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Catalyzing Economic Growth through SBA Community-Based Lending (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, March 29, 2022)

Summary

The House Small Business Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and Capital Access, chaired by Representative Sharice Davids, heard three community lenders on March 29, 2022: Manny Flores of SomerCor, Kerry Doi of the Pacific Asian Consortium in Employment (PACE) and Brooke Mirenda of the Sunshine State Economic Development Corporation (SEDCO). Chairwoman Davids said Congress put set-asides in legislation so community lenders could take part in PPP on equal footing with bigger banks, and that in later rounds the average loan size decreased substantially and more funding reached businesses in underserved markets. Ranking Member Dan Meuser said the 504 CDC program issued 185 loans in Pennsylvania last fiscal year for over $153 million and that the SBA has somewhat slow-walked the implementation of the 504 Express Program. The hearing is Small Business Committee Document Number 117–051.

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“Catalyzing Economic Growth through SBA Community-Based Lending (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, March 29, 2022).” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/catalyzing-economic-growth-through-sba-community-based-lending-house-s-0192e0eb94/, SHA-256 d5df14d11818de6e4d3d1a32afe447ccf80e02c0d47252d10ac563bda90fe497.

Full text

                                                               CATALYZING ECONOMIC GROWTH THROUGH SBA
                                                                        COMMUNITY-BASED LENDING


                                                                                                  HEARING
                                                                                                         BEFORE THE


                                                              SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH,
                                                                   TAX, AND CAPITAL ACCESS
                                                                                                            OF THE


                                                                        COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                               UNITED STATES
                                                                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
                                                                                ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                                       SECOND SESSION


                                                                                                       HEARING HELD
                                                                                                       MARCH 29, 2022




                                                                                 Small Business Committee Document Number 117–051
                                                                                   Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov



                                                                                           U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                                                    47–180                             WASHINGTON : 2022




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                                                                                    HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                                                                       NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                                                                                                JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                                                                                                JASON CROW, Colorado
                                                                                               SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                                                                                              KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                                                                                              DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                                                                                               MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
                                                                                           CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
                                                                                               TROY CARTER, Louisiana
                                                                                                 JUDY CHU, California
                                                                                            DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                                                                                            ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
                                                                                          CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                                                                                                ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                                                                                               ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
                                                                                    BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
                                                                                               ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                                                                                              PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                                                                                              DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                                                                                             CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
                                                                                           ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
                                                                                                YOUNG KIM, California
                                                                                               BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                                                                                               BYRON DONALDS, Florida
                                                                                               MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                                                                                            SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

                                                                                           MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
                                                                                      ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
                                                                                              DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director




                                                                                                                  (II)




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                                                                                                               CONTENTS
                                                                                                            OPENING STATEMENTS
                                                                                                                                                                                                Page
                                                              Hon. Sharice Davids ................................................................................................                1
                                                              Hon. Dan Meuser .....................................................................................................               2

                                                                                                                       WITNESSES
                                                              Mr. Manny Flores, President and Chief Executive Officer, SomerCor, Chicago,
                                                               IL ...........................................................................................................................     4
                                                              Mr. Kerry Doi, President and Chief Executive Officer, Pacific Asian Consor-
                                                               tium in Employment (PACE), Los Angeles, CA ................................................                                        6
                                                              Ms. Brooke Mirenda, President and Chief Executive Officer, Sunshine State
                                                               Economic Development Corporation (SEDCO), Clearwater, FL ......................                                                    7

                                                                                                                        APPENDIX
                                                              Prepared Statements:
                                                                  Mr. Manny Flores, President and Chief Executive Officer, SomerCor,
                                                                    Chicago, IL ....................................................................................................             19
                                                                  Mr. Kerry Doi, President and Chief Executive Officer, Pacific Asian Con-
                                                                    sortium in Employment (PACE), Los Angeles, CA ....................................                                           28
                                                                  Ms. Brooke Mirenda, President and Chief Executive Officer, Sunshine
                                                                    State Economic Development Corporation (SEDCO), Clearwater, FL .....                                                         39
                                                              Questions for the Record:
                                                                  None.
                                                              Answers for the Record:
                                                                  None.
                                                              Additional Material for the Record:
                                                                  CUNA - Credit Union National Association ...................................................                                   47
                                                                  NADCO - National Association of Development Companies ........................                                                 49




                                                                                                                               (III)




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                                                                   CATALYZING ECONOMIC GROWTH THROUGH
                                                                       SBA COMMUNITY-BASED LENDING

                                                                                            TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 2022

                                                                                  HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                                                                   COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
                                                                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH,
                                                                                                 TAX, AND CAPITAL ACCESS,
                                                                                                                Washington, DC.
                                                                The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room
                                                              2360, Rayburn House Office Building and via Zoom, Hon. Sharice
                                                              Davids [chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
                                                                Present: Representatives Davids, Bourdeaux, Chu, Meuser,
                                                              Donalds, Young Kim, and Van Duyne.
                                                                Chairwoman DAVIDS. Good morning. I call this hearing to
                                                              order.
                                                                Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
                                                              any time.
                                                                I would like to begin by noting some important requirements.
                                                              Standing House and Committee rules and practice will continue to
                                                              apply during hybrid proceedings. All Members are reminded that
                                                              they are expected to adhere to these rules, including decorum.
                                                                House regulations require Members to be visible through a video
                                                              connection throughout the proceeding, so please keep your cameras
                                                              on. Also, please remember to remain muted until you are recog-
                                                              nized to minimize background noise.
                                                                In the event a Member encounters technical issues that prevent
                                                              them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
                                                              next available Member of the same party and I will recognize that
                                                              Member at the next appropriate time slot provided they have re-
                                                              turned to the proceeding.
                                                                The COVID-19 pandemic highlighted long-standing inequities in
                                                              the small business lending market. In March of 2020, Congress
                                                              stepped in to support small businesses through the Paycheck Pro-
                                                              tection Program. Under PPP, banks and other private lenders
                                                              made fully guaranteed SBA loans to small businesses hurt by the
                                                              virus.
                                                                Over the life of the program, PPP delivered over $800 billion in
                                                              emergency loans. This aid helped small businesses keep employees
                                                              on payroll and pay necessary expenses like rent and utilities. But
                                                              as we heard last week in our Oversight Committee, it became clear
                                                              that access to the program was not equal for everyone.
                                                                Prior relationships with big banks led to the exclusion of the
                                                              smallest of small businesses, putting them at risk of closing perma-
                                                              nently.
                                                                                                                  (1)




