A Review of the SBA’s Grant Programs — Committee on Small Business (May 27, 2021)
Summary
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–016, A Review of the SBA’s Grant Programs, a hearing before the Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and Regulations of the Committee on Small Business, U.S. House of Representatives, on May 27, 2021. Opening statements come from Hon. Dean Phillips and Hon. Beth Van Duyne. The witnesses are Cheetie Kumar, for The Independent Restaurant Coalition; Esther Baruh, National Association of Theatre Owners; Chris Montana, Du Nord Craft Spirits, for the American Craft Spirits Association; and Mark Maguire, Maguire’s Kitchen & Catering, for the National Restaurant Association. Additional material for the record lists Fiddler on the Roof and National Federation of the Blind.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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- Congressional materials
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- Chrg 117Hhrg44923
Cite this document
“A Review of the SBA’s Grant Programs — Committee on Small Business (May 27, 2021).”
Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/chrg-117hhrg44923/
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A REVIEW OF THE SBA’S GRANT PROGRAMS
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT,
INVESTIGATIONS, AND REGULATIONS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
HEARING HELD
MAY 27, 2021
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–016
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44–923 WASHINGTON : 2021
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
TROY CARTER, Louisiana
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Dean Phillips .................................................................................................. 1
Hon. Beth Van Duyne ............................................................................................. 3
WITNESSES
Ms. Cheetie Kumar, Chef and Owner, Garland, Raleigh, NC, testifying on
behalf of The Independent Restaurant Coalition .............................................. 6
Ms. Esther Baruh, Director of Government Relations, National Association
of Theatre Owners, Washington, DC .................................................................. 8
Mr. Chris Montana, Owner and Chief Executive Officer, Du Nord Craft Spir-
its, Minneapolis, MN, testifying on behalf of the American Craft Spirits
Association ............................................................................................................ 9
Mr. Mark Maguire, Owner, Maguire’s Kitchen & Catering, Dallas, TX, testi-
fying on behalf of the National Restaurant Association ................................... 11
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Ms. Cheetie Kumar, Chef and Owner, Garland, Raleigh, NC, testifying
on behalf of The Independent Restaurant Coalition .................................. 25
Ms. Esther Baruh, Director of Government Relations, National Associa-
tion of Theatre Owners, Washington, DC ................................................... 29
Mr. Chris Montana, Owner and Chief Executive Officer, Du Nord Craft
Spirits, Minneapolis, MN, testifying on behalf of the American Craft
Spirits Association ........................................................................................ 32
Mr. Mark Maguire, Owner, Maguire’s Kitchen & Catering, Dallas, TX,
testifying on behalf of the National Restaurant Association .................... 36
Questions and Answers for the Record:
Questions from Hon. Scott Fitzgerald to Ms. Esther Baruh and Answers
from Esther Baruh ........................................................................................ 41
Additional Material for the Record:
Chocolate Touring, LLC ................................................................................... 43
Fiddler on the Roof ........................................................................................... 45
National Federation of the Blind .................................................................... 47
(III)
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A REVIEW OF THE SBA’S GRANT PROGRAMS
THURSDAY, MAY 27, 2021
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT,
INVESTIGATIONS, AND REGULATIONS,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:01 p.m., via Zoom,
Hon. Dean Phillips [chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Phillips, Craig, Chu, Davids, Van
Duyne, Hagedorn, Meuser, and Donalds.
Chairman PHILLIPS. I want to thank everybody, especially our
witnesses for joining us today for a remote hearing. I want to make
sure to note some important requirements first.
Standing House and Committee rules and practice will continue
to apply during our remote proceedings and all members are re-
minded that they are expected to adhere to these standing rules in-
cluding decorum when they are participating in any remote event.
With that said, technology, of course, requires us to make some
modifications to ensure that members can fully participate in these
proceedings.
House regulations require that members to be visible through a
video connection throughout the proceedings, so please keep your
cameras on. And, if you are not speaking, please keep your micro-
phones off. If you have to participate in another proceeding, please
exit this hearing and log back on later when you are available.
In the event a member encounters technical issues that prevent
you from being recognized for your questioning, I will move to the
next available member of the same party and I will recognize that
member at the next appropriate time slot provided that they have
returned to the proceeding. Should a member’s time be interrupted
by technical issues, I will recognize that member at the next appro-
priate spot for the remainder of their time once those issues have
been resolved. In the event a witness loses connectivity during tes-
timony or questioning, I will preserve their time as staff address
their technical issues. I may need to recess proceedings to provide
for time for the witnesses to reconnect.
And finally, please remember once again to remain mute until
you are recognized to minimize background noise.
In accordance with the rules established under H.Res. 965, staff
have been advised to mute participants only in the event that there
is inadvertent background noise. Should a member wish to be rec-
ognized, they must unmute themselves and seek recognition at the
appropriate time.
(1)
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Now that we are done with the fun part of the hearing, I will
move on to my opening statement.
COVID-19 sparked a once in a lifetime, at least we hope, crisis
for America and our small businesses. As cases rose, COVID forced
small firms all across the country to shut their doors to protect
their customers and employees and to slow the spread of the virus.
By April 2020, the number of active small business owners had
dropped by 22 percent, almost a quarter of our nation’s small busi-
nesses, the most significant drop on record in our nation’s entire
history. Since the dire situation emerged, members of the Com-
mittee have worked tirelessly in a bipartisan fashion to get small
businesses the relief that they need to stay afloat, to keep the
lights on.
In March of 2020, Congress created the PPP program, the Pay-
check Protection Program and the COVID EIDL program, Eco-
nomic Injury Disaster Loan Program, to provide small businesses
with forgivable or low-interest loans to help them make it through
the pandemic. But for many small business owners, too many small
business owners, including many in the district that I represent
and have spoken with on many occasions, taking on additional debt
was not feasible during these uncertain times. This was especially
true of businesses in the entertainment and hospital sectors that
had their entire business model disrupted by the pandemic.
Recognizing the need for alternative relief options, Congress and
this very Committee have worked to provide direct economic relief
to small firms that cannot afford to weigh down their balance
sheets with additional debt.
For today’s hearing, I would like to focus on two major program
that Congress designed to reach the hardest hit small businesses
in some of the most impacted sectors of the economy. The Shut-
tered Venue Operators Grant Program (SVOG) and the Restaurant
Revitalization Fund (RRF) are two programs that launched in 2021
and will deliver up to $50 billion in relief to small firms. This has
been a monumental task by any measure for the SBA, and I would
like to impress upon all of us today that Congress and the SBA
have worked hard to ensure that struggling small businesses do
have access to this unprecedented direct financial support. I hope
that by taking a closer look at these programs we can gain a better
understanding of the challenges that federal grant programs face,
as well as the important relief that the programs are providing to
struggling small business owners across the country.
The SVOG provided the SBA with $15 billion in grants to var-
ious entities across the hard-hit events industry that could dem-
onstrate revenue loss. The implementation of SVOG was no small
task for SBA, of course, and as we examine the program, it is es-
sential to consider the complexity in launching a brand new federal
grant program of that size and magnitude and that expeditiously.
Unlike other programs, SVOG required that the SBA create an ef-
fective program for both for-profit and nonprofit eligible entities
that often have different revenue generation and accounting sys-
tems.
So I do hope today’s hearing allows us to explore benefits that
businesses are hoping to receive from the SVOG and find ways to
help the SBA administer the program effectively, efficiently, and
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get relief to struggling entities expeditiously. As COVID continues
to wreak havoc on the dining and hospitality sectors, earlier this
year in particular, Congress stepped in and delivered much-needed
relief through the Restaurant Revitalization fund. The RRF pro-
vided almost $30 billion, $28.6 billion, to the SBA for grants to
qualifying food and beverage establishments. The program also
took steps to ensure that funds reached the most vulnerable small
businesses in the country, including instituting a $5 billion set-
aside for small firms with less than $5,000 in gross receipts and
an initial 21-day prioritization period for women, veteran, and un-
derserved small businesses. These measures proved to be an effec-
tive way at getting aid to small businesses that have been ne-
glected during previous relief efforts and have borne the brunt of
the pandemic. As of May 20th of this year, over half of all appli-
cants of RRF were women, veterans, and socially and economically
disadvantaged business owners.
