Transcript of Proceedings — United States v. Cassie Will-Darnall (September 24, 2025)
Summary
This is a transcript of proceedings on September 24, 2025, in United States v. Cassie Will-Darnall, Case CR-24-00292 PCP, called for sentencing in San Jose before the Honorable P. Casey Pitts. Johnny James appears for the United States and Varell Fuller for the defendant. The court declined the sophisticated means enhancement the government requested. It states that the adjusted offense level is 20, reflecting a base offense level of 7, an 18 point increase for a loss of more than $3.5 million, a 3 point decrease for acceptance of responsibility and a 2 point decrease as a zero point offender. It states a recommended guideline sentence of 33 to 41 months. The transcript also contains advice on filing a notice of appeal within 14 days and a reporter's certificate dated September 30, 2025.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Transcript of Proceedings — United States v. Cassie Will-Darnall (September 24, 2025).”
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Case 5:24-cr-00292-PCP Document 100 Filed 10/03/25 Page 1 of 45
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09:55AM 1
2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
3 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
4 SAN JOSE DIVISION
5
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )
6 ) CR-24-00292 PCP
PLAINTIFF, )
7 ) SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA
VS. )
8 ) SEPTEMBER 24, 2025
CASSIE WILL-DARNALL, )
9 ) PAGES 1 - 44
DEFENDANT. )
10 __ )
11
12 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE P. CASEY PITTS
13 UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
14
A P P E A R A N C E S:
15
FOR THE PLAINTIFF: UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
16 BY: JOHNNY JAMES
150 S. ALMADEN BOULEVARD, SUITE 900
17 SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA 95113
18
FOR THE DEFENDANT: OFFICE OF THE FEDERAL PUBLIC DEFENDER
19 BY: VARELL FULLER
55 S. MARKET STREET, SUITE 820
20 SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA 95113
21 U.S. PROBATION: DENISE MANCIA
22 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER:
IRENE L. RODRIGUEZ, CSR, RMR, CRR
23 CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074
24
PROCEEDINGS RECORDED BY MECHANICAL STENOGRAPHY
25 TRANSCRIPT PRODUCED WITH COMPUTER
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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1 SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA SEPTEMBER 24, 2025
2 P R O C E E D I N G S
10:12AM 3 (COURT CONVENED AT 10:12 A.M.)
10:12AM 4 THE CLERK: CALLING CASE NUMBER 24-CR-292,
10:12AM 5 UNITED STATES VERSUS CASSIE WILL-DARNALL. ON TODAY FOR
10:12AM 6 SENTENCING.
10:12AM 7 WILL THE PARTIES PLEASE APPROACH AND STATE YOUR
10:12AM 8 APPEARANCES FOR THE RECORD BEGINNING WITH THE GOVERNMENT.
10:12AM 9 MR. JAMES: IF IT MAY PLEASE THE COURT, JOHNNY JAMES
10:12AM 10 FOR THE UNITED STATES.
10:12AM 11 THE COURT: GOOD MORNING.
10:12AM 12 MR. FULLER: AND VARELL FULLER FOR
10:12AM 13 MS. CASSIE WILL-DARNALL. SHE'S PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT, AND
10:12AM 14 SHE IS OUT OF CUSTODY.
10:12AM 15 THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, MS. DARNALL.
10:12AM 16 PROBATION OFFICER: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.
10:12AM 17 DENISE MANCIA FOR U.S. PROBATION.
10:12AM 18 THE COURT: GOOD MORNING.
10:12AM 19 MR. JAMES: I WOULD ADDITIONALLY NOTE THAT THE
10:12AM 20 VICTIMS IN THIS MATTER HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED, AND THEY ARE NOT
10:12AM 21 PRESENT.
10:12AM 22 THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU. SO WE ARE CONTINUING
10:12AM 23 WHERE WE LEFT OFF A FEW WEEKS AGO. HOPEFULLY THE PARTIES HAD
10:12AM 24 AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE WRITTEN ORDER THAT I ISSUED WITH
10:12AM 25 RESPECT TO SENTENCING GUIDELINES AND MY CALCULATION OF THE
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10:12AM 1 SENTENCING GUIDELINES AS NOTED THEREIN.
10:13AM 2 I ULTIMATELY DETERMINED THAT THE ADJUSTED OFFENSE LEVEL IN
10:13AM 3 THIS CASE IS 20, WHICH REFLECTS A BASE OFFENSE LEVEL OF 7.
10:13AM 4 THE SPECIFIC OFFENSE CHARACTERISTICS OF A LOSS OF MORE
10:13AM 5 THAN $3.5 MILLION, WHICH IS AN 18 POINT INCREASE, AND THAT IS
10:13AM 6 USING THE INTENDED LOSS AS THE MEASURE UNDER THE 2024
10:13AM 7 GUIDELINES.
10:13AM 8 AND THEN THERE'S A 3 POINT DECREASE FOR THE ACCEPTANCE OF
10:13AM 9 RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL AS A 2 POINT DECREASE AS A 0 POINT
10:13AM 10 OFFENDER AS CASSIE WILL-DARNALL IS.
10:13AM 11 AND I DECLINED TO APPLY THE SOPHISTICATED MEANS
10:13AM 12 ENHANCEMENT THAT THE GOVERNMENT REQUESTED.
10:13AM 13 THE END RESULT THERE IS, ALONG WITH A CRIMINAL HISTORY
10:13AM 14 SCORE OF 0 AND A CRIMINAL HISTORY CATEGORY OF 1, THAT RESULTS
10:13AM 15 IN A RECOMMENDED GUIDELINE SENTENCE OF 33 TO 41 MONTHS TO BE
10:13AM 16 SATISFIED BY A TERM OF IMPRISONMENT GIVEN THAT IT'S IN ZONE D
10:13AM 17 AS WELL AS THE OTHER PROVISIONS SET FORTH IN THE ORDER.
10:14AM 18 LET ME START BY ASKING -- I KNOW OBVIOUSLY BOTH PARTIES
10:14AM 19 HAVE DISAGREEMENTS AS TO THE ELEMENTS, BUT I HAVE RESOLVED FOR
10:14AM 20 OUR PURPOSES THOSE ISSUES.
10:14AM 21 WITH RESPECT TO THE RECOMMENDED SENTENCE UNDER THE
10:14AM 22 GUIDELINES BASED ON THE CALCULATIONS THAT I'VE DONE AND SET
10:14AM 23 FORTH IN THE ORDER, ARE THERE ANY MISTAKES THAT I'VE MADE OR
10:14AM 24 ANY ISSUES THAT WERE IDENTIFIED? I'LL ASK THE GOVERNMENT
10:14AM 25 FIRST.
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10:14AM 1 MR. JAMES: I BELIEVE THE COURT HAS ADDRESSED THE
10:14AM 2 DISPUTED ISSUES THAT WERE PRESENTED TO IT, YOUR HONOR.
10:14AM 3 THE COURT: AND THE AMOUNT -- THE SUGGESTED TERM AND
10:14AM 4 THE SUGGESTED TERM OF SUPERVISED RELEASE IS ALL CORRECT TO THE
10:14AM 5 BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
10:14AM 6 MR. JAMES: THAT IS CORRECT TO THE BEST OF MY
10:14AM 7 KNOWLEDGE, YOUR HONOR.
10:14AM 8 THE COURT: OKAY. ANY CONCERNS FROM THE DEFENSE,
10:14AM 9 UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU'VE OBJECTED TO THE APPLICATION OF THE
10:14AM 10 2024 GUIDELINES?
10:14AM 11 MR. FULLER: WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, YES -- NO,
10:14AM 12 YOUR HONOR.
10:14AM 13 THE COURT: OKAY. OKAY. THEN THE MAIN THING WE
10:14AM 14 NEED TO DO TODAY THEN IS TO DETERMINE WHAT THE APPROPRIATE
10:14AM 15 SENTENCE SHOULD BE IN THIS CASE UNDER 18 U.S. CODE 3553(A) AND
10:15AM 16 THE FACTORS THAT ARE SET FORTH THERE.
10:15AM 17 LET ME START BY -- YOU KNOW, AND TO DO THAT I'LL HEAR FROM
10:15AM 18 THE GOVERNMENT AND MS. WILL-DARNALL'S COUNSEL, AND I WILL HEAR
10:15AM 19 FROM ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON MS. WILL-DARNALL'S BEHALF,
10:15AM 20 AND FROM MS. WILL-DARNALL HERSELF, AND PROBATION AS WELL IF
10:15AM 21 THEY HAVE ANYTHING THEY WOULD LIKE TO OFFER THIS MORNING.
10:15AM 22 SO I WANT TO -- WE DON'T NEED TO DO WHAT WE DID LAST TIME.
10:15AM 23 WE'VE ALREADY DONE THE EARLIER PART OF THE PROCEEDING, SO I
10:15AM 24 WON'T GET INTO THAT.
10:15AM 25 SO I WILL HEAR FROM THE GOVERNMENT FIRST, AND I WILL
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10:15AM 1 NOTE THAT I -- I NOTED THIS BEFORE, BUT I CERTAINLY HAVE HAD A
10:15AM 2 CHANCE TO READ THE MATERIALS PROVIDED BY MS. WILL-DARNALL AND
10:15AM 3 THE SUPPORTERS OF MS. WILL-DARNALL IN CONNECTION WITH THIS
10:15AM 4 MATTER.
10:15AM 5 BUT LET ME START WITH THE GOVERNMENT. AND BEFORE SORT OF
10:15AM 6 HEARING GENERALLY ON YOUR POSITION AS TO THE APPROPRIATE
10:15AM 7 SENTENCE IN THIS CASE, LET ME ASK, I BELIEVE THAT IN THE
10:16AM 8 GOVERNMENT'S SENTENCING MEMORANDUM THE SENTENCE THAT WAS
10:16AM 9 RECOMMENDED WAS AT THE LOW END OF THE GUIDELINES AS THE
10:16AM 10 GOVERNMENT HAD CALCULATED THOSE GUIDELINES.
10:16AM 11 IS THERE ANY CHANGE IN THE GOVERNMENT'S RECOMMENDED
10:16AM 12 SENTENCE GIVEN THE POSITION I'VE TAKEN AS TO THE APPROPRIATE
10:16AM 13 GUIDELINES CALCULATION HERE?
10:16AM 14 MR. JAMES: GIVEN THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S
10:16AM 15 RECOMMENDATION REMAINS WITHIN THE GUIDELINES AS MODIFIED BY THE
10:16AM 16 COURT'S RULING, THE GOVERNMENT'S RECOMMENDATION REMAINS THE
10:16AM 17 SAME OF 41 MONTHS, YOUR HONOR.
10:16AM 18 ALTHOUGH I CERTAINLY RECOGNIZE THAT THE GUIDELINES HAVE
10:16AM 19 NOW BEEN ADJUSTED DOWN AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE COURT'S RULING,
10:16AM 20 THE GOVERNMENT WAS SENSITIVE IN MAKING ITS ORIGINAL
10:16AM 21 RECOMMENDATION TO THE FACT THAT REASONABLE MINDS COULD TREAT
10:16AM 22 SOME OF THE FACTS IN THIS CASE DIFFERENTLY UNDER THE
10:16AM 23 GUIDELINES, AND EVEN THOUGH THE COURT HAS DECLINED TO APPLY
10:16AM 24 SOME OF THE ENHANCEMENTS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED UNDER THE
10:17AM 25 GUIDELINES, THE FACTS THAT LED US TO HAVE THAT LITIGATION CAN
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10:17AM 1 STILL PROVIDE TO AGGRAVATE THE OFFENSE WHEN THE COURT APPLIES
10:17AM 2 THE FACTORS.
10:17AM 3 THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT MS. WILL-DARNALL STILL
10:17AM 4 FORGED A NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS, TAX DOCUMENTS, EMPLOYMENT RECORDS
10:17AM 5 AND SO FORTH, IN THE COURSE OF PERPETUATING THIS FRAUD AND
10:17AM 6 STILL STOLE VERY CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLARS FROM FINANCIAL
10:17AM 7 INSTITUTIONS AS DEFINED BY THE GUIDELINES, AND CERTAINLY MORE
10:17AM 8 THAN $2.8 MILLION TOTAL FROM LENDERS.
10:17AM 9 THAT THEFT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT AS SET FORTH IN THE
10:17AM 10 GOVERNMENT'S SENTENCING MEMORANDUM. THE LOANS THAT WERE
10:17AM 11 DISBURSED TO MS. WILL-DARNALL REPRESENTS SOME OF THE LARGEST
10:17AM 12 ONES THAT WERE ISSUED UNDER THE PPP PROGRAM, AND THE THEFT OF
10:17AM 13 SUCH A STAGGERING AMOUNT OF MONEY MERITS A SIGNIFICANT
10:17AM 14 PUNISHMENT.
10:17AM 15 MS. WILL-DARNALL IS NOT A DEFENDANT SITUATED IN SUCH A WAY
10:18AM 16 WHERE WE MAY LOOK AT HER BACKGROUND AND HER HISTORY AND THINK
10:18AM 17 THAT SHE NEVER REALLY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY, THAT THE
10:18AM 18 CIRCUMSTANCES OF HER UPBRINGING INEXTRICABLY LED TO THIS
10:18AM 19 CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
10:18AM 20 SHE IS A DEFENDANT WHO WAS SUCCESSFUL IN THE COMMUNITY,
10:18AM 21 WAS A SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEUR, AND TURNED AWAY FROM THAT IN
10:18AM 22 ORDER TO DEFRAUD LENDERS AND ULTIMATELY THE GOVERNMENT OF
10:18AM 23 MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
10:18AM 24 SO WITH THAT IN MIND, REALLY BECAUSE OF THE SHEER SIZE OF
10:18AM 25 THE THEFT, THE GOVERNMENT REMAINS COMMITTED TO ITS
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10:18AM 1 RECOMMENDATION OF 41 MONTHS.