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                                                                 One of our top priorities for this Committee was empowering
                                                              community lenders to originate more PPP loans to maximize lend-
                                                              ing in underserved communities. These institutions typically have
                                                              deep ties to the smallest businesses.
                                                                 We incorporated set-asides in multiple pieces of legislation to al-
                                                              locate funds so that community lenders could participate in PPP on
                                                              equal footing with bigger banks.
                                                                 Both the GAO and outside experts found these changes proved
                                                              to be effective in making the program more accessible.
                                                                 In later rounds of PPP, the average loan size decreased substan-
                                                              tially, and more funding reached businesses in underserved mar-
                                                              kets.
                                                                 Moreover, small firms reported the highest level of satisfaction
                                                              with community-based lenders and small banks.
                                                                 The ability of community lenders to reach underserved busi-
                                                              nesses should serve as an important lesson moving forward.
                                                                 Though the PPP portal closed last May, these community lenders
                                                              can be a vital tool as we work to drive an equitable recovery. In
                                                              fact, many of the community lenders that helped deliver PPP to un-
                                                              derserved businesses are already active in SBA lending programs.
                                                              Programs like the 504/CDC Loan Program, SBA Microloan Pro-
                                                              gram, and Community Advantage pilot loan program are all deliv-
                                                              ered by community lenders. Each program has proven effective in
                                                              helping deliver capital to underserved communities.
                                                                 By strengthening existing SBA programs that utilize community
                                                              lenders, we can help ensure that all small firms have access to the
                                                              capital they need to grow and thrive.
                                                                 Members of this Committee have introduced and advanced nu-
                                                              merous pieces of legislation to bolster these programs to better
                                                              serve entrepreneurs.
                                                                 Today, I look forward to taking a close look at these proposals
                                                              and hearing directly from community lenders about the issues that
                                                              they face and what we can do to help.
                                                                 I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member Mr. Meuser for
                                                              his opening statement.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And thank
                                                              you for holding this hearing on small business access to capital. It
                                                              is and will remain one of the top issues for this Committee.
                                                                 Over the last few years, main street businesses across our vast
                                                              nation have experienced one hurdle after another. COVID-19 shut-
                                                              downs devastated our country’s small businesses, entrepreneurs,
                                                              and startups. From forced closures to capacity restrictions, busi-
                                                              ness owners were confronted with a challenging path forward. In
                                                              response to the emergency period, former President Trump and
                                                              Congress enacted numerous small business relief measures, includ-
                                                              ing the popular Paycheck Protection Program that was delivered to
                                                              small businesses through a joint effort with private sector lenders.
                                                                 Today, small businesses are facing economic headwinds that are
                                                              preventing their recovery and growth. If it is not scorching inflation
                                                              price increases, small businesses are facing supply chain disrup-
                                                              tions that are preventing goods from reaching their shelves.
                                                                 On top of ever-increasing costs, small businesses continue to
                                                              have trouble finding employees. All you have to do is enter a small
                                                              business and they will be sure to inform you of that. These are not




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                                                              the economic conditions that instill confidence into a sector of our
                                                              economy that produces nearly half of the country’s gross domestic
                                                              product and comprises over 99 percent of all businesses in the na-
                                                              tion.
                                                                 Despite these obstacles, small businesses can lead our nation
                                                              back to economic growth. In order to do this, however, we must en-
                                                              sure the lending environment is healthy, robust, and responsible.
                                                              That is why a public-private partnership lending model must con-
                                                              tinue to be the model of choice for our country when it comes to
                                                              federal access to capital programs. Involving the private sector is
                                                              the best way to produce efficiencies that cannot be matched or
                                                              equaled by strictly the federal government.
                                                                 Furthermore, private sector lenders act as centennials against
                                                              fraud. Anything less has proven to be very problematic and frank-
                                                              ly, is unacceptable.
                                                                 One example of this public-private partnership is through the
                                                              SBA’s 504 CDC loan program. This program, which focuses on eco-
                                                              nomic development, reached record highs last fiscal year while
                                                              serving small businesses and communities across the nation.
                                                                 In my state, Pennsylvania, the program issued 185 loans last fis-
                                                              cal year for over $153 million. It does not seem all that significant
                                                              but extremely significant to the 185 recipients of those loans.
                                                              Again, this is an economic development-driven program; therefore,
                                                              each loan requires a job creation goal or community development
                                                              goal to be met. While the program continues to be successful, there
                                                              is more work that needs to be done, especially when it comes to the
                                                              management of the program by the SBA.
                                                                 The turn time on delivering loans to small business owners con-
                                                              tinues to grow, which is concerning, and the SBA has somewhat
                                                              slow-walked the implementation of the 504 Express Program which
                                                              it was enacted in a bipartisan manner over a year ago.
                                                                 Madam Chair, I would like to note that when Republicans asked
                                                              about the delays in launching this new tool, all we received back
                                                              from the SBA is that it would be implemented soon. This is really
                                                              not acceptable. Small businesses are working tirelessly to serve
                                                              their communities. Unfortunately, the actions of this administra-
                                                              tion did not always suggest that they are putting the nation’s job
                                                              creators at the forefront. From the SBA inadequately answering
                                                              our questions to the Treasury Secretary ignoring this Committee,
                                                              which I think upsets both sides of the aisle and small businesses,
                                                              by refusing to testify, again, despite what the law requires. This
                                                              administration must do better.
                                                                 With that, Madam Chair, I would like to thank you for holding
                                                              this hearing, and I am looking forward to the conversation on how
                                                              a public-private partnership lending models can successfully de-
                                                              liver capital to the nation’s job creators and the communities that
                                                              they serve.
                                                                 And I yield back.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
                                                                 And with that, I would like to introduce one of our witnesses.
                                                              Our first witness is Mr. Manny Flores, president and chief execu-
                                                              tive officer of SomerCor, an SBA-certified development company lo-
                                                              cated in Chicago, Illinois. In addition to making 504 loans,
                                                              SomerCor is an active lender in the SBA Community Advantage




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                                                              pilot loan program. SomerCor also participates in the City of Chi-
                                                              cago’s Small Business Improvement Fund which promotes economic
                                                              development by providing small firms in Chicago with reimburs-
                                                              able grants for permanent building improvement costs. SomerCor
                                                              is a Member of the National Association of Development Compa-
                                                              nies (NADCO) and we are glad to have you with us today. Wel-
                                                              come, Mr. Flores.
                                                                 And I will now yield to the Ranking Member.
                                                                 Sorry about that.
                                                                 Our second witness is Mr. Kerry Doi, the president and chief ex-
                                                              ecutive officer of the Pacific Asian Consortium in Employment
                                                              (PACE), located in Los Angeles, California. PACE is a Treasury
                                                              certified community development financial institution (CDFI) and
                                                              an SBA microloan intermediary and Community Advantage lender
                                                              focusing on supporting primarily Asian American entrepreneurs
                                                              and those from underserved communities. PACE is also a Member
                                                              of the Friends of the SBA Microloan Program, a nationwide net-
                                                              work of nonprofit microlending intermediaries focused on economic
                                                              development.
                                                                 Welcome, Mr. Doi, and we look forward to your testimony.
                                                                 I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Meuser,
                                                              to introduce our third and final witness.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. Thank you again, Madam Chairwoman.
                                                                 Our next witness is Brooke Mirenda. Ms. Mirenda is the presi-
                                                              dent and chief executive officer of Sunshine State Economic Devel-
                                                              opment Corporation, also known as SEDCO, based in Clearwater,
                                                              Florida. SEDCO is a nonprofit CDC that participates in the SBA’s
                                                              504 Loan Program. With over 15 years of financial services and
                                                              banking experience, Ms. Mirenda also serves on the Legislative
                                                              Committee with the National Association of Development Compa-
                                                              nies, the main trade association for the 504 Loan Program. Addi-
                                                              tionally, Ms. Mirenda serves on numerous community boards
                                                              throughout the State of Florida.
                                                                 Ms. Mirenda, we are glad to have you back before the Com-
                                                              mittee. Your extensive experience in the area of economic develop-
                                                              ment lending will benefit this conversation immensely.
                                                                 And Madam Chairwoman, I yield back.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
                                                                 And thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.
                                                                 Mr. Flores, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                                                              STATEMENTS OF MANNY FLORES, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EX-
                                                               ECUTIVE OFFICER, SOMERCOR; KERRY DOI, PRESIDENT
                                                               AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PACIFIC ASIAN CONSOR-
                                                               TIUM IN EMPLOYMENT (PACE); BROOKE MIRENDA, PRESI-
                                                               DENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SUNSHINE STATE
                                                               ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (SEDCO)

