Deposition of Daniel Kim — Blue Flame Medical LLC v. Chain Bridge Bank, N.A. (E.D. Va., Dkt. 130-11)
Summary
Exhibit 11, Case 1:20-cv-00658, Document 130-11, filed 05/06/21 (E.D. Va.): excerpts from the remote deposition via Zoom of Daniel Kim, taken Monday, March 29, 2021, in Blue Flame Medical LLC v. Chain Bridge Bank, N.A., John J. Brough and David M. Evinger. Carolyn Forstein examines for Chain Bridge Bank, N.A., and Cara Porter, deputy attorney general, represents the witness. Kim testifies that he is now assistant county administrator for Yolo County and was previously director of the Department of General Services for the state of California for five and a half years. Kim says the department was purchasing PPE on behalf of the state, that its vendor vetting in March 2020 was more expedited than normal, and that the chief procurement officer, Angela Shell, was largely responsible. Kim recognizes text messages from John Thomas.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
Cite this document
“Deposition of Daniel Kim — Blue Flame Medical LLC v. Chain Bridge Bank, N.A. (E.D. Va., Dkt. 130-11).”
Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/court-filing-no-1-20-cv-00658-dkt-130-11-e-d-va-4c79b1dc1e/
, SHA-256 2f97fef418c51608208a799e0c3b6443267faf9f03e7e96f88a25c3894c8a522.Full text
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 1 of 14
PageID# 1534
EXHIBIT 11
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 2 of 14Page 1 (1)
PageID# 1535
1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
3 (Alexandria Division)
4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
5 BLUE FLAME MEDICAL LLC, :
6 Plaintiff, :
7 v. : Civil Action No.
8 CHAIN BRIDGE BANK, N.A., : 1:20-cv-00658
9 JOHN J. BROUGH and DAVID M. :
10 EVINGER, :
11 Defendants. :
12 _____________________________ :
13 CHAIN BRIDGE BANK, N.A., :
14 Third-Party Plaintiff, :
15 v. :
16 JPMORGAN CHASE BANK, N.A., :
17 Third-Party Defendant. :
18 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
19 Remote Deposition
20 Monday, March 29, 2021
21 Deposition via Zoom of DANIEL KIM, a
22 witness herein, called for examination by counsel for
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 3 ofPage
14 2 (2 - 5)
PageID# 1536
Page 2 Page 4
1 Defendants/Third-Party Plaintiff Chain Bridge Bank, 1
APPEARANCES (Continued):
2 N.A., in the above-entitled matter, pursuant to 2
3 notice, the witness being duly sworn by MARY GRACE 3
On behalf of Defendant/Third-Party Plaintiff
4 CASTLEBERRY, a Notary Public in and for the State of 4
Chain Bridge Bank, N.A.:
5 Maryland, taken at 9:02 a.m. PST, Monday, March 29, 5
CAROLYN FORSTEIN, ESQ.
6 2021, and the proceedings being taken down by 6
DONALD BURKE, ESQ.
7 Stenotype by MARY GRACE CASTLEBERRY, RPR, and 7
Robbins Russell Englert, Orseck,
8 transcribed under her direction. 8
Untereiner & Sauber
9 9
2000 K Street, N.W., 4th Floor
10 10
Washington, D.C. 20006
11 11
(202) 775-4500
12 12
cforstein@robbinsrussell.com
13 13
dburke@robbinsrussell.com
14 14
znferguson@robbinsrussell.com
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
Page 3 Page 5
1 1
APPEARANCES: APPEARANCES (Continued):
2 2
3 3
On behalf of the Plaintiff Blue Flame Medical On behalf of Third-Party Defendant JPMorgan
4 4
LLC: Chase Bank:
5 5
GREG KETCHAM-COLWILL, ESQ. ALBINAS PRIZGINTAS, ESQ.
6 6
JASON MITCHELL, ESQ. Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr LLP
7 7
KENI UKABIALA, ESQ. 1875 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
8 8
Schulte Roth & Zabel Washington, D.C. 20006
9 9
901 15th Street, N.W., Suite 800 (212) 663-6981
10 10
Washington, D.C. 20005 albinas.prizgintas@wilmerhale.com
11 11
(202) 729-7476
12 12
gregory.ketcham-colwill@srz.com On behalf of the deponent:
13 13
jason.mitchell@srz.com CARA PORTER, ESQ.
14 14
ekenedilichukwu@ukabiala@srz.com SARAH FABIAN, ESQ.
15 15
and Office of the Attorney General
16 16
ETHAN BEARMAN, ESQ. California Department of Justice
17 17
The Bearman Firm 455 Golden Gate Avenue, Suite 11000
18 18
10250 Constellation Boulevard, Suite 100 San Francisco, California 94102-7020
19 19
Los Angeles, California 90067 (415) 254-3934
20 20
(747) 344-1004 cara.porter@doj.ca.gov
21 21
sarah.fabian@doj.ca.gov
22 22
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 4Page
of 14 (10 - 13)
PageID# 1537
Page 10 Page 12
1 record today is my colleague, Jason Mitchell. Also 1 you can all have our respective statements recorded.