On May 18th, SBA announced that RRF had distributed $6 bil-
lion to nearly 38,000 applicants. At the same time, they reported
that RRF received 303,000 applications with a total demand of
more than $69 billion. So without additional funding for this pro-
gram, eligible entities requesting billions of dollars in need for re-
lief are going to go unfulfilled. It is those that we have in mind
today.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, members of this Committee
have worked to improve relief programs to meet the needs of small
businesses and get relief to those who need it the most. So I hope
today’s hearing allows us to explore these programs’ challenges and
triumphs and steps that this Committee can take to improve both.
With that, I will now yield to our Ranking Member for her open-
ing statement. So Ms. Van Duyne?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Chairman Phillips.
Good afternoon. Thank you all for taking the time to be with us
to discuss the SBA’s grant programs, specifically the Shuttered
Venue Operators Grant and the Restaurant Revitalization Fund
Programs. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts as to how
we can improve both of these programs.
In the early days of 2020, as the COVID-19 pandemic took hold
of the American economy, Congress and the Trump administration
worked collaboratively and expediently to establish the Paycheck
Protection Program (PPP) and fortify the Economic Injury Disaster
Loan Program (EIDL). Within weeks, much needed funds were
being delivered to our nation’s smallest employers to keep their
employees on the payroll, pay their mortgage, and keep their lights
on. And through no fault of their own, small businesses owners’
livelihoods were destroyed and the businesses they had invested
their entire life towards were forced to shut. The state and local
public health mandates necessitated the swift actions taken by
Congress and the Trump administration to keep our smallest em-
ployers alive.
At the end of 2020, Congress passed, and President Trump
signed the Consolidated Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2021.
Included in this legislation was the SVOG program, which was de-
signed to provide grants to small businesses that rely on mass
gatherings and thus experienced severe hardships during COVID-
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19. Unfortunately, the Biden administration waited until early
April to implement this program and even worse, when it did
launch, the SBA portal crashed, forcing the SVOG program to
cease operations the very same day it opened on April 8th. The
SBA has since reopened the program, but much needed funding
has yet to reach these hard-hit businesses.
Earlier this year, Congress passed the so-called American Recov-
ery Plan Act of 2021, and due to the amount of unnecessary spend-
ing and bitter partisanship included in this legislation, it was
forced through Congress using the budget reconciliation process
which required a simple majority in both chambers and very little
collaboration.
There is one thing the plan got right. It created the RRF, which
is a lifeline to struggling restaurants across the nation. Unfortu-
nately, while the program had Republican support, it was crafted
with zero Republican input. And in fact, during the Small Business
Committee markup of the reconciliation package, Republican Com-
mittee members offered several amendments, including ones that
would have doubled funding for the RRF and made it more acces-
sible to all small restaurants, we were unable to garner a single
Democratic vote. Not a single one.
And why is this important? The RRF is now out of money and
only certain small businesses have been able to apply for it success-
fully. We will hear from one of my constituents on the panel who
has done everything right from the beginning, utilizing existing
programs to keep his employees on the payrolls, bills paid, and
lights on. He submitted his application to the RRF as soon as pos-
sible, working through the process exactly as it was designed. It
has been weeks and he still has not heard back. And this is unac-
ceptable.
As we move forward, we absolutely must find these chokepoints
that are leaving our small businesses twisting in the wind. They
deserve better. They deserve bipartisan solutions that will work be-
cause they did during the early days of the pandemic. And finally,
we must ensure that we utilize these dollars, taxpayer dollars, not
free money, as efficiently as possible.
Vigorous oversight of these programs by our Subcommittee is
critical as we move forward. I was incredibly proud to take a step
in that right direction this week by partnering with Chairman
Phillips and six other members of the Small Business Committee
to introduce the Restaurant Recovery Fairness Act, which will pro-
vide the vital oversight we are talking about for the Restaurant Re-
vitalization Fund. I look forward to more collaborative oversight ac-
tions by this Committee as we continue to stamp out fraud and
abuse and make sure our funds are going where they are needed
the most. I look forward to more collaborative oversight as we
stamp out fraud and abuse and make sure that our resources are
going to small employers that need it the most. And again, thank
you all for being with us. I look forward to today’s discussion and
I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Van Duyne.
And now I will just take a moment to explain how the hearing
will proceed.
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Each witness is going to have 5 minutes to provide a statement,
and each Committee member will have 5 minutes for questions.
Please ensure that your microphone is on once again when you
begin speaking and that you return to mute when you are finished.
With that, I would like to introduce our witnesses. Starting with
our first, Ms. Cheetie Kumar, the chef and owner of Garland, a res-
taurant in Raleigh, North Carolina. Ms. Kumar is a self-taught
cook who studied recipes while perusing a career as a musician. In
addition to Garland, Ms. Kumar is also the owner of the music
venue, King’s, and the cocktail lounge, Neptune’s Parlour. She has
been nominated for the James Beard Award, Best Chef of the
Southeast from 2017 to 2020, and was a finalist in 2020. So we
welcome you, Ms. Kumar.
Our second witness is Ms. Esther Baruh, the director of Govern-
ment Relations for the National Association of Theater Owners. In
this capacity, she works with theater owners and operators and di-
rects federal and state policy strategy. Ms. Baruh has been working
closely with theater owners and public health officials in address-
ing theater industry’s response to the pandemic. And we thank you
for joining us, Ms. Baruh.
Our third witness, a man after my own heart who has got the
best background I think in Zoom history, and a Minnesota Gopher
banner behind him is Chris Montana, the owner and CEO of Du
Nord Craft Spirits, located in my district, Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Mr. Montana started the Du Nord as a family business, bringing
together his experience growing up in Minneapolis with his wife
Chanel’s rural upbringing on a cold spring Minnesota farm. Du
Nord is committed to diversifying the craft alcohol community and
actively recruits underrepresented people to join the Du Nord fam-
ily. I appreciate you joining us, Chris, and welcome you as well.
With that, I will turn it back over to our Ranking Member, Ms.
Van Duyne, to introduce our final witness.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
Our final witness is Mr. Mark Maguire, owner of three very pop-
ular eateries, including one restaurant and two cafes in the North
Dallas area, two of which are in my district, Texas 24. And I wish
you had a more exciting background there, Mark, but maybe next
time. After starting and managing several successful entertainment
businesses across the country, Mr. Maguire was hired by Walt Dis-
ney World Company to lead the team that launched the Pleasure
Island Entertainment Complex, which included two restaurants.
Several successful restaurant and entertainment endeavors later,
he was ready to strike out on his own, and in 1999, he opened
Maguire’s Regional Cuisine in Dallas. He has been a staple of the
North Dallas community ever since. Mr. Maguire has served on a
number of nonprofit boards, including the North Texas Food Bank
and Hunger Busters. He has been heavily involved in restaurant
advocacy and has served as a director and officer in the Texas Res-
taurant Association for over 20 years, including Dallas president
and Texas president. Today, Mr. Maguire is testifying on behalf of
the National Restaurant Association. Mr. Maguire, we welcome
your participation at today’s hearing.
Mr. MAGUIRE. Thank you.
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Chairman PHILLIPS. All right. And with that we will begin to-
day’s hearing by recognizing Ms. Kumar for 5 minutes for your
statement.
