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Home Source documents Exhibit 103 — Videotape Deposition via Zoom (Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 142-4)

Exhibit 103 — Videotape Deposition via Zoom (Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 142-4)

Factual Summary

Grice testifies Chain Bridge's brief pause in contacting Gula on March 25-26 was "a small pause for a few hours while the bank performed the necessary diligence," not a cutoff, and that senior management wanted to "control the conversation" to avoid inconsistent messaging. He testifies Chain Bridge's document requests (twice asking for contracts, never provided) were reasonable and that a screenshot Gula supplied was "very low quality information" insufficient to support the transaction to the OCC. He rejects that capital-ratio urgency motivated the bank's actions ("I don't see any evidence that this motivated the actions taken by Chain Bridge at all"), attributing the ICS-related emails to prudent contingency planning instead. He testifies contacting a counterparty bank's own client directly — which several other witnesses called unusual — is, in his banking experience, normal practice, illustrating with an anecdote of his own bank contacting a "church" customer's counterparty and discovering a misrepresentation. Grice calls the bank's afternoon-of-the-26th decision to end the relationship "perfectly reasonable given what they had just experienced." Asked about California's later conduct, Grice testifies he was unaware, until asked in this deposition, that "California ultimately... wired... half a billion dollars to a Chinese company that had never made masks before and is now in receipt of those masks."

Key Facts

  • New fact, disclosed through cross-examination rather than affirmatively documented elsewhere in this docket: California reportedly completed a subsequent wire of roughly $500 million to a different, previously-inexperienced Chinese mask manufacturer after the Blue Flame transaction was cancelled — put to the witness by counsel, not independently confirmed here.
  • Grice directly disputes that capital-ratio concerns motivated Chain Bridge's conduct, in tension with Richardson's internal emails (Exhibits 29/59) citing "problems on our capital ratios," and with Williamson's own recorded comment about "a really big impact on our capital ratios" (Exhibit 101/142-2) — reproduced as the expert's contrary opinion, not adjudicated.
  • Grice defends direct counterparty-client contact as standard practice, contrasting with Schoeppe's disclaimed knowledge on the same point (Exhibit 102/142-3).
  • Grice declines to opine on whether the deposit size was a capital-reserve concern for a bank Chain Bridge's size: "that's not my expertise."

Source Caveats

  • Marked Confidential; excerpted testimony only.
  • The California-$500-million-wire claim is put to the witness by opposing counsel during cross-examination; Grice states he had no prior knowledge of it, and this summary does not treat it as an established fact.
  • Grice's opinions are his own expert conclusions retained by the defense and are attributed as such, not treated as adjudicated findings.
Date
2021-05-20

Cite this document

“Exhibit 103 — Videotape Deposition via Zoom (Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD Document 142-4).” Original at ecf.vaed.uscourts.gov, dated 2021-05-20. Archived at Pandemic Darlings, https://pandemicdarlings.com/source-documents/2021-05-20-page-1-v-chain-bridge-bank-n-a/, SHA-256 9a4c943e6ae9157197a72070cb258cf400164e922352335bf68a65f895b01178.

Full text

Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD   Document 142-4   Filed 05/20/21   Page 1 of 8 PageID#
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                      EXHIBIT 103
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD   Document 142-4 Filed 05/20/21       Page 2 of 8 PageID#
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                                  CONFIDENTIAL

                                                                       Page 1

 1                  CONFIDENTIAL - CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
 2                             US DISTRICT COURT
                     FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
 3
               BLUE FLAME MEDICAL LLC,
 4                Plaintiff,
                       v.                                  Civil Action No.
 5             CHAIN BRIDGE BANK N.A.,                     1:20-cv-00658
               JOHN J. BROUGH, and DAVID
 6             M. EVINGER,
                  Defendants.
 7                                                  X

               CHAIN BRIDGE BANK, N.A.,
 8                Third-Party Plaintiff,
                       v.
 9             JP MORGAN CHASE BANK,
               N.A.,
10                Third-Party Defendant.
11
12                    VIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION VIA ZOOM OF:
13                         CHARLES H. GRICE VOLUME I
14                           FRIDAY, APRIL 9, 2021
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24           REPORTED BY:
             SILVIA P. WAGE, CCR, CRR, RPR
25           JOB NO. 4528853

