Letters of Opposition to Michigan House Bills 4913 and 4914

Summary

Emailed letters addressed to Clerk Dakota Soda, sent between October 28 and October 30, 2025, oppose Michigan HB 4913 and HB 4914. Paul Locher, who writes as an architect, Brian Davies of Hubbell, Roth & Clark, Inc., Dean Tidwell, Paul Haselhuhn and James Stevens are among the writers. Several letters say HB 4914 removes the requirement that at least two-thirds of a firm's principals be licensed professionals, and that HB 4913 weakens the education requirement for architect licensure. Davies urges the House Rules Committee to vote no on both bills, while Haselhuhn refers to the House Economic Competitiveness Committee.

Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used

Full text

Dakota Soda

From: Paul Locher <Paul.Locher@smithgroup.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 7:45 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 & HB 4914

Hello Clerk Dakota Soda,

’m an Architect in Michigan and I’m writing to you about my opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914. I have listed
several key points that | oppose in these bills below. But let me ask you a simple question. Would you go to a
doctor for surgery if they didn’t have a license? No? So why would you lower the standards for a building design
professional who can affect far more people than any single doctor? The licensing process for Architect and
Engineers is designed to weed out the people who are not qualified to have a license to practice in their chosen
profession. These bills give people who should not be in charge of a company a free pass to affect decision that

affect the public’s health, safety, and welfare.

Points on HB 4913:
1. The concern of AIA Michigan is that this bill does not align with the original intent of simplifying the

licensure process without compromising the integrity of the profession.

2. Reducing the red tape in licensure was not meant to lower the standards or requirements in a manner that
could diminish the value of the architecture profession.

3. By emphasizing degree requirements without providing clarity or maintaining a balance with practical
experience, the bill risks prioritizing accessibility over professional rigor.

4. AlA Michigan opposes the measure because it focuses on making licensure easier, rather than less
administratively burdensome.

5. The profession of architecture is charged with protecting the public’s health, safety, and welfare. Lowering
requirements, without ensuring that competency and quality are maintained, could jeopardize this
responsibility.

6. The bill’s approach to reducing barriers—by emphasizing a vague equivalency of a professional degree—
fails to address the real obstacles, such as administrative inefficiencies or inconsistencies in licensure
processes.

7. The red tape report emphasized the need for collaboration with LARA, NCARB, and other stakeholders to
explore solutions that streamline processes without sacrificing the education, experience, and
examination requirements necessary to uphold the profession’s standards.

8. Existing frameworks, such as NCARB's licensing models, balance education, experience, and competency
assessments and should be considered as alternatives to the changes proposed in HB 4913.

9. The bottom line is that the task assigned to LARA was cutting the red tape in licensure processes. They
should focus on reducing administrative hurdles, making licensure less arduous, but not necessarily
easier in a way that sacrifices the value of the profession.

Points on HB 4914:
1. Removing the requirement for at least two-thirds of a firm's principals to be licensed professionals in

architecture, engineering, or land surveying could undermine the integrity and quality of these professions.
a. Licensing ensures that leadership possesses the expertise, experience, and ethical standards
essential for public safety, infrastructure reliability, and environmental sustainability.
2. This amendment could allow unqualified individuals to influence critical projects, potentially resulting in

substandard work or safety risks.
a. Reducing the threshold for licensed professionals may dilute accountability and weaken public

trust in these professions.
b. The reform appears to prioritize business interests over public welfare, risking long-term
consequences for infrastructure and professional standards.
3. The bill’s expedited implementation timeline provides insufficient time to address potential unforeseen
consequences or adequately prepare stakeholders for such a significant change.
4. Reducing the education requirement undermines the public interest.
a. Architects are tasked with ensuring the health, safety, and welfare of the public, and lowering
licensure standards is counterproductive.
b. Bill 4913 replaces education with an apprenticeship model but fails to provide sufficient detail,
which is unsatisfactory.
5. AIA Michigan opposes this bill and emphasizes the importance of maintaining robust licensure
requirements.
a. The organization has been collaborating with NCARB on alternate paths to licensure and is willing
to support further research and discussions.
b. AIA Michigan requests an opportunity to engage with legislators, LARA, and the Board of Architects
to explore more comprehensive and effective models for architectural licensure.
c. Existing models from NCARB, NAAB, and several states could serve as better alternatives to the
proposed changes.

I’m available at your convenience to further discuss this matter further. My contact info is listed below.

Thanks you,
PAUL LOCHER

(Pronunciation Locker)

AIA, LEED AP
Associate | Architect

T 313.442.8152
500 Griswold Street, Suite 1700
Detroit, MI 48226

SMITHGROUP
Dakota Soda

From: Davies, Brian <BDavies@hrcengr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:16 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Oppose HB 4913 & 4914

Good Morning Dakota,

As a licensed civil engineer at Hubbell, Roth & Clark, Inc., | wanted to express my opposition to HB 4913 and HB
4914 and | am deeply concerned that these bills weaken professional standards and endanger public welfare,

which is part of a civil engineer’s oath of ethics.

While House Bill 4913 retains experience and examination requirements, replacing standardized,
accredited education with subjective equivalents would erode the consistency and rigor that protect
public safety. ABET programs ensure engineers possess the technical expertise, ethical grounding, and
safety training necessary to design and maintain critical infrastructure—bridges, roads, water systems,
and energy facilities that Michigan families rely on daily. Introducing alternatives opens the door to
uneven preparation and lower competency, increasing the risk of costly design errors and system

failures.

Michigan’s current requirements align with the National Council of Examiners for Engineering and
Surveying (NCEES) Model Law, used by most states to uphold licensure standards and reciprocity.
Departing from this model would isolate Michigan, making it harder for engineers to work across state
lines and signaling that Michigan accepts lower thresholds for professional qualification.

In short, HB 4913 substitutes accessibility for accountability. Weakening educational requirements
may seem minor on paper, but in practice it compromises the public trust and the safety of Michigan’s

infrastructure.

House Bill 4914 eliminates the requirement that at least two-thirds of a firm’s principals be licensed
professionals to practice engineering. Michigan does not license firms or issue Certificates of
Authorization (COAs)—unlike 42 other states—so the two-thirds rule is our only firm-level safeguard.
Removing it without replacement would allow non-licensed control of professional firms, shifting
decisions toward profit rather than ethics and safety—potentially leading to structural failures or other

hazards.

Together, these bills would lower Michigan’s standards below national norms, complicate interstate
reciprocity, and expose the public to unqualified design practices. The ABA’s 2024 50-State Survey
confirms Michigan’s rule aligns with 20-25 states requiring majority licensed ownership, while roughly 40
require firm-level licensing. HB 4914 would leave no safeguards in place.

Fiscal analyses note indeterminate impacts such as possible fee revenue, but ignore long-term costs
from safety incidents, litigation, and public mistrust.

As a practicing professional in Michigan, | urge the House Rules Committee to vote no on HB 4913 and
vote no on HB 4914. These bills put Michiganders at risk and are not in the interest of our great state! If

if
you have any questions or wish to discuss further, | would be happy to advise you and your committee
members on why these bills are a bad idea.

Sincerely,

Brian Davies | Associate

HUBBELL, ROTH & CLARK, INC

555 Hulet Drive, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302
O: 248-454-6506 | M: 248-982-4678
Dakota Soda

From: Dean Tidwell <deantaia@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 1:10 PM

To: Dakota Soda: aiami@aiami.ccsend.com; Rep. Rylee Linting (District 27)
Subject: HBs 4913 & 4914 opposition

Hi Committee Clerk, Dakota Soda & et.al.

