Congressional Hearing — Oversight of the Treasury Department's and Federal Reserve's Pandemic Response (2021)

Summary

Printed House hearing record, Serial No. 117–12, titled Oversight of the Treasury Department's and Federal Reserve's Pandemic Response, before the Committee on Financial Services on March 23, 2021. The witnesses are Jerome H. Powell, Chair of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, and Janet L. Yellen, Secretary of the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The committee met via Webex at 11:59 a.m. with Maxine Waters presiding as chairwoman. The opening statement says the American Rescue Plan is delivering additional direct payments, expanded child tax credits, and support for small and minority-owned businesses. The appendix lists written responses to questions for the record from several Representatives.

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Issuer: Congressional materials
Document type: Congressional Hearing
Case: Chrg Chrg 117Hhrg44345 Chrg 117Hhrg44345

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“Congressional Hearing — Oversight of the Treasury Department's and Federal Reserve's Pandemic Response (2021).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/chrg-chrg-117hhrg44345-chrg-117hhrg44345/, SHA-256 e1dc6d0cfaffe1a6a69d7a4600adea5ef9e4c398e506388f6922d008e562719a.

Full text

OVERSIGHT OF THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT’S
AND FEDERAL RESERVE’S PANDEMIC RESPONSE

VIRTUAL HEARING
BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION

MARCH 23, 2021

Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services

Serial No. 117–12

(

U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44–345 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021

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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PATRICK MCHENRY, North Carolina,
NYDIA M. VELÁZQUEZ, New York Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri STEVE STIVERS, Ohio
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado ANN WAGNER, Missouri
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut ANDY BARR, Kentucky
BILL FOSTER, Illinois ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
JUAN VARGAS, California TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
AL LAWSON, Florida ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
CINDY AXNE, Iowa TED BUDD, North Carolina
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
RITCHIE TORRES, New York ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan LANCE GOODEN, Texas
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York VAN TAYLOR, Texas
JESÚS ‘‘CHUY’’ GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts

CHARLA OUERTATANI, Staff Director

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CONTENTS

Page
Hearing held on:
March 23, 2021 ................................................................................................. 1
Appendix:
March 23, 2021 ................................................................................................. 39

WITNESSES

TUESDAY, MARCH 23, 2021
Powell, Hon. Jerome H., Chair, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve
System ................................................................................................................... 7
Yellen, Hon. Janet L., Secretary, U.S. Department of the Treasury .................. 6

APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
Powell, Hon. Jerome H. .................................................................................... 40
Yellen, Hon. Janet L. ....................................................................................... 45

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Powell, Hon. Jerome H.:
Written responses to questions for the record from Chairwoman Waters ... 58
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative Beatty 69
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative David-
son .................................................................................................................. 71
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative Hill .... 74
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative Meeks 79
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative
Timmons ........................................................................................................ 82
Yellen, Hon. Janet L.:
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative Meeks 83
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative Green . 85
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative
Pressley .......................................................................................................... 86
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative
Nikema Williams .......................................................................................... 87
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative
Huizenga ........................................................................................................ 90
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative Hill .... 92
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative
Timmons ........................................................................................................ 94

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OVERSIGHT OF THE TREASURY
DEPARTMENT’S AND FEDERAL
RESERVE’S PANDEMIC RESPONSE

Tuesday, March 23, 2021

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:59 a.m., via Webex,
Hon. Maxine Waters [chairwoman of the committee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives Waters, Maloney, Sherman,
Meeks, Scott, Green, Cleaver, Perlmutter, Himes, Foster, Vargas,
Gottheimer, Lawson, Axne, Casten, Lynch, Adams, Dean, Garcia of
Illinois, Garcia of Texas; McHenry, Lucas, Posey, Luetkemeyer,
Huizenga, Stivers, Wagner, Barr, Williams of Texas, Hill, Emmer,
Zeldin, Loudermilk, Mooney, Davidson, Budd, Kustoff, Hollings-
worth, Rose, Steil, Timmons, and Taylor.
Chairwoman WATERS. The Financial Services Committee will
come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of
the committee at any time.
As a reminder, I ask all Members to keep themselves muted
when they are not being recognized by the Chair. The staff has
been instructed not to mute Members, except when a Member is
not being recognized by the Chair and there is inadvertent back-
ground noise.
Members are also reminded that they may only participate in
one remote proceeding at a time. If you are participating here
today, please keep your camera on, and if you choose to attend a
different remote preceding, please turn your camera off.
Before we begin today’s hearing, I would like to inform all Mem-
bers that our witnesses today have a hard stop at 2:15 p.m., East-
ern Standard Time.
Today’s hearing is entitled, ‘‘Oversight of the Treasury Depart-
ment’s and Federal Reserve’s Pandemic Response.’’
I now recognize myself for 4 minutes to give an opening state-
ment.
I would like to welcome Secretary Yellen and Chair Powell. I am
very pleased that with Democrats’ passage of President Biden’s
American Rescue Plan, help is now arriving for millions of strug-
gling individuals, families, and small businesses all across this
country. The Biden plan delivers much-needed relief in the form of
additional direct payments, expanded child tax credits, emergency
rental, homeowner, and employment assistance, support for small
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and minority-owned businesses, as well as funding for other key
programs. The American Rescue Plan (ARP) is exactly what the na-
tion needs in the midst of this ongoing crisis, and it will help to
put us on the path to a faster and more equitable recovery. I am
also very relieved that we have President Biden’s capable leader-
ship in the White House, and that he is putting in place a team
to ensure that the pandemic response and the implementation of
relief programs is efficient, effective, and a top priority so that we
can beat this deadly virus.
I would like to take a moment, as we prepare to receive testi-
mony from Secretary Yellen for the first time in her role as Treas-
ury Secretary, to acknowledge the historic nature of her appoint-
ment. Starting with Alexander Hamilton in September of 1789, the
Department of the Treasury has exclusively been led by men until
now. Over 231 years later, Secretary Yellen became the first
woman to serve as Treasury Secretary. She is also the first person
to serve as Treasury Secretary after serving as head of both the
Federal Reserve and the White House Council of Economic Advis-
ers.
Secretary Yellen, we applaud you, and our committee looks for-
ward to continuing to work closely with you. Secretary Yellen, I
would also like to thank you for your work on negotiating an in-
crease in the special drawing rights of $650 billion at the G-7, as
I have previously called for. This increase will help vulnerable
countries to fight the pandemic and will boost the United States’
and global economies.
Chair Powell, I would like to thank you for following my rec-
ommendation on bank capital requirements and ending the tem-
porary exemptions to the Supplemental Leverage Ratio (SLR) for
big banks. We need to ensure the stability of our financial system
during this continuing crisis, and strong capital requirements are
the cornerstone of appropriate prudential bank regulation. While
we are on the right path with the passage of the American Rescue
Plan and the Biden Administration’s strong leadership, we still
have a long road ahead of us. Millions of people are still out of
work, and threats to the economy remain. We must ensure that
there is indeed a sustained and equitable recovery from this his-
toric crisis, so I look forward to your testimony.
I now recognize the ranking member of the committee, the gen-
tleman from North Carolina, Mr. McHenry, for 4 minutes.
Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I want to
thank Secretary Yellen and Chair Powell for being here today.
It is clear we are in a very different place today than we were
last March. Our economy is ready to safely reopen, and economic
projections are increasingly positive. Despite those facts, Democrats
still chose to muscle through their partisan spending package, only
9 percent of which goes toward defeating the virus. This package
was not targeted to help those most in need, and does not get
Americans safely back to work or kids back in the classroom. The
data tells us that targeted support is the key to really reaching
those groups who need it most, and with the addition of $1.9 tril-
lion, there has been a great deal of debate about what will happen
with this amount of liquidity in our financial markets.

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Here is what we do know. Increased taxes, will impede growth,
and, as we saw in 2008 and 2009, it is harder to address long-term
unemployment. We see our Central Bank’s balance sheet growing
to levels unseen in human history. Pre-COVID, we experienced a
roaring economy spurred by appropriate regulation, lower taxes,
and innovative solutions. Instead of building on these gains, my
Democrat colleagues are approaching this crisis like they did in
2009, doing it all over again, rehashing old, failed policies that will
not build lasting growth and lasting prosperity.
Things are much different. It is a much different country now
and a much different economy now, and we should remain forward-
thinking and seek bipartisan solutions to really address the needs
of our economy.
I am grateful for the opportunity to be with you here today under
the guise of a Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security
(CARES) Act oversight hearing, although it is interesting that the
CARES funding was rescinded in December.
I think it would be more productive to discuss this larger COVID
package that was just passed, and I believe there is a lot to discuss
there. To put that mammoth $1.9 trillion bill into perspective, let’s
put it this way: The Biden Administration is going to spend $3.7
billion on average, per day, for every day remaining in 2021. That
equals $43,000 per second. A lot of that money will flow directly
from the Treasury to States and cities, which introduces a whole
new set of challenges with respect to preventing waste and fraud.
And unlike the bipartisan CARES Act, this bill does not contain
any new layers of oversight to address these challenges.
Secretary Yellen, at our first CARES quarterly hearing in June
of 2020, we had a chance to run through our expectations with re-
spect to transparency with your predecessor.
At that hearing, Secretary Mnuchin committed to providing key
programmatic data to congressional committees to assist oversight
responsibilities, and he followed through on that commitment. Sec-
retary Mnuchin also committed to working with the various over-
sight bodies with jurisdiction under the CARES Act, including the
Pandemic Response Accountability Committee, the Congressional
Oversight Commission, three Department’s Inspectors General, and
the Government Accountability Office (GAO). Now that we have an
additional $1.9 trillion to track, I would ask for your commitment
along those same lines as Secretary Mnuchin committed. That
would be encouraging, if you continue the practice of your prede-
cessor to cooperate with our committee, both Democrats and Re-
publicans, to ensure appropriate oversight.
I want to thank you both for your testimony today, and I look
forward to the discussion. I yield back.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much. I now recognize the
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, who is also the Chair of our
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, for 1 minute.
Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I thank you so
much for your leadership during these turbulent times. Madam
Chairwoman, as the CARES Act funding continues to flow, I am
greatly concerned about the mechanics of how these funds will
reach their intended beneficiaries. There are two recently-author-

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ized pandemic response programs the Treasury Department is now
rolling out, in which I have a special interest.
The first is the December COVID package that included $9 bil-
lion in emergency capital investment as a program. It is called the
Emergency Capital Investment Program (ECIP), and will provide
capital investments and grants to strengthen Community Develop-
ment Financial Institutions (CDFIs), and Minority Depository In-
stitutions (MDIs). I am looking forward to hearing about the plans
for engaging eligible MDIs and CDFIs regarding this new resource.
The second assistance to small businesses, authorized in the
American Rescue Plan, is through the State Small Business Credit
Initiative, also known as the SSBCI. This $10 billion program pro-
vides funding, $2.5 billion of which will go to minority-owned busi-
nesses, and that can make a real impact in the hardest-hit busi-
nesses. I look forward to hearing from the witnesses in terms of
how these programs will benefit the end users. I yield back.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you. I now recognize the sub-
committee’s ranking member, Mr. Barr, for 1 minute.
Mr. BARR. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Secretary Yellen,
congratulations on your confirmation. I look forward to working
with you. And Chairman Powell, thank you for being here.
Last year, in response to the pandemic, Republicans and Demo-
crats worked together on multiple bills that were temporary, tar-
geted, and tied to COVID. In partnership with the Federal Reserve
and Treasury, we were able to direct aid where it was needed. Un-
fortunately, despite last year’s bipartisan cooperation, the Majority
rammed through a partisan $2 trillion deficit spending bill that is
a Keynesian wish list for their pre-COVID priorities.
While stimulative policies may look good in the short term, I
worry about the unintended consequences for mid- and long-term
growth. I fear the toxic cocktail of massive deficit spending, when
we had $1 trillion of funding still unspent from last year, increas-
ing risk of inflation, higher long-term interest rates, and unprece-
dented accommodative monetary policy that I fear is addicting our
economy on easy money, the promise of growth-destroying tax in-
creases, and an avalanche of regulation, which includes unrelated
climate and ESG earnings, will stifle long-term prosperity.
I hope we can work together to mitigate future damage by enact-
ing pro-growth, market-oriented solutions to position our economy
for the long term. Thank you, and I yield back.
Mr. MCHENRY. Madam Chairwoman?
Chairwoman WATERS. Yes, Mr. McHenry?
Mr. MCHENRY. Madam Chairwoman, I ask a point of personal
privilege to recognize my staff director, the Republican staff direc-
tor on the Financial Services Committee, Stephen Cote.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Chairwoman
Waters and I know from our service here on the Hill that without
competent, good staff, this institution couldn’t work. And I think on
a bipartisan basis, we know that our staff carries out a lot of the
things that we try to achieve legislatively and in terms of oversight
and working with the Administration to help the American people.
So, Steven Cote has served our institution quite well. He will be
leaving us in mid-April to go with an establishment downtown to

