Back to School, Back to Startups: Supporting Youth Apprenticeship, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, September 15, 2022)
Summary
Transcript of the House Committee on Small Business Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development hearing Back to School, Back to Startups: Supporting Youth Apprenticeship, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development, convened September 15, 2022 during the 117th Congress, Second Session, published as Small Business Committee Document Number 117-066 (GPO 48-580). Subcommittee Chairman Jason Crow presided with Ranking Member Young Kim. Witnesses were Noel Ginsburg of CareerWise, Deborah Kobes of Jobs for the Future, Shani Watkins of West Sound Technical Skills Center, and Jared Ebbing for the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council, discussing how youth apprenticeship programs upskill workers and help small businesses meet staffing needs.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“Back to School, Back to Startups: Supporting Youth Apprenticeship, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, September 15, 2022).”
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BACK TO SCHOOL, BACK TO STARTUPS:
SUPPORTING YOUTH APPRENTICESHIP, ENTRE-
PRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE DEVELOP-
MENT
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION,
ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE
DEVELOPMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
HEARING HELD
SEPTEMBER 15, 2022
Small Business Committee Document Number 117–066
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
48–580 WASHINGTON : 2022
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
TROY CARTER, Louisiana
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
SCOTT PETERS, California
BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
YOUNG KIM, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
BYRON DONALDS, Florida
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
ELLEN HARRINGTON, Majority Deputy Staff Director
DAVID PLANNING, Staff Director
(II)
CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Jason Crow ...................................................................................................... 1
Hon. Young Kim ...................................................................................................... 2
WITNESSES
Mr. Noel Ginsburg, Founder & Chief Executive Officer, CareerWise, Denver,
CO .......................................................................................................................... 5
Ms. Deborah Kobes, Senior Director, Jobs for the Future (JFF), Washington,
DC .......................................................................................................................... 7
Ms. Shani Watkins, Director, West Sound Technical Skills Center, Bremerton
School District, Bremerton, WA .......................................................................... 9
Mr. Jared Ebbing, Economic Development Director for Mercer County, OH,
Mercer County, OH, testifying on behalf of the Small Business and Entre-
preneurship Council (SBE Council) .................................................................... 10
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Mr. Noel Ginsburg, Founder & Chief Executive Officer, CareerWise, Den-
ver, CO ........................................................................................................... 28
Ms. Deborah Kobes, Senior Director, Jobs for the Future (JFF), Wash-
ington, DC ..................................................................................................... 33
Ms. Shani Watkins, Director, West Sound Technical Skills Center, Brem-
erton School District, Bremerton, WA ......................................................... 46
Mr. Jared Ebbing, Economic Development Director for Mercer County,
OH, Mercer County, OH, testifying on behalf of the Small Business
and Entrepreneurship Council (SBE Council) ............................................ 52
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
Supporting materials following testimony of Deborah Kobes, Senior Direc-
tor, Jobs for the Future ................................................................................ 55
(III)
BACK TO SCHOOL, BACK TO STARTUPS:
SUPPORTING YOUTH APPRENTICESHIP,
ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE
DEVELOPMENT
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2022
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION, ENTREPRENEURSHIP,
AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jason Crow [chairman
of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Crow, Davids, Newman, Houlahan, Wil-
liams, Tenney, and Young Kim.
Chairman CROW. Good morning. I call this hearing to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
any time.
I would like to begin by noting some important requirements.
Standing House and Committee rules will continue to apply dur-
ing hybrid proceedings. All Members are reminded that they are
expected to adhere to these rules, including decorum.
House regulations require Members to be visible through a video
connection throughout the proceedings. So please keep your cam-
eras on.
Also, please remember to remain muted until you are recognized
to minimize background noise.
In the event a Member encounters technical issues that prevent
them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
next available Member of the same party. And I will recognize that
Member at the next appropriate time slot, provided they have re-
turned to the proceeding.
The COVID-19 pandemic upended the labor market like no other
event in recent times. The pandemic slowed immigration, legal im-
migration, to a crawl, sparked early retirements, and forced many
to exit the labor force due to factors like lack of childcare. These
effects combined to expand a longstanding and unprecedented labor
shortage that we are still working to overcome today.
As of July 2022, the total number of unemployed individuals is
roughly 5.9 million, while the number of job openings stood at 11.2
million. This gap in available workers has hit small firms the hard-
est. According to recent surveys, over half of American small busi-
(1)
2
nesses are concerned with hiring enough employees to fill open po-
sitions and overall employee retention.
Given the fundamental importance of small businesses to the
American economy, we must find ways to ease this labor shortage
and build a lasting pipeline of talent into these businesses.
One promising strategy is to bolster workforce development pro-
grams to attract young people to small firms. As the new school
year starts up, America’s youth are increasingly looking for alter-
natives to 4-year degrees, given high tuition costs and the prospect
of student loan debt. More than half of American adults agree that
college costs limit their ability to pursue secondary education.
The COVID crisis has also exacerbated this issue, as total enroll-
ment dropped by nearly 1.4 million between fall of 2019 and fall
of 2021. These figures show that America’s youth need more op-
tions beyond a standard 4-year degree.
Increasingly, young people are turning to youth apprenticeship
programs to gain valuable, real-world experience, in addition to the
instruction they receive in the classroom.
In 2022, roughly 214,000 people age 16 to 24 were in an appren-
ticeship. This is double the number of that demographic just a dec-
ade ago.
These apprenticeships have been proven to offer a wealth of ben-
efits to small firms beyond just attracting new talent.
In a study of 4,000 businesses that utilized youth apprentice-
ships, nearly 3 in 4 mentioned that it improved productivity, and
4 in 10 said it helped them secure new business. However, imple-
menting a costly apprenticeship program can be daunting for small
firms with tight margins.
Today I would like us to explore ways Congress can make youth
apprenticeship programs and other workforce development tools
more accessible for small businesses.
Programs like CareerWise, which was originally started in Colo-
rado, have successfully spread the youth apprenticeship model to
cities across America and expanded into a range of new industries.
I want to take a closer look at the successes of CareerWise and
other programs like it and identify ways the federal government
can help more small firms utilize apprenticeships to attract talent.
Expanding youth apprenticeships and other types of career and
technical education can provide young people with a comparable al-
ternative to a 4-year university education, while bolstering the
small business labor force.
I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mrs. Kim, for
her opening statement.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
As Members of the Small Business Committee, we hear directly
from small business owners and their employees on a regular basis
on the challenges they face right now. They include ongoing infla-
tionary pressures, consistent supply chain issues, burdensome reg-
ulations, and workforce shortages. The inability to find workers
have led owners to make business adjustments to account for those
ongoing staffing shortages.
As Chair noted, the federal government’s Job Openings and
Labor Turnover Summary reported that they indicate there is
about 11.2 million job openings at the end of July and 4.2 million
3
workers left their jobs in the same month. And a recent survey re-
ported 86 percent of small business owners said it was more dif-
ficult to find and retain employees compared with 3 months ago.
So small businesses, as we know, they do not only need to fill
those open positions, but they also need to fill qualified and skilled
workers. And, in August, 63 percent of small businesses reported
hiring or trying to hire employees, and an astounding 91 percent
of those small employers report hiring or trying to hire—reported
that they have few or no qualified applicants for those open posi-
tions.
So this skills gap has been a growing issue for businesses and
the economy, and it is time to rethink how to expand opportunities
for individuals often left out by traditional recruiting approaches.
So that brings us to our conversation today where we will exam-
ine how apprenticeships and career and technical educational pro-
grams can help these workforce issues.
Many small firms have turned to on-the-job apprenticeships to
fill those openings, and one success story I want to share with you
today is located in Orange County, the company that I visited often
and worked closely, Veteran Air. Veteran Air is a veteran-owned
small business serving my district, and they utilize an apprentice-
ship program with all new employees. And their employees are
paid full time while they train to become certified HVAC techni-
cians.
Veteran Air serves as an example of small businesses utilizing
apprenticeships and creating opportunities aligned with local work-
force needs. And I am very proud to have toured, visited this Vet-
eran Air’s Anaheim facility, and I met with so many of their work-
ers and employees. And I tell you they don’t just work at Veteran
Air, but they are actively participating, encouraging their employ-
ees to get involved and give back to their communities.
