Promoting Opportunity: The Need For Targeted Federal Business Programs To Address Ongoing Racial Discrimination
Summary
The printed record of S. Hrg. 118-385, a field hearing of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship on targeted federal business programs and ongoing racial discrimination, on May 6, 2024 at Bowie State University in Bowie, MD, with Senator Ben Cardin presiding. Senator Chris Van Hollen and Representative Ivey also attended, and the university's president and the mayor of Bowie gave welcoming remarks. Cardin thanks the small business owners testifying about discrimination and says the hearing is meant to show the importance of targeted Federal programs. The witnesses were the heads of M. Luis Construction, Lawson Consulting and JLAN Solutions, a Maryland MBDA Business Center consultant, a vice president of MGT Consulting and a senior advisor at The New School. The record adds statements from Senator Joni Ernst and outside organizations.
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[Senate Hearing 118-385]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-385
PROMOTING OPPORTUNITY: THE NEED FOR
TARGETED FEDERAL BUSINESS PROGRAMS
TO ADDRESS ONGOING RACIAL DISCRIMINATION
FIELD HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 6, 2024
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and
Entrepreneurship
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-458 WASHINGTON : 2024
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
----------
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana
MAZIE HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada TED BUDD, North Carolina
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
Sean Moore, Democratic Staff Director
Meredith West, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
MAY 6, 2024
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Benjamin L. Cardin, U.S. Senator from Maryland................... 1
Chris Van Hollen, U.S. Senator from Maryland..................... 6
WITNESSES
Ms. Natalia Luis, Co-Owner, M. Luis Construction and M. Luis
Products, Silver Spring, MD.................................... 11
Prepared Statement........................................... 13
Ms. Tonya Lawson, President and CEO, Lawson Consulting, Fort
Washington, MD................................................. 19
Prepared Statement........................................... 21
Ms. Ronnette R. Meyers, President and CEO, JLAN Solutions,
Washington, DC................................................. 30
Prepared Statement........................................... 32
Mr. Gary Moore, Senior Business Consultant, Maryland MBDA
Business Center, Baltimore, MD................................. 35
Prepared Statement........................................... 37
Mr. Andres Bernal, Vice President, MGT Consulting, Cincinnati, OH 40
Prepared Statement........................................... 42
Mr. Gary Cunningham, Senior Advisor, The New School, New York, NY 43
Prepared Statement........................................... 45
ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
Joni Ernst, U.S. Senator from Iowa
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 70
Asian Americans Advancing Justice (AAJC)
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 73
Association for Enterprise Opportunity (AEO)
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 92
Capital Region Minority Supplier Development Council (CRMSDC)
Statement dated May 8, 2024.................................. 96
Doles, Brenda, Healthcare Resolution Services, Inc.
Statement dated May 20, 2024................................. 102
Legal Defense Fund
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 104
Minority Business Enterprise Legal Defense and Education Fund,
Inc. (MBELDEF)
Statement dated May 19, 2024................................. 120
Minority Business Enterprise Legal Defense and Education Fund
(MBELDEF)
Joint Statement With Eight Other Organizations............... 130
Missions Lenders Working Group
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 135
National Association of Women Business Owners (NAWBO)
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 137
National LGBT Chamber of Commerce (nglcc)
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 141
National Minority Supplier Development Council (NMSDC)
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 143
Small Business Majority
Statements dated May 6, 2024................................. 145
Trans Pacific Communications
Statements dated May 6, 2024................................. 152
U.S. Black Chambers, INC
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 155
White, LaTanya, Concept Creative Group, LLC
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 159
Women Impacting Public Policy (WIPP)
Statement dated May 6, 2024.................................. 166
PROMOTING OPPORTUNITY: THE NEED FOR
TARGETED FEDERAL BUSINESS PROGRAMS
TO ADDRESS ONGOING RACIAL
DISCRIMINATION
----------
MONDAY, MAY 6, 2024
United States Senate,
Committee on Small Business
and Entrepreneurship,
Bowie, MD.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m., at
Bowie State University, Student Center Ballroom, Student
Center, 14000 Jericho Park Road, Bowie, MD, Hon. Ben Cardin
presiding.
Present: Senators Cardin [presiding] and Van Hollen.
Also Present: Representative Ivey.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARDIN
Senator Cardin. Good morning, everyone. The Small Business
and Entrepreneurship Committee will come to order. I first want
to thank Senator Shaheen and Senator Ernst, the Chair and
Ranking Member of the Small Business Committee for allowing us
to hold this field hearing. Having previously chaired the Small
Business Committee, it is a great honor for me to chair this
event with Senator Van Hollen and Congressman Ivey and a
distinguished group of witnesses.
It could not be at a better location to hold this hearing,
``Promoting Opportunity: The Need for Targeted Federal Business
Programs to Address Ongoing Racial Discrimination,'' than here
at Bowie State University. To me this is the perfect place.
Under the leadership of Dr. Breaux, this campus has been a real
magnet for opportunities for small businesses. We recently
opened the Women's Business Center here at Bowie State
University. This the oldest of our Historically Black Colleges
and Universities. We have the Business Innovation Center
located here. This has been a real active campus for
opportunities for underserved communities and small business
opportunities.
Before we get started I want to recognize Dr. Breaux for
her extraordinary leadership. She is one of our major players
in Washington. We bring her there frequently. She has testified
before our committees, and she is really a superstar, and we
have her right here at Bowie State University.
Dr. Breaux. [Applause.]
STATEMENT OF AMINTA BREAUX, Ph.D., PRESIDENT, BOWIE STATE
UNIVERSITY, BOWIE, MARYLAND
Dr. Breaux. Thank you, Senator, and good morning, everyone.
[Chorus of good mornings.]
Alright, we have coffee on the outside there.
Good morning and welcome to Bowie State University. I am
indeed Aminta Breaux, the very proud 10th President at BSU, and
I am so honored and pleased to welcome you here today and to
serve as the host site for the U.S. Senate Committee on Small
Business and Entrepreneurship field hearing, and to welcome
you, Senator Van Hollen, Representative Glenn Ivey, and, of
course, welcoming back our esteemed Chair for today, Senator
Ben Cardin. You are no stranger, as none of you are, to Bowie
State University, and we truly appreciate all of your support
of higher education and especially for our HBCUs.
I just want to say a few words before I let you go on with
the program for today. We are preparing for commencement that
will take place on May 24th, and I want to thank you all for
your support throughout this year. For over 150 years, our
HBCUs have opened our doors to all in our society and provided
a pathway to upward social economic mobility for our graduates
and for their families.
And as many of you know, while HBCUs comprise just 3
percent of the higher ed institutions in the nation, we produce
20 percent of African American baccalaureate degrees and 25
percent of African American graduates in STEM. Additionally,
our HBCUs have been shown to produce about $14.8 billion
annually in economic benefit to our country, and HBCUs generate
about 134,000 jobs for local and regional economies, according
to one study.
And then Bowie State University, as I hope you all know by
now, we are growing, we are thriving, as we are raising to
excellence, the name of our strategic plan. But it is also the
mantra by which we live each and every day to serve our
students.
As a result of the extraordinary efforts of our faculty,
staff, and student leaders we have recognized great
achievements, including a total growth in enrollment by 2.1
percent and a 25 percent increase in graduate enrollment in 1
year. At the opening of this academic year, in the fall of
2023, we welcomed 6,400 students from 30 states, 37 foreign
countries, and a total number of applications reached just
about 13,000 for just 1,000 seats. Does that get a round of
applause? [Applause.]
U.S. News and World Report ranks Bowie State University as
number 16 among the more than 100 HBCUs in the nation. It also
recognizes BSU as among the most innovative universities and as
a top performer for social mobility. And we are listed among
the nation's top graduate school programs in nursing, computer
science, education, and public affairs.
And in addition to creating a pipeline of talent for the
workforce, as you just heard from the Senate, we here at Bowie
State University champion the spirit of entrepreneurship,
recognizing it as a driving force for economic growth, for
strengthening our community. It is our vision here at BSU to
ensure that every student graduates with an entrepreneurial
mindset, and some of the ways we help to inspire that
entrepreneurial mindset include integration entrepreneurship
into the curriculums across the disciplines and offering
entrepreneurship as a topic to our freshman year students as
they come in to the university.
We offer a concentration in entrepreneurship and small
business management in the College of Business, and we provide
two post-baccalaureate supplemental programs with stackable
credentials. One is an entrepreneurship 12-credit micro-
credential and an 18-credit hour entrepreneurship certificate.
And as you came into the campus, I hope you noticed the
Entrepreneurship Living Learning Community that bridges the
learning environments from the classroom to the residence
halls, inspiring students to understand that learning happens
everywhere. That Entrepreneurship Living Learning Community is
home to over 500 students, and on any given day they can get up
and see ideation to creation in their products and businesses.
But most importantly again, we are helping to inspire them to
have an entrepreneurial mindset to navigate this rapidly
changing world.
I want to again thank Senator Cardin and Senator Van Hollen
for your support when you were here not too long ago for the
congressionally directed spending that brought out that center
of excellence, and allowing for Bowie State University to lead
the way for other HBCUs to develop 8 (a) government contracting
programs. So can you please give the Senators a round of
applause. [Applause.]
