Markup Of: H.R. 4666, A Bill To Require The Sba Oig To Submit Quarterly Reports On Ppp/Eidl Fraud; H.R. 4667, The Reclaim Taxpayer Funds Act; H.R. 4480, The…
Summary
The record of a July 18, 2023 markup by the House Committee on Small Business, Small Business Committee Document Number 118-023, with Chairman Roger Williams presiding over eight bills. They include H.R. 4666, requiring the SBA Inspector General to submit quarterly reports on PPP and EIDL fraud; H.R. 4667, the Reclaim Taxpayer Funds Act; and H.R. 3995, the Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act. Mr. Meuser cites the Inspector General's report that $200 billion in pandemic loans were potentially obtained fraudulently, including $64 billion or 8 percent of PPP and $136 billion or 44 percent of EIDL. Ranking Member Nydia Velazquez supports the fraud reporting bill and states the SBA provided more than $1.2 trillion in pandemic relief. H.R. 3995 as amended was adopted 14 ayes to 12 nays, and the Committee adjourned at 3:47 p.m.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
Full text
[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
H.R. 4666, H.R. 4667, H.R. 4480, H.R. 4670, H.R. 4668, H.R. 4669, H.R.
4671, H.R. 3995
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD
JULY 18, 2023
__________
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Small Business Committee Document Number 118-023
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
_______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-468 WASHINGTON : 2024
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TRACEY MANN, Kansas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARC MOLINARO, New York
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
ELI CRANE, Arizona
AARON BEAN, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
NICK LALOTA, New York
NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
JUDY CHU, California
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director
Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Roger Williams.............................................. 1
Hon. Nydia Velazquez............................................. 2
APPENDIX
Additional Material for the Record:
H.R. 4666.................................................... 47
H.R. 4667.................................................... 50
H.R. 4480.................................................... 55
H.R. 4670.................................................... 60
H.R. 4668.................................................... 69
H.R. 4669.................................................... 72
H.R. 4671.................................................... 76
H.R. 3995.................................................... 79
Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to H.R. 3995 Offered
by Ms. Van Duyne........................................... 81
Amendment to the Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to
H.R. 3995 Offered by Ms. Velazquez......................... 83
Amendment to the Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to
H.R. 3995 Offered by Mr. Phillips.......................... 84
Amendment to the Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to
H.R. 3995 Offered by Ms. Chu............................... 85
Amendment to the Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to
H.R. 3995 Offered by Ms. Davids............................ 86
Committee to Unleash Prosperity.............................. 87
Competitive Enterprise Institute............................. 113
Construction Association..................................... 116
Remarks of Rep. Marc Molinaro on the POST IT Act............. 117
Remarks of Rep. Dan Meuser on the Corrective Action Report
Oversight and Accountability Act (Gluesenkamp-Perez/Meuser) 118
Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council Letter........... 120
Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council Second Letter.... 122
MARKUP OF: H.R. 4666, A BILL TO REQUIRE THE SBA OIG TO SUBMIT QUARTERLY
REPORTS ON PPP/EIDL FRAUD; H.R. 4667, THE RECLAIM TAXPAYER FUNDS ACT;
H.R. 4480, THE SERV ACT; H.R. 4670, THE SMALL BUSINESS CONTRACTING
TRANSPARENCY ACT OF 2023; H.R. 4668, POST IT ACT; H.R. 4669, DOE AND
SBA RESEARCH ACT; H.R. 4671, THE CORRECTIVE ACTION REPORT OVERSIGHT AND
ACCOUNTABILITY ACT; H.R. 3995, THE SMALL BUSINESS REGULATORY REDUCTION
ACT
----------
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2023
House of Representatives,
Committee on Small Business,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:55 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams
[chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Williams, Stauber, Meuser, Van
Duyne, Salazar, Ellzey, Alford, Crane, Bean, LaLota, Velazquez,
Phillips, Scholten, Thanedar, Chu, and Davids.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. We are ready to get started. And
before we get started officially, we are going to say the
Pledge of Allegiance and a short prayer. Representative Meuser
will lead us.
Mr. MEUSER. My honor, Chairman.
Please bow your heads.
Let us all appreciate, Dear Lord, the glory and beauty of
this day. We undoubtedly will face many struggles. In some
cases, we will disagree. In some cases, we will agree. But give
us the strength and peace to keep you in mind to work for the
moral good and perform our patriotic duty to our Constitution
and our country, the United States of America. Amen.
Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The Committee will now come to
order.
A quorum is present, and without objection, the Chair is
authorized to declare a recess of the Committee at any time.
As required by House rules, a copy of the legislative
measures have been made available to Members and the public at
least 24 hours in advance. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, all votes will be rolled to the end of this
meeting.
I now recognize myself for opening remarks.
We welcome everybody here today. And today's markup is here
to discuss eight bills that address the various needs of Main
Street America. Frankly put, our nation's small business
entrepreneurs and innovators have faced some of the strongest
economic headwinds in recent memory over the past 2 years. Here
on this Committee, it is our job to be the strongest advocate
for small businesses as they are at the heart of each of our
communities and employees of nearly 62 million Americans. That
is why our work here is so important and why we must get our
economy back on track and our workforce motivated.
Furthermore, it is our job to produce policy solutions to
ensure the federal government is held accountable, especially
on behalf of the American taxpayer. The contents of these eight
bills have been thoroughly discussed by our Members. My
colleagues and I are proud of our hearings, our resulting in
legislative action to keep and help address the major issues
facing Main Street America.
Before us today are bills that address some of the
shortcomings of the SBA as identified by the Office of
Inspector General. Further, these bills address regulatory
burdens, assist veterans in their access to capital, enable
follow-up guidance on rulemaking and support collaborative
research for small businesses.
I want to thank our Members for bringing these bills
forward as they represent the work and devotion of our
Committee as a whole, as well as the Ranking Member and her
staff by working hand in hand with us to come up with
bipartisan policy solutions to address the issues impacting
main street.
I ask unanimous consent for four letters of support for our
legislation to be entered into the record.
Without objection it is so ordered.
So, with that I look forward to today's markup, and I yield
to the distinguished Ranking Member from New York, Ms.
Velazquez, for her opening statement.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for
holding this markup today.
I am committed to working in a bipartisan manner to enact
legislation that assists small businesses, as well as conduct
rigorous oversight of SBA's programs.
The past 3 years have been extremely challenging for small
businesses. SBA provided more than $1.2 trillion in pandemic
relief, which enabled small businesses to navigate the pandemic
and stay afloat. Today, we are seeing the benefit of that aid.
Entrepreneurs have started a record number of small businesses
who have created jobs at a rapid pace. Small firms have paved
the way for some of the lowest unemployment rates in recent
times and we got more news, good news last week as annual
inflation dropped to 3 percent.
Despite the success of the pandemic relief programs, we
know bad actors took advantage of the programs. Last week, we
learned from the IG and SBA the extent of that fraud. And while
the numbers are vastly different, we must work together to
recover fraudulent funds and ensure we learn best practices for
the next global catastrophe.
That is why I support this legislation to require the SBA
and OIG to submit quarterly reports detailing the amount of
fraud.
I also support legislation requiring SBA to issue clear
guidance for borrowers, lenders, and financial institutions on
how to return PPP funds and implement a process for SBA to
track the returned funds.
But, our work does not end with the pandemic oversight as
we have many other challenges facing our small business
community. That is why I plan to lend my support to the bills
we are marking up today to help veterans, small contractors,
and innovators.
It is important to note that we did not see eye to eye on
these bills at the beginning of the process, but through hard
work of the Chairman, bill sponsors, and Committee staff on
both sides of the aisle we were able to reach a compromise. And
while I am proud of those achievements, it is disappointing we
failed to reach an agreement on one bill, but it is my hope
that we can continue to work through those differences.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
Now, does any other Member seek recognition for the purpose
of making an opening statement?
Okay. Seeing none, we will now move to the consideration of
the first bill.
H.R. 4666
The first bill we will mark up today is H.R. 4666, a bill
to require the SBA OIG to submit quarterly reporters on PPP and
EIDL fraud introduced by Mr. Bean and Mr. Mfume.
I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Mr. Bean for a
statement.
Mr. BEAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And a very
good morning to you. And good morning, Small Business
Committee.
I am fired up to introduce the PPP/EIDL Fraud Report Act of
2023, alongside my good friend from Maryland, Mr. Mfume. This
bill will require the inspector general of the SBA to submit a
report to Congress every quarter that provides detailed updates
concerning the ongoing fraud investigations of the PPP and EIDL
loan program. Most importantly, Members, it will ensure that
the recently released report of the pandemic loan fraud program
will not be swept under the rug.