STATEMENTS OF CHEETIE KUMAR, CHEF AND OWNER, GAR-
LAND; ESTHER BARUH, DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT RELA-
TIONS, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF THEATRE OWNERS;
CHRIS MONTANA, OWNER AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER,
DU NORD CRAFT SPIRITS; MARK MAGUIRE, OWNER,
MAGUIRE’S KITCHEN & CATERING
STATEMENT OF CHEETIE KUMAR
Ms. KUMAR. Chairman Phillips, Ranking Member Van Duyne,
and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to
talk about the successful launch of the Restaurant Revitalization
Fund and the need independent restaurants still have for help.
Let me start by thanking Chairman Phillips and Chair
Velázquez for all the support you have shown independent res-
taurants throughout this pandemic.
I am the chef and co-owner of Garland in Raleigh, North Caro-
lina, and in the same building as our restaurant is our music venue
and basement cocktail bar.
I immigrated from India to the Bronx at the age of 8 and eventu-
ally settled in the South, here in Raleigh, to play music and open
my restaurant. My story is not very different from so many others
in the restaurant industry. Women, minorities, single parents, vet-
erans, and so many others get their start in restaurants, build
their lives in restaurants and make a career working in res-
taurants. Frankly, restaurants represent America more than any
other industry.
Last March, I joined the then newly formed Independent Res-
taurant Coalition, which is a group of chefs and independent res-
taurant owners who have built a nationwide, grassroots movement
to secure vital protections for the nation’s half a million inde-
pendent restaurants and the more than 11 million restaurant and
bar workers impacted by the coronavirus pandemic. Since then, we
have advocated for a standalone restaurant grant program to help
recover some of the estimate $280 billion in losses sustained by our
industry because of the pandemic.
We want to help save our employees and their families, to help
make our suppliers and landlords whole, and most of all to save
restaurants. I am proud that our small restaurant survived this far
in the pandemic. We have cut, crimped, pivoted, closed, opened,
closed again, opened again, pivoted again, done takeout, served an
outdoor sidewalk patio through the winter, and a myriad of other
things to get this far.
Both rounds of the Paycheck Protection Program funding helped
us to get through. We were closed for weeks last spring and did not
do hot takeout through the summer, but instead pivoted to launch
a prepared meal program so that we could make sure my staff was
able to work safely. Frankly, as terrified as I was for my business,
I value people and their health over commerce. We have been able
to stay open and provide more jobs because of the help we received.
Without that help, Garland, Neptune’s Parlour, and King’s would
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be lost to the history of Raleigh. But Congress and the administra-
tion threw us a lifeline and I am here to ask that you do the same
for every independent restaurant in America to ensure we do not
have an extinction event.
We are not out of the woods yet. Fifteen months of losses will not
be recouped by a few weeks of full indoor dining capacity. For res-
taurants like ours, this pandemic is not over by a longshot. The
RRF experience was really smooth for me. I applied on the first day
and got word about our acceptance a couple of weeks later. I was
lucky most of my financials were straightforward and the guidance
was spot on for me. I know others have not been as lucky, but I
am also happy to report that the SBA has been working hard to
treat everyone fairly and equitably during this process.
The SBA closed the RRF application portal after 3 weeks of over-
whelming demand. As of this week, over 370,000 restaurants and
bars have applied, requesting over $79 billion in funds. Two hun-
dred eight thousand of those applicants were women, veterans, and
socially and economically disadvantaged individuals.
I am proud to be one of the first recipients of the RRF grant. I
applied at 11:30 a.m. before the portal was even supposed to be
open. I just checked and got my application in, but I had spent
days before that preparing. A lot of people in my position are hav-
ing something like grantee guilt. We feel really bad for having got-
ten a grant when so many others are still facing a terrifying and
uncertain future without this grant.
A friend of mine told me not to feel guilty but to make my busi-
ness healthy and then work tirelessly to ask Congress for more
money for this program, so that is exactly what I intend to do. I
believe that for every restaurant in the country to be made whole,
the program could need as much as $140 billion more. This is not
reflective in the statistic because not every restaurant knows about
the program and not everyone applied knowing that $28.6 billion
would not be enough, so they simply gave up on this lifeline.
Congressman Blumenauer, Congressman Fitzpatrick, Senator
Sinema, and Senator Wicker plan to introduce a bill soon to put
more money into the RRF. The restaurant community could not be
more thankful for these four heroes for standing up in our very
darkest days.
In closing, I want to emphasize one last, crucial point. I sit here
today, not on behalf of Garland, but to stand for the 11 million res-
taurant workers and 500,000 independent restaurants to say both
thank you and more help is needed. Every single one of you has
a struggling restaurant in their districts and every single one of
you will have some restaurants that do not get an RRF grant for
which they applied. Please help all restaurants look like post-pan-
demic success like Garland, knock on wood, and please add more
money to the RRF.
Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Kumar.
And Ms. Baruh, now you are recognized for 5 minutes for your
opening statement.
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STATEMENT OF ESTHER BARUH
Ms. BARUH. Thank you. My name is Esther Baruh, and I am
here on behalf of the National Association of Theater Owners rep-
resenting movie theaters operating 90 percent of the movie screens
across the United States.
Thank you Chairman Phillips, Ranking Member Van Duyne, and
members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today
regarding the Shuttered Venue Operators Grant program, or
SVOG. This program is a critical lifeline for movie theaters, live
music venues, and arts organizations that were completely shut-
tered by the pandemic and are only now beginning to rebuild to-
ward recovery.
I would like to open by thanking the many members of Congress,
their staff, and the administration who were and are instrumental
in standing up this program. We were thrilled to hear SBA Admin-
istrator Guzman say yesterday that SVOG have begun to go out.
Our organization has not received any reports from our members
about notification of grant awards but we hope they will be immi-
nent.
A word about why movie theaters are so important to our culture
and economy. Cinemas employ over 153,000 individuals nationwide
in support and boost millions of additional jobs in surrounding re-
tail and restaurants and the cinema supply chain. Ninety-six per-
cent of theater operators are small businesses. Moviegoing is one
of the most affordable out-of-home activities and is especially pop-
ular among minority groups. Theaters were devastated by the pan-
demic. Ninety-six percent of independent theater operators lost
over 70 percent of revenue last year and those losses have contin-
ued into this year. Our industry lost 63 percent of jobs, although
we are hopeful that these jobs will rebound as we continue to re-
open.
We deeply appreciate Congress’s recognition of the difficulties
our industry experienced by including us in the Save Our Stages
Act, now known as the Shuttered Venue Operators Grant Program.
We have every confidence that the SVOG program will help thou-
sands of theater operators and other businesses and organizations
to keep their doors open.
Per the last updates from SBA, the number of grants and the
funding amount requested track almost exactly with what we ex-
pected. In addition to being able to fund initial grants, this also
means that there will be sufficient funding for supplemental grants
as intended in the legislation, which we were also glad to hear the
administrator confirm in her testimony yesterday.
However, the implementation process has not been without some
significant challenges. I refer the Subcommittee to my full testi-
mony for details on that.
Today, I want to focus on two key issues, the first being the op-
portunity to appeal, and the second being the supplemental grants
process. With regard to the opportunity to appeal, as the Chairman
mentioned, the SVOG program is complex and its application is
also complex. It required reams of paperwork to complete. The good
news is that we believe that because of this, the instances of fraud
associated with this program will be extremely low. The number of
supporting documents required for the application should make it
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virtually impossible for a nonqualified entity to apply. This also
means, however, that there are many opportunities to make a mis-
take, especially since the SBA’s guidance changed considerably and
frequently as the program was set to open and changed again even
after thousands of applications were submitted. We are still wait-
ing on clarification of certain outstanding questions that impact
complete and correct applications. But unfortunately, applicants
have no opportunity to cure their applications and very little infor-
mation about what mistakes they may have made.
We strong urge the SBA to allow appeals. If eligible applicants
are denied these grants, they will have no options left, and their
businesses will be forced to close permanently or go bankrupt.
