Nomination of Isabella Casillas Guzman to Be Administrator of the U.S. Small Business Administration
Summary
Hearing record S. Hrg. 117–153, Nomination of Isabella Casillas Guzman to be Administrator of the U.S. Small Business Administration, before the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship of the United States Senate on February 3, 2021. Opening statements are listed for Chairman Benjamin L. Cardin, Ranking Member Rand Paul and Senator Padilla. The record contains Ms. Guzman's testimony, prepared statement and responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Paul and Senators Cantwell, Hirono, Duckworth, Rosen, Rubio, Ernst, Inhofe, Young, and Kennedy. Appendix material includes letters from America’s Small Business Development Centers, the Independent Community Bankers of America and the National Small Business Association.
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“Nomination of Isabella Casillas Guzman to Be Administrator of the U.S. Small Business Administration.”
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S. HRG. 117–153
NOMINATION OF ISABELLA CASILLAS GUZMAN
TO BE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE
U.S. SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
FEBRUARY 3, 2021
Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
46–625 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland, Chairman
RAND PAUL, Kentucky, Ranking Member
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey JONI ERNST, Iowa
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii TODD YOUNG, Indiana
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director
WILLIAM HENDERSON, Republican Staff Director
(II)
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C O N T E N T S
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., Chairman, a U.S. Senator from Maryland .............. 1
Padilla, Hon. Alex, a U.S. Senator from California .............................................. 1
Paul, Hon. Rand, Ranking Member, a U.S. Senator from Kentucky .................. 5
WITNESS
Guzman, Ms. Isabella Casillas, of California, to be Administrator, U.S. Small
Business Administration ..................................................................................... 8
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
America’s Small Business Development Centers
Letter dated January 20, 2021 ........................................................................ 96
Associated General Contractors of America
Letter dated January 19, 2021 ........................................................................ 97
Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L.
Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1
Coalition of Small Business Organizations
Letter dated January 15, 2021 ........................................................................ 98
Feinstein, Hon. Dianne
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 101
Guzman, Ms. Isabella Casillas
Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8
Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 10
Responses to questions submitted by Ranking Member Paul and Senators
Cantwell, Hirono, Duckworth, Rosen, Rubio, Ernst, Inhofe, Young, and
Kennedy ......................................................................................................... 42
Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities
Letter dated February 1, 2021 ........................................................................ 103
Independent Community Bankers of America
Letter dated February 3, 2021 ........................................................................ 104
National Association of Development Companies
Letter dated February 1, 2021 ........................................................................ 106
National Small Business Association
Letter dated February 2, 2021 ........................................................................ 107
Padilla, Hon. Alex
Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1
Paul, Hon. Rand
Opening statement ........................................................................................... 5
Small Business Majority
Letter dated January 21, 2021 ........................................................................ 108
U.S. Chamber of Commerce
Letter dated February 3, 2021 ........................................................................ 36
U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
Letter dated February 1, 2021 ........................................................................ 109
(III)
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NOMINATION OF
ISABELLA CASILLAS GUZMAN
TO BE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE
U.S. SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2021
UNITED STATES SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. in Room
301, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Ben Cardin, Acting
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Cardin, Cantwell, Shaheen, Markey, Booker,
Coons, Hirono, Duckworth, Rosen, Paul, Rubio, Scott, Ernst,
Inhofe, Young, Kennedy, and Hawley.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, ACTING
CHAIRMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND
Chairman CARDIN. The Small Business Entrepreneurship Com-
mittee will come to order. The purpose for today’s hearing is to
hear from our nominee for the Administrator of the Small Business
Administration, Isabella Guzman, and I would like to welcome her
here this morning. I know she came in from California and we ap-
preciate very much her being here today.
I want to start by thanking Chairman Rubio for his generosity
in scheduling this hearing and allowing me to chair the hearing.
I also want to thank Senator Paul for his cooperation in allowing
this hearing to take place and for me to have the opportunity to
chair this hearing.
Ms. Guzman, it is good to see you again. Welcome to the Com-
mittee, and I thank you for your willingness to serve.
I am going to first recognize our newest Senator from California,
Senator Padilla, who is here today to introduce our nominee. Sen-
ator Padilla.
STATEMENT OF HON. ALEX PADILLA, A U.S. SENATOR
FROM CALIFORNIA
Senator PADILLA. Thank you, Senator Cardin, Senator Paul,
other members of the Committee, for the opportunity to introduce
Isabel Guzman.
At a time when small businesses across the country are facing
unprecedented challenges and economic hardship, we need a strong
leader who will bring experience and deep understanding of the
(1)
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issues to the Small Business Administration, and I am confident
that Isabel Guzman is that leader. As the daughter of a small busi-
ness owner, Isabel grew up experiencing first-hand the entrepre-
neurial spirit and resilience of America’s small businesses. She
knows the dreams that small businesses represent and the oppor-
tunities they create for families and communities.
After earning her undergraduate degree from the University of
Pennsylvania’s Wharton School of Business, Isabel has dedicated
her career to helping small businesses grow and succeed. Isabel,
herself, was a small business entrepreneur. Isabel already has a
deep understanding of the Small Business Administration, having
served both as a senior advisor and as Deputy Chief of Staff during
the Obama administration. She oversaw the agency’s adoption of
new technologies and programs that made the SBA more accessible
to entrepreneurs of all backgrounds.
She currently serves as the Director of the Office of the Small
Business Advocate for the State of California, the most populous
state in the Nation, which makes up the largest economy of any
state in the Nation, and home to more than 4 million small busi-
nesses.
Among the many uncertainties of the COVID–19 pandemic, Isa-
bel has worked with small businesses to weather the pandemic and
has helped implement the largest relief effort of any state in the
Nation. In addition to overseeing a network of small business cen-
ters, Isabel’s office has launched a Shop Safe, Shop Local initiative
aimed at helping small businesses reopen safely, as well as the Get
Digital California initiative, to help small businesses adopt new
technologies to safely and successfully operate during the pan-
demic.
Having successfully navigated the high volume and sophisticated
business environment in California, I am confident that Isabel un-
derstands the urgent and complex needs of this moment. Her ex-
pertise is critical to our Nation’s economic recovery. She is ready
to hit the ground running and will assure the SBA helps small
businesses across America not only survive the pandemic but build
back better than before.
Respectfully, I urge the Committee to support her nomination.
Thank you, Senator Cardin.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Padilla, thank you very much for
your introduction and we very much appreciate that and we cer-
tainly welcome you to the United States Senate. It is nice to be
your colleague. You are free to go. We are going to continue the
hearing. I know you have a busy schedule, so if you need to leave
please feel free to excuse yourself.
Senator PADILLA. Thank you.
Chairman CARDIN. Before I get started I do want to welcome
Senator John Hickenlooper to our Committee. He is virtually with
us today and he will be our newest member of the Committee, and
we just welcome him to the Small Business Committee.
Our Committee has a great tradition of bipartisan cooperation,
which we are continuing today in the manner in which this hearing
is taking place, so we very much welcome the participation of all
members.
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I want to start again by thanking Ms. Guzman for your willing-
ness to serve our Nation during this extremely challenging time.
Serving in public life is not easy, and certainly is not easy particu-
larly in this environment. So we thank you and your family for
your willingness to serve our Nation as the Administrator of the
Small Business Administration.
The SBA has played an oversized role in COVID–19. It was
tasked with important aspects of the COVID relief package. SBA
was called upon to provide an enormous amount of help in setting
up new programs. The staff worked extraordinarily hard, nights
and weekends, in order to get these programs up and running.
Eight hundred twenty billion dollars was run through the SBA in
COVID relief, establishing a new program, the Paycheck Protection
Program, and an EIDL advance program, both new, and, of course,
the eligibility of COVID pandemic for the EIDL loan program.
There was a close working relationship between the SBA and
this Committee. I particularly want to thank Senator Rubio, Sen-
ator Shaheen, and other members of this Committee as we worked
very closely with the SBA in not only setting up this program but
how it was initially administered. And we hope that that close co-
operation will continue under the Biden administration.
There were certainly many challenges as a result of COVID–19.
We all recognize, on this Committee, that small businesses are the
growth engine of America as far as job creation and innovation, but
the resiliency for small businesses is not as strong as larger compa-
nies. So when there is a recession or there is a challenge in our
economy, we need to pay particular attention to small businesses,
and that is exactly what we did in establishing these new pro-
grams. The first effort was to get money out quickly to protect pay-
roll, and we were successful in getting that done. We now need to
target the relief to those small businesses that have the greatest
need.
We learned, during the initial rollout of the program, that we
have a challenge in reaching the underserved communities, the
underbanked communities, minority small businesses, and we wel-
come your thoughts as to how you, if confirmed, would deal with
making sure we get the relief to the small businesses that need it
the most. It is critically important in the SBA Administration to
have a confirmed Administrator as quickly as possible to provide
steady leadership and permanent leadership during these very
challenging times.
Let me, if I might, I want to talk a little bit about your back-
ground and get your commitments as to how you will proceed if
confirmed as our Administrator. I am looking forward to hearing
from you about how your background and record of working with
and supporting small businesses has prepared you to lead the SBA.
I am especially looking forward to hearing about your most re-
cent position as California’s Director of the Office of Small Business
Advocate, as well as your prior service helping to lead SBA as a
deputy chief of staff and senior advisor during the Obama adminis-
tration. I also want to hear more about how working for your fam-
ily business shaped the way you go about supporting small busi-
nesses, because that is an experience that I and countless Ameri-
cans have shared.
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My grandfather emigrated to America and started a small store.
He was able to find a better way to do business, and over the years
that small store grew to become a very large company. In the proc-
ess, he was able to contribute to his community and the economy
by creating good-paying jobs. That is the American story, and for
far too many families right now the pandemic is threatening that
American dream.
When I was negotiating the small business provisions of the
CARES Act and subsequent relief bills family businesses as well as
the millions of families that rely on small businesses for their pay-
check were front of mind. I am proud of what we have been able
to do so far, but clearly more needs to be done.
In my home State of Maryland, which boasts the highest con-
centration of minority-owned, primarily Black-owned and women-
owned businesses in the country, the programs created and funded
by the CARES Act have provided billions of dollars of aid to hun-
dreds of thousands of small businesses. To date, nearly 100,000
Maryland businesses have received approximately $328 million in
EIDL advance grants, and the most recent data from the SBA
shows that approximately 65,000 Maryland small businesses have
received $3.4 billion in EIDL loans. And my colleagues here, from
the states they represent, we would see similarly large numbers of
the small businesses that have benefited from the tools we have
available.
I have had conversations with many of those small business own-
ers and they have told me that the small business aid that they
received empowered them not only to weather the storm of the
pandemic but also to retool their businesses for the new normal
that will follow. Just two months ago, the members of this Com-
mittee heard testimony from one of my constituents, Mrs. Iman
McFarland, who said, ‘‘PPP and EIDL did more than just keep our
businesses afloat. It created a rising tide to support lifting up five
employees I was able to bring back, as well as the broader commu-
nity we have been able to serve.’’