10:18AM 2 THERE'S REALLY ONLY SO MUCH POETRY THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO
10:18AM 3 STEALING. STEALING IS BAD. AND IN THAT CONTEXT IT IS
10:18AM 4 INCUMBENT UPON THE COURT TO ISSUE A FIRM SENTENCE IN ORDER TO
10:18AM 5 ENSURE THAT OTHERS SIMILARLY SITUATED ARE DETERRED FROM DOING
10:18AM 6 SO IN THE FUTURE.
10:18AM 7 THE COURT: OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO
10:18AM 8 OFFER BEFORE I HEAR FROM MS. WILL-DARNALL AND HER COUNSEL?
10:19AM 9 MR. JAMES: BEAR WITH ME ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.
10:19AM 10 THE COURT: THAT'S OKAY.
10:19AM 11 MR. JAMES: YOUR HONOR, I BELIEVE THAT THE RATHER
10:19AM 12 LENGTHY SENTENCING MEMORANDUM ARTICULATES THE GOVERNMENT'S
10:19AM 13 POSITION ADEQUATELY, AND THERE'S NOTHING FURTHER AT THIS TIME.
10:19AM 14 THE COURT: AND I WILL NOTE JUST FOR THE RECORD THAT
10:19AM 15 IN ADDITION TO THE MATERIAL THAT I IDENTIFIED LAST TIME AS
10:19AM 16 HAVING REVIEWED IT, I OBVIOUSLY ALSO REVIEWED THE PARTIES'
10:19AM 17 SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEFING THAT WAS PROVIDED AFTER OUR SEPTEMBER 5TH
10:19AM 18 HEARING AND LOOKED AT THAT BRIEFING IN CONNECTION WITH
10:19AM 19 PREPARING THE ORDER AND IN THINKING ABOUT TODAY'S PROCEEDINGS.
10:19AM 20 OKAY. LET ME HEAR FROM MS. WILL-DARNALL AND HER COUNSEL
10:19AM 21 AND WHATEVER -- AND IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK
10:19AM 22 ON HER BEHALF IN WHATEVER MANNER THAT YOU THINK IS MOST
10:19AM 23 APPROPRIATE.
10:19AM 24 MR. FULLER.
10:19AM 25 MR. FULLER: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD LIKE TO
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10:19AM 1 SUBMIT SOME ARGUMENTS WITH RESPECT TO WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE
10:19AM 2 APPROPRIATE SENTENCE.
10:20AM 3 THERE ARE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE PRESENT IN THE COURT, MY
10:20AM 4 CLIENT'S MOTHER, AS WELL AS A FRIEND, WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK
10:20AM 5 AND ADDRESS THE COURT.
10:20AM 6 THE -- I'D LIKE TO BEGIN BY NOTING, AS THE COURT NOTED,
10:20AM 7 THE GUIDELINE RANGE HAS BEEN SUBSEQUENTLY AMENDED BECAUSE OF
10:20AM 8 THE COURT'S RULING ABOUT THE SPECIFIC MEANS ENHANCEMENT. THAT
10:20AM 9 BRINGS THE GUIDELINE RANGE DOWN TO 33 TO 41 MONTHS.
10:20AM 10 PROBATION HERE HAS RECOMMENDED A VARIANCE. APPLYING THAT
10:20AM 11 VARIANCE AS RECOMMENDED BY PROBATION TO THE AMENDED GUIDELINE
10:20AM 12 RANGE, WE COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDED SENTENCE OF 16 MONTHS.
10:20AM 13 HERE, YOUR HONOR, THE DEFENSE SENTENCING REQUEST IS TO
10:20AM 14 HOME CONFINEMENT, AND WE PROPOSE IN THE ALTERNATIVE A SENTENCE
10:20AM 15 OF 12 MONTHS AND 1 DAY. WE THINK THAT THERE ARE COMPELLING
10:20AM 16 MITIGATING FACTORS HERE THAT WOULD WARRANT SUCH A SENTENCE. IN
10:20AM 17 PARTICULAR, THIS OFFENSE DOES INVOLVE THE -- MY CLIENT'S THEFT
10:20AM 18 OF THESE PPP LOANS PROCEEDS AND HER RECEIPT OF THAT MONEY.
10:20AM 19 NOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE NATURE AND CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE
10:20AM 20 OFFENSE, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE ACTUAL CONTEXT
10:21AM 21 IN WHICH THIS OCCURRED.
10:21AM 22 MY CLIENT WAS NOT -- SHE'S NOT A SERIAL FRAUDSTER. SHE
10:21AM 23 HAS NOT LIVED A LIFE OF CRIME. SHE HAS LIVED A LIFE AS A
10:21AM 24 FAIRLY LAW ABIDING INDIVIDUAL, AND THAT'S WHY SHE IS A ZERO
10:21AM 25 POINT OFFENDER. SHE DID AT ONE TIME HAVE A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS
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10:21AM 1 RENTING OUT EXECUTIVE RENTAL PROPERTIES IN THE BAY AREA, IN
10:21AM 2 SANTA CLARA IN PARTICULAR.
10:21AM 3 SHE HAD LOST HER MAIN CLIENT SHORTLY BEFORE COVID. THAT
10:21AM 4 MAIN CLIENT WAS BOUGHT OUT BY A VENTURE CAPITAL FIRM CAUSING
10:21AM 5 HER TO LOSE HER BUSINESS AND THAT MAIN SOURCE OF INCOME.
10:21AM 6 SHE WAS SCRAMBLING TO SAVE THAT BUSINESS, BUT UNBEKNOWNST
10:21AM 7 TO HER THE SHUTDOWN WAS COMING, AND HER EFFORTS TO DOUBLE DOWN
10:21AM 8 AND SAVE THAT BUSINESS WERE IN VAIN. SHE INCURRED ADDITIONAL
10:21AM 9 FINANCIAL DEBTS.
10:21AM 10 I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE COURT CONSIDER THE
10:21AM 11 CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH SHE COMMITTED THE OFFENSE AND THE
10:21AM 12 ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH SHE COMMITTED THE OFFENSE. THE COVID-19
10:21AM 13 PANDEMIC WAS GOING ON AT THAT TIME. IT WAS JUST NOT A NORMAL
10:22AM 14 TIME. INDIVIDUALS WERE BEING BOMBARDED WITH ADVERTISEMENTS.
10:22AM 15 IT BECAME ALMOST A COTTAGE INDUSTRY OF ADVERTISERS SOLICITING
10:22AM 16 PEOPLE, TELLING THEM, DID YOU HAVE A BUSINESS? WAS YOUR
10:22AM 17 BUSINESS AFFECTED BY COVID? YOU HAVE MONEY COMING TO YOU, YOU
10:22AM 18 HAVE MONEY COMING TO YOU.
10:22AM 19 THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE OR JUSTIFY HER CONDUCT, BUT IT
10:22AM 20 EXPLAINS THE FULL CONTEXT OF IT. MOST OF US WERE LIVING IN OUR
10:22AM 21 HOMES. IT WAS JUST NOT THE NORMAL SOCIETY THAT WE WOULD
10:22AM 22 NORMALLY LIVE IN AT THAT TIME. AND SOME OF THOSE SOCIETAL
10:22AM 23 NORMS, THAT WOULD BE THE SORT OF BARRIERS TO PEOPLE MAKING SUCH
10:22AM 24 POOR DECISIONS WEREN'T IN PLACE.
10:22AM 25 AND ON TOP OF THAT, MY CLIENT WAS DRINKING TO EXCESS AT
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10:22AM 1 THE TIME. WE DON'T CONTEND THAT HER DRINKING ROSE TO THE LEVEL
10:22AM 2 OF NOT KNOWING WHAT SHE WAS DOING. SHE KNEW FULL WELL WHAT SHE
10:22AM 3 WAS DOING.
10:22AM 4 I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE HOW WE GOT HERE.
10:22AM 5 MS. DARNALL CAME BY WAY OF A TARGET LETTER. SHE WAIVED
10:22AM 6 INDICTMENT. SHE AVOIDED THE GOVERNMENT THE LABOR OF GOING TO A
10:23AM 7 GRAND JURY AND OBTAINING AN INDICTMENT, AND SHE HAS RESOLVED
10:23AM 8 HER CASE RATHER QUICKLY.
10:23AM 9 NOW, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COURT TO CONSIDER
10:23AM 10 THE FORFEITURE IN RELATION TO THE CRIMINAL, THE CRIMINAL
10:23AM 11 FORFEITURE IN RELATION TO WHAT IS A REASONABLE AND APPROPRIATE
10:23AM 12 SENTENCE HERE.
10:23AM 13 HERE, THE GOVERNMENT'S REQUEST IS FOR A SENTENCE OF
10:23AM 14 41 MONTHS ON -- IN ADDITION TO THAT RESTITUTION. RESTITUTION
10:23AM 15 IS MANDATORY. THE GOVERNMENT'S RESTITUTION AMOUNT THEY'RE
10:23AM 16 SEEKING IS ABOUT 3 MILLION, INCLUDING INTEREST.
10:23AM 17 THE DEFENSE REQUEST WILL AT SOME POINT, AND WE WILL
10:23AM 18 DISCUSS THAT AT A LATER POINT, WILL PROBABLY BE A LITTLE
10:23AM 19 WITHOUT THE INTEREST.
10:23AM 20 HOWEVER, IT IS CRITICAL TO THE COURT'S CONSIDERATION OF
10:23AM 21 WHAT IS A REASONABLE AND APPROPRIATE SENTENCE TO PUNISH HER AND
10:23AM 22 DETER HER FROM THIS FUTURE CONDUCT THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS
10:23AM 23 SEEKING A MONETARY JUDGMENT.
10:23AM 24 THAT MONETARY JUDGMENT ON TOP OF THE RESTITUTION BY MY
10:23AM 25 CALCULATION RESULTS IN ABOUT 4.2 MILLION. THAT IS THE MONETARY
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10:24AM 1 SANCTION AND PENALTY THAT SHE WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH EITHER BY
10:24AM 2 WAY OF RESTITUTION OR A MONEY JUDGMENT. THAT WILL BE IN PLACE
10:24AM 3 FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS OF HER LIFE.
10:24AM 4 MS. WILL-DARNALL HAS PAID A VERY HIGH PRICE FOR HER
10:24AM 5 CONDUCT, AND SHE WILL IN THE FUTURE. THAT AMOUNT -- HERE, THE
10:24AM 6 MAXIMUM FINE PERMITTED UNDER THE STATUTE IS $250,000. THE ONE
10:24AM 7 POINT -- THE 2.8 MILLION MONETARY PENALTY REPRESENTS A
10:24AM 8 1,000 PERCENT INCREASE OVER THE HIGHEST FINE THAT THE COURT MAY
10:24AM 9 IMPOSE HERE.
10:24AM 10 I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR FOR THE COURT TO
10:24AM 11 CONSIDER WITH RESPECT TO WHETHER -- WHAT ACTUAL SENTENCE IS
10:24AM 12 NECESSARY TO DETER HER, PUNISH HER, AND PROVOKE RESPECT FOR THE
10:24AM 13 LAW. I SUBMIT THAT A SENTENCE OF HOME CONFINEMENT WITH SUCH
10:24AM 14 SIGNIFICANT MONETARY PENALTIES THAT WILL COST HER DEARLY IS A
10:24AM 15 SUFFICIENT PUNISHMENT.
10:24AM 16 NOW, ORDINARILY THIS WOULD BE AN ACADEMIC PURSUIT TO ENTER
10:25AM 17 THESE MONEY JUDGMENTS, BUT WE KNOW THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE
10:25AM 18 BECAUSE -- LET'S SPEAK THAT TRUTH. THE TRUTH IS ANTICIPATED
10:25AM 19 THAT AT SOME POINT MS. WILL-DARNALL MAY COME TO ACQUIRE INHERIT
10:25AM 20 PROCEEDS FROM HER MOTHER. AND THOSE PROCEEDS, I ASSUME THE
10:25AM 21 GOVERNMENT WILL AGGRESSIVELY SEEK AND GO AFTER THOSE TO SATISFY
10:25AM 22 THIS MONEY JUDGMENT AS WELL AS THE RESTITUTION.
10:25AM 23 SO THAT FINANCIAL OBLIGATION IS NOT A THEORETICAL
10:25AM 24 OBLIGATION. I SUBMIT IT'S A REAL PENALTY THAT SHE WILL HAVE TO
10:25AM 25 INCUR AS A RESULT OF THIS OFFENSE, AND I THINK THE COURT SHOULD
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10:25AM 1 FACTOR THAT IN IN DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT A SENTENCE OF, AS
10:25AM 2 THE GOVERNMENT REQUESTED 41 MONTHS, IS NECESSARY OR WHETHER A
10:25AM 3 CUSTODIAL TERM IS NECESSARY GIVEN THE SIGNIFICANT HIT SHE IS
10:25AM 4 GOING TO INCUR FROM THIS FINANCIAL PENALTY, THE FINANCIAL
10:25AM 5 PENALTY ON TOP OF THE RESTITUTION. SHE WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY
10:25AM 6 BACK 50 PERCENT MORE, ONE AND A HALF TIMES MORE THAN SHE
10:25AM 7 RECEIVED FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
10:26AM 8 ADDITIONALLY, YOUR HONOR, AS WE NOTED IN OUR PAPERS, THERE
10:26AM 9 ARE SEVERAL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THE COURT MAY WANT TO
10:26AM 10 CONSIDER. HER FAMILIAL RESPONSIBILITIES ARE CONSIDERABLE. BY
10:26AM 11 ALL ACCOUNTS, SHE'S AN EXTRAORDINARY MOTHER. SHE'S AN
10:26AM 12 EXTRAORDINARY AND LOVING MOTHER.
