Court filing
COURT EXHIBIT: Transcript of the 90 and 91 Audio/Video Exhibits (FBI Interview of Carl… — USA v. Torjagbo (Dkt. 145)
Filed December 30, 2024 in USA v. Torjagbo; one of 189 filings from this case.
Record facts
| Court | U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia |
|---|---|
| Filed | 2024-12-30 |
U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia · No. 1:22-cr-00171-MLB-RDC · Doc. 145 · 2024-12-30 · Docket on CourtListener
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT - OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT
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FBI INTERVIEW OF CARL TORJAGBO
TAKEN ON MAY 12, 2024 AT 9:58 AM
STENOGRAPHICALLY TRANSCRIBED BY:
PENNY PRITTY COUDRIET, RMR, CRR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
ATLANTA, GEORGIA
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(MAY 12, 2024)
(9:58 AM)
AGENT CARUANA: Today is May 12th, approximately
9:58 AM, here with Special Agent Caruana and Pressley, with an
in-custody interview of Carl Torjagbo?
MR. TORJAGBO: Torjagbo.
AGENT CARUANA: Torjagbo. Conducting an in-custody
interview.
So, like I said, before we ask you any questions you
must understand your rights.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: You have the right to remain silent.
Anything -- do you understand that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Anything you can say -- anything you
say can be used against you in court. Do you understand that?
MR. TORJAGBO: (No verbal response heard).
AGENT CARUANA: You have the right to talk to a
lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions. Do you
understand that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: You have the right to have a lawyer
with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer,
one will be appointed to you before any questioning if you
wish.
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MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: If you decide to answer questions now
without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering
at any time. Do you understand all those rights?
MR. TORJAGBO: (No verbal response heard.)
AGENT CARUANA: Do you consent to speak with us
briefly this morning?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, I'll speak briefly. I don't
have anything to hide or (unintelligible).
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. So you waive all those rights?
MR. TORJAGBO: (Unintelligible.)
AGENT CARUANA: And basically this says here: I have
read this statement of my rights and I understand what my
rights are.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: At this time I'm willing to answer
questions without a lawyer present. Okay.
What I want you to do --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- is just sign right there, okay?
Just don't do anything with that pen, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Just sign?
AGENT CARUANA: Just sign it. All right. Just want
to sign there real quick.
The first thing I want to ask you --
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MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- is you have seven rigs here,
right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Where are the other trucks and
trailers that you have?
MR. TORJAGBO: Some of them, we haven't picked them
up yet.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. So you already purchased them?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, but we haven't picked them up.
AGENT CARUANA: Are they going to be transit or what?
MR. TORJAGBO: I have one driver that's working with
me right now. He's -- you know, because I don't have a lot of
drivers, right, it's kind of hard for us to pick up the stuff,
you know, so he has to go and come, go and come.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: How many drivers do you have?
MR. TORJAGBO: Right now two. I'll say two. One is
on the road right now. One was supposed to show up here
because we were supposed to have a DOT inspection supposedly
at 10:00 and -- yeah, those are the only two drivers I have.
AGENT CARUANA: What are their names?
MR. TORJAGBO: Brian Gonzu (phonetic) and Ben --
Bretel.
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AGENT CARUANA: What's the second one?
MR. TORJAGBO: Bretel.
AGENT CARUANA: Bretel?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: How do you -- is that the --
MR. TORJAGBO: B-R-E-T-E-L.
AGENT CARUANA: Is that the first name or last name?
MR. TORJAGBO: First name.
AGENT CARUANA: What's the last name?
MR. TORJAGBO: Brown.
AGENT CARUANA: Bretel Brown?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Which one is out of town?
MR. TORJAGBO: Brian was home.
AGENT CARUANA: Brian was home.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Bretel is in McDonough,
Georgia, right now.
AGENT CARUANA: So they're not picking up any trucks
right now?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, no. He's picking up a load
actually.
AGENT CARUANA: Does he have a truck of yours?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Yeah. He has a truck.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Where does he keep that truck?
MR. TORJAGBO: All the trucks are kept here.
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AGENT CARUANA: All of them are here?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So once -- but you only have seven
here?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I have almost nine of them.
AGENT CARUANA: Are all your trucks here?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Oh, they are?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Save the one that is on the road,
yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: And who has that? Bretel has that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Bretel has that, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So eventually he will be coming back
here to drop it off?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. How do we get ahold of Bretel?
MR. TORJAGBO: His number is on my phone.
AGENT CARUANA: On your phone?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Still out there.
What about -- is that -- that's your Range Rover
there?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
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AGENT CARUANA: That's the one you bought with the
PPP money, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I didn't buy that with the --
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah, you did. You did.
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I did not.
AGENT CARUANA: We're taking that car, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: I mean, I'm not --
AGENT CARUANA: Where -- where is the -- where's the
BMW?
MR. TORJAGBO: It's at the house.
AGENT CARUANA: It's at the house?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Is there anybody at the house right
now?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Do you live with anybody at
the house?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: No. What about your girlfriend? Do
you have a girlfriend or a wife?
MR. TORJAGBO: I don't have a wife. I have a
girlfriend, but she doesn't live with me.
AGENT CARUANA: What's Claudia's situation? She
doesn't live with you?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, she don't live with me.
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AGENT CARUANA: Okay. So you live in that big house
by yourself?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: And there's nobody there right now?
MR. TORJAGBO: Nobody there right now.
AGENT CARUANA: Do you have a key fob -- where is the
car? Is it in your garage?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, it's in my garage.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Do you have a key fob for your
garage?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: So we can -- so we can get in there
without having to break the door down?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. I can show you. I have a key
hidden.
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh.
MR. TORJAGBO: I can show you where the key is
hidden.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. But do you have like a key
fob, like a garage door opener in your Range Rover --
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: -- that will get us into that garage?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Because the last thing we want to do
is tear down your garage door.
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MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: But I want to make something clear.