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go into the private sector, and I want to wish him well. I want to
thank him for his service to the American people, and to our gov-
ernment. He has served in Congress, most notably as the staff di-
rector of the House Rules Committee before coming to this fine
committee, the House Financial Services Committee, to lead com-
mittee Republican staff. He has served in the Majority and the Mi-
nority in the House of Representatives. He also served in the Ad-
ministration in the Office of Management and Budget and various
other functions. He is a patriot who served his country and served
his country well.
I want to thank him for his work, his tenacious spirit, his love
for the staff and the people that he gets to work with, a love for
the institution and our government, and a love for his country. And
I want to thank Stephen for his great work for me over the last
21⁄2 years, for the good work that we have been able to get done.
So with that, I want to say thank you to Mr. Cote for his service,
and, Madam Chairwoman, I yield back.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Ranking Mem-
ber. I would like to associate myself with you, and I join with you
in recognizing Stephen’s contributions to the committee and to the
Congress. Stephen, also called, ‘‘Cote’’ by friends and enemies alike,
has had a long and distinguished career in the United States Con-
gress and in the Executive Branch. During his 20-year career, he
has served in a variety of positions and institutions. To say he is
a tough negotiator is an understatement. He is tenacious, he is
fierce, and he is stubborn. He also has a talent for frustrating sev-
eral members of my staff with his demands. He is a fierce advocate
for his ranking member and his party, and I do respect that. So,
Stephen, neither I nor my staff are sorry to see you go.
[laughter]
Chairwoman WATERS. But in all seriousness, on behalf of the
Democratic Majority, I thank Stephen for his service to the Amer-
ican people and wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.
Thank you very much.
Mr. MCHENRY. Madam Chairwoman?
Chairwoman WATERS. Yes?
Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you for that kindness. Thank you for that
kindness and the spirit with which you offer it. We both have tal-
ented staff, and sometimes they go toe-to-toe on our behalf, but it
is always for love of our country, but sometimes for the love of the
game, too. So anyway, thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
[laughter]
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Ranking Mem-
ber. That is so true.
I now want to welcome today’s distinguished witnesses to the
committee.
First, I want to welcome the Honorable Janet Yellen, Secretary
of the United States Department of the Treasury, for her first ap-
pearance before the committee in her new role. Secretary Yellen
has testified a number of times before the committee in her prior
capacity as the Chair of the Federal Reserve, where she served
from 2010 to 2014 as Vice Chair, and from 2014 through 2018 as
Chair, so I do not believe she needs any further introduction.

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I also want to welcome our other distinguished witness, the Hon-
orable Jerome Powell, Chairman of the Board of Governors of the
Federal Reserve System. He has served on the Board of Governors
since 2012, and as its Chair since 2018. Chair Powell has pre-
viously testified before the committee, and I believe he also does
not need any further introduction.
Each of you will have 5 minutes to summarize your testimony.
You should be able to see a timer on your screen that will indicate
how much time you have left, and a chime will go off at the end
of your time. I would ask you to be mindful of the timer, and quick-
ly wrap up your testimony if you hear the chime. And without ob-
jection, your prepared statements will be made a part of the record.
Secretary Yellen, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to
present your oral testimony.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JANET L. YELLEN,
SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Secretary YELLEN. Chairwoman Waters, Ranking Member
McHenry, and members of the committee, thank you for having
me. We are meeting at a hopeful moment for the economy, but still
a daunting one. While we are seeing signs of recovery, we should
be clear-eyed about the hole we are digging out of. The country is
still down nearly 10 million jobs from its pre-pandemic peak.
When Congress passed the CARES and Consolidated Appropria-
tions Acts last year, it gave the government some powerful tools to
address the crisis, but upon taking office, I worried that they
weren’t powerful enough. After all, there were and still are some
very deep pockets of pain in the data: 1 in 10 homeowners with a
mortgage are behind on their payments; and almost 1 in 5 renters
are behind on their rent. There are 22 million people who say they
don’t have enough food to eat: 1 in 10 adults are hungry in Amer-
ica. I looked at data like these and I worried that the COVID econ-
omy was going to keep hurting millions of people now and haunt
them long after the health emergency was over.
We know that when the foundations of someone’s life falls apart,
when they lose the roof over their head or don’t have the ability
to eat dinner every night, the pain can weigh on them for years.
Their earnings potential is permanently lowered, and am I worried
about this happening on a mass scale. That is why I advocated
very hard for the American Rescue Plan, and why it is my first and
my most enthusiastic message today. Thank you.
With the passage of the Rescue Plan, I am confident that people
will reach the other side of this pandemic with the foundations of
their lives intact, and I believe they will be met there by a growing
economy. In fact, I think we may see a return to full employment
next year. Of course, the speed and strength of our recovery de-
pends, in part, on how we implement the legislation. Treasury is
tasked with much of that work, and there is nothing that I or my
team take more seriously. We appreciate your oversight on this
matter, and I want to briefly tell you about how we have been
working.
Since taking office 2 months ago, we have been expediting relief
to the areas of greatest need, for example, small businesses, and
especially the smallest small businesses, which are disproportion-

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ately owned by women and people of color. The pandemic has hit
these businesses hard. The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP)
was an early lifeline, but because of issues with the program’s de-
sign, the first rounds often did not reach the small sole proprietor-
ships. We are addressing that now. We worked with the Small
Business Administration (SBA) to tweak how the program was im-
plemented. It is allowing the PPP to reach millions more micro-
businesses and entrepreneurs, especially in rural and low-income
areas.
We are also building capacity to support these communities over
the longer term. Because of the December legislation, Treasury
now has $12 billion to inject into Community Development Finan-
cial Institutions (CDFIs) and Minority Depository Institutions
(MDIs). In turn, these CDFIs and MDIs can lend that capital out,
helping people buy homes and start businesses in places that the
financial services sector traditionally hasn’t served well.
Then, there are the families I spoke about, the ones struggling
to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. The American
Rescue Plan provides more than $30 billion to help renters and
homeowners at risk of losing their homes, and we are making sure
that assistance flows as efficiently as possible. For instance, the
previous Administration put in place rules that required tenants
and landlords to provide quite a bit of documentation to get rental
assistance, including detailed statements about their income, but
some people don’t have access to those documents. We are cutting
through the red tape for them while still taking responsible steps
to prevent fraud and abuse. And, of course, we have been sending
direct payments to Americans, a lot of Americans. As of last week,
we had issued over 90 million payments.
And all of this is just a fraction of Treasury’s work. There are
so many more relief programs, including one that will provide $350
billion in aid to State and local governments. Implementing all of
it is more complicated than it sounds, and we are working closely
with stakeholders to make sure these programs are both efficient
and effective.
Behind these many relief programs, these millions of trans-
actions, is a staff of very dedicated and very tired Treasury and
IRS employees. My final word is to them: Thank you. You are put-
ting on a master class in how government should work in the fur-
nace of a crisis, and I am grateful to be your colleague.
With that, I am happy to answer any questions you have.
[The prepared statement of Secretary Yellen can be found on
page 45 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much, Secretary Yellen.
Chair Powell, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present
your oral testimony.

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JEROME H. POWELL, CHAIR,
BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM
Mr. POWELL. Chairwoman Waters, Ranking Member McHenry,
and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to
discuss the measures that we have taken to address the hardship
wrought by the pandemic.

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I would like to start by noting the upcoming 1-year anniversary
of the CARES Act. With unanimous approval, Congress provided by
far the fastest and largest response to any post-war economic
downturn, offering fiscal support for households, businesses,
healthcare providers, and State and local governments. This his-
torically-important legislation provided critical support in our na-
tion’s hour of need. As the virus arrived in force, our immediate
challenge was to limit the severity and duration of the fallout to
avoid longer-run damage. At the Fed, we also acted with unprece-
dented speed and force, using the full range of policy tools at our
disposal.
Today, the situation is much improved. While the economic fall-
out has been real and widespread, the worst was avoided by swift
and vigorous action from Congress and the Federal Reserve, from
across government and cities and towns, and from individual com-
munities and the private sector. More people held onto their jobs,
more businesses kept their doors open, and more incomes were
saved, but the recovery is far from complete. So, at the Fed, we will
continue to provide the economy the support that it needs for as
long as it takes.
As we have emphasized throughout the pandemic, the path of
the economy continues to depend on the course of the virus. Since
January, the number of new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths has
fallen, and ongoing vaccinations offer hope for a return to more
normal conditions later this year. In the meantime, continued so-
cial distancing and mask-wearing will help us reach that goal as
soon as possible.
Indicators of economic activity and employment have turned up
recently. Household spending on goods has risen notably so far this
year, although spending on services remains low, especially in sec-
tors that typically require in-person gatherings. The housing sector
has more than fully recovered from the downturn, while business
investment and manufacturing production have also picked up. As
with overall economic activity, conditions in the labor market have
recently improved. Employment rose by 379,000 in February as the
leisure and hospitality sector recouped about two-thirds of the jobs
it lost in December and January.
Recovery has progressed more quickly than generally expected
and looks to be strengthening. This is due in significant part to the
unprecedented fiscal and monetary policy actions I mentioned,
which provided essential support to households, businesses, and
communities. However, the sectors of the economy most adversely
affected by the resurgence of the virus and by greater social
distancing remain weak, and the unemployment rate, still elevated
at 6.2 percent, underestimates the shortfall, particularly as labor
market participation remains notably below pre-pandemic levels.
We welcome this progress, but will not lose sight of the millions of
Americans who are still hurting, including lower-wage workers in
the services sector, African Americans, Hispanics, and other minor-
ity groups that have been especially hard hit.
The Fed’s response has been guided by our mandate to promote
maximum employment and stable prices for the American people,
along with our responsibility to promote stability of the financial
system. When financial markets came under intense pressure last

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year, we took broad and forceful actions, deploying both our con-
ventional and emergency lending tools to more directly support the
flow of credit. Our actions, taken together, helped unlock more
than $2 trillion in funding to support businesses—large and
small—nonprofits, and State and local governments between April
and December. This support, in turn, has helped organizations to
not have to shutter their businesses and put employers in a better
position to both keep workers on and to hire them back as the re-
covery continues.
Our programs serve as a backstop to key credit markets and help
restore the flow of credit from private lenders through normal
channels. We deployed these lending powers to an unprecedented
extent last year. Our emergency lending powers require the ap-
proval of the Treasury and are available only in very unusual cir-
cumstances. Many of these programs were supported by funding
from the CARES Act.
Those facilities provided essential support through a very dif-
ficult year. They are now closed, and the Federal Reserve has re-
turned the large majority of the Treasury’s CARES Act equity, as
required by law. Our other emergency lending facilities are fol-
lowing suit imminently, although we recently extended the Pay-
check Protection Program Liquidity Facility (PPPLF) for another
quarter to continue to support the Paycheck Protection Program.
Everything the Fed does is in service to our public mission. We
are committed to using our full range of tools to support the econ-
omy and to help ensure that the recovery from this difficult period
will be as robust as possible on behalf of communities, families,
and businesses across the country. Thank you. I look forward to
your questions.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Powell can be found on
page 40 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very, very much, Chairman
Powell. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions.
On March 11th, President Biden signed the American Rescue
Plan Act into law, providing an additional $1.9 trillion package
that is already helping individuals, families, and small businesses.
The American Rescue Plan also includes $77 billion in our commit-
tee’s jurisdiction, including $21.5 billion to pay back rent and fu-
ture rent payments, which will not only help renters remain stably
housed, but support small landlords who have also been struggling.
Congress has now provided the Treasury Department with more
than $46 billion in emergency rental assistance to distribute to
States, local communities, Tribes, and Territories to help struggling
families pay their rent and utilities. My State of California is ex-
pected to receive somewhere in the amount of $4.67 billion.
However, I am growing increasingly concerned with how the pro-
gram is being implemented by grantees. In particular, California
just launched a program that greatly limits the amount of assist-
ance renters can receive, even if they owe more.
Secretary Yellen, what has been the progress so far in imple-
menting the program? What guidance is Treasury providing to en-
sure that grantees are setting up programs that actually stabilize
renters and make landlords whole?

