Executive Overreach: Examining the SBA's Electioneering Efforts with Associate Administrator of Office of Field Operations, Jennifer Kim (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, July 24, 2024)
Summary
Transcript of the House Small Business Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and Regulations hearing Executive Overreach: Examining the SBA's Electioneering Efforts with Associate Administrator of Office of Field Operations, Jennifer Kim, on July 24, 2024, published as Small Business Committee Document Number 118–056. Subcommittee Chairwoman Beth Van Duyne presided and said the hearing would focus on the SBA's involvement in registering voters in the State of Michigan, which she called unlawful and partisan. Representative Shri Thanedar gave the minority opening statement, and Jennifer Kim was the only witness. The subcommittee met at 10:00 a.m. and adjourned at 11:46 a.m., and the print notes that Kim did not submit her responses to questions in a timely manner.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Executive Overreach: Examining the SBA's Electioneering Efforts with Associate Administrator of Office of Field Operations, Jennifer Kim (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, July 24, 2024).”
Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/executive-overreach-examining-the-sba-s-electioneering-efforts-with-as-4f59024265/
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EXECUTIVE OVERREACH: EXAMINING THE SBA’S
ELECTIONEERING EFFORTS WITH ASSOCIATE
ADMINISTRATOR OF OFFICE OF FIELD
OPERATIONS, JENNIFER KIM
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT,
INVESTIGATIONS, AND REGULATIONS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
HEARING HELD
JULY 24, 2024
Small Business Committee Document Number 118–056
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56–139 WASHINGTON : 2025
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TRACEY MANN, Kansas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARC MOLINARO, New York
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
ELI CRANE, Arizona
AARON BEAN, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
NICK LALOTA, New York
CELESTE MALOY, Utah
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
JUDY CHU, California
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
BEN JOHNSON, Majority Staff Director
MELISSA JUNG, Minority Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Beth Van Duyne ............................................................................................. 1
Hon. Shri Thanedar ................................................................................................. 3
WITNESS
Ms. Jennifer Kim, Associate Administrator, Office of Field Operations, United
States Small Business Administration, Washington, DC ................................. 4
APPENDIX
Prepared Statement:
Ms. Jennifer Kim, Associate Administrator, Office of Field Operations,
United States Small Business Administration, Washington, DC ............. 25
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
None.
(III)
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EXECUTIVE OVERREACH: EXAMINING THE
SBA’S ELECTIONEERING EFFORTS WITH
ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR OF OFFICE OF
FIELD OPERATIONS, JENNIFER KIM
WEDNESDAY, JULY 24, 2024
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT, INVESTIGATIONS,
AND REGULATIONS,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Beth Van Duyne [chair-
woman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Van Duyne, Williams, Alford, Crane,
and Thanedar.
Also Present: Representatives Meuser, McClain, and Scholten.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. I now call the Committee on Small
Business to order, and, without objection, the Chair is authorized
to declare a recess of the Committee at any time.
Before we get started, I want to ask unanimous consent to wave
the following Members on for the purpose of asking questions in to-
day’s hearing.
We have two Representatives from the full Committee, Mr. Dan
Meuser from Pennsylvania and Ms. Hillary Scholten from Michi-
gan. In addition, we have Representative Lisa McClain from Michi-
gan.
Without objection, so ordered.
I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
Good morning and welcome to today’s hearing, which will focus
on the SBA’s unlawful involvement in registering voters in the
State of Michigan. We are seriously concerned that these actions
are unlawful and that the SBA is engaging in partisan activities
to the detriment of small business owners.
Since your signature is at the bottom of this agreement between
the SBA and Michigan, Ms. Kim, we look forward to hearing from
you and getting answers for the American people during our con-
versation today.
As this Committee has pointed out many times before, the SBA
can’t even handle their current responsibilities. We have heard
from the Administrator herself that the SBA does not have the re-
sources to do what they are statutorily mandated to do, let alone
engage in electioneering.
(1)
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In fact, we heard from several small businesses, like the Silver
Star Bar in Maybee, Michigan, that the SBA is failing small busi-
ness owners.
The Silver Star Bar is not alone. I would like to read a quote
from Dr. Chad Savage on the status of SBA assistance in Michigan.
Quote, ‘‘As a proud small business owner in Michigan, I expect
the SBA to provide support and guidance to small businesses. How-
ever, instead of focusing on aiding and assisting small businesses
like mine, the Biden-Harris administration is diverting taxpayer
funds toward voter registration. This misallocation of resources for
partisan purposes is frustrating and undermines the critical sup-
port that we need for small businesses.’’
The Small Business Association of Michigan found that 50 per-
cent of small business owners in Michigan report not being opti-
mistic about their prospects over the next 6 months.
I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit the survey into
the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
A recent CNBC poll found 86 percent of small business owners
feel that they have no voice in policymaking. The SBA is supposed
to be their voice and is failing miserably.
The SBA’s sole mission is to support small businesses. It has no
authority to meddle in electioneering. And by entering into a
memorandum of understanding with a battleground State like
Michigan to facilitate voter registration, the SBA has stepped far
beyond its intended role.
This move by the SBA, which they assert is taken under Execu-
tive Order 14019, also raises serious legal questions.
The SBA has tried to convince us that this memorandum, when-
ever they started implementing it, will be done in a nonpartisan
manner.
Yet, the Administrator determines where she travels, and this
Committee has found she chooses to visit areas with overwhelm-
ingly Democrat voters. We have no reason to believe that this will
change.
Moreover, the SBA’s recent actions have blurred the line between
advocating for small businesses and serving as a political arm of
the Biden-Harris administration.
We know the SBA has been heavily involved in Michigan. The
Administrator has traveled to Michigan more than any other State
during her tenure. We learned from emails produced by the Michi-
gan Department of State that Governor Whitmer was involved in
the planning process of this memorandum, and just this week she
was announced as Co-Chair to the Harris for President campaign.
Further, as noted on the SBA’s website, your background, Ms.
Kim, fails to highlight any experience in helping small businesses
but rather highlights your years of experience in, quote, ‘‘increasing
voter registration in communities of color, as well as promoting
youth civic engagement,’’ unquote.
For obvious reasons, we have a lot of questions.
I think we can all agree that the federal government’s involve-
ment in State elections goes against constitutional principles, and
the SBA has circumvented established protocols, further eroding
confidence in its impartiality.
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For the sake of our job creators, this agency must return to its
core mission to reestablish trust and credibility. We charge the
SBA to realign their efforts with the needs of American entre-
preneurs, addressing concerns such as regulatory burdens and eco-
nomic recovery. The future of our nation’s small business depends
on it.
Ms. Kim, thank you for joining us today, and we look forward to
the conversation ahead and finding answers to the many concerns
that this Committee has raised about apparent electioneering.
With that, I yield to our distinguished Ranking Member from
Michigan, Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. THANEDAR. Good morning and thank you, Madam Chair-
woman.