AGENT CARUANA: Sure.
MR. TORJAGBO: Most of my property, like my -- what
you call it -- my house and my -- what you call it -- and the
cars and stuff like that I bought with my own money, it's not
PPP money.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: And I can prove that to you.
AGENT CARUANA: You can prove that to us?
MR. TORJAGBO: I can prove that to you.
AGENT CARUANA: Let me tell you something.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. The last thing you want to do
is be deceptive with us and not be honest. Okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: I know --
AGENT CARUANA: No, no, no, no, no.
MR. TORJAGBO: I know better than to lie to the FBI.
I know that.
AGENT CARUANA: You cannot -- you cannot lie to us,
okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: I know that.
AGENT CARUANA: Because right now you're working to
reduce those points.
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MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: You lying to us is going to increase
those points and that's another charge, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: I know that.
AGENT CARUANA: And let me tell you something --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- we have all your bank records,
okay? So we've traced the money.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay? You're being charged with
money laundering as well, okay? So -- think about you sitting
there and telling us that you bought that with your own money
because you did not, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Honestly, I can prove that to you.
AGENT CARUANA: You can prove it to us?
MR. TORJAGBO: I can prove it to you.
AGENT CARUANA: Well, that's not the right way to go
because you're not going to be able to prove it because we
have the evidence that disproves what you're telling us, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay. I mean --
AGENT CARUANA: But we --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: But we'll deal with that. Okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay. Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: So the BMW is at the -- your house?
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MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Which is that -- what's the address
there?
MR. TORJAGBO: 5114 Greythorne.
AGENT CARUANA: 5114 Greythorne?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Did you have anybody help
you --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- obtain this PPP loan?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I just applied for it by myself.
AGENT CARUANA: You just applied for it by yourself?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: How long has Kremkov Industries been
in business?
MR. TORJAGBO: For about three or four years.
AGENT CARUANA: Three or four years?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: How many employees does it have?
MR. TORJAGBO: Right now it's on halt because most of
the business is done in Africa.
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah.
MR. TORJAGBO: It's a mining -- it's a mining
business.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
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MR. TORJAGBO: And with COVID and the COVID -- what
do you call it -- restrictions, and lack of vaccine in Africa
right now --
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh. Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: In the mines they have to be like very
close together.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So, you know, really we can't do
anything right now.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So that's why I was -- you know, I'm
rechanneling my efforts into transportation.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: And also the mining business is kind
of flaky in Africa.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: If there's a change of government --
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- then everything changes.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So that's why I'm rechanneling the
effort into transportation.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So all your employees are in Africa
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really?
MR. TORJAGBO: Most of them. Most of them --
AGENT CARUANA: Most of them are in Africa?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, most of the people that do the
mining are there, uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: And you said you've been in business
about three or four years?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: How much money do you earn from
that -- from Kremkov, how much income do you earn about (sic)
it every year?
MR. TORJAGBO: I mean, with the mining business, it's
lucrative.
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah.
MR. TORJAGBO: I mean, it depends on how much you
sell.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Okay. And where are your bank
accounts for Kremkov?
MR. TORJAGBO: Well, our (unintelligible) has several
foreign accounts.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So, I mean, the Emirates, some back in
Africa.
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AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So about how many employees do you
have?
MR. TORJAGBO: Right now, like I said, you know --
AGENT CARUANA: Let's say 20 -- 2020, 2021.
MR. TORJAGBO: In 2020, 2021?
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Probably about 50.
AGENT CARUANA: About 50?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. How many in the United States?
MR. TORJAGBO: In the US, honestly off the top of my
head I don't know.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. What was the maximum amount of
employees that you've ever had?
MR. TORJAGBO: That's like -- it's high ten over, so
honestly, you know --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- I cannot -- you know, I don't know
off the top of my head.
AGENT CARUANA: I mean, just take a guess, a
guesstimate. I mean, was it 50? Is it 100? Is it 10?
MR. TORJAGBO: Honestly, I can't answer that
question. I haven't --
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AGENT CARUANA: I mean, just take a guess. I mean,
you're the owner, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, I'm the owner.
AGENT CARUANA: And you pay them, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. I pay them, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So you cut the checks. So, I mean,
just kind of like approximately how much do you pay them? I
mean, how many employees do you pay on a biweekly basis?
MR. TORJAGBO: On a biweekly basis?
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh.
MR. TORJAGBO: It depends on how many people are, you
know, digging and mining at the time.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Now, approximately how many
people is that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Like I said, I don't know off the top
of my head because it's a high turnover.
AGENT CARUANA: Just take a guesstimate. I'm not
going to lock you into it. I mean, just a rough guesstimate.
MR. TORJAGBO: A rough guesstimate, maybe 50, 60.
AGENT CARUANA: About 50, 60?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. All right. And, I mean, about
how much annually do you pay or quarterly do you pay these
people? What's your total payroll?
MR. TORJAGBO: Like I said, those are hard figures
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and I don't know off the top of my head. So honestly I don't
want to answer that question.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Okay. Are you sure you want
to tell me this stuff because it's not really going to help
you?
MR. TORJAGBO: I know that, but I don't want to tell
you something which is wrong and then it -- you know, it
appears as if I'm deceiving you or something.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So if it's something that is hard
figures that can contradict what I say, I rather not --
AGENT CARUANA: Carl? Carl?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: I don't know how -- how clear I can
make it to you.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: This is a paper case, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: And it's a follow-the-money case.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: And the evidence shows that what
you're telling me --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
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AGENT CARUANA: -- is bullshit. So you're not going
to help yourself out by giving us a bunch of bullshit, okay?
How -- how honest can I be with you?
MR. TORJAGBO: And, like I said, to the best of my
ability I'm being plain -- I'll be plain and honest with you.
Like when it comes to hard figures, I don't want to --
AGENT CARUANA: I don't need a hard figure, okay?
