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The Rent Is Still Due: America’s Renters, COVID-19, and an Unprecedented Eviction Crisis, Virtual Hearing

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The printed record of a June 10, 2020 virtual hearing, "The Rent Is Still Due: America's Renters, COVID-19, and an Unprecedented Eviction Crisis," before the Subcommittee on Housing, Community Development, and Insurance of the House Committee on Financial Services, Serial No. 116–94. Chairman Wm. Lacy Clay presided; the witnesses were executive directors of the Louisiana Fair Housing Action Center and Up for Growth Action and fellows of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Brookings Institution. Chairman Clay cites an Urban Institute estimate of $96 billion for 6 months of rental assistance, and he and Chairwoman Waters point to $100 billion for emergency rental assistance in the HEROES Act. Ranking Member Stivers discusses the CARES Act forbearance provisions. The contents list prepared statements and material submitted for the record.

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“The Rent Is Still Due: America’s Renters, COVID-19, and an Unprecedented Eviction Crisis, Virtual Hearing.” Original at www.govinfo.gov. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/43-emergency-rental-assistance-the-rent-is-still-due-america-s-renters-43e89e830f/, SHA-256 8670b2b78689f53ba5e391e7f19b04fe743e788e39151c532e4203261a6ddf85.

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                                                        THE RENT IS STILL DUE: AMERICA’S
                                                           RENTERS, COVID-19, AND AN
                                                         UNPRECEDENTED EVICTION CRISIS


                                                             VIRTUAL HEARING
                                                                                  BEFORE THE

                                                             SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING,
                                                              COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT,
                                                                  AND INSURANCE
                                                                                     OF THE


                                           COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
                                            U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
                                                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
                                                                                SECOND SESSION



                                                                                 JUNE 10, 2020


                                                    Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services



                                                                      Serial No. 116–94



                                                                                    (

                                                                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                                            42–894 PDF                          WASHINGTON : 2021




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                                                          HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
                                                                   MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman

                                      CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York                           PATRICK MCHENRY, North Carolina,
                                      NYDIA M. VELÁZQUEZ, New York                            Ranking Member
                                      BRAD SHERMAN, California                               ANN WAGNER, Missouri
                                      GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York                             FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
                                      WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri                                BILL POSEY, Florida
                                      DAVID SCOTT, Georgia                                   BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
                                      AL GREEN, Texas                                        BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
                                      EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri                              STEVE STIVERS, Ohio
                                      ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado                                ANDY BARR, Kentucky
                                      JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut                              SCOTT TIPTON, Colorado
                                      BILL FOSTER, Illinois                                  ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                                      JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio                                     FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
                                      DENNY HECK, Washington                                 TOM EMMER, Minnesota
                                      JUAN VARGAS, California                                LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
                                      JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey                            BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
                                      VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas                                ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
                                      AL LAWSON, Florida                                     WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
                                      MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam                              TED BUDD, North Carolina
                                      RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan                                DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
                                      KATIE PORTER, California                               TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
                                      CINDY AXNE, Iowa                                       ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
                                      SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                                  JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
                                      AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts                         BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
                                      BEN MCADAMS, Utah                                      LANCE GOODEN, Texas
                                      ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York                     DENVER RIGGLEMAN, Virginia
                                      JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia                              WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
                                      STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts                        VAN TAYLOR, Texas
                                      TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
                                      ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina
                                      MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
                                      JESÚS ‘‘CHUY’’ GARCIA, Illinois
                                      SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
                                      DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota


                                                                      CHARLA OUERTATANI, Staff Director




                                                                                          (II)




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                                                               SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING, COMMUNITY
                                                                   DEVELOPMENT, AND INSURANCE
                                                                    WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri, Chairman

                                      NYDIA M. VELÁZQUEZ, New York                       STEVE STIVERS, Ohio, Ranking Member
                                      EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri                           BILL POSEY, Florida
                                      BRAD SHERMAN, California                            BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
                                      JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio                                  BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
                                      AL GREEN, Texas                                     SCOTT TIPTON, Colorado
                                      VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas                             LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
                                      CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York                        DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
                                      DENNY HECK, Washington                              JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
                                      JUAN VARGAS, California                             BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
                                      AL LAWSON, Florida                                  LANCE GOODEN, Texas, Vice Ranking
                                      RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan                               Member
                                      CINDY AXNE, Iowa
                                      MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam




                                                                                      (III)




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                                                                                    CONTENTS

                                                                                                                                                                  Page
                                      Hearing held on:
                                         June 10, 2020 ....................................................................................................         1
                                      Appendix:
                                         June 10, 2020 ....................................................................................................        37

                                                                                            WITNESSES

                                                                                 WEDNESDAY, JUNE 10, 2020
                                      Hill, Cashauna, Executive Director, Louisiana Fair Housing Action Center
                                        (LaFHAC) ..............................................................................................................     4
                                      Kingsella, Mike, Executive Director, Up for Growth Action ................................                                    6
                                      Oliva, Ann, Visiting Senior Fellow, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities .....                                              8
                                      Schuetz, Jenny, Fellow, Brookings Institution ......................................................                         10

                                                                                             APPENDIX
                                      Prepared statements:
                                          Hill, Cashauna ..................................................................................................        38
                                          Kingsella, Mike .................................................................................................        45
                                          Oliva, Ann .........................................................................................................     59
                                          Schuetz, Jenny ..................................................................................................        71

                                                              ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
                                      Clay, Hon. Wm. Lacy:
                                          Written statement of the Credit Union National Association ......................                                        77
                                          Written statement of the National Association of REALTORS ....................                                           79
                                          Written statement of the Private Equity Stakeholder Project .....................                                        81
                                          Real Estate Coalition Letter ............................................................................               124
                                          Written statement of the Real Estate Roundtable ........................................                                128
                                      Heck, Hon. Denny:
                                          Letter from various undersigned organizations .............................................                             137
                                      Stivers, Hon. Steve:
                                          Written statement of the International Council of Shopping Centers .........                                            154
                                          Written statement of the National Multifamily Housing Council and the
                                            National Apartment Association ..................................................................                     156




                                                                                                    (V)




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                                                 THE RENT IS STILL DUE: AMERICA’S
                                                    RENTERS, COVID-19, AND AN
                                                 UNPRECEDENTED EVICTION CRISIS


                                                                     Wednesday, June 10, 2020

                                                           U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                                                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING,
                                                                     COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT,
                                                                               AND INSURANCE,
                                                                 COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES,
                                                                                      Washington, D.C.
                                        The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:01 p.m., via
                                      Webex, Hon. William Lacy Clay, Jr., [chairman of the sub-
                                      committee] presiding.
                                        Members present: Representatives Clay, Velazquez, Cleaver,
                                      Beatty, Green, Heck, Vargas, Larson, Tlaib, Axne, San Nicolas;
                                      Stivers, Posey, Huizenga, Tipton, Zelden, Kustoff, Rose, and Steil.
                                        Ex officio present: Representative Waters.
                                        Chairman CLAY. The Subcommittee on Housing, Community De-
                                      velopment, and Insurance will come to order. Without objection,
                                      the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at
                                      any time.
                                        Also, without objection, members of the full Financial Services
                                      Committee who are not members of this subcommittee are author-
                                      ized to participate in today’s hearing.
                                        Members are reminded to keep their video function on at all
                                      times, even when they are not being recognized by the Chair. Mem-
                                      bers are also reminded that they are responsible for muting and
                                      unmuting themselves, and to mute themselves after they are fin-
                                      ished speaking.
                                        Consistent with regulations accompanying H. Res 965, staff will
                                      fully mute Members and witnesses as appropriate when not recog-
                                      nized to avoid inadvertent background noise, like I am hearing
                                      now.
                                        Members are also reminded that all House rules relating to order
                                      and decorum apply to this remote hearing.
                                        Today’s hearing is entitled, ‘‘The Rent is Still Due: America’s
                                      Renters, COVID-19, and an Unprecedented Eviction Crisis.’’ I now
                                      recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening statement.
                                        I want to welcome all of you to our first virtual hearing of this
                                      subcommittee, which deals with enduring this very challenging and
                                      difficult time for renters, homeowners, landlords, and for our hous-
                                      ing market as a whole.
                                                                                          (1)




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                                                                                          2

                                         At today’s hearing, we will focus our attention on how the
                                      COVID-19 pandemic is impacting our rental market. The harmful
                                      effects of this pandemic on physical and mental health, financial
                                      stability, and overall way of being can be even more devastating
                                      when you are unable to pay your rent. When everyone is being told
                                      to stay inside to avoid getting sick, now is one of the worst times
                                      for families to lose their homes to eviction.
                                         Families who experience evictions are likely to experience great-
                                      er poverty and a host of other negative outcomes that make it
                                      harder for their family to get back on their feet, especially during
                                      a time when our country faces a growing economic crisis. In the
                                      worst cases, these families may fall into homelessness.
                                         But let’s be clear, many low-income families were already strug-
                                      gling to pay their housing costs pre-pandemic. As Ms. Oliva points
                                      out in her testimony, even before the pandemic, 23 million people
                                      and 10.7 million low-income households paid more than half of
                                      their income in rent, and rents across the country had become in-
                                      creasingly unaffordable.
                                         Many of these people work in jobs that do not allow them the
                                      flexibility to save and stash reserves away for a rainy day because,
                                      as many can attest, it always seems to be raining down on them,
                                      and COVID-19 has become an unrelenting storm.
                                         We also know that the economic effects of the COVID-19 pan-
                                      demic are being disproportionately felt by people of color. In the
                                      month of April, Latinx unemployment was over 18 percent, and
                                      Black unemployment was over 16 percent, while the Census Bu-
                                      reau reports that Latinx and Black households are struggling to
                                      pay rent at higher rates than white households.
                                         Congress acted quickly in March to pass the Coronavirus Aid,
                                      Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, which included lan-
                                      guage from a bill that I introduced, which provided mortgage for-
                                      bearance, including for multi-family and single-family rental prop-
                                      erty owners, but there is much more that needs to be done.
                                         The Urban Institute estimates that as this pandemic goes on, up
                                      to 17.6 million renter households could need rental assistance, at
                                      a cost of $96 billion for 6 months, to be able to remain in their
                                      homes.
                                         To further respond to the crisis, the House passed the Health
                                      and Economic Recovery Omnibus Emergency Solutions (HEROES)
                                      Act, which includes $100 billion for emergency rental assistance,
                                      increased protection against evictions, and other housing resources
                                      to support HUD and USDA programs.
                                         The House has acted and now the Senate must get to work. I call
                                      on my Senate colleagues to pass this bill to bring much-needed re-
                                      lief to families across the country, including struggling renters.
                                      Thank you, and I look forward to hearing the testimony of our wit-
                                      nesses today.
                                         I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, Mr.
                                      Stivers, for 4 minutes for an opening statement.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you, Chairman Clay. I appreciate you hold-
                                      ing this hearing. I apologize for the video, but I am in the rural
                                      part of my district on a cell phone today. But I am still able to be
                                      in on the hearing, and I appreciate that.




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                                                                                          3

                                         Obviously, today’s hearing will evaluate the impact of COVID-19
                                      on America’s housing security, which is an extremely important
                                      topic and it is important to focus on it. Time and time again, our
                                      subcommittee has highlighted the link between housing security
                                      and outcomes of health, education, and career prospects.
                                         So at a time of such economic volatility, it is right to focus on
                                      this topic. And as I mentioned during a recent virtual roundtable,
                                      Congress has taken extraordinary steps to deal with the unprece-
                                      dented public health crisis and its impact on our economy.
                                         The $2 trillion spending in the CARES Act, combined with tril-
                                      lions from the Federal Reserve, would have been unthinkable sums
                                      at the start of 2020, but there has been bipartisan consensus on
                                      those items because of the severity of the problem.
                                         The CARES Act and its implementation have not been perfect,
                                      but with respect to housing security, it is clear that the law’s for-
                                      bearance provisions, combined with extended unemployment insur-
                                      ance programs, have helped sustain individuals through the last
                                      few very difficult months.
                                         Now, all 50 States have begun to reopen their economies, and the
                                      Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that in May, the economy
                                      added 2.5 million jobs, but unemployment remains unacceptably
                                      high. So, we find ourselves in a rapidly evolving situation, and
                                      Congress and the Administration must evolve our response to meet
                                      those demands.
                                         I am keeping an open mind about what that response should look
                                      like, but it is clear we should focus on the formula that worked in
                                      the CARES Act. Namely, we need to: first, focus on real problems
                                      that are demonstrated by the best and most appropriate data; sec-
                                      ond, it should not be previous policy goals by Republicans or Demo-
                                      crats that pre-date the pandemic, but should be a response; third,
                                      it should truly help the housing and rental markets, not harm
                                      them through unintended consequences; and fourth, it should be bi-
                                      partisan.
                                         I know that the Democrat’s memo points to an alarming statistic
                                      from apartmentlist.com on payments of rents from renters, but the
                                      National Multifamily Housing Council data suggests significantly
                                      higher payment rates.
                                         And so, I think we need to keep all that in mind and try to sort
                                      out the facts. New forbearance requests have slowed. That is good
                                      news, and I am grateful to hear from our witnesses today, and I
                                      look forward to working together on underlying problems.
                                         Finally, I have enjoyed the discussions with Chairman Clay on
                                      the need to address racial disparities in home ownership. I think
                                      that is something we should be looking at, which is in the jurisdic-
                                      tion of our subcommittee.
                                         But there have been items that are outside the jurisdiction of our
                                      committee, mostly in the Judiciary Committee, that we can’t turn
                                      a blind eye to, including the injustice that occurred in Minneapolis.
                                      George Floyd should still be alive today, and so should countless
                                      other African Americans, and I think we need to work together, re-
                                      gardless of the fact that this is mostly in the jurisdiction of the Ju-
                                      diciary Committee, to root out injustice wherever we find it.