2 joining from time to time may be my colleagues, Pete 2
Secondly, if at any point in time you need
3 White, Bill Gussman and Keni Ukabiala and Blue Flame 3 a break, please just ask.
We typically take breaks
4 Medical's chief legal officer, Ethan Bearman. 4 roughly once an hour or every hour and a half, but if
5 MR. PRIZGINTAS: This is Albinas 5 you need a break at any point, please just ask and
6 Prizgintas for third-party defendant, JPMorgan Chase 6 I'm happy to break as requested.
7 Bank, N.A. 7 Mr. Kim, how did you prepare for today's
8 MS. PORTER: Good morning. Cara Porter, 8 deposition?
9 deputy attorney general. I represent the witness, 9 A. Prepare? I don't know what you mean by
10 Daniel Kim. Also on the line with me is fellow 10 that.
11 deputy attorney general Sarah L. Fabian. 11 Q. Sure. Did you review any documents in
12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter 12 preparation for the deposition today?
13 please administer the oath. 13 A. Not recently.
14 Whereupon, 14 Q. Okay. Other than your attorneys, did you
15 DANIEL KIM, 15 discuss today's deposition with anyone else at the
16 was called as a witness by counsel for 16 state of California?
17 Defendants/Third-Party Plaintiff Chain Bridge Bank, 17 A. No.
18 N.A., and having been duly sworn by the Notary 18 Q. And what is your current job title?
19 Public, was examined and testified as follows: 19 A. I am the assistant county administrator
20 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANTS/THIRD-PARTY 20 for Yolo County.
21 PLAINTIFF CHAIN BRIDGE BANK, N.A. 21 Q. When did you begin in that role?
22 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 22 A. February 1st.
Page 11 Page 13
1 Q. Good morning, Mr. Kim. As mentioned, my 1 Q. And what was your prior role?
2 name is Carolyn Forstein representing defendants in 2 A. I was the director of the Department of
3 this matter. Thanks for being with us today. 3 General Services for the state of California.
4 Just to begin with, could you state your 4 Q. How long did you serve in that role for?
5 full name again. 5 A. Five and a half years.
6 A. Daniel Kim. 6 Q. And could you describe your
7 Q. And where are you currently located? 7 responsibilities as the director of the Department of
8 A. I'm in Woodland, California in my work 8 General Services?
9 office. 9 A. I oversaw the department, which is
10 Q. Is there anyone else currently present in 10 effectively the business manager for the state of
11 the room with you? 11 California. So I had a number of different
12 A. No. 12 functions, which included real estate, construction,
13 Q. And Mr. Kim, have you been deposed before? 13 facility management, procurement, fleet, the Division
14 A. No. 14 of State Architects, Building Standards Commission,
15 Q. Great. I'm sure your counsel has probably 15 Office of Public School, construction, Office of
16 gone over some of the logistics with you, but just a 16 Administrative Hearings, and a number of other
17 couple of quick points to start with. 17 offices.
18 The first is that just for the court 18 Q. Who did you report to as the director of
19 reporter, we should try to all speak one at a time. 19 the Department of General Services?
20 So I will do my best not to interrupt or cut you off, 20 A. I reported to the secretary of government
21 and it's just important so that we can get a clear 21 operations agency.
22 record and so that each of the parties and myself and 22 Q. And who was the secretary in March of
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 5Page
of 14
5 (14 - 17)
PageID# 1538
Page 14 Page 16
1 2020? 1 A. Our role was to be one of a number of
2 A. Yolanda Richardson. 2 departments that were part of the statewide task
3 Q. And who were your direct reports in March 3 force for logistics and commodity movement. We had a
4 of 2020 while you were the director of the 4 number of different roles in that capacity. In terms
5 department? 5 of PPE, we were purchasing PPE on behalf of the
6 A. I had about 18 different direct reports. 6 state.
7 Do you want me to go through all of them? 7 Q. Did the Department of General Services
8 Q. If you recall them, yes, please. 8 play a role in vetting potential PPE vendors?
9 A. The names and titles or just the names? 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Names and titles. 10 Q. What was that role?
11 A. Okay. Let's start with my assistant, 11 A. Our staff, who were doing procurement
12 Carmen Llamas. My chief deputy position was vacant, 12 along with other staff who were part of the logistics
13 so had Jason Kenney, the real estate deputy director. 13 commodity movement team, were doing some vetting to
14 Brent Jamison, who was the deputy director for 14 determine whether the vendors met the qualifications
15 internal services division. Had Angela Shell, who 15 necessary to purchase from.
16 was the deputy director for procurement. Had Zach 16 Q. And what were the qualifications that were
17 Morazzini, who was the deputy director for the Office 17 necessary to purchase from in March 2020?
18 of Administrative Hearings. 18 A. I don't know the specifics, but I do know
19 Oh, gosh, let's see. Trying to -- we 19 that our process for vetting was much more expedited
20 had -- oh, my gosh. Nancy Ander, deputy director for 20 than it would normally have been, outside of an
21 sustainability. Jemahl Amen, deputy director for 21 emergency.
22 facility management division. We had -- let's see, 22 Q. And who in your office was primarily
Page 15 Page 17
1 I'm trying to figure out the direct reports. Chuck 1 responsible for that work?
2 Tobia, who's the deputy director for strategic 2 A. Our chief procurement officer was largely
3 planning. Monica Hassan, the deputy director for 3 responsible for that.
4 public affairs. Anita Kung, who is my special 4 Q. And who was that in March 2020?
5 assistant. Ida Clair was the acting state architect 5 A. Angela Shell.
