The Great Outdoors — Small Businesses and America's Outdoor Recreation Economy
Summary
The printed record of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship hearing "The Great Outdoors: Small Businesses and America's Outdoor Recreation Economy," convened November 1, 2023, S. Hrg. 118–232. Chair Jeanne Shaheen, at her first hearing as chair, cites BEA figures that the outdoor recreation economy generated $862 billion in total economic output and 4.5 million jobs. Ranking Member Joni Ernst says the sector accounted for nearly 2 percent of U.S. GDP in 2021 and employs nearly 45,000 Iowans, and mentions her Prove It Act. Witnesses came from the Outdoor Recreation Roundtable, Vacation Okoboji, Ski The Whites, LLC and Iowa Ducks Unlimited. The record adds a Western Governors Association letter dated November 1, 2023, a New Hampshire Outdoor Workforce Assessment Survey and responses to questions from Senator Young.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
Full text
S. HRG. 118–232
THE GREAT OUTDOORS:
SMALL BUSINESSES AND AMERICA’S
OUTDOOR RECREATION ECONOMY
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
NOVEMBER 1, 2023
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63–159 WASHINGTON : 2026
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado TED BUDD, North Carolina
SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
MEREDITH WEST, Republican Staff Director
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CONTENTS
NOVEMBER 1, 2023
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Jeanne Shaheen, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire .......................................... 1
Joni Ernst, U.S. Senator from Iowa ....................................................................... 3
WITNESSES
Ms. Jessica Wahl Turner, President, Outdoor Recreation Roundtable, Wash-
ington, DC ............................................................................................................. 6
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 8
Ms. Rebecca Peters, Okoboji Tourism Director, Vacation Okoboji, Arnolds
Park, IA ................................................................................................................. 14
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 16
Mr. Andrew Drummond, Owner, Ski The Whites, LLC, Jackson, NH ............... 18
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 21
Mr. Chris Fox, State Chairman, Iowa Ducks Unlimited, Johnston, IA .............. 24
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 26
ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
NEMO Equipment
Letter Dated November 15, 2023 .................................................................... 47
New Hampshire Outdoor Workforce Assessment Survey
Survey Dated June 2022 .................................................................................. 52
Western Governors Association
Letter Dated November 1, 2023 ...................................................................... 81
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
Ms. Rebecca Peters
Responses to questions submitted by Senator Young ................................... 90
Mr. Chris Fox
Responses to questions submitted by Senator Young ................................... 92
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THE GREAT OUTDOORS: SMALL BUSINESSES
AND AMERICA’S OUTDOOR RECREATION
ECONOMY
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 2023
UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:46 p.m., in Room
428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jeanne Shaheen, chair-
man of the committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Shaheen [presiding], Cantwell, Cardin, Hirono,
Rosen, Hickenlooper, Ernst, Young, and Hawley.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHAHEEN
The CHAIRMAN. Good afternoon. The committee on Small Busi-
ness and Entrepreneurship will come to order. I am Jeanne Sha-
heen. I am the new chair of the committee. And in honor of my
first hearing, the floor has called five votes for this afternoon.
[Laughter.]
So, that is why we are a little late getting started. And we will
go back and forth during the votes and Senator Ernst, and I will
swap off in terms of chairing. It is really an honor to be here as
the new chair and the hearing today is on small businesses and the
outdoor recreation economy.
First and foremost, I want to thank my colleague, former chair,
Senator Cardin, for his leadership of this committee. His support
and guidance are very much appreciated. Thank you, Ben. I also
want to thank Ranking Member Ernst for her commitment to the
committee and the work. We had a chance to have breakfast this
morning, so we are on the same page.
This committee has a long standing tradition of working in a bi-
partisan manner, and I know that we will continue this tradition
to work together on behalf of our nation’s small businesses. I want
to welcome our witnesses today. I want to thank you all for joining
us to share your perspectives.
I am eager to hear about your work, your experiences in the out-
door recreation economy, and your assumptions of what that means
for the communities that you are living in. I also want to welcome
Andrew Drummond and the folks from New Hampshire who have
traveled to D.C. for this hearing.
Thank you very much for being here. I will introduce—we will
introduce all of the presenters in a few minutes, but I want to
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begin by talking about the outdoor recreation economy because it
stretches across all 50 States. It is one of the fastest growing sec-
tors of the economy.
And as a Granite Stater, I am really proud to be an advocate for
the outdoor recreation economy. In 2016, President Obama signed
into law legislation that I worked on, the Outdoor Recreation and
Jobs and Economic Impact Act, which requires the Bureau of Eco-
nomic Analysis to provide an accurate measurement of the outdoor
recreation industry and its contributions to the U.S. economy.
Now that we have several years of those reports, we have con-
sistent and comprehensive data that shows the impact of the out-
door recreation sector. According to the BEA’s most recent annual
report, the outdoor recreation economy generated $862 billion in
total economic output and 4.5 million jobs, reflecting a substantial
growth and surpassing pre-pandemic figures last year.
This industry supports good jobs, and it drives economic well-
being. Wages in the industry increased by 16.2 percent and employ-
ment by 13.1 percent in 2021. And I think most important, the out-
door economy is outpacing the rest of the American economy. In
2021, GDP for the outdoor recreation economy increased by 18.9
percent. That is compared to 5.9 percent for the overall economy.
So, this is an industry that supports America’s well-being. New
research suggests that outdoor recreation reduces crime rates and
improves educational outcomes, including student attention spans,
test scores, and high school graduation rates. It can also lower long
term individual and public health care costs by reducing stress and
obesity rates and by improving physical fitness.
The outdoor recreation industry is built by small businesses and
entrepreneurs. They are the backcountry guides, the fishing char-
ter boats, and they are also the product designers, transportation
providers, and like Mr. Drummond of Ski The Whites, one of to-
day’s witnesses, they are the outfitters and retailers.
Now, because the outdoor recreation industry is driven by small
businesses, it is a foundational part of many rural communities
and is critical to their economic well-being. Small businesses in this
industry face challenges that are inherently magnified on rural
main streets, including the lack of access to broadband, workforce
shortages, and problems accessing capital. These are challenges
that we as the Small Business committee are always working to
address.
A healthy environment is the foundation of outdoor recreation.
Without clean air, clean water, and snowy winters, at least in New
Hampshire, outdoor recreation small businesses, especially those in
rural areas, will suffer.
So, it is critical that we continue to invest in those areas. That
we provide adequate funding to maintain our public lands and in-
frastructure, while ensuring small business resources are easily ac-
cessible to the small firms that need their support the most.
So, I am committed to working towards this goal with our rank-
ing member and my colleagues on the committee. With that, I will
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yield to Ranking Member Ernst for her opening statement.
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STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST
Senator ERNST. Thank you. I appreciate that, Chairwoman. I
would tell you, we have got the former chairman here as well, so
I don’t have it in my notes, but I did—I want to recognize you, Ben,
and thank you so much.
Chairman Cardin had served just admirably. And Senator Sha-
heen and I had breakfast this morning, and we were talking about
the incredible achievement of getting that bill packaged together
and over the finish line here in committee.
And Ben, we couldn’t have done that without your leadership. So,
thank you for working so well with us.
Senator CARDIN. If you would just yield for one moment. First,
this was one of the great honors to chair this committee. Senator
Shaheen is going to do a great job. It was wonderful to work with
you. Now that I am taking on this new responsibility, I want to re-
turn here instead. So——
[Laughter.]
But thank you very much.
Senator ERNST. Yes. So, for our witnesses today, Senator Cardin
has moved over to chair the Senate Foreign Relations committee
and so he has a lot on his plate right now. But thanks for coming
back to the Small Business committee and joining us today.
So, again, Senator Shaheen and I met this morning, and Senator
Shaheen, and I look forward to working with you on the Small
Business committee. We work together on the Armed Services com-
mittee together as well, and I know that we will be able to work
quite well on behalf of our small businesses here in the United
States.
I want to thank our witnesses for being here today as well. I
want to welcome my fellow Iowans, Ms. Rebecca Peters, thank you,
who is the Okoboji Tourism Director at Vacation Okoboji, and Mr.
Chris Fox, a State Chairman of Iowa Ducks Unlimited, for coming
to Washington.
Thank you for being here to share your insight with us. Like
many of us, they work to preserve and enjoy our State’s great out-
doors. And I want to take a moment to specifically thank Mr. Fox
for his service to our country.
He served over 27 years in the United States Army, retiring from
the Iowa Army National Guard. Chris served as our Command Ser-
geant Major at the 248th Aviation Support Battalion, where I was
a young officer under his leadership. So, thank you very much,
Chris. Today, we will examine the role of small businesses in
America’s outdoor recreation economy.
The United States is blessed to have a great range of natural re-
sources and diverse terrain for outdoor recreation. My own State
of Iowa has extensive waterways, lakes, and trails that provide
recreation opportunities year round.
Our hikers, campers, sportsmen, and boaters regularly partner
with local farmers, small business owners, and State leaders to en-
sure Iowa’s natural resources are stewarded to leave nature better
than we found it. In 2021 alone, the outdoor recreation economy ac-
counted for nearly 2 percent of gross U.S. GDP.
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The goods and services related to outdoor recreation, including
outdoor equipment, outfitters, outdoor vehicle rentals, lodging and
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transportation are part of this $454 billion slice of the economy. In
Iowa, the value added by the outdoor recreation economy accounted
for 2 percent of our State’s GDP, with nearly 45,000 Iowans em-
ployed by the outdoor recreation industry.
Iowa’s small businesses form the backbone of the outdoor recre-
ation economy. Whether it is stocking up on fishing supplies, rent-
ing a snowmobile, or enjoying a home cooked meal at the end of
a long day of hiking, you will find a small business operating in
every sector of the outdoor economy.
Initiatives like Visit Okoboji, spearheaded by the Iowa Great
Lakes Area Chamber, bring together small businesses to foster eco-
nomic development in their community. Iowans from all walks of
life regularly enjoy our State’s waterways, trails, and wetlands.
