Congressional Record, Senate, September 7, 2022, Page S4458

Summary

A page of the Congressional Record, Senate, dated September 7, 2022, at page S4458. It opens with the roll call on Rollcall Vote No. 328, Executive, in which the yeas are 48 and the nays are 45, and the nomination was confirmed. The Senate then lays before itself a cloture motion on the nomination of Andre B. Mathis, of Tennessee, to be United States Circuit Judge for the Sixth Circuit, Executive Calendar No. 736, signed by Senators including Mr. Schumer and Ms. Hirono. A Senator speaks under a heading on student loan debt relief, recalling that National Defense Education Act loans carried 3 percent interest with repayment starting 1 year out of college and 10 years to pay it off. The remarks are the Senator's own.

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“Congressional Record, Senate, September 7, 2022, Page S4458.” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/crec-crec-2022-09-07-crec-2022-09-07-pt1-pgs4458-3-6bc1f7d207/, SHA-256 89e5af89129546ea7fffd286350c6d5770cc4d1c30a019c44c6df76ed0fe0b09.

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S4458 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE September 7, 2022
Cramer Johnson Rubio [Rollcall Vote No. 328 Ex.] wonderful ideas came up with a great
Crapo Lankford Sasse
Cruz Lee Scott (FL)
YEAS—48 one. It was called the National Defense
Daines Lummis Scott (SC) Baldwin Heinrich Peters Education Act. The National Defense
Ernst Marshall Shelby Bennet Hickenlooper Reed Education Act said that those who ap-
Fischer McConnell Blumenthal Hirono Sanders
Thune
Booker Kaine Schatz
plied for Federal college loans could
Grassley Moran Tillis
Hagerty Paul Brown Kelly Schumer borrow money and pay it back at 3 per-
Toomey
Hawley Portman
Tuberville
Cantwell Kennedy Shaheen cent interest but not have to pay until
Hoeven Risch Cardin King Sinema 1 year out of college, and then they had
Wicker Carper Klobuchar Smith
Hyde-Smith Romney
Inhofe Rounds
Young Casey Leahy Stabenow 10 years to pay it off.
Coons Luján Tester I didn’t know at the time, but that
NOT VOTING—6 Cortez Masto Manchin Van Hollen turned out to be my ticket to college.
Duckworth Markey Warner
Burr Murkowski Rosen
Durbin Merkley Warnock
There was no way that my family
Menendez Ossoff Sullivan
Feinstein Murphy Warren could afford to send me, nor could I af-
The nomination was confirmed. Gillibrand Murray Whitehouse ford to go to school at good schools
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Under Hassan Padilla Wyden from any money that I had saved or
the previous order, the motion to re- NAYS—45 could earn during the summer. It was
consider is considered made and laid Barrasso Graham Portman the government loans that got me
upon the table and the President will Blackburn Grassley Risch through it. And I wasn’t alone. By the
be immediately notified of the Senate’s Blunt Hagerty Romney tens of thousands, students all over the
Boozman Hawley Rounds
action. Braun Hoeven Rubio United States took out these National
Capito Hyde-Smith Sasse Defense Education Act loans.
f Cassidy Inhofe Scott (FL) Well, what happened as a result of
Collins Johnson Scott (SC)
Cornyn Lankford Shelby
that idea that we could educate our-
CLOTURE MOTION Cotton Lee Thune selves out of this problem? It worked.
Cramer Lummis Tillis It worked dramatically. In the early
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Pursuant Cruz Marshall Toomey 1960s, there was this explosive expan-
to rule XXII, the Chair lays before the Daines McConnell Tuberville
Ernst Moran Wicker sion of our economy, of technology and
Senate the pending cloture motion, Fischer Paul Young research and scientific endeavors that
which the clerk will state. we took advantage of for decades and
NOT VOTING—7
The senior assistant legislative clerk still do to this day.
read as follows: Burr Murkowski Sullivan
Crapo Ossoff I think about the race to the Moon
CLOTURE MOTION Menendez Rosen and all the other things that we set our