And that is the type of partnership that we want to see. These
are the type of small businesses also that we must empower and
support in our local communities. Apprenticeships and career de-
velopment programs are not a new concept. But, in this changing
economy, they can help small firms reach untapped talent and
focus on the new potential and invest in solving job shortages.
So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. And I
hope to work with my colleagues to address these skills gaps, pro-
mote career and technical educational opportunities, and encourage
apprenticeships.
Thank you.
And I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mrs. Kim.
The gentlelady yields back.
I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing will
proceed.
Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide a statement, and
each committee Member will have 5 minutes for questions. Please
ensure that your microphone is on when you begin speaking, and
then you return it to mute when finished.
With that, I would like to introduce our first witness. And we
will go through all of them, and then we will start with the time
for each.
4
But our first witness is going to be Mr. Noel Ginsburg, founder
and CEO of CareerWise USA. Throughout his career, Noel has
stood out as an entrepreneur and nonprofit leader committed to
serving his community. He founded his first business, Intertech
Plastics, while in his senior year at University of Denver. Go Pio-
neers. Now it employees nearly 200 people at two facilities in Den-
ver, Colorado.
In 2016, Noel founded CareerWise Colorado, a nonprofit designed
to create opportunities for students and businesses across the State
by developing innovative and sustainable youth apprenticeship pro-
grams. CareerWise has now expanded across the country to New
York City, Washington, D.C., Indiana, Buffalo, and Michigan.
Last year he was appointed to the Secretary of Labor’s Advisory
Committee on Apprenticeship.
Thank you for being here, Mr. Ginsburg. I look forward to your
testimony.
Our next witness is Ms. Deborah Kobes—am I pronouncing that
right? Thank you—senior director at Jobs for the Future, JFF, and
the interim director of the Center for Apprenticeship and Work-
Based Learning.
For over a decade, Ms. Kobes has been managing projects to de-
velop innovative new training and education models and to build
capacity for programs—for program delivery among a range of or-
ganizations. She seeks to create career pathways primarily for
underrepresented populations, like women and people of color, in
high-demand areas of the economy.
Before joining JFF, Ms. Kobes held research positions at MIT,
the Brookings Institution, and the Urban Institute.
Thank you, Ms. Kobes, for being here today. We look forward to
your testimony.
Our third witness is Ms. Shani Watkins. Ms. Watkins serves as
the director of the West Sound Technical Skills Center in Brem-
erton, Washington.
For 25 years, she has worked in both secondary and postsec-
ondary education and found her passion working in career and
technical education. Ms. Watkins is active in her local community,
serving as a Member of the local Lions Club. She is also active in
her local regional and national associations for career and technical
education, currently serving as the regional vice president of that
organization. Last December she was awarded with the ACTE Na-
tional Administrator of the Year award.
Congratulations.
Ms. WATKINS. Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Watkins. We look forward to
hearing your testimony.
I will now yield to the Ranking Member to introduce our final
witness.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
Our fourth witness is Mr. Jared Ebbing. He is the director of
Mercer County Community and Economic Development. He is testi-
fying today on behalf of the Small Business and Entrepreneurship
Council, also known as the SBE Council.
As Community and Economic Development director, Mr. Ebbing
works with Mercer County and its citizens to plan for future
5
projects and to find the funding necessary to complete them. Addi-
tionally, he works with local school districts to ensure every stu-
dent has the knowledge and awareness of the many career opportu-
nities that exist in the area.
To accomplish this, he created hometownopportunity.com as a
critical tool for the region’s workforce development efforts. Mr. Ebb-
ing works closely with local companies throughout the county to
ensure local businesses possess the tools and the workers necessary
to grow within the region.
I know Mr. Ebbing’s experience working with small businesses
and vast knowledge of workforce development programs will be ex-
tremely beneficial to this hearing and our conversation today.
So, Mr. Ebbing, thank you for taking the time to testify before
us today. Thank you for joining.
And thank you, all witnesses, for being with us.
Chairman CROW. Yes. Thank you all for joining us today.
Mr. Ginsburg, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF NOEL GINSBURG, FOUNDER & CHIEF EXECU-
TIVE OFFICER, CAREERWISE, DENVER, CO; DEBORAH
KOBES, SENIOR DIRECTOR, JOBS FOR THE FUTURE (JFF),
WASHINGTON, D.C.; SHANI WATKINS, DIRECTOR, WEST
SOUND TECHNICAL SKILLS CENTER, BREMERTON SCHOOL
DISTRICT, BREMERTON, WA; AND JARED EBBING, ECO-
NOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR FOR MERCER COUNTY,
OH, MERCER COUNTY, OH, TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF THE
SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP COUNCIL (SBE
COUNCIL).
STATEMENT OF NOEL GINSBURG
Mr. GINSBURG. Thank you, Chairman Crow and Ranking Mem-
ber Young Kim, for giving all of us the opportunity to speak about
something which I believe can be transformational for our edu-
cation and workforce system and, in so doing, drive opportunity for
small and large businesses, but particularly small, to build a work-
force that will catapult them into the future.
What I would like to start with is why I—where I started. When
I founded my company, while in college, what I realized quickly is
that, to be successful, talent would be the core of our success, who
we could bring in, who I would surround myself with.
And, when I couldn’t find that talent, I went to the schools, as-
suming naively that it was their fault that I didn’t have the talent.
But, rather than pointing a finger, I showed up at the front door
of Montbello High School and said, how can I help? And that began
what has been a 35-, 38-year partnership, because what I realized
is the missing piece is industry, not to stand on the outside as advi-
sors or critics, but to be partners in workforce development.
The second reason I did this is, over 30 years ago, my wife and
I sponsored 42 inner city youth through the ‘‘I Have a Dream’’
Foundation. We made a 10-year commitment that would culminate
in providing a college scholarship for each one, but in that neigh-
borhood, 90 percent were dropping out of high school. So our chal-
lenge was to change that outcome. Ten years later, we graduated
over 90 percent of our young people.
6
And that sent me on a journey to find a solution that would not
just serve 42 or a city or a State or maybe even a country. And it
led me, because I was Chairing the College and Career Pathways
Council at Denver public schools, to Switzerland to learn about a
system where, like the U.S., 27 percent of their population will get
a 4-year degree. Unlike the U.S., 70 percent will take on an ap-
prenticeship and not just in advanced manufacturing or the trades,
but banking, finance, insurance. And it is a ROI-based system. It
is transformational for the youth and transformational for the busi-
nesses.
So, with the inspiration from that, I came back to Colorado and
formed CareerWise with an intention of building a system, not a
program, that can be that transformational. How it works: In the
junior year, an apprentice will spend 3 days in the classroom and
2 days in a business in a paid apprenticeship, not looking over
someone’s shoulder but learning real skills in a whole host of occu-
pations.
In their senior year, they will spend 2 days in the classroom and
3 days in business. And they will get all of their high school credit.
For some, they will earn college credit as a part of their apprentice-
ship.
And then, in the third year, they will work either full or part
time, depending on postsecondary options.
Then, at the end, the hope is to get a job with the training com-
pany.
And so what are we seeing? We have young people now that are
graduating from their apprenticeship earning between $40,000 and
as high as $75,000 right out of high school. Our completing appren-
tices are transformational for the businesses that they work for
and for the future of their own careers.
Congressman Crow, you mentioned places where in the country.
On Monday, I was in New York where the CEO Jobs Council,
founded by the Chairman of J.P. Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon,
made a commitment, along with David Banks, their chancellor, and
Julie Sweet from Accenture, to hire 3,000 apprentices over the next
3 years in a whole host of occupations from banking to finance,
both large and small business. That represents 135 million in
wages and training that will go to these young people while they
in high school. It will change their lives because we have seen that
with our apprentices to this day.
The impact of youth apprenticeship is multiples. It defines youth
apprenticeship early on in a young person’s career as an options
multiplier, not a dead end. And it can lead. You can start with the
apprenticeship and end with a Ph.D. it reinforces that there is
equal dignity in multiple career paths. College is not the only
proxy. We need better ways to finance it, and many of our appren-
tices are getting their education paid for through the tuition reim-
bursement that these companies provide.
It serves young people from marginalized communities in a way
that is powerful. There is a cement ceiling over many of our young
people in this country. Youth apprenticeship, starting in high
school, is like a cement drill, really building opportunity for them
that is unmatched. For some apprentices that choose to continue
7
with a 2- or 4-year degree, it has the potential to reduce the finan-
cial burden as a result.