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                                                                                          4

                                        Thank you. I look forward to working with Republicans and
                                      Democrats on these important issues, and I look forward to hearing
                                      from our witnesses today.
                                        Thanks for holding this hearing, Mr. Chairman.
                                        Chairman CLAY. Thank you, Mr. Stivers. And thank you for your
                                      encouraging words. I look forward to working with you also to tack-
                                      le these issues as they come before this subcommittee, and before
                                      Congress.
                                        At this time, I recognize the Chair of the full Financial Services
                                      Committee, the gentlewoman from California, Chairwoman Waters,
                                      for 1 minute,
                                        Chairwoman WATERS. Good afternoon, and thank you, Chairman
                                      Clay. We were already dealing with the rental crisis long before the
                                      pandemic, and this pandemic has only made matters worse, with
                                      Black and Latinx renters bearing the brunt of the pain. According
                                      to the Turner Center, Black and Latinx renters are overrepre-
                                      sented among the rental population expected to be financially im-
                                      pacted by COVID-19, making up 28 percent, and 18 percent, re-
                                      spectively, even though they only comprise 18 percent, and 12 per-
                                      cent, respectively, of the U.S. population.
                                        While the CARES Act included an eviction moratorium that cov-
                                      ers some renters, it provided no rental assistance for people strug-
                                      gling to pay their rent during the pandemic. So, I am pleased that
                                      the HEROES Act includes a proposal by Mr. Heck and myself to
                                      provide $100 billion for emergency rental assistance.
                                        And I am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses today
                                      about the dire need for rent relief and the importance of keeping
                                      everyone stably housed during and after this crisis. Thank you so
                                      very much.
                                        And I yield back.
                                        Chairman CLAY. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for your
                                      steadfast leadership on the issue in this area on housing and how
                                      we make people secure in their housing, and I appreciate the work-
                                      ing relationship that we have.
                                        Today, we welcome the testimony of Cashauna Hill, executive di-
                                      rector, Louisiana Fair Housing Action Center; Mike Kingsella, ex-
                                      ecutive director, Up for Growth; Ann Oliva, visiting senior fellow,
                                      Center on Budget and Policy Priorities; and Jenny Schuetz, fellow,
                                      the Brookings Institution.
                                        Witnesses are reminded that your oral testimony will be limited
                                      to 5 minutes. A chime will go off at the end of your time, and I
                                      ask that you respect the Members’ and other witnesses’ time by
                                      wrapping up your testimony.
                                        And without objection, your written statements will be made a
                                      part of the record.
                                        And now, Ms. Hill, you are recognized for 5 minutes to give an
                                      oral presentation of your testimony.
                                           STATEMENT OF CASHAUNA HILL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
                                            LOUISIANA FAIR HOUSING ACTION CENTER (LaFHAC)
                                        Ms. HILL. Thank you, and good afternoon to you all.
                                        My name is Cashauna Hill and I serve as executive director of
                                      the Louisiana Fair Housing Action Center (LaFHAC). I want to
                                      thank Committee Chair Waters and Subcommittee Chair Clay for




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                                                                                          5

                                      the opportunity to address the subcommittee today. I would also
                                      like to thank Committee Ranking Member McHenry, Subcommittee
                                      Ranking Member Stivers, and all of the members of the sub-
                                      committee for welcoming all of the witnesses here.
                                         The Louisiana Fair Housing Action Center was established in
                                      1995 to eradicate housing discrimination and segregation. We are
                                      based in New Orleans and serve all of Louisiana as the only full-
                                      service fair housing advocacy group in the State. Our work includes
                                      work across four programmatic areas: education and outreach serv-
                                      ices; foreclosure prevention counseling; free legal representation to
                                      people who have experienced housing discrimination; and policy ad-
                                      vocacy at the State and local levels.
                                         Fifty-two years after the passage of the Federal Fair Housing
                                      Act, we know that housing discrimination in the United States re-
                                      mains a divisive force that perpetuates poverty and segregation
                                      and limits access to opportunity. The work of the Louisiana Fair
                                      Housing Action Center is dedicated to eradicating this scourge and
                                      to addressing the legacy of discriminatory housing policies that
                                      continues to feed unjust outcomes across the country.
                                         In Louisiana, we, unfortunately, have a lot of experience recov-
                                      ering from disasters. Whether from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
                                      that devastated South Louisiana in 2005, the subsequent levee
                                      breaches, or the great flood of 2016 in the Baton Rouge area, we
                                      know that in all of their destruction and tragedy, disasters are
                                      often an opportunity to imagine a different future.
                                         It is imperative that we take the chance now to deploy the re-
                                      sources needed to right past wrongs that made so many members
                                      of our community vulnerable to COVID-19 in the first place.
                                         I want to illustrate the challenges that we currently face through
                                      the story of Danielle Seymour. Ms. Seymour was working three
                                      jobs when the pandemic hit in March. Her jobs at a local basketball
                                      arena, waiting tables on Bourbon Street, and helping to run a
                                      Tulane University cafeteria all disappeared within the same week
                                      as New Orleanians sheltered in place to slow the coronavirus.
                                         At the time, Ms. Seymour was staying in an extended stay hotel
                                      as she waited for an inspection on a rental home. Despite a local
                                      eviction moratorium, the proprietor hired a security guard to cut
                                      off door locks and barge into rooms with a gun drawn. It was likely
                                      only the swift work of local legal aid attorneys that kept the situa-
                                      tion from deteriorating further.
                                         I wish Ms. Seymour’s story was an outlier, but nearly half of all
                                      renters in Louisiana were paying more than they could afford on
                                      rent and utilities before COVID-19. As is true across the country,
                                      the effects of COVID-19 have fallen disproportionately on Louisi-
                                      ana’s low-income and Black households. In New Orleans, many of
                                      the Census Tracts with the highest COVID-19 per capita rates cor-
                                      relate with Black-majority neighborhoods that have seen also the
                                      highest eviction rates.
                                         Without additional Federal assistance, we expect the reopening
                                      of eviction courts throughout the State to only deepen this dis-
                                      parity. Short of rent and mortgage cancellation, Louisiana renters
                                      and landlords desperately need a massive rental assistance pro-
                                      gram like the $100 billion set-aside for rental assistance in the HE-
                                      ROES Act.




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                                         Another crucial element of the HEROES Act is the extension of
                                      the CARES Act eviction moratorium to cover all renters. The
                                      CARES Act moratorium was an important step in the right direc-
                                      tion, but has proven incredibly difficult to implement at the local
                                      level, and it leaves far too many renters out. Because the last four
                                      digits of the landlord’s Social Security number are often required
                                      to look up a mortgage, most renters in Louisiana won’t have any
                                      way to determine whether they are covered under the CARES Act,
                                      and it has already proven very difficult to plan for enforcement of
                                      the Act and to educate the public about it.
                                         If courts decide to do the right thing and not require tenants to
                                      provide information that those tenants will likely not have access
                                      to, we are left with the courts themselves doing research on each
                                      property where an eviction is filed to ensure that the property is
                                      not federally-subsidized or subject to a federally-backed mortgage.
                                         In Louisiana, however, most jurisdictions handle evictions in Jus-
                                      tice of the Peace Courts, which are woefully unprepared to handle
                                      this level of engagement. Justices of the Peace are often non-law-
                                      yers. They have few, if any, staff, and in some communities, it is
                                      common for court to be held in the Justice of the Peace’s garage,
                                      living room, or kitchen.
                                         I return now to a point I opened with, that if we do not address
                                      racial and other disparities early in our disaster recovery efforts,
                                      we are destined to amplify them. Black home ownership in New
                                      Orleans, previously on the rise, has declined since Katrina. Seg-
                                      regation in the City has increased since the storm, and African
                                      Americans have been displaced from communities on high ground
                                      that are less susceptible to flooding, to communities that are far-
                                      ther away from jobs and social support systems.
                                         As we continue a long-overdue national conversation about rac-
                                      ism in America, I offer that we sit at the similar decision point in
                                      history as we did just before the Fair Housing Act was passed in
                                      1968. Fair housing advocates across the country understand that
                                      providing a just path forward is necessary. I thank you for the op-
                                      portunity to testify—
                                         [The prepared statement of Ms. Hill can be found on page 38 of
                                      the appendix.]
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you for your testimony.
                                         I now recognize Mr. Kingsella for 5 minutes.
                                       STATEMENT OF MIKE KINGSELLA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UP
                                                       FOR GROWTH ACTION
                                        Mr. KINGSELLA. Chairman Clay, Ranking Member Stivers, and
                                      esteemed members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me
                                      to provide testimony at this important hearing.
                                        By way of background, Up for Growth Action is a national legis-
                                      lative advocacy campaign focused on eliminating structural bar-
                                      riers to housing.
                                        The COVID-19 crisis has rapidly exposed the fragility of critical
                                      systems in infrastructure in our country, and the housing eco-
                                      system is no exception. Failure to address the looming rent crisis
                                      will have dire consequences for millions of Americans, and for the
                                      housing ecosystem that underpins our economy, which was already
                                      under strain from a severe shortage of homes.




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                                                                                          7

                                         We believe emergency rental assistance is the most important
                                      and urgent action Congress can take. It is essential to ensuring
                                      housing stability for the millions of Americans impacted by COVID-
                                      19 and essential for the housing providers who rely on these pay-
                                      ments. We commend the committee for its work thus far, in par-
                                      ticular, in ensuring that emergency rental assistance is included in
                                      the House-passed HEROES Act.
                                         I hope my testimony will provide perspective as to why these
                                      measures and others are needed now more than ever. To fully un-
                                      derstand the rent-associated challenges on the immediate horizon,
                                      we need to understand the severity of the existing housing crisis.
                                      The numbers are grim. The country is at least 7.3 million homes
                                      short of where we need to be, with deficits in every region, and the
                                      need spans all demographics and geographies.
                                         Nearly half of American renter households are cost-burdened,
                                      spending 30 percent or more of their income on rent. Extremely-
                                      low-income renters fare worse, with 71 percent of those folks mak-
                                      ing below 30 percent of AMI paying more than half of their gross
                                      income on rent.
                                         IAfrican-American and Hispanic renter households are much
                                      more likely to be cost-burdened than their white neighbors. Dec-
                                      ades of flawed housing policy led to more land being used for less
                                      housing, and the people in those homes having to travel longer dis-
                                      tances to find gainful employment. Spatial mismatch in housing is
                                      a $1.6 trillion drag on the economy, causing the Federal Govern-
                                      ment to forego hundreds of billions of dollars in tax revenue.
                                         And COVID-19 has further destabilized an already-struggling
                                      housing market. Fifty million people are living in renter house-
                                      holds where at least one person works in an industry most likely
                                      to be affected by COVID-19-related layoffs, and many of these
                                      households were already cost-burdened and cannot absorb any sud-
                                      den loss of income.
                                         It is vital that these families continue to stay in their homes.
                                      Rent is the cornerstone of the housing ecosystem, buttressing prop-
                                      erty investors both large and small. The housing sector contributes
                                      upwards of 18 percent of U.S. GDP. Seventeen million jobs are tied
                                      to the rental housing industry. Stable and durable rent payments
                                      sustain the financial system, and if this system is interrupted, it
                                      will virtually eliminate the capital necessary for more housing to
                                      be built. State and local coffers are nearing their breaking point
                                      and cannot sustain a drop in tax revenue resulting from a drop in
                                      rent payments.
                                         Emergency rental assistance is vital for millions of Americans
                                      struggling to pay rent. While expanded unemployment insurance
                                      benefits, one-time stimulus payments, and limited rent moratoria
                                      were necessary first steps, they are, by design, not equipped to ad-
                                      dress the longer-term problem.
                                         And that is why Up for Growth Action supports the Emergency
                                      Rental Assistance and Rental Market Stabilization Act introduced
                                      by Chairwoman Waters and Representative Heck. And we were
                                      pleased that this legislation and it’s $100 billion appropriation was
                                      included in the HEROES Act. The bill broadly meets the principles
                                      set forth by a broad coalition of advocates, industry, and consumer
                                      groups, and the focus of today’s hearing is on the immediate rent




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                                      crisis. I urge the subcommittee to use this opportunity to advance
                                      solutions needed to solve the underlying housing crisis, driven in
                                      large part by a severe shortage of homes.
                                         I outline several proposals in my written testimony, including
                                      Chairwoman Waters’ Housing is Infrastructure Act, and Represent-
                                      ative Heck’s bipartisan, Yes in My Backyard Act, both of which
                                      have been reported favorably by this committee.
                                         COVID-19 exposes weaknesses across every system, and I hope
                                      policymakers will act now so that we can create a more just and
                                      equitable housing ecosystem.
                                         Thank you for hosting this important hearing and for your work
                                      on housing affordability. I look forward to answering your ques-
                                      tions.
                                         [The prepared statement of Mr. Kingsella can be found on page
                                      45 of the appendix.]
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you, Mr. Kingsella.
                                         Ms. Oliva, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                                            STATEMENT OF ANN OLIVA, VISITING SENIOR FELLOW,
                                                CENTER ON BUDGET AND POLICY PRIORITIES
                                         Ms. OLIVA. Chairwoman Waters, Chairman Clay, Ranking Mem-
                                      ber Stivers, and members of the subcommittee, my name is Ann
                                      Oliva. I am a visiting senior fellow at the Center on Budget and
                                      Policy Priorities. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on
                                      this important topic.
                                         I want to begin by acknowledging the events of recent weeks and
                                      the systemic racism that led to the deaths of George Floyd,
                                      Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, and many other Black Ameri-
                                      cans, because it relates to the topic that we are discussing today.
                                         As a nation, we must pursue racial justice inequity, and housing
                                      justice must be part of the discussion because systemic racism also
                                      results in homelessness, housing instability, and the dispropor-
                                      tionate impact of COVID-19 on communities of color.
                                         The data is clear. Black people are dying of COVID-19 at 2.4
                                      times the rate of white people. Unemployment in May was still
                                      very high overall, but fell among white workers and kept rising
                                      among Black and Latinx workers. Black people account for 40 per-
                                      cent of those experiencing homelessness, but only 13 percent of the
                                      overall population, and Latinx people account for 22 percent of
                                      those experiencing homelessness, but only 18 percent of the popu-
                                      lation.
                                         If our response to the current health and economic crisis follows
                                      the same policy script of the past, we will do too little to stop a
                                      spike in evictions and homelessness, and Black, Latinx, and Amer-
                                      ican Indian/Alaska Native communities will suffer the most.
                                         First, let’s talk about the public health impact. COVID-19 shows
                                      that housing is a form of healthcare. People in doubled-up or con-
                                      gregate situations, people released from jail without a place to go,
                                      and people living on the street cannot socially distance or follow
                                      other public health guidance. Many of them are older or have dis-
                                      abilities or underlying health conditions that make them more sus-
                                      ceptible to getting sick.