There are many more items to highlight, and the Senators
know this president can go on for a while. But I know you have
an agenda. Let me welcome the Committee, welcome all of our
elected officials. I would like to acknowledge the mayor of
Bowie, Mayor Tim Adams. Would you give him a round of applause
please. [Applause.]
And finally, I invite you to see what I see here every day
as we are racing to excellence, the great excellence among our
faculty, staff, and students here at BSU. I know the weather is
not as we had hoped, but nonetheless I hope you get out across
the campus. It is a 300-acre campus here in Prince George's
County, and a gem in Prince George's County.
Once again, welcome. I am Aminta Breaux, the very proud
10th president of Bowie State University, the oldest HBCU in
the state of Maryland. Thank you. [Applause.]
Senator Cardin. I think you all can see why we are so proud
of Dr. Breaux, and thank you for the arrangement for this field
hearing. It could not be at a better location, and we thank you
for your hospitality.
You acknowledged the mayor of Bowie, Mayor Tim Adams. Tim,
would you like to say a word? We want to be welcomed by you, so
it would be nice.
STATEMENT OF TIM ADAMS, MAYOR OF BOWIE, MARYLAND
Mr. Adams. Thank you. I would simply like to quickly say
thank you to Dr. Breaux. It is always a pleasure to be here on
the campus of Bowie State University, as she said a number of
times, the oldest HBCU in the state of Maryland. I would like
to thank Congressman Ivey, Senator Van Hollen, and Senator
Cardin, who is the Chair today.
I would like to just say that I want to say thank you,
because as a resident of the state of Maryland I have closely
followed your work and have been consistently impressed by your
commitment to public service. You know, your tireless efforts
in advocating for our community, needs, and championing
important causes such as small businesses have not gone
unnoticed. Your leadership and unwavering dedication to the
betterment of our society are truly inspiring.
I would like to particularly express my appreciation for
your work on truly supporting small businesses and advocating
for them. Your commitment to small businesses has made a
significant difference in the lives of countless individuals,
including myself. Your ability to effectively communicate with
constituents and listen to their concerns is commendable. It is
clear that you genuinely care about the issues that affect our
community, and your responsiveness and accessibility as a
public servant have been truly remarkable.
Once again, I want to extend my deepest gratitude for your
service and for representing our community with honor and
integrity. Your commitment to public service sets a shining
example for the future leaders and inspires me to be more
engaged in our democracy.
Thank you, Senator Cardin, for your outstanding service to
our community. I wish you continued success in all your future
endeavors.
Senator Cardin. Thank you. I appreciate it. [Applause.]
I also wanted to acknowledge the real workhorses that are
here, our staff that really put together this hearing and
worked with us on these small business issues, Sean Moore, who
is the Staff Director of the Small Business and
Entrepreneurship Committee; Shivani Pampati, who is my key
person for this particular hearing; and Steve Chang. We thank
the entire staff of the Small Business Committee for what they
have done.
We are also joined by Steve Umberger and Larry Webb, who
are the two directors of the offices, the regions that include
the state of Maryland, so we thank you both for being with us
today. And I want to acknowledge Terrance is here, representing
Congressman Hoyer, who has been a great champion of small
businesses and of course represents parts of Prince George's
County, as well.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARDIN
Senator Cardin. This is the right venue for this hearing. I
want to take a moment to recognize that the topic we are
discussing today is not an easy one. Racial discrimination has
plagued our country since its inception. Let me just tell my
colleagues, last night I saw the world premier of ``Ain't No
Back to a Merry-Go-Round,'' which is the story of the
integration of Glen Echo Park, which is, of course, in our
community. I recommend the movie to all of you. It was a real
testament to the strength of a community to fight for
integration in 1960. Those struggles are still continuing
today. So I think it just motivated me more for why we are
holding this hearing today.
Racial discrimination has plagued our nation since its
inception, and unfortunately we have not been able to truly
reckon with our past in a way that completely breaks down the
historical barriers that racial discrimination has created.
I want to particularly thank our small business owners with
us today. This is not an easy task, and I applaud your bravery
and commitment to discussing the facts that racial
discrimination exists today, and that it directly impacts your
ability to operate and grow you business. Not all business
owners were as brave as you. Fear in discussing this topic is
unfortunately a common sentiment and why this hearing is so
critical.
So thank you again to the business owners here today for
your willingness to tell the story in an attempt to protect and
highlight the importance of targeted Federal programs, like the
Small Business Administration's 8(a) program and the Minority
Business Development Agency.
Attacks on programs across the Federal Government that
level the playing field for minority communities are affecting
every facet of our society, from education to small business.
In the small business space we are witnessing a widespread and
coordinated legal attack against public and private programs
that aim to uplift minority small business owners and remedy
disparities caused by racial discrimination. These programs
provide tailored support for communities of color, to address
the impact of racial discrimination that they continue to face.
To say that I am disappointed by these attacks and court
decisions would be a grave understatement.
I am trained by Parren James Mitchell, the first Black
congressman we had in the state of Maryland. He was the former
Chair of the Small Business Committee and used that opportunity
to expand opportunity, providing the first set-asides for
minority small businesses. He was my congressman when he was
first elected to Congress, and he helped me a great deal when I
was elected to Congress in 1987.
The Small Business Administration's 8(a) business
development program was codified in the 1970s. It is a 9-year
program that provides socially and economically disadvantaged
small businesses with training, technical assistance, and
contracting opportunities. This program has helped contractors
from minority and underserved communities grow successful and
sustainable businesses. Given the most recent lawsuits against
this program, 8(a) applicants must now submit to the Federal
Government explicit instances of intentional discrimination on
the basis of their race in order to qualify for the program.
This is not only invasive, but incredibly time consuming and
costly for these business owners.
As our witnesses will attest, countless studies and other
research have proven time and time again that disparities exist
in minority business formations and ownership. Research has
also demonstrated that systemic discrimination is the primary
factor behind those disparities. Small business owners should
be focusing on building their businesses and getting the
support they need. Instead, minority applicants to the 8(a)
program must once again do something that is all too familiar
to them--prove themselves above and beyond what is normally
expected.
Additional obstacles like this are stark reminders of the
historical barrier we have rightly done away with, such as poll
taxes and literacy tests, redlining, and so much more. These
policies were once considered by some to be reasonable
standards, but have profound intentional negative impacts on
Black and brown communities.
As Congress, we must do more. We must ensure the 8(a)
program is not further stripped down through these legal
attacks and work to not only build it back to what it was once,
but also to improve it.
Most recently, the Minority Business Development Agency's
business centers were challenged in the court. After more than
50 years in existence through executive order, I was proud to
codify, on a bipartisan basis, the only agency explicitly
dedicated to minorities in the Federal Government. My partner
in this effort was Congressman Mfume in the House. Opponents of
the agency argued that they agency's use of race in defining
socially and economically disadvantaged was somehow unfair or
unjustified. To put an injunction on business services that
uniquely tailor to the needs of minority individuals is
unconscionable.
These legal attacks threaten to reverse decades of
progressive policies created to help address the injustice and
discrimination that persists in our society and within the
Federal Government. Without targeted Federal programs, we leave
a large swath of our society behind, only strengthening
historical barriers. It is important that we, as a country,
recognize that when we exclude parts of our society we are
actively undermining the social, political, and economic
potential of our country.
I am honored to be holding this hearing at Maryland's
oldest HBCU, focusing on how targeted Federal programs address
the impact of racial discrimination and promote opportunity for
minority communities.
We have an incredible group of witnesses that will join us
in this discussion, but first, if I might, I am going to allow
my two colleagues to make opening comments. I am pleased that
both are joining me. For those, I am sure you know, Senator Van
Hollen is not only a champion for small businesses, he chairs
the Appropriations Subcommittee of the Small Business
Administration. I think that is why we have our two regional
directors that are here today. Senator Van Hollen is here to
challenge their budget.
Senator Van Hollen.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR VAN HOLLEN
Senator Van Hollen. Well thank you, Senator Cardin, and I
want to start where Senator Cardin did, by thanking you, Dr.
Breaux, and Bowie State University not only for hosting us
today but for your amazing leadership. So it is great to be
back on the campus of Maryland's oldest HBCU, and again, thank
you.
Mayor Adams, thank you, as always, for the warm welcome to
Bowie, and it was great that Senator Cardin and I were able to
join you recently to provide some additional Federal funding to
support the city of Bowie.
It is wonderful to be here with my colleague from the
House, Glenn Ivey. We work very closely together on all issues,
including small business issues and minority-owned business
issues.
And I do just want to give a special word of thanks to my
friend and colleague, Maryland's senior Senator, Ben Cardin. I
think all of you know that he has announced that he is not
running for reelection. But as you can see what is happening
today he has not slowed down one bit. And throughout his entire
career in public service, he has always been a champion for
small businesses and minority-owned businesses. That has been
his record, that is who he is, and that is why today's hearing
is so important. He has served for many years as the Chair of
the Small Business Administration, the authorizing committee
for small businesses, and he, of course, continues to serve on
that committee. And like all of you here, we recognize that
there is an ongoing threat and attack on the basic laws that
provide for minority small businesses in response to historic
discrimination. So thank you to Ben Cardin for being here.
[Applause.]