While PPP and EIDL worked for Mrs. McFarland and many
other small business owners, we also know prior to the passage of
the CARES Act that small businesses in underserved and under-
banked communities struggled to access PPP due to their minimal
to non-existent relationship with traditional financial institutions.
It was with this inequality in mind that Senator Shaheen and I
drafted the language in the CARES Act instructing the SBA and
the Treasury Department to issue guidance to financial institutions
participating in the Paycheck Protection Program to prioritize
loans for underserved small businesses.
This issue struck such a chord that a group of advocates from the
U.S. Black Chambers to the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and
Native Women-Led formed the Page 30 Coalition to try and get the
guidance implemented. Unfortunately, the Trump administration
did not issue that guidance, which led to the SBA IG’s finding that
the implementation of the PPP did not fully align with the congres-
sional intent of the CARES Act.
So as we negotiate a COVID relief package that passed in De-
cember, my colleagues and I once again pushed for provisions to
ensure that small businesses in underserved communities were not
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left behind. I am proud that the initial data that we have looked
at, in regards to the PPP loans being issued in January, we see
that they are going to smaller small businesses, and the size of the
loans are smaller. That is a good indication that we are getting a
better targeting. But we want to know how you will use the posi-
tion, if confirmed, to reach this target group that has traditionally
been left out of SBA priority programs because of their lack of con-
nection to the banking community.
No one knows exactly when the pandemic will end so I am grate-
ful that the Biden-Harris administration has laid out an aggressive
plan, the American Rescue Plan, to defeat COVID–19 by funding
vaccination and containing the virus while delivering aid to the
hardest hit communities and small businesses. Because to truly
help small businesses recover we must defeat this virus. If Amer-
ican consumers do not want to go out of their homes, we are not
going to help small businesses. If schools do not reopen, parents
are not going to be able to fully participate in our economy and
help small businesses.
Ms. Guzman, as we in Congress enact an American Rescue Plan
we will be relying on data and insight from the SBA. Here we have
had bipartisan concern by the way the SBA has made that infor-
mation available to Congress. And, by the way, also the General
Accounting Office has been unable to get that information. We need
that demographic information on how the program is working so
we can adjust it to reach the targeted communities that have been
traditionally underserved. So we are going to be looking for your
commitment to make sure that you get that information and share
that information with those of us in Congress.
Thank you once again for your commitment to serving the Nation
during this difficult moment in our history, and I look forward to
hearing your testimony this morning.
At this time I would yield—I am the Acting Chairman today but
the Acting Ranking Member, Senator Paul.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RAND PAUL, A U.S. SENATOR
FROM KENTUCKY
Senator PAUL. Thank you, Mr. Acting Chairman. Welcome, Ms.
Guzman. I enjoyed our conversation yesterday, and I do wish you
the best of luck. I think the job will be bigger than the job has ever
been in the past.
Philosophically, I have been opposed to borrowing such extraor-
dinary amounts of money, and I think it has been a false choice
in the sense that we say either the economy collapses in ruin or
we bail it out with money that we do not have. There has always
been another choice, and that is examining whether or not the eco-
nomic lockdowns have been beneficial.
There is no evidence, really, that any of the COVID lockdowns
have affected the trajectory of the virus. Even President Biden, in
the last week, has admitted as much. The virus is doing what it
wants to do, regardless of any of our interventions. In fact, there
was a Stanford study that looked at ten different countries and
with a variety of economic mandates, from very severe to vol-
untary. I really found no difference in the trajectory of the virus.
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In fact, if you look at the trajectory of the daily incidence of
COVID-positive patients it is growing exponentially, despite any of
the mandates that we have put in place. If you look at state-to-
state, between the states that have lax parameters to the states
that won’t let you go anywhere, you have to wear a mask outside,
or you cannot dine inside or outside, there is really not much dif-
ference. In fact, the states with the severest mandates really often
have some of the highest incidence. So Florida versus California,
the incidence in California, on a per-person or a pro rata ratio, is
actually much higher in California than Florida, despite California
having the harshest lockdown.
The reason I bring this up is that there has been a choice, and
still is a choice, on how we help business in our country and small
businesses. The small businesses have been devastated by govern-
ment policy, primarily Governors’ policy, but they have been dev-
astated by these rules. So the choice is not just shake the free
money tree, print up money, and give everybody money, or nothing.
The other choice would have been, could have been, and still is let’s
free these businesses up. Let’s get rid of the mandates that are
crippling our business.
Even with the mandates causing such harm to restaurants and
hotel industry and travel industry, overall unemployment, actually,
in Kentucky, is actually lower than it was in seven of the eight
years of President Obama’s two administrations. So I think we do
need to put things in perspective, and those who say this is an ex-
istential thing and we have just got to borrow whatever, and the
debt be damned, and we just have to do whatever and not worry
about the consequences of the future, I think we do.
Lord Maynard Keynes was sort of one of the early promoters,
and most prominent promoters, of the free money stimulus, govern-
ment stimulus, where we borrow money and pass it out. He was
asked, ‘‘Well, it, you know, it seems to work in the short run but
what about the long term?’’ And his response was, ‘‘Well, in the
long term we will all be dead anyway.’’ And I think that is sort of
a callous way to look at the future of our country and not worry
about what we are doing to the currency and what we are doing
to the underpinnings of our economy by borrowing so much money.
So I think we should keep that in perspective in the debate that
we continue to have in Washington over what is best to be done.
The programs that have been put out before us, PPP and the oth-
ers that are, many of them gradually being shifted from being
loans to grants, I think actually gives more incentive for more cor-
ruption. And we are already finding people who have bought expen-
sive luxury cars, Lamborghinis, things like that, with their PPP
money. Some of them are being caught. The more of these loans
that are turned into grants and have less oversight and the people
have less verification of what they have done with the money, the
more corruption we will get.
So I would argue that within the parameters of the law that you
will have to obey the law, but let’s try not to expand and use any
authority as the Administrator to try to convert things from actu-
ally having oversight, such as loans, to things that have no over-
sight. Now Congress has changed some of these parameters and we
will live with that, but I really do fear that a lot of corruption is
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going to happen, and more corruption will happen as more of this
is turned into grants.
So as we move forward, Mr. Chairman, I think it is important
that we continue to have a debate over what works and what does
not work. And the virus has been devastating in many ways to so
many people. You know, I have friends who have died from the
virus. I have friends who are currently sick with it. But simply say-
ing, oh, we must do things, where there is no evidence that these
things are working, I think it is important that we re-evaluate
them, and we re-evaluate whether or not giving monies to states
actually encourages them to open the economy or discourages them
from opening the economy.
I, for one, think that the only thing that will change the trajec-
tory of this is the vaccine, and I look forward to the time when we
get the vaccine out to more people. The states that are utilizing pri-
vate entities to help them get it out are doing better. In Florida
they are using Publix pharmacies. I would suggest that we need to
very rapidly gear this thing up.
In my home state, if you call the Public Health Department and
you want a vaccine you will get a 20-minute message. You will be
unlikely to find a person, and the first thing they tell you on the
message is, ‘‘Oh, if you know somebody not wearing their mask, let
us know their name so we can have the police go talk to them.’’
Nowhere on the machine or on the Public Health website is any
place where you can sign up for a vaccine. You know, I think what
we should be doing is having large sign-up sheets with your name,
your age, and trying to get people on a list where we can call them
in to get the vaccine instead of being so intent on trying to punish
or harass people that you do not think are adhering to whatever
mandates that really do not seem to be appearing to change the
trajectory of the virus.
So I think as we continue to have this debate I hope you will
work very hard. I am hopeful that you will try to oversee the ad-
ministration of these loans without letting them get out of hand.
And I wish you the best of luck. Thank you.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Paul. I appreciate your
opening statement.
Ms. Guzman, if you would rise. It is the tradition of our Com-
mittee to swear in the nominees for the Administrator of the SBA.
If you would raise your right hand and repeat after me.
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ms. GUZMAN. I do.
Chairman CARDIN. You may be seated.
I have two questions that are asked again to all nominees to be
Administrator of the SBA. Should you become confirmed as Admin-
istrator, are you willing to appear and testify before any duly con-
stituted committee of Congress when requested to do so?
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, I will.
Chairman CARDIN. Are you willing to provide such committee as
is requested by any such committee the information that they re-
quest?
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, I will.
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Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. You may now give us your open-
ing statement. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF ISABELLA CASILLAS GUZMAN, OF CALI-
FORNIA, TO BE ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. SMALL BUSINESS AD-
MINISTRATION
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you so much. Good morning, incoming
Chairman Cardin, as well as incoming Ranking Member Paul,
members of the Committee. It is an honor to appear before you
today, and thanks to Senator Padilla for introducing me to the
Committee. I am very proud that he is representing California.
As a product of and lifelong advocate for America’s small busi-
nesses, I am honored and profoundly grateful that President Biden
has nominated me to serve as the next Administrator of the U.S.
Small Business Administration. I am deeply committed to helping
support our Nation’s small businesses and entrepreneurs and
would be proud to lead the SBA and help small businesses start,
operate, grow, and be resilient.
Let me tell you about my background. I grew up in a small busi-
ness family in California, visiting and working with my dad at his
veterinary hospital. What I remember more than anything, I loved
the connection he had with the clients he served every day. At a
young age, I experienced first-hand how important small business
owners are to the communities they serve and why we rightly call
them the fabric of our neighborhoods. They enliven our Main
Streets, create the products and services that enrich our lives, and
innovate to solve the world’s problems.
If confirmed, I pledge to serve as their voice and represent the
enormous diversity across our small businesses, from independent
contractors and sole proprietors to startups and innovative tech-
nology and science-based firms to Main Street and manufacturing,
of all sizes and all stages of development, and all entrepreneurs
from diverse backgrounds and geographies.
At over 30 million strong, small businesses power our economy.
They represent vastly all of our Nation’s total businesses and em-
ploy nearly half of the private workforce.
But they are facing an unprecedented crisis and need our sup-
port to survive and thrive again. As this Committee knows so well,
small businesses across the country have been devastated by the
pandemic and economic downturn. I feel a sense of urgency that we
need to work harder than ever, think more creatively than ever,
and build more collaboration than ever to meet this moment.
Throughout my career, I have started businesses and helped en-
trepreneurs launch and grow their firms, and I appreciate and un-
derstand the challenges they face every day. We all know a small
business owner who works so hard, wearing multiple hats to tena-
ciously pursue their dreams, the American dream. As California’s
current Small Business Advocate I have also seen the impossible
situations and intense frustrations small business owners are expe-
riencing as they attempt to survive the COVID–19 pandemic. Many
have experienced revenue drops, increasing debt, and shrinking
cash flows as a result of the health and safety guidance and
lockdown restrictions and changing marketplaces.