Specifically, the report shall include the dollar amount of
all loans covered that were made, the number of new fraud
cases, suspected fraud cases, the type of fraud identified in
those cases, and the number of fraud cases resolved to date.
Members, this stems from the shocking report and the jaw-
dropping meeting that we had last week where the inspector
general came and talked about the tremendous fraud that is now
becoming apparent over the COVID program. It included $200
billion in potentially fraudulent COVID-19 loans that were
distributed by the SBA. The same report at that meeting, we
learned that there were more than 250,000 OIG Hotline
complaints received since the start of the pandemic, and more
than 90,000 of these cases are suspected to have fraud. It
represents--are you ready for this? Did you hear it last week?
I will repeat it again. It is over 100 years of casework. And
so, we asked the inspector general. He said I am going to climb
that mountain. Together, we can do it. We want to be kept in
the loop. And so, 100 years of investigative casework. It only
happens in crazy town right here in D.C.
And by the way, one in five, if you are playing along at
home and you want to do the math, one in five loans are suspect
of having fraud. One in five. As the inspector general
continues working on the tens of thousands of investigative
leads on the fraud, it is important for Congress to be kept up
to date and that is what this bill will do.
To close, Mr. Chairman and Members, I want to say to all
the fraudsters and thieves that stole our money, we are coming
after you. And so, to come after you, we need to be kept up. We
are going to prosecute. We are going to get our money back and
we are going to move forward.
I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to support
this legislation.
And Mr. Chairman, I yield back the remainder of my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
And now are there any other Members who wish to be
recognized for a statement on H.R. 4666?
Mr. MEUSER. Mr. Chairman, I ask to be recognized.
Chairman WILLIAMS. You are recognized.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As we discussed earlier in our hearing last week, the SBA's
inspector general detailed in his report that $200 billion of
pandemic loan dollars were potentially obtained fraudulently.
This number includes $64 billion or 8 percent of PPP and $136
billion or 44 percent of the EIDL loans. We are thankful for
the inspector general's work investigating potential fraud in
these programs, as well as tracking down or recovering those
who have committed this fraud. This legislation would simply
require the inspector general to report updated information on
his ongoing fraud investigations to Congress on a quarterly
basis. This Committee very much needs to take very seriously
our role in overseeing the SBA's loan programs, especially the
fraud that existed in these elite programs and pursue the bad
actors, bring them to justice, who fraudulently obtained the
tax dollars of our constituents and the American people. I
think we all should be very concerned and curious and accept as
our responsibility what were the entities that committed the
fraud. Were they particular banks? Were they outliers? Who are
the criminals? Where are the gaps in the system and what type
of penalties will take place to send a message that this will
not be tolerated?
So, I thank my colleague, Mr. Bean from Florida for his
leadership on this legislation. I urge my colleagues to support
its passage, and I look forward to its swift consideration on
the House floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a
statement on H.R. 4666?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chair?
Chairman WILLIAMS. You are recognized, Ranking Member.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to start off by thanking Representatives Bean and
Mfume for introducing H.R. 4666, which will better enable this
Committee to fulfill its oversight responsibilities.
During a worldwide pandemic of impressive proportions in
which our nation and our world were on the brink of economic
peril, the SBA stepped in and acted as a lifeline to keep
America's small businesses to remain open. Through PPP, EIDL,
and other COVID-related programs, the SBA distributed more than
$1.2 trillion in economic aid and executed 14 years of lending
in 14 days.
During these unprecedented times, the SBA weakened and
removed its internal controls to disburse funds as quickly as
possible. Organized criminal syndicates, transnational gangs,
and other criminals exploited this weakened control in order to
steal from the American people. The legislation we are
considering here today will help this Committee better
understand the data. This legislation requires the SBA
inspector general to send periodic reports to this Committee
for the next 2 years with detailed information regarding the
status of fraud cases, as well as the number of cases that has
been resolved. While one dollar in fraudulent activity is
certainly one dollar too many, I think it is important to
consider how our work here today will help this Committee
continue our effort to root out fraud where it exists.
I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I
yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Ranking Member.
And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation.
I agree with the gentleman from Florida that it is
essential for Congress to be informed regularly of ongoing
investigations concerning COVID-19 pandemic lending fraud. The
need for this bill was demonstrated last week during our
Committee hearing where we examined two recent reports that
investigated fraud in the COVID-19 pandemic lending program.
These contradicting reports, one from the SBA's Office of
Inspector General and the other from the Small Business
Administration, raised serious concerns. The SBA Inspector
General report concluded the SBA disbursed more than $200
billion in potentially fraudulent loans through pandemic relief
programs while the SBA reported that the fraud in these
programs is closer to $36 billion. This massive discrepancy,
more than $160 billion, demands answers.
And I greatly appreciate the work that the Office of
Inspector General has done thus far to begin uncovering the
extent of this fraud, including appearing before the Committee
last week to answer questions from our Members about their
findings.
I want to again voice my total disappointment that the SBA
Administrator Guzman declined her invitation to be part of the
conversation and answer questions about both the IG report and
the SBA's findings. For such an important topic involving the
abuse of billions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars, Americans
deserve answers, they deserve better, which is what this bill
sets to accomplish.
I want to thank my colleague from Florida, Mr. Bean, and my
colleague from Maryland, Mr. Mfume, for introducing this bill.
I also urge my colleagues to support it.
If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves
to consideration of H.R. 4666. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4666, to require the Inspector General----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4666 is
considered as read and open for amendment.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
All right. Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of
H.R. 4666 and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R.
4666 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House.
Mr. BEAN. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Bean, for what purpose does the
gentleman seek recognition?
Mr. BEAN. Mr. Chairman, for the purpose of requesting a
recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on this bill are postponed.
H.R. 4667
The next bill we will mark up today is H.R. 4667, The
RECLAIM Taxpayer Funds Act introduced by Ms. Salazar and Mr.
McGarvey.
I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Ms. Salazar, for an
opening statement.
Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This bill, The RECLAIM Taxpayer Funds of 2023 requires the
Small Business Administration, the SBA, to establish processes
to account for fraudulent and unused PPP loans as recommended
by the inspector general who we spoke to last week in this
Committee. The SBA will work with the Treasury Department to
make sure those funds are returned to the taxpayers now, as
soon as possible.
Last year, the inspector general found that the SBA did not
have the ability to handle fraudulent PPP loans, and today,
inquiries from borrowers and lenders have gone unanswered. And
as a result, hard-earned taxpayer dollars in the millions are
being wasted. This bill addresses this problem immediately by
requiring the SBA to establish guidance for borrowers and
lenders to return the money now.
While the Committee continues to uncover the extent of the
fraud in the PPP loans, I urge my colleagues to support this
common-sense bill that is a step towards restoring integrity to
government lending and dignity back to the taxpayers.
I want to thank Representative McGarvey from Kentucky in
joining me on this legislation, and I ask my colleagues to vote
yes on The RECLAIM Taxpayer Funds Act.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
I now recognize the bill's co-sponsor, Mr. McGarvey, for an
opening statement.
Okay. Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized
for a statement on H.R. 4667?
Okay. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking
Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
While Mr. Bean and Mr. Mfume's legislation will enable us
to oversee the investigation and prosecution of potentially
fraudulent PPP loans, Representatives Salazar and Mr.
McGarvey's legislation will help ensure any unused PPP funds
are properly returned to the American taxpayer. H.R. 4667
requires the SBA to issue guidance and rules for lenders and
borrowers on how they are to handle and return unused PPP loans
to the SBA. Importantly, this legislation directs SBA to issue
detailed guidance for financial institutions on how they are to
return PPP funds even if they suspect the borrower acquired the
funds through fraudulent means. The IGs May report points to
the SBA lack of guidance, regulations, and ability to account
for return PPP funds as a central obstacle for lenders and
borrowers returning unused PPP funds to the administration. The
lack of guidance and regulation has led to confusion for
borrowers and lenders, leaving some lenders to even inform
borrowers that the SBA could not accept funds. This bill
resolves the problem by codifying the IG's recommendation and
requiring the SBA to establish clear and detailed guidance. The
legislation will also require the SBA to establish a process on
how it will deposit unused funds in the Treasury Department's
general fund.
I want to thank Ms. Salazar and Mr. McGarvey for
introducing this important piece of legislation. I also want to
thank Chair Williams and his team for incorporating many of our
suggestions and working with our side in a bipartisan manner. I
think this has resulted in a better outcome.
I urge my colleagues to support the bill. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Ranking Member.
And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation.