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                                         From a public health perspective, emergency rental assistance
                                      will be key in helping people in particularly vulnerable situations
                                      get into safe housing.
                                         Now, let’s talk about the economic impact. Even before the pan-
                                      demic, too many households were paying too much of their income
                                      in rent, making it harder for them to bounce back after a job loss
                                      or a cut in income, and experts expect that the economic downturn
                                      will haunt us for some time. The Congressional Budget Office
                                      (CBO) estimates that unemployment will be 8.6 percent at the end
                                      of 2021, which is far more than double the pre-crisis level, and his-
                                      tory shows us that the labor market can remain weak far longer
                                      for Black workers than white workers, so, many Black households
                                      will struggle longer with low or no earnings.
                                         If additional rental assistance isn’t made available, communities
                                      across the country will struggle to address the impact of COVID-
                                      19. The heroic efforts to safely shelter thousands of vulnerable peo-
                                      ple at risk of COVID-19 will be squandered if people wind up back
                                      on the street because they can’t get rental assistance to transition
                                      to more permanent solutions.
                                         Large numbers of unsheltered people who want to come inside
                                      will continue to be criminalized and underserved. If growing num-
                                      bers of households can’t pay rent, we might see a wave of evictions
                                      once the moratoriums on evictions end. And some households will
                                      pay rent, but stop paying other bills like utilities, which will put
                                      them at high risk of losing their housing in the future.
                                         These indicators of what might come highlight an important
                                      point. COVID-19 has created a perfect storm of problems that will
                                      weaken communities and widen disparities with long-lasting effects
                                      unless flexible rental assistance is available.
                                         The HEROES Act includes short-, medium-, and longer-term
                                      rental assistance options that communities need to form a com-
                                      prehensive COVID-19 response to a variety of demands, and that
                                      benefit both households and landlords who own rental stock.
                                         In 2009, I led the design and implementation of the Homeless-
                                      ness Prevention and Rapid Re-Housing Program (HPRP) that
                                      served over 1.3 million people during the Great Recession, and is
                                      the closest model we have to what we need now.
                                         Given what we have learned since HPRP’s implementation, a
                                      new emergency rental assistance program should incorporate sev-
                                      eral key elements. Communities must use a racial justice and eq-
                                      uity approach in their programs to end homelessness for as many
                                      people as possible. Communities should focus on homelessness pre-
                                      vention and remove barriers that prevent historically marginalized
                                      populations and other people from accessing these funds. They
                                      should work with nontraditional partners that can reach into high-
                                      ly affected neighborhoods and areas, and recipients should work
                                      closely with landlords in implementing their programs.
                                         HPRP showed us that funding for emergency purposes can have
                                      both immediate benefits in addressing the crisis and long-term ben-
                                      efits by leveraging funding and innovation to achieve systemic
                                      change.
                                         Thank you, again, for the opportunity to testify. I am happy to
                                      answer any questions.




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                                         [The prepared statement of Ms. Oliva can be found on page 59
                                      of the appendix.]
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you so much for your testimony, Ms.
                                      Oliva.
                                         And Ms. Schuetz is now recognized for 5 minutes.
                                            STATEMENT OF JENNY SCHUETZ, FELLOW, BROOKINGS
                                                             INSTITUTION
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Waters, Chairman
                                      Clay, Ranking Member Stivers, and members of the subcommittee.
                                      Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. It is an honor to be
                                      here virtually before you. I am grateful for your continued leader-
                                      ship and attention to the critical issue of housing insecurity.
                                         My comments today will focus on the broader context of the cur-
                                      rent rental housing crisis, and policy tools available to Congress. It
                                      is vital to understand that housing insecurity was a widespread
                                      problem among low-income renters well before the COVID-19 pan-
                                      demic. Even before the current crisis, more than 10 million house-
                                      holds spent over half of their income on rent.
                                         When families devote too much of their budget to housing, they
                                      may not be able to pay for food, healthcare, or other necessities.
                                      Any loss of income will leave them unable to pay rent, increasing
                                      the risk of displacement. Low-income Black and Latinx workers
                                      have been hit particularly hard by the current recession. House-
                                      holds earning less than $40,000 per year have experienced higher
                                      rates of job loss. Black and Latinx workers are more likely to hold
                                      essential workforce jobs that cannot be carried out remotely.
                                         Further, the precarious situation of low-income renters today re-
                                      flects past policy choices by Federal, State, and local governments.
                                      Federal rental assistance is not an entitlement, unlike food stamps
                                      or Medicaid. Roughly one in four eligible renters receives any Fed-
                                      eral housing subsidy.
                                         Overly strict State and local regulations, such as zoning bans on
                                      apartments, contribute to the high cost and limited availability of
                                      rental housing. Compared to its role in overseeing mortgage mar-
                                      kets, the Federal Government plays a relatively small role in regu-
                                      lating rental housing.
                                         State Governments set most of the parameters for landlord/ten-
                                      ant laws, leading to wide variations across States in renter protec-
                                      tions. The currentpatch work of temporary eviction moratoriums is
                                      a predictable outcome of rental market regulations adopted at the
                                      State and local level.
                                         Additionally, it is important to underscore that temporary evic-
                                      tion moratoriums are not a long-term solution to housing insecu-
                                      rity. Allowing renters to suspend rent payments for a few months
                                      can relieve financial pressure in the short-term, however, families
                                      who cannot afford one month of rent now will face even greater dif-
                                      ficulty paying several months of overdue rent when the moratorium
                                      ends.
                                         Halting rent payments can have harmful ripple effects through-
                                      out local economies. Landlords rely on rent checks to pay their
                                      mortgages, insurance, utilities, and property taxes to local govern-
                                      ments. Rent checks pay the wages of other workers, such as main-
                                      tenance and housekeeping staff. Interrupting cash flows will inflict




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                                      the most harm on small-scale, non-professional property owners.
                                      Many of these landlords operate on thin margins, so the delay or
                                      loss of rent payments may force them to sell their properties.
                                         Congress can address renters’ housing stability in the short run
                                      through three channels. First and most importantly, renters with
                                      lost income due to the pandemic need direct financial assistance.
                                      The most recent jobs reports suggests that the economic recovery
                                      may be uneven. Workers in heavily affected industries or geo-
                                      graphic areas may require ongoing support even as the overall
                                      labor market improves.
                                         Second, local governments will have to process an unusually high
                                      volume of evictions once temporary moratoria end. Additional re-
                                      sources would allow them to manage these cases more equitably.
                                         Third, targeted grants or low-interest loans to property owners
                                      would help preserve the physical condition and financial viability
                                      of existing affordable housing.
                                         These three channels can help renters and property owners sur-
                                      vive the immediate crisis. Reducing long-term housing insecurity
                                      among low-income renters will require either increased funding or
                                      restructuring existing housing subsidy programs.
                                         The Federal Government should also work with State and local
                                      governments to reform land use regulations that make it difficult
                                      and expensive to build rental housing.
                                         Thank you for the opportunity to testify virtually today, and for
                                      your continued leadership on this important issue. I look forward
                                      to answering your questions.
                                         [The prepared statement of Ms. Schuetz can be found on page 71
                                      of the appendix.]
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you so much, Ms. Schuetz, and all of the
                                      witnesses for your testimony. I now recognize myself for questions.
                                         I will start with Ms. Hill. Many renters who have lost income
                                      due to the COVID-19 crisis have turned to credit cards to pay for
                                      their rent. Even among renters who have made their rent pay-
                                      ments on time, there has been a concerning trend of being increas-
                                      ingly reliant on credit cards to do so.
                                         Zego, a digital rent payment platform, reported a 30-percent in-
                                      crease in tenants using credit cards to pay rent in April compared
                                      to the month prior. While paying rent with a credit card may help
                                      renters avoid eviction in the short-term, it could lead to them fac-
                                      ing high interest rates and deeper debt that could impact their
                                      credit in the long-term.
                                         Research has shown that people of color are more likely to strug-
                                      gle with credit invisibility and lower credit scores. What other ad-
                                      verse financial effects might tenants face if they resort to paying
                                      for their rent with credit cards, and can you speak to the additional
                                      interest and associated costs renters might incur while doing so?
                                         Ms. HILL. Yes. Thank you for that question. In Louisiana, we
                                      deal with a very large population of our community that is signifi-
                                      cantly underbanked. Oftentimes, folks may not have access to tra-
                                      ditional lines of credit or to a bank account, and all of these issues
                                      are further exacerbating the impact of COVID-19 on their ability
                                      to pay rent.
                                         We are working in communities with many people who have lost
                                      jobs and income because they stayed home—as we were all directed




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                                      to do—in order to protect themselves and everyone else. So, we do
                                      have some concerns about this scenario that you have raised. When
                                      that option is available for people, we know that oftentimes for peo-
                                      ple who are very-low-income or for our African-American and
                                      Latinx community members, they are subjected to some of these
                                      predatory interest rates when it comes to credit cards or credit in
                                      order to pay rent.
                                        The concern that we have is really that these effects would snow-
                                      ball, that they would use these alternative methods to pay rent and
                                      then that high-interest vehicle just becomes a vehicle to incur more
                                      debt. At that point, people are then more likely to lose their homes.
                                      We actually, through our foreclosure prevention work, work with
                                      homeowners who are having difficulty paying their mortgages.
                                        And I would say that the number-one threat that we see amongst
                                      those folks who come to us for those foreclosure prevention coun-
                                      seling services is some sort of high-interest debt that they took on
                                      in order to help them, in the short-term, make those mortgage pay-
                                      ments, and then what we know is that those payments lead to the
                                      debt spiraling out of control.
                                        So, there is a very real risk of people being forced into homeless-
                                      ness because they are having to find alternative methods to cover
                                      their rent costs.
                                        Chairman CLAY. It just sounds like a spiraling effect of getting
                                      deeper and deeper into debt. Thank you for that.
                                        Let me go to Ms. Oliva. My hometown of St. Louis, Missouri, and
                                      across America was already experiencing a rental affordability cri-
                                      sis before the pandemic, with a national shortage of 7 million
                                      apartments that are affordable and available to extremely-low-in-
                                      come renters. Some of the hardest-hit renter households were low-
                                      income and likely had little savings, even before the pandemic,
                                      since rental costs ate up most of their paychecks. Low-income
                                      households are also more likely to work in industries where job
                                      losses related to the pandemic have been particularly severe.
                                        Considering this crisis, what will the long-term impact be for
                                      renters, Ms. Oliva?
                                        Ms. OLIVA. Thank you so much, sir, for that question. In my
                                      written testimony, you will see that we provide quite a bit of data
                                      around housing instability and homelessness and what we really
                                      are concerned about is a large inflow of people into the homeless
                                      services system that is already overburdened and can’t serve all
                                      the people who already need housing and services through that
                                      system.
                                        We know that most people who are experiencing homelessness
                                      are at that extremely-low-income level, at zero to 30 percent of the
                                      area median income.
                                        So you can see that, through my testimony, we are suggesting
                                      that we are quite deliberate, and you all were actually also quite
                                      deliberate in the design of the Emergency Rental Assistance Pro-
                                      gram for good reason, because we wanted to make sure that people
                                      in the worst situations or who are most likely to become homeless
                                      are prioritized for assistance, and that we are stopping evictions for
                                      all the people for whom we can stop evictions.
                                        Because even if those families don’t become homeless, you can
                                      see through Matthew Desmond and other peoples’ research that




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                                      eviction leads to long-term housing instability and, like you said,
                                      a sort of spiraling effect over the long-term.
                                         So if we do nothing now, we will see increased homelessness and
                                      increased housing instability that we will have to deal with down
                                      the road.
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you so much for that response. My time
                                      has expired, and I now recognize the distinguished ranking mem-
                                      ber of the subcommittee, Mr. Stivers, for 5 minutes.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I appreciate you
                                      holding this hearing.
                                         My first question is for Dr. Schuetz. Can you explain what the
                                      current data is saying about how renters have been impacted by
                                      COVID-19?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Yes, thank you. We have partial data on how rent-
                                      ers are responding to this. The most widely-cited survey is by the
                                      National Multifamily Housing Council. They have been reporting
                                      information that is provided from relatively large apartment own-
                                      ers through the software companies that process their rent.
                                         For the set of apartments that fall into their sample, 80 percent
                                      of households were able to make at least a partial rent payment
                                      as of the beginning of June. So, we have seen pretty consistently,
                                      70 to 80 percent of households making some payment. There are
                                      a couple of things to keep in mind with that. The smaller prop-
                                      erties that are run by nonprofessional owners are not represented
                                      in that because they don’t use these software companies to report.
                                         The other thing that we have noticed is that more people are
                                      making payments over the course of the month. Often, people can’t
                                      pay at the beginning of the month, and they are paying maybe a
                                      month or two late. In particular, we saw this in the first month be-
                                      cause people were waiting to get their stimulus checks and the ex-
                                      panded unemployment insurance, but most renters are still making
                                      payments.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you, Dr. Schuetz.
                                         Given our admitted blind spots on that policy, how effective do
                                      you believe HUD would be in administering a national rental as-
                                      sistance program?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. I think the question is whether rental assistance
                                      is going to be provided through existing mechanisms. In the short
                                      run, it is easier to put more funding into an existing program that
                                      already has an administrative infrastructure, continuing to send
                                      out checks to people who get it. The harder thing is likely to be to
                                      start up something new, to the extent that we have to reach out
                                      to landlords who haven’t worked with HUD, or provide it through
                                      some sort of different mechanism. Getting a new program up and
                                      running in a crisis situation is harder, so using existing mecha-
                                      nisms is easiest. And economists always say if we can give people
                                      cash, we prefer to, because cash is fungible, so replacing income
                                      lost by direct payments to households is likely to be the most effec-
                                      tive.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you. That leads into my next question, Dr.
                                      Schuetz. First, is there anything in the CARES Act which allowed
                                      renters to help make their payments and what was most effective?