Let me begin by stating that I am honored to be appointed the
Ranking Member of this Subcommittee, and I look forward to work-
ing with you.
My hope is that we can turn our focus to the bipartisan issues
that will aid our 33 million small businesses in the remaining time
that we have.
With that said, I am particularly troubled with the focus of the
hearing today.
In April, the majority launched an investigation into SBA’s
memorandum of understanding with the Michigan Department of
State to promote voter registration. I think we can all agree that
encouraging people to exercise their right to vote is a good thing.
The majority has launched an outlandish investigation resulting
in multiple subpoenas of public servants, oversight letters demand-
ing documents without a real scope from various offices within SBA
and independent stakeholders, the White House, and many, many
others.
I am concerned with the heavy-handedness of this investigation
and the twisting of the facts.
And small businesses are getting the short end of the stick. Lim-
ited SBA resources are being diverted to unreasonable demands for
information from the majority.
Let’s set the record straight. The bipartisan National Voter Reg-
istration Act allows States to designate federal agencies as voter
registration agencies.
To that end, SBA and the Michigan Department of State signed
a memorandum of understanding, or MOU, allowing the Michigan
Department of State to create a unique URL to place on SBA’s
website to drive online voting registration.
It also permits the Michigan Department of State to register vot-
ers at SBA district office outreach events in Michigan. The costs to
the American taxpayer are minimal, and despite loud claims to the
contrary, resources are not being diverted from small businesses.
The Committee was briefed by Ms. Jennifer Kim, in which all
this information was shared. SBA provided the majority with some
of the thousands of pages of documents requested.
We have had a hearing where the majority claims were thor-
oughly debunked. We have sat through two transcribed interviews
of SBA employees. And yet, no evidence has been uncovered to sup-
port their claims.
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It is unsettling, and I joined the Small Business Committee to
share my experience as a scientist and a small business owner,
among other important main street priorities for this Congress.
I had high hopes for my first term here, real opportunities to ad-
dress actual issues affecting everyday Americans alongside peers
across the aisle. That is what normally happens on this Committee.
But this year has been far from normal. Rather than focusing on
real world issues American small business owners think about
every day—capital access, a strong workforce, government con-
tracts, and, most importantly, the small business boom President
Biden has brought America in the wake of the COVID pandemic—
we are holding a hearing on a sham investigation, and it is a
shame.
I look forward to hearing from Associate Administrator Kim with
the hope of getting more of the facts in the record and hopefully
put an end to this investigation.
Thank you for being here today.
And I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
It is my privilege today to introduce our witness, Ms. Jennifer
Kim. Ms. Kim is the Associate Administrator of the Office of Field
Operations in the Small Business Administration at the SBA. Ms.
Kim oversees 68 district offices and 10 regional offices throughout
the country.
Ms. Kim has over 15 years of experience in advocacy, including
working as State director for the New Jersey Public Interest Re-
search Group, program director for Everybody Votes, and deputy
national organizing director for Biden for President.
Ms. Kim holds a bachelor of arts in history from the University
of Michigan and a master of public administration from Columbia
University.
Ms. Kim, thank you for joining us today, and I am looking for-
ward to today’s important conversation.
You are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MS. JENNIFER KIM, ASSOCIATE ADMINIS-
TRATOR, OFFICE OF FIELD OPERATIONS, U.S. SMALL BUSI-
NESS ADMINISTRATION
Ms. KIM. Thank you, Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Van Duyne and Ranking Member Thanedar, I am
honored to appear before this Subcommittee to discuss the work of
the U.S. Small Business Administration’s Office of Field Operations
and the implementation of President Biden’s Executive Order
14019.
I assumed the position of Associate Administrator for the Office
of Field Operations with a background in field organizing and man-
aging field offices. For nearly two decades, I have worked to ad-
vance the public interest in a variety of nonprofit and political
roles, operating at the local, State, and national level.
Throughout my career, I have worked with stakeholders span-
ning the ideological spectrum, from small business groups to the
AARP. For example, during my time directing the New Jersey Pub-
lic Interest Research Group, I worked to bring down the high cost
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of energy, protect communities from toxic chemicals, and improve
access to healthcare.
In March of 2022, I was appointed to my current position as As-
sociate Administrator of the Office of Field Operations. In this role,
I oversee 650 staff across our 10 regional and 68 district offices,
and this team works tirelessly every day to connect small busi-
nesses to SBA resources.
Most recently, SBA helped enroll more than 167,000 COVID-19
EIDL borrowers in the Hardship Accommodation Program to be-
come current on their loan payments and assisted more than
33,000 borrowers in securing full or partial PPP forgiveness,
thanks in large part due to the outreach and support provided by
the district offices.
SBA’s district offices are at the forefront of supporting the more
than 18 million new small business starts under the Biden-Harris
administration. No matter where you live in the country, small
businesses have an invaluable resource in their communities by
way of their dedicated and hardworking district office staff.
Turning to the focus of today’s hearing, I welcome the oppor-
tunity to share more about SBA’s work to implement the executive
order to promote access to voter registration and voting information
for all eligible Americans.
In 2021, President Biden issued this executive order asking fed-
eral agencies to consider ways to ensure all eligible citizens can
freely participate in the electoral process.
And supporting voter registration has long had bipartisan con-
sensus in Congress. In the National Voter Registration Act of 1993,
also known as the NVRA, Congress found that, quote, ‘‘The right
of citizens of the United States to vote is a fundamental right,’’ and
that, ‘‘It is the duty of the federal, state, and local governments to
promote the exercise of that right,’’ end quote.
The NVRA required certain State agencies to provide non-
partisan voter registration opportunities, including at your local
DMV, and expressly authorized the State to request that federal
agencies accept designation to provide similar nonpartisan voter
registration assistance.
SBA’s intent to implement this executive order has been public
for several years. SBA informed the House Committee more than
2 years ago that we planned to partner with the State of Michigan.
And when I arrived in 2022, the Office of Field Operations and
Office of General Counsel were already coordinating with the
Michigan Department of State, MDOS, to finalize operational and
legal details.
In March of this year, SBA announced that we had completed a
memorandum of understanding with MDOS.
SBA has been transparent in responding to the Committee’s re-
quests for information from the outset. Administrator Guzman tes-
tified about this initiative in March and in a previous hearing. SBA
has written four formal responses to Chairman Williams on this
issue, including sharing the MOU and emails between SBA officials
in the State of Michigan.
And on May 3, earlier this year, I briefed the Committee staff re-
garding the MOU, detailing the ways in which SBA intends to par-
ticipate.
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As previously communicated, SBA’s involvement is limited to the
following.
Number one, a website link. SBA plans to provide a link to the
Michigan Department of State online voter registration center on
SBA’s Michigan district office website and other SBA materials.
That link is not yet in use.
