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Home Court filings U.S. v. Bernard Okojie Jury Trial Transcript — Day 2 (March 29, 2023) — United States v. Bernard Okojie

Court filing

Jury Trial Transcript — Day 2 (March 29, 2023) — United States v. Bernard Okojie

Summary

A jury trial transcript for the second day of trial, March 29, 2023, in United States v. Bernard Okojie, Case No. 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC, before the Honorable Lisa Godbey Wood in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Georgia, entered as Document 109 and filed April 30, 2023. The 172-page transcript opens with an index of government witnesses and a list of government exhibits, among them documents on account information and specific transactions, a petition, a photocopy of a notebook and a stipulation. In the testimony shown, the government questions a witness about his own PPP and EIDL loan applications and about applications the defendant prepared for others and the fees charged. The closing pages record the admonition to the jury, a recess at 3:44 p.m. and a charge conference set for the next morning. The court reporter certifies the transcript on April 24, 2023.

Summary drafted by a model from the document's text below and checked by script against that text before publication. It is a navigation aid, not a reading of what the document proves. Where AI is used

No. 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC · Doc. 109 · Docket on CourtListener

Full text

Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

Document 109

Filed 04/30/23

Page 1 of 172

136
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA
SAVANNAH DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

)
)
)
CASE NO.
) 4:22-CR-00084-LGW-BWC-1
)
)
)

v.
BERNARD OKOJIE,
Defendant.

JURY TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GODBEY WOOD
March 29, 2023; 9:02 a.m.
Brunswick, Georgia
APPEARANCES:
For the Government:

MATTHEW A. JOSEPHSON, Esq.
JENNIFER STANLEY, Esq.
U. S. Department of Justice
United States Attorney's Office
P. O. Box 8970
Savannah, Georgia 31401
(912) 652-4422
matthew.josephson@usdoj.gov
jennifer.stanley@usdoj.gov

For the Defendant:

JOHN J. OSSICK, JR., Esq.
John J. Ossick, Jr., PC
P. O. Box 1087
Kingsland, Georgia 31548-9190
912.729.5864
ossick@tds.net

Reported by:

Debbie Gilbert, RPR, CCR
Official Court Reporter
801 Gloucester Street
Post Office Box 1894
Brunswick, GA 31521-1894
(912) 262-2608 or (912) 266-6006
debra_gilbert@gas.uscourts.gov
- - -


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Page 2 of 172

137
I N D E X
PAGE
GOVERNMENT WITNESSES
ANTHONY JUDSON
Direct Examination By Mr. Josephson

140

GINELL ADAMS
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ossick

151
168

WANDA ANDERSON
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ossick

170
186

CHARLES BEY
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ossick

188
200

KATINA BANKS
Direct Examination By Mr. Josephson
Examination By Mr. Ossick
Redirect Examination By Mr. Josephson

202
217
219

ANGELA LOVELADY
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley

220

PRINCEWILL MONEME
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ossick
Redirect Examination By Ms. Stanley

233
242
244

RITA ADDO-MINTA
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley

245

MARIA PAGAN
Direct Examination By Mr. Josephson

257

DEDRA WILLIAMS
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley

258

KIMBERLY JOHNSON
Direct Examination By Mr. Josephson
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ossick

262
271


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138
RONNIE MATHESON
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley
Cross-Examination By Mr. Ossick
Redirect Examination By Ms. Stanley

274
279
280

KASSANDRA HALEY-FIELDS
Direct Examination By Ms. Stanley

281

OFFICER BRIAN CODER
Direct Examination By Mr. Josephson

287

GOVERNMENT RESTS

293

DEFENSE RESTS

305


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139
E X H I B I T S
GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBITS

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

DESCRIPTION

I.D.'d

ADMITTED

No. 17A

Document Entitled "Account
Information"

262

265

No. 17B

Document Entitled "Specific
Transactions for
INDPYMNT:SBA"

263

265

No. 17C

Document Entitled "Specific
Transactions for
Proceeds:SBA"

264

265

No. 17D

Document Entitled "SBA and
Related Activity"

264

265

No. 18

Petition

283

284

No. 19

Photocopy of Notebook

290

291

No. 20

Stipulation

255

255


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140
1

P R O C E E D I N G S

2

(Call to order at 9:02 a.m.)

3

THE COURT:

Good morning, let's bring in the jury.

4

(The jury enters the courtroom.)

5

THE COURT:

Good morning and welcome back, members of

6

the jury.

7

way through the Government's witnesses.

8

Mr. Josephson, call your next.

9

MR. JOSEPHSON:

10

When we broke yesterday evening, we were making our

Yes, Your Honor, the Government calls

Anthony Judson.

11

ANTHONY JUDSON,

12

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

13

follows:

14
15

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

And if you

will please state your full name and spell your last name.

16

THE WITNESS:

17

THE CLERK:

18

THE WITNESS:

19

THE CLERK:

20

THE WITNESS:

21

Is it this?

Yes.
Anthony Lamont Judson.

If you will spell your last name.
J-u-d-s-o-n.
DIRECT EXAMINATION

22

BY MR. JOSEPHSON:

23

Q.

24

Have we spoken on the phone before today?

25

A.

Good morning, Mr. Judson.

Yes, sir.

My name is Matt Josephson.


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141
1

Q.

Have you met with law enforcement a couple of times about

2

this case?

3

A.

Somewhat, well, other than the phone call.

4

Q.

Spoken with law enforcement on the phone about it?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

What do you do for a living?

7

A.

I'm an independent truck driver, owner-operator.

8

Q.

Do you know the defendant in this case, Bernard Okojie?

9

A.

Yes, sir.

10

Q.

What was the name that you generally knew him by?

11

A.

He just went by Ben.

12

Q.

And how did you meet Ben or Mr. Okojie?

13

A.

Well, it was another driver up in Michigan.

14

talking about as far as credit goes trying to get some credit

15

better and all that good stuff, and I was introduced to him,

16

introduced by phone number to him for just credit enhancement or

17

credit repair somewhat.

18

Q.

19

to repair your credit?

20

A.

21

to try to get a better score, better Beacon score.

22

Q.

23

help you with that?

24

A.

Yes, sir.

25

Q.

And you heard it from somebody at a truck stop?

Tell the jury.

Let me make sure I understood that.

We were just

So you were looking

Not really repair but I guess like trade lines or whatnot

And you heard that the defendant was someone who could


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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

And that truck stop was where?

3

A.

It was a TA, TA up in Michigan.

4

Q.

TA in Michigan?

5

A.

Yes, sir.

6

Q.

What did you do hear about the defendant's professional

7

background?

8

MR. OSSICK:

9

MR. JOSEPHSON:

10

Objection, hearsay.
Not submitted for the truth, just how he

knew him, background of how the witness is relevant.

11

THE COURT:

Overruled.

Proceed.

12

THE WITNESS:

13

professionally, to be honest.

14

introduced to, like I say, help my credit score, but as far as

15

what he did for a living, I didn't have an idea what he did for

16

a living.

17

Q.

18

CPA of some kind?

19

A.

To my knowledge, no, not to my knowledge.

20

Q.

Does he have a financial advisory business of some kind?

21

A.

I don't know about business but he had something about

22

enhancement of credit.

23

Q.

24

people with finances?

25

A.

I didn't understand what he did

(By Mr. Josephson)

I just knew that it was

To your knowledge, is the defendant a

Does he have some kind of professional license to help

Not to my knowledge, I can't say yes or no.


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1

Q.

Any professional certifications, to your knowledge?

2

A.

No, sir.

3

Q.

Just if I understand your testimony, somebody who

4

generally helps people repair credit but you weren't aware of

5

any specific training or licenses that the defendant had?

6

A.

No, sir.

7

Q.

Did you submit your own PPP and EIDL applications?

8

A.

I did.

9

Q.

And did you get loan money?

10

A.

Yes, sir.

11

Q.

How much money did you get?

12

A.

I think a total I think 17, seven, I think it was 17 and

13

17, and then for economic disaster, I think they gave me like

14

the advance that was, like I said, I guess it, I think that came

15

to like 9999.00, I believe.

16

Q.

17

you mean 17,000.00?

18

A.

Yes, I'm sorry, 17,000.00.

19

Q.

17,000.00, was that a PPP loan?

20

A.

I believe so, yes, sir.

21

Q.

Did you get a $150,000.00 loan?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

You did not?

24

A.

No, sir.

25

Q.

Did you get an EIDL loan as well?

I did initially, yes.

Let me break that down.

So how much, when you say 17, do


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1

A.

Is that economic -- yeah, that was for the nine -- I think

2

they advanced the $9,999.00.

3

Q.

An EIDL advance, is that what you --

4

A.

Yes, sir.

5

Q.

And these were applications that you submitted yourself?

6

A.

Yes, sir.

7

Q.

Were those loan applications that you submitted accurate?

8

A.

Yes, sir.

9

Q.

Do you actually own your own trucking business?

10

A.

Oh, yeah.

11

incorporated in the state of Georgia.

12

Q.

Work a lot?

13

A.

A whole lot.

14

Q.

On the road a lot?

15

A.

A whole lot.

16

Q.

After you got those loans, did the defendant file loans on

17

your behalf or attempt to do so?

18

A.

19

whatever happened, the system really didn't like it so it booted

20

them out.

21

Q.

So they were rejected?

22

A.

Yes, sir.

23

Q.

Was this after you had already gotten loan money?

24

A.

Yes, sir.

25

Q.

Did you provide your personal information to the defendant

Since November the 9th, 2011 I've been

Yes, sir, but for some reason, I don't think the system,


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1

so he could submit loan applications on your behalf?

2

A.

3

number and address, I believe.

4

Q.

5

goods sold information and employee information to the

6

defendant?

7

A.

Not to my knowledge -- no, not to my knowledge.

8

Q.

Do you remember?

9

A.

No, sir -- I mean, I don't believe I did.

10

Q.

You don't think you did, okay.

11

I think that was probably my name and social or my EIN

Did you provide the gross revenue information, cost of

Did you ever provide the defendant access to your e-mail

12

account?

13

A.

Not my direct e-mail, no, sir.

14

Q.

Did he give you a log-in and password so you could access

15

the SBA database?

16

A.

17

I can't remember if I had a log-in or not but I do remember

18

calling them trying to see what was going on, but they couldn't

19

really verify or tell me why it was rejected, though.

20

Q.

21

loan money when he filed the application?

22

A.

23

happened was I had qualified for that amount, but that amount

24

was, I guess, ate up so fast by the business I asked him if

25

there was any other way the business would qualify for the extra

I can't remember.

I can't recall it.

I don't remember.

Did the defendant know you had already received pandemic

I believe so, because I was trying -- I think what


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1

funding, but it didn't.

It didn't qualify for extra funding.

2

Q.

3

that you had applied and he was trying to get you more money?

4

A.

Yeah.

5

Q.

Are you currently married to Ms. Ginell Adams?

6

A.

I'm going through a divorce, but the decree hasn't been

7

signed yet, so I guess under law I'm still married to her.

8

Q.

Did you introduce Ms. Adams to the defendant?

9

A.

Yes, I did.

10

Q.

Why did you do that?

11

A.

I know she had a hair care -- you know, she did

12

cosmetology, hair business and whatnot, and I told her that, you

13

know, she probably be able to get money through her business or

14

EIDL or whatever she had going with her business.

15

Q.

Did the defendant assist Ms. Adams with an EIDL loan?

16

A.

As far as the EI -- I'm not sure.

17

one --

18

Q.

A SBA loan?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

Did you ever speak on the phone with the defendant and

21

your wife about a SBA loan?

22

A.

23

number, and so they discussed whatever they had going on between

24

each other.

25

Q.

If I understand your testimony, he was generally aware

No.

Yes, sir.

But I know the other

They -- I guess I gave her -- they had each other's

Are you aware of a phone call between the two of them


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1

about a SBA loan?

2

A.

3

at a time, so I couldn't tell you what day or what time that

4

they talked or not.

5

Q.

6

Adams and the defendant?

7

A.

As far as phone number?

8

Q.

Yes.

9

A.

Yes, sir, I provided her with his phone number.

10

Q.

Did you facilitate the exchange of any loan information?

11

A.

No, sir.

12

Q.

Did your wife pay the defendant to submit her SBA loan?

13

A.

To submit it, I'm not sure.

14

Q.

To prepare it, was there an exchange of money between Ms.

15

Adams and the defendant in connection with the loan?

16

A.

17

not sure what percentage or what amount was exchanged.

18

it was a percentage or whatever the approval was as a percent.

19

Q.

When you say a fee, you mean a fee paid to the defendant?

20

A.

Yes, sir.

21

Q.

Was that a fee that he charged?

22

A.

Yes, sir.

23

Q.

And your understanding is that it was based on a

24

percentage of the loan?

25

A.

Not so much.

Like I said, I was on the road 10 to 14 days

Did you facilitate the exchange of information between Ms.

I don't think so.

I think after the approval, there was like a fee, but I'm

Yes, sir.

I think


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1

Q.

Were you there when the money was exchanged between Ms.

2

Adams and the defendant?

3

A.

Yes, I was there.

4

Q.

Where was that?

5

A.

We were in the parking lot of Navy Federal in -- I think

6

it's McDonough, Stockbridge, one of the two.

7

Q.

Is that Navy Federal Credit Union?

8

A.

Yes, sir.

9

Q.

In McDonough?

10

A.

McDonough, yeah.

11

Q.

You were there?

12

A.

Yes, sir.

13

Q.

What was the nature of the payment, cash, check, crypto

14

currency?

15

A.

16

it was cash.

17

Q.

It was cash?

18

A.

I think -- yeah, I think she had to go inside and get the

19

money out of the bank to exchange as far as what fee.

20

Q.

21

involved?

22

A.

Not to my knowledge.

23

Q.

Ms. Roper, could you display Government Exhibit 12D.

24

we zoom in on the -- could we move to the second page, I

25

believe.

What was the nature?

I think it was -- I think it was cash, I believe.

I think

Was there ever a check or a cashier's check that was

Zoom in on that check there from Navy Federal.

Can


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1

Do you recognize -- let me start by asking you:

Who is

2

the remitter there?

3

A.

That's my wife.

4

Q.

And what's the name of the company listed, the entity that

5

received the check, above the remitter?

6

A.

It's Regions Bank.

7

Q.

That's the bank but it says "Pay to the Order of" --

8

A.

"Pay to the order of Kojie9, LLC.

9

Q.

Do you know what Kojie9, LLC is?

10

A.

No, sir.

11

Q.

Do you recognize this check?

12

A.

It may have been, like I said, the fee probably that I'm

13

thinking.

14

Q.

Okay.

15

A.

Yes, sir.

16

Q.

Does that ring a bell to you?

17

that your wife paid?

18

A.

19

my wife.

20

Q.

21

while the exchange happened; correct?

22

A.

23

as the check go, I'm not sure.

24

check but -- on that amount, I'm not sure.

25

Q.

The amount is 17,550.00?

Do you recall the amount

Not the exact amount, but I mean, yeah, that's -- that's
That's my wife's name on that check.

Just so I'm clear, you remember being in the parking lot

Yeah, but -- I was in the car but I don't know -- as far
I'm not sure if it was cash or a

Do you know Wanda Anderson and Charles Bey?


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1

A.

Yes, sir.

That's my mother-in-law and that is her

2

boyfriend.

3

Q.

Your mother-in-law, is that Ms. Ginell Adams' mother?

4

A.

Mother, yes, sir.

5

Q.

And Mr. Charles Bey is her boyfriend?

6

A.

Yes, sir.

7

Q.

Do you know Ms. Katina Banks?

8

A.

That is one of my ex-wife's clients/friends.

9

Q.

And what kind of client was she?

10

A.

She did her hair.

11

for her.

12

Q.

13

stylist?

14

A.

15

beautician or cosmetologist.

16

Q.

17

gross over $200,000.00 a year?

18

A.

19

taxes, but I took care of truck, house, cars.

20

was constantly on the road working to take care of everything.

21

I was the sole, really the head of household and pretty much was

22

never home because I was always working, but as far as that

23

$230,000.00, that's not to my knowledge.

24

Q.

25

business?

She was a client where she did her hair

Did Ms. Adams cut hair for a living?

Was she a beauty

As far as -- yeah, as far as I knew, yes, sir, she was a

To your knowledge, did your wife's business activities

I -- I never seen it, you know, because we filed separate
Like that's why I

Did you ever see employees associated with your wife's


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1

A.

No, sir.

2

MR. JOSEPHSON:

No further questions, Your Honor.

3

THE COURT:

Cross-examination?

4

MR. OSSICK:

No questions.

5

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

6

MR. JOSEPHSON:

7

THE COURT:

8

THE WITNESS:

9

THE COURT:

10

MS. STANLEY:

No, Your Honor.

Sir, you may step down and you're excused.
So I'm clear to leave?

Yes, sir, thank you.

11

The Government calls Ginell Adams.
GINELL ADAMS,

12

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

13

follows:

14
15

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated, and if you

will please state your full name and spell your last name.

16

THE WITNESS:

17

It's Ginell Adams, last name A-d-a-m-s.
DIRECT EXAMINATION

18

BY MS. STANLEY:

19

Q.

Good morning, Ms. Adams.

20

A.

Good morning.

21

Q.

Where do you live generally?

22

A.

In the Locust Grove area.

23

Q.

Do you know the defendant, Bernard Okojie?

24

A.

I don't know him personally.

25

Q.

Have you ever spoken with him before?


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1

A.

Over the telephone.

2

Q.

Did you ever meet him in person?

3

A.

Once, but I didn't get out of the car to meet him.

4

Q.

Would you recognize him?

5

A.

Possibility, it's possible.

6

Q.

Do you see him in this room this morning?

7

A.

He looks familiar over there.

8

Q.

At the table right behind me?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

How did you meet Mr. Okojie?

11

A.

Through my husband.

12

Q.

Who is your husband?

13

A.

Anthony Judson.

14

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie fill out an application for a SBA loan for

15

you in July of 2020?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Do you have a business?

18

A.

I do.

19

Q.

What kind of business?

20

A.

Well, I have a few.

21

a business where I fix up houses and I also do events and party

22

planning.

23

Q.

Do any of those businesses have names?

24

A.

Well, I was GSH.

25

the State, but the one I do hair is Hair by Giselle, and the one

I have a hair business.

I also have

That's the one that is registered with


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1

that -- the party planner, my sister-in-law and I, we have that

2

and it's called -- what is it? -- Contrary Events.

3

birthday parties.

4

Q.

Which of these businesses was the SBA loan for?

5

A.

I don't know which one he did.

6

application.

7

Q.

Do you work anywhere else?

8

A.

Currently, yes, I work.

9

Q.

Where do you work?

10

A.

I work at Witmark.

11

Q.

Do you have a health services business?

12

A.

No, I don't.

13

Q.

Ms. Adams, let's talk about July of 2020.

14

husband introduced you to Mr. Okojie?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Did he introduce you on a phone call where all three of

17

you were on the phone?

18

A.

Right.

19

Q.

Okay.

20

A.

So I -- of course, I didn't know him, but I knew his name

21

because I heard my husband mention him before because he had

22

worked with him before.

23

Q.

24

what did the three of you discuss?

25

A.

We do

I never saw my

You said your

It was through a phone call but he knew him prior.

During this phone call with Mr. Okojie and your husband,

He just asked for the information because my husband and I


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1

had already had a conversation prior about it.

2

were on the phone, it was a three-way -- well, not a three-way

3

call.

4

was beside him.

5

he and I never just held a conversation.

6

Q.

What information did he tell you he needed?

7

A.

My social, the correct spelling of my name and my address.

8

Q.

Did he ask you if you had a business?

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

Did you tell him you had a business?

11

A.

We never had a conversation.

12

Q.

Do you have any employees?

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie ask you if you had any employees?

15

A.

No, we never had a conversation.

16

Q.

How much did you make approximately in the 12 months

17

before January 31st of 2020?

18

A.

I don't know.

19

Q.

Can you give me an estimate?

20

A.

I don't know.

21

Q.

The year before COVID started, so about 2019?

22

A.

With my hair business or just any business?

23

Q.

Let's start with your hair business.

24

A.

2019, my hair business, I probably -- I guess maybe about

25

30.

It was on speakerphone.

So when he and I

He and Ben were on the phone.

I

He just told me what information he needed so

It was COVID.

I really don't know.


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1

Q.

What about for the event-planning business?

2

operational in 2019?

3

A.

We were doing --

4

THE COURT:

5

THE WITNESS:

6

THE COURT:

7

Q.

8

Was that

When you said 30, do you mean 30,000.00?
Yes, ma'am, 30,000.00.

All right, continue.

(By Ms. Stanley)

Thank you, Your Honor.

What about your event-planning business?

9

operation in 2019?

10

A.

11

we didn't have the LLC at the time.

12

we were doing.

13

Q.

Were you making money?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

About how much money in 2019?

16

A.

Maybe about 10 or 15.

Was that in

It was in operation, but it wasn't anything that we had --

17

THE COURT:

18

THE WITNESS:

It was just something that

Again thousand?

(By Ms. Stanley)

Thousand, I'm sorry.

19

Q.

And what about the house-flipping

20

business?

21

A.

22

that we lived in in Macon, but it was my mom's house, but we

23

were working on that.

24

Q.

Did you sell that house in 2019?

25

A.

It didn't get sold.

Were you doing that in 2019?

Started it because we were working on a project of a house

It got rented, rented out.


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1

Q.

2

2019 period?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie tell you that he was going to fill out the

5

loan application for you?

6

A.

7

Again, when we -- it was a conference -- well, not the

8

conference call, when he was on the phone and they were on the

9

speaker phone, it wasn't a conversation being held.

10

like they had their conversation.

11

He and I never had spoke on the phone outside of my husband.

12

was always on the speakerphone.

13

needed, and that was it.

14

Q.

15

business?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

Ms. Roper, will you please display Government's 2A Page

18

32.

And can you zoom in on that column, the second from the

19

right, please.

20

Okay.

Did Mr. Okojie ask you how much you made in the

Well, I knew that from the conversation with my husband.