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                                                 Page 2                                                              Page 4
      1          CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                          1     CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2                                                                        2   A L S O P R E S E N T:
      3                                                                        3
                                                                                   ETHAN BEARMAN, ESQ.
                              APRIL 9, 2021
                                                                               4   BLUE FLAME MEDICAL LLC
     4                        7:59 A.M. CENTRAL
                                                                               5
     5            Videotape deposition via Zoom of                                 GABRIEL TORRES, ESQ.
     6      CHARLES GRICE VOLUME I, pursuant to agreement                      6   JP MORGAN CHASE
     7      before SILVIA P. WAGE, a Certified Shorthand                       7
     8      Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Registered                      JOSHUA GLICK, ESQ.
     9      Professional Reporter, and Notary Public for the                   8   JP MORGAN CHASE
    10      States of New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania.                   9
    11
                                                                                   ROBERT RUDIS
                                                                              10   VIDEOGRAPHER
    12
                                                                              11
    13                                                                        12
    14                                                                        13
    15                                                                        14
    16                                                                        15
    17                                                                        16
    18                                                                        17
    19                                                                        18
                                                                              19
    20
                                                                              20
    21
                                                                              21
    22                                                                        22
    23                                                                        23
    24                                                                        24
    25                                                                        25
                                                                     Page 3                                                        Page 5
      1      CONFIDENTIAL - CHARLES H GRICE VOL I                              1      CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   A P P E A R A N C E S:
                                                                               2                I N D EX
          SCHULTE ROTH & ZABEL LLP                                             3   WITNESS: CHARLES H. GRICE                    PAGE
      4   Attorneys for Plaintiffs Blue Flame Medical LLC
          919 Third Avenue
                                                                               4   EXAMINATION BY MR. WHITE                      10
      5   New York, New York 10022                                             5               EX H I B I T S
          (212) 756-2000                                                       6    NO.          DESCRIPTION              PAGE
      6   Pete white@srz com
          Angela garcia@srz com                                                7   Exhibit Pl 16 Expert Report of Charles H. 14
      7   Nathaniel palrner@srz com                                                          Grice February 12, 2021
      8
          Gregory ketcharn-colwill@srz com
          Kenny ukabiala@srz com
                                                                               8   Exhibit Pl 17 Appendix B to Subpart B of 114
          BY: PETER WHITE, ESQ                                                               Part 210 Article 4A, Funds
      9   BY: ANGELA GARCIA, ESQ                                               9             Transfers
     10
          ROBBINS, RUSSELL, ENGLERT, ORSECK, UNTEREINER &
                                                                                   Exhibit P118 § 4A 2 l l . Cancellation and 191
     11   SAUBER LLP                                                          10             Amendment of Payment
          Attorneys for Chain Bridge Bank, NA                                                Order., U.C.C. Text §4A 21 l
     12   2000 K St NW 4th floor
          Washington D C 20006                                                11   Exhibit Pl 19 § 4A 404. Obligation of     229
     13   (202) 775-4500                                                                     Beneficiary's Bank to Pay
          Mrnadden@robbinsrussell com
     14   Lesbrook@robbinsrussell com
                                                                              12             and Give..., U.C.C. Text§
          Gorseck@robbinsrussell com                                                         4A 404
     15   BY: MATTHEW MADDEN, ESQ                                             13
          BY: LESLIE C ESBROOK, ESQ
     16   BY: GARY ORSECK, ESQ                                                14
     17                                                                       15
          WILMER HALE CUTLER PICKERING & DORR LLP
     18   Attorneys for J P Morgan Chase and Deponent
                                                                              16
          7 World Trade Center                                                17
     19   250 Greenwich Street                                                18
          New York, New York 10007
     20   (212) 230-8800                                                      19
          Alan Schoenfeld@wilrnerhale com                                     20
     21   Albinas Prizgintas@wilrnerhale com                                  21
          Maris.sa Medine@wilmerhale com
     22   BY: ALAN SCHOENFELD, ESQ                                            22
          BY: ALBIN AS PRIZGINT AS, ESQ                                       23
     23   BY: MARISSA MEDINE, ESQ
     24
                                                                              24
     25                                                                       25