And two, small business events. SBA may invite Michigan De-
partment of State personnel to register voters at small business re-
source fairs or similar events. They have not yet joined any SBA
events to do so.
The MOU is also very clear about the agency’s participation in
the safeguards that prevent SBA employees from partisan activity.
Section X of the MOU includes the following: Makes clear that SBA
employees are prohibited from seeking to influence an applicant’s
political preference, displaying any political preference or party al-
legiance.
And I hope that the Committee will recognize this work for what
it is—an effort to provide small businesses with an additional re-
source and to encourage more people to register to vote and be ac-
tive participants in our democracy.
Congress authorized and encouraged this important work more
than 30 years ago through the NVRA, and SBA is proud to do its
part.
I thank the Committee for your partnership with our district of-
fices, and I look forward to answering your questions.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Great. Thank you very much.
The Chair now recognizes Chairman Williams for 5 minutes for
his opening statement.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Good morning and thank you for being here
today. I want to thank my fellow Texan, Chairman Van Duyne, for
holding today’s Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
hearing on the SBA’s electioneering efforts.
To start off, I would like to thank Ms. Kim for joining us again,
and our Members have a lot of questions regarding the SBA’s ac-
tivities and appreciate you coming before us to give us the answers
we have been seeking.
Now, to put this simply, the SBA’s voter registration scheme is
a serious problem that is made even worse by the fact that we are
heading into a Presidential election.
Now, while Main Street America is facing a whole host of prob-
lems, it is extremely problematic that the SBA spent over a year
drafting this agreement to register voters in Democrat strongholds.
Now, it is truly unfortunate to feel a federal agency blatantly lose
interest in their core mission to focus on an upcoming election.
The Committee has been investigating these electioneering ef-
forts for some time now, and the SBA has stonewalled us at every
single turn.
To Ms. Kim, I would like to let you know we would rather work
with you than against you, but it is a two-way street. You are the
individual that signed the MOU with the State of Michigan and,
therefore, you are the individual that must answer for it. So I sin-
cerely hope that you can answer our questions today.
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We have a duty to taxpayers to bring transparency to this issue,
and we intend to fulfill that obligation. So I look forward to today’s
conversations.
And I yield my time back.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much.
We will now move to the Member questions under the 5-minute
rule, and I recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Ms. Kim, are you aware of the memorandum of understanding
between the Michigan Department of State and the SBA?
Ms. KIM. Yes, I am aware of the MOU.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. And you read it?
Ms. KIM. Yes.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Did you help negotiate it?
Ms. KIM. I didn’t—I am not a lawyer, so I did not negotiate the
legal details, but I did——
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. No, but did you negotiate the pulp
of the MOU?
Ms. KIM. I weighed in on recommending that we utilize the
website to primarily be the way that we refer people to voter reg-
istration.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay. And then—and you signed it?
Ms. KIM. Yes, I did.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So are you in charge of imple-
menting the MOU?
Ms. KIM. Yes, the Office of Field Operations is, which is the de-
partment that I oversee.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay. So what is the effective date
of the MOU?
Ms. KIM. I will admit I can’t remember the exact date, but I be-
lieve we signed it in mid-March.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So to be clear, it is in effect right
now?
Ms. KIM. Yes, the MOU has been completed.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Because when the Administrator
was here, my friends on the other side of the aisle insisted that
this MOU was not in effect. But that isn’t true because it was in
effect the day that you signed it.
Ms. KIM. It is in effect, but we haven’t actually done any of the
activities that are included in the MOU yet.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So you don’t have a—it wasn’t re-
quired that you had a unique URL to actually register voters?
Ms. KIM. The website does exist. We haven’t put it anywhere
yet.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. But the website is up and running?
Ms. KIM. Well, it is just a link to the Michigan voter registration
website, which is our URL.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So it is live there right now, the
link?
Ms. KIM. The link exists. We, SBA, have not posted that link
anywhere for anybody to see.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So it is not on your website right
now for us to be able to find it?
Ms. KIM. No.
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Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So if you go right now to michi-
gan.gov/ussba, you can’t find it?
Ms. KIM. That link is the link that we are going to post on our
website, but we haven’t posted that link anywhere yet.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. But the link right now is live?
Ms. KIM. The link, yeah, the link is there.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So have you registered any voters
through there?
Ms. KIM. No.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay. So when do you expect voters
to be able to use the URL?
Ms. KIM. Hopefully soon, Congresswoman.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. You don’t know that?
Ms. KIM. Oh, we are working on implementing it, all parts of the
MOU. So hopefully we will give you an update when the link is up.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay. So according to the MOU,
when was the link supposed to be up?
Ms. KIM. We didn’t put a date in the MOU for when the link
would go live. So there wasn’t a specific date mentioned.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So the MOU states that the Michi-
gan Department of State will provide SBA weekly updates. Are you
getting those updates?
Ms. KIM. No. Since we haven’t started using the website, there
is no updates to be——
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So the MOU went into effect March
18 when you signed it, but even if—according to the agreement,
you were supposed to be getting updates, but you haven’t gotten
any updates?
Ms. KIM. Well, the updates are associated to the website, which,
as I said, we haven’t put anywhere yet.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So it has been March, and it is now
April, May, June, July. So what are you all waiting on?
Ms. KIM. I wouldn’t say we are waiting, Chairwoman. We are
just doing regular course of business. And it is an important issue
for us, but it is not our top priority. So it is not something that I
am looking at every day.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So what plans of actions does the
SBA actually plan to implement the MOU?
Ms. KIM. You know, I think our strategy with the MOU is actu-
ally working to just incorporate the link and activities that we
would already be doing on a regular business day at the SBA.
So the idea would be that we would put the link on our Michigan
district office website. So if you are going to look for resources in
Michigan, it would be there, and you could choose to go to it or not.
And then——
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So all this is just creating a link and
sticking it on the website? That is all you all are doing?
Ms. KIM. That, and we can invite the Michigan Department of
State staff to come table at our events. Many members of the com-
munity——
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay. So it is more than just the
URL. It is also having folks come to events. Okay.
Ms. KIM. Yes. So I am sure you are familiar with we do any
number of small business resource fairs, matchmaking events,
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other activities where we invite resource partners and other local,
State, and federal government partners to come table. So it would
be basically the same thing. The Michigan Department of State
would be welcome to table at those events.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Gotcha. Okay.
So this Committee has been requesting documents related to this
MOU since March 20 when the Administrator was testifying before
this Committee, and since then, we have sent four letters reit-
erating our request for documents, yet the SBA has failed to sub-
stantially produce documents.
The first letter was sent on April 4 requesting documents by
April 18. The SBA didn’t send any documents by the deadline.
The second letter was sent on April 18 requesting interviews
with two SBA officials related to this investigation. The SBA failed
to make them available and forced us to issue subpoenas for their
testimony.