It was just

I gave him the information.
It

I gave the information that was

Did he ask you to provide any documentation for a

And let me ask you:

Do you recognize that document, Ms.

21

Adams?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

Do you mind looking at this?

24

small but can you tell the jury whether that's your information,

25

your name, address, phone number, your personal information?

I know the font is very


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A.

Yes, it is.

2

Q.

Is that your e-mail address?

3

A.

Yes, it is.

4

Q.

Bank account -- I'm sorry, strike that.

5

Do you see that number, the $233,900.00 number?

6

A.

I do.

7

Q.

Did you provide that number to Mr. Okojie as the amount of

8

money that you made at any point in time?

9

A.

No, I didn't.

10

Q.

Do you see down there at the bottom where it says 7?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

Did you provide Mr. Okojie with seven employees as the

13

number of people you employed at any point in time?

14

A.

No.

15

Q.

Will you zoom back out, please, Ms. Roper.

16

in on the column on the left where it tells you what each line

17

is, far left.

18

Will you zoom

And Ms. Adams, do you see Line 14?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

Does that say that it's asking for gross revenues for the

21

12-month period prior to January 31st of 2020?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

And then Line 33, is that asking for the number of

24

employees as of January 31st, 2020?

25

A.

Yes.


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1

Q.

2

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.
Did Mr. Okojie tell you or your husband when the

3

application had been submitted?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

What happened next?

6

A.

He told us -- well, told us over the phone that I needed

7

to go on and sign, so it was on speakerphone so he walked me

8

through to do the electronic signature and that was it.

9

Q.

10

SBA?

11

A.

I believe so.

12

Q.

And did you click on a link in that e-mail?

13

A.

I'm -- I'm almost certain that I did.

14

remember but I'm sure I did.

15

Q.

16

the SBA's Web site?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

And did you log into that Web site?

19

A.

I don't recall logging in.

20

and it was a signature, an electronic signature page, and all I

21

remember is doing the e-signature.

22

Q.

23

to log in?

24

A.

I don't remember.

25

Q.

But you do remember digitally signing the document?

Okay, so how did that go?

Did you get an e-mail from the

I don't quite

Whether you clicked on a link or not, did you end up on

Okay.

I just remember going into it

Do you remember if Mr. Okojie gave you a password


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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Do you remember if it was one document or more than one

3

document?

4

A.

I recall one.

5

Q.

Did you read that document?

6

A.

It wasn't anything other than just a signature page, like

7

an e-signature and that's all I did and that was it.

8

the only time I went on the application, and it wasn't even an

9

application signature page.

10

Q.

11

loan money from the SBA?

12

A.

I did.

13

Q.

How much?

14

A.

It was 117,000.00.

15

Q.

Was that deposited into your Navy Federal Credit Union

16

account?

17

A.

Right.

18

Q.

Did you pay Mr. Okojie any of that money?

19

A.

Yes, I did.

20

Q.

How much?

21

A.

It was 17,000.00.

22

it was $17,000.00.

23

Q.

What was that payment for?

24

A.

The process of the application.

25

a percentage that he mentioned that he charged, and that was the

That was

After you digitally signed that document did you receive

I don't remember the dollar amount but

That was his fee.

It was


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percentage.

2

Q.

Did you negotiate that fee at all?

3

A.

No, I did not.

4

Q.

How did you pay him?

5

A.

Cashier's check, I went to my bank and got the cashier's

6

check made out.

7

Q.

Who was that check made out to?

8

A.

I don't remember the company, but it was a company that he

9

provided for me to get the cashier's check made out to, but it

10

was a weird name.

11

Q.

But he told you who to make the check out to?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Ms. Roper, will you pull up Government's Exhibit 12A,

14

please, and will you go to the second page and zoom into that

15

check.

16

that this loan money was a business loan?

17

A.

I did.

18

Q.

And did you know that it was a loan that you had to pay

19

back?

20

A.

I did.

21

Q.

When you went to the bank to get the cashier's check, was

22

your husband with you?

23

A.

24

I know he was with me when I made the payment.

25

Q.

I don't remember exactly what it was.

While they are pulling that up, Ms. Adams, did you know

I don't recall him being with me when I got the check but

When you gave the check to Mr. Okojie?


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1

A.

Right.

2

Q.

Where did you meet Mr. Okojie to give him the check?

3

A.

In the parking lot of Navy Federal.

4

Q.

Did you do that on the same day you got the check?

5

A.

I don't recall.

6

Q.

And did you hand the check physically to Mr. Okojie?

7

A.

No, my husband did.

8

Q.

Okay, did you get out of the car?

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

All right, Ms. Adams, if you will look at the screen, will

11

you let me know if you recognize this check?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And is that the check that you gave to Mr. Okojie?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Is it for $17,550.00?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Dated July 22nd, 2020?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Do you see who it's made payable to?

20

A.

Right.

21

Q.

Do you recognize that name?

22

A.

I recognize it from getting the check made.

23

only time I've seen that name.

24

Q.

Did you know what kind of business that was?

25

A.

No.

I can't remember.

That's the


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Q.

2

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.
After you paid Mr. Okojie his fee, what did you spend the

3

rest of the loan money on?

4

A.

5

my other business when I told you I was flipping.

6

my husband with his business because it was in the middle of

7

COVID.

8

during that time.

9

Q.

10

you buy for your businesses or business?

11

A.

12

tablecloths, centerpieces, flowers because I did weddings.

13

did birthday parties.

14

I bought dryers.

15

my area that I did hair in and things of that nature for my

16

business.

17

Q.

18

11A and go to Page 16, please.

19

top.

20

I spent it on my business.

I invested, I got a house with
I also helped

No one was making money and whatever else I needed

Other than purchasing the house, what kinds of things did

Well, my event-planning business, I bought decorations,
I

With my hair business, I bought product.

I bought stands.

I bought things to decorate

Ms. Roper, will you please pull up Government's Exhibit
Will you zoom in up there at the

Ms. Adams, these are the bank statements for your Navy

21

Federal Credit Union account.

Do these show that $117,000.00

22

SBA loan money coming into that account?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Is that $17,550.00 withdrawal the check that we've just

25

talked about?


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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

And is the date next to that check withdrawal July 21st,

3

2020?

4

A.

5

date, but, yes, that's the date that was on the check.

6

Q.

Do you see that on this statement on the left-hand column?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Can we go to Page 19, please, Ms. Roper.

9

That's what was on the check.

I don't remember exact

Ms. Adams, if you will look at this, do you see that

10

withdrawal in the amount of $28,000.00?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

On July 28th of 2020?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

What was that?

15

A.

A house that I purchased.

16

Q.

Where was that house?

17

A.

In Macon.

18

Q.

Do you still own it?

19

A.

I sold it.

20

Q.

How much did you sell it for?

21

A.

I think 62,000.00.

22

Q.

Are any of these other expenses on this page related to

23

your businesses?

24

A.

I'm just looking.

25

Q.

Sure, take your time.

I fixed it and I sold it.


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1

A.

2

It does show personal.

3

Q.

4

a hotel payment?

5

A.

No.

6

Q.

Do you know what that was for?

7

A.

America's Best, those are glasses.

8

Q.

Can you go to Page 22, Ms. Roper.

9

withdrawal on September 22nd, Ms. Adams, what was that for?

10

A.

September 22nd?

11

Q.

Yes, ma'am, the last one on that.

12

A.

I purchased a toy poodle.

13

Q.

A toy poodle?

14

A.

I did.

15

died.

16

toy poodle.

17

house because she was living with me because she couldn't go

18

upstairs.

I went by the place.

They had it.

She asked did I

19

want it.

We went in -- well, I went inside.

I couldn't make

20

all the payment on one, so we -- we had to split it up.

21

gave me cash so I had to put what I could on my card and then I

22

paid the rest.

23

Q.

24
25

They are just all withdrawals and dentist appointments.
Dr. -- Dentfirst, that's my dentist.

Is that withdrawal on August 6th, America's Best, is that

That last $2,000.00

My mom and I went half on it.

My dad had just

I always wanted -- I already had a dog, and I wanted a
She just had surgery, so on the way back from her

She had

Let me ask you about one more, Page 25, please, Ms. Roper.
Ms. Adams, the withdrawal for $2,000.00 on August 2nd,

Maxie Price Chevro, what was that for?


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1

A.

Car for my son.

2

Q.

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

3

Ms. Adams, did you also receive a PPP loan?

4

A.

I did.

5

Q.

Do you remember when that was?

6

A.

I don't.

7

Q.

Does April 2021 sound correct?

8

A.

I'm not sure.

9

Q.

Do you have any reason to believe that's inaccurate?

10

A.

No, I don't.

11

Q.

Do you remember how much that loan was for?

12

A.

I don't remember the dollar amount.

13

Q.

Does about $20,000.00 sound accurate?

14

A.

It sounds close.

15

Q.

Which business is that for?

16

A.

Should have been my hair business.

17

Q.

Did you fill out that application?

18

A.

No, I did not.

19

Q.

Did someone else do it for you?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Who was that?

22

A.

I just know Steve.

23

Q.

Is he your tax preparer?

24

A.

He has done tax work for myself and my family, yes.

25

Q.

Do you remember submitting your driver's license to get

That's all I know his name is Steve.


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that loan?

2

A.

Online, yes.

3

Q.

Do you remember taking a selfie to verify your

4

identification to get that loan?

5

A.

I believe, yes, online.

6

Q.

Did you make $97,000.00 in 2020?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

Did you know that's what the tax documents submitted with

9

that application said you made?

10

A.

No, I did not.

11

Q.

Did you pay Steve a fee?

12

A.

I did.

13

Q.

How much?

14

A.

I don't remember the dollar amount.

15

Q.

And what did you spend that loan money on?

16

A.

Still my business.

17

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you pull Government's Exhibit 12A back up

18

and go to Page 50 -- I'm sorry, not 12A.

19

please.

20

11, 11A go to Page 53,

Can you zoom on that, please.

Ms. Adams, do you see a $20,227.00 deposit on May 18th

21

entitled "PPP funding"?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Is this your Navy Federal Credit Union account?

24

A.

It is.

25

Q.

On May 20th, I guess let me ask you first:

Are any of


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1

those expenses immediately following, those withdrawals

2

immediately following that deposit, were those related to your

3

business?

4

A.

5

spend the money that doesn't relate to my business, but if

6

that's my account, you will see other things that I purchased,

7

made purchases with, so, yes.

8

Q.

9

PPP money, had to be used for your business?

10

A.

Yes, it's used toward my business, yes.

11

Q.

Is that payment, the 5/20 $50.00?

12

A.

Which payment?

13

Q.

The May 20th for $50.00, is that at a plastic surgeon's

14

office?

15

A.

That was a consultation fee.

16

Q.

At a plastic surgeon's?

17

A.

It was over the phone.

18

Q.

All right, you can take that down, Ms. Roper.

19

No, but I also had money, so you act like I'm -- I can't

Do you know this loan money, either the EIDL money or the

Who is Wanda Anderson?

20

A.

That's my mother.

21

Q.

Who is Charles Bey?

22

A.

That's my stepdad.

23

Q.

Do you know Katina Banks?

24

A.

Yes, I do, that's my friend.

25

Q.

Did you refer Mr. Okojie to her or her to Mr. Okojie?


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1

A.

Yes, I did.

2

Q.

And do you know Angela Lovelady?

3

A.

That's her aunt, Katina's aunt.

4

Q.

Have you ever spoken with her?

5

A.

Spoken with who?

6

Q.

Ms. Lovelady.

7

A.

I've spoken with her before when I went to do a baby

8

shower for them before because, as I say, I do parties.

9

Q.

Did you put her in touch with Mr. Okojie?

10

A.

No, I did not.

11

MS. STANLEY:

12

THE COURT:

Nothing further.

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick.

13

CROSS-EXAMINATION

14

BY MR. OSSICK:

15

Q.

Good morning.

16

A.

Good morning.

17

Q.

I represent Mr. Okojie.

18

A.

Okay, how are you?

19

Q.

A couple of questions, Ms. Adams.

20

some point you logged into a SBA Web site?

21

A.

I indicated that I signed an electronic document, yes.

22

Q.

And your recollection is the only page that was available

23

to see when you did that was the signature page?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Do you recall being interviewed over the telephone or

My name is John Ossick.

You indicated that at


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1

getting a call in February 14th of last year by Agent Dye?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And do you recall at some point asking him do you need a

4

lawyer?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

And he told you he couldn't tell you whether you do or

7

not?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

And you asked "Where is this going" and you cut off the

10

conversation and said "I've got to talk, see which of my lawyers

11

I need to use"?

12

A.

Correct.

13

MR. OSSICK:

Thank you.

14

THE WITNESS:

You're welcome.

15

THE COURT:

16

MS. STANLEY:

17

THE COURT:

18

MS. STANLEY:

19

THE COURT:

20
21

Any redirect?
No, Your Honor.

Any objection to excusing this witness?
No, Your Honor.

All right.

She may be excused.

You may be excused.

Call your

next witness.
MS. STANLEY:

22

The Government calls Wanda Anderson.
WANDA ANDERSON,

23

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

24

follows:

25

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

And if you


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1

will please state your full name and then spell your last name.

2

THE WITNESS:

3

Wanda Anderson.

A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

4

BY MS. STANLEY:

5

Q.

Good morning, Ms. Anderson.

6

A.

Good morning.

7

Q.

Where do you live generally?

8

A.

In Locust Grove, Georgia.

9

Q.

Where do you work?

10

A.

DaVita Dialysis.

11

Q.

What do you do there?

12

A.

I'm a dialysis nurse.

13

Q.

Do you have a business?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

What is it called?

16

A.

Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls.

17

Q.

What kind of business is it?

18

A.

Durable medical equipment business.

19

Q.

What do you do?

20

A.

We provide durable medical equipment such as diabetic

21

shoes, arthritic supplies like back braces, knee braces, things

22

like that.

23

Q.

Do you know Charlie Bey or Charles Bey?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Who is that?


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1

A.

My partner.

2

Q.

Do you live together?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Do you own and operate Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls with

5

him?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

Do you have any other employees in this business besides

8

you and Mr. Bey?

9

A.

Just me and Mr. Bey.

10

Q.

How much money would you estimate this business made in

11

2019?

12

A.

13

really estimate.

14

Q.

Would you say less than $40,000.00?

15

A.

I would say probably less than that.

16

Q.

What's the most it ever made in one year?

17

A.

I would just estimate probably about 30 or close to 40.

18

Q.

Did you and your husband first apply for an EIDL loan for

19

Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls on your own?

20

A.

Yes, I did.

21

Q.

Did you get any money for that loan?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

How did you find out about the EIDL loan program?

24

A.

Heard it from, you know, it was advertised.

25

TV, Internet, about helping small businesses.

I'm not sure, but it wasn't much.

I'm not sure.

I can't

I heard it on


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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172
1

Q.

Did you and your husband fill out that application

2

together?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

When was that?

5

A.

I'm not sure what date it was.

6

Q.

Does April of 2020 sound accurate?

7

A.

I'm not sure.

8

Q.

Was it earlier in the pandemic?

9

A.

It was during that time that the pandemic.

10

what date.

11

Q.

12

if you recognize the information on that document.

13

business name?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Is that your EIN?

16

A.

I'm not sure if that's the correct number, but yes.

17

have an EIN number.

18

head.

19

Q.

And "Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls, LLC"?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Is that your address?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Phone number?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

e-mail address?

I filled it out.

I'm not sure

Let me show you a document, Ms. Anderson, and let me ask
Is that your

I do

I don't know the number off the top of my


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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173
1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

What number does it show for gross revenue in the 12

3

months prior to January 31st, 2020?

4

A.

It's 38, 38,000.00.

5

Q.

And seven dollars?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And how much, right below, does it show for the cost of

8

goods sold during that same time period?

9

A.

Cost of goods, the same amount, 38,007.00.

10

Q.

Do you remember putting those numbers in the first EIDL

11

application that you filled out?

12

A.

13

this is what's on here.

14

Q.

15

essentially spend what you brought in?

16

A.

17

I put in what we made.

18

Q.

Does it say you had two employees?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

And that's accurate; right?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Do you have any other businesses besides Unique Pleasant &

23

Smooth Souls?

24

A.

I have a rental property business that I have.

25

Q.

How many properties do you own?

I mean, I filled out the application.

I don't know if

This is what I put in here.

Are those numbers accurate for that time period?

Did you

Yes, because we didn't make any money during that time, so


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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174
1

A.

One.

2

Q.

Do you know the defendant, Bernard Okojie?

3

A.

I don't know.

4

Q.

Do you know someone named Ben?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

Did he fill out a SBA loan application for you in July of

7

2020?

8

A.

I don't know what date it was, but, yes, he did.

9

Q.

Does that sound approximately right, July 2020?

10

A.

I'm not sure what date it was, ma'am.

11

Q.

Okay.

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

How many times?

14

A.

One.

15

Q.

Would you recognize him?

16

A.

I'm not sure if I --

17

Q.

Do you see anyone in this room today who looks like him?

18

A.

No, I'm not sure --

19

Q.

Okay.

20

A.

-- if I can recognize him again.

21

Q.

Did you initially speak to Ben on the telephone?

22

A.

Yes, we talked on the phone.

23

Q.

Did someone put you in touch with him?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Who was that?

I don't know that name.

He filled out one.

Did you ever meet him in person?


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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175
1

A.

My son-in-law.

2

Q.

Who was that?

3

A.

Tony Judson.

4

Q.

And did you call Ben or did Ben call you?

5

A.

I'm not sure.

6

Q.

Was it just you on the phone with him?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

And what did you two discuss?

9

A.

We discussed about applying for the loan.

10

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie ask you if you had a business?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

What did you tell him?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Did you tell him about Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Did he ask you how many employees you had?

17

A.

I can't recall if he asked me that.

18

Q.

Would you have told him -- what would you have told him if

19

he had asked?

20

A.

Two.

21

Q.

Did he ask you how much you made in the 12-month period

22

before January 31st, 2020?

23

A.

I can't recall if he asked me that.

24

Q.

Would you have told him you made $248,800.00 during that

25

period?

I believe that I called Ben.


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176
1

A.

No.

2

Q.

Did Ben tell you he was going to fill out the loan

3

application for you?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Did he ask you to provide any documentation of your

6

business?

7

A.

He -- he asked for some documentation.

8

Q.

Like what?

9

A.

I believe it was my social security number, address,

10

social security number, I believe.

11

Q.

But he didn't ask you to provide any kind of tax document?

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

Any kind of license with the State?

14

A.

No.

15

Q.

Just your personal information?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Did you provide that to him?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

On the phone?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Ms. Roper, will you pull up Government's 2B, Page 56.

22

you zoom into that middle section, Ms. Roper, the whole, all the

23

way across but just the middle row.

24
25

And I know this is very small, Ms. Anderson.
personal information on this document?

Can

Is this your


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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177
1

A.

That's my name.

2

Q.

Is that your social security number?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Is that your address?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

Is that your rental property?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Why did you provide him with your rental property address?

9

A.

I don't know if I gave him my rental property address.

10

Q.

How else would he have gotten that address?

11

A.

I don't know.

12

Q.

Do you see where it says $242,000.00, $242,800.00 gross

13

revenues?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

You didn't provide him with that number?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

And you did not have eight employees?

18

A.

No.

19

Q.

Do you see where it says eight, number of employees as of

20

January 31st, the last line visible on the screen?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

23

You see the Macon, Georgia address?

Did he tell you when the application was done and had been

24

submitted?

25

A.

I just assumed that it was done.

I can't recall if he


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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178
1

just told me that it was done.

I gave him the information or

2

whatever, so I can't say he called me and said it was done.

3

Q.

4

information?

5

A.

6

e-mail.

7

Q.

8

Administration?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

What did that e-mail say?

11

A.

That it was approved.

12

Q.

And did you click on a link in that e-mail address, I

13

mean, in that e-mail, excuse me?

14

A.

15

know that I did get an e-mail saying that it was approved so ...

16

Q.

17

Administration Web site to sign something?

18

A.

I'm not sure if I did that, no, ma'am.

19

Q.

Did you meet with Special Agent Dye and Special Agent

20

Lott, Mr. Josephson and myself prior to today?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

And did you speak with Agent Dye on the phone before that?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Do you remember telling Agent Dye, telling us that you did

25

sign something digitally?

All right, what happened next after you gave him this

He asked me to let him -- let him know when I got an

Did you get an e-mail from the Small Business

I'm not sure if I clicked on an e-mail, but I did let him

Do you remember logging into the Small Business


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179
1

A.

I don't remember -- I don't remember saying that I did

2

sign it.

3

Q.

Okay.

4

A.

I don't remember if he gave me a password.

5

I think it was a password created.

6

password.

7

Q.

8

deposited into your bank account?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

How much?

11

A.

It was 200 and something.

12

amount.

Do you remember if he gave you a password?
I know that --

I'm not sure if I got the

After the loan had been approved, did you get loan money

13

THE COURT:

14

THE WITNESS:

I'm not sure the correct

200 and something dollars?
Thousand.

15

Q.

(By Ms. Stanley)

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you pull Government's 12E, please.

18

200-something thousand dollars?

Is that your Cadence bank account there in the middle of

19

the page?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Do you see that deposit for $121,300.00?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Does that sound like the amount of money that you got from

24

the loan?

25

A.

Yes, sorry, my correction.


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180
1

Q.

2

account?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Did you pay Ben any of that money?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

How much?

7

A.

I'm not sure the correct amount, but I think it was 20-

8

something thousand.

9

Q.

How did you pay him?

10

A.

Cashier check.

11

Q.

Where?

12

A.

He gave me directions of making a cashier check out to

13

some trucking company.

14

Q.

You don't remember what that was called?

15

A.

No, I don't recall what the name of it is.

16

Q.

Can we go to Page 2, please, Ms. Roper, and zoom in on

17

that check.

18

Did you withdraw that full amount in cash from the bank

I'm not sure.

Is this the cashier's check you gave Ben?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

And it's in the amount of $18,210.00?

21

A.

Okay.

22

Q.

Is that what it says?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Does that sound like what you paid Ben for his fee?

25

A.