You opened your bank account here to put the PPP funds into.
You didn't have a bank account for all this Kremkov Industries
stuff here in the United States.
MR. TORJAGBO: No, it's because the business
originated in Africa.
AGENT CARUANA: You never had any income, bro. You
never had any income from Kremkov. That's why I'm telling you
how clear can I be?
MR. TORJAGBO: I had income from --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: I had income from Kremkov but all of
them are foreign bank accounts. In the United States -- okay.
You see, the business started back in Africa, you know, back
in Africa because I inherited a piece of property that had
gold and diamonds on it. You know, at that time I was living
out of state. I was living in Dubai because I was working in
Dubai and I'm in the business.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
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MR. TORJAGBO: You know. So when I came back to the
states, I registered the business in the states, you know.
And that made me eligible to apply for the PPP loan.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So everything started outside the
states, that -- that's how -- that's how it is.
AGENT CARUANA: Well, where did you --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: How much -- how much of those -- that
PPP money did you pay for -- pay employees here in the United
States?
MR. TORJAGBO: Save the employees I have right now
and then rechanneling -- what do you call it -- the money into
transportation --
AGENT CARUANA: So you rechanneled the money, the PPP
money for Kremkov for your employees into buying all these
rigs?
MR. TORJAGBO: Because --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- I intended to take it as a loan
instead of ask for forgiveness.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So I intended to take it as a loan.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So on August 10th the loan matures and
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then I'll start paying for it. So that is -- that is what I'm
doing because --
AGENT CARUANA: Do you have insurance for these rigs?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, I do.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. You do?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: What -- I'm going to --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Do all your rigs have the Flying Jack
logo on them?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes, save this one that we just got.
AGENT CARUANA: Which is --
MR. TORJAGBO: The black one.
AGENT CARUANA: This one right here?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. We just got that yesterday.
AGENT CARUANA: So this one's yours?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: This one here?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Any one with the logo with the
exception of the black one.
AGENT PRESSLEY: Keys to the truck?
AGENT CARUANA: Where are the keys?
MR. TORJAGBO: They are in the trailer.
AGENT PRESSLEY: In the trailer?
AGENT CARUANA: Are the trailers open?
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MR. TORJAGBO: No, it's not open.
AGENT CARUANA: How do you get into the trailers?
MR. TORJAGBO: The keys are on my keys.
AGENT CARUANA: On your key chain there?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, on my key chain.
AGENT CARUANA: Are they padlocks?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Padlock, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So I intended to take it as a loan
instead of ask for forgiveness --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- because I know at the maturity of
the PPP, if you start paying for it, it becomes a regular loan
and then you start paying for it. So that is why I, you know,
rechanneled all this into the transportation because my
intention is to take it as a regular loan and then pay for it
instead of ask for forgiveness.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Which is against the rules for
PPP, I mean, because the money was for Kremkov to pay for your
employees and -- to pay 493 employees in the United States,
okay? You don't have 493 employees. And you used the money
to buy your trucks, which is against the law under the PPP
program, okay? You know that. You signed the documents, you
initialed that you understood all that stuff.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes, but -- I also understood that if
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you -- that is if you're asking for forgiveness. If you
intend to take it as a loan, then you don't ask for
forgiveness and then it turns to a regular loan at the
maturity.
AGENT CARUANA: Why didn't you get a loan in Flying
Jack's name then?
MR. TORJAGBO: Because at that time Flying Jack was
not established.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Flying Jack was not established. And,
like I said, with the difficulty in the mining industry with
what we're facing, I was like, okay, I think it's a better
idea to do something here instead of having to like, you know,
deal with all the COVID rules and restrictions and stuff
overseas with the lack of vaccine. So my intention was to
rechannel this, of whatever I borrowed, back into
transportation and then take it as a regular loan. So that is
what I did.
AGENT CARUANA: Which key is it?
AGENT PRESSLEY: Which key is it?
AGENT CARUANA: For the padlocks.
MR. TORJAGBO: The padlock keys.
AGENT PRESSLEY: It's one key for all the padlocks?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, it's just one padlock. It's that
key.
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AGENT CARUANA: And all the keys are in the one
trailer?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. So if you open the trailer,
right, in the back of the trailer you see a brown box and
there's a black folder. And the folder, when you open the
folder, it has all the keys of the trucks.
AGENT PRESSLEY: Which trailer has all these keys?
MR. TORJAGBO: It's -- when you are facing this way,
not the left one, it's the second one.
AGENT PRESSLEY: Second one?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. It's the only trailer with a
key on it.
AGENT PRESSLEY: Okay. And which key is it?
MR. TORJAGBO: This key.
AGENT PRESSLEY: This one?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT PRESSLEY: All right.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
AGENT PRESSLEY: Thank you.
AGENT CARUANA: So if you would have applied for a
loan under Flying Jack --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- you would not have gotten a loan,
is that what the thought was?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, because I started Flying Jack
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almost after the -- what you call it -- the PPP program was
over. I started Flying Jack after the PPP program was over
because, like I said, with the difficulties I was facing, it
was -- it made sense for me to just rechannel the money to
transportation, you know, and then do something here and then
actually, you know, take it as a loan and then pay back. So
that was my intention.
AGENT CARUANA: So in order to get a loan through
Kremkov you had to submit the false documents and that sort of
thing in order for them to approve it?
MR. TORJAGBO: I didn't submit any false documents.
AGENT CARUANA: Oh, you didn't?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. I mean, like I said, with the
business being in Africa and all that stuff --
AGENT CARUANA: No, no, no. So, I mean, you
submitted a list of 493 employees that are all here in the
United States with your loan package. So that's fake. That's
bullshit. Okay? I mean, the PPP loan is not for people in
Africa, it's for the employees here in the United States. And
in order to get that loan, you had to submit a 71-page list of
fake people, fake employees to chase for -- in order for them
to give you your loan. So that's a fake document, correct?
Yes?