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Small businesses need a team behind them. SBA must be a part
of that team, helping them access capital and connecting them to
marketplaces to build revenues and to networks that can help them
navigate resources to improve outcomes so that they can do what
they do best: create our Nation’s jobs and help spur our economy.
I am confident that I can hit the ground running and deliver the
recovery policies of the Administration and this Committee. Presi-
dent Biden is committed to addressing inequities in our economy
and providing relief to those who are struggling during the pan-
demic. He has focused on building our economy back better and
strengthening our small businesses. And America’s small busi-
nesses are counting on effective and equitable implementation of
COVID–19 relief and recovery programs passed by Congress and
implemented by the SBA, because their survival is at risk.
If confirmed, I would leverage my prior experience serving in
leadership at the SBA and commit to working diligently to be a
good steward of its programs. I am committed to ensuring the
agency has the right systems, technology, and operating processes
in place to advance its mission and reach all our small businesses.
Most importantly, I will work to ensure funds get into the hands
of the small businesses who have been hurt the most by the pan-
demic and economic crisis through no fault of their own. I also
pledge to be transparent, responsive, and accessible to this Com-
mittee about SBA’s operations and needs.
President Biden has committed to advancing racial justice and
equity for all Americans. If confirmed, I am committed to helping
the SBA advance opportunity for all, including our underserved en-
trepreneurs who have faced historic barriers to start and grow
their businesses.
I am deeply honored by the President’s nomination and look for-
ward to getting to work immediately with the mission-driven civil
servants at the SBA to help all of America’s small businesses build
better futures for their families and their communities. Their suc-
cess is our country’s success.
Thank you, Mr. Incoming Chairman. I look forward to all of the
Committee members’ questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Guzman follows:]
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Chairman CARDIN. Ms. Guzman, thank you very much for that
opening statement, and I particularly appreciate your comments
about working with our Committee and transparency issues that,
in general, worked well with the Trump administration. We had a
very fine relationship with sharing of information and imple-
menting the new laws that were passed in the CARES Act and re-
inforced by subsequent legislation.
There was one notable exception, and I mentioned it in my open-
ing statement. We had a very difficult time getting the granular in-
formation on the loans in order to do our oversight in Congress as
well as to adjust the program to make sure that the funds were
getting to the small businesses in an equitable manner, particu-
larly those in underserved communities. We introduced legislation,
made requests to require demographic information be supplied by
the borrowers so we could determine where the loans were going
from the point of view of communities, whether the underserved
communities were really being treated fairly. And we were basi-
cally unable to get that information.
Just very recently, we got some information. On January 31st,
the SBA released data on the performance of the 2021 PPP pro-
gram—this is one that just was passed in December—and unfortu-
nately less than 22 percent of the borrowers completed the demo-
graphic questionnaire.
So my question to you is, what will you do to improve the trans-
parency that you mentioned in your statement so that we can get
the data we need to make sure that the programs that we have cre-
ated are reaching the intended small businesses in an equitable
manner, particularly those who have traditionally been under-
served? How are we going to make sure we get that demographic
information in order to evaluate and oversight the program as well
as adjust it moving forward?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I do believe
wholeheartedly that managing with data and information is crit-
ical. I agree with you that decisions rest on performance, and so
it would be my priority to ensure that communication and collabo-
ration is open on that information, you know, further that we are
leveraging our technology fully and our systems and processes to
ensure that we can provide insights as we move along for any ad-
justments as we proceed.
So it is definitely a priority, especially in ensuring strong over-
sight and control.
Chairman CARDIN. I would just urge you to work with the staffs
of our Committee on this issue, because it has been a real chal-
lenge for us, and we have been working in the blind in crafting leg-
islation. We had a hard time getting information even on the draw-
down on the program, when it first started up, to make sure there
was adequate funding provided.
So I take your commitment to work with us in a way that we
can share information so that, as policymakers, we can support
your mission with timely information to make adjustments, if need-
ed.
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, I would completely. Thank you. And I would
make sure that my staff is available as well to collaborate with the
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Committee and staff and individual members as concerns are
raised.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. I want to deal with eligibility for
SBA programs for those who have criminal records, and I start
here because as the Paycheck Protection Program was imple-
mented, SBA adopted an entirely new exclusion for partial owners
convicted of any felony within the last five years.
Now we raised objections, bipartisan objections. I worked with
Senator Portman and Senator Lankford and others to try to get an
adjustment on that. We thought it should be eliminated in its en-
tirety. The Treasury and SBA made an adjustment to reduce that
to one year, but they still did not deal with those accused of crime,
before their convictions, and still had prohibitions that we thought
were against what was the intent of Congress.
Tell me how you feel about returning citizens being eligible for
SBA programs if their criminal convictions had nothing to do with
any type of an economic crime or they are just accused of a crime
and they have not yet had their day in court.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. Actually, when I served at the
Small Business Administration we focused on the re-entry popu-
lation, looking at how we could expand the programs to ensure that
we were working to spur entrepreneurship in this community. So
if confirmed it would be my pleasure to return to that, to some of
those programs analysis, and figure out how we can continue to
support entrepreneurship with the re-entry population.
Chairman CARDIN. And then, lastly, let me just call your atten-
tion to two bills that I have filed with other colleagues, one dealing
with venture capital in minority businesses and emerging markets,
the other dealing with partnerships with our HBCUs and minority
institutions to help in regards to incubator and accelerator pro-
grams. And I would just encourage you to take a look at these bills,
see whether we can work together on this. Some of this may be
able to be handled administratively, which is consistent with your
statement on helping the underserved community. And I just call
that to your attention and hope we can work together on those
issues.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you. I will definitely pay attention to those
two pieces and look at the SBA programs and how we can fully uti-
lize those programs.
Chairman CARDIN. For the benefit of the members of the Com-
mittee, we will proceed by seniority order, because I do not know
when people got on the—we were joined by many people that are
on the internet. So first on my list would be Senator Scott. Let’s
see how we get you connected here.
Senator SCOTT. Senator Cardin?
Chairman CARDIN. We got you. You are on, Senator.
Senator SCOTT. Okay. Excellent. Good morning, Senator Cardin.
Thank you for introducing me, and Ms. Guzman, thank you for
your willingness to serve. Without much of a question this is a
really important time to be serving as the Small Business Adminis-
trator. And I will say to Senator Cardin’s last comment, as it re-
lates to those who are formerly incarcerated, who have paid for
their deeds for their crimes, it really is important for us to make
sure that they are acclimated and then assimilated into the line for
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15
the access to the Small Business Administration, the Paycheck Pro-
tection Program.
And I will note that Senator Booker and myself, we were able to
get guidance from the previous Administrator of the SBA to make
sure that those folks who were not involved in financial crime, as
Senator Cardin just alluded to, had an opportunity to avail them-
selves to the loans, be it the EIDL loan or the PPP loans. That is
a really important part of creating jobs and opportunity and grow-
ing equity in this country, for those who were formerly incarcer-
ated.
One of the other issues that is really important to me, Ms.
Guzman, is the fact that 30 million-plus small businesses around
the country depend on you to be their voice, to be the person that
is at the table within this administration when talking about some
of the common sense priorities that must be understood from the
prism of a small business owner’s perspective. I thank you for
working as a small business owner yourself in your father’s busi-
ness. I certainly am a former small business owner and understand
and appreciate that the more you increase cost, the fewer jobs you
create, and the devastating impact that it can have in the middle
of a pandemic.
That said, I am very concerned that the small businesses around
the country need a voice at the table as it relates to this minimum
wage debate that we will be having for the next several weeks, if
not several years. I am hoping that you will be a voice of reason
at that table, especially having been a part of a small business.
I will say that last week I had the opportunity to visit a res-
taurant here in Washington, DC, in the Union Market District, a
restaurant called Bidwell. I had a chance to speak with the owner,
Chef John, and the bar manager, who did a wonderful job of dis-
tilling the importance of not increasing the minimum wage, par-
ticularly in the midst of a pandemic, when we have already seen
110,000 restaurants close their doors permanently, and thousands,
if not millions of others are holding on by a thread.
By increasing the cost of labor you actually reduce the number
of businesses, and according to the Congressional Budget Office the
number of businesses that we could see lost is in the hundreds of
thousands, which will lead to up to almost 4 million lost jobs in the
economy, and those numbers were pre-pandemic. I can only imag-
ine that those numbers are infinitely worse in the middle of the
pandemic, and my question to you is, as you take all those facts
into consideration can we count on you being a voice of reason, try-
ing to find a way to explain the plight of 30 million small busi-
nesses? And I will say that that is a really important consideration
that small businesses would love to understand and appreciate
your position on.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. You know, I know that out of
this pandemic we need a shared recovery. In California, I actually
work closely with multiple organizations. I believe in hearing all
voices, and I believe strongly in being the voice of small business,
that they really do power my work, and those stories mean a lot
to me, of the different restaurants and bar owners and service in-
dustry folks that I have met in my service.
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16
And so those stories are really what propel my work, and so I
do intend on being the voice of small business at the table and uti-
lizing the resources, if confirmed, at the SBA, including the Office
of Advocacy that does extensive research and is an independent
agency, to make sure that I am aware of the issues and can voice
those concerns.
And then in addition, the SBA has great programs to help small
businesses adapt to the marketplace, and I would want to be sure
that I can help them navigate through any challenges and be——
Senator SCOTT. Thank you very much. Yes, ma’am. Absolutely. I
will make this my last note since my time is running out, that the
reality of the minimum wage conversation and debate really should
be one that is concerned from a regional perspective. In states like
South Carolina, our cost of living is about 5.8 percent lower than
the average, where in New York it is about 52 percent higher, and
in California it is 46 percent higher, and here in D.C. it is 57 per-
cent higher. So when you are having a conversation about increas-
ing the cost of business, you are not only lowering the number of
employees, you are also having a national conversation about some-
thing that has a more regional feel.
Thank you for your time and I will submit other questions for
the record. Thank you, Ms. Guzman. Thank you, Senator Cardin.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Scott. Senator Shaheen.
Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to Ms.
Guzman, thank you for being willing to be considered for this nomi-
nation at this critical time. I think everyone has pointed out the
importance of the Small Business Administration in helping our
small businesses get through this emergency that we are experi-
encing because of COVID. And I very much appreciate all the hard
work that those at SBA did after the passage of our bills last year
to help small businesses.
But I would like to begin with agreeing with Senator Cardin that
one of the biggest challenges we had was trying to get information
from SBA about how the PPP program and the EIDL programs
were working. And it is not clear to me if the challenge is that
there are not systems in place to provide that data or everyone was
so overworked that they were not able to get it for us. But I hope
you will commit today to—I heard you say you will talk to the staff
and make sure that they produce whatever reports are requested
by the Committee. I hope you will also agree to come before us and
to ensure that any staff that is requested come before us as well,
to discuss concerns that we might have.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you. Yes, no, I do appreciate that this col-
laboration with the Committee is very important, and so I would
completely respect that and work hard to do that.