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      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   did not receive sufficient information from Blue        2   the afternoon on the 26th. So it is not it
      3   Flame Medical as to how they would satisfy the          3   was the morning of the 26th where there is a
      4   purchase order; am I characterizing your                4   pause.
      5   testimony correctly?                                    5        Q. I understand the concern about
      6        A. I'm comfortable with that, yeah.                6   cross talk.
      7        Q. Did Chain Bridge Bank contact Blue              7           Did senior management at the bank
      8   Flame Medical to try to get additional                  8   contact Mr. Gula so that there wouldn't be any
      9   information about how they were going to fill the       9   cross talk?
     10   purchase order?                                        10           MR. MADDEN: Objection to form.
     11        A. My understanding from the record is            11        A. They had they had asked Mr. Gula
     12   they asked twice, once on the phone call with          12   twice just on the documents, right, just on the
     13   Gula and once in a follow up e mail. They looked       13   contracts. He did not provide them.
     14   forward to receiving the contract.                     14           So I know they could have asked a
     15        Q. Is it normal practice for a bank               15   third or a fourth or a fifth time. I don't know
     16        A. exist.                                         16   if that would have changed the outcome. But it's
     17        Q. communications with its customer               17   important when somebody asks you a question in an
     18   at that point?                                         18   urgent situation like this to be responsive.
     19           THE STENOGRAPHER: I'm sorry, I                 19        Q. Well, he was responsive orally during
     20   wasn't quick enough. There was cross talk.             20   the phone conversation, he told them where the
     21        Q. Is it normal for a bank                        21   masks were going to come from, didn't he?
     22        A. (INAUDIBLE.)                                   22        A. But that's different. That's telling
     23        Q. to cut off all communications with             23   me kind of where's Waldo. That's giving me some
     24   its customers during its due diligence                 24   indication of what country they're going to be
     25   investigation?                                         25   produced in is one thing.
                                                      Page 271                                                    Page 273
      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2        A. I still didn't hear the question, I'm           2           I need to be able to see contracts,
      3   sorry.                                                  3   signed contracts that I can tie off against the
      4        Q. Is it normal for a bank to cut off              4   size of the transaction.
      5   all contact with its customer during a due              5        Q. And why do you
      6   diligence investigation?                                6        A. So that's why the screen shot the
      7        A. I don't see this is cutting anything            7   screen shot from Mr. Wong, for example, this is
      8   off. I thought it as a small pause for a few            8   information, but the content of the information
      9   hours while the bank performed the necessary            9   is I would argue quite low, right, it's poor. I
     10   diligence.                                             10   don't know what this is, right. It's not I
     11        Q. If Chain Bridge Bank was interested            11   can't rely on that. So that's not the kind of
     12   in obtaining this information from Blue Flame,         12   information I can show the OCC and back up to the
     13   why did they block all contact with Blue Flame?        13   transaction. So it's not it's not zero
     14           MR. MADDEN: Objection to form.                 14   information. It's just very low quality
     15        A. Because they wanted as I read the              15   information.
     16   record, it was senior management at the bank           16        Q. Why as the beneficiary bank do you
     17   wanting to control the conversation to make sure       17   need information about the source of supply?
     18   that, basically, the bank wasn't engaged in            18        A. Because this transaction is now on
     19   cross talk with the client so they wouldn't have       19   the back of Chain Bridge. As the wire arrives to
     20   consistent messaging. It was also to give them         20   Chain Bridge, a hundred percent of the
     21   time to perform the necessary diligence.               21   responsibility of getting this thing correct is
     22           We are talking about we're talking             22   on the back and the reputation of Chain Bridge
     23   about very few hours, right. We're not talking         23   Bank and for Jimmy.
     24   about a day. We're talking about very few hours.       24        Q. If Chain Bridge Bank had all of these
     25   I think Gula comes to the back at 2 o'clock in         25   concerns about this wire that they were told was