MR. TORJAGBO: I believe they changed the rules on
that one because they canceled the loan that I applied for
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first and then reissued it based on -- because --
AGENT CARUANA: 493 employees.
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, no. They changed the rules on
how you get the PPP money.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: They changed the rules from the number
of employees to how much you actually make.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. So that was canceled. And then
they redid the loan based on how much you actually make.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. So how much do you actually
make?
MR. TORJAGBO: Like I said, those are like hard
figures, so like, you know...
AGENT CARUANA: How much do you actually make here in
the United States?
MR. TORJAGBO: Do I actually make here in the United
States?
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah. For Kremkov.
MR. TORJAGBO: Like I said, you know, with -- you
know, with Kremkov all my -- all my -- okay.
AGENT CARUANA: Zero.
MR. TORJAGBO: All my accounts were foreign accounts.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: That's how it was, yeah. So, I just
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had to provide statements based on how much I made on the
foreign accounts, that's it.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Your 940s and 941s you
submitted?
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: With your payroll, your average
monthly payroll?
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Bullshit. And you know that's fake
too, right? That's why -- that's why I'm telling you, we
don't need you to cooperate, okay? That's why I'm trying
to -- like I said, I don't know how clear to you I can be,
okay? The paper is what proves it. The paper and the flow of
money. I've been doing this for a long time, okay? I don't
want -- I don't want to see you get in any more trouble than
what you're already in, that's why I was clear to you and
explained to you how you can help yourself in the federal
system. And I guarantee you you speak to any attorney,
attorney gets appointed to you when you go through these
proceedings, or you hire your own attorney, they will tell you
the same thing. And I don't want you to sit back there later
on and say, damn, he told me so. Okay? I'm not trying to
play you.
MR. TORJAGBO: I know that.
AGENT CARUANA: I'm trying to be straight with that,
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okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: And I doing the same as -- you know,
to the best of my ability without making it look like --
AGENT CARUANA: You ain't doing so good. Okay.
So -- but anyways --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- your 940s and 941s are bullshit.
The W-2s that you filed -- you didn't even file for yourself
are bullshit, okay? You got bigger problems to deal with,
too. It's not just this. And you know what I'm talking
about, okay?
We've done our homework. We've done our
investigation, okay? This is the end. And that's why I told
you the game is over. Now it's time for you to try to help
yourself, okay? I'm trying to play you straight. All right?
So you -- you're going to give us consent to open
your garage door and get that other vehicle. We have a
seizure warrant for that. The alternative is we're going to
have to get a search warrant and tear your door down, which we
don't want to do, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: All right. You consent to us to open
your garage door, use your key fob and we're going to take
that vehicle?
MR. TORJAGBO: But, honestly, those vehicles and the
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house and all that --
AGENT CARUANA: Just say yes or no for the record.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Yes. Okay.
And you can sit there and tell me that you used your
own money, which is bullshit because we've got all the bank
records and the flow of money to show how you paid for this
stuff, okay? And that's why the judge -- and we presented the
evidence to a judge and the judge -- you've been indicted
before a grand jury. We presented the case to a grand jury.
I don't know how many juror members were there. Sixteen,
twenty, whatever the quorum is. And based upon the evidence
we presented to them, they're like, yeah, you have enough
probable cause to indict him, which means you've been charged,
okay?
And we presented all the evidence to a judge for all
these seizure warrants to take all these vehicles and it was
enough evidence under the law for the judge to say, yes, I'll
give you approval to take all of these assets, okay?
So right now, I mean, the evidence is going a long,
long way, okay? And you tell me you have evidence to prove
that you -- that you used your own money for that. Yeah, it
may have came from your bank account, but guess where that
money came from? It originated with Kremkov and then you
transferred it to PNC and Bank of America. You started Flying
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Jack.
Why did you change your name?
MR. TORJAGBO: I decided to change my name when I was
in the military. It's because my last name was hard --
AGENT CARUANA: When did you change your name?
MR. TORJAGBO: It was like September last year.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. When were you in the military?
MR. TORJAGBO: I was in the military almost like --
since like 2012 or something like that.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. When did you get out?
MR. TORJAGBO: I was insured, so it was like a year.
AGENT CARUANA: What?
MR. TORJAGBO: Like a year. So 2013.
AGENT CARUANA: So 2013. And you said you changed
your name while you were in the military?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I said I decided to change my
name.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. When did you legally change
your name?
MR. TORJAGBO: Like September.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Why did you change your name?
MR. TORJAGBO: It's because the last name was hard to
pronounce.
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AGENT CARUANA: It was hard to pronounce?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Torjagbo?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. It's just -- everybody just
butchers it, so I did -- you know, I decided to use my first
name and my middle name, which is Carl Delano.
AGENT CARUANA: And where'd Lucius come from?
MR. TORJAGBO: Lucius is just a character I liked so
much as a kid in Gladiator, so I just put the name there,
yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: And Claudia is your girlfriend?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Did you send any money to her?
MR. TORJAGBO: She asked me to loan her some money
because she was trying to close on a house, so I gave her, you
know --
AGENT CARUANA: How much did you give her?
MR. TORJAGBO: It was about a couple thousand
dollars.
AGENT CARUANA: Couple thousand?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Is that all?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Remember --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
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AGENT CARUANA: I hope you don't have a short memory
but we have the bank records, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: I know.
AGENT CARUANA: So you only gave her a couple
thousand dollars?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: To help her buy the house?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. And then -- yeah, it was like I
think 2,500 or $2,800 or something like that --
AGENT CARUANA: That's it?
MR. TORJAGBO: -- because she was short. And then --
AGENT CARUANA: What does Claudia do for a living?
MR. TORJAGBO: Claudia, she dances.
AGENT CARUANA: She dances?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: What kind of dancing?
MR. TORJAGBO: She's an exotic dancer.
