Videotaped Deposition of Natalie Gonzales — Blue Flame Medical LLC v. Chain Bridge Bank, N.A. (Dkt. 132-42)
Summary
Case 1:20-cv-00658, Document 132-42, is Exhibit 42, an excerpt of the remote videotaped deposition of Natalie Gonzales, taken by Zoom on Thursday, January 28, 2021, in Blue Flame Medical LLC v. Chain Bridge Bank, N.A. The witness testifies about releasing a large wire transfer to Chain Bridge Bank on March 26th and about a JPMC call-back on the wire instructions. The witness testifies that David Evinger said the account holder was a political lobbyist and that the money had not been credited, and that the witness and Mr. Hariri asked Mr. Evinger to wait for more information. The witness says it was not the treasurer's office job to vet the counterparty and does not know whose job it was.
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Cite this document
“Videotaped Deposition of Natalie Gonzales — Blue Flame Medical LLC v. Chain Bridge Bank, N.A. (Dkt. 132-42).”
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EXHIBIT 42
Natalie Gonzales 1/28/2021
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1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
3 (Alexandria Division)
4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
5 BLUE FLAME MEDICAL LLC, :
6 Plaintiff, :
7 v. : Civil Action No.
8 CHAIN BRIDGE BANK, N.A., : 1:20-cv-00658
9 JOHN J. BROUGH and DAVID M. :
10 EVINGER, :
11 Defendants. :
12 _____________________________ :
13 CHAIN BRIDGE BANK, N.A., :
14 Third-Party Plaintiff, :
15 v. :
16 JPMORGAN CHASE BANK, N.A., :
17 Third-Party Defendant. :
18 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
19 Remote Deposition
20 Thursday, January 28, 2021
21 Videotaped deposition via Zoom of NATALIE
22 GONZALES, a witness herein, called for examination by
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1 more senior than Mr. Neville at JPMorgan Chase who is
2 responsible for the banking relationship?
3 A. I don't know.
4 Q. Okay. And then Ms. Brown, Tamara Brown,
5 what is her role to your knowledge with respect to
6 the banking relationship between JPMorgan Chase and
7 the state treasurer's office?
8 A. I believe she's Ana's supervisor.
9 Q. Okay. Okay. In the body of your
10 8:23 a.m. email, you write, "Hi, Ana, I are released
11 a large wire transfer to Chain Bridge Bank just now."
12 Do you see that?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What do you -- do you recall releasing a
15 large wire transfer to Chain Bridge Bank on
16 March 26th?
17 A. Do I remember it specifically? No. But I
18 know that I did.
19 Q. Okay. Fair enough.
20 Do you know the size of the large wire
21 transfer you released to Chain Bridge Bank on
22 March 26th?
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1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. And what was -- how large -- what was the
3 size?
4 A. It was approximately $468 million.
5 Q. Okay. Does 456 million and change sound
6 right to you?
7 A. Sounds better, yes.
8 Q. Okay. You then continue, "Can you please
9 check on it and ensure it is completed quickly?" Do
10 you see that?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Why did you write that?
13 A. I wrote that because large wire transfers
14 of that size can often be delayed and so, as we have
15 a relationship or a customer service representative,
16 in cases of large wire transfers, from time to time I
17 will contact her to let her know that a large wire is
18 coming down the pipeline so that, you know, on her
19 side, I don't know what she does, but to make sure
20 that the wire is completed.
21 Q. And when you are handling a large wire
22 transfer, do you believe it's important that your
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1 know, maybe because of the size of the wire, the
2 risk, you know, as to the amount of the wire.
3 Q. Okay. If you turn to the first page of
4 Exhibit 83 and at the bottom of the page, Ms. Prieto
5 replies to you at 8:40 a.m. on March 26th, "Good
6 morning, Natalie. Thank you for letting me know this
7 was initiated. I am working with our internal
8 partners and will let you know as soon as it is
9 released."
10 Do you see that?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And then you write back to Ms. Prieto and
13 others at 8:42 p.m., a couple of minutes later, and
14 you say, "Thank you, Ana. JPMC did a call-back with
15 me a few minutes ago." Do you see that?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What did you mean by JPMC did a call-back
18 with me a few minutes ago?
19 A. The bank called me. Someone from their --
20 I don't know what section of the bank they came from.
21 I believe it's typically the wire room or department,
22 and it's not usually a person -- it's not usually one
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1 of our relationship managers or customer service
2 representatives. It's someone in another department
3 of the bank. And I basically just verbally go over
4 the instructions of the wire that we initiated and
5 released.