The outstanding service provided by Iowa’s small businesses, es-
pecially their kindness and hospitality, are a large part of why visi-
tors from across the United States and the world continue enjoying
our State’s great outdoors.
I am proud to note that Iowans who are part of our outdoor
recreation economy are leading the charge on common sense, lo-
cally tailored conservation efforts. They understand better than
anyone that stewarding our natural resources, especially Iowa’s
water, helps keep our communities healthy, our crops growing, and
our State economically sound for generations to come.
Organizations like Iowa Ducks Unlimited bring together farmers,
business owners, and State and local leaders to protect and restore
our natural habitats. Despite all their hard work, small businesses
in the outdoor economy are pummeled by inflation and rising gas
prices. Under Bidenomics, Americans have less money in their
pockets and are staying closer to home, and our small business
owners are facing higher expenses, even as they have less money
coming in.
Washington’s one size fits all approach to regulation means small
businesses have to spend their time figuring out how to comply
with the burdensome Government regulations instead of focusing
on their businesses. In an effort to address this, I am continuing
to work on my Prove It Act to ensure small businesses have a voice
in the Federal rulemaking process.
I am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses about the
challenges small businesses and the outdoor recreation economy
are facing, including any downstream impact on conservation ef-
forts.
Small businesses form the cornerstone of our nation’s outdoor
recreation economy—they are the cornerstone and play a critical
role in conservation efforts. I want to thank you all for being here
today. We truly appreciate it, and I look forward to our discussion.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Ernst. And again,
thank you to all of the witnesses for being here. I will begin by in-
troducing the two witnesses for the majority, and then Senator
Ernst will introduce the two minority—witnesses for the minority.
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Jessica Turner is the President of the Outdoor Recreation Round-
table, or ORR.
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ORR is America’s leading coalition of outdoor recreation trade as-
sociations and organizations working to promote the policy reforms
needed to enhance the outdoor recreation economy.
ORR members represent the thousands of businesses that
produce vehicles, equipment, gear, apparel, and services for the 144
million Americans who enjoy our national parks, waterways, by-
ways, trails, and outdoor spaces. Ms. Turner is a very successful
advocate for the outdoor recreation economy. She has over a decade
of experience working on behalf of outdoor recreation business own-
ers and advancing the industry.
She is a passionate outdoors woman, and I am looking forward
to hearing her testimony and learning about her national perspec-
tive. Andrew Drummond is the Founder and Owner of Ski The
Whites, a backcountry gear shop based in Jackson, New Hamp-
shire.
Ski The Whites specializes in skiing, biking, and trail running
equipment, and also has its own in-house coffee brand. I like that
combination. They are a nationally recognized brand and small
business and have three full time and four part time employees in
the heart of the New Hampshire White Mountains.
Mr. Drummond is also an extremely accomplished skier, and
trail runner, and entrepreneur. He was born and raised in the
Granite State. We are proud to have him and his business in New
Hampshire, and I look forward to hearing more about his experi-
ences and his very formidable contributions to the outdoor recre-
ation economy.
Again, I am pleased to welcome the other two witnesses, and I
will ask Ranking Member Ernst if she would introduce both of
them.
Senator ERNST. Absolutely. Thank you, Madam Chair, and wel-
come to Ms. Turner and Mr. Drummond as well. It is great to have
you here testifying today. So, first, I will start with Ms. Rebecca
Peters. Ms. Peters currently serves as the Okoboji Tourism Direc-
tor for Vacation Okoboji.
She coordinates with small business owners, community groups,
and local leaders to encourage local and statewide tourism. Ms.
Peters also serves on the board of directors of the Iowa Travel In-
dustry Partners, the State’s premiere tourism association. She ac-
tively volunteers with several local organizations.
Ms. Peters earned a degree in graphic design from Drake Univer-
sity. Thank you, Rebecca, for being here today. And then we have
Mr. Chris Fox, and he is the State Chairman and Senior Volunteer
of Iowa Ducks Unlimited.
As the State chairman, Mr. Fox leads over 1,200 volunteers, co-
ordinating partnerships with State and local leaders, conservation-
ists, and small business owners to protect Iowa’s wetlands. Again,
Mr. Fox served 27 years in the United States Army and retired as
a Command Sergeant Major.
He has a business degree from Excelsior University and is a
graduate of the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy at
Fort Bliss, Texas. So, thanks to both of you for taking the time to
travel to Washington, D.C. and share with this committee the
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beauty and importance of outdoor recreation in our home State of
Iowa. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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6
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Ernst. Now we will hear
from our witnesses. Ms. Turner, I will ask you to begin, and we
will move down the panel to your left.
STATEMENT OF JESSICA WAHL TURNER, PRESIDENT,
OUTDOOR RECREATION ROUNDTABLE, WASHINGTON, D.C.
Ms. TURNER. Chairwoman Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and
members of the committee, thank you so much for this important
hearing today. ORR collectively represents over 110,000 outdoor
businesses and the full spectrum of outdoor recreation activities.
Most of these businesses are small.
They are retailers, manufacturers, guides and outfitters, apparel
entrepreneurs, campground operators, and marina owners, and
they are key aspects of rural towns and large cities across the
country. Recent data from the Department of Commerce shows that
we are a $862 billion industry.
We employ 4.5 million Americans. That is 2 percent of the U.S.
GDP and 3.3 percent of all U.S. employees. This data also shows
that outdoor recreation’s growth more than tripled over the past
year, as we saw more people flocking to the outdoors and valuing
how important time outside was to our mental, physical, and soci-
etal health.
The REC Act legislation sponsored by Senator Shaheen and
Gardner created this report. It is such a good example of a bipar-
tisan effort that has helped small businesses. The data provided
each year allows us to track our growth and has been a crucial edu-
cation tool for policymakers to understand the importance of our
sector.
While our cumulative economic power is mighty, unlike other in-
dustries with similar economic impact, we are a mile wide and an
inch deep, so our small businesses do need support.
Many have narrow operating margins, and due to their seasonal
nature, they are especially vulnerable to closures and natural dis-
asters like hurricanes, floods, and drought. Wildfires smoke or even
the threat of wildfire closures can lead small businesses with no in-
sight into when they will be open or when infrastructure will be
rebuilt.
More transparent processes on closures and, of course, a greater
focus on climate resilient infrastructure will go a long way towards
providing small businesses with the certainty they need to operate.
We also face an antiquated and unclear permitting process that dif-
fers agency to agency.
Guides and outfitters have limited staff and bandwidth. They
spend months navigating complicated structures without any cer-
tainty that they will be able to run trips within the next year.
These are just some of the many issues addressed in the America’s
Outdoor Recreation Act, sponsored by Senators Manchin and Bar-
rasso, and passed unanimously through the Senate Energy and
Natural Resources committee earlier this year.
This landmark legislation is the first ever recreation package
that combines dozens of provisions and lifts all boats in the recre-
ation economy’s rising tide. We must also note how bad a Govern-
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ment shutdown is not just for our Federal lands and waters, our
Federal workforce, and the millions of visitors that look forward to
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exploring the outdoors every year, but especially for small busi-
nesses.
While Federal staff are paid back after a shutdown, small busi-
nesses are not. Please keep the Government open, and with it, our
lands and waters, and our small businesses. High quality outdoor
recreation is impossible without access to these amazing places,
and our small business community includes some of the country’s
most committed conservationists, partnering on funding and infra-
structure projects, volunteering, educating consumers, and inno-
vating around sustainability.
They know that strong, healthy, and sustainable public lands are
the backbone of our industry and create strong, healthy, and sus-
tainable small businesses. We applaud Congress for passing the
Great American Outdoors Act, and of course, the permanent reau-
thorization of the Land and Water Conservation Fund.
We encourage you to recommit to these places, as visitation in-
creases, infrastructure ages, and inflation and climate change im-
pact our investments. Besides our lands and waters, the other most
important asset to our industry is our people. Passionate outdoor
enthusiasts are some of those who take the leap into entrepreneur-
ship and start their own business dedicated to connecting people to
nature.
Small business loans make it possible for outdoor enthusiasts to
turn their passion into product, and I hope we can work together
to narrow our growing skills gap and solve pressing issues such as
affordable housing in gateway communities. The stronger, more di-
verse, and more prepared the next generation of outdoor industry
employees are, the more our economy can thrive and grow.
ORR is also helping small communities with big plans and little
bandwidth to use recreation as an economic development tool. Ac-
cess to recreation can help with recruitment and retention, and this
is especially true in rural America, where essential recreation as-
sets like trails and lakes and mountains attract not just tourists
but also businesses, and businesses outside of the outdoor economy,
in tech, health care, finance, and more.
Congress can help connect Main Street businesses to nearby
recreation activities by elevating the EDA reauthorization and
other provisions in the Farm bill. Together, these programs allow
small businesses to do what they do best. They create jobs, amaz-
ing experiences, and they improve the vitality and quality of life in
communities across the country.
On behalf of our members, we look forward to working with this
committee to provide stability through better access to the out-
doors, better workforce pipeline opportunities, and ways for com-
munities to revitalize their economies through recreation.
Together, let’s ensure that our small businesses can continue to
be true representations of the American Dream for years to come.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Turner follows.]
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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Ms. Turner. Ms. Peters.
STATEMENT OF REBECCA PETERS, OKOBOJI TOURISM
DIRECTOR, VACATION OKOBOJI, ARNOLDS PARK, IOWA
Ms. PETERS. Good afternoon, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member
Ernst, and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation
and allowing me the opportunity to testify today. My name is Re-
becca Peters, and as the Okoboji Tourism Director, I have the op-
portunity to promote the Iowa Great Lakes area to potential and
returning visitors.
The Iowa Great Lakes area, often referred to as Okoboji, is com-
prised of seven interconnected communities woven around a chain
of glacially formed lakes in Dickinson County in Northwest Iowa.
Okoboji is home to Iowa’s largest and deepest natural lakes.
While our county is home to fewer than 18,000 permanent resi-
dents, on any given weekend in the summer, an additional 40,000
to 60,000 visitors join us to embrace the outdoor recreational oppor-
tunities found on our lakes and surrounding prairies. It is the
small businesses who enhance our visitor experience and make the
majority of our local economy.
