21st Century SBA: An Analysis of SBA's Technology Systems (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, July 22, 2020)
Summary
The printed transcript of a hearing titled 21st Century SBA: An Analysis of SBA's Technology Systems, conducted July 22, 2020 before the Subcommittee on Investigations, Oversight, and Regulations of the House Committee on Small Business, 116th Congress (Small Business Committee Document Number 116–089). The subcommittee met in Room 2360 of the Rayburn House Office Building with Chairwoman Judy Chu presiding, as a hybrid hearing under House Resolution 965. Opening statements are by Judy Chu and Ross Spano. The single witness is Guy Cavallo, Deputy Chief Information Officer of the U.S. Small Business Administration, whose prepared statement is printed in the appendix; no written questions or answers are listed.
Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used
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“21st Century SBA: An Analysis of SBA's Technology Systems (House Small Business subcommittee hearing, July 22, 2020).”
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21st CENTURY SBA: AN ANALYSIS OF SBA’S
TECHNOLOGY SYSTEMS
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS,
OVERSIGHT, AND REGULATIONS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
HEARING HELD
JULY 22, 2020
Small Business Committee Document Number 116–089
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
41–300 WASHINGTON : 2021
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELÁZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
ABBY FINKENAUER, Iowa
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
JUDY CHU, California
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American Samoa, Vice Ranking Member
TROY BALDERSON, Ohio
KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ROSS SPANO, Florida
JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina
MELISSA JUNG, Majority Staff Director
JUSTIN PELLETIER, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
KEVIN FITZPATRICK, Staff Director
(II)
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CONTENTS
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Judy Chu ......................................................................................................... 1
Hon. Ross Spano ...................................................................................................... 3
WITNESS
Mr. Guy Cavallo, Deputy Chief Information Officer, U.S. Small Business
Administration, Washington, DC ........................................................................ 5
APPENDIX
Prepared Statement:
Mr. Guy Cavallo, Deputy Chief Information Officer, U.S. Small Business
Administration, Washington, DC ................................................................ 18
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
None.
(III)
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21st CENTURY SBA: AN ANALYSIS OF SBA’S
TECHNOLOGY SYSTEMS
WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 2020
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS,
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS, OVERSIGHT AND
REGULATIONS,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:02 p.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Judy Chu [chairwoman
of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Chu, Evans, Craig, Chabot, Burchett,
and Spano.
Chairwoman CHU. I call the meeting to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at
any time.
I want to thank everyone, especially our witnesses, for joining us
today for our Committee’s hybrid hearing.
I want to make sure to list some important requirements. Let me
begin by saying that standing House and Committee rules and
practice will continue to apply during hybrid proceedings. All mem-
bers are reminded that they are expected to adhere to the standing
rules, including decorum.
During the covered period as designated by the Speaker, the
Committee will operate in accordance with House Resolution 965
and the subsequent guidance from the Rules Committee in a man-
ner that respects the rights of all members to participate.
House regulations require members to be visible through a video
connection throughout the proceedings, so please keep your cam-
eras on. Also, if you have to participate in another proceeding,
please exit this one and log in later.
In the event a member encounters technical issues that prevent
them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the
next available member of the same party, and I will recognize that
member at the next appropriate time slot, provided they return to
the proceedings.
And, finally, remember to remain muted until you are recognized
to minimize background noise. In accordance with the rules estab-
lished under House Resolution 965, staff have been advised to
mute participants only in the event there is inadvertent back-
ground noise.
For those members physically present in the committee room
today, we will also be following the health and safety guidelines
issued by the Attending Physician, which includes social distancing
(1)
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and especially the use of masks. I urge members and staff to wear
masks at all times while in the hearing room, and thank you in ad-
vance for your commitment to a safe environment here today.
I am pleased to be holding this important hearing today to learn
more about the Small Business Administration’s information tech-
nology systems, IT modernization efforts, and cybersecurity strat-
egy. SBA has counted on its technology systems to implement the
programs to help entrepreneurs launch and grow their small busi-
nesses, and millions of small businesses have relied on them over
the past few months to access the assistance they need to survive
the coronavirus pandemic.
I would like to thank Mr. Guy Cavallo, the Deputy Chief Infor-
mation Officer for SBA, for being here today to discuss SBA’s ef-
forts to modernize its systems and address some of the technical
issues that have hampered the rollout of economic relief programs.
Ineffective IT systems have been a persistent problem at SBA.
While significant progress has been made to upgrade the system in
recent years, the magnitude of the pandemic has demonstrated the
need for more modern systems that are safer, faster, and more effi-
cient at delivering services to America’s small businesses.
Six months after the first confirmed case in the U.S., our country
remains in the grips of the coronavirus pandemic. Small businesses
have relied on Congress and SBA to help them survive the nec-
essary State-ordered public health lockdowns, restrictions and op-
erating capacity, and significant revenue losses resulting from our
fight to contain this virus.
This crisis has made it necessary for unprecedented numbers of
small businesses to rely on your agency’s technology to access loan
applications, connect to their local resource partners, find trans-
lated resources, and answer their urgent questions in a timely
manner. However, several technical issues have arisen during the
pandemic, making it both frustrating and difficult for small busi-
nesses to receive the relief they need in a timely manner.
