Help Wanted: Exploring How Alternative Paths to Student Debt Can Help to Strengthen Small Business
Summary
Hearing transcript, Help Wanted: Exploring How Alternative Paths to Student Debt Can Help to Strengthen Small Business, from April 26, 2023, before the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development of the Committee on Small Business, House of Representatives, One Hundred Eighteenth Congress. The witnesses are Patrice Lee Onwuka of the Independent Women's Forum, Meloni Raney of TEXO, The Construction Association, Bruno Schickel of Schickel Construction and Eric Elzy of the United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters. In opening comments, Chairman Molinaro says the hearing is about alternative paths to student debt, specifically career and technical education, and cites nearly 43 million Americans with student loan debt equating to over $1.7 trillion.
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“Help Wanted: Exploring How Alternative Paths to Student Debt Can Help to Strengthen Small Business.”
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[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
HELP WANTED: EXPLORING HOW ALTERNATIVE PATHS TO STUDENT DEBT CAN HELP
TO STRENGTHEN SMALL BUSINESS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION,
ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD
APRIL 26, 2023
__________
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Small Business Committee Document Number 118-010
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
51-877 WASHINGTON : 2023
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TRACEY MANN, Kansas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARC MOLINARO, New York
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
ELI CRANE, Arizona
AARON BEAN, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
NICK LALOTA, New York
NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
JUDY CHU, California
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director
Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Marc Molinaro............................................... 1
Hon. Morgan McGarvey............................................. 3
WITNESSES
Ms. Patrice Lee Onwuka, Director, Center for Economic
Opportunity, Independent Women's Forum, Winchester, VA......... 7
Mrs. Meloni Raney, President and Chief Executive Officer, TEXO,
The Construction Association, Dallas, TX....................... 9
Mr. Bruno Schickel, President, Schickel Construction, Dryden, NY. 11
Mr. Eric Elzy, Assistant Business Manager, United Association of
Plumbers and Pipefitters, Louisville, KY....................... 12
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mrs. Meloni Raney, President and Chief Executive Officer,
TEXO, The Construction Association, Dallas, TX............. 23
Ms. Patrice Lee Onwuka, Director, Center for Economic
Opportunity, Independent Women's Forum, Winchester, VA..... 29
Mr. Bruno Schickel, President, Schickel Construction, Dryden,
NY......................................................... 38
Mr. Eric Elzy, Assistant Business Manager, United Association
of Plumbers and Pipefitters, Louisville, KY................ 43
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
None.
HELP WANTED: EXPLORING HOW ALTERNATIVE PATHS TO STUDENT DEBT CAN HELP
TO STRENGTHEN SMALL BUSINESS
----------
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2023
House of Representatives,
Committee on Small Business,
Subcommittee on Innovation,
Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in
Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Marcus J.
Molinaro [chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Williams, Ellzey, Molinaro,
McGarvey, and Pappas.
[Prayer.]
Mr. WILLIAMS. All rise please for opening prayer. Heavenly
Father, God of all people, thank You for the opportunity today
to speak what we believe and ask great questions and help this
great country. We are in a position this week alone to do great
things for not only our country, our States we come from, but
the world. Be with us as we go forward. In Your name we pray,
Amen.
Chairman MOLINARO. Join us in the pledge.
ALL. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States
of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one
nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty small and justice
for all.
Chairman MOLINARO. I wanted to do that for a while. Good
morning, everyone. I would like to call the Committee on Small
Business to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized
to declare a recess of the Committee at any time. The Committee
is here today to hear testimony about alternatives paths to
student debt, specifically surrounding career and technical
education, and how it can strengthen small businesses. I thank
you all for being here to testify, and I would like to
recognize myself for some opening comments.
First, again, good morning, and thanks for joining us
today. I want to thank our witnesses for joining today. Your
time here is extremely appreciated, and I look forward to your
testimony. I am very glad to have a constituent of mine, Mr.
Bruno Schickel, the owner of Schickel Construction, as one of
our witnesses today, joining a good number of others. Mr.
Schickel, thank you for your time and traveling from Ithaca,
New York, to Washington, D.C., to share your perspective on the
various issues that our small business owners currently face.
Today, the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship,
and Workforce Development hearing will focus on several
critical issues that are holding mainstream America back.
First, there is no denying that small businesses, both in
my district and, of course, every district across this country,
are suffering from a workforce shortage crisis. As we travel
around Upstate New York--and I know my colleagues as they
travel around their districts, we continue to hear from local
businesses about how they cannot find enough people to work.
Despite offering higher wages, cash bonuses, or other
incentives, they still are unable to attract workers.
Small businesses have limited resources at their disposal
to recruit and retain the workforce they need. Every unfilled
position represents a missed opportunity for small business to
serve its local community, increase their bottom line, and grow
their operation. This shortage is often exacerbated in rural
communities, like the ones I represent.
This inability to fill jobs not only impacts storefronts on
main street, but also employers of skilled trade workers. This
includes our construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and
so many more. With a shortage of available workers, employers
are having difficulty finding qualified employees to fill open
positions due to increased competition for available workers
and having to offer higher wages to retain them.
According to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, of the top 20
occupations projected to see the biggest change in employment
over the next 10 years, the majority are in careers that
require training beyond high school, but less than a 4-year
degree. This means that millions of individuals who did not
possess a 4-year degree could have well-paid careers and obtain
the necessary skills to fill these jobs likely without needing
to step onto a college campus. This is all happening as the
cost of a traditional
4-year education continues to climb, reaching record highs.
This rise in cost of 4-year degrees have saddled nearly 43
million Americans with student loan debt equating to over $1.7
trillion. As a result, we are left to confront a massive
student debt crisis and massive workforce shortage in skilled
trades across the country.
We should be promoting alternative education paths that are
both more affordable, and oftentimes more efficient than a
typical 4-year college degree, such as registered
apprenticeship trade schools and more. In our current economic
environment, we have to think practically and encourage our
young people, in particular, to aspire to achieve success.
As a former county executive in Dutchess County, New York,
I have had firsthand experience creating training programs and
seeing the benefits that these programs provide students. Under
my tenure, we worked with various not-for-profit agencies,
community centers, and other programs to help promote youth
workforce development programs and overall worker readiness
skills. This gave students the skills they needed to go into
various professions, including skilled labor jobs.
One great alternative pathway to a 4-year degree is career
and technical education. In addition to being shorter and less
expensive than a traditional 4-year degree, CTE represents a
complete range of career fields across the entire economy and
is driven by the needs and demands of employers.
Preparing students with technical skills needed to obtain
higher paying jobs, in-demand jobs, will prove to be crucial to
bridging our nation's skills and workforce gap. And as
policymakers, we must improve our understanding of workforce
issues so we can prepare the next generation of workers and our
small businesses that rely on these workers for success.
I know today's hearing can help shape how Congress can work
to promote these vital alternate paths to education, and by
doing so, we will be working to solve our nation's workforce
shortage crisis, while promoting less expensive, but oftentimes
more successful educational opportunities.