AGENT CARUANA: Exotic dancer?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Are those your guys?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, they are working on -- they were
just working on putting the logos on --
AGENT CARUANA: Are they your employees or do you
just pay them like to do the work?
MR. TORJAGBO: I pay them to do the work, yeah.
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AGENT CARUANA: Okay. So they don't -- do they have
anything to do with this?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, no.
AGENT CARUANA: What are their names? Are they
friends of yours or --
MR. TORJAGBO: No, they're not friends of mine, they
are just putting logos -- it's a company I paid to put the
logos on the tractor-trailers, that's it.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. What company did you pay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Fastsigns.
AGENT CARUANA: Fastsigns?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Do you have any trucks or
trailers in the paint shop right now?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. Like I said, some of them --
about four or five trailers in Memphis that needs to be picked
up.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Where at in Memphis?
MR. TORJAGBO: Oh, jeez. It's a yard. I don't know
exactly. It's like an auction.
AGENT CARUANA: How many are there?
MR. TORJAGBO: Four of them.
AGENT CARUANA: Four of them?
MR. TORJAGBO: I think four or five of them.
AGENT CARUANA: So you bought more trucks?
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MR. TORJAGBO: No. The track (sic) trailers sort of
trucks.
AGENT CARUANA: Oh, you bought more trailers?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: When did you just buy those trailers?
MR. TORJAGBO: We bought them for a while, we just
don't have the manpower to pick them up, you know, because
like it's Brian is the only one that goes up and down and he
has to, like, you know, travel, you know, go pick up the
trailer, find a load back. And so, you know, he's doing all
the work and it's taking time.
AGENT CARUANA: How did you pay for those trailers?
From what bank account did you use?
MR. TORJAGBO: From my Bank of America bank account.
AGENT CARUANA: From your Bank of America account?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: That's under Flying Jack, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: You got any money in there?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, I do.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. About how much?
MR. TORJAGBO: Probably about 100,000.
AGENT CARUANA: About 100,000?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: You got money in your PNC account?
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MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: About how much?
MR. TORJAGBO: Roughly 2 million.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. And then the 500,000 that you
withdrew, you did two $500,000 withdrawals, one in February,
one in April. Those were used to buy these trucks and
trailers?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Mostly equipment
(unintelligible) for like -- to develop -- where to put the --
like a yard for operating.
AGENT CARUANA: You were going to open your own yard?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Up in Cartersville?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. The Cartersville property, we
having complications with it. So I had to buy another one.
They said we had to put three 60-inch pipes, which is going to
cost like $360,000. I'm like --
AGENT CARUANA: 360,000?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Parts for what? Sewage?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: Or rainwater or something?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Like there's an underground
river, so they wanted us to do that for the entire length of
the -- of the --
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AGENT CARUANA: Yeah.
MR. TORJAGBO: And that wasn't cost effective. So I
bought another one in Acworth, which is under development
right now.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Is that Holt.
MR. TORJAGBO: Holt, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: 101 Holt?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Are you developing that right now?
MR. TORJAGBO: Well, they are doing the -- we went to
the city meeting. And then we submitted the business plan.
And then they are doing the survey and the typography and all
that stuff. And then --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- the next phase will be to like
grade the land and level it and all that good stuff.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Okay. What other properties
do you have?
MR. TORJAGBO: That's it.
AGENT CARUANA: You have Holt Road? You've got
Cartersville?
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: You've got your house?
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: What did you do -- who is the -- who
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is the person in Texas? What's her relationship to you?
MR. TORJAGBO: That's just a business partner.
BE.Logistics, we just do business with them.
AGENT CARUANA: What's the name?
MR. TORJAGBO: BE.Logistics.
AGENT CARUANA: BE.Logistics?
MR. TORJAGBO: BE.
AGENT CARUANA: BE.
MR. TORJAGBO: Logistics.
AGENT CARUANA: Logistics. And it's a trucking
company?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, they are dispatchers.
AGENT CARUANA: Dispatchers?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Who runs BE.Logistics?
MR. TORJAGBO: Honestly, I think it's a guy named
Brandon.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Who is Monica Sweeten
(phonetic).
MR. TORJAGBO: Monica is a girl I used to work with.
She was actually my sim partner in -- what do you call it --
when I was working for United Express.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. She was what kind of partner?
MR. TORJAGBO: Simulator. Sim partner. We were like
flight training colleagues.
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AGENT CARUANA: Oh, a sim partner?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Like a flight simulator?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Is she a pilot?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Why did you send her money? Why did
you help her buy some stuff?
MR. TORJAGBO: Oh, she -- she was in some situation
and she needed to borrow the money to close and then --
AGENT CARUANA: To buy a house?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. And then she gave it back to
me.
AGENT CARUANA: When did she give it back to you?
MR. TORJAGBO: Jeez. Probably like a week or
something.
AGENT CARUANA: Oh, just recently?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Yeah. She --
AGENT CARUANA: And the money that you sent to her
was from your -- it was either your PNC or Bank of America
account?
MR. TORJAGBO: I believe it's Bank of America.
AGENT CARUANA: Bank of America?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Do you still keep in contact
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with her?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah? Is she a good friend?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Why did you stop flying?
MR. TORJAGBO: Well, I'm still flying. Like I said,
I was working in Dubai. I was trying to switch airlines
because the airplane I was flying was crashing. I flew the
Max. So I came back here and I got a job with -- what do you
call it -- China Southern and Vietnam Airlines. And right
when I was about to start training COVID hit, so...
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh (affirmative). Okay. Besides
flying flights freight logistics, did you have any other
employment or sources of income or anything like that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Right now?
AGENT CARUANA: It's just all Flying Jack?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: You've got to be hemorrhaging money
right now. You're paying all this money for insurance on
these rigs and they're sitting here, they're not operating.
What's going -- how are you managing that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Well, like I said, we -- you know,
if you realize, most of the trucks we had just now got the
registration. There's a couple of registrations in my car.