This Committee acknowledges the toll that this unprecedented
level of activity has taken on SBA systems, and we commend you
and your staff for working around the clock to fix several of the
issues. The coronavirus has placed a historic burden on SBA, and
we in Congress must ensure that you have the resources you need
to assist the American people. But many of these system weak-
nesses have been known for years and should have been addressed
and modernized long before this pandemic. In fact, some of the
issues were brought to SBA’s attention as early as 2014 by the
Government Accountability Office and, in fact, there was a 2011 re-
port from the GAO before that.
According to the Committee on Oversight and Reform’s IT score-
card, SBA has made improvements to its IT infrastructure overall,
but is still scoring a D on cybersecurity. This is particularly con-
cerning given the cybersecurity breach that occurred with the EIDL
application.
In late March, SBA detected a vulnerability in the EIDL applica-
tion, which allowed applicants’ personally identifiable information
to be viewed by other applicants. Even more troubling, the individ-
uals that were potentially affected were not notified until mid-
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April, nearly 20 days after the data breach, and the notification
was simply a paper letter.
The Committee heard from several recipients who were inquiring
whether it was a scam or a verifiable document. At the time, SBA
had failed to make any public announcement about the breach,
again, showing a lack of transparency that had been a consistent
concern for the committee throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. Af-
fected businesses lost their place in the queue, were forced to re-
apply, and then were shut out of the program when SBA
inexplicably limited applications to only agricultural businesses.
We recognize that your office was not directly involved in those
decisions, but they demonstrate the tremendous downstream im-
pacts faced by small businesses that were affected by the initial IT
systems failure.
Other problems that arose during the pandemic were related to
SBA’s loan processing system, E-Tran, which is a legacy system
that SBA had planned to replace in an effort to modernize its IT
infrastructure. The issues concerning E-Tran are not new. In 2014,
the GAO reported that SBA may be unprepared for a large volume
of applications to be submitted quickly following future disasters
which could result in delays in loan funds for disaster victims. And
in this report, SBA actually stated that E-Tran would be replaced
by 2015. However, in 2020, SBA is still relying on the same system.
Shortly after the launch of the Paycheck Protection Program por-
tal, the system was inundated by applicants, causing it to go offline
for 4 hours. The system then crashed again a second time when the
PPP portal reopened in late April.
While we recognize that SBA quickly increased bandwidth to in-
crease the system—to address the system crash both times, the
agency cannot rely on a system that is incapable of meeting high
demand in a crisis.
The Committee plans to explore what steps must be taken to im-
prove SBA’s IT systems moving forward in order to prevent these
issues from reoccurring should Congress reauthorize or authorize
further small business assistance as we continue to fight the virus
or if a natural disaster should strike and compound the stress on
SBA’s systems. It is imperative that SBA’s technology systems be
modernized to meet the demands of the 21st century.
With that, I look forward to hearing from Mr. Cavallo on the
changes SBA plans to implement to its technology systems and
what he needs from Congress in order to address these technical
failures to ensure the SBA IT infrastructure is fully prepared in
the future.
I now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Ross Spano, for his
opening statement.
Mr. SPANO. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
While all of the oversight hearings we hold in this Committee are
important, examining the state of the SBA’s information technology
is truly one of the most vital. We live in an era dominated by mod-
ern technology and the internet, so there is little else that has
changed the way we live our lives so dramatically.
This pandemic has underscored our reliance on modern tech-
nology to do almost anything and everything, from running a suc-
cessful business and allowing employees to telework, to socializing
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while maintaining social distancing. Technology has been and will
continue to be critical in allowing the private sector and public gov-
ernment to respond to and recover from this pandemic. The SBA
is no exception.
As technology continues to improve, implementing innovative
technological solutions to streamline manual processes or upgrade
legacy systems are actions that any responsible Federal agency
should consider. Once these new technologies are deployed, it is im-
perative that the agency ensure they are secure, operational, and
meet mission objectives.
For instance, the SBA’s decision to move from mail-in, paper-
based application processes to online loan and contracting applica-
tions certainly has advantages for both the agency and the partici-
pant. Unfortunately, it also comes with a host of other challenges,
for instance; vulnerability to computer bugs, data breaches, and
cyber attacks.
As has been widely reported in the news, the technological sys-
tem supporting the Paycheck Protection Program suffered from a
number of these mishaps. Reports regarding the Economic Injury
Disaster Loan Program have not fared well. While the EIDL ad-
vanced program intended to provide emergency grants to small
businesses within 3 days of their application being filed, the SBA
took nearly 6 weeks to approve less than 1 percent of the total ap-
plication backlog.
Even though I appreciate the SBA’s recent efforts to meet the
surging demand, reports show that little more than a third of the
amount Congress authorized to support the EIDL program has
been approved. Adding insult to injury, a glitch in the EIDL portal
led to nearly 8,000 EIDL applicants’ personal information being
compromised, including Social Security numbers, birth dates, and
addresses.
I cannot overstate just how dire the situation is for small busi-
nesses everywhere in this country, including in my own district.
They need these funds now. And if technology is the solution or the
problem, we need to take appropriate action immediately.
Addressing the issues with SBA’s loan programs is not the only
reason why I am interested in hearing from you today, Mr. Cavallo.
As the SBA continues to invest in new technologies, it is impera-
tive that the agency ensures that the investment was worth it, that
the outcome achieves the intended goals.