I am very excited to have a diverse group of small business
owners, some of whom have gone through CTE and other training
programs. Today, our witnesses will have the opportunity to
share their stories, current economic and workforce challenges,
and how CTE and apprenticeship programs help them to become the
business owners they are today. And so, again, I want to thank
all of you for being here with us, and I look forward to
today's conversation. And with that, I will yield to my
distinguished Ranking Member from Kentucky, Mr. McGarvey.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. I
echo your words. And thank you for holding this vital hearing
on alternative educational paths that can develop our nation's
workforce.
As you introduced one of your constituents who is here
today, I would also like to introduce one of my constituents
here today, Mr. Erik Elzy, who is a plumber and pipefitter with
Local 502 in the great Louisville, Kentucky. And he and I have
talked about this a lot over the years. It is an honor to have
you here to share those insights with the Committee.
As we all know across this country, whether it is in New
York, whether it is in Kentucky, our nation is experiencing a
workforce shortage. Just last February, there were only 5.9
million unemployed people, and there were 9.9 million job
openings. It means even if every person unemployed went to
work, there would be 4 million job openings in this country.
Small businesses are really and truly feeling this labor
shortage as much or more than anyone else. Everywhere I go in
my district and talk to people, and I say what is the number
one concern? They say it is getting and keeping the right
people here.
As a result, I think these workforce development solutions
are key. They are what we need to help businesses find the
skilled labor they need, and will prepare Americans for a
better future. They will do it without requiring individuals to
make a substantial financial investment towards their
education. That is why it is so important that we are talking
about these other ways to get people employed, to get people
into the skilled trades for good-paying jobs where we know we
have openings.
So today, we will explore the workforce development
programs from the lens of the construction sector, where these
programs have been extremely successful in teaching people in
apprenticeship programs and getting people into the trade
trades and to work.
It is estimated that in 2023 alone, the construction
industry will have to recruit 546,000 workers on top of its
regular pace of hiring, just to keep up with the demand. And,
as we implement the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act over
the next decade, that demand for workers is only going to
continue to grow.
So whether we are talking about apprenticeships, career and
technical education, or any other workforce development
initiative, it is imperative that we look for ways to
incentivize their use and make them more attractive to new
demographics of workers.
Congress' investments in infrastructure will create more
jobs and reach far beyond the construction sector. So we need
to figure out ways to extend these programs into areas of our
economy that have not traditionally been covered by these
efforts.
Finally, and most important for this Committee, we need to
ensure that workforce development programs are accessible to
small employers because they are the ones who stand to benefit
most.
Last Congress, this Committee focused on this topic with a
series of hearings. Today's hearing and the introduction of two
bipartisan bills to improve the understanding and utilization
of vital workforce pipeline programs confirm this remains a
priority for the new majority.
I look forward to listening to the testimony of all of our
witnesses, which will help inform our current and future
efforts to build a strong pipeline of skilled workers. And I
look forward to working with my colleagues to build a stronger,
more robust workforce. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. At this point,
I would like to recognize the Chairman of the Small Business
Committee, Mr. Roger Williams from Texas, for his opening
remarks. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate it. Good
morning to all of you. We appreciate you coming here. I, too,
am a small business owner back in Texas. So we are all talking
to the choir here as we proceed to do some great things. And I
want to thank my colleague, Marc Molinaro, for holding today's
Subcommittee hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that.
And in my district in Texas and across the country, there
are far too many windows plastered with Help Wanted signs. This
has been especially challenging for many industries that
require specialized skills from workers plumbers, electricians,
and so many more. Our economy does not work without skilled
workers. And I can tell you we need welders in Texas. So send
them our way. We need them badly.
And not only are these vital trades struggling to fill open
positions, they also can't keep up with replacing retiree
workers. And for every worker entering the skilled workforce,
five are leaving. This is simply unsustainable for an economy
like ours. And there are too many young people who feel like
they have no other choice but to attend a 4-year college and
incur tens of thousands of dollars in debt. And the ones that
don't--in Texas, we have 100,000 kids every year dropping out
of school in the ninth grade. Imagine that. Because they are
losing hope. They don't think they can be a doctor, architect,
or whatever. So we need to make sure that they know there is
opportunities out there that can get them into some
opportunities to do great things.
So college, we all know, isn't for everybody. And there are
other learning avenues that can help young people pursue a
rewarding career. So we cannot address the underlying issues in
education with a one-size-fits-all strategy. And I hope today's
discussion, which I know it will, can shine a light on how
important these alternate paths of education are to both small
businesses, our nation's youth, and the future of our country.
And that is the most important thing. A check from a job is
much better than a check from the government, and we need to
fix that.
So with that, thank you, Chairman Molinaro, and I yield
back my time. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You said that
better and more brief than I did.
Mr. WILLIAMS. I can be brief as long as you were.
Chairman MOLINARO. That is right. You make up for it. Let's
begin by introducing our witnesses. It is my honor to introduce
our first, Patrice Onwuka. Ms. Onwuka is the Director of the
Center for Economic Opportunity at the Independent Women's
Forum. Leading a national women's organization that is
dedicated to developing and furthering policies that enhance
women's freedom, opportunities, and overall well-being. The
organization celebrates women's accomplishments and works to
expand opportunities for women by supporting policies that
include cutting down and burdensome federal regulations. Ms.
Onwuka has over a decade of experience working on economic,
technological, philanthropic, and criminal justice system
issues.
In addition to her work at the Independent Women's Forum,
Ms. Onwuka cohosts WMAL FM's morning show O'Connor & Company,
the leading talk radio station in the D.C. area every Friday.
Ms. Onwuka is also involved in several philanthropic
groups, including serving as a senior fellow with the Alliance
for Charitable Excellence, a project of the philanthropy
roundtable, and as Tony Blankley's fellow at the Steamboat
Institute--did I get it all.
Born in the Caribbean, Ms. Onwuka grew up in Boston after
immigrating with her family. She holds a bachelor's in
economics and political science from Tufts University, as well
as a master's in international relations from Boston College.
Her expertise and passion to furthering opportunities for women
make her an excellent voice to hear from today.
Ms. Onwuka, thank you for joining us this morning, and we
look forward to the conversation that we will have.
At this point, I would like to recognize my colleague, Mr.
Ellzey from Texas, to introduce his constituent who is
appearing before us today.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is all my honor to
introduce my first witness, Mrs. Meloni Raney. Ms. Meloni Raney
is the President and CEO of TEXO, a Texas-based construction
association.
Founded in 2009, TEXO was created to build a strong and
vibrant construction community in north and east Texas.
Comprised of over 300 Members who contribute over $15 billion
to the greater economy, TEXO is one of the largest construction
trade association in Texas and one of the largest in the
country.