Outdoor recreational opportunities draw visitors to Okoboji year
round. They join us each summer for boating, sailing, swimming,
and fishing on our lakes. During the winter, our ice covered lakes
are filled with ice fishermen, snowmobilers, and snowshoe hikers.
Our small businesses support those activities and provide serv-
ices to keep visitors in Okoboji longer by offering boat sales and
rentals, selling bait and fishing gear, providing guiding services,
and offering lodging and dining. One such business is Mau Marine,
a second generation family owned marina located along the lake
shore.
They give families access to the water through their boat sales
and rentals. The marina also owns the adjacent Okoboji Store, Bar
and Kitchen, which allows visitors to enjoy lakefront views, unique
food, and live music.
These businesses also support clean water initiatives. Iowa Lake-
side Laboratory is a model for immersive field based research and
education located on a 147 acre campus on West Lake Okoboji. The
Collaborative Lakes Area Monitoring Project, conducted by Iowa
Lakeside Laboratory, has been connecting scientists with volun-
teers to provide long term monitoring data on regional lake condi-
tions for the past 25 years.
This important data set has helped shape clean water policies
and guide wetland restoration projects that have helped to improve
our watershed. Water clarity in West Lake Okoboji alone has im-
proved from 10 inches of visibility to over 20 inches of visibility in
less than 25 years.
A healthy watershed and clean water are a key aspect to outdoor
recreation in Okoboji. According to a 2019 study by Iowa State Uni-
versity, water quality was the most important factor for Iowans
when choosing where to recreate. The clean water in Okoboji lures
visitors to our beaches and lake shore resorts, including
Fillenwarth Beach, a family owned and operated resort on the
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shores of West Lake Okoboji that has welcomed visitors for more
than 100 years.
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This resort gives visitors the opportunity to get on the water
through sailing, lake history cruises, and even swimming off the
dock in our spring fed waters. Guests return year after year to take
advantage of the outdoor recreation opportunities and to support
the small businesses that enhance their experience to create life-
long memories.
Most of our lodging properties in Dickinson County are small,
family owned businesses, and those businesses have helped the
municipalities in Dickinson County collect over $2 million in hotel,
motel taxes alone last year. In fact, the economic impact from visi-
tors is over $296 million and supports more than 1,300 jobs in a
county of fewer than 18,000 people.
Okoboji’s visitor economy and outdoor recreational opportunities
enhance the quality of life in Dickinson County. The quality of life
is so appealing that we are one of the few rural economies in Iowa
that continues to see population growth, and with that, more op-
portunities for small businesses.
However, Okoboji small businesses face challenges also. Inflation
is causing our small businesses to struggle with rising input costs,
while visitors have less disposable income to invest in a vacation.
In the past year, many guests have had to shorten their stay or
cancel their trip altogether.
Gas prices are another factor that affects our visitor economy.
We are primarily a drive market and to see a decrease in visita-
tion—and see a decrease in visitation when gas prices rise, and
pockets are pinched.
Overall, we are fortunate for the opportunities we have, but
there is much room for growth in this economy with outdoor recre-
ation, not just in Iowa, but in all of—or not just in Okoboji, but in
all of Iowa.
In our small agricultural State, the tourism and outdoor recre-
ation economies are growing. The most recent statewide economic
impact study shows that tourism provided a $10.4 billion economic
impact in Iowa, a 10 percent increase from the previous year. That
is the type of growth that benefits small businesses.
Supporting the outdoor recreation economy is a win when it
comes to building small businesses and drawing the employees nec-
essary to sustain those businesses.
Thank you, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and the
members of the committee for the opportunity to appear today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Peters follows.]
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18
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Peters. Mr. Drummond.
STATEMENT OF ANDREW DRUMMOND, OWNER, SKI THE
WHITES, LLC, JACKSON, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Mr. DRUMMOND. Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and
members of the committee, it is an honor to be here to tell my story
of outdoor recreation economy in my industry and represent our re-
gion of the White Mountains in New Hampshire.
Thank you for the opportunity to share with you all what I have
experienced as a small business owner in hopes of helping inform
and give opportunities to others. A little on my background.
So, I grew up in Conway, New Hampshire, a small town of
10,000 residents that thrives on tourism. Every year, visitors come
to experience our region through recreational activities like hiking,
biking, canoeing, and skiing.
My family moved here from Portland, Maine and introduced me
to our mountains, specifically through these activities like hiking
and skiing. Outdoor recreation is a cornerstone of my community.
It is how I have made the most important connections with people
in my life, maintain my mental and physical well-being, and it pro-
vides work for so many of the local and regional businesses.
I, in fact, started as a ski patroller and first aid at one of the
ski resorts. I also worked at an outdoor summer camp, and cur-
rently now I am an owner of an outdoor gear shop in Jackson, New
Hampshire and host ski and trail running events throughout the
region. And my story is kind of interesting.
I went to Colby College in Maine. I got a degree in biology, ended
up moving to San Diego to go surfing and to put my degree to use
as an environmental consultant. You know, that was a really piv-
otal point in my life where I had to make decisions of what did I
really want to do with my life now that I had a taste of the real
world.
As much as I enjoyed it out in San Diego, my story really begins
in 2014, when I moved back to Conway to be closer to my family
in the mountains I grew up in. My friend from high school was
starting a fish fertilizer company and he wanted some help, so the
business ultimately failed, but it was my introduction to entrepre-
neurship and realized I preferred working for myself.
As that chapter closed, another one opened, and a friend in the
ski industry convinced me to open up an account with a company
he worked for and sell ski gear. I decided to take his advice and
found myself filling out all the paperwork required to become a
backcountry ski dealer. And with that application, I was now a
small business owner of Ski The Whites, a backcountry ski store.
And for those of you who are not familiar with the activity of
backcountry skiing, it is much like alpine skiing without the
chairlifts, and you use specialized equipment. And you climb much
like Nordic skiing, lock your heels in, and ski back down. I think
it is the best way to travel in the mountains, in my opinion.
So, this first year of business with my new company, I think I
might have sold eight or nine items, a couple skis to friends, maybe
some mountaineering tools. I spent most of my time skiing that
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winter. It was a good winter. I had no brick and mortar store, no
marketing, and no guidance. And with skis loaded in the back of
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19
my truck, I would meet customers in parking lots and sell or rent
gear that I thought was best suited for skiing in our mountains.
The following year, a small 200 square foot space for rent in a
ski lodge came up and I took that opportunity to have a true brick
and mortar space. This would prove to be all I needed to move
things forward with my business.
And with the increased foot traffic and a venue to host events,
an outdoor community started to form around my business. The
backcountry ski community was growing. I had helped start a non-
profit to organize and promote the sport in both New Hampshire
and Western Maine, and I was also spending my free time, like I
said, in the mountains, sharing photos and videos from my adven-
ture.
This last piece is critical. Sharing media directly affects the way
people in the region think about the outdoors and what is acces-
sible in their backyard. They don’t need to book a flight for a big
mountain experience. It is right here, a day trip away. After a few
years of working out of this small space, I realized that there was
a need for year round specialized outdoor gear shop.
Making the next jump proved to be the most challenging. In
order to grow my business, I needed to move into a commercial
space with better visibility and offer services that expanded beyond
backcountry skiing. I found an old art gallery that was for sale and
was exactly what I was looking for.
It was an ideal space and location for the growth of my business,
but out of my price range. A traditional mortgage on the building
exceeded my savings, but with the guidance of my friend, I learned
about the SBA 504 loan program, which lowered the down payment
and made financing possible.
They even threw in financing for the coffee roaster. During the
closing process, the pandemic had arrived and causing additional
anxiety around the purchase. What was the future of outdoor recre-
ation?
How were the trail closures in the White Mountain National For-
est going to affect customer visits? Were customers going to have
the discretionary income to spend in our industry? And was this in-
dustry going to be able to supply the products to meet the demand?
And was my business even viable?
The following summer and winter answered all my concerns, and
it was evident that the outdoor community was growing in all three
sectors. I was focusing on skiing, biking, and trail running.
Our sales grew that summer, and for the first time I was able
to hire staff. Job creation was critical—a critical part of the 504
loan program. Over the past three years, I have added three full
time and four part time employees.
We now host eight unique events that attract participants from
all over the country and highlight our outdoor recreational opportu-
nities. We continue to work with nonprofit organizations that align
with our mission to promote outdoor—promote the outdoors and
build community.
However, we face adversity, like many other small businesses. A
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poor snow year decreases the number of customer visits signifi-
cantly. This is coined the Backyard Effect. If a city like Boston,
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New York doesn’t receive normal snowfall or experience winter-like
climate, they are less likely to recreate in winter activities.
This means that as our winters get shorter on either end of the
season due to climate change, there is an impact greater than we
experienced locally. During weekends of inclement weather, our
sales decreased by 50 percent, and this summer was the wettest
summer on record. With many of the rain events occurring on the
weekends.
This affected gear rentals, and we had a spike in rental cancella-
tions and significantly less day of rentals. This year marks the
start of my eighth year in business. Without the growth of the out-
door recreation economy and the support of the SBA 504 loan pro-
gram, I would not be where I am now. Thank you for your time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Drummond follows.]
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24
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Drummond. Mr. Fox.
STATEMENT OF CHRIS FOX, STATE CHAIRMAN, IOWA DUCKS
UNLIMITED, JOHNSTON, IOWA
Mr. FOX. Madam Chair, Ranking Member Ernst, members of the
committee, and everyone that is here today, thank you for the op-
portunity to testify on the impact of our outdoor recreation econ-
omy on small business.
It is an honor to represent Ducks Unlimited and our 1 million
supporters across the United States, as well as our nation’s
waterfowlers, our outdoor industry, conservation partners, and mil-
lions of Americans who enjoy the great outdoors every day. Ducks
Unlimited is the world’s leader in wetland conservation.