                                                                                       STATEMENT OF MANNY FLORES
                                                                Mr. FLORES. Good morning, Chairwoman Davids, Ranking
                                                              Member Meuser, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for
                                                              the privilege of testifying before you today to discuss the Small
                                                              Business Administration community-based lending programs.




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                                                                 My name is Manuel Flores, and I am here on behalf of
                                                              SomerCor, a Certified Development Company based in Chicago, Il-
                                                              linois. There are more than 200 nonprofit CDCs nationwide work-
                                                              ing in their communities to deliver the SBA’s 504 loan program, as
                                                              well as other SBA resources like the 7(a) Community Advantage
                                                              and Microloan programs.
                                                                 CDCs are required to invest in economic development initiatives
                                                              in their areas of operation beyond their participation in the SBA
                                                              504 program. To use SomerCor as an example, not only are we one
                                                              of the nation’s larger CDCs by annual loan volume, we also partici-
                                                              pate in the SBA’s Community Advantage loan program and admin-
                                                              ister small business grants on behalf of the City of Chicago for new
                                                              investments in under-resourced communities.
                                                                 We are part of a national CDC network that plays an integral
                                                              role through a mission-based lens in growing economic develop-
                                                              ment in communities across our nation. The SBA 504 loan program
                                                              is a public-private partnership that brings together traditional
                                                              lenders and CDCs to help small businesses finance the acquisition
                                                              of commercial real estate, make building improvements, and pur-
                                                              chase equipment with terms typically not available conventionally.
                                                              The program provides loans of up to $5 million and $5.5 million for
                                                              certain industries. The hallmarks of the program include terms of
                                                              10 years for equipment and 25 years for real estate with a fixed,
                                                              below market interest rate.
                                                                 In the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic and our ongoing eco-
                                                              nomic recovery, I want to take this opportunity to highlight three
                                                              policy considerations. First and foremost, it is critical for the 504
                                                              program to remain open and viable. Increased loan demand under
                                                              the 504 program exceeded its then-congressionally authorized cap
                                                              of $7.5 billion in fiscal year 2021, effectively shutting the program
                                                              down for 3 weeks, causing a myriad of negative issues for small
                                                              businesses. In fiscal year 2022, program demand continues at an
                                                              unprecedented rate. We are extremely thankful Congress increased
                                                              the 504 program authorization level to $11 billion for the remain-
                                                              der of fiscal year 2022, averting a significant disruption in the mar-
                                                              ket.
                                                                 It is important, however, for Congress to take new steps now to
                                                              avoid a program shutdown in the future as we anticipate continued
                                                              growth and demand. As a zero subsidy program that encourages
                                                              small business expansion, our ask is for certainty and the ability
                                                              to meet rising demand long term. A step in the right direction is
                                                              to combine the authorization levels of the regular 504 program and
                                                              the refi without expansion programs so all 504 programs are under
                                                              the same authorization level of $15 billion.
                                                                 My second recommendation is for passage of the 504 Moderniza-
                                                              tion and Small Manufacturer’s Act of 2021, H.R. 1490, which in-
                                                              creases the 504 loan for manufacturers to $6.5 million, decreases
                                                              the borrower equity injection from 10 to five percent, and includes
                                                              other provisions that support small businesses in the manufac-
                                                              turing sector.
                                                                 I want to be clear that we have an opportunity to do more to
                                                              catalyze increased investment in new manufacturing here in the
                                                              United States. The pandemic and global supply chain disruptions
                                                              laid bare the need for a stronger and more resilient domestic man-




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                                                              ufacturing sector. H.R. 1490 may provide more capital to help
                                                              strengthen our manufacturing industry.
                                                                 Finally, we recommend adoption of NADCO’s request to make
                                                              the Community Advantage program permanent with provisions to
                                                              set it for long-term success. This includes training for new Commu-
                                                              nity Advantage lenders and viable solutions to alleviate liquidity
                                                              issues that constrain the lending capacity of nonprofit CDCs. The
                                                              Community Advantage program has been a pilot since 2011, but for
                                                              the program to be successful, lenders and borrowers need certainty
                                                              on the continuity of the program.
                                                                 Sitting here before you is an honor, and I do so in the spirit of
                                                              advocating for small businesses who help build our communities.
                                                              One such example is SomerCor client Osorio Metals Supply, a fam-
                                                              ily-owned business in Chicago started by Rubin Osorio in 1992 as
                                                              a one-man operation working out of his garage. This past year,
                                                              Rubin and his daughter Adriana, who is now the company’s chief
                                                              operating officer, turned to SomerCor for an SBA 504 loan to make
                                                              needed renovations to their 30,000 square foot facility. Now, Osorio
                                                              Metals has a state-of-the-art facility to better serve its clients. And
                                                              as Adriana said, and I quote, ‘‘Acquiring a new facility and trans-
                                                              forming the space to fit our needs has been a dream come true for
                                                              our family business and it would not have been possible without
                                                              this program.’’
                                                                 It is these businesses and projects that inspire our work. Again,
                                                              thank you for the opportunity to testify here today, and I look for-
                                                              ward to answering your questions.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you, Mr. Flores.
                                                                 And Mr. Doi, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                                                                                           STATEMENT OF KERRY DOI
                                                                Mr. DOI. Thank you, Madam Chair, Representative Meuser, my
                                                              Congresswoman Judy Chu, honorable Members of the Committee.
                                                              I am Kerry Doi, CEO of PACE. Thank you for this opportunity to
                                                              testify before the House Small Business Committee on the all-im-
                                                              portant catalyzing economic growth through SBA community-based
                                                              lending.
                                                                PACE was incorporated in 1976, and in 1993, began providing
                                                              business development services to pre-startups, microenterprises,
                                                              and small businesses. Since inception, PACE Business has trained
                                                              or counseled more than 68,000 pre-startups, startups, operating
                                                              micro and small businesses who have established or expanded over
                                                              17,000 small businesses that have created or retained over 22,000
                                                              jobs.
                                                                For over 28 years, PACE has provide comprehensive wraparound
                                                              services to more than 68,000 businesses across L.A. County.
                                                                The SBA microloan program, which was authorized in 1991 to
                                                              businesses that conventional lenders were and remain unable to fi-
                                                              nance for a variety of reasons, including lack of sufficient collateral
                                                              or business experience. Nonprofit community-based intermediary
                                                              lenders use the SBA microloan program to finance new and emerg-
                                                              ing businesses in urban and rural communities and eventually
                                                              moved these businesses into the economic mainstream as bankable
                                                              ventures.