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Secretary YELLEN. Thank you for that question, Chairwoman
Waters. We have distributed the money to State, local, and Tribal
grantees. The Consolidated Appropriations Act that started this
program does specify that grantees can only provide assistance to
households where one or more individuals are experiencing unem-
ployment or hardship, that they demonstrate a risk of experiencing
homelessness or housing stability, and that the household has in-
come at 80 percent of the area median or below, and that the as-
sistance can be for up to 15 months. We are trying to provide
grantees with the flexibility to establish their programs and oper-
ate them within those parameters, but with a great deal of flexi-
bility to address local needs as they see fit.
The role of the Treasury here is to provide policy guidance so
that grantees can establish and follow their own program policies
to meet local needs, and we are developing outreach and technical
assistance so that our grantees can understand best practices. Of
course, we have a role in monitoring to make sure that the pay-
ments are reaching the intended populations.
Chairwoman WATERS. Secretary Yellen, I hate to interrupt you—
my time is going to be up shortly—but I am very concerned about
the flexibility that the States have. I don’t really know what all of
that means, but I do know that there is a lot of confusion because
some States had moratorium programs, some cities had morato-
rium programs, the Federal Government has a moratorium pro-
gram, and so I think that is confusing to our renters. In addition
to that, for the State of California to say that they are going to pay
80 percent of the rental assistance rather than 100 percent bothers
me somewhat, and I don’t know what other States are doing. I
know that the government does provide guidance, so I would like
to know if you can think about any role that we can play to help
straighten out the confusion and to help stabilize this rental assist-
ance?
Secretary YELLEN. Congresswoman, we did distribute frequently
asked questions, revised from the previous Administration, to try
to provide additional guidance, but if you have concerns, my staff
will be glad to work with you and your office to see if it is possible
to address them.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much. I appreciate that,
because there is confusion out there, and I am worried about what
is happening with this confusion, and whether or not our landlords
are going to abandon us and not go for another moratorium, and
so it is a lot of questions. I will get back to you, and thank you so
very much.
With that, I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. McHenry
for 5 minutes.
Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And, look,
Chairman Powell and Secretary Yellen, I previously asked ques-
tions about the independence of the Fed, trying to get the Secretary
of the Treasury to opine about that. Dr. Yellen, I would suggest
that maybe I need to skip that question with you. I think you have
very practical understanding and knowledge here at play, and you
will treat your successor as you wish to have been treated since he
is now sitting in your chair.
[laughter]

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Mr. MCHENRY. Well, it is nice to have two folks who understand
this in these respective seats, but Chairman Powell, I want to
begin with you and talk about inflation. There continues to be a
great deal of speculation that we should be worried about infla-
tionary pressures, particularly after the passage of the most recent
$1.9 trillion spending bill, the so-called stimulus or COVID stim-
ulus bill, and then we see recent press reports of an additional $3
trillion of spending contemplated by this Administration. Does the
Fed share that there are inflationary pressures and concerns with
this rate of spending? What is the view now?
Mr. POWELL. Thanks. Let me start by saying that we are strong-
ly committed to our price stability mandate, which, along with our
maximum employment mandate—those are the two mandates that
you have given us. We consider that inflation that is 2 percent over
time, in fact, inflation that averages 2 percent over time. We do ex-
pect that inflation will move up over the course of this year, first,
because of what we call base effects. The very low readings of
March and April of last year dropped out of the 12-month calcula-
tion, and, mechanically, it rises, but that goes away quite quickly.
Possibly after that, we will see a situation in which, as the econ-
omy reopens and vaccinations continues, there could be a surge in
spending and there could be some bottlenecks in the economy. We
see some of that now. We might see some upward pressure on
prices.
Our best view is that the effect on inflation will be neither par-
ticularly large nor persistent, and part of that just is that we have
been living in a world of strong disinflationary pressures around
the world really for a quarter of a century, and we don’t think that
a one-time surge in spending leading to temporary price increases
would disrupt that. However, we have the tools to deal with that.
We remain strongly committed to inflation expectations anchored
at 2 percent, and we will use our tools as appropriate to achieve
that.
As far as further fiscal policy is concerned, it is not up to us to
comment. As we have discussed on some occasions, we don’t com-
ment on fiscal policy. We try not to, particularly on specific bills
and things like that, so I will leave that to others.
Mr. MCHENRY. Secretary Yellen, about fiscal policy, we have, as
Chairwoman Waters highlighted, rental assistance, the $25 billion
of rental assistance to individuals and families who were in arrears
because of the lockdown, and we have tried to support them with
some rental assistance. What guardrails has the Department of the
Treasury put in place to ensure that the funds are actually
prioritized for individuals and families who are in rental arrears?
Secretary YELLEN. It is Treasury’s job to establish guardrails,
and we have done that by issuing a set of frequently-answered
questions that are essentially guidance about how the money needs
to be used. It clarifies that grantees have flexibility, but also that
there are the requirements of the statute, and that we will follow
up to make sure that the payments are going to eligible households
and that the guidelines of the program are being followed.
Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you. Thank you, Secretary Yellen. The
final question I have is about oversight. Secretary Yellen, your
predecessor agreed to very onerous, and rigid, and strong oversight

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for the CARES Act, this current $1.9 trillion has rescinded all of
those things, sadly, except this quarterly hearing. And so, what I
would like to hear is your voluntary commitment to work with Con-
gress, the GAO, the special inspectors general, and the Congres-
sional Oversight Commission, as well as this committee.
Secretary YELLEN. I think oversight is very important, and I
pledge to work with this committee and the oversight groups.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much.
Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you, Secretary Yellen, and congratulations
on your new role. Thank you.
Secretary YELLEN. Thank you.
Chairwoman WATERS. I now recognize Mrs. Maloney for 5 min-
utes.
Mrs. MALONEY. Thank you. Thank you so much, Chairwoman
Waters, for having this hearing, and welcome, Chairman Powell
and Secretary Yellen. And as the first female Secretary of the
Treasury in history, and the first to head the Fed, we are so proud
of you—
Secretary YELLEN. Thank you.
Mrs. MALONEY. —and of your many accomplishments, Secretary
Yellen. And as this is Women’s History Month, you are certainly
inspiring many young women with more confidence and aspirations
with your leadership, so thank you.
As you know, at the end of last year, we were able to reach a
bipartisan compromise on my Corporate Transparency Act, which
will crack down on anonymous shell companies, the vehicle of
choice for criminal activity, money laundering, and terrorism fi-
nancing. I want to thank Ranking Member McHenry for his will-
ingness to compromise and Chairwoman Waters for her steadfast
support of this bill over many, many years.
The bill requires companies to disclose their true beneficial own-
ers to FinCEN, which is an arm of Treasury, and FinCEN will col-
lect this information in a database which is intended to be state-
of-the-art with privacy and security protection. Law enforcement
calls it the most important tool that has been given to them to
track illegal money activity in 30 years, and implementation of this
is going to be a massive undertaking and will require an enormous
amount of resources and manpower at Treasury. I worked on this
bill as a top priority for 12 years, and implementing it and getting
it up and running is a top priority of mine. It is incredibly impor-
tant, I believe, to our national security. We have to get it right.
And so my question to you is, will you commit to making bene-
ficial ownership one of your top priorities as Treasury Secretary?
We have 2 years to implement it, and I think it will make all of
us safer. I think it is extremely important.
Secretary YELLEN. I completely agree with you. It is a very im-
portant piece of legislation, and it is one of our highest priorities
to implement this promptly and to get it right. We have a hiring
plan. We recognize that significant resources will be required, and
we are trying to obtain them. We have plans for how to collect the
required database, and we are actively working to implement this
very important piece of legislation.
Mrs. MALONEY. Thank you. I want to build on Chairwoman
Waters’ question. I am not going to repeat all of the things that

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were in the important Recovery Act. But my question to you, Sec-
retary Yellen and Chairman Powell, is what steps can we take to
ensure we don’t lose a generation of workers who never return to
the workforce, or that they face these depressed wages moving for-
ward? We know that over 111⁄2 women lost their jobs, compared to
9 million men. Black and Latino women suffered the highest rate
of all, and that the women’s labor force participation is down 2 per-
cent, and the families are suffering. We have many aspects of it.
A lot she mentioned, from rent to food, to help in so many ways,
but I am concerned about this labor force that has been hurt. What
can we do to help them get back into the labor force? And my ques-
tion is to you, Secretary Yellen, first, then to Chairman Powell.
Secretary YELLEN. First of all, in the short term, the American
Rescue Plan contains substantial support for minorities, and par-
ticularly for women who have been forced to drop out of the labor
market. There is an important increase in the child tax credit that
is going to result in, along with other provisions, a 50-percent re-
duction in the child poverty rate. There is money to open and sup-
port school openings promptly. There is an enhanced child and de-
pendent care credit with a successful vaccination program to get
women back into the labor force. And longer term, when we have
gotten to the other side of this pandemic, we hope to address in the
jobs package over the longer term some of the factors that have re-
sulted in low wages and low labor force participation for women.
Mrs. MALONEY. Thank you. My time has expired.
Chairwoman WATERS. Mrs. Wagner, the gentlelady from Mis-
souri, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. WAGNER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you,
Chairman Powell and Secretary Yellen, for joining us today. Sec-
retary Yellen, and I would ask you please, respectfully, if you
would keep your answers brief, as the country begins to safely re-
open and our economy recovers, is examining changes to tax policy
the correct direction?
Secretary YELLEN. We expect to examine changes to tax policy
along with programs that will address some of the longstanding
problems that have held down our productivity and labor supply in
the United States. We will address infrastructure, risks from cli-
mate change, education, and training.
Mrs. WAGNER. Let me ask you, Madam Secretary, what impact
would this action have on jobs and workers’ wages?
Secretary YELLEN. I think a package that consists of investments
in people, investments in infrastructure, will help to create good
jobs in the American economy, and changes to this tax structure
will help to pay for those programs.
Mrs. WAGNER. Secretary Yellen, what tends to be the impact, I
guess I would ask, on American consumers, my constituents, when
corporate taxes are raised? Do the costs usually tend to be passed
down to them?
Secretary YELLEN. The impact of changes in corporate taxes has
been studied by economists for a long time, and the impact of them
on prices and on consumers is very unclear from existing studies.
We do need to raise revenues in a fair way to support the spending
that this economy needs to be competitive and productive, and—