The third letter was sent on May 16, and this time the Senate
signed on as well, requested documents by May 30, and, to date,
we have not received any of those documents.
The fourth letter was just sent last Monday, on July 15, which
reiterated all of our outstanding requests. The deadline for that re-
quest is Monday, 5 days from now. Will we be able to get the docu-
ments by then?
Ms. KIM. My job is to oversee field offices. I don’t deal with the
document requests. I know that I—document requests have been
made of me, and I have submitted them to the team that is work-
ing hard to prepare them for the Committee.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So you have submitted them. They
just have not forwarded them to us, but you have been in full com-
pliance with responding?
Ms. KIM. I reviewed about 200 pages of my own documents that
I sent over to the Committee. I understand there is thousands
more pages that they are reviewing.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. You sent them to the Committee or
you sent them——
Ms. KIM. Oh, excuse me, to our staff that is working to prepare
them for the Committee.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay. So the staff actually has the
documents, they just haven’t sent them to us.
Ms. KIM. Well, they have mine. I don’t know about the others.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay.
So it just leads to the question, like, what is going on at the SBA
that we haven’t received—especially if you have done your job and
you have sent over the documents—why we haven’t gotten them
yet?
Ms. KIM. Oh, well, as I said, I am not in charge of getting the
documents to the Committee, but I would be happy to check with
them——
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Okay.
Ms. KIM.—and have them do an update.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. We are just curious what is going on
because we have had a number—we have had the Administrator,
we have had the Deputy Administrator, we have had you, and no-
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body can seem to answer the question. It is always somebody else
that is supposed to get us the documents.
Ms. KIM. Well, I am happy to answer any questions while I am
here, Chairwoman, yeah.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So the Chairman, along with the
Michigan delegation, sent a letter to the Michigan secretary of
state requesting documents about their involvement in this MOU,
and they responded a day early with more than 200 pages of re-
quested communications. I am just curious what the delay was, but
you don’t know the answer to that.
Ms. KIM. Sorry. No, I don’t.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. All right.
Well, my time is up. So I now recognize the Ranking Member for
5 minutes of questions.
Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you, Chairwoman.
And thank you, Ms. Kim, for being here and for your testimony.
Let’s begin by sifting through the partisan rhetoric and focus on
the facts.
Under the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, State govern-
ments may designate additional agencies and offices, including fed-
eral and nongovernmental offices, as voter registration agencies. Is
that correct?
Ms. KIM. Yes.
Mr. THANEDAR. Okay.
On March 7, 2021, President Biden signed an executive order di-
recting federal agencies to evaluate ways to encourage voter reg-
istration. And pursuant to that order, SBA signed an MOU with
the Department of State to promote voter registration in Michigan.
Is that correct?
Ms. KIM. Yes, I believe so.
Mr. THANEDAR. What activities are allowed under this agree-
ment?
Ms. KIM. I believe it designates what we are doing to implement
the executive order, which is working with States to get designa-
tion as voter registration agencies.
Mr. THANEDAR. Will SBA employees be conducting these voter
registration efforts?
Ms. KIM. They will be referring people to the voter registration
website and working with Michigan Department of State staff.
Mr. THANEDAR. Does the MOU comply with the National Voter
Registration Act and ensure all activities will be nonpartisan?
Ms. KIM. Yes. We are running a nonpartisan voter registration.
Mr. THANEDAR. Okay.
What will be the cost of these activities?
Ms. KIM. There is no additional costs. We are not hiring any ad-
ditional staff or anything like that. Again, we are just trying to in-
corporate it into things that we are already doing, like referring
people to any number of resource websites.
Mr. THANEDAR. So let’s be clear. Despite the rhetoric you are
hearing today, the Biden administration is not violating the laws
and SBA is not misusing taxpayer dollars. Is that correct?
Ms. KIM. That is correct.
Mr. THANEDAR. Okay.
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Now, over the course of the past few months, false claims have
been made that SBA has deviated from its mission and is choosing
to devote taxpayer dollars to registering voters in a battleground
State rather than helping small businesses survive this difficult
economic climate. Is there any truth to that statement?
Ms. KIM. Our core mission to help support small businesses re-
mains the same, and this program is just offering another resource
to small business owners.
Mr. THANEDAR. And it looks like it doesn’t take much of your
time.
Ms. KIM. The actual program, no, it doesn’t.
Mr. THANEDAR. All right. Thank you.
And can you share what SBA has accomplished through its field
staff operations to help small businesses throughout the country?
And tell us more about the number of small businesses you are
reaching.
Ms. KIM. Thank you for the question.
You know, I think the field offices—obviously, it is my job to
work with them—but I think they are one of the most valuable re-
sources that we have in federal government. I think their value
was never more obvious during the pandemic when they really rose
to the occasion to assist millions of small businesses across the
country, and they asked for no credit for that.
But they worked extra hours. They were answering phone calls
at 11 o’clock at night, midnight, working on the weekends, really
helping desperate small businesses, and I know working in coordi-
nation with many of the offices here. And every day they work real-
ly tirelessly, and I feel very proud and fortunate to work with them
at this agency.
Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kim.
And despite efforts by my Democratic colleagues to set the record
straight at the last hearing and make clear the MOU had not been
implemented, Ms. Van Duyne dismissed those efforts and an-
nounced the URL link publicly.
Did you share this link with the Committee staff during a bipar-
tisan briefing and let them know that it was not on SBA’s website?
Ms. KIM. Yes, I briefed the Committee with that information and
offered the URL so they could look at it themselves.
Mr. THANEDAR. Okay. Therefore, no one visiting SBA’s website
could have used it, correct?
Ms. KIM. Internally, there was a set of staff that had it. Obvi-
ously, we are working to implement it. But, again, we haven’t post-
ed it publicly anywhere yet.
Mr. THANEDAR. So the public could not have used it?
Ms. KIM. Correct, not until then.
Mr. THANEDAR. Interestingly, after Chairwoman Van Duyne
published the link, it was visited 190 times with only 8 visits, at
most, from Michigan. Clearly, the Republicans are doing more to
raise awareness about the voter registration opportunities than
SBA, it looks like. Is that true?
Ms. KIM. Yes. I have heard there was a spike in traffic after the
Chairwoman announced the website.
Mr. THANEDAR. So it looks like not much time is spent by the
employees. The link is not on the website. You continue to serve
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the small businesses. We have more small businesses opening up
than ever before under this administration. Is that not true?
Ms. KIM. Yes, there has been record small business growth
under this administration. That is correct.
Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you so much.
My time is up, and I yield back.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
I now recognize Representative Alford from Missouri for 5 min-
utes.
Mr. ALFORD. Well, thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this
important hearing today.
And thank you, Ranking Member Thanedar, as well.
The Small Business Administration was created in 1953 by
President Eisenhower with the mission to aid, counsel, assist, and
protect the interests of small business concerns, preserve free com-
petitive enterprise, and maintain and strengthen the overall econ-
omy of our nation.