H.R. 4667, a bill to require the SBA administrator to issue
guidance on the return of PPP funds is a measure to begin
restoring integrity in government lending. As we learned from
the inspector general over the last few weeks, of the $1.2
trillion in taxpayer money that was designed to be disbursed
into small businesses during the pandemic, at least $200
billion, or 17 percent, is suspected to have been fraudulently
disbursed and this is unacceptable. As we continue to dig our
way through the mountains of data to fully understand the scope
of this fraud, there are actions that can be taken now to claw
back some of the potentially fraudulent money, actions which
have been recommended to the SBA more than once by the
inspector general.
In May of this year, the inspector general reported that
two financial institutions have frozen about $95 million in PPP
loan deposits that they suspected of fraudulent activity.
However, these institutions have not returned these taxpayer
funds to the government because they did not have sufficient
guidance on how to do so. This problem is long overdue for a
solution, and I agree with the gentlelady from Florida that her
bill addresses this problem head-on by requiring the SBA to
heed the inspector general's recommendations and establish
proper guidance to accept, process, and account for potentially
fraudulent and unused PPP loan funds.
I want to thank my colleague from Florida, Ms. Salazar, and
my colleague from Kentucky, Mr. McGarvey, for introducing this
bill. I urge my colleagues to support H.R. 4667.
If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves
to consideration of H.R. 4667. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4667, to require the Administrator----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4667 is
considered as read and open for amendment.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
All right. Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of
H.R. 4667 and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R.
4667 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House.
Ms. SALAZAR. Yeah. I would like to ask for a recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A Member asked for a recorded vote. A
recorded vote has been requested and a roll call vote is
ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11,
further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
H.R. 4480
The next bill we will mark up is H.R. 4480, the SERV Act
introduced by Ms. Davids and Mr. Alford.
I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Ms. Davids, for an
opening statement.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Our nation's veterans are uniquely prepared to become
entrepreneurs and to lead small businesses. Military experience
helps to develop highly transferable training and skills that
have prepared them for leadership roles in the private sector.
But veterans also face specific challenges in developing and
starting a business. One significant obstacle being lack of
access to capital, forcing many small businesses to turn to
alternative or online lenders which can be more expensive than
traditional sources.
And while this challenge exists certainly for all potential
entrepreneurs and small business owners, it can be especially
difficult for veterans who often have trouble accruing the
credit necessary to attract and attain capital.
The U.S. Small Business Administration works closely with
the VA and the Department of Defense on several excellent
programs specifically designed to help our veterans transition
to civilian life and to entrepreneurship. But as veterans who
recently testified in this Committee could attest, those
programs are not always as easy to find as they should be.
These are problems the SERV Act is working to address. This
bill would commission a Government Accountability Office report
on the ability of veterans and reservists to access capital and
credit which are crucial building blocks to opening a business.
This report would include analysis on common sources of credit
and how deployment of our service members affects their
individual credit. This bill also requires an interagency
taskforce to develop an action plan for greater outreach of the
programs that already exist for veterans transitioning into the
business world. That taskforce would report its findings
annually to Congress on how the SBA can better support our
veterans, service-disabled veterans, and our reservists.
Our service members and their families already sacrifice a
lot for our country, and it is definitely our duty to support
them however we can, both during and after their service. And
while programs through the SBA are just one part of that
overall support, our veterans should absolutely be able to
utilize them and grow their businesses to take care of their
families and contribute to our economy.
I want to also thank Representative Alford for his
partnership in introducing this bill and I would encourage my
colleagues to vote in favor of the SERV Act and support
successful entrepreneurship for our veterans.
With that I yield my time. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back. And thank you.
I now recognize the bill's cosponsor, Mr. Alford, for an
opening statement.
Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I rise today to speak in favor of the Successful
Entrepreneurship for Reservists and Veterans Act, also known as
the SERV Act. Representative Davids of Kansas and I are
cosponsoring this important legislation because our nation's
veterans have a tremendous impact within our small business
community. The skills veterans gain in the military make them
leaders uniquely positioned to start and grow successful
businesses. Unfortunately, veterans often face barriers when
starting or growing their business which can feel
insurmountable at times.
You know, back in May we were in this very room, and we
heard from Missouri's own Lieutenant Commander Taylor Burks. We
heard how the lack of awareness of resources available to
veterans and access to capital are major barriers and we need
to change that.
The SERV Act seeks to identify these barriers and directs
the interagency task force on veteran small business
development to create an action plan to improve outreach to
veterans informing them of available resources. Our veterans
deserve the SERV Act, and I ask that you vote yes on the SERV
Act.
And I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a
statement on H.R. 4480?
All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the
Ranking Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to thank both Ms. Davids and Mr. Alford for
calling on GAO, one of the most highly regarded organizations
in our federal government to produce a fact-based, independent
report and also requiring the SBA to develop an outreach plan
to increase awareness of their vital programs. I want to thank
them and the Chairman and the staff for working on this
legislation and I urge a yes vote.
And I yield back my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
And let me say H.R. 4480, the Successful Entrepreneurship
for Reserves and Veterans Act of 2023 ensures our nation's
veterans and reservists receive the assistance they need when
they look to start a small business of their own. This
legislation orders the Government Accountability Office to
study and report on credit access to veteran and reservist
small businesses. It also orders the interagency task force on
veteran small business development to develop and report a plan
to promote programs to veterans. Our nation's veterans and
reservists have dedicated their lives to fighting for this
country and it is vital that we provide them with the resources
they need to become successful entrepreneurs. I, like many of
my colleagues, represent military bases in my district and I
understand just how important it is that these resources are
accessible.
I want to thank my distinguished Committee colleagues,
Representatives Davids and Alford, for introducing and
cosponsoring this bill. I urge my colleagues to support H.R.
4480.
If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves
to consideration of H.R. 4480. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4480, to require the Administrator----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4480 is
considered as read and open for amendment. Does anyone wish to
offer an amendment?
Okay. Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of H.R.
4480 and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R.
4480 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House.
Ms. DAVIDS. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member is recognized.
Ms. DAVIDS. I would like to request a recorded vote,
please.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are now
postponed.
H.R. 4670
The next bill we will mark up is H.R. 4670, The Small
Business Contracting Transparency Act of 2023. It is introduced
by Ms. Houlihan and Mr. Stauber.
I now recognize the bill's cosponsor, Mr. Stauber, for an
opening statement.
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to speak in favor
of The Small Business Contracting Transparency Act. The Small
Business Administration is charged with ensuring that only
eligible firms are participating in the women-owned small
business contracting program, HUB-Z program, and recently added
service-disabled, veteran-owned small business program. These
programs are essential for fostering economic growth and
providing opportunities for small businesses to thrive.
Government agencies set aside contract opportunities for small
businesses in these programs. Delays in certifying or
recertifying procedures can have devastating consequences for
these entrepreneurs.
This is a critical issue that affects small businesses in
Minnesota and across our nation. Unfortunately, there is
limited information from the SBA about certification and
subsequent recertification processes. Additionally, the SBA
recognizes women-owned small business certifications from
third-party certifiers which further lessens transparency. The
Small Business Contracting Transparency Act would bring much
needed insight into the activities of certifying these firms,
what fees are being charged, and whether SBA is meeting its
requirements. By supporting the Small Business Contracting
Transparency Act, you will not only provide valuable assistance
to small businesses but also ensure accountability and
effectiveness in the administration of these programs.
I ask that we all vote yes on The Small Business
Contracting Transparency Act, and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
And I now recognize Ms. Scholten for a statement.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am proud to speak as an original cosponsor of The Small
Business Contracting Transparency Act sponsored by
Congresswoman Houlihan and Congressman Stauber.
The federal government spends almost half a trillion
annually on the purchase of goods and services needed for its
daily operation. Yet, the federal marketplace is a hard space
to break into, especially for small business owners. The Small
Business Administration plays an important role in ensuring
that small businesses owned by women, veterans, and
economically disadvantaged individuals are able to compete in
the federal procurement process. In doing so, SBA tracks where
federal procurement dollars go in the small business
procurement scorecard. However, the scorecard includes small
businesses that self-certify, as well as small businesses that
are formally certified by the SBA. The Office of the Inspector
General has raised concerns on false self-certification, which
is why the SBA has made steps towards addressing this issue. As
of October 2022, SBA's dynamic small business search database
included almost 150,000 firms that self-certified as small and
disadvantaged businesses.
This bill would ensure that the SBA is acquiring up-to-date
data on where federal procurement dollars are going. It would
require SBA to provide information to Congress on the
implementation of contracting certification changes to the
women-owned small business contracting program, the HUBZone
program, and the service-disabled, veteran-owned small business
program. As Ranking Member on the Subcommittee on Contracting
and Infrastructure, this additional data will inform my
Subcommittee's work to ensure that all small businesses are
able to compete in the federal procurement space.