And as State chair for Iowa, I have the privilege of leading 1,200
Iowa volunteers who work tirelessly to raise private funding for
conservation, with over 100 chapters and 135 events in Iowa every
year. We have nearly 17,000 members.
Members are folks that either attend an event or just become a
member through mailing in their dues, and they contribute their
hard earned dollars because they care about the future of wildlife
and our communities that benefit from well-managed natural re-
sources. We work together with private landowners, conservation
partners, farmers and ranchers, tribes and Government agencies,
to conserve wetlands sufficient to fill the skies with waterfowl
today, tomorrow, and forever.
Most relevant to today, Ducks Unlimited’s work and the access
to outdoor recreation opportunities it provides is an indispensable
driver of economic activity, particularly in rural communities.
Ducks Unlimited’s work doesn’t just benefit the outdoor recreation
economy, waterfowler, or other wildlife.
All Americans enjoy ecosystem services that wetlands provide in
the form of carbon sequestration, clean water, groundwater re-
charge, flood mitigation, and coastal resiliency. Recreational oppor-
tunities created by conservation work are a significant economic
engine across this country.
According to a recent study published by the National Shooting
Sports Foundation, waterfowl hunting alone contributed $4 billion
to the U.S. GDP and supported nearly 57,000 jobs, paying a total
of 4—$2.4 billion in wages. Waterfowlers also paid more than $500
million in Federal taxes and nearly $400 million in State taxes.
According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, $663 million in
attributed—was attributed to trip expenditures, benefiting the
travel and service industries. These numbers get more impressive
when you expand your lens to look at the economic impact of out-
door recreation more broadly.
According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, outdoor recreation
accounts for 2.1 percent of the U.S. GDP, valued at approximately
$460 billion and generating 5.2 million high paying jobs.
What many folks probably don’t realize is that beyond the direct
connection between small business and the recreational pursuits
that natural resource conservation sustains, there is a direct link-
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age between moving dirt that is frequently involved with DU’s wet-
land conservation efforts and the economic impact of our work.
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25
With funding secured by Ducks Unlimited through private phil-
anthropic contributions of our supporters, Federal programs like
the North American Wetlands Conservation Act, and State agen-
cies like the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Steward-
ship, for example, we hire local contractors to operate the heavy
equipment needed to control for restoration of all of our projects.
Materials needed for water control structures, dikes and berms,
and other wetland project elements, are sourced locally through
local suppliers, which support American jobs directly, directly tied
to habitat conservation and the work that we make happen.
Having conserved—having Ducks Unlimited having conserved 16
million acres across North America, with over 6,000 acres con-
served in New Hampshire alone and over 83,000 in Iowa, Ducks
Unlimited’s conservation work is a driver of small business and
communities across America.
Given the importance and the impact of conservation, Congress
should therefore work to eliminate regulatory green tape that
hinders the delivery of scientifically beneficial conservation pro-
grams. Enhance voluntary and incentive based conservation pro-
grams for working lands to support farmers and ranchers.
Expand programs to meet the local needs of conservation on trib-
al lands and in areas that are accessible to historically underserved
communities. These efforts will result in more waterfowl and more
wildlife and stimulate greater economic activity in our tourism in-
dustry. And they will also make our air and water cleaner, re-
charge precious groundwater systems, and fortify our communities
against the threats of extreme weather.
These are all things that all Americans need and support. Once
again, thank you for the opportunity to be part of this panel and
to speak to this committee today.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fox follows.]
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28
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Fox, and all of our
witnesses. We will now have a round of questions, five minutes for
each questioner.
And I will begin, of course, with Mr. Drummond as the New
Hampshire—representative from New Hampshire on the panel. I
have to start with you. I very much appreciated your sharing your
personal story.
I think it is not unlike a lot of people who start small businesses,
except for the selling skis out of your car. That is a little different.
But can you talk a little bit also about the role of the outdoor recre-
ation economy in small communities in New Hampshire?
You have seen that as somebody who grew up in Conway and
who lives in the White Mountains. You talked—you mentioned that
a little bit. But why is that important, and what difference do those
small businesses make in the small communities?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. The, you know, the importance of just out-
door recreation where I live, it is sort of why we live where we live,
why people visit our area. You know, it is generating activity that
supports our local businesses.
You know, it is the backbone of many rural communities. It can
be your mountains, it can be the lakes, the trails. These are the
natural resources that are the essential assets for outdoor recre-
ation. I think of examples that I deal with.
You know, if a visitor comes, they want to come to the—come to
the White Mountains. They want to come ski. Maybe they hire a
guide, or they come by the shop to rent gear. Maybe get a cup of
coffee.
They are sort of like getting as much information as they need
to have a great day, a great experience. Say they go out and ski
and then at the end of the day they go to a brewery, but there is
all of this economic, you know, I guess, benefit of having someone
come up and visit and have these great experiences.
And they are going to tell their friends and they are going to
come back. And that is you know, that is not just skiing, that is
like any other sport, any other outdoor activity that you are going
to find up where we live. And that can be—the same could be said
for locals like my parents that moved to the Mount Washington
Valley. They wanted to live where they played and play where they
worked, I guess—find a job.
But you know, these people that are coming to live in the moun-
tains, they need to find work. They are spending money locally and
they are living there to recreate. And again, this integrates into the
community and builds the community aspect.
So it is, you need both. It is super important to have that com-
munity or else just people coming up for the weekend, mid-week,
you know, you don’t feel that sense of community, and that is
something that we always try to balance.
Like we have an understanding of the importance of the tourism
aspect, but also that we need to have a sustainable economy
around our local community too.
The CHAIRMAN. You pointed out that you now have three full
time employees and some part time employees. One of the big chal-
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lenges that I hear from businesses throughout New Hampshire is
the difficulty in getting skilled workers.
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29
And I think it is a particular challenge in the outdoor economy
because often people don’t realize they can actually work full time
in the industry. You are probably aware that at the Kennett School
District in Conway, that they have a course that students can take
on working full time in the outdoor economy.
Can you talk about the challenges that you have had with hiring
your employees and how you are dealing with that?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes, like you said, it is a skilled occupation. You
have people’s lives in your hands in a lot of these operations where
you are providing them with the gear or taking them out on the
mountain, and that is something where they need to be, you know,
paid fairly. You know, it is expensive on the small business end
where you are covering a lot of costs to have these full time em-
ployees.
But, you know, it is patience and time to find the right people.
In my situation, yes, I have people that have worked somehow in
the industry for, I don’t know, 10 or so years before they found me.
I have been lucky to find a lot of part time help that is now retired
and they have skills beyond anything that I would ever have on the
business side of things, and they can act as mentors.
And what is neat about the outdoor industry is that there are
these programs like you speak of. I know that Vermont has pro-
grams as well and a whole university system to train people to
work as—in the outdoor industry. And that is what we are going
to need to see, support for programs like that moving forward so
that we have this workforce that can support this growing econ-
omy.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Ernst.
Senator ERNST. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. And again,
thanks to all of our witnesses. Ms. Peters, I will start with you,
please. Thanks for joining us and the great work that you do rep-
resenting Okoboji.
Federal agencies often improperly certify that a regulation won’t
significantly impact small businesses, and that way those agencies,
they can avoid laws requiring them to provide regulatory flexibility
to those smaller businesses. And we have seen this just, for exam-
ple, the EPA’s WOTUS rule.
So, do you believe these one size fits all regulations are often
harmful to the small businesses in the Okoboji community?
Ms. PETERS. That is a little bit like asking are all small busi-
nesses the same and are all small communities the same? The sim-
ple answer is no. What we need to do is we need to bring people
together.
We need to bring local stakeholders together. We need to bring
local businesses together. And we need to have some transparent
discussions when coming up with regulations so that there is not
just a one size fits all.
So that small businesses can really meet the needs of their com-
munities and also work within those regulations that are set.
Senator ERNST. So, it is better if those small businesses have a
voice, maybe——
Ms. PETERS. Absolutely.
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Senator ERNST [continuing]. In how those agencies are regu-
lating.
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Ms. PETERS. Yes, absolutely. They should have a voice.
Senator ERNST. Thank you very much. And then, Mr. Fox, again,
thank you for being with us today as well.
In your experience with wetland preservation, do you often find
that the heavy handed, one size fits all regulations can hamper
preservation efforts as more resources are being diverted to under-
standing rules, regulations, and complying with Federal law?
Mr. FOX. Senator, thank you for the question. I will begin by say-
ing that Ducks Unlimited strongly believes in voluntary, incentive
based conservation. So, we don’t go to a farmer, a rancher, or a
landowner, as a nonprofit or with a Government agency that might
be a partner and try and turn them towards a conservation project.
We want them to have that be their idea and that we are open—
and we are open for business to help them with their conservation
projects, from planning—from beginning to end and maintenance
beyond.
I would say that we use the carrot and not the stick. And the
other thing, we don’t—we just don’t want it to be cumbersome be-
cause it is hard enough—being from Iowa, and if you know the
value of even our worst piece of ground, Iowa soil is very valuable,
and we want to farm the best and conserve the rest.
And we also don’t want a landowner, a farmer, or a rancher to
walk away with a bitter taste in their mouth to the point where
they wouldn’t want to conserve another piece of their ground, or
that they would communicate to other landowners, farmers, and
ranchers that maybe it is just too difficult and a bridge too far, and
don’t bother.
We want it to be easy enough that we can all have more wet-
lands, stronger soil, stronger water tables, and we feel like it is a
win, win situation in that particular case.
Senator ERNST. No, that is—that is really great. And we appre-
ciate the work that Ducks Unlimited does do across the spectrum
in Iowa. I was able to visit a county in Southwest Iowa not all that
long ago, and it was not a Ducks Unlimited project, it was actually
through Federal Government funding for conservation.
But they did express to me the frustration that they were going
through and working with the Federal agencies, the rules and reg-
ulations that they had to balance, and it became very cumbersome
for them and very costly in the end, more so than they thought it
would. Yes, comments, Mr. Fox.
Mr. FOX. Just in that, the more time it takes to jump through
the hoops and over the hurdles, those dollars don’t get to be spent
on actual conservation. That is the point, too.