So my point here is this can be a transformational opportunity—
it is for many young people today—but only if it is much more than
a program. With your help and your guidance and the questions
that you will ask, hopefully we can move our country forward.
Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Ginsburg.
Ms. Kobes, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF DEBORAH KOBES
Ms. KOBES. Thank you.
Good morning, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young Kim,
and other Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for inviting
me to testify today about the value and potential of apprenticeship
for America’s youth and in development of the nation’s talent pipe-
line.
My name is Deborah Kobes. I am a senior director at Jobs for
the Future, and I lead our Center for Apprenticeship and Work-
Based Learning.
JFF works to transform America’s workforce and education sys-
tems to achieve equitable economic advancement for all. Appren-
ticeship and work-based learning have the power to connect young
people to high-demand, high-quality jobs, and they offer small busi-
nesses a grow-your-own talent solution.
The good news is that youth apprenticeship is growing. JFF just
released an analysis that shows that the number of youth below
the age of 25 registering as apprentices has more than doubled be-
tween 2010 and 2020, which significantly outpaces the growth of
Registered Apprenticeship overall. These youth apprentices earned
an average wage of $31 an hour, which far exceeds the average
wage for young workers.
Youth apprenticeship has become more accessible to more popu-
lations, with female and Latinx representation increasing through-
out the decade.
While progress has been made, disparities continue. Nearly 90
percent of youth apprentices are male, and almost two-thirds are
white. Male youth apprentices earn nearly twice as much as
women, and White apprentices earned about $7 more per hour
than Black apprentices. These data show the need to continue to
explicitly address diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility in
Registered Apprenticeship and youth apprenticeship.
Employers are central to youth apprenticeship. They hire the ap-
prentices. They supervise the on-the-job learning. In exchange for
their participation, employers benefit from recruiting talent, align-
ing education and training with company needs, and building a
loyal workforce.
Yet small businesses face a range of challenges in participating
in youth apprenticeship. Many express concerns about liability
issues and insurance costs of youth employment, which vary by
state and by industry.
Establishing a work schedule that accommodates state require-
ments for school seat time and attendance, as well as navigating
other K-12 and postsecondary requirements, can be difficult. And
8
identifying and managing the multiple sources of public funding for
apprenticeship can be confusing and time-consuming, particularly
for small businesses who are unfamiliar with the funding sources.
Yet, while it is especially important for small businesses to en-
gage in youth apprenticeship, this can be an expensive proposition
upfront.
To drive the expansion of high-quality youth apprenticeship pro-
grams, JFF recommends that Congress build on the National Ap-
prenticeship Act to define youth apprenticeship as a Registered Ap-
prenticeship program specifically designed for serving youth ages
16 to 24, whether in or out of school.
Congress should incentivize States to align their education and
workforce systems and update K-12 policies, such as seat time re-
quirements, in ways that encourage engagement in and expansion
of youth apprenticeship.
We also urge policies that encourage the development of high-
quality work-based learning opportunities as part of core academic
as well as career and technical education programs. To drive diver-
sity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility in youth apprenticeship, we
recommend that Congress refocus investments on completion and
wage equity.
We recommend providing flexible funding that supports pre-ap-
prenticeship, inclusive outreach and recruitment, accessible class-
room instruction, robust mentorship, and apprenticeship navigators
to guide young people through their program.
Youth apprentices also need supportive services to address bar-
riers that are just the cost of training materials and testing fees;
access to technology and the internet, especially in the age of
COVID; and transportation to school and work, which often have
to happen in the same day.
We recommend that Congress support employers in providing in-
clusive workplaces, facilitating the creation of training, funding,
and support to small businesses to increase their capacity to adopt
these best practices.
To increase small business participation in youth apprenticeship,
JFF recommends investing in intermediaries, particularly local and
industry organizations, to convene employers and stakeholders, as
well as to reduce the programmatic and administrative burdens of
delivering youth apprenticeships.
Similarly, Congress can support sector strategies that convene
employers to build career pathways and regional talent pipelines
while incentivizing youth apprenticeship as a featured strategy
within those sector partnerships.
Congress can assist small businesses in accessing information
and training to navigate the differing state youth employment
laws, as well as the multiple streams of public funding available.
In parallel, Congress can encourage greater investment in youth
apprenticeship by stakeholders administering eligible funding, such
as WIOA, Pell Grants, and the emerging infrastructure and CHIPS
grant.
Thank you again for the opportunity share this testimony. I ap-
preciate the Committee’s longstanding interest in apprenticeship,
and I look forward to supporting your efforts to facilitate the use
of youth apprenticeship among small businesses.
9
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Kobes.
Ms. Watkins, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF SHANI WATKINS
Ms. WATKINS. Good morning, Chairman Crow and Ranking
Member Young Kim, Members of the committee. Thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss this important
issue.
My name is Shani Watkins, and I am the director of West Sound
Technical Skills Center in Bremerton, Washington. I also serve as
the Region V vice president for the Association for Career and
Technical Education, known as ACTE, and am the 2022 ACTE Ad-
ministrator of the Year.
West Sound Technical Skills Center provides advanced career
and technical education, or CTE programs, to 10 school districts
across the Kitsap Peninsula. It provides increased equity and ac-
cess for students in small, rural areas, as well as larger suburban
areas. It serves more than 500 students in their junior and senior
years of high school.
Students spend half their day at West Sound Tech and the other
half of their day at their sending school. We offer 13 programs
across areas such as IT, automotive, construction, HVAC,
healthcare, law and public safety, and more.
CTE programs like the ones offered at my school engage students
through hands-on active learning and prepare them with the skills
they need for both further education and fulfilling careers in vital
in-demand industries and occupations.
At West Sound Tech, we have a variety of partnerships with
local businesses, including small business, to provide important rel-
evant learning and learning, paid work opportunities for our stu-
dents to better prepare for life after high school. This morning I
would like to share with you a few examples of these partnerships.
Each year, West Sound Tech holds a try-a-trade day where our
industry partners bring their tools and equipment to our local fair-
grounds so that students from grades 9-12 can experience firsthand
what different careers offer. We also hold an on-site event for stu-
dents called the West Sound Tech Works. This is a 2-day event
where our local business and industry partners come to share their
experiences and knowledge with students. Students attend sessions
and participate in different workshops provided by our industry
partners.
In addition, West Sound Tech holds an evening event called Ex-
plore Your Future with community partners including business and
industry, local support services, 2-year and 4-year colleges, appren-
ticeship programs, and the military. In total, more than 65 dif-
ferent partners hold booths with information for families about op-
portunities and pathways after high school. Typically we have more
than 500 students and families in attendance at that event.
Each spring, we also hold a practice interviewing event for stu-
dents with business and industry partners from the student’s spe-
cific content area.
In another partnership example, the Puget Sound Naval Ship-
yard supports an annual work-study program, hiring up to 30 stu-
dents during the summer between their junior and senior years.
10
These students are provided an hourly wage and benefits, while
participating in work and training situations at different shops lo-
cated throughout the shipyard. Students learn key safety require-
ments, use various hand and power tools, and acquire the funda-
mental knowledge and skills necessary to work in an industrial en-
vironment.
At the end of the summer, students return to school for their
first semester of their senior year. Then, during the second semes-
ter of their senior year, the students again work full time in the
shipyard. Often the work-study experience leads to a future career
for those students. Once hired after high school, candidates qualify
to enter various apprenticeship programs offered at the shipyard.
This model could be replicated with other small businesses to
better support workforce needs and experiences for students to pre-
pare for living-wage careers.
As in the shipyard partnership, West Sound Tech has a long his-
tory of preparing students to enter into apprenticeship program
after high school. Both our construction careers and welding
courses have pre-apprenticeship articulations with the Laborers
and Iron Workers Union respectively.
Students meet all requirements for entry into the apprenticeship
programs while they are at West Sound Tech. For example, stu-
dents in the construction program learn all of the physical require-
ments for entry, complete the minimum math requirements, and
obtain relevant certifications.
Despite our strong partnerships and work-based learning oppor-
tunities, barriers exist for our students. The cost of programs,
transportation, the needs of low-income students for paid work ex-
perience, and the lack of capacity in small businesses are all chal-
lenges we grapple with regularly.