The SBA has made some questionable IT investments into its
contracting and business development programs, making various
attempts to streamline application processes and enhance staff
oversight and management of these programs. Unfortunately, we
have seen some of these investments fail in the past. And I under-
stand the SBA is now investing in a new technological initiative
called certify.sba.gov, to which over $27 million has already been
spent, but the system has not yet fully realized its intended pur-
pose.
Indeed, according to the Committee on Oversight and Reform’s
December 2019 Federal Information Technology Acquisition Re-
form, or FITARA, report, the SBA received a C grade for its IT
portfolio management, indicating that the Office of Management
and Budget found the SBA demonstrated poor management of com-
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modity IT spending in alignment with agency mission and business
functions. Also deeply troubling is the D grade that the SBA re-
ceived in the FITARA report for cybersecurity, indicating severe de-
ficiencies in cybersecurity measures taken by the SBA.
I understand that we live in unprecedented times and the wheels
of government often move slower than the pace of technology. How-
ever, we have to strive to do better and be better. Small businesses
across the country depend on the SBA to get it right, and we must
do all we can to ensure the agency’s success.
Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back.
Chairwoman CHU. Thank you, Ranking Member Spano.
I need to explain how this hearing will proceed. Each witness
will have 5 minutes to provide a statement and each committee
member will have 5 minutes for questions. Please ensure that your
microphone is on when you begin speaking and that you return to
mute when finished.
With that, I would like to introduce Mr. Guy Cavallo, the Deputy
Chief Information Officer at SBA. In this capacity, Mr. Cavallo pro-
vides leadership and direction in the creation, development, and
execution of the agency’s information technology management pro-
grams. He was previously the executive director of IT operations at
Transportation Security Administration. He has also had an im-
pressive career in the private sector implementing innovative tech-
nologies in governmental organizations.
We welcome you to the committee, and you are now recognized
for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MR. GUY CAVALLO, DEPUTY CHIEF INFORMA-
TION OFFICER, U.S. SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION,
WASHINGTON, DC
Mr. CAVALLO. Chairwoman Chu, Ranking Member Spano, and
members of the Subcommittee, Thank you for the opportunity to
discuss how the Small Business Administration has modernized
and transformed——
Mr. SPANO. Excuse me, sir. Could you make sure your micro-
phone is on?
Mr. CAVALLO. The button is on. How is that?
Mr. SPANO. That is perfect.
Mr. CAVALLO. There we go. Thank you.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to talk about how SBA has
modernized and transformed its IT and cybersecurity capabilities,
which we know are critical to enhancing our service delivery to citi-
zens and small businesses.
In July of 2017, SBA Chief Information Officer Maria Roat testi-
fied before the House Small Business Committee describing her vi-
sion for a 21st century SBA. Today, SBA has turned much of her
vision into reality.
With the strong executive leadership and support of Administra-
tors Carranza and McMahon, SBA is now viewed as a technology
leader in the Federal Government.
Over the past 3-1/2 years, we have implemented the necessary
building blocks to deliver and accelerate our IT modernization.
That foundation includes a reliable network infrastructure and
leveraging the power of the cloud. In early 2017, I served as the
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executive sponsor of SBA’s cloud journey. Within 82 days, we built
SBA’s first cloud, an accomplishment that may take others a year-
plus to achieve. With that network and cloud platform in place,
SBA could now leverage those foundations to meet our critical role
in the upcoming CARES Act.
Having SBA’s cloud operational and leveraging commercial cloud
services to support our modernization efforts were critical in our
overnight move to nearly 100 percent telework status for the SBA
staff and for the thousands of surge workers who may never work
in an actual SBA office.
I also want to highlight that one of the most significant benefits
of moving to the cloud has been the tremendous improvement in
our cybersecurity protections. For example, since April of 2018, our
security team has partnered with DHS to take down 1,380 mali-
cious websites that we uncovered by stopping phishing attempts
into SBA.
Now, based upon our enhanced cybersecurity capabilities, we
conducted two pilots with DHS to validate the cloud protections.
Our pilots on the Trusted Internet Connection and the continual
diagnostic and mitigation programs allowed us to successfully dem-
onstrate alternative ways of meeting the goals of those programs,
and our results led DHS to modify the Federal security policies for
those programs.
In addition to those cybersecurity capabilities, we leveraged the
cloud to build new CARES Act solutions, including a new portal for
the $10,000 EIDL advances, a front end to the lender gateway for
banks to access the E-Tran system, an updated find a lender tool
to display eligible lenders of the PPP program by ZIP Code, and a
new customer service hub for better tracking all the millions of cit-
izen requests we receive.
All of these new solutions were implemented within 8 days or
less. My team worked round the clock to make sure that we had
these in place as fast as possible.
We also accelerated implementing GSA’s login.gov common iden-
tity management solution, which allows a small business to use one
set of credentials when accessing any SBA system or any other gov-
ernment portals that adopted login.gov. However, I do want to ac-
knowledge that until these new systems were in place, several of
the legacy systems did experience outages and slow response times
from the overwhelming demand.
