From Service to Startup: Empowering Veteran Entrepreneurs (House Small Business Committee hearing, December 10, 2025)
Summary
Transcript of the House Committee on Small Business hearing From Service to Startup: Empowering Veteran Entrepreneurs, on December 10, 2025, published as Small Business Committee Document Number 119–025. Chairman Roger Williams and Ranking Member Nydia Velázquez gave opening statements. Witnesses were Kevin M. Schmiegel of ZeroMils, Misty Fox of the D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families, Christopher Lefebvre of ISI Professional Services, and Rebecca Aguilera-Gardiner of The Veterans In Business (VIB) Network. The appendix adds letters from the Defense Credit Union Council and the American Legion. The committee met at 10:08 a.m.
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“From Service to Startup: Empowering Veteran Entrepreneurs (House Small Business Committee hearing, December 10, 2025).”
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FROM SERVICE TO STARTUP: EMPOWERING
VETERAN ENTREPRENEURS
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
HEARING HELD
DECEMBER 10, 2025
Small Business Committee Document Number 119–025
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62–205 WASHINGTON : 2026
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
NICK LALOTA, New York
BRAD FINSTAD, Minnesota
TONY WIED, Wisconsin
ROB BRESNAHAN, Pennsylvania
BRIAN JACK, Georgia
TROY DOWNING, Montana
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern Marina Islands
DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
JIMMY PATRONIS, Florida
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
LAMONICA MCIVER, New Jersey
GIL CISNEROS, California
KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
GEORGE LATIMER, New York
DEREK TRAN, California
LATEEFAH SIMON, California
JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
MAGGIE GOODLANDER, New Hampshire
LAUREN HOLMES, Majority Staff Director
MELISSA JUNG, Minority Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Roger Williams ................................................................................................ 1
Hon. Nydia Velázquez ............................................................................................. 2
WITNESSES
Mr. Kevin M. Schmiegel, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, ZeroMils,
Alexandria, VA ..................................................................................................... 5
Ms. Misty Fox, Director, Entrepreneurship and Small Business, D’Aniello
Institute for Veterans and Military Families, Syracuse, NY ........................... 7
Mr. Christopher Lefebvre, President and Chief Executive Officer, ISI Profes-
sional Services, Sterling, VA ............................................................................... 9
Ms. Rebecca Aguilera-Gardiner, Chief Executive Officer, The Veterans In
Business (VIB) Network, San Diego, CA ........................................................... 11
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mr. Kevin M. Schmiegel, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer,
ZeroMils, Alexandria, VA ............................................................................. 43
Ms. Misty Fox, Director, Entrepreneurship and Small Business, D’Aniello
Institute for Veterans and Military Families, Syracuse, NY .................... 47
Mr. Christopher Lefebvre, President and Chief Executive Officer, ISI
Professional Services, Sterling, VA ............................................................. 57
Ms. Rebecca Aguilera-Gardiner, Chief Executive Officer, The Veterans
In Business (VIB) Network, San Diego, CA ............................................... 73
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
Defense Credit Union Council (DCUC) Letter ............................................... 79
American Legion (AL) Letter ........................................................................... 82
(III)
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FROM SERVICE TO STARTUP: EMPOWERING
VETERAN ENTREPRENEURS
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2025
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:08 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams [chair-
man of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Williams, Stauber, Meuser, Van Duyne,
Alford, LaLota, Finstad, Wied, Bresnahan, Jack, Downing, King-
Hinds, Schmidt, Patronis, Velázquez, Scholten, McIver, Cisneros,
Morrison, Latimer, Tran, Simon, Olszewski, Conaway, and
Goodlander.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Before we get started, I want to recognize
Mr. Patronis for a prayer.
Mr. PATRONIS. Please bow your heads. Dear God, we gather
here today. We have to do the people’s work. We need your wisdom.
We need your guidance. We need your strength. The decisions that
we are looking at making are going to affect millions of people.
They aren’t easy. I hope that we do this right by the folks we serve
but also right by you. Please look out for our families, as we appre-
ciate their sacrifices, as we are doing the work of the people, and
let us make sure that we always realize what is important for
those that we get to serve and never lose sight of that. Amen.
Please face the flag. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United
States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one na-
tion under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A matter of personal privilege, real quick,
I want to remind everybody we have our Christmas party reception
tomorrow 4 o’clock to 6 o’clock. Everybody has got something going,
but you need to be here because we are going to have a drawing.
We are going to draw for new car. Okay. Everybody signed up for
that. Right here.
Good morning, everyone. I appreciate everybody being here. I
want to now call the Committee on Small Business to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of
the Committee at any time.
I now recognize for myself for my opening statement. I want to
welcome, again, to today’s hearing, ‘‘From Service to Startup; Em-
powering Veteran Entrepreneurs.’’ I want to thank our witnesses
for joining us today.
And, to our veteran witnesses and Committee Members, thank
you for your service.
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In the United States, we believe in taking care of veterans and
their families with real opportunities that honor their service.
Today there is about 1.6 million veteran-owned small businesses
across the nation, which represent 5.3 percent of all U.S. busi-
nesses. They generate more than $900 billion in revenue and em-
ploy 3.2 million Americans.
Our servicemembers have been willing to sacrifice their time, op-
portunities, and even their very lives for our nation. Yet, when
they return to civilian life, many feel they are playing catchup.
While veterans were serving their country, their peers were going
to school, gaining skills in apprenticeships, and expanding their
professional experience. And, when returning from their life of
service, veterans must navigate transferring their military skills to
the workplace. And, unlike their civilian peers, veterans often lack
the credit history to access capital they need to start a small busi-
ness. And, when they leave the military, they lose the built-in sup-
port network and mission that shaped their daily lives, forcing
them to rebuild community and connections from the ground up.
Simply put, when returning to civilian life, veterans are search-
ing for their new mission. Veterans and their families are some of
the most capable, resilient, and driven people in this country. They
are innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders, and with the right tools
and opportunities, they can overcome their obstacle or setback.
Over the years, a variety of programs have been established to
support our veterans. The Department of Defense’s Transition As-
sistance Program, or TAP, and the SBA’s Boots to Business pro-
gram play a crucial role, an important role in that mission.
And Boots to Business, while helping returned servicemembers
find their next mission, is entrepreneurs by teaching how to get
started and grow a business. I am proud that this Committee led
the way in the fiscal year 2025 NDAA to make Boots to Business
a permanent resource for our veterans.
And, like you will hear from our witnesses today, veteran leaders
in the private sector continue to step up in ways government sim-
ply can’t, offering peer mentorship, business guidance, and connec-
tions that make all the difference in the world. Their contributions
demonstrate that veteran entrepreneurs thrive when they have
success and access to structured training, strong peer networks,
and pathways to capital.
As a Committee, we have an important role in identifying gaps,
demanding accountability, and ensuring federal programs deliver
results for veteran entrepreneurs. By reinforcing this partnership
between the federal government, the veteran community, and the
private sector, we can continue innovating barriers and opening
doors for every veteran entrepreneur seeking their next mission.
So I want to thank all of you again. I want to thank you for join-
ing us today. I want to thank you for what you have done for our
country. I look forward to the conversation ahead.
I now recognize my friend, the distinguished Ranking Member
for this Committee, Ms. Velázquez from New York.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
committee convening this important hearing today on how we can
better assist and empower the veteran business community.
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The committee has a long bipartisan tradition supporting vet-
eran entrepreneurs as they start, build, and grow their businesses.
I am working to create an environment that provides the oppor-
tunity for success.
Last year, this Committee worked in a bipartisan fashion with
our colleagues on the Armed Services Committee to codify the
Boots to Business Program in the National Defense Authorization
Act. Boots to Business is offered as part of the DOD’s Transition
Assistance Program to provide targeted information on training to
help servicemembers turn an idea into a business plan. Boots to
Business is an important and effective program: 22,000 veteran
servicemembers and military spouses participated in fiscal year
2024.
Unfortunately, many other programs and services that SBA pro-
vides are less secure, and veteran-owned firms are not exempt from
the difficult environment created by this administration’s policies,
including, and especially, tariffs.
In their first budget request, this administration attempted to
eliminate funding for the SBA Veteran Business Outreach Centers.
VBOCs are critical resources that provide entrepreneur develop-
ment assistance to veteran-owned small businesses across the
country.
When I talk to veteran-owned small businesses and their advo-
cates, I hear many of the same concerns as other small businesses,
that access to capital and the ability to secure the amount of cap-
ital they need can be a challenge, as well as reaching new cus-
tomers, hiring the right employees, and contracting with the fed-
eral government.
We know that among veteran-owned firms there are underserved
communities in particular, female veterans and veterans returning
to rural communities.
There are unique issues for veteran entrepreneurs, including ac-
cessing local resources after moving around the country and the
world for so many years. VBOCs and other specific programs have
targeted expertise and resources that can assist these firms in
reaching their full potential. We must continue to ensure they have
the necessary funding and support to provide assistance.
I look forward to hearing from the panel about what is working
for veteran-owned small businesses and what gaps we can fill to
ensure that the right services are available and accessible when
needed.
I want to take this opportunity to welcome all of you, and to
thank you for being here this morning. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
And I will now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness here
with us today is Mr. Kevin Schmiegel. Did I say it right?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Yes, sir.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Mitch Schmiegel is the co-founder
and chief executive officer of ZeroMils in Alexandria, Virginia. Mr.
Schmiegel spent 20 years in the Marine Corps holding senior oper-
ational leadership roles and training Marines for combat deploy-
ments, managing large-scale personal assignments, and supporting
top military leaders in high-stakes environments.
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After returning from the Active Service, he founded Hiring Our
Heroes at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, where he created a na-
tionwide model to connect veterans and military spouses with
meaningful employment.
He later served as chief executive officer of Operation Gratitude,
expanding the organization’s mission to support servicemembers,
veterans, and first-responders across the country.
Mr. Schmiegel holds a bachelor of arts in English literature. And
I am asking you how you say it. So make sure I say it right. Okay.
From College of Holy Cross, and a master’s of science in manage-
ment from the Naval Postgraduate School. I want to thank you for
being here and thank you for your service.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Thank you, Chairman Williams.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Let me move—okay. You are fine. Let me
finish this, and we will come back. Okay.
Our next witness here with us today is Misty Fox. Ms. Fox is Di-
rector of Entrepreneurship and Small Business at Syracuse Univer-
sity, D’Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families in Syra-
cuse, New York.
Ms. Fox has spent nearly a decade building one of the nation’s
strongest ecosystems for veteran entrepreneurs, coordinating col-
laboration between Fortune 500 companies and more than 34,000
veteran-owned businesses.
Prior to joining the Institute, Ms. Fox served as manager of
Oklahoma State University’s Riata Center for Entrepreneurship,
where she established a multi-university consortium, secured grant
funding, and developed accelerator programs.
Ms. Fox holds a master of business administration and a bach-
elor of science in business management and marketing from Okla-
homa State University and is an alumni of President George H. W.
Bush Stand-To Veteran Leadership Program.
We are looking forward to your testimony, and thank you for ev-
erything you have done.
Our next witness is Mr. Christopher Lefebvre. Mr. Lefebvre is
the president and chief executive officer of ISI Professional Services
in Sterling, Virginia.
Mr. Lefebvre manages a team of more than 50 professionals who
support federal agencies across program and project management,
professional, and administrative services, logistics, and facility sup-
port, and real estate consultation.
As part of his work at ISI, Mr. Lefebvre served in the United
States Marine Corps. His distinguished military service includes
numerous declarations, among them the Joint Service Commenda-
tion Medal, the Navy Commendation Medal with Bronze Star, the
Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, and campaign medals
for service in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the global war on Terrorism.
Mr. Lefebvre earned his master of business administration from
the Robert H. School of Business at the University of Maryland
and his bachelor of arts in government from Campbell University.
I want to thank all of you for being here. I now recognize the
Ranking Member from the great State of New York, Ms. Velázquez,
to briefly introduce our last witness appearing before us today.
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Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure
to introduce our witness, Ms. Rebecca Aguilera-Gardiner—like
Christina Aguilera, the singer.
Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner is the CEO of the Veterans In Business
Network. She brought more than 30 years of expertise from her
family’s second-generation SDVOSB printing business to the VIB
Network.
The network leads networking, matchmaking, and outreach ini-
tiatives designed to expand opportunities and strengthen engage-
ment between veteran-owned businesses, corporations, and govern-
ment agencies.
The VIB Network has received numerous awards, including the
2021 Calvert Award for Business Excellence and the 2019 Best in
Class Trailblazer Award.
Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner has been honored for her work cham-
pioning veteran entrepreneurs with the Veteran’s Business Enter-
prise Champion of the Year Award, the Leadership Award, and the
Women of Excellence Awards, an appointment to serve on the SBA
Advisory Committee on Veterans Business Affairs. Thank you for
being here. Welcome.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back.
I now, again, want to say thanks to all of you. And, before I rec-
ognize the witnesses, I would like to remind them that their whole
testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in length. If you see the light
turn red in front of you, it means your 5 minutes has concluded,
and you should wrap up your testimony. And you will hear this if
you keep going. The louder this gets, it says you need to shut it
down. Okay. And it will go fine.
And, also, I want to say, you will see Members moving in and
out. There are a lot of hearings going on today. And so, if one of
them leaves while you are speaking, it has nothing to do with what
you said or anything; it is just we will be moving around. So thank
you for understanding that.
So I now recognize Mr. Schmiegel for his 5 minutes for opening
remarks.
STATEMENTS OF KEVIN SCHMIEGEL, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO,
ZEROMILS; MISTY FOX, DIRECTOR, ENTREPRENEURSHIP
AND SMALL BUSINESS, D’ANIELLO INSTITUTE FOR VET-
ERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES; CHRISTOPHER LEFEBVRE,
PRESIDENT AND CEO, ISI PROFESSIONAL SERVICES; AND
REBECCA AGUILERA-GARDINER, CEO, THE VETERANS IN
BUSINESS NETWORK.
STATEMENT OF KEVIN SCHMIEGEL
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Thank you, Chairman Williams, Ranking
Member Velázquez, and distinguished Members of the Committee.
My name is Kevin Schmiegel, and I am the co-founder and CEO
of a service-disabled veteran small business called ZeroMils.
As a Marine veteran and entrepreneur, I am honored to rep-
resent the 1.6 million veteran small businesses owners in America.
My transition from the military was seamless, not because of the
Transition Assistance Program but through relationships built over
20 years in uniform.
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General Jim Jones, who I served with at NATO and in the Mid-
dle East, became my mentor and biggest advocate in transition. He
introduced me to the president and CEO of the U.S. Chamber of
Commerce, Tom Donohue, who gave me my first civilian job.
Tom became my mentor, too. He taught me how to be a CEO,
and he empowered me to start my own entrepreneur journey in
2011 as the founder of Hiring Our Heroes at the U.S. Chamber’s
Foundation. HOH was just the beginning.
After leaving the Chamber, I went on to lead two other national
nonprofits. Over a decade, those three organizations impacted 4
million servicemembers, veterans, first-responders, and their fami-
lies. All told, we raised $100 million in private sector investment.
In March of 2022, my journey as an entrepreneur took a different
path when I cofounded ZeroMils with a leader I have known for 30
years, retired Marine Colonel Paul Cucinotta. Paul and I started
ZeroMils in response to growing trends in the public and private
sectors that shaped a broken veteran narrative, one that has nega-
tively impacted propensity to serve among American youth. Our
mission at ZeroMils is to create military-thriving cultures and com-
munities, not military-friendly.
And veteran-owned small businesses are at the very heart of this
movement because we fundamentally believe we must play a larger
role in impacting our country, our economy, and our communities.
According to the most recent SBA report, there are 1.6 million
veteran small businesses in America that generate nearly $1 tril-
lion in revenue, employing 3.2 million people with a payroll of $179
billion.
While these data tell a good news story, they represent an in-
creasingly alarming trend: For the first time since the end of World
War II, veterans are less likely to own a small business than civil-
ians. 50 percent of World War II veterans went on to start or oper-
ate a business after returning home, defining a period of time that
was not only an entrepreneurial boom for veterans, it marked an
economic boom for the United States. This was the direct result of
the GI bill providing low-interest business loans, along with edu-
cational and vocational training that helped veterans gain access to
capital and the necessary skills to launch and grow their busi-
nesses.
In stark contrast, less than 5 percent of post-9/11 veterans have
started a business, and the total number of VOSBs has declined
dramatically from 11 percent of all businesses in 2014 to an all-
time low today.
There are several factors causing this decline. First, the post-9/
11 GI bill is structured to support education and training with no
equivalent benefit for low-interest business loans, making it more
challenging than ever for newer veterans to access capital.
Second, there is a fundamental difference in the advice, support
and services provided in transition. TAP is about entitlement, not
empowerment.
And finally, veteran small business owners don’t have a seat at
the table. We don’t have a seat at the table at TAP. We don’t have
a seat at the table addressing systemic challenges that veterans
face, even when we are best positioned to address them. And we
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don’t have a seat at the table in forming legislation and policy deci-
sions that impact our community.
So, in the absence of these opportunities, my company, ZeroMils,
is creating our own table for veteran small businesses. In 2026,
with our military-thriving action coalition partners, we are hosting
national and major events. We are modeling actionable community
playbooks, and we are creating a military-thriving small business
toolkit with the goal of reaching thousands of aspiring and current
veteran entrepreneurs, helping them grow and thrive.
To close, I have three suggested next steps for this Committee:
One, explore ways to improve access to capital for veterans who
want to start a business or franchise, including but not limited to
the GI bill; two, encourage other Committees that impact veteran
transition and quality of life to give veteran small businesses a seat
at round tables and a voice in hearings; and, three, increase access
for VOSBs on military installations, at TAP, at hiring fairs, and at
career-level schools.
Together these recommendations will educate and empower
servicemembers and veteran entrepreneurs to make better, more
informed decisions about the opportunities available to them. They
will increase the number of post-9/11 veteran business owners, and
they will enable current ones to play a larger role in making our
country, our economy and our communities stronger.
Thank you, again, for this opportunity to speak today and for
giving veteran small businesses like ours a voice and a seat at the
table. I look forward to your questions and continuing to serve this
Committee in any way possible in the future.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.
I now recognize Ms. Fox for her 5 minutes of opening remarks.
STATEMENT OF MISTY FOX
Ms. FOX. Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Velázquez, and
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity today to
testify alongside my colleagues and friends here.
I appreciate your leadership for empowering veterans to continue
their life of service through entrepreneurship and, of course, your
ongoing support for Boots to Business.
My name is Misty Stutsman Fox, and I am the Director of Entre-
preneurship and Small Business at the D’Aniello Institute for Vet-
erans and Military Families at Syracuse University.
Each year, we support tens of thousands of transitioning
servicemembers, veterans, and military spouses as they build busi-
nesses, careers, and economic mobility. Veteran entrepreneurship
isn’t just an outcome; it is an identity.
For many veterans, entrepreneurship is more than a career
choice. It is a continuation of service. It provides renewed purpose,
self-direction, and the ability to keep contributing after they transi-
tion to civilian life.
Veterans are proven entrepreneurs. Historically they have been
more likely than their civilian peers to start businesses, and when
they do, they outperform.
Veteran-owned businesses generate $1.3 trillion in annual re-
ceipts, employ more than 4.4 million Americans, and pay over $233
billion in payroll.
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Here is the bottom line: Veterans outperform their civilian coun-
terparts when barriers are removed. Veteran-owned businesses are
less likely to close. They have an 8.2 percent lower risk of failure,
and nearly 98 percent of veterans credit their military developed
skills, planning, leadership, and pressure-tested decision-making
for helping them overcome business obstacle. Military service
trains you to make critical decisions with incomplete information.
That is exactly what entrepreneurs do every single day.
Barriers are not about talent. They are about access. But, despite
their strengths, veterans face barriers they shouldn’t have to navi-
gate alone.
First, a fragmented support landscape. Veteran entrepreneurs
often describe the ecosystem as a maze and not a map. Without co-
ordination across federal agencies, VSOs, State programs and non-
profits, too many veterans are left to guess which door to enter.
Second, rural challenges: 39 percent of veteran entrepreneurs
serve in rural economies where the entrepreneur may be the em-
ployer, the mentor, the community anchor, but broadband gaps,
fewer peer connections, and limited technical assistance stack the
deck against growth.
Third, access to market opportunities. Here is what keeps me up
at night, veterans are ready to compete. They just need clear path-
ways and access to capital. But the bigger question is, are we cre-
ating policies that open doors or close them?
Two-thirds of veterans use personal or family savings as their
primary access to capital at the foundational phase—not loans, not
SBA programs. 88 percent of those veterans find the procurement
landscape difficult to navigate.
Veterans know how to serve. What they need is a fair shot and
not a shortcut. To meet this moment, I ask Congress to consider
four solutions that unlock economic potential, rather than create
new programs for programs’ sake.
First, strengthen SBA’s Office of Veteran Business Development
by fully funding VBOCs and public-private partnership grants.
Boots to Business alone cannot meet veteran entrepreneur’s needs.
Second, strengthen capital readiness and access, coaching, credit
repair and veteran-specific underwriting.
Third, ensure policies expand opportunities rather than limit it.
We need thoughtful policy that enables veteran-owned businesses
to compete fairly in the procurement landscape, streamline compli-
ance, expanded rule infrastructure, transparent requirements, and
meaningful feedback loops that build capacity rather than create
barriers.
And, fourth, fund data collection that measures real outcomes
from the SBA programs and resource partners, not just depend-
ents. Veterans don’t need guaranteed success. They need guaran-
teed access.
At IVMF, we operate over 11 training programs and navigation
services that have supported nearly 100,000 veteran entrepreneurs.
We have helped with 35,000 entrepreneurs get to the navigation
that they need. We know that programs like CEOcircle, EDGE, En-
trepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans illustrate what is possible
when government, banks, corporations act as partners and not par-
allel efforts. We know that public-private partnerships work.
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Take Michael Bower, a Marine Corps veteran, through our pro-
gram Michael connected with SCORE, SBDC, as well as CPAs to
acquire Eagle Metalcraft, a sheet metal manufacturing company.
He doubled sales and workforce in 3 years, and he was named the
2023 SBA veteran small business of the year. He said, ‘‘This help
is really what changed our ability to add jobs.’’ That is return on
investment, measurable, and jobs created, businesses scaled, and
community strengthened.
Veteran entrepreneurs are not asking for special treatment. They
are asking for systems that recognize their potential and remove
avoidable barriers. They defended the American Dream; they de-
serve a fair chance to build it.
I thank the Committee and look forward to your questions.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.
And I now recognize Mr. Lefebvre for his 5 minutes of opening
remarks.
STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER LEFEBVRE
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Good morning, Chairman Williams, Ranking
Member Velázquez, and esteemed Members of this Committee.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. It is an honor to
join you for a discussion that is not only vital to the economic
strength of our country but to the future of the men and women
who have served it.
My name is Chris Lefebvre. I am a Marine Corps veteran and
president and CEO of ISI Professional Services, a service-disabled
veteran-owned small business.
I appear before you today as a practitioner, someone who has
lived the transition from military service and now employers and
mentors veterans navigating similar paths.
When I left the Marine Corps, I didn’t plan to start a business.
I didn’t even know that that was an option. I joined ISI as an em-
ployee seeking stability and to make an impact. Less than 3 years
later, I became president and CEO, and I quickly learned that,
while the military prepared me to lead people, I didn’t understand
the fundamentals of running a business. I didn’t know what I
didn’t know.
What I encountered, and what so many veterans encounter, was
not a lack of capability but a lack of clarity around the require-
ments that I stepped into and the resources available to me. Like
me, veterans struggle because they enter an entrepreneurial eco-
system that is difficult to see. It is hard to navigate, and it is very
easy to fall out of.
And that is the central point of my testimony. This is a system
design problem, not a talent problem. Veterans bringing the quali-
ties that every successful entrepreneur needs, but they face an eco-
system built in pieces. Strong programs, but not a pathway. Re-
sources, but not direction. Opportunities, but not continuity.
From my experience, and from the data, four failures stand out.
First is navigation. Awareness of resources can deeply depend on
geography and structure, or, often, luck. Veterans often stumble
into programs rather than being led or guided into them.
Second, continuity. Even when veterans enter high-quality pro-
grams like Boots to Business or Focused Accelerators, the programs
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are not connected. There is no one handoff, no shared roadmap, no
follow throughs, and momentum stalls.
Third, capital access. Traditional underwriting models do not re-
flect the realities of service. Frequent moves, deployment, shorter
credit histories, these are structural mismatches, not risk factors.
Fourth, procurement volatility. Veteran-owned firms rely on a
stable federal marketplace. When policies shift through reliance on
category management, or consolidations that unintentionally limit
participation, uncertainty rises, investment slows, and it becomes
harder for veteran-led firms to complete and grow.
These failures come at a cost. And, while 1.6 million veteran-
owned businesses contribute significantly to the economic, millions
more veterans have the capacity to build and grow companies if the
system just better enabled them to move from interest to action.
The good news is that targeted practical reforms can close these
gaps. In my written testimony, I outline six recommendations that
solve the fundamental problem—fragmentation—by building the
unified continuum that veterans need.