The three people you saw with the judge back there -- he's
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actually a judge.
AGENT CARUANA: He's a judge?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Which one was the judge?
MR. TORJAGBO: The old guy with the hat.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Judge for where?
MR. TORJAGBO: I think he's in Cartersville, one of
the courthouses there.
AGENT CARUANA: In what courthouse?
MR. TORJAGBO: I've forgotten exactly where it is.
AGENT CARUANA: Here in Georgia?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. In Georgia, yeah. He's a
part-time judge.
AGENT CARUANA: But what courthouse?
MR. TORJAGBO: I don't remember exactly but he --
AGENT CARUANA: Is it county or --
MR. TORJAGBO: County. He's in Cartersville.
He's --
AGENT CARUANA: Cat- --
MR. TORJAGBO: Cartersville.
AGENT CARUANA: Cartersville?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, Cartersville.
AGENT CARUANA: Oh, okay.
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MR. TORJAGBO: He lives in Cartersville.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So we hired him and I -- we have about
four students that I'm training right now. So that is the
plan. I mean, as soon as they are done with the training -- I
paid for them to take the learning permit. And then I pay the
judge. And then they just have to get into an agreement to
work for me for 18 months --
AGENT CARUANA: A judge is going to work for you?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. He's right there.
AGENT CARUANA: What's he going to do for you?
MR. TORJAGBO: He's just instructing them how to --
instructing them how to land -- teaching them how to drive the
trucks.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. That's what he's doing --
AGENT CARUANA: He's got a CDL?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, he has a CDL.
AGENT CARUANA: Do you have yours?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. No.
AGENT CARUANA: But your pilot license is still
active?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. You got ties to Guana?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, I have family in Guana.
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AGENT CARUANA: You have family. Is that where
you're from?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Where were you born?
MR. TORJAGBO: South Africa.
AGENT CARUANA: South Africa?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Like what country?
MR. TORJAGBO: Cape Town.
AGENT CARUANA: Cape Town?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. When did you come to the
United States?
MR. TORJAGBO: When I was -- just when I finished
high school.
AGENT CARUANA: High school?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: With family or --
MR. TORJAGBO: My siblings were here before I came.
AGENT CARUANA: Your siblings were?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: And my sister was here. You know, I
had another sister join and --
AGENT CARUANA: Do you have a mom and dad?
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MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Were they here?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. My mom -- actually, they are
trying to come here in August. They come seasonally, they
just come to visit back and forth.
AGENT CARUANA: So how did you come over to the
United States, under what -- like what program --
MR. TORJAGBO: I came as F-1 visa.
AGENT CARUANA: F-1 visa?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: What's the F-1 visa?
MR. TORJAGBO: It's a student visa.
AGENT CARUANA: Student visa?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Were you required to go back at all?
MR. TORJAGBO: Not really.
AGENT CARUANA: Not really?
MR. TORJAGBO: Because I came here as a F-1 visa.
I -- what you call it -- I went to college. After I graduated
college --
AGENT CARUANA: Uh-huh.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- I got a contract with the Air
Force. And then, you know, from there I went to the Army.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: And that's how I got my paperwork, my
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citizenship here.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Why do you have two social
security numbers?
MR. TORJAGBO: I changed them. I believe I changed
them.
AGENT CARUANA: Well, I know you changed them, but, I
mean, what was your reason to change them because typically
you don't get two social security numbers?
MR. TORJAGBO: I mean, I --
AGENT CARUANA: What kind of paperwork or information
did you give them to convince them to give you another social
security number?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I didn't convince them to give
me a number. Because I know you can change your social
security number but keep the same file, just like you change
your name when you get married or something.
AGENT CARUANA: Why did you want to change your
social security number?
MR. TORJAGBO: Well, it's because, like -- like, you
know --
AGENT CARUANA: Were people making fun of your social
security number?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, not making fun of the social
security number. It's just some people try to get some --
what you call it -- credit cards and stuff in my name.
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AGENT CARUANA: Yeah.
MR. TORJAGBO: One of my roommates.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So that's why. That prompted me to
change it.
AGENT CARUANA: So let me ask you this.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: The 493 people, their names that you
had on that 71-page list that you submitted to Chase, where
did you get all that data from? It was fake payroll. Where
did you get all their names from? Did you buy that from
somebody or did you just make them up? Did you pull them off
of some kind of, like, public record? Where did you get them
all from?
And this is important because, I mean, it's a lot of
names. I mean, did you use them for anything else or was it
just on that payroll file?
MR. TORJAGBO: Honestly, I refrain from answering
that question.
AGENT CARUANA: You don't want to answer that?
MR. TORJAGBO: I don't want to answer that question.
AGENT CARUANA: What if I asked you it this way: Did
you pay somebody to get those names?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: You didn't pay anybody to get those
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names?
MR. TORJAGBO: I --
AGENT CARUANA: Somebody else gave them to you?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: You got them somehow on your own?
MR. TORJAGBO: I refrain from answering that
question.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Did you use those names for
anything else?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Do those people have to worry
about credit issues or anything like that?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: Are they real names or are they fake
names?
MR. TORJAGBO: They are real names.
AGENT CARUANA: They are real names?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. But you didn't use them for
anything else but on that payroll list?
MR. TORJAGBO: I didn't use anybody's information for
anything -- anybody's information that I used is somehow
affiliated with me.
AGENT CARUANA: All those people's names on that
71-page -- pages are somehow affiliated with you? There's 493
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people's names or more.
MR. TORJAGBO: Like I said, I've had a -- you know, a
high turnover. Without looking at the list, you know, I'm not
exactly sure, so I wouldn't comment on that.
AGENT CARUANA: And there were no W-2s that were
filed for any of those people either, so -- I mean, if you're
going to try to say that that was legitimate, you're going to
lose that one, too.
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I'm not going to say that because,
like I said, the loan was not approved based on that, it was
approved based on how much money you made because the -- it
was canceled, so it was approved -- because they changed the
rules of the PPP and the loan was approved based on how much
money you made instead of how many employees you had.