Second to ensuring that all eligible applicants are able to access
initial grants, we also urge the SBA to move expeditiously on the
supplemental grants process. These additional grants were made
available by Congress because entities that experienced more than
70 percent of revenue loss in the first quarter of this year require
additional funding to survive.
We do not have an update from the SBA yet on this process but
the good news is that the application for the initial grant included
all the information necessary to evaluate and process supplemental
grants. So, we hope that as soon as initial grants begin to be dis-
bursed, the SBA will work on supplemental grants.
I am confident that the SVOG program will do a lot of good. We
urge the SBA to provide an opportunity to appeal and to get the
supplemental process going so it is not subject to too much delay.
Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and I welcome
your questions.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Baruch.
And next, Mr. Montana, the next 5 minutes are yours.
STATEMENT OF CHRIS MONTANA
Mr. MONTANA. Mr. Chair and distinguished members of the
Committee, unlike previous testifiers, it may be less obvious why
a distiller would be here speaking to you from my distillery dis-
cussing these programs. And it is because many distilleries, mine
included, owe their continued existence to the PPP, EIDL, and the
RRF programs.
In early March of 2020, I had a conversation with my cocktail
room staff and they told me that they did not feel safe operating
the cocktail room during COVID. I shut the cocktail room that
night. More than 60 percent of Du Nord’s revenue came from the
cocktail room and closing it likely meant the end of the business.
To compound matters, 2 days later the second blow came as all
bars and restaurants closed. Our biggest customers are bars and
restaurants, and their closure meant a significant blow to our small
wholesale business. We are a breakeven company. To losing 60 to
80 percent of our business was a death sentence. So we decided to
go down swinging. We had alcohol, and that is what was needed
to make hand sanitizer, so we, like hundreds of other small distill-
eries in cities and communities across the country, pivoted to mak-
ing hand sanitizer. Our initial batch was donated to police, letter
carriers, Meals on Wheels, homeless shelters, and congregate care
facilities. Later, we would find a market for the sanitizer and those
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sales helped us stay afloat and enabled us to continue donating
sanitizer to those who needed it most.
I am proud to say that our sanitizer was distributed to nearly
every childcare center in the state of Minnesota at no cost to them.
And through our partnership with other Twin Cities distilleries, we
were able to donate tens of thousands of gallons of sanitizer to
those who needed it most.
While this story is, I believe, extraordinary, it could have been
told by many other distilleries across the country because they, too,
responded when their community needed them and converted their
stills and tanks to sanitizer production. They, too, are of their com-
munity and respond when their community needs them.
Of the hundreds of distilleries nationwide that pivoted to sani-
tizer production, I do not know of a single one that did not donate
substantial amounts. And after the events of 2020, I have never
been prouder to call myself a distiller, and that is why it is so hum-
bling to be given the honor to represent them here today.
It is an honor that I previously held as the president of the
American Craft Beers Association, and in that role I had an oppor-
tunity to learn from hundreds of distilleries across the country
about the challenges they faced. Perhaps most enlightening was
learning that like me, most of them relied on their cocktail rooms
to survive.
The lifeblood of the American micro distillery has for many years
been the cocktail room. It is a place where people can come and
gather and buy our products that we make right there on site, and
it is often our only opportunity to make a sale directly to our con-
sumer. Unlike most businesses, we are not typically allowed to sell
directly to our consumer. We are required by law to sell to a dis-
tribution company, that then sells to a retail company, that then
sells to a retail company, that then sells to the consumer. In fact,
only a fraction of the price that you pay on the shelf makes it back
to the distiller.
So when these cocktails rooms had to close because they, like
other restaurant and bars represented a substantial and unjustifi-
able risk of community spread of COVID-19, the industry took a
body blow that I was not sure it could recover from.
As is often the story with major disasters, big business is usually
able to bounce back. They are well insured, well capitalized, their
pockets run deep. But we do not have those deep pockets. So when
a disaster strikes small businesses, we do not usually come back,
and we did lose distilleries, but not as many as I would have
thought in those moments in March. And it is because those busi-
nesses, like my business, were able to avail themselves of programs
specifically designed to keep them afloat.
We would not have made it to the point where we could make
hand sanitizer without the infusion of capital we received by the
Payroll Protection Program. When those sales dried up in the ab-
sence of more than 70 percent of our business, the second Payroll
Protection Program, the EIDL loan and the Restaurant Revitaliza-
tion Fund kept us going. And now as things begin to open up, the
future is starting to look brighter. But at the time when the out-
look was bleakest, our government gave us a hand much in the
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way that we gave our communities a hand when we switched to
sanitizer production.
If nothing else I say today sticks with this Committee, I hope
that it will be this one thing. On behalf of the micro distilleries
across the country, thank you for stepping up for us. When we
stepped up for our communities, we did not do it because we want-
ed a handshake or a pat on the back or a cookie, we did it because
that is what you do. You use the resources that you have to do
what you can to help the people who need helping. And I am proud
to say that that is what my government did, too. The fact that my
business has survived to reach today is traceable directly back to
the PPP, EIDL, and Restaurant Revitalization programs, and I
know there are many other micro distilleries across the nation who
would say the same.
So thank you for your time and for the honor of addressing this
Committee.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Montana. I think I speak
for everybody when I say we would trade a cookie for a martini.
With that, Mr. Maguire, the next 5 minutes are yours.
STATEMENT OF MARK MAGUIRE
Mr. MAGUIRE. Thank you, Chairman Phillips, and Ranking
Member Van Duyne, and the other members of the Subcommittee.
My name is Mark Maguire, and I am the founder, co-owner, and
managing partner of Maguire Restaurant Holdings and CORE F&B
in Dallas. We operate Maguire’s Kitchen and Catering, a fine din-
ing restaurant that opened in North Dallas in 1999, as well as two
Gather Coffee Cafe locations, both of which are located in Ranking
Member Van Duyne’s district. Thank you for allowing me to testify
today on behalf of my business, the National Restaurant Associa-
tion, and the Texas Restaurant Association.
I would also like to thank the other witnesses who are testifying
today as well. Your stories are compelling and the heartache is fa-
miliar. Each of our businesses is unique and I know we have all
struggled mightily and are anxious to have the opportunity to re-
build.
Like so many restaurants across the U.S., my businesses were
severely impacted by COVID-19. Even in Texas where now we are
allowed to operate at 100 percent and consumer demand is getting
stronger by the day, we are far from normal. Ms. Kumar mentioned
pivoting and other witnesses have mentioned pivoting. I am past
the pivoting now and I am into full pirouettes. We are spinning
like a top on a daily basis trying to deal with these new obstacles
that are coming our way. Labor shortages, product costs, increases
in available, supply chain chaos. My example, since January of this
year, in less than 5 months, we have had 40 to 50 percent in-
creases on our proteins, cooking oils are up over 50 percent, paper
goods and to-go supplies up to 70 percent increases.
What does this do to us? Well, as mentioned, we are spinning
like a top trying to keep up with it. I will give you an example.
During the 5 years prior to the pandemic, my restaurant in North
Dallas had one menu price increase in those 5 years. Since March
20th of this year, we have had to increase our menu prices twice
in 5 months. And that is not because we are finding a way to make
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a profit. We are just trying to find a way to keep our heads above
the water. We have not even come close to scratching out a profit-
able month since before this all began.
Sadly, I know I am not alone in this experience. Collectively, as
mentioned, the restaurant industry has lost $290 billion in revenue
during this pandemic. The relief programs that Congress has pro-
vided have been a lifeline to my business and to many others. In
fact, one of my restaurants was less than 30 days from total shut-
down when we received our second PPP. So thank you very much.
And, the PPP worked exactly as Congress and SBA had intended.
It provided immediate relief that allowed us to keep our people
working and the lights on.