First, establish a national navigation hub, a single front door,
digital and human, that triages veterans to the right programs at
the right times.
Second, standardized warm handoff between programs. This
turns isolated touch points into a connected pathway, from ideation
to launch, from growth to exit.
Third, modernize entrepreneurship exposure within TAP. Entre-
preneurship education through Boots to Business during TAP is a
game changer, but it should be mandatory, not elective. Consistent
high-quality exposure ensures that every servicemember under-
stands that entrepreneurship is a viable post-service option.
Fourth, modernize capital access. Implement the capital provi-
sions in the Veteran Entrepreneurship Empowerment Act, expand
early stage flexibility, and pilot structured uses of the GI bill for
entrepreneurship training.
Fifth, stabilize procurement conditions for veteran-owned firms.
Small businesses struggle to make multiyear investments when
goals fluctuate, rules shift, or opportunities consolidate beyond
their reach.
And, six, improve transparency across nonprofit and VSOs. Vet-
erans deserve clarity about which programs produce outcomes, and
which do not.
Individually these recommendations address the major pain
points that veterans face. Collectively, though, they build the con-
tinuum that the current system lacks.
We as veterans do not need guarantees. We need a system that
matches our capability: clear, coherent and built from momentum.
If we modernize that system, they will continue to do what they
have always done: lead with purpose, build with integrity, and
strengthen the economic and strategic fabric of our nation.
Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Velázquez, Members of
the Committee, thank you for your commitment to those who
served. I appreciate the opportunity to testify today, and I am
happy to answer any questions you have.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much.
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I now recognize Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner for her 5 minutes of open-
ing remarks.
STATEMENT OF REBECCA AGUILERA-GARDINER
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Thank you. Chairman Williams,
Ranking Member Velázquez, and distinguish Members of the Com-
mittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify.
My name is Rebecca Aguilera-Gardiner, and I am the CEO of
Veterans in Business, or VIB, Network. We are a crucial nonprofit
organization specifically dedicated to advocating for, educating, and
connecting veteran-owned small businesses and service-disabled
veteran-owned businesses with real opportunities in the corporate
and government marketplace. The VIB Network represents diverse
coalition of veterans who have traded their uniforms for business
suits, applying the discipline, resilience, and leadership learned in
the military to the American marketplace.
We execute our mission through impactful programs like our
B.R.A.V.O. Corporate Mentor/Veteran Business Protege Program,
which provides intensive mentoring and coaching at no cost to the
veterans.
There are nearly 1.6 million veteran-owned businesses in the
United States. These firms employ over 5 million Americans and
generate approximately $1 trillion in annual receipts. When a vet-
eran succeeds in business, they hire other veterans, reinvest in
their local communities, and strengthen the national supply chain.
We started the VIB Network because corporations were saying it
was difficult to find veterans for projects, and the VA search engine
was challenging to navigate. However, the path to success is
fraught with obstacles.
Data from our 2023 veteran business survey indicates that the
majority of veteran-owned businesses are small, nearly 90 percent,
with over 60 percent reporting annual revenues below $500,000.
I would like to highlight three critical areas where this Commit-
tee’s support is essential for veteran business success. First, the
federal government has a statutory goal of awarding 5 percent of
all prime contract dollars to SDVOSBs. Yet the practice of category
management, bundling small contracts into massive vehicles to
save money, disproportionately harms veteran small businesses.
This consolidation regulates capable veteran firms to permanent
subcontractor status stripping them of past-performance rating
necessary for growth.
Furthermore, large prime contractors are often awarded billion
dollar contracts with a stipulation that they utilize small veteran
businesses. Currently, there is insufficient oversight and penalties
when a prime fails to meet their veteran utilization goals. We need
teeth in these regulations.
We also strongly support updating the sole source threshold
across SBA programs, including SDVOSBs, VOSBs, HUBZone and
8(a), to align permanent tools with current realities and expand ac-
cess for small businesses.
Further, VIB supports H.R. 2804, the Protecting of Small Busi-
ness Competition Act of 2025, which will help VOSBs remain com-
petitive.
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Second, in the federal government, veterans have a setaside sta-
tus. However, in corporate America, veteran-owned businesses are
often not recognized as a diverse category in the same vein as mi-
nority or women-owned. Veterans are a diverse group by nature
representing every race, gender, and background in America. We
urge this Committee to encourage the private sector to standardize
inclusion of VOSBs and SDVOSBs in their supply diversity goals.
When major corporations open supply chains to veterans, it re-
duces reliance on government contracts and creates a more sustain-
able business ecosystem.
Finally, you cannot start a business or scale a business without
capital. Unfortunately, veterans have struggled to access tradi-
tional financing. Many transition out the service with gaps in their
credit history due to deployment or lack of tangible collateral re-
quired by traditional banks. While SBA loan programs are vital,
the fees and strict underwriting criteria often leave smaller veteran
startups behind.
Veterans have already signed a blank check to their country pay-
able with their lives. When they return home and choose to start
a business, they are asking for nothing more than an equal oppor-
tunity to compete. By removing bureaucratic barriers and ensuring
fair access to capital and contracts, we do not just help veterans;
we fuel the American economy.
Thank you for your time, and for your continued commitment to
the veteran business community.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
And we will now move to the Member questions under the 5-
minute rule. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Mr. Schmiegel, as a veteran who has dedicated his civilian life
to serving fellow veterans, you have first-hand experience in navi-
gating the benefits and the resources. So my question is, how dif-
ficult is it to navigate the business resources available to veterans,
and how can technology make it easier?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Chairman Williams, I have to say that when
I first started my entrepreneurial business, ZeroMils, we had to do
it on our own. So it was difficult to navigate. And I think the points
being made about that navigation and consolidating it under larger
nonprofits, larger VSOs is exactly the wrong direction to take.
Figuring out how to run or how to start and run a business is
part of the process. I think that the solution should lie with the pri-
vate sector. I think it should be private-sector led, and I think the
type of automation that we are working on through a military-
thriving small business toolkit will be with companies that want
small business owners to thrive, to make it seamless, to make a
dashboard that they can use at the start of their business, and to
carry them through so they not only have to start it, but they can
grow and continue to grow.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Ms. Fox, your institution plays a vital
role in helping veterans find their next mission as small business
owners through programs like CEOcircle and Boots to Business,
which you mentioned. And, last year, this Committee worked to
make Boots to Business a course that gives a servicemember an in-
troduction to entrepreneurship permanent.
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So the question would be, how important is the timing of taking
the Boots to Business course before transitioning to civilian life?
Ms. FOX. Thank you for that question, Chairman. It is extremely
important. Quite frankly, Boots to Business is the language of en-
trepreneurship, and the fact that it is hosted both here and
OCONUS is something that is extremely important as geography
should never ration your opportunity. And I think the great thing
about Boots to Business is that you have the ability to learn the
101 of entrepreneurship. We should expand it. It works. It works,
but it needs to work for more people. We need to have it be more
available online. We need to have it be more available with touch
points even after transition because we know that veterans are
starting businesses 11 years after transition. So to make sure that
they can continue to check in and understand the resources that
are there for them when they are ready is paramount. If we solve
for transition, we will solve for small business. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. And, Mr. Lefebvre, as a vet-
eran, you both employ and mentor other veterans navigating simi-
lar circumstances and pathways. And can you share your approach
to fostering veteran entrepreneurship and what others can learn
from it.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Absolutely. Thank you, Chairman. My approach
is multifold. The reality of what my testimony talked about is the
continuum throughout this process. There is ideation. There is
startup. There is growth. There is exit, and what any individual
veteran, or any entrepreneur for that matter, needs at any given
moment is fundamentally different.
And so, whether it is mentoring employees of my current firm
that are entrepreneurial in nature and how I can leverage SBA
programs, like the Mentor Protege Program, and entering into joint
ventures to help with real mentorship and support is fundamen-
tally different than my advocacy and support that I give institu-
tions like IVMF through EBV and other accelerators that can help,
especially those veterans that are on the front end of that journey
from ideation into building their business plan, actually letting
boots hit the ground, to take it from momentum, I look at each step
of that across the continuum very differently.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. In the time I got remaining,
Mr. Schmiegel, veteran small business ownership has been decreas-
ing over the years as fewer post-9/11 veterans are becoming entre-
preneurs. You discussed that. However, some veterans have found
that franchising has helped them achieve their dream of business
ownership.
So, from your perspective, what is contributing to the decline in
veteran entrepreneurship?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think the decline is largely due to the lack
of access to capital. You mentioned franchising. Veterans are actu-
ally twice as likely to own a franchise than their civilian counter-
parts. It is across the other small businesses where they are on
their own that they don’t get to achieve their full potential.
So I think we should really look at legislation that is out there
that will improve access to capital, and, also, take off some of the
onerous regulations that prohibit franchisers from engaging with
the small business community, the veteran who wants to own a
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franchise. The reason they are most likely to succeed as a
franchisee is that they have an SOP, they have a playbook, and
they have easier capital, access to capital than a small business
owner that is doing it on their own.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much. And I now yield
my time back and recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes of
questions.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Aguilera-Gar-
diner, you were a Member of the SBA Advisory Committee on Vet-
eran’s Business Affairs previously, correct?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Yes.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. What is the status of that Committee?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. The status is I have no idea. I
haven’t heard back from them. And we did a lot of work when I
was on the Committee, and, you know, I would love to find out
what the next steps are for that Committee as well. But I have not
heard any process, and I don’t think that they have had any meet-
ings since.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Okay. Did you see value in the Committee for
both veteran business owners and for the SBA?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Yes. There was a huge amount of
value in that being able to speak to the SBA directly, talking about
programs, talking about committees. We were actually on the verge
of creating a committee that was there to help veterans connect
more with corporations and leading that. And I really did see there
was quite a bit of value, and we were able to connect with fellow
veterans and organizations across the U.S. that are impacting vet-
eran business’ lives. So——
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. What happened to the progress made by the
Committee?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. I do not know. I wish I knew. And
I have reached out, but I haven’t heard anything. But, you know,
we worked—we had a couple committees, and we worked very hard
on creating this opportunity, new opportunity for veteran busi-
nesses.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Well, Mr. Chairman, here we are listening to
their stories and recommendations that you are making, but we
don’t have a way to channel those into SBA so that they could re-
visit, for example, the different SBA financing programs that they
have.
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Yes.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. And how to reach the veteran community. So
I will suggest that we should send a bipartisan letter inquiring as
to the status of that committee.
Chairman WILLIAMS. So move.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner, can you
speak to the importance of mentorships for helping veteran busi-
ness owners start and grow their business?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. I think mentorship is key for any-
one starting a business, you know, from the startups to people who
have been in business 5 to 10 years. And veteran businesses who
have been around for 5, 10, 20 years, having them mentor and
share their experience with fellow veterans so that they can get
past the red tape and understand which avenue to take, you know,
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really can help decrease a veteran’s time of struggling when they
are starting a business.
I know, with our programs, so we have two programs, our Vet-
eran-To-Veteran Business Cohort Program, which has a coaching
section, a peer mentor group, and, also, our Corporate Mentor of
Veteran Business Protege Program is very essential to helping vet-
erans succeed in business.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. Yes.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Thank you, ma’am. What I would say there is
we, as veterans, we have discipline in abundance, and we are tena-
cious as can be. So we can succeed on our own, and we oftentimes
do, but mentorship is a force multiplier. And what is lacking now
is simple education around what mentorship avenues exist. And so
a particular veteran that may be transitioning out of service or one
that has transitioned 11 years prior just doesn’t know where to
start.
And so, whether it be commercially, within industry and cer-
tainly programs and policies that are put in place, what needs to
happen is linking and connecting it all and making it accessible to
everybody to better understand.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you. Ms. Fox, are there opportunities
you see around any overlooked or underutilized ways of improving
outreach to veterans?
Ms. FOX. When improving outreach to veterans I go back to
what I said earlier around connectivity. I think veterans are a
high-trust group. They will often rely on word-of-mouth to under-
stand what programs are out there. So making those who have suc-
ceeded within the ecosystem ambassadors for the ecosystem will be
paramount.
In addition, one thing that we have to understand is that it can
be—someone should not have to be a subject-matter expert in the
ecosystem to be able to navigate it. So I think, as we look through
how we can do outreach, it is around trust, it is around timing and
making sure that, as they continue to move forward, we have inter-
ventions, and, of course, it is around that connectivity.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. Thank you.
Mr. Schmiegel.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I would just like to add that the answer lies
with us. I think, if you listen to Mr. Lefebvre and Ms. Aguilera-
Gardiner, that they said the same thing. We don’t have a seat at
the table. So how do you mobilize small businesses, the 1.6 million
across the country, to provide that mentorship? This isn’t going to
be solved with big nonprofits, big VSOs, and big companies alone.