10:26AM 13 AT THE TIME OF HER LIFE WHEN SHE COMMITTED THIS, SHE WAS
10:26AM 14 GOING THROUGH A PRETTY ROUGH PATCH. SHE WAS DEALING WITH A LOT
10:26AM 15 OF STRESSORS. THOSE FAMILY OBLIGATIONS AND HER ELDERLY MOTHER
10:26AM 16 AND HER MOTHER'S HEALTH CONDITIONS, AS WE HAVE RAISED WITH THE
10:26AM 17 COURT, WE THINK WOULD SUGGEST THAT A SENTENCE OF HOME
10:26AM 18 CONFINEMENT WITH THOSE SIGNIFICANT MONETARY PENALTIES IS A
10:26AM 19 SIGNIFICANT PUNISHMENT.
10:26AM 20 BUT WITH THAT, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD PERMIT THE INDIVIDUALS
10:26AM 21 WHO WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COURT TO ADDRESS THE COURT AT THIS
10:26AM 22 TIME.
10:26AM 23 THE COURT: YES. THAT'S APPROPRIATE.
10:26AM 24 LET ME ASK PROBATION ONE QUESTION, AND THIS WAS THE ISSUE
10:26AM 25 THAT YOU RAISED, AND I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM PROBATION
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10:26AM 1 WHETHER THERE'S A CHANGE IN PROBATION'S RECOMMENDATION IN TERMS
10:26AM 2 OF THE DEGREE OF VARIANCE GIVEN THE CHANGE IN CALCULATIONS THAT
10:27AM 3 WE'VE MADE AS TO THE GUIDELINES?
10:27AM 4 PROBATION OFFICER: YOUR HONOR, OUR RECOMMENDATION
10:27AM 5 WOULD REMAIN THE SAME. WE CAREFULLY CONSIDERED ALL FACTORS
10:27AM 6 WHEN MAKING -- WHEN COMING UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION.
10:27AM 7 I WOULD LEAVE IT AT 24 MONTHS.
10:27AM 8 THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU.
10:27AM 9 PROBATION OFFICER: YEAH.
10:27AM 10 THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU. CERTAINLY I'M HAPPY
10:27AM 11 TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF
10:27AM 12 MS. WILL-DARNALL.
10:28AM 13 MRS. WILL: MY NAME IS SANDRA WILL.
10:28AM 14 NOW?
10:28AM 15 THE COURT: YES. PLEASE GO AHEAD, MRS. WILL.
10:28AM 16 MRS. WILL: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. MY NAME IS
10:28AM 17 SANDRA WILL. CASSIE IS MY DAUGHTER. I NEVER IMAGINED THAT AT
10:28AM 18 86 YEARS OLD I WOULD BE STANDING HERE TODAY BEGGING FOR
10:28AM 19 COMPASSION FOR MY DAUGHTER, BUT I AM.
10:28AM 20 I AM FACING THE LOSS OF MY HOME AND MOST PAINFULLY THE
10:28AM 21 POSSIBLE LOSS OF MY ONLY CHILD, CASSIE, TO PRISON.
10:28AM 22 CASSIE IS NOT ONLY MY CAREGIVER, AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE
10:28AM 23 SHE IS MY ONLY CAREGIVER AND SURVIVING FAMILY MEMBER. SHE IS
10:28AM 24 MY LIFELINE.
10:28AM 25 MY HEALTH IS FRAGILE. I LIVE WITH AGING COGNITIVE
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10:29AM 1 DECLINE, HEARING LOSS, AND WORSENING MACULAR DEGENERATION AMONG
10:29AM 2 OTHER COMMON AGE RELATED ISSUES. EACH DAY IT BECOMES HARDER TO
10:29AM 3 FUNCTION ON MY OWN. I DEPEND ON CASSIE NOT JUST FOR EVERY DAY
10:29AM 4 TASKS, INCLUDING READING THE DOCUMENTS AND BILLS, USING
10:29AM 5 TECHNOLOGY AND THE PHONE, ORGANIZING AND ATTENDING DOCTOR
10:29AM 6 MEETINGS AND MEDICINES AND KEEPING ME SAFE, BUT ALSO FOR
10:29AM 7 EMOTIONAL SUPPORT.
10:29AM 8 I DON'T KNOW HOW I WOULD IMAGINE MY DAILY LIFE, AND YET
10:29AM 9 THE PROSECUTION HAS TREATED ME AS IF I WERE A CRIMINAL. THEY
10:29AM 10 HAVE ACCUSED ME OF CONSPIRING WITH MY DAUGHTER, EVEN OF MASTER
10:29AM 11 MINDING A REAL ESTATE SCHEME AT MY AGE. THESE ACCUSATIONS ARE
10:30AM 12 FALSE, AND THEY HAVE DEVASTATED ME.
10:30AM 13 I'VE SPENT OVER $65,000 TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF AND TO
10:30AM 14 HOLD ON TO THE HOME MY HUSBAND AND I BOUGHT ON A TEACHER'S
10:30AM 15 SALARY 40 YEARS AGO.
10:30AM 16 IN MAY OF THIS YEAR I RECEIVED A DOCUMENT DELIVERED BY THE
10:30AM 17 MAILMAN THAT I HAD TO VACATE MY HOME IN 60 DAYS. FORECLOSURE
10:30AM 18 WITHOUT WARNING AND WITHOUT ANY CAUSE. I DIDN'T COMMIT A
10:30AM 19 CRIME.
10:30AM 20 ANYWAY, CASSIE IS NOT MY -- IS NOT ONLY MY CAREGIVER, BUT
10:30AM 21 A DEVOTED MOTHER TO HER 11-YEAR-OLD SON. SHE HAS SELDOM MISSED
10:30AM 22 A SCHOOL EVENT OR A LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL GAME OR A CHANCE TO
10:30AM 23 BE THERE FOR HIM. THAT IS WHO SHE TRULY IS, NOT THE PERSON THE
10:31AM 24 PROSECUTION HAS TRIED TO PORTRAY.
10:31AM 25 CASSIE IS KIND, EMPATHETIC, AND COMPASSIONATE. SHE HAS A
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10:31AM 1 GIFT FOR CALMNESS AND FOR EASING MY FEARS WITH HUMOR AND
10:31AM 2 WARMTH. SHE IS DEEPLY LOVED BY HER MANY FRIENDS AND EXTENDED
10:31AM 3 EAST COAST RELATIVES.
10:31AM 4 SHE HAS ADMITTED HER MISTAKE, AND SHE CARRIES THE WEIGHT
10:31AM 5 OF IT EVERY DAY.
10:31AM 6 BUT TAKING HER FROM ME AND FROM HER SON WOULD NOT JUST
10:31AM 7 PUNISH HER, IT WOULD DESTROY US.
10:31AM 8 YOUR HONOR, I GAVE 50 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING IN PUBLIC
10:31AM 9 EDUCATION. I RETIRED AT 80 YEARS OLD. MY HUSBAND AND I RAISED
10:31AM 10 OUR FAMILY WITH INTEGRITY AND HAVE GIVEN BACK TO MY COMMUNITY.
10:31AM 11 NEVER DID I IMAGINE THAT MY FINAL YEARS -- EXCUSE ME -- WOULD
10:32AM 12 BE SPENT IN FEAR, FEAR OF SPENDING MY FINAL DAYS, MONTHS, OR
10:32AM 13 YEARS ALONE AND FACING THE LOSS OF THE ONLY CHILD I HAVE.
10:32AM 14 I AM PLEADING WITH YOU, PLEASE DON'T TAKE CASSIE AWAY FROM
10:32AM 15 ME AND FROM NICK. SOME DAY MY COMMENTS WILL BE A FADING MEMORY
10:32AM 16 TO MOST OF YOU, BUT NICK WILL RELIVE THIS DAY OFTEN, AND I HOPE
10:32AM 17 HE DOES WITH GRATITUDE AND RESPECT.
10:32AM 18 FRANKLY, I'M AFRAID. I'M TRULY AFRAID. I DON'T HAVE
10:32AM 19 ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD. I HAVE NO LIVING FAMILY LEFT EXCEPT
10:32AM 20 NICK AND CASSIE. I KNOW MY HEALTH WILL CONTINUE TO DECLINE,
10:32AM 21 AND I'M DEEPLY AFRAID OF WHAT THAT MEANS. THE THOUGHT OF BEING
10:32AM 22 ISOLATED WITH NO SUPPORT IS OVERWHELMING. I NEED MY DAUGHTER.
10:33AM 23 SHE IS MY PRIMARY SOURCE OF STRENGTH, COMFORT, AND CARE.
10:33AM 24 WITHOUT HER I WOULD BE LEFT PRETTY MUCH ALONE IN A FACILITY
10:33AM 25 WITH A PAID CAREGIVER.
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10:33AM 1 PLEASE, YOUR HONOR, I'M ASKING NOT JUST FOR HUMAN
10:33AM 2 COMPASSION, BUT FOR SURVIVAL. I CANNOT DO THIS ALONE AND NICK
10:33AM 3 SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS ALONE.
10:33AM 4 IF THERE IS ANY WAY FOR CASSIE TO MAKE AMENDS WHILE STILL
10:33AM 5 BEING HERE TO CARE FOR US, I BEG YOU TO GRANT IT. THANK YOU.
10:33AM 6 THE COURT: THANK YOU, MRS. WILL.
10:33AM 7 MR. FULLER: AND THE OTHER INDIVIDUAL?
10:33AM 8 MS. MOOMJIAN: HI, YOUR HONOR. MY NAME IS
10:34AM 9 ESTHER MOOMJIAN. I'M A LONG-TIME FRIEND OF CASSIE AND SANDRA.
10:34AM 10 I JUST WANT TO START OFF BY SAYING, YES, A CRIME WAS
10:34AM 11 COMMITTED, A MISTAKE WAS MADE. BUT WE'RE ALSO ALL HUMAN
10:34AM 12 BEINGS. AND I THINK OFTENTIMES IN SOCIETY WE OVERLOOK THE
10:34AM 13 HUMANITY IN EACH OTHER, AND THAT'S WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN
10:34AM 14 HUMAN TO HUMAN, HEART TO HEART.
10:34AM 15 THIS SEEMS REALLY HARSH. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT
10:35AM 16 OF SANDRA. I ACTUALLY LIVE WITH SANDRA, BUT I AM NOT HER
10:35AM 17 CARETAKER. I AM NEVER HOME. I HAVE A COMPLETELY SEPARATE
10:35AM 18 LIFE, AND I HAVE WITNESSED THE DECLINE AND THE SUFFERING THAT
10:35AM 19 SHE HAS GONE THROUGH, AND IT'S BEEN HEART BREAKING. IT'S BEEN
10:35AM 20 CHALLENGING.
10:35AM 21 SHE, HONESTLY, WILL NOT SURVIVE IF THIS IS A LONG-TERM
10:35AM 22 IMPACT.
10:35AM 23 IT IS TRUE, CASSIE HAS BEEN HER PRIMARY CARETAKER. SHE'S
10:35AM 24 BEEN VERY PATIENT, MORE PATIENT THAN I COULD BE.
10:35AM 25 I THINK REMOVING CASSIE FROM HER MOTHER AND HER SON WILL
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10:35AM 1 HAVE LASTING IMPACT. EVEN THOUGH HER SON IS 11 YEARS OLD, SHE
10:35AM 2 IS HIS ROCK. SHE IS HIS EMOTIONAL SUPPORT. SHE IS HIS SAFE
10:36AM 3 PLACE. SHE'S A GOOD MOTHER. SHE'S NEVER MISSED ANY EVENTS.
10:36AM 4 SHE GOES TO -- TAKES HIM TO SCHOOL, SHE FEEDS HIM, SHE CARES
10:36AM 5 FOR HIM. THE THINGS THAT THESE DOCUMENTS WERE SAYING ABOUT
10:36AM 6 HER, COMPLETE LIES, FABRICATION, EXAGGERATION, UNNECESSARY.
10:36AM 7 IT'S UNNECESSARY. UNNECESSARY.
10:36AM 8 AND SHOW ME A PERSON THAT HASN'T MADE A MISTAKE IN THEIR
10:36AM 9 LIVES. WE PUNISH OURSELVES. CASSIE HAS BEEN PUNISHING HERSELF
10:36AM 10 EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'VE WITNESSED IT. I'VE LIVED BY HER. I'VE
10:36AM 11 SEEN IT.
10:36AM 12 SHE HAS A GOOD ATTITUDE. SHE'S IN ACCEPTANCE. SHE HAS
10:36AM 13 OWNED HER CRIME, BUT SHE'S BEEN LIVING IN ETERNAL PRISON
10:36AM 14 BECAUSE SHE KNOWS THAT THIS POOR DECISION IS IMPACTING THOSE
10:36AM 15 CLOSEST TO HER.