But the PPP was always intended to provide short-term assist-
ance. Nobody could possibly have seen how long this pandemic ef-
fect would last and how deeply it would cut into the American
economy. But now my business and many other restaurants need
relief that fits a pandemic that has created waves of challenges for
15 months and counting.
We all hope that the Restaurant Revitalization Fund can be that
solution. I believe it still can if it is funded to provide the support
for which it was created and intended for everyone who is in need.
Last night we learned that the SBA has received applications for
about $75 billion in grants from a fund with $28.6 billion. That is
easy math, $46 billion deficit. Unfortunately, my businesses are
likely to fall within this deficit gap. Even though Maguire’s has had
an incredibly difficult year, we did not qualify for the RRF because
of our PPP proceeds. My two cafes do qualify but they do not meet
any of the priority classifications. So without additional funding,
the RRF assistance is unlikely to come my way.
I know there is a bipartisan commitment to the RRF within Con-
gress, so I am hopeful the funding deficit and eligibility concerns
can be remedied. Our flagship Maguire’s Kitchen has seen numbers
increase every week but we are still digging out from a deep deficit.
And with so much chaos in the supply chain and instability in the
labor market, we are counting on the RRF to provide some runway
to allow us to work through this new minefield and get to a point
where we can actually manage and plan proactively to rehire and
rebuild. If my RRF is funded, for example, for my cafes, I will be
able to reopen the one cafe that has been closed since October and
bring back as many as 14 to 16 Texans into the workforce.
Finally, I will just add that restaurants are more than a busi-
ness. It is true we employ a lot of people and that is important to
our economy. But it is also true that we play an important role in
our communities. Just consider all of the interactions you have had
at restaurants and venues with business associates, friends, and
family over the years. Can you imagine life without that?
A sincere thanks to this Committee, the SBA, and other mem-
bers of Congress who have worked to continue with bipartisan
focus to provide programs that have been immeasurably helpful to
my businesses, as well as many others across the country. I appre-
ciate your leadership and ongoing support.
Thank you so much for allowing me to testify. I am happy to an-
swer any questions.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Maguire.
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And to all of our witnesses, I just want to say, too, to the two
of you who are in the restaurant business, as the owner of three
coffee shops in Minneapolis who did not solicit or accept PPP
money, I can empathize, deeply empathize with the struggles you
are facing. I know them firsthand and rest assured, my Committee
joins me in trying to assist all of you.
I will start the questioning with myself for 5 minutes and recog-
nize myself.
And my first question is to you, Mr. Montana. The Restaurant
Revitalization Fund as we all know had an initial 21-day period,
priority period, for grants to women-owned businesses, veteran-
owned businesses, and other socially and/or economically disadvan-
taged small business concerns. Reports from the SBA indicate that
the program received almost 150,000 applications—147,000 from
these priority groups requesting more than $29 billion in relief
funds. So given the unique challenges facing such communities and
business owners, please share some perspectives with the Com-
mittee about why you believe that priority period was an important
part of this grant program.
Mr. MONTANA. Thank you for the question. I would first go
back to our experience with the PPP and the experience that I
know is shared from a number of my colleagues. We were not able
to get the PPP the first time that we attempted, and we did not
exactly know why. We would later find out that you needed to have
some deeper rooted connections and longer running established re-
lationships with banks. And that is not the case for a number of
particularly minority-owned businesses, and myself included. And
so I think that instead of having history repeat itself, it was impor-
tant to make sure that this fund got that piece right. And so I do
think it made sense. I know that it has helped us significantly.
Again, I would not be standing here, this place would not be open
but for those funds. And I think that the real challenge here is not
so much to focus on the fact that instead of being left out again,
this population did get a chance, a fair chance at those funds. I
think instead the focus should be on how can we make sure that
everyone now gets that same access. And so I would hope, the
funds have helped me in such a way, and I am fortunate I received
them. I would hope that everyone else gets the same opportunity.
And so I really do help that this Committee and this Congress
finds a way to fully fund the program.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Montana.
Ms. Baruh, creating and standing up multi-billion dollar pro-
grams such as this one is no small task. Our agencies were ill-pre-
pared, poorly staff, and resourced to do so, of course, but the SBA
has worked hard to build an online application portal as you know
and worked with the private sector to manage the tools and tech-
nology to make the application process at least reasonably success-
ful. The SBA also created education and outreach materials as we
all know, worked with resource partners and engaged with stake-
holders to ensure that eligible entities were aware of the program
requirements and were prepared to apply for the program.
So perhaps you could share with the Committee about how your
engagement with the SBA during the process has gone and have
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they been forthcoming in your estimation with information, up-
dates, and support? We welcome your perspective.
Ms. BARUH. Congressman, thank you so much for the question,
and for acknowledging that, yes, SVOG has been a complex pro-
gram to stand up and we know that many people at the SBA have
been working hard.
You know, the SBA was very forthright with stakeholders early
on in the process that they wanted our feedback. And we worked
really hard to provide that feedback. As they issued frequently
asked questions every week, we responded with updates, questions
about the questions, feedback that we were getting from our mem-
bers in the field. So we tried to be a resource to the SBA. As you
had mentioned, there are a lot of entities that qualify for this pro-
gram and we are all a little bit different and our requirements are
all a little bit different. So I know that we at NATO and the other
stakeholder groups all tried to be resources to SBA, provide them
with as much information as we could about the specific intricacies
of our industries and how the program should be stood up correctly
so that as many eligible entities as possible could access it.
The SBA has held a number of stakeholder meetings since April
8th and onward, and we would just urge the SBA to keep main-
taining those open lines of communication, to maintain two-way
communication with the stakeholders. Let us continue to be a re-
source to them. When we report questions from the field or ambi-
guities or things that have come up, to continue to engage with us
directly so that we can make sure that our members have correct
and complete applications and get access to this funding.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Baruh.
It looks like my time is winding down so with that I will yield
to Ms. Van Duyne, who is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Chairman Phillips.
Mr. Maguire, in your written testimony, you talked about the ad-
ditional rate of inflation on your business. You talked about the
poultry increases by 40 percent, meat over 30 percent increase,
cooking oils at 50 percent increase. In addition to these inflationary
pressures, do you see anything coming out of Washington that
could further pump the brakes on your business, say in the tax or
regulatory realm?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Well, that is a pretty broad based question, and
the answer to it I will give you is broad based as well. Now is not
the time for anything coming out of Washington to provide any
kind of a negative impact on our P&Ls and taxes are included. Any
regulatory demands or actions that come from D.C. right now that
in any way put a financial or operational or regulatory burden on
our businesses, now is not the time for that.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Okay. Earlier this week, the Chairman of this
Subcommittee, Dean Phillips and I introduced the bipartisan Res-
taurant Recovery Fairness Act to ensure that only proper entities
receive funding under the multi billion dollar program. Safe-
guarding American taxpayer dollars will remain a high priority for
me. It was great to see in your testimony that you mentioned pro-
gram integrity. Would you agree that a balanced approach on over-
sight that does not create burdens as you were mentioning earlier,
or rather safeguards that oversee the program would be beneficial?
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Mr. MAGUIRE. Absolutely. I think that integrity in the program
is obviously something that is extremely important, and I would
fully support that. My experience with the PPP and the RRF has
been pretty positive from the standpoint that I am qualified to com-
ment on how to establish integrity in developing these programs.
But certainly, the application process and the documentation that
has been required along with the required documentation for for-
giveness has been substantial and very thorough. And I feel pretty
good about the way these programs have been set up and the integ-
rity that has been established to ensure that they are properly fol-
lowed.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. I appreciate that.
In listening to your testimony and from talking to business own-
ers just across this district, it is clear that the enhanced unemploy-
ment benefits have had very large negative impacts and effect on
small employers’ ability to hire staff. In fact, yesterday, I called one
of our local barbeque places that I have been to a number of times
over several decades and they actually had a voice greeting that
said they were closed due to a national labor shortage.