This will be solved by us, veteran small business owners for vet-
eran small business owners. TAP is broken.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman’s time is up.
Ms. VELÁZQUEZ. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
I now recognize Congressman Stauber from the great State of
Minnesota for 5 minutes.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you,
veterans, for sharing your information with us. But, most impor-
tantly, thanks for your service to this nation.
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15 years ago my wife left service after 23 and a half years with
the Minnesota Air National Guard, the first female command chief
in the State’s history. We struggled when we were considering
opening up a small business with access to capital. That was 15
years ago.
I don’t think we need any more committees and any more meet-
ings. You said it, sir, 2 minutes ago: The answer lies right here.
You have lived it. You have breathed it. You have understood it.
You have had some ups and downs. This is important, that we rec-
ognize your value to the veterans community. We know the an-
swers because you have given us the answers. Now it is up to us
to try to help you out.
I don’t know where we are from 15 years ago to today, but I am
guessing access to capital, navigation, reintegration. We have been
talking about that for a long time. You have the answers.
And, Mr. Lefebvre, I will tell you that you said something that
struck me: There needs to be one single front door, and it has got
to be a double door for our veterans. Open those double doors, and
they are going to be connected to your great programs. One single
door for the veterans, double door, and you will all get the oppor-
tunity to serve.
I don’t understand how that is not done already. We have been
talking about this. We have to put our talk into action by investing
in your programs. And, when you talk about bringing veteran-
owned businesses to all parts of our conference, you are exactly
right. We need to take care of the veterans. We have always talked
about, and we will always support our veterans. Now let’s put that
into action.
You are all leading in your own respective rights in your own re-
spective communities. I am listening. Usually I have something to
pick on here. I don’t have anything to pick on. You guys are awe-
some. This is a great—this panel is one of the best panels that I
have seen in the 7 years on small business. Spectacular because
you know what you are talking about. You have lived it. You know
the hardships.
39 percent of our veteran-owned businesses are in rural America.
We can’t forget rural America. That is where the veterans grew up,
that is where they want to live and raise their family. That is
where they are going to die, and that is where they are going to
bring economic value.
Veterans are so important. The boots that my wife wore in Iraq,
her hat she wore in Iraq, and that funeral picture in case she
didn’t make it back are in my office today.
And many Members—this is a bipartisan issue that we can get
behind. And I thank the Chairman and the ranker for bringing the
four of you professionals, the leaders in your respective commu-
nities. The time for talking is over. We need action to support our
veterans. I ask each and every one of you to continue to do what
you are doing. We have heard it now. In fact, we have heard it sev-
eral times. It is time to put this into practice.
That one front door for our veterans—and, sir, let it be a double
door because we have got a lot of American heroes that can bring
their entrepreneurship and their leadership to Main Street Amer-
ica, and to rural America. We have asked them to serve our coun-
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try, given us the freedoms that we enjoy today, you know what I
am talking about because you experienced it: Upon your exit there
should be reintegration, that front door, and then all the options
should be there. We shouldn’t have to go down 55 lanes and figure
out where you should end up at.
I am committed, and I know the Chairman and both political
parties are committed to making sure that our veterans are taken
care of from start to finish. Thank you for being risk takers. Thank
you for your service and sacrifice, and to your families.
And I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Ms. Scholten from the great State of Michigan
for 5 minutes.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And thank you so much to our incredible witnesses today for tak-
ing the time to be here, helping us to do our jobs. For those who
served, thank you for your service. To all of you who serve our vet-
erans, thank you for your service to them.
I am proud to chair the bipartisan Congressional Franchise Cau-
cus, our goal is to ensure franchise businesses thrive locally, em-
power workers, and serve as a pathway to entrepreneurship for all.
It is notable that, while veterans make up just 7 percent of the
overall population, they account for 14 percent of franchise owners.
Mr. Schmiegel, my first question is for you, can you speak to why
franchising draws veteran entrepreneurs?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Thank you, Representative Scholten. First of
all, my wife grew up in Iron Mountain, Michigan. So, when we talk
about rural communities and empowering veteran entrepreneurs to
own businesses, we are living and breathing that right now. We are
moving to northeast Wisconsin, and I can see how what we are
doing to create military thriving cultures and communities right
there where my wife grew up can really change the paradigm.
And I don’t care if I have to model it in the town that I live, work
and serve. It is just like a veteran entrepreneur to do that.
The phrase ‘‘in business for yourself and not by yourself’’ is fre-
quently cited because it perfectly encapsulates why the franchise
model bridges the gap between military service and civilian entre-
preneurship so effectively.
In my experience, franchising provides veterans with the oper-
ational guardrails they are trained to respect while offering the au-
totomy and empowering them with the leadership skills they
learned through service.
The most daunting aspect of entrepreneurship for many veterans
is the lack of structure. In the military, survival depends on adher-
ence to SOPs, and franchising replicates this safety net.
Finally, the data shows that, when a veteran goes into business
for themselves, they rarely stay by themselves. Veteran franchises
are 30 percent more likely to hire other veterans than nonveteran
owners. Thank you.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. That is wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. And
we are obviously a huge supporter, and if there is anything that
we can do in the Franchise Caucus to elevate your issues, please
reach out to me or my team.
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Moving onto some contracting issues, the Departments of De-
fense and Veterans Affairs are the largest source of federal contract
dollars for both service-disabled veterans and veteran-owned small
businesses.
In fiscal year 2022, DOD awards accounted for over 42 percent
of contract dollars to VOSBs, while 39 percent were awarded to
service-disabled veteran-owned small businesses.
Similarly, 28 percent of VA contract dollars were awarded to vet-
eran-owned small businesses, and 34 percent to service-disabled
veteran-owned small businesses.
Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner, veteran entrepreneurs bring a skill set
and knowledge base that is advantageous for defense-related con-
tracts, but we all know these qualities can benefit contracting in
every industry.
What more can Congress do to ensure that these veteran-owned
small businesses have the tools they need to compete for contracts
in other industries?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Well, I think it is really important
that a veteran actually wins these contracts. You know, just to say
that they are available, but winning these contracts is really essen-
tial to a veteran’s growth.
And what also happens is, when a veteran wins a contract, that
shouldn’t be just a one-time thing. They should win contracts over
and over, and, also, grow from that. Every business wants to grow.
Every business wants to continue to win those contracts. So, by
opening up the SDVOSBs and VOSBs and the Rule of Two, these
are opportunities that any veteran, and a veteran can actually use
these to access these certification to grow their business and to
move to that next level.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you.
Ms. Fox, you seem like you want to say something. Yeah. I want
to hear from you. Yeah.
Ms. FOX. So, since 2016, we have worked with the Coalition of
Veteran Owned Business, which is a group of Fortune 500 compa-
nies who have said, ‘‘We will spend more with veterans than our
supply chain,’’ and when we see that—last year about $238 million
were made from connections that we made to those Fortune 500
companies.
What I will say is that training without market sets people up
to fail, and being able to make sure that those businesses are
trained and retooled and that it doesn’t require an onerous amount
of retooling between government and private sector is paramount.
We see great training programs out there. We have them. The Vet-
eran Institute for Procurement has them both in government con-
tracting and newly now in corporate contracting, and that training
and those peer networks of people who have been there, done that,
and that connectivity, we will continue to see more success.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you. Very helpful. My time has expired.
I yield back. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Meuser from the great State of Pennsylvania
for 5 minutes.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And thanks very much to our witnesses.
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And, particularly to our veterans, thank you for your service very
much.
So, yeah, like many, I have 45,000 veterans throughout my dis-
trict. Many of them are entrepreneurs. We certainly want strong
transition support, to reduce burdens on regulations, and ensure
access to capital.
You know, in my former business, we did our best to hire vet-
erans. I mean, many businesses do. You go in. You see their sup-
port and their programs. And they talk about it. They kind of, you
know, boast about it, which is great. You know, we want more of
that.
Nevertheless, I do sense, even though the dedication is clear from
all of you in your care for our veterans, I also sense frustration. So,
you know, we do; our government is bureaucratic. So we are really
dealing with two agencies, I guess, right, SBA and Veterans Ad-
ministration. We have Kelly Loeffler there at SBA, and we have
got Doug Collins, who is a former Member, a good friend of all of
ours, as the VA Secretary. We should be able to make some im-
provements here moving forward.
So, as I am asking you questions, please just tell me what you
want to do, what needs to be done. If you were here, what would
you be doing as a priority to help TAP? Like, for instance, Mr.
Schmiegel, Colonel Schmiegel, you mentioned that TAP is broken.
Well, TAP is a pretty viable—or, actually, it doesn’t sound viable,
but it is listed as an important program. Maybe you could describe
what we need to fix it.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think we need to start with why it is bro-
ken. Think about a servicemember at the end of their service: You
don’t have a captive audience. In 5 days, you are jamming a bunch
of information to an audience that is not really listening.
Mr. MEUSER. Right.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. And they have no context. How are they sup-
posed to understand the fundamentals of owning a small business,
or, in a gig economy, what job to have? We should be asking them
fundamental questions so they discover for themselves: What
brings me joy? What is my purpose? And what does my community
need from me? Or how can I make money or make an impact with
the next chapter of my life? They should ask themselves, what are
the five things they need to thrive? In transition, we are just talk-
ing about education, benefits, and employment in a gig economy,
instead of encouraging them to get these five things. Outside of
meaningful employment, the second thing is a sense of purpose
through continued service. The third is a connected community or
a tribe. The fourth is good health outcomes, physical, mental, spir-
itual, emotional. And the fifth is the ‘‘kit bag’’, those things they
need to constantly seek self-improvement so that they understand
the strengths that they have and they apply those strengths going
forward. All the other stuff that is part of a 5-day course is going
right over their heads. So we need to prepare them with the funda-
mental questions that they have in their lives to succeed.
Mr. MEUSER. Are those departments within the VA and SBA
sufficiently supported, funded? Do they have enough people in TAP.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think the programs are funded well. Where
I think the common theme today that you heard was access to cap-
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ital. Instead of investing taxpayer dollars in things that are not
having the impact, as we see veteran small businesses decline, use
some of that capital, use some of the funding to provide more ac-
cess to capital.
Mr. MEUSER. Ms. Fox—excuse me. Thank you. Access to cap-
ital, let’s focus there. I am on Financial Services, access to capital
is, you know, should be a specialty for small businesses. Tell me
what problems there are and what you think we should do to make
it better.
Ms. FOX. Thank you for that question. 37 percent of veteran en-
trepreneurs basically say that access to capital is a barrier for
them. And, if you look at it, typically they will need about $50,000
to start a business, but they are going to their personal savings.
They are going to those areas instead of loans. And why, because
as we look at TAP, we are not setting a solid foundation in terms
of credit repair. What do you need to do to be successful so that
you can then go start your business?
And I said earlier, when we solve for transition, we will get
there. 43 percent of veterans say, ‘‘We have a tough time with tran-
sition.’’ And, if you think about it, when someone gets out and they
are looking at what their options are, we have more corporate hir-
ing programs.
Mr. MEUSER.—your community banks’ cooperation.
Ms. FOX. They do, yes, but 66 percent of veterans do not know
about CDFIs, or any of those options as well. So the issue is not
just access. It is readiness.
Mr. MEUSER. All right. Thank you. Mr. Lefebvre, last word, I
only have 15 seconds left, on access to capital.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Yes, sir. I appreciate it. The only thing that I
would continue is in the rest of my testimony is continuity across
the entire continuum. It is not just about startups and access to
capital at the front end. It also includes exit. The SBA 7(a) loan
with a limit of $5 million from a loan is not going to help a veteran
that actually wants to pay that forward to another veteran inter-
nally. If you are trying to look avenues outside of private equity or
some venture capital firm——
Mr. MEUSER. We are looking to raise that up, so thank you all
very much.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Thank you, sir.
Mr. MEUSER. I appreciate it. And, again, thank you for your
service.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mrs. McIver from the great State of New Jersey
for 5 minutes.
Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member, for
convening this hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for their
service in keeping our country safe and for sharing their expertise
with the Committee today.
The mission of supporting our military veterans as they transi-
tion to civilian life and pursue entrepreneurship—the heart of the
American dream—unites every Member of this body. We all recog-
nize that these men and women possess a foundation of leadership,
discipline, and problem-solving skills that are invaluable assets in
business. We must encourage and empower them to build and grow
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veteran-owned small businesses. This is one of the most meaning-
ful ways we can honor their service and ensure our economy bene-
fits from their exceptional talent.