Since Ms. Raney joined TEXO in 2013, she has played a key
role in growing the association where she led member programs
and service efforts until being promoted to President and CEO
in 2015. A graduate of VOU, in Oklahoma, Ms. Raney majored in
architecture and minored in construction science management.
In 2016, Ms. Raney was an honoree at 40 Under 40 in the
country for Building, Design, and Construction's National
Magazine Award. She has also been an active Member of the
Foundation for Young Women's Leadership Committee in Fort Worth
for over a decade, with a focus on STEM education.
With her extensive experience and passion for advancing the
construction industry, Ms. Raney is well-situated to provide
important insight into how we can strengthen workforce
development in America.
Ms. Raney, thank you for joining us this morning. I am
looking forward to our conversation.
Mr. Elzy, you are missing a couple of letters. I yield
back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Ellzey. And with that,
let me introduce today's third witness and a constituent of
mine, Mr. Bruno Schickel. Mr. Schickel is the president of
Schickel Construction, a small business located in Dryden, New
York. Founded in 1985, Schickel Construction has worked on over
200 residential commercial and like commercial projects in
Tompkins County, including Ithaca, New York, and at
Trumansburg, Hector, and Aurora.
Mr. Schickel employs 15 people at his company, and has well
over 30 years of experience in the construction industry. His
company works on everything from dream houses to cottage
communities and rental properties that have garnered universal
acclaim.
In addition to helming his own business, Mr. Schickel
served as president of the local Builders Association as well
as president of the New York State Builders Association, and as
national vice president of the National Association of Home
Builders.
His experience working on a diverse set of projects as well
as his passion for the construction industry makes Mr. Schickel
an excellent witness for us here today, and to hear from on the
evolving challenges facing his industry, particularly, with
workforce development.
Mr. Schickel, I appreciate you being here. Thank you for
joining us this morning. We look forward to our conversation.
And with that, let me recognize again Ranking Member Mr.
McGarvey to introduce the minority's witness for today's
hearing.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And for
Mr. Erik Elzy, there might be a few letters missing, but I know
notice the haircut's hereditary.
Our final witness today is Mr. Erik Elzy, assistant
business manager for the United Association of Plumbers,
Pipefitters, and Service Technician and Local 502 here in
Louisville, Kentucky. Originally trained through Local 502's
apprenticeship program, Mr. Elzy has been a journeyman plumber
for more than 20 years. For more than a decade, he has also
been heavily involved in educating other professionals in his
field, serving both as an instructor and as a training
coordinator where he was responsible for approximately 350
trainees.
Mr. Elzy has been appointed to the Kentucky State AFL-CIO
General Executive Board and the Kentucky Department of Housing,
Building, and Construction Advisory Committee. He also serves
as the vice president for the Greater Louisville Building and
Construction Trades Council.
Mr. Elzy is also a friend. And I have been out to his
facility, watched the respect he has and on the people he has
trained and people whose lives he has changed. He does an
amazing job in what he does for his field and our community.
And I am so proud to have him representing our hometown and
Local 502 here in Washington, D.C.
Thank you for being here, Mr. Elzy, and I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. I just remind my colleagues not to call
into question the follicly-challenged. I am just saying,
regardless of last names.
So we appreciate you all being here. Thanks, Mr. McGarvey.
Before recognizing the other witnesses for your testimony,
I just want to remind you that your oral testimony is
restricted to 5 minutes in length. There will be a little red
light in front of you. And when that light clicks on, if you
would not mind concluding your comments and beginning to wrap
up. Otherwise, they have given me a modestly-sized gavel to
make use of only if necessary. And with that, I now recognize
Ms. Onwuka for her 5-minute opening remarks. Thank you.
STATEMENTS OF PATRICE LEE ONWUKA, DIRECTOR, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S
FORUM, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY; MELONI RANEY, PRESIDENT
AND CEO, TEXO, THE CONSTRUCTION ASSOCIATION; BRUNO SCHICKEL,
PRESIDENT, SCHICKEL CONSTRUCTION; ERIK ELZY, ASSISTANT BUSINESS
MANAGER, UNITED ASSOCIATION OF PLUMBERS AND PIPEFITTERS.
STATEMENT OF PATRICE LEE ONWUKA
Ms. ONWUKA. Thank you so much, Chairman. Thank you, Ranking
Member, and the Committee Members who are here. My name is
Patrice Onwuka, and I am the director of the Center for
Economic Opportunity at Independent Women's Forum.
You know, we advocate for policies that enhance people's
freedoms and opportunities, as well as their well-being as the
Chairman mentioned. So I will give you a broad picture of where
we are in the economy when it comes to labor force challenges.
Today, more Americans hold a college degree than ever
before. However, fewer students are coming from lower-, middle-
, and working-class backgrounds. Both younger and older adults
feel the pressure to pursue higher education, and unfortunately
are accumulating high debt to fund it. However, employers and
workers increasingly question the value of degrees in terms of
the costs and workforce preparedness. Some 70 million workers
actually don't possess a college degree at all, and their labor
force outcomes are being challenged right now.
Now, we have a pandemic labor market that is beginning to
ease, but employers are still grappling with widespread, long-
term labor shortages, driven by cultural and demographic
changes that as well as well-intentioned policies that have
limited opportunities. So I will explain a little bit further.
Now, as we have heard today, American businesses are facing
an unprecedented challenge, stemming from labor shortages. We
have got 9.9 million open positions, 5.8 million unemployed
Americans, there is a mismatch there. Labor force
participation, interestingly, is below prepandemic levels and
below pre-Great Recession levels. So people are falling out of
the labor force. This is stunting economic growth for small
businesses.
According to the National Federation of Independent
Business, 1 in 3 small business owners has openings for skilled
workers, and 1 in 5 has openings for unskilled workers.
The national implications are very obvious: Productivity,
growth, supply chain, all of these interrelated factors are
affected by this labor shortage. However, we see these labor
shortages more pronounced in some industries more than others.
The skill, the technical occupations, these are middle-scale
jobs that deliver middle-scale and middle-class opportunities
and lifestyles. And very often, they don't require a college
degree necessarily.
You will hear from my colleagues on the panel who are
immersed day-to-day in the construction industry, for example,
where there is a half a million gap of workers. But as I
researched, it is not limited just to the trades. All of these
industries across the economy are suffering.
So how did we get here? Well, I will posit three different
forces: Number one, the every-kid-to-college movement. This
education evolution imagined a fully college-educated
workforce. But this is a one-size-fits-all approach that
doesn't take into consequence the unintended consequences. It
stigmatized the trades, directed students away from entry-level
careers in industries that can actually deliver middle-class
lifestyles with ample opportunities and entrepreneurship's
potential, which a lot of young people love without the debt.
The cost of college became untethered from the value of the
degrees, and unfortunately we have got to acknowledge this.
Government-subsidized student loans are fueling this increase
in college cost today.
Number two, we have heard a little bit about the
retirements. About 10,000 baby boomers reach retirement age
every day in the United States. According to the Census Bureau,
by 2030, the entire generation will have retired. Potentially.