As a practicing Michigan Architect, in the Grosse lle, Riverview, Trenton, Wyandotte area of Michigan and
which is home to some fantastic historic homes of various architectural styles, | submit opposition to

both HB 4913 & 4914.
In Summary:

Good Samaritan (Architect), Scope of Practice: Architect (Occupational Licensing Reform)
Occupations: architects, professional engineers, and surveyors; licensing requirements for architects;
modify to allow apprenticeships This measure requires an individual seeking to be licensed as an
architect to provide evidence of completion of a first professional degree or further degree in
architecture satisfactory to the Board of Architects or the equivalent of a first professional degree. This
measure will take effect immediately if passed by 2/3 of both chambers or 90 days after adjournment if
not passed by 2/3 of both chambers.

Sponsors:

Karl Bohnak (District 109); Douglas Wozniak (District 59); David Martin (District 68)
Bill Schuette (District 95); Ken Borton (District 105); Gregory Alexander (District 9)
Committee - Economic Competitiveness/Republican Members:

Rep. Mike Hoadley (Republican) District-99 Chair

Rep. Karl Bohnak (Republican) District-109 Majority Vice Chair
Rep. Kristian Grant (Democrat) District-82 Minority Vice Chair
Rep. Pat Outman (Republican) District-91

Rep. Mike Harris (Republican) District-52

Rep. Brian BeGole (Republican) District-71

Rep. Jay DeBoyer (Republican) District-63

Rep. Alicia St. Germaine (Republican) District-62

Rep. Julie Brixie (Democrat) District-73

Rep. Joe Tate (Democrat) District-9

Rep. Betsy Coffia (Democrat) District-103

and
Opposition to HB 4913

The concern of AIA Michigan is that this bill does not align with the original intent of simplifying the
1
licensure process without compromising the integrity of the profession.
Reducing the red tape in licensure was not meant to lower the standards or requirements in a manner
that could diminish the value of the architecture profession.

By emphasizing degree requirements without providing clarity or maintaining a balance with practical
experience, the bill risks prioritizing accessibility over professional rigor.

AIA Michigan opposes the measure because it focuses on making licensure easier, rather than less
administratively burdensome.

The profession of architecture is charged with protecting the public’s health, safety, and welfare.
Lowering requirements, without ensuring that competency and quality are maintained, could jeopardize
this responsibility.

The bill’s approach to reducing barriers—by emphasizing a vague equivalency of a professional
degree—fails to address the real obstacles, such as administrative inefficiencies or inconsistencies in
licensure processes.

The red tape report emphasized the need for collaboration with LARA, NCARB, and other stakeholders
to explore solutions that streamline processes without sacrificing the education, experience, and
examination requirements necessary to uphold the profession’s standards.

Existing frameworks, such as NCARB's licensing models, balance education, experience, and
competency assessments and should be considered as alternatives to the changes proposed in HB
4913.

The bottom line is that the task assigned to LARA was cutting the red tape in licensure processes. They
should focus on reducing administrative hurdles, making licensure less arduous, but not necessarily
easier in a way that sacrifices the value of the profession.

Michigan HB 4914

Good Samaritan (Architect), Scope of Practice: Architect (Occupational Licensing Reform)

Summary: This measure amends existing law to remove a requirement that at least two-thirds of a firm's
principals be licensees in architecture, engineering, or professional land surveying, to engage in the
practice of any of the aforementioned professions. This measure takes effect immediately if passed by
2/3 of both chambers or 90 days after adjournment if not passed by 2/3 of both chambers.

Compromising my architecture practice with HB 4913 & 4914 is a big deal,
Licensure is a big deal for my practice,
Dean Tidwell AIA NCARB
Dakota Soda

From: Paul A. Haselhuhn <phaselhuhn@wtaarch.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 8:20 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition of House Bill 4913 & 4914

Dear Committee Clerk Dakota Soda and Honorable Members of the Michigan Legislature,

My name is Paul Haselhuhn, and architect and business owner, and | am writing to formally express my strong
opposition to House Bills 4913 and 4914, currently under consideration by the House Economic Competitiveness

Committee.

These bills, while framed as occupational licensing reform, pose significant risks to the integrity of the architecture
profession and the public's health, safety, and welfare.

Opposition to HB 4913

HB 4913 proposes to modify licensure requirements for architects by allowing undefined “apprenticeships” as an
alternative to a professional degree. This approach:

Lacks clarity and fails to define the structure, oversight, or standards of such apprenticeships.

Undermines professional rigor, replacing established educational pathways with vague equivalencies.
Jeopardizes public safety, as architects are entrusted with designing safe, sustainable environments.
Contradicts the intent of LARA’s “Cutting Red Tape” initiative, which aimed to reduce administrative burdens—
not lower professional standards.

Opposition to HB 4914

HB 4914 seeks to eliminate the requirement that at least two-thirds of a firm’s principals be licensed professionals in
architecture, engineering, or surveying. This change:

Dilutes professional accountability, allowing unlicensed individuals to influence critical decisions.
Threatens public trust and safety in infrastructure and design.

Prioritizes business interests over professional ethics and public welfare.

Accelerates implementation without sufficient stakeholder engagement or impact analysis.

As aconcerned constituent, | urge you to:

e Submit my name in opposition to HB 4913 and HB 4914.

e Preserve the current licensure and ownership standards that protect Michigan residents and uphold the
integrity of the architecture profession.

e Engage with professional organizations such as AIA Michigan and NCARB to explore thoughtful, well-defined
reforms that maintain high standards while improving administrative efficiency.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. | respectfully request that these bills be reconsidered or significantly revised in
collaboration with industry experts and regulatory bodies.

Paul Andrew Haselhuhn, AIA, LEED AP gpic
President

100 S Jefferson, Ste 601 WTA ARCHITECTS
Dakota Soda

From: James Stevens <james.stevens@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:51 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Ce: Rep. Mike Hoadley (District 99)

Subject: HB 4913 and 4914

Dakota,

Please forward my comments to the committee concerning the above.

As a licensed engineer, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational rigor and firm
oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

As a previous member of the State Board of Professional Engineers, | reviewed licensure applications as
it relates to the current educational requirements. The current law allows for the board to review degrees
that are not accredited for the equivalency (ie. degrees from other other countries). The proposed
language could open up applications for engineering degrees that did not meet the requirements to
become accredited. The State Board should not be in the business of accrediting degrees. If the
committee would like to provide more clarity in the language, | would suggest the following, “...or the
equivalent of a baccalaureate degree from an AEC accredited program”.

HB 4914 would promote leaders/owners of design firms that have not been through the education and
training that is required to achieve licensure. Having the majority of decision makers of these firms
without the education and training that includes the foundational principle of putting public health and
safety above all else jeopardizes Michigan.

The public, health, and safety of the public is paramount. The current standards in our State have served
as well and they should not be relaxed.

JAMES STEVENS, PE
VICE PRESIDENT OF ENGINEERING

OHM Advisorse
D (248) 751-3102 | M (248) 396-8939 | O (248) 751-3100

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

ONM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Ferencz, Kelly <Kelly.Ferencz@wsp.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:46 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Cc: Rep. Ann Bollin (District 49)

Subject: HB 4913 & 4914 Opposition

As a licensed engineer WSP, with over 27 years of experience, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they
weaken educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

These bills could compromise engineering quality in my personal district of Brighton, MI, risking safety in
critical projects like bridge/interchange reconstruction, roadway rehabilitation, water and sewer
upgrades and all other civil infrastructure projects.