6 over the Division of State Architect. Juan Vasquez, 6 Q. And you mentioned that the department's
7 who's the deputy director for special projects. 7 rollout of the vetting process was abbreviated from
8 How many is that? 8 what the usual vetting procedure would be. What is
9 Q. I likewise haven't been counting, but if 9 DG -- outside of the context of the pandemic, how do
10 those are the ones you recall, that's all we're 10 vetting procedures typically work for procurement at
11 asking for. 11 DGS?
12 A. Yeah. 12 A. And I don't know the specifics of the
13 Q. And why did you leave the Department of 13 vetting procedure. I just know that the process is
14 General Services? 14 much more time-intensive and rigorous.
15 A. I left because I found a position in Yolo 15 Q. Was vetting vendors difficult at the start
16 County that fit my skill sets that was a great 16 of the COVID-19 pandemic in March 2020?
17 opportunity to be working under a really reputable 17 A. Yes.
18 leader for more pay than I was making at the state. 18 Q. And why was that?
19 Q. And turning back to March of 2020, what 19 A. We were asked to purchase PPE in a very
20 was the Department of General Services' role in 20 expedited time frame. Typically a procurement that
21 procuring personal protective equipment for the state 21 the state conducts takes anywhere from six months to
22 of California? 22 12 months. So we had days rather than months or a
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 6Page
of 14
6 (18 - 21)
PageID# 1539
Page 18 Page 20
1 year. 1 Again, advance payment is not something that we do
2 Q. Does the department have a policy 2 typically. Even under emergency circumstances, we
3 concerning prepayment for goods or services? 3 typically do not do advance payments.
4 A. We do not. The department did not have an 4 Q. Were the advance payments that the
5 official policy on that. 5 department was considering in March 2020 the first
6 Q. Did the department have a typical 6 time that you had considered prepaying for goods or
7 practice? 7 services?
8 A. No. 8 MS. PORTER: Objection. Will counsel
9 Q. Did the department, outside of an 9 please clarify who "you" is in the question?
10 emergency context, did the department prepay for 10 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
11 goods or services? 11 Q. Sure. You, Director Kim.
12 A. No. 12 A. Could you repeat the question, please?
13 Q. Did this change in the context of the 13 Q. Sure. In your experience, was March 2020
14 pandemic? 14 the first time when you personally at the department
15 A. Yes. 15 had to consider prepaying for goods or services?
16 Q. So typically outside of the pandemic or 16 A. Yes.
17 other emergency contexts, would DGS only pay after it 17 Q. And in this context in which you were
18 had received the goods or services that it had been 18 considering prepaying for goods or services, were you
19 contracted for? 19 relying on the vendor's description of when those
20 A. Yes. 20 goods would be delivered?
21 Q. So the department would typically have the 21 MS. PORTER: Objection. Vague as to
22 goods in hand at the time of payment? 22 "you."
Page 19 Page 21
1 A. I don't know the answer to that because we 1 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
2 do procurement vehicles and oftentimes other 2 Q. Sure. Mr. Kim, when you personally were
3 departments utilize those services, so they would 3 considering this in March of 2020, would you have
4 purchase and receive those goods. So we would not be 4 relied on the representations of a vendor as to when
5 receiving the goods ourselves. But my understanding 5 goods would be delivered?
6 -- it's my understanding is that payment would happen 6 MS. PORTER: Objection. Assumes facts not
7 upon receipt. 7 in evidence.
8 Q. Understood. Thank you for the 8 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
9 clarification. And just for the record, if I refer 9 Q. Sure. Mr. Kim, you can answer the
10 to DGS or the department, is that fair to understand 10 question.
11 that that refers to the Department of General 11 A. I would rely on staff.
12 Services? 12 Q. And which staff would you have relied on?
13 A. Yes. So I will try to clarify when it's 13 A. The LCM team, so whoever was doing that
14 the DGS or procurement vehicle that is being 14 vetting. I'm not going to be talking to each
15 purchased on behalf of another state department. 15 individual, but if it comes to me, I'm presuming that
16 Q. Thank you. And I will try to do the same. 16 that's been vetted.
17 And if at any point it's unclear which department we 17 Q. Sure. And is that the team that you
18 are referring to, please just let me know. 18 mentioned that was led by Angela Shell?
19 When a vendor does seek advance payment in 19 A. Yes.
20 an emergency context, does DGS rely on the vendor's 20 Q. And you mentioned that DGS worked with
21 representations regarding delivery? 21 other agencies in this task force. Which other
22 A. I don't know the specifics of that. 22 agencies did DGS work with?
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 7Page
of 14
7 (22 - 25)
PageID# 1540
Page 22 Page 24
1 A. Within our task force, we worked largely 1 A. Oh, just a piece of paper indicating a
2 with Cal OES, but also EMSA and Cal Fire and public 2 vendor.
3 health. 3 Q. Is that a particular form that you would
4 Q. And did you work with the state 4 receive or more just a note?
5 controller's office at all? 5 A. Just a note.
6 A. On the procurement? 6 Q. Do you recall who you received a slip from
7 Q. Yes. 7 about Blue Flame Medical?
8 A. Generally, we didn't work with them, to my 8 A. Yes.
9 knowledge, on procurement. 9 Q. Who was that?
10 Q. And same question with respect to the 10 A. Ms. Matosantos.
11 state treasurer's office. Did you work with them at 11 Q. And where does she work?