But this creates opportunities, obviously. It also creates a
loss of knowledge and experience.
And then the third big force: Degree inflation. This is the
proliferation of degree requirements for jobs that didn't have
those requirements before. Very often, employers routinely use
college degrees to screen out applicants.
According to Harvard Business School, 61 percent of
employers polled rejected applicants who had relevant skills
and experience because they didn't have a degree. Talk about a
barrier to opportunity. Men have been hurt by degree inflation,
and Blacks and Hispanics, people who don't necessarily have
high college graduation rates, also suffer.
Employers, though, pay the price as well. Middle-scale jobs
that are difficult to fill, feeding this worker shortage, and
wage-inflation drives up the cost for business because you have
to spend more to attract high-degree earners.
Unfortunately, a degree is not also or always a signal of
the soft skills that you may be looking for. So what can we do?
With my last 39 seconds, I have got some policy solutions, but
I will just name them.
Number one, we have got to fight degree inflation. And this
is already underway, but there are opportunities for Congress
and lawmakers at every level to participate, on a bipartisan
force.
Number two, reform excessive credentialing. Credentialing
can be great. It can be a great alternative, but it can also be
a barrier to opportunity. Again, there is bipartisan agreement
there.
And number three, protecting independent contracting. Many
young people want to be their own small business owners. They
should be allowed to do so. And there are ways for Congress as
well as States to protect that. Government policies can be
well-intended, but they can create barriers to opportunity. And
that is where we want to stop that. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you for that very much.
And with that I would like to recognize Ms. Raney for her
5-minute remarks.
STATEMENT OF MELONI RANEY
Mrs. RANEY. Chairman Molinaro, Ranking Member McGarvey, and
Members of the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship,
and Workforce Development. Thank you for inviting me to testify
on the importance of a well-trained workforce for the
construction industry and the value of a career in the
industry.
My name is Meloni Raney. I have spent my career in the
construction industry, beginning as an architect, and now as
president and CEO of TEXO, the largest commercial contractors
association in Texas, representing construction member
companies that do more than $14 billion of work annually in the
Dallas-Fort Worth region.
I am testifying on behalf of the Associated General
Contractors of America, AGC, the leading association in the
construction industry representing more than 27,000 firms.
The country is experiencing the greatest labor shortage in
generations, with acute shortages in the construction industry.
The good news is the industry is making great investments and
local workforce development, and Congress can help. Recent
federal infrastructure investments in combination with expected
private sector investments will provide many future workers
with good-paying jobs and long careers, if we can find a way to
encourage more people to pursue construction careers.
Congress can help put more high school and college
graduates into high-paying construction careers by increasing
funding and local flexibility. Doing so will not only provide
essential construction skills, but also serve as valuable
recruiting tools by signaling to students and young adults that
construction is a career path worth considering. By giving
construction the starring role in rebuilding the economy, a new
generation of workers can be brought into the construction
trades for careers where they can economically advance and
prosper.
According to an AGC Autodesk 2022 Workforce Survey,
construction workforce shortages risk undermining
infrastructure projects as most contractors struggle to fill
open positions. According to the JOLT Survey from the Bureau of
Labor Statistics, contractors wanted to hire more than twice as
many workers as they were able to hire. In Texas, the industry
struggles to fill positions for record-sized projects. The
reason firms have difficulty finding workers, even though
hourly pay in construction averages 19 percent or more than the
overall private sector is the country has essentially
dismantled the once robust pipeline for recruiting and
preparing new construction workers.
In Texas, TEXO has prioritized recruiting workers to the
construction industry and providing a skilled workforce. The
multifaceted tactics include workforce development initiatives
and craft-training programs.
The TEXO Foundation is active in Dallas-Fort Worth area
schools connecting students to the industry, and much of its
success is due to involvement of employers. The Construction
Education Foundation, the craft training arm of TEXO, has over
2,600 students enrolled in training programs with 140
participating employers across eight trades.
The earn-and-learn model offers graduates a recognized
credential that certifies proficiency in one of eight trades.
The participants are paid by an employer. Employers gain access
to a skilled talent pool that improves productivity and reduces
turnover. Meanwhile, new workers learn valuable and portable
skills without having to accumulate college debt. Instead,
employers bear much of the cost for training. This is a very
different model than our current approach to collegiate
education where students bear most of the cost regardless of
employment prospects.
Federal officials are spending far more to encourage new
workers to go to college instead of pursuing rewarding careers
in construction. For every dollar the federal government spends
urging students to enroll in college and enter the service
sector, it invests 20 cents in career and technical education.
This higher education bias is doing a disservice to our
nation's youth by encouraging a massive accumulation of debt
that doesn't often lead to a career in their field of study.
CTE programs are among the most valuable education
programs. However, programs are expensive to administer and
fund with cost-intensive classrooms, and equipment and quality
instructors in short supply.
Finally, recent major infrastructure investments from
Congress, such as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act,
the Inflation Reduction Act, and the CHIPS Act, are intended to
address many documented needs. However, some other programs are
imposing workforce requirements that further limit the ability
of construction contractors to perform their work.
Imposing arbitrary workforce requirements that further
narrow the pools of workers that qualify to work on federal
infrastructure projects will only make it harder, longer, and
costlier for these projects to be built.
Thank you again for inviting AGC to testify before the
Committee today, and I look forward to answering any questions
you have.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mrs. Raney.
And now, Mr. Schickel, for 5 minutes opening comments.
STATEMENT OF BRUNO SCHICKEL
Mr. SCHICKEL. Good morning. I am an owner of a small
business in the Ithaca, New York, area. My company, Schickel
Construction, specializes in residential and light commercial
work.
Now, I am the first person in my family in many generations
to have not gone to college. Being the ninth child of 13
children, I think my parents were relieved when I decided to
take a different path, given the financial burdens of college
tuition. I would like to say that going to college is not the
only way to get an education, it just happens to be the easier
way, but the more expensive way.
I attended shop class in high school, and I built a lot of
great furniture then. I wanted to make things. I did not want
to go to college. After high school, I joined the carpenters'
union and did residential construction for a while. Then over
the next 10 years, I worked for a variety of different
companies in on-the-job training.
At 28, I decided that I was ready to go out on my own, and
I started my own company in 1984, and I have consistently
employed 10 to 15 people for the past 39 years.
Recently, I polled my employees to see how many went to
shop class in high school. Sixty percent of them did. Hands-on
and on-the-job training is how I learned the construction
industry. I would like to say that anybody can learn how to
build a house, hands-on, but not everybody can easily learn how
to run a business.
I learned how to run a business by attending the annual
International Builders' Show sponsored by NAHB, or the National
Association of Home Builders. Every year, I would take part in
their seminars that they had to offer.
There is little difference between the unemployment rate of
workers that get a college degree and workers that don't, but
there is a big difference in their debt burden. This debt
burden sets young people back decades in terms of their
economic security.