10:36AM 16 SHE'S MY BEST FRIEND. I'VE KNOWN HER FOR OVER 25 YEARS.
10:36AM 17 SHE'S NOT NEGLECTFUL. SHE'S NOT ABUSING DRUGS OR ALCOHOL.
10:37AM 18 IT'S ALL ABSURD.
10:37AM 19 SHE TOOK OUT A LOAN. SHE DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY. SHE DIDN'T
10:37AM 20 PHYSICALLY HURT ANYBODY. SHE MADE A MISTAKE DURING A VERY
10:37AM 21 TUMULTUOUS TIME WHEN THE WORLD WAS NOT RIGHT, PEOPLE WERE NOT
10:37AM 22 RIGHT. NOBODY WAS THINKING RIGHT. WE WERE BEING BRAIN WASHED
10:37AM 23 AND CONDITIONED EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY.
10:37AM 24 SO I ASK YOU, YOUR HONOR, THAT YOU MAY FIND COMPASSION AND
10:37AM 25 FIND THE LEAST IMPACTFUL SENTENCING FOR THE BEST AND THE
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10:37AM 1 HIGHEST GOOD OF EVERY HUMAN INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS, FOR HER
10:37AM 2 MOTHER, FOR HER SON, FOR ME, FOR CASSIE, AND THE COMMUNITY.
10:37AM 3 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
10:37AM 4 THE COURT: THANK YOU.
10:38AM 5 (PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)
10:38AM 6 THE DEFENDANT: YOUR HONOR, MY NAME IS
10:38AM 7 CASSIE WILL-DARNALL. I'M 53 YEARS OLD. I'M FROM THE BAY AREA.
10:38AM 8 I WAS BORN IN SAN JOSE AND RAISED IN LOS GATOS.
10:38AM 9 I WENT TO LEE HIGH SCHOOL AND I WENT TO SAN DIEGO STATE
10:38AM 10 FOR MY UNDERGRAD AND SAN CLARA UNIVERSITY FOR GRADUATE SCHOOL.
10:38AM 11 I'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER. WHEN I
10:38AM 12 WAS 12 YEARS OLD I HAD A CAR WASH.
10:38AM 13 WHEN I WAS 28 YEARS OLD I OPENED MY FIRST BUSINESS,
10:38AM 14 SYLVAN LEARNING CENTER. BY THE TIME I SOLD THE CENTERS THERE
10:38AM 15 WERE THREE. I HAVE A TEACHING DEGREE, AND I'VE TAUGHT SCHOOLS
10:38AM 16 RECENTLY UP UNTIL WHEN THIS CASE STARTED.
10:38AM 17 BUT I STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY WITH REMORSE, DEEP REMORSE
10:38AM 18 AND A MUCH CLEARER PERSPECTIVE ON THE CHOICES THAT BROUGHT ME
10:39AM 19 HERE.
10:39AM 20 LOOKING BACK, I CAN SEE THAT I WASN'T MAKING RATIONAL
10:39AM 21 DECISIONS. I WAS REACTING TO OVERWHELMING CHAOS IN MY LIFE,
10:39AM 22 AND I FAILED TO CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY ACTIONS.
10:39AM 23 PEOPLE IN THEIR FIFTIES WITH CHILDREN AND A BUSINESS THAT
10:39AM 24 THEY'VE WORKED VERY HARD, YEARS TO BUILD, SUDDENLY DON'T DECIDE
10:39AM 25 TO BECOME CRIMINALS. THAT'S NEVER WHO I WAS.
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10:39AM 1 WHAT HAPPENED WAS A RESULT OF BEING PUSHED BEYOND MY
10:39AM 2 BREAKING POINT. AT THE TIME I WAS IN A HIGH CONFLICT DIVORCE.
10:39AM 3 I WAS ACTUALLY LATER DIAGNOSED WITH PTSD AS A DIRECT RESULT. I
10:39AM 4 DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THE TOLL IT WAS TAKING ON ME, BUT IT LEFT
10:39AM 5 ME DRAINED AND VULNERABLE.
10:39AM 6 IN 2019 MY BUSINESS PARTNER ABANDONED ME. DESPITE SIGNING
10:39AM 7 A CONTRACT TO SHARE HALF OF OUR DEBT, SHE LEFT ME WITH MORE
10:39AM 8 THAN A MILLION DOLLARS IN LOANS SECURED AGAINST MY HOME AND
10:39AM 9 PLUS ANOTHER HALF MILLION IN LEGAL FEES FROM A BROKEN LEASE.
10:40AM 10 ON TOP OF THAT, I ALREADY HAD INVESTED HEAVILY IN
10:40AM 11 INVENTORY FOR MY COMPANY. WE HAD A CONTRACT WITH APPLE. THAT
10:40AM 12 CONTRACT WAS SET TO BEGIN MARCH 2020. IT WAS WORTH OVER
10:40AM 13 $5 MILLION. IT WAS GOING TO TAKE MY BUSINESS TO THE NEXT
10:40AM 14 LEVEL.
10:40AM 15 AND THEN COVID HIT AND PRACTICALLY OVERNIGHT THAT CONTRACT
10:40AM 16 DISSOLVED, MY BUSINESS COLLAPSED, AND THE COMPANY I POURED
10:40AM 17 EVERYTHING INTO WAS GONE. I WAS LEFT WITH LAWSUITS, CRUSHING
10:40AM 18 DEBT, AND NO INCOME.
10:40AM 19 IN THAT DESPERATION I MADE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE. I APPLIED
10:40AM 20 FOR A LOAN I WASN'T QUALIFIED FOR. AT THE TIME I CONVINCED
10:40AM 21 MYSELF IT WAS TEMPORARY, THAT IF ANYONE FOUND OUT, I COULD
10:40AM 22 RESOLVE IT. I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT AS A CRIME. LOOKING BACK, I
10:40AM 23 SEE HOW RECKLESS AND IGNORANT THAT WAS.
10:40AM 24 NO ONE WOULD KNOWINGLY RISK THEIR FAMILY AND THEIR FREEDOM
10:40AM 25 AND THEIR FUTURE OVER A SHORT TERM LOAN. THE FACT THAT I DID
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10:40AM 1 THAT SHOWS HOW FAR MY JUDGMENT HAD BROKEN DOWN UNDER THE
10:41AM 2 STRESS. BUT THE GREATEST HARM IS NOT TO ME, IT'S TO MY FAMILY.
10:41AM 3 YOU HEARD FROM HER. AND I DO SUPPORT HER.
10:41AM 4 MY 11-YEAR-OLD SON ALSO DEPENDS ON ME. HE DOES HAVE OCD,
10:41AM 5 AND HIS STABILITY IS CRITICAL TO HIS MENTAL HEALTH. I AM ONE
10:41AM 6 OF THE PRIMARY SOURCES OF STRUCTURE AND SUPPORT, AND I FEAR FOR
10:41AM 7 WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I WAS NOT AROUND FOR HIM.
10:41AM 8 I'M NOT ASKING TO BE EXCUSED. I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. I
10:41AM 9 HAVE ALREADY LOST MY CAREER, MY FINANCIAL SECURITY, THE HOME I
10:41AM 10 INHERITED FROM MY FATHER, AND I'LL SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE
10:41AM 11 MAKING RESTITUTION.
10:41AM 12 I ASK FOR COMPASSION AND THE CHANCE TO SERVE MY SENTENCE
10:41AM 13 AT HOME WHERE I COULD CONTINUE TO TAKE CARE OF MY MOTHER AND
10:41AM 14 SON. INCARCERATION WOULD NOT ONLY PUNISH ME, IT WOULD PUNISH
10:41AM 15 TWO VULNERABLE PEOPLE.
10:41AM 16 IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE NEVER SEEING MY MOTHER AGAIN. I HAVE
10:41AM 17 NO PRIOR RECORD. I POSE NO DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY. WHAT I DO
10:42AM 18 HAVE IS A DETERMINATION TO REBUILD MY LIFE WITH HONESTY AND
10:42AM 19 INTEGRITY AND USE MY EXPERIENCE TO HELP OTHERS. I MADE A
10:42AM 20 MISTAKE, AND I WILL REGRET THAT FOREVER.
10:42AM 21 I JUST ASK YOU FOR YOUR COMPASSION TODAY. THANK YOU.
10:42AM 22 THE COURT: THANK YOU.
10:42AM 23 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, THE DEFENSE -- I WANT TO
10:42AM 24 HAVE SOME REMARKS ABOUT THE DEFENSE SENTENCING REQUEST.
10:42AM 25 THE DEFENSE SENTENCING REQUEST, AS WE HAVE FILED IN OUR
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10:42AM 1 PAPERS, IS GENERAL CONFINEMENT ONLY, ALTERNATIVELY A SENTENCE
10:42AM 2 OF 12 MONTHS AND 1 DAY. WE WOULD STAND BY THAT REQUEST.
10:42AM 3 I THINK THE STATEMENTS OF MY CLIENT AS WELL AS HER MOTHER
10:42AM 4 AND FRIEND RAISE ONE OF THE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE COURT
10:42AM 5 IN IMPOSING SENTENCE, WHICH IS THE SORT OF COLLATERAL
10:42AM 6 CONSEQUENCES THAT SHE HAS ALREADY INCURRED BECAUSE OF HER
10:42AM 7 CONDUCT.
10:42AM 8 IT IS NO DOUBT AN INCREDIBLY PAINFUL THING THAT NOT ONLY
10:43AM 9 DID HER POOR DECISION MAKING IS GOING TO AFFECT HER OWN
10:43AM 10 FINANCIAL FUTURE BUT THAT IT HAS UNNECESSARILY INVOLVED HER
10:43AM 11 MOTHER.
10:43AM 12 MY CLIENT'S MOTHER HAD NO PART IN APPLYING FOR THOSE
10:43AM 13 LOANS. HOWEVER, SHE NOW HAS HAD TO PAY A FINANCIAL COST
10:43AM 14 BECAUSE OF MY CLIENT'S CONDUCT, AND THAT SITS HEAVILY WITH HER
10:43AM 15 AS THE COURT CAN SEE.
10:43AM 16 AND WITH THAT, I WOULD RESERVE ANY REMARKS UNTIL AFTER THE
10:43AM 17 GOVERNMENT COUNSEL.
10:43AM 18 THE COURT: OKAY. LET ME ASK A QUESTION OF BOTH
10:43AM 19 COUNSEL AND PROBATION.
10:43AM 20 WHAT IS THE SCOPE OF MY AUTHORITY HERE TO REQUIRE THAT A
10:43AM 21 PARTIAL -- THAT PART OF THE TERM OF IMPRISONMENT BE SERVED IN
10:43AM 22 THE BUREAU OF PRISONS AND THAT PART BE SERVED IN HOME
10:43AM 23 CONFINEMENT?
10:43AM 24 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, 3553, THE COURT HAS FULL
10:43AM 25 DISCRETION. IF THE COURT WANTED TO SENTENCE HER TO PROBATION,
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10:43AM 1 THE COURT MAY DO SO. THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES ARE MERELY
10:44AM 2 ADVISORY. WE KNOW THAT FROM GULL, WE KNOW THAT FROM BOOKER,
10:44AM 3 BECAUSE OF THE SENTENCES THAT WERE IMPOSED IN THERE, WHICH WERE
10:44AM 4 EXTRAORDINARY VARIANCES FROM THE GUIDELINE RANGE.
10:44AM 5 THE COURT: WELL, I GUESS THE QUESTION I'M -- WHAT
10:44AM 6 IS THE SCOPE -- YOU KNOW, DO I HAVE THE POWER TO SAY A CERTAIN
10:44AM 7 AMOUNT OF THIS TIME WILL BE SERVED IN THE BUREAU OF PRISONS AND
10:44AM 8 A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THE TIME WILL BE SERVED ON HOME
10:44AM 9 CONFINEMENT?
10:44AM 10 MR. FULLER: YES, YOUR HONOR, YOU CAN DO THAT. YOU
10:44AM 11 MAY ORDER A SPLIT TERM UNDER YOUR AUTHORITY UNDER 3553 TO
10:44AM 12 IMPOSE A CUSTODIAL COMPONENT AND IMPOSE A COMPONENT THAT IS
10:44AM 13 HOME CONFINEMENT.
10:44AM 14 THE COURT MAY DO THAT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE COURT WERE TO
10:44AM 15 SENTENCE HER TO A TERM OF IMPRISONMENT AND THEN THEREAFTER
10:44AM 16 REQUIRE AS A CONDITION OF SUPERVISED RELEASE THAT SHE SERVE A
10:44AM 17 PERIOD OF HOME CONFINEMENT, THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE
10:44AM 18 SENTENCE.
10:44AM 19 THE COURT: WHAT DOES THE GOVERNMENT -- DO YOU HAVE
10:45AM 20 AN UNDERSTANDING OF THAT?
10:45AM 21 MR. JAMES: MY UNDERSTANDING UNDER THE GUIDELINES IS
10:45AM 22 THAT BECAUSE THE OFFENSE LEVEL FALLS WITHIN ZONE D OF THE
10:45AM 23 SENTENCING TABLE, THAT THE MINIMUM RANGE RECOMMENDED BY THE
10:45AM 24 GUIDELINES IS TO BE SERVED IN ACTUAL CUSTODIAL IMPRISONMENT.