12 all on procurement? 12 A. She works for the state. The governor's
13 A. Again, we don't -- can you clarify what 13 office.
14 you mean by procurement? 14 Q. And does the governor's office typically
15 Q. Sure. The contracting for goods and 15 refer vendors or potential vendors to DGS?
16 services. 16 A. There was nothing typical about the
17 A. No, my team did not generally work with 17 situation. So at that time, when we were receiving
18 the state controller or the treasurer's office on 18 tips from people, we were getting them from the
19 procurements. 19 governor's office and from others throughout the
20 Q. Sure. Changing topics slightly, do you 20 state and beyond. So in that context, it was
21 recall when you first heard about Blue Flame Medical? 21 typical. Outside of the context of the pandemic,
22 A. Can you clarify that? What do you mean by 22 it's not typical.
Page 23 Page 25
1 recall? 1 Q. And you mentioned that at the time, you
2 Q. Sure. 2 were receiving hundreds of tips about potential
3 A. When I recall? 3 vendors. What did you do upon receipt of a tip?
4 Q. Yes. 4 A. I would give them to my staff.
5 A. Yes. 5 Q. And what would they do?
6 Q. I apologize if the question was unclear. 6 A. They would contact the vendors.
7 When was that that you first heard of Blue Flame 7 Q. Would they go through any sort of vetting
8 Medical? 8 process?
9 A. In late March. 9 A. They did go through some vetting. I'm not
10 Q. Do you recall how you heard about Blue 10 sure of the particulars. But as I mentioned before,
11 Flame Medical? 11 it was a much more expedited process.
12 A. Yes. 12 Q. And was the goal upon -- once you received
13 Q. How did you hear about them? 13 a tip -- I'm just trying to get an understanding of
14 A. I received just a slip saying that this is 14 what the department's process was at the time upon
15 a potential vendor to consider, one of many slips and 15 receiving a potential opportunity to contact a
16 referrals I received throughout the course of that 16 vendor. Did your staff then ask about availability
17 period. 17 and price and that sort of thing?
18 Just to give you some context, we were 18 A. Yes.
19 receiving tens, hundreds of requests or tips from 19 Q. What information was the department
20 people on vendors who might have PPE. 20 seeking to gather from potential vendors at that
21 Q. And just for my understanding, what do you 21 time?
22 mean by a slip? 22 A. Generally speaking, we wanted to know the
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 8Page
of 14
9 (30 - 33)
PageID# 1541
Page 30 Page 32
1 a laptop or a tablet? 1 just let me know if you need more time to read it or
2 A. I'm on a Surface. 2 would like to see more of the document.
3 Q. Okay. We'll try to use -- and are you now 3 A. Could you scroll so I can read that
4 able to see this document again? 4 quickly and then we can go paragraph by
5 A. Yes. 5 paragraph-like?
6 Q. Great. So we would like to mark this 6 Q. Sure. That's great. Just let me know
7 document as -- this is BFM_CA_DGS6515. 7 when you're ready for me to scroll a bit further.
8 A. 6516. 8 MS. PORTER: Ms. Forstein, while we're --
9 Q. 6516. Thank you for the correction. I'm 9 while Mr. Kim is taking a moment to review this, will
10 just trying to confirm exactly which exhibit number 10 you please put the exhibit into the chat? A link
11 this should be. 11 into the chat?
12 MS. FORSTEIN: I believe this will be 12 MS. FORSTEIN: Sure.
13 Defendants' Exhibit 108. 13 THE WITNESS: If you could scroll, please.
14 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 108 was 14 Okay.
15 identified for the record.) 15 MS. FORSTEIN: Ms. Porter, are you able to
16 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 16 open the document?
17 Q. Mr. Kim, do you recognize this document? 17 MS. PORTER: I'm trying right now.
18 A. I don't, but it looks like I wrote it. 18 MS. FORSTEIN: Sure.
19 Q. Sure. And can I ask, do you know what 19 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
20 this is? 20 Q. And Mr. Kim, if you are able to view the
21 A. Writing notes about what occurred. 21 chat function, I know it's been unavailable for some
22 Q. And it looks like this may be an email or 22 witnesses based on their technology, but if you're
Page 31 Page 33
1 a draft email. Do you know whether this is -- what 1 able to view the chat function on Zoom and can open
2 format this document is in? 2 the document there, then that also works as well.
3 A. No, but it looks like an email. 3 A. Trying it now.
4 Q. And if you look at the date on the top, 4 Q. Were you able to open the document --
5 could you read that date? 5 A. Yes.
6 A. 10/26/2020. 6 Q. -- through the chat function? Great. And
7 Q. Do you have any recollection why you would 7 just let me know when you're ready to begin
8 have recorded notes about Blue Flame Medical in 8 discussing.
9 October of 2020? 9 A. Okay. Okay.
10 MS. PORTER: Objection. Assumes facts not 10 Q. Did reading through these notes refresh
11 in evidence. 11 your recollection as to whether or not you wrote
12 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 12 these down in October of 2020?
13 Q. Mr. Kim, if you happen to know, you can 13 A. Yes.
14 answer. 14 Q. And if I could direct you first to the
15 A. I was probably trying to recall what 15 very top paragraph where you say, "I received a
16 happened. 16 referral for someone who might be able to help us
17 Q. Sure. And I have a number of questions 17 procure critical medical supplies."
18 about this document and we'll be sort of going 18 Is this the slip that you referred to
19 through it chronologically. If you'd like to take a 19 earlier?
20 look at it now, I'm happy to have you read through 20 A. Yes.