Let me also join Senator Cardin in welcoming all of our
witnesses today. Thank you for coming here to provide your
insights on the unique challenges you have faced as small
business owners. Thank you for coming here to share your
expertise on the significance of programs like the Minority
Business Development Agency and the SBA 8(a) program, and how
they can help us, and continue to help us create a fairer,
competitive environment for small business owners and for our
economy.
Minority business owners continue to face long-standing
systemic barriers in both the private and public sectors, even
after decades of building programs to try to remedy this. Lack
of access to capital, networks, and contracts remain ongoing
barriers to success for many of these businesses. Yet small
business owners, like all of you who have joined us today and
so many across Maryland and the United States have pushed
forward with resilience, fighting to establish yourselves in a
whole variety of business sectors, and done so successfully.
Entrepreneurs like yourselves have been swimming upstream to
contribute to this economy through the work you do.
For centuries, governments at various levels have enacted
policies and practices that systematically disadvantage
minority entrepreneurs, from discriminatory landing programs.
Like the redlining Senator Cardin mentioned, to zoning laws
that stifled the growth of minority-owned businesses, the hand
of government has often been used to reinforce existing
inequalities rather than to dismantle them.
This discrimination has had a profound impact on the
ability of minority small business owners to thrive. Denied
access to capital, resources, and opportunities, many talented
entrepreneurs have been unable to realize their full potential.
They have faced higher hurdles in obtaining loans, accessing
contracts, and navigating regulatory environments, all because
of the color of their skin or their ethnic background.
Amidst this landscape there have been beacons of hope,
programs like the Small Business Administration's 8 (a)
program, and the Minority Business Development Agency. Thank
you, Senator Cardin, for codifying that once and for all in
law. Those programs, among others, have helped break down the
barriers that we know exist. By providing access to capital,
technical assistance, and contracting opportunities, these
initiatives have empowered minority entrepreneurs to overcome
the obstacles stacked against them.
The 8 (a) program, in particular, has been instrumental in
leveling the playing field for minority-owned businesses. By
offering set-aside contracts and subcontracting opportunities
to small businesses owned by individuals who historically have
been socially and economically disadvantaged, the program has
opened doors of opportunity that were previously shut. It has
helped minority entrepreneurs gain a foothold in the industries
where they were once excluded, paving the way for greater
economic inclusion and prosperity.
Similarly, the Minority Business Development Agency has
been a life line for minority entrepreneurs seeking guidance
and support. Through its network of business centers across the
country, the agency provides technical assistance, access to
markets, and strategic advice to help minority-owned businesses
grow and thrive.
I look forward to continuing to work with Senator Cardin in
this capacity on the Small Business Committee. As Senator
Cardin mentioned, I chair the Subcommittee of the
Appropriations Committee that funds the Small Business
Administration, as well as the CDFI programs. They are such an
important source of capital. I look forward to working with all
of you as we confront the attacks that have been made and that
are ongoing to these very, very important programs.
We have come a long way, but this is not the time to
dismantle the programs that have been successful at breaking
down those barriers and are needed today because those barriers
remain in place.
Thank you all for being part of this discussion. Senator
Cardin, again, thank you for convening this hearing.
Senator Cardin. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
Our expert in the House of Representatives on the impacts
of the court cases on the 8 (a) program and the Minority
Business Development Agency is Glenn Ivey. He called me shortly
after the court decision as to what we could do to try to
remedy the situation. We are very fortunate to have his
expertise in the House of Representatives as we look for ways
to deal with the realities and impact of these court decisions,
to make sure that we keep the tools available to help minority
small businesses.
Congressman Ivey.
STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN IVEY
Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that. And I do
want to join in the chorus of, you know, I guess bemoaning a
bit your forthcoming retirement.
Senator Cardin. I am still here, guys. [Laughter.]
I know you all have seen a lot of ads on television, so you
know there is an open spot.
Mr. Ivey. You know, when Michael Jordan retired they did a
tour, essentially, so he would go play in different cities. I
remember in one city they got him a rocking chair. So if you
get a rocking chair, don't be surprised. We do want to make
sure you are fully recognized for the outstanding work that you
have done.
And Chris, it is great working with you on these issues,
and so many others. You know, it is fantastic to come in. I
have only been in Congress for a year and change, but to join a
team with this caliber of leadership and skill is a real honor.
And I do want to thank Bowie State. You know, you did a
great job. The leadership you provided--I don't think you have
been here so long, but you have really made a great impact
already, and making sure that the university continues to move
in the right direction.
And to Tim Adams, yes, he is the mayor of Bowie, but he is
also a successful entrepreneur, in fact, maybe one of the most
successful minority entrepreneurs in the country. And when
Jolene Ivey, the chair of the County Council, and I did a joint
hearing on this, Tim was one of the great witnesses on that
proceeding that did a great job. So I am looking forward to
hearing from the panel.
I just want to say a couple of things quickly, though.
First of all, I see so many friends in the audience from the
fights over the years. I first got into this in 1987, when I
first came to the Hill. I think you had just gotten there. In
fact, Jolene was working for you in 1987. And on the Small
Business Committee, Congressman Conyers was on it. Congressman
Mfume was on it, as well.
And so I remember that year. President Reagan had decided
to attack the 8 (a) program, and he essentially tried to
dismantle it. Wedtech was the case that they used as sort of
the point of attack. And at the same time, they were trying to
block effort, Congressman Mfume. Congressman Parren Mitchell
had just left the Small Business Committee, but his leadership
continued. In fact, I see the individuals from Minority
Business Enterprise Legal Defense Fund, which he founded when
he left. Talk about not missing a beat. He left Congress and he
started MBELDEF like almost immediately.
But we fought those fights then, and we were relatively
successful. We were able to preserve the 8 (a) program. In
fact, there were some changes that I thought, some were
beneficial, some were maybe less so. But it stayed, and it
continued to move forward roughly in the form that it had.
And the MBDA bill, as Senator Cardin mentioned, well, that
took a little while to get done, but it did get done. What was
that, 2 years ago, I think it was, something like that? Huge
achievement over a long term to make that happen. So a lot of
that push came from Maryland. We have been the epicenter for
these policy fights, in some respects, and I think that is
going to continue, as you can see today.
But it is particularly heartbreaking then to look back on
that history, and as soon as I get to Congress, and I hope it
is not a causation or a correlation thing, but then we get the
courts attacking these programs that we spent all these years
building up and using. And it is especially problematic because
it is not like these programs, like people were really getting
over before they started attacking them. Yes, they were
helpful. Yes, they were beneficial. But there were still
challenges in the programs as they existed before these court
cases, so we know we have got a long way to go, because we had
a long way to go before these court cases even came down.
And then when Ultima came down last summer, I was
heartbroken, really, because it really went to the heart of a
lot of the things we had been fighting so hard to get done. And
it looked like, unfortunately, a sign of things to come because
they are sort of gathering forces on the other side to continue
these court attacks, and they are not stopping. We just had
another one come through just the other day that is going to be
kind of pushing this envelope along the wrong direction, in my
view.
So, you know, I think it is critical for us to do a couple
of things, and one is I am looking forward to hearing from you
all. I know you can't learn when you are talking, so I am going
to stop talking in a second.
But I do want to lay this out real quick, though, because I
think it is important for us to think about recognizing the
challenges that are there with respect to these court cases,
recognizing some of the challenges that were growing for other
reasons. For example, the concentration and consolidation of a
lot of these contracts have made it harder for small
businesses, in general, to get a chance to even compete for
these, much less small minority businesses to compete, and have
all the challenges that Ben and Chris laid out with respect to
capital and credit and the like. So I think we have to figure
out what to do with that.
Also, when we come back to this at the end, I think the
question of where do we go from here I think is a big one. I
think we have got some very good arguments we can make as far
as why these programs should stay in place and why they need to
continue to expand. On, in particular, from my perspective, the
lessons we should have learned from the supply chain issues
coming out of COVID, which is to the extent we can have
businesses here in the United States that are doing these
services as opposed to overseas, that is a great thing. If we
can have minority businesses who are doing them here in the
United States, and utilizing people who are not so much
involved in the economic growth of the United States, that is
even better piece.
And I think it is also critical for us to make sure that we
expand the opportunities available so the American Dream, as we
have known it--and we saw it flourishing before it got sort of
cut off at the knees when some of these court cases came in.
So I do want to make sure that before we end the day we
talk a little bit about things that we can do. The
Congressional Black Caucus, you know, I appreciate Ben
suggesting my role in that with respect to figuring out how to
approach the White House, what to do with the courts, what to
do with the Department of Justice, things that we can do to
take on these challenges. And I think it is critical for us to
make sure we do those things now rather than later.
Because the Biden administration has trillions of dollars
coming out from a Federal contracting standpoint. This is the
worst possible moment for us to get cut off from the ability to
compete fully for those government contracts. It is
generational wealth coming out. Some of these contracts, like
some of the bridges and tunnels that you all have been hearing
about on the news, those can turn businesses around and turn
them into not only just small minority businesses but
potentially primes and general contracts down the road.
So it is critical for us to fight this fight, keep it
moving in the right direction, and I appreciate the leadership
that you all have provided in this. And with that I will yield
back, and I look forward to your testimony, and thank all of
you all for coming today.
Senator Cardin. Congressman Ivey, thank you for those
comments. Your point is just so well taken. We need to engage
all of the talent we have in our community for the full
strength of America. There is no question about that. But it
also provides a way of dealing with the gaps that we have in
our community, the wealth gap. Small business entrepreneur
opportunities for underserved communities allow us to be able
to build some wealth equities in America. So I appreciate you
mentioning both of those points.