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                                         And second, are there any troubling signs out there that might
                                      cause the rental crisis to become more serious in any of the data
                                      you have seen?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. We have only kind of indirect evidence on how
                                      households are able to continue making payments, but this trend
                                      of people picking up their payments as the stimulus checks and un-
                                      employment insurance rolled out suggested those have actually
                                      been very effective ways of helping people stay current.
                                         So, households receiving financial assistance has really helped
                                      stabilize them to a greater extent than we expected. I would say
                                      the worry is when that money runs out, since the stimulus was a
                                      one-time check. The expanded unemployment insurance has a
                                      timeline. There is a concern that when those run out, households
                                      are likely to be in trouble if they have not gone back to work. Of
                                      course, the uncertainty is that when the larger labor market recov-
                                      ers, how many of those people will be able to go back to work, will
                                      be able to resume their full number of hours?
                                         Obviously, the point of this is to provide enough assistance to
                                      bridge people until the larger economy recovers. We simply don’t
                                      know when that is going to happen.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you.
                                         One last question, because you talked about land use policy. Are
                                      there things that you would recommend on land use policy that
                                      Congress could do that would make apartments more affordable,
                                      because those things are driving up rents?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. This is a longer-term issue, but yes. The Federal
                                      Government should be thinking about how it can incentivize local
                                      governments to allow more housing, particularly close to jobs and
                                      transportation centers and, in particular, local land use is heavily
                                      prejudiced against apartments, multi-family buildings, through the
                                      majority of rental housing. Encouraging local governments to make
                                      it easier to build rental housing will bring down the cost and make
                                      it possible for more people to find places to live.
                                         That is not necessarily a quick fix, but as Mr. Kingsella said, if
                                      we want to have a more functioning housing market in the long
                                      run, at some point we have to deal with these supply constraints.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you. I think it is important to say that we
                                      are all committed, on both sides of the aisle, to racial justice and
                                      equality. I know we have a lot of work to do in housing and hous-
                                      ing policy. I look forward to working with Chairman Clay going for-
                                      ward, and both Democrats and Republicans on those issues.
                                         I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you. The gentleman from Ohio yields
                                      back.
                                         I now recognize the Chair of the full Financial Services Com-
                                      mittee, Chairwoman Waters, for 5 minutes.
                                         Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Clay. I would
                                      like to direct a question to Jennifer Schuetz. I am really pleased
                                      that you testified today extensively about smaller landlords. I have
                                      been worried about these landlords who are basically mom and
                                      pop, and you testified that they own nearly half of all rental units,
                                      22.7 million units and then you contrasted that, and you estimated
                                      that fewer than 1 million business entity landlords own a little
                                      over half of the rental units in the United States.




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                                        So these smaller landlords, you say, are more likely to have rent-
                                      ers who are unable to pay the rent due to the pandemic. I am wor-
                                      ried that even with the HEROES Act, if we are successful, and I
                                      think we can be, in getting the $100 billion that we have been
                                      working on, I don’t know how long it is going to take to get the
                                      system up by which we could get that rental assistance to the land-
                                      lords to benefit those renters.
                                        What do you think will happen if it takes 3 months to get the
                                      systems going, particularly in some of the States that may have
                                      more difficulty identifying which entity of government will be re-
                                      sponsible for doing the implementation of the landlord of the assist-
                                      ance that we are directing toward the landlords?
                                        And what will these small mom and pops do if they have to wait
                                      another 3 or 4 months before they can get their rental payments?
                                        Ms. SCHUETZ. Thank you for that question.
                                        Small mom-and-pop landlords are unquestionably going to be the
                                      most impacted. Many of them own small properties, a single-family
                                      house, or a two- to four-family house, and so having even one ten-
                                      ant in, say, a two-family house who can’t pay rent means that half
                                      of the income for that property is gone. That obviously makes it
                                      very difficult to pay all of the other payments down the line.
                                        We know that a lot of the small mom-and-pop landlords do have
                                      mortgages. Some of them may be federally-backed mortgages in
                                      which case they have up to a year to forbear on the mortgage pay-
                                      ment, but many of the owners of the small rental properties do not
                                      have federally-backed mortgages and so the mortgage payment is
                                      still due.
                                        In addition to that, property taxes are often a fairly substantial
                                      expense as well, as local governments are facing very difficult
                                      budget constraints at the moment. So any fallback in property
                                      taxes would hurt local governments’ ability to pay for essential
                                      public services.
                                        We don’t know entirely what is likely to happen, but we suspect
                                      that many of the smaller landlords may be forced to sell their prop-
                                      erty if they don’t have income coming in. Three months to forego
                                      your mortgage payments is enough to get you in trouble and so
                                      there may actually be a number of these smaller properties that
                                      wind up going on the market. That is potentially a threat to the
                                      existing affordable housing stock. Many of these are relatively low-
                                      rent properties.
                                        If they get bought either by homeowners who take them out of
                                      the rental stock or by investors who choose to raise the rent, this
                                      could be a permanent loss for long-term affordable housing.
                                        Chairwoman WATERS. Do you think that perhaps even with 3 to
                                      4 months waiting to rent to get back rental payments that there
                                      would be a lot of evictions where the small landlords could get des-
                                      perate and say, ‘‘I can’t go along with this any longer. I know you
                                      people are saying that you are going to get the assistance to us,
                                      but I just can’t wait any longer. It hasn’t happened.’’
                                        Do you think there will be a whole rash of evictions?
                                        Ms. SCHUETZ. My understanding is that local governments are
                                      expecting to have a lot of eviction filings when the moratorium
                                      ends. Many of those are delayed at the moment, in part because
                                      court systems are shut down and they are simply not processing




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                                      cases that have been filed, but it is quite possible that a number
                                      of landlords have started eviction proceedings.
                                         The other threat is if the landlord has to sell the building be-
                                      cause they can’t make the payments, then the new owner of the
                                      building may also move forward. So, it is definitely a possibility.
                                         Chairwoman WATERS. I am really worried about the small land-
                                      lords, and we are working very hard to try and ensure that we
                                      have the kind of implementation of the $100 billion so that the
                                      landlords and the renters don’t have to wait too long, because I am
                                      worried that if they all have to wait too long, not only will we have
                                      landlords who will evict them or, as you said, have to sell their
                                      properties, but we think that it will cause a lot of action on the
                                      street, with a lot of unhappy people out there who are not able to
                                      keep their rental units and are being evicted.
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Yes. There is certainly a potential.
                                         Chairwoman WATERS. Thank you.
                                         And I yield back the balance of my time.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The chairwoman yields back.
                                         I now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Posey, for 5
                                      minutes.
                                         Mr. POSEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Rank-
                                      ing Member. I appreciate both of you bringing out the challenges
                                      our renters face in the midst of this pandemic that we are enduring
                                      now.
                                         As we move forward, I think we should consider the best way to
                                      address this hardship and to do it consistent with principles and
                                      approaches that we have been providing assistance in other areas
                                      successfully.
                                         The Paycheck Protection Program is a good model that if used
                                      [inaudible] Existing program to provide temporary relief in a time-
                                      ly way to respond to the crisis.
                                         We should refrain from the temptation to enact broad expansions
                                      of existing problems or even new programs to respond to the crisis.
                                      General program extensions and new programs should be subject
                                      to regular order, I believe, and not emergency legislation. I believe
                                      that this kind of economic crisis calls for us to be compassionate
                                      about the ability of families to meet their rent.
                                         And with those principles in mind, I believe we might work to-
                                      gether to provide timely rental assistance through the Section 8
                                      program, a limited and temporary program expansion that is
                                      means-tested on the basis of an individual or a family’s ability to
                                      pay within the window of the COVID-19 crisis.
                                         This allows a direct grant to the disadvantaged renter to pay his
                                      rent in place within the home he currently occupies. Such assist-
                                      ance should be limited, obviously, to the time period of the crisis
                                      and be subject to an expedited application and approval process.
                                         My question to the panelists is, do you think the idea I just de-
                                      scribed would address the challenges that renters face in the cur-
                                      rent pandemic?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I am happy to start, and my fellow panelists can
                                      come in behind me. I would say, as I mentioned in my testimony,
                                      we think that it is really important to have a comprehensive ap-
                                      proach here to address short-, medium-, and longer-term needs. De-
                                      pending on the specific circumstances of various households and




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                                      families, we know that some folks, as was mentioned earlier, will
                                      be continuing to pay the rent by using credit cards or by not paying
                                      utilities.
                                         We have folks who are in domestic violence situations. There are
                                      a lot of different situations that we need to contemplate, so I would
                                      suggest that we look at this as a package that includes a substan-
                                      tial emergency rental assistance component in addition to addi-
                                      tional vouchers for folks who need longer-term assistance and can’t
                                      stabilize with only short- or medium-term assistance.
                                         Mr. KINGSELLA. I would also add that in terms of the individuals
                                      who require rental assistance, we make a connection with the pan-
                                      demic and pandemic containment efforts, and economic impacts, we
                                      are looking at a number of individuals who are called the missing
                                      middle of affordability, the 80 percent AMI to 120 percent AMI
                                      range. And I believe that we have seen that individuals in that
                                      bucket have been impacted directly by COVID and have been ei-
                                      ther put on furlough or have been terminated as a result of layoffs.
                                         One of the elements that the emergency rental assistance struc-
                                      ture provides States is the ability to scale that resource up to indi-
                                      viduals who aren’t typically covered under the current Section 8
                                      Program.
                                         Congressman Posey, I would point you to a May 4, 2020, letter
                                      signed by 43 industry organizations, consumer groups, and housing
                                      advocates that lays out the principles of a successful rental assist-
                                      ance program in response to COVID.
                                         And I would venture to say that the Emergency Rental Assist-
                                      ance Act is a vehicle that is moving, that is included in the HE-
                                      ROES Act, that leverages existing programs, but to the extent that
                                      expansion of Section 8 or HOME or other programs get to the same
                                      outcome, I think you would find that a number of stakeholders
                                      would support that approach.
                                         I think the essence of the advocacy is to ensure that this money
                                      gets out to folks.
                                         Thank you.
                                         Mr. POSEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
                                         I am out of time.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentleman from Florida yields back.
                                         I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Cleaver, for 5
                                      minutes.
                                         Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you,
                                      Ranking Member Stivers, and the Chair of the Full Committee,
                                      Chairwoman Waters, for allowing this hearing to take place, be-
                                      cause it is taking place in the backdrop of social justice and civil
                                      rights becoming a part of what happens on the front burner of the
                                      American system.
                                         We are seeing Americans evolve, with all races and all creeds de-
                                      manding an end to systemic institutionalized racism. I addressed
                                      the protesters here, about 5,000. I walked out, Mr. Chairman, to
                                      address them and almost went into tears because having been in
                                      my first civil rights march at the age of 15, down in Texas, this
                                      was the first time I had seen a crowd like this. About 55, maybe
                                      60 percent of the participants were white. The rest were Black and
                                      Brown.




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                                         In the old civil rights movement, you would have, for example,
                                      the president of Notre Dame, a priest, walking with Martin Luther
                                      King, or Ralph Abernathy, or Joe Lowery, or C.K. Steele, or Fred
                                      Shuttlesworth, but it was for protection. These people were there
                                      saying they want change and, frankly, I think that our committee,
                                      your chairmanship in this committee, deals with change perhaps
                                      more than any other committee, including the Judiciary Com-
                                      mittee, because housing is right at the core of change and is also
                                      one of the principal causes of the pain.
                                         One of the things that I would like our panel to address is, we
                                      have $100 million in the HEROES Act, and I am wondering if you
                                      believe that there are—I don’t know if you read the bill or know
                                      much about it, but if there are better ways of dealing with that
                                      $100 billion in terms of rental assistance than what we might have
                                      recorded in the HEROES Act?
                                         Any or all of you?
                                         Ms. HILL. From our perspective, and as someone who has served
                                      in communities that are multiracial and with some pretty high pov-
                                      erty levels across the State of Louisiana, it is clear to us that this
                                      rental assistance is going to be critical in order for people to be
                                      able to recover and fully participate in the thrust of their commu-
                                      nities after this pandemic ends. We know that people are strug-
                                      gling to pay their rent and that they need this cash assistance in
                                      order to be able to do so.
                                         Coming from a place, Louisiana, that also has very few tenant
                                      protections, we see this as an opportunity to actually tie that as-
                                      sistance to some tenant protections because it is likely proposed
                                      that the rental assistance is really landlord assistance, right? It
                                      goes to landlords to help them cover the cost of the rents that they
                                      are missing. And so, if they are going to make a massive invest-
                                      ment in supporting landlords, then I would like to see participating
                                      landlords ask to sign lease addendums with provisions that provide
                                      some protections to tenants, protections that are missing in Louisi-
                                      ana’s landlord/tenant laws, things like a 14-day right to cure any
                                      lease breaches, anti-retaliation protections, other than the State of
                                      Louisiana, where it is still perfectly lawful for landlords to retaliate
                                      against their tenants and to kick tenants out who request things
                                      like repairs. And so, having some protections tied to the money
                                      would be especially helpful for Louisianians.
                                         Mr. CLEAVER. I am glad to hear you say that, because I intend
                                      to speak with Chairwoman Waters and Chairman Clay about some
                                      other changes along the lines of what you are saying, because we
                                      have a senior citizen facility in Kansas City where HUD guaran-
                                      teed the loan to the Missouri Housing Development Corporation
                                      (MHDC), and the owners live out-of-State. The temperature is now
                                      hovering every day here in the mid-90s, with no air conditioning;
                                      the air conditioning went out. There are all kinds of problems. We
                                      need to do something along the lines of what you were saying, but
                                      maybe they ought to be a part of HUD regulations. HUD is guaran-
                                      teeing bad ownership of a senior housing project.
                                         And my time is up. I had a lot to say. Thank you, sir. Thank you,
                                      Mr. Chairman.
                                         Chairman CLAY. I’m sorry. Thank you, Mr. Cleaver.