21 the entire thing now and we can ask questions about 21 Q. And you received this slip from
22 it, or you can just go paragraph by paragraph. But 22 Ms. Matosantos in the governor's office?
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page Page
9 of 14
10 (34 - 37)
PageID# 1542
Page 34 Page 36
1 A. Yes. 1 Mr. Thomas that day. Did this slip include mention
2 Q. Did Ms. Matosantos tell you anything at 2 of John Thomas?
3 that point about Blue Flame Medical? 3 A. I don't recall.
4 A. No. Well, can you clarify? What do you 4 Q. And who is Michael Wong?
5 mean by -- 5 A. He is one of the staff who is on the
6 Q. Sure. I suppose an easier question might 6 logistics commodity movement task force and is a DGS
7 be what did the referral say? 7 buyer.
8 A. It was to contact this person. He might 8 Q. Do you know why Michelle asked Mr. Wong to
9 have N95 masks. 9 follow up with Mr. Thomas?
10 Q. Did it say anything about the potential 10 MS. PORTER: Objection. Calls for
11 quantity of N95s? 11 speculation.
12 A. No. 12 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
13 Q. Did Ms. Matosantos mention anything about 13 Q. Mr. Kim, I'm just asking for your
14 Blue Flame Medical having access to masks available 14 understanding, if you have one.
15 in the Port of Long Beach? 15 A. Michael Wong was one of our buyers. So he
16 A. No. 16 was one of the people who would be contacting vendors
17 Q. Did the initial referral from 17 that had PPE.
18 Ms. Matosantos tell you that Blue Flame Medical had 18 Q. Sure. If I can direct you to the second
19 represented that it had made deliveries to other 19 paragraph in the document that we've been looking at,
20 states? 20 the first sentence begins, "Mr. Thomas identified
21 A. I don't recall, but no. My -- my 21 himself as a strategic sourcer with direct access to
22 recollection is that it was literally a phone number 22 manufacturers in China."
Page 35 Page 37
1 of a contact. 1 Do you recall learning this information?
2 Q. And going back to the top paragraph in 2 A. What do you mean by that, that I recall
3 Defendants' Exhibit 108, you then say that you shared 3 that that's what he represented himself as?
4 this information with Angela Shell to follow up. Is 4 Q. Sure. How -- did Mr. Thomas have a
5 this correct? 5 conversation with Mr. Wong?
6 A. Yes. 6 A. I don't know.
7 Q. And do you know what Ms. Shell did 7 Q. How did you learn this information about
8 subsequently? 8 Mr. Thomas?
9 MS. PORTER: Objection. Vague. 9 A. I talked to him at one point, but I also
10 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 10 talked to Mr. Wong.
11 Q. Sure. I can -- let me rephrase this. 11 Q. When did -- do you recall, when did you
12 How did you pass this along or how did you 12 talk to Mr. Wong?
13 share this information with Ms. Shell? 13 A. Probably sometime after I gave Angela the
14 A. I gave her the slip of paper. 14 slip.
15 Q. Did you tell her what to do with the slip 15 Q. And when Mr. Thomas identified himself as
16 of paper? 16 a sourcer with direct access to manufacturers in
17 A. I don't recall the specifics other than 17 China, did he identify any particular manufacturers?
18 what I was doing with most referrals is just sending 18 A. He did.
19 them to her, saying here's another referral. This 19 Q. Who did he identify?
20 one is for N95s. 20 A. I don't recall the person, but he
21 Q. Great. And you say then in your notes 21 mentioned his neighbor, Henry something, who
22 that Ms. Shell later asked Michael Wong to contact 22 manufactured or owned some plants in China.
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 10 of 11
Page 14(38 - 41)
PageID# 1543
Page 38 Page 40
1 Q. And continuing on in that same paragraph, 1 Q. Do you recall what this was?
2 in the document that we've been looking at, in the 2 A. No.
3 third sentence you say, "He offered to sell 100M N95 3 Q. And do you recall if he identified a
4 masks at a low cost (relative to the current market 4 particular brand of N95 mask?
5 rate) and have the items ship quickly to California." 5 A. No. I do recall that he said that they
6 First, do you understand 100M to refer to 6 were NIOSH certified.
7 100 million? 7 Q. Understood. Was NIOSH certification a
8 A. Yes. 8 requirement for California to purchase N95 masks at
9 Q. And do you recall Mr. Thomas making this 9 that point?
10 offer? 10 A. I don't recall if they were at that point.
11 A. Yes. 11 But, again, this is speculation. I believe they
12 Q. You say that he offered to sell the 100 12 were. I know they were definitely in April and I --
13 million N95 masks at a low cost relative to the 13 that was so early, I'm not sure.
14 current market rate. Do you recall what the current 14 Q. And moving down one paragraph to the third
15 market rate was in March of 2020? 15 paragraph in this document, you note that DGS did not
16 A. Let's put it this way. We were getting 16 approve advance payments outside of an emergency
17 price ranges up to $12 a mask. I think prior to 17 order. Is this what we were discussing earlier about
18 that, prior to the pandemic, they were as cheap as 63 18 DGS typically not prepaying for goods?
19 cents a mask. But at the ranges that we were getting 19 A. Yes.
20 from most folks who had quantities were, if I recall, 20 Q. And then moving one paragraph down from
21 somewhere around 6 to $8. 21 that, the start of the fourth paragraph, you say,
22 Q. And then the next sentence goes on to say, 22 "Unknown to me at the time was Mr. Thomas' request
Page 39 Page 41
1 "As our focus was to get N95s as quickly as possible, 1 for 75 percent advance payment."