Thank you,
Kelly

Kelly K. Ferencz, PE, CM
Vice President
Regional Aviation Principal - Midwest

M: 517.404.2054
Email: Kelly.Ferencz@wsp.com

Lansing Office — 6100 W. St. Joseph Hwy, Suite 400, Lansing, Mi 48917
Detroit Office — 500 Griswold St, Suite 2600, Guardian Bld, Detroit, MI 48826

is communication and any attach
sure under applicable law. This
minati ipution of, or rellance on, this :
authorized or intended recipient, please notify the sender immed
destroy any printed cor

strictly prohibi
y by replying to this message,

e and all copies from your e-mail system and

e this mess.

Dakota Soda

From: Lauren Roller <lroller@hed.co>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:43 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & 4914

Good Morning,

As a licensed engineer with HED, | oppose HB 4913 and 4914. These bills weaken educational rigor and firm
oversight, jeopardizing Michigan's infrastructure and public safety.

Thank You,

Lauren Roller PE
She/Her/Hers
Associate Principal
Structural Engineering

D 248.233.0085 HED.CO
lroller@hed.co

i=li=|D

123 West Fifth St
Royal Oak, MI 48067
Dakota Soda

From: Mike Williams <mwilliams@gowightman.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:43 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 & HB 4914

As aconsumer of our state's infrastructure and Finance Director at Wightman & Associates, Inc. a Michigan
based Civil Engineering, Architecture, and Land Surveying firm, | oppose HB 4913 & HB 4914 on public-safety
grounds.

Respectfully,

Michael Williams

OFFICE 269.487.9669 MOBILE 269.217.1¢

433 E RANSOM STREET, KALA
GOWIGHTMAN.COM

ae

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fl 49007

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Dakota Soda

From: Doug Skylis <DSkylis@rowepsc.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:33 AM

To: Rep. Kathy Schmaltz (District 46); Dakota Soda
Subject: SB 4913 &4914

Kathy and Dakota,
| am writing to ask you to oppose both of these house bills #4913 and 4914. While both may seam reasonable and

harmless to the general public, as an engineer | can tell you they are NOT HARMLESS.

For 4913 there isn’t any way to equate an apprenticeship program to a college degree. | am fully supportive of
apprenticeships and trades people, but do not think their program equates to the one | took.

Regarding 4914, if a firm is offering professional services by one or more licensed professional, their ownership makeup
should reflect their commitment to the profession.

Sincerely,

Douglas P. Skylis, PE (1990-2025) | Sr. Project Manager
ROWE Professional Services Company

ENR Top 500 Design Firm

O: (248) 675-1096 | C: (810) 869-5112
27280 Haggerty Road, Suite C-2 | Farmington Hills, MI 48331

www.rowepsc.com

ft By Bo Kok in

This electronic mail, including any attachments may contain confidential information protected by law and is intended solely for use by the
individual to whom or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for delivering this message, the reader is hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of the information is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by phone or return electronic mail. Thank

you.

Dakota Soda

From: Schumaker, Jeff <jschumaker@fishbeck.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 8:26 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 and 4914

Dear Dakota,

I’m writing to you today to encourage opposition to House Bill 4913 and 4914. House bill 4913 weakens
educational requirements for obtaining a professional engineering license and weakens professional standards in
engineering. Passing this bill would make it difficult for engineers licensed in Michigan to obtain licensure in other
states through reciprocity. Michigan engineers would be viewed as a lower class.

Further, House Bill 4914 could lead to firms with a leadership structure, non-licensed control, mis-aligned with the
ethical practice required for engineering, thus jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Thanks for your consideration.

Jeff Schumaker, PE | Chief Vision Officer
Fishbeck | w: 616.464.3841 | c: 616.446.6992 | Fishbeck.com
1515 Arboretum Dr. SE Grand Rapids MI 49546
Dakota Soda

From: Tracie Williams <Tracie.Williams@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 7:53 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 4914

As a licensed engineer with OHM Advisors, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational
rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

TRACIE WILLIAMS, PE, LEED AP

OHM Advisorse
D (906) 696-7107 | M (906) 370-5734 | O (906) 482-0535

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Everitt, Brent J. <brent.everitt@spicergroup.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 7:13 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914

Dear Dokota,

| am writing as a licensed professional surveyor with Spicer Group Inc. to express my strong opposition to House
Bills 4913 and 4914. These proposed changes undermine the educational rigor and professional oversight that are
essential to safeguarding Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Surveying is a cornerstone of transportation, utility, and land development projects across our state. Reducing
qualification standards and oversight will:

e Jeopardize Public Safety: Accurate surveying prevents costly errors and structural failures in roads,
bridges, and drainage systems.

e Compromise Infrastructure Integrity: MDOT and municipal projects rely on precise data and
professional accountability to meet design and safety standards.

e Erode Professional Accountability: Oversight ensures ethical practice and technical competence,
protecting taxpayers and communities from risk.

Michigan’s infrastructure demands highly skilled professionals who adhere to rigorous standards. Weakening
these requirements will not serve the public interest—it will increase liability, costs, and safety hazards.

| urge you to reject HB 4913 and HB 4914 and preserve the high standards that protect our state’s citizens and
investments.

Thank you for your consideration. Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this matter further.

Sincerely,

Brent J. Everitt, P.S. | Design Survey Practice Lead
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Cell: 989-873-0420

www.spicergroup.com

Stronger. Safer. Smarter. Spicer.

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance
upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.
Dakota Soda

From: Chip Clark <chip.dbclark@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 11:34 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to House Bills 4913 & 4914 — Architectural Licensing Standards

Dear Committee Clerk, Dakota Soda,

| am writing to express my strong opposition to House Bills 4913 and 4914 as
currently drafted.

These measures were introduced following LARA’s “Cutting Red Tape” report,
which was intended to streamline licensing processes—not lower professional
standards or weaken public protections. Unfortunately, both bills move in that
direction.

HB 4913 weakens the educational and competency baseline for architects by
introducing an undefined “apprenticeship equivalency” in place of a professional
degree. The bill provides no clarity on program standards, oversight, curriculum,
accountability, or assessment of competency. This is not regulatory
streamlining—it is deregulation of core safety requirements. The architecture
profession is entrusted with protecting the public’s health, safety, and welfare.
Lowering the threshold for technical and ethical competency places that
responsibility at risk.

HB 4914 removes the current requirement that at least two-thirds of ownership in
an architectural, engineering, or surveying firm must be licensed professionals.
This threshold helps ensure that critical decisions are made by those bound by
licensure, ethics, and liability—not by unqualified business interests. Eliminating
this safeguard undermines accountability and increases the likelihood that
financial pressures could outweigh public safety considerations.

The original purpose of LARA’s directive was to reduce administrative hurdles in
licensure—not to reduce qualifications, competency, or professional oversight.
Existing frameworks through NCARB, NAAB, and the Michigan Board of

1
Dakota Soda

From: Zachary Carr <zcarr@fkengineering.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 10:05 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposing HB 4913 & 4914 on public-safety grounds!

Dear Committee Clerk,

As a State of Michigan licensed Professional Engineerengineer with FK Engineering in Madison
Heights, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they both weaken educational rigor and engineering firm
oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Zachary Carr, P.E.

Vice President

FK Engineering Associates
30425 Stephenson Hwy.