We, the undersigned Senators, in accord- The PRESIDING OFFICER. On this sights on, and they were all based on
ance with the provisions of rule XXII of the vote, the yeas are 48, the nays are 45. enough well-educated people at every
Standing Rules of the Senate, do hereby The motion is agreed to. level who could compete with countries
move to bring to a close debate on the nomi- around the world and do it success-
nation of Executive Calendar No. 736, Andre f
fully. So the concept is sound, and I
B. Mathis, of Tennessee, to be United States EXECUTIVE CALENDAR
Circuit Judge for the Sixth Circuit.
think it was executed—not flawlessly,
Charles E. Schumer, Mazie K. Hirono, The PRESIDING OFFICER. The but very well—for myself and for many
Martin Heinrich, Tim Kaine, Jack clerk will report the nomination. others, and I ended up borrowing that
Reed, Jacky Rosen, Ben Ray Luján, The legislative clerk read the nomi- money to get through college and law
Christopher A. Coons, Alex Padilla, nation of Andre B. Mathis, of Ten- school.
Sheldon Whitehouse, Sherrod Brown, nessee, to be United States Circuit The amount of debt if I even said it
Debbie Stabenow, Christopher Murphy, Judge for the Sixth Circuit. on the floor maybe would draw a laugh
Patrick J. Leahy, John W. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The by the pages and everyone else because
Hickenlooper, Tammy Baldwin, Angus Democratic whip. it was so small, but it was enough debt
S. King, Jr.
STUDENT LOAN DEBT RELIEF PLAN that it just scared me to death. It was
The PRESIDING OFFICER. By unan- Mr. DURBIN. Madam President, Oc- the equivalent of 50 percent of my
imous consent, the mandatory quorum tober 4, 1957. Many in the Chamber gross pay coming out of law school in
call has been waived. were not alive at that date. I was. I was 1 year. But most students today would
The question is, Is it the sense of the a teenager, maybe in high school, just accept that in a second: 50 percent of
Senate that debate on the nomination starting, or at the end of grade school. their gross wages in their first year as
of Andre B. Mathis, of Tennessee, to be But it was a big day in the history of their student loan debt.
United States Circuit Judge for the the world, October 4, 1957, because at The average is higher. The average is
Sixth Circuit, shall be brought to a 7:28 p.m. at night, the Russians over $25,000, and for some students, it is
close? launched Sputnik. almost astronomical what they end up
The yeas and nays are mandatory Sputnik was a basketball-size sat- borrowing. I can’t even imagine the
under the rule. ellite, and we were concerned because cost of colleges and law schools today
The clerk will call the roll. we believed the Russians—then the So- and medical schools and dental schools
The senior assistant legislative clerk viet Union—had the capacity to drop and the debt that is involved—which
called the roll. an atomic or nuclear bomb on the leads me to the second point in history
Mr. DURBIN. I announce that the United States, and if they could do it and I think it was sometime in the
Senator from New Jersey (Mr. MENEN- from space, for goodness’ sake, how 1960s.
DEZ), the Senator from Georgia (Mr. would we defend ourselves? Somebody wrote a story about stu-
OSSOFF), and the Senator from Nevada So a mild panic hit America, particu- dent loan borrowers who went to med-
(Ms. ROSEN) are necessarily absent. larly in this town of Washington, and ical school, finished medical school,
Mr. THUNE. The following Senators out of that panic came a pretty good then got their licenses to practice med-
are necessarily absent: the Senator idea, as far as I was concerned. They icine with a pretty good opportunity to
from North Carolina (Mr. BURR), the decided that for the first time in the make some real money in life, but they
Senator from Idaho (Mr. CRAPO), the history of the United States, we would had one more stop. They stopped at the
Senator from Alaska (Ms. MURKOWSKI), start loaning money to college-age stu- bankruptcy court and they discharged