In my hometown in New Jersey’s Tenth Congressional District,
we see this potential every day through businesses like Dogwood
Green Dispensary—there we go—a newly opened veteran-, Black-
, and woman-owned business in West Orange. Dogwood Green is
the product of three lifelong friends who joined together to build a
business grounded in education, community empowerment, and
their shared experiences, all while employing hardworking people
and stimulating the local economy. When we equip veterans with
tools to succeed as entrepreneurs, we uplift an entire community.
To each of my witnesses, I have the same question for all of you.
Veterans sometimes struggle to translate their specialized military
experience into civilian business plans and projections when
transitioning to business ownership. What procedures can the SBA
standardize within the Transition Assistance Program, better
known as TAP, to ensure veterans consistently and effectively
translate their military skills into viable civilian business models?
Anyone can jump in and start.
Ms. FOX. Once we look at—or thank you for the question. Once
we look at TAP, I think one thing that would really help there are
those warm handoffs. Right now, we are expecting those who are
transitioning and figuring out where they are moving to, what job
they are getting, et cetera, to also navigate this landscape. As we
look at warm handoffs and to resource partners and trusted grant-
ees, we need to incentivize connectivity and referrals so that these
resources are at their first best use and also capitalizing on the dol-
lars that continue to shrink in the nonprofit world.
Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you, Ms. Fox.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think the biggest answer, again, lies with
us. Veteran small business owners aren’t invited to installations to
speak on bases and stations to have access to transitioning
servicemembers at TAP. They just don’t. It is the same big non-
profits with the big companies. And, in a lot of cases, the veteran
small business owner is expected to pay to play to actually get on
an installation. Not all of them get that access.
So, again, if we want to solve this problem, the answer lies with
us. Give veteran small business owners like the ones on this
panel—give us more access. Give us more access so we can share
our stories. You want to streamline frustration and confusion? Let
the mentors who represent the veteran small business owners of
America talk to the future entrepreneurs who want to be part of
this movement.
Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Thank you, ma’am, for the question. I will nar-
row my answer specifically to entrepreneurship.
We invest a tremendous amount into our servicemembers,
whether that is in a unique specialty or a generalist. The problem
with entrepreneurship is, even within TAP, it is still inconsistent.
As great as Boots to Business is, the deployment and delivery of
Boots to Business is highly inconsistent. Whether someone is rede-
ploying from Japan, whether they had a ship at sea, how they re-
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ceive the knowledge is inconsistent, so we cannot fundamentally
expect to have a consistent outcome.
The other thing that I would say for entrepreneurship is what if
we introduced it before TAP? You have a servicemember that is
riddled with questions about the future and the uncertainty, and
so they may elect to receive a class on entrepreneurship, but really
what they are wondering and worried about is what is next, period.
So what if our military service branches—and we all say something
to some degree that we want to return better citizens post service.
And servicemembers go into service for education, for different rea-
sons. What if one of those was this was actually a springboard into
entrepreneurship to deploy their ideas that they have?
Mrs. MCIVER. Got it. Thank you.
Anything to add in 20 seconds? I am sorry.
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Yeah. No problem. I think that en-
trepreneurship is valuable and having that mentorship and also
making sure that the veterans who are leaving know about the dif-
ferent options that they have available to them like entrepreneur-
ship and working in a variety of different avenues. Thank you.
Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you. Thank you all so much for your ex-
pertise. Thank you.
With that, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Alford from the great State of Missouri for
5 minutes.
Mr. ALFORD. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
Today’s hearing focuses on a very important mission in my esti-
mation. When our veterans return home, many of them want to
start a business and continue serving their communities. They
have the skills. They have the discipline. They have the leadership
that makes them a natural fit for starting a small business in
America. But we also know the reality is that veteran entrepre-
neurship has declined sharply. After World War II and Korea,
nearly half of all returning veterans started a business. Today, that
number is just more than 4 percent.
Our veterans today are not less capable than they were 70 years
ago. In fact, I think they are more capable than they were 70 years
ago, but we no longer support them in the way that we did 70
years ago. That is why I introduced the bipartisan SERVE Act with
Representatives Davids and Conaway. The House passed it with
overwhelming support. This legislation identifies the challenges
veterans face when starting a small business and evaluates how
military service deployment and transition affects the ability to ac-
cess affordable credit. Our veterans deserve better. They deserve
clear access to resources, to capital, and to the opportunities that
they earned.
Mr. Schmiegel, I want to start with you. Thank you for your tes-
timony today. In your opinion, what is the driving force behind this
precipitous decline, the shrinking rates of veteran entrepreneurship
in the last 70 years?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think a lot of it has to do with the same or-
ganizations saying the same things with the same agendas in
mind. Like, we are focused on the past. When I started Hiring Our
Heroes in 2011, veteran employment was at a historic high at 10
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percent. Over the last 2 years, it has been lower than 3 percent.
So why are we investing all of our resources on a problem that
doesn’t exist? Three percent unemployment for veterans, but we
still think that it is a problem when it is not.
How do we invest the same sort of energy, resources, time into
getting servicemembers and veteran entrepreneurs to consider a
different pathway? It really is a focus of emphasis. Look at HVAC,
look at SVAC, and look at the same players talking about the same
things. Do you see a veteran small business owner testifying before
the HVAC and SVAC very often? Ask ourselves the question. If you
really want to make change, put it in the hands of people who are
living, breathing, and walking in the shoes of the future veteran
entrepreneurs in America.
Mr. ALFORD. What can the federal government do to better sup-
port veteran entrepreneurs?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think we start with investing—investing in
them and make sure that they have access to capital. The dif-
ference in our environment right now in this culture is, in transi-
tion, servicemembers are entitled. We are talking about their bene-
fits. We are talking about education. We are talking about employ-
ment. What happened in World War II and Korea was we invested
and empowered veterans to come home and run businesses. We
need more of that and less of what is going on now. It is as simple
as that.
Mr. ALFORD. And, Ms. Fox, I think I heard you say in your pre-
vious answer to Mr. Meuser’s question that the issue is not access
to capital. It is the readiness. Please expand on that.
Ms. FOX. Yes. Thank you for the question. Veterans are turned
down at a rate about 6 percent higher than their civilian counter-
parts when it comes to capital. The issue is that veterans will not
go back. Unlike their civilian counterparts, once they are turned
down, that is it.
Mr. ALFORD. Why is that?
Ms. FOX. So, typically, it goes back to a high-trust organization,
meaning that once they feel like they are not able to access a re-
source, they don’t feel as comfortable going back, whereas a civilian
might feel a little bit more comfortable just trying it again.
In addition, if you look at limited networks and limited men-
toring, because of the nature of PCSs, you look at the fact that they
don’t have as many people to lean on to say what should I have
done there. And that is why we have to create transparency and
connectivity so that they are trying to figure out their business and
not the system.
Mr. ALFORD. Well, thank you to all of our witnesses here today
for coming here. This is a very important issue, and I am so glad
that our Chair and Ranking Member are taking leadership in try-
ing to fix this issue because it is an issue worth fixing in my esti-
mation. There is no better person to be able to start, maintain, and
lead our small business community than veterans.
And, with that, sir, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Cisneros from the great State of California
for 5 minutes.
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Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you
and the Ranking Member for this hearing today to try and shed
some light on what our veteran entrepreneurs need to start and
grow their businesses. I appreciate our witnesses for being here
today.
As a veteran and former small business owner, I stand with you
and I want all our veteran-owned businesses to succeed. But yet
again, we are having another hearing with no representation from
the SBA, and I am concerned at the SBA’s continued absence and
silence on issues in this matter—on this matter. Concerns raised
by Members of this Committee and by my esteemed witnesses—or
esteemed witnesses should not be ignored by those tasked with car-
rying out the laws passed by Congress.
I am the Ranking Member on the Contracting and Infrastructure
Subcommittee, and I can’t get a straight answer from the SBA
about the SBA’s contracting programs. Veterans have personally
shared with me that their small business contracts were canceled
due to the administration’s policies, and there was no action by the
SBA to support them. So I know the SBA either doesn’t care or is
actively ignoring them.
I join my colleagues in requesting that the SBA and the VA pro-
vide Congress with accurate data on the cuts at the VA and the
impacts they had on service-disabled veteran-owned small busi-
nesses, and we have been met with silence. When I asked the ad-
ministrator directly about changes to the FAR and specifically the
Rule of Two, there was no way to tell if the SBA had been involved.
The SBA instead has touted workforce cuts of 43 percent, which
has resulted in fewer SBA contracting staff to support our vet-
erans. The SBA has touted leaving major metropolitan areas be-
cause of politics with no regard for the thousands of veterans that
would be abandoned. The SBA should be here to answer questions,
and I hope the SBA gets serious about becoming an active partner
in our work to support our veterans, entrepreneurs, and small busi-
nesses across this country.
And, with that, I will start with questions. Just real quick, do
any of you know how many veteran-owned or service-disabled vet-
eran-owned small businesses lost their federal contracts in 2025?
No?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. I think it was over 900.
Mr. CISNEROS. Over 900. Thank you.
Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner, why is it important for veteran-owned
businesses that sole-sourced contracting thresholds be increased
across SBA programs?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Thank you. When it comes to the
veteran growing their business, sole sourcing is vital for them to
continue to grow, getting that opportunity that they may not have
previously had before. So being able to sole source to a veteran
business who is able and capable to do that helps them with the
small businesses win those contracts and also that the larger bil-
lion-dollar contracts that go to these corporations and actually
gives the opportunity to the small business to grow.
Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you. As you shared in your statement,
veterans are often also women, minority, or are located in under-
utilized communities, and I want to ensure that the threshold for
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veterans and all small businesses reflects the current realities and
that the tools to meet small business goals are available. That is
why I am introducing legislation to streamline and increase the
threshold across SBA programs.
Is this something that veterans and business networks might
consider supporting?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Yes.
Mr. CISNEROS. All right. Thank you.
Again, Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner, we should all share the goals of
supporting our veteran entrepreneurs in starting and growing their
small businesses. Unfortunately, over the past year, the SBA has
sought to drive a political wedge in that support and risks leaving
veteran entrepreneurs in Democratic-led cities and States behind.
When the SBA announced that it would leave Los Angeles, that
meant moving away from over 35,000 veteran-owned businesses in
the metropolitan area alone, according to the SBA Office of Advo-
cacy. That is more than the State of Alabama, the State of Ken-
tucky, and the State of Wyoming, as well as Iowa. 35,000 veteran-
owned businesses in Los Angeles alone.
What is the potential impact on veteran entrepreneurs when the
SBA seeks to abandon them in these cities?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Well, it would be devastating to
the veteran business community. When you are taking away that
instruction and that guidance to work with the federal government,
it—you are putting a muzzle on the veteran business community
so they can’t find these opportunities or even find out how to find
those opportunities.
Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you.
And just real quick, I also serve on Armed Services, and TAP
needs to be fixed, and I want to work with all of you. So please
come to my office and we can see how we can improve TAP. Thank
you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Wied from the great State of Wisconsin for
5 minutes.
Mr. WIED. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of
our witnesses for being here today and the important work that
you do for our veterans. I would also like to thank Mr. Schmiegel
and Mr. Lefebvre for your service to our country. Thank you.
As veterans end their military service, many face difficulties en-
tering the civilian workforce. In Wisconsin, we have over 300,000
veterans—with most being Vietnam war veterans, according to a
2022 study from the Wisconsin Veterans Chamber of Commerce—
and over 1,700 nonprofits serving veterans in our State, which is
eighth most out of any state in the nation. Despite the support that
exists for veteran entrepreneurs from these organizations and from
programs through the SBA and Department of War, many veterans
have difficulty translating their military experience into the civil-
ian world.
I will start out with Mr. Schmiegel. I understand you are—you
frequent the great State of Wisconsin on occasion. Florence Coun-
ty?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Yes, sir. We are just building a house in Flor-
ence County, my wife and I.
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Mr. WIED. Oh, that is great. So would you say you like Wis-
consin or Virginia better, sir?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. With my wife listening, I would say the great
State of Wisconsin.
Mr. WIED. That is a great answer.
Ms. FOX. Good answer.
Mr. WIED. Thank you. I want to make that for the record, Mr.
Chair. All right.
But you brought up a good point. Since veteran unemployment
has dropped to 3 percent thanks to great people like you and Mr.
Lefebvre, how would you in your—and we talked about TAPs and
the issues that you addressed there. How would you—could you re-
orient existing federal programs to better address some of the
issues that you as veterans—and I am going to open it up to both
of you, you and Mr. Lefebvre. Is that a possibility?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Yeah. I would just say the first three busi-
nesses I ran were nonprofits. I hate the word ‘‘nonprofit.’’ It is a
for-purpose business. And I raised $100 million in private sector
capital. I don’t think nonprofits should be funded by the govern-
ment to do this work.