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Mrs. WAGNER. Secretary Yellen, if I could, I think we know that
raising the corporate tax rate results in higher costs for small busi-
nesses, schools, and American households. Then why, as this coun-
try begins to reopen and recover economically, would the Biden Ad-
ministration be proposing tax policies which would, in the end,
hurt American families and millions of struggling small busi-
nesses?
Secretary YELLEN. The Biden Administration is not going to pro-
pose policies that hurt small businesses or Americans. The Biden
Administration is going to propose investments this economy has
long needed to be competitive and productive and supports our—
Mrs. WAGNER. With all due respect, ma’am, I would say this.
Certainly, raising taxes on business and industry is going to affect
consumers and households and American families in a very adverse
way. Is this being proposed, these tax increases, to offset the costs
of the recently-enacted partisan stimulus package, ma’am?
Secretary YELLEN. No, the stimulus package, the American Res-
cue Plan, was not funded with any increases in taxes, but a longer-
term plan that addresses critical relief—
Mrs. WAGNER. I really have—
Secretary YELLEN. —for this economy probably would be accom-
panied by some revenue raises.
Mrs. WAGNER. Yes, I would say so, and I would say that the plan
as it exists right now hasn’t been paid for. For example, let me just
say this. Last month’s lumber prices hit an all-time high, doubling
in price from just 3 months ago. Gasoline prices jumped 6.4 percent
over the previous month, while electricity and natural gas prices
rose 3.9 percent, not to mention housing prices and other manufac-
turing supply chain goods. Are these steady increases a sign that
once the economy fully reopens, we are likely to see parts of the
economy where demand is intense, at least for a period of time,
leading to some additional price pressures?
Let me ask you this, Chairman Powell, in my limited time. Could
you describe in detail the wide range of policy tools the Fed has
at its disposal to address what is obvious inflationary pressures
that we are seeing already?
Mr. POWELL. Our most basic tools here are to try to achieve price
stability, and those principally are interest rates and moving inter-
est rates up and down. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, though,
our best expectation is that there will be modest upward pressure
on prices this year, but that they won’t be particularly large or per-
sistent into the future. But we do have those tools, and we will use
them.
Mrs. WAGNER. Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you. The gentleman from Cali-
fornia, Mr. Sherman, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. SHERMAN. Thank you. Addressing the comments of Mrs.
Wagner, most of the studies I have seen, and obviously the Sec-
retary of the Treasury has seen far more, indicate that increases
in corporate income taxes are not passed through to consumers, but
that the incidence of that tax is borne by those who invest capital,
and which is disproportionately the top 1 percent. In contrast, sales
taxes are passed through to consumers.

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I want to use most of my 5 minutes just to bring to the attention
of our two august witnesses some matters that I hope will merit
their personal attention in the days to come. Madam Secretary,
your predecessor committed to me, from a foreign policy stand-
point, that the Treasury Department would put a reasonable
amount of lawyer hours into doing a tax treaty with Armenia, and
I hope that policy will continue now that the Iran government is
ready to proceed, having had some discord in the past.
Madam Secretary, you have delayed till May 17th, the April 15th
deadline for Form 1040. It is very important that you do the same
for the Form 1040ES, the estimated tax payments, a voucher that
is usually prepared at the same time and is so important to gig
workers.
Madam Secretary, 2 days ago, the IRS issued a report indicating
that one-fifth of the earnings of the top 1 percent are going
untaxed. I hope very much that you will work with Congress to re-
place and restore the 15,000 enforcement officers that the IRS has
lost in the past decade. I used to head the second-largest tax agen-
cy in our country, and it is clear that putting more effort into tax
collection, particularly from the top 1 percent, will collect many
more times the cost in additional revenue, and will, I think, add
to our social cohesion because wage earners are paying their taxes.
Madam Secretary, I hope you will focus on a letter from the
State of California of May 19th desperately needing guidance on
the Recovery Act, especially showing a decision by California to
conform to Federal law. So, Federal law recently is very generous
to the PPP small businesses. If California conforms to that law,
that isn’t regarded as a tax decrease violative of the provisions of
the Recovery Act that says that States should not be using those
funds to cut taxes.
Chairman Powell, we have talked a lot about wire fraud. Your
staff has told me they don’t plan to solve the problem. I hope you
get personally involved in making sure our new wire transfer sys-
tem does solve the problem. And, Chairman Powell, I want to com-
mend you for your statement yesterday that the Fed will not pro-
ceed with creating a new Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
without the support of Congress. And I don’t think you will have
that support, unless the Know Your Customer (KYC) provisions are
applicable to this new system and it doesn’t become useful to tax
evaders, terrorists, drug dealers, et cetera.
Madam Secretary, believe it or not, I do have a question. Chair-
man Powell, when he was before us last month, testified before this
committee that Federal legislation is necessary to fix the legacy
London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR) contracts so that they can
continue to function after the LIBOR Index is no longer published
by our friends in London. Secretary Yellen, would you agree with
Chairman Powell that Congress will need to act to provide for a
smooth transition for this $2 trillion in contracts?
Secretary YELLEN. Yes, I would agree. There are certain legacy
contracts where the transition could be difficult without legislation.
These are contracts that don’t provide for a workable fair back
rate, and so I think Congress does need to provide legislation for
the LIBOR transition.

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Mr. SHERMAN. Thank you, and in my remaining time, can you
address the issue of States that are conforming their income tax
laws to Federal income law? Is that going to be regarded as a viola-
tion of the Recovery Act?
Secretary YELLEN. We are working to provide guidelines on what
will and won’t count, and it is premature for me, until we have
completed that, to offer you an answer on the specifics.
Mr. SHERMAN. Please, it is critical for the people of California.
Secretary YELLEN. We will do it quickly.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. Mr.
Lucas, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. LUCAS. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for holding this
hearing, and thank you, Chairman Powell and Secretary Yellen, for
appearing before the committee. And, of course, Secretary Yellen,
congratulations. I join my colleagues in congratulating you on your
confirmation as the first woman to serve as Secretary of the Treas-
ury. I look forward to the day, hopefully not very far off, when all
positions of responsibility, all opportunities in society will have ad-
vanced to the point where we won’t have to use the phrase, ‘‘first
woman.’’ Again, that day will come, hopefully soon.
This past Friday, the Fed announced that the temporary exclu-
sion of Treasuries and reserves in the supplemental leverage ratio
will expire at the end of the month. The announcement also stated
that the Fed will seek public comment on potential SLR modifica-
tions.
Chairman Powell, could you comment on if the exclusion of
Treasuries and reserves over the past year helped improve U.S.
Treasury market conditions and banks’ ability to provide credit?
Mr. POWELL. As you know, the Treasury market was experi-
encing significant dysfunction during the height of the crisis, and
we did a number of things, and, particularly, we bought a lot of
U.S. Treasuries to restore function. We also did this exclusion and
so did many other large countries like us did something like that.
If you look back, we threw the kitchen sink at it, and it is hard
to say exactly what effect it had. We did the exclusion relatively
late, and by then, there had been quite a lot of market function re-
covered. So it is hard, it is difficult. I would love to give you a
straight answer, but it is difficult to say just how helpful it was.
In any case, that danger has long passed.
Mr. LUCAS. Secondly, could you elaborate on the timeline of po-
tential SLR modifications that may come in the near future, Mr.
Chairman?
Mr. POWELL. Yes. We expect to put something out for comment,
and I can’t tell you exactly when that will be, but relatively soon.
And we are going to run a very transparent public process, invite
comment, and consider it.
Really, the point is that because of the substantial increase in re-
serves and Treasuries, the leverage ratio is rapidly becoming the
binding constraint from a capital standpoint, and that wasn’t our
intention at the Fed from the beginning. We like risk-based capital
to be binding because it forces banks to manage their risks more
carefully.
Mr. LUCAS. As everyone on this hearing knows, I have always
made it a very strong point that the Third Congressional District

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of Oklahoma is a commodity-driven economy. It is agriculture, and
it is energy. There is concern in my district that financial regu-
lators may be moving towards regulation and supervision with en-
vironmental policy objectives, potentially discouraging banks from
doing business with entire sectors of the economy.
Chairman Powell, could you respond to that concern of my con-
stituents?
Mr. POWELL. Sure. It has been a long-held policy of the Fed that
we don’t tell banks what legal businesses they can lend to or order
them to lend to. That is not what we do.
With the climate change—you are getting at the climate change
work that we are doing. We are at a very early stage of under-
standing the risks to regulated financial institutions from climate
change. It is a risk that we think the public has every right to ex-
pect that we will ensure that the banks do manage over time.
And so, again, we’re in the early stages of that. I would be happy
to talk to you offline about that, too.
Mr. LUCAS. Absolutely. And Secretary Yellen, could you provide
your thoughts on that concern?
Secretary YELLLEN. You want me to weigh in on the issue of
lending and climate change?
Mr. LUCAS. Yes, that there will potentially be efforts by the fi-
nancial regulators to move towards regulation and supervision with
environmental policy objectives. My folks are concerned that will
lead to discouraging banks from doing business in certain areas
and certain sectors and consequently potentially have a dramatic
effect on their business model or their ability to function.
Secretary YELLEN. Climate change is a top priority for the Biden
Administration, but we agree that financial regulators should be
assessing the risks to financial institutions through stress testing
and other techniques. And investors need disclosure of risk, but we
have no plan to regulate what lending or investments can be done.
Mr. LUCAS. Thank you very much. And I can assure you that I
and my colleagues will watch all that very closely.
With that, I yield back, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes the
gentleman from New York, Mr. Meeks, who is also the Chair of the
House Foreign Affairs Committee, for 5 minutes. Mr. Meeks?
[no response]
Chairwoman WATERS. If Mr. Meeks is not available, we will
move on to Mr. Scott for 5 minutes.
Mr. SCOTT. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairman Powell, Secretary Yellen, welcome.
Chairman Powell, first to you, thanks to the Rescue Plan, we
now have an opportunity to expand the child tax credit. The IRS
has put forth a Get My Payment website, and I believe it could be
used in conjunction with the efforts through the FDIC and the pri-
vate sector to bring more Americans into our banking system using
what is known as Bank On certified safe accounts, but only if it
is able to be moved at the moment when we capture it.
Because currently, the IRS Get My Payment tool is only open for
the status checks. But consumers are unable to add or change de-
livery information as they were able to do so with the delivery of
the first stimulus checks.