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and the Senator from Alaska (Mr. SUL- dents so they could go to college. The their student loans in bankruptcy
LIVAN). notion was, if we had to fight the Rus- court and then went on to practice
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Ms. sians or the Soviets in technology, we medicine.
BALDWIN). Are there any other Sen- better have people educated and pre- Well, that sounded like a pretty bad
ators in the Chamber desiring to vote? pared to do it. deal for the government who trusted
The yeas and nays resulted—yeas 48, So someone who in those days sat them to get a degree and earn enough
nays 45, as follows: down and wrote up the names of these money to pay back the loan and in the

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September 7, 2022 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S4459
fairness of this, that they wouldn’t ac- What is going on here? Why are those They don’t need a college degree to
cept their responsibility. So someone students so disproportionately default- achieve that. Some of them may con-
dreamed up the idea that, well, let’s ing on their student loan debt? They sider that.
make sure you cannot discharge your were misled into going into these Everyone who qualifies for relief will
student loan in bankruptcy court. schools that were worthless—worth- get a lower monthly payment at least,
There are a handful of debts that you less. and that means real help now. Of
can incur that cannot be discharged in You see ads on TV that show this course, it isn’t a real complete solution
bankruptcy court—but just a handful. lovely young lady. She was in her bed- to the challenge. Too many colleges
Taxes that you owe the government, room in her pajamas with a laptop are charging too much money.
for example, I believe, are not dis- computer saying, ‘‘I am going to col- When I ask of a nice college: What
chargeable; money that you owe in di- lege.’’ does that nice college ask for tuition?
vorce settlements and child support are And you think to yourself: Get real. I visited one just over the August
not dischargeable; and a handful of This isn’t real college. This is a way to break. And someone said: It is $72,000 a
other things. But otherwise, anything get you to pay too much in tuition for year. I said, For tuition? How in the
you can borrow money for, you can go something that is basically worthless. world can it be?
to bankruptcy court and say, ‘‘I want And students do. Eight percent of col- Well, they give a lot of student
to walk away from all my debts,’’ and lege students do it. grants and scholarships and fellowships
achieve that goal. So the point I am making is, many of and this, that, and the other thing. But
For example, if you had a mortgage these students are deceived and duped the cost of higher education is getting
on your home and you want to be dis- into going to these colleges because of beyond the reach of average people,
charged from paying off that mortgage, the promises they make about what and that is a big problem. We need to
you can do it in bankruptcy court. You these degrees are worth and how easy have affordable education and edu-
may or may not have any home left it is to acquire an associate’s or bach- cation that helps you meet your goals.
after it is discharged in bankruptcy, elor’s degree. So they are deeply in I might also say that some of the
but it is a fact. If you borrow money to debt, and they can’t find a job and take people who have been involved in bor-
buy a boat, you can discharge that loan care of them. I will tell you the story rowing money have some sad stories to
in bankruptcy. If you buy a car, you of one of them in just a moment. tell.
can discharge it in bankruptcy. A sec- But put those together, and that is Vickie Vences is one of thousands of
ond home? Discharge it in bankruptcy. why we need to do something about Illinois students who were deceived by
But when it came to student loans, we student loans in America. Yes, we need one of these for-profit colleges called
said because some of these people took student loans in America. They are Westwood. Vickie grew up on the
advantage and didn’t pay back their good for America and its economy. South Side of Chicago. She is the first
loans, we are not going to allow you to Should they be dischargeable in bank- person in her family to attend college.
discharge it in bankruptcy. ruptcy? I think, under some cir- She decided that she wanted to go
That ultimately meant that those cumstances, they should be. into law enforcement. She enrolled in a
who borrowed money to go to school or If 10 years have passed and you still criminal justice program in Westwood
college when they were 19 or 20 years had a balance on your student loans College in 2004 in Chicago. She believed
old, they would have a debt that they and you were literally head over heels the recruiters. They said: A degree
will have to pay back or carry it to the in debt, you ought to be able to dis- from Westwood is going to open the
grave—literally, carry it to the grave. charge that in bankruptcy. You tried door for you, young lady, right into the
There was no way to get rid of it. your best. Ten years is enough. That is field of law enforcement.
So what happened? We know. A lot of
one approach. But the other approach, She found the opposite was true.
people got too deeply in debt. It turned
President Biden has just suggested. They laughed at her when she showed
out that even the promise of a college
That is why he issued a one-time stu- her resume from Westwood College.
diploma was not enough to meet their
dent loan debt relief program to ease They said: That is not a real college.
obligations, so they are deeply in debt.
(Mr. HICKENLOOPER assumed the the college debt burden on middle- and That is not a real degree, and that
Chair.) lower-income families. doesn’t help you a bit—because
Now, Mr. President, let me mention a Under the President’s plan, the gov- Westwood hid the truth about the fact
third category of things that started ernment will erase $10,000 in Federal that they were not accredited in Illi-
before the Presiding Officer arrived. student loan debt for some borrowers nois. A lot of young people were duped
There was Sputnik which changed the who make less than $125,000 a year. If into believing it was a ticket to a good
world and the National Defense Edu- you are married and file taxes jointly law enforcement job.
cation Act; we went and changed the or head of household, you qualify if By the time Vickie found out how
bankruptcy law and said that you can’t your income is $250,000 or less. If you badly she was into it, she had $50,000 in
discharge a student loan in bank- received a Pell Grant while you were student loan debt, and she didn’t have
ruptcy. going to college—and those are for even a Westwood degree to point to.
Now, let me introduce a third phe- lower-income families—you could qual- That is unfortunate. She could have
nomenon. And I have done so before, ify for an extra $10,000 of student loan done a lot more with her life, were it
but I want to give you two numbers, cancellation. not for the student debt and the decep-
and I want you to get out your pens Under the President’s plan, 43 million tion of these for-profit schools. She is
and pencils, and I want you to write Americans will receive some amount of working mostly for nonprofit organiza-
them down because they are going to debt cancellation. A majority of tions. She finds it hard to make any of
be on the final. OK? There are two them—about 27 million borrowers—will her loan payments. The good news is
numbers: 8 and 33—8 and 33. So when see up to $20,000 knocked off their stu- that the Department of Education can-
you see the question on the final of dent loan balance. For 20 million bor- celed the student loan debts of all
what percentage of college students go rowers, that is enough to totally wipe former Westwood College students fol-
to for-profit colleges and universities, out their entire student loan balance. lowing investigations into Westwood’s
hold up your hand. It is 8 percent. They literally can start again. They widespread misconduct. Vickie is going
Eight percent of college students go to can consider going back to school— to get a break.
for-profit colleges and universities. maybe even a good school that gives That is why, I have to tell you, I was
them the kind of training, education, a little upset with one of our col-