AGENT CARUANA: Well, you can try to use that as an
argument, but that's not going to fly. So, I mean, think
about that. I mean, once you talk to an attorney --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- I mean, they can counsel you on
that.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Do you have any questions?
AGENT PRESSLEY: Yeah. I'm just trying to make sure
that I wrap my head around, when did you say Kremkov was
originated? You said in Africa?
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MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT PRESSLEY: What year was that?
MR. TORJAGBO: Probably like 2015 or '14.
AGENT PRESSLEY: Okay. And then you came here. And
when did you originate Kremkov, because you said you had to
originate it here, correct?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. I just had to -- you know, I
just had to register it here. I think I registered -- I
registered -- I'm not exactly sure of the date, but I
registered it here --
AGENT CARUANA: You registered it just before you got
your PPP loan?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Because otherwise if you didn't
register, you weren't going to get one, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I registered it
then.
AGENT CARUANA: And prior to that, I mean, there were
no US operations for Kremkov, it was all in Africa, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes. It was all in Africa, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. And, I mean, I can hazard to
bet that there really wasn't any -- a whole lot of revenue
that you were getting in Africa for that company either?
MR. TORJAGBO: I mean, there was revenue.
AGENT CARUANA: Not a whole lot.
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MR. TORJAGBO: There's a lot of revenue in gold.
Yes, there is.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. But there's nothing here in
the United States. I mean, it's all in Africa.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, because most of my accounts were
foreign accounts, so...
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah. Okay.
I'm sorry. Did you --
AGENT PRESSLEY: I'm just trying to understand the
flow.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So you're saying that Kremkov was in
existence but it was really -- it had no US operations, it was
all overseas operations?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes.
AGENT CARUANA: Until you actually registered it with
the Georgia Secretary of State?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: But even when you registered it to
Georgia Secretary of State there was no -- at that time you
still don't have any US operations with Kremkov, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes, I didn't -- I did have US
operation with Kremkov but --
AGENT CARUANA: There is no US operation with
Kremkov --
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MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: -- right?
MR. TORJAGBO: But the only requirement was for the
company to be registered in the US for me to qualify for it.
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah. Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: That was the only requirement.
That's why I did --
AGENT CARUANA: In operation -- in operation in the
US by February 20th of 2020, which that's not true but --
MR. TORJAGBO: Well --
AGENT CARUANA: -- that's the least of your worries,
though.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah. Because, like I said, I mean,
when I read the rules, my understanding is like if you needed
to prove -- what do you call it, what do you call it -- any
type of operation, you needed receipts or -- what do you call
it -- like invoices or stuff like that and I had some, like,
receipts and shipping paperwork and stuff like that to prove
that I was in existence in the US. And that's all that was
required of me.
AGENT CARUANA: So tell me about this bullshit W-2
that you filed with the IRS -- or provided with -- put on your
tax return showing that you had $9 million in some -- in
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wages.
MR. TORJAGBO: That's not any bullshit this time.
With the IRS --
AGENT CARUANA: You paid yourself over $9 million in
salary?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. The -- what you call it -- the
IRS, it's -- you know, it's -- what you call it -- for mining
industries and for -- what you call it -- mining and oil
industries, there's a tax credit for -- because in the first
year of your operation when you are digging and like, you
know, you are not actually making money, you are just digging
and dredging and stuff like that, so there's a tax credit for
miners and for -- what you call it -- oil companies. So --
AGENT CARUANA: You didn't take it. You paid
yourself over $9 million in wages.
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, no.
AGENT CARUANA: According to what you filed.
MR. TORJAGBO: No. I reported a loss. And when I
reported the loss -- because like when you file for that --
AGENT CARUANA: You reported the loss and then you
got the -- the tax withholding that you said you paid into the
IRS back, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: No. Tell me how it happened then.
MR. TORJAGBO: How it works is like, okay, so for
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mining companies and for oil companies, right, the first --
for the first two, three years that you're in operation, most
of them -- it's like sort of like a research (unintelligible).
So if you are in -- what you call it -- mining or oil, you are
spending money for dredging, digging and then exploration, you
know.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Did you spend that money in
the United States?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, I didn't --
AGENT CARUANA: Did you spend any of that money?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes, I did.
AGENT CARUANA: Where?
MR. TORJAGBO: Back in Africa.
AGENT CARUANA: In Africa?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, because --
AGENT CARUANA: You spent $9 million in Africa to
dredge and dig and all this other stuff?
MR. TORJAGBO: No. It's not $9 million I spent.
It's just you get --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: -- you get the tax credit for -- what
you call it -- you know, there's a -- a set amount that you
get back for the money you spent in dredging. And it doesn't
have to be in the United States because most oil companies are
offshore.
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AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: And they are not -- you know, the
company -- the office is here but the actual dredging and
stuff takes place offshore and most of them are outside of the
United States.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: So that's why you qualify for that tax
credit.
AGENT CARUANA: Did you prepare your tax return?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yes. I've been preparing my tax
return since I was -- what you call it -- since -- what you
call it -- college.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Did you send federal tax
withholding money to the IRS at all ever? Well, within the
last couple years? Did you ever -- did you have tax
withholding, federal tax withholding from your paychecks or
did you send federal tax withholding to the IRS?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, for my -- yeah, from my
paychecks, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: You did?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, because --
AGENT CARUANA: About how much?
MR. TORJAGBO: Honestly, I don't know because like --
AGENT CARUANA: 3 million?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, because --
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AGENT CARUANA: Not 3 million?
MR. TORJAGBO: Honestly, I don't know.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: But what I was trying to say is like
from my paychecks like when I was a pilot and when I'm flying
and stuff like that when I filed for taxes some of the time or
most of the time because it's foreign income --
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah, because that stuff was
legitimate. I mean, the taxes you said you had withheld from
Kremkov was a bunch of bullshit. You never submitted that
money to the IRS to be able to get it back.