6 Q. Okay. And do you recall doing that with
7 respect to this wire?
8 A. I don't remember the interaction but
9 obviously, based on this email, I did.
10 Q. And do you remember the name of the person
11 that -- who called you from JPMorgan Chase?
12 A. No.
13 Q. At the top of the first page of
14 Exhibit 83, which we'll scroll up to, Ms. Prieto
15 replies to you and others, and here's where it gets
16 tricky with the time zones. I believe the top
17 message is in GMT, and so to get from GMT to Pacific
18 Daylight Time, you need to subtract seven hours.
19 So I'll represent to you that 4:04 p.m.
20 GMT is 9:04 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. All right. So again, the prior email was
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1 Medical's bank account the previous day?
2 A. Yes, he did.
3 Q. Did Mr. Evinger tell you that the bank
4 client who had opened that account was a political
5 lobbyist?
6 A. Yes, he did.
7 Q. What if anything did you say in response
8 to Mr. Evinger informing you that a bank client who
9 was a political lobbyist had opened Blue Flame
10 Medical's account the prior day?
11 A. So Mark and I were both on the phone, and
12 the gist of what we said, I believe we asked him if
13 the money had been credited to the client account at
14 that time, and he said no. And we said, well, please
15 wait until we can find out additional information.
16 Q. Anything else?
17 A. To the best of my recollection, that's
18 about the gist of what was said in that phone
19 conversation.
20 Q. Okay. And why did you ask -- sorry. Did
21 you or Mr. Hariri ask whether the funds had been
22 credited to the client's account, if you remember?
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1 A. I -- I think I might have asked that
2 question.
3 Q. Okay. And why did you ask that question?
4 A. I had asked because there was concern
5 expressed about the wire transfer that Chain Bridge
6 Bank had received.
7 Q. Do you remember communicating to
8 Mr. Evinger in words or substance that you were
9 surprised to learn that Blue Flame Medical's account
10 had been opened only the day before?
11 A. I don't remember expressing any opinion to
12 Mr. Evinger about it.
13 Q. Okay. And I believe you said -- well, let
14 me just get it right. Just a second.
15 You testified that -- that you or
16 Mr. Hariri said, "Please wait until we can find out
17 additional information." Do you recall that
18 testimony?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What was the additional information you
21 had in mind to find out?
22 A. Well --
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1 MR. MADDEN: Same objection.
2 MS. PORTER: Also calls for a legal
3 conclusion.
4 BY MR. WHITE:
5 Q. You can answer.
6 A. I don't know that.
7 Q. So your concern was that if it had been
8 credited, it may be more difficult and maybe even
9 impossible to claw back, is that correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 MS. PORTER: Objection. I think that
12 misstated the testimony, but --
13 BY MR. WHITE:
14 Q. Okay. Your answer was yes, is that right,
15 Ms. Gonzales?
16 A. Yes. It would be more difficult to get it
17 back.
18 Q. And that's why you requested that
19 Mr. Evinger please wait, either you or Mr. Hariri, I
20 can't remember which it was, but one of you requested
21 that Mr. Evinger please wait for additional
22 information before crediting the money to the
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1 account, is that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So that was the reason for that request,
4 correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Evinger -- what
7 Mr. Evinger said was incorrect, that the money had
8 actually already been credited to the account?
9 MR. MADDEN: Objection, foundation.
10 BY MR. WHITE:
11 Q. You can answer.
12 A. I wasn't aware of that, no.
13 Q. Did you become aware of that later?
14 A. No. I actually never knew that fact.
15 Q. Can you think of any reason why
16 Mr. Evinger would not tell you the truth about
17 whether the money had been credited to the account in
18 that conversation?
19 MR. MADDEN: Objection, foundation.
20 BY MR. WHITE:
21 Q. You can answer.
22 A. No, I can't think of any reason.
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1 Q. Are you aware as well that the person who
2 opened this account has never been a political
3 lobbyist? Did you know that?
4 A. I did not know that.
5 Q. Do you know of any reason that Mr. Evinger
6 would not tell you the truth about what the bank's
7 customer actually did for a living previously?
8 MR. MADDEN: Objection, foundation.
9 MS. PORTER: Calls for speculation.
10 BY MR. WHITE:
11 Q. You can answer.
12 A. No, I don't know why.
13 Q. Did you ever find out later that in fact
14 the bank's customer was never a lobbyist? Are you
15 aware of that to this day?