I urge Members to vote yes on this important legislation.
Thank you, Chair. I yield back the remainder of my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
And are there any other Members who wish to be recognized
for a statement on H.R. 4670?
Okay. Seeing none I would like to recognize the Ranking
Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Chairman Williams. And thank you
to Ms. Houlihan, Mr. Stauber, and Ms. Scholten for their
collaboration on H.R. 4670.
Empowering female entrepreneurs, and specifically boosting
small women-owned companies in the federal marketplace
continues to be a top Committee and personal priority. One way
we do this is by conducting proper oversight of the tools
available to SBA that are designed to level the playing field
for women-owned government contracting firms. The WOSB program
is one such tool and a critically important program. Given the
delays in setting up the certification program at issue in this
bill, additional oversight is granted. This legislation will
help maintain the integrity of the program and ensure it works
for women business owners as intended. That is why I am pleased
to support it, and I appreciate the bipartisan work to build in
the HUBZone and SD/VOSB programs. They face similar issues and
will benefit from additional oversight as well.
Thank you. I urge a yes vote and I yield back my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
And now I want to recognize myself to speak in support of
this legislation.
This bill requires the SBA to provide a report on
certification activities and contract awards within the women-
owned small business, HUBZones, and service-disabled, veteran-
owned small business programs. It holds the SBA accountable by
promoting greater transparency and ensures the SBA is doing
everything it can to make sure that small businesses
participating in contracting programs are truly eligible and
that those eligible are being recertified in an adequate amount
of time and not stuck in the slow, inefficient bureaucratic
process.
I want to thank my colleagues from Pennsylvania, Ms.
Houlihan and my colleague from Minnesota, Mr. Stauber, for
introducing this bill. I urge my colleagues to support this
bill.
If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves
to consideration of H.R. 4670. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4670, to amend the Small Business Act to
require----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4670 is
considered as read and open for amendment.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of H.R. 4670
and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R.
4670 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House.
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair, I would ask for a recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been asked and
requested and a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to
Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, further proceedings on
this bill are postponed.
H.R. 4668
This next bill we will mark up is H.R. 4668, the POST IT
Act introduced by Mr. Molinaro and Ms. Scholten.
I now recognize the bill's sponsor. Mr. Molinaro is not
here so I will speak for him. He is unable to join us right
now, but I would ask unanimous consent for his remarks as
prepared for delivery be entered into the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
Now, are there any other Members who wish to be recognized
for a statement on H.R. 4668?
All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the
Ranking Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. And thank you to Mr. Molinaro and
Ms. Scholten for working together on the introduction of the
POST IT Act.
In the last Congress, our Committee approved the One Stop
Shop Act which required the Office of the National Ombudsman to
create and maintain a centralized website with hyperlinks to
small business compliance guidance. The legislation was enacted
into law and SBA recently launched the website which will make
it easier for small businesses to comply with federal rules and
regulations. The bill we are considering today will build upon
that work by requiring the Ombudsman to publish links to
guidance documents for rules that have been certified to have a
significant economic impact on a substantial number of
entities. As we know, guidance documents helped inform small
businesses of regulations, but they can oftentimes be difficult
to find. Having a centralized site with hyperlinks to guidance
documents affecting small businesses will save entrepreneurs a
significant amount of time.
I want to thank the sponsors of the legislation for working
together in a bipartisan way to craft a bill that we can all
support.
Thank you and I yield back my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation.
The POST IT Act is an important step in simplifying the
process for small businesses to comply with agency guidance.
While allowing great entrepreneurs to spend more time building
their businesses and less on complying with needless
regulations main street can succeed.
I want to thank my colleague from New York, Mr. Molinaro,
and my colleague from Michigan, Ms. Scholten for introducing
this bill. I urge my colleagues to support H.R. 4668.
If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves
to consideration of H.R. 4668. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4668, to amend the Small Business Act----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4668 is
considered as read and open for amendment.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of H.R. 4668
and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R.
4668 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House.
Mr. CRANE. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. For what purpose does the gentleman seek
recognition?
Mr. CRANE. I request a recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on this bill are postponed.
H.R. 4669
The next bill we will mark up today is H.R. 4669, the DOE
and SBA Research Act introduced by Mr. LaLota and Mr. Thanedar.
I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Mr. LaLota, for an
opening statement.
Mr. LALOTA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, as you know, the federal contracting process
is incredibly complex. So complex in some cases the process
frustrates and drowns small business from applying for and
being granted federal contracts. My bill, the Department of
Energy and Small Business Administration Research Act, aims to
make the process a bit more simple. The Department of Energy is
one of the largest procurers of small businesses goods and
services in the entire government. Through national
laboratories, small businesses can play a critical role in
executing DOE's mission.
My district is home to one of these labs, the Brookhaven
National Lab, and our lab prioritizes working with small
businesses. Suffolk County small businesses and Brookhaven have
created a mutually beneficial relationship based on cooperative
research and technical assistance. Despite this, far too often
we hear about the difficulties which small businesses have when
trying to work with the federal government. In many cases the
issue begins with agencies not reaching enough small
businesses. The problems continue with an application process
that is bureaucratic and frustrating. My DOE and SBA Research
Act seeks to remedy this problem by requiring the SBA and
national labs to collaborate to ensure that small businesses
are better utilized. Working with the government can be a maze,
and this bill will help bring existing resources and
opportunities to innovative small businesses.
I ask that my colleagues vote yes on my bill, the DOE and
SBA Research Act.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a
statement on H.R. 4669?
All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the
Ranking Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am pleased to lend my support to the DOE and SBA Research
Act led by Representative Nick LaLota and Mr. Thanedar. The
legislation will allow SBA and DOE to carry out crosscutting
and collaborative research and development activities.
Investments in research and development is absolutely critical
to providing high paying jobs for Americans and ensuring our
country remains competitive. By increasing coordination between
the two federal agencies, we will be able to maximize the
effectiveness of our nation's premier federal research and
development programs. I applaud Mr. LaLota and Mr. Thanedar for
their bipartisan work, and I ask my colleagues to support the
legislation.
I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation.
This Committee continues to hear from small business owners
how complex, difficult, and burdensome working with the
government can be. With greater collaboration, SBA and DOE can
improve the inclusion of small businesses through the mission
of the national labs. This bill will improve coordination,
outreach, and utilization of resources to better reach small
businesses in need of support. Small businesses bring unique
and invaluable experience to research and development.
I want to thank my colleagues from New York, Mr. LaLota,
and my colleague from Michigan, Mr. Thanedar, for introducing
this bill. I urge my colleagues to support this bill.
And if there is no further discussion, the Committee enow
moves to consideration of H.R. 4669. The clerk will report.
Mr. Thanedar, you are recognized for a statement.
Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Today I am voicing my strong support of the DOE and SBA
Research Act, recognizing the indispensable role it will play
in enhancing collaboration among the Small Business
Administration and the Department of Energy, all in the name of
improving research and developmental efforts. Let's not forget
small businesses form the backbone of this country. The
innovation we stimulate within this sector is not just
important; it is vital for America's future.
This legislation does not simply propose research
collaborations. It carves a path for our small businesses to
spearhead progress. This act goes one step further. It mandates
a collaborative report within 2 years of its enactment. This is
not just a bureaucratic requirement; it is an essential stride
towards maintaining the transparency and accountability we owe
to the people. This report will empower us to monitor, and
comprehend the effectiveness of our research collaborations,
providing us with the opportunity to revise and refine
strategies as necessary.
I am excited. I am a researcher myself having authored an
SBIR grant that I won when I was an entrepreneur running my
research-based business. So, I am excited. I hope you share my
enthusiasm at the prospect of the growth and broadening of
technical capabilities that the DOE and SBA Research Act
promises to bring to our agencies. But let's always keep sight
of the ultimate goal of this legislation, creating high paying
jobs for our fellow Americans and safeguarding our nation's
competitive edge on the global stage. Remember, this is not
just about legislation. It is about our future. It is about
empowering our workforce and about asserting and maintaining
our role as a beacon of technology and innovation in a world
that looks to us for leadership.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Now, if there is no further discussion, the Committee now
moves to consideration of H.R. 4669. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4669, to provide for department----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4669 is
considered as read and open for amendment.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Okay. Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of H.R.
4669 and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 4669
is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House.
Mr. LALOTA. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Seek recognition?
