procure-
ment offices.

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00028 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
25

The reason smalls, ultra-smalls, are gravitating towards them
knowing that they are still vulnerable is because they do not have
a choice. So I think it is our responsibility, mutual responsibility,
you as our elected representatives and us with a voice in our com-
munities and in the organizations we belong, to create that oppor-
tunity for them. Let’s give them the choice. Let’s give them the
choice to get work so that they can put other human beings to
work, which is what we spend our money on is other human
beings. So I just say create more opportunity. Do not shut down
capitalism. That is not what this is about. I promise you all the
small business owners I deal with and these on this call, we are
not looking for handouts. We are looking for fair competition, that
is all.
Mr. MEUSER. Perfectly well said.
Mr. Holt, last word? You have about 25 seconds.
Mr. HOLT. I agree with everything that has been said. I think
Joint Ventures is a good thing when done correctly. A lot of times
we see that it can become predator where companies come together
to capitalize and create an unfair marketplace. So as long as it is
done correctly, I am 100 percent supportive.
Mr. MEUSER. Great. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back. And thanks again to all of our wit-
nesses.
Chairman MFUME. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman’s
time is expired. All time has expired.
And on behalf of the Ranking Member, I want to thank all of our
witnesses for being here today. Your testimonies showcase the ob-
stacles and many of the frustrations that Category Management
has created for small businesses like yours across the country. And
the longer we allow these issues to persist for small firms, they will
be pushed out of the federal supplier base.
This would be bad news, obviously, for businesses, but it would
also be bad news for our government. So I look forward to working
with Committee Members to find ways to improve our federal pro-
curement systems while ensuring abundant opportunities for all
small businesses.
I would ask unanimous consent that Members have 5 legislative
days to submit statements and supporting materials for the record.
And without objection, so ordered.
And if there is no further business before the Committee, we
stand adjourned. Thank you all very much.
[Responses to Questions by Mr. Victor Holt were not received in
a timely manner.]
[Whereupon, at 1:34 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

SBD026 with DISTILLER

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00029 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
26

APPENDIX

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 26 here 45780.001

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
27

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 27 here 45780.002

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
28

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 28 here 45780.003

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
29

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 29 here 45780.004

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
30

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 30 here 45780.005

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00034 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
31

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 31 here 45780.006

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
32

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 32 here 45780.007

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00036 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
33

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 33 here 45780.008

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
34

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 34 here 45780.009

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00038 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
35

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 35 here 45780.010

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00039 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
36

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 36 here 45780.011

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00040 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
37

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 37 here 45780.012

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00041 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
38

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 38 here 45780.013

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00042 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
39

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 39 here 45780.014

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00043 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
40

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 40 here 45780.015

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
41

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 41 here 45780.016

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00045 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
42

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 42 here 45780.017

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00046 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
43

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 43 here 45780.018

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00047 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
44

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 44 here 45780.019

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00048 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
45

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 45 here 45780.020

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00049 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
46

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 46 here 45780.021

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00050 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
47

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 47 here 45780.022

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00051 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
48

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 48 here 45780.023

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00052 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
49

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 49 here 45780.024

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00053 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
50

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 50 here 45780.025

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00054 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
51

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 51 here 45780.026

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00055 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
52

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 52 here 45780.027

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00056 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
53

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 53 here 45780.028

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00057 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
54

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 54 here 45780.029

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00058 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
55

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 55 here 45780.030

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00059 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
56

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 56 here 45780.031

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00060 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
57

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 57 here 45780.032

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00061 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
58

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 58 here 45780.033

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00062 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6602 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE
59

SBD026 with DISTILLER Insert offset folio 59 here 45780.034

VerDate Mar 15 2010 13:55 Jun 13, 2022 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00063 Fmt 6602 Sfmt 6011 F:\DOCS\45780.TXT DEBBIE

File and source

File: CHRG-117hhrg45780.pdf
Size: 21,814,962 bytes
SHA-256: d7d0e00c8034d9bc395790a03f4079e3ff619ce17c2c5cdc755c076759d5fba5
Our copy: CHRG-117hhrg45780.pdf
Original: www.govinfo.gov