Senator SHAHEEN. Great. Thank you. One of the programs that
was created in the most recent COVID bill, back in December, was
a new program to help with live entertainment venues. They have
been particularly hard hit in New Hampshire and across the coun-
try, because most of them do not have a large number of full-time
employees. They have part-time employees and so the PPP dollars,
as you know, did not work quite the same way for those venues.
And under the program, SBA is authorized to make up to $15
billion in grants, but we still have not seen any of the guidance
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from SBA on how those grants will be made available, and we are
hearing a great deal of concern from small businesses in New
Hampshire who are interested in applying and are really getting
desperate.
So can you talk about how you might get this program up and
running as soon as possible?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. If confirmed, my priority will
be on—number one priority will be on ensuring that COVID relief
is implemented efficiently, quickly, as well as equitably, including
the Shuttered Venues Grants. So this would be one of the day one
priorities, is to understand where they are at with this process and
make sure that this is implemented as quickly as possible.
Senator SHAHEEN. Great. Thank you. We had the opportunity to
talk a couple of weeks ago, which I very much appreciated, and one
of the things we talked about was the STEP program to help states
with small businesses with exporting their goods. And it is legisla-
tion that I care a lot about, because I helped to introduce it and
see it get passed.
And when it is working well it is very effective, but as you may
be aware the GAO identified several outstanding issues with the
STEP program that I would just call to your attention. First that
a significant portion of funding has been returned to SBA because
administrative requirements are too burdensome, and that is what
I hear on a regular basis, that there is not enough flexibility in the
program, the paperwork that is required is very difficult for, as you
know, for many of these small businesses they do not have some-
body who can fill out burdensome administrative requirements.
And so it has been really challenging, and there is a whole list
of concerns that GAO expresses. Inconsistent program guidance—
our small businesses hear from other businesses in other states
that they have been allowed to do things that our folks in New
Hampshire are being told they are not allowed to do under the
grants. Lack of flexibility. Just a whole range of things.
So can you talk about what you might be able to do as Adminis-
trator to help address some of those long-time problems within the
STEP program?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. Yes, twofold, I am both famil-
iar from my work at the SBA with the STEP program. I did imple-
ment programs and priorities on behalf of the Administrator,
operationalizing the vision, and STEP was one of those that I
worked extensively on, so I do understand some of those chal-
lenges. In addition, as a recipient in California, we administered
the program, and I have heard directly from small businesses who
have had challenges. So I would use those two past experiences to
really dive in and try to ensure that we implement that program
as efficiently as possible, and across all these programs it would be
simplification, understanding the experience of small business.
Senator SHAHEEN. Well, so given your insights, why has it been
such problem with this program?
Ms. GUZMAN. I understand that there were lots of programmatic
issues when they first established it and in terms of making really
strong controls and measures. And so balancing that with effi-
ciently and effectively getting the program out is, I think, the chal-
lenge. And so I would need to dive back in and understand where
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18
they are at with some of those changes to see if there are ways to
simplify the program.
Senator SHAHEEN. I appreciate that very much. You know, my
recollection is that this legislation was passed in 2010, so after 10
years it seems like these problems should have been worked out.
So we will stay in touch and I can assure you I will continue to
ask questions to see how we can make progress and stand ready
to help you with that. Thank you.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Ernst.
Senator ERNST. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much, and is it
Guz-mon [phonetic] or Guz-man?
Ms. GUZMAN. Guz-mon [phonetic.]
Senator ERNST. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Guzman. I really enjoyed
our conversation the other day and thank you for making time for
that.
I really do appreciate the fact that you are stepping up to serve
our small businesses across the United States, especially during a
really difficult time of COVID–19. And for nearly a year the mem-
bers of this particular Committee have worked tirelessly to find so-
lutions for the very significant challenges that are facing our small
businesses, and they have been battered, just relentlessly, by
COVID–19, and you understand that quite well.
So we really have a great deal of pride in the Paycheck Protec-
tion Program. We do think it has been very helpful. There have
been a few hiccups here and there, but again, we are just grateful
to have come together in providing vital assistance to our small
businesses and saving millions of jobs across the United States.
And so, Ms. Guzman, if confirmed, I really do look forward to
working with you and your team. We have got to strengthen and
improve these programs and find ways to continue to bring assist-
ance to all of these wonderful entrepreneurs and small businesses
across Iowa and across the country, as we continue on that path
to recovery.
There is one hiccup that I would like to ask you about, which is
very concerning to a number of us. In the CARES Act, Congress
made it very, very clear that SBA’s affiliation rules must apply to
nonprofit organizations in determining the eligibility for the Pay-
check Protection Program. So in order to receive that first draw,
those small businesses or nonprofits could not employ more than
500 people across each of their affiliations. For the second draw on
the loan they could not employ more than 300 people.
Despite employing more than 16,000 people nationwide, reports
emerged last year that many Planned Parenthood affiliates ille-
gally applied for and received those PPP loans. So as Adminis-
trator, will you commit to upholding the CARES Act and ensuring
that those who violate SBA rules are held accountable?
Ms. GUZMAN. I would definitely commit to being a good steward
of the program as the rules and regulations have been spelled out,
and would look forward to discussing affiliation with you further,
if confirmed.
Senator ERNST. Yes, thank you. And we will have additional dis-
cussions on that. We want to make sure that those businesses,
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those nonprofits that truly do have a need and meet the rules are
those that are receiving.
Senator Shaheen also mentioned the Shuttered Venue Operators
grant program. Really important in Iowa as well. So I am very glad
that you will be taking time and attention to work on the rules
there.
One of the topics that we touched on during our call last week
was the topic of child care, and it is so important that we address
this issue. We have a lack of affordable child care across the State
of Iowa, and the role the SBA could play in helping these child care
entrepreneurs, we really want to develop and explore that.
So in the last Congress, by colleague, Senator Rosen, and I intro-
duced legislation that would allow nonprofit child care centers to
utilize SBA capital access programs. Can you speak to the role that
you believe the SBA should play in addressing the child care crisis
and helping child care operators, especially in our rural areas?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I know
President Biden has prioritized the Care Economy, and we know
how important child care is, especially to our women entre-
preneurs, in order for them to succeed. The SBA does have pro-
grams that it can utilize as well as I would welcome the oppor-
tunity to explore ways that we can better serve the child care facili-
ties. So in addition to the current loan programs and the Small
Business Development Center targeted programming that exists, in
California there are some great best practices of intensive training
for child care providers, and I would welcome the opportunity to
make sure that we are leveraging those, scaling those, as well as
looking at other opportunities to help.
Senator ERNST. Well, I appreciate that, and I am running out of
time. I do want to take a moment to say, though, that I did enjoy
our conversation. I was thoroughly impressed with your knowledge
of the various programs through SBA, and, Ms. Guzman, I look for-
ward to supporting your confirmation, so thank you very much.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you so much, Senator.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. Senator Markey by WebEx.
Senator MARKEY. Great. Thank you so much, and welcome, Ms.
Guzman. I enjoyed our conversation last week and I am absolutely
confident that President Biden made an excellent choice to be the
new head of the SBA.
Massachusetts is a huge beneficiary of the SBIR and STTR pro-
grams. Here are some of the numbers. Since the program was cre-
ated, Massachusetts companies have received 22,000 of the grants,
and last year alone 593 awards valued at over $350 million went
to Massachusetts companies, which has really helped to create an
ecosystem of innovation in the State of Massachusetts.
We talked during our conversation last week about how strongly
I believe that we must ensure that the SBIR program is available
to truly small businesses. For a long time there have been efforts
to open up the program more and more so that venture capital-
backed companies can access the funding. I am concerned that if
we open up this program too much to venture capital funding we
will crowd out access to funding needed by truly small businesses.
Do you have any thoughts on proposals to increase venture cap-
ital involvement in the SBIR program?
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Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator Markey, and I did enjoy our
conversations about this and other topics. The SBIR program, or
America’s Seed Fund, is one of the most critical programs that the
SBA has. I agree that with the impact great companies have come
out of that program. You know, I know that ensuring that small
businesses have access to the Federal research dollars is a priority
and I would commit to being a good steward to ensure that our
small businesses, and not only that but the underserved commu-
nities, including our rural as well as women and people of color,
have access to this program. I think that there are great ideas that
exist around our country and ensuring that there are these avail-
able grants to spur that innovation as well as help businesses com-
mercialize is really a priority. So I would look forward to
partnering to figure out how we can maintain that strength of the
program and improve it.
Senator MARKEY. Okay. And again, my question actually goes to
obviously the role of the venture capital world, which has access to
plenty of capital it wants to play in moving into this sector as well,
which I catch arched eyebrows that hit the ceiling as I look at their
interests in this program, knowing how well it is already serving
the smallest businesses, the entrepreneurial, the innovative busi-
nesses in our country.
And, Ms. Guzman, I would ask for your commitment to ensure
that the SBIR program continues to be based on merit, and I would
also ask for your thoughts on how we can provide more funding for
small businesses across the country who may not have access to a
Massachusetts or a California business university type of eco-
system.
Ms. GUZMAN. The program is a great program, and if there is an
opportunity to continue to expand capital to early stage venture
companies as well as early stage researchers who are trying to for-
mulate these great innovations I think that is a strong program
that we should deliver against.
And in terms of the specifics of merit, I think the program is very
strong, and we need to make sure that we are investing in the best
ideas across the country.
Senator MARKEY. Yeah, thank you. There is always a kind of an
uncertainty about the funding for the SBIR program. Do you sup-
port making the SBIR program permanent?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that, Senator, and if confirmed I
know SBIR reauthorization is right around the corner. You know,
it is a program that has been emulated, respected across the globe,
and I do think it is a very critical program that I would like to see
continued at the SBA.
Senator MARKEY. Okay. And do you believe that just 3 percent
of Federal R&D for startups and entrepreneurs is adequate, or
would you support an increase in the allocation percentage that
goes to startups and entrepreneurs?
Ms. GUZMAN. My role will always be to be the voice of small busi-
ness and advocate on their behalf. In addition, I would be a good
steward of the programs as implemented by Congress, as well as
the priorities of the administration.
Senator MARKEY. And I am glad that you are going to be taking
this job and I am very heartened by the level of support that you
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are clearly going to bring to ensure that minority-owned businesses
have the same access to capital as other businesses, and it is very
heartening to me to hear your level of commitment to that goal.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator.
Senator MARKEY. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Inhofe.
Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for hosting this
meeting, and Ms. Guzman, I enjoyed our visit. We had a chance to
talk about some of the—and this is so important to me. I think I
impressed upon you that Oklahoma is—we are a small business
community. In fact, I questioned my staff when they said that we
had statistical data that showed that 99 percent of the businesses
in Oklahoma are small businesses employing over half of the work-
ers in Oklahoma. So I think we are the ones that really need this
program.