Mr. LALOTA. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote,
please.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
H.R. 4671
The next bill we will mark up is H.R. 4671, a bill to
reform corrective action reports introduced by Ms. Gluesenkamp
Perez and Mr. Meuser.
I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez
for an opening statement.
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you, Chairman Williams, for
the opportunity. And thank you, Representative Meuser, for
leading this effort with me.
The SBA is tasked with ensuring that small businesses are
given a fair shot at competing for federal contracting dollars.
These federal contracts can be an incredible financial
opportunity for our nation's entrepreneurs, and Congress has
established goals to award a percentage of all prime and
subcontracts to women-owned small businesses, small,
disadvantaged businesses, service-disabled, veteran-owned small
businesses, and HUBZone certified small businesses.
When federal agencies do not meet these established small
business goals, they are required to provide SBA with a
corrective action plan that details the steps that the agency
will take the next year to meet the unmet goals down the line.
Many of these reports contain valuable information about the
actions federal agencies are taking and intend to take to meet
their small business contracting goals. But these reports are
not standardized across agencies. In fact, many of them do not
contain any oversight or accountability mechanisms at all for
agencies that fail to meet their small business goals.
My bill will correct these discrepancies across federal
agencies by requiring all agencies to include information in
these reports that will provide clarity about small businesses'
participation as federal contractors and will hold the agencies
accountable for hitting their small business benchmarks. I am
grateful for Mr. Meuser's partnership on this bill, and I am
looking forward to the Committee's support.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Mr. Meuser is unable to join us right now, but I ask
unanimous consent for his remarks as prepared for delivery
being entered into the record.
Without objection, so moved.
Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a
statement on H.R. 4671?
Okay. Seeing none I would like to recognize the Ranking
Member to speak on this bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Chairman Williams.
I am proud to support this bipartisan work by Ms. Marie
Gluesenkamp Perez and Mr. Meuser on H.R. 4671 to give us the
reporting necessary to hold federal agencies accountable for
their efforts to grow small business success within the federal
procurement marketplace.
Many federal agencies meet or exceed their annual small
business goal in certain categories. Many others do not. And
most are unable year after year to ensure that women-owned
businesses, HUBZone designated businesses, and businesses run
by service-disabled veterans receive sufficient contracting
opportunities. When they fail to meet their goals, agencies are
required to tell SBA how they will improve. But then they move
on and the next year they do it again without any oversight of
the previous proposal. The changes in this bill hold agencies
accountable by requiring them to tell SBA first if they did
what they said they would do; and second, what happened as a
result. And if it works, SBA will make that information
available to us, to the administration and to other agencies so
the proven methods can be shared and replicated. That is why I
am pleased to support the bill and I appreciate the bipartisan
work of the Committee to move it forward today.
Thank you and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation.
Declining participation of small businesses in the
government contracting space is a major concern for this
Committee. While more dollars than ever before have gone to
small businesses, the number of small businesses winning
contracts has continued to decline. This bill in part seeks to
include additional reporting data to get a better picture of
why this is occurring.
I want to thank my colleague from Washington, Ms.
Gluesenkamp Perez, and my colleague from Pennsylvania, Mr.
Meuser, for introducing this bill. I urge my colleagues to
support this bill.
And if there is no further discussion, the Committee now
moves to consideration of H.R. 4671. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 4671, to amend the Small Business----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4671 is
considered as read and open for amendment.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question is now on the adoption of H.R.
4671 and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R.
4671 is agreed to.
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Mr. Chair? Mr. Chair, I ask for a
recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on this bill are postponed.
H.R. 3995
The final bill we will mark up today is H.R. 3995, The
Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act introduced by Ms. Van
Duyne.
I now recognize this bill's sponsor, Ms. Van Duyne, for an
opening statement.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I have heard from countless small business owners back at
home in North Texas, but also in this Committee as well as in
field hearings that we have had across the country in Ways and
Means. We have had witnesses hold up binders full of
regulations that they must comply with from this administration
and the message they tell us is clear--the businesses are
drowning in regulatory red tape. I hope that my colleagues from
both sides of the aisle can agree with me when I say that the
House Committee on Small Business is committed to prioritizing
the needs of our nation's job creators and their employees. My
bill builds off the success of a Trump era policy which
required two federal regulations to be rescinded for each new
one issued. It is unfortunate that one of President Biden's
first actions was to repeal this effective regulatory reduction
act.
According to a recent report, the Biden administration has
added approximately $375 billion in regulatory costs per year.
If you include his push to release and reduce student loan
fees, that number goes up to $617 annually in costs.
Mr. Chairman, I seek unanimous consent to enter into the
record the Committee to Unleash Prosperity's report titled
Burden is Back, comparing regulatory costs between Biden, Trump
and Obama.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much.
My bill will stop the unelected bureaucrats from continuing
to inflict overreaching regulations on our small businesses.
Specifically, my bill will require the SBA to ensure that for
each fiscal year the cost of their own rulemaking is not
greater than zero dollars. Further, it requires the SBA to
publish a report on regulations issued by other federal
agencies that impact small businesses. To be clear, this bill
is not preventing agencies from adding additional regulations
that are necessary and could improve small businesses. What it
is doing is saying they can no longer continue to put layer
upon layer of these regulatory burdens on our small businesses.
I urge support of this legislation, and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a
statement on H.R. 3995?
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Recognized.
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chairman, I rise to speak in favor of H.R.
3995, the Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act, a crucial
piece of legislation that impacts small businesses including
those in Minnesota. During the Trump administration, our
government adopted the principle of one in, two out by
repealing two regulations for every new one introduced. It
created an environment that promoted economic growth and
empowered small businesses to thrive.
Under the current administration, this policy has been
rescinded and replaced with an overregulation policy that has
imposed nearly $360 billion in new regulatory costs on small
businesses. Minnesota is known for its vibrant small business
community, but the crushing regulatory policies implemented by
this administration, paired with exorbitantly high inflation
from their spending habits has left our small businesses across
the nation struggling.
By reducing excessive regulations, we will counter the
actions of this administration, provide a favorable environment
for small businesses to flourish, and reverse the economic
trajectory of this country. The Small Business Regulatory
Reduction Act requires the Small Business Administration to
ensure that any new regulations from their agency does not
impose a cost on small businesses. Additionally, it mandates
that the SBA report on regulations issued by other federal
agencies that directly impact small businesses. We recognize
the vital role small businesses play in our economy and
acknowledge their potential for growth and success. This bill
is a step forward in promoting fairness, accountability, and
responsible governance. It is essential that we support this
bill to ensure the success and vitality of small businesses not
only in Minnesota but all across the nation.
I urge you all to join me in voting yes on H.R. 3995, the
Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act. So let us stand
together in empowering our small business community and
fostering an environment that nurtures innovation, job
creation, and economic prosperity. And I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a
statement on H.R. 3995?
All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the
Ranking Member to speak on this bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Throughout my tenure on the Committee, I have tried very
hard to work with my colleagues on both sides to put forth
thoughtful bipartisan bills that will make life easier for
small business owners. Today, we are considering a bill that
will drive a wedge between the Members of this Committee who
are all committed to helping small businesses. This bill
mandating a zero or negative regulatory budget for SBA may
sound good on the surface but it will have the practical effect
of limiting the SBA from issuing any rules. As written, it will
be incredibly difficult for SBA to adhere to it. Unfortunately,
I will not be able to lend my support to the Small Business
Regulatory Reduction Act. Everyone on this Committee wants to
lessen the burden of regulations on small businesses but this
bill falls short, and it will have the practical effect of
preventing the agency from issuing regulations to benefit small
businesses. Because of the unintended consequences of the bill,
I am opposed to the bill as drafted.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation.
H.R. 3995 is a win for Main Street America. As an advocate
for small business, the last thing the SBA should be doing is
requiring them to be spending their hard-earned dollars on
complying with their burdensome regulations and rules. This
legislation is common sense and should pass this Committee with
broad bipartisan support.
I want to thank Ms. Van Duyne for her work on this
legislation and I urge my colleagues to support this bill.
If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves
to consideration of H.R. 3995. The clerk will report.
The CLERK. H.R. 3995, to require the Administrator----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, 3995 is considered as
read and open for amendment.
There is an amendment in the nature of a substitute at the
desk. The amendment has been pre-distributed to all Members.
The clerk will report the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R.
3995----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is
considered as read and the substitute will be considered as
base text for the purpose of further amendment.
I now recognize Ms. Van Duyne for a statement on her
amendment.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. My amendment makes conforming changes to
ensure the bill complies with 1-18-4 protocols.
And I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Do any other Members wish to be recognized for a statement
on the amendment?