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                                                                 The average SBA microloan was $14,435 in FY2020. There are
                                                              144 active microloan intermediaries serving 49 states, the District
                                                              of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. In FY21 alone, microlenders made
                                                              an additional 4,510 loans totaling over $74 million. Of this amount,
                                                              63 percent went to existing businesses, 36.9 percent to startups, 48
                                                              percent to woman-owned businesses, 66.9 percent to minority-
                                                              owned enterprises.
                                                                 This financing led to the creation of 7,500 jobs and the retention
                                                              of over 10,000 jobs.
                                                                 Despite intermediaries serving at-risk small businesses, the SBA
                                                              microloan program has a cumulative default rate of less than 2
                                                              percent. PAC’s SBA microloan program started in 2010. Since the
                                                              program launched, our loan team has deployed 323 loans for $3.3
                                                              million, with an average loan size of $10,156. As of March 15, 2022,
                                                              we have 32 SBA microloans in our portfolio totaling $548,472, or
                                                              an average loan size of $17,139.
                                                                 We reviewed H.R. 1487 and H.R. 1502. H.R. 1487 establishes a
                                                              series of reporting requirements for SBA and requires an annual
                                                              report on the effectiveness of the microloan program. H.R. 1502
                                                              makes a number of improvements and updates the microloan pro-
                                                              gram, which we support. Of particular note, it raises the definition
                                                              of small loans from $7,500 to $10,000.
                                                                 In addition, it establishes loans of 7 years for loans of $10,000
                                                              or less, and up to 10 years for loans that are greater than $10,000.
                                                              Reviewing the allocation for SBA funds is important by reserving
                                                              the first 2 quarters of the fiscal year, 15 percent of the annual
                                                              microloan appropriation for unutilized states.
                                                                 One issue that the bill does not address is the Executive Order
                                                              mandating language access that we would urge the Committee to
                                                              consider. Otherwise, we fully support the bill and the microloan
                                                              program which has proven itself to be an important tool for eco-
                                                              nomic development. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you, Mr. Doi.
                                                                 Ms. Mirenda, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                                                                                     STATEMENT OF BROOKE MIRENDA
                                                                 Ms. MIRENDA. Chairwoman Davids, Ranking Member Meuser,
                                                              and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to
                                                              join in the conversation on community-based lending and the work
                                                              CDCs are doing to build communities across the U.S.
                                                                 My name is Brooke Mirenda, and I am here on behalf of Sun-
                                                              shine State Economic Development Corporation (SECD), located in
                                                              Clearwater, Florida, and I serve as the president and CEO. I re-
                                                              main intimately involved in ensuring the capital access needs of
                                                              borrowers are being met, primarily via the SBA 504 loan program.
                                                                 I am also a Member of the National Association of Development
                                                              Companies (NADC)), a trade organization dedicated to supporting
                                                              the CDC industry and our collective work in the economic develop-
                                                              ment arena. The SBA 504 loan program not only creates jobs in our
                                                              economy, it also offers beneficial rates and terms for our small
                                                              business owners, helping them to preserve capital and grow their
                                                              businesses while operating at a zero subsidy. Because the core pur-
                                                              pose of the program is economic development, all 504 borrowers




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                                                              must meet at least one of two specified economic development ob-
                                                              jectives which are outlined in my written testimony.
                                                                 In fiscal year 2021, the 504 program delivered more than $8.2
                                                              billion in financing to 9,700 businesses. The creation of retention
                                                              of 85,000 jobs and a total capital investment of over $20 billion. In
                                                              fact, we served so many small businesses that we reached our
                                                              then-Congressional authorized cap of $7.5 billion on September
                                                              7th, and SBA was unable to approve any 504 loans until the fiscal
                                                              year authorization levels reset October 1st.
                                                                 Volume did not dissipate in fiscal year 2022, and we began rais-
                                                              ing with NADCO to raise our concerns about another much longer
                                                              much longer shutdown of the program. Thankfully, Members of
                                                              this Committee, as well as our counterparts in the Senate, came to-
                                                              gether to work with appropriators to ensure businesses have access
                                                              to the job creating financing they need by increasing the authoriza-
                                                              tion level for the regular 504 program to $11 billion for the remain-
                                                              der of the fiscal year.
                                                                 I want to take a moment to share my sincere thanks for all the
                                                              effort put into making this increase a reality. Our borrowers, our
                                                              lenders, and our CDCs thank you.
                                                                 I believe a major reason the 504 program continues to grow is
                                                              the program is a prime example of how public-private partnerships
                                                              should work. The SBA administers the program and we, the pri-
                                                              vate sector nonprofits focused on economic development, partner
                                                              with private sector lenders to deliver the program. The CDC and
                                                              lending partner each complete full loan underwriting which is then
                                                              reviewed by the SBA. As a result, small business owners are not
                                                              repaying their debts. The 504 has a charge off rate of $.6 percent
                                                              over the last 10 years. Because of the soundness of the program,
                                                              the costs associated with it are paid for by fees so it does not cost
                                                              taxpayers any money.
                                                                 The program is performing extremely well and providing much
                                                              needed capital to our nation’s job creators, small businesses. How-
                                                              ever, there are considerations Congress should keep in mind to
                                                              make sure it stays successful. First and foremost, the program
                                                              needs to stay open. I, along with NADCO, urge Congress to work
                                                              together to come to a long-term solution to the 504 authorization
                                                              level including combining the regular 504 and debt refinance with-
                                                              out expansion caps. It would be devastating to small businesses
                                                              and to the reputation of the program if the program would have
                                                              shut down for any period of time.
                                                                 Secondly, as a result of the increased profile at the SBA and the
                                                              economic impacts of the pandemic on small businesses, its lending
                                                              programs are experiencing increased demand. However, SBA is
                                                              largely operating with the same staffing levels as they were pre-
                                                              pandemic, and although they are working hard to keep up with the
                                                              demand of the program, over time and overworked staff is not a
                                                              permanent solution.
                                                                 A solution is one passed by Congress in the Economic Aid Act
                                                              which is a pilot within the 504 program that would allow vetted,
                                                              proven CDCs with ALP status to more efficiently process loans up
                                                              to $500,000. SEDCO alone would have been able to process 51 per-
                                                              cent of our loans under this program. The CDC industry is still
                                                              awaiting the rule implementation which is to sunset in fiscal year