I think, again, the answer lies with people like Mr. Lefebvre and
myself who were Marines and are living and breathing the chal-
lenges that veteran entrepreneurs face. That is why we are cre-
ating, at the community level, a military-thriving community play-
book. That is why we are automating a tool kit that small business
owners who are veterans and military spouses can use. I think the
answer, again, lies with us. If that is the one takeaway, we need
to give more access to veteran small business owners.
And I promise you this, Mr. Wied. In the great State of Wis-
consin, we are going to bring veteran small business owners in
great numbers.
Mr. WIED. That is great.
Mr. Lefebvre?
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Thank you, sir. Great question. And I would
differ a bit from my colleague here. I don’t believe there should be
a single point of failure. We are a component of the solution in
terms of private industry, but there is a long record of federal pro-
grams being highly effective. How we can support this is not the
addition of more programs. It is making a coherent link between
the programs that exist today. It is about defining outcome-based
reports and results of what is working and what isn’t, what needs
to be retooled.
And so I think we have a phenomenal capability right now. It is
just not streamlined. It is not coherent. It is unconnected, not just
disconnected, and that is why it is so difficult without, as I men-
tioned, a single front door to come in to understand what the path-
way and the map looks like ahead of us.
Mr. WIED. I tend to listen to business owners, people that are
out in the world signing the fronts of checks. Tell me how do we
do that as Members of Congress. What is your suggestion for us?
Mr. LEFEBVRE. One, I think we need to have a defined playing
field. When we look at VSOs or nonprofits, the accelerators, or any
program that has a mission, what are the outcomes? Are we meet-
ing the existing goals? Is there a clearly defined goal currently?
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And so how we can do that, I think, upfront is to create a study.
We can no longer build the plane as we are flying it, right? I think
we need to understand what we are seeking out to do, have a true
mission and a purpose, and we back plan from there. But we first
have to understand where is it broken, where are things not con-
nected, how can we connect and have those handoffs upfront.
Mr. WIED. Mr. Schmiegel, would you like to follow up on that?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Yeah. I think we have studied the problem
long enough. I actually think we agree. I am starting with the fun-
damental concept. So, if it weren’t a problem that big nonprofits
and the same big corporations and the same big VSOs—we
wouldn’t be here today talking about historically low rates of vet-
eran small business ownership.
All I am saying is veteran small business owners don’t have a
seat at the table, so start with that. If we are part of the study,
if we are providing both anecdotal and real data on our own busi-
nesses, what the challenges were, great. But I don’t think the gov-
ernment should fund another study. They should be looking at us
for the answers.
Mr. WIED. I could not agree more. You are the answer. You, the
business owners, the veterans that are out in the field out every
day doing the work, and you need to have a seat at the table. I am
glad you are here today. Thank you for having this hearing. And
if I can ever be of assistance, please let me know. I look forward
to seeing you in Wisconsin.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Dr. Morrison from the great State of Minnesota
for 5 minutes.
Ms. MORRISON. Thank you, Chairman Williams and Ranking
Member Velázquez, for holding the hearing. Thanks so much to our
witnesses for being here today.
In addition to serving on this Committee, I have the honor of
serving on the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs. My husband
and my father-in-law are both Army combat veterans, and I firmly
believe it is our duty here in Congress to provide veterans with the
resources that they have earned, including ensuring they are sup-
ported in the transition from military life to civilian life.
As we have heard today, many veterans choose to pursue entre-
preneurship to start their own business. However, making this
transition can be challenging for some due to a lack of access to
capital, difficulty acquiring the necessary and relevant training,
and trouble receiving contracting opportunities.
So, Mr. Schmiegel and Mr. Lefebvre, thank you both so much for
your service to our country, and thanks for being here today.
Would you be willing to speak a little bit more about making that
transition from military service to working at a nonprofit or in the
private sector and if there were any programs or resources that
were particularly helpful to you in making this transition?
Mr. LEFEBVRE. I can start. It has been some years since I
transitioned from the Marine Corps. The system then was not help-
ful to me. It was a check in the box. And I would venture to say
that, for many right now, that is a persistent issue. It is a gate be-
fore they leave active duty.
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And so what does that mean? There may be some meaningful in-
formation that is within TAP. Again, those that are leaving and
electing to take the entrepreneurial track because they have that
burning desire, that is fantastic. But, otherwise, most veterans are
looking at their benefits and what is next.
And so I think what is imperative is to have a handoff. TAP is
a class. It is a gate. But what happens thereafter? And it should
not be voluntary. There should be an actual handoff to another pro-
gram, another link in the chain that can help them along that con-
tinuum; otherwise, it just falls off.
Ms. MORRISON. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Mr. Schmiegel?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I would just add that TAP did absolutely
nothing to encourage me to be an entrepreneur. I was 42 years old
when I left the Marine Corps in 2009. If someone had told me then
what I know now, there would be no doubt that I would have run
more than five small businesses—three nonprofits, and two for-
profits. I think, fundamentally, we are talking about the same
thing.
So, if we are going to invest government money, create a network
of veteran small business owners that become a resource for aspir-
ing entrepreneurs who are leaving the military, let’s be honest.
Let’s not create false expectations and create an entitled post 9/11
veteran mindset. Not every servicemember is capable of running a
business right after they leave the military.
I started Hiring Our Heroes for E-5s and below, for junior-en-
listed Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen to find meaningful employ-
ment. They are not going to have access to capital and they are not
going to have the runway to own a business for the most part. Ca-
reerists, officers, staff NCOs—we should be talking to them at ca-
reer-level schools, not only for themselves to become entrepreneurs
and small business owners, but for them to educate and empower
young enlisted men and women who are leaving the military about
the opportunities that exist and open up their apertures. Ask them
those three questions, the five things they need to thrive.
We are not doing that because—when I was Lieutenant Colonel,
even in the Marine Corps, I could not tell a young Marine what to
do next. How could I know? I had never been in the private sector,
which is the same reason a lot of nonprofit leaders who are talking
about this who have never run a small business and have never
been in the private sector aren’t the solution either.
So I think it is this network of mentors, of us veterans—by vet-
erans, for veterans—by veteran small business owners, for veteran
small business owners—that is going to solve this problem.
Ms. MORRISON. Thank you for sharing. I think there is a real
opportunity there. Thank you very much.
Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner, during your testimony, you mentioned
that nearly 90 percent of veteran-owned businesses have between
zero and 15 employees, meaning that the vast majority are small
businesses. You also noted that when the federal government con-
solidates or bundles smaller contracts, it can put those contracts
out of reach of some small businesses, disproportionately harming
veteran small businesses.
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Could you elaborate on why this is detrimental to veteran-owned
small businesses and what actions this Committee and SBA should
take to ensure that federal contracts remain accessible to small
businesses?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Yes. Sure. Thank you. As small
businesses are the backbone to America’s economy, we feel that the
veterans is the heart of that backbone. And so, with that, I think
when you open up those opportunities and make them bite-sized
contracts, that makes it more accessible for the smaller veteran
business owner who is under a million dollars, which you find there
is, I think, over—actually, 500,000—which is over 60 percent of
when we surveyed our veteran businesses.
So, in order to have those $500,000 businesses grow to that mil-
lion, 2 million, 10 million, you need to make sure that those con-
tracts are able to be a starting point for them so that they can go
and access——
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady’s time is up.
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Oh, sorry. Thank you.
Ms. MORRISON. Thank you. Thank you so much.
I have more questions, Mr. Chair, but I yield my time. Thank
you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields her time back.
I now recognize Mr. Bresnahan from the great State of Pennsyl-
vania for 5 minutes.
Mr. BRESNAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to the Rank-
ing Member, and to all of our servicemembers and veterans. Thank
you for your service, and thank you to each and every one of you
for what you do for our military and families each and every day.
I guess my first question would be for Mr. Schmiegel. You men-
tioned a few different occurrences about not having veterans at the
table during those conversations. I am a new Member, so I mean
this genuinely. What are some examples that we could be doing
with the SBA and in Congress to make sure that those veterans
are seen and heard when they are going through the
entrepreneurialship process, which is daunting to begin with, let
alone transitioning from your service to the country and now look-
ing to be an entrepreneur? Is there any specific examples that you
can point out?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. My point was addressing the fact that small
business owners ourselves don’t have the access to influence the de-
cision-making process to help servicemembers who are
transitioning and even veterans who are in transition. I have had
seven jobs since I left the Marine Corps. So we are always in tran-
sition. We transform ourselves. We earn the title soldier, sailor, air-
men, Marine. We need to earn the title veteran, too.
The point I was making, if you—again, if you look at other com-
mittees that are part of the House and the Senate, you don’t see
small business owners like us creating a voice and having a seat
at the table. If you look on installations, it is the same big players
that have preferred access. Small business owners aren’t at TAP,
small business owners aren’t generally at hiring fairs, and small
business owners aren’t influencing and empowering young
servicemembers to consider these opportunities, whether it is when
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they are transitioning or later in life. We are not planting the right
seeds because we don’t have access. That was the point.
Mr. BRESNAHAN. So do you think it is that—you know, is it the
access to lending opportunities? Is it the access to counsel? Like,
you know, I am trying to think about—I was a highway contractor
in my last life. I am new to political public service. But, you know,
I was thinking about all the different hurdles and challenges that
we had to go through to grow the company and to be able to ex-
pand at the different demographics, and it was daunting, and I can
only imagine applying the same thing as a veteran. And thank you
for your service once again.
But is it, you know, making sure that we are driving and steer-
ing policies that are more inclusive to our veterans that are looking
to take that next step?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Yes. And, to my point about committees like
these on both the House and Senate side, including veteran small
business owners routinely rather than the same nonprofits, the
same VSOs, and the same big corporations that fund those same
nonprofits and same VSOs. We should just have a seat at the
table—at least one of us—on hearings like these. I think that
would affect policy decisions. I think people would be more consid-
erate about the problem that exists in this country.
Listen, this is a national security imperative. Shipbuilding, sub
building, semi-con, energy—the major industries have massive sup-
plier diversity networks, and we are seeing veteran small business
owners’ ship crash. Not, like, decline. Crash. The reason this econ-
omy grew and the reason the United States realized excellence and
became the strongest global power is because veteran small busi-
ness owners came back from World War II, came back from Korea,
and even came back from Vietnam, and they grew the economy. We
need empowerment, not entitlement, and we need veteran small
business owners as part of the solution.
Mr. BRESNAHAN. Well, thank you for that.
I am going to pivot over to Ms. Fox. Obviously, you work with
a plethora of veterans that leave their time in service and then
pivot into the private sector or to be entrepreneurs. How do you
navigate some of the mental health challenges, or are there any
specific repetitive trends that you have noticed for someone piv-
oting from a longer tenure of service into the private space?
Ms. FOX. Thank you for the question. Currently, some of the
fastest growing areas of veteran small business are those that have
spent 20 years in service and then starting. When we look at men-
tal health, we at the IVMF have several pillars, and we have one
that is around community-coordinated care. How do we get the
right person to the right resource?
One thing that we do is we are backing everything that we do
by data. So, after a program, we look at how many new connections
did you make. In our CEOcircle program and our EBV programs,
typically, about 98 percent of our graduates will say they made
seven or more connections. What does that mean? It means that
now I have an expanded network. I have expanded cheerleaders.
And, as you speak about mental health, we actually track that in
our entrepreneurs, and they have a higher sense of wellness than
those who are not serving in this area because of that connectivity.
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So I do think that, you know, data is extremely important, and
I do think that that is another way that we can include veteran
voices in it by understanding exactly their needs and wants and de-
livering on that in programming.
Mr. BRESNAHAN. Well, thank you, again, all for being here.
And I think, Mr. Schmiegel, you are taking the first step on
being in the SBA Committee here, and thanks for taking the time.
And, with that, I yield, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
Now, I recognize Mr. Olszewski from the great State of Maryland
for 5 minutes.
Mr. OLSZEWSKI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you to all of our witnesses today.
I am just really passionate about this issue and grateful for the
work that you all are doing in this really important space. I think
that, across the board, we spend far too little time lifting up those
who have given everything to this country, and I think it is high
time that we do more to acknowledge that service instead of leav-
ing people behind after that.
So I guess, in addition to the conversation that we have been
having today about what we can do from the business perspective,
do you all have any thoughts about ways in which we can merge
other veteran services with access to business so it sort of becomes
a holistic approach to how we are meeting the needs of our vet-
erans here in this country? And I am happy to just leave that as
an open-ended question to anyone who wants to jump in there.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think what we are trying to model—I was
part of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, and my
project as part of the PLS program was to model military-thriving
communities. This is a very complex and visionary concept because,
if you cross the border from Virginia to North Carolina, there is a
sign that says ‘‘the most military-friendly state in the nation.’’