10:45AM 25 I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH THE DEFENSE COUNSEL, HOWEVER, WHEN
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10:45AM 1 HE REPRESENTS THAT THE TERM OF SUPERVISED RELEASE WHICH MAY
10:45AM 2 FOLLOW MAY HAVE AS A CONDITION HOME CONFINEMENT.
10:45AM 3 MR. FULLER: I THINK THE KEY TO THE COURT'S -- A KEY
10:45AM 4 TO THE GOVERNMENT'S RECITATION THERE IS RECOMMENDED.
10:45AM 5 THE COURT: RIGHT. BUT I GUESS THE -- BUT THE
10:45AM 6 SCOPE, FOR WHATEVER -- TO THE EXTENT THAT I IMPOSE A TERM OF
10:45AM 7 IMPRISONMENT, THAT WOULD BE SERVED IN THE BUREAU OF PRISONS AND
10:45AM 8 THEN IF I WANTED TO IMPOSE HOME CONFINEMENT THAT WOULD HAVE TO
10:45AM 9 BE -- LET ME ASK PROBATION.
10:45AM 10 PROBATION OFFICER: THAT IS CORRECT, YOUR HONOR.
10:45AM 11 THE WAY DEFENSE COUNSEL EXPLAINED IT, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A
10:45AM 12 TERM OF IMPRISONMENT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER TERM THAT IS.
10:46AM 13 AND THEN AS PART OF SUPERVISED RELEASE, HOME CONFINEMENT.
10:46AM 14 THE COURT: OKAY.
10:46AM 15 MR. FULLER: ADDITIONALLY, YOUR HONOR, THERE IS THE
10:46AM 16 OPTION OF INTERMITTENT CONFINEMENT. IF THE COURT WERE TO
10:46AM 17 SENTENCE HER TO -- AND INTERMITTENT CONFINEMENT, I MEAN A
10:46AM 18 HALFWAY HOUSE. IF THE COURT WERE TO SENTENCE HER TO A PERIOD
10:46AM 19 OF TIME IN THE SAN FRANCISCO HALFWAY HOUSE AS A CUSTODIAL
10:46AM 20 COMPONENT, THE COURT MAY DO THAT AS WELL AND MAY DO THAT AS A
10:46AM 21 CONDITION OF SUPERVISED RELEASE AND MAY FASHION WHATEVER
10:46AM 22 SENTENCE, WHATEVER PORTION OF THE COURT'S ORDER WOULD BE AS TO
10:46AM 23 CUSTODY AT THE HALFWAY HOUSE AND IN HOME CONFINEMENT.
10:46AM 24 THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU.
10:46AM 25 IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THE GOVERNMENT WANTED TO OFFER?
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10:46AM 1 MR. JAMES: AS TO THE INTERMITTENT CONFINEMENT
10:46AM 2 REMARK, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM AN UNRELATED CASE BEFORE
10:46AM 3 JUDGE DAVILA IS THAT THERE ARE NOT RESOURCES IN THIS DISTRICT
10:46AM 4 TO DO INTERMITTENT CONFINEMENT AS THAT WORD TYPICALLY
10:47AM 5 REPRESENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE WEEKEND TIME OR SOMETHING LIKE
10:47AM 6 THAT, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS NECESSARILY WHAT DEFENSE COUNSEL
10:47AM 7 IS ASKING FOR, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE THE COURT AWARE OF THAT.
10:47AM 8 IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE REMARKS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE ON
10:47AM 9 BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT, IT IS COMPELLING REMARKS FROM
10:47AM 10 MS. WILL-DARNALL'S FAMILY. THEY ARE DEEPLY, DEEPLY MOVING.
10:47AM 11 BUT I MUST CONFESS THAT THEY MOVE THE GOVERNMENT TO, IF
10:47AM 12 ANYTHING, GREATER ANGER, BECAUSE MS. WILL-DARNALL KNEW THAT SHE
10:47AM 13 HAD A NEEDY MOTHER WHO WAS RELYING ON HER WHEN SHE COMMITTED
10:47AM 14 THIS CRIME. MS. WILL-DARNALL KNEW THAT SHE HAD A SON WHO WAS
10:47AM 15 RELYING ON HER WHEN SHE COMMITTED THIS CRIME, AND SHE KNEW THAT
10:47AM 16 THE CONSEQUENCE OF STEALING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAD TO BE THAT
10:47AM 17 SHE WOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM AND THAT SHE WOULD SERVE TIME
10:48AM 18 IN PRISON, AND YET SHE STOLE THE MONEY ANYWAY.
10:48AM 19 MS. WILL-DARNALL KNEW THAT WHEN SHE GAVE MONEY TO HER
10:48AM 20 MOTHER THAT WAS THE PRODUCT OF FRAUD, THAT SHE WAS GOING TO
10:48AM 21 FURTHER HARM HER MOTHER AS A RESULT OF HER CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
10:48AM 22 SHE HAD TO HAVE KNOWN THAT.
10:48AM 23 THE DEFENDANT: NO, I DIDN'T.
10:48AM 24 MR. JAMES: I APPRECIATE MS. WILL-DARNALL'S
10:48AM 25 STATEMENT THAT SHE FAILED TO FULLY CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES OF
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10:48AM 1 HER ACTIONS. THAT MUCH IS EVIDENT.
10:48AM 2 BUT HER FAILURE TO CONSIDER THOSE CONSEQUENCES DOES NOT
10:48AM 3 GRANT HER RELIEF FROM THOSE CONSEQUENCES.
10:48AM 4 WITH THAT IN MIND AND FOR ALL OF THE REASONS PREVIOUSLY
10:48AM 5 PRESENTED TO THE COURT, BOTH IN WRITING AND ORALLY, THE
10:48AM 6 GOVERNMENT WOULD REQUEST THE SENTENCE AS RECOMMENDED IN ITS
10:48AM 7 SENTENCING MEMO.
10:48AM 8 THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU.
10:49AM 9 ANYTHING ELSE?
10:49AM 10 MR. FULLER: BRIEFLY. TO GOVERNMENT COUNSEL'S
10:49AM 11 POINT, I THINK IT IS -- MY CLIENT HAS ACKNOWLEDGED HER POOR
10:49AM 12 DECISION MAKING DURING THIS TIME.
10:49AM 13 I WOULD CLOSE WITH -- TO BRING US TO THE BROADER CONTEXT
10:49AM 14 OF THE PPP LOAN FRAUD HERE. WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF
10:49AM 15 PPP LOAN FRAUD COMMITTED IN RELATION TO THIS PROGRAM, SO MUCH
10:49AM 16 THAT CONGRESS AMENDED THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS BECAUSE THEY
10:49AM 17 FELT THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THE FRAUD
10:49AM 18 ASSOCIATED WITH THE PPP LOAN PROGRAM IN THE SUFFICIENT AMOUNT
10:49AM 19 OF TIME UNDER THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.
10:49AM 20 I SAY THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE COURT TO
10:49AM 21 PUT INTO CONTEXT SHE WAS NOT -- SHE DID MAKE THOSE FALSE
10:49AM 22 STATEMENTS ON THAT LOAN, BUT SHE WAS CLEARLY WITHIN THE GROUP
10:49AM 23 OF INDIVIDUALS THAT THIS PROGRAM WAS INTENDED TO ASSIST, THOSE
10:49AM 24 WHOSE BUSINESSES WERE AFFECTED BY COVID.
10:50AM 25 NOW, WE LOOK AT REPORTS ABOUT SOME INDIVIDUALS WHO
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10:50AM 1 COMMITTED PPP LOAN FRAUD AND MADE UP COMPANIES OUT OF WHOLE
10:50AM 2 CLOTH THAT NEVER EXISTED AND THEY HAD ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO
10:50AM 3 THOSE FUNDS. THEY JUST SIMPLY LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING. THEY
10:50AM 4 MADE UP SHELL CORPORATIONS AS THE GOVERNMENT NOTED IN ITS
10:50AM 5 BRIEFING. BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE HERE.
10:50AM 6 WITH THAT, YOUR HONOR, THE DEFENSE FINAL REQUEST WOULD BE
10:50AM 7 AS TO HOME CONFINEMENT OR THE SENTENCE THAT THE COURT MAY
10:50AM 8 IMPOSE OF A SPLIT TERM.
10:50AM 9 THE COURT: OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE FROM PROBATION?
10:50AM 10 PROBATION OFFICER: NO, YOUR HONOR.
10:50AM 11 THE COURT: OKAY. AND UNLESS THE PARTIES HAVE
10:50AM 12 ANYTHING ELSE THEY WOULD LIKE TO OFFER, I THINK WE'RE READY TO
10:50AM 13 DECIDE WHAT THE APPROPRIATE SENTENCE IS HERE.
10:50AM 14 MR. JAMES: THE ONLY OTHER NOTE, AND THIS IS A
10:50AM 15 CLERICAL MATTER, YOUR HONOR, IS THE GOVERNMENT WOULD ASK
10:50AM 16 SPECIFICALLY AS NOTED IN THE SENTENCING MEMORANDUM AND THE
10:51AM 17 SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM THAT THE COURT ANNOUNCE THE CRIMINAL
10:51AM 18 FORFEITURE AS PART OF ITS SENTENCE.
10:51AM 19 THE COURT: OKAY. THAT'S SUBJECT TO AN
10:51AM 20 UNDERSTANDING THAT THE TERMS OF THAT FORFEITURE MAY BE -- ARE
10:51AM 21 STILL SUBJECT TO THE SUBSEQUENT HEARING; IS THAT RIGHT?
10:51AM 22 MR. JAMES: THE ANCILLARY PROCEEDINGS WILL BE
10:51AM 23 ONGOING AT A LATER DATE, BUT THE CRIMINAL FORFEITURE MUST BE
10:51AM 24 PRONOUNCED AS PART OF THE SENTENCE UNDER THE RULE.
10:51AM 25 MR. FULLER: AND, YOUR HONOR, IT WAS THE DEFENSE
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10:51AM 1 REQUEST, AND AFTER CONFERRING WITH THE GOVERNMENT COUNSEL, THAT
10:51AM 2 THE COURT DEFER ENTRY OF THE FORFEITURE PROCEEDINGS. IF THE
10:51AM 3 COURT WANTS, I CAN GET INTO THE DETAILS OF THAT REQUEST AT THIS
10:51AM 4 TIME OR DEFER UNTIL AFTER THE COURT PRONOUNCES.
10:51AM 5 THE COURT: I MEAN, I GUESS JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THE
10:51AM 6 GOVERNMENT'S REQUEST -- AND DOES THE GOVERNMENT NEED ME TO
10:51AM 7 ANNOUNCE FORFEITURE, INCLUDE FORFEITURE AND INCLUDE FORFEITURE
10:51AM 8 OF THE SPECIFIC PROPERTIES AND PROPERTY IDENTIFIED IN THE
10:51AM 9 PRESENTENCE REPORT? IS THAT --
10:52AM 10 MR. JAMES: THE PROPERTY IDENTIFIED IN THE
10:52AM 11 PRELIMINARY ORDER OF FORFEITURE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE
10:52AM 12 LOS GATOS/ALMADEN PROPERTY WHICH THE GOVERNMENT IS NO LONGER
10:52AM 13 SEEKING CRIMINAL FORFEITURE FOR.
10:52AM 14 THE COURT: OKAY.
10:52AM 15 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, THE DEFENSE REQUEST -- MY
10:52AM 16 UNDERSTANDING IS ALSO THAT -- ONE SECOND.
10:52AM 17 (DISCUSSION AMONGST COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)
10:52AM 18 MR. FULLER: IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE
10:52AM 19 GOVERNMENT'S REQUEST WILL ALSO BE AS TO THE MONEY JUDGMENT.
10:52AM 20 THE DEFENSE REQUEST IS THAT THE COURT, THE COURT WOULD
10:52AM 21 PROVIDE OR WOULD INDICATE TO THE PARTIES WHAT THE COURT'S
10:52AM 22 SENTENCE IS AT THIS TIME AND THEN DEFER ENTRY OF JUDGMENT UNTIL
10:52AM 23 A CONSOLIDATED RESTITUTION AND FORFEITURE PROCEEDING MAY BE
10:52AM 24 HELD.
10:52AM 25 HERE'S WHY, YOUR HONOR. THE PRELIMINARY ORDER OF
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10:52AM 1 FORFEITURE INVOLVES A SEIZURE OF APPROXIMATELY 700 AND CHANGE
10:52AM 2 FROM THE VANGUARD ACCOUNT. IF THE COURT WERE TO ENTER THE
10:52AM 3 FINAL ORDER OF FORFEITURE TODAY, THOSE FUNDS MAY NOT BE
10:52AM 4 CONSIDERED FOR PURPOSES OF RESTITUTION. THEY WOULD NOT GO TO
10:52AM 5 THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION. THEY WOULD GO TO THE
10:53AM 6 GOVERNMENT'S -- TO THE DOJ ASSET FORFEITURE.
10:53AM 7 IT IS THE DEFENSE REQUEST, AS WE HAVE RAISED WITH THE
10:53AM 8 GOVERNMENT, THAT THOSE FUNDS BE USED TO COMPENSATE THE VICTIM,
10:53AM 9 THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, AND NOT BE USED FOR PURPOSES
10:53AM 10 OF FORFEITURE PROCEEDINGS.
10:53AM 11 THE FORFEITURE PROCEEDINGS IS THE PENALTY THAT IS
10:53AM 12 ASSOCIATED WITH MY CLIENT. RESTITUTION GOES TO A CONCERN AS TO
10:53AM 13 THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, WHICH IS THE VICTIM HERE.