Madison Heights, MI 48071

Office: 248-817-2946

Cell: 313-304-6737

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review,
use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
Dakota Soda

From: Tim Juidici <tim.juidici@ohm-advisors.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 6:20 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & 4914 to Protect Public Safety and Professional Standards

As a licensed civil engineer with OHM Advisors, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken
educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Tim Juidici, PE

OHM Advisors

2365 Pontiac Rd, Suite 201
Auburn Hills, MI 48326

TIM JUIDICI, PE
PRINCIPAL

OHM Advisorse
D (248) 751-3104 | O (248) 751-3100

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Tanweer Shah <tanweer.shah@geotranconsultants.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 5:23 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: House Bills 4913 and 4914

Dear Committee Clerk Dakota Soda,

As a licensed engineer with GeoTran Consultants, | oppose HB 4913 and 4914 because they weaken education rigor and
firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety. These bills could compromise engineering
quality in our state, risking safety in critical projects like bridges, highways, streets, roads and water systems, etc.

Thank you for your prompt attention to these bills.

ee «.) ey > ey md
fanweer Shah, PE

Phone: 810.229.6805; Fax: 810.229.6561; Cell: 810.623.4226
www.geotranconsultants.com

MDOT-certified DBE
Dakota Soda

From: MC Moritz <MC.Moritz@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 5:22 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: | oppose HB 4913 & 4914

Hello Clerk Soda,

oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Together, these bills would lower Michigan’s standards below national norms, complicate interstate
reciprocity, and expose the public to unqualified design practices.

Thank you for your work in our government.
Regards,
MC Moritz

MC MORITZ, EIT

OHM Advisorse
D (734) 466-4506 | M (313) 247-8872 | O (734) 522-6711

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Pat Wingate <pat.wingate@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 5:01 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 and HB 4914

Ms. Soda,

As a licensed engineer with OHM Advisors, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because | believe they will weaken
educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

House Bill 4913 would amend the Occupational Code to allow the state board to accept undefined
“equivalents” to an ABET-accredited baccalaureate degree in engineering for Professional Engineer (PE)
licensure. While this may increase accessibility, it impacts accountability. This would weaken
education requirements and, in practice, it compromises the public trust and the safety of Michigan’s
infrastructure.

HB 4914 -This bill eliminates the requirement that at least two-thirds of a firm’s principals be licensed
professionals to practice engineering. Michigan does not license firms or issue Certificates of
Authorization (COAs)—unlike 42 other states—so the two-thirds rule is our only firm-level safeguard.
Removing it without replacement would allow non-licensed control of professional firms, shifting
decisions toward profit rather than ethics and safety—potentially leading to failures or other hazards.

Together, these bills would lower Michigan’s standards below national norms, complicate interstate
reciprocity, and expose the public to unqualified design practices.

Respectfully,
Patrick Wingate
3875 Sheldon Dr
Petoskey MI 49770

PAT WINGATE, PE

OHM Advisorse
D (734) 466-4465 | M (734) 718-9122 | O (231) 344-1150

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Aclvisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Donn, Stephen M. <stephen.donn@spicergroup.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 10:02 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914

Dear Dokota,

| am writing as a licensed professional surveyor with Spicer Group Inc. to express my strong opposition to House
Bills 4913 and 4914. These proposed changes undermine the educational rigor and professional oversight that are
essential to safeguarding Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Surveying is a cornerstone of transportation, utility, and land development projects across our state. Reducing
qualification standards and oversight will:

e Jeopardize Public Safety: Accurate surveying prevents costly errors and structural failures in roads,
bridges, and drainage systems.

e Compromise Infrastructure Integrity: MDOT and municipal projects rely on precise data and
professional accountability to meet design and safety standards.

e Erode Professional Accountability: Oversight ensures ethical practice and technical competence,
protecting taxpayers and communities from risk.

Michigan’s infrastructure demands highly skilled professionals who adhere to rigorous standards. Weakening
these requirements will not serve the public interest—it will increase liability, costs, and safety hazards.

In addition, House Bill 4914 poses to undermine & threaten Michigan owned / based small businesses which
provide local economic competitiveness and opportunities for thousands of Michigan residents.

| urge you to reject HB 4913 and HB 4914 and preserve the high standards that protect our state’s citizens and
investments.

Thank you for your consideration. Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this matter further.

Sincerely,

Stephen M. Donn, P.S. | Construction Survey Practice Lead
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Cell: 989-313-9837

Office: 989-718-3127

www. spicergroup.com

Stronger. Safer. Smarter. Spicer.

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance
upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.

1
Dakota Soda

From: Tarin Minkel <tarinminkel@dixonengineering.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 10:12 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 and 4914

Hello,

As a licensed engineer in the State of Michigan, | strongly oppose HB 4913 and 4914. Opening up
licensing to individuals without and education that meets some kind of standard is extremely dangerous
for public safety. There are several unaccredited engineering programs across the state that do not
provide the level of education needed to be a licensed professional engineer.

Allowing engineering firms to be ran by those other than a majority of engineers is a big mistake. Having
an engineering focus at the forefront of all decision making is essential to protect public welfare.

Thank you!

Tarin Minkel, PE | Project Manager

Dixon Engineering, Inc. | www.dixonengineering.net
1104 Third Avenue,

Lake Odessa, MI 48849

Office: 616-374-3221

Cell: 989- IX xO

baR DIXO INC.

This e-mail along with any attachments is only intended for the individual or entity whom it names. If
you've received it in error, please notify the sender and delete it without copying, reviewing, distributing,
or otherwise transmitting it.

Dakota Soda

From: Tim Hoeffner <thoeffner@quandelconsultants.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 10:20 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: opposing HB 4913 & 4914

As a licensed professional engineer with Quande Consultants in Jackson MI, |
oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational rigor and firm
oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure, and public safety.”

QUANDEL.

Tim Hoeffner, P.E.
Senior Consultant

180 W. Michigan Ave, Suite 800
Jackson, MI 49201

517.655.3610

thoeffner@quandel.com
www.quandelconsultants.com

Dakota Soda

From: Wendling, Matt <matt.wendling@wsp.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 10:33 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Ce: Wendling, Matt

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & 4914

Good morning Ms. Soda,

I’m writing to voice my concerns over potential advancement of House Bills 4913 and 4914 to the House Rules
Committee on Thursday. As a licensed engineer with WSP Michigan Inc., | oppose HB 4913 and 4914
because they weaken educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public
safety. Protecting the public through delivery of quality infrastructure projects by engineers and designers that
meet the educational requirements should be such a low bar for our state and bills such as these truly do
jeopardize this practice.

Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions or would like to discuss further.

Thank you!
Matt

Matt Wendling, PE
Senior Vice President
Michigan Transportation Business Leader

T +1 517.327.7848
M +1 517.648.1248

WSP Michigan Inc.
Lansing Office — 6100 W. St. Joseph Hwy, Suite 400, Lansing, Mi 48917
Detroit Office — 500 Griswold St, Suite 2600, Guardian Bld, Detroit, MI 48826

wsp.com

ge") may contain information which is privileged, con
sole use of the infended reciplent(s}. Any unauthor
age is strictly prohibited. If you have recei sme ine
ssage and all copies frorr

slosure unde
i on, this me

mination or

Dakota Soda

From: Andrew Stone <astone414@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 10:42 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB4913 and HB4914

Hello Dakota,

As aresident of Michigan and a licensed architect practicing in the area, | would like to express my
opposition to proposed House Bills 4913 and 4914 as they relate to architectural practice, ownership
requirements, and licensing regulations. | understand there is a growing list of individuals who have
expressed opposition to these bills, and | would like my name to be added to that list.