I will now turn to our witnesses. Your full statements will
be made part of the record without any objections, since there
is no one here to object. [Laughter.]
I think we are safe on that. And you can proceed as you
wish. In the committee room we have a 5-minute time. I don't
see any timer here, so you are going to probably be relieved
from that. But I would ask that you try to summarize in about 5
minutes to give us a chance to be able to have a discussion
here.
I will introduce you as you speak, since there are six of
you. It might just be easier to introduce you one at a time as
you speak.
We will start with Ms. Natalia Luis, who is the CEO of M.
Luis Construction and M. Luis Products. She has 30 years of
experience operating her own businesses and guiding other
businesses on their growth. Her story is a testament to
perseverance and resilience. She is passionate about making an
impact in her community, and we are proud to have her business
in Maryland.
You may proceed.
STATEMENT OF NATALIA LUIS, CO-OWNER, M. LUIS CONSTRUCTION AND
M. LUIS PRODUCTS, SILVER SPRING, MD
Ms. Luis. Thank you, Senator. My name is Natalia Luis.
Along with my sister, who is here with me today, I own and
operate M. Luis Construction and M. Luis Products, companies
based in Maryland that specialize in asphalt manufacturing,
asphalt paving, concrete construction, and general contracting.
I am here today because the programs that correct an even small
amount of the discrimination that minorities and women face in
business are essential to our survival and success.
My family has faced devastating discrimination from the
beginning. Usually the discrimination is worse as we expand the
business, challenging white male dominance in our construction
industry. There have been all too many instances to recount,
but I will give you a few examples.
Some of my competition has gone through the extreme of
tapping my phones or posted big, tough guys outside of our
business operations in an effort to intimidate us and our
employees. We are proud that we have a workforce that looks
like our community, but these bullies went to the extent of
filming our employees and then posted a video on social media
with the title, ``Are these the type of people we want working
in America?''
They even tried to get the Federal Government to put us out
of business. Normally a business like ours will get one or two
labor audits every few years. We were hit with half a dozen in
one year, all due to our competitors making false claims
against us, that is that we were hiring illegal aliens. All the
audits showed was that, on average, we were not only paying
contractually required wages, but we were providing higher
wages and better benefits to our multiracial, multiethnic, e-
verified workforce.
Yet another instance was when we were seeking to work in
one of our counties. We were in a large meeting with 15 to 20
high ranking officials when midway through the Director of
Public Works and Transportation looked at us and said,
referring to the other Portuguese-owned companies working in
the county, ``Why don't you and your cousins get together and
figure out your bid because it seems like you don't know how to
do math.'' This casual racial belittlement in a public forum
directly undermines our business solely based on our minority
status.
We have brought on board members and numerous outstanding
professionals, many of whom happen to be white males. After
about 18 months with us, one of them confided in my sister and
I that while he was initially skeptical, he was astonished by
the racial and gender biases we faced. His experience with our
minority-run business brought challenges he had never faced
before in his career.
Senators and Representative, the bottom line is this:
discrimination against minority and women business owners is as
despicable as it is pervasive. As I have detailed in my
testimony, discrimination and the barriers it imposes affect
the ability of our business to operate and receive contracting
opportunities. We can and we will do our part to create a
prosperous economy for all of us, but we need you to protect
the MBE, WBE, DBE programs for victims of systemic
discrimination and institutional racism. That is minorities,
women, veterans, people with disabilities. We are all counting
on you. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Luis follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cardin. Well, thank you very much for your
testimony. [Applause.]
Our next witness is Ms. Tonya Lawson, who is the President
and CEO of Lawson Consulting. Her company works on innovative
workplace solutions through automation and AI. She has over 20
years of experience working for Federal contractors and
operating her own small business.
Ms. Lawson.
STATEMENT OF TONYA LAWSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, LAWSON
CONSULTING, FORT WASHINGTON, MD
Ms. Lawson. Senator Cardin, Senator Van Hollen,
Representative Ivey, esteemed guests, thank you for inviting me
to testify today. My name is Tonya Lawson, and I own Lawson
Consulting. I am honored to be here to address race
discrimination against minority-owned businesses as a matter of
paramount importance to minority entrepreneurs. I bring a
perspective rooted in over two decades of experience in the
Federal Government and private sector contracting. I am also a
representative of Black American small business community that
has faced discriminatory challenges for centuries and continues
to encounter discrimination that limits our ability to grow and
prosper. I would like to provide just a few examples.
A few years ago, I entered a partnership with a large
majority-owned government contractor to collaborate on Federal
contract with a small business/MBE requirement. Our team
successfully secured the contract. Unfortunately, after 2 years
of collaboration it became evident to me that this partnership
would not foster my company's success or align with my core
values. There were indications of discriminatory practices
inside the larger company. Employees spoke openly about
instances of discrimination against Black employees, including
disparities in promotion rates, mentorship opportunities, and
customer-facing roles. There was a pervasive sense among Black
employees that they needed to exceed expectations significantly
to advance, while white colleagues were systematically favored.
This year, at a recent small business development event,
where networking plays a crucial role in fostering
opportunities, I encountered a troubling instance of
discrimination that highlights ongoing challenges faced by
Black-owned businesses. As I awaited in turn in line to speak
with a lead IT procurement representative, he abruptly turned
away when it was my turn to talk to me, opting instead to
converse with two white women who were not even in line.
Simultaneously, he held up his index finger at me, in a
dismissive gesture, indicating that I should wait.
The procurement representative initially was dismissive,
but after my persistence to engage him in conversation he
eventually was very impressed with my company's capabilities
and core competencies, which focuses on process automation and
artificial intelligence.
I am not alone in experiencing situations like this.
Discrimination is pervasive, and it is effect are long lasting.
It is a reminder of the barriers that we Black Americans so
very often face in our businesses. The SBA 8 (a) and MBDA
programs have been a lifeline for countless minority small
businesses like mine, providing training, technical assistance,
and access to Federal contracting opportunities.
Racism, discrimination, and gender discrimination still
exist, especially for Black American business owners. Despite
centuries passing since era of slavery, the remnants of racial
inequality remain in our society. Supporting Black American
businesses is not just about economic empowerment. It is about
fostering a more inclusive and just society where everyone has
a fair chance at pursuing the American dream. Thank you.
[Applause.]
[The prepared statement of Ms. Lawson follows:]
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Senator Cardin. Ms. Lawson, thank you for your comments
also. These are testimonies that need to be heard and
documented, so we appreciate it very, very much.
I will now go to Ms. Ronnette Meyers. Ms. Meyers is the
President and CEO of JLAN Solutions. JLAN Solutions provides
management and training services to Federal, state, and local
government agencies, and is a certified 8 (a) company. She has
been publicly recognized on multiple occasions, including
receiving the Biden-Harris Lifetime Achievement Award. Ms.
Meyers also previously had a distinguished career in the
Federal Government.
We look forward to hearing from you.
STATEMENT OF RONNETTE R. MEYERS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, JLAN
SOLUTIONS, WASHINGTON, D.C.
Ms. Meyers. Good morning. Thank you so much. Thank you,
Senator Van Hollen, Senator Cardin, and Representative Ivey.
Thank you all. My name is Ronnette Meyers. I am the President
and CEO of JLAN Solutions.
My journey as an entrepreneur in government contracting,
particularly within the 8 (a) program, has been profoundly
shaped by confronting and overcoming both overt and subtle
discrimination and adversity. This narrative is not just about
my professional growth but also about an expose of the
persistent barrier that minorities and women entrepreneurs
frequently encounter, as well as how these barriers directly
affect my business operations.
Before launching my business, my journey as a technical
specialist within the Federal Government was married by
discrimination from the outset. Early on, I faced questions
from my boss that challenged not just my professional presence
but also my racial and gender identity. ``Why are you here? Why
did they send you?'' he asked.
Throughout my tenure I was isolated and marginalized. That
is how I felt. The toxic environment became unsustainable,
prompting me to seek new opportunities and embark on a journey
of self-employment and entrepreneurship.
Transitioning to a government contractor role in
Washington, D.C., I found a workplace that valued my skills,
where I felt like a genuine sense of belonging, which gave me
the inspiration to start my own company, JLAN Solutions, in
2010, and eventually, joining the 8 (a) program in 2018, a move
that was fueled by ambition and resilience.
Yet this new beginning was quickly tempered by the harsh
realities of entrepreneurship in a space where resources were
unevenly distributed, and support for minority-owned small
businesses like mine was minimal. My early partnerships with
the majority-owned businesses were promising but ultimately
disappointing. These collaborations, which I hoped would
bolster my business' standing and visibility, instead left me
feeling exploited and sidelined.
The first partnership I formed to secure an opportunity
with a Federal agency disintegrated when the company's
leadership unexpectedly withdrew the partnership due to my
company being a minority small business. A professional
rejection that felt personal and left me devastated. It was not
just a setback. It was a deeply personal blow that left me
questioning my worth and my place in this industry.
The subsequent challenge came when another majority-owned
business protested our successful contract bid, jeopardizing
JLAN's financial stability and future growth. An employee from
this company explicitly warned me about significant racial bias
in the company, leading all of the minority-owned businesses to
unite and address the situation through a collective letter.