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                                                              2023. NADCO and I recommend Congress extending the sunset to
                                                              fiscal year 2027 to allow it sufficient time to operate in order for
                                                              SBA and Congress to be able to make an informed determination
                                                              on its efficacy.
                                                                 My final recommendation is for the implementation process of
                                                              laws that impact the SBA’s lending programs to include a dialogue
                                                              about congress intent. For example, Congress authorized changes
                                                              to the debt refinance without expansion program in the Economic
                                                              Aid Act. Those changes we believe were intended to bring parity
                                                              to the refinancing of government debt among SBA lending pro-
                                                              grams. However, the implementation of the debt refinance provi-
                                                              sions included parameters that limit the ability of CDCs to reach
                                                              as many small business owners as the changes should allow.
                                                                 I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to bring these issues to
                                                              your attention and talk about a program that is doing phenome-
                                                              nally well with $4.48 billion in approved 504 loans as of March
                                                              18th.
                                                                 I look forward to working with you to ensure the future success
                                                              of this public-private partnership and I am happy to answer any
                                                              questions.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you, Ms. Mirenda. And thank you
                                                              to all of our witnesses for joining us today. We appreciate your ex-
                                                              pertise and the recommendations and considerations that you’ve
                                                              shared with us.
                                                                 So, I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
                                                                 So, even as we have seen a booming economy in this last year,
                                                              the reality is that a lot of small business owners are still facing
                                                              some pretty enormous challenges. Whether that is from inflation or
                                                              supply chain shortages, a lot of small businesses are still working
                                                              with very slim margins and pretty uncertain nods.
                                                                 Mr. Flores, as a 504 and Community Advantage lender, you are
                                                              able to offer small businesses the full range of eligible loan uses
                                                              from long-term fixed asset and real estate financing to the 504 pro-
                                                              gram working capital in the Community Advantage Program. With
                                                              the broad range of eligible uses, how do the SBA community lend-
                                                              ing programs help small businesses compete amid growing uncer-
                                                              tainty around things like energy prices and other costs?
                                                                 And Ms. Mirenda, if you want to chime in after.
                                                                 Mr. FLORES. Thank you, Madam Chair, for that question.
                                                                 In my opinion and my view and in my experience in seeing first-
                                                              hand how these programs work, it is about providing stability. In
                                                              particular, the 504 program, because you have these long terms as-
                                                              sociated with it, it allows businesses for better planning, for pre-
                                                              serving capital, and it is also affordable financing. With regards to
                                                              the Community Advantage Loan program, it is a $50,000 to
                                                              $250,000 loan program as you know, and that is, frankly, it is a
                                                              challenging type of loan to find conventionally. So, we can fill a gap
                                                              in the market to be able to assist these small businesses. And in
                                                              particular, we are looking to support businesses in low- and mod-
                                                              erate-income communities as part of that initiative.
                                                                 So, it really provides additional support for these businesses that
                                                              frankly without these programs, they would not have those capital
                                                              options.




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                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. And so, I am curious with the mixture
                                                              and breadth that you both see in the work you are doing. Can you
                                                              talk a little bit about the ability to both plan long term, or longer
                                                              term, while also being kind of flexible and adaptable to the eco-
                                                              nomic environment that we have seen and the ways that you all
                                                              engage with your clientele?
                                                                 Mr. FLORES. So, Madam Chair, the Certified Development Com-
                                                              pany Network is made up of companies that are working directly
                                                              in their neighborhoods and communities. And while we take a lot
                                                              of pride in providing very high quality expertise in the lending
                                                              process, we also, oftentimes, provide technical assistance. Working
                                                              hand-in-hand with chambers of commerce and other important
                                                              community stakeholders in making sure that people are made
                                                              aware of the resources that the Small Business Administration of-
                                                              fers, but then also providing some very direct support in how to ac-
                                                              cess these loans. How to become loan ready if you are not at a
                                                              point in your business to be able to access a 504 loan. Or with
                                                              these businesses on how to engage in better planning. We view our-
                                                              selves as strategic partners in all areas related to economic devel-
                                                              opment and support of strengthening a small business ecosystem.
                                                              And we do so, again, in reinforcing not only the partnership with
                                                              organizations such as chambers of commerce, but also with other
                                                              lending partners * banks, credit unions * that also play an integral
                                                              role in the deployment of these programs along with CDCs.
                                                                 Ms. MIRENDA. So thank you for the question. And we are a
                                                              Community Advantage lender as well. We have funded a little over
                                                              $2 million just this year in Community Advantage loans.
                                                                 The other thing is he mentioned management technical assist-
                                                              ance. Just so you guys know, that is a requirement on the Commu-
                                                              nity Advantage Loan program. So, we have to, every quarter, we
                                                              talk with our borrowers and discuss how their financials are going.
                                                              What does their P&L look like? What does their balance sheet look
                                                              like? Do they have any questions? Have they been able to hire any
                                                              folks? Things like that. So, I just wanted to bring that to your at-
                                                              tention.
                                                                 The other thing, too, as far as lenders go, a lot of our deals do
                                                              come from our bankers. They know about the CA loan program.
                                                              There are deals that they cannot do conventionally so they will
                                                              refer deals out to us, you know, for a startup and things like that.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. It takes an ecosystem. And I will yield
                                                              back and recognize our Ranking Member, Mr. Meuser, for 5 min-
                                                              utes.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, very much. Mr.
                                                              Flores, Ms. Mirenda, thanks for being with us, as well to other tes-
                                                              tifier. I appreciate it.
                                                                 So, I have to say, I like what I am hearing from my years in
                                                              business and working with small businesses and growing a small
                                                              business into a large business. You know, when you read things
                                                              such as I think it is barely 18 percent of small businesses seeking
                                                              loans or lines of credits, line of credit, actually get what they want
                                                              and what is sufficient. Having this SBA service and public-private
                                                              partnership that has worked with you folks is very important, so
                                                              I want to try to move through some questions relatively quickly if
                                                              we can.