However, the Biden-Harris administration is not satisfied with
using this agency for its statutory purpose. Instead, through a se-
ries of executive overreach, they have attempted to turn the SBA
into an adjunct campaign headquarters.
[Chart.]
We have a chart here I want to show you. This chart shows a
timeline of how the Biden-Harris administration has illegally used
the SBA to register voters in the key swing State of Michigan.
In March of 2021, President Biden signed the Executive Order
140-19, the Executive Order on Promoting Access to Voting. This
EO directed the federal government to use all of its resources to
work to register Democrat voters.
In December of 2021, the SBA reached out to the Michigan De-
partment of State to enter into negotiations to work together on
voter registration.
In April of 2022, the SBA hired Jennifer Kim, a career progres-
sive Democrat campaign hand, as Associate Administrator for Out-
reach.
Finally, in March of 2024, the SBA and Michigan secretary of
state announced their memorandum of understanding on voter reg-
istration.
To be quite frank, I am disgusted by the fact that this SBA has
used our taxpayer dollars to become an adjunct arm of the Demo-
crat National Committee.
It is abhorrent behavior that not only runs contrary to the mis-
sion of the SBA but is an illegal misuse of taxpayer money and a
direct slap in the face to the hardworking small business owners
across this great nation, including the Fourth Congressional Dis-
trict of the great State of Missouri.
The SBA needs to return to its core mission of being the voice
of small business. Main street is desperate for a champion, Ms.
Kim, not for the SBA to become the DNC.
Our next chart, please.
[Chart.]
Associate Administrator Kim, this graphic shows where you were
working during every Presidential election since you joined the
workforce.
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In 2008, you were the organizing director at Fair Share, Inc., a
left-wing nonprofit that works to elect Democrats in Ohio.
In 2012, you were the Colorado State director at the Community
Voters Project, a Democrat voter registration nonprofit in Colorado.
In 2016, you were the pod lead deputy training director at the
Hillary for America in Florida.
In 2020, you were deputy national organizing director at Biden
for President.
Ms. Kim, you are now Associate Administrator, Associate Admin-
istrator for the Small Business Administration. It is certainly inter-
esting that this will be the first time in your adult life that you will
ostensibly not be working to elect a Democrat nominee in a swing
State.
Associate Administrator Kim, can you please share with the
Committee how 15 years of campaigning to elect Democrats gives
you the experience necessary to be an Associate Administrator at
the SBA? How did you get this job? Have you ever owned a small
business in your life?
Ms. KIM. Well, I appreciate the opportunity to share my back-
ground, Congressman, and if you had asked, I would have sent you
a better picture.
But I actually spent most of my career working on nonpartisan
campaigns. So for——
Mr. ALFORD. But you have never owned a small business?
Ms. KIM. I have worked in a small business. I have never owned
a small business.
Mr. ALFORD. I don’t think you are qualified to have this job.
Looking at your career timeline and trajectory, it is clear that
your entire life is dedicated to furthering the mission of the Demo-
crat Party.
How could anyone possibly believe that you are faithfully car-
rying out the mission of the SBA?
Ms. KIM. My job is to oversee the field offices. So I have over
18 years of experience running field offices, the majority of which
are actually running nonpartisan campaigns.
Mr. ALFORD. Under oath, Ms. Kim, can you honestly attest that
you are not using your role at the SBA to engage in electioneering
or to register voters for the Democrat Party?
Ms. KIM. I am definitely not using my position for electioneering.
That would be inaccurate, sir.
Mr. ALFORD. Well, I would say this. This is disgusting to the
American people. We have caught you guys red-handed. I don’t
think you are qualified to be dogcatcher. I was happy to submit an
amendment to the Financial Services and General Governance ap-
propriation bill to change your salary to $1 under the Holman rule.
Associate Administrator Kim, I am disappointed in you. I am dis-
appointed in the SBA. Let’s get back to Main Street America.
And thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
I now recognize Representative Scholten from Michigan for 5
minutes.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
Thank you to our Ranking Member.
And thank you so much, Ms. Kim, for being here today.
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When I first heard about this hearing, I got really excited, be-
cause I thought we were maybe going to have an oversight hearing
about why it is taking the SBA so long to comply with the VRA,
not to put you on the hot seat for another reason.
But can you provide the legal authority for why the SBA might
have engaged in this MOU?
Ms. KIM. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
I believe Congress gave us the authority in the 1993 National
Voter Registration Act.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you. Thank you so much.
And I want to clarify a couple points as well. Some of your ac-
tions have been characterized as stonewalling, blockading. We sat
through a previous hearing where we had a number of witnesses;
none of them, unfortunately, were from the SBA. I am glad you are
here today to provide some answers. I think that is really impor-
tant.
Obviously, if the SBA were pivoting its entire mission to election-
eering, that would be of deep, deep concern.
So my first question is, were you invited to the past hearing?
Ms. KIM. No, I was not.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. You were not invited to testify to the last hear-
ing?
Ms. KIM. No.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. And you are here today under a subpoena
or——
Ms. KIM. No. I am a regular——
Ms. SCHOLTEN. You voluntarily came——
Ms. KIM. Yes.
Ms. SCHOLTEN.—when you were asked the first time.
Ms. KIM. Yes.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. You just came on your own. Oh, that is won-
derful. Thank you so much for your willingness to show up today.
There was some prior confusion as well about how active this
MOU is. We understand it has been signed, but have actions such
as publishing and making the website active happened yet?
Ms. KIM. No. That is correct. The MOU has been signed, but we
have not published the website anywhere yet.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay. So I heard Ms. Van Duyne clarifying
some of that as well.
And it has taken 6 months, is that right, since—I think she
counted it out. It has been 6 months——
Ms. KIM. Yes.
Ms. SCHOLTEN.—since it was signed.
So would you say, given that 6-month timeline, it is accurate to
say that the SBA has completely diverted its mission now to—it
doesn’t take 6 months to get a website up and running, does it?
Ms. KIM. No. That is correct.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. And why do you think it has taken so long?
What else have you been working on?
Ms. KIM. Well, we have just been doing our regular course of
business, everything in my department anyway, to help support the
field offices, whether it is helping them with their budgets or out-
reach activity.
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So it is something we are working on. We hope to have it com-
pleted soon. But as I said, it is not something we are working on
every day.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yeah. So giving you another opportunity to say
even just a little bit more about some of the things you have been
working on in those critical 6 months.
Your job is as a field administrator, right? You oversee the field
offices.
Ms. KIM. Uh-huh.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. So going out into the field, talking to people.
Is that only in the State of Michigan?
Ms. KIM. No. We have 68 district offices all over the country.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay. Excellent.
And I want to give you an opportunity just to share a little bit
more about your background and experience, having worked in a
small business before, and also the work that you do in particular
is very unique to the office.