16 A. No, I was not aware of that.
17 MR. MADDEN: Objection, foundation.
18 BY MR. WHITE:
19 Q. You were asked some questions about --
20 about what I think of as diligencing counterparties
21 to transactions, whether it's your job or someone
22 else's job to determine the legitimacy of
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1 counterparties to transactions. Do you remember
2 those questions?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And I think what you said was it was not
5 the treasurer's office job or your job to
6 diligence -- to engage in diligence about
7 counterparts. Am I correctly grasping the concept
8 there?
9 A. Yes, you're correct.
10 Q. And that job goes to the people in, I take
11 it, in procurement -- or maybe -- let me ask the
12 question this way, Ms. Gonzales. Whose job is that
13 in the State of California?
14 A. I think that's a complicated question to
15 answer. You know, we have over 200 different
16 departments that pay a multitude of vendors,
17 individuals, et cetera, so I couldn't speak to whose
18 job it is to, you know, vet their payees.
19 Q. Let me ask a better question,
20 Ms. Gonzales. I apologize. That was poorly phrased.
21 In connection with the Chain Bridge Bank
22 transaction that you've been testifying about today,
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1 whose job was it to vet the counterparty?
2 MS. PORTER: Objection, calls for
3 speculation.
4 BY MR. WHITE:
5 Q. You can --
6 MS. PORTER: Lacks foundation.
7 MR. WHITE: Okay. Sorry, Ms. Porter.
8 BY MR. WHITE:
9 Q. You can answer if you know.
10 A. I don't know, but the request for the wire
11 transfer was from the department of general services
12 but I don't know who is responsible for vetting.
13 Q. So it would be somebody inside the
14 department of general services but you don't know
15 who, is that correct?
16 MS. PORTER: Objection, misstates
17 testimony.
18 THE WITNESS: I don't know whose
19 responsibility it is to vet.
20 BY MR. WHITE:
21 Q. But not your office's responsibility,
22 correct?
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1 A. That's correct.
2 MS. PORTER: Asked and answered.
3 BY MR. WHITE:
4 Q. And it's your understanding that that
5 vetting process is to be completed before a request
6 for a wire transfer lands on your desk, isn't that
7 right?
8 A. Yes. Any financial transaction between
9 the department and their payee should happen before
10 we're sending the wire transfer.
11 Q. So when you get the warrant, if I'm using
12 the terms correctly, it is your understanding that
13 that process has been completed and the State of
14 California has approved the transferee of the wire
15 for the purpose stated, correct?
16 A. Yes. Once we receive the warrant, then --
17 and it's a duly drawn warrant, then we are legally
18 able to pay that item.
19 Q. I see. Prior to -- prior to the -- the
20 payment being authorized by your office, was there
21 anything about this transaction that indicated that
22 it was unusual in any -- in any way from what you
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1 Q. Of course. What I'm wondering is was
2 there anything about the process leading up to the
3 transaction that struck you as unusual in terms of --
4 let's just say in terms of approvals.
5 A. Not that I'm aware of. I got the
6 warrants, which is our authority to send a wire
7 transfer, so there was nothing out of the ordinary
8 from a transactional or operational standpoint.
9 Just, like I said, the heightened kind of, you know,
10 urgency or anxiety around this wire transfer was
11 different.
12 Q. And the intention of the State of
13 California was to send this wire transfer to Blue
14 Flame Medical at Chain Bridge Bank, correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. This is not a circumstance where the wire
17 was credited to the wrong counterparty, is it?
18 A. No.
19 Q. And I know you mentioned that large wires
20 can sometimes be delayed. This one actually went
21 through fairly quickly, isn't that correct?
22 A. Yes, it did.
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1 Q. So there wasn't a delay of the sort that
2 you were worried about because people wanted to see
3 it done. There wasn't that sort of delay in
4 connection with this wire, is that right?
5 A. No, there was not.
6 Q. If we could -- I'm going to move to some
7 documents here, Ms. Gonzales, so it might be a good
8 opportunity for me to take a break and go through my
9 notes.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. And get the ones that Mr. Madden has
12 already -- already asked you about. I also note that
13 it's noon and I want to be sensitive to your need for
14 a lunch break at some point. Does that make sense
15 now?
16 A. Sure. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. 45 minutes? Is that enough time,
18 Ms. Gonzales?
19 A. Yes.
20 MR. WHITE: Okay.
21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at
22 3:00 p.m.
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1 now.
2 Q. Have you had a circumstance where -- where
3 like a duplicate payment was made and you needed to
4 recall one? Is that one of the circumstances, or has
5 that not happened?