Okay. If none, does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Ms. Velazquez will seek recognition.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. I have an amendment at the desk.
Chairman WILLIAMS. For what purpose does the Ranking Member
seek recognition? Okay, there is an amendment at the desk. The
amendment has been pre-distributed to all Members.
The clerk will designate the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a
substitute to H.R. 3995 offered by Ms. Velazquez. Strike
section----
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is
considered as read. Ranking Member Velazquez is recognized to
explain her amendment.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The bill as written limits the ability of SBA to issue any
sort of regulation even if the benefits outweigh the costs. SBA
needs to issue regulations to update existing programs, issue
disaster declarations, and even reduce recordkeeping
requirements. This bill fails to define rules and explain which
rules will be covered by a regulatory budget. Agencies may be
able to estimate the cost of a regulation, but they do not have
hard data on the costs that are imposed. It will require the
agency to make assumptions that could turn out to be incorrect.
There is nothing in the bill that clarifies how the agency is
to implement a regulatory budget and is therefore impractical.
Let's distill this issue into a real-world scenario. No small
businesses will fail to upgrade a piece of their equipment if
it only focuses on the cost. Small businesses are savvier than
this bill implies, and they look at the whole picture, cost and
benefit. I cannot support this bill because it could bring
SBA's rulemaking to a halt and in turn limit its ability to
improve its program and services. To that end, my amendment
will strike the regulatory budget sections of the bill that are
not workable and call for the most appropriate office, the
Office of Advocacy, to report on the costs and benefits of
rules to small businesses. After the report is issued, we will
have a better understanding of the impact a regulatory budget
will have on small businesses.
I urge my colleagues to support my amendment, and I yield.
Yeah, that will be it, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
And does anyone else wish to be recognized for a statement
on Ms. Velazquez's amendment?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk
as well.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Recognized.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Oh, I am sorry. Oh, it is on hers. I am
sorry. Forgive me.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Does anybody wish to be recognized
for a statement on the amendment by Ms. Velazquez?
Okay. Seeing none, I now recognize myself for a statement
on Ms. Velazquez's amendment.
While I appreciate this amendment recognizing agencies
should be doing cost benefit analyses on their proposed rules,
I am going to have to oppose the amendment because it
undermines the intention of the congresswoman's bill. The
purpose of the underlying legislation is to ensure agencies
think twice before they continue to burden small businesses
with new regulations. If they want to have a new rule that is
going to be costly for businesses to comply, they must cut
other regulations in order to pay for it. Businesses should not
have to continually build increased compliance costs into their
budget. The American Action Form tracks how much regulations
have cost the private sector, and since President Biden took
office, the estimated cost is over $375 billion dollars. This
is not sustainable. We need to provide regulatory relief for
small businesses and the underlying bill would begin to do just
that. Again, I urge my colleagues to oppose the amendment
proposed by the Ranking Member.
The question is now the Amendment 1 to H.R. 3995 offered by
Ranking Member Velazquez.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the noes have it. The
amendment is not agreed to.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. I would like to request a recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the amendment are
postponed.
Does anyone else wish to offer an amendment?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Mr. Chairman, I now have an amendment at the
desk.
Chairman WILLIAMS. For what purpose does the gentleman--
okay, now there is an amendment at the desk by Mr. Phillips.
This amendment has been pre-distributed to all Members.
The clerk will designate the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a
substitute to H.R. 3995 offered by Mr. Phillips of Minnesota.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is
considered as read.
Mr. Phillips is recognized to explain his amendment.
Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And let me associate myself with your remarks, ``That
agencies should think twice before burdening small businesses
with additional regulation.'' I do agree. I have owned a number
of small businesses and understand firsthand. Let me tell you
how overly burdensome regulation is bad for business. I think
we all agree with that. Small enterprises often lack the
resources to comply with directives from the federal
government, especially compared to their larger competitors.
And as Members of this Committee, it is critical that we
advocate for the many millions of small businesses across the
country and that includes being mindful of the impact of
federal regulation on small business.
So, I want to say I share common ground with you, Mr.
Chairman, and my friend, Ms. Van Duyne, the author of the
legislation. Where I disagree is that I believe it is far too
blunt and rigid and would prove to be somewhat
counterproductive to the intentions and the interests of small
business. I think the narrower requirements of the proposed
small business regulatory budget will hamstring the SBA in
implementing even the most common-sense regulations, ultimately
preventing the agency from carrying out its core mission. That
is why I filed this amendment which proposes just a few
practical changes that I think would provide a more measured
approach to the matter at hand. It would require the SBA to
simply ensure that the costs of its regulations do not exceed
their benefits. Consistent with the stated goal of the
legislation, the provision would prevent SBA rule makers from
cutting into the bottom line of small businesses but calculate
their impact on a more thoughtful and comprehensive way. Too
many, I believe, characterize regulation as inherently negative
but I believe that attitude is an oversimplification of the
issue. To be sure, overregulation is bad but appropriate
regulation I think we can all agree is essential. So, if we are
going to measure the impact that regulations have on small
business, we have to consider more than just half the equation.
And I will just give you an example. Back to the early days of
COVID-19 when we came together and passed the CARES Act and the
all-important paycheck protection program. After the program
was established, SBA issued an interim final rule to implement
it. This rule technically imposed minor costs on small
businesses through its recordkeeping and reporting
requirements. But as I would like to think each of us on this
Committee would agree, the benefits of the PPP program far, far
outweighed those costs. But under the proposed rule before us,
or legislation, the SBA's April 2020 rule for PPP would have
been subject to the strict net zero cost requirement, meaning
that the SBA would have had to find other regulations to cut in
order to offset the cost of this essential rule even though the
impact was clearly going to be overwhelmingly beneficial for
small businesses in the country. Imposing this sort of
requirement on SBA during the pandemic would have wasted
valuable time and energy when our country and economy needed it
most. Simply put, considering costs without benefits to me is
nonsensical. My great-grandfather used to tell me, Dean, price
is but one component of value. And I think that applies in this
case as well.
My amendment also offers an exemption for regulations
issued during periods of national emergency and regulations
that address fraud, waste, and abuse. Let me say it again. It
would provide an exemption for regulations that address fraud,
waste, and abuse. We need not look any further than just times
of collective desperation when a future pandemic may come,
armed conflict or other types of crises, we have to give the
SBA the ability to act quickly and decisively when small
businesses are facing great challenge.
And when it comes to protecting the integrity of the SBA
programs, we need not look further than last week's hearing
with the Inspector General. When it comes to protecting the
integrity of the SBA programs, we need not look further than
last week's hearing with the inspector general to recognize the
bipartisan consensus towards rooting out fraud, waste, and
abuse at the SBA. I think all of us on this Committee want to
see the SBA be better stewards of our taxpayer dollars. So, if
the agency wants to issue a rule that would strengthen its
internal controls or enforcement capabilities, we cannot let
proposals like this underlying legislation stand in the way.
Let me end by urging my colleagues on both sides of the
aisle to support this amendment which would, I think, improve
the legislation. The Committee has a long, proud history of
bipartisanship and I think it would be more productive to put
our heads together and find common ground rather than push this
response to an issue that so many of us care deeply about.
And let me just close by reading the amendment if I can
find it, which I cannot. Here it is. Just very quickly.
``The Administrator of the Small Business Administration
shall ensure that the costs of the small business regulatory
budget for a fiscal year do not exceed the benefits except with
respect rules relating to eliminating fraud, waste, or abuse,
or in a fiscal year during which a national emergency is
declared by the president under the National Emergencies Act.''
Those are the simple modifications.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I ask for your support and yield
back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Does anyone else wish to be recognized for a statement on
Mr. Phillips's amendment?
Mr. Bean, you are recognized.
Mr. BEAN. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I did not
think I would talk but I do want to talk because I want to tell
everybody the official title of this bill is the Small Business
Regulatory Reduction Act. That is the official title.
Let me give you the unofficial title. It is The Enough Act.
Enough. Small business owners are saying enough. Because if you
are playing along at home and keeping score, I just happen to
have the score of what our current administration has loaded up
on small business just in the past, what, 2-1/2 years since he
has been in office, 375 billion. Three hundred seventy-five
billion of new regulations that has been just dumped on the
backbone of small America. Small business America is
struggling. And anybody that has run a small business know even
in an ideal situation it is hard, but when government is
constantly putting barriers and new costs and expenses in your
way it is a miracle, they survive at all.