For example, the disaster loan access portal began suffering out-
ages due to the demand exceeding its capacity. Within a day, we
implemented a replacement interim cloud solution to intake loan
applications until the final replacement EIDL rapid intake portal
was ready. However, while making multiple system changes in the
middle of the night in such a short time, a mistake was made in
one of the system’s configuration which accidentally exposed PII
data for some individuals. Within 3 hours, we discovered that expo-
sure and quickly fixed the problem. And to support the potential
exposure of those individuals that may have been exposed, we have
offered free credit monitoring services.
There is still much to do, but the positive steps taken over the
last 3-1/2 years have positioned SBA to be able to continue modern-
izing our legacy systems.
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And I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak to that
today, and I look forward to the Committee’s questions.
Chairwoman CHU. Thank you, Mr. Cavallo.
I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes for questions.
Mr. Cavallo, it wasn’t just a few persons who had their data ex-
posed; it was 8,000 individuals. There were so many egregious
things that happened in that situation where EIDL data was ex-
posed, the data of small business owners who were trying to get
relief from COVID-19, and it caused SBA to tell the applicants to
reapply, they lost their place in line, and the applications were sub-
sequently closed to anyone who wasn’t in the agricultural industry.
So, Mr. Cavallo, how did this breach happen, and what specific
steps did SBA take to fix the issue that caused the data breach?
Also, the breach occurred on March 25. Why did it take until April
13 for SBA to notify these small businesses who may have been af-
fected?
Mr. CAVALLO. I want to thank you for asking that question.
First of all, I want to clarify that we did not suffer a data breach;
we suffered a data exposure. The big difference is that there was
no data break-in, any download of data. They are both serious, but
a potential data exposure is quite different, and as I said, we were
not breached.
I can tell you how it happened. My staff was working around the
clock, pulling all-nighters, trying to get the new loan portal set up
as fast as possible. A human error was made at 6 a.m., which
caused the potential for that exposure to occur, and within 3 hours,
we implemented taking the portal down and limiting the exposure.
But we followed our standard procedures for dealing with a PII
exposure, which means we reported it immediately to US-Cert
within an hour. We convened our executive response team on
March 29. That team decided to make sure that everybody that
was potentially a user during those 3 hours would receive credit
monitoring services.
And then, ma’am, we don’t have in place a contract to pay for
credit monitoring services, so we had to go to GSA to compete the
credit monitoring services, which we did on March 29 and 30. Once
that was awarded, we brought the vendor on board. They reviewed
the logs and found that there were some logs that we didn’t have
valid addresses and information, and then they were able to issue
the letter on April 13 to those individuals offering credit moni-
toring and free call center to use toll free and provide support.
I would have liked that to be faster, but that was how long it
took to get there.
Chairwoman CHU. Well, what it shows is that there clearly
needs to be improvement in SBA’s IT. And I noted that there have
been GAO reports since 2011 expressing concern about this. And
then GAO did another report in 2014, which said that SBA was not
prepared for large volumes of applications that could come in after
a disaster.
Now, I acknowledge that SBA has made some improvements to
its technology system in the IT scorecard, but in the most recent
scorecard, the SBA received a D on cybersecurity, which was its
lowest mark in any category. So what has been the holdup to im-
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provements in this area, and what specific steps has SBA taken to
improve particularly on cybersecurity?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes. One thing I do want to point out that we—
the way the cybersecurity score is calculated, there are two dif-
ferent criteria. One is an assessment from our Inspector General,
and our Inspector General uses the OMB maturity model that
measures eight different domains. To receive a higher score in that,
you must have no KPMG findings in the domain. It is one of the
toughest scores to be able to obtain. My understanding is only one
Federal agency has been able to achieve the top score.
The other component of that is how you are performing on your
cross-agency CAP Goals. In the last 2 years, we have moved from
a 30 percent CAP goal implementation to 80 percent implemented.
So, ma’am, we are taking it very seriously, and we are working
hard to get that score up. We think the combination of those scores
do not accurately reflect where we are today; otherwise, DHS
would not have selected us to pilot two critical cybersecurity pilots
with them that have changed Federal policy. And, in fact, they
have asked us now to help them implement the CDM Program in
a new cloud-based solution.
So, we realize how the scores were obtained. We have taken
many steps to improve our cybersecurity. I highlighted the number
of websites we are taking down. We have full visibility of all at-
tempts to get into SBA. We also—with the PPP and EIDL loans,
implemented geofencing so that a foreign adversary applying from
a foreign country could not even get to the loan system.
So, we are radically different from where we were in 2012 or
2014. Still work to be done, but we would like to see that score in-
crease. I mean, over the last 3 years, we have gone from a D-minus
to a B-plus, and right now, we have the third highest FITARA
score in government.
Chairwoman CHU. Thank you. My time has now expired.
The Ranking Member, Mr. Spano from Florida, is now recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. SPANO. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Mr. Cavallo, I assume that the SBA must have anticipated that
a wave of applications were going to be incoming through the E-
Tran system once the PPP and EIDL launched. However, we all
know there were concerns about that early on, portal crashing,
other technical difficulties that occurred right there at the start.
Were any actions taken or undertaken or any efforts made to
prepare for what, it would seem to me, would have been an antici-
pated load on the E-Tran system?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that question.
Yeah, the E-Tran system is not managed by the Office of the Chief
Information Officer. We partner with our business offices to do
that. It is definitely on our list of systems that need to be modern-
ized, and we are following the CIO Council’s Application Rational-
ization Playbook to determine how to modernize. That is going to
be a long-term project, sir, and that is something that we could not
do between March 1 and when this all hit.