There are two problems with it, that have nothing to do with the
pandemic but things I want to call to your attention, because they
are things that we need to be addressing that you may not have
thought of before. And I agree with the comments that have been
made about the Paycheck Protection Program, and it is—has been
very helpful.
A problem that we have in my State of Oklahoma, and, of course,
maybe I am partly to blame, is that our businesses do not know
what resources are out there, but the SBA does, what their mission
is, what is available to them. And I have not been able to—some-
times I get a response of surprise that resources are out there.
Do you have any ideas on what you could do to maybe work to-
gether to lift the awareness of what SBA is all about and what is
there for our small businesses?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator Inhofe. I agree that connection
to resources is one of the biggest challenges for small businesses.
President Biden has prioritized establishing navigators in commu-
nities, so local voices who can connect to small businesses and in-
form them of the resources that exist. If confirmed, I would want
to leverage SBA’s field offices, resource partners, as well as exten-
sive partnerships across chambers and other organizations to help
to that end.
Senator INHOFE. So he has talked to you about this?
Ms. GUZMAN. The President has mentioned several times naviga-
tors in terms of his priorities, and so yes, for the Small Business
Administration that would be one of our priorities.
Senator INHOFE. And sometimes we run into this in government.
There are opportunities and they reach a level of perfection and yet
it is not reaching the ones that are supposed to be reached. Be-
cause I think there are some things that maybe as members,
maybe some of my fellow members are doing things I am not doing,
but I have not been successful in doing this and this is something
I think really should be a pretty high priority. So I look forward
to working with you on that.
Now another program that has been promoted, and not just due
to the pandemic but the program ongoing, is the EIDL program.
That is the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program, as you are
fully aware of. It was designed originally for natural disasters. Now
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in my State of Oklahoma we have had more than our share of nat-
ural disasters, and so this has been very helpful.
But we do hear, quite often, that the EIDL program has experi-
enced a lot of delays in process, and also heard of significant issues
of fraud inside the program, and I believe that is true. In fact, one
constituent shared that her husband did not apply for an EIDL and
yet an application appeared and information was used fraudulently
and used in an application. Now I do not know how that happened,
but we do hear that it does happen.
Have you addressed the fraud and abuse problem in that par-
ticular program?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. If confirmed, I would prioritize
the reduction of fraud, waste, and abuse as well as implementing
controls and systems and leveraging the technology systems, the
new technology systems they implemented to ensure this program
gets into the hands of the small businesses who need it. I have
heard those same stories in California. Very frustrated small busi-
nesses are those who could not receive it or get an answer, and I
want to prioritize making sure that we——
Senator INHOFE. So in your experience you have had personal ex-
perience with this?
Ms. GUZMAN. Correct.
Senator INHOFE. Well, that is good and I am glad that you are
aware of that.
And the last thing I wanted to bring up is the fact that we are
aware that some businesses are afraid to reopen because of frivo-
lous lawsuits, and our businesses cannot stay closed because they
are afraid of being sued. And these businesses will continue to play
a central role in rebuilding our local economies. I think it is some-
thing that we need to be looking at, and I would just ask you to
agree with me on the importance of providing liability protections
to these businesses, to ensure our businesses are not at risk over
frivolous lawsuits.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that, Senator. I know that liability
is a big concern for small businesses, and ensuring that we are ad-
dressing the pandemic and making it safe for people out in the
marketplace is really critical. I will be the voice of small business
and express their concerns and use their stories to be elevated and
share those experiences.
Senator INHOFE. Well, that is good, and I am looking forward to
working with you in the future and supporting your nomination.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you so much, Senator.
Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Coons.
Senator COONS. Thank you, Chairman Cardin, and Senator
Rubio, and I would like to thank the Committee staff, Meredith
and Sean, for working so hard to schedule this Committee hearing
quickly, and Mrs. Guzman, it is a delight to be with you today. I
really enjoyed our call, and I look forward to supporting your nomi-
nation and to working closely with you as you lead the Small Busi-
ness Administration going forward.
The crisis that our Nation is enduring at the moment, this pan-
demic and the recession associated with it, is hitting restaurants
particularly hard, as you well know. And last summer Senators
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Sinema and Wicker, Graham, and I introduced the Restaurants Act
to provide direct grants, not just loans, to hard-hit independent res-
taurants. I heard just yesterday from Sasha Aber, a friend who
runs Home Grown Cafe in Newark, Delaware. She is a regular at
the annual Taste of Delaware that we do in the Kennedy Caucus
Room, and I hope you will join us next year. Sasha was telling me
this weekend just how hard-hit her business has been and how she
and her employees, and many other restaurants in my State, need
more help.
I am really encouraged by President Biden’s focus on helping res-
taurants in the American Rescue Plan, and I would be interested
in how you think we can best deliver that, why you think grants
are more important than loans, and how significant you think it is
to target assistance to sectors like restaurants that have had a par-
ticularly difficult time of it.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. I had the pleasure of serving
on the Governor’s Task Force on Business and Jobs Recovery dur-
ing the COVID response, and with the California Restaurant Asso-
ciation chairman on small business issues specifically, so I have
heard from him, you know, many stories about how this is affecting
California restaurants as an example, and that is a microcosm of
what is happening across the country.
You know, a lot of these businesses are straddled with debt, have
limited cash flow, and so grants have been in high demand across
multiple sectors. So I recognize that for small businesses to survive
this grants are needed as well, as well as targeted relief to ensure
that our small businesses who really need it are able to survive
this pandemic. So I would look forward to working with you col-
laboratively on this issue.
Senator COONS. I was struck to see this morning, in the Dela-
ware Business Times, that Delaware is so far coming in last in
terms of the second round of PPP loans, in terms of the count and
volume. To my knowledge, and to my staff’s knowledge, that is not
due to any deficiency on the part of Delaware’s lenders or busi-
nesses. I think it is important the SBA monitor the geographic dis-
tribution of funds. I hope you will work with me on that. I think
part of it may be because audits for first-round PPP loans are more
cumbersome than may be necessary. There have been days of back-
and-forth between auditors, lenders, and borrowers, even for loans
as small as $10,000.
How will you balance the important priorities of program integ-
rity and efficiency, in terms of speed?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that. I do think that that is the chal-
lenge of that balance. You know, I am quite familiar with the pro-
grams, and if confirmed I would look forward to figuring out how
we can push as much as possible to make these simple for our
small businesses to understand and leverage, because it is very dif-
ficult for them to go through mountains of papers to try to figure
things out. So, you know, I know that we can better use our field,
our resource partners, and get communications out there that help
small businesses.
Senator COONS. And as we spoke about, those resource partners
can be absolutely critical. Particularly to smaller businesses, for
those that are women-owned, minority-owned, accessible advice
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24
and counseling is vital, particularly to navigate a crisis like this
and to understand SBA’s programs.
Shawnee Inn in Greenwood, Delaware, is an example. It is oper-
ated by Diane Eby, and Diane asked Cindy Small at Delaware’s
SBDC for help early in the pandemic, and Cindy helped her get not
just a PPP loan but FEMA approval to house Federal employees,
which then helped her get through.
I would be interested in how you see SCORE and SBDCs and
other resource partners working to make sure that our small busi-
nesses can access the great programs SBA provides.
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, and as a small business owner I used SCORE
myself. I learned all about patents from one of their advisors, so
I know that there are some great resources out there in the com-
munity. In California, we actually match and leverage the Federal
resource partners, and they have been critical on the ground in in-
forming small businesses. So I would look forward to being a good
steward of those programs and making sure they are reaching com-
munities.
Senator COONS. As you know, SCORE was founded in Delaware,
and I look forward to working with you to strengthen it.
My last question, we discussed the urgent need to support new
entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs of color, women entrepreneurs, those
living in distressed communities, and you mentioned the lack of
runway capital as a major barrier. Please explain that problem and
the consequences of leaving it unaddressed. I am hopeful that the
next generation Entrepreneurship Act, which Senator Scott and I
co-authored, could be a part of the solution to this challenge.
Ms. GUZMAN. Well, as President Biden has said, our talent and
our spirit of entrepreneurship, as well as our ideas, come from all
parts of the country, and unfortunately there are many commu-
nities that face barriers to capital or have experienced historic rac-
ism or barriers that have prevented them from building the wealth
that is needed for accessing capital or relying on friends and fam-
ily.
And so these entrepreneurs, and their great ideas, need to be
supported as well for our economy to grow and for job creation to
happen. So I think it is really critical that we look at all of our pro-
grams from that lens of equity and make sure that we are reaching
our underserved populations.
Senator COONS. Well, Mrs. Guzman, I look forward to supporting
your confirmation and to working closely with you. This has been
one of the most functional, productive committees I serve on in the
Senate, and I am hopeful we will get a great deal done together
during this period when our small businesses need you and the
SBA so much. I am so grateful to our incoming Committee Chair-
man for his leadership as well. Thank you.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman CARDIN. I now call on Senator Young via WebEx.
Senator YOUNG. Ms. Guzman, welcome to the Committee and
thank you for your interest in serving our country in this capacity.
Congratulations on your nomination.
Yesterday I reintroduced the Small Business Innovation Voucher
Act with Senator Cortez Masto. This bill would require the SBA to
establish the Innovation Voucher Grant Program, the first of its
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kind, to support small businesses in carrying out R&D or commer-
cialization of new or innovative products and services.
Now unlike other SBA grant programs, my voucher program
would achieve a different outcome by reallocating Federal funds
from larger, later-stage grants to more small, early stage grants,
and from older firms and regular winners of these grants to young-
er firms and first-time applicants. By building on current models,
it is our belief that we can facilitate public-private partnerships be-
tween small businesses and our world-renowned research institu-
tions, giving our entrepreneurs expanded access to drive innova-
tion.
We have seen this model work in a number of states, particularly
my home State of Indiana. Indiana’s Innovation Voucher Program
has proven itself to be quite successful. Going forward, small busi-
nesses, we believe, will be the key to post-COVID recovery, but the
pandemic has already exacerbated, as you well know, several chal-
lenges preventing firm footing in the marketplace.
So, Ms. Guzman, I ask you, will you commit to working with me
and my office, as well as Senator Cortez Masto, to focus on legisla-
tion such as our Innovation Voucher Program, to facilitate these
public-private partnership?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator, and I enjoyed my conversation
with you as well as Senator Cortez Masto about this issue. I think
I shared with you that I implemented a small innovation grant in
California through the Department of Defense program around cy-
bersecurity, and studied those programs across the state. So I am
familiar and look forward to discussing it further with you and
working with you.
Senator YOUNG. Well, thanks so much, and we will look forward
to following up with you should you be confirmed, as I believe you
will.