HB4913 focuses on making architecture easier, rather than less burdensome. As an architect, | am
committed to protecting the health, safety, and welfare of the general public, and lowering the threshold
for licensure has a very distinct potential to dramatically negatively impact our ability to protect the
general public. Existing frameworks, such as NCARB's licensing models, balance education, experience,
and competency assessments should be considered as alternatives to the proposals in HB 4913.

HB 4914, similarly, has a strong potential to increase the occurrence of substandard work and jeopardize
the safety of the public. By diluting the ownership/management requirements of an architecture and
engineering firm, unqualified individuals are given the ability to make uninformed decisions and
deteriorate the public's trust in the architecture and engineering professions. AIA Michigan, the
professional organization | belong to, has expressed a desire to engage with legislators, LARA, and the
Board of Architects to explore a more comprehensive and effective model.

Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
Thank you
Andrew Stone, AIA, NCARB

938 Webb St.
Detroit, MI 48202
Dakota Soda

From: Stacey, Matt <MSTACEY@WadeTrim.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 10:50 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HBs 4913 and 4914

As a licensed professional engineer with Wade Trim (company information below) in multiple states, including my home
state of Michigan, | oppose the aforementioned bills as they weaken the educational requirements to become an engineer
and weaken firm oversight of engineering companies within the state, likely leading to weakened professional standards,
and potential issues with the public health, safety and welfare.

~Matt

| WADE
4 TRIM

Matthew J. Stacey, PE, Senior Vice President
Transportation Market Segment Lead

25251 Northline Road, Taylor, Mi 48180
734.947.2658 office

734.255.0384 cell

Employee Owner since 1999

Dakota Soda

From: John Baldauf <jbaldauf@HNTB.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 11:06 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Please Vote No on House Bills 4913 and 4914

To Whom It May Concern,

As a licensed engineer with HNTB Michigan, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational rigor and

firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety. Please Vote No on these two bills.

Thank you,

Ce oe '3) 920- 7999 Email jbald

HNTB CORPORATION
400 Renaissance Center, Suite 1800 | Detroit, MI 48243 | hntb.com

LinkedIn | X | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
whom they are addressed. If you are NOT the intended recipient and receive this communication, please delete this
message and any attachments. Thank you.
Dakota Soda

From: Steve Carlisle <scarlisle@gowightman.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 4:33 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & 4914

To whom it may concern:

As a licensed engineer with Wightman, | believe HB 4913 and HB 4914 could unintentionally lower
the professional and oversight standards that ensure safe, reliable infrastructure across

Michigan. We must keep the bar high for the firms protecting the health and welfare of Michigan
residents.

Thank you,

OFFICE 269.487.9712 MOBILE 269.449.6814
2ESTONE ROAD, BENTON HARBOR, MI 49022
GOWIGHTMAN.COM

Dakota Soda

From: Sarah Barrett <Sarah.Barrett@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 4:45 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition of HB 4913 & 4914

Importance: High

Hi Dakota Soda,

My name is Sarah Barrett and | am an engineer at OHM Advisors. As an engineer that has an accredited
bachelors in Civil Engineering from Wayne State University and is taking the proper steps towards
licensure, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational rigor and firm oversight,

jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

My personal contact information is as follows:

Phone — (248) 925-6230

Address —- 30179 Westwood Drive, Madison Heights, MI 48071
Email— sarah.barrett@ohm-advisors.com

Thank you for your time,

SARAH BARRETT
ENGINEER

OHM Advisorse
D (734) 466-4540 | O (248) 751-3100

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Scott Lockwood <slockwood@aewinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 4:52 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 and 4914

To all Economic Competitiveness Committee Members,

lam reaching out today because | understand the House Economic Competitiveness Committee is voting on
HB 4913 and 4914 this Thursday, 10/30. | urge you to please vote no on these bills. | thoroughly believe these
bills weaken educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan's infrastructure and public

safety. Please contact me if you have any questions or comments. Thank you for your consideration,

Scott Lockwood, PE

Executive Vice President

51301 Schoenherr Road, Shelby Twp., MI 48315
Phone: 586-726-1234

Cell: 586-9 14-9947

E-mail: slockwood@aewince.com

A / ANDERSON, ECKSTEIN & WESTRICK, INC.
& CIVIL ENGINEERS - SURVEYORS - ARCHITECTS
.

“Engineering Strong Communities”

Connect With Our Team:

Hn ©
Dakota Soda

From: Mariah Cummings <Mariah.Cummings@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 4:50 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 & 4914

Mr. Soda,

As a licensed engineer with OHM Advisors, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational rigor
and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety. Michigan has made great progress
in recent years to improve our public infrastructure. Please consider the downfall of these bills and vote NO on

Thursday.

MARIAH CUMMINGS, PE
PROJECT ENGINEER

OHM Advisorse
34000 Plymouth Rad, Livonia, MI 48150

D (734) 466-4518 | M (248) 252-3929 | O (734) 522-6711

Advancing Communitiese

ONM-Advisors.com | LinkedIn | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Jessica Katers <jessica.katers@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:57 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: opposing HB 4913 & 4914

Committee Clerk Soda,

As a licensed engineer with OHM Advisors, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational

rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

In my role as our Director of Michigan Municipal Services, my team serves 80+ communities throughout
Michigan; we want to ensure that the public health, safety and welfare remain protected well into the
future by retaining educational requirements that align with the National Council of Examiners for
Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) Model Law used by the majority of our peer states within the USA and
that business decisions are made by licensed engineers in their leadership roles within their firms taking
into account ethics and safety (required and governed by the licensing board) above profit.

Removing either of these requirements will signal that Michigan accepts lower education and oversight
thresholds than the majority of other states, may jeopardize current licensed engineer’s ability to
practice across state lines or receive reciprocity in licensure, and will remove the one safeguard that
aligned us with the 42 other states in the Union that either license firms or issue Certificates of
Authorization to practice.

JESSICA KATERS, PE
DIRECTOR OF MICHIGAN MUNICIPAL
Jessica. Katers@ohm-advisors.com

OHM Advisorse
D (734) 466-4594 | M (248) 760-2302 | O (734) 522-6711

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Garza, Jennifer M. <jenniferg@spicergroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:59 PM

To: Dakota Soda; Rep. Bill G. Schuette (District 95)
Subject: Opposing HB 4913 & 4914

Dear Ms. Soda,
As a licensed engineer with Spicer Group, Inc., | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken
educational rigor and professional standards, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Dear Mr. Schuette,
| urge you to vote no on these bills. They could compromise engineering quality in our district, risking
safety in critical projects like public drinking water, wastewater, and transportation systems.

Sincerely.

Jennifer Garza, P.E.
Drinking Water & Wastewater Director

SPICER GROUP, INC.
Cell: 989-488-8497

www. spicergroup.com
Stronger. Safer. Smarter. Spicer.

Home:
2345 N. Woodland Estates Drive
Midland, MI 48642

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance
upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.
Dakota Soda

From: Elaine J. Venema <evenema@fveng.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 4:10 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 and 4914

Ms. Soda,

As a licensed engineer with Fleis & VandenBrink, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken
educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety. Nearly
every state in the US requires engineers who work on public projects to be licensed in the State they are
working in. This is critical for helping to ensure quality engineering in critical projects, like bridges, roads,
water and sewer systems. Michigan should not be below national standards in this profession which
works on public projects that our residents utilize daily.

lf cosmetologists and barbers need licensure in Michigan, how much more do engineers?
Best regards,

Elaine

Elaine J. Venema, PE

Sr. Project Manager, Associate
FLEIS & VANDENBRINK
DESIGN. BUILD. OPERATE.