This protest highlighted the systematic challenges minority
businesses encounter, from financial and structure barriers to
discriminatory practices that hinder their success.
Recently, at a networking event in Virginia, I was one of a
few Black women among predominantly white male peers. During
the networking session it was clear to me and the other Black
women that we were being dismissed by our peers. Our treatment
was not a reflection of capabilities but of systematic biases,
prejudices that continue to pervade our society.
The lessons of this journey are clear. While these
experiences have undoubtedly strengthened my resolve, I cannot
overlook the tangible losses that have been inflicted upon me
and my family. They have taken away real opportunities, both
financial and emotional.
Racial discrimination and the barriers it has imposed has
often hindered my business operations and ability to receive
contracting opportunities. Throughout these experiences, the
role of the 8 (a) program has been twofold. It has been a
crucial lifeline, providing access to opportunity otherwise out
of reach, and it has been a constant reminder of the
disparities that persist in the business world. Thank you.
[Applause.]
[The prepared statement of Ms. Meyers follows:]
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Senator Cardin. Thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Gary Moore is the Senior Business Consultant with the
Maryland MBDA Business Center. He has a background in sales,
construction, and government, and is an entrepreneur himself.
He has provided guidance and consultation to countless
Maryland-based businesses, helping connect them to
opportunities in networking, capital access, and more.
Mr. Moore.
STATEMENT OF GARY MOORE, SENIOR BUSINESS CONSULTANT, MARYLAND
MBDA BUSINESS CENTER, BALTIMORE, MD
Mr. Moore. Thank you. Good morning, Senator Cardin, Senator
Van Hollen, and Representative Ivey. Thank you for inviting me
to testify today.
My name is Gary Moore. I am the Senior Business Development
Specialist for the Maryland Minority Business Development
Agency under the U.S. Department of Commerce. I have been with
the Maryland MBDA Business Center for over 7 years. My primary
responsibility is to keep in alignment with MBDA's mission,
which is to foster growth and global competitiveness of
minority business enterprises.
In my role as a Senior Business Development Specialist for
the MBDA I help clients gain access to networks, information,
and resources, including programs like the SBA's 8 (a) business
development program. I work with government agencies,
institutions, and privately held corporations on behalf of
center clients, advocating for access to capital, procurement
opportunities, and providing them with overall strategic
business consulting. Our center has directly serviced over
1,000 minority businesses, where I have heard countless stories
of disparities in minority participation in private, state, and
local procurement opportunities.
One of my MBE clients bid on a non-MBE project and was the
lowest and most capable bidder. On any large project--this
project was for over $3 million--you must present your
qualifications, financials for bonding, references, and your
capacity to do the work before the bid so that all that is left
to do while conducting a low-bid meeting is verification of
each line item.
When the client arrived at the meeting he knew the minute
he walked in, by the prime's startled looks and subsequent
questions, they were not expecting a person of color. Instead
of conducting a normal low-bid meeting the questions shifted
from the bid requirements to him as an individual. Statements
were made such as, ``You are very articulate,'' and questions
were asked such as, ``How did you grow your business to have a
company in double-digit millions of revenue?'' These are not
statements and questions posed to Caucasian business owners I
speak with.
Though my client was highly qualified to perform the work,
had full bonding capacity of $3 million, and was the lowest
bidder, it was given to someone else who was of Caucasian
descent.
Focusing on our client as an individual and not the
company's success and ability to perform the work is blatant
discrimination. If an MBE is the most capable and is the lowest
bidder, the MBE is in a good position to win the award when MBE
participation is required. This is not the case when MBE goals
are not present or when primes are not held accountable to the
goals. Before becoming certified, our client had difficulty
getting work with prime contractors. Becoming certified has
helped open doors for him in cases where MBE utilization
requirements are in place.
Our clients believe that the impact of Nuziard v. MBDA
ruling will hurt the same programs that have helped their
businesses grow, despite the ongoing discrimination faced in
obtaining capital and procurement opportunities. Our clients
have expressed they don't need to have more of an opportunity
than anyone else, just the ability to compete on a level
playing field.
These stories reflect the wider discrimination and barriers
that minority business owners face daily as it relates to
denying MBE's access to capital, procurement opportunities,
networks and resources, as well as adverse treatment by
Caucasian prime contractors, both in private and public
sectors.
I want to say that one of my clients' sentiments was this,
that this is not in the spirit of America, where if you work
hard and are in compliance with laws you can accomplish
anything that you want and succeed. Thank you. [Applause.]
[The prepared statement of Mr. Moore follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cardin. Thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Andres Bernal is the Vice President of MGT Consulting
Group. He is a legal and quantitative researcher. His company
is currently conducting a disparity study for Maryland. Mr.
Bernal has extensive experience researching barriers and racial
discrimination in Federal contracting space for minority-owned
businesses.
STATEMENT OF ANDRES BERNAL, VICE PRESIDENT, MGT CONSULTING,
CINCINNATI, OH
Mr. Bernal. Thank you, sir. Good morning. Thank you
Congressman Ivey, Senator Van Hollen, Senator Cardin for having
me here today.
My name is Andres Bernal, and I am the Vice President of
MGT. We are a nationally recognized public sector consulting
firm. Since 1975, MGT has provided strategic, operational, and
technological solutions to government and education agencies in
all 50 states.
I have nearly 20 years of direct disparity, consulting,
quantitative, and qualitative experience analyzing all aspects
of public agency disparity research. In that time, I have
authored or co-authored more than 100 reports of findings of
whether or not race, ethnicity, and gender affects a person's
ability to do business in a marketplace.
I have been asked to offer a few observations about
historical trends that have emerged regarding how minority-
owned businesses are utilized by public entities.
Findings from hundreds of disparity studies conducted by
MGT and across the industry underscore a continuing opportunity
for targeted supplier diversity programs to address
underutilization of minority-owned businesses. Almost
universally, the results from disparity research continue to
show that MBEs are substantially underutilized, and that the
markets where these MBEs are doing business are under-realizing
their opportunity to expand their entrepreneurial sector of
their economies and to broaden economic participation among
MBEs.
When it comes to analyzing public contracting data, it is
case law and industry standard to use what the law refers to as
a ``disparity index'' to determine, statistically, if the race
of business ownership influences a business's likelihood of
availing itself of government contracting opportunities. This
index calculates how much public entities utilize minority-
owned businesses related to the availability of qualified MBEs
in a given market area.
Looking at procurement data across the nation, what we see
throughout many jurisdictions, historically, is that, despite
some progress, MBEs are substantially underutilized across all
goods and services categories, such as construction,
professional services, and goods. In those rare instances in
which there is parity in MBE utilization or even
overutilization of MBEs, what we see is a concentration among
several companies, rather than an indication that government
agencies are consistently and broadly drawing upon the local
pool of qualified MBEs.
Furthermore, when we look at the private sector business
activity and dynamics, the following observations are typically
seen. MBEs earn significantly less revenue than their majority-
owned business counterparts, even when taking into account
characteristics such as level of experience, education, and
number of employees.
The same dynamic we see when we are looking at the
likelihood of MBEs to be self-employed compared to their
majority counterparts. Studies after studies are showing the
same thing that race, ethnicity, and gender impacts a person's
ability to conduct business.
The culmination of my research including qualitative
studies, disparity studies, regression analyses, continue to
support the conclusion that public agencies across the nation
have a significant opportunity to expand utilization of MBEs,
thereby strengthening their local economies and their
communities through broader utilization of qualified minority-
owned businesses. Thank you. [Applause.]
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bernal follows:]
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Senator Cardin. Thank you for your comments.
Gary Cunningham is the Senior Advisor with the Institute on
Race, Power, and Political Economy at The New School. Mr.
Cunningham works at the intersection of racial equity and
entrepreneurship. He has vast experience providing business
consultation to minority business owners as well as advocating
for minority-owned businesses.
His former experience includes being the former President
of Prosperity Now and the CEO of Minnesota MBDA Business
Center.
Mr. Cunningham.
STATEMENT OF GARY CUNNINGHAM, SENIOR ADVISOR, THE NEW SCHOOL,
NEW YORK, NY
Mr. Cunningham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Van
Hollen, and Congressman Ivey. I appreciate being here today.
One, I just want to thank you for holding this hearing at
this critical juncture in our history as Americans.
I sit here today on the shoulders of many proud ancestors,
including the Black Creek Freedmen from Muskogee, Oklahoma,
that were in part responsible for creating Black Wall Street.
Many of you might have heard of Black Wall Street. It sits as a
pinnacle of what can be achieved by African Americans in this
country, and it was destroyed in 1921, through a race riot that
happened there many years ago. And I would argue that we still
have similar conditions today, but may not be as vitriol as
they were in 1921, but they exist.
We are at a critical juncture in our nation's history where
many of our hard-fought gains to create a more perfect union,
where everyone, no matter who they are, no matter what their
background, can fully participate in the American Dream.
These issues are under assault and continuously, court case
after court case, and we cannot turn back the hands of time in
this country. The American promise or the American contract is
built upon the idea that if you work hard, you apply yourself,
you can move up on the economic ladder of success. I would
argue that this is not the case, that all doors are not open
for small businesses within this country, particularly those
based on the color of someone's skin.