The steps that my office specifically took was that we doubled
the network connectivity speed because we knew there was this in-
flux of people coming. That took a week or two to happen, but we
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were able to get ahead of the surge exceeding the demand. We also
built that front-end lender gateway as a cloud-based application to
basically take the load off on some of the front of E-Tran to allow
our small banks to apply easier. And then we worked with our
partner at the Office of Capital Access to spread out their workday.
So instead of getting hit with all the applications coming in at 9
a.m. from certain banks, they spread out the schedule to be able
to take applications throughout the day.
Those are all things that we could do now to lessen the demand
on E-Tran. The last thing we did is we approved a significant hard-
ware investment to up the horsepower of the E-Tran system, but
it is going to take time to modernize that system. It is a very com-
plex financial system.
So those were the things we could take to support it. Definitely
there were issues and there was trouble along the way, but each
of these steps helped lessen the impact or reduce them from hap-
pening in the future.
Mr. SPANO. Does the continued challenges apparently that you
still have with the E-Tran system, are those impacting the pace,
the slow pace at which the EIDL loans are being processed?
Mr. CAVALLO. I don’t think I can answer that. It is more of a
program office answer on how they are handling the processing. As
I said, the system is up and running, that is——
Mr. SPANO. I guess my question is, you mentioned that prob-
lems with PPP and the EIDL were a function of or based on the
fact that the E-Tran was not built to sustain that level of demand.
What I am asking you is, is the EIDL demand still such that E-
Tran cannot handle the load?
Mr. CAVALLO. From everything I have seen, we seem to be han-
dling the load now.
Mr. SPANO. Okay. So that is not—E-Tran is not the reason for
apparently the slowdown, the slow process of EIDL, as far as you
are concerned?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes. From the technology side, I am seeing that
it is up and that the connectivity is there.
Mr. SPANO. Gotcha.
So the SBA received an additional $2.1 billion for SBA salaries
and expenses intended to help the agency staff up in order to meet
the need generated by the pandemic. Can you tell us how this
money has been spent so far?
Mr. CAVALLO. I can address how we have spent it in the OCIO
office.
Mr. SPANO. With respect to your area.
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes. With us increasing the size of SBA by about
500 percent, I knew immediately that our IT help desk, our net-
work operations center, monitoring and making sure that our net-
works are working fine, and our security operations center pro-
viding cybersecurity, those were all designed for 3,000 to 4,000
users, not well over 12,000. So, we have used the funds to help sup-
plement that, and my staff working in those areas, to make sure
that the connectivity is there, that the cybersecurity protections are
there, that we are not being overwhelmed by it. It has been a slow
process to ramp that up. We are using both temporary Federal em-
ployees and contractors to do that.
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So, in our office, yes, we are all well on the way of staffing up
to deal with this increase of size.
Mr. SPANO. Okay. I only have 20 seconds left. But you talk
about in your testimony that—you discuss in your testimony using
webcasts to connect with small businesses that save thousands of
dollars over the SBA’s previous teleconferencing solution.
My question is, are there any other uses of existing technology
in your arsenal that can be deployed to find other cost-savings ben-
efits?
Mr. CAVALLO. One of the things we did is we stood up a virtual
command center, which saved us the cost of setting up a command
center for our senior leadership to get together. Definitely the web
conferencing, we can host 10,000 businesses at once now at no
extra cost, when before, that would have cost us thousands of dol-
lars. Leveraging the cloud is keeping us from buying more hard-
ware. So that has also been a significant impact.
Mr. SPANO. Thank you.
I yield back, Chair.
Chairwoman CHU. Thank you. The gentleman’s time has ex-
pired. The gentleman yields back.
And now, the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Evans, is now
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Madam Chairperson and Ranking Mem-
ber.
The IRS announced yesterday that they are establishing a new
office to spearhead the efforts to modernize the management of tax-
payer cases. The new office will be responsible for updating its out-
dated IT systems and making several of its processing paper docu-
ments digital.
Would the SBA consider a similar strategy to bring the IT sys-
tem, infrastructure, and management documents into the 21st cen-
tury? And would the office of the CIO be well suited to implement
the strategy?
Mr. CAVALLO. Thank you for that question. As an agency, we
have adopted the Federal CIO Council’s Application Rationalization
Playbook. To put that in non-CIO terms, you basically have a
methodology to look at each information system and decide are you
going to modernize it where it is, are you going to move it to the
cloud, do you need to rewrite it, or do you need to shut the system
down. So, we are going through our major applications looking at
that first before we start spending money just heading down a
modernization path without having a clear direction.
What IRS has done is what I see a lot of the other Federal agen-
cies doing, and we have been doing that from day one. Over the
last 3-1/2 years, we have modernized major parts of SBA. The fi-
nancial systems are by far the biggest and most complex ones, so
we are taking that on next. But we will work closely with the CFO
and Capital Access and ODA on heading down that modernization
path.
I think until we do that analysis, we won’t be able to provide our
CFO, our Administrator what the cost would be to do this so that
they can come, present that to you, but we are doing that home-
work now.
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Mr. EVANS. How could Congress support the SBA in estab-
lishing a new office to spearhead IT becoming modern and digital
across the entire agency?