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So, Chairman Powell, explain that. Don’t you agree that this is
an opportunity to increase financial inclusion through the use of
certified Bank On safe accounts, Get My Payment?
Mr. POWELL. I would agree with you that greater inclusiveness
in the financial system is a goal of the highest priority for us and
really for all financial regulators and for the country. I am not fa-
miliar with the particular practice you are referring to, but I will
be happy to look into that and get back to you.
Mr. SCOTT. Okay, please do. And then there is another one with
the Treasury Department called, Get My Payment. All of these
things are good, but I appreciate your looking into them as quickly
as you can so that if they are there, we need to use them now be-
cause so many of our people cannot get the money quickly because
they don’t have the kind of high standing within our financial sys-
tem. When you put these things in like Bank On and Get My Pay-
ment, we need to use them right now. So, I appreciate your looking
into that.
Secretary Yellen, let me move to you. The American Rescue Plan
also included $350 billion in assistance to State and local govern-
ments to make up for the lost revenue and to ease the economic
impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. Could you tell me when local
governments can expect Treasury to release guidance on the Amer-
ican Rescue Plan?
Secretary YELLEN. I think we have to issue guidance quite quick-
ly, I think within 60 days, and to distribute the funds. And we are
working very hard to sort through the issues that we need to in
order to provide clarity about the purpose of the funds and how
they can be used.
Mr. SCOTT. Okay. Madam Chairwoman, I am concerned. We have
the Treasury Secretary here, and we have the Chairman of the
Federal Reserve here. And we passed this bill, and we put certain
things in it to increase the delivery. And everybody cannot get this
payment through electronic accounts. Most of the people that you
and I have been very concerned about getting inclusion are not get-
ting these funds as quickly.
I just want to encourage—and I know you agree—but I want to
take a moment here. We passed it. It is there. Please, please,
Treasury Secretary, please Federal Reserve Chair, all of us need to
hurry up. We put these things in place so we could reach those who
have been excluded very quickly. They need the money as quickly
as everyone else.
Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Scott. I now
recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Posey, for 5 minutes.
Mr. POSEY. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters, for calling this
hearing today.
We continue to live in a period of uncertainty, but there is some
good news on the horizon for our economy as it appears poised to
recover rapidly as the vaccine is given to more and more people.
Chair Powell told us in his semi-annual appearance a few weeks
ago that the economy could grow by as much as 6 percent during
this year alone.
At the same time, other factors could cloud the horizon, such as
our unprecedented level of deficit spending, increases in nominal

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Treasury and corporate bond yields, the mysterious enthusiasm for
raising taxes, and the headlong pursuit of climate change mitiga-
tion measures that threaten affordable energy and our recently-ac-
quired energy independence.
Secretary Yellen, you recently said that the Treasury Depart-
ment could facilitate bank stress tests for climate change, but you
wouldn’t expect results would be used for capital requirements or
other regulation. If these climate stress tests have no regulatory
purpose, what would the purpose of such stress tests be?
Secretary YELLEN. The purpose of the, maybe we should call it
‘‘scenario analysis’’ rather than ‘‘stress test,’’ is for financial institu-
tions and for the regulators to better understand the risks that cli-
mate change poses to the health and resilience of core financial in-
stitutions, and it will help those institutions better manage and un-
derstand the risks.
Mr. POSEY. Are we doing any studies of the risk from solar inter-
action with our planet? A couple of years ago, we missed a solar
eruption that would have knocked out a lot of satellites and kind
of put us in the Dark Age. Are we checking on natural phenomena
like that as well?
Mr. POWELL. Let me say—
Secretary YELLEN. Go ahead.
Mr. POWELL. Yes, I can say, since we directly supervise financial
institutions, we do supervise for institutions that are in areas of
the country that are susceptible to significant weather problems,
such as hurricanes and things like that. So, we do that.
But just in response to your question, I would say that.
Mr. POSEY. How would this be used? Some people think it will
be a Federal informercial, like the old Al Gore movie or something
like that. How do you plan to utilize this information?
Mr. POWELL. Let me say that, first of all, many, many of the
large financial institutions are already doing this, and the reason
they are doing it is just what the Secretary said. It is to try to un-
derstand at an early stage of this science really, understand what
are the risks that are involved in climate change.
And that one way to do that is to run simulations and ask,
‘‘What would happen if? What would happen that?’’ There are no
regulatory consequences contemplated. It is an exploration in un-
derstanding better what the risks are to the core of our financial
system, and we feel like that is our obligation is to understand
that.
And again, the financial institutions are very much actively
doing this on their own. It is not something we are forcing them
to do at this point.
Mr. POSEY. Who is doing it? Give me some examples of who
might be doing that right now?
Mr. POWELL. I am not going to name individual financial institu-
tions. Many of the large banks are very active in trying to under-
stand how climate change would affect their business over the long
sweep of time. Many or even all financial—and by the way, that
is also true of large industrial companies in the United States.
Mr. POSEY. And are they sharing that information with you?
Mr. POWELL. They are sharing with the public.
Mr. POSEY. Does it seem consistent?

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Mr. POWELL. I think it is early days. Honestly, it is really very
early days in trying to understand what all of this means. It clearly
can have longer-term implications for our economy, for our finan-
cial system, and for the people that we all serve. And I think our
obligation is to try to understand that. And again, I would say it
is early days, but we feel like we have a responsibility to start the
process of understanding.
Mr. POSEY. Do you think you will discover revelations that they
have missed or—
Mr. POWELL. I think we have a job, which is to ensure that the
institutions we regulate are resilient to the risks that they are run-
ning. The public will expect that, and they have every right to ex-
pect that over time. So, we don’t have a new mandate. This is con-
sistent with our existing mandate of supervision of financial insti-
tutions. It is just the same mandate and a different risk.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. The
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. GREEN. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman.
Madam Chairwoman, I don’t want the historic aspect of this
hearing to escape us. I am a senior member of this committee. I
have witnessed many persons appearing before this committee,
many Secretaries of the Treasury and Chairs of the Fed, and I
must tell, you a paradigm shift is taking place, and I don’t want
it to be overlooked under your leadership.
I have here the statement of the Chairperson of the Fed, and in
his statement, he says—while addressing progress that is being
made, he states, ‘‘We welcome this progress, but we will not lose
sight of the millions of Americans who are still hurting, including
lower-wage workers in the service sector—African Americans, His-
panics, and other minority groups that have been especially hard
hit.’’
And then, the Secretary of the Treasury, in her statement, she
indicates that, ‘‘Since taking office 2 months ago, we have been ex-
pediting relief to areas of greatest need, for example, small busi-
nesses and especially the smallest small businesses, which are dis-
proportionately owned by women and people of color.’’
I understand that there is still great work to be done, but I just
don’t want to overlook the fact that people are talking more now
about the needs of minorities and women.
Secretary Yellen, you indicated in a message that you presented
not so very long ago, when comparing the 1.8 million fewer men
in the labor force to the 2.5 million fewer women, you called this,
‘‘extremely unfair.’’ This is the Secretary of the Treasury.
I am grateful to both of you for understanding that it is now time
for us to move forward on the issues associated with the wealth
gap as it relates to minorities in this country, and especially issues
related to women, who happen to be more than 50 percent of the
population of the country.
But it is historic to see this movement under your leadership,
Chairwoman Waters. I commend you, and I am honored to serve
under your leadership.
Now to Secretary Yellen, I have a concern, and I am concerned
about the $10 billion that will go to the State Small Business Cred-
it Initiative (SSBCI). I am concerned because when this program

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was instituted on a previous occasion—we have reauthorized it in
the Rescue Plan, but when it was authorized initially, it went to
the States through the Agriculture Department.
Then, the Agriculture Department had the duty and responsi-
bility and obligation of making sure that it moved down to other
units of the State. Well, in Texas, that probably is not the best way
to do business. I have this consternation about it, and my hope is
that we will be able to get this to the end users in a much more
expeditious way, such as what you have indicated you have been
trying to accomplish.
My question is this, Madam Secretary: Will you send us an out-
line of the timeline for implementation from money in the Treasury
to capital in the coffers of the end users in the $9 billion Emer-
gency Capital Investment Program that has come into being under
the Honorable Maxine Waters’ leadership—I had the privilege of
working on this program—and the $10 billion State Small Business
Credit Initiative similarly came into existence? And I would add
also this last one had the help of the chairwoman of our Diversity
and Inclusion Subcommittee, Mrs. Beatty, who helped us to hone
this and refine it to the extent that we are helping the smallest of
small businesses.
I am just hopeful that we can get such an outline because, I have
people who question me daily about, when will the money be avail-
able for us as end users to benefit from it? And I believe your heart
is in the right place. I believe you are working expeditiously. I just
want to be able to answer those questions when they are posed to
me.
So, again, I thank you. I am grateful for this historic moment.
And my hope is that this is only an indication of the better things
to come.
And Madam Chairwoman, I will yield back 12 seconds to you.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you. Thank you very much. I now
recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Luetkemeyer, for 5
minutes.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And congratulations to you, Secretary Yellen, on your new posi-
tion. It’s good to see you again.
Secretary YELLEN. It’s good to see you.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. My opening comment is just for you. I also
have another duty here in Congress, which is to be the ranking
member on the House Small Business Committee. And during your
opening statement, which I am sure was written by your staff, they
made or you made some comments with regards to this Adminis-
tration being responsible for all of the loans that are out there that
are being taken by those entities, those small businesses under 20
or 10 employees.
I can quote you from my own press release as the ranking mem-
ber of Small Business that the loans have been at roughly 75 to
80 percent, 10 employees or less already, and are generally about
a little over 90 percent of 20 employees or less. And for the Admin-
istration to actually pause that ability of small businesses with
over 20 employees to have access to the program is actually harm-
ful from the standpoint that, if we don’t pass the extension of the
PPP bill that we passed in the House, which the Senate now has—

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if we don’t pass that, those small businesses are actually at a dis-
advantage because the over-20 were delayed. And if they don’t get
their loan in the pipeline soon, the pipeline is not going to get proc-
essed, and they won’t even get their loan processed.
My comment would be, please tell your staff to quit politicizing
your statement, and please stop taking liberties with the facts.
Chairman Powell, we are halfway through the 2-year cycle now
on Current Expected Credit Losses (CECL) and a capital delay,
which will end in 2022, and begin the phase-in of deferred impacts
on the capital. We have now had nearly 4 quarters of CECL data
available and have banking agencies reviewing the data.
Can you tell us what the Fed’s review of that data is, and if you
would consider a more permanent calibration or revision to the cur-
rent approach?
Mr. POWELL. We are continuing to look at CECL, and I honestly
don’t have anything for you on that data. I will take a look at it
quickly, and get back to you.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay. That would be great, because I think
having deferred it is something that you agreed to up-front last
year in the process. It was something that I think you probably
agreed to again this time, and I think it is something we certainly
need to review, for sure, if not get rid of altogether, if a delay is
something that we all believe is in the best interest of everybody
affected by it.
Also, Chairman Powell, at this point, Fed data from third quar-
ter 2020 indicates that 51 percent of the commercial real estate
debt is now held by banks, and the FDIC data indicates that com-
munity banks have a higher concentration of these loans as the
lenders. At this point, again, Congress has provided relief from the
financial institutions with these assets through the suspension of
TDRs and the extension of the foreclosure moratorium.
I think it is important that we have discussions around this on
what will happen when this relief ends. Can you give us a little
heads-up as to what you think will happen, the impact on balance
sheets, the economic recovery, if we take that extension, we take
that foreclosure moratorium off?
Mr. POWELL. I will look into that for you.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. I apologize for my voice. I have really bad al-
lergies today.
Mr. POWELL. It is that time of year. No, you are right. We are
monitoring commercial real estate (CRE) very carefully, and you
are absolutely right that its concentrations arise principally in
smaller banks, and we will have to monitor it carefully as we allow
those moratoriums to elapse. And I don’t have anything for you on
that today, but we are well aware of the issue, and we will be sure
to move very, very carefully when we do address that.
Mr. LUETKEMEYER. As you know, I am very concerned about this
situation, because, as we saw in 2008 and 2009, when we went in
and very punitively shut down entire industries, especially in the
commercial real estate and real estate development areas, it had
a really, really devastating effect on not only local economies, but
the economy as a whole. So, I hope we are very, very cautious
about this.