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                                         And let me remind Members to keep their cameras on so that we
                                      can see you on the main screen and be able to recognize you.
                                         At this time, I would like to—okay. Is Mr. Huizenga there? You
                                      are recognized for 5 minutes.
                                         Mr. HUIZENGA. Thank you. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.
                                      Hopefully, I think you can see me as well.
                                         I really just wanted to make a statement more than anything,
                                      and then yield back. I do appreciate the accommodation. This is
                                      something that is critical to so many communities in rural areas,
                                      suburban areas, and urban areas. And we do need to make sure
                                      there is adequate housing stock. Having been involved in the busi-
                                      ness of construction for 3 generations now, we also know the effects
                                      that oftentimes, local ordinances and requirements, and things like
                                      that, what kind of costs might be added to the construction side of
                                      things. And obviously, that impacts affordability.
                                         So I hope in this conversation we are loking not just at a govern-
                                      ment program to help with dollars getting sent to either the renter
                                      or the provider of the housing and those kinds of things, but we
                                      also have that discussion about, how do we make sure that afford-
                                      able housing is truly affordable on the construction side and on the
                                      availability side as well.
                                         With that, I am going to yield back. I appreciate the opportunity
                                      to be on today.
                                         Chairman CLAY. I thank the gentleman for yielding back and for
                                      your brevity.
                                         I now recognize the gentlewoman from Ohio, Mrs. Beatty, for 5
                                      minutes.
                                         Mrs. BEATTY. Thank you so much to our chairman and to our
                                      ranking member and to all of those who are participating in our
                                      new format of testifying. I have certainly enjoyed hearing your tes-
                                      timony.
                                         And as we talk about housing, it is very clear that we are on a
                                      cliff. Evictions are on a cliff. And when you look at who is on the
                                      ledge of that cliff, we are looking at individuals who look like me.
                                      We are looking at those individuals who might be homeless. When
                                      we think about where we are in the midst of this nation, whether
                                      it is COVID-19, as our chairman talked about in his opening state-
                                      ments, and when we look at the death rates in proportion to what
                                      African Americans in particular represent in this nation, and cer-
                                      tainly those disparities are also here in my district. So when I
                                      think about who is at risk, the least of us are at risk. When I think
                                      about minority populations, I think about those who are at risk be-
                                      cause we are at an inflection point in this country with regard to
                                      diversity and inclusion with racial biases and racism.
                                         I just introduced a resolution which says that racism is a na-
                                      tional crisis. And housing was one of the first things, Mr. Chair-
                                      man, that I listed in it.
                                         Let me make a quick statement, and then I have two questions
                                      I would like to address to the panel. The questions will be centered
                                      around, how are these long-existing gaps affected by COVID-19,
                                      and how does Congress ensure that they do not widen the gap even
                                      further, and how do we close them as it relates to housing?
                                         And before you start to answer that, let me just remind you of
                                      something that my staff shared with me in an article that was




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                                      written in 1966 in The Nation Magazine, where Martin Luther
                                      King, Jr., said, ‘‘Slums with hundreds of thousands of living units
                                      are not eradicated as easily as lunch counters or buses are inte-
                                      grated or jobs, and jobs are harder to create than voting.’’
                                         When you think of chattel, slavery was abolished, but a program
                                      to transform slaves into citizens was omitted. So, he is talking
                                      about economic justice. He is talking about it as we look at wealth
                                      creation or the lack of it and mainly talking about housing.
                                         So, where do we go from here? I will start with you, Ms. Hill.
                                         Ms. HILL. Thank you so much for the question, and it resonates
                                      very deeply with me. I think what is most important is that we
                                      have to seize this opportunity to go somewhere, right? We know
                                      that this conversation is not new. We know that it has happened,
                                      it has been happening, and it is continuing to happen now. So, we
                                      have to seize the opportunity.
                                         We knew from the current commission report, around the same
                                      time that you are mentioning, Representative Beatty, that we
                                      needed, as a country, to do something, and those changes were not
                                      made. It is time now to act upon those promises and really to honor
                                      the legacy of Dr. King and all of those who worked with him for
                                      this kind of justice to which you are referring.
                                         In Louisiana, as across the country, Black and Brown households
                                      were already disproportionately impacted by the affordable housing
                                      crisis prior to COVID-19. We know now that Black women are dis-
                                      proportionately impacted by eviction rates across the country as
                                      well as in New Orleans. And Matthew Desmond’s research has
                                      helped to highlight that problem. In New Orleans, the same Black-
                                      majority neighborhoods with eviction rates that are much higher
                                      than the national average are now the same areas that have been
                                      hit hardest by COVID-19 in our City.
                                         There has to be a comprehensive package that seeks to redress
                                      these ongoing disparities. The cash rental assistance is incredibly
                                      important. And rental assistance that is tied to protections for ten-
                                      ants is also important, and increased support for homelessness pre-
                                      vention programs, especially eviction defense. We know that having
                                      a right to counsel in eviction court would cut evictions in New Orle-
                                      ans, for example, by half.
                                         There really is a variety of options available. And we are so
                                      thankful for your leadership, this subcommittee’s leadership on
                                      these issues and in moving this conversation forward.
                                         Mrs. BEATTY. Thank you. And I have a few seconds left, for any-
                                      one who wants to answer, as we know, the CARES Act eviction
                                      moratorium and prohibition on late fees for nonpayment will expire
                                      next month, on July the 25th. With the record high unemployment
                                      numbers, which we learned are going to be even higher, where do
                                      we go from here, when renters are looking at an eviction, on that
                                      eviction cliff on July 31st? What do we do to protect those renters
                                      when the CARES Act expires and the rent becomes due?
                                         Would anybody else like to comment on that?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. Yes, I would be happy to comment quickly on that.
                                      That is why it is so important for us to get emergency rental assist-
                                      ance to be able to do homelessness and eviction prevention for
                                      those renters that are on that cliff that you are describing. But it
                                      is also why we need to take new approaches to this emergency




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                                      rental assistance program, and we have to use a racial justice and
                                      equity approach. We need to ensure that we are targeting highly-
                                      impacted neighborhoods and communities. So, there are lots of
                                      things that folks can do. Thank you so much for that question be-
                                      cause it is incredibly important.
                                         Mrs. BEATTY. Thank you. My time is up, and I yield back, Mr.
                                      Chairman.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentlewoman yields back.
                                         At this time, I recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Tip-
                                      ton.
                                         Mr. TIPTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I also thank the
                                      ranking member for his support.
                                         I would like to associate myself with the comments that Mr.
                                      Huizenga made. We do need to be looking at some of the regulatory
                                      hurdles that we are impeding by increasing the costs of affordable
                                      housing, and also the full recognition that a lot of this is impacted
                                      at the local level, in terms of where they will allow the affordable
                                      housing to be built.
                                         I would like to start with Dr. Schuetz, and thank you for being
                                      before our panel again today. I wanted to follow up, during our last
                                      panel, you had noted that there are debt obligations, maintenance
                                      obligations continued during this crisis. Is it still your view that
                                      property owners are required to be able to carry forward with those
                                      obligations during the crisis?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Thank you for that question. Yes. Property owners
                                      still have to maintain their properties. The temporary forbearance
                                      on mortgages applies to maybe half of rental property owners. So,
                                      that will help landlords who have a mortgage that is federally-
                                      backed; they will have some extra time to pay that off. And that
                                      allows them to pass along savings to their tenants. But the mort-
                                      gage is not the only thing they owe. In particular, we worry about
                                      them not being able to pay their property taxes to local govern-
                                      ments. We are seeing a shortfall in a number of their revenue
                                      sources in some things like sales and hospitality taxes. One of the
                                      other concerns is just basically paying utilities. Water and sewer
                                      have to keep running, and utilities for the property overall.
                                        There are things that landlords have to pay whether the rent is
                                      coming in or not. And if they are not getting enough cash in order
                                      to do that, some of them may need to put their buildings up for
                                      sale. So, that is definitely a concern.
                                        Mr. TIPTON. In addition to that, obviously, being noted by other
                                      questioners, if air conditioning and heating goes out, it is pretty
                                      much the obligation of the landlord to fix that. So, it is important
                                      that they receive as much rent as possible.
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Yes. And, again, thinking about the scale of build-
                                      ings that are most vulnerable, if there is a 200-unit building and
                                      a few tenants can’t pay rent, the landlord is still getting income
                                      from most of the building. We are particularly worried about small-
                                      er buildings, the one- to four-unit properties that are in fact half
                                      of the rental units in the United States. Those are really dependent
                                      on all of the tenants having continuing cash flow and being able
                                      to pay rent.
                                         We do know that landlords are often making negotiations with
                                      tenants. If tenants have, for instance, lost some hours, and they




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                                      can make a partial payment but not a full payment, most landlords
                                      would rather have someone in the unit who is able to pay some
                                      cash rather than having to flip the unit. If you evict and then the
                                      unit sits empty, that doesn’t help. So, landlords are trying to work
                                      with tenants where they can, providing both—replacing the income
                                      to renters through either unemployment insurance or some other
                                      method that allows them to keep making payments. For some land-
                                      lords, it may also be helpful to some have small grants perhaps ad-
                                      ministered through the local government to help them maintain
                                      the property and viability.
                                         Mr. TIPTON. Ms. Schuetz, during your testimony, you noted that
                                      temporary eviction moratoria can be helpful in the short term, but
                                      these moratoria could increase a household’s long-term financial in-
                                      security. Could you speak to that a little bit more?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Sure. We worry that if households are not paying
                                      rent, but that the balance of their rent is accruing, at some point
                                      that has to be paid off or renegotiated with the landlord. Most rent-
                                      ers are in very thin financial margins. So if they are out of work
                                      for a month or 2 months, even when they get their job back, they
                                      can start getting current on their payments, but there is a past-
                                      due balance. That is similar to the issue of putting your rent on
                                      a credit card; it postpones it until the future, but at some point,
                                      those bills come due. And most people don’t have the assets to pay
                                      that off.
                                         Mr. TIPTON. I appreciate the answer to that. And I also appre-
                                      ciate the rent in terms of smaller landlords that are out and the
                                      impacts it is having on them. I think we all join in wanting to
                                      make sure that people have a roof over their head, and also recog-
                                      nizing that people have made investments that need to be able to
                                      be serviced as well.
                                         I would like to jump, with the little time that I have left, to dur-
                                      ing the last appropriations cycle, we appropriated $290 million to
                                      the Homeless Emergency Solutions Grants (ESG) Program. Under
                                      the CARES Act, that increased by about $4 billion in spending.
                                      Under the HEROES Act, it is proposed to spend an additional
                                      $111.5 billion on the ESG program.
                                         Does ESG currently have the capacity and the efficacy to be able
                                      to absorb the 299 percent increase, particularly given the time?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. I am not familiar enough with the administration
                                      of the program to know how the increase in funding would work.
                                      I cannot speak to that.
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I would be happy to take that, given that that was
                                      my office when I was at the Department of Housing and Urban De-
                                      velopment. Can I do that, Mr. Clay?
                                         Chairman CLAY. Yes. Yes, you may. Please provide us with that
                                      information.
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I think we are always right, as members of the gov-
                                      ernment, to pay attention to capacity. And you are right; the $290
                                      million is the normal ESG allocation in any given year.
                                         But we need to make sure that ESG recipients have the guidance
                                      and support that they need to effectively design and effectively im-
                                      plement these types of programs. So, I would first encourage HUD
                                      to get the ESG COVID funding that was under the CARES Act
                                      guidance out the door as quickly as possible.




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                                         I would also say that we can provide technical assistance re-
                                      sources through these funds that can support communities to really
                                      focus on the strategies that work and ensure that they have the ca-
                                      pacity they need to administer these funds. We need to make sure
                                      that HUD is appropriately staffed to monitor these programs.
                                         I know that when I ran HPRP, which took a 200—it was $160
                                      million at the time to $1.5 billion. We hired term employees to do
                                      monitoring, and that was incredibly important.
                                         I think the most important thing that I want to say on this par-
                                      ticular issue is that ESG grantees have always risen to the chal-
                                      lenge. And I hope that that is not—while we need to pay attention
                                      to it, I would not want that to be a barrier to providing really im-
                                      portant emergency rental assistance to communities.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentleman from Colorado yields back.
                                         I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, for 5 min-
                                      utes.
                                         And please unmute, Mr. Green.
                                         Mr. GREEN. Thank you for the reminder, Mr. Chairman. And
                                      thank you for the hearing as well. I also thank the ranking mem-
                                      ber of the subcommittee, and the Chair of the Full Committee. And
                                      I thank all persons who had any hand in perfecting this important
                                      hearing.
                                         Mr. Chairman, as you and I know, the Fair Housing Act of 1968
                                      passed Congress within weeks of the assassination—in fact, within
                                      days of the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King. It did not end
                                      invidious discrimination in housing.
                                         Just as having laws that indicate what the speed limit is, does
                                      not prevent people from speeding. You have to have enforcement.
                                      And enforcement still is much needed, even today, because invid-
                                      ious discrimination still exists.
                                         Ms. Hill, I think you have made some salient points on this, as
                                      well as others, about the invidious discrimination in housing.
                                         We know that, during this time of the pandemic, the President
                                      has done some things that were unkind. He has made statements
                                      about the, ‘‘China virus.’’ And this has caused persons who are of
                                      Asian ancestry to be discriminated against.
                                         I did a speech on the Floor of the House where I talked about
                                      this level of discrimination, persons trying to seek lodging being
                                      discriminated against. But we also know that over 60 percent of
                                      the people experiencing homelessness in America today are Black
                                      and Latinx and that over 4 million fair housing violations are esti-
                                      mated to occur each year against members of protected classes.
                                         So, during this time of pandemic, it is exceedingly important that
                                      we have enforcement, enforcement in terms of intake, education,
                                      and investigation as it relates to the complaints that are going to
                                      be called to our attention with reference to invidious discrimination
                                      in housing. It does happen, and we need to make sure that we pro-
                                      tect people.
                                         I am honored to say that the Chair of the Full Committee, the
                                      Honorable Maxine Waters, is an original cosponsor of the Fair
                                      Housing Further Enforcement Emergency Act. These are funds
                                      that are being allocated to deal with the invidious discrimination
                                      that emanates as a result of the coronavirus.