Increased federal funding for programs like the Carl D. Perkins
Career and Technical Education Act and apprenticeships, the ex-
pansion of youth and pre-apprenticeship activities, incentives for
small businesses to partner with educational institutions, and tar-
geted investments in paid work-based learning experiences, and
student certifications can all help to address these challenges.
In conclusion, stronger partnerships between small business and
secondary schools will help to increase a segment of the economy
that is currently experiencing significant challenges in finding a
ready workforce. Students engaged in CTE programs are better
prepared in the workforce, less likely to need significant students
loans, and are more likely to have the skills and credentials to
meet workplace needs.
Thank you, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young Kim, and
Committee for this opportunity today.
I look forward to answering any questions you may have.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Watkins.
Mr. Ebbing, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JARED EBBING
Mr. EBBING. Thank you, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member
Young Kim, and the distinguished Members of the Subcommittee.
Again, my name is Jared Ebbing. I am the Community and Eco-
nomic Development Director here in Mercer County, Ohio.
11
Mercer County is a rural county in west-central Ohio which is
along the Ohio and Indiana border. We are part of a region of Ohio
that is known for its small, homegrown companies involved in ev-
erything from advanced manufacturing to ag to food processing.
My office works with our many local companies to ensure that
they have the personnel necessary to continue to grow their busi-
nesses and invest in our area.
The vast majority of the jobs created here in Mercer County can
be attributed to small businesses. While we do have a couple of na-
tionally known, larger corporations, most of our companies started
right here years ago in somebody’s basement, garage, or out-
building with just a handful of workers. The entrepreneurial spirit
here has always been alive and well in this region because people
just know how to make things and have never really been afraid
of the hard work needed to make it happen.
While these businesses haven’t really asked for anything more
than our local support in their efforts to grow and expand, they
now are most certainly worried about the sustainability of their
workforce in the future.
COVID-19 and its impact created an unprecedented new set of
challenges for businesses. While larger corporations adjusted, uti-
lizing remote work as an option, many of our smaller manufactur-
ers had a hard time managing, training, and thus, developing their
future workforce as a result of the pandemic.
Additionally, the Great Resignation, supply chain issues, in-
creased raw material costs, and now hyper wage inflation have all
compounded their issues, making it very difficult for our small
businesses to manage their operations.
As such, we hear from our companies every day that say that,
even though there is work there, they are struggling to complete
it due to the various open positions that they have. So many of
these unfilled positions are middle-skill jobs, meaning they require
a high school diploma and some form of postsecondary education
but not necessarily always a traditional 4-year college degree.
As a result, companies are indeed looking at apprenticeships and
any other on-the-job training programs that could help. In order to
make this happen, ongoing collaboration among our stakeholders at
every level is vital to identify best practices and implement
impactful programs. I would like share one such example of a pro-
gram that we have implemented to great success.
Hometownopportunity.com is an online-based resource simply
aimed at increasing the awareness of our many local, great careers
that exist in our area to our students and to our families. Our com-
panies are most certainly in need of our local talent, who all too
often do not realize that these great opportunities exist right here
in their own backyard.
Furthermore, we are utilizing this resource to make meaningful
connections between our emerging workforce and the companies
hoping to hire and thus train them.
We focus our efforts on first making sure students are aware of
what our local companies do, what skills are needed, and what op-
portunities truly exist.
Properly educating our students on the myriad of options and op-
portunities to them may sound simple, but it is actually surpris-
12
ingly difficult when teenagers’ attentions and interests aren’t nec-
essarily on their future. We have all been there.
Through these career navigation tools, new career-based cur-
riculum within our schools, and the hiring of countywide career
coaches, an appreciable increase in the awareness among our
young people is finally occurring.
With such awareness and newfound interest, students are enroll-
ing in job shadow opportunities, along with pre-apprenticeship pro-
grams, which eventually lead to full apprenticeships programs at
our local companies. It is a long process, but once students are
aware of what is here, it is so much easier to introduce them to
the necessary training that combines on-the-job paid experiences
with their classroom learning.
Although we feel very good about our local initiatives that we
have implemented to date, more resources, ideas, and support
would help. A national push for career development courses within
our schools is needed. Similar support was given to the successful
implementation of STEM-based classes across the country over the
past decade, resulting in more young people becoming interested in
science and math.
Encouraging our classrooms nationwide to increase and offer
more meaningful awareness and guidance curriculum, such as
CareerWise and Edge Factor, would most certainly have a positive
impact on our nation’s youth. Additionally, an expansion of federal
programs, such as Apprenticeship USA and Pell grants for tech-
nical education, would also help our emerging workforce become
better trained for the careers of the future.
Now more than ever we need to find ways to enhance the work-
force development initiatives and programs that work. We must
continue to support the business organizations and nonprofits who
train, advocate, and bring entrepreneurs together, work with our
educators to ensure we are not just graduating students from
school but to an actual meaningful career, engage with organiza-
tions, such as the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council,
U.S. Chamber, and Small Business Administration to come up with
new ideas, resources, and innovative policy solutions.
Doing so will empower small businesses and thus, our commu-
nities to succeed long term by investing in our greatest asset: our
people.
In closing, thank you to the Subcommittee for the opportunity to
testify today and for advocating and making policies that support
small businesses across this great country of ours.
Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Ebbing.
I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. I would like to
start with you, Mr. Ginsburg. You had mentioned, you know, years
ago, when you first looked towards Switzerland and Europe that al-
ready had these well established and very successful programs. I
would be interested in what you learned as you tried to replicate
or use elements of that model here in the United States, starting
in Denver and in Colorado, both with respect to resistance that you
may have faced, cultural resistance or other structural resistance
to implementing and expanding these models but also just the bar-
13
riers, both with businesses and in the education system, that you
faced.
Mr. GINSBURG. Thank you, Chairman Crow. Big questions.
What I will tell you, what impressed me about their system is that
it was market based, meaning that they didn’t create apprentice-
ships if the jobs didn’t exist. So, as industries grew and shrank, at
least a young person would have the opportunity to know what
their opportunities would be post apprenticeship.
Second is that their model scales so that 70 percent of young peo-
ple take advantage of it and 40 percent of businesses participate
because there is a true return on investment to the business. They
do not subsidize the wages. Their education system is virtually
free, much more so than it is here, so the related training is not
as expensive, and there needs to be investments. But that is a pow-
erful driver to scale.
Now, when you bring that to the U.S., what we have learned is,
when the U.S. built its road system in the country, our highway
system, you needed the roads, you needed the off-ramps, the on-
ramps, everything that made traffic flow and commerce flow. Youth
apprenticeship in particular is not something that is intuitive for
a business to think there is an ROI for. Plus, they don’t have the
tools they need to be successful.
So building those tools for them, creating the connections with
the high schools so that it could be successful, and to drive the
ROI, which is what I observed overseas, is that, if a young person
is still living at home and is making $15 an hour, up to $45,000
over the 3 years of their apprenticeship, the company is investing
in them. As I mentioned, our employers in Colorado have invested
over $45 million in wages and training dollars, but there is a—it
is not an expense in the sense of a donation. It is an investment
in their workforce.
So the challenges ahead, particularly in a registered system,
which I think is critical to ensure that, if you are doing business
in 50 States or 2 States or 3, you are not doing business in dif-
ferent ways. The registered system, it is part of my role at the ACA
is to make it simpler and more streamlined for businesses and
more business responsive. In schools, in 50 States, we have, in es-
sence, 50 different ways to do it. When seat time is a requirement,
as it is in New York, for example, it is very difficult for an appren-
tice to spend time in a workplace.
Now, we are hacking the system on a small scale right now. In
Colorado, we have a competency-based system. So our students are
earning credit for the learning that takes place in the workplace.
We need more of that across the country. Those are some of the
challenges.
With employers, it is about setting up the system. Intermediaries
are critical. In Switzerland, for example, industry associations
drive their system. They are not ways to lobby Congress or the
local Senate. It is, in essence, to build their future workforce, and
as a result, a very small country competes with companies like the
U.S. because of the quality of their workforce.
Chairman CROW. Thank you for that.
Ms. Kobes, you had mentioned the need to invest in inter-
mediaries. Can you just briefly describe for us, you know, what do
14
you see as the most effective intermediary models that you have
worked with?