Yes, if that was on here, yes.


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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181
1

Q.

2

this check payable to a freight company or a trucking company?

3

A.

4

requested that he wanted done so this is what I did.

5

ask no questions, no.

6

Q.

7

payment," under the memo, "leasing payment"?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Did he tell you to put that on the cashier's check?

10

A.

I can't recall if he told me to put "leasing payment."

11

can't recall if he said that.

12

Q.

Why else would you have put it on the check?

13

A.

Like I said, ma'am, I can't recall if he told me to put

14

that on there.

15
16

Did it seem weird to you that he was asking you to make

No, it didn't seem weird to me.

This is what the man had
I didn't

Do you see there on the left where it says "leasing

THE COURT:

I

She's asking you if you know of another

reason why you would have done it.

17

THE WITNESS:

No, I don't know of any other reason I

18

would have done it unless it was told for me to do it.

19

Q.

20

payment?

21

A.

22

I'm not sure.

23

Q.

What was this check for?

24

A.

To pay him.

25

Q.

For what?

(By Ms. Stanley)

But you knew this wasn't a leasing

I don't know whether it was a leasing payment or not.

No,


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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182
1

A.

For doing the SBA loan for me.

2

Q.

Why did you think that someone else would be able to get

3

SBA loan money for you when you had been unsuccessful the first

4

time?

5

A.

6

business at that time, and we was not able to do any work

7

because of the COVID.

8

get no -- no return or whether or not my application was

9

approved or not.

10

Because I have a business as well as other people had

When I tried to do the SBA loan, I didn't

So I don't know whether I had did it wrong or right, so I

11

didn't get no comment from the SBA loan whether I got it,

12

whether it was approved or not.

13

Q.

Did you know this money was a business loan?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Did you know this money was to be used on business

16

expenses?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Did you know it was a loan that you had to pay back?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

After you paid Ben his fee, what did you spend the rest of

21

the $121,000.00 on?

22

A.

My business.

23

Q.

Like what?

24

A.

Business supplies, rent bills for the business.

25

Q.

Did you spend it on personal bills?


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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183
1

A.

No.

2

Q.

Did you spend it on gas money?

3

A.

I may have because that's business.

4

clients.

5

Q.

Do you recall if you spent any of it on car payments?

6

A.

Yes.

We have a business car.

7

Q.

Okay.

Have you been making payments on the loan?

8

A.

No, not yet.

9

Q.

Did you later try to apply for a third EIDL loan in the

10

name of Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls?

11

A.

12

I didn't apply for a third loan.

13

because I didn't get no information or confirmation that I

14

had -- that I was approved, so I didn't know whether I had

15

put -- that I had did it wrong or whatever so I tried again.

16

Q.

17

I know I applied for another loan.

We go out and see

You said a third loan.

I applied for a second one

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
This is the second application that you personally filled

18

out?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

And it was after you got the loan money through Ben?

21

A.

I don't recall it being after I had got the money.

22

Q.

Let me show you a document, Ms. Anderson.

23

if that's your personal information on that document?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Does this document look like the one that we just had up

Can you confirm


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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184
1

on the screen for the loan that Ben did for you?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And does it say at the top one of those first lines, that

4

this was submitted in January of 2021?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

Did you get any money from this attempt?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

Why are those numbers for gross revenue and cost of goods

9

sold different from the ones on the first EIDL application that

10

you filled out?

11

A.

The amount is lower.

12

Q.

What are those numbers?

13

A.

For the goods?

14

Q.

Yes, ma'am.

15

A.

$27,762.00, I believe.

16

Q.

So it's different from the 38,000.00 that you put on your

17

first loan application?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Did you also get a PPP loan?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

When was that?

22

A.

I don't recall the date, ma'am.

23

Q.

Does May or June of 2021 --

24

A.

I don't recall the date.

25

Q.

Do you have any reason to believe that's wrong, May or


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1

June of 2021?

2

A.

I don't recall the date.

3

Q.

How much money did you get from that loan?

4

A.

I believe it was 20,000.00.

5

Q.

Did you fill out and submit that application?

6

A.

No, I did not.

7

Q.

Who did?

8

A.

My tax preparer.

9

Q.

Who is that?

10

A.

Steve Santos.

11

Q.

Do you recall submitting your driver's license to get that

12

loan?

13

A.

I'm not sure, ma'am.

14

Q.

Do you recall taking a selfie to verify your identity to

15

get that loan?

16

A.

Yes, I do.

17

Q.

Do you know what kind of business that application said

18

you had?

19

A.

No.

20

Q.

Did you make $98,000.00 in 2020?

21

A.

I'm not sure what I made.

22

that's what you're asking me?

23

Q.

How much did you personally make?

24

A.

I'm not sure what I made, ma'am.

25

Q.

Was it $98,000.00?

Maybe you gave it to Steve?

On my -- on my personal job,


Case 4:22-cr-00084-LGW-BWC

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186
1

A.

I'm not sure.

2

Q.

Does that seem way high or way -- you don't remember?

3

A.

I don't remember because I worked a lot of hours.

4

know.

5

Q.

Did you work as a hair stylist at all in 2020?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Do you know that that's what the tax documents submitted

8

with that application said you made?

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

And that's what you did?

11

A.

No.

12

Q.

And did you pay Steve a fee?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Do you remember how much?

15

A.

I believe it was $2,000.00.

16

Q.

And did you know that that money was a loan you had to pay

17

back?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

What did you spend that loan money on?

20

A.

On my business as well.

21

Q.

Have you been making payments on that loan?

22

A.

I haven't made no payments.

23

MS. STANLEY:

24

THE COURT:

25

Nothing further.

Any cross-examination?
CROSS-EXAMINATION

I don't


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187
1

BY MR. OSSICK:

2

Q.

3

Ossick.

4

Good morning.

I represent Mr. Okojie.

Let me ask you:

My name is John

Do you know who John Lehman is?

5

A.

My attorney.

6

Q.

And did you have a meeting with the Agent Dye and your

7

attorney and I believe Charles Bey in December of 2021?

8

A.

I can't recall the date, but, yes, we did.

9

MR. OSSICK:

Thank you.

10

THE COURT:

Any redirect?

11

MS. STANLEY:

12

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

13

MR. OSSICK:

No.

14

MS. STANLEY:

No, ma'am.

15

THE COURT:

16

THE WITNESS:

17

THE COURT:

18

THE WITNESS:

19

THE COURT:

20

MS. STANLEY:

21

Your Honor, may I approach and take those documents off

22

the witness stand.

23

THE COURT:

24
25

No, Your Honor.

You're excused.
I'm excused to leave?

You are.
Thank you.

Go ahead and call your next witness.
The Government calls Charles Bey.

You may.


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188
1

CHARLES BEY,

2

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

3

follows:

4
5

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated and if you

will please state your full name and spell your last name.

6

THE WITNESS:

7

Yes, ma'am, Charles Bey.
DIRECT EXAMINATION

8

BY MS. STANLEY:

9

Q.

Good morning, Mr. Bey.

10

A.

Yes, ma'am.

11

Q.

What area of Georgia do you live in generally?

12

A.

Locust Grove.

13

Q.

Where do you work?

14

A.

I work at DaVita Dialysis, and I work for Southwest

15

Atlanta Nephrology and Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls and Penny

16

Properties.

17

Q.

What is Penny Properties?

18

A.

Where I rehab houses.

19

Q.

I want to talk to you about Unique Pleasant & Smooth

20

Souls.

21

Anderson?

22

A.

Yes, ma'am.

23

Q.

Are you the only two employees?

24

A.

Yes, ma'am.

25

Q.

How much money would you estimate that business made in

We call it fix and flip.

Do you operate that business with your partner, Wanda


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1

2019?

2

A.

'19, was that during the pandemic?

3

THE COURT:

That was the year before.

4

THE WITNESS:

Year before?

If I'm not mistaken, maybe

5

40, 45, somewhere around there.

6

Q.

7

made in one year?

8

A.

I'm sorry?

9

Q.

What is the most money that business has ever made in one

10

year?

11

A.

I think we did if I'm not mistaken no more than 60 so far.

12

Q.

And did you and your wife or did your wife first apply for

13

an EIDL loan for Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls on her own?

14

A.

Yes, ma'am.

15

Q.

Was that early in the pandemic?

16

A.

Yes, ma'am.

17

Q.

Does April of 2020 sound accurate as the date for when

18

that application was submitted?

19

A.

Yes, ma'am.

20

Q.

Were you a part of that process at all?

21

A.

Well, I thought she could do it herself at the time, so I

22

kind of -- no, actually, no.

23

Q.

Did you get any money from that loan application?

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

Do you know the defendant, Bernard Okojie?

(By Ms. Stanley)

What's the most that business has ever

It was during the pandemic, yes, ma'am.

But I knew it.

Yes.

I knew about it.


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1

A.

I don't know by that name.

2

Q.

Do you know someone who went by Ben?

3

A.

Ben, yes, ma'am.

4

Q.

Did he fill out and submit a Small Business Administration

5

loan application for you in August of 2020?

6

A.

Yes, ma'am.

7

Q.

Before that, had he submitted a loan application for your

8

wife -- excuse me, for your partner, Ms. Anderson?

9

A.

Say that again.

10

Q.

Before he filled out a SBA application for you, did he do

11

one for Wanda Anderson?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Did she get money from that loan?

14

A.

Yes, ma'am.

15

Q.

Did you ever meet Ben in person?

16

A.

Yes, ma'am.

17

Q.

Would you recognize him?

18

A.

Yes, ma'am.

19

Q.

Is he sitting in this room today?

20

A.

Yes, ma'am.

21

Q.

Can you point him out?

22

A.

Yes, ma'am.

23

Q.

Who put you in touch with Ben?

24

A.

Wanda's daughter's husband, Tony.

25

Q.

Is that Anthony Judson?

At the table right behind me?


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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Tony Judson?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Did you call Ben or did Ben call you?

5

A.

I think Wanda had called him for me, if I'm not mistaken,

6

because she wanted to go through the process.

7

go through the process for the business so I think, if I'm not

8

mistaken, I think we called him.

9

Q.

10

have a call with Ben to ask about doing a loan for you?

11

A.

12

two processes going on at the same time, but I think Wanda's was

13

before mine.

14

Q.

15

LLC?

16

A.

17

yes.

18

Q.

Did you tell him what kind of business it was?

19

A.

Yes, yes.

20

Q.

Did he ask you how many employees you had?

21

A.

I don't remember.

22

Q.

What would you have told him if he had asked you?

23

A.

Right.

24

Q.

Would you have told him that you had two employees?

25

A.

Yes.

Okay.

She wanted us to

After Wanda received her loan through him, did you

I think it was almost during the same time, basically the

Did Mr. Okojie know about Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls,

I had to give him that information.

I think I did, yes,

No, I don't think so.


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1

Q.

2

much you had made in the 12 months before January 31st, 2020?

3

A.

I'm not sure.

4

Q.

What would have told him if he had?

5

A.

Whatever the -- whatever we had received on our taxes that

6

year, whatever we made that year.

7

Q.

Would that be the 40,000.00?

8

A.

Yeah, somewhere around in there.

9

Q.

Not over $200,000.00?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

Did you provide Ben with any other information?

12

A.

I think I had to give my driver's license information,

13

social security, business information, whatever -- whatever was

14

required for the business.

15

Q.

16

business, like tax documents, business licenses?

17

A.

No, I didn't have to give that, no.

18

Q.

Okay.

19

loan application for you?

20

A.

Yes, ma'am.

21

Q.

Ms. Roper, will you please pull up Government's Exhibit 2H

22

Page 52 and again will you zoom in on that middle section all

23

the way across.

24
25

Did he ask how much money the business had made or how

Did he ask you to provide any documentation of the

And did Ben tell you he was going to fill out the

Mr. Bey, this is a summary of the loan application that
was submitted in your name.

Can you look at that column and


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1

tell us if that is your personal information?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

Neither you or Unique Pleasant & Smooth Souls made

4

$238,000.00 in the year before January 31st, 2020; correct?

5

A.

Correct.

6

Q.

The business did not have six employees as is reflected on

7

that last line in the bottom; correct?

8

A.

Correct.

9

Q.

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

10

the application was done and submitted?

11

A.

I think -- I'm not sure.

12

Q.

Let me ask you this.

13

you provided him with your information, what happened next?

14

A.

15

valid, I guess e-mail, so I guess, yeah, so I guess he had to

16

give me some type information that the application was done.

17

Q.

18

loan had been approved?

19

A.

I can't remember.

20

Q.

Did you ever give Ben access to your e-mail account?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am.

22

Q.

To your e-mail address, like you gave him your user name

23

and log-in for your e-mail account or did you just give him your

24

e-mail address?

25

A.

Did Ben tell you when

After you spoke to him on the phone,

I was supposed to wait for I guess the information was

Did you receive an e-mail from the SBA saying that your

I believe it was the e-mail.


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1

Q.

2

into a Web site?

3

A.

4

it was.

5

Q.

6

anything?

7

A.

No, ma'am.

8

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you pull up Government's Exhibit 2H again

9

and go to Page 31, please.

10

Do you remember if he created a password for you to log

I believe there was a password but I can't remember what

Do you remember logging into the SBA's Web site to sign

Do you remember ever seeing this document?

11

A.

No.

12

Q.

Can you zoom out, Ms. Roper, and go forward a couple -- I

13

think five pages.

14

document?

15

A.

No, ma'am.

16

Q.

After Ben completed the loan application for you, did you

17

get loan money from the SBA?

18

A.

I did.

19

Q.

How much?

20

A.

If I'm not mistaken I got 119, 119.

21

Q.

$119,000.00?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Did you pay Ben any of that money?

24

A.

Yes, ma'am.

25

Q.

How much?

One more.

Do you remember signing this


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1

A.

I believe it was 17,000.00.

2

Q.

Was that his fee for filling out the loan application?

3

A.

Yes, ma'am.

4

Q.

Did you discuss that fee upfront?

5

A.

I can't remember, but I thought -- I know that's what I

6

had to pay.

7

Q.

8

Okay.

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

Mr. Bey, how did you pay Ben?

9

A.

Cashier's check.

10

Q.

Who was that made out to?

11

A.

I can't remember exactly the company.

12

exactly the company offhand.

13

Q.

Did Ben tell you who to make it out to?

14

A.

Yes, ma'am.

15

Q.

Did you, was your understanding that it was his company?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you pull up Government's Exhibit 12K,

18

please.

19

the check.

20

I can't remember

And if you will go to the second page and zoom in on

Mr. Bey, do you recognize this check?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am.

22

Q.

Is that the check that you gave to Ben?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Is it made out to Kojie9, LLC?

25

A.

Yes.


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1

Q.

Where did you give him this check?

2

A.

I met him and gave it to him.

3

Q.

Where?

4

A.

Right off of Highway 85.

5

Q.

Where are you talking about?

6

A.

It was right in front of a restaurant, Pleasant Hill,

7

Pleasant Hill Road.

8

Q.

Like a parking lot?

9

A.

Parking lot.

10

Q.

Did it strike you as odd at all that he asked you to meet

11

him there?

12

A.

No, not really, not to me, no.

13

Q.

Do you know if he had an office?

14

A.

No.

15

Q.

You don't know or he did not?

16

A.

Right.

17

Q.

It was your understanding, was it your understanding that

18

this loan money was to be used for Unique Pleasant & Smooth

19

Souls, LLC?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

And did you think it was strange at all that -- did you

22

believe that your wife's loan through him was also for Unique

23

Pleasant & Smooth Souls, LLC?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Did you know the money could only be used for business

I don't know.

I don't know about an office, no.


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1

expenses?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

Do you think it was at all strange that you were together

4

able to get a total of $230,000.00 for a business that had never

5

made more than $60,000.00?

6

A.

7

think about it, to be honest with you.

8

business to be able to survive.

9

able to get, to be honest with you.

10

when we weren't able to get anything, so at that time I really

11

didn't even think about it.

12

Q.

Did the loan amount seem high to you?

13

A.

I mean, it was high.

14

was -- I was just thankful we got it.

15

Q.

16

remainder of the money on?

17

A.

18

cars, no jewelry or anything like that.

19

it on the business.

20

Q.

What kinds of things for the business?

21

A.

Bills.

22

gas, car payment, insurance, rent, Internet, just about

23

everything.

24

Q.

25

$200,000.00 into the business in 2020?

At the time, I was -- we was drowning and I didn't even
I just wanted the

I wasn't sure how much we was
If he had -- at first, like

It was high, yes, definitely, but I

After you paid Ben his fee, what did you spend the

Just the business.

I have no track record of buying no
So we basically spent

We have a car that's in the business name.

Takes

So you put that, together you and Ms. Anderson put about


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1

A.

No.

We -- well, we put the money into the business but we

2

didn't put $200,000.00 into the business to pay bills.

3

Q.

So do you have some of the money remaining?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Have you been making payments on the loan?

6

A.

Not yet.

7

Q.

Mr. Bey, did you also get a PPP loan?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

When was that?

10

A.

Yes, somewhere around there.

11

Q.

Do you remember how much money that loan was?

12

A.

I believe it was 30-something thousand, maybe 30-something

13

thousand.

14

Q.

$20,000.00?

15

A.

Something around there, close.

16

Q.

Did you fill out and submit that application?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

Who did?

19

A.

An accountant, another gentleman.

20

Q.

Did he also apply for a PPP loan for your wife?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

For Ms. Anderson.

23

license and a selfie to verify your identity to get that loan?

24

A.

I think so.

25

Q.

Do you know what kind of business that application said

Does 2021 sound accurate?

Do you recall submitting your driver's

I'm not sure.

I think so.


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you had?

2

A.

No.

3

Q.

Did you make $98,000.00 in 2020?

4

A.

How much?

5

Q.

$98,000.00?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Did you work as a barber in 2020?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

Did you know that's what the tax document submitted with

10

that application said that you made and what you did?

11

A.

Now I do.

12

Q.

Did you pay this preparer or accountant a fee?

13

A.

I believe I did.

14

Q.

Do you remember how much?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

Did you know this PPP loan was a loan that you had to pay

17

back?

18

A.

Oh, yes, definitely.

19

Q.

Have you been making payments on that loan?

20

A.

Not yet.

21

Q.

What did you spend that money on?

22

A.

I put everything into the business, nothing extravagant.

23

Everything went to the business.

24

MS. STANLEY:

25

THE COURT:

Nothing further, Your Honor.

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick.


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1

CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

BY MR. OSSICK:

3

Q.

Good morning, Mr. Bey.

4

A.

Good morning.

5

Q.

Couple of questions.

6

in December of 21 with Agents Lott and Dye?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Have you met Agents Lott and Dye?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

Had you met them in December of 2021?

11

A.

I believe it was around that time.

12

Q.

But you had met them in person before this telephone

13

interview?

14

A.

15

we had a telephone ...

16

Q.

Have you met them since then?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

In person?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

Talked with them?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Get ready for your court, talk with them?

23

A.

Yes, sir.

24

Q.

At that meeting, telephone conference in '21, December,

25

was an attorney on the line with you?

No, not in person.

Do you recall a telephone interview

On the phone, I believe on the phone,


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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

And he was representing you and Ms. Anderson?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Did he ask them if you-all were targets?

5

A.

I believe so.

6

Q.

Do you recall what they said?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

This other loan, this other person that helped you apply

9

for the other loan you referred to as an accountant, I believe?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Is his name Steve Santos?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

How did you know him?

14

A.

He had been doing my taxes.

15

MR. OSSICK:

Thank you.

That's all.

16

THE COURT:

Any brief redirect?

17

MS. STANLEY:

18

THE COURT:

19

MS. STANLEY:

20

THE COURT:

21

THE WITNESS:

22

THE COURT:

No, Your Honor.

Any objection to this witness being excused?
No, Your Honor.

You may step down and you're excused.
Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it's just

23

about exactly 10:30, so it's time for our mid-morning break so

24

we will break until approximately 10:45.

25

and every other break, don't discuss the case, don't make up

Remember during this


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1

your mind.

2
3

We will be in recess until 10:45.

Let's rise for this

jury.

4

(The jury exits the courtroom.)

5

THE COURT:

Counsel, without pinning you down on the

6

exact number, approximately how many more witnesses in your case

7

in chief?

8

MR. JOSEPHSON:

9

THE COURT:

10

(Recess from 10:26 a.m. to 10:47 a.m.)

11

THE COURT:

12

(The jury enters the courtroom.)

13

THE COURT:

14

Approximately eight.

We will be in recess until 10:45.

Let's bring in the jury.

Members of the jury, welcome back.

We will

continue with the Government's witnesses.

15

Mr. Josephson, call your next.

16

MR. JOSEPHSON:

17

The Government calls Katina Banks.
KATINA BANKS,

18

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

19

follows:

20
21

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated and if you

will please state your full name and spell your last name.

22

THE WITNESS:

23

Katina Banks, B-a-n-k-s.
DIRECT EXAMINATION

24

BY MR. JOSEPHSON:

25

Q.

Good morning, Ms. Banks.


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1

A.

Good morning.

2

Q.

Do you know the defendant, Bernard Okojie?

3

A.

I know of him.

4

Q.

How do you know of him?

5

A.

I was introduced -- he was introduced to me as a financial

6

adviser.

7

Q.

Who introduced him to you?

8

A.

Ginell Adams.

9

Q.

How do you know Ginell Adams?

10

A.

She is my hair stylist.

11

Q.

Have you met the defendant in person, Bernard Okojie?

12

A.

In person, when I met him to give him the 15 percent.

13

Q.

And when you say 15 percent, 15 percent of what?

14

A.

Of the SBA loan that he prepared.

15

Q.

Do you know what he looks like?

16

A.

Vaguely.

17

Q.

Do you see anyone in this room that looks like the man you

18

dropped the check off with?

19

THE COURT:

20

THE WITNESS:

Do you need to stand up?

21

that I can recall, no.

22

Q.

23

attention --

24

A.

25

do not recall.

Yeah, because I am a little short.

(By Mr. Josephson)

Not

So just I'm going to direct your

Yeah, I figured, you know, after I seen them.

I actually


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1

Q.