If we are to sustain our democracy it is important that we
take action and continue to maintain what we have created, but
also build upon what we created, so that all Americans, no
matter what their skin color, no matter what their ethnic
origins, can participate in our American democracy.
Despite the significant contributions of entrepreneurs of
color to the U.S. economy, which includes the launching of over
50 percent of the new businesses that have been created in the
last 10 years have been created by people of color, creating
4.7 million jobs, these entrepreneurs face systematic, systemic
barriers to success. Access to capital, which has already been
mentioned, creates a critical hurdle.
And there is study after study, both by the Federal Reserve
and by private industry, that shows that entrepreneurs of color
have been denied loans at nearly twice the rate of their white
counterparts. The disparities in loan approval rates and higher
interest rates charged to minority-owned businesses highlight
the systematic challenges of access to financial systems that
impede entrepreneurs of color from succeeding, in many cases.
Despite this, entrepreneurs of color have been a vital and
critical lifeline for American industry and for our economies,
particularly in local communities where they exist.
The government has a critical role in leveling the playing
field. This historic discrimination in lending practices and
unequal access to markets have curtailed the potential of
minority entrepreneurs. Addressing these challenges head-on is
not only a matter of equity but also economic necessity.
To dismantle these barriers, I propose not only to sustain
but to expand the initiatives like the Minority Business
Development Agency and the SBA's 8 (a) small business
development program. Moreover, we must develop targeted
financial products, such as grants and low-interest loans,
especially designed to meet the unique challenges faced by
minority entrepreneurs.
Finally, I would argue that the government bears a critical
responsibility in not only breaking down systematic barriers
but also opening up access to markets, to ensure the success
not only of minority entrepreneurs but all entrepreneurs. We
strive to build a more prosperous and inclusive economy. It is
imperative that we leverage public and private sector solutions
to empower these vital contributors to our nation's growth.
Let us pledge together to create a more inclusive and
prosperous future for every entrepreneur in our nation,
recognizing the indispensable role played by entrepreneurs of
color.
Thank you very much, and I stand ready to answer any
questions. [Applause.]
[The prepared statement of Mr. Cunningham follows:]
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Senator Cardin. Thank you. Let me thank all six of our
participants in this hearing. I think, Mr. Bernal, your
research conclusions are, you have got the exhibits here that
gave you the specifics that show that we have challenges, and
that rather than removing those challenges that sometimes there
are more obstacles put in the way of opportunity.
So yes, we could talk about one of the issues on
contracting. We find discriminatory practices of contracting
authorities trying to bundle contracts to make it impossible
for minority businesses to have a fair chance at a prime
contract. They have to come in as subcontractors. We also have
the problems of established relations of agencies, and they
don't want to open it up to additional opportunities. These are
some of the challenges we have to deal with on contracting.
And then we have the challenges on financing. Senator Van
Hollen already mentioned CDFI program, which is one area that
we try to deal with the systemic challenges we have in the
banking community of established customers. It is hard to break
that cycle. And if you are a small business, is you are not as
attractive as larger small businesses, and you are more likely
to have minorities starting as smaller small businesses.
So all of that adds to the challenges that we have in the
system. But I want to concentrate at least my first question on
the effectiveness of the 8 (a) programs and MBDA, because that
is the area I think we have the experts here to talk about. We
recognize what the courts have done. We do not know the full
impact of that yet. We are still trying to figure that out. But
could you give us some examples or your observations as to
whether the 8 (a) program has been effective in removing some
of these barriers, and can it be improved, and what damage have
the courts done to the 8 (a) program by its interpretation?
Whoever wants to start on that. Ms. Meyers.
Ms. Meyers. Sure. No problem. Thank you so much for that
question. I will just start a little bit about my history. So
my grandmother built a hair salon on the front porch of her
house in Youngstown, Ohio, where I am from. My grandfather
worked in a steel mill, and she had five children she needed to
take care of, one was with Down syndrome, so it afforded her
the opportunity to be home. But what it showed me or instilled
in me was entrepreneurship. I did not know it back then, but
that is what it instilled within me.
And then my mother is a 24-year United States Air Force
veteran. When she retired from the Air Force she started her
business in the government contracting space, and hence the
legacy is already starting. And one day my mother and I sat
down and we started having a discussion about how do we build
generational wealth. How do we create legacy businesses,
because we were not born into this.
After that discussion, JLAN Solutions was born, and I named
JLAN after my four children--Jamie, Lenae, Asia, and Nia,
because I wanted to instill entrepreneurship in them. And my
daughter, Nia, my baby girl who is a rising junior at
Pennsylvania State University, is here with me today.
And so 2\1/2\ of them have businesses now, because of this
conversation, this strategy that we have built around
entrepreneurship. My son is 100 percent disabled, but he also
played basketball in high school, so he is a shooting coach,
and he coaches people around the DMV. And I have another
daughter who is a graduate, and she has a virtual assistance
business, so she is helping people around. And then my baby
girl, during COVID, learned how to braid. So at Penn State she
is braiding everybody's hair. So we are instilling it in them.
But because of the 8 (a) program it has afforded us the
opportunity to start creating generational wealth. It has
afforded us the opportunity to start these legacy businesses.
My ultimate goal is to get the children in the business--a
couple of them are in there now--and have them learn this
business, be able to utilize the 8 (a) program as we go on,
because now family members are able to participate into this
program.
But what it has taught me was business development. The 8
(a) program has a lot of programs to help with business
development. And it has also given me access to training,
leadership programs, and executive coaches, things that we
would normally not receive for free. The APEX Accelerator,
NMSDC programs like this have just been phenomenal in helping
us with access to capital, grants, and contracting
opportunities.
And now I am proud to say because of the 8 (a) program that
I am now the prime contractor on the majority of my Federal
Government work. [Applause.]
Thank you. The challenges still exist in the access to
capital, but we are working on it. But the 8 (a) program has
been great for me, my business, my family, and my legacy.
Senator Cardin. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms. Luis and Ms. Lawson, do you have any prime contracts or
are you all partnership or subcontracts? Have you been able to
break through with prime contracts with government?
Ms. Luis. So maybe I can start on that. The majority of our
work is now prime contracting. We were very deliberate in that
journey because, as a subcontractor, it is harder to grow. It
is harder to grow.
I did want to also say that, Mr. Gary, that there was one
single day where as a prime contractor I lost four bids. That
was not because I was not the low bidder--I was. In fact, we
were the lowest responsible bidder. That contract inevitably
ended up being awarded to a multigenerational, majority
contractor, which was incredibly disappointing.
When we contract, we do not just look at the minimum
requirements for MBE and WBE subcontracting opportunities. We
actually have a mandate in our organization that we endeavor to
always exceed with as much opportunity to the MBE and the WBE
community as possible. But it has taken decades to get there,
and only because of the support of the MBE and WBE programs
have we been able to break through.
Senator Cardin. Ms. Lawson.
Ms. Lawson. Yes. Thank you for that question. My journey is
a little different in that I have been doing government
contracting and I have never been into the 8 (a) program. So
yes, as some may say that minority businesses need to pull
themselves up from the bootstraps and just work hard and
through merit that they will be able to accomplish certain
things, and my journey has been a struggle. I have always been
able to get subcontracting roles, never a prime.
A lot of times when--well, yeah, on many occasions when I
am sitting down at the table I am the only Black female, Black
small business owner and female small business owner, sitting
at that table. And that is a big challenge to overcome the
hurdles that are put in front of me when there is potentially
bias in the decision-making process.
I have often thought to pursue the 8 (a) program, but I
really wanted to do it on my own. But you know what? I was not
really able to get to the level that I wanted to get. So as a
result I am now considering. I see the benefit, I am very
familiar with the 8 (a) program, I am familiar with the
benefits that could be achieved from the 8 (a) program, going
through the process of applying to the 8 (a) program.
So if this program continues to get watered down or taken
away, given the fact that discrimination still exists in
America, if this program goes away it would even make it more
difficult for small businesses, minority businesses, women-
owned businesses to achieve any kind of success.
Senator Cardin. Thank you. Senator Van Hollen.
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all
of you for your testimony here. I think you provide very strong
and overwhelming evidence about the continuing need for the 8
(a) program and the MBDA programs and other programs, in order
to level the playing field. Because as your testimony clearly
points out we have ongoing discrimination, as you mentioned,
Mr. Bernal, even with these programs in place. They are being
underutilized, right. Minority-owned businesses are still
underutilized compared to their potential, which means that we
are not putting our full potential on the table. So I agree
with you, Mr. Cunningham, about the need not only to preserve
these programs but find ways to make them even more effective.
As I think many of you pointed out, not only is this
important to have a fair shot and economic opportunity, but
when there are more competitors that are out there, this is
also good for the American taxpayer. We want more competition
in order to ensure the taxpayers, as they go about choosing
these businesses, have a fair chance, and to allow those
businesses to get in the game, to get in the game.
So I do have a couple of questions with respect to the role
that I hear some of your competitors are playing in trying to
undermine your success. I think both Ms. Luis, I know Ms.
Meyers, others have talked about some of the harassment, some
of the false information put out there by competitors.
Can you talk a little bit more about how some of the primes
that I guess are concerned that they are going to lose a
contract to one of you, how they are undermining your efforts?