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Those are the ones that are heavily ad-
vertised. You see them everywhere. or degree that really can lead to a bet- leagues—and I won’t name names. We
Thirty-three. What percentage of all ter life. Or they can try to take an- are not supposed to do that on the Sen-
student loan defaults are students who other course of action. ate floor. But he started mocking the
went to for-profit colleges and univer- There are other approaches. I have students who are heavily in debt. I
sities? Thirty-three percent. Eight per- got labor unions all over my State beg- think he referred to them as ‘‘slat-
cent of the students have 33 percent of ging for apprentices—good-paying jobs ternly baristas.’’ I think that means
the student loan defaults. for skilled craftsmen and the like. they are lazy and work at Starbucks—

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S4460 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE September 7, 2022
and here, they have too much debt, and walkaway. I didn’t hear a lot of speech- from directing the IRS to go after
it is their own damn fault. es about ‘‘slatternly baristas’’ at that groups he doesn’t like? What about
I couldn’t disagree more. Students, point in time. And we have also seen it pregnancy resource centers or Second
when you are 19 or 20 years old, don’t happen before. In fact, we have had a Amendment groups?
know what is a reasonable debt and number of Members of Congress who Here is what the Democrats are
what isn’t. They just don’t have life ex- applied for some of those PPP loans. doing: They are turning the IRS into a
perience. Many of them are first-gen- The same people who are criticizing super Agency to audit more Americans
eration college students in their fam- forgiving student loan debts literally so they can fund even more of their
ily. Mom and dad are not much help. personally borrowed money that they reckless tax-and-spend agenda. Let’s
They want to see their kids get a col- didn’t pay back to the Federal Govern- not forget that last year, the Demo-
lege degree. That is supposed to be the ment, and they don’t think there is crats wanted the IRS to spy on nearly
ticket to success. So young people sign anything wrong with that. I can go every American’s bank account and
up for loans, and they sign up in into a long list of people who have ben- track one’s everyday transactions.
schools that can’t produce a diploma efited by loans that were forgiven or American families can see straight
that leads to a job, and they get stuck grants given by the Federal Govern- through Biden’s plans, and they are fu-
with it. ment. rious. We all should be furious.
Vickie, I mentioned earlier, tried her Better than going through that list, Without a single Republican vote,
best to pay off these loans and doesn’t let me say the bottom line is this: If we the Democrats authorized 87,000 more
have much luck. She says that being can help these young student bor- IRS agents—doubling the size of the
freed of some of this debt is going to be rowers with an opportunity to reduce Agency—all to pull as many dollars as
at least lifting part of the burden. Let’s the debt they owe and get their lives they can away from hard-working fam-
be honest about it. I don’t know that back online, that is a great outcome ilies and small businesses so they can
she is lazy or if ‘‘barista’’ is now a neg- for them and a great one for this Na- fund liberal projects and appease their
ative term. I don’t think it is. Those tion. radical base with more government
folks are working, and I respect the The same type of idealism that drove bailouts.
fact that they are. us to the National Defense Education Case in point: Biden’s illegal order to
She said, ‘‘I’m not asking for any- Act after Sputnik applies as well transfer student loan debt from bor-
thing for free. I just think things today. We should have a well-trained, rowers to taxpayers. Someone has to
should be fair. Education should be af- well-educated American workforce pay for the hundreds of billions of dol-
fordable. And we ought to be able to ready to compete with the world. I lars of debt that these borrowers volun-
earn enough to pay back what we owe.’’ think we can do it. Joe Biden’s step is tarily took on. Now, instead of the bor-
These Republican colleagues of mine a reasonable, humane step in the right rowers paying for their own edu-
are setting out to stop this plan by Joe direction. It should have bipartisan cations, that burden is now borne by
Biden. I guess it will be a great source support. every American taxpayer. You didn’t
of pride if they do it. They can say: We I yield the floor. go to college? The Democrats don’t