Now, if you go back to the mid-eighties, early eighties, I
was hiring for a construction company, and we had workers lined
up out the door, literally, looking for work. Fast forward to
2008 and 2009, that recession, I was lucky if I would get one
or two applicants a week. Now the situation currently is
literally nobody will apply. And sometimes I just simply give
up altogether and just stop trying.
In my mind, we have a short-term problem and we have a
long-term problem. The short-term problem is we are facing a
historic labor shortage right now. Everyone reports the same
problem. There is nobody to hire. Just think about how much
more our economy could be expanding and growing if businesses
could hire the people they need. I know my business,
personally, could increase 20 or 30 percent, easily.
The National Association of Home Builders estimated the
next 2 years, we are short 2.2 million jobs. And without those,
a million homes won't be built. Currently, this country has an
unprecedented number of jobs going unfilled. At the same time,
we have an unprecedented number of people not working and
collecting government benefits. Clearly, something is seriously
out of whack.
The long-term problem, over the past 50 years, the
workforce balance has shifted. Few people want to make things
now. Too much emphasis has been put on attending college and
too little on the rewards of jobs in the trades. Resources for
vocational training and technical training have declined. Many
schools stop offering shop classes altogether. The vocational
tract has become the poor cousin of the college tract. We need
to restore some balance.
I would say that hands-on and on-the-job training is a good
place to start. Let's bring back shop class to high schools.
Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Schickel.
And now for 5 minutes, the other Mr. Elzy.
STATEMENT OF ERIK ELZY
Mr. ELZY. Good morning, Committee Members. Thank you to
honor of speaking before you today. My name is Erik Elzy, and I
am a proud 26-year Member of the United Association of
Plumbers, Pipefitters, and HVACR Service Technicians, Local 502
in, Louisville, Kentucky. I have held various positions in my
local union, including apprentice plumber, journeyman plumber,
general foreman, superintendent, apprentice instructor,
training coordinator for Local 502's training center,
instructor nationally for the United Association, And business
representative, the job I currently hold.
I am here today to speak to you on the importance of
apprenticeships in the construction industry, especially the
industry that I represent.
My experience started in 1997, as a registered apprentice.
I worked under the tutelage of many passionate, educated
plumbers and plumbing instructors for 5 years until I met the
requirements to graduate in 2002. The passion these Members
have shown me led me to return the passion to young men and
women currently making up Local 502's membership as an
apprentice instructor, and as a training coordinator so that I
could have a hands-on experience in their education. Some of
these Members are still my mentors today, and I am forever
indebted to them for the education they provided to me when I
was a young man.
I have been appointed to several boards representing Local
502 in the State of Kentucky, either by business manager or
Governor Andy Beshear. Some of these being Greater Louisville
Building and Construction Trades Council vice president,
Kentucky State AFL-CIO Executive Board Member, the Department
of Housing, Buildings, and Construction Advisory Committee.
And I can assure you that among other topics covered in
these meetings or these committees, the conversation always
seems to always find its way to worker shortages in the State
of Kentucky. We bounce ideas around the room on how each
organization is planning on making sure manpower requests are
met now and in the future, which always includes
apprenticeships.
Apprenticeships are required to register with the state in
which they are located as well as the Department of Labor. Thus
having them prove how money is spent, retention rates, provide
curriculums for approval, among other things. This helps ensure
that registered apprenticeships meet required levels of
quality, and that Members' contributions, or in some cases,
federal and state grants are used responsibly.
With my experience as an apprenticeship instructor and
training coordinator locally, I have personally witnessed how
valuable the education provided to our apprentices shows versus
when someone who has taken a 6-week course to pass a license
exam or someone who has some field education, but that is all
they have shines through.
Most union apprenticeships have earn-while-you-learn
programs. This allows the apprentice to take classroom,
workshop learning, and translate it into their field of work
and vice versa. This is also a great way to learn for someone
who is more of a hands-on learner all while maintaining full-
time employment and benefits to provide for themselves, and if
applicable, to their families.
Apprenticeships have proven to be very beneficial to
businesses, both large and small. Larger businesses, in some
cases, are capable of developing in-house apprenticeships.
While smaller businesses may not be able to afford this type of
training on their own.
In the case of Local 502, we partner with contractors that
have anywhere from 350 Local 502 Members down to just two
Members. We are able to help all contractors, notwithstanding
their size, following one guiding principle: We train
apprentices to perform a job skill, not a job skill for a
certain type of contractor.
Some smaller businesses in years past have been intimidated
to approach unions with a fear of cost of becoming a union
contractor. In recent years, Local 502 has seen a rise in
smaller contractors become a signatory to us. This is from the
education that they are receiving at our apprenticeship. We
offer a class to every Member on starting a new business and
how Local 502 can assist in the financial burden of someone
just starting out. Since implementing this class, we have had
several Members take this class and have had five new Members
start businesses.
Recently, Congress enacted legislation regarding
infrastructure. This one bill will require hundreds of
thousands of qualified workers for the foreseeable future. One
way Congress can help with this shortage, I believe, is to help
promote apprenticeships in the workforce as a career choice the
same way a 4-year degree is promoted.
In my profession, people have chosen to become a plumber,
pipefitter, or HVACR Service Technician. No different than
choosing to become a doctor or a lawyer. The education is
different, but not less important. In fact, in our opinions,
the education is more important to the health and safety of
Americans.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.
It has truly been my honor and privilege.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Elzy. We appreciate you
all being here with us today. At this point, we will move on to
Members' questions. And I would have like to yield myself 5
minutes to begin.
Mr. Schickel, I want you to dive a little bit deeper into
rural America and upstate New York. Could you speak to a degree
about the specific challenges you face in recruiting and
finding applicants for work?
Mr. SCHICKEL. Thank you. I think the biggest problem right
now is that nobody is applying. It is a very vexing situation.
Not literally nobody is applying, but figuratively it is. I
have hired a couple of people recently that, you know, over
maybe 3 or 4 months, some people did come forward. And I
offered them a job, and they never showed up. They literally
never showed up for work. Never called and never contacted. I
am not sure why that is. I think the balance is just out of
whack. And I don't know why that is, but thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. So let's dive a little bit. What,
specifically, though, do you think is keeping folks from coming
to work? You know to be--with some detail, what are you hearing
in certainly your area of the industry?
Mr. SCHICKEL. You know, it is a vexing question because
there--I think the assumption is that they are being well-
rewarded. The incentives not to work are so great or too
generous that the alternative of working is not attractive
enough. That is what I hear.
Chairman MOLINARO. And you can say it. In our State, there
are government supports that are discouraging people to reenter
the workforce.
Mr. SCHICKEL. Without question. Without question.
Chairman MOLINARO. Okay. Other than perhaps using those
tools to incentivize work, what could government's role be to
get folks back, at least, again, rural New York in your line of
work?