2 and the price was reasonable, our state procurement 2 Do you recall when you first learned that
3 staff were very interested in Mr. Thomas' offer." 3 Mr. Thomas was seeking advance payment?
4 Is this accurate? 4 A. No.
5 A. Yes. 5 Q. Was DGS prioritizing vendors that did not
6 Q. Was getting masks as quickly as possible a 6 require advance payment?
7 top priority for California? 7 A. In what context? Let me -- again, just
8 A. Yes. 8 to -- we wanted to get goods as soon as possible.
9 Q. And why was that? 9 The ideal circumstance would be to get NIOSH
10 A. We wanted to save lives. 10 certified N95s as soon as possible for the lowest
11 Q. Did Mr. Thomas say he quickly he could 11 price possible. Beggars can't be choosers, so we
12 have the items delivered to California? 12 were looking at other -- trying to weigh risk versus
13 A. Yes. I don't recall the specifics, but he 13 reward.
14 was talking about days or weeks. 14 Q. Understood. And I appreciate the
15 Q. And was the low cost relative to the 15 background on that as well. You note that,
16 current market rate also a significant factor for DGS 16 "Mr. Thomas provided information that made our staff
17 in looking at vendors? 17 feel he was a credible buyer."
18 A. Less significant than when we could 18 Do you see that sentence?
19 receive them. 19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you recall at this point if Mr. Thomas 20 Q. Is this correct?
21 offered a specific price per mask? 21 A. What is correct?
22 A. Yes. 22 Q. Sure. Do you recall that Mr. Thomas
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 11 of 12
Page 14(42 - 45)
PageID# 1544
Page 42 Page 44
1 provided information that made the staff feel he was 1 it the task force as a whole?
2 a credible buyer? 2 A. The task force alone could not make a
3 A. I recall my staff saying that he 3 decision like this for advance payment.
4 represented himself as that. 4 Q. Sure. And I'm just trying to understand
5 Q. And in this context, did your staff 5 sort of the process as to how the state at the time
6 include Ms. Shell? 6 was signing off on procurement orders. Could you
7 A. Michelle who? 7 just walk me through that briefly?
8 Q. Angela Shell. 8 How would you sort of -- once, you know,
9 A. Oh, Angela Shell. 9 DGS thinks that it has a vendor that it might want to
10 Q. Sorry, yes. 10 contract with, what are the next steps once you
11 A. Yes. 11 decided you might want to move forward?
12 Q. Did the staff also include Mr. Wong? 12 A. So typically -- well, not typically. Even
13 A. Yes. But again, I'm not sure who told me 13 under the emergency, if we were going to make an
14 what about Mr. Thomas and his firm. But my 14 order, the staff would make the order, if there was
15 understanding at the time -- and this could have been 15 no advance payment, and they could go ahead and
16 from -- directly from Mr. Thomas -- was that he was 16 proceed.
17 an American-based company. 17 If there was an advance payment, staff
18 Q. Do you recall any other information that 18 would try to negotiate that down. If it was -- and
19 made the staff feel that he was a credible buyer? 19 then advance payments were -- we were informed at the
20 A. I believe that he was -- again, this is -- 20 task force level. That would be myself, Angela Shell
21 I don't want to speculate, but my recollection was, 21 and some of the Cal OES staff. And if it would --
22 compared to a number of other vendors, he checked out 22 and then we would see whether or not that was
Page 43 Page 45
1 better because he was American, living and residing 1 something we could -- we would feel comfortable
2 in California. He had all of his -- whatever, their 2 doing.
3 articles or incorporation or such, to our knowledge. 3 If it was a large number, we would raise
4 He didn't have any dings, to our knowledge. So that 4 that up the flagpole. We formalized that procedure
5 checked out, compared to other vendors that were 5 in April. So we came up with an advance payment
6 selling things that had nothing to do with medical 6 process in April. But prior to then, it was more
7 supplies or claiming that they had contacts in China 7 informal.
8 or were foreign firms dealing with. 8 Q. And when you say -- thinking about the
9 Q. Did -- and again, I'm only asking for your 9 March 2020 time frame, when you say that you would
10 recollection and I appreciate that you don't want to 10 run it up the flagpole, who would that be run up to?
11 speculate. As you recall, did Blue Flame Medical 11 A. We would discuss this with the Cal OES
12 have prior experience in the medical supplies 12 director and also bring it to the attention of the
13 industry? 13 secretary of GovOps.
14 A. I don't know. 14 Q. And who was the secretary of GovOps at
15 Q. And did the department eventually decide 15 that time?
16 to place an order with Blue Flame Medical? 16 A. Yolanda Richardson.
17 A. Our task force did, yes. 17 Q. And do you recall what day the department
18 Q. And who made that decision? 18 decided -- or not the department -- but this process
19 A. It was a collective decision within the 19 decided to place an order with Blue Flame Medical?
20 administration. 20 A. I don't recall the specific date.
21 Q. Who within administration had the 21 (Defendants' Exhibit No. 43
22 authority to sign off on that sort of decision? Was 22 referenced.)