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You and I have talked about this before with regards to forbear-
ance and being able to allow these businesses to get back on their
feet and see once what the real loss is before we go in and sort of,
‘‘scorched earth’’ get rid of all these folks.
But I appreciate your interest on that and your support on that.
I know that you all are doing a good job of working with the banks
at this point. I would ask that you continue to do that. I realize
some loans are bad. You have to write them off, that is fine.
But I think if time is given with the nature of the economy the
way it is, I believe we can get out of a lot of the mess that we are
in without having to go through the process of foreclosure. I thank
you for your thoughtfulness.
And I yield back, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much. The gentleman
from Missouri, Mr. Cleaver, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. CLEAVER. Madam Chairwoman, let me again, hopefully for
the last time, apologize to you and the members of the committee,
and certainly our witnesses, for not being properly attired due to
my current medical situation. But I thought it might be better for
me to do this than to miss the hearing.
If I can, Madam Secretary, I was here, and probably everybody
at least on the Democratic side who has spoken so far was here,
and many of the—and I think probably, yes, all of the Republicans
as well were on the committee when the tax cuts were approved.
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, I think it was called. And it tempo-
rarily authorized what was called the Opportunity Zones, and I be-
came somewhat excited about it. It didn’t matter whether it was
designed by Republicans, Democrats, or the Tampa Bay Buc-
caneers, I thought it was—well, maybe that is going too far.
But Opportunity Zones, the incentives were designed to encour-
age private investment in the economically-distressed areas around
the country. And I have become concerned, even though I had great
enthusiasm for the program, that the larger promise of this organi-
zation has not been realized. I thought, I believed, I hoped that we
would have affordable housing, community-oriented amenities like
grocery stores, drug stores like CVS, that would improve the qual-
ity of life in these low-income areas. But my dream remains unreal-
ized.
Now today, Chairman Green and I sent a letter. Let me say al-
though, parenthetically, that Opportunity Zones are under the ju-
risdiction of the House Ways and Means Committee, and I accept
that, there are some parts of this, especially as it relates to afford-
able housing, where Opportunity Zones could be extremely impor-
tant.
So, here we are. We have seen some things that happened, that
I think are extremely unfortunate, and they bode poorly for what
we could do in the future. And one of those things, Madam Sec-
retary, is that we have seen, for example, the Brookings Institution
talked about in one of their reports that some of the States had
picked the Opportunity Zones covering college campuses located in
Census tracts where over 90 percent of the residents are students.
And I am all for students, but I don’t believe the program was
designed, as I recall and read the initial proposal, for colleges. It
was designed for distressed communities. At any rate, I am talking

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too long, but I want to make sure that you understand the concerns
we have. And in the remaining time, could you talk about what ec-
onomics says about the benefits if we have this program maybe
tweaked or redesigned in some way so that the incentives actually
help people in what we thought were going to be zones?
Secretary YELLEN. I think it is critically important to increase
opportunities to provide affordable housing, especially for low-in-
come and historically-marginalized families, and Opportunity
Zones, appropriately structured, could contribute to that. There are
a number of other tools that we have that can contribute to afford-
able housing goals. The Low-Income Housing Tax Credit, I think
is important in serving that purpose. The Capital Magnet Fund can
also serve to facilitate investment in affordable housing construc-
tion.
This is a top priority for the Biden Administration. We are cer-
tainly open to exploring opportunities at Treasury and across the
government to address the affordable housing shortage. We are op-
erating at Treasury, the CDFI Fund and other programs that will
invest in CDFIs and Minority Depository Institutions (MDIs), and
I think they can make a contribution. But we have a variety of pro-
grams, and I would look forward to working with you to see how
we can use them to address this problem.
Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you. And thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. Thank
you. The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Huizenga, is recognized for
5 minutes.
Mr. HUIZENGA. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And I am going to be trying to move through a couple of quick
things. But Secretary Yellen, one, congratulations on your new po-
sition, and I look forward to continuing to work with you.
But I have to read you part of an email I received from a CPA,
a constituent of mine, and this echoes what Mr. Sherman had to
say. My constituent says, ‘‘Extending the filing date of the 2020 tax
returns was not an option. It was a necessity because of all of the
stuff being thrown at us this year. Making changes to the 2020 in-
come tax rules in March? Really?
‘‘It is going to take software developers 2 weeks at least to get
this into the software correctly. Can you even imagine the amount
of incorrect correspondence the IRS system is going to create as a
result of this, and how much we are going to have to deal with
straightening this out for them because they also can’t get their
systems changed correctly that quickly? It is going to be a mess
this summer for sure.
‘‘Extending the 2020 deadline by 30 days is minimal. It should
have been until June 15th, as the American Institute of Certified
Public Accountants (AICPA) and the Ways and Means Committee
recommended, but we can deal with that. Having the first quarter
2021 estimated payment due on April 15th, after extending the tax
filing date to May 15th, is the most ridiculous thing I have ever
heard. How do you think we determine what those estimates
should be? Through the completion of the prior year return.
‘‘To have the first-quarter estimate due on April 15th without
knowing where the prior return ended up is ridiculous. They
should have just kept the filing date at April 15th.’’

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So, one, I want to know if you are aware of this problem, and,
two, whether you are committed to actually trying to straighten
that out and move that date to make it workable?
Secretary YELLEN. I believe the logic of moving the one date, but
not the date for estimated taxes, is based on the idea that it is
mainly high-income taxpayers who file estimated taxes and that
they are able to file by April 15th when—
Mr. HUIZENGA. Let me just stop you right there. As a former RE-
ALTOR and independent contractor, coming out of college, I was
not a high-income earner, but I paid quarterly taxes. I paid quar-
terly estimates.
And there are all kinds of people like that who are small busi-
ness owners. They are in the middle of trying to keep their res-
taurant open, much, I might add, like Marlena, who is a restaurant
owner, an immigrant restaurant owner who is in jail right now be-
cause she violated the Michigan Health Department’s order to shut
her restaurant down because she was trying to save her business.
But we have a lot of those folks who need to understand what their
tax liability is before they are going out and sometimes having to
borrow cash to make that first estimated payment, especially those
who are in seasonal work such as construction, landscaping, those
kinds of things.
I don’t want to take any more time on that. I do want to have
that conversation with you and your staff offline.
Mr. Powell, materiality, I want to touch on that and the Fed’s
involvement in the Network for Greening the Financial System
(NGFS). You have a rather interesting quote saying, ‘‘Regardless of
the nature of any future engagement with them, we will continue
to set supervisory and regulatory expectations basically as normal.’’
So, one, that begs the question, why the involvement in that?
And two, materiality, doesn’t it need to be definable as well as
quantitative? Very quickly.
Mr. POWELL. What the NGFS really is, is regulators, supervisors
from countries around the world who are trying to understand to-
gether what are best practices—
Mr. HUIZENGA. I know what it is. What I need to know in this
short amount of time is about the materiality. When nobody can
define it or come to an agreement on it, how can it be measured
and be quantitative?
Mr. POWELL. We are not trying to measure or quantify something
right now. We are trying to understand at a high level what is the
nature of the risks that will affect banks over time from climate
change?
Mr. HUIZENGA. That might be your goal and objective. I know
that is not the goal and objective of a number of my colleagues who
have actually been talking about this needing to be into the review
currently. And what I am afraid is that we are going to get dragged
into that.
In my remaining last little bit, I do want to talk about, Secretary
Yellen, you are a professor, a lifelong educator. Do you agree that
we should safely send our kids back to school to ensure their edu-
cational development? I am very concerned about that impact on
the future of our economy.

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Secretary YELLEN. I have concerns about the impact of children
not being in school, and it is an important objective to reopen the
schools safely as soon as we can.
Mr. HUIZENGA. Okay. My time has expired. I appreciate the time,
and I look forward to that other conversation about the IRS.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you. The gentleman from Con-
necticut, Mr. Himes, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. HIMES. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you to
both of you for appearing.
A couple of quick things, then I do have one question for both
of you. Chairman Powell, I saw with great interest your comments
on cryptocurrency out of the Fed. You said we would not proceed
without support from Congress and urged great transparency.
I appreciate that. I think my subcommittee would probably have
jurisdiction over that in some combination with Mr. Sherman’s sub-
committee. I just wanted to tip my hat to that sentiment, and I
think we should work together. There is quite a bit of education,
I think, to be done with the United States Congress on that very
important topic.
Secretary Yellen, thank you for all of the work that you and your
people have done. I would be remiss if I didn’t urge you to be par-
ticularly quick on the rollout of the rules for the Restaurant Revi-
talization Fund. That obviously is a sector that has been brutally
hit in the last year or so. We are hoping that those funds become
available quickly.
In my remaining 4 minutes, I have one question for both of you
that I would like to offer. It is undeniable that everywhere we look
today, we see the effects of the very substantial liquidity in the sys-
tem. And by the way, it is gratifying to see monetary and fiscal pol-
icy working in tandem. This was not true when I was a freshman
in 2009, when the fiscal policy was working against the monetary
policy for recovery.
It is very gratifying to see that. But again, everywhere we look,
we see the effects of a flood of liquidity in the system. That, of
course, is in equity market prices, which have a remarkable run.
The high-yield market, which is now yielding something like 4 per-
cent. Everybody and their brother has a Special Purpose Acquisi-
tion Company (SPAC). Real estate prices are growing around the
country.
So, my question is for both of you. We learned in 2008 that trees
do not grow to the sky. I wonder if you each would just take 90
seconds to tell us what you see as the near- to medium-term risks
associated with the inevitable contraction, although we may not
know when it comes, of liquidity in the system?
Let me start with the Treasury Secretary for a response, and
then go to the Chairman.
Secretary YELLEN. I would say that while asset valuations are
elevated by historical metrics, there is also belief that with vaccina-
tions proceeding at a rapid pace, the economy will be able to get
back on track.
I think in an environment where asset prices are high, what is
important is for regulators to make sure that the financial sector
is resilient and to make sure that markets work well and that fi-
nancial institutions are appropriately managing their risks.

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Mr. HIMES. Chairman Powell, that is a pretty good segue over to
you.
Mr. POWELL. Monetary policy is highly accommodative right now.
That is appropriate, given how far we are from our employment
goal and our inflation goal, for that matter. And I think the first
thing I would point to is just our overall monitoring of financial
stability.
We have looked carefully at financial stability on an ongoing
basis. We have a framework with four pillars. If you look at those,
the evidence is kind of mixed. You can say that some asset prices
are a bit high, but the banking system is highly-capitalized, and
funding risk is relatively modest.
The remaining category is really leverage among households and
businesses, which is somewhat elevated, but nothing like it was be-
fore the financial crisis. So, it is a mixed picture on that. The main
thing is to have a resilient financial sector that can withstand the
sorts of disruptions that will come.
In terms of moving forward, we have said that we would start
to taper our asset purchases when we have seen substantial fur-
ther progress toward our goals. When that comes, we will commu-
nicate well in advance of the time of actually tapering.
That is what we do. We have learned over the course of some
years now that we need to communicate carefully and move slowly.
Well ahead of time, we will let people know what is coming, and
that is the best we can do to make sure that the transition away
from very highly accommodative monetary policy, as the economy
reaches full employment and price stability goals that will transi-
tion to a different policy.
Mr. HIMES. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. The
gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Barr, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. BARR. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Secretary Yellen, you have created a team within Treasury to
focus on climate change. You are also the Chair of the Financial
Stability Oversight Council (FSOC), which is charged with identi-
fying systemic risk to the financial system.
I certainly understand that changes to weather patterns could
pose risk to individual credits or insurance policy holders. But link-
ing hypothetical climate scenarios to risk to the entire financial
system seems to me highly speculative, and on the flip side, I
worry that injecting ill-defined climate scenarios into financial reg-
ulation and supervision creates the immediate and very real risk
of driving investment and credit allocation away from job-producing
industries like fossil energy, an industry that still provides 80 per-
cent of total energy consumed in the United States, and remains
the most affordable and reliable source of energy to the American
economy.
Are you incorporating this real risk into your assessments
around climate, and how do you plan to account for the disruptions
in the labor market, the very significant disruptions to the labor
market from lost energy jobs? And what about increasing energy
prices and decreasing reliability for consumers, is that something
FSOC will look at in addition to—in the context of your time as
czar?