Can you speak to what you are seeing in the workforce? I cannot
go to any restaurant, honestly, that is open fully because they do
not have the staff. What are you seeing?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Well, we are no different. We are in the same
boat. We are lucky in Texas that we have been open 100 percent
and we have seen a strong return in consumer demand. And there
have been nights that our restaurants have had to go on waits.
And they have gone on waits with empty tables. And the reason
they have gone on waits with empty tables is not because of social
distancing requirements. It is because we do not have the staff to
service them. That is definitely a knife in the back considering
what we are trying to climb our way out of. And the labor issue
is real. It is real for many reasons. One is the way the unemploy-
ment benefits have been structured, but there are a lot of other fac-
tors that are involved that are making it challenging to get employ-
ees back into our business. We lost a lot of people out of our indus-
try to other industries during this crisis because we could not pro-
vide the jobs and there were other industries that were thriving
during the pandemic that they moved into. And so now we have got
to try to find a way to get them back into our business and we are
doing that by creating opportunities for high wages and for flexible
schedules and for great work cultures. And that is on us to provide
to entice those people back to our industry.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. I appreciate that.
I have got time for just one more quick question.
What has your experience been with the RFF thus far? And can
you compare your experience with the Restaurant Revitalization
Fund to your experience with PPP?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Well, my experience has been vastly different.
The PPP, while it was new to everybody the first time, certainly,
by the second time everybody had a pretty good understanding of
the process and the documentation that was involved. And the por-
tals that I applied through were very communicative in regards to
letting me know where in the process my application stood. The
RRF was much more difficult. I think the information that was put
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out as far as how to complete the application, what documentation
was necessary was pretty confusing to me until the National Res-
taurant Association produced a document that kind of walked us
through step by step. So we got through the application process but
now my application was submitted on May 4th and it has been sit-
ting in an under review status for the last 22 days, 23 days. And
I have not been able to get any kind of idea or communication from
anybody as to the status of that application, although I do know
that because I do not fit any of the priority classifications, it is very
unlikely that I will see any money unless this thing is funded.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Your time is expired. Thank you, Ranking
Member Van Duyne.
And now we will turn to the gentlelady from California, Ms. Chu,
for 5 minutes.
Ms. CHU. Thank you.
Ms. Baruh, movie theaters and live venues were among the first
businesses to close their doors at the start of the pandemic and will
be amongst the last to reopen. That is why I am so concerned about
the SVOG delays, especially as theaters like the ArcLight in Pasa-
dena, which is in my district, have recently closed for good. I know
that our top priority must be getting funds out the door to strug-
gling businesses. But we also have to ensure that the program’s
rules are written in a way that will allow eligible entities to get
through the application process smoothly.
So as a member of the Ways and Means Committee, I am also
concerned about the way the tax structure of these theaters might
impact their eligibility for relief programs. Specifically, I under-
stand that there is a Form 4506-T required by SBA that poses seri-
ous challenges for theater owners with multiple locations. So could
you expand on these concerns and talk about how we can ensure
the application process works for all eligible entities, including the-
aters?
Ms. BARUH. Thank you so much, Congresswoman. And yes, we
were devastated for the loss of the ArcLight Pacific Theaters that
closed because of the circumstances of the pandemic and probably
because some of the SVOG funding, it has not arrived quickly
enough.
With regard to the tax issues that you mentioned and the 4506-
T form, yes, it is a very complex form. This form was required by
the SBA so that the IRS could pull applicant tax returns so that
they could be used to verify applicant identity and revenue
streams. The SBA actually revised the guidance to the 4506-T after
many thousands of people had submitted their applications. And
unfortunately, their guidance is still incomplete. There are entities
that are organized as disregarded entities for the purpose of tax fil-
ing who cannot fill out the 4506-T form per the guidelines of the
SBA. And what this means is if they cannot file the 4506-T, their
application is not complete. They will not be considered for SVOG.
And so what we really need the SBA to do, and we have flagged
this with them, is to put out the full guidance about all the various
tax types that are eligible for this program, that the SBA has made
eligible for this program so that everybody who is eligible can get
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their application in, have it be complete, and get the funding flow-
ing.
So I would be glad to work with you and your team on the spe-
cific tweaks that we need to see in the guidance so that we can get
these correct 4506-Ts in as quickly as possible.
Ms. CHU. Yeah, we would certainly like to work with you on
that.
And also, Ms. Baruh, you mentioned in your testimony that
SVOG applicants will not have the opportunity to appeal if their
application is rejected by SBA even if it is for a reason outside of
their control like these form 4506-T issues that you just talked
about. So as Chair of the Subcommittee in the last Congress, I was
closely monitoring SBA’s response to fraud risks in pandemic pro-
grams and I do appreciate the level of care that they took and that
they are taking to reduce fraud. But we also have to ensure that
eligible small businesses are still able to fully participate in the
program, especially industries that are as hard hit as yours.
So could you elaborate on why you support an appeals process?
Give us an example of why this is needed and discuss how SBA can
implement such a program without increasing fraud risk in it.
Ms. BARUH. Sure. Thank you, Congresswoman. And I just want
to state, we also support the goal to reduce and prevent fraud. It
would be terrible, frankly, if this funding ended up in the hands
of the wrong entities.
We think it is really important to have an appeals process for a
couple of reasons. One is that there were technical issues associ-
ated with the application. And I will give you a couple examples
of that. This sounds small, but if you uploaded a document, you
could not delete it. So the little trashcan icon did not work. So if
you uploaded a document by mistake, you could not delete it and
there were a limited number of slots of documents that you could
upload. So virtually, everything as part of the application required
documentation to prove it. So again, if you could not delete a wrong
document, we do not know that a reviewer is going to understand
that this was just a mistake. So that is from the technical side.
From the policy side, even going into the application, after the
SBA redid all the guidance and reopened the portal, there were
still a bunch of issues that were very ambiguous. Among them, how
you should fill out the date your entity began operations. If you
opened after January 1, 2019, your grant amount might calculate
incorrectly if you did not have the right date in that box. But the
guidance on how to fill it out was very ambiguous. And so I know
that we have members who probably had their applications mis-
calculate their grant amount because of this ambiguity. So given
that we had technical issues and policy issues, all of this is explain-
able. Right? As soon as two people can have a dialogue about it,
you can explain it and understand it and fix it. So we would just
really ask the SBA to provide that opportunity so that these mis-
takes which were just errors that people made because of ambigu-
ities or technical problems could be rectified and they can still get
the grant and again, without in any way infringing on any fraud
issues.
Chairman PHILLIPS. The gentlelady’s time is expired.
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I just ask everybody, Committee members and witnesses to try
to keep track of the time if you might.
With that, I recognize the fellow gentleman from Minnesota, Mr.
Hagedorn for 5 minutes.
Mr. HAGEDORN. Chairman, thank you. I appreciate the oppor-
tunity. Thanks for holding this hearing.
I am going to direct the first part of my remarks to Mr. Maguire
if I could. Yesterday, sir, we were able to discuss these issues with
the SBA Administrator Ms. Guzman, and I talked with her about
the Restaurant Revitalization Fund and how the Democrats with
President Biden and the members of Congress decided to have a
priority group that included every single type of bar and restaurant
owner except people who happened to be White men. And I asked
her also about how if she could assure us that illegal aliens were
not receiving funds through the Restaurant Revitalization Fund be-
fore U.S. citizens. In both cases, first of all, she could not really ex-
plain how it was not discriminatory or racist to exclude White men
from the process, the initial process, which now there is no funding
left for anybody else who was not part of the priority group, and
secondarily, she could not really assure us that illegal aliens were
not receiving these monies before U.S. citizens.