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      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   going to come the next day, why didn't they block       2   which whether it was Bearman or Thomas. I
      3   it?                                                     3   think it was Thomas was confidentially there
      4           MR. MADDEN: Objection to the form.              4   going to be billions of dollars moving through
      5        A I don't know the answer to that                  5   this account through the next several weeks.
      6   question. I just don't know. I don't know if            6   This isn't helpful, right.
      7   you asked them. I don't recall if you asked them        7           What you don't want if you're a
      8   or if they answered it.                                 8   banker is to be used in to be used in a
      9         Q. If they had all these concerns,                9   process where your control and insight into the
     10   should they have blocked it?                           10   business is very limited. Nobody wants to be
     11           MR. MADDEN: Same objection.                    11   used as a conduit.
     12        A I, you know, I just that's kind of              12           And, you know, as I read the record,
     13   hypothetical. I don't know. I mean, I don't            13   I got chilled by what it appeared to be, which is
     14   think honestly, as I read it, I don't know if          14   these guys are moving very fast. This may not be
     15   I even believed it was going to occur given what       15   the good step for Chain Bridge that it was on the
     16   I had seen that day. You know, I know he               16   morning of the 25th. You know, a certain wire
     17   describe first of all, it's a brand new                17   volume, a certain number of wires might be a good
     18   business, right. It's just been created. He            18   match for our risk appetite. Billions of dollars
     19   describes the business. Then he comes in and           19   of wires in a short period of time may not fit.
     20   lobs this bigger surprise, which renders his           20   This may not be a business we want to get into.
     21   first kind of prognosis it just cast a lot of          21   We didn't have that decision until the 26th.
     22   doubts on it, right.                                   22        Q. Well, I thought you said they could
     23           So now we have giant wire coming in,           23   have blocked it on the 25th when they had these
     24   which has a lot of very suspicious loose ends.         24   concerns.
     25   And so the number of questions I have to resolve       25           Didn't you say that?
                                                      Page 275                                                    Page 277
      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   goes up as we go through the 25th, not down. I          2        A On the 25th on the 25th, we
      3   have more diligence I have to do now than I had         3   learned about the California wire transaction.
      4   to do on the morning of the 25th. You know, I           4   On the 26th, as I understand the record, we
      5   still have an extremely unusual I now on                5   started then hearing talk about billions of
      6   the morning of the 26th, I now have the                 6   dollars of wires. So that's not the same thing
      7   transaction. So the work has to shift from the          7   as $75 million in wires.
      8   hypothetical to the practical of what do we do          8        Q. You say "we" there.
      9   now, but I find it more complex.                        9          You're aligning yourself as "we," you
     10         Q. Given the questions that existed              10   and Chain Bridge, correct?
     11   prior to the wire transfer, would you have             11        A Well, I'm you know, culturally I'm
     12   advised Chain Bridge Bank if you were advising         12   a banker, so I'm in the banker's shoes. I don't
     13   them to block the transfer from occurring in the       13   mean I'm not speaking for Chain Bridge,
     14   first place?                                           14   certainly.
     15         A I you know, my inclination would               15          As I look at the facts in this
     16   be to say, no, because I would I would want to         16   transaction, you know, I'm naturally kind of
     17   work with the customer to see if there's a way to      17   looking at the facts from the point of view of a
     18   make this thing function, is there a way to make       18   banker. So I studied the Chain Bridge record
     19   this successful.                                       19   most closely. So that's the "we." I don't mean
     20         Q. And how did Chain Bridge Bank work            20   to imply
     21   with the customer to make it successful?               21        Q. It goes to point of view of the
     22         A They said, tell us what's happening,           22   banking customer?
     23   you know, give us your best estimate. And that         23          MR. MADDEN: Objection to form.
     24   was wrong. Then we find out about the actual           24        Q. Is that the explanation?
     25   transaction. Then we hear comments and I forget        25        A No, what I said is true. I studied