Mr. SCHICKEL. I think people have to understand that
careers in the trades are a very noble and good profession, and
they pay well. And I think it is a promotional thing. I think
that so much emphasis has been put on getting a college
education. So many resources are committed to that, and not
enough is put on hands-on work and making things. And I think
that balance just has to be changed. And that is the long-term
goal or long-term challenge. And then the short-term challenge
is getting people to step forward.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you. These are good actually a
segue for me to ask Ms. Raney a question. I often say my step
dad's a brilliant mathematician. A brilliant mathematician, so
long as he is under the hood of a car. And test-taking and the
challenge certainly in public school--I should probably say
Skip Van Anden (ph) was--is and remains a great mechanic. My
dad doesn't often get in the Congressional Record anyway, so I
should probably acknowledge that.
But the challenge from high school and test-taking and so
on was overwhelming. And, ultimately, you know I will say, in
his day, and now, and certainly today, the demand to only learn
a certain way, to be educated a certain way is demoralizing.
What your efforts through the TEXO High School Outreach
Committee, I think is an important sort of connection in
creating that pipeline.
Can you talk a little bit about what the Committee does and
how you might inspire young people to actually move down this
path.
Mrs. RANEY. I can. I think that is what is so exciting
about what we are doing is we are taking people who have
incredible careers in construction, and we are putting them in
front of these high school students who are--they are studying
CTE, but they actually don't know how to get into the industry.
So there is a disconnect between you are studying CTE in high
school, but you don't know how to go into the industry, and you
don't necessarily know--there is a perception issue with
construction, it is your last resort. So if you fail at
everything else, then you can get into construction.
And so, we are putting people in front of them to change
that perception and give them hope that this is a bright career
for you. We show them the salary ranges. We show them people
who have progressed through the trades. We put people in front
of them that look like them, so that they know construction is
open to anybody. And so, we are giving them hope by getting in
front of them early. We start in middle school, and then we are
with them all along the high school journey, and we are
bringing them into the industry.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you for that. I just think the
one-size-fits-all education structure is not only depleting the
workforce, it is demoralizing some of our brightest minds. I am
grateful for the work that you do. With that, my time has
expired. I will recognize Ranking Member McGarvey for your 5
minutes.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will start off
with a point of agreement where we shouldn't have the one-size-
fits-all model. I think that is what we are doing here.
And, Mr. Schickel, I really appreciate what you said about
showing that the trades are a noble career. And I want to
stress that. What we are highlighting here today is it is not
just a job, it is a career in the trades where you can learn to
do something, make something, really contribute to our society,
and provide a good life for you and your family.
Mr. Elzy, I appreciate you being here today, for being such
a mentor and teacher in the trades and our community. We know
that apprenticeships offer an effective model of workforce
development, especially in the construction industry, where you
do have to have that hands-on training, Mr. Schickel.
Mr. Elzy, can you explain why these apprenticeships are so
widely used in the construction industry and why
apprenticeships outmatch other forms of training?
Mr. ELZY. Thank you. I think that when, in my situation,
again, we employ plumbers, pipefitters, HVACR service
technicians. So our contractors, when they call us and want--
are looking for someone--they can call for a specialty--I want
a plumber, apprentice, first-year, 2nd-year, 3rd-year, 4th-
year, 5th-year. Whatever year you want, that is what we are
going to send you. We are going to send you that type of an
apprentice in whatever trade that you are looking for.
And I would like to also say, referring back to what she
down at the end said, I mean, you know, it is hard to reach
these young kids, too, and make them understand how to get into
a field. So, you know, we are doing a lot of outreach in these
schools now, you know, in the high school level with our
coordinators, and showing them what it is like to be plumber, a
pipefitter, an HVACR service technician, and where they can go
with it.
Mr. MCGARVEY. And you mentioned businesses calling you
asking for a certain thing. Well, one of the things you talked
about in your testimony was sometimes hesitancy of smaller
contractors to use union labor. But that recently, you have
seen an uptick in some of these contractors saying that they
want to become a union. Can you elaborate on that a little bit
about the value of apprenticeships from the employer
perspective and how that is helping with the unions?
Mr. ELZY. Yeah, like the smaller contractors. Like I said
in my testimony, in the years past, smaller contractors were
very leery of saying I want to be a union contractor for the
simple cost of the fringe benefit package with the wages also.
And it scared them away thinking that there is another cost
attached to it just to say I am a union contractor. Well, there
is not a cost attached to that. You know, but in order to pay
the wages in the fringe benefit packages, that does come at a
cost. But you are getting a more well-trained individual, and
you can always have someone when you need someone.
So what we have done is we have what is called a market
recovery fund that our Members have decided to start in order
to grow our local and our market share in our area. So if a
Member decides--or not just a Member, any small contractor in
our area decides, Hey, I want to be a union contractor, they
come in, sit down and talk to us, and we say, Hey, we can help
you for the first 6 months to a year with your fringe benefits
with this market recovery fund, and we will help you get your
feet on the ground and get some money established for yourself
before you--we don't want to see you fail. We want to see you
succeed and stay a union contractor for the next 100 years.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Your story is very compelling, too. You
decided to pursue a career in the trades and turned down a
scholarship to go to college. What made you change course, and
how has pursuing apprenticeship helped your professionally? And
I guess, you know, in the last couple of minutes, what advice
do you have for young people considering joining an
apprenticeship program?
Mr. ELZY. I would say, I did go to college. I was on a
baseball scholarship. And it did not take me long to understand
that I was not a college student, I was a baseball player. And
you can't do both. I mean, you have to do both at the same
time. You can't pick one. You got to do both. So my grades were
not good enough. My baseball coach said, Hey, you are not going
to be able to keep your scholarship. And I was from a family
that--God bless my dad. You know, he worked hard, but he didn't
make a good living, and he couldn't afford to send me to school
anymore. So I had to come back and get a job. And I was
actually found on a softball field. As a college baseball
playing slow pitch softball, you know, you are found pretty
easily.
So I was picked up by the union team, and the union team
said, Hey, would you like to be a preapprentice. And I didn't
know what that was. They handed me a packet. They said take it
home and talk to your parents about it. I am a 19-year-old kid.
I went home and showed it to my dad. My dad told me I was an
idiot if I didn't take advantage of this.
So 26 years later, here I am. And it has been great to me
because in my younger years as I talked about my mentors, you
know, as a 19-, 20-, 21-, 22-year-old kid, I didn't care about
a retirement. I didn't care about health benefits. But 26 years
later, I have a pension that is going to provide for me and my
wife. When I retire, I am going to be eligible to retire at the
age of 57. I mean, you can't hardly say that anymore in this
day and age.
So this union, my education has provided very well for me
and my family for the last 26 years. And I am proud to say that
I am from that.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Elzy. I appreciate
your testimony. And like you stood out on the softball field,
this is a bipartisan Committee, but we have a partisan event on
June 14, which is a congressional baseball game. If you still
have any eligibility left, we can get you in.