Talk a little bit about how some of your background in those non-
partisan campaigns doing field organizing has prepared you to do
the work of field equipment for the SBA.
Ms. KIM. Yes. Thank you.
Yeah, I started working on local campaigns, which mostly meant
that I was working in local communities, working to build relation-
ships with stakeholders, both government and non, and eventually
kind of managed statewide organizing programs, and then nation-
ally managed field offices across the country.
So that is my job. And I actually find the similarities between
some of the issue campaigns that I worked on and the challenges
of the field there refreshingly similar to the challenges of the field
offices now. There is a lot of similar, ‘‘Oh, we are not getting the
information from headquarters fast enough,’’ or, ‘‘We didn’t get the
coordination right,’’ or, ‘‘We need more budget in our offices,’’
things like that.
So my experience is largely in that and also in outreach, which
is really one of the primary roles of the field offices, is to reach as
many small businesses in their communities as possible.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. One of the things I hear from small business
owners across west Michigan is that they know, in theory, that
there are a lot of great opportunities out there, but they lack that
sort of connection between themselves and the larger SBA head-
quarters.
We know that field offices and under your leadership have con-
tinued to make that critical connection out in the field, and the
data speaks for itself. Small businesses have continued to grow ex-
ponentially in the last 4 years.
And it is clear that your leadership has not been completely di-
verted to electioneering but is doing the critical work of organizing
in the field that we need.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. The lady’s time has expired.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. So votes have been called, and the
Committee stands in recess subject to the call of the Chair.
[Recess.]
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Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. The Committee will now come to
order. We will continue questions under the 5-minute rule.
And the Chair now recognizes Representative Crane from the
great State of Arizona for 5 minutes.
Mr. CRANE. Thank you so much for holding this hearing today.
Appreciate you coming by, Ms. Kim.
Your bio on the SBA website says that you started your career
as a stakeholder engagement specialist serving as a campus orga-
nizer and that you promoted renewable energy standards, afford-
able higher education and healthcare and toxic-free communities.
As a former small business owner, I am not sure how someone
with that background would have any understanding of the needs
of small businesses.
Your bio also mentions that you have dedicated many years to
increasing voter registration in communities of color, as well as
promoting youth civic engagement.
When you were appointed to the SBA by President Biden in
2022, what experience did you have assisting small businesses?
Ms. KIM. Thanks for the question, Congressman.
So my background and my job is running field offices. In my ex-
perience running field offices and field campaigns, I have worked
with many small business owners on many of the issues that you
mentioned, and I have also worked with small business—sorry,
worked in small businesses as well.
Also, as part of my background, as was mentioned, I have a mas-
ter’s in public administration, which is a program that is specifi-
cally designed to support people that are managing policy and pro-
grams in federal, state, and local government, which is something
that I do as part of my job.
Mr. CRANE. Okay. How is your background in voter registration
efforts helpful to small business owners?
Ms. KIM. When I did voter registration work, I was running field
offices that were doing voter registration. So my job is to manage
the field offices now. So there are a lot of similarities, actually, in
making sure that the offices have the support that they need to do
the outreach.
Essentially, the field offices, their job is to serve small busi-
nesses, and my job is to make sure the field offices have what they
need to do that.
Mr. CRANE. Okay. So just to summarize, you have no experience
applicable to small business, but you do have a background in voter
outreach, and you were an organizer for President Biden’s 2020
campaign. Is that correct?
Ms. KIM. I did work on President Biden’s campaign. As I said,
I have worked with small businesses, and my background in the
field I think is why I was hired to manage the field offices.
Mr. CRANE. Why did you decide on Michigan for this voter reg-
istration MOU?
Ms. KIM. I started at the agency in 2022, and the work and the
partnership with the State of Michigan already had begun before
I got here.
Mr. CRANE. Okay. But you guys are clearly aware that Michi-
gan is a swing State, right, in this upcoming election?
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Ms. KIM. Swing State isn’t something we take into consideration
in our work. But, yes, I am aware that Michigan is a swing State.
Mr. CRANE. I highly doubt that.
All right. You and others at the SBA have stated that this MOU
will be implemented in a nonpartisan manner. Is it likely that you
will keep your job if a Republican administration is elected?
Ms. KIM. Since I am a political appointee of this administration,
probably not.
Mr. CRANE. Okay.
Have you had any events at all, any cities, counties that have a
majority of Republican voters? And if so, can you provide those for
the Committee?
Ms. KIM. Have we had any events in any cities that have a Re-
publican majority?
Mr. CRANE. Republican majority, that have a majority of Repub-
lican voters.
Ms. KIM. I mean, we hold events all over the country in all of
our 68 districts, so I would assume yes.
Mr. CRANE. Can you provide us with or can you even give us
one county or city that has a larger population of Republican vot-
ers?
Ms. KIM. Again, I don’t keep track of every single individual
event that we do.
Mr. CRANE. I am not asking you to keep track of every sin-
gle——
Ms. KIM. Yeah.
Mr. CRANE. I am asking you, can you give us one? Because
clearly you understand what our concern is.
Our concern is that what you guys are doing is that you guys are
going out under the umbrella of the SBA, and then you are bring-
ing in State officials to register voters in Democrat-run cities and
counties. That is, obviously, what is going on here.
So can you even give us one example of a city or a county in
which you guys are even trying to make it look like that this is bi-
partisan and you guys don’t really care about the demographic?
Ms. KIM. Again, we run programs everywhere. I know, for exam-
ple, we are running a T.H.R.I.VE. program, which is one of our
small business programs, in Lebanon County, which is in Congress-
man Meuser’s district.
Mr. CRANE. Okay. What is the registration there? Do you know?
Ms. KIM. No, I don’t track registration rates as part of my job.
Mr. CRANE. Okay.
All right. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much.
The Chair now recognizes Representative Meuser from Pennsyl-
vania for 5 minutes.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
So thank you for being with us, Ms. Kim.
So you have extensive background in voter registration. It is
even on the website that that is mainly what you have done. You
have engaged in grass roots on campuses. You have worked for
Clinton. You have worked for Senator Booker, the Biden campaign,
as an organizer.
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You came on board with minimal small business background, if
any. You created an MOU to register voters in the State of Michi-
gan. A fellow by the name of Tyler Robinson admitted it on video,
on camera, on audio.
Arthur Plews, when asked about this, decided to lawyer up, and
we needed to basically get a subpoena for him to answer some
questions.
The Administrator did not provide the correspondence I asked
for, kind of went into hiding, and has spent twice as much time in
Michigan as any other State.
So this is why we think and believe that you are involved in
voter registration, because you have created the plan to do it. And
then you say: Well, I created the plan but I never executed the
plan. And you said that you haven’t used resources.
How many resources and time did you—and I am not sure what
is so funny, but that is okay.
How much time did you spend developing the plan that appar-
ently was never facilitated?
Ms. KIM. Thanks for your question.