This is a specific question.

2

table here the man that you dropped the check off with, do you

3

know?

4

A.

I don't recall.

5

THE COURT:

6

THE WITNESS:

7

him off.

8
9

Is the man seated at the

He -- can I --

You can.
Because the computer is kind of cutting

Yes.
MR. JOSEPHSON:

Please let the record reflect that the

witness has identified the defendant.

10

THE COURT:

It will so reflect.

11

Q.

(By Mr. Josephson)

Ms. Banks, where do you currently

12

work?

13

A.

360care.

14

Q.

What is 360care?

15

A.

It's a mobile clinical service.

16

Q.

And what type of service does the business provide?

17

A.

Podiatry, dental, audiology and podiatry.

18

Q.

Various medical services --

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

-- sounds like.

21

A.

I have a -- Princess House, I am a consultant for Princess

22

House.

23

Q.

What is Princess House?

24

A.

Cookware/dinnerware sales.

25

Q.

Would it be accurate if someone said you sell these items

Do you have a side job?


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1

on the side, a side job of some kind?

2

A.

It's a part-time.

3

Q.

Part-time job?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

How much money, is that your main source of income?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

How much money do you make at 360?

8

A.

Right at 60.

9

Q.

How much money do you make -- actually with the $60,000.00

10

that you make at 360care, do you receive a W-2 for that?

11

A.

Correct.

12

Q.

Does that mean that you're an employee of that business?

13

A.

Correct.

14

Q.

Princess House, how much money do you make doing cookware

15

and dinnerware through Princess House?

16

A.

17

it's anywhere from five to ten.

18

Q.

When you say five to ten --

19

A.

Thousand.

20

Q.

Five to ten thousand dollars?

21

A.

Uh-huh.

22

Q.

Did the defendant help you fill out and submit a SBA loan?

23

A.

He did the total loan.

24

information.

25

Q.

360care is my main source of income.

It varies.

Okay.

In the beginning it was a good bit, but now

He just asked me for my

I want to break that down a little bit.

How did


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1

that come about?

How did he come to file and help you with an

2

SBA loan?

3

A.

4

advisor, that he have a couple of other businesses helping

5

people get a small business, recover credit, so forth.

6

introduced to him by Ginell, and she gave him my number and I

7

reached out to him and I pretty much asked him if he was helping

8

people during the pandemic, during the pandemic to get loans to

9

help small business.

10

business as, you know, being a consultant, and he asked me for

11

my information, name, date of birth, social, address.

12

it.

13

Q.

14

financial adviser; is that correct?

15

A.

Correct, correct.

16

Q.

Did you ever see any licenses or certifications of the

17

defendant --

18

A.

I didn't.

19

Q.

-- that would show he is, in fact, a financial adviser?

20

A.

I didn't.

21

Q.

Was that information that Ginell just told you?

22

A.

Correct.

23

Q.

You mentioned that you considered Princess House your

24

business?

25

A.

Well, like I said, he was introduced as a financial

I was

I considered Princess House my small

That was

You mentioned that the defendant was introduced as a

1099.

I trusted Ginell's judgment.

Do you receive a Form 1099?


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1

Q.

2

contractors?

3

A.

Correct.

4

Q.

Not business owners?

5

A.

No.

6

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you display Government 2D, and can we zoom

7

in on the top row, "General Company Information."

8

And is Form 1099 a form that's issued to independent

Ms. Banks, is that your name next to the field "Legal

9

Name"?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

I want to start by identifying the document which has been

12

entered into evidence.

13

loan files.

14

A.

Okay.

15

Q.

I'm going to be asking you some questions about what's on

16

this document.

17

"Business Full Address" field?

18

A.

That was home, yes.

19

Q.

And is the address 653 Little Neck Road, Apartment 2302,

20

Savannah, Georgia 31419?

21

A.

Yes, it was at that time.

22

Q.

Did you reside in Savannah while the application process

23

was going on?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Is that your e-mail, phone number on the right-hand side

This is a certified copy of your SBA

Is this your business address next to the


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1

there?

2

A.

Yes, it is.

3

Q.

2D2, please, Ms. Roper.

4

of the loan.

5

Can we zoom in on 2D2, the amount

Ms. Banks, if you could read out the number next to amount

6

in the "Loan Info" row?

7

A.

$123,400.00.

8

Q.

Is that the amount of money that you received from the

9

Small Business Administration?

10

A.

Yes, before the 15 percent.

11

Q.

And again, what is the 15 percent, the amount that you

12

paid --

13

A.

Of the total that was paid to Ben.

14

Q.

Was this amount of money surprising to you?

15

A.

In the beginning, yes, it was.

16

Q.

How much money did you say you made from Princess House?

17

A.

Five to ten.

18

Q.

Five to ten thousand dollars?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

And you got $123,400.00 from the SBA?

21

A.

It was a surprise, but it was during the pandemic.

22

wasn't sure what the guidelines and all that was.

23

what the payout was really going to be.

24

Q.

25

amount was correct?

I

I didn't know

Did you ask any questions about that, about whether the


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A.

2

keeping me posted of when it's to be expected and when it

3

actually was deposited.

4

Q.

Did you ask him, "Hey, 123 looks too high"?

5

A.

I didn't say it was too high.

6

you get that much?"

7

Q.

Did you have any discussion about giving the money back?

8

A.

To be honest with you, no, in the pandemic ...

9

Q.

2D55, please.

10

Industry," Line 31.

11

I did in the beginning when it first hit because he was

I just said, "Wow, how did

If we could scroll to the "Business/

Ms. Banks on Line 31, it says "Business Activity"?

12

A.

Uh-huh.

13

Q.

And what is the activity that's listed there?

14

A.

It says health services.

15

Q.

Do you have a health services business?

16

A.

I do not.

17

Q.

So that would be inaccurate?

18

A.

Correct.

19

Q.

Can we zoom in on Line 14, Ms. Roper.

20

that says "Gross Revenues for the 12 Months Prior to the Day of

21

the Disaster," COVID-19, in this case, January 31st, 2020.

22

much money does this form say that you made in gross revenues in

23

the year prior to the pandemic?

24

A.

$246,800.00, which is definitely incorrect.

25

Q.

Definitely incorrect?

I'm reading Line 14

How


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A.

Correct.

2

Q.

Did you say that you sell cookware and dinnerware as a

3

part of your Princess House?

4

A.

5

Princess House and I'm a consultant and what the items were.

6

Q.

7

sell a lot of cookware and dinnerware; correct?

8

A.

9

... but that's extreme.

10

Q.

That's a lot of pots?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

Did you do that?

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

Can we zoom in on Line 33, "Number of Employees," Ms.

15

Roper.

16

Yeah.

He did ask him the business name, and I told him

To make $246,800.00 in gross revenue you would have to

Yes.

I mean, there are $150.00 or $200.00 pots, but still

Ms. Banks, how many employees does your SBA application

17

represent that you employed as of January 31st, 2020?

18

A.

It said seven.

19

Q.

You had zero employees?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

So seven would be inaccurate?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Did you tell Bernard Okojie that you had seven employees?

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

Did you tell him that you made $246,800.00?

I had no employees.

It's just me.


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1

A.

Absolutely not.

2

Q.

Did you tell him that you employed seven people?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

What did you tell him?

5

A.

I told him that I was a consultant for Princess House and

6

the type product that I did sell.

7

me nothing about employees.

8

Q.

Did you give him your personal information?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

And what type of information did you provide?

11

A.

That I can recall, it was the name, of course, the

12

address, date of birth, social security number, Princess House

13

title consultant.

14

Q.

15

That was it.

He didn't ask

That was it.

Please display Government's 12G, Ms. Roper, 12G.
Ms. Banks, did you pay the defendant for completing the

16

application we just discussed?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Was that a percentage of the loan?

19

A.

Correct.

20

Q.

Do you recognize the bank statement that is excerpted on

21

Government 12G?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Is that your bank statement?

24

A.

It is my bank statement.

25

Q.

And on this bank statement, there is an entry on July the


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27th that says $123,300.00 with some fees was deposited into

2

your account?

3

A.

Correct.

4

Q.

Are these the loan proceeds?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

You received these?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

Can we move to 12G2?

9

the page.

10

Zoom in on the check at the top of

Ms. Banks, do you recognize this check?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

And what is the date of that check at the top right-hand

13

corner?

14

A.

July 29th of 2020.

15

Q.

And the amount?

16

A.

$18,495.00.

17

Q.

And is your name Katina L. Banks?

18

A.

Correct.

19

Q.

And this is your bank account?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Who is this check made out?

22

A.

B&K Freight, LLC.

23

Q.

Why did you make this check out to B&K Freight, LLC?

24

A.

That's who he told me to make it out.

25

Q.

Who is "he"?

Who is the entity next to --


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A.

Ben, that's who Ben told me to make it out to.

I didn't

2

question it because he had multiple businesses.

3

and I trusted him.

4

Q.

Do you know the defendant as Ben?

5

A.

Ben, yes.

6

Q.

Was it strange to you that you paid for loan processing

7

fees to a freight company?

8

A.

9

I knew he had multiple businesses.

10

choosing to put that funds somewhere else -- somewhere, wherever

11

he wanted it to be put.

12

Q.

13

high to you?

14

A.

That is high.

15

Q.

Had you ever paid a financial fee that high in your life?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

Please display Government 16B.

18

let me start by asking you, have you been interviewed in this

19

case by the agents?

20

A.

Correct.

21

Q.

And have you provided some of the text messages between

22

you and the defendant?

23

A.

Correct.

24

Q.

Do you recognize this text message excerpt in Government

25

16B?

It wasn't --

Like I said, it wasn't strange to me at that time because
I just thought he was

$18,000.00, $18,495.00 as a processing fee, does that seem

If you could, Ms. Banks,


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A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Let's start at the top.

3

the text message in terms of who it is from?

4

A.

"SBA Ben ATL."

5

Q.

Is that how he was saved in your phone?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

Why did you save him as "SBA Ben ATL"?

8

A.

Because he had told me that he was from Atlanta and that

9

he was -- you know, he was doing the SBA, he was helping people

10

with the SBA loans.

11

Q.

12

with the SBA?

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

Did you just associate with him --

15

A.

Correct.

16

Q.

-- because he was processing loans?

17

A.

Correct.

18

Q.

Could you read the text message?

19

A.

"Hey beautiful sorry delayed response.

20

day for me all day.

21

have your information anymore but you can log in yourself and

22

see and I'm also positive I used sole proprietor I use to apply

23

for you.

24

account when I was doing the loan.

25

log in, put your e-mail as user name, then used this as password

What does it say at the top of

Did he represent or hold himself out as being affiliated

Been a very busy

I can't really remember because I don't

Go back to the e-mail where they said create an
Click on it where it says


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1

and then 654321Ab.

It should take you into your account and

2

there will be -- there will see the information you are asking

3

about."

4

Q.

5

defendant discussing how to get information about your

6

application --

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

-- from the portal?

9

information?

10

A.

11

because it hit me after the fact that this was a lot.

12

curious to know what did this man put on my application, and

13

that's when I reached out to him and that was my question, "Do

14

you have a copy of my application?"

15

Q.

Okay, and then --

16

A.

This is my -- this is the reply I got.

17

Q.

From him?

18

A.

To pretty much look in it, go into it myself.

19

Q.

This is after you paid him $18,000.00?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

And he told you basically "Figure it out yourself; this is

22

your information"?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

In terms of the information he provides a password?

25

A.

Correct.

In general, is this a conversation between you and the

What were you trying to get, what

I wanted to see what exactly he put on that application
I was


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1

Q.

What's the password that's listed there?

2

A.

654321Ab.

3

Q.

And what does he direct you to use for the user name?

4

A.

My e-mail address.

5

Q.

Did you use that user name and password to log into the

6

SBA account?

7

A.

8

information to be able to get into the account.

9

to touch the account, not to touch anything in there until it

10

gets approved.

11

Q.

12

the account?

13

A.

14

type signature.

15

Q.

In order to get the loan money, you had to sign something?

16

A.

Correct.

17

Q.

Did you read any of those documents?

18

A.

No, I didn't.

19

Q.

Did the defendant ever ask you for the names of other

20

people who might be good SBA loan customers?

21

A.

22

interested in a Small -- an SBA loan that have a small business,

23

yes.

24

Q.

And did you make any referrals or recommend any names?

25

A.

I did.

Yes, because that's what he gave me.

He gave me the
I was told not

Do you recall signing any documents when you logged into

When he told me to go in, yes, I did.

I did a digital

He did ask me if I had anyone else that would be


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1

Q.

Who did you recommend?

2

A.

My aunt, Angela Lovelady, and I did mention Kelvin

3

Fletcher.

4

Q.

We talked about how you got $123,400.00 in the loan?

5

A.

Uh-huh.

6

Q.

Did you spend any of that money on personal expenses?

7

A.

Credit cards.

8

Q.

Did you use it to pay off a car?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

And did you use it occasionally for rent money?

11

A.

Yes.

I paid off credit cards.

12

MR. JOSEPHSON:

13

THE COURT:

No further questions, Your Honor.

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick.

14

EXAMINATION

15

BY MR. OSSICK:

16

Q.

17

with Agent Dye; is that correct?

18

A.

Correct.

19

Q.

And some were over the phone and some were in person?

20

A.

Correct.

21

Q.

When did you most recently talk with him?

22

A.

I believe it was last week around pretrial kind of.

23

Q.

Getting ready for?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Do you recall how many times you've talked with him?

Ms. Banks, you indicated that you had some conversations


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1

A.

At least -- at least three total after I met with him.

2

Q.

Three after you met with him?

3

A.

Uh-huh.

4

Q.

And you met him with at your house; is that correct?

5

A.

Initially, yes.

6

Q.

And that was in July of 2021?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

And he interviewed you at that time?

9

A.

Correct.

10

Q.

In that meeting, do you recall him telling you that "You

11

know any loans that you were getting, that were received with

12

false statements or misrepresentations is a federal crime"?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Do you recall him telling you that "Right now you need to

15

think about yourself, that you may be able to help yourself"?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Told you he couldn't promise anything but maybe there's an

18

opportunity for you to help them out and provide things to them;

19

is that correct?

20

A.

That's correct.

21

Q.

And so you provided things; is that right?

22

A.

That's right.

23

Q.

And that's like this text that you did?

24

A.

Correct.

25

Q.

And you continued to talk, he continued to talk with you


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1

about how that could help you out -- is that true -- during that

2

meeting?

3

A.

Correct.

4

Q.

And he told you, didn't he, that "If you are going to help

5

us, it has to be the way we say to do it; do you understand

6

that"?

7

A.

I don't recall that.

8

Q.

Do you recall him telling you about who you could or

9

couldn't discuss something with?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Did he tell you that if you didn't do it that you could

12

lose the opportunity to help yourself?

13

A.

14

was right.

15

Q.

Not to help yourself?

16

A.

Of course, I want to help myself, yeah.

Do you recall him telling you something of that nature?
I don't recall that.

No, it was not -- no, I did it because I wanted to do what

17

MR. OSSICK:

Okay, thank you.

18

THE COURT:

Any brief redirect?

19

MR. JOSEPHSON:

20

Brief redirect, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

21

BY MR. JOSEPHSON:

22

Q.

Ms. Banks, are you here today to tell the truth?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Are you here today just to say whatever you think the

25

Government wants you to hear -- let me ask that again.

Are you


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1

here today to testify to facts just because the Government wants

2

you to say something?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

Has anybody from the United States Government, Agent Dye,

5

Ms. Stanley, Agent Lott has anybody ever promised you anything

6

with respect to this investigation?

7

A.

No.

8

MR. JOSEPHSON:

No further questions, Your Honor.

9

THE COURT:

10

MS. STANLEY:

No, Your Honor.

11

MR. OSSICK:

No.

12

THE COURT:

Ms. Banks, you may be excused.

13

Call your next witness.

14

MS. STANLEY:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

15

The Government calls Angela Lovelady.
ANGELA LOVELADY,

16

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

17

follows:

18

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

19

MS. STANLEY:

20

THE CLERK:

spell your last name.

22

THE WITNESS:

Okay, my name is Angela Lovelady.

L-o-v-e-l-a-d-y.

24
25

Good morning, Ms. Lovelady.

If you will please state your full name and

21

23

You may be seated.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. STANLEY:


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1

Q.

Ms. Lovelady, in what city and state do you live?

2

A.

I live in Huntsville, Alabama.

3

Q.

Where do you work?

4

A.

My full time job, I work at NASA.

5

Q.

And what do you do at NASA?

6

A.

I am a program analyst, budget analyst at NASA.

7

Q.

You work with finances?

8

A.

Yes, ma'am.

9

Q.

Do you also have a business?

10

A.

Yes, ma'am.

11

Q.

What kind of business is that?

12

A.

It is a professional vocational business, coaching, event

13

coordinating, event planning and things like that, coaching.

14

Q.

What's it -- go ahead, I'm sorry.

15

A.

It's, like I said, coaching, event planning, event

16

coordinating, just, you know, doing things in the community to

17

help people plan events and things.

Yes, ma'am.

18

THE COURT:

What do you coach?

19

THE WITNESS:

20

destiny, destiny life coach.

21

Inspired By A Lovelady.

22

Q.

(By Ms. Stanley)

23

A.

No, ma'am.

24

Q.

Do you know Bernard Okojie?

25

A.

Yes, ma'am.

It's people.

It's a life coach, coaching

The name of the business is

Do you have a health services business?


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1

Q.

Do you know him by another name?

2

A.

Ben.

3

Q.

Have you met with Ben before?

4

A.

One time.

5

Q.

Would you recognize him?

6

A.

I would -- I would say so.

7

Q.

Do you see him in this room?

8

individual sitting at the table to my left, is this the man that

9

you know as Ben?

10

A.

Let me ask you this:

Can I stand up?

11

THE COURT:

12

THE WITNESS:

Okay, thank you.

13

MS. STANLEY:

And let the record reflect that the

14

Is the

Yes.
Yes, ma'am.

witness has identified the defendant.

15

THE COURT:

It will so reflect.

16

Q.

(By Ms. Stanley)

How do you meet Ben, Ms. Lovelady?

17

A.

My niece, she contacted me and told me about Mr. Ben's

18

services and what he was providing as far as, you know, being a

19

financial adviser, instructor, and so I met him through my

20

niece.

21

Q.

Who is your niece?

22

A.

Katina Banks.

23

Q.

Do you know if Ben had gotten an SBA loan for her?

24

A.

Yes, ma'am.

25

Q.

Did Ben fill out an application for an SBA loan for you in

That's how I contacted him.


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1

August of 2020?

2

A.

Yes, ma'am.

3

Q.

Did you speak with him on the phone around that time?

4

A.

Yes, ma'am.

5

Q.

Did you call him or did he call you?

6

A.

I called him.

7

Q.

Did Ben ask you if you had a business?

8

A.

Yes, ma'am.

9

Q.

What did you tell him?

10

A.

Yes, ma'am.

11

Q.

And what did you tell him about your business?

12

A.

You know, I told him that, you know, I did coaching or

13

whatever, but we didn't really talk about the business much.

14

was mainly, you know, trying to establish that I did have a

15

business.

16

Q.

Did you give him your personal information?

17

A.

I did.

18

Q.

Do you remember which pieces of personal information you

19

gave him?

20

A.

Whew.

21

Q.

Your name?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Social security number?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

How about your date of birth?

Of course.

It


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1

A.

Date of birth, e-mail address, telephone number.

2

Q.

Bank account information?

3

A.

Bank account information.

4

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie or Ben ask you if the business had any

5

employees?

6

A.

7

remember that conversation.

8

Q.

9

employees besides you?

10

A.

No, ma'am.

11

Q.

How much did that business make in the 12 months before

12

January 31st, 2020, so basically 2019?

13

A.

14

it was under $10,000.00.

15

Q.

Has the business ever made more than that in a year?

16

A.

No, ma'am.

17

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie ask how much the business made during that

18

same time period?

19

A.

20

the income of that business and I told him it was under 10K.

21

Q.

22

application for you?

23

A.

Yes, ma'am.

24

Q.

Did he ask you to provide any documentation about the

25

business?

I don't remember us talking about employees.

I don't

Does the business Inspired By A Lovelady have any

It was under -- I don't know the exact amount but I know

He did not ask -- he did not ask -- he just said what was

Did Ben tell you that he was going to fill out the loan


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1

A.

2

business bank account.

3

Q.

Which bank account did you give him the information for?

4

A.

It was a Regions Bank for the Inspired By A Lovelady

5

business.

6

Q.

7

and go to Page 71 and zoom in on that middle section, please.

8

No, ma'am, just the business bank account, that it was a

Ms. Roper, will you please pull up Government's Exhibit 2I

And I know the font is small, Ms. Lovelady.

Looking at

9

Line 8, does it say Inspired By A Lovelady?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

That's the name of your business?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Looking at Line 14 where it says gross revenues for the 12

14

months prior to the date of the disaster, January 31st, 2020,

15

what number is on that line?

16

A.

$246,000.00.

17

Q.

Is that how much money the business made during that time

18

period?

19

A.

No, ma'am.

20

Q.

And is that your address?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am, it is.

22

Q.

Is that your phone number?

23

A.

Yes, ma'am.

24

Q.

And is that your e-mail address?

25

A.

Yes, ma'am.


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1

Q.

2

health services business?

3

A.

That's what this says.

4

Q.

And that is incorrect?

5

A.

That's incorrect.

6

Q.

Lastly the last line on the page, 33, how many employees

7

does it say that your business had?

8

A.

Four.

9

Q.

That is incorrect?

10

A.

That's incorrect.

11

Q.

Thank you.

12

Line 31, business activity, does that say that this is a

Ms. Roper, you can take that down.

Ms. Lovelady, when Ben had finished filling out the

13

application, did he tell you when it was done?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

And what happened next in the process?

16

A.

Okay, from what I can recall.

17

when he, you know, replied and said that "The information is in,

18

you can expect" -- well, I think when the information was in, I

19

had to, the document came, the promissory note, I guess you

20

could call it, it came where I would agree to pay for the, you

21

know, borrow the money, and I did sign that I would borrow the

22

money.