Ms. KOBES. Absolutely. And I will pick up on some of what Noel
was saying about intermediaries as well. You know, JFF is a na-
tional intermediary, so I don’t want to undermine our value here.
But, to your question, I think there is a real need to invest in local
intermediaries and industry associations because that is who small
businesses are already working with. So, to get the word out to
small businesses, to give them a partner that they trust in really
launching a program, having, you know, local chambers, local busi-
ness associations within a specific industry, that is a place that you
already have an in with small businesses.
And then those intermediaries can bring together the employers
to find what their common skills and competency needs are, design
a program, broker the relationships with the education and train-
ing providers, and then even step in to help with the administra-
tion of the program in an ongoing basis.
So, a lot of small businesses, you know, might be put off by the
paperwork or not sure, you know, what they are fully signing up
for in administering a program, and they can find it easier to really
enter the space if their role is to be the employer, not to hold to-
gether the whole apprenticeship program and all of the different
relationships required.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. My time has expired.
The Ranking Member, Ms. Kim, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
I really appreciate all of our witnesses focusing on youth appren-
ticeship. It is critically important. And, in my district, we have sev-
eral high schools that are in the IB program and then they are also
providing technical programs, like one high school in my district is,
you know, Troy High School, and they provide not only the IB but
Troy tech programs through which they encourage their students
to take 150 hours of internship, and they do get credit for their
graduation requirements.
And both—I mean, all of you spoke about the need to make this,
as Mr., you know, Ginsburg, you mentioned, you don’t want this to
be just a program, but you want this to be a transformational sys-
tem.
And, you know, Ms. Watkins, Ms. Kobes, you all talked about
utilizing the intermediaries, and the Chairman also asked through
your question how we can replicate this through nationwide efforts
so that it could become a system, not just a program at one school
or at one district.
So what are some of the challenges that you face, Mr. Ginsburg,
as you make this CareerWise a, you know, successful program?
When you work with the local school districts, presenting this idea
to provide the students with the credits, what kind of challenges,
if any, did you face in making this idea into a credit offered sys-
tem?
Mr. GINSBURG. I assumed when I first learned about this ap-
proach at ETH University in Switzerland, that our biggest obstacle
would be the schools. How do you take a young person out of class
for both 2 days a week and then 3 days a week and then earn their
credit? In the room with me in the delegation was the head of cur-
15
riculum at Denver public schools, and she said simply: I can do
that.
And we now have 17 school districts that do that.
So the challenge, frankly, is not the schools directly; it is in how
they schedule. If you have blocked schedules, as some districts do
that we—in other States that we work with, it is difficult to let a
student out. So, you know, changing those policies and scheduling
to enable it is one way to address that problem.
The real challenge, honestly, is scale with business. They need
the support, which intermediaries provide, to give them the tools,
the training, and the technology to successfully launch a youth ap-
prenticeship program, and youth is important. The statistics that
you were sharing earlier go up to 24.
Doing this while students are skill in school, I believe, is key, is
the bridge to opportunity and the systemic change that we need.
And the numbers that we are seeing at CareerWise are much more
balanced, both in male and female, with over indexing on
marginalized communities in terms of the outcomes in those stu-
dents that are being hired.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you.
I want to address the next questions to Mr. Ebbing, who is join-
ing us virtually. You know, in your testimony, you talk about rais-
ing awareness of the opportunities that exist for youth apprentice-
ships and career development courses in high schools. I mean, that
is what everybody is talking about, but specifically through your
hometown opportunity. So can you please elaborate on that and
talk about that resource as well as other ways that you are raising
awareness for those programs, and can you cite some of the exam-
ples?
Mr. EBBING. Yeah, most certainly. Appreciate it. Appreciate the
question. Yeah, you know, so, when I first got into this role, it was
just startling at how many young people and their families just
didn’t know, you know. They went through high school; they would
go through the traditional route and would graduate and just didn’t
know either what was here or what training programs even ex-
isted. So they just kind of followed the beaten down path of what
had always been, and what has always been isn’t what is today
and what is the future for our companies and what they need, and
what the training options that are truly out there.
So we realized early on, you know, all these programs that could
and would exist aren’t going to make an impact if people aren’t—
if students aren’t aware of what they need to be, you know, aware
of. So we kind of just started with that simple process of creating,
you know, relationships with our schools and our companies to
make sure the schools, the guidance counselors, the teachers all
knew what these opportunities were and, again, created this plat-
form that really helps connect the dots, you know, create that cur-
riculum, create that content that students, you know, can say: Oh,
I didn’t know this was an option for me.
And, just in the last 10 years since we have been doing it, I
mean, the number of young people that are—you know, 10 years
ago were just simply just straight going off to college, which there
is nothing wrong with that, but just simply doing it in college, I
16
would say 90 percent of our students were going down that path.
Now I would say it is closer to probably 50/50.
Many more young people are going into the career-based fields.
Our career high schools are filling up. Like I said, at least 50 per-
cent of the students are now going that direction. And many, many
more are enrolling in pre-apprenticeship programs and then ap-
prenticeship programs.
So, to us, it really starts with awareness and making sure that
students at a very—at early age as possible, understand what is
here and start to direct them into what programs could be—if we
do that right, I think more and more students will take advantage
of these programs and will most certainly benefit the companies be-
cause they have somebody that, you know, truly wants to be there
and understands why—you know, why they are going in that direc-
tion, so——
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you.
I will yield back. We are over time.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady’s time has expired.
I will now recognize the gentlelady, Ms. Davids from Kansas, the
Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and
Capital Access, for 5 minutes.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Chairman Crow, and to Ranking Mem-
ber Young Kim for holding this hearing today.
You know, in the Kansas Third and across the country, we are
definitely seeing serious workforce shortages in every sector, and it
has, I think, been especially challenging for small businesses. And,
you know, as we continue to invest in our youth and workforce de-
velopment programs, I know we are hearing from you all about
some of the better ways for us to be able to do that.
This is going to be the way that we build a stronger and more
resilient economy, and that includes young people, us encouraging
the work you are doing and encouraging young people to go into
and explore entrepreneurship and apprenticeships.
And that is why I was really, really proud to help introduce the
21st Century Entrepreneurship Act with my fellow Committee
Member Rep. Dean Phillips. And, for folks who aren’t familiar with
this bill, our bill would require the SBA to develop an entrepre-
neurship curriculum for the 21st Century Learning Centers, which
provide additional educational opportunities and resources to typi-
cally underserved students, which we have heard you all make ref-
erence to in your work. This curriculum will be developed and im-
plemented using the partnership with local volunteers from
SCORE, which is the Service Corps of Retired Executives.
So I wanted to—Ms. Kobes, in your written testimony, you did
recommend expanding youth entrepreneurship opportunities in
conjunction with youth apprenticeship. I am curious, if you could
share with us, though, how the legislation like the 21st century en-
trepreneurship bill could help do that, and then maybe talk a little
bit about the ways that entrepreneurship and apprenticeships can
go hand in hand.
Ms. KOBES. Yeah, I will start with the last part of your ques-
tion, which I think youth apprenticeship and entrepreneurship ac-
tually go together quite well. So I appreciate that question, and I
think small businesses are a place where you see that juncture.
17
So, if you think about a student who hasn’t really explored entre-
preneurship before, being in a small business is a setting where
they are more likely to see all of the different aspects that you need
to really operate a business. So, through what you think of as, you
know, the more traditional parts of a youth apprenticeship, a stu-
dent would learn the technical skills that they need in the industry
that they are focused on.
And so they could learn—I think you mentioned HVAC. You
know, they could learn their HVAC skills or, you know, their insur-
ance skills or whatever. But then, being in a small business, they
will actually see much more upfront and closely than they would
in a large business what it actually takes to make all of the back-
end decisions to run that business, to market the business, you
know, the different partners that you would need to be engaged
with, and the people that they are learning from would bring that
broader range of skills and exposure. And so that value of a small
business for students who are really considering entrepreneurship
is a great pairing.
In terms of, you know, how specific legislation can support entre-
preneurship, I can follow up with you in writing. JFF has thoughts
on that that go beyond my thoughts for this morning, so I can put
that in the record for you as a follow-up.