10:53AM 14 NOW, THE COURT HAS A COUPLE OF OPTIONS. THE COURT MAY
10:53AM 15 DEFER THAT, BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS QUITE RIGHT ABOUT THE COURT
10:53AM 16 NEEDING TO ENTER THAT FINAL JUDGMENT OF FORFEITURE OF WHEN THE
10:53AM 17 COURT PRONOUNCES AND IMPOSES SENTENCE. THAT IS WHY WE ARE
10:53AM 18 ASKING THE COURT TO INFER DISPOSITION OF SENTENCE AND
10:53AM 19 PRONOUNCEMENT OF THE FINAL SENTENCE UNTIL THAT TIME.
10:53AM 20 ANOTHER OPTION IS THE COURT MAY ENTER A PRELIMINARY ORDER
10:53AM 21 OF FORFEITURE AND IDENTIFY THE PARTICULAR ASSETS, BUT THEN HOLD
10:53AM 22 OFF ON IDENTIFYING THE AMOUNTS WITH RESPECT TO THOSE ASSETS.
10:53AM 23 AND I CITE TO THE COURT RULE -- ONE SECOND.
10:54AM 24 (PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)
10:54AM 25 MR. FULLER: CRIMINAL RULE OF PROCEDURE
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10:54AM 1 32.2(B)(2)(C) WHICH PROVIDES THE COURT -- IF THE COURT CANNOT
10:54AM 2 IDENTIFY ALL OF THE SPECIFIC PROPERTY SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE OR
10:54AM 3 CALCULATE THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THE MONEY JUDGMENT, THE COURT MAY
10:54AM 4 ENTER A FORFEITURE ORDER THAT LISTS ANY IDENTIFIED PROPERTY,
10:54AM 5 DESCRIBES OTHER PROPERTY IN GENERAL, AND WHEN SPECIFIC PROPERTY
10:54AM 6 IS IDENTIFIED OR THE MONEY JUDGMENT HAS BEEN CALCULATED.
10:54AM 7 UNDER THAT PROCEDURE, YOUR HONOR, THE COURT WOULD IDENTIFY
10:54AM 8 THE PROPERTY AND THEN DEFER AS TO THE AMOUNTS TO THE LATER
10:54AM 9 DATE.
10:54AM 10 THE COURT: WOULD THE GOVERNMENT OBJECT TO DOING
10:54AM 11 THAT UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES?
10:54AM 12 MR. JAMES: CAN I BEG A MOMENT OF THE COURT'S
10:54AM 13 INDULGENCE?
10:54AM 14 THE COURT: YES.
10:54AM 15 (DISCUSSION AMONGST GOVERNMENT COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)
10:55AM 16 MR. JAMES: YOUR HONOR, AFTER CONFERRING WITH MY
10:55AM 17 FORFEITURE COLLEAGUES, THE PRELIMINARY ORDER OF FORFEITURE WAS
10:55AM 18 PROPOSED TO THE COURT MONTHS AGO AND SIGNED OFF BY THE COURT,
10:55AM 19 AND IT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIES THE PROPERTY AND THE AMOUNT OF
10:55AM 20 THE MONEY JUDGMENT THAT IS SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE AND WHICH
10:55AM 21 NEEDS TO BE IMPOSED AS PART OF THE SENTENCE.
10:55AM 22 THERE WERE NO OBJECTIONS PRIOR TO THE ENTRY OF THAT
10:55AM 23 PRELIMINARY ORDER OF FORFEITURE THAT I AM IMMEDIATELY AWARE OF.
10:55AM 24 THIS REALLY IS AN 11TH HOUR OBJECTION TO BOTH THE SCOPE OF
10:55AM 25 FORFEITURE AND THE APPLICATION OF THE FUNDS THAT HAVE BEEN
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10:55AM 1 SEIZED SUBJECT TO IT. THERE'S NO BASIS FOR THAT.
10:56AM 2 I RESPECT MY COLLEAGUE'S CITATION TO RULE 32.2(B)(2)(C),
10:56AM 3 BUT THAT IS NOT PARTICULARLY APPLICABLE HERE WHERE WE HAVE
10:56AM 4 ALREADY SUCCESSFULLY IDENTIFIED THE PROPERTY AND THE AMOUNTS TO
10:56AM 5 THE COURT AND THE PRELIMINARY ORDER OF FORFEITURE HAS ALREADY
10:56AM 6 BEEN ENTERED.
10:56AM 7 THE APPROPRIATE THING TO DO AT THIS TIME IS FOR THE COURT
10:56AM 8 TO PRONOUNCE THAT FORFEITURE AS IT APPLIES TO CASSIE
10:56AM 9 WILL-DARNALL.
10:56AM 10 TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE REMAINS ANCILLARY CLAIMS
10:56AM 11 CONTESTING ASPECTS OF THE FORFEITURE, THAT WILL STILL BE
10:56AM 12 LITIGATED AT A LATER DATE.
10:56AM 13 AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THE DEFENSE MAY SEEK TO CONTEST THE
10:56AM 14 APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF RESTITUTION, THAT CAN ALSO BE LITIGATED
10:56AM 15 AT A LATER DATE. INDEED THE DEFENSE AND THE GOVERNMENT HAVE
10:56AM 16 ALREADY DISCUSSED THAT IT IS NOT OUR INTENTION TO ASK THE COURT
10:56AM 17 TO FINALIZE RESTITUTION TODAY, BUT RATHER TO SET A SEPARATE
10:56AM 18 RESTITUTION HEARING SOME TIME AFTER THE PRONOUNCEMENT OF
10:57AM 19 JUDGMENT TODAY.
10:57AM 20 MR. FULLER: AND, YOUR HONOR, TO THE COURT'S POINT,
10:57AM 21 THE RULE DOES PERMIT THE COURT TO DEFER THAT FINAL
10:57AM 22 DETERMINATION. I DID NOT HEAR ANYTHING IN THE GOVERNMENT'S
10:57AM 23 OPPOSITION TO THAT THAT INDICATED THAT THE COURT CANNOT DO
10:57AM 24 THAT.
10:57AM 25 THE CONCERN HERE, YOUR HONOR, IS ALSO THAT RESTITUTION IS
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10:57AM 1 MANDATORY. AS THE COURT IS AWARE, AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS
10:57AM 2 INDICATED THE PARTIES CAN DEFER THE ISSUE OF RESTITUTION. IF
10:57AM 3 WE DEFER THE ISSUE OF RESTITUTION AT THAT HEARING, IT IS THE
10:57AM 4 DEFENSE POSITION TO APPLY THOSE FUNDS THAT WERE SEIZED IN THAT
10:57AM 5 ACCOUNT TO RESTITUTION. WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION
10:57AM 6 WITH THE GOVERNMENT. IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNMENT'S
10:57AM 7 DISCRETION WHETHER OR NOT TO DO THAT.
10:57AM 8 I AM AWARE THERE'S A PROCESS BY WHICH THOSE FUNDS MAY BE
10:57AM 9 USED FOR THAT PURPOSE, BUT IF THE COURT WERE TO PROCEED WITH
10:57AM 10 THE FINAL ORDER OF FORFEITURE TODAY, THOSE FUNDS MAY NOT BE
10:58AM 11 CONSIDERED FOR PURPOSES OF THE RESTITUTION. THE RESTITUTION
10:58AM 12 HEARING IS STILL YET TO BE HELD.
10:58AM 13 MR. JAMES: DEFENDANT DOES HAVE NOT ANY
10:58AM 14 PARTICULARIZED RIGHT TO PAY BACK THE MONEY SHE STOLE WITH THE
10:58AM 15 MONEY THAT SHE STOLE. UNDER THE LAW IT MAY BE RIGHTFULLY
10:58AM 16 SEIZED SUBJECT TO CRIMINAL FORFEITURE, AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS
10:58AM 17 DONE SO AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.
10:58AM 18 THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT INTEND TO PERMIT MS. WILL-DARNALL
10:58AM 19 TO APPLY ANY PART OF THOSE FUNDS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO CRIMINAL
10:58AM 20 FORFEITURE TO HER RESTITUTION OBLIGATIONS.
10:58AM 21 CERTAINLY THIS IS A HEAVY PENALTY THAT IS FALLING UPON
10:58AM 22 MS. WILL-DARNALL. CERTAINLY THE COURT SHOULD CONSIDER THE
10:58AM 23 SCOPE OF THAT PENALTY OF THE CRIMINAL FORFEITURE IN ITS
10:58AM 24 APPLICATION OF THE 3553(A) FACTORS. IT MUST BECAUSE IT SERVES
10:58AM 25 THE PURPOSE OF PUNISHMENT.
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10:58AM 1 BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE COURT MAY REFUSE AT THE
10:58AM 2 11TH HOUR A PORTION OF THE CRIMINAL FORFEITURE SIMPLY SO THAT
10:59AM 3 THOSE SAME FUNDS MAY BE AVAILABLE IN A RESTITUTION HEARING.
10:59AM 4 THOSE OBLIGATIONS ARE MS. WILL-DARNALL'S AND THEY'RE
10:59AM 5 MS. WILL-DARNALL'S IN FULL.
10:59AM 6 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE
10:59AM 7 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ASSET FORFEITURE PROGRAM IS THAT THEY
10:59AM 8 HAVE TWO, REMISSION AND RESTORATION. AND THIS IS THEIR GUIDE
10:59AM 9 TO THAT PROCESS WHICH PROVIDES THAT RESTORATION ISSUES WITH THE
10:59AM 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THE REQUEST OF THE U.S. ATTORNEY AUTHORIZES
10:59AM 11 THE USE OF FORFEITED FUNDS TO PAY RESTITUTION TO THE VICTIMS IN
10:59AM 12 A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.
10:59AM 13 SO IT IS A PROGRAM THAT EXISTS WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF
10:59AM 14 JUSTICE, AND IT IS AT THEIR DISCRETION TO APPLY THOSE FUNDS
10:59AM 15 EITHER TO RESTITUTION BECAUSE THE RESTITUTION HERE, YOUR HONOR,
10:59AM 16 IS NOT ABOUT MS. DARNALL. IT IS NOT PUNISHMENT. IT IS ABOUT
10:59AM 17 THE VICTIM AND RESTORING THE VICTIM TO BE MADE WHOLE. THE
10:59AM 18 MONETARY PENALTY, THAT'S THE PUNISHMENT.
10:59AM 19 NOW, THE GOVERNMENT IS SEEKING TO USE THE FUNDS IN ORDER
10:59AM 20 TO DECREASE THE MONETARY PENALTY AS TO MY CLIENT RATHER THAN
11:00AM 21 USING THOSE TOWARDS RESTITUTION. THAT IS TO SAY, IF THE COURT
11:00AM 22 IS INTENDING TO PROCEED THAT WAY, THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE THE
11:00AM 23 EFFECT OF ENTERING THE FINAL ORDER OF FORFEITURE WOULD BE
11:00AM 24 TODAY.
11:00AM 25 THE COURT: OKAY. IT DOES SEEM LIKE THEY'RE -- I
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11:00AM 1 MEAN, IT'S ODD TO SAY THAT THE RESTITUTIONARY OBLIGATION
11:00AM 2 WOULDN'T BE -- CONSIDER WHETHER THE ENTITY FROM WHICH THE MONEY
11:00AM 3 WAS TAKEN HAS RECEIVED THAT MONEY BACK, WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE
11:00AM 4 PRINCIPAL. BUT THAT WOULD BE -- WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
11:00AM 5 RESTITUTION, YOU THINK ABOUT THE RESTORATION OF THE FUNDS THAT
11:00AM 6 WERE TAKEN FROM SOMEONE AND HAVING THEM RETURNED.
11:00AM 7 NOW, IT KIND OF GOES THROUGH FORFEITURE, WHICH IS A
11:00AM 8 PENALTY, AS OPPOSED TO A QUESTION OF RESTITUTION. SO I THINK I
11:00AM 9 WOULD BE INCLINED TO DEFER IMPOSITION OF A FINAL ORDER OF
11:00AM 10 RESTITUTION UNDER 352.2 -- UNDER THE PROVISION THAT WAS
11:01AM 11 IDENTIFIED BY COUNSEL.
11:01AM 12 MR. JAMES: I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR. I MUST ASK FOR
11:01AM 13 CLARIFICATION. ARE YOU DEFERRING RESTITUTION OR ARE YOU
11:01AM 14 DEFERRING FORFEITURE?
11:01AM 15 THE COURT: I'M DEFERRING ENTRY OF A FINAL ORDER OF
11:01AM 16 FORFEITURE UNTIL THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF FUNDS THAT SHOULD BE
11:01AM 17 INCLUDED IN THE AMOUNT OF FORFEITURE CAN BE IDENTIFIED.
11:01AM 18 MR. JAMES: I HAVE SPOKEN WITH MY COLLEAGUE.
11:01AM 19 DEFENSE COUNSEL IDENTIFIES PROGRAMS UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF
11:01AM 20 JUSTICE WHERE THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN CONJUNCTION WITH
11:01AM 21 THE DEPARTMENT MAIN MAY ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS WHERE MONEY THAT
11:01AM 22 WOULD OTHERWISE BE SUBJECT TO FORFEITURE MAY GO TO RESTITUTION.