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Secretary YELLEN. I believe that FSOC can play a role in arrang-
ing discussions among financial regulators, all of whom have re-
sponsibilities for assessing risks from climate change to the finan-
cial institutions that they supervise and regulate, to coordinate a
systemwide response using the best-available tools. I think FSOC
can facilitate identification of data and information, including high-
quality financial disclosures that are needed to understand climate
risks and make sure that climate risks are addressed fully in light
of these assessments.
I don’t see FSOC playing a role in telling financial institutions
what kind of lending they can do, but information is important.
Mr. BARR. Thank you. And reclaiming my time, I would just en-
courage Treasury to consider the role that shifting consumption
away from fossil energy toward renewables, despite the market’s
continued demand for fossil, the impact that could have on the
economy as well and systemic risk, as opposed to just looking at
hypothetical climate scenarios.
Broadband, Madam Secretary. The pandemic has been especially
hard for rural families who don’t have a broadband connection in
my home State of Kentucky. And I am glad that the American Res-
cue Plan allows for necessary investments in broadband, but one
of the ongoing problems we have had is that funding our
broadband infrastructure often goes to areas that already have
broadband, and the dollars never get into underserved areas like
in my district.
I was disappointed that this committee, in the markup of the
American Rescue Plan (ARP), rejected my amendment to dedicate
funds to rural areas for broadband. Will you commit Treasury to
using its authority to see that in the American Rescue Plan,
broadband funding is spent first and foremost in underserved rural
areas?
Secretary YELLEN. We need to distribute the funds to States, lo-
calities, Territories, and the like based on the requirements that
are in the ARP, and using the funds for broadband or water or
sewer for the State and local funding is certainly a permitted use.
But we are going to give flexibility to the recipients of these funds
as to precisely how they deploy them, consistent with the require-
ments of the Act—
Mr. BARR. Thank you, and I look forward to working with you
and Treasury on that. I appreciate that. I think we can work to-
gether on that.
Final question: With the multi-trillion dollar deficit spending bill
just passed, the promise of an additional $3 trillion in spending by
this Administration on top of the $4 trillion in borrowing because
of COVID last year, does the Treasury or the Fed or both of you
intend to lengthen the maturity of government debt before interest
rates rise?
Secretary YELLEN. Treasury has been looking at this question
and has no current plans to do that.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. The
gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Foster, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. FOSTER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Secretary Yellen, Chair Powell, I would like to probe a little bit
deeper on Central Bank Digital Currencies, and in particular the

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need for a secure digital ID for participants. I believe that both of
you are on the record as acknowledging that an anonymous,
untraceable digital dollar is not a viable option for our country or
the free world because of its ability to be abused for money laun-
dering, terrorism financing, ransomware, and so on. Is that prin-
cipally correct?
Mr. POWELL. I don’t think I am on the record for that, but I will
go on the record now for it.
Mr. FOSTER. Secretary Yellen?
Secretary YELLEN. Nor am I on the record, but I would agree
that we need to be very careful about the use of the digital cur-
rency for illicit finance, and anonymous currency makes that much
harder to control.
Mr. FOSTER. Yes. Well, I concur. I think it is sort of logically im-
possible.
On the other hand, I believe that the Chinese approach to digital
currencies that gives the government immediate and unconditional
access to all transaction information will be equally unacceptable
to Americans and to most citizens of the free world. Therefore, a
digital dollar will be crucially dependent on having an effective au-
thentication component. That is a secure and legally traceable and
maximally privacy-preserving way for participants to authenticate
themselves as a unique legally traceable individual, a secure digital
ID.
And it must be backed by a trusted court system and a clear
legal regime to determine the conditions under which the partici-
pants might be unmasked. And as a digital dollar, if it is to be used
internationally, we are then going to need a digital ID system that
operates internationally, at least among the free countries of the
world.
I would like to thank you both for beginning engagement with
authorities in other countries on Central Bank Digital Currencies,
and I was wondering where you see this discussion going as far as
a secure digital ID and a means of authentication across bound-
aries, across countries?
Secretary YELLEN. I will let Chair Powell start with this, because
he has been more involved than I have.
Mr. POWELL. Thank you. So, yes, where we are is we are engaged
in a process of looking at all of the technical issues and design
issues, which interact with each other. That is one of the most
basic ones.
Reflecting your earlier question, I don’t think a system that re-
lies entirely on, for example, completely private governance or com-
pletely secret information about who actually owns the digital dol-
lar would be viable. And the lack of privacy in the Chinese system
is just not something we could do here.
At the same time, I would say there has to be a balance, and it
does call for using a two-tiered system in some way so that there
is a wallet outside of the central bank, and transfers can take place
there and that there are appropriate protections. We are only be-
ginning to think carefully about these things, and it is going to be
a careful, detailed, and probably lengthy process of consideration,
one that we are investing quite a bit in now, and that I expect will
last some time.

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Mr. FOSTER. Secretary Yellen, did you have any thoughts on
this?
The issue of the secure digital ID is very much in your court,
having to do with—one of the things that the coronavirus laid bare
is the lack of simply a list of citizens in the U.S., and then our abil-
ity to rapidly distribute funds, particularly to the underbanked. A
high-quality and universal digital ID in the U.S. would have made
that immeasurably easier, as well as everything from vaccine cer-
tificates or you name it.
And so, it is an ongoing discussion on many fronts. And there are
also specific proposals. I believe you had letters urging both of you
to look into this in more detail. And I was just wondering, just sim-
ply as a means for citizens to receive payments, Fed accounts, each
one of us already has an account with the Federal Government, the
IRS at least, and I was wondering how you saw this part of the
conversation going?
Secretary YELLEN. I think it is something that is worth explor-
ing. I have not done so, but we would be glad to have further con-
versations with you about how something like this could work. It
is certainly a problem, as you have mentioned.
Mr. FOSTER. Thank you.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. The
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS OF TEXAS. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And thank you, Madam Secretary and Chairman Powell, for
being with us.
The Biden Administration’s tax plans are becoming clearer each
day, and from what we have learned so far, the President was not
really telling the truth when he told voters that anyone earning
less than $400,000 would not have a penny raised in taxes. Now,
this number has been reduced to anyone making $200,000 a year,
and a significantly greater number of families can expect the gov-
ernment to take more of their hard-earned paychecks so that
Democrats can fund their progressive priorities.
In addition to individual tax rates going up, the corporate tax
rates are also expected to be raised, and we will no longer have one
of the most competitive tax rates in the world. This will stifle busi-
ness investments, prevent employers from hiring more people, and
reduce capital-struggling businesses that will need to make the
necessary changes to accommodate the new normal after COVID-
19.
So, Chairman Powell, can you talk about the correlation between
business investment and productivity gains, and how increasing
productivity benefits workers and the overall economy?
Mr. POWELL. Sure. The way living standards rise over time is
through increasing productivity, more output per hour. Without
that, incomes can’t sustainably rise, and that is significantly con-
nected to investment, investment in human capital and also in ad-
vancing technology.
Mr. WILLIAMS OF TEXAS. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
At the beginning of 2020, Congress updated the Bank Secrecy
Act and made some of the largest changes to our anti-money laun-
dering laws in decades. When this legislation was signed into law,
there were some concerns coming from the business community

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about the impact this will have on small businesses in the form of
additional regulatory costs. As a small business person, I can tell
you that is a burden that we do not look forward to.
And as you start putting out guidance and implementing the law,
I hope you will be mindful of this and do all you can to ensure that
businesses will not be stuck with significant new expense.
So, Secretary Yellen, can you give us a status update on Treas-
ury and FinCEN’s work in implementing the Anti-Money Laun-
dering Act of 2020?
Secretary YELLEN. Yes. Timely and effective implementation of
the Anti-Money Laundering Act of 2020 is the top priority at
FinCEN. Our efforts are well underway, and several of the provi-
sions of the Act that involve FinCEN looking at innovation, regu-
latory reform, and the like, we are actively engaged in. This is
something that is a high priority, and we are making progress on
it.
Mr. WILLIAMS OF TEXAS. Okay, thank you.
Chairman Powell, in the past, we have talked about the work-
force participation rate and how we need to get people off the side-
lines and contributing to our economy. In other words, just put
them to work.
In your testimony, you note that this figure is still notably lower
than it was before the pandemic, and yet the COVID-19 bill re-
cently extended the enhanced unemployment benefits until Sep-
tember. Now, I have consistently expressed my concerns about how
this policy will be detrimental to our economic recovery and make
it more lucrative to, frankly, live off of these overly-generous gov-
ernment programs than to go out and find a job.
So, Chairman Powell, given the enhanced unemployment benefits
are now law, how should we be incentivizing people to get off the
sidelines and back in the workforce and make a good living for
their families?
Mr. POWELL. I think the most important thing is for people to get
vaccinated, so that we can get the economy fully reopened and
those jobs can come back, and people can feel safe doing them.
Mr. WILLIAMS OF TEXAS. Do you have an answer to that, Sec-
retary Yellen?
Secretary YELLEN. I agree with that. Many people who are not
working are not doing so because of safety considerations or be-
cause they have children out of school. And the studies that have
been done about whether or not the additional payments discour-
age work show pretty clearly that they don’t serve to do that. In
addition, they will be expiring in the fall.
Mr. WILLIAMS OF TEXAS. In my remaining time, I just want—we
talked about increasing taxes earlier. I would just say, as a small
business owner who employs hundreds of people in Texas, it is
pretty simple. If you cut taxes, you increase jobs. If you raise taxes,
you cost jobs any way you look at it. I hope that everybody will un-
derstand that raising taxes to any business is not good for our
economy.
With that, I will yield back my time, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much. I now call on Mr.
Vargas from California for 5 minutes.

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Mr. VARGAS. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. I ap-
preciate very much this hearing.
I also congratulate, in the strongest way, Secretary Yellen. It is
quite an honor to have a woman now running Treasury. That is
very, very exciting.
[Inaudible] about deficit spending when we Democrats are in
power. They don’t seem to remember that when they are, especially
their $1.9 trillion giveaway to the wealthiest Americans, tax give-
away. It is probably even more now because the wealthiest have
made so much money during this pandemic.
But one of the things that I have found so interesting about this
particular hearing is that we have two incredibly intelligent people
presenting today, and one is a Democrat and one is a Republican.
One was appointed by a Democrat, and one was appointed by a Re-
publican. And yet, they seem to be principled and scientific, speak-
ing about the facts and not crazy things. This is the way it used
to be.
And so, I appreciate it very, very much and, again, I can’t tell
you how much I have enjoyed listening to this intelligent conversa-
tion. I am sure that the Secretary and the Chairman have dif-
ferences of opinion, as they should. But it would be done on a fac-
tual basis, and it would be done, I think, intelligently and scientif-
ically.
In that spirit, I do want to ask about climate change. It seems
that both of you have the notion that climate change could be a big
deal and is in your study. So, what are the long-term investments
that we need to be looking at with respect to climate change in our
economy? And either one of you can go first.
Secretary YELLEN. I would start off by saying that climate
change poses very severe risks to the well-being of humanity, and
it is a global problem that demands a global solution. While we
need to address climate change at home, we also need to work glob-
ally to help other countries, particularly poorer countries, have the
resources to address it as well.
It is a top priority of the Biden Administration. President Biden
has released a detailed plan to combat climate change. We have re-
joined the Paris agreement. We intend to put forward a proposal
to invest in sustainable infrastructure and to create new green jobs
in the process.
We have talked earlier in this hearing about evaluating the risks
to businesses and to financial institutions from climate change,
which the financial regulators are doing, and I hope to facilitate
through FSOC the sharing of information on best practices. We
need to focus on information and disclosure of information about
the risks to companies that investors need to channel their capital
in the right directions.
Mr. VARGAS. Mr. Chairman, what about the risks to businesses
and financial institutions?
Mr. POWELL. We see this through a different lens, appropriately,
from the Treasury Department, and that really is the lens of our
existing mandate. We supervise banks and some other institutions
to ensure that they understand and are managing the risks that
they are running in their business. And we don’t have a new man-
date. That is what we do.