Senator ERNST. Right. Yes. And thank you so much. And I am
running out of time, so I am hoping we will have another round
of questions. Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hirono.
Senator HIRONO. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I thank the
panelists. Our warm welcome to you, Madam Chair. And I expect
that you and Ranking member Ernst will be working very closely
together.
This is a very bipartisan committee, so it is nice compared to
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some other committees that I sit on. We won’t mention names. But
I am certainly looking forward to what we can do together. I just
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want to mention, you know, yes, outdoor recreation activities are
really important in any community.
And as we all know, earlier this year in August, the West Maui
town of Lahaina experienced severe wildfires that leveled thou-
sands of homes and hundreds of businesses. Many of them were
small businesses.
According to the SBA, there were some 700 small businesses reg-
istered to do business in Lahaina. And the community is working
to recover, but it will be a long road ahead. And I appreciate the
outreach that I received from the members of this committee, in-
cluding the chair and the ranking member and your staffs.
I did want to mention, just as you shared your experiences, one
particular outdoor recreation business in Lahaina called West Maui
Sports and Fishing Supply to demonstrate the impact the wildfires
have had on the community there.
West Maui Sports is owned by Lopaka and Katie Wilson. Before
the wildfires, they ran the business as a hunting and fishing sup-
plies store near Lahaina Harbor in the old Lahaina Town Center.
Their business was the only sporting goods shop store in West
Maui, and it supported the outdoor recreation economy there.
Lopaka’s family is 10th generation native Hawaiian, and he was
born and raised in Lahaina, and his wife, Katie, ran the business
with them. Before the wildfires, the business was thriving. Katie
said that July 2023 was their best month so far.
Then on August 8th, the wildfires leveled the entire town of
Lahaina, including their business. For everyone—every one of their
employees besides one lost their homes in the wildfires. Because
their home in Napili was spared, they were able to house about 19
people for about a week after the wildfire.
But they are now finding it more difficult to receive Federal as-
sistance through FEMA and SBA. Right now, Lopaka and Katie
are working with YWCA Oahu, an SBA resource partner to deter-
mine how they can restructure their business so they can keep
going, and they are certainly taking it one day at a time. Like
other business owners impacted by natural disasters, they have a
long road ahead for their business to recover.
And we need to continue doing our part in Congress to make
sure that these businesses have the resources they need to con-
tinue. I—you know, I want to mention that we are facing a Govern-
ment shutdown come November 17th.
And with a shutdown will come the closure of our national parks,
etcetera. Can anybody on the panel talk about what that would
mean to your businesses if our national parks are closed?
Ms. TURNER. Sure. I can start——
Senator HIRONO. Does anybody want to start?
Ms. TURNER. Yes. Thank you for the question. So sorry to hear
about the continued impact on your communities. The Government
shutdowns we have seen in the past have significantly hurt, you
know, our public lands and waters.
And certainly, I think the Federal workforce that doesn’t have
certainty paycheck to paycheck. It is really important to mention
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that a lot of the folks who work in our parks and public lands are
GS–5, GS–7, and they are in very expensive communities.
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So, I know folks talk about them getting paid back, but some are
living paycheck to paycheck. So that is very significant that they
are not getting paid on time. And for the small business commu-
nity, like I mentioned in my testimony, we don’t get paid back. We
are shut down.
If we are an operator in a park, if we have a permit, if we are
a marina, if we are a guide and outfitter, or if we are an adjacent
business in the community that people have to go to, we are shut
down and we have to lay off workers. Sometimes we don’t get those
workers back because they go to the next thing. We also just talked
about how hard it is for us to fill the workforce gap.
So, once we have employees, we would like to keep them. And
I would say there is a lasting uncertainty that isn’t just—the
Americans, as they are planning their hard earned, you know, trips
and travel for the year, are they going to go to Yosemite or Yellow-
stone or New Hampshire, or are they going to go to Disney or, you
know, somewhere else that is more certain.
And I worry about the lasting impacts of people having to con-
tinue to cancel trips even just because the threat of a shutdown is
too much to take their family, you know, out of school, to take days
off work. So please, you know, keep the Government open.
Senator HIRONO. The rest of you agree, it would be disastrous.
I did have a question for Mr. Drummond. Apparently you have a
504 loan and that loan enabled you to expand your business. So,
how did you find out about the 504 loans, and how difficult was
it to navigate those loans? Do you have any advice for small busi-
nesses that would like to get 504 loans?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. Great question. I found out about the loan
program through a friend. And I think that, you know, that process
was pretty easy and straightforward.
You know, it helped encourage me to build—put together a busi-
ness plan to provide proper paperwork. It had me think about my
business, how it was designed and how it could be sustainable.
They are not going to want to loan you money if you are a high
risk.
But, you know, doing all the due diligence there, everything else
is pretty easy. Once I received the loan, everything was set up. You
know, part of the—I would say the shortcoming was the lack of
communication after the loan.
That the SBA has so many great resources to offer was some-
thing I found at just an outdoor community event we had hosted
by Granite Outdoor Alliance, which is our outdoor organization we
have in New Hampshire.
There was an SBA representative there that informed me about
these additional resources. And I am sure I would have stumbled
on some on my own or I might have received some more informa-
tion, but I think that in the future, applicants of these loans should
have—should be assigned some sort of level of mentorship or where
someone checks in.
Because as we all know, that having a small business is so dy-
namic and changes from year to year and we are doing so many
different roles—you know, covering so many different roles at our
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job that we are often leaving some behind that should be—could,
you know, improve our business.
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So, I will say, though, for others, for other businesses looking to
take advantage of the SBA loan program, it is dramatic what it
does. You know, adding on full time employees and giving them the
opportunity to live where we love to recreate is incredible. It is a
real honor to do that, and it is one of the joys of my job.
Senator HIRONO. I think we probably could do more to get the
word out on the kind of resources provided by SBA, and clearly
they are going to be long term in Lahaina helping the businesses
come back.
And I did just want to note one more thing that I believe you
mentioned the impact of climate change, because if the winters are
shorter then of course it has an impact on your businesses.
Not to mention that we are seeing many more dramatic climate
kinds of hurricanes and fires and all of that, so there is more that
we can do to support our businesses through all of those kinds of
challenges. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Hirono. And Mr. Drummond,
that was a great commercial for reauthorization of the SCORE Pro-
gram for mentors for small businesses, as well as this small busi-
ness development centers. So, thank you. Senator Cantwell.
Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Madam Chair. And it is great to
have you here as the chair of the committee again and with our
colleague, Senator Ernst. I hope that the two of you are very pro-
ductive in getting a lot done for small businesses.
And I love today’s subject, obviously coming from the State of
Washington, and certainly championing the outdoor industry as it
is related to the Land and Water Conservation Fund and putting
more permanency to that.
But I think the topic, the conversation here about natural disas-
ters and natural areas, right, that is where we recreate, in natural
areas, and the advent of fires and other disasters, changes just in
weather.
We had a community devastated by our border that was dev-
astated by a flood. I can name several communities devastated by
fire. So, I do think, Ms. Turner, that when we think about the SBA
and we think about how little help there is, other than access to
affordable financing, it makes me wonder what else we should be
thinking about given the amount of devastation that we have seen.
We have asked GAO for a report on how much climate impacts
are costing us as a Federal Government. Like what is it costing us
and are there better strategies on mitigation. We think things like
cross laminated timber, that is a mitigation strategy. But I also
want to ask you about the 301 tariffs and GSP, because I feel like
small business, particularly in the recreational side, are also get-
ting impacted by that.
And I wish that we had certainty and predictability. We have let
those expire. They expired two years ago, and it is still impacting
businesses. And so, I wanted to hear what you thought about those
two subjects, and are there things we should be thinking about?
And again, I am just thinking—what happens is the definition—
this isn’t this committee’s jurisdiction per se, but the definition on
when you have a natural disaster, who can get help and assistance.
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If you don’t live in a concentrated area, you don’t get the assist-
ance. And yet, I would say that these communities, whether it is,
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34
you know, Lahaina, or in our case, you know, the Winthrop area,
or the Methow, that they are rural economies, they just happen to
be in either ski or tourism or they just happen to be, you know,
small.
But I guarantee you, an entire valley economy depends on them,
and so they should get similar treatment. So, I don’t know if you
have thoughts on what else we should be doing.
Ms. TURNER. Thank you, Senator Cantwell, and thank you for all
you have done to champion the recreation economy for so many
years. You know, we think about the businesses that are com-
pletely destroyed by natural disasters, hurricanes, floods. We also
think about the businesses that are impacted. So right now, a lot
of our boat docks don’t make it to the water because of drought.
So, there is whole communities in Lake Powell and Southwest
that need—and Southeast, that need, you know, rebuilt infrastruc-
ture. So, I think there is a lot that could go there just to recreation
infrastructure seen as a small business tool.
When it comes to wildfires, the New Mexico wildfires just come
to mind because there are small businesses that were shut down
for weeks, almost months, that actually weren’t impacted by the
wildfire at all. But because they were in the terrain that wildfires
were being impacted, the Forest Service had closed the entire for-
est, so those communities got no economic impact.
And actually, those businesses weren’t able to go and get insur-
ance dollars for that because they weren’t impacted. So, I think we
need some flexibility around the insurance. And, you know, we
have talked to the agencies. I wonder if it is even maybe they don’t
have to pay their, you know, fee to the Forest Service, the Park
Service, if they are shut down for so many weeks or so many
months.
But I think there is a lot that could be done to make sure that
businesses that are closed because of climate, because of natural
disasters, have the insurance and flexibility on the back end. And
I think that goes with rebuilding infrastructure. Often recreation
infrastructure is the last thing to be rebuilt after fire, even though
it is the first thing that could help the community come back.
So how do we rebuild infrastructure. And again, I talk about the
flexibility around permitting, even seasonality. How can we expand
seasons? The seasons aren’t what they used to be. How can we ski
for longer, maybe into the spring? How can we camp for a longer,
maybe into the fall?