stopped this relief for all of these The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen- care. You will pay the debt of lawyers
young people who are in debt. We sunk ator from Florida. and doctors. Have you already paid off
them deeper into despair. And we did it UNANIMOUS CONSENT REQUEST—S. 4798 your loans? Biden doesn’t want to hear
because it is an election year. Mr. SCOTT of Florida. Mr. President, it. Tough luck. Your taxes are the
I think it is unfortunate. The Presi- last month, in a completely partisan money pot for other people’s student
dent’s student loan forgiveness plan is process, Senate Democrats pushed debts, and if Democrats are going to
not a giveaway to rich doctors and law- through their progressive and deceiv- keep declaring everything to be free,
yers who racked up big debt at Ivy ingly named Inflation Reduction Act. Biden is going to need a lot more tax-
League schools. Ninety-eight percent That bill was a disaster, as it was full payer money.
of the student loan borrowers did not of reckless tax increases and spending. That, my fellow Americans, is how
attend those schools. The majority of Perhaps the worst part of it was that we get full circle back to the supersized
these debts are held by families who it authorized $80 billion in new funding IRS. It is a vicious cycle to fund a rad-
have zero net worth—zero. What will to the IRS—$80 billion. For reference, ical, socialist agenda. We have to stop
their life be like without help? Nearly that is about the same as what we allo- it now.
90 percent of the relief dollars in the cated for Florida’s entire State budget I am here to do what countless Flo-
President’s plan will go to borrowers when I was Governor, and Florida is ridians have asked me to do—strike
who earn less than $75,000 a year. the third largest State in the Nation. this terrible policy from law. It is time
And let’s reflect for a moment on Even though the IRS does a poor job to rein in the Federal Government, and
what has happened over the last few with the resources it currently has, the that work begins with putting a stop to
years in the United States of America Democrats opted to supersize the IRS Biden’s IRS army. My bill would sim-
under the previous President who will so they could fund 87,000 new IRS ply repeal this disastrous IRS expan-
go unnamed and what we have seen as agents, some of whom will be armed sion, and I ask all of my colleagues to
a result of this pandemic. and willing to use deadly force to carry support it.
Remember when we came up and out their duties. Mr. President, as in legislative ses-
were unable to articulate the number So, while the Democrats are calling sion, I ask unanimous consent that the
‘‘trillion dollars’’ without shaking? We to defund the police and are leaving Senate proceed to the immediate con-
started talking about trillion-dollar re- our Border Patrol agents without the sideration of S. 4798. I further ask that
lief packages in the pandemic. And we tools they need to secure the southern the bill be considered read a third time
said to people: We are going to have border, they are happy to enlarge the and passed and that the motion to re-
loans through the Small Business Ad- IRS. We don’t even have 20,000 Border consider be considered made and laid
ministration for people who have a job Patrol agents—a quarter of the number upon the table.
or a business and need a helping hand of new IRS agents the Democrats want; The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
in terms of borrowing money to get by. yet they have now approved 87,000 addi- objection?
And if you can prove that you spent tional IRS agents. That is insane. The Senator from Oregon.
the money on payroll and utilities and That many agents under the direc- Mr. WYDEN. Mr. President, in re-
rent, it is forgiven. tion of President Biden should concern serving the right to object, it is time

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So take a look at that mechanism. every American. We all remember that for a reality check here in the Senate.
Through no fault of their own, they when Joe Biden was Vice President, The far right has had an awful lot to
were stuck with debt because of the the IRS went after conservative groups say about the IRS in these last few
pandemic. They borrowed money from and Tea Party organizations. Now, days. Even Senators who should sup-
the Federal Government—taxpayers’ armed with tens of billions in new posedly know better are spinning wild
money—and if they could spend it for funding and tens of thousands of new fantasy stories about 87,000 agents who
the right things, it was forgiven, a agents, what is stopping Joe Biden are armed to the teeth and coming to

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