So I am not going to ask you to comment on any of that because
clearly you see where I am coming from. But I will ask you, you
are a business owner. You are a restaurant owner. You understand
all the competitive natures of your business. You have seen what
everyone in the industry has gone through the last year. As a
member of Congress, I think our goal is to make sure everybody
gets treated equally. That we get all businesses, all restaurants
and bars from one side of the coronavirus to the other, and that
I do not think we should be picking winners and losers here. But
as a person in the business, it would be a big competitive advan-
tage for your neighbor who has a similar business to get money
from the government and you to be shut out simply because you
did not fit on their priority list; correct?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Well, I would agree with you from the stand-
point that I am disappointed that it does not look like I am going
to have an opportunity at this time to receive any funding. How-
ever, my take on that is that it has very little to do with how the
program is structured and everything to do with how the program
is funded. There was not enough money to fund all of the priority
classifications alone, so we did not even get through the priority
classifications, whether I fit into them or not. Had I been a White
male veteran, I would have been in that priority classification. Un-
fortunately, I did not have an opportunity to serve my country. But
to me the problem is funding, and it has been funding since day
one. It is something that we have been trying to work through
right from the beginning on this. I think everybody knew that
$28.6 billion, while it is a gigantic number, was not going to even
make a dent in what was needed for this and we clearly saw within
21 days that it is probably going to end up being less than a quar-
ter of what was needed. So hopefully, we can find a way to get back
to the drawing board and find a way to get the funding for every-
body that needs it because whether you are in that priority class
or not, if you need it, you need it. I need it.
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Mr. HAGEDORN. So to reclaim my time. So actually, the pri-
ority list was almost completely funded by [inaudible] dollars. Rep-
resentative Van Duyne, our ranking Republican did mention that
Republicans offered an amendment to put another $20 billion into
the program that was rejected, unfortunately, by the majority.
I also would like to associate my comments with Representative
Van Duyne, who was talking about unemployment compensation
and how it is especially hurting getting albor5 for this sector of the
economy. I talk with business owners, especially restaurant and
bar owners across the district here in Southern Minnesota all the
time and this extra $300 a week federal unemployment compensa-
tion is a deterrent for people to return to work. Representatives
Emmer, Stauber, Fischbach, and myself of Minnesota wrote our
governor a letter a couple of weeks ago asking that he join about
20 to 25 governors across the country in order to reject that extra
money and have incentives to get people back to work. Also in Min-
nesota, we are encouraging our governor to reopen our state, give
up his emergency powers, and make sure that we can get all busi-
nesses and schools fully operational with kids back in school be-
cause that will free up people to get back to work and not be at
home all the time taking care of the kids. So it just seems to be
kind of commonsense in those areas.
But with that, I will yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. The gentleman yields back.
And now I recognize Ms. Davids from Kansas, the Chairwoman
of the Economic Growth, Tax and Capital Access Subcommittee of
the Small Business Committee. Ms. Davids, you are recognized for
5 minutes.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Chairman Phillips. And thanks for
holding this hearing today to focus on some of the newest SBA re-
lief programs that we are seeing for our small businesses. And it
has been referenced a couple of times already. Yesterday, we held
a Full Committee hearing with Administrator Guzman and I know
I asked her about the need to provide additional funds for the Res-
taurant Revitalization Fund. Obviously, the RRF is oversubscribed
at this point, and I have appreciated some of the comments by Mr.
Maguire about the need to properly fund the program. And also, I
know Ms. Kumar, in your testimony mentioned the impact of the
Restaurant Relief Fund.
I am curious if one or both of you, I would love to hear from both
of you, about how the return to things like greater indoor capacity,
like really fully opening up, is impacting you and what the RRF
can do about that. But also, kind of fundamentally looking forward,
I know Mr. Maguire, you actually talked a bit about none of us ex-
pected this to go on this long. And now we are seeing, we need to
be thinking about addressing this, we are 16, 18 months, like this
is going not impact us for a while. Can you talk a little bit about
just how you are planning for that and what you think the RRF
needs to look like and how we need to adapt?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Well, I think the most challenging word in that
whole commentary was planning. And there really is just no such
thing as that. I have been in this business since I was 18 years old.
I managed or owned or operated for 35 years. I have managed
P&Ls that whole time. I have never seen anything like this in my
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entire career. The price increases that we have seen in the last 45
days are unprecedented and there is no playbook for how to deal
with this. What I am looking for from the RRF is to provide finan-
cial support that will allow a runway for us to get to the point
where we can start planning and being strategic in what we do be-
cause right now there is really—I am not exaggerating when I say
I wake up and say, okay, what is coming my way today? And what
are my prices on this? And am I going to have to change my menu?
And will I be able to offer everything? And am I going to have
enough staff to meet the demand of the consumer? And that is a
daily issue. That is not something that any of us have ever had to
deal with.
Ms. KUMAR. Thank you for that.
I just want to state that yes, our restaurant is open for indoor
dining now. We are still practicing safety. But it is not as simple
as just unlocking our doors and going back to the way things were.
I do not think things are going to be the same for a really long
time. And the grant money, the period that it covers, the expenses
are covered from February of 2020 till March of 2023. So while the
grant awards might seem large and the fund, it sounds like it is
a lot of money, and it is, we are required to plan, and planning
again is the operative word. We cannot go back to the same way
of doing business. We have thousands of dollars that we owe to our
landlords, for example, if we were lucky enough to reach a deferred
agreement with them. A lot of us still owe money to our suppliers.
And a lot of people took out EIDL loans that they are going to be
making payments for 30 years because of this pandemic that put
us in a situation that was like no fault of our own. And in the best
of times before the pandemic, our profit margins were 6 to 9 per-
cent in a really good year. Like 9 percent we were jumping up and
down with joy. And now we are seeing again higher supplier costs.
Myself and our company, we are committed to much higher wages
for our employees and to make this a sustainable career for people
to come back to, to lure them back to work. I know a lot of people
really wanted to stay in the industry but they just simply could not
afford to do it. And that is an expensive commitment that we are
willing to make but we do need the support in order to sustain this
industry and make it a viable place for people to be employed.
Ms. DAVIDS. Yeah, thank you for that.
And just really quickly, Ms. Baruh, we are going to follow up
with you about some of the commentary that you made earlier. Ob-
viously, it is a huge issue if disregarded entities are having hurdles
the way they are to get access to the programs. Thank you so
much.
Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Ms. Davids.
And next I recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Dan
Meuser, the Ranking Member of the Economic Growth, Tax, and
Capital Access Subcommittee. I recognize you now, Dan, for 5 min-
utes.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Chairman Phillips. I appreciate that
very much, and Ranking Member, Van Duyne, for holding this
hearing. And I certainly thank all the witnesses for being with us
today which is very likely a nice day in Texas and North Carolina
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and the other places that you are. So I appreciate it. And for your
testimony that has a touch of optimism to it but a lot of reality be-
cause that is what business is all about. A lot of reality. There is
no fooling yourself in business. If you do, you go out of business.
So Mr. Maguire, being that you are in Texas and Ms. Kumar,
you are in North Carolina, our experience here in Pennsylvania has
been pretty rough for small businesses, for restaurants. We were
at 25 percent capacity from January 4th through April 4th, 25 per-
cent indoor capacity. On April 4th, we went to 50 percent capacity.
And on May 31st, we will go to 75 percent capacity. Or check that.
Since April 5th, we have been in 75 percent capacity. So as you can
see, restaurants in particular were hit hardest. Our small busi-
nesses were hit pretty hard, too. But of course, PPP was very, very
important, and my guess is, and from your testimonies and state-
ments that you all were able to gain PPP. Now, I also know that
restaurants have some part-time employees so the PPP was not
very significant even though in PPP 2 we increased it to a 2.5 per-
cent ratio. So I know that was helpful. But that is why the RRF
was so essential, and we allocated $27.5 billion, I believe. And with
prioritization. That is all well and good if there would have been
enough to go around, if you will. And there definitely was not. In
my district, I have virtually every restaurant I hear from has not
received the RRF, and not to point fingers but Republicans did ask
for an amendment of an added $20 billion to the RRF fund which
did not get passed, did not get accepted. Now, of course, we are try-
ing to find additional funds for the RRF which are very, very im-
portant. So that will continue.