And so, working on flexibility. So, if there are days or weeks that
businesses are closed, they can move those days or weeks into, you
know, the other season. On GSP and 301 tariffs, you hit the nail
on the head. It is uncertainty. It is constant uncertainty. And I
think the expiration of GSP adds to what we don’t know—you
know, what is going to happen to 301 tariffs.
These are small businesses that are working off American inge-
nuity and American workforce, and whether they make a compo-
nent abroad or, you know, a bigger part of their product, they are
American businesses, and I think they deserve the certainty to
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know what is going to happen next. Thank you.
Senator CANTWELL. Thank you. Thank you very much.
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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Cantwell. I would just point
out for all of the Senators who are here, there is a second vote
started at 3.35 p.m., so if you haven’t voted the second time, be
sure to do that when you leave here. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. And
compliments on handling the new chair so ably. And compliments
to the former chair for having kept the baton moving as you passed
it.
And thank all of you for being here. This is something I have
been nuts over for a long, long time. And I wanted to ask, we will
start with Ms. Turner. Thanks to Chair Shaheen’s hard work, we
know that the recreation economy grew almost 19 percent in 2021.
I will give you all the credit, chair.
A variety of agencies, Department of the Interior, Agriculture,
Commerce, even Defense, worked together on the Federal Inter-
agency Council on Outdoor Recreation, FICOR, to coordinate the
Federal Government support for continued growth of the outdoor
rec industry.
Can you speak to how giving FICOR a permanent home, poten-
tially at a Federal Office of Outdoor Recreation at the Department
of Commerce, would improve the Federal Government—you know,
how it supports our $454 billion outdoor recreation economy?
Ms. TURNER. Sure. Thank you for the question. And thanks for
all the work on recreation. I love going to your State to recreate.
You know, FICOR being revitalized this Administration has been
so helpful for the agencies to cross their silos.
All of these agencies are facing the same challenges and have the
same great opportunities ahead of them. It is just good Govern-
ment for them to be working on them together. It also creates a
one stop shop for the recreation community to come together with
our best practices and have one place where we can talk about per-
mitting guidance or insurance differences or rebuilding infrastruc-
ture.
So, we really hope that America’s Outdoor Recreation Act will
pass and institutionalize FICOR, so it doesn’t go away in different
administrations. As to a one stop shop, you know, in the Depart-
ment of Commerce or, you know, Office for Recreation, we think
that that is really important. We cross transportation and HUD.
It would be amazing for education to be at the table learning
about, you know, how kids K through 12 or younger can get these
experiences. And so, having a home where recreation is prioritized
just as much as other things, especially because of our added value
to health and society, you know, benefits like obesity, you know,
diseases, we feel that we cross with Health and Human Services
and pretty much every Federal agency.
And so, appreciate your work on driving that home, and we
would love to see that happen someday.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Great. And I don’t want to go off and
ask you another long question, but you can just file this away.
We had—we do a great job of estimating what the economic im-
pact in small businesses, how the prevalence of rural locations for
so many of these small businesses, the influx of money and spend-
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ing into rural places that augment the, you know, sometimes the
thin margins that farmers and ranchers have to live with.
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All these are economic benefits. But we haven’t really or at least
haven’t seen anything close to accurate about estimating the med-
ical benefits. And as we look at some of the drama facing all those
baby boomers retiring and drifting into old age, we know that an
ounce of prevention is more than a pound of cure.
So, I just file that a way that maybe that is the next big push
we should all start looking at is how do we not put numbers to that
so we can talk about it more strongly. I love Ducks Unlimited, have
my whole life.
And one of the things I love about Ducks, and I love it about the
outdoor recreation industry is that it is inherently nonpartisan.
There isn’t anything Republican or Democratic about a duck, or
pheasant, for that matter. [Laughter.]
Because I know you are, you know, you have a broader span. You
are more about habitat. But give me a little—what you suggest—
I assume you think that is a good idea to keep it nonpartisan. How
do you think we could do a better job of making sure this doesn’t
slip into partisan roles?
Mr. FOX. Senator, that is a great question. I think once you end
up in a duck blind, no matter who you end up in a duck blind with,
one of the things you may never speak of in that duck blind is poli-
tics. [Laughter.]
I think you talk about the things that are around you and the
things that you appreciate.
And you know, that is how Ducks Unlimited was created in the
very beginning. I don’t know the five gentlemen’s politics that cre-
ated Ducks Unlimited, but I do know that they had a vision, and
the vision was to bring back during the Great Depression wetlands.
You know, we are going through obviously a drought right now.
It is cyclical. We will get rain again. If Ducks Unlimited could
make it rain, we would get a lot more donations. [Laughter.]
But as far as how to make it happen, it is just simply education.
And also, if you look at the things that Ducks Unlimited is known
for, that is pretty easy. Everybody comes to me and says, oh, Ducks
Unlimited, you are the hunting group. And I will tell you, in 86
years, we have never spent $1 to kill a duck.
And all the conservation work that we have done and the
groundwater and the nitrates and phosphates and everything that
we do to slow water down and purify it, communicating that to
anyone doesn’t involve politics because everyone agrees. We want
to keep what we have.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. Right. It is habitat and—if I could steal
20 seconds more, I want to ask questions of Ms. Peters and Mr.
Drummond. Although I am a huge fan of Okoboji. I have a lot of
family from Iowa, and I have been going to a place called Swan
Lake, not that far from Jackson, New Hampshire for my entire life.
We have about a dozen loons there. I do want to just throw out
that you all have this alignment of interests. That is where good
things happen in politics, where you have an alignment in self-in-
terest.
And just as you begin to fan the flames and the momentum to
get more people outside, more people to clear their minds through
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outdoor recreation, to improve their bodies, there is a wonderful
young musician named Molly Tuttle, who has a song out called Big
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37
Backyard, and you should check that out because I think the move-
ment needs an anthem.
And I have talked to her, and I think she would be willing to
have that song. She would share it, allow us to use it as an anthem
because we do want to make sure that we realize it is all of our
public lands. It is all of our big backyard. I yield back to the chair.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you, Senator Hickenlooper. And
thank you for mentioning Swan Lake and the loons. I was proud
as Governor to outlaw lead sinkers to try and protect loons, so I
appreciate your mentioning it.
Senator HICKENLOOPER. There are more loons now than there
were 10 years ago, by every measure.
The CHAIRMAN. Absolutely. Thank you. Senator Cardin.
Senator CARDIN. Well, thanks, Madam Chair. And again, let me
congratulate you on your chairmanship here. We know that you
will provide the leadership for small businesses, along with Senator
Ernst.
This is a topic that is important to all of us. In Maryland, we
have over 100,000 direct jobs from the outdoor recreation industry.
It has been estimated that 90 percent of Marylanders visited some
outdoor rec area that is managed by a Governmental entity.
So, it is an incredibly important part of our economy, and I am
going to agree with you in regards to our outdoor enthusiasts being
great conservationists. Visit Maryland, we have a great waterfowl.
We have great fishing. We have—it is an incredibly blessed State,
and the people who are active in the field are our greatest con-
servationists.
So, I thank you for that. Mr. Drummond, I would just tell you,
there is no better way to start a day than with a good cup of coffee
and fresh snow to ski, so I am envious. There are days I wish we
could switch positions for—and so, maybe you would like to come
down here. I will go out and do a little skiing one day.
But I want to ask you a question. You know, one of my major
concerns—we have been trying to work on this. Senator Ernst has
been trying to work on this, to try to make the financing more
available to smaller small businesses. Under the SBA, you could be
a small business up to 500 and get assistance.
And we find that when you go to a financial institution and you
have got three employees, and your loans are kind of small, they
are not quite as interested in you as they would be as somebody
who has 100 employees and is interested in a larger loan.
So, we have tried to provide greater opportunities within the
SBA programs for smaller small business loans. The Administra-
tion has a rule out that makes—opens up some additional financ-
ing. There is talks about direct lending by SBA.
And then in regards to resource partners, as Senator
Hickenlooper pointed out, our resource partners serve our entire
community, but they are more concentrated within the urban cen-
ter.
So, if you have a business that depends upon the recreation
areas that are in rural areas, you don’t have the same access that
you would have in other parts of the State. So, I guess my question
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to you, how do we—how can we improve the tools that are avail-
able through the Small Business Administration to help the small-
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38
er small businesses, and particularly those that may be located in
more remote locations that don’t have the same access that other
companies have?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. Thanks, Senator. It is a really great ques-
tion, because as I have learned, funding makes a huge difference
in just the success of your business, the day to day stress, anxiety
of trying to make this whole thing work.
I mean, I think my first few years, there is the excitement be-
cause there is failure—there is an opportunity for failure. But I
will tell you what, as soon as I got that loan, that anxiety dis-
appeared, and I could really focus on my business.
I could focus on finding employees. I could focus on selling the
gear and really cementing myself in the community. But, you
know, there is a gap in, I think, where the SBA is and where the
small businesses are. And that is where I think, I was mentioning
that outdoor business alliances can help communicate what the
SBA is offering.
Because without that outreach, it is going to miss all these rural
communities. There is no way that the SBA can reach out to each
one of these small businesses. So, it is really an awareness issue.
Because the process of going through the SBA loan program was
incredibly easy.
My local bank took care of everything. They were sort of the
interface and my consultants. And then all I do on my end is just
make sure there is money in the account for that draw when they
need it.
There was also opportunity like with the PPP loans that—that
was also really easy. And, but it was stuff that I wouldn’t have
known. Like I said, we are so busy running our business that we
are not out seeking necessarily financial assistance, and——
Senator CARDIN. You got the help from your local banker. Is that
where you got money?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. The local banker was aware of the SBA
program, so.
Senator CARDIN. And was this a—one of these national banks or
was it a community bank?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Community bank.
Senator CARDIN. Yes. See, I find community banks are more sen-
sitive to the local communities and know—they are invested in the
community. Again, we need all of our banks. I am not trying to be
critical.
But when you are talking about small companies, it is good to
have a bank that really understands the importance of small busi-
nesses to the quality of life and growth of a community. Ms. Tur-
ner, you want to add anything to that?