Ms. DAVIDS. Oh, that would be great. And one of the most dis-
appointing parts about these is we only get 5 minutes on—espe-
cially when they are very interesting hearings likes the one today.
Mr. Ginsburg, I actually do have a specific question for you, but
I saw a lot of head nodding while your fellow witness was speak-
ing. Do you want to add anything to that first question? And then
I will follow up. I actually have questions for everybody on the
panel.
Mr. GINSBURG. Well, I would certainly say ditto. That is why
I was shaking my head. Everything you said is so right on. And
we are now in the second year of a pilot working just with Black-
owned businesses in inner city Denver, which tend to be very
small. There might only be two or three employees, but now they
have an apprentice. And for all the reasons you said, these young
people are getting to see the entire business. It is what I did when
I started Intertech with 12 employees. I learned everything.
So apprenticeship works particularly well for small businesses
because the economics works well, and people like working with
young people and seeing them grow and expand. So more to come
in terms of the evidence, but what I know from the evidence we
have so far with Black and Brown students in our programs is they
take advantage of this more so than White students, frankly, be-
cause the narrative of ‘‘I am going to college’’ still exists. So, for
marginalized communities, this is a real game changer and ulti-
mately can make college more affordable if they choose.
Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you. And we will definitely follow up. I
would love to hear more about the pilot program. Chairman, I yield
back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. And we will have a chance to go
for a second round if we want to as well. The gentlelady yields
back.
18
I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams, the
Vice Ranking Member of the Committee for 5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
Ranking Member Young Kim, for bringing everybody here.
And thank you for the panelists. It is a great panel.
Just to begin with, I am from Texas. I employ 700 people down
there as we speak. I think we got six apprentices working for us
this morning. But I would like to start off by addressing the recent
announcement we have had of another month of staggering high
inflation.
And, for over a year, American families and businesses have
been put under increased financial stress due to increasing prices.
And Tuesday’s consumer price index reading of 8.2 percent showed
that inflation is still painfully high, causing more uncertainty for
small business owners on main street.
A recent survey by the NFIB found that 86 percent of the busi-
ness owners reported having to raise their average selling prices
due to Biden’s skyrocketing inflation. And I am in the car business,
and it is not easy to raise prices on customers. These constant ris-
ing prices are not sustainable. We must keep reckless government
spending and begin to get more disciplined with our finances, just
as every business and family across the country is forced to do.
So, Mr. Ebbing, briefly, can you elaborate on how increased
prices have altered operations for the businesses you work with,
and how does this affect their ability to plan for future growth op-
portunities? If you can do that fairly quickly.
Mr. EBBING. Yeah. Everything you said we do here on a daily
basis. They have to make ends meet, and they are reluctant to in-
crease their pricing because they don’t want to lose, you know, po-
tential business, but at the same time they have to. And, on top
of that, you know, the hyper wage inflation that they are experi-
encing, they are being forced to do more with less.
So it is very challenging. You know, obviously the workforce
piece of it is a huge piece of the puzzle that we need to try to help
solve because there is a lot of other things going on right now,
again, including increased prices that they are having to deal with
every single day. We hear it every day.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yeah. As I said, I have been in the car business
now for 51 years, an 89-year-old family business. We have hun-
dreds of people. And I know firsthand that we are always in need
of more mechanics, technicians, other critical skilled workers.
I was secretary of state of Texas before I was in Congress, and
one of the stories I like to tell is that we lost a billion-dollar im-
provement in Texas on the coast, Governor Perry and myself. We
had locked it in, were going to sign it next week, and I get a call
in, and they decide to go to Minnesota. And, if you are from Texas,
Minnesota is not a factor. But they are going to Minnesota simply
for one thing: Minnesota had welders. And I always tell that story
because this is a good example of what we are talking about.
So I know about the need of these skilled workers, and our coun-
try is facing a growing skills gap, as we have talked about, as
younger generations are not joining the vocational workforce at a
high enough rate. We have 100,000 kids every year dropping out
of school in the ninth grade in Texas. That is 100,000 every year,
19
and we need to let them know it is okay to be a welder, plumber,
carpenter, mechanic, and so forth, and you all are doing that.
And so it is not necessary for a high school student to always at-
tend a 4-year college. I think we have seen that. But a 4-year de-
gree is not for everyone. So we need to ensure students know that
there are other higher demand opportunities that provide them
with a good-paying job, successful career. And we know the jobs
what they can get when they get out, right. Everybody thinks law-
yer, business guy, architect, or whatever, but lots of times—many
times there is more out there for these paying jobs than is in other
areas.
And that is why I introduced the Student Debt Alternative and
CTE Awareness Act—check it out—which informs high school stu-
dents about career and technical education opportunities before
they commit to a traditional 4-year university and take out student
loans. Of course, they may not have to pay the student loans back,
but at least they have that in front of them. Instead of forcing stu-
dents into years of debt, this ensures that high school seniors know
what their viable options are.
So, Ms. Watkins, how can we encourage more students to pursue
CTE, and how is your center ensuring that high school students
are made aware of the CTE programs and continue to stay in-
volved?
Ms. WATKINS. That is an excellent question. I think we are
often what we consider the best-kept secret in our area. In terms
of recruiting and marketing and supporting students, a huge part
of that goes back to what parents understand and what our typical
rhetoric has been, which is college for all, which is great if that is
the direction you want to go. If you have interest and opportunity
in other areas, such as welding—for example, I have a 16-year-old
son who has decided he wants to be a welder, and he is going to
work in Louisiana. So it is giving them an opportunity to see their
aspirations and to try things out when they are younger. And so
I think a big part of this goes back to exposing students at younger
ages to a variety of careers that go beyond what is typically ad-
dressed in an academic environment.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Go ahead. I am sorry.
Ms. WATKINS. Oh, that is okay.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I was going to say, in closing, there is no
reason a kid in the ninth grade should lose hope——
Ms. WATKINS. No.
Mr. WILLIAMS.—in this country. And that is why it is impor-
tant what you are doing and what my bill does and others. We
have to keep—the greatest workforce in the world is right here in
America.
Ms. WATKINS. Absolutely.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield my time
back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you.
The gentleman yields back.
I will now recognize the gentlelady from New York, Ms. Tenney,
for 5 minutes.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member.
20
And thank you to the witnesses for this great Committee discus-
sion because I am a small business owner that is always looking
to try to find people to work in our business and to work with our
community partners. And, you know, we hear a lot about this labor
shortage. It is the number one thing I hear on the campaign trail
from employers is how do we get people to come to work, how do
we get them trained and skilled.
And we are advertising for the first time extensively instead of
having a waiting list for employees, which is really unusual for our
business. We are in a rural area where we could provide a lot of
benefits that most businesses don’t, except the government, but we
compete against the government for great employees.
But, you know, this is great that we are trying to find students
younger and get them into things. And, you know, the tight labor
market obviously is great for students—or great for young people
and great for people to get—you know, to drive up the wages, get
better benefits. We know what that is like because we are in a
rural area, so we have always experienced the tight labor market.
And it gives the employees an advantage to be able to take care
of their families.
One of the issues that arise for us that I am looking at is we can-
not find candidates really who have the experience, so this is really
why it is so important. And this is not good for workers who are
not able to take advantage of these job opportunities and what em-
ployers are looking for and needing the staff. We have always tried
to bridge gaps with—a lot of our salespeople are very clever. They
know how to—you can work with the local BOCES and get, you
know, an apprentice to come in and help. And that is one of the
things that I think that we need to rebalance, how the government
responds to this tension and without getting in the way of the em-
ployers but providing a resource.
And, you know, we obviously have a lot of immigrants that are
coming in, which are wonderful in our farm communities and espe-
cially helping us, but we also have foreign labor that are being
incentivized to come in and take jobs from others. And this some-
times can be a disincentive through some of our small businesses
who really just want to hire, as my colleague from Texas pointed
out.
We have great educational institutions in my region. I just want
to mention our BOCES again. They are phenomenal with the work
that they do. Herkimer College, Mohawk Valley Community Col-
lege in my area, the community colleges, and generally the system
in New York are doing a wonderful job, and they provide this
hands-on training and extra training and high-tech training. Yes-
terday we talked about right to repair and getting people to be able
to learn how to fix things again, and that is a big issue.