Because as I listen to you, Ms. Luis, your testimony, it seems
to me that if you have a pattern of a competitor making false
allegations there we need to make sure there is some recourse
there. And so I would be interested in comments from any of you
about what patterns you see on that issue. Maybe we will start
with you.
Ms. Luis. Thank you, sir. So I will give you two examples
today about patterns. We started as a subcontractor and slowly
but surely, organically, grew, mostly because of majority
contractor interference. When we started bidding on larger
paving contractors, that is when the boxing gloves came out.
One of the ways that we were prevented from being
successful, for instance, is, let's say I bid a mill and
overlay program and I had smaller patching crew, and I depended
on subcontractors to mill and overlay, and this happened. The
larger contractors, the larger paving contractors would
threaten the existing MBE and WBE subcontractors in that if
those subcontractors bid to me or worked for me, they would
remove all of their work, their contracted work, from them. So
these smaller subcontractors refused to bid to us, and in the
public sector where I bid most of the time you are outlining
your MBE and your WBE participation. And it became very, very
difficult to obtain that at the time, and also to complete our
jobs. And we are under liquidated damages, so when there was
any kind of delay in the schedule there was a very large
financial hardship.
Another example is when we first purchased our asphalt
plant in Rockville from Lafarge we had accounts with every
major asphalt manufacturer in Maryland. We had good accounts.
We purchased a lot of asphalt. It took us 6 years to negotiate
that deal with Lafarge, under complete secrecy, but we got it.
And when it was announced the response was extraordinary. It
was almost unacceptable that an audacious female immigrant
company would have the ability to purchase that plant.
Asphalt is temperature sensitive, so you want to work
around plants that are nearby. When we purchased the plant,
every single manufacturer refused to sell us asphalt. So we had
to take asphalt from our Rockville plant, for instance to
distances like City Center Baltimore. I would like to say that
we won an award for Falls Road with our own asphalt from
Rockville, but it was unnecessary because you can imagine it
cost us three times, four times more in hauling. It obviously
reduced the productivity rates. It increased overtime.
And so we are not economically viable for a number of
years. And so we went ahead and leased our second plant in the
Baltimore city area so we did not have that problem anymore.
Senator Van Hollen. Well, thank you for shining a light on
those, what I would have to believe are clearly abusive
practices, and I guess the question is whether there is a way
to make sure there is a penalty attached to unfair competition.
Does anybody else want to comment on this particular issue?
Ms. Meyers. Absolutely. Thank you so much. I really would
like to talk about the disparity or discrimination from large
business to small, majority-owned to minority-owned small
businesses.
Just a few years ago we were part of a team on a large bid
for a government contracting opportunity in the IT space. The
company won the bid. It was $650 million, and we had a
workshare of $9 million. The contract was protested by another
large business. The large business eventually acquired that
company, and then it took almost 2 years for us to even get
work. Where, in my testimony, I talked about how all of the
minority-owned businesses who were on that winning contract, we
had to write a letter to the ombudsman in order to get work on
the contract.
Because when large businesses, they do have a requirement
to do, I believe, about 35 percent to small business, so they
utilize us a lot to get work, but we do not necessarily see the
work. It could come in year 2, 3, 4, or 5. We do not know. By
then we may or may not still be in business. But they met their
requirement. They checked the box at the beginning. But there
is no real accountability, from my perspective, of what I have
seen.
But when that other majority-owned company won the contract
we got our subcontract agreement. Our agreement was for $4
million. And I questioned it. I said, ``Wait. We have a $9
million workshare.'' And they stated, ``Oh, you are a minority-
owned firm. You are an 8 (a). You only qualify for $4 million,
and that is all you get.''
So you can imagine how I felt, because we are ready to
staff up. You know, I have to talk to my staff, reduce our
staff, because we were expecting to grow from this. This was
our foot in the door. But like I said, we only had $4 million
workshare.
And also, when I brought it to their attention, I talked to
the vice president of the company because I was upset. And he
said, ``I apologize, but that is all we can do.'' So it makes
me think that going forward I do not necessarily want to
partner with this company anymore because of the way that they
treat their small businesses.
And we like to show our customers who we are, what we do
every month. We like to do program management reviews and
highlight our employees and what they are doing. So we do this
with this company. So buried into our contract states that they
can hire our employees after 6 months. Early on I was young,
naive into the program, did not fully understand the contract,
because at the time I could not afford an attorney at the very
beginning. And so 6 months down the road they start hiring our
employees, hired them on a Friday, did not tell us.
So on Monday, Tuesday I reached out to our employees and
said, ``Hey, you haven't input your timesheets.'' ``Oh, well,
they told us we work for them. We no longer had to input our
timesheets.'' No notification to us. So, of course, me, I go
back to the vice president and have a conversation and still,
``Well, I'm sorry. It's in the contract.''
So bottom line is we started with six people. We now have
one. We were not a Tier 1 subcontractor, so we get what we get.
It is really frustrating that we are still treated like this,
and there is no real accountability.
I am sorry. I am a little emotional about that because it
really hurts us as minority-owned businesses, and we are really
trying to build something, to grow, and they are still
hindering our growth.
Senator Van Hollen. Do not be sorry. I would be emotional
too. I would be mad as hell.
Ms. Meyers. Yeah.
Senator Van Hollen. This is one of the reasons we wanted to
have this hearing. And again, thank you, Senator Cardin, for
organizing it.
Senator Cardin. Representative Ivey.
Mr. Ivey. I have more questions than I thought I was going
to have so I apologize in advance.
The $4 million versus $9 million, I was just kind of
curious. Did you approach the contracting officer about that?
Did the government know about it, or were you concerned about
approaching the CO, or how did that play out?
Ms. Meyers. So we wrote a letter to the ombudsman, and the
ombudsman got involved with the Office of Small Disadvantaged
Business Utilization, the OSDBU, and then thereafter we started
seeing work but our workshare did not change. No one has
addressed the issue of the decrease in the dollar value.
Mr. Ivey. And what department was it?
Ms. Meyers. Which department?
Mr. Ivey. Mm-hmm.
Ms. Meyers. Transportation.
Mr. Ivey. Interesting. Okay. How long ago was that?
Ms. Meyers. So we are in year 4.
Mr. Ivey. No. I mean, how long ago was it that this popped
up? Was that 4 years ago?
Ms. Meyers. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Ivey. Okay. Okay. I was going to ask about the new DOT
rules that just came out, but I will set that to the side for
the moment.
Prebid conference was one I had a question about, as well,
and I guess this could be, well, not quite panel-wide. Mr.
Bernal, I am going to come back to you in a minute.
Back before the Ultima decision and some of those, they
would have the pre-bid conferences. Sometimes you ended up in a
scenario where there were discussions that were had, maybe
promises were made that were not kept down the road.
But I am kind of curious. To the extent there is a movement
away from, by the government, minority-specific race
classifications, what happens in the pre-bid conferences now on
these issues? In other words, if you have a minority business,
I guess back in the day there would be like 35 percent minority
business utilization requirement. Is that still in place, or
have they started moving away from those because of you are not
supposed to be designated as a minority business anymore?
Ms. Meyers. So I would probably have Ms. Luis answer that
because for us the pre-bid conferences we go to are more on the
IT side of the house, but construction is constantly pre-bid,
and office movement opportunities are pre-bid. But for us they
just kind of lay out what they are looking for, what the
socioeconomic set-asides, if there is going to be a set-aside
or if it is just for a large business. But they do tell us that
before we get there of who is invited.
We can go in and we can as our questions, but once we come
out, you know, you cannot speak to them anymore once the
opportunity hits the streets. So then we actually go ahead and
bid on the opportunity. But I think it is more prevalent in the
construction realm.
Mr. Ivey. Ms. Luis.
Ms. Luis. So from a Federal funding component I generally
bid to the state, counties, municipalities, public/private
sector, so I get the Federal spend indirectly. The number one
reason that we started bidding as a prime and letting go of
some of our subcontracting opportunities was because of those
false promises. We would be written in, and then really not
utilized, or if so, often they would come back after bid and
try to renegotiate.
Over the years there has been a lot of clean-up of that,
thanks to your efforts. There are jurisdictions that are much
better at accountability than others. We try to stick to those.
And as a prime contractor, you know, when we first opened up
our plant, one of the difficult things for the minority- and
women-owned business arena was that they were not granted
credit at asphalt plants because the financial matrices that
were used were similar to large banking. And so one of the
things that we did is we removed all of that and our team had
to come to Cidalia and I and tell us why they were not issuing
credit to minorities and women-owned. And I think when we work
as a community and we try to make sure that we are
protectionists and we keep everyone at a fair play, then
everything goes better. There has been improvement, for sure.
Mr. Ivey. Prompt pay. Again, this might be more of a
subcontract question, but I had thought that, geez, the Prompt
Payment Act was like in the '80s or sometime, but now that I am
back in the middle of this stuff I am hearing complaints again
about late payments that are being made, sometimes for,
frankly--they appear to me to be for strategic reasons as
opposed to some legitimate dispute about work that has been
performed. I wanted to get a sense of if that is something that
you are seeing, as well, if that is out there on the street
too.
Ms. Meyers. Definitely. You know, in the Federal
Government, as a small business, the FAR states that they can
pay us within 15 days, if we ask, and generally they do comply.