Sorry. I wasn’t laughing. There is a photographer——
Mr. MEUSER. I don’t care.
Ms. KIM.—that just shot up in front of me, so I was a little star-
tled.
To answer your question about the time developing the plan, so,
again, the work on the implementation of the executive order had
started before I got to the agency. It started in 2021. I started in
March of 2022, so it just continued.
I, as mentioned previously, it is not something I work on every
day. I did because of my voter——
Mr. MEUSER. All right. So you spent a lot of time working on
the plan, not necessarily executing it, on the taxpayers’ dollars. So
you are working on voter registration initiatives that you claim you
have not executed, but you have spent taxpayer dollars doing so.
Okay. How much time do you spend in Michigan?
Ms. KIM. Me personally?
Mr. MEUSER. Yeah.
Ms. KIM. I visited the district office once in Michigan since I
started on this job.
Mr. MEUSER. Just once?
Ms. KIM. Yes.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Can we get a calendar? Do you provide a
calendar, we can take a look at it and see where you spend your
time?
Because we are very fearful that, as we have oversight, that tax-
payer dollars are being misused and are being used, we think po-
tentially illegally, to register voters, whether it is Democrat or Re-
publican. It is entirely wrong, and we are going to do our best to
get to the bottom of it.
So along with yourself, how many others in the SBA have you
talked with as you are developing the plan for voter registration?
How many others have you been training as you visit the various
SBA sites?
Ms. KIM. Well, we haven’t trained anybody on this initiative yet,
so——
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Mr. MEUSER. Completely solo? Just completely on your own?
Ms. KIM. We——
Mr. MEUSER. Do you have an assistant?
Ms. KIM. We haven’t trained anybody yet because we haven’t
implemented the MOU, although the MOU is completed. So——
Mr. MEUSER. Not just the MOU.
Look, you are 1 of 12 Associate Administrators out of 2,822 peo-
ple. You have a very high-level position at the SBA. You must have
an assistant. You must have someone that helps you put this and
organize all of this.
Ms. KIM. The work of crafting the MOU——
Mr. MEUSER. How many people report to you?
Ms. KIM. Around 650.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Direct reports, 650?
Ms. KIM. Oh, not all directly reporting to me, no.
Mr. MEUSER. Well, that is what I asked.
Ms. KIM. Oh. Well, there is about 12, I guess.
Mr. MEUSER. So you just showed us how little you know about
business. You said 650 people report to you. That is just sopho-
moric at best. And it is just a shame that the dollars are being
used in this manner, and it is unacceptable. It is absolutely unac-
ceptable.
And you know it. Okay? Maybe that is why the smile is there,
because you know it.
What was the purpose of the MOU?
Ms. KIM. The MOU is to implement the executive order and to
form a partnership with the State of Michigan so that we could
provide a website to small business owners who choose to register
to vote and invite Michigan Department of State staff to our table
events.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Is that anywhere within the scope of the
SBA to set up a link for businesses—of your choice, by the way.
And, who knows, maybe a business that is trying to get a loan from
the SBA and says, ‘‘Hmm, they are part of the Biden administra-
tion. They are Democrats. Maybe it would be a good idea for me
to register and vote as a Democrat so I can get that loan.’’
Do you understand how insidious this looks, and perhaps is, and
we believe is?
I yield back, Chairwoman.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much.
The Chair now recognizes Representative McClain from Michi-
gan from 5 minutes.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Thank you for being here, Ms. Kim. I appreciate
it.
I am from the great State of Michigan and many of our—my con-
stituents are very concerned with transparency and integrity with
the State of Michigan.
Real quickly, what is the mission of the SBA? What is your mis-
sion statement?
Ms. KIM. We are here to support small businesses, ma’am.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Here to support small businesses. Wonderful.
Have you, yourself, ever ran a small business, owned a small
business?
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Ms. KIM. I have worked in small businesses. I have not owned
a small business.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Okay. Thank you.
And what qualifications do you have, I was a little vague on that,
as a small business owner?
Ms. KIM. Well, my job is to oversee our 10 regional and 68 dis-
trict offices, and I have overseen field offices for the majority of my
career.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. How does that correlate with running and help-
ing people get a small business loan?
Ms. KIM. Well, my job is to support the field offices. My job is
not to run a small business.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Obviously. Obviously.
Ms. KIM. Yeah.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Do you think it would be helpful if you ran a
small business to understand what it is like? I mean, I am not a
doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I don’t fake it.
Ms. KIM. Well, I did work in a small business for 4 years, Con-
gresswoman.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Okay.
Ms. KIM. And I think it was a small business run by a family,
a family-owned business, and I definitely got a lot of experi-
ence——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. So that qualifies you to be in charge?
Ms. KIM. I think it is my 18 years of running field offices that
qualifies me to run the field offices.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. I would agree with you. Running the field of-
fices is fantastic, very similar to running the field office for voter
registrations.
So I want to pick up on one other thing. Is there anywhere in
the SBA’s mission that talks about voter registration being part of
that mission?
Ms. KIM. Not specifically, no.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Not specifically. Thank you.
Well, my colleague, Eli Crane asked you a question about where
the programs were run past, right? And I think, if I can quote, ‘‘We
ran programs everywhere.’’ Was that your answer?
Ms. KIM. I can’t remember exactly what I said, but I think I in-
dicated we run programs across all of our 68 districts. Yeah.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Okay. Can we take a look at Michigan, since
this is what we are talking about?
Okay. Just—these are facts. So since you don’t know where they
are at, I happen to.
[Map.]
These are the programs that have been run by the SBA in Michi-
gan, right? I don’t know if you can see that. But all of these pro-
grams here have been run in Michigan, southeastern, lower. You
see these? Make sense?
Ms. KIM. Well, I can’t exactly see it, but I was, I believe, shown
this map when I briefed the Committee staff in May.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Okay. Any idea what demographic, political
party-wise, these represent?
Ms. KIM. I am not tracking that. And I am not clear if I——
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Mrs. MCCLAIN. I am, so let me help you. They are Democrat,
right?
Interestingly enough, how many—just out of curiosity—in the
non-Democratic regions in the State of Michigan that you have ac-
tually done, how many Republican areas of your department, how
many events have you run to open small businesses in non-Demo-
cratic areas?
Ms. KIM. Well, there are a couple of things I would offer to an-
swer that question. One is that——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. I am looking for a number in Michigan, and if
you don’t know it, I will accept an ‘‘I don’t know.’’
Ms. KIM. Well, I clarified with the Committee staff that those
events on that map are not all SBA-run events, I think. I am not
sure because I didn’t see the list from where the Committee got
them from.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Well, here is the beauty of it. I realize you are
not sure. The beauty of it is I am actually sure. So let me help you,
right?
As a small business owner, that when I come to testify, I would
think you would know your data, but, again, that is crazy.
Notice any in this region up here?