Ms. TURNER. Thank you for your focus on rural communities.
And I actually am a Marylander, so I appreciate all you do——
Senator CARDIN. Well, I didn’t know that.
Ms. TURNER. Yes.
Senator CARDIN. I would have called on you first.
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Ms. TURNER. I know. I am from Bal——
[Laughter.]
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I took the broken down MARC train today. The MARC train
broke down on the way from Baltimore, but we can deal with that
in another committee. [Laughter.]
No, I think focusing on rural businesses is really important, be-
cause just like small business loans and education around that,
there is so many other things that they could benefit from, espe-
cially around rural economic development tools for the whole com-
munity that draw more people to their businesses.
So, we would love to be a part of those future conversations. And
I would just put a plug in because Maryland has one—there are
State Offices of Outdoor Recreation in 20 States across the country,
and Maryland has a wonderful one, and that person is helping con-
nect small businesses to the recreation assets and to tools that can
provide better capital.
So, that has been a really impactful thing in Maryland.
Senator CARDIN. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator ERNST. Thank you, Senator Cardin. And next, we will
have Senator Rosen please.
Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you, Senator Ernst. And this is such
a great hearing, and I am really happy to be here, and really want
to thank you all for the work you are doing and being here today.
And I know that Senator Hickenlooper, others talking about con-
servation, and conservation of our outdoor spaces like you were
talking about. So, Nevada’s natural beauty, it really brings people
from across the country—around the world, to see our beautiful
mountains, our lakes, our deserts.
We do have mountains, lakes, deserts, snow. We have more than
just the desert, our wildlife, our public lands. We have 24 State
parks. We offer a diverse opportunity for residents and visitors to
enjoy, hiking, camping, boating, hunting, skiing, stargazing.
We have some of the darkest skies in America, as Central Ne-
vada. And of course, outdoor cultural events. And so, these fea-
tures, they don’t only bring visitors to our State, but they draw in
a lot of small businesses wanting to participate in our outdoor
recreation economy.
And so, I am going to put on my other hat. I am actually chair
in the Senate Commerce committee of the Tourism, Trade, and Ex-
port Promotion subcommittee. So, this is where the
intersectionality of my two committees comes in here. So, I under-
stand making the space for small businesses in the tourist arena
very well.
And so, to Ms. Turner, and then Mr. Fox, can you speak to the
need for investments in public land and parks infrastructure, and
how better funding for land management agencies and local com-
munity conservation efforts can support our outdoor recreation
small businesses? So. Ms. Turner, maybe you want to go first.
Ms. TURNER. Yes. Thank you for the question. Thanks for all of
your work on that other committee as well. You know, an example
is Lake Ocoee. I just talked to a business owner there, a marina
owner. They saw an investment from IRA go into marinas and
docks at the lake, and just that small investment in helping mari-
nas and docks allowed them to see a 20 percent increase in sales.
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That is a huge increase in sales for a small business. They have
about 45 employees. So, investing in recreation is no longer a nice
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to have. It is a need to have for a lot of these communities. I think
the intersection between the Travel and Tourism committee is also
in the EDA, I think.
It is definitely of utmost importance that our Federal land and
water management agencies are well funded, and that Land and
Water Conservation Fund, and the Forest Restoration Legacy
Funds are all working well, but it is also the other agencies.
Allowing EDA to use their tools for recreation. A lot of those are
traditional economies transitioning to a more sustainable economy
through recreation, and they need similar tools, and recreation
should be thought of as infrastructure.
And so, I think there is a lot of work to do with other agencies.
Senator ROSEN. Okay. Mr. Fox, do you want to go quickly? And
I got a couple more questions.
Mr. FOX. Yes, Senator. I will give you two examples. One is a big
one, and it is close to your home State, the Great Salt Lake. Great
Salt Lake just in this last year, as our biologists put it in the re-
gion, was about one year away from total ecological collapse.
So, we are working with other agencies to try and ensure ways
that we can keep the Great Salt Lake full, as full as it should be.
It has been low for a while, but there is much industry on the
Great Salt Lake besides small businesses, and there are many
small businesses and guides and things like that that benefit from
that.
But that could be echoed across all the States.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you. And I am going to move on to some-
thing in my Tourism committee. We have had, I think, nearly a
dozen hearings, and we did pass legislation to make an Assistant
Secretary of the Department of Commerce—excuse me, whose job
would be to oversee a strategy for domestic tourism because it is
so important to our economy. The top economic driver, one of the
top in every single State in this nation.
But I want to move on. We were talking about our waters, as it
were, both of you talking about it. Disaster preparedness, as we
have been in—well, we have flooding, and of course, in the West,
we have drought.
So, it is important to acknowledge the hurdles that recreational
oriented businesses are facing. The outdoor adventure companies,
the restaurants, like you said, they are heavily dependent on the
weather. I am thinking about skiing the slopes, right. Heavily de-
pendent on the weather, and climate change, severe weather
events.
And earlier this summer, we saw this at Lake Mead, our nation’s
largest reservoir by volume, where declining water levels due to
Nevada’s drought, it rendered our boat ramps unusable. It hurt vis-
itation to the lake. It crippled our nearby small businesses. I am
proud to have helped secure $32 million in Federal disaster fund-
ing to protect boat ramp access at Lake Mead.
But a long term strategy is needed for small businesses impacted
by climate related events. And so, Ms. Turner, what can we do in
Congress to better equip our small businesses for these climate re-
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lated challenges? What if there is not enough snow and too much
snow? And too much snow is never a problem, right? [Laughter.]
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41
Well, maybe. I don’t know. But you know what I mean. And so,
what can we do?
Ms. TURNER. Yes. I think climate resilient infrastructure, you
know, something that Congress can really focus on funding.
On helping small businesses, it is with, I think, loans from SBA,
and better insurance policies, and more flexibility if they can’t, you
know, run their ski trips or have their business open, you know,
because the docks don’t meet the boats, or the, you know, the boats
can’t get in the lake.
There needs to be flexibility around the fees that they are pay-
ing, especially if they are paying fees to the Federal agencies.
There needs to be flexibility around—you know, the PPP program
is a great example.
There was flexibility around seasonality so that our seasonal
businesses were able to apply. We need to institutionalize that, I
think, across a lot of programs.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you. And can I give Mr. Drummond the
last word here. So again, you are a small business, and do you
want to just talk about the impact of severe weather events that
maybe impact your business or maybe some of your friends that
you talked to that have similar types of small businesses or sea-
sonal businesses?
Mr. FOX. Yes, absolutely. Like, as you mentioned, too much snow
can be dangerous. We do have avalanches.
Senator ROSEN. That is right.
Mr. FOX. But honestly, that is kind of not our problem. You
know, we just want cold winters and normal summers. Like these
extreme weather events that come, they affect the ski conditions.
If we have these big warmups—we are so reliant on manmade
snow at the ski resorts these days, especially in New England,
that, again, it is a ton of money to run the compressors to blow the
air and blow the water to create snow artificially, and that artifi-
cial snow is incredibly rugged and can withstand some of the ex-
treme weather, but it costs a lot of money.
And we are seeing these small independent resorts, they have to
sell or close because of, you know, the shortening of the winters.
And then in the summertime, yes, we are getting all these—where
we are, we had an incredibly wet summer and that affected all the
local businesses and tourism in general. But specifically, like, no
one is going to want to go hire a guy to go take them out in some
of these weather events that we experience.
So, you are seeing it from all that—the entire outdoor industry,
rock climbing, and hiking, and yes, in the wintertime we are seeing
like it is not just lack of snow, you know, it is like the warming
and the way these rain events occur. So, it makes it difficult to get
people out skiing.
Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you. And this is where I am going
to work between both committees to try to find good solutions to
be sure that our tourist economy, whether it is rural, urban, out-
door, it makes no difference, we want to be sure that it stays ro-
bust.
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And really, America is beautiful. Some place great and wonder-
ful, 365 days a year, and every single State in this nation, and we
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42
want to be sure that people can go visit and enjoy it. Thank you,
Madam Chair.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Rosen. They are
still on the second vote, so you should be safe. Good. Let me start
with you, Mr. Fox, because just like Iowa, New Hampshire has a
strong hunting heritage.
And in fact, our largest outdoor recreation activity is hunting,
fishing, and trapping. The work that Ducks Unlimited does is im-
portant to everyone across the country. But can you also talk a lit-
tle bit about why your work, and I know you have alluded to this,
but why the conservation work that you do is so important to the
outdoor economy?
Mr. FOX. Senator, that is another great question. Conservation is
important because what we do is the destination. And we lose an
acre of wetlands in this country every six minutes. It is a battle
that we continue to fight.
If, as my colleague from New Hampshire said, if you don’t have
snow, you can’t ski. If you don’t have wetlands, a guide can’t guide,
and a hunter can’t hunt. A person who wants to go watch the polli-
nators, or watch the migration of the sandhill crane, or a million
other examples, if the water is not there, those things cease to
exist, and also the snow stops to fall.
So, that is why that is important.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. And Mr. Drummond, you talked
about the challenges with climate change and what its impact on
snowfall. One of the pieces of legislation that we are working on
right now is expanding the SNOTEL network, which I don’t—I as-
sume you know about.
For those people who don’t, it is a way to track and measure
snowpack trends. And it has been operating in the West for some
time. We are trying to make sure that we can also have it operate
in New England, so we have—or at least in the Northeast, so we
have that information too.
But can you talk about why that kind of information is helpful
to you and your business?
Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. Thank you and all the work you have done
to help push that through. Yes, these SNOTEL data collection sites
are super important for, you know, making informed decisions, pol-
icy decisions.
You know, we have no benchmark of what is normal, what is not
normal when we are collecting this precipitation data. So, we are
looking at it through—I mean, I care a lot about the snowfall, but
it is a way to be proactive in policy making because, you know,
without the science behind it, we are sort of flying blind.
We are not sure what is going on. And so, at the very least, hav-
ing this data is going to give us some insight and let the scientists
come back and hopefully help steer us in the right direction and
make some correlations.