But when you are a subcontractor there is a 45- to 60-day
waiting period, where we have to be financially stable in order
to support these efforts. The payments sometimes come in 45,
sometimes in 60, sometimes in 70 days. We still have to reach
out and say we haven't been paid, it is in our agreement that
we are supposed to be paid on time, and we are still sometimes
not paid on time.
It poses a challenge because they said, ``Well, you know,
our accounting system is set up this way,'' or ``We haven't
been paid from the government,'' when in actuality the
government pays. But it is the primes that make us wait.
Mr. Ivey. Okay. Mr. Bernal, a couple of questions for you.
I noticed in your testimony you talked about disparity indexes
and sort of the scope of the studies that you do. It mentions
in your testimony it looks like you focus primarily on state
and local governments.
Mr. Bernal. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Ivey. All right. Do you have any familiarity with
studies that have been done that have targeted the Federal
Government?
Mr. Bernal. We do not do an overall Federal study, but
there are DOT studies that are involved with the Federal
Government. But one of the things that we always see in the
studies, and it is also because of case law, we need to be sure
that when we are analyzing the issues, they are localized. What
we see across all the studies is a corroboration of what
everybody has said today, that race, ethnicity and gender
impact a person's ability to do business in a certain
jurisdiction.
And I think it is interesting to say, you know, when we
look at these targeted programs, such as the 8 (a), we just
finished a study for Baltimore that had an 8 (a) component, we
do see progress. We see progress in the utilization of minority
businesses, subcontractors and sometimes even prime
contractors.
But one of the things I really want to lay on this, as
well, is the economic impact that we see, as well. That is
something that we have started really looking into, what is the
economic impact of these programs. And all of what we see is
that there is a true, quantifiable impact, a positive impact to
communities, to overall communities, of having investments in
these programs.
Mr. Ivey. One of the things that the judge in the Ultima
case wrote was that--he did not necessarily base his finding on
it ultimately, but he did question, or attack frankly, the
studies that were underlying. Basically he said there is
insufficient information from a records standpoint to justify
the 8 (a) program continuing in the way that it was, in other
words, race-based classification for admission into the
program.
And you might not know what he had access to or not, but
what kind of programs or studies are out there, and what would
be your thought as to how the Federal Government could go about
pulling together those sorts of records? And I guess he wanted
specific to, they used to call them SI codes. What are they,
NAICS codes now? Okay. I apologize for my oldness on that. But
I think he wanted them specific to that too. So locality and
also industry-specific would probably be important, and also
they have to be relatively contemporary, I guess, based on what
he said. He sort of argued that they were so old that they
would not be applicable.
How should the Federal Government go about pulling that
together, and to what extent is there information that is
already out there along those lines?
Mr. Bernal. And thank you, Congressman, for that question,
and you are right. I cannot speak to what the judge had in
that. But in my opinion I like to jokingly say, throw the
kitchen sink at these court systems. And what I mean by that is
we already have a lot of this data already, U.S. census data.
That is a lot of the data that we use in our disparity studies
to analyze the private sector. It looks at different levels of
those NAICS codes throughout the entire nation. It looks at it
by jurisdiction. It looks at it in different granularity. And
we can use that to determine what is the impact of race,
ethnicity, and gender on a person's ability to earn a certain
level of business revenue, on the likelihood to be self-
employed.
So the data is available. It just needs to be used, like
you said, specifically to look at commodity code level,
jurisdictional level, or even the entire nation.
Mr. Ivey. All right. Last set of questions, and I guess,
Ms. Luis, these will be mainly for you. Bureau of Engraving is
about to start construction a few miles from here, maybe five
or six miles. It is a $1.5 billion project, roughly. And I am
assuming here is going to be a lot of asphalt, concrete,
whatever, that is going to be needed there.
When we took a look, we called them up and asked them about
what their goals were, and I think it was a 6 percent small
business goal, which I thought was shocking. And we are
doubling back to it, to make sure that I read that right, but a
6 looks like a 6. I am pretty sure.
Had you heard about that? Did you bid on it? And then the
follow-up question is going to be--because we have got FBI
coming, we have got, tragically, but, you know, it has to get
done, Key Bridge is coming, the Baltimore Tunnel is coming.
There is a lot of stuff that is coming in the very near future
right here in Maryland. And I am sort of curious as to what you
are seeing and what you think your chances are for
participating in those.
What did they say, I think the bridge is going to be $1.7
billion, Engraving is $1.4, FBI is like $3.5 or something. So
literally billions of dollars coming just within a few mile
radius of here. What are you seeing? And if any of the others
of you have any knowledge of that, you speak up too. But we
will start with you, Ms. Luis.
Ms. Luis. Sure. So on those larger projects I tend to be
artificially bid out because we have two divisions to our
company, two different companies. One is construction. The
revenue cap is measured for retail road construction. For
manufacturing it is based on number of employees. That is the
test.
Mr. Ivey. Number of employees that have not been stolen
away from your company, yeah.
Ms. Luis. Yeah.
Mr. Ivey. I am sorry.
Ms. Luis. No, it is okay. It is true.
When it comes to the DB factor, our business, even though I
have fought this quite a bit, our business tends to be tested
on revenue, and because it is a manufacturing plant, those
revenues tend to put us out of the ability to compete within
the DB market.
We like to obviously participate as much as possible, but
we are typically subcontractors and utility organizations, such
as WSSE or BGE or Washington Gas, DC Water, and whatnot. When
it comes to the Federal spend I am relegated out.
Mr. Ivey. Anyone else?
Mr. Moore. I would say that just about everything everyone
said here this morning I hear on a daily basis, three or four
times a day. And sometimes I feel like a little bit of a
counselor, if you know what I mean, because you have to deal
with especially the emotional part of it.
But with the infrastructure part we have had difficulty at
the Maryland MBDA with even getting our foot in the door to
talk to somebody. So if the Senator's office, or your office
called, they would pick up the phone. And I would think that
the MBDA and the U.S. Department of Commerce, they would pick
up the phone for me too. But most of them know what the reason
is why I am calling, and so I don't get any kind of
communication back.
A lot of my client say--some of them do not even want to
bid on it. They have already got that. You know, they know who
the money is going to. Why should they even bother? And that is
also because that is things they see in their past and in their
businesses.
So I have got to try and turn that around, and I am still
knocking the door for those things. And hopefully with your
help I will be able to get through and have somebody pick up
the phone. That is all I want is a phone call and an
opportunity to speak and introduce some of my clients, like M.
Luis.
Ms. Luis. If I could just add one small piece to that, I
think one of the solutions is because these are such large
contracts, I think one of the solutions is if the Federal space
were willing to create reciprocity with local certifications,
such as Prince George's County or MDOT, I think you would
quickly get to that 35, 40-plus percent, because you have the
businesses that are certified. It is getting through the DBE,
that for those kinds of dollars typically the revenue cap
inches everyone out.
Senator Cardin. I can assure you that we heard you loud and
clear, and we will very much be engaged. To Representative
Ivey's point about the amount of public construction that will
take place in the state of Maryland over the next few years, it
is going to be dramatic. So we will absolutely be working with
the MBDA, so we will do that.
I had one other point that I just wanted to raise and that
is with the court challenges to the MBDA programs, your
thoughts as to what Congress can do, what we can do, to make
sure that the services that are provided there can continue. We
know it is going to be a challenge, but we want to work with
you in that regard.
It is not necessary for answering today, but we would
appreciate your technical support in making that a reality. Mr.
Cunningham, we also appreciate your help in that regard, with
your experience in Minnesota. So any thoughts there, please let
us know.
Mr. Cunningham. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I would say a
couple of things. One is the MBDA is doing a fantastic job of
working with the demand of contractors that are coming in to do
work with the MBDA centers across the country. The issue is
that there is just not enough staff. When I was in Minnesota at
the MBDA center, one of the things we saw, we did a market
analysis, and what we found was we were only serving about 19,
20 percent of the market that could have been served if we had
enough staff. And we were already overloaded.
I think all of the MBDA centers are seeing this kind of
demand, and that technical assistance and support that they are
providing is critical for these folks to be successful in what
they are doing.
So I would argue that the number one thing is that we have
to increase the capacity of these organizations to do this
work. This is not only just good for minority entrepreneurs; it
is good for the country.
So I will stop there, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moore. And I think the budget was cut $1.7 million.
Senator Cardin. We are now in the appropriations cycle for
fiscal year 2025, and that is one of our priorities is to try
to help in regard to budget support. But as you know, the real
challenge is in Representative Ivey's court as we try to get
reasonable caps in the budget process, and this is one of the
programs that are our priority. So we will be working with you
in that regard.
I want to thank our witnesses. This has been extremely
helpful. I want to acknowledge Carlton Atkinson, Roderick
Lewis, and my staff for helping to put this all together today.
I appreciate everyone's cooperation.
So let me just conclude by a quote from Parren Mitchell
that my staff put in front of me, which I think is very
appropriate to conclude this hearing. And this is quoting from
Parren Mitchell. ``If you believe in fighting racism you make a
commitment for the rest of your life. There is no getting off
that train. You can't say I'll put five years into fighting
racism and now I'm finished. No. You are not finished. Our job
is to fight it every day, to continue to shove it down, when it
rises up, to shove it down even harder.''
With that the hearing will stand adjourned, and we thank
you all for the fight to make our country a better place.
[Applause.]
[Whereupon, at 11:54 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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