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      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   a balance sheet. As you know, the reserve               2   caused an enforcement action. I think if they
      3   requirements that apply to banks were basically         3   never obtained it, they would be criticized,
      4   suspended the beginning of March. I just I              4   certainly, for flying blind on a transaction.
      5   don't see the urgency and I don't see any               5        Q. It's normal in the process of
      6   evidence that this motivated the actions taken by       6   diligence in a transaction like this for a
      7   Chain Bridge at all.                                    7   customer to be in regular or a bank, sorry, to
      8         Q. You don't consider all of the e mails          8   be in regular contact with its customer, isn't
      9   that talk about the urgency of not having this on       9   that correct?
     10   their balance sheet as any evidence that that was      10        A. I really don't know if there's a
     11   a motivation here for Chain Bridge Bank, you           11   practice or a rule about that. I think typically
     12   don't see that?                                        12     well, this is not typical in the slightest.
     13         A. What I see when I read that is this           13   But, you know, in my experience, we want to keep
     14   is kind of the proper implementation planning I        14   our customers close. This is extraordinary. You
     15   would want my team to engage in, if they were          15   know, you've got extenuating circumstances given
     16   confronting a transaction like this. They don't        16   that the birth of Blue Flame was just on the
     17   know how real it is. So they want to be ready          17   heels of the arrival of this wire. So I've never
     18   just in case. And so I saw, you know, kind of          18   seen this combination of facts before.
     19   reasonable, serious discussions and actions being      19        Q. Did Chain Bridge Bank act like it
     20   taken, you know, winding up the ICS, getting the       20   wanted to keep this customer Blue Flame Medical
     21   ICS application to Gula. They were taking the          21   close?
     22   steps you would want them to take, but they're         22        A. I think so, yes. I mean, the
     23   still operating with a deficit of information.         23   difficulty is keeping somebody close during the
     24           So we don't know we just don't                 24   second or third week of the COVID pandemic is
     25   know the scale of this shock to the balance            25   sort of an kind of oxymoron. I don't want
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      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                1      CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   sheet. We just don't know how long the cash is          2   anybody in my office, right. I don't know if you
      3   going to be there. So I just don't share                3   went to any bank branches
      4   Mr. O'Malley's certainty about the scale of the         4        Q. I did.
      5   problem or the constraint this would place on           5        A. on the 25th or 26th of March
      6   Chain Bridge's behavior.                                6   you did?
      7        Q. You see any evidence that they                  7        Q. Yes.
      8   contacted Mr. Gula to find out about this               8        A. Well, I did not. I am not that
      9   information about how long the money would remain       9   brave. The protocols of the rules just weren't
     10   in the account?                                        10   in place yet. We didn't have the habits. But my
     11        A. I don't remember if he shared that             11   recollection is my clients didn't want to see me.
     12   information. So I I'm just foggy on what, if           12   My clients didn't want to see their clients. We
     13   anything, Gula provided. But, as I said a few          13   were everybody was standing down and most of
     14   minutes ago, the most important information the        14   us were staying home.
     15   bank needed was the contracts. They needed to be       15        Q. Alright. I take it you're not giving
     16   able to look at the vendor contracts and assess        16   your expert opinion on that issue?
     17   the reality of Blue Flame Medical purchasing a         17        A. No, I'm giving you my personal
     18   hundred million N95s. That's an essential hurdle       18   experience.
     19   that has to be cleared.                                19        Q. Okay. Is it normal for a bank
     20        Q. Are you saying if that hurdle was not          20   conducting a BSA diligence investigation to cut
     21   cleared, they would face sanction from the OCC if      21   off contact with its own customer and at the same
     22   they allowed this transaction to go into Blue          22   time contact directly the client of its
     23   Flame Medical's account?                               23   counterparty bank; is that normal in a BSA
     24        A. You know, there's so many parts of             24   investigation?
     25   this, Mr. White. I don't know if that would have       25        A. I