©: 616.977.1000

©: 616.446.9669

D: 616.588.1913

2960 Lucerne Drive SE, Grand Rapids, Ml 49546

OD PAUIEST MANAGER

Please be aware of the increasing risk of cybercrime. Always verify the authenticity of emails, especially those requesting sensitive
information or financial transactions. Do not click on links or open attachments from unknown or suspicious sources. If you receive an
unexpected email from me or anyone else in our organization, please contact us directly to confirm its legitimacy.

The information contained in this message and any attachment may be proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work product doctrine and thus
protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended

1
Dakota Soda

From: Miller, Warren T. <warrenm@spicergroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:49 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & 4914

To whom it may concern,

As a licensed engineer with Spicer Group, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they lessen the educational
rigor and firm oversight. This lesser requirements would jeopardize Michigan’s infrastructure and public
safety.

Thank you.

Warren T. Miller, P.E.| Project Manager
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Office: 989-921-5572 | Cell: 906-281-0771
www. spicergroup.com

Stronger. Safer. Smarter. Spicer.

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance
upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.
Dakota Soda

From: Andrew Johnstone <ajohnstone@sda-eng.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:47 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to House Bills 4913 and 4914

Good afternoon,

My name is Andrew Johnstone, and | am a licensed professional engineer with Spalding DeDecker, based in
Rochester Hills, Michigan. | am writing to voice my strong opposition to House Bills 4913 and 4914, which are
currently under consideration by your committee.

As a licensed engineer, | oppose HB 4913 and 4914 because they erode the high standards of education and
professional oversight that safeguard our state's engineering practices, putting Michigan's vital infrastructure and
public safety at serious risk.

HB 4913 proposes changes to the Occupational Code that would permit the state board to approve "equivalents"
in place of a verified ABET-accredited engineering degree for professional engineer licensure. Even though it keeps
the experience and exam elements intact, this shift from objective accreditation to discretionary judgments could
undermine the uniform quality and depth of preparation that accredited programs deliver. Such programs instill
not only technical skills but also a strong ethical framework and focus on safety, which are critical for handling
everything from roadways and bridges to utilities and power grids. Permitting less structured paths risks creating
gaps in knowledge, heightening the chances of errors that could lead to failures with severe consequences.

In addition to this, Michigan's existing standards mirror the National Council of Examiners for Engineering and
Surveying (NCEES) Model Law, a benchmark adopted widely for consistent licensing and seamless professional
mobility between states. Straying from this could position Michigan as an outlier, complicating engineers’ ability to
collaborate or relocate across borders and implying a tolerance for subpar qualifications that erodes confidence
in our profession.

For HB 4914, the proposal to drop the mandate for two-thirds of a firm's key leaders to hold professional licenses
removes a vital layer of accountability in engineering practices. Unlike the majority of states that regulate firms
directly through certificates or authorizations, Michigan relies on this ownership rule as its primary mechanism to
ensure professional judgment guides operations over purely financial motives. Without it, firms could fall under
non-expert influence, prioritizing short-term gains at the expense of thorough, safe design processes.

| strongly encourage the committee to oppose these bills and uphold the robust safeguards that keep Michigan at
the forefront of reliable, forward-thinking infrastructure.

Thank you for considering this perspective.

Andrew Johnstone PE

5 PALDING WO” Dad) 44D ext 1210

e: aljohnstone@sda-eng.com | w: www.sda-

eng.com
Spalding DeDecker: Locations

Dakota Soda

From: Barden, Eric S. <ericb@spicergroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:46 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Please Oppose HB 4913 & 4914

Good Afternoon

As a licensed surveyor and owner of Spicer Group Inc, who employes more than 200 licensed engineers

jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Please support individual and firm accountability by upholding the highest standards in professional
oversight and ownership of engineering and surveying decisions that impact public and private
infrastructure to keep Michigan residents safe.

When our firm owners are also licensed professionals, whose projects bear their signature and
professional seal, the liability and ownership of their plans falls squarely on them. Can you imagine an
environment where investment firms, or non-industry affiliated parties own and operate engineering and
surveying firms? With no professional licensure at risk due to their poor decisions, they will ultimately
prioritize profit over sound engineering decision making that protects the public. When profit is
prioritized over sound engineering, bridges collapse, roads and sewers fail, and buildings fall. And when
the non-licensed business owner is sued, him/her will close their LLC, and start another.

This legislation is bad for Michigan.

Eric S Barden, PS | Executive Vice President
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Cell: 989-239-5732

www. spicergroup.com

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance
upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.
Dakota Soda

From: Boals, Brian M. <brian.boals@spicergroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:28 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 & 4914

As a licensed engineer with Spicer Group, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational
rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Sincerely,

Brian M. Boals, P.E. | Senior Project Manager
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Cell: 231-313-4863

www.spicergroup.com

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance

~ upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.
Dakota Soda

From: Sarah Lipton <SLipton@degenkolb.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 3:19 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 & 4914 Opinion as a Professionally Licensed Engineer
Dakota,

As a licensed professional engineer with Ruby + Associates, | oppose HB 4913 and HB 4914, as they
both weaken the oversight and regulations for education and licensure. This hugely impacts safety
concerns for our building and infrastructure, as it does not keep the high accountability standards that
we need to ensure we as professionally licensed engineers are safe, know what we're doing, and are well
trained. This can lead to an increase in future infrastructure and structural failures in our state and is a

step backwards, not forwards.

This will make it more difficult to work with other states, set our standards much lower than those states,
and risk the public's safety with potentially unqualified designs. The ABA’s 2024 50-State

Survey confirms Michigan’s rule aligns with 20-25 states requiring majority licensed ownership, while
roughly 40 require firm-level licensing. HB 4914 would leave no safeguards in place.

Thank you for listening and responding to my perspective.
Regards,

Sarah (Bednarcik) Lipton, PE*

rubyt+associates
oP p a Degenkolb Company
be adil=e Ml 30300 Telegraph Road, Suite 400 Bingham Farms, MI 48025
ert A mua §=T: 248.865.8855 D:248-838-1232
“www. rubyandassociates.com

READ ALL ABOUT IT! Ruby News, Articles and More: Ruby News
Find us on: LinkedIn | Instagram

Dakota Soda

From: Committee

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 11:14 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: FW: | oppose House Bills 4913 and 4914

Matthew Carnagie Phone: 517-373-5795
Director, Committee Clerks | Address: PO Box 30014
Michigan House of Lansing, Michigan 48909
Representatives Email: mearnagie@house.mi.gov

From: Arnie Bunkley <abb@ab2architecture.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 11:08 AM

To: Committee <committee@house.mi.gov>
Subject: | oppose House Bills 4913 and 4914

Madam Clerk,

| hereby request that my name be submitted in opposition to the bills referenced above. | have been a licensed
architect for 50 years, and while trying to reduce the red tape is a noble cause, watering down of our standards and
short-cutting requirements to make it easier to become licensed is not in the best interest of the profession or our
clients. Reduce the red tape in the administrative area instead. Reduce the hurdles in the licensure process, not
the amount of knowledge and experience necessary to uphold the value of the profession.