So today, let's pass the Enough Act, but let's not put a
big loophole in there to give this administration just another
excuse. That is what they want. They want another excuse, a
loophole to continue to load up that big number that I have
already given you. So, let's say enough. Let's say enough and
pass this bill without any additional loopholes so our small
businesses can get back to what they do best--invest, grow, and
be Main Street America.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Does anyone else wish to be recognized for a statement on
Mr. Phillips's amendment?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. I recognize Ranking Member.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. I support the amendment being offered by Mr.
Phillips. It is vitally important that we look at both the
costs and the benefits of rulemaking, as well as provide an
exemption in the event of natural disaster. Most importantly,
many of the regulations issued by SBA are necessary to
safeguard taxpayers' dollars against waste, fraud, and abuse,
and to preserve public confidence. My colleagues, we cannot
have it both ways. We cannot. Here we are. We passed a bill
today, the RECLAIM Taxpayer Funds Act. Guess what? It will
require for SBA to issue guidance and regulations. So, the SBA
could say that they will not implement this bill that we passed
today because it does not fit into their regulatory budget. So
be aware and be careful what you are calling for here today.
SBA prioritizes small businesses and seeks to limit the
regulatory burden for small employers. We must not limit their
ability to make improvements to its program and that is why I
support the amendment offered by Mr. Phillips.
Mr. Chairman, yeah. That is it.
Chairman WILLIAMS. You yield back?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Yes, I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Does anyone wish to be recognized for a
statement?
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Just real brief comments.
We are dealing with rulemaking by the SBA, not legislating
from Congress to House, both the House and the Senate and the
president. This is rulemaking from the SBA.
I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Anyone else recognized for a statement?
All right. Seeing none I want to say, again, I appreciate
everybody's remarks.
I now recognize myself to speak against this amendment.
At any given time, there are several presidentially
declared national emergencies in effect. For instance,
Executive Order No. 12978 was signed by President Clinton in
October of 1995, and it invoked the National Emergencies Act
cited in the Phillips Amendment to create a list of
specifically designated narcotics traffickers that banks and
credit units could not do business with. This is a national
emergency that will probably live in perpetuity which would
have the effect of rendering this entire bill moot. As such, we
should reject the amendment. I urge all my colleagues to oppose
this amendment.
Now, the question is now on the Amendment 2 to H.R. 3995
offered by Mr. Phillips.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I would like to request a
recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. A recorded vote has been requested
and a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13
and House Rule 11, further proceedings on the amendment are
postponed.
Does anyone else wish to offer an amendment?
Ms. DAVIDS. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Ms. Davids is recognized.
Ms. DAVIDS. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The amendment has been pre-
distributed to all Members.
The clerk will designate the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a
substitute to H.R. 3995 offered by Ms. Davids in Section 2, an
insert----
Chairman WILLIAMS. The amendment is considered as read.
Ms. Davids is recognized to explain her amendment.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As Members of Congress, we have an obligation to ensure
that small businesses across the country are supported and not
hurt by regulatory guardrails. While some rules may be onerous
for small firms and small companies, many provide immense
benefits to these main street companies. And I do fear that the
underlying piece of legislation that we are discussing may
inadvertently fail to adequately consider how the Small
Business Administration can support these companies,
particularly our veteran-owned businesses and those promoting
general workforce development.
As of 2018, veterans owned nearly 2 million businesses in
this country, employing over 5 million folks nationally. Those
businesses recorded $1.3 trillion of sales that year boosting
local economies across the entire country from coast to coast
and certainly in the Midwest. Small businesses invest locally,
create innovative jobs, teach folks new skills, and revitalize
communities. And we need to make sure that regulations worked
to unleash the true power of small businesses instead of
handcuffing them with cumbersome rules passed by Congress.
My main concern with this legislation is that it would only
consider the costs of regulations and not the benefits for
small businesses. My amendment is simple, but the cost and
benefits should be considered. It would exclude SBA rules that
promote workforce development or that benefit veteran-owned
businesses from the effects of the underlying legislation. This
will help former servicemembers start, operate, and grow their
businesses. And it will ensure that we properly tackle
workforce development challenges that our small businesses and
employers are facing nationally.
I hope that everyone here will vote in favor of my
amendment to help improve this piece of legislation.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Does anyone else wish to be recognized for a statement on
Ms. Davids's amendment?
Okay. Seeing none----
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. I would like to recognize the Ranking
Member to speak on this amendment.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
I applaud Ms. Davids for offering an amendment to carve out
veterans, service-disabled veterans and rules that promote
workforce development from a regulatory budget. Over the course
of the past 2 years, we have heard from numerous business
owners about the benefits of workforce programs. They help
businesses find skilled workers and prepare Americans for a
better future without requiring individuals to make substantial
financial investment in their future. We have also heard from
countless veterans about the importance of SBA programs to
their small businesses. We continually ask SBA to do more with
less and programmatic regulatory enhancements are a part of
addressing the very needs of veterans or providing workforce
development resources all across the country. A regulatory
budget will have the practical effect of grinding SBA
rulemaking to a halt. I support this exemption for our nation's
veterans and for rules that promote workforce development and
thank Ms. Davids. Put simply, we owe a lot to our nation's
veterans and cannot take any chances with the unintended
consequences a regulatory budget will have at SBA. Thank you.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
And I now recognize myself to speak against this amendment.
I oppose this amendment because there seems to be a
misunderstanding on how to help Main Street America. If we want
to help our job creators, we need to create a business-friendly
environment, so they grow and expand their operations. The
gentlewoman's amendment seems to say to pass a new regulation
that imposes a cost, you must first find a different regulation
to repeal so we are not compounding these expenses on small
business. So, I urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment.
Now the question is the Amendment 3 to H.R. 3995 offered by
Ms. Davids.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the noes have it.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I would like to request a
recorded vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. A recorded vote is requested, and
a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the amendments are
postponed.
Does anyone else wish to offer an amendment?
Ms. CHU. Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. There is an amendment at the desk
from Ms. Chu. This amendment has been pre-distributed to all
Members.
The clerk will designate the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a
substitute to H.R. 3995 offered by Ms. Chu.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The amendment is considered as read.
Ms. Chu is recognized to explain her amendment.
Ms. CHU. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I urge my colleagues to support my amendment to H.R. 3995,
The Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act. The underlying
bill would prohibit the Small Business Administration from
implementing any new regulations that might incur a cost on
small businesses even if those regulations might have important
benefits for small businesses; benefits which many times more
than offset those costs. We all know that our most underserved
small businesses, like those located in rural areas and those
owned by women and minorities all too often struggle accessing
the resources critical to starting and growing a business like
capital and contracting opportunities. It is a core purpose of
this Committee to close this gap in opportunity and resources
for those underserved small businesses. And I have been proud
to work towards this goal with many colleagues on both sides of
the aisle.
But we also rely on the SBA to be a partner in closing this
gap and rulemaking can be a critical tool that they use to do
this. But unfortunately, if left unchanged, this bill would
effectively prevent the SBA from engaging in new rulemaking
even if the proposed rule would have significant benefits for
the disadvantaged small businesses most in need of assistance.
My amendment would fix this by providing an exception to ensure
that SBA is able to create new rules that will specifically
help rural small businesses, women-owned firms, and those owned
by socially and economically disadvantaged individuals which
includes Black, Hispanic, Native, and Asian Pacific Americans
and other minorities and any other disadvantaged individuals.
I urge strong support for my amendment, and I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Does anyone else wish to be recognized for a statement on
Ms. Chu's amendment?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Mr. Chairman?
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
You know, thoughtful regulations can be very beneficial but
too often than not what we have seen is excessive regulations.
They stifle businesses, they burden them with additional costs,
and in some cases, they force them to lay off people or even
shut their businesses.
Now, does anybody remember the hearing where we had the
witness who was a small business owner and he held up a 4-inch,
3-ring binder. And he said if you pass this regulation this is
going to cost me over $100,000 a year. I am going to be forced
to shut down. I, unlike larger businesses, do not have full-
time staff that handles regulations. This will make me go to a
halt. We will have to lay people off and possibly shut our
doors.
I had not seen businesses come before this Committee and
say, you know what? We need more regulations. This is awesome.
What we have seen is small businesses over and over again beg
for our help to shrink regulations because they are killing
them. Again, H.R. 3995 does not prevent the SBA from enacting
additional regulations. It does not prevent it from updating
regulations or introducing beneficial regulations. But what it
does do is it forces it to be disciplined. It forces it to
review old, outdated regulations or restrictions or duplicative
regulations that do nothing but add costs, layer more burdens
on small businesses, and increase the size of bureaucracy.
We have heard from the Ranking Member that everyone here
wants to lessen the burden on small businesses. When are we
going to start?
The Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act is a great
first step and I urge support for this legislation, and I yield
back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Does anyone else wish to be recognized for a statement on
Ms. Chu's amendment?
Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much.
I do believe in my colleague's good intentions on this
amendment but I am going to oppose it. One of the things that
we talked about was $375 billion in the last 2-1/2 years. And
the Chairman is right; I have not had one small business in my
district that said, please, Washington, put more regulations on
me. Put more regulations on the business that I run. I have not
heard one.
And to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, if you
think we cannot reduce regulations I cannot find any company,
small business in the district that I represent that can help
the small business wipe out a regulation that has been harmful
to them. I believe that there will be no problem if we brought
in our small businesses across this great nation and said we
can get rid of this one, this one, and this one. Listen, it is
$375 billion coming out of COVID. And we talk about small
businesses being the engine of our economy? If they are truly
the engine of our economy, they are begging. We have had
witnesses sit at the table. No more regulations. We have to
listen to them. And I appreciate Representative Van Duyne for
bringing this up and Mr. Chair, I appreciate your comments as
well on that fourth administrative state. Unelected,
unaccounted bureaucrats putting regulations on small businesses
that have no idea the ramifications. They think it might be a
good idea in the back rooms here in Washington, D.C., but when
you get out to the small businessmen and women in this country
they are saying enough is enough. Stop the regulations.
This is a very common-sense piece of legislation, and I
yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
Does anyone wish to be recognized for a statement on Ms.
Chu's amendment?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. I recognize the Ranking Member.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have been asked when are we going to start reducing
regulations. We will start when we have a thoughtful approach
that looks at both sides of the ledger--benefits and costs. It
is just that simple. And, you know, this is clearly a messaging
bill, but the bottom line is it is unworkable as drafted.
Let's take, for example, the transitioning of VA to SBA,
the veteran certification from VA to SBA. There are rules and
regulations to make it effective. We should not be hindering
SBA's efforts to provide more oversight to the contracting
programs or make them stronger. I support the amendment being
offered by my colleague, Ms. Chu, and I urge my colleagues to
do the same. I yield back.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Ranking Member yields back.
I now recognize myself to speak against this amendment.
I oppose this amendment on the same grounds as the previous
amendment relating to veteran-owned small businesses. You
cannot regulate economic growth. You can only hamper it. The
Biden administration's disastrous regulatory agenda has left
plenty of regulations on the table to be repealed if there is
one new costly regulation that you truly believe is necessary.
I oppose this amendment, and once again, I urge all my
colleagues to do something that will actually help our nation's
job creators and reduce the number of regulations that they
must comply with.
So, the question is now on the Amendment 4 to H.R. 3995
offered by Ms. Chu.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the noes have it and the
amendment is not agreed to.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I would like to request a roll
call vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
Does anyone else wish to offer an amendment?
Okay. Seeing none the question is now on the amendment in
the nature of a substitute to H.R. 3995 offered by Ms. Van
Duyne.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it.
The amendment and the nature of the substitute to H.R. 3995
offered by Ms. Van Duyne is agreed to.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. I would like to request a roll call vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the amendment are
postponed.
The question is now on favorably reporting H.R. 3995 as
amended to the House.
All those in favor say aye.
All those opposed say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it.
H.R. 3995 as amended----
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I would like to request a roll
call vote.
Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and
House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
The Committee now stands in recess subject to the call of
the Chair. We will resume later today at 11:45.
[Recess]
Chairman WILLIAMS. The Committee will now resume
consideration of the bills on which roll call votes were
requested and postponed.
We will start with H.R. 4666, a bill to require the SBA OIG
to submit quarterly reports on PPP and EIDL fraud.
The question now is adopting H.R. 4666 and ordering it
favorably to the House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
[No response.]
Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Are there any other Members
who have not voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4666 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question is now on adopting H.R. 4667, the RECLAIM
Taxpayer Funds Act and ordering it favorably reported to the
House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
Mr. PHILLIPS. And aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye and Mr. Landsman votes
aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Mr. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Are there any other Members
who have not voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4667 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question now is adopting H.R. 4480, the SERV Act and
ordering it favorably reported to the House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Are there any other Members who
have not voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4480 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question now is adopting H.R. 4670, The Small Business
Contracting Transparency Act of 2023 and ordering it favorably
reported to the House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Okay. Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4670 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 4668, the POST IT Act
and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Are there any other Members
who have not voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4668 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 4669, the DOE and SBA
Research Act and ordering it favorably reported to the House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Landsman. Or, sorry.
Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4669 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 4671, The Corrective
Action Report Oversight and Accountability Act and ordering it
favorably reported to the House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 26 ayes, 0 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 4671 is adopted and will be
reported favorably to the House.
The question now is on Velazquez Amendment 1, Version 2 to
H.R. 3995.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes nay. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes nay. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes nay. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes nay. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes nay. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes nay. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes nay. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes no. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Nay.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes nay. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes nay. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes nay. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes nay. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Nay.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes nay. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Nay.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes nay.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 12 ayes, 14 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Velazquez Amendment 1, Version 2
to H.R. 3995 is not agreed to.
The question now is on Phillips Amendment 1, Version 1 to
H.R. 3995.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes no. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes no. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes no. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes no. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes no. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes no. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes no. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes no. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes no. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes no. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes no. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes no. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Nay.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes no. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. No.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes no.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 12 ayes, 14 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Phillips Amendment 1, Version 2 to
H.R. 3995 is not agreed to.
The question now is on Davids Amendment 1, Version 1 to
H.R. 3995.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes no. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes no. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes no. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes no. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes no. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes no. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes no. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Nay.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes no. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes no. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes no. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes no. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Nay.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes no. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. No.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes no.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 12 ayes, 14 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Davids Amendment 1, Version 1 is
not agreed to.
The question now is on the Chu Amendment 1, Version 1 to
H.R. 3995.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 12 ayes, 14 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Phillips Amendment 1, Version 2 to
H.R. 3995 is not agreed to.
The question now is on Davids Amendment 1, Version 1 to
H.R. 3995.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes no. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes no. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes no. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes no. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes no. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes no. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes no. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes no. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes no. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes no. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes no. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes no. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. No.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes no. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes aye. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes aye. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. No.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes no.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 12 ayes, 14 nays, and
0 present.
Okay. Davids Amendment 1, Version 1 to H.R. 3995 is not
agreed to.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The question now is on the amendment in
the nature of a substitute to H.R. 3995.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes no. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes no. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes no. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. Nay.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes no. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes no. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes no. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes no. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes no. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes no. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Nay.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes no. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes no. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. No.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes no. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Yes.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 14 ayes, 12 nays, and
0 present.
The amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 3995 is
agreed to.
Chairman WILLIAMS. The question now is on adopting H.R.
3995, the Small Business Regulatory Reduction Act as amended
and ordering it favorably to the House.
The clerk will call the roll.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer?
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber?
Mr. STAUBER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser?
Mr. MEUSER. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar?
Ms. SALAZAR. Aye.
The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann?
Mr. MANN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey?
Mr. ELLZEY. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Ellzey votes aye. Mr. Molinaro?
Mr. MOLINARO. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford?
Mr. ALFORD. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane?
Mr. CRANE. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean?
Mr. BEAN. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. HUNT. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Hunt votes aye. Mr. LaLota?
Mr. LALOTA. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. LaLota votes aye. Mr. Golden?
Mr. GOLDEN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes no. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. MFUME. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Mfume votes no. Mr. Phillips?
Mr. PHILLIPS. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes no. Mr. Landsman?
Mr. LANDSMAN. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes no. Mr. McGarvey?
Mr. MCGARVEY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes no. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez?
Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez votes no. Ms. Scholten?
Ms. SCHOLTEN. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes no. Mr. Thanedar?
Mr. THANEDAR. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Thanedar votes no. Ms. Chu?
Ms. CHU. No.
The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes no. Ms. Davids?
Ms. DAVIDS. Nay.
The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes no. Mr. Pappas?
Mr. PAPPAS. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes no. Ranking Member Velazquez?
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. No.
The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes no. Chairman
Williams?
Chairman WILLIAMS. Yes.
The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes yes.
Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not
voted or wish to change their vote?
Seeing none, the clerk will report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 14 ayes, 12 nays, and
0 present.
Chairman WILLIAMS. H.R. 3995 as amended is adopted and will
be reported favorably to the House.
Without objection, Committee staff is authorized to make
technical and conforming changes and Members have 2 business
days to file additional supplemental dissenting minority views.
I want to thank all of you for being here today. I think it
has been a good hearing, and we often show that we agree on
more than we do not.
If there is no further business, this concludes today's
markup.
Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:47 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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