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      2           MR. MADDEN: Objection to form to                2   with this many kind of suspicious
      3   form.                                                   3   characteristics, that's not sufficient. I want
      4        A. I reject the characterization as                4   to look at more information. So I'm going to,
      5   cutting off. This is a pause. It's a few hour           5   basically, square that information against other
      6   pause in the conversation. You know, they met           6   information.
      7   with Gula off and on throughout the bank met            7           So the other information banks
      8   with Gula on and off throughout the 25th. They          8   routinely gather is, you know, web search,
      9   resumed meeting early in the afternoon of the           9   Internet information, Google hits, news about the
     10   26th. I just don't see that as a cutoff.               10   originator, you know, trying to build a profile
     11           Evinger and Brough hunkered down and           11   for what does this originator do. So is what I
     12   wanted to control the messaging with Gula.             12   can learn about it match what my customer has
     13   Perfectly reasonable and it lasted a few hours.        13   told me they do.
     14   So, I guess, I just reject the characterization        14           And then if doubts persist, again, in
     15   that this was a cutting off. I don't know if           15   particular, against the backdrop of an extremely
     16        Q. Okay. Is that sort is that sort                16   large transaction, I am free to call the
     17   of pause normal?                                       17   originator.
     18        A. Sure. It's normal in particular with           18        Q. So the ordinary course would be to
     19   the new client. I have to go through an exercise       19   gather information from your own client, that's a
     20   with a new customer of trying to assess, you           20   normal thing to do, correct?
     21   know, can I work with them or do I understand how      21        A. Right, as was done here.
     22   they work and can we find a way to work together.      22        Q. And to gather information from public
     23           And so the 25th was dedicated for              23   sources, Google searches and so on about both
     24   pulling in information from Mr. Gula. The 26th         24   parties to the transaction, correct?
     25   was trying to make sense the morning of the            25        A. Correct. And, you know, J.P.
                                                      Page 291                                                    Page 293
      1      CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                 1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   26th I'm trying to make sense of the information        2   Morgan's version of this was to go to the early
      3   that he provided.                                       3   warning system software, which is a risk scoring
      4          The afternoon of the 26th the bank               4   methodology. But it's effectively doing the same
      5   came to the determination it appears that the           5   thing. It's searching for public source
      6   risk of this relationship was not consistent with       6   information and trying to risk rate or identify
      7   the bank's appetite, which is a decision that           7   doubts that may exist from certain customers.
      8   really only the bank can make and I support that        8            So when you see I forget if it's
      9   decision. So the termination of the account             9   Coffey or Korpal who says, you know, one of the
     10   relationships related to Red Line and Blue Flame       10   difficult aspects of this transaction was the
     11   on the afternoon of the 26th, I think, was             11   lack of sort oflnternet presence at all. So you
     12   perfectly reasonable given what they had just          12   can't do that public source search for a brand
     13   experienced in the 24 hours prior.                     13   new company that has no track record.
     14        Q. Is it also normal for a bank to                14            But these are the the normal step
     15   contact the counterparty to the wire transfer          15   is to first go to my customer and then go to
     16   directly as opposed to their banking                   16   public source or proprietary software systems and
     17   counterparty; is that normal?                          17   then to the extent that doubts persist, which,
     18          MR. MADDEN: Objection, objection to             18   you know, was going to happen when have extremely
     19   form.                                                  19   large wire transaction like this, if you feel
     20        A. Yes, sir. I talk to originators of             20   it's appropriate, call up the originator.
     21   wires routinely to try to understand what the          21         Q. The ordinary next step would be to go
     22   transaction represented. So, if I'm in the             22   to the originator's bank, wouldn't it?
     23   receiving bank, I need to understand. My one           23         A. Sometimes but not always. I've done
     24   early source of information is my client, right,       24   both. I've gone I've done physical site
     25   the beneficiary. That for a large transaction          25   visits to the originator. I've, certainly,