11:01AM 23 WE'RE NOT EXERCISING THAT DISCRETION IN THIS CASE. AND SO
11:01AM 24 ABSENT THAT, THERE'S -- I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY BASIS IN LAW UNDER
11:01AM 25 WHICH THE FUNDS THAT ARE BEING THE SUBJECT OF FORFEITURE,
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11:01AM 1 CRIMINAL FORFEITURE, THEY BE DIVERTED TO APPLY TO RESTITUTION.
11:01AM 2 INDEED, IF ANYTHING, THE LAW IS QUITE CLEAR THAT THESE
11:02AM 3 CONCEPTS OF FORFEITURE AND RESTITUTION SERVE DIFFERENT PURPOSES
11:02AM 4 AND ONE MAY NOT BE OFFSET BY THE OTHER, WHICH IS IN EFFECT WHAT
11:02AM 5 THE DEFENDANT IS ATTEMPTING TO ACCOMPLISH.
11:02AM 6 THE COURT MAY CONSIDER THE SCOPE OF THE CRIMINAL
11:02AM 7 FORFEITURE IN DETERMINING WHAT THE APPROPRIATE CUSTODIAL
11:02AM 8 SENTENCE IS. I DON'T WANT TO CALL THAT AN OFFSET, BUT IT'S ONE
11:02AM 9 OF THE THINGS THAT THE COURT MUST CONSIDER IN THE APPLICATION
11:02AM 10 OF THE FACTORS, BUT IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO REDUCE THE
11:02AM 11 CRIMINAL FORFEITURE IN ORDER TO HAVE THOSE SAME FUNDS BE
11:02AM 12 AVAILABLE IN RESTITUTION.
11:02AM 13 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, HERE, THERE IS NO --
11:02AM 14 THE COURT: LET ME ASK THIS. IS THERE ANY HARM TO
11:02AM 15 THE GOVERNMENT IN ALLOWING THIS TO BE RESOLVED IF I AM, YOU
11:02AM 16 KNOW -- IF WE'RE ADDRESSING THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN COURT
11:02AM 17 ORALLY WITHOUT ANY BRIEFING ON THIS ISSUE. I UNDERSTAND
11:02AM 18 BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT WAS RAISED, BUT -- AND OBVIOUSLY -- I'M
11:03AM 19 SURE THE GOVERNMENT WOULD LIKE TO GET A FINAL ORDER TODAY SO IT
11:03AM 20 HAS CERTAINTY ON THIS ISSUE. THERE OBVIOUSLY IS SOME
11:03AM 21 DISCRETION UNDER THE RULES TO POSTPONE ENTRY OF THE FINAL ORDER
11:03AM 22 OF FORFEITURE IF THERE IS A NEED TO RESOLVE AN ISSUE WITH
11:03AM 23 RESPECT TO THE AMOUNT OF THE FUNDS TO BE FORFEITED OR THE
11:03AM 24 MONETARY JUDGMENT. THAT'S HOW AT LEAST LOOKING AT THE RULE
11:03AM 25 THAT I HAVE THAT DISCRETION.
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11:03AM 1 SO WHAT IS THE HARM TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ALLOWING THESE
11:03AM 2 ARGUMENTS TO BE PROPERLY BRIEFED TO ME, TO BE PROPERLY RAISED?
11:03AM 3 IS THERE ANYTHING -- IS THERE ANY HARM TO RESOLVING THIS AT
11:03AM 4 THAT POINT RATHER THAN DOING IT RIGHT NOW ON THE FLY?
11:03AM 5 MR. JAMES: THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS: ONE
11:03AM 6 GENERAL PRINCIPLE AND ONE SPECIFIC ISSUE IN THIS CASE.
11:03AM 7 THE GENERAL PRINCIPLE IS THAT IF THE COURT IS NOT GOING TO
11:03AM 8 ENTER A CRIMINAL FORFEITURE AGAINST THE DEFENDANT AT THIS TIME
11:03AM 9 BUT THEN ALSO PROCEEDS TO IMPOSE THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE
11:04AM 10 SENTENCE, IT RAISES THE QUESTION OF HOW THE COURT WAS ABLE TO
11:04AM 11 WEIGH UNDER THE FACTORS THE WEIGHT OF THAT CRIMINAL FORFEITURE
11:04AM 12 AS A PENALTY WHEN IT WAS ALSO CONSIDERING THE TERM OF CUSTODY,
11:04AM 13 THE TERMS OF SUPERVISED RELEASE AND ALL ELSE. I THINK THOSE
11:04AM 14 THINGS HAVE TO BE IMPOSED AT THE SAME TIME.
11:04AM 15 SO WHATEVER THE COURT DOES, IT NEEDS TO OCCUR ALL AT ONE
11:04AM 16 POINT IN TIME, AT LEAST THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.
11:04AM 17 SPECIFIC TO THIS CASE --
11:04AM 18 THE COURT: I MEAN, BUT HERE IT SAYS -- THE RULES
11:04AM 19 SAY I CAN POSTPONE IT. IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS I CAN POSTPONE
11:04AM 20 ENTRY OF -- OR I'M LOOKING AT, IF BEFORE SENTENCING THE COURT
11:04AM 21 CANNOT IDENTIFY ALL OF THE SPECIFIC PROPERTY SUBJECT TO
11:04AM 22 FORFEITURE, CALCULATE THE TOTAL AMOUNT, IT MAY ENTER A
11:04AM 23 FORFEITURE ORDER THAT LISTS ANY IDENTIFIED PROPERTY THAT
11:04AM 24 DESCRIBES OTHER PROPERTY IN GENERAL TERMS AND STATES THAT THE
11:04AM 25 ORDER WILL BE AMENDED UNDER RULE 32(E)(1).
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11:04AM 1 SO CLEARLY THE RULES CONTEMPLATE THE POSSIBILITY OF
11:04AM 2 ENTERING SENTENCING WITHOUT REACHING FINAL RESOLUTION ON THE
11:05AM 3 AMOUNT OF FORFEITURE.
11:05AM 4 MR. JAMES: PERHAPS WHEN THE ITEMS TO BE FORFEITED
11:05AM 5 HAVE NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED, BUT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED THOSE ITEMS IN
11:05AM 6 THIS CASE AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY OBJECTION TO THAT UNTIL
11:05AM 7 10, 15 MINUTES AGO, AND REALLY THAT'S A LATENT AND UNTIMELY
11:05AM 8 OBJECTION TO THE PRELIMINARY ORDER OF FORFEITURE THAT HAS BEEN
11:05AM 9 ENTERED.
11:05AM 10 I DON'T BELIEVE THAT RULE PROVIDES A MECHANISM IN THIS
11:05AM 11 CASE.
11:05AM 12 NOW, THAT SAID, IF THE COURT WISHES TO CONTINUE SENTENCING
11:05AM 13 IN TOTAL, THAT'S WITHIN THE COURT'S DISCRETION.
11:05AM 14 THE COURT: THAT I DO NOT WISH TO POSTPONE TO THREE
11:05AM 15 WEEKS.
11:05AM 16 MR. JAMES: RIGHT. THE OTHER SPECIFIC ISSUE IN THIS
11:05AM 17 CASE IS THAT THERE IS A CONTINUITY OF GOVERNMENT COUNSEL ISSUE
11:05AM 18 IN THIS CASE. I HAVE SERVED AS THE GOVERNMENT'S REPRESENTATIVE
11:05AM 19 IN THIS MATTER SINCE EARLIER THIS YEAR. I WILL BE DEPARTING
11:05AM 20 THE U.S.'S OFFICE ON OCTOBER 10TH, AND I'M ALREADY BOOKED UP
11:05AM 21 WITH NUMEROUS SENTENCINGS BETWEEN NOW AND THEN. THE PREVIOUS
11:05AM 22 COUNSEL ON THIS CASE WILL NOT BECOME AVAILABLE TO RESUME HER
11:06AM 23 REPRESENTATION OF THE GOVERNMENT UNTIL LATE NOVEMBER OR
11:06AM 24 DECEMBER.
11:06AM 25 AND SO TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS GETS CONTINUED TO A FUTURE
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11:06AM 1 DATE, THE GOVERNMENT'S REQUEST IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE THAT IT
11:06AM 2 BE CONTINUED QUITE SUBSTANTIALLY, WHETHER IN PART OR IN WHOLE.
11:06AM 3 THE COURT: WELL, WE HAVE A HEARING COMING UP ON THE
11:06AM 4 QUESTION OF THE THIRD PARTY CHALLENGE TO FORFEITURE; CORRECT?
11:06AM 5 MR. JAMES: YES. I BELIEVE IT IS SET FOR
11:06AM 6 OCTOBER 14TH.
11:06AM 7 THE CLERK: 15TH, COUNSEL.
11:06AM 8 MR. JAMES: 15TH. I APOLOGIZE. I WAS OFF BY A DAY.
11:06AM 9 SO CERTAINLY THE COUNSEL WHO REPRESENTS THE GOVERNMENT AS
11:06AM 10 TO THE FORFEITURE PROCEEDINGS IN THE ANCILLARY FORFEITURE
11:06AM 11 LITIGATION WILL BE THERE AND PRESENT, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING,
11:06AM 12 WE SEPARATE OUT WHO REPRESENTS THE GOVERNMENT FOR FORFEITURE
11:06AM 13 PURPOSES AND WHO REPRESENTS THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE GENERAL
11:06AM 14 PROSECUTION OF THE CRIME.
11:07AM 15 THE COURT: BUT MAYBE THE CIRCUMSTANCES HERE WILL
11:07AM 16 JUSTIFY -- IT CERTAINLY SEEMS LIKE WE ARE GOING TO BE BACK
11:07AM 17 TOGETHER IN RELATIONSHIP TO THIS CASE ON OCTOBER 15TH, AND IT
11:07AM 18 SEEMS LIKE THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE THAT IS PERHAPS ADDRESSED
11:07AM 19 BETTER THEN. I UNDERSTAND THERE MIGHT BE SOME TRANSITION
11:07AM 20 CHALLENGES IN THE OFFICE, BUT IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT'S
11:07AM 21 SOMETHING THAT CAN BE OVERCOME. IT'S A PRETTY DISCRETE ISSUE
11:07AM 22 THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AS I UNDERSTAND IT.
11:07AM 23 SO, AGAIN, IN THE ABSENCE OF -- THIS IS SOMETHING I DON'T
11:07AM 24 WANT TO CONTINUE THE SENTENCING FURTHER SINCE WE ALREADY
11:07AM 25 CONTINUED IT BY THREE WEEKS, BUT I DO THINK THAT IT IS
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11:07AM 1 APPROPRIATE TO ENTER THE ORDER OF FORFEITURE CONSISTENT WITH
11:07AM 2 RULE 32.2(B)(2)(C), A GENERAL ORDER OF FORFEITURE, AND THAT'S
11:07AM 3 WHAT I WILL INTEND TO DO AS PART OF THE SENTENCE HERE.
11:07AM 4 SO OBVIOUSLY I HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO CONSIDER ALL OF THE
11:07AM 5 MATERIAL THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED, THE SENTENCE RECOMMENDED BY
11:08AM 6 THE GUIDELINES, I'VE HEARD FROM MS. WILL-DARNALL, AND HER
11:08AM 7 MOTHER, AND HER FRIEND, AND COUNSEL FOR MS. WILL-DARNALL, AND
11:08AM 8 THE GOVERNMENT.
11:08AM 9 I THINK THAT -- YOU KNOW, AND I'VE CONSIDERED THE
11:08AM 10 STATUTORY FACTORS SET FORTH UNDER 18 U.S. CODE SECTION 3553(A).
11:08AM 11 AND I THINK IN SOME WAYS THERE'S A NUMBER THAT ARE
11:08AM 12 IMPORTANT HERE. THE NATURE AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE
11:08AM 13 OFFENSE ARE SIGNIFICANT HERE. YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A SMALL
11:08AM 14 AMOUNT OF FRAUDULENT APPLICATIONS, RIGHT? THERE WAS
11:08AM 15 2.8 MILLION, ROUGHLY, IN LOAN FUNDS THAT WERE RECEIVED AS A
11:08AM 16 RESULT OF MS. WILL-DARNALL'S FALSE APPLICATIONS AND MORE THAN
11:08AM 17 $9 MILLION IN FALSE APPLICATIONS THAT WERE SUBMITTED, AND
11:08AM 18 THAT'S A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WAS FRAUDULENTLY PROCURED
11:08AM 19 AND SOUGHT TO BE PROCURED FROM THE GOVERNMENT. AND THAT IS A
11:08AM 20 KIND OF FRAUDULENT CONDUCT THAT REQUIRES A SIGNIFICANT PENALTY.
11:09AM 21 AND I THINK THAT IN ADDITION, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT,
11:09AM 22 YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE GOING TO BE FINANCIAL
11:09AM 23 PENALTIES AND THERE ARE OTHER PENALTIES THAT ARE ACCOMPANIED BY
11:09AM 24 THIS, BUT IN CRIMES LIKE THIS, DETERRENCE NOT ONLY WITH RESPECT
11:09AM 25 TO MS. WILL-DARNALL WHO I UNDERSTAND IS A ZERO POINT OFFENDER
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11:09AM 1 UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHICH THIS OCCURRED, BUT THERE ARE
11:09AM 2 IMPORTANT PUBLIC DETERRENT CONSEQUENCES AT ISSUE HERE AND THERE
11:09AM 3 ARE SOME EQUITY ISSUES THAT ARISE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE
11:09AM 4 ABILITY TO IMPOSE FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES FOR A CRIME MIGHT BE
11:09AM 5 A BASIS FOR AVOIDING TERMS OF IMPRISONMENT THAT OTHERS WHO
11:09AM 6 MIGHT BE UNABLE TO AVOID BY VIRTUE OF THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES AND
11:09AM 7 WHAT IS AT ISSUE.