6 A. I can't recall that specific instance.
7 Q. Putting this one aside, the ones that you
8 recall being returned previously in your experience
9 are ones where the bank couldn't find the appropriate
10 account or there was not sufficient information to
11 post to an account. Do I have that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Neither of those circumstances were
14 present here, is that right?
15 A. Not to my knowledge, no.
16 Q. This was not a -- nobody ever told you
17 that the bank couldn't find the account or there
18 wasn't sufficient information to determine what
19 account the money was -- was to go to, is that
20 correct?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. Okay. In circumstances where you've had a
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1 return, is it typical that you would speak with the
2 counterparty's bank as you did in this circumstance?
3 Does that question make sense,
4 Ms. Gonzales, or should I try it again?
5 A. No, it's not typical for us to speak to
6 the counterparty's bank.
7 Q. So there was -- the conversation that you
8 had with Chain Bridge Bank here was unusual, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And it's unusual for the counterparty's
11 bank to initiate a conversation with you as happened
12 here, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Is it unique as in this is the only time
15 you can remember that happening or just unusual as in
16 it's happened otherwise?
17 MR. MADDEN: I'll object to the form,
18 misstates the testimony.
19 BY MR. WHITE:
20 Q. You can answer.
21 A. I cannot recall any other instance of the
22 recipient bank wanting to speak with me directly.
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1 is an internal JPMorgan document that indicates that
2 you confirmed the payments for this wire transmission
3 of $456,888,600 is valid, callback performed to a
4 known telephone number.
5 Do you know what that means?
6 Ms. Gonzales?
7 MR. WHITE: I think her screen may have
8 frozen.
9 MS. PORTER: It looks like she is -- she
10 is frozen.
11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would you like to go
12 off the record?
13 MR. WHITE: Yes, why don't we go off
14 record for a moment. Thanks.
15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at
16 4:24 p.m.
17 (Recess.)
18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now back on the
19 record. The time is 4:30 p.m.
20 BY MR. WHITE:
21 Q. Ms. Gonzales, when -- when we were cut off
22 there, I was asking you -- let me ask you this
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1 question. There was an internal JPMorgan document
2 that has -- indicates that you confirmed payment is
3 valid, callback performed on a known telephone
4 number. It's not a document you've seen so I'm not
5 going to show it to you here but do you know what
6 that references in connection with this wire
7 transfer?
8 A. I believe it's referencing the callback
9 that I did after we released the wire online.
10 Q. And that's a callback with whom?
11 A. With the bank. I don't recall the name of
12 the person I spoke with but --
13 Q. I see.
14 A. -- a representative will call and ask us
15 to verbally verify the details of wire transfers.
16 Q. Verbal verification, frequently on a
17 recorded line, for example, is it that sort of
18 conversation?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And that would go through the
21 details of exactly the amount and the correspondent
22 bank and the account number and all that sort of
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1 information?
2 A. Yes. I essentially reiterate what's --
3 the department provided to me.
4 Q. Okay. I think the last one, Ms. Gonzales,
5 I want you to take a look at, it's previously
6 introduced as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7. Again, a long
7 email chain. I'm sorry. That's the wrong -- hold on
8 one second.
9 I lied. There's two documents, this one
10 and one other.
11 Plaintiff's Exhibit 7, Keni.
12 And it's only the first page I'm going to
13 ask you about, SCO0585.
14 A. I see it.
15 Q. Okay. Ms. Gonzales, this is -- you may
16 have seen part of this email transaction before but
17 all I want to ask you about is the top email from
18 Daniel Kim. "Thank you, everyone. The
19 administration approves the wire transfer. Please
20 proceed."
21 Can you tell me what that means?
22 MR. MADDEN: Objection to form.
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1 Q. Okay. And that was you and Mr. Hariri?
2 Am I pronouncing his name correctly?
3 A. Yes, Hariri.
4 Q. Now, when the phone call was made, I don't
5 recall you saying that there was any conversation
6 about verifying that the wire amount is legitimate,
7 which is what's referenced here. Was there any
8 conversation in your -- let me start that over.
9 When you spoke with Mr. Evinger, was there
10 any conversation about verifying the wire amount as
11 legitimate?
12 A. I don't remember specifically speaking of
13 that, no.
14 Q. As a matter of fact, the conversation was
15 all about potentially problematic aspects of the
16 transaction involving Blue Flame, isn't that right?
17 MR. MADDEN: Objection to form,
18 foundation.