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                                                                So, Ms. Mirenda, how many businesses do you work with?
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. How many businesses do we work with?
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Yes. How many loans do you extend? How many
                                                              businesses do you——
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. Last year we approved 61 loans.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Sixty-one.
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. Over the State of Florida.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. How about you, Mr. Flores?
                                                                Mr. FLORES. Our current portfolio is more than $430 million.
                                                              We right now are on pace to reach $150 million. So, $130, $150
                                                              million in loan originations in the 504 program.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. What is the average amounts? Ninety thousand?
                                                              One hundred thousand?
                                                                Mr. FLORES. For us in the 504 program, it is a loan amount of
                                                              about $800,000.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Eight hundred thousand.
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. That is about right. Eight hundred thousand.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Okay. My mistake. Okay. And how many do you
                                                              deny? How many come in that you deny?
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. A small amount. And the reason is because we
                                                              are usually getting referrals from our lending partners.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Okay.
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. They are well-trained on what works and what
                                                              does not.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. That is where most of them come——
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. So that is where a lot of our deals come from,
                                                              exactly, from banks and credit unions.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. So they clearly have other banking relationships?
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. Absolutely. Yes.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. For the most part?
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. Yes.
                                                                Mr. MEUSER. Okay. So, we talked about some struggles, of
                                                              course, that small businesses have—workforce, inflation, energy
                                                              costs, taxes. I just want to ask you, the idea that the 100 percent
                                                              depreciation may end at the end of this year which certainly needs
                                                              to be extended and the idea that a C corporation may go from 21
                                                              percent federal income tax to 28 percent is certainly not in the in-
                                                              terest of small business because, as you well know, there’s well
                                                              over a million small businesses that are C corporations. Many com-
                                                              panies that were family businesses way back and others for various
                                                              reasons are C corporations. C corporation does not mean that they
                                                              are a multi-billion dollar business.
                                                                So just relatively quickly, tell me what struggles you are seeing,
                                                              because you deal with small businesses every day, what are you
                                                              hearing from your clients?
                                                                Ms. MIRENDA. So a few things come to mind. The first one is
                                                              interest rates are starting to rise. Our 504 loan program in the last
                                                              6 to 8 months has risen 1 percent. Now, we are still under 4 per-
                                                              cent so it is still a very low rate. However, I think we got a little
                                                              spoiled with 3 percent interest rates. So, our rate is still a little
                                                              under 4 percent for 25 years. So, they are getting squeezed there.
                                                              I would also say employees are costing more money. Obviously, the
                                                              rate has gone up for hourly employees. I was just talking to a fran-
                                                              chise owner about 2 weeks ago regarding this and their cost of




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                                                              goods is going up. So, what happens is price then go up. So, what
                                                              we are seeing is they are having trouble finding people and they
                                                              are seeing interest rates going up, so they are really trying to lock
                                                              in interest rates which is why the 504 program is so advantageous
                                                              for small business owners because the commercial loan that they
                                                              partner with, we partner with on the first, they price that however
                                                              they would price a typical commercial loan. But the SBA thought
                                                              the portion that we finance, because it is a split loan, basically, is
                                                              fixed for 20 or 25 years. So that is why they are seeking out this
                                                              program.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Mr. Flores, you mentioned a word before
                                                              ‘‘stability.’’ I think any business would appreciate that thought and
                                                              that level of consistency. So why do you not expand? What are you
                                                              hearing from your clients?
                                                                 Mr. FLORES. So, inflation, labor shortages, and supply chain
                                                              constraints are big problems. And we need to understand there are
                                                              still a lot of business out there suffering, particularly in the hospi-
                                                              tality industry. So, when we think about opportunities to strength-
                                                              en programs that we know have a positive track record, at the min-
                                                              imum, we should work strengthening these programs.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. True.
                                                                 Mr. FLORES. And that stability and being able to count on some
                                                              support is critical. So, I am just going to use this opportunity to
                                                              say, looking at ways to making sure that 504 program is ade-
                                                              quately funded is critical.
                                                                 Mr. MEUSER. Okay. And that is very important. My time has
                                                              run out but I do want to hear from you if we have a second round,
                                                              or later, even in writing. You deal in the real world so any im-
                                                              provements—you started expanding on this, Ms. Mirenda, I would
                                                              love to hear more from you on that.
                                                                 So, I yield back. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The Ranking Member yields
                                                              back.
                                                                 And the Chair now recognizes Congresswoman Chu for 5 min-
                                                              utes.
                                                                 Ms. CHU. Mr. Doi, thank you for joining the Committee today
                                                              to share the incredible story of PACE for the congressional record.
                                                              Since you are an agency in Los Angeles, which is my area, I have
                                                              known of the incredible success of PACE for many, many years,
                                                              and I know how much you have done to help the most vulnerable
                                                              communities be able to become successful in small business.
                                                                 So, as we examine the work SBA did with the Paycheck Protec-
                                                              tion Program, I appreciate that this Committee is taking note of
                                                              PPP’s initial challenges in reaching the smallest businesses and
                                                              how the reliance on community lenders such as yourselves and
                                                              community development corporations helped bridge that gap. I
                                                              have long been a proponent of the Community Advantage program
                                                              which aims to serve many of the same underserved and micro busi-
                                                              nesses. One proposal I have long been working towards would be
                                                              to lift the loan cap that Community Advantage lenders could issue
                                                              from $250,000 to $350,000. Can you discuss the benefits of lifting
                                                              the cap on the types of businesses that you serve?
                                                                 Mr. DOI. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.




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                                                                 It would be of tremendous benefit. Hundreds of businesses come
                                                              to us every year. Many of them new entrepreneurs. We provide a
                                                              whole lot of business counseling to these small businesses prior to
                                                              offering them microloans, anything under $50,000. And as my testi-
                                                              mony indicated, it is averaging $10,000 loans. But as we continue
                                                              to work with them and help them grow where they learn business
                                                              basics, a business bootcamp, if you will, and they grow. Also, in my
                                                              written testimony I talked about one business that we provided a
                                                              $500,000 loan to that ended up hiring 20 employees. And so, lifting
                                                              the cap on the Community Advantage Program would help tremen-
                                                              dously as these types of businesses grow from being micro to reg-
                                                              ular bankable small businesses.
                                                                 Ms. CHU. Thank you for that.
                                                                 Mr. Doi, in your written testimony you alluded to work PACE
                                                              does in assisting refugees and those who sought asylum in the U.S.
                                                              I have heard so many inspirational stories of those that you have
                                                              helped who maybe did not have the credit history and all kinds of
                                                              circumstances that they face. In particular, your testimony tells the
                                                              story of my constituent, Don Wong. Because he was an asylee, Don
                                                              had limited business credit history so he was not able to get that
                                                              traditional loan, but PACE helped him secure the loan he needed
                                                              to purchase a new truck to begin his own trucking business from
                                                              the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, helping to relieve the
                                                              supply chain backlog that we are all experiencing in this country
                                                              today.
                                                                 With the nation’s attention on the needs of refugees, such as
                                                              those coming here from Afghanistan or Ukraine, Mr. Doi, can you
                                                              discuss the type of work PACE does in particular to assist refugees
                                                              starting their own businesses? What kind of impact does this work
                                                              have on the economy of the Los Angeles area?
                                                                 Mr. DOI. Thank you again for that question, Congresswoman.
                                                                 Yes. In working with asylees, as well as refugees, most of them
                                                              do not understand all of the culture, the nuances of America. And
                                                              so, we provide not only small business counseling, but social serv-
                                                              ices counseling also so that they understand the rules, the regula-
                                                              tions, business licensing, permits, reporting to IRS and accounting.
                                                              All of those kinds of things. And so, I want to reemphasize the
                                                              need for technical assistance. It is, indeed, important as we take
                                                              these people that for many reasons do not have the local work ex-
                                                              perience, do not have the local education, et cetera, but they do
                                                              have the entrepreneurial drive. And therefore, can put food on the
                                                              table and a roof over their heads. And so that is why this program
                                                              is so critical.
                                                                 Ms. CHU. Thank you. And I yield back.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back.
                                                                 The Chair now recognizes, Rep. Kim, Ranking Member of the
                                                              Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce De-
                                                              velopment.
                                                                 Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis, and Ranking
                                                              Member Meuser, for hosting this hearing. And I want to thank all
                                                              of our witnesses for joining us today.
                                                                 Over the last 5 years, one of the local CDCs serving my district,
                                                              the California 39th District, is CDC Small Business Finance. And
                                                              this has provided over 24 small businesses with financing over $34