What are some other ways that you might share with the Com-
mittee that you would like to see small businesses supported to
bring innovative ideas to the market, as we have seen a decrease
in the number of young firms and their survivability rate of our
smaller firms over the years?
Ms. GUZMAN. Well, young firms are really critical. They are the
large contributors to that two-thirds of net new job number that is
often cited. They are creating jobs. And, if confirmed, I would be
the voice of all small businesses, including these younger firms and
early startups. And so I would look forward to partnering to make
sure that SBA’s programs are leveraged and utilized extensively by
these small businesses.
Senator YOUNG. Thank you. I am going to pivot, Ms. Guzman, to
talking about fintech, financial technology services, these online
banking platforms that are of such great utility to so many Ameri-
cans now. Unfortunately, some of our smallest businesses, such as
those with fewer than ten employees, have trouble accessing tradi-
tional banking networks to obtain SBA-backed loans.
As part of the CARES Act, numerous CDFIs, minority depository
institutions, and fintechs were approved to provide PPP loans, so
that is a good thing. As a short-term option, allowing fintech com-
panies to administer PPP loans during a crisis, and therefore offer-
ing business owners more seamless options, was critical to keeping
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26
many businesses afloat. However, fintech companies do not have
preferred lender status, meaning businesses will still be required
to access other options if SBA loans are out of reach in the future.
So would you kindly, Ms. Guzman, speak to whether you see
fintechs as a new, emerging tool for the Small Business Adminis-
tration in its loan programs?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that. Adoption of fintech across the
banking sector as well as with these new fintech companies and
our CDFIs, even, is really critical. I think expanding distribution
for capital will improve access. And so I look forward to partnering
with the lending institutions broadly, to ensure that we can keep
them engaged in SBA programs. This has been a record high num-
ber of different lenders engaged in SBA than ever before, and I
think we need to take advantage of that.
Senator YOUNG. Excellent. Well, on that issue as well I will look
forward to working with you and your staff, should you be con-
firmed.
Lastly, in my remaining amount of time, and I am unable to see
the clock but it will be less than a minute here, I would like to
mention the RESTART Act. The RESTART Act was a bipartisan
piece of legislation that I developed with Senator Michael Bennet,
receiving 60 bipartisan co-sponsors in the Senate, a couple hundred
in the House. It would create a long-term working capital loan to
our hardest-hit businesses, measured by the amount of revenue
loss they experienced on account of the pandemic. And then there
would be a forgiveness element based on, once again, the economic
impact these businesses have faced on account of the pandemic.
It is industry neutral in its approach, and, look, we all recognize
that there are a number of businesses who are still reeling on ac-
count of the COVID–19 pandemic. My own belief is that it is likely
that some additional assistance will still be required for these busi-
nesses. Do you believe that future support programs should be
modeled after a sort of industry-neutral, long-term working capital
loan program, like the RESTART Act proposes, so that we can tar-
get those hardest-hit businesses?
Ms. GUZMAN. If confirmed, I do look forward to evaluating all of
SBA’s lending products. We do have a variety of options, from the
7A and 504, and, you know, other programs that we can constantly
ensure that small businesses are able to access in order to get cap-
ital, you know, whether it is that long-term patient capital or oth-
erwise. So I would look forward to exploring options as we go
through that analysis and working with this Committee and you
and your staff to ensure that we are able to support all of these
businesses.
Senator YOUNG. Well, I am out of time. It sounds like you are
open to the RESTART Act. Thank you very much.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Booker.
Senator BOOKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Guzman, thank
you so much for taking time to meet with me. I am so excited about
your nomination and I look forward to supporting you on the floor
when it comes to your confirmation vote.
I was kind of excited that my colleagues have already brought up
this issue, Senator Cardin and Senator Scott, the issue of justice-
involved individuals. In 2019, there was more marijuana possession
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arrests in our country than all violent crime combined, and those
people with criminal convictions for doing things that two of the
four last Presidents admitted to doing would be excluded from a lot
of the loan programs that we have seen in PPP and other SBA fi-
nancing. That is ridiculous to me.
And I just want to put a finer point on what I am looking for,
which is just you can do it with the stroke of a pen, can empower
folks. And you know marijuana laws are disproportionately en-
forced against who?
Ms. GUZMAN. People of color.
Senator BOOKER. People of color. So we literally have college
kids, with impunity, smoking pot, but people who are Black and
brown are four times more likely, even though their usage rates
are no different. So that ultimately affects, as the ABA says, 40,000
collateral consequences, and that is one of the reasons why there
is such a wealth disparity between communities of color, because
they are over-policed and over-conflicted for things that are just
unjust.
And so I am really hoping, with a sweep of a pen, that you would
change this. It is an administrative function, and I know it is some-
thing the Vice President and I have worked on these issue when
she was a Senator. The President and I have talked about these
issues ad nauseum. I know where their heart is on these issues.
And so I hate to put you on the spot, but would you commit to
reversing this guidance and creating justice for Black and brown
folks who have been over-incarcerated for these nonviolent drug
crimes, to allow them to have access to these loan programs?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. I believe I shared with you as
well that during my time at the Administration we did focus on
this reentry population as well as making some administrative
changes to simply access. And so I would immediately be willing
to dive in and explore what administrative changes I could make
to open up these loans.
Senator BOOKER. Well, I hope we have a conversation on that
when you stroke that pen, write that out. If you want to see the
most ridiculous happy dance you have ever witnessed, you can
have me there, and I will be happy, because this is something that
is just so painfully wrong. The universe is not that big, but you
could really become a model for the whole Executive branch, where
just somebody got in there and quickly did right, and I know com-
munities would celebrate as much as I will, should and when that
happens.
I am still concerned about Black and brown businesses, you
know, really benefiting from PPP in sort of the second draw. Part
of the issue is that we simply just lack the data to understand the
scope of this sort of issue that a lot of our businesses are doing.
And over the summer the SBA released what little data they had
on PPP lenders. About 86 percent of the 661,218 loans made at the
time had failed to provide any information about race or ethnicity
of the business owner. But we know the Black and brown business
owners across the country are simply not getting the help they
need, and I know you are intimately aware with that.
One analysis, by Accountable.US, found that districts with the
highest Black populations received up to $13 billion less in PPP
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dollars. While we have heard about the improvements to the PPP
distribution since December, it is clear that there is more to be
done to make PPP lending more equitable.
And so I would love to offer my assistance in that. To me, I think
it is something that you could really be a champion of. But I would
love to jump really quick to something I think you, in your incred-
ible career, have a lot of experience with, which is just this idea
that these local loan funds, from your work in California you have
seen this, that really small businesses don’t have banking relation-
ships, but I really think that these local loan funds, one of which
you sort of helped to administer, could really be the source of a lot
of making of changes.
So I put together a bipartisan bill called the RELIEF for Main
Street Act, that would seed and scale efforts like the one you ran
in California particularly aimed at businesses with 20 employees or
less. My bill, which I have worked on with the Chairman and other
members of the Committee, would fund about $15 billion in the He-
roes 2 bill that passed the House last Congress, and I am pleased
to see that President Biden’s American Rescue Plan included a $15
billion designation for the kind of flexible funds that you ran,
which is now something that has me really excited.
And so I just wonder, in the last seconds I have, could you maybe
talk about why getting money into the funds like you ran in Cali-
fornia really provided better advantage for businesses that don’t
have those kind of banking relationships?
Ms. GUZMAN. Well, the California Rebuilding Fund, or the iBank
programs that are administered as loans in California have been
effective in both leveraging dollars as well as working with local
CDFIs and mission lenders to advance access to capital to under-
served communities, specifically. So they have had great track
record. These are local lenders on the ground with connections to
communities, so I do think they are great programs.
And then, of course, the California relief grants that I have been
administering as well, through CDFI networks, through our tech-
nical assistance providers, have been able to reach underserved
communities at really high rates as well.
So I would look forward to bringing those learnings here in D.C.
and seeing how we can scale and leverage programs like that to
help our underserved communities.
Senator BOOKER. That is great. Well, I want to just put one
marker down, as I pass it back to the Chairman. One of the big
concerns I have, and I have seen this in bipartisan conversations
I have had with other members of this Committee, is just the chal-
lenge we have with the vulnerability of our supply chains in this
country. And a lot of times it takes a lot of money, up-front capital,
and ten-year projections to build manufacturing capacity here for
things that we now know are critical, from penicillin to PPE.
And I think this is something that I know the administration is
interested in, and I hope that you could partner with members of
this Committee, because I believe one of the lasting legacies of
President Biden’s Build Back Better could be actually strength-
ening manufacturing, which would have not only an economic plus
to us but it would give us a national security edge should we face
crises in the future, whether they be pandemics or, God forbid,
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military conflicts for us, not to be so dependent upon adversary na-
tions for critical manufacturing.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that. Yes, in California we did look
closely at on-shoring, near-shoring, and I worked in partnership
with the California Manufacturing Technology Association while I
was on the Governor’s task force, and it is a critical issue. We want
to shore up our supply chains and give small businesses an oppor-
tunity to access those supply chains too, with contracting. So pro-
curement and supply chain are very important issues for me, and
if confirmed I would take that passion to the SBA.
Senator BOOKER. Thank you. I look forward to giving a very
hearty yes when it comes to the vote on the floor, and thank you
very much.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you very much.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Booker. We will now go
to Senator Kennedy by WebEx.
Senator KENNEDY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I
cannot see the clock, so if you would let me know when I have 30
seconds left.
Ms. Guzman, congratulations. I want to ask you about our tax
code first. In 2007, as you probably know, Congress changed the
way we tax pass-through entities. I am talking about LLCs, LLPs,
sub-S corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships. Congress ex-
empted 20 percent of income from those pass-through entities from
the Federal income tax. Was that a good idea? Bad idea? What do
you think?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that, Senator. You know, I would
work in partnership with the Office of Advocacy on issues like this,
to understand some of the research they have done as well as be
the voice of small business. While I do not have a specific opinion
on that I would love to get back to you and talk to you further
about it.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, are you familiar with it? Tell me how
it works.
Ms. GUZMAN. I am familiar that, you know, there has been some
tax benefits for these types of organizations, but, you know, I would
need to get back to you on that, in terms of, you know, as it relates
to SBA and the programs. I would basically be the voice of small
business, of course, and tax issues, regulation issues, all these are
of concern, but I do not have specifics on that.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, but, I mean, obviously your job is to
help small businesswomen, small businessmen, and taxes represent
a cost of doing business, just like your electricity bill or your insur-
ance bill. Do you think this provision in the law has helped small
business, or has it hurt it——
Ms. GUZMAN. Senator——
Senator KENNEDY [continuing]. or are you just not familiar with
it?
Ms. GUZMAN. Senator, thank you for flagging it. I am not as fa-
miliar with the research in terms of whether or not it has been ef-
fective or beneficial. So, you know, rather than answer without any
specific knowledge of a research study I would rather research that
further and get back to you on this issue.