The CHAIRMAN. You also talked a little bit about in your opening
testimony about the challenges that you had faced as a small busi-
ness with a too wet spring and not enough snow in the wintertime.
Can you talk about how you have gotten through those challenges
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and the—have the various programs of SBA, if you have made use
of those, and why those have been helpful.
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43
Mr. DRUMMOND. Floating—yes. Floating through some of these
hardships with the climate—you know, when I started this busi-
ness, it was just pivoting through all the fun things I like to do,
and that led to building a community that wants to support their
local businesses.
So, I have just been fortunate that, you know, when things aren’t
great with the skiing, maybe there is something else I can be work-
ing on, some events, and partnering with other local small busi-
nesses to get people to come out and still create—create some little
local economy to keep us afloat. You know, we don’t have a great
winter, there is the potential of a great spring. I mean, I think one
thing is, is that there is misconception of a ski season.
It is more of a snow season in the Northeast. So, you know, even
with a poor winter, we are fortunate where we are to be able to
ski into May and even June, even on some of these poor winters.
But, you know, that is where like again, the Government assist-
ance, if you don’t know about it, you know, you are not going to
be able to take advantage of it. And I think there is a ton of oppor-
tunity, again, for small businesses to kind of have that like safety
net to know that if they do need additional funding or support, that
it is out there.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, and it also speaks to the flexibility that I
think maybe you were talking about, Ms. Peters. You also, I want-
ed to go back to something you said in your testimony, Ms. Peters.
You were talking about the improvement in water clarity, which
was pretty significant and quite impressive. How did that happen?
Ms. PETERS. Thank you for the question. It happens because of
research. We study the data. We do water quality testing so that
we can see what is happening. And then once we have that data,
we can work with our local communities and our State to deter-
mine a plan of action to clean that water.
And so, working with organizations like Ducks Unlimited, we
have been able to clean up our watershed in the area. We have also
been able to work with our local municipalities so that they can put
policies in place at a local level so that the water—that the—so
that water runoff into the lake is lessened and so that there are
opportunities to clean the water, the rainwater that comes down
before it goes into the lakes.
And so, ultimately, that has helped us a lot.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. And I am going over a little bit, but
this is my final question for you, Ms. Turner. And you have ref-
erenced several times throughout, both in your testimony and in
response to questions about the importance of certainty in Govern-
ment funding.
We are facing in about two weeks another deadline for funding
the Government to keep it open. Can you talk about what you are
hearing from your small businesses about the necessity of coming
to an accommodation that keeps Government open and provides
that certainty?
Ms. TURNER. Yes. And I would just say that small businesses are
scrambling again for the second time in two months wondering
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what they are going to do to stay afloat if our public lands and
waters are closed.
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44
Looking at plans coming from the agencies, trying to see what
their plan is, what their business plan would be if they have to lay
folks off, especially coming up in the holiday season while there is
a lot of trips.
And, you know, to what Mr. Drummond has been talking about,
small businesses are spending a lot of time, effort, energy, and re-
sources planning for a shutdown that may or may not happen that
could be going to much better uses.
And I think whether or not the Government stays open, we have
lost a lot of time and energy on this over the past couple of months.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that and ap-
preciate the testimony from all of you. And it is a reminder about
how important it is that we work together and do our jobs here.
Thank you. Senator Ernst.
Senator ERNST. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I will just
revisit my Iowans as well. And you have been talking, Mr. Fox, in
your testimony about the role that small businesses can play in
those local conservation efforts, and we will come back, Ms. Peters,
to you as well on this.
But can you go into more detail about how those small business
owners are involved with conservation. Mr. Fox, can you walk us
through the process there and how important it is to have their
participation.
Mr. FOX. Senator, thank you. I want to start in reverse and go
with some second and third order effects of—from conception of
conservation to execution on the ground.
And by that, I mean that we have 100 chapters of Ducks Unlim-
ited members across the State, and they get together and they de-
cide they are going to have an event, and they have a meeting to
have that event.
They have that meeting at a small business. They have that
meeting. They have dinner. They have beverages. They plan their
meeting, and they have more meetings, and they have more. And
then they go to the hotel, or they go to the venue where that event
is going to be held.
They go to a caterer. They ask the caterer, will they cater the
event. They then have the event. And by the way, we raised $2.6
million in Iowa alone last year at the grassroots level. And with
each of those dollars, we multiply those three to five times. And in
Iowa, all that money came back for projects in Iowa.
And when I was talking to Ms. Peters earlier before this meeting,
we were talking about a particular piece of property between
Okoboji and the landfill to the Southeast, and I informed her that
Ducks Unlimited has acquired 200 acres of original prairie pothole
that remain basically undisturbed.
And when she talks about watershed and rainwater, that 200
acres will capture anything from that landfill that is headed to-
wards the lake. So, Dickinson County, where she is from, is our
Great Lakes, and we treat it as such.
Small businesses, to answer your question directly, can be any-
thing from the Casey’s where people get their gas. It can be the
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outfitter. It can be the guide. It can be the restaurants, the hotels,
the motels. There are probably a lot more examples, but I will end
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45
with the contractors who do the work on the ground, the guys who
move the dirt.
And they—we contract them, and they buy fuel, they rent equip-
ment. And I think it is probably hard for me to list every single
thing that is impacted with our small businesses, what they do for
us and what we do for them, but that is a pretty good synopsis.
Senator ERNST. Yes, I appreciate that. And it was just a few
years ago that Mr. Fox and I went out to a Ducks Unlimited
project that was in conjunction with a local community, and just
seeing the natural habitat for the waterfowl, but also that dual
purpose of also filtering the water, capturing the phosphates and
nitrates that were coming out of that water, and making it much
cleaner and much better for our environment.
So, really appreciate you sharing that project with me and the
impact to the small businesses. We had so many small business
owners that came out for that demonstration as well, so we appre-
ciate their great work. And thanks to Ducks Unlimited for spear-
heading that project.
And Ms. Peters, can you talk a little bit about that? I know we
have just heard about the landfill and the proximity to the lake.
And can you talk about the benefits that this particular Ducks Un-
limited project might bring to your community?
Ms. PETERS. It will help keep our waters clean. A few years back,
there was a railroad, a train fell over and the waste from that train
got brought to our landfill because it is a privately owned landfill.
And there was a lot of concern in the community because of where
it is located and the runoff that may happen from that into our
lakes.
And so, to have a piece of property with—between the landfill
and the lake that is being purchased so that it can continue to fil-
ter all those waters and all the runoff that is coming from there
is incredibly, incredibly important in our community.
And our community is really focused on clean water. Small busi-
ness owners, large business owners, lake community—lake organi-
zations all work together so that we can raise awareness for clean
water. We have a big festival every summer in August.
It is called the Okoboji Blue Water Festival, and it is a really fun
weekend where people can come and learn about water quality and
the different projects that are happening to make sure that our
water stays clean, not just in Okoboji, but really in all of Iowa and
beyond.
And also, they can learn how they can do their part. And I think
that is something that is really important because we can’t just
have clean water, we have got to make sure that everybody knows
what they can do so that they can make—they can add to it, and
so that they value the resources that are around them, so that they
continue to enjoy the outdoor recreational opportunities available.
Senator ERNST. Yes. Thank you. And I will mention as well, you
said in your opening statement that your population continues to
increase. Is that correct?
Ms. PETERS. That is correct. In Dickinson County, we continue
to see an increase in population.
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Senator ERNST. And you had——
Ms. PETERS. Because it is a fabulous place to live.
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Senator ERNST. Yes. [Laughter.]
And it is. And you would attribute that, though, to the outdoor
opportunities that you have in Dickinson County? I would say be-
cause Montgomery County, where I live in Southwest Iowa, we
have seen our population decrease. We don’t have the same level
of outdoor recreation activities that you do in Dickinson County.
Ms. PETERS. It is our lakes that ultimately draw people to the
area. They want to come visit. And then it is the small businesses
that keep them there. They keep them interested. They provide the
services so that people can stay and enjoy the lakes even longer.
And then, they come back the next year, and they come back the
next year, and they find that their family feels a little bit better
when they are in Okoboji. And at that point they decide, you know
what, this is a place where I want to live.
And then people move to the Iowa Great Lakes area. I grew up
in another small town in Iowa, and my entire family now lives in
Okoboji because it is just a really special place because of that out-
door recreation that we have.
Senator ERNST. Thank you. And I will give you the final word in
promoting the kite festival. And tell us when that typically occurs
and why it is so special.
Ms. PETERS. Well, we have two big kite festivals in Iowa now. So,
the first one you will find January 25th through the 28th. It is the
Okoboji Kite Festival, and the skies will be filled with over 100
huge kites over the frozen lakes of West Lake Okoboji.
And something that will be really special this year is we will
have lighted kites in the evening. So that is going to be really a
very fun thing that will take place right after the big bonfire of
Christmas trees.
And then just a few weeks later on Clear Lake, just in Central
Iowa, there is another huge kite festival, Colors of the Wind. And
so, I was really fortunate to have two great winter festivals that
take place on the ice and are just so much joy.
Senator ERNST. Again, wonderful outdoor recreation. But thank
you, Madam Chair, very much. And thank you to our witnesses.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you, Ms. Peters. You definitely
should do an ad for Okoboji, without a doubt. [Laughter.]
So, Andrew, you have got to up your game here on the Mount
Washington Valley. [Laughter.]
But seriously, thank you all so much for your testimony, for
being such articulate advocates for the outdoors, and for your com-
mitment and your advocacy.
We really appreciate it. We look forward to staying in touch and
continuing to work with you as we look at ways we can support
small businesses in the outdoor economy.
The record will stay open for two weeks for additional questions
that may be asked by members of the committee. And with that,
the committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 4:24 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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File and source
- File
- CHRG-118shrg63159.txt
- Size
- 289,797 bytes
- SHA-256
- 932ee2ac440c95bf82c5e7cb8617ed9a10d2f79763fedb69e8c126a660ef5c90
- Our copy
- CHRG-118shrg63159.txt
- Original
- No public link identified.