Mr. CAVALLO. Again, we appreciate all offers of help. Today, we
have a Chief Technology Office that leads our modernization ef-
forts. I am not sure that we would ask for anything additional to
that. As I said, we have the methodology in place that we intend
to use to make the decisions about modernizing systems, and then
through our budget process and through the Administrator, we will
come back to Congress and make those requests for funds when we
are ready.
Mr. EVANS. In mid-April, the SBA announced that on March 25,
it discovered that the application system for the EIDL may have
disregarded personal information to other applicants of the pro-
gram. What personal information was divulged?
Mr. CAVALLO. Let me check for that, sir. I don’t want to give
you a wrong answer.
Looks like I don’t have that information with me. There was a
formal report that we filed with US-Cert, so I can supply that in-
formation with you as a follow-up.
Mr. EVANS. Okay. No problem.
Since I am talking about it, for EIDL application status, the only
updates provided are processing and then accepted or rejected. This
has caused severe stress for small business owners in my district
who have great difficulty checking the status of the application. Is
the SBA working on improving the status checking on these loan
applications? And let me give you a followup real quick. What is
the timeline for improving loan application status checking?
Mr. CAVALLO. The Office of the Chief Information Officer does
the enterprise networking and connectivity and infrastructure.
What you are asking about is a program office decision that is run
by the Office of Disaster Assistance.
Mr. EVANS. Right.
Mr. CAVALLO. So, I can’t answer that for them.
Mr. EVANS. Okay. Real quick, I think I——
I yield back to the Chair my remaining time.
Chairwoman CHU. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
And now, the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Burchett, is now
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. BURCHETT. Thank you, Chairlady, Ranking Member.
Eighty-six percent of the PPP loans in Tennessee in the Second
District where I represent are under $150,000. Do you know how
many of those are nationwide and the amount, total amount that
would be?
Mr. CAVALLO. No, sir. That is not something that I would have
in the Chief Information Office.
Mr. BURCHETT. How would I go about getting that?
Mr. CAVALLO. We can provide that from our business offices
that would have that up to date daily.
Mr. BURCHETT. Great. If you all could send that to me, that
would be great.
And I have been hearing some complaints the E-Tran system is
too complicated, especially for those who are new to SBA lending.
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What can the SBA do to make its public-facing technology systems
more user friendly?
Mr. CAVALLO. Again, a very good question. It is something that
my team is dedicated to do. A lot of the new programs that I high-
lighted that we implemented, especially for the CARES Act, are
much easier to use than the legacy systems. And whenever we can,
for something like E-Tran that we can’t modernize overnight, what
we are trying to do is put a new front end in front of it so that
the small business owner or the citizen is able to more easily inter-
act with the system. We were able to do that successfully for a
number of these programs.
Mr. BURCHETT. Right.
Mr. CAVALLO. Overall, it is a major initiative to improve the
customer experience for any SBA user. I mentioned earlier that we
have moved to login.gov, which is a common way that GSA pro-
vides the Federal agencies, where before, if you logged in to sepa-
rate SBA systems, you might have to fill out your company’s infor-
mation over and over again. Again, we are taking steps to elimi-
nate that and use more of these common platforms, so you have
one identity.
Mr. BURCHETT. Okay. Do you feel that the SBA has the capac-
ity to manage all these new lenders moving forward?
Mr. CAVALLO. Again, from the CIO’s office, we have been able
to absorb the 500 percent increase in staff and support the sys-
tems. The program offices that actually work with those lenders,
they would be better able to answer that question, sir.
Mr. BURCHETT. Okay. All righty. Thank you very much.
Chairwoman CHU. Okay. At this point, the gentleman yields
back.
And at this point, all the members present have asked a ques-
tion. So we actually have time for a second round of questions, so
please be present if you would like to go a second round. I will
start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
Mr. Cavallo, when we arranged this committee hearing, we dis-
covered that your Office of the Chief Information Office only over-
sees 37 percent of SBA’s IT program. And this raises several new
concerns, including why SBA would take such a disjointed ap-
proach to IT and cybersecurity, and why it did not entrust its chief
information officer with managing IT for the PPP and EIDL, and
to what extent the deputy CIO was brought in to help when PPP
and EIDL both encountered significant technology system failures.
So why is the SBA’s IT staff decentralized? Who controls the re-
maining 63 percent, and how has it helped or hindered SBA’s abil-
ity to respond to the coronavirus pandemic?
Mr. CAVALLO. Thank you for that question, ma’am. You know,
SBA has long had a history of being decentralized, and one thing
in a decentralized world is that you get some of the IT staff closer
to the program operations than staying in a central location. What
we have done is partner with those offices. Most of those staff
members are in the Office of Disaster Assistance and the other pro-
gram offices. We partnered with them throughout this process.
Going back to your question, how involved were we in all of this,
we were very involved. None of the program offices went off and
worked on their own on this. We put teams together and, like I
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said, sometimes pulling all-nighters to get these new programs in
place so that lenders could apply.
There are different models for IT. Like I said, right now at SBA,
we are more decentralized, so what we have done over the years
is make sure that we have a strong partnership with those offices.
The CIO Office does have FITARA approval of every IT procure-
ment of $50,000 or more. So, if an office tried to do something with-
out having us involved, there is a hard stop that they can’t proceed
without the CIO.
So, we have worked very well together. We spend time at each
other’s conferences and work together as a team. So right now, the
model is working for us.