19 BY MR. WHITE:
20 Q. You can answer.
21 A. Can you repeat the question?
22 Q. Sure. Let me try a different one because
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1 it was probably a bad question.
2 As I heard your conversation previously,
3 the conversation you had with Mr. Evinger was not
4 about whether the wire amount was legitimate, is that
5 right?
6 A. That's right.
7 Q. The topics that he raised went to whether
8 there was something problematic with Blue Flame
9 Medical being the recipient of the wire, isn't that
10 right?
11 MR. MADDEN: Objection to form,
12 foundation, misstates the testimony.
13 BY MR. WHITE:
14 Q. You can answer.
15 A. The conversation was with regard to
16 informing the treasurer's office that the account had
17 just been opened the day prior and that the account
18 holder was a lobbyist. I don't remember specifically
19 speaking about a dollar amount.
20 Q. I see. So -- so the conversation was not
21 about whether the wire amount was right, correct?
22 A. That's accurate.
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1 Q. And the conversation was not about whether
2 it was actually credited to the right account,
3 correct?
4 A. No, it wasn't.
5 MR. MADDEN: Object -- objection to form.
6 BY MR. WHITE:
7 Q. The conversation was about whether this
8 was a legitimate counterparty on the other side,
9 isn't that right?
10 MR. MADDEN: Objection to form,
11 foundation, misstates the testimony.
12 BY MR. WHITE:
13 Q. You can answer.
14 A. Yeah, I don't know if it was so much
15 legitimacy. It was just I really couldn't speak to
16 why he called. Apparently it was -- there was some
17 concern. So --
18 Q. But the concern was not about the amount
19 of the wire or whether it got to the correct account,
20 was it?
21 A. No, in the fact that we didn't discuss the
22 amount or the account number.
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Natalie Gonzales 1/28/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 132-42 Filed 05/07/21 Page 25 of 27Page 130
PageID# 2888
1 Q. The only things Mr. Evinger brought up
2 were that, according to him, the person who opened
3 the account was a lobbyist and that the account had
4 been recently opened. Is that your recollection?
5 A. That's what I remember.
6 Q. And what did -- what did that mean to you?
7 Why did you think he was mentioning those issues?
8 MR. MADDEN: Objection to form, compound.
9 BY MR. WHITE:
10 Q. Let me ask one question. Why did you
11 think he was bringing up those issues?
12 A. Well, I think he was probably concerned
13 because of the size of the wire, though he didn't
14 talk about the dollar amount. I think that it was
15 probably definitely unusual for his bank to receive a
16 wire of that size.
17 Q. And what did you understand his concern to
18 be?
19 A. I --
20 MR. MADDEN: Objection to form,
21 speculation.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
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Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 132-42 Filed 05/07/21 Page 26 of 27Page 131
PageID# 2889
1 BY MR. MADDEN:
2 Q. So you don't know what his concern was?
3 MR. MADDEN: Same objection.
4 MS. PORTER: Asked and answered.
5 THE WITNESS: I don't know what his
6 concern specifically was. I assumed he was maybe
7 doing his due diligence. I don't know.
8 BY MR. WHITE:
9 Q. And during that phone call, did
10 Mr. Evinger tell you that the money had already been
11 credited to the Blue Flame Medical account?
12 A. No, he did not.
13 Q. Matter of fact, he stated the opposite,
14 correct?
15 A. He didn't state it. We asked if it had
16 been. He said no, and we asked him to wait.
17 Q. Ms. Gonzales, I think if we take maybe a
18 five-minute break, I may not have any other questions
19 but I want to check with my cocounsel. So I think
20 the most efficient thing to do would be to go off the
21 record for a few minutes now.
22 A. Okay.
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Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 132-42 Filed 05/07/21 Page 27 of 27Page 132
PageID# 2890
1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 4:42.
2 (Recess.)
3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now back on the
4 record. The time is 4:47 p.m.
5 BY MR. WHITE:
6 Q. Just one final area, Ms. Gonzales. You
7 mentioned that you thought that Mr. Evinger was doing
8 his diligence, I think in response to the last
9 question I asked you.
10 Was he asking you any questions about Blue
11 Flame Medical?
12 A. I don't remember him asking me any
13 questions.
14 Q. From what it -- from what you said, it
15 sounds like he was telling you things about Blue
16 Flame Medical that he thought you might not know. Is
17 that accurate?
18 A. That's what it seemed like.
19 Q. How is that him doing diligence? What did
20 you mean by that?
21 MR. MADDEN: Object to form.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't know. It seemed to
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