Ms. KIM. I cannot see the map that clearly, but I don’t see it,
but——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Maybe I can help.
Ms. KIM. Yeah.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. See this green thing here? Can you see green?
Ms. KIM. I see green, yes.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Bingo. That is one. One Republican area. One.
Isn’t that ironic to you, or is that just coincidental?
Ms. KIM. I don’t manage where the district offices do their
events specifically. District directors have the leeway——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. What do you manage? Voter registration in
Democratic areas?
Ms. KIM. We are, as part of implementing the executive order,
implementing a nonpartisan resource for small businesses.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. You know what I call? You know it is not non-
partisan because if it—does this look nonpartisan to you? Just
share with me, does that look nonpartisan? Democrat. Republican.
Now, I understand data because I have run a small business.
Does that look nonpartisan to you?
Ms. KIM. Again, I think I tried to clarify with the Com-
mittee——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. I am asking a question.
Ms. KIM.—that does not actually represent all of the SBA’s
work.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Does this look nonpartisan to you? You are a
smart woman. I mean, my goodness gracious.
Dan, what is she in charge of, 600 people?
I think you can answer a question. Does this look nonpartisan
to you?
Ms. KIM. Again, I don’t think that map represents all of SBA’s
activities in the State of Michigan.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Okay, then I will accept your map. Do you have
one?
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Ms. KIM. No, I didn’t come with a map.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Oh, no, I don’t.
I yield back. Thank you.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. The Chair now recognizes Chairman
Williams from Texas for 5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Madam Chair.
And let me just say this. We keep hearing the SBA is going to
be implementing this agreement in a nonpartisan way. We just
heard that. But that is simply not true.
The Administrator chooses where to go and which event to pro-
mote to the American people. And, therefore, if you want to avoid
registering Republicans, you don’t go where they are located, as we
just saw on the map. You don’t do any press on it. You don’t invite
the Michigan Secretary of State’s Office to set up a table to register
voters.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions in here, and we
aren’t going to stop looking at this until we start to receive some
real answers, which Representative McClain just tried to get from
you.
But with that said, let me yield back the rest of my time to
Chairwoman Van Duyne.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair-
man.
Let me be clear. The reason why we are continuing to push this
investigation is because the SBA has stonewalled us at every turn.
You briefed the Committee on May 3 but shut down more ques-
tions than you provided answers. The chief of staff said he could
not recall pertinent information almost 200 times. We aren’t get-
ting answers, we aren’t getting documents, and that is a fact.
Further, the House passed my bill, which would create a link on
the SBA’s website for people to report COVID fraud at the SBA.
We literally needed an act of Congress to get that link created. And
guess what? SBA still hasn’t done it. Instead, you are prioritizing
creating a link to register voters.
I think the SBA’s priorities are pretty crystal clear. They want
to register voters and forget about fraud.
Under the NVRA, which we have heard a number of times today,
the States are allowed to request help from agencies, not the other
way around.
The SBA has told us, and you, Ms. Kim, told us that the SBA
reached out first. Do you stand by that statement?
Ms. KIM. I don’t think that I said that the SBA reached out first.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Well, in fact, the legal ground upon
which you and the Democrats are attempting to stand is shaky at
best. I mean, you said the SBA heard that Michigan was interested
in engaging with the SBA to register votes, but who told the SBA
that Michigan was interested, and how did you know?
This isn’t normal. The NVRA has never been used like this in 30
years. In the SBA’s own words, this is a first-of-its-kind agreement,
as the SBA stated in their press release.
This hearing has shown the SBA is as ineffective in imple-
menting this project as they are with anything else. If not, you are
at least consistent, if not anything else.
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So, Ms. Kim, you couldn’t give me or Ms. Scholten a viable rea-
son for the lack of implementation of this MOU, and it is obvious
the SBA doesn’t seem to have any kind of plan to implement it at
all.
But on top of that, you and the Democrats are saying that this
voter registration is so vitally important to small businesses’ sur-
vival in Michigan that you have got to prioritize it. And yet, now
you are saying that small businesses don’t even have access to the
URL that you spent time putting together. And how does that
make any sense?
So it seems like we started looking into this, and as we started
our investigation and asking questions and having your folks come
to our Committee and answer those questions and try getting docu-
ments, basically, you basically stopped implementing the program,
is least that it would seem, because we haven’t been able to get any
answers today on the timeframe, on when the URL is going up.
You have had this agreement signed since March. It is now near-
ly the end of July and nothing has happened. So, again, you are
just as effective in this program as some others.
But I appreciate your time here today.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Will the gentlelady yield to me?
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. Oh, I am going to yield the rest of
my time to Representative McClain.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Question for you, Ms. Kim. Did you reach out
to the State of Michigan, or did the State of Michigan reach out
to you?
Ms. KIM. I joined the SBA in 2022, so the conversations with
Michigan had started in 2021. So I don’t have firsthand knowledge
of those.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Do you have secondhand knowledge?
Ms. KIM. Again, my understanding is that Michigan was inter-
ested in partnering and so the whole——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Can you get that answer?
Ms. KIM. I am not honestly sure who would have it, but I can
definitely look into it. Again, it happened before I got here.
And I should add——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. So I just want to make sure.
Ms. KIM. Yeah.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. So you don’t know if the State of Michigan
reached out to you to implement this program or you reached out
to the State of Michigan?
And I say that because it is a very critical question that you
don’t have the answer to. If you don’t have the answer, who would?
Perhaps your boss?
Ms. KIM. Again, all the work with the State of Michigan started
before I joined the agency.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. But you use that as a common excuse. It started
before you joined the agency. Okay. And you joined the agency
when again?
Ms. KIM. In March of 2022.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. In March of 2022. So any work that was done
before March of 2022, you have no clue on?
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Ms. KIM. I have some general understanding. And, again, when
I started, that kind of work was already happening and I checked
in on——
Mrs. MCCLAIN. So you are just, like, ‘‘Okay, wasn’t me’’?
Do you think you could get me that answer?
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. The lady’s time has expired.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Let her answer, please.
Do you think you can get that answer?
Ms. KIM. Any specific request I am sure we can follow up.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. So I will take that as a no.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. The lady’s time has expired.
Mrs. MCCLAIN. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman VAN DUYNE. I would like to thank our witness for
her testimony and for appearing before us today.
Without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to submit ad-
ditional materials and written questions for the witness to the
Chair, which will be forwarded to the witness. I ask the witness
to please respond promptly.
If there is no further business, without objection, the Committee
is adjourned.
Ms. KIM. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 11:46 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
[Ms. Kim did not submit her responses to questions in a timely
manner.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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File and source
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- 447,742 bytes
- SHA-256
- c6fa3a5b9488a06a48b53097cf7736d7f05dae518719111f35cc34d467c92ba6
- Our copy
- CHRG-118hhrg56139.pdf
- Original
- www.govinfo.gov