Likewise, the requirement that 2/3 of a firm's principals be licensed should not be removed, especially in today's
atmosphere of unqualified leaders making dreadful decisions regarding health, safety, and welfare of the public is

now the norm.
Respectfully submitted,

Arnold B Bunkley, AIA
Dakota Soda

From: Michael Shuell <shuellmi@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 10:44 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 and HB 4914

Ms. Soda,

I'd like to note strong opposition to both HB 1943 and HB 4914.

HB 4913 would erode the influence of knowledgeable professionals and increase the input of unqualified
individuals to affect complex and long lasting decisions.

HB 4914 Would weaken the standards to which professional are held. Architecture exams are difficult

for a reason, with a pass rate hovering about 75%. Allowing individuals who have not been able to pass
the exams another path to licensure does not benefit anyone and is a danger to the public.

Thank You

Michael Shuell, AIA

521 S Spinningwheel Ln,
Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304

313.505.4339
Dakota Soda

From: Alissa Kirchhoff <alissa.kirchhoff@norr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 10:01 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition of House Bill 4913 & 4914

Good morning,

| am writing to tell you that | am in opposition of House Bill 4913 & 4914. As a licensed Architect | feel these bills will compromise
the integrity of the profession.

Thank you,

Alissa Kirchhoff AIA, NCARB
Project Architect

T 312 873 1013
alissa.kirchhoff@norr.com

NORR insitecbesion

Dakota Soda

From: Chuck Gemayel <chuck.gemayel@sme-usa.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 11:31 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 & 4914

Good Morning,

As a licensed engineer with Soil and Materials Engineers, Inc (SME), | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because
they weaken educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public
safety

Sincerely,

Chuck A. Gemayel, PE | Chief Operating Officer / Senior Vice President
43980 Plymouth Oaks Blvd. | Plymouth, MI 48170
734.454.9900 o [586.405.3490 c | chuck.gemayel@sme-usa.com

Passionate People Building and Revitalizing our World
Offices in Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio
www,.sme-usa.com

Dakota Soda

From: Troy Nuccio <tjnuccio@hengineers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 3:16 PM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & 4914

Good Afternoon

As a licensed engineer with Hennessey Engineers, Inc., | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken
educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

Regards,

Troy Nuccio, P.E. | Project Manager
Office (734) 759-1600

Mobile (734) 341-3136

13500 Reeck Road, Southgate, MI 48195
400 N. Main St., Suite 303, Milford, MI 48381
(248) 684-1033

COMMUNITY FOUNDATIONS BUILT WITH OPTIMISM
Dakota Soda

From: Doc Grimes <docgrimes@HNTB.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 3:29 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Respectfully and Fundamentally Oppose HB 4913 & 4914

Good Afternoon, Dakota Soda,

My name is Doc Grimes. As a licensed engineer with HNTB Corporation, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they
weaken educational rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety. Michigan's
infrastructure and public safety simply cannot be compromised.

Respectfully Yours,
Doc Grimes

achnology/Traffic Design

NTB CORPORATION

351 Coolidge Road, STE 202 | East Lansing, MI 48823 | hr

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
whom they are addressed. If you are NOT the intended recipient and receive this communication, please delete this
message and any attachments. Thank you.
Dakota Soda

From: Troy Hagon <thagon@acecmi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 4:16 PM
To: Rep. Mike Hoadley (District 99); Rep. Karl Bohnak (District 109); Rep. Brian BeGole

(District 71); Rep. Jay DeBoyer (District 63); Rep. Mike Harris (District 52); Rep. Pat
Outman (District 91); Rep. Alicia St. Germaine (District 62); Rep. Kristian C. Grant (District
82); Rep. Julie Brixie (District 73); Rep. Betsy Coffia (District 103); Joe Tate

Ce: Rep. Matt Hall (District 42); Rep. Bill G. Schuette (District 95); Sarah McNally; Dakota
Soda

Subject: ACEC/Michigan Opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914

Attachments: ACEC MI Letter of Opposition HB 4913.pdf; ACEC MI Letter Opposing HB 4914.pdf

Dear Chair Hoadley and Members of the House Economic Competitiveness Committee,

On behalf of the American Council of Engineering Companies of Michigan (ACEC/Michigan), | am sharing
two attached letters for your consideration ahead of the Committee’s continued discussion and possible
vote on House Bills 4913 and 4914.

° The first letter outlines our opposition to HB 4913, which would allow undefined “equivalents” to an
ABET-accredited engineering degree to be accepted for Professional Engineer (PE) licensure in Michigan.
We believe this change would weaken established educational standards that protect public safety and
the integrity of engineering practice in our state.

e The second letter outlines our opposition to HB 4914, which would remove the long-standing
requirement that at least two-thirds of a firm’s principals, officers, or members be licensed design
professionals in order to offer or provide engineering services in Michigan. This two-thirds rule ensures
that professional judgment and ethical responsibility remain in the hands of licensed engineers —those
legally accountable to protect public safety. Eliminating this safeguard would allow business or financial
interests to outweigh professional oversight and compromise the integrity of Michigan’s design and
infrastructure projects.

ACEC/Michigan represents over a hundred engineering consulting firms employing thousands of
licensed professional engineers across the state. Our members are responsible for designing,
maintaining, and safeguarding Michigan’s critical infrastructure — including roads, bridges, drinking
water systems, wastewater systems, stormwater management, and public buildings. The professional
engineering licensure framework is in place to protect the public. We believe both HB 4913 and HB 4914,
as drafted, would erode that protection.

Thank you for your time and consideration of our perspective. We would welcome the opportunity to
discuss these concerns and answer any questions.

Respectfully,

Troy S. Hagon | Deputy Director

gineers (ASCE) - MI Section | asce.sections.org

1
Dakota Soda

From: Sam Bell <Sam.Bell@itsc2g.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2025 8:25 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Please Oppose HB 4913 & HB 4914

Dear Representative Soda,

| am writing as a licensed engineer and constituent to urge you to oppose House Bills 4913 and 4914. These bills
would weaken the professional standards that protect public safety and the integrity of Michigan’s infrastructure.

HB 4913 would allow undefined “equivalent” degrees to replace ABET-accredited engineering education for
Professional Engineer licensure. ABET accreditation ensures that engineers have the technical and ethical
foundation necessary to design safe roads, bridges, water systems, and other public assets. Moving away from
this national standard risks inconsistent preparation and reduces reciprocity with other states.

HB 4914 removes the requirement that engineering firms be majority-owned by licensed professionals. Since
Michigan does not license firms, this rule is currently the only safeguard ensuring that engineering decisions are
made by those legally and ethically responsible for protecting public safety. Eliminating it creates opportunities for
business interests to override sound professional judgment.

Together, these bills lower Michigan’s standards below national norms and increase the risk of design errors,
system failures, and long-term public cost.

| respectfully ask that you vote NO on HB 4913 and HB 4914 to help ensure Michigan’s infrastructure remains safe,
resilient, and professionally accountable.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,

Sam Bell, PE, PTOE, RSP1
Senior Transportation Engineer/Project Manager

CINCAR CONSULTING GROUP

17199 N. Laurel Park Drive, Suite 204, Livonia, MI 48152
400 Renaissance Center, Suite 2600, Detroit, Ml 48243

C: (616) 951-1528
Sam.Bell@itsc2g.com | www.itsc2g.com

Dakota Soda

From: Kirk Cox <Kirk.cox@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 4:32 PM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: | oppose HB 4913 and HB 4914

Rep. Soda,

As a licensed professional engineer with OHM Advisors, and as a resident of Ann Arbor, | oppose HB 4913 and HB
4914 because they weaken professional standards, educational rigor, and firm oversight - jeopardizing Michigan’s
infrastructure and public safety.