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 12 of 21
Page 14(78 - 81)
PageID# 1545
Page 78 Page 80
1 A. I don't recall. 1
A. I believe he sent something like that to
2 Q. And what did Mr. Thomas tell you about 2 me via text.
3 this manufacturer, Henry's, experience? 3 Q. And based on your discussion with
4 A. I don't recall the specifics, but that he 4 Mr. Thomas, did you expect the delivery schedule that
5 had the masks available. And so he mentioned, even 5 he sent you to reflect information that Blue Flame
6 after the 100 million order, additional masks we 6 Medical had received from its suppliers?
7 could order that were at a higher quality and that 7 A. I reserved that to the staff to do that
8 were 3M masks, I believe. 3M gold. 8 review. My goal was to get something that would be
9 Q. Sorry? 9 passed on to staff.
10 A. Some 3M gold. I forgot, but there was 10 Q. Did Mr. Thomas tell you that California
11 some like -- and again, I wasn't a specialist in PPE 11 would have the right to cancel a shipment if it
12 at the time, but I was -- I recall him saying 12 didn't arrive on time?
13 something about 3M gold. That's about all I recall. 13 A. I don't recall the specifics, but there
14 Q. But he indicated that above and beyond the 14 were certain assurances I recall that he made to give
15 100 million masks that he could provide to California 15 me a greater sense of comfort.
16 quickly, that they may be able to provide additional 16 Q. Do you recall what any of those assurances
17 masks at a highly caliber shortly thereafter? 17 were?
18 MR. KETCHAM-COLWILL: Objection to form. 18 A. Well, one was that he would have a jet
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, what I recall. 19 flown and bring the supplies immediately. I think
20 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 20 there was some kind of quality control. If we didn't
21 Q. Did you and Mr. Thomas discuss the 21 like the product, we could stop. But again, I'm on
22 schedule for delivery? 22 the verge of speculation now because it's been a year
Page 79 Page 81
1 A. Yes. 1 and I don't want to say anything that is inaccurate.
2 Q. What did Mr. Thomas tell you? 2 Q. Did you expect the schedule that
3 A. So I wanted to get a sense of whether he 3 Mr. Thomas provided you to accurately reflect Blue
4 was going to supply this quickly. So I asked him for 4 Flame Medical's delivery capabilities?
5 a delivery schedule that he would send us. So I 5 A. I asked for a schedule and he provided
6 believe he provided that and he also indicated that 6 one. The assumption was that that schedule is what
7 he could, as a measure of goodwill and good faith, 7 he would uphold and that the staff would review it
8 bring a private jet and bring over some number of 8 and that would inform the purchase order.
9 masks immediately. 9 Q. Did Mr. Thomas tell you that he would
10 Q. Did you discuss what the outside date 10 provide references to his credibility?
11 would be by which time California could expect to 11 A. I don't recall.
12 have all 100 million masks? 12 Q. And you mentioned earlier that Mr. Thomas
13 A. I don't recall, but I do recall that our 13 had referred to the California Nurses Association; is
14 conversation or the discussions that staff had had 14 that right?
15 was we were talking about days, maybe a week where we 15 A. Yes.
16 would get the order, not months. 16 Q. What did Mr. Thomas say about the CNA?
17 Q. And you said that Mr. -- you asked 17 A. My recollection is that either he sold or
18 Mr. Thomas for a delivery schedule? 18 was in the process of selling to the CNA.
19 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did Mr. Thomas tell you that Controller
20 Q. Did I hear that correctly? 20 Yee had put him in touch with CNA only the day before
21 Do you recall if you ever received a 21 on March 24th?
22 delivery schedule. 22 A. No.
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 13 of 22
Page 14(82 - 85)
PageID# 1546
Page 82 Page 84
1 Q. Was there anything else that you recall 1 Q. Had Mr. Thomas or anyone else associated
2 discussing with Mr. Thomas on this phone call? 2 with Blue Flame Medical told you that Blue Flame
3 A. No. You're going to have to give me some 3 Medical was not registered to conduct business in the
4 help there. 4 state of California?
5 Q. I'm genuinely just asking if there's 5 A. No.
6 anything else that comes to mind that we haven't 6 Q. Had Mr. Thomas or anyone else associated
7 already touched upon. 7 with Blue Flame Medical told you that Blue Flame
8 A. Not that I recall. 8 Medical had no office in the state of California?
9 Q. Following this conversation, what was your 9 MR. KETCHAM-COLWILL: Objection.
10 impression of Blue Flame Medical? 10 Misstates testimony.
11 A. My impression, given the circumstances we 11 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
12 had where there was expedited vetting, was that, one, 12 Q. Mr. Kim, you can answer.
13 he was an American living in California operating 13 A. No.
14 with a supplier who could manufacture directly as 14 Q. If Mr. Thomas had told you this
15 opposed to some middleman and that we could get the 15 information about Blue Flame Medical, would this have
16 product immediately, and if we didn't like the 16 been important information to you?
17 product, we could either cancel or reduce the order, 17 MS. PORTER: Objection. Calls for
18 and that any advance payment would be conducted 18 speculation.
19 through an American bank. 19 MR. KETCHAM-COLWILL: Objection. Calls
20 Q. And at this point in time, on the evening 20 for speculation.
21 of March 25th, had Mr. Thomas or anyone else 21 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
22 associated with Blue Flame Medical told you that Blue 22 Q. Mr. Kim, you can answer.