Mr. WILLIAMS. It is hardball.
Mr. MCGARVEY. That is right. It is the hardball. I yield
back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. It is hardball,
and we also cannot recruit from the Committee. I think it is in
Ethics.
Mr. MCGARVEY. Okay. I thought I would try.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, though. A very good effort.
And with that, I would like to recognize Mr. Ellzey from Texas
for 5 minutes.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for
being here today. I love having my staff prepare all these
questions. And as I hear the conversation, I love where we end
up going. And this whole generation that we are talking about
you guys are trying to find to fill these jobs, there are a
number of issues that have occurred over the last 5 years that
have led to a decline in our workforce, and everybody is
struggling from it. When I go try to find folks to apply to the
military academies, we can't find them, to enlist in the
military, to become first responders, to--any number of trades.
And if we are going to talk about fathers, I would like to say
my father-in-law, Bob Hoback, is a master builder as well. So
he is now in the register. So he is proud. But it is really to
find these people.
And then COVID really kind of upset the apple cart, and
then video games did, too, and whatever they are doing online,
and the monitorization of the internet has made it difficult
for you to find that 18- to 22-year-old who you need right now.
They are going to probably stay with that path for the rest of
their lives.
But it also occurs to me that we have a guidance counselor
problem, I think, nationwide. It doesn't matter what region you
are in, guidance counselors need to be finding these kids in
school and say, you know what, do you want to go to college?
Well, yes, I do. Or, no, I don't. Well, in case you don't, here
he is where you need to be going.
But to your point about wood shop, I think it was you that
mentioned wood shop. Yeah, we need that stuff back in junior
high and show the people working with your hands and having a
career for your whole life is extremely important. So I will
get to the questions now. So everything is a struggle to find
folks.
Mrs. Raney, are you finding a light at the end of tunnel
after we have come out of COVID, moneys are starting to be
pulled back, and people are kind of looking around trying to
find a job. Are we seeing a light at the end of the tunnel? And
if not, when do you think we will see that?
Mrs. RANEY. I think we are seeing glimmers of light. We
have pockets of huge success stories coming from schools. If we
are active in the schools and we build relationships with these
students for 4 years, they were coming into our industry. So I
can tell you success--Congressman Williams talk about needing
welders in the State. We have a school that sends us about 25
welders every single year. They graduate, and they come into
our industry. But that is a very specific school that we are
targeted, and we are in partnership with for 4 years to get
those graduates. So we are seeing glimmers. What we have to do
is make it a scalable approach. DFW has 8 million people in our
metroplex. It is a massive--there is massive schools that we
have to go find. So making that scalable is what we have to do
and continue to educate those counselors so that they are
pushing people into our programs.
Mr. ELLZEY. But you are starting to see it get better.
Mrs. RANEY. We are.
Mr. ELLZEY. Ms. Onwuka, what policy change do you believe
would have the most significant impact on fixing this labor
force shortage?
Ms. ONWUKA. Where do I begin?
Mr. ELLZEY. You have got 30 seconds to solve the whole
world's problems.
Ms. ONWUKA. I know. I mean, I think, number one, related to
what we are talking about here which is just the pushback
between the every-kid-to-college movement. Part of the reason
why guidance counselors have been pushing kids to college is
because there has been some financial incentives, and there is
this idea that schools want to have a college graduation rate
or a college participation rate for their high school students
going to college. And so, there is some financial incentivize
there. There is also just this idea that we were sending lots
of kids to college. That is changing. And I think because we
have $1.7 trillion in student loan debt, younger people are
recognizing that they don't want to go down the path that I as
a millennial did and incur a lot of debt.
And so, what can we do? I talked about fighting degree
inflation. Absolutely. Private employers are getting rid of
their degree requirements for positions that they don't need to
see--that they don't need that. It has preceded the pandemic
and accelerated during the pandemic, which is great.
Policymakers, state-level and federal, have an opportunity to
look and take an audit of every single open position and decide
does this actually need a degree? Can this job be done without
that? We are seeing in States like Maryland--I believe it is
Utah and one other State where those governors decided we are
going to eliminate all degree requirements.
That opens up jobs for people who may have years of
experience in the workforce, but have been locked out of those
positions. So that is one way of attacking this problem.
Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I yield
back. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Ellzey.
With that, I would like to recognize Mr. Pappas from New
Hampshire for 5 minutes.
Mr. PAPPAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I thank
our panel for their contributions for the discussion here
today. I think this is the most important conversation
happening here on the Hill here today. And I see this all
across my district. I was at a steel fabricator not too long
ago in Cambian, New Hampshire, Atlantic Bridge and Engineering.
And they are obviously looking for workers. They are utilizing
every square inch of their facility as they seek to scale up to
meet the demand with respect to major public works, projects,
and a construction boom that we are seeing in southern New
Hampshire and the greater Boston area. But that is good news,
but it presents a serious challenge to this company to be able
to compete.
One thing I wanted to ask Mrs. Raney about is a career in
technical education. You talked a little bit about building
pipelines, which are crucially important, that partnership
between the private sector and CTE programs is necessary to be
able to highlight the opportunities that are out there to young
people. But, of course, our CTE programs need funding, they
need modern equipment, they need adequate instruction to be
able to facilitate the kind of change that we need to see in
this country.
So can you talk about a successful model in terms of a
career in technical education program, and the kind of
partnership with the private sector that is necessary?
Mrs. RANEY. Yeah, I think you actually just hit on one of
the biggest challenges we have is when these students--in the
State of Texas in 8th grade, you have to choose whether you are
going to go the CTE route in high school or a college-bound
rate in high school. So if you choose the CTE program, you
choose a specific thing you are going to study. So the
construction labs are very expensive because the equipment is
expensive. And then finding instructors, because the industry
is hiring all of the instructors right now.
So when we go in and partner with a school and supply the
equipment, and we help them find instructors, and we are
physically in the classroom at least once a week or, you know,
once every couple of weeks, that is a partnership. And so, when
those students graduate, we are finding success. And then
working at the firms that are in those classrooms. So to us, it
is a partnership where the industry is physically recruiting
middle school and high school students and changing that
perception of what it is like to be in construction, and then
they are hired out of high school to join the apprenticeship
training program. So there are pockets of success stories we
are seeing all across DFW.
Mr. PAPPAS. Yeah, well, thanks for those thoughts. And, Mr.
Elzy, I appreciate your presence here. And I think you did a
great job highlighting registered apprenticeship programs. And
I have gotten to know some in my district. I have met people
who are changing career paths mid-career. I met a woman who was
a paraprofessional; had trouble paying her bills. She was
working in the school system, but she got trained up as a union
carpenter and is looking forward to a great lifetime in that
industry.
So I am wondering if you can talk a little bit about some
of the barriers that people might face to access these
programs. I know a lot has been said about why people are on
the sidelines for workforce. I know, based on my conversations,
that it is a number of things that come into play. But how can
we open up more of these opportunities to folks who are either
just starting out or mid-career or are looking for a chance to
get ahead and stay ahead?