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                                         I would ask you, Ms. Hill, do you believe that it is necessary for
                                      us to have this emergency enforcement power and the ability to in-
                                      vestigate and take action against those who still deal in hate, some
                                      of it emanating from the highest office in the land as a result of
                                      comments that are being made by the President of the United
                                      States of America? Your thoughts, Ms. Hill, please?
                                         Ms. HILL. Thank you so much for that question, Representative
                                      Green.
                                         And, absolutely, yes, these programs and the resources that you
                                      mentioned are incredibly important, and perhaps now more so than
                                      ever. Unfortunately, and it may be counterintuitive, but we know
                                      from experience that complaints often go up during emergencies.
                                      When families have lost income and are at risk of losing their
                                      homes, they are really at their most vulnerable. And that is even
                                      more true now when homelessness might mean increased exposure
                                      to the potentially deadly coronavirus. Unfortunately, there are
                                      housing providers that we know will take advantage of this precar-
                                      ious situation that many tenants are in.
                                         We saw rampant discrimination against Black New Orleanians
                                      and families with children after Hurricane Katrina, and we needed
                                      to really engage in some large-scale litigation to right some of those
                                      wrongs.
                                         We are very concerned about increasing sexual harassment cases
                                      during the pandemic. There are reports of some landlords looking
                                      to capitalize on the lack of ability of some of their tenants to pay
                                      rent. And so, we are hearing reports of landlords seeking to ex-
                                      change sexual favors for rent with some of their vulnerable tenants
                                      who are having difficulty making those payments. We are hearing
                                      reports from domestic violence survivors in Louisiana who are
                                      being victimized further by landlords not following the law.
                                         For instance, we are working with a woman who had survived
                                      domestic violence, and went to her landlord and asked to be moved
                                      to a different unit per the Louisiana State Violence Against Women
                                      Act, and was told, in direct contradiction to that law, that she
                                      would have to pay out the remaining months of her lease before
                                      she could be granted the permission to move.
                                         So, we know that an increase in fair housing funds will be essen-
                                      tial to ensure that we can continue to investigate these cases and
                                      ensure that families are protected under the Fair Housing Act.
                                         Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the time I
                                      do not have.
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you so much, Mr. Green.
                                         And, at this time, I will recognize the gentleman from Tennessee,
                                      Mr. Rose.
                                         Mr. ROSE. Thank you, Chairman Clay, and Ranking Member
                                      Stivers.
                                         And to our panelists testifying today, we appreciate you being
                                      available to talk about this important issue.
                                         We are currently navigating uncertain times and folks are hav-
                                      ing to make difficult decisions regarding their finances. With job
                                      losses stemming from the economic downturn related to COVID-19,
                                      there are concerns that renters have had trouble meeting their
                                      monthly rent payments.




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                                        This is building on Mr. Tipton’s question about the negative ef-
                                      fects of the failure of tenants to make their rent payments. Can
                                      you talk about the overall ripple effects and negative externalities
                                      to communities, especially rural communities, such as supplying
                                      local jobs and paying local property taxes? Dr. Schuetz?
                                        Ms. SCHUETZ. Thank you for that. We are concerned about where
                                      rent payments go further down the line and when those are not
                                      available. So, for many landlords, they will still have to pay a mort-
                                      gage, and if they don’t, there are consequences to that. Property
                                      taxes are obviously one of the high items on the list that landlords
                                      have to pay. Local governments are having a really difficult time
                                      at the moment. They have lost money from sales taxes, and hospi-
                                      tality taxes. Incomes have dropped. They are facing a squeeze on
                                      the budget side at the same time that they are being asked to pro-
                                      vide extra services to constituents. So, failure to pay property
                                      taxes—the inability to pay property taxes will hurt.
                                        There are also jobs related to this. Larger properties tend to em-
                                      ploy more onsite staff: building superintendents; maintenance staff;
                                      housekeeping staff. Those are typically not high-wage jobs, but peo-
                                      ple rely on them for their income. Most of those smaller landlords
                                      don’t have in-house staff, but they hire outside contractors, particu-
                                      larly for maintenance, the plumbers and electricians. These are all
                                      downstream payments that could be threatened if a few months
                                      dry up.
                                        I have not seen information on how rural communities are doing
                                      relative to urban areas with repayment. But we do know that some
                                      of the rural areas, particularly those with food processing plants,
                                      are seeing higher rates of infection, and that is likely to put stress
                                      on their public health systems as well as their local public
                                      amounts.
                                        Mr. ROSE. Thank you. I know I have said it before, but we have
                                      a responsibility in Congress to ensure that dollars spent by the
                                      Federal Government are spent wisely, efficiently, and for the in-
                                      tended purposes. And falling from that, I am hesitant to say that
                                      $100 billion in new spending that would more than double HUD’s
                                      annual budget achieves that. It is our role to ensure that are were
                                      being prudent. And it does no good to the American people to make
                                      a bloated false promise of assistance that never actually comes. We
                                      need smarter, more innovative, localized solutions than the ones we
                                      are largely discussing today.
                                        Dr. Schuetz, you stated in your testimony that excessively strict
                                      State and local regulations have made it extremely difficult for lo-
                                      calities around the country to build apartment buildings, contrib-
                                      uting to the high costs and limited availability of rental housing.
                                        Where do you find these local regulations are the strictest and
                                      prohibit the growth of affordable housing the most?
                                        Ms. SCHUETZ. The short answer is everywhere. Almost every
                                      local government in the country has zoning that preferences single-
                                      family detached houses relative to multi-family buildings. Multi-
                                      family buildings provide most of the purpose-built rental housing.
                                      And so effectively, every local government in the country is biased
                                      against building rental housing. And we find this consistently
                                      across the country. This is true for suburbs. This is true for rural
                                      communities.




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                                         We find that higher level of overall regulations in many of the
                                      coastal metropolitan areas. But the suburbs in Dallas and Detroit
                                      are every bit as restrictive of apartment buildings as San Fran-
                                      cisco. So really, this is a national problem, that we have made it
                                      hard to build. Local communities have different kinds of barriers,
                                      but almost every community has some sort of barrier, particularly,
                                      to rental housing, low-income housing. Rural areas, in particular,
                                      their restrictions on manufactured housing, which is generally one
                                      of the lowest cost ways to create housing in smaller communities.
                                         Mr. ROSE. Isn’t it true, though, if we provide more than double
                                      the funds for HUD, most of these funds are going to go to renters
                                      in the high-cost cities? Is that a fair statement?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. The per-household subsidy is much higher in high-
                                      cost cities because of the way the formula works. HUD’s rental as-
                                      sistance is going mostly to people in large populated places where
                                      there are larger populations and also where the cost of housing is
                                      higher.
                                         Mr. ROSE. Thank you, Chairman Clay. I yield back.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentleman from Tennessee yields back.
                                         I now recognize the gentleman from Washington State, Mr. Heck,
                                      for 5 minutes.
                                         Mr. HECK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, and
                                      Madam Chairwoman. Thank you so very, very much for holding
                                      the hearing on this important topic.
                                         As many of you have heard me describe before, I tend to have
                                      a perspective of framework about the issue of shelter, especially in
                                      the context of the COVID crisis, that is a three-legged stool. I am
                                      going to outline that and then ask a couple of panelists to respond:
                                      to affirm; to disabuse; or to amplify.
                                         The first leg of the stool is support for homeowners. Home owner-
                                      ship is still far and away a hugely held aspiration of the American
                                      public. But just as importantly, it is the number-one net worth
                                      building tool of the average American, and a critical component of
                                      their retirement security. We recognized this when we provided
                                      mortgage forbearance for those whose mortgages are ultimately
                                      held by one of the Government-Sponsored Enterprises, and well we
                                      should.
                                         The second leg of the stool is support for renters. We talked a
                                      lot about that. The panelists—you have terrific data about the cry-
                                      ing need for this. You have all heard me say my mantra is: pillow;
                                      blanket; roof. If someone doesn’t have a pillow to lay their head on,
                                      a blanket to keep them warm, and a roof over their head, any other
                                      issue in their life is not going to be dealt with, whether it is unem-
                                      ployment or mental health or substance abuse; you don’t success-
                                      fully deal with those things while you are sleeping under a bridge.
                                      That is why I am so passionate about the $100 billion that was in
                                      our legislation and then included in the HEROES Act. And it is not
                                      just me.
                                         Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I ask unanimous consent
                                      to submit a letter for the record that has 640 signatures to it. And
                                      might I add, this is not a petition. Those signatures represent 640
                                      different organizations nationally who have come together and
                                      united in a very diverse coalition in support of our $100 billion
                                      rental relief.




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                                         Chairman CLAY. Without objection, the letter will be submitted
                                      into the record of the hearing.
                                         Mr. HECK. Finally, of course, is the issue of the missing millions
                                      of homes that Mr. Huizenga so eloquently alluded to—7.3 to 7.5
                                      million. Let us remember this, that when you have a supply re-
                                      striction, you have increased occupancy, which leads to increased
                                      rents, which leads to increased cost burdens, which of course we
                                      are experiencing at historic levels, which increases homelessness.
                                      We simply have to build more housing units, especially affordable
                                      housing units in this country. And it is not just for the benefit of
                                      the individuals who need it; it is for the benefit of this entire coun-
                                      try. Because I want to remind you that every recession in modern
                                      history, save the last one, has been led out of by housing construc-
                                      tion activity. And we are not doing it. And we are not doing it at
                                      a rate that continues to accumulate our housing unit deficit on an
                                      annual basis. We need more housing units, especially affordable
                                      housing units.
                                         I guess I would like to start with Ms. Oliva, with whom I haven’t
                                      had the opportunity to interact before, and ask you, those are my
                                      three legs: support for homeowners; support for renters; and sup-
                                      port for increased housing unit construction. Can you affirm it or
                                      disabuse me or amplify any component of it that you think bears
                                      highlighting?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. Sure. Thank you so much for that question. I actually
                                      spend a lot of time in your State, working in King County, so I
                                      know quite a bit about some of the work that is being done
                                      throughout the State.
                                         I would say that my expertise is not in home ownership. It is
                                      really around rental housing for people who are extremely-low-in-
                                      come and low-income and experiencing homelessness.
                                         And so, I wouldn’t disabuse you of any of the three legs of your
                                      stool, but what I would say, and that I talk a little bit about in my
                                      testimony, is that we really need to target the most in-need fami-
                                      lies and households first to ensure we are not creating a worse sit-
                                      uation, especially within the homeless shelter system.
                                         And specifically to COVID-19, we are seeing so vividly that hous-
                                      ing is healthcare. And to the extent that we are prioritizing folks
                                      without housing and folks potentially going to lose their housing,
                                      I think that is an incredibly important component of the emergency
                                      rental assistance, and for full housing sort of complements the
                                      short-, medium-, and long-term options that are included in the
                                      HEROES Act.
                                         Mr. HECK. A quick follow-up question, if I may. One of the ear-
                                      lier speakers alluded to $100 billion as ‘‘bloated.’’ Frankly, I find
                                      that sad. I think a perfectly legitimate question to be raised is, can
                                      we effectively and efficiently get that amount of money out because
                                      it is large? But is it bloated compared to the need?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I don’t think so. I believe that we need to fully re-
                                      spond to this crisis so that we don’t have lasting long-term impacts
                                      in the way that we are starting to see now.
                                         Mr. HECK. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentleman from Washington yields back.
                                         I now recognize the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Steil, for 5
                                      minutes.