23

Q.

24

into a Web site?

25

A.

When the information --

Do you remember if Ben created a password for you to log

Yes, ma'am, I believe -- yes, ma'am.


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1

Q.

Is that how you logged into the SBA Web site to sign the

2

promissory note?

3

A.

Yes, ma'am.

4

Q.

Did you ultimately get loan money from the SBA?

5

A.

Yes, ma'am.

6

Q.

How much?

7

A.

123,000.00.

8

Q.

Was that deposited into your Regions Bank account?

9

A.

Yes, ma'am.

10

Q.

Did you pay Ben any of that money?

11

A.

Yes, ma'am.

12

Q.

How much?

13

A.

It was around 18, it was more than 18,000.00.

14

18,243.00 or something like that, 18,000.00.

15

Q.

Was that his fee for filling out the loan application?

16

A.

Yes, ma'am.

17

Q.

Did he tell you that it was a percentage of the loan

18

amount?

19

A.

Yes, ma'am.

20

Q.

And did he tell you what that percentage was upfront?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am, I knew it upfront, yes, ma'am.

22

Q.

Did that seem high?

23

A.

I never -- I never had, you know, asked for services, you

24

know, before, so I thought that that was, you know -- that was

25

the fee and I -- you know, I agreed to pay the fee.

Maybe


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Q.

2

had never made more than $10,000.00?

3

A.

4

knew he knew more than me.

5

allowances, the special provisions and things like that, so I

6

actually thought that that was like the maximum amount that I

7

could borrow, so I agreed to pay the maximum amount to borrow.

8

That's, you know, so that's -- that's where I was.

9

thought that was the maximum amount that I could borrow.

10

Q.

11

and go to Page 2.

12

Did that loan amount seem high to you for a business that

Well, I didn't know -- I paid for his services because I
He knew, you know, maybe the

You know, I

Ms. Roper, will you please put Government's Exhibit 12L

Ms. Lovelady, how did you pay Ben for his fee?

13

A.

It was a cashier's check.

14

Q.

Is this that check?

15

A.

Yes, ma'am.

16

Q.

Who is it made out to?

17

A.

It is made out to B&K Freight, LLC.

18

Q.

Did you know what that business was?

19

A.

No, ma'am.

20

know.

21

make the check out to?"

22

did.

23

Q.

24

box is under the check number at the top?

25

A.

It was -- you know, it was his business, you

Like I said, I -- that's what he -- I asked, "Who do I
That's what he said so that's what I

Let me direct your attention, do you see where that red

Yes, ma'am.


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1

Q.

What does that say after your name?

2

A.

"Truck leasing."

3

Q.

Did you put that on the cashier's check?

4

A.

Yes, ma'am.

5

Q.

Did he tell you to do that?

6

A.

Yes, ma'am.

7

Q.

Did that seem strange to you?

8

A.

No, ma'am.

9

Q.

You knew this check wasn't for truck leasing?

10

A.

Yes, ma'am.

11

do, so I thought that was the -- since he was a financial

12

wizard, if I may say that, I thought that that's what he wanted

13

this money to go, that's how he wanted it categorized for his,

14

you know -- where he wanted the check to go.

15

Q.

Where did you meet him to give him this check?

16

A.

I met him in -- in Tennessee.

17

Q.

About how far is that from your home?

18

A.

It's probably about hour and a half maybe or so.

19

Q.

Where did you meet him in Chattanooga?

20

A.

It was like on the main street, Broad Street, so it's kind

21

of like the Chattanooga hotel.

22

place to meet him that was, you know, that was easy to find.

23

Q.

Did you know where he was living at the time?

24

A.

I was told he lived in Atlanta.

25

Q.

Did it seem strange to you -- did he -- let me back up.

I mean, I didn't -- I did what he asked me to

That's what I ...

Chattanooga, Tennessee.

I was just trying to find a


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Did he ask to meet in Chattanooga or how did y'all decide

2

to meet in Chattanooga?

3

A.

4

going to be en route stopping at this place.

5

would be -- that would be fair to get a halfway point especially

6

since I was already, you know, going to be out, so I did choose

7

the place.

8

Q.

Where did y'all meet in Chattanooga?

9

A.

It was --

10

Q.

What establishment were you at?

11

A.

It was the Chattanooga hotel.

12

name, but it was the main hotel in that area on Broad Street.

13

Q.

Do you go into the hotel?

14

A.

No, ma'am.

15

Q.

You met in the parking lot?

16

A.

Yes, ma'am, basically.

17

Q.

Ms. Roper, will you please pull up Government's 16C and go

18

to Page 6.

19

No.

I asked could I meet him in Chattanooga because I was
So I thought that

I can't remember the exact

Ms. Lovelady, did you provide the Government with some

20

text messages between you and Ben?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am.

22

Q.

Are these those text messages?

23

A.

Yes, ma'am.

24

Q.

At the top where it says "SBA loan officer," is that how

25

you identified Ben in your phone?


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1

A.

2

was an SBA loan that I was trying to acquire, so I wanted to

3

make sure that I knew that that was -- that conversation.

4

Q.

5

Administration?

6

A.

He did not.

7

Q.

Did he tell you that he had a financial advisory company?

8

A.

He did not tell me, but that's what I was told, that he

9

was, you know, a financial adviser.

10

Q.

That's what your niece told you?

11

A.

Yes, ma'am.

12

Q.

Did he ever provide you with any kind of licenses or any

13

other indication of a financial business?

14

A.

No, ma'am.

15

Q.

Let me direct your attention, Ms. Lovelady, to that text

16

at the bottom of the page.

17

That's how I identified him in my phone because I knew it

Did he tell you that he worked for the Small Business

I know it's kind of small.

Do you see where it says end of the sentence "fine," can

18

you read that next line for me, please?

19

A.

"Cashier check should be B&K Freight, LLC."

20

Q.

What about the text below that?

21

A.

"If they ask purposes just tell them for truck leasing."

22

Q.

Who is sending those text messages?

23

A.

Ben.

24

Q.

And did you respond to that?

25

A.

"Okay, will do, thanks."


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Q.

2

cashier's check that you gave to Ben?

3

A.

Yes, ma'am.

4

Q.

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

5

And was this the discussion of how to address the

Ms. Lovelady, did you know that this money was a business

6

loan?

7

A.

Yes, ma'am.

8

Q.

And did you know that the money was to be used on business

9

expenses?

10

A.

Yes, ma'am.

11

Q.

Did you know this money was a loan that you had to pay

12

back?

13

A.

Yes, ma'am.

14

Q.

After you paid Ben his fee, what did you spend the rest of

15

the loan money on?

16

A.

17

and materials and some equipment for the business.

18

company vehicle.

19

Q.

20

remember?

21

A.

22

cost.

23

Q.

And did you treat some of the money as salary?

24

A.

Yes -- I would say, yes, ma'am, because I used that to

25

survive during the pandemic to help support my family.

I made payments to the SBA.

Bought, of course, supplies
I bought a

About how much did you spend on that vehicle, do you

It was around 40, about 45, 46K is how much the vehicle


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MS. STANLEY:

No further questions, Your Honor.

2

THE COURT:

Cross-examination?

3

MR. OSSICK:

No questions.

4

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

5

MS. STANLEY:

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

THE COURT:

9

MS. STANLEY:

No, ma'am.

You may step down.
Thank you.

Call your next witness.

10

The Government calls Princewill Moneme.
PRINCEWILL MONEME,

11

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

12

follows:

13

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

14

SPEAKER:

15

THE COURT:

Continue, counsel.

16

THE CLERK:

You may be seated.

17

And, sir, if you will please state your full name and

Your Honor, I just wanted to note this.

18

spell your last name.

19

THE WITNESS:

20

You may be seated.

Princewill Moneme.

M-o-n-e-m-e, my last

name.

21

DIRECT EXAMINATION

22

BY MS. STANLEY:

23

Q.

Where do you live?

24

A.

I live at 7545 Tyler Road, Jonesboro, Georgia.

25

Q.

Can I ask you to lean forward a little closer to the mike


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so we can all hear you and speak up as best you can.

2

What do you do for a living, Mr. Moneme?

3

A.

Transportation.

I drive Uber.

4

I'm a truck driver as well.

5

Q.

Do you know the defendant, Bernard Okojie?

6

A.

I've met him before.

7

Q.

Would you recognize him?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Do you see him in the room this morning?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Can you identify him, where he is?

12

A.

Right there.

13

MS. STANLEY:

14

has identified the defendant.

15

THE COURT:

I drive Lyft.

Thank you.

I drive --

Let the record reflect that the witness

It will so reflect.

16

Q.

(By Ms. Stanley)

How did you meet Mr. Okojie?

17

A.

A friend of mine referred him to me.

18

Q.

Why did he refer you to him?

19

A.

I met him, he referred me to him prior to when I was

20

looking for a facilitator.

21

Q.

A what?

22

A.

A credit facilitator like a loan.

23

Q.

A loan?

24

A.

Yes, ma'am.

25

Q.

Did he help you with your credit in any way, with your


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credit score?

2

A.

My credit score?

3

Q.

Yes.

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie apply for an SBA loan for you?

6

A.

Yes, he did.

7

Q.

In July 2020?

8

A.

I can't be exact with the date but in 2020.

9

Q.

And a mutual friend put you in touch with him; correct?

10

A.

My friend that referred him to him, to Mr. Ben?

11

Q.

Yeah.

12

friend connected the two of you.

13

A.

Yes, ma'am.

14

Q.

And were you interested in getting an SBA loan?

15

tell your mutual friend that?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

Your friend mentioned that he was doing SBA loans?

18

A.

He didn't mention it was an SBA.

19

for a credit facility or a loan because I had an issue, so in

20

the course of discussion with my friend, he said, oh, he knows

21

one Ben that can help me to get a loan, so he give me his -- his

22

contact.

23

Q.

Did you call him?

24

A.

I did call him.

25

Q.

And what did he tell you during that phone call?

Is that what happened?

I believe you said a mutual

Did you

I told him I was looking


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1

A.

2

to assist with the loan application or to get a loan, so what

3

are the requirements?"

4

was going to send me the requirements and that was the

5

conversation we had.

6

Q.

Did he ask you if you had a business?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

Do you have a business?

9

A.

I drive for myself, and I have a 1099, so I'm an

10

independent contractor.

11

Q.

Do you have any employees?

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

So he didn't ask you if you had any employees?

14

A.

No, he just send me a template on WhatsApp on what it was

15

I should give him, which includes just my name, phone number,

16

address, my account details, my e-mail.

17

Q.

18

and go to Page 2.

19

When I called him, I said, "My friend referred me to you

That is what I asked him so he said he

That was all.

Ms. Roper, can you please pull up Government's Exhibit 16A

Mr. Moneme, you mentioned that -- let me back up.

Can you

20

identify this?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

What is this?

23

A.

So this was the -- the -- like the WhatsApp conversation

24

between the two of us after I called him.

25

requirements," so he said he's going to send it to me so he

I said, "What are the


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sends the things needed to me, which include my name, address,

2

county where I live, date of birth, my basic information, so I

3

sent it to him.

4

Q.

And was this the only information you provided to him?

5

A.

Perfect.

6

Q.

He didn't ask you about how much money you had made?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

After this, did he fill out a loan application for you?

9

A.

Whatever he did afterwards it was not privileged to me

10

because all he asked me, I asked him what are the requirements.

11

He sent this and this was my response to it and that was the

12

only thing I know of behind that.

13

Q.

Did you receive an SBA loan?

14

A.

I received a loan.

15

know the source but it was credited to my account.

16

Q.

Do you know where that loan was from?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Was it from the Small Business Administration?

19

A.

Yes, ma'am.

20

Q.

Did you give Mr. Okojie access to your e-mail account?

21

A.

Yes.

22

details so that he can be able to follow up with whatever it is,

23

the requirements are, because I drive most of the time.

24

be able to check real time online on my phone so I gave him

25

everything that he needed.

Just after this conversation, that was it.

At the time I received it, I didn't

Because after I did, so he asked for my -- my log-in

I can't


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1

Q.

2

access those?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you please pull up Government's Exhibit 2C

5

and go to Page 56.

6

the way across, please.

7

So if the SBA sent you e-mails, would he have been able to

Will you zoom in on that middle section all

Mr. Moneme, looking at the top of this section, Line 8

8

where it says "Business Legal Name," is that your name?

9

A.

That was my name.

10

Q.

Line Number 10, is that your social security number?

11

A.

Yes, ma'am.

12

Q.

Line Number 14 where it says "Gross Revenues for the

13

12-Month Prior to the Date of the Disaster, January 31st, 2020,"

14

do you see that number?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

What number is that?

17

A.

$234,000.00.

18

Q.

Did you make that much money in that period?

19

A.

No.

20

Q.

Did you tell Mr. Okojie you made that much money?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

Is that your address, looking a little further down on the

23

page, in Jonesboro?

24

A.

Yes, ma'am.

25

Q.

Is that your telephone number?


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1

A.

Yes, ma'am.

2

Q.

Is that your e-mail address?

3

A.

Yes, ma'am.

4

Q.

Looking at the last line on the page, Number 3, "Number of

5

Employees as of January 31st of 2020," what number is in that

6

line?

7

A.

Four.

8

Q.

And you previously stated you don't have any employees;

9

correct?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

12

So you did not sign any documents to get this loan?

13

A.

I did not.

14

Q.

Is that correct?

15

A.

I did not.

16

Q.

Was that loan money from the SBA deposited into your bank

17

account?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Is that a Bank of America bank account?

20

A.

Yes, ma'am.

21

Q.

Did you pay Ben any of that money?

22

A.

Yeah.

23

Q.

Did you negotiate that fee?

24

A.

Yeah, because I -- when he only told me about the fee, I

25

was like "20 percent is a whole lot because this is a loan I'm

He took 12 percent of the -- of the amount.


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applying for and I have to pay it," so I told him no, so had to

2

kind of back and forth because he presented himself as "This is

3

what I do for a living," so I said okay, and we arrive at 12

4

percent.

5

Q.

He initially asked you for 20 percent?

6

A.

Yes, ma'am.

7

Q.

How did you pay him?

8

A.

When the money got credited to the account, we went to the

9

bank together so I got a cashier's check from the bank and gave

10

it to him.

11

Q.

Did he go into the bank with you?

12

A.

No.

13

check from the cashier in the bank.

14

premises.

15

check.

16

Q.

Where was the bank?

17

A.

Somewhere in Riverdale.

18

Q.

In Georgia?

19

A.

Yes, ma'am.

20

Q.

Ms. Roper, will you please pull up Government's Exhibit

21

12F and go to the second page of that document.

22

in on the check at the bottom.

23

He was in the parking lot but I got the cashier's
I came out of the banking

I met him in the parking lot and I gave him the

Will you zoom

Is this the check that you gave Ben?

24

A.

I didn't have a clear look at the check, so I can't be

25

able to say if it is yes or no.


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1

Q.

Let me ask you this:

2

you see where it says "Remitter Purchased By"?

3

A.

Do what?

4

Q.

Can you read this, please?

5

A.

"Remitter Purchased by Princewill Moneme."

6

Q.

And this check is from Bank of America; is that correct?

7

A.

Yes, ma'am.

8

Q.

That's where you went to check get the cashier's check?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

And what's the amount of this check?

11

A.

$14,040.00.

12

Q.

Did Mr. Okojie tell you who to make this check out to?

13

A.

He gave me his company name.

14

Q.

Is that what's reflected on this check?

15

A.

Yes, ma'am.

16

Q.

What's the name of that company?

17

A.

B&K Freight, LLC.

18

Q.

Did you think it was odd that you were paying this fee for

19

a financial service to a freight company?

20

A.

No.

21

Q.

Do you know what a freight company is?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

Did you ask him any questions about what this business

24

was?

25

A.

No.

I know it's a little unclear, but do

Say that again.

He -- he just made himself look like "This is my


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1

business and this is the business name," so I don't need to

2

start asking him what is the business for.

3

Q.

Mr. Moneme, did you know that this was a business loan?

4

A.

No.

5

My name is Princewill Moneme, and when I met him for this loan,

6

I asked for a personal loan with my name and my social security

7

number.

8

Q.

Did you know that it was a loan that you had to pay back?

9

A.

I apply for a loan to pay back, so I assumed that was a

10

loan to pay back and I've been paying my money.

11
12

I applied for a personal loan with my personal name.

So that was all I know about it.

MS. STANLEY:

You can take that down, Ms. Roper.

Nothing further.

13

THE COURT:

Cross-examination.

14

CROSS-EXAMINATION

15

BY MR. OSSICK:

16

Q.

Do you know Mrs. Okojie?

17

A.

Mr. Okojie or Mrs. Okojie?

18

Q.

Mrs., his wife.

19

A.

I can't recognize her.

20

Q.

You can't remember if you know her?

21

A.

I can't recognize if I see her.

22

Q.

You haven't seen her recently that you know of, then?

23

A.

I haven't seen her recently.

24

Q.

How many times have you talked with Agent Dye, FBI Agent

25

Dye?

Have you ever talked with him?

Let me start there, I


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1

guess.

2

A.

3

year.

4

Q.

So you've only had the one conversation with him?

5

A.

No.

6

been subpoenaed to come and testify for this.

7

Q.

And when was that?

8

A.

I can't be exact with dates, but it's like two or three,

9

four weeks, two or three weeks ago.

10

Q.

11

telephone conversation; is that correct?

12

A.

Yes, sir.

13

Q.

Does November the 2nd of 2022 sound about right for when

14

that took place?

15

A.

I can't be exact with the date.

16

Q.

You just don't know?

17

A.

I can't be exact the date I had the conversation with him.

18

Q.

Well, do you recall in that Agent Dye asking you, "Did you

19

make anywhere near $234,000.00 in the year 2019?"

20

answering it and telling him most likely?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

You didn't do that?

23

A.

I can't recall.

He called me sometime last year.

I spoke with him last

Then he was the one that called me again that I've

Now the conversation, the first one you had with him was a

24

MR. OSSICK:

Okay, thank you.

That's all.

25

THE COURT:

Any brief redirect?

Do you recall


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REDIRECT EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. STANLEY:

3

Q.

4

of how much money you did make in the 2019 period?

5

A.

Did I do what?

6

Q.

How much money did you make in 2019?

7

estimate?

8

A.

I can't recall.

9

Q.

Was it more than $200,000.00?

10

A.

No.

Briefly, Your Honor.

11

MS. STANLEY:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. STANLEY:

14

THE COURT:

15

THE WITNESS:

16

THE COURT:

17
18

Mr. Moneme, do you have any estimate

Do you have an

Nothing further.

Any objection to this witness being excused?
No, Your Honor.

Sir, you may step down and you're excused.
Okay.

Yes.

Thank you, ma'am.

All right, counsel, call your next

witness.
MS. STANLEY:

19

The Government calls Rita Addo-Minta.
RITA ADDO-MINTA,

20

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

21

follows:

22
23
24
25

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated and if you

will please state your full name and spell your last name.
THE WITNESS:
M-i-n-t-a.

Rita Addo-Minta, last name A-d-d-o hyphen


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DIRECT EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. STANLEY:

3

Q.

Good morning, Ms. Addo-Minta.

4

A.

Good morning.

5

Q.

Where do you live?

6

A.

125 Brush Hollow Court, Fayetteville, Georgia.

7

Q.

Where do you work?

8

A.

Little Angels Academy and New Beginnings Academy.

9

Q.

What are they?

10

A.

They are both in Riverdale, Georgia.

11

Q.

And what are they?

12

A.

I have childcare centers.

13

Q.

Do you know the defendant, Bernard Okojie?

14

A.

Yes, ma'am.

15

Q.

How did you meet him?

16

A.

I met him at my former business in the mall, Southlake

17

Mall.

18

Q.

What was that former business?

19

A.

It was a line of cosmetics.

20

Q.

So did you have a store at the mall?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am.

22

Q.

Did he stop by that store?

23

A.

Yes, ma'am.

24

Q.

Were you romantically involved with the defendant?

25

A.

Yes, ma'am.


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1

Q.

When was that?

2

A.

About two years ago.

3

Q.

2021?

4

A.

Around there.

5

Q.

What about in 2020?

6

A.

2020?

7

Q.

Are you involved with credit boosting?

8

A.

No, ma'am.

9

Q.

What is that, do you know what that is?

10

A.

Credit boosting?

11

Q.

Or credit repair.

12

A.

Credit repair?

13

Q.

Do you know what that is?

14

A.

I know credit repair but ...

15

Q.

You're not personally involved in doing credit repair?

16

A.

No, ma'am.

17

Q.

Do you know whether the defendant, Mr. Okojie, was

18

involved in credit repair?

19

A.

No, ma'am.

20

Q.

He was not or you don't know?

21

A.

I don't know.

22

repair.

23

Q.

Do you know a man named Brandon Richardson?

24

A.

Yes, ma'am.

25

Q.

How do you know him?

Yeah, it was around 2020, around there.

No.

I don't know if he was involved in credit


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A.

Brandon does credit repair.

2

Q.

And do you know what the purpose of credit repair is?

3

A.

It's to fix your credit.

4

Q.

Is that so that you can borrow more money?

5

A.

Yeah.

6

Q.

To increase your credit score?

7

A.

It's to increase your credit score.

8

Q.

Did you introduce Mr. Okojie to Brandon Richardson?

9

A.

Yes, ma'am.

10

Q.

How did you introduce them?

11

A.

Mr. Okojie took Brandon's card -- Mr. Okojie took -- tried

12

to call Brandon.

13

Q.

So you gave Mr. Okojie Brandon's card?

14

A.

Not physically give him the card but he took the card to

15

call him.

16

Q.

17

number?

18

A.

I don't understand that statement.

19

Q.

Let me back up.

20

connected Mr. Okojie and Brandon Richardson; is that accurate?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

How did you do that?

23

A.

He took his business card and he called him.

24

Q.

He took his business card from you?

25

A.

Yes.

So did you give Mr. Okojie Brandon Richardson's phone

So you testified that you introduced,


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Q.

And why did you give Mr. Okojie his business card?

2

A.