                                                                                                 74 (Pages 290 - 293)
                                               Veritext Legal Solutions
    212-267-6868                                                                                         516-608-2400
Case 1:20-cv-00658-LMB-IDD                   Document 142-4 Filed 05/20/21                          Page 8 of 8 PageID#
                                                    3422
                                                  CONFIDENTIAL
                                                            Page 294                                                         Page 296
      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   contacted the counterparty, the other bank to try             2   can be directly helpful to our due diligence
      3   to understand what they understand. So it                     3   obligations and vice versa.
      4   depends on it depends on protocols and time                   4        Q. Are you saying that the other folks
      5   and the availability of people.                               5   we've talked to in this area you said it's
      6         Q. Have you contacted an originator                     6   very unusual to contact the originating bank's
      7   directly without letting the corresponding bank               7   customer directly as a beneficiary bank.
      8   know?                                                         8           Are you saying they're wrong?
      9         A. Certainly.                                           9        A. Yes, to the extent that I understand
     10         Q. How often does that happen?                         10   what they're saying, I think, they're incorrect.
     11         A. So I am now the Chief Compliance                    11        Q. Okay. Are you aware that California
     12   Officer for a bank in New York that does regular             12   ultimately after this transaction was cancelled
     13   wire transfers with a bank in California. And                13   wired over a half million dollars half a
     14   I'd say once month to month I direct bank                    14   billion dollars to a Chinese company that had
     15   employees in New York to call originators in                 15   never made masks before and is now in receipt of
     16   California to understand what a transaction                  16   those masks? Are you aware of that?
     17   represents.                                                  17        A. I did not know that, no.
     18           And the reason for that is we have a                 18        Q. Now, are you aware of that, are you
     19   couple of customers who are involved in one's                19   saying that that's a transaction that should not
     20   in import/export and one is in real estate                   20   have been allowed to occur?
     21   development. And both of these customers are                 21        A. I don't know. I don't know the facts
     22   fall into this trap of not being transparent. So             22   on that transaction and how it unfolded. I know
     23   when we ask the customer, our customer, what is              23   the facts in this transaction.
     24   this inbound wire that you're receiving from this            24           Can I put in a request for a very
     25   company out in the West Coast, the answer we get             25   short? Can we do two or three minutes or
                                                            Page 295                                                         Page 297
      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I                      1       CONFIDENTIAL CHARLES H. GRICE VOL. I
      2   is vague, like, it's from another trading company             2   five minutes or whatever
      3   or in one case we were told, this represents                  3         Q. You can do that?
      4   money from a church.                                          4         A. you will allow?
      5           And so we called the church and we                    5           MR. WHITE: Let's go off the record.
      6   learned that it took a few calls. We learned                  6         A. Okay, thank you.
      7   that the church, in fact, was a real estate                   7           THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off
      8   developer. So the customer had lied to us about               8   the record at 3:22. This marks the end of Media
      9   the nature of the relationship and the nature of              9   Unit No. 6.
     10   their counterparty. So this happens routinely.               10           (Recess taken 3:22 to 3:30 p.m.
     11   Customers sometimes don't tell you the truth.                11   Central.)
     12   And that's why you have to use, you know,                    12           THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the
     13   alternative methods to try to obtain information.            13   record at 3:30. This marks the beginning of
     14        Q. Did you let the bank in California                   14   Media Unit No. 7.
     15   know that you were going to be contacting the                15         Q. Mr. Grice, for a bank the size of
     16   customer directly before you did so?                         16   Chain Bridge in March of 2020, can a deposit the
     17        A. We did after we had this example that                17   size of the one that was sent here be a concern
     18   I just told you about where our customer said it             18   with regard to the bank's capital reserves?
     19   was a church and when we called their customer we            19         A. I don't opine on that. I don't offer
     20   learned it wasn't a church but it was a real                 20   an opinion on it.
     21   estate developer. We shared that information.                21         Q. Do you know? You said you were a
     22   Because, again, we've got a relationship with the            22   bank this size.
     23   bank, right. The beneficiary and the originating             23         A. Sure. But I don't do, you know,
     24   bank have a relationship and that relationship is            24   balance sheet analysis. That's not my expertise.
     25   important because sometimes their due diligence              25   It's not that's not what I do.

                                                                                                          75 (Pages 294 - 297)
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