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                                         Mr. STEIL. Thank you very much, Chairman Clay, Ranking Mem-
                                      ber Stivers, and Chairwoman Waters for pulling together today’s
                                      hearing, which I think is on a really important topic. The events
                                      of the past few weeks, I think really refocused our attention on
                                      some of the structural barriers to opportunity. Today’s hearing, in
                                      particular, is about how COVID-19 is impacting people’s housing,
                                      in particular those of low- and moderate-income, as well as under-
                                      represented minority groups.
                                         I want to dive in on this. I would like to ask a question of you,
                                      Ms. Schuetz, regarding the proposed extension of the temporary
                                      moratorium on evictions. You talked about this a little bit, and I
                                      have read your testimony that was put forward. But I would like
                                      you just to dive in a little further. You have noted, I think very
                                      well, the impact of the potential extension as set forth by the HE-
                                      ROES Act that passed the House, what that would be in real terms
                                      on mom-and-pop landlords. But could you also comment on what
                                      role that may play at city and State municipal level resources and
                                      how that would play out in State and local budgets if the proposal
                                      that has ultimately passed the House in the HEROES Act was
                                      fully implemented?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Sure. Yes, it is definitely a concern for local gov-
                                      ernments which are really where the evictions are likely to be proc-
                                      essed. And communities across the country have a variety of dif-
                                      ferent ways of dealing with evictions. New York City has an entire
                                      housing court which does nothing but handle landlord/tenant
                                      issues and evictions. But for many other places, particularly small-
                                      er communities, this runs through the general court system. Many
                                      of the court systems have been closed down or operated—
                                         Mr. STEIL. If I can, let me just refocus the question maybe a little
                                      bit more tailored here. In your commentary, particularly on some
                                      of the mom-and-mop landlords where they may be uniquely finan-
                                      cially impacted, would they have challenges in paying their prop-
                                      erty taxes which would ultimately impact State and municipal gov-
                                      ernments?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Many of them will have difficulty with that. Prop-
                                      erty taxes are a very substantial component for smaller properties,
                                      and those are going to be due depending on the local budget cycle.
                                      But if they don’t have income coming in, they might not be able
                                      to pay that, which then directly impacts the local budget.
                                         Mr. STEIL. Thank you. And let me shift gears slightly. One of the
                                      things we saw Congress do really out of the gate was kind of come
                                      in with a sledgehammer, and flood the market with liquidity. There
                                      are reasons to do that at the beginning of the crisis.
                                         As we look now, I think there is a real opportunity to shift from
                                      the sledgehammer to the scalpel to make sure we are getting relief
                                      to those who need it most while preventing relief from being just
                                      blanketed across all individuals in the United States.
                                         In particular, as you reviewed the potential expansion of the
                                      moratorium put forth in the HEROES Act, can you comment on the
                                      impact that would have? It appears that it would obviously be a
                                      benefit to low- and moderate-income individuals who truly are im-
                                      pacted by the coronavirus through no fault of their own. But would
                                      it also be available to higher-income individuals or those who have




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                                      not had the same negative impact in their financial situation due
                                      to the coronavirus?
                                        Ms. SCHUETZ. I don’t know exactly how this would play out with
                                      different incomes. In part, what we have seen is that the ability to
                                      continue paying rent has been dependent on the extended unem-
                                      ployment insurance and the stimulus checks which are going to
                                      run out.
                                        One of the difficulties of sort of targeting with a scalpel at the
                                      moment is the uncertainty about how quickly the labor market will
                                      recover across different geographies in different industries. So, I
                                      don’t think we know yet which workers are going to be going back
                                      to work, the companies that are still going to be hiring, and the
                                      kind of hours that are replaced.
                                        I fully agree that it is ideal to tailor the stimulus. We are guess-
                                      ing a little bit, because we are still in the dark about where the
                                      recovery is going to come back soonest. So, it may not be possible
                                      to tailor it as much as we would like.
                                        Mr. STEIL. I appreciate your commentary today. And I appreciate
                                      everyone’s work on this important topic.
                                        And, with that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
                                        Chairman CLAY. Thank you so much. And the gentleman yields
                                      back.
                                        I now recognize Mr. Vargas of California for 5 minutes.
                                        Mr. VARGAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
                                        It is great to see you, great to see my colleagues, and great to
                                      have these wonderful panelists. Again, thank you very much for
                                      holding this hearing.
                                        First of all, as you know, here in San Diego we have been hit
                                      hard because of COVID-19. So much of our industry relies on tour-
                                      ism, and tourism, of course, has been one of the industries that has
                                      been hit very, very hard. So, again, we have a lot of people who
                                      have been relying on these stimulus checks and unemployment in-
                                      surance, and that is going to run out, as we said earlier. So I think
                                      that there is going to be a coming crisis here in San Diego. And
                                      as was stated earlier, I think it depends on how quickly the econ-
                                      omy will recover. I think the economy will not recover as quickly
                                      as some people think, especially in the tourist industry, because of
                                      the fear of COVID-19.
                                        I do have to say one thing, though, and it sticks in my craw
                                      every time. I keep hearing about these high-cost areas and how
                                      some people from some States say, why do we spend so much on
                                      a high-cost area? So I would like to remind everyone that Cali-
                                      fornia gives more money to the Federal Government than any other
                                      State, and that doesn’t come back to us; we are a donor State, not
                                      a receiving State. Some of these people from the receiving States
                                      love to throw rocks. But I look at how much money they receive
                                      compared to California, and I say, ‘‘Take a look at the facts next
                                      time before you start throwing rocks, please.’’
                                        I do want to talk a little bit about corporate landlords versus
                                      mom-and-pop landlords and just go for that for a second because
                                      the reality is that corporate landlords, I think, are better capital-
                                      ized to be able to withstand some of these problems, I think, that
                                      are coming, that are already here and going to be coming as a tsu-
                                      nami, versus mom and pop. What can mom-and-pop landlords do




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                                      when a lot of their tenants are not going to be able pay the rent?
                                      Would someone like to comment on that, please?
                                         Mr. KINGSELLA. Yes, sure. I am happy to start. Congressman
                                      Vargas, I think you bring up a very excellent point with regard to
                                      our landlords because, as Ms. Schuetz said in her testimony, small-
                                      er landlords, smaller property owners disproportionately provide
                                      housing to those on the front lines who are most at risk of being
                                      impacted by COVID. You also have the least wherewithal that
                                      withstands shocks, such as many landlords are experiencing.
                                         We spoke to a small landlord in Washington State, the first in
                                      the county, who takes naturally occurring affordable housing and
                                      preserves it as affordable. And she reported that delinquency of
                                      rent as of April 9th was 4 percent across her portfolio, 12 percent
                                      as of May 9th across her portfolio, and 32 percent as of June 9th
                                      across her portfolio.
                                         So anecdotal data points are suggesting that the smaller land-
                                      lords not only have the least wherewithal to withstand this chal-
                                      lenge but are also disproportionately experiencing the brunt of the
                                      crisis of nonpayment of rent.
                                         I would also just add that, from a municipal perspective, I know
                                      that there have been a number of questions about the ability for
                                      the $100 billion of emergency rental assistance to move through
                                      the ESG system. I think it is actually quite exciting to see the
                                      number of cities, including San Diego, that have established local
                                      rental assistance programs to respond to the need. The challenge
                                      is, as many of us know, that the resource isn’t there to serve the
                                      need. We spoke to the City of Tacoma, Washington, and they re-
                                      ported that they received over 700 applications the day that they
                                      opened up their rental assistance program. And it has become a
                                      lottery system. The communities, municipalities, even States, don’t
                                      have adequate resources to provide funding for those folks im-
                                      pacted by COVID-19.
                                         And I just say that to say that, yes, we fully agree with your
                                      point with regard to smaller landlords bearing the brunt and want
                                      to amplify the fact that there are limited, scarce resources avail-
                                      able to insure and protect those landlords from potential financial
                                      challenges here in the coming months.
                                         Mr. VARGAS. Again, I would like to—if someone else wants to
                                      comment on that. Because the truth of the matter is—I know in
                                      my own district, we have a number of people who have worked
                                      very, very hard to create a few units, and that is what they rely
                                      on for their retirement. And they are not well-prepared to weather
                                      this storm if it continues to go on. As I said, a lot of people have
                                      been able to pay their rent because of unemployment insurance, be-
                                      cause of the stimulus checks, but they are going to run out.
                                         If we don’t have the assistance, then what are these small land-
                                      lords going to do? And they rely on this money for retirement. How
                                      can we help them? Would anyone else on the panel like to comment
                                      on that?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Sure. I will just say quickly that I think it is worth
                                      considering some funds that landlords can apply for to help supple-
                                      ment their expenses and cover the cost of this. And particularly for
                                      mom-and-pop landlords, we want the hurdle for applying to be rel-
                                      atively low. Complicated programs are a deterrent even to request-




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                                      ing health. The big corporate landlords have attorneys and have ac-
                                      countants, so they can fill out applications for things. But for mom-
                                      and-pops, if we want to get funding to them, we need to make this
                                      pretty accessible.
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I would totally agree with that, and I would also just
                                      add that we need to make sure communities who receive these
                                      funds are doing outreach specifically to these small landlords so
                                      that they can make sure that anybody who is one of their tenants
                                      who is behind in rent is accessing this resource to get them whole.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentleman from California’s time has ex-
                                      pired.
                                         I now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Lawson.
                                         Mr. LAWSON. This question is to Ms. Oliva. Concerns have been
                                      raised that the Emergency Rental Assistance and Rental Market
                                      Stabilization Act that was included in the HEROES Act would not
                                      provide rental assistance to the higher-income people who lost their
                                      job due to the COVID-19 pandemic. It says their former income
                                      would be too high to qualify for the program. Could you please ex-
                                      plain how these people would be qualified under the program?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I would be happy to. Thank you for that question, be-
                                      cause I think it is an important one. The program as passed in the
                                      HEROES Act actually contemplates exactly that scenario in a cou-
                                      ple of different ways. It does target a certain amount of the funding
                                      to people who are extremely-low-income and very-low-income. And
                                      then, it actually allows communities the flexibility to go up to
                                      about 120 percent of area median income with 30 percent of the
                                      funds, if I remember correctly. But it also makes a change and
                                      makes a very specific change to how eligibility is determined at the
                                      point of application per assistance. And that means that really it
                                      is taking into account only the income that is happening right now
                                      for a household to make them eligible for assistance. So households
                                      who have lost income that might have been higher income in the
                                      past and have lost income as a result of the economic impact of
                                      COVID-19 would—as long as they meet one of those income re-
                                      quirements 30 percent, 50 percent, or up to 80 to 120 percent, then
                                      they would be eligible for these resources.
                                         So, it is actually specifically contemplated and addressed in the
                                      HEROES Act.
                                         Mr. LAWSON. Okay. I am trying to wrap my head around that.
                                      I am trying to understand it a little bit better. But the individuals
                                      that I am talking to really feel like when they read the program,
                                      they were left out. And so I am trying—I have to give them some
                                      assurance based on what you are telling me. And maybe I need to
                                      read some more, that according to what you are saying is that it
                                      is going to be up.
                                         And maybe the chairwoman might want to comment on that be-
                                      cause that is a big concern that I have in an area—in two areas,
                                      in Tallahassee and in Jacksonville—they are not systematically left
                                      out of the HEROES plan. Am I correct?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. If they are at income levels between zero up to, in
                                      some cases, 120 percent of area median income, they can be served
                                      through the Emergency Rental Assistance Program in the HE-
                                      ROES Act, but with the caveat that there are specific types of tar-




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                                      geting that are also worked into the Act to ensure that people with
                                      the highest need are prioritized.
                                         Mr. LAWSON. So you are saying a hundred and some percent—
                                      let’s say $150,000 for a family or for an individual?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. Area median income is for the household.
                                         Mr. LAWSON. Okay. So, in most cases, many don’t fall into that
                                      category.
                                         Ms. OLIVA. If they lost income due to the effects of COVID-19,
                                      they very well could fall into that category. Because the way that
                                      eligibility is determined based on the way that the law is written,
                                      it is based on their income at the time that they are applying for
                                      assistance. It looks like maybe Mr. Kingsella also has some
                                      thoughts on this.
                                         Mr. LAWSON. Okay.
                                         Mr. KINGSELLA. Absolutely. Thank you, Congressman Lawson,
                                      and Ann, thank you. That is absolutely right. That was a major
                                      point of discussion with a number of stakeholders on the conversa-
                                      tions around this policy. And we were very pleased to give con-
                                      firmation from the authors that the testing is as of the time of ap-
                                      plication, not some trailing period of months. So if you are a house-
                                      hold that, let’s say, 150 percent of area median income, you lose 50
                                      percent of your income, you are now cost-burdened, you have the
                                      opportunity to apply for and receive an emergency rental assist-
                                      ance voucher.
                                         Mr. LAWSON. Okay. I am hoping I can get this in. I have a lot
                                      of student housing here. And many of the owners of these com-
                                      plexes are saying that they are pretty much left out because with
                                      the loans and stuff that they have, that they are not allowed to
                                      seek other resources in order to provide for the management of
                                      their loans because it is the type of loan they signed up for. And
                                      that becomes a problem because you have a lot of complexes here
                                      that house students, and these students are not in these complexes.
                                      So, they are suffering from paying their mortgages.
                                         Have you done anything in that regard, that anyone can com-
                                      ment on?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. I would just note that the Emergency Rental Assist-
                                      ance Programs and the other programs that are included in the
                                      HEROES Act are really about supporting the individual household.
                                      I could be wrong, but I don’t think that the underlying financial
                                      sort of setup for the building as a whole would make any of those
                                      people or households ineligible for funding as long as they meet the
                                      requirements.
                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentleman from Florida’s time has expired.
                                         I now recognize the gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, for
                                      5 minutes.
                                         Ms. TLAIB. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is always so good to see
                                      you. And thank you so much for this hearing on an incredibly im-
                                      portant issue. As someone who represents a very much front-line
                                      community in the third ward district, I have seen my folks really
                                      enduring this pandemic.
                                         Talking about what is in the HEROES Act, I do want to uplift
                                      something that I think is really critically important. The morato-
                                      rium for—in the State of Michigan, we have a separate moratorium
                                      that is actually over on Friday. And one of the things I have been