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                                                              million and supporting 667 jobs. For this CDC, it is just a snapshot
                                                              of what successful private-public partnerships can do to deliver
                                                              much-needed capital to allow small businesses to expand and gen-
                                                              erate jobs in our communities.
                                                                 I have helped introduce a number of 504 bills, including the 504
                                                              Modernization and Manufacturing bill that Mr. Manny Flores men-
                                                              tioned today. This bill also includes several new policy goals for the
                                                              program, including workforce development, which we now know is
                                                              an ongoing issue for employers across the country.
                                                                 So, I want to ask you, Mr. Flores, what do you think, or can you
                                                              anticipate the type of benefit that would come from including work-
                                                              force development in the policy goals of the program?
                                                                 Mr. FLORES. Thank you, Madam Congresswoman.
                                                                 It sends a powerful message. It tells everybody who is applying
                                                              for a 504 loan who is working in the manufacturing sector that we
                                                              need to continue to focus on preparing a ready workforce that is
                                                              going to meet the demands of our dynamic marketplace today. Not
                                                              tomorrow, today. I often speak to a lot of businesses who are hav-
                                                              ing labor shortage issues. Oftentimes we hear that small busi-
                                                              nesses cannot find people to employ with the skills needed to meet
                                                              their needs. So, anything that we can do to promote workforce de-
                                                              velopment and training is a very positive thing to do and tying it
                                                              directly to a 504 program that is all about job creation makes a lot
                                                              of sense. So, we strongly support those efforts and I think it would
                                                              be very well received in the marketplace.
                                                                 Ms. YOUNG KIM. Right. We are working hard to pass that bill,
                                                              H.R. 1490, so thank you. I hope to see this stand into law quickly.
                                                                 And Ms. Mirenda, as you mentioned in your testimony, the CDC
                                                              industry is still awaiting the implementing the ALP Express Pilot
                                                              program. How has this delay implementing the pilot program im-
                                                              pacted the CDC industry and small businesses, and do you think
                                                              the SBA would benefit from the pilot program by getting loan proc-
                                                              esses off their plate?
                                                                 Ms. MIRENDA. Thank you for the question.
                                                                 Yes. It was passed in the Economic Aid Act in December of 2020,
                                                              and so we are still waiting on the implementation of the ruling.
                                                              And ALP Express, what that would do is that would allow us as
                                                              ALP lenders, which is Accredited Lender Program to unilaterally
                                                              approve SBA loans. And right now, SBA’s turnaround times are
                                                              very long. Just as far as 327 actions are concerned, 327 actions are
                                                              any changes made after an authorization is granted to us. And so,
                                                              any of those changes, they are taking up to 18 business days,
                                                              which is over 3 weeks. And so that is really affecting our small
                                                              business owners. That is where I think ALP Express would come
                                                              into play where we can unilaterally make decisions. And I am sure
                                                              we would be vetted by OCRAM, which they would come in and
                                                              audit us and audit our financials and the things that they do, but
                                                              that would be okay because we are proven CDCs.
                                                                 Ms. YOUNG KIM. And so let’s look at the 504 program with
                                                              tasking the premier economic development program at the SBA for
                                                              decades. And it really has made things strong bipartisanly
                                                              throughout the years. So, in your estimation, Ms. Mirenda, what
                                                              are the main drivers or hallmarks behind this continued bipartisan
                                                              effort?




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                                                                 Ms. MIRENDA. I would say the first thing is it operates on a
                                                              zero subsidy. I think that is important to both parties. Second is
                                                              we have a job creation goal. There is an economic job creation goal
                                                              or an economic impact that for every single 504 loan we do and the
                                                              default rate, I mean, default rate for 10 years is .6 percent. So, it
                                                              would be hard to argue on either side why the 504 loan program
                                                              is not advantageous for small business owners.
                                                                 Ms. YOUNG KIM. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being
                                                              here, again, and I yield back.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back.
                                                                 The Chair now recognizes Rep. Bourdeaux for 5 minutes.
                                                                 Ms. BOURDEAUX. Thank you, Chairwoman Davids, and Rank-
                                                              ing Member Meuser for holding today’s hearing.
                                                                 Community lenders are critical to expanding access to capital for
                                                              small businesses, in particularly those in undeserved markets, in-
                                                              cluding many in my congressional district. One of the clearest ex-
                                                              amples of this is the PPP program which showed how important
                                                              it is to support community-based lenders and the work that they
                                                              are doing every day.
                                                                 This is a question for Mr. Doi. I really appreciate the technical
                                                              assistance and outreach that you do to small businesses. And one
                                                              of the things that we found around the PPP loan program was that
                                                              a lot of our really, really small businesses did not know about the
                                                              loan and really needed a lot of proactive technical assistance. I
                                                              went and talked to them and it seemed like we almost needed to
                                                              go into their barber shop, into their restaurant, set up a laptop,
                                                              and walk them through the program because they just did not have
                                                              the lawyers and the accountants and all of that backing support.
                                                              All of their energy was being thrown into just trying to keep their
                                                              business up and running.
                                                                 And so, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about
                                                              technical assistance and what is needed in terms of a more
                                                              proactive effort to go out there and really support some of our
                                                              smallest of small businesses and make sure they can access things
                                                              like the PPP Loan Program or the Microloan program through the
                                                              SBA?
                                                                 Mr. DOI. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman. You
                                                              have pointed out a really big issue in the small business commu-
                                                              nity. And it is not only in LA.; it is throughout the country. In talk-
                                                              ing to our colleagues throughout the country that are involved in
                                                              entrepreneurial development and growing new start businesses es-
                                                              pecially, they do not know. And even the ones that have been in
                                                              existence for 5 years do not know about all the various products
                                                              and services that are available to them. What is important is that
                                                              as a community-based lender that we participate in the economic
                                                              ecosystem. That would include the chamber of commerces, the
                                                              banking associations, other economic development organizations.
                                                              And that helps to spread the word. And even doing so is not
                                                              enough. I mentioned the need for language access. We are proud
                                                              to be able to say that our organization speaks over 40 different lan-
                                                              guages and dialects which is highly unusual for any organization
                                                              throughout the country. Because so many of these people where
                                                              English is not their first language do not know anything about the
                                                              services that are available. And I also mentioned the president’s