He was looking to -- someone to repair credit, so that's

3

how come I give it to him.

4

Q.

You knew that Mr. Richardson did credit repair?

5

A.

Yes, that's his business.

6

Q.

Did you ever talk about SBA loans with Brandon Richardson?

7

A.

Brandon Richardson?

8

Q.

Did you know that he was filling out SBA loan applications

9

for other people?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

You did not know that?

12

A.

No, ma'am.

13

Q.

So what was the substance, what was your conversation with

14

him about SBA loans?

15

A.

16

said yes and he said he was also.

17

Q.

That was it?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Where did that conversation take place?

20

A.

We spoke on the phone.

21

Q.

Do you remember when that was?

22

A.

I don't recall.

23

Q.

Was it 2020?

24

A.

I don't remember.

25

Q.

Was it after COVID-19 had started?

Yes.

He asked me if I was going to apply for my business, and I
That was it.

Does that sound accurate?


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1

A.

It was after COVID-19 started.

2

Q.

Did Mr. Richardson ever come to your house?

3

A.

Yes, he did.

4

Q.

And about how many times?

5

A.

One time for barbecue.

6

Q.

Is that when you gave him, is that when you had the

7

conversation about SBA loans?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

That was on the phone?

10

A.

That was on the phone.

11

Q.

Later, at a later time?

12

A.

I don't recall.

13

Q.

You said that you were going to apply for SBA loans for

14

your businesses?

15

A.

Yes, ma'am.

16

Q.

Did you apply for SBA loans for your businesses?

17

A.

Yes, ma'am.

18

Q.

How many loans did you apply for?

19

A.

One for each of my business.

20

Q.

So two?

21

A.

For my -- for my -- for all my businesses I had, I have.

22

Q.

Do you have more than two businesses?

23

A.

I have a cosmetic line also.

24

Q.

Okay.

25

A.

That's it.

Is there anything else?


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1

Q.

So you applied for three SBA loans?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And did you receive money from those loans?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

About how much?

6

A.

I don't recall.

7

Q.

More than a hundred thousand dollars?

8

A.

For my -- for my day care, yes.

9

Q.

Total, would it be more than $500,000.00?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

It was somewhere in between 100 thousand and 500 thousand

12

dollars total?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Did you ever talk about SBA loans with Bernard Okojie?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

Never?

17

A.

Never.

18

Q.

Did you know that he was preparing SBA loans?

19

A.

Never.

20

Q.

So neither Brandon or Mr. Okojie filled out an SBA loan

21

application for you?

22

A.

No, ma'am.

23

Q.

Did anyone else help you with your loan application?

24

A.

No, ma'am.

25

MS. STANLEY:

One moment, Your Honor.

Nothing further,


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Your Honor.

2

THE COURT:

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick.

3

MR. OSSICK:

None.

4

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

5

MS. STANLEY:

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

THE COURT:

No, Your Honor.

Ma'am, you may step down and be excused.
Thank you.

And ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is

9

just about noon.

So it's time for us to break for lunch.

So we

10

will be on our lunch break from 12:00 until 1:15, so be in your

11

jury room in time for us to start promptly at 1:15.

12

Remember as we go out into the larger world, don't talk

13

about the case, don't make up your mind, don't do any research,

14

don't consume any media about the case.

15

With that, let's rise for the jury.

16

(The jury exits the courtroom.)

17

THE COURT:

18

(Recess from 11:56 a.m. to a 1:24 p.m.)

19

THE COURT:

Counsel, we will be in recess until 1:15.

Before we bring the jury in, I want to go on

20

the record and explain that, as we started to get back in

21

session after the lunch break, there's been some sort of a power

22

problem here.

23

systems go?

24
25

And Ms. Sharp, what does it affect as far as your

THE CLERK:

Judge, I don't believe -- it is not back on.

I'm running on battery power.

This system is running through a


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hard power on the third floor, but I don't believe the

2

Government's table has power nor Defense nor the law clerks'

3

table or the jury box.

4

in here unless you wanted to test and see if we can display --

5

THE COURT:

So displaying evidence might be an issue

We have a courtroom on the third floor that

6

has a jury box in it.

It's going to be an effort for all of you

7

to take everything up there and I assume we will have the

8

ability to do all the electronics that we need up there.

9

THE CLERK:

We should.

10

THE COURT:

Including show the parties, they will be

11

able to show electronically their evidence?

12

THE CLERK:

Yes, Your Honor.

13

THE COURT:

We will have to do that, at least for this

14

session, from now until our afternoon break.

15

they have no idea what causes it.

16

before.

17

third floor.

18

They apparently

We've never had it happen

And we will have to just change courtrooms up to the

As far as the jury room, we can use the visiting judge's

19

chambers sort of like we did for our large trial.

20

do recess or ask them to step out, we will escort them there.

21

There's restrooms and space and so forth in that room, and

22

meanwhile our IT people, Jeff, are you able to detect?

23
24
25

MR. MORGAN:

And when we

I don't see any breakers so I'm going to

start at the source and work my way back.
THE COURT:

Let's bring in the jury.

Counsel, any


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objection to using the other courtroom?

2

MR. JOSEPHSON:

No, Your Honor.

3

MR. OSSICK:

No.

4

THE COURT:

Let's bring in the jury.

5

(The jury enters the courtroom.)

6

THE COURT:

Members of the jury, welcome back.

While we

7

were at lunch, we had a systems failure in the courtroom

8

electronically, and as a result there are certain whole panels

9

of electricity that are not working.

10

waiting while the IT people and the electrical experts try to

11

fix it, we do have a smaller courtroom available up on the third

12

floor that will accommodate everybody and allows what we need to

13

do while they try to fix whatever happened in this courtroom.

Rather than keep you

14

So in just a moment we're going to take a break just to

15

reposition ourselves and so the marshal will take you back into

16

your break room just very briefly.

17

Sharp, is it coming up?

All of our exhibits -- Ms.

18

THE CLERK:

Your Honor, I don't believe so.

19

THE COURT:

Hope springs eternal.

We're going to take

20

all of our exhibits and so forth up to the third floor and we

21

will proceed trying the case.

22

instructions and other instructions that I've given you will, of

23

course, apply.

24
25

All of the preliminary

The only thing that is changing is we're going to
continue with the trial in a smaller courtroom on the third


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1

floor.

2

The good news for you is you will have a larger jury

3

room because we will set you up in a larger facility up there if

4

we're still trying the case when we come to our next break, and

5

as I say, if we do get the electrical panels repaired down here,

6

we will repair back here because it is a larger courtroom.

7

So all of the previous admonitions still apply and,

8

marshal, when we break in just a moment, if you will get them

9

comfortable in the jury room and then we will take them back up

10

and you will get a tour of more of our courtrooms.

11

All right, let's rise for the jury.

12

(The jury exits the courtroom.)

13

(Recess from 1:30 p.m. to 2:05 p.m.)

14

THE COURT:

15

Counsel, for the United States, are you situated

16

properly to proceed?

17
18

All right, let's bring in the jury.

MR. JOSEPHSON:

We are, Your Honor.

We do have a

stipulation we would like to read into the record at this time.

19

THE COURT:

When the jury comes in, we will start there,

20

and counsel for the Defense, are you situated properly to

21

proceed?

22

MR. OSSICK:

Fine, Your Honor, thank you.

23

THE COURT:

All right, my law clerk is fine.

24
25

We had the

EMT's come out but she's going to stay in chambers with Lori.
(The jury enters the courtroom.)


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THE COURT:

All right, welcome back, members of the

2

jury.

3

everything we need and the parties are ready to proceed.

4

call your next witness.

5

MR. JOSEPHSON:

6

As I said, it's a little smaller setting but it has
So

Your Honor, at this time we would like

to read a stipulation between the parties into evidence.

7

THE COURT:

Proceed.

8

Ladies and gentlemen, at times the parties can agree on

9

certain facts.

The parties in this case, both the Defense and

10

the Government, have agreed that certain facts are true.

11

facts are stated in what's called a stipulation, which Mr.

12

Josephson is about to read aloud to you.

13

facts as set forth in the stipulation as proven in the case.

14

Proceed.

15

MR. JOSEPHSON:

16

Government Exhibit 20.

17

Those

You may accept those

Following stipulation is marked as
It reads as follows.

PPP Round 3 applications, applications submitted after

18

January the 11th, 2021 were received through the Summit

19

platform, a cloud-based platform, utilizing AWS gov cloud

20

servers located in Oregon.

21

initial screen of the loan applications and sent the loan

22

details to Etran servers, which are in Sterling, Virginia.

23

Etran conducts additional validation and, if appropriate, the

24

application was processed into an SBA loan, creating a loan

25

number.

The Summit platform performed an

The Etran server would transmit back to the Summit


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platform underwriting results for Summit to transmit the loan

2

number or other decision back to the lender.

3

received the SBA loan number, the lender processed the closing

4

loan documents, and PPP lender disbursed the funds to the

5

borrower.

6

SBA Etran system in Sterling, Virginia.

7

PPP processing to the lender through the FMS system to the

8

Treasury.

9

Virginia.

10

Once the lender

PPP lenders submitted disbursement details into the
Tran transmitted the

The primary server for FMS system was in Sterling,

That is the stipulation.

It is signed by myself,

11

Jennifer Stanley, my cocounsel in the case, as well the

12

defendant and his attorney.

13

THE COURT:

14

stipulation accurately read?

15

MR. OSSICK:

Yes.

16

THE COURT:

With that, call your next witness.

17

MR. JOSEPHSON:

18

All right, and Mr. Ossick, was that

The Government calls Maria Pagan, staff

operation specialist for the FBI.

19

MARIA PAGAN,

20

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

21

follows:

22

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

And if you

23

will please state your full name, spell your last, state your

24

occupation and your business address.

25

THE WITNESS:

Maria Pagan, last name, P-a-g-a-n.

I am a


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tactical specialist with the FBI.

2

DIRECT EXAMINATION

3

BY MR. JOSEPHSON:

4

Q.

5

responsibilities as a staff operations specialist with the FBI?

6

A.

7

of investigations.

8

Q.

Have you conducted a toll analysis in this case?

9

A.

Yes, I have.

10

Q.

What is a toll analysis, generally speaking?

11

A.

It's basically summation of phone records, contacts,

12

between different phones.

13

Q.

14

defendant's phone and an individual named Brandon Richardson?

15

A.

I did, yes.

16

Q.

And what contacts did you see?

17

A.

I saw two different contacts with the toll period that we

18

obtained.

19

Q.

And what, when did those contacts take place?

20

A.

Both contacts occurred in the same day and both were on

21

May 6th of 2021.

Good afternoon, Ms. Pagan.

What are some of your job

I conduct analysis, research, on a daily basis in support

Were you able to analyze the contacts between the

22

MR. JOSEPHSON:

Okay, no further questions, Your Honor.

23

THE COURT:

Any cross-examination, Mr. Ossick?

24

MR. OSSICK:

No.

25

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?


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MR. JOSEPHSON:

2

THE COURT:

3

Ma'am, you may step down and you're excused.

Call your next witness.

4
5

No, Your Honor.

MS. STANLEY:

Government calls SBA investigative analyst

Dedra Williams.

6

DEDRA WILLIAMS,

7

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

8

follows:

9

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated and if you

10

will please state your full name, spell your last, state your

11

occupation and your business address.

12

THE WITNESS:

My name is Dedra Williams,

13

W-i-l-l-i-a-m-s.

14

Office of Inspector General.

15

address.

16

I am with the US Small Business Administration
I do not know the business

DIRECT EXAMINATION

17

BY MS. STANLEY:

18

Q.

Ms. Williams, how long have you worked at the SBA OIG?

19

A.

It will be approximately three years in July of this year.

20

Q.

What are your responsibilities as an investigative analyst

21

for the SBA?

22

A.

23

can vary depending on where an agent is in his or her case.

24

could be anything from researching information, preliminary

25

information on the background of subjects.

As an analyst, I assist the agents.

What that looks like

It could also be

It


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something like analyzing bank statements that are tied to a

2

case.

3

Q.

4

between different SBA loans?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

In December of 2021, were you asked to identify EIDL and

7

PPP loan applications linked to Bernard Okojie?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

About how many applications did you identify that were

10

linked to Mr. Okojie?

11

A.

About 42.

12

Q.

How did you identify those as being linked to him?

13

A.

There was some preliminary information provided by Agent

14

Justin Lott to include the social security for Mr. Okojie, and

15

that was bumped against the EIDL and PPP data that we have.

16

addition, there were some related applications that were

17

identified.

18

Q.

19

were related or connected among those applications?

20

A.

21

meaning that application was connected to his name as a contact.

22

There could have been also other applications that matched

23

either by EIN.

24

search by the address, the business address, mobile phone

25

number, e-mail addresses and bank accounts.

Is one of your responsibilities identifying connections

In

And when you say they were related, what kinds of things

So, for example, if there was an Okojie application,

You may search by the EIN number.

You could


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Q.

Were some of these application linked by IP address?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And would that be a IP address associated with the

4

application in some form or fashion?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

You mentioned bumping Mr. Okojie's information against the

7

PPP loan database as well; is that correct?

8

A.

Yes, that's correct.

9

Q.

Did you check to see if any of those EIDLs that you just

10

talked about were connected to any PPP loan applications?

11

A.

12

in the 42 that were tied to EIDL were bumped against the PPP

13

files, and that identified an additional 16 PPP loans.

14

Q.

15

of those 58 applications?

16

A.

About 1.5 million.

17

Q.

In March of this year, were you asked to identify EIDL

18

loan applications linked to Brandon Richardson?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

Was there an EIDL loan in the name of Credit Achieved, LLC

21

associated with Mr. Richardson?

22

A.

I believe so, yes.

23

Q.

Approximately how many EIDL applications did you identify

24

that were linked to Mr. Richardson?

25

A.

Yes.

So the social security numbers that were identified

Do you know about how much money was disbursed as a result

So there was one application that bore his name.

The IP


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address that was tied to that application was then bumped

2

against the EIDL database to identify any additional

3

applications, and there were hundreds that were tied to that IP

4

address.

5

Q.

6

those applications were submitted from that IP address?

7

A.

I'm not sure I can answer that question.

8

Q.

Might there be numerous IP addresses associated with a

9

single loan file?

10

A.

There could be, yes.

11

Q.

But you can say that the one IP address linked to Mr.

12

Richardson's loan file was in some way associated with hundreds

13

of other EIDL loan applications?

14

A.

Is that IP address -- do you know whether that means that

I'm not sure.

Yes.

15

MS. STANLEY:

Nothing else, Your Honor.

16

MR. OSSICK:

Nothing.

17

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

18

MS. STANLEY:

19

MR. JOSEPHSON:

20

No, Your Honor.
The Government calls forensic accountant

Kim Johnson with the FBI.

21

KIMBERLY JOHNSON,

22

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

23

follows:

24
25

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

If you will

please state your full name, spell your last, state your


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occupation and your business address.

2

THE WITNESS:

Kimberly Johnson, J-o-h-n-s-o-n.

I'm a

3

forensic accountant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation,

4

2003 Chatham Center Drive, Savannah.

5

DIRECT EXAMINATION

6

BY MR. JOSEPHSON:

7

Q.

Good afternoon, Ms. Johnson.

8

A.

Good afternoon.

9

Q.

Could you tell the jury a little bit about some of your

10

job responsibilities as a forensic accountant?

11

A.

12

financial transactions.

13

Q.

14

case?

15

A.

I did.

16

Q.

How long have you been a forensic accountant?

17

A.

25 years as a forensic accountant, and before that, I was

18

an internal auditor for the IRS.

19

Q.

20

order to become a forensic accountant?

21

A.

22

CIA.

23

Q.

24

identification.

25

that exhibit pulling up?

I basically review financial records mainly and follow

Did you conduct a financial analysis in this particular

Have you received various trainings and certifications in

Yes.

I'm a certified fraud examiner.

I am also a CPA and

Can we display 7A just for the witness, Ms. Roper, for
I meant 17A.

If I said 7, I misspoke.

17A, is


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THE CLERK:

I think it's just for the witness, can you

2

see it, Mr. Josephson?

3

MR. JOSEPHSON:

I see 17A.

4

Q.

(By Mr. Josephson)

Ms. Johnson, do you recognize 17A?

5

A.

I do.

6

Q.

What is it?

7

A.

It is a list of bank accounts that I reviewed for this

8

case.

9

Q.

10

the holder, the name on the account, the taxpayer identification

11

number, the signer, the bank and the date range of the financial

12

record?

13

A.

Yes, it does.

14

Q.

Who did those bank accounts belong to?

15

the holder on these accounts?

16

A.

17

the control of Mr. Okojie.

18

Q.

19

Ms. Johnson, do you recognize 17B?

20

A.

I do.

21

Q.

What is 17B?

22

A.

It is a list of deposits into Mr. Okojie's accounts from

23

various individuals.

24

Q.

25

the account to which the money was deposited, check numbers,

Does it summarize the type of bank account, the number,

Who is the name of

The holders are businesses and then Mr. Okojie all under

Can we display 17B for the witness for identification.

Does this chart encapsulate the date of specific deposits,


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names of the person making the deposit as well the memo line and

2

comments on the check?

3

A.

Yes, it does.

4

Q.

Have you conducted an analysis of the financial accounts

5

that were listed in 17A and 17B?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

Do these records involve multiple bank accounts?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Multiple people?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Do they capture multiple months of financial activity?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Are they generally high in volume?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Have you created summary charts that would condense that

16

information in a way that would relieve the jury of having to go

17

through boxes and boxes of financial records?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Do those charts -- Your Honor, at this time I would like

20

to enter into evidence Government Exhibit 17A through 17D.

21

and B have been shown to the witness.

22

the information on those two.

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. JOSEPHSON:

25

THE COURT:

C and D are summaries of

So you're saying 17, B, C and D?
That's correct.

Any objection?

17A


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MR. OSSICK:

No.

2

THE COURT:

Admitted without objection.

3

Q.

4

Roper.

5

(By Mr. Josephson)

Can we publish 17A for the jury, Ms.

Ms. Johnson, what does 17A show?

6

A.

It's a listing of all the accounts that I reviewed for

7

this investigation for Mr. Okojie.

8

Q.

What does that column "Holder" mean?

9

A.

That is the name that's listed on account based on the

10

signature cards.

11

Q.

Can you read out the names of the accounts for the jury?

12

THE COURT:

Let me pause you right there.

I want to

13

make sure there's only two monitors that work at the box, but

14

there is the large screen that also shows it.

15

if you are on the jury and can't see the exhibits that are being

16

displayed.

17

can see them.

18

Q.

19

entire exhibit.

20

again.

21

Is anybody not able to see them?

Raise your hand

Okay, everybody

Please proceed.

(By Mr. Josephson)

Ms. Roper, can we zoom back to the

Now let's zoom in on the "Holder" column

Ms. Johnson, could you read out the names of the entities

22

or individuals on the accounts?

23

A.

24

Okojie and Kojie9, LLC.

25

Q.

B&K Automobile Sales, Inc., B&K Freight, LLC, Bernard

Can we zoom out now on 17A.

There's a column here that


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says "Signers."

2

A.

3

the signatures actually on the signature card for the bank.

4

Q.

5

to withdraw money from the account?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

Who is listed as the signer on every single account in

8

this chart?

9

A.

Bernard Okojie.

10

Q.

Please publish 17B.

11

A.

It is a listing of deposits that went into Mr. Okojie's

12

accounts from various individuals.

13

Q.

What does the column "Source and Description" mean?

14

A.

The source is who the deposit came from and the

15

description is what was probably on the bank statement that came

16

in with the records.

17

Q.

18

"Source and Description" column?

19

A.

20

Katina Banks, Lenora Johnson, Angela Lovelady, Ginell Adams

21

Judson, Charlie Bey and Wanda Anderson.

22

Q.

23

What does this column represent?

That is all individuals that are signers on the account so

Is the signer generally the person who has the authority

Ms. Johnson, what does 17B show?

Can you read just the names that are listed there in the

Princewill Moneme, Ardell Chatman, Frentres Winding,

Will you zoom back out on 17B.
The column "Deposit," does that list the amount of the

24

deposit?

25

A.

Yes, that's the amount that was deposited into the


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account.

2

Q.

Are the amounts deposited all above $10,000.00?

3

A.

Yes, they are.

4

Q.

In addition to the deposits made by the people on Chart

5

17B, did you analyze the deposit of money that the defendant

6

received from the SBA?

7

A.

I did.

8

Q.

Please publish 17C.

9

A.

It lists the money received directly by Mr. Okojie or his

10

entities.

11

Q.

12

the SBA as reflected on this chart?

13

A.

$202,033.00.

14

Q.

Did you analyze the withdrawal of money listed on 17B and

15

17C?

Let me ask the question a little differently.

16

analyze the withdrawal of funds that made their way into Mr.

17

Okojie's bank accounts?

18

A.

That left his account?

19

Q.

Yes.

20

analysis?

21

A.

I did.

22

Q.

Will you publish 17D.

23

17D show?

24

A.

25

Okojie, the money received from the individuals in the prior

What does 17C show?

What is the total amount of money that was deposited from

Did you

Did you analyze withdrawals as part of your

I did.
All right, Ms. Johnson, what does

It's basically consolidating SBA money received by Mr.


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schedule, and then the cash withdrawals.

2

Q.

3

just discussed?

4

A.

It does.

5

Q.

Okay, did you notice any pattern with respect to

6

withdrawals in your chart?

7

A.

8

receiving money either from individuals or from the SBA.

9

Q.

10

withdrawals either on the same day or near the same day in

11

amounts that would have exceeded $10,000.00?

12

A.

Yes, there were some occurrences of that.

13

Q.

Are you familiar with any banking regulations or

14

requirements regarding withdrawals that exceed $10,000.00?

15

A.

16

$10,000.00 a report must be filed.

17

Q.

18

$10,000.00, would that be reported to the federal government?

19

A.

20

feels like that's happening, they would also have to file a

21

report.

22

Q.

If they catch it?

23

A.

If they realize what's going on, yes.

24

Q.

If they didn't realize what was going on, would that avoid

25

the reporting requirement?