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                                      really stressing about, just for the panel to know is, I know the
                                      moratoriums are just Band-Aids, and that after they are done, all
                                      of it, from the student loans to the mortgages to the water pay-
                                      ments, all of those things that were moratoriums are now going to
                                      be due.
                                         My issue is, we are always specifically saying, okay, we are going
                                      to do something about utility shutoffs, like water shutoffs in my
                                      district. We are going to specifically do something about renters’
                                      help. Why aren’t we looking at the fact that most of our neighbors
                                      across the country are not as blessed as many of my colleagues and
                                      I. They are very much living paycheck-to-paycheck. Why aren’t we
                                      talking about recurring payments? Meaning, I have the Automatic
                                      BOOST to Communities Act where we say: Look, we are going to
                                      have precharged debit cards given out to people during this pan-
                                      demic because again, many of them were in survivor mode before
                                      the pandemic.
                                         And now we are asking them: Hey, hold off, you don’t have to
                                      pay rent now. But, yes, in a few months, all of the rent will be due
                                      at the same time.
                                         So I want to hear from you, especially Dr. Jenny Schuetz, you
                                      had mentioned about the stimulus. And I want to hear from you
                                      as you work with advocates on the ground, does a recurring pay-
                                      ment, do stimulus payments help address the issue around rent?
                                         Ms. SCHUETZ. Thanks for that question. A number of my col-
                                      leagues at Brookings have actually written a year ago—it is very
                                      prescient now—an argument that we should have automatic stabi-
                                      lizers that are tied to things like the national unemployment rate.
                                      So that, rather than Congress having to decide on these on a case-
                                      by-case basis, that assistance directly to households, or potentially
                                      to local governments, that those are tied to these national markers
                                      of economic assistance. And you could do that. You could even do
                                      something that is tied to sort of local rates. The local unemploy-
                                      ment rate, when that goes above some level, that payments to
                                      households directly kick in until the unemployment rate goes
                                      lower. So, there are some very strong arguments to doing that.
                                      Then, the number of payments that have to be made would be de-
                                      termined by how quickly the economy recovers.
                                         Ms. TLAIB. Do you have any insight, Ms. Oliva or Ms. Hill or Mr.
                                      Kingsella, when you talk to advocates, are they pushing this idea
                                      around, recurring payments as addressing some of these social
                                      needs that existed prior to the pandemic, but obviously has been
                                      heightened due to it?
                                         Ms. HILL. I would say, absolutely. Working in communities
                                      throughout the State of Louisiana, one of the things that is very
                                      clear to me is that Louisiana is going to continue to feel the effects
                                      of the COVID-19 pandemic for years to come.
                                         We know that, in the New Orleans area, in particular, our econ-
                                      omy really heavily depends on tourism and hospitality jobs. And so,
                                      the concern that we have and that our clients have is that while
                                      stimulus and the unemployment insurance has been helpful, we
                                      know that folks are now being asked to return to work in what is
                                      traditionally the slowest time for those industries. And so, they are
                                      now going back to work, and our moratorium here ends on June




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                                      15th. So we are concerned that people are going to have to catch
                                      up on the rent that they missed during the moratorium.
                                         Ms. TLAIB. Ms. Hill, do you think recurring payments is some-
                                      thing that needs to be really leading this conversation about how
                                      we address some of these issues?
                                         Ms. HILL. Absolutely, because the nature of our lives means that
                                      we don’t just incur one-time costs. Rent, bills, those things occur
                                      on an ongoing basis. The stimulus and the unemployment money
                                      has been very helpful. But in order to help people to continue to
                                      recover from this, ongoing payments are certainly incredibly impor-
                                      tant.
                                         Ms. TLAIB. Any other panelists who would like to chime in?
                                         Mr. KINGSELLA. I think the Emergency Rental Assistance Act
                                      clearly provides—one of the bright spots of it is, it provides both
                                      the catching up on rent arrearages as well as future rental pay-
                                      ment needs.
                                         Ms. TLAIB. Thank you so much. Thank you to the chairman. I
                                      just want you all to know, it is not only rent; it is utilities, it is
                                      water. That is why you have to give people human dignity, and
                                      give them the resources that they need and let them choose what
                                      is the priority for their families so they can be able to live with the
                                      quality of life and humanely.
                                         Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you, Ms. Tlaib.
                                         And the gentlewoman from Michigan yields back.
                                         I now recognize the gentlewoman from Iowa, Mrs. Axne, for 5
                                      minutes.
                                         Mrs. AXNE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is great to see your
                                      face, and I would like to thank the witnesses for being here. I’m
                                      glad we could make this happen.
                                         I want to get right to it. In the most recent survey from the Cen-
                                      sus Bureau, more than 30 percent of Americans had very little con-
                                      fidence that they would be able to pay their next month’s rent.
                                      Those, of course, are folks with overwhelmingly lower incomes and,
                                      in fact, in my State of Iowa, every one of these renters makes less
                                      than $50,000.
                                         We worked on the CARES Act and we did create the eviction
                                      moratorium to protect those renters in federally-backed properties,
                                      and I know that most States have put in broader prohibitions on
                                      evictions to keep people in their homes over the last couple of
                                      months, but as Representative Tlaib just mentioned, and in States
                                      like Iowa, people still owe their rent, and some of these morato-
                                      riums have expired. Mine here in Iowa expired 2 weeks ago.
                                         Ms. Oliva. I know that 70 percent of homeowners with mortgages
                                      backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac have been provided financial
                                      assistance by giving forbearance and allowing them to delay pay-
                                      ments until the end of their mortgage. I know we have covered this
                                      a bit so far today, but just to confirm, have we done anything simi-
                                      larly broad to help renters stay in their homes during this crisis?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. No. We don’t have a specific package for renters in
                                      this crisis in the same way yet, which is why we are so excited
                                      about what is included in the HEROES Act, because it provides
                                      short-term, medium-term, and long-term options that can really be




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                                      used together at the local level to address needs for people who are
                                      experiencing homelessness all the way through eviction prevention.
                                         So, that is why we are so excited about this law.
                                         Mrs. AXNE. Very good. Thank you and, of course, I want to thank
                                      Mr. Heck and Chairwoman Waters for their leadership in intro-
                                      ducing the bill to provide the hundred billion dollars of emergency
                                      rental assistance. I am very proud to cosponsor that.
                                         But given that homeowners typically have higher incomes and
                                      more ability to absorb hits during downturns like this, do you
                                      worry that leaving renters, who are most likely to have lost income
                                      during this crisis, much more so than probably homeowners—do
                                      you worry that leaving them out of assistance could worsen the in-
                                      come and wealth inequity during this crisis?
                                         Ms. Oliva?
                                         Ms. OLIVA. Oh, my apologies. I’m sorry. I wasn’t sure that was
                                      for me.
                                         Yes, of course, we are, because we know that people at zero to
                                      30 percent of area median income are the people who experience
                                      homelessness the most. We know that folks who are extremely-low-
                                      income and very-low-income will have trouble paying their rent.
                                      And that we have this potential cliff coming, as you have men-
                                      tioned and others have mentioned, where there are arrears that
                                      have to be paid, and a one-time stimulus check is not enough to
                                      pay those arrears.
                                         So, emergency rental assistance and some long-term options for
                                      folks who need that is really important so that we are not increas-
                                      ing the gap that already exists, and it is also why we need to take
                                      a racial justice and equity approach as we design these programs
                                      at the State and local levels so that we are paying attention to how
                                      race and ethnicity plays into those gaps. And you can see some of
                                      the details on that in my written testimony.
                                         Mrs. AXNE. Thank you, and thank you for bringing that up, be-
                                      cause I was going to say I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the
                                      impact that the current policy would have on the racial wealth gap
                                      that we are currently seeing, and we certainly need to address that
                                      structural inequity.
                                         Last thing, the history of redlining and discrimination in this
                                      country has led directly to 74 percent of white households being
                                      homeowners, compared to only 44 percent of Black households. Ms.
                                      Hill, or anyone else, do you think targeting assistance only to
                                      homeowners is likely to further exacerbate that gap?
                                         Ms. HILL. Absolutely. And we know from our experience here in
                                      Louisiana with disaster recovery work, that that is what has hap-
                                      pened. When we target resources to homeowners, who tend to be
                                      overwhelmingly white, and we leave out renters, who are dis-
                                      proportionately people of color, then really what we are doing is
                                      just working to perpetuate segregation and inequity.
                                         Mrs. AXNE. Thank you for that. We have a long way to go, and
                                      I am so grateful that we are having this conversation as we look
                                      to addressing these systemic issues across this country. I appre-
                                      ciate all of your support and work on this to everybody who is here
                                      today, so thank you so much.
                                         And I yield back.




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                                         Chairman CLAY. The gentlewoman from Iowa yields back, and
                                      it’s so good to see you too, Cindy.
                                         That is the end of the list of Members to ask questions. I want
                                      to recognize the ranking member for 1 minute for closing remarks.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Thank you, Chairman Clay, for holding this hear-
                                      ing. It has been very informative, and even as we are seeing our
                                      economies open up in most States, it is clear that there are millions
                                      of Americans going through very difficult times.
                                         Our witnesses have provided some very helpful insights that
                                      should inform our thinking moving forward and, as I said earlier,
                                      I have an open mind and I look forward to working together with
                                      both Republicans and Democrats to find solutions as we move for-
                                      ward.
                                         We may have some disagreements on some specific form or sub-
                                      stance of the policy response, but I stand ready to partner with the
                                      chairman and with Democrats and Republicans to try to make sure
                                      we can keep people in their homes and give people stable housing
                                      as we move forward.
                                         Thank you, and I yield back. Thanks for doing this hearing, Mr.
                                      Chairman.
                                         Chairman CLAY. Thank you so much, Mr. Stivers. And I look for-
                                      ward to working with you and all of the members of the sub-
                                      committee in a bipartisan fashion to address some of the most
                                      basic needs that our constituents’ and the citizens of this country
                                      face, and one of them is housing, and a roof over their head. So,
                                      we will move expeditiously in that manner.
                                         I would like to thank our witnesses for your testimony today, too.
                                      I found your insights to be invaluable and we will certainly use
                                      them as guidance as we move forward and consider legislation.
                                         The Chair notes that some Members may have additional ques-
                                      tions for this panel, which they may wish to submit in writing.
                                      Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 5 legis-
                                      lative days for Members to submit written questions to these wit-
                                      nesses and to place their responses in the record. Also, without ob-
                                      jection, Members will have 5 legislative days to submit extraneous
                                      materials to the Chair for inclusion in the record.
                                         This hearing is now adjourned. Thank you.
                                         Mr. STIVERS. Mr. Chairman, have a great day.
                                         Chairman CLAY. You, too. Take care, Steve.
                                         [Whereupon, at 2:06 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]




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                                                                       APPENDIX




                                                                           June 10, 2020




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                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 49 here 42894.049


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                                                                                      87




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 50 here 42894.050


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                                                                                      88




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 51 here 42894.051


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                                                                                      89




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 52 here 42894.052


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                                                                                      90




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 53 here 42894.053


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                                                                                      91




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 54 here 42894.054


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                                                                                      92




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 55 here 42894.055


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                                                                                      93




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 56 here 42894.056


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                                                                                      94




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 57 here 42894.057


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                                                                                      95




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 58 here 42894.058


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                                                                                      96




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 59 here 42894.059


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                                                                                      97




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 60 here 42894.060


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                                                                                      98




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 61 here 42894.061


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                                                                                      99




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 62 here 42894.062


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                                                                                      100




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 63 here 42894.063


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                                                                                      101




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 64 here 42894.064


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                                                                                      102




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 65 here 42894.065


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                                                                                      103




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 66 here 42894.066


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                                                                                      104




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 67 here 42894.067


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                                                                                      105




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 68 here 42894.068


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                                                                                      106




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 69 here 42894.069


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                                                                                      107




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 70 here 42894.070


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                                                                                      108




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 71 here 42894.071


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                                                                                      109




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 72 here 42894.072


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                                                                                      110




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 73 here 42894.073


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                                                                                      111




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 74 here 42894.074


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                                                                                      112




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 75 here 42894.075


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                                                                                      113




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 76 here 42894.076


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                                                                                      114




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 77 here 42894.077


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                                                                                      115




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 78 here 42894.078


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                                                                                      116




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 79 here 42894.079


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                                                                                      117




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 80 here 42894.080


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                                                                                      118




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 81 here 42894.081


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                                                                                      119




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 82 here 42894.082


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                                                                                      120




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 83 here 42894.083


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                                                                                      121




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 84 here 42894.084


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                                                                                      122




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 85 here 42894.085


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                                                                                      123




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 86 here 42894.086


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                                                                                      124




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 87 here 42894.087


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                                                                                      125




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 88 here 42894.088


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                                                                                      126




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 89 here 42894.089


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                                                                                      127




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 90 here 42894.090


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                                                                                      128




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 91 here 42894.091


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                                                                                      129




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 92 here 42894.092


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                                                                                      130




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 93 here 42894.093


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                                                                                      131




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 94 here 42894.094


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                                                                                      132




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 95 here 42894.095


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                                                                                      133




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 96 here 42894.096


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                                                                                      134




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 97 here 42894.097


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                                                                                      135




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 98 here 42894.098


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                                                                                      136




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 99 here 42894.099


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                                                                                      137




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 100 here 42894.100


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                                                                                      138




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 101 here 42894.101


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                                                                                      139




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 102 here 42894.102


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                                                                                      140




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 103 here 42894.103


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                                                                                      141




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 104 here 42894.104


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                                                                                      142




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 105 here 42894.105


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                                                                                      143




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 106 here 42894.106


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                                                                                      144




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 107 here 42894.107


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                                                                                      145




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 108 here 42894.108


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                                                                                      146




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 109 here 42894.109


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                                                                                      147




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 110 here 42894.110


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                                                                                      148




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 111 here 42894.111


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                                                                                      149




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 112 here 42894.112


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                                                                                      150




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 113 here 42894.113


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                                                                                      151




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 114 here 42894.114


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                                                                                      152




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 115 here 42894.115


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                                                                                      153




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 116 here 42894.116


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                                                                                      154




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 117 here 42894.117


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                                                                                      155




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 118 here 42894.118


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                                                                                      156




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 119 here 42894.119


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                                                                                      157




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 120 here 42894.120


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                                                                                      158




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 121 here 42894.121


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                                                                                      159




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 122 here 42894.122


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                                                                                      160




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 123 here 42894.123


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                                                                                      161




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 124 here 42894.124


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                                                                                      162




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 125 here 42894.125


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                                                                                      163




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 126 here 42894.126


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                                                                                      164




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 127 here 42894.127


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                                                                                      165




                                                                                                                                   Insert offset folio 128 here 42894.128


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