But right now the answer to this—what I am concerned about
with this tight labor market is also—one thing I wanted to just
bring up, and I know it is—I am using up a lot of my time that
I want to ask a couple of you questions—is that one of my greatest
experiences as a Member of the New York State Assembly was an
inner city group came in, young students who said they were for
keeping the minimum wage the same because if the minimum
wage went up, there would be less of them who would be able to
21
engage in summer programs. So I just want to mention there was
a lot of interesting aspects of teaching students about the economy
and economic issues.
But I first want to just draw my attention to Mr. Ginsburg. And
you wrote about how many enterprise employees have effective
training programs but have difficulty in recruiting young people.
What is the problem with recruiting young people? And I have this
question burning in my mind: Why aren’t they coming out to work,
and how do we get them out to work and understand the value and
dignity of good work?
Mr. GINSBURG. I don’t think that it is—well, thank you for the
question. It is not because they don’t want to work; it is they don’t
know what the opportunities are. What is unique about youth ap-
prenticeship that starts in high school and does career exploration
in middle school is they then have an idea of what they might be
interested in.
The second part of that though is—and as an employer, I tried
for many years to make those connections, but until CareerWise
working as that intermediary, we didn’t have the connection to the
schools to help the students explore what it is their interests are,
to be exposed to the different career options, and what the com-
pensation looks like——
Ms. TENNEY. So you are saying the schools aren’t even talking
about this?
Mr. GINSBURG. They are not connected to the businesses until
now. It is not that they didn’t want businesses to share that infor-
mation. Businesses were not showing up. We have created an op-
portunity——
Ms. TENNEY. So career day and job fairs and all the things that
we host as Members of Congress?
Mr. GINSBURG. Very episodic.
Ms. TENNEY. Yeah.
Mr. GINSBURG. Not systemic.
Ms. TENNEY. Okay.
Mr. GINSBURG. And the systemic component—we have—in our
tech platform, it enables employers to see the apprentices, see what
their resume is essentially, have a video of that young person ex-
plaining their interests and why, and it makes those connections.
Ms. TENNEY. Quickly, because I want to ask you this though,
what are the—in manufacturing, what are the toughest jobs to fill?
I only have a few seconds left.
Mr. GINSBURG. All of the technical skills.
Ms. TENNEY. All of them.
Mr. GINSBURG. I will tell you that we have an apprentice who
designed, engineered, and built and programmed automation cells
that enabled us to bring product back from China, over $5 million
worth of product back from China. And he was a high school stu-
dent when he did that. He is now earning $70,000. The difference
was we connected with the schools, in this case Cherry Creek
School District, and made the opportunity available for him. It has
changed his life.
Ms. TENNEY. That is tremendous. Thank you so much. I yield
my time back. Thank you.
Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
22
I am going to take an opportunity to do one more quick round
here because I know there is some more questions, and if you all
had some more, I will loop back with you.
But I wanted to flesh out—so I will recognize myself for another
5 minutes—with Ms. Watkins, because one thing that you touched
on at the beginning, and you have touched on a couple of points,
because we have talked a lot about systematic issues in the school
districts and the education issue, systematic issues within the busi-
ness system, but I really want to drive on the students, the appren-
tices themselves, right. And you touched on in your opening testi-
mony the idea of some barriers that they face, whether it is trans-
portation, whether it is childcare.
So, in CTE and the shipyards and the areas in Bremerton where
you do business, like what are some of those barriers that the indi-
viduals are facing, and what are you seeing as effective to breaking
down those barriers?
Ms. WATKINS. Thank you for the question. So I would say, first
of all, transportation is a huge challenge for particularly our loca-
tion. We are very rural. We have students that travel an hour and
a half one way each day to participate in CTE programs with us
because they are not offered in their areas. And those students
have less access to viable careers in their industries locally, so
transportation for them to do an apprenticeship program or to have
a work-based learning experience is more challenging. So transpor-
tation is a huge issue.
The other thing that happens with a lot of our students is that
they come from poverty. We have a lot of students that have to
support their own families, and so that creates a barrier when in-
ternship opportunities, work-based learning opportunities are
nonpaid; they have to make a decision between finding a job versus
finding an opportunity for that career. So that is two of the big
ones for us.
Chairman CROW. Thank you for that, and I appreciate it.
I will now yield to the Ranking Member, Mrs. Kim, for 5 min-
utes.
Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you very much. I am really glad that
we held up the hearing as long as we could so we can have Member
Houlahan join us because I know you always engage our witnesses
with great questions. So I am glad you are here.
And I know on our side we have some Members who want to ask
questions. But, rather than asking a question, I just, again, wanted
to reiterate my special thanks for all of you being here to share
your expertise on how the youth engagement, youth apprentice-
ship, the programs that you are, you know, implementing is really
working.
And I am really glad to hear, Ms. Watkins, to hear that your 16-
year-old son is engaged in welding and becoming a certified welder.
That will surely prepare him for the job market that is out there.
But the challenges that we talked about is also, even when we
have hearings like this, we have great, you know, Members of the
small business community that we wanted to bring and share their
experience as well, just like you are doing. But the challenge is
they can’t be here because they can’t take the time off because they
23
are small businesses. How do they backfill if they leave their oper-
ation?
So those are the challenges of meeting the labor force, you know,
the shortages. So I just wanted to echo the difficulties, the chal-
lenges, the workforce development that we need to focus on, train-
ing, retaining, the quality labor force; these are the challenges. So
it is really important.
And, Chairman, I really want to thank you for your leadership
for us holding these type of hearings. More and more, it is needed.
But obviously we want to be able to do more roundtable type of dis-
cussions so that we can listen to more real life expertise, meeting
with those challenges by telling us what we can do better so we can
help build that workforce and fill the gap and all that stuff.
So I just wanted to thank you again and share that we under-
stand what you are facing. We appreciate the information you are
sharing, and we will go to work in making sure that youth appren-
ticeship, for example, as Mr. Ginsburg and all of you mentioned,
that it is not just a program, but we can help to make it a trans-
formational system that works.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you.
The gentlelady yields back.
I will now recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms.
Houlahan, for 5 minutes.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you so
much for the chance to speak. And sorry for being tardy. I am try-
ing to straddle three different committees today at the very same
time slot. But my heart is very much with small businesses. I am
an entrepreneur myself, and I am grateful for the opportunity to
sit with you today.
Thank you again for your testimonies.
There is definitely going to be a generation of youth that will be
on the forefront of addressing the emerging challenges that we are
all facing collectively today. Because these challenges will inevi-
tably require innovative, technical, and advanced solutions, the
benefits of youth apprenticeship and—of CTE can’t be underesti-
mated especially amid our workforce issues that are impacting
businesses on account of the pandemic.
So I am hopeful that today’s youth will be able to benefit from
the recent action that has been taken in Congress to address some
of our nation’s most pressing issues, including the passage of the
bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, the bipartisan
CHIPS and Science Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act.
It is really critical that our nation’s youth and small business
owners will be able to access the vital workforce development re-
sources that we have provided in light of these once-of-a-generation
investments and the millions of jobs that we hope that they will
be able to create.
My first question is to Ms.—is it Kobes?
Ms. KOBES. Kobes.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Kobes, apologize. You mentioned in your testi-
mony that recipients of these new federal resources will require as-
sistance to be able to learn about apprenticeships and connect to
appropriate stakeholders. Could you please elaborate on what this
24
Committee and what Congress in general can be doing to make
sure that small businesses can tap into the public funding that is
available for youth apprenticeship?
Ms. KOBES. Yes. Thank you for the question. And I think that
ties into the earlier questions around inflation and how our econ-
omy is affecting individuals as well. It is certainly true that the
economy has affected small businesses in a very serious way. It is
also exacerbating the challenges faced by the rising inequality in
our country, and individuals who are left out of economic oppor-
tunity are facing those consequences even more severely during in-
flation. And, you know, the investments made through the bills
that you mentioned really create an opportunity to invest in our
workforce.
And I have seen—my husband even works for a manufacturing
company in batteries, and they were applying for, you know, a new
grant, and it includes now, you know, an equity plan around job
quality, around workforce development. And he came to me and he
said: Who should we be talking to?
You know, they are in Colorado as well and expanding into other
locations. But they don’t have the background to know these are
the workforce development agencies that we can work with; these
are the schools that could provide us talented solutions; you know,
these are the intermediaries even that we should be tapping into.