Well, what does friendly mean? Are you doing us a favor by giving
us a job, letting us pay our taxes? Are you doing us a favor by let-
ting us run our small businesses?
So we are modeling military thriving across multiple stakeholder
groups, across the public-private nonprofit sector, and really fo-
cused on outcomes. It is fine to attract people to your State. What
really matters is you keep them there.
And if you look at the State of Maryland, you have 14 installa-
tions, right? So measuring how many servicemembers are
transitioning each year from Maryland and how many are staying
by creating a thriving community—not a friendly community, a
thriving community—and measure what matters: Affordable hous-
ing, healthcare, dual incomes, not just the veteran but the military
spouse.
After ZeroMils did a Military Thriving National Change Forum
at Georgetown in October of 2024, I went to 15 communities. I can
tell you what the best practices and lessons learned are. So we are
modeling military-thriving communities, and the first State that
executes that model will win the war for talent. They will win the
war for business owners. They will win the war for civic assets.
And I think this—this is a competition between governors, mayors,
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city councils. If they want our talent, if they want our revenue,
they have to go from friendly to thriving.
Ms. FOX. Thank you for the question. Eighty two percent of en-
trepreneurs are still starting businesses because of opportunities,
so ensuring that those opportunities still exist will be key.
I think as we look at, again, how can we combine all these
things, we host military entrepreneurship forums across the United
States linking together nonprofits, corporations, and those who are
not just VSOs in terms of how can we serve entrepreneurs, and we
have to do so holistically, not only looking at social determinants
of health, but challenges and connectivity as well. And I think that
that is why we are launching a member council tomorrow that in-
cludes corporations, nonprofits, as well as veteran entrepreneurs to
understand what can we be doing better from a policy ecosystem,
connectivity, and collaboration.
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. I was just going to agree with
Misty. I mean, collaboration, working with other groups, knowing
what other people are doing, you know, in a variety of different as-
pects, you know, from transitioning to start-ups to actually even
succession planning is all valuable information that any veteran
business needs to know. And if we work together, we can only help
the veteran business community continue to thrive.
Mr. OLSZEWSKI. I appreciate that very much. And our office,
as I am sure many Members of this Committee, look forward to
working with you on that holistic thriving, certainly in this space
with small business, but all the ways that we can win that war for
talent for America and for our communities.
Just to close, Mr. Chairman, on that point of partnership, I think
that is a really important theme there. You know, in good faith, we
do try to communicate with our partners in the administration, and
I know that, you know, I have sent letters of concern to VA Sec-
retary Collins and have joined myself and individually, and it is
frustrating when we are trying to advocate for all of these services
and all of these opportunities to not have a Secretary be responsive
to Members of Congress. I think that is the only way that we can,
in good faith and in that partnership, really understand what they
are doing and ways in which we can do better and be better.
And so to the extent, Mr. Chairman, you and others are able to
help us get those answers, we certainly appreciate that so that we
can take the lessons learned from panelists like today and really
move forward together. And, with that, I yield. Thank you all very
much.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Jack from the great State of Georgia for 5
minutes.
Mr. JACK. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to
thank our witnesses for your testimony today.
And if I could start with you, Mr. Schmiegel, I am curious. I
want to talk a little bit about—we have seen recruitment efforts ex-
pand under President Trump’s administration and delightfully so.
We see more people wanting to join our Armed Services. And I am
just curious. As our military plans to capitalize on that positive mo-
mentum, do you think communicating the advantages and opportu-
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nities for veterans to become entrepreneurs should be emphasized
as more of a benefit in our nation’s recruitment efforts?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. A hundred percent. I think the challenge that
we have with recruitment—I wrote about this in an op-ed in The
Hill a few weeks ago, and I said November 11 is not about serving
veterans. November 11 is about veterans serving America.
I think over time, since the Global War on Terror began, this
proliferation of a broken veteran narrative has shaped propensity
to serve and the willingness of young people. We have to tell the
stories of successful small business owners, veterans who have
gone back into society and have contributed to this country, the
economy, and their communities. The more you tell young people
that service leads to positive outcomes, the more likely they are to
serve in future wars.
Mr. JACK. Thank you very much.
I noticed a positive reaction from you as well, Ms. Fox. I welcome
thoughts from you on that.
Ms. FOX. Thank you for the question. I think that anytime you
can lead with opportunity will be great. As I mentioned, 82 percent
of veteran entrepreneurs see that as an opportunity. And what we
know is that, as you get out of the military, that sense of service
and those peer-to-peer networks are paramount.
We have the CEOcircle program that we run. Chris Lefebvre is
a part of it. We have seen those graduates through those peer-to-
peer networks get over $1.3 billion in capital and create over 650
jobs. So there is a huge amount of opportunity not only in the
small business area but also as employees for those firms.
I think one important thing is to make sure that they are not
burdened by the regulations and other items that are taking away
from the attention to starting and growing businesses but, obvi-
ously—as I said at the end of mine—that veterans have defended
and built the American dream. They need their opportunity to
make sure they can live it.
Mr. JACK. Well said.
And, Mr. Lefebvre, I am curious. As a veteran business owner,
what additional training or educational opportunities do you wish
you had received when you were still in the military that would
have made the transition to becoming a business owner easier and
more approachable?
Mr. LEFEBVRE. At the time, nothing. It wasn’t an idea that I
had. Again, I did not know it was in the realm of the possible. And
so, for me, offering an idea in TAP is a step forward. It is. But it
has to start before then, the communication, the narrative. But the
reality of taking specialized training, integration among a team, all
of the leadership experience that is built over any servicemember’s
time—it needs to be able to be communicated that it does translate
to the private sector. It does. And this is a viable option. But the
communication has to start far before they are about to take their
first step out the door.
Mr. JACK. I am curious. Just in closing, as we wrap this hear-
ing, Mr. Schmiegel, any closing thoughts and comments that you
think should be punctuated as it relates to what we can do better
to help serve our veteran business owners?
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Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think, as much as possible, to talk to other
Members in Congress. Whatever committees they are on, I think
there is a fundamental responsibility to include veteran small busi-
ness owners in conversations to get their input, to get their feed-
back, and to get the struggles that they turned into strengths, the
challenges that they turned into opportunity, the trials that they
turned into triumphs.
I struggled myself with mental health issues after I left purpose-
driven work at Hiring Our Heroes, but I found my way back to
thriving. I found those five things that I needed in life. Not just
meaningful employment, but a sense of purpose through service, a
connected community and my tribe. I took better care of my health
like I did when I was a Marine, and I am constantly seeking self-
improvement. I want the same thing for every servicemember and
every veteran.
So I think small business owners are at the heart of growth,
change, and impact, and we—we need a voice. We need a seat at
the table. So, as much as you can encourage the HVAC, the SVAC,
the Small Business Committee on the Senate side, Appropriations,
anywhere that people will listen to us, I think we are going to
make leaps and bounds improvements in what is happening right
now with the decrease in small business ownership.
Mr. JACK. Well, we are blessed to have sitting beside me a col-
league in my freshman class, a veteran who is an incredible entre-
preneur himself and an incredible business owner. So I am privi-
leged to have that leadership on our Committee, and I think as—
to you note, I hope more and more people get elected to Congress
like Mr. Downing who have that incredible experience not just in
the military but also the business life as well.
Thank you very much. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Dr. Conaway from the great State of New Jersey
for 5 minutes.
Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When looking to ensure that small businesses have access to cap-
ital, it is also important to study what barriers small businesses
face when attempting to access that capital. As Members of Con-
gress, it is essential that we find ways to remove those barriers in
order to provide the equity of access for small businesses across the
nation. One of the greatest obligations Congress has is to ensure
that men and women who served our country have all the support
that they need.
As a veteran myself and a Member of the House Veterans’ Af-
fairs Committee, I was proud to introduce the SERVE Act along-
side my colleagues Congresswoman Davids and Congressman
Alford. This legislation commissions the Government Account-
ability Office to study and report on the ability of veteran and re-
servist small business owners to access credit. This bill additionally
requires Interagency Task Force on Veterans Small Business De-
velopment and to—a report on an action plan to promote the pro-
grams available to veterans. It is important that this important
piece of legislation passed the House on the 24th. However, much
work needs to be done.
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Ms. Aguilera-Gardiner, can you speak more on some of the
unique issues that veterans face when starting the process to ac-
cess capital?
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. Access to capital is one of those
funny things that when you need it, you can’t find it, and when you
don’t need it, you know, you can get it. So, yeah, it is definitely
something that a lot of our veteran businesses have struggled with,
even ones that are quite successful.
One of our veteran businesses was just telling us that he was—
he has a $42-million business that he is trying to get access to cap-
ital to win more contracts, and he had a hard time actually access-
ing capital for these future contracts. He had to go several times
and try different ways to access some more capital in order to win
these contracts.
So we cannot have access to capital be a barrier for the veteran
and small business community when they need it. These are people
who have—he has had a successful business. He has shown that
he can, you know, repay these loans and this investment. So we do
need to make sure that we are just not rejecting veteran businesses
or any veteran businesses for capital on minor things. So we really
do need to pay attention to what kind of veteran business or what
kind of business it is and look at the bigger picture and access—
and give them more access to capital when they need it.
Mr. CONAWAY. Ms. Fox, you had a comment?
Ms. FOX. I would just like to—yes. I would just like to add a few
of the statistics behind it. Thirty seven percent of entrepreneurs do
face difficulty accessing capital, but 52 percent of all entrepreneurs
say that they need more tailored financial products as their fi-
nances grow. And I think that that is really important, is that it
will not be a one-size-fits-all model. That is why we like to say it
is about capital readiness. How can I get you ready for the right
capital at the right time so that you can find it?
And I think that is, again, back to navigation and credit repair
at an earlier time, including during transition, so that we have a
solid foundation so that business opportunity and business start-up
is more of an option earlier. Thank you.
Mr. CONAWAY. Go ahead.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Yes, sir. I actually grew up in the State of
New Jersey. My dad, a Vietnam-era veteran. I moved back when
I was young, and I spent my formative years in Toms River, New
Jersey. So it is great to see you.
Mr. CONAWAY. Oh, friends there.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. And thank you for your service, too.
I would just say we probably should look at what is happening
in franchising versus just small business ownership in general. I
mean, I think there are a number of opportunities there. There is
a reason veterans own franchises at twice the rate of their civilian
counterparts. And across all other businesses, we are seeing this
nosedive, so we should study the two and look at the difference.
ZeroMils is working with a company called Neighborly. It is the
largest home service and maintenance company in the world. They
were modeling military-thriving cultures. They have a goal of 20
percent new veteran franchise owners across the enterprise. It is
19 domestic brands representing 5,500 small business owners. Five
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hundred of them are veterans right now. The reason their pro-
grams are so successful is they provide better access to capital than
a normal business owner.
So think about the Vietnam-era veterans who are leaving their
small businesses right now. That is why we see this nosedive, too.
Let’s say there was a veteran named Joe who owns a plumbing
company. He could be handing that off to a younger veteran in
franchising called Mr. Rooter, right? We have to think about these
things and think about how we can streamline these processes.
But I think we should study the two. There is a reason there is
a difference, and any legislation that supports the franchising com-
munity should be considered as well.
Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Downing from the great State of Montana
for 5 minutes.
Mr. DOWNING. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all
for being here. This is a topic that is particularly interesting to me
having been an entrepreneur, having served in the military, and
having served on organizations that mentor transitioning
servicemembers out of the military careers and into the private sec-
tor.
And, you know, for me personally, you know, I am a little bit of
an anomaly. I was building a national real estate company—a com-
mercial real estate company when I got activated in 2005 and sent
to Afghanistan. And I was in combat search-and-rescue. My day
started at sunset and ended at sunrise. So, during daylight, I was
having wet-ink signature documents FedEx’d to Kandahar from
conduit lenders as I was building my portfolio. So, you know, I
have been in the trenches, you know, in more ways than one.
But a couple things I want to talk about, and anybody who has
served in the military understands this. You know, the military
members—servicemembers are particularly suited for building
small business. I mean, what are the issues that you have in start-
ing a company? First of all, you have to have some risk tolerance.
I mean, military, you understand risk tolerance. The other thing is
you have to understand the value of teamwork and having the abil-
ity to put together a team and to depend on your team.
And that is another thing that I think about often with these op-
portunities with servicemembers. When you are serving, when you
are at the peak of your military career, you are the best person on
this planet that knows how to do what you know how to do. You
know your place. You know how to do your job. You know that you
can depend on your team, and your team knows that they can de-
pend on you.
And you come out of that. You transition out of the military.
Let’s just face it. Most military members are not going to thrive
being a greeter at a department store. You have to have something
that drives you, something that has that risk, something where you
are building a team and working on that team.