Chairwoman CHU. But would there be greater improvement if
this operation was centralized?
Mr. CAVALLO. That is a great political science debate over time.
We can find as many people arguing that centralizing everything
is better than decentralizing, and we can find just as many people
arguing with that.
I think, Madam Chairwoman, the important part is that we part-
ner together. If we ran independently, I would absolutely give you
a different story. But we work so well together that it doesn’t mat-
ter who we report to, that we are all pulling together in the same
path of making sure that we have these systems up and oper-
ational as much as possible. So, I really can’t give you a better an-
swer than that.
Chairwoman CHU. Well, were you aware of the deficiencies with
the portals used to implement the Paycheck Protection Program
prior to its launch, and did the Office of Capital Access request as-
sistance?
Mr. CAVALLO. As far as deficiencies, I am not sure which part
you are talking about. As far as just the recommendation that they
be expanded, yes, we were working with them on those expansions
before that point. Just in the last year, we have added our cyberse-
curity coverage across their systems, which previously were done
independently. So, yeah, we have worked well together, and they
have asked for our help and we have jumped in and helped them
throughout this process. For example, putting a front end to E-
Tran was something we did together. We did not force that on
them. They recognized that we had the expertise in our office to do
the new cloud-based systems. They had the expertise in E-Tran.
And we used both teams together to get that new front end put in
as quickly as possible.
Chairwoman CHU. And I know you have—the CIO has an an-
nual budget of $28 million. What percentage of this is towards im-
proving cybersecurity?
Mr. CAVALLO. Off the top of my head, I would say that—again,
our move to the cloud was our biggest eye opener on cloud cyberse-
curity capabilities, so we got a benefit from that right away. We are
probably spending $13 million of that on cyber, and everything that
we are doing is based on cyber.
One thing that my development teams do is we have security
built into it so that it is not an afterthought. So, I can’t give you
a number for all of that because they are part of the team, but we
take our cyber very seriously. And, in fact, as I mentioned earlier,
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DHS relies on us as being one of their prime agencies that they go
to on how best to do cyber.
Chairwoman CHU. Okay. My time has expired.
Now, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member from Flor-
ida, Mr. Spano, for 5 minutes.
Mr. SPANO. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Mr. Cavallo, you referenced a couple of times now putting a front
end onto the system. Can you explain to those of us who are com-
puter illiterates what that means?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes. It is great to have IT talk. You can have,
even back to the old green screen days, a very difficult and complex
screen to fill out that the data goes into in an old legacy system,
or we can put a new web page that has dropdowns and colors and
you can see exactly where you are, and the data still goes into the
legacy system. So that is——
Mr. SPANO. It is the way that the user interfaces with the sys-
tem, more user-friendly essentially.
Mr. CAVALLO. Yeah. We have simplified the user interface,
made it easier for them to access the system than the old——
Mr. SPANO. But you can’t conduct substantive kind of funda-
mental changes to the system with these front-end patches, I
guess?
Mr. CAVALLO. No. That is where you need to do the full mod-
ernization and look at the right path.
Mr. SPANO. Got it. Okay.
It is our understanding that the SBA has spent approximately
$27 million on its new certify.sba.gov system. Do you have an up-
dated figure on that?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes, I do. If I brought it with me.
I will say we are in the process of re-platforming Certify. Last
year, the CIO and the CFO stopped the current development,
which was the number that you are referencing. It was custom
coded, so it meant that everything had to be written from scratch,
and the decision was made that that was not a path to continue
down. And what we have done since November, we have spent $3.5
million to rewrite the WOSB Program and HUBZone Program as
the first two out on software as a service, which simply means in-
stead of writing every line of code to be a database or to be that
screen, we leverage the power of preexisting software.
So, we just launched the new WOSB version last week, using
that software as a service. It is a platform that we are using across
SBA to do our citizen reporting. The ODA team is using it for their
disaster portal.
So instead of being a standalone, custom-built application, we are
moving Certify to a common platform that will give us a 360-degree
view of all of our interactions with customers. So, we are in the
middle of that rewrite.
Mr. SPANO. Okay. Prior to the Certify system, there was an-
other system that kind of went south, from what I have heard.
Mr. CAVALLO. Yeah.
Mr. SPANO. And now, it seems like this one, we were using it
for a while, and now we are doing main wholesale changes to it,
it seems, based on your explanation there. Is that usual to have
changes and move to different programs and for them not to be ef-
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fective and just to move from one to the next? Help me understand
because, you know, I am not a techie, but it just seems like that
is very inefficient.
Mr. CAVALLO. That is a great question. It is all a factor of time.
Today, my opinion is if you can have a vendor supply the platform
so that they are responsible for doing updates, they are doing the
code things, like with Office 365, Microsoft is updating Word and
Outlook and all of those programs, and then you just write your
code on top of that, then you have the power of a major vendor pro-
viding your cybersecurity, making sure everything is patched, that
any potential breaches or attacks from foreign adversaries are cov-
ered. Moving away from custom code to that is absolutely some-
thing I would do a hundred times out of a hundred times.
Mr. SPANO. But that is not what we are operating under cur-
rently. We are doing it in-house?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yeah. The new Certify program that we just
launched last week——
Mr. SPANO. Okay. It is moving?
Mr. CAVALLO. That is on this new platform.