And so what you have now is funding that is going out to more
businesses, to, you know, state agencies, transportation agencies,
all of these different opportunities that build in workforce as a core
strategy to actually succeed through these grants. But they are not
workforce people, and so you really do need a way to get the word
out to all of those potential grantees so they can navigate the new
workforce incentives that are built within the grant opportunities.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Does anybody have anything else to add? I
have another question I would love to ask as well, but, Mr. Gins-
burg, you look eager.
Mr. GINSBURG. What I would say is, in order to scale this, how
we connect with business, at CareerWise we say we are student
centered but business driven, that that connection in educating
businesses on how this impacts their bottom line in a positive way,
how it fills that early pipeline of talent that is essential is part of
it, and those intermediaries are essential to make it easier for
them until it becomes systemic.
And we need our colleges, our community colleges. Our CTE pro-
grams are powerfully effective, but it—right now it is a fragmented
system. It needs to be a holistic system. So driving investments to
bring those people together and to ensure that business voice is at
the center because, if it won’t, they won’t do it. And that is a trag-
edy for them and our young people and ultimately our country.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, could I ask a sec-
ond question? I just want to make sure I don’t run out of time.
Chairman CROW. Yeah.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Perfect. Thank you.
I also would like very much to focus on the importance of youth
workforce development with regard to STEM and STEAM. Very,
very excited that my community is actively investing in initiatives
that would be able to prepare our youth for valuable and needed
25
STEM careers with the development of new STEM high school
academies in places like Reading, Pennsylvania, that have been
funded by federal COVID aid, as well as West Chester University’s
new sciences and engineering center.
To, Mr. Ebbing, who I believe is on the screen, similar to my
community in Pennsylvania’s Sixth District, you mentioned that
local schools in your area are establishing new career-based cur-
ricula. Can you please describe how these developments benefit
local communities across our country as well as student success
and career readiness?
Mr. EBBING. Yes. Thank you very much for the question. Yeah,
it has been a game changer for us. We have been layering career
connection curriculum in at the freshman and sophomore year al-
ready in with the STEAM curriculum so that they not only become
interested in STEM and STEAM and all that goes with it but how
the careers, you know, relate to those courses.
So, to us, it has been a game changer in the sense of just truly
layering in that information at an early age. So every freshman
will take the class. A lot of sophomores will take it to, again, learn
not just about the class work but how it relates to the real world.
And we bring companies in to educate them on what this class
work means to them as a company.
And it just sows the seeds, you know, of awareness and con-
necting the dots that, when the students become juniors and sen-
iors, whether or not they want to go into career technical education
or straight into a pre-apprenticeship program, now they are armed
with that information of truly understanding what this class means
to the real world and the careers. So layering it in, we believe, is
very important as part of that education model in their early high
school years.
Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. I appreciate all of your time, and
I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you.
The gentlelady yields back.
I will now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams, for
5 minutes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Chairman.
And I just made a few notes here. You know, one thing we—and
I am sure you are involved with them too. I represent Fort Hood,
large military base in America. We have got a lot of soldiers that
are transitioning out, that need some assistance. And I hope some-
how they are included in your program too because a lot of them
are 20, 21, 22 years old. They are disciplined. They know how to
work. And they need a job, and they are pretty good. So that is a
big, I think, opportunity for us to do that.
And I think also a lot of these kids today don’t have the back-
ground we had from the fact that you go to work and, hey, if you
make money, that is good. Profits are really good and so forth.
They don’t hear that so much anymore. They almost hear the oppo-
site. They hear that $15 minimum wage is a career. It is not a ca-
reer. Okay. They need to think bigger than that. Drawing unem-
ployment is not a career. Okay. They need to—bringing a payroll
check home is pretty good. And I think they have to fight with that
all the time.
26
And then they hear about, well, that you can borrow money, and
it will be written off; you don’t have to pay it back. Then they hear
back that this—like the student loans, they don’t have to pay their
car notes for various reasons. They have got forbearance on their
apartments. I mean, it sets a bad tone for a mind that wants to
work and get after it. We need to be much more positive towards
these kids and show them how to make a living. They don’t need
all this.
And, at the end of the day, from a small business owner stand-
point, we need to cut taxes. We need to quit raising taxes and talk-
ing about it, cut taxes so I have extra money that I can go out—
instead of having six apprentices, I can go have 16 apprentices. So
that is kind of the things we need to do.
And so I would just say real quick, Ms. Watkins, and we have
talked about this, but I want to hear what you have to say about
the opportunity, what steps can a business owner like mine—I em-
ploy over—almost 300 people—what can I do to establish connec-
tions with CTE programs and recent graduates? You know, I told
you, we have got a bill; we would tell them: Hey, there is oppor-
tunity out there.
But how can I do that?
Ms. WATKINS. That is a great question. So I think, first of all,
going back to the Swiss model or the German model, one of the key
things is that it is like a stool with three prongs. It has government
support. It has business support. And it has the school support.
And I think small businesses, in particular, helping us reach out
to you and you reaching back to us. I think there is opportunity
as simple as reaching out and saying: Hey, I need employees that
can do these things.
We have an automotive program right now, and right across the
street from our center is the Haselwood Group, and the Haselwood
Group is an automotive group that is next to us. So they actually
work with bringing our students in just to see what their shops
look like now because the parents’ shop days of what it looked like
in an automotive shop is not what it looks like today. So getting
them involved and into and interested in that way also I think is
really critical.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, you are right. I mean, I get back to my
business, and these kids are electricians. They are not mechanics,
you know, or you used to call them wrenches. And these are smart
kids.
Ms. WATKINS. Absolutely.
Mr. WILLIAMS. And they really, really do well, and it is—shops
are cleaner. Just a great opportunity for them. And we need them
bad. We need body people. We them in body shops; we need them
badly, that can fix these cars and so forth.
So, anyway, look, we get political here a lot. Most of the time we
are. I have already been political in my statements today. But, at
the end of the day, what you all are doing is great, and it is going
to—my business is a third-generation business. Now my kids run
it. And they have got to be able to have a workforce to continue
the business and so forth. And we have got to make tax cuts per-
manent so we make more money because what we don’t have—
what people are saying about businesses like mine and yours, that
27
if we make money, we don’t save it; we spend it, and we invest,
and we give opportunities.
So thank you for being here. I yield—yes, sir, Mr. Ginsburg.
Mr. GINSBURG. Well, something you said resonates with me in
that the jobs that you create in your shop pay really well. But, in
this country, if we say there is only one path to opportunity and
that is a 4-year degree, then there is something less than in a job
in your shop or in my company. And it shouldn’t be. There should
be equal dignity in any path that you choose that leads to a career
that puts a roof over your head, a car in the garage, and oppor-
tunity for your children. And business holds the key to that.
And I just want to emphasize that, when we talk about the fu-
ture, it is not just one pathway to opportunity in this country any-
more. That ends up with trillions of debt, noncompleters in our 4-
year system, and business without the talent they need.
Mr. WILLIAMS. I mean, you talk about dignity, I can tell you,
we had a cold snap in Texas, and those plumbers and those weld-
ers were called, and nobody asked them, what are you going to
charge me when you get out here? So they—but you are right. A
job is a job. A job in America is the greatest job. I yield back.
Chairman CROW. Thank you.
The gentleman yields back.
Thank you to our witnesses, again, for joining us today. The pan-
demic inflicted a deep shock on the American labor force, and as
we continue to work back toward normalcy, workforce development
programs can help boost our pool of qualified workers, provide
young people with the education and skills they need to launch
their careers.
Although I will say, some people say ‘‘return back to normal,’’
and we are not ever going to return back to the normal as it used
to be because things are changing. The workforce is evolving. The
future is looking different, and it should because I think, as you all
mentioned, there are greater opportunities for our young people
that we have to pursue for them.
We have seen the power of youth apprenticeship programs in
providing that and the ability to upskill workers and to help small
businesses meet their staffing needs. So I think there is consensus
that embracing this model and others like it, we can make these
programs more accessible to young people and small businesses
alike. So I look forward to working with the Committee Members
to pursue policies that will help achieve this goal.
Without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to submit
statements and supporting materials for the record.
And, if there is no further business to come before the Com-
mittee, without objection, we are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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