Page 83 Page 85
1 Flame Medical had only existed for two days? 1 A. Yes.
2 A. No. 2 Q. Would this information have impacted your
3 Q. Had Mr. Thomas or anyone else associated 3 impression of Blue Flame Medical as a vendor?
4 with Blue Flame Medical told you that Blue Flame 4 MS. PORTER: Objection. Calls for
5 Medical had only opened its bank account that 5 speculation.
6 morning? 6 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
7 A. No. 7 Q. Mr. Kim, you can answer.
8 Q. Had Mr. Thomas or anyone else associated 8 A. It would have raised alarm bells.
9 with Blue Flame told you that Blue Flame had not yet 9 Q. Did you speak with Controller Yee again
10 delivered any N95 masks to any customers? 10 after this conversation with Mr. Thomas?
11 A. No. 11 A. About what?
12 Q. Had Mr. Thomas or anyone else associated 12 Q. About anything on the evening of March
13 with Blue Flame told you that Mr. Thomas had no 13 25th.
14 experience in medical supply logistics? 14 A. Not that I recall.
15 A. No. 15 Q. If you had known about -- had you had
16 MR. KETCHAM-COLWILL: Object to form. 16 known this additional information about Blue Flame
17 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 17 Medical that you said might have set off alarm bells,
18 Q. Had Mr. Thomas or anyone else associated 18 would you have told this to Controller Yee?
19 with Blue Flame Medical told you that Mr. Thomas' 19 MS. PORTER: Objection. Calls for
20 partner, Mike Gula, had no experience in medical 20 speculation.
21 supply logistics? 21 THE WITNESS: Controller Yee is not within
22 A. No. 22 my chain of command, so she would not have any
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
Daniel Kim 3/29/2021
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 130-11 Filed 05/06/21 Page 14 of 23
Page 14(86 - 89)
PageID# 1547
Page 86 Page 88
1 bearing on our decision to purchase or procure 1 two documents reflect the same text and aren't
2 through Blue Flame. 2 missing anything.
3 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 3 A.
Okay. Just trying to -- I have to scroll
4 Q. Understood. I'm asking about Controller 4 back and forth.
Give me a second.
5 Yee because Mr. Chivaro, representing the SCO's 5 Q. Sure.
6 office, testified that you spoke with Controller Yee 6 A. Yes.
7 twice on the evening of March 25th, once before and 7 Q. The content appears to be the same?
8 once after you spoke with Mr. Thomas. 8 A. Yes.
9 Understanding that she's not part of your 9 Q. Great. Looking at the first text message
10 department, I was simply trying to understand what 10 in the chain, it looks like a text message from John
11 you may or may not have conveyed to her if you had 11 Thomas to you where he says, "My team and I are
12 additional information at the time. 12 grinding out that shipping and amount grid for you
13 A. I don't recall. 13 tonight."
14 Q. I'm going to put two additional documents 14 Does that refer to the delivery schedules
15 into the chat function. So this is BFM_CA_DGS 5363, 15 that you asked Mr. Thomas for on your phone call?
16 which I believe will be Defendants' Exhibit 112 and 16 A. I believe so, yes.
17 BFM 000200134, which will be Defendants' Exhibit 113. 17 Q. And he says, "I will text to you and
18 (Defendants' Exhibit Nos. 112 and 113 18 Michael ASAP." Does that refer to Michael Wong?
19 were identified for the record.) 19 A. Yes.
20 BY MS. FORSTEIN: 20 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 9 was
21 Q. And if you could open both of these 21 referenced.)
22 documents. 22 BY MS. FORSTEIN:
Page 87 Page 89
1 A. Yes. 1 Q. And I'm going to put one more document
2 Q. So the first one, Defendants' Exhibit 112, 2 into the chat function. This document has previously
3 it looks like a series of screenshots of text 3 been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
4 messages. 4 Mr. Kim, if you could take a look at this
5 A. Yes. 5 and, once you've had a chance to review, if you could
6 Q. And Defendants' Exhibit 113 is the same 6 let me know if you recognize the document.
7 text messages reproduced in a unified text format. 7 A. Okay.
8 So if you could take a look at both documents. And 8 Q. Do you recognize these communications?
9 my initial question, do you recognize these 9 A. Yes.
10 documents? 10 Q. And what are they?
11 A. Yes. 11 A. They're text messages from John Thomas to
12 Q. What are they? 12 me.
13 A. The text messages, not the other document 13 MS. PORTER: Ms. Forstein, excuse me, just
14 that I think someone pulled together. I recognize 14 real quick, I should lodge this objection. I notice
15 the DGS 5363, but not the 200134. 15 on this document in the lower left-hand corner, it's
16 Q. Great. And what is DGS 5363? 16 marked confidential. Previously, the parties had
17 A. Those are text messages from John Thomas 17 asked the state employees to execute a protective
18 to me. 18 order, but the state employees have not -- the
19 Q. And if you can just take a minute and 19 California state employees have not executed.
20 compare the two documents that I put up. The unified 20 So for the record, I mention that this
21 text chain was produced by Blue Flame Medical. If 21 confidentiality designation has no bearing on this
22 you could just take a moment and confirm that these 22 witness.
www.trustpoint.one 800.FOR.DEPO
www.aldersonreporting.com (800.367.3376)
File and source
- File
- 130-att11.pdf
- Size
- 74,781 bytes
- SHA-256
- 2f97fef418c51608208a799e0c3b6443267faf9f03e7e96f88a25c3894c8a522
- Our copy
- 130-att11.pdf
- Original
- No public link identified.