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Chairman CARDIN. Senator Kennedy, could I interject for one
minute? I will not take it out of your time.
Senator KENNEDY. Okay.
Chairman CARDIN. Because you are raising a very important
point about the tax code impact on small businesses. We don’t have
jurisdiction over the tax code, but I will be in conversation with
Senator Wyden as to whether we can’t have some opportunity, ei-
ther a joint hearing to look at the tax code impact on small busi-
nesses, because your point is very well taken.
The pass-through, as I understand it, was a rough justice to deal
with the C rate reductions, since most small businesses use the C
rates rather than the corporate rate—they used individual rate
rather than the corporate rate in their taxes. And I think we do
need to get more information on this, because my own personal
view is that small businesses have not benefited to the same extent
that larger companies that use a corporate tax rate from the 2017
tax bill.
I just interject on that because I think this is a subject our Com-
mittee needs to take a greater look at, and I thank you very much
for raising today, at this nomination hearing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. Many
of the small businesses in Louisiana are not C corps, which, as you
know, has the disadvantage of double taxation. Many of the small
businesses in my state are pass-throughs. So this is a very impor-
tant provision, and I, at some point, since Ms. Guzman is going to
be the champion for small business, I would kind of like to know
what her position is on that. I am going to submit a question in
writing, if that is appropriate, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Guzman, let me ask you about, are you familiar with Small
Business Innovation Research grants?
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, Senator, I am.
Senator KENNEDY. And I assume then you are familiar with
Small Business Technology Transfer awards.
Ms. GUZMAN. Correct, yes.
Senator KENNEDY. Okay. Are you familiar with the FAST pro-
gram that we started? FAST is an acronym for a Federal and State
Technology partnership program. Are you familiar with that pro-
gram?
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, Senator, I am.
Senator KENNEDY. As I understand, the FAST program was set
up to try to level the playing field and make sure that these grants
and these awards are more evenly distributed. How has the FAST
program worked? How well has it worked, in your opinion?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you for that question, Senator. It is a really
critical issue that we ensure that SBIR and STTR is able to be uti-
lized across the country. There is definitely disproportionate use in
certain geographics. And so I know that beyond FAST grants,
there’s FAST grants as well as agencies that participate in SBIR
have extended outreach and assistance programs to try to reach
communities who don’t traditionally access these programs. And so
all of them are priority areas for ensuring access to underserved
businesses and underserved small businesses who want to utilize
this America’s Seed Fund. In terms of——
Senator KENNEDY. Well, can I interrupt you just a second——
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Ms. GUZMAN. Sure. Please, Senator.
Senator KENNEDY [continuing]. because I am about to run out of
time. I hate to interrupt people. I am going to come see you, Ms.
Guzman. I don’t think the FAST program has worked. It is still not
leveling the playing field. But we will save that topic for another
day.
If I could ask you—and I interrupted you because I want to real-
ly give you time to answer this question. What is the better way,
as a matter of policy, to increase people’s wages? A minimum wage
increase or an increase in the earned income tax credit?
Ms. GUZMAN. Senator, I don’t have a—you know, I know that my
responsibility will be to take the research and the data and be the
voice of small business, as well as the small business stories
around this issue. I intend to do so, if confirmed, and, you know,
to evaluate and look at the research from both sides. You know, it
has been my practice in California to convene working groups with
various organizations, with difference of opinion, just so that I can
hear and listen to all the opinions across these issues.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, yes, ma’am, and I appreciate that. But
in your opinion, what is a better way to increase wages without im-
pacting business—minimum wage increase or an earned income
tax credit increase?
Ms. GUZMAN. Senator, I would need to evaluate that. It is similar
to my response to you on the previous tax question, that I would
need to further, you know, research the matter and share with you,
you know, at a different time. So thank you for the question.
Senator KENNEDY. How does the earned income tax credit pro-
gram work?
Ms. GUZMAN. Well, SBA would—you know, in terms of the im-
pact on small businesses, I really honestly could not share with you
at this time.
Senator KENNEDY. No, just how does the whole program work?
Ms. GUZMAN. With the earned income tax credit? I mean, busi-
nesses are—all of these programs are trying to ensure that small
businesses are able to, you know, take the tax benefits and credits,
you know, that can support their businesses. You know, again, I
cannot offer you anything further. Sorry. Senator, I know that this
is really a critical issue, and I would look forward to partnering
with you and your office in the future to discuss this further, if con-
firmed.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, it is a critical issue, Ms. Guzman, and
I would encourage you to learn more about the earned income tax
credit. I mean, if we raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, the
Congressional Budget Office says it is going to cost us 1.3 million
jobs in the middle of what some of my colleagues say is a recession,
during the pandemic. An earned income tax credit change—and I
am not advocating here; I am trying to understand your position
on it, because you are going to have to be a champion for small
business. A change in the earned income tax credit, which would
also put more hands in low-income workers, if we paid for it with
an offset or a pay for in the Federal budget, would increase people’s
income without causing people to be laid off.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Kennedy, your time is pretty well ex-
pired.
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Senator KENNEDY. Okay. Did I go over by a lot, Mr. Chairman?
Chairman CARDIN. Well, I took some of your time, so I am trying
to equalize it. But I think you are over by about two minutes right
now.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, I am sorry. Consider this plane landed.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you very much, and I will just repeat
again, on the tax issues I really do think we need to weigh in and
we need to have a view on how that tax code is affecting small
businesses. So I look forward to working with you, Senator Ken-
nedy, on that issue. I serve on the Finance Committee so I will
take that message to the Senate Finance Committee.
Senator KENNEDY. And I am sorry I went over, Mr. Chairman,
but I cannot see the clock.
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Hirono, via WebEx.
Senator HIRONO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, cannot see
the clock, so you need to let me know when I have 30 seconds left.
Ms. Guzman, it is a pleasure to see you again and thank you
very much for the chance to talk with you a few days ago. I ask
these two fundamental questions of every nominee who comes be-
fore any of the committees on which I sit, and while you answered
a similar question to the committee questionnaire I am going to
ask you these questions.
Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted
requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical har-
assment or assault of a sexual nature?
Ms. GUZMAN. No, I have not, Senator.
Senator HIRONO. Have you ever faced discipline or entered into
a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, I have not.
Senator HIRONO. When I had a chance with you, you made a
commitment to making sure that underserved small businesses, in
particular, would have adequate access, maybe more access at this
point, to the $284 billion for PPP that Congress recently approved.
Do you have any specific kinds of things that you would do to make
sure that minority businesses and businesses with fewer than ten
employees, for example, would have access to PPP?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator, for that question. It is a pri-
ority of the Administration to ensure that our underserved busi-
nesses are able to access resources, and I believe that we can better
deploy the community-based resources, our resource partners, as
well as our field offices to ensure that there is strong communica-
tion, strong awareness, strong training so that more businesses can
access this program equitably.
Senator HIRONO. And also when we had a chat I mentioned that
there are a lot of small businesses who have a really hard time
with all of the paperwork and requirements, so they should be as
understandable as possible. So I hope you will take a look at that.
I have a question regarding 8(a), the 8(a) program, and I think
you have a familiarity with that, because we advocated for an ex-
tension, an additional year for businesses to participate in 8(a) pro-
grams and you had advocated for this extension.
So the 8(a) programs support, for example, Native businesses,
Native Hawaiian businesses, Alaska Native businesses. So I would
like you to reinforce that. Do you have a commitment to making
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sure that the outreach to 8(a) programs and support for the 8(a)
program remains a commitment on your part?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator Hirono. I would definitely com-
mit to ensuring that all of our programs are utilized fully, includ-
ing the 8(a) program, and that that outreach is conducted exten-
sively.
Senator HIRONO. And sometimes the 8(a) participants need a lit-
tle bit more time, more flexibility to meet various requirements, so
I hope that the 8(a) businesses that may have difficulty meeting
their business activity targets for commercial or non-Federal reve-
nues, that they would be given adequate time to meet those re-
quirements.
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I would look closely at
that program and make sure that it is aligned with the situation
that so many of these contractors are facing right now, during
COVID and on an ongoing basis, so that they can fully leverage the
program and grow to be successful firms.
Senator HIRONO. So since last year, the Senate Republicans have
been working to prevent Planned Parenthood local chapters from
receiving PPP loans. They are trying to disqualify these chapters
from receiving loans, based on basically an ideological perspective.
And you signed a letter to SBA arguing that local chapters should
be eligible for these loans, and hear continuing concerns about how
SBA tried to apply its affiliate rules to disqualify certain nonprofit
organization from participating in PPP.
So I hope that you will commit to ensuring a fair, mutual, and
consistent application of program rules for similarly situated enti-
ties and not seek to disqualify any organizations based on ideolog-
ical reasons.
Ms. GUZMAN. Senator, if confirmed, I would work hard to imple-
ment the program as per the rules and regulations outlined.
Senator HIRONO. You mentioned that you would look to your
local resource partners, and we had a chat about that, and it is
good to know that you intend to fully use your local resource part-
ners to get the word out to especially minority-owned and other
small businesses as to the availability of PPP loans. I think my
time is up. I see a clock up there now.
Chairman CARDIN. Yes, your time is up.
Senator HIRONO. I can barely see it. Okay. Thank you so much,
Mr. Chairman.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. Senator Hawley? I am not sure
your mic is on.
Senator HAWLEY. How about that?
Chairman CARDIN. Better.
Senator HAWLEY. There we go. Thank you. Let me just start, ac-
tually, with where Senator Hirono just left off, and I know that
Senator Ernst asked you about the affiliation rule as well. So I just
wanted to be clear on the answers that you gave to Senator Ernst
and now just to Senator Hirono.
The CARES Act explicitly says, in the text of the Act, that non-
profits are eligible for PPP funds only if they and their affiliate or-
ganizations have no more than 500 employees. Now Planned Par-
enthood employs approximately 16,000 people across the country,
and according to their own financial statements each and every one
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34
of its offices, both regional and national, each one is affiliated. They
are all affiliated together, which means that each office is ineligible
to receive funds under the text of the Act.
So I just want to be clear that I understand your position on this.
You will enforce, if confirmed, you will enforce the affiliation rule.
Is that correct?
Ms. GUZMAN. I would implement all the rules and regulations as
applies to SBA’s programs, and I welcome the opportunity to dis-
cuss affiliation and its application in these instances.
Senator HAWLEY. Good, and just on Planned Parenthood in par-
ticular, can you commit to ensuring that Planned Parenthood affili-
ates, that are affiliated per the CARES languages, will not receive
funding under PPP?
Ms. GUZMAN. The SBA affiliation rule addresses all of these
issues quite extensively, and I would welcome the opportunity to
review that with your office as well as with the SBA staff, if con-
firmed, to ensure that we are following all the rules and regula-
tions.