11:09AM 8 SO I'VE CONSIDERED THE NATURE AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE
11:09AM 9 OFFENSE, AND I DO THINK THAT SOME TERM OF IMPRISONMENT IS
11:09AM 10 NECESSARY HERE GIVEN THE STATUTORY FACTORS UNDER 18 U.S. CODE
11:10AM 11 SECTION 3553(A).
11:10AM 12 THAT SAID, I'VE ALSO CONSIDERED THE HISTORY AND
11:10AM 13 CHARACTERISTICS OF MS. WILL-DARNALL, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT
11:10AM 14 THIS APPEARS TO BE ABHORRENT AND A RESULT OF PARTICULAR
11:10AM 15 CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WERE UNIQUE IN SOME WAYS TO THE ONSET OF THE
11:10AM 16 PANDEMIC AND THE CHALLENGES THAT SHE WAS FACING AT THE TIME OF
11:10AM 17 ISSUE, AND HAS NOTED THE FACT THAT MS. WILL-DARNALL WAS A
11:10AM 18 VICTIM OF THE ONSET OF THE PANDEMIC, ALTHOUGH NOT ELIGIBLE FOR
11:10AM 19 THE RELIEF THAT WAS MADE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE PROGRAMS FOR
11:10AM 20 WHICH SHE APPLIED FOR LOANS.
11:10AM 21 SO I DO THINK THAT THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE SIGNIFICANT AND
11:10AM 22 DO MERIT A SUBSTANTIAL DOWNWARD VARIANCE FROM THE SENTENCE THAT
11:10AM 23 IS RECOMMENDED UNDER THE GUIDELINES WHICH IS AT A MINIMUM A
11:10AM 24 SENTENCE OF 33 MONTHS IMPRISONMENT.
11:11AM 25 SO IN LIGHT OF THOSE FACTORS AS WELL AS THE, YOU KNOW,
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11:11AM 1 CONSIDERING THE, AGAIN, THE NEED TO AVOID INEQUITABLE SENTENCES
11:11AM 2 OR A SENTENCE THAT IS OUT OF LINE WITH THE SENTENCES THAT HAVE
11:11AM 3 BEEN PROVIDED IN OTHER SIMILAR CASES, AND IT'S OF NOTE THAT
11:11AM 4 THIS IS ONE OF THE CASES WAS NOTED IN THE PRESENTENCE REPORT
11:11AM 5 WHERE IT DOES APPEAR SORT OF THE AVERAGE SENTENCE THAT IS
11:11AM 6 IMPOSED IN THESE CASES IS USUALLY WITHIN THE GUIDELINES FOR
11:11AM 7 SOMEONE WITH THE SAME GUIDELINES CALCULATIONS.
11:11AM 8 I THINK THE CIRCUMSTANCES HERE ARE UNIQUE AND DO MEASURE
11:11AM 9 AND DO JUSTIFY A DOWNWARD VARIANCE FOR THE REASONS I'VE SAID.
11:11AM 10 BUT UNDER ALL OF THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, I DO THINK THAT THE
11:11AM 11 SENTENCE THAT IS SUFFICIENT BUT NO GREATER THAN NECESSARY TO
11:11AM 12 SATISFY THE PURPOSES OF SENTENCING IN 18 U.S. CODE 3553(A)
11:11AM 13 WOULD BE A SENTENCE OF 18 MONTHS OF IMPRISONMENT TO BE FOLLOWED
11:12AM 14 BY A PERIOD OF SUPERVISED RELEASE OF 3 YEARS AND SUBJECT TO THE
11:12AM 15 STANDARD AND SPECIAL CONDITIONS OF SUPERVISED RELEASE THAT ARE
11:12AM 16 SET FORTH IN THE PRESENTENCE REPORT.
11:12AM 17 I WILL ALSO -- AS NOTED, I WILL ORDER FORFEITURE. I'LL
11:12AM 18 ISSUE A GENERAL ORDER OF FORFEITURE AS I BELIEVE TO WHAT IS AT
11:12AM 19 ISSUE IS THE REAL PROPERTY LOCATED AT 111 BELWOOD GATEWAY IN
11:12AM 20 LOS GATOS AS WELL AS IN GENERAL THE FUNDS THAT ARE ON DEPOSIT
11:12AM 21 IN A VANGUARD ACCOUNT IN AN AMOUNT TO BE DETERMINED IN THE
11:12AM 22 FUTURE AS WELL AS A FORFEITURE OF MONEY JUDGMENT IN AN AMOUNT
11:12AM 23 TO BE DETERMINED IN THE FUTURE.
11:13AM 24 ARE THERE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I NEED TO INCLUDE IN THAT
11:13AM 25 ORDER, GENERAL ORDER?
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11:13AM 1 MR. JAMES: NO, YOUR HONOR.
11:13AM 2 THE COURT: OKAY. I WILL ALSO ORDER RESTITUTION IN
11:13AM 3 AN AMOUNT TO BE DETERMINED IN THE FUTURE. THERE WILL BE -- AND
11:13AM 4 I SHOULD NOTE THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A JUDGMENT ON COUNTS ONE AND
11:13AM 5 TWO. IT'S A TERM OF 18 MONTHS IMPRISONMENT TO BE SERVED
11:13AM 6 CONCURRENTLY ON BOTH COUNTS.
11:13AM 7 I WILL ORDER A SPECIAL ASSESSMENT OF $100 PER COUNT AS
11:13AM 8 WELL.
11:13AM 9 ARE THERE ANY -- I'LL ASK PROBATION, ARE THERE ANY OTHER
11:13AM 10 ASPECTS OF THE SENTENCE I MISSED?
11:13AM 11 PROBATION OFFICER: THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD IS
11:13AM 12 THERE WAS A RECENT MEMORANDUM SUBMITTED BY PRETRIAL SERVICES.
11:13AM 13 THERE WAS A POSITIVE DRUG TEST, I BELIEVE. SO WE RECOMMEND
11:14AM 14 SUSPENDING THE DRUG TESTING, THE MANDATORY DRUG TESTING
11:14AM 15 CONDITION. I WOULD ASK THE COURT TO RECONSIDER THAT GIVEN THE
11:14AM 16 POSITIVE DRUG TEST.
11:14AM 17 THE COURT: I THINK I'LL STAND AND GO WITH THE
11:14AM 18 ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE CONDITIONS OF SUPERVISED
11:14AM 19 RELEASE.
11:14AM 20 PROBATION OFFICER: OKAY. THESE ARE WITH REGARD TO
11:14AM 21 THE MANDATORY?
11:14AM 22 THE COURT: YES, YES.
11:14AM 23 PROBATION OFFICER: OKAY.
11:14AM 24 THE COURT: I ALSO THINK VOLUNTARY SURRENDER IS
11:14AM 25 APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS CASE.
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11:14AM 1 I THINK IT MAKES SENSE -- I'M NOT PARTICULARLY CONCERNED
11:14AM 2 ABOUT FLIGHT IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. SO I WOULD -- YOU KNOW,
11:14AM 3 I'M HAPPY TO SET AN ORDER FOR VOLUNTARY SURRENDER AT SOME POINT
11:14AM 4 IN THE NEW YEAR SO WE CAN GET THROUGH THE FALL AND THE
11:14AM 5 HOLIDAYS.
11:15AM 6 LET ME ASK DEFENSE COUNSEL.
11:15AM 7 (DISCUSSION AMONGST DEFENSE COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)
11:15AM 8 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY
11:15AM 9 WOULD BE FINE.
11:15AM 10 THE COURT: THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING. SO I'LL
11:15AM 11 ORDER MS. WILL-DARNALL TO VOLUNTARY SURRENDER TO THE BUREAU OF
11:15AM 12 PRISONS OR AS OTHERWISE DIRECTED AT 5:00 P.M. ON WEDNESDAY,
11:15AM 13 JANUARY 7TH, 2026.
11:15AM 14 IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT I FAILED TO ADDRESS?
11:15AM 15 MR. JAMES: I DON'T THINK THE COURT HAS TO
11:15AM 16 ARTICULATE THIS, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S NO IMPOSITION OF A
11:15AM 17 FINE?
11:15AM 18 THE COURT: NO. I THINK THE RECOMMENDATION -- AND
11:15AM 19 THE RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE FINE HAS BEEN WAIVED BASED ON
11:15AM 20 THE LACK OF NEEDS.
11:15AM 21 MR. JAMES: I BELIEVE THAT COVERS EVERYTHING,
11:15AM 22 YOUR HONOR.
11:15AM 23 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, I BELIEVE WE NEED TO SET A
11:15AM 24 DATE FOR THE RESTITUTION HEARING.
11:15AM 25 THE COURT: OKAY.
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11:16AM 1 THE CLERK: OCTOBER 15TH.
11:16AM 2 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OCTOBER 15TH IS THE
11:16AM 3 FORFEITURE HEARING. SO WHAT IS -- IT SOUNDS LIKE THE
11:16AM 4 RESTITUTION HEARING WILL HAVE TO BE PUT OFF UNTIL SOMEONE ELSE
11:16AM 5 CAN COME ON TO THE CASE?
11:16AM 6 MR. JAMES: I BELIEVE UNDER THE LAW WE HAVE TO GET
11:16AM 7 IT DONE WITHIN 90 DAYS. IF WE WANT TO SET A DATE ABOUT 60 DAYS
11:16AM 8 OUT, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE ADEQUATE TIME FOR EITHER PRIOR
11:16AM 9 COUNSEL TO COME BACK IN AND ATTEND TO IT, AND IF NOT, CERTAINLY
11:16AM 10 ENOUGH TIME FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO PRESENT SOMEBODY TO ATTEND TO
11:16AM 11 RESTITUTION.
11:16AM 12 THE COURT: NICOLE, ARE WE AVAILABLE ON THE 19TH OF
11:16AM 13 NOVEMBER?
11:16AM 14 THE CLERK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
11:16AM 15 THE COURT: WOULD THAT WORK FOR DEFENSE COUNSEL?
11:16AM 16 MR. FULLER: YOUR HONOR, I THINK -- YES, I CAN DO
11:16AM 17 THAT.
11:16AM 18 CAN WE DO THE 12TH?
11:16AM 19 THE COURT: CAN WE DO THE 12TH?
11:17AM 20 THE CLERK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
11:17AM 21 THE COURT: IS THAT -- OR DOES DECEMBER 3RD WORK
11:17AM 22 BETTER FOR PEOPLE?
11:17AM 23 MR. FULLER: THAT WORKS.
11:17AM 24 MR. JAMES: DECEMBER 3RD.
11:17AM 25 THE COURT: SO WE'LL SET IT FOR DECEMBER 3RD, 2025,
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11:17AM 1 A HEARING ON THE RESTITUTION.
11:17AM 2 MS. WILL-DARNALL, YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL UNDER
11:17AM 3 CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. SO YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT ANY NOTICE OF
11:17AM 4 APPEAL HAS TO BE FILED WITHIN 14 DAYS OF THE ENTRY OF JUDGMENT
11:17AM 5 OR 14 DAYS OF THE GOVERNMENT'S FILING OF THE NOTICE OF APPEAL.
11:17AM 6 FOR THE REASONS WE DISCUSSED, IT WILL PROBABLY BE THE
11:17AM 7 CASE THAT THE ENTRY OF JUDGMENT WILL PROBABLY NOT BE IMMEDIATE
11:17AM 8 BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME OTHER DETAILS THAT HAVE TO BE RESOLVED
11:18AM 9 BEFORE WE DO THAT, BUT CERTAINLY WHEN THAT JUDGMENT HAPPENS,
11:18AM 10 YOU HAVE 14 DAYS TO FILE A NOTICE OF APPEAL AND IF YOU -- YOU
11:18AM 11 CAN SEEK THE CLERK'S OFFICE ASSISTANCE IN DOING SO. AND YOU
11:18AM 12 MAY ALSO BE ENTITLED TO A WAIVER OF APPEAL FEES AND ASSISTANCE
11:18AM 13 OF COUNSEL ON APPEAL IF YOU'RE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT.
11:18AM 14 IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THIS
11:18AM 15 MORNING?
11:18AM 16 MR. FULLER: NOTHING FURTHER FROM THE DEFENSE,
11:18AM 17 YOUR HONOR.
11:18AM 18 MR. JAMES: NOTHING FURTHER FROM THE GOVERNMENT,
11:18AM 19 YOUR HONOR.
11:18AM 20 THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU. GOOD LUCK,
11:18AM 21 MS. WILL-DARNALL.
11:18AM 22 THE CLERK: THANK YOU. THIS MATTER IS CONCLUDED.
11:18AM 23 (COURT CONCLUDED AT 11:18 A.M.)
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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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3 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
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7 I, THE UNDERSIGNED OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER OF THE
8 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF
9 CALIFORNIA, 280 SOUTH FIRST STREET, SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, DO
10 HEREBY CERTIFY:
11 THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT, CERTIFICATE INCLUSIVE, IS
12 A CORRECT TRANSCRIPT FROM THE RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS IN THE
13 ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER.
14
15
______________________________
16 IRENE RODRIGUEZ, CSR, RMR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074
17
18
DATED: SEPTEMBER 30, 2025
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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS
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