Mr. ELZY. I know that Congress doesn't promote, you know,
4-year schools, colleges, and trade schools, but just a
promotion. In our area, what we are trying do is we are
spending lots of money advertising in our city. And Congressman
McGarvey can probably say, you can't drive anywhere in the city
of Louisville without seeing a billboard that says Local 502,
or a commercial on television, or a commercial on the radio
that says Local 502. And, again, like you said, that is just
some people say, Well, what is Local 502?
So it is hard. It is a very difficult task to reach these
young people because for so long, they have been told the 4-
year degree is the way to go. So we are in a process, I think,
of--the vocational school is coming back around. And, you know,
while it is coming back around, these organizations like us
need to take advantage of being able to go and visit these
schools, set up to these schools, and get rid of the barriers,
and make these kids understand that this is a good living, good
pay, good benefits. So the barriers--I guess what you are
trying to get me to answer is, you know, the barriers are
there, and I don't really know the answer other than to
continue to put it in front of their face. To continue to say,
This is a good living. Just because you are working in the heat
and the cold, and you are hot and sweaty and you are dirty
doesn't mean it is not honorable, and you cannot provide for
your families. Because I am a testament that that is wrong. I
used to be the dirty guy that came home and played with my
children in the yard with dirty clothes on.
Mr. PAPPAS. Well, I think that is important then. Look,
there are a number of things we have to address as we build
capacity and skills in our workforce, including immigration,
including the addiction of mental health crisis that we are
experiencing in this country. But we also need to continue to
work together on this mindset shift. There is no one right
path. And there are great careers out there in the trades. And
so by working together and highlighting those opportunities and
making sure we are getting to kids early is a great way to do
it. So thanks for your thoughts here today. I yield back.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, sir. And with that, I would
have like to recognize Chairman Williams for 5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is great panel.
I appreciate all of you. And as mentioned earlier, back in
Texas, 100,000 kids a year dropping out of the 9th grade.
100,000--that is just in Texas alone. Losing hope, don't think
they can be something they don't want to be. And I think we all
hit it on the head is that we need to promote this, because the
truth of the matter is we all know that once they get into
career opportunities and do some things, that they make more
money than the guys that are--that everybody thinks got money.
And I remember back--remember the cold snap we had 2 years ago?
Nobody that I know of, nobody I know called the plumber or the
welder or the carpenter and said, How much are you going to
charge me if you come out here? It was zero degrees, for crying
out loud. Just save me.
So there's not many businesses like that. So we need to
promote that. And we need to make sure these kids understand
that there is a lot of hope after the 9th grade in these
industries. And, you know, a lot of them don't even know that
current technical current education programs exist. And I know
before I got here, I heard somebody talk about the fact that
plumbers--metal shop and wood shop, you had to take that when I
was in school in the fifties, and we need to get back to that.
So, Mr. Raney, can elaborate on the work of TEXO to educate
young people about the opportunities that are out there. Oh, I
am sorry, Mrs. Raney. We flew up on the plane together.
Mrs. RANEY. We did. So TEXO Foundation is active in around
75 high schools in the Dallas, Fort Worth region. And we are
working with around 7,000 students in the DFW area. And when
you look at how many ISDs, that is a small amount compared to
how many we have to go reach. But we are active on advisory
councils. We are active in the classrooms. Like I said earlier,
we are changing the perception of what it is like to be in
construction and showing them a path forward.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Great. You are doing a good job.
Ms. Onwuka, you talked about how college is getting more
expensive. We know that, right? And, yet, I haven't seen any
additional return on investment for students. So what is
driving this disconnect, do you think, in our education system?
Ms. ONWUKA. Well, the disconnect when it comes to every-
kid-to-college model is, from the cost standpoint, I think, you
look at funding. And part of it is just that the ability for
students to access federal funds, and the fact that the federal
government really is subsidizing the rising cost of college.
Let me give you an interesting statistic here. For every
dollar that the federal government puts into college in the
subsidized loans, colleges raise their cost by 60 cents. So,
there is this cycle of, well, you can charge more because the
federal government is going to subsidize. At the same time,
young people feel, well, college is the only route, so I have
got to take out the student loans. And that is where you are
getting the vicious cycle.
Mr. WILLIAMS. You know, I have got a bill that would have
information about these programs on the Department of
Education's website right before a student submits their
paperwork to take out student loans and make them aware that
there is options out there.
Ms. ONWUKA. Transparency, right.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Schickel, you have got a great story
about taking a leap of faith when you were 28 to start your own
business now. There is no universal path you can take to start
your own small business, we know that. But for all young people
who are nervous about going off on their own, starting a small
business, can you describe the steps you took to start your
business all those years, all those years ago, right, and how
you learned the intricacies of operating your own business?
Mr. SCHICKEL. Thank you. You know, I think--as I said in my
testimony, it is pretty easy, relatively easy to learn how to
build a house, but it is tough to run a business successfully.
And I took advantage of the educational opportunities every
year that the National Association of Home Builders provided
with their annual International Builders Show. It was a 3-day
extravaganza of probably 100 to 150 different seminars that you
can take about every imaginable thing. And I really mind that
for the knowledge and the expertise and the networking that was
available on those occasions. And then every year, I just honed
my skills and worked and worked and worked to improve my
abilities.
Mr. WILLIAMS. And you opened up in the morning, and you
locked it up at night, didn't you?
Mr. SCHICKEL. Oh, absolutely.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, Ms. Onwuka, I will quickly here ask you
a question. Can you talk about credentialing issues that
prevent people from going into certain careers?
Ms. ONWUKA. Sure. Occupational licensing refers to just the
licenses for someone to, you know, participate in any type of
occupation. It is really a State-level issue. It is supposed to
signal that someone has the training or knowledge or education
that they need. Sometimes it can become a barrier to
opportunity, particularly, for immigrants, for people who have
criminal records, which a lot of young people have
unfortunately today, and for women particularly, military
spouses who cannot transfer their licenses from State to State.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, my time is up. I will just say that the
circle of an economy or a business or anything else is not
completed until you fill the gap of the people we are talking
about. There will always be an issue that we need to continue
to fight. I yield back my time back. Thank you.
Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
for your leadership with the Small Business Committee and your
faith in this Subcommittee's work.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here with us
today. I agree with Mr. Pappas, this perhaps is maybe one of
the most important conversations occurring on the Hill. In
order to rebuild the American economy, we have to inspire folks
not only to work, but to achieve success, rather that is
through the trades or developing your own business, encouraging
that, and breaking down some of those obstacles is critically
important.
So with that, without objection, Members have five
legislative days to submit additional materials and written
questions for the witnesses to the Chair, which will be
forwarded to the witnesses. And at this point, I would ask
witnesses to please respond promptly should that occur. And if
there is no further business, without objection, the Committee
is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:10 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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