So I think that, you know, the service community, you know,
post service is particularly suited for this. And, you know, we have
got about 1.9 million businesses across the United States that are
veteran-owned. I have got about 12,000 in my home State of Mon-
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tana. And I just really love this topic because it is something that
is near and dear to me.
I want to transition a little bit to discussing some of the barriers
that veterans face when looking to start a business.
Mr. Schmiegel, in your testimony, you mentioned that, for the
first time since the end of World War II, veterans are less likely
to own a small business than their civilian counterparts. You know,
from your experience advising aspiring veteran entrepreneurs, why
do you think this decline has occurred? Why do you think this has
happened?
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. Excuse me. Representative Downing, thank
you for your service, too, sir. I appreciate your perspectives as an
entrepreneur as well.
I talked a little bit about this in my oral testimony. I think if you
look at the GI Bill—post-World War II GI Bill versus today’s GI
Bill—there is a difference in empowering veterans who are coming
home to own a small business versus post-9/11 veterans, which is
more entitled. We are talking about their benefits, we are talking
about traditional employment, and we are talking about education
for a 4-year degree. We are completely missing the mark with the
younger servicemembers who are leaving and with veterans and
the opportunities that exist for them.
So, in post-World War II GI Bill, there were low interest busi-
ness loans. It is as simple as that. So, as we are investing money
from the GI Bill, is there an option—is there an option for veterans
to use their GI benefits to get the education, the training, and the
capital they need to start a business like they did in World War
II when 50 percent of veterans came home and started and oper-
ated a small business? That is the fundamental question.
Mr. DOWNING. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Lefebvre, from your perspective as a veteran business owner,
what factors do you believe have contributed to this decrease?
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question, and thank
you for your service, sir.
As you mentioned, and as I said in my testimony, this is not a
talent problem. It is not a capability problem. I mean, the entrepre-
neurial system itself has evolved in such a way. It is so vast. It is
so complex. And you have the transitioning servicemember that un-
derstands a truly codified system with guardrails on it—from
SOPs, from culture, from mission-driven—and they are leaving
that completely scared of what is next.
And so although we can operate in an environment that deals
with volatility and uncertainty and combat, the thought of what
happens in civilian life is fundamentally polar to that. And so I
think the fact that there is not this road map, there is not a clear
SOP or process—which, in the military, that is how we operate—
it is even more uncertain. So I think that that fear and lack of cer-
tainty aids in it.
Mr. DOWNING. Right. So I am going to move on a little bit in
the interest of time.
Despite developing skills in their time in the military,
servicemembers often lack access to capital and networks needed
for effective entrepreneurship when they retire. There are federal
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programs like the DOD’s Transition Assistance Program, SBA’s Of-
fice of Veterans Business Development, et cetera, helping this.
So I am going to move to Ms. Fox. From your experience working
with veterans through the Institute for Veterans and Military Fam-
ilies, how would you assess the current effectiveness of the SBA
and its outreach to aspiring veteran entrepreneurs?
Ms. FOX. I think right now, the challenge—thank you for the
question. I think right now, the challenge with that outreach—in
the interest of time—would be the connectivity. So making sure
that veterans know about the resources and are ambassadors of the
resources will be key.
Mr. DOWNING. Well, thank you. Unfortunately, I have run out
of time. I can talk about this all day. But thank you all for your
testimony.
And, with that, Mr. Chair, I yield.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Ms. Goodlander from the great State of New
Hampshire for 5 minutes.
Ms. GOODLANDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so
much to our witnesses for being here today.
Mr. Schmiegel, Mr. Lefebvre—tell us how to pronounce your
name. I have heard it seven different ways.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Lefebvre.
Ms. GOODLANDER. Lefebvre. Thank you. I want to thank you
both for your service to our country and your continued service to
our country as entrepreneurs and what you are doing for our small
businesses.
This is such an important topic. I serve on the House Armed
Services Committee, and I am really grateful that you are here
today. When I think about the transition from service to start-up,
it is really the ultimate expression and continuation of patriotism
in its purest form, and I am very focused and committed to doing
everything I can on this Committee and on the Armed Services
Committee to make the changes that we know we need to see.
You know, I am the proud daughter of a Navy veteran who went
on to start a small business. I served in the Navy. And every single
day on this job, I get to see in my great State of New Hampshire
what veterans are doing for our small business—for our small busi-
nesses and for our economy in New Hampshire. And, in New
Hampshire, we are very lucky. We are outperforming the national
average of veteran-owned small businesses. We have got more than
8,000 of them across our State. They are 7 percent of small busi-
nesses overall, which is above the national average.
But, as you point out very powerfully, when we look over time
and in our history, you know, at the height of just after the Second
World War when the GI Bill was written in a way that was going
to be most useful to us, 50 percent of servicemembers went on as
veterans to start small businesses. We have talked about the rea-
sons why that is the case. You know, this is—it is the teamwork,
it is the ability to transform challenges into opportunities, it is the
basic focus on problem-solving. You see a problem, and you find a
way to fix it.
And I just want to say I recently had a chance to spend some
time with a veteran who started a small business in New Hamp-
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shire. He really put everything he learned and everything he did
to serve our country in the military into starting a small business.
He saw a problem, which is that our country relies on China and
Russia for critical minerals in a way that is very dangerous to our
national security. He saw specifically that germanium, a critical
mineral that is used in optics that keeps our servicemembers
equipped, could be recycled and in a way that was actually going
to help our bottom line for our economy and for our national secu-
rity. And he started a small business that actually recycles germa-
nium and could be a huge—of huge value to our country. So this
is one of many examples that we see.
But one of the things I hear again and again is that the Transi-
tion Assistance Program—and I have heard it from both of you
today—the Transition Assistance Program, or TAP, is of very little
value to most veterans who go on to start small businesses.
I want to ask you both, having gone through that program, was
there anything that worked in it, and can we count on you to help
us think through the changes that need to be made to TAP to real-
ly make it worth our while? This is a program that should be doing
a lot more work than it is doing now for our country.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Thank you for your question, and thank you for
your service. As you also went through TAP, you likely have an in-
dividual experience.
What I would offer—I did get some benefit out of it. Thinking
back—and, again, I exited in 2008, 2009 timeframe—it was a very
different TAP then than it is now. And so I did learn about edu-
cation and benefits. And so for me looking back, in honesty, that
was the sole benefit.
And one of the primary challenges with the TAP program right
now is it is a one-size-fits-all solution for every servicemember re-
gardless of rank, specialty, and experience. And that is really chal-
lenging to be effective when it is simply a one-size-fits-all. What is
for a lieutenant colonel when he is retiring and coming out of TAP
and a PFC that is exiting after 3 years—those are two very dif-
ferent needs, and it just isn’t an effective program as it is written
now to cover that wide breadth.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. I think TAP has evolved a lot, to Mr.
Lefebvre’s point. There is an executive TAP course that kind of cre-
ates that differentiation so that careerists—officers and staff NCOs
that serve for 20 or more years—have the opportunity to learn
about these opportunities at greater rates than some of our junior-
enlisted folks that are in the military.
I think this is—again, I don’t want to be contrarian, but closing
apertures by allowing the same organizations to impact TAP with
a GS-12 who had never been in the private sector or even a non-
profit leader—giving them access over people who are actually liv-
ing and breathing the challenges is the problem. We need to open
apertures. We need to help servicemembers make better, more in-
formed decisions based on, like, what are their strengths? What are
their weaknesses? Like CliftonStrengths, right? What do you want
to do with the next chapter of your life?
The problem that we have is we put in their brains that they
need entitlements when they just need to be empowered. They
earned the title just like you did, right? You earned the title sailor.
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You earned the title veteran, just like you are serving today. That
is what I want them to know.
And that directly relates to the next generation serving our coun-
try. They see us as broken, too. Sixty two percent of young people
in America—this is DOD’s figure from 2023—think that every vet-
eran and every servicemember leaving the military will have a psy-
chological disorder.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman’s time is up.
Ms. GOODLANDER. Well, I thank our witnesses, and I yield
back. I look forward to working with you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
I now recognize Ms. King-Hinds from the great Northern Mar-
iana Islands for 5 minutes.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
the witnesses for making time to be with us today. So as the Chair-
man has said, I am from the Northern Mariana Islands, and the
GAO reports that we have the second highest enlistment rate in
any State or territory, second only to Guam. Right.
Which means that in a couple of years most of the people in my
community are going to be veterans. And there isn’t a single house-
hold in the CNMI now that does not have a veteran living in that
household.
I am sitting here and I was preparing for today’s hearing and I
was looking up some studies that have been done with regards to
some of the barriers that vets face when it comes to financial lit-
eracy and small business lending.
And this 2023 report states that the biggest barrier basically is
building credit and financial history, challenges obtaining financing
from large banks, limited networks, mentoring or business relation-
ships, low representation in SBA back loans, weak program, over-
sight and inconsistent support from SBA.
But when they conduct these reports there are no suggestions
sometimes with regards to how do we fix it. What is the policy
change. And I want to do less talking and hear from you, each of
you to give your insight. And we will start with you, Mr.
Schmiegel.
Mr. SCHMIEGEL. First of all, I think you hit a really important
point, like my dad was a Marine, my son is a Marine, I am a Ma-
rine, so this handoff from generation to generation needs to be ad-
dressed, too, and we need to make sure that we continue those leg-
acies of service.
You know, for me, the opportunity lies with actionable solutions.
So I made a point earlier in my testimony that I am not crying in
my milk, like I am literally creating actionable solutions with a
number of stakeholders in communities. So we will be in Charlotte,
we will be in Dallas, we will be in Southern California modeling
the solution.
I think small business owners are at the heart of this, and we
are going to mobilize big businesses, nonprofits, government agen-
cies at the State and local level where this will be solved, and then
replicated in other places. So the solution, again, is the most impor-
tant thing.
And in the absence of anything changing, we are going to create
a seat for veteran small business owners at the local level, model
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it, create the first military thriving region of the country, and then
show people what right looks like. It will be the small business
owners that will answer the problems that exist in this country.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you.
Ms. FOX. Thank you for the question. And to add to that a little
bit, if you really look at what gives strength in capital readiness,
credit and underwriting, coaching, I think that we have some op-
portunities to create veteran specific underwriting guidance that
might look at nontraditional forms as capital and revenue streams
as qualifying as income.
I think that we also have to look at what are the amounts that
veterans are going for. So if you look at startup, it is about
$25,000. And if you look at scale, it is $50,000 or more. That is
typically not a bankable amount. So there is a continuum of capital
access that needs better education around when do you go to the
right part of capital, and at what time so that we can lessen the
amount of denial.
As I mentioned earlier, veterans are denied at about 6 percent
higher than their civilian counterparts, and that right there is crit-
ical because once that denial happens, it starts to shut down the
opportunity of business ownership.
So I think through a connected network and through resources
that can offer in-kind provisions so that veterans aren’t having to
spend every dollar on every small thing, and, also, shared peer-to-
peer networks we will solve for capital access because veterans will
then better understand what resource do I go to, how do I get
ready for it, and how can I access it. And that is a big challenge
that we have right now, that veterans will look for capital in the
wrong places and that will hurt their chances to grow their busi-
nesses.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you. Mr. Lefebvre.
Mr. LEFEBVRE. Yes, ma’am. I think the direct answer to your
question is to look in the Veteran Entrepreneurship Empowerment
Act already. I mean, there is a waiver of an SBA guarantee fee for
loans less than or equal to a million dollars, there are lowered
down payments and equity injection requirements for small loans,
as Ms. Fox is talking about, and mandated data collection and
transparency on those SBA loans, for the direct answer to the ques-
tion.
But you mentioned something that is potentially far more impor-
tant when we think about the continuum here, it is financial lit-
eracy. And so what are we doing while veterans while still active
duty are broadening the nature of what they know. It is too late
when they have exited and now they are trying to figure out the
parameters of a loan and why they are not qualifying for it.
Ms. AGUILERA-GARDINER. I was going to agree, pathway to
credit repair, sometimes when you are looking for a loan as a small
business and you don’t have any options, you have to go to a non-
traditional and the interest rates will kill you. So, you know, look-
ing for financial literacy so you don’t have to go to those nontradi-
tional loan places. Thanks.
Ms. KING-HINDS. I am out of time. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back. And I want to
thank our witnesses today. It has been a great panel, and we ap-
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preciate all of you for your testimony and for appearing before us
today.
Without objection, Members have five legislative days to submit
additional materials and written questions for the witnesses to the
Chair which will be forwarded to the witnesses. And I would like
to ask the witnesses to please respond promptly if that happens.
If there is no further business, without objection, this Committee
is adjourned. May God bless, and have a great holiday and Christ-
mas season for you.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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