Okay, does this chart essentially combine the charts we

Normally, there was a high amount of withdrawals after

Were there any instances where the defendant made two

Yes.

If you have any cash transaction at a bank over

If a transaction is structured in a way to be below

Yes.

If a teller or a bank person picks up on that or

Could it be --


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A.

2

it may not be reported if somebody doesn't catch it.

3

Q.

4

last page for this chart.

5

that's listed in the withdrawal section in this chart?

6

A.

$178,116.12.

7

Q.

Was this the total amount of money -- what does this

8

figure reflects?

9

A.

10

are those that appear to be questionable as to that $10,000.00

11

amount.

12

account.

13

Q.

14

$10,000.00 threshold amount?

15

A.

16

$10,000.00.

17

Q.

I want to walk through a few examples --

18

A.

Okay.

19

Q.

-- for the jury.

20

Actually let's go to Page 2, August 24th, 2020.

21

sorry, August 24th.

22

It avoids the reporting.

It should still be reported but

All right, can we move to the bottom of the chart, the
What is the total amount of money

It reflects the withdrawals that are listed here, which

It does not cover all cash withdrawals out of the

Okay.

These are just the ones that involved the

On their face appear to be trying to elude that

Let's move back to Page 1 of the chart.
Page 3, I'm

All right, Ms. Johnson, what happened on August the 24th,

23

2020?

24

A.

25

Anderson for $18,210.00 into B&K account ending in 4728 and

The first thing that happened is a deposit from Wanda


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then, I'm sorry --

2

Q.

Keep going.

3

A.

You see withdrawals on 8/24 for $750.00 and $9,000.00, but

4

that's from a different account, but on 8/25, you see the same

5

thing, $750.00 cash withdrawal and a $9,000.00 cash withdrawal

6

from the same account that Ms. Anderson's funds were deposited

7

into.

8

Q.

9

the $10,000.00 reporting requirement?

10

A.

$250.00 short of the reporting requirement.

11

Q.

I want ask you now some questions about July the 31st,

12

2020.

13

on July 31st, 2020?

14

A.

15

18,495.00 into B&K Freight 4728 and a deposit made into Kojie9

16

from Ms. Winding for $15,510.00, and then you start to see

17

withdrawals out of the B&K Freight account, one for $6,000.00

18

and one for $2200.00 on the 31st, the same as the deposit, and

19

then on the 3rd, you see another $9500.00 and $750.00 withdrawn

20

on the 3rd of August.

21

Q.

Was the 3rd of August a Monday?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

So that was the next banking day?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

How about the next two days on August the 4th and 5th?

Is that amount, $9,000.00 and 750.00, is that just under

If we could move to July the 31st, 2020.

What happened

There were two deposits made, one from Katina Banks for

The 31st was a Friday and the 3rd is on Monday.


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Did that withdrawal pattern continue?

2

A.

3

see $750.00 cash, and then on the 7th, it's $7,000.00 and

4

$3,000.00 both on the 7th.

5

Q.

6

example, $9500.00 and $750.00 that were separated out in terms

7

of withdrawing the money?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

And did that repeat itself over and over and over?

10

A.

It did.

11

Q.

If we could move to the last page again, Ms. Roper.

12

Yes.

On the 4th, you see $9500.00 and then the 5th you

So generally speaking, did you observe two amounts, for

The total amount of money that exhibited this pattern was

13

what?

The withdrawal, the amount withdrawn in that type of

14

pattern was what?

15

A.

$178,116.12.

16

Q.

The jury has heard a fair amount of evidence about the

17

defendant's finances in this case.

18

in this case see any evidence that four million dollars in gross

19

revenues made their way into the defendant's account or the

20

people who deposited checks into the defendant's accounts?

21

A.

22

accounts I reviewed was less than a million dollars.

I did not.

Did you

I think the total activity I reviewed and the

23

MR. JOSEPHSON:

24

THE COURT:

25

I want to ask you:

No further questions, Your Honor.

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick.
CROSS-EXAMINATION


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BY MR. OSSICK:

2

Q.

3

withdrawals; is that correct?

4

A.

Withdrawals and deposits.

5

Q.

So the currency, that's on the withdrawal side; right?

6

other words, that's what you're withdrawing, cash?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

So the banking records reflect the source of the funds;

9

right?

10

A.

11

that what you mean?

12

Q.

Right.

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

There's a check?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

The record shows you who it's from?

17

A.

That's correct.

18

Q.

Shows you how much?

19

A.

That's correct.

20

Q.

So this isn't anything about explaining where money came

21

from, is it?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

This is strictly there are withdrawals that are below a

24

reporting limit?

25

A.

Just a couple of questions.

So you've analyzed

In

Meaning the deposits coming in from the individuals; is

The source of the funds into the account.

It's very clear where the money came from.

Correct.


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Q.

But if you add them together, they might exceed it?

2

A.

That's correct.

3

Q.

But you can tell where every dollar came from that is

4

eventually withdrawn as currency?

5

A.

That is correct.

6

MR. OSSICK:

Thank you.

7

THE COURT:

Any redirect?

8

MR. JOSEPHSON:

9

THE COURT:

10

MR. JOSEPHSON:

11

THE COURT:

12

No, Your Honor.

Any objection to this witness being excused?
No, Your Honor.

Ma'am, you may step down, and you're

excused.

13

Ms. Stanley, your next witness.

14

MS. STANLEY:

15

The Government calls Customs and Border

Patrol Officer Ronnie Matheson.

16

RONNIE MATHESON,

17

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

18

follows:

19

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

And if you

20

will please state your full name, spell your last, state your

21

occupation and your business address.

22

THE WITNESS:

My name is Ronnie Lloyd Matheson.

Last

23

name is spelled M-a-t-h-e-s-o-n.

I am a first-line supervisor

24

for Homeland Security, which is Customs and Border Protection

25

out of the port of Atlanta.


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DIRECT EXAMINATION

2

BY MS. STANLEY:

3

Q.

4

worked with Customs and Border Patrol?

5

A.

21 years.

6

Q.

What are some of your responsibilities as a CBP officer?

7

A.

Most of my career has been as an enforcement supervisor or

8

ATCF team and port team.

9

Q.

What does that entail on a day-to-day basis?

10

A.

Basically we are in a port team where we have a variety of

11

jobs that we do.

12

flights.

13

outbound flights as far as outbound currency.

14

the cargo exams so we have a variety of jobs we do.

15

Q.

16

require people to declare large amounts of cash when they

17

travel?

18

A.

Yes, ma'am.

19

Q.

What are the requirements for declaring cash or currency

20

when you travel international?

21

A.

22

over $10,000.00 you must declare.

23

Q.

Is there a form that you have to fill out to do that?

24

A.

Actually, back in the old customs days, it actually was

25

the declaration you got on the plane and the first question

Good afternoon, Officer Matheson.

How long have you

We do inbound flights where we target the

We examine the flights with x-ray machines.

We work

We do NCIC's with

Is one of your responsibilities enforcing the laws that

International, if you travel inbound or outbound, anything


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asked is:

Are you carrying more than $10,000.00?

If you are a

2

global entry person, the first question you answer is:

3

carrying more than $10,000.00?

4

to use.

5

Q.

Is there something electronic that you use now?

6

A.

We -- yes, everything -- everything has gone to, you know,

7

the computer system, but when we work outbound flights, when we

8

interact with people, we actually give them a pamphlet to report

9

the reporting requirements, and we explain to them why we're

10

stopping them and interviewing them at that time.

11

Q.

12

engage in is speaking with people on outbound flights?

13

A.

Yes, ma'am, it's one of our jobs that we do.

14

Q.

Do you remember seizing approximately $40,000.00 in cash

15

from an individual by the name of Bernard Okojie?

16

A.

Yes, ma'am.

17

Q.

Was that on or about December 28th of 2020?

18

A.

Yes, ma'am.

19

Q.

How did CBP come into contact with Mr. Okojie?

20

A.

We -- that day we selected to work a couple of outbound

21

flights, one of them being Delta 54, so I sent my officers up

22

there to work the flight.

23

Q.

24

that flight number, is that flight number assigned to a

25

particular route?

Are you

So there are forms that we used

Everything is automated how.

Is that a routine process that you and other CBP officers

And when you say Delta 54, is that a particular -- does


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1

A.

Yes, ma'am, it's an outbound Lagos flight.

2

Q.

So from Atlanta to Nigeria?

3

A.

Yes, ma'am.

4

Q.

So on that day, what were your officers doing as far as

5

interacting with the passengers who were boarding that flight?

6

A.

7

operation, doing outboard currency, and basically what they do

8

is they go up the jetway, and as people come through, they stop

9

and interact with every person coming through and they ask them,

10

you know, the reason for the travel and if they are carrying

11

more than $10,000.00.

12

Q.

13

$10,000.00 in cash?

14

A.

Yes, he did.

15

Q.

Did the CBP officers start the process of having him fill

16

out a form to declare that money?

17

A.

18

requirements as far as the rules and regulations, and they have,

19

if they give you that form, they have you read the form and ask

20

you how much cash you're carrying and then they have the person

21

fill out the back of it and initial it.

22

Q.

And so did Mr. Okojie fill out that form?

23

A.

Yes, ma'am.

24

Q.

Did the officers physically start counting the money that

25

he had with him?

They were up there conducting an outbound enforcement

And did Mr. Okojie say that he was carrying more than

He declared, yes.

They, they give him the 503 form, which is the reporting


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1

A.

Yes, ma'am.

2

Q.

Was there a discrepancy between how much he said he had

3

with him and how much the officers were counting?

4

A.

Yes, ma'am.

5

Q.

Did you become involved at this point?

6

A.

I become involved after I was notified the officers had

7

stopped the subject.

8

up to almost 39,000.00.

9

when we stop people and have that happen, I always make my

10

officers call out PE officers, who is our financial crimes

11

police, and run a check on the person to see if they have got

12

previous FinCEN's on file, which is where they had filed

13

previously.

14

inspection and bring him down to the F concourse, take his bags

15

off the plane, bring all his luggage and go ahead and do a

16

thorough exam at that point.

17

Q.

18

You said he had previously had a FinCEN?

19

A.

Yes, ma'am.

20

Q.

Can you explain to the jury what that means?

21

A.

Basically what happens with a previous FinCEN means, if

22

you travel and you have more than $10,000.00 that you know the

23

reporting requirements; you saw the form yourself and turned it

24

in or you declare the money and fill the form out.

25

Q.

He first declared 34,000.00, and they were
I asked them had they -- had they --

He had, so I told them to go ahead and stop the

I want to ask you to elaborate on something you mentioned.

At some point, was Mr. Okojie asked whether he was


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familiar with the laws requiring a person to declare cash when

2

traveling internationally?

3

A.

4

FinCEN on file.

5

Q.

6

reporting requirements?

7

A.

It's common knowledge, yes, ma'am.

8

Q.

Was Mr. Okojie transported to the F concourse with his

9

luggage at this point?

10

A.

11

inspection area.

12

Q.

And what happened there?

13

A.

I had my officers go ahead and do a thorough exam of his

14

checked luggage, go ahead -- go ahead and complete all the money

15

count there, and once we figured how much money we had, which I

16

was there present when they did the money count, I go ahead and

17

get notification to seize the money because he failed to

18

declare.

19

Q.

And how much money in total was seized?

20

A.

39/7, $39,700.00.

21

Q.

What did CBP do with the seized money at that point?

22

A.

Once the money was seized, we automatically take it to our

23

seized property people, which they in turn take possession of it

24

and end up depositing it.

25

I can't answer that for myself, but he did have a previous

So did that indicate to you that he was aware of the

He was brought to the F concourse to our baggage

MS. STANLEY:

Nothing further.


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1

THE COURT:

2

Mr. Ossick, cross-examination.
CROSS-EXAMINATION

3

BY MR. OSSICK:

4

Q.

5

first part you told about where he was first stopped and asked

6

to be -- asked did he have money, you were there for that?

7

A.

No, sir.

8

Q.

You're telling us what somebody told you?

9

A.

That is what the officer reported to me.

10

Q.

And they told you that when they asked him are you

11

carrying money in excess of $10,000.00, is that what they told

12

you they asked him?

13

A.

That's what they always ask them, sir.

14

Q.

And what did he tell them?

15

A.

He said he had 34,000.00.

16

Q.

So he told them about it?

17

A.

Uh-huh.

18

Q.

Then you seized it anyway, even though he declared it

19

then?

20

A.

21

$39,700.00, which he failed to declare the total amount.

22

Q.

23

whole 39?

24

A.

25

Just a couple of questions.

No, sir.

I guess I'm not clear.

That

We seized it after we found out he had

So rather than the amount that he left out, you take the

Yes, sir.
MR. OSSICK:

Okay, thank you.


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THE COURT:

Any brief redirect?

2

MS. STANLEY:

3

Briefly, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION

4

BY MS. STANLEY:

5

Q.

6

any of the cash he was carrying with him; is that correct?

7

A.

Yes, ma'am, he did not.

8

Q.

And was part of your decision to seize this money based on

9

the fact that he had a previous violation of the declaration

10

requirement?

11

A.

12

FinCEN on file.

13

wasn't at the time that we -- he declared 34 he actually had

14

39/7 on him.

Officer Matheson, Mr. Okojie had not initially declared

That was part of it because he would have had a previous
He knew the reporting requirements and it

That's why we decided to seize his money.

15

MS. STANLEY:

That's all I have, Your Honor.

16

THE COURT:

17

MS. STANLEY:

18

THE COURT:

19

Mr. Josephson, call your next witness.

20

MS. STANLEY:

Any objection to this witness being excused?
No, Your Honor.

You may step down.

You're excused.

The Government calls Kassandra Haley-

21

Fields, who is an FN&P officer with the Customs and Border

22

Patrol.

23

KASSANDRA HALEY-FIELDS,

24

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

25

follows:


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THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

And if you

2

will please state your full name, spell your last, state your

3

occupation and your business address.

4

THE WITNESS:

Kassandra Shamine Haley-Fields, H-a-l-e-y

5

hyphen F-i-e-l-d-s, and my occupation is fines, penalties and

6

forfeitures officer.

7

DIRECT EXAMINATION

8

BY MS. STANLEY:

9

Q.

10

the Customs and Border Patrol?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

And are you assigned to a particular location?

13

A.

Yes, the Atlanta port office.

14

Q.

How long have you worked for CBP?

15

A.

Over 20 years.

16

Q.

What are your responsibilities as a fines, penalties and

17

forfeitures officer?

18

A.

19

adjudicate liquidated damages, penalties and seizure cases.

20

Q.

21

currency?

22

A.

Yes, ma'am.

23

Q.

Can you tell the jury what happens generally after cash is

24

seized by Customs and Border Patrol?

25

A.

Ms. Haley-Fields, is that the position that you hold with

As the fines, penalty and forfeiture officers, I

When you say seizure cases, does that mean seizures of

When currency is seized by US Customs and Border


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1

Protection, this currency is transported over and that's another

2

area that I manage, the security of the seized property until it

3

is adjudicated, and we send out a note, what we call a notice of

4

seizure, and that's notifying the claimant that we have seized

5

their property and therefore they will get a notification what

6

that amount is of the currency.

7

well as US currency, we will identify that, and we will also

8

give them an election of proceedings form and a seized asset

9

claim form, and the notice will also give them instructions on

10

how they can claim the return of their seized property.

11

If it is foreign currency as

The election proceedings form is where they can make a

12

choice for how they would like to proceed and the seized asset

13

claim form is what we use if they choose to go to court.

14

Q.

15

from Bernard Okojie to recover cash that had been seized from

16

him by CBP?

17

A.

Yes, ma'am, we did.

18

Q.

Was that about $39,700.00 in US dollars?

19

A.

Yes, ma'am.

20

Q.

Was Mr. Okojie sent an initial letter setting out his

21

options like the one that you just described?

22

A.

23

we have election of proceedings which determines, they have four

24

options or you can have the fourth one is where you have the

25

seized asset claim form if you want to go to court that you

Did you and your office oversee and process a petition

Yes.

The -- the letter is the notice of seizure and then


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1

would complete.

2

Q.

Did he respond to that letter?

3

A.

Yes, he did.

4

responded -- initially he responded that he wanted to do a

5

petition administratively, and then he also submitted another

6

form in regards to going to court, and what we do, if we get

7

where a person completes both forms, we will send back another

8

letter and what we call a dual response letter and let them know

9

that they responded in two ways and that for them to make a

10

choice on how they would like to proceed.

11

Q.

12

and show it to the witness only.

13

He responded that he would like to -- he

Ms. Roper, can you please pull up Government Exhibit 18

Can you see that, Ms. Haley-Fields?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

It's just showing me and the witness.

16

the first page that you're looking at on the screen?

17

A.

Yes, ma'am.

18

Q.

Ms. Roper, can you flip through the next few pages,

19

please, so the witness can review them.

20

Do you recognize

Thank you, Ms. Roper.

Ms. Haley-Fields, do you recognize these documents?

21

A.

Yes, ma'am, I do.

22

Q.

Can you briefly tell the jury what they are?

23

A.

What it is is that it's a submission of what we would call

24

a petition, and that's when I said they did the dual and we had

25

election of proceedings.

And on the election of proceedings,


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you have four choices:

One, a petition for it to be processed

2

administratively; two, you can submit an offer in compromise and

3

it would be processed administratively; three, you can outright

4

abandon the property and there would be no further action; and

5

four is where you would have the -- you would do a -- submit a

6

seized asset claim form, and that's where you have the choice to

7

go to court.

8

Q.

9

have his funds returned to him via administrative procedure?

10

A.

11

proceeding CAFRA form where he had requested the petition and

12

where he had requested the seized asset claim, and he responded

13

back to us with another one and said that he wanted to do the

14

election of proceedings petition.

Do these documents reflect that Mr. Okojie petitioned to

Yes.

15

This is where he had completed an election of

MS. STANLEY:

At this time we would move to admit

16

Government's Exhibit 18.

17

THE COURT:

Any objection?

18

MR. OSSICK:

No.

19

THE COURT:

Admitted without objection.

20

MS. STANLEY:

21

this to the jury.

22

Q.

23

please.

24
25

(By Ms. Stanley)

Would you please publish this?

Publish

Ms. Roper, would you go to Page 3,

Ms. Haley-Fields, this is the petition that Mr. Okojie
submitted to get his money back?


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1

A.

Yes, ma'am.

2

Q.

Do you know if that was in February of 2021?

3

the date of this?

4

A.

5

would have been February the 24th.

6

Q.

And briefly what did Mr. Okojie say in this petition?

7

A.

Briefly he was stating that the -- in that petition that

8

it was his money and that his source was a valid source of

9

income and from his employment.

10

Q.

11

were the source of these funds?

12

A.

13

healthcare, and another one from Angela Lovelady and they both

14

were made out to the company B&K Freight, LLC.

15

Q.

16

able to rotate that?

17

Do you know

It was February when he submitted it to our office.

It

Did he attach two checks to his petition that he claimed

Yes, two checks, one from a Lenora Johnson, home and

Ms. Roper, will you go to Page I believe it's 10.

Are you

Okay, is this the check from Lenora Johnson?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Can you read it?

20

for the jury the amount of this check?

21

A.

$15,375.00.

22

Q.

Can you go to Page 11?

23

I know it's upside down.

Can you read

Is this the other check that you mentioned, Ms.

24

Haley-Fields?

25

A.

Yes.


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1

Q.

Who is this one made out to?

2

A.

This is made out to B&K Freight, LLC as well.

3

Q.

Is this the one from Angela Lovelady?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

What's the amount of that check?

6

A.

$18,435.00.

7

Q.

Did your office make a decision to return this money to

8

Mr. Okojie?

9

A.

Yes, we did based on the information.

10

Q.

Minus a penalty?

11

A.

Yes.

12

penalty, and that is supported by our mitigation guidelines, and

13

in the mitigation guidelines, we have what we call a currency

14

and monetary -- currency and monetary instrument report

15

remission table, and that table has a range where we have a

16

standard amount of what our penalty amount would be, and for the

17

range, anything over the range of $25,001.00 to $40,000.00, we

18

have a standard amount of $2500.00 that we would deduct from the

19

seized amount.

20

Q.

21

Mr. Okojie?

22

A.

23

14th, 2022.

24

Q.

Was the refund amount then approximately $36,900.00?

25

A.

Yes.

What we have is that, what we call a monetary

Do you know approximately when this money was returned to

It was approved on -- the refund was approved on October


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MS. STANLEY:

Nothing further.

2

THE COURT:

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick?

3

MR. OSSICK:

No questions.

4

THE COURT:

Any objection to this witness being excused?

5

MS. STANLEY:

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

THE COURT:

9

MR. JOSEPHSON:

10

Protection Officer Brian Coder.

No, Your Honor.

You may step down and you're excused.
Thank you.

Any other witnesses?

11

The Government calls Customs and Border

OFFICER BRIAN CODER,

12

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

13

follows:

14

THE CLERK:

Thank you.

You may be seated.

And if you

15

will please state your full name, spell your last name, state

16

your occupation and your business address.

17

THE WITNESS:

Brian Patrick Coder, C-o-d-e-r.

I am an

18

officer with the US Customs and Border Protection and I didn't

19

catch what was the last thing.

20

THE CLERK:

21

THE WITNESS:

22

Your business address.
Atlanta Hartsfield airport.
DIRECT EXAMINATION

23

BY MR. JOSEPHSON:

24

Q.

25

job responsibilities as an officer with CBP?

Officer Coder, can you tell the jury what are some of your


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1

A.

Inspecting passengers and goods entering and exiting the

2

country, looking for immigration violations to commerce

3

violations, whether it's narcotics, fraud, all kind of different

4

things, very large umbrella.

5

Q.

Do you work at the Atlanta airport?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

Are you part of the TTRT team?

8

A.

I was at the time, yeah.

9

Q.

What is TTRT team?

10

A.

It was the tactical terrorism response team is what the

11

title stood for, and it was more of a -- an enhanced training

12

for interview techniques and search techniques that we would go

13

through.

14

Q.