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no. Like I'm saying, that is tax
credit based on dredging.
AGENT CARUANA: That's -- that's not a tax credit,
no. I mean -- and you can try to make that argument, too.
It's not going to win, okay?
And what you're going to end up doing is shooting
yourself in the foot because the benefit that -- the
cooperation that you are doing, it's going to be negated by
all the bullshit you're telling us, okay, which you don't want
to do that. So think about that, all right? Okay? All
right.
MR. TORJAGBO: Like I said, I'm not telling you
bullshit, I'm just trying to answer your questions to the --
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
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MR. TORJAGBO: -- best of my ability, you know.
AGENT CARUANA: All right. Do you have anything
else?
Okay. Do you have any questions for us?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: No. Okay. What's going to happen is
you're going to be transported down to the federal building.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Downtown Atlanta.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: And you're going to be turned over to
the US Marshals.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: And you'll have an initial hearing
today.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay? And then -- and then if you
have an attorney --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- you'll be given an opportunity to
contact that person. Do you have an attorney?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: No? So if you don't have an
attorney, one will be appointed for you today.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
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AGENT CARUANA: Okay?
While you're in the lockup today, you're going to
have a number of different people come in to talk to you.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay? They're going to try to get
information about your history, your family, your ties to
the -- you know, to this area, your financial situation. It
behooves you to be completely honest with them because that's
going to be provided to the judge and that's going to help the
judge make some decisions, okay? All right? Does that make
sense?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So with that, unless you have any
questions for us, we're going to be done. Okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay. Will I be able to bail out?
AGENT CARUANA: I don't know.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: I don't know. Okay?
Do you have -- do you have a passport at all?
MR. TORJAGBO: My passport, when I broke up with my
ex, she stole it, so I applied to the IRS to get my
citizenship back so I could get my passport.
AGENT CARUANA: You applied to the IRS or to the --
MR. TORJAGBO: To the -- to the -- DHS, yeah, to get
my passport back. So they are still processing my -- my --
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT - OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT
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what you call it -- my citizenship certificate in order for me
to get that back, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Do you have any passports from
any other countries?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, no.
AGENT CARUANA: Nothing?
MR. TORJAGBO: No, no, no, no.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. All right. Any other
questions?
MR. TORJAGBO: No.
AGENT CARUANA: All right. With that, we're going to
conclude the interview of Carl Torjagbo at 10:38 AM.
(Part 1 of the interview of Carl Torjagbo concluded)
(Part 2 of the interview of Carl Torjagbo)
AGENT CARUANA: Continuation of discussion with Carl
Torjagbo.
MR. TORJAGBO: You could just come to my house and
arrested me. Why did you have to come with guns and --
AGENT CARUANA: We don't know who you are. We've got
to be protective of our safety. People hate law enforcement
these days.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, I know, but you could have still
knocked on my door and asked me to come out and, you know,
just, you know, tell me, hey, you're under arrest for this and
this and this, and I would have complied.
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AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: You know.
AGENT CARUANA: Well, we don't know that, you know.
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah, but you have to have the M16s
and AR-15s and the --
AGENT CARUANA: Well -- so this is --
MR. TORJAGBO: I just think it was a little bit
dramatic. It actually scared me, you know. I was like, who?
You know, I was actually thinking -- because the last two
times there was cop cars here and was like stolen -- they were
looking for stolen trucks. So when I saw you guys, I thought
it was that. So when I had guns drawn on me, I was, what did
I do?
AGENT CARUANA: Well, again, we don't know who you
are. And there's a lot of people that don't like us. And
we're going home at the end of the day. Okay. And thankfully
you complied and nothing happened.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. And I wish that would happen
all the time.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: Because that would alleviate
problems, right?
MR. TORJAGBO: Yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: So we go in to protect ourselves and
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to protect you, okay?
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh (affirmative).
AGENT CARUANA: Because we don't know what people are
going to do. And we try to make sure we go the best route,
okay? We'll leave it at that, all right?
So this is the consent to search the house. It's for
your 5114 Greythorne Lane. We're going to -- you give us
permission to use the garage door opener on your key fob --
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: -- to get in the garage to take that
BMW.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: So you're -- you can refuse. You
give us your permission voluntarily. And we're going to take
any items that we determine to be related to the
investigation, which is going to be that BMW.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay. So I was going to ask, if I can
prove to you that the money for my personal items, which is my
Range Rover, my house, you know, and -- what you call it --
the -- you know, the BMW and stuff like that came from my
personal income, not from PPP money, would I get those back?
AGENT CARUANA: There's a process for that.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: Yeah. I can't give you any legal
advice --
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MR. TORJAGBO: Legal advice, yeah.
AGENT CARUANA: But there's a process for that.
MR. TORJAGBO: Because honestly, you know, all the
money for the house and the stuff came from me. The only
thing I did as far as PPP is concerned is rechanneled what I
had into the transportation with the intent to pay it back
when the loan matures.
AGENT CARUANA: Okay.
MR. TORJAGBO: And, you know, it's not, you know...
AGENT CARUANA: Okay. Here. You can sign right
there. And I'm going to sign as a witness.
MR. TORJAGBO: Okay.
AGENT CARUANA: Actually, maybe that's -- I need you
to sign here too. (Unintelligible). Actually, this is when
we actually take the car I think.
MR. TORJAGBO: Uh-huh.
AGENT CARUANA: With that, we're going to conclude
the interview. It's now 10:44 AM.
(Interview concluded at 10:44 AM.)
- - - - -
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C E R T I F I C A T E
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA
I do hereby certify that the foregoing pages are a true
and correct transcript of the interview taken down by
electronic recording and transcribed by me to the best of my
ability.
This the 20th Day of November, 2024.
________________________________
PENNY PRITTY COUDRIET, RMR, CRR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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