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And climate change is an emerging risk. We are looking at it
carefully. We actually are just in the very early stages of consid-
ering stress scenarios, and that is what others are doing, too. It is
an emerging idea. It is not actually something that people are con-
ducting now, but we are doing that and many other things to—
again, to get a basic understanding of how the financial system can
be resilient against what may be very significant emerging risks
over time.
Mr. VARGAS. Thank you. Yesterday, in the Foreign Affairs Com-
mittee, we talked to David Beasley, from the World Food Program.
Climate change was such a big deal there to famine and to other
problems internationally. So, again, I am very thankful that you
are working together and that you are scientific.
Thank you.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much. Mr. Hill, the gen-
tleman from Arkansas, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. HILL. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And let me welcome my good friend, Jay Powell, back to the com-
mittee for this oversight hearing.
And what a pleasure it is to say, ‘‘Madam Secretary,’’ and to wel-
come Janet Yellen back to the committee in your new role as our
Treasury Secretary. It is a pleasure to have you both here.
Secretary YELLEN. Thank you.
Mr. HILL. Secretary Yellen, China, Russia, Iran, Syria, Ven-
ezuela, and Myanmar are all subject to Treasury’s Office of Foreign
Assets Control (OFAC) sanctions program. Secretary of State
Blinken said last week that China is committing genocide, and
President Biden recently called Vladimir Putin a killer. And with
Chairwoman Waters’ strong support, Treasury is considering send-
ing billions of dollars to these dictatorships through the Inter-
national Monetary Fund’s (IMF’s) special drawing rights allocation.
Wouldn’t you agree that no-strings-attached liquidity for a geno-
cidal regime like China runs counter to our national interests?
Secretary YELLEN. I believe our national interest involves aug-
menting the reserves of countries that need it, so that at this very
difficult time, we don’t pressure countries to take contractionary,
deflationary actions that would make recovery more difficult. And
it is especially important to channel resources to the world’s poor-
est countries that are having a great deal of—
Mr. HILL. Madam Secretary, I agree completely. And of course,
David Malpass has made available $160 billion of concessional
loans through the World Bank, and the IMF, billions of dollars to
those neediest countries through its facilities for some 80 countries.
So, I think we share that goal.
But could you at least certify for us today that China won’t re-
ceive billions of dollars in this no-strings-attached liquidity through
the SDR allocation?
Secretary YELLEN. The funds are allocated in accordance with
the quotas that each country has at the IMF in an unconditional
way. So, China, if this allocation goes through, will receive re-
sources.
China is expected to use some of these resources, I believe, to,
along with other countries, recycle their Special Drawing Rights
(SDRs) to some of the poorest countries through the Poverty Reduc-

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tion and Growth Trust and to provide relief to countries that have
outstanding borrowing from China. I think that China is likely to
use SDR resources in ways that will be beneficial to countries
around the world.
Mr. HILL. Madam Secretary, thank you for that. I hope that is
the case. I will believe it perhaps when I see it. I hope that is an
important part of this discussion of limiting their access.
Would you, in turn, also ensure that Third World countries that
have been penalized by nontransparent predatory lending from the
Belt and Road Initiative from China’s largest creditor will not be
paid with SDR allocations from those poor countries? Can you cer-
tify that for us today?
Secretary YELLEN. We do want to make sure that SDR alloca-
tions are used to relieve poverty and address real needs, and we
will work with them and with China to ensure that they don’t go
to repaying loans from the Belt and Road Initiative.
Mr. HILL. And turning to Russia, of course, as I noted, President
Biden acknowledged last week that Vladimir Putin is a killer. Kill-
ers don’t deserve a blank check from the IMF, do they?
Secretary YELLEN. As I said, an SDR allocation goes to members
in accordance with their quotas in the IMF.
Mr. HILL. Well, I have argued, and I hope you will work with
us—you are skirting Congress by limiting the SDR allocation to
$650 billion that you discussed with your G-7 colleagues. But you
are not making the efforts I think are important for America’s na-
tional security to limit this hard currency access going to some of
the worst regimes in the world.
Will you commit to work with Congress to limit this SDR alloca-
tion access to Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Russia, and China?
Secretary YELLEN. We are working with the IMF to craft rules
that will promote transparency and make it difficult for countries.
They need to find willing partners to exchange SDRs, and that re-
quirement will limit uses for some of the countries that you men-
tioned.
Mr. HILL. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I yield back.
Chairwoman WATERS. The gentleman’s time has expired. Mr.
Gottheimer, the gentleman from New Jersey, is recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And thank you, Chairman Powell and Secretary Yellen, for being
here today.
Secretary Yellen, if I can start with you, the State and Local Tax
(SALT) deduction cap jammed through Congress in the 2017 tax
hike bill raised taxes for a majority of the families in my district.
For all four counties and the scores of middle-class families I rep-
resent, on average, SALT puts them above the $10,000 cap.
For example, in Bergen County, the average taxpayer claimed
$24,783 before the cap went into place, and the average property
tax alone was $12,398 last year. These are my communities’ teach-
ers and first responders and small business owners, young people
trying to start a family, all groups who were struggling, obviously,
during the pandemic.
It is high time we fought back against these moocher States that
put this into place. My district has been taken advantage of by

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these folks enough. Our taxes need to be cut, not raised, as we re-
cover from COVID-19, and removing the SALT cap has broad bi-
partisan support.
Will the Administration support eliminating the SALT cap and
fully reinstating the deduction, ending this misguided policy of dou-
ble taxation on my constituents?
Secretary YELLEN. I do think that the SALT cap is a feature of
the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) that resulted in very disparate
treatment. There are a lot of options that have been presented, and
I would work with you to try to ensure that the inequities that this
caused are remedied in a fair and responsible way. As you men-
tioned, there is a bipartisan proposal to repeal the cap.
President Biden discussed a proposal that would cap itemized de-
ductions at 28 percent. The caps could be increased. I think we
need to study just what impact it has had, and I look forward to
working with you to find a fair way to address it.
Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Thank you, Madam Secretary, and I really look
forward to working with you, too, on that.
Just one other item. Given the number of rural locations
throughout the country, including in my district, that still don’t
have true broadband connectivity, I believe that Treasury should
make sure any American Rescue Plan (ARP) Act broadband infra-
structure dollars are targeted to truly underserved areas, to avoid
overbuilding.
For example, according to a recent survey by the Census, only 69
percent of residents in White Township, in my district, have
broadband connectivity. Even in northern New Jersey, there are
lots of places that don’t have connectivity or have very limited
connectivity. I was wondering, based on the legislation that was
just signed into law, will you commit Treasury to using the author-
ity Congress gave it to see that broadband funding is spent first
and foremost on underserved areas and to avoid overbuilding?
Secretary YELLEN. I am not sure that we have the ability under
the law to impose those kinds of restrictions, but I will look at it.
And I would also mention that the ARP contains a Coronavirus
Capital Projects Fund. It is $10 billion that can also be used to
fund broadband and infrastructure. So, there is quite a bit of
money in the ARP for infrastructure, and I will look at what can
be done.
Mr. GOTTHEIMER. I was thrilled about that, obviously. It was
something I fought hard for, the $10 billion fund for broadband.
And I think the way it is written, the Treasury has latitude here,
and I would love to talk to you about that further to make sure
that it goes to places that don’t have broadband connectivity now
so we don’t overbuild, which has been a mistake in the past, as you
know, and try to avoid that.
Madam Secretary, The New York Times this week published an
article stating that more than $600 billion of income goes unre-
ported yearly to the IRS. This gap in reporting will reduce Federal
revenue by $1.4 trillion over the next decade. It is a great oppor-
tunity to make sure we go after tax cheats or people who don’t pay
what they should, to avoid raising taxes otherwise.

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Are you prioritizing that? Are you looking into the revenue rais-
ers that don’t require tax rates to increase, such as increasing the
audit capabilities of the IRS, to help close the tax gap?
Secretary YELLEN. Absolutely. I think this is something that
would be both fair and not involve any increase in tax rates or bur-
dens. It would make sure that those who are supposed to pay, do.
It does require more resources for the IRS. I would like to work
with Congress to see if we can provide that funding because I think
this would be a very important initiative. I am fully supportive of
it.
Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Excellent, and I think we get a 5- or 6-to-1 re-
turn on that.
Secretary YELLEN. Absolutely.
Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Thank you so much for your time.
And I yield back. Thank you.
Secretary YELLEN. Thanks.
Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much. The gentleman
from Georgia, Mr. Loudermilk, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. LOUDERMILK. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I appre-
ciate the panelists being with us today.
The Majority and the Administration recently enacted a massive
$2 trillion stimulus bill, which they said was necessary because we
are in an economic crisis. But now, all of a sudden, the Administra-
tion thinks the economy is strong enough to withstand a major tax
increase, the first in 30 years, in the middle of a pandemic.
The notion that the economy is in crisis, and the notion that the
economy is strong, cannot both be true at the same time. So, Sec-
retary Yellen, could you tell us, which is it? Is it strong, or is it
in crisis?
Secretary YELLEN. Right now, it is in crisis due to the pandemic,
and the Rescue Package should provide the funding that is needed
to address the pandemic and to relieve the suffering that it has
caused, getting people to the other side of it. It has been deficit
funded. There haven’t been tax increases to finance it.
But once the economy is strong again, and we are beyond the
pandemic, President Biden is likely to propose that we engage in
long-term plans to address longstanding investment shortfalls in
our economy, in infrastructure and investments to address climate
risk, investments in people, investments in R&D, in manufac-
turing, and these will make our economy more productive, raise
wages, and create good jobs.
It is necessary to pay for them. This would be spending over a
10-year horizon and would require some additional funding. He has
been clear about the tax proposals that he would consider. One of
those would be an increase in the corporate income tax rate back
to 28 percent, coupled with reform of the Global Intangible Low-
Tax Income (GILTI) to reduce the incentives of American compa-
nies to move their activities abroad to offshore activities. And we
are actively engaged in Organisation for Economic Co-operation
and Development (OECD) negotiations that would make it possible
to do that without negatively impacting the competitive positions
of American businesses.
We have had a global race to the bottom in corporate taxation,
and we hope to put an end to that and, in that context, to collect

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more than the 1 percent of GDP corporate tax revenue that we now
collect, which is very low, and among the lowest of developed coun-
tries.
Mr. LOUDERMILK. Madam Secretary, a lot of explanation there,
but it sounds like all of that is premised on the idea that the econ-
omy has been in crisis. And I and several others beg to differ on
that, even during the pandemic. But economists and even Chair-
man Powell were projecting up to 6 percent growth in 2021 before
the bill was even signed into law.
The economists also believe the package is 6.5 times larger than
it needs to be. And I agree with the former Democratic Treasury
Secretary Larry Summers, who said the reconciliation package is
the most irresponsible economic policy in 40 years. So, I don’t think
you can say it is in crisis, and that our economy is strong. It is kind
of speaking out of both sides of our mouths here.
Secretary Yellen?
Secretary YELLEN. We have lost 9.5 million jobs. We have an un-
employment rate that, if you add in people who have dropped out
of the labor force because of the pandemic, is running at probably
over 9 percent. So, we have a huge problem of joblessness in our
economy.
Mr. LOUDERMILK. Well, I understand that, but reclaiming my
time here, there are many States that are actually seeing more rev-
enue, tax revenue this year than they did—
Chairwoman WATERS. Hello, Mr. Loudermilk, are you still on?
[no response]
Chairwoman WATERS. I don’t know if there is a technical glitch,
or if he is muted.
[pause]
Chairwoman WATERS. Mr. Loudermilk, can you hear me? I sup-
pose not.
To our technician, can you get Mr. Loudermilk back on?
[pause]
Chairwoman WATERS. I see that his mouth is moving, but we
can’t hear him. Is he unmuted?
[pause]
Chairwoman WATERS. Unfortunately, there appears to be a prob-
lem with the Internet, and we have an agreement for a hard stop
at this time. And so, Mr. Loudermilk will probably be one of our
first Members recognized at the next meeting of our distinguished
guests, when they come.
With that, I would like to thank our distinguished witnesses for
their testimony today.
The Chair notes that some Members may have additional ques-
tions for these witnesses, which they may wish to submit in writ-
ing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 5
legislative days for Members to submit written questions to these
witnesses and to place their responses in the record. Also, without
objection, Members will have 5 legislative days to submit extra-
neous materials to the Chair for inclusion in the record.
And with that, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 2:16 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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APPENDIX

March 23, 2021

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