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                                                              Executive Order mandating language access. And it is so critically
                                                              important but it is an unfunded mandate. And so, adjusting the
                                                              formula for technical assistance would really help, especially in
                                                              outreaching to those that have never heard of these kinds of serv-
                                                              ices before.
                                                                 Ms. BOURDEAUX. Thank you for that. And one of the commu-
                                                              nity projects I was very pleased to be able to get into the budget
                                                              was $100,000 for my Small Business Development Center to pro-
                                                              vide more in-language access. I have a very diverse community but
                                                              we have to kind of build our institutions to meet those needs. We
                                                              still are not in a place where an organization like yours is. It is
                                                              just taking us some time. We are much newer to that kind of diver-
                                                              sity so we are working on that.
                                                                 One other quick question. One of the programs we talk about an
                                                              awful lot is the microloan program and that seemed to be a really
                                                              good fit for some of these really first-time entrepreneurs. Do you
                                                              have any recommendations of how Congress could continue to im-
                                                              prove this program and expand access for these small, often immi-
                                                              grant-owned businesses?
                                                                 Mr. DOI. I do not like to be redundant but I do not think that
                                                              it hurts to continue to repeat that technical assistance is so impor-
                                                              tant, not only on the front end but on the back end. It is really an
                                                              important thing to have in-language business counseling, and so
                                                              that is why in our small business 101 workshops we do it in lan-
                                                              guage, in as many as eight different languages if necessary.
                                                                 Ms. BOURDEAUX. Thank you so much. And I really appreciate
                                                              the good work you do. I yield back.
                                                                 Mr. DOI. Thank you very much. Thank you.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back.
                                                                 The Chair now recognizes Rep. Van Duyne, the Ranking Member
                                                              on the Subcommittee of Oversight, Investigations, and Regulations.
                                                                 Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Davids
                                                              and Ranking Member Meuser for holding this hearing.
                                                                 Over the past 2 years, small businesses have faced seemingly
                                                              endless challenges to their overall survival. For months, we talked
                                                              about how ending the pandemic would return us to business as
                                                              usual but that is no longer the case. Months of stimulus and overly
                                                              generous unemployment benefits have resulted in excessive de-
                                                              mands, hobbled supply chains, and extremely tight labor markets.
                                                              And now small business owners are being forced to react to these
                                                              economic realities.
                                                                 The NFIB February Small Business Report found that 68 percent
                                                              of small businesses have raised prices and almost half cannot fill
                                                              staff positions as nominal wages rise at the fastest pace in decades.
                                                              The administration’s unsustainable relationship with spending
                                                              money we do not have has led us to the next new business crisis,
                                                              record high inflation, numbers we have not seen since the early
                                                              1980s. And in response, the FED and lenders have begun to raise
                                                              rates adding yet another cost increase to their thin margins.
                                                                 We would make one thing very clear today. Regardless of how
                                                              good SBA is at facilitating lending, that cannot make up for the
                                                              anti-growth environment created by this administration. The NFIB
                                                              report emphasizes this with zero percent of small business owners
                                                              reporting financing as their top issue while inflation, labor, and




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                                                              taxes top their concerns. Unfortunately, this administration ap-
                                                              pears not to have learned its lesson. Amidst our runaway inflation,
                                                              the president’s budget released yesterday included a more than
                                                              $1.1 trillion deficit next year and a $6.5 trillion deficit over the
                                                              next 5 years. It is time to reverse course and for this Congress to
                                                              emphasize fiscal responsibility by ending unnecessary spending,
                                                              clawing back fraud, and addressing actual pressing issues like the
                                                              Medicare Trust Fund that goes insolvent in 2026.
                                                                 I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony today and for
                                                              Ms. Mirenda, I appreciate your testimony. We have all seen and
                                                              read articles about the massive amount of fraud in SBA programs
                                                              over the last 2 years. NBC News just released a piece yesterday
                                                              claiming that the SBA’s PPP program is the ‘‘biggest fraud in a
                                                              generation.’’ And they said the SBA basically said to people apply
                                                              and sign. What did not happen was even minimal checks to make
                                                              sure that that money was getting to the right people. And now the
                                                              SBA wants to get into the direct lending business. Do you believe
                                                              the SBA can underwrite and service small business loans as effi-
                                                              ciently and as prudently as you do?
                                                                 Ms. MIRENDA. Thank you for your question. I do not think it
                                                              is a good idea for SBA to do direct lending. The reason for that is,
                                                              the reason our 504 program works so well is because we have a
                                                              dual underwriting process with a lender and there is a fiscal re-
                                                              sponsibility with the lender. And an example would be EIDL. I
                                                              mean, we were at dinner last night and a woman came up to us
                                                              about their EIDL loan and that is direct lending right now with
                                                              SBA. So, it is my professional opinion that, no, I do not think that
                                                              would be a wise decision. I think maintaining the 504 as my col-
                                                              league has pointed out, making sure this program stays open and
                                                              stays viable, the programs that are clearly working, that are part-
                                                              nership programs. Even the CA loan program that we facilitate is
                                                              working very, very well. So that would be my response.
                                                                 Ms. VAN DUYNE. Do you think that the relationship that you
                                                              have with your banking clients actually has led you to have less
                                                              fraud because you know actually who you are loaning money to and
                                                              you are able to actually put that due diligence in that the SBA has
                                                              not been able to do?
                                                                 Ms. MIRENDA. Yes. I think that partnership is imperative. I
                                                              mean, they are regulated as well, and so are we by the SBA. But,
                                                              yes. I mean, you mentioned PPP. The lenders did it really well and
                                                              I am not sure what group made CFIs but that worked really well,
                                                              too, community financial institutions that were doing the smaller
                                                              PPP loans as well. That was something that changed and I think
                                                              that the advantages as lenders are doing all their due diligence be-
                                                              cause they have to. They have to know their customer. They are
                                                              required to. So that is why this partnership works very, very well
                                                              in the 504.
                                                                 Ms. VAN DUYNE. I really appreciate your responses here today
                                                              and I yield back.
                                                                 Chairwoman DAVIDS. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back.
                                                                 The Chair now recognizes Rep. Donalds for 5 minutes.
                                                                 Mr. DONALDS. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to do
                                                              something we typically do not do. I am not going to use my full 5
                                                              minutes. I just wanted to actually recognize Ms. Mirenda from the




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                                                              great state of Florida. Thank you for all the hard work that you
                                                              are doing on behalf of small business owners.
                                                                And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
                                                                Chairwoman DAVIDS. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you
                                                              again to our witnesses for testifying today. I also want to thank
                                                              you for all of the work that you have done for American small busi-
                                                              nesses since the pandemic began. This has certainly been a really
                                                              rough few years. As we know, small businesses are the foundation
                                                              of the American economy. Getting our economy back to full
                                                              strength depends on the well-being of our small businesses. The
                                                              pandemic recovery is certainly going to take time but we know that
                                                              the recovery is going to be jeopardized if the smallest of our small
                                                              businesses are not being thought of.
                                                                Accessing capital is a primary concern of a lot of small busi-
                                                              nesses, and we have to strive to ensure that certainly underbanked
                                                              and underserved businesses have access to the funding that they
                                                              need to be able to succeed. And as the Paycheck Protection Pro-
                                                              gram demonstrated [audio malfunction].
                                                                [Whereupon, at 10:59 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]




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                                                                                                       APPENDIX




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