Senator HAWLEY. Do you regard it as an open question? I mean,
the Planned Parenthood issue, do you regard that as an open ques-
tion, Mrs. Guzman?
Ms. GUZMAN. Senator, I would need to dive into the specifics
around affiliation and the control. It is about independence and
control. And so I would definitely need to dive into this specific
case. I couldn’t give you a specific opinion about one individual en-
tity at this point.
Senator HAWLEY. Let me ask you about a different set of non-
profits, religious nonprofits. After the passage of the CARES Act,
my office, we were inundated with requests from churches and
other religious nonprofits in my state, the State of Missouri, saying
that they had been told by some local and regional SBA offices that
they were not eligible to participate in PPP, this despite very clear
language in the CARES Act that makes religious nonprofits,
501(c)(3)s, eligible for assistance, again, provided they have fewer
than 500 employees.
This eligibility was explicitly preserved in the December relief
bill that Congress passed. And my question to you is, can you com-
mit to applying that law and ensuring the churches and other reli-
gious nonprofits continue to be eligible to receive PPP funding?
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, Senator, in this case as well I would commit
to applying the rules and regulations as defined by Congress and
implementing them at the SBA.
Senator HAWLEY. Very good. And you can commit today to ensur-
ing that churches and religious nonprofits receive equitable treat-
ment, on the same level playing field as every other nonprofit
under the rules. Is that fair to say?
Ms. GUZMAN. I would want to ensure that all of our district of-
fices and our research partners have the communication and un-
derstanding of the programs so that they could equitably distribute
these funds.
Senator HAWLEY. Good. Thank you.
The Economic Injury Disaster Loan program, you and I visited
about this yesterday. I expressed my concern based on the number
of folks in Missouri who had come to me, who are eligible, under
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the terms of the program, but who had a terrible time receiving
funding, and then, of course, as I said to you yesterday, to see the
October OIG report that suggested that that program, the EIDL
program, was rife with waste, fraud, and abuse is particularly—
particularly—frustrating, given the meritorious applicants who ei-
ther had significant delays or weren’t able to get the funding.
So I know you are aware of the issue. Let me just ask you what
steps you will take to ensure the EIDL’s program integrity and
make sure that legitimate small businesses are not getting crowded
out by fraud and abuse.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator, for that question, and I did
enjoy the conversation about that, as we have seen it in California
as well. But the controls and oversight are really critical in these
programs so we can ensure that the right businesses, who are suf-
fering, get these funds. And so I would prioritize implementation
of the relief funding across the board to ensure that that is the
case.
Senator HAWLEY. Very good. Thank you very much for your time.
Congratulations on your nomination. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you. Senator Duckworth by WebEx.
Senator DUCKWORTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Guzman, I
appreciated the opportunity to meet with you a couple of weeks
ago, and I am grateful for the expertise and experience that you
will bring to this role.
We are obviously at a critical juncture in our Nation’s small busi-
nesses, and I want to focus today on how we make sure that SBA
is at the forefront of helping small business owners of every demo-
graphic get back on their feet.
My first question is going to be about the SBA microloan pro-
gram. I think it is one of the most important tools for expanding
access——
Chairman CARDIN. Senator Duckworth, I think we have a prob-
lem on your connection. Let’s see if we can get that re-established.
[Pause.]
Chairman CARDIN. While we are waiting for Senator Duckworth,
let me make a couple of announcements, if I might. At the conclu-
sion of this hearing the record will stay open until 5 p.m. on Friday
for questions for the record, and I would encourage the nominee to
try to respond to those questions as quickly as possible. Once they
are completed, I will then query the offices to see whether we can’t
schedule a floor consideration as quickly as possible. So your co-
operation in responding to the questions for the record would be ex-
tremely helpful, and I would encourage you to do that.
Secondly, I am going to concur in many of the letters of rec-
ommendations that we have received from various groups, includ-
ing receiving today the letter from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce
in support of Mrs. Guzman’s nomination being confirmed. And they
point out that it is very important that we act on the nomination
as soon as possible. Well, I concur in the Chamber’s view, and
without objection will make that letter part of our record.
[The U.S. Chamber of Commerce letter follows:]
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Chairman CARDIN. You have heard, I think, a consistent message
from the members of this Committee. We want to make sure that
the existing tools that the SBA has are targeted to those companies
that need it the most, particularly during this health care pan-
demic, and that we want to fine-tune it and provide the resources
and help to make sure that they are available.
And then in regards to new opportunities and tools, we want to
work with you to see what we can do to provide additional help to
the small business community in our Nation. We have a particular
concern about the underserved community, the underbanked com-
munity, those in minority communities, women-owned small busi-
nesses, that traditionally had a more difficult time in accessing
these tools, and as Senator Inhofe pointed out, looking at ways that
we can get into the community in a more effective way to get that
information out.
And I know that President Biden has talked about the commu-
nity navigators. We have the resource partners under the SBA that
all need to be reinforced. I was pleased that this year, in this past
year, in Maryland, we were able to go from one Women’s Business
Center to three Women’s Business Centers. That is going to help
a great deal in reaching demographics that need help in accessing
the tools that are available. So we want to make sure that we pro-
vide that type of assistance.
The bottom line is working together we think we can really help
the small business community, and that is why it is so important
that we share information and we work together.
I have been informed that Senator Duckworth offers her apolo-
gies. The video is not working on her computer, and therefore she
will not be able to ask questions in person at this year, and can
certainly take advantage of the questions for the record.
I have been told that Senator Rosen is likely to join us very
shortly, so we are going to stay, if you don’t mind, in a brief recess,
to see if Senator Rosen can be here. We will hold this hearing open
for ten minutes to see if Senator Rosen can come by to ask ques-
tions. If you don’t mind, we will just take a brief recess.
Ms. GUZMAN. That would be fine. That would be fine. Thank you
so much.
[Recess.]
Chairman CARDIN. The Small Business Entrepreneurship Com-
mittee will resume its session, and at this time I would recognize
Senator Rosen by WebEx.
Senator ROSEN. I was just questioning in another committee so
I am trying to juggle that around. Mrs. Guzman, I just want to
thank you for being here today, and your commitment to serving
our Nation. We really had a productive phone call, a productive
meeting, just last week, and I look forward to your plans to revive
our Nation’s economy, to create those jobs, and really just keep our
Nation’s small businesses afloat. You know, amidst a global pan-
demic it has really devastated our small business community, not
just in Nevada but across this Nation, and I urge this Committee
to have a swift confirmation of Mrs. Guzman so we can let her get
immediately to the hard work of bringing our businesses back.
But I want to talk about something really important to Nevada,
and, of course, so many other states in the Nation, but it is access
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to PPP loans for gaining small businesses. Last year, when the
SBA rolled out the Paycheck Protection Program that Congress cre-
ated, small business that earned more than one-third of their reve-
nues in legal gaming, operations were excluded from the program.
This had the potential to starve Nevada’s small businesses of crit-
ical support when they needed it most.
As you know, not all casinos are big businesses. Many, including
some of our hotel casinos, are small businesses, and they employ
large numbers of workers who make up the backbone of Nevada’s
economy. Moreover, while people assume that gaming only means
casinos, in our state there is gaming equipment inside restaurants,
grocery stores, convenience stores, gas stations, and the like. Bans
on loans to gaming in businesses also affects our gaming equip-
ment manufacturers in Nevada as well.
But thankfully, Senator Cortez Masto and I, along with the
House delegation, were able to convince the SBA, under the last
administration, to abandon this misguided policy, and the agency’s
guidance for the next round of PPP also allows gaming businesses
to access relief.
So, Mrs. Guzman, given the importance of gaming to Nevada’s
economic recovery, will you commit to working with me to be sure
that the legal gaming small businesses continue to have access to
PPP, SBA loans, and the like, as they try to stay afloat and revive
themselves as we reopen our economy?
Chairman CARDIN. I am not sure your mic is on.
Ms. GUZMAN. Apologize. My mic was off. Thank you so much,
Senator. I appreciated meeting with you and I enjoyed the con-
versation. I am very happy to commit to ensuring that the program
is as accessible as possible to all of our small businesses who qual-
ify, and I look forward to partnering with you. I have noted the
concern and I will be sure to follow up with your staff and coordi-
nate anything in the future that you have concerns about specific
to those types of businesses.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you. I appreciate it. I also want to talk
about lifting the caps on EIDL loans and grants. You know, my of-
fice helped directly nearly 1,200 Nevada small businesses with
their COVID relief programs, and the complaint that we most fre-
quently heard about was the SBA’s $1,000-per-employee cap on the
EIDL advance grants, and the $150,000 cap on the EIDL loans.
These borrowing caps were not Congress’ intent when we allocated
these funds, and some of our businesses have not been able to sur-
vive because these caps were inadequate.
Last year, I introduced, with bipartisan legislation, EIDL For
Small Business Act that eliminates the borrowing cap on the EIDL
loans and the EIDL grants, and it replenished the funding for the
EIDL program.
And so can you commit this session to work with us to fully re-
move the caps on EIDL loans and grants, and invest the new dol-
lars that are needed, 99 percent of businesses in Nevada, small
businesses, that are needed to give that support that our busi-
nesses so desperately need?
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I heard similar concerns
from small businesses in California, and if confirmed I look forward
to diving in quickly into all the CARES Act support to make sure
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that we are reaching the businesses that need it, at the levels the
Congress has allowed. And so I would look forward to partnering
with you and your staff on ensuring that that happens.
Senator ROSEN. I know I just have a few seconds left, so we do
have legal state cannabis businesses, and so I am just going to—
we can speak about this offline and I will submit some questions.
But will you work with our office to commit to consider providing
legally operating cannabis small businesses equal access to SBA re-
sources, the loans, counseling, mentoring, and training?
Ms. GUZMAN. I commit to further understanding those rules and
regulations and seeing how we can partner with your office to serve
all the small businesses who are in need.
Senator ROSEN. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you again,
Mr. Chairman.
Chairman CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
That will complete our hearing, but once again, let me just re-
mind the members that we will keep the record open until 5 p.m.
tomorrow, Friday—5 p.m. Friday, excuse me—for questions for the
record, and would encourage Ms. Guzman, if you would respond to
those questions as quickly as possible so that we can work to
schedule Committee action on your nomination as quickly as pos-
sible.
Ms. GUZMAN. Yes, Senator, I will.
Chairman CARDIN. With that the hearing will be adjourned.
Ms. GUZMAN. Thank you so much.
[Whereupon, at 12:34 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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Æ
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File and source
- File
- CHRG-117shrg46625.pdf
- Size
- 18,264,723 bytes
- SHA-256
- 88e2ca173a68057e51220d1f680e2fbcd6634ee196308ea7505ebb03288ce2ba
- Our copy
- CHRG-117shrg46625.pdf
- Original
- www.govinfo.gov