Thank you.

Office: 34000 Plymouth Rd, Livonia, MI 48150
Home: 2861 Hardwick Rd, Ann Arbor, MI 48105

KIRK COX, PE
SENIOR PROJECT MANAGER

OHM Advisorse
D (734) 466-4485 | M (248) 535-4417 | O (734) 522-6711

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Jon Kramer <jon.kramer@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 5:19 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914

To whom it may concern:

As alicensed engineer, and as President of OHM Advisors, a firm that represents over 800
employees, a majority of whom are engineers, | am strongly opposed to HB 4913 & 4914. Michigan
does not license firms or issue Certificate of Authorizations like 42 other states do, and the 2/3 rule
is the only rule left protecting the public infrastructure. We have 12 offices in Michigan and believe
this will be a matter of the deterioration of health, safety and welfare protections for our

residents. Not good.

We are located at:
34000 Plymouth Road

Livonia, MI 48150

I live at
8266 Teahen Road

Brighton, MI 48116

JON KRAMER, P.E.
PRESIDENT

| OHM Advisorse
D (734) 466-4581 | M (734) 679-6274 | O (734) 522-6711

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

OHM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: Czerwinski, Nick D. <nickc@spicergroup.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 6:37 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Ce: mikehoadley@house.mi.gov; karlbohnak@house.mi.gov; brianbegole@house.mi.gov;

jaydeboyer@house.mi.gov; mikeharris@house.mi.gov; patoutman@house.mi.gov,
aliciastgermaine@house.mi.gov; kristiangrant@house.mi.gov, juliebrixie@house.mi.gov;
betsycoffia@house.mi.gov; jtate@house.mi.gov

Subject: Re: Strong Opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914 — Protect Michigan's Engineering
Standards and Public Safety

Dear Committee Clerk Soda,

As a Principal of Spicer Group Inc. and a licensed Professional Engineer in the State of Michigan (License No.
6201058360), holding both a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering from Michigan Technological University, |am
writing to register my strong opposition to House Bills 4913 and 4914.

These bills represent a direct threat to public safety, professional accountability, and the long-term integrity of
Michigan’s infrastructure.

HB 4913 undermines the foundational educational standards that have protected Michigan citizens for decades.
By allowing undefined “equivalents” to an ABET-accredited engineering degree, the bill replaces objective,
nationally recognized rigor with subjective criteria that cannot guarantee competency in critical areas such as
structural design, geotechnical analysis, bridge design, or water resources engineering—disciplines we apply daily
at Spicer Group on behalf of Michigan communities.

HB 4914 eliminates the two-thirds licensed-principal ownership requirement, our state’s only meaningful
safeguard against non-professional control of engineering firms. Without this rule—and absent firm-level licensing

or Certificates of Authorization—profit-driven decision-making could override ethical and safety considerations,
increasing the risk of failures in the bridges, water systems, and transportation networks we design and maintain.

Spicer Group has delivered safe, reliable infrastructure across Michigan for over 80 years. Lowering licensure and
oversight standards jeopardizes that legacy and the public trust we have earned.

| urge the Committee to reject both HB 4913 and HB 4914.

Sincerely,

Nicholas D. Czerwinski, P.E. | Principal
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Office: 989-754-4717 | Cell: 989-529-0256
www.spicergroup.com

Stronger. Safer. Smarter. Spicer.
Dakota Soda

From: Graham, Richard V. <richg@spicergroup.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 4:01 PM

To: Dakota Soda

Ce: Rep. Mike Hoadley (District 99); Rep. Karl Bohnak (District 109); Rep. Brian BeGole

(District 71); Rep. Jay DeBoyer (District 63); Rep. Mike Harris (District 52); Rep. Pat
Outman (District 91); Rep. Alicia St. Germaine (District 62); Rep. Kristian C. Grant (District
82); Rep. Julie Brixie (District 73); Rep. Betsy Coffia (District 103); Joe Tate

Subject: Strong Opposition to HB 4913 & HB 4914 — Protect Michigan's Engineering Standards
and Public Safety

Dear Committee Clerk Soda,

As a Vice President of Spicer Group Inc. and a licensed Professional Engineer in the State of Michigan (License No.
6201062039), holding both a Bachelor of Science and Master of Science in Civil Engineering from Lawrence
Technological University, | am writing to register my strong opposition to House Bills 4913 and 4914.

These bills represent a direct threat to public safety, professional accountability, and the long-term integrity of
Michigan’s infrastructure.

HB 4913 undermines the foundational educational standards that have protected Michigan citizens for decades.
By allowing undefined “equivalents” to an ABET-accredited engineering degree, the bill replaces objective,
nationally recognized rigor with subjective criteria that cannot guarantee competency in critical areas such as
structural design, geotechnical analysis, bridge design, or water resources engineering—disciplines we apply daily
at Spicer Group on behalf of Michigan communities.

HB 4914 eliminates the two-thirds licensed-principal ownership requirement, our state’s only meaningful
safeguard against non-professional control of engineering firms. Without this rule—and absent firm-level licensing
or Certificates of Authorization—profit-driven decision-making could override ethical and safety considerations,
increasing the risk of failures in the bridges, water systems, and transportation networks we design and maintain.

Spicer Group has delivered safe, reliable infrastructure across Michigan for over 80 years. Lowering licensure and
oversight standards jeopardizes that legacy and the public trust we have earned.

| urge the Committee to reject both HB 4913 and HB 4914.
Sincerely,

Rich Graham, P.E. | Vice President
SPICER GROUP, INC.

Cell: 248-495-2927

www. spicergroup.com

Stronger. Safer. Smarter. Spicer.

CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the
addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, or distribution or the taking of any action in reliance
upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete this communication and destroy all copies.
Dakota Soda

From: Jim Rintala <Jim.Rintala@ohm-advisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2025 10:50 AM

To: Dakota Soda

Subject: HB 4913 and HB 4914

As a licensed engineer with OHM Advisors, | oppose HB 4913 & 4914 because they weaken educational
rigor and firm oversight, jeopardizing Michigan’s infrastructure and public safety.

JIM RINTALA, PE
SENIOR PROJECT ENGINEER

OHM Advisorse
D (231) 344-1161 | M (906) 231-3695 | O (231) 344-1150

Advancing Communitiese

OHM-Advisors.com | Linkedin | Facebook | Vimeo

ONM Advisors is an award-winning design firm and workplace.
Dakota Soda

From: jbeythan@macmillanassociates.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 9:42 AM
To: Dakota Soda

Subject: Opposition of House Bill 4913 & 4914.

Good morning, please submit my name as a citizen opposed to House Bills 4913 and 4914.

Thank you,

JONATHAN H. BEYTHAN, PE, SE
PRINCIPAL | INDUSTRIAL DIRECTOR

PHONE: 989.894.4300 x 215 | CELL: 989.737.5737
JBEYTHAN@MACMILLANASSOCIATES.COM

AMACMILLAN ASSOCIATES

MacMillan Associates, Inc. * CONSULTING ENGINEERS * Since 1963 * 714 East Midland Street - Bay
City, MI 48706 - (989) 894-4300 - www.macmillanassociates.com

MacMillan Associates, Inc. message scanned and filtered by Fortimail.

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