Mr. SPANO. I see.
Mr. CAVALLO. Like I said, we have WOSB as the first one out
of the gate, HUBZone will be next. But, yeah, the rest of the pro-
gram has a long legacy.
Mr. SPANO. Okay. So let me get your assurances, as much as
you can give it to me sitting here, based on the fact that we have
kind of failed here a couple of times now at this. Do you feel con-
fident that this new way forward is actually going to work like we
intend it to work? It is going to be an appropriate, responsible in-
vestment for the American taxpayer?
Mr. CAVALLO. Like I said, from a technology standpoint, getting
out of custom code, whether you put it in the cloud or whether you
kept it on premise, absolutely is the right direction to go today. You
know, the legacy systems that are all custom code are what is
keeping agencies up at night. So, I think we have made the right
choice and we are headed in the right direction.
The Office of Disaster Assistance has 2,500 users already in the
new system, so I think what we are seeing differently, instead of
being its own standalone system run by just the GCBD office, we
are seeing more buy-in to a platform across the SBA offices, which
helps us break out of silos of dataware. If you asked our offices can
you give me data for my district, we actually have to go to different
systems to give you that data. Where we are headed to is that will
all be very simple common, so that one office knows what your cit-
izen did versus another visiting another office.
Mr. SPANO. I see. Thank you.
Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman CHU. Okay. The gentleman’s time has expired.
And now, the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Evans, is recog-
nized for 5 minutes.
Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Madam Chair.
My understanding, this is the first year that the SBA has had
the ability to transfer funds to its working capital to upgrade IT
equipment?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes.
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Mr. EVANS. Okay. What are the priorities moving forward then?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes, thank you for asking that. Yes, last year,
was the first year that SBA was able to implement a working cap-
ital fund. So, we have had less than a year of having that fund
available. And at the end of last fiscal year, we were able to seed
that with $6 million.
We have set up a governance model at SBA where the CIO and
the CFO manage that working capital fund. The offices may pro-
pose——
Mr. EVANS. While you are at it then, can you tell me, in addi-
tion, what has SBA done with the $6 million then?
Mr. CAVALLO. Yes. We have made priorities to—most of it is
going towards modernizing systems. Part of it went to modify the
Certify system. We have also put part of it into updating and mod-
ernizing the EDMIS system. So, there are about four or five dif-
ferent areas.
Sir, we did not use it to buy any hardware. Everything that was
put into that fund we have dedicated to modernizing new systems.
I don’t know how the end of the fiscal year will end up, if we get
to supplement that with another influx of money, but right now,
that is 2-year money. So. the programs that we started this year,
if they need to go past the fiscal year, we were counting spending
some of that $6 million to keep them going until they are finished,
like the EDMIS program. But, as I said, this was the first year of
the agency having that fund.
Mr. EVANS. My understanding when the paycheck protection
portal was launched, the E-Transfer system where lenders sub-
mitted borrower applications went offline for as long as 4 hours. On
April 27, upon reopening, the PP portal crashed again. I heard
from many lenders, you can imagine, in my home city of Philadel-
phia about the frustration in using this system, which caused them
much stress.
How did the office of the CIO work with the Office of Capital Ac-
cess to recidivise the issues and relaunch the system?
Mr. CAVALLO. Sure, yeah. What I mentioned earlier is that one
thing that we saw was that the amount of users hitting the traffic
from outside was growing tremendously, so we increased the band-
width connectivity to it so that that would not be a limiting factor.
And we put in a new front end to make it easier to access the sys-
tem, like the Lender Gateway. There were hiccups along the way
because you have a very legacy system and you have a brand-new
system. I believe we figured it out through this time, and it should
be much easier and better now. But there definitely were hiccups
in the early days with the tremendous volume that we were facing.
Mr. EVANS. So how successful do you think you have been, if
you had to kind of rate it in terms as a result of you revisiting it?
Mr. CAVALLO. I think for an agency the size of SBA to respond
to all that we have responded to, that I can’t commend higher my
staff and the other program offices’ staffs for stepping in. We know
that—we have talked about it throughout this meeting—in the
early days, the first week or two or three, there were significant
problems, but everybody jumped into it. So I would give us a pretty
high rating today.
Mr. EVANS. Okay. I thank you.
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Thank you, Madam Chair. And I yield back the balance of my
time.
Chairwoman CHU. Well, thank you.
[Inaudible] now all of the members have asked their questions,
so I would now like to close.
And I thank you, Mr. Cavallo, for your testimony today on SBA’s
technology systems, IT modernization efforts, and help addressing
its cybersecurity issues.
While I understand that the demands on these technology sys-
tems is unprecedented, several of these issues were preventable.
SBA needs to have an IT infrastructure in place moving forward
that can scale and respond to the high volume of applicants in need
of support during COVID-19.
Several of the technical issues that arose affected the ability of
small businesses to access loans, and the complicated and difficult
process of applying placed another unnecessary burden on small
businesses that were already struggling to stay open.
The Committee looks forward to working with you in the coming
months to address these technical issues and make sure they are
working effectively so SBA can implement its programs effectively
and meet the needs of millions of small businesses that are relying
on you to help them stay afloat.
I ask unanimous consent that members have 5 legislative days
to submit statements and supporting materials for the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
And if there is no further business before the committee, we are
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:58 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Æ
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