Now, I would like to just ask, let me start with Cheetie Kumar,
if I can. Ms. Kumar, you would describe your experience, but where
are you now with, you said the PPP was very helpful. The RRF was
there for you. How are you with a percentage of where you would
like to be or where you were prior to the pandemic?
Ms. KUMAR. Thank you for that. Our company suffered a 70
percent reduction in revenue from the start of the pandemic until
now. We have been operating with indoor dining and maintain our
patio and we are seeing definitely increased revenue but it is going
to take us many, many, many months to get back to the original
level of revenue that we had before. And so 3 or 4 weeks of good
restaurant business does not really cover 15 months of extreme
losses. And it is going to be probably, I mean, I do not foresee see-
ing a profit this year, this calendar year. My husband is my part-
ner and we are still drawing a really conservative salary. We did
not pay ourselves at all until PPP 2, and we are projecting making
maybe $45,000 a year as a guaranteed salary, if we are lucky, if
there are no more dips in the roller-coaster. We do not have amne-
sia about what has happened already in the last year so we are
kind of bracing ourselves and holding onto that money and being
very conservative minded about how we spend that money in the
coming months.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. And as far as government assistance, that
is somewhat in the rearview mirror now; right? I mean, we are in
recovery mode. And so now at least you do not want government
giving you any additional headwinds such as the unemployment
compensation we know is going until September. Is that a negative,
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is that a little bit of a headwind for you, or what are your thoughts
there?
Ms. KUMAR. Well, for me in North Carolina, the average unem-
ployment benefit, even with the federal assistance, is less than
$500 a week. And for our restaurant, that is not a competitive de-
terrent for people to come back to work. We offer a living wage and
we are proud to do so. For us personally, we are not a low wage,
hourly, part-time kind of restaurant.
Mr. MEUSER. That is great. I appreciate that. That is good.
That is very good to hear. It truly is.
Mr. Maguire, your thoughts on the UC supplement.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Mr. Meuser, your time has expired. I am
sorry.
Mr. MEUSER. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank
you.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Dan.
And now I recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Donalds,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. DONALDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the
Ranking Member.
First of all, I just want to associate myself with the comments
of Mr. Meuser and the Ranking Member specifically when it comes
to the fact that we did try to put more money into the Restaurant
Fund. And we all know what happened on the Committee, so we
will just move on.
But real quick, Mr. Maguire, I know Representative Meuser had
a question for you so I actually would like to just allow you to give
you time to answer Representative Meuser’s previous question.
Mr. MAGUIRE. The question regarding the headwind caused or
potentially caused by the UI benefit?
Mr. DONALDS. Yes.
Mr. MAGUIRE. Well, as I mentioned before, it is certainly a
component of what is contributing to the labor shortage. There is
no doubt about that. I can give you very specific examples within
my staff that has chosen to continue working or not working and
collecting the UI benefit. However, there are some considerations
there that are beyond their control and what I have told them is,
look, when I need you back to work, you are going to have to come
back to work or I cannot guarantee that I am going to give you a
job. But the bottom line is right now UI is a huge contributor to
the labor shortage. People moving out of our industry is a huge
contributor to the labor shortage. People not being able to get
childcare coverage to work the hours we want them to is a huge
contributor. And these issues are ongoing and we are going to col-
lectively find a way to work together to overcome them. But the UI
benefits certainly need to be addressed.
Mr. DONALDS. Thanks for that.
Real quick, I want to jump into a couple of things because obvi-
ously we could talk about what the programs have been. I under-
stand that they have been helpful. The enterprises have been able
to take advantage of it. But we are also having to consider new
policies that are coming down.
So Mr. Montana, I want to ask you real briefly, considering the
administration’s putting out the idea of raising corporate income
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taxes and also their policy that they wanted to put through of rais-
ing the minimum wage, the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour,
what would be the impacts of that on your enterprise?
Mr. MONTANA. Representative Donalds, thanks for the ques-
tion.
So as to the minimum wage, there is no one who works for Du
Nord Craft Spirits that makes the minimum wage. They all make
more than the minimum wage and that is on purpose because we
want people to have a living wage and it is in large part because
of that that we do not have any kind of a labor shortage. We have
people who are trying to come back. I think people should like their
jobs and not just have to work their jobs.
The other side of that, when you talk about the tax implications,
one thing to keep in mind when you think about it, I am coming
to you from a distillery. This is a unique perspective. Many distill-
eries are in a growth phase, which is a polite way of saying that
most of us lose money. And so when we are looking at income
taxes, well, that is not really where we pay our taxes. We pay our
taxes in excise taxes. So we pay a tax just to be able to sell. And
so that is where the tax burden typically is for us. But I am not
particularly concerned about the percentages moving up or down.
Here or there. That is not what holds my business back. What is
holding my business back is that I am required by law to use mid-
dlemen and I do not have a route to my customer. And so if some-
one is looking to help out my business, a craft distillery, make it
so that I can sell just like anybody else directly to my customer.
And the day that that happens, you are going to see distilleries
take it to the next level and really thrive in this country.
Mr. DONALDS. All right.
Mr. Maguire, real quick, I have got about a minute left, you stat-
ed in your written testimony that you have only raised prices once
in 6 years. You have had to raise them twice in the last year. You
have 52 seconds. Why?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Why have I had to raise them twice?
Mr. DONALDS. Yes, sir. Why?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Because of the unprecedented increases in our
product costs in the last 45 days. We did not see 10 to 15 percent
increases on any of our product cost during the pandemic outside
of the paper and to-go supplies and the PPE equipment and sup-
plies. Our commodity pricing has gone absolutely berserk in the
last 2-1/2 months and really in the last——
Mr. DONALDS. Mr. Maguire, real quick. Real quick because I
have got now 24 seconds. What have your suppliers said in relation
to these price increase?
Mr. MAGUIRE. Most of the suppliers are saying it is happening
at the manufacturing level and the manufacturing level is hap-
pening because of labor shortages.
Mr. DONALDS. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Maguire.
Chairman PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Donalds.
Are there any other members that wish to continue to a second
round of questioning? If so, just raise your hand either virtually or
physically.
Nobody? Okay.
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I want to thank our witnesses. I learned a lot from each of you.
Mr. Montana, having come from the distilling business, I surely
understand what that three-tier system does and does not do, and
I understand efficiencies and inefficiencies. To all of you in hospi-
tality, rest assured a great deal of empathy from all of us. So I
want to thank you. You have all endured a lot over the last year
and the effort just to get to this day is nothing short of incredible
to me. Your testimonies illuminated the benefits and drawbacks of
the SBA programs as they currently operate and illuminated some
ways that we can improve them. Hopefully, we will not have to do
this again to this magnitude, but should we, we will be better pre-
pared and we have opportunities to improve existing programs,
perpetual programs as well. As the voice of small businesses in
Washington, this Committee has to work to improve these pro-
grams to meet the needs of entrepreneurs better, plain and simple.
So I look forward to working with fellow members of the Sub-
committee on a bipartisan basis to help find ways to make these
programs operate more effectively and more efficiently.
I would ask for unanimous consent that members have 5 legisla-
tive days to submit statements and supporting materials for the
record.
Without objection, that is so ordered.
If there is no further business to come before the Committee, we
are now officially adjourned. Thanks, everybody.
[Whereupon, at 2:16 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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File and source
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- 24,295,088 bytes
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- CHRG-117hhrg44923.pdf
- Original
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