As part of your duties, do you conduct border searches?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Do you conduct interviews at the airport?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Do you execute warrants on occasion?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

Did you interview the defendant, Bernard Okojie, at the

21

Atlanta airport on June the 19th of 2021?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Was he arriving in Atlanta or leaving Atlanta?

24

A.

He was arriving from Lagos, Nigeria.

25

Q.

Is that Flight DL55?


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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

When you interviewed Mr. Okojie, were you aware of any

3

other prior encounter with CBP?

4

A.

5

would query the systems, and I could see that he had a prior

6

money seizure going outbound, I think it was a year or so ahead

7

of time.

8

Q.

Do you recall the approximate amount of the money seizure?

9

A.

39,000.00 and change.

10

Q.

All right, during your interview with the defendant, did

11

he identify how he earned his income?

12

A.

13

of different scenarios that he proposed where he did crypto

14

currency trading and then he owns I think it was a logistics box

15

truck company and then he earned money helping people acquire

16

some loans and then some kind of credit boosting service that he

17

offered.

18

Q.

19

income?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Did he mention the helping individuals file SBA loan

22

applications?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

And did he suggest that that was a legitimate way he made

25

money?

Once I first got ahold or met him, I had a query where I

Yeah.

I asked him how he earned it and there was a couple

Was there a variety of explanations for how he earned his


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1

A.

Yeah.

2

Q.

During your interview, did you obtain any documents from

3

the defendant's pocket?

4

A.

5

or pocket litter which includes like credit cards, business

6

cards, copies of notebooks, different things like that, yes.

7

Q.

8

Exhibit 19 for identification if you could, Ms. Roper.

9

through Government 19 so the witness can become familiar with

10

that document.

11

Yeah.

During the interview, we did a copy of pocket trash

I'd like to display for the witness only Government
Flip

Officer Coder, are you familiar with Government Exhibit

12

19?

13

A.

As far as the copies of the notebook, yes.

14

Q.

What is it?

15

A.

It was just a ledger book that he had in his possession.

16

As far as what was in it, I couldn't tell you exactly because it

17

really didn't pertain to my current inspection but ...

18

Q.

19

defendant's pocket?

20

A.

Yeah, I think it was in a backpack.

21

Q.

Was it on his person or his personal belongings?

22

A.

It was on his personal belongings.

23

Q.

Did you upload this pdf to, this copy to a file in this

24

case?

25

A.

Is this a copy of the notebook that you pulled from the

Yes.

I can't ...


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1

Q.

Is the copy an accurate copy of what was reflected in the

2

notebook itself?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Was it altered in any way by you or anybody at CBP?

5

A.

No.

6
7

MR. JOSEPHSON:

Your Honor, at this time we would like

to move to admit Government Exhibit 19.

8

THE COURT:

Any objections?

9

MR. OSSICK:

No.

10

THE COURT:

Admitted without objection.

11

Q.

12

flip to Number 10 in the notebook.

13

10.

14

(By Mr. Josephson)

All right, Ms. Roper, if you could
There's a list at Number

Start on Page 1 and work forward.
Start, if you could, Officer Coder, read -- at the outset

15

I want to ask you, this was a notebook on the defendant's

16

person; correct?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

If you could start and read Number 10.

19

A.

Number 10, "Lord, protect me from police problem, court

20

problem.

21

Q.

Number 11, please.

22

A.

"Lord, give me victory on this matter with customs and DHS

23

and let all my money and phones be returned."

24

Q.

Number 14, please.

25

A.

I see it.

I will not be implicated for what I did not know."

It's right after 13?

It looks like a 12.

"Lord, make me a million


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1

in dollars in 2021."

2

Q.

Number 16, please.

3

A.

"Lord, help me in 2021 to set up a business that will

4

bring me an income every day."

5

Q.

Number 17.

6

A.

"Lord, help me to" -- is that -- "own a fast food chain,

7

open a fast food chain."

8

Q.

Next page, Ms. Roper, Number 18.

9

A.

"Lord, help me to open a gas company in Nigeria, connect

10

me to the" -- I can't make that out -- "oil and gas industry in

11

Nigeria."

12

Q.

19.

13

A.

"Lord, help my wife to start up a business she desire."

14

Q.

20.

15

A.

"Lord, help me to acquire more" something "properties in

16

America and Nigeria."

17

MR. JOSEPHSON:

18

THE COURT:

Cross-examination, Mr. Ossick?

19

MR. OSSICK:

No questions.

20

THE COURT:

Any objections to this witness being

21

I have no further questions, Your Honor.

excused?

22

MR. JOSEPHSON:

23

THE COURT:

24

THE WITNESS:

25

THE COURT:

No, Your Honor.

Then you may be excused.

Thank you.

Thank you.

On behalf of the prosecution, any additional


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witnesses?

2

MS. STANLEY:

3

THE COURT:

4

MS. STANLEY:

5

THE COURT:

6

No, Your Honor.

Do you rest your case?
We do.

If you will call out by number each exhibit

that you have had introduced and admitted in this case.

7

MS. STANLEY:

8

or just the numbers?

The exhibit number and the exhibit title

9

THE COURT:

Yes.

10

MS. STANLEY:

11

THE COURT:

12

the numbers so we make sure.

13

MS. STANLEY:

1A is the EIDL loan file ending in --

You don't need to say what they are, just

Okay.

Exhibit 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, 1F, 1G,

14

1H, 1I, 1J, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 2H, 2I, 2J, 3A, 3B, 3C,

15

3D, 3E, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4E, 4F, 4G, 4I, 5A, 5B, 5C, 5D, 5E, 5F, 6,

16

7, 8, 10, 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E, 11F, 11G, 11H, 12A, 12B, 12C,

17

12D, 12E, 12F, 12G, 12H, 12I, 12J, 12K, 12L, 13, 14, 15, 16A,

18

16B, 16C, 17A, 17B, 17C, 17D, 18, 19 and 20.

19
20

THE COURT:

All right, and with that, you rest your case

in chief?

21

MS. STANLEY:

22

THE COURT:

Yes, Your Honor, we do.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the

23

Government has completed its case in chief and it is time for

24

our mid-afternoon break, so we will break.

25

10 after 3:00, so we will be in recess until 3:25.

It is actually about
If you will


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take the jury to the large jury room here on the third floor.

2

I've received communications while we've been in session

3

that they have fixed my courtroom downstairs, all the power.

4

are probably going to stay here because I'm going to have them

5

make sure and so we will probably stay up here for the balance

6

of the afternoon.

7
8

Remember, don't talk about the case.
mind.

You can leave your amenities pack in your chair because
we will be coming back here this afternoon.

11

(The jury exits the courtroom.)

12

THE COURT:

13

Don't make up your

Let's rise for this jury.

9
10

We

Counsel, have a seat, just a few

housekeeping matters to go through with you.

14

Mr. Ossick, do you anticipate putting on any witnesses?

15

MR. OSSICK:

No.

16

THE COURT:

All right, when we do return from break, I

17

will have you, call on you to present anything and you can say

18

that on the record.

19

either.

20

anticipate needing for closings?

21

MR. JOSEPHSON:

And in that case we won't utilize rebuttal

As far as closings go, approximately how long do you

I anticipate about 20 minutes, maybe 25

22

minutes, and I would like if I could reserve some time for

23

rebuttal.

24
25

THE COURT:

And you do, of course, have opening and

closing arguments, and if you wanted to split that up, that's


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fine or one person can do both.

2

Mr. Ossick, approximately how long do you think?

3

MR. OSSICK:

No more than that, less probably.

4

THE COURT:

Well, I will, you know, just so long as each

5

side keeps it under 45 minutes, that's going to be -- we won't

6

stop you before then, but 45 minutes a side should be plenty.

7
8

Mr. Ossick, do you have any motions to make at this
point?

9
10

MR. OSSICK:

We would like to make a Rule 29 motion on

Counts 1 and 3 on sufficiency basis.

11

THE COURT:

What --

12

MR. OSSICK:

Those are the conspiracy counts, Your

14

THE COURT:

Yes.

15

MR. OSSICK:

While there's been a lot of evidence as to

13

Honor.

16

substantive violations, in terms of showing any evidence

17

sufficient to show an agreement with some other party or person,

18

I don't believe there's been sufficient evidence of that

19

whatsoever to show anybody else in common agreement knowingly

20

and joining for the same purpose, someone -- of course, I'm not

21

going to -- The Court knows -- just who unwittingly acts in

22

furtherance of or just acts in the same way but without joining

23

any agreement, that's the crux of it, with knowledge of the

24

unlawful objective of the agreement.

25

There's been a lot of people who have participated in


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various actions but none of which have said they were in

2

agreement with anything in an unlawful way and joined with that.

3

So I don't believe there's been any, especially as to

4

the money-laundering charges, there has been nothing to suggest

5

anyone's participation in what would be that substantive offense

6

and he's charged not with money laundering but with conspiracy

7

to commit money laundering, and the same is true -- and I

8

understand we're down to, in Count 1, only the wire fraud, and

9

while they may well could have done nine more substantive wire

10

fraud counts, perhaps very compellingly, from the various

11

individuals, they haven't had one that showed that there is

12

someone in agreement, and to the extent you look at the evidence

13

concerning the owned entities of him, it's sole, no showing that

14

any person other than him had complete control, and you can't be

15

a coconspirator with an entity that you solely own and control,

16

so I don't believe there has been sufficient evidence for the

17

jury to go as to Counts 1 and 3.

18
19

THE COURT:

On behalf of the United States, your

response.

20

MR. JOSEPHSON:

Yes, Your Honor.

That motion should be

21

denied.

There is overwhelming evidence of a crime as alleged in

22

all three counts.

23

commit wire fraud, there's a massive fraudulent scheme that has

24

been perpetrated in this case.

25

also involves the people who received kickbacks for getting the

With respect to Count 1, the conspiracy to

It involves the defendant.

It


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fraudulent loan.

2

As The Court is well aware, a conspiracy can be proven

3

through conduct.

4

require a formal agreement.

5

It can be proven in indirect ways.

It doesn't

You have a situation here where lots of people received

6

fraudulent loans.

7

were itself a percentage of the loan.

8

They paid inflated fees, extensive fees that

The checks were dropped off in various ways, anything

9

from a hotel in Chattanooga to off the highway at a gas station.

10

The defendant had no, no financial background at all in terms of

11

the ability to process loans or provide financial advice.

12

We've submitted significant statistical evidence,

13

significant financial record evidence, significant loan record

14

evidence.

15

the gross revenues for the defendant's loans as well as the

16

people who paid the defendant to assist them with the loans were

17

staggering, like astronomical numbers, four million in gross

18

revenues, 132 people that the evidence shows the overwhelming

19

number of whom didn't exist at all.

We've summarized that in charts.

We've shown that

20

We've shown the loan amounts also were fraudulent.

21

approved amounts, we have over 1.4 million dollars that the

22

United States Government paid out as part of the fraudulent

23

scheme.

24
25

The

The kickbacks paid, $165,000.00 for nine applications.
There's evidence in the record that those applications were


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filled in fraudulently, which, if supported, would take no more

2

than five minutes or so.

3

THE COURT:

Just to sort of focus to the precise point

4

Mr. Ossick is arguing is that even if one were to concede that

5

there's massive evidence of fraud, what is the evidence of the

6

conspiracy, the agreement with another human?

7

MR. JOSEPHSON:

Yes, Your Honor.

There is evidence of

8

an agreement.

9

themselves that the individuals are writing are made out to fake

10

businesses for loan preparation.

11

that is being put on the check at the direction of the

12

defendant.

13

You have some people that deny certain knowledge, looking the

14

other way.

15

instruction, but they all admitted to writing checks that were

16

itself the proceeds of a fraudulent loan, and they did so

17

knowing that the check they wrote was not to him, not to a

18

financial services company, not to a brokerage.

19

they were writing it to an entity for a purpose that made no

20

sense.

21

I would point out first that the checks

You have B&K Freight, Kojie9

You have every single person going along with that.

We are going to request a deliberate ignorance

They knew that

So we do think there is an agreement based on the checks

22

and the kickbacks.

I also think that that plays both for Count

23

1 and Count 3.

24

concealment, the conspiracy to conceal, that is an act of

25

concealment to write out checks in payment for the fraudulent

I know counsel has moved on both counts.

The


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loan in the name of a shell company that has nothing to do with

2

loan preparation.

3

course, other acts that the defendant engaged in to further

4

conceal down the chain.

5

THE COURT:

That is an act in furtherance.

There are, of

You're saying because there's evidence that

6

checks were made out that said like "for truck leasing" and to

7

B&K Transport and things of that nature?

8

MR. JOSEPHSON:

That's correct, and then that money is

9

structured out by the defendant and stuffed in a suitcase and

10

taken to, an attempt to take to Nigeria, so we do ask that The

11

Court deny the motion.

12

I would also point out there's multiple-object

13

conspiracy alleged in Count 3.

14

The proceeds of the money laundering are above $10,000.00.

15

Every single check that each person wrote is over $10,000.00,

16

and it is the direct proceeds of the fraud, so that is an object

17

of the conspiracy in addition to the concealment, so we would

18

ask that The Court deny for that basis, too.

19

THE COURT:

There is a 1957 part to it, too.

All right, I am not going to grant that

20

motion at this point, so we will send the case on to the jury

21

for the jury's consideration.

22

Let me take up with you, I did notice that apparently

23

the parties have agreed on some cleaning up of the indictment

24

and I do want to confirm on the record that both sides agree to

25

that; is that correct, Mr. Josephson?


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MR. JOSEPHSON:

That's correct, Your Honor.

We have

2

agreed to drop the bank fraud object of the conspiracy alleged

3

in Count 1.

4

conspiracy in Count 3 regarding the transaction-reporting

5

requirement.

6

We've also agreed to drop the object of the

We are moving forward on other two objects of the

7

conspiracy, namely proceeds exceeding $10,000.00 and

8

concealment.

9

and 3, and we have conferred with counsel, and we are in

10

agreement that that makes sense to present a cleaned-up

11

indictment for the jury's roadmap.

12
13
14

We've dropped two objects of the conspiracy in 1

THE COURT:

And I assume you would not object to

dropping those parts from the indictment?
MR. OSSICK:

No.

We're in agreement, and it did not

15

change any of the other language, so it just took out an

16

underlying offense, basically.

17

THE COURT:

And so it will be that version that counsel

18

has during trial agreed to that we will send back to the jury

19

during deliberations because I do let them have a copy of the

20

indictment, so we will utilize the one that both have agreed to.

21

Does that also clear up some of the few disagreements regarding

22

the charge?

23
24
25

MR. OSSICK:

Can I ask, are we going to have a charge

conference?
THE COURT:

Well, we are, but I want to --


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1
2

MR. OSSICK:

It cleared up -- that's what I was

trying --

3

THE COURT:

It cleared up one of yours; right?

4

MR. OSSICK:

Yes, it cleared up a lot of -- because the

5

bank fraud is not in it now.

6

THE COURT:

Right.

7

MR. OSSICK:

So it does change.

8

THE COURT:

Because you had asked for a substantive bank

9

fraud to be at least added into the conspiracy part.

10
11

MR. OSSICK:

So that there would be an underlying

THE COURT:

So they would know what bank fraud was, but

offense.

12
13

there is no need for that because they are dropping that from

14

Count 1.

15
16

MR. OSSICK:

Correct, but we want to be able to confer

about the charge but nothing to do with banking.

17

THE COURT:

We have to do that, according to the rules.

18

So the verdict form, I saw there was a cleaned-up

19

submission with regard to the verdict form.

Is that agreed to

20

now or is that something we still have to take up?

21

MR. OSSICK:

I don't believe I've seen --

22

MS. STANLEY:

We've e-mailed it out over the lunch

23

break.

24

can provide to the Defense before the charge conference.

25

We did copy you.

THE COURT:

I think we have a copy here that we

What we're going to do in just a moment, we


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will bring the jury back in.

2

the Defense is resting their case.

3

We will confirm on the record that

At that point I'm going to let the jury know that we

4

have some housekeeping business to take up with y'all.

We will

5

go ahead and get a draft of the proposed charge and the verdict

6

form for y'all to take home, and first thing tomorrow morning,

7

we will meet outside the presence of the jury to hear any

8

objections or exceptions that y'all have to the proposed charge.

9

I do want you to be very careful, look at the draft very

10

carefully tonight.

It's an important part of the case, and we

11

will meet at 8:30 tomorrow on the second floor in that courtroom

12

to have the charge conference and review the charge and the

13

verdict form, and then at nine o'clock we will have the jury

14

join us and we will start with closing arguments and charge and

15

then get the case to the jury.

16

If the defendant were to be convicted, are you going to

17

request that the jury be retained for forfeiture purposes or do

18

you waive that?

19
20
21
22
23

MR. OSSICK:

Are you asking the Government are they

moving forward with it?
THE COURT:

There was a forfeiture count in the

indictment.
MR. JOSEPHSON:

There is a forfeiture count in the

24

indictment.

If I could consult with the agencies.

25

we have anything identified.

I'm not sure


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THE COURT:

You're not going to go forward?

2

MR. JOSEPHSON:

I don't think so.

If I could confer

3

with them to get that final, because there's administrative

4

forfeiture as well as --

5

THE COURT:

6

MR. JOSEPHSON:

7

THE COURT:

Well, do that right now.
Okay.

We're not moving forward.

Then I have the requested charges from each

8

of you based on how the trial actually played out.

9

any additional charges that either side wishes to add?

10

MS. STANLEY:

Are there

Your Honor, we did make some changes to

11

the request to charge and we forwarded a copy to Ms. Sharp a few

12

hours ago.

We're happy to file that on the record as well.

13

THE COURT:

What were the nature of the changes?

14

MS. STANLEY:

They were only to the substantive offense

15

instructions.

As to the conspiracy, we took out references to

16

bank fraud.

17

another Eleventh Circuit pattern that we removed.

18

it strictly within the 1349 pattern instruction, and then as to

19

the money laundering, we removed a reference to the object of

20

the conspiracy that we removed and just moved a couple things

21

around to make it a cleaner, same language.

There was also one sentence that was taken from

22

THE COURT:

23

MS. STANLEY:

24

THE COURT:

25

We just kept

And have you provided that to Mr. Ossick?
Yes, Your Honor.

Other than that, there's no additional

charges other than those revisions that you've -- okay.


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1

MS. STANLEY:

2

THE COURT:

No, Your Honor.

On behalf of the Defense, I have the ones

3

that you requested before trial.

4

you would like to request?

5

MR. OSSICK:

Are there any additions that

Your Honor, I'm not sure if I included the

6

part about how a person can act in furtherance unless they've

7

actually joined in or not a member --

8
9
10

THE COURT:

You requested that in your initial round.

Wait, you requested that it has to be another human.
MR. OSSICK:

And I'm not sure that I had that other part

11

and I think I would be wanting that if I haven't.

12

in the pattern.

But it may be

I can't recall.

13

THE COURT:

Well, look at that tonight because --

14

MR. OSSICK:

I will.

15

THE COURT:

Is there any other additional request that

16

the defendant wishes based on what actually transpired during

17

the trial?

18

MR. OSSICK:

I don't believe so, Your Honor.

19

THE COURT:

All right.

Then we will break for just a

20

little bit and then do as I say, but I need for the parties to

21

either come back or send somebody back to pick up from Ms. Sharp

22

at about 4:30 the proposed charge so that you can take your time

23

with it tonight and see any suggestions, corrections or

24

objections that you'll have and then we will meet at 8:30.

25

right, let's take our brief break.

We will be in recess.

All


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(Recess from 3:26 p.m. to 3:39 p.m.)

2

THE COURT:

3

(The jury enters the courtroom.)

4

THE COURT:

Let's bring in the jury.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.

When we

5

broke, we had completed the Government's case in chief.

We will

6

turn to the Defense.

7

put up any evidence or any witnesses or prove anything.

8

that, Mr. Ossick, any witnesses that you would like to call?

9
10
11

Recall that the defendant does not have to
With

MR. OSSICK:

No, and we would rest at this time, Your

THE COURT:

All right, ladies and gentlemen of the jury,

Honor.

12

that means that you have heard all of the evidence that you will

13

hear in the case.

14

I will tell you that we're progressing a little bit

15

ahead of time.

16

I need to cover with the attorneys that will require some time

17

so I'm going to excuse you early for the day.

18

I have some significant housekeeping issues that

I'll have you come back just as you did today by nine

19

o'clock to be in your jury room so we can start promptly at 9:00

20

tomorrow.

21

signals from a gentleman on the front.

22

they have everything fixed in my courtroom, so we should be on

23

the second floor tomorrow, but the marshals will have up-to-date

24

information in the morning, but we do anticipate being back on

25

the second floor tomorrow.

When we do start at 9:00 tomorrow -- and I see hand
All I'm hearing is that


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So when we do begin tomorrow at 9:00, we will begin with

2

the closing arguments from each side in which they will be

3

summarizing and recalling the evidence as they believe that it

4

went in.

5

you will use in deciding the case in reaching your verdict and

6

at last at that point you will retire to the jury room to reach

7

your verdict.

8

After that, I'll give you the charge on the law that

So as we leave the courthouse for the evening, remember

9

the familiar admonition:

Don't make up your mind; don't talk

10

about the case; don't do any research; don't consume any media

11

about the case.

12

With that, let's rise for the jury.

13

(The jury exits the courtroom.)

14

THE COURT:

All right, counsel, we will proceed then as

15

discussed during your previous break.

The only slight

16

alteration is if you will make arrangements with Ms. Sharp to

17

receive those charges, I think they will be ready right at about

18

five o'clock so if you want to get them electronically or stay

19

here, either way, but when I step off, if you will just make

20

those arrangements with Ms. Sharp and then I will look forward

21

to seeing you what we believe to be on the second floor tomorrow

22

at 8:30 for our charge conference.

23

All right, we will be in recess.

24

(Proceeding concluded at 3:44 p.m.)

25


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CERTIFICATION

2
3

I certify that the foregoing is a true and correct

4

transcript of the stenographic record of the above-mentioned

5

matter.

6
7

9

__________________________________

04/24/2023

10